The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/grynspan.alec/1996/grynspan.0896


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 12:59:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56305 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:31:32 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On 8 Aug 1996 13:28:01 GMT, s.schneider@rz.uni-sb.de (Stefan
> Schneider) wrote:
> 
> >Not to mention, that liquid hydrocyanic acid explodes, when contacted with
> >oxygen and alcalics. Somebody here doubting that concrete is very alcalic?
> 
>         It is interesting to read that when cans of ZB were opened they
> exploded.  That does sort of make the entire use of ZB rather
> worthless, does it not?

No - that makes ZB an excellent mechanism for transporting HCN.

But you know that.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 16:58:31 PDT 1996
Article: 56335 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Date: 09 Aug 96 06:23:18
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 27
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<*[*] [*] [tm@pacificnet.net] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff] [Thu 08 Aug 96 10:04][Fri 09 Aug 96
01:54][0]*>

 tn>     I would agree that if it was just one discrepancy in
 tn> Holocaust eyewitness testimony there wouldn't be much to go on.
 tn> But when there is scores, even hundreds, we have to start to
 tn> 'look sideways'.

Yes, you definitely do that, alright!

BTW - SOP in any investigation. If all of the witnesses tell the
same story, expect collusion. If some tell exactly the same story,
expect collusion. he more witnesses, the more discrepancies and
contradictions.

Ask any cop with any real experience.

IOW - if only one exact story is told, the Holocaust is a hoax.

But you knew that.

++GMAIL 1.3++ I know that you're trying. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 18:49:16 PDT 1996
Article: 56346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Giwer is a moron beyond words... (was McVay, never a Marine...)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:28:11 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Michael P. Stein wrote:
> 
>     Does the fact that a Justice Department attorney was in my home
> recently asking me about you change your presumption any?

It's when they cross over into Canada that things get *REALLY*
interesting.

I had a call yesterday - had problems returning it from my home office.
Three connect tries later and I had a little chat about a certain person
and any archival material that I might have. 

I said that there might be other corroborating sources, should it ever
come to that. Not that I'm volunteering - just that other archives might
be useful in verifying mine.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 18:49:22 PDT 1996
Article: 56347 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Nizkor:  promoter of lies
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:32:55 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 31
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Freedom of speech violations?
> 
> >    I suggest that you be polite.  Very polite.  Also, keep your hands in
> >sight and don't make any sudden moves.
> 
>         Right.  Thanks a lot.

Don't get too cocky, Matt. 

Seriously!

> 
> >>      I presume they had a great chuckle over McVay's "complaint."
> 
> >    Does the fact that a Justice Department attorney was in my home
> >recently asking me about you change your presumption any?
> 
>         It was the FBI last time you told the story.

So? 

Matt, bad news - the FBI investigates, but the Justice Department would
be the ones ascertaining whether to go ahead with actually pressing
charges.

It's an election year, Matt. 

I'm not expecting you to come to a valid conclusion - but try, anyway.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 18:49:23 PDT 1996
Article: 56351 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B
Date: 09 Aug 96 06:16:16
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 38
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NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
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<*[*] [*] [tm@pacificnet.net] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Except from Rudolf Report -- Zyklon B] [Thu 08 Aug 96 09:34][Fri 09 Aug 96
01:54][0]*>

 tn>         I'm glad I'm not in Mr.Keren's position of having to resort
 tn> to off the wall comparisons. Whereas the atomic bomb was an
 tn> improvement, as far as being able to destroy, and wasn't
 tn> developed until a certain time, at which time they used it,
 tn> Zyklon B was there already. It is also evident, going by
 tn> Holocaust facts, that carbon monoxide was used with relative
 tn> ease compared to what the Germans had to go through with Zyklon

Once again - wrong!

The carbon monoxide generators - diesel engines - were grossly
inefficient, required maintenance, were noisy, ect.

Further, they killed more by asphixiation than toxicity. CO is much
slower acting than HCN. The result was messier and less effective.

It also did not allow for as much graft.

 tn> "images" written in German, the product Zyklon B would have been
 tn> a poor choice since only 12.5%, at the most, of the product
 tn> would have been used with 87.5%, at the least, being

Prove it.

 tn> un-necessary, wasted, left over to complicate the unloading of
 tn> the chambers and disposing of the left over 87.5%.

Lift up the mesh, pour it into a container - problem solved.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 18:49:24 PDT 1996
Article: 56363 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:14:26 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         They will go away.  I am more than a match for all the ignorant, jews
> or not.

Matt, that whole statement is an oxymoron!

1. You are no match for yourself! You've lost arguments where all that
was needed was your own material!

2. As for whether or no you are ignorant - that's too obvious to need
restating.

Pity.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 18:49:25 PDT 1996
Article: 56364 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:20:34 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 10
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References:  <070700Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>  <31fcca2e.1495388@news.pacificnet.net> <4tmo4e$sii@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4tngc2$ilv@news1.panix.com> <4tpqje$d5t@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4tqbj8$erh@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4u0dp0$jba@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4u4cnu$up8@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <4u72nf$46t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4u8i96$sc4@news1.panix.com> <4u9h0r$29s@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com>
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Andrew Mathis wrote:
> 
> 
> I suggest you keep your idiot mouth shut...you're in deep enough
> already with the feds if my info is right.
> 

He is. 

More later.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 10 23:36:45 PDT 1996
Article: 56401 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 14:14:56 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> " The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven

OK - Agreed.

You confess to losing yet another argument.


From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 07:34:25 PDT 1996
Article: 56445 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:37:38 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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tom moran wrote:
> 
> 
>         Okay lets start. You present it. I'll trash it.

1. You already had your chances. You've failed so far.

2. If you really want it, I can arrange to have it delivered. 

Is tm@pacificnet.net also your Email address? What size link do they
have?


From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 07:34:26 PDT 1996
Article: 56446 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 12:39:54 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 15
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On 6 Aug 1996 00:48:26 GMT, patchwgl@infinop.com (Gary) wrote:
> 
> 
> >Try comparing oranges and oranges.  E.g., using your ludicrous
> >criteria, prove the occurrence of the Plague Epidemic of the 15th
> >century.
> 
> >Oh, and PLEASE try to do so in complete sentences.
> 
>         Apples and apples, (one of) the plagues of the 15th century is no
> different from mass extermination by gassing.

Please try again. This time, stick to the criteria.


From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 07:34:27 PDT 1996
Article: 56454 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor/"Images" and Rip Van Winkle
Date: 10 Aug 96 23:18:06
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 37
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<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Nizkor/"Images" and Rip Van Winkle] [Sat 10 Aug 96 03:50][Sat 10 Aug 96
14:31][0]*>

 >> I refer to the copyright laws of Canada and the US.

 >> Please do not post nonsense until you learn something.

 mnc>     What an honest attorney will tell you is that you know
 mnc> nothing of the law until you know the case law.  You must have
 mnc> one or two of that type in Canada.  Perhaps you even know one.

Several, matt.

And - yes - I was talking about case law.

So - go ahead and try to sue.

Remember that Nizkor can't be sued in the US but only in Canada.
People retrieving copies electronically in the US would not be a
violation on the part of Nizkor.

Remember that it is actually part of the Judicial standards in Canada
that the person bringing a frivolous claim pays all costs. Even a
person winning a suit will pay all of the costs if a settlement
offer was made in excess of the actual judgement. Ken needs only to
offer you a toony and you'll end up paying his lawyer and the
courts. You have no reputation to ruin.

So I suggest that your best bet would be to stop saying "I'm gonna
get my daddy to beat you up." and just GROW UP yourself, Matt!

++GMAIL 1.3++ There are none so blind as those who will not see!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 07:34:28 PDT 1996
Article: 56461 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 16:40:43 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <320A50CB.722E@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         As you know IF and ONLY IF you have been following the NG, there has
> been NO physical evidence presented by the holohuggers.  We all know
> that,

Matt, I was here before you were and even when I don't have time to
post, I can still read at extremely high speed.

There is plenty of physical evidence. There has been for over 50 years.

It was presented, many times over the years. I've got megabytes of posts
showing that physical evidence, both here and in other NGs, conferences,
echoes, what have you. You can even get a fully-loaded CD-Rom filled
with such evidence.

I can Email you plenty of physical evidence posts - even a good chunk of
the CD-Rom.

Why do you refuse to accept them?

Why do you hide from the fact that they exist?
> 
>         It is simply a matter of holohuggers pretending it has been presented
> as opposed to rational people.

Thank you for admitting the existence of the physical evidence and your
lack of any answer to the contrary.

I don't see why anybody has any trouble with your words. 

There's nothing opaque in your statements.

In fact, you're totally transparent.


From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 11:33:27 PDT 1996
Article: 56503 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hamblin.math.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!news.celestar.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: listen up, Alec G.
Date: 10 Aug 96 23:25:40
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
References: <094_9608031133@tor250.org> <32042ADD.51A2@infinop.com> <4u1duj$1n0@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32075137.6FD4@gryn.org> <4u9erm$1rb@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <320A6041.1F3C@unb.ca> <4uf2tr$l8c@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> <320c9f0b.7294615@news.inetport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mcurtis@inetport.com

<*[*] [*] [mcurtis@inetport.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[listen up, Alec G.] [Sat 10 Aug 96 10:44][Sat 10 Aug 96 15:44][0]*>

 mc> Mr. Giwer, stop trolling this. I will write a complaint so stop.
 mc> I don't need to read this 40 or 50 times. Actually I don't read
 mc> HTML in Usenet posts. That is what the web is for. Provide a
 mc> URL. Stop reposting this. This is the 3rd time I've seen it
 mc> since I' removed the kill-file. I can easily put the killfile
 mc> back on.

Just do what I do. Warn somebody, then send back 500+ copies in his
Email. Works great! If he likes repetition, accomodate him!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:49 PDT 1996
Article: 56515 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 10 Aug 96 23:35:44
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 82
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:18][Sat 10 Aug 96 20:50][0]*>

 >>> what we have now, we know that the raw information is the
 >>> death of the gassing stories.

 >> 1. You are not a skeptic. Check out the definition.

 >> 2. The raw information verifies the gassing facts.

 >> I can send you that information.

 mnc>     If you have anything new, post it.

The old stuff is already adequate, Matt. You still refuse it,
though.

 >> You keep ignoring the offer, Matt.

 >> The reason is very obvious.

 mnc>     The reason is that I want it in public for all to read and
 mnc> discuss.

They already have seen it, matt. I see no reason to fill up the NG
just so that you can ignore it here.

 mnc>     You want to show off your investment in that CD-ROM.

By sending it to you via Email?!?!

How is that showing anything off?

Only you would see it, Matt.

 >> Just ask for it.

 >> You'll get it.

 mnc>     I know you will send the mail bomb if you can get me to ask
 mnc> for it.  I am not interested.

But all it will be is the physical evidence, Matt.

You claim that there is none - but refuse to accept it via Email
because you KNOW that it will fill up your inbound for weeks!

Congratulations on admitting that there was plenty of physical
evidence, matt!

Congratulations on admitting that you don't want to see it, Matt.

Once somebody starts working their way out of denial, the prognosis
improves considerably.

 mnc>     Now why not post it for everyone to read?  Does it not bear
 mnc> public scrutiny?

It was already posted here, Matt. It's available for anybody who
wants it, Matt.

Except that you really want to disrupt the NG, don't you?


 >> Considering your - er - their penchant for selectivity and
 >> creative editing, why would you want more facts? They only get
 >> in your way.

 mnc>     Considering how many times I have put back what you editted
 mnc> out just to maintain the sense of a post, it is unclear where
 mnc> you claim is coming from.

Zero is an extremely large number to you?!?!

Now - can you repost that in English?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:51 PDT 1996
Article: 56516 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:17:56
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:22][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
 mnc> given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
 mnc> would get their things back

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56537 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 10 Aug 96 23:45:08
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:24][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:16][0]*>

 >>
 >> I had relatives who were babies when they were murdered by the
 >> Nazis. What crime do you think they committed?

 mnc>     Do you have evidence of the murder?  I mean like the
 mnc> forensics having been done on the bodies, that sort of thing.

Yes - the fact that you challenged it.

It's gotten that bad, Matt. You did it to yourself.

As for your inanity, it speaks for itself.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:53 PDT 1996
Article: 56538 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: 10 Aug 96 23:49:14
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us

<*[*] [*] [georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Holocaust Cult and the EU] [Sat 10 Aug 96 10:41][Sat 10 Aug 96
21:27][0]*>

 >> The Holocaust Museum is about that - so Gypsies get a second
 >> position by numbers.
 >>

 gccvu> You have stumbled on the truth.  The Holocaust Museum is not
 gccvu> about Holocaust deaths, but a political agenda.

Have you thought of a brain transplant? I can get a retarded
cockroach for a donor. It should be a big improvement in your case.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:53 PDT 1996
Article: 56539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: listen up, Alec G.
Date: 10 Aug 96 23:52:22
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[listen up, Alec G.] [Sat 10 Aug 96 03:09][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 >> URL, PLEASE!

 mnc>     Why a URL when you can have the real thing?

URL, Please. Of the testimony of the expert that testified.

Testimony that was not selected so carefully by a revisionist.
Impartial testimony.

BTW - please note that this same Legace claimed that bodies would
burst into flames if the furnace wasn't cooled - because they were
so flammable.

Now - how much coke did you say that it took?

Make up your mind, Matt. Even the bogussed testimony shoots you in
the foot.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:54 PDT 1996
Article: 56540 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Trolls
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:00:40
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Trolls] [Sat 10 Aug 96 02:29][Sat
10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again,
 mnc> the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the
 mnc> bodies. By means of a special procedure... they were burned in
 mnc> the open air without the use of fuel."

 mnc> IMT XX - p. 494.

 mnc>     More Nazi physics at work.

 mnc>     I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

 mnc>     On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if
 mnc> they could do this?

You keep repeating the same stuff out of context, Matt - yet you
also quote Legace as to bodies igniting if the furnace is hot
enough.

Make up your mind, Matt.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:55 PDT 1996
Article: 56541 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Giwer is a moron beyond words... (was McVay, never a Marine...)
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:03:42
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Giwer is a moron beyond words... (was McVay, never a Marine.] [Sat 10 Aug
96 03:29][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 >> I said that there might be other corroborating sources, should
 >> it ever come to that. Not that I'm volunteering - just that
 >> other archives might be useful in verifying mine.

 mnc>     Make that four people.

Matt, I doubt that you would be willing to waive your 5th amendment
rights. You can't really be that far gone, can you?

++GMAIL 1.3++ There are none so blind as those who will not see!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 12:13:56 PDT 1996
Article: 56542 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:06:04
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Zyklon B: Kieselguhr & Gypsum] [Sat 10 Aug 96 02:08][Sat 10 Aug 96
21:59][0]*>


 >> It's sure no good method, because first you don't smell it but
 >> for a very short time due to the fact that the nerves in the
 >> nose get paralyzed within a very short time. In addition there
 >> are some people, who are unable to smell it at all for
 >> genetical reasons.

 mnc>     It is interesting that the holohuggers here have claimed it
 mnc> is easy to train people to recognize the smell.  I will admit
 mnc> that despite several invitations to lay out the details of the
 mnc> the training process were met with silence.

So your speaker doesn't work?

Exact details, from DuPont's MSDS pubs were presented.

Errrr - you have heard of DuPont, Matt? They do have a slight bit of
knowledge in chemistry.

 mnc>     What I have been pointing out is that the descriptions of
 mnc> deaths from ZB do not match the reality of such deaths.

Except for a few reports that show either ignorance or
embellishment, the descriptions are accurate.

No, don't show me the few erroneous ones. Post the rest as well,
Matt.



++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 13:25:14 PDT 1996
Article: 56548 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!uct.ac.za!und.ac.za!peacenjoy.mikom.csir.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:11:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <320B38EE.1893@gryn.org>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   <4tke3r$era@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <4tmcnp$60v@access1.digex.net> <4tn81d$21h@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <320135B3.2B0E@unb.ca> <4tuvr7$ga4@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3204EF5B.4C89@unb.ca> <32050A0A.63CE@unb.ca> <4u3ce6$197@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <3206148B.65D5@unb.ca> <32062008.5AE8@unb.ca>  <320A5553.822@unb.ca> <4uf0nd$kno@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         It is good to see you are claiming it floats.

It ain't pure, Matt. It is calcined and very porous.

If fine and poured into water, a large portion wil entrain air and float
for a while.

> 
>         Want to get back to fluid flow near the banks and bottom?  No?  I am
> not surprised, fool.

Why should he get back to an argument that he's already won?


From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 13:25:15 PDT 1996
Article: 56551 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!sloc223.cds.sloc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lagace's testimony
Date: 10 Aug 96 00:05:00
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
References: <4u38ba$fq1@Vir.com>  <3209fff2.6459674@news.pacificnet.net>  <320b4d42.4311173@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: tm@pacificnet.net

<*[*] [*] [tm@pacificnet.net] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Lagace's testimony] [Fri 09 Aug 96 10:49][Fri 09 Aug 96 11:50][0]*>

 tn> whole report.  What it really shows is that Mr.Keren shys away
 tn> from commenting on the main gist of the report, that it shows
 tn> all the Holocaust claims for German crematorium rates as
 tn> fantasies.

 tn>     What about it Mr.Keren, the report states it takes 1 1/2 to
 tn> 2 hours to cremate a body to the fullest, whereas the Holocaust
 tn> story says they could cremate four bodies in 15 minutes, not
 tn> mentioning any cool off time, "continuously". Everything in the
 tn> report denies the claims.

Suuuure!

For some bizarre reason a very large funeral home opened up next
door to a client's office - lots of jokes about it and the size says
that they must expect lots of business. An easy place for answers.

They take 1 1/2 to 2 hours to cremate a body because:

1. There's a casket to burn thru.

2. The furnace has to be heated up.

3. They aren't maintaining a constant flow of bodies to keep the
   heat up.

4. They burn down to a fine ash.

However, there is one interesting thing about the process. It seems
that the time for the majority of the burn on the body itself - once
heat is reached - is LESS than 15 minutes!

 tn> world to give their knowledge of the subject, how many would
 tn> give testimony that
 tn> would support the outlandish Holocaust lies about German
 tn> crematorium rates.   How many would agree with 4 bodies could be
 tn> cremated in 15 minutes whereas modern day crematoriums take 1
 tn> 1/2 to 2 hours.

If they have experience in high-speed cremation, they will verify
the speed.

Now - go over to a fire station and ask *THEM* how fast a body can
burn to ash if the conditions are right.

But you knew that!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 13:25:16 PDT 1996
Article: 56552 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!sloc223.cds.sloc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 10 Aug 96 00:16:38
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>   <4tke3r$era@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <4tmcnp$60v@access1.digex.net> <4tn81d$21h@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <320135B3.2B0E@unb.ca> <4tuvr7$ga4@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3204EF5B.4C89@unb.ca> <32050A0A.63CE@unb.ca> <4u3ce6$197@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ud9pa$513@hil-news-svc-2.compuserve.com> <320A6DF1.5A31@unb.ca> <320A7820.6E07@unb.ca> <4uf16j$2k6@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Holocaust revisionism] [Fri 09 Aug 96 05:40][Fri 09 Aug 96 14:06][0]*>

 >> this will require a grand total of 9600 seconds. Oh dear.  I
 >> seem to have gotton rid of all the ash in 160 minutes...

 mnc>     You REFUSE to respond to me on the issue of the actual size
 mnc> of the bone fragments.  You REFUSE to respond to me on current
 mnc> speed near the banks and bottom.

He already did.

How many repetitions of his calculations do you want?

Just ask for them.

You'll get them.

You lost, Matt.

Sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes tightly
shut and yelling "IS NOT!! IS NOT!! NO WAY!!" is simply immature.

 mnc>     Yet you continue to try to represent bone fragments as mud.

Odd - his equations and formulae specifically used worst case
conditions involving denser and larger fragments. He even corrected
the values downwards when uncertain of the density. It turns out
that he over-corrected - and he still had more than enough numbers
on his side.

You lost, Matt.

Sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes tightly
shut and yelling "IS NOT!! IS NOT!! NO WAY!!" is simply immature.

 mnc>     This is clearly an attempt to decieve on your part.

Since when is the use of easily verified equations deception?

You lost, Matt.

Sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes tightly
shut and yelling "IS NOT!! IS NOT!! NO WAY!!" is simply immature.

 mnc>     You are joining two self professed chemists in the matter of
 mnc> deception despite scientific knowledge.

"Self-professed chemists?!?!"

Want to try that in Earth-talk, Matt?

You challenge somebody on a matter of chemistry - and it turns out
that they happen to be pros?!?

What next? Accusing Stephen Hawking of not knowing quantum
physics?!?

You lost, Matt.

Sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes tightly
shut and yelling "IS NOT!! IS NOT!! NO WAY!!" is simply immature.

 mnc>     It is rather disgusting to see people do things like this.

Yes! How dare they use professional skills to knock you down!

Have you any idea how silly you sound?

Have you now realized why, once they saw what I did 4 years ago,
that you are so valuable here - as the perfect example of a
revisionist losing it. You always lose your battles, Matt.

 mnc>     But then in your case, a strong back was a terrible thing to
 mnc> waste.

Hmmmm! A perfect straight man, too!

You already had the weak mind?

You lost, Matt.

Sticking your fingers in your ears, squinching your eyes tightly
shut and yelling "IS NOT!! IS NOT!! NO WAY!!" is simply immature.


++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 13:25:17 PDT 1996
Article: 56553 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!sloc223.cds.sloc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Roman Empire was.
Date: 10 Aug 96 00:33:06
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <32057386.18750351@news.pacificnet.net> <4u754r$50b@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32075903.1326219@news.pacificnet.net> <3207785E.176C@gryn.org> <3208afe2.1394106@news.pacificnet.net> <320A18E5.5C39@gryn.org> <320b4400.1941214@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: tm@pacificnet.net

<*[*] [*] [tm@pacificnet.net] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Roman Empire was.] [Fri 09 Aug 96 09:59][Fri 09 Aug 96 14:56][0]*>


 >> Odd! So far an enormous amount of physical evidence has been
 >> presented. It has been examined, analyzed and otherwise
 >> processed in great detail.

 tn> Go for it. The "enormous" amount of physical evidence - the
 tn> "great detail" that is.

First I notify your postmaster.

Then I set up the bot. Don't bother setting up your kill file and
pretending that you didn't get it.

Do you pay by the megabyte for storage?

It takes up 2 CD's.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 17:58:46 PDT 1996
Article: 56651 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:23:32
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:22][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
 mnc> given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
 mnc> would get their things back

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 17:58:48 PDT 1996
Article: 56652 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:23:50
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:22][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
 mnc> given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
 mnc> would get their things back

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 17:58:49 PDT 1996
Article: 56653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:24:20
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:22][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
 mnc> given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
 mnc> would get their things back

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 11 17:58:49 PDT 1996
Article: 56654 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:24:24
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:22][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
 mnc> given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
 mnc> would get their things back

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 07:53:42 PDT 1996
Article: 56760 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 00:24:40
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 91
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96
02:22][Sat 10 Aug 96 21:59][0]*>

 mnc> "MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was
 mnc> given a check at each one so that the people believed that they
 mnc> would get their things back

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.

Since this was covered repeatedly, including verification by your
own "expert", this is simply intended to be annoying.

Since you think that repetition makes this true, then I have
permanently refuted you and any further repeats of your quote is
therefore nonsense.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 07:53:44 PDT 1996
Article: 56761 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 11 Aug 96 17:46:34
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 81
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Holocaust revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96 22:07][Sun 11 Aug 96 17:37][0]*>


 >> You lost the argument and simply repeat nonsense - as always.

 mnc>     You really do need to catch up on the conference material.
 mnc> That is one of many I and others have posted.  For example
 mnc> eyewitnesses have conclusively proven that HCN and CO are on the
 mnc> same order of lethality.

Yes - I know - Giwer mathematics: 1, 2, 3, many.

Give it a rest, Matt.

Testifying from memory years after the fact, one will always confuse
and confound the data. That's why good interrogators/investigators
always countercheck material.

 mnc> That is one of many I and others have posted.  For example
 mnc> eyewitnesses have conclusively proven that HCN and CO are on the
 mnc> same order of lethality.

Prove it, Matt. Prove that they have proven it.

 mnc>     You really need to study up on what has been posted.

I did when it was posted, Matt.

Would you like a copy of all of the posts on this material in my
archives?

Just ask for it Matt.

You'll get it.

 >>> Thank you for agreeing they were not describing
 >>> cyanide poisoning.  I will be enjoy posting your agreement.

 >> I would suggest that such a misquote would be the same as lying
 >> and a challenge to disprove your contention yet again.

 >> Not a good idea, Matt.

 mnc>     It is a very good idea but the challenge in in public, not
 mnc> private, not email.  You claim to know what has been posted.
 mnc> Have at it.

I won't waste the NG bandwidth, Matt.

Email, Matt - all of it.

Just ask for it.

You'll get it.

So far all that you've done is admit that the evidence that I'm
right and your wrong, the physical evidence, the postings in this
NG, your prior postings on the subject, those refutations - all of
that is more than you want sent.

You called it a mail bomb - admitting that there is enough of it to
be legitimately called a mail bomb. At least in size.

You've lost yet again. You admit to that loss.

Now - will you accept the proof or just admit that it's too much for
you to handle?

How many repetitions would you like, Matt?

You like repetition - as if that will make something go your way.
How childish, a constant "IS TOO!! IS TOO!"

Grow up, Matt!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 17:09:51 PDT 1996
Article: 56945 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:28:32 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 22
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On 31 Jul 96 20:13:10, alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
> 
> ><*[*] [*] [mgiwer@ix.netcom.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
> ><+[Holocaust revisionism] [Wed 31 Jul 96 04:48][Wed 31 Jul 96 14:05][0]*>
> 
> > mnc>     Nor do I have to note that your blood sugar swings cause
> > mnc> great changes in mood and lucidity.
> 
> >My blood sugar is doing quite nicely, Matt.
> 
> >My mood doesn't change very much at all.
> 
>         How would you know?

Because I have a glucometer and monitor my blood sugar carefully.

As to my lucidity - I have to remain clear-headed to do my work. I never
drink, either, so there is little to affect my lucidity there, either.

Now - what's your excuse?


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 17:09:52 PDT 1996
Article: 56947 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:01:29 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 15
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         As for deliberate actions, you are refusing to acknowledge that this
> "testimony" is the only thing the gassing has to go on as there is no
> physical evidence of gassing.

How many megabytes does your inbound have available?

When do you want the physical evidence docs delivered?

Why do you admit that it would be tantamount to a mail bomb if I send
it?

You lost, Matt.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 20:56:24 PDT 1996
Article: 56962 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:59:13 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <320F9B21.1EDD@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Does "a while" mean the time it will take to reach the North Sea or
> wherever the hell it empties?

No - it would stay in motion because the water is in motion. I was
talking about the fact that the stuff does float for a while.

> 
> >>         Want to get back to fluid flow near the banks and bottom?  No?  I am
> >> not surprised, fool.
> 
> >Why should he get back to an argument that he's already won?
> 
>         You either
> 
>         a)      did not read what he wrote
> 
>         or
> 
>         b)      know nothing of fluid flow through channels.
> 
>         I presume it is the former.


Wrong on both counts. Fluid flow thru channels has 2 degenerate points.

1. The low end, where conditions depend on fluid viscosity.

2. The high end, where the size of the channel is far larger than the
size for which the equations hold. 

IOW - rivers are above the high end.

Boundary turbulence would actually mitigate against your rather flippant
response. 

Be a tad more carefull, Matt. I don't think that Keith wants to appear
as an intellectual bully and that's what you're making him look like.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 20:56:25 PDT 1996
Article: 56963 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:51:00 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <320F9934.1EBA@gryn.org>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com>  <4u984g$pm8@news.iglobal.net> <4ubbi4$pqm@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4ue7o4$6uf@access5.digex.net> <4uf0ki$kno@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <320B381E.578B@gryn.org> <4ujfiu$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <320E232D.6ED5@unb.ca> <4uml17$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 15:15:09 -0300, Keith Morrison 
> wrote:
> 
> >Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> >> >Now for the $64 questions.
> >>
> >> >1. What happens to calcium carbonate when heated?
> >>
> >> >2. What happens to that(1) when placed in water?
> >>
> >> >3. What happens to that(2) when exposed to CO2?

 ....[deletia]


> >>
> >>         Exposure of this relatively inert material to either water or CO2
> >> results in nothing.
> 
> >Water and CO2 form an acidic solution.
> 
>         That is not what was stated, fool.

Read again, Matt.
> 
> >Bone exposed to an acidic solution will dissolve.
> 
> >Next stupid comment?
> 
>         Lets get back to your claim that boundary flow rates are the same as
> the middle of the river flow rates, oh great expert on rivers.

Boundary flow rate differentials are approriate for pipes, not rivers,
since the flow disruption is only a few inches to a few feet, depending
on the velocity.

Within that boundary region, we would have greater turbulence, resulting
in more agitation and more "lift". The result is that :


             YOU SHOULD HAVE LEFT THIS ONE ALONE, MATT!

                   YOU BLEW IT AGAIN!!!

Matt, your podiatrist must be making a fortune off you!


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 20:56:26 PDT 1996
Article: 56976 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holocaust Lies
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:07:36 -0400
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
> >And the Jew next door was your REAL father.   I have the proof.....
> 
>         Are you saying that Jews are natural adulterers?  That they seduce
> their neighbors' wives?

Well, she was the cheapest - and you know how frugal we all are.

It was the double paper bag (in case one broke) that she wore on her
face that convinced him. 

Besides, he wasn't married - gay marriages weren't recognized back then.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 20:56:27 PDT 1996
Article: 56979 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm not a revisionist but here's a thought
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:28:20 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 7
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Because that is the way it is.

Ayup!

Still 100% wrong!


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 20:56:28 PDT 1996
Article: 56982 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm not a revisionist but here's a thought
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:25:04 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         I use the term to everyone who, like a creationist, appears otherwise
> sane but has a total belief in gassing without the slighest bit of
> physical evidence.

Then why do you refuse to request the Emailing of the physical evidence,
Matt?

It isn't *TOO* big!

After all, you say that it's zero!


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 12 20:56:28 PDT 1996
Article: 56983 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm not a revisionist but here's a thought
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:31:39 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 9
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Alexander Baron wrote:
> 
brave
> venture into these waters. David Hoggan is said to have published a
> Revisionist pamphlet anonymously, and Rassinier was an historian. So is
> Mark Weber and so are others.

Is that in the same universe where Ernst Zundel anonymously wrote
"Revisionism - acon game for bilking the retards"?


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 08:04:50 PDT 1996
Article: 57002 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:19:53 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 22
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 1996 22:04:19 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
> wrote:
> 
> >No. One witness said that death in the Treblinka gas
> >chambers took 15 minutes. Most witnesses give a longer
> >time.
> 
>         Post them.

Why waste time reposting that material.

Will you accept them as Email?

Can you wait until the weekend, so that I can run it thru the T1?

Please, Matt, say yes!

I'll make sure that they get to you. 

Very sure.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 08:04:52 PDT 1996
Article: 57005 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Adopt a Holocaust Denier Pledge Program
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:37:58 -0400
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         But then AG researched the law and found that only people with the tax
> exempt status could receive such money.  I really do hope you are
> correct in this matter.

And you accuse *ME* of not reading what people write?!?!?


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 08:04:53 PDT 1996
Article: 57041 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm not a revisionist but here's a thought
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:22:12 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 9
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         The consensus of holohuggers that is.


Yes, I do believe that a group of coprophagous horse-fellators thinks
that it's much lower.

Realists don't.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 08:04:53 PDT 1996
Article: 57074 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:33:28 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 24
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         You REFUSE to respond to me on the issue of the actual size of the
> bone fragments.  You REFUSE to respond to me on current speed near the
> banks and bottom.
> 

He already has responded.

NEXT!

>         Yet you continue to try to represent bone fragments as mud.

Nope!

He represented bone fragments as particles of up to 1 cm across. 

Try again, Matt!
> 
>         This is clearly an attempt to decieve on your part.

Prove it.

No "IS NOT! IS NOT!", Matt.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 09:28:17 PDT 1996
Article: 39219 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holocaust Lies
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 18:07:36 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <320FAB28.7F16@gryn.org>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2561 alt.revisionism:56976 alt.conspiracy:77410 alt.politics.white-power:39219 soc.culture.jewish:67823

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
> >And the Jew next door was your REAL father.   I have the proof.....
> 
>         Are you saying that Jews are natural adulterers?  That they seduce
> their neighbors' wives?

Well, she was the cheapest - and you know how frugal we all are.

It was the double paper bag (in case one broke) that she wore on her
face that convinced him. 

Besides, he wasn't married - gay marriages weren't recognized back then.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 11:40:40 PDT 1996
Article: 57100 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer the Criminal
Followup-To: alt.test,alt.flame
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:47:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <320FA65E.7FB7@gryn.org>
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Pissed Youth wrote:

> Jew.

Praying to one's deity should be done in private.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 15:25:15 PDT 1996
Article: 57134 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:36:58 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <320F95EA.5A66@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         The reason is that you are at least honest in professional matters, as
> is AG.   He, on the other hand, drops a subject when he would have to
> admit the facts are against holohuggers.

Prove it, Matt!

So far the only person dropping a subject - or trying to - is you when
you lose.

> 
>         You appear to be willing to procede to the bitter end in your claims.
> 
>         This is all a show for the lurkers.
> 
>         If you had dropped it, they would not be reading your continued
> attempts to revive a failed issue by continuing this exchange.

Ayup! It's a failed issue - because he won the argument.

GROW UP, MATT!

> 
>         Why do you to it?

Because he's winning.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 23:12:11 PDT 1996
Article: 57158 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:38:15 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <3210CB97.14DE@gryn.org>
References: <4u3gqb$f9d@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <320A09D6.1C76@gryn.org> <4uheiq$adj@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         What you are missing is that Keren is making it up as he goes along
> and you are falling for it.  Why do you not ask him for the URL?

What makes you think that this is the first mention of the grills,
NEWCOMER!

You should try to get some archives of what was discussed before you
arrived.

Would you like some archives, Matt?

Just ask for it and you'll get it.

> Obviously you do not question what you want to believe.

Now - anybody would simply have challenged the statement as to where the
original would have been found.

Did it not occur to you that, in the case of a sudden fabrication, the
quote would have mentioned wire mesh and bluish crystals?

Instead you show what you're really after - making you extremely
valuable to us folks who know that the gassings are a fact.

> 
> >> Why do you lie so much?
> 
> >Because inventing evidence is easier than going to the library and
> >looking it up!
> 
> >I told you! Matt is a troll!
> 
>         Keren just made it up.  That must make him a troll.

Silly boy! Just because you're the newcomer here is no reason to
discount what *YOU* haven't seen before as fabricated.

But - you do have this tendency of sticking your fingers in your ears
and yelling "IS NOT!! IS NOT!!".

Grow up, Matt.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 23:12:13 PDT 1996
Article: 57170 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz Myths and Facts
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:17:05 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <3210D4B1.49CE@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Danny boy, the pipes are callin you.  Throwing in children, a terrible
> cry.  Heat given off when there is no source of heat.
> 

As always, you shoot yourself in the foot, Matt.

The human body radiates heat at a temperature of 37 Celsius (98.6 to
save you taking off your shoes). Place those folks in a small room and
the temperature of the room will soar. 

This happens in even relatively sparsely-occupied offices when they
close the door.

In the jammed-full rooms of the gas chambers, the temperature will rise
evn more quickly.

It is obvious that you never attended many closed-door meetings.

You reveal much of yourself.

Including a willingness to look for flaws that aren't there.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 13 23:12:14 PDT 1996
Article: 57173 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Creationist/exterminationist similarities
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:02:57 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <3210D161.7157@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:

>         Sorry, nerfbrain, I have forgotten more about this than any riverine
> fluid flow "expert" will ever know.  Give it up.  You have not the
> slighest idea what is going on in the first place.

Matt, so far you've shown that you know less than can be written on the
back of a postage stamp.

In War Caps!

Grow up!


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 08:50:21 PDT 1996
Article: 57221 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:17:24 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <320B3A64.439C@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 08 Aug 1996 09:28:09 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
> wrote:
> 
> >We already settled that one, Matt.
> 
> >I see no need to repeat an argument that you lost so easily.
> 
> >As for trying to engage you in it - most certainly *NOT*!
> 
>         I agree it was settled.  The descriptions provided do not in any
> manner match cyanide poisoning -- unless you are into gelatinous
> mixtures of flesh and clothing that is.
> 

Yet again you bring up a single erroneous description among thousands of
accurate ones.

Sorry, but trying to carp on that single error is just intellectual
dishonesty. 

You lost the argument and simply repeat nonsense - as always.

> >>         Any time you think you are ready.
> 
> >Ready to rehash old material yet again?!? Hardly!
> 
>         Thank you for agreeing they were not describing cyanide poisoning.  I
> will be enjoy posting your agreement.

I would suggest that such a misquote would be the same as lying and a
challenge to disprove your contention yet again. 

Not a good idea, Matt.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 08:50:22 PDT 1996
Article: 57248 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:07:42 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <320B381E.578B@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Tell it to the idiots are who claiming it floats.  Then get back to
> me.

TRY AGAIN, MATT.

YOU JUST DON'Y SEE IT, DO YOU?

YOU were the one to say that calcium oxide sinks. 

I said that it depends on the form and that it dissolves.

*YOU* claim that bones do not have carbon.

Mike has stated that *YOUR CLAIM* is wrong - since bones are not made of
calcium oxide.

Mike is right. 

Now for the $64 questions. 

1. What happens to calcium carbonate when heated?

2. What happens to that(1) when placed in water?

3. What happens to that(2) when exposed to CO2?

.
.
.
  
> 
>         You have just shot down your fellow holohuggers and do not know.

Once again you have evaded the challenge by making a silly statement.

He just shot you down.

You, once again, are in desparate need of a podiatrist.


>         What an asshole.

Yet again you lose the debate and admit it.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 08:50:22 PDT 1996
Article: 57257 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Roman Empire was.
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 11:55:50 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <320B5F86.48D6@gryn.org>
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Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> Get of the pot, Moron.  Much of the physical evidence has been posted in this
> newsgroup, some of it dozens of times.  Try a little research for once instead
> of always asking others to do it for you.

Gord, You KNOW why I asked him if he really wanted the evidence. I
haven't been able to really stress my system yet and I need to see what
its limits really are!


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 08:50:23 PDT 1996
Article: 57261 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 12:08:27 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <320B627B.2C25@gryn.org>
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Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
>         Ooooo.  Another threat.  Golly gee.  I'm really worried.
> 
>         I think I'll make the call tonight.

Matt does not have any children.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 10:30:50 PDT 1996
Article: 39426 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Followup-To: alt.test,alt.flame
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:43:39 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3210CCDB.547A@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         It is truly instructive to watch the creation of a reality go on as I
> watch.


Matt,

So far you have not been libelled. The laws about libel are very
specific.

Your accusations of harassment are, however, libellous.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 10:33:40 PDT 1996
Article: 77848 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Followup-To: alt.test,alt.flame
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:43:39 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3210CCDB.547A@gryn.org>
References:  <070700Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>  <31fcca2e.1495388@news.pacificnet.net> <4tmo4e$sii@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4tngc2$ilv@news1.panix.com> <4tpqje$d5t@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4tqbj8$erh@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4u0dp0$jba@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4u4cnu$up8@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <4u72nf$46t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4u8i96$sc4@news1.panix.com> <4u9h0r$29s@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ueq8l$s0c@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4uldvp$ejv@news1.panix.com>  <4umd81$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         It is truly instructive to watch the creation of a reality go on as I
> watch.


Matt,

So far you have not been libelled. The laws about libel are very
specific.

Your accusations of harassment are, however, libellous.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 10:42:21 PDT 1996
Article: 2609 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Followup-To: alt.test,alt.flame
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:43:39 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <3210CCDB.547A@gryn.org>
References:  <070700Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>  <31fcca2e.1495388@news.pacificnet.net> <4tmo4e$sii@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4tngc2$ilv@news1.panix.com> <4tpqje$d5t@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4tqbj8$erh@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4u0dp0$jba@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4u4cnu$up8@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <4u72nf$46t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4u8i96$sc4@news1.panix.com> <4u9h0r$29s@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4ubqq0$ndv@news1.panix.com> <4ubti0$pkf@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4ueq8l$s0c@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4uldvp$ejv@news1.panix.com>  <4umd81$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2609 alt.revisionism:57274 alt.conspiracy:77848 alt.politics.white-power:39426

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         It is truly instructive to watch the creation of a reality go on as I
> watch.


Matt,

So far you have not been libelled. The laws about libel are very
specific.

Your accusations of harassment are, however, libellous.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 15:43:52 PDT 1996
Article: 57333 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:20:08 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3211E098.ABC@gryn.org>
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Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
> >   june25@ix.netcom.com(Thomas Ander) writes:
> 
> 
> >  Crematorias leave no stench. Whatever the inmates smelled, it was not
> >  the burning of flesh; and there is much proof to that effect.
> >  Tom
> 
>         I know lots of people who have a different opinion.  They live next to
> a crematorium.
> 

Let's not forget that we're also talking about crematoria designed for
mass burning, not politeness to the surrounding country-side.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 15:43:54 PDT 1996
Article: 57334 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: History for mental midgets
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:40:23 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Those who forget history are duomed to repeat it.

No wonder! With your memory, you have to repeat your mistakes! You can't
help it!


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 15:43:54 PDT 1996
Article: 57335 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: whois from nic.ddn.mil  (KM214)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:54:48 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> McVay, Ken (KM214)

Clever, Matt - but meaningless.

If you browse thru the web pages at the DOD enough, you quickly find a
lot of info that you can register to get. If you register with them you
get a contact number (mine is AG50 on the InterNIC - same idea).

Big deal! All that you found is that Ken McVay has requested
registration for something-or-other. Whup-te-do!

Also NOYDB!

Now - anybody with brains would quickly realise that no covert operation
material would be in the DoD NIC where anybody could get at it. 

So - who are you trying to impress - the brainless?


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 16:17:15 PDT 1996
Article: 57346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:06:49 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         I have, many times, and you have commented upon them.  Did you really
> miss the "gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing" detail.  You can
> only play this game so many times.
> 

Repeating the same three stories 50 times does not make it "many", Matt.

Try again.

> 
> >"All the gassing camps"? What garbage.
> 
>         Tell him, not me.
> 

No, Matt, you tell us how you know that he said all of the gassing
camps.

> >You hear only the survivors. True, most of them were
> >lucky. The rest aren't here to speak.
> 
>         It is interested that you claim to hear the dead speak.  Yet your
> story rests solely upon the unregistered, that being a few extra
> million out of the untraceable 31 million from that war.
> 

The fact that you side-stepped things here speaks volumes, Matt.

Try again.

 
> >This was the end of the war. Some people were lucky. Some
> >survived. What the hell is your point?
> 
>         Luck explains all of the incredible stories.  Just like Alec explained
> the man gassed six times and live, just luck.

Hmmmm! I picked up the wrong compound and forgot to dilute the acid.
Potassium Cyanide in concentrated acid - yet I'm alive. 

I already mentioned that one.

I wonder why you didn't challenge that one. Could it be because you
don't want to hear the answer?

How about the time when I grabbed an electrode in each hand and the
machine was still "live". 100 Kilovolts. But, I'm still alive.

Same here, Matt.

That witness could have been gassed 6 times and survivied: 

1. Because he was lucky to have been used in some experiment on lethal
times and quantities rather than simply exterminated.

2. Because they weren't even testing the gas yet - merely the
procedures.

You haven't shown a single case where the events were impossible -
merely where memories and facts were Osterized afterwards.

IOW - we're still waiting for your evidence, Matt.

> 
> >I don't have to explain it, because it's not true.
> 
>         You pretend not to have read anything I have posted.		

Your statement is false. 

But you know that.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 14 21:43:10 PDT 1996
Article: 57405 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 16:41:34 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Message-ID: <320F96FE.43D1@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 08 Aug 1996 14:14:56 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
> wrote:
> 
> >OK - Agreed.
> 
> >You confess to losing yet another argument.
> 
>         Confess?

Ayup! The remainder of this message is more of your confession.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 15 07:49:39 PDT 1996
Article: 57426 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 13:20:09 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <32120AC9.A9A@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         You need to take lessons from YFE in lying about what constitutes
> physical and forensic evidence.  They you could do a better job.
> 

We already know that you'd be a much better teacher, Matt - all that
experience, right back thru GTnet!

Now - when are you going to provide evidence per your specs as to the
Dresden "Firebombing"?

> >The funny thing is that, for the gassings at Auschwitz-
> >Birkenau, there's *more* of this type of evidence than
> >for your average historical event: the cyanide compounds
> >on the walls of the gas chambers.
> 
>         On the walls of the morgues which were of course fumigated.
> 

The s morgues weren't analyzed - just the gassing cellars.

> ># Take a random sampling of camp inmates and ask of
> ># gassing is happening.  70% say yes.
> 
> >And your source for the 70% is? None. You've invented it.
> 
>         If not true then it was not common knowledge as required by so many of
> the stories.

No, Matt - where did you get that 70% figure? References, please.

Don't bother mentioning DejaNews. It isn't there.

Now - where did you get the 70% figure?


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 15 07:49:40 PDT 1996
Article: 57432 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 15:38:40 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         A revionist will never call you a name for questioning what they post.
> 

Where was your COFFEE ALERT?!?!

You simply can't be serious! I could create a mailbomb of all the
messages that did just that - and only include your postings!


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 15 07:49:41 PDT 1996
Article: 57456 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor:  promoter of lies
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:44:25 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Message-ID: <320FA5B9.7D4B@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         You can stop asking Alec.  This is what he was supposed to have
> remembered.

Of course I remembered! I also know that you have NO offspring!

> 
>         You folks are fucking stupid.

No - stupid got smart and started charging for it.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 15 07:49:42 PDT 1996
Article: 57457 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer the Criminal
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 17:49:22 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <320FA6E2.40D3@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Are you going to tell your provider, in light of your claim to be an
> attorney and the absense of a conviction, that you are not committing
> libel against me?
> 

Nope!

And you obviously don't know that!

> 
>         Yes there is.  You are below threshold of being sued.
> 
>         As for netcom, they have spent so much time dealing with holohugger
> mailbombs and forged email harrassment that I will be surprised if you
> even get a response from them.

Yet again - prove it.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 15 13:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 57551 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:08:51 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 8
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         You are also wrong.

IOW - "NOT SO! NOT SO!"

AKA - you evade the answer.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 15 18:57:00 PDT 1996
Article: 57602 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:23:20 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <321340E8.17F1@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>         Anything that sits on the boundary doesn't care.  Ashes in such
> quantities become the new boudardy, the new bottom and or bank with
> new mud and organic matter settling over them.

"In which case the abracadabra factor causes it to turn to salt and
dissolve into purple peonies."

Your answer is as logical as that sentence, no more. 

Try sticking to something that you know, Matt.

> 
>         And what is still of interest is whether there was a bridge to dump
> them off of or they were just shoveled in at the banks.

As in faster flow and disprsion?!?

The banks would have been fast enough if the dumped it at the end of a
pier - SOP back then.

> 
>         And then there are still the ashes in the lakes which have no flow at
> all.

WOW!! DEAD SEAS EVERYWHERE!

Lakes have currents, Matt - as quite a few people discover each year.

> 
> >Be a tad more carefull, Matt. I don't think that Keith wants to appear
> >as an intellectual bully and that's what you're making him look like.
> 
>         I did not say he was.  I have noted only that, like so many others who
> know better, they will misrepresent what they know to support any
> eyewitness story that comes along no matter how absurd.

He definitely knows better than you. He has presented his material,
complete with calculations - issuing corrections that he noticed before
anybody else even had a chance to check his calculations.

You have presented nada. Hand waving. Evasion. A TOTAL lack of scintific
procedure.

I told them that you were a valuable ally and a perfect foil.

Thanks for helping to prove me right.

> 
> =====
> 
>         And to think this all started with my observation that no one had ever
> even looked for the ashes much less found them.  From my point of view
> it appears that the objective of all of this digression into unrelated
> matters is only to be able to draw attention away from what I first
> said.

And to think that it was a typically silly statement from yourself,
implying that nobody looked because there wasn't any - when the reality
is that it was too scattered to be of any use as evidence.

But you knew that.
> 
>         If this were a normal discussion, my statement would have simply been
> accepted as true and we could have gotten on with the discussion.

It was a normal discussion and your statement was taken at the same
value that you have placed on all your statements - zero.

You did it to yourself, Matt.

> 
>         But this has gone on so long that I have taken the time to post the
> volume and weight and the expected densities in certain places, we
> have gotten into river flow which indicates they were still there at
> A-B when the Russians chose not to look for them.

Since there was strong evidence that the ashes were dispersed as to make
looking for them a waste of time and since you simply handwaved away the
river dumping, your argument was crushed utterly by simple physics.

> 
>         And in all of this, the closest we have had to a rebuttal is one
> recounting of one search many years later around Birkenau that claims
> to have recovered from fragments of bone, flesh and hair MANY YEARS
> LATER.  The inclusion of finding flesh makes this sound like another
> KGB fabrication.

Want to post that recounting, Matt?

If you don't have all of the postings, I may be able to accomodate you.

Is your news address correct for Email?

Just ask for it.

You'll get it.


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 07:51:25 PDT 1996
Article: 57649 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.etri.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 14 Aug 96 21:32:18
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 66
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<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer 
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Sat 10 Aug 96 22:07][Tue 13 Aug 96 15:40][0]*>


 >> You lost the argument and simply repeat nonsense - as always.

 MG>   You really do need to catch up on the conference material.
 MG> That is one of many I and others have posted.  For example
 MG> eyewitnesses have conclusively proven that HCN and CO are on the
 MG> same order of lethality.

Make this claim again and I'll demonstrate how much I've read via
Email - OK?

When do you want it, Matt?

 MG>   For example there is the rest of the gelatinous mass story
 MG> which has similar problems as well as the two other stories of
 MG> the first gassing including the words of Hoess himself where he
 MG> describes witnessing it.

So? Why not quote the material in context, Matt?

If you have trouble with the witness material, I can send that too.

Just ask for it Matt.

You'll get it.

 MG>   You really need to study up on what has been posted.

I've read the facts and I've read your nonsense.

Now - I know that you're hoping to goad me into "harassing" you with
a mailbomb so that you can leave with an excuse.

No such luck, Matt.

You'll have to ask for it.

In the meantime, I'll set up a bot to keep asking you why you refuse
to look at the evidence.

 >> Not a good idea, Matt.

 MG>   It is a very good idea but the challenge in in public, not
 MG> private, not email.  You claim to know what has been posted.
 MG> Have at it.

By Email, Matt - all of it.

You refuse to accept that Email, because you know that you can't
handle the volume. You've even called it a "mail bomb".

Yet you continue to post the claims that you've already admitted are
false.

Have you no shame, Matt?

Have you no sense of reality and justice at all?

++GMAIL 1.3++ There are none so blind as those who will not see!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 07:51:26 PDT 1996
Article: 57660 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hollohuggers suck!
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:00:27 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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John819194 wrote:
> 
> I piss your holocaust.   (Pissing right now..)
> 

Did you get your tweezers wet?


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 07:51:27 PDT 1996
Article: 57685 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 14 Aug 96 21:47:26
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
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<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer 
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Tue 13 Aug 96 19:10][Wed 14 Aug 96 12:25][0]*>

 >>> actual size of the bone fragments.  You REFUSE to respond to
 >>> me on current speed near the banks and bottom.

 >> He already has responded.

 >> NEXT!

 MG>   Sorry, he dropped it.  He knows and you know it is false.

Merely because the response isn't what you want, it's still a
response.

It isn't false.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 07:51:28 PDT 1996
Article: 57707 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Leuchter?  Again? WAS [Fwd: Nazi gas chambers]
Date: 15 Aug 96 07:16:50
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 71
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<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer 
<+[Re: Leuchter?  Again? WAS [Fwd: Nazi gas chambers]] [Wed 14 Aug 96
05:50][Thu 15 Aug 96 01:33][0]*>


 >> The only problem with this theory is that there were two
 >> underground rooms in Kremas II and III which were called
 >> Leichenkellers (morgues). Yet only one of those rooms in each
 >> building was fitted with a gas-tight door.  Therefore the
 >> bodies in the other room could not be fumigated and rats would
 >> be able to eat to their hearts' content.

 MG>   There is no evidence o separate fumigation.

 MG>   If you are truly claiming there was a room within the LK that
 MG> was the one used, that were were partitions within it, then you
 MG> have created a new order of impossible much like finding orders
 MG> of infinity.  They were impossible enough numbers when the
 MG> entire LK was used for gassing.  But your claim has produced and
 MG> "aleph sub 1" order of impossibility.

Egads but you're not reading, Matt.

1. That there were 2 rooms is obvious.

2. That one was gas-tight is obvious.

3. Why would one room be gas-tight and the other not if the purpose
   of the cyanide was fumigation?

4. The size of the room was adequate for the number per gassing. The
   *ROOM* size was given, not the entire complex!

 MG>   And the amazing thing is that you are not bright enough to
 MG> know what you have done.

The amazing thing is that you are deliberately missing the obvious
in your blind attempts to win arguments.

GROW UP MATT!

 >> not even leaving the newsgroup.  I would have thought someone
 >> as smart as he thinks he is would have figured it out long
 >> ago. But of course he is not half as smart as he thinks he is.

 MG>   Legal way?  You mean that I should point to a law that
 MG> prohibits Nizkor volunteers from conspiring to violate my
 MG> copyright to what I post?

Fair use, Matt.

And don't pull the Canadian/American schtick again. I'm talking
about the same thing on both sides of the border.

IOW - there is no law that prevents them from publishing your
broadcasts.

 MG>   Or do you hold that a copyright does not exist from the moment
 MG> of creation?  Are you aware of what copyright means?

I am. It's obvious that you are not.

The law is what it is, not what you'd like it to be.

GROW UP, MATT!

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 07:51:29 PDT 1996
Article: 57725 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:16:38 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <32136986.37BB@gryn.org>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2652 alt.revisionism:57725 alt.conspiracy:78321 alt.politics.white-power:39637

Matt Giwer wrote:

>         Because there is no law against spreading lies.  Blacks, like Jews,
> are permitted to spread any lies they want and to spread them as far
> as they want.


Prove it.
 
>         Screwie Louie spreads his crap with equal protection as does Elie
> Wiesel or Simon Wiesenthal.  All are lies.  And all are protected by
> political correctness.
> 

Prove it, Matt.

>         And if you do not think that Jews hate Schwartzes you will have to ask
> just who made schwartes a negative term.
> 

The Belgians.

>         Multi-generation Americans such as myself consider this Black-Jew
> mutual hatred that has gone on for decades.
> 

What Black-Jewish hatred? Do you mean the hatred of the Ethiopean Jews
for themselves? When did this happen?

Or is it my family for my aunt? Don't let her know. As far as we're
concerned, my uncle made one good decision in his life - marrying her!

Or the friends whose wedding we attended?

Oooooh! I know! Sammy Davis Jr!

Or maybe it was the hatred of Jews for their fellow BLACK Jews in New
York?

Or maybe the self-converted tribe in Uganda? They chose Judaism as their
religion from studies only. They were practicing the faith before they
even met a Jew. 

>         They should go solve it among themselves without involving the rest of
> he world.

Earth to Matt!

Earth to Matt!

Damn the limited range of this stuff.

You're too far gone!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 11:36:52 PDT 1996
Article: 39656 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phoenicians and America
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:10:51 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 22
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References: <01bb8a70.cd8d9980$7aa11dcb@peasant>
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Ourobouros wrote:
> 
> throughout the world, ie., containing Phoencian artifacts.  BTW, the cover
> of said book has a sculpture of a Phoenician head with
> blue eyes.

Phoenicians were the original Semites. Hebrew is a dialect of
Phoenician.

So we have Phoenicians -> Hebrews -> Jews.

Da Joos was here foist!

Now we know what happened to the lost tribes!

They became "Native Americans"!

Which means that this land is part of Israel and belongs to da Joos!

ZOG must be informed immediately!

Wadda marroon!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 13:30:44 PDT 1996
Article: 57752 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phoenicians and America
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:10:51 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <32135A1B.E26@gryn.org>
References: <01bb8a70.cd8d9980$7aa11dcb@peasant>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:39656 alt.revisionism:57752

Ourobouros wrote:
> 
> throughout the world, ie., containing Phoencian artifacts.  BTW, the cover
> of said book has a sculpture of a Phoenician head with
> blue eyes.

Phoenicians were the original Semites. Hebrew is a dialect of
Phoenician.

So we have Phoenicians -> Hebrews -> Jews.

Da Joos was here foist!

Now we know what happened to the lost tribes!

They became "Native Americans"!

Which means that this land is part of Israel and belongs to da Joos!

ZOG must be informed immediately!

Wadda marroon!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 13:30:46 PDT 1996
Article: 57758 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: to summarize
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:19:03 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <32136A17.3588@gryn.org>
References: <4uuu8t$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         In the last three months the truth seekers (aka revionsits) have
> beaten the crap out of the holohuggers.  The strange thing is that the
> holohuggers have not realized they have died in the process in defense
> of thos position.

Is this how you "win" arguments?

"Mommy! Mommy! I won! I won! I kept hitting his fist with my nose until
he gave up at the sight of all my blood!"

Grow up, Matt!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 16 13:30:46 PDT 1996
Article: 57759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: to the anti-gassing lurkers
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:16:56 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <32135B88.44EF@gryn.org>
References: <4uusoe$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         The holohuggers are under control.
> 
>         Of course if you post they are going to attack you.
> 
>         You need not do more than post your opinion.
> 
>         If you feel uncomfortable doing that email me and I will put you in
> touch with many people who will email you sympathetically.  You are
> not alone.  I even have some mailing lists that I can put you on.
> 
>         Despite the massive crap you see here, there is another side of it
> that does not attack a politically incorrect position on the matter.
> 
>         There are many of is.

Do you know how these newsreaders work, Matt?

Why are you addressing yourself in the second person?

You've lost it, Matt. 

Take a rest.

Spend time reading the material about the gassings that I can send you.

Just ask for it.

You'll get it.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:04 PDT 1996
Article: 57887 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Lies
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:37:13 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <32134429.4408@gryn.org>
References:  <4upi1m$liv@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  
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Daniel Keren wrote:
> 
> 
> All this Holocaust-denial is a hate trip for him. Don't
> think that he *really* believe there was no Holocaust. He's
> just looking for a way in which, so he hopes, he can
> hurt people to the max.

If you believe this to be his motivation, then you are mistaken.

It's more bizarre than that.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:05 PDT 1996
Article: 57893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:33:37 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <32134351.5459@gryn.org>
References: <4tn807$21h@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <476_9607312109@tor250.org> <4uens5$89s@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <320B94FB.56B5@gryn.org> <4ujh8k$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <320F9BA9.1873@gryn.org> <4uufac$3el@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         IF you have any such physical evidend THEN you can be the FIRST to
> post it publically.

How about this, then. I post it to you with return receipts, so that I
can verify that you looked at each piece.

Once that's done, *THEN* I post the stuff to Tom Moran to witness it.

> 
>         You are not the first person to pretend to having information but
> refusing to post it publically.

As for posting it publicly, it's been done, Matt.

Why make every news server pay for stuff because *YOU* are avoiding it
and you trying to pretend that not flooding the NG worse than you is the
same as me pretending to have it?

The stuff is available in many places.

> 
>         I had expected better of you.

Then take me up on the offer. 

Just ask for it.

You'll get it.


From alec@gryn.org@ Mon Aug 19 16:03:05 PDT 1996
Article: 57908 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@     (Big Kahuna)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 16 Aug 1996 21:45:29 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4v2q5p$k46@news1.io.org>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:83086 alt.revisionism:57908

In <4v1avm$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>	Show the physical evidence that it was used.  Be the first.  Start a
>tradition.  
>

You already admitted to the existence of that evidence.

Please try to be consistent while you're being wrong.
>
>



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:06 PDT 1996
Article: 57929 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Date: 15 Aug 96 06:50:07
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <4uhi8c$gfa@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4un03j$9vn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4us6cs$gfb@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <3211c4a5.1386966@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: tm@pacificnet.net

<*[*] [*] [tom moran ] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1)] [Wed 14 Aug 96 08:23][Thu 15
Aug 96 01:33][0]*>


 tm>   Intentionally making photos obscure is a common practice of
 tm> the Holocaust dependents.

Making idiot remarks such as above is a common practice of
reality-avoiders.

Anybody can move backwards up the chain towards the original
photograph - or at least as far back as to the point where the
evidence is available in as close to its original form as still
exists.

What may be shown downstream of that is based on the medium and
accessibility *at the time* that it was made available.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:07 PDT 1996
Article: 57930 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)
Date: 14 Aug 96 21:42:05
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <4u3b1k$hq2@Vir.com> <4uh1n8$1le@Vir.com>  <4ulbaj$p2k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: dkeren@world.std.com

<*[*] [*] [Daniel Keren 
<+[Re: A revisionist FAQ (1) (Repost)] [Mon 12 Aug 96 04:15][Tue 13 Aug 96
15:40][0]*>

 DK> But you know this. You're just waging a war of attrition.
 DK> That's all a little zero like you can do; lie and
 DK> try to exhaust the opposition by endlessly repeating
 DK> the same lies. However, dreck, I'm here to stay. This
 DK> is a promise, dreck.

But bots have even more patience. I'm porting some very useful code
>from  a mainframe. It'll answer Matt's messages in a way that he'll
not like - I'm sure of it. Legally, yet!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:07 PDT 1996
Article: 58022 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!netaxs.com!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: David Duke Campaigns To Become An America-First Senator
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 17:10:15 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <321240B7.47AB@gryn.org>
References: <062304Z13081996@anon.penet.fi> <32112AC8.4289@intersurf.com> <19960813987.ZOG@c2.org>
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Rich Graves wrote:
>> 
> Damn! There you go violating the Coffee Rule again. Please, people, when
> you're going to prove someone so ineffably stupid, warn us up front so
> that we can protect our keyboards.
> 

It's not always the keyboard! Whenever somebody *REALLY* does a funny on
Matt - er - a "revisionist", I end up trying to keep from laughing.

It doesn't work though. Have you ever ended up with coffee coming out
your nose and staining your shirt?


From alec@gryn.org@ Mon Aug 19 16:03:08 PDT 1996
Article: 58040 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org@     (Big Kahuna)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phoenicians and America
Date: 18 Aug 1996 02:35:34 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <4v5vhm$i9b@news1.io.org>
References: <01bb8a70.cd8d9980$7aa11dcb@peasant> <32135A1B.E26@gryn.org> <321480ba.855896@news.pacificnet.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:39840 alt.revisionism:58040

In <321480ba.855896@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>	The Jews were here last. The development of writing occurred over
>a long period of time, with the last great contribution coming from
>the Phoenicians. 
>	

Any desparate attempt to try to downplay Jewish contributions, I see.

As feeble as always.


>       The Meso-Americans left a great history of art, as did the
>Phoenicians and everyone else. Everyone but the Jews. They had to have
>the same build their temple. They had no skills or culture.

Prove it.

Or get the real facts dumped in your inbound.

>
>	The Phoenicians and the Hebrews lived next to each other. They
>were two entirely two different cultures. 

Wadda Marroon.

Prove it.

Demonstrate your time machine.

>
>	History books and history art books might have twenty of thirty
>pages on various societies, but when it comes to the Hebrews, maybe
>one page.

Where do you want the evidence that your an idiot delivered?

Your current address - or via POSTMASTER?
                                         >
>	Any boats the Hebrews ever had, they had to have the Phoenicians
>build them for them. If anyone ever got to the Americas from the
>Mediterranean it would have been the Phoenicians, and the Hebrews
>would have been the least likely.

Prove it.
>
>	The only thing the Jews have, is chutzpa. The non-reality.
>
Prove it.

>>Now we know what happened to the lost tribes!
>>
>>They became "Native Americans"!
>>
>>Which means that this land is part of Israel and belongs to da Joos!
>
>>ZOG must be informed immediately!
>>
>>Wadda marroon!
>
>
>	What we have witnessed here is the Hebrew ego at work under the
>guise of being witty. In the end, only wishful thinking out loud.
>

What you've witnessed is sarcasm.

You are a total asshole.

And that's your best quality.

>       The Jews despise other peoples cultures. I have never met a Jew
>yet who didn't just scoff if you raise a discussion about the arts and
>attainments of other cultures.

Prove it.

Refuse to prove your contentions and I'll be authorised - by you - to state that
you admitted that all you do is distort and forge statements.

A bot will take care of that quite nicely.



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58221 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jews Run Everything
Date: 17 Aug 96 12:59:39
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <9ba_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kurtstele@aol.com

<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Jews Run Everything] [Friday August 16 1996 20:19][*][0]*>

 KS> Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13 wrote:

 >> Can someone checks this? Is there really such a domain
 >> as "Israel.com", or this another nazi-boy pretending to
 >> be a Jew? We've seen this before.
 >>
 >> Another Nazi-boy pretending to be a Jew.
 >>
 >> It's bogus.
 >>

 KS> yeah?  well prove it then

 KS> Why should anyone think Mr. Ira  is "another
 KS> nazi-boy pretending to be a jew" instead of an -actual- jew?

Because the message was sent out with a bogus header. Just look at
the headings yourself.

Because the comments are against the very basis of Judaism.


 KS> All Mr. Epstein is doing is just spouting the essence of the
 KS> Jewish religion as clearly outlined in both the Talmud and Old
 KS> Testament:

 KS> "The Jews are the master race, and the goyim are dogs."

Because "he" makes just that claim - which is not found in the
Talmud or Legitimate Bible.

 KS> This attitude should be apparent to anyone what the slightest
 KS> knowledge of jewish hypocrisy:

AKA - nobody but the brain-dead.

 KS> 1)  "We want to mix -your- race, but keep -ours- separate."

Prove it.

 KS> 2)  "We want to racially integrate and diversify -your- nation
 KS> and race, but keep -our- Israeli borders inviolable."

Prove it.

 KS> 3)   "We denounce the Holo(hoax) but we continue to brutalize
 KS> Palestinian men, women, and children."

Prove it.

 KS> Well, I for one think Mr. Ira  is a jew.
 KS> He's just a little more honest than most of you

If he is a Jew then you are a decent human being - IOW - he's a Nazi
fake.

 KS> One tends to get brave after battening off all those US
 KS> subsidies to Israel, ya know

There were no US subsidies to Israel.

 KS> You better e-mail Mr. Epstein and tell him to calm it down, lest
 KS> he wake any goyim up

As soon as he exists - IOW never.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58222 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 17 Aug 96 13:30:58
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <9bc_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)] [Saturday August 17
1996 06:07][*][0]*>

 MG>   The rock is shipping them to gas them to save bullets.

 MG>   The hard place is not gassing them in place.

 MG>   You are invited to invent a way out of the middle.

The answer is simple.

You have been 100% wrong to date.

You have stated that it makes no sense.

Therefore - it's the optimal solution.

GET REAL, MATT!

Most of the victims lived in Eastern Europe.

The heaviest level of antipathy against Jews was in Eastern Europe.

Moving the victims out of the country where there might be
resistance let people fool themselves that it really was
"resettlement".

The building of chambers elsewhere was not as efficient, given the
number of victims and their location.

The use of guns required hardened troops who would quickly be
useless for anything else - as had already happened.

Your one bullet per victim calculation was nonsense. They were using
several, due to the use of machine guns. Cost was significantly
higher than you've calculated.

The extermination camps were adjoining slave labour camps. Kill off
the unfit immediately and work the rest to death - a simple formula.

The amount of graft that could be involved was far higher with the
use of special constructs and laundering methods than simple
shooting or localised gas chambers.

Finally, there doesn't have to be a logical reason. The Nazi
mentality was monomaniacal and saw efficiencies that no one else
would consider an efficiency.

With the amount of physical evidence that you have already admitted
to knowing exists, the use of such "IT MAKES NO SENSE!! IT MAKES NO
SENSE!!" because it doesn't match your view of reality is childish.

GROW UP, MATT!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Have you had a CAT scan lately? You may need it!!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:10 PDT 1996
Article: 58240 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 96 13:50:17
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <9bf_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Saturday August 17 1996 03:22][*][0]*>


 >> It does? It says something will actually disappear? Nothing
 >> left? You have his manual? Oh, you're lying again. I see.

 MG>   It is called an analogy, child.  Gas someone and every bit of
 MG> physical evidence disappears.

Then the bullet must have megabytes of capacity, Matt.

The physical evidence of gassing exists.

Tell ou what. Why don't I send you some small packets - not more
than 20 Megabytes - containing the evidence every week for ayear or
so.

To assure that you don't just killfile it, I'll set up the bot to
generate a random number and query you as to the contents of a
specific page. All you'll need to do to prove that you got it is to
post that one section. If you don't answer, it'll double the volume.

Ummm! Let's make sure that you really do keep it honest. The
question can be about any page in the previous 5 packets. That way
you won't need more than 100 Mbytes for the data.

 >>> As for the will to so something, the descriptions of what was
 >>> supposed to have happened does not match any but the grossest
 >>> descriptions.

 >> Of course they do.

 MG>   Not that anyone here has been able to demonstrate.  The best
 MG> you folks can do is what you just did.  Claim that they do or
 MG> that it has been demonstrated but never being able to produce
 MG> the evidence of if.

See above.

Make this claim enough times and I turn on the bot.

You were already presented with enough physical evidence.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:11 PDT 1996
Article: 58241 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 96 11:43:55
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <9af_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Friday August 16 1996 04:22][*][0]*>

 >> IOW - you refuse to accept the volume of material.

 >> Tell you what - why don't I post a sample here and the rest to
 >> you?

 MG>   You post it ALL here so that EVERYONE can read it and comment
 MG> on it.

Why repeat what was already posted?

 >> You keep avoiding the material.

 >> You admit that it is a huge amount.

 MG>   I admit only that you would mail me a huge amount of crap that
 MG> you have never read and would not satisfy the requirements of
 MG> physical evidence.

No - I would post only the proper physical evidence in context.

You are dodging the issue.

 MG>   BTW:  I was sent the best 1.44 Meg of it two years ago.

But you said that there is no physical evidence.

There's much, much more than 1.44 Meg of it, Matt.

You want to avoid it by using the fact that I won't disrupt this
newsgroup by dumping it here.

You claim that it doesn't exist.

You claim that there's only 1.44 Megs worth.

You claim that I'll send you a mailbomb's worth.

Surely 100 Megabytes isn't a mailbomb, Matt. Only a pipsqueak
nonentity would even consider anything less than 50 Megabytes as a
mailbomb.

 >> Tell you what - why don't I accept your claim as a challenge to
 >> Email the data to you?

 MG>   Why do you refuse to post it in public?

Already mentioned. There is no need to repost what's already been
posted and the volume is unfair to the newsgroup. They don't want
it. The intelligent ones have seen it. The revisionists simply close
their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and shout "IS NOT!! IS
NOT!!".

 >> It'll have to wait until next week, however. The T1 is OK, but
 >> the T2 that was the WAN link is choking at 400K bytes/second,
 >> so the T1 is being used as a backup. We'll retune this weekend.

 MG>   A T2 is choking on what a T1 can't notice?

You seem to be having problems with comprehension, Matt.

400K bytes per second is 3.2 Megabits per second. A T2 is good for 6
Megabits per second, but not if the setup is poorly tuned.

A T1 ia a quarter of a T2. If it's correctly tuned (it is), it
delivers 1.5 Megabits per second. If we need 4 Megabits per second
to handle the load and a second T2 isn't due for a couple of months
anyway, we use the T1 as backup to kick the capacity to 4.7 Megabits
per second until we can fix the problem.

In the meantime I use my personal ISDN, which is only 128Kbps to do
gating.

 >> So - how big should I make each packet?

 MG>   They all go to this public conference.  I want none of it
 MG> email.  I want it all public.  And I want you to make the effort
 MG> and you to violate the compilation copyright.

Ahhhh! Then, even though your knowledge of copyright law is as poor
as your knowledge of everything else, you think that I would be
violating copyright laws?

Bad news on 2 fronts, Matt.

1. It doesn't violate copyright laws. The fact that you want me to
   violate the law and happen to be urging me to commit a felony (in
   Canada it's a felony - did you know that?) is a criminal offense,
   even if what you urge me to do is not a crime after all.

   Same thing applies in the US, Matt. Urging someone to commit a
   crime is itself a crime - even if copyright violations aren't as
   severe a crime in the US.

2. I will deliver 1 Megabyte to you for every 10K to the newsgroup.
   That way they get a sample and you get it all.

I think that 1 Megabyte to the Newsgroup won't be all that severe,
don't you?

Why are you trying to weasel out of it, Matt?

Accusing me of trickery is grounds for my sending you the material
as evidence that it does exist and is legitimate.

Mermelstein already set the necessary precedents, Matt.

Why are you refusing to look at what you admitted exists, Matt.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:12 PDT 1996
Article: 58247 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:45:40 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <32187004.29F6@gryn.org>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4thvv0$8ln@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>  <4tsci6$s7@hades.rz.uni-sb.de>  <8d7cc$924e.3e0@news.comet.net> <3213b0af.2402721@news.inetport.com> <4v1avm$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v2q5p$k46@news1.io.org> <4v3rvp$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.german:83250 alt.revisionism:58247

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
> >You already admitted to the existence of that evidence.
> 
> >Please try to be consistent while you're being wrong.
> 
>         You must have me confused with someone else.  I have said no such
> thing.


Matt, your Waldheim's gets worse by the day.

You've asked for physical evidence as to the use of gassing.

I offered to Email it to you.

You stated that it would be a mail bomb in size.

That is an admission that you know it exists.

Then you suggested that I post it to the NG - which I've refused because
it was alredy posted or referenced in quantity.

You still refuse to accept the evidence.

But you still claim that it doesn't exist.

Please make up your mind!


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:13 PDT 1996
Article: 58281 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jews Run Everything
Date: 17 Aug 96 13:10:30
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <9bb_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kurtstele@aol.com

<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Jews Run Everything] [Friday August 16 1996 18:06][*][0]*>

 KS> Exhibit IV (jewish supremacist):

 KS> On 8/15/96 at 4:22 a.m. Ira  wrote:

 >> Hiltler was an ass who got his ass kicked. We Jews run
 >> everything,because you goyim are to fucking stupid too. God

The fact that you are willing to use blatant forgeries as evidence
is proof, in and of itself, that you are a mental degenerate.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:13 PDT 1996
Article: 58282 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jews Run Everything
Date: 17 Aug 96 13:46:03
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <9bd_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu

<*[*] [*] [william c anderson] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Jews Run Everything] [Friday August 16 1996 22:28][*][0]*>

 wa> There is indeed an "Israel.com".  Perhaps Rich can tell us
 wa> whether this message actually came from there.

 wa> One thing's for sure--whether Ira is for real or not, he's
 wa> definitely a nazi-boy...

Nope! It definitely did *NOT* come from there.

++GMAIL 1.3++ A day for firm decisions!!!!!  Or is it?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 16:03:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58283 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 96 13:48:03
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <9be_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Saturday August 17 1996 03:19][*][0]*>


 >> You already admitted to the existence of that evidence.

 >> Please try to be consistent while you're being wrong.

 MG>   You must have me confused with someone else.  I have said no
 MG> such thing.

Tell you what!  I'll repost the message where you said just that and
I'll send you the evidence that you admit to by claiming that it's a
malibomb's worth.

Just ask for it, Matt.

You'll get it!

++GMAIL 1.3++ A bird in the hand is safer than one overhead.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 21:09:50 PDT 1996
Article: 58303 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Leuchter?  Again? WAS [Fwd: Nazi gas chambers]
Date: 17 Aug 96 18:09:16
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <9c0_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Leuchter?  Again? WAS [Fwd: Nazi gas chambers]] [Saturday August 17
1996 03:48][*][0]*>

 MG> acceptable.       You certainly know it is a conspiracy to
 MG> violate my copyright.  Even YFE knows that but he remains silent
 MG> on the matter.

Actually it's a conspiracy by the Munchkins to rob you of your ruby
slippers.

WAKE UP, MATT!

 MG>   Everything created is covered by copyright from the moment of
 MG> being set into fixed form whether or not copyright is asserted
 MG> at the time. You know that.


Fair use does cover the situation, since Ken simply takes an excerpt
of the contents of alt.revisionism and anot all of it. Fair use
covers *SUFFICIENT QUANTITIES* for the purpose required - which may
be anything up to and including 100%, as long as it is not the bulk
of the material being presented, as in the Nizkor archives.

NOTHING published in USENET and not previously covered by copyright
is covered under the copyright laws anyway, so you lose under all
conditions.

Now - since you sent the stuff to Ken McVay, you can only sue Ken in
Canada for the real value of the messages. After the judge stops
laughing he'll order *YOU* to pay Ken! Then he'll order you to pay
court costs.

There's an easy way to find out - do it.

Or stop being a silly ass and shut up about it.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 21:09:51 PDT 1996
Article: 58304 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 17 Aug 96 18:24:19
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <9c1_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)] [Saturday
August 17 1996 06:11][*][0]*>


 MG>   And, as noted, you are incapable of basic arithmetic and have
 MG> never posted any.  And the only alternative is that you know the
 MG> math is against your gassing fantasies and refuse to post
 MG> because of that.

A presumption based on your fantasies, Matt.

The gassing is fact.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 21:09:52 PDT 1996
Article: 58305 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 96 12:04:55
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <9b7_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Friday August 16 1996 04:23][*][0]*>

 >> "In which case the abracadabra factor causes it to turn to salt
 >> and dissolve into purple peonies."

 >> Your answer is as logical as that sentence, no more.

 >> Try sticking to something that you know, Matt.

 MG>   It appears you really do not understand the matter at all.

A non-answer, Matt. Handwaving and question-begging aren't enough.

You were presented with equations that show that the speed of the
river near the banks is more than adequate for even an old river.

You claim great knowledge here - yet you don't do anything but
recite abracadabra words and voodoo scientology and expect that to
be an adequate rebuttal!

Even a rabid Creation Scientist would do better!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Remember the story of the Billy Goats Gruff!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 21:09:53 PDT 1996
Article: 58306 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Date: 17 Aug 96 12:12:28
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <9b8_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)] [Friday August 16 1996
05:07][*][0]*>

 MG>   It has been 20 years since in ran across it and I have yet to
 MG> come across a worthwhile application of it.

Your memory fails you, Matt. I've already brought one such
application forward.

 MG>   I regard it as in the category of continuing research on how
 MG> many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  Good PhD material
 MG> but not of value.

Then stop using your computer immediately!

Your computer using caching algorithms - or connects to one that
does - that were developed using Bayesian statistical methods.

But you didn't know that. It seems that you know less every day.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 19 21:09:53 PDT 1996
Article: 58307 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor conspirators
Date: 17 Aug 96 12:16:25
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <9b9_9608182117@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Nizkor conspirators] [Friday August 16 1996 05:25][*][0]*>

 MG>   Without question one director and two volunteers have agree,
 MG> read conspired, to violate copyright protected material.

What planet did this occur on, Matt? Please post the relevant
passages of the Canadian copyright laws.

 MG>   Why are these people being protected because they are
 MG> holohuggers?

They are protected from illegal search and seizure, illegal arrest,
false accusations, ect - because they have broken no laws in Canada
or the US.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Remember the story of the Billy Goats Gruff!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org@ Tue Aug 20 07:25:20 PDT 1996
Article: 58325 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@     (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 20 Aug 1996 04:02:23 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4vbdcf$q5u@news1.io.org>
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Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vb6rk$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>	Post it publically in this newsgroup so everyone can read it.  

First I send it to you. Do you accept it or not?

>
>>>         BTW:  I was sent the best 1.44 Meg of it two years ago.
>>> 
>
>>IOW - No evidence, but you have 1.44 Meg of it?
>
>	No physical evidence presented as you know.  
>

IOW - you have seen physical evidence and simply play your "NYAH! NYAH!" games.

>>>         Why do you refuse to post it in public?
>>> 
>
>>Not before you get it in Email.
>
>	Then forget it.  Keep it to yourself and continue to claim you have
>it.  

Thank you!!

"Matt Giwer rejects an offer of physical evidence, yet continues to
REPEAT HIMSELF that there is no physical evidence - even though he
admits that there is."

>
>	Anyone who thinks a T2 can be "mistuned" has even worse problems.
>
As I thought. You are utterly ignorant of the technology involved.

Would you like me to send you the necessary material on the subject?
It's about 4000 pages and was prepped originally using GML.

Do you want it in GML format or in GML-output format for a 3800?



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 07:25:21 PDT 1996
Article: 58346 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Jews Want To Censor The Department Of Justice
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:39:05 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <32134499.3B09@gryn.org>
References:  <4ufnau$k2c@lendl.cc.emory.edu>  <4ugj3n$emn@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <161416Z12081996@anon.penet.fi>  <4uup8i$7is@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2712 alt.revisionism:58346 alt.conspiracy:79467 alt.politics.white-power:40066

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Their is a name for psychiatrists.  That name is quacks.  Not one
> recorded cured by psychotherapy.  Only by drugs and brain damage from
> electrical and chemical trauma.
> 
>         No cures and still battling the Scientologists at their own level.
> 
>         But of course if you wish to claim otherwise, post the evidence.

BINGO!!

But you don't know why, do you, Matt?


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 07:25:22 PDT 1996
Article: 58369 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Phoenicians and America
Date: 19 Aug 96 20:09:57
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 11
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Phoenicians and America] [Monday August 19 1996 05:53][*][0]*>


 MG>   Wadda cartoon rabbit.

Alec Grynspan.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 07:25:23 PDT 1996
Article: 58381 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:49:25 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <32187EF5.2610@gryn.org>
References: <4umtee$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4utn9s$eiq@grivel.une.edu.au>  <4v1ecf$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v26g4$9q3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4v3urr$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         All male Jews die off tomorrow and there is still a future full of
> Jews.  All female Jews die tomorrow and there are no more Jews in the
> world.
> 

Matt, must you keep posting on subjects of which you're entirely
ignorant?


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 14:52:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58502 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!insync!uuneo.neosoft.com!news.sesqui.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:12:37 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 111
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Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
> 
> AND the holohuggers would -allow- it to be a revisionist newsgroup instead
> of trying to continually preempt the forum with their holohokum

But it *IS* about revisionism!

The holohokum is what a revisionist wishes were true!

So there is an NG about revisionism - just as there is one about
alcoholism, drug addiction and pedophilia.

> 
> >Just imagine what would happen if the "Institute for Historical Review"
> >were able to publish books.
> 
> AND it was allowed in the mainstream press the same as holohugger books
> are.  Witness the cancellation of David Irving's recent book about
> Goebbels because of jewish money-power

Prove it.

The reason that the mainstream press isn't interested in the IHR
publications is because they insist on taking it to the non-fiction
departments!

> 
> >Just imagine what would happen if "Revisionists" like David Cole were to
> >present their case on national TV shows like "48 Hours."
> 
> AND also -wouldn't- be followed by a holohugging media flunkie instructing
> the impressionable viewer as to the politically correct way to "interpret"
> what he just saw

David Cole instructed the impressionable viewer?!?!

> 
> >Just imagine what would happen if leading "Revisionists" like Mark Weber
> >were interviewed on MSNBC.
> 
> AND revisionists were given media airtime -comparable- to that given to
> the holohuggers, who propagandize in movies, TV, and academia -- instead
> of just allowing the revisionists to be heard from once in a blue moon, if
> even then

It's the problem with revisionist complexions. You can't stand direct
light for long and people just don't want to exert themselves picking up
the rocks that you live under.

The facts of the Holocaust are presented. The revisionists aren't shown
much for the same reason that paranoid schizophrenics aren't - so as not
to offend the human beings in the audience.

> >Just imagine what would happen if "Revisioinists" like CODOH, the IHR,
> >Zuendel, and the "European Student Union" had web sites accessible to the
> >entire world.
> 
> AND they weren't continually kicked off the internet by jewish holohugger
> pressure

Really?

How about the gag orders obtained by the revisionist scumbag Doug
Christie against a TV show that was based on facts?

> 
> >Just imagine what would happen if Ingrid's "Zundelgrams" were posted
> >daily, unedited, to public forums.
> 
> AND revisionism wasn't deliberately associated by the media with hate
> 

It isn't. The association is generated by the perverts themselves.

> >Just imagine what would happen if people like Nizkor, www.nizkor.org,
> >archived the postings of "Revisionists" so that anyone could read them,
> >anonymously, at their leisure.
> 
> AND revisionism wasn't deliberately associated by the media with hate

It isn't. The association is generated by the perverts themselves.

> 
> >Surely the truth would come out, right?
> 
> Right.
> 
> -If- the above continues the truth eventually -will- be known which is why
> the Simon Weisenthal Center and other jewish holohuggers are attempting to
> censor and control the internet, along with working to pass more
> "thoughtcrime" laws to shield the holohuggers' Blessed Article of Faith
> from further scrutiny.

The fact that they want the lies to stop is a mistake on their part -
so?


> >Looks to me like it has, in spades.
> 
> Exactly:  so why are you still a holohugger?
> 


What holohugger?

The holohuggers are those that need a scapegoat - something to decry -
the way the Creationists need Evolution - because distorting facts is
easier than doing something constructive.

You are the holohugger.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 14:53:00 PDT 1996
Article: 58511 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmerhc5e.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: refusal to most megabytes of physical evidence
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:56:26 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <321A186A.694A@gryn.org>
References: <4vbfj0$gtr@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Here we have a holohugger refusing to post what he claims are
> megabytes of physical evidence.

Why do you refuse to accept what I have promised to be nothing but
physical evidence?

Why do you refuse it, claiming that it is a mailbomb?

Why do you call a mere hundred megabytes a mailbomb?

> 
>         Why does he refuse to publically post it?  Why do people at his org
> send mail bombs with only kmcvay's DOD connection in common?

Most of it has already been posted publicly.

Why are you refusing to accept what you claim doesn't exist?

No mailbombs were sent from ONE OF my domains.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 17:24:07 PDT 1996
Article: 58525 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: African-Americans, tired of all that White supremacy?
Date: 19 Aug 96 20:06:10
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: African-Americans, tired of all that White supremacy?] [Monday August
19 1996 06:32][*][0]*>

 MG>   Like our favorite holohogger, Marduk, who is a coward and ho
 MG> holohugger of the first order.

Interesting - your characterizations, that is.

They reveal a lot about you.

 MG>   He is an animal like all holohuggers.

Yes - Homo Sapiens.

Do you dissociate yourself from him?

 MG>   But then all holohuggers are animals.

Yes - Homo Sapiens.

Do you dissociate yourself from reality - er - us?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Remember the story of the Billy Goats Gruff!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 17:24:08 PDT 1996
Article: 58526 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 19 Aug 96 20:13:21
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <5f0_9608192154@tor250.org>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Monday August 19 1996 06:30][*][0]*>

 >> Just ask for it, Matt.

 >> You'll get it!

 MG>   Until you are willing to act like a professional here, I will
 MG> only respond to you when it suits my puposes not your.

IOW - you admit that you can't answer except by begging the
question.

You've already admitted to the existence of large quantities of
physical evidence, Matt.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 17:24:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58527 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another Demonstration Of Giwer's Senility (Re: revisio
Date: 19 Aug 96 21:35:17
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <5f1_9608192154@tor250.org>
References: <4umtee$94q@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4v1ecf$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v26g4$9q3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4v3urr$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4v986h$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Another Demonstration Of Giwer's Senility (Re: revisio] [Monday August
19 1996 04:18][*][0]*>

 >> "gassing cellar" in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as
 >> they were really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men
 >> who authored the documents.


 MG>   What a fantastic reference.  You found someone claiming that I
 MG> used the term.  That certainly proves he is a liar.

 MG>   Or do you want to post another fabrication?

No fabrication, Matt.

What Say I go on to DejaNews and pull down the original, where you
called the fellow Jewboy, and (only if I find it, mind) post several
hundred copies to your mailbox.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap - many times over.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 18:52:03 PDT 1996
Article: 58552 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:21:42 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <3219D806.4CAA@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> =

>         You are clearly supporting conspiracy to violate copyrights.  Des=
pite
> what the fools here are talking about, "fair use" means short quotes
> used within other contexts.
> =

>         Read the following and see if limited scope and eduction can be
> connected with what is done on Nizkor.
> =

>         Neither is Nizkor a body of work that uses these infringing mater=
ials
> as part of a larger picture.
> =

>         Nor is it part of an educational plan.  Nor is it research.  Nizk=
or is
> simply an accumulation (collection is too high a term for it) of other
> people's material, all of which are protected by copyright, including
> all halftone images.  It is quite clearly a conspiracy to steal on the
> hightest and most open order.
> =

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =

> U.S. COPYRIGHT ACT, AS AMENDED
> ...CHAPTER 1. SUBJECT MATTER AND SCOPE OF COPYRIGHT
> =

> =A7 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: fair use
> =

> Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A [17 USCS =A7=A7
> 106, 106A] the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by
> reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified
> by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news
> reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
> scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In
> determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a
> fair use the factors to be considered shall include--
> =

>     (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such
> use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational
> purposes;
>     (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
>     (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation
> to the copyrighted  work as a whole; and
>     (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value
> of the copyrighted work.
> =

> The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of
> fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above
> factors.
> =

> [Amended 10/24/92 by Pub. L. No. 102-492 which added this last
> sentence to =A7 107.]
> =

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =

>         Is there something you have a problem with?

Matt, to put it mildly - your ability to misinterpret the law is
remarkable.

All somebody has to do is come forward and present a single school paper
on the Holocaust that used material from the Nizkor archives and that's
all she wrote for your BS.

Also note "the nature of the copyrighted work".

Also "the amount and substantiality" - in this case of USENET's total
output or at the very least, alt.revisionism and every other newsgroup
that you posted into.

Also the potential market value.

Finally - you really are a dimwit at times.

NIZKOR IS LOCATED IN CANADA!

You, by posting into this NG, sent the stuff here.

NIZKOR, by the use of web pages and FTP sites, only allows retrieval of
the material. IOW - people "carry" it back.

So - Canadian copyright laws prevail.

But - there is also the purpose of archival storage, which allows its
use in research papers, ect.

Of course, while you're losing the case, Nizkor will have lots more
publicity, your inbound mailbox will be flooded by every flamer who will
scream freedom of speech, ect.

With the publicity that Nizkor gets, people will be flocking to look at
who this Matt Giwer is and more folks will be reading it off every
location that has copies of your postings than ever.

Gonna try to muzzle every place ready to mirror them, too? Going after
DejaNews, AltaVista - every ISP that has a large message base?

How about every archivist that KEEPS THE COPIES THAT YOU SENT?

And - lest we forget - the CANADIAN judge will definitely assign court
costs to you.


From alec@gryn.org@ Tue Aug 20 19:30:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58573 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!demos!news1.relcom.ru!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!online.no!nntp-oslo.UNINETT.no!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@     (Big Kahuna)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kinky Alec.  Make that 256 times.
Followup-To: alt.test,alt.flame
Date: 20 Aug 1996 03:51:40 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <4vbcoc$q5u@news1.io.org>
References: <4vb63o$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vb63o$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>	Should I post them all here as evidence?  I would not wish anyone to
>doubt me.  Of course only 25 or so at a time so the bot of the self
>righteous guardian of usenet will not be excited of course.  


And you'll get 500 back the first time, 1000 the second time...

Or maybe you'll just have a cancelbot on your tail.

             GROW UP, MATT!!!

>
>	What got you so pissed Alec?  Can't deal with the truth being posted?
>

What truth? That was a frequency-dependent bot!

Post something more than 5 times in one week and you get it dumped into
your mailbox.

You don't post the truth, Matt.

>
>	Why are you so afraid of it?  

Afraid of what?

Your boring repetition of something that has no relevance to anything?

Grow up, Matt!
>
>	But perhaps it is not you.  Rather some idiot whom you have given
>access.  

No, it's a simple little bot.
>
>	Are you willing to admit either that it is you are to give the name of
>the person who sent all of thes?  Or do you approve?  
>

I set it up, Matt.

So - are you going to tell my postmaster?

Or haven't you noticed the common component in all of the repeats?



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 22:43:11 PDT 1996
Article: 58598 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:43:02 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <3219DD06.CC1@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Because they are holohuggers of course.  They have a belief and
> therefore everything must support the belief.

Ahhh! Of course!! You claim that others are as irrational as you are.

You're the one with the problems of "belief", Matt. 

Facts are presented and your responses are nothing but "IS NOT! IS
NOT!".

> 
>         Consider for the moment that I have driven off of this discussion any
> and all consideration that there was any Promised Land or any Moses
> for that matter.  It was quite common before I attacked the fantasy.

What does that have to do with revisionism? You drove off nothing but
your own contention that the bible was an accurate historical source -
therefore Moses was real.

IOW - you're playing "I won mommy! I kept hitting his fist with my face
until the blood stained his shirt and he had to go get it cleaned!"

> 
>         Of course now the holohuggers claim they were never here and in fact
> deny they ever made the ridiculous claim if you ask them.

So? Show us proof, Matt!

Quick pull it from DejaNews!

> 
>         What I will do will not be singlehanded again.  I need the help of
> others who know how stupid this gassing claim is.

IOW - others willing to ignore the massive volumes of physical evidence
presented here time and again?

Evidence that you admitted exists.

> 
>         The worst I have against me is that I took over this conference
> (posted by one, emailed by another showing colusion) as an accusation
> but the accusation is that I made is a forum for shooting down the
> absurdities and the impossibles the holohuggers believe implicitely.

And somebody posted as the Big Kahuna - AKA God - so?

A few people were confused by your initial noise, Matt, that's all. They
quickly learned that it was a bullroarer - empty noise.

> 
>         And now we find that McVay is only personally listed on the DOD
> server.

So? You have yet to connect that to anything. Where is your proof of
anything, Matt?

> 
>         So what is the point of all of this?  That we must support the
> destruction of the homes of the families of the suspects in Israeli
> occupied territorry?

What does that have to do with revisionism?

> 
>         They gassed me six times but I got better supports such barbaric
> treatement of Palestinian families and their homes?

Another non-sequitur. What does that have to do with revisionism.

> 
>         Fuck Israel and Jews and the horse they rode in on.
> 

What does that have to do with revisionism?

>         That is not civilized behavior in any manner in this universe and this
> century.  But anyone claiming that is is needs to defend it.

IOW - you support hanging them? That was what the Brits did.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 20 22:43:12 PDT 1996
Article: 58604 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song
Date: 20 Aug 96 20:29:44
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song]
[Tuesday August 20 1996 03:19][*][0]*>

 MG>   Here they spent their entire preparation in life to attack
 MG> something like the parody in The Blues Brothers and instead they
 MG> find people simply challenging the gassing story.

And all other aspects of reality.

Just give the word and you'll get it!

All of the physical evidence that you could never want!

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 07:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 58628 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:30:16 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Let me introduce another issue.
> 
>         Of what value is looking INTO a windowless room without lights?  What
> did anyone expected to see in the dark?
> 
>         Where did I get the idea of without lights?  Sorry but if people are
> in a state of biting off their fingers and each other's ears one does
> not expect lightbulbs to last very long.  Windows are never mentioned
> and never in any drawings.

You can go into any construction supply store and buy a fixture which
consists of a light-bulb socket, a glass cover, and a strong steel heavy
wire outer layer - something like the wire in a baseball catcher's mask.

Did I mention that I'm also a licenced builder in the province of Quebec
and have built homes and industrial sites in several states as well?
Make that past tense - but I remember that structure fondly. I used it
in other places, too.

The unit is used where an exposed bulb would be in danger of breakage
and has not changed in design in over 70 years. Real popular in Europe,
too!

NEXT!

> 
>         Windows are only mentioned in the Auschwitz FAQ on Nizkor in regard to
> the first experiment and then dirt is piled up against the glass.  I
> would like to know where to buy glass like that.  There is a hell of a
> market for it.  Not to mention that this was a detention cell and
> there was glass beyond that it did not break.
> 

Home Depot, Pro Hardware, Home Hardware...

Nothing special about it, Matt.

>         So there was no light inside and a 3 inch glass hole looking inward
> was of zero value if looking inward was its purpose.  Beyond that, the
> holohuggers are fighting the good fight and get an emotional charge
> from called "nazi" every chance they get no matter how stupid.

So it was easy to have light inside and the rational folks see the
deniers for the fruitcakes that they are.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 07:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 58635 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Einsatzgruppen/Einsatzkommandos
Date: 20 Aug 96 20:23:26
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 13
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: t08o@unb.ca

<*[*] [*] [Keith Morrison] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Einsatzgruppen/Einsatzkommandos] [Monday August 19 1996 20:00][*][0]*>

 KM> Well, if we have a cylinder of infinite density and rotate at a

That's easy! Just use the skulls of the revisionists!


++GMAIL 1.3++ A cat will blink when struck with a hammer.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 07:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 58636 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: revision v. holohugging
Date: 20 Aug 96 20:27:58
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 17
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: revision v. holohugging] [Tuesday August 20 1996 02:55][*][0]*>

 >> Matt, must you keep posting on subjects of which you're
 >> entirely ignorant?

 MG>   Yes.  Until I get more than doublethink as an explanation that
 MG> is.

Thank you for admitting that you post on subjects of which you are
entrely ignorant.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 09:27:16 PDT 1996
Article: 58704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 09:54:44 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <32187224.24C8@gryn.org>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <3209EB69.6D45@gryn.org> <4uf0ra$kno@sj <4ujfcl$8k1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4umktd$rtl@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <320F9FF9.432E@gryn.org> <4utui7$c8c@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <32134227.1669@gryn.org> <4v1b8o$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         I admit only that you would mail me a huge amount of crap that you
> have never read and would not satisfy the requirements of physical
> evidence.
> 

It satisfies the requirements of physical evidence and I have read it.

Claiming otherwise is an accusation of lying and a challenge to deliver
the goods.

How big should I make the individual messages, Matt? My system normally
makes packets of 1-2 Megabytes each.

>         BTW:  I was sent the best 1.44 Meg of it two years ago.
> 

IOW - No evidence, but you have 1.44 Meg of it?

> >Yet you clame that it does not exist.
> 
> >Tell you what - why don't I accept your claim as a challenge to Email
> >the data to you?
> 
>         Why do you refuse to post it in public?
> 

Not before you get it in Email.

> >It'll have to wait until next week, however. The T1 is OK, but the T2
> >that was the WAN link is choking at 400K bytes/second, so the T1 is
> >being used as a backup. We'll retune this weekend.
> 
>         A T2 is choking on what a T1 can't notice?

I didn't notice this show of ignorance on your part the first time.

A T1 has a bandwidth of 1.5 megabits/second or under 200Kbytes per
second.

A T2 has a bandwidth of 6 megabits per second or 750Kbytes per second.

A mistuned T2 that delivers less than expected when we have an expanded
need for 450-500 Kbytes per second means that the T1 had to take up the
slack.

Anyone with any knowhow would have been able to figure that one out.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 09:27:17 PDT 1996
Article: 58705 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:18:35 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <321877BB.4188@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         And every time you did that you watched EVERYONE around you die from
> the same.  That is very interesting.  When did this happen and how?

In the mid-70's. No gas mask and the room was not well ventilated.

And everyone around me did die. Since no one was around me that is a
true statement.

We have been over that bit of witnessing several times. You look for the
discrepancies only and ignore how it might have happened.

Did anyone query him as to details? Did anyone verify the times? Were
there any cross-checks?

No? Then what we have is an isolated situation where the memories of a
person who was not yet 11 years of age were brought forward decades
later and without context.

You demand that this witness's evidence be taken as the equivalent of
the cross-checked and cross-verified evidence of thousands of witnesses
closer to the time in question. 

One person states what is seemingly impossible if interpreted with
excess exactitude. That is sufficiently erroneous in your eyes to negate
all of the rest.

Yet - it could have happened anyway. Perhaps it wasn't gassing but was
part of a series of experiments to determine capacities of the system.

Perhaps it was any one of a dozen possibilities that come to mind and
the memories of a terrified child are scrambled and fused after 40+
years.

This is your idea of scientific method?!?

WHere the hell did you get your degree, Matt? Was it the "send in $150
and we send you a diploma" mill?7


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 11:38:44 PDT 1996
Article: 58726 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Of mice and men and women who scare the shit out of Janet Reno
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 16:02:30 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:

[Anything not the result of paranoid ramblings or simple REPETITION
deleted]


Hmmm! Not much left!

Matt, you are so far around the bend, you can see yourself coming!


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 16:05:31 PDT 1996
Article: 58784 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israelis Butcher Palestinians (for Alec G)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:07:12 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 83
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Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
> alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
> 
> >[Kurt Stele] wrote [regarding the jewish double standard]
> 
> >KS> "We [jews] denounce the Holo(hoax) but we continue to brutalize
> >KS> Palestinian men, women, and children."
> 
> >Prove it.
> 
> Just for you Alec G:
> 
> From reporter Robert Fisk and published in London's The Independent:
> 
>      QANA, SOUTHERN LEBANON -- It was a massacre. Not since Sabra and
>      Chatila had I seen the innocent slaughtered like this. The
> 

The wording at the start of the message gives away the deliberate
distortions that follow.

FWIW - Israel admitted that they weren't perfect shots.

Civilians die in a war - a war declared by the same people who suddenly
seem to forget that they sure were eager to do the same to the Jews when
the war started and continue to either fight or harbour those that do.

Why was there no mention of the rocket attacks on the Israelis that
triggered this series of counter-attacks?

Golly, Gee Whiz, Mr Bill - I dunno!

> Also, don't forget about this one Alec:
> 
> "The 'questioning' comprises making Palestinian stand for days at a time,
> shackling them in contorted or bent-over positions and confining them 

I can quote even more electrifying stuff! WOW! GOSH! HOW TERRIBLE!

Where's the rest of the article? 

As in who made this claim?

> 
> "Gee Dad, the jewish holohuggers suddenly don't look morally superior
> anymore; they're no better than the nazis."

"Gee Dad, Kurt Stele is male and so are most pedophiles. Suddenly he
doesn't look so morally superior!"

Cut the crap and answer the challenge!

>KS> "We [jews] denounce the Holo(hoax) but we continue to brutalize
>KS> Palestinian men, women, and children."

Prove it.

I am a Canadian and a Jew. My family suffered at the hands of the Nazis.
I am, myself, a holocaust survivor.

Now - are you accusing me of brutalizing Palestinians?

Are you accusing Israel of brutalizing *ANY* citizen of Israel - which
includes a large Palestinian minority? 

Prove either one!

I don't give a shit about your idiot fingerpointing at the fact that war
is hell. 

The Nazis murdered non-resisting innocent men, women and children in
their own country and in occupied territory in an explicitly planned
effort of extermination.

> 
> -My- the jewish holohuggers suddenly look discomfited.

There are no Jewish holohuggers here.

Holohugging is a disease that is the exclusive domain of those who must
deny it because their own self-worth is so low that all they have left
is paranoia and hatred.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 16:05:32 PDT 1996
Article: 58786 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Demonstration Of Giwer's Senility (Re: revisio
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:19:17 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 151
Message-ID: <321B1AE5.5087@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         It is sort of the like watching the "finger in the dike" story being
> enacted in real time.  A finger here, a finger there.  Run out of
> fingers and start with the toes.  Call in some friends.
> 

What friends, Matt? Would you like to tell us what friends are helping
you here?

>         Find a mastermind being helped by intelligence connections and they
> call in the ex(?)-mossad's org whoever may have done it.

Another standard ploy - accuse folks of conspiracies and don't worry
about the evidence. Just REPEAT yourself.

I told you what happens when you repeat yourself without reason, Matt.

I see that you continue to repeat yourself.
> 
>         It is quite hilarious to watch the gassing fantasy go down the tubes.

Yes, your fantasy that it didn't happen has gone down the tubes.

What you aren't noticing is that you are doing the exact opposite of
what you expected to do.

Thank you, Matt. You do make the perfect foil!

> 
> >You jews pontificate and condemn how repressive and dictatorial the nazis
> >supposedly were
> 
> >yet you harrass, prosecute and imprison people for "thoughtcrimes."

Odd - you never post a single incident. Just accusations!

If an accusation repeated is enough to make it true, then:

[Start Giwerism]

Matt Giwer is a convicted pedophile.

Matt Giwer is a convicted pedophile.

Matt Giwer is a convicted pedophile.

Matt Giwer is a convicted pedophile.

Matt Giwer is a convicted pedophile.

Matt Giwer is a convicted pedophile.

OK Matt! Give yourself up!

[End Giwerism]

> 
>         It is the Jewish thing to do.  Maybe Hitler really was Jewish.  The
> Palestinians can't tell the difference.  Nor can the victims at Qana
> to name the most recent.
> 

What has this idiocy got to do with revisionism?

BTW - according to this fellow that you know distantly, Matt Giwer, it
is normal for civilians to be hurt in a war.

Maybe you didn't notice, but the war begun in 1947 by the same Arabs or
their parents has never ended.

Why do you consider it legitimate for civilians to die in a Nazi gas
chamber but not in an actual battle?

> >In your chauvanism you claim to be morally superior to the rest of the
> >world
> 
> >yet you perpetrate the very crimes you project on to other peoples
> 
>         Yet that "superiority" dies with their every action.

Where did this moral superiority claim come from? Why from the people
who want to use it to prove it untrue!

[Giwerism Start]

Matt Giwer claims to have his own ISP with 6 T3s.

If that's true, then why does he use Netcom?

[Giwerism End]

> 
> >In other words, -you- people are the -real- nazis of contemporary fiction
> >because the nazi of legend was itself a creation of the jewish soul
> >and a projection of the jew himself.
> 
> >Hypocrite.  Holonazi.
> 
>         Actually you do not have to go that far.  The holocaust was quite
> biblical in its imagery.

But you believe that the bible is an accurate source of information,
Matt!

Please be consistent.

> >The longer and harder you continue to enforce this Lie the harder it will
> >die in the end.
> 
> >When the Lie finally falls the people will be looking for answers from
> >their deceivers...
> 
> >which is why jewish holohuggers are working at breakneck speed to outlaw
> >free speech on the internet and elsewhere, by calling it "hate."
> 
>         And in the interim to cause enough trouble for people that their ISPs
> drop them as not worth the effort.  And orgs like GRYN.ORG engage in
> threatening mail bombing when connections are exposed.

Prove it.

No mail bomb was ever threatened.

No connection was ever exposed. 

There aren't any connections that are not publicly known.

> 
> >Yet all your efforts will come to naught because Truth inevitably outs.
> 
> >But I realize you will continue to push your Lie even -harder- because you
> >cannot help yourselves
> 
> >and are doing merely what comes naturally.
> 
> >The Holohugger and the truth-seeker have irreconcilable differences.
> 
>         The holohugger has a higher calling than the truth.  It is called self
> interest.

But - the holohugger is a liar and a cheat!

He wants to change the facts to suit himself! He wants to make it a
didn't-happen! He wants to revise history, deny the holocaust, deny the
gassings, deny reality.

The real holohugger is the "revisionist", who needs the pretense of the
holocaust never happening or grossly overblown to bolster his own lack
of self-esteem and/or anti-semitism.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 21 18:48:33 PDT 1996
Article: 58823 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Run Everything
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:37:14 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 188
Message-ID: <321B2D2A.4092@gryn.org>
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Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
> alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) wrote:
> 
> ><*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
> ><+[Re: Jews Run Everything] [Friday August 16 1996 20:19][*][0]*>
> 
> > KS> Why should anyone think Mr. Ira  is "another
> > KS> nazi-boy pretending to be a jew" instead of an -actual- jew?
> 
> >Because the comments are against the very basis of Judaism.
> 
> yeah? well prove it then.
> 

>From  Rabbi Hillel - over 2000 years ago:

"What is hurtful to you, do not do to others. That is Judaism. All the
rest is commentary."

The above can be expanded on enormously, but that is the fundamental
item.

Epstien@Israel.com is bogus.

[Bogus statements not found in the Talmud deleted].

You are not quoting from the Talmud. That stuff is bogus.

>From  Racists'R'Us, Fnorg 666:123 

"Making up quotes from the Talmud is permissible. The nastier that you
make them, the better." 

> 
> From the Old Testament:
> 
> "For the nation and kingdom that refuses to serve you (Israel) shall
> perish, such nations shall be utterly ruined." (Isaiah 60:12).

So? Please give a scientific explanation of how the Red Sea was parted.

Quoting from a compilation of myths of the Hebrews is like using the
incests of the Norse gods to condemn the English, because the Normans
were descendants of the Norsemen and conquered England.

> 
> > KS> 1)  "We want to mix -your- race, but keep -ours- separate."
> 
> >Prove it.
> 
> Witness the jew-dominated media pushing for immigration and race-mixing
> (MTV, Hollywood, etc) and condemns racism at every turn
> 

So? What's your point? What Jew-dominated media?

They also condemn pedophilia and murder.

Same thing.

> at the same time the jew-dominated media rarely criticizes Israel's
> exclusive citizenship policies.
> 

What exclusive citizenship policies?

The only constraints on immigration to Israel are: No "Jews for Jesus"
since they're really proselytizing Christians, no criminals and no
terrorists.

> "Can you say h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y, kids?"

Yes - Kurt Stele.

> 
> > KS> 2)  "We want to racially integrate and diversify -your- nation
> > KS> and race, but keep -our- Israeli borders inviolable."
> 
> >Prove it.
> 
> The jew-dominated media and hollywood, and several other jews as well,
> continue to propagate racial mixing (MTV, movies, etc.) in America and
> Europe and denounce as "racist" those wishing to keep third world
> immigrants out of America and Europe.
> 
> Yet the jews simultaneously favor keeping Palestinians out of Israel and
> keeping the jewish state for jews.

17% of the Israeli parliament is "Palestinian".

Want to try again?

Prove that Palestinians are denied citizenship?

Prove, for that matter, that Jews dominate the media.

> 
> The jew-dominated media condemned investment in South Africa because they
> were racist, yet these same jew want -billions- of our tax dollars to
> continue to be sent each year to a nation with overtly -racist- policies:
> Israel.

Prove it.

> 
> "Gee Dad I don't remember us citizens ever voting on that one."

You didn't vote on spending billions on building up a presence in
Europe, either. Many more billions.

It was part of the defense policy, remember that one?

In the case of Israel, the cost/benefit was far superior to any other
alliance.

> 
> > KS> 3)   "We denounce the Holo(hoax) but we continue to brutalize
> > KS> Palestinian men, women, and children."
> 
> >Prove it.
> 

[Non-sequitur deleted.]

No proof, I see.

> 
> The jewish holohuggers suddenly don't look morally superior anymore,
> despite their frothing condemnations of supposed -nazi- atrocities.

No anger at real Nazi atrocities.

Still no proof.

> 
> > KS> Well, I for one think Mr. Ira  is a jew.
> > KS> He's just a little more honest than most of you
> 
> >If he is a Jew then you are a decent human being - IOW - he's a Nazi
> >fake.
> 

Still true. The posting was a phony from the same location as several
other such nonsense postings.

> Whether a fake or real "Mr. Ira" still reflects the chauvanism and
> supremacist beliefs openly avowed in jewish books of faith (see the above
> Alec G) and inherent in the jewish religion and culture.

Repetition with no backing. I'll tag my bot.

> 
> The jew's supremacism and chauvanism, which says there is one rule for the
> gentile (goy) and another for the jews, is also sorely apparent in the
> jews' continuing double standards:
> 
> 1)  "We want to mix -your- race, but keep -ours- separate."
> 
> 2)  "We want to racially integrate and diversify -your- nation and race,
> but keep -our- Israeli borders inviolable."
> 
> 3)  "We denounce the Holo(hoax) but we continue to brutalize Palestinian
> men, women, and children."

Repetiton. Still no backing. Botting.

> 
> > KS> One tends to get brave after battening off all those US
> > KS> subsidies to Israel, ya know
> 
> >There were no US subsidies to Israel.
> 
> $1260.00 per year, per Israeli, along with $10 billion dollars a year on
> average.
> 
> Israeli receive -one fourth- of all U.S. foreign aid.
> 
> That's a lot for a mere illegitimate little bandit-state that has no real
> strategic interest for the US -- except to please the jews, of course.

The DOD thinks otherwise. There was no subsidy - only funds supplied for
use in building up a strategic presence without deploying the much
cheaper nuclear weaponry.

> Another example of the jew tail wagging the U.S. dog.

A lot of words from you and no content.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 22 06:45:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58869 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israelis Butcher Palestinians (for Alec G)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:12:41 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <321B2769.4601@gryn.org>
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Charles wrote:
> 
> 
>   Perhaps YOU could JOIN Mr. Stele if you TRULY value consistency.
>   Since YOU so admirably and tirelessly defend the eyewitness accounts
> of the terrible Nazi atrocities against the Jews during World War II,
> then YOU -- so troubled by a Holocaust from a full half-century ago --
> should be among the FIRST to denounce the CONTEMPORARY Holocaust
> described by the eyewitness British reporter Fisk in the article posted
> by Mr. Stele.

Do you denounce the fact that Arab terrorists fire missiles at civilians
in Israel and then hide among the civilians in Lebanon - making the
collaborating Lebanese targets during the reprisals?

Do you denounce their tactic of deliberately using civilian vehicles,
including ambulances, so that these become legitimate targets?

Gosh, why is there such a resounding silence?

>   Instead, it sure seems to me as though you choose to enagage in
> fatuous rhetoric rather than hold YOURSELF to the same standards that
> you hold others (e.g. Stele) to.

What is the difference?

You don't see any?

It figures.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 22 15:42:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58947 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keren's fast one exposed
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:41:31 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 217
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Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
> It's Keren's favorite argument, his catch-all:
> 
> "If you disbelieve MY holohoax witnesses then I'll disbelieve YOUR Qana
> (or Dresden) eyewitnesses. Nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo
> doo."

You seem to have a problem with reality. Do you always talk like that
or is it a side effect of your meds?

> 
> Keren is trying to equate the holohoax eyewitnesses with the Qana
> eyetwitness by asserting that in both cases there exists -moneyed-
> interests which could pay off witnesses, so "therefore" there is no
> greater basis for disbelieving holohoax witnesses then there are for
> disbelieving -Qana- witnesses.
> 
> The problem with Keren's analysis is that it's wrong.

Prove it.

> 
> There -is- a far greater basis for disbelieving holohoax eyewitnessing
> then there is for disbelieving Qana (or Dresden) eyewitnesses, namely
> because of:
> 
> 1)  the lack of physical evidence for the holohoax

Available, posted here several times and available to anyone who asks
for it.

1. Is that your Email address?

2. Are you asking for it?


> 2)  the weak and at best ambiguous circumstantial evidence for the
> holohoax

Stronger than the obviously forced propaganda about Qana.

> 3)  the holohoax on its face is anomalous, demanding the nazis to do
>               atypical actions, and strange and awkward contortions

Eating, breathing, sleeping, playing "yellow shower" with Kurt...

Prove it.

> 4)  the holohoax's contradiction to existing -circumstantial- evidence

Yes - who can possibly believe that 1+1=2!!

Prove it.

> 5)  the holohoax contradiction to existing -physical- evidence.

Yes! A contradiction in your universe, alright!

The rest of us live in the real universe.

> 
> I would add 3 more, as I find them highly relevant:
> 
> 6)  the fact that the jews have reaped great political and financial gain,
> and privileges, along with further benefits of cultural unity and immunity
> from criticism from the holohoax and thus have a vested interest in
> keeping the truth concealed.

Prove it.

> 
> 7)  the jewish Holocaust lobby has and continues to harrass, imprison, and
> censor revisionists the world over, and it is visibly and obviously
> attempting to stifle free speech and debate about the alleged "Holocaust."
> It is currently working to censor the internet by attempting to equate
> revisionism (which it labels "hate") with "child pornography."

Prove it!

> 
> 8)  the jews, along with their substantial money-power, dominate the media

Prove it!

> and have both the power and control to censor open debate over traditional
> media channels and to cause the public at large to believe in the holohoax

That is why you don't exist and this message never made it here, right?

> and equate revisionism with hatred.  The jewish media has done precisely
> -that-.
> 

Prove it.

> In order to equate -Qana- witnesses with -holohugger- witnesses as Keren
> has abortively tried to do, Keren has to assert far more then the mere
> fact that there is a "moneyed-interest somewhere" that would benefit from
> false testimony.

At least ten times as strong as your argument - vis Saddham Hussein's
"baby milk factory".

> 
> Keren must somehow establish:
> 
> 1)  the lack of physical evidence for the Qana
> 

What evidence?

Using the Giwer/Stele method, we quickly come to the conclusion that
Qana is a hoax.

> good luck on that one Keren
> 
> 2)  there is weak and at best ambiguous circumstantial evidence for Qana
> 

What evidence?

Using the Giwer/Stele method, we quickly come to the conclusion that
Qana is a hoax.

> 
> 3)  that Qana on its face is anomalous, demanding the Israelis to do
>          atypical actions, and strange and awkward contortions

It is.

> 
> There is nothing new or atypical about Israeli mistreatment and murdering
> of Palestinian civilians

Prove it.

> 
> 4)  Qana's contradiction to existing -circumstantial- evidence
> 

I looked out my window and didn't see any of it happen. Therefore, by
the Giwer/Stele process - it didn't.
> 
> 5)  Qana's contradiction to existing -physical- evidence.
> 

By the Giwer/Stele process:

"An airplane carrying more than 50 pounds of explosives?!? Impossible to
the Aleph-93rd subflux of nasal secretions!"

> there is none
> 
> It would also be helpful if Keren established
> 
> 6)  the Arab lobby has and continues to harrass, imprison, and censor
> "Qana doubters," and is visibly and obviously attempting to stifle free
> speech and debate about the alleged Qana massacre.

Ten times as often as your contentions.

Proof here is by valid mathematical equations!
> 
> Nope
> 
> 7)  that the Arabs dominate the media and have both the power and control
> to censor open debate over traditional media and to cause the public at
> large to believe in the holohoax and equate revisionism with hatred, and
> that Arabs have done precisely -that-.

UPI is owned by the Arabs.

> 
> we already know who dominates the media and it ain't Arabs
> 

But the tooth fairy is too busy to interfere in its running!

> Yet the only basis Keren has presented for his disbelief of Qana's
> eyewitness is that there "Arab" money exists.

The only basis that you have for your disbelief that the Holocaust
happened is that there is "Jewish" money.
> 
> I realize to -undo- holohugger fallacies can be time-consuming
> 
> and is often like trying to unravel an 15-car collision.
> 

Which you try to do by saying "There aren't an cars here! NOT SO! NOT
SO!"

> To believe in the holohoax
> 
> and yet -disbelieve- in the Israeli massacre of Palestinians at Qana,
> 
> without any basis for doing so other than Arab money could have paid off
> Robert Fiske of the London Independent

I believe it! So?

> 
> and even when the Qana massacred was in fact mentioned (but not duly
> criticized) by the jewish media,

You have a literacy problem as well, I see!

> 
> is only too characteristic of a holohugger.
> 

Mirror, mirror, on the wall,

Who's the most irrational of all?

Matt and Kurt and their love child, of course!


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 22 15:42:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58952 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 13:39:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <321B49BE.3E71@gryn.org>
References: <4v3pkq$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4v4hqi$gte@news.enter.net> <840359087snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <321a735f.12068734@news.inetport.com>
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Mike Curtis wrote:
> 
> Alexander Baron  wrote:
> 
> >her way to buy milk. How about the 415 men kicked out into the desert in
> >December 1992 on suspicion of being sympathetic to Hamas? Okay, it wasn't
> >Kristallnacht, but it was a start.
> >
> 
> You're right. It wasn't. It also has nothing to do with the Holocaust.
> You know that, however.

There's something else that he "forgot" here.

Those 415 men were RELEASED FROM PRISON on neutral territory, where
their compatriots were waiting for them. 

It was part of a PEACE GESTURE on the part of Israel.

Amazing, isn't it? The depths to which people will sink to distort
information. That one was all over the TV networks.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 22 15:42:16 PDT 1996
Article: 58955 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Twits who can't read
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:48:17 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <321CB981.6895@gryn.org>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:58955 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:83818

Dave Harman wrote:
> 
> !
> ! Why do you refuse to accept what I have promised to be nothing but
> ! physical evidence?
> !
> ! Why do you refuse it, claiming that it is a mailbomb?
> !
> ! Why do you call a mere hundred megabytes a mailbomb?
> 

What you somehow forget is that I did not threaten to mailbomb anybody.
I offered to provide what Matt Giwer claims does not exist - the
documentation of the physical evidence surrounding the murder of the
Jews by the Nazis.

Matt claims that this would be tantamount to mailbombing him. I have yet
to do so.

He also admits that a large amount of physical evidence exists - and
then claims that it does not.

100 megabytes of data is hardly gigantic. I process quite a few
gigabytes thru my system daily.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 22 22:14:46 PDT 1996
Article: 59015 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematoria == gassing
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:08:32 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> McVay, Kenneth (KM1343)                kmcvay@NIZKOR.ALMANAC.BC.CA

1 botburst.

> it was false information.  The owner of gryn.org, Alec Grynspan,
> openly brags about having been in the Mossad, i.e. Israeli
> intelligence.

Nope!

Delusional as always, Matt.

> 
> McVay, Ken (KM214)

Second botburst.

> 
> McVay, Kenneth (KM1343)                kmcvay@NIZKOR.ALMANAC.BC.CA

Third botburst.

> 
> McVay, Ken (KM214)

4th botburst.

> 
>         That is it not private but public information from internic and milnet
> and information he deliberately made public.
> 
>         If you will get a little experience you will learn that all that is
> not required but was in fact voluntary.  The only thing required is a
> point of contact.  That could have either of the co-webmasters.

Why! It's it's - no! It can't be! He actually wasn't doing anything
covert at all!

> 
>         So why did the man make both of them public when he did not have to do
> so?

Because it wasn't important to anybody to try to hide it?

Nah! That makes sense! It doesn't belong in the Giwer view of "reality".

> 
>         Why do you not ask him why he made it all publically available to
> anyone with the brights to use whois?

Because it wasn't important to anybody to try to hide it?

Nah! That makes sense! It doesn't belong in the Giwer view of "reality".
> 
>         (Alec, remember you ridiculing me for saying I know how to "finger"
> internic?  Keep it is mind.)

I ridiculed you for thinking that this was something important.

It still isn't - and has nothing to do with revisionism.

> 
>         Beyond that, why not ask why this person with a cover as a gas pump
> jockey has an address on the DOD?  Do you not find it the least bit
> curious?  It was rather ridiculous from the beginning that that was
> all he was.
> 

When the story of Ken being a gas pump jockey was published, he was.

Who says that he still is?

What does that have to do with revisionism?

>         Now we find that he is a US citizen working in BC and is part of the
> DOD internet.  Would you not like to find out what this is all about?

Nope - not important.

There are a lot of Americans who prefer the Canadian lifestyle.

So?

> 
>         It is very simple for him to put down by saying, "I am a defense
> contractor, so what?"  And I would have to agree, so what?  Lots of
> people are and were.  I was a contractor and more, the govenrment
> itself.

1. Who says that he was? Got any proof?

2. You claim to have been a contractor? Ayup!

3. And you were the government itself?!?

> 
>         I have no problem admitting that.  So why do I get nightly mailbombs
> for pointing out the kmcvay listings?  Why do I get your claims of

No mailbombs.

Just a reminder that you do nothing but repeat nonsequiturs whenever you
lose an argument.

> 
>         And guess what?  As long as internic gets the check they never check
> the information.  You can make up a POB and a POC and they don't care
> as long as the check or credit card clears.  So even the minimal POC
> is a joke.  A fake POC account can be created on the server if that is
> too dicey.

They send info to those addresses, Matt. 

But you, the great Internet expert, knew that!

> 
>         But instead he gives information to the public domain in both cases
> and there are mail bombs from an ex-Mossad agent for reporting the
> milnet information.  Why?  Can you explain?

What ex-Mossad agent, Matt? Would you like to quote dates?

> 
>         I have become very curious.  Why are not you?

Because it has nothing to do with revisionism.

When will you answer your questions, Matt? 

Prove that Moses parted the Red Sea.

Prove that there were firebombings in Dresden.

Show us the equations for the boundary-effects and lifting forces in
river beds, Matt.

Why do you admit to the existence of vast amounts of physical evidence,
yet claim that there is none at the same time? 

Why were you really shown the door, Matt?


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 06:27:12 PDT 1996
Article: 59020 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:20:36 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 28
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Matt Giwer wrote:

> future, amateur.  But in case you chose to misunderstand that
> statement, stop the mailbombing from your non-org org.

No mailbombs have been sent, Matt.

You are delusional.

Since I don't charge for the access and since the .org domain is a
"catch-all" for any combination of services, it is the correct name.

You really know nothing about the Internet, do you Matt?

> 
>         Right mister expert on the internet.
> 

As with everything else, you set up a straw man and then triumphantly
claim victory when you've lost.

> 
> >So it was easy to have light inside and the rational folks see the
> >deniers for the fruitcakes that they are.
> 
>         Is not the proper phrase, Watta Maroon?

Yes, you qualify that way too.


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 06:27:13 PDT 1996
Article: 59063 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: here it is again, what is kmcvay?
Date: 21 Aug 96 23:38:53
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <02d_9608220038@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[here it is again, what is kmcvay?] [Wednesday August 21 1996 07:19][*][0]*>


 MG> Well, Matt Giwer continues to get mail bombs for posting Ken
 MG> McVay's DOD listed domain information.

No - just for repetitiousness.

 MG> McVay runs "Nizkor project."  It's an ADL "me-too" webpage.

No relationship visible, Matt.

Prove it.

 MG> have been (probably still is) Mossad, sends Giwer mail bombs.

Nope! You never could figure things out, could you, Matt?

 MG> So, we track down who McVay is and gryn.org (Alec Grynspan, with
 MG> 4 fidonet addresses, and his own domain name), who claims to

Actually, I have more than one Domain name. Look up tor250.org,
Matt.

As for multiple fidonet addresses, I have:

1:12/98 - gateway for Eastern Canada.

1:2424/11 - Fidonet Echo and Email feed for net 2424.
1:2424/13 - Usenet gateway for net 2424.
1:2424/224 - Neuro Mancer's BBS
1:259/10 - Neuro Mancer's BBS - Mississauga

Also - 1:2424/10224 - ISDN V120 dialup
Also - 1:2424/20224 - VMODEM dialup.

SOP in Fido, Matt. But you knew that.

 MG>   Excuse me, just to be scrupulous, I have stated the gryn.org
 MG> has sent me these mail bombs even though the org has only one
 MG> member.  And of course the ORG is a COM but beyond that ...

The last that I looked, this ORG had close to 30,000 members.

 MG>   BTW Alec, you would be amazed as to how many people this is
 MG> going to even without the distribution I add to it.

Every paranoid nutcase in North America, probably.

 MG>   Bomb again and make it even more obvious that this connection
 MG> has to be punished in a very kinky manner.

The connection is strictly one of your repeating your crap in an
attempt to build connections that don't exist.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 11:37:57 PDT 1996
Article: 59090 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toronto, Canada, Funds Terrorist Organizations
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:31:02 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 35
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Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
> 
> They "claimed" to convert.  Most of them never did and simply went
> underground, yet they professed Christianity to the authorities.
> Understandably this was done because their views, like the revisionists
> and the politically incorrect of today, were unpopular.  Yet noone
> denounces the jews as cowards or liars.

Nope!

Only a small fraction remained Jews after a generation. Even the
preemptive vow that neutralized forced conversion (the Kol Nidre), the
pressure was too great. The more devout ones left Spain.

The difference in these cases was that it was a matter of "convert or
die". 

Not that it did much good. The converts were no longer bound by the laws
that constrained them as Jews and were even more competitive than ever.
A generation later and the bizarre situation arose where the children of
converts - some of whom had become devout Christians - were more at risk
than Jews during the Spanish Inquisition.

Nobody is persecuted for being a revisionist.

Laughed at or pitied for being stupid, but not persecuted.

> 
> You holohuggers make it a sin to doubt the holocaust yet you denounce
> revisionists as cowards for using an anonymous name to protect themselves
> from persecution.

This persecution complex. When did it first strike? Have you sought
medical help yet?


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 11:37:57 PDT 1996
Article: 59092 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:32:20 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <321B1DF4.60F8@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         I am simply curious what it is all about.  After yesterday's mail
> bombing from gryn.org, owned by the only person here who talks about
> his Mossad connections, it has become a very interesting subject.
> 


No mailbomb was sent, matt. you're totally delusional.


>         Can you explain it?  What is the connection between kmcvay and the US
> DOD?  Why was he carried there?  Why did a org owned by a man with
> Mossad connections send the mail bomb regarding it?

Again - no mailbomb was sent.

No connections exist.

Repetition without basis triggers an interesting effect, Matt.

> 
>         You tell me.  What is going on here?  As Ross Perot said, I am all
> ears.
> 

Repetition and repeated non-sequiturs gets the same effect, Matt.

>         Are you not curious in the least?  I certainly am.  And if I post it
> often enough someone might come up with the answer.  Do you have an
> answer?


You've been given your answer.

No mailbomb was sent, Matt.

No mailbomb was threatened, Matt.

There are new medications for this problem. See your doctor immediately!

Surely a free clinic can get you to the charity ward, if nothing else!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 11:37:58 PDT 1996
Article: 59105 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:39:56 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <321DB4AC.3F6A@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         That appears to be the desirable "truth" in this context.  Yet in
> other contexts it is desirable to have gassing with CO already
> underweigh before it starts at A-B.  With so many truths around it is
> very difficult to get the story straight.
> 

Once again Matt admits to failure.

> ># Note further that IF referring to ZB THEN where did he get the
> ># idea that there were special hazards
> 
> >He's not. He's talking about the "gas wagons" some of which
> >were indeed sent to Riga.
> 
>         Since when does engine exhaust constitute a special hazard?

Ask GM. Ask Mercedes-Benz. Ask any manufacturer of engines.

For a test, park your car in a sealed garage, start your engine and rev
it for 20 minutes. Then wait another half hour.

Report your findings.
> 
> >So, as usual, you prove that you don't know anything about
> >nothing. Dates, technical details, nothing. But I've already
> >told you that.
> 
>         And to salvage this story, engine exhaust has to be a special hazard
> worthy of particular mention.
> 

Thank you for conceding to the dangers of engine exhausts.

After doing the above experiment, you will have a better idea of its
hazards.


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 11:37:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59115 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:44:44 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <321CAA9C.2446@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
 
>         I only control this newsgroup at the moment.  Get used to it.

You forgot the coffee alert!

Now - go put on a clean Depends.


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 11:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59133 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrtphba6.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: Twits who can't read
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:13:26 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <321DD8A6.7B9B@gryn.org>
References: <4vbfj0$gtr@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <321A186A.694A@gryn.org>  <321CB981.6895@gryn.org> 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:59133 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:84007 alt.usenet.kooks:28465

Reverend Tweek wrote:
> 
> Is Alec arguing with himself?

Nope. Slip of the wrist. I cut but pasted to the wrong place - which I
also cut.

Anybody following the thread and being able to read would have noted
that, "Marduk".


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 15:10:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:10:56 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <321DE620.3BD@gryn.org>
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4v64bm$snv@news.enter.net> <4v9cm6$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vbknq$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <321B1DF4.60F8@gryn.org> <4vjib1$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:32:20 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
> wrote:
> >>
> 
> >No mailbomb was sent, matt. you're totally delusional.
> 
>         Words are meaningless at this point.  You have established the record
> of your admission.
> 
What admission, Matt? I've never admitted to a mailbomb, because I've
never sent one.

You should see to your meds!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 15:10:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news5.digex.net!news2.digex.net!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:12:42 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <321CA31A.7220@gryn.org>
References: <4v80ea$lb6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4vfg9l$c1q@vixc.voyager.net> <4vgcls$ib2@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:59184 alt.politics.usa.republican:260898 alt.conspiracy:80636 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:360716 alt.politics.perot:53378 alt.politics.radical-left:112936 alt.politics.democrats.d:111702

Charles wrote:
> >
>   BTW, The Spotlight, which I'd describe as a conservative/populist
> weekly tabloid-format newspaper, contains lots of interesting
> information, such as the Spielberg-gets-$1-million-grant story, which
> hardly ever gets into the Establishment liberal media.

The Spotlight is a racist rag put out by the Carto organization and has
deliberately made distorted and false claims in the past. It continues
to do so.


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 15:10:55 PDT 1996
Article: 59185 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: 22 Aug 96 09:41:24
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <125_9608221018@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: t08o@unb.ca

<*[*] [*] [Keith Morrison] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest] [Wednesday August 21 1996
17:49][*][0]*>

 KM> I pass several everytime I go underground, and several simply
 KM> have the metal cage.  Rather simple devices, actually.  I think
 KM> even Matt could understand their operation.

I always liked the glass shield. A hot bulb can shatter, but the
shield provides 2-way protection.

 >> The gryn.org mailbomb was rather anemic last night.
 >> If you wish to continue your claim of expert status you should
 >> do better in the future, amateur.  But in case you chose to
 >> misunderstand that statement, stop the mailbombing from your
 >> non-org org.

 KM> Oooo, *good* comeback, Giwer.  Really rip into his response and
 KM> prove him wrong!

He can't get it thru his brain that the material is his own
repetitious nonsense sent back to him. He repeats less, he gets
less. 

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 17:14:15 PDT 1996
Article: 59189 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Matt Giwer admits to Physical Evidence existing
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:05:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <321E0EF6.5C8D@gryn.org>
References: <127_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vjvvg$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         You admitted it and you are now lying about it.
> 
>         You are lying.

No - I never admitted to it.

That is your delusion.


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 19:19:43 PDT 1996
Article: 59238 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: here it is again, what is kmcvay?
Date: 22 Aug 96 09:14:23
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <120_9608221018@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mstein@access5.digex.net

<*[*] [*] [Michael P. Stein] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: here it is again, what is kmcvay?] [Wednesday August 21 1996
14:55][*][0]*>


 MS>     Bad Alec.  Naughty Alec.  Bad wicked naughty Alec.

What I just *LOVED* was how he crowed that the messages were easily
traced to me, even though I "tried to hide it".

There, at the bottom of each message, is a sig that shows what
system it comes from:

                     Neuro Mancer's


Right here in this NG I *TELL* him - his use of repetitious
non-sequiturs would be returned to him, with interest.

Does he even bother to do a WHOIS on tor250.org? I'm the owner!

This takes brains?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 19:19:44 PDT 1996
Article: 59242 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: refusal to most megabytes of physical evidence
Date: 22 Aug 96 09:53:44
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <127_9608221018@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de

<*[*] [*] [Nele Abels] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: refusal to most megabytes of physical evidence] [Wednesday August 21
1996 12:57][*][0]*>

 >> Here we have a holohugger refusing to post what he claims are
 >> megabytes of physical evidence.

 NA> *Sigh* When? Where? Who? What?

I didn't refuse to give it to him. He refuses to accept it!

 >> Why does he refuse to publically post it?  Why do people at
 >> his org send mail bombs with only kmcvay's DOD connection in
 >> common?

 NA> What!?

No mailbombs sent.

Matt considers anything more than 2 emails a day a mailbomb.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 21:26:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 22 Aug 96 09:19:52
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <121_9608221018@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kurtstele@aol.com

<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?] [Wednesday August 21 1996
12:26][*][0]*>


 KS> That's like saying nobody -has- to watch TV while the jews own
 KS> nearly every media company in existence.  What other channels
 KS> can you turn to?

Any channel, schmuck. Repeating something doesn't make it true.

Provide proof that the Jews control the media.

 KS> It's called a monopoly.  In a monopoly situation, one -has- to
 KS> buy from the monopoly holder.  Jews have a media monopoly.  Ergo
 KS> one -has- to "buy" from jews

Prove it.

 KS> Jews have succeeded in taking over entire businesses through
 KS> exclusively jewish associations and ventures.  Look at the
 KS> jewish-dominated Hollywood.

Prove it.

 KS> It's not just "intra-familial."  Jews discriminate in favor of
 KS> other jews -in general-

Prove it.

++GMAIL 1.3++ It's *AMAZING* what you can find under a rock!!!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 21:26:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59249 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Date: 22 Aug 96 09:28:30
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <123_9608221018@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: dkeren@world.std.com

<*[*] [*] [Daniel Keren] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)] [Wednesday August 21 1996
15:39][*][0]*>

 DK> And then Giwer topped it off by claiming that Einstein
 DK> introduced the notion of different orders of infinity. It
 DK> just cracked me up. His work was not even related to
 DK> set theory. It was George Cantor who first defined and
 DK> studied these concepts, not Einstein.

Arrgggghhhh!!!

You had to go and tell him!

A good string-along and you blow it so fast!

That one was good for at least 2 weeks!

Now I'll have to be satisfied that Matt is still working on the 5
times table.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Matts should be seen and not heard.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 23 21:26:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59272 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: most amazing
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:03:36 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 170
Message-ID: <321E0E98.4489@gryn.org>
References: <4vjvtl$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         It is my opinion that a.r was created to discuss things like the
> insanity of 4 million gassed at A-B and that is successfully got the
> number reduced to at least the less insane number of 1 million.

Thank you for verifying that alt.revisionism was created for the purpose
of exposing revisionists for the disgusting holohuggers that they are.


We're laughing at you, Matt.

> 
>         However it appears that the holohuggers have this idea in their head
> that a.r was created solely for the purpose of juvenile ridicule of
> those who do not agree with the 4 million at A-B.

Yes that is true. People like Zundel, Stele, Giwer - all ridicule their
own straw man. A strange mental disease.


We're laughing at you, Matt.

> 
>         (I will taunt you a third time!)

Among the symptoms of the holohugger's revisionism is the need to repeat
things after they've lost an argument. They call it taunting.


We're laughing at you, Matt.

> 
>         But of course we always have the lying holohuggers who reallly believe
> that "taunting" will have the slightest effect.  They are truly fools
> and idiots.

Yes, but Giwerism is a rather bizarre mutation of the holohugger.
Fortunately it causes sterility and doesn't spread.


We're laughing at you, Matt.


> 
>         They continue with their inane name calling that is of gradeschool
> origin.
> 

That seems to be most prevalent among individuals suffering from
Giwerism, so it's not of common interest.


We're laughing at you, Matt.


>         It is declaratory that this is all that they have on their side.
> 

Declaratory?!?!

English is something that the revisionistic holohugger just refuses to
learn - along with any other human language.



We're laughing at you, Matt.


>         That is ridicule.  Attempted or real but ridicule is all the
> holohuggers have in favor of their favorite holocaust.
> 

The remarkable thing is that they always make worse fools of themselves,
by pretending to knowledge that they don't have, while trying to
ridicule anybody who is easily able to penetrate their nonsensical
denierism.


We're laughing at you, Matt.


>         They are truly animals of the lowest order.
> 

Now, now! We mustn't be so hard on these pathetic creatures. After all,
look at their poster boy, Matt Giwer. 

Paranoid, probably schizoid, given to to displays of self-hatred and an
inferiority complex a mile wide (though well deserved). The poor wretch
*HAS* to resort to threats, lies and insults! He goes into every battle
of wits totally unarmed!


We're laughing at you, Matt.

>         If no one has noticed the only thing that has distinguished me from
> the rest of the revisionists is that I have used the methods of the
> holohuggers.  I introduced ridicule of the holohuggers.  I invented
> "holohuggers."

Nonsense! Zundel's been at his trade for years! So has Raven, Carto,
Dahmer and many others!


We're laughing at you, Matt.

> 
>         I gave the holohuggers what they were doing back to them in spades.

Pardon? Can you site a URL that I can check? One where you responded to
facts with facts?


We're laughing at you, Matt.


> 
>         Gollly, cheeze whiz, Batman, what really happened.

Outraged at your blatantly inane methods, they quickly learned that you
had no teeth and simply laughed at you.

So?


We're laughing at you, Matt.


> 
>         I ridiculed your favorite holocaust in kind as you ferging corksuckers
> lured people here and then pretended that the riducule was the
> response.
> 

Yeesh! Multiple Personality Disorder! 

You talk about yourself so badly, Matt!

Check your meds!

So - when are you going to prove your contention that the bible is an
accurate document and Moses did part the Red Sea?

>         Sorry but you holohoggers have nothing going for you but juvenile
> ridicule.

Yes, that is all that the Giwers of the world have.


We're laughing at you, Matt.

> 
>         In other words, quite clearly, the only thing the holohuggers have on
> their side is ridicule and mail bombing and personal and famlity
> harsassment.

Whups! Definitely a sign that your meds are wrong! Delusions of
persecution, complete with hallucinations.


We're laughing at you, Matt.

> 
>         jclark

As I thought. Definitely a case of MPD!


We're laughing at you, Matt.


From alec@gryn.org@ Sat Aug 24 08:17:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59291 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mailbombingmeister
Date: 24 Aug 1996 03:44:07 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4vltq7$2r0@news1.io.org>
References: <4vlhfi$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vlhfi$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>	The noted mailbombers history.  
>
>========
>
>Grysnspan was the subject of a legislative hearing a few
>years ago for interstate net abuses. The full text was given to
>the International Telecommunications Union.
>

The interesting thing about that message is that it's totally bogus.

It came from that fruitcake Tzipporah Benavraham's machine and Metzger
doesn't even have an account at factory.com.

Tzioppy seems to have changed providers recently - interesting!

Of course, the fact that the company involved, Nortel, happens to have
had banner years lately and that the ITU has no say in anything
involving the Internet seems to escape Mr Giwer-the-Internet-Expert's grasp.

You're totally around the bend, Matt.



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:17:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59301 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: curiouser and curiouser
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:37:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <321E0866.51BC@gryn.org>
References: <4vg9a2$76s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <4viv9q$26u@news.enter.net> <4vjtc0$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On 23 Aug 1996 00:51:06 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
> 
> >>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> 
> >
> >>      Mailbombing is not considered polite.
> 
> >       Neither is spamming.  You doi it.
> 
> >       Neither are death threats.  You make them.
> 
> >       Neither is extortion.  You tried it.
> 
> >       Neither is sending e-mail after requested not to.  Your do it.
> 
> >       Neither are ethnic slurs.  You make them.
> 
> >       Neither is lying.  That is your modus operandi.
> 

>         Nor are lies like yours considered reasonable.

What lies, Matt?

> 
>         And as to your libel, I am awaiting the arrest after all this time.
> 

Making a statement of fact does not always indicate the swearing out of
a complaint.

>         I appears you do not have enough of a case for your claims to even
> make an arrest.
> 

Silly boy! You don't even understand procedure!

>         That makes you the libeler.

ROTFL!

Add ignorance of the law to your resume, Matt!

No wonder you're unemployed!

Even without a "section eight" style of "retirement", you'd still have
trouble due to your terminal ignorance!

> 
>         If you really were an attorney, you would know better than to post
> what you have posted.

Want to try again? Your ignorance betrays you, Matt.

> 
>         But you should know that an attorney can not post what you have posted
> without case law to support it.

And no coffee alert?!?!

Naughty boy!


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:17:55 PDT 1996
Article: 59309 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the Zyklon B graph - zb.jpg (1/1)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:34:04 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <321DB34C.44B9@gryn.org>
References: <4un0g6$a27@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4v409g$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4v93gc$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vf6kf$grt@scoop.eco.twg.com> <4vjnc3$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:

>         Yes you are an idiot.

And you wonder why you get all of the stuff in your mailbox?!?

So now you concede 2 more points.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:17:56 PDT 1996
Article: 59352 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Proof of Jewish Media Control
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:03:09 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <321DD63D.270A@gryn.org>
References: <4vimmf$e7c@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vjmj8$qkh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
 
> big deal.  It's called a monopoly, Yale.  Buying a few shares of stock
> isn't going to alter that

No - it isn't a monopoly.

Please try to use the appropriate definitions.

Disney, Time Warner and Viacom do not make a monopoly.

> 
> >>  II) The Big three Newspapers -- The New York Times, the Washington,
> and
> >>  the Wall Street Journal (all three of which are jewish-owned and run).
> 
> >       They are not the three largest newspapers in the U.S.
> 
> those three jewish-owned paper are -merely- the three most influential
> newspapers in the U.S.
> 

And what is their total readership as a percentage of the population?

Actually the most influential newspaper in the US is the Donald Duck
Independent. It sounds silly - but no more silly than your claim.

Now - please provide proof that this is a monopoly.

Provide proof as to *ANY* so-called monopolies held by Jews - other than
being Rabbis.

> Is that the best you guys can do?
> 
> Gosh, several holohuggers chattered "where's your proof!" as if to imply
> they were really interested in learning something.  I've given them the
> proof of jewish media control and so far noone's refuted it, not even with
> doctored evidence or coerced eyewitness testimony -- the two favorite
> resorts of holohuggers.

You have provided *NADA*, *NOTHING*, *ZILCH*.

Proof of actual monopolies, oh idiot.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:17:57 PDT 1996
Article: 59367 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Idiots fabricate and distort the Talmud, history and reality.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:18:27 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <321DD9D3.3DBB@gryn.org>
References: <4vaoeo$83u@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <321B2620.A85@gryn.org> <321d12f1.8242951@news.intnet.net>
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The Bok wrote:
> 

[Lies and distortions deleted]

> 
> NOW, WHO ARE THE HATERS? Just wondering?
> 

You are.

This is a given.


> As for the Holocaust, it sure is a shame that the Germans were such
> moral and decent people. It sure would have been a good thing to see 6
> million less Jews in the world. But, you know, your lies are coming
> home to roost. More people are learning about your lies. You can bet I
> am helping that. Why? Because I LOVE my own kind. Because I have PRIDE
> in my heritage. Because I want to HELP my people have SELF
> DETERMINATION. Because I want my CHILDREN have a FUTURE.

That's nice - but we're talking about humans.

All gentiles and Jews are human.

Which leaves you out.

> 
> Good, what an evil extremist I am. Caring about my own kind and
> celebrating my heritage and working to better my own people and help
> them to self determination, how dare I!!

Yes - and that's why I regret the banning of DDT.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:17:58 PDT 1996
Article: 59372 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Matt Giwer's Delusions and Paranoia
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:16:02 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <321DE752.1207@gryn.org>
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4v64bm$snv@news.enter.net> <4v9cm6$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vbknq$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <321B1DF4.60F8@gryn.org> <4vjib9$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         Shall I post all of them from

So? You keep talking about mailbombs. What mailbombs?

All that you've shown is a taunt.

Now - if you want a mailbomb to see what that's like, I'm sure that it
could be arranged.

But you're not worth the effort Matt.

You just think that you are.

Pity.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:17:58 PDT 1996
Article: 59376 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news.dra.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting) - gas.wb1 (1/1)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 15:13:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <321CB146.24E0@gryn.org>
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vagfr$q4e@access5.digex.net> <4vbslc$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vg7af$76s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> begin 644 gas.wb1
> M```"``$03``"````30`"````R0`"``$"!@`(```````)`#P`F0`!```"``$`
> M`0,``0``+P`!``$R`0$``#,!`0``SP`D``H```!!
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:44:44 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <321DFC1C.6736@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:

>         From now on, I pass over garbage that even fools like you should know
> is garbage.
> 
Each time that you play this game after losing an argument, the mirror
gets incremented.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:18:00 PDT 1996
Article: 59404 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Whine, whine, whine
Date: 23 Aug 96 19:50:17
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 266
Message-ID: <359_9608232011@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org

It seems that "Dave Harmon", aka skip, dip, shitbox, whatever,
decided to complain to UU.NET sent a complaint to the postmaster at
UUNET Canada.

Using whois to find out who my provider is on a message is a very
foolish thing to do - as with anybody else.

"whois" gives domain, contact and name-service info.

My upstream link is Internet Canada.

They have a very strong working arrangement with UUNET Canada.

They also have very strong working arrangements with others.

One of them is me.

I'm their news feed for several nets.

This same idiot decided to dump a list of newsgroups (a subset of my
list) into my system. This is what a revisionist thinks is a
mailbomb!

Naughty boy! 

Wadda Marroon!

===================================================

* Reroute from UU.NET

@INTL 1:2424/224 1:12/98
@MSGID: 1:12/98.1 41fa1893
@REPLYTO 1:12/98.1 UUCP
@REPLYADDR qut@netcom.com
@GID GIGO+ sn 245 at tor250 vsn 0.99.960714
Apparently-to: alec@GRYN.ORG
@X-Delivered-From: rodan.UU.NET
@X-Received-By: OS/2 SMTP Daemon v0.30/gigo
@Received: ryker Fri Aug 23 11:33:43 1996
@Received: from fritz.uu.net by rodan.UU.NET with SMTP 
@  (peer crosschecked as: fritz.UU.NET [153.39.247.136])
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@Received: by fritz.uu.net (leaf)
@  id QQbeag26801; Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:34:09 -0400
@Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:34:09 -0400
@Resent-Message-Id: 
@X-Bounced-Via: $Id: bounce-mail,v 1.2 1995/12/07 21:06:09 mfeit Exp $
@Resent-From: help@UU.NET (Customer Liaison)
@Resent-To: alec@GRYN.ORG, postmaster@uunet.ca
@Received: from rodan.UU.NET by odin.UU.NET with ESMTP 
@  (peer crosschecked as: rodan.UU.NET [153.39.130.10])
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@Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:35:40 -0700
From: qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman)
@Message-Id: <199608211835.LAA02808@netcom.netcom.com>
@To: postmaster@UU.NET
Subject: abuse by one of your customers


! Path:
netcom.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.ne
t!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!new
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erhc5e.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
! From: Alec Grynspan 
! Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
! Subject: Re: curiouser and curiouser
! Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:53:09 -0400
! Organization: Nervy Manglers
! Lines: 163
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! 
Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         All 256 are not identical save in one feature, they contain the
> result of a WHOIS query of milnet of kmcvay.

Because you have been answering challenges with nothing but SPAM.

You repeat a message that is meaningless.

You imply all sorts of dark and dire nonsense.

You obviously like repetition.

SO you got it sent to you.

> 
>         Lets see now, someone at gryn.org has threatened "This is just the
> start, Matt" when the only thing in common is the result of the whois
> query.  And not of the internic information but of the milnet
> information.
> 
>         Why is that, folks?  What is there about the milnet information
> that draws such a response from a person completely unconnected with Nizkor
> or kmcvay?  Or is there some sort of connection?

There is no connection, Matt.

Just annoyance.

> 
>         What is the interest of someone at gryn.org in sending mail bombs
> regarding the only common information of kmcvay's DOD connection?  Is
> there some sort of connection with the DOD for the both of them?

No - but your continued nonsense will have an interesting effect.

> 
>         And what is "nonsense" about what the DOD whois server contains?
> 

The nonsense is your using it as a response to challenges.


>         If it is erroneous then someone should get the information
> corrected.

Why not make the connection, Matt?

> 
>         Or has is already been "corrected" as in deleted and is no longer
> "true?"  And if deleted, why?
> 

You seem to have a truly significant reading problem.

>         That is it.  It appears the mail bomb was sent to notify me that
> the information had been deleted from nic.ddn.mil.  Now it can be
> claimed to be untrue even though I am not the only one to have looked it up
> and know it was there.  I am far from the only one who looked it up.
> 

You are making innuendoes and begging the question.

Again - what business is it of anybody's if somebody gets a contact
registration with .mil?

>         It is interesting to know that 1B Management Systems Limited still
> exists.  But why would gryn.org be the one to send the "message"?  It
> is all so "mafiosa-like."  Do I get a fish wrapped in newspaper next?
> No, that is an after the fact message.

You are making innuendoes and begging the question.

Again - what business is it of anybody's if somebody gets a contact
registration with .mil?
> 
>         And why is it so important to hide that information?  Why is it so
> important to hide the Nizkor connection to the US DOD via kmcvay?
> What is wrong with a person's employment?  The connection was likely
> meaningless until tonight's mail bomb.
> 

It is still meaningless and that was not a mail bomb.

If it had been a real mail bomb, you would still be digging your way
out.

>         Before the mailbomb it was just a matter of curiousity and would
> certainly have corrected the "gas station jockey" image of kmcvay.
> Now it appears to be something in need of hiding.  Before, idle
> speculation, after, intensive curiosity.  What a fool thing to have
> done.
> 

So? Make your accusations.

>         And if it is not true, why does kmcvay@oneb.wimsey.bc.CA still
> work? Try it quick before it is changed.  Just say "Hi!" and if you get
> a response or not, note that your mail is not rejected as
> undeliverable. Now why would a person be removed from the DOD whois list
> but still have an account with the defense contractor?

Why does Matt Giwer refuse to reveal the real reason that he can find no
work?

> 
>         What is the point of this bit of amateurishness?  An obvious
> suggestion is that the public record needs be hidden but it will take
> a while for all of the business contacts to get the new email address
> so that he can vanish completely from 1B Systems Management Limited.
> 

You seem to be good at interpreting things. Too bad it has nothing to do
with reality.

Your totally out to lunch, as always.


>         What is going on here? and why?

I ggot annoyed at your repetition, so I've set up a little utility that
will send you copies of each message where you repeat a message but
avoid the challenge.

> 
>         Lets put it all together.  I first hear of the information with the
> suggestion of a CIA connection.  Then someone at an org (gryn.org)
> owned by a person who has at least claimed past intelligence
> connections (Mossad) sends me a mail bomb as a clever way of telling
> me the entry has been deleted from the DOD list.
> 

You've truly lost it, Matt.

I implied no such thing.

But you knew that.

>         I presume this will incite gryn.org to send another mail bomb which
> will be duly reported here to keep the subject alive.  You would think
> people would be bright enough to know that if things are ignored they
> die out quickly and no one pays attention.  The way it is going, the
> objective appears to be to keep this issue alive as long as possible.
> 

And if the next repeat is ten times as big?

It's on auto, Matt.

>         After all, the mail bomb just gave it new life.

What mail bomb, Matt?

> 
>         This gets curiouser and curiouser.
> 
>         Is it any more interesting than this?

More of your nonsense.

As is obvious to anyone who bothers to look, the registration of contact
names in any NIC is an automatic function.

Please make the connection.


-+-
AVia 1:12/98.1 19960823.163954.UTC gigo 099.960714+
=============================================================================



--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:18:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59418 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:06:15 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <321E0F37.7518@gryn.org>
References: <11d_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
> murderer.

That is a libel - utterly, Matt.

Bon Voyage!


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:18:02 PDT 1996
Article: 59427 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:53:36 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <321DFE30.73B4@gryn.org>
References: <4v3urr$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <32187EF5.2610@gryn.org> <4vbnne$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4vek03$jtm@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4vhir1$r5a@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <4vjshq$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 22 Aug 96 18:09:00 GMT, abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele
> Abels) wrote:
> 
> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
> >>      I only control this newsgroup at the moment.  Get used to it.
> 
> >Oh, do you? Would you care to let go the levers of power for a moment and to
> >reply to "RE:Some other questions Giwer doesn't dare to answer."?
> 
>         Sorry about that but I have admissions by the major paritcipants that
> I do control this Newsgroup.  If you would first get them to agree
> that I do not and have them post to the contrary, then we can start
> over.

A misconception. They had never met such an ill-tempered, whiny spamming
brat before.

You control nothing.

Must a cancelbot be used to demonstrate this?


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 08:18:03 PDT 1996
Article: 59428 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:50:17 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <321DFD69.F0F@gryn.org>
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk>   <2AV4oOev1KOG065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4uvhqp$6kp@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <4vjort$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         It is about time that shield gets tested in court.
> 
Threats get an increment, too.

>         Libel is libel but without facts it is clearly libel.

No libel here, Matt.

If I said that you were a demented idiot, that isn't libel, either.

You don't know the law, you don't know science, electronics,
mathematics, communication, medicine...

What do you know, Matt?

> 
>         "in my opinion you are a Nazi" is one thing.  The clear statement of
> being a nazi is libel.

Still wrong, Matt.

> 
>         But this is the internet and it quite different as the fools who were
> LYING about the contacts by LEO agencies have demonstrated.
> 

No lies, Matt.

The fact that somebody investigates and discovers that behind the veiled
threats is an impotent fool does not mean that there was no
investigation.

Now - if you actually proved yourself otherwise, they might sit up and
take notice.

But I doubt that you'll succeeed.


From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 12:29:55 PDT 1996
Article: 59488 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: 22 Aug 96 09:31:03
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <124_9608221018@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kurtstele@aol.com

<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant] [Wednesday August 21 1996
16:07][*][0]*>

 KS> no Chuck, this newsgroup is about "revisionism." See?
 KS> "Ree-vish-un-izum." You've been spouting your hokum for so long
 KS> you've forgotten what newsgroup you're in!

So? Are you seeing a doctor about a cure - or will you continue to
carry that disease?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 24 14:44:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59551 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: before I forget
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:11:21 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <321E1069.37AB@gryn.org>
References: <4vk2ct$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Who has a problem with this and why?
> 
>         These are the facts.
> 
>         No one has denied them.
> 
>         What is the US DOD connection of Nizkor and the US DOD?

What is your connection with NAMBLA?

> 
>         Why does gryn.org permit major mailbombing as the only response to
> this?  Consider that the ownere of gryn.org had claimed to be a
> murderer of two Americans.

I have never admitted to any murders.

I have never murdered anybody.

> 
>         So we have a self admitted murderer who is mail bombing me.  Why is
> this happening?  The owner has admitted here that his has murdered
> Americans.  There is no question asked about that.  They are his own
> words.

They are not my words because I didn't say them. I never have.


From alec@gryn.org@ Sat Aug 24 20:04:33 PDT 1996
Article: 59633 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: 25 Aug 1996 01:20:22 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4vo9om$g7p@news1.io.org>
References: <11d_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4vltua$2r0@news1.io.org> <4vmgs6$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vmgs6$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>On 24 Aug 1996 03:46:18 GMT, alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
>wrote:
>
>>In , rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>>>In article <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>>>(Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>         Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
>>>> murderer.  
>>>
>>>
>>>Of course you realize that this is a defamatory statement.
>
>>Actually, it's a libelous statement.
>
>	You have publically and privately admitted killing people under the
>guise of welwork.  That is an admission to murder.  Where do you think
>you were when the rules were handed out?

You are delusional. I admitted no such thing!

>
>	You have clearly admitted to murder.  Or were you lying in the
>admission?  
>
You are definitely a fruitcake, Matt.

You've lost it completely and are living in your own fantasy world!



From alec@gryn.org@ Sat Aug 24 20:04:35 PDT 1996
Article: 59635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reviiewing the Alec Grynspan bidding
Date: 25 Aug 1996 01:27:55 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <4voa6r$g7p@news1.io.org>
References: <4vmhml$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vmhml$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>	Lets see.  
>
>	Many years ago he tells me he was involved in wetwork for the Mossad
>making it clear he was killing people.

Nope! Your imagination, Matt.

>
>	Tbis year I meet him on a.r and after a while find him saying the same
>thing in public on alt.revisionism.  Thus he has both privately and
>publically admitted to killing people on behalf of the Israeli
>intelligence agency.

Post the URL, Matt.

>
>	However he appears to have a problem with what he has said he has done
>being described as what it is, murder.  The Jewish inteligence
>organization does not change cold blooded murder to something clean in
>a Tom Clancy book.

I have no problem with what I've said, Matt.

You're delusional.

>
>	The man has claimed that he murdered under the direction of a Jewish
>intelligence organization and has done so openly and without
>qualification.  

Nope - never did.

You're delusional.

>
>	To be honest, I do not believe a word fo his claims as anyone having
>ever done so would never talkk about it.  But on the other hand, here
>we have a Mossad wannabe who plays at quiet bragging but is a clear
>fraud.

How could I be a fraud?

I never said that I murdered anybody and I've made it clear to anyone
who bothered to read what I wrote that I was never a working member of
the Mossad and *DEFINITELY* not a field operative.

>
>	And now he feigns it is libel to call him the murderer that he has
>identified himself to be.  

It is libel twice over. You have stated in this message that you did not
believe me, therefore the "I believed it" defense is out for you.

Libel, because I never said any of this.

You are delusional.

>
>	On the other hand he is no different from any other delusional
>holohugger.  
>	

You are utterly schizophrenic, Matt. Totally delusional.



From alec@gryn.org@ Sat Aug 24 20:04:36 PDT 1996
Article: 59642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: 25 Aug 1996 01:17:15 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <4vo9ir$g7p@news1.io.org>
References: <11d_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <321E0F37.7518@gryn.org> <4vm44m$1af@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vm44m$1af@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:06:15 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
>wrote:
>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>> 
>>>         Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
>>> murderer.
>
>>That is a libel - utterly, Matt.
>
>>Bon Voyage!
>
>	You told me you did wet work for the Mossad.  That is called murder.
>Or were you lying when you told me that and admitted it in this
>conference?  

Was that in the same conversation where you admitted to trading recipes
with Dahmer?

You really are delusional!

I've never worked for the Mossad at all!

>
>	Despite your 007 fantasies there is no license to kill.  Now if you
>have pardons from all the involved countries, which you have never
>mentioned, then you are simply a killer, or a liar about having
>killed.  

I commented on the results of an attempted ***>MUGGING<*** where the
muggers had guns and I didn't.

The last time I looked, the best that you could claim was that I, quite
legally, defended myself.

>
>	Or are you claiming "hitting puberty" was is the libel.  Or are you
>withdrawing your claim to having been the youngest person in the
>Mossad?  

Yes, as an honorary member because my dad was. I never claimed any more
than that.

>
>	Just what are you up to here?  
>

NADA! You are delusional!

You want to be some sort of secret agent and live the romance of James
Bond. The fact that you led yourself to believe that I was just such an
agent from that ultra-secret action organization called the Mossad is
your problem.

>	You told me on the phone that you had killed in wet work.  Wet work is
>murder in case no one ever told you.
>

No, you brought that up. I simply said that it wasn't quite what you
thought it was. True enough. Your interpretative skills are pathetic!

>	I mentioned it on this conference.  You agreed you had done it.  What
>other than murder were you admitting to?  

No - your interpretation has nothing to do with reality.

>
>	There is no "good cause" for killing other than self defense.  Wet
>work is not self defense.  It is murder.  

Don't tell a cop that.

But that is neither here nor there. Your interpretations were yours
alone.

I told you at the time that I broke no laws. I *STRESSED* that.

>
>	So why would you claim not to be a murderer?  
>

Because I was talking, at all times about 3 things:

1. Intelligence work. 99% of that is done at a desk, Matt. Forensic
   analysis of computer messages doesn't require dashing about ala James
   Bond!

   I'm disabled, Matt. I can walk one or 2 blocks without having to sit
   down - on a good day and with a cane.

2. Systems Doctor. That's me. Whether the system is a business system, a
   computer system or anything involving the flow of information or
   material and decision-making processes, I have a knack for finding
   the weakness and destroying the system - or fixing it.

   That means that I spend weeks learning enough about a discipline to
   be able to intelligently with its practitioners. So I learn the ins
   and outs of the law, chemical processes used in making plastics,
   narcotics (no, Matt, legal ones - ala a pharmaceutical company or 2),
   whatever it takes.

   I literally have to become an "instant expert" in the field. Not
   enough from the point of view of the real experts, but enough from
   the point of view of most people.

   Among the things that I've worked on are things for 2 governments.

3. Those dead muggers. That was while I was working for this rather
   large nation just south of Canada. I've already brought this forward.

   I was working on classified information, in a secured area. "Muggers"
   tried to rob me. In the melee they shot at me but ended up with one
   dead and the other in bad shape. The investigators cleared me
   immediately.

Now - are you saying that the work that I was doing *AT A DESK* and
*FOR THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT* was wet work?

You are delusional and a libeler.



From alec@gryn.org@ Sat Aug 24 21:13:43 PDT 1996
Article: 59643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mailbombingmeister
Date: 25 Aug 1996 01:54:37 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4vobot$g7p@news1.io.org>
References: <4vlhfi$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vltq7$2r0@news1.io.org> <4vmkom$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vmkom$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>On 24 Aug 1996 03:44:07 GMT, alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
>wrote:
>
>>You're totally around the bend, Matt.
>
>	And you are either a murderer for a Jewish intelligence agency as you
>told me and admitted in a.r or you are a liar.  

You are a definitely sick man.

I have never told you anything of the sort nor have I ever "admitted" it
in A.R.

BTW - are you now stating that you have kept this purported information
>from  the police for the last few years, Matt?



From alec@gryn.org@ Sat Aug 24 21:13:44 PDT 1996
Article: 59644 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a famous story
Date: 25 Aug 1996 01:49:43 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <4vobfn$g7p@news1.io.org>
References: <4vjsrj$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4vlrr3$1sg@news1.io.org> <4vmja8$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vmja8$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>On 24 Aug 1996 03:10:27 GMT, alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
>wrote:
>
>>In <4vjsrj$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>>	When is the famous org owner going to repeat the story of when I
>>>showed up in Temple wearing only a Talith?  
>>>
>
>>Your memory left you a long time ago, Matt.
>
>>I was very careful with my words.
>
>>On one occasion I specifically said that you *WOULD* show up at SHUL
>>(synagogue) wearing only a talith.
>
>>The other time I asked you if you had really shown up at the local shul
>>wearing only a talith.
>
>>Note - I never said that you had - quite a difference!
>
>	Your memory is failing.  You deliberately lead people to believe that
>I was Jewish as part of your personal plan and I agreed.

Whether people add their own words to the statement is their problem.
It's simply verbal prestidigitation - as I explained to you at the time.

>
>	You wanted people to believe a lie and you lead them to believe that
>lie.  

No! I wanted the people to believe what they wanted to believe. I didn't
say it and, if asked, explicitly denied it.

I always told anybody who challenged me to READ WHAT I WROTE and not
WHAT THEY THOUGHT I WROTE.

I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY, Matt. Everybody, except for Lester
Garrett and a few rather astute folks, either interpreted it as you
being Jewish *OR* they challenged *YOU*. If they challenged me, I always
told them the right answer by telling them to ask you what your son's
name was. They caught on *FAST*!

If they challenged *YOU*, you added to the story. *YOU* did the lying.

You were always easy to manipulate, Matt. The big problem was that you
are such a BUMBLER that you fouled things up like a loose cannon!

FWIW - when I mentioned your name, Matthias, as being derived from
Mattathias, the priest and father of Judah Maccabee, it was absolutely
correct. The insertion of "then he must be Jewish" was on the part of
folks who never bothered to read more than superficially.

When people asked me if you were really Jewish, I told them to read what
I wrote. If they saw the wording and thought it thru, they laughed. If
they were still uncertain or wanted to assure no misinterpretations, I
would tell them your son's name - Matthias.

Jews would never name their sons after themselves. A person is name
after a deceased relative - as a sign of remembrance.

>
>	Your history is very well known and it is interesting just where you
>have your limits in lying if any place.  

Yes - I refused to bogus up any data about Al Gentile, even though I
could have, because I always tell the truth. I let others do the lying -
even if only to themselves.

>
>	We both laughed over those who believed I was Jewish and you suckered
>people into that story and it was your idea.
>

Again - Read what I wrote. I never said that you were Jewish. I never
said that you had done that - only that you were the type. The rest was
their own insertions.

The dishonest one is you, Matt.

I pointed out the word play at the time to you.

Your memory is *VERY* selective, Matt.




From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 09:51:31 PDT 1996
Article: 59686 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematoria == gassing
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:32:55 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <321DEB47.CEE@gryn.org>
References: <4v48i6$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4v4gia$gte@news.enter.net> <4v9ds9$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vellg$jtm@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>  <4vjk36$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         gryn.org has given a shit to the tune of over 600 messages in three
> mail bombs so far.  So please to not day no one as there is the org
> owned by the wetwork Mossad type the did give a shit.

1. What mailbomb? My system handles 150,000 messages a day. What would
make any rational person think that a spamming mirror is a mailbomb?

2. There are no Mossad types at gryn.org, let alone wetworkers.

> 
> >Then you posted it again, and again, sometimes two and three times in a
> >single post.
> 
>         Excuse me, but I have carefully read the rules of this conference and
> I have found no problem with that.  What is your problem with that?

Then why are you complaining if somebody sets a spamming mirror on you?
> 
> >That's just childish and stupid. I had no problem with your making public
> >information public. I asked why you did it.
> 
>         I have reserved the right to post any response I choose to any insult
> to me that I perceive in this conference.

Matt, the only insult that you could get now is to be called a
Giwerizer.

You're spouting total nonsense. The messages in question that were
mirrored were your responses to the fact that you'd lost yet another
argument.
> 
>         And besides, now that we know we have a DOD connection with Nizkor, it
> is certainly worth pursuing.
> 
>         Look at it this way.  It may be as simple as he is a sysadmin and was
> pirating a fixed IP from 1B.

Or the Nizkor data base was made accessible for researchers with .mil
domains and was set up as one to simplify access, allow retrieval past
firewalls, other obvious items that anyone that knew anything about the
Internet would know.
> 
>         Or Nizkor may be a paid DOD/CIA operation.
>
With a publicly available entry?!?!

There's definitely something wrong with your meds, Matt.
 
>         In any event, it is no longer the simple altruistic operation it
> preteneded to be.

Non-sequitur.
> 
>         And then the entry on milnet vanishes but oneb.wimsey.bc.ca continues
> to exist.  That it is gone now does not mean it was never there.  In
> fact the disappearance of the listing coinciding with the first
> gryn.org mailbomb is also of interest.

Yesterday somebody scrambled an egg. Today somebody ate an egg.

Coincidence? Hardly!

There is absolutely no connection, since you received no mailbomb.

> 
>         Do you not have a curious bone in your body?

Curiosity != Delusional Paranoia.


From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 09:51:32 PDT 1996
Article: 59705 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 24 Aug 96 15:42:15
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <422_9608242213@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape] [Friday August 23 1996
21:33][*][0]*>

 MG>   If Alec is making it up about having been a member of the
 MG> Mossad and about killing people then the connection is there.
 MG> Of course, since he never said who he worked for at the Mossad
 MG> it is probably just another of his fantasies.  I have yet to
 MG> hear of a Mossad type that did not indentify himself by his
 MG> handler.

You really can't read, can you?

The person who added 1+1 and got 37 is Matt Giwer.

Why would I need a handler? Someone less than 10 years old is given
a pat on the head and, as a mascot, becomes an honorary member of an
organization. This is not exactly what folks would call being in the
spy business.

As for handlers, your knowledge of the intelligence business is also
nil, I see.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 09:51:33 PDT 1996
Article: 59706 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 24 Aug 96 15:49:35
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <423_9608242213@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)] [Friday
August 23 1996 23:22][*][0]*>

 MG> And what is the difference between what you folks post and what
 MG> I post?

Nizkor folks post the facts.

You post (and admit to posting) nonsense.

This is a fact.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 09:51:33 PDT 1996
Article: 59708 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: 24 Aug 96 15:57:31
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <425_9608242213@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest] [Friday August 23 1996
23:10][*][0]*>


 MG>   Mailbombing is considered net abuse.  A bot anything like what
 MG> you are doing is considered net abuse.

Poor Matt. More empty threats!

What *YOU* are doing is considered net abuse too.

ANd you didn't even know that, did you?

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 09:51:34 PDT 1996
Article: 59746 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The hypocrit who cried wolf...
Date: 23 Aug 96 20:13:09
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <421_9608242213@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kmcvay@nizkor.org

<*[*] [*] [Ken McVay OBC] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[The hypocrit who cried wolf...] [Friday August 23 1996 10:08][*][0]*>

 KO> [a troll complains about "mailbombing." pot. kettle. black.]

 >> No mailbombs have been sent, Matt.

 KO> No! true, Mr. Grynspan! See

 KO> http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/email.96
 KO> 07

Really, Ken!

I'm talking about MAILBOMBS! The fact that Matt tried so feebly is
of no consequence, like a flea trying to take a bite out of a
Merkava tank!

After all, the fact that he TRIED doesn't mean that he's succeeded!

I've watched him come in like a roaring lion, ready to demonstrate
his superior abilities and slowly, step by step, I've peeled off his
claims, lies, tricks. All of the realists have, once they recognized
his variations on the common theme, joined in.

The result is what we have before us now - a pathetic, incompetent,
IMPOTENT fool, delusional, paranoid, utterly ignorant creature,
unable to carry on an intelligent discourse.

It was what he was all along, but he hid it behind his smash-and-run
tactics. But he was a fool. He allowed his "success" in moderated
nets to fool him. Here there is nobody to turf him and he doesn't
dare leave on his own, admitting defeat.

He now shows what is REALLY underneath the thin veneers of the
deniers and haters.

The Kurt Steles, the Dave Harmons, they show various veneers, but
Matt is the best demonstration of the underlying nothingness of the
denier.

I SAID that he was the best thing to happen to this NewsGroup,
didn't I?


 >> You are delusional.

 KO> As noted, not in this case... mailbombing is something that has
 KO> been done, and the troll knows it with a certainty. It was a
 KO> rather toothless "attack," (one must suppress the need to
 KO> giggle) but then who but an "internet expert" like the troll
 KO> would think it would even be noticed? (What a maroon.)

Hell, Ken! I'm busting a gut on this one. I just delivered 450
Megabytes of mail to ONE of my downlinks! Pathetic!

++GMAIL 1.3++ There are none so blind as those who will not see!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org@ Sun Aug 25 09:51:35 PDT 1996
Article: 59769 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a famous story
Date: 24 Aug 1996 03:10:27 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4vlrr3$1sg@news1.io.org>
References: <4vjsrj$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vjsrj$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>	When is the famous org owner going to repeat the story of when I
>showed up in Temple wearing only a Talith?  
>

Your memory left you a long time ago, Matt.

I was very careful with my words.

On one occasion I specifically said that you *WOULD* show up at SHUL
(synagogue) wearing only a talith.

The other time I asked you if you had really shown up at the local shul
wearing only a talith.

Note - I never said that you had - quite a difference!



From alec@gryn.org@ Sun Aug 25 09:51:35 PDT 1996
Article: 59777 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!mr.net!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: 24 Aug 1996 03:46:18 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vltua$2r0@news1.io.org>
References: <11d_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> 
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In , rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>In article <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>(Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>> 
>>         Despite the fact that you had not hit puberty in 1947 you are still a
>> murderer.  
>
>
>Of course you realize that this is a defamatory statement.

Actually, it's a libelous statement.



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 09:51:36 PDT 1996
Article: 59792 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Apologies to Yale Edeiken
Date: 25 Aug 96 11:18:21
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4bb_9608251125@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: jfbe@vir.com

<*[*] [*] [Jean-Francois Beaulieu] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Apologies to Yale Edeiken] [Saturday August 24 1996 23:50][*][0]*>

 JB>  I apologise Yale for my comportment this week. I humiliated you
 JB> twice in the same week, about the number of Holocaust survivors
 JB> in Israel and the evacuation of the soviet Jews. I promiss I'll
 JB> spare you more in the future.

More delusionals creeping out!

You fabricate evidence, distort reality, get shot down with the
facts anyway - and declare victory?!?!

Pathetic!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 15:59:19 PDT 1996
Article: 59862 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Apologies to Yale Edeiken
Date: 25 Aug 96 14:50:50
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <4voiiv$3b4@Vir.com> <4vomtb$e6t@news.enter.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: qut@netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Skipp OBC] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken] [Sunday August 25 1996 11:06][*][0]*>

 SO> ! of the nazi armies escaped by exacuation.  In particular you
 SO> presented no
 SO> ! numbers on the evacuation of Polish Jews.
 SO> !
 SO> !  Sorry.  You are still providing phony numbers.
 SO> !
 SO> !  --YFE

 SO> You mean he's failing to provide enough personal data so you can
 SO> harass him better?  How evil!  This must be what Dr. Godhagen

Proof of illiteracy.

But we already knew that!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 15:59:22 PDT 1996
Article: 59863 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Date: 25 Aug 96 11:29:19
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4vithj$nr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4vme4n$sne@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4vouea$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)] [Sunday
August 25 1996 03:14][*][0]*>

 >> There is no reason to take seriously any comment you
 >> make on any technical matter, because you have proved
 >> yourself incapable of dealing with technical matters.

 MG>   Ridicule and threats are all tht holohuggers have.

Yes - and that's all that you can have.

 MG>   We have been there, done that, found out you are CS type
 MG> meaning you know nothing of science and are not qualified to
 MG> judge.

Thank you for finally admitting that Danny Keren is smarter and more
knowledgable than yourself.

Now - when will you see that psychiatrist?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Have you had a CAT scan lately? You may need it!!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 15:59:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59866 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: 25 Aug 96 11:50:35
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References: <11d_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4vltua$2r0@news1.io.org> <4vmgs6$1ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4vo9om$g7p@news1.io.org> <4vpfab$bep@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org] [Sunday August 25 1996
08:02][*][0]*>

 >> You are delusional. I admitted no such thing!

 MG>   DejaNews, good sir.  I specifically asked you if I could talk
 MG> about and you said I would not know the circumstances so it
 MG> would not mattere what I said.

IOW - you are talking nonsense.

DejaNews? Where, Matt? What's the URL?

Silence.

 MG>   You also responded to several other questions on the subject
 MG> in the affirmative, defensive even.

As I said, delusional. You are truly pathetic. You don't see reality
at all, any more. I wonder how much you really ever saw.


 >> You've lost it completely and are living in your own fantasy
 >> world!

 MG>   It is good to see that you deny ever having been involved in
 MG> wetwork for the Mossad.

 MG>   May I cast this denial in concrete?

You can cast it up your ass for all that I care.

You're still around the bend, Matt. Pathetic!

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 15:59:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59869 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When the Nazis return to Denmark...
Date: 25 Aug 96 11:32:19
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4ullr4$4vf@news.enter.net>  <4uqro6$isr@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <4v1aee$ap7@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4v3al8$fhb@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4v3nk0$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4v9q7v$apm@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4vbonu$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <321A3E2C.3272@unb.ca> <4vjk7q$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <321E7DB4.3119@unb.ca> <4vmech$sne@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <321F2BA9.3A3D@unb.ca> <4vp0e9$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...] [Sunday August 25 1996
03:48][*][0]*>

 >> No calculations required on this one.

 >> So tell us all, Giwer.  How *do* rivers move sediment?

 MG>   No calculations.

Already posted.

 MG>   Post them first.

Already done. Would you like the appropriate material emailed to
you?

Just ask for it, Matt.

You'll get it!

++GMAIL 1.3++ Remember the story of the Billy Goats Gruff!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 15:59:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59870 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Date: 25 Aug 96 11:35:36
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <4vil0d$ddc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vln2c$8p2@grivel.une.edu.au> <4vlpu5$cvr@grivel.une.edu.au> <4vp1r0$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."] [Sunday August 25 1996 04:12][*][0]*>

 >> than to invest it into a needless inter-continental
 >> train transportation scheme to transport jews.

 >> d A. corrected:

 >> "intra-continental", not "inter-continental"

 MG>   It is good to see you posting additional evidence that the
 MG> intention was NEVER to exterminate all Jews but to remove Jews
 MG> from Europe.  As we all know, even though Germany controlled
 MG> many parts of Asia and Africa Jews there were never shipped to
 MG> any work camps.

I should object to the lack of a coffee alert.

Your illogic was positively hilarious!

Don't you ever read what you wrote, Matt?

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sun Aug 25 15:59:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59871 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org
Date: 25 Aug 96 11:46:21
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <11d_9608221018@tor250.org> <4vk06r$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4vltua$2r0@news1.io.org> <4vpf56$bep@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: The evening mailbomb from gryn.org] [Sunday August 25 1996
07:59][*][0]*>

 >> Actually, it's a libelous statement.

 MG>   Actually you publically stated in this newsgroup that you were
 MG> into wetwork for the Jewish intelligence agency and wetwork is
 MG> murder.

 MG>   Or would you have it called something else?

Yes - a delusion on the part of a mentally sick individual who has
run into a situation where he loses continuously, so he attacks with
distortions and lies.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org@ Mon Aug 26 07:21:53 PDT 1996
Article: 60052 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@       (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Feigned ignorance
Date: 25 Aug 1996 22:57:29 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vqlop$ebc@news1.io.org>
References: <4vqjet$en3@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In <4vqjet$en3@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>	Why is it that when it comes to gassing personal statements and
>testimony are enough but when it comes to "jews control the media"
>physical evidence is required?  

You've already admitted to the volume of physical evidence available,
Matt.

Is this a challenge to send it to you?



From alec@gryn.org@ Mon Aug 26 07:21:54 PDT 1996
Article: 60064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!news
From: alec@gryn.org@       (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Alec Grynspan The Gruberesque Paranoid
Date: 25 Aug 1996 22:12:45 GMT
Organization: Internex Online (io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4vqj4t$clq@news1.io.org>
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4v64bm$snv@news.enter.net> <4v9cm6$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vbknq$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <321B1DF4.60F8@gryn.org> <4vjib9$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <321DE752.1207@gryn.org> 
Reply-To: alec@gryn.org@   (Alec Grynspan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

In , qut@netcom.com (Skipp OBC) writes:
>
>He means the same way you mailbombed me, but in much worse quantities.

Nope! I didn't mailbomb you.

Try again.

>
>Is your ISP contacts uunet.ca and uu.net?

Nope! They only prove DNS facilities. It's more convenient than other
routings.
 
>
>Yes, your victims are to complain to postmaster@uu.net, 
>postmaster@uunet.ca .

Who shrugs and drops your message into the bitbucket.

My ISP is *ME*. gryn.org runs on my system.




From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 08:43:52 PDT 1996
Article: 60086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:04:45 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <3221AEFD.639D@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:19:53 -0300, Keith Morrison 
> wrote:
> 
> >So now, Matt, you have contradicted yourself.  Either the water is
> >moving and is turbulant or it is not and there is no turbulance.
> 
> >No calculations required on this one.
> 
> >So tell us all, Giwer.  How *do* rivers move sediment?
> 
>         No calculations.
> 
>         Post them first.

He doesn't have to. His contentions fit observations that anyone can
make.

Yours do not.

Prove that, in a normal river, boundary conditions are such that fluid
flow is zero and that sediment and particles do not move.

You have made that assertion, contrary to observations that can be made
by anyone.

You have to prove those assertions.

Also, while you're at it:

Prove that Moses parted the Red Sea.

Prove that Joshua caused the sun to stand still prior to the destruction
of the Canaanites.

Prove, by your own methods, that the Dresden firebombing ever took
place.

Those are your contentions. 

Prove them.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 11:05:33 PDT 1996
Article: 60097 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:18:44 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3221C054.192D@gryn.org>
References: <424_9608242213@tor250.org> <4vr057$ai1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         I prefer netcom, uu.net and uunet.ca  for net abuse complaints.  As
> with the other matter it is out of my hands.  It is not your opinion
> that is of concern any longer.

Since none of them is my provider, lots of luck.

However, netcom.com is definitely interested in the libels by one of
their customers.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 11:05:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60101 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:50:06 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <3221AB8E.52FE@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 25 Aug 1996 13:09:44 GMT, mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
> wrote:
> 
> 
> >You failed to respond to this. This is the denier way.
> 
>         Individuals are not organizations.  If you knew anything about
> organizing people, in this case thousands of them, you would know the
> effort required and the huge paper trail that would be left.
> 

Like the one that exists?

I keep offering to send it to you and you keep objecting and refusing on
the grounds that it is tantamount to a mail bomb.

IOW - you've admitted to its existence.

>         But it would help if you would provide another example of such an
> enterprise being conducted in such great secrecy, other than the
> Jewish take over of the world that is.

In the case of the Nazis, the documentation is extensive. In the case of
your paranoia, none exists because there is no such situation.

> 
> >Read this carefully. Now I'll write it for 5 year olds.
> 
>         That that is your common market it is understandable why you are
> having problems in this conference.

My son would have had no problem with his statements at that age. Few
kids would.

The fact that it went over your head is telling.

> 
> "There is no
> >single document that I'm aware of that lists a plan from a to b. But
> >then there really wasn't one for the New Deal. If you find one that
> >describes the New Deal exactly as it came down, let me know.
> 
>         The DNC Party platform.  Did you miss it?   And following from that
> each of the individual programs which have a huge paper trail in and
> of themselves.  And documentation of every participant in every
> program.

A single document, Matt. You have not named a single document that is
relevant.

> 
>         You will need at least 10,000 documents to even pretend that 99% of
> them were never created.

Your logic here is nonexistent.

Try to maintain a small semblance of rationality, please.

> 
>         There was no war when he came to office.  Any plans were OBE.

"The civil war never happened. There was no single document describing
the plans, after all." 

Your logic, Matt.


> 
> >However we can put statements and policies together.
> >You will just have to wait until I'm finished. I do good work and not
> >the rushed lame stuff I've seen you post on Web sites.
> 
>         I will be looking forward to it.  Using the same methods as you I will
> provide the same level of proof as you do of somethings you do not
> want to here are true.

Jeez! Will you try to stick to rational English?

Even the best interpretation still says that you'll bogus up something
by pretending to use the same methods. Based on your history, that is
beyond you.

> 
> >>      Or are you willing to admit there was no government policy to
> >>eliminate either the Indians or the Jews?
> >>
> 
> >There was no United States government policy to elimate the American
> >Indians.
> 
> >There was a policy by the Nazi Goverment to elimate the Jews.
> 
>         Whatever you write, St. Martin's Press will not publish it.

More non-sequiturs.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 11:05:36 PDT 1996
Article: 60102 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:59:19 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <3221ADB7.6889@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 00:57:40 -0300, Keith Morrison 
> wrote:
> 
> >Oh yeah, I forgot about that, Matt.  I calculated that the velocity of the
> >river could be 30% slower at the boundaries and still pick up your magical
> >bone particles.
> 
> >So tell me, what did you calculate the correct figure to be?
> 
>         You are clearly lying.  The velocity at the boundary is zero and it is
> a matter or the turbulence at the boundary that entrains anything.
> And you know that.  Boudary conditions are always zero as you know but
> would rather lie about.

A boundary condition of zero presupposes absolutely smooth boundaries
and zero viscosity. Any object in the way disrupts the boundary.

Thank you for your admission of total lack of knowledge of the simplest
1st year fluidics.
> 
>         But then I may be wrong.  Post your calculations in any format you
> wish.  I will be most interested in calling the bluff of a holohugger.

Since the boundary conditions are those of high turbulence and lift, the
situation is moot. you've lost this case.

> 
> >> >Ain't pure democracy wunnerful?
> >>
> >>         That is what guns are for.
> 
> >Children and senile fools shouldn't be allowed near guns.  Especially is they
> >have the tendancy to use them on their own feet.
> 
>         Humans will kill if denied the means of self defense.  Take heed.


Another threat?

Or just the most remarkable piece of illogic this week?


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 11:05:36 PDT 1996
Article: 60103 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:35:12 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3221C430.28DC@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         And a man who told me he did wetwork for the Mossad objects to being
> described as a murderer for a Jewish organization.

Totally nuts - that's Matt Giwer, all right!

You're totally delusional.

I never did wetwork for the Mossad. I never said that I did.

You make Dee Lamzaki look sane!

And I'm only responding to you in the small amount of time that I have
to spare.

Still busy here.

Imagine what I could have done if I'd tried?


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 11:05:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60110 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bone fragments in the Vistula
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:02:41 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 227
Message-ID: <3221BC91.77@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         That is strange.  Alec says you already posted them.
> 
> <*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
> <+[Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...] [Sunday August 25 1996
> 03:48][*][0]*>
> 
>  >> No calculations required on this one.
> 
>  >> So tell us all, Giwer.  How *do* rivers move sediment?
> 
>  MG>   No calculations.
> 
> Already posted.
> 
> =====
> 
>         So what is going on here?  Did you or can't you?

All the calculations THAT WERE NECESSARY have been posted.

If you want a theoretical dissertation, look elsewhere, Matt.

> 
>         Very good.  Here is a hint.  No one knows how to calculate it save in
> a very gross manner.  But you know the fact is that the boundary is a
> chaotic system.   It is the amount of turbulence that raises material
> further into the stream so that it can be picked up and moved.

You've contradicted yourself, yet again. Shall I repost your message
where you said that flow is zero at the boundary?

> 
>         It does not continue to move but falls into the turbulent layer again
> where some fraction is returned into the moving flow of the river.


Oscillating vertically over a rather small range as it moves steadily
downstream. 

Depending on the roughness of the bottom, the turbulent lift will vary.

However, the particles would be disbursed over several miles within a
day and to the point of indistinguishability in a month.

> 
> However, based on experience,
> >I know that rivers *do* move particles and sediments.
> 
>         Particles are moved as above, the turbulence raising material into the
> forward flow.  A fraction (greater with greater turbulence) is raised
> and moved for a while then settles out while some other particle
> starts on the trip.  Sort of a random game of leapfrog.

That "fraction" is essentially 100% over any significant period of time.
That is why gold can be found in concentration on the bottom of rivers.
It is dense enough to settle out, while quartz and othe particles of
lower density - LIKE BONE - are spread out over the entire bottom or
swept out to sea.
> 
>         In the ground bone fragments we are are talking about the 1 cm down to
> about 1/2 to maybe 1/4 cm size, depending upon the grinding process.
> We are not talking about centuries of a stone being worn down but
> rather a time dependent process of grinding by people.  In such a
> process it simply goes from larger to smaller is modest steps with a
> very small fraction of minute fragments from spalling at the breaking
> edges.

Rough objects, not streamlined like the river rocks are. They would show
a very large resistance for their size and weight. The would move
easily, while being dissolved by the mildly acidic water.

[Pseudo-theory based on laminar flow and not turbulent deleted]

The turbulent flow would remove most of the bone fragments. The
remaining material woul have no reason to clump into streamlined forms
that would hold any shape over more than hours, let alone months or
years.

> 
>         Thus it was certainly there in 1945 and most likely a large part of it
> is still there today.  In any event, no one looked for it in 1945.

Your "theory" notwithstanding, the best that you get is a mixing of
human ashes of the smallest size mixed with an overwhelming volume of
other silt and industrial waste from upstream. The larger particles
would be more scattered, since they create a turbulence if still.

Nothing specific to find.
> 
>         And we still have the lakes without flow.
> 

Again with the no-flow lakes. The only significant body of water without
any flow is the Dead Sea. Other bodies do have flow. This includes
convection currents and even tidal currents. Just go look at one, Matt.

> 
>         I was silent because you were not willing to lay out your basis until
> now.  Above, I have given my basis.  When you are willing to be
> serious, I will be too.

However, he was talking of empirical, reliable measures in a real-world
situation - while you were talking of theoretical end-point equations
that reduce all other factors to zero.

No engineer would ever allow a scientific equation in a lab to over-ride
the working field equations.

Not if he wanted to stay employed, that is.

> 
>         What we would have would be that teardrop getting longer and longer
> every years buy by a lesser amount every year.  By now its growth
> should not be noticable at all.  There are tens of thousands of tons
> of material.

False. The teardrop presupposes laminar flow over a large area that
remains uniform for months and years. To arrive at the kind of condition
that you're talking about, the river would be carrying hundreds of times
the volume of the human ashes in other particles and the human ashes
would be well-mixed into that melee of grinding mass.

Unless there is considerable "stickiness" the buildup would take
centuries. In the meantime, the particles would be so distributed as to
make any attempts at measuring the volume that would be human ash
impossible, particularly by 1945 chemical analysis methods.

> 
>         To review the bidding.  It was not looked for in 1945.  Some place
> there should be a paper trail of the forensics of A-B if there were
> any.  It should document what was done, why it was done and what was
> not done and why it was not done.

Why? So that a certain set of revisionists wouldn't be able to point a
finger at this missing data 50 years later?

Your demand for an absolutely perfect paper trail is nonsensical. You
wish to apply the rules of evidence of an adversarial courtroom system
to the process.

F Lee Bailey might demand to know why there is a gap in the time to
autopsy, but that has little to do with reality and much to do with
getting guilty people off by insinuating conspiracies and *POSSIBLE*
tampering.

We don't need to go to beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt *YET
AGAIN*. There is no reasonable doubt, because the evidence is there
already.

However, all of that is inconsequential.

Even if the ashes weren't already scattered, the simplest answer of all
suffices.

They didn't think of it.

Perhaps they didn't think it necessary. They had enough other evidence
to do the job. 

>        If there was an intention to verify the gassing that was reported by
> the A-B survivors then certainly there had to be some forensic effort.

There was. But your demand that a 1990-style forensic investigation is
nonsensical. 99% of all cases in North America do not have the level of
investigation, today, that you are requiring to have been done in 1945.

> They found 35,000 or so left behind after the evacuation.  These
> people were not in the best of condition.  They made what had to be
> viewed at the time as wild and outrageous claims.

Why? The world already knew about the gassings. They'd gotten enough
reports prior to the liberations.

Some of the claims might have been outrageous, but when the guards
admitted to the same thing and documents were found that ratified these
claims, there was enough of a case.

When the remains of the gas chambers and crematoria were inspected,
there was sufficient evidence. When bones and bone fragments were found,
there was sufficient evidence.

Your demand that *ALL* of the fragments be found is a tad excessive.

> 
>         Obviously the first thing to do is to collect forensic evidence.
> 

Obviously not. You don't even know what forensics is about.

There was a gathering of forensic evidence. There was *NOT* a large
amount of complex forensic analysis done, because the amount of evidence
was sufficient to convict hundreds of times over.


>         What I have done here, despite all of this long and meaningless
> digression into river flow is to point out is that there is no a
> priori reason to say there was no reason to have looked for bone
> fragments.  There is every reason to have looked for bone fragments.
> And they did not look for them at A-B.

See above. You have not proven your case.

> 
>         I also say they should still be there today in the river, not to
> mention the lakcs.  With any luck and the deposition rate many of them
> are headed for fossilization.

Again - see above. The amount of useful evidence is nil. The amount of
evidence already existing, including more recent forensic analysis, is
sufficient for any rational person.

I don't see any need to try to gather more evidence, just because some
loonies insist that it is needed to "prove" what is already proven. Why
should "I" pay for it?

Since only the revisionists have any reason to try to find an out, why
haven't they paid for just such an analysis? If they're so sure as to
its findings, hiring a forensic team to verify the information should be
a top priority item!

In fact, their specious demands - since they know that nobody is going
to fund a search for the inconclusives - and non-action are telling us
that they already know that it would be foolish to try. Why gather more
evidence to disprove their fictions?


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 15:00:28 PDT 1996
Article: 60130 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a famous story
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:50:31 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 145
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On 25 Aug 1996 01:49:43 GMT, alec@gryn.org@      (Alec Grynspan)
> wrote:
> 
> >No! I wanted the people to believe what they wanted to believe. I didn't
> >say it and, if asked, explicitly denied it.
> 
> >I always told anybody who challenged me to READ WHAT I WROTE and not
> >WHAT THEY THOUGHT I WROTE.
> 
>         As that is the game you are playing here what is the point you are
> trying to make?

Nope! I'm saying it as plain as the nose on my face: I never told anyone
that you were Jewish.

It got Dahlman going alright!

He didn't bother to look more closely. He just went into a fit of
hysterics.

> 
> >I chose my words VERY CAREFULLY, Matt. Everybody, except for Lester
> >Garrett and a few rather astute folks, either interpreted it as you
> >being Jewish *OR* they challenged *YOU*. If they challenged me, I always
> >told them the right answer by telling them to ask you what your son's
> >name was. They caught on *FAST*!
> 
>         You chose your words very carefully to deceive people as to what you
> were saying as you are going now.  So what is your poing in this post?

Telling the truth.

No misdirection.

> 
>         You admit you intended to deceive and you admit you are intending to
> deceive now.

False. I admit no such thing.

I intended to let others deceive themselves. This is a fact.

I was always prepared to answer if asked directly and I did.

> 
>         Your credibility is about zero at this point.

Only among the Giwerolators - IOW, nobody.

> 
>         Want to go for negative?

No - I prefer to accentuate the positive unless I'm in the darkroom.

> 
> >FWIW - when I mentioned your name, Matthias, as being derived from
> >Mattathias, the priest and father of Judah Maccabee, it was absolutely
> >correct. The insertion of "then he must be Jewish" was on the part of
> >folks who never bothered to read more than superficially.
> 
>         If you did it was ancient history to me as I delivered that Schule
> lesson to the children of Jack Zimmerman years before I met you.

IOW - you were telling the same story yourself *before* you met me?!?

IOW - you were lying back then?!?

> 
> >When people asked me if you were really Jewish, I told them to read what
> >I wrote. If they saw the wording and thought it thru, they laughed. If
> >they were still uncertain or wanted to assure no misinterpretations, I
> >would tell them your son's name - Matthias.
> 
> >Jews would never name their sons after themselves. A person is name
> >after a deceased relative - as a sign of remembrance.
> 
>         Yes, you deliberately deceived people for your own purposes, just as
> you murdered for a Jewish organization.

I deceived no one. They deceived themselves. 

I murdered no one.

Again you libel.

> 
> >Yes - I refused to bogus up any data about Al Gentile, even though I
> >could have, because I always tell the truth. I let others do the lying -
> >even if only to themselves.
> 
>         Give it up.  You are an admittted murderer.  Wetwork is murder, like
> it or not.

But I never did any wetwork - unless you count my fixing a faucet tap or
2 - or repairng some other plumbing.

Some of it was difficult, but hardly murder, Matt.

> 
> >Again - Read what I wrote. I never said that you were Jewish. I never
> >said that you had done that - only that you were the type. The rest was
> >their own insertions.
> 
> >The dishonest one is you, Matt.
> 
> >I pointed out the word play at the time to you.
> 
> >Your memory is *VERY* selective, Matt.
> 
>         My memory has not forgotten that you claimed to have murdered for a
> Jewish organization.

Your ability to remember what you want to "remember", even if fictional,
is remarkable, Matt.

Only - I commited no murders. I did no wetwork.

> 
>         How could I have forgotten that?
> 
>         From the way you are backing off of your claim it appears you have
> spoken when you should not have spoken.  Sorry about that but you
> never made a point that it should be secret.
> 

Why should I make a point of secrecy about what you fabricate?

If you really believe that I said that, then seek help immediately! You
are definitely insane!

>         Although I do not believe a word of what you said if in fact it is
> true sorry, identifying you is only repeating your own words to me
>  and in public.
> 

As I said before. I never told you that. 

Your own history in this NewsGroup shows you for a delusional, paranoid
schizophrenic.

>         You should learn to keep your mouth shut.

And you should take your meds.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 17:33:05 PDT 1996
Article: 60202 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:53:25 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <3221AC55.3C40@gryn.org>
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4vb6hv$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <4ve458$llp@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  <4vithj$nr@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <321DB4AC.3F6A@gryn.org> <4vligo$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 47.219.1.196
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; HP-UX A.09.05 9000/720)

Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         It is truly amazing what otherwise educated holohuggers will promote
> to save their favorite gassing stories.  But of course for you, binary
> probably causes a special difficulty with addition.


Thank you for finally admitting that you have no rational response to
the facts of the Holocaust.

Each time that you sidestep an answer, the mirror bot gets an increment.

Spamming and trolling *ARE* net abuse, Matt. Mirrors and cancels aren't.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 18:50:38 PDT 1996
Article: 60216 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hey, Alec!!!!
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:30:38 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <3221C31E.C58@gryn.org>
References: <4vrq0p$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Are you going to mail bomb me for this one?

I haven't mailbombed you yet.

> 
>         Are you going to increment it?

Perhaps.

> 
>         Why is it that that I expect nothing in response to this because you
> were read the riot act by uu.net adn uunet.ca?

Hunh?  All I got from them was a forwarding of a message, since they
have nothing to do with it.

> 
>         Why is it that gryn.org can no longer send email to anyone on netsom?

That's odd. My messages seem to be getting thru without any problems.

My system snds thousands of messages a day, Matt. 

It's an ISP and a gateway.

I could always use one of my other aliases, now, couldn't I?

But I don't have to.

You're delusional.

> 
>         Ah well, you are history, Alec.
> 

As I said.

Delusional.


From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 20:11:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 23 Aug 96 20:07:24
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <420_9608242213@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Friday August 23 1996 05:01][*][0]*>

 MG>   At least you agree there is a conspiracy to violated copyright
 MG> but only point out that it may or may not be criminal in the
 MG> mind of one investigator.

You've gone totally delusional.

There is no conspiracy to violate your copyright, because your
copyright wasn't violated.

Conspiracy only applies in the case of criminal actions. There were
none.

I have not said otherwise.

How many repetitions of this message will it take to get you to
realize that?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Have you had a CAT scan lately? You may need it!!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Mon Aug 26 20:11:37 PDT 1996
Article: 60219 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: revision v. holohugging
Date: 24 Aug 96 15:54:18
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <424_9608242213@tor250.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: revision v. holohugging] [Friday August 23 1996 20:23][*][0]*>

 >> Must a cancelbot be used to demonstrate this?

 MG>   Would you really want to add that to the mailbombing abuse
 MG> complaint?

What mailbombing?

The only person that attempted a mailbomb is one Matt Giwer.

Cancelbotting spams, which would leave you with no messages, is
legitimate.

If you have a problem, send a message to abuse@gryn.org.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We're laughing at you Matt - you pathetic fool!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 07:31:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60250 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmtlh10.bnr.ca!nbdchc4.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:36:35 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <3221A863.7CD4@gryn.org>
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4ullr4$4vf@news.enter.net>   <2AV4oOev1KOG065yn@login.dknet.dk>  <6$P5oOev109N065yn@login.dknet.dk> <3218666d.328313619@news.inetport.com> <4vb6hv$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <321dc31d.68992161@news.zilker.net> <4vlin1$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 18:36:11 GMT, mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis)
> wrote:
> 
> > (There are documents for the extermination policies and I'm writing
> >an article for Nizkor to deal with this issue. It'll take about a year
> >to write and research.)
> 
>         You appear to have great problems reading the thread.
> 
>         Now would you like to post the policy document in either case?
> 
>         Or are you willing to admit there was no government policy to
> eliminate either the Indians or the Jews?
> 
All the necessary documents are part of the physical evidence packet
that's waiting for you.

Are you asking for it here?

That's all that you have to do.

Then you'll get it, all right.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 07:31:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60259 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Witches, Nazis and the fascination with evil
Date: 26 Aug 96 07:05:18
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <4vqraq$ai1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Witches, Nazis and the fascination with evil] [Sunday August 25 1996
20:33][*][0]*>

 MG> distance and the strangeness.  But even today there are people
 MG> who will confess to crimes they did not commit.  And the more
 MG> heinous the crime the more people who will confess.

Suuuure, Matt, suuuuuuure (wondering when the men in the white coats
will show up).

Thousands of people "confess" to crimes they didn't commit? All of
the same type?

And so many with journals and diaries?

And so many corroborating documents?

And all that physical evidence that you've admitted exists?

 MG>   The question regarding gassing and regarding consorting with
 MG> the devil are identical questions.  They are questions about
 MG> human nature.  They are not evidence for either gassing or
 MG> witchcraft.

All of that physical evidence, the journals and diaries, the
corroborating documents, the eyewitnesses, all for naught - because
Matt closes his eyes, sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts at
the top of his lungs "NOT SO!! NOT SO!!"

Would you like to see that evidence?

Just ask for it.

You'll get it.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 16:03:24 PDT 1996
Article: 60369 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,mtl.general
Subject: Re: JEWS TO AVOID CHRISTIAN LABEL LAWS
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:21:15 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <32232E8B.D0@gryn.org>
References: 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:60369 can.general:88513

acumen@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
> 
> 
> JEWS can now legally break the law for 40 days before, and 20 days after
> Passover.
> 

"Legally break the law?"

Is that like going up the down direction?

Of course, you seem to have "forgotten" that all that is implied is that
Hebrew "Kosher For Passover" labels will be allowed on food prepared in
Quebec - so that the money will stay in Quebec, rather than be used to
purchase food prepared elsewhere, which does not have to be French-only.

Since these are foodstuffs that don't normally need any kosher label
(only during Passover) and/or since these foodstuffs are made by
companies that don't have the special exceptions granted to ethnic food
producers - in other words they are not Jewish-owned companies - a
special exception is needed.

Companies owned by ethnics, producing ethnic foods, are already
excepted. That's why you can find Chinese writing on foods produced for
the Chinese population, ect.

Companies not in this category, wishing to prepare seasonal foods and
make a handsome profit from the Jewish population (the stuff costs
considerably more and is separately sold at a high markup) need the
exemption.

So what we have here is someone objecting to non-Jews making a profit
off Jews - and blaming the Jews for making it possible.

He must have been dropped on his head a few times as an infant.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 16:03:25 PDT 1996
Article: 60372 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!condor.ic.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.wildstar.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack of the killer holohuggers
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:53:38 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 35
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         No matter what happens in this newsgroup, there have been no
> mailbombings, no personal attacks against anyone supporting orthodox
> holohuggery.

Except that you've already done so.

It was so pathetically inept as to be laughable. 

>From  you - it figures.

>        Yet there have been attacks upon those questioning holohuggery's
> orthodoxy.  And they have been admitted and applauded in this
> newsgroup.

Still waiting for evidence, Matt. 

Please provide forensic analysis, a policy statement and physical
evidence.

>         Who are the uncivil people here?  The holohuggers.  Our resident
> muderer for a Jewish organization sends mail bombs and brags he
> controls uunet.ca to get away with it.  I was unaware the Canadians
> had sold their souls to the Mossad to shut down criticism.

Then you admit to being a resident murderer? Odd - there is no person
here to fit your description!

Who did you say controls uunet.ca? Who brags that he controls it?

URL in DejaNews, please.

Does your son know of your affliction? Is he making sure that you take
your meds?


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 20:57:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60404 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bmerhc5e.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: before I forget
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:27:13 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <32234C11.5748@gryn.org>
References: <4vk2ct$ib3@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <321E1069.37AB@gryn.org> <4vmcfp$sne@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         So what did you say?  Please be specific in your answer.

You are a fruitcake.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 20:57:34 PDT 1996
Article: 60422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Spielberg's Project
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:40:18 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <32234F22.4505@gryn.org>
References: <4vqu60$ai1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         Although it is the custom in Israeli "courts" to permit witnesses to
> get together and discuss their own testimony, most countries know that
> this taints the testimony and acts accordingly.  The reason of course


Proof please.

BTW - your physical evidence package will be sent shortly.

After all - you insist that it doesn't exist!

Of course, you also say that it's a mailbomb.

But - you consider 5 megabytes to be a mailbomb.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 20:57:35 PDT 1996
Article: 60423 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "No revisionist is persecuted":  Zundel
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:41:57 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <32234F85.380B@gryn.org>
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Kurt Stele wrote:
> 
> Alec Grynspan  wrote:
> 
> >Nobody is persecuted for being a revisionist.
> 

[inconsequential non-sequitur deleted]


Still waiting for evidence.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 20:57:36 PDT 1996
Article: 60425 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:45:34 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 17
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william c anderson wrote:
> 
> Kurt Stele (kurtstele@aol.com) wrote:
> :
> : Holohuggers deny there are evidentiary problems with the holocaust.
> 
> : Holohuggers deny any revisionist is persecuted.
> 
> Alec appeared to deny that.  He's wrong.
> 

Nope! The fact that some isolated incidents occur WRT racists is not the
persecution of revisionists.

I'm also excluding prosecution.

His rules of definition.


From alec@gryn.org Tue Aug 27 22:41:23 PDT 1996
Article: 60444 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:56:27 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <3222FE8B.702B@gryn.org>
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Daniel Keren wrote:
> 
> 
> HP workstation. I said so. You want to call it a PC? Fine,
> call it a PC. Call it a holohugger. I don't care.

Hmmmm! I use a 700/RX diskless acting as a terminal to the 755 server. 

Not bad for what's basically a web browser and mainframe terminal.

> 
> # A CS PhD who thinks spreadsheets are related to word
> # processing.  It is truly amazing.
> 
> Don't know, don't care. I give up. What's a spreadsheet?
> 

If you keep pulling, it'll probably come off. Matt's falling apart
faster every day.
> 
> Matt, computer science is not about document processing
> and organizing or stuff like that.
> 

How dare you tell Matt Giwer what Computer Science is all about?!?

He knows nothing, sees nothing, tells all.

> # Unix?  What to talk about it?  Or perhaps explain what you
> # do with Linux?  You should have at least said C.
> 
> Linux? It simulates Unix on a PC. Great thing.

Hmmph! HP-UX is no great shakes of an implementation.

> 
> Where you put C into all this I don't know. Great programming
> language. You can use it with Unix or with Windows.

I prefer PL/I. C is still assembler with sugar on top.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 28 11:24:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60597 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,mtl.general
Subject: Re: JEWS TO AVOID CHRISTIAN LABEL LAWS
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:53:53 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <32244F71.2791@gryn.org>
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acumen@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote:
> 
> Why, isn't it the appropriate place for a news item, indirectly referring
> to the KOSHER TAX?
> 

Ahhhh, yes! The "Kosher Tax" which every person with more than 2 brain
cells knows is nonexistent.

I understand that it's a favorite posting item for rabbit-fetishists.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 28 16:17:28 PDT 1996
Article: 60643 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:59:10 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 20
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:18:44 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
> wrote:
> 
> >Matt Giwer wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>         I prefer netcom, uu.net and uunet.ca  for net abuse complaints.  As
> >> with the other matter it is out of my hands.  It is not your opinion
> >> that is of concern any longer.
> 
> >Since none of them is my provider, lots of luck.
> 
> >However, netcom.com is definitely interested in the libels by one of
> >their customers.
> 
>         I note the mailbombings have stopped.

What mailbombings?


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 28 17:55:28 PDT 1996
Article: 60669 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:19:33 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         You have read that information but you have no idea what you are
> talking about else you would konw that you have.  Alex G. has declared
> it has been posted.  Why did you miss it?

URL please.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 28 17:55:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60672 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,mtl.general
Subject: JEWS TO AVOID CHRISTIAN LABEL LAWS
Date: 28 Aug 96 17:44:02
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
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<*[*] [*] [acumen@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: JEWS TO AVOID CHRISTIAN LABEL LAWS] [Tuesday August 27 1996
20:41][*][0]*>

 a> I guess the Jews, who buy the KOSHER foods, with the KOSHER TAX
 a> labels on them are buying from trefe manufacturers, at the
 a> supposed holiest time of the year for Jews?

1. There is no such thing as a Kosher tax. The last time that such a
   thing existed, it was non-Jews imposing the tax on Jews.

2. The religion of the manufacturer is inconsequential and the last
   time I checked, *ALL* manufacturers were traif. Your
   cannibalistic tendencies are noted.

   The only thing important about Kosher food is that it is Kosher,
   not who prepares it.

3. The holiest time of the year is in the fall, during Rosh Hashonna
   and Yom Kippur.

 a> Sounds like the Jew Grynspan must be suffering from either the
 a> DT's or senility, or perhaps both.

It looks like the dickwad Grosvenor is rather stupid.

 a> Why should JEWS be exempt from the labeling laws of Quebec, just
 a> because they are JEWS?

They are not exempt, stupid - it's the non-Jewish manufacturers who
need the exemption!

 a> Chinese and other ethnic groups must label their products in
 a> accordance with the consumer laws of Canada, so why shouldn't
 a> JEWS have to obey the laws of Quebec?

Which includes ethnic labelling if the firm is primarily a
manufacturer of ethnic goods or exports these goods.

Since I'm an expatriate Quebecer, I have a bit of knowledge of the
language laws.

You can go into any Chinese grocery store in Quebec and find goods
manufactured in Quebec with Chinese labels. I used to shop at the
one on La Gauchetiere and can say so with confidence.

Since the manufacturers in question happen to be non-ethnic, they
are out of luck, which means that the goods would have to be
imported from outside. Since these goods include such things as
milk, that becomes difficult.

Since there are very few (as in no) Jewish-only dairies, it means
that money leaves Quebec, non-Jewish Dairy owners don't get a chance
to make a few extra dollars - and you complain about how Jews
deliberately import their milk at the expense of local farmers.

 a> And, his comments that non-Jews are benefitting from the sale of
 a> KOSHER products for Passover, must be a real insult to all the
 a> JEWS who own the factories producing the so-called Kosher
 a> products, complete with the KOSHER TAX STAMPS on them.

"So-called Kosher" is non-existent. It is Kosher or non-Kosher.

As for Kosher Tax Stamps, there is no such thing - proven several
times over. Only people with fetishes for dog-turds believe
otherwise.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 28 17:55:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60678 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:05:53 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <32246E61.5465@gryn.org>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         I am talking about physical evidence.
> 
>         Physical evidence is something Jews only understand and demand when
> someone claims Jews control the media and banks and such.  When it has
> to do with gassing, things on the order of the Protocols of the Elders
> of Zion are damning.

Then you do want the physical evidence that's been presented here many
times Emailed to you after all!

Finally!

With your inconsistency and repeated turnabouts, you were behaving very
foolishly.

After all, you keep demanding the evidence, claiming it doesn't exist,
admitting that it does, refusing to look at it...

I will notify your provider that you've demanded the material, then I
will send it.

Just give me a date, Matt.

Then you'll get it.


From alec@gryn.org Wed Aug 28 22:56:25 PDT 1996
Article: 60708 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: To what do I owe the pleasure...
Date: 28 Aug 96 18:05:24
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 13
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<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[To what do I owe the pleasure...] [Tuesday August 27 1996 21:17][*][0]*>


 KS> I must be doing something right

You're finally getting yourself neutered?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 00:06:48 PDT 1996
Article: 27937 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: "Diversity" -- White Code Word
Date: 28 Aug 96 19:01:57
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 12
Message-ID: 
References: <321257de.3541100@news.inetport.com> <4vdlpd$3ot@news.esper.com> <321d1124.7781301@news.intnet.net> <321E197D.3918@eskimo.com> <4vlech$6cf@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <4vnakl$s5q@news-e2b.gnn.com>  <3220ef04.23638404@news.netdoor.com> <50026f$1pa@basement.replay.com>
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<*[*] [*] [Anonymous] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: "Diversity" -- White Code Word] [Tuesday August 27 1996 20:00][*][0]*>

 A> The culture that lives in diversity dies a thousand deaths.

The culture without diversity is already extinct.

++GMAIL 1.3++ It walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 00:56:42 PDT 1996
Article: 60739 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Other Victims of Anti-Semitism
Date: 28 Aug 96 19:03:55
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 83
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<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Other Victims of Anti-Semitism] [Wednesday August 28 1996
03:30][*][0]*>

 >> influence. The Sultan of Constantinople, who received
 >> many Jewish refugees wonders "Why is the King of Spain is
 >> expelling his most literate people?"

 MG>   They were consorts of the Moors who had conquered Spain of
 MG> course.       It is like expecting the Kuwaitis to think kindly
 MG> of the Palestinians who came with the Iraqis.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> In 1944, Columbus discovers America. Despite all the riches
 >> plundered in the Americas, Spain remains for 500 years the
 >> poorest country in Europe.

 MG>   Which public school should be sued for a rebate on your shit
 MG> education?  The real Spain brought so much gold and was so rich
 MG> that the value of gold in Europe deflated by 100% and silver
 MG> dropped from its traditional 20:1 to 7:1 valuation.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> Are those fact questionable?  Is this a coincidence, a
 >> statistical aberration, or are the Spaniards victims of
 >> anti-Semitism?

 MG>   Answer, they are not facts as they are not true.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> conditions worse than the cattle.  Instead of reforms   the
 >> Tzar instituted anti-Jewish pogroms, diverting the attention of
 >> the suffering peasants.

 MG>   Peter the Great freed the serfs and they revolted.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> Are those fact questionable?  Is this a coincidence, a
 >> statistical aberration, or were the Russian people victims of
 >> their own anti-Semitism?

 MG>   They are not facts and had nothing to do with the revolution.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> as seed money for the rearmament. As result of Hitler's insane
 >> policies, Germany faced total destruction and  twelve million
 >> Germans lost their lives.

 MG>   Hitler preached the superiority of the German people as did
 MG> every other European nation at the time.  There were no
 MG> antisemitic actions until the World Congress of Jews instituted
 MG> a total boycott of Germany.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> Are those fact questionable? Could Hitler gain power without
 >> anti-Semitism? Were the German people victims of their own
 >> anti-Semitism?

 MG>   They are not true therefore they are not facts.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?

 >> Are those fact questionable?  Is this a coincidence, a
 >> statistical aberration, or is there a correlation  between the
 >> expulsion of experienced managers and the economic crisis?

 MG>   I am not familiar with that one but given your track record so
 MG> far, it is very unlikely it is true.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 00:56:42 PDT 1996
Article: 60745 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Big Picture
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:17:09 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <32247105.65A0@gryn.org>
References: <4vr6o4$nmj@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4vrsq0$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <500qk4$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         And a PhD in CS who does not know what a spreadsheet is, is not a PhD
> in CS.

You obviously don't know much about Computer Science or what having a
PhD means.

Pssst! Concordia, Montreal, 1978.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 07:27:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60752 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!marlin.ucsf.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!bcarh8ac.bnr.ca!bcarh8ab.bnr.ca!news
From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 09:44:35 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <32244D43.111E@gryn.org>
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4ullr4$4vf@news.enter.net>   <2AV4oOev1KOG065yn@login.dknet.dk>  <6$P5oOev109N065yn@login.dknet.dk> <3218666d.328313619@news.inetport.com> <4vb6hv$788@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <321dc31d.68992161@news.zilker.net> <4vlin1$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <32204a3a.1401896@news.inetport.com> <4vr25v$ai1@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <3221AB8E.52FE@gryn.org> <500m75$4j3@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
>         2 or 3 questionable scraps of paper does not replace thousands of
> clear and unambiguous documents.

I'm talking about the real paper trail, Matt, not the denier's version.


From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 07:27:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60760 of alt.revisionism
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From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: To what do I owe the pleasure...
Date: 28 Aug 96 18:18:13
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 13
Message-ID: 
References: <5006n2$lav@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kurtstele@aol.com

<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[To what do I owe the pleasure...] [Tuesday August 27 1996 21:17][*][0]*>


 KS> I must be doing something right

You're finally getting yourself neutered?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 07:27:31 PDT 1996
Article: 60761 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holohoax numbers are too pat
Date: 28 Aug 96 18:22:03
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: kurtstele@aol.com

<*[*] [*] [Kurt Stele] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Holohoax numbers are too pat] [Tuesday August 27 1996 21:41][*][0]*>

 KS> You ever notice how "clean" the Holocaust numbers are?

 KS> 12 million people killed.

 KS> 6 million non-jews.

 KS> 6 million jews.


That's the rounded estimates, Kurt.

You understand rounded estimates, don't you?

Do you understand 1+1=2 yet?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 07:27:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60772 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape
Date: 28 Aug 96 19:09:39
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 15
Message-ID: 
References: <4vikjj$46u@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vl522$hv2@news.enter.net> <4vlpen$gk9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vr45i$g8v@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>  <500m3k$4j3@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape]
[Wednesday August 28 1996 01:41][*][0]*>


 MG>   Then people here lied when they described it.  Fine with me.

False - but why spoil your perfect record?


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 10:50:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60841 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: 28 Aug 96 19:17:31
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vrgj0$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4vtmel$di9@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <500var$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)] [Wednesday August
28 1996 04:18][*][0]*>

 MG>   Yes, spreadsheets are at the heart of computer science with
 MG> array packing and multiattribute array elements and optimal
 MG> packing without representing every attributed of every element.
 MG> But then, what is the optimum packing algorithm for a sparsely
 MG> packed n-dimensional array?

 MG>   If you have never heard of the issue, sue Brown.  It cheated
 MG> you.

Your ignorance is truly awsome, Matt. Is there anything that you do
know?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Thu Aug 29 10:50:50 PDT 1996
Article: 60857 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alec Grynspan 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Matt Giwer's latest tactic.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:11:54 -0400
Organization: Nervy Manglers
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <322453AA.EEC@gryn.org>
References: <423_9608242213@tor250.org> <4vrg7v$8e8@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <501105$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> 
>         He told me he did wetwork for the Mossad.
> 
>         What does that make him in your pea brain?

Someone being libelled, Matt.

You're both immature and transparent, Matt.

It's just another of your obvious attempts to be able to bow out of here
by pretending to be driven out.

You tried Ken McVay - that failed.

Then you tried me, after I mirrored a few copies of a message back to
you.

You figured that if you could get me mad enough, I'd do something like
deliver a *REAL* mailbomb and give you an excuse to escape this NG with
a "they forced me out by harassing me" claim in the next place that you
go.

You don't dare just leave quietly. That admits the loss to yourself.

You don't dare fake a triumphant farewell. People like me tend to laugh
at you too much when we show up with archives in the next net you try
this in.

Why do you think that I stopped?

Silly boy!


From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 30 08:39:50 PDT 1996
Article: 60925 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The shining lights of holohuggery
Date: 29 Aug 96 14:00:05
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: chuckf@rio.com

<*[*] [*] [Chuck Ferree] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: The shining lights of holohuggery] [Wednesday August 28 1996
10:43][*][0]*>


 CF> I'm not too sure about Grynspan, since he is a former pal of the
 CF> lyar gyar. And just who the hell is this turkey Chuch?  Chuck?

Nope!

Simply a useful tool. Tended to be a loose cannon - possibly due to
his condition.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Remember the story of the Billy Goats Gruff!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 30 14:12:55 PDT 1996
Article: 61099 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: defenders oif Keren
Date: 30 Aug 96 14:47:37
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: schwartz@infinet.com

<*[*] [*] [schwartz@infinet.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: defenders oif Keren] [Thursday August 29 1996 21:26][*][0]*>

 >> You are all so stupid as to believe that spreadsheets
 >> have something to do with wordprocessing.

 s> Gee... MY word processor does spreadsheets. I guess Mr. Giwer
 s> isn't smart enough to know that.

My wife's does. My son's does. Mine doesn't.

Come to think of it, in 30+ years of MIS and CS I have *NEVER* been
involved with spreadsheets on a professional basis.

And - yes - I do work with sparse matrices. That's how I designed
the diagram generator for Bell.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 30 14:12:55 PDT 1996
Article: 61100 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: 30 Aug 96 15:00:42
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 15
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: joebuck@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Charles] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant] [Thursday August 29 1996
23:16][*][0]*>

 C>   Have you ever been to the homes of any of those young American
 C> sailors who Israel so wantonly murdered in its horrific attack
 C> on the U.S.S. Liberty [see the U.S.S. Liberty Web Page, created

I haven't been to Santa Claus's house, either.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Fri Aug 30 15:38:52 PDT 1996
Article: 61115 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Required Amount Of Zyklon
Date: 29 Aug 96 16:00:53
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon] [Thursday August 29 1996 08:38][*][0]*>

 >> URL please.

 MG>   Fuck you.

Then you admit that you lied yet again.

 MG>   I do not waste the time with idiot murderers for jewish
 MG> intelligence agencies.

OK so you don't talk to your father's son.

URL please.

 MG>   Screw you, murderer.  That is all you are and nothing better,
 MG> a murderer as to told me you were.

Your meds are not very effective. Ask for something stronger.

 MG>   You ain't shit more than a Jewish murderer for a Jewish
 MG> organization.

Forget it, Matt.

You're stuck here.

The only way out for you is to admit that you had nothing to work
with.

You can't do that.

So you're stuck here forever.

This is your tar-baby.

++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:02 PDT 1996
Article: 61164 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!news.utdallas.edu!news.starnet.net!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: 29 Aug 96 15:53:34
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)] [Thursday August 29
1996 08:28][*][0]*>

 >> It's a workstation, Matt. That's how people call it.
 >> Not a PC. Running the "model" command on it gives:
 >> 9000/770/J210. Hope you're happy.

 MG>   What an idiot.  No idea about the HP like of workstations but
 MG> a PhD nevertheless.

He's right, You're wrong, Matt.

Par for the course.

 >> organizing tools, Matt. I'm not interested in this kind
 >> of stuff. I use Unix, and I program in C, matlab, X-maple.
 >> To write papers, I use Latex.

 MG>   The best of your knowledge means you are not involved in any
 MG> aspect of CS whatsoever, at any degree level.

He's right, You're wrong, Matt.

Par for the course.

 >> Your knowledge of science is so superficial that you
 >> cannot tell apart the tools and the core of the matter.

 MG>   You have shot yourself in the foot with this one.  Good luck
 MG> finding anyone to support your (other then AG who is an idiot)
 MG> after this one.

He's right, You're wrong, Matt.

Par for the course.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Have you had a CAT scan lately? You may need it!!
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:05 PDT 1996
Article: 61184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: real showerheads
Date: 30 Aug 96 15:17:38
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <981_9608301612@tor250.org>
References: <506aar$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[real showerheads] [Friday August 30 1996 04:56][*][0]*>

 MG> intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control inflow and
 MG> outtake of gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide
 MG> powder was used to generate the lethal smoke. From the gas
 MG> chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory."

A good description by a non-chemist of Zyklon-B.

So?

You're spamming again, I see.

++GMAIL 1.3++ I know that you're trying. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:06 PDT 1996
Article: 61187 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!condor.ic.net!branch.com!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!trellis.wwnet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines
Date: 30 Aug 96 15:06:19
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Giwer Parades His Ignorance and Foolishness: Diesel Engines] [Friday
August 30 1996 05:46][*][0]*>

 >> exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
 >> which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
 >> on page 99).

 MG>   A person who should know what a spreadsheet problem is but
 MG> does not can not be expected to comprehend what you are posting.

Good - you agree that diesels were used for some of the gassings.

 >> The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
 >> clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
 >> tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.

 MG>   We have been over this part of your education before.

 MG>   You need to learn what a spreadsheet is first.

You've already agreed. Thanks for emphasizing it.


 MG>   It is difficult to determine what your background really is.
 MG> A teenager would know what a spreadsheet is.

 MG>   You are certainly not what you claim.

What does that have to do with Comp Sci?


 MG> We pray for one last landing on the world that gave us birth
 MG> To rest our eyes on the fleecy skies and the cool green hills of
 MG> earth

For someone that screams about Copyright violations, your lack of
attribution to Robert A Heinlein shows what you really are.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:07 PDT 1996
Article: 61206 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: 29 Aug 96 15:57:18
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)] [Thursday August 29
1996 08:28][*][0]*>

 MG>   As I said, only you would lie in support of the fake CS major
 MG> Keren. You posted timely and well, liar.

Thank you for acknowledging that I am always honest.

 MG>   The mail bombs have ceased.

Yes, I understand that your efforts to bomb Ken were such dismal
failures that you stopped in humiliation.

Thank you for admitting your failures.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61207 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Big Picture
Date: 30 Aug 96 15:02:17
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: The Big Picture] [Friday August 30 1996 04:24][*][0]*>

 >> You obviously don't know much about Computer Science or what
 >> having a PhD means.

 >> Pssst! Concordia, Montreal, 1978.

 MG>   Looks like there are two of you who are equally ignorant.

Thank you for admitting that you know nothing about Computer
Science. 

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:09 PDT 1996
Article: 61211 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: 30 Aug 96 15:10:35
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <980_9608301612@tor250.org>
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4vtmel$di9@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>   <29AUG199610464585@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <506fom$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)] [Friday August 30
1996 06:29][*][0]*>

 >> Third, do you still insist this Workstation is a PC?  If
 >> so, why?    (Your answer ought to be amusing - make sure to
 >> discuss RISC and CISC   as part of it, OK?)

 MG>   Give it up.  He is a fraud.  HP does have a website.  Check it
 MG> out and compare the answer to my question.  Then ask him who fed
 MG> him that instead of giving the series.

So I can call you an embezzler because Microsoft has a web page?


 >> Typical Giwer obsfucation.  Of course Dr. Keren does CS work,
 >> he simply   does not build spreadsheets.

 MG>   He does not know what they are are he said they were related
 MG> to word processing.  You can read of course.  You will also
 MG> continue to defend a fellow holohugger no matter how obvious it
 MG> is.    Pretend you are conducting an interview.  And that was an
 MG> answer.  I would hold that against an HS only graduate applying
 MG> for a computer job.

Good - since you hire oh so many people.

As with the rest of your nonsense, you only show more and more
ignorance.

I worked with sparse matrices in the diagramming system that was
developed at Nortel. It had *ZERO* to do with spreadsheets.

As for asking that question of someone in the REAL development
world, you would never be given the opportunity. Your ignorance is
more obvious by the day.

++GMAIL 1.3++ Which clown are you - Bozo or Clarabelle?
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 10:04:10 PDT 1996
Article: 61238 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!news2.interlog.com!news.neca.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: revision v. holohugging
Date: 29 Aug 96 16:12:30
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de

<*[*] [*] [Nele Abels] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: revision v. holohugging] [Thursday August 29 1996 15:43][*][0]*>

 NA> Indeed. I have noticed that I too have been honoured with being
 NA> ignored by him. I have tried everything to beat an answer out of
 NA> him, including calling him "coward" - all in vain, only the
 NA> sound of silence (where is his manly pride?) Direct

You don't know how to push his buttons.

Look at how he raves and convulses at me!

Want to see me *REALLY* make him go round the bend?

++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org



From alec@gryn.org Sat Aug 31 13:42:19 PDT 1996
Article: 61292 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!tor250!org!gryn!alec
From: alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 31 Aug 96 00:02:47
Organization: Neuro Mancer's - The Gateway of Choice
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <33c_9608310010@tor250.org>
References:  <6$P5oOev109N065yn@login.dknet.dk> <3218666d.328313619@news.inetport.com> <500m75$4j3@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <506gg9$28s@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <507v33$d7u@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gryn.org
X-FTN-To: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com

<*[*] [*] [Matt  Giwer] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
<+[Re: Holocaust revisionism] [Friday August 30 1996 19:56][*][0]*>


 MG>   You should pay more attention to the newsgroup.  Every honest
 MG> person knows that there have only been a two or three ambiguous
 MG> documents refering to something about gassing.

Is that why you keep referring to offers to Email you the documents,
as tantamount to a mailbomb in volume?

 MG>   But then Diogenes must have been searching for a honest
 MG> holohugger.

And you weren't it.


++GMAIL 1.3++ We keep on laughing at you Matt.
--
|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/13
|Internet: alec@gryn.org




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