The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Article 11070 of alt.skinheads:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: J B Stoner on AIDS
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The following is transcript of part of a speech given by J B Stoner at 
the Aryan Nations Congress this summer at Hayden Lake Idaho. I have about 
6 and a half hours of videotape of the events and speeches at this congress. 
Anyone who would like a copy of the tapes e mail a request.

I do not agree with everything he says but feel you should know what 
these people are saying. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

                             J B Stoner
We can read in the book of Revelation about how God sent plagues. 
Jesus Christ promised several plagues. But with AIDS the great racial 
miracle of AIDS he gave us more good news than He even promised us. 
God gave us extra bonuses because he loves us white people.  AIDS is 
not new.  It has been around since before 1872.  It was first written 
about in medical literature in 1872 when it was called Karposis 
Sarcoma.  It was written about by Dr. Maruitz Karposis,  A Hungarian 
jew dermatologist in Vienna, ...........

He first wrote about it in 1872 Karposis sarcoma, and then it mutated,  
when it turned up in California. Medical books say when it turned up 
in a mutated form it was still karposis sarcoma, Medical books say a 
new term was coined.  They use the word coined.  The term means 
Acquired, Immune Deficiency Syndrome, AIDS.  So AIDS is just a newly 
coined term. To describe an old Jew disease.  Karposis sarcoma, It was 
confined to the east European Jews, for over half a century actually.  
Dr. Karposis wrote about it. Of course most of the jews in western 
Europe were eastern Jews. You take the German Jews.  They're eastern 
Jews. The only thing, in Germany, starting about the time of Napoleon 
the Jews with money began the practice of marrying a  German girl so 
their offspring would look more like human beings  instead of looking 
like them.  ................

Now... Karposis Sarcoma was confined to the European Jews, for little 
more than half a century.  Then it  turned up in Africa, When it 
turned up in California it was nothing but a Jew, nigger disease.  
That's mainly what it still is even though apparently it is going 
strong among the Asians.  So God has not forgotten us.  Some have said 
there has been no plague in the history of the world. Completely 
racial, that I know of.  There has never been a plague that you 
couldn't find someone who could survive it. Have some immunity to it. 
The virus is smaller than all the other virus, They talk about latex 
rubber being protection against it. AIDS  is so small it can go 
through latex rubber, So there is no protection there, so let them go 
and tell all the Jews and niggers, nigger lovers, and pro jews let the 
tell them to go ahead  BE SAFE.  Then let them go to the AIDS 
graveyard. Now white people have relative immunity to aids. Because 
they have the GC 2 gene.  But Jews and Niggers have the GC1... which 
makes them aids prone. They can get it easier then we can. 
We cant get aids by using the toilet or shaking hands with an aids 
carrier,  But it is a known fact that niggers have caught aids without 
any transfer of body fluids. But the establishment doesn't want that 
to be admitted.  Dr. Whiteside down in Miaimi at the Clinic for 
Communicable diseases says it is being transmitted among niggers 
without bodily contact.   Without bodily fluids being exchanged. 
     So you not only have that according to the records of the Center 
for Disease control in Atlanta a part of the United States Government 
AIDS is killing off niggers in much larger numbers than white people. 
It's wiping them out. Of course they can't talk about Jews.  It's 
hitting Jews just as hard.  But there is news leaks.  You've heard of 
news leaks haven't you? I heard a Jew rabbi on Jew television I woke 
up one sunday morning and turned on the tv to see what the antichrist  
preachers were saying. There was a Jew rabbi talking he said they had 
a lot of AIDS carriers in  his synagogue and that hey had established 
a Jewish taskforce on aids. In the synagogue to help jews with aids.  
The Detroit Jewish news said a year or two ago that Detroit was the 
last large city to form a jewish task force on aids. So those are big 
leaks when it comes down to these publications. ........


I've been fighting against the Jews and niggers and for our Lord Jesus 
Christ and the white race ever since I was a child. And most of the 
time we've been losing. I said we had lost the fight Until... you're 
not losing it any more. We had lost the fight for the preservation of 
the white race until God himself intervened in earthly affairs with 
AIDS to rescue and preserve the white race that he had created. So 
AIDS is a great racial miracle.  I praise God all the time for AIDS. 
...........

There's that great nigger Magic Johnson.  I never heard of him before 
he announced he had AIDS.  I said Praise God for AIDES.  After all 
there are a lot of white boys growing up that admire niggers like 
that. O J Simpson and Magic Johnson because they are great athletes. 
They want to grow up to be a big nigger like them.  That is the kind 
of rotten corrupt society that we have today.

Now about AIDS they can sell the figures more way than one. They don't 
report all the  cases. When it comes from other countries and this one 
does it too. They don't report all the actual cases. There are easy 
ways to suppress the true numbers. The biggest way they suppress 
number of AIDS cases is because they don't keep statistics  on aids 
related complexes.  Aids related complexes is the same virus as AIDS 
and kills just as dead. So they don't keep statistics on them.  They 
estimate there are 10 to 20 times as many with AIDS related complexes 
as there is AIDS.  That is one of the way they cover up. But I stand 
here and tell you I keep up with AIDS.  AIDS   is Gods purification  
program over the whole world.  I tell you aids is going real  good. 
It's moving faster and faster. God is actually rescuing us.  

AIDS is a racial disease of Jews and Niggers, and fortunately it is 
wiping out the queers.   I guess God hates queers for several reasons. 
There is one big reason to be against queers and that is because every 
time some white boy is seduced by a queer into becoming a queer means 
his white bloodline has run out. He wont have any white offspring. 
What it does is that it cuts down on the numbers of the white race. 
Cause they are not breeding. ........

That Jew government in Washington DC has a program to multiply the 
niggers out of their hatred for us.  They hate the white people so 
much they punish us by higher taxes.  A married couple pays higher 
income taxes than two separate people who are making the same pay. The 
purpose of that Jew government is Washington is to wipe our white race 
out. They are making war against us. I say we should stand up for our 
rights. I'm not worried about losing any more. I've been in the fight 
for years when we were losing. Today God has changed everything. 
Instead of losing we white people are now winners. The white race is 
winners now. God took us off the losing wagon and put us on the AIDS 
white victory bandwagon. As long as God keeps his AIDS purification 
program going to rescue and preserve us white people we have no way of 
losing, We CAN'T lose. So I am a happy man. I know AIDS is a bad way 
to die  but  that is the way God has chosen to destroy his enemies. I 
hope everyone who is pro Jew and Pro Nigger will lay down with 
somebody who carries AIDS . I hope every white slut who runs after a 
nigger catches AIDS. I don't know how many sluts will come down with 
aids, as a result of running after magic Johnson. he has magic  AIDS. 
But that is a real miracle form God. People say there is no miracles 
any more. We read about miracles in the old Testament and the new 
Testament 2000 years ago but there are no miracles today. I say we 
have a great  miracle. I say one of the greatest miracles in the 
history of the world. Gods great racial miracle of AIDS.  I say we 
white people,  God wants us to do our duty.  I don't know why God has 
favored us with AIDS. when most white people were too lazy to  sorry 
to do their part.  They wouldn't join us with people like us to put up 
a fight.  So I don't know why God has so much mercy, He is rescuing 
us. I am sure he would like to see white people like you and me get 
out there and do our duty, to serve God, to fight against his enemies, 
To fight against the Jews and Niggers, all the other race mixing  
lunatics. Anybody who is for race mixing is a race mixing lunatic. So 
let them go with AIDS. All head for the AIDS  graveyard, Praise God 
for aids.



Article 19590 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: why deal with a loon?
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Daniel Mittleman (dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu) wrote:
: In article <3b15si$qtq@decaxp.harvard.edu>, stara@fas.harvard.edu (Felix Vagabond) writes...

: >  I think it's a waste of time in responding to Wayne and his rantings.

:     I agree with you and have been tempted to stop.  I have continued
:     because, while responding to Wayne does not seem to have an impact on
:     Wayne, responding enables new readers to see flaws in Wayne's logic and
:     method which might not be evident to them otherwise.

: ===========================================================================
: daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (602) 621-293
2

you need some some facts to answer Wayne.  So far you haven't had any.


Article 19591 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: OTHER LOSSES
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Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
: Mike Woods  wrote:

: # A fair question: is alt.revisionism only for holocaust questions, 
: # or for other controversial questions as well?

: All relevant questions should be welcome, in my opinion. 

: # But let's talk about Bacque.  I've read the book, but haven't 
: # seen the 'refutations'.  I'd like to. Could somebody post the 
: # Ambrose article so everyone can get a look at it?

: I'm quite sure I saved it. I'll post and also mail you a copy.

: # The Germans, throughout the war, lived up to that Geneva
: # requirement.  

: Sorry, I have to correct you here. Allied POW's - American,
: British, etc - were treated relatively well. About 4 percent
: of them died in captivity, some were simply murdered, but on
: the whole, they were not subject to extermination.

You are the one who is incorrect.  Soviet Russia did not sign the Geneva 
Convention.  Germany then did not have to observe it in relation to 
Russian POWs.  The Bolsheviks did not observe it towards German POWs 
either. They died in greater numbers than  Allied prisoners did in 
possession of the Japanese and we know how brutally they treated their 
prisoners.

Doyal@eskimo.com

rest deleted


Article 19621 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: McGuire and Irving (was: Re: In Dramatic Confrontation, Irving Con
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 1994 19:55:49 GMT
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Kaufman M.E. (mattk@summit.novell.com) wrote:
: Thomas Doyal (doyal@eskimo.com) wrote:
: : Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:

: : : A "major historian"?

: : : It was posted here that he was convicted of slandering
: : : and lying in his books, even before he became a Holocaust
: : : denier. No one here denied this. 

: : response cut here.

: Coward. Keren provides some of Irving's historical record, like being
: successfully sued for libel and being condemned by the British Parliament,
: and you cut it out. Keren didn't even include the interview from Skeptic
: magazine that showed Irving doing his level best to misconstrue
: what Eichmann meant when he talked about exterminating Jews.

: Tell ou what Mr. Doyal-the-coward. Why don't you transcribe what you
: feel are the relevant parts of the videotaped program and post them? Don't
: try to make a buck off of it although that'd be out of character from all
: the denier profiteers who seem to wallow here. Go ahead and post it,
: coward. You wont' - wouldn't want to get your snout far from the
: denier trough, to borrow a phrase from KOTM nominee hoffman^2.
--------------------------------------------------------------

I have already posted several excerpts of David Irvings speech. Where 
have you been? Asleep? I am almost ready to post another excerpt. You 
people could not absorb all his facts at one time.

Stay tuned.

Doyal@eskimo.com
remainder deleted.


Article 19646 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: more on Irving
Message-ID: 
Summary: More excerpts from speech by David Irving.
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The Following is an excerpt of a speech given in Portland OR on Oct. 10 1994 
by the leading  English historian David Irving.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            David Irving

It is possible to be absolutely precise and specific about what 
happened in Auschwitz. No question at all exists in any ones mind now. 
Even our opponents know that we are right.  Our opponents have 
published in a wonderful book by a man called John Claude Pressaic who 
is on of our most dedicated enemies.  By accident they have published 
the total quantity of coke delivered to Auschwitz in the war years.  
Two thousand one hundred and eighty eight tons of coke. Were delivered 
to the crematoria during the entire period Auschwitz was in operation. 
2188 tons.  You can do the calculation on the back of an envelope.  35 
or 40 kg per cadaver even if the crematories were operating at their 
top efficiency which they weren't during the war years. You get a 
quantity of 65 or 70 thousand  bodies. MAXIMUM That were being 
cremated at Auschwitz  during the entire period.  And Incidentally 
that tallies with the capacity of the crematories in Auschwitz. We 
know how many crematories there are. We got the design.  We actually 
got the design from the Moscow archives now of the SS Vulcan SS  unit 
that built the crematory how many retorts in each crematorium. We know 
what the operating capacity was. The Tops company that built them kept 
the most precise records, We know how many they could burn in a year, 
in a week, in a day, in a month. Over the entire period that these 
individual crematories were in operation. We know that they could have 
cremated a maximum pf 60 to a 100 thousand bodies. 

So where does this 1,000,000 or 4,000,000 figure come from?
Imagination that's all it is.  When you start examining the facts you 
come again and again to this figure of 60 or a 100 thousand.  And you 
have another cross check because we British were breaking the codes of 
the Commandment of Auschwitz.  Night after night he was signaling to 
Berlin. Oswald Pohl the SS Chief of the concentration camps. He was  
reporting night after night the statistics.  How many prisoners had 
arrived at Auschwitz of slave laborers, how many had left over the 
previous 24 hours, How many were on hand at midnight, and how many had 
died during the 24 hours. How many had died from all causes.  He 
breaks it down into 4 particular causes.  How many had died from 
epidemics, and disease, how many had been hanged, how many had been 
shot. And that is all.  

As the official British Historian Professor Frank Hensley. The 
historian of the British Secret Service who reported these code 
breaking intercepts in volume 2 of the British Official History.  
stated explicitly .  In these intercepts there is no reference to 
anyone being gassed. 

Now of course if Prof. Frank Hensley Master of St Johns College in 
Cambridge now. If he went to France and said that or if he said it in 
his college in Cambridge to a French newspaper journalist he would be 
prosecuted by the French for challenging something as defined by the  
Nurnberg Tribunal.  

If he went to Germany he would be fined 23,000 dollars he would be 
deported and banned from the German archives.  

If he went to Canada he would be put in handcuffs thrown on the floor 
of a van and taken to Pierson Airport.  This is how ludicrous it is. 

All the facts are on our side. And yet the media, Hollywood, 
newspapers, the journalists, all belong to this tottering conspiracy 
of silence against us. 

But it is tottering I think ladies and gentlemen, It has only one more 
year to go.  A year at most and then finally all the journalists will 
agree we were probably right.  Not that they are going to print the 
fact that we were right. The journalists will all then unanimously 
decide they knew it all along. They knew it all along that the 
holocaust was a myth, a legend, large parts of it were untrue.  That 
they had known it all along so what is the fuss all about? Rather like 
the story of bars of soap nowadays. That's how journalists are.  They 
have no moral fibre, no character. I rank them somewhat lower than 
lawyers in my social strata.  

When the journalists here wanted to speak to me as you saw I refused 
to speak to them except for the gentleman from the Oregonian. What can 
they do for us.  Nothing. I'm far more interested in speaking to you.  
You are the people here with an open mind and hearts for what I have 
to say today. That is why I came to you all across the continent 
during the last 24 hours to speak to you and I shall come to you again 
and again, to report on progress in this great intellectual  
adventure.   Thank you. 



All Revisionists should be extremely greatful for David Irving and for his 
efforts in the cause of Real History. 


Contributions to the David Irving Fighting Fund may be made to P.O. Box 
1707, Key West Florida 33041-1707


For details on how to obtain the comlete 1 1/2 hour videotape send a request 
to me, doyal@eskimo.com.  




Article 19658 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: more on Irving
In-Reply-To: doyal@eskimo.com's message of Thu, 1 Dec 1994 05:57:56 GMT
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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References: 
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 08:07:59 GMT
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
>...by the leading  English historian David Irving.

You mispelled "Hume".

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 19684 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Eating Manure
Message-ID: 
Summary: Now that's REALLY tough. 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 1994 16:59:39 GMT
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  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken  McVay posted an article from his mauthausen archives and I'm amazed no 
one has asked him,  "Do you really believe this stuff?".  Here is an 
excerpt which is typical of the so called 'evidence' Exterminationists 
post as evidence of the "holocaust"   
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  Mauthausen contained stone and granite quarries, called
  "weinergraben"belonging to the municipality of Vienna, and used for
  paving its streets.  The prisoners, weakened by dysentery, their food
  described as "powdered manure"....... 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, they could simply have harvested the dysentary from the 
prisoners, and had a self-replentishing food supply! Nyuk, nyuk.
Where in the heck would the Germans get enough powdered faeces to feed
anyone?  Did they assign some Jew as pooper scooper to follow after 
horses and cows to collect the material? Dry it out, grind it up, ship it 
to Mauthausen feed  prisoners?  Would they prefer to make it into food 
rather than into fertilizer for growing crops? If they assigned a Jew 
for the job weren't they concerned he would put it on the black market 
and make money on it?  Can't you just visualize this Jew,  coming up 
to someone saying "psst psst hey man  you wanna buy some powdered shit? 
Such a deal! Genuine horse manure."
  
The only powdered manure anywhere is in the brain of the guy who 
posted it to alt.revisionism. 
  

On the whole this story reeks of the mass hysteria associated with 
holocaustism -- you tell these stories for so long, adding a little each 
time, that pretty soon they're insane (a la buckets of flesh, geysers of 
blood and jewfat soap) but you whole-heartedly believe them. I can't 
believe it -- this sort of thing is being taught in grammar schools 
around the world as true -- "Yes, Bobby, the bad, bad Germans made the 
nice friendly, helpful Jews eat doo-doo. Isn't that *awful*?"
  



Article 19688 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: more on Irving
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References:  <3bkjak$6ua@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 1994 17:06:48 GMT
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Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
: Thomas Doyal  wrote:

: # The Following is an excerpt of a speech given in Portland OR on 
: # Oct. 10 1994 by the leading  English historian David Irving.

: Irving is a racist and a liar, who was convicted of lying and
: slandering people in his books even before he became a Holocaust
: denier. Quite a few of his lies were exposed on this group.

: # It is possible to be absolutely precise and specific about what 
: # happened in Auschwitz. 

: From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
: [Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
: Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
: --------------------------------------------------------------
: At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner ordered
: me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
: had shown up. 

A simple question.  Did all these 300 or 500 victims in the chamber just 
wander in by themselves? With only one orderly to gas 500 people or 
whatever there were. I can just see it now.  This guy sits on the top of 
the chamber holding his can of zyclon B in one hand and with the other 
motions to the crowd of eager victims.  "come on in folks,  last one in 
shut the door."  They all crowd in closing the door making it air tight. 
When all are in the medical orderly on the top taps on the cover,  "Hey 
down there! open this up so I can pour this zyclon b in.  Lift the lid. 
Yoo-hoo.  Ah come on folks open the lid!. After all I'm just doing my job"

Well, you can have your "referemces" but Irving has the manufacturers actual 
plans.  That is a real source!

(remainder of similar worth deleted)


Article 19733 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: more on Irving
In-Reply-To: doyal@eskimo.com's message of Thu, 1 Dec 1994 17:06:48 GMT
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
>A simple question.  Did all these 300 or 500 victims in the chamber just 
>wander in by themselves? With only one orderly to gas 500 people or 
>whatever there were. I can just see it now.  This guy sits on the top of 
>the chamber holding his can of zyclon B in one hand and with the other 
>motions to the crowd of eager victims.  "come on in folks,  last one in 
>shut the door."  They all crowd in closing the door making it air tight. 
>When all are in the medical orderly on the top taps on the cover,  "Hey 
>down there! open this up so I can pour this zyclon b in.  Lift the lid. 
>Yoo-hoo.  Ah come on folks open the lid!. After all I'm just doing my job"

Um, who or what are you arguing with?

No, they did not wander in by themselves.

But what you also seem to fail to understand is that a lot of what was
going on was unthinkable, and if someone, some soldiers with guns at a
camp, told you to go inside that building over there and have a seat
and they'd get to you you probably would just do it.

What do you think they said? Please go into that GAS CHAMBER so we may
KILL you? Do you think there was a big sign over the door that said
"Prisoner Murder Facility, Please Have A Seat"?

In many cases these people had just come off of a train from some city
and were being herded this way and that. Here, all of you, go over
thru that door over there, follow that guard, and wait for us to get
to you.

You think it would immediately occur to you that, hmm, I better run up
against that guy's machine gun because ya know maybe they're actually
going to fill that room with cyanide gas and kill us all so what's to
lose?

Yeah, right, that's just what goes thru a person's mind immediately.

You can't be this naive, you're doing it on purpose.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
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Article 19833 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: The Myth Is Dead
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 16:58:48 GMT
Lines: 18



The Holocaust lobby stopped beating up on dead Nazis long enough to include 
the French.  The Discovery Channel on Cable had a dreary accounting of the 
supposed participation by the French in the  effort to exterminate the Jews  
during World War 2. The hour long show was called "France's Forgotten Shame" 
The promos plugging the show claimed the French were  worse than the Nazis in 
their treatment of the Jews. The actual show itself fell far short of any of 
the ridiculous accusation that have been leveled against the German people. 

What is really significant about this is that it fits in with David Irvings 
and David Coles claims  of the impending demise of the Holocaust myth.  It is 
believed that the emphasis in the coming months will be shifted from the 
Nazis to other countries, then quietly dropped. 

It appears David Irving was right all along.  The Holocaust myth is dead. 




Article 20145 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: Internet Censorship (The Simon Wiesenthal Center)
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References:  <3cqafo$52i@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 16:32:48 GMT
Lines: 24

DbtgThomas (dbtgthomas@aol.com) wrote:
: In article , wmcguire@world.std.com
: (Wayne McGuire) writes:

: (Description of Wiesenthal Center's call for censorship of "hate" speech.)

: You know, maybe they do have the right idea.  Then after hate's under
: control, we could ban jealousy, anger, disappointment, depression, fear,
: envy, avarice (whoops, the system would stop), swearing, really offensive
: b.o., and passing gas in elevators.  After these more virulent of the
: undesirable human traits are eradicated (or driven into deserved hiding,
: or held inside, as it were) the everyday gaucheries such as hatred of
: brocolli could be addressed, and eventually we'd have Perfect People. 
: Down with intolerance!  We won't tolerate it any more, nor the people who
: promote it!

: Somebody get me some fresh grass and shave my wool, please, I feel the
: urge to be flocked.

Our friends who promote the holocaust will no doubt claim they are for 
free speech.  When what they really  mean is they are for free speech for 
their side. I'd like to hear them specifically state they are for free 
speech even for Revisionists. Doubtfull this will happend as the JDL and 
their friends might come down on them like a ton of bricks. 


Article 20146 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionist Sentenced to 18 Months Imprisonment
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: 
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 16:56:14 GMT
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hoffman2nd@delphi.com wrote:
:  
: ----------Dec. 15 REUTERS
: Neo-Nazi Althans Sentenced To 18 Months Imprisonment
: Munich (dpa) - The Neo-Nazi Bela Ewald Althans was sentenced to 18 months
: in prison without probation for denying the holocaust.  The Munich district
: court found the 28 year-old guilty of incitement, disparagement of the memory
: of the deceased and the spreading of markings of unconstitutional
: organisations.  The prosecuting attorneys had called for a two and a half
: year sentence.
:  
Lets hear something from the holocaust  crowd about the unjustness of 
putting someone in prison for expressing his opinion. No. All you will 
get is 
"I'm for free speech" You will not get outrage about this man going to 
jail for expressing his opinion.  They are for free speech for them not 
the opposing view.  The JDL is likely to make an unwelcome visit if they 
were to do so. 


Article 20364 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: pow
Message-ID: 
Summary: James Bacque proves Isenhower  a mass murderer
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 08:10:08 GMT
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The anti revisionists will try to discredit Revisionists no matter how 
silly they look.  They apparently have orders to discredit everything no 
matter  how dumb it is. So let them try to discredit James Baque again.  


I thought it would be nice to inject something relatively new into the
Other Losses discussion.  This is a letter by James Bacque, author of
Othe Losses.  It appeared in The Times Literary Supplement of August 20,
1993.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir,-It is every writer's delight to be attacked in a famous journal by a
confused critic, so my thanks go to John Keegan for airing his views on my
work in the TLS on July 23.

Mr Keegan has been misled by the editors of the book, "Eisenhower and the
German POWs: Facts against falsehood," which he cites to refute me.  The
principal editor, Stephen E.  Ambrose, clearly does not know what he
thinks from day to day, because he has varied wildly from strong approval
of my book, "Other Losses," to snarling slanders of me personally,
together with buffoonish misrepresentations of American army policies. 
Having kindly read my manuscript, he wrote to me as follows: "I am not
arguing with the basic truth of your discovery...you have the goods on
these guys, you have the quotes from those who were present and saw with
their own eyes, you have the broad outline of a truth so terrible I really
can't bear it...you really have made a major historical discovery..." It
appears from the latest Ambrose writings that, indeed, the truth was
something he could not bear.

The same might be said for his co-editor, Gunter Bischof, an Austrian. 
Keegan admires the "scholarship" of Bischof, but Bischof does not know a
displaced persons camp from a prison camp.  He chastises me for stating
that there was a US Army prison camp at Ebensee in Austria: he says that
the camp was for DPs.  In fact, I have photocopies of General Mark Clark's
secret report about the condition of prisoners of war in the camp, plus US
Army medical reports of prisoners in the camp, plus eyewitness accounts of
the catastrophe among dozens of thousands of prisoners, including the
manuscript of a diary kept by the priest Franz Loidl who ministered to the
dying.  This manuscript is on deposit in the Church History Institute of
the Catholic Theological Faculty, University of Vienna.

In the same book so admired by Keegan is a gross error made by Rudiger
Overmanns, who does not even know the number of prisoners taken by the
Americans.  This was not 3.8 million as he says, but over 6 million,
according to US Army records in Suitland, Maryland.  Of course, this
error, conveniently for Ambrose and Keegan, apparently diminishes the 
number of lives for which the Americans were responsible.

Underlying the Ambrose-Bischof book is a series on German prisoners edited
by Erich Maschke.  Underlying that series is no important documentation
from the US Army archives in Washington.  The author of the book on the
American camps casually omits all the significant records that survived
the paper purges of the late 1940s.  However, for an expert judgment on
the condition of American camps Mr Keegan may rely on the words of an
American Lieutenant-Colonel who was in charge of the camps in France in
1945.  In a report preserved at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas,
Lieutenant-Colonel Henry W.  Allard wrote that "the standards of PW camps
in the Com Z in Europe compare as only slightly better or even with the
living conditions of the Japanese PW camps our men tell us about, and
unfavourably with those of the Germans".  Let us remember that after the
war, the Americans executed Japanese for precisely the crimes referred to
by Allard. 

Mr Keegan does not accept the definition of the term "Other Losses" given
me by Colonel Philip S.  Lauben.  He is unaware of the US Army report
discovered by Richard Boylan, a senior archivist at the US National
Archives, which confirms Lauben.  The report plainly states that the
"Other Loses" category of prisoners meant deaths and escapes.  And
finally, of course, 1,700,000 Germans, plus hundreds of thousands of other
Europeans, are still missing from their families.  This astounding fact is
normally neglected by the Western apologists, unless they can also use it
to hammer the Soviets, saying they all died in the Gulag.  But now that
the Soviets are gone, their archives are open and the truth at last
emerges. 

That truth is simple.  The Soviets took some 4.1 million prisoners of war
east and west, of whom some 600,000 died in slavery.  Of the total take,
some 2.4 million were Germans.  Of these, some 450,600 died, the rest were
sent home.  Subtracting the 450,600 dead Germans from the missing 1.7
million, we see that some 1.25 million are still not accounted for.  Of
these, probably 100,000 - 200,000 died in Polish, Yugoslavian and other
camps.  The number remaining is very nearly the number I said in "Other
Losses" of those who died among all Europeans taken prisoner in the West.

I wonder if Mr Keegan will consult the Soviet records before attacking
them? The surprising thing about the Soviet records is that they are
extensive, detailed, accurate and incriminating.  For instance, on the
subject of prisoners of war, these archives display a dossier for each
prisoner, complete with capture records, biographical information,
legal,labour and medical history, including X-ray photographs, and so on. 
The average is about fifteen pages per person.  The dossier of Nobel prize
winner Konrad Lorenz, the Austrian zoologist contains two hundred pages
about him and his work.  No such records exist anywhere in the West.  In
months of work in the archives of the West, I was never able to find the
dossier for a single one of the 9 or so million prisoners held.  Not one. 
But in the first hour in the NKVD/KGB archives, I found the archival boxes
containing over 4 million personal dossiers.  I was allowed to walk up and
down the aisles, and take down and photocopy any box I chose at random,
and did so.  I have scores of photocopies of those records here in
Toronto, and Mr Keegan is welcome to consult them.  Or he may wish to
visit Moscow.  He will find interesting information beginning with the
story of the Japanese prisoners.  The Japanese authorities have long since
determined that some 62,000 of their prisoners, chiefly in the Kwantung
Army, died in the Gulag.  The Soviets lied to the Japanese government for
years about the number of deaths, first saying 3,800 had died, then about
4,000, then around 35,000.  Finally, the Soviet archives were opened, and
mirabile dictu, the death certificates were all there, totalling very
nearly 62,000. 

Do I hear Keegan protesting that Japan is not Germany? On his visit to
Moscow, he may see for himself the Soviet records showing that the
prisoners of various nationalities were often mixed together in the same
camp, so that Japanese were enslaved beside Germans, were all treated the
same way, and died in approximately the same ratio of much the same
causes.  Letters to me from individual prisoners and records at the Hoover
Institution in Stanford all show independently of the Soviet archives that
this was the case in more than thirty major camps. 

Let me also remind Keegan that the Poles long accused the Soviets of
massacring some 14,000 officers at Katyn, but that the Soviet archives
reveal that the true total was around 21,000.  If John Keegan and his
friends wish to attack the authenticity of the Soviet archives, they are
going to have to show that the fragmentary documents in the Western
archives, airy with lacunae and poxed with evasions, are superior to these
tremendous archives which incriminate its masters for a horrifying crime
against humanity.  What will they say then? That the Soviets are hiding
something?

              JAMES BACQUE
              422 Heath St. E.  
              Toronto, Ontario




Article 20548 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionist Sentenced to 18 Months Imprisonment
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References:  <3do040$r4s@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 08:13:30 GMT
Lines: 16

HMazal (hmazal@aol.com) wrote:
: Mr. Doyal states:

: >Lets hear something from the holocaust  crowd about the unjustness of 
: >putting someone in prison for expressing his opinion.

: The members of the White Rose Society got their heads chopped off for
: practicing free speech...

: Harry W. Mazal in San Antonio, Texas

I still ask for the holocaust crowd to say something to the injustice of 
putting a Revisionist in prison for expressing an opinion.  I've yet to 
hear of an anti-revisionist being put in prision for expressing his 
opinion. 
 


Article 20578 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: correct tonnage of coke to cremate
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 19:26:46 GMT
Lines: 14

Correction.  
 When posting excerpts of David Irvings speech I inadvertently made an 
error in typing the amount of coke necessary to cremate bodies in a 
crematory. He stated that 60,000 bodies a day would consume 2,000 tons 
a day of coke.  

I inadvertently changed the 2,000 to 60,000 tons a day.  Of course 
this would  not add up.  I am happy to correct the error. 
Sorry for any inconvenience this might have caused.

doyal@eskimo.com





Article 20584 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Revisionist imprisioned in Sweden
Message-ID: 
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 09:15:42 GMT
Lines: 74

Sweden join the ranks of totalitarian countries like Nazi Germany, Soviet 
Russia.  Freedom of speech is a farce.  The following is from Ditlieb 
Felderer in a Swedish  jail for his beliefs. 


Dear Doyal.  Thank you for your fax.  that you sent me. My typewriter 
ribbon is getting bad so make photocopies of this letter and mail to 
above places.    Sweden is a   totalitarians country.,  The 
totalitarians seek to rule  your mind, the authoritarians themselves.  
The totalitarians are always worse as they want to dominate your 
entire mind.  Huntfords's book about Sweden, The NEW TOTALITARIANS 
explains a lot. 
     The reasons why they are after me is because of my effective 
work. Through my flyers I have   been able to penetrate their Iron 
Curtain and for this they are furious.  Moreover my flyers are of the 
nature Bild-Zeitung, Germany's most spread newspaper.  They speak for 
Renaissance and not Dark and Middle Age Mentality.  They adopt the 
attitude of Europe's's great liberators and first novel writer, 
Giovanni Boccaccio, the master of novelists.  If Boccaccio's spirit 
had prevailed, Europe would have been spared the witch huntings and 
wars between Protestants and Catholics.  
     There are especially  2 cartoons they are after..  I inclose 2 of 
them the same type but in Polish and German,  The others cartoon is of 
a man sitting inside a "gas chamber  with his but sticking in, It 
mocks the theory and is very powerful. Write me, and I shall try and 
mail copies of it to you.  Others may have it. In such case mail many 
to me.  I live here in a  2 by 2m very badly lit. Everything is done 
to break down your spirit.  very much like Orwell's 1984.  The 
prosecutor stole my card list to contact friends just as they did in 
Communist Russia.  At the Show Trial, my papers were all bunched 
together as if they all possessed some evil force. .  Black magic 
this!
     Sweden who plays the guardian of Puritan morality when expedient, 
charges my material, such as the man tied down in the room as 
pornographic. I retort:  I have read through Salman Rusdie's SATANIC 
VERSES, where Baal the satirist writes his satanic verses.  The books 
is filled with pornography at this instance Rushdie is heralded the 
greatest exponent of Western Civilization, as a cultural genius and a 
man fighting for freedom of speech and liberty may likely be awarded 
the Nobel Prize.  But against Islam and the Germans everything is 
permitted!
     Keep this in mind when you contact the crafty Swedish authorities 
who will find excuses for their crime in incarcerating their 
dissident.  Why is Rushdie encouraged and I am imprisoned?
     I intend to appeal my 1 year sentence but the Swedish courts are 
so corrupted there is little hope from here. All depends on the work 
from the outside who can impress upon the minds of our authorities to 
respect civilized law and freedom of speech.  Contact these 
politicians for their comments. 
     As soon as you get my letter write me back so I may know you  
received it. 
     Thank you for all your help and my intention is to fight on from 
inside this cell. If I had enough material, stamps and addresses I 
could make my new office here and p[rove them a liar,  because mail at 
here cannot stop from coming out. I was given permission to call 
collect to the media outside of Sweden.  So here is a chance to get an 
interview with a writer and publisher from inside a Swedish 
Concentration Camp.  Give it a try and call your local station.  The 
telephone number to call me or rather this place is above, but it is 
better you fax me a letter letting me know when i should calla the 
station.   Best Wishes D. Felderer. 

Anyone who wants to give him support may write him at 
Ditlieb Felderer
Box 568
184 25 Akersberga, Sweden
fax +8 54 06 05 44

Anyone who wants a copy  of the cartoons referred to in the letter 
above can acquire one by writing to me  Thomas Doyal  P, O. Box 575 
Mountlake Terrace WA 98043-0575 Include a stamped self addressed 
envelope.  Remember postage rates go up first of the year.  




Article 20797 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: normandy
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eskimo.com
Message-ID: 
Summary: French shoot at Americans
Sender: usenet@eskimo.com (News User Id)
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 06:20:20 GMT
Lines: 22

Contrary to Hollywood and  Office of War Information during WW2 not 
all French Belgium, and Dutch welcomed the arrival of the Allied 
Forces.  In fact some of the French and Belgium actually took up arms 
and joined with the Germans defending against the liberators. .  Two 
factors were mainly responsible for this. One, not  surprising they 
didn't take kindly to the destruction of their homes, and cities. The 
killing of their people by Allied bombs, tanks, and artillery. Simply 
put they were satisfied with their lot. Liberation brought war and 
desolation to their country.  Second was the conduct of the Allied 
forces, mainly American and British.  Compared to the strict 
discipline of the Whermacht where German soldiers were shot for 
incivility towards women. But whereas German army conduct was correct 
American soldiers were condemned to death by the hundreds.  454 
American soldiers were condemned to death and of these 70 were 
executed. Some by public executions.  At one time over 500 instances 
of rape a month being reported. 

British conduct was so bad that Montgomery wrote  to his commanders 
demanding they stamp out looting of French property. 

All this and more can be found in a report by John Eisenhower to SHAEF in 
the Dwight D Eisenhower Library, Abilene, Kansas. 


Article 20798 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: McVay
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eskimo.com
Message-ID: 
Summary: More famous all the time. 
Sender: usenet@eskimo.com (News User Id)
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 06:31:00 GMT
Lines: 8

We'll McVay has arrived. (Again)  Got mentioned on CNN tonight. Is this 
just more of the attempt to shut off free speech for Revisionists? 

Expect more of this in the future. Tbe tie in was with ponography.  
Pornography is bad and should be banned. McVay fights hateful 
Revisionists.  Revisionists should be banned.    

 


Article 20799 of alt.revisionism:
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From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
Subject: Re: Revisionist imprisioned in Sweden
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eskimo.com
Message-ID: 
Sender: usenet@eskimo.com (News User Id)
Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <55b_9412282300@pch.se> <3dv0ie$8g5@news.xs4all.nl>  <3e5u8i$ffe@news.xs4all.nl>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 06:40:10 GMT
Lines: 35

Danny A. Nijburg (dannya@xs4all.nl) wrote:
: ridley@nucleus.com (Steve Ridley) wrote:
: ->Danny A. Nijburg (dannya@xs4all.nl) wrote:
: ->: rwn@little.pch.se (Robert Nordin) wrote:

: ->: Thank you for the information, could you possibly inform us also what he
: ->:  is in jail for ?
: ->
: ->: Could it have something to do with pornography ?

Pornography in Sweden???  Naw. There is no pornogrpahy in Sweden. 



: ->
: ->Probably for his revisionist beliefs and stating them in public or,
: ->something to that extent. It is getting really nasty over there for the
: ->revisionists and the nazis. I heard that skinhead over there are banned
: ->from certain public areas.
: ->
: ->Steve.

: I have heard that it was for distributing pornograpy. But I did not ask for ,
: I wanted factual information.
: You obviously have not got it.

: Funny that he is  a skinhead, his age makes it more likely that he is naturally bald.


:                                          /\\\\
: Danny A. Nijburg                         (@|@)
: --------------------------------------ooO-(v)-Ooo-----
: Victorieplein 47-2                        ~Y~
: 1078 PD Amsterdam- The Netherlands
: Phone/Fax +31 20 671 7711             Do unto others.....


Article 20852 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: normandy
In-Reply-To: doyal@eskimo.com's message of Mon, 2 Jan 1995 06:20:20 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:27:26 GMT
Lines: 38


From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
>Contrary to Hollywood and  Office of War Information during WW2 not 
>all French Belgium, and Dutch welcomed the arrival of the Allied 
>Forces.  In fact some of the French and Belgium actually took up arms 
>and joined with the Germans defending against the liberators.

Um, point of information, please?

Have you ever found anyone (well, anyone who's ever given any of this
a moment's thought) who finds the above statement surprising?

I seem to remember a word, yes, ... *collaborators*, they hung a lot
of those right after the war, right?

Now, why did they come up with a word like "collaborators", and even
hang bunches of them, if there's this vast conspiracy to claim they
never existed? Seems a bit contradictory, don't you think?

Do you mean Hollywood denies the existence of Petaine and the Vichy
government? My, I'd like to see some good evidence for that!

I'm sure your general description contains some truth, but I doubt
these were the principle reasons for collaborators.

It does occur to one that quite a few individuals simply benefitted
from the Nazi occupation, directly. Why is that so difficult to
understand? Some people obviously thought their lot in life was better
with the Nazis, that's not shocking nor news. No one denies the Nazis
benefitted some people.

I mean, say what you like, but cannibals don't go to bed hungry!

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 20853 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: McVay
In-Reply-To: doyal@eskimo.com's message of Mon, 2 Jan 1995 06:31:00 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:35:00 GMT
Lines: 35


From: doyal@eskimo.com (Thomas Doyal)
>We'll McVay has arrived. (Again)  Got mentioned on CNN tonight. Is this 
>just more of the attempt to shut off free speech for Revisionists? 

How come we're not shocked that deniers interpret Ken McVay's work as
a threat to them?

Last I heard Mr McVay was not a government.

What's your point? That you'd like to convince someone out there that
unless McVay is silence your freedom of speech is threatened?! HAHAHA!

>Expect more of this in the future. Tbe tie in was with ponography.  
>Pornography is bad and should be banned. McVay fights hateful 
>Revisionists.  Revisionists should be banned.    

Oh bullshit, I saw the segment also.

It was just a scatter shot at a bunch of ``free speech and the
internet'' issues in Canada. It also covered that Karla
whatever-her-name-is issue (there's some sort of news blackout in
Canada regarding the criminal case against her, but as that segment
said a lot of news is flowing thru the net as there's no such blackout
honored in the US, so the question raised was whether this was sort of
defeating the purpose and credibility of this canadian news blackout
on that case?)

C'mon, do you have a point to make or not, Doyal?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

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