The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/keren.daniel/1997/keren.0197


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  1 09:31:36 PST 1997
Article: 90359 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: What Do You Know, 'rblackmore' Lies Again (Re: Jewish m
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5a8fsp$3ct@juliana.sprynet.com> <5a9h8i$5v5@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 05:52:30 GMT
Lines: 28

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Like Baer, former Commandamt of Auschwitz, who, by the
# way, also disclaimed the gas chamber story.

As I said yesterday, in my reply to Kreiberg, "rblackmore"
lies in practically every article he posts. Baer never
denied the fact that there were gas chambers in Auschwitz-
Birkenau:

In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority".

Remember, Baer arrived at Camp I only at 1944; by that time,
there was indeed no gassing in Krema I in that camp - that
took place only in 1941-2, before the much bigger gas chambers
in Birkenau were built.

For the life of me, I can't understand why "rblackmore" lies
so much.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  1 14:01:48 PST 1997
Article: 90411 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What Do You Know, 'rblackmore' Lies Again (Re: Jewish m
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5acjpp$cdt@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 20:49:21 GMT
Lines: 20

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# You are the liar. Baer said there were no gas chambers

No. Learn to read:

In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority".

He didn't say there were no gas chambers.

And you are a liar.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  1 14:01:49 PST 1997
Article: 90414 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5abspo$hlr@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 21:28:38 GMT
Lines: 11

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick; "The Belsen Trial", p. 713.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  1 20:35:35 PST 1997
Article: 90486 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Shhh! Don't mention it
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32e5f48b.4401250@199.0.216.204>  <32cb255c.165873@199.0.216.204>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 19:23:50 GMT
Lines: 42

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# When they use HCN for purposes of execution it is not in
# the form of pellets.

It doesn't matter. The Zyklon-B pellets release the same
gas that is used to execute condemned criminals in gas
chambers in some US prisons. It doesn't matter what the
source of the gas is. It will kill anyway.

What's so difficult to understand?

# To suggest it was cheaper and more readily available
# than carbon monoxide is ridiculously naive, or corrupt. Of
# course you didn't say "carbon monoxide" but we know this is
# the alternative.

It was used in other camps. Hoess decided to use Zyklon-B instead,
and, in his memoirs, he explains why. Perhaps you should try
reading them?

# We could theorize that the carbon monoxide gotten simply from
# the exhaust of running engines would be 10 times, 20 times
# cheaper than Zyklon B

On what do you base this calculation?

# which was the result of a number of manufacturing steps, some
# of them requiring safety precautions, then packaging in cans and
# then cartons, then shippment.

But all this was already being done. The Zyklon was already being
manufactured.

The other "difficulties" you mention for the use of Zyklon-B
are ridiculous, because the trained personnel and all the other
necessary equipment (gas masks, etc) were already there, because
it was used for fumigation.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:31 PST 1997
Article: 90495 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Challenge To Matt Giwer (Re: Beastly poor math skills)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5a4abu$20u@access1.digex.net>  <32c60efd.49450790@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 07:08:53 GMT
Lines: 32

at@dot.dot (The First One) writes:

[My original article deleted]

# At least three times you promised to the total number of
# inmates in the ten thousand camps and you have failed to
# do so.  Why?

I never promised this. I said that I don't know the total
number. I also told you to do your own research.

Now, my article quoted a computation made by a fellow
"revisionist" of yours. He tried to compute a certain
probability, which he claims is relevant to the history
of the Holocaust. I asked you if his result was correct.
You are obviously afraid to answer, hence your silly and
cowardly attempt to divert the discussion.

Matt, it's high-school math. You claim to be a genius,
with an IQ of 163. Can you handle it or not?

Do you realize what a joke you will be if you fail to
directly respond to my question? Well, you're a joke
already, but this is really too much... someone who
claims to have an IQ of 163, and yet can't handle a
simple piece of high-school math!

Go ahead. I am waiting for your answer.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:32 PST 1997
Article: 90498 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d4f311.4023256@199.0.216.204>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:26:57 GMT
Lines: 31

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The Holocaust story is one that is mostly supported by
# "eyewitness" accounts of what they saw.

As noted here, many times, the physical evidence to the
Holocaust includes:

 - Many documents and photographs.

 - Huge numbers of corpses and human remains in some of the camps.

 - Some of the gas chambers, with cyanide traces on their walls.

 - Some of the mass graves, discovered after the war.

Thus, there is far greater physical evidence for the Holocaust
than for:

 - The bombing of Dresden.

 - The death of German civilians after the war.

 - Stalin's atrocities.

It's very simple. It should be clear to any rational person. But
"Holocaust revisionists" are not rational people.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:33 PST 1997
Article: 90503 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d9f35d.4099052@199.0.216.204>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:39:43 GMT
Lines: 39

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Even though modern day cremation facilities take two
# and half hours to cremate one body,

EXACTLY what I was talking about in my reply to Kreiberg.

Moran was referred, many times, to the cremation site
web page. He knows that it says that some furnaces can
cremate a corpse in less than an hour. He knows that
it says that continuous cremation reduces the required
time by a factor of two.

But he continues lying, and lying, and lying. He posted this
lie about the 2.5 hours numerous times. Every time, his
lie was exposed. He doesn't care.

# the cremation ovens at Auschwitz, barely the size of
#a regrigerator, could cremate up to three bodies in twenty
# minutes, as the Holocaust story has it.

The official SS-estimates gave 45 minutes for 3 corpses.
Not very surprising, as there were many infants and
children among the victims. Also, as noted, continuous
cremation save a great deal of time. In ordinary cremation,
one will never put more than one corpse in one muffle,
out of respect for the dead; there were no such
considerations in Birkenau.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

furnace-capacity.jpg
Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:34 PST 1997
Article: 90504 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Shhh! Don't mention it
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32e5f48b.4401250@199.0.216.204>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 17:44:29 GMT
Lines: 21

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# How many people would think that the main gas said to
# have been used for extermination, the gas that is at
# the center of the Auschwitz story, was, in Holocaust
# reality, pellets made for fumigation purposes.

The pellets, however, release HCN, the same gas used
to this day to execute condemned criminals in some
US prisons.

A rather logical choice to use for mass murder, more
so since it was available in large quantities and
very cheap.

So what's your point?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:35 PST 1997
Article: 90508 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Strange Holocaust "gas" properties
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32e4f474.4378456@199.0.216.204>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:33:57 GMT
Lines: 22

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Of course as far as the general person on the street knows
# about the Holocasut story, the "gas" factor is the number
# one, if not the only thing they know about the Holocaust
# story.
#
# Yet how many would know that this gas can be picked up,
# scattered around, poured and could rattle in cans?

Moran, for God's sake. The SS used Zyklon-B, a solid
carrier for the HCN gas. It was invented long before
the Holocaust. No "revisionist" is crazy enough to
claim Zyklon never existed. I have posted a few
pages from Dr. Peters' book about Zyklon.

Is this what Faurisson meant when he said that "revisionism"
is the "great intellectual adventure of the century"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:35 PST 1997
Article: 90529 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from DACHAU Camp (Re: Dachau)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <851818042.19397@dejanews.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:57:58 GMT
Lines: 20

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images

dachau01.jpg
Corpses of the inmates.

dachau02.jpg, dachau03.jpg:
Mass graves of murdered inmates near Dachau.

dachau04.jpg
Letter about conducting medical experiments in Dachau.

MedExp02.jpg
An inmate subjected to low-pressure experiment in Dachau.

MedExp04.jpg
An inmate subjected to freezing experiment in Dachau.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  2 05:45:36 PST 1997
Article: 90540 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Letter About The Holocaust by Ken Blewitt
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5aca1f$4gh@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 20:57:49 GMT
Lines: 18

kblewitt@ix.netcom.com(Kenneth T. Blewitt) writes:

# Keren, I don't know what you could think I was lying about.

You claimed that Dr. Broszat said that there were no
homicidal gas chambers in the "Old Reich" (Germany
proper). He didn't say that. That makes you a liar IMHO.

Or, maybe you wish to claim you only QUOTED a liar
(the one who wrote the "revisionist" material you posted)?

I have to point out these things, as one of the main
ingredients of "Holocaust revisionism" is an enormous
collection of such lies.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:48 PST 1997
Article: 90711 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What Do You Know, 'rblackmore' Lies Again (Re: Jewish m
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5afvou$rdm@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:07:24 GMT
Lines: 10

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# COMMENT:  No, I am not a liar.  Then, it would take one to
# know one. Baer retracted his statement before his death.

Yawn... prove that he retracted his statement before his death.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:49 PST 1997
Article: 90712 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: SS-Obersturmfuehrer FRANZ HOESSLER in Belsen Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:52:08 GMT
Lines: 9

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/
Hoessler.jpg

SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler appears to be quite cheerful 
as he poses in front of a truckload of corpses in Belsen camp.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:50 PST 1997
Article: 90718 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Treblinka, for comparison - trebwit.gif (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32cb3efd.17232389@mail.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:09:46 GMT
Lines: 7

Ok. So you scanned this drawing and posted it. Now, can
you please tell us how this drawing is supposed to help
the "revisionist" cause? This is totally unclear.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:51 PST 1997
Article: 90727 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Friedrich Engels on "The Joys of Yiddish"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5ag7nc$2r@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:35:59 GMT
Lines: 39

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Karl Marx's benefactor, Friedrich Engels, in replying to an
# argument made in the Frankfurt Parliament by Adolf Stenzel, 
# who claimed that Jews were german because they spoke the
# German language, remarked:
#
# "...these peddler Jews, their lice, and their dirt, can be
# forgotten because they want to be Germans [...].

If genuine, this quote, and others posted by "rblackmore", indeed
prove that this revolting type of racial hatred had penetrated
German society long before the Holocaust took place. Therefore,
these quotes, (if genuine), only serve to harm lame-brained Nazis
such as Mr. "rblackmore", who seek to deny the Holocaust.

Similarly, "rblackmore" proved himself to be not only a pathological
liar [*], but also to be a revolting antisemite himself; see his
antisemitic "poem" sent to a neo-Nazi mailing list, and his posting
of articles with titles such as "For the benefit of Mr. Kike".


-Danny Keren.

[*] - among the numerous lies posted to this newsgroup by "rblackmore",
      one of the most outstanding ones is his claim, made in the
      article with Message-Id:<54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>. 
      "rblackmore" is trying to "prove" that the "SS punished 
      camp commandants who killed Jews":

      # Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth, Koch, and
      # other camp commanders who abused the prisoners under their
      # charge.

      unfortunately for "rblackmore", Goeth was not executed by the
      SS, but was tried and executed by the Poles after the war. Koch
      was tried and executed by the SS for theft and for murdering
      two non-Jewish inmates.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:52 PST 1997
Article: 90728 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32ccca7b.4219504@news.inetport.com> <5agbs1$2r@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:00:45 GMT
Lines: 16

rblackmore@juno.com  writes:

# well, I accept for the most part the testimony of an Austrian
# woman, (non-Jewish) who was in Auschwitz and gave testimony at
# the Frankfurt Trial.  Her testimony is in the Naumann book.  
# i do not recall her name, but she should be easy to locate

Dr. Ela Lingens-Reiner? Her testimony sure doesn't help
any lame-brained Nazi "revisionist" such as yourself. BTW,
you should try to do something about that senility. You're
"forgetting" too many things, and making too many "mistakes"
recently.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:53 PST 1997
Article: 90729 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Playing for Irma Grese--Fania Fenelon
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5aimbm$opu@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:34:39 GMT
Lines: 11

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick (from "The Belsen Trial").


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:54 PST 1997
Article: 90730 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Where is Ernst Zundel's stie?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:47:44 GMT
Lines: 28

ral007@omni.voicenet.com (Polattolah) writes:

# Anybody have Ernst's [Zundel] web address?

You should look at

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers/

For an excellent documentation of Zundel's "theories" about the
so-called "German UFO's" which, he claims, were used by some
leading Nazis to flee the collapsing Reich and hide in the
center of the earth.

You will see there fliers written by Zundel himself, in which
he claims to have met "German scientists" who built the UFO's,
and a photo allegedly taken inside a "German UFO control
bunker"! There is no doubt that Zundel is totally insane,
or a compulsive liar, or both.

When trying to defend their hero, Zundel's supporters claim
that "he only did this [the UFO stuff] for publicity". Quite an
odd statement. Are they saying he told all these insane in
order to become well-known? If so, what does that tell us
about him?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 07:41:55 PST 1997
Article: 90734 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Why is "Holocaust Denial" a bad thing?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <19970101232800.SAA25052@ladder01.news.aol.com> <5ags45$ht4@access5.digex.net> <32cc0f9d.68249695@news.gte.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:13:24 GMT
Lines: 40

kavaliers@hong.kong (Sammy Li) writes:

[Regarding Nazis who testified about the Holocaust]

# For example, their families were arrested.  It does
# not take a mental giant to get the hint.  It is clear
# coersion even if there were no grounds for the way they
# were treated.

Can you kindly tell us *exactly* who was arrested, and if
anything at all happened to them?

Take Kramer's wife. She testified on his behalf in the
Belsen trial. Kramer was commandant of Birkenau and Belsen - a
rather major Nazi war criminal. And his wife testified for
him. What does this tell us about your claim?

Can you kindly address the fact that the large majority
of former SS-men, who testified about what took place
in the death camps, were tried by the German legal
system? Can you specify one case in which the family of
any of these people was intimidated in any way?

Or are we to assume that you're insane? That seems to be 
the most probable assumption, considering what you posted
here in the past... see below. BTW Matt, really cool
alias, this "kavaliers@hong.kong (Sammy Li)". Sure explains
your "163 IQ points" which you boast of. 


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, "leading
revisionist" Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas
chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums don't
prove anything, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of 
humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan  3 09:37:01 PST 1997
Article: 90764 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Martin Luther on the Jews
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5ag3te$2r@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:54:45 GMT
Lines: 30

If genuine, this quote, and others posted by "rblackmore", indeed
prove that this revolting type of racial hatred had penetrated
German society long before the Holocaust took place. Therefore,
these quotes, (if genuine), only serve to harm lame-brained Nazis
such as Mr. "rblackmore", who seek to deny the Holocaust.

Similarly, "rblackmore" proved himself to be not only a pathological
liar [*], but also to be a revolting antisemite himself; see his
antisemitic "poem" sent to a neo-Nazi mailing list, and his posting
of articles with titles such as "For the benefit of Mr. Kike".


-Danny Keren.

[*] - among the numerous lies posted to this newsgroup by "rblackmore",
      one of the most outstanding ones is his claim, made in the
      article with Message-Id:<54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>. 
      "rblackmore" is trying to "prove" that the "SS punished 
      camp commandants who killed Jews":

      # Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth, Koch, and
      # other camp commanders who abused the prisoners under their
      # charge.

      unfortunately for "rblackmore", Goeth was not executed by the
      SS, but was tried and executed by the Poles after the war. Koch
      was tried and executed by the SS for theft and for murdering
      two non-Jewish inmates.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan  4 10:53:30 PST 1997
Article: 90969 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Why is "Holocaust Denial" a bad thing?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32cc0f9d.68249695@news.gte.net>  <32cd453f.146905700@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:40:55 GMT
Lines: 25

kavaliers@hong.kong (Sammy Li) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Can you kindly tell us *exactly* who was arrested, and if
## anything at all happened to them?

# Their families of course.

Sigh. Can you tell us WHOSE families were "arrested"? Why
can't you understand a simple question? Are you suggesting
the Allies "arrested" most of the families of those Nazis
tried after the war? 50 percent? 10 percent? 1 percent? Less?

How come Kramer's wife testified on his behalf?

Since you deleted the bulk of my article, I ask again: what
about the former SS-men, tried by the German legal system?
They gave the majority of testimonies about the death camps.

I am asking you yet again: was the family of any of them
"arrested"? Yes or no?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan  4 12:39:49 PST 1997
Article: 90973 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Typical Nature of Holocaust Accounts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d52e03.4424318@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:54:16 GMT
Lines: 25

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The "extermination" camp Treblinka was still in
# operation when the Russians took over.

[Sachar, Abram L. The Redemption of the Unwanted.
 New York: St. Martin's/Marek, 1983]

As noted, this is indeed an error. Sachar probably
confused Treblinka with a different camp. Have you
tried to contact him and ask?

People *do* make mistakes. Matt Giwer, the "leading
revisionist scholar" on this group, claimed that Belsen
camp was in Poland, while it was in Germany. I believe
that this was indeed an error, and not an intentional
lie, on his part.

BTW, what about your posting of a testimony which does
not exist? Oh, you're going to tell me again that you
don't know what I'm talking about?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan  4 12:39:50 PST 1997
Article: 90982 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Freddy, the 'Engineer' (Re: HOLOCAUST FAQ: The "Leuchte
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32ce4e0e.0@cheech.primary.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:17:19 GMT
Lines: 58

This is a verbatim quote from the cross-examination of Fred 
Leuchter, "revisionist scholar, engineer and scientist":

[Pages 9196-9198 of the transcript in Zundel's trial. 
Cross-examination conducted by Mr. Pearson]:


Q: Now, Mr. Leuchter, Mr. Christie, when he was reviewing your
   qualifications, said that, if my note is correct, you graduated
   from from university in a field that entitles you to function as
   as engineer and you responded in the affirmative to that question?

A: Yes. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree.

Q: You graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree?

A: Right.

Q: When?

A: You mean what year?

Q: What year?

A: 1964.

Q: 1964. And that's the only University degree you have?

A: That's correct.

Q: You don't have a Bachelor of Science degree?

A: No.

Q: You don't have a Master of Science degree; you don't have a 
   Ph.D in science?

A: Correct.

Q: You don't have a degree in engineering?

A: That's correct.

Q: Do you belong to any supervising disciplinary professional body?

A: I don't understand the question, counselor.

Q: Well, do you belong to a governing body of engineers?

A: I -- governing body? I do not understand. Are you saying do I
   belong to any scientific societies?

Q: No, is there any body of engineers that supervises you and
   disciplines you in your engineering function?

A: No. 




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan  4 20:03:47 PST 1997
Article: 91026 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!visi.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Ohlendorf Testifies About Nazi Mass Murder in Occupied USSR
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:58:04 GMT
Lines: 166

Otto Ohlendorf, chief of Einsatzgruppe D, testifies about Nazi
mass murder in the occupied USSR. Source: IMT Vol. IV, testimony
starts at page 311.


Q. How many Einsatz groups were there, and who were their respective
   leaders?

A. There were four Einsatzgruppen, Group A,B,C and D. Chief of
   Einsatzgruppe A was Stahlecker; Chief of Einsatzgruppe B was
   Nebe; Chief of Einsatzgruppe C, Dr. Rasche, and later, Dr.
   Thomas; Chief of Einsatzgruppe D, I myself, and later Bierkamp.

 .
 .
 .

Q. What were their instructions with respect to the Jews and the
   Communist functionaries?

A. The instructions were that in the Russian operational areas of
   the Einsatzgruppen the Jews, as well as the Soviet political
   commissars, were to be liquidated.

Q. And when you say "liquidated", do you mean "killed"?

A. Yes, I mean killed.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Did you personally supervise mass executions of these
   individuals?

A. I was present at two mass executions for purposes of inspection.

Q. Will you explain to the tribunal in detail how an individual
   mass execution was carried out?

A. A local Einsatzkommando attempted to collect all the Jews in its 
   area by registering them. This registration was performed by the
   Jews themselves.

Q. On what pretext, if any, were they rounded up?

A. On the pretext that they were to be resettled.

Q. Will you continue?

A. After the registration the Jews were collected at one place;
   and from there they were later transported to the place of
   execution, which was, as a rule an antitank ditch or a natural
   excavation. The executions were carried out in a military manner,
   by firing squads under command.

Q. In what way were they transported to the place of execution?

A. They were transported to the place of execution in trucks, always
   only as many as could be executed immediately. In this way it was
   attempted to keep the span of time from the moment in which the
   victims knew what was about to happen to them until the time of
   their actual execution as short as possible.

Q. Was that your idea?

A. Yes.

Q. And after they were shot what was done with the bodies?

A. The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Were all victims, including the men, women, and children,
   executed in the same manner?

A. Until the spring of 1942, yes. Then an order came from Himmler
   that in the future women and children were to be killed only
   in gas vans.

Q. How had women and children been killed previously?

A. In the same way as the men - by shooting.

Q. What, if anything, was done about burying the victims after they
   had been executed?

A. The Kommandos filled the graves to efface the signs of execution,
   and then labor unit of the population leveled them.

Q. Referring to the gas vans which you said you received in the
   spring of 1942, what order did you receive with respect to the
   use of these vans?

A. These gas vans were in future to be used for the killing of the
   women and the children.

Q. Will you explain to the Tribunal the construction of these vans
   and their appearance?

A. The actual purpose of these vans could not be seen from the
   outside. They looked like closed trucks, and were so constructed
   that at the start of the motor, gas was conducted into the van
   causing death in 10 to 15 minutes.

Q. Explain in detail just how one of these vans was used for an
   execution.

A. The vans were loaded with the victims and driven to the place of
   burial, which was usually the same as that used for the mass
   executions. The time needed for transportation was sufficient
   to insure the death of the victims.

Q. How were the victims induced to enter the van?

A. They were told that they were to be transported to another 
   locality.

 .
 .
 .

Q. You said that mostly women and children were executed in these
   vans. For what reason?

A. That was a special order from Himmler to the effect that women
   and children were not to be exposed to the mental strain of the
   executions; and thus the men of the Kommandos, mostly married
   men, should not be compelled to aim at women and children.

 .
 .
 .

Q. In your testimony you said that the Einsatz group had the object
   of annihilating the Jews and the commissars, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And in what category did you consider the children? For what
   reason were the children massacred?

A. The order was that the Jewish population should be totally 
   exterminated.

Q. Including the children?

A. Yes.

Q. Were all the Jewish children murdered?

A. Yes.




 

 






From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan  4 20:03:48 PST 1997
Article: 91027 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.emi.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Ohlendorf Next Explains Why the Gypsies Were Murdered
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 17:59:14 GMT
Lines: 50

SS-Gruppenfuehrer Otto Ohlendorf, Commander of Einsatzgruppe D,
comes up with some amazing excuses for the killing of the Gypsies
in Nazi-occupied USSR. 

[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" -  Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol IV, 
p. 286-7]

Presiding Judge Musmanno: Well, now, what we are trying to do is
to find out what you are going to say about the Gypsies, but
you still insist on going back to the Jews, and Mr. Heath is 
questioning about Gypsies. Is it also in European history that
Gypsies always participated in political strategy and campaigns?

Ohlendorf: Espionage organizations during campaigns.

Presiding Judge Musmanno: The Gypsies did?

A: The Gypsies in particular. I want to draw your recollection 
to extensive descriptions of the Thirty Year War by Ricarda Huch 
and Schiller-

Q. That is going pretty far back in order to justify the killing
of Gypsies in 1941, isn't it?

A. I added that as an explanation, as such motives might have 
played a part in this, to get at this decision.

 .
 .
 .

Mr. Heath: Mr. Ohlendorf, you say the Gypsies are notorious
bearers of intelligence? Isn't it a fact that the nationals of
any invaded state are notorious bearers of intelligence. Didn't
the Americans bear intelligence, and the Germans bear intelligence,
and the Russians bear intelligence for their countries when they
were at war?

A. But the difference is here that these populations, for example,
the German population, or the American population have permanent
homes, whereas Gypsies being unsettled as people without 
permanent homes are more prepared to change their residence
for a more favorable economic situation, which another place
might promise them. I believe that a German, for example, is
very unsuited for espionage.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 02:02:40 PST 1997
Article: 93516 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.nl.innet.net!INnl.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: More Holocaust Lies
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32cb29d9.174179993@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:23:40 GMT
Lines: 35

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) repeats old "revisionist" rubbish:

# By examining the "eyewitness" testimony, and analyzing the
# engineering data with respect to Diesel combustion engines,
# researchers soon debunked the Diesel deaths as dramatic droll.

Yet again...

Two key points:

1) A scientific paper proves that it is very easy to tune a diesel
   so that its exhaust contains hardly any oxygen, and up to 6
   percent CO. This is much higher than the lethal concentration.

("The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105).

2) Another scientific paper proves that when animals were exposed
   to the exhaust of a tiny diesel engine (6 BHP) in a closed
   chamber, they died.

("The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under Four Different
Running Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial
Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p.  47-55).

All this proves, very clearly, that the "revisionist" claims about
"difficulties" (or the impossibility of) killing people with diesel
exhaust, are totally and completely worthless.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 02:02:41 PST 1997
Article: 93527 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: German Scientologists ousted)
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199612200104.RAA14620@mailmasher.com> <5alp80$94k@ultra.ultra.net.au> <-AjpoOev1KxT065yn@login.dknet.dk>
Distribution: inet
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:25:09 GMT
Lines: 105
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:224088 comp.org.eff.talk:72921 soc.culture.german:93527

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) peddles the same tired old
"Holocaust revisionism" rubbish:

# Listen wise guy, most of the Jews are supposed to have
# been killed in gaschambers in 5 concentration camps in Poland.

Not entirely accurate; about 2.7 million were murdered in the
five largest death camps, the rest by the "Einsatzgruppen", in
the ghettos, and in numerous smaller camps.

# In the biggest, Auschwitz, 12000 are supposed to have been killed
# per day in two small gas chambers

On the average, it was much less than 12,000 per day. Divide 1.3
million over 5 years; it's not 12,000 per day.

Re the "two small gas chambers", it's simply amazing how someone
like you, who claims to have some knowledge about the Holocaust,
can't get even this fact correct. There was the gas chamber in
the main camp, the two so-called "bunkers", and the rather large
gas chambers of the four Kremas, II,III,IV and V, in Birkenau.

# and cremated in 46 crematorium ovens.

You actually got this one right.

# Although it takes at least 75 minutes to cremate a corpse in
# a modern oven

A lie; it can be done faster in some furnaces. Look in the cremation
site web page. If you don't have to collect the ashes separately, and
only want to burn the corpses as quickly as possible, it can be done
rather quickly. Moreover, as you will also learn if you look at the
cremation site web page, you'll see that continuous cremation reduces
the time by a factor of 2, as there is no need to bring the furnace
to a high temperature before each cremation.

# these Germans were able to do so in less than 6 minutes. Do you
# believe in that?

The official estimates of the SS give a longer time. Anyway, you're
misleading, by ignoring the fact that more than one corpse was burned
in a single muffle. This is not normal cremation process; no one would
do it during standard, commercial cremation, out of respect for the
dead. However, it was done in Auschwitz-Birkenau. It was easier to
do it because there were many infants and children among the victims.

Some relevant documents/photographs:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

furnace-capacity.jpg
Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.

Vergasungskeller.jpg
Document mentioning the "gassing cellar" in Krema II in
Birkenau.

Gas_Detector.jpg
Letter asking to deliver detectors for cyanide gas to
crematorium in Birkenau.

Krema4.jpg
Crematorium no. 4 in Birkenau.

krema5-01.jpg
Crematorium no. 5 in Birkenau

Gaskammern.jpg
Construction document which mentions a "gas chamber"
(Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5 in Birkenau.

Furnace.jpg
Cremation furnaces in a Birknenau crematorium.

# For further information on the holocaust revisionism:
# http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

It's hardly a surprise that Kreiberg hails Greg Raven, the
American "revisionist", who wrote in the past:



And Kreiberg tells us he doesn't like Nazis.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 02:18:02 PST 1997
Article: 91059 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!sn.no!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32ced522.5150921@199.0.216.204> <32db46ec.10801111@199.0.216.204>  <32cf0f95.9558158@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 08:04:55 GMT
Lines: 20

hilfen@sie.mir (Doc Marten) writes:

# Your holohugging buddies all came down on you explaining
# to you it was only one room inside that building the last
# time I got you to post a calculation.

Yes, it was a room inside a building. And that room, before
it was partitioned, was 7 X 30 X 2 meters.

# Do you really pretend to forget so soon?

Are you really so stupid?

# You folks are the same as the day Adolph pegged you.

Grow up, punk.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:34 PST 1997
Article: 91079 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32CC422D.23E7@phoenix.net> <5aju78$od6@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:41:00 GMT
Lines: 14

This is what Grese REALLY said:



Q. At Belsen, have you ever struck a prisoner at all?

A. Yes, but only with my hand. The condition of the prisoners
   was so bad that one had almost a horror of them.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:35 PST 1997
Article: 91093 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32CC422D.23E7@phoenix.net> <5aju78$od6@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:44:01 GMT
Lines: 11

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick; "The Belsen Trial", p. 713.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:35 PST 1997
Article: 91109 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <19970105105800.FAA19065@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:25:24 GMT
Lines: 44

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

## Lastly, CO is not the only factor in causing death; lack
## of oxygen in the exhaust is another one, and so are other
## poisonous gases present in the exhaust, such as NO2.
##
## -Danny Keren.

# Lack of oxygen in diesel exhaust???

Yes, lack of oxygen in diesel exhaust. I will post the
figures from the Holtz-Elliot ASME paper tomorrow (I don't
have it at home). Then, we'll see what a smart fellow you are.

Greping through some of my earlier responses on this thread,
I found the following:

 "The same graph and table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show
he's [Giwer] totally wrong about this too. In high fuel-air
ratios, there is practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in
lower ratios (say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of
oxygen in the exhaust".

3.4 percent. You're claiming a person can survive with such
a ratio of oxygen?

I'll post more figures tomorrow.

# Daniel, you know as much about engines as you do about other
# technical matters you attempt to address.

Let's see the figures from the Holtz-Elliot paper.

# The limit approaches zero.

Let's see the figures from the Holtz-Elliot paper.

# Jeez, get a clue guy.

Jeez... learn to read, guy.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:36 PST 1997
Article: 91121 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Blackmore's obtuse Postings
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32CEBDBE.227A@ibm.net> <5anpsd$2so@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 13:37:16 GMT
Lines: 28

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# I can only reply that your opinions have no basis in fact, IMO.
# I have read through the testimony at the Belsen trial and I must
# simply call a spade a spade.  Most of the accusers come off as
# liars, or exaggerators, at best.  The Germans appear to be giving
# truthful testimony.

So you accept the testimonies of Hoessler, Kramer, Dr. Klein etc
about the gas chambers? They were Germans, you know.

# As to the German torture allegations, I believe I have
# posted enough evidence in the past regarding this accusation,

You posted zero evidence that, for instance, one accused SS-men
or women who testified in the Belsen Trial was tortured. You
posted zero evidence that any of the numerous SS-men, who testified
in the trials held by the German legal system, was tortured or
mistreated in any way whatsoever.

Yet, every single one of these people gave a description of the
death camps which contradicts everything our insane "revisionists"
claim. But what did these SS-men know, after all? They only built
the camps and ran them, right?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:37 PST 1997
Article: 91132 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-hk.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!news.glink.net.hk!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Playing for Irma Grese--Fania Fenelon
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0645b.90322025@news.zilker.net> <5anv0b$2so@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:48:43 GMT
Lines: 11

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick; "The Belsen Trial", p. 713.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:38 PST 1997
Article: 91135 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199612200104.RAA14620@mailmasher.com> <5alp80$94k@ultra.ultra.net.au> <-AjpoOev1KxT065yn@login.dknet.dk> <32cf34ca.56554c43414e@vulcan.xs4all.nl>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:46:24 GMT
Lines: 28
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:91135 alt.religion.scientology:224221 comp.org.eff.talk:72930 soc.culture.german:93597

johanw@vulcan.xs4all.nl (Johan Wevers) writes:
# Ole Kreiberg  wrote:

## Although it takes at least 75 minutes to cremate a corpse
## in a modern oven these Germans were able to do so in less
## than 6 minutes. Do you believe in that?

# They probably burnt more than one corpse per "session". didn't
# you think of that, smart guy?

Mr. Wevers is right; more than one corpse was burned in one muffle.

For an estimate of the cremation capacity in Auschwitz-Birkenau,
as given by the SS, see

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
furnace-capacity.jpg

Letter from Jahrling to SS-General Kammler, stating that the
combined crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756
corpses in 24 working hours. This translates to about 16
minutes per corpse, not 6.

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:39 PST 1997
Article: 91137 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tezcat!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199612200104.RAA14620@mailmasher.com> <-AjpoOev1KxT065yn@login.dknet.dk> <32cf34ca.56554c43414e@vulcan.xs4all.nl> 
Distribution: inet
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:02:40 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:91137 alt.religion.scientology:224223 comp.org.eff.talk:72932 soc.culture.german:93599

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Hm. Have you ever seen those narrow ovens on display in
# e.g. the Auschwitz museum? How many corpses would they
# contain at a time?

"Narrow"? They are not that narrow. Moreover, many of the victims
were either very young or emaciated.

# Doesn't it take the longer time to cremate a large volume than
# a small volome?

How much time do you assume it takes? And please, don't start
again with your insane claims about the corpses "exploding inside
the cremation furnaces".

# Let me briefly comment Daniel Keren's allegation that there
# were supposed to be gassings in Auschwitz for 5 years.

I didn't make that allegation. I calculated the average number
of deaths per day, of all causes.

# The established historiography says that the gassings started in
# 1942 and stopped in 1944. Hardly 5 years.

The established historiography says that the gassings started in
1941, with the gassing of the Soviet POW's.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:39 PST 1997
Article: 91154 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Michael Kolnhofer
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32dfcd53.10380056@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:21:38 GMT
Lines: 21

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

## Does anyone have more information about Michael Kolnhofer,
## suspected of being a former member of the Waffen-SS, who
## reportedly shot at police and reporters in Kansas City?
##
##
## -Danny Keren.

# Just Mr.Keren's way of announcing the incident as if it should
# have some bearing on the validity of the Holocaust story.

Well, it's not exactly what our "revisionist scholars" needed
right now, I guess. Anyway, any news on the story?

BTW Moran, are you ever going to comment on the fact that
you posted a non-existing testimony about the Holocaust?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 11:42:40 PST 1997
Article: 91168 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer and His 163 IQ Points
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32c97612.13321015@news.gte.net>  <32cfd3a3.1359393@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 17:03:00 GMT
Lines: 39

hilfen@sie.mir (Doc Marten) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Matt, these silly evasions are really making you
## look stupid, terribly stupid. Believe me.
##
## Can you comment on the "probabilistic proof that the
## Holocaust is a hoax" that your "revisionist" friend
## posted?
##
## YES OR NO?

# Yes.  As anyone knowing anything about statistics
# knows, it can not be used to prove anything.

Sigh. Matt, Matt, you poor silly clown. You have still failed
to reply directly to my question. You have, yet again, proved
that you cannot handle high-school math.

This is the calculation your "revisionist" friend posted:

# In particular, the probability that five out of eleven
# observed statistics will be multiples of six is
#       1/6^(11/(11/5)) = 1 in 7,776.

Is it correct or not? YES OR NO?

Why do you claim you have an IQ of 163, when you can't handle
high-school math? Don't you realize what a joke you have made
out of yourself?

I'm asking you a very simple question. Is the calculation posted
by your "revisionist" friend correct, or is it not?

YES OR NO? Answer the question. Don't evade it.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 15:00:49 PST 1997
Article: 91184 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Babi Yar - ala Nora Levin
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32ddc3eb.7971649@199.0.216.204> <32deca3a.9586993@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:15:01 GMT
Lines: 16

Ereignismeldung UdSSR, No. 101, October 2 1941
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press,
NY, 1988, p. 67]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Einsatzgruppen C
Standort Kiev

In collaboration with the group staff and two Kommandos of Police
Regiment South, on 29 and 30 September 1941, Sonderkommando 4a
executed 33,771 Jews in Kiev.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan  5 15:00:50 PST 1997
Article: 91187 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32ced522.5150921@199.0.216.204> <32db46ec.10801111@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:34:56 GMT
Lines: 32

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Holocaust gas chambers were basically 12 X 12 X 7
# feet, about 1000 cubic feet,

The large ones in Birkenau (in Kremas II and III), which
are the ones we're talking about, were 30 X 7 X 2 meters,
that is, about 100 X 23 X 7 feet, or about 16,000 cubic feet.
Well, Moran, you've only erred by a factor of 16 this time.
You're still better than other "revisionist scholars", as
Giwer, Stele, etc.

The question is, how long would it take for the
exhaust of one single engine to fill this volume
with a high enough ratio of CO to kill? Now, I guess
it would have worked, eventually. I agree that, had
Hoess decided to use engine exhaust to kill the victims,
it would have, eventually, worked.

However, he decided not to use it. He decided to use a
different method. He visited Chelmno, and was told
that using engine exhaust often took a long time. He
heard the same in Treblinka. So he decided to stick with
using Zyklon-B, which had already proved itself to kill
rather quickly, in Auschwitz.

You're saying he was wrong? Heck, maybe he was wrong. But
that's what he decided to do. End of story.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 00:49:05 PST 1997
Article: 91286 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32d8ca7f.6995926@news.inetport.com> 
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:28:43 GMT
Lines: 13
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:91286 soc.culture.german:93640

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# It is all your points of view. Revisionists like Butz,
# Faurisson, Rudolph, Leuchter, Lueftl, Mattogno etc. had
# done a serious scientific work.

Can you give one example of "serious scientific work" any
of them has done, regarding the history of the Holocaust?
Just one. Thank you.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 02:18:22 PST 1997
Article: 91290 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Babi Yar, a week later - babiyar.jpg (0/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32cd4bc6.148576793@news.gte.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:09:35 GMT
Lines: 42

I looked at this photograph. It's of extremely poor
quality, BTW. I don't see what you can conclude from it.

# What is getting interesting is that not one of these
# images, of any of the sites of death camps or of famous
# massacres, shows any signs of what is supposed to happen.

What, exactly, would you expect these old, and extremely
low-quality aerial photographs, to show?

# If it were just Treblinka that showed no signs,

I have seen this photograph. I cannot see how it helps
the "revisionist" cause. It certainly doesn't prove
that mass murder didn't take place at the camp. Can you,
once and for all, explain how it is supposed to help the
"revisionist" cause?

Matt, we have conclusive proof that you cannot handle
high-school math. We have evidence, from other articles
you posted, that you cannot handle third-grade math. You
obviously know nothing at all about basic science and
technology. I can post the evidence for this claim, as
I have done in the past.

By looking at "argument" as yours quoted below, we also
realize that you have no capacity for rational thinking.

Are we supposed to believe you're an expert on aerial
photographs? Yes or no?


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, "leading
revisionist" Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas
chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums don't
prove anything, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of 
humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 06:52:11 PST 1997
Article: 91325 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Doc Sticks To His Guns
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199612310220.SAA29465@mailmasher.com> <32CF271B.58DD@nbnet.nb.ca> <32cf3db8.21368955@news.gte.net> <32CFC885.5176@nbnet.nb.ca>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 16:16:42 GMT
Lines: 15

Keith Morrison  writes:

## When was the last time you heard of anyone sitting in a
## tower sniping with anything?

# Charles Whitmore, University of Texas, 1962.  (I think, my
# books on mass murder and serial killers are at my parent;s
# place)

UTexas in Austin. I've been there a few years ago and saw
the tower (which is now closed as I recall).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 06:52:12 PST 1997
Article: 91389 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Himmler Reports His Work
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 21:13:40 GMT
Lines: 9

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images
report-51.jpg

Report from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 16:24:11 PST 1997
Article: 91445 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witnesses say "No Holocaust"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0694a.17353569@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 19:56:16 GMT
Lines: 50

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:

Your "witnesses" are irrelevant, as they were not in the
extermination complexes. Two were possibly in Birkenau, but
it was a rather large camp.

You're making a very silly error here. If this-and-that
didn't see the gas chambers, it doesn't prove they didn't
exist. Many people did not witness Dresden's bombing; this
doesn't prove it didn't happen.

What you have to explain, regarding the witnesses, is: how
come each and every SS-man who served in Treblinka, Belzec,
Sobibor etc stated that mass murder by poison gas took place
in these camps?

# Paul Rassinier was a political prisoner at Buchenwald
# and questioned the allegations of "gas chambers."

He is irrelevant. He was not in any of the camps in which
the mass gassing took place.

# Ginsburg denied the German Government ever
# contemplated the extermination of the Jews.

He is irrelevant as a witness, for the same reason.

# Thies Christopherson, author of the book, "The Auschwitz Lie",
# was at Auschwitz from January to December of 1944, says that
# gassings never took place.

Isn't this the former SS-man who was in Auschwitz III, and
never in Birkenau or Auschwitz I, where the gassing took place?

# Obviously this never happened to Maria as she lived to testify
# of her account in a Toronto District Court in March 1988!

Irrelevant. No one ever claimed that everyone deported to
Auschwitz was gassed. The majority, yes. Not everyone.

# After the war, she testified that nothing of the sort ever
# happened at Auschwitz-Birkenau while she was interned there.
# Maria said she only heard of the gassing tales later.

Where is her testimony? But, again, was she in the extermination
complex?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 16:24:12 PST 1997
Article: 91453 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!en.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Doc Sticks To His Guns
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199612310220.SAA29465@mailmasher.com> <32CFC885.5176@nbnet.nb.ca>  <32d06995.9920333@news.gte.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:30:30 GMT
Lines: 16

hilfen@sie.mir (Doc Marten) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## UTexas in Austin. I've been there a few years ago and saw
## the tower (which is now closed as I recall).

# Little Danny thinks he is so important and does not realize
# that I saw the tower before he was born.  Many times before
# he was born.  And probably saw it for the last time before
# he was born.

Yeh, well, er, ah, sure Matt, whatever you say, pal.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan  6 18:17:09 PST 1997
Article: 91477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Irma Grese
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:39:55 GMT
Lines: 29

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick; "The Belsen Trial", p. 713.

How was this young woman, and other young men and women
like her, turned into such animals?

Was it only the standard Nazi indoctrination - telling
these young people, since they were children, that they
are the "superior race", destined to rule the world, and
that Jews and other "undesirables" are "sub-human vermin"?

At least in Grese's case, it seems that another unique
Nazi indoctrination technique was used. In "The Belsen
Trial" (p. 250), we can read her testimony about how
commandant Hoess ordered her to beat another SS-woman,
Buchalter, who was punished for some offense.

Is it any wonder that, after beating another German
woman, she thought nothing about beating, and killing,
those whom she was told were "sub-humans"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan  7 08:36:40 PST 1997
Article: 91535 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Matt Giwer: "Supporter of Free Speech"? HA!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:20:02 GMT
Lines: 37

It's always good to remember who these "revisionists" really
are, and what they really want to achieve.
           
Here is an e-mail sent from the most active "revisionist" on 
the internet, Matt Giwer, to my ISP, attempting to limit my
postings. Remember, Giwer claims to "support free speech"...

Note also the threat to mailbomb my ISP if he doesn't
agree to meet this demand.



# Would you please ask your user to stop spamming the 
# alt.revisionism conference with holocaust material?  
# It would be much appreciated.  Although this is clearly 
# an unmoderated conference, his spams are making it unusable
# for its intended purpose.  This is but one of many examples.  
#
# This has gone on for over a year now since I first started 
# objecting to his spamming.  I have previously limited it to 
# public posting in the newsgroup.  At this point I know that 
# the patience of many of the users of the conference are losing 
# patience with his spamming and have suggested returning his 
# spams to his provider also.  
#
# Why not save yourself some hassle and try to slow him down?  
# Just an attempt to help out here.  
#
#       Thank you for your time.  
#
# [copy of one of my articles deleted]




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan  7 08:36:41 PST 1997
Article: 91553 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!news.glink.net.hk!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    <4rcxmOev1aj8065yn@login.dknet.dk>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:47:51 GMT
Lines: 29
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:91553 soc.culture.german:93710

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
# Daniel Keren wrote:

## Can you give one example of "serious scientific work" any
## of them has done, regarding the history of the Holocaust?
## Just one. Thank you.

# Sure no problem. Here is a small selection:
#
# Professor Arthur Butz: "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century"
# Carlo Mattogno: "Auschwitz, The End of a Legend"
# The Lueftl report.
# The Rudolph Report

This is not what I meant. I meant that you should provide more
than a title; that you should present an argument to us.

One can give the titles of many works about "German UFO's in
the South-Pole". The "leading revisionist", Ernst Zundel,
published a great deal about this, as you must know. However,
providing the titles of Zundel's works does not really help
to prove that the Nazis did indeed build these secret UFO
bases there.

Do you understand what I'm saying?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan  7 08:36:42 PST 1997
Article: 91567 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32ced522.5150921@199.0.216.204> <32d1a747.639436@199.0.216.204>  <32d91118.2809139@199.0.216.204>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 19:22:43 GMT
Lines: 47

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# I take it you think CO is safer than HCN.

No. Yet again, you prove that you cannot read plain
English. I said that one of the "gas-vans" exploded
in Chelmno. Using bottled CO would probably not result
in an explosion, but that was an expensive method,
which would require transporting these large, heavy
CO containers over long distances.

# You may have another point here. He called up the guys at
# Treblinka and said he had some good stuff. He told them all
# about it. The guys at Treblinka said, 'Hey, wait a minute,
# we don't need all that gas mask, ladder, openers, rubber suits,
# hoses, buckets of coal, Doctors, SS orderlies, special training
# and such, all we need to do is start engine.

The gas masks and specially trained staff were there anyway,
as they were using the Zyklon for fumigation. Are you senile
or something? We've been over this. The ladders? Wow, big
problem there. Openers? To open the Zyklon-B cans? They were
there anyway. Probably cost 50 cents each. Have you lost your
wits completely? These are the arguments you can present?

Hoses? They had to wash the gas chambers anyway, regardless
of the gas being used. Doctors? Whether they were present or
not did not depend on the gas being used; they were present
in the "euthanasia" killings, when CO was used. Orderlies?
What does that have to do with the type of gas being used?

# Now could you point out along the way where it said anything
# about a killing anyone in two minutes. You ask how long it
# would take to fill the alleged chamber. The answer was
# two minutes.

I have the Holtz-Elliot paper with me. A relatively large engine
(226 cu. in) releases about 4,000 cu. feet of exhaust in an
hour. So, it would take 4 hours to fill the large gas chambers.

# Oh you say CO works "much" slower than HCN?

Yes. For it to kill as fast as HCN, you need a rather high
concentration.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan  7 12:02:38 PST 1997
Article: 93721 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0749d.20252601@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:36:11 GMT
Lines: 53

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:

Your "witnesses" are irrelevant, as they were not in the
extermination complexes. Two were possibly in Birkenau, but
it was a rather large camp.

You're making a very silly error here. If this-and-that
didn't see the gas chambers, it doesn't prove they didn't
exist. Many people did not witness Dresden's bombing; this
doesn't prove it didn't happen.

What you have to explain, regarding the witnesses, is: how 
come each and every SS-man who served in Treblinka, Belzec, 
Sobibor etc stated that mass murder by poison gas took place 
in these camps?

# Paul Rassinier was a political prisoner at Buchenwald 
# and questioned the allegations of "gas chambers."

He is irrelevant. He was not in any of the camps in which
the mass gassing took place.

# Ginsburg denied the German Government ever
# contemplated the extermination of the Jews.

He is irrelevant as a witness, for the same reason.


# Thies Christopherson, author of the book, "The Auschwitz Lie",
# was at Auschwitz from January to December of 1944, says that
# gassings never took place.

Isn't this the former SS-man who was in Auschwitz III, and
never in Birkenau or Auschwitz I, where the gassing took place?

# Obviously this never happened to Maria as she lived to testify 
# of her account in a Toronto District Court in March 1988!

Irrelevant. No one ever claimed that everyone deported to
Auschwitz was gassed. The majority, yes. Not everyone.

# After the war, she testified that nothing of the sort ever 
# happened at Auschwitz-Birkenau while she was interned there.
# Maria said she only heard of the gassing tales later.

Where is her testimony? But, again, was she in the extermination
complex? 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan  7 18:46:42 PST 1997
Article: 91682 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Michael Kolnhofer
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:34:05 GMT
Lines: 7

Does anyone have more information about Michael Kolnhofer,
suspected of being a former member of the Waffen-SS, who
reportedly shot at police and reporters in Kansas City?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 05:43:43 PST 1997
Article: 91712 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <19970107155700.KAA02015@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:53:57 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@aol.com (Mgiwer) writes:

# Why don't you do yourself a favor and take a few science
# courses so you have some idea what you are talking about
# before you attempt to defend these idiot claims?

That's pretty funny, coming from someone who proves here,
day after day, that he cannot handle highschool math.

Matt, the following was posted by a "revisionist" friend
of yours. Is it correct or not? It's highschool math, Matt.

# In particular, the probability that five out of eleven
# observed statistics will be multiples of six is
#       1/6^(11/(11/5)) = 1 in 7,776.

Spare us your lame evasions "it's impossible to prove
anything this way", bla-bla. Is his calculation of the
probability correct or not? YES OR NO? I have been
asking you this for about two weeks now. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 05:43:43 PST 1997
Article: 91730 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4rcxmOev1aj8065yn@login.dknet.dk> <32ddc8c0.9795874@news.inetport.com> 
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:26:10 GMT
Lines: 24
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:91730 soc.culture.german:93768

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# The Lueftl report.
#
# What is unscientific about this one?

You're joking, right? How many times do we have to go 
through this?

How about, for instance, Lueftl's claim that it's impossible
to kill people by exposing them to the exhaust of a 500 BHP
diesel engine in a closed chamber, while experiments [1] proved
that animals in a closed chamber die when exposed to the exhaust
of a tiny, 6 BHP diesel engine?

Just one example.

[1] "The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under Four Different
Running Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial
Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p.  47-55.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 16:18:28 PST 1997
Article: 91803 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Opinion of what really happened (Was: Why is "Holocaust Denial" a bad thing?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <01bbfc39$f7f059c0$737213cc@server> <32d3d30c.1387682@news.inetport.com> <01bbfd06$c60c3320$5d7213cc@server>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:26:05 GMT
Lines: 26

Anthony Sabatini"  writes:

# Well, as I said in another post, I believe that much of World
# War II's history has been altered to suit the needs of the
# winners, i.e. the Allies.

What does "I believe" mean here? One may say "I believe WW2 never
took place", or "I believe that Dresden was never bombed".

Your statement is void of any value unless you somehow back it up
by facts and arguments.

# After all, it would be no great feat to push the losing side into
# "confessing" anything the victors wanted them to say, similar to many
# "confessions" wrung out of tortured souls accused of being witches
# during the Inquisition.

The "the SS-men were tortured into confessing" line is so
ridiculous that most "revisionists" seem to be dropping it. More
so since most of the testimonies about what happened in the death
camps were given by former SS-men testifying in German courts,
and tried by the German legal system.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 16:18:29 PST 1997
Article: 91816 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32ced522.5150921@199.0.216.204> <32db46ec.10801111@199.0.216.204>  <32d1a747.639436@199.0.216.204>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 23:49:21 GMT
Lines: 82

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com writes:

## The large ones in Birkenau (in Kremas II and III), which
## are the ones we're talking about,

# "...the ones we're talking about ..."? Really? Where does
# he get that idea?

I get it from Moran, who asked why Hoess didn't use engine
exhaust for the Auschwitz gas chambers. Hence, these are the
chambers we are talking about.

# Now if a 9 HP engine can deliver enough gas into an area
# of 4500 cubic feet in 30 minutes to cause effect we could
# figure a 250 HP engine delivers 25 times the CO than a
# 9.25 HP engine

Do you know for a fact that there is a linear relation between
HP output and CO output? Or are you just guessing?

# Three and a half minutes for a 250 HP engine to deliver
# enough CO to the toxic level for an area volume of 16,000
# cubic feet. Of course if we put two of these engines into
# the act, we would have less than 2 minutes.

It would probably be far more than 2 minutes. There's the
circulation, which may be a problem in such large chambers
as in Birkenau. Also, I think that in the examples you gave
(of accidental poisoning with engine exhaust), the engine
was inside the space where the people were, and thus it not only
pumped its exhaust into that space, it also used up the oxygen
in the space. That was not the method in Treblinka etc; the
engine was outside, so the victims will not destroy it, or
the connections to it, and so that it could be started from
the outside. This probably slowed the process.

I would also check, in those cases of accidental poisoning,
how far the people were from the engine. 

Your point is moot. I said that I agree that, if Hoess would
have decided to use engine exhaust, it would probably have
worked. He would hook up a few big engines to each chamber,
run them for enough time, and kill the people. He decided
against it. One obvious reason is that Zyklon-B was being
used in Auschwitz to kill people since 1941; it worked, 
and people usually like to stick with methods that work. 
Another reason, which he mentions in his memoirs, is the 
fact that he heard about problems that occurred while using 
engine exhaust for gassing in Chelmno and Treblinka.

There was also a well-known case of one of the gas-vans,
which used engine exhaust, exploding in Chelmno (see the
Just to Rauff letter). True, it seems to have happened
only once, but maybe Hoess didn't want to take the chance
of his beloved crematorium exploding.

When you have method A that works, you don't change it to
method B which you heard is problematic.

# Mr.Keren has expressed previously in this thread the 
# Germans wouldn't have known how to arrive at any figures
# in order to determine what sized engine would be suitable
# for exterminating people in the Crema II and III chambers
# and this is why they didn't use the well proven CO method 
# in the first place, going by Holocaust 'facts'.

I never said this. You should really stop lying so much.

# Okay, there's your answer Mr.Keren. One engine could deliver
# enough gas to the chambers in Cremas II and III, if they
# had really existed, in two minutes.

Would you kindly tell us what the volume of that engine would
have been, and at how many RPM's you would have to run it,
in order to kill people in a 400 cubic meter gas chamber
in two minutes? Consider the fact that CO is a much slower
acting poison than the cyanide gas which Zyklon-B releases. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 16:18:30 PST 1997
Article: 91817 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer and His 163 IQ Points
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32cfd3a3.1359393@news.gte.net>  <32d01197.15037805@news.gte.net>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 00:03:57 GMT
Lines: 34

hilfen@sie.mir (Doc Marten) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## This is the calculation your "revisionist" friend posted:
##
### In particular, the probability that five out of eleven
### observed statistics will be multiples of six is
###       1/6^(11/(11/5)) = 1 in 7,776.
##
## Is it correct or not? YES OR NO?

#  No, it is not proof of anything.

Answer the question, Matt. I didn't ask you if it was proof
of anything. I asked you if the calculation is correct.

My God - it's bad enough that you cannot handle high-school
math, but can't you understand plain English?

Yet again: you choose eleven integers in random. What is the
probability that five of them will be multiples of six? Can
you answer this question? Your evasions are simply hilarious.

Your "revisionist" friend claims the probability is 1/7,776.
Do you agree? Yes or no? You claimed to have an IQ of 163. You
have insulted people in this group, stating they are mentally
retarded when compared to you. How come, then, you can't solve
a trivial high-school math problem?

Get on with it, Matt!


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 19:36:42 PST 1997
Article: 91863 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Playing for Irma Grese--Fania Fenelon
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d4a095.2389557@news.inetport.com> <5avoll$dmc@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:18:40 GMT
Lines: 11

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick; "The Belsen Trial", p. 713.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 22:15:49 PST 1997
Article: 91872 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:10:27 GMT
Lines: 67

Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec...

During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
morning.

A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
their shoes...

After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
killed here...

Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan  8 22:15:50 PST 1997
Article: 91877 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. Kremer's Diary: 'They Don't Call Auschwitz the Extermination Camp For Nothing!'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:16:03 GMT
Lines: 55

Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz                   
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press,      
NY, 1988, p. 256-268]                                                      
----------------------------------------------------------------           
2 September 1942                                                           
                                                                           
3.00 a.m. attended my first Sonderaktion. Dante's Inferno seems to         
me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the         
extermination camp for nothing!                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
5 September 1942                                                           
                                                                           
In the morning attended a Sonderaktion from the women's concentration      
camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Hschf. Thilo -- army         
doctor -- was right when he said to me this is the 'anus mundi'. In        
the evening towards 8.00 attended another Sonderaktion from                
Holland.                                                                   
                                                                           
['Muslims' does not mean "practicing Islam"; this is the way the SS        
 referred to emaciated people]. 


10 October 1942                                                            
                                                                           
Extracted and fixed fresh live material from liver, spleen and             
pancreas...                                                                
                                                                           

11 October 1942                                                            
                                                                           
Today, Sunday, there was roast hare for lunch -- a real fat leg -- with    
dumplings and red cabbage for 1.25 RM.                                     
                                                                           
                                                                           
12 October 1942

Second inoculation against typhus, later on in the evening severe          
generalized reaction (fever). Despite this in the night attended a         
further Sonderaktion from Holland (1,600 persons). Ghastly scenes in       
front of the last bunker! That was the 10th Sonderaktion.                  
                                                                           
                                                                           
13 November 1942   

Extracted fresh live material (liver, spleen and pancreas) from a          
previously photographed, severely atrophied Jewish prisoner aged           
eighteen. Fixed as always, liver and spleen in Carnoy and pancreas in      
Zenker (Prisoner No. 68,030).




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Jan  9 16:55:11 PST 1997
Article: 91998 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lll-winken.llnl.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0749d.20252601@news.dmsc.net> <32d1dab9.82918957@news.dmsc.net> <32D3A218.1027@rio.com> <32d4830d.257109387@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:26:18 GMT
Lines: 33
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:91998 soc.culture.german:93850

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:

# The alleged "gas chambers" supposedly measured 5
# meters by 5 meters and were 1.9 meters high.

The gas chambers in Kremas II and III in Birkenau
were 30 x 7 x 2 meters. This is not only known from
the plans, it can also be easily verified, as they are
still there today.

Perhaps you should really do some reading? You obviously
have no idea about the history of the event you're
trying to deny.

# 12,000 bodies per day were "going up the stacks" at
# Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Why can't you "revisionists" handle third-grade math? On
the average, far less people than 12,000 were killed daily
in Auschwitz. If it was indeed 12,000, the total number
of deaths over 5 years would have been 12,000*5*360 =
21,600,000, while the real figure was about 1.3 million.

Why do you have to keep posting such incredibly idiotic
articles, proving that you are both very ignorant and
extremely stupid? Do you get a pleasure out of this? How
odd.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Jan 10 14:42:17 PST 1997
Article: 92062 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:31:47 GMT
Lines: 23

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images

eg-01.jpg, eg-02.jpg, eg-03.jpg, eg-04.jpg, eg-05.jpg
Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR.

eg-06.jpg
Pyre of corpses ready to be set on fire.

eg-07.jpg
Mass grave.

eg-map.jpg
Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied 
Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

report-51.jpg
Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4 
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan 11 07:21:39 PST 1997
Article: 92164 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!Quza.UK.peer!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 970110: Irma Grese
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:24:03 GMT
Lines: 11
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92164 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3315

  "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
  there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
  they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
  to be easiest".

Irma Grese, on how she used to beat Auschwitz inmates
with a stick; "The Belsen Trial", p. 713.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan 11 12:14:41 PST 1997
Article: 211911 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:57:20 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan 11 12:14:42 PST 1997
Article: 211912 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!newsfeed.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:02:21 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan 11 13:15:48 PST 1997
Article: 92294 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:18:29 GMT
Lines: 16

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images

MedExp03.jpg:

The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".


See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

(Translation to be added soon).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Jan 11 22:58:58 PST 1997
Article: 92377 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!usenet.logical.net!iag.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Mauthausen Deaths
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:25:09 GMT
Lines: 14

During the first four months of 1945, Mauthausen's
population never exceeded 100,000. Nonetheless, 27,349
inmates died during these four months.

Source: "Mauthausen", by Evelyn Le Chene.

Since "revisionists" now blame the mass death in Belsen
camp on "the water pump that broke down", what will it
be for Mauthausen? The water pipe was clogged, and no
one could fix it?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan 12 06:34:16 PST 1997
Article: 92416 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Deliberate Deceptions: Facts and Fallacy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:38:24 GMT
Lines: 54
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92416 talk.politics.mideast:86694

slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:

# In bright daylight on June 8, with no other combat
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# taking place nearby, Israeli warplanes and torpedo
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# boats repeatedly attacked the U.S. intelligence ship
# Liberty off the Sinai coast,

Isn't this stretching it just a bit too far?

Have you ever heard about the so-called "Six Day War"?
It was a full-scale war between Israel and Egypt, Syria,
and Jordan; and it took place between June 5 and June 11.

The Liberty was sent into a war zone; it was a mistake.




              COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING U.S.S. LIBERTY

 "During the afternoon of June 7th, the Joint Chiefs of Staff decided
to reposition U.S.S Liberty to move her further away from from the
coasts of the belligerent nations. In implementing that decision, a
series of five messages from JCS and U.S commanders in the European
Command were directed to U.S.S Liberty and other addresses. None of
these messages had reached Liberty by 1200Z hours on June 8th, 13.5
hours after the first message was released for transmission. The
circumstances surrounding the misrouting, loss and delay of these
messages constitute one of the most incredible failures of
communications in the history of the Department of Defense".



The ship was erroneously sent into a war zone. It was then
misidentified and attacked. Israel had no reason whatsoever
to attack the ship of an ally.

Such tragedies happen during wars. In a well-known incident,
an Israeli F4 Phantom jet erroneously attacked an Israeli
convoy, in June 1982, during the military operation in
Lebanon. 25 Israeli soldiers were killed. And we all know
about the "friendly fire" incidents in the Gulf War, resulting
in coalition troops being killed by other coalition members.

It really makes one sick to see how Nazis and "Holocaust
revisionists" use the Liberty tragedy for their own hateful
cause. This is a grave insult to the memory of the American
sailors who died on the ship.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan 12 06:34:17 PST 1997
Article: 92417 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!usenet.logical.net!iag.net!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Simplifications by Swiger
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5b76qs$h7k@explorer2.clark.net> <32d87113.15438507@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:57:59 GMT
Lines: 52
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92417 soc.culture.german:93989

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:

# There has never been produced a German order for
# the "Holocaust style" extermination of the Jews.

The following are just a few examples of documents
which prove beyond the shadow of doubt that there was
a plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe, and that such
a plan was implemented. What really infuriates our
"revisionist scholars" is that the Nazis didn't have
enough time to kill *all* the European Jews.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg,wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar
Lohse, October 25, 1941, about murdering Jews "unfit for
work" using poison gas.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images

eg-map.jpg
Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied
Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

report-51.jpg
Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
In  Message-ID: <01bbffd9$30dc9850$4c7213cc@server>,
the "Holocaust revisionist" Anthony Sabatini
, wrote the following about
the members of the Nizkor project for documentation
of the Holocaust:

# Well, I don't know about the Communists, but if I
# have my way, the only thing these Nizkorites will
# be interrogating is the prison guard as to what time
# lunch is served.



But, do not forget: "revisionist" always claim that
they support free speech...


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan 12 18:11:13 PST 1997
Article: 92508 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.belnet.be!swsbe6.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Deliberate Deceptions: Facts and Fallacy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:56:28 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92508 talk.politics.mideast:86727

slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:

# To paraphrase Danny Keren up above, it really makes one
# sick to see how Jews and Zionists would use the Holocaust
# (not to mention an old Nazi and his racist regime run by
# and for White supremacists) to further their own hateful
# agenda. This is a grave insult to the millions of Jews
# who either suffered or died during the Second World War.

It may have indeed been a shameful thing to invite Vorster
to Yad-Vashem - if what you write about him is true; I have
no idea. Anyway, it does not change the fact that it really
makes one sick to see how Nazis and "Holocaust revisionists"
use the Liberty tragedy for their own hateful cause. This is
a grave insult to the memory of the American sailors who
died on the ship.

We can run a few more iteration of this, if you want. It's
very easy with the mouse; I just cut and paste, you know.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Jan 12 18:11:14 PST 1997
Article: 92527 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!news1.bellglobal.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0749d.20252601@news.dmsc.net> <32d4830d.257109387@news.dmsc.net>  <32d72827.430473483@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:48:32 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92527 soc.culture.german:94041

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:

# Daniel Keren Replied:

## The gas chambers in Kremas II and III in Birkenau
## were 30 x 7 x 2 meters. This is not only known from
## the plans, it can also be easily verified, as they are
## still there today.

# The Leichenkeller and shower rooms have indeed been
# alleged gas chambers but, there is no forensic evidence
# to support this.

There are cyanide compounds both on the walls and the
ventilation grills. I told you already: try to do some
minimal reading about the event you're trying to deny.

# Nonetheless, the measurements I posted are correct based
# upon the "affidavit" of Gerstein who is quoted here.
# ".........The rooms are 5 by 5 meters and 1.90 meters high."

But he was talking about Belzec camp. I am talking about
Auschwitz camp. These are two different camps. Belzec is
not Auschwitz, and Auschwitz is not Belzec. Belzec is one
camp, and Auschwitz is another camp. Belzec and Auschwitz
are not the same.

Hello? Is this sinking in? I can elaborate further if not.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 07:13:57 PST 1997
Article: 92539 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!agate!newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!news.glink.net.hk!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'In 1940 the program of killing started'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:12:35 GMT
Lines: 18

Excerpt from the statement of Heinrich Ruoff, who was employed in
one of the Nazi "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) centers
[Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 75]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
My name is Heinrich Ruoff and I reside in the asylum at Hadamar. I
began working in the asylum at Hadamar as chief male nurse in 1926.
In about the year 1933 Bernotat became supervisor of the Institution.
About 1935 Alfons Klein came there and became later on administration
chief under Bernotat. In 1940 the program of killing started. Those 
people who were brought here were German mentally sick. These people 
were gassed to death and then burned. Bernotat instructed the people 
who worked there that they were not allowed to say anything about what
they heard, saw, and did.



-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 07:13:58 PST 1997
Article: 92546 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!news.gs.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'One cannot protest when in the army'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:17:57 GMT
Lines: 16

Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949.p. 717]
----------------------------------------------------------------
When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick
out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, 
old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria 
at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas
chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz.

 .
 .
 .

I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, 
although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 07:13:59 PST 1997
Article: 92556 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0749d.20252601@news.dmsc.net> <32d4830d.257109387@news.dmsc.net>  
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:52:17 GMT
Lines: 39

scholz@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Guenter A. Scholz) writes:

[To me]

# In all fairness, Daniel, right or wrong, Swiger used as
# a source for this a respected US newspaper (Boston Globe 
# I seem to remember but not sure anymore). 

I do believe that most of what is written in newspapers,
even "respected" ones, is so full of errors that it should
not be used in debates about historical events.

It is ridiculous that someone claiming to be a "historian",
will use an obviously incorrect excerpt from a newspaper.

A newspaper is not a serious historical source, and it does
not pretend to be one.

# Sooooo, it would seem that `such incredibly idiotic articles' 
# should not be written in newspapers in the first place.

True for many stories printed in many newspapers.

The bottom line is that Swiger should have applied his
alleged "revisionist skepticism and analysis" to the
newspaper article. This, he certainly did not do, either
because he has no tools with which to conduct such an
analysis (which in this case required a trivial calculation), 
or because he's a cheap propagandist, or both.

Regards,


-Danny Keren.

Posted/e-mailed to Guenter A. Scholz.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 10:35:21 PST 1997
Article: 92675 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: KGB Americas Monitoring Private Citizens? Yes!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199701082301.PAA23108@mailmasher.com> <5b49jj$iha@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <32D65D7F.3355@phoenix.net> <01bbffd9$30dc9850$4c7213cc@server>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:07:47 GMT
Lines: 15
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92675 alt.politics.white-power:55664 alt.politics.nationalism.white:43368

"Anthony Sabatini"  writes:

# Well, I don't know about the Communists, but if I
# have my way, the only thing these Nizkorites will be
# interrogating is the prison guard as to what time
# lunch is served.

All in the spirit of "'revisionist' support for free speech",
of course...

This is a real classic. It's going to be my next .sig.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 18:21:21 PST 1997
Article: 92723 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!visi.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d0749d.20252601@news.dmsc.net> <32d72827.430473483@news.dmsc.net>  <32d95548.1582220@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:54:58 GMT
Lines: 70
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92723 soc.culture.german:94143

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:

# If you are attempting to shift the argument away from 
# Gerstein's "confession" and onto the morgues at Auschwitz-
# Birkenau this is fine with me.

No I'm not. You were the one who confused the gas chambers
of both camps, claiming that the ones in Auschwitz were
much smaller than they really were.

# The morgues at Aushwitz-Birkenau no doubt were disinfected
# with Zyklon-B and this would explain the trace amounts of
# cyanide on the walls.

Zyklon-B is not used for disinfecting morgues. Also, morgues
are not referred to in construction documents as "gassing
cellars" and "gas chambers".

# There have been three scientific and forensic analyses conducted
# on these morgues to validate their use as an execution gas
# chamber and all three have concluded that it would have been
# engineeringly impossible to utilize these structures for this 
# purpose.

Swiger, I'll make a deal with you. You present the best claims
you think these "analyses" make, and I'll refute them. If I
don't succeed, I promise to become a die-hard "revisionist".

It's your big chance. Go for it, Swiger. You'll probably be
promoted to Obergruppenfuehrer, or something, for converting
me to "revisionism". Go for it.

# isn't it strange that the Jewish victims would not have
# attempted to beat their way though these doors?

You're claiming it's impossible to build a wooden door
strong enough so people won't be able to break it? You're
nuts, old boy. Go see a doctor.

# Let me ask you, have any of these mass graves of Jews at
# or near Belzec EVER been discovered?

The corpses were eventually burned. I am not aware of 
excavations held in Belzec, but such excavations were 
held in Treblinka and huge amounts of human remains and 
ashes were discovered.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In  Message-ID: <01bbffd9$30dc9850$4c7213cc@server>,
the "Holocaust revisionist" Anthony Sabatini 
, wrote the following about
the members of the Nizkor project for documentation
of the Holocaust:

# Well, I don't know about the Communists, but if I 
# have my way, the only thing these Nizkorites will 
# be interrogating is the prison guard as to what time 
# lunch is served.



But, do not forget: "revisionist" always claim that
they support free speech...




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 18:21:22 PST 1997
Article: 92726 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!usenet.logical.net!iag.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!news.texas.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp4.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: specially designed
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d862ec.15030720@news.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:02:50 GMT
Lines: 33

BOb@the.helm (Brian Oblivion) writes:

# 11 Jan 97 was a good day.

What happened, Matt? You found a job? You managed
to solve the high-school math problem I presented
to you? What?

# So it seems that the SWC covers it ass by saying
# that the way to tell a gas chamber is that it is a
# specially designed room in that it had a door.
# Although a door may have been unique to normal nazi
# construction it is unclear what import anyone else
# should give to it.

Can anyone figure out what the poor old drunkard is
babbling about? Yes, ordinary rooms have doors. Gas
chambers have doors. Airplanes have doors. Are we to
conclude that every two structures that have doors
serve the same purpose?

Get a grip, Matt, for God's sake.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, "leading
revisionist" Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas
chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums don't
prove anything, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of 
humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Jan 13 20:42:28 PST 1997
Article: 92740 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Terror in Poland
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:00:03 GMT
Lines: 50

More excerpts from the work diary of Hans Frank, governor of
Nazi-occupied Poland, regarding the reign of terror imposed on
the Poles by the Nazi occupying forces. These are also taken
>from  document PS-2233, and appear in "Nazi Conspiracy and 
Aggression", Vol. IV.

Page 907 (Frank speaks in department heads meeting, 8 March 1940):

"Wherever there is the least attempt by the Poles to start anything,
 an enormous campaign of destruction directed against the Poles
 will follow".

Page 909 (Frank speaks in department heads meeting, 19 December 1940):

"The Pole must feel here that we are not building him a legal
 state, but that for him there is only one duty, namely, to work 
 and to behave himself. It is clear that this leads sometimes to
 difficulties, but you must in your own interest see, that all
 measures are ruthlessly carried out in order to become master of
 the situation".

Page 911 (Frank speaks in a conference of the District 
Standartenfuehrer of the NSDAP, 18 March 1942):

"You see how the state agencies work. You see that we do not
 hesitate before anything, and stand whole dozens of people up
 against the wall. This is necessary because here simple 
 consideration says that it cannot be our task at this period 
 when the best German blood is being sacrificed to show regard
 for the blood of another race".

Page 917 (Frank in a speech to members of the District 
Standortfuehrung, 14 January 1944):

"Once we have won the war, then, for all I care, mincemeat can
 be made of the Poles and the Ukrainians and all the others who
 run around here - it doesn't matter what happens".

Page 917 (Frank in a meeting of the Political Leaders of the
NSDAP):

"I have not been hesitant in declaring that when a German is
 shot, up to 100 Poles shall be shot too".




-Danny Keren. 




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan 14 02:36:04 PST 1997
Article: 92784 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.InterGate.BC.CA!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:11:30 GMT
Lines: 33

Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
[Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October,
   1940, in August, 1940?

A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people
   from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told
   me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was
   explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all
   incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat
   Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin
   to the Gemeinde Stiftung.

[...]

Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?

A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
   of it.

Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar?

A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941.

Q. What was done during that period?

A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different
   Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas
   chambers and killed there.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan 14 02:36:05 PST 1997
Article: 92791 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.InterGate.BC.CA!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!hub.org!visi.com!mr.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!insync!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The curiously unresponsive Mr. Swiger
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d20074.92579933@news.dmsc.net>   
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:37:26 GMT
Lines: 55

slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:

# I provided the example of Treblinka, where eyewitness
# testimony of the death of two or three million Jews in
# the "steam chambers" was reported by eyewitnesses as
# having actually occurred,

But I have explained to you that these eyewitnesses were
spies (members of the Polish underground), who were looking
at the camps from a distance; who had no idea what was
happening in them, because the SS didn't organize tours
in the camps; who were in fear for their lives.

And, some of these spies apparently made what I consider
to be a rather understandable mistake; they most probably
confused the hot engine exhaust for steam.

Has any of the SS-men from the camp said that steam was
used? No. They all said engine exhaust was used. The
difference is that they built and ran the gas chambers,
and thus gave a more accurate testimony than the
Polish spies.

Do we have far more absurd mistakes in testimonies about
Dresden's bombing? Yes. I've quoted them.

So, do we dismiss a historical event because some people,
who had only very partial information about it, erred in
a technical detail concerning that event? Probably, you
think that the answer is yes. But then, you have to be
consistent and also claim that Dresden wasn't bombed;
that's all. All I ask is that you crazies be consistent
in your craziness.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
In  Message-ID: <01bbffd9$30dc9850$4c7213cc@server>,
the "Holocaust revisionist" Anthony Sabatini
, wrote the following about
the members of the Nizkor project for documentation
of the Holocaust:

# Well, I don't know about the Communists, but if I
# have my way, the only thing these Nizkorites will
# be interrogating is the prison guard as to what time
# lunch is served.



But, do not forget: "revisionist" always claim that
they support free speech...




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan 14 10:11:27 PST 1997
Article: 92854 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust and Jewish Lies
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32d87e1e.18777811@news.dmsc.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:11:24 GMT
Lines: 52
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92854 soc.culture.german:94215

[Followup-To: alt.revisionism]

cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:

# During the trial, it was revealed that Jew Rosenberg had
# given a deposition in 1947 in which he said "Ivan the
# Terrible" had been killed by concentration camp inmates.
# He tried to lie his way out of this by saying the
# information he gave in 1947 was based on hearsay and was
# erroneous. Late in the trial, however, the defense team for
# Demjanjuk produced a document, hand written in Yiddish no 
# less by Rosenberg himself, for a Warsaw historial 
# institute, declaring he had PERSONALLY helped kill 
# "Ivan the Terrible!"

Do you have the exact words Mr. Rosenberg used? As I
recall, this excerpt was indeed read during the trial,
and Mr. Rosenberg said that during the Treblinka revolt
he (or someone else, I don't remember) hit "Ivan", who,
as a result, fell down. He certainly didn't claim to
have conducted a medical examination to see if "Ivan" 
was indeed dead; the only thing the "sonderkommando" had
in mind was to run away as fast as possible, before 
other troops would arrive to the camp and kill them all.

If you have the accurate text of what Mr. Rosenberg said,
let's have it. I recall that he said that "Ivan" was
struck and fell down. He may have erroneously concluded
that he died. However, as I recall, SS-men from the camp
testified that "Ivan" wasn't killed in the revolt.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In  Message-ID: <01bbffd9$30dc9850$4c7213cc@server>,
the "Holocaust revisionist" Anthony Sabatini 
, wrote the following about
the members of the Nizkor project for documentation
of the Holocaust:

# Well, I don't know about the Communists, but if I 
# have my way, the only thing these Nizkorites will 
# be interrogating is the prison guard as to what time 
# lunch is served.



But, do not forget: "revisionist" always claim that
they support free speech...




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Jan 14 18:03:15 PST 1997
Article: 92904 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!insync!uunet!in2.uu.net!199.172.62.14!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The Nazi Looting of Poland
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:58:21 GMT
Lines: 55

Here are a few excerpts from the work diary of Hans Frank, governor 
of Nazi-occupied Poland, in which he discusses the plundering of 
Poland and the systematic starvation of the Polish population (Frank
also mentions that about a million Poles have been rounded up and 
sent as slave labor force to Germany).

All quotes are from "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression", Vol. IV. All
are taken from document 2233-PS.

Page 914: on 20 November 1942, Frank discusses food plundered from
Poland and sent to Germany:

"Of the total 180,000 head of cattle to be delivered, 159,000 have
 been delivered to the Reich up to now. 360,000,000 eggs have been
 collected. 92,000,000 of those eggs were delivered for the Reich,
 and 85,000,000 are already in possession of the Reich...

 It was stated in the decree of 25 August 1942 that a decrease in 
 the rations should occur, respectively that rations should be
 denied completely to the Polish population not working for the
 German interest".



Page 915: in a meeting (14 December 1942) Frank mentions more food
supplies taken from Poland:

"I will endeavor to get out of the reservoir of this territory
 everything that is yet to be got out of it.

 When you consider that it was possible for me to deliver to the
 Reich 600,000 tons of bread grain, and in addition 180,000 tons
 to the Armed Forces stationed here..."



Those who suffered from this ruthless plundering of Poland's
resources were, of course, the Poles. On page 909, we have
the following:

"Obermedizinalrat Dr. Walbaum expresses his opinion of the health
 condition of the Polish population. Investigations which were
 carried out by his department proved that the majority of Poles
 eat only about 600 calories, whereas the normal requirement
 for a human being is 2,200 calories. The Polish population was
 enfeebled to such an extent that it would fall an easy prey to
 spotted fever..."




-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan 15 08:27:52 PST 1997
Article: 92948 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeeds.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!news.gs.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp5.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Opinion of what really happened (Was: Why is "Holocaust Denial" a bad thing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <19970110181200.NAA18496@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19970110194500.OAA20978@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:32:42 GMT
Lines: 49

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# It would be useful if someone would compile a list of what
# has surfaced since to give the gassing chamber stories
# credence.  Does not the evidence for their existence consist
# entirely of oral testimonies, often hearsay, and a handful
# of documents whose application requires some amount of
# interpretation?  Is there any physical evidence at all?

Some of the gas chambers themselves are there in the camps.
That's physical evidence, right?

Oral testimonies? Yes, but supported by each and every 
person who was in these camps. As I said a few times, you
would have a case if, say, 50 percent of the people who
were in Treblinka would have denied the gas chambers. You
would have a weaker case if it was 25 percent. A much 
weaker case if it was 10 percent. But it's 0 percent. You
have a serious problem there.

"documents whose application requires some amount of
interpretation?" What do you mean by this?

# I offer this question and suggestion in good faith

I am sorry, but after reading your articles here for a few
years now, I don't believe anything you write.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In  Message-ID: <01bbffd9$30dc9850$4c7213cc@server>,
the "Holocaust revisionist" Anthony Sabatini 
, wrote the following about
the members of the Nizkor project for documentation
of the Holocaust:

# Well, I don't know about the Communists, but if I 
# have my way, the only thing these Nizkorites will 
# be interrogating is the prison guard as to what time 
# lunch is served.



But, do not forget: "revisionist" always claim that
they support free speech...




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan 15 08:27:53 PST 1997
Article: 92995 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!uucp6.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Judge
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32D40393.1E82@rio.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:29:39 GMT
Lines: 16

Let me add to Chuck Ferree's article that Grabner wasn't
jailed by the SS; Dr. Morgen described in Nurnberg how
the Chief of the Gestapo, Muller, intervened on
Grabner's behalf.

However, this murderous brute was captured, tried, and
hanged by the Poles after the war.

# Morgen testified at Nuremberg and practiced law again
# in Germany after the war.

He also appeared as a witness in the "Auschwitz Trial"
in Frankfurt, 1963-5.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Jan 15 15:19:58 PST 1997
Article: 93039 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!wetware!pa1.interserve.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!uucp3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Brack Testifies About the Gassings in the 'Euthanasia' Centers
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:10:09 GMT
Lines: 78

Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 
p. 876-886].
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
   by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
   methods were the mercy deaths given?

A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
   formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities
   here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
   etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there 
   killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).

Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?

A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
   container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel
   container.

Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
   suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
   chambers?

A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's
   basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
   painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
   photographing of the patients, which was only done for
   scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
   chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
   Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
   told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
   20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.
 .
 .
 .

Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
   were given?

A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
   brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
   room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
   were dead.

Q. Then what happened to the bodies?

A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
   cremation and they were cremated.

Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
   dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?

A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
 .
 .
 .

Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
   bath?

A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
   thought that.

Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
   clothes on or were they nude?

A. No. They were nude.

Q. In every case?

A. Whenever I saw them, yes.




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