The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/keren.daniel/1996/keren.0996


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 10:39:16 PDT 1996
Article: 61468 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gassed again and again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5092dm$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:52:08 GMT
Lines: 14

This is, indeed, one testimony which is probably untrue.

It was given by a child, who was 11-years-old when the war
ended. A child of that age is not, of course, expected to
give a very accurate testimony, moreover after living in 
a concentration camp.

I guess Giwer feels like a big hero, picking on a child?

Wouldn't it be better to try and look for a job, Matty?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 10:39:20 PDT 1996
Article: 61469 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ecologically minded SS
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508eam$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:39:00 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[From Morgen's testimony]

# ... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas 
# was let into the room. As soon as death had set in, the
# ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again, 
# the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. 
# By means of a special procedure... they were burned in the open
                                 ^^^
# air without the use of fuel."

Aha, that sneaky little devil. Once again, note how he carefully
edited out the part in which Morgen states that the procedure was
introduced by Wirth; therefore, he most probably was talking
about burning the corpses using large amounts of wood, which
was the method introduced in the camps of which Wirth was
in charge.

A smart little devil, that Giwer. Not smart enough to find a
job, though...


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 10:39:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61470 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: And Giwer Keeps Lying (Re: Keeping the Belsen myths going)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5091jc$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:48:27 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

A truly spectacular lie from Giwer; have a look, this is
classical "revisionist tactic".

# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and 
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000 
# Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp. 

A lie, of course. Dr. Bendel

1) Said the gassing took place in Auschwitz-Birkenu, not Belsen.

2) Didn't say that all the people were murdered in one night.

This is, again, a typical "revisionist" tactic: lie about a
testimony, and distort what a witness really said, in order
to make him/her look unreliable.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 10:39:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61471 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Tom Moran's Forgery Of Prufer's Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 15:05:53 GMT
Lines: 22

karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power)

# Oh, please. The absence of ">" marks at the beginning of Moron's 
# own lines clearly indicated that they were his additions. He
# wasn't trying to fool anyone. It was just his infantile attempt
# at sarcasm.

Adding the ">" would have made it appear as if I posted the
forgery, which would possibly make it a criminal offense on
Moran's part.

You just don't realize how stupid he is. As a matter of
fact, his defense was "why would I do it in such a stupid
way"? Answer: because he is stupid.

I am convinced it was an attempt to forge the testimony; I
also recall that someone asked if Moran's forgery was part
of the true testimony, and Moran declined to respond.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 11:44:45 PDT 1996
Article: 61487 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <322489a2.7442483@news.spry.com> <506bdj$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:26:10 GMT
Lines: 37

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
 
[About the euthanasia gas chambers]
 
# And of course these rooms have never been discovered.  Nor have any
# blueprints for them.
 
How do you know?
 
# Anyone with the slightest idea of the volume of compressed
# gas knows this is a ridiculous assertion.  
 
More "scientific" rubbish from Matt Giwer, the same person who
claimed HCN will not evaporate from Zyklon at 20 degrees...
 
What the hell are you babbling about?
 
You put the people in the chamber. You release the CO into
it. The people die. What is so difficult to understand?
 
Are you claiming it would have been impossible to get enough into
a container to kill the people? Do you know how many parts-per-
million of CO will kill a person? And if they needed two
containers, so what?
 
# And of course there is no public record of the "public clamor" that
# that is what we have come to expect from these stories.  
 
Another outright lie. Many letters of protest against the euthanasia
murders were sent; some are posted here regularly.
 
You're a useless liar. No, wait, you're not useless. You do serve
a cause. But not the one you think you serve.
 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 13:42:06 PDT 1996
Article: 61510 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The T4 Euthansia Program
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <503tus$sra@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <509tv5$3tss@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:40:14 GMT
Lines: 78

Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 
p. 876-886].
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
   by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
   methods were the mercy deaths given?

A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
   formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities
   here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
   etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there 
   killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).

Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?

A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
   container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel
   container.

Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
   suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
   chambers?

A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's
   basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
   painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
   photographing of the patients, which was only done for
   scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
   chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
   Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
   told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
   20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.
 .
 .
 .

Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
   were given?

A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
   brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
   room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
   were dead.

Q. Then what happened to the bodies?

A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
   cremation and they were cremated.

Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
   dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?

A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
 .
 .
 .

Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
   bath?

A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
   thought that.

Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
   clothes on or were they nude?

A. No. They were nude.

Q. In every case?

A. Whenever I saw them, yes.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 13:42:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61516 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.white-power,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3228dc01.245303398@nntp.ix.netcom.com>  <32293b8a.2741910@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:54:11 GMT
Lines: 62
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28174 alt.revisionism:61516

      Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
        Irving's extreme dishonesty and deceitfulness
      ---------------------------------------------------
 
Together with Robert Faurisson, David Irving is considered by
Holocaust-deniers as a "leading revisionist" worldwide. It is not
absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far 
higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).
 
Nontheless, it may be worthwhile to take a look at a typical
"Irving argument". Faurisson's "technique" of using outright lies 
and deceit was covered in a different article. 
 
In an article quoted a few times by "Jeff Roberts" on this 
group, Irving is answering Pearson, during his appearance as
a witness in the Zundel trial; Roberts' text (and Irving's)
is preceded by "#".
 
# Pearson [prosecutor at the Zundel trial] mentioned a report number
# 51 dated December 1, 1942, which mentioned 363,211 Soviet Jews
# executed over the past three months. 
#
# I can only repeat what I said previously,  said [David] Irving,
# that this was such an extraordinary document, that the figure
# was so unusual [...].
#
# "This document is very much an orphan," said Irving.
 
This is an outright lie; Irving cannot directly challenge the
document, so he tries to cast doubts by claiming it is an
"orphan document", not supported by other documents.
 
Being the "leading revisionist scholar" he is, Irving must have 
"forgotten" some other documents. His "orphan document" has,
in fact, many relatives; here are some.
 
1) Letter from Generalkommisar for white Russia, Kube, to Reichkommisar
   for the Ostland, Lohse, 31 July 1942. Reports that 55,000 Jews
   were murdered in the last ten weeks.
 
2) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
   Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941. Reports that so far up to
   200,000 Jews were murdered in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.
 
3) Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich, 
   January 31, 1942. Reports that, so far, 229,000 Jews were
   murdered in the "Eastern Territories".

4) Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
   in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941. Reports that, so far,
    more than 130,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi-occupied Lithuania
 
Perhaps Irving never heard about these documents?
 
Perhaps he did, and he's lying through his teeth?
 
Either way, he's a "revisionist scholar".
 
 
-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 13:42:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61519 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The T4 Euthansia Program
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <503tus$sra@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <509tv5$3tss@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:41:21 GMT
Lines: 33

Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
[Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October,
   1940, in August, 1940?

A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people
   from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told
   me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was
   explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all
   incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat
   Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin
   to the Gemeinde Stiftung.

[...]

Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?

A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
   of it.

Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar?

A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941.

Q. What was done during that period?

A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different
   Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas
   chambers and killed there.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 15:08:38 PDT 1996
Article: 61535 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <506cff$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:15:47 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Why does only one of the underground morgues have a gas-tight
## door? If both were shelters, both would have them, right?
 
# What is this both you are talking about?  Trying to sneak 
# something new in back the back door again?  

Good old Giwer, still crazy after all these years.

Matty my boy, nobody but you - "revisionist" or "non-revisionist" - 
has any doubt that each of Kremas II and III had two large
underground cellars. Nobody. 

They are mentioned in the plans.

They are clearly visible today.

Give it up. Enough is enough.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 15:08:39 PDT 1996
Article: 61536 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flaming Kremas
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508f15$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:30:08 GMT
Lines: 13

Before starting to respond to this one, let's make one
point clear. Mike Stein, not long ago, had a long conversation
with a crematory operator. The fellow said that flames can
definitely come out of a crematorium chimney; the phenomena
even has a name: "a candle".
 
I guess you have missed that, Giwer? All this free time,
and yet you miss so much.
 
 
-Danny Keren.
 



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 16:26:37 PDT 1996
Article: 61564 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: defenders oif Keren
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5042ld$ff2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <50c1lf$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 21:58:11 GMT
Lines: 11

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Remember, jerkoff, I could retire at 46.  You can no
# not and enver will be able to do that, child.

can you find a job?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 22:02:34 PDT 1996
Article: 61567 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: McVay's little boy mind
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:17:54 GMT
Lines: 12

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Aside from his postings from his archives, he never can
# engage in any argument from his own thinking,

And you can? Like your claim that it would have made more
sense to use "liquid HCN" than Zyklon-B?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  1 22:02:34 PDT 1996
Article: 61568 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is amazing among the holohuggers
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50bvuk$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 21:56:09 GMT
Lines: 38

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# They really believe in spirits.

You don't have a job.

# Even more interesting, they believe in the Devil/Satan.

You're unemployed.

# Even more interesting there are more fewer atheists than
# there are people who believe in the devil.

You retired at the age of 46, probably because no one was
willing to hire someone like you.

# These are the holohuggers.

You are a failure.

# They are superstitious, religion beiieving basket cases.

You are a loser.

# They are so stupid that they really believe there was a
# Moses, that the Hebrews were in Israel and an dozen other
# things to stupid ot mention.

You are going down the tubes.

# They are dumber than dogshit.

They have jobs. You don't.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  2 09:28:09 PDT 1996
Article: 61652 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3228dc01.245303398@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32293b8a.2741910@nntp.ix.netcom.com>  <3229e0d7.9357956@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 08:09:04 GMT
Lines: 18

ursus_m@ix.netcom.com (Ursus Major) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## It is not
## absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
## neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
## 4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far 
## higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).

# It's also a figure wildly in excess of that given by Jean-Claude
# Pressac, "Affirmer" bought-and-paid-for by the Karlsfelds.

I am not aware of Pressac making any comments on the total
number of Holocaust victims; if you know something, post it.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  2 15:04:30 PDT 1996
Article: 137981 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:04:38 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep  3 07:43:47 PDT 1996
Article: 61865 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <506cff$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <50gi9f$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:50:51 GMT
Lines: 53

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Matty my boy, nobody but you - "revisionist" or "non-revisionist" -
## has any doubt that each of Kremas II and III had two large
## underground cellars. Nobody.

# Then why did your "calculation" use the size of the entire
# structure rather than just of the room?

Matty, I have no idea what you're talking about. I *did* use
the size of only one room: the gas chamber, or "cellar I". It
is about 500 m^3 (30 X 7 X 2.4 m).

# Why did you agree with my calculation which used the total size
# of the structure?

I don't recal agreeing with anything you've ever claimed.

# BTW2:  I only started that spreadsheet-which-is-really-not-a-
# wordprocessr after you gave the approximate dimensions of the
# entire building and proceeded to use them for the one and only
# calculation ever presented by an indentified  non-CS major.

Gee, now I'm hurt. BTW, my B.Sc was indeed in pure math; later,
I switched to CS, in which I obtained my Ph.D.

# Yes, enough is quite enough.  And do not forget, the layout is on
# Nizkor (the Holocaust's Attic) and if you want to insist upon your
# dimensions as the size of the room then the size of the entire
# structure can be determined.

The gas chamber (cellar I) was 30 X 7 meters in area. The "undressing
room" (cellar II) 50 X 8 meters.

# You will be amazed at how huge it is.

Do tell us. By "structure" you mean Kremas II & III?

# It will rival several modern structures as the largest ever
# by that construction technique.

Tell us more about it. But be careful. You don't want to post
any more incredibly stupid articles, which prove you cannot
handle basic arithmetic. So, take a friendly advice from a
non-friend: check your figures before you post. And DON'T
consult Tom Moran. He's usually off by two orders of
magnitude.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep  3 07:43:49 PDT 1996
Article: 61871 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No "induction" holes here - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50g6vb$bkh@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:12:31 GMT
Lines: 8

Don't know, Matty - I can see them.

You probably don't know where the gas chamber is, in the
photo. Try again.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep  3 13:20:58 PDT 1996
Article: 61940 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:55:46 GMT
Lines: 26

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against
# Demjanjuk for perjury?

Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?

Moreover so since one of the SS-men from the camp (Otto Horn)
picked up Demjanjuk from a photographic line-up as being "Ivan"?

# Or is that a silly question?

You're joking, right?

Soon, you'll be asking if your claim below is silly.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep  3 13:20:59 PDT 1996
Article: 61946 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:27:26 GMT
Lines: 43

Matt Giwer still hasn't commented on the outright lie he posted.

To remind:

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep  1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
 Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
 Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
 Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT



In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
Holocaust - they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this
witness was lying.

Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
not Belsen, and he didn't say they were all gassed in one
night.

Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
my French.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep  3 20:09:56 PDT 1996
Article: 61997 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <50gg8i$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:49:45 GMT
Lines: 54

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# They have not been.  Care to post them?  A URL even?  Stop
# trying to fake it.  You are not good at it.

How do you know that none of the "euthanasia" chambers were
ever found? On what do you base this statement? Did you
read it somewhere? I'm just curious to know, in general,
what makes you say things.

I seem to recall that in Michael Burleigh's "Death and
Deliverance" there's a photo of one of these gas chambers;
I may be confusing it with a different book. I'll try
to check. I think it was in Brandenburg. If someone has
the book - I'll be grateful for help. I don't currently
have a copy.

# It is difficult to get through to a proclaimed PhD in CS
# who thinks spreadsheets have to do with word processing.
# You are a clear fraud.

Matty, what do you mean, exactly, by "fraud"?

Please, do not vent your anger, frustration, and inferiority
complex at me. I am not to blame for your life being a failure.

## Are you claiming it would have been impossible to get enough
## into a container to kill the people? Do you know how many parts-
## per-million of CO will kill a person? And if they needed two
## containers, so what?

# As I said, you have to know something about the subject first.
# As I have no idea what education you might have it is difficult
# to know where to start explaining it to you.

Your failure to reply is noted.

# I see. You are saying that when the program was described by
# holohuggers a few months ago as secret they holohuggers were lying.

Matty, the program was secret. But it's very hard, or impossible,
to keep something like this a secret for a long time. The German
population eventually learned of the mass murder of the insane
and mentally retarded, and began to protest; especially, the
clergy was very unhappy about the murders.

I routinely post here some letters about this, inculding letters
of protest from priests, and a letter from Himmler to Brack,
in which he notes that the attempt to keep the plan a secret
is not completely successful.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep  3 20:09:57 PDT 1996
Article: 62001 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229ef9c.2660182@news.inetport.com> <50ehns$190@juliana.sprynet.com> 
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:36:45 GMT
Lines: 55

Streicher? A truly revolting pig he was, and he finished at the end
of a sturdy rope.


Various excerpts from anti-semitic publications
[All taken from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington,
U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol. VIII]
-----------------------------------------------------------
p. 4:
[Speech by Julius Streicher, September 5 1937, reported in the
Fraenkische Tageszeitung]

The Jew no longer shows himself among us openly as he used to. But it would
be wrong to say that victory is ours. Full and final victory will have
been achieved only when the whole world has been rid of the Jews.

p. 7:
[Leading article by Streicher from "Der Stuermer" No. 39, September 1936]

The continued work of the "Stuermer" will help to ensure that every German
down to the last man will, with heart and hand, join the ranks of those
whose aim is to crush the head of the serpent Pan-Juda beneath their
heels. He who helps to bring this about helps to eliminate the devil.
And this devil is the Jew.

p. 19:
[Article signed by Streicher in "Der Stuermer", No, 12, March 19
1942, pages 1 and 2]

There were two ways which might have led to a liberation of Europe
>from  the Jews: Expulsion or extermination! Both methods have been
tried in the course of the centuries, but they were never carried
to a conclusion...

The teaching of Christianity has stood in the way of a radical
solution of the Jewish problem in Europe...

Fate has decreed that it was finally left to the 20th century to see
the total solution of the Jewish problem. Just how this solution
will be achieved has been made known to the European nations and
to entire non-Jewish humanity in a proclamation read out by the
Fuehrer of the German people on the 24th February 1942:

Today the ideas of our Nationalsocialists and those of the Fascist
revolution have conquered large and mighty nations and my
prophecy will find its fulfillment, that in this war not the
Aryan race will be destroyed, but the Jew will be exterminated.
What ever else this struggle may lead to, or however long it
may endure, this will be the final result.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62084 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Moran's 'Scientific' Nonsense (Re: McVay's litt
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net>  <322af4e8.2784752@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:28:59 GMT
Lines: 51

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
#  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## And you can? Like your claim that it would have made more
## sense to use "liquid HCN" than Zyklon-B?

# And you say it wouldn't? Try to explain it. Go ahead, try it.

I will let Dr. Peters do the explaining. Remember, Tommy, he
was the general manager of Degesch. The following is from his
book. Or, do you claim to know more about HCN and Zyklon than
Dr. Peters? You're a funny little boy, Tommy.

"the danger of the polymerization of liquid prussic acid, the difficulty
of transporting big containers: all this was overcome with absorbing the
liquid prussic acid in a suitable porous carrier material, and with
storing this material in simple but sturdy tin cans".

And more:

"The absorption in a suitable carrier material increases the durability
of prussic acid and therefore the possibility to store it over a long
time; its spreading in countless pores and over the large surface of a
porous material slows polymerisation, even when no stabilisator is
added.  Additionally, the porous carrier material facilitates the
transport of prussic acid. It can be shown easily in an experiment
that a tin can filled with liquid prussic acid only will burst open on
the ground after a fall of a couple of meters, while a can filled with
an equivalent amount of granular material soaked with prussic acid,
will only suffer big dents: the liquid in the can does not give way,
the granular filling may be compressed easily".

And yet more:

"Further, the absorption results in a reduction of danger because even
in the case of a damaged container, never a large amount of liquid leaks
out at once, but only relatively small amounts of gas; cracks, pores
and similar faults in the transport-material will result in loss of
prussic acid, which is unpleasent under technical considerations, but
not in accidents. Most importantly, the absorption increases the ease
of use of prussic acid: handling containers with solid contents has
more advantages than handling those with liquid content: granular
material can be spread more easily on surfaces than liquid prussic
acid: this is especially important for the quick evaporation of the
gas and for achieving a fast increase of the gas concentration".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62100 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A minor question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fsoc$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:51:02 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Why is that didn't discover anything peculiar about
# Auschwitz until after the end of the war?

Indeed, a minor question from a very minor person, and a lie,
too; certainly, it was known before the end of the war what
was happening in Auschwitz.

Does this mean that it was known to each and every person in
Europe? No; it may come as a shock to the Giwer, but there
was no CNN then. But, did the Nazis succeed to completely
hide the truth? No.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:01 PDT 1996
Article: 62131 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50ggri$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <50h0hd$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:15:28 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## There is plenty of physical evidence: some of the gas chambers,
## cyanide traces on their walls, large amounts of human remains
## in some of the camps, numerous documents, photographs.

# Cyanide traces are everywhere.

"Everywhere"? You're out of your mind, Matty. Seek help.

# No significant amount of human remains anywhere, even Babi Yar,

In Treblinka? Over a large area, to a depth of 7.5 meters?
In Maidanek?

# three possible documents if you are paranoid enough.

"Three"? Many more, of course.

# No photographs fo interest whatsoever.

Now, now.

# Are you a vegan missing basic proteios?

Relax, Matty. Have another drink.

# Your jealously is overwhelming.  Why do yo not retire?

Because there are people who are willing to hire me. Can you
find someone willing to hire you?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:02 PDT 1996
Article: 62132 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: IMT #11
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gnur$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:07:17 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

[Testimony about tattooed human skin collected by the SS
in some camps; Giwer, apparently, does not believe it]

There is no question that the SS, in some camps, kept
such items; one can see them, and the shrunken human heads
in Buchenwald, in the films taken after liberation, and
in many photographs. There is also a pathological report
proving that it is indeed human skin; it was posted here
quite a few times.

See photos in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:03 PDT 1996
Article: 62146 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gtv0$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com> <322CA4BC.2FDF@rio.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 06:55:47 GMT
Lines: 19

Yes, Chuck - Streicher was one revolting swine indeed. I recall 
that one short entry in Goebbels' early diary reads "... and then 
Streicher spoke. Like a pig". Can you imagine someone so revolting
so as to make Goebbels, himself an arch-swine, to refer to him as 
a "pig"?

I wonder if the last sound he made, when dangling from the
rope, was a little pig squeal.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:04 PDT 1996
Article: 62154 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50gqqo$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:08:32 GMT
Lines: 21

rblackmore@juno.com (who also uses the "jbellings" alias), writes:

# At Bergen-Belsen, 13,000 deaths occurred in a six week period
# following the liberation.  Between April 30 and June 16, 1945, 
# 2,466 deaths were recorded, with diminishing numbers thereafter.  
# Deaths were due to typhus, tuberculosis, malnutrition, dysentery 
# and other causes. And I suppose Kramer is responsible for all
# that too?

Yes, of course; he and the other Nazis. They tortured, mistreated,
and starved these people to such an extent that they died later.

If person X shoots person Y, and Y dies after a month in the
hospital because of the gunshot wound, X is still guilty of
murder. What, exactly, do you fail to understand?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 07:05:04 PDT 1996
Article: 62186 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <3229C0C8.9C7@kaiwan.com>  <50ggri$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:33:53 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Have you found any physical evidence for it yet?  The
# world is waiting.

There is plenty of physical evidence: some of the gas chambers,
cyanide traces on their walls, large amounts of human remains
in some of the camps, numerous documents, photographs.

Why don't you find a job? You're boring, Matty. I don't think
this very early retirement was a good idea. You're really
going down the tubes.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 09:23:29 PDT 1996
Article: 138573 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!news.zeitgeist.net!news.ecis.com!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:49:50 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 09:28:56 PDT 1996
Article: 62229 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!marlin.ucsf.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Troll Parades His Ignorance and 
Message-ID: 
Foolishness: Diesel Engines Summary: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50h5uj$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <50ikjb$8sv@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:48:00 GMT
Lines: 16

rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

# Documentation of this ?

He's talking about Yichya Ayash, who masterminded some
of the attacks on civilian buses in Israel, and also
prepared the bombs. Ayash was killed when a small
explosive charge hidden in his cellular phone exploded
and blew half of his head off. 

No one took responsibility for this action.


-Danny Keren.
   



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 12:55:38 PDT 1996
Article: 62302 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50jl1k$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:25:15 GMT
Lines: 26

It's hilarious to see poor old Giwer try to get away with
an outright lie he posted. This is one lie he simply cannot
defend. And it's driving him bonkers.

Matty, it's very simple. You posted:



In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Name the witness, Matty. That's all. If you don't, it means
you lied. That's it.

You claimed this witness, this Jewish physician, was a 
living person, who gave this testimony. Post his name.
That's it. A fair request, I think.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 16:49:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62320 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50jo14$6n3@morgana.netcom.net.uk> <50jtbd$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:47:55 GMT
Lines: 20

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To amcl@netcomuk.co.uk (Angus M. McLellan)]

# For mongoloid idiots like you, I have never read Butz.

But remember folks, "revisionists" never call anybody names.

GET A JOB, GIWER, YOU SORRY UNEMPLOYED BUM.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 16:49:49 PDT 1996
Article: 62321 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <322C9C17.22AA@rio.com> <4SEP199606073620@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:54:05 GMT
Lines: 13

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:

# Is there corresponding evidence that Demjanjuk was guilty?

He was trained in Travniki and stationed in Sobibor. His photo
was picked by a few survivors and an SS-man as that of "Ivan".

Either he's indeed Ivan, or he sure looks like him. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 16:49:50 PDT 1996
Article: 62323 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50jl1k$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <322dc0a8.9201753@news.spry.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:54:10 GMT
Lines: 34

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

# The defense was not permitted to challenge
# witnesses in those trials.

Another outright lie from "revisionist scholar" Matt Giwer.

The defense was very much permitted to challenge the
witnesses; one just needs to look at "The Belsen Trial".

A random sample, page 136; the witness Sompolinski is
cross-examined by Major Winwood:

 "You allege that two friends were shot by [commandant of
Birkenau and later Belsen] Kramer. When did you think of
this story?"

 "When I was wounded myself"

 "I suggest that you first thought of this story about five
minutes before you mentioned it?"

 "That is not true".



Matty, what do you have to say for yourself? You are, indeed,
an ugly, revolting, deplorable liar. Do you think that posting
all these lies increases the chance that someone will ever
hire you (except for the IHR that is)?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 16:49:50 PDT 1996
Article: 62343 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50jgsh$1b7@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:09:59 GMT
Lines: 21

rblackmore@juno.com (aka jbellings), writes:

# Mr. Keren-I don't know why, but I expected more from you.
# Are you suggesting, as apparently you are-that Streicher
# deserved death simply because of what he wrote as quoted
# above, or similar statements?

Not an easy question. Would I have sentenced Streicher to
the rope, had I been the judge? It's very possible that I
would not have.

But, regardless of that, he was indeed one revolting
swine; and I still bet that the last sound he made, while
dangling, was a little pig squeal.

Are you a happier person now, or did I disappoint you
once again?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 16:49:51 PDT 1996
Article: 62354 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news.accessone.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com>   <50h1au$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:19:34 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

I will try and look for the Burleigh book.

# You simply are not what yuo claim to be.  That makes
# you a fraud.

Please be more specific. This is still too vague.

# Post the URL.  No gas chambers, no bodies,

Plenty of gas chambers, Matty, and plenty of human remains.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 16:49:52 PDT 1996
Article: 62377 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50h0hd$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <50jrcm$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:42:22 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Fumigation was everywhere, traces are everywhere.

Nope. Factually incorrect. Sorry about that.

# Why would I hire someone who lies about his degree
# field? And if not lying your are not qualified in CS.

Matty, it's not my fault that your life has been a 
failure; that you're a loser, a hateful, unemployed
bum, who hates himself and everybody else. You may
hate me - that's your right - but don't blame me for
your life being what it is. It ain't my fault, Matty.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep  4 23:30:12 PDT 1996
Article: 62460 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!newsrelay.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <50jjd9$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:18:19 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?

# He was not in the camp described.  Therefore they lied.
# What is so hard about that?

Correction: it was not possible to prove beyond a reasonable
doubt that he was in Treblinka.

You say he wasn't. But you also said that Belsen camp was
in Poland.

## Moreover so since one of the SS-men from the camp (Otto Horn)
## picked up Demjanjuk from a photographic line-up as being "Ivan"?

# So what?

"So what"? As Peggy Bundy says, "you ARE an idiot", Matty. 

# Fact is, everyone who identified his is a lying Jew.

Including the SS-man Otto Horn? He's also a Jew?

You're going down the tubes, Matty. Find a job, and do something
useful for mankind. This early retirement didn't do you any
good.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:43 PDT 1996
Article: 62470 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flaming Kremas
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508f15$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <50gntm$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:05:39 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

[About Mike Stein's conversation with a crematory operator,
who told him that flames can definitely come out of a crematorium
chimney]

# But I did read that one.  What he left out was the damage done
# to the chimney but that is neither surprising nor unexpected.  

But the Birkenau chimneys were, indeed, damaged. See "Anatomy Of
the Auschwitz Death Camp". p. 197. 

# Nor is that fact I have have driven passed a particular
# crematorium hundreds of times at all times of the day and night
# and have never seen such a thing.  

Because they are not run like the ones in Birkenau were run,
that is, they don't have to cope with burning such a huge
number of corpses.

# And in addition, we have the admission of those who have
# described those flames that they were lying, made it all up.

We have nothing of the sort. You are hallucinating, once again.

You're losing it, Matty.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:44 PDT 1996
Article: 62475 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gnes$rdg@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:05:11 GMT
Lines: 20

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Concerning the above, read an excerpt from Louis Marschalko:
#
# "At the end of 1945, new inmates appeared in the concentration
# camp of Dachau.  But these were no longer Jews but some of the 
# defeated German people-the "war criminals".  They were ordered
# subsequently to build various additional auxiliary buildings with the
# greatest possible speed....the workers received orders to dig a blood-
# pit with a drain pipe for draining off the blood, because it must
# be made to appear that here Jewish blood had been flowing in
# streams."

I thought this was a drain near the place where people were shot;
isn't it still in Dachau? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gassed again and again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5092dm$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <50goti$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:07:49 GMT
Lines: 38

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Elie Wiesel was 14 when he started lying

You, Matty, started lying the minute you could talk,
and you didn't stop since.

# and was younger when he "witnessed" the geysers of blood from 
# bodies that can not be found.

He explicitly said that he didn't see them, but was quoting
a witness; we have been through this a few times, but then
again, if you weren't senile, maybe you could find a job,
right? Re these "geysers of blood", see

 "In March, 1942, Albert Hartel, a Gestapo expert on church affairs, 
was driving with Blobel towards a country villa outside Kiev used by
Major-General Thomas, the Security Police Commander.* At the Babi
Yar ravine Hartel noticed small explosions which threw up columns of
earth.  It was the thaw, releasing the gases from thousands of
bodies, and Blobel explained: 'Here my Jews are buried.' "

[From Reitlinger's "The Final Solution"]

So, I agree, "earth mixed with blood", would have been more
accurate. But the testimony is, on the whole, true.

# Anne Frank was 12-13 when her father lied in her stead or she
# lied for herself at that age, your choice.  But you know that.  

I know nothing of the sort. I only know that you are a low-life
swine, who thinks it's funny to joke about a young girl who
was murdered by the Nazis. I guess that, somehow, your defective
brain has extrapolated that she is also one of the evil Jooooos, 
who is "responsible" for your failures in life.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62507 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another 'Revisionist Breakthrough': NO WAR IN CECHNIA!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 05:37:37 GMT
Lines: 18

How come only I noticed this? Folks, what is ZOG paying
you for?

Saw yesterday, on CNN, that General Lebed gave a figure
for the losses in the Cechnia (sp?) war which is different
by a factor of 3 than what was accepted till now.

As we all know, a standard "revisionist tactic" is to
claim that when conflicting figures for the number of
victims is given, this proves the corresponding event 
never took place.

Mark it down, people. Another "revisionist" breakthrough:
"no war in Cechnia!".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:46 PDT 1996
Article: 62518 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50jl1k$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:28:11 GMT
Lines: 15

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Judges threatened witnesses with imprisonment if they did not
# admit to gassing in those trials.

Name the judges and the witnesses.

A simple, fair request.

Name them. If you don't, this will be added to the
list of your lies, which will be posted here.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:47 PDT 1996
Article: 62580 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: worth repeating
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50mfcn$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:22:20 GMT
Lines: 44


Matt Giwer still hasn't commented on the outright lie he posted.

To remind:

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep  1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
 Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
 Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
 Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT



In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
Holocaust - they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this
witness was lying.

Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
not Belsen, and he didn't say they were all gassed in one
night.

Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
my French.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62581 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50lua8$1sf@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:59:46 GMT
Lines: 45

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# The people at Belsen did not die from gunshot wounds-

Some did - most were starved to death, though.

# they died from being overcrowded by the thousands at the end of
# the war-thousands of people all crammed into a camp which was
# never meant to hold such inflated numbers-

No. They died because they were not given food, although
there was plenty of food. And because they were not given
water, although there was plenty of water.

# and Kramer is not to blame for that.  

Oh yes he is.

# He made a good faith attempt to do what he could for them, 

Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
should you care?".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



# why don't you stop distorting the picture further?

Why don't you say something which is not utterly stupid, for 
a change? You're starting to bore me, jbellings, or rblackmore,
or whatever you call yourself.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62582 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Can you question this answer?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322d78c6.1001502@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:04:51 GMT
Lines: 17

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
 
# Answer:
#
# Germany, France, England, Russia, Canada, United States and the
# Christians, to name a few.
#
# Question:

Gee, zeyde, I'm not sure...

How 'bout "what do the evil Jooooooos control?". Is this what you
meant, zeyde?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 07:28:49 PDT 1996
Article: 62583 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Burmeister Testifies About Chelmno Death Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:35:30 GMT
Lines: 35

Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were
told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
to be registered...

When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas
vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
van...

The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing...

I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
carried out the orders I had been given.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 09:13:15 PDT 1996
Article: 28501 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50kda3$klu@jerry.loop.net> <50kgaa$sr4@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <50m3bn$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:38:27 GMT
Lines: 17
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28501 alt.politics.white-power:42042 alt.revisionism:62612

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
 
# That is because, without cause, I was libelled in a manner
# that is worthy of being answered in blood.
 
What's this, Matty my boy? Yet another death threat? You're
posting about one per week, it seems.
 
Wouldn't it be better to try to find a job? You retired
at the age of 46, 5 years ago. Maybe, if you put all your
power into it, you could still find a job of some sort.
 
It may help your mental condition. 
 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 10:20:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62603 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Malzemueller Testifies About Chelmno Death Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:33:37 GMT
Lines: 40

SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant,
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in
his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert
Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof
[Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the
plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated.  We were to
keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have
to reckon with our families' imprisonment and the death penalty...

The extermination camp was made up of the so-called "castle" and the
camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the
edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had
been transported by lorry or railway were first brought...

When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando
addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer 
Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from
Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They
explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and
deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then
went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this
they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard
where the so-called "gas-van" was parked. The back door of the van
would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was
done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles
hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast
enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver
then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a
pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now
poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were
suffocated...




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 10:20:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62613 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <322C9C17.22AA@rio.com>  <4SEP199621281650@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:44:41 GMT
Lines: 24

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:

# But there is, what?  Seven inches difference in height? 

Is this known? How do you know what "Ivan's" height was?

# And the photos were picked out 50 years after the fact.  

The process started at 1981, didn't it? Also, were not much
older photos of demjanjuk presented? 

# And there is some evidence he was at another camp?

Yes, that's true. But many SS-men were at more "Reinhard"
camp than one: Stangl, Lambert, Franz...
 
# I am not asserting that Demjanjuk was not Ivan, I am merely
# asserting that there is some basis for reasonable doubt.  

Which is why the Israeli court let him go.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 13:06:25 PDT 1996
Article: 62652 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50kmaj$kl@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <50md1t$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <50mvh1$avv@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:46:36 GMT
Lines: 30

libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
# Matt  Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
## libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

### This is in addition to the fact that Demjanjuk's
### defense was based on his not being Ivan because he was
### actually a totally different SS guard at another death camp.

## Which makes everyone ever involved with the Mossad murderers.

# Wow!  There must be a logical link in there somewhere,
# but I can't find it...

I wish to offer my help; with all modesty, I consider myself
a leading internet authority on the Giwer.

My guess is that he means "you're saying that because
Demjanjuk served in a death camp makes him a murderer
because there were murderers in other death camps, so
that also means that since there are murderers in the
Mossad this implies that everyone who was involved with
the Mossad a murderer".

You know - it scares me to think that I actually 
understand what he's trying to say. This is not a
good sign.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 13:06:26 PDT 1996
Article: 62659 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: All mouth - No substance
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322b1602.11258361@news.pacificnet.net> <841882418snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 05:19:46 GMT
Lines: 47

Alexander Baron  writes:

# Actually, this is one of the biggest Exterminationist
# tricks. They make outrageous claims, lies,

Sigh. Al, who was it that blatantly distorted Hoessler's
and Bendel's testimony, quoting them as saying things they
never have - and later whining about it being a "mistake"?

It was you, Al. I wasn't going to mention this, but you
leave me no choice. I must say I'm disappointed; I thought
you were going to make more sense now. Personally, I have
a somewhat better opinion on you than on most of the Nazi
rabble that posts here.

# Does anyone remember the thread about the photograph of the
# gas chamber that was supposed to exist in action? This is
# mentioned by Reitlinger.

I have it; as I said, unfortunately, it's a rather low-quality
xerox copy. I am trying to get better copies. Takes time.

# Then there are the documents which are supposed to refer to
# extermination. They are all quietly forgotten now.

You're joking, right? This is just unbelievable.

Jager's report, about one Einsatzkommando killing, in one
area, during 5 months, over 130,000 Jews - is not proof
of extermination?

Wetzle's letter to Lohse, stating that Jews "unfit for work"
will be killed with poison gas, is not proof of extermination?

Just two among many.

Stop Giwering us, Al. I really believe you can do better,
else I would not have put a considerable effort into
e-mailing with you.

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep  5 13:06:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62660 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's 'Scientific' Nonsense (Re: McVay's litt
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net>  <322c2506.2723565@news.pacificnet.net> 
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 05:26:31 GMT
Lines: 9

Bloody incredible. It seems that Tommy Moran, who proved here,
again and again, that he cannot even handle basic arithmetic,
claims to know more about Zyklon-B than Dr. Gerhard Peters,
the general manager of Degesch (Zyklon manufacturer), and author
of a book and research articles about Zyklon.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62810 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <322C9C17.22AA@rio.com> <50mvh1$avv@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <5SEP199617510463@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:38:48 GMT
Lines: 13

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:

# There is some validity to this analogy.  I don't think
# we know enough about Demjanjuk to conclude he was guilty
# of much of anything.  

Didn't the Ukrainian guard Danielchenko testify that
Demjanjuk was one of those who "escorted" the victims to 
the gas chambers?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:28 PDT 1996
Article: 62863 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50ohc4$rhh@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:35:06 GMT
Lines: 37

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# See my STREICHER-EHRENBURG Post-You can't have it 2 ways.

This is, in fact, a point worth responding to.

But first, it is important to understand: the questions 
of "what did Streicher and the Nazis do", and "did they
deserve to die for it", are very different problems.
Personally, I am not that much interested in the legal
points, that is, questions of the type "was it justified
to hang the Nazis for the crimes they committed, while
Bomber Harris was not punished?". What I'm interested in
is the documentation of Nazi crimes and the Nazi ideology
that led the Germans to commit these crimes.

So, I don't really care for the question "was it justified
to hang Streicher?". If I had to make the decision myself,
that would be a different matter; but the revolting swine
was hanged. Does it bother me? Not really.

Finally, on your "STREICHER-EHRENBURG" analogy: there's a
very basic flaw in it. Ehrenburg's propaganda was
indeed hateful and violent - and I don't like it - BUT,
he was referring to an enemy which attacked his country,
regarded its citizens as "sub-humans", and butchered numerous
innocents. 

Streicher, on the other hand, propagated hate against a
defenseless "enemy" which was guilty of no crime, and
openly called, again and again, to butcher and annihilate
this "enemy". If you can't see the difference, you're
really crazy.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:29 PDT 1996
Article: 62867 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50jrcm$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>  <50m9mi$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:22:39 GMT
Lines: 31

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Your URL?  Your post?  Your anything to say that some
# places at A-B had no problems with vermin?

There are rooms in the complex that do not have cyanide traces.

This is elaborated upon in the report of the Polish chemists,
often posted here. I don't recall the URL right now. If you'll
mail Jamie McCarthy, I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.

Moreover, if the two underground cellars were indeed "morgues",
and both would have been "deloused" with Zyklon (as you claim),
then both would have had gas-tight doors. But only one of
them did. Why? Because it was the gas chamber.

# BTW:  You are still lying about your degree.

Why do you say that? Why do you have to behave like a
silly child? 

Matty, you want to contact Brown University, and tell
them that I "lied about my degree", and that they should
demand that I pay them back the salary they gave me as
a Ph.D research associate, for three years?

Can you PLEASE try to behave like an adult? 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62888 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50la5o$atm@Vir.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:08:24 GMT
Lines: 26

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# ZUNDEL SITE: http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/

Site composed and maintained by Ernst Zundel, who openly
admires Hitler, and also claims that the Nazi leadership
built "secret UFO's" and used them to flee to the inner
earth, via a "hole in the South-Pole". Zundel also called
to ban the movie "Schindler's List", and the TV series
"Holocaust" - which does not stop him from claiming that
he "supports free speech".

# G.RAVEN: http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/

Raven is another Hitler admirer, who described Hitler as
a "great man", and "the best thing that could have
happened to Germany".

# CODOH http://www.codoh.com

Which repeats what the above sites have, in addition to
some empty rhetoric.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62889 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Senility (Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50lpd3$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com> <322f4374.6312405@news.zilker.net> <50osgb$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:39:46 GMT
Lines: 34

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Only tales from the likes of Bomba the Barber with
#  around 100 people in a 12x12 foot gas chamber, 
#
# You would have thought Treblinka could have afforded a 
# larger gas chamber.  But then from his description of it, 
# we know 800,000 is impossible.  

Once again, poor old, senile, unemployed bum Matt Giwer
proves his ignorance:

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. 
Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
--------------------------------------------------------
 ...Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built 


Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
------------------------------------------------------------------
All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my 
estimate, about 300 people could enter each gas chamber.



Bomba's testimony is about the three small gas chambers; later,
the larger ones mentioned here were built.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50mdb4$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <5SEP199606222332@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <50ovbg$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:11:10 GMT
Lines: 44


Matt Giwer still hasn't commented on the outright lie he posted.

To remind:

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep  1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
 Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
 Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
 Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
 Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT



In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
Holocaust - they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this
witness was lying.

Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
not Belsen, and he didn't say they were all gassed in one
night.

Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
my French.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62897 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322B1A72.167E@itsa.ucsf.edu> <50m28c$1sf@juliana.sprynet.com> <322f44cb.6655434@news.zilker.net> <50ort0$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:27:36 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Because there has never been any physical evidence 
# presented that there was any mass gassing at Auschwitz.

By that logic, there has never been any physical evidence
presented that WW2 took place.

If you have such evidence, present it.

I will easily demonstrate that, using your type of
"arguments", WW2 never took place.

# The majority of the material is contained on the five 
# major revisionist sites, 

Run and built by people who claim that Hitler was a "great
man and the best thing that could have happened to
Germany", and by someone who claims that the Nazi
leadership fled to the South Pole using "UFO's", and
that they are hiding in the inner Earth.

Sigh. What a bunch of miserable drecks you people are.

# as opposed to the one shittly little disorganized Nizkor.

Yeh, yeh.

Find a job, bum. Find a job, loser.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62902 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508ffe$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50jmed$l6u@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <50o2qe$ok5@Vir.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:35:58 GMT
Lines: 17

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# Poor Bauer, he chose to deny the gas chambers in his camp

It's Baer, not Bauer.

I've seen this claim from you nazi-boys numerous times - that
Baer "denied the gassings". I've seen no evidence, no source,
nothing whatsoever to prove this.

Until you supply the evidence for this claim, you will be 
considered a liar. But then again, maybe you have no
problem with it. You're a "revisionist scholar", are you not...


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 07:23:33 PDT 1996
Article: 62909 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holohugging belief structure
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50on0u$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:02:28 GMT
Lines: 47

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Thus when true believers in the holocaust are faced 
# with lurid, absurd, and physically impossible claims

Once again, Giwer posts absolute rubbish. Apparently he
cannot do any better, in spite of his famous 163 IQ points.

"Physically impossible"?

Only if you believe in "Giwerian science".

Such as his claim that HCN will not evaporate from Zyklon if
the temperature is below 20 C. A claim as stupid as the claim
that there can be no humidity in the air if the temperature
is less than 100 C. 

Or his claim that diesel engines cannot be tuned to release
high concentrations of CO. But experiments prove that it's
trivial matter to tune them to release up to 6 percent CO,
while 0.4 percent is lethal.

Or his incredible claim that the amount of Zyklon necessary
to kill people in the gas chamber within 10-15 minutes is
"too much to carry on a ladder", while a trivial calculation
proves it to be less than 1 Kg per SS-man.

Etc, etc, etc.

Look at Giwer's argument below. How stupid does someone have
to be in order to think(?) of something like this?

Giwer is a pathetic, lying, ignorant, frustrated and hateful
idiot. But this is the sort of people who find "Holocaust
revisionism" attractive.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 10:46:29 PDT 1996
Article: 140778 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:52:36 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep  6 10:59:35 PDT 1996
Article: 62959 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:56:56 GMT
Lines: 36

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep  7 09:23:14 PDT 1996
Article: 63055 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder In the Ukraine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:11:02 GMT
Lines: 55

Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol V, pages 994-997]
----------------------------------------------------------------
The attitude of the Jewish population was anxious - obliging from
the beginning. They tried to avoid everything that might displease
the German administration. That they hated the German administration
and the army inwardly goes without saying and cannot be surprising.
However, there is no proof that Jewry as a whole or even to a
greater part was implicated in acts of sabotage. Surely, there 
were some terrorists or saboteurs among them just as among the
Ukrainians. But it cannot be said that the Jews as such represented
a danger to the German armed forces. The output produced by the
Jews who, of course, were prompted by nothing but the feeling of 
fear, was satisfactory to the troops and the German administration.

 .
 .
 .

The way these actions which included men and old men, women and
children of all ages were carried out was horrible. The great masses
executed make this action more gigantic than any similar measure
taken so far in the Soviet Union. So far about 150,000 to
200,000 Jews may have been executed in the part of the Ukraine 
belonging to the Reichskommissariat [RK]; no consideration was given 
to the interests of economy.

Summarizing it can be said that the kind of solution of the Jewish
problem applied in the Ukraine which obviously was based on the
ideological theories as a matter of principle had the following
results:

a. Elimination of a part of partly superfluous eaters in the cities.

b. Elimination of a part of the population which hated us
   undoubtedly.

c. Elimination of badly needed tradesmen who were in many instances
   indispensable even in the interests of the armed forces.

d. Consequences as to foreign policy - propaganda which are obvious.

e. Bad effects on the troops which in any case get indirect contact
   with the executions.

f. Brutalizing effect on the formations which carry out the 
   executions-regular police-(Ordnungspolizei).




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep  7 09:23:15 PDT 1996
Article: 63160 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50h2e2$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com> 
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 11:07:31 GMT
Lines: 16

schwartz@infinet.com writes:
# rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

## By the way, did you know that the eminent historian Bradley
## F. Smith happens to agree that the case against Streicher
## was ridiculous?

# EMINENT HISTORIAN Bradley Smith??!?!?!?!?

There is, actually, a serious historian named Bradley Smith; I
guess this is the Bradely F. Smith. The senile "revisionist"
clown is, I think, Bradley S. Smith.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep  7 09:23:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63171 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: reviewing the bidding
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50pa04$qvp@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 10:58:32 GMT
Lines: 34

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Bottom line, in case you have missed it, there is
# ZERO, NADA, ZILCHphysicla evidence for any holocaust.

A huge number of corpses were discovered after the war,
in the camps. The photographs are there on the Nizkor
site, and in numerous other sources.

Some of the gas chambers are still there, with cyanide
traces on their walls.

A huge amount of human remains were discovered in some
camps, as Treblinka and Maidanek.

The documents are there. Scans of some are posted on
Nizkor's site, and in numerous other sources.

The photographs are there. Scans of some are posted on
Nizkor's site, and in numerous other sources.

But for a person like Giwer, it is still not clear. But
then, Giwer's a rather odd person. See below.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 08:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63421 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Master of Liars? GIWER? 
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <50m7ju$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <6SEP199623180308@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <50tk5n$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:39:54 GMT
Lines: 39

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 08:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63423 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The importance of being "anti-semitic"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50qie8$6ds@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <50ra6o$fv9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:52:23 GMT
Lines: 24

To repeat: another reason that the analogy offered by 
the genocidal Nazi "kurt stele" is false - the attack on
the "Liberty" was a tragic error. The ship was thought
to be Egyptian, and the attack took place during the
3rd day of the Arab-Israeli 1967 war.

Errors like that happen during wars; just look at all
the cases of "friendly fire" during the Gulf War.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 08:01:17 PDT 1996
Article: 63428 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.bconnex.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Has Technical Problems
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:07:08 GMT
Lines: 17

Letter from SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe to Reich security office
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. I, p. 1001]
------------------------------------------------------------------
A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives
weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the
Security Service of white Ruthenia. The three S-vans which are there
are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another
S-van (five tons). At the same time I request the shipment of twenty
gas hoses for the three S-vans on hand since the ones on hand are leaky
already.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 08:01:18 PDT 1996
Article: 63494 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50la5o$atm@Vir.com>  <50t39l$m7s@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 14:15:41 GMT
Lines: 16

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# By the way, will you finally say to us if the small
# handwritten notification on this report which claim
# that 363,211 jews were liquidated in the east is 
# supposed to be Himmler's initials?

Do you mean near the top of the page, right, under
the "1942"? I don't know what this means. You may
check the full translation in the "Green Series"
or ask the "Institute for Contemporary History" in
Munich.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 11:00:24 PDT 1996
Article: 63498 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'About 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 14:34:14 GMT
Lines: 16

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent 
can be used for forced labor.
 

 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 11:00:25 PDT 1996
Article: 63504 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The importance of being "anti-semitic"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50l0a6$75f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <50ndib$165@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:25:35 GMT
Lines: 33

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# or the deliberate jewish massacre of over a hundred U.S.
# servicemen on the U.S.S. Liberty,

34, not "over a hundred". It is simply amazing that these
nazi-boys will *always* lie.

And it was a tragic error that happened during war time,
just like the cases of deaths resulting from "friendly fire"
in the Gulf War, and numerous other cases during wars.

# he is accused of having "an anti-semitic agenda"

You are obviously a piece of Nazi trash, as your quote
below proves.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 11:00:26 PDT 1996
Article: 63516 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder In the Ukraine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32319496.9645873@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:26:10 GMT
Lines: 25

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to
## General of Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941

# When convenient, claim the Jews did nothing to warrant or
# justify any of the alleged crimes committed against them
# by the Germans.

Tommy, you poor old nazi-boyish senile twerp. It is not ME
making that statement about the Jews not posing a danger
to the Germans. It is the NAZI OFFICIAL who wrote the letter.

## e. Bad effects on the troops which in any case get
## indirect contact with the executions.

# But what about "Hitler's Willing Executioners".

Don't know, Tommy. I didn't write the book. Write Prof.
Goldhagen and ask. I don't speak for him.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 11:00:26 PDT 1996
Article: 63517 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32317280.919279@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:17:13 GMT
Lines: 24

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Even though modern day cremation facilities take two
# and half hours to cremate one body,

Senility, Tommy, is a sad thing to watch. You must have 
forgotten that the sources posted here - taken directly
off the cremation web site - state that, when the furnace
is already hot, cremation takes less than one hour.

And, as has been pointed here numerous times, the Topf patent
of 1953 estimates 30-45 minutes for cremation. Topf is the
same firm that built the Auschwitz-Bireknau furnaces.

As for putting more corpse than one in a single muffle - there's
no difficulty about that; this will not be done during normal
cremation procedure, out of respect for the dead, but there's
no problem in doing it during "industrial cremation" as in
the camps; moreover since there were many children and infants
among the victims.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 11:00:27 PDT 1996
Article: 63528 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508ffe$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50o2qe$ok5@Vir.com>  <50t2vc$m7s@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 14:29:16 GMT
Lines: 36

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# Hi Pit

Hello shmegege,

# 'what leaves one to believe that he refused to back
# the extermination charge,

Not good enough.

Nor the irrelevant stuff from Butz.

# If you want to start this game I will call you a liar
# each time that you'll quote an exterminationist author
# and say that his statement his an a priori lie. How
# would you like it?

Whoa, I say, WHOA. Is this supposed to scare me?

I mean, do you really think I care what a bunch of low-life
Nazi scumbags thinks about me, or how they call me? This
guy is unbelievable.

I am still waiting for the direct and full quote from Baer
in which he allegedly denies the gassings. You have made
the claim that he did that; you failed to back your claim
with facts.

I wouldn't bother too much with this, but you naziboys
keep bringing this up here and there and I want to settle
it once and for all.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep  8 11:56:11 PDT 1996
Article: 63569 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50oisg$t8c@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:42:07 GMT
Lines: 32

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Good,  The pretense is over.  Show us your real face. 

Huh? 

# Now, as to the comments of the woman you quote:  "What 
# subordinate wouldn't attempt to blame superiors?"

This is simply not good enough.

# Most people would have said and done anything to regain their 
# freedom, as would have the inmates of Belsen...

Ditto.

# The water you mentioned was contaminated, 

Garbage. The Brits pumped them to the camp and they were fine.
The SS simply didn't bother. They didn't care that tens-of-
thousands were dying; after all, the inmates were "sub-humans"
to them.

# it's people like me who give you something to do with your 
# life....

Just like a disease gives a doctor something to do with
his life.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 08:20:13 PDT 1996
Article: 63691 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Malzemueller Testifies About Chelmno Death Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50ocnr$pao@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:59:23 GMT
Lines: 27

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Just curious:  What happened to Bothmann, Plate, Lenz,
# and Haeberle? Did they survive the war, and corroborate
# the staements quoted here?

I don't know; I recall that Bothmann was tried and executed,
but I may be confusing him with Lange. I'd check Reitlinger;
his book contains an appendix of some key Nazi figures and
a short summary of what became of them. I think that Bothmann
was high enough in the hierarchy to be mentioned there.

Some other staff members from Chelmno, who testified,
are Malzemueller, Burmeister, Laabs, and Schalling (who is, 
BTW, interviewed in "Shoa"). You can also look in "Nazi Mass 
Murder", Yale Uni. Press, which discusses Chelmno in some 
detail; it also mentions the revolt of the Jewish 
"sonderkommando" in which one SS-man was killed.

You could contact the appropriate German authorities and
ask, of course. Or you can do the Giwer and demand a URL,
because, as we know, in Giwer's world, if there's no URL
it means it never happened.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 08:20:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63712 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.new-york.net!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!blanket.mitre.org!news.tufts.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50m9mi$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>  <50nrli$n5u@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:35:01 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# As has been discussed in depth here, the polish 
# report is worthless as it has only one data point.

No, it has more data points.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/
institute-for-forensic-research/

# How do you know they did not?  How do you know any
# of them had such doors?  

The inventory list. It's posted to Nizkor's site.

Do you, finally, agree that Kremas II & III each had
two large underground cellars, referred to in the
documents as "keller I & II"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 08:20:17 PDT 1996
Article: 63716 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Always believe Russina Sources
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322CA5E8.5674@unb.ca> <50qejk$5k5@juliana.sprynet.com> <50vnsn$h4d@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:58:31 GMT
Lines: 15

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[About the two shrunken heads of Buchenwald inmates (see also
 on Nizkor's site, .../camps/buchenwald/images)]

# The shrunken heads of the "prisoners" were returned to the
# museum's South American exhibit from where they were borrowed.  
 
Will you do us a favor and post the source for this amazing
claim, Matty?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 08:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 63720 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3228dc01.245303398@nntp.ix.netcom.com>   
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:48:46 GMT
Lines: 63
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28900 alt.revisionism:63720

      Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
        Irving's extreme dishonesty and deceitfulness
      ---------------------------------------------------
 
Together with Robert Faurisson, David Irving is considered by
Holocaust-deniers as a "leading revisionist" worldwide. It is not
absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far 
higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).
 
Nontheless, it may be worthwhile to take a look at a typical
"Irving argument". Faurisson's "technique" of using outright lies 
and deceit was covered in a different article. 
 
In an article quoted a few times by "Jeff Roberts" on this 
group, Irving is answering Pearson, during his appearance as
a witness in the Zundel trial; Roberts' text (and Irving's)
is preceded by "#".
 
# Pearson [prosecutor at the Zundel trial] mentioned a report number
# 51 dated December 1, 1942, which mentioned 363,211 Soviet Jews
# executed over the past three months. 
#
# I can only repeat what I said previously,  said [David] Irving,
# that this was such an extraordinary document, that the figure
# was so unusual [...].
#
# "This document is very much an orphan," said Irving.
 
This is an outright lie; Irving cannot directly challenge the
document, so he tries to cast doubts by claiming it is an
"orphan document", not supported by other documents.
 
Being the "leading revisionist scholar" he is, Irving must have 
"forgotten" some other documents. His "orphan document" has,
in fact, many relatives; here are some.
 
1) Letter from Generalkommisar for white Russia, Kube, to Reichkommisar
   for the Ostland, Lohse, 31 July 1942. Reports that 55,000 Jews
   were murdered in the last ten weeks.
 
2) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
   Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941. Reports that so far up to
   200,000 Jews were murdered in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.
 
3) Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich, 
   January 31, 1942. Reports that, so far, 229,000 Jews were
   murdered in the "Eastern Territories".

4) Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
   in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941. Reports that, so far,
    more than 130,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi-occupied Lithuania
 
Perhaps Irving never heard about these documents?
 
Perhaps he did, and he's lying through his teeth?
 
Either way, he's a "revisionist scholar".
 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 08:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 63758 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT - sign on here
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322c56d3.6968993@news.pacificnet.net> <322ef64b.7254109@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:56:42 GMT
Lines: 10

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

# Three more names requesting to be put on the list of
# those endorsing McVay's statement about Moran's sister.

What is all this about, Tommy?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 13:18:36 PDT 1996
Article: 63845 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.campus.mci.net!uky.edu!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another 'Revisionist' Lie (Richard Baer)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:18:50 GMT
Lines: 45

Seems we can document another big lie from our "revisionist
scholars". A few days ago, Jean-Francois Beaulieu claimed that
Richard Baer, the last commandant of Auschwitz I, denied
the murder by gas "in his camp":

 Jean-Francois Beaulieu 
 Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
 Date: Thu Sep 05 22:38:06 EDT 1996

# No torture? Let just say that it didn't transpire if it
# happened. Poor Bauer [Baer], he chose to deny the gas chambers  
# in his camp and died in his early fifties...coincidence?
 


This is not the first time I heard this claim; I kept asking
our "revisionists" for a source, but never got one. Beaulieu
did post a hodge-podge of meaningless speculations, which
amounted to "I think that what Baer's wife said in some private
conversation may have meant that he suspected the gassings
never took place". Usually, the flat claim is made that Baer 
denied any murder by gas. This is a "revisionist" lie.

In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a 
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority".

Remember, Baer arrived at Camp I only at 1944; by that time,
there was indeed no gassing in Krema I in that camp - that
took place only in 1941-2, till the much bigger gas chambers
in Birkenau were built.

Since Baer was ill, and died during his trial, the "revisionists"
are trying to suggest he was "murdered" because he "denied the
gassing myth". He obviously did not.

So, we have another outright lie from our "revisionist scholars".
Interestingly enough, Beaulieu indicated that he based his
claim on Butz's book. What does that make Butz?


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep  9 13:23:08 PDT 1996
Article: 63845 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.campus.mci.net!uky.edu!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another 'Revisionist' Lie (Richard Baer)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:18:50 GMT
Lines: 45

Seems we can document another big lie from our "revisionist
scholars". A few days ago, Jean-Francois Beaulieu claimed that
Richard Baer, the last commandant of Auschwitz I, denied
the murder by gas "in his camp":

 Jean-Francois Beaulieu 
 Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
 Date: Thu Sep 05 22:38:06 EDT 1996

# No torture? Let just say that it didn't transpire if it
# happened. Poor Bauer [Baer], he chose to deny the gas chambers  
# in his camp and died in his early fifties...coincidence?
 


This is not the first time I heard this claim; I kept asking
our "revisionists" for a source, but never got one. Beaulieu
did post a hodge-podge of meaningless speculations, which
amounted to "I think that what Baer's wife said in some private
conversation may have meant that he suspected the gassings
never took place". Usually, the flat claim is made that Baer 
denied any murder by gas. This is a "revisionist" lie.

In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a 
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority".

Remember, Baer arrived at Camp I only at 1944; by that time,
there was indeed no gassing in Krema I in that camp - that
took place only in 1941-2, till the much bigger gas chambers
in Birkenau were built.

Since Baer was ill, and died during his trial, the "revisionists"
are trying to suggest he was "murdered" because he "denied the
gassing myth". He obviously did not.

So, we have another outright lie from our "revisionist scholars".
Interestingly enough, Beaulieu indicated that he based his
claim on Butz's book. What does that make Butz?


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64011 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32317280.919279@news.pacificnet.net>  <3232e6ab.1191103@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:45:58 GMT
Lines: 31

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# "Less than an hour"? That is for one body right? Is it 59
# minutes, 40 minutes, 20 minutes 20 minutes, 5 minutes or 5
# seconds.

Don't try to be smart, Tommy. You gave 2.5 hours. "Less than an
hour" makes you off by a factor of at least 2.5.

## And, as has been pointed here numerous times, the Topf patent
## of 1953 estimates 30-45 minutes for cremation. Topf is the
## same firm that built the Auschwitz-Bireknau furnaces.

# You say "as it has been pointed out" about the Topf patent, are
# you saying it was presented here, in English, or do you mean
# someone mentioned it?  

It's on the web, the whole patent. I am sick and tired of you
lazy buggers not willing to do anything on your own. You can
learn enough German to understand the part about the cremation
time.

# The name and URL of this "cremation website" Mr. Keren. Lets 
# have it.

http://www.cremation.org. Take a look there before you post any
more of your rubbish, you senile twerp.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:51 PDT 1996
Article: 64013 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508ffe$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50t2vc$m7s@Vir.com>  <50up9m$7de@Vir.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:06:42 GMT
Lines: 16

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

[Nothing relevant]

In the meanwhile, check my article in which Baer is quoted
as saying that the mass gassing took place in Birkenau. He
obviously didn't deny the gassings, as you lying Nazi
scumbags have - again and again - claimed he did.

NEVER trust a "revisionist". They have been proven to lie
so many times so as to render everything they claim useless.
Always check a reliable source.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:52 PDT 1996
Article: 64014 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Always believe Russina Sources
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322CA5E8.5674@unb.ca> <50vnsn$h4d@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <511du9$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:22:48 GMT
Lines: 29

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

## About the two shrunken heads of Buchenwald inmates (see
## also on Nizkor's site, .../camps/buchenwald/images)]

### The shrunken heads of the "prisoners" were returned to the
### museum's South American exhibit from where they were borrowed.

## Will you do us a favor and post the source for this amazing
## claim, Matty?

# It has been posted.

Not good enough, Matty. Answer the question, you lying,
stupid, unemployed piece of dreck.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:53 PDT 1996
Article: 64015 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for those who have any turther questions
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50m5pe$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <6SEP199622534830@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <510ppm$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:39:32 GMT
Lines: 39

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:54 PDT 1996
Article: 64062 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50tje2$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <51154b$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:18:50 GMT
Lines: 30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:86879 alt.revisionism:64062

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You must be thinking of Danny "the fraud" Keren.

Kindly elaborate. What, exactly, do you mean by "fraud"?

Are you suggesting I don't have a Ph.D? Then, why don't
you contact Brown University, and inform them? They have
employed me as a research associate, with a Ph.D, for
three years, and paid me accordingly. It is your duty
as an American, as a "revisionist", and as an unemployed,
retired at 46 punk, to inform them of your suspicions.

# I have never claimed a PhD.

Why don't you get one? You do claim an IQ of 163. And
you have plenty of free time, not having a job.

Go for it, Matty. We know you can do it.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:55 PDT 1996
Article: 64071 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3226edad.390461@news.pacificnet.net> <50m51o$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <50ub0d$cb0@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <5113lu$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:53:29 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

## Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence
## for this Dresden firestorm of yours?

# I have posted it.  Look it up.

None. Zero. Zilch.

You've posted nothing. By the standards of your demands
for "physical evidence" to the Holocaust, there is also no
evidence whatsoever that Dresden was bombed.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:56 PDT 1996
Article: 64075 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:47:14 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) whines:

# Actually I was posting a miserable lie accepted
# by the IMT.

No, you poor old slob. You posted testimony which
does not exist. No one gave that testimony. You
intentionally lied and posted a non-existing
testimony, which contains errors, in order to make
it appear as if survivors lied in their testimonies.

You're really a sick, revolting liar.

Again: if you claim the testimony exists, post the
name of the person who gave it. That's a fair request,
Matty, isn't it?

[Childish "satire" deleted]

You're still an unemployed loser, Matty.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:57 PDT 1996
Article: 64092 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism-white
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 960901: Germany attacks the Zundelsite again!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50lcrr$1nho@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <50t55s$1u9@star.epix.net> <3234778F.B02@maritz.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:37:41 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2839 alt.revisionism:64092

brownk.yc@maritz.com writes:

# Are we still at war with Jewish deception, lies
# ect. (YES we are)
#
# Are we winning this war?  YES we ARE!

You know, Hitler also claimed that he's winning the war,
nearly up to the point when he shot himself in the head.

# THIS DESTINY DOES NOT TIRE, NOR WILL IT BE BROKEN!

Oy vey.

# Deutschland uber Alles in der Welt!

Du bist dummkopf schwantz.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:44:19 PDT 1996
Article: 64160 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewrassic Pork
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5115mi$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:59:56 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# As reported by CNN Headline News on 9.9.96 under earnings
# of entertainers,
#
# Stephen Spielberg was number two for 1995 at $150 million
# dollars in earnings.

That's life, Matty.

Some, like Spielberg, have jobs.

Some, like you, retired at the age of 46. In spite of the
famous 163 IQ points, etc.

You're a zero, a failure, a nothing, an unemployed, stupid,
sick, vulgar bum.

But look at the bright side: you're a "leading revisionist
scholar"! It's good to know that, in this great country, even
stupid, senile, unemployed pathological liars like yourself
can still make a name for themselves.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:34 PDT 1996
Article: 64164 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:51:58 GMT
Lines: 26



Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:41 PDT 1996
Article: 64165 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Kube Reports His 'Work': 10 Weeks, 55,000 Murders
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:49:34 GMT
Lines: 26

Report from Kube, General Commissioner of White Ruthenia,
to Gauleiter Lohse, Reich Commissioner for the Ostland,
31 July 1942
[Quoted from "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg
 Military Tribunals", Vol. IV, pages 191-193]
 ---------------------------------------------------------

During detailed consultations with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner 
and the extremely capable Chief of the SD, 
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we found that we had 
liquidated approximately 55,000 Jews in White Ruthenia during 
the past 10 weeks. In the Minsk-Land area, the Jewry was completely 
exterminated without endangering the allocation of labor in any way. 
In the prevailing Polish Lida area, 16,000 Jews, in Slonim 8,000
Jews, etc., were liquidated. 

[...]

In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and
29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews - mainly old people, women,
and children - the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most 
of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin
in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:44 PDT 1996
Article: 64166 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'There Was No Longer Any Escape'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:50:38 GMT
Lines: 17

Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
any escape.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:45 PDT 1996
Article: 64167 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Wetzel Writes Lohse About the 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:46:59 GMT
Lines: 37

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 17:31:06 PDT 1996
Article: 64223 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.drake.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5124m5$rir@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <512gb8$315@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:51:40 GMT
Lines: 25

kurtzi, mein kleine nazi-boy, since you're back, how about 
answering some questions?

1) You claimed that using cyanide gas in the Auschwitz chambers
would "kill the German soldiers standing outside". I consider this
a truly idiotic statement, more so because there *are* cyanide
traces on their walls. Care to explain?

2) Even more stupid, kurtzi, was your claim that millions of
Holocaust victims should have left behind "millions of tons
of ashes". How is it, kurtzi, that someone like you - who
claims, again and again, to belong to a superior race - makes
an error of more than two orders of magnitude in such
simple calculations?

Will it make me "anti-White" to assert that you're a stupid
untermench? Please respond promptly, as ZOG promised me a
raise if I'm also "anti-White", in addition to being a
holohugger.

Sincerely,


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:37 PDT 1996
Article: 64337 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. "Stone?"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <510nkp$9iv@lex.zippo.com> <512ur7$krq@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:37:11 GMT
Lines: 20
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:42811 alt.revisionism:64337

Ourobouros wrote:

# The Einsatzgruppen which Rich Graves cites from
# Nizkor (which I have only skimmed) mention something
# about 137,000 "victims"

No, dummkopf. You're talking about one single report,
the "Jager Report", about the murders by Einsatzkommando
3, during July-November 1941.

But then again, you're the guy who wrote that people
can protect themselves against cyanide gas by holding
their breath, right?

Where do you people come from? Is this some Mengele
experiment gone mad or what?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:38 PDT 1996
Article: 64343 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @17:00
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5133k2$gi3@nntp1.best.com> <514ddn$3mk@nntp1.best.com> <514drg$3mk@nntp1.best.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:24:18 GMT
Lines: 47
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:8992 soc.culture.german:85674 alt.revisionism:64343 rec.arts.books:105037 alt.censorship:100255 soc.culture.british:115237 soc.culture.canada:98386

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

Unfortunately, Womack, I won't be able to attend. If you
go, please find out something for me. A British Nazi activist, 
and an ardent admirer of Irving, posted the following excerpt,
taken from the trial of Canadian Nazi Ernst Zundel:

# Did you find "any orders for the extermination of Jews" in 
# the archives of any country? asked Christie.
#
# "None whatsoever," said [David] Irving. 

Please, Womack, do try to find out how this is consistent
with the fact that Irving mentions in his book a letter from 
Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941, 
in which the order to kill Jews "unfit for work" with poison 
gas is given. To me, it seems like a contradiction. 

Maybe Irving will care to explain this document, and many
others, which clearly prove an extermination plan? 

Maybe he'd also like to explain his support for the
pseudo-scientific rubbish peddled by Fred Leuchter, a charlatan
who describes himself as an "engineer", although he only holds 
a BA in the Arts? (Leuchter was taken to court in the US
for this). Leuchter also describes himself as a "gas
chamber expert", although he never built a gas chamber for
any US prison. A few years ago, Leuchter was sent by Zundel
to conduct a "scientific study" of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
gas chambers, and, when he came back, he wrote a "report"
about them, which was endorsed by Irving. The "report"
sought to prove that it would have been impossible to gas 
large numbers of people in the gas chambers; it is so stupid
and worthless that "revisionists" have more-or-less stopped
using it (for instance, Leuchter claims that the cyanide
gas would "leak and kill the SS-men outside", while he
himself admits that cyanide gas was indeed used in the
chambers, as there are still cyanide compounds on their
walls). Why did Irving endorse and praise this worthless 
piece of pseudo-scientific rubbish?

Care to respond to these questions, oh mighty internet hero?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:39 PDT 1996
Article: 64378 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: TCA - ARSONISTS ATTACK REVISIONIST PUBLISHERS
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <512kk7$28i@news-e2b.gnn.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:12:50 GMT
Lines: 18

I wonder if this has anything to do with the war between
various "revisionist" fractions.

For instance, In a well-known (and hilariously funny)
incident not long ago, America's "leading revisionist
scholars" beat the crap out of each other, in the IHR
office in CA. I recall reading that Greg Raven, who
posts here often on behalf of the IHR, was arrested
by the police (maybe he'd like to respond, but he most
probably will not).

Anyone remember the "night of the long knives", in which
Hitler had dozens of Nazis murdered, during a battle
for the leadership of the Nazi movement...?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:40 PDT 1996
Article: 64381 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Mass Murder At Belsen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:41:44 GMT
Lines: 73

All excerpted from "The Belsen Trial":

Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner 
in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:

(p. 60-61)

We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.

[...]

I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
vast numbers - certainly five figures. 

You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
on the head.

(p. 62)

I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
hundreds were shot per day.

[1] Ethnic Germans ("Volkdeutche") from Hungary who were
    recruited to the SS.


Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to 
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.

Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:40 PDT 1996
Article: 64384 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @ 17:00
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Keywords: David Irving, censorship, free speech, San Francisco, propaganda
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5133k2$gi3@nntp1.best.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:36:43 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:9003 soc.culture.german:85696 alt.revisionism:64384 rec.arts.books:105044 alt.censorship:100284 soc.culture.british:115257 soc.culture.canada:98396

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

womack@nntp.best.com (Hal Womack) writes:

Ah, nutty old Womack is at it again.

Don't forget to mention that this "historian" is the
subject of admiration of the neo-Nazi movement world-wide,
and that he had been convicted in a British court for libel
and slander; a fine of 40,000 Pounds was handed. Don't
tell me you never heard of this, as I wrote you about
it some time ago.

# Mr. Irving began his US tour Saturday with a talk before
# the Institute of Historical Review in Los Angeles.

Which is run by Greg Raven, a Hitler admirer who stated
that Hitler was a "great man, and the best thing that
could have happened to Germany".

Is this a coincidence? What do you think, Womack? Try to
be coherent, please.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:48 PDT 1996
Article: 148936 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:22:19 GMT
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:51 PDT 1996
Article: 148938 of control
Control: cancel 
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:26:36 GMT
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:52 PDT 1996
Article: 148970 of control
Control: cancel 
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:26:24 GMT
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:53 PDT 1996
Article: 148973 of control
Control: cancel 
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
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Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 11:06:52 PDT 1996
Article: 64401 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32317280.919279@news.pacificnet.net> <3232e6ab.1191103@news.pacificnet.net> <50va3g$5mf@Vir.com> <32357427.2031510@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:18:48 GMT
Lines: 22

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# I don't think we have to spend too much time on responding
# to Mr.Keren, Mr.Beaulieu. He can squeal all he wants.

Of course. Poor old senile Tommy claims that modern
crematoriums take 2.5 hours to cremate a corpse. I post
in return a source which gives the time to be, for 
certain crematoriums, "less than an hour". The source 
also notes that, when the cremation furnace is hot,
this reduces cremation time by a factor of two.

And I cite the 1953 Topf patent, giving a cremation
time of 30-45 minutes.

So, my response proves that Tommy is either a liar, or
a dimwit who has no idea what he's talking about. But
this is well-known; why, indeed, should he respond?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 11:44:57 PDT 1996
Article: 64417 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. August Becker Implements National Socialism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:03:55 GMT
Lines: 42

Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16 
May 1942 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers by
putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small van and
two on each side of the large vans, such as one often sees on farm
houses in the country. The vans became so well known, that not only
the authorities but also the civilian population called the van "death
van", as soon as one of these vehicles appeared. It is my opinion the
van cannot be kept secret for any length of time, not even
camouflaged...

Besides that, I ordered that during application of gas all the men
were to be kept as far away from the vans as possible, so they should
not suffer damage to their health by the gas which eventually would
escape. I should like to take this opportunity to bring the following
to your attention: several commands have had the unloading after the
application of gas done by their own men. I brought to the attention
of those S.K [Special Kommando] concerned the immense psychological
injuries and damages involved to their health that this work can have
for those men, even if not immediately, at least later on. The men
complained to me about head-aches which appeared after each unloading.
Nevertheless they don't want to change the orders, because they are
afraid prisoners called for that work could use an opportune moment to
flee. To protect the men from these damages, I request orders to be
issued accordingly.

The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to
come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator
to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer
death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My
directions have now proved that by correct adjustment of the levers
death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted
faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer
noticed.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 13:50:00 PDT 1996
Article: 64436 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Dave Harman" Alleges Vague Threat On Milton Kleim By Anti-R
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199609070135.SAA02878@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>  <09SEP96.14484396.0075@IBM.UTM.EDU> <512cjl$k0l@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:59:58 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:29181 alt.politics.white-power:42872 alt.revisionism:64436 alt.skinheads:37166

bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) writes:

# I don't imagine very many "anti-racists" give a shit what
# happens to me, being blinded by base hatred as they are.

 Message-ID: <1993Dec16.083247.7321@msus1.msus.edu>
 From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU [Kleim]

> I am an admirer of Adolf Hitler.  I embrace National Socialism.
> I would do so even if the Holocaust *were* fact, which I
> honestly believe it is not.  I would do so even if Hitler and
> his system had killed *60* million Jews.



Why, who could *possibly* dislike someone who writes
stuff like this? Anyway, Milt, thanks for the quote. It
will be used extensively when discussing the true nature
of "Holocaust revisionism". A true classic.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 23:18:04 PDT 1996
Article: 64529 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: THE CRIME THAT DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50t14j$19d@juliana.sprynet.com> <511g15$d6r@morgana.netcom.net.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:30:21 GMT
Lines: 15

I have actually responded to the "STREICHER vs EHRENBURG"
posted by "rblackmore" (aka "jbellings").

While Ehrenburg's anti-German writing was indeed violent
and hateful, it was directed at an enemy that invaded his
country, regarded its citizens as "sub-human", and butchered
huge numbers of civilians and POW's.

Streicher, on the other hand, attacked and called to
murder a small, unarmed, unprotected minority which was
not guilty of any crime.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 07:33:58 PDT 1996
Article: 64570 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: JBelling is still a troll... Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <515rpa$6v2@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:16:05 GMT
Lines: 48

The "revisionists" often claim that the memoir of Rudolph Hoess,
commandant of Auschwitz, was "dictated" to him during his trial
in Poland. According to the "revisionists", the Poles and Soviets
told Hoess what to write. Naturally, they offer no proof of this.

Looking at the memoir, we see that Hoess writes, among other
things, that:

1) The Soviet POW's in Auschwitz behaved like a herd of animals.
   Hoess writes that they practiced cannibalism, and often killed
   each other for a piece of bread.

Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Soviets
would "dictate" something like this to Hoess? 

Hoess also writes that -

2) The Polish inmates were constantly engaged in violent clashes
   among themselves, while trying to reach a higher status in the
   inmate hierarchy. He even says that many of them intentionally
   infected others with spotted fever and typhus, which resulted
   in the death of the infected person.
   
Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles
would "dictate" something like this to Hoess? 

Hoess also writes that -

3) The total number of deaths in Auschwitz was about 1.2 million
   (a rather accurate estimation). But the Soviets and the Poles
   claimed at that time, and years later, that 4 million people
   were murdered in the camp.

Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles
and Soviets would "dictate" to Hoess a figure far lower than
the one they gave? Had they "dictated" his memoir to him, they
would obviously tell him to give a figure similar to theirs. But
Hoess not only gives a far lower figure, he also mocks the higher
estimates!

The obvious conclusion is that Hoess' memoir was not "dictated"
to him. The claim that it was is just one more insane
"revisionist" conjecture, unsupported by any evidence and
contradicting basic logic.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:23 PDT 1996
Article: 64695 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: FAX me an outline of your COCK!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5164h8$h96@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <517tph$44e@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:54:15 GMT
Lines: 13

libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:

# This poor woman is going to get a faxed tracing of Tom
# Moran's head...

And, I am afraid, it will be smaller than the other
tracings she will get.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:24 PDT 1996
Article: 64696 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:07:39 GMT
Lines: 161

(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).

All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the
Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
participated in the gassing operations).

Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by 
the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
1945 (p. 153-4):
----------------------------------------------------------------------                                       
The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with 
injections were begun in 1942.

"First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
phenolic acid".

First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart:
"I assume that the intravenous method took too long".

"Do you know who killed, where the murders took place, and how many
people were the victims of such injections?"

"I will begin with the number killed: I assume that about 30,000 people
were killed in this fashion".

First came infirm Jews, then other hospital patients, then people not
hospitalized, including prisoners "which the Gestapo sent in a round-
about way".

"Who did the killing?"

"At first Dr. Entress himself, then Klehr, and then - in this order - 
Scherpe and Hantl. Hantl did it rarely. We thought of Hantl as a decent
man and were surprised that he did it".


Testimony of SS men Klehr (p. 71):
------------------------------------------
"How did you kill these prisoners?"
"Well, like before. With a shot of phenol into the heart".


SS men Scherpe is asked about the murder of the Zamosc children (p. 79):
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to testimony by numerous witnesses during the pretrial
hearing, at least 119 children were murdered with phenol injections
in the closing days of February, 1943. Force was used to get them into
the executioner's chair, and Scherpe himself gave them the lethal
injection into their hearts. It was so horrible that the "medic" ran
away in desperation. The next day his colleague Hantl, a co-defendant,
murdered the remaining 80 children.

"You broke down and couldn't go on?" the judge asks.
"That is exaggerated. It isn't true".

Scherpe no longer wants to admit what he himself said earlier, that the
children, panic-stricken, had screamed.

"That is not so. I didn't say that. It is also not true. They suspected
nothing. They probably thought they were being inoculated".

The last boy waiting outside began to cry and called for his companions
who didn't return. And that was the only indication the defendant had
that the children may have feared death.


Polish physician, Dr. Klodzinski, testifies about the murder of the 
Zamosc children (p. 152):
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the afternoon came the order to kill the children. They were led
into the washroom, and told to undress and line up. And then Scherpe
came; I still remember that".

Klodzinski speaks of the dead silence in Block 20 at that moment; 
nothing was heard except thumps "- it was a muffled sound" - as the
heads and bodies of the slain children fell to the floor of the 
washroom.

"Suddenly Scherpe came out of the room and said 'I can't anymore', and
left. After a while Hantl took his place and and murdered the remaining
children".


Warsaw physician Dr. Glowacki testifies (p. 137-8):
---------------------------------------------------
"How many in your opinion were selected by the defendant [Klehr] on his
own authority?"

"He certainly selected and killed more than 10,000".

[...]

But the witness saw how Scherpe "personally administered injections in
Block 20. It happened during the murder of children from the vicinity
of Zamosc. There were so many of them that they had to line them up
between the barracks. Some of the children wee led into the area of
Block 20, where Scherpe killed them while the others were still playing
outside. There were more than 100".

He remembers this case so well because Scherpe had suddenly paused. "We
thought he was conscience-stricken and that was the reason he broke off
in the middle of murdering the children. I clearly remember him 
stopping. He left, and we never saw him again after that. Hantl took 
over. Hantl finished the murder of the children".

Stanislaus Glowa testifies (p. 183-186):
----------------------------------------
Glowa, like many of the witnesses who preceded him, tells of the 
"experimental gassing" at the end of 1941 in Block 11, of the slayings
with phenol, first at Block 28 and then in Block 20 of the prisoner
hospital.

"Klehr, Scherpe and Hantl regularly took part in the killings with 
phenol. But I would like to point out at this time, for the sake of
justice, if I had to set up a scale of responsibility, that the last-
named behaved like saints compared to Klehr".

[...]

The court also hears this witness tell of the fate of 120 boys from the
Polish village of Zamosc. Their parents had been killed, and the
children were brought to Auschwitz, where, after a few weeks, it was
decided to kill them as well. Work-detail leader Palitzch brought them
into the courtyard of the hospital on a February morning in 1943, where
the played and were given food by older prisoners. 

"They were hungry and frightened and told of having been beaten. All of
us felt sorry for them. Again and again they asked: 'Will we be killed?
Why?'. They had to wait a few hours to the end".

Prisoner-clerk Glowa sat in the aisle of hospital building 20, where
almost daily he crossed of the names of patients "injected" by Klehr
>from  the list of inmates. Not far from where he sat was the curtain 
behind which the victims had to stand in the corridor until a prisoner 
took them into the "examination room" where Klehr was waiting for them 
with his phenol injection.

"Scherpe and Hantl came in that afternoon, and they worked for a long
time. In order to shorten the terrible torment of the children, I would
take them to the curtain and tell them they are going to be bathed. The
first ones had screamed with terror in the room".

"Do you have children"? Glowa asks in a breaking voice, and then 
continues: "It was horrible. Why did they kill us? That is why I 
helped, to shorten the torment. After it was over I saw Hantl in a 
state of complete collapse". 




The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to
4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had
served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a
free man.

-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:25 PDT 1996
Article: 64697 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The strain on the furnaces was colossal'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:05:34 GMT
Lines: 53


Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt,
Germany, March 5, 1946
[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from  the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?
 
A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were
   done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" 
   [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.
 
Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?
 
A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders
   of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in
   spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn
   1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The
   forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the
   fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the
   intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the
   front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because 
   there were not enough workers.
 
Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?
 
A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time.
   I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages,
   which were being prepared for incineration.  That was at 10 in the 
   morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the
   conclusion that the furnaces were working well.
 
Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?
 
A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and
   the crematorium there was a connecting structure.
 
Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took
   place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
 
A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being
   liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were 
   subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.
 
Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
 
A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers;
   and he installed them.
 
Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?
 
A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the
   furnaces was colossal.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:26 PDT 1996
Article: 64735 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Where's Giwer?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:21:50 GMT
Lines: 5

Did the unemployed bum finally find a job or what?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 14:30:28 PDT 1996
Article: 64756 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Work Camp' With Five Crematoriums?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:52:33 GMT
Lines: 12

In continuation to the previous thread, I would still
like our "revisionist scholars" to explain the following:

Why does a "work camp" need five huge crematoriums with
52 cremation furnaces?

Did anyone ever hear of a "work camp" with such incredible
cremation capacity?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 14:30:29 PDT 1996
Article: 64759 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>  <518207$3an@Vir.com> 
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:43:06 GMT
Lines: 36

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

# Typhus continued to kill to a lower extent after 1942.

So why did the camp need four new, huge crematoriums,
completed in 1943? But you do know the answer, right?

But never mind... keep playing your idiotic games. You
must enjoy them.

Nice to see, however, that you don't post any more lies 
about Richard Baer. At least we have cleared that one.

# that this was done in the undressing room, they had no
# choice to remove there clothes and this was the normal
# place to do it.

What rubbish. You're saying a huge cellar was built especially
for undressing the corpses? They couldn't just undress them
in the morgue? They had to build this huge cellar, called
the "undressing room", undress the corpses there, and then
move them to the "morgue"... can you really be so stupid
to believe this?

It's simply amazing to see what level of insanity these
people reach when trying to distort reality. But Beaulieu
has not yet gone as far as Leuchter, who suggested that the
"gassing cellar" was really the furnace room, which was being
heated by the furnaces, and that Bischoff wanted the corpses
placed there so they "would not freeze"!!

What a bunch of crazies.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:21 PDT 1996
Article: 64962 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Roberts' and His Stupid Lies, Again (Re: Stumpy is easily a
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:23:59 GMT
Lines: 24

Jeffrey  writes:

# "I talked to hundreds of people who serviced and
# operated the crematoria," he continued, but the people
# who operated gas chambers were impossible to find "

You never give up on this stupidity, "Roberts"?

Stark? Bauer? Fuchs? Findeisen? Burmeister? Hoffman?
Kramer? Laabs?

Just some of the people who spoke at length about how
they operated the gas chambers?

Doesn't the fact that you continue to post a proven
lie, bother you? But then again, you're a "revisionist";
you're supposed to lie.

But you use stupid lies, which are very easy to refute.
can't you try harder, dummkopf?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:21 PDT 1996
Article: 64977 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: ZYCLON B - USED TO DESTROY VERMIN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:24:41 GMT
Lines: 16


Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:22 PDT 1996
Article: 64981 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1) HOMOCIDAL GASSING IS PROPAGANDA FICTION
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <92Q+TGAYqFOyEwUu@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:03:43 GMT
Lines: 14

Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943 
[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159]
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing 
cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
should be ready by February 20th.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:23 PDT 1996
Article: 64982 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:18:27 GMT
Lines: 11

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

furnace-capacity.jpg

Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:24 PDT 1996
Article: 64983 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1) HOMOCIDAL GASSING IS PROPAGANDA FICTION
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <92Q+TGAYqFOyEwUu@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:04:08 GMT
Lines: 21

SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:24 PDT 1996
Article: 64984 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:14:56 GMT
Lines: 9

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/
buchenwald/images

(BTW, compare the appearance of the German civilians living
near the camp with the skeletal corpses of the inmates).


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:25 PDT 1996
Article: 64985 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1) HOMOCIDAL GASSING IS PROPAGANDA FICTION
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <92Q+TGAYqFOyEwUu@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:57:40 GMT
Lines: 37

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:26 PDT 1996
Article: 64998 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Not this Rubbish Again? (Re: DIESEL GAS CHAMBERS A
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:45:34 GMT
Lines: 60

Now, now, "Roberts". We have been through this many, many
times. Good thing about it is that we now have these FAQ's...

You must be aware of the series of experiments, reported in
the Pattle et. al. paper, in which animals were killed 
with the exhaust of a tiny 6 BHP diesel engine. For some
other comments - 

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.

# There is none from a diesel engine.  Even you
# should know that.  

"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).

## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

# Not a diesel.  

Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong 
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is 
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios 
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the 
exhaust.

Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.

Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about.

The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:26 PDT 1996
Article: 65059 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BELSEN Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:31:15 GMT
Lines: 67

Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner 
in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:

(p. 60-61)

We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.

[...]

I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
vast numbers - certainly five figures. 

You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
on the head.

(p. 62)

I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
hundreds were shot per day.

Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to 
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.

Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".








From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:27 PDT 1996
Article: 65065 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem'yanyuk at Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <519ghn$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:29:48 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

Matty! You're back! I thought you may have found a job,
but, well, one has to be realistic...

# The cowardly Abraham Bomba was the head barber in this
# operation.  He tells a different story on Shoah.

He was in Treblinka, this testimony you're commenting
on is about Sobibor.

Why are you so stupid?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 15:22:03 PDT 1996
Article: 65134 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Victims and Murderers: Photographs from Belsen Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:44:44 GMT
Lines: 34

The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 14 01:28:53 PDT 1996
Article: 65301 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: MEN NEEDED FOR EROTIC GAMES!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <516035$2st@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:26:50 GMT
Lines: 11

# Hi!  My name is Wendy!  I'm looking for a few good men!  Well
# actually more than a few!
#
# I am 5'9", 115 lbs, with blonde hair, blue eyes, and....
# well...Im built.  I'll send you a picture!.

No use. Giwer will insist it's a forgery.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 15 17:47:19 PDT 1996
Article: 65900 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The more things change...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199609070135.SAA02878@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> <512cjl$k0l@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <517g6v$g2c@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:40:38 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:29649 alt.politics.white-power:43379 alt.revisionism:65900 alt.skinheads:37528

bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) writes:

[About his article of Dec. 1993, which I quoted]

# The seasons change, the fields change, moods change...even 
# "Nazis" like me, change.  

That's good to hear.

# But, it's apparent one thing still has not changed, and 
# that's the hateful hearts of some of my former (?) opponents.

No. If you have truly changed, my opinion on you will change
too - whether you care about it or not.
 
# If you want to be a spiteful and vengeful bird,

No, I don't; it's not my style. You can ask those on this
group who know me personally to some extent, as Jamie McCarthy
and Rich Graves. 

# Yes, I said the above, and as I've explained, I regret those 
# statements which were said in anger and resentment.  

Well, this is certainly a surprise for me, I have to say; I do
believe, however, that people can change, more so young people (no
patronizing intended - this is a statement of fact). If you
have indeed changed, that's good news in my opinion, and I wish
you the best of luck in your new life.

I can't tell, from the little you have written, what is the
extent of this change; which, if any, of your previous
opinions you still hold; but you have taken, it seems, a
step in the right direction. And the first step is probably
the hardest.

# But, it reveals a sinister vindictiveness on your part to 
# present the above quote, said long, long ago, when I had a very 
# different mindset, as though it represents something I believe
# today.  

Agreed. It would be interesting, however, to know what made you
adopt these beliefs in the first place. 
 
# Danny Keren remains a man driven by base, negative emotions...hate,
# resentment, vanity.

Not really, as this article should indicate. 

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 06:11:09 PDT 1996
Article: 65998 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Work Camp' With Five Crematoriums?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32389d78.1531089@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:53:34 GMT
Lines: 19

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# That might be good question if 52 ovens could be proven,

Well, Tommy, what can I say; this must be another "revisionist
breakthrough". So far, no one denied that the camp had five
crematoriums and 52 cremation furnaces; the excuse was that
this tremendous cremation power was necessary due to deaths
resulting from typhus, etc.

Is your denial of this a common "revisionist" view?

# and that they were used for cremating human beings.

They were used for baking bread, maybe?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 06:11:10 PDT 1996
Article: 66023 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>   <51bjbs$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:07:35 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# According to the Nizkor pictures the undressing room was
# above ground in K II and III.  

No.

# Nizkor also claims the same building was used for gassing at 
# K IV and V. 

Huh? Giwer has flipped.

#  So where are you getting this cellar crap?

Ask other "revisionists", Matty. No one denies that Kremas II & III
each had two large underground cellars. They can still be seen there
today. 

# You mean like the people who use the entire size of the LK for gas
# estimates and then claim there were two rooms in it when in fact there
# were five?  

Matty, the gas chamber was indeed partitioned into two rooms, but
at first all of it was used. I made the calculation for the largest
gassing facility - that is, for the chamber before it was
partitioned.

# Let me guess?  You want to major in math when you get to college.

Go to bed, Matty.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 06:11:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66025 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @17:00
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51b5s1$f5e@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:01:22 GMT
Lines: 30

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# There is no evidence the Wetzel letter was even sent or received. 
# A typewritten draft of the letter was presented at the Nuremberg
# kangaroo trial, signed by Wetzel at the bottom.  Wetzel was never
# called as a witness, and was declared immune from prosecution.

You're lying, kurtzi. Dr. Wetzel testified on 20-21 Sep., 1961,
at Hannover. He spoke at length about the so-called "gas chamber
letter" which he drafted.

See Prof. Fleming's "Hitler and the Final Solution", 1984 Edition,
p. 110-1.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 06:11:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66027 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <519op1$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <519s24$f6p@news.enter.net> <51bv9n$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:10:33 GMT
Lines: 15

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# He lies in calling it a mail bomb.

1) How large was it?

2) Why don't you post it and we'll decide if it was a mail
   bomb or not?

3) Why don't you GET A JOB, punk?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 07:05:19 PDT 1996
Article: 101189 of alt.censorship
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!RENTSERVE1!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @ 17:00
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5133k2$gi3@nntp1.best.com>  <51bcs0$dv8@nyx10.cs.du.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:01:34 GMT
Lines: 10
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:9221 soc.culture.german:86171 alt.revisionism:66044 rec.arts.books:105228 alt.censorship:101189 soc.culture.british:115582 soc.culture.canada:98660

nmonagha@nyx10.cs.du.edu (N.O. Monaghan) writes:

# It is not possible to be 'convicted' for 'libel and slander' in
# a British court, nor be fined for such. 

So what was he fined for? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 07:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 86171 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!RENTSERVE1!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @ 17:00
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5133k2$gi3@nntp1.best.com>  <51bcs0$dv8@nyx10.cs.du.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:01:34 GMT
Lines: 10
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:9221 soc.culture.german:86171 alt.revisionism:66044 rec.arts.books:105228 alt.censorship:101189 soc.culture.british:115582 soc.culture.canada:98660

nmonagha@nyx10.cs.du.edu (N.O. Monaghan) writes:

# It is not possible to be 'convicted' for 'libel and slander' in
# a British court, nor be fined for such. 

So what was he fined for? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 07:22:47 PDT 1996
Article: 66033 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <323a1532.5005095@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:41:07 GMT
Lines: 33

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Fifty two (52) cremas said to have been at Auschwitz. 52 into
# 4756 = 91 a day each oven. 91 into 24 hours = almost 4 an hour. 
# About one every 15 minutes. 

Not if you cremate more than one corpse in a muffle; an easy
thing to do, although it's not done in ordinary cremation, out
of respect for the dead. But that was no problem in Birkenau.

# Present day cremations take an average of 1 1/2 to 2 hours to 
# reduce just one body to ashes.

But the cremation web site gives "less than an hour" for some
furnaces, plus it states that continuous cremation reduces the
time by a factor of two, as the furnace is already hot.

Last but not least

"As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from the chamotte grid
to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards
the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left a furhter
20 minutes to be fully consumed, then the ashes should be placed in a
container and set aside to cool.... In the meantime, further corpses can
be introduced one after the other into the chambers." 

These are the instruction for operating the Topf furnaces. It is
clear that the procedure described above allows for faster
creamtion. Thanks to Mr. Van-Alstine for posting this excerpt.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 07:22:47 PDT 1996
Article: 66040 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:29:38 GMT
Lines: 32

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
## 
## furnace-capacity.jpg
## 
## Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
## crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
## in 24 working hours.
 
# Mr.Keren would prefer to direct people to some Nizkor URL instead
# of performing the service of presenting the stuff out here,
# directly.

It's an image file, Tommy.

# This is because he wants you to see the reference and say to yourself,
# 'Oh he has the proof' hoping you will just accept that on it's
# own.

No, Tommy. I want people to look at the photograph of the document.

# He knows the referred to evidence is absurd.

No, it is not.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 09:13:06 PDT 1996
Article: 66053 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <513avt$ehh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51aosn$96t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:57:08 GMT
Lines: 33

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# There is nothing contradictory or irregular about the
# bombing of Dresden, nor is there a case to be made against
# Dresden's occurrence.

No, no, kurtzi. For the alleged bombing of Dresden, we have

1) Wildly differing estimates for the numbers of victims
   (from 25,000 to 500,000).

2) Absurd "testimonies" (people "melting into puddles of
   melted flesh", or turning into "a fine layer of ash"
   although the fire didn't touch them, etc).

So, according to "revisionist logic", there was no bombing of
Dresden. Why don't you just give it up?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 09:13:07 PDT 1996
Article: 66057 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Take a step back and think about it..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51b6l1$f8f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:23:56 GMT
Lines: 44

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Look what we're doing.
#
# We're arguing with people who claim that Germans exterminated
# Jews with insecticide ("poison gas" -- ooooooh) 

Yes. However, the insecticide, Zyklon-B, releases HCN, a lethal
cyanide gas, used to this day to execute condemned inmates in
US prisons. 

kurtzi, you're claiming it doesn't work? Why not prove it to
us by breathing some HCN? Heck, I can promise you one thing:
after you do it, you will not be any more stupid than you are
now.

# in shower rooms ("gas chambers" --ooooooh).  

You apply gas in gas chambers, kurtzi. Just like in US prisons.
 
# Think about their claim.  How cheesy.  How utterly -stupid-.  

Prove it to us, by breathing some HCN. Go ahead. 
 
# Let us never lose sight of the big picture.

Tell us more, after you breathe some HCN. Go ahead, untermensch.
The world is waiting.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 10:59:58 PDT 1996
Article: 66078 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <511vu0$lg6@access5.digex.net> <842617901snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:19:13 GMT
Lines: 22

A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes:

[About Matt Giwer's lies]

# I think this is an honest mistake. 

No mistake, Giwer the liar intentionally posted a testimony
which does not exist. And the stinker won't admit it; watch
him choke on his lies.

# Dr Charles Bendel testified that at Auschwitz up to a thousand 
# people an hour were disposed of in the pits. That's a far cry 
# from 80,000 a day but it's nearly as absurd.

You also claimed that it's impossible to burn corpses in this
fashion, yet we have a photograph of corpses in Dresden being
burned in that very fashion. Anyway, since when are you an
expert on burning corpses? 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 10:59:59 PDT 1996
Article: 66087 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:28:16 GMT
Lines: 27

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# We have no had more than a few American citizens support the
# murder of their fellow Americans on the USS Liberty.  

It was an error. The ship was misidentified as an Egyptian ship.

It happened in the midst of a war.

Similar tragedies happened during the Gulf War.
 
# As such they are not really citizens but rather people who
# deserve death at best

At best?
 
# This include Joel Rosenblum as a traitor to the US.  
                    ^^^^^^^^^

It's Rosenberg, Matty.

Now go to bed. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 11:36:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66092 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <51c5te$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <51cbb1$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:34:27 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To Joel Rosenberg]

# Of course but he will kill you and if not my brother will kill
# you for even coming close.

Another death threat from Giwer.
 
# You fucking jew traitor.  
#
# You murdering Jews are all alike and you are not expected to
# be any different. 
#
# Should lightening strike my family JEWS will be named because
# of you. And of course I will have you on my better dead list.  
# And I am good at it. 

You're good at being a rabid dog.

# You are advised to spend your time playing bodyguard to my family.
#
# That is the only way you have to save yourself.  

This is, clear and cut, a death threat. I'm going to notify the
FBI and the Police about this.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 18:39:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66155 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem'yanyuk at Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <519ghn$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <51c5te$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:41:33 GMT
Lines: 14

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes to me:

# Gee, and I thought you had been admitted to grad school.

Yes, that was a few years ago. When you were still employed,
actually.

# Or maybe you are the criminal.

Get a job, stupid punk.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 18:39:17 PDT 1996
Article: 66163 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Women (Re:
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com> <51bjbs$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <51ke5t$n3c@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:55:49 GMT
Lines: 14

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Go to bed, Matty.

# I have.  With real women, nerd.

We demand to see the photos and the other physical evidence!

 :-)


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 18:39:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66164 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Kurt Stele': Stupid Nazi Liar (Re: How to S
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51b5kp$f4k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <15SEP199617412289@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:11:32 GMT
Lines: 36

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:

# Kurt Stele (which probably isn't his real name) once
# again demonstrates how little he knows about Jews by writing:
#
# The following article appears on the JDL webpage.  The
# JDL was voted the #1 voice of Judaism.

Indeed, kurtzi the little untermensch writes the most
outrageous things.

When Meir Kahane, the person most closely associated with
the positions of the JDL, ran in the Israeli elections, he got
*one* seat in the Knesset, out of 120. 

"The #1 voice of Judaism".

kurtzi is losing it. He's a desperate little nazi piece
of crap. He probably cries every night "why, why wasn't
I born 80 years ago in Berlin? Why did I miss all the fun?".


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 19:19:02 PDT 1996
Article: 66175 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <51cbb1$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <323a862a.3211799@news.srv.ualberta.ca> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:45:43 GMT
Lines: 47

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) whines:

# After all, just how much harrassment do you expect a
# person to take?

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 20:33:48 PDT 1996
Article: 66183 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!usenet.Hydro.ON.CA!news.uunet.ca!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <51cbb1$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <323a862a.3211799@news.srv.ualberta.ca> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:43:07 GMT
Lines: 51

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) whines:

# After all, just how much harrassment do you expect a
# person to take?

More "scientific hilites" from Matt Giwer:



 From:         mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
Message-Id:   <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this
>is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released
>within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh,
>in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent
>in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent
>to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself.

>There is more information to support the faster release rates;
>I'll post it soon.

 Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any 
release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.  And keep 
in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm 
enough.  That is, the second half hour would be another 40% 
of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour.



The stupid clown claims that, at a temperature of
20 degrees, no HCN will be released from the Zyklon.

Can anyone believe how stupid Giwer is?

Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN
evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far
lower temperatures than 20 degrees. 

His "claim" is more-or-less equivalent to asserting
that there can be no humidity in the air if the 
temperature is below the boiling point of water 
(100 Celsius that is)...

He is *so* stupid.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 21:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66193 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51i8qm$rqs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:43:31 GMT
Lines: 36

This is indeed very sad - no sarcasm intended - but the
attack was an error, just like the cases of "friendly
fire" in the Gulf War.

I can understand that people were injured, their friends
killed - and they seek revenge. I don't blame them. I do
blame the Nazi scumbags who jump on the wagon and try to
use this tragedy to their advantage. That a Nazi scum
like "kurt stele" tries to use this tragedy to spread
his propaganda is a disgrace to the memory of the Americans
killed on this ship. As the son of a veteran, I express my 
disgust at this.

The "deliberate attack" theory is a myth, just like the
myth that the Israeli pilots were heard talking in
English (!!), and telling each other "why were we
ordered to attack an American ship?". 

The ship was misidentified as an Egyptian ship. It was
not supposed to be there; no American ship was supposed
to be there. I have some material on this which I will
hopefully find and post.

To me, the most obvious evidence that the attack was an
error is simple: Israel had nothing to gain - nothing - 
and a lot to lose, by attacking an American ship, and
more so, by attacking it in the most transparent manner
possible. Moreover, when the torpedo boats approached
the Liberty, they didn't come firing, but signaling; Mr.
Ennes writes so in his book. Only *after* the Liberty
fired at them, did they fire back, including the torpedo
which caused most of the casualties.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 21:37:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66195 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <513avt$ehh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51aosn$96t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <51keb2$n3c@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:39:13 GMT
Lines: 31

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes to me:

# And of course the physical evidence of Dresden does not
# require one bit of personal testimony.

What "physical evidence of Dresden"? No such thing; you
never posted any. According to your "standards of proof",
the city was never bombed.

# No one cares about whether or not Dresden occurs.

Irrelevant. The point is that "revisionist logic" leads
to the conclusion that the city was never bombed.

# Get that through your little skull.

Get a job, you miserable failure.

163 IQ he claims, and he's been unemployed since he was
46 years old... what a schmuck this Giwer is.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 23:54:38 PDT 1996
Article: 66206 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Text of Flier to "Shut Down Racist David Irving"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32388E1C.2770@ix.netcom.com> <51c9gt$b22@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:36:51 GMT
Lines: 151

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:

# The ad hominem attacks on Irving, by yourself and others,
# are a good part of what contributes to things like the
# flier you quote, and eventually to violence.

I have pointed out, here and there, some of the amazingly
stupid things Irving had said in recent years.

I actually find the man fascinating. He had uttered some
things so incredibly idiotic that you have to give him
credit for hurting the "revisionist" cause to a serious
degree, and I thank him for it.

Here's a repost. Do read it - again, it's a true
"revisionist" classic.

(As to this boring fool "DvdThomas", or "agathist", or "bob
hunt", or whatever the fool is calling himself these days:
neither me nor anyone else on this group advocated violence
against Irving; you're lying as usual. I guess we're also
"guilty" that only 20 people showed up to hear the poor
schlemiel talk?).

An Astounding Admission from David Irving
*****************************************

I was rather surprised that none of the "revisionists" who post 
here - Gannon, Vicksell and Josuah - answered the article about
David Irving's analysis of the Eichmann diaries. It is weird that
they ignore the "leading revisionist" they admire so much. 

Irving admits that Eichmann wrote, very clearly, about the "Fuherer
Order" to "physically destroy the Jews". Irving speculates that,
MAYBE, the order was only to destroy "Judaism". Not only does he
fail to give any evidence to this, he also mentions, later, how 
Himmler ordered that Russian anti-tank ditches should be used to 
dispose of the bodies. So, was "Judaism" to be killed and buried in 
anti-tank ditches!? As the Gannon says, "GOOD GRIEF!".

I am waiting for a comment on this, and other admissions from
Irving which are included below. Here is, once again, the original
article.

------------------------------------

While cleaning up /toxic/waste, I ran into an article Gannon posted
on 15 June 1993, which is copied from _The Journal of Historical Review_, 
Vol. 13, Number 2 (Mar./Apr. 1993), and consists mainly of a lecture
"revisionist" David Irving gave at an IHR meeting. I bring this as
the best demonstration I have seen of what Holocaust denial is and how 
it works. All lines preceded by a "#" are verbatim quotes from Irving, 
who is analyzing Eichmann's diaries. The rest of the text is mine. The 
message ID, BTW, is <1vk9r0$jma@techbook.techbook.com>.


[Irving writes about Eichmann]

# He describes how in July 1941 (if you piece together the months and the 
# dates) he is summoned to Berlin to visit Reinhard Heydrich, the chief of 
# the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA).  Heydrich utters to him the 
# fateful words, "Ich komme vom Reichsfuhrer SS.  Der Fuhrer hat den Befehl 
# zur physischen Vernichtung der Juden gegeben."  ("I've come from the 
# Reichsfuhrer SS [Himmler].  The Fuhrer has given the order for the 
# physical destruction of the Jews.")

So, Irving admits Eichmann wrote that [SS general] Heydrich told him
that Hitler ordered to physically exterminate the Jews. What to do,
then, when confronted with the evidence? The way Irving tries to
wriggle out of this boggles the mind:

#    Well, if you look just at that sentence, we can say that you've 
# only got to change one or two words and you get a completely different 
# meaning.  If it wasn't "The Fuhrer has ordered the PHYSISCHE VERNICHTUNG 
# [physical destruction] of the Jews," but rather "die Ausrottung des 
# Judentums," you've only changed the words by a fraction and yet you've got 
# a totally different meaning. 

Irving goes on to suggest that, MAYBE, for some reason, *Eichmann 
himself* misquoted Heydrich, and that the order, MAYBE, was only for 
the "destruction of Judaism", which, he says, is different from the 
"destruction of Jews". Of course, he offers no evidence of this; it is 
pure speculation, as he readily admits.

What more can one say?

Here is a top SS officer, writing that Hitler oredered the Jews
exterminated; it is there, black on white. Since it doesn't fit with
Irving's holy axioms, he suggests that MAYBE Eichmann himself - not 
some "Holocaustomaniac" - changed the meaning of the fateful order. Even
When reality slaps him in the face, he continues to refuse to
acknowledge it.

Just before this, Irving quotes Eichmann's comments on his visit at 
Auschwitz:

#    Eichmann inspected Auschwitz.  He went to Auschwitz several times, 
# as he recounts in his memoirs.  He describes being met by Rudolf Hoss, 
# the commandant, and he describes several grisly scenes.  He describes 
# going past an open pit where bodies were being burned, and he says it 
# was an infernal sight, the likes of which he would never forget.  He 
# describes how the commandant, Hoss, tells him that they are doing these 
# things on Himmler's orders and that it is a sacred task that has been 
# imposed on the SS.

What was this "sacred task that has been imposed on the SS"? Irving
is silent on this. Hardly surprising.

Irving continues to quote Eichmann, who goes into some of the technical
detail of how the murders were to take place:

#    What else is there in the Eichmann papers?  Well, he describes 
# how, after Heydrich called him to Berlin and uttered this fateful 
# sentence about the Fuhrer having given the order, Heydrich said that 
# Himmler has ordered Odilo Globocnik to carry out this task, and that 
# Himmler had actually ordered that the Russian anti-tank ditches were to 
# be used for disposing of the bodies.  Heydrich orders Eichmann to go out 
# and check what Globocnik is doing.

Surely, a strange way of "destroying Judaism". I guess "Judaism" was
to be destroyed, and then buried in anti-tank ditches. Amazing. Amazing.

Eichmann witnessed some of the massacres:

# Eichmann then says, "I went out to Minsk, and I saw myself the mass 
# shootings going on."

Irving goes on to admit that the Nazis gassed people:

# He also describes -- and I have to say this being an
# honest historian -- going to another location a few weeks later and 
# being driven around in a bus; then being told by the bus driver to look 
# through a peep hole into the back of the bus where he saw a number of 
# prisoners being gassed by the exhaust fumes.

Once again, presented with this evidence, Irving does not deny it; he
just goes on to assert that not many people were killed this way,
because it was a "totally inefficient way of killing people". Once
again - no explanation, no reasoning, and complete disregard to 
the evidence. He doesn't even claim the gassing was stopped because it
was a crime, just because it was "inefficient".


I rest my case. Anyone who still regards Irving as a historian must has
a very strange view of what history is.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 03:36:37 PDT 1996
Article: 66245 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <51cbb1$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <323a862a.3211799@news.srv.ualberta.ca> 
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 20:40:13 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) whines:

# After all, just how much harrassment do you expect a
# person to take?

You're a pathological liar.

You don't have a job.

Everything you write about any technical subject whatsoever
is totally, absolutely, and completely false.

You are unemployed since you were 46, as you have posted
yourself.

You're the most vulgar poster to the net I've ever seen.

You can't get a job.

Your life is a failure.

You're a frustrated little zero, and you know it. Sometimes
it drives you mad enough so you start posting death threats.

You're a worthless piece of dreck.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66274 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51kedu$q46@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 00:02:15 GMT
Lines: 7

Sara, please don't mock rblackmore/jbellings for
correcting my spelling (untermench --> untermensch);
it's the only useful thing he ever posted.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:19 PDT 1996
Article: 66275 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Why Revisionists Today are Winning on A.R.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51hrfi$ma3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <15SEP199618125947@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <51k2aj$89q@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:32:04 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) babbles:

# Anyone who can be swayed towards the conventional holocaust
# story by claims of hearing maniacal laughter of pilots over
# the engine

Must say I missed the original article to which the Giwer
is responding. I guess it mentions German pilots laughing
when conducting starfing runs?

Matty, take a movie of someone laughing in a maniacal
fashion. Then turn the sound off. Then show it to a few
people, and ask them what they see.

I bet most will say "he's laughing".

Look at silent movies, Matty. You don't have a job. You
have lots of free time. I bet even you can tell when
the actors are laughing, right?

Did the original testimony state that the laughter
was actually heard?


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66277 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Why Revisionists Today are Winning on A.R.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51hrfi$ma3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51ie2e$go3@orion.cybercom.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 22:50:07 GMT
Lines: 15

amatthews@cybercom.net (Allan Matthews) writes:

# Hey, "kurt," if what you and the other deniers are doing here
# in alt.revisionism is your idea of winning I'd hate to see
# what you consider a serious old-fashioned pounding.

Allan: the "kurtzi" untermensch is just like his big hero,
one-balled Adolf Hitler. Even when the war was lost, and
it was evident that Germany had better surrender, the
crazy bastard kept dreaming that he will win. Read Joachim
Fest's fascinating book about Hitler.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66278 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com> <51bjbs$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <51ke5t$n3c@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:51:57 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# And at least have the honesty to admit that the undressing
# rooms in the aerial shots have shadows.

Post the photo and mark on it what you consider to be the
undressing room.

# Or are you now going to pretend you never posted an amount of
# ZB based upon the entire building size?

Sigh. Matty, the gas chamber (LK1) was 30 x 7 meters. It was
indeed, at some stage, partitioned, but for some time the
entire gas chamber was used. Since you claimed that the necessary
amount of Zyklon-B was too much for two men to carry on a ladder,
I calculated the amount required for the whole chamber, that
is, the maximal amount; 3 Kgs were enough to kill the victims
in 10-15 minutes.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66281 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem'yanyuk at Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <51c5te$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <51ko2b$2og@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:14:37 GMT
Lines: 11

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer), unemployed since he was
46-years-old,  writes:

# Why would I want a job?  What would I do with it?

I'm surprised at you, Matty. Don't you know what that
big sign in the entrance to Auschwitz said?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:22 PDT 1996
Article: 66296 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <842617901snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <51l417$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:54:34 GMT
Lines: 21

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# The pipes are still calling your Dannyboy. 

And you're still a liar who posted fake testimony. If it's
not fake, do tell us who gave this testimony.

But you can't.

# It is terrible to see a good Irish boy go this far wrong.

Hell, you had to tell everyone? Now ZOG will fire me.
 
# Please come back after you earn your BS.

Earned it when you were still employed, Matty. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 08:56:22 PDT 1996
Article: 66311 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The 'Best' Of Tom Moran
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:41:37 GMT
Lines: 18

Tommy Moran pulls his Streicher schtick:



 From tm@pacificnet.net 
 Article: 81079 of alt.revisionism
 
        Keep an eye out for these Hebrew characteristics.
Hebrews have a problem with controlling their body language. 
They either jam their hands deep into their pockets or fold their 
arms in front of them in a self hugging stance, to keep their
hands from flailing about. They also shuffle in place.
        Ah yes the huggems, the Larry King syndrome.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 13:55:58 PDT 1996
Article: 66390 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <51l7cv$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:10:57 GMT
Lines: 44

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
 
# As you have sided with Israeli murderers
 
Never did any such thing; I pointed out that the attack on the
Liberty was an error. Just like the cases of "friendly fire"
in the Gulf War. That's my opinion. That's also the opinion
of Robert McNamara. Is he also a "traitor who sided with
Israeli murderers"? 
 
# I have little so day to you other than to regularly point out that
# you suppport cold blooded murder when done by Israel.
 
So, it will be just one more lie you post. 
 
# You have sided with murderers. 
 
Nope.
 
# You are a murderer as was Ivan the Terrible.  
 
Odd. You do agree such a person existed and that he was a
murderer? I thought you deny the Holocaust?
 
# Sorry about that. 
 
Sorry about you being a crazy old unemployed piece of crap. Sorry
about your life being a miserable failure.

# You are a traitor.
 
Nope. You are a traitor to all the values this country
stands upon and believes in.
 
# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you first
# as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the US above all
# others.
 
Keep your wet dreams to yourself, Zyklon-breath. This ain't
Birkenau and you're not Dr. Mengele. Sorry about that.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 14:50:38 PDT 1996
Article: 66403 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51egmc$imm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51l2ms$1q7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:48:48 GMT
Lines: 29

ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) (Andrew Allen) writes:

# One would imagine that the security arrangements
# guarding these condemed men would be rather
# high, especially as the Soviet armies approached
# the Camp.  

They were.

# Oddly enough, the records and plans of the
# Cremas LACK any sign of heightened security.
# No bars on windows, on locks on doors, no 
# special fittings such as bolt holes.  

What plans? Who said *all* the plans survived? Who
said that every tiny detail would appear in the plans?
Every bloody lock on the door would appear in the plans?

# As noted in a posting of several days ago, Crema III
# was only watched by a small guardtower with
# windows that didn't open!

Says who?

You're really desperate, aren't you?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 17:40:08 PDT 1996
Article: 66423 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:05:14 GMT
Lines: 25
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:101391 alt.revisionism:66423 soc.culture.europe:47960 soc.culture.german:86291

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
 
# I want ethnic homogeneity and not nazism. Is that so difficult
# to understand? 
 
Yes. The fact that you support policies central to Nazism, while
at the same time trying to distance yourself from Nazism, is
difficult to understand - unless one assumes you're lying.
 
# You Germans can have your nazism and all your silly guilt as much
# as you want, as long as I can have my ethnic homogeneity, isn't
# this a fair deal?
 
It's certainly not fair to those you plan to mistreat and deport
because you don't like the color of their skin.
 
You're a little nazi swine. You're still trying to deny it, but
soon you'll start to like it. 
 
Yes, I know. If I say this in Denmark you'll sue me. Well, if I
ever get to Denmark, you'll have the chance. 
 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 17:40:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66427 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The USS Liberty Tragedy: Communication Failure
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:45:44 GMT
Lines: 21

.

              COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING U.S.S. LIBERTY


 ...During the afternoon of June 7th, the Joint Chiefs of Staff decided to
reposition U.S.S Liberty to move her further away from the coasts of the 
belligerent nations. In implementing that decision, a series of five
messages from JCS and U.S commanders in the European Command were directed
to U.S.S Liberty and other addresses. None of these messages had reached
Liberty by 1200Z hours on June 8th, 13.5 hours after the first message
was released for transmission. The circumstances surrounding the 
misrouting, loss and delay of these messages constitute one of the 
most incredible failures of communications in the history of the 
Department of Defense".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 17:55:27 PDT 1996
Article: 66455 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jew says "THE STORY OF THE GASSINGS COMES FROM A SICK MIND." 
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:34:49 GMT
Lines: 24

Jeffrey  writes:

# "I talked to hundreds of people who serviced and
# operated the crematoria," he continued, but the people
# who operated gas chambers were impossible to find "

You never give up on this stupidity, "Roberts"?

Stark? Bauer? Fuchs? Findeisen? Burmeister? Hoffman?
Kramer? Laabs?

Just some of the people who spoke at length about how
they operated the gas chambers?

Doesn't the fact that you continue to post a proven
lie, bother you? But then again, you're a "revisionist";
you're supposed to lie.

But you use stupid lies, which are very easy to refute.
can't you try harder, dummkopf?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 17:55:31 PDT 1996
Article: 66456 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <519v3j$mv7@arl-news-svc-6.compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:28:33 GMT
Lines: 16

100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:

[To stinking liar Matt Giwer]

# You were simply asked for the name of this physician.

The stinking liar can't post it, as no physician
ever gave this testimony.

He chokes on his lies. Had he been smarter, he'd
invent lies that were harder to expose; but he's
too stupid to do that.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 20:53:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66475 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Revisionists' Support Freedom Of Speech? That's a Joke.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:07:24 GMT
Lines: 37

My opinion regarding the attack on the USS Liberty is 
different from Matt Giwer's; I believe - and I have explained 
why - that the ship was attacked in the midst of the 
Arab-Israeli 1967 War because it was misidentified as
an Egyptian ship.

For that, Giwer called me a "murderer", a "traitor", and
declared that "were you at my back in combat I would turn 
and kill you first".

It's great to know that "revisionist scholars" are tolerant
towards a view of history which is different from their
own, isn't it?

Not long ago, a fellow from Germany proved that a certain
story about Soviet atrocities against German civilians could
not be true. In response, Horst Kleinsorg, another "revisionist
scholar", declared that this poster "deserves nothing better 
than to be hanged the same way the Nueremberg War Criminals 
were hanged. A meathook would be just right for him and his ilk".

And you have Ernst Zundel, probably the world's "most well-
known revisionist", who screeches about freedom of speech, while
simultaneously demanding to ban "Schindler's List" and the TV series
"Holocaust".

By far, the most spectacular article ever posted to this group
was the piece by Dan Gannon, the original nazi-boy "revisionist"
and ultra-spammer. It carried the text of Zundel's flier, calling
to ban "schindler's List", and was followed by Gannon's .sig 
"BANISHED CPU SUPPORTS FREEDOM OF SPEECH!"...


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 17 21:37:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66478 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.ececs.uc.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: KREIBERG THE 'HUMANIST'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:22:58 GMT
Lines: 30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.nordic:47080 alt.censorship:101424 alt.revisionism:66478 soc.culture.europe:47967 soc.culture.german:86303

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# I am certainly not going to mistreat anybody. I just want
# to see a few errors corrected. That is all.

Is that so...



 From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:58:14 +0100

Danish citizens would of course not be deported. However some
people will lose their Danish citizenship because they no longer
qualify ethnically. Having lost their citizenship and not been
granted a residence permit they will have their status changed to
illegal aliens and then treated accordingly.

 From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 21:09:43 +0100

Nonsens. However, these camps are supposed to inspire it's inmates
to leave the country as quick as possible. Therefore they should of
course not be too attractive.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 18 00:12:30 PDT 1996
Article: 66507 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BELSEN Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:30:10 GMT
Lines: 35


The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:06 PDT 1996
Article: 66588 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A crematory operato talk at Zunde's trial
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51ntrp$6g7@Vir.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:40:56 GMT
Lines: 44

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# In the course of his career, Lagac had dealt with over 10,000
# bodies in his work and had cremated over 1,000 bodies.

What did he do with the remaining 9,000 or so?

# If an operator attempted to introduce a body into the retort when
# temperatures were still excessive, a "flash ignition" could occur
# whereby the body would ignite be fore it was fully introduced into
# the retort. In such a case, the operator would be engulfed in
# flames from the burning body and would be unable to close the door
# to the retort. To put it simply, he said, "you can basically walk
# away and watch your building burn down."

There you have it, folks. More "revisionist" science. Legace is
trying to claim that continuous cremation is impossible, because
if the corpse is inserted into a hot furnace, it may ignite like
a napalm bomb and burn the crematorium down.

The folks at the cremation web site must have never heard this; they
write that after the furnace is already hot, the cremation time
is reduced by a factor of two. This obviously means that they
insert the corpses into a very hot furnace.

# Human bodies did not burn completely in open spaces. In 90 percent
# of the cases, it would be the epidermis or the skin that would be
# charred; maybe perhaps the limbs would be burnt, but the torso was
# very difficult to cremate.

Yet we have testimony, and a photograph, of corpses being burned on
large pyres in Dresden, after the city was bombed, in exactly the
same manner as the corpses were burned in the death camps - in the
open. Corpses are burned in India in this manner, BTW.

# He [Legace] also agreed that he had no experience operating in a
# system that placed no legal restrictions on how many bodies could
# be cremated, that had as its goal, not profit, but simply
# disposing of as many bodies as possible.

Good. His testimony is therefore mostly irrelevant.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:06 PDT 1996
Article: 66604 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51osep$f7d@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:06:39 GMT
Lines: 55

rblackmore@juno.com writes:
 
# A different picture from the scenes in Buchenwald and Belsen in
# 1945, after the allies bombed Germany into ruins, and capitalized
# on the horrors within the camps that their own policies helped
# to create.)
 
Absolute rubbish.
 
The attempt to blame the mass murder by starvation and other
forms of mistreatment on the Allies is preposterous for a few
reasons, among them:
 
1) The death rate in the "work camps", long before the end of the 
war (source: letter from Pohl to Himmler, "Trials Of War Criminals"
(green) series, Vol. V, p. 379.
 
In July 1942, the death rate was 8.5 percent.
In August 1942, the death rate was 10.6 percent.
In September 1942, the death rate was 10.2 percent.
 
This is long before anyone "bombed Germany into ruins".
 
2) The fact that there was plenty of food for everyone but the
inmates.
 
Look at the photos in 
 
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/                
 
buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians living nearby,
who were brought by the Allies to witness the horrors
of Buchenwald.
 
Contrast their appearance to that of the inmates:
 
buchenwald01.jpg
buchenwald02.jpg
buchenwald03.jpg
 
This is just one example; it was the same in the other
camps. The many movies taken by the Allies show the
German population, SS-guards, German soldiers all to
be very well-fed.
 
Also
 
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images
 
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
 
 
-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 18 15:16:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66639 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50c2d8$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  <51l30f$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 21:32:03 GMT
Lines: 20

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

# But the Cold War is over.  We no longer need Israel to sell
# us captured Soviet weapons.  And despite the fantasy, ALL
# captured weapons were sold, not given, to the US.  It was
# always a matter of profit.

Does anyone have an idea whether this is true? For instance,
the Soviet radar stations, which Israeli commandos took from
Egypt in 1971 or so, and the surface-to-air missiles captured
in the 1967 war. Is the Giwer claiming that they were "sold"
to the US? Or that Israel demanded money from the US for
allowing Americans the right to study them?

If so, there's no doubt the Giwer will provide us a source
for this claim?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 09:34:30 PDT 1996
Article: 66801 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51ps9a$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 07:04:07 GMT
Lines: 32

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# I have seen photos of prisoners in 1945 who look relatively
# well fed at both Dachau and Buchenwald..

No, they look *dead*, not *fed*.

A little "revisionism" there, nazi-boy?

Look at the photos in 
 
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/                
 
buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians living nearby,
who were brought by the Allies to witness the horrors
of Buchenwald.
 
Contrast their appearance to that of the inmates:
 
buchenwald01.jpg
buchenwald02.jpg
buchenwald03.jpg

See also

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/Belsen/images/

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/Nordhausen/images/


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 11:55:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66823 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51r0jp$9db@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:56:22 GMT
Lines: 44

Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner 
in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:
 
(p. 60-61)
 
We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.
 
[...]
 
I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
vast numbers - certainly five figures. 
 
You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
on the head.
 
(p. 62)

I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
hundreds were shot per day.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 11:55:33 PDT 1996
Article: 66831 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 99% of the story, 99% wacked out
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <324162a6.1655714@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:25:16 GMT
Lines: 35

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Under cross-examination, however, by defense lawyer
# Doug Christie in the Zundel case in 1985, Vrba back pedaled
# in panic and admitted that the book was merely an "artistic
# expression" which belonged to the "realm of a literary
# afternoon."

I don't see any reason to believe anything you nazi-boys
post, more so after Giwer recently posted a testimony which
does not exist.

Post the *whole* alleged exchange, not your interpretation
of it.

# (This is what happens when the Jews are confronted with
# cross examination.

And, now show us what an old Nazi swine does when confronted 
with a request for an original source. I'm talking about you, 
in case you missed the point.

# (It's certainly seems objective for the Yad Vashim Center to 
# admit that over half of the 20,000 survivor accounts are
# "unreliable" and "inaccurate",

Dr. Krakowski, as the old Nazi knows well, denies ever having
said anything like this; his letter of protest to the editor
of the newspaper was posted here quite a few times.

But then, the old Nazi's senility may have gotten the best(?)
of him; who knows.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 13:55:05 PDT 1996
Article: 66844 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: physical evidence
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51pbql$1me@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 07:38:38 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# The holohuggers are getting rather desparate here.
#
# For months they have tried to distract the discussion from the
# complete and total lack of any physical evidence of gassing during
# the holocaust.  

The physical evidence for the Holocaust is far stronger than the
physical evidence for other mass murders, such as Stalin's. It
consists of:

1) Large amounts of human remains.

2) The gas chambers which are still standing, with cyanide
   traces on their walls.

3) A large number of documents and photographs.

# The physical evidence of Dresden is so complete that it
# could be reconstructed without one bit of testimony.

All Giwer can offer are documents. The physical evidence for
the Holocaust is much stronger.

Give it up, Matty. This line of "reasoning" will really lead
you nowhere. Better just claim that the world was created
two seconds ago, with all our memories implanted, and nothing
happened before that. This makes far more sense than your "no
physical evidence" rubbish.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 13:55:06 PDT 1996
Article: 66845 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: quite surprising
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51ppjm$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 07:44:00 GMT
Lines: 11

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Quite surprising that no one has mentioned that in the
# 1920s the only way to get a secure job was through bribery.  

Er, ah, yes. And a happy "shana tova" to you too, Matt.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 14:08:20 PDT 1996
Article: 153765 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:38:45 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 14:10:50 PDT 1996
Article: 66862 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Mayer Gambit still won't fly
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32370775.13060451@news.spry.com> <51ohhr$iq6@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <51phue$o28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <51r1mt$im6@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:17:42 GMT
Lines: 18

schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard  Schultz) writes:

# When I was at Princeton, I knew someone who had gotten her
# Ph. D. in the history department, and she said that Mayer
# was very unhappy with being made some sort of "revisionist"
# poster child, 

The "revisionists", that is, Holocaust deniers and Nazi
apologists, are the scum of the Earth, and there's no wonder
they used Mayer's writings in a deceptive manner, just
as they misquote and selectively quote another zillion people.

However, the fact remains that Mayer made some (not really
crucial) factual errors in his book


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 15:30:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66876 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.midplains.net!news.mhtc.net!aonline!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!uw-coco!nwnews.wa.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51i8qm$rqs@newsbf02.news.aol.com>   <51rvp2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 19:49:46 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## The "deliberate attack" theory is a myth, just like the
## myth that the Israeli pilots were heard talking in
## English (!!), and telling each other "why were we
## ordered to attack an American ship?".

# You expected them to speak Hebrew?  Yiddish?

Hebrew, of course. You're really crazy to think IDF pilots
will be speaking in English?

## The ship was misidentified as an Egyptian ship.

# Which is absolutely impossible due to size, profile,
# antennas and flag.

Tell that to the American pilots who shot down two US
helicopters over Iraq.

Mistakes happen during wars. Period.

# You side with murderers.  You are no better than a murderer.

Let it be noted again that Giwer defines everyone who disgrees
with him about a certain historical event as a "murderer".

A fine example for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 16:25:41 PDT 1996
Article: 66886 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty Tragedy: Communication Failure
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51s875$bkh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:56:09 GMT
Lines: 29

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

## COMMUNICATIONS CONCERNING U.S.S. LIBERTY

[...]

# Despite your implication, that does not justify Israelis
# murdering Americans.

The point, which you apparently managed to overlook, is that
the ship was not supposed to be there; however, a "most
incredible failure of communications", to quote the report,
resulted in the loss of the messages ordering it to move
away from the war zone.

The attack was an error; if there was any "cover-up", it was
a cover-up of the fact that this "most incredible failure",
of the American Armed Forces, resulted in the ship being sent
to the midst of a war.

And the fact remains that, because my opinion on this
historical event is different from yours, you declared that
I am a "traitor" who should be executed.

Your "support" for freedom of speech is, of course, well-known.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 16:41:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66890 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net>   <51pvvk$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 07:12:50 GMT
Lines: 12

Giwer apparently tries to shift the blame, suggesting he only
posted lies written by someone else.

He still cannot produce the name of the person who allegedly
gave the "testimony" he posted.

At best, Giwer is a mindless robot who posts lies sent to him
by his fuehrers. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 16:41:12 PDT 1996
Article: 66891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!nntp-hub3.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net>   <51pvq5$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 06:57:25 GMT
Lines: 12

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes to me:

# After all, your entire ego is built around the job you have
# and the money you make.  You think it will attract females and
# get you layed.  

Matty, why this fascination with my sex life?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 18:44:58 PDT 1996
Article: 66896 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.europe,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Kreiberg's plans to deport Danish citizens
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <323F2532.268A@unb.ca>  
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:52:58 GMT
Lines: 14
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:30221 soc.culture.europe:48012 alt.revisionism:66896

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
 
## How about white Europeans who have adopted Islam or Buddhism?
## Can they stay?
 
# Yes.
 
This is sooo touching.
 
I think I'm gonna cry.
 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 19 18:44:58 PDT 1996
Article: 66910 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51r0jp$9db@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:54:57 GMT
Lines: 16

Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to 
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.
 



-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 01:15:51 PDT 1996
Article: 66984 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:09:23 GMT
Lines: 36

Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality 
and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of 
Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.

Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", 
ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. 

Nationality      Total   Released   Transferred  Liberated   Deaths
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Albanian           2         -           2            -         -
Belgian           46         1           3           33         9
Danish             5         5           -            -         -
German           447       208         100           45        94
English            2         -           1            1         -
French           156         5           4          137        10
Greek              2         -           -            2         -
Dutch             63        10           -           36        17
Italian           28         -           1           26         1
Lithuanian         3         -           -            3         -
Luxemburg         16         2           -            8         6
Norwegian          1         1           -            -         -
Polish          1780        78           4          830       868
Rumanian           1         -           -            1         -
Jugoslavian       50         2           6           38         4
Spanish            1         -           -            1         -        
Swiss              2         1           -            -         1
Czechoslovakian  109         1          10           74        24
Hungarian          3         -           -            3         - 
Stateless          3         -           1            2         -


Roman Catholic               2579
Protestant                   109
Greek Orthodox                22
Old Catholic and Maronite      8
Mohammedan                     2


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 01:15:52 PDT 1996
Article: 67004 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51ta0d$s8n@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 06:59:21 GMT
Lines: 22

rblackmore@juno.com (aka "jbellings") writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality 
## and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of 
## Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.
## 
## Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", 
## ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. 

# Here is additional info Mr. Keren left out:
#
# Document from the Public Prosecutor's Office
# Landgericht Muenchen II 
# June 2, 1933
          ^^^^

And your point is? Ah well, never mind...


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:31 PDT 1996
Article: 67022 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50c2d8$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <32407CE7.1095@unb.ca>  <3241B4AC.7385@unb.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:17:33 GMT
Lines: 19

Keith Morrison  writes:

# Obviously Eqypt would be a source when they switched sides
# between Nassar and Sadat.

Later than that, actually; crazy old Nasser died in 1970 or
so, and Egypt was still under Soviet influence for a few 
years afterwards.

Israel has been a major supplier of Soviet technology to 
the US, since it captured huge amounts of Soviet weapons, 
especially during the 1967 and 1973 wars.

I would still appreciate a hard, non-Giwerian source about
whether these weapons were sold to the US or given for free.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:32 PDT 1996
Article: 67026 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Document About Killing With Poison Gas Jews 'Unfit For Work
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:59:47 GMT
Lines: 15

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar 
Lohse, October 25, 1941, about murdering Jews "unfit for
work" using poison gas.

Translation in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/wetzel.102541


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:33 PDT 1996
Article: 67030 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty attack, no accident
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3241CAA6.3C67@halcyon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 06:07:03 GMT
Lines: 18

jim  (Jim Ennes) writes:

# No objective person who has ever studied this attack believes
# that it was an accident.  That includes Secretary of State
# Dean Rusk, JCS Chairman Admiral Tom Moorer, and a score of
# other senior US Government officials who are all on public
# record calling it a deliberate attack.

Yes, Mr. Ennes. But there are officials who believe it was an
accident, including Robert McNamara.

Anyway, with regard to the content of this newsgroup: what is
your opinion on hard-core Nazis and antisemites, who use the
attack on the Liberty to push forward their antisemitism?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:33 PDT 1996
Article: 67034 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: USS Liberty
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51tk45$lpi@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:04:39 GMT
Lines: 29

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# All of the old shit has been recycled one more time.
#
# There is no change.  
#
# Israel murdered American citizens. 

By accident. Happens in wars. Tragic and horrible, but
it happens.

And in the Gulf War and its aftermath, America "murdered"
British citizens and American citizens. By accident.

And in the 1956 and 1982 wars, Israel "murdered" Israeli
citizens. By accident.

I happens. 

It is again noted that, because I believe the attack on the
Liberty to be an error - that is, my opinion differs from
that of Giwer - he declared that I am a "murderer", a "traitor",
and that I should be executed.

Giwer's "support" for freedom of speech is well-known.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:34 PDT 1996
Article: 67042 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.europe,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Kreiberg's plans to deport Danish citizens
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <3241B2F1.62A9@unb.ca> 
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 12:05:13 GMT
Lines: 13
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.nordic:47089 alt.politics.nationalism.white:30291 soc.culture.europe:48027 alt.revisionism:67042

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# However in Denmark there are only very few Jews, and if
# it will not be possible to prove that they are engaged
# in activities that can be considered detrimental to their
# host country I do not think that they will be considered
# a problem. 

Soooo touching... he's got me crying again.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:35 PDT 1996
Article: 67057 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <51l7cv$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <51q5d0$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 07:27:05 GMT
Lines: 38

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[About the attack on the USS Liberty]

# That is siding with murderers as it is clear it was
# not a mistake.

In my opinion it was. I explained why I think so. Naturally,
you simply deleted and ignored everything I've written.

Mistakes happen in wars, whether you like it or not. They
happen today, such as in the Gulf War, although the technology
is far superior to 1967 technology.

In the 1982 war in Lebanon, 25 Israeli soldiers were killed
when an Israeli F-4 Phantom erred their armored convoy for
a Syrian one and bombed it.
 
Not long ago, two American helicopters were shot down over
Iraq by American fighters. 16 people were killed as I recall.
 
It happens.

The fact remains that, because my opinion on a certain
historical event is different from yours, you're saying
I am a "traitor" who should be executed.

So far for "revisionist" support for freedom of speech.

# Traitorous scum!

And, as you like to say, the horse you rode on. And
all the cavalry behind you.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:36 PDT 1996
Article: 67063 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: TEST [text flow]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 06:09:32 GMT
Lines: 21

SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:36 PDT 1996
Article: 67071 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.ibm.net.il!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51t3dr$pt7@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 06:44:18 GMT
Lines: 28

rblackmore@juno.com (aka "jbellings") writes:

# It should also be noted for the record that Kramer
# vehemently denied ever making the hateful statement
# ascribed to him by Ms. Ehlert,

Gee. That's a surprise.

Dr. Klein said the same about Kramer, BTW.

# I am inclined to believe Kramer on the basis of
# other factors.

Of course. I mean, folks, you go into a camp, you see tens-of-
thousands of emaciated corpses of the inmates, and you see the
SS staff, they all look like fat pigs. And there's hundreds of 
tons of food nearby. 

HOW on earth can you not realize that the SS tried its very
best to help the inmates? HUH?

You're joking, right, nazi-boy? Do me a favor and tell us you're
joking. The thought that you actually believe what you write
is scary.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 11:18:18 PDT 1996
Article: 78985 of talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: I urge you Mr. President Assad(photo for nizan) - tank1.jpg [1/2]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50i1bd$mks@aludra.usc.edu> <3234FB25.3853@netvision.net.il> <514j06$8l1@everest.vol.it> <51pn1k$pll@news.NetVision.net.il>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 11:11:54 GMT
Lines: 26

nimrat_d@netvision.net.il (Nizan)  writes:

# 2. As I recall, in 1973, It was an American Jewish (Kissinger)
# that saved the ass of the 2nd batalion, was'nt it ?

The 3rd Army, not the 2nd battalion.
 
# 3. You and I (& every-1 know that if the IDF had another 3
# days, he could arrive to Cairo.

The situation was even worse on the Syrian front; look at Assad's
letter to Sadat, and Sadat's response, quoted, as I recall, in
Sadat's autobiography. Assad begged the Egyptians to keep
fighting, for he feared the whole might of the IDF be turned
on him. Sadat wrote in his response, as I recall, that he has
to accept a cease-fire because "I am not willing to be responsible
for the destruction of our armed forces once again".

# 4. As you surely remember, the peace tlaks took place in "The
# 102 kilimemter" (from Cairo.

The 101 Kilometer.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 11:43:24 PDT 1996
Article: 153930 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:34:03 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 11:46:38 PDT 1996
Article: 67085 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:21:17 GMT
Lines: 35

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/
images/Rascher1.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rascher.sigmund/
images/Rascher2.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Rascher to Reichsfuehrer Himmler, 
suggesting to use the Dachau gassing facilities to test "combat 
gases" on inmates. Page 2 contains the following: translation 
courtesy of John Morris.

  Wie Sie wissen, wird im KL Dachau dieselbe Einricht[ung] wie
  in Linz gebaut. Nachdem die "Invalidentransporte" sowieso in
  bestimmten Kammern enden, frage ich, ob nicht in diesen Kammern
  an der sowieso dazu bestimmten Personen die Wirkung unserer
  verschiedenen Kampfgase erprobt werden kann? Bis jetzt liegen
  nur Tierversuche bezw. Berichte ueber Unfaelle bei Herrstellung
  dieser Gase vor. Wegen dieses Absatzes schicke ich den Brief
  als "Geheimsache."

  [As you know, the very same equipment is in the concentration
  camp at Dachau as was used at Linz [Hartheim]. Whereas the
  "invalid transports" end up in certain chambers [at Linz]
  anyway, I ask whether we cannot test some of our various
  combat gases on specific persons who are involved in the 
  action. Up till now there have only been animal tests
  or accounts of accidental deaths in the manufacture of these
  gases. Because of this paragraph, I have sent this letter
  marked  "Secret"].




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 11:46:38 PDT 1996
Article: 67088 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'There Was No Longer Any Escape'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51blqg$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <51jckd$7p@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <51sde4$bkh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:04:29 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# The infamous "tube" of Treblinka appears closer to the British
# use of the word meaning subway, rather to American English
# capitalization could perhaps serve best as "the Passageway."
# By analogy, perhaps was a German analogy to the submarine
# term and a better translation would be "trash chute.

The German word is "schlauch". It referred to the curved
passageway that led to the gas chambers. I agree that "tube"
is not a very good translation.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 11:46:39 PDT 1996
Article: 67094 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:39:23 GMT
Lines: 33

The following photos are in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 11:46:40 PDT 1996
Article: 67097 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:40:37 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 13:16:12 PDT 1996
Article: 67107 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:32:35 GMT
Lines: 16

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images

MedExp03.jpg:

The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".


See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

(Translation to be added soon).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 13:16:13 PDT 1996
Article: 67114 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51tnpd$bst@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:34:12 GMT
Lines: 44

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Already dealt with this.  

No, no. You made a speculation that Dr. Klein and Ehlert
didn't tell the truth about Kramer. That doesn't count.

# By the way, do you have anything good to say about 
# either Ehlert or Klein?

Klein? He was, as he said, just following orders. He 
selected people to the gas chambers in Auschwitz, and he 
said he didn't like it, but "one cannot protest when in 
the army".

What good thing can I say about him? Possibly, that he
didn't enjoy what he was doing; possibly, he didn't kill
out of sadism, but only because he was told to.

# I guess you expect people to believe only what you write,
# eh, Danny Boy?

They can look in the photographs, nazi-boy.

# As to the food you mentioned, the TONS of food you mentioned-you 
# well know that Kramer had no authority to confiscate food from 
# the wehrmacht supply depots.  Tsk, tsk, how you neglect to 
# mention certain things.....schande.....

So, you're saying some other Nazi was guilty for the mass murder
in Belsen? I never said it was *only* Kramer. But he certainly
didn't give a damn about the fact that mass murder was taking
place. He didn't even try to get the inmates water to drink.

Not to mention his "work" in Natzweiler (where he personally
killed people in the gas chamber) and Birkenau.

Was he born a mass murderer? Possibly not; had it not been
for the Nazis, he may have lived a rather quiet, dull life.
And that is the scariest thing about it all.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 20 13:25:07 PDT 1996
Article: 67119 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51toe0$bst@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:04:01 GMT
Lines: 53

rblackmore@juno.com (aka "jbellings") writes:

# That's right, Dan, point to ANYTHING to distract from the
# facts.  

These nazi-boys are amazing people. They keep demanding the
evidence. When it's posted, they accuse the poster of trying
to "distract from the facts". These ARE the facts.

You forgot about all the corpses in the photos, didn't you?

# The shrunken head--yep, that's a good one....

The photos are there. Numerous people saw it. It was an
exhibit in the trials. One poster here said he saw the
shrunken heads in Germany.

What's with the "yep, that's a good one", nazi-boy? Because
you have nothing to say? Or maybe you're going to claim,
Like Giwer, that it was really taken from a "South-American
exhibit" in a museum?

# artifacts made from corpses....

The photos are there. Have you got a problem? The "Blue Series",
BTW, contains many more photos.

# that's even better----

You like it, huh?

# you're living in the past, Dan.....

Huh?

# there is no Santa Claus and there is no easter bunny.....

So?

# and there are no shrunken heads or artifacts from Buchenwald.....

Then what are we seeing in these photos? You're claiming
it's not a human head?

# where are these carnival fun-house items today?

Why don't you try to find out? Write the National Archives,
the "Institute for Contemporary History", etc.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:31 PDT 1996
Article: 67186 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:40:03 GMT
Lines: 18

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
Emaciated corpses of the inmates.

buchenwald02.jpg:
Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

shrunken.jpg: 
The shrunken head of an inmate.

buchenwald04.jpg: 
German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops 
have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how 
well-dressed and well-fed they are.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:32 PDT 1996
Article: 67187 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from DACHAU Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:41:11 GMT
Lines: 19

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images

dachau01.jpg
Corpses of the inmates.

dachau02.jpg, dachau03.jpg:
Mass graves of murdered inmates near Dachau.

dachau04.jpg
Letter about conducting medical experiments in Dachau.

MedExp02.jpg
An inmate subjected to low-pressure experiment in Dachau.

MedExp04.jpg
An inmate subjected to freezing experiment in Dachau.


-Danny Keren


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:33 PDT 1996
Article: 67193 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from NORDHAUSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:41:45 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images

nordhausen-01.jpg, nordhausen02.jpg:

Murdered inmates.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:33 PDT 1996
Article: 67194 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from OHRDRUF Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:42:23 GMT
Lines: 10

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images

ohrdruf-01.jpg
Burned corpses of inmates.

ohrdruf-02.jpg:
Murdered inmates.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:34 PDT 1996
Article: 67198 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <51q5d0$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <51tjkc$lpi@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:50:43 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Mistakes happen in wars, whether you like it or not. They
## happen today, such as in the Gulf War, although the technology
## is far superior to 1967 technology.

# There was no war.

You heard it here, folks.

There was no Arab-Israeli war going on in June 8, 1967.

I always knew the "revisionists" would get to that, sooner or
later.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:35 PDT 1996
Article: 67211 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:22:10 GMT
Lines: 23

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images

eg-01.jpg, eg-02.jpg, eg-03.jpg, eg-04.jpg, eg-05.jpg
Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR.

eg-06.jpg
Pyre of corpses ready to be set on fire.

eg-07.jpg
Mass grave.

eg-map.jpg
Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied 
Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

report-51.jpg
Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4 
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 00:03:36 PDT 1996
Article: 67232 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Brack's Plan To Kill 'Only' 80 Percent Of the Jews
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:58:53 GMT
Lines: 19

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/brack.victor/images/
brack-to-himmler-0642.jpg

and

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/brack.victor/images/
brack-to-himmler-0642-2.jpg

Two pages of a letter from Victor Brack to Reichsfuehrer 
Himmler, suggesting not to kill all Jews, but spare 20-30 
percent for forced labor, while sterilizing them.

Translation of the relevant excerpt is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/brack.victor/
brack-to-himmler-062342


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 09:50:47 PDT 1996
Article: 67284 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51r0jp$9db@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:54:20 GMT
Lines: 17

Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 09:50:48 PDT 1996
Article: 67287 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Revisionists' Support Freedom Of Speech? That's a Joke.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51s8sb$bkh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:32:05 GMT
Lines: 43

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## My opinion regarding the attack on the USS Liberty is 
## different from Matt Giwer's; I believe - and I have explained 
## why - that the ship was attacked in the midst of the 
## Arab-Israeli 1967 War because it was misidentified as
## an Egyptian ship.

# Such a misidentification was and is impossible. 

Tell that to the American pilots who shot down two US
helicopters over Iraq.

# And Israel had no right to attack an Egyptian merchant
# ship either.

It was misidentified as an Egyptian *Army* ship.

Moreover, as noted, when the TB approached the Liberty
they didn't come firing, but signaling. They fired only
after being fired upon. 

But you know that.

# You have chosen to believe the lies told by Israel 
# simply to cover your deepseated jewish hatred of America.

No. I don't hate America. I admire it. It's not perfect,
of course, but it's as close to perfect as nations get.

I guess our senile, unemployed bum will keep claiming that
he's not an antisemite, even after posting this Streicher-
like slander.

It is clear, BTW, that Holocaust deniers choose to believe
outrageous lies told by Nazis, simply to cover their deep
love and admiration for Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 21 09:50:49 PDT 1996
Article: 67366 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.service.emory.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!metro.atlanta.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <51h2bf$9rv@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <51rra2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:09:28 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Of which there is only one letter that the holohugger want to
# mean gas chamber even Gaskammer (sp?) was the correct word
# in German.

No, dummkopf. There's also a document that mentions a
"gaskammer" in Krema IV.

E. Kogon, H. Langbein, A. Rueckerl. Nazi Mass Murder. Yale
University Press, 1993. Page 248.

Also on Nizkor's web site, .../camps/auschwitz/images/Gaskammren.jpg

# Buzzer there.  Gaskammer WAS and IS the word in German
# regardless of English.

Stupid senile dummkopf. You just shot yourself in the
foot once again. This must be the biggest joke this
newsgroup has ever seen.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:47 PDT 1996
Article: 67475 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Document About Killing With Poison Gas Jews 'Unfit For Work
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51vipi$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:59:37 GMT
Lines: 9

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes;

# Murderiong slime Keren posts again.

Whatever happened to "fat Keren"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:48 PDT 1996
Article: 67476 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.thenet.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from NORDHAUSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51vi93$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:57:13 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Of course we all know that Keren is a fat, slimy, traitorous
# jew who allies himself with the murderers in Israel.

Now I'm also fat?

Why don't you try to get a job, you miserable person?


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:49 PDT 1996
Article: 67477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51vk8c$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:20:24 GMT
Lines: 31

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Keren is a murderous little slime who cheers the murder
                       ^^^^^^

Whatever became of "fat"?

# of Americans when Israel commits the murders.

I have done no such thing. If you claim I did, post the
article in which I have, or retract and apologize.

# May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your apart. 
# May you know death from drowning. 
#
# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the
# end of time and from then into eternity.

Don't want to sound paranoid, boys and girls, but I'm starting
to suspect that Matt doesn't like me.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:49 PDT 1996
Article: 67478 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <51rra2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <51udi6$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:46:43 GMT
Lines: 26

So, the story goes like this:

1) A document is presented, in which a Nazi official mentions
   a "gassing cellar" in Krema II (in which the gas chamber
   was indeed underground).

2) Giwer claims that the correct word that should have been
   used to describe a gas chamber in the Kremas would be 
   "gaskammer".

3) Another document is presented, which mentions a "gaskammer"
   in Krema V.

4) Giwer, after - yet again - making a joke out of himself,
   goes crazy.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:50 PDT 1996
Article: 67485 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What? No rabbis?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32436624.5655627@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:26:05 GMT
Lines: 15

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Posted by Mr.Keren, under "Priests murdered in Dachau".
#
# What does Mr.Keren care about priests? He doesn't.

Of course I do. It's Tom Moran who apparently doesn't 
care about anyone but his heroes, the Nazis; this is 
probably why he finds it appropriate to joke about the 
priests they murdered in Dachau. I don't see anything
funny about Nazis murdering priests.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:51 PDT 1996
Article: 67499 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty attack, no accident
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3241CAA6.3C67@halcyon.com>  <3242b0ed.3884900@news.pacificnet.net> <51usjt$edu@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:08:22 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Remember that McNamara is personally responsible for the hoax
# that escalated the war in Vietnam.  If you bring the torches, 
# I will bring the rope.  Afterwards we dig up LBJ's body and 
# desecrate it.  
#
# Ready to party?

I was wondering: what do you "revisionist scholars" out there
think about having this person as the most active "revisionist"
on the net?


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:52 PDT 1996
Article: 67501 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!en.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <5209of$8d2@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:35:19 GMT
Lines: 36

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

[About the dead inmates in Buchenwald and the other camps]

# You will never let us forget about those corpses...

Sorry 'bout that, nazi-boy. I know you folks would like
everyone to forget.

# "One poster-Chuck.  

No.

# He did not even know that Ilse Koch's husband was executed by
# the SS after being relieved of his command. 

Totally irrelevant.

# Actually, I have indeed read that the item in question WAS from a
# South American museum.  Giwer is correct here.  By the way, I
# posted the source earlier.

You posted a *claim*. It simply does not count. Tell us which
"South American museum", and prove to us it was indeed taken from
there.

# I would LOVE to find out, except they only seem to exist in these
# ridiculous photos and in your imagination.

Odd, nazi-boy, really odd. First, you say they existed but were
taken from a museum. Now, you say they don't exist. BTW, why are
the photos "ridiculous"?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:52 PDT 1996
Article: 67502 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 1967 Arab-Israeli War (Was; Re; The USS Li
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51ulbp$m5i@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51vqji$3uk@news.enter.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:38:35 GMT
Lines: 46

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# Or offense, as the case was in 1967

It looks like the former president of Egypt, Sadat, knew very
well that Nasser wanted war in 1967. Here's a quote from his
book "In Search of Identity" (p. 172):

"Nasser said 'now, with our concentrations in Sinai, the chances of
 war are fifty-fifty. But if we close the strait, war will be one
 hundred percent certainty'. Then, turning to Amer, he asked 'are the
 armed forces ready, Abdel Hakim?' Amer pointed to his neck and said
 'on my neck be it, boss! Everything's in tip-top shape'".

And then, of course, he closed the straits.

Some examples of Arab propaganda, just before the 1967 War:

TIME, June 2, p. 20: Damascus radio called on all Arabs to "undertake
the liberation battle that will tear the hearts from the bodies of
the hateful Jews and trample them in the dust".

TIME, June 16, p. 22: ..President Nasser had welcomed Iraq to the
Egypto-Jordanian alliance against Israel, and proclaimed: "we are
so eager for the battle in order to force the enemy to wake from
his dreams and meet Arab Reality face to face".

TIME, June 2, p. 20: "At week's end Nasser once more went to the radio
to say that "any war with Israel will be total, and the objective
will be to destroy Israel".

Churchill and Churchill, p. 52, quoting Shukairy (PLO chief): "the
surviving Jews would be helped to return to their native countries,
but my estimation is that none will survive".



Add all this to your wealth of knowledge, "Thomas", or "Hunt",
or "agathist", or whatever you're calling yourself today.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:53 PDT 1996
Article: 67523 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty attack, no accident
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3241ee1f.5356450@news.pacificnet.net> <51ulbp$m5i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:56:20 GMT
Lines: 34

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# The attack on the Liberty was as much an accident as the
# recent attack on Quana.

By the same logic, all the losses from "friendly fire" in
the Gulf War and its aftermath were "as much an accident as
the recent attack on Quana.

# I don't see what's so difficult about facing that fact.

It's not a fact.

# The Liberty was sunk

You don't even know that the ship wasn't sunk. It was damaged,
but not sunk. In other words, you know nothing, zero, zilch,
about the Liberty tragedy; but you know nothing, zero, zilch,
on any topic you write about.

# in an attempt to cover plans for taking the Golan Heights after
# Israel had agreed to begin winding things down.

This is, of course, pure invention. It is also the most stupid
excuse for the "deliberate attack" theory I ever heard. You're
saying that Israel didn't want to take the Golan Heights because
it would make America mad, so, in order not to make America
mad, they bombed an American ship... how stupid can you be,
for God's sake?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:54 PDT 1996
Article: 67525 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!nanospace.com!pornstorm.eit.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty Tragedy: Communication Failure
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51s875$bkh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <51uj14$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:40:12 GMT
Lines: 21

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# It was the open ocean, lying, traitorous murderer.

How does this relate to the fact that the messages sent
to the ship, ordering it to leave, were lost?

You're calling me a "lying, traitorous murderer"?

Because I have a different opinion on a certain historical
event then yours?

You're a crazy, old, senile bum who can't even find a job.

Poor old Matt, Unemployed since he was 46-years-old.

He seems to think it's my fault.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 00:08:55 PDT 1996
Article: 67533 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51q1dm$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51q9k0$n1j@news.enter.net> <51vqq7$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:09:09 GMT
Lines: 21

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

The eloquent, 163-IQ'ed, unemployed since the age of 46,
the shining star of "Holocaust revisionism", Matt Giwer,
writes to Yale F. Edeiken:

# I am so, so impressed by you I could just shit all over
# the keyboard.

That's the only thing you have ever done, Matty.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 07:51:49 PDT 1996
Article: 67578 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51i8qm$rqs@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <51uia8$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <11f_9609211221@tor250.org>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:51:15 GMT
Lines: 20

alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) writes:

# You are a total zero, Matt.

No, Mr. Grynspan. He is the derivative of the zero
function. 

If Giwer knows what a derivative is, he may possibly 
appreciate the joke. But I doubt it.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 11:49:33 PDT 1996
Article: 67685 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.thenet.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51i8qm$rqs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51rvp2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <51uhig$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:52:46 GMT
Lines: 27

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# And you are very, very ignorant if you think one person in
# a hundred in Israel speaks Hebrew beyond Torah reading.  

What language do you suppose is spoken in Israel?

# The Liberty was examined for ten minutes before the
# murder started.

And misidentified.

# It is impossible for them not to know what they were doing.

It most certainly was, more so as the TB boats were first fired
upon by the Liberty and only then returned fire.

# I define anyone who sides with murderers as a murder.  That
# means you, jew.

Get a job, loser. This may be helpful, although it's probably
too late. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 22 12:09:16 PDT 1996
Article: 67712 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32436646.5688747@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:03:01 GMT
Lines: 16

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Maybe Mr.Keren would like to say how the
# numbers on this list were killed?

Are you suggesting that, if no mass gassing took place
in this camp, it was impossible to kill these people?

How many people do you claim Stalin's regime killed,
without using gas chambers?

You're *really* an odd person, zeyde.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 13:02:58 PDT 1996
Article: 68002 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: USS Liberty: Interview with a Surviving Marine
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51i8qm$rqs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51uhig$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <524cuf$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:53:09 GMT
Lines: 21

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# The pilots spoke english.  Beyond Torah reading not one
# person in a hundred knows hebrew.

Hebrew is the only language spoken in Israel and, of
course, in the Israeli Army.

# It was a dead language then and it is a dead
# language now.

You're insane. Go to sleep.

# Fucking traitor jew.

Unemployed untermench. Loser. Punk.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 13:02:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68013 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: MATT GIWER'S 'SUPPORT' FOR FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 13:22:50 GMT
Lines: 60

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 13:03:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68014 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:59:02 GMT
Lines: 23

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images

eg-01.jpg, eg-02.jpg, eg-03.jpg, eg-04.jpg, eg-05.jpg
Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR.

eg-06.jpg
Pyre of corpses ready to be set on fire.

eg-07.jpg
Mass grave.

eg-map.jpg
Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied 
Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

report-51.jpg
Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4 
months in 1942.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 13:03:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68016 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Is Crazy Matt Giwer Also a Coward? (Re: The IDF pilots sp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <523j1q$nom@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <523l0t$3ct@news.enter.net> <524cgo$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:39:31 GMT
Lines: 16

Crazy Matt Giwer wrote:

# Of course we can just imagine them trying to find Hebrew
# words for machinegun, bomb, napalm and torpedo as well as
# straffing and lifeboat.

If I supply you with the Hebrew words for, say, machinegun,
bomb, and lifeboat, will you donate $50 to Nizkor? If they
don't exist, I'll donate $50 to the organization of your
choice. How about it, stinking coward? How about it, loser?
How about it, unemployed punk? How about it, pathological liar?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 13:03:01 PDT 1996
Article: 68044 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty attack, no accident
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52417n$s26@Vir.com> <5245qd$7pu@news.enter.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:14:23 GMT
Lines: 15

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# No lying Yale. Israel attacked first Syria and Egyptia

No, stupid liar. Syria attacked Israel first, and
so did Jordan. Moreover, the blocakde of the straits
was equivalent to a declaration of war, as Egyptian
President Nasser knew well. See my quote from Sadat's
book. Or maybe you'll claim Sadat is also a "Zionist
liar"?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 14:58:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68100 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <515n29$jsh@orion.cybercom.net> <51tij5$lpi@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51u9h6$gjs@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <526hjs$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:01:16 GMT
Lines: 31

It is amazing that the crazed Matt Giwer continues to
insist he's not an antisemite.

Look at the following:

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:03:39 EDT 1996
 Article: 122283 of alt.revisionism

# As a murdering, scum traitor, you are the best example of
# what a jew can be, a murdering traitor.
#
# You scum jew traitor. 



Sigh. If only this senile, semi-retarded piece of human
garbage would find a job (he's been unemployed since
he was 46-years-old, a fact which for some reason he's
very proud of). But who's going to hire such a useless
piece of trash? The IHR, maybe...


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 15:48:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68109 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.tbcnet.com!news.nap.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from DACHAU Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:58:05 GMT
Lines: 19

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images

dachau01.jpg
Corpses of the inmates.

dachau02.jpg, dachau03.jpg:
Mass graves of murdered inmates near Dachau.

dachau04.jpg
Letter about conducting medical experiments in Dachau.

MedExp02.jpg
An inmate subjected to low-pressure experiment in Dachau.

MedExp04.jpg
An inmate subjected to freezing experiment in Dachau.


-Danny Keren


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 15:49:01 PDT 1996
Article: 68110 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.tbcnet.com!news.nap.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:00:01 GMT
Lines: 16

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images

MedExp03.jpg:

The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".


See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

(Translation to be added soon).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 15:49:02 PDT 1996
Article: 68111 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.tbcnet.com!news.nap.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from OHRDRUF Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:02:09 GMT
Lines: 10

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images

ohrdruf-01.jpg
Burned corpses of inmates.

ohrdruf-02.jpg:
Murdered inmates.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 17:16:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68127 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!lohs20.ohs.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What other sorts of Revisionism are there?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <515n29$jsh@orion.cybercom.net> <51tij5$lpi@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <526hon$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:02:24 GMT
Lines: 34

Giwer recently claimed that the amount of Zyklon-B, necessary
to kill people in the gas chambers in 10-15 minutes, was too
much for two men to carry on a ladder:

 From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Date:         1996/08/10
 Message-Id:   <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
 
# Go take another look at it and note the amount released in 
# the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common 
# description of the time frame.  THEN calculate backwards to 
# find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve lethality 
# in that time frame.  
#
# And then, when you discover that two people could not carry 
# enough to do it, explain why they were in such a hurry to 
# kill when cremation was the bottleneck in the operation.  



A trivial calculation, which I posted, shows the weight 
to be 3 Kg. And this, in the largest gas chambers, in
which there were 4 openings; that's 3/4 of a Kg for 
each SS-man. 8 Kg (2 Kg per SS-man) would result in
an even faster death. Is Giwer claiming that an SS-man
could not carry such an amount?

There is nothing "miraculous" about the facts of the
Holocaust; the only miracle we see here is the fact that 
Giwer managed to stay employed till he was 46-years-old 
(when he retired).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 17:16:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68129 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Kube Reports His Work: 10 Weeks, 55,000 Murdered
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:37:27 GMT
Lines: 26

Report from Kube, General Commissioner of White Ruthenia,
to Gauleiter Lohse, Reich Commissioner for the Ostland,
31 July 1942
[Quoted from "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg
 Military Tribunals", Vol. IV, pages 191-193]
 ---------------------------------------------------------

During detailed consultations with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner 
and the extremely capable Chief of the SD, 
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we found that we had 
liquidated approximately 55,000 Jews in White Ruthenia during 
the past 10 weeks. In the Minsk-Land area, the Jewry was completely 
exterminated without endangering the allocation of labor in any way. 
In the prevailing Polish Lida area, 16,000 Jews, in Slonim 8,000
Jews, etc., were liquidated. 

[...]

In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and
29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews - mainly old people, women,
and children - the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most 
of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin
in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 17:16:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68130 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one year's time'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:40:44 GMT
Lines: 19

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers           
in Poland, urging them to write home                                        
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print.              
Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]                                            
----------------------------------------------------------------------      
In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking             
of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in                      
Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is                 
hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.                             
It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a                
picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many                     
lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General                  
Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of                   
course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one                 
year's time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you               
help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not                    
necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and                 
right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who                  
follow us to do?


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 19:20:53 PDT 1996
Article: 68155 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!en.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Consider the holohugger
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <526jsn$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:12:51 GMT
Lines: 39

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 21:35:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68165 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:56:42 GMT
Lines: 18

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
Emaciated corpses of the inmates.

buchenwald02.jpg:
Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

shrunken.jpg: 
The shrunken head of an inmate.

buchenwald04.jpg: 
German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops 
have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how 
well-dressed and well-fed they are.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 23 23:07:29 PDT 1996
Article: 68212 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Liquidate them yourselves!'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:38:56 GMT
Lines: 34

Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
---------------------------------------------------------------
One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
Jew of Europe will have met his end....
 
But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
the whole structure of the Reich...
 
The Jews represent for us also extraordinary malignant gluttons. We
have now approximately 2,500,000 of them in the General Government
[Nazi occupied Poland], perhaps with the Jewish mixtures and
everything that goes with it, 3,500,000 Jews. We cannot shoot or
poison those 3,500,000 Jews, but we shall nevertheless be able to take
measures which will lead somehow to their annihilation, and this in
connection with the gigantic measures to be determined in discussions
with the Reich.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 07:37:37 PDT 1996
Article: 68229 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.syria,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.palestine
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 1967 Arab-Israeli War (Re: The USS Liber
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52417n$s26@Vir.com> <5245qd$7pu@news.enter.net>  <5277r5$78h@Vir.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:43:44 GMT
Lines: 55
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:68229 soc.culture.syria:3960 soc.culture.lebanon:25839 soc.culture.palestine:20351

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# Israeli Air force General Ezer Weizmann declared bluntly
# that 'there was never any danger of extermination'.

Irrelevant. The blocakde of the Tiran Straits was equivalent
to a declaration of war by Egypt. Former Egyptian president
Sadat admitted it. You want to deny it, fine.

Military blockade of a country = declaration of war.

And that, in addition to the Egyptians kicking the UN from
Sinai, and, together with Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, massing
huge forces around Israel.

 TIME, June 2, p. 20: Damascus radio called on all Arabs to
"undertake the liberation battle that will tear the hearts from 
the bodies of the hateful Jews and trample them in the dust".

 TIME, June 16, p. 22: ..President Nasser had welcomed Iraq to the
Egypto-Jordanian alliance against Israel, and proclaimed: "we are
so eager for the battle in order to force the enemy to wake from
his dreams and meet Arab Reality face to face".

 "..Syrian, Egyptian and Arab propaganda blared over the radio their
message of war, vengeance and victory and were listened to by millions
of Arabs in the middle east. They claimed that the hour of reckoning
was at hand and that the Israelis would receive the retribution they
richly deserved. This produced a massive response in favor of war 
amongst the Arabs of Jordan...the pressure of public opinion in
favor of war was so strong that king Hussein knew that if he failed
to participate he ran the risk of civil war. King Hussein's
commanders warned him that they could not hold their men in check
any longer and that there would be a serious crisis if Jordan failed
to act".

Jordanian journalist Samir Mutawi, summerizing from interviews
with king Hussein, major general Salim, field marshal Majali,
Lt general Haditha and Ben Shaker, commander in chief of the
Jordanian army.

 "There was in the country and all over the Arab world what you
might call a mass euphoria about the possibility of war and that
this was something we have been waiting for a long time - we
were going to defeat Israel once and for all".

As told to Jordanian journalist Samir Mutawi in an 1983 interview
by Zaid Rifai, a senior aid to king Hussein, and two times
Jordanian prime minister.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 07:37:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68241 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:59:01 GMT
Lines: 67

Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec...

During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
morning.

A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
their shoes...

After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
killed here...

Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 07:37:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68242 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:58:13 GMT
Lines: 94

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
   I was very much shaken emotionally.
 
 .
 .
 .


Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
   gassed at Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
   beings were being gassed and exterminated?

A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
   Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
   completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
   me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo 
   was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
   secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
   worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
   closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody 
   who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
   Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
   Auschwitz.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
   Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
   days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
   commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
   and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
   masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
   people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
   treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
   were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
   especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
   like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
   and well-functioning washrooms. 

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
   beings?

A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
   in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
   sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
   to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
   at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
   edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
   were gassed.


Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
   of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

A. Also to be gassed.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 08:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 68317 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The IDF pilots spoke English during their murder of the 
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <523j1q$nom@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <523l0t$3ct@news.enter.net> <524cgo$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:35:40 GMT
Lines: 28

It is simply amazing to see the depths of insanity to
which Giwer sinks, in order to push his myth that the
USS Liberty was intentionally attacked during the
1967 Arab-Israeli War.

He now claims that Hebrew is not spoken in Israel,
therefore, it was possible to hear the Israeli pilots
speaking in English about their intent to attack the
Liberty.

Hebrew is, of course, the only language spoken in
Israel. It is true that many Israelis speak English,
just as many French, German, and African folks
speak English. But Hebrew is, of course, the
official language.

The Giwer bases his claim on the fact that when Israeli
PM, Netanyau, visits the US, he speaks in English...

Hey, we have a poster from Germany here, who writes
in (very good) English. So Giwer must conclude that
English is the formal language in Germany...


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 08:13:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68320 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer - the Poor, Senile Liar (Re: WW I and US involvement)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51k29d$89q@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51vkb1$n98@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <521il0$iac@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <5245cd$9hj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:09:25 GMT
Lines: 47

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

The poor, senile, unemployed Giwer once again posts
a "testimony" which does not exist.

Incredible.

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 08:37:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68333 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!uct.ac.za!quagga.ru.ac.za!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:03:34 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images

Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:

The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 08:37:12 PDT 1996
Article: 68339 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Consider the holohugger
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <526jsn$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:14:05 GMT
Lines: 61

Never forget what you're dealing with here.

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 08:37:13 PDT 1996
Article: 68341 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer admits again that he is a troll....
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51ued6$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51vn5a$3uk@news.enter.net> <526h70$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:54:37 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) offers the web sites
of Greg Raven, a Hitler admirer who stated that Hitler
was a "great man" and "the best thing that could have
happened to Germany". He also offers Ernst Zundel's
site; Zundel not only admires Hitler, he also believes
that the Nazi leadership escaped Germany in "secret
UFO's" and flew into the inner earth through a big
hole in the South-Pole (see the web site with Zundel's
"research", address posted by Jamie McCarthy). 

Is it any surprise that Giwer finds these people
credible? We all know, after all, what Giwer is.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 10:09:07 PDT 1996
Article: 68355 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Fatbroad T-shirt
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51rtd6$674@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <51tgcu$lpi@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <526ave$rhh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:39:00 GMT
Lines: 55

Yet again, our 163-IQ'ed "leading revisionist", Matt Giwer,
proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.

# There is none from a diesel engine.  Even you
# should know that.  

"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).

## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

# Not a diesel.  

Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong 
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is 
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios 
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the 
exhaust.

Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.

Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about.

The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 10:09:08 PDT 1996
Article: 68359 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!hustle.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <23SEP199610051236@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:46:59 GMT
Lines: 18

The funniest thing about Moran's article is actually not
the content (which is as ridiculous as anything he posts),
but the fact that the world's most famous "Holocaust
revisionist", Ernst Zundel, believes that the Nazi
leadership escaped Germany in "secret UFO's", and used
them to fly to the inner earth, via "a hole in the
South-Pole". The nut even claimed to have met some of
the "German scientists" who "built the UFO's" (!!).

The "revisionists" try to apologize for this by saying
that Zundel only published his UFO material "for
publicity"...

What a bunch of crazed idiots, each and every one of them.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 12:26:11 PDT 1996
Article: 68384 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32436631.5668150@news.pacificnet.net> <324536e7.895602@news.inetport.com> <526to7$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:19:05 GMT
Lines: 13

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Where does it say they were killed?  The table reads deaths.

868 out of 1780 Polish priests sent to Dachau died. Do you
consider this a normal death rate? Ooops! Don't tell me, the
water pump in Dachau also broke down, just like the ones
in Belsen, Buchenwald, Nordhausen, Ohrdruf...


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 15:19:31 PDT 1996
Article: 68391 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Stanislawa Starotska Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:00:23 GMT
Lines: 64

Testimony of Stanislawa Starotska 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949, page numbers follow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
p. 418:

Q. How was the Appell [roll-call] for selection for the gas chamber run?

A. The doctor was present and he chose weak and sick people instead of
   healthy ones. My part was exactly the same as during the other 
   parades. I had to keep order and see that everything was all right.
   I never helped the staff of the concentration camp during the 
   selection for the gas chamebrs.

p. 421:

Q. How did the SS behave towards the prisoners at Auschwitz?

A. The prisoners in Auschwitz were treated very badly, and beaten on 
   every occasion. They had to work very hard, the accomodation was 
   very bad, they had lice and other diseases, and dogs were set on 
   them. Almost all the Blockfuehrer [block leader] in the camp carried 
   sticks which they used, and some of the Aufseherinnen [wardresses] 
   has sticks, some cellophane whips, and others dogs. Some had nothing.

 .
 .
 .

Q. When these Jews began to realize that they were being selected for
   the gas chamber did a lot of people begin to try and run away and
   get hysterical?

A. Some of them tried to run away and others tried to hide themselves,
   or tried to avoid being examined by the doctors. Those who tried to
   run away or hide were brought back again to the same place and
   sometimes were beaten.

p. 422:

Q. You say that sometimes the factories sent some prisoners back again
   who were completely exhausted from work. I suppose it was only a 
   question of time before these people found their way into the gas
   chamber?

A. It was not even a question of time; they were sent direct from the
   platform to the gas chamber.

p. 423:

Q. When the prisoners were being marched past the doctor, did you stand
   behind him taking the numbers or did you go round the parade and 
   take the numbers afterwards?

A. Prisoners marched past the doctor and then he would point out one of
   those wretched people and say "that man can be taken to the gas 
   chamber". At that moment the Blockfuehrer would take the man and
   bring him to the left side and tell me to write down the number as
   he was for the gas chamber.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 15:19:32 PDT 1996
Article: 68397 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <523ks0$l9r@juliana.sprynet.com> <523t9s$5mc@news.enter.net> <526m29$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:07:55 GMT
Lines: 44

More stupid lies from the Giwer... so what else is new.

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

# You mean the British who connected the water station to one 
# of their portable generators? 

"We found enough materials to complete a working water supply
 through the camp".

"Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
in that camp?"

"I can think of none".

Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, "The Belsen Trial",
p. 54.

Matty, the Nazis are still murderers, and you're still a stupid
liar. Maybe you'd care to explain why there was enough water
for the SS and the German soldiers?

## That is not the question.  He was in command of the camp.  He
## made no effort to stop what the men under his command were
## doing.  They were killing inmates even as the liberators 
## entered the camp.

# To bad the "liberators" (who were there by negotiation of the
# camp's early surrender at Kramer's instigation) did not report
# any such thing.  Beyond that, nice try.

Wrong again, stupid liar. See the testimony of Brigadier Hughes,
p. 34.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 15:19:33 PDT 1996
Article: 68412 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!nntp.netrex.net!sbcntrex!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.denver.eti.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'About 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:35:49 GMT
Lines: 16

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent 
can be used for forced labor.
 

 
 
-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 15:19:33 PDT 1996
Article: 68418 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!news.lava.net!news.pixi.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.ecis.com!news.walltech.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:55:24 GMT
Lines: 33

The following photos are in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 16:00:56 PDT 1996
Article: 68434 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from NORDHAUSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:01:28 GMT
Lines: 8

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images

nordhausen-01.jpg, nordhausen02.jpg:

Murdered inmates.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 24 18:41:37 PDT 1996
Article: 68483 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5272h2$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:58:18 GMT
Lines: 69

Never forget what the Giwer and people like him stand for.

Never believe them when they try to retract and whine "I
didn't really mean that..." etc.

Never forget the true reasons for which they deny the Holocaust.

Never forget what they would do, if they had the power.

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 07:38:45 PDT 1996
Article: 68609 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Yep - He's Crazy (Re: The IDF pilots spoke English during
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <523j1q$nom@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <524cgo$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <529fck$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:48:12 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Hebrew is, of course, the only language spoken in
## Israel.

# That is your position, not mine.

That is a fact. Period. You can try and deny the
Holocaust, that's stupid enough, but to claim that
Hebrew is not the official and only language spoken
in Israel is plain insanity which puts you, IMHO, as
a candidate to be hospitalized in an asylum.

And all this, to support your insanity about Israeli
pilots allegedly speaking in English during the erroneous
attack on the Liberty.

## The Giwer bases his claim on the fact that when Israeli
## PM, Netanyau, visits the US, he speaks in English...

# I was speaking of the campaign speeches of both candidates
# made in Israel and carried in the news.

No such thing, unless speaking to American TV.

Hey, saw Yasser Arafat speak in English on TV yesterday.
What do you make of that, Matty?

Get over it. You're really going crazy.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 07:38:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68626 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Israel murdered again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5249j9$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5255ra$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <52ad18$8u1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:05:52 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

## But Matt--I thought Israelis didn't speak Hebrew...

# I said about 1 in a 100 speak it.  Now you are talking about
# reading it.  

So, you're claiming they speak English in Israel, and all the 
major newspapers are written in Hebrew...

Great God. Have mercy on us all.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 07:38:47 PDT 1996
Article: 68630 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <324716DF.5E9E@unb.ca> <5296ll$b2h@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52af10$ofc@backup.mnsi.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:19:37 GMT
Lines: 27

beaton1@server.uwindsor.ca (Lorne Beaton) writes:
# mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

[To Keith Morrison]

## But then you are a Canadian.  

# So am I, and what's that got to do with anything?

Obviously, you are not familiar with Matt Giwer. You see,
he claims to have an IQ of 163, and keeps declaring that,
compared to him, we are all like a mentally retarded person
compared to an ordinary person. 

So, is it any wonder we cannot always understand him?

 :-)


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 07:38:48 PDT 1996
Article: 68657 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer lies again (why does he bother?) - was Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <51vi01$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <5274hf$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:25:38 GMT
Lines: 24

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
# given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
# would get their things back ... When the last one was in, the
# doors were shut and the gas was let into the room. As soon as
# death had set in, the ventilators were started. When the air
# could be breathed again, the doors were opened, and the Jewish
# workers removed the bodies. By means of a special procedure... they
                                                             ^^^
# were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

Still deleting the reference to a "method developed by Wirth",
which most probably refers to the method for burning corpses
in the camps Wirth supervised, using large amounts of wood.

There can be no explanation for this deletion but for an
intentional attempt to mislead; just what you'd expect from
a pathological liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 07:38:48 PDT 1996
Article: 68660 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Impressions of the evidence and the reality
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <524l8q$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <52adec$8u1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 11:12:03 GMT
Lines: 29

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To schwartz@infinet.com]

# Silly goose.  Leave the thinking for men.  Women are obviously 
# not up to it.

Seen a few women in my life. Not one of them claimed that:

1) Hebrew is not spoken in Israel.

2) Belsen camp is in Poland.

3) Four SS-men combined could not carry 3 Kg of Zyklon-B up the
   ladder, since it's too heavy.

You, Matty, made all these claims.

And the one below. Let's not forget it.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 09:46:11 PDT 1996
Article: 158050 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:53:32 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 10:21:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68671 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer the Ignorant
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5242ba$9hj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52453u$7pu@news.enter.net> <5295v1$b2h@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:18:02 GMT
Lines: 40

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Rather I can do arithmetic. 

No more than I can play center in the NBA. 

# We have been over this.  The IMT declared 6 million. 

Jewish victims.

# Every writer has declared between 5 and 6 million. 

Including those who said that about 1 million Jews died
in Auschwitz. Such as Hilberg.

# Auschwitz lost 3 million.  

NOT JEWS. The number of NON-JEWISH victims was indeed
over-estimated, partly, I believe, as a result of pure
old-fashioned antisemitism by the Soviets. The Soviet
estimate DOES NOT say 4 million Jews.

The "Institute for Contemporary History" in Munich gives
a total figure of 6 million Jewish victims: 1 million at
Auschwitz, 700,000 in Treblinka, 600,000 in Belzec, 900,000
murdered by the Einsatzgruppen. The rest died in numerous
"smaller" camps and were starved to death in the ghettos.

Can you REALLY not understand this? I mean, with your 
self-claimed IQ of 163? But then again, see below...


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 10:21:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68679 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <526tfs$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:13:36 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality 
## and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of 
## Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.
##
## Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", 
## ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. 

# Only a holohugger can go from deaths to murders.

The Giwer probably thinks they all died from old age.

# http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

Why is it not surprising that Giwer thinks that Ernst
Zundel, a nut who believes that the Nazi leadership
escaped into the inner earth with "secret UFO's", is
a credible source? 


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 10:21:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68687 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.istar.ca!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Fatbroad T-shirt
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51rtd6$674@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <526ave$rhh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <529dku$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:29:30 GMT
Lines: 38

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# We have been over your ignorance of how diesel engines operate
# many times.

Not once. You, however, claimed they cannot produce enough CO
to kill, while experiments proved that a) up to 6% CO can be
present in the exhaust, and b) animals in a closed chamber
will indeed die when exposed to diesel exhaust.

# And besides I have posted the TRUE, EYEWITNESS testimony that
# STEAM was used and not diesel engines.

Can you provide the name of the witness who said that?

As we all know, the origin of the "steam" is from a wartime
report which *speculated* that steam was used. It was written by
Poles who spied on the camp. And we know that the sonderkommando
survivors and the SS-men, as well as the Ukrainian guards -
that is, all first-hand witnesses - said diesel exhaust
were used.

You're like someone who claims that, because some eyewitnesses
thought they saw a missile strike TWA 800, while it seems
no missile was used, we have proof the plane was never shot
down.

But we know all about your powers of reasoning. See below.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 13:28:58 PDT 1996
Article: 68738 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <523ks0$l9r@juliana.sprynet.com> <526m29$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <52bh7u$a0g@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:32:21 GMT
Lines: 26

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Now tell me, WHERE did they find enough materials?  Where did
# he testify to finding "enough materials"?

Can you read, for God's sake?

## "We found enough materials to complete a working water supply
##  through the camp".
##
## "Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
## in that camp?"
##
## "I can think of none".
##
## Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, "The Belsen Trial",
## p. 54.

Learn to read, stupid. maybe someone will eventually hire you. 

163 IQ he claims, yet he's been unemployed since he was 46
years old... Matt Giwer. What a joke.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 13:28:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68745 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Eastern European Style of Truth
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52aobv$au2@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:41:04 GMT
Lines: 39

            Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
	          Which Does Not Exist
                  -------------------- 

Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.

Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".

The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They 
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, 
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron 
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.



# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.



Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.

Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
unrelated. 

But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 14:06:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68748 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <526m29$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <527fua$1ma@news.enter.net> <52bgao$a0g@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:50:01 GMT
Lines: 18

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Back to cases.  If corpses are rotting in the water, our
# brilliant counselor says, take out the bodies and the water
# is pure.

No, unemployed one. The Brits used the water from the river
that runs nearby, not from the water tanks inside the camps.

The river's water were fit to drink.

The SS simply didn't care enough to set a water supply
for the inmates. The Brits did it immediately, using only
materials found in the camp.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 17:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68789 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Eastern European Style of Truth
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52aobv$au2@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:40:13 GMT
Lines: 59

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 17:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68806 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Poor Old Tommy (Re: What? No rabbis?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32436624.5655627@news.pacificnet.net> <324837da.20309452@news.pacificnet.net>  <52c9ie$lm5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:50:53 GMT
Lines: 18

libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
# Daniel Keren (dkeren@world.std.com) wrote:

[To Tommy Moran]

## Tommy, what's all this about? The Nazis made a list,
## which I posted, of priests who were imprisoned and died
## in Dachau. The list doesn't contain rabbis, as they are
## not priests.

# Geez.  That probably explains why there are no Hatmakers
# on the list too, huh?

You have to give him ideas, right?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 19:36:54 PDT 1996
Article: 68833 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.europe,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Kreiberg's plans to deport Danish citizens
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <524fbm$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <527q1p$j38@news1.panix.com> <52cft7$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:14:51 GMT
Lines: 15
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:31218 soc.culture.europe:48246 alt.revisionism:68833

fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

[About Matt Giwer]

# No stranger than a 50+ loser who wishes death on his wife,

Actually, the Giwer posted that his second wife died, and 
that it was "good to hear" that she died.

He did wish death for a considerable number of posters
to alt.revisionism, though.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 19:36:54 PDT 1996
Article: 68846 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Who is the 'Traitor' Here?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:08:13 GMT
Lines: 24

How about someone who defends Nazis, the same people who
murdered American POW's in cold blood? I'd say he's a traitor.

Quoted from Evelyn Le Chene's "Mauthausen", p. 127:

 "In April 1945, nine American airmen were shot down. Four of
them were brought to the camp in a large staff car. They were
also made to stand against the wall and were interrogated by
about fifteen SS-men. One fell dead at their feet; the other
three were shot at the entrance to the crematorium".

 "The crews baled out and some were shot while descending.
Thirty-six airmen were brought to Mauthausen and interrogated
in the bunker. Later, all were taken away by Wehrmacht
officers. Five bodies of this group were brought back to
Mauthausen for cremation. Nothing is known of what happened
to the remaining thirty-one".

Only a traitor and a scumbag would support and defend Nazi
murderers.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 19:36:55 PDT 1996
Article: 68850 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Show Trials'? No, Just Another 'Revisionist' Lie
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:53:38 GMT
Lines: 40

This is excerpted from "The Belsen Trial", p. 254-6. The
accused is SS-woman Irma Grese; she is interrogated
by Colonel Backhouse about her crimes in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Note how she responds to the questions. Only a "revisionist"
nut would claim that this exchange could have taken place
at a "show trial".

Colonel Backhouse: I suggest to you that you gave evidence 
at an enquiry against a guard who had refused to shoot 
people crossing the wire on the grounds that you had sent 
them over deliberately?

Grese: You can think what you like, but it is a lie, and it
is wrong.

[...]

Colonel Backhouse: Gertrud Diament [a survivor] in her 
deposition said that your favorite habit was to beat women
until they fell to the ground and then kick them as hard
as you could with your heavy boots?

Grese: That is a lie. Perhaps it is her habit to lie.



So, an accused Nazi calling the survivors, and a senior
member of the British counsel for the prosecution, "liars".

Gee. And our "revisionist scholars" have been telling us
all along that these were "show trials", in which the accused
Nazis were "told what to say", bla-bla.

"Revisionists". What a bunch of low-life Nazi liars.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 23:01:22 PDT 1996
Article: 158261 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
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From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 23:01:24 PDT 1996
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From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 23:01:25 PDT 1996
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Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
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From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 25 23:03:34 PDT 1996
Article: 68891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!xara.net!emerald.xara.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer - the Poor, Senile Liar (Re: WW I and US involvement)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51k29d$89q@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5245cd$9hj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <529itb$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:24:10 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# I posted the testimony.

No, liar, you didn't. You posted a *claim* that such-and-such
testimony was given. But this claim is a lie.

If it's not a lie, post the name of the witness who you
claim gave this testimony.

# Of course I would put nothing above a traitor.

Answer the question, Matty. Who is the eyewitness?

No such eyewitness exists, since you're a lying piece
of scum, who posted a testimony which does not exist.

# http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

It is fitting that a semi-retarded, crazed, senile "revisionist"
will advocate the web site of a person who claims that the
Nazi leadership escaped into the inner earth through a hole
in the South-Pole, using "secret UFO's".

What a bunch of crazies.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:31 PDT 1996
Article: 68909 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.lebanon
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Israeli slaughter of Palestinians
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52cbij$cgj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52ceo9$ojh@news.ios.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 05:59:25 GMT
Lines: 59
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:68909 soc.culture.lebanon:25871

        Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
            with him about historical facts
        ---------------------------------------

Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
kill me himself.

Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".

Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
for all of this.


 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
# first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
# US above all others.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism

# Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
# a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
# the US.
#
# The curse is upon him.
#
# He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
# Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
# security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
# are no loyal Americans.
#
# They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
#
# Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism

[Giwer writes to me]

# May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
# apart.  May you know death from drowning.

# And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
# end of time and from then into eternity.  




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:33 PDT 1996
Article: 68910 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: uprising update
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52cflt$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:08:55 GMT
Lines: 45
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:68910 soc.culture.lebanon:25872 soc.culture.jewish:77012

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# when the Mayor of Jerusalem gave his insult that the religious
# affront was for mercantile tourism he was speaking to the local
# TV cameras.  He was also speaking english.  Netanyahu speaking
# from Paris also spoke in English.

The reason Giwer takes care to emphasize the fact that they
spoke English to the TV cameras, is because he has this new
"revisionist" theory, that the language spoken in Israel
is really English, and Hebrew is spoken by "1 in 100", and
only for Torah studies.

Heck, Yasser Arafat also spoke English on TV. I wonder what
crazy old Matty will conclude from that...

# Read the information holohuggers fear

Who should fear cheap Nazi propagandists?

# http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg

The web site of Greg Raven, a Hitler admirer who said that Hitler
was a "great man" and "the best thing that could have happened
to Germany".

# http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

Another nut, possibly crazier than Giwer, who claims that the
Nazi leadership escaped the Reich and fled to the inner earth
via holes in the South-Pole.

What a kook party. Is it any wonder Giwer supports fellow
crazies? Not really. See below.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:34 PDT 1996
Article: 68923 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <5256os$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <52996i$6ji@access5.digex.net> <52cinq$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:13:57 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# There is no candidate for such a builing near either K IV or V.

The gas chamber was *inside* these Kremas. Look at the
photographs.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:35 PDT 1996
Article: 68924 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32429A6B.167E@itsa.ucsf.edu> <520g93$da4@juliana.sprynet.com> <32463411.59E2@itsa.ucsf.edu> <52cu6i$476c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:18:24 GMT
Lines: 17

 In the course of your career have you ever seen anything
like this before? -- I have been a doctor for 30 years and
have seen all the horrors of war, but I have never seen 
anything to touch it.

 Did there appear to have been any attempt made at all
to preserve the lives and health of the inmates of that
camp? -- Absolutely none.



Brigadier Glyn Hughes testifying. Quoted from "The Belsen
Trial", p. 35.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:35 PDT 1996
Article: 68925 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Brack's Plan To Kill 'Only' 80 Percent Of the Jews
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:33:41 GMT
Lines: 19

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/brack.victor/images/
brack-to-himmler-0642.jpg

and

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/brack.victor/images/
brack-to-himmler-0642-2.jpg

Two pages of a letter from Victor Brack to Reichsfuehrer 
Himmler, suggesting not to kill all Jews, but spare 20-30 
percent for forced labor, while sterilizing them.

Translation of the relevant excerpt is in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/brack.victor/
brack-to-himmler-062342


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:36 PDT 1996
Article: 68929 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Best Giwer Piece Ever?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:32:20 GMT
Lines: 30

While trying to misinterpret SS documents about the
gassing in Birkenau, Giwer "explained" that the mention
of a "gassing cellar" (vergasungskeller) in the 
construction documents of Krema II, means nothing,
as the word that would have been used is "gaskammer".

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
#
# Of which there is only one letter that the holohugger want to
# mean gas chamber even Gaskammer (sp?) was the correct word
# in German.

"Gaskammer", indeed, means "gas chamber". "Gassing cellar"
was used because, in Krema II, the gas chamber was indeed
in a large cellar.

Unfortunately for Giwer, another construction document,
which he was (of course) unaware of, does mention a
"gaskammer" in Krema V...

See Nizkor's web site, 
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

File is Gaskammren.jpg.

Matt Giwer. What a sad joke. Maybe Joel Rosenberg is right.
This person deserves only pity.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:37 PDT 1996
Article: 68935 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photograph: Document About Killing With Poison Gas Jews 'Unfit For Work'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 06:35:06 GMT
Lines: 15

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-01.jpg

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/images/
wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Two pages of letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar 
Lohse, October 25, 1941, about murdering Jews "unfit for
work" using poison gas.

Translation in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/wetzel.102541


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:37 PDT 1996
Article: 68949 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Show Trials'? No, Just Another 'Revisionist' Lie
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <52d8e2$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:39:53 GMT
Lines: 15

rblackmore@juno.com (aka "jbelling") writes:

# So pleased to see that you brought the case of Irma Grese up.

Yes, it's fascinating. Here we have the Nazi trashies whining
about how the trials of Nazi criminals were "show trials", in
which the accused were told what to say, and we have an
accused Nazi calling the prosecutor and the survivors "liars".

The myth of the "show trials" is going down the toilet,
for sure, together with the rest of the "revisionist" rubbish.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68951 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Wicked old Nazi Witch and the Gingerbread House
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52d84t$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:52:13 GMT
Lines: 60

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

[Lame jokes about Nazi atrocities]

You seem to suggest the atrocities described in these 
testimonies are "impossible". However - 

Burning inmates alive is also "impossible", but the 
Nazis did it:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:
The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.

Killing people for "anthropological research" and dissecting
them is also "impossible", but the Nazis did it:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
MedExp03.jpg:
The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
research".
See photographs of relevant documents in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images

Making artifacts from human corpses is also "impossible",
but the Nazis did it:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
buchenwald02.jpg:
Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.
shrunken.jpg: 
The shrunken head of an inmate.

Starving and torturing to death numerous innocent people
is also "impossible", but the Nazis did it:

The following photos are in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  
belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/
Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68958 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: holohugging traitors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <324716DF.5E9E@unb.ca> <5296ll$b2h@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3249f051.2197219@news.awinc.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:11:08 GMT
Lines: 22

The only traitors here are Nazi scumbags who defend and
apologize for the Nazis, who murdered American POW's in 
cold blood.

Quoted from Evelyn Le Chene's "Mauthausen", p. 127:

 "In April 1945, nine American airmen were shot down. Four of
them were brought to the camp in a large staff car. They were
also made to stand against the wall and were interrogated by
about fifteen SS-men. One fell dead at their feet; the other
three were shot at the entrance to the crematorium".

 "The crews baled out and some were shot while descending.
Thirty-six airmen were brought to Mauthausen and interrogated
in the bunker. Later, all were taken away by Wehrmacht
officers. Five bodies of this group were brought back to
Mauthausen for cremation. Nothing is known of what happened
to the remaining thirty-one".


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:40 PDT 1996
Article: 68959 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Poor Old Tommy (Re: What? No rabbis?)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32436624.5655627@news.pacificnet.net>  <3245382a.1351978@news.pacificnet.net> <324837da.20309452@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:34:15 GMT
Lines: 26

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The missing rabbis, Mr.Keren?

Tommy, what's all this about? The Nazis made a list,
which I posted, of priests who were imprisoned and died
in Dachau. The list doesn't contain rabbis, as they are
not priests. If there was a Nazi law that dead rabbis
should be listed together with dead priests, please
inform us.

I can see that you are extermely troubled by this list,
and it's clear why. You want people to think that Nazis
were not really bad, right? The fact that they killed
all these priests doesn't help you.

You're terribly upset, thinking "hey, all these Christians
reading this will now hate the Nazis, damned, what to do?".

Well, gosh, Tommy, I'm sorry about that. But don't
complain to me. I didn't kill any priests. It was the
Nazis. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68963 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'I only gassed them'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 21:42:14 GMT
Lines: 27

Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
[Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On orders from my department, I too drove a gas-van from Berlin to
Minsk. These vans had been constructed with a lockable cargo
compartment, like a moving van.
 
 .
 .
 .

I was detailed with the gas-van to about twelve convoys of arriving
Jews. It was in 1942. There were about a thousand Jews in each
convoy. With each arrival I made five or six trips with my van.
Some of the Jews were shot. I myself never shot a single Jew; I
only gassed them.

 .
 .
 .

A ghetto operation took place in the autumn of 1943. I was put into
action only once with the gas-van. I made three trips with it to the
execution site. I gassed about 150 to 180 people. 



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68965 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <52d985$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:59:18 GMT
Lines: 28

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
##  [Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
##  Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
##  VIII, p. 313-321]
##  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
##  Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

# Whatever his interrogators told him.

In desperation, nazi-boy here returns to the old "they told
him what to say". Just after I posted an excerpt in which a 
Nazi on trial accuses the prosecutor of lying. I guess they 
also told her to say that?

Proof for your assertion? Zero, of course. 

Dr. Muench also talked about Auschwitz many years after
the war, including an interview he gave to Swedish TV. They
also "told him" what to say, eh, nazi-boy?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68972 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: More 'Revisionist' Lies About the Trials
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 09:23:34 GMT
Lines: 59

Another "revisionist" myth about the trials of Nazi war
criminals is "the defense team was not allowed to
cross-examine and challenge the survivors".

Like all other "revisionist" claims, this is a total
and complete lie.

The defense was very much permitted to challenge the witnesses; 
one just needs to look at "The Belsen Trial" to see that the
defense team challenged the evidence against the accused SS-men
and women, with no less vigor than any attorney, and that they
treated the survivors who testified just as any attorney in
any trial would have. Just like any defense attorney, they
tried to undermine the reliability of the survivors.

Some examples for the conduct of the defense team:

P. 136 -  the witness Sompolinski is cross-examined by
Major Winwood:

 "You allege that two friends were shot by [commandant of
Birkenau and later Belsen] Kramer. When did you think of
this story?"

 "When I was wounded myself"

 "I suggest that you first thought of this story about five
minutes before you mentioned it?"

 "That is not true".



P. 524: Major Munro, defending SS-officer Franz Hoessler,
describes the testimonies (about Hoessler) of survivors
Sompolinski and Litwinska as "rather absurd" and "fantastic".

P. 129: Major Cranfield cross-examines survivor Helen Klein; 
accuses her of "deliberate exaggeration" in her testimony
against Irma Grese.

P. 515: Major Winwood, in his speech, states that the affidavit
of survivor Regina Bialek (accusing defendant Kraft of murder)
is "completely without weight".

P. 521-2: Major Munro suggests that the young Jewish women who
testified about crimes of the SS-men and women were "revengeful,
possibly vindictive".

P. 535: Major Cranfield claims that most of the witnesses
who testified to crimes committed by the SS-men and women
are "uneducated", and that "all through the case the
evidence had been embroidered and exaggerated", because
the conditions in which the witnesses lived affected their
mental state.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 18:18:22 PDT 1996
Article: 69095 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Can't read (again!) (Was Re: Holocaust Specifications For "Proof")
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <323c290d.4191107@news.pacificnet.net>  <52cbkb$163@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <324A8420.2781@itsa.ucsf.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:45:37 GMT
Lines: 16

########## No!  Not another Python cascade!  The horror!
######### You're no fun anymore!
######## Yes I am.
####### No you're not.
###### Yes he is
##### No he isn't
#### Oh, look, this is ridiculous
### No it isn't
## It is, you know.
# Oh no it isn't.

But you knew that.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 18:18:22 PDT 1996
Article: 69099 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <527fua$1ma@news.enter.net> <52dg4a$g8m@juliana.sprynet.com> 
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:02:32 GMT
Lines: 23

mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

# Perhaps, to clean up this issue, Herr Schwarzesel would be
# so kind as to supply the excerpt from the _Belsen Trial_ that
# states the British "brought potable [sic] generators with them?"

"To restore the water supply we utilized the fire pumps and
hose which we found inside the camp to pump water from a river
to the camp itself".

[...]

"Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
in that camp?"

"I can think of none".

Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, "The Belsen Trial",
p. 54.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 19:25:58 PDT 1996
Article: 69133 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'rblackmore', the Judge (Re: Bill Harmon's Question)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52dfju$g8m@juliana.sprynet.com> <52duil$lcm@news.enter.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:43:10 GMT
Lines: 38

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

# No, the river which was not polluted which *you* state
# Kramer thought was polluted.  Where is your evidence
# for this?

I also recall that Kramer said he suspected the river
was polluted. "rblackmore" thinks it's a good enough
excuse.

Can you imagine, "rblackmore" as a judge in the Belsen Trial?

 "Mr. Kramer, why didn't you give water to the inmates? Do
you know that thousands died of thirst"?

 "Well, your honor, I was going to, but I accidentally
locked myself in the bathroom, and couldn't get out
for two weeks. Also, I thought the river was polluted".

 "Well, about having locked yourself in the bathroom, I'll
accept your word on that. But the water, you know, is
actually fit to drink".

 "Well, your honor, I am sorry. I didn't want to take any
chances with the inmates' health".

 "Well, Mr. Kramer, I see your point, and I am dropping
all charges against you. But do try, next time, to actually
test the water. Ok?"

 "Sure, your honor".

 "Ok. Next case... Adolf Hitler? I've read the material, and
didn't find any damning evidence. Case dismissed. Next?"


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 20:28:05 PDT 1996
Article: 69133 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'rblackmore', the Judge (Re: Bill Harmon's Question)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <52dfju$g8m@juliana.sprynet.com> <52duil$lcm@news.enter.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:43:10 GMT
Lines: 38

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

# No, the river which was not polluted which *you* state
# Kramer thought was polluted.  Where is your evidence
# for this?

I also recall that Kramer said he suspected the river
was polluted. "rblackmore" thinks it's a good enough
excuse.

Can you imagine, "rblackmore" as a judge in the Belsen Trial?

 "Mr. Kramer, why didn't you give water to the inmates? Do
you know that thousands died of thirst"?

 "Well, your honor, I was going to, but I accidentally
locked myself in the bathroom, and couldn't get out
for two weeks. Also, I thought the river was polluted".

 "Well, about having locked yourself in the bathroom, I'll
accept your word on that. But the water, you know, is
actually fit to drink".

 "Well, your honor, I am sorry. I didn't want to take any
chances with the inmates' health".

 "Well, Mr. Kramer, I see your point, and I am dropping
all charges against you. But do try, next time, to actually
test the water. Ok?"

 "Sure, your honor".

 "Ok. Next case... Adolf Hitler? I've read the material, and
didn't find any damning evidence. Case dismissed. Next?"


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 20:28:05 PDT 1996
Article: 69138 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: David Irving: Hear him YOURSELF, via the Internet!!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32433d6c.14269405@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <5253df$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <3249add4.3824537@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <52ek6k$977@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:07:37 GMT
Lines: 18

ursus_m@ix.netcom.com (Ursus Major) writes:
# libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

## Would you like to name one German who was hanged for the
## Katyn massacre?
##
## Just one, George.  That's all you need.

# I'm sorry, Bill I do not have the list

You don't? Poor old slob. Even Joseph McCarthy had a list.
You folks are going from bad to worse.

Yo, Giwer, give this guy the list...


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 20:28:06 PDT 1996
Article: 69144 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <5279q3$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5299bo$fff@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <52el36$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:21:56 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But holohuggers do not even go that far.  They find a
# picture, however innocuous say of two students standing
# in front of the class, and caption it something like
# "Jewish children berated in front of class" when there
# is not the least indication of their race or religion or
# that they are being berated in the picture.

Of course, the Giwer forgot that something is written on
the blackboard behind the two students.

What does it say, Matty? You didn't bother to check, right?

I'm following this with the uuencoded photo.

# So you see, it is even easier to create holocaust pictures
# than UFO pictures.

So says the Giwer, who continues to cite the web page of
Ernst Zundel, a man who published a photograph allegedly
taken inside a "German UFO control bunker"...

Amazing.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 26 20:28:07 PDT 1996
Article: 69145 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Eyes They Have, But They Cannot See (Re: Holoca
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <5279q3$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5299bo$fff@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <52el36$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:25:46 GMT
Lines: 1110

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But holohuggers do not even go that far.  They find a
# picture, however innocuous say of two students standing
# in front of the class, and caption it something like
# "Jewish children berated in front of class" when there
# is not the least indication of their race or religion or
# that they are being berated in the picture.

This is the photo the Giwer's talking about.

Note the writing on the blackboard.

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M\\9_.IN].CYW \C(_D*>GWP.W']*.H_K2@9XJ0$DD$\8_K2,2"<''%+ M/]P_C4G\.?I42]":XGXM.R^&9 K$ AP0#UXKYVV*+:=0HVB=0!C@#RWXJC&B GI=2!%51Y:# &.JFJ6E.QUZ%2Q*F4#&>,9%>I>1%_SS3_ +Y%?__9 end From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 00:54:28 PDT 1996 Article: 69195 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Unemployed Traitors (Re: holohugging traitors) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <51caqf$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <3249f051.2197219@news.awinc.com> <52et9p$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:40:30 GMT Lines: 15 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # I agree that there is no difference between the Nazis # and the Israeli A lame attempt to divert from the fact that "revisionists" are Nazi-apologists, that is, they lie on behalf of, and defend, those who murdered American POW's in cold blood. And these bastards call others "traitors"? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 00:54:29 PDT 1996 Article: 69201 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:36:42 GMT Lines: 45 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # The four pieces of physical evidence of the extermination # of 12 million people. Well, he forgot all the other documents, and the gas chambers, and the huge numbers of corpses and human remains, and the photographs, but never mind... # 1) Ausrotten speech, suspected of being by Himmler, # exists only as a recording, A lie. # not known if ever presented Only in Giwer's world (the one in which Belsen Camp is in Poland, remember). # 2) Wannsee Protocol, which discusses forced emigration And explicitly states that the Jews "fit for work" will evenatually all be killed. # 3) Vergassnungkeller letter, which uses a word form theretofore # unknown in the German language that is construed to mean gas # chamber despite the composing words and the structure of the # sentence in which it is used. Huh? "Vergassnungkeller" = "gassing cellar". Refers to Krema II, in which the gas chamber was indeed underground. # 4) insecticide traces, enough said Cyanide traces, actually. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:35 PDT 1996 Article: 69262 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: ARTICLE BY BUTZ Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:41:27 GMT Lines: 42 Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16 May 1942 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers by putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small van and two on each side of the large vans, such as one often sees on farm houses in the country. The vans became so well known, that not only the authorities but also the civilian population called the van "death van", as soon as one of these vehicles appeared. It is my opinion the van cannot be kept secret for any length of time, not even camouflaged... Besides that, I ordered that during application of gas all the men were to be kept as far away from the vans as possible, so they should not suffer damage to their health by the gas which eventually would escape. I should like to take this opportunity to bring the following to your attention: several commands have had the unloading after the application of gas done by their own men. I brought to the attention of those S.K [Special Kommando] concerned the immense psychological injuries and damages involved to their health that this work can have for those men, even if not immediately, at least later on. The men complained to me about head-aches which appeared after each unloading. Nevertheless they don't want to change the orders, because they are afraid prisoners called for that work could use an opportune moment to flee. To protect the men from these damages, I request orders to be issued accordingly. The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My directions have now proved that by correct adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer noticed. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:36 PDT 1996 Article: 69263 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Anne Frank WAS NOT GASSED Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:39:52 GMT Lines: 36 Jeffrey writes: # Known around the world for her famous diary # [her diary is a FAKE, the creation of her father - JR], In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation submitted Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity. The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used-- the ink, paper, glue, etc.--and the handwriting and issued a report of some 270 pages. "The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted." Furthermore, that "despite corrections and omissions..._The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ [i.e., the published version of the diaries] does indeed contain `the essence' of Anne's writings, and that there are no grounds on which the term `forgery' can be applied to the work of the editors or publishers of the book." <1> 1. Anne Frank, _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank:_The_Critical_Edition_, Prepared by the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation, edited by David Barnouw and Gerrold Van Der Stroom, (New York, Doubleday, 1989) p. 166. # Several weeks later, in the face of the advancing Soviet # army, Anne --along with thousands of other Jewish prisoners -- # was evacuated by rail from Auschwitz more than four hundred # miles westward to the Bergen-Belsen camp in northwestern Germany. In which she was murdered. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:36 PDT 1996 Article: 69264 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <843675802snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <52fg4h$efp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:46:01 GMT Lines: 23 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: [About the alleged bombing of the King David Hotel some 50 years ago] # You mean that Jew terrorists did not plant a bomb there # and kill Brits for no reason other than terroism? Either provide the physical evidence for this alleged bombing or shut your trap. You started this game, now play it. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:37 PDT 1996 Article: 69268 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: HOMOCIDAL GAS CHAMBERS ARE PROPAGANDA FICTION Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:26:42 GMT Lines: 34 Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943 [The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation should be ready by February 20th. http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/ Vergasungskeller.jpg Document mentioning the "gassing cellar" in Krema II in Birkenau. Gas_Detector.jpg Letter asking to deliver detectors for cyanide gas to crematorium in Birkenau. Krema4.jpg Crematorium no. 4 in Birkenau. krema5-01.jpg Crematorium no. 5 in Birkenau. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:38 PDT 1996 Article: 69285 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Matt Giwered Again (Re: Israel murdered again) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <5249j9$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <324718ED.7987@unb.ca> <52ad4b$8u1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 10:54:42 GMT Lines: 32 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Keith Morrison wrote: ## That is distinctly odd. I could have sworn Giwer said ## that no one in Israel used Hebrew except in religious worship. # I said that 1 in 100 SPEAK it. Again: this statement, probably, classifies you as someone who is mad enough to be hospitalized in an asylum. It's the official language, Matty. It's like English in the US. Give it up, you sorry old nutcase. # http://www.webcom.com/~zundel It fits that a nutcase should advertise the web site of someone who claims that the Nazi leadership escaped into the inner earth via a "hole in the South-Pole". Seek help. Maybe, after a few years of treatment, you will be stable enough to find a job - you poor, crazed slob. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:39 PDT 1996 Article: 69288 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52bvl1$n5r@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52es18$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 23:58:07 GMT Lines: 29 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69288 alt.conspiracy:92589 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # At least two holohuggers have so far agreed that Keren is an # idiot on the subject. Matty is suffering from split personality. # You obviously are an idiot also. And he's talking to himself. # Now where are all the rabbis? Why would there be rabbis on the list? Who said any were deported to Dachau? # http://www.webcom.com/~zundel Matty still considers a nut, who claims that the Nazi leadership fled to the inner earth via a hole in the South-Pole, using "secret UFO's", a reliable source on history. But then Matty is mentally retarded, insane, and senile. So why am I not surprised? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:39 PDT 1996 Article: 69289 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!news.dfci.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!canopus.hbs.edu!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <529t7i$iur@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:42:01 GMT Lines: 35 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images ## ## Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg: ## ## The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis. # Another Nazi miracle, no signs of fire damage but # burned alive. Everyone can visit the web site and check for him/herself. # What an asshole. Yawn. Get a job, loser. # Read the information holohuggers fear # http://www.webcom.com/~zundel We really fear crazies who claim that the Nazi leadership escaped into the inner earth via a "hole in the South-Pole", using "secret UFO's". Hell, Zundel even claimed to have met the scientists who built the "UFO's"... Poor old Giwer. Poor old Zundel. All dressed up, and nowhere to go. Standing on the porch, waiting for the UFO to come. How terribly sad. Giwer probably thinks that someone in the secret base in the South-Pole will be willing to hire him... no one else seems to be willing. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:40 PDT 1996 Article: 69309 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Jahring letter a forgery. Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com> <323e1a8e.603090@news.inetport.com> <52a3hb$fj3@access5.digex.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:14:24 GMT Lines: 56 Jeffrey writes: # I think here that that it seems that the Jahring # document, which suggests over 4000 cadavers could be # cremated in one day is a forgery. Any proof that it's a forgery? Nahhh... "we're 'revisionists', we don't need proof! What we say is true and that's it". http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/ furnace-capacity.jpg Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses in 24 working hours. # Even Mr Keren, finds the figures quoted in this document # totally at odds with reality. Yet we have another proof that "Jeffrey" is a bloody liar. I never said anything like this. # It is of very great weight that as Mr David Irving pointed # out that the document has a "janatorial" security rating, And if so? It discusses only the cremation, not the gas chambers. Ah, David Irving... The same person who was taken to court for what he wrote in his book about "PQ17". Maybe "Jeffrey" wants to remind us what the court decided? The same person who discusses in his book a document about killing with poison gas "Jews unfit for work", and later, (as "Jeffrey" himself posted), said in court (during the Zundel Trial) that he never saw any order for the extermination of Jews. You can take everything Mr. Irving says, and place it where the sun doesn't shine, "Jeffrey". That's the only fitting place for his rubbish. # CHECK OUT THESE WEB SITES # ERNST ZUNDEL http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english Ah... Zundel... the same fellow who claims the Nazi leadership escaped the Reich, and used "secret UFO's" to escape into the inner earth via a "hole in the South-Pole". You people should seek help. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:41 PDT 1996 Article: 69311 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.tbcnet.com!news.nap.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: NUREMBURG TRIALs A LYNCHING PARTY no 2 Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:38:49 GMT Lines: 38 This is excerpted from "The Belsen Trial", p. 254-6. The accused is SS-woman Irma Grese; she is interrogated by Colonel Backhouse about her crimes in Auschwitz-Birkenau. Note how she responds to the questions. Only a "revisionist" nut would claim that this exchange could have taken place at a "show trial". Colonel Backhouse: I suggest to you that you gave evidence at an enquiry against a guard who had refused to shoot people crossing the wire on the grounds that you had sent them over deliberately? Grese: You can think what you like, but it is a lie, and it is wrong. [...] Colonel Backhouse: Gertrud Diament [a survivor] in her deposition said that your favorite habit was to beat women until they fell to the ground and then kick them as hard as you could with your heavy boots? Grese: That is a lie. Perhaps it is her habit to lie. So, an accused Nazi calling the survivors, and a senior member of the British counsel for the prosecution, "liars". Gee. And our "revisionist scholars" have been telling us all along that these were "show trials", in which the accused Nazis were "told what to say", bla-bla. "Revisionists". What a bunch of low-life Nazi liars. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:42 PDT 1996 Article: 69315 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: HITLER SAID THE JEWS ARE THE BIG LIARS Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:21:45 GMT Lines: 8 Yep. He also expresses, in the same book, his desire to see Jews murdered by poison gas. What a "coincidence", ah, "Jeffrey"? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:42 PDT 1996 Article: 69318 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!spring.edu.tw!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: The blows and screams were endless..... Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:30:00 GMT Lines: 48 The "revisionists" often claim that the memoir of Rudolph Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz, was "dictated" to him during his trial in Poland. According to the "revisionists", the Poles and Soviets told Hoess what to write. Naturally, they offer no proof of this. Looking at the memoir, we see that Hoess writes, among other things, that: 1) The Soviet POW's in Auschwitz behaved like a herd of animals. Hoess writes that they practiced cannibalism, and often killed each other for a piece of bread. Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Soviets would "dictate" something like this to Hoess? Hoess also writes that - 2) The Polish inmates were constantly engaged in violent clashes among themselves, while trying to reach a higher status in the inmate hierarchy. He even says that many of them intentionally infected others with spotted fever and typhus, which resulted in the death of the infected person. Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles would "dictate" something like this to Hoess? Hoess also writes that - 3) The total number of deaths in Auschwitz was about 1.2 million (a rather accurate estimation). But the Soviets and the Poles claimed at that time, and years later, that 4 million people were murdered in the camp. Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles and Soviets would "dictate" to Hoess a figure far lower than the one they gave? Had they "dictated" his memoir to him, they would obviously tell him to give a figure similar to theirs. But Hoess not only gives a far lower figure, he also mocks the higher estimates! The obvious conclusion is that Hoess' memoir was not "dictated" to him. The claim that it was is just one more insane "revisionist" conjecture, unsupported by any evidence and contradicting basic logic. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:43 PDT 1996 Article: 69323 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: HOMOCIDAL GAS CHAMBERS ARE PROPAGANDA FICTION Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:28:14 GMT Lines: 10 Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943 [Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434] ----------------------------------------------------------------- ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door 100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:44 PDT 1996 Article: 69324 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3247f649.3524811@news.pacificnet.net> <52flee$efp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:09:20 GMT Lines: 39 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Sorry to break it to you but the claim of where they are only # exists as testimony and has NEVER been confirmed by excavation # or site sampling save for one case the Keren loves claiming # that flesh and hair was intact for YEARS prior to excavation. I have no idea what the unemployed bum is ranting about. I did mention the fact that large amounts of human remains were discovered in some camps, including Treblinka and Maidanek; also, large numbers of corpses were discovered. For instance http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp. # Obviously Keren is an idiot but that is the only claim to # verification of burial sites. Obviously Giwer claims to have an IQ of 163 but has been unemployed since he was 46-years-old, as he proudly declares. HA HA HA. # In case you missed it. There is NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of # this holocaust whatsoever. There's far more physical evidence for the Holocaust than for, say, the bombing of Dresden, Stalin's atrocities, and most other historical events. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:44 PDT 1996 Article: 69325 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holohuggers might like to steal this one without permission as jew criminals - menor2.jpg (1/1) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52fm95$efp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:47:38 GMT Lines: 11 Matty - what is this supposed to mean? Did you create this file? If you're so talented... WHY CAN'T YOU GET A JOB?? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:45 PDT 1996 Article: 69328 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: NUREMBURG TRIALs A LYNCHING PARTY no 2 Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:35:46 GMT Lines: 26 Jeffrey writes: # Nuremberg defendant Julius Streicher, who was eventually hanged # because he published a sometimes sensational anti-Jewish weekly paper, # was brutally mistreated following his arrest. He was badly beaten, # kicked, whipped, spat at, forced to drink saliva and burned with # cigarettes. His genitals were beaten. Eyebrow and chest hair was # pulled out. He was stripped and photographed. Any proof whatsoever for all this rubbish? Not some crap from the "JHR", but a photograph, a reliable testimony, report by a doctor? # Fellow defendant Hans Frank was savagely beaten by two # black GIs shortly after his arrest. Proof? # August Eigruber, former Gauleiter of Upper Austria, was # mutilated and castrated at the end of the war. (note 78) Proof? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:46 PDT 1996 Article: 69337 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: ARTICLE BY BUTZ Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:40:41 GMT Lines: 37 Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941 [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California Press, 1984, p. 70] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr. Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there. Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich [Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as to any further measures you take. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 08:57:47 PDT 1996 Article: 69338 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: 'The strain on the furnaces was colossal' Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3247ea8f.522336@news.pacificnet.net> <52el30$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <324b6b82.38066490@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:18:10 GMT Lines: 41 Testimony of Engineer Karl Schultze [Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming >from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993] --------------------------------------------------------------------- Q. What was your personal part in these "Krema" building operation and what was Prufer's part? A. Prufer was an expert. he designed and constructed these crematoriums and led the building operations in the concentration camps. I was responsible for the ventilation systems and for its air injection into the muffles. In specific instances, I led the installation operations personally. I personally led the installation work in Auschwitz crematoriums and gas chambers. For this purpose, I traveled to Auschwitz three times in 1943. . . . I did not know that in the crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau innocent human beings were being liquidated. I thought criminals were being killed there who who had partly been sentenced to death because of the crimes they had committed against the German army in Poland and other occupied territories. I am a German and supported and am supporting the Government in Germany and the laws of our Government. Whoever opposes our laws is an enemy of the State, because our laws establish him a such. I did not act on personal initiative but as directed by Ludwig Topf. I was afraid of losing my position and of possible arrest. Q. Your views do not really differ from the views of a Nazi. A. No, I was not a member of the NSDAP [National Socialist German Workers Party]. I only respected and acted according to the laws of my country. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 12:19:54 PDT 1996 Article: 87165 of soc.culture.german Newsgroups: talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.nordic,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: German hegemony over Europe through the European Union Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:58:57 GMT Lines: 24 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.european-union:5971 soc.culture.nordic:47133 soc.culture.german:87165 Nazi-boy Kreiberg rides again... From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Aug 13 15:02:39 EDT 1996 Article: 111755 of alt.revisionism # Danish citizens would of course not be deported. However some # people will lose their Danish citizenship because they no longer # qualify ethnically. Having lost their citizenship and not been # granted a residence permit they will have their status changed # to illegal aliens and then treated accordingly. From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Aug 20 14:57:46 EDT 1996 Article: 113212 of alt.revisionism # However, these camps are supposed to inspire it's inmates # to leave the country as quick as possible. Therefore they # should of course not be too attractive. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 15:17:53 PDT 1996 Article: 69355 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Photographs from MAIDANEK Camp Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:58:29 GMT Lines: 13 http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images maidanek-01.jpg Shoes of the victims piled up in Maidanek camp. maidanek-02.jpg Burned corpses of Maidanek inmates. Maidanek_Crematorium.jpg The crematorium in Maidanek. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 15:17:55 PDT 1996 Article: 69399 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!nntp.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!news.dfci.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!canopus.hbs.edu!news-in.tiac.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Fatbroad T-shirt Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <51rtd6$674@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <529dku$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52esi5$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:10:55 GMT Lines: 32 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # And if used in that mode the buildings would have been # fire traps. Garbage. # When you provide the names and addresses of all the "witnesses" For starters: Stangl, Matthes, Franz, Munzerburger, Mentz, Horn, Suchomel, Lambert. Just quoting from memory. All these were SS-men from the camp and their testimony is, of course, worth infinitely more than that of someone who was watching the camp from a distance # In any event, you are full of shit. In any event, you're a miserable bastard who has been unemployed since he was 46-years-old, and is apparently proud of it. # Speculation your ass. This is a clear description of someone # who saw the steam generating equipment in operation. So what's his name? The 1942 report of the Polish Underground I refer to clearly states that they cannot tell how the people are being murdered, and suggests that, *possibly*, steam is being used. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 27 15:17:56 PDT 1996 Article: 69423 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: dig up the bodies and burn them Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52ffqe$efp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:10:31 GMT Lines: 47 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Ever wonder why the story always includes digging up # the bodies and burning them? Not always, although this was done in a few locations; main reason was that the Nazis knew they're going to lose the war, and therefore tried to erase the traces of their crimes. # Read the information holohuggers fear # http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg Web site of Hitler admirer, who wrote (on GEnie) that "Hitler was a great man", and "the best thing that could have happened to Germany" # http://www.webcom.com/~zundel Web site of an insane person, who believes that the Nazi leadership fled the Reich using "secret UFO's", and are now hiding in the inner earth, which they entered via a "hole in the South-Pole". He even claims to have met some of the scientists who built the "UFO's"... http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers Contains both text and images from Zundel's publications about these "UFO's". Quoted from one of these publications (see saucers.text): "During the course of our research, we have discovered some of the original German flying saucer scientists who are still alive! These space pioneers are, of course, old men now in their 70s and 80s. Our interviews with them will be incorporated into our regular lecture program as well as into our future books". This is *not* a joke; these are the opinions of "leading Holocaust revisionist", Ernst Zundel, whose web page Matt Giwer considers to be an authority on the history of WW2. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 09:32:26 PDT 1996 Article: 69600 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <23SEP199610242269@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <52a7jm$3v7o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 09:45:27 GMT Lines: 12 Gord McFee writes: # Just a cotton pickin' minute here. I played a key role in the # creation of the FB, and Keren gets to be an honorary FB? What # kind of double standard is this? That's cuz the Giwer called me "fat". You want to be a FB, try harder, or settle for an "HS" :-). -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 09:32:27 PDT 1996 Article: 69614 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!news1.good.net!news.good.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <843675802snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:47:27 GMT Lines: 22 A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes: # Don't forget that in 1616 Sylvie de la Plaine testified that # the Devil's semen is cold. You don't say. BTW, don't forget the lunatics who make all kinds of claims about "British paratroopers" being "killed in their sleep (!!)" in Palestine. # And that two million Americans believe they have been abducted # by aliens. And quite a few Brits still believe in this trash about the King David Hotel being "blown up"... There are sure strange people in this world. You see how easy it is, Al? Now, seriously - will you *ever* move forward? Frankly, I'm starting to despair of you. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 09:32:27 PDT 1996 Article: 69617 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52hctm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:33:48 GMT Lines: 27 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # We have been over all of those. They have not withstood # critical examinaiton. Since when is a senile, unemployed since the age of 46 bum, who thinks Belsen camp was in Poland, an authority on Nazi documents? What is this? Some joke? Wake up, Matty. # Pay attention to the conference jew traitor. "Traitor"? If there are any traitors here, they are the "revisionist" Nazi scum who apologize for and lie on behalf of the Nazis, murderers in cold blood of American POW's. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 10:36:41 PDT 1996 Article: 69629 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Why I don't believe the Holocuast Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:17:39 GMT Lines: 25 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69629 alt.christnet:109547 soc.culture.german:87272 Beth writes: # I was married for 7 years to a Jew,(Ira) and lived # in Israel for most of them. When people thought I was # Jewish,they spoke openly. Most don't believe the Holocaust # any more than Enst Zundel. Please post their names, so we ask them and verify your claim. # And then there are all those brave Nazi hunters in Israel. But you said they don't believe the Holocaust took place... # MY God, the Jews really DO worship Lucifer. It's not an # anti-semitic lie that they are the seed of Satin. It's # true and you can read any of the Talmud to prove it. Oh, another one of those. Where on earth do these crazies come from? Some Mengele experiment out of control? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 11:09:30 PDT 1996 Article: 69635 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists? Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52ej6r$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52h66h$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 16:35:57 GMT Lines: 59 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:102992 alt.revisionism:69635 soc.culture.europe:48333 soc.culture.german:87273 Giwer wants to kill people who disagree with him about historical facts --------------------------------------- Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty, in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to kill me himself. Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech". Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer for all of this. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism [Giwer writes to me] # Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you # first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the # US above all others. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism # Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and # a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to # the US. # # The curse is upon him. # # He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US # Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a # security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they # are no loyal Americans. # # They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans. # # Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism [Giwer writes to me] # May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your # apart. May you know death from drowning. # And may you live to suffer all again and again until the # end of time and from then into eternity. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 16:04:38 PDT 1996 Article: 69640 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.lebanon Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Murder, Uber Alles Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52f385$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <324B1C4F.1268@temple.co.il> <52huhc$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:32:01 GMT Lines: 39 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69640 soc.culture.jewish:77739 soc.culture.israel:44490 soc.culture.lebanon:25978 Crazy Matt Giwer, who still claims that English is the language spoken in Israel, posts the addresses of the web sites of Greg Raven and Ernst Zundel, who supply the Nazi perspective of the history of WW2. Raven stated, on GEnie, that Hitler was a "great man", and "the best thing that could have happened to Germany". The madman Ernst Zundel claims that the Nazi leadership escaped Germany in the end of WW2, using "secret UFO's", and fled into the inner earth via a hole in the South-Pole. It's fitting that a madman like Giwer would view Zundel as a reliable source on the history of WW2. In the meanwhile, you can look at the web sites which show images that our little Nazis don't want you to see: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/ohrdruf/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 16:04:39 PDT 1996 Article: 69644 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Israel provokes the end of peace Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52f6q1$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52g5vf$git@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <52iaf5$6u3@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:59:09 GMT Lines: 32 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69644 soc.culture.jewish:77747 Before you bother to read anything the crazed Matt Giwer has to say, bear in mind that he recommends the web site of Ernst Zundel as a reliable source on the history of the Second World War. See the web site http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers Which contains both text and images from Zundel's publications about these "UFO's". Quoted from one of these publications (see saucers.text): "During the course of our research, we have discovered some of the original German flying saucer scientists who are still alive! These space pioneers are, of course, old men now in their 70s and 80s. Our interviews with them will be incorporated into our regular lecture program as well as into our future books". This is *not* a joke; these are the opinions of "leading Holocaust revisionist", Ernst Zundel, whose web page Matt Giwer considers to be an authority on the history of WW2. It's only fitting for a madman like Giwer to endorse a madman like Zundel. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 16:04:40 PDT 1996 Article: 69685 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.icix.net!newsfeed.gil.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Yom Kippur Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52f6ht$22l@access5.digex.net> <52i92t$6u3@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:39:31 GMT Lines: 39 Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony Which Does Not Exist -------------------- Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago. Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie". The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one, and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it. # In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the # trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and # Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000 # Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been # gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp. Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying. Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable request is to spam the group by reposting something totally unrelated. But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic, miserable liar like Giwer. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 17:46:10 PDT 1996 Article: 69708 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: 'Show Trials'? No, Just Another 'Revisionist' Lie Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <843761983snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:49:49 GMT Lines: 25 A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes: # As someone who has read the entire transcript - not just # the book - I can confirm that the defence mustered by the # British military lawyers was, up to a point, vigorous. It # is my impression that they, especially Backhouse and # Winwood, did their best for their clients within certain # parameters. Thank you for admitting that the "revisionist" claim about "show trials" is a lie. # One other thing is bothering me Dan. Where is the document # Winwood promised to produce in connection with the gassings? # Ie the order Hoess gave to Kramer not to interfere with them. In what page of the book is this? Anyway, Winwood was *defending* Kramer, right? You're saying he was willing to go so far so as to lie for his client? That's his problem, not mine. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 17:46:11 PDT 1996 Article: 69712 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <52el36$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52hrfe$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:59:10 GMT Lines: 15 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: [About the photograph I posted] ## What does it say, Matty? You didn't bother to ## check, right? # I did. It does not identify the two students. What does it say, unemployed bum? Answer the question. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 17:46:12 PDT 1996 Article: 69718 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52hctm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <324cade8.25365758@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <52jmgo$7b6@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:59:22 GMT Lines: 17 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # but finding traces of it, particularly when there was a delousing # chamber in LK I is not evidence that it was used on people. Are you now claiming that LK1 - the gas chamber - was a delousing chamber? -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 17:46:12 PDT 1996 Article: 69722 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder. Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <324C017A.435D@tor250.org> <91c7cc$93510.1e@news.comet.net> <52k3th$pp5@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:15:06 GMT Lines: 18 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:103036 alt.revisionism:69722 soc.culture.europe:48356 soc.culture.german:87293 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Two former Israeli military officers have come forward to # tell their inside stories confirming survivors' charges # that the attack was no accident. I've heard this before; never are their names given, nor is any evidence or any source to what they allegedly said ever provided. One name which was indeed provided is Seth Mintz, however he believes the attack was a mistake, as he told me himself, when I was studying this matter in 1992. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 17:46:13 PDT 1996 Article: 69731 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52hctm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:38:33 GMT Lines: 40 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: ### 2) Wannsee Protocol, which discusses forced emigration ## And explicitly states that the Jews "fit for work" will ## eventually all be killed. # What does that have to do with TWELVE (12) million, The document states that Jews "fit for work" will all be killed, in order to prevent a "germ cell of a new Jewish development". This is clearly a genocidal statement, which can only be interpreted as an intention to kill all Jews. The earlier Wetzel-to-Lohse document states that the Jews "unfit for work" will be killed with poison gas. You seem to agree that the Wannsee Protocol states that the Jews "fit for work" will be killed? # jew traitor? If I ever hire you and put an end to your long and frustrating period of unemployment, will you like me, or will I still be a "jew traitor"? # You holohuggers were kind enough to post the meaning of the word # and it is not what you claim it is, lying jew traitor. It means "gassing cellar", a term used because in that Krema the gas chamber was indeed underground. Now, you said that the correct term to use would have been "gaskammer" (gas chamber), but this term appears in the construction documents of Krema V. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 18:01:34 PDT 1996 Article: 93326 of alt.conspiracy Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.enst-zundel,alt.california,alt.politics.misc,alt.christnet,alt.conspiracy Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: NIZKOR and McVay are afraid to debate Winston Smith !!!!!! Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52ivn1$ija@news.ios.com> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:34:26 GMT Lines: 20 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69742 alt.california:28076 alt.christnet:109679 alt.conspiracy:93326 Greg Matson writes: There has already been a forgery posted from "Gramercy.ios.com" today, traced back to one of "huber" nazi-boys. And, what do you know, it also had the following spelling error: "alt.fan.enst-zundel" in the Newsgroup list ("enst" instead of "ernst"). You thought ZOG would miss that?? Boy you're stupid. # The super hero Ken McVay will not debate Winston Smith # on the fraud of the Holocaust. He-he, ha-ha. Learn to spell, nazi-boy. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 28 21:05:52 PDT 1996 Article: 69791 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52dfju$g8m@juliana.sprynet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:47:22 GMT Lines: 19 rblackmore@juno.com writes: # You have already received the answer, yet you pretend that # you did not. The British supplied water to the camp by piping # it in from the river running near the camp. The river which # Kramer thought was polluted. And the Nazis also probably thought the food in the stores nearby was contaminated, so they didn't give it to the inmates? And in Auschwitz, the SS probably thought the air was polluted, so they killed the deportees in order to prevent them from breathing it? Tell me - are you serious? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:29 PDT 1996 Article: 69919 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Yom Kippur Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52i92t$6u3@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52kmea$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:28:07 GMT Lines: 25 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:39:31 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel # Keren) wrote: ## Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony ## Which Does Not Exist ## -------------------- # The lying jew traitor posts again. The unemployed traitor posted a testimony which does not exist. Period. Note that he still has not produced the name of the person who allegedly gave this testimony. It's no wonder he has been unemployed since he was 46-years-old. Mentally retarded, AND senile, AND vulgar, AND a pathological liar. Who will hire him? Only the IHR. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:31 PDT 1996 Article: 69924 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Careful: If You Disagree With Giwer, He Wants You Dead Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:21:03 GMT Lines: 59 Giwer wants to kill people who disagree with him about historical facts --------------------------------------- Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty, in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to kill me himself. Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech". Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer for all of this. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism [Giwer writes to me] # Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you # first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the # US above all others. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996 Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism # Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and # a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to # the US. # # The curse is upon him. # # He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US # Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a # security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they # are no loyal Americans. # # They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans. # # Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism [Giwer writes to me] # May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your # apart. May you know death from drowning. # And may you live to suffer all again and again until the # end of time and from then into eternity. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:31 PDT 1996 Article: 69925 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <52hrfe$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52kkl9$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:22:04 GMT Lines: 19 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:59:10 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com # (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## What does it say, unemployed bum? Answer the question. # Irrelevent JEW TRAITOR. You can tell that the poor old unemployed clown gets mad, when he starts writing in caps. Answer the question, unemployed leech. What does the writing on the blackboard in that photo say? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:32 PDT 1996 Article: 69927 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Giwer the Coward (Re: Israel provokes the end of peace) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52f6q1$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52iaf5$6u3@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52kmrp$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:30:19 GMT Lines: 25 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # The lying jew traitor spams again. # # He appears upset by Zundel. You must be kidding. "Upset"? It's simply great that the world's best-known "Holocaust revisionist" also believes that the Nazis built "secret UFO's" and fled in them to the inner earth, via a hole in the South-Pole. http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers I mean, if you can believe that, Matty - as you probably do - you can also believe there was no Holocaust. But let's sharpen the question here, you unemployed traitorous leech. Zundel claims to have met German scientists who built the "secret UFO's". Now, either you believe that, or you agree he's lying. Which will it be? Answer the question, traitorous coward. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:33 PDT 1996 Article: 69929 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Giwer admits again that he is a troll.... Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52cljj$2bh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52jmvr$7b6@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:50:24 GMT Lines: 13 # In article <52jmvr$7b6@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, # mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote: Is Giwer really posting from worldnet, while making it appear as if he's posting from netcom? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:34 PDT 1996 Article: 69935 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52hctm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52kv22$o07@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:18:29 GMT Lines: 46 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: ## You seem to agree that the Wannsee Protocol states that ## the Jews "fit for work" will be killed? # Agreed. Well, there may be a trace of sanity in there after all. You agree that the Nazis decided to kill all Jews who were "fit for work". Why do you think they wanted to do that? What about the part that states they have to be killed in order to prevent a "germ cell for a new Jewish development"? Isn't this a clear-cut statement of genocide? Why do you think they would have killed them, and left the rest alone? What about the Wetzel document, stating that the Jews "unfit for work" will also be killed? # And as you know from looking at the aerial picture of all of # Birkenau there is no LK associated with either K IV of V. It was not an "LK", as the "K" stands for "Keller" (cellar). The gas chambers in these Kremas were above ground. They are clearly visible in http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/ krema5-01.jpg See also Krema4.jpg and Krema401.jpg in the same directory. Moreover, there is a mention of "gaskammer" (gas chamber) in the construction documents of Krema V. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:35 PDT 1996 Article: 69944 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52hjuj$l1u@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52kj3e$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:16:31 GMT Lines: 23 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69944 alt.conspiracy:93546 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # You are now saying the rabbis are not jews. What is it you # are trying to say? No. I asked you how do you know that rabbis were deported to Dachau. Not every Jew is a rabbi. Moreover, who says that the SS would put them in the same list as priests? That they would bother to list them at all? The fact that the Nazis deported and killed so many priests is driving our "revisionists" crazy. It's quite clear why. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:36 PDT 1996 Article: 69945 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52hjug$l1u@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52jqoe$r6b@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <52kj1d$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:11:52 GMT Lines: 35 Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths -------------------------------------------------------------------- Albanian 2 - 2 - - Belgian 46 1 3 33 9 Danish 5 5 - - - German 447 208 100 45 94 English 2 - 1 1 - French 156 5 4 137 10 Greek 2 - - 2 - Dutch 63 10 - 36 17 Italian 28 - 1 26 1 Lithuanian 3 - - 3 - Luxemburg 16 2 - 8 6 Norwegian 1 1 - - - Polish 1780 78 4 830 868 Rumanian 1 - - 1 - Jugoslavian 50 2 6 38 4 Spanish 1 - - 1 - Swiss 2 1 - - 1 Czechoslovakian 109 1 10 74 24 Hungarian 3 - - 3 - Stateless 3 - 1 2 - Roman Catholic 2579 Protestant 109 Greek Orthodox 22 Old Catholic and Maronite 8 Mohammedan 2 -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:36 PDT 1996 Article: 69947 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists? Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52h66h$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <843935755snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:09:22 GMT Lines: 19 A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes: [About Giwer's threats to kill me] # Why don't you ask him to apologise? I'm sure he didn't mean it. Of course he meant it. # The claim that the attack on the Liberty was an "accident" is not # tenable, in my humble opinion. And the British soldiers who died from "friendly fire" in the Gulf War? Do you also claim they were intentionally murdered by the Americans? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:37 PDT 1996 Article: 69951 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52jmgo$7b6@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52khu5$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:33:47 GMT Lines: 25 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:59:22 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel # Keren) wrote: ## Are you now claiming that LK1 - the gas chamber - was a delousing ## chamber? # Read VERY, VERY carefully, jew traitor. I said there was a # delousing chamber in LK I. The documentation for it was found in # Russia six years ago. No, unemployed traitor. No such documentation was found. If you claim it was, post a jpeg of the document, you lying traitorous scumbag. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:38 PDT 1996 Article: 69955 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Giwer and Zundel (Re: William Pierce: Hate for Profit) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <5243vn$2ku@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <52h7sm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52khol$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:43:36 GMT Lines: 22 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # And thus the jew traitor libels his betters. The unemployed traitor is lying. Everything I wrote about the "research" of "leading Holocaust revisionist", Ernst Zundel, is true; see http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers The fact remains that Giwer regards a madman, who claims the Nazis escaped into the inner earth via a hole in the South-Pole, using "secret UFO's", a reliable source on the history of the Second World War. Maybe the traitor hopes that someone in the "secret UFO base" Zundel talks about will finally hire him? No one else is apparently willing... -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:38 PDT 1996 Article: 69965 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <324DA16D.1AA0@unb.ca> <52kijd$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:58:42 GMT Lines: 29 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # The hull of the Liberty was quite sufficient. "Was"? Anyway, according to *your own standards*, traitor, the hull is most certainly not enough, as a "revisionist" like you could claim that the ship was attacked, but by someone else, not the IDF. This is an argument equivalent to your argument about the cyanide traces in the gas chambers. # But you know that. But you know that. You know that, using your very own "revisionist tactics", it's impossible to prove the ship was attacked by the IDF. And you know that you're a traitor to the most basic and sacred values America was founded upon, such as freedom of speech; by stating that people should be killed because they disagree with you about historical events, you are a traitor to these values. Shame on you, traitorous bastard. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 09:09:39 PDT 1996 Article: 69968 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: THE MANY-FACED ILYA EHRENBURG Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52khfn$p0h@faith.total.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 09:05:18 GMT Lines: 22 jtoth@infobahnos.com (Judith Toth) writes: [Alleged quotes from the writing of Ilya Ehrenburg] # The above article was written by Mark Weber in The Journal of # Historical Review, But of course. The "journal" of the "Institute for Historical Review", a tiny, crackpot organization of Nazi-apologists, run by Greg Raven, who describes Hitler as a "great man" and "the best thing that could have happened to Germany". Needless to say, an organization which does not have one historian among its members. This just makes me more suspicious of these alleged "quotes" by Ehrenburg. I will be willing to consider them authentic only if some proof is presented (such as one of these fliers allegedly written by him). -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:36:05 PDT 1996 Article: 159059 of control Control: cancel Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.syria,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.palestine Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: cancel Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 22:40:30 GMT Lines: 1 was cancelled from within trn. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:36:07 PDT 1996 Article: 159068 of control Control: cancel Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.lebanon Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.dacom.co.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: cancel Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 23:51:24 GMT Lines: 1 was cancelled from within trn. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:51:45 PDT 1996 Article: 69999 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Liberty's attack on Israel was cold-blooded murder. Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.revisionism Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52k3th$pp5@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <91d7cc$a112d.212@news.comet.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:47:10 GMT Lines: 12 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:103134 alt.revisionism:69999 soc.culture.europe:48380 soc.culture.german:87324 georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes: # OK, what do you think is the explanation for the attack on # the USS Liberty? The same explanation as the one for the cases of "friendly fire" in the Gulf War. The ship was misidentified as an Egyptian ship. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:51:46 PDT 1996 Article: 70003 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000 Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3247f689.3588250@news.pacificnet.net> <843917095snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <843982322snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 15:42:36 GMT Lines: 49 A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes: # That's why there were so many fucking doctors in Auschwitz, # several of them have written accounts of the camp. Indeed. And you know what? Some of them even wrote diaries. Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 256-268] ---------------------------------------------------------------- 2 September 1942 3.00 a.m. attended my first Sonderaktion. Dante's Inferno seems to me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the extermination camp for nothing! 5 September 1942 In the morning attended a Sonderaktion from the women's concentration camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Hschf. Thilo -- army doctor -- was right when he said to me this is the 'anus mundi'. In the evening towards 8.00 attended another Sonderaktion from Holland. ['Muslims' does not mean "practicing Islam"; this is the way the SS referred to emaciated people]. 12 October 1942 Second inoculation against typhus, later on in the evening severe generalized reaction (fever). Despite this in the night attended a further Sonderaktion from Holland (1,600 persons). Ghastly scenes in front of the last bunker! That was the 10th Sonderaktion. 13 November 1942 Extracted fresh live material (liver, spleen and pancreas) from a previously photographed, severely atrophied Jewish prisoner aged eighteen. Fixed as always, liver and spleen in Carnoy and pancreas in Zenker (Prisoner No. 68,030). -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:51:47 PDT 1996 Article: 70015 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Euthanasia Murders, II Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:38:53 GMT Lines: 18 Excerpt from the statement of Heinrich Ruoff, who was employed in one of the Nazi "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) centers [Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 75] ----------------------------------------------------------------- My name is Heinrich Ruoff and I reside in the asylum at Hadamar. I began working in the asylum at Hadamar as chief male nurse in 1926. In about the year 1933 Bernotat became supervisor of the Institution. About 1935 Alfons Klein came there and became later on administration chief under Bernotat. In 1940 the program of killing started. Those people who were brought here were German mentally sick. These people were gassed to death and then burned. Bernotat instructed the people who worked there that they were not allowed to say anything about what they heard, saw, and did. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:51:48 PDT 1996 Article: 70016 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Euthanasia Murders, III Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:39:28 GMT Lines: 78 Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany [Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 876-886]. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what methods were the mercy deaths given? A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files, etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO). Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process? A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel container. Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the chambers? A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's basic requirement was that the killing should not only be painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the photographing of the patients, which was only done for scientific reasons, took place before they entered the chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby. Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps 20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge. . . . Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths were given? A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they were dead. Q. Then what happened to the bodies? A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for cremation and they were cremated. Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct? A. Yes. Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions? A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions. . . . Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower bath? A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt thought that. Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their clothes on or were they nude? A. No. They were nude. Q. In every case? A. Whenever I saw them, yes. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:51:48 PDT 1996 Article: 70018 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!news.nacamar.de!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists? Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <843935755snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <52m8ni$cnn@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:33:06 GMT Lines: 34 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # You missed it because it did not happen. Oh? From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996 Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism [Giwer writes to me] # Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you # first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the # US above all others. From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996 Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism [Giwer writes to me] # May napalm burn you skin. May cannon fire tear your # apart. May you know death from drowning. These surely classify as a threat to kill me, and a statement that I deserve to die. Even an unemployed, mentally retarded leech like Giwer must realize this. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 11:51:49 PDT 1996 Article: 70019 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Euthanasia Murders, I Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:38:17 GMT Lines: 33 Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar [Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87] ----------------------------------------------------------------- Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October, 1940, in August, 1940? A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin to the Gemeinde Stiftung. [...] Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation? A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge of it. Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar? A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941. Q. What was done during that period? A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers and killed there. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 14:14:20 PDT 1996 Article: 70039 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.mci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <52kkl9$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52m7be$cnn@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:51:38 GMT Lines: 16 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # And as you know, the writing does not describe what is # happening in the picture. What does it say? How many times do I have to ask you? # Why do jews like you spend so much time trying to spread lies? Why can't you answer a simple question? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 29 14:14:20 PDT 1996 Article: 70041 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Giwer the Coward (Re: Israel provokes the end of peace) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52f6q1$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52kmrp$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52m9dg$cnn@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 17:27:16 GMT Lines: 13 I wrote to Matt "163 IQ and can't find a job" Giwer: # But let's sharpen the question here, you unemployed traitorous # leech. Zundel claims to have met German scientists who built # the "secret UFO's". Now, either you believe that, or you agree # he's lying. Which will it be? Answer the question, traitorous # coward. He has yet to answer the question. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 07:33:32 PDT 1996 Article: 70180 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Priests Murdered in Dachau Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52hjuj$l1u@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 15:55:16 GMT Lines: 24 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:70180 alt.conspiracy:93802 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: # Keren now says that no jews were sent to Dachau. I said no such thing of course; the senile liar is at it again. It's no wonder this poor bastard can't find a job. He claims an IQ of 163, and he's been unemployed since he was 46-years-old (as he proudly declared himself, quite a few times). He-he. Funny guy. -Danny Keren. --- In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 14:22:58 PDT 1996 Article: 70317 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Why I don't believe the Holocuast Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com> <52gld0$d0v@netnews.upenn.edu> <52mqkc$vfc@sol.caps.maine.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:10:21 GMT Lines: 12 Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:70317 alt.christnet:110176 soc.culture.german:87438 scotterb@maine.maine.edu (Scott Erb) writes: # Yes, I think it's obivous Beth doesn't know what she's writing # about -- or else she's purposefully making lies. There's no "Beth". The address doesn't exist. It's a forgery by the same Nazi who is flooding the newsgroup with such forgeries, "Boby Huber". -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 15:47:11 PDT 1996 Article: 70349 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52duil$lcm@news.enter.net> <52naaa$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com> <324f5c91.37102936@news.srv.ualberta.ca> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:30:33 GMT Lines: 20 jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes: [To "rblackmore@juno.com", aka "jbelling"] # I hate to be the one stating the obvious, but the British # brought the water up from the river, and a river is usually # a flowing body of water. Remove the immediate source of the # pollution, and the water will go back to whatever it level # of pollution was before the pollutant was introduced. The nazi-boy, and Giwer, are trying to pull a trick here. The corpses were in the water tanks in the camp, not in the river. The river water was fit to drink. Kramer simply didn't care enough to supply any water to the inmates. The Brits, using only equipment found in the camp, immediately set up a system to provide the water to the camp. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 19:13:02 PDT 1996 Article: 70409 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <324BF4A6.41C6@itsa.ucsf.edu> <52ndn6$nqt@juliana.sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:17:32 GMT Lines: 37 rblackmore@juno.com writes: # I simply stated that it appears to me that he was a victim of # circumstances according to the documentation I have reviewed. Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709): --------------------------------------------------------------------- The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant, Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply. I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why should you care?". Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717): ------------------------------------------------------------ Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses should be removed, and that water should be supplied to prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did not take orders from me. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 20:37:33 PDT 1996 Article: 70435 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!spring.edu.tw!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <52m7be$cnn@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52pb74$n30@bell.maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:57:31 GMT Lines: 18 dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) writes: # mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes: ## And as you know, the writing does not describe what ## is happening in the picture. # What _does_ the writing on the blackboard say, then? Since unterschardummkopf Giwer obviously can't answer, I will. The writing on the blackboard says: "The Jew is our worst enemy. Beware of the Jew!". This is what young German children were subjected to in the classroom. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 21:40:14 PDT 1996 Article: 70440 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: The Plunder of the Victims, III Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:20:23 GMT Lines: 21 Letter from SS-Gruppenfuehrer Katzmann to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Kruger, regarding the "solution of the Jewish problem in Galicia", and giving a breakdown of property taken from the Jews, June 30, 1943 [Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot, NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 335-341] ------------------------------------------------------------------- Valuables were secured and handed over to the special staff "Reinhard". Apart from furniture and large quantities of textile, etc., the following were confiscated and delivered to special staff "Reinhard": As of June 30, 1943: . . 20.952 Kg - wedding rings - gold 22.740 Kg - pearls 11.730 Kg - gold teeth . . From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 23:08:46 PDT 1996 Article: 70454 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.icix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000 Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52nef5$1k2m@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <844089702snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:11:55 GMT Lines: 30 A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes: # There were also SS doctors; one such doctor gave evidence at # the Belsen Trial, and he was still working there at the time # of the trial. Must be Dr. Klein: Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein [Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and Company, 1949.p. 717] ---------------------------------------------------------------- When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz. . . . I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army. -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 23:08:47 PDT 1996 Article: 70455 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.icix.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: The Plunder of the Victims, I Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:18:03 GMT Lines: 23 Letter from SS-Brigadefuehrer Frank to chief of administration of Auschwitz, concerning the utilization and distribution of "evacuated" Jews, 26 September 1942 [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 256-258] --------------------------------------------------------------------- e) Women's clothing and women underwear including footwear, children's clothing and children's underwear including footwear have to be handed over to the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle against payment... f) Featherbeads, quilts, woolen blankets, cloth for suits, shawls, umbrellas, walking sticks, thermos flasks, earflaps, baby carriages, combs, handbags, leather belts, shopping baskets, tobacco pipes, sun glasses, mirrors, table knives, forks and spoons, knapsacks, and suitcases made from leather or artificial material are to be delivered to the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle. The question of payment will be decided later... h) Spectacles and eyeglasses of every kind are to be handed in to the medical office for utilization. (Spectacles with golden frames have to be handed in without glasses together with the rare metals). From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 23:08:48 PDT 1996 Article: 70459 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Giwer the Coward (Re: Israel provokes the end of peace) Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52f6q1$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52m9dg$cnn@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52ooct$lvm@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 22:20:53 GMT Lines: 29 I've asked Matt Giwer if he believes Ernst Zundel's claim, that he met German scientists who built the "secret UFO's", which flew into the inner earth. See http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers for some image and text files of Zundel's "research" into these "secret Nazi UFO's". Very funny stuff, and yet another proof that "Holocaust revisionists" are the craziest people on earth (inner and outer!). Zundel, do not forget, is the world's most well-known "Holocaust revisionist". Giwer still has not answered my question. There are only two possibilities: 1) Giwer believes Zundel's claim that he met German scientists who built the "secret UFO's", which flew into the inner earth via a "hole in the South-Pole". 2) Giwer doesn't believe it. In that case, he's advertising the web site of a man he knows is a crazed liar. Which one is it, Matty? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 30 23:30:28 PDT 1996 Article: 70463 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA References: <52na0j$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:56:42 GMT Lines: 16 rblackmore@juno.com writes: # Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was # polluted. Not a good enough excuse. Think of something better. # Mr. Giwer also makes a good point when he adds that the # British had to have provided some special filtering # apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable. And where is this "special filtering apparatus" mentioned? -Danny Keren. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Oct 1 01:38:57 PDT 1996 Article: 70510 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: The Plunder of the Victims, V Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:22:04 GMT Lines: 79 Report by SS-Grupenfuehrer Globocnik listing items plundered >from the Jewish victims of "Operation Reinhard" and delivered to various Nazi organizations. Attached is a detailed list, prepared by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Wippern on February 27, 1943. [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. V, p. 704-709] ----------------------------------------------------------------- Valuation of Jewish belongings delivered up to 3 February 1943 1. cash - RM 15,931,722.01 Delivery SS Econ. Krakow - RM 31,500,000.00 SS WVHA Berlin - RM 5,581,411.50 ---------------- RM 53,013,133.51 [At that time, 2.5 RM were equal to 1 US Dollar]. 2. Foreign currency, notes [Long list] total RM 1,452,904.65 . . . 5. Other Valuables . . 2,894 gold gentlemen's pocket watches . . 7,313 gold ladies' wrist watches . . 13,455 gentlemen's pocket watches . . 22,324 spectacles . . 7,000 fountain pens . . 51,370 watches to be repaired . . 230 clinical thermometers [many items deleted] Total RM 26,089,800.00 6. Textiles 462 boxcars rags 253 boxcars feathers for bedding 317 boxcars clothes and linen Total RM 13,294,400.00 Summary 1. Delivered cash and cash on hand RM 53,013,133.51 2. Foreign currency, notes RM 1,452,904.65 3. Foreign currency, minted gold RM 843,802.75 4. Precious metals RM 5,353,943.00 5. Other items RM 26,089,800.00 6. Textiles RM 13,294,400.00 Total RM 100,047,983.91 [In April 8, 1945, an immense amount of SS loot was discovered hidden in a salt mine in Merkers, Germany. Among other items, it contained 369.6. lbs of rings and 385 lbs of gold and silver teeth feeling. This is reported in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 376]. From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Oct 1 01:54:49 PDT 1996 Article: 70516 of alt.revisionism Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) Subject: The Plunder of the Victims, II Message-ID: Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 23:19:16 GMT Lines: 16 Letter from prison warden Guenther to the general commissar of white Ruthenia, Minsk, 31 May 1943 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol. VIII, p. 208] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Since that time all German and Russian Jews who were turned to us, had their golden bridgework, crowns and fillings pulled or broken out. This happens 1 to 2 hours before the respective action. Since April 13 1943, 516 German and Russian Jews have been finished off. On the basis of a definitive investigation, gold was taken only in two actions, on 14 April 1943 from 172, and on 27 April 1943 from 164 Jews. About 50% of the Jews had gold teeth, bridgework or fillings. Hauptscharfuehrer Ruebe of the security police was always personally present and he took the gold along too.

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