The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/h/hall.kevin.davidson/1997/thrd2.txt


Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Michael  S. Curtis, 105135,436        4/15/97 10:54 AM
From :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,3627#590262
 
Thanks for coping my stuff to your friends; I am sure they will add it to my
extensive file; I want my own index like David Irving has.
 
If they post it, it will be treated as a great compliment and will ensure that
my material gets to a far wider audience than I could achive on my own - so
thanks again.
 
Now why do Nizkor keep files on people like David Irving and  myself or indeed
anyone else that writes anything they don't like in a place such as this?
 
I bet they have some sort of smart answer for it, but I also bet that
regardless of their outlook on life, most members of this forum, and indeed
most Americans would not care to be spied on/monitored in this way.
 
I would welcome comments.
 
KDH
 
 
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,36274/15/97 12:24 PM
From :  Michael  S. Curtis, 105135,436        #590287
 
Message text written by Kevin Davidson Hall
KDH>Thanks for coping my stuff to your friends; I am sure they will add it to
my extensive file; I want my own index like David Irving has.
 
I haven't sent any of your stuff to Nizkor. Sorry. I haven't found your
postings to be of great quality.
 
KDH>If they post it, it will be treated as a great compliment and will ensure
that my material gets to a far wider audience than I could achive on my own -
so thanks again.
 
I haven't sent any of your stuff to Nizkor. Sorry. I haven't found your
postings to be of great quality.
 
KDH>Now why do Nizkor keep files on people like David Irving and  myself or
indeed anyone else that writes anything they don't like in a place such as
this?
 
They have a file on me. Go figure, eh? :-)
 
KDH>I bet they have some sort of smart answer for it, but I also bet that
regardless of their outlook on life, most members of this forum, and indeed
most Americans would not care to be spied on/monitored in this way.
 
First you thank me for doing something I haven't done and then you complain.
Doesn't the pointed fence hurt?
 
KDH>I would welcome comments.
 
Oh, me too. :-)
 
Mike Curtis
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,36274/15/97  1:07 PM
From :  Michael  S. Curtis, 105135,436        #590297
 
Message text written by Kevin Davidson Hall
>Thanks for coping my stuff to your friends; I am sure they will add it to my
extensive file; I want my own index like David Irving has. <
 
I did some checking, Mr. Hall and Nizkor only has one quote from him, 3.5K of a
Compuserve discussion from April 96.  Compare to e.g. the half-megabyte 
of public postings from Mike Curtis.  Nizkor understands that Mr. Hall may 
object to public archives of his public postings;  we're sorry if it 
makes him uncomfortable that people might remember what he has said.
 
Mike Curtis
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Michael  S. Curtis, 105135,436        4/16/97  3:27 AM
From :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,3627#590614
 
I am quite delighted to be reminded of what I said, and hope that many many
more people will access it as well.
 
KDH
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Michael  S. Curtis, 105135,436        4/20/97  6:21 PM
From :  Jim R. Horn, 110061,723                #592275
 
Not sure where to come down on this files stuff.  A lot of people kicked up a
fuss when the FBI kept newspaper clippings on famous people, and, closer to
home, Army MI was detailed by LBJ to photograph people "publicly" demonstrating
against the war.  BTW, Hitler posted marks on gun owners houses, supposedly to
support the idea that a "Yeager" or hunter, with a gun was a quasi official, in
absence of the concept of citizens arrest.  There is always a good reason and a
REAL reason, J.P Morgan used to say.  We know what Hitler did with the marks
when he wanted to round up all the guns.   He gave the NRA an argument into
eternity.  I do not have a gun in the house, but this intense stuff 'bout guns
bothers me, not changing the subject.
 
Some of the right wing outfits were supposed to have lists of congressmen, good
and bad, for when the bombs began to fall.  The purpose was to make sure the
right people got to the hotel bomb shelter in West Virgina.
 
Jim
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Jim R. Horn, 110061,723                4/20/97 11:04 PM
From :  Don F. Eyres, 104312,661        #592364
 
Jim,
 
>> A lot of people kicked up a fuss when the FBI kept newspaper clippings on
famous people, and, closer to home, Army MI was detailed by LBJ to photograph
people "publicly" demonstrating against the war.
 
        There are at least three different levels of "info gathering" here
which we should talk about.
 
1) The government/law enforcement agencies keeping files of "non-public" data
on individuals. This, unless a legitimate reason can be given (and "political
enemy" is not legitimate) is definitely wrong.
 
2) The government/law enforcement agencies keeping files of public information-
in effect newspaper clippings. I don't know what the rules are but IMO there is
nothing wrong with it as the information is in the public domain anyway.
 
3) A private entity (group, organization, citizen, etc) keeping files or data
on a person. There is nothing whatsoever illegal about this, as long as the
data is collected by legitimate means. In fact, it is a constitutional right-
freedom of speech. Such an arrangement can also be seen as a library or
research center. 
        There may be an issue about data which is considered private. I don't
see that as applying to the Nizkor site, as my understanding is that they
simply record statements made in public settings. 
 
        The comments by Kevin Hall and other bigots about the Nizkor site
"collecting data" are nothing more than an attempt to shift the arguement by
attacking those who oppose them. Mr. Hall in particular has made quite a number
of attempts to do so in this forum, having been made to look monumentally silly
 in his attempts to otherwise persuade us all that the Holocaust never
happened.
 
        V/R
        DFE
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Don F. Eyres, 104312,661        4/22/97 12:34 AM
From :  Jim R. Horn, 110061,723                #592638
 
>>3) A private entity (group, organization, citizen, etc) keeping files or data
on a person. There is nothing whatsoever illegal about this, as long as the
data is collected by legitimate means. In fact, it is a constitutional right-
freedom of speech. Such an arrangement can also be seen as a library or
research center.>>
 
Nothing illegal?  Unfortunately the Vice Perpertrator and Bill's boys have
spoiled such phrases for us, along with "there is no definitive legal
precident."  The latter means, I suppose that even though something is against
the law, no one has been both caught and convicted yet.  As for freedom of
speech, I am not sure I follow you.  People are free to say what they please,
but I find nothing about keeping extensive files on folks guaranteed in the
constitution.  When one makes claim to such a right, they are saying they have
a right superior to all government, which is specifically prohibited from doing
the same thing without giving copies to the person affected.  Oddly enough, I
just went through this with a club recently, where officers refused to provide
a copy of a memo to a person demeaned and insulted by a really bad back biting
piece of work by one of the club officers.  The "privacy" of the club officer
was cited as the reason.  Of course, the memo was used as a weapon, prior to
this, being passed around to everyone else.  That is how my consulting client
learned about it.  Such an act is prohibited by parlimentary law, which rules
club operations, and we are having a gay old time with the issue.  We have not
gotten an official copy of the memo yet, because the perp enjoys a substantial
majority, but frankly, they are making a mistake, since this simply allows us
to drag the issue out.  Love this free speech.
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Jim R. Horn, 110061,723                4/22/97  1:56 AM
From :  James Downs, 74333,537                #592654
 
An interesting subject...are you saying that if I clip newspaper stories which
mention you, get a copy  of of your birth certificate and other public
documents on file and available and record all other information I can get
about you that have violated your rights or that you can make me give them to
you or throw them away or something...I'm not at all sure you are right ,,,but
I'd like to see the piint argued a bit more. As for your question...yes indeed
I , at least, think that in some cases we do have rights which we can exercise
as individuals which we will not as a polity allow the government to exercise.
 
 
regards
\
 
Jim
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Jim R. Horn, 110061,723                4/22/97  6:07 AM
From :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,3627#592667
 
A very good mesage; in the UK we have a Data Protection Registrar, with whom
anyone wanting to store records on computer has to register and who adjudicates
in cases of dispute.
 
It is to the registrar that one can apply to see any records that are/may be
held and the registrar can order that corrections be made.
 
I must say I agree with you that there is something rather distastful and
almost unamerican about the way that these people seem to operarate.
 
KDH
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Jim R. Horn, 110061,723                4/21/97  7:58 AM
From :  Michael  S. Curtis, 105135,436        #592392
 
Message text written by Jim R. Horn
>Not sure where to come down on this files stuff. <
 
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this but there are two services that I
know of that archive USENET. One is DejaNews. 
www.dejanews.com  Usenet is a _public_ forum. Beyond that I won't go into it
here. I came here to discuss the history of the Holocaust. If you wish to
discuss this matter contact Nizkor's webmaster and ask him about it.
 
Mike Curtis
7:37 AM 4/22/97 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  NIZKOR WWW SITE
 
 
To   :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,36274/15/97  7:49 PM
From :  Don F. Eyres, 104312,661        #590442
 
Kevin,
 
>>I would welcome comments.
 
        Very well.
 
         You are paranoid (both of you)- you put material out in the public and
them complain about people monitoring it? Not to mention your constant gripes
about "supression".
        You're evasive. You have steadfastly refused to answer questions that
would point out just how much of a fool you have been making yourself out to
be.
        You are bigoted. You have repeatedly alluded to mysterious
support/funding, etc, implying that it is from Jewish sources.
        You are chemically illiterate, as Mr. Curtis demonstrated with his
discussion concerning the explosiveness and effects of the gases used by the
Germans.
        You are historically ignorant, as demonstrated by your comments about
the effects and role of Nazism in Germany- not to mention its leadership. "I'd
follow Keitel anywhere", or words to that effect...! My Lord! That alone puts
you in opposition to every important German general officer.
        You are morally bankrupt. Defending the Nazis requires a person with
very special qualities. Even if "only" 75,000 people died at Auschwitz... why
*did* 75,000 human beings die there? Why reason was there for them being there?
        
        Would you like a second opinion? No problem.
 
        You have the logical skills of an overboiled turnip. After attacking
something or someone (such as a website), you have the chutzpah to act
surprised when someone defends it. You claim that a KL commandant was
interviewed in a language he didn't even understand- a fact easy enough to
check on. Millions of missing Jews are attributed to a marriage spat. You show
a remarkable illogicallity in what items you accept as evidence.
        You rely on inuendo and suggestion, rather than specifics. Examples
include "funding for Nizcor" and "lots of historians...". The forum is still
waiting for you to produce a single name in the latter case.
 
        If you would like any other comments, please let me know.
 
 
Forum:  Military                        Section:  Coffee Shop
Subj:  Nizkor WWW Site
 
 
To   :  R.G. Graves (SA), 70651,462        4/22/97  6:00 AM
From :  Kevin Davidson Hall, 100447,3627#592664
 
Not surprised that you live behind a PO box, but our fiends at Nizkor claim to
be an outfit of some significance.
 
KDH

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