Archive/File: people/g/gudgel.doyal doyalg.0395

From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs Sat Mar 11 15:32:04 PST 1995
Article: 22627 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Jewish Soap
In-Reply-To: doyal@eskimo.com's message of Fri, 10 Mar 1995 02:56:27 GMT
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
>First posted by yggdrasil
>The factual premise of that story about Jewish soap contradicts
>the proponents' frequent and plausible assertions that victims of
>gassings were starved and overworked. How would one be able to
>get sufficient body fat to make soap from emaciated gassing
>victims?

Since no one has claimed that gassing victims were even remotely
limited to the emaciated, in fact many of the gassing victims were
chosen immediately upon arrival as being unfit for hard labor (for
example, being too fat) this post is idiotic on its face.

Here are other pearls of wisdom from "Mr Doyal" (aka Doyal Thomas
Gudgel):

# The only thing, in Germany, starting about the time of Napoleon 
# the Jews with money began the practice of marrying a German girl so 
# their offspring would look more like human beings instead of looking 
# like them.

This requires no comment.

And...

>     4    The first trace when  Talmudist tried this trick of smearing 
>Goyims was in 1919 when a Talmudist magazine used the word H. together 
>with 6 million exterminated.

He's referring to an article published in "The American Hebrew", Oct
31, 1919, here is a key excerpt:

--------------------
        From across the sea six million men and women call to us for
help, and eight hundred thousand little children cry for bread....

        In the face of death, in the throes of starvation there is no
place for mental distinctions of creed, no place for physical
differentiations of race.  In this catastrophe, when six million human
beings are being whirled towards the grave by a cruel and relentless
fate, only the most idealistic promptings of human nature should sway
the heart and move the hand.

        Six million men and women are dying from lack of the
necessities of life; eight hundred thousand children cry for
bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own,
through no transgression of the laws of God or man; but through the
awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood.

        In this threatened holocaust of human life, forgotten are the
niceties of philosophical distinction, forgotten are the differences
of historical interpretation; and the determination to help the
helpless, to shelter the homeless, to clothe the naked and to feed the
hungry becomes a religion at whose altar men of every race can worship
and women of every creed can kneel...

--------------------

But of course he knew this, and knows his words and interpretation of
this article are a willful lie. It was simply an appeal to their
readership for donations for people starving in the aftermath of World
War I.

But liars like Doyal have no shame, even when shame is tatooed on
their foreheads...

Lunatic.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 22646 of alt.revisionism
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Jewish Soap
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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 02:56:27 GMT
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First posted by yggdrasil

Originator: remailer@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU

Of "Jewish Soap" and Veiled Hatreds

It is a sad fact that our social sciences, most particularly
sociology and political science, devote much effort to the
study of average people, with a view toward controlling their
thoughts, votes and attitudes.

Far more interesting and important is the study of the
motivations of our elites. Such studies are seldom, if ever, done
outside the field of economics.

In this post we are going to ask a simple question: - When
confronted by an elite too smart to simply admit in opinion polls
their real motives, what are the indicators that their ideas and
actions are motivated by malice?

At what point may we conclude that contradictory statements and
utterly irrational arguments voiced by visibly talented people
are motivated by passion and prejudice?

What extremes of internal contradiction would allow us to take
alarm that the motivating passion might be hatred?

Let's look at "Jewish Soap" and the Holocaust.

   Jewish historian Walter Laqueur acknowledged in his 1980 book,
   The Terrible Secret, that the human soap story has no basis in
   reality. 

   Deborah Lipstadt, professor of modern Jewish history, in 1981:

       "The fact is that the Nazis never used the bodies of Jews,
       or for that matter anyone else, for the production of
       soap."

   Jewish historian Gitta Sereny noted in her book, Into That
   Darkness:

       "The universally accepted story that the corpses were used
       to make soap and fertilizer is finally refuted by the
       generally very reliable Ludwigsburg Central Authority for
       Investigation into Nazi Crimes."

   In April 1990, professor Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Hebrew
   University, regarded as a leading Holocaust historian, as well
   as Shmuel Krakowski, archives director of Israel's Yad v Shem
   Holocaust center, confirmed that the human soap story is not
   true.

Notice the dates.

After 1980, it simply was not possible for any proponent of
the Holocaust to repeat the "Jewish Soap" story in good faith.
Nevertheless, we have the following:

   Author Konnilyn Feig, in her 1981 work, Hitler's Death Camps,
   repeated the soap story in lurid detail, accepting the story
   because:

       "Most East European camp scholars...validate the soap
       stories, and other kinds of bars made from humans are
       displayed in Eastern Europe -- I have seen many over the
       years."

   In Washington in April 1983, Rabbi Arthur Schneier repeated
   the tale at the opening ceremony of the largest Holocaust
   meeting in history. In his invocation to the "American
   Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors," the Rabbi solemnly
   declared:

       "We remember the bars of soap with the initials RJF --
       'Rein judisches Fett', Pure Jewish Fat -- made from the
       bodies of our loved ones."

We are being asked to believe a collection of specific factual
assertions about the Holocaust.

The problem is that the proponents of this collection of
assertions cannot agree. They cannot get their story straight. If
they disagree about the facts of the story, then why should we
believe?

But the credibility of the collection of Holocaust assertions
that comprise the "Jewish Soap" story suffer not just from the
disagreements of the proponents.

The factual premise of that story about Jewish soap contradicts
the proponents' frequent and plausible assertions that victims of
gassings were starved and overworked. How would one be able to
get sufficient body fat to make soap from emaciated gassing
victims?

The problem with Holocaust belief is the facility with which
the images of camp life and conditions conjured by the proponents
change, depending upon the point to be proven.

For example, when one poster questions the practical details of
how all the corpses could be removed quickly from delousing
chambers at Aushwitz turned into makeshift gas chambers, a
proponent of the "Holocaust" notes:


     From: golux@mcs.com (The only Golux in the World, and not a
     mere Device)
     Date: Sat, 01 Oct 1994 20:56:16 -0600

     "The 'average adults' killed in Auschwitz gas chambers
     probably did not weigh more than 100 pounds at the time of
     their death, since the SS probably wasn't feeding them too
     well."

Indeed, hunger in the camps was so pervasive that, according to
one proponent, food motivated camp inmates themselves to operate
the gas chambers for the SS.

     From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
     Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 07:09:59 GMT

     "As to fresh meat, they were herding their fellow inmates,
     by the dozens if not hundreds, into chambers for execution.
     And you the guards should have been concerned about running
     out of help?"

     "If you get to do the loading then *maybe* you get to live
     another day, maybe you even eat a little better under
     starvation conditions."

And indeed, the image of hunger, disease and misery in the camps
is universal throughout all of the assertions about the
Holocaust, except the "Jewish Soap" assertions. But if the
plausible image of hunger is so widely held by proponents, then
why do so many proponents have difficulty rejecting the "Jewish
Soap" assertions?

To make soap, we need large numbers of camp inmates with ample
body fat.

Could ethnic anger and aggression be so strong within the
Holocaust proponents that many of them (perhaps most) will
believe fundamentally contradictory stories?

The Holocaust is intended to shame Western Europeans into
honoring the ideals of "compassion", "tolerance" and "diversity."

Yet how can these Holocaust proponents, who so strenuously
advocate the values of "compassion", "tolerance" and "diversity"
for others have such a powerful need to believe the worst about
their real and imagined enemies, even when the stories are
utterly implausible?

Could it be that this value system of "compassion", "tolerance"
and "diversity" is meant to be followed by others, but not by the
Holocaust proponents themselves?  Could it be that for Holocaust
proponents values and ideas are artifacts of convenience and
advantage depending upon who benefits at the time?

Could it be that when you are a minority in "diaspora" you build 
"Tolera-centers" to showcase the Holocaust in Los Angeles, 
because "tolerance" and "diversity" benefit you, but that when
you are a majority in  Israel "tolerance" and "diversity" have no
place?

The Jerusalem Report of April 7, 1994 , p.24, says of Rafael
Eitan, one of Israel's most influential leaders:

     On one occasion, at a meeting of top army brass in Gaza in
     1980, he [Eitan] said, according to notes taken at the time:
     "We have to do everything to make them (the Arabs) miserable
     so they'll leave. All the Arabs are the same. They should
     all be finished off."

The Jewish Press for October 28 to November 3, 1994, on page 107,
quotes Yitzak Rabin as follows:

     We cannot keep having this mixture of Jews and Arabs. We
     have to stop the blurring. There has to be a separation, not
     just a technical closure. We have to decide on separation as
     a philosophy.

Is "Jewish Soap" just one more example?

Could the words "compassion", "tolerance" and "diversity"
have a double meaning when spoken by such people? Could these
words require passivity of the audience but leave plenty of
room for unbridled aggression and veiled hatred for the
speakers of such words?

Caution is in order.

Yggdrasil-

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