The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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From buehler@sybil.mit.edu Wed Jul 26 15:45:20 PDT 1995
Article: 24378 of alt.revisionism
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From: buehler@sybil.mit.edu (Royce Buehler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.christian,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Ben discusses netiquette [was: Royce Buehler-here to make the mood LIAR]
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This post deals with Ben's personal charges against me. I post it here because
he has made it clear he will regard any email from me as actionable. (I have
sent him email exactly once.) Those of you not interested in watching tiresome
dirty laundry washed can move to the next post now. :-)

In article , bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Benjamin Johnson) writes:
> For those who haven't followed Royce and my exchanges before, let me set
> the stage of his multiple lies. 

This is known among logicians as the fallacy of "well-poisoning".

> This good "Christian" boy, whose ability
> to post on my threads was revoked last Spring after he slandered me a few
> too many times,

Ben has delusions of grandeur. What he means is, he grew sufficiently angered
at my exposure of him that he complained to my system administrator, demanding
that my net privileges be revoked. Of course, that wouldn't happen unless
I engaged in slander (which I have not) or in harassment (such as his baseless
hasslings of my admin, which *are* a serious breach of netiquette, if not
harassment in their own right.)

The only way Ben can deal with the truth is to attempt to censor it.

> has made the following lies about me in our past exchanges

Let's take a look. Some are, so far as I can tell, true statements about
him. Others Ben is just imagining I said.

> 1.  That I have ever advocated a racial annihilation of Jews.

I never claimed he does so publicly. I *deduce* this belief from his public
posts. Ben's claim is that he wishes to annihilate only the vast majority
of Jews whom he considers adherents of the Jewish religion. This does not
square with the evidence of his posts, in that:

  a) He has affirmed he would "love to kill" one poster and his wife and
      children, when all he knew was that the individual was "Jewish" - no
      religious opinions having being expressed.
  b) He constantly attempts to prove that Jews are God's enemies by
      proving that they are descendants of Esau - a purely racial criterion.
  c) He denigrates those he regards as Jews - for example, the Rockefellers
    - despite their lifelong membership in Christian churches.

> 2.  I call non-whites "mud people."

On one occasion, while summarizing what appeared to be Ben's beliefs, I
used this expression. I did not assert he individually had used it. According
to reliable authorities, it is a phrase commonly used among Identity adherents.
Ben denies ever having used it. I accept that, and I did apologize for possibly
leaving the impression that he personally had used it. Ever since, Ben has
gone on using this as an example of my supposed unfairness.

Incidentally, Ben, people are interested in your true views about non-whites.
So how about answering this question, which you've ducked so many times
before? In your opinion, should non-whites in the United States be allowed
to vote?

> 3.  I am REALLY a Nazi using Christian rhetoric to mislead the good
>   Christian folks on .... alt.revisionism?? :)

Where he posts from, I don't know. His stuff shows up on Christian groups,
which is generally where I respond from. If it walks like a Nazi, talks like
a Nazi, believes and spreads the same lies about Jews as a Nazi, and wants
to do to Jews what the Nazis did... what *should* I conclude?

> 4.  I've never read the Bible.

Beats me what rhetorical flourish I might have made that Ben interprets this
way. He has certainly never read the Bible with understanding, and all his
Identity ideas come from reading literature from hate groups. But those are
separate questions.

> 5.  I really deny Christ behind everyone's back.

Ben misunderstands my point. I think he imagines that he is a Christian.
However, right out in front of God and everybody, he is worshipping Satan,
worshipping the idol of his own white skin, and pretending to himself that
it's all right because the name he gives this idol is "Christ". He is no
doubt sincere in this. He is no doubt unaware of the true nature of his
"deity", and the danger it puts his soul in. But giving this self-worship,
devil-worship, and ancestor-worship the name of "Christ" does not make it
better. It makes it worse. Knowingly or not, it adds blasphemy against God
on to Identity's sins against their neighbors.

>  He and I will not be exchanging words regularly, due to his
> insanity-and his nearly fanatical devotion to me (showing up repeating his
> known and admitted lies on every discussion not moderated).  
 
Indeed? What moderated groups are your weirdo racial theories showing up
on? The ones I've been watching don't seem to be letting that kind of
material past. When you post on ordinary theological topics, I don't bother
replying, because I haven't had any major quarrel with what you're saying.

I *do* tend to reply to your antisemitic and racial nonsense wherever I see
it. That's because it is not merely wrong, but dangerous to Jews and blacks,
poisonous to the spirits of Christians that may get tangled up in it, and
dishonoring to my Lord Jesus Christ. If that's fanaticism, you'll just have
to get used to it.

-- 
Royce Buehler	buehler@space.mit.edu	(617)-253-9766
   "Something the leprechauns asked when I was a sprout in Indiana
    has always puzzled me."



From bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu Wed Jul 26 20:58:56 PDT 1995
Article: 24408 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.christian,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish
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From: bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Benjamin Johnson)
Subject: Re: Ben Johnson's heritage
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In article <3uv7fu$ke8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> jwccti1@aol.com (JWCCTI1) writes:
>Ben-Trash making a case for being among the Elect who get to go to
>   heaven and be together for ALL eternity, and then some, said:
>
>
>>   Germanic, Celtic and kindred peoples of Europe
>appear
>>   exactly at the time Israel DISappears from history, bear the marks of
>>   Israel.  They are Israel. 
>
>Ben, a lot of Arabs have made the mistake of saying that Israel had
>disappeared. Wishing it so does not make it happen, crackpot!
>
     Exactly my point; modern day "Jews" claim to be descended from the
Judahites of Palestine who were brought to Europe by the Romans.  Even if
this were the case, there would be 10 other tribes to account for.  It's
NOT the case, but what's a mindless slap at a non-existent contradiction
between friends?  

-BJ



From bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu Thu Jul 27 14:16:01 PDT 1995
Article: 6964 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
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From: bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Benjamin Johnson)
Subject: Re: BLOWING THE LID OFF A JEW CONSPIRACY!
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In article <3v365a$v5c@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
>In article <3v1nmp$90p@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, solysombra@aol.com says...
> >
> >I started reading some of the old articles in the Journal of History
> >Review about the arguments against the existance of gas chambers in
> >concentration camps and against the claim that 6 million Jews died in  the
> >Holocaust. What do you guys think about it? Have you read anything from
> >Diwald, Nolte, Beard, Mark Weber, Barnes, etc..? What do you think about
> >the theory hold by these revisionist that the Holocaust did not really
> >exist as we know it? 
>
>The Journal for Historical Review is the organ of the Institute for 
>Historical Review. The IHR was founded by Willis Carto, famous mostly as a 
>professional antisemite who was later given the boots in a palace coup for 
>alleged mismanagement of funds. 

Get it-if it was ever in any way related to Carto, it obviously can't be
true.  If Carto held a copy of Einstein's Theory of Relativity in his
hands at some date, it must ipso facto be false.  Start thinkin' there!!!

-Ben


From bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu Thu Jul 27 14:20:02 PDT 1995
Article: 6723 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Benjamin Johnson)
Subject: Re: BLOWING THE LID OFF A JEW CONSPIRACY!
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In article <3v365a$v5c@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
>In article <3v1nmp$90p@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, solysombra@aol.com says...
> >
> >I started reading some of the old articles in the Journal of History
> >Review about the arguments against the existance of gas chambers in
> >concentration camps and against the claim that 6 million Jews died in  the
> >Holocaust. What do you guys think about it? Have you read anything from
> >Diwald, Nolte, Beard, Mark Weber, Barnes, etc..? What do you think about
> >the theory hold by these revisionist that the Holocaust did not really
> >exist as we know it? 
>
>The Journal for Historical Review is the organ of the Institute for 
>Historical Review. The IHR was founded by Willis Carto, famous mostly as a 
>professional antisemite who was later given the boots in a palace coup for 
>alleged mismanagement of funds. 

Get it-if it was ever in any way related to Carto, it obviously can't be
true.  If Carto held a copy of Einstein's Theory of Relativity in his
hands at some date, it must ipso facto be false.  Start thinkin' there!!!

-Ben


From bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu Thu Jul 27 23:05:42 PDT 1995
Article: 24478 of alt.revisionism
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From: bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Benjamin Johnson)
Subject: Re: BLOWING THE LID OFF A JEW CONSPIRACY!
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In article <3v365a$v5c@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
>In article <3v1nmp$90p@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, solysombra@aol.com says...
> >
> >I started reading some of the old articles in the Journal of History
> >Review about the arguments against the existance of gas chambers in
> >concentration camps and against the claim that 6 million Jews died in  the
> >Holocaust. What do you guys think about it? Have you read anything from
> >Diwald, Nolte, Beard, Mark Weber, Barnes, etc..? What do you think about
> >the theory hold by these revisionist that the Holocaust did not really
> >exist as we know it? 
>
>The Journal for Historical Review is the organ of the Institute for 
>Historical Review. The IHR was founded by Willis Carto, famous mostly as a 
>professional antisemite who was later given the boots in a palace coup for 
>alleged mismanagement of funds. 

Get it-if it was ever in any way related to Carto, it obviously can't be
true.  If Carto held a copy of Einstein's Theory of Relativity in his
hands at some date, it must ipso facto be false.  Start thinkin' there!!!

-Ben


From bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu Fri Jul 28 13:03:37 PDT 1995
Article: 24538 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.christian,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish
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From: bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Benjamin Johnson)
Subject:  Royce Buehler-here to make the mood LIAR
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In article <3v09lt$9pp@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> buehler@sybil.mit.edu (Royce Buehler) writes:
>
>Ben Johnson summarizes his lunacies with a straight face: 
>
     Royce Buehler, I can't believe they let you out of the cage again.

For those who haven't followed Royce and my exchanges before, let me set
the stage of his multiple lies.  This good "Christian" boy, whose ability
to post on my threads was revoked last Spring after he slandered me a few
too many times, has made the following lies about me in our past exchanges
without as much as the Chrisian conscience to apologize after admitting he
made everything up:
1.  That I have ever advocated a racial annihilation of Jews.
2.  I call non-whites "mud people."
3.  I am REALLY a Nazi using Christian rhetoric to mislead the good
  Christian folks on .... alt.revisionism?? :)
4.  I've never read the Bible.
5.  I really deny Christ behind everyone's back.

These are just a sample of the mental tergiversations Senor Buehler is
capable of.  He and I will not be exchanging words regularly, due to his
insanity-and his nearly fanatical devotion to me (showing up repeating his
known and admitted lies on every discussion not moderated).  

>
>
      Ah-so you can show me where in the OT "rabbis" are sanctioned?

>>      The question is-what happened to these tribes?  According to the
>> prophecies, they would accept the New Covenant. 
>
>In the Messianic era. The Jewish scriptures don't distinguish between a
>first and second coming of Messiah; so it doesn't follow that Israel would
>accept the New Covenant at the first coming. In fact, Romans 9-11 
>
     So Romans 9-11 are part of the "Jewish Scriptures"?  C'mon, Roy, if I
can't use that term about the Talmud, which at least Jews *pay heed to,*
how in the world can you justify use of that term with Romans, the 6th
book in the New Testament, which I seriously doubt most Jews have ever read?

>spells out
>for Christians the fact that this acceptance has yet to occur, after "the
>fullness of the nations has come in". 
>
     Romans 9-11 does not state the conversion of the "Jews" will happen
at the end of time, except in some "fundamentalist" interpretations (The
same interpretations that say Satan will use invade the body of a Jewish
Roman Catholic Pope [yeah,whatever] and set up that NASTY 1-world UN
government to kill Christians-ooh, booga, booga, booga!).
     If nothing else, the "end of the age" (Greek word for "world"-aion)
occurred in 70 A.D.-the fulfillment of the Book of Revelation, which has
been argued out on soc.religion.christian and soc.religion.bible-study not
that long ago.  The "age" of OT Temple worship, which Jesus the Christ
told the woman at the well would end in John 4, ended when it was
destroyed by Roman conquerors, as was prophesied in Matt. 24, Luke 21 and
Mark 13.  
     Romans 9-11 gives an urgency to the conversion-that it was to come
about shortly,  like the book of Revelation said it was to be fulfilled
"shortly" in Rev. 1:1. (pretty good for a Nazi who denies Christ every
night, Roycie). 

>> Seeing whom, for example,
>> Peter and James addressed their epistles to shows that Christianity was
>> bodied with Israelites-it was to be their religion forever. 
>
>Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. The others were apostles to the twelve
>tribes. So of course they address their epistles that way. To prove his point,
>Ben would have to exhibit a letter from Paul addressed in this fashion. He
>can't, because his whole idea that the Gentiles = Israel is made up out of
>whole cloth to support his racism.
>
     Check Romans, which talks about "our father Abraham," or I Timothy
which talks about the Scriptures that Timothy knew since he was a boy-let
me guess, these are "GENTILE" Scriptures!  No duobt, Swamp Toad.
     Incidentally, Buehler's habit of addressing YOU the reader directly
about "Ben" in the 3rd person is one he stole from me.  I started
employing it in our discussion when he started lying unrepentantly, and I
saw he wasn't interested in anything but hearing himself type. 
     As far as his "Gentile" bit-"Gentiles" is from the Latin word
"gentilis" which means "other."  BUDDHISTS use it to describe
non-Buddhists, as do Mormons to denote non-Mormons.  "Gentiles" in the NT
is used by the "Jews" (that is, members of the house of Judah) to talk
about those who are not part of the covenant with God.  God preserved His
covenant with the tribes of Judah until the coming of Christ.  
     By NT times, the 10 tribes of Israel had been divorced, which Bible
expert Buehler would know if he read the Book of Jeremiah.  Thus, after
their divorcement and "sowing amongst the nations," they WERE NOT part of
the covenant-they were "Gentiles" as far as the house of Judah was
concerned!  They accepted heathen ways from the "nations" they were sown
amongst and seemed to disappear.  However, Hosea 1-2 forcasts for
them to return to the covenant (that is, the New Covenant), as does
Jeremiah 31:31, Ezekiel 36, etc.; and it promises they will become mighty
nations until the time they do.  Compare Hosea 1-2 with Ephesians 2, and
you'll see who the "Ephesians" were.

>> The majority
>> of the Christians in the course of history have been the Anglo-Saxon,
>> Germanic, Celtic and kindred peoples of Europe.  These people, who appear
>> exactly at the time Israel DISappears from history, bear the marks of
>> Israel.  They are Israel.  
>
>Bull hockey.
>
     If this is your idea of debate....you'll fit in great around here.

>>       The majority of "Jews" of today (Azerkhenazic) admit to having been
>> writings.  The Khazarian kings admitted that they came to Khazaria from
>> Mt. Seir, which was the home of the Edomites-the descendants of Jacob's
>
>Not according to Ben's chief reference on the Khazars, Arthur Koestler.
>Koestler says the Khazarian kings traced their ancestry to Japheth, a son of
>Noah who was not in the Abrahamic line at all.
>
      Yes, but the Encyclopedia Judaica and the Jewish Encyclopedia
reproduce the Khazarian king's testimony that he migrated from Mt. Seir. 
Those are *officially sanctioned* Jewish books, not the work of a maverick
Jewish writer like the 13th tribe.

>Anyone who thinks this worth following up on to the point of communicating
>with Ben by email - feel free to email me for "the rest of the story",
>especially as concerns Identity's tactics for reading their warped ideology
>back into the Bible.
>
     Be prepared for more of his lies.

In Christ Jesus-the King and Savior of Israel,
Ben Johnson
bjohnson@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu




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