From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 06:10:24 PDT 1996
Article: 54747 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wetzel Writes Lohse About The 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tma1a$vpa@Vir.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:07:24 GMT
Lines: 33

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

[About the "gassing apparatuses" letter from Dr. Wetzel
 to Lohse]

# Wetzel wasn't accused at any of the Nuremberg trials and the
# timid attempts to judge him didn't get any results: the trials
# never materialized. 

He was tried by the Germans. Gerald Fleming writes about
it in "Hitler and the Final Solution". He never denied,
of course, writing the letter. 

# Strange no? 

Duh.

# Do you have any evidence that this letter was ever sent?

Let me guess - you're going to say he wrote it because
of his "morbid sense of humor"? This is what "leading
revisionist scholar", Matt Giwer, wrote about the
mention of "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the
Birkenau crematoriums.

# Too bad that you hadn't a document for which the guy
# wasn't capture.

Too bad for you that you can only make very stupid arguments.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 06:10:25 PDT 1996
Article: 54748 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager Writes a Report
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tms35$l08@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:16:17 GMT
Lines: 20

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# 2)  This implies a process that is gathering momentum as it
# goes along. It also implies a process of brutalization for
# the shooters.

Certainly. One morbidly fascinating phenomena is that, during
the initial Einsatzgruppen massacres, you see here and there
attempts to give some "rational" reason for them. For instance,
some state that Jews were shot because they were a health risk.

# Documents of this sort are sufficient proof of the Jewish
# genocide.  But documents like this do not reference gas chambers.    

No; but others do.


-Danny keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 06:10:26 PDT 1996
Article: 54755 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4to6pt$4n9@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:17:29 GMT
Lines: 35

The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
SS-Women.jpg: SS-women from Belsen camp.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 06:10:26 PDT 1996
Article: 54800 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Tom Moran's Forgery
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 22:24:43 GMT
Lines: 130

This is the forgery posted to alt.revisionism by 
"revisionist" Tom Moran. Note that Moran quotes the 
original testimony, while also inserting questions that 
were not asked and answers which were not given - in 
exactly the same format as in the original article.


>From  tm@pacificnet.net Tue Mar  5 16:06:27 EST 1996
Article: 73393 of alt.revisionism
Xref: world alt.revisionism:73393
Path: world!uunet!in2.uu.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Engineers, I
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 16:33:37 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <3139c63e.6801197@news.pacificnet.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-0.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141
Status: R

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt,
>Germany, March 5, 1946
>[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?
> 
>A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were
>   done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" 
>   [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.
> 
>Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?
> 
>A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders
>   of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in
>   spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn
>   1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The
>   forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the
>   fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the
>   intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the
>   front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because 
>   there were not enough workers.

 Q. When you say "a krema" which one exactly?  

 A. Well I don't know which one exactly? It could have been II, III,
IV or V.

 Q. When you say there weren't enough workers, are you saying you
couldn't have gotten 100 or even 200 men, women and children out of
the hundred thousand to dismantle the building.

 A. Well, ah, we ah ... 

 Q. When you say "relocated" do you mean take the brick buildings
apart piece by piece and rebuild them else where?

 A. Yes.

 Q. And where was the alternate site to be located?

 A. Well, since the front was getting closer, we were figuring on
moving it further west, maybe even moving the whole operation to a
ship in the North Sea.

>Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?
> 
>A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time.
>   I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages,
>   which were being prepared for incineration.  That was at 10 in the 
>   morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the
>   conclusion that the furnaces were working well.
> 
>Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?
> 
>A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and
>   the crematorium there was a connecting structure.

 Q. By "connecting structure" do you mean they were not all one in the
same?

 A. Well, yes.

 Q. And which Krema was this?

 A. Well I'm not sure. It could have been II,III, IV or V.
> 
>Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took
>   place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
> 
>A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being
>   liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were 
>   subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.
> 
>Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
> 
>A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers;
>   and he installed them.
> 
>Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?
> 
>A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the
>   furnaces was colossal.

 Q. So I take it you came up with a good solution to this failure
since you had no more problems. Was this problem only at teh one
particular Krema, due to some mistake at teat Krema alone, or did you
have trouble with the rest?

 A. No. It was just this one. Evidentally the mortar wasn't mixed
right.
>
>
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.
>
>-Lu Xun.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 06:27:29 PDT 1996
Article: 54806 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Himmler Tries to Keep the 'German Blood' Clean
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:53:58 GMT
Lines: 26


Extract from Himmler's address to party comrades, September 7 1940
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., Vol. IV, p. 1140]
------------------------------------------------------------------
If any Pole has any sexual dealing with a German woman, and by this
I mean sexual intercourse, then the man will be hanged right in
front of his camp. Then the others will not do it. Besides,
provisions will be made that a sufficient number of Polish women
and girls will come along as well so that a necessity of this
kind is out of the question.

The women will be brought before the courts without mercy, and
where the facts are not sufficiently proved - such borderline
cases always happen - they will be sent to a concentration camp.
This we must do, unless these one million Poles and those
hundreds of thousands of workers of alien blood are to inflict
untold damage on the German blood. Philosophizing is of no avail
in this case. It would be better if we did not have them at all -
we all know that - but we need them.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 06:27:31 PDT 1996
Article: 54808 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fe1d43.382058@news.pacificnet.net>  <31ff7139.6646144@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:22:12 GMT
Lines: 26

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Why don't you just tell us about any flue system, Mr.Keren, 
# Professor Keren, former Professor Keren and/or former 
# impersonating Professor Keren?

Are you suggesting I am an "impersonating Professor"?

You're making a serious accusation here, which may well
be criminal libel. Think about it.

I know you have a big inferiority complex, which makes
you throw these childish, infantile insults at me. But
do try to control yourself, you senile twit.

# "What floor?"

Yes, what floor, you poor, mentally retarded clown. What
floor. What floor do you claim the flues ran underneath?

Can you answer a simple question? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 16:43:23 PDT 1996
Article: 54844 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:45:08 GMT
Lines: 17

Letter from SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe to Reich security office
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. I, p. 1001]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives
weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the
Security Service of White Ruthenia. The three S-vans which are there
are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another
S-van (five tons). At the same time I request the shipment of twenty
gas hoses for the three S-vans on hand since the ones on hand are leaky
already.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 16:43:24 PDT 1996
Article: 54857 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Theodor Malzmueller Testifies About Chelmno
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:41:40 GMT
Lines: 40

SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant,
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in
his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert
Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof
[Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the
plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated.  We were to
keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have
to reckon with our families' imprisonment and the death penalty...

The extermination camp was made up of the so-called "castle" and the
camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the
edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had
been transported by lorry or railway were first brought...

When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando
addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer 
Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from
Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They
explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and
deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then
went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this
they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard
where the so-called "gas-van" was parked. The back door of the van
would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was
done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles
hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast
enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver
then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a
pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now
poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were
suffocated...




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  1 16:43:25 PDT 1996
Article: 54903 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Bathing Installations For Special Actions'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:41:01 GMT
Lines: 30

Can someone please translate the following (see also 

http://www.nizkor.org/

Files

ftp.cgi?people/p/prufer.kurt/images/Prufer1.jpg
ftp.cgi?people/p/prufer.kurt/images/Prufer2.jpg

full translation of these will be greatly appreciated).

 "Bezuglich Aufstellung von je 2 Dreimuffelofen bei den
  'Badeanstalten fur Sonderaktionen' wurde von Ing. Prufer".

This is one document which, I'm sure, our "revisionist
scholars" will really stretch their imagination to
explain. Expect some true flashes of "revisionist"
brilliancy, which will put Giwer's previous record [*]
to shame.

[*] In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, 
Matt Giwer suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and 
"gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, 
as they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the 
SS men who authored the documents.



-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:19 PDT 1996
Article: 54918 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Subject: Solution of the Jewish question'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:52:39 GMT
Lines: 30

Possibly, the first document which explicitly mentions an
extermination plan:

Letter from Hoppner, higher SS and Police leader in the Warthegau,
to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, July 16 1941
[Documents of Destruction - R. Hilberg, Quadrangle Books, Chicago,
1971, p. 87]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Enclosed is a memorandum on the results of various discussions held
locally in the office of the Reich Governor...

Subject: Solution of the Jewish question
 .
 .

4) This winter there is a danger that not all of the Jews can be fed
   anymore. One might weigh honestly, if the most humane solution
   might not be to finish off those of the Jews who are not employable
   by means of some quick-working device. At any rate, that would be
   more pleasant than to let them starve to death.
5) For the rest, the proposal was made that in this camp all the Jewish
   women, from whom one could still expect children, should be
   sterilized so that the Jewish problem may actually be solved
   completely with this generation.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:20 PDT 1996
Article: 54942 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: conflicting numbers
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tlbh4$brl@news.icanect.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:50:19 GMT
Lines: 19

Right, these numbers conflict.

The first two are certainly overestimates.

But, we have estimates for the number of Dresden
victims starting at 25,000 and going up to 500,000.

We have estimates of the number of victims of
Stalin's persecutions ranging from 0.5 million
to 50 million.

So, what in earth are we going to do? 

Do tell us, "revisionist scholars", what to do
when confronted with conflicting numbers.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:20 PDT 1996
Article: 54961 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Tom Moran's Forgery
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <32002e88.3393156@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:30:51 GMT
Lines: 27


Liar and forger Tom Moran, tm@pacificnet.net, writes:

# Of course if it was an attempt at a "forgery" Moran
# would have taken out the markers for the original text 
# to make it look like it was all one thing. 

That would probably be a criminal deed - because it would
have made it seem as I posted something which I didn't;
guess Moran wasn't ready to go that far.

The fact is that Moran added forged Q&A's to the original
ones, in exactly the same format, *without* specifying
that these are his additions.

# Poor Mr.Keren, he's so desperate.

The poor one is Tom Moran, who is a cheap liar and forger.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:21 PDT 1996
Article: 54970 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3200df2d.7152553@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:16:29 GMT
Lines: 45

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

[Yet again repeating the old nonsense about Zyklon-B]

Shrug. Either this person is mentally retarded, or he's
trolling. I can only respond as I did in the past. It's
an FAQ now, I guess.

But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what
you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what
you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your
claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical
material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves
you're lying.

What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
over again?

A few days ago, you wrote about the outgassing time of HCN from
Zyklon:

# Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the
above. A range given from "six hours" to "months". 

Moreover, if there was some HCN residue in the Zyklon when the
victims died, it was rather easy to handle: the sonderkommando
used gas masks in some of the gas chambers, while in others a
very simple mechanism was used, which allowed to extract the
Zyklon from the chambers after the victims died, thus solving
the alleged "problem" of dealing with the HCN the Zyklon may
have continued to release.

Can you *really* not understand all this? After so many times?


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:22 PDT 1996
Article: 55003 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fcce16.2494748@news.pacificnet.net> <4tm6fi$h4p@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:32:29 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# And of course, those "well designed" gas chambers were
# missing a great source of heat free heat (for the cost
# of a thermostat, a little ductwork and a fan) to keep 
# them warm all year round and make it better for HCN. 

And, of course, the paper by Dr. Peters and Rasch clearly
states that the HCN evaporates from the Zyklon rather
quickly even at very low temperatures - minus 10 Celsius
and even lower.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

peters-rasch-132.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-133.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-134.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-135.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-136.jpg (ref)
peters-rasch-137.jpg (ref)

But remember, it was Matt Giwer who claimed none would
evaporate at 20 Celsius. One of the more incredible
statements from the great engineer.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:22 PDT 1996
Article: 55010 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!news.dfci.harvard.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!canopus.hbs.edu!news-in.tiac.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Himmler's War
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 07:56:35 GMT
Lines: 24


Letter from Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to the Higher SS and Police 
Chief in the Ukraine, Kiev, September 7 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Supp. A, p. 1270]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Pruetzmann,

Infantry general staff has special orders with regard to the Donetz
area. Get in touch with him immediately. I order you to cooperate as
much as you can. The aim to be achieved is that when areas in the 
Ukraine are evacuated, not a human being, not a single head of cattle, 
not a hundredweight of cereals and not a railway line remain behind; 
that not a house remain standing, not a mine is available which is 
not destroyed for years to come, that there is not a well which is 
not poisoned. The enemy must really find completely burned and destroyed
land. Discuss these things with Stampf straight away and do your
absolute best.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:23 PDT 1996
Article: 55027 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: '... When 100 Corpses Are Lying Side By Side, Or 500, Or 1,000'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:47:38 GMT
Lines: 35

Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, 
October 4 and 6, 1943
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
p. 469]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
that is what has made us hard.  This is a page of glory in our history
which has never been written and is never to be written.

I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:24 PDT 1996
Article: 55028 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Walter Burmeister Testifies About Chelmno
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:42:12 GMT
Lines: 35

Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were
told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
to be registered...

When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas
vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
van...

The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing...

I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
carried out the orders I had been given.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:25 PDT 1996
Article: 55034 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hitler Outlines His Plans For Jews Living In Arab Countries
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:49:13 GMT
Lines: 30

Excerpts from the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti,
Haj Amin Husseini, on 28 November 1941. The notes were taken by
Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt and are quoted in Fleming's "Hitler and the
Final Solution", p. 101-104. Also geheime Reichssache 57 a/41, Records 
Dept. Foreign and  Commonwealth Office Pa/2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fuehrer then made the following declaration, requesting
the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:

1) He (the Fuehrer) would carry on the fight until the last
   traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been
   obliterated.

2) In the course of this fight, the German army would - at a
   time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in
   the clearly foreseeable future - gain the southern exit of
   Caucasus.

3) As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuehrer would
   offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour
   of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany's only
   remaining objective in the region would be limited to the
   annihilation of the Jews living under British protection
   in Arab lands.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug  3 07:03:26 PDT 1996
Article: 55042 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Where's Baron? (Re: Absent without leave)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <838757760snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 05:21:37 GMT
Lines: 19

In alt.revisionism #109003, Alexander Baron 
 asks Yale F. Edeiken:

# By the way, you think a man who solicits a
# prostitute is a criminal?

And later, in alt.revisionism #109019 he writes

# I'll be away for a few days and I won't have the
# time to read 2,000+ messages when I get back. 

Hmm... just *where* is Alex going for a few days!? 

 :-)


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug  4 21:50:55 PDT 1996
Article: 55369 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t4nkl$f45@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31F66475.6B68@gryn.org> <4t6t68$74h@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:19:07 GMT
Lines: 39

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Another former inmate [of Belsen], Moshe Peer, recalled
# a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the
# camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the 
# French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the [Belsen] 
# camp gas chamber at least six times."

The testimony is, indeed, incorrect. However:

1) He was 11-years-old when the war ended. The testimony of a
   child of that age has much less value than that of an adult.

2) If the fact that such incorrect testimony exists proves that
   the Holocaust is a "hoax", we will also have to conclude that
   the bombing of Dresden is a hoax, as we have totally ridiculous
   "evidence" about it, such as "puddles of melted human flesh,
   4 foot deep", and of people turning into "an undulating layer
   of fine gray ash" (although the fire didn't even touch them),
   etc. 

But you know all this. We've been through it before. This is
an FAQ now; easier, don't have to rewrite every time. There
are, after all, advantages to confronting small minds like
yours; one being their predictability.

# And then there is Wiesel and his father who chose to be 
# evacuated from Auschwitz rather than liberated by the Russians.  

Only, so Wiesel writes, because the inmates were afraid
that the SS was going to blow the camp up after they left, and
kill all those who chose to remain.

We've been through this also. But you must have forgot. You're
senile. Nothing new here.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug  5 07:25:17 PDT 1996
Article: 85803 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:22:23 GMT
Lines: 5

 was cancelled from within trn.
-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug  5 15:23:15 PDT 1996
Article: 1369 of alt.bible.prophecy
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!apollo.isisnet.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!solace!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!qns3.qns.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Revisionist' Nonsense (Re: Anti-Fascist Organisation De
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4snbm6$aj1@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:56:07 GMT
Lines: 22
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:51888 alt.christnet:82422 alt.christnet.bible:44291 alt.bible.prophecy:1369 alt.religion.christian:101885 talk.religion.misc:136748

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

Two slight corrections/additions:

1) It is hardly accurate to claim that the gas chamber
   in Krema I (Auschwitz, main camp) was "built after the
   war". There are still cyanide compounds on its walls, as
   even the nutty "Holocaust revisionists" admit.

2) Re Dachau: photos of a letter from Rascher to Himmler,
   in which he states that gassing installations are being
   built in Dachau and suggests to use them to test combat
   gases on humans, are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/r/rascher.sigmund/images

(note, especially, Rascher2.jpg (ref) ).


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug  5 15:23:16 PDT 1996
Article: 1918 of alt.bible.prophecy
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Luther and the Jews Part 1
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4t8q77$reb@metroux.metrobbs.com>  <31FA8259.1F50@mail.gte.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 00:58:28 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53834 alt.christnet:85047 alt.religion.christian:104799 alt.bible.prophecy:1918

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

bud  writes:

# Understand that I wanted to avoid beginning this, but since
# Mr. Keren and others are now obviously beginning to attempt
# to bring this issue into the Christian Newsgroup

I can't speak for the others, but I am always setting the
followup to alt.revisionism, and out of the Christian 
Newsgroup.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug  5 15:23:17 PDT 1996
Article: 1998 of alt.bible.prophecy
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mr. Keren also ignores this aspect
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4s9otl$1pt@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>  <31FA84DE.6949@mail.gte.net> <31fb7536.578470@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 18:55:51 GMT
Lines: 42
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:54009 alt.bible.prophecy:1998 alt.christnet:85344 alt.religion.christian:105051

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# I personally don't know what Leuchter's qualifications are, 

He has none. He holds a BA in the arts.

# but it is evident he did some test at Auschwitz. Keren 
# says here "Leuchter himself states very clearly ..." that 
# there were cyanide traces found at Auschwitz, seeming to 
# use Leuchter himself as a reliable source. 

Not Leuchter, but the lab that tested the samples he brought.
I accept that Leuchter has enough qualifications to chop
pieces off a wall. Moreover, there were other tests.

# Keren did not add that the traces Leuchter found were
# based on Prussian blue stains, 

This is a lie; he found traces in rooms which had no Prussian
blue stains.

# Thus we can assume that these HCNs from this source alone
# where emitted into the atmosphere, converted to other cyanide
# compounds and distributed to the ground by rain fall ("acid 
# rain") not to mention combinate possibilities for the 
# components of HCN that could form from natural processes.

This is ridiculous. There are no cyanide traces in buildings
in the camp in which cyanide gas was not used; this was
confirmed in tests.

Soon these people will claim that Hiroshima was never hit
by an A-bomb, and that all radiation damage is from cosmic
rays.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug  6 08:45:56 PDT 1996
Article: 55516 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!cass.ma02.bull.com!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t92ab$9o5@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4tcpie$s2r@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 20:41:28 GMT
Lines: 31


mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## And we have a specific reference, plus a photograph, 
## of the Erco carrier.
##
## It existed. Do us a favor, don't claim it didn't.
##
## Why do you think it was manufactured?
    
# Sorry, dummy.  

Do try to concentrate. I'm trying to help you here. I am
aware of your severe limitations, which is why I'm taking
this one step at a time.

The Zyklon with the Erco carrier existed in 1933; we have
the book and we even a photograph of it.

Once again:

Why do you think it was manufactured?

Try to answer the question. 


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug  7 13:26:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55565 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31ff7139.6646144@news.pacificnet.net>  <3200da3a.5885543@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 05:33:30 GMT
Lines: 31

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Now it seems I have given Mr.Keren a tangent to go on. Any way,
# Mr.Keren, isn't it true you touted yourself as a professor, and let
# yourself be addressed as a professor many times, and never offered a
# correction until one day you stated that you weren't really a
# professor, but some sort of engineer?

Since I cannot believe that even you are so stupid, I have to conclude
you are acting out of malice, and a desire to slander me, which may well
be libel in the legal sense.

I have made it clear that I was a research associate in the Division of
Engineering, Brown University, and that I currently teach in a 
different university. I also made it clear that being a researcher
in the division of engineering in a university is not equivalent
to being "some kind of engineer", and does not, of course, contradict 
the fact that I currently teach in a university.

I cannot believe that even a "Holocaust revisionist" cannot understand
something so simple. Even stupidity has its limits.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug  7 13:26:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55639 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.monad.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inc.net!trellis.wwnet.com!News1.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!mr.net!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3200df2d.7152553@news.pacificnet.net>  <32020807.370304@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:19:09 GMT
Lines: 27

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)

# Of course I didn't make any issue about it being too dangerous to
# handle. I made a point of it being a poor choice for the agent of mass
# extermination.

You gave no rational reason for this claim, nor any rational suggestion
for a better choice. Zyklon was cheap, available at great quantities,
and a small amount of it can kill thousands of people rather quickly.

Moreover, the SS had a lot of experience using it.

# Your a liar and a cheat. Your an evader, an omitter, dishonest, all 
# in the course of trouncing on anothers history. Your an anti-Teutonic.

And I can still make you look like an idiot. But then, everybody can do
that, I have to admit.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug  7 13:26:52 PDT 1996
Article: 55670 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tqsa5$7dd@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 06:11:25 GMT
Lines: 31

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Wrong.  The Zuendel trial was conducted according to completely different
# rules to the Soviet Special commissions, of which we have negligible
# evidence in the first place.

And it also took place 40 years after the Holocaust, during which most
of the witnesses died and the others became quite old.

But you know that. Right?

And, you cannot prove one single case of the Soviets "torturing"
an SS-men to extract any testimony from him. Right?

And we know that Hoess, in his memoirs, wrote things that obviously
enraged the Soviets and the Poles, and that, obviously, they didn't
tell him what to write.

And that most of the trials of the SS-men from the death camps were
held by the Germans, not by the Soviets, Poles, Americans.

You *do* know all of this, I hope?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug  7 13:26:53 PDT 1996
Article: 55755 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Extermination or Sterilization
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tuv3d$sc3@juliana.sprynet.com> <4u2kkc$256@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:19:38 GMT
Lines: 18

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# The main advocate of sterilization was Dr. Brack.  Could it   
# be that the Brack Method referred to _that_?

Brack suggested to sterilize 2-3 million Jews who were "fit
for work", while the rest will be killed immediately. The
letter says it very clearly; the original poster
"rblackmore@juno.com" must have missed it.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:46 PDT 1996
Article: 55837 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <3200da43.5894331@news.pacificnet.net>  <3208b9cc.3932904@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:46:27 GMT
Lines: 18

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# It does not follow that the length of the flue would
# create increasing draft proportionally. Even if it did, 
# Which it doesn't, we are talking about flues underground, 
# below the source point of the gases. 

So, have you finally decided that the flues were underground?

Last time it was "I think".


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:47 PDT 1996
Article: 55842 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!News1.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4thvv0$8ln@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>  <4tuv1p$df0@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:42:38 GMT
Lines: 57

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

There again is Matt Giwer, big Holocaust expert, who
claimed that Belsen camp was in Poland. He also claimed
that the mention of "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums means nothing, as it may
only indicate "morbid humor" on behalf of the SS-men who
wrote the documents.

Let's see what smart things Giwer has to say this time.

# You have to realize the Nazi mindset.  When they wanted to
# do something new, and as we know from the Auschwitz Museum 
# (below) Eichmann and Hoess had decided to use a gas but 
# they did not know which one.  So rather than researching 
# gasses used for executions, they played around with anything 
# that came along until they found something at work.

This is idiotic, of course, for two reasons:

1) The gas released from Zyklon-B (HCN) is the very same gas
   used before to execute people in US prisons.

2) It is a completely different matter, killing one person
   in a month or so, compared to killing thousands every
   day. This may well call for different means.

3) The SS had, in Birkenau, large amounts of Zyklon-B, which,
   they knew well, releases highly toxic gas. It's obvious
   that this would have been a natural gas to test, before
   looking for other types of gas.

# And then, as all the holohuggers insist, LK I was resigned to
# be a gas chamber but, according to the mindset, the designers 
# were permitted no access to any "foreign" technology nor were 
# they permitted to know even the slightest thing about the gas 
# that was going to be used.

What is Giwer's evidence that the "designers were not permitted 
to know even the slightest thing about the gas that was going to 
be used", only God knows. Maybe he heard it from the same little
birdie that told him Belsen camp was in Poland?

# It all helps explain why they lost the war.  They were just so 
# stupid. 

It all helps explain why you're losing the debate here. One reason:
you are so stupid.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:48 PDT 1996
Article: 55869 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Bahr testifies from a bar
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u1f3p$a58@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:42:06 GMT
Lines: 43

jbelling@sprynet.com writes:

[About Bahr's testimony regarding gassing of Soviet POW's 
 in Neuengamme]

# He only had orders to pour in the gas?  

Yes. What's so odd about that?

# At Neuengamme?  

Yes. What's so odd about that?

# And he returned in 2 hours and marched in and 
# dragged out the corpses?  

Yes. What's so odd about that?

# All on the orders of this doctor?  

Why not?

# And we all know there was no gas chamber at 
# Neuengamme...

How do we know that Dresden was bombed? Let's start
with that.

# Why did you bother posting this nonsense?

Prove that it's nonsense. You people are like five-year-olds.
You reject or accept something not based on any objective
criteria, but based on your prior opinion whether it happened
or not.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:48 PDT 1996
Article: 55870 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 00:58:38 GMT
Lines: 33

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

#          The Holocaust was.
#
# How do we know? Eye-witness testimony, 

And documents, population statistics, forensic examinations.

# special interpretation of documents. 

Such as this one?

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that 
about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40
percent can be used for forced labor.




-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:49 PDT 1996
Article: 55876 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u1duj$1n0@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4u2gvo$ss@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3204dfdc.490260@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:50:55 GMT
Lines: 22

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The Peters' report mentions 1 to 2 hours, by Mr.Keren/Nizkor
# relating, which was for prussic acid, no mention of Zyklon B, 
# which the related material Mr.Keren/Nizkor gave included the
# statement that grain size was unknown. Who knows? Maybe it 
# was liquid.

No, it explicitly says Zyklon was used. Look it up. It's
on the web.

BTW, the conjecture made by "ehrlich" is irrelevant; the
Paters-Rasch paper is from 1941.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:50 PDT 1996
Article: 55878 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:13:29 GMT
Lines: 36

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

Let's concentrate on this; it's the only possibly
relevant part.

# If an operator attempted to introduce a body into the retort
# when temperatures were still excessive, a "flash ignition" 
# could occur whereby the body would ignite before it was 
# fully introduced into the retort. In such a case, the operator 
# would be engulfed in flames from the burning body and would
# be unable to close the door to the retort. To put it simply, 
# he said, "you can basically walk away and watch your building
# burn down."

Is this the same guy who testified about the people in
Dresden who, although the fire didn't touch them, have
"glowed orange and melted into 4 foot deep puddles of
melted flesh" (or turned a "layer of gray ashes")?

Is there any evidence, any case, of this "flash ignition"
ever taking place?

More so as other "revisionists" are saying that corpses
cannot burn at all? And this one is saying that they
ignite like a bucket of gasoline?

You people are amazing.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55879 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Germar Rudolf Responds on Zyklon Outgassing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u5kqb$9qc@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:30:13 GMT
Lines: 52

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

[Quoting Germar Rudoplh]

# Mr. Roessler 

It's Dr. Roessler, actually.

# should weigh his words more carefully.  If I
# had lied in relation to the remarks of Dr. Peters in one
# of his publications, that would mean that I had knowingly
# stated a falsehood.

he quoted "the larger part" as "half". One must assume he
was intentionally lying.

# Here Mr. Roessler is completely correct: the data which I
# received from Detia Freyberg (Laudenbach/Bergstrasse) were
# not exactly ample.

Well that's good to hear.

# As to the application of an exponential curve for outgassing, 
# I can scarcely understand what the problem might be, since 
# there is no function with a more rapid declination.

This has to be one of the most idiotic things I read in my
life. There are many functions which decrease faster. That's
indeed one for the ZOG quote files.

# Finally I would like to ask whether Mr. Roessler has ever
# given any thought as to how the Zyklon B would be introduced
# into the alleged gas chambers of Crematorium II and III 
# given the absence of any of the oft-cited holes in the roof.

Now that's just great. Some "revisionists", like Andrew Allen,
keep telling us there are three holes in the roof. And now
another one tells us there are none.

Never mind the photos in pressac's book which clearly show
the holes.

These people are amazing.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:51 PDT 1996
Article: 55880 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Extermination or Sterilization
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u6rmj$t3l@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:51:47 GMT
Lines: 24

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Why was SS doctor Clauberg at Auschwitz in 1943 allegedly doing 
#research on sterilization methods to be used in regard to the 
# Jews if the SS had orders to exterminate them?  

Documents such as the oft-quoted excerpt from Goebbels'
diary, Jager's report, Brack's letter to Himmler etc,
very explicitly state that Jews "unfit for work" will
be killed immediately, while those "fit for work" will
be sterilized.

# So many stories.....so many lies.

try not to be so stupid. Try to actually *learn* something
before posting.


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:52 PDT 1996
Article: 55881 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wetzel writes unconfirmed nonsense
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u71mp$1ht@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:57:16 GMT
Lines: 30

rblackmore@juno.com writes:

# Wetzel Writes:  Did Wetzel testify at Nuremberg or any
# other court?  

Do you know?

# Where are the mass graves at Riga where these people were
# supposedly murdered?  

Where are the corpses of 2 million Germans who allegedly
died after the war?

# What happened to Kallmeyer?  Where is he today?  

This question you keep bringing up is odd. This is a 
letter written in 1941 we're talking about.

# Did he ever give testimony in a court of law?

You tell us. Do you know?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:52 PDT 1996
Article: 55885 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's way with women
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4t <4u7md4$3mqs@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:59:38 GMT
Lines: 16

Calling every female poster here "fat broad".

Joking about a photograph showing women being shot to death.

Posting it was "good to hear" that his wife died.

That's Giwer's way with women.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:53 PDT 1996
Article: 55886 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tqqo6$6m5@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:19:09 GMT
Lines: 19

ehrlich606@aol.com writes:

# ...That is not proof.  I have still not seen any proof that
# the fans would kick in after 5 minutes other than the fact
# that you and P are obviously committed to this notion.

I'm reading Philip Mueller's book; he does say exactly this,
as I recall. This is how the procedure makes sense: first,
the Zyklon is taken out, then, the ventilation switched on,
and, after a few minutes, the door opened.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:54 PDT 1996
Article: 55889 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3200df2d.7152553@news.pacificnet.net> <3201769c.45919277@news.pacificnet.net> <4ttbus$sju@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4u69sc$qto@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:26:06 GMT
Lines: 16

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

# You also have a brain, which is something little Tommy lacks.  He
# wonders why Dr. Keren would post a German source in German.

Frankly, it's in (Talmudic) Hebrew. I just wanted to see if little
Tommy can tell the difference  :-).


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 07:42:55 PDT 1996
Article: 55890 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: An SS Court States: Almost like Lt. Calley
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4tuvg9$sc3@juliana.sprynet.com> <4u2kkd$257@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:20:20 GMT
Lines: 42

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

[About the Taubner case]

# You will note that this massacre was rather similar to those 
# committed by Germans, particularly SS and their foreign 
# auxiliaries.  

The problem with this analogy is that the SS committed numerous
such massacres, as a matter of policy.

Moreover, I post the court's decision in the Taubner case
not because of the light sentence handed by the court; this
is not as important as the court's declaration. Since you
people are obviously trying to divert the discussion from
this, here we go again. Do make an effort to read it
this time.

Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against 
SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the 
Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should
have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of
Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should
be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take
part in the extermination of Jewry himself.




-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 10:04:37 PDT 1996
Article: 124995 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:26:20 GMT
Lines: 5

 was cancelled from within trn.
-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 10:31:05 PDT 1996
Article: 55894 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3208abcf.351080@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 02:42:57 GMT
Lines: 26

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)

# The Zyklon B/carbon monoxide connection. 

The conventional bombs/atomic bombs connection.

# Millions exterminated with carbon monoxide, a wide 
# spread and proven method, 

Many cities destroyed with conventional bombs, a wide 
spread and proven method, 

# and yet suddenly at Auschwitz, it's Zyklon B.

And yet suddenly at Hiroshima, it's an atomic bomb.

Quite a hoax, eh?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 11:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 55914 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <32075f74.2975452@news.pacificnet.net> <4ubh0q$afi@orion.cybercom.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 04:35:45 GMT
Lines: 23

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

# Fifty one years ago would have been the time to
# to amass the physical evidence for the alleged Holocaust.

The physical evidence is there.

What makes this whole thread really odd, BTW, is the fact
that you're willing to accept the authenticity of other
events for which there is no physical evidence whatsoever.

Why are you applying a double standard? Or are you
going to claim you don't remember what I'm talking
about, zeide?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 15:51:43 PDT 1996
Article: 125074 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 03:24:57 GMT
Lines: 5

 was cancelled from within trn.
-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 23:03:08 PDT 1996
Article: 55962 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <4ubh0q$afi@orion.cybercom.net>  <3209ef8c.2261427@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:09:34 GMT
Lines: 42

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## The physical evidence is there.

#        Where?

Large amounts of human remains, documents, some of
the gas chambers, and cyanide traces in those of
Auschwitz-Birkenau. 

## Why are you applying a double standard? Or are you
## going to claim you don't remember what I'm talking
## about, zeide?

# Instead of just claiming the above, which is your usual
# practice in responding, why don't you just post the 
# particulars?

In Xref: world alt.revisionism:88383, posted on May 11 
09:02:45 EDT 1996, you claimed that African slaves were
"thrown over board enmass from ships transporting them to 
the Americas".

Regardless if this happened or not, you obviously have
no physical proof whatsoever that it did.

Which means that you're willing to accept that event A
(for which there is no physical evidence) took place, while
you refuse to accept that event B (for which there is
physical evidence) took place.

This is a typical double standard applied by Nazis who
deny the Holocaust. There's really nothing new here.


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug  8 23:03:09 PDT 1996
Article: 55963 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31fe1de3.541560@news.pacificnet.net> <3208ac02.402490@news.pacificnet.net>  <3209f233.2940300@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:14:05 GMT
Lines: 35

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Mr.Keren says "...if one witness in one camp made one
# numerical/other error in his/her testimony, than the
# Holocaust is a hoax.

I was saying, of course, that this is what "revisionists"
claim.

# I would agree that if it was just one discrepancy in 
# Holocaust eyewitness testimony there wouldn't be much
# to go on. But when there is scores, even hundreds, we 
# have to start to 'look sideways'.

Show us the "hundreds". There are about 3-4 testimonies
which "revisionists" always bring up, which may have
inaccuracies in them. 

# It is not a case of just "one" as Mr.Keren puts it.
#
# He's the one with the "one" with his lengthy discourse 
# on Faurisson.

Faurisson is the one who's claiming that Gerstein's
testimony is the only evidence about Belzec and Treblinka.
This is a complete lie, and he must know that.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug  9 08:02:05 PDT 1996
Article: 56016 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3208abcf.351080@news.pacificnet.net>  <3209ea0c.853809@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:17:28 GMT
Lines: 50

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Whereas the atomic bomb was an improvement, as far as being
# able to destroy, and wasn't developed until a certain
# time, at which time they used it, Zyklon B was there 
# already. It is also evident, going by Holocaust facts, 
that 
# carbon monoxide was used with relative ease compared to 
what 
# the Germans had to go through with Zyklon B.

Hardly. Bottled CO was rather expensive and difficult to
ship around in large quantities. Engine exhaust caused
problems (we have the report about an explosion taking
place in Chelmno), engines would break down, and it is
not clear how it would apply for the huge gas chambers
of Birkenau.

Zyklon-B was available at large quantities; it was cheap; a
very small amount can kill thousands of people; and the SS
had a great deal of experience with using it.

#  And as Ehrich's post shows, with more direct approach than
# Mr.Keren and company's tactics of referring people to 
# some "images" written in German, 

Can you elaborate?

# the product Zyklon B would have been a poor choice
# since only 12.5%, at the most, of the product would have 
# been used with 87.5%, 

More than 12.5; but this is not really crucial.

# at the least, being un-necessary, wasted, left over to
# complicate the unloading of the chambers and disposing of 
# the left over 87.5%.

As noted here dozens of times, these "complications" were
trivial to solve, using a ventilation system (or natural
ventilation), and gas masks.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug  9 08:02:06 PDT 1996
Article: 56045 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u1duj$1n0@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <3204dfdc.490260@news.pacificnet.net>  <3209e894.477902@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:01:52 GMT
Lines: 22

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## No, it explicitly says Zyklon was used. Look it up. It's
## on the web.

# "Look it up. It's on the web" Mr.Keren says. Does he offer exact
# locations? No.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images

Files peters-rasch-135.jpg (bottom) and peters-rasch-136.jpg
(section 2. of that page).


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug  9 08:02:07 PDT 1996
Article: 56048 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <838484554snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4tg59k$qfk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <320a0c85.596821190@news.zilker.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:32:07 GMT
Lines: 39

 Summary: "revisionist" lies about death in the "work camps"
 ----------------------------------------------------------

Regarding all this "revisionist" rubbish about the starvation
in the camps allegedly caused by "collapse of the German 
infra-structure towards the end of the war", it is interesting
to look at a letter from Oswald Pohl to Himmler, 30 Sep. 1943,
about the mortality in some of the concentration camps (as
opposed to death camps); it's in the "Trials Of War Criminals"
(green) series, Vol. V, p. 379.

In July 1942, the death rate was 8.5 percent.
In August 1942, the death rate was 10.6 percent.
In September 1942, the death rate was 10.2 percent.

This is 10 percent dropping dead in ONE MONTH!!

The TOTAL death rate for American and British POW's was
about 3.5 percent!

And this is long, long before the end of the war.

These people didn't die because Kramer locked himself in
the bread store, or because the water pump broke down, or
because of any other "reason" our desperate Nazi apologists 
are trying to peddle. They died because the Nazis considered
them to be "sub-humans". The people who continue to make
lame excuses and lie about their death, are probably in
agreement with the Nazis; there is no other clear reason
to explain what they are doing.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug  9 08:02:07 PDT 1996
Article: 56049 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <3208b9cc.3932904@news.pacificnet.net>  <3209f422.3435613@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:34:53 GMT
Lines: 20

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Aren't you the one who was asking "What Floor?", "What
# flues?"?

You have still failed to answer my question.

Are you finally claiming that the flues ran "under the
floor"? If so, what floor? 

Why can't you answer?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug  9 08:02:08 PDT 1996
Article: 56053 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com>  <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:38:18 GMT
Lines: 17

So, Moran, are you in agreement with Legace that a corpse,
inserted into a hot cremation furnaces, may ignite like
a can of gasoline and burn the whole building down?

This is what he's saying (which is mighty fascinating,
since other "revisionists" say corpses can't burn at all).

Do you agree? YES OR NO?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug  9 08:02:09 PDT 1996
Article: 56054 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com>  <320a0185.6862549@news.pacificnet.net> <4udh1v$9l8@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 00:42:11 GMT
Lines: 25

libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
# tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:

## Ah yes the "images" for text, written in German, in 
## large point,

I tried to make it like the famous "Fuehrer typewriter"
for you folks.

## light gray letters, requiring scrolling sideways.

# I'm sorry it's so difficult to scroll sideways with your
# rigii, Tommy.  Perhaps if you tried using the arrow keys...

Good advice there, Mr. Anderson. Tommy probably tried pushing
the computer sideways...


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:56 PDT 1996
Article: 56168 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Shhh! Don't mention it
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320b3e8f.548700@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 03:18:53 GMT
Lines: 54

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# How many people would think that the main gas said to have
# been used for extermination, the gas that is at the center
# of the Auschwitz story, was, in Holocaust reality, pellets
# made for fumigation purposes.

And how many Nazi "revisionists" know that these pellets
release the very same gas that is used, up to this day,
to execute condemned inmates in US prisons?

Think about that, little Tommy. Think about that.

Someone needs to kill many people with poison gas. He
has large quantities of a substance which releases a very
lethal form of cyanide gas. It's cheap. He can obtain
large quantities of it. It also has an innocent use,
which helps keep the operation secret. He has great
experience with using it.

So he used it. This is not hard to understand.

# It's 'funny' that of all the talk about the Holocaust and
# Auschwitz, which appears in myriads in and on our medias, 
# rarely are any details discussed.

I have no idea what little Tommy means by "rarely". The
Zyklon is described in most, or all, texts I've read about
the Holocaust. 

Most people also have no idea about how an A-bomb works, 
yet they don't deny Hiroshima because of that.

# is it ever said exactly what the gas agent(s) were?

Yes.

# The reason we don't see any discussion on what was the gas, 

But we do. You're a liar.

Go to sleep, zeide. You're going down the tubes. God save
you if your fuehrers ever get to power. You'll be off to the
"T4 operation" before you can say "exterminationist".


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:57 PDT 1996
Article: 56185 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3209ea0c.853809@news.pacificnet.net>  <4uf3k7$36d@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:05:34 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# What an asshole.  

It is not nice that Giwer repeats here the language 
he took up at home.

# You have been the strongest supporter of CO at Treblinka 

It is hard to understand what this sentence means. I said
that CO was one of the reasons people died in the Treblinka
gas chambers. I also said that this method of gassing had
its problems, which is why Hoess decided, eventually, to
continue using Zyklon-B for the Birkenau gas chambers,
and not use engine exhaust.

# and suddenly when it is not the hottest thing since sex
# in another place you are all over it.  

See above.

# This is the usual holohugging crap.  Used Russian and German
# for that matter tank engines were as available at A-B as at
# Treblinka.  

And there was plenty of Zyklon-B available in Auschwitz as well.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:58 PDT 1996
Article: 56193 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Death in Mauthausen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:36:19 GMT
Lines: 112

Affidavit of SS member Alois Hoellriegl, a guard in Mauthausen
[Quoted in "Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression" - Washington, U.S Govt. 
Print.  Off., 1946, Vol. VIII, p. 630]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Executions were carried out almost daily at Mauthausen. In the 
years preceding 1942 they were carried out by firing squads and
the bodies were burned in the camp incinerator which operated
almost daily. SS-guards made up the firing squads and were detailed
for the work in a routine manner the same as for other work details.
Victims executed by a firing squad were always shot singly by six
men using rifles. The number of executions varied daily. Sometimes 
they included persons brought by the Gestapo who were executed
immediately.

In 1942 a gas chamber resembling a shower room was built next to
the incinerator. Gas executions were carried out in the gas chamber
approximately three times a week and the bodies were burned in the
adjoining incinerator. From my guard post I could hear the sound of
the victims pounding on the door when the gas was turned on.




Testimony of Albert Tiefenbacher, political prisoner in Mauthausen
[Quoted in "Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the
International Military Tribunal", Vol. XXXIII, p. 226]
--------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Did you hear Kaltenbrunner say anything to Ziereis?

A. No, I was never so close to him. The carriers of the dead had to
   disappear when visitors were there, only the two firemen were
   allowed to stay in the crematorium.

Q. Do you remember Wolfram?

A. He was a medic.

Q. What do you know about him?

A. Wolfram gave many of the deadly injections to people.

Q. Do you remember Eckermann?

A. I know a block-leader Ecker.

Q. Do you remember the gas chamber camouflaged as a bath house?

A. Yes, we always helped to carry the dead from the gas chamber.




Testimony of Johann Kanduth, political prisoner in Mauthausen
[Quoted in "Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the
International Military Tribunal", Vol. XXXIII]
------------------------------------------------------------------
p. 232:

Q. Describe your work.

A. At first my occupation consisted of removing the bodies, then
   I served the heating and had to learn to put in the corpses,
   then I had to stir up and take out the ashes. This was my occupation
   during 4.5 years.

 .
 .
 .

p. 233:

Q. What kinds of execution preceded your cremation?

A. They were shot in the back of the neck. There were also women.
   Some were killed in the gas chamber. Other were killed by
   springes of gasoline or Efamedem, which were given by a certain
   Klein Guenther.

 .
 .
 .

p. 242:

Q. Do you remember the executions of the English and American
   military personnel in the year 1945?

A. Yes.

Q. Tell us something about it.

A. The staff went downstairs, Ziereis, Bachmaier, Streitwieser,
   Niedermayer led them. I do not remember if Altfuldich was
   present too. Ohrenstein must know it. Schulz was always
   present. Proksch and Rommel led them up from the bunker.

Q. Were you employed at the moment of the execution?

A. No.

Q. Do you know who was employed?

A. Ohrenstein, the only survivor. I came later. Hauptscharfuehrer
   Roth fetched me when the execution was over. The 14 bodies of
   the Americans lay separately.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:58 PDT 1996
Article: 56194 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u72nf$46t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4ue4vc$ati@news.enter.net> <4uf0ea$kno@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 20:36:05 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[To yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)]

# When you ask for my daughter's number you are ready
# for the grave.

It's interesting to see how protective and caring (apparently,
at least), this person is towards his own family, while being
such a sadist wherever other people are considered.

Giwer's "joke" about the photograph of women being shot
to death is but one example. It is obvious from his writing
that he couldn't care less about the lives of others. It is
clearly obvious that his major (possibly, only) goal in
posting, is to inflict emotional pain on others. And in
the most vulgar way possible; he's not even trying to hide
his intentions.

I guess this is what characterizes an animal, as compared to
a human being: an animal cares only about its immediate
family, its offsprings in particular. It has no emotions nor
concerns about other animals, not even of its own kind.

Relax, Giwer. I'm not going to try and call your father,
or son, or daughter. I just feel sorry for them for having
someone like you for a son or a father.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:52:59 PDT 1996
Article: 56253 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>  <4tsci6$s7@hades.rz.uni-sb.de> 
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:30:20 GMT
Lines: 44
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82337 alt.revisionism:56253

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Ventilation
#
# Depending on concentration, outdoor temperature and weather
# conditions, ventilation will take at least 10 hours. Its 
# duration also depends on the type of building, number, 
# size, and situation of windows and other apertures.

This is a standard claim made by Nazi propagandists who
deny the Holocaust: they suggest that since the Degesch
manual says that it takes 10 hours to ventilate a room,
or building, from HCN gas, it is impossible that the
"sonderkommando" could enter the gas chambers 20-30
minutes after the gassing to take the corpses out.

To understand how dumb this argument is, look at execution
gas chambers in the US, which have used HCN gas since 1920.

Are our "revisionists" suggesting that the corpses of
those executed in these gas chambers remain strapped to
their seats for 10 hours after being executed?

To elaborate, the 10 hours period is irrelevant because:

1) In the large, underground gas chambers of Kremas II
   and III, mechanical ventilation was used to replace
   the air. This took a few minutes.

2) In other gas chambers, the sonderkommando used gas masks.

3) It is much easier to ventilate a big room, with no
   furniture, curtains etc, than to ventilate an ordinary
   building.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:53:00 PDT 1996
Article: 56269 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Trolls
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Keywords: giwer
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4tngc2$ilv@news1.panix <4udfqh$41d4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4ug94k$9bu@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 03:49:47 GMT
Lines: 36
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2448 alt.revisionism:56269 alt.conspiracy:76447 alt.politics.white-power:38802 soc.culture.jewish:67374 talk.politics.guns:297063 talk.politics.libertarian:110256 talk.abortion:180969 alt.christnet:90330 alt.usenet.kooks:28031 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:432

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) writes:

# Mr. Giwer is all mouth, no proof (perhaps all of his proof
# resides in bottles labled "Cherry Jack" - one cannot say). 
# That is not because Mr. Giwer is stupid (although a case 
# might be made),

And a rather strong case, old son.

Smart "revisionist scholars" don't claim that documents
about "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar" in the Auschwitz
crematoriums may mean nothing, as they are possibly due
to "a morbid sense of humor" on part of the SS-men who
authored the documents...

But this is what Giwer claimed (in Message-ID: 
<4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>).

He also claimed, BTW, that Belsen camp was in Poland.

(But then, who *has* seen a smart "revisionist scholar"?).

# the ZOG Telephone Transmitted Golem Bomb does not transmit
# h.pylori,

To carry on Marty Kelley's observation, there is no
doubt that Giwer has reached the "Golem Heights"!


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 09:53:01 PDT 1996
Article: 56274 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4u5keo$lqu@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4uer5l$ndi@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 17:58:24 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Listen, you senile piece of dreck. If you're accusing me
## of posting something, you better have the proof. 

# Is that another threat?  

This is not a threat, and I've never made any threats 
against anyone.

It's just a statement: you're a lying piece of trash who
accuses people of posting things they never posted.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 15:58:12 PDT 1996
Article: 56320 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3209ea0c.853809@news.pacificnet.net>  <320c8ca2.563475@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:51:58 GMT
Lines: 72

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Nizkor > Ftp > camps > "majdanek .004". A Soviet report
# states they found gas tanks that were said to hold CO.

True, and I believe this gas bottle is still in Maidanek.
Bottled CO was also used for some time in Belzec, but
it was obviously easier to use an engine than to transport
these large, heavy bottles, in great quantities, to the
death camps.

# The Zyklon B would be made after a number of steps and
# transportations. The manufacture of the materials for the
# carrier and shipping to Degesch, the manufacture of the 
# HCN and shipping, the making of the product (under 
# specialized conditions one would think), packaging in 
# the cans, crating, shipping. Not to mention all the other
# little expenses, man hours, clerical, worker, etc. 
# Printing that had to be put on the side of the cans. 
# Training teams, and a slue of other expense considerations.

This ignores the fact that it was already being manufactured
in great quantities, and that all of what you talk about
already existed. 

The point is moot. There were two main methods used to
gas people: engine exhaust and Zyklon. Both were cheap
and easy. Wirth chose method A, Hoess chose method B. Not
much more to it. 

Different people will choose different methods. Like generals
using a different strategy during a war. Or chess players
using a different strategy during a game. 

# Anyway, here you have just offered up the proposal that the
# Germans may have chosen Zyklon B over carbon monoxide because of
# expense considerations

With regard to bottled CO, yes.

# SS having to go around from one window to another with a step
# ladder, doing a "balancing act" while dumping in the Zyklon B, 
# cutting holes in roofs through iron reinforced concrete, 
# construction of special pillars and wire mesh introduction 
# cages. Picking up the remaining Zyklon B which would by then 
# still have about 50% of the HCN, getting rid of and/or 
# recycling the expended Zyklon B pellets to something else. 
# Gas masks. 

Sigh. All this effort together would amount to, say, tenth
of a percent of the effort needed to build one U-boat. If one's
going to kill such a huge number of people with poison gas,
he'll have to put some effort into this. 

Gas masks. Big problem. They had them and used them anyway
for delousing.

Climbing a few steps on a ladder. Wow. 

You're really trying to say that cutting a few holes through
the roof would have been a major undertaking for Germany...

You people are simply amazing.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 15:58:17 PDT 1996
Article: 56324 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.nap.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <320b3dbe.339381@news.pacificnet.net>  <320ca1c4.5972983@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:24:19 GMT
Lines: 29

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Anyone wanting to see Mr.Keren's racist denial analogy, 
# see his stuff, this thread.

This is, of course, a desperate lie by notorious
liar and forger, Tom Moran. We all remember his
forgery of Kurt Prufer's testimony; and now he
lies and slanders again.

I was pointing out that Moran uses a double standard:
he accepts the story of the African slaves thrown,
in large numbers, into the sea, while he has no
physical proof whatsoever for this.

Now, I'm not denying this story; I'm pointing out
that Moran (as well as other "revisionists"), applies
a double standard when evaluating the authenticity
of the Holocaust vs. other historical events. He
cannot deny this.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56338 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Moran Can't Answer a Simple Question (Re: Lagace's testimony)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net>  <320b4d42.4311173@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:26:38 GMT
Lines: 67

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Poor Mr.Keren, he has singled out something from the
# report which he thinks he can ridicule and evidently
# he thinks this should make the reader think that is
# all there is to denying the whole report.

Answer the question, you tiresome clown. Why can't
you answer it already?

Do you agree with Legace's claim that a corpse may ignite
like a can of gasoline when inserted into a hot cremation
furnace? YES OR NO? Has any such case been recorded?

# What it really shows is that Mr.Keren shys away from
# commenting on the main gist of the report, 

This *is* the main gist of the report; Legace uses this
argument to try and prove that cremation of many corpses
will take a lot of time, because, so he claims, there
would have to be a long cool-down period between cremations.

# What about it Mr.Keren, the report states it takes 1 1/2 to 2
# hours to cremate a body to the fullest, 

I just posted a section from the cremation society's FAQ. They
say less than an hour for some furnaces. They also say that
when the furnace is warm, it takes about half the time to
cremate a corpse.

The 1951 Topf patent gives 30-45 minutes.

# whereas the Holocaust story says they could cremate four
# bodies in 15 minutes, 

15 minutes is not true, probably, but this is not what most 
accounts give. The real question is, could they cremate 
the number of corpses comparable to reasonable estimates 
of the number of people who died in the camp? Obviously, they
could. A simple calculation proves this.

And a simple calculation proves the SS would never build
so many crematoriums and cremation furnaces unless they
were planning to carry out mass murder.

# The testimony given by the expert witness was that of
# only one man, 

"Expert"? This "expert" talks about corpses exploding and
igniting like a napalm bomb, burning the whole building
down (!!) - this is what he says. Some "expert" indeed.

Sounds like Fred Leuchter's claim about Bischoff ordering
to store corpses in a warm room, so they "will not freeze".

You people are insane. Seek medical help. Corpses igniting
like a can of gasoline. Corpses stored in warm rooms, so
they "will not freeze". Crazy "revisionists" meatheads...


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:35 PDT 1996
Article: 56339 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <3209ef8c.2261427@news.pacificnet.net>  <320b3dbe.339381@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:36:31 GMT
Lines: 48

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Your right. I don't have the proof. I recall reading
# about it in school, when I was a kid. There are no 
# photographs I presume, only stories. 

That's about it. Moran admits that he accepts the stories
of African slaves being "thrown over board enmass from ships 
transporting them to the Americas", although he has no
physical evidence whatsoever to support these stories.

# But I'll let you be the one to post a denial of this
# Afro-American history. 

I'm not denying it, zeide. 

YOU'RE the one in trouble here. You admit that you're
applying a double standard when evaluating the authenticity
of historical events. You demand standards for the 
Holocaust which you do not demand for other events.

You're up the creek, zeide. 

# Ninety nine percent (99%) of the Holocaust story is founded 
# on eyewitness testimonies 

A lie.

# that contradict each other.

Another lie.

# You Mr.Keren, continue to trash Afro-American history
# and I'll continue to trash the Holocaust story.  

I am not trashing Afro-American history; I am not a sadistic,
hateful Nazi like our "Holocaust revisionists", whose pleasure
in life is to spit on the graves of innocent men, women, and
children, murdered because of hate and barbarism.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:36 PDT 1996
Article: 56340 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!inquo!nebo.vii.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 01:05:33 GMT
Lines: 21

I suggest looking at the image files of the Topf
patent submitted shortly after the war. Topf,
remember, is the firm that built the Auschwitz-
Birkenau furnaces.

This is for someone interested in the facts, not
in "revisionist conjectures".

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/topf-und-soehne/images

tp4907-lrg-1b.gif (ref)
tp4907-lrg-2.gif (ref) 
tp4907-lrg-3.gif (ref) 


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 16:58:37 PDT 1996
Article: 56341 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4ueu6p$kcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 18:58:47 GMT
Lines: 50

You see Giwer - you stupid, lying slob - this is what 
we call research. Going and checking something, before
shooting off your mouth and accusing others of lying.

I take the chance to thank Mr. Van Alstine for
posting the appropriate text; I am rather far from
home and don't have Pressac's book here.

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
 
### the ventilation grills of Krema III were tested in
### 1945 and cyanide compounds were discovered on them.
 
## It is interesting that you felt compelled to make that up.  

# I didn't make it up. I am not a worthless liar like you.



  From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)

Document 54; _Technique_, p.233.

The caption to the photo reads:

"Rear view of one of the 145 galvenized plates, perforated by 
hand, which were set into and nailed to the wooden fresh air 
ducts in the upper part of Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorien II 
and III, now kept in PMO <> Block 25. Toxicological 
analyses were carried out in 1945 by the Cracow Forensic 
Institute (7 Copernicus Street) on 4 complete plates and 2 
damaged ventilation orifices found in the ruins of Kremtorium 
II. After scraping the white substance that covered these 
objects back to the metal, 7.2 grammes of scrapings were 
collected and subjected to two qualitative analyses, which 
established the presence of cyanide compounds. The report, 
signed by Dr. Jan Z Robel, was written on 15th December 
1945 and transmitted to the Examining Judge, Jan Sehn." 




-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 18:49:33 PDT 1996
Article: 56355 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net>  <320b47e2.2935741@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:23:03 GMT
Lines: 22

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# In such an event, the 
# burning body fats dripped into the waterproof ash pan and 
# continued to burn there. If the ash pan wasn't there, 
# however, the fluid would leak outside of the retort and 
# cause a fire outside the crematory.

This is amazing. This is probably the best validation of
the physical possibility of collecting burning fat (using
large pans) in the "cremation ditches", and pouring it
back on the corpses, to help the burning process. And
who do we have to thank for posting it?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 18:49:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56356 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Germar Rudolf Responds on Zyklon Outgassing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ugtd1$1qi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:38:51 GMT
Lines: 29

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# No one disputes that there are _holes_ the fact is that
# they are not in the locations where they could conceivably 
# be induction holes, according to both of your photographs.  

I have not seen any proof for this. I know this is what
"revisionists" claim, but I have not seen any proof for 
that. "Revisionists" also claim that Bischoff ordered
corpses stored in a hot room, "so they will not freeze".

My experience, after 5 years, is that "revisionists" are
not only dumb, but pathological liars as well. I do not
accept *anything* a "revisionist" says, before checking it.

# Moreover, they have the rebar sticking out and so on.

This is in other holes, created when the roof collapsed
and where the supporting pillar went through it, as I
understand.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 18:49:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56369 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com>  <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:29:43 GMT
Lines: 38

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# It is a fact that nowhere the cremation take less than 1
# our 1/4 to 1 hour  1/2 for a normal body. Nowhere in the
# world to my knowledge.

Excerpted from http://www.cremation.org:

 "A. The temperature at which cremations are done vary based
upon the retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 
1,500 to 1,900 degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies 
depending upon the type of machine. Low capacity retorts
take approximately 3 hours to complete a cremation while high 
capacity machines take less than one hour. In addition to the 
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
type of retort, the size of the individual and the number of 
cremations conducted during the day also affect the time. 
For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of 
the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. 
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Now bear in mind that this is current, commercial cremation,
where great care is taken. In Auschwitz it was a different story.

Re the Topf patent, I won't bother responding to your claims. 
As you people get more and more desperate, you start using 
arguments which are simply not worth replying to. One has
to put the limit somewhere.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 19:40:02 PDT 1996
Article: 56382 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4ueu6p$kcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4uheoq$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:16:52 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# As Alec would say, the URL?  

Mr. Van Alstine already posted the text from Pressac.

Learn to read, you fool.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 10 23:36:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56398 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:37:44 GMT
Lines: 51

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
gas chambers...

Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
in their jewellery and valuables..
-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 01:33:39 PDT 1996
Article: 56409 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4uie94$ibm@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:16:29 GMT
Lines: 19

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Why do you continue to neglect the fact that the 1933
# text was written at precisely the time when the diatomite
# component was being replaced with gypsum to slow down the
# evaporation time?

Enough with this rubbish already. It has been pointed out to
you a few times already that the Peters-Rasch paper is from
1941. Get a grip, Mr. Kennady.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 02:11:14 PDT 1996
Article: 3705 of alt.bible.prophecy
Newsgroups: alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.israel
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Holocaust Revisionism' Nonsense (Re: Noah & other bible myths)
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t7glq$s7l@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4tkmh4$i0v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <32086826.655900565@news.ezo.net> <4ubuk8$3fh@metroux.metrobbs.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 23:41:10 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.christnet:90273 alt.christnet.bible:47747 alt.bible.prophecy:3705 alt.religion.christian:110996 talk.religion.misc:140665 soc.culture.israel:40916

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

goth@big10.metrobbs.com (paul goddard) writes:

# The curater in charge of the alleged gas chamber  at               
# Auschwitz who shows this to tourists admitted in private
# and on video tape that the "gas chamber" was built after    
# the war and is a fraud.

This is an outright lie; even "revisionists" admit that
there are cyanide traces on the walls of the gas chamber.

People were killed with cyanide gas in this room, although
not as many as were killed in the gas chambers of Birkenau
(Auschwitz II).


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 02:11:17 PDT 1996
Article: 3712 of alt.bible.prophecy
Newsgroups: alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.religion.christian,talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.israel
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Holocaust Revisionism' Nonsense (Re: Noah & other bible myths)
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4t7glq$s7l@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4tkmh4$i0v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <01bb7e8b$aaf5a5c0$29f612c7@jrjohn.cannet.com> <4toq3n$ef8@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 23:22:14 GMT
Lines: 47
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.christnet:90284 alt.christnet.bible:47751 alt.bible.prophecy:3712 alt.religion.christian:111004 talk.religion.misc:140671 soc.culture.israel:40925

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

mario4@ix.netcom.com(Mario Martinez) writes:

# In trying to prove this nonsense by being "objective"  

You're most probably referring to "revisionist" David Cole,
of CA. He's a 25-year-old highschool dropout. I've read his
stuff; it's rather silly.

# He proceeds to indicate that if there was a holocaust it would
#  have been well known throught the following means: 
#
# 1) Allied intelligence would have known about the holocaust
# through the broken German codes(Enigma) 

The Brits certainly knew about the mass murder before the
end of the war.

# 2)Aerial photos from bombers would have photos of bodies in
# the camp 

Well, there were plenty of bodies in the camps when the
Allied soldiers got there! Moreover, there are no aerial
photos of any massive death camp I know of but for
Auschwitz; but you won't see any bodies there, as they
were usually burned inside the crematorium buildings,
in the numerous cremation furnaces. There's one photo,
taken in the camp, showing a pile of bodies burned in
the open (this was during a period in which the crematoriums
couldn't handle the number of people being murdered).

There's also the question of identifying corpses from 
such a distance. 

# 3) There would have been accounts from eyewitnesses.

There most definitely are many such accounts.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 02:16:44 PDT 1996
Article: 56428 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uhi8c$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4uie8k$ibj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 22:11:12 GMT
Lines: 44

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# The problem I have here is twofold:  The aerial
@ photographs show no indication of the Krema roofs 
# being covered with dirt.

The photograph - at least the copy we have - is not
of high enough quality to determine this. My feeling
is that some kind of contrast stretching was applied
to it (histogram equalization, maybe).

# Second, neither a height of 23 inches or 6 inches 
# (with the dirt) would conceivably cast the kind of 
# *shadow* we see in the picture.

There is no shadow. It's just a dark region, which looks
larger than it really was, because of the strong blurring.
One can easily verify this by examining the gray levels
in a cross-section of the region. I tried to explain this
to Giwer, but it is hopeless. His estimate of their
size is off by a factor of about 3, which, well, is not
too bad for him.

The dark region is most probably due to a cover - tarpaulin,
perhaps - on the covers of the chimneys. 

# Such dimensions also have nothing to do with the 3 x 4 
# foot crates of roofing material in the by now famous 
# photograph.

You have no idea and no proof whatsoever that they are
crates of roofing material. You're simply inventing this.

Let me offer an advice: don't try to comment on anything
technical. This seems to be way out of your element.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:33 PDT 1996
Article: 56434 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net>  <320b47e2.2935741@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:15:15 GMT
Lines: 57

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Do I agree, "Yes or no?"

Still waiting for an answer.

# How can I agree with expert testimony if I'm not an expert?

In other words, you're quite sure that Legace's theory
about the corpses possibly igniting like a can of gasoline
and burning the building down is a load of crap, but you're
not honest enough to say so, right?

You'll go with any load of crap and insanity that your
fuehrers will put forward, now ain't that right?

Is it standard conduct to heat up cremation furnaces before
introducing new corpses? Yes or no? You're not going to
answer this one as well, right?

I am reposting yet again the excerpt from the www.cremation.org
home page:

 "For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation 
of the day takes about two hours and the second takes about 
an hour. That is because the retort already has a high internal 
temperature at the beginning of the second cremation".

So?

# I take it your angle is that this should support Holocaust
# lies about people piled up in pits, on top of each other, in 
# the open air, that will continue to burn after the introduction 
# (splashing) of a flammable substance over the bodies.

First, there's a difference between "burning" and "igniting
and burning the building down". Corpses will burn; this is
not the point. The point is whether they'll explode like a
can of gasoline, which is what Legace claims.

Large amounts of wood were also used. BTW, I have a photograph
of large pyres of Germans, who died in the bombing of Dresden,
and who were being burned in a manner strikingly similar to
the way in which corpses were sometimes burned in the death camps.

So now what? Now you people will *really* have to start claiming
Dreseden's bombing is a hoax, right? 


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56435 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Reaches new Heights Of Insanity (Re: the Zyklon B 
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uegil$cra@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>  <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:06:06 GMT
Lines: 65

    Summary: Giwer reflects on the strength of the SS-men, 
            and reaches some amazing conclusions
    -----------------------------------------------------

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# I have no idea what you are talking about.  Both an 
# exponential and a polynomial curve fit are given.  

Extrapolated from one single (erroneous) data point.

Didn't Rudolph himself agree in his e-mail to "ehrlich"
that his conclusions were false?

# As everyone should know, any curve can be represented by
# any other curve with only quality of fit being of interest.  

I have a great deal of interest in fitting data. Perhaps
you can explain what you wrote above. It has no mathematical
meaning whatsoever.

# If there is MORE accurate information in that paper, POST
# THE GRAPH given in that paper.  Post the paper at least.  

The paper is posted on the web for about 2 months now, as
you know well. The most relevant and important piece of
information there is that, even at very low temp., the
whole HCN outgassed in "an hour, or at most two". And this
is from 1941, so we're talking about WW2 era Zyklon, not
some other product manufactured 50 years later.

# Go take another look at it and note the amount released in
# the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common 
# description of the time frame.  THEN calculate backwards 
# to find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve 
# lethality in that time frame.  
#
# And then, when you discover that two people could not carry 
# enough to do it, 

This is somewhat sad. Giwer, you're insane.

Let's take a look at the Peters-Rasch paper (page 136).

The second experiment they're discussing deals with a place
with a volume of 4,311 cubic meters. That's more than 10
times the volume of the largest gas chambers.

They used 43.2 Kg. But, remember, this is for a room more
than 10 times larger than the gas chambers, plus you're
talking about delousing, which requires a far higher
concentration than homicidal gassing. So you're talking
about 4 Kg or so. The SS-men could carry that up the
ladder, I assume.

Get a grip. You're going down the tubes.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56460 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 04:08:16 GMT
Lines: 35

Philip Mueller writes about the murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau
[Quoted from "Auschwitz Inferno", p. 151]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
One could see that most of the SS-men had a bad conscience. They
hadn't shown any scruples about annihilating Jews, the killing
of whom was now a daily routine for all of them, yet they clearly
found it unpleasant and distressing to help exterminate people
with whom they had been on quite good terms up to now. But in
this dismal place there was no room for sentiment. The
extermination routine took its usual course. [Hauptscharfuehrer]
Moll and his helpers cocked their pistols and rifles and, in a 
way that allowed no misunderstanding, asked the people, who
in the meanwhile had undressed, to leave the changing room at
once and go into those rooms in which they were to be gassed.
As they took their last walk, many wept in despair, others
crossed themselves and prayed to God, and yet others, who even
now were unwilling to come to terms with their inevitable fate,
turned to the SS-men and, gesticulating wildly, shouted without
stopping: "We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!".

For a while desperate shouts and cries could be heard coming from
the gas chambers until the gas had done its deadly work and chocked
the last voice.




-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:35 PDT 1996
Article: 56475 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:35:40 GMT
Lines: 30



Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.




-Danny Keren.
-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 07:34:36 PDT 1996
Article: 56477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Hitler's Army'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 22:44:08 GMT
Lines: 15

Did anyone read Omer Bartov's book "Hitler's Army"?

Also, does anyone have exact statistics about the number
of German soldiers executed by the German Army?

Thanks,


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 11:33:30 PDT 1996
Article: 56499 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uhi9k$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:20:43 GMT
Lines: 10

Your point being?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 12:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 56535 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Shhh! Don't mention it
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320b3e8f.548700@news.pacificnet.net>  <320c94a9.2618604@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:14:20 GMT
Lines: 18

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Gas chambers employing HCN may be fact, but doing it with
# pellets is not part of the fact.

It's the same gas, zeide. It will kill people never
mind what its source was.

Get a grip. 


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 13:25:18 PDT 1996
Article: 56557 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4t92d2$9o5@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4u5keo$lqu@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 21:30:38 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

Giwer claimed I posted something. When asked to present
it, he writes:

# Your memory gets very short when you want it to be
# short.  Do you really think I keep copies of everything
# you post?  

Listen, you senile piece of dreck. If you're accusing me
of posting something, you better have the proof. 

You bloody idiot. Look up dejanews, if you can't recall 
where I posted it. 


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 15:52:41 PDT 1996
Article: 56583 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Legace and His Exploding Corpses
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 21:04:31 GMT
Lines: 44

This is from the Internet Cremation Society FAQ:



Q. At what temperature is the cremation done and is this a standard or
do some facilities vary? How long does the actual cremation process
take and does this also vary with temperature?

A. The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the
retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900
degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the
type of machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to
complete a cremation while high capacity machines take less than one
hour. In addition to the type of retort, the size of the individual
and the number of cremations conducted during the day also affect the
time. For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of
the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. That
is because the retort already has a high internal temperature at the
beginning of the second cremation.



I guess these folks never heard about the "brilliant" theory offered
by "revisionist scholar", Ivan Legace: namely, that corpses may ignite
like a can of gasoline when inserted into a hot cremation furnace,
hence making it difficult to cremate many corpses one after the
other (as was done in Auschwitz-Birkenau).

My question still stands: can Legace present any evidence whatsoever
to his "theory"? Any such case of a corpse inserted into a hot
cremation furnace igniting in such a manner?

What do our local "revisionist scholars" say? This is, after all,
Legace's "strongest" argument. Comment? Ole Kreiberg may want to
respond; he brought this matter up.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:24:26 PDT 1996
Article: 56647 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <8b7cc$8321b.3aa@news.comet.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:41:17 GMT
Lines: 17
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82461 alt.revisionism:56647 talk.politics.european-union:5458

georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:

# According to German records, slightly more non Jewish
# Poles died in Auschwitz than Jewish.

This is absolutely ridiculous. About 100,000 non-Jewish
Poles were murdered in Auschwitz-Birkenau, as compared
to about 1 million Jews.

Unless you're referring to Polish Jews only; many of the
Jewish victims were from Hungary, Greece, Holland and
other countries.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:35:18 PDT 1996
Article: 39025 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4ujjeu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:15:07 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2505 alt.revisionism:56658 alt.conspiracy:77036 alt.politics.white-power:39025 soc.culture.jewish:67585 talk.politics.guns:297599 talk.politics.libertarian:110745 talk.abortion:181147 alt.christnet:90785

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You mean like the name who was gassed six times and lived
# to tell about it?  

Giwer applies the oldest "revisionist" trick in the book - use
one (most probably false) testimony to argue that all the
events of the Holocaust never took place.

Never mind that, as he knows well, the person who made
this testimony was only 11-years-old when the war ended, 
which obviously makes him a far less reliable witness. 
But Giwer will not mention this, of course.

As has been posted here in the past, every event of such
kind will produce some erroneous testimonies. Like these
crazy testimonies about Dresden's bombing: people melting
into "puddles of melted human flesh", or turning into
a "fine layer of ash", although the fire didn't even
touch them!

So now what? Dresden's bombing is a "hoax" too?

# Be the first provide physical evidence that the subject
# happened. 

There's plenty of evidence, including the cyanide traces
on the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers. And Giwer 
knows this. For a typical "Giwerian argument" about the
Holocaust, see below. And bear in mind that Giwer claims
to have an IQ of 163.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:58:51 PDT 1996
Article: 56656 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com>  <320e0f94.5338270@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:04:13 GMT
Lines: 37

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# 16 to 1, Mr.Keren.

Not really. The 15 minutes for 4 corpses is probably an
underestimate, and most estimates I've seen give a longer
time.

What you apparently cannot realize is that, today, a few
corpses aren't burned in the same furnace, but this is
out of respect for the dead, and the need to collect
the ashes of each individual. There were no such
considerations in Auschwitz.

Plus, in Auschwitz-Birkenau, a high percentage of the 
victims were children and infants, who weigh very
little and take up a very little space.

The question is, were the 52 cremation furnaces enough
to burn a great number of corpses daily? The answer is,
obviously, yes; even if one assumes 12 hours per day
per furnace, and 2 corpses per hour, that still gives
52*12*2 = 1,248 corpses per day; and this is a conservative
estimate, much lower than what the SS had estimated.

No one builds so many crematoriums and so many cremation
furnaces unless he is planning mass murder.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:58:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56658 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4ujjeu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:15:07 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2505 alt.revisionism:56658 alt.conspiracy:77036 alt.politics.white-power:39025 soc.culture.jewish:67585 talk.politics.guns:297599 talk.politics.libertarian:110745 talk.abortion:181147 alt.christnet:90785

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You mean like the name who was gassed six times and lived
# to tell about it?  

Giwer applies the oldest "revisionist" trick in the book - use
one (most probably false) testimony to argue that all the
events of the Holocaust never took place.

Never mind that, as he knows well, the person who made
this testimony was only 11-years-old when the war ended, 
which obviously makes him a far less reliable witness. 
But Giwer will not mention this, of course.

As has been posted here in the past, every event of such
kind will produce some erroneous testimonies. Like these
crazy testimonies about Dresden's bombing: people melting
into "puddles of melted human flesh", or turning into
a "fine layer of ash", although the fire didn't even
touch them!

So now what? Dresden's bombing is a "hoax" too?

# Be the first provide physical evidence that the subject
# happened. 

There's plenty of evidence, including the cyanide traces
on the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas chambers. And Giwer 
knows this. For a typical "Giwerian argument" about the
Holocaust, see below. And bear in mind that Giwer claims
to have an IQ of 163.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 17:58:53 PDT 1996
Article: 56673 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: THE HYPOCRISY OF THE JEW
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com> <01bb8647.1c6fa760$5fa11dcb@peasant> <4ui345$21j@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ujc08$qco@opera.iinet.net.au>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:21:30 GMT
Lines: 18
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reverend@iinet.net.au (peter wheeler) writes:

# When those Jew Boys saw Jacko moonwalking towards their
# holy grail they went beserk and tries to lynch him.

I think you're confusing Michael Jackson with Ciciolina... but
that is somewhat understandable :-).


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:56 PDT 1996
Article: 56684 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wir scheissen auf die Freiheit der Judenrepublik
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uil7o$gbi@epimetheus.algonet.se>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:12:04 GMT
Lines: 18

hebe@algonet.se writes:

# I don't know if my english is the best but, I ask all
# revisionists a question: how do you pinheads dismiss texts
# like this, when you're denying the Holocaust? The Holocaust
# happened!

They know that. And they want it to happen again.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:57 PDT 1996
Article: 56686 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4ujmcm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:30:01 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2511 alt.revisionism:56686

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# A quick suggestion is that they were guerilla fighters and
# died in a reprisal.  The rules of warfare at the time 
# prohibited guerilla fighters and resistance movements.  

No, no, Giwer. That won't do.

1) Jager's report explicitly mentions a huge number of
   Jewish women and children executed by his Einsatzkommando.

2) Himmler's report to Hitler includes a breakdown of the
   different categories of victims. Partisans etc. are listed
   in a separate category. But 363,000 Jews are also listed
   as being executed, during the four months covered by the
   report.

3) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
   Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941: clearly states that the
   Jews did not represent a danger to the German Army.

You're a very stupid, very evil, very sick person, Matt Giwer.

I only pray that your children (if you have any) are better
than you.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:58 PDT 1996
Article: 56701 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:33:54 GMT
Lines: 48

Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p. 256-268]
----------------------------------------------------------------
2 September 1942

3.00 a.m. attended my first Sonderaktion. Dante's Inferno seems to 
me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the
extermination camp for nothing!

5 September 1942

In the morning attended a Sonderaktion from the women's concentration
camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Hschf. Thilo -- army
doctor -- was right when he said to me this is the 'anus mundi'. In
the evening towards 8.00 attended another Sonderaktion from
Holland.

['Muslims' does not mean "practicing Islam"; this is the way the SS
 referred to emaciated people].

10 October 1942

Extracted and fixed fresh live material from liver, spleen and
pancreas...

11 October 1942

Today, Sunday, there was roast hare for lunch -- a real fat leg -- with
dumplings and red cabbage for 1.25 RM.

12 October 1942

Second inoculation against typhus, later on in the evening severe
generalized reaction (fever). Despite this in the night attended a
further Sonderaktion from Holland (1,600 persons). Ghastly scenes in
front of the last bunker! That was the 10th Sonderaktion.


13 November 1942

Extracted fresh live material (liver, spleen and pancreas) from a
previously photographed, severely atrophied Jewish prisoner aged
eighteen. Fixed as always, liver and spleen in Carnoy and pancreas in
Zenker (Prisoner No. 68,030).





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:59 PDT 1996
Article: 56702 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:34:36 GMT
Lines: 26

Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
should be ready by February 20th.


Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943
[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door
100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to
the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of
Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of
double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:46:59 PDT 1996
Article: 56706 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Death in Mauthausen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <839684926snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:48:56 GMT
Lines: 47

Alexander Baron  writes:

# page 54: in the 1950s and 60s there was "a regrettable 
# confusion...which often resulted in the shower room [at
# Maidanek] being presented as a gas chamber..."

Possible, although I wouldn't take Pressac as a 100 percent
accurate source. As I've said many times in the past, the
main value of his work is the large collection of documents
in it.

And if someone made such a mistake, so what?

# page 55: "The assistant director of the museum, in speaking
# to me affirms that this gas chamber was hardly used, hardly 
# used in the slightest, which means that it was not really 
# used at all. This fiction is maintained in order not to 
# undermine the popular belief that a crematorium needs to 
# have a homicidal gas chamber to go with it..."

Before I respond, what camp and what gas chamber is being
discusses here?

I agree that a cremation furnace does not have to have a
gas chamber attached to it. Your point?

# Are you sure a similar thing didn't happen at Mauthausen, 
# Dan? 

Shrug. Prove it.

# Hasn't the immediate post-war death toll of 4 million for this
# one camp been drastically reduced?

I was not aware of this figure. If it was indeed given, it
is absurd. This is what we have historians for, to correct 
such errors.

Like the number of victims in Dresden, ranging from 25,000
to 500,000. This is what we have historians for. This is 
why we do research. To find the truth. Not to claim that
because someone made some error, the whole story is a hoax.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:00 PDT 1996
Article: 56708 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4uer5l$ndi@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4uhad7$si7@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 20:15:28 GMT
Lines: 43

I wrote to Giwer:

## It's just a statement: you're a lying piece of trash who
## accuses people of posting things they never posted.

Giwer knows it's true; he can't deny it or defend
himself, so he resorts to posting Morgen's testimony.

Is there any psychologist in the audience? This man
is obviously insane.

I was also wondering if Giwer's lies about me having
posted this-and-that (which I never posted), are considered
libel, or, at the least, a violation of internet
ethics? I'm not talking about censorship here; I'm
talking about a filthy liar who accuses me of posting
things I never posted. I do not mean to censor Giwer,
but should lies like this be tolerated?

# "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person
# was given a check at each one so that the people believed 
# that they would get their things back ... When the last 
# one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
# into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators 
# were started. When the air could be breathed again, the 
# doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. 
# By means of a special procedure... they were burned in the 
# open air without the use of fuel."

Has it occurred to you that he's talking about fuel as in
gasoline etc, and not wood? More so since your quotation
is truncated, and the original includes Morgen's reference 
to Wirth having invented the method, and Wirth's men did 
use large amounts of wood to burn corpses in the death camps?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:01 PDT 1996
Article: 56709 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ugtcu$1qe@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:34:03 GMT
Lines: 57

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)

# OK, then list some functions that decrease faster which will
# still have 80% to 90% of the product remaining after two 
# hours.  I gather that is what he is getting at.

But Peters-Rasch say there was no residue after an hour
or at most two.

# What is the *much more accurate* numbers from the 
# Peters-Rasch paper? 

See above; plus other numbers about the density of the
HCN in the air. 

# There are, as I recall, without alleged functions, graphs, 
# or specificity in the matter of outgassing.  

Better no graphs than graphs extrapolated from one (erroneous)
point of data.

## It also contradicts the information in Dr. Peter's book
## that the large part evaporates in half-an-hour.

# Yes, and that information was provided in 1933, 
# at _precisely_ the time when gypsum was being added to 
# the diatomite to slow down the evaporation rate.

We're talking about the Erco carrier, aren't we?

Moreover, the Peters-Rasch paper is from 1941, as noted
already. Your claim is irrelevant.

# Given your prior dismissals to the other posts along these
# lines (lies, irrelevant, contradicted by, etc.), I have to
# say that I consider the guarded concession above as 
# hysterically funny.

Sigh. I'm just trying to be accurate. The "revisionists" used
to claim it would take "days" for the HCN to outgas. Now
they dropped this, and the "debate" is about 37% in half-hour
vs. say, 70-80% in half hour. 

There's no "guarded concession" on my part, but for in your
hallucinations. All I'm saying is that even if the 37%
figure was correct, the Zyklon would still kill the people
fast enough. I don't suppose you disagree?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:02 PDT 1996
Article: 56711 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <320c8ca2.563475@news.pacificnet.net> <4uju8p$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:25:56 GMT
Lines: 51

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# The self proclaimed PhD mathematician 

My Ph.D is in computer science, as I have said a few times.

# has not posted one
# calculation since I have been here this time.  

Yes I did.

# I would think by now it is clear this person has not the
# slightest concept of math.

I understand your anger and frustration. I understand your
inferiority complex. I realize that you are a loser; your
life is behind you. 

Why would a genius such as yourself retire at the age of
46. One really wonders at that.

You take pride at being an engineer, as I recall. I have
a (rather subjective, I admit) definition of what a 
good engineer is: someone who really understands the
concept of a derivative. Most engineers don't. I don't 
believe you do.

So, you seek revenge by saying that I don't know anything
about math. Fine. That's your right.

Since what we're discussing here is fitting data, you may
want to look at my paper about this, presented at the 
1995 conference on maximum entropy and Bayesian methods, 
before you pass judgement on my mathematical skills. I 
guess that computing integrals over infinite-dimensional 
Hilbert spaces and stuff like that is child's play for you, 
so there should be no difficulties?

I'd be happy to send you a postscript file of the paper.
Just let me know.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:02 PDT 1996
Article: 56716 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wir scheissen auf die Freiheit der Judenrepublik
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uil7o$gbi@epimetheus.algonet.se> <320D09E3.69F4@kaiwan.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:51:04 GMT
Lines: 27

Greg Raven  writes:

# Finally, people from all walks of live, of all religious faiths, 
# and all racial backgrounds, agree with the revisionist view of 
# the Holocaust.


 
 Category 15,  Topic 4
 Message 33        Fri Mar 13, 1992
 G.RAVEN                      at 03:02 EST
 
My only concern is in going after the facts. As such, I am not 
interested in defending Adolf Hitler to my dying breath. I will say,
however, that he was a great man ... certainly greater than
Churchill and FDR put together, and possibly the greatest leader of 
our century, if not longer. This is not to say that he was perfect, 
but he about the best thing that could have happened to Germany.




-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:03 PDT 1996
Article: 56722 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Let's Hear Both Sides of the Holocaust story
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D0B4A.73C7@kaiwan.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:48:17 GMT
Lines: 54

Greg Raven  writes:

There are so many lies in this old piece of garbage.

Let's address a few:

# We now also know that the postwar "confession" of Auschwitz
# commandant Rudolf Hoess, which is a crucial part of the
# Holocaust extermination story, is a false statement that
# was obtained by torture. (note 2)

There's no evidence - repeat, no evidence whatsoever - that
Hoess, or any other SS-men or women, whose testimony is posted
here, was tortured during his/her trial.

Moreover, most of those who testified about the death camps
did so in German courts. Not even the craziest "revisionist"
suggests they were "tortured" by the Germans.

Re Hoess, looking at his memoirs, it is obvious that they
were not dictated to him by the Soviets or the Poles; I can
elaborate more if there's interest.

# These unfortunate people were victims, not of an extermination
# program, but of disease and malnutrition brought on by the 
# complete collapse of Germany in the final months of the war.

We've been through this. The death rate was 10 percent per
month in July, August, September 1942, in the "work camps". 
Long before the final months of the war.

The SS-men and women didn't starve in the final months of the
war. Nor did the German civilians near the camps. 

# At the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated
# a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with Germany's 
# wartime Jewish policy, which was sometimes officially referred 
# to as the "final solution." But not a single German document 
# has ever been found which even refers to an extermination program.

How odd. A document stating that Jews "unfit for work" will be
killed with poison gas, is not evidence for an extermination
program? A report about one Nazi unit executing over 130,000
Jews, third of them children, during 5 months, is not evidence 
for an extermination program?

Sigh. Raven, you're such a stupid little liar. All you can do
is repost this old dreck, over and over again. Moran and Giwer
are semi-retarded, but they at least *try* to debate.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 21:47:04 PDT 1996
Article: 56729 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4uheoq$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4ujifm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 03:39:36 GMT
Lines: 26

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Yes, I read it.  It is of no value to this discussion.  
#
# I have already stipulated that cyanide is useful in
# fumigating morgues.  

One only wonders why only one "morgue" had a gas-tight 
door. Moreover, some of your fuehrers now say it was 
really a delousing chamber, while others say it was an 
air-raid shelter. They don't seem to be able to decide.

And you lied when you said no such forensic examinations
were undertaken.

But you're a pathological liar. We know that.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 11 22:28:48 PDT 1996
Article: 2511 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4ujmcm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:30:01 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2511 alt.revisionism:56686

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# A quick suggestion is that they were guerilla fighters and
# died in a reprisal.  The rules of warfare at the time 
# prohibited guerilla fighters and resistance movements.  

No, no, Giwer. That won't do.

1) Jager's report explicitly mentions a huge number of
   Jewish women and children executed by his Einsatzkommando.

2) Himmler's report to Hitler includes a breakdown of the
   different categories of victims. Partisans etc. are listed
   in a separate category. But 363,000 Jews are also listed
   as being executed, during the four months covered by the
   report.

3) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
   Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941: clearly states that the
   Jews did not represent a danger to the German Army.

You're a very stupid, very evil, very sick person, Matt Giwer.

I only pray that your children (if you have any) are better
than you.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:48 PDT 1996
Article: 56735 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Lies About My Articles (Re: A revisionist FA
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com> <320e06f7.13579837@news.inetport.com> <4uld7l$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 00:39:30 GMT
Lines: 40

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Of course we all agree, now that Keren has sworn to it, 
# that modern methods are 16 times slower than the method that
# used Nazi physics.  

I haven't. You're a liar.

One can accept when a blatant misquote like this happens
once, or twice. With you, it's a rule.

The only conclusion: you're lying intentionally. You're a
lying piece of scum.

Don't ever believe what this person writes. He's a pathological
liar. When confronted with this fact, he doesn't even try to
defend himself, or deny it. 

Anyone willing to believe his crap about his father being
ill after the phone call allegedly made to him? Anyone
willing to believe one single thing this piece of dreck
is posting? He probably invented this crap, to gather sympathy.

Show us the tube that was allegedly shoved up your dad's nose, 
Giwer. Then we may believe you. Maybe.

Didn't the piece of dreck claim to have a daughter, and
later posted that he doesn't have one at all?

Who can believe anything the dreck posts?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 56751 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4umgee$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 07:07:37 GMT
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# So you agree there is no physical evidence of gassing.  
# Very good.  At least you are honest.  

He didn't admit anything of the sort. As usual, you are
lying and attributing to people things they never said.

All this "forensic evidence" is a lame joke and you
know it. You cannot supply any such "forensic evidence"
to any event in WW2. You were asked to provide such 
evidence to the fact that Dresden was bombed, and you
could not produce anything. Zero. Zilch.

The funny thing is that, for the gassings at Auschwitz-
Birkenau, there's *more* of this type of evidence than
for your average historical event: the cyanide compounds
on the walls of the gas chambers.

# Take a random sampling of camp inmates and ask of
# gassing is happening.  70% say yes.

And your source for the 70% is? None. You've invented it.

# Take a random samply of US Blacks and ask if AIDS was 
# created by the government to exterminate Blacks. 
# 70% say yes.

Source? Not that this is really relevant, I'm just curious to
know if it's true.

Now, is this some kind of a new Giwerian argument? If more
than 50% of the population believe something is true, this
means it's not true? Heck, there goes WW2. After all,
more than 50% of the population think it took place.

You're stupid beyond words.

See below.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:49 PDT 1996
Article: 56755 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Science Hour
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 02:40:03 GMT
Lines: 56

More "scientific hilites" from Matt "dreck" Giwer:



 From:         mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
Message-Id:   <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this
>is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released
>within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh,
>in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent
>in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent
>to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself.

>There is more information to support the faster release rates;
>I'll post it soon.

 Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any 
release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.  And keep 
in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm 
enough.  That is, the second half hour would be another 40% 
of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour.



The stupid piece of dreck claims that, at a temperature of
20 degrees, no HCN will be released from the Zyklon.

Can anyone believe how stupid the dreck is?

Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN
evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far
lower temperatures than 20 degrees. The dreck knows this.

The piece of dreck is not only a pathological liar who
routinely slanders people, he's also very stupid.

And the dreck is probably going to reply to this by
posting something totally irrelevant. That's what he does
when he has no answer. Yo, dreck, post Morgen's testimony
again. You know, the one with the important part carefully
edited out.


-Danny Keren.





-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:50 PDT 1996
Article: 56781 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Reaches new Heights Of Insanity (Re: the Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uegil$cra@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4uk2df$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 20:45:43 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# If you do not understand the r value of a curve fit then
# you do not understand a thing.  You have never heard of
# the deviance of the data from the chosen curve fit?  Do
# you wish to continue with your claim?

Do believe me: I know much more about fitting data with 
curves, or surfaces, than you. 

If you have a coherent claim of some kind, present it.

# From a PhD in math who never heard of the rms 
# "r"esidual values of deviation from the chosen curve 
# fit model, I am hardly impressed.

To quote, "BAWAWA"!

Do tell me about the residual. Do tell me about the 
reliability of fitting a data set with a curve. 

Go ahead, amuse us.

# So where is what you were challenged to present?  

I presented it. 

Are you still claiming the four SS-men together couldn't
carry 4 Kg of Zyklon up the ladder? 

Why don't you show us your calculations? That should be a
riot.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:51 PDT 1996
Article: 56807 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: All Roads Lead to Zero
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320b3feb.896046@news.pacificnet.net> <4uk421$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4ukoat$9hr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4uldnj$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:10:01 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

# 16 times faster than the best of modern technology
# according to Keren.

Yet another lie from our pathological liar. I can only
repeat my response to Moran:

Not really. The 15 minutes for 4 corpses is probably an
underestimate, and most estimates I've seen give a longer
time.

What you apparently cannot realize is that, today, a few
corpses aren't burned in the same furnace, but this is
out of respect for the dead, and the need to collect
the ashes of each individual. There were no such
considerations in Auschwitz.

Plus, in Auschwitz-Birkenau, a high percentage of the 
victims were children and infants, who weigh very
little and take up a very little space.

The question is, were the 52 cremation furnaces enough
to burn a great number of corpses daily? The answer is,
obviously, yes; even if one assumes 12 hours per day
per furnace, and 2 corpses per hour, that still gives
52*12*2 = 1,248 corpses per day; and this is a conservative
estimate, much lower than what the SS had estimated.

No one builds so many crematoriums and so many cremation
furnaces unless he is planning mass murder.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56813 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: The Giwer Science Hour (Re: The Department Of Defense Wan
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ueopt$lf3@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.co <4umhht$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:48:27 GMT
Lines: 61
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2540 alt.revisionism:56813 alt.conspiracy:77207 alt.politics.white-power:39117 soc.culture.jewish:67685 talk.politics.guns:297832 talk.politics.libertarian:110933 talk.abortion:181199 alt.christnet:90953

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But as you are completely ignorant of any science, including
# chemisty, you have no way of judging the matter. 

The following proves that highschool chemistry is way beyond Giwer:



 From:         mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
Message-Id:   <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this
>is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released
>within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh,
>in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent
>in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent
>to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself.

>There is more information to support the faster release rates;
>I'll post it soon.

 Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any 
release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.  And keep 
in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm 
enough.  That is, the second half hour would be another 40% 
of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour.



Giwer claims that, at a temperature of 20 degrees, no HCN 
will be released from the Zyklon.

Can anyone believe how stupid Giwer is?

Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN
evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far
lower temperatures than 20 degrees. Giwer knows this.

Giwer is not only a pathological liar who routinely slanders 
people, he's also very stupid.

And he's is probably going to reply to this by
posting something totally irrelevant. That's what he does
when he has no answer. Yo, Giwer, post Morgen's testimony
again. You know, the one with the important part carefully
edited out.


-Danny Keren.





-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 07:53:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56822 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ujmcm$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4umg8f$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:33:57 GMT
Lines: 66
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2542 alt.revisionism:56822

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## 1) Jager's report explicitly mentions a huge number of
## Jewish women and children executed by his Einsatzkommando.

# That is called a reprisal.  The same thing was done in France.

You stupid dreck. Jager's unit - ONE unit - killed over
130,000 Jews, a third of them children, during five
months, in one area.

This is "reprisal"? Against what? When did the Nazis do
anything like this in France?

# Perhaps you could post that some day in your copious free time?

Report No. 51 of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to Hitler about mass 
executions in the east, 1942
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 269-272]
----------------------------------------------------------------
                              August  September  October  November   

Prisoners executed
after interrogation            2,100    1,400     1,596     2,731    
 .
 .
Accomplices of guerrilla and
guerrilla suspects executed    1,198    3,020     6,333     3,706    
 .
 .
Jews executed                 31,246   165,282    95,735   70,948
 .
 .
Villages and localities
Burned down or destroyed        35       12         20       92




# I do not have to pray, I know.  His shooting skills simply
# are not as good as mine as yet.  It is just a matter of time.  
# He is also slower to anger than I, perhaps due to his weighing 
# near 300 lbs and built like Alley Oop.  But then, it is the 
# dark alley of your oop. 

Don't try to scare me, dreck. 

I still hope that he's not a useless piece of dreck like you.

But then, that's most probably the case. After all, what is
the probability of two piece of dreck like you forming at
the same 50 years? Nature doesn't make such a mistake
too often, let us hope.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 13:05:32 PDT 1996
Article: 56892 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com>  <4ulbaj$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:15:47 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# A little factor of 16 to 1 never did bother a holohugger.  
# The world would be wise to use the Topf design to reduce 
# cremation times by a factor of 16.

I never claimed such a factor. And, in the world today,
more than one corpse would not be cremated in the same
muffle, out of respect for the dead. And, in today's
typical crematoria, there are not many infants and
children among the victims. But such was the case
in Birkenau.

But you know this. You're just waging a war of attrition.
That's all a little zero like you can do; lie and
try to exhaust the opposition by endlessly repeating
the same lies. However, dreck, I'm here to stay. This
is a promise, dreck.

It's even easier when you're unemployed, due to reasons
which are becoming quite clear. Who will want to hire
an imbecile and a pathological liar? Even if his IQ
is 163 (he-he).



-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 13:05:34 PDT 1996
Article: 56893 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Germar Rudolf Responds on Zyklon Outgassing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ugtd1$1qi@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4un0r2$a46@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:51:51 GMT
Lines: 31

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Why do you insist on changing the subject especially
# when I don't even know what you are referring to?

The subject is the reliability and intelligence of
Nazi apologists.

# Rudolf and Caecaa have both been to the location, and
# say the holes aren't there.

I don't believe liars. I don't believe Nazis.

Pressac's book does show a photo of what appears to
be a rather neat, square hole.

# It seems to me the only way we can
# check is to go and see for ourselves.

This will be done.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 13:05:35 PDT 1996
Article: 56894 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:00:36 GMT
Lines: 43

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# But what I saw were indications about the behavior of
# Zyklon at below zero temps over 48 and 24 hour periods.

I am somewhat surprised to see this. You know very well
that the issue was the amount of HCN in the air during
24-48 hours, and that the paper explicitly said it
had completely evaporated from the Zyklon after at
most two hours.

# No, Rudolf is clearly describing diagreiss (gypsum and
# diatomite) and nothing else.

But WE are talking about the Erco carrier which was used
for gassing! So you're saying nothing was added to it, to
slow the release of the HCN from it.

# Indeed, neither Rudolf nor Lueftl has ever claimed that
# 10 minutes was not a sufficient time for a sufficient 
# outgassing to kill everyone.

No, only Matt "dreck" Giwer is stupid enough to claim this.
The others are stupid, but not *that* stupid.

As I recall, Rudolph claims the victims could catch the
pellets *and throw them back out* at the SS-men. He does
say that, right?

Is there no limit to human stupidity? How stupid can these
Nazi apologists be?


-Danny Keren.




-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 14:38:39 PDT 1996
Article: 56906 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Keren, the latter day Einstein
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4umujo$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:47:45 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

# refuses to apply his great math talents explaining the
# eyewitness reports of death by HCN in 10-15 minutes and
# by CO in 15-20 minutes.
#
# Why does he refuse to do this?  

I explained it, dreck. A high concentration of CO can
kill people in the same duration of time a lower
concentration of HCN will kill them.

Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

We've been through this. Mike Stein explained this to
you a few times.

Why are you so stupid?


-Danny Keren.




-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 16:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 56922 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u7v5l$f7d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <320c8ca2.563475@news.pacificnet.net>  <320e0f7b.5312785@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:00:53 GMT
Lines: 50

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The only place I saw mention of "bottled gas" was at Majdanek.
# The document mentions a few bottles. Maybe you can show some
# of your pet testimony to show where it says bottled gas was
# used first someplace, as your personal testimony implies. 

Oberhauser's testimony about Belzec and Brack's testimony
about the Euthanasia gas chambers.

I posted these quite a few times during the past two
years. It seems you "revisionist scholars" don't even bother
to read all the testimonies you claim are untrue. Why
am I not surprised?

# But we were talking about the cost effectiveness of
# it compared to CO from engines.

Mark Van-Alstine posted the price for Zyklon-B. Look at
his article again before making an idiot out of yourself.

You have demonstrated here, a few times, that you cannot
handle basic arithmetic. You tried to make calculations,
and, two times, you were off by a factor of 500 or so.
Maybe this is your problem?

# Did you forget the other methods? Getting on the roofs and
# opening the hatch, pulling up the wire cage, putting on the 
# gas masks, opening the cans, pouring them in, lowering the 
# cage, closing the hatch?

Getting out of bed, walking to the bathroom, opening the
tap, washing the face, stretching the hand, picking up
the towel, wiping the face, stretching out the hand,
putting towel back in place, stretching out the hand,
picking up the toothbrush...

I mean, Tom, can you *really* be that stupid? It's sad to
read this, it's really sad. Have mercy on us will you?


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 16:35:55 PDT 1996
Article: 56935 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uicps$jqg@news.iglobal.net> <4ulc5p$ir0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:26:51 GMT
Lines: 21

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

[About Reitlinger]

# and gave overall death totals for the Final Solution (as he
# termed it) of between 2 and 4 million, based on his conclusion
# that Soviet pop stats were inaccurate.

I read the book, and I'm quite sure his lower bound was
4.2 million, which, while lower than what every other
historian claims, is by no means "between 2 and 4 million".


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 16:35:56 PDT 1996
Article: 56936 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Tom Moran Does His Little Goebbels Schtick
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:12:02 GMT
Lines: 29



 From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Apr 13 16:26:10 EDT 1996
 Article: 81079 of alt.revisionism
 Xref: world alt.revisionism:81079 
 From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
 Subject: Hebrew Huggems
 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 14:26:28 GMT
 Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
 Lines: 7
 NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-17.pacificnet.net
 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


        Keep an eye out for these Hebrew characteristics.
Hebrews have a problem with controlling their body language. 
They either jam their hands deep into their pockets or fold their arms
in front of them in a self hugging stance, to keep their hands from
flailing about. They also shuffle in place.
        Ah yes the huggems, the Larry King syndrome.




-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 17:09:53 PDT 1996
Article: 56946 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!news.lava.net!news.pixi.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:41:49 GMT
Lines: 25

schwartz@infinet.com writes:

# I do NOT believe your father was harassed. I believe he was
# asked a simple question on the telephone.

Nobody harassed the dreck's father. This has as much
reliability as the story of the dreck's daughter. Didn't
he state that if someone asks for her number than he
would be "ready for the grave", (Message-Id:   
<4uf0ea$kno@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>), and later said that
he has no daughter (<4uk7dg$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>)?

And he expects us to believe him?


-Danny Keren.




-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:31 PDT 1996
Article: 56967 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Provide the "records," Mr. Hardy!
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ula04$ekg@nizkor. <8c7cc$9203.16@news.comet.net> <8c7cc$e182a.1b0@news.comet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:31:47 GMT
Lines: 47
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82605 alt.revisionism:56967 talk.politics.european-union:5505

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:

# Camp           Jews           Poles
# Auschwitz    205,000        137,000

Perhaps you'll explain where you dug these figures from.

What's especially fascinating here, is that a report
written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Franke-Gricksch for SS-Col. 
von Herff and Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, after inspection 
of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 1943, mentions 500,000 
Jewish victims in the camp (see: "Hitler and the Final 
Solution" - Prof. G. Fleming, University of California 
Press, 1984, p. 142-143).

Are you suggesting the SS had regrets and began bringing
these Jewish victims back to life, to arrive at a figure
of 205,000 at the war's end? This will be yet another
astounding breakthrough in the field of "Holocaust
revisionism". This is even better than Kreiberg's stuff.

# Please understand my point.  

I'm really trying, but I can't understand how the number
of total deaths decreased from 1943 to 1945.

# I am not challenging 6,000,000 Jews,
# I am pointing out the disparity between the attention
# given one group of 6,000,000 and a second groups of 500,000, 
# while virtually ignoring two other groups of 5,000,000
# and 2,000,000.

I always hear this claim, and it's always coming from
Nazis and Nazi-apologists. Are you a Nazi or a Nazi-
apologist? If not, explain what exactly your problem is.

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.







From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:32 PDT 1996
Article: 56971 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uhi8c$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4un03j$9vn@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:22:50 GMT
Lines: 61

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Now I do not understand you.  There are _several_ aerial 
# photographs of Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.  All of 
# these show the Kremas as clearly outlined.

Now, what does that have to do with my speculation that
contrast stretching was applied to the August 1944 photo,
I really don't know. Perhaps you don't know what contrast
stretching is - no sweat, ask and I'll explain.

# I have only studied in detail one of the several 
# photographs.  But the argument for strong blurring 
# doesn't explain why the shadow of the chimney is 
# quite distinct.

Use any viewer that can tell you the gray levels of
individual pixels (I'm using xv on a workstation, but
every decent viewer can do this). Look at cross-sections
passing through bright and dark areas (say, the shadow
of the Krema and bright area next to it, or the dark
patches on the roof and the bright roof). You'll see
that the transition from bright to dark areas is
rather gradual. For instance, for one of the dark spots
we have the following gray level sequence (all y
coordinates are 291):

Pixel    Gray Level
-----    ----------
316        147
317        130
318        114
319        105
320        110
321        111
322        119
323        137
324        158
325        175


This indicates a strong blur. Naturally, it has a larger
affect on the apparent size of small objects (such as the 
covers on the vents) than large objects (Krema's shadow).

This is what's causing you to err in estimating the
true size of the covers.


-Danny Keren.






-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 12 20:56:33 PDT 1996
Article: 56980 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About My Articles (Re: A revisionist FA
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uld7l$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4umt5r$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:18:51 GMT
Lines: 28

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# My apologies.  

Apology rejected. You continuously and deliberately 
lie and quote me as saying things I've never said.

# I was unaware that you agreed that the cremation time
# for an average body is 1.5-2.0 hours as a minimum.

Here's another example. I never said this.

There's no use to continue. You apologize for lying,
and you lie again in the next line. Do you understand
why I consider you to be a lying piece of dreck? It
is telling to see that you're continuing to do your
best to justify this title.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:03 PDT 1996
Article: 57015 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4ujfcl$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4umktd$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:45:23 GMT
Lines: 44

The dreck writes:

# Post them.

Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
------------------------------------------------------------------
During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp.
The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers,
where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and
later burned.

About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There
were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was
called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name...
These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas
chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt
was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In
my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver...

All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate,
about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into
the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the
Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the
Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts...

The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt
stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine
room opened the gas chambers from the other side.




-Danny Keren.




-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:04 PDT 1996
Article: 57019 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!peacenjoy.mikom.csir.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uegil$cra@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 18:51:52 GMT
Lines: 34

Rudolph himself seems to agree this graph isn't worth
much; he apparently reconstructed it from *one* data
point. He chose an exponential function because, so
he said, it's the "fastest decreasing mathematical
function", which must be one of the stupidest things
I heard in my life.

The graph presented here cannot be true, as it contradicts
the much more accurate information from the Peters-Rasch
paper: in far lower temperatures, there was no residue
detected in the Zyklon after an hour, or at most two.

It also contradicts the information in Dr. Peter's book
that the large part evaporates in half-an-hour.

The simplest explanation is that we're talking about
two different products: one manufactured today vs.
the wartime Zyklon. Other possibility is that Rudolph
is lying through his teeth, as he did when misquoting
Dr. Peters' book.

All that being said: this is a matter not of crucial
importance. Even if the graph was indeed as Rudolph
claims it to be, there would be no problems with
using it to kill people in the Auschwitz gas chambers.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:05 PDT 1996
Article: 57025 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <320e0f94.5338270@news.pacificnet.net>  <320f3257.330154@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 19:07:40 GMT
Lines: 28

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Not all the ovens were documented, this is only an
# unfounded figure 

52 cremation furnaces. No "revisionist scholar" questions
these figures.

# and not all would be used for cremating humans.

Tell us, zeide: what were the cremation furnaces intended
for, then?

These people are just unbelievable. Now he's telling us
that the cremation furnaces weren't used to cremate
corpses. 


-Danny Keren.




-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:05 PDT 1996
Article: 57058 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!news.walltech.com!news.ecis.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com>  <4umv8b$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:41:55 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Danny boy, the pipes are callin you.  Throwing in
# children, a terrible cry.  

Is this "physically impossible"?

# Heat given off when there is no source of heat.

In winter, when you crowd a large number of people into
a small room, are you saying that this room will not
be considerably hotter than the surrounding?

# How can I thank you for another example of holohuggers 
# idiocy?  I never can.  

How can I thank you for proving, yet again, that 
Nazi apologists are as dumb as they go?

Want to go back to the SS-men not being able to carry
4 Kg of Zyklon up the ladder? As you claimed? As it would
be "too heavy"?

You're a stupid piece of dreck. Didn't I tell you
this already?


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:06 PDT 1996
Article: 57060 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4umddo$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 05:49:16 GMT
Lines: 40
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2577 alt.revisionism:57060 alt.conspiracy:77504 alt.politics.white-power:39263

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# As I said, it is only fifty years.  I also said the
# thousands of tons of bone fragments were not found
# in 1945.  I made the point that no one looked for them.  

As was pointed out here numerous times, large amounts
of human remains were found in some of the camps, such
as Treblinka and Maidanek.

Not to mention the corpses found in camps such as Belsen.
The British had to use bulldozers to bury them; there
were simply too many.

But you know this.

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images/nordhausen.jpg

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images/Maidan02.jpg

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/images/Dachau01.jpg


# So where are you going with all of this?  

You tell us.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:07 PDT 1996
Article: 57070 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!en.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ujjeu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4umeu1$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:22:06 GMT
Lines: 47

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# So how do you tell the true from the false testimony?  

How do you tell the testimonies about the puddles of melted
human flesh in Dresden from the correct testimonies?

# I have a very successful test of true from false.  If they 
# mention only gassing it is true.  If they go into any detail 
# about gassing it is false.  And that is because not one 
# testimony that goes into any detail about gassing contains 
# nonsense.  

Prove it. Give examples.

# And Wiesel was only 14 yet he was given the grand tour of all the
# gassing camps in Europe and miraculously avoided being gassed in all
# of them.  He is hardly less incredible in his story.  He just doesn't
# know why he was not gassed. 

"All the gassing camps"? What garbage.

You hear only the survivors. True, most of them were
lucky. The rest aren't here to speak.

# And of course we have already been told in the Anne Frank story that
# she would have been gassed if she were younger.  Yet Wiesel was
# younger in all but A-B so he should have been gassed based upon age.

This was the end of the war. Some people were lucky. Some
survived. What the hell is your point?

# But how do you explain ALL the "testimonies" being false
# in most aspects?

I don't have to explain it, because it's not true.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 08:05:08 PDT 1996
Article: 57093 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ulnfr$n26@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:15:02 GMT
Lines: 58

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

It would be *extremely* helpful if you use a standard
piece of software which puts a ">" before the text 
you're replying to.

# E606:  Once more you are omitting the fact that the death
# rate during this period was seriously aggravated by the
# typhus epidemic of that summer. 

It continued afterwards. But this is a diversion. WHY were
they having all these epidemics?

Because they were treated like animals. That's why. You
know that.

# Moreover, you are not referencing the fact that this
# death rate elicited a command from Himmler that it be
# lowered, not for humanitarian purposes,
# mind you, but explicitly due to economic considerations.

This is true. But it doesn't change the number of those
who died.

# E606:  As to why this affects the KZ population rather
# than Allied POW's, my guess is that is has something to
# do with the admixture of East Europeans (Soviets, Poles)
# who came from the region where typhus and related diseases
# were chronic.

We're talking 10 PERCENT DYING EVERY MONTH. And this is
for WORK CAMPS. Strong men, who were selected and kept
because they could work.

Are you suggesting that such a death rate existed in
Poland? Or the USSR? Even after the Nazis robbed them of
their food supplies?

# E606:  I for one don't think autopsy reports are relevant.  
# The real issue that is going on here is the extent to which 
# the mounds of corpses found at Belsen at the end of the war 
# were the result of deliberate starvation.

There is no other explanation. Don't start again with the
water pump breaking down. Please. Even Kramer said he
just couldn't get food because the Whermacht wouldn't
spare any. 

Nor water. "Sub-humans" were not worth wasting water on,
apparently.

Typhus may have been a factor, but - again - starvation
was, by far, the major factor.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 09:53:12 PDT 1996
Article: 82605 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,talk.politics.european-union
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Provide the "records," Mr. Hardy!
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ula04$ekg@nizkor. <8c7cc$9203.16@news.comet.net> <8c7cc$e182a.1b0@news.comet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 22:31:47 GMT
Lines: 47
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:82605 alt.revisionism:56967 talk.politics.european-union:5505

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) writes:

# Camp           Jews           Poles
# Auschwitz    205,000        137,000

Perhaps you'll explain where you dug these figures from.

What's especially fascinating here, is that a report
written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Franke-Gricksch for SS-Col. 
von Herff and Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, after inspection 
of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 1943, mentions 500,000 
Jewish victims in the camp (see: "Hitler and the Final 
Solution" - Prof. G. Fleming, University of California 
Press, 1984, p. 142-143).

Are you suggesting the SS had regrets and began bringing
these Jewish victims back to life, to arrive at a figure
of 205,000 at the war's end? This will be yet another
astounding breakthrough in the field of "Holocaust
revisionism". This is even better than Kreiberg's stuff.

# Please understand my point.  

I'm really trying, but I can't understand how the number
of total deaths decreased from 1943 to 1945.

# I am not challenging 6,000,000 Jews,
# I am pointing out the disparity between the attention
# given one group of 6,000,000 and a second groups of 500,000, 
# while virtually ignoring two other groups of 5,000,000
# and 2,000,000.

I always hear this claim, and it's always coming from
Nazis and Nazi-apologists. Are you a Nazi or a Nazi-
apologist? If not, explain what exactly your problem is.

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.







From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 09:53:15 PDT 1996
Article: 82608 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Evil Nature of German Legislation
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: 
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 21:59:58 GMT
Lines: 38

I have read some of Rudolph's stuff. It's about as 
stupid as Leuchter's.

As I recall, he writes that the victims inside the gas
chambers could catch the Zyklon pellets and throw
them back at the SS-men outside (!!). 

Imagine that. Someone opens a trapdoor, dumps in
these pellets (which very quickly release a highly
lethal cyanide gas), and immediately closes the
trap door. And, in the second or two while this is
happening, the victims, allegedly, understand what
is going on, capture these small pellets (which 
keep releasing this highly lethal gas), and throw
them out before the trapdoor is shut.

I mean, Kreiberg, if you believe this crap, it's no
wonder you believed that corpses can explode like
napalm bombs if the furnace gets too hot.

You're such a sorry-assed bunch of damned idiots...

Doesn't Rudolph have an e-mail? Get the stupid 
clown on the net and let's debate.

# We at CODOH hope that freedom will never be extinguished.

CODOH. An organization run by a 70-year-old former
construction worker and a 26-year-old highschool
dropout. No offense towards construction workers
intended... most of them are far smarter than
Bradley Smith.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 09:53:16 PDT 1996
Article: 82646 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: de.soc.politik,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ingrids Liste
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f7dcd6.10604706@news.europeonline.com> <4tntk9$kfv@fstgal00.tu-graz.ac.at>  <320fc10a.13919917@news.crosslink.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 02:11:47 GMT
Lines: 15

HaKa@infreiheit.net (Horst Kleinsorg) writes:

# Das hier sooft gepriesene sogenannte  Nizkor Archiv
# durchforstet saemtliche Newsgruppen nach potentiellen  
# Kritikern des Holocausts und legt ueber jede kritische 
# Person ein Dossier an. Was ist wohl der Grund dafuer?

"Archive this, Dano!"  :-)

(With credit to "Hawaii-5-0", of course).


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 11:40:44 PDT 1996
Article: 57108 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u1duj$1n0@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <320b3e5d.498224@news.pacificnet.net> <4uggos$mvb@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 06:56:32 GMT
Lines: 43

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But this way it lets them brag about the number of hits
# without having to reveal what generates them.  

The material is there. It's in German, true, but the
important parts have been translated. The rest will be
translated too. 

If you two whiny slobs are so interested in the truth,
try and get the rest translated, in the meanwhile. Some
of us have jobs ya know, and there's only a limited
time we can dedicate to this.

You know very well that this material, and the Topf patent,
buries practically every claim the "revisionists" have made.
So all you can do is whine about the size of the characters
or whatever.

# And if it is like the Degesh Publication that this same
# person refused to post for so long, 

Who refused to post? This man is insane.

# the reason is that that translation goes more
# against he chosen beliefs than favors them.  

So post the translation. I have no idea what you're
babbling about.

# Server Error

It's working now, anyway. Score a big one for the Giwer. Nizkor
was down for an hour or two. Big news for "revisionists".


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 14:05:35 PDT 1996
Article: 130010 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 03:54:31 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 23:12:20 PDT 1996
Article: 57161 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ueopt$lf3@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.co <4uok4i$2g7@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:53:17 GMT
Lines: 29
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2595 alt.revisionism:57161 alt.conspiracy:77663 alt.politics.white-power:39358 soc.culture.jewish:67989 talk.politics.guns:298529 talk.politics.libertarian:111486 talk.abortion:181513 alt.christnet:91518

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

june25@ix.netcom.com(Thomas Ander) writes:

# We need much more evidence to prove the holocaust. 

Have you studied all the existing evidence?

Let me make an educated guess: you have no idea in
the world what you're talking about, right? If not,
do prove me wrong.

# I'm yet to read any credible evidence supporting this
# alleged holocaust. 

I am always amazed by such declarations. Why not carry
it further?

 "We need much more evidence to prove the Second World War. 
I'm yet to read any credible evidence supporting this
alleged Second World War".

You realize, of course, that you sound like, and make
as much sense as, someone making the statement above?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 23:12:20 PDT 1996
Article: 57167 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Wir scheissen auf die Freiheit der Judenrepublik
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uil7o$gbi@epimetheus.algonet.se> <320D09E3.69F4@kaiwan.com> <320fd330.6265239@news.inetport.com> <321012C5.69A8@kaiwan.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 19:19:36 GMT
Lines: 30

Greg Raven  writes:

# There are no plans or orders to exterminate Jews.

Still with this old rubbish. This Raven person never 
tires, and has no problems with proving, again and again
and again, what a boring liar he is.

A document stating that Jews "unfit for work", will
be killed with poison gas (Wetzle's letter to Lohse).

A report from Himmler, stating that over 363,000 Jews
have been executed during four months in 1942.

Jager's report, stating that his unit alone killed 
over 130,000 Jews, mostly women and children, during a 
five month period in 1941.

Numerous statements and documents by Nazi leaders - Hitler,
Goebbels, Himmler, Frank - that the Jews will be 
murdered.

Let's start with these. Do you think there's a *slight*
chance that these *may* suggest that there was an
extermination program?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 13 23:12:21 PDT 1996
Article: 57175 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4umeu1$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <4upjgc$liv@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:31:27 GMT
Lines: 45

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## Prove it. Give examples.

# I have, many times, and you have commented upon them.  

Correction: you *think* (er, ah) that you have done this.

For the very large majority of the testimonies, you
have no indication whatsoever they are incorrect. You
size upon one or two, and misrepresent what they say,
in order to make them appear inaccurate.

Your claims are so idiotic that I find it hard to
believe even you really accept them. For instance,
rejecting testimonies because they say that people
screamed in the gas chambers or while they were being
pushed into them. You claim this is impossible. That
people won't scream with fear, or pain, in such a 
situation.

Who do you think you're fooling? Do you really think
a normal human being would look at what you write and
take you seriously? That he/she would take you to be
anything but a stupid, sadistic Nazi apologist?

# Did you really miss the "gelatinous masses of flesh and
# clothing" detail.  You can only play this game so many times.  

As you know well, this description has *nothing* do do with
the fact that the people were killed by gas, but with the fact
that their corpses were left in this particular gas chamber 
(in Block 11) for days, and began to decompose. You are, once 
again, intentionally lying by making it appear as if the witness 
said this happened because of the gas, although he never said
this.

There's one testimony which, most probably, is totally
false; but this is one testimony, given by a person who
was 11-years-old when the war ended.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 08:50:29 PDT 1996
Article: 57208 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ulngl$n2q@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:04:46 GMT
Lines: 13

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)

## Your point being?

# E606:  This is truly remarkable post.

Thank you.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 08:50:30 PDT 1996
Article: 57232 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <32108af7.497785@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:25:45 GMT
Lines: 58

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The topic is Zyklon B. Zyklon B in 1943 and 1945. 

So far so good.

# The stuff that was designed for slower release. 

No it was not.

# The stuff that had a release rate of somewhere around 100% in 
# 1 1/2 and 2 hours. 

This is better than your "perhaps months" estimate of the past.

# Using the optional Holocaust numbers, the amount left
# over would be 92.5%.

You prove, one again, that you cannot handle basic arithmetic.

# As I recall your the one who kept asking "What floor?" 
# would the flues run under from the alleged ovens at the 
# center of a extermination building to the chimney out side.

So, are you claiming the flues ran under the floor? If
so, what floor?

# Your the one, a "PhD", 

Don't project your inferiority complex on me. The fact that
I happen to have a Ph.D seems to cause great problems to
you and Giwer. There are, BTW, a few other Ph.D's or Ph.D
candidates regularly posting to this group. Some in fields
more related to the discussions in this group than mine
(chemistry, for instance).

# that resorts to the baby talk. Your the one that would be 
# reluctant to show any of your postings to any of
# your collegues. Post their names and we'll get in touch
# and ask them to participate.

I have no idea what you're talking about. What colleagues? In
my areas of research? Why would they necessarily be interested
in reading this newsgroup? What do you mean by "your the one 
that would be reluctant to show any of your postings to any of
your collegues"? You're crazy, Tom.

Tom: it is not *my* fault that you two are losers, 
two over-the-hill losers who are frustrated and hateful 
because their lives have been a failure. You can say 
what you want about me, but it ain't my fault.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 08:50:30 PDT 1996
Article: 57233 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Extraordinary Absence
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32109570.3178949@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 22:31:36 GMT
Lines: 17

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# The most ridiculous testimony is one given by a Polish
# prisoner that claims:

[Description of the well-known mass shooting in Maidanek]

Why, exactly, do you consider this to be "ridiculous"?

Don't tell me...

It's the old "Because! I! Say! So!", right?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 08:50:31 PDT 1996
Article: 57235 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4ueu6p$kcd@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 19:06:42 GMT
Lines: 27

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:

## the ventilation grills of Krema III were tested in
## 1945 and cyanide compounds were discovered on them.

# It is interesting that you felt compelled to make that up.  

I didn't make it up. I am not a worthless liar like you.

# Perhaps you can point to Nizkor or any other site that
# supports it?  

It's reported in Pressac's book, with, as I recall, a
photograph of the ventilation grills. I don't have the
book handy; perhaps someone can check. If not, I will
post the page number when I return home, in about 3 weeks.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 11:16:24 PDT 1996
Article: 82781 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: de.soc.politik,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ingrids Liste
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31f7dcd6.10604706@news.europeonline.com>  <320fc10a.13919917@news.crosslink.net> <4upcmr$k87@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 20:31:17 GMT
Lines: 5

For sure, "Ingrid's List" has nothing to do with "Schindler's List"...


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 12:16:17 PDT 1996
Article: 57269 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About My Articles (Re: A revisionist FA
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uld7l$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <320f4566.5209526@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 20:41:35 GMT
Lines: 25

No, little Tommy. My description of Giwer as a liar is 
perfectly justified: he has, very often, quoted me as
posting things I have never posted.

This is lying. Even you should be able to understand this.

It is like your forgery of Prufer's testimony: you added
to it Q&A's of your invention, while not saying so.

This is also called lying.

Giwer is a liar.

You are a liar.

It's really simple.

And you are not even smart liars; you post lies which are
very easy to expose.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 12:16:18 PDT 1996
Article: 57288 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com> <4umv8b$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4us72p$gfb@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 15:58:47 GMT
Lines: 34

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Want to go back to the SS-men not being able to carry
## 4 Kg of Zyklon up the ladder? As you claimed? As it would
## be "too heavy"?

# Quite true, Jewboy.
#
# Beyond that, I made no such claim about being too heave
# but the amount is at least 6 kg for each of the two, to
# match the time frame required.  

Far less than 6 Kg per SS-man was needed; the large gas
chambers had four vents. So, even if your total of 12 Kg
was true (and it's not), that would be 3 Kg for each.

But, just for the hell of it, are you suggesting that
a man cannot climb a ladder whiles carrying a six Kg can?

# "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms,

Yes, keep posting that, with the mention of Wirth carefully
edited out. 


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 12:16:18 PDT 1996
Article: 57298 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Leuchter?  Again? WAS [Fwd: Nazi gas chambers]
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D8A7C.6C7D@kaiwan.com> <4umbc7$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4umj0j$gc8@access5.digex.net> <4us7ma$gfb@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:54:25 GMT
Lines: 14

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But your claim has produced and "aleph sub 1" order 
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^
# of impossibility.

Whoa! I'm impressed. Want to define this notion for
us, just so I'll know we're thinking of the same thing?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 12:16:19 PDT 1996
Article: 57302 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Keren, the latter day Einstein
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4umujo$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4us8g4$gfb@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:57:32 GMT
Lines: 16

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

## Probably because you're a lying troll and Dr. Keren has
## better things to do with his time.

# If he had better things to do with his time he would not
# be here.

I'm only here to make friends.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 14 17:51:24 PDT 1996
Article: 57368 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Lies
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4upi1m$liv@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 21:18:21 GMT
Lines: 19
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2620 alt.revisionism:57368 alt.conspiracy:77942 alt.politics.white-power:39483 soc.culture.jewish:68211

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

# And explains why Giwer is so hate-filled.  Guess he never
# had any love in his life.

When Giwer jokes about a photograph showing women being
shot to death, and when he says it was "good to hear" that 
his own wife died, you have to assume that he had a lot of 
hate in his life.

All this Holocaust-denial is a hate trip for him. Don't 
think that he *really* believe there was no Holocaust. He's
just looking for a way in which, so he hopes, he can
hurt people to the max. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 13:37:18 PDT 1996
Article: 57542 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!hole.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uei1p$blq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ufhbh$cmc@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 01:09:21 GMT
Lines: 32

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

# Finally, we have the fact that no holes exist either in these
# locations or the center line in the still existing (though 
# broken) roof of the Krema. 

What is your evidence for this? Pressac's book contains
a photograph of a rather neat, square hole in the Krema's
roof.

# Nor is there any trace of the masonry for the 
# *little chimneys*.

I thought they were simply put around the openings; that
would be good enough, with the earth around making 
for support. The sealing itself was done by the wiremesh
device. I don't see any necessity for masonry to hold
the little chimneys in place.

Re the size, you're probably overestimating the height
by a large factor. I think it's best to compare the height
of the chimneys to the height of the Krema's wall, for
instance; this gives a more realistic estimate.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 13:37:19 PDT 1996
Article: 57568 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <838484554snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <839676404snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 21:27:30 GMT
Lines: 27

Alexander Baron  writes:

# And as I have consistently denounced the Protocols of
# Zion as a fake I am probably in agreement with Organised
# Jewry. Ther is no other clear reason to explain what I
# am doing.

Very good. Now explain why the death rate in the "work camps"
was 10 percent per month during, for example, July, August,
and September 1942, long before the Allies have supposedly
destroyed Germany's infrastructure and caused all these
people to die in 1945.

Explain why not one SS-man or woman starved in the camps.
Explain why all the civilians in the vicinity of the
camps, who were brought by the Allies to witness the
horrors, look very well-dressed and well-fed.

Try to do better than posting some lame joke this time.


-Danny Keren.

-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 15:49:27 PDT 1996
Article: 57589 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jews Run Everything
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uutoa$fab@news.ios.com> <4uvjec$pg5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:56:32 GMT
Lines: 22

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
# Ira  wrote:

## Hil\tler was an ass who got his ass kicked. We Jews run 
## everything,because you goyim are to fucking stupid too. God
## chose us as his people and the rest as beasts. 

Can someone checks this? Is there really such a domain
as "Israel.com", or this another nazi-boy pretending to
be a Jew? We've seen this before.

# it's always refreshing on those rare occasions when a Jew
# drops his mask and reveal his true outlook and feelings.  

Not true. If Matt Giwer, for instance, converts to Judaism,
I'll still continue to claim that he's the biggest imbecile
I saw in my life.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 18:57:03 PDT 1996
Article: 57595 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32132b5f.140717@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:00:40 GMT
Lines: 35

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Six million Jews killed?
#
# If we could line up that many people in rows, toe to 
# heal and ten across, the whole line would be about a 
  ^^^^
Is this your "Achilles heal" again? You're a riot, Tommy.

# hundred miles long.

# If you started at one end in a car and drove along side
# these ten rows at 60 miles an hour, it would take you about
# an hour and a half before you got to the other end.
#
# Think about that the next time you take a spin.

And also think about the fact that Nazi Germany killed
an even larger number of armed Soviet soldiers. And think
of how more difficult it is to kill one trained, armed
soldier than to kill one unarmed, untrained civilian,
more so a woman or a child.

And that Stalin is alleged to have killed at least that
number of Soviet citizens. Not to mention Mao.

I guess Moran just proved WW2 never happened, nor did
Stalin's and Mao's massacres. Heck, some of us have been saying 
that all along. I always knew "revisionism" will go way
beyond the Holocaust...


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 18:57:04 PDT 1996
Article: 57596 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Drunk again WAS Re: to the anti-gassing lurkers
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uusoe$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4uvnkq$l17@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:07:53 GMT
Lines: 13

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

# There are many of is.  

Like "Bob Hunt", AND "agathist", AND "Dbtgthomas",
AND "Dvdthomas"...

(To new readers: these are all aliases of the
same "revisionist scholar").


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 18:57:05 PDT 1996
Article: 57597 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Past Life Regression???? Yikes! WASRe: ACHTUNG: "HOLOCAUST" LIES!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uudnn$cko@light.lightlink.com> <4uvnej$6nf@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:14:18 GMT
Lines: 14

[A "revisionist" post, of someone claiming to have been an
 SS officer in his previous life and testifying to the
 events of the time from this experience]

Folks: after reading "revisionist" stuff for five years now,
I am not even sure if this is a joke.

Now all we need is Friedrich Berg coming back and telling
us of his diesel experiments!!


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 15 18:57:05 PDT 1996
Article: 57619 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!news.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>  
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 01:36:40 GMT
Lines: 94
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:57619 soc.culture.german:82936

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# How do you know how much gas there would be left. 

And how do you know? 

# If the bodies fell over the still unevaporated HCN there
# could be quite a bit left.

"Quite a bit"? This would not have been a factor in
the Krema II and III gas chambers, as the Zyklon was
taken out via the wiremesh devices. In the other Kremas,
hosing down the gas chambers helped to neutralize the 
remaining Zyklon; and anyway, most of the HCN would have
evaporated during the gassing and the ventilation
period.

If Zyklon was so hard to use and dangerous, how come
it was so commonly used for fumigation?

# I do not exclude the possibility that some people
# may have been killed in this manner. It is only the
# number and the procedure I question.

Given the size of the two large gas chambers (210 m^2),
and the power of the ventilation systems they had, how
many people do you think it would have been possible to kill
in them during, say, 24 hours? Show us your calculations.

# It is still disputed whether there were a ventilation
# systems in the alleged gaschambers.

It is not "disputed". Even the "revisionists" agree there
was a ventilation system in Kremas II & III. It's easy
to locate its remains, such as the openings for fresh
air, its supports on the ceiling, and its grills; moreover
it is very well documented.

# If there were ventillation systems that were able to 
# rapidly remove all the gas, where to would it be led out? 
# Just out into the open air in the camp area or what? 

Yes, exactly. Your point is moot, because the delousing
chambers were also in the camp and were also ventilated
into the camp area. Moreover, since there are cyanide
compounds in the gas chambers, its obvious HCN was used
in them; this is a proof that there was no particular
problems in ventilating the HCN out. If what you're saying
was true, you'd have people dropping dead after each
delousing operation!

# Do you by the way remember the accident in Bhopal in India
# where humans and animals were killed by poisonous gas 
# several kilometers from the chemical plant from where it
# has been released?

Interesting point. However:

1) It is moot due to the reason mentioned above.

2) I can think of a very simple example in which large
   volumes of poison gas are released into the air, right
   where people are standing, and nothing happens to them.
   I'm talking, of course, about cars. Car engines
   (before the catalytic converters) released highly 
   lethal gas, right? If you're in a closed chamber filled
   with the exhaust of such an engine, you'll die pretty
   fast, right? However, look at a policeman directing
   the traffic; he stands right there, between numerous
   cars, all of them releasing this highly toxic gas, and
   nothing happens to him, right?

   Of course, car exhaust and HCN are different; but, again,
   we know that HCN was routinely releases into the air
   and nothing happened to the people nearby.

   It's a question of concentration. There are toxic gases 
   that will kill very quickly in a closed chamber, but would
   be relatively harmless when released into the open air. 
   Nerve gases may be different, which may be one reason they 
   were not used in the death camps; informative comments are
   welcome (I recall Keith Morrison posted on this).

# 12. The Airing should continue for at least 20 hours.

I repeat my question: are you suggesting that after people
were killed with HCN inside gas chambers in US prisons, they
remained strapped to the chair for 20 hours?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 07:51:42 PDT 1996
Article: 57659 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Hollohuggers suck!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uu45q$afo@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:25:23 GMT
Lines: 38

john819194@aol.com (John819194) writes:

# They have laws that throw you in jail for expressing
# doubt about the Holocaust!  

That's the problem of the German Govt. No one here, to
the best of my knowledge, supports these laws.

# When these stories were presented at a kangaroo court
# at Nuremberg?

I have seen no evidence nor rational reason for labeling
the Nuremberg and other courts as a "kangaroo court". If
you have such evidence, present it.

# In which the defeated were being tried by the victors?

Well, nazi-boy, most of the trials in which SS-men from
the death camps testified were actually run by the German
legal system.

# And whose primary source of evidence is eyewitness
# testimony?

More rubbish. There's plenty of physical and documentary
evidence.

# You can shove it up your ass.  
#
# I piss your holocaust.   (Pissing right now..)

You are, indeed, a rather revolting little nazi-boy. Aren't
there newsgroups for nasty little nazi-boys like you?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 07:51:44 PDT 1996
Article: 57665 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: to summarize
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uuu8t$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:48:21 GMT
Lines: 23

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# In the last three months the truth seekers (aka revionsits)
# have beaten the crap out of the holohuggers.  

With claims such as the following?

1) Belsen camp was really in Poland, not in Germany.

2) Documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
   in the Birkenau crematoriums don't count, as they were 
   really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS-men who 
   authored them.

These are your claims.

Do you doubt that a rational person reading such claims
will conclude that you are mentally retarded?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 07:51:45 PDT 1996
Article: 57692 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <838484554snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>   <4ujivn$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 20:11:05 GMT
Lines: 35

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# If you have an actual, recorded death rate in the camps for
# that time frame then you are working from a list of recorded
# admissions and recorded deaths.  

The figures are from Pohl's letter to Himmler. I don't recall
he gives the exact reason for death, certainly not for
every individual.

It is not for me to explain why they died. It is for Nazi
apologists to explain how come there was a death rate of
10 percent per month (!!) during, for instance, July-September
1942, in the "work camps", while the death rate during the
whole war, for Allied POW's, was about 3 percent.

Now, that you have nothing more to say, you'll start demanding
to see an autopsy for each and every victim, and to demand
forensic evidence that it was really the Nazis who were
guilty for his/her death. But then again, one can also demand
an autopsy for everyone who died in Dresden, and a forensic
proof that it was indeed the alleged Allied bombs who killed
him/her. You're making about as much sense.

You're desperate. I can understand that. But do try not to
lose the little sanity which you may still have.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.

-Lu Xun.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 07:51:46 PDT 1996
Article: 57714 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,mn.politics,alt.anything,alt.skinheads,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.polit
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Ernst Zundel, UFO Man (Re: Sign up for the WORLD famous 
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com> <4uib2v$fr1@molokini.conterra.com> <4unk21$ouq@infor <4uv1c6$gos@news.ios.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:03:49 GMT
Lines: 22
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.canada:96770 alt.skinheads:34832 alt.society.conservatism:49681 alt.politics.usa.constitution:81914 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27344 alt.revisionism:57714 alt.politics.white-power:39630 soc.culture.usa:90758 alt.conspiracy:78298 talk.politics.misc:431643

So, Ingrid, anything new with Zundel's UFO's?

Anyone who wants a good laugh can look at the web pages
in which Zundel's "UFO research" is documented.

This "leading Holocaust revisionist" claims that the Nazi
leadership built "secret UFO's", and used them to fly
into the inner earth, via holes in the poles. He even
suggested to organize an expedition, to search for them,
and asked for donations to fund it!

I'm NOT joking. The nut even claimed to HAVE MET THE          
GERMAN SCIENTISTS WHO BUILT THESE "UFO's" (!!).

Thanks to the wonders of WWW, this exciting stuff
is now available for all the world to see...

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/z/zundel.ernst/flying-saucers


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 07:51:47 PDT 1996
Article: 57716 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Announcing the Giwer Diesel FAQ
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 03:40:35 GMT
Lines: 56

Yet again, our 163-IQ'ed "leading revisionist", Matt Giwer,
proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.

# There is none from a diesel engine.  Even you
# should know that.  

"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).

## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

# Not a diesel.  

Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong 
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is 
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios 
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the 
exhaust.

Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.

Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about. The same applies to Giwer.

The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 11:12:09 PDT 1996
Article: 57737 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <32133535.2658370@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:32:48 GMT
Lines: 15

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Yet, if we had ten more expert statements on the subject,
# how many would differ to any great degree from Legace's?

How many would claim that corpses might explode like a
napalm bomb, and burn down the whole crematory building,
if inserted to a furnace which is too hot?

This is what "revisionist scholar" Legace said.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 13:30:48 PDT 1996
Article: 57757 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!news.lava.net!news.pixi.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.lanminds.com!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nizkor's got the patent - goofy style
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3205f9cd.536946@news.pacificnet.net> <320fd869.115127593@news.txdirect.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:43:51 GMT
Lines: 23

hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
# tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

## Its in German. Its a scan. It takes that long to bring 
## up. It comes on the screen all cocked eyed - cattywompus like.

# Mr. Moran is surely still using his old Osborne to log on
# to the newsgroups

Not to mention that little Tommy's screen is covered with
all these correction fluid stains. Spelling is, after all,
one of his Achilles HEALS.  :-)


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 13:30:49 PDT 1996
Article: 57762 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.censorship,alt.censorship.canada.dumb,alt.online-service.compuserve,uk.politics,soc.culture.german,alt.sex,alt.sex.wizards,soc.culture.netherlands,misc.kids,misc.immigration
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jews Run Everything
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <224328Z30071996@anon.penet.fi>  <4uutoa$fab@news.ios.com> <3212FC78.7C80@rio.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 21:49:03 GMT
Lines: 13
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2655 alt.revisionism:57762 alt.censorship:94586 alt.online-service.compuserve:7413 soc.culture.german:82998 alt.sex:182408 alt.sex.wizards:32620 soc.culture.netherlands:41167 misc.kids:151784

Chuck: re "Ira ", and his  
"you goyim are to fucking stupid too": this is
most probably the same little nazi-boy who forged
articles before on soc.culture.german, pretending
to be a Jew.

Perhaps someone can check if this address really
exists ("Israel.com").


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 13:30:50 PDT 1996
Article: 57766 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 21:31:42 GMT
Lines: 35

Testimony of SS private Boeck:
[Extracted from "Der Auschwitz Prozess", by Hermann Langbein,
Vol. I, quoted in "Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas 
chambers - J.C Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989,
p. 181].
------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: were you present at a gassing operation one day?

A: Yes, it was one evening. I accompanied the driver Hoeblinger. A
   transport had arrived from Holland and the prisoners had to
   jump from the wagons. They were well-off Jews. There were
   women with Persian furs. They arrived by express train. The
   trucks were already there, with wooden steps before them, and
   the people climbed aboard. Then they all started off. In the
   place Birkenau once stood, there was only a long farmhouse
   (Bunker 2) and beside it four or five big huts. Inside, the
   people were standing on clothes which were building up on
   the floor. The block leader and the sergeant, carrying a cane,
   were there. Hoeblinger said to me 'lets go over there now'. There
   was a sign 'to disinfection'. He said 'you see, they are bringing
   children now'. They opened the door, threw the children in
   and closed the door. There was a terrible cry. A member of the
   SS climbed on the roof. The people went on crying for about
   ten minutes. Then the prisoners opened the doors. Everything
   was in disorder and contorted. Heat was given off. the bodies
   were loaded on a rough wagon and taken to a ditch. The next 
   batch were already undressing in the huts. After that I didn't
   look at my wife for four weeks.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 16 13:30:51 PDT 1996
Article: 57773 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1,000,000 , plus or minus, Pre-war Jews in Europe?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32133cc1.4591070@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:26:25 GMT
Lines: 20

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# At one time in the Holocaust story, it was said there were
# 700,000 Jews in pre-war France. The figure given now is 70,000.

Where is the 70,000 figure given, and does it relate to
all of France, or only the part under Nazi rule?

# we can easily get the idea that there were barely a million
# Jews in pre-war Europe.

Three million in Poland, 800,000 in Hungary, more than a
million in parts of the USSR which were invaded by Germany.

In other countries there were indeed smaller numbers.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:42 PDT 1996
Article: 57852 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematoria == gassing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uuou7$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 19:17:37 GMT
Lines: 17

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Crematoria must mean that people were gassed.  It is the
# unstated assumption of almost all of the claims that the 
# only reason for having crematoria in the first place was
# because there was mass gassing. 

No. The amounts of cremation furnaces do obviously
prove that mass murder was planned and executed.

They do not, by themselves, prove gassings. That is
proved by documents, eyewitnesses, and physical evidence.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:44 PDT 1996
Article: 57855 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: to summarize
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uuu8t$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4uvabq$or4@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:28:56 GMT
Lines: 18

libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:

[About Matt Giwer]

# Oh, God--he's back to claiming victory again.

Yes - certainly reminds of how Hitler kept thinking, till
the very end, that he's going to win.

And Hitler was smarter than Giwer. 

There are a few other differences, BTW. What did Hitler
have that Giwer doesn't have? Let's hear it, folks...  :-)


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:45 PDT 1996
Article: 57881 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4uvklh$pra@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 21:39:08 GMT
Lines: 95

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

Everything you write is tired old "revisionist" crap,
some of it so stupid that even "revisionists" have
given up on it. To elaborate:

# The whole story is goofy:  shipping Jews across hell's half
# acre to put them "gas chambers."   

One obvious reason was that the murder in the Euthanasia
gas chambers in Germany was strongly protested by the
population and the clergy. Hence, the attempt to
hide it by transporting the victims to selected
locations outside of Germany, where all the massive
death camps were. Plus, most were Polish Jews who
were killed not far from where they lived.

# Stated plainly, it doesn't make sense.  

Many historical events don't make sense. Stalin's murders
don't make sense. Pol Pot's murder of a million or more
of the elite of his nation doesn't make sense. You will
have to find a better argument.

# Genocide everywhere in history is done by bullet or starvation
# because that is what is more efficient.  

Says who? Why not save ammunition during war time? 

# I won't believe a kooky theory such as gas chambers
# when the Germans obviously had far more efficient methods 

It was *extremely* efficient. A few Kgs of Zyklon killed
2,000 people. And the stuff was available and very cheap.

# -- unless there is substantial and real evidence for such
# an anomaly.  But substantial and real evidence is precisely
# what the Holocausters -don't- have.  

There's plenty of evidence, no less substantial and real than,
say, the bombing of Dresden. 

# Aside from serious evidentiary contradictions (the structures
# of the so-called gas chambers, 

Huh? What is this rubbish? What are the "contradictions"
regarding the structure of the gas chambers?

# Zyklon B is an insecticide, etc), 

An insecticide which releases HCN, cyanide gas which is used
for 50 years or so to execute people in US prisons.

# and some highly suspicious testimony, 

Which you will have for every historical event. Or haven't
you seen yet those testimonies about Dresden?

# Given the brutality which many German officers either were
# subjected to or threatened with under Allied custody pending
# the Nuremberg trial, 

Garbage. Moreover so since most of the SS-men from the
death camps were tried by the German Legal System. You
don't even know this, right?

# along with the lack of evidence for the alleged millions
# of death (ashes not found), 

Ashes and human remains in large quantities were actually
found in some of the camps. Now, show me the corpses/ashes
of two million Germans who allegedly died while being
evacuated into Germany after the war.

No excuses. SHOW ME THEIR CORPSES. Or admit it's a hoax.
That's your line.

Let's see you clowns play this game.

# along with the structural impossibilities of the so-called 'gas
# chambers' (would have killed the German soldiers themselves), 

More outright garbage. There ARE cyanide traces on the walls of 
these gas chambers. Even the "revisionists" agree cyanide gas was 
used in them.

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.







From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:45 PDT 1996
Article: 57914 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4umtee$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4utn9s$eiq@grivel.une.edu.au>  <4v1ecf$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:18:38 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## And "jewboys"?

# Rather I have not read that term here.  

You type with your eyes closed? You also read with
your eyes closed?

 From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Wed Aug 14 13:49:31 EDT 1996
 NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-13.ix.netcom.com
 From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) 

# Quite true, Jewboy.  




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:46 PDT 1996
Article: 57917 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <32132c8f.444508@news.pacificnet.net> <4v1duk$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:14:17 GMT
Lines: 29

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# I have been through a real world test of Baysian stats.
# I funded it.  I mean like out of my budget. 

# I have no idea why people continue to play around with it.  

Because it works.

Call ARPA and tell them to halt their project on 
detecting roads in aerial images. It uses Bayesian
analysis. Just one example.   

You're talking about things of which you don't  
have a clue. You don't know anything about mathematics
or its applications.

Define Bayesian analysis, and show how it is applied,
for instance, to restore images. Go ahead. I am waiting.

You don't know anything about any technical matter, as
is proven here every day.

You're a sad clown.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:47 PDT 1996
Article: 57919 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!news.lava.net!news.pixi.com!news.zeitgeist.net!news.lanminds.com!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3211c90c.2514301@news.pacificnet.net> <32133b1d.4170894@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 20:47:41 GMT
Lines: 76

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

# Two million of six million is one third.
#
# The reference to "two million children" is not supported
# by any of the hundreds of photographs of Auschwitz. Nor is
# it supported by the Holocaust's own testimonies. 

What do you mean by "nor is it supported by the Holocaust's
own testimonies"? Do you mean that witnesses don't mention
that many children were murdered? But they do say this.

One indication to the percentage of children among the
victims is the report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about
the numbers of Jews murdered by his unit (Einsatzkommando 3),
in Lithuania, during July-November 1941. The report gives
a very accurate breakdown, by dates, and also classifies
the victims into Jewish men, women, and children.

Some typical entries:

[Source: 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
 Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 46-58].

The Commander of
the security police and
the SD
Einsatzkommando 3     Kauen [Kaunas], 1 December 1941

--------------------------
|Secret Reich Business!  |             5 copies
--------------------------             4th copy

      Complete list of executions carried out in the EK 3 area
      up to 1 December 1941

[...]


12.9.41      City of Wilna     993 Jews, 1,670 Jewesses, 771
                               Jewish children                       3,334
17.9.41      City of Wilna     337 Jews, 687 Jewesses, 247
                               Jewish children and 4 Lith. Comm.     1,271
20.9.41      Nemencing         128 Jews, 176 Jewesses, 99
                               Jewish children                       403
22.9.41      Novo-Wilejka      468 Jews, 495 Jewesses, 196
                               Jewish children                       1,159
24.9.41      Riess             512 Jews, 744 Jewesses, 511
                               Jewish children                       1,767
25.9.41      Jahiunai          215 Jews, 229 Jewesses, 131
                               Jewish children                       575
27.9.41      Eysisky           989 Jews, 1,636 Jewesses, 821
                               Jewish children                       3,446
30.9.41      Trakai            366 Jews, 483 Jewesses, 597
                               Jewish children                       1,446
4.10.41      City of Wilna     432 Jews, 1,115 Jewesses, 436
                               Jewish children                       1,983
6.10.41      Semiliski         213 Jews, 359 Jewesses, 390
                               Jewish children                       962
9.10.41      Svenciany         1,169 Jews, 1,840 Jewesses, 717
                               Jewish children                       3,726
16.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 507 Jewesses, 257
                               Jewish children                       1,146
21.10.41     City of Wilna     718 Jews, 1,063 Jewesses, 586
                               Jewish children                       2,367

[...]



Do the calculation. I can post the complete report.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:48 PDT 1996
Article: 57924 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematoria == gassing
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uuou7$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4v1hbn$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:43:55 GMT
Lines: 26

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# All you can do is is your Baysian "assume it did happen"
# approach to life.  Such an ignoramus.

There is nothing about the Bayesian approach that "assumes
it did happen".

I told you already. You're a zero, a failure.

You can't handle basic arithmetic, yet you pretend
to understand higher mathematics.

You're a joke.

See below.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:48 PDT 1996
Article: 57925 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Lagace's testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com> <32133535.2658370@news.pacificnet.net>  <32147f0a.424075@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:49:25 GMT
Lines: 27

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## How many would claim that corpses might explode like a
## napalm bomb, and burn down the whole crematory building,
## if inserted to a furnace which is too hot?
##
## This is what "revisionist scholar" Legace said.

# Really? Are these his exact words? Or are they your
# ecxact words?

Didn't you post them yourselves? He claimed that the
corpse may ignite in a flash, burn the crematory
operator, and then the whole building will burn down.

If you didn't post it, I'll look for it.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:49 PDT 1996
Article: 57926 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3211c90c.2514301@news.pacificnet.net> <32133b1d.4170894@news.pacificnet.net>  <4v1gm2$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:39:41 GMT
Lines: 38

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Either you are  a fraud with the PhD claim or you know     
# the even basic arithmetic is contrary to your claims.
#
# There is nothing in between.  
#
# You are a fraud.  

You are a little zero, hardly educated, who has achieved
nothing in his life and had to retire at the age of 46,
for reasons which are quite obvious for everyone
following your articles here.

You are a failure, a loser, a frustrated, vulgar, stupid
51-year-old punk who can only find common language with
teenage Nazi punks, who are your natural colleagues.

You have proved that you don't know anything about
chemistry, history, diesel engines, arithmetic...

Your feelings of inferiority and frustration drive
you crazy; that's why the fact that I have a Ph.D - which
I never made a lot of mention of - is a source of
endless anger for you.

Face it pal, you're a zero. A nothing. A failure. And
it's only going to grow worse as you get older.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:50 PDT 1996
Article: 57972 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Yale Eideken never delivered the goods." (was Re: "I will...this weekend.")
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v29kt$9bc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 04:18:43 GMT
Lines: 41

mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[To kurtstele@aol.com (KurtStele)]

# And I'm still waiting for evidence that your'e not some 
# pimply-faced asshole jerking-off under the covers because 
# he gets his thrills insulting the surviving relatives of 
# the victims of the Holocaust as well as the victims themselves....  

He's just another stupid little Nazi brat.

Who says that the gas chambers couldn't function as
such, without providing any proof or argument whatsoever.
Note how he simply repeats it, again and again, without
giving any rational argument as to why it's true.

Who says that using cyanide in the gas chambers "would have 
killed the German soldiers themselves". Never mind that there
are indeed cyanide compounds on their walls, proving cyanide was
indeed used in them, and thus proving he's a damned idiot.

This guy is nearly as stupid as Giwer.

He also wrote, BTW:

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
#
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
#
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!

To summarize, he's a stupid little Nazi, who explicitly
says that he wishes the Holocaust would have happened. 

At least, he's more honest than some of the other Nazi 
trash here.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:51 PDT 1996
Article: 58004 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Just Another Lie from Giwer
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 22:28:51 GMT
Lines: 41

An interesting fact regarding the Giwer phenomena is
that, if you look closely enough, you'll find an
outright lie in practically each and every article 
he writes.

It's like these existence theories in mathematics.

Let's look at his essay 

 From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
 Subject: What was the basis for the stories about the holocaust?
 Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 08:12:56 GMT
 
[...]

# And interesting sidebar to this is that Auschwitz had an
# extensive underground organization and tens of thousands of
# letters were sent in and out over the years.  Not one has been
# found that mentions gassing.  Hundreds of diaries were kept by
# inmates.  Not one of them mentions gassing.



First, it would be worthwhile to have the source for the
figure of "tens of thousands of letters", and "hundreds of 
diaries". But, moreover, while browsing in "Auschwitz: a 
History in Photographs", ISBN 0-253-35581-8, I found (items
192-5) photographs of both letters and diaries which
do mention the homicidal gas chambers.


-Danny Keren.



-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:51 PDT 1996
Article: 58006 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4v0rv5$dab@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4v447l$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:14:19 GMT
Lines: 78

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# They were even dumb enough to ship them all the way from
# France just to gas them in Poland.  Or would not the French 
# "stand for it"?  

I responded to this in my reply to "kurtstele".

# Not in the Ukraine, not run by Pol Pot.  

What about the gulags? How many people were shipped
there by trains? The Soviets could do it, and the
Nazis couldn't?

## Ok, let's here it. What gas do you think they should
## have used?

# CO2, free from breathing.  If you want it faster, dump
# some burning coke down your "induction columns."  It is 
# not as though it is all that hard to do it cheaper.  

Too slow. 

Funny thing is the following. Suppose the Nazis would have
killed people that way. Then, as we know well, the
"revisionists" would be saying "why kill people with
such slow, idiotic, primitive methods, when you have
numerous quantities of Zyklon-B around, which can do
the job within minutes, and is very cheap?".

## The same gas, HCN, is used to execute people in US
## prisons. A natural choice.

# But something as foolish as ZB is not used and would be
# quite a riduculous way to go about it.  

Look, you sorry imbecile. It makes no difference. It releases
the same gas - HCN - which is used to kill people in gas
chambers in US prisons.

Can't you miserable drecks understand that it doesn't
matter what the source of the gas is? That it will kill
people nontheless?

## There are many more such documents.

# Two, neither clear, amidst all the rest with no
# such indication.  

This, from someone who claimed Belsen camp was in Poland.

I told you already, you don't know anything.

There are many more than two documents proving an
extermination plan.

# You folks started "discovering" the
# morgues were really gas chambers about four years ago. 

You demonstrate your insanity once again. The location
of the Birkenau gas chambers was well-known since 
the liberation.

# You home can function as a gas chamber.  Prove it is not.  

There are no witnesses who say it functioned as a gas chamber.

There are no cyanide compounds on the walls.

There are no documents which prove it was used as a gas
chamber.

Stop being such a fool.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:52 PDT 1996
Article: 58043 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v1duk$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4v409g$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 20:58:30 GMT
Lines: 20

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# And you are the one who has NEVER responded to a 
# calculation with another calculation.  

I gave my figures re the Zyklon: in a 500 m^3 gas chamber
(as the largest were), 4 Kg of Zyklon will kill the victims
within minutes.

Tell us what your figure is.

Is it "aleph sub 1"? You want, BTW, to tell us what
"aleph sub 1" means? You don't want people to think
you're throwing big words around to impress them,
without having an idea what you're talking about?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:54 PDT 1996
Article: 58071 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v0rv5$dab@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v3601$5u9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v450e$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:38:20 GMT
Lines: 29

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) wrote:

[...]

# Well done again.

Giwer has a friend. Of course, it's a little Nazi who says
that he wishes the Holocaust *did* take place, and who 
makes claims about as idiotic as Giwer's; for instance,
that using HCN in the gas chambers would have "killed
the German soldiers themselves" - this, while (as even
"revisonists" admit) HCN was indeed used in the chambers,
as the cyanide compounds on their walls prove.

For other examples, see replies to "kurtstele". Personally,
I suspect it's a Giwer alias; he sounds too much like him,
and the probability of nature making two mistakes like
this is not too high.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:54 PDT 1996
Article: 58072 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!panix!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v1gm2$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v36k0$6b9@news.enter.net> <4v465v$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:48:26 GMT
Lines: 31

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Are you aware of any other insecticide at the time?  
#
# Learn some history.  That was the age of flypaper.  You do
# know that that is, do you not?  

You were told, many times, that the inventory list
mentions:

1) A gas-tight door for cellar I, none for cellar II.

2) 14 shower-heads for cellar I, none for cellar II.

Can you explain why one "morgue" required a gas-tight
door, and the other didn't?

Can you explain why one "morgue" required shower-heads,
and the other didn't?

Any chance you'll even reply to this question, oh 163-IQ'ed?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:55 PDT 1996
Article: 58116 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer == Intellectual Zero (Re: Crematoria == gassing)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4uuou7$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4v1hbn$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4v48i6$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 22:07:35 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

# All you can do is is your Baysian "assume it did happen"
# approach to life.  Such an ignoramus.

I responded that:

1) There's nothing about the Bayesian approach which "assumes
   it did happen".

2) Giwer should learn basic arithmetic, before he attempts to
   understand higher concepts.

Instead of trying to defend his intellectual capabilities
and knowledge, he responded in his usual fashion: posting
what appears to be the address of ken McVay's service provider.

I view this as Giwer admitting defeat; he obviously does
not even try to defend the rubbish he posted.

But what can you expect from a senile failure, a nobody,
a frustrated loser such as Giwer? He's a zero, and he
knows it. He also knows it's going to get worse as
he grows older.

It's already rather bad right now. See below.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:56 PDT 1996
Article: 58117 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer & Son
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 22:16:50 GMT
Lines: 32

I wrote to Matt Giwer:

## I only pray that your children (if you have any) are
## better than you.

To which he responded:

 From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
 Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 05:40:17 GMT
 Organization: images incarnate

# I do not have to pray, I know.  His shooting skills simply
# are not as good as mine as yet.  It is just a matter of time.  
# He is also slower to anger than I, perhaps due to his weighing 
# near 300 lbs and built like Alley Oop.  But then, it is the 
# dark alley of your oop.  

Can anyone figure out what the Giwer is talking about?

Is this a threat? It sure looks like one. 


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58146 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v45re$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4v81ab$4v2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 22:49:31 GMT
Lines: 68

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# After the Polish jews -did- find out about the "secret
# extermination plan" why did the nazis -continue- to send
# them to the camps anyway?  

This was near the end; by the time the rebellion in Warsaw
Ghetto broke out, most of Poland's Jews were already dead.

# If the Germans -really- wanted to exterminate the jews then
# the Germans would not concoct some ludicrous and costly 
# inter-continental train transportation scheme just to keep 
# it a secret for fear of a jewish -armed- rebellion -- that's 
# actually a laughable thought.  

Not at all. The Warsaw Ghetto rebellion was a major problem
for the Nazis. It took them a long time to crush it, and 
they had to use large military resources, which had to be 
diverted from the front - artillery, etc. But then again,
this is the first time you've heard about the rebellion,
right? 

Moreover, by promising the Jews they're going to be "resettled",
the Nazis reduced the number of Jews who tried to escape
the deportation plan.

Possibly, the major fallacy of your idiotic theory is the
fact that the Jews *were* transported. No one denies that;
not even the craziest "revisionist". So, all these trains
*were* used to deport the Jews of France, Holland, Greece,
Hungary. What your "revisionist" fuehrers say is exactly
what the Nazis told the Jews: that they're being sent to
the Ukraine or deeper into the USSR. But that, mein kliene
dummkopf, would result in the Nazis wasting *even more*
resources than deporting the Jews to the death camps, which
were closer to France, Greece, Holland, Hungary; right?

# If the nazis -really- wanted to exterminate jews, they 
# certainly didn't -need- to transport jews hundreds of miles 
# in -fear- of an uprising from them.

Sorry, nazi-boy. They *did* transport them. Fact. Even
your fuehrers admit this.

# and it was explained to you that those so-called "gas 
# chambers" are nothing more than post-WWII jewish hoaxes.  It 
# was impossible for those buildings as they were designed and 
# according to their structure for them to operate as functional 
# gas chambers.

And it was explained to you, you tiresome, stupid nazi-boy,
that you have to *prove* that it was impossible to use
them as gas chambers. You simply keep repeating this,
without offering any proof or reason whatsoever.

It was possible to use HCN gas in these chambers, and 
the best proof for this is the fact that there are still
cyanide compounds on their walls. Even your fuehrers
admit this. They admit HCN gas was used in these chambers.
Why you just give up and admit you're wrong? you'll still 
be "White", which is, according to your articles, of crucial 
importance to you.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:58 PDT 1996
Article: 58154 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v8457$62t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 23:32:42 GMT
Lines: 61

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# OH. And I'm sure the nazis who were at war on 2 fronts
# had -nothing better- to do with all of this allegedly
# -confiscated jewish money than to invest it into a needless 
# inter-continental train transportation scheme to transport 
# jews

But the "revisionist" argument is that they *did* transport
them, deep into the USSR, thus wasting *more* resources
than by transporting them to the death camps.

The fact is that these people *were* transported. No question
about that. Do you want to suggest *where* they were
transported to?

# Obviously the camp were being run for a different reason
# than to kill (much less "gas") jews, i.e., a labor camp.

Ah, there we go again with the "labor camp" that has five
huge crematoriums with 52 cremation furnaces. Don't deny
this, your fuehrers accept this as fact.

# supposedly did medical experiments on jews,

That's a new one. So far, "revisionists" didn't deny the
medical experiments (not only on Jews, BTW). These are
extremely well-documented. I recall even Ernst Zundel
admitted they took place. There was, in fact, a 
difficult debate among doctors whether to use the
results of these experiments. 

# Yet according to holohugger Mike Curtis these same
# "evil nazis" who supposedly were trying to exterminate 
# jews were "too sensitive" to kill them by simply 
# shooting them. 

According to various sources, including Ohlendorf, there
were soldiers who found it difficult to shoot point blank
at women and children. No one's saying all Germans were
animals. I'm just saying all you nazi-boys are animals,
because you live in a society which guides you in the
correct direction, and you chose to follow evil nontheless.

A Hans Stark, a Walter Burmeister, etc, could claim
at his defense that he was brainwashed by the evil Nazi
regime. He was told, since he was a child, that various
categories of people are vermin and should be killed; he
didn't know any better.

You damned animals, on the other hand, were never told
this. You *chose* this view of the universe. It's your
right. But it's our right, nazi-boy, to defend ourselves
with any means possible, should you animals try to have
another go at it. 


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58173 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another Demonstration Of Giwer's Senility (Re: revisio
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4umtee$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4v1ecf$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v26g4$9q3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4v3urr$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:30:46 GMT
Lines: 47

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william canderson) wrote:
## Matt  Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
### dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

#### And "jewboys"?

### Rather I have not read that term here.  

## Liar.  You've USED that term here.

# No.  In fact I rather carefully keep away from terms
# that I do not create such as holohugger.  

No, senile dreck. You used it 3 days ago.

I've just checked dejanews, just to be sure; this is the article.

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=6993909&
server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=840316862.610&hitnum=0

 Subject:      Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
 From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Date:         1996/08/14
 Message-Id:   <4us72p$gfb@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
 References:   <320D0765.3492@kaiwan.com>  
 <4umv8b$94 q@dfw-Ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> 
 Organization: images incarnate
 X-Netcom-Date: Wed Aug 14  2:42:49 AM PDT 1996
 Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism

You referred to me as "Jewboy" in that article. Look it
up. It's easy for a 163-IQ'ed to do.

Don't they say that retiring too early may well results
in senility striking early? Moreover so in people such
as yourself?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:03:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58203 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Beaulieu's Translation of Himmler's Posen Speech
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <01bb8d7a$24f3bae0$8cb85ccf@default>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 02:59:42 GMT
Lines: 39

There's another key part of Himmler's speech, which allows
a chilling view into the depths of Nazi barbarism. It does
not discuss Jews, but Slavs. BTW - the recording is also
available on Nizkor's site.


 From the speech of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, speaking to SS
Major-Generals, Poznan, October 4 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 559]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we
must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own
blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,
does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer
in good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping
their children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in
prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we
need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest
to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion
while digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as
the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough
and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,
who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude
towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these
human animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry
about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and
grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When someone
comes to me and says, "I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women
and children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them", then I
would have to say, "you are a murderer of your own blood because
if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and
they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:04:00 PDT 1996
Article: 58209 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Alleged Talmud Quotes (Re: Jews Run Everything)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v70s0$2p2@access5.digex.net> <4v82dv$59v@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 23:04:21 GMT
Lines: 27

We have seen such "quotes" from the Talmud numerous times,
and they always turned out to be forgeries, often mentioning
books which do not even exist.

Post the exact location and the exact Hebrew text of all
these alleged quotes.

Hell, you have no idea what you're babbling about. You
have no idea what the Talmud is, whether these books
exist or not, nothing.

You're just a stupid little nazi-boy, who dug this crap
in the same place where you dug your stupid theories
about the gas chambers. Like it being impossible to
use HCN gas in them, never mind that their walls are
soaked with cyanide compounds.

You poor little Nazi bastard. You miserable drecks
always remind me of the millions of German youths who
blindly followed Adolf Shitler only to die a horrible
death in the frozen wastes of the USSR. Poor stupid
bastards. You don't even realize you're being used.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 16:04:01 PDT 1996
Article: 58251 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Beaulieu's Translation of Himmler's Posen Speech
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <01bb8d7a$24f3bae0$8cb85ccf@default>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 02:56:31 GMT
Lines: 27

As always, a key part of the speech was left out.

BTW, the real audio version is on the Nizkor site.

This is the part I was referring to:

Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in 
Poznan, October 4 and 6, 1943
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
p. 469]
-------------------------------------------------------------
And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
that is what has made us hard.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 18:07:27 PDT 1996
Article: 34874 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.anything,alt.skinheads,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.polit
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Sign up for the WORLD famous Zgrams
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com> <4uib2v$fr1@molokini.conterra.com> <4unk21$ouq@infor <4uu7ej$89s@news1.panix.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:22:08 GMT
Lines: 17
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.skinheads:34874 alt.society.conservatism:49734 alt.politics.usa.constitution:82091 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27379 alt.revisionism:57825 alt.politics.white-power:39704 soc.culture.usa:90818 alt.conspiracy:78487 talk.politics.misc:432194

fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) writes:

# Ingrid, why don't you go back to breast-feeding your
# idiot son

Must say I didn't like this.                    

# You disgust me

I feel more pity towards her. She's obviously insane. But,
whatever, I don't think that this particular tragedy of hers
is something to joke about.

   
-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 18:27:23 PDT 1996
Article: 83127 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,rec.arts.movies.misc,soc.culture.german
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Germans protest against Tom Cruise's Scientology links
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: soc.culture.german
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 02:42:41 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:173113 rec.arts.movies.misc:3532 soc.culture.german:83127

olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# I have just critisized and challenged the established 
# historiography concerning fate of the Jews in the German
# concentration camps during WW2.

This, you have done by claiming that it would be
difficult to cremate many corpses in the Birkenau
furnaces, because if a corpse is inserted into a hot
cremation furnace it may explode like a napalm bomb.

# For that I have been libeled and called a Nazi.

No. You're not even a Nazi. You're a nazi-boy.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 18:27:24 PDT 1996
Article: 83152 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Germans protest against Tom Cruise's Scientology links
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ug7io$acp@due.unit.no> <4v0o6b$h4r@nyx10.cs.du.edu>  <1UF5oOev1iS1065yn@login.dknet.dk>
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 01:40:32 GMT
Lines: 14

Mr. Kreiberg,

A personal question if you may. You once posted that 
you visited Eilat. Did you ever go down too deep
into the "blue hole"?

Sincerely,


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 18:27:25 PDT 1996
Article: 83233 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Goldhagen's book about the holocaust
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v8iga$31p@cambridge.emi.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 03:22:36 GMT
Lines: 28

brunowol@emi.net (Bruno) writes:

# And all the other remaining Germans had nothing to do
# with the attrocities that apparently happened.

I didn't read the book and can't comment on some of your
points. However, your claim above is ridiculous, and this     
type of argument was even rejected by the German Legal
System, which punished a large number of Nazi war criminals,
while refusing to accept the "an order is an order" paradigm 
as an excuse for mass murder.

One of the things that Himmler said before he killed
himself was "why am I responsible for these crimes
of my subordinates?". Arguing like that, I guess no
one is to blame: the little ones blame the big ones,
and the big ones blame the little ones, and we all
dance around in a merry circle forever.

If you bury your head in the sand, and say "it all happened 
because of Hitler and a dozen others", you will get nowhere. 
You will learn nothing.  The whole bloody lesson will have 
been in vain.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 21:09:56 PDT 1996
Article: 58294 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4v8skk$gvj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:03:05 GMT
Lines: 83

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Those transportations of jews is proof of -relocation- not 
# extermination and does not help the holohugger position one bit.

This is garbage.

You're saying "why would they waste resources by transporting
the Jews to the death camps", while claiming they wasted
far more resources by relocating the Jews deep into the
USSR. Never mind that they were never found.

# to the labor camps

What labor camps? Name them.

## Ah, there we go again with the "labor camp" that has five
## huge crematoriums with 52 cremation furnaces. Don't deny
## this, your fuehrers accept this as fact.

# now which one(s) are you referring to:  the little crematorium 
# at Auschwitz which was far too small to cremate the holohoax's 
# alleged millions?

You're really a dumb one, aren't you? Auschwitz-Birkenau had
five crematoriums, with 52 cremation furnaces combined. Your
fuehrers don't deny this; they just claim all this cremation
power was needed to deal with the victims of typhus.

# Your holohugger story about gas chambers and Zyklon B is 
# unsubstantiated bull.

Shrug. You can keep repeating that a lame-brained parrot,
or try to prove it.

Especially your point about how using cyanide gas in the gas
chambers would have "killed the German soldiers themselves",
this while their walls are soaked with cyanide compounds...

You sorry imbecile.

# The jews got rounded up and sent away from society where the
# German Reich didn't want them and into labor camps to do some 
# honest work.  The nazis fed and generally took care of them and 
# deloused the place with Zyklon B because the nazis wanted the 
# inmates to be free of lice.

 From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
--------------------------------------------------------------
At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered
me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it
trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

   * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz



# If I was a -real- nazi 

You are; which is why you posted that you wish the Holocaust
did take place.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 21:09:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58295 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v409g$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4v93gc$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:50:39 GMT
Lines: 49

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## I gave my figures re the Zyklon: in a 500 m^3 gas chamber
## (as the largest were), 4 Kg of Zyklon will kill the victims
## within minutes.

# But you NEVER provided any basis for the calculation.  

Ok, I'll make a deal with you. You post your figure (no
calculation), and then I'll post the calculation that
results in 4 Kg. Fair enough?

# You pulled numbers out of the air or your ass 

I ask you again not to use here the language that you
learned at home. This is public domain.

# Obviously there are no reports of an 500 m^3 chambers.  

Obviously you don't know anything about nothing. The
gas chambers in Kremas II and III (the largest in
Auschwitz-Birkenau) are 30 X 7 X 2.4 meters.

# The LKs are now different than they were a week ago.  
# Do you not find this truly amazing? 

Nothing is different but in the projection of reality
onto Giwer's tiny, crazy world.

# You have obviously never heard of orders of infinity.  

I surely did. I want you to post the definition of aleph sub 1.
Go ahead. Post it. Why are you afraid?

# But then it was only broght to the attention of the world 
# some 80 years ago by Einstein.  

Einstein? You're *really* sure it was Einstein?


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 21:09:58 PDT 1996
Article: 58300 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: How it Started: Brack Testifies About the Euthanasia Gas Chambers
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:09:46 GMT
Lines: 78

Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 
p. 876-886].
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
   by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
   methods were the mercy deaths given?

A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
   formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities
   here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
   etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there 
   killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).

Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?

A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
   container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel
   container.

Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
   suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
   chambers?

A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's
   basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
   painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
   photographing of the patients, which was only done for
   scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
   chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
   Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
   told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
   20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.
 .
 .
 .

Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
   were given?

A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
   brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
   room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
   were dead.

Q. Then what happened to the bodies?

A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
   cremation and they were cremated.

Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
   dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?

A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
 .
 .
 .

Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
   bath?

A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
   thought that.

Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
   clothes on or were they nude?

A. No. They were nude.

Q. In every case?

A. Whenever I saw them, yes.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 21:09:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58312 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.anything,alt.skinheads,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Sign up for the WORLD famous Zgrams
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com> <4uib2v$fr1@molokini.conterra.com> <4unk21$ouq@infor <4v99ic$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:26:13 GMT
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# To get to the iceberg, Wiesel, Wiesenthal, Golda Meyer            
# despite her spelling and pronunciation along with most
# of the founders and "fathers" of Israel.  And if they were
# not "German" then just what were they?

Golda Meir was Russian, you dimwitted imbecile. Wiesel and
Wiesenthal are not Israelis.

It never ceases to amaze me: you simply know nothing.
No matter what topic is being discussed, you write
the most stupid things possible. You are amazing.      


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 19 21:20:23 PDT 1996
Article: 432194 of talk.politics.misc
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.anything,alt.skinheads,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.polit
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Sign up for the WORLD famous Zgrams
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com> <4uib2v$fr1@molokini.conterra.com> <4unk21$ouq@infor <4uu7ej$89s@news1.panix.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:22:08 GMT
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fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) writes:

# Ingrid, why don't you go back to breast-feeding your
# idiot son

Must say I didn't like this.                    

# You disgust me

I feel more pity towards her. She's obviously insane. But,
whatever, I don't think that this particular tragedy of hers
is something to joke about.

   
-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 07:25:31 PDT 1996
Article: 58366 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4v061p$rqp@hil-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> <4v5063$iah@Vir.com> <4v97tu$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:18:20 GMT
Lines: 18

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Of what value is looking INTO a windowless room
# without lights?

Who told you it didn't have lights?

The same one who told you Belsen camp was in Poland?


-Danny Keren.

In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 07:25:32 PDT 1996
Article: 58367 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4v8p6o$f00@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v9h76$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 18:32:10 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Fuck Israel and Jews and the horse they rode in on.

You f**k the horse.

Watch out boys, two days from now he'll claim he
never wrote this. Like when on August 14 he called
me "Jewboy" and now he denies having used that
expression. He's going down the tubes. 


-Danny Keren.

In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 07:25:32 PDT 1996
Article: 58377 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Do Not Forget
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9hfm$2nk@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vantk$7p0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:25:23 GMT
Lines: 57

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

What's your name, nazi-boy? It's been posted that this
is an alias. Why is such a big Nazi like you afraid to
post under his own name?

Is it because you're another alias to someone who's
posting here? You sure sound *exactly* the same.

# Is this going to be another Anne Frank Diary Hoax,

   For an excellent treatment of this subject, see "Denying the Holocaust: 
   The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory", by Deborah Lipstadt, published 
   by the Free Press, ISBN 0-02-919235-8.

   In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation submitted
   Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science
   Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity.
   The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used--
   the ink, paper, glue, etc.--and the handwriting and issued a report of
   some 270 pages.  "The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory
   has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne
   Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944.  The allegations
   that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or
   otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted."  Furthermore, that "despite
   corrections and omissions..._The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank_ [i.e., the
   published version of the diaries] does indeed contain `the essence' of
   Anne's writings, and that there are no grounds on which the term
   `forgery' can be applied to the work of the editors or publishers of
   the book." <1>

   1.  Anne Frank, _The_Diary_of_Anne_Frank:_The_Critical_Edition_,
       Prepared by the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation,
       edited by David Barnouw and Gerrold Van Der Stroom, (New York,
       Doubleday, 1989) p. 166.

# what about the Talmud?  Where they tell how to have sex
# with dogs,
    
Can you give a source for that, untermench?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 07:25:33 PDT 1996
Article: 58401 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Professor Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:07:56 GMT
Lines: 67

Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec...

During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
morning.

A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
their shoes...

After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
killed here...

Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 07:25:34 PDT 1996
Article: 58405 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3211c90c.2514301@news.pacificnet.net> <4v1gm2$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 21:17:57 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# And, as noted, you are incapable of basic arithmetic
# and have never posted any. 

I gave my figure: 4 Kg of Zyklon-B, in a 500 m^3 gas
chamber, will kill the victims within minutes.

Post your figure.


-Danny Keren.


-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 10:23:36 PDT 1996
Article: 134619 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:10:16 GMT
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 10:23:37 PDT 1996
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 22:59:50 GMT
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 10:23:38 PDT 1996
Article: 134651 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
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Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 10:55:28 PDT 1996
Article: 58445 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4v447l$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4v9bb7$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:40:14 GMT
Lines: 45

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## I responded to this in my reply to "kurtstele".

# You did not.  Please repost your claim.  

Once again: the claim "why would they have used up 
resources in transporting the Jews" is void, because
they *did* transport them. "Revisionists" claim they
were transported deep into the USSR, which would
have wasted *more* resources than transporting them
to the death camps, which were closer.

# Not in the same time frame as you well know a a 
# mathematician even though your REFUSE to post any 
# calculations.  

My figure for the amount of Zyklon-B in a 500 m^3 room,
enough to cause swift death (15 minutes or so), is 
4 Kg. Post your figure.

## There are many more than two documents proving an
## extermination plan.

# There are still only two.  

There are many more. Many such documents are posted on
this newsgroup. Try counting with *all* your fingers. I
know it's difficult for you, but try.

# Learn some arithmetic you lying bastard.  

I'm sorry that you're a zero, a nothing, a miserable
failure, and an imbecile. But it ain't my fault. So don't
take it out on me, please.


-Danny Keren.

-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 10:55:30 PDT 1996
Article: 58446 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer & Son Again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:57:05 GMT
Lines: 27

I wrote to Matt Giwer:

## I only pray that your children (if you have any) are
## better than you.

To which he responded:

 From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
 Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 05:40:17 GMT
 Organization: images incarnate

# I do not have to pray, I know.  His shooting skills simply
# are not as good as mine as yet.  It is just a matter of time.  
# He is also slower to anger than I, perhaps due to his weighing 
# near 300 lbs and built like Alley Oop.  But then, it is the 
# dark alley of your oop.  

Can anyone figure out what the Giwer is talking about?

Is this a threat? It sure looks like one. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 10:55:31 PDT 1996
Article: 58467 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Days Of Murder: Jager's EK3
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:06:58 GMT
Lines: 374

Among all the Nazi documents detailing dastardly acts of mass
murder and other forms of barbarism, the "Jager Report" is
perhaps one of the most horrifying.

Written by SS-Standartenfuehrer (Colonel) Jager, commander of one 
of the "Einsatzkommandos" (EK 3), it provides a very detailed,
blood-curling account of the murderous rampage of this "special
squad" in Nazi-occupied USSR. Usually, the figures for Jews who were
murdered by EK 3 are broken into "Jewish men", "Jewish women", and
"Jewish children".

To understand the magnitude of the massacres, note the total number 
of victims - 137,346. This is for one Einsatkommando, in a five month
period, in one area. This report reflects very clearly on the plan
to kill all the Jews, except those who were needed for working
purposes; those were, as the report notes, "only" to be sterilized;
Jager goes on to state that "if despite sterilization a Jewess
becomes pregnant she will be liquidated".


Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941
['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
NY, 1988, p. 46-58].
------------------------------------------------------------------

The Commander of
the security police and
the SD
Einsatzkommando 3     Kauen [Kaunas], 1 December 1941

--------------------------
|Secret Reich Business!  |             5 copies
--------------------------             4th copy

      Complete list of executions carried out in the EK 3 area
      up to 1 December 1941

Security police duties in Lithuania taken over by Einsatzkommando 3 on
2 July 1941.
(The Wilna [Vilnius] area was taken over by EK 3 on 9 Aug. 1941, the
Schaulen area on 2 Oct. 1941. Up until these dates EK 9 operated in
Wilna and EK 2 in Schaulen.)
On my instructions and orders the following executions were conducted by
Lithuanian partisans:

4.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    416 Jews, 47  Jewesses                463
6.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    Jews                                  2,514

Following the formation of a raiding squad under the command of
SS-Obersturmfuherer Hamman and 8-10 reliable men from the
Einsatzkommando. the following actions were conducted in cooperation
with Lithuanian partisans:

7.7.41       Mariampole        Jews                                  32
8.7.41       Mariampole        14 Jews, 5 Comm. officials            19
8.7.41       Girkalinei        Comm. officials                       6
9.7.41       Wendziogala       32 Jews, 2 Jewesses, 1 Lithuanian
                               (f.), 2 Lithuanian Comm., 1
                               Russian Comm.                         38
9.7.41       Kauen-Fort VII    21 Jews, 3 Jewesses                   24
14.7.41      Mariampole        21 Jews, 1 Russ., 9 Lith. Comm.       31
17.7.41      Babtei            8 Comm. officials (incl. 6 Jews)       8
18.7.41      Mariampole        39 Jews, 14 Jewesses                  53
19.7.41      Kauen-Fort VII    17 Jews, 2 Jewesses, 4 Lith.
                               Comm., 2 Comm. Lithuanians (f.),
                               1 German Comm.                        26
21.7.41      Panevezys         59 Jews, 11 Jewesses, 1
                               Lithuanian (f.), 1 Pole, 22 Lith.
                               Comm., 9 Russ. Comm.                  103
22.7.41      Panevezys         1 Jew                                 1
23.7.41      Kedainiai         83 Jews, 12 Jewesses, 14 Russ.
                               Comm., 15 Lith. Comm., 1 Russ.
                               O-Politruk                            125
25.7.41      Mariampole        90 Jews, 13 Jewesses                  103
28.7.41      Panevezys         234 Jews, 15 Jewesses, 19 Russ.
                               Comm., 20 Lith. Comm.                 288

                                      Total carried forward        3,384


Sheet 2
                                      Total carried over           3,384

29.7.41      Rasainiai         254 Jews, 3 Lith. Comm.               257
30.7.41      Agriogala         27 Jews, 11 Lith. Comm.               38
31.7.41      Utena             235 Jews, 16 Jewesses, 4 Lith.
                               Comm., 1 robber/murderer              256
31.7.41      Wendziogala       13 Jews, 2 murderers                  15
1.8.41       Ukmerge           254 Jews, 42 Jewesses, 1 Pol.
                               Comm., 2 Lith. NKVD agents, 1
                               mayor of Jonava who gave order
                               to set fire to Jonava                 300
2.8.41       Kauen-Fort IV     170 Jews, 1 US Jewess, 33 Jewesses,
                               4 Lith. Comm.                         209
4.8.41       Panevezys         362 Jews, 41 Jewesses, 5 Russ. Comm.,
                               14 Lith. Comm.                        422
5.8.41       Rasainiai         213 Jews, 66  Jewesses                279
7.8.41       Utena             483 Jews, 87 Jewesses, 1 Lithuanian
                               (robber of corpses of German soldiers)571
8.8.41       Ukmerge           620 Jews, 82 Jewesses                 702
9.8.41       Kauen-Fort IV     484 Jews, 50 Jewesses                 534
11.8.41      Panevezys         450 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 1 Lith. 1 Russ.500
13.8.41      Alytus            617 Jews, 100 Jewesses, 1 criminal    719
14.8.41      Jonava            497 Jews, 55 Jewesses                 552
15-16.8.41   Rokiskis          3,200 Jews, Jewesses, and J. Children,
                               5 Lith. Comm., 1 Pole, 1 partisan     3207
9-16.8.41    Rasainiai        294 Jewesses, 4 Jewish children       298
27.6-14.8.41 Rokiskis          493 Jews, 432 Russians, 56 Lithuanians
                               (all active communists)               981
18.8.41      Kauen-Fort IV     689  Jews, 402 Jewesses, 1 Pole (f.),
                               711 Jewish intellectuals from Ghetto
                               in reprisal for sabotage action       1,812
19.8.41      Ukmerge           298 Jews, 255 Jewesses, 1 Politruk,
                               88 Jewish children, 1 Russ. Comm.     645
22.8.41      Dunanburg          3 Russ. Comm., 5 Latvian, incl. 1
                               murderer, 1 Russ. Guardsman, 3 Poles,
                               3 gypsies (m.), 1 gypsy (f.), 1 gypsy
                               child, 1 Jew, 1 Jewess, 1 Armenian
                               (m.), 2 Politruks (prison inspection
                               in Dunanburg                          21


                                      Total carried forward        16,152


Sheet 3
                                      Total carried forward        16,152

22.8.41      Aglona            Mentally sick: 269 men, 227 women,
                               48 children                           544
23.8.41      Panevezys         1,312 Jews, 4,602 Jewesses, 1,609
                               Jewish children                       7,523
18-22.8.41   Kreis Rasainiai   466 Jews, 440 Jewesses, 1,020
                               Jewish children                       1,926
25.8.41      Obeliai           112 Jews, 627 Jewesses, 421
                               Jewish children                       1,160
25-26.8.41   Seduva            230 Jews, 275 Jewesses, 159
                               Jewish children                       664
26.8.41      Zarasai           767 Jews, 1,113 Jewesses, 1 Lith.
                               Comm., 687 Jewish children, 1 Russ.
                               Comm. (f.)                            2,569
28.8.41      Pasvalys          402 Jews, 738 Jewesses, 209
                               Jewish children                       1,349
26.8.41      Kaisiadorys       All Jews, Jewesses, and Jewish
                               children                              1,911
27.8.41      Prienai           All Jews, Jewesses, and Jewish
                               Children                              1,078
27.8.41      Dagda and         212 Jews, 4 Russ. POW's               216
             Kraslawa
27.8.41      Joniskia          47 Jews, 165 Jewesses, 143
                               Jewish children                       355
28.8.41      Wilkia            76 Jews, 192 Jewesses, 134
                               Jewish children                       402
28.8.41      Kedainiai         710 Jews, 767 Jewesses, 599
                               Jewish children                       2,076
29.8.41      Rumsiskis and     20 Jews, 567 Jewesses, 197
             Ziezmariai        Jewish children                       784
29.8.41      Utena and         582 Jews, 1,731 Jewesses, 1,469
             Moletai           Jewish children                       3,782
13-31.8.41   Alytus and
             environs          233 Jews                              233

1.9.41       Mariampole        1,763 Jews, 1,812 Jewesses, 1,404
                               Jewish children, 109 mentally sick,
                               1 German subject (f.), married to a
                               Jew, 1 Russian (f.)                   5090

                                      Total carried over           47,814


Sheet 4
                                      Total carried over           47,814

28.8-2.9.41  Darsuniskis       10 Jews, 69 Jewesses, 20
                               Jewish children                       99
             Carliava          73 Jews, 113 Jewesses, 61
                               Jewish children                       247
             Jonava            112 Jews, 1,200 Jewesses, 244
                               Jewish children                       1,556
             Petrasiunai       30 Jews, 72 Jewesses, 23
                               Jewish children                       125
             Jesuas            26 Jews, 72 Jewesses, 46
                               Jewish children                       144
             Agriogala          207 Jews, 260 Jewesses, 195
                               Jewish children                       662
             Jasvainai         86 Jews, 110 Jewesses, 86
                               Jewish children                       282
             Babtei            20 Jews, 41 Jewesses, 22
                               Jewish children                       83
             Wendziogala        42 Jews, 113 Jewesses, 97
                               Jewish children                       252
             Krakes            448 Jews, 476 Jewesses, 97
                               Jewish children                       1,125
4.9.41       Pravenischkis     247 Jews, 6 Jewesses                  253
             Cekiske           22 Jews, 64 Jewesses, 60
                               Jewish children                       146
             Seredsius         6 Jews, 61 Jewesses, 126
                               Jewish children                       193
             Velinona          2 Jews, 71 Jewesses, 86
                               Jewish children                       159
             Zapiskis          47 Jews, 118 Jewesses, 13
                               Jewish children                       178
5.9.41       Ukmerge           1,123 Jews, 1,849 Jewesses, 1,737
                               Jewish children                       4,709
25.8-6.9.41  Mopping up in:    16 Jews, 412 Jewesses, 415
             Rasainiai         Jewish children                       843
             Georgenburg       all Jews, all Jewesses, all
                               Jewish children                       412
9.9.41       Alytus            287 Jews, 640 Jewesses, 352
                               Jewish children                       1,279
9.9.41       Butrimonys        67 Jews, 370 Jewesses, 303
                               Jewish children                       740
10.9.41      Merkine           223 Jews, 640 Jewesses, 276
                               Jewish children                       854
10.9.41      Varena            541 Jews, 141 Jewesses, 149
                               Jewish children                       831
11.9.41      Leipalingis       60 Jews, 70 Jewesses, 25
                               Jewish children                       155
11.9.41      Seirijai          229 Jews, 384 Jewesses, 340
                               Jewish children                       953
12.9.41      Simnas            68 Jews, 197 Jewesses, 149
                               Jewish children                       414
11-12.9.41   Uzusalis          Reprisal against inhabitants who
                               fed Russ. partisans; some in
                               possession of weapons                  43
26.9.41      Kauen-F.IV        412 Jews, 615 Jewesses, 581
                               Jewish children (sick and
                               suspected epidemic cases)             1,608

                                      Total carries over           66,159


Sheet 5
                                      Total carried over           66,159

2.10.41      Zagare            633 Jews, 1,107 Jewesses, 496
                               Jewish children (as these Jews were
                               being led away a mutiny rose, which
                               was however immediately put down;
                               150 Jews were shot immediately; 7
                               partisans wounded)                    2,236
4.10.41      Kauen-F.IX        315 Jews, 712 Jewesses, 818
                               Jewish children (reprisal after
                               German police officer shot in ghetto) 1,845
29.10.41     Kauen-F.IX        2,007 Jews, 2,920 Jewesses, 4,273
                               Jewish children (mopping up ghetto
                               of superfluous Jews)                  9,200
3.11.41      Lazdijai          485 Jews, 511 Jewesses, 539
                               Jewish children                       1,535
15.11.41     Wilkowiski        36 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 31
                               Jewish children                       115
25.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        1,159 Jews, 1,600 Jewesses, 175
                               Jewish children (resettlers from
                               Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt am main) 2,934
29.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        693 Jews, 1,155 Jewesses, 152
                               Jewish children (resettlers from
                               from Vienna and Breslau)              2,000
29.11.41     Kauen-F.IX        17 Jews, 1 Jewess, for contravention
                               of ghetto law, 1 Reichs German who
                               converted to the Jewish faith and
                               attended rabbinical school, then 15
                               terrorists from the Kalinin group     34

EK 3 detachment in Dunanburg
in the period 13.7-21.8.41:    9,012 Jews, Jewesses and Jewish
                               children, 573 active Comm.            9,585

EK 3 detachment in Wilna:
12.8-1.9.41  City of Wilna     425 Jews, 19 Jewesses, 8 Comm. (m.),
                               9 Comm. (f.)                          461
2.9.41       City of Wilna     864 Jews, 2,019 Jewesses, 817
                               Jewish children (sonderaktion because
                               German soldiers shot at by Jews)      3,700

                                      Total carried forward        99,084


sheet 6

                                      Total carried forward        99,804

12.9.41      City of Wilna     993 Jews, 1,670 Jewesses, 771
                               Jewish children                       3,334
17.9.41      City of Wilna     337 Jews, 687 Jewesses, 247
                               Jewish children and 4 Lith. Comm.     1,271
20.9.41      Nemencing         128 Jews, 176 Jewesses, 99
                               Jewish children                       403
22.9.41      Novo-Wilejka      468 Jews, 495 Jewesses, 196
                               Jewish children                       1,159
24.9.41      Riess             512 Jews, 744 Jewesses, 511
                               Jewish children                       1,767
25.9.41      Jahiunai          215 Jews, 229 Jewesses, 131
                               Jewish children                       575
27.9.41      Eysisky           989 Jews, 1,636 Jewesses, 821
                               Jewish children                       3,446
30.9.41      Trakai            366 Jews, 483 Jewesses, 597
                               Jewish children                       1,446
4.10.41      City of Wilna     432 Jews, 1,115 Jewesses, 436
                               Jewish children                       1,983
6.10.41      Semiliski         213 Jews, 359 Jewesses, 390
                               Jewish children                       962
9.10.41      Svenciany         1,169 Jews, 1,840 Jewesses, 717
                               Jewish children                       3,726
16.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 507 Jewesses, 257
                               Jewish children                       1,146
21.10.41     City of Wilna     718 Jews, 1,063 Jewesses, 586
                               Jewish children                       2,367
25.10.41     City of Wilna     1,776 Jewesses, 812 Jewish children   2,578
27.10.41     City of Wilna     946 Jews, 184 Jewesses, 73
                               Jewish children                       1,203
30.10.41     City of Wilna     382 Jews, 789 Jewesses, 362
                               Jewish children                       1,553
6.11.41      City of Wilna     340 Jews, 749 Jewesses, 252
                               Jewish children                       1,341
19.11.41     City of Wilna     76 Jews, 77 Jewesses, 18
                               Jewish children                       171
19.11.41     City of Wilna     6 POW's, 8 Poles                      14
20.11.41     City of Wilna     3 POW's                               3
25.11.41     City of Wilna     9 Jews, 46 Jewesses, 8 Jewish
                               children, 1 Pole for possession of arms
                               and other military equipment          64

EK 3 detachment in Minsk from
28.9-17.10.41:

             Pleschnitza       620 Jews, 1,285 Jewesses,
             Bischolin         1,126 Jewish children and 19
             Scak              Comm.
             Bober
             Uzda                                                    3,050
                                                                     --------
                                                                     133,346
Prior to EK 3 taking over security police duties, Jews liquidated
by pogroms and executions (including partisans)                      4,000
                                                                  -----------
                                                             Total 137,346


Today I can confirm that our objective, to solve the Jewish problem for
Lithuania, has been achieved by EK 3. In Lithuania there are no more
Jews, apart from Jewish workers and their families.

 .
 .
 .

The distance between from the assembly point to the graves was on average
4 to 5 Km.

 .
 .
 .

I consider the Jewish action more or less terminated as far as
Einsatzkommando 3 is concerned. Those working Jews and Jewesses still
available are needed urgently and I can envisage that after the winter
this workforce will be required even more urgently. I am of the view
that the sterilization program of the male worker Jews should be
started immediately so that reproduction is prevented. If despite
sterilization a Jewess becomes pregnant she will be liquidated.

 .
 .
 .

(signed) Jager
SS-Standartenfuehrer




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 11:58:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: photographs from Belsen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vblqa$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:43:44 GMT
Lines: 40

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# All photos taken by the British and are the result of the 
# Allies having shut down the supply lines for weeks prior to 
# "liberating" the camp.  

This still doesn't explain why the death rate in the 
"work camps" was often 10 percent per month (!!), long
before the end of the war.

It also doesn't explain how come the death rate for
British and American POW's (for the entire war) was
about 3 percent, while it was so much higher in the
concentration camps.

It also fails to explain why there was plenty of food
for everybody - the guards, the local population, the
German soldiers - but none for the inmates.

It doesn't explain why so many died of thirst. 

In short, Giwer's ridiculous excuses cannot erase
the truth: that these people died because the Nazis
regarded them as "sub-humans".

But, believe it or not, Giwer sometimes uses even more
stupid excuses than this one. See below. It is obvious
that Giwer's desire to whitewash Nazi crimes caused
him to lose the little sanity he may had in the first
place.


-Danny Keren.

 --
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 14:53:03 PDT 1996
Article: 58489 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v1gm2$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v465v$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <4v9ctt$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:43:30 GMT
Lines: 56

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# First you agreed the LK was one large room. You also 
# agreed that I and II were identical.  

Oh, God almighty. Have mercy on us. He claims to have 
an IQ of 163, but he still can't figure this out, after
posting here for a year or so.

Look:

Kremas II & III each had two large underground cellars. 

The ones in Krema II are referred to as cellars I & II
of Krema II.

The ones in Krema III are referred to as cellars I & II
of Krema III.

But cellars I & II were *not* identical. Cellar I was the gas 
chamber, which is why the inventory list shows it had a gas-tight 
door and shower-heads; II was the so-called "undressing room",
which is why it didn't have a gas-tight door and shower-heads.

Ok? Is it *finally* clear?

# You folks NEVER suggested there were showerheads in any 
# of them. 

Which means "I can't recall seeing that on alt.revisionism".

It's a well-known fact. It is mentioned in the testimonies.
They are mentioned in the inventory list. It's on the web.

# You will never explain how ZB got through showerheads.  

It didn't. In these Kremas, the only goal of the shower-heads
was to fool the victims. The Zyklon was inserted via the
wiremesh devices.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 14:53:04 PDT 1996
Article: 58500 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: photographs from Belsen (and Buchenwald)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vblqa$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:33:15 GMT
Lines: 28

PS - look at the photos in 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/                

buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians living nearby,
who were brought by the Allies to witness the horrors
of Buchenwald.

Contrast their appearance to that of the inmates:

buchenwald01.jpg
buchenwald02.jpg
buchenwald03.jpg

This is just one example; it was the same in the other
camps. The many movies taken by the Allies show the
German population, SS-guards, German soldiers all to
be very well-fed.


-Danny Keren.

 --
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 14:53:04 PDT 1996
Article: 58504 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <9bc_9608182117@tor250.org> <4vaqb4$903@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:43:13 GMT
Lines: 22

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

[Nothing worth quoting]

You have failed to explain your claim that using cyanide
gas in the gas chambers would "kill the German soldiers
outside", this, while there are cyanide compounds on the
walls of the gas chambers, proving cyanide gas was indeed
used in them.

Still waiting for your answer. You claim to belong to a 
"superior race". So why can't you answer a simple question?

You're just another little nazi monkey, right?

Where do all these creatures come from? Who forgot to
lock the zoo? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 17:36:00 PDT 1996
Article: 134717 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:02:21 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 17:36:02 PDT 1996
Article: 134718 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 23:00:31 GMT
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 17:36:03 PDT 1996
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 19:34:14 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 17:36:03 PDT 1996
Article: 134774 of control
Control: cancel 
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
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Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
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 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 18:52:06 PDT 1996
Article: 58564 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v4r3a$iv2@Vir.com> <4vck7m$1jh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:48:48 GMT
Lines: 33

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas), a nazi-boy coward who used 
four aliases but never his real name, writes to Nele Abels:

# Your zealotry, my friend, renders you not an educated 
# person or a linguist, but an ordinary fool.

And you, nazi-boy, posted the following not long ago:

# (1)  There are no existant homicidal gassing chambers, there
# are only reconstructions of alleged facilities based on oral 
# testimonies and descriptions, and ruins that are alleged to 
# have been same, save they seem most inadequate for the purpose.

This is an outright lie. Let's hear your explanation, for
instance, as to why the ruins "seem most inadequate for the 
purpose". More so as there are cyanide traces on their walls.

What is really despicable is a lying Nazi coward such as yourself,
who does not even have the integrity to post under his own name,
and who spews Nazi propaganda while painting himself to be some
kind of a great humanist.

You stink, my friend. Or maybe you just suffer from the same
kind of mental illness which, as I recall, you said runs in
your family. Do correct me if I'm wrong; there are a few other
Nazi cowards who post here under an alias. And you are only
four of them, right, "Bob Hunt", "agathist", "DvdThomas",
"dbtgthomas"?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 19:30:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58576 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with German? was Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u84ml$mju@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4vatvc$alf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:07:21 GMT
Lines: 49

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Almost as dumb as giving credibility to "gassing evidence" 
# presented by the Allies.  

Shrug. Let's start with the following. It was given by
a German testifying in a German court. One of many.

 From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
--------------------------------------------------------------
At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered
me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it
trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

   * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz



# By definition the Germans were being tried by its enemies.

Not really, nazi-boy.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 22:43:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58584 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Burning Corpses: More 'Revisionist' Rubbish
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 00:01:30 GMT
Lines: 26

A common "argument" by "revisionists" is that it is impossible
to burn many corpses in the manner described by witnesses from
the death camps.

One may look at the following photograph:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/
images/dresden-pyre-01.jpg

It shows a huge pyre of corpses about to be set on fire. 
This photograph was taken in Dresden, and the corpses are 
of Germans who died in the bombing of the city.

Note the striking similarity to the descriptions of mass
burning of corpses in Treblinka and other places; I would
not be surprised to learn that SS "experts" on this matter
were consulted. but, do not forget, our "revisionists" told 
us that it's "physically impossible" to burn corpses that way!

It appears, folks, that the nazi-boys will now have to claim
that Dresden's bombing is a "hoax"...


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 22:43:16 PDT 1996
Article: 58585 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!blanket.mitre.org!news.tufts.edu!nntp.uac.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vd55f$7st@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vdanq$122@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 01:45:43 GMT
Lines: 13

Kurt Stele (kurtstele@aol.com) wrote:

# you holohuggers sure dedicate a lot of time and
# bandwidth to someone who supposedly is "a zero, a         
# nothing, a miserable failure, and an imbecile."

Because, in spite of all this, he is still the most
active and most smart "revisionist" on the net.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 20 22:43:16 PDT 1996
Article: 58595 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <6$P5oOev109N065yn@login.dknet.dk> <3218666d.328313619@news.inetport.com> <4vb6hv$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:38:31 GMT
Lines: 56

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# We have all been looking for some Nazi government document
# indicating a state policy of extermination for years.  

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.




-Danny Keren.

 --
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 07:07:11 PDT 1996
Article: 58619 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There's no business like Shoah business
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd61l$8eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:14:12 GMT
Lines: 16

Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949.p. 717]
----------------------------------------------------------------
When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick
out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, 
old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria 
at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas
chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz.

 .
 .
 .

I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, 
although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 07:07:12 PDT 1996
Article: 58640 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!trellis.wwnet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There's no business like Shoah business
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd61l$8eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:13:55 GMT
Lines: 47

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
gas chambers...

Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
in their jewellery and valuables..


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 07:07:13 PDT 1996
Article: 58679 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There's no business like Shoah business
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd61l$8eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:15:02 GMT
Lines: 16


Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 09:27:18 PDT 1996
Article: 58696 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v8skk$gvj@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vaqbb$907@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:50:45 GMT
Lines: 41

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# How does the fact that they -were- transported help you?  

Because it shows that your argument "they wouldn't have
wasted resources in transporting them" is false.

You claim the Jews from France and Holland were sent to
work camps? Fine. Name the camps. Let's start with that.

Why didn't they build these "work camps" nearby?

# but if the nazis wanted to exterminate the jews they could 
# just lined up -ONE- machine gun all day and night and finished 
# the job.  Or a few bombs.

I tried to explain it simple enough for an untermench like
you to understand. It was important to keep the murder
operation secret, because when the truth leaked out,
the Jews resisted the deportations, and staged a few
rebellions, most notably in the Warsaw Ghetto, which
caused the Nazis a major pain; they had to divert 
substantial military resources to crush it.

What's so hard to understand about that, nazi-boy?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 09:27:19 PDT 1996
Article: 58711 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v8toq$hcr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vbfnb$jof@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:10:48 GMT
Lines: 16

Andrew Allen ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) writes:

# Danny (ain't no roof there) Keren 

I never said there was no roof, untermench. Only that it
was severely damaged.

# Pressac has a picture of a manhole which is not even on 
# the roof.  

That's a different photo, untermench.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 11:38:48 PDT 1996
Article: 58722 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vagfr$q4e@access5.digex.net> <4vbslc$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:07:09 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You are the mathematician.  You first.  I am only a lowly 
# four year degree physicist.  Why should I go first?
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Because you have an IQ of 163?

Ok, since you insist. But fair is fair, and I expect
you to post your calculation too.

10 ppm = 11 mg/m^3

300 ppm = 330 mg/m^3 (causes immediate death).

Multiply by volume of largest gas chamber:

(330 mg)*500 = 165 grams.

Multiply by a factor of 3 for gross weight of Zyklon:

165*3 aprrox. half of a Kg.

At least 1/6 evaporates in the first 10 minutes (this is
a definite lower bound), so multiply the (half of a Kg) 
by 6 to get 3 Kg.

To achieve quicker death, they could have used, say,
8 Kg, that's 2 Kg per person. You're still claiming they
couldn't carry such an amount up the ladder?


-Danny Keren.

 --
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 11:38:49 PDT 1996
Article: 58736 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.mindspring.com!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!metro.atlanta.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4v97tu$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vbq4u$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:57:18 GMT
Lines: 32

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)

## Who told you it didn't have lights?

# All of you folks did from your descriptions of it.  

Examples?

# Are you now saying that it did have lights?  Please be 
# specific in your answer.  

Yes, it did have lights.

Now, being a 163-IQ brilliant retired-at-46-for-obvious-reasons
engineer that you are, you will probably claim "how come
the victims didn't break the lights?".

So here's a question for you: could WW2 Germany, a country
that built jet planes, rockets, and submarines, also build
a little protective grid around the lights? Think hard,
Giwer. Think *really* hard.


-Danny Keren.

 --
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 14:37:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58760 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from NORDHAUSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:48:28 GMT
Lines: 9

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images/

Files:

nordhausen-01.jpg and nordhausen02.jpg


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 16:05:38 PDT 1996
Article: 58770 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:   <4vbpce$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 23:35:48 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

# Why would I claim I did not write this?

Because on August 14 you called me "Jewboy", and two
days later denied ever having used that expression.

It's all there on dejanews. Or do you plan to try and
shut them down also? Some advocate of free speech
you are, slime bucket.

You rotting piece of senile dreck. You can't even
remember what you posted, after two days?

It's a miracle that you managed to stay employed till
you were 46. A true miracle, which shows that there
are good-hearted and kind people in this country, or,
well, maybe just masochists.


-Danny Keren.

 --
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 17:13:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58797 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from MAIDANEK Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:50:31 GMT
Lines: 5

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 17:13:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58799 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There's no business like Shoah business
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd61l$8eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:14:30 GMT
Lines: 18

Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
prevent the spread of diseases... After undressing, the Jews
were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians...After
the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
and the corpses removed....


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 17:13:10 PDT 1996
Article: 58800 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Keren's fast one exposed
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd6bu$8ks@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:30:16 GMT
Lines: 44

Nazi coward "kurt stele" writes:

[yak-yak-yak]

You know what, nazi-boy, I'll make a deal with you.

I'll respond to your article after you:

1) Explain your claim that the Nazi gas chambers could
   not be used for killing people, and that using cyanide
   gas in them would "kill the German soldiers standing
   outside". Be sure, if you choose this option, to explain
   the fact that there are cyanide compounds on their walls.

Or -

2) Admit that you lied about this matter.

Fair is fair, nazi-boy. Show some Aryan honesty. I've been
asking you to respond to this matter for a week or so,
and you failed. Once you do, repost your article and I
promise to respond to each and every point.

For the honor of your fuehrer, respond. Don't be a bloody
coward. There's nothing more disgusting and revolting
than a little nazi pig who's also a damned coward. Really,
you make me vomit. I'm serious.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 18:48:36 PDT 1996
Article: 58814 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!netcom.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer & Einstein
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 05:26:31 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# You have obviously never heard of orders of infinity.  
# But then it was only broght to the attention of the world 
# some 80 years ago by Einstein. 

So, 163-IQ'ed one? You're still claiming it was Einstein?

I know this is off topic for the group, but I was just
wondering, is there *any* topic whatsoever in the
universe on which you know something?

If you put 10,000 Giwers on keyboards for 10,000
years, will any of them write something that makes
sense? Personally, I think you will need aleph_sub_one
years for that to happen.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 18:48:37 PDT 1996
Article: 58821 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v1gm2$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vbla8$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4ve8ae$llp@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:49:38 GMT
Lines: 47

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# How can a cellar be in plain view on an aerial photo?

You can see its boundaries. You can go to Auschwitz and see
that the cellars are still there.

Listen, this is simply too much. As I said, there is not
even a "revisionist" crazy and stupid enough to deny that
each of these Kremas (II & III) had two large underground
cellars. Enough is enough.

# The Keller in Leichenkeller is misleading, remember?

Keller means cellar. It is not misleading. Enough is enough.

## There were gas chambers in Germany, BTW.

# Tell it to Wiesel and Wiesenthal.  When you have their 
# agreement, get back to me.  At the moment, they agree with
# me, not you.  

No. Wiesenthal said that the extermination camps were
not in Germany but in Nazi-occupied Poland. But some of
the German camps also had homicidal gas chambers. However,
these camps (Mauthausen, Neuengamme, Natzweiler and
others) are usually not classified as extermination
camps, because there was far less killing in them 
than in the camps in Poland. In some of these gas chambers,
"only" a few hundred people were murdered.

The "Institute for Contemporary History", for instance,
also classifies these camps as "concentration camps", in
its summary which details the gas chambers in them.

Enough is enough, Giwer.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 19:18:11 PDT 1996
Article: 58829 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:32:03 GMT
Lines: 35


The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
       
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/

Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
             and Belsen). 

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:

Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
              corpses in Belsen.

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/

Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 21 20:35:58 PDT 1996
Article: 58842 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vc5rp$i7h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vfcss$6mi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:31:44 GMT
Lines: 29

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

[A terribly long and boring article] 

You have failed to explain your claim that using cyanide
gas in the gas chambers would "kill the German soldiers
outside", this, while there are cyanide compounds on the
walls of the gas chambers, proving cyanide gas was indeed
used in them.

Still waiting for your answer. You claim to belong to a 
"superior race". So why can't you answer a simple question?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 06:45:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58856 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!marine.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Photographs from BELSEN Camp
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <3218DCFA.849@rio.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:09:22 GMT
Lines: 17

Chuck Ferree  writes:

# Take a look you deniers, and I hope you never get a good
# nights sleep ever again. 

Chuck, they *enjoy* watching these pictures. They may start
an alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.nazi newsgroup, and wet
their underwear over such pictures.

# Thanks, Danny. Your work is very much appreciated.

Thank you.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 06:45:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58860 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!marine.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v1gm2$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v9ctt$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vbla8$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 18:32:14 GMT
Lines: 60

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Your creation is far from clear.  Which of your two 
# non-"cellars" are the aerial photos of?  

If you were not mentally retarded, you would see them
by now. They are right there in the photo.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Krema3.jpg

Did you really graduate from a university 30 years ago?
How come? I've never seen an idiot like you, in any
university I've ever been at. 

# They are not underground, they are not cellars.

Yes they are, and their remains are still there today.

Look, there is not even a fellow "revisionist" of yours
who is making such idiotic claims as you are. Have you
totally flipped?

All the other nazi-boys agree that there were two such
large underground cellars. None of them is stupid and
crazy enough to deny it. Only you.

# (Do not forget your folks have already insisted that 
# Leikenkellar means morgue not that it is a cellar, in 
# english that is.)  

It's "keller", you imbecile, and it means "cellar" in German,
as you could have guessed were you not a stupid monkey.

## It's a well-known fact. It is mentioned in the testimonies.
## They are mentioned in the inventory list. It's on the web.

# Only at the ones in Germany which were not gas chambers as
# you well know.  

No, you damned senile ape. I'm talking about testimonies
and inventory list for Auschwitz.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Invntry.jpg

There were gas chambers in Germany, BTW.

You're a senile piece of rotting dreck. It's amazing that there
was someone kind enough to employ a monkey like you till you
were 46 years old. You're the most stupid piece of trash I saw 
in my life. 


-Danny Keren.

In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 06:45:16 PDT 1996
Article: 58863 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Proves His Ignorance
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:16:17 GMT
Lines: 55

Yet again, our 163-IQ'ed "leading revisionist", Matt Giwer,
proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.

# There is none from a diesel engine.  Even you
# should know that.  

"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).

## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

# Not a diesel.  

Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong 
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is 
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios 
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the 
exhaust.

Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.

Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about.

The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 06:45:17 PDT 1996
Article: 58885 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!news.clark.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4v409g$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4veac6$3r2@access5.digex.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:39:25 GMT
Lines: 33

mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:

[To Matt Giwer]

# Dr. Keren gave you an example of Bayesian methods working 
# (as did Alec earlier).  You said you could not understand 
# why it was still used, implying you think it can't work.

Giwer's more than stupid. It's more complicated. Your
ordinary stupid guy would get something right here and
there. Giwer *always* gets it wrong. Somebody crossed
the wires over there.

Giwer has no idea what Bayesian analysis means. His only
comment was that it uses an "assume that it happened"
principle. This has nothing to do with reality; he's
trying to prove that I "assume the Holocaust happened".

He can't handle arithmetic, and he tries to criticize 
concepts of higher mathematics which he simply cannot
comprehend. This is like me telling the Chicago Bulls
they should take me instead of Michael Jordan.

And then Giwer topped it off by claiming that Einstein
introduced the notion of different orders of infinity. It
just cracked me up. His work was not even related to
set theory. It was George Cantor who first defined and
studied these concepts, not Einstein.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 09:13:14 PDT 1996
Article: 134980 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:24:49 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 09:19:23 PDT 1996
Article: 58900 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.inet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!zdc-e!zdc!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!insync!uuneo.neosoft.com!news.sesqui.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: DvdThomas: The HUMANE Nazi (Re:   Wieder mit dem)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ve2jj$mkr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:14:03 GMT
Lines: 38

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# Daniel, all I can say is that I'm blessed not to have my mind 
# infested with the poison you're cultivating in your own.  

You're a good and noble man, ain't you.

# No matter how much I may disagree with your utterances, I'd 
# never stoop to this level.  

No, you're more into spitting on graves and mocking the
memory of innocent victims of Nazism. But you'll never
insult anyone, right?

Like your "jokes" about Stark's testimony on how he killed
such innocent people in Auschwitz. All in good taste and
in the spirit of humanism and love.

And you preach tolerance to us? You damned lying hypocrite. 
You're worse than scum like Giwer and "kurt stele" who, at 
least, don't play this game.

And you're also a bloody coward who can't even post
under his own name.

Now cut the empty rhetoric and justify your claim that
the remains of the Birkenau gas chambers suggest that
they were not suitable for mass gassing. Please explain
how all these cyanide traces got there. Go ahead. I'm
giving you a chance to prove you're not a lying Nazi 
bastard. Go for it, coward.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 13:15:22 PDT 1996
Article: 58944 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Clergymen in Dachau
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 05:41:24 GMT
Lines: 42

Clergymen in Dachau classified according to nationality 
and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of 
Polish priests who were murdered in the camp.

Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", 
ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. 

Nationality      Total   Released   Transferred  Liberated   Deaths
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Albanian           2         -           2            -         -
Belgian           46         1           3           33         9
Danish             5         5           -            -         -
German           447       208         100           45        94
English            2         -           1            1         -
French           156         5           4          137        10
Greek              2         -           -            2         -
Dutch             63        10           -           36        17
Italian           28         -           1           26         1
Lithuanian         3         -           -            3         -
Luxemburg         16         2           -            8         6
Norwegian          1         1           -            -         -
Polish          1780        78           4          830       868
Rumanian           1         -           -            1         -
Jugoslavian       50         2           6           38         4
Spanish            1         -           -            1         -        
Swiss              2         1           -            -         1
Czechoslovakian  109         1          10           74        24
Hungarian          3         -           -            3         - 
Stateless          3         -           1            2         -


Roman Catholic               2579
Protestant                   109
Greek Orthodox                22
Old Catholic and Maronite      8
Mohammedan                     2




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 15:42:17 PDT 1996
Article: 58950 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with German? was Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u84ml$mju@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4vatvc$alf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4vg81k$76s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:11:57 GMT
Lines: 18

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Interesting time frames also.  A few minutes to death and 
# ten to fifteen minutes before the doors are opened.  Would 
# you not consider that rather dangerous when it means that 
# 80% of the gas has not been released?   

1) The 80% figure is false.

2) There were no special problems in ventilating room with
   HCN in them. This was done routinely. Moreover, HCN was
   used in that gas chamber, as the cyanide compounds on
   its walls prove.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 15:42:18 PDT 1996
Article: 58953 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: photographs from Belsen
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vblqa$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vgao6$76s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:20:57 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# That last time you brought this up I asked after the 
# Russian POWs and you declined to answer.  Would you 
# answer this time? 

The death rate for them was about 50 percent. The Soviet
POW's were, in fact, subjected to a genocide which in many
aspects was similar to the Nazi genocide of the Jews.

# The last time I reminding you of the pumping station 
# having been shut down by Allied attacks you said that the 
# Brits fixed it immediately. I asked you for evidence to 
# that effect that specifically stated they used parts that 
# were available to the people who ran the camp.  

It's mentioned in "The Belsen Trial".

Look at the photos in 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/                

buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians living nearby,
who were brought by the Allies to witness the horrors
of Buchenwald.

Contrast their appearance to that of the inmates:

buchenwald01.jpg
buchenwald02.jpg
buchenwald03.jpg

This is just one example; it was the same in the other
camps. The many movies taken by the Allies show the
German population, SS-guards, German soldiers all to
be very well-fed.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 18:00:54 PDT 1996
Article: 58964 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Anti-anti-semitism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vg5p3$fof@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:55:34 GMT
Lines: 28

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# "Those Jews who still want to be the chosen Race can go
# to Palestine and stew in their own juice. The rest had better 
# stop being Jews and start being human beings."
#
# George Bernard Shaw (Literary Digest, October 2, 1932)

This quote was allegedly made when he was 76. Can someone
check it? My guess is that it is a forgery, like the
antisemitic remark often attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

Nazi-boy here also claimed that the Talmud "tells how to 
have sex with dogs". Has he documented that? No. He
probably pulled it from some old copy of "Der Stuermer",
that fine Nazi rag. Its editor, BTW, was hanged. And it
served him right.

As every day passes, this miserable little Nazi coward
gets more and more entangled in his own lies and absurdities.

But what can you expect. He's a "Holocaust revisionist",
after all.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 18:00:55 PDT 1996
Article: 58965 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vgrih$pfs@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:31:47 GMT
Lines: 36

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Mass shooting takes -more- soldiers than gassing? 

Yes. One person, or two, each with two 1 Kg cans of Zyklon,
can kill 2,000 people in 15 minutes or so. 

Very cheap. Very simple. Saves a lot of ammunition, which
is something you want to save during a war. 

People can't start running away, as they are locked inside
the chamber. That's another advantage.

You don't have to walk around afterwards and shoot those
who were only wounded, or missed, by the initial firing 
(as was done). That's another advantage.

# you're holohoax is -definitely- bullshit
  ^^^^^^

That's "your", unter. And...

You still haven't replied to your claim that the gassing
"would have killed the German soldiers outside", a claim
especially idiotic as there are cyanide traces on the walls
of the gas chambers, proving cyanide gas was indeed used
in them. We're still waiting for you to respond. 

You claimed to belong to a superior race. Yet you can't
even back up your claims. You're not superior. You're an
untermench.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 18:00:55 PDT 1996
Article: 58966 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <123_9608221018@tor250.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:38:43 GMT
Lines: 29

alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) writes:

# DK> And then Giwer topped it off by claiming that Einstein
# DK> introduced the notion of different orders of infinity. It
# DK> just cracked me up. His work was not even related to
# DK> set theory. It was George Cantor who first defined and
# DK> studied these concepts, not Einstein.
#
# Arrgggghhhh!!!
#
# You had to go and tell him!
#
# A good string-along and you blow it so fast!
#
# That one was good for at least 2 weeks!

Wait, Alec. The Giwer may, of course, fear the possibility
that it wasn't *really* Cantor, and that I'm just making
fun of him. So it ain't over yet.

Moreover, if they claim McFee = McVay, they can also claim
Einstein = Cantor. There is much yet to be explored here.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 18:00:56 PDT 1996
Article: 58968 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vbfnb$jof@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ve238$mao@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:35:19 GMT
Lines: 43

Andrew Allen, using the ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) alias, writes:
# (Daniel Keren wrote on19 Aug 1996

#    [snip Keren garbage.  also note the
#     vile anti-Working class attitude for someone 
#     who gibbers so much about NAZIs.  ]

I didn't write anything "anti-Working class". I explicitly
and clearly wrote that the large majority of construction
workers are far smarter than Bradley Smith. No offense
to construction workers was intended. Moreover, I brought
this topic up only because construction matters were
being discussed.

# Anyway, I worked as a construction laborer(even _more_ menial
# that Mr. Bradley Smith). Smith was in construction too.

It's a pity that you two didn't remain construction
workers. At least, you were doing something useful
(assuming you didn't do any more than howling bricks
around, I don't believe you're capable of a more
complicated task).

## For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
## Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

#  Gibbering Dan, you're a stupid goofball and as confused as
# to what the Revisionist position is (capital R, please) 

So why did you delete what Kurt Stele wrote? Namely, that
the Holocaust didn't happen but that he wished it did?

# as you are about the present condition of Leichenkeller 1.

I am not confused one bit. Now, you'll lie again and
claim that I wrote that the roof is not there, won't you?

BTW, where does this "Ceacaa" come from? Is it in tribute
to Seka?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 19:42:38 PDT 1996
Article: 58993 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.thenet.net!trellis.wwnet.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There's no business like Shoah business
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd61l$8eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:14:48 GMT
Lines: 17

Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
any escape.


From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 22 21:40:07 PDT 1996
Article: 59006 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Did this guy know what he was doing?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vg772$76s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:09:31 GMT
Lines: 26

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Then around the 36th entry he realizes what he has been 
# missing and thinks to himself, "where in the hell are
# the kids."  At that point he starts killing off the kids.

See the following entry:

# 15-16.8.41   Rokiskis  3,200 Jews, Jewesses, and J. Children,
#              5 Lith. Comm., 1 Pole, 1 partisan     3207

Giwer, of course, took care not to mention this entry.

It seems the further breakdown into the three categories
of men, women, and children, began only at this stage. Up
to that date, the children may have been counted together 
with the rest.

However, the book "'The Good Old Days'", does mention cases
in which children were deported separately from the local
Ghettos and then murdered.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 06:27:20 PDT 1996
Article: 59030 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4veh49$e3o@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <4vfq5r$bfi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 03:29:37 GMT
Lines: 37

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# yeah, nobody had a problem with David Irving's "scholarship" 
# until he exposed the Holohoax.

That, untermench, is an outright lie.

Irving was taken to court in 1972 or so for libel in his
book about the PQ17 convoy, and had to pay 40,000 Pounds
in damages. His supporters claim that "newly released
documents" prove that what he wrote was true, but I've
seen no proof of that.

This was, of course, long before he became a "revisionist".

That's one example.

And, for the record, Irving hardly classifies as a "revisionist",
after his recent statements that the Nazis killed 4 million Jews. 
This is lower than the real figure but it puts him out of the 
"revisionist" community.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 11:38:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59099 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DvdThomas: The HUMANE Nazi (Re:   Wieder mit dem)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vi7f1$8qh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 00:36:14 GMT
Lines: 36

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:
# Dan Keren wrote:

## I'm giving you a chance to prove you're not a lying 
## Nazi bastard. Go for it, coward.

# I will not respond to this kind of abusive trash posted
# by Mr. Keren or anyone else.

You will not respond because you're a lying coward.

You cannot support your lies about the Auschwitz-Birkenau
gas chambers.

Oh, but I forgot. CODOH, after all, only wants to *promote*
"open debate on the Holocaust". But it doesn't want to
actually *debate*, ain't that right?

Re "abusive trash", no trash is more abusive than the
habit of spitting on graves and mocking the memory of
the innocent victims of Nazism.

Although you have never used foul language, you are no
better than Giwer, "kurt stele", or any other rabid
hate-mongering racist out there.

You can feel very sorry for the tragedy your mother went
through, you just don't give a damn about the suffering
of millions of other innocent victims.

Go to hell.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 11:38:04 PDT 1996
Article: 59118 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vd5v0$8cc@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 03:12:27 GMT
Lines: 42

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# In fact the hard evidence and administrative documentation
# we -do- have from the nazis contradicts that the nazis were
# deliberately trying to "exterminate" the jews.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/
images/report-51.jpg

A report to Hitler, mentions that over 360,000 Jews
were executed during August-November 1942.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/
images/wetzel-lohse-01.jpg and images/wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Letter from Dr. Wetzel to Lohse, about the plan to kill
with poison gas Jews "unfit for work".

There is a lot more "administrative documentation"
of this type.

You want to try something else? Like claiming that all
the Jews escaped on Zundel's UFO's to the South Pole?
That would make more sense than what you have suggested
so far.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 15:10:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59162 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: HItler and Stalin
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <321A7664.1802@haven.ios.com> <4vgho7$kqi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:18:51 GMT
Lines: 29

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# In Stalin's case his secret police, as well as the Soviet
# leadership itself, was overwhelmingly jewish.  Most notable
# among the NKVD for ruthlessness and sadism were Lavrenti      
# Beria and Yagoda.

More lies from the untermench. Beria was not Jewish.

The untermench has reached a more-or-less stable conduct
of posting 3 new outright lies per day, in addition to
repeating his older lies.

                                                  
-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 15:11:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59172 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vc5rp$i7h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vfcss$6mi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:41:32 GMT
Lines: 33

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# You yourself admitted German soldiers were at a scarcity.

Gassing large groups of people requires far less soldiers
and ammunition than shooting them, untermench.

Moreover, you have again shot yourself at the foot. When
the Jews learned of what awaited them, they rebelled (as
in Bialistok and the Warsaw Ghetto). This forced the Nazis 
to allocate many soldiers and military equipment to crush
the rebellion. Thus, the need to keep the murders a secret,
and not, as you and the other Nazi imbecile suggest, shoot
the Jews down in the streets.

You claim to belong to a superior race. Why, then, are you
so stupid? Why are you such a coward?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 15:11:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59175 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v0rv5$dab@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v3601$5u9@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 1996 20:53:45 GMT
Lines: 28

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# You're saying that shipping prisoners across the European
# continent by train, 

You must have serious reading problems. It was explained to
you, a few times, that the large majority of the victims
were Polish and Soviet Jews, who were not transported over
large distances. 

A very simple reason for not shooting, say, the Greek and
French Jews right there where they lived, was because
the Nazis tried to keep the operation secret. When the
Jews found out that they were being sent to their death,
they rebelled (as in Warsaw). Shooting huge numbers of
Jews in the streets of Paris would have alerted the
others of the Nazis' plans.

# during a war, to tag them, house them, and then gas them, 

Can't you read? It was explained to you that those gassed
upon arrival - the very large majority - were not tagged
nor housed, but killed immediately.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 19:19:47 PDT 1996
Article: 59229 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer And His Son
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:31:59 GMT
Lines: 30

Why did Giwer post this? Is most certainly looks like
a death threat to me.

I wrote to Matt Giwer:

## I only pray that your children (if you have any) are
## better than you.

To which he responded:

 From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
 Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 05:40:17 GMT
 Organization: images incarnate

# I do not have to pray, I know.  His shooting skills simply
# are not as good as mine as yet.  It is just a matter of time.  
# He is also slower to anger than I, perhaps due to his weighing 
# near 300 lbs and built like Alley Oop.  But then, it is the 
# dark alley of your oop.  

I would appreciate the address of the Tampa, Florida police
and/or a relevant FBI address to contact about this (I think
that Giwer posted that he lives in Tampa). I will be sure to
mention other threats that he made.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 21:26:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59245 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk>  <4vithj$nr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:51:58 GMT
Lines: 10

I wrote:

# The Just-to-Becker letter mentions

Sorry - I was referring, of course, to the letter from
Just to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Walter Rauff.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 21:26:04 PDT 1996
Article: 59268 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vl328$8hj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 02:44:13 GMT
Lines: 39

Andrew Allen, using the ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) 
alias, writes:

# Daniel Keren wrote 21 Aug 1996:

## So why did you delete what Kurt Stele wrote? 

# The same reason I snip most of what you write, ie.
# I snip irrelevant garbage.

You're calling what a fellow "revisionist" of yours
wrote "irrelevant garbage"? Is this the "night of
the long knives" all over again? I swear by Shitler's
crushed balls, this is almost as good as the fight
for the control of the IHR, when Carto, Raven and
other "leading revisionist scholars" beat the crap
out of each other. Were you there BTW?

# But let's clear the record: do you think the roof 
# of Leichenkeller 1 Crema II "is there" and, if so 
# how much? 

I can only judge from photographs, till I get there
myself. A great part is obviously collapsed and
destroyed. I can only refer to the photographs in
Pressac's book and elsewhere for further details.

## BTW, where does this "Ceacaa" come from? Is it 
## in tribute to Seka?

# Seka?  The movie star/dancer?

The porn star. You know her? If not, what inspired
the "Ceacaa" alias?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 23 21:26:05 PDT 1996
Article: 59270 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A now a word from Adolf
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <321c901a.6325336@news.spry.com> <4vima1$e1k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 02:34:36 GMT
Lines: 25

The real question is: have ZOG agents captured poor
old "kurt stele", and squeezed his balls, forcing him
to prove in his articles that "revisionists" are 
stupid, lying Nazi scum?

See below. How much squeezing did it take to make him
post that one?

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:14 PDT 1996
Article: 59305 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DvdThomas: The HUMANE Nazi (Re:   Wieder mit dem)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vi7f1$8qh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vjni2$qoj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:51:48 GMT
Lines: 33

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Keren, I'm not in the least conceding your Holocaust tale 
# but nearly every people has experienced mass death at one 
# time or another:  the Irish, the Russians, the Armenians, 
# the Cambodians, the Afghanistanis, and yes the Germans.

According to "revisionist" standards you are lying, as you
cannot supply the physical and documentary evidence to these
alleged mass deaths which "revisionists" demand be presented
as proofs to the Holocaust.

You can start by showing us the corpses. That's a routine
argument used by Holocaust-deniers: "where are the corpses"?
So, fair is fair: show us the corpses these alleged mass
deaths produced. I really think that's a fair request.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:15 PDT 1996
Article: 59329 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4vb6hv$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4ve458$llp@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:12:35 GMT
Lines: 38


Yep, Giwer's done it again.

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, 
## October 25, 1941 [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, 
## University of California Press, 1984, p. 70]

# This is an excellent example of a spurious document, clearly
# manufactured.  

He-he. See Giwer's "reasoning" below.

# Note the date.  

Noted. October 25, 1941.

# Note that Treblinka was already in operation at the time and 
# doing quite well according to the currently approved dogma.  

Sorry, Matty-poo. Treblinka began operating on July 1942.

# Note further that IF referring to ZB THEN where did he get the 
# idea that there were special hazards 

He's not. He's talking about the "gas wagons" some of which
were indeed sent to Riga.

So, as usual, you prove that you don't know anything about
nothing. Dates, technical details, nothing. But I've already
told you that.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:16 PDT 1996
Article: 59356 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vgrih$pfs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vipn8$fh3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 02:15:29 GMT
Lines: 55

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# you can outrun bullets?

No, untermench. But, suppose you march a very large
group of people - say, 2,000 - to an open area, and
start shooting them. Now, if you don't have enough
men to guard the area, the victims will most probably
start running around, right? And you'd have to start
firing after them, wasting huge amounts of ammunition,
while many will get away, right? Moreover, many may
start running at you, and while you kill a few, the
rest may tear you apart, right?

Stupid of you to bring the example of Goldstein and
his massacre at the mosque. Those who survived the
fire did pounce on him and smash his skull.

So, you need

1) Many people to stand around and guard.

2) Fire many bullets. These are important during war
   time. You don't want to waste them if not necessary.
   If you're firing with a machine-gun, there's no way
   in the world you'd manage one bullet per person.

3) Walk around afterwards and finish off those who
   were missed, or only wounded, by the initial firing
   (as was done).

4) You can't fool the victims. Once lined up to be shot,
   they'd realize what is going on. They may try to escape.

On the other hand, killing these 2,000 people in a gas 
chamber:

1) Saves ammunition.

2) You can try and fool the victims that they're going
   to be washed/disinfected (as the Nazis attempted).

3) Is extremely cheap and fast (4 Kg of Zyklon, 10-15
   minutes).

4) But for extremely rare cases, you're guaranteed all
   victims are dead.


These are obvious advantages of gassing over shooting.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:17 PDT 1996
Article: 59364 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4ve458$llp@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  <4vithj$nr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:20:41 GMT
Lines: 22

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Since when does engine exhaust constitute a special hazard?

The Just-to-Becker letter mentions a case of "explosion"
in Chelmno. Possibly, it happened because of overpressure
being built in the chamber, because the letter also suggests
means with which to prevent this buildup.

# Do you have a straight face when you type these things?

You are incapable of judging the accuracy of such matters,
as you have proven, again and again and again, that you
have no understanding whatsoever of any technical matter,
be it cremation, diesel engines, Zyklon-B, HCN etc. In case
you forgot, I'll be happy to post a list of incredibly
idiotic claims which you posted about these matters.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:17 PDT 1996
Article: 59374 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <321dc798.70138819@news.zilker.net> <4vlsoa$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:16:34 GMT
Lines: 36

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# How many times are you folks going to spam ads for
# Nizkor?  And what is the difference between what you
# folks post and what I post?

The difference, you raging ape, is that you are posting,
a few times a day, the phone number of a person who is
not Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to the
Nizkor project or anything even remotely connected to it.

It is totally and completely clear that you're doing it 
only to put this person in danger. There's no other
reason whatsoever.

And you call people who suggest to post your father's
phone number "sub-human". But you're doing something
similar, a few times a day.

You're a sub-human by your own definition.

If it was Ken McVay's number you would be posting, that
would just make you a filthy animal. But posting this
number makes you a piece of sub-human scum for which
there is no description yet.

# Or is there a rule about a.r that I have missed?

There are rules about human-like behavior you have
missed. But since you're not a human being, that's
understandable.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:18 PDT 1996
Article: 59377 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:45:21 GMT
Lines: 14
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:83718 alt.revisionism:59377

Unterschardummkopf Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) writes:

[About the Holocaust]

# Yeah, you know that I refuse to believe in it.

Exactly. You REFUSE TO BELIEVE IN IT.

Very good.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:19 PDT 1996
Article: 59383 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: HItler and Stalin
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vgho7$kqi@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vjmm1$ql8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:28:11 GMT
Lines: 31

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## More lies from the untermench. Beria was not Jewish.

# he most certainly was.

No, untermench. He was not. He was a Mingrelian. But then 
you untermenchen also claim, rather often, that Stalin 
was Jewish.

You should stop reading so much of Streicher. BTW, there is
this book about the Nurnberg trials that has a photo of
him after he was hanged. Read that book. It's very interesting.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 08:18:20 PDT 1996
Article: 59384 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vgrih$pfs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vipn8$fh3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:13:01 GMT
Lines: 66

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# yes but you're trying to say they were using this puny little 
# rooms which show up on maps as being used for an entirely 
# different purpose.  

The "gassing cellar" and "gas chamber" are mentioned in the
Krema's construction documents.

# If they -were- going to gas them then there was no need to 
# transport them hundreds of miles.  

Sigh. I have elaborated at length about the need to keep
the killing secret, because of rebellions and escapes that
took place when the Jews heard what was awaiting them.

# unknown as such to all nazis save to a few tortured and 
# coerced witnesses 

I repeat, yet again, that there is no proof that a single
testimony about the gassings was obtained by torture, more
so as most were given in German courts.

# like Hoes who had his balls smashed in.  How absurd.  

You're losing the little sanity which you may have had. Nobody
smashed Hoess' balls. If you have any evidence for that, post
it.

# Not when you figure in the cost of transportation, feeding 
# prisoners (who supposedly are just going to be gassed?)

Nobody fed them. They were gassed upon arrival in the death
camps. 

# hardly a compelling consideration considering the convenience 
# of a machine gun nearby as opposed to the substantial and 
# absurd trouble and manpower involved in carting them, tagging 
# them, feeding them, housing them, maintaining them, guarding 
# them 

Sigh. You're an imbecile indeed.

It was explained to you that nobody tagged them, nobody fed
them, nobody housed them, nobody "maintained" them; those
marked as "unfit for labor" were gassed upon arrival.

Re guarding etc, you would have to do that no matter how they
would have been murdered.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 10:47:22 PDT 1996
Article: 83715 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: About That Goldhagen Book....
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vjbm9$1kv6@sol.caps.maine.edu> <9608231636.AA59242@fitz.eng.intercon.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:34:59 GMT
Lines: 32

sharon@intercon.com (Sharon Henderson) writes:

# If we limit our understanding by "us and them" mentalities,
# or saying that "she killed him and they killed that", we
# leave ourselves dangerously open to the possibility that such
# things could happen again.

You know, you remind me of that scene in the Monty Pyton (sp?)
movie about the search for the holy grail.

This whacky knight charges into the wedding party and kills
people to the left and to the right. When his real identity
is discovered, the host immediately gives a speech about what
a cool guy he really is, and how he should be forgiven for
what he did. One guy in the back screams "he killed my
aunt!", to which the host replies with something like:

"Friends, let us not bother with such mundane matters as
 'who killed who'...".

I don't intend to mock you. I don't think you're a bad
person. But you have to realize that the Holocaust was
NOT a common tragedy through which the Germans and the
Jews suffered.   

BTW, I'm rather fatalistic about the possibility of such
things happening again. I don't really believe education
can prevent them. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 11:51:46 PDT 1996
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From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 12:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59480 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Greg Raven Demonstrates His Analytic Skills
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 00:59:40 GMT
Lines: 40

Follows a truly remarkable example of "revisionist scholarship",
courtesy of Greg Raven, a "leading revisionist" for many years.

When Raven was doing his Holocaust-denial schtick on GEnie, the
texts of many Nazi documents about the mass murder of the Jews
were posted in response. One of them was an order by Reichskommissar 
Lohse to halt the killing of Jewish skilled workers; the occupying
Nazi forces were killing all the Jews they could their hands on,
including those who could be used for slave labor. This upset
Lohse, who wrote:

Order by Reichskommissar Lohse to halt the killing of Jewish skilled
workers, December 2 1941
[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 396]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reichskommissar for Ostland                 Riga, December 2 1941

The Chief Quartermaster (Chiefintendant) of the Wehrmacht Command 
in Ostland has lodged a complaint that armament plants and repair
workshops have been deprived of Jewish skilled workers through
their liquidation, and that they cannot be replaced there at the
present time.

I request most emphatically that the liquidation of Jews employed
as skilled workers in armament plants and repair workshops of the
Wehrmacht who cannot be replaced by local personnel be prevented.



Now, look at Raven's response. No more needs to be added.

# This is a message from a man pleading to be allowed to keep
# his Jews so they can be left at their jobs. This hardly sounds 
# like mass murder!


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 12:30:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59490 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Matt Giwer: An Ignorant Imbecile, I
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 23:10:07 GMT
Lines: 55

Yet again, our 163-IQ'ed "leading revisionist", Matt Giwer,
proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.

# There is none from a diesel engine.  Even you
# should know that.  

"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).

## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

# Not a diesel.  

Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong 
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is 
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios 
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the 
exhaust.

Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.

Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about.

The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 12:30:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59491 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Matt Giwer: An Ignorant Imbecile, III
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:13:33 GMT
Lines: 52

More "scientific hilites" from Matt Giwer:



 From:         mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
Message-Id:   <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this
>is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released
>within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh,
>in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent
>in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent
>to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself.

>There is more information to support the faster release rates;
>I'll post it soon.

 Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any 
release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.  And keep 
in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm 
enough.  That is, the second half hour would be another 40% 
of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour.



The stupid clown claims that, at a temperature of
20 degrees, no HCN will be released from the Zyklon.

Can anyone believe how stupid Giwer is?

Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN
evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far
lower temperatures than 20 degrees. 

His "claim" is more-or-less equivalent to asserting
that there can be no humidity in the air if the 
temperature is below the boiling point of water 
(100 Celsius that is)...

He is *so* stupid.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 12:30:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59495 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vipn8$fh3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vjmvm$qml@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 22:46:11 GMT
Lines: 31

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# The machine gunning of peasants this way in Russia and 
# Cambodia worked. 

I thought Stalin starved them. Can you make up your mind?

# The point is, as history has amply demonstrated, killing 
# squads using guns is, along with starvation, the modus 
# operandi of extermination -- 

History also demonstrated that bombing cities with 
conventional weapons works, yet the US used A-bombs.

You can screech as much as you want, fact is that two
people, each with 2 1Kg cans of Zyklon, can kill 2,000
people in 15 minutes, without wasting ammunition, which
you want to save during war time - a point which you
continue to ignore.

# not goofy gas. 

You're one odd untermench, I must say. What's "goofy" about
HCN, the same gas used to execute people in gas chambers in
US prisons? You want to demonstrate your point by breathing
some of this "goofy gas"? Go ahead. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 12:30:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59516 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DvdThomas: The HUMANE Nazi (Re:   Wieder mit dem)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vi7f1$8qh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vib7n$oqi@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 01:20:31 GMT
Lines: 14

rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) writes:

[To dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas)]

# Why are you here? What motivates you to deny, trivialize, 
# and joke about the murders of millions of human beings?

He doesn't classify them as human beings. That is, after
all, the first rule of Nazism.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 14:44:02 PDT 1996
Article: 59549 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Matt Giwer: An Ignorant Imbecile, II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:02:02 GMT
Lines: 36

Giwer recently claimed that the amount of Zyklon-B, necessary
to kill people in the gas chambers in 10-15 minutes, was too
much for two men to carry on a ladder:

 From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Date:         1996/08/10
 Message-Id:   <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
 
# Go take another look at it and note the amount released in 
# the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common 
# description of the time frame.  THEN calculate backwards to 
# find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve lethality 
# in that time frame.  
#
# And then, when you discover that two people could not carry 
# enough to do it, explain why they were in such a hurry to 
# kill when cremation was the bottleneck in the operation.  



A trivial calculation, which I posted, shows the weight 
to be 3 Kg. And this, in the largest gas chambers, in
which there were 4 openings; that's 3/4 of a Kg for 
each SS-man. 8 Kg (2 Kg per SS-man) would result in
an even faster death. Is Giwer claiming that an SS-man
could not carry such an amount?

There is nothing "miraculous" about the facts of the
Holocaust; the only miracle we see here is the fact that 
Giwer managed to stay employed till he was 46-years-old 
(when he retired).


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 14:44:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59558 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4vithj$nr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4vme4n$sne@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:24:02 GMT
Lines: 30

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Absolutely impossible.  There is no possible build up of 
# pressure that does not shut down the engine. 

There is no reason to take seriously any comment you
make on any technical matter, because you have proved
yourself incapable of dealing with technical matters.

See the "Matt Giwer: Ignorant Imbecile I,II,III" articles
of yesterday.

Perhaps this topic could be studied further, but you
just cannot be of any help. You are useless.

# You are clearly an asshole.

Is this how your parents still call each other? I asked you
not to use on this newsgroup the language you learned at
home. Please. This is public domain.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 15:19:08 PDT 1996
Article: 59567 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Politics of Holohugging:  Theory
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vmp8n$pru@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:03:43 GMT
Lines: 21

SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 15:19:08 PDT 1996
Article: 59568 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Why are "revisionists" gutless jellyfish?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4ve3ve$n4d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vnfng$n9k@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:14:41 GMT
Lines: 14

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

# I wonder why it is that such a large percentage of 
# "revisionists" post under pseudonyms, or anonymously? 

An obvious reason: one Nazi monkey can have a few 
accounts, and make it look as if there are many of them.

Dan Gannon, for instance, had 4 different accounts. 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 15:57:09 PDT 1996
Article: 59581 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ve2jj$mkr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vf8eg$52t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 22:43:10 GMT
Lines: 45

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:

# From a Dan Keren post to David Thomas:

So you think it was a cheap shot? It was. How does it
feel? How do others feel when you do it? 

I apologize. Can you apologize?

# My response then was that I did not like to see schizophrenia 
# used as a perjorative--first, because it is insensitive, and 
# second, because my mother suffers from that condition.

Do you know what the Nazis would have done to your mother? Let's
stop the stupid games. You do know, don't you?

She would be taken to Hadamar, or Grafenck, or Hartheim, with
other people in her condition. She would be told to undress, and
to go into a shower room, where she would be killed with
carbon monoxide. Read Brack's and other testimonies for more
elaborate descriptions, if you care.

You know that. Don't play games. For once, don't play games.

# You act sometimes as if you have a lock on both humanity 
# and suffering.

No. Sorry. It is you who breaks the world into two parts
and applies a different set of rules and emotions to each.

The suffering of your mother is terrible. The suffering of
the Palestinians is terrible. The suffering of the Jews, for
you, is something to joke about. Ha-ha. Stark's testimony.
You find it funny, don't you.

I am very sorry to hear about your mother's tragedy. Please
accept my apology for what I hinted regarding her. But I
stand by everything else.


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 18:44:26 PDT 1996
Article: 59628 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: an interesting exercise
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vmbgt$sne@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:00:21 GMT
Lines: 50

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Recently the issue was raised again about the lack of a
# top down paper trail of a policy of mass extermination of 
# Jews not existing.

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 19:25:15 PDT 1996
Article: 59632 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4vd8e1$7gv@hil-news-svc-4.compuserve.com> <4vivsi$obn@Vir.com> <4vlm5s$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:43:27 GMT
Lines: 37

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# As the ZB can was put inside and the door closed before it
# was opened by action from the outside it was certainly 
# convenient to have a look at the can in the event that 
# anything went wrong.  

"To have a look at the can"?

You know, Matt, every time I say to myself "that's it, he
cannot, he simply cannot, post anything more stupid that
this", but you always succeed.

1) The Zyklon wasn't left in the can, you klutz. It was 
   scattered inside the chamber.

2) Supposing it was left in the can, what could they possibly
   see by looking at it?

   What?

   That one of Zundel's UFO's entered the chamber through a 
   worm-hole and stole the Zyklon?

   WHAT?

# A hole and a light on delousing chamber doors is certainly 
# reasonable.

Why does the peephole need to be protected from the *inside*
with a strong metal grid? So the lice wouldn't break it?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 24 22:15:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59656 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,can.politics,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!news.mcgill.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!uniserve!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Whereabouts of Les: Speculation Mounts
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vo52r$or2@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 03:49:23 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40733 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27732 can.politics:66972 alt.discrimination:52494 alt.revisionism:59656

John Baglow  wrote:

# So, where *is* Les Griswold? Readers are invited to speculate.

[...]

# Any other guesses? It's a slow Saturday evening...

Well, John, I'm surprised that you didn't think about this...

Maybe he tried to test some "revisionist" theories, such as
"engine exhaust and Zyklon-B cannot kill anyone"? 

 :-)


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:49 PDT 1996
Article: 59673 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vdued$k7l@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ve279$qtg@news.enter.net> <321b40e0.6892500@news.spry.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:03:33 GMT
Lines: 16

klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:

[About David Irving]

# Irving produced a 926-page work intended to show that
# Hitler was kind to his animals and to his secretaries,
# that he was "probably the weakest leader Germany has
# known in this century,"

Indeed, one of the most spectacularly idiotic things
Irving ever wrote.

       
-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:50 PDT 1996
Article: 59675 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:    
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 03:44:34 GMT
Lines: 13
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:59675 soc.culture.german:83789

Unterschardummkopf olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

# Am I a looser, because I do not believe in multirecialism?

No. You're a loser because you were born 50 years too
late and missed all the fun.

Now bugger off, nazi-boy.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:50 PDT 1996
Article: 59679 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4v8toq$hcr@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 21:48:50 GMT
Lines: 34

mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

[To Andrew Allen, who for some reason uses the alias "Ceacaa"]

# And then, please explain why it would have been _necessary_ to
# "chip" all four holes at the same time beforehand-thus exposing
# the interior of the .Keller to the elements while the "little
# chimneys" were being constructed -instead of cutting the holes
# as each "little chimney" was built. 

Mark, Mr. Allen's hypothesis is so stupid that I must assume
he consulted "leading revisionist scholar", Bradley Smith,
on these matters. Don't forget that Smith was a construction
worker before he became a "leading revisionist scholar". 
Unfortunately, Smith probably knows about construction
work as much as he knows about history, or as much as
Giwer knows about anything.


-Danny Keren.


 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59737 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazis Vs. Catholics (Re: HItler and Stalin)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vgho7$kqi@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vjmm1$ql8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <321E8CE7.7534@haven.ios.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 08:32:45 GMT
Lines: 40

Alexander Kimel  writes:

# Dear Kurt:

Kurt isn't his real name, BTW. He's a cowardly Nazi scum
who uses an alias.

# Do you know that all those that brought us hatred and 
# destruction; Hitler, Heydrich, Himmler, Goebbels were born 
# and raised in the Catholic religion?

That may be true, but they were certainly no Catholics when
they matured. As a matter of fact, the Nazis persecuted 
the clergy, especially the Polish priests; in Dachau alone,
they murdered 868 of them.

See what Goebbels wrote about the Catholic Church:

March 26, 1942 (see Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, p. 146): 

 "It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue 
its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to 
extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the 
regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these 
politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we 
are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the 
war for an over-all solution of this problem".



There's also a well-known quote from Streicher, in which he
criticizes Christinanity for having "stood in the way of
the radical solution of the Jewish problem".


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59750 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!uct.ac.za!und.ac.za!peacenjoy.mikom.csir.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Politics of Holohugging:  Theory
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vmp8n$pru@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:03:14 GMT
Lines: 26



Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.




-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59764 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Diplomacy
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vmf5d$sne@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:57:56 GMT
Lines: 13

Matt  Giwer  wrote:

# Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice holohugger" until you can 
# find a rock big enough to do the job.  

This looks like another death threat from Giwer. 

I wonder where our humane, sensitive "dvdthomas" is? Yoo-hoo, 
Ya-hoo, Yahooligan-hoo ( :-) ), where are you, pal?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 09:51:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59798 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4vlm5s$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vml60$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:34:52 GMT
Lines: 38

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## 1) The Zyklon wasn't left in the can, you klutz. It was 
##    scattered inside the chamber.

# Sir, we are talking about the delousing chambers.  

I know.

# I gave you references to their descriptions, posted pictures 
# and diagrams of them for you.  

All the photos show the Zyklon being spread on the floor,
not left in the can. 

This is from Dr. Peter's book:

 "The application of cyclon is exceptionally easy. Either the 
cans can be opened and emptied in the rooms to be gassed, by 
gassing personnel protected by gas masks and using special 
pick-hammers. or the cans can be opened outside of buildings 
in free air with a special device. In large buildings, only the 
second method is advisable. Then, after opening, the cans are
sealed again at once with rubber caps and are distributed in the 
building which is to be gassed. (Mills, barracks, etc.) The gassing 
personnel has to remove the rubber caps under the protection of gas 
masks and to spread the contents of the can on a proper underlay".



You have still failed to explain what could possibly be learned
by looking at the can. And why the peephole has to be protected
(from the inside) by a strong metal grid.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 14:43:05 PDT 1996
Article: 83784 of soc.culture.german
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: About That Human Race... (Re: About That Goldhagen Book....)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vjbm9$1kv6@sol.caps.maine.edu> <9608231636.AA59242@fitz.eng.intercon.com>  <4vmlku$tsq@sol.caps.maine.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:06:11 GMT
Lines: 68

scotterb@maine.maine.edu (Scott Erb) writes:
# Danny Keren (dkeren@world.std.com) says:

## BTW, I'm rather fatalistic about the possibility of such
## things happening again. I don't really believe education
## can prevent them. 

# Well, I guess if we look at Rwanda, etc., those things are 
# happening again. But I don't understand your fatalism.  
# Education - teaching tolerance - is one way to slowly rebuild 
# a way of thinking from the bottom up.  

One should try, of course. That's what life is about - trying.
Does it guarantee we'll succeed? No.

I just happen to believe there's a basic flaw with the human
race. Not that I think people, in general, are bad; not at
all. I just believe we have a flaw. Fortunately, it is latent
for most of the time; but here and there it erupts. And it 
will, most probably, erupt again. Where? I don't know.

# If Goldhagen is right (and I think to a large extent he is), 
# then the holocaust has to be seen as a cultural event, 
# reflecting German culture and thinking as it made it possible 
# for a Nazi ideology to be successful and Nazi orders to be 
# carried out (which, of course, was tied into an historical 
# European anti-semitism).  

That's a description of a process. But this process could
not take place had it not been for that basic flaw, which,
I believe, inflicts mankind.

# Doesn't it make sense to, after seeing where such thinking 
# leads, try to learn from it and through education slowly alter 
# such patterns of thought?  

Of course we should try.

# Don't you think that this has to some extent been successful?

I don't know. The flaw is still there. We, human beings, are
what we are. No one can really change that.

# Humans may learn slow, but ultimately I think they are 
# responsible for their own destiny.

The problem is that learning is not enough. Some of the
deepest and strongest forces that drive us are not influenced
by knowledge or by logic. And when they erupt, knowledge
and logic collapse like a house of cards in the midst of 
a tornado. 

What Hitlers do best is focus these forces into a single
phase and direct them at a single target. Hitlers are 
simply geniuses at that. And when they succeed, the
tornado of blood and destruction is unleashed, and there's
no way to stop it but to destroy it.

Sorry if this is pessimistic; you may be surprised to
hear that I'm not a pessimistic person, in general. But
that's my view of things...

Best regards,


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 15:57:12 PDT 1996
Article: 135595 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 04:23:11 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 15:59:30 PDT 1996
Article: 59825 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vlgts$d7j@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:07:08 GMT
Lines: 46

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:
# Dan Keren wrote:

## The suffering of the Jews, for you, is something to 
## joke about.

# That's offensive, untrue and without basis.

That's the truth.

## Ha-ha. Stark's testimony. You find it funny, don't you.

# It would help a little if you told me what you're 
# referring to.

I'm referring to your comments on the testimony. "Snidely
Grabner strikes again" or something of the sort.

# If my suppositions about gassing chambers are proven to 
# be incorrect, 

They are incorrect, and you know it.

You're not even trying to defend your claim that the ruins
suggest these chambers would have been inappropriate for
gassing. 

# I'll switch to the role you're playing and try to
# do it with a bit more realization that those I'm talking to 
# are also human beings, not some projected embodiement of 
# ultimate evil.

Anyone who spits on the graves of millions of innocent
people, expresses admiration for the murderers, and mocks 
the memory of the victims, is ultimately evil. That's my
opinion. Can a person like that change? Possibly, yes. 

Dostoevsky is my favorite writer; that's one reason I
believe there's hope for everybody. For some, unfortunately, 
there's not much hope.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 15:59:31 PDT 1996
Article: 59854 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vn109$651@news-e2d.gnn.com>  <4vq2l0$6dv@news-e2d.gnn.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:49:08 GMT
Lines: 36

Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) writes:

# The importance of these calculations is really in regard to 
# the Cyanide concentrations found during the various samples 
# and chemical analysis that were conducted.

I thought we've been through this, many times.

The required exposure time for delousing is very long
(many hours). Homicidal gassing with the same concentration
kills within minutes.

Because of that, the walls of the homicidal gas chambers
were exposed to the gas for a much shorter time than
those of the delousing chambers.

Moreover, the delousing chambers are intact, the gas
chambers destroyed and left in ruins for 50 years
before Rudolph took his samples; during those 50 years,
they were exposed to rain, acid rain etc, which 
washed  away some of the cyanide compounds.

# A comparison of these to the delousing chambers (in which 
# approximately the same amount of Zyklon must have been used)

Sigh. Same concentration, but far shorter exposure time.

We've been through this a zillion times. Isn't enough, enough?

Lastly, aren't Rudolph's findings in the homicidal chambers
much smaller than what other chemists found?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 15:59:32 PDT 1996
Article: 59855 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vn109$651@news-e2d.gnn.com>  <4vp598$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:31:48 GMT
Lines: 19

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# I have posted my calculations.  

You have posted a file with an odd format. I thought this
was taken from the "Rudolph report".

# What is your problem with them that you would say this?  

You're the one with a problem. You've claimed that the
SS-men couldn't carry enough Zyklon up the ladder so as
kill the victims within 15-20 minutes. However, the
required amount for the largest gas chambers is about
4 Kg total, that is, about 1 Kg per SS-man.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 15:59:32 PDT 1996
Article: 59860 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Document About the Capacity of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Furnaces
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 00:10:27 GMT
Lines: 10

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/furnace-capacity.jpg

A letter from Jahrling to Kammler, giving the cremation
capacity of the furnaces in the five Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematoriums as 4,756 corpses per 24 working hours.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 18:23:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59888 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.goodnet.com!nntp.wwwi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4ve2jj$mkr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4vjn0o$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 07:34:55 GMT
Lines: 25

rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

[To Matt Giwer]

# You are an idiot. (That is also libel, and I urge you to sue
# me.) Should you require further libel, I will now label you a 
# liar, an anti-semetic liar, a nazi sympathizer, and a moron.

Well, you could have been a little polite and mention the
famous 163 IQ points.

 :-)


-Danny Keren.


 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 18:23:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59905 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4vlsoa$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vml9f$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:28:36 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## The difference, you raging ape, is that you are posting,
## a few times a day, the phone number of a person who is
## not Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to the
## Nizkor project or anything even remotely connected to it.

# How do you know?  

I know that because I know Mr. McVay's correct phone
number, and also because I know who the number you're
posting belongs to.

But, again, even if this was Mr. McVay's correct phone
number you're posting, there's no justification and no
rational reason for doing that. It only proves that
you cannot make headway in this "debate", and therefore
resort to intimidation. You're admitting defeat every
time you post that information.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 18:23:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59906 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.dgsys.com!news.dgsys.com!news.mai.net!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4uvklh$pra@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4v1gdc$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:29:18 GMT
Lines: 41

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Therefore they transported people from France and Greece
# and Italy to gas them in Poland.

A relatively small number; most victims were Poles,
or Soviet Jews murdered close to where they lived.

# Stupid shit.  

You don't have to use such words just because this is
what you learned at home.

# Today military ball 9mm rounds cost 11 cents each.  For 
# 6 million dead from ALL causes that is $660,000 dollars.

Bullets are necessary items during the war. Why waste
them if you can kill the people with Zyklon?

# Not by any rational calculation but let me see your 
# calculations for the amount needed to kill in 10-15 minutes.

For the largest gas chambers? 4 Kg would definitely
be enough. What is your figure?

# The gas chambers were discovered in the last five years.

This is such an insane and stupid comment that there's
no use reading this anymore. They were found immediately
after the war. You're simply out of your mind.

You've been a bad boy, and the .sig returns.


-Danny Keren.

-- 
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 22:29:15 PDT 1996
Article: 59921 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!ames!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Anti-anti-semitism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vg5p3$fof@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4vol2b$dgd@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 05:22:47 GMT
Lines: 14

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

# An objective reader here could see that Mr Keren used only the
# words 'coward', 'Nazi', 'miserable', and 'lies'. He completelly
# forgot to use the traditionnal 'stupid', 'idiot',  and then it
# is clear that a changement is now on the way in mr Keren's mind,
# he's close to turn his coat and become one of our fellow 
# revisionist. This is an encouraging sign.

As I said in the past, I'm only here to make friends. 


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Aug 25 22:29:16 PDT 1996
Article: 59952 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.onramp.net!newshost.convex.com!cnn.exu.ericsson.se!eua.ericsson.se!news.algonet.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!Norway.EU.net!EU.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vbslc$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vn109$651@news-e2d.gnn.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:48:40 GMT
Lines: 15

Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) writes:

# To enable a relatively fast execution, Rudolf has 
# calculated that the quantities of Zyklon B used must have 
# been at least correspondingly comparable to those used in 
# technical delousing.

That's 4 Kg to kill 2,000 people in 15-20 minutes. I
recall Rudolph gives 4.5 Kg. Now convince "kurt stele" 
and Giwer.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59993 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vlpu5$cvr@grivel.une.edu.au> <4vr6ke$nkr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:50:11 GMT
Lines: 12

For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:04 PDT 1996
Article: 59996 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4vml9f$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4vp3ek$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:39:40 GMT
Lines: 39

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# I posted public information.  You appear to have a problem 
# with posting public information. 

You're posting the phone number of a person who is not
Ken McVay, and who is not related in any way to this
newsgroup, to the Nizkor project, or anything even
remotley connected to the documentation of the Holocaust.

There is no rational reason for you to do this. If you think
the Holocaust is a hoax, fine, go ahead and prove it. But
there's no way in the world that you can justify the
repeated posting of that phone number. It's irrelevant
to the "debate" here.

It's totally irrelevant whether it's public information
or not.

# My address and phone number are publically available on my 
# website as they are from the secret telphone number that 
# reveals such information.

So what?

You called someone who suggested to post your father's
phone number "sub-human". You're doing a very similar
thing. So, do you claim you're a "sub-human"?

# But we are back to the original question, how do you know? 

I've already answered that: because I know Mr. McVay's
correct phone number, and because I know who the number
you're posting belongs to.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:05 PDT 1996
Article: 60006 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vmqiv$q2r@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 20:44:08 GMT
Lines: 51

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# gee, with a single mounted machine gun and a few guards 
# there wouldn't much of a chance of somebody "tearing 
# you apart".

No. But that was my point. You do need guards. Otherwise
the people may start running. In the gas chambers, they
can not run anywhere.

And, with gas, you save ammunition, which you want to
save during a war. But keep ignoring that point. That's
ok. You're a "revisionist scholar" after all.

# not a problem. The kill ratio would still be tremendously 
# high, the surivors being only a fractional percentage.

That is bullcrap. Odd coincidence - I just saw on the 
A&E "American Justice" series a documentary about the
Philadelphia mob (some of you out there must have also
seen it). The movie concentrated on the hit men. It is
amazing how many of the would-be victims survived after
being shot at close range. If you're firing into a
crowd, even more would survive. 

# what gas chamber had 2,000 people?  

The ones in Kremas II & III in Birkenau.

# What are you talking about. You think Zyklon B can kill 2,000 
# people quickly?  Are you joking

Stop being a damned idiot. Even "revisionists" agree with
this figure.


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:06 PDT 1996
Article: 60007 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: arithmetic problem for Dr. Keren
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vlkok$bni@news.icanect.net> <321E8ABA.2E25@unb.ca>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 00:38:00 GMT
Lines: 18

Well, here's a really nice riddle, for those who are
bored, or who don't find this newgroup enough of an
intellectual challenge...

A cat and a mouse are inside a disk-shaped area (that
is, they cannot get out of a circle). Their speed is
exactly the same. Assume their reaction time is zero
and their size is also zero (that is, they are two
points).

Can the cat devise a strategy that will always result
with it catching the mouse, no matter what the mouse
does?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:07 PDT 1996
Article: 60025 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vlpu5$cvr@grivel.une.edu.au> <4vr6ke$nkr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:43:12 GMT
Lines: 70

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

Yet again, the untermench here is trying to convince us that
since shooting people kills them, this proves that the Nazis
would have shot them and not used gas chambers. I guess this
also proves the A-bomb thing is a hoax. If bombing cities with 
conventional bombs worked very well, why build A-bombs? Same
kind of "revisionist logic".

# Which one was it?  Were they trying to be secret or not? 

They were trying to be secret.

# You say they were trying to be secret. Yet they transported 
# huge numbers of people in broad daylight.

But they didn't write on the trains, in big letters, "all
the people in this train are going to be gassed". 

# But they did not.  They transported jews into labor camps, 
# with relatively high sanitary conditions.

SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.



# And then gas them using "Raid"?

Untermench,  why don't you prove your theories by standing
in a room and having someone throw Zyklon-B into it? Go
ahead. Why are you such a coward?

You're really a strange person. It's been explained to you
that Zyklon-B releases HCN. This is the same gas used to
execute people in gas chambers in US prisons.

# as far as the gas chambers go, those are hoaxes. The so-called
# gas chamber are actually hoaxes with hoaxes e.g., diesel engine
# gas chamber.

So now, the poor old untermench repeats the claims of Friedrich
Berg, he even uses the name Berg uses for his articles. Tell
us, untermench, you're probably going to claim that "exhaust from
diesel engines can't kill anyone"? Sigh. That's old stuff,
untermench. Refuted long ago.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 60026 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infi.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Witches, Nazis and the fascination with evil
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vqraq$ai1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:51:57 GMT
Lines: 34

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# But even today there are people who will confess to
# crimes they did not commit.  And the more heinous the 
# crime the more people who will confess.  

I guess you just proved that the bombing of Dresden
and Stalin's crimes never took place. "People confessed
to bombing Dresden? So what. People also confessed that
they were witches".

I mean, for the sake of Shitler's lonely testicle, what
is this? Some new breakthrough in criminology? "Your
honor, I know my client confessed. But there were
people who confessed that they were witches. Therefore, 
his confession means nothing".

Are you serious? Please tell us you're not.

Also, show us a very large number of, say, Brits, among
them high officers, doctors, layers, etc, who confess
to having committed genocide using gas chambers. Show us
also the supporting documentation, population stats,
photographs, and physical remains.

You have stooped to posting such utter garbage that it
is obvious you're desperate. Why don't you do something
more constructive with your life? Look for a job, maybe?
I don't think it's healthy to retire at the age of 46.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:09 PDT 1996
Article: 60035 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4viml7$e70@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vp1ls$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <32203C97.75E3@infinop.com> <4vr0la$ai1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:22:45 GMT
Lines: 32

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[About the Einsatzgruppen]

# I give a low number.  It is actually more like 4.5 
# million.  

No, it is not. 

The Einsatzgruppen murdered about 1 million Jews in
Nazi-occupied USSR. Another million were murdered in
Auschwitz-Birkenau; 700,000 in Treblinka; 600,000
in Belzec.

The rest died in "smaller" death camps such as Sobibor
and Chelmno, in numerous "work camps", and from being
starved to death in the Ghettos.

BTW, this argument of "why use gas chambers when shooting
did the job", may well be extended to:

1) Why use A-bombs when conventional bombs did the job?

2) Why build jet planes when turbo planes did the job?

Etc, etc, etc. We can PROVE that so many things never
happened. It's great.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:09 PDT 1996
Article: 60039 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Politics of Holohugging:  Theory
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vmp8n$pru@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vr6mk$nlp@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 05:05:54 GMT
Lines: 38

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

[Dr. Kremer's testimony about a gassing in Birkenau deleted]

# sounds like more "geese."

You don't have a good sense of humor, untermench. Nazis
never do.

# we're supposed to believe the "eyewitness" accounts of
# cruel and insensitive nazis, but the holohuggers told us before
# the SS were so "sensitive" they could not fire a weapon.  

This was, most certainly, not the *only* reason for using
gas chambers, but let's pose a question here.

All the men in the B-17's that turned German cities into
infernos. Burning women, children, babies alive.

How many of them could take all these babies and throw
them into the fire? Some, possibly, could; there are
sadists everywhere. But, in general, won't you agree
that it takes a far smaller psychological toll to do it 
in a "remote control" fashion? Just like the gassings?

# I'd work on finding those missing ashes if I were you Keren.

Plenty found in Maidanek and Treblinka. Now, find the
corpses of the 30 million Soviets you claim that Stalin 
killed, and the 2-3 million Germans who died after the
war, and the million German POW's you claim the US killed
after the war (or is it 10 million by now). Where are the
corpses, untermench?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:10 PDT 1996
Article: 60059 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cyberstation.net!news.walltech.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nazis Vs. Catholics (Re: HItler and Stalin)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vgho7$kqi@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <321E8CE7.7534@haven.ios.com>  <4vqoft$l3j@Vir.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 03:54:07 GMT
Lines: 19

Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## Kurt isn't his real name, BTW. He's a cowardly Nazi scum
## who uses an alias.

# how can you know that?

He said so.

# like the 4 allias for Dan Gannon, on what do you base your 
# statement?

Maynard, George Martin, Pete Faust, all were aliases for
Gannon.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 07:22:11 PDT 1996
Article: 60073 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.bluesky.net!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There's no business like Shoah business
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vd61l$8eg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 04:13:28 GMT
Lines: 41

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# Furthermore, there were other gasses available, far more 
# potent, which the nazis could have used had their intent 
# been extermination of the jews by gassing.

Name one.

# Towards the end of the war, conditions deteriorated in Europe 
# and the camps experienced outbreaks of typhus during the final 
# months.

The death rate was often 10 percent a month in the
"work camps" in 1942-3, long before the end of the war.

See letter from Oswald Pohl to Himmler, 30 Sep. 1943,
about the mortality in some of the concentration camps (as
opposed to death camps); it's in the "Trials Of War Criminals"
(green) series, Vol. V, p. 379.

In July 1942, the death rate was 8.5 percent.
In August 1942, the death rate was 10.6 percent.
In September 1942, the death rate was 10.2 percent.

Again, this is 10 percent dying *every month*.

I refer again to 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images

buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians brought by the Allies
to view the horrors of Buchenwald. 

buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald02.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg show
the inmates.

Enough said.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 08:43:56 PDT 1996
Article: 60077 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There were no food problems after WW II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vr5f7$g8v@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:55:50 GMT
Lines: 38

Look at the photos in 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/                

buchenwald04.jpg shows German civilians living nearby,
who were brought by the Allies to witness the horrors
of Buchenwald.

Contrast their appearance to that of the inmates:

buchenwald01.jpg
buchenwald02.jpg
buchenwald03.jpg

This is just one example; it was the same in the other
camps. The many movies taken by the Allies show the
German population, SS-guards, German soldiers all to
be very well-fed.

Also

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.

Death rate in the "work camps", long before the end of the war
(source: letter from Pohl to Himmler, "Trials Of War Criminals"
(green) series, Vol. V, p. 379.

In July 1942, the death rate was 8.5 percent.
In August 1942, the death rate was 10.6 percent.
In September 1942, the death rate was 10.2 percent.

Remember, that's 10 percent dying *every month*.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 11:05:42 PDT 1996
Article: 60115 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Another breakthough
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vrs2e$f3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:09:26 GMT
Lines: 23

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# But the nazis did not kill them.

The following photos are in

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images

They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.  

Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
         


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 14:56:03 PDT 1996
Article: 78047 of talk.politics.mideast
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What's the price of Shulamit Alony?
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3219B94E.642C@wizsoft.com>  <321B445B.6675@bnr.ca> <4vjvhq$8fq@morgoth.sfu.ca>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:09:34 GMT
Lines: 11
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.mideast:78047 soc.culture.israel:41737

Whatever stupid adolescent rants are posted about
Shulamit Aloni, the fact remains that she is possibly
the most intelligent, honest, and courageous politician   
in Israel's history. 

As the saying goes, the dogs may bark, but the convoy
goes on.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 15:00:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60121 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!nntp0.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vr6o4$nmj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4vrsq0$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:01:12 GMT
Lines: 33

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Are you really so strange that you have bave not read
                                     ^^^^^^^^^
# the Sobran commentary?

"have bave"?

Matt, I was just making a conjecture: stele=Giwer.

Both you and 'stele' are extremely stupid, obnoxious,
racist, and cannot handle basic arithmetic (see his
recent error, for instance, in calculating how many
ashes would remain from 6 million victims).

Moreover, your writing style is very much the same.
You also use the very same expressions.

Matt, look at your statement below. How many people can
be so defective as to make a statement like that? How many 
errors like this can mother nature make? 


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 15:00:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60135 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: arithmetic problem for Dr. Keren
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vlkok$bni@news.icanect.net> <321E8ABA.2E25@unb.ca>  <4vsj6e$j7u@scoop.eco.twg.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:05:45 GMT
Lines: 33

chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) writes:

[My cat chasing mouse in a circular disk riddle]

# Is this a contest? Does the first right answer get to
# use the condo in Maui?

Yep :-). And the yacht which the fatbroad didn't sink.

# Her feline intuition tells her that the spiral is
# infinite in length, so the cat will continually
# get closer and closer to the mouse but never 
# actually catch it.

Indeed, the correct (and rather surprising) answer is that
a smart mouse will never be captured. However, in order to
formally prove it, one has to be careful not to fall into
the trap of the "Achilles and the turtle" paradox; that is,
one has to devise a strategy and prove it lasts for an
infinite time. Moreover, one has to assume that the cat
is also as smart as they go, and that it can do whatever
it wants; it does not have to stick to a certain strategy,
but can change it as many times as he wants. 

Anyway, your sister's cat is smart enough to become a ZOG 
agent. We will soon send over the decoder ring and a few 
kosher mice.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 15:00:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60150 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vr6o4$nmj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 05:25:01 GMT
Lines: 26

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

[...]

Am I the only one who sees a striking similarity between
this guy's and Giwer's writing style?

And he also uses "holohugger"?

And he and Giwer shower compliments on each other?

And he also posts 30 or so articles per day?

It's a common tactic of the Nazis here to use a few aliases.
Gannon did it. "dvdthomas" admitted to also using "bob hunt",
"dbtgthomas", and "agathist".

And the "kurt stele" admits that it's not his real name.

Just something to think about.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 15:00:36 PDT 1996
Article: 60159 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.redshift.com!dataphone!solace!eru.mt.luth.se!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4v0rv5$dab@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 20:59:17 GMT
Lines: 149

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# oh bullshit.  When Reinhard Heydrich was killed, the
# Nazis had no compunction about wiping out an entire 
# Czechloslovakian village.  When they wanted to wipe 
# a group a people out they simply did it.  Hitler's
# purge during the night of the long knives was done 
# in the open.

You're talking about different orders of magnitude here.

# Now those exterminations, in contrast to the "holocaust, 
# made complete, plausible sense, i.e., they were done by the
# obvious and efficient means of killing -- by bullet 
# and/or starvation. 

The Nazis starved, shot, or overworked to death half
of the victims. The rest were killed in gas chambers.

All your empty rhetoric can't hide the fact that killing
with poison gas was very cheap, very efficient, and
saved ammunition.

# With Stalin and Pol Pot, as opposed to the Holohoax, 
# you had:
#
# No trains.

No trains? How were all these people deported to Siberia
and to the camps in Cambodia? They walked all the way
to Siberia?

# No tattoos.

Only those spared for work were tattooed.

# No insecticide.

Stop with this bloody rubbish already. It was a cheap
way with which to kill many people. So it was used.

# No "death-camps."

You heard it here, folks. No death camps in Stalin's 
USSR and Pol Pot's Cambodia.

# No stories of jewish women cleaning stairs with
# their tongues.

No sadism? Have you read about recent war crimes in Bosnia?

# If they had wanted to gas the jews they would have
# used the most efficient gas available -- not Zyklon B!  

Ok, let's here it. What gas do you think they should
have used?

# But you want people to believe the nazis created some
# idiotic, inefficient scheme for killing jews?  

No. I think they used a rather efficient scheme.

# Zyklon-B as opposed to several other gasses available at the
# time was ridiculously inefficient.  

All you stupid "revisionists" can do is repeat this like
a lame-brained parrot. The gas was very cheap, very easy
to handle, and they had a great deal of experience using it.

The same gas, HCN, is used to execute people in US
prisons. A natural choice.

# I guess it takes a holohugger to make insecticide into 
# "death gas" and crematoria into "ovens."  

I guess it takes a stupid "revisionist" to make unfounded
claims about technical matters without proving his point.

# You love comparing the Holocaust to Dresden, but the 
# analogy is inapposite.  For example, with Dresden we have 
# the actual documents authorizing the bombing. We don't have 
# any with the Holocaust (except a spurious document or two) 
# to prove that the Reich's intent was to exterminate the Jews 
# systematically.

There are many more such documents.

# You don't tatoo someone you are going to exterminate -- 
# no need to!  

Which is why only those spared as "fit for work" were
tattooed, not those gassed upon arrival.

# That sort of thoughtcontrol may be OK in Israel, but we
# Whites want the truth.  

Bwawawa. "We Whites". 

# Those inmate facilities weren't gas chambers.  The design of
# the buildings were inadequate for your silly gas chambers  

Stop repeating this like some dumb little Nazi. PROVE it.

# But instead you want me to believe that "Raid" was used, 
# and that it was all a big plot to wipe out the Jews using 
# insecticide, using buildings that couldn't have functioned 
# as gas chambers.  

Prove that they couldn't function as gas chambers. 

# Again, the difference between Dresden testimony and Holocaust
# testimony is that the latter is patently implausible.

Yes, sure. "Puddles of melted human flesh, four foot deep". 
People "glowing orange and disintegrating". People "turning 
into a fine layer of gray ashes", all these, BTW, without the
fire even touching them. All these are "testimonies" about
Dresden.

You claim that a major portion of Holocaust-related
testimonies are impossible? Prove it.

# The point you keep missing over and over is that the deaths
# of Germans at Dresden and after the war were not from 
# -implausible- causes,

Garbage. You claim 6 million corpses should be presented. You
now show me the millions of corpses of Germans who allegedly
died after the war ended, and in the bombing raids.

Fair is fair. Show us the corpses.

# yeah, and not in anywhere near the traces which could support 
# a finding they were used as gas chambers.  But, ODDLY ENOUGH, 
# the traces -do- support the finding that they came from 
# delousing fugimant.  Gee.  

And Dresden could have caught fire and burned down. Like
Chicago. It happens you know.

Moreover, you began by claiming that using these facilities
as gas chambers would have "killed the German soldiers
themselves". If this idiotic conjecture was true, than
using them as delousing chambers would also kill them; it's
the same gas.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 16:29:45 PDT 1996
Article: 60165 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Kurt', the Little Coward (Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis.")
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vlpu5$cvr@grivel.une.edu.au> <4vr6ke$nkr@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 04:49:27 GMT
Lines: 25

In one of his first articles on this newsgroup, not long
ago, the coward hiding under the "kurt stele" alias claimed
that it would have been impossible to use cyanide gas in
the gas chambers, as this would "kill the German soldiers
outside". 

Note that I challenged him, a few times, to defend this
claim, but he refuses to; he never responds. He also
refuses to explain how come there are cyanide compounds
on the walls of these gas chambers.

He claims to belong to a "superior race". Why, then, does
he refuse to debate this matter?

Is he too dumb?

Does he know that his claim is a lie?

How come a member of a "superior race" is such a stupid
coward? Can anyone explain? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 16:29:46 PDT 1996
Article: 60173 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: There were no food problems after WW II
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vr5f7$g8v@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <32218FD2.2461@rio.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:26:18 GMT
Lines: 31

Thanks for your comment, Chuck.

Chuck Ferree  writes:

# We are both on the same track, Danny. But, without something 
# like our Marshall Plan, the German-Austrians would have had 
# one hell of a time. 

I agree. The US didn't believe in starving people to death.
The Nazis did it on a massive scale, and they did it long
before the end of the war, which is an additional argument
against the infantile excuse of the "revisionists" here,
namely: "the people in the camps starved to death because
the supply lines were broken towards the end of the war".

Reminder:

Death rate in the "work camps", long before the end of the war
(source: letter from Pohl to Himmler, "Trials Of War Criminals"
(green) series, Vol. V, p. 379.

In July 1942, the death rate was 8.5 percent.
In August 1942, the death rate was 10.6 percent.
In September 1942, the death rate was 10.2 percent.

Remember, that's 10 percent dying *every month*.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 16:29:47 PDT 1996
Article: 60193 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!daily-planet.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vq2l0$6dv@news-e2d.gnn.com>  <4vri66$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:52:04 GMT
Lines: 54

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Obviously we both have a fundamental error as the
# smallest quantity for the huge gas chambers is 4 kg and
# the amount needed for the relatively small delousing 
# chambers is 1 kg as that was the smallest quantity canned.

Peter's book includes the following:

 "Picture 15 shows some commercial cyclon packages containing 
 from 100g CN to 1200g CN, and the usual carrier materials".

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/
images/peters-60.jpg

It seems that 1 Kg was not the smallest quantity canned. As
usual, you don't seem to have an idea what you're talking
about.

# Far longer exposure times as you know.

No. HCN kills very quickly. This is a medical fact. It
cannot be denied.

# So let us have a very serious analysis with public exposure
# and zero acrimony in the debate. 

That is, unfortunately, impossible. You are incapable of
handling basic arithmetic. You are a pathological liar, as
has been demonstrated here numerous times (and I'll be
happy to demonstrate it again). You cannot think rationally.
You are a racist. You post death threats.

Last but not least, you're a "sub-human" by your own
definition. When someone suggested that your father's
phone number will be posted, you called him "sub-human".
However, you routinely post the phone number of a person
who is not Ken McVay, the only possible motive being
to harras and intimidate.

You must realize that you have lost the "debate" here. 
So you lash out in desperation, like a crazed ape on a
rampage, trying to "get even".

I've given you a chance for a few months, hoping you will
change, but it's become evident that you are what you are
and I doubt that you will ever change. It's a pity, but
that's how things stand. There is simply no hope for you.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Aug 26 22:35:44 PDT 1996
Article: 60228 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'kurt stele', Mathematical Genius... (Re: Life and Fall of Wlo
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vritr$s34@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:49:24 GMT
Lines: 24

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# yeah, that's why all the millions of ashes are nowhere
# to be found. Millions of tons of ashes vanish without 
# a trace.

Hmm. "Millions of tons". Assume you meant just one million.
That means, divided by six million victims, 167 Kg of
ashes per corpse. The true figure is about 2 Kg.

You stupid Nazi monkey. And this schmuck claims to belong
to a "superior race"... 

A large amount of ashes was found in two camps that I know
of: Maidanek and Treblinka. In Birkenau, it was usually
dumped into the Vistula, which runs nearby. 

Now, show us the ashes/corpses of the 2 (or is it 3) million
Germans you claimed died after the war. Fair is fair.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 07:31:40 PDT 1996
Article: 60258 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: they are on the run
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vrrv8$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:24:32 GMT
Lines: 37

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# The only people who receive threats are revsionists.

That's odd. The only death threats posted here came from
Matt Giwer himself, and other "revisionists". 

FBI in Tampa has been informed of your threats, Matt. You
claim someone here made threats against you? Go ahead,
inform the FBI.

But what I really don't understand is why you had to
involve your son in this. What is the following supposed
to mean? It most certainly looks like a death threat.

 From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
 Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 05:40:17 GMT
 Organization: images incarnate

# I do not have to pray, I know.  His shooting skills simply
# are not as good as mine as yet.  It is just a matter of time.  
# He is also slower to anger than I, perhaps due to his weighing 
# near 300 lbs and built like Alley Oop.  But then, it is the 
# dark alley of your oop.  



Do you care to explain what this means, if you're not too
drunk?


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 07:31:41 PDT 1996
Article: 60261 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: About That Goldhagen Book....
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <9608221901.AA32258@fitz.eng.intercon.com> 
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:12:20 GMT
Lines: 18
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:84029 alt.revisionism:60261

qut@netcom.com (Skipp OBC) writes:

# Jews hate all whites.

Not true. I have sex with at least ten Aryan babes
every day. All look like Claudia Schiffer.    

Well, ok, and then I wake up. But I wake up smiling.

Forgive me, friends - I'm a little drunk. Always get
drunk when ZOG gives us a day off. Man! Time to go
to bed. Dem Green elephants are dancing on the    
keyboard again.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 12:59:57 PDT 1996
Article: 60312 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'kurt stele', Mathematical Genius... (Re: Life and Fal
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vritr$s34@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:51:41 GMT
Lines: 25

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# yeah, that's why all the millions of ashes are nowhere
# to be found. Millions of tons of ashes vanish without 
# a trace.

Hmm. "Millions of tons". Assume you meant just one million.
That means, divided by six million victims, 167 Kg of
ashes per corpse. The true figure is about 2 Kg.

You stupid Nazi monkey. And this schmuck claims to belong
to a "superior race"... 

A large amount of ashes was found in two camps that I know
of: Maidanek and Treblinka. In Birkenau, it was usually
dumped into the Vistula, which runs nearby. 

Now, show us the ashes/corpses of the 2 (or is it 3) million
Germans you claimed died after the war. Fair is fair.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 12:59:58 PDT 1996
Article: 60313 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Life and Fall of Wlodowa: Sobibor
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <4vritr$s34@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:52:58 GMT
Lines: 22

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# not when you figure in the cost of transporting, building, 
# tagging, feeding, housing, maintaining, guarding, not to
# mention delousing.

You are obviously mentally retarded, or simply trying to
exhaust people by repeating this rubbish again and again.
Since this is Giwer's trademark, and since you admitted
to using an alias, that's one more reason to suspect
you're Giwer.

It was explained to you, numerous times, that those
considered "unfit for work" were not housed, tagged,
fed, and deloused; they were gassed imemdiately upon
arrival to the camp.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 12:59:59 PDT 1996
Article: 60317 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.gi.net!news.mid.net!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4vp3ek$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4vrfbl$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 23:35:17 GMT
Lines: 25

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# There is no reason to post a lot of things that are
# posted here.  

Ok. So you're defending your repeated posting of a phone
number, which belongs to someone who is not, in any way,
related to the topics in this newsgroup, by saying
that there are other unrelated things posted here.

By that logic, you should not have a problem with anyone
posting the name, phone number, address etc. of your
father, right? I'm not suggesting to do it. I'm just
noting that you are saying it's ok to do things like
this. 

But you said that only a "sub-human" would do something
like that. 

This proves that you're a "sub-human" by your own
definition. No more, no less.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 16:03:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60362 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!mr.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vp598$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4vrgj0$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:28:33 GMT
Lines: 44

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# It is a frigging spreadsheet format you fool.  What is 
# your problem? Never heard of a spreadsheet? 

I use Unix on an HP workstation. Apparently it does not
recognize this format, although I could read in-between
the binary.

As a matter of fact, I heard about spreadsheets but
I'm really not into word-processing etc, moreover I
try to stay away from PC's as much as possible. Only
document processing I do is Latex. Thank God for Linux,
it's the best thing that happened to PC's.

# I made no such claim.

Yes you did.

 From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Date:         1996/08/10
 Message-Id:   <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
 
# Go take another look at it and note the amount released in 
# the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common 
# description of the time frame.  THEN calculate backwards to 
# find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve lethality 
# in that time frame.  
#
# And then, when you discover that two people could not carry 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# enough to do it, explain why they were in such a hurry to 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# kill when cremation was the bottleneck in the operation.  



Stick that into your spreadsheet, loudmouth.


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Aug 27 16:03:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60376 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vrgj0$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vtmel$di9@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:04:38 GMT
Lines: 53

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## moreover I try to stay away from PC's as much as possible. 

# No, you do not.  

Yes, I do. Hate them. They stink.

# You are claiming to use one under a different name. C 
# or J class?

HP workstation. I said so. You want to call it a PC? Fine,
call it a PC. Call it a holohugger. I don't care.

# A CS PhD who thinks spreadsheets are related to word
# processing.  It is truly amazing.

Don't know, don't care. I give up. What's a spreadsheet?

So complain and have my Ph.D revoked. Make me pay back
to Brown University the salary they paid me for 3 years.

Matt, computer science is not about document processing
and organizing or stuff like that. 

# Unix?  What to talk about it?  Or perhaps explain what you
# do with Linux?  You should have at least said C.

Want to talk about Unix? Go ahead. What do you want to
talk about? Great operating system IMHO.

Linux? It simulates Unix on a PC. Great thing. 

Where you put C into all this I don't know. Great programming
language. You can use it with Unix or with Windows. 

# This is an example of why Nizkor is being deliberately
# and willfully misleading in pirating only one side of a 
# discussion.  Now put it back into the context of the 
# temperature of a Polish winter in which it was cast.

No mention of temperature was made in the article, as far
as I recall. Moreover it makes no big difference, as the
Peters-Rasch paper explicitly states that even at very
low temperatures the evaporation of the HCN is hardly
slowed down. Moreover, the gas chambers were pretty hot,
after so many people were crammed into them.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 00:59:45 PDT 1996
Article: 60462 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Politics of Holohugging:  Theory
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vs9ho$96n@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <500af8$n0g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:49:29 GMT
Lines: 10

For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 00:59:45 PDT 1996
Article: 60463 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Convenience of Execution by Detonation
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5008ks$lv2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 04:24:23 GMT
Lines: 37

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

Well, well, look who's here. The guy who claims to be a
member of a "superior race". And who posted yesterday that
there should be "millions of tons" of ashes remaining from
the Holocaust. It's simple, folks: millions of victims, he
said, results in millions of tons of ashes. An error by a
factor of 500, at least.

"Superior race"... you miserable fool.

# In the Russians did precisely that:
#
# The prisoners were driven to a cliff
# that had been mined, and were blown into oblivion." 

I doubt this story. But suppose it's true. So what? Why
would the Nazis waste numerous amounts of explosives,
which are needed during a war, to kill people, when
4 Kg of Zyklon-B kill 2,000 people in 15 minutes?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 01:39:24 PDT 1996
Article: 60468 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Cogitations of Franz Liszt and alt.revisionism
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5006l4$la4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:29:44 GMT
Lines: 46

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# As the music drifted through my room, interwoven with
# submelodies and modulations, forming a winding ornate
# ribbon of transcendent harmony, I thought to myself:

Please explain the following claims you have posted:

1) "Millions of victims would have left millions of tons
    of ashes". This one proves you cannot handle basic
    arithmetic.

2) "Using HCN in the gas chambers would kill the German soldiers
   outside" (so how come there are cyanide traces on the walls?).

# I continued typing.

Yes, but you haven't defended your claims above.

Do you realize that 1 and 2 above prove that your intellectual
capabilities are more-or-less equal to those of a cockroach?

As a self-described member of a "superior race", isn't it
humiliating for you to be exposed, again and again, as a
babbling idiot, who does not even try to defend his arguments?

This can go on for years; the only change is that I'll
insert more and more profoundly idiotic statements that
you make. You realize this, don't you?


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 11:11:59 PDT 1996
Article: 136242 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.dacom.co.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!wilbur.ohww.norman.ok.us!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:19:00 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 11:24:36 PDT 1996
Article: 60544 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news1.slip.net!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:52:20 GMT
Lines: 33

 From the speech of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, speaking to SS
Major-Generals, Poznan, October 4 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 559]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we
must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own
blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,
does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer
in good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping
their children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in
prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we
need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest
to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion
while digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as
the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough
and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,
who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude
towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these
human animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry
about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and
grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When someone
comes to me and says, "I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women
and children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them", then I
would have to say, "you are a murderer of your own blood because
if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and
they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood".




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 11:24:37 PDT 1996
Article: 60546 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:51:53 GMT
Lines: 35

Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, 
October 4 and 6, 1943
[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
p. 469]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
that is what has made us hard.  This is a page of glory in our history
which has never been written and is never to be written.

I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 11:24:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60559 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Hoax revealed:  "Extermination" orders never found
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500737$le3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:48:44 GMT
Lines: 43

Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 11:24:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60593 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet-feed1!btnet!news.euro.net!xs4all!news.unisource.nl!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <500af1$n0b@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:27:43 GMT
Lines: 29

"kurt stele" writes:

[nothing of importance]

In one of his first articles on this newsgroup, not long
ago, the coward hiding under the "kurt stele" alias claimed
that it would have been impossible to use cyanide gas in
the gas chambers, as this would "kill the German soldiers
outside". 

Note that I challenged him, a few times, to defend this
claim, but he refuses to; he never responds. He also
refuses to explain how come there are cyanide compounds
on the walls of these gas chambers.

He claims to belong to a "superior race". Why, then, does
he refuse to debate this matter?

Is he too dumb?

Does he know that his claim is a lie?

How come a member of a "superior race" is such a stupid
coward? Can anyone explain? 


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 12:05:53 PDT 1996
Article: 60616 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <50094u$m3r@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:25:44 GMT
Lines: 46

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele), the untermench, writes:

# Keren, when or where did ever admit that I'm not using my
# real name?  

You said that, unter. Your text is preceded with "#":

Message-Id:   <4vahs8$45r@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To:     kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)

schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <4v8aih$qm7@basement.replay.com>, nobody@REPLAY.COM
(Anonymous)
>wrote:
 
>> They are pathetic creatures of the left.
> 
>Why do you hide under an anonymous handle?

# Why did jews in the Spanish inquisition "pretend" 
# to be christians?  

# Same principle.  

# You're a holohugger but I think you can figure it out.



# You are having holohugger hallucinations, here.  

You're senile, unter. You lie so much that you cannot
remember your lies any more.

# Why don't post this proof, along with where all the ashes of the
# millions alleged went off to. Did they also blow away in the wind?

No, a great deal were actually found in some of the camps.

Now show us the ashes of the millions of Germans you claim
died after the war.


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 12:05:54 PDT 1996
Article: 60624 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Hoax Revealed:  "Deathcamp" had a Hospital
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50070l$lde@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:52:07 GMT
Lines: 36

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/

furnace-capacity.jpg
Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.

Vergasungskeller.jpg
Document mentioning the "gassing cellar" in Krema II in
Birkenau.

Gas_Detector.jpg
Letter asking to deliver detectors for cyanide gas to
crematorium in Birkenau.

Krema4.jpg
Crematorium no. 4 in Birkenau.

krema5-01.jpg
Crematorium no. 5 in Birkenau.

auschwitz03.jpg, auschwitz04.jpg
Murdered inmates in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

auschwitz05.jpg
Young Polish children imprisoned in Auschwitz.


http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/mengele.josef/
images/Mengele.jpg
Gypsy children, tortured by SS doctor Mengele during his
"medical experiments" in Auschwitz.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 13:24:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60628 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'kurt stele', Mathematical Genius... (Re: Life and Fal
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:  <500afa$n0i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:02:59 GMT
Lines: 30

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# In reference to the tons of ashes from cremated bodies
# that would have existed had the Holohoax been true, but
# mysteriously were never found,

You claimed that "millions of tons of ashes" should have been
found. That's an over-estimate by a factor of at least 500,
assuming you meant "one million".

You're mentally retarded. You cannot handle basic arithmetic.

And you claim to belong to a "superior race".

You're a joke.

# suffice it to say Keren that there are a "shitload" of ashes
# you still haven't found, 

A great deal of ashes have been found. In Treblinka and Maidanek.

# Is that better?

Why don't you answer the question about the missing remains
of the millions of Germans you claim died after the war?


-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 18:15:05 PDT 1996
Article: 60682 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Zyklon-B and HCN
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:31:03 GMT
Lines: 44

More "scientific hilites" from Matt Giwer:



 From:         mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
Message-Id:   <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this
>is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released
>within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh,
>in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent
>in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent
>to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself.

>There is more information to support the faster release rates;
>I'll post it soon.

 Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any 
release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.  And keep 
in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm 
enough.  That is, the second half hour would be another 40% 
of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour.



The stupid clown claims that, at a temperature of
20 degrees, no HCN will be released from the Zyklon.

Can anyone believe how stupid Giwer is?

Even at far lower temperatures, we know that the HCN
evaporates pretty fast. Zyklon-B was routinely used at far
lower temperatures than 20 degrees. 

His "claim" is more-or-less equivalent to asserting
that there can be no humidity in the air if the 
temperature is below the boiling point of water 
(100 Celsius that is)...

He is *so* stupid.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 22:56:28 PDT 1996
Article: 60688 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Parades His Reasoning (One For the Quote Files)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:32:24 GMT
Lines: 8

In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 22:56:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60698 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Arithmetic
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:30:10 GMT
Lines: 34

Giwer recently claimed that the amount of Zyklon-B, necessary
to kill people in the gas chambers in 10-15 minutes, was too
much for two men to carry on a ladder:

 From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
 Date:         1996/08/10
 Message-Id:   <4uhhvo$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
 
# Go take another look at it and note the amount released in 
# the 10-15 minute time frame which is the most common 
# description of the time frame.  THEN calculate backwards to 
# find the amount that had to be dumped in to achieve lethality 
# in that time frame.  
#
# And then, when you discover that two people could not carry 
# enough to do it, explain why they were in such a hurry to 
# kill when cremation was the bottleneck in the operation.  



A trivial calculation, which I posted, shows the weight 
to be 3 Kg. And this, in the largest gas chambers, in
which there were 4 openings; that's 3/4 of a Kg for 
each SS-man. 8 Kg (2 Kg per SS-man) would result in
an even faster death. Is Giwer claiming that an SS-man
could not carry such an amount?

There is nothing "miraculous" about the facts of the
Holocaust; the only miracle we see here is the fact that 
Giwer managed to stay employed till he was 46-years-old 
(when he retired).


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 22:56:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60706 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:13:37 GMT
Lines: 27

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

# Yes, a "gas"tight door would be expected.  It would also
# be airtight to keep out the direct effects of the overpressure
# of a bomb or shell.

Sigh. He never gives up, does he?

Why does only one of the underground morgues have a gas-tight
door? If both were shelters, both would have them, right?

The answer is simple. The gas chamber, or "gassing cellar"
as it is described in the documents, needed a gas-tight door.

The other cellar was the so-called "undressing room", and
it didn't need a gas-tight door.


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 22:56:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60714 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Hoax Revealed:  "Deathcamp" had a Hospital
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50070l$lde@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:31:27 GMT
Lines: 100

Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
VIII, p. 313-321]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
   I was very much shaken emotionally.
 
 .
 .
 .


Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
   gassed at Auschwitz?

A. Yes.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
   beings were being gassed and exterminated?

A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
   Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
   completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
   me and my family to be liquidated very quickly, because the Gestapo 
   was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
   secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
   worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
   closest friend about it, because experience taught us that anybody 
   who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
   Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
   Auschwitz.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
   Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
   days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?

A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
   commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
   and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
   masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
   people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
   treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
   were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
   especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
   like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
   and well-functioning washrooms. 

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
   beings?

A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

 .
 .
 .

Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
   in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
   sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
   to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
   at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
   edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?

A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
   were gassed.


Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
   Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
   of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?

A. Also to be gassed.




-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Aug 28 22:56:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60715 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Tom Moran's Forgery Of Prufer's Testimony
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:26:47 GMT
Lines: 135

Tom Moran's documented forgery of Kurt Prufer's testimony.
Moran added questions that were never asked and answers
that were never given; moreover, he didn't hint that these
were his own invention, but tried to pass them on as part
of the real Q&A's.



>From  tm@pacificnet.net Tue Mar  5 16:06:27 EST 1996
Article: 73393 of alt.revisionism
Xref: world alt.revisionism:73393
Path: world!uunet!in2.uu.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Engineers, I
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 1996 16:33:37 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <3139c63e.6801197@news.pacificnet.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-0.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141
Status: R

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt,
>Germany, March 5, 1946
>[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?
> 
>A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were
>   done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" 
>   [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.
> 
>Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?
> 
>A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders
>   of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in
>   spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn
>   1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The
>   forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the
>   fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the
>   intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the
>   front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because 
>   there were not enough workers.

 Q. When you say "a krema" which one exactly?  

 A. Well I don't know which one exactly? It could have been II, III,
IV or V.

 Q. When you say there weren't enough workers, are you saying you
couldn't have gotten 100 or even 200 men, women and children out of
the hundred thousand to dismantle the building.

 A. Well, ah, we ah ... 

 Q. When you say "relocated" do you mean take the brick buildings
apart piece by piece and rebuild them else where?

 A. Yes.

 Q. And where was the alternate site to be located?

 A. Well, since the front was getting closer, we were figuring on
moving it further west, maybe even moving the whole operation to a
ship in the North Sea.

>Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?
> 
>A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time.
>   I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages,
>   which were being prepared for incineration.  That was at 10 in the 
>   morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the
>   conclusion that the furnaces were working well.
> 
>Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?
> 
>A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and
>   the crematorium there was a connecting structure.

 Q. By "connecting structure" do you mean they were not all one in the
same?

 A. Well, yes.

 Q. And which Krema was this?

 A. Well I'm not sure. It could have been II,III, IV or V.
> 
>Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took
>   place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
> 
>A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being
>   liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were 
>   subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.
> 
>Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
> 
>A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers;
>   and he installed them.
> 
>Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?
> 
>A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the
>   furnaces was colossal.

 Q. So I take it you came up with a good solution to this failure
since you had no more problems. Was this problem only at teh one
particular Krema, due to some mistake at teat Krema alone, or did you
have trouble with the rest?

 A. No. It was just this one. Evidentally the mortar wasn't mixed
right.
>
>
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>-- 
>Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.
>
>-Lu Xun.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 29 00:56:45 PDT 1996
Article: 60736 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Holohugger's fall-back: "Nazis were crazy, stupid"
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500836$lod@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:18:48 GMT
Lines: 39

kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

# The holohuggers' theory has several inconsistencies within
#  it.  For example, the nazis supposedly shot 3 million people 
# but then the nazis supposedly began using gas chambers.  Why?  
# There are far more effective and economic ways than "gassing" 
# to exterminate:  

Gassing saved ammunition, which is very important in war
time. But we've been through this.

4 Kg of Zyklon-B kill 2,000 people in 15 minutes. Very
cheap, very fast, wastes no ammunition.

# Note the "gas" referred to is Zyklon-B the insecticide.

Zyklon-B releases HCN, the same gas used for execution in
gas chambers in US prisons.

You cannot think. But then again, you're the same person
who claimed that million of victims would have left "millions
of tons of ashes".


-Danny Keren.

 ----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:

 From:         kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
 Message-Id:   <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 29 07:27:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60755 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Hoax revealed:  "Extermination" orders never found
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500737$le3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3223fecd.21952039@news>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 21:44:37 GMT
Lines: 30

Report from Kube, General Commissioner of White Ruthenia,
to Gauleiter Lohse, Reich Commissioner for the Ostland,
31 July 1942
[Quoted from "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg
 Military Tribunals", Vol. IV, pages 191-193]
 ---------------------------------------------------------

During detailed consultations with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner 
and the extremely capable Chief of the SD, 
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we found that we had 
liquidated approximately 55,000 Jews in White Ruthenia during 
the past 10 weeks. In the Minsk-Land area, the Jewry was completely 
exterminated without endangering the allocation of labor in any way. 
In the prevailing Polish Lida area, 16,000 Jews, in Slonim 8,000
Jews, etc., were liquidated. 

[...]

In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and
29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews - mainly old people, women,
and children - the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most 
of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin
in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders.




-Danny Keren.




From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 29 07:27:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60774 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Hoax Revealed:  "Deathcamp" had a Hospital
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50070l$lde@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 06:32:13 GMT
Lines: 17

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/
images/report-51.jpg

A report to Hitler, mentions that over 360,000 Jews
were executed during August-November 1942.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/wetzel.erhard/
images/wetzel-lohse-01.jpg and images/wetzel-lohse-02.jpg

Letter from Dr. Wetzel to Lohse, about the plan to kill
with poison gas Jews "unfit for work".


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Aug 29 14:14:07 PDT 1996
Article: 60889 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 18:28:41 GMT
Lines: 55

Yet again, our 163-IQ'ed "leading revisionist", Matt Giwer,
proves that, to summarize it shortly, he knows nothing about
nothing, especially when technical matters are concerned:

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.

# There is none from a diesel engine.  Even you
# should know that.  

"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:

Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).

## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).

# Not a diesel.  

Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong 
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is 
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios 
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the 
exhaust.

Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.

Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about.

The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.


-Danny Keren.


From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Aug 30 14:13:00 PDT 1996
Article: 61066 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!demos!Gamma.RU!srcc!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vtmel$di9@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <500var$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 22:02:59 GMT
Lines: 58

mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

# Which class?  They are HP designations.

It's a workstation, Matt. That's how people call it.
Not a PC. Running the "model" command on it gives: 
9000/770/J210. Hope you're happy.

# No PhD CS type would have to ask that question.  It has 
# been a classic question of dense and sparse packed array
# representation for two decades.  

To the best of my knowledge, spreadsheets are document
organizing tools, Matt. I'm not interested in this kind
of stuff. I use Unix, and I program in C, matlab, X-maple.
To write papers, I use Latex.

Your knowledge of science is so superficial that you
cannot tell apart the tools and the core of the matter.

You're like someone who claims that the important thing
in mathematics is the board one writes the formulas on.

You somehow managed to graduate with a B.Sc 30 years
ago. I honestly can't understand how; maybe something
happened to you during those 30 years, some kind of
brain damage, loss of sanity, early senility - I can
only guess. But, Matt, you're not what you think you
are. Your position in the universe is not what you
think it is.

## Want to talk about Unix? Go ahead. What do you want to
## talk about? Great operating system IMHO.
##
## Linux? It simulates Unix on a PC. Great thing. 
## 
## Where you put C into all this I don't know. Great programming
## language. You can use it with Unix or with Windows. 

# I am laughing at you.  Those three paragraphs are a challenge 
# to count the errors.  

Go ahead.

Name the errors.

But then again, you also claimed that Einstein was the one
who introduced different orders of infinity.

Face it, Matt. You don't know anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. 


-Danny Keren.






From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 31 10:04:21 PDT 1996
Article: 61227 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3224acd3.16451211@news.spry.com> <506c3b$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 13:10:37 GMT
Lines: 17

[In response to a post from Matt Giwer's spreadsheet - some
glitch prevents me from quoting it]

Yes, the euthanasia gas chambers were smaller; they were meant
to kill a far smaller number of people. To the best of my 
knowledge, they all used bottled CO. 

When the killing in Belzec started, bottled CO was also used
(Oberhauser's testimony). Not a surprising choice, since
Wirth - who ran Belzec - "worked" in the euthanasia centers
before that. However, it was soon realized that it was simpler
to use engines, which give out a lot of poison gas, than to
transport large amounts of bottled CO.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 31 10:04:22 PDT 1996
Article: 61231 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50917g$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 13:31:43 GMT
Lines: 25

Well, all this is very touching, but it still doesn't explain
how 50,000 died in the camp, if the Nazis were such great guys.

These lame excuses didn't help Kramer. We know how he ended.
Must have been a thick rope, because Kramer, as one can see
in the photos, surely didn't suffer from any lack of food; nor
did any of the other SS staff.

Re the water supply: p. 54 of "The Belsen Trial". 

Testimony of Major Berney:

"To restore the water supply we utilized the fire pumps
and hose which we found inside the camp to pump water from
a river to the camp itself".

When asked "did you find any reason why water should not have
been provided in that camp?", Major Berney replied: "I can
think of none".


-Danny Keren.





From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 31 10:04:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61240 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: defenders oif Keren
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5042ld$ff2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <32261111.5F75@unb.ca> <29AUG199616015160@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:46:46 GMT
Lines: 7

So Giwer, can you define the classes P and NP for us?

Can you tell us if they're equal?


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 31 10:04:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61242 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com>  <502sor$8lf@Vir.com> <505mrj$uii@Vir.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:52:49 GMT
Lines: 15

AFAIK, the recording covers only the first paragraph.

The one with the "most of you know what it is to see 100 corpses
lying side by side, or 500, or a 1,000".

Some "evacuation". 

BTW, the paragraph where Himmler speaks on the Slavs as "human
animals", and states that he doesn't care if 10,000 Russian
women die while digging an anti-tank ditch for Germany, is
also in the recording, and as a .wav file on Nizkor's site.


-Danny Keren.



From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 31 10:04:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61254 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: defenders oif Keren
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5042ld$ff2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 12:29:33 GMT
Lines: 15

If Giwer is so smart, and everybody else here so stupid,
how come Giwer doesn't have a job (poor fellow had to
retire at 46, there was no one dumb enough to hire him,
apparently), and we all have jobs?


-Danny Keren.

 ---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.




From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Aug 31 21:00:42 PDT 1996
Article: 137414 of control
Control: cancel 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 14:27:16 GMT
Lines: 1

 was cancelled from within trn.

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