The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/griswold.leslie/1995/lg.0595


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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ntaoh$4q7@agate.berkeley.edu>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:40:22 GMT
Lines: 26

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> With all due respect, why don't you all take this little snit
> to private e-mail, where it could be read by people who really
> care about it?
> 
> --Travis

Because it makes them feel important to publicly tell EVERYONE what good
little anti-Nazis they are.

> In article ,
> Jeanne Kowalewski  wrote:
> 
>>In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
>>(Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>>Why don't you run around in circles of ever decreasing diameter 
>>until you fall into your own asshole? 
> 
>>Jeanne K.


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:43:38 GMT
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In a previous posting, Jenn Starkman (jstarkma@chat.carleton.ca) writes:
> Jeanne Kowalewski (jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote:

(snip)

>> Why don't you run around in circles of ever decreasing diameter until you
>> fall into your own asshole? 
> 
>> Jeanne K.
> 
> Hee hee!  I hereby nominate Jeanne for both the "Creative Snipping to
> Expose Lester's Idiocy Once Again Award" and the "Best Lester Flame In
> Ages Medal".

But... but Jenn, you've avoided completely the question, which is, are
jews a religion or a race?  I mean, heck, Theodor Herzl even said that
jews are a people, and who am I to argue with him?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Mon, 1 May 1995 09:43:38 GMT
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:50:43 GMT
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>But... but Jenn, you've avoided completely the question, which is, are
>jews a religion or a race?  I mean, heck, Theodor Herzl even said that
>jews are a people, and who am I to argue with him?

You are laboring under the delusion that you are asking an interesting
question.

It's like listening to a Communist ask whether house paint is working
class or bourgois.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Phew!  What a shit-storm!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:54:57 GMT
Lines: 12

Jeepers, but my asking the question whether jews are a race or a religion
sure raised a MAJOR shit-storm!  On the one hand, we have the
namby-pambies wailing about how they're just like you and I, except they
go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and on the other we have the
jews themselves dodging the issue outright, since they're damned either way!

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:40:59 PDT 1995
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:    <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com> 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:52:02 GMT
Lines: 59

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>It never ceases to amuse me how liberals (oops, I mean libertarians -
>>there's a HUGE difference!) keep on harping about "jewish smarts", while
>>shying away from a couple of benchmark definitions:
>>
>>1)  What SORT of intelligence are jews known for?  (animal cunning is not
>>something to be jealous of)
>>
>>2)  Jews are (supposedly) smarter than "whites".  Well, why not compare
>>jews to specific groups of whites, say Scots or Irish or French or German.
>> Or if Judaism is a religion, why not compare jew IQs with those of
>>Mormons, Baptists, Odinists, etc.?
> 
> 	I was talking about the way "W.P." types seem to perceive Jews, 
> actually.  While they seem to hold "Niggers," "Spics," "Gooks," etc. in 
> contempt as _inferior_, their hatred for Jews is because they supposedly 
> _control_ things (i.e. "Jewish media," "Zionist Occupying Government," 
> etc.).  This would not suggest an "inferior" intellect.

Amassing money, and BUYING one's way in to control is not _prima facae_
evidence of SUPERIOR intellect, either.

> 	Judaism, as I see it, is a culture and a religion.

Theodor Herzl and other founders and practitioners of Zionism, would
disagree with you.

> One can adopt the trappings of Judaism and, by following certain rituals 
> (a _mivke_ and the _bris_ for male converts, etc.), can become a Jew.

No, one can PRETEND that one is a jew.  The essence of being a jew is not
in the religion, Kevin (geez, I feel an overwhelming urge to put up my
"race or religion?" post again...)

> And I'd have to, 
> if doing this survey, distinguish between Ashkenazic Jews, Sephardic 
> Jews, and Jewish converts at the very least.  Personally, I don't think 
> Jews _are_ exponentially smarter than other White folks.  Of course, I 
> also don't think the Jews control our government either.
> 
> 	As for Jewish "animal cunning:" anyone who thinks that Jews have 
> some innate sense of how to handle money should examine the Israeli 
> economy.  That would be a pretty good disproof of the same.

Sorry, Kevin.  The only thing that can be likened to, is the inability of
a parasite to prosper without a host.

(snip)

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:41:00 PDT 1995
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Thank you, thank you...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o0sgj$shl@news.umbc.edu>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:57:15 GMT
Lines: 30

In a previous posting, Sean Jordan (sjorda1@zeus.towson.edu) writes:
> Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) wrote:
> : In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> : (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
> : > Geez, I feel so LOVED with all this speculation about me going on!  Wow! 
> : > Keep it up guys!
> 
> : One thing that is not speculation, Griswold: you are a proven liar.
> 
> : _That_ will never change. And I, for one, will continue to make certain
> : that everyone knows it.
> 
> : JGB
> 
> Why is everyone so dead set on saying that Les lies so much?  OK, if he 
> is a PROVEN liar, will someone please PROVE it to me?

I give meaning to their lives.  They really don't CARE about all of their
claims, they just want someone to pay attention to them.

Pathetic, isn't it?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Andy's memory!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:      <1995Apr25.115705.15499@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:19:40 GMT
Lines: 105

In a previous posting, Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> Actually, Andy, Indo-European and Northwest European are synonymous in the
>> racial sense.  Of course, it doesn't surprise me that I've got to explain
>> that to you.
> 
> Don't be pissy, Les. When you make up your own terms as you go along and
> constantly shift the definitions of same, you're going to have to explain
> them. Especially when your racial definitions include geographic
> references, used in a way that is completely inconsistent with geography.

Uh, that's because geography and race are not synonymous, Zippy.

> Indo-European, geographically and linguistically, refers to a far, far
> larger area than Northwest Europe. 

I'm speaking racially, pinhead.

>> > The master race keeps shrinking. Pretty soon, Les'll be signing on with the 
>> > Canninefaates or Batavarians or Frisians.
>> 
>> God forbid...
> 
> Ah, but sooner or later you'll find yourself in some faction of the "Aryan
> race." A movement based on tribalism is suceptible to the rise of tribal
> factions within its own ranks, as the recent invasion of squabbling tribes
> from the Netherlands demonstrates.

No, they're just silly leftists trying to "show" us racists the "futility"
of our ways.  Please don't make the mistake of taking their childish,
retarded behaviour as indicative of racial awareness.

Actually, I could give two shits WHAT you conclude.  I just wanted to make
the point.

>> Certain parts of Italy are more White than others, doofus.  Just as
>> certain Italians are White, and some aren't.  Here we go again with the
>> leftists pretending that the borders as they exist today define race...
> 
> I never said that borders define race, Les. My point is that there is no
> fixed definition of race. How can some areas be "more white than others"?

Looking at the inhabitants will usually give you a pretty good idea...

> You said that white meant "WHOLLY [emphasis added] of Northwestern
> European descent." Either you are or you aren't.
> 
> And your point on Italy completely ignores the central point that I was
> making.

Actually, I think that it very well addresses the point you were TRYING to
make (and failing miserably, I might add).

>> No, I never said that Charles Drew was an "Aryan"; I simply said that
>> anyone with eyes (and a brain) could see that he wasn't "Black", the way
>> that the puffed-up negrophiles want him to be.
> 
> Does that mean that any of the L.A. rioters with blue eyes and light skin
> aren't "Black," the way the puffed-up negrophobes want them to be?

Yeah, and there were just SO MANY blue-eyed, light-skinned rioters in
L.A., weren't there?  Hell, looked like midnight in a coal mine to me!

> Face it, Les, your definition of all of the races shifts whenever you want
> it to.

Not really.  YOU like to pretend that I said one thing when you know damn
well that I didn't, so you can lay out your crack-pot ideas for us.

> If blone-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Tonya Harding had won the gold 
> medal, she'd be white. She had her opponent whacked in the knee, so she's
> not white.

Do you REALLY believe that racists are that simple-minded?  Well, you just
go ahead and keep on believing that...

> Had Charles Drew committed some notorious crime, he'd be entirely,
> unreservedly black in your eyes.

No, he'd be dominated by his Black genes.

> Since he accomplished something, he's "not really black."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again for the benefit of people like
you with turtle-fast mental processes:  Charles Drew was neither wholly
Black, nor wholly White.  Yet, his having achieved something makes him a
"Black" hero (I didn't bring him up, some fool negrophile did).  Strange,
that:  NO "Black" hero is undisputedly a real, dyed-in-the-wool,
straight-from-the-jungle Negro.

> All of your definitions of race are wholly qualitative
> and subjective, based solely on your observation and opinion, and
> scientifically worthless, even in the fuzzy world of the "social
> sciences."

So's your mother.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Brandeis...asshole? (was: Re: Pyramid...Hero?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3nub6o$mhh@news.cs.brandeis.edu> ,<3nhdsa$p2m@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:44:55 GMT
Lines: 19

In a previous posting,  (st910248@pip.cc.brandeis.edu) writes:
> I think Les is also Stephan Monette...or maybe they are just fucking each
> other...
> MaNsTeR.  
> Nazi Racists please E me if you disagree.  I love flushing shit down the 
> toilet.

So that they can get you really pissed off, like Stephan does?

I still stand by my original analysis, that you're too stupid to be a real
jew.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: the pleasure of my company
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <799276293snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:01:29 GMT
Lines: 18

In a previous posting, Al Baron (A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk) writes:

(snip)

> I also wish some of you would adopt something a little more positive than
> denouncing people as anti-Semites ad nauseum when a) you don't agree with
> them and b) you can't refute what they say.

But Al, that's the extent of their positions.  Without recourse to the
"anti-semetism" club, they wouldn't have ANYTHING to say!

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Phew!  What a shit-storm!
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Mon, 1 May 1995 16:54:57 GMT
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
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Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 19:39:40 GMT
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>Jeepers, but my asking the question whether jews are a race or a religion
>sure raised a MAJOR shit-storm!  On the one hand, we have the
>namby-pambies wailing about how they're just like you and I, except they
>go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and on the other we have the
>jews themselves dodging the issue outright, since they're damned either way!

No, Mr Griswold, they aren't damned either way. It doesn't much matter
either way, that's the point.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD



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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ntaoh$4q7@agate.berkeley.edu>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:40:22 GMT
Lines: 26

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> With all due respect, why don't you all take this little snit
> to private e-mail, where it could be read by people who really
> care about it?
> 
> --Travis

Because it makes them feel important to publicly tell EVERYONE what good
little anti-Nazis they are.

> In article ,
> Jeanne Kowalewski  wrote:
> 
>>In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
>>(Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>>Why don't you run around in circles of ever decreasing diameter 
>>until you fall into your own asshole? 
> 
>>Jeanne K.


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 15:30:47 PDT 1995
Article: 25036 of alt.revisionism
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:43:38 GMT
Lines: 25

In a previous posting, Jenn Starkman (jstarkma@chat.carleton.ca) writes:
> Jeanne Kowalewski (jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote:

(snip)

>> Why don't you run around in circles of ever decreasing diameter until you
>> fall into your own asshole? 
> 
>> Jeanne K.
> 
> Hee hee!  I hereby nominate Jeanne for both the "Creative Snipping to
> Expose Lester's Idiocy Once Again Award" and the "Best Lester Flame In
> Ages Medal".

But... but Jenn, you've avoided completely the question, which is, are
jews a religion or a race?  I mean, heck, Theodor Herzl even said that
jews are a people, and who am I to argue with him?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs Mon May  1 18:17:01 PDT 1995
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Mon, 1 May 1995 09:43:38 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	
	
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:50:43 GMT
Lines: 17


From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>But... but Jenn, you've avoided completely the question, which is, are
>jews a religion or a race?  I mean, heck, Theodor Herzl even said that
>jews are a people, and who am I to argue with him?

You are laboring under the delusion that you are asking an interesting
question.

It's like listening to a Communist ask whether house paint is working
class or bourgois.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 18:17:02 PDT 1995
Article: 25055 of alt.revisionism
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Phew!  What a shit-storm!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:54:57 GMT
Lines: 12

Jeepers, but my asking the question whether jews are a race or a religion
sure raised a MAJOR shit-storm!  On the one hand, we have the
namby-pambies wailing about how they're just like you and I, except they
go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and on the other we have the
jews themselves dodging the issue outright, since they're damned either way!

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:40:59 PDT 1995
Article: 2673 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:    <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com> 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:52:02 GMT
Lines: 59

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>It never ceases to amuse me how liberals (oops, I mean libertarians -
>>there's a HUGE difference!) keep on harping about "jewish smarts", while
>>shying away from a couple of benchmark definitions:
>>
>>1)  What SORT of intelligence are jews known for?  (animal cunning is not
>>something to be jealous of)
>>
>>2)  Jews are (supposedly) smarter than "whites".  Well, why not compare
>>jews to specific groups of whites, say Scots or Irish or French or German.
>> Or if Judaism is a religion, why not compare jew IQs with those of
>>Mormons, Baptists, Odinists, etc.?
> 
> 	I was talking about the way "W.P." types seem to perceive Jews, 
> actually.  While they seem to hold "Niggers," "Spics," "Gooks," etc. in 
> contempt as _inferior_, their hatred for Jews is because they supposedly 
> _control_ things (i.e. "Jewish media," "Zionist Occupying Government," 
> etc.).  This would not suggest an "inferior" intellect.

Amassing money, and BUYING one's way in to control is not _prima facae_
evidence of SUPERIOR intellect, either.

> 	Judaism, as I see it, is a culture and a religion.

Theodor Herzl and other founders and practitioners of Zionism, would
disagree with you.

> One can adopt the trappings of Judaism and, by following certain rituals 
> (a _mivke_ and the _bris_ for male converts, etc.), can become a Jew.

No, one can PRETEND that one is a jew.  The essence of being a jew is not
in the religion, Kevin (geez, I feel an overwhelming urge to put up my
"race or religion?" post again...)

> And I'd have to, 
> if doing this survey, distinguish between Ashkenazic Jews, Sephardic 
> Jews, and Jewish converts at the very least.  Personally, I don't think 
> Jews _are_ exponentially smarter than other White folks.  Of course, I 
> also don't think the Jews control our government either.
> 
> 	As for Jewish "animal cunning:" anyone who thinks that Jews have 
> some innate sense of how to handle money should examine the Israeli 
> economy.  That would be a pretty good disproof of the same.

Sorry, Kevin.  The only thing that can be likened to, is the inability of
a parasite to prosper without a host.

(snip)

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:41:00 PDT 1995
Article: 2675 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Thank you, thank you...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o0sgj$shl@news.umbc.edu>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 16:57:15 GMT
Lines: 30

In a previous posting, Sean Jordan (sjorda1@zeus.towson.edu) writes:
> Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) wrote:
> : In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> : (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
> : > Geez, I feel so LOVED with all this speculation about me going on!  Wow! 
> : > Keep it up guys!
> 
> : One thing that is not speculation, Griswold: you are a proven liar.
> 
> : _That_ will never change. And I, for one, will continue to make certain
> : that everyone knows it.
> 
> : JGB
> 
> Why is everyone so dead set on saying that Les lies so much?  OK, if he 
> is a PROVEN liar, will someone please PROVE it to me?

I give meaning to their lives.  They really don't CARE about all of their
claims, they just want someone to pay attention to them.

Pathetic, isn't it?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:41:01 PDT 1995
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Andy's memory!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:      <1995Apr25.115705.15499@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:19:40 GMT
Lines: 105

In a previous posting, Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> Actually, Andy, Indo-European and Northwest European are synonymous in the
>> racial sense.  Of course, it doesn't surprise me that I've got to explain
>> that to you.
> 
> Don't be pissy, Les. When you make up your own terms as you go along and
> constantly shift the definitions of same, you're going to have to explain
> them. Especially when your racial definitions include geographic
> references, used in a way that is completely inconsistent with geography.

Uh, that's because geography and race are not synonymous, Zippy.

> Indo-European, geographically and linguistically, refers to a far, far
> larger area than Northwest Europe. 

I'm speaking racially, pinhead.

>> > The master race keeps shrinking. Pretty soon, Les'll be signing on with the 
>> > Canninefaates or Batavarians or Frisians.
>> 
>> God forbid...
> 
> Ah, but sooner or later you'll find yourself in some faction of the "Aryan
> race." A movement based on tribalism is suceptible to the rise of tribal
> factions within its own ranks, as the recent invasion of squabbling tribes
> from the Netherlands demonstrates.

No, they're just silly leftists trying to "show" us racists the "futility"
of our ways.  Please don't make the mistake of taking their childish,
retarded behaviour as indicative of racial awareness.

Actually, I could give two shits WHAT you conclude.  I just wanted to make
the point.

>> Certain parts of Italy are more White than others, doofus.  Just as
>> certain Italians are White, and some aren't.  Here we go again with the
>> leftists pretending that the borders as they exist today define race...
> 
> I never said that borders define race, Les. My point is that there is no
> fixed definition of race. How can some areas be "more white than others"?

Looking at the inhabitants will usually give you a pretty good idea...

> You said that white meant "WHOLLY [emphasis added] of Northwestern
> European descent." Either you are or you aren't.
> 
> And your point on Italy completely ignores the central point that I was
> making.

Actually, I think that it very well addresses the point you were TRYING to
make (and failing miserably, I might add).

>> No, I never said that Charles Drew was an "Aryan"; I simply said that
>> anyone with eyes (and a brain) could see that he wasn't "Black", the way
>> that the puffed-up negrophiles want him to be.
> 
> Does that mean that any of the L.A. rioters with blue eyes and light skin
> aren't "Black," the way the puffed-up negrophobes want them to be?

Yeah, and there were just SO MANY blue-eyed, light-skinned rioters in
L.A., weren't there?  Hell, looked like midnight in a coal mine to me!

> Face it, Les, your definition of all of the races shifts whenever you want
> it to.

Not really.  YOU like to pretend that I said one thing when you know damn
well that I didn't, so you can lay out your crack-pot ideas for us.

> If blone-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Tonya Harding had won the gold 
> medal, she'd be white. She had her opponent whacked in the knee, so she's
> not white.

Do you REALLY believe that racists are that simple-minded?  Well, you just
go ahead and keep on believing that...

> Had Charles Drew committed some notorious crime, he'd be entirely,
> unreservedly black in your eyes.

No, he'd be dominated by his Black genes.

> Since he accomplished something, he's "not really black."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again for the benefit of people like
you with turtle-fast mental processes:  Charles Drew was neither wholly
Black, nor wholly White.  Yet, his having achieved something makes him a
"Black" hero (I didn't bring him up, some fool negrophile did).  Strange,
that:  NO "Black" hero is undisputedly a real, dyed-in-the-wool,
straight-from-the-jungle Negro.

> All of your definitions of race are wholly qualitative
> and subjective, based solely on your observation and opinion, and
> scientifically worthless, even in the fuzzy world of the "social
> sciences."

So's your mother.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:41:02 PDT 1995
Article: 2681 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Brandeis...asshole? (was: Re: Pyramid...Hero?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3nub6o$mhh@news.cs.brandeis.edu> ,<3nhdsa$p2m@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:44:55 GMT
Lines: 19

In a previous posting,  (st910248@pip.cc.brandeis.edu) writes:
> I think Les is also Stephan Monette...or maybe they are just fucking each
> other...
> MaNsTeR.  
> Nazi Racists please E me if you disagree.  I love flushing shit down the 
> toilet.

So that they can get you really pissed off, like Stephan does?

I still stand by my original analysis, that you're too stupid to be a real
jew.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946 Mon May  1 19:43:22 PDT 1995
Article: 25058 of alt.revisionism
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: the pleasure of my company
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <799276293snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:01:29 GMT
Lines: 18

In a previous posting, Al Baron (A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk) writes:

(snip)

> I also wish some of you would adopt something a little more positive than
> denouncing people as anti-Semites ad nauseum when a) you don't agree with
> them and b) you can't refute what they say.

But Al, that's the extent of their positions.  Without recourse to the
"anti-semetism" club, they wouldn't have ANYTHING to say!

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!world!bzs Tue May  2 08:43:45 PDT 1995
Article: 25062 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Phew!  What a shit-storm!
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Mon, 1 May 1995 16:54:57 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 19:39:40 GMT
Lines: 16


From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>Jeepers, but my asking the question whether jews are a race or a religion
>sure raised a MAJOR shit-storm!  On the one hand, we have the
>namby-pambies wailing about how they're just like you and I, except they
>go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and on the other we have the
>jews themselves dodging the issue outright, since they're damned either way!

No, Mr Griswold, they aren't damned either way. It doesn't much matter
either way, that's the point.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed May  3 01:19:20 PDT 1995
Article: 21046 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ntaoh$4q7@agate.berkeley.edu>  
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:40:22 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4204 alt.politics.white-power:3321 alt.skinheads:14621 alt.revisionism:21046

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> With all due respect, why don't you all take this little snit
> to private e-mail, where it could be read by people who really
> care about it?
> 
> --Travis

Because it makes them feel important to publicly tell EVERYONE what good
little anti-Nazis they are.

> In article ,
> Jeanne Kowalewski  wrote:
> 
>>In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
>>(Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>>Why don't you run around in circles of ever decreasing diameter 
>>until you fall into your own asshole? 
> 
>>Jeanne K.


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed May  3 01:19:23 PDT 1995
Article: 21047 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 09:43:38 GMT
Lines: 25
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4205 alt.politics.white-power:3322 alt.skinheads:14622 alt.revisionism:21047

In a previous posting, Jenn Starkman (jstarkma@chat.carleton.ca) writes:
> Jeanne Kowalewski (jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote:

(snip)

>> Why don't you run around in circles of ever decreasing diameter until you
>> fall into your own asshole? 
> 
>> Jeanne K.
> 
> Hee hee!  I hereby nominate Jeanne for both the "Creative Snipping to
> Expose Lester's Idiocy Once Again Award" and the "Best Lester Flame In
> Ages Medal".

But... but Jenn, you've avoided completely the question, which is, are
jews a religion or a race?  I mean, heck, Theodor Herzl even said that
jews are a people, and who am I to argue with him?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed May  3 01:19:39 PDT 1995
Article: 21064 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Phew!  What a shit-storm!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
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Jeepers, but my asking the question whether jews are a race or a religion
sure raised a MAJOR shit-storm!  On the one hand, we have the
namby-pambies wailing about how they're just like you and I, except they
go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and on the other we have the
jews themselves dodging the issue outright, since they're damned either way!

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed May  3 01:19:43 PDT 1995
Article: 21066 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Andy's memory!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:      <1995Apr25.115705.15499@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 17:19:40 GMT
Lines: 105
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3348 alt.skinheads:14656 alt.revisionism:21066

In a previous posting, Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> Actually, Andy, Indo-European and Northwest European are synonymous in the
>> racial sense.  Of course, it doesn't surprise me that I've got to explain
>> that to you.
> 
> Don't be pissy, Les. When you make up your own terms as you go along and
> constantly shift the definitions of same, you're going to have to explain
> them. Especially when your racial definitions include geographic
> references, used in a way that is completely inconsistent with geography.

Uh, that's because geography and race are not synonymous, Zippy.

> Indo-European, geographically and linguistically, refers to a far, far
> larger area than Northwest Europe. 

I'm speaking racially, pinhead.

>> > The master race keeps shrinking. Pretty soon, Les'll be signing on with the 
>> > Canninefaates or Batavarians or Frisians.
>> 
>> God forbid...
> 
> Ah, but sooner or later you'll find yourself in some faction of the "Aryan
> race." A movement based on tribalism is suceptible to the rise of tribal
> factions within its own ranks, as the recent invasion of squabbling tribes
> from the Netherlands demonstrates.

No, they're just silly leftists trying to "show" us racists the "futility"
of our ways.  Please don't make the mistake of taking their childish,
retarded behaviour as indicative of racial awareness.

Actually, I could give two shits WHAT you conclude.  I just wanted to make
the point.

>> Certain parts of Italy are more White than others, doofus.  Just as
>> certain Italians are White, and some aren't.  Here we go again with the
>> leftists pretending that the borders as they exist today define race...
> 
> I never said that borders define race, Les. My point is that there is no
> fixed definition of race. How can some areas be "more white than others"?

Looking at the inhabitants will usually give you a pretty good idea...

> You said that white meant "WHOLLY [emphasis added] of Northwestern
> European descent." Either you are or you aren't.
> 
> And your point on Italy completely ignores the central point that I was
> making.

Actually, I think that it very well addresses the point you were TRYING to
make (and failing miserably, I might add).

>> No, I never said that Charles Drew was an "Aryan"; I simply said that
>> anyone with eyes (and a brain) could see that he wasn't "Black", the way
>> that the puffed-up negrophiles want him to be.
> 
> Does that mean that any of the L.A. rioters with blue eyes and light skin
> aren't "Black," the way the puffed-up negrophobes want them to be?

Yeah, and there were just SO MANY blue-eyed, light-skinned rioters in
L.A., weren't there?  Hell, looked like midnight in a coal mine to me!

> Face it, Les, your definition of all of the races shifts whenever you want
> it to.

Not really.  YOU like to pretend that I said one thing when you know damn
well that I didn't, so you can lay out your crack-pot ideas for us.

> If blone-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Tonya Harding had won the gold 
> medal, she'd be white. She had her opponent whacked in the knee, so she's
> not white.

Do you REALLY believe that racists are that simple-minded?  Well, you just
go ahead and keep on believing that...

> Had Charles Drew committed some notorious crime, he'd be entirely,
> unreservedly black in your eyes.

No, he'd be dominated by his Black genes.

> Since he accomplished something, he's "not really black."

I've said it before, and I'll say it again for the benefit of people like
you with turtle-fast mental processes:  Charles Drew was neither wholly
Black, nor wholly White.  Yet, his having achieved something makes him a
"Black" hero (I didn't bring him up, some fool negrophile did).  Strange,
that:  NO "Black" hero is undisputedly a real, dyed-in-the-wool,
straight-from-the-jungle Negro.

> All of your definitions of race are wholly qualitative
> and subjective, based solely on your observation and opinion, and
> scientifically worthless, even in the fuzzy world of the "social
> sciences."

So's your mother.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bzs@world.std.com Wed May  3 01:19:51 PDT 1995
Article: 21073 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Phew!  What a shit-storm!
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Mon, 1 May 1995 16:54:57 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 19:39:40 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4238 alt.politics.white-power:3352 alt.revisionism:21073 alt.skinheads:14668


From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>Jeepers, but my asking the question whether jews are a race or a religion
>sure raised a MAJOR shit-storm!  On the one hand, we have the
>namby-pambies wailing about how they're just like you and I, except they
>go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday, and on the other we have the
>jews themselves dodging the issue outright, since they're damned either way!

No, Mr Griswold, they aren't damned either way. It doesn't much matter
either way, that's the point.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May  4 16:35:08 PDT 1995
Article: 4251 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: None
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o1a1p$q04@agate.berkeley.edu>  <3o0777$ksh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 20:46:35 GMT
Lines: 35

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> In article , Mike Beebe  wrote:
>>TriSeven (triseven@aol.com) wrote:
> 
>>: ... the liberals gut instinct is to not listen to logic, but to
>>: listen to emotion, which will get them nowhere except in a bad situation
>>: when the shit hits the fan.
>>: 14 words:  Ruthee
>>
>>      Yaay! Trailer-Trash Ruthee is back! Where ya been, girl? Go into heat
>>and your dad had to hide you from the rest of the neighborhood dogs?
> 
> ...
> 
> LOL!  Thanks for demonstrating her point for us.  Our Tolerant
> Ones (tolerant of everything except America) are showing that
> they are human, after all.  Then again, they're never far
> from Jacobinism at heart, are they?  Sigh.  It must be kind of
> fun being a progressive, getting to enjoy being so filled 
> with hate, and yet to enjoy all that self-righteousness at the 
> same time.  Then again, this just shows that the progressives
> share the characteristic vices of the American people.  
> Maybe they'll realize that every nation and people has had 
> its ugly victories, and that the future of America is not at all
> guaranteed.

Yeah, I always thought Beebe was an ill-mannered boob.  Now, I know for sure.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri May  5 15:18:57 PDT 1995
Article: 21135 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o7cnl$rqd@agate.berkeley.edu> <3ntaoh$4q7@agate.berkeley.edu>   
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:15:22 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4362 alt.politics.white-power:3451 alt.skinheads:14814 alt.revisionism:21135

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
>>In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
>>> With all due respect, why don't you all take this little snit
>>> to private e-mail, where it could be read by people who really
>>> care about it?
>>> 
>>> --Travis
>>
>>Because it makes them feel important to publicly tell EVERYONE what good
>>little anti-Nazis they are.
> 
> Well, I don't believe in Naziism either and I don't have any special
> gripe against the Jews.  I don't buy the absurd conceit that they 
> are the chosen people, but I admit that the notion, though false, has 
> probably aided the survival of their nation.
> 
> But you have raised a telling point.  In some ways, anti-racism or
> anti-fascism does play an important social role.  It is one of the few ways
> we have of affirming our goodness and sociability to each other.  By
> condemning racism, we can nonthreateningly affirm ourselves and our worth
> to others.  In a sense, it is taking on the role of civil religion, and
> anyone who professes to care about race and nation, even in a somewhat
> muted and moderate sense, is a blasphemer or a heretic at the very least.

Funny, that.  Much the same can be said (and IS said) about
"multi-racialists" by racists.

> Anti-racism does other useful things too.

Like sending mousetraps in the mail, and trashing people's homes?

(snip)

> I almost hate to post even moderate affirmations of the value
> of white European civilization, because in doing so I am participating 
> in one of the few actual sacrileges left open to us in this day.  

Then why do you?  Nothing is more odious than someone who dabbles in White
racism, and probably gets a nefarious thrill out of doing something "bad".

It may come as a surprise, Travis, but White racists are NOT racist
because it's something "different", and it's a good way to shock our
parents:  most of us are SERIOUS about this.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 05:10:16 PDT 1995
Article: 4362 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o7cnl$rqd@agate.berkeley.edu> <3ntaoh$4q7@agate.berkeley.edu>   
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:15:22 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4362 alt.politics.white-power:3451 alt.skinheads:14814 alt.revisionism:21135

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
>>In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
>>> With all due respect, why don't you all take this little snit
>>> to private e-mail, where it could be read by people who really
>>> care about it?
>>> 
>>> --Travis
>>
>>Because it makes them feel important to publicly tell EVERYONE what good
>>little anti-Nazis they are.
> 
> Well, I don't believe in Naziism either and I don't have any special
> gripe against the Jews.  I don't buy the absurd conceit that they 
> are the chosen people, but I admit that the notion, though false, has 
> probably aided the survival of their nation.
> 
> But you have raised a telling point.  In some ways, anti-racism or
> anti-fascism does play an important social role.  It is one of the few ways
> we have of affirming our goodness and sociability to each other.  By
> condemning racism, we can nonthreateningly affirm ourselves and our worth
> to others.  In a sense, it is taking on the role of civil religion, and
> anyone who professes to care about race and nation, even in a somewhat
> muted and moderate sense, is a blasphemer or a heretic at the very least.

Funny, that.  Much the same can be said (and IS said) about
"multi-racialists" by racists.

> Anti-racism does other useful things too.

Like sending mousetraps in the mail, and trashing people's homes?

(snip)

> I almost hate to post even moderate affirmations of the value
> of white European civilization, because in doing so I am participating 
> in one of the few actual sacrileges left open to us in this day.  

Then why do you?  Nothing is more odious than someone who dabbles in White
racism, and probably gets a nefarious thrill out of doing something "bad".

It may come as a surprise, Travis, but White racists are NOT racist
because it's something "different", and it's a good way to shock our
parents:  most of us are SERIOUS about this.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 05:10:20 PDT 1995
Article: 4365 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>  
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:43:52 GMT
Lines: 57
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3454 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4365

In a previous posting, Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> 1)  What SORT of intelligence are jews known for?  (animal cunning is not
>> something to be jealous of)
> 
> Gee, I dunno, Les. How would you categorize the intelligence of the
> world's greatest (arguably) physicist (Albert Einstein), one of America's
> greatest jurists (Louis Brandeis), the world's most accomplished pianist
> (Vladmir Horowitz, RIP), America's foremost conductor (Leonard Bernstein),
> and the most gifted film director of his generation (Steven Speilberg)?
> Sounds like a pretty broad spectrum to me. And that's just off the top of
> my head, as I don't have a "Jew/not Jew" list on my wall.

It's funny, really.  If the jews you name are/were so intelligent, why are
all their accomplishments from America and Europe?  Why not anywhere in
the Middle East (there WERE jews there before 1948, ya know), or anywhere
else that jews were living (like China)?

>> > : 2)  Jews are (supposedly) smarter than "whites".  Well, why not compare
>> > : jews to specific groups of whites, say Scots or Irish or French or German.
>> > :  Or if Judaism is a religion, why not compare jew IQs with those of
>> > : Mormons, Baptists, Odinists, etc.?
>> > 
>> > It seems that Jews do put ian emphasis on education, literacy and historical
>> > knowledge of their people.  Seems like a good plan to me.
>> 
>> Again, total avoidance of the argument.  Geez, you semitophiles go in for
>> that a lot...
> 
> Okay here's a direct answer. Who gives a flying fuck?

I think many people do.  Since IQs are worthless when we're talking about
White/Black, but beyond question when we're talking about White/jew, I
think it's VERY important.

> I, for one, am uninterested in a complete compilation of the aggregate IQ of 
> every nation on Earth. And if you can find one IQ test that is
> culturally/linguistically neutral, more power to you.

You disappoint me, Andy.  It's pathetic that you're resorting to the
"cultural bias" argument.  Well, of COURSE IQ tests are biased - they're
biased in favour of determining how well a given individual can contribute
to OUR culture.  Is it at ALL relevant how well an African can do whatever
it is that Africans do well (somebody help me out here - I can't think of
ONE thing that Africans do well), or, as Kaa loved to argue, that
Greenlanders can build igloos to withstand the most trying conditions?

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 20:49:43 PDT 1995
Article: 4362 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Religion or race?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o7cnl$rqd@agate.berkeley.edu> <3ntaoh$4q7@agate.berkeley.edu>   
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:15:22 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4362 alt.politics.white-power:3451 alt.skinheads:14814 alt.revisionism:21135

In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
>>In a previous posting, Travis C. Porco (porco@pathos.Berkeley.EDU) writes:
>>> With all due respect, why don't you all take this little snit
>>> to private e-mail, where it could be read by people who really
>>> care about it?
>>> 
>>> --Travis
>>
>>Because it makes them feel important to publicly tell EVERYONE what good
>>little anti-Nazis they are.
> 
> Well, I don't believe in Naziism either and I don't have any special
> gripe against the Jews.  I don't buy the absurd conceit that they 
> are the chosen people, but I admit that the notion, though false, has 
> probably aided the survival of their nation.
> 
> But you have raised a telling point.  In some ways, anti-racism or
> anti-fascism does play an important social role.  It is one of the few ways
> we have of affirming our goodness and sociability to each other.  By
> condemning racism, we can nonthreateningly affirm ourselves and our worth
> to others.  In a sense, it is taking on the role of civil religion, and
> anyone who professes to care about race and nation, even in a somewhat
> muted and moderate sense, is a blasphemer or a heretic at the very least.

Funny, that.  Much the same can be said (and IS said) about
"multi-racialists" by racists.

> Anti-racism does other useful things too.

Like sending mousetraps in the mail, and trashing people's homes?

(snip)

> I almost hate to post even moderate affirmations of the value
> of white European civilization, because in doing so I am participating 
> in one of the few actual sacrileges left open to us in this day.  

Then why do you?  Nothing is more odious than someone who dabbles in White
racism, and probably gets a nefarious thrill out of doing something "bad".

It may come as a surprise, Travis, but White racists are NOT racist
because it's something "different", and it's a good way to shock our
parents:  most of us are SERIOUS about this.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 20:50:05 PDT 1995
Article: 4389 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: More Andy...
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)


In a previous posting, Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> And by yours, race is nothing and environment everything.
> 
> No. Heredity plays a part, and race plays a part in heredity. Environment
> plays a part. The "Nature vs. nurture" debate has been raging since
> Lendel, and it's not close to settled.

Geez, Andy, that's exactly what we say.  Only, we come right out and SAY
that heredity is the MORE important factor.  Environment cannot put
anything in to the DNA that is not there.

> I'm not rabidly opposed to IQ tests; I just understand their limitations.
> I'm not opposed to seismographs, but I don't use them to predict the
> weather.

You're a scream.  However, we aren't talking about seismographs, we're
talking about IQs and IQ tests, and you ARE rabidly opposed to them.  This
message is the FIRST time you've admitted that they have ANY use, and that
only because you have no alternative if you want to be taken at all
seriously.

>> That's what is so infuriating about people like you:  you argue as if
>> proponents of IQ tests assert that they are INFALLIBLE, PERFECT, and the
>> ONLY thing necessary to "grade" people.  No-one serious has ever alleged
>> that.  They are ONE useful tool to AID us in determining facts, in this
>> case, the facts of anthropology.
> 
> They are one useful tool for comparing one sort of intelligence and
> knowledge of one particular set of cultural, linguistic, and educational
> paradigms.

Big words, Andy.  However, my response is the same as I've said before: 
our society (culture, if you will) doesn't CARE about how well a Black can
chuck a spear, or a Greenlander build an igloo.  It DOES care about how
well Blacks and Greenlanders can adapt to a high-tech civilization (which
they've never created on their own, I might add.)

> Trying to extrapolate the general intellectual ability of a
> large group of people based on an average of such tests is like trying to
> predict the outcome of an election by the number of campaign signs on your
> street.

Specious analogy.  But then, what better way to cloud the issue than with
specious analogies, right?

The IQ tests CONFIRM what we can OBSERVE.  In THAT manner, they are UNLIKE
political campaigns.
 
>> And in your world, "limited use" equals "no use"?
> 
> My car's gas gauge has a limited use. I find it enormously helpful on a
> daily basis. I don't use it to follow the stock market.

IQ tests are not used to follow the stock market, either.  They ARE used
to determine an individual's (and a group's) suitability to live in a
high-tech environment, and if scientists were allowed to MAKE their
studies without the Politically Correct twaddle of people like you, who
impose morality on facts, and draw the logical conclusions from their
studies, most of your arguments would evaporate like water on a Bunsen burner.

Fear.  That's it.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 22:26:40 PDT 1995
Article: 3478 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: More Andy...
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:     <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>     
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)


In a previous posting, Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> And by yours, race is nothing and environment everything.
> 
> No. Heredity plays a part, and race plays a part in heredity. Environment
> plays a part. The "Nature vs. nurture" debate has been raging since
> Lendel, and it's not close to settled.

Geez, Andy, that's exactly what we say.  Only, we come right out and SAY
that heredity is the MORE important factor.  Environment cannot put
anything in to the DNA that is not there.

> I'm not rabidly opposed to IQ tests; I just understand their limitations.
> I'm not opposed to seismographs, but I don't use them to predict the
> weather.

You're a scream.  However, we aren't talking about seismographs, we're
talking about IQs and IQ tests, and you ARE rabidly opposed to them.  This
message is the FIRST time you've admitted that they have ANY use, and that
only because you have no alternative if you want to be taken at all
seriously.

>> That's what is so infuriating about people like you:  you argue as if
>> proponents of IQ tests assert that they are INFALLIBLE, PERFECT, and the
>> ONLY thing necessary to "grade" people.  No-one serious has ever alleged
>> that.  They are ONE useful tool to AID us in determining facts, in this
>> case, the facts of anthropology.
> 
> They are one useful tool for comparing one sort of intelligence and
> knowledge of one particular set of cultural, linguistic, and educational
> paradigms.

Big words, Andy.  However, my response is the same as I've said before: 
our society (culture, if you will) doesn't CARE about how well a Black can
chuck a spear, or a Greenlander build an igloo.  It DOES care about how
well Blacks and Greenlanders can adapt to a high-tech civilization (which
they've never created on their own, I might add.)

> Trying to extrapolate the general intellectual ability of a
> large group of people based on an average of such tests is like trying to
> predict the outcome of an election by the number of campaign signs on your
> street.

Specious analogy.  But then, what better way to cloud the issue than with
specious analogies, right?

The IQ tests CONFIRM what we can OBSERVE.  In THAT manner, they are UNLIKE
political campaigns.
 
>> And in your world, "limited use" equals "no use"?
> 
> My car's gas gauge has a limited use. I find it enormously helpful on a
> daily basis. I don't use it to follow the stock market.

IQ tests are not used to follow the stock market, either.  They ARE used
to determine an individual's (and a group's) suitability to live in a
high-tech environment, and if scientists were allowed to MAKE their
studies without the Politically Correct twaddle of people like you, who
impose morality on facts, and draw the logical conclusions from their
studies, most of your arguments would evaporate like water on a Bunsen burner.

Fear.  That's it.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 23:18:19 PDT 1995
Article: 14815 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lynching (was: Re: Why Griswold?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o5lnj$hnk@moe.cc.emory.edu> <3o3qvr$i4d@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:26:04 GMT
Lines: 24

In a previous posting, Matthew L Miller (libmlm@curly.cc.emory.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> : Maybe we should also be asking how many Blacks were lynched before 1865? 
> 
> Well, Les, since the definition of lynching is an extrajudicial mob 
> execution, it wouldn't have been possible at a time when slaveowners were 
> allowed to do whatever they wanted to their human property.  Any more 
> questions?  Or are you going to ignore me, like you do everyone else who 
> exposes you as a pitiable intellectual cripple?

Oh, no, here we go with the "po' Black slaves" bit.

Listen, jackass, Black slaves were infinitely better off in the "racist"
U.S. of A. than they would have been back in Africa.

And the only thing you've shown is that you're a pathetic, whining negrophile.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 23:18:38 PDT 1995
Article: 14835 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Does Jenn Starkman Sleep?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3o9ufa$1cd@decaxp.harvard.edu>   
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:24:23 GMT
Lines: 32

In a previous posting, Jenn Starkman (jstarkma@chat.carleton.ca) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
>> In answer to your question, yes, she does, in a coffin during the day,
>> filled with earth from her native land.
> 
>> Les
> 
> Hehehe...and which "native land" would that be, Lester?
> 
> Canada, where I was born and where my family has lived for 4 generations?
> 
> Poland, which is where my family lived before coming to Canada at the
> turn of the century?
> 
> Please, Lester, do tell.

Well, I WAS gonna say that you're an "international" vampire...

> Oh, and Les, doesn't it bother Sylvie that you spend so much time
> observing the sleeping habits of other women?  Oughtn't you be at home
> tending to your wife's needs,

Wouldn't you like to know (seems EVERY woman wants a White man...)

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 23:18:59 PDT 1995
Article: 14859 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Rednecks?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <1995May5.195412.138700@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>      <3n65g5$c51@martha.utk.edu>
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 03:24:13 GMT
Lines: 42

In a previous posting, Kathy R. Roberto (krrober@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu) writes:
> @vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
> Organization: Illinois State University
> Distribution:
> 
> Curt (curt@tampico.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
> : edu4a2j@leeds.ac.uk (A. Jingar) writes:
> 
> :  The White Race have
> : >been known in the past to be the most malevolent one with the slave trade,
> : >taking over and killing Indians, taking over South-Africa, Australia,
> : >India/Pakistan, etc,etc. So WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY ETHNIC MINORITIES ARE
> 
> 
> : >MALEVOLENT ???
> 
> 
> :     Take a look at who makes up the jail populations and see if
> :     you can figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> : --
> : Curt Bolding             curt@tampico.cso.uiuc.edu
> 
> 
>   I'm sorry this guy lives in the same area as I do.  I knew there were
> rednecks here, but I didn't think that they were _completely_ brain-dead.
> TTFN--kathy

I love how people throw the term "redneck" around, but never try to refute
the supposedly "redneck" stats that people in the know come up with. 
Guess they know better...

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May  6 23:19:01 PDT 1995
Article: 14860 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lynching (was: Re: Why Griswold?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <1995May05.222602.1920@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>   
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 03:32:37 GMT
Lines: 57


In a previous posting, Ken Mcvay (kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca) writes:
> In article  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
> 
>>In a previous posting, Matthew L Miller (libmlm@curly.cc.emory.edu) writes:
>>> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>>> : Maybe we should also be asking how many Blacks were lynched before 1865? 
>  
>>> Well, Les, since the definition of lynching is an extrajudicial mob 
>>> execution, it wouldn't have been possible at a time when slaveowners were 
>>> allowed to do whatever they wanted to their human property.  Any more 
>>> questions?  Or are you going to ignore me, like you do everyone else who 
>>> exposes you as a pitiable intellectual cripple?
> 
>>Oh, no, here we go with the "po' Black slaves" bit.
> 
>>Listen, jackass, Black slaves were infinitely better off in the "racist"
>>U.S. of A. than they would have been back in Africa.

(snip)

> How many Blacks _were_ lynched prior to 1865, Mr. Griswold?

None, Mr. McOyvey.  Zero.  Zip.

(unless you wann start boo-hooing over the various slave rebellions, in
which case I'd argue with you that they weren't LYNCHED, they were
SUMMARILY EXECUTED.)

>>And the only thing you've shown is that you're a pathetic, whining negrophile.

> Anyone thinking to wait until Mr. Griswold provides the definitive
> answer to his own question should not hold their breath.

Uh, there are two reasons why I would have asked the question, McOyvey:

1)  Because I DIDN'T KNOW the answer, and I was hoping to find out;

2)  Because I DID know the answer, and I wanted to find out if Mattoid was
a 1) negrophile, or 2) dyed-in-the-wool crybaby and liar for the "po'
oppressed Black man".

Anyway, what are you doing out of your element, such as it is?  Go flog
your pissant little Nizkor project to people who care to indulge in
self-flagellation.

(say, did you see the one about Hitler being half-Jewish?  Why don't you
put THAT one in your Nizkor project?  It sounds about your speed.)

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 05:24:32 PDT 1995
Article: 14815 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lynching (was: Re: Why Griswold?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3o5lnj$hnk@moe.cc.emory.edu> <3o3qvr$i4d@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:26:04 GMT
Lines: 24

In a previous posting, Matthew L Miller (libmlm@curly.cc.emory.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> : Maybe we should also be asking how many Blacks were lynched before 1865? 
> 
> Well, Les, since the definition of lynching is an extrajudicial mob 
> execution, it wouldn't have been possible at a time when slaveowners were 
> allowed to do whatever they wanted to their human property.  Any more 
> questions?  Or are you going to ignore me, like you do everyone else who 
> exposes you as a pitiable intellectual cripple?

Oh, no, here we go with the "po' Black slaves" bit.

Listen, jackass, Black slaves were infinitely better off in the "racist"
U.S. of A. than they would have been back in Africa.

And the only thing you've shown is that you're a pathetic, whining negrophile.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 05:24:45 PDT 1995
Article: 14835 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Does Jenn Starkman Sleep?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3o9ufa$1cd@decaxp.harvard.edu>   
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:24:23 GMT
Lines: 32

In a previous posting, Jenn Starkman (jstarkma@chat.carleton.ca) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
>> In answer to your question, yes, she does, in a coffin during the day,
>> filled with earth from her native land.
> 
>> Les
> 
> Hehehe...and which "native land" would that be, Lester?
> 
> Canada, where I was born and where my family has lived for 4 generations?
> 
> Poland, which is where my family lived before coming to Canada at the
> turn of the century?
> 
> Please, Lester, do tell.

Well, I WAS gonna say that you're an "international" vampire...

> Oh, and Les, doesn't it bother Sylvie that you spend so much time
> observing the sleeping habits of other women?  Oughtn't you be at home
> tending to your wife's needs,

Wouldn't you like to know (seems EVERY woman wants a White man...)

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 05:25:02 PDT 1995
Article: 14859 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Rednecks?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <1995May5.195412.138700@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>      <3n65g5$c51@martha.utk.edu>
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 03:24:13 GMT
Lines: 42

In a previous posting, Kathy R. Roberto (krrober@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu) writes:
> @vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
> Organization: Illinois State University
> Distribution:
> 
> Curt (curt@tampico.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
> : edu4a2j@leeds.ac.uk (A. Jingar) writes:
> 
> :  The White Race have
> : >been known in the past to be the most malevolent one with the slave trade,
> : >taking over and killing Indians, taking over South-Africa, Australia,
> : >India/Pakistan, etc,etc. So WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY ETHNIC MINORITIES ARE
> 
> 
> : >MALEVOLENT ???
> 
> 
> :     Take a look at who makes up the jail populations and see if
> :     you can figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> : --
> : Curt Bolding             curt@tampico.cso.uiuc.edu
> 
> 
>   I'm sorry this guy lives in the same area as I do.  I knew there were
> rednecks here, but I didn't think that they were _completely_ brain-dead.
> TTFN--kathy

I love how people throw the term "redneck" around, but never try to refute
the supposedly "redneck" stats that people in the know come up with. 
Guess they know better...

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 05:25:04 PDT 1995
Article: 14860 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lynching (was: Re: Why Griswold?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <1995May05.222602.1920@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>   
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 03:32:37 GMT
Lines: 57


In a previous posting, Ken Mcvay (kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca) writes:
> In article  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
> 
>>In a previous posting, Matthew L Miller (libmlm@curly.cc.emory.edu) writes:
>>> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
>>> : Maybe we should also be asking how many Blacks were lynched before 1865? 
>  
>>> Well, Les, since the definition of lynching is an extrajudicial mob 
>>> execution, it wouldn't have been possible at a time when slaveowners were 
>>> allowed to do whatever they wanted to their human property.  Any more 
>>> questions?  Or are you going to ignore me, like you do everyone else who 
>>> exposes you as a pitiable intellectual cripple?
> 
>>Oh, no, here we go with the "po' Black slaves" bit.
> 
>>Listen, jackass, Black slaves were infinitely better off in the "racist"
>>U.S. of A. than they would have been back in Africa.

(snip)

> How many Blacks _were_ lynched prior to 1865, Mr. Griswold?

None, Mr. McOyvey.  Zero.  Zip.

(unless you wann start boo-hooing over the various slave rebellions, in
which case I'd argue with you that they weren't LYNCHED, they were
SUMMARILY EXECUTED.)

>>And the only thing you've shown is that you're a pathetic, whining negrophile.

> Anyone thinking to wait until Mr. Griswold provides the definitive
> answer to his own question should not hold their breath.

Uh, there are two reasons why I would have asked the question, McOyvey:

1)  Because I DIDN'T KNOW the answer, and I was hoping to find out;

2)  Because I DID know the answer, and I wanted to find out if Mattoid was
a 1) negrophile, or 2) dyed-in-the-wool crybaby and liar for the "po'
oppressed Black man".

Anyway, what are you doing out of your element, such as it is?  Go flog
your pissant little Nizkor project to people who care to indulge in
self-flagellation.

(say, did you see the one about Hitler being half-Jewish?  Why don't you
put THAT one in your Nizkor project?  It sounds about your speed.)

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 15:10:21 PDT 1995
Article: 21153 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ogflo$24r@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3obvvv$276@student.anu.edu.au>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>  
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 21:57:39 GMT
Lines: 36
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.discrimination:22941 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4401 alt.politics.white-power:3491 alt.revisionism:21153

In a previous posting, Lane Singer (lsd@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> In  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les
> Griswold) writes: 
> 
>>This one always cracks me up.  Follow it through, here, Alex ole
>> buddy: Hitler was half Jewish.  Hitler orchestrated the "Holocaust".
>>Therefore, a half-Jew marched his fellows off to the gas chambers.
>> Therefore, Germany should foot NONE of the guilt for the "Holocaust".
> 
> You know as well as I that Hitler wasn't half Jewish. But even if
> he were, he didn't implement the Holocaust single-handedly.

Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.

> Nevertheless, present day Germany =isn't= guilty of the Holocaust.
> Germany of 50 and 60 years ago was. Do you deny this?

Absolutely.  How can Germany be guilty of something that never happened? 
But even if it did:  Hitler (rightly) identified the jews as _the_ problem
for Germany and Germans, and he did EVERYTHING NECESSARY to save the
German people.

Nevertheless, present day Germany =is= paying massive reparations for the
"Holocaust", and is STILL flogged with "guilt" by spokesmen like Ignatz
Bubis.  Do you deny THIS?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bzs@world.std.com Sun May  7 15:10:23 PDT 1995
Article: 21154 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Sat, 6 May 1995 21:57:39 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 23:05:06 GMT
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
>"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
>trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
>implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.

We cannot really help you with your poor and vague grasp of these
issues. I'm sorry that it all melts into such a undistinguished mush
in your head, but you do understand that some people are just easily
confused.

Hitler, as absolute dictator of Nazi Germany, is often used in the
spoken word as the symbol of Nazism.

On a similar point, when the news announces "The White House said
today..." make a note; the "White House" is a building, and as such
doesn't talk, or say anything. Sometimes a word is used to personify
something else.

>> Nevertheless, present day Germany =isn't= guilty of the Holocaust.
>> Germany of 50 and 60 years ago was. Do you deny this?
>
>Absolutely.  How can Germany be guilty of something that never happened? 

I think you should go back to working on your more fundamental lack of
skills of observation.

>But even if it did:  Hitler (rightly) identified the jews as _the_ problem
>for Germany and Germans, and he did EVERYTHING NECESSARY to save the
>German people.

And he did a great job, huh?!

Ah, what a paradise the Thousand Year Reich of May 1945 must have been
to live in...

Oh, right, that was someone else's fault. Let me give you a free clue:
Failure to understand reality is rarely reality's fault.

Now go crawl back under your rock, loser.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 21:40:30 PDT 1995
Article: 4468 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism? 
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3ogflo$24r@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>   
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:16:43 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21157 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4468 alt.politics.white-power:3501

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
>>"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
>>trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
>>implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.
> 
> 	I suppose I could ask where you got that idea, but I doubt it 
> would help.

Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.

> In any event, I think most Exterminationists believe that there were quite a 
> few guilty parties involved.  Eichmann was certainly responsible for fair 
> share of the Holocaust, as was Goebbels and a few others.  And nobody ever 
> said that Mengele was a mindless puppet.

That's true.  When it comes time to naming names, THEN the claim of
Hitler's sole responsibiltiy disappears faster than a bride's nightie. 
Too, since Israel can't try Hitler, they gotta blame SOMEONE.

> 	What kind of massive reparations is Germany currently paying? 
> (I'm not saying that they are or that they aren't: I'm just curious as to 
> where I could find out exactly how much Israel and the world Jewish 
> community is getting from Germany in exchange for Germany's role in the 
> "Holocaust.")  I'm sure that you can provide some statistics on this.

I believe the current figure is not unadjacent to RM 20 billion, although
I'll have to check it.

> 	And could you explain exactly what sort of "Jewish crimes" 
> warranted the systematic extermination of Jewish men, women, and 
> children? In other words: why are Jews such a threat that they must be 
> dealt with by any means necessary?

I doubt it.  I could tell you that jews had been behind the First World
War, the Versailles Treaty, saddling Germany with massive reparations,
etc., and you'd just dismiss it with an impatient wave of your hand as the
tirade of an anti-semitic crank.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May  7 21:40:35 PDT 1995
Article: 4470 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Andy's semantics (my provider keeps killing the subject on me)
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:       <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>    bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> And what is your definition of "good" science in the service of politics? 
> 
> There is no such thing.

I see.  But you have no problem defining "bad" science in the service of
politics, so you should be able to define "good" science, or at least
"not-bad" science, so used.
 
>> Logical thought processes are likely to be more important to one type of
>> culture than another.  What's wrong with determining that?
> 
> Nothing. As long as you realize that that's all you're testing.

I see again.  Science for the sake of science, right?  That's right up
there with government grants to study the mating habits of Peruvian toads.
 
>> Then again, they MAY measure how well that person will fare in the real
>> world.
> 
> So may a weightlifting contest, a spelling bee, or a contest to see who
> can change the distributor on a '64 Impala the fastest.

Not to worry, folks.  This is just the classic liberal defense of _reductio
ad absurdum_.

>> Innate ability to do what?
> 
> Innate ability to perform certain forms of reasoning. We've covered this.
> Measuring innate ability is the INTENT. How well the test meets that goal
> is the subject of much debate. As IQ changes throughout life, obviously,
> some component of what IQ tests measure is not genetic, but is shaped by
> environment.

Strange, how EVERY SINGLE TEST that determines intelligence is guilty of
the same thing, and guilty of it to exactly the same degree.  Gee, those
scientists who developed IQ tests sure were dumb!:-)

>> No, Andy:  scientific instruments exist so that scientists can verify or
>> disprove their suppositions.
> 
> Boy howdy, I hope that you're not a scientist. Instruments exist to record
> data, and to do so without passion, bias, or error. They don't always do
> that, but that's the idea. The data thus collected is used to prove or
> disprove a hypothesis. N.B.: a hypothesis is not the same thing as a
> supposition.

Sorry, Andy, you're wrong there.  A hypothesis IS a supposition, based on
incomplete evidence.  When a scientist has an irrational attachment to a
given hypothesis, though, and repeatedly disregards what his instruments
tell him, THEN he's guilty of bad science.

>> But people don't get steamed at polls the way they get steamed at debates
>> about race and IQ.
> 
> Opinion polls are avowedly opinion. They don't claim to be immutable fact.

Neither do IQ tests, nor do their testers.  However, they ARE supportive
of what OTHER branches of science also tell us (history, anthropolgy,
etc.)  Gee, it sounds like I've already said this - you can't be
stubbornly refusing to listen to what I say, can you?
 
>> Andy, science is amoral.  What we do with it is determined by our morality.
> 
> Science should be amoral, but scientists are human, and are sometimes
> motivated by factors other than pure inquiry.

Indeed some of them are.  The vast majority, however, aren't.

> They pervert science for political or persoanl gain. That I consider immoral.

Again, some do, some don't.  Neat how you eliminated the disqualifier of
"some" from your slam.

>> I define as "immoral" any attempt to supress a given area of research with
>> hysteria, spitting, name-calling, and all the other tools regularly
>> employed by equalitarians.
> 
> I have seen no such effort to suppress inquiry--only vehement disagreement
> with the methods employed. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the
> kitchen.

Really, Andy?  Then clean the shit out of your eyes.

Professor Arthur Jensen has been repeatedly threatened physically.  Any
scientist who MENTIONS race and IQ in the same breath is threatened with
financial retribution (Phillipe Rushton comes to mind - he's the guy who
supposedly postulated the Black-White-Asian scale).
  
Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 06:27:02 PDT 1995
Article: 21157 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism? 
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3ogflo$24r@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>   
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:16:43 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21157 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4468 alt.politics.white-power:3501

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
>>"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
>>trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
>>implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.
> 
> 	I suppose I could ask where you got that idea, but I doubt it 
> would help.

Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.

> In any event, I think most Exterminationists believe that there were quite a 
> few guilty parties involved.  Eichmann was certainly responsible for fair 
> share of the Holocaust, as was Goebbels and a few others.  And nobody ever 
> said that Mengele was a mindless puppet.

That's true.  When it comes time to naming names, THEN the claim of
Hitler's sole responsibiltiy disappears faster than a bride's nightie. 
Too, since Israel can't try Hitler, they gotta blame SOMEONE.

> 	What kind of massive reparations is Germany currently paying? 
> (I'm not saying that they are or that they aren't: I'm just curious as to 
> where I could find out exactly how much Israel and the world Jewish 
> community is getting from Germany in exchange for Germany's role in the 
> "Holocaust.")  I'm sure that you can provide some statistics on this.

I believe the current figure is not unadjacent to RM 20 billion, although
I'll have to check it.

> 	And could you explain exactly what sort of "Jewish crimes" 
> warranted the systematic extermination of Jewish men, women, and 
> children? In other words: why are Jews such a threat that they must be 
> dealt with by any means necessary?

I doubt it.  I could tell you that jews had been behind the First World
War, the Versailles Treaty, saddling Germany with massive reparations,
etc., and you'd just dismiss it with an impatient wave of your hand as the
tirade of an anti-semitic crank.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 06:57:10 PDT 1995
Article: 4468 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism? 
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3ogflo$24r@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>   
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:16:43 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21157 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4468 alt.politics.white-power:3501

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
>>"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
>>trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
>>implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.
> 
> 	I suppose I could ask where you got that idea, but I doubt it 
> would help.

Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.

> In any event, I think most Exterminationists believe that there were quite a 
> few guilty parties involved.  Eichmann was certainly responsible for fair 
> share of the Holocaust, as was Goebbels and a few others.  And nobody ever 
> said that Mengele was a mindless puppet.

That's true.  When it comes time to naming names, THEN the claim of
Hitler's sole responsibiltiy disappears faster than a bride's nightie. 
Too, since Israel can't try Hitler, they gotta blame SOMEONE.

> 	What kind of massive reparations is Germany currently paying? 
> (I'm not saying that they are or that they aren't: I'm just curious as to 
> where I could find out exactly how much Israel and the world Jewish 
> community is getting from Germany in exchange for Germany's role in the 
> "Holocaust.")  I'm sure that you can provide some statistics on this.

I believe the current figure is not unadjacent to RM 20 billion, although
I'll have to check it.

> 	And could you explain exactly what sort of "Jewish crimes" 
> warranted the systematic extermination of Jewish men, women, and 
> children? In other words: why are Jews such a threat that they must be 
> dealt with by any means necessary?

I doubt it.  I could tell you that jews had been behind the First World
War, the Versailles Treaty, saddling Germany with massive reparations,
etc., and you'd just dismiss it with an impatient wave of your hand as the
tirade of an anti-semitic crank.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 06:57:13 PDT 1995
Article: 4470 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Andy's semantics (my provider keeps killing the subject on me)
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:       <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>    bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> And what is your definition of "good" science in the service of politics? 
> 
> There is no such thing.

I see.  But you have no problem defining "bad" science in the service of
politics, so you should be able to define "good" science, or at least
"not-bad" science, so used.
 
>> Logical thought processes are likely to be more important to one type of
>> culture than another.  What's wrong with determining that?
> 
> Nothing. As long as you realize that that's all you're testing.

I see again.  Science for the sake of science, right?  That's right up
there with government grants to study the mating habits of Peruvian toads.
 
>> Then again, they MAY measure how well that person will fare in the real
>> world.
> 
> So may a weightlifting contest, a spelling bee, or a contest to see who
> can change the distributor on a '64 Impala the fastest.

Not to worry, folks.  This is just the classic liberal defense of _reductio
ad absurdum_.

>> Innate ability to do what?
> 
> Innate ability to perform certain forms of reasoning. We've covered this.
> Measuring innate ability is the INTENT. How well the test meets that goal
> is the subject of much debate. As IQ changes throughout life, obviously,
> some component of what IQ tests measure is not genetic, but is shaped by
> environment.

Strange, how EVERY SINGLE TEST that determines intelligence is guilty of
the same thing, and guilty of it to exactly the same degree.  Gee, those
scientists who developed IQ tests sure were dumb!:-)

>> No, Andy:  scientific instruments exist so that scientists can verify or
>> disprove their suppositions.
> 
> Boy howdy, I hope that you're not a scientist. Instruments exist to record
> data, and to do so without passion, bias, or error. They don't always do
> that, but that's the idea. The data thus collected is used to prove or
> disprove a hypothesis. N.B.: a hypothesis is not the same thing as a
> supposition.

Sorry, Andy, you're wrong there.  A hypothesis IS a supposition, based on
incomplete evidence.  When a scientist has an irrational attachment to a
given hypothesis, though, and repeatedly disregards what his instruments
tell him, THEN he's guilty of bad science.

>> But people don't get steamed at polls the way they get steamed at debates
>> about race and IQ.
> 
> Opinion polls are avowedly opinion. They don't claim to be immutable fact.

Neither do IQ tests, nor do their testers.  However, they ARE supportive
of what OTHER branches of science also tell us (history, anthropolgy,
etc.)  Gee, it sounds like I've already said this - you can't be
stubbornly refusing to listen to what I say, can you?
 
>> Andy, science is amoral.  What we do with it is determined by our morality.
> 
> Science should be amoral, but scientists are human, and are sometimes
> motivated by factors other than pure inquiry.

Indeed some of them are.  The vast majority, however, aren't.

> They pervert science for political or persoanl gain. That I consider immoral.

Again, some do, some don't.  Neat how you eliminated the disqualifier of
"some" from your slam.

>> I define as "immoral" any attempt to supress a given area of research with
>> hysteria, spitting, name-calling, and all the other tools regularly
>> employed by equalitarians.
> 
> I have seen no such effort to suppress inquiry--only vehement disagreement
> with the methods employed. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the
> kitchen.

Really, Andy?  Then clean the shit out of your eyes.

Professor Arthur Jensen has been repeatedly threatened physically.  Any
scientist who MENTIONS race and IQ in the same breath is threatened with
financial retribution (Phillipe Rushton comes to mind - he's the guy who
supposedly postulated the Black-White-Asian scale).
  
Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 06:57:26 PDT 1995
Article: 4484 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: More Andy...
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:      <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>    <
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 22:16:58 GMT
Lines: 125
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3512 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4484

D82349.5F9@freenet.carleton.ca>  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> You're a scream.  However, we aren't talking about seismographs, we're
>> talking about IQs and IQ tests, and you ARE rabidly opposed to them.  This
>> message is the FIRST time you've admitted that they have ANY use, and that
>> only because you have no alternative if you want to be taken at all
>> seriously.
> 
> Only becuase it's the first time the question was asked. I never said that
> IQ tests have no use, only that some people try to use them for a purpose
> for which they are not applicable. I am not rabidly opposed to IQ tests,
> but I am rabidly opposed to misuse of any scientific instrument to further
> a sociopolitical agenda. Bad science in the service of politics is the
> most insidious sort of bad science.

And what is your definition of "good" science in the service of politics? 
Anything that doesn't interfere with your "we are the world" fantasy?

>> Big words, Andy.  However, my response is the same as I've said before: 
>> our society (culture, if you will) doesn't CARE about how well a Black can
>> chuck a spear, or a Greenlander build an igloo.  It DOES care about how
>> well Blacks and Greenlanders can adapt to a high-tech civilization (which
>> they've never created on their own, I might add.)
> 
> IQ tests have nothing to do with "a high-tech civilization." They measure
> mastery of certain cognitive skills and logical thought processes.

Hoo, boy, Andy...

Logical thought processes are likely to be more important to one type of
culture than another.  What's wrong with determining that?


> If anything, they measure how well the test-taker will do in school, not
> necessarity how well that person will fare in the real world.

Then again, they MAY measure how well that person will fare in the real
world.

That's one of the things that cracks me up about people like you (and
there are many):  you refuse to understand that the way you WISH things
were is not necessarily how they REALLY ARE.

> Nothing on an IQ test measures knowledge of, or adaptibility to, any sort
> of technological change. IQ stands for Intelligence Quotient, the
> subject's mental age divided by chronological age.

So what's your beef?  If IQ tests repeatedly reveal that group A has a
lower IQ than group B, it just means that their mental age is lower.  Why
the hissy-fits?

> It is intended to be
> completely independent of specific skills or acquired knowledge, and to
> measure the innate ability of the subject.

Innate ability to do what?
 
>> The IQ tests CONFIRM what we can OBSERVE.  In THAT manner, they are UNLIKE
>> political campaigns.
> 
> There's the crux of your problem. Scientific instruments, whether the
> needle-on-a-gauge type or the #2-pencil-on-paper type, exist to gather
> data, not to support the suppositions the scientist brings into the test.
> That is why there is so much importance placed on double-blind testing and
> peer review.

No, Andy:  scientific instruments exist so that scientists can verify or
disprove their suppositions.

> The political campaign example was illustrative of my point--take a small
> amount of data, extrapolate it through your own presuppositions, and draw
> broad conclusions. It's bad science. It's not even good enough to pass
> muster under the looser standards of the social sciences.

But people don't get steamed at polls the way they get steamed at debates
about race and IQ.

>> IQ tests are not used to follow the stock market, either.  They ARE used
>> to determine an individual's (and a group's) suitability to live in a
>> high-tech environment, 
> 
> They are used that way. That use is inappropriate. Precisely my point. You
> emphasis on "high-tech environment" weakens your case, as IQ tests do not
> test high-tech skills, knowledge, or aptitude.

Right!  As I said, though, IQ tests are ONE indicator of what a race has
in it.  When that is COMBINED with other things (such as historical
studies, anthropology, etc.) and the results support each other, what does
an intelligent man do?  He sure doesn't shoot the messenger.

>> and if scientists were allowed to MAKE their
>> studies without the Politically Correct twaddle of people like you, who
>> impose morality on facts, and draw the logical conclusions from their
>> studies, most of your arguments would evaporate like water on a Bunsen burner.
> 
> I consider bad science, sloppy science, and pseudo-science to support a
> sociopolitical agenda to be immoral. That is the only moral stance I have
> taken in this thread.

Andy, science is amoral.  What we do with it is determined by our morality.

I define as "immoral" any attempt to supress a given area of research with
hysteria, spitting, name-calling, and all the other tools regularly
employed by equalitarians.

> There may be a means to test a person's overall ability to contribute to a
> given society. IQ tests aren't it. They measure too few of a great number
> of variables. Trying to use the aggregate as an indicator of a group's
> potential for success only magnifies their inadequacies.

IQ tests don't create the inadequacies, however.  They simply reveal them.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 19:12:38 PDT 1995
Article: 21157 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism? 
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3ogflo$24r@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>   
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:16:43 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21157 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4468 alt.politics.white-power:3501

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
>>"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
>>trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
>>implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.
> 
> 	I suppose I could ask where you got that idea, but I doubt it 
> would help.

Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.

> In any event, I think most Exterminationists believe that there were quite a 
> few guilty parties involved.  Eichmann was certainly responsible for fair 
> share of the Holocaust, as was Goebbels and a few others.  And nobody ever 
> said that Mengele was a mindless puppet.

That's true.  When it comes time to naming names, THEN the claim of
Hitler's sole responsibiltiy disappears faster than a bride's nightie. 
Too, since Israel can't try Hitler, they gotta blame SOMEONE.

> 	What kind of massive reparations is Germany currently paying? 
> (I'm not saying that they are or that they aren't: I'm just curious as to 
> where I could find out exactly how much Israel and the world Jewish 
> community is getting from Germany in exchange for Germany's role in the 
> "Holocaust.")  I'm sure that you can provide some statistics on this.

I believe the current figure is not unadjacent to RM 20 billion, although
I'll have to check it.

> 	And could you explain exactly what sort of "Jewish crimes" 
> warranted the systematic extermination of Jewish men, women, and 
> children? In other words: why are Jews such a threat that they must be 
> dealt with by any means necessary?

I doubt it.  I could tell you that jews had been behind the First World
War, the Versailles Treaty, saddling Germany with massive reparations,
etc., and you'd just dismiss it with an impatient wave of your hand as the
tirade of an anti-semitic crank.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 19:40:26 PDT 1995
Article: 21157 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism? 
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3ogflo$24r@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>   
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 11:16:43 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21157 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4468 alt.politics.white-power:3501

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Really?  Gee, then why are Exterminationists always going on about how
>>"Hitler this the Holocaust" and "Hitler that the Holocaust".  They ARE
>>trying to lay full and sole responsibility for the "Holocaust" on Hitler,
>>implying that every other Nazi was just a mindless puppet.
> 
> 	I suppose I could ask where you got that idea, but I doubt it 
> would help.

Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.

> In any event, I think most Exterminationists believe that there were quite a 
> few guilty parties involved.  Eichmann was certainly responsible for fair 
> share of the Holocaust, as was Goebbels and a few others.  And nobody ever 
> said that Mengele was a mindless puppet.

That's true.  When it comes time to naming names, THEN the claim of
Hitler's sole responsibiltiy disappears faster than a bride's nightie. 
Too, since Israel can't try Hitler, they gotta blame SOMEONE.

> 	What kind of massive reparations is Germany currently paying? 
> (I'm not saying that they are or that they aren't: I'm just curious as to 
> where I could find out exactly how much Israel and the world Jewish 
> community is getting from Germany in exchange for Germany's role in the 
> "Holocaust.")  I'm sure that you can provide some statistics on this.

I believe the current figure is not unadjacent to RM 20 billion, although
I'll have to check it.

> 	And could you explain exactly what sort of "Jewish crimes" 
> warranted the systematic extermination of Jewish men, women, and 
> children? In other words: why are Jews such a threat that they must be 
> dealt with by any means necessary?

I doubt it.  I could tell you that jews had been behind the First World
War, the Versailles Treaty, saddling Germany with massive reparations,
etc., and you'd just dismiss it with an impatient wave of your hand as the
tirade of an anti-semitic crank.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 19:55:31 PDT 1995
Article: 21193 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3obvvv$276@student.anu.edu.au>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com> 
Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 13:09:25 GMT
Lines: 22
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.skinheads:15017 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4507 alt.discrimination:23060 alt.revisionism:21193

In a previous posting, Alex (t3009038@student.anu.edu.au) writes:

(snip)

> By the way, I'm not Jewish, but Austrian.  Yes, I am from the country that brought
> about Hitler, that greatest abomination of our century, who was probably half-
> Jewish himself.

This one always cracks me up.  Follow it through, here, Alex ole buddy: 
Hitler was half Jewish.  Hitler orchestrated the "Holocaust".  Therefore,
a half-Jew marched his fellows off to the gas chambers.  Therefore,
Germany should foot NONE of the guilt for the "Holocaust".

Les




--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 20:19:59 PDT 1995
Article: 4470 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Andy's semantics (my provider keeps killing the subject on me)
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:       <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>    bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> And what is your definition of "good" science in the service of politics? 
> 
> There is no such thing.

I see.  But you have no problem defining "bad" science in the service of
politics, so you should be able to define "good" science, or at least
"not-bad" science, so used.
 
>> Logical thought processes are likely to be more important to one type of
>> culture than another.  What's wrong with determining that?
> 
> Nothing. As long as you realize that that's all you're testing.

I see again.  Science for the sake of science, right?  That's right up
there with government grants to study the mating habits of Peruvian toads.
 
>> Then again, they MAY measure how well that person will fare in the real
>> world.
> 
> So may a weightlifting contest, a spelling bee, or a contest to see who
> can change the distributor on a '64 Impala the fastest.

Not to worry, folks.  This is just the classic liberal defense of _reductio
ad absurdum_.

>> Innate ability to do what?
> 
> Innate ability to perform certain forms of reasoning. We've covered this.
> Measuring innate ability is the INTENT. How well the test meets that goal
> is the subject of much debate. As IQ changes throughout life, obviously,
> some component of what IQ tests measure is not genetic, but is shaped by
> environment.

Strange, how EVERY SINGLE TEST that determines intelligence is guilty of
the same thing, and guilty of it to exactly the same degree.  Gee, those
scientists who developed IQ tests sure were dumb!:-)

>> No, Andy:  scientific instruments exist so that scientists can verify or
>> disprove their suppositions.
> 
> Boy howdy, I hope that you're not a scientist. Instruments exist to record
> data, and to do so without passion, bias, or error. They don't always do
> that, but that's the idea. The data thus collected is used to prove or
> disprove a hypothesis. N.B.: a hypothesis is not the same thing as a
> supposition.

Sorry, Andy, you're wrong there.  A hypothesis IS a supposition, based on
incomplete evidence.  When a scientist has an irrational attachment to a
given hypothesis, though, and repeatedly disregards what his instruments
tell him, THEN he's guilty of bad science.

>> But people don't get steamed at polls the way they get steamed at debates
>> about race and IQ.
> 
> Opinion polls are avowedly opinion. They don't claim to be immutable fact.

Neither do IQ tests, nor do their testers.  However, they ARE supportive
of what OTHER branches of science also tell us (history, anthropolgy,
etc.)  Gee, it sounds like I've already said this - you can't be
stubbornly refusing to listen to what I say, can you?
 
>> Andy, science is amoral.  What we do with it is determined by our morality.
> 
> Science should be amoral, but scientists are human, and are sometimes
> motivated by factors other than pure inquiry.

Indeed some of them are.  The vast majority, however, aren't.

> They pervert science for political or persoanl gain. That I consider immoral.

Again, some do, some don't.  Neat how you eliminated the disqualifier of
"some" from your slam.

>> I define as "immoral" any attempt to supress a given area of research with
>> hysteria, spitting, name-calling, and all the other tools regularly
>> employed by equalitarians.
> 
> I have seen no such effort to suppress inquiry--only vehement disagreement
> with the methods employed. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the
> kitchen.

Really, Andy?  Then clean the shit out of your eyes.

Professor Arthur Jensen has been repeatedly threatened physically.  Any
scientist who MENTIONS race and IQ in the same breath is threatened with
financial retribution (Phillipe Rushton comes to mind - he's the guy who
supposedly postulated the Black-White-Asian scale).
  
Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May  8 20:20:12 PDT 1995
Article: 4484 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: More Andy...
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:      <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>    <
Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 22:16:58 GMT
Lines: 125
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3512 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4484

D82349.5F9@freenet.carleton.ca>  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> You're a scream.  However, we aren't talking about seismographs, we're
>> talking about IQs and IQ tests, and you ARE rabidly opposed to them.  This
>> message is the FIRST time you've admitted that they have ANY use, and that
>> only because you have no alternative if you want to be taken at all
>> seriously.
> 
> Only becuase it's the first time the question was asked. I never said that
> IQ tests have no use, only that some people try to use them for a purpose
> for which they are not applicable. I am not rabidly opposed to IQ tests,
> but I am rabidly opposed to misuse of any scientific instrument to further
> a sociopolitical agenda. Bad science in the service of politics is the
> most insidious sort of bad science.

And what is your definition of "good" science in the service of politics? 
Anything that doesn't interfere with your "we are the world" fantasy?

>> Big words, Andy.  However, my response is the same as I've said before: 
>> our society (culture, if you will) doesn't CARE about how well a Black can
>> chuck a spear, or a Greenlander build an igloo.  It DOES care about how
>> well Blacks and Greenlanders can adapt to a high-tech civilization (which
>> they've never created on their own, I might add.)
> 
> IQ tests have nothing to do with "a high-tech civilization." They measure
> mastery of certain cognitive skills and logical thought processes.

Hoo, boy, Andy...

Logical thought processes are likely to be more important to one type of
culture than another.  What's wrong with determining that?


> If anything, they measure how well the test-taker will do in school, not
> necessarity how well that person will fare in the real world.

Then again, they MAY measure how well that person will fare in the real
world.

That's one of the things that cracks me up about people like you (and
there are many):  you refuse to understand that the way you WISH things
were is not necessarily how they REALLY ARE.

> Nothing on an IQ test measures knowledge of, or adaptibility to, any sort
> of technological change. IQ stands for Intelligence Quotient, the
> subject's mental age divided by chronological age.

So what's your beef?  If IQ tests repeatedly reveal that group A has a
lower IQ than group B, it just means that their mental age is lower.  Why
the hissy-fits?

> It is intended to be
> completely independent of specific skills or acquired knowledge, and to
> measure the innate ability of the subject.

Innate ability to do what?
 
>> The IQ tests CONFIRM what we can OBSERVE.  In THAT manner, they are UNLIKE
>> political campaigns.
> 
> There's the crux of your problem. Scientific instruments, whether the
> needle-on-a-gauge type or the #2-pencil-on-paper type, exist to gather
> data, not to support the suppositions the scientist brings into the test.
> That is why there is so much importance placed on double-blind testing and
> peer review.

No, Andy:  scientific instruments exist so that scientists can verify or
disprove their suppositions.

> The political campaign example was illustrative of my point--take a small
> amount of data, extrapolate it through your own presuppositions, and draw
> broad conclusions. It's bad science. It's not even good enough to pass
> muster under the looser standards of the social sciences.

But people don't get steamed at polls the way they get steamed at debates
about race and IQ.

>> IQ tests are not used to follow the stock market, either.  They ARE used
>> to determine an individual's (and a group's) suitability to live in a
>> high-tech environment, 
> 
> They are used that way. That use is inappropriate. Precisely my point. You
> emphasis on "high-tech environment" weakens your case, as IQ tests do not
> test high-tech skills, knowledge, or aptitude.

Right!  As I said, though, IQ tests are ONE indicator of what a race has
in it.  When that is COMBINED with other things (such as historical
studies, anthropology, etc.) and the results support each other, what does
an intelligent man do?  He sure doesn't shoot the messenger.

>> and if scientists were allowed to MAKE their
>> studies without the Politically Correct twaddle of people like you, who
>> impose morality on facts, and draw the logical conclusions from their
>> studies, most of your arguments would evaporate like water on a Bunsen burner.
> 
> I consider bad science, sloppy science, and pseudo-science to support a
> sociopolitical agenda to be immoral. That is the only moral stance I have
> taken in this thread.

Andy, science is amoral.  What we do with it is determined by our morality.

I define as "immoral" any attempt to supress a given area of research with
hysteria, spitting, name-calling, and all the other tools regularly
employed by equalitarians.

> There may be a means to test a person's overall ability to contribute to a
> given society. IQ tests aren't it. They measure too few of a great number
> of variables. Trying to use the aggregate as an indicator of a group's
> potential for success only magnifies their inadequacies.

IQ tests don't create the inadequacies, however.  They simply reveal them.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May  9 06:01:51 PDT 1995
Article: 21199 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3oj4t8$97c@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3ogmit$igu@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com> <3odt2n$ggo@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com> <3obvvv$276@student.anu.edu.au>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>  
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 13:10:27 GMT
Lines: 31
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.discrimination:23067 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4515 alt.revisionism:21199

In a previous posting, Lane Singer (lsd@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> In  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les
> Griswold) writes: 

>>> I wish you could have
>>> like my father after he got out of the German Army, 
>>>spend months disposing of bodies.

>>Really?  Where was he put to work?  Dresden?  Dachau?  Anyplace 
>>that the Red Army slaughtered and raped its way across the 
>>defeated and helpless Germany?  On the battlefields where 
>>General "I want to kill Germans" Patton led his Red Ball Express?

> My father was a lieutenant in the US army. He opened camps, and
> saw. There was no Red Army there - this was in the west. This
> wasn't on the battlefield. These were concentration camps.

Uh, oh, Lane, you're starting to reveal one of the essential obfuscations
of Exterminationism:  the deliberate confusion of the term "concentration
camp" with (supposed) "extermination camps".  If I remember my "Holocaust"
mythology correctly, there were NO supposed "extermination camps" in
Germany proper; the legends put them in Poland, and behind the former Iron
Curtain.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May  9 06:01:56 PDT 1995
Article: 21202 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:     
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 19:36:19 GMT
Lines: 83
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3579 alt.revisionism:21202 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4524 alt.discrimination:23068

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>> 	I suppose I could ask where you got that idea, but I doubt it 
>>> would help.
>>
>>Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
>>awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
>>Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
>>some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.
> 
> 	And European Gypsies... and homosexuals... and Slavs... and 
> Jehovah's Witnesses... etc., etc. 

Gee, Kevin, you're providing the PERFECT example of a boob.  All those
other groups are only ever mentioned when someone starts getting very
specific in one's questioning.  Otherwise, it's assumed that "Holocaust"
refers to "six million jews".

> 	In any event: can you refute the documentation compiled by 
> Mc(Oy)Vay and others... the documentation which suggests that there _was_ 
> a policy by the National Socialists (a policy endorsed by Hitler, and put 
> into motion by various of his underlings) to wipe out European Jewry and 
> anyone else whom the Nazis considered unfit?

Ken McOyVay is a joke anyway.

>>> 	What kind of massive reparations is Germany currently paying? 
>>> (I'm not saying that they are or that they aren't: I'm just curious as to 
>>> where I could find out exactly how much Israel and the world Jewish 
>>> community is getting from Germany in exchange for Germany's role in the 
>>> "Holocaust.")  I'm sure that you can provide some statistics on this.
>>
>>I believe the current figure is not unadjacent to RM 20 billion, although
>>I'll have to check it.
> 
> 	Please do.  I would be interested in seeing this.
> 
>>> 	And could you explain exactly what sort of "Jewish crimes" 
>>> warranted the systematic extermination of Jewish men, women, and 
>>> children? In other words: why are Jews such a threat that they must be 
>>> dealt with by any means necessary?
>>
>>I doubt it.  I could tell you that jews had been behind the First World
>>War, the Versailles Treaty, saddling Germany with massive reparations,
>>etc., and you'd just dismiss it with an impatient wave of your hand as the
>>tirade of an anti-semitic crank.
> 
> 	No.  I'd just ask _how_ you came to the conclusion that the Jews 
> had been behind the First World War, etc.

Gee, Kevin, I'd tell you, for one, about Henry Ford's remarks while going
to Europe on the peace ship, where he reports that two jews told him about
having 1) instigated The Great War, and 2) how World Jewry would keep it
going until it suited them to end it.  Of course, you'd start to mutter
about Henry Ford having said something to the effect of "History is
bunk.", as if that settled the whole matter.

> And I'd ask if this was _all_ Jews, or just a certain group of Jews.  And, if 
> it was the former, then I'd ask for some details on how you feel this 
> organized Jewish conspiracy rules the world.
>
> 	If you were unwilling or unable to provide answers to that, THEN 
> I would dismiss your claims as the tirade of an anti-semitic crank.

And I'm sure you just can't wait for me not to answer you so you can go
ahead and do it anyway, right?

It's rather long, but to shorten it, organized jewry does indeed comprise
only a small part of jewry in total.  However, since any jew can depend on
any other jew to help him, it's not necessary to have everyone "in on it",
as it were.  By using this method, the MOSSAD has a large pool of
auxiliaries in any and every country.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bzs@world.std.com Tue May  9 06:02:01 PDT 1995
Article: 21205 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Sun, 7 May 1995 19:36:19 GMT
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	 
	 
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 00:33:43 GMT
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>>>Gee, only when some really naive boob tries to tell us tha "we're" so
>>>awful for not thinking Hitler was a monster who exhaled green vapour. 
>>>Heck, don't we KNOW what he did, or tried to do, to European jewry?  Then
>>>some self-proclaimed expert tries to lend support to their screaming mimmies.
>> 
>> 	And European Gypsies... and homosexuals... and Slavs... and 
>> Jehovah's Witnesses... etc., etc. 
>
>Gee, Kevin, you're providing the PERFECT example of a boob.  All those
>other groups are only ever mentioned when someone starts getting very
>specific in one's questioning.  Otherwise, it's assumed that "Holocaust"
>refers to "six million jews".

Even if one was to grant that "The Holocaust" is often used as a term
to refer to the demis of the Jews, and that's not far-fetched as an
interpretation of usage, that still doesn't change the facts. It's
just an impression of modern times.

The underlying question is if, as you claim, Hitler's reason for
killing all those Jews was because of their death-grip on Germany then
why did he also kill over one million Gypsies, Seventh Day Adventists,
etc? Did they all have a death-grip on Germany?

And what about the T4 programs where the Nazis were killing children
who they believed were defective?

Did those children also have a death-grip on Germany?

Or are you changing the subject?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May  9 06:02:06 PDT 1995
Article: 21209 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:     
Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 13:23:05 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.discrimination:23074 alt.revisionism:21209 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4533 alt.politics.white-power:3592

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:

>>Ken McOyVay is a joke anyway.
> 
> 	Fair enough.  Then if he is a "joke," you should have no problem 
> refuting the evidence he presents to support his case.  I consider Tim 
> McCarthy a joke, for instance, and have had no problem shooting through 
> his claims.  It should be no problem for you to do the same here.

It's a mystery to me WHY you people think that everyone should hold the
same morality as you do.

> 
> 	No... I'd just ask which source you got this from.  I am aware 
> that Henry Ford was a pretty rabid anti-Semite for at least part of his 
> life.  I've not yet read his book on "International Jewry" but shall 
> certainly endeavor to do so at the earliest opportunity.

_Which Way Western Man?_.  I believe that it was an excerpt from _The
International Jew_.

> 	One question I would have is this: _why_ did these Jews tell 
> Henry Ford about their plans? Seems like a stupid thing to do, telling a 
> Goy about your plans to rule the world.  

Who knows for sure what reason or reasons they had?  Maybe their
brazenness (chutzpah, if you will - thank the Yids for their colourful
additions to our language!) got the better of them, and they wanted to
gloat about it.  Or maybe they were so certain of their control of
destiny, that they felt that it didn't matter whether they told a mere "goy".
 
> 	So you are saying, then, that this "network" is such that an 
> appropriate way of dealing with it would be the extermination of the Jews 
> as a people? If not, how _would_ you deal with it.  

Probably in much the same way that Hitler REALLY dealt with it, and not
the way the jews TELL everyone he dealt with it:  by barring jews from
becoming citizens, and encouraging them to emigrate away from wherever
the White race is.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May  9 16:13:26 PDT 1995
Article: 21230 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Reparations...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 10:16:55 GMT
Lines: 17
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21230 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4541 alt.politics.white-power:3605 alt.discrimination:23107

Just a little something for you people who sneer at the mention of
"reparations":

In the London _Jewish Chronicle_ of Nov. 7, 1975, it was stated that West
Germany had paid out over 19 BILLION dollars "in reparations for Nazi
wrongs", and that the total cost of reparations is expected to be
approximately 33 billion dollars.

Now, you people who sneer about how "Germany isn't paying reparations
anymore", want to read that and then say it again?

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May  9 16:13:28 PDT 1995
Article: 21231 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-Semitism?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3omo3s$boh@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <3oj4t8$97c@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3ogmit$igu@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com> <3odt2n$ggo@pipe4.nyc.pipeline.com> <3obvvv$276@student.anu.edu.au>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com>   
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 10:34:21 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4542 alt.discrimination:23109 alt.revisionism:21231

In a previous posting, Lane Singer (lsd@ix.netcom.com) writes:

(snip)

> Then you didn't learn your lessons very well.

Cheap shot.  How can one learn the ins and outs of an inherently
self-contradictory story like the "Holocaust"?

> By the end of the war, there were gas chambers in Ravensbruck, just north of
> Berlin, and there were enormous crematoria in Dachau and many
> others. You know, those crematoria engineered just for the purpose
> of disposing of thousands of bodies a day.

Have you checked with Ken McOyVay to see if it's okay to say this?

> Besides, to starve people to death is a form of extermination.

But... but Lane, the story says that they were GASSED, not starved.  6
million were GASSED (supposedly).

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May  9 23:27:45 PDT 1995
Article: 4525 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Hey, Andy (my provider did it again!)
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:        <3o3f3l$l7u@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  <3neslu$p39@giant.seas.smu.edu>  <3nkcfh$694@news2.delphi.com> 
Date: Sun, 7 May 1995 19:48:46 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3580 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4525

  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

(snip)

>> I see again.  Science for the sake of science, right?  That's right up
>> there with government grants to study the mating habits of Peruvian toads.
> 
> So the government should only fund scientific study that proves your prejudices?

There ARE some "scientific" endeavours that we could do quite nicely
without.

(snip)

>> Strange, how EVERY SINGLE TEST that determines intelligence is guilty of
>> the same thing, and guilty of it to exactly the same degree.  Gee, those
>> scientists who developed IQ tests sure were dumb!:-)
> 
> No, they are guilty of devising a specific test to measure a specific
> skill, which it does fairly well. The idiocy creeps in when others use the
> data thus generated to draw overbroad conclusions.

BZZT!  Wrong again!  Now you're suggesting that "others" are misusing the
results of otherwise valid tests.  When we started out, you were slamming
the tests THEMSELVES as useless.

(snip)

>> > Opinion polls are avowedly opinion. They don't claim to be immutable fact.
>> 
>> Neither do IQ tests, nor do their testers.  However, they ARE supportive
>> of what OTHER branches of science also tell us (history, anthropolgy,
>> etc.)  Gee, it sounds like I've already said this - you can't be
>> stubbornly refusing to listen to what I say, can you?
> 
> You've proven that a sloppy survey of IQ tests supports a shallow reading
> of history and a skewed view of anthropology, leading to an overall
> world-view based on a shaky foundation.

What's shallow about the observation that Blacks in Africa have
accomplished NOTHING of substance in six thousand years of recorded
history?  One doesn't need a doctorate in history to realize that, but it
certainly isn't shallow to come to that (correct) conclusion.

(snip)

>> Professor Arthur Jensen has been repeatedly threatened physically.
> 
> So have I. So have you. So have Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. So were
> George Wallace and Martin Luther King. That does not equate to or provide
> evidence of an organized effort to suppress his work. In any sufficiently
> broad public argument, someone will be unable to express disagreement
> cogently, and will resort to threats of violence.

Strangely, though, the threats are 1) constant, 2) happen to a LOT of
physical anthropologists who are trying to present the "nature" side of
the argument, 3) is not restricted to a few "someones" who haven't the
oratorical skill to present their arguments.  Geez, Andy, are you really
that naive?
  
>> Any scientist who MENTIONS race and IQ in the same breath is threatened with
>> financial retribution (Phillipe Rushton comes to mind - he's the guy who
>> supposedly postulated the Black-White-Asian scale).
> 
> What sort of financial retribution? I'm not familiar with the case cited.

Well, the University of Western Ontario attempted to get him fired, due to
the controversy that his book stirred up.

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed May 10 00:25:14 PDT 1995
Article: 3512 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: More Andy...
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Date: Sat, 6 May 1995 22:16:58 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3512 alt.politics.nationalism.white:4484

D82349.5F9@freenet.carleton.ca>  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> You're a scream.  However, we aren't talking about seismographs, we're
>> talking about IQs and IQ tests, and you ARE rabidly opposed to them.  This
>> message is the FIRST time you've admitted that they have ANY use, and that
>> only because you have no alternative if you want to be taken at all
>> seriously.
> 
> Only becuase it's the first time the question was asked. I never said that
> IQ tests have no use, only that some people try to use them for a purpose
> for which they are not applicable. I am not rabidly opposed to IQ tests,
> but I am rabidly opposed to misuse of any scientific instrument to further
> a sociopolitical agenda. Bad science in the service of politics is the
> most insidious sort of bad science.

And what is your definition of "good" science in the service of politics? 
Anything that doesn't interfere with your "we are the world" fantasy?

>> Big words, Andy.  However, my response is the same as I've said before: 
>> our society (culture, if you will) doesn't CARE about how well a Black can
>> chuck a spear, or a Greenlander build an igloo.  It DOES care about how
>> well Blacks and Greenlanders can adapt to a high-tech civilization (which
>> they've never created on their own, I might add.)
> 
> IQ tests have nothing to do with "a high-tech civilization." They measure
> mastery of certain cognitive skills and logical thought processes.

Hoo, boy, Andy...

Logical thought processes are likely to be more important to one type of
culture than another.  What's wrong with determining that?


> If anything, they measure how well the test-taker will do in school, not
> necessarity how well that person will fare in the real world.

Then again, they MAY measure how well that person will fare in the real
world.

That's one of the things that cracks me up about people like you (and
there are many):  you refuse to understand that the way you WISH things
were is not necessarily how they REALLY ARE.

> Nothing on an IQ test measures knowledge of, or adaptibility to, any sort
> of technological change. IQ stands for Intelligence Quotient, the
> subject's mental age divided by chronological age.

So what's your beef?  If IQ tests repeatedly reveal that group A has a
lower IQ than group B, it just means that their mental age is lower.  Why
the hissy-fits?

> It is intended to be
> completely independent of specific skills or acquired knowledge, and to
> measure the innate ability of the subject.

Innate ability to do what?
 
>> The IQ tests CONFIRM what we can OBSERVE.  In THAT manner, they are UNLIKE
>> political campaigns.
> 
> There's the crux of your problem. Scientific instruments, whether the
> needle-on-a-gauge type or the #2-pencil-on-paper type, exist to gather
> data, not to support the suppositions the scientist brings into the test.
> That is why there is so much importance placed on double-blind testing and
> peer review.

No, Andy:  scientific instruments exist so that scientists can verify or
disprove their suppositions.

> The political campaign example was illustrative of my point--take a small
> amount of data, extrapolate it through your own presuppositions, and draw
> broad conclusions. It's bad science. It's not even good enough to pass
> muster under the looser standards of the social sciences.

But people don't get steamed at polls the way they get steamed at debates
about race and IQ.

>> IQ tests are not used to follow the stock market, either.  They ARE used
>> to determine an individual's (and a group's) suitability to live in a
>> high-tech environment, 
> 
> They are used that way. That use is inappropriate. Precisely my point. You
> emphasis on "high-tech environment" weakens your case, as IQ tests do not
> test high-tech skills, knowledge, or aptitude.

Right!  As I said, though, IQ tests are ONE indicator of what a race has
in it.  When that is COMBINED with other things (such as historical
studies, anthropology, etc.) and the results support each other, what does
an intelligent man do?  He sure doesn't shoot the messenger.

>> and if scientists were allowed to MAKE their
>> studies without the Politically Correct twaddle of people like you, who
>> impose morality on facts, and draw the logical conclusions from their
>> studies, most of your arguments would evaporate like water on a Bunsen burner.
> 
> I consider bad science, sloppy science, and pseudo-science to support a
> sociopolitical agenda to be immoral. That is the only moral stance I have
> taken in this thread.

Andy, science is amoral.  What we do with it is determined by our morality.

I define as "immoral" any attempt to supress a given area of research with
hysteria, spitting, name-calling, and all the other tools regularly
employed by equalitarians.

> There may be a means to test a person's overall ability to contribute to a
> given society. IQ tests aren't it. They measure too few of a great number
> of variables. Trying to use the aggregate as an indicator of a group's
> potential for success only magnifies their inadequacies.

IQ tests don't create the inadequacies, however.  They simply reveal them.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed May 10 00:26:23 PDT 1995
Article: 3606 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Cowardly attack on Ernst Zundel
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 10:24:33 GMT
Lines: 35

In a previous posting, kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Geoff Lupton  wrote:
>>
>>Those leftists who have been screaming ad nauseum about the power
>>of the Right to inspire actions like those supposedly committed
>>by alleged suspect Tim McVeigh in Oklahoma City must now be held
>>to account for the cowardly attack on Ernst Zundel. Are there any
>>"progressives" out there with enough courage to admit their guilt
>>in this case, or will you simply discount the effect that your
>>intolerant attitude towards those deemed to be politically in-
>>correct has played in this affair? I won't hold my breath for any
>>demonstrations of integrity from those who wear their colours the
>>wrong way around, although a little consisitency might be in order
>>for a change.
> 
> 	I'm still finding out more about the fire at Zundel's house... if
> it was indeed arson by any kind of radical (Jewish, liberal, anti-racist,
> whatever) then I will be among the first to condemn it as a cowardly and 
> a stupid action.

Gee, Kevin, that's mighty White of you.  Strange, though, how "the Right"
was blamed as soon as possible (ie, once "radical Muslims" had been ruled
out).  And it's also nifty how the Michigan Militia keeps being mentioned
(guilt by association), even before any investigation is complete.

Due process for leftists, but we just KNOW right-wingers are scum, right?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 15:12:34 PDT 1995
Article: 4945 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.usa
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pg3g5$sa7@crl.crl.com> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>   <3pfusr$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 23:16:15 GMT
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Gary E. Grant (ggrant@crl.com) writes:
> In article <3pfusr$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>,
> Brian Bagnall  wrote:
>>Bill Anderson  wrote:
>>
>>>Because it's lunacy, Les.  The most productive nations in history--the
>>>ancient Egyptians, for instance, or the Greeks--were composed of mutts.
> 
>>That is a total falsehood.  Egypt was founded by mediteranian people
>>and went downhill when it assimilated with the black nubian slave
>>population.  Even at the height of it there were a tiny minority of
>>wealthy people and a huge populaton of have-nots.
>>
> Bagnall, you stupid ass, you have exactly anthropology exactly backwards.
> If you had an education you would know better.
> 
>  Ancient Egypt, ( both upper and lower) which was known at the time as 
> KEMET, was black african (Bantu), for as far back as records were kept. 
> Even back to predynastic egypt.
> 
> IE < 3000 BC. The Fourth Dynaty , approximately 2670 BC built the 
> great pyramid at Giza was composed of black africans. If you look at the 
> original statutes, those that survived with their noses intact ALL had 
> "african" features. Their black african civilization and language spread 
> over all of the african continent. The it spread to asia minor

Ho-hum, here we go again.  Those statues were of SLAVES, pallie.

> 
> In the timeframe of the 29th Dynasty ( the Ptolemy's) was the aristocracy 
> debased by intermarrigae with the macedonians etc. The last of the 
> Ptolomy's(cleopatra) was thought to be half macedonian.

It wasn't thought, bub.  It's known.  Anyway, whatever happened to the
claim that Cleopatra was Black?  Now, you guys aren't saying that anymore?
 
> The Greeks didnt invent many things that were attributed to them,many of  
> these ideas and inventions   were done by the universities at Memphis and 
> Luxor in Egypt. The great library at Alexandria contained over seven 
> hundred thousand books/scrolls of the learning at the time.

So whatever happened to all this knowledge (presumably of the Black race),
to reduce them to a nomadic lifestyle, like they were found in West
Africa?  Pretty amazing, that the race that (supposedly) designed the
pyramids (BUILT the pyramids is more like it) didn't even have a written
language when they were re-discovered in the 15th century.

Les
 


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 15:12:46 PDT 1995
Article: 4955 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.discrimination
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <3oa2df$9tp@agate.berkeley.edu> <3pah50$ma8@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> 
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 23:02:31 GMT
Lines: 45
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:4955 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:171914 alt.politics.correct:34454 alt.discrimination:23549

 (Tom_Menner@transarc.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
>> Charles Fiterman (cef@geodesic.com) writes:
>> 
>> > I come from a mixed family and have one myself. Coming from a variety
>> > of cultural backgrounds is a plus.
>> 
>> How would you know?  Do you have another, monocultural family with which
>> to compare?
> 
> We already have the evidence we need:  Charles sounds to me to be much
> more of a reasonable person than Les.
>
>> > I consider mixed an advantaged minority. My wife is Korean, my
>> > Korean nieces and nephews learn a lot from me and I learn a lot
>> > from them. 
>> 
>> That's good for you.  Not everyone, however, shares your desire to "learn
>> about differences" by marrying other races.
>> 
>> Mixing races destroys BOTH.  Why can't you see that?  Or, is it more of a
>> case of WON'T see it?
> 
> You talk as if destroying race is a bad thing.  But ah! I see you've
> betrayed yourself in your preceding statement:  "Not everyone...
> shares your desire to 'learn about differences'..."  Separate but
> equal, eh Les?

And your presumption is that "separate but equal" must necessarily be bad,
wrong, etc.?

> The onus is upon you, Mr Griswold, to demonstrate why destroying the 
> notion of race is undesirable. 

Well, no mixed-race ever accomplished anything of worth.  I should think
that should be obvious, but apparently it isn't.  Then again, you sound as
if you're in big-time reality denial, so I suppose I'd better strap myself
in for a deluge of "'Gyptians was MIXED, man!"

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 15:13:36 PDT 1995
Article: 5009 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.usa
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:44:02 GMT
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Stewart King (slking@fas.harvard.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> : Gary E. Grant (ggrant@crl.com) writes:
> 
> [snip]
> : > IE < 3000 BC. The Fourth Dynaty , approximately 2670 BC built the 
> : > great pyramid at Giza was composed of black africans. If you look at the 
> : > original statutes, those that survived with their noses intact ALL had 
> : > "african" features. [snip]
> 
> : Ho-hum, here we go again.  Those statues were of SLAVES, pallie.
> 
> What if they clearly *weren't* statues of slaves?  What if they were 
> dressed like pharaohs?  Do you either of you have anything to add here to 
> clear it up?  (Les, do you have anything at all, or are you just 
> speculating?  That's not bad per se, but it's important.)

"What if, what if, what if"?  Gee, I sure do find that liberal arguments
use that a lot (sorry, Stewie, but if the name fits...)

(snip)

> : Anyway, whatever happened to the claim that Cleopatra was Black?  Now, 
> : you guys aren't saying that anymore? 
> 
> Well, I for one never did.

Never said you did, Stew.  But it's pretty funny that the claim for
Cleopatra resembling a photo-negative of Claudia Schiffer has not been
bandied about of late.
 
> : So whatever happened to all this knowledge (presumably of the Black race),
> : to reduce them to a nomadic lifestyle, like they were found in West
> : Africa?  Pretty amazing, that the race that (supposedly) designed the
> : pyramids (BUILT the pyramids is more like it) didn't even have a written
> : language when they were re-discovered in the 15th century.
> 
> Being near the crossroads of the ancient world as they were, I'd say it's 
> NOT ALL THAT FAR-FETCHED that the Egyptians were substantially muttlike.  
> Just like everybody else, they picked up genes, technology and ideas here 
> and there from other people and put their own spin on it.  I think your 
> (Les) assertion elsewhere that "no mixed race has ever accomplished 
> anything worthwhile" (paraphrase) is pretty unsupportable.  Just *you* 
> try and knock those pyramids over.

And we know for certain (as opposed to your NOT ALL THAT FAR-FETCHED
postulation) that the Egyptians were a grab-bag lot of genetics, sorta
like the Mexicans today?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 15:13:39 PDT 1995
Article: 5010 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.usa
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Black Athena? (was: Re: Racial suicide)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:50:28 GMT
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Gary E. Grant (ggrant@crl.com) writes:
> In article <3pha0l$o0m@decaxp.harvard.edu>,
> Stewart King  wrote:
>>Gary E. Grant (ggrant@crl.com) wrote:
>>
>>: The Greeks didnt invent many things that were attributed to them,many of  
>>: these ideas and inventions   were done by the universities at Memphis and 
>>: Luxor in Egypt. The great library at Alexandria contained over seven 
>>: hundred thousand books/scrolls of the learning at the time.
>>
>>Actually, I was under the impression that it *was* the Greeks who were 
>>doing a lot of that stuff.  I mean, Alexandria was (by pure coincidence) 
>>founded by Alexander (the Great), who was extremely Macedonian.  He 
>>conquered Egypt and all that and built libraries and stuff.  I don't have 
>>any good references, but I did a paper on Roman coins a couple of weeks 
>>ago and seem to remember something like that.
>>
>>
>>
>>Oh, dear.  Have I just jumped in on the side of the white nationalists?  
>>Heavens.  Well, facts are facts.  If anyone has different ones, inform 
>>me.  Don't be afraid - if I was any more open-minded, I'd get dust in my 
>>brain and be sorry.
>>
>>
>>-Stewart King
>>bring me a shrubbery, laddie.
> 
> 
> If you want references for what I was discussing, I can give exact 
> references,
> Try "civilization or Barbarism, an authentic anthroplolgy" Dr. Cheik Anta 
> Diop, 1979, "Egypt Revisited" Dr. Ivan Van Sertima, "Black Athen" Dr. 
> Mathew Bernal".  If you want ISBN 
> numbers or a complete bibliography I can email that to you if interested.

I thought as much.  You really should stay in touch more, Gary, "Black
Athena" was shown to be a bunch of puffery in 1992.  Oh, well, at least we
know WHERE you get your loopy ideas.

> Gary :-) > 
> P.S. Just because you think that you are on the side of the WN does not 
> mean that your facts are correct.

And any "facts" that are anti-White, are, by definition, correct?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 15:13:46 PDT 1995
Article: 5014 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.usa
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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References: <3pfum1$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>   
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:28:41 GMT
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Brian Bagnall (umbagna0@cc.umanitoba.ca) writes:
> hexis@netcom.com (James C. Harrison) wrote:
> 
>>A question. You favor the biological separation of the races. Now
>>mainstream evolutionary thinking suggests that racial separation will
>>eventually result in speciation. Are you supporting the division of the
>>genus Homo in to two distinct species?

It's interesting that you say that.  In your world, are there only TWO
sorts of people, White and (presumably) Black?

> Les is talking a period of the next 100 to 1000 years into the future.  You
> are talking about hundreds of thousands of years, which no one today
> has a right to speculate on (because we just can't predict that far ahead).

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 15:13:48 PDT 1995
Article: 5015 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.usa
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:36:07 GMT
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James C. Harrison (hexis@netcom.com) writes:
> Brian Bagnall (umbagna0@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
> : hexis@netcom.com (James C. Harrison) wrote:
> 
> : >A question. You favor the biological separation of the races. Now
> : >mainstream evolutionary thinking suggests that racial separation will
> : >eventually result in speciation. Are you supporting the division of the
> : >genus Homo in to two distinct species?
> 
> : Les is talking a period of the next 100 to 1000 years into the future.  You
> : are talking about hundreds of thousands of years, which no one today
> : has a right to speculate on (because we just can't predict that far ahead).
> 
> Au contraire. Either the man wants us to speciate or he doesn't know what 
> he's talking about.

So?  You say "speciation" as if it's an evil concept.

> After all, by his racist logic, blacks will be even more inferior after a 
> thousand years of biological segregation. 

That's right.  The White race is NOT going to stand still while the Black
race catches up (according to Carleton S. Coon, they've got 200,000 years
to go).

> Just as money used to be backed by gold, racism is backed by genocide. 

Ooh!  Good one!  So is anti-(white) racism, fool.  Or do you somehow think
that breeding the White race out of existence doesn't constitute an
especially pernicious form of genocide?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 16:29:08 PDT 1995
Article: 5032 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.usa
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 23:04:43 GMT
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Ihab Mahna (ihab@bnr.ca) writes:
> HI,
> 
> I am Egyptian, and I lived in egypt for 30 years, 10 years in upper egypt and
> 20 years in Alexandria and cairo. The Greeks started to mix with the ancient
> egyptians culture in a very late stage after more than 4000 years, which was
> the weakest part of the ancient egyptian history. by that time All the wonders,
> sciences were already established. You may need to study a lot and visit egypt
> in order to understand how egyptians were far ahead of Greeks in every aspect
> of life.
> 
> Once you visit the Egyptian Museum in cairo and then you visit the Greek/Roman
> museum in Alexandria, you will understand what I mean. There is also some
> references to how the egyptians viewed the Greek. Try to refer to a trustable
> references (I think french references are).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Egypt were not built by Greeks (White).

That's truly bizarre.  I don't recall Brian (or ANYONE, for that matter)
EVER claiming that the Greeks ever BUILT Egyptian civilization.

> Egypt were not built by Central Africans (Blacks).

That's what we've been saying.

> Egypt were not built by slaves (?). 

Egypt WAS built by slaves.  Ancient Egypt was a slavocracy (slave-owning
state).  It was DESIGNED and DIRECTED by a group APART from the slaves.
 
> Egypt was built by a mix of people how had a common vision, a strong believe
> and faith whatever that was. 

This is the obligatory "Hell, I'm sitting on the fence on THIS one!"

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 16:29:13 PDT 1995
Article: 5034 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!doc.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Black Egyptians?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 22:52:23 GMT
Lines: 70
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Ida B. Wells (IBW@Spelman.edu) writes:
>  Egyptians likes to carve images of the enemies that they conquer
>> and of their slaves.  Two prominent groups of people were depicted over and
>> over with hands raised in service of the Egyptian magistrate with the nice
>> pointy beard and septer.  These two types of people can be described as an
>> Asiatic type with light skin, Persian (Iranian) and the other of dark,
>> black skin with characteristic curly afro.  Of course the ancient Egyptians
>> did not depict themselves with afros. Now, if many of the neo-African
>> Americans attach themselves to Egypt as their homeland, then they also
>> must've been slaves back in Egypt. Well, off to the next African culture to
>> find identity with.
>> 
>> -Scott
> 
>    While "Egyptians like to carve images of the enemies that they conquer
> and of their slaves" is true if you were to cite HISTORY you would
> remember that the caucasoid influence on egypt BEGAN with the conquests of
> Alexander (a caucasiod)  and Egypt and the remarkable pyramids and tombs
> constructions had long been ancient with Egyptians depicting themselves in
> THEIR pictures as blackest (with tightly curled beards and braids and
> standing nearset to Osiris- do you remember seeing that in Egypt I did)

Full-blooded negroes do not have beards.

B'sides, we've never SAID that the Egyptians were lily-white.  All we're
disputing is the silly claim that they were saucer-lipped negroids.  Don't
you understand the simple difference?

> and with a descending order of color from blackest to white, pale, bestial
> beings (no offense but at that time they were) in proximity to the god.

> Read Herodotus (a white historian), Champollion the elder (it is known
> that the "younger" disapproved of his ?uncle?'s scientific findings and so
> created theories to combat the definite meaning of those findings), the
> exploratory notes of Napoleon (Knock- knock why did he blow off the nose
> of the Sphinx? to remove its broad black (Negroid as y'all call it) nose,

Gee, you sound JUST LIKE professional victims of today - "they did it
'cause of RACISM!"  Has it never occurred to you that soldiers sometimes
do stupid things WITHOUT being motivated by racism?

> or the writings of Diop for a begginers list of my sources.  I hate when
> white people know that they can't factually claim something (yes at some
> point they did rule egypt but those times were not during the episodes of
> crafting and grandeur that still astound us today so please quit that

Yeah, like the Nubian Dynasty of the 8th-7th centuries B.C.  REAL
progressive times!

> argument- your own scholars ancient and modern know that I'm right beacuse
> that is where I got my information from)

Martin Bernal is NOT one of "our" scholars.

> and seek to muddle the issue by
> calling it "a very complex mixture of people, etc. that we have not
> completely figured out" or more aptly that they do not want to admit had
> nothing to do with them and they cannot figure out.  Not only that, I'm an
> Egyptologist writing my thesis on the Black creations of the civilization
> of Egypt so if anyone has some credible evidence to counter the
> information posed here I would appreciate hearing your take on what I have
> written. Until then I remain First of the Ethiopians.

And the Head of the Totally Out to Lunch Committee.

Les
--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 16:52:38 PDT 1995
Article: 3928 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Freddie on Nietzsche (gag me with a spoon!)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:      
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:51:18 GMT
Lines: 39

fred martenson (jfbgm2@cam.ac.uk) writes:

(snip)

>> >>You might also be interested to know that very few "anti-semites" are 100% 
>> >>Nietzschian.
>> 
>> >    good - if they had a a clue they would all be 0% Nietzschean. but since
>> > you don't want to expose your lies for what they are and give us your
>> > "evidence" of Nietzsche's supposed anti-Semitism, i guess we'll never
>> > know... all this is sounding awfully familiar.
>> 
>> 'Scuse me, Frederica, but WHERE, exactly, did ANY of us say that we base
>> our "anti-semitism" on Nietzsche?  Just because Rick K. had some rather
>> interesting quotes from ole Freddy himself, doesn't mean that anybody
>> lives, breathes, eats and sleeps Nietzsche.  Geez, you lefties must get
>> tired of tilting at windmills.
> 
> as you know very well, i wasn't saying you're all nietzscheans, just to
> leave him out of it. duh. and please don't call me a "leftie." it's so
> tired.

True, it IS getting old, but the label fits, so...

(snip)

> les, face it - this is getting old. 

Yeah, but I haven't found another interesting quote.  Maybe I'll put up
some Nietzsche, so you can freak out (I get the impression that it's the
only cardio-vascular workout you get).

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 16:52:41 PDT 1995
Article: 3929 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Kosher animal slaughtering...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3pa84h$e6u@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com> <3p848k$egp@marvin.scsn.net> 
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:54:08 GMT
Lines: 38

Joel Rosenberg (joelr@winternet.com) writes:
> In article  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
>>From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>>Subject: Re: Kosher animal slaughtering...
>>Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 21:26:42 GMT
> 
>>> -- 
>>> In fact, it is an ancient tradition intended to minimize the animal's
>>> suffering by avoiding the incredible pain caused by slicing through the
>>> sciatic nerve the way the gentiles did it in the old days. 
>>> But I don't think the sewer you boys were raised in was really fact-jammed,
>>> was it? 
> 
>>Excuse me?
> 
>>Trussing up an animal, then slitting its throat while it's fully conscious
>>(probably gargling in Hebrew, too) is intended to MINIMIZE the animal's
>>suffering?  Tell me, Donny, what colour's the sky in YOUR world?
> 
>>(BTW, the proper name for it is _Shechita_, although Jenny-poo'll probably
>>jump right in and correct my spelling, since I'm not fluent in kike.)
> 
>>Les
> 
> ... or have ever been around an animal who has been slaughtered, either by a 
> shochet or anybody else.  You ever see a cow slaughtered, asshole?  Ever get 
> your hands wet helping?  

No.  But this proves what, exactly?  That being in on the kill of some cow
makes it okay to torture them?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 16:52:59 PDT 1995
Article: 3966 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: President?  L'il ole me?  I'm touched!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:23:16 GMT
Lines: 12

(watch THAT title get some neat replies!)

But seriously, guys, we're ALL one notch above the scum that drifts in
here, we don't need to elevate one of our numbers to even higher status,
or at least not in public, where all the equalitarians can snort derisively.

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 16:53:01 PDT 1995
Article: 3967 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lester Griswold for President of the NG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pg5r5$c1g@news.umbc.edu> <3pfgpj$a9o@marvin.scsn.net>
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:24:45 GMT
Lines: 32

Sean Jordan (sjorda1@zeus.towson.edu) writes:
> David Padgett (davidp@scsn.net) wrote:
> : some of us got the idea from alt.fan.barry-manilow that we   
> : should elect a president for the ng.  we're in the middle   
> : of our campaigns right now on alt.manilow, and i'm thinking   
> : the wp people are going to win. 
> : but anyway, i think we should have an election here, and i   
> : nominate lester griswold for president. 
> : i think lester would make a good president and that he   
> : would take his duties seriously and do everything he could   
> : to advance the white race. 
> :  
> :  
> : david padgett, racial theorist
> 
> 
> I can understand why Les would make a good president, but you know the 
> "other people" on a.p.w-p would have a definite problem with that...
> 
> -*=Luckycharms=*-
>       a.k.a.
> sjorda1@zeus.towson.edu
> 
So screw 'em.  Who cares what a bunch of whining ninnies have problems with?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 17:58:49 PDT 1995
Article: 15571 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: FOREIGNERS GET OUT OF AMERICA
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pfopq$mph@agate.berkeley.edu> <3pevcg$28h@agate.berkeley.edu> <3pcta5$rcj@agate.berkeley.edu>  
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 23:24:07 GMT
Lines: 66

smurfy (smurfy@uclink2.berkeley.edu) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
>>None.  It's called "anthropological and archaeological research".
> 
> bonus points for polysyllabic word usage!  of course, they mean nothing 
> if you can't back it up.  now tell me about this research.  is it the 
> polygenesis or the monogenesis theory?  do you even know what i'm talking 
> about?  probably not.  back up your bold statements.

Oh, geez, are we gonna go for another bout of "Cavelli-Sforza!  Steven
Gould!"?
 
>>Our knowledge isn't limited to the last 5,000 or 6,000 years, tit.
> 
> oh but you were talking about a race of people that was stagnant since 
> 35,000 years ago.  as far as i know, pretty much the whole human race was 
> pretty stagnant in the civilization category at that point.

The point being, yob, that the injuns were STILL in the Stone Age when the
Iron Age Europeans got here.

>>> and i don't see how you could call a race like the aztecs
>>
>>Who practiced human sacrifice.
> 
> and hitler didn't???

Hoo, boy!  Hey, Lane, take note of the fact that this cherry brought up
Hitler, not I!

Booby, taking drastic measures in wartime is NOT the same thing as cutting
hearts out for religion.

>>And I've always harboured the belief that One-Worlders like you deny
>>facts, twist facts, and create facts to fit your little "brotherhood of
>>man" fantasy.  Thanks for proving ME right.
> 
> of course you're lumping me into your little one-worlder category.  you've 
> got me wrong.

I call 'em like I see 'em.

> i beleive that everyone should be allowed to fend for himself and not his 
> race.

I disagree with you.  So you're an individualist freak.

> it is white supremacists like you who proudly 
> stand behind the achievements of other white people because you can't do 
> anything significant on your own.  basically you're living vicariously 
> through the accomplishments of white people who are a lot smarter and 
> more hard-working than you because you lack these qualities.  so if you 
> actually were able to prove that whites are superior to all other races, 
> it wouldn't matter because you are still one of the stupidest white 
> people around.

You'd be surprised...

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 17:58:52 PDT 1995
Article: 15572 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: FOREIGNERS GET OUT OF AMERICA
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3pcta5$rcj@agate.berkeley.edu> 
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 23:30:37 GMT
Lines: 67


Steve  Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> You're too stupid to understand the difference between a miserable race
>> that stagnated in the Stone Age for AT LEAST 35,000 years, and a dynamic,
>> outreaching race.  Oh well.
>>
>> Les
> 
> Are you too stupid Les, to realize that only * SOME * Native Americans
> were in the stone age? No, its just that you like to stereotype. Native
> Americans such as the Mayas, Aztecs, and Incas were in a whole other stage
> developing agriculture, architecture, astronomy, an early writing system
> (the Mayas), calendars, astronomy, etc. 

And this really helped them, right?
 
> The Indians crossed over in stages and not all of them were here for
> 35,000 years.

So why, when they came here, did they STAY in the Stone Age, and yet the
Europeans who came here had ALREADY established themselves as THE most
technologically advanced race on earth?

> Besides Les, the white Nordic peoples did not invent writing
> or farming. It was introduced after being invented in the middle east.

Stuff and nonsense.  You've got a real love-on for "mediterraneans", Stevie.

> Math and algebra also came from elsewhere. It wasn't too long ago that the
> so called Aryans were barbarians. What do you have to say about that?

We've come so far so fast...

> What where they when Egypt ("Gyptions was black man!") were at their height?
> Yes, Les, even Christianity came out of the Middle East.

Oh boy!  THAT'S something to be proud of!

> You sure owe the
> Jews and Arabs a lot you know. (I think you hate them out of jealousy!).
> Remember that Civilization sprang up in only a few places in the world and
> from there was introduced to surrounding peoples. America was one of those
> places. So give the Indians a little more credit. 

Give the indians credit for WHAT?
 
> You never or at least you don't bother to present the whole story on
> anything Les.

And leftists do?

> When you respond to articles you don't bother to answer all
> the questions people ask of you. But of course that is your choice.

So what's your beef?  I thought you people were for freedom of choice.

Les



--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 18:00:10 PDT 1995
Article: 15655 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: FOREIGNERS GET OUT OF AMERICA
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pik9u$map@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3phtum$q2u@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 20:12:29 GMT
Lines: 82

GMMRec (gmmrec@aol.com) writes:
> Dear Les,
> 
>    I've never  responded to your comments before (like a flea bite you
> don't want to scratch), but some of the things that you have mentioned, make 
> me wonder as to WHAT is the criteria for being a human, or perhaps being on
> top of the human pyramid, as you see it?
>    If it is achievement, then how does one guage that?  Achievement is
> relative to temporality.  In other words,  if group X is more advanced in
> the 20th cen., what's to say that group Z won't be in the next century.

But then again, what's to say that group Z WILL be more advanced in the
21st century?  It makes infinitely more sense to base our decisions on
REALITY, instead of supposition.

> To give you some concrete examples.  By the end of the Roman Empire,  China
> already had a civilization that Europe wouldn't begin to match until the 
> middle of the 16th century.  Therefore, during the dark and middle ages, the 
> chinese were more advanced, hence being superior to europeans, if we use
> achievement as a principle of intrinsic worth.

So move to China, and see how welcome you are.  The Chines are (and were)
one of the most racist races on the planet.  But, I s'pose you'd rather
overlook that.
 
>     Another example of technically advanced civilization, relates to the
> discovery and use of iron and steel.  ( I know a bit about this as I am a
> blacksmith and specialize in historic preservation and restoration).  The
> earliest iron working traditions that we know of, start in Africa  (1500
> bc being the earliest found examples so far).  Indeed, the earliest known
> steel implement, an axe head, dates from 900bc, from Egypt.

I really wish you people would STOP using Egypt as an example of "Black"
achievements.  Of course, it just shows how bare reality is of Black
achievements, so I guess semantic games are about the only venue left open
to you.

> The science and methodology of producing iron and steel, is much more 
> difficult than extracting the non-ferrous metals, hence why the bronze age 
> starts almost 2000 years earlier.  Therefore, at that time, north-central
> Africa would have be the most advanced area, containing the most advanced 
> peoples.

Hint:  North-Central Africa is NOT the western coast of Africa, where most
of the Blacks in North America come from.

>     So right now (over the past 300 years), the europeans have held the
> lead (this is undeniably arguable).  Some would say we are in a decline.
> Personally, in regards to achievements, I believe that culturally, it is
> cyclical, like a relay race.  Some members on your team are slower than
> others.  Likewise for the other teams.

Race is not a team.  But nice homily.

>    Therefore using achievement as a scale to rate the worth of a race or
> culture, is relative, and hence invalid.  Likewise, I really don't believe
> that in the pure bloodline ideal.  Vikings for example, were historic
> traders.  Pick up the book _From Viking to Crusader_, pub. by Rizzoli's
> Books.  These guys went everywhere.  One of the finds, a burial, contained
> a buddha statue from 5thc. central asia (I'm sure they traded for it, and
> didn't make the entire trip there).

And your point is...?

Hell, someone else's garbage suddenly becomes VERY valuable when there
isn't a whole lot of it around.  The Vikings had the Buddha statue,
doubtless because they found it interesting (why are there no Zen Vikings
in history?)

> But the point is that contact, commerce, and multiculturalism has always been 
> a fact of life.

And these things are synonymous with miscegenation, race-mixing, and
lying back and letting others walk all over you?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 22 18:00:18 PDT 1995
Article: 15663 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Dion S., Pyramid 00, Cwil1 - who cares?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ph4pn$jrr@news.bu.edu> <3pcuij$pdj@news.bu.edu> <3p8aa1$oaq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3p7ham$9j0@nic.umass.edu>  
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:57:52 GMT
Lines: 21

Dion Samerson (samerson@bu.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote: SOMETHING DUMB
> 
> : by Pyramid 00 (or is that Cwil1)?
> 
> I almost forgot.  I just would like to know why you have this strong affinity
> for linking people together?  One day i'm Pyramid, the next day Pyramid is
> Cwil1, and i'm sure eventually you'll confuse him for one of yoour
> personalities(R.Kight perhaps).  By the way, i happen to know Cwil1.  And,
> you're barking up the wrong tree, but what's new.

And who cares?  After all, all three of you appear to be vying for the
biggest ass award.  It's really difficult to say who's ahead.

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 23 23:32:37 PDT 1995
Article: 3928 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Freddie on Nietzsche (gag me with a spoon!)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:      
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:51:18 GMT
Lines: 39

fred martenson (jfbgm2@cam.ac.uk) writes:

(snip)

>> >>You might also be interested to know that very few "anti-semites" are 100% 
>> >>Nietzschian.
>> 
>> >    good - if they had a a clue they would all be 0% Nietzschean. but since
>> > you don't want to expose your lies for what they are and give us your
>> > "evidence" of Nietzsche's supposed anti-Semitism, i guess we'll never
>> > know... all this is sounding awfully familiar.
>> 
>> 'Scuse me, Frederica, but WHERE, exactly, did ANY of us say that we base
>> our "anti-semitism" on Nietzsche?  Just because Rick K. had some rather
>> interesting quotes from ole Freddy himself, doesn't mean that anybody
>> lives, breathes, eats and sleeps Nietzsche.  Geez, you lefties must get
>> tired of tilting at windmills.
> 
> as you know very well, i wasn't saying you're all nietzscheans, just to
> leave him out of it. duh. and please don't call me a "leftie." it's so
> tired.

True, it IS getting old, but the label fits, so...

(snip)

> les, face it - this is getting old. 

Yeah, but I haven't found another interesting quote.  Maybe I'll put up
some Nietzsche, so you can freak out (I get the impression that it's the
only cardio-vascular workout you get).

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 23 23:32:39 PDT 1995
Article: 3929 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Kosher animal slaughtering...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3pa84h$e6u@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com> <3p848k$egp@marvin.scsn.net> 
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 22:54:08 GMT
Lines: 38

Joel Rosenberg (joelr@winternet.com) writes:
> In article  bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
>>From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>>Subject: Re: Kosher animal slaughtering...
>>Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 21:26:42 GMT
> 
>>> -- 
>>> In fact, it is an ancient tradition intended to minimize the animal's
>>> suffering by avoiding the incredible pain caused by slicing through the
>>> sciatic nerve the way the gentiles did it in the old days. 
>>> But I don't think the sewer you boys were raised in was really fact-jammed,
>>> was it? 
> 
>>Excuse me?
> 
>>Trussing up an animal, then slitting its throat while it's fully conscious
>>(probably gargling in Hebrew, too) is intended to MINIMIZE the animal's
>>suffering?  Tell me, Donny, what colour's the sky in YOUR world?
> 
>>(BTW, the proper name for it is _Shechita_, although Jenny-poo'll probably
>>jump right in and correct my spelling, since I'm not fluent in kike.)
> 
>>Les
> 
> ... or have ever been around an animal who has been slaughtered, either by a 
> shochet or anybody else.  You ever see a cow slaughtered, asshole?  Ever get 
> your hands wet helping?  

No.  But this proves what, exactly?  That being in on the kill of some cow
makes it okay to torture them?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 23 23:33:04 PDT 1995
Article: 3966 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: President?  L'il ole me?  I'm touched!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:23:16 GMT
Lines: 12

(watch THAT title get some neat replies!)

But seriously, guys, we're ALL one notch above the scum that drifts in
here, we don't need to elevate one of our numbers to even higher status,
or at least not in public, where all the equalitarians can snort derisively.

Les

--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 23 23:33:06 PDT 1995
Article: 3967 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lester Griswold for President of the NG
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pg5r5$c1g@news.umbc.edu> <3pfgpj$a9o@marvin.scsn.net>
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:24:45 GMT
Lines: 32

Sean Jordan (sjorda1@zeus.towson.edu) writes:
> David Padgett (davidp@scsn.net) wrote:
> : some of us got the idea from alt.fan.barry-manilow that we   
> : should elect a president for the ng.  we're in the middle   
> : of our campaigns right now on alt.manilow, and i'm thinking   
> : the wp people are going to win. 
> : but anyway, i think we should have an election here, and i   
> : nominate lester griswold for president. 
> : i think lester would make a good president and that he   
> : would take his duties seriously and do everything he could   
> : to advance the white race. 
> :  
> :  
> : david padgett, racial theorist
> 
> 
> I can understand why Les would make a good president, but you know the 
> "other people" on a.p.w-p would have a definite problem with that...
> 
> -*=Luckycharms=*-
>       a.k.a.
> sjorda1@zeus.towson.edu
> 
So screw 'em.  Who cares what a bunch of whining ninnies have problems with?

Les


--
Our situation is desperate, and we can afford no illusions, no retreat
into a land of dreams.  Now, more than ever, optimism is cowardice.
		-- Revilo P. Oliver


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 17:04:50 PDT 1995
Article: 5058 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: My @#$%^%^& provider did it AGAIN!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References: <3ptc3g$31u@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3prids$n4m@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pqnth$iuj@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3ppue8$egn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pp9gi$apf@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pnufr$197@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plq6o$ipn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3plfgf$gnp@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pfum1$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     <3pj8e1$5gp@decaxp.har
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 05:54:52 GMT
Lines: 46
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3996 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:172392 alt.discrimination:23681 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5058

vard.edu> <3pl8k5$f8d@deca
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)


Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:

(snip)

> My interest is in the truth, because everything else is pretty useless to 
> me.  I have no political agenda - I basically have no politics.  I'm not 
> registered, and I don't associate myself with any particular party or 
> cause.  It all annoys me, frankly.  I just want the truth.  How about you?
> If you really want the truth so badly, why not do some reading?  Afraid 
> of what you'll find?  That's not the way.

So what IS the way?  "You ignorant racist bigot bastard, you're so stupid
you should stop wasting air that could be better used by others!"  Or how
about, "That's racist neo-Nazi shit, how can you be so stupid as to
expect any THINKING person to accept that?"

> : > You even snipped the Bakersfield truck stop.  He's a machine, folks.
> 
> : So my wife tells me...
> 
> Wow.  Les made me laugh.  Cool.

I try.

> : > And, uh, dreaming what exactly?
> 
> : Of ALL the jews in the world being concentrated in one place, rather than
> : spread out everywhere.
> 
> Dial I for Israel.  They're working on it themselves.  I guess they've 
> gotten tired of all the bullshit.

Well, it sure isn't hard to find.  I wonder why all the jews haven't gone
there yet.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 17:04:52 PDT 1995
Article: 5059 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Steve Garza would make a piss-poor spy!
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References:  <3pnufr$197@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plq6o$ipn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3plfgf$gnp@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pfum1$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     <3pj8e1$5gp@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pl8k5$f8d@decaxp.harvard.edu>   
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)

Steve  Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:

>> So, according to you, the Europeans were the most backwards people on
>> earth?  Gee, by the 15th century, they were the LEAST backwards people on
>> earth!  Conclusion:  they overtook everyone else!

> Oh Les, they overtook everyone else in the space of a few centuries. Are
> we to suppose they evolved, changed, and advanced in that space of time?
> That somehow in that brief period they became better than other people
> genetically? If so, give us the secret so other peoples can do likewise.

But... but, Stevie, that's predicated on two assumptions that are totally
erroneous:

1)  That I BELIEVE this bull-crap about prehistoric Whites being a bunch
of Alley-Oops; and,

2)  That I'd WANT to share our hard-earned knowledge with every
featherless biped on Earth.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 17:04:55 PDT 1995
Article: 5060 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lane's grammy (was: Re: Lester hasn't a clue (Big Surprise)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pta6l$31u@decaxp.harvard.edu>  <3pqipq$bl2@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:09:47 GMT
Lines: 46
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:5060 misc.immigration.usa:2853 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:172394 alt.discrimination:23683 alt.politics.correct:34656 soc.culture.usa:47284 soc.culture.african.american:71194

Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
> : Lane's tactic is not unlike that normally used by the leftists when they
> : are against the ropes, trying to subtly change the tone of the debate from
> : one of intellectual, impersonal exchange of facts to one of emotion and
> : personal anecdote ("hater", "my English grandmother", "I myself am of
> : mixed heritage" {that last being the weapon of ANOTHER female here}).
> 
> Well, Les, you may be annoying, but at least you're not consistent.  Why 
> is it that, while I've been nothing but civil with you (aside from the 
> occasional screech owl, which is all in good fun), you insist upon 
> calling me things like "Stooie" despite my politely worded requests that 
> I be addressed properly?  

Funny.  You have no problem categorizing your own light-heartedness as
"all in good fun", but you seem to have difficulty recognizing levity in
others.

> Why do you let my repeated requests for the very intellectual, 
> impersonal exchange of facts which above you claim to support pass by 
> without comment?  

WHAT requests?  All I've seen are strident assertions that everyone else
is right, I'm wrong, end of story.
 
> Why do you get defensive and start changing thread titles when we 
> question your assertions that something is "crapola" and you refuse to 
> support it with any facts at all?

That's not me getting defensive.  That's my provider, and since I don't
want to leave a string of unpronouncable characters as the subject, I put
whatever comes to mind, and seems to make sense with regard to the content
of the message. 

> Or, finally, since I haven't been doing any of the things you mention 
> above, will you admit I'm not a Nefarious Leftist?  

Make me.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 17:04:57 PDT 1995
Article: 5061 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Jews!  Can't find 'em.
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ptcgv$31u@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pr89k$lq9@decaxp.harvard.edu>   
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:19:17 GMT
Lines: 48

Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> : Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:
> 
> : (a really long message, full of blank lines and CRs, telling us that
> : supposedly there were 6 million jews missing at the end of WWII.)
> 
> : Stewie, just because you use new and innovative ways to write "six
> : million", doesn't prove a THING.  Has it ever occured to you that your
> : premise of the "six million missing jews" might be in error, and not
> : everyone accepts it?
> 
> I've considered it and rejected it as extremely unlikely, considering the 
> amount of attention that's been given to the subject.  Historians,

Who can't seem to agree:  Max I. Dimont (a jew, in case anyone cares)
suggests that the "Holocaust" claimed between 4.2 and 4.5 million.

> the census figures,

WHICH census?  The ones conducted during WWII, when "jew" was REMOVED as a
racial classification?

> my Jewish friends with dead relatives,

Oy vey!  How we suffer!

Hey, binky, LOTS of people have relatives who are dead.  That doesn't
prove that they died in the manner of the day (gassings, right now, but
they're gonna be moving on to something else soon)

> and the German government

REAL legitimate source!  Hell, you can be thrown in jail in Germany just
for giving the Aryan salute or having a swastika!  The "German" government
says whatever its controllers TELL it to say.

> can't all be wrong.

Sure they can.  A consensus is not automatically the same thing as being
right.
 
Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 17:05:00 PDT 1995
Article: 5062 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: l8k5$f8d@deca
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References: <3ptg9g$48c@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3psl42$st5@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pr33q$ks4@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3ppvsg$emi@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pp9gi$apf@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pnufr$197@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plq6o$ipn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3plfgf$gnp@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pfum1$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     <3pj8e1$5gp@decaxp.har
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:26:56 GMT
Lines: 50

vard.edu> <3pl8k5$f8d@deca
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)

Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:

(snip)

> : > One more time: that's irrelevent, even though you're wrong.  The 
> : > numbers came from a non-white race.  Mathematics is not, as you 
> : > said, the exclusive creation of the white race.
> 
> : Neat.  A branch of the White race is now non-White?  Wow, that's good.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, Aryan's aren't white.

Then your knowledge is, shall we say, INCOMPLETE.

> I mean, real Aryans, the ones who are still occupying the northern half of 
> India,

Contradiction in terms.  There are NO pure Aryans left in India, barring
recent immigrants and consuls/ambassadors and their staffs.

"Aryan" is a Sanskrit word meaning "noble".  You can't just throw it
around whenever you like.

> according to the post of an Indian person the other day, who, it seems, ought 
> to know.  

And since I'm White, I ought to know about White, so why don't you just
shut up and listen a bit?

Something ELSE this person from India appears to have neglected to mention
was the caste system, which is still alive and kicking today.  The caste
system was instituted in an effort to keep the Aryan blood relatively pure
>from  being mixed with that of the Dravidian natives.  Guess what, Stooie? 
The darkness of one's skin is the major indicator of WHERE one sits on the
caste system:  the darker the skin, the lower one is (it also involves a
lot of other factors, but that's the biggie).

> Hitler was just a wee bit misinformed, that's all.

And you're a BIG bit misinformed.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 17:05:03 PDT 1995
Article: 5063 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Mark is full of it
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pttku$6sn@decaxp.harvard.edu>  
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:29:57 GMT
Lines: 20

Mark Staloff (staloff@course3.harvard.edu) writes:
> Prove to me you're not Shannen Doherty.
> 
> Now.
> 
> I'm dead serious.  I want concrete book references, and factual support 
> communicated over e-mail.

So this is what the argument degenerates into, eh?

Sure you're not Billie Sewer?

Bye, Mark.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 21:09:32 PDT 1995
Article: 3996 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: My @#$%^%^& provider did it AGAIN!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References: <3ptc3g$31u@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3prids$n4m@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pqnth$iuj@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3ppue8$egn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pp9gi$apf@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pnufr$197@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plq6o$ipn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3plfgf$gnp@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pfum1$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     <3pj8e1$5gp@decaxp.har
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 05:54:52 GMT
Lines: 46
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:3996 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:172392 alt.discrimination:23681 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5058

vard.edu> <3pl8k5$f8d@deca
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)


Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:

(snip)

> My interest is in the truth, because everything else is pretty useless to 
> me.  I have no political agenda - I basically have no politics.  I'm not 
> registered, and I don't associate myself with any particular party or 
> cause.  It all annoys me, frankly.  I just want the truth.  How about you?
> If you really want the truth so badly, why not do some reading?  Afraid 
> of what you'll find?  That's not the way.

So what IS the way?  "You ignorant racist bigot bastard, you're so stupid
you should stop wasting air that could be better used by others!"  Or how
about, "That's racist neo-Nazi shit, how can you be so stupid as to
expect any THINKING person to accept that?"

> : > You even snipped the Bakersfield truck stop.  He's a machine, folks.
> 
> : So my wife tells me...
> 
> Wow.  Les made me laugh.  Cool.

I try.

> : > And, uh, dreaming what exactly?
> 
> : Of ALL the jews in the world being concentrated in one place, rather than
> : spread out everywhere.
> 
> Dial I for Israel.  They're working on it themselves.  I guess they've 
> gotten tired of all the bullshit.

Well, it sure isn't hard to find.  I wonder why all the jews haven't gone
there yet.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 21:09:34 PDT 1995
Article: 3997 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Gyptions wasn't black, man!??
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 05:49:07 GMT
Lines: 42

Steve  Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:

>> > While pyramids were being built in Egypt by people of color, while 
>> > the 7 Wonders of the World were being built, maintained, and admired
>> > by people of color, most of us European's were running around in the
>> > woods throwing spears.  The Chinese were fooling around with things 
>> > like paper and star maps.

>> Where do you people GET this crap?  I mean, the stuff in my composter
>> smells better...

> Smell it Les. Take a deep breath. Hold it in long. Now release.
> 
> The people of Egypt are people of color. Not white, not black, but a deep
> brown. They are an amalgamation of the races of that area. At the time of
> their height they were a "superpower." Their techonology was state of the
> art.

This is getting really boring, having to repeat the same shit over and
over.  Guess it's only to be expected, though, since you "We are the
world"ers are so dense.  Well, here goes...

The Egyptians of TODAY are indeed a brown colour.  However, the Egyptians
of TODAY did NOT build the pyramids.  Furthermore, the _fellahin_ of today
(that's the wogs in Egypt) are NOT representative of the people who
DESIGNED the pyramids.

There.  Is it sinking in this time?

> Does it smell ugly to you Les? You must have allergies. It smell like
> roses to me!!!

I'm sure it does.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 21:09:42 PDT 1995
Article: 4010 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <3p6p4n$i6b@marvin.scsn.net>  
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 12:19:11 GMT
Lines: 83
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4010 alt.revisionism:21556

kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>My, how perceptive of you to recognize "Holocaust" denial when you see it.:-)
>>
>>But seriously, I will tell you that I don't think the concentration camps
>>were Club Med.  Anyway, the main point of contention is NOT the conditions
>>in the camps, but the wild claims that Exterminationists make (Nazis
>>bashing babies' brains out?  Come on!  Also, the astounding rates of
>>asphyxiation and cremation?  Sure!)
> 
> 	Re. the "Nazis bashing babies' brains out?" Quite a few people 
> claim to have seen Nazis doing just that.

And quite a few people claim to have seen UFOs and bigfoot too, not to
mention Elvis.

> (Spiegelman's father mentions this in _Maus_; he claims to have been an 
> eyewitness to this.  There are others).  There is also testimony taken from 
> doctors (Danny Keren has posted this a few times) which states that children 
> were exterminated with phenol injections.  Granted, this isn't bashing their 
> brains out... but it's still probably not a nice thing to do.

Gawd, Kevin, that's virtually saying, "We can't PROVE that they bashed
babies' brains out, but they killed kids ANYWAY, so what the hell?"  I
didn't realize that you took the stance of the Demjanjuk prosecution
lawyer:  "Even if he _isn't_ Ivan the Terrible, he must have done
_something_ during the war!"
 
> 	The astounding rates of asphyxiation? It's not hard to gas quite 
> a few people when you put them in a room and throw Zyklon-B crystals in.  
> And there are some pretty good documents on the cremations.  (See "The 
> Strain on the Furnaces Was Colossal..," another post which Danny Keren 
> has placed here numerous times and which was also, I believe, taken from 
> testimony from a trial... not, unless I am mistaken, from the Nuremburg 
> trial or from Hoss's testimony, either).

I still find it amazing that they (the Nazis) could do with 1940s
technology what we can't replicate with 1990s technology.
  
>>Beats me.  But, having had first-hand experience with jews, I'd think that
>>someone as forebearing as you would hesitate to make a demand like that.
>>
>>I'm sure that they just didn't up and say, "Hey, let's expel the jews today!"
> 
> 	No... they probably hated them for a long time for various 
> irrational reasons (the "Jews use the blood of Christian children in 
> Passover matzohs" myth being one example of same).  Then, finally, they 
> put that hatred into action.  

I see.  So, the accusations over centuries that jews perpetrated blood
libel was "irrational", and irrational now means "wrong and bigoted"?

> 	I've known a lot of Jews in my day.  Some of them were absolute 
> scumbags.  I'm proud to call some others good friends.  Most of them I 
> couldn't really care less for one way or the other.  All in all, that's 
> about the same reaction I'd have to a question regarding _any_ 
> cultural/ethnic group.  (I've known a lot of decent, upstanding WASPs and 
> a few scummy ones too.  People are people, I've found).

Geez, this sounds just like the "Hell, I'm not racist!  Why, some of my
best friends are jews!"
 
>>My, what an inclusive definition.  Just HAD to take a stab at White
>>Separatists, eh?
> 
> 	Not at all "White Separatists," just those who espouse violence 
> as a means to making their country "All White."  Like I've said, I don't 
> have any problem with people who want to buy a tract of land and set it 
> up as "White Space."

Like I asked, Kevin, what if I want to go about it differently than the
way with which you "have no problem"?  To be quite honest, who gives a
shit in a snowstorm WHAT you want? (not trying to be provocative here,
just asking why YOU get to decide the manner in which we secede.)

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 21:28:29 PDT 1995
Article: 15728 of alt.skinheads
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Aztecs?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pu15n$42n@news.cc.oberlin.edu> <3psk3l$jej@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3prpr1$lmb@news.bu.edu> <3pcta5$rcj@agate.berkeley.edu>    ,
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 12:28:39 GMT
Lines: 41

Min-Sun Kim (smk8523@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
> 
>>Of course, since Whites don't riot and loot if they're discriminated
>>against (yet) and are told that they're irredeemably evil.
>>
>>Les
>>
>>
>>--
>>Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
>>		-Lycurgus
> 
> If you have studied American history, you would realize the absolute idiocy 
> contained within your statement. One of the greatest fears of the Framers of 
> the American Constitution, was the fear of factionalism. This fear arose out 
> of the increased numbers of rebellions that were occurring within the "nation" 
> (e.g. Shay's rebellion); these rebellions were basically riots which included, 
> yes, looting. Fears of such increased factionalism within the country led to 
> the writing of Federalist No.10 by James Madison, under the psuedonym of 
> Publius. Where do you get facts to back up such ridiculous statements such as 
> "since whites don't riot and loot"???

Gee, Min, from looking at the world around me.  See, there's a time to
keep one's nose buried in a book, and a time to look at the world around
you.  It's pretty pathetic to hide behind what was written a couple
hundred years ago, when the current reality is, shall we say, CONSIDERABLY
different.

> Does your ignorance of basic scientific knowledge extend to history as
> well?  Oh wait, you're a revisionist right? > 
> *snort*

Pigs snort, Min.
 
Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 22:27:31 PDT 1995
Article: 21556 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <3p6p4n$i6b@marvin.scsn.net>  
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 12:19:11 GMT
Lines: 83
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4010 alt.revisionism:21556

kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>My, how perceptive of you to recognize "Holocaust" denial when you see it.:-)
>>
>>But seriously, I will tell you that I don't think the concentration camps
>>were Club Med.  Anyway, the main point of contention is NOT the conditions
>>in the camps, but the wild claims that Exterminationists make (Nazis
>>bashing babies' brains out?  Come on!  Also, the astounding rates of
>>asphyxiation and cremation?  Sure!)
> 
> 	Re. the "Nazis bashing babies' brains out?" Quite a few people 
> claim to have seen Nazis doing just that.

And quite a few people claim to have seen UFOs and bigfoot too, not to
mention Elvis.

> (Spiegelman's father mentions this in _Maus_; he claims to have been an 
> eyewitness to this.  There are others).  There is also testimony taken from 
> doctors (Danny Keren has posted this a few times) which states that children 
> were exterminated with phenol injections.  Granted, this isn't bashing their 
> brains out... but it's still probably not a nice thing to do.

Gawd, Kevin, that's virtually saying, "We can't PROVE that they bashed
babies' brains out, but they killed kids ANYWAY, so what the hell?"  I
didn't realize that you took the stance of the Demjanjuk prosecution
lawyer:  "Even if he _isn't_ Ivan the Terrible, he must have done
_something_ during the war!"
 
> 	The astounding rates of asphyxiation? It's not hard to gas quite 
> a few people when you put them in a room and throw Zyklon-B crystals in.  
> And there are some pretty good documents on the cremations.  (See "The 
> Strain on the Furnaces Was Colossal..," another post which Danny Keren 
> has placed here numerous times and which was also, I believe, taken from 
> testimony from a trial... not, unless I am mistaken, from the Nuremburg 
> trial or from Hoss's testimony, either).

I still find it amazing that they (the Nazis) could do with 1940s
technology what we can't replicate with 1990s technology.
  
>>Beats me.  But, having had first-hand experience with jews, I'd think that
>>someone as forebearing as you would hesitate to make a demand like that.
>>
>>I'm sure that they just didn't up and say, "Hey, let's expel the jews today!"
> 
> 	No... they probably hated them for a long time for various 
> irrational reasons (the "Jews use the blood of Christian children in 
> Passover matzohs" myth being one example of same).  Then, finally, they 
> put that hatred into action.  

I see.  So, the accusations over centuries that jews perpetrated blood
libel was "irrational", and irrational now means "wrong and bigoted"?

> 	I've known a lot of Jews in my day.  Some of them were absolute 
> scumbags.  I'm proud to call some others good friends.  Most of them I 
> couldn't really care less for one way or the other.  All in all, that's 
> about the same reaction I'd have to a question regarding _any_ 
> cultural/ethnic group.  (I've known a lot of decent, upstanding WASPs and 
> a few scummy ones too.  People are people, I've found).

Geez, this sounds just like the "Hell, I'm not racist!  Why, some of my
best friends are jews!"
 
>>My, what an inclusive definition.  Just HAD to take a stab at White
>>Separatists, eh?
> 
> 	Not at all "White Separatists," just those who espouse violence 
> as a means to making their country "All White."  Like I've said, I don't 
> have any problem with people who want to buy a tract of land and set it 
> up as "White Space."

Like I asked, Kevin, what if I want to go about it differently than the
way with which you "have no problem"?  To be quite honest, who gives a
shit in a snowstorm WHAT you want? (not trying to be provocative here,
just asking why YOU get to decide the manner in which we secede.)

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 22:27:34 PDT 1995
Article: 21557 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Where Kevin is liberal
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pt9q4$11j@bell.maths.tcd.ie>      
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 12:33:46 GMT
Lines: 23

Derek Bell (dbell@maths.tcd.ie) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
>>I DO think, however, that your libertarianism is marbled with the same
>>hypocrisy that liberalism is (ie, "you're free AS LONG AS...").  Hey,
>>freedom's an absolute:  you either have it, or you don't.
> 
> 	I think any civilised society places restrictions on what you can
> or cannot do. Liberals just try and make the restrictions as few as possible
> without harming others. (Note: I know `Liberal' is a loaded term in North
> America, but I use it here to mean someone who is a liberal in the sense of
> J.S.Mill.)

I agree that any civilization must place some restrictions on personal
freedoms to survive.  The difference being, I ADMIT it, but liberals never
will.  Neither will libertarians, unless they're pushed against the wall,
and even then, they'll quibble and equivocate.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 23:49:02 PDT 1995
Article: 5059 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Steve Garza would make a piss-poor spy!
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)

Steve  Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:

>> So, according to you, the Europeans were the most backwards people on
>> earth?  Gee, by the 15th century, they were the LEAST backwards people on
>> earth!  Conclusion:  they overtook everyone else!

> Oh Les, they overtook everyone else in the space of a few centuries. Are
> we to suppose they evolved, changed, and advanced in that space of time?
> That somehow in that brief period they became better than other people
> genetically? If so, give us the secret so other peoples can do likewise.

But... but, Stevie, that's predicated on two assumptions that are totally
erroneous:

1)  That I BELIEVE this bull-crap about prehistoric Whites being a bunch
of Alley-Oops; and,

2)  That I'd WANT to share our hard-earned knowledge with every
featherless biped on Earth.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 23:49:05 PDT 1995
Article: 5060 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lane's grammy (was: Re: Lester hasn't a clue (Big Surprise)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pta6l$31u@decaxp.harvard.edu>  <3pqipq$bl2@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:09:47 GMT
Lines: 46
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:5060 misc.immigration.usa:2853 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:172394 alt.discrimination:23683 alt.politics.correct:34656 soc.culture.usa:47284 soc.culture.african.american:71194

Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
> : Lane's tactic is not unlike that normally used by the leftists when they
> : are against the ropes, trying to subtly change the tone of the debate from
> : one of intellectual, impersonal exchange of facts to one of emotion and
> : personal anecdote ("hater", "my English grandmother", "I myself am of
> : mixed heritage" {that last being the weapon of ANOTHER female here}).
> 
> Well, Les, you may be annoying, but at least you're not consistent.  Why 
> is it that, while I've been nothing but civil with you (aside from the 
> occasional screech owl, which is all in good fun), you insist upon 
> calling me things like "Stooie" despite my politely worded requests that 
> I be addressed properly?  

Funny.  You have no problem categorizing your own light-heartedness as
"all in good fun", but you seem to have difficulty recognizing levity in
others.

> Why do you let my repeated requests for the very intellectual, 
> impersonal exchange of facts which above you claim to support pass by 
> without comment?  

WHAT requests?  All I've seen are strident assertions that everyone else
is right, I'm wrong, end of story.
 
> Why do you get defensive and start changing thread titles when we 
> question your assertions that something is "crapola" and you refuse to 
> support it with any facts at all?

That's not me getting defensive.  That's my provider, and since I don't
want to leave a string of unpronouncable characters as the subject, I put
whatever comes to mind, and seems to make sense with regard to the content
of the message. 

> Or, finally, since I haven't been doing any of the things you mention 
> above, will you admit I'm not a Nefarious Leftist?  

Make me.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 23:49:07 PDT 1995
Article: 5061 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Jews!  Can't find 'em.
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ptcgv$31u@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pr89k$lq9@decaxp.harvard.edu>   
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:19:17 GMT
Lines: 48

Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> : Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:
> 
> : (a really long message, full of blank lines and CRs, telling us that
> : supposedly there were 6 million jews missing at the end of WWII.)
> 
> : Stewie, just because you use new and innovative ways to write "six
> : million", doesn't prove a THING.  Has it ever occured to you that your
> : premise of the "six million missing jews" might be in error, and not
> : everyone accepts it?
> 
> I've considered it and rejected it as extremely unlikely, considering the 
> amount of attention that's been given to the subject.  Historians,

Who can't seem to agree:  Max I. Dimont (a jew, in case anyone cares)
suggests that the "Holocaust" claimed between 4.2 and 4.5 million.

> the census figures,

WHICH census?  The ones conducted during WWII, when "jew" was REMOVED as a
racial classification?

> my Jewish friends with dead relatives,

Oy vey!  How we suffer!

Hey, binky, LOTS of people have relatives who are dead.  That doesn't
prove that they died in the manner of the day (gassings, right now, but
they're gonna be moving on to something else soon)

> and the German government

REAL legitimate source!  Hell, you can be thrown in jail in Germany just
for giving the Aryan salute or having a swastika!  The "German" government
says whatever its controllers TELL it to say.

> can't all be wrong.

Sure they can.  A consensus is not automatically the same thing as being
right.
 
Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 23:49:10 PDT 1995
Article: 5062 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: l8k5$f8d@deca
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (News Administrator)
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Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
References: <3ptg9g$48c@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3psl42$st5@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pr33q$ks4@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3ppvsg$emi@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pp9gi$apf@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pnufr$197@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <3plq6o$ipn@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3plfgf$gnp@decaxp.harvard.edu> <3pfum1$f7f@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     <3pj8e1$5gp@decaxp.har
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:26:56 GMT
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vard.edu> <3pl8k5$f8d@deca
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)

Stewart King (slking@husc7.harvard.edu) writes:

(snip)

> : > One more time: that's irrelevent, even though you're wrong.  The 
> : > numbers came from a non-white race.  Mathematics is not, as you 
> : > said, the exclusive creation of the white race.
> 
> : Neat.  A branch of the White race is now non-White?  Wow, that's good.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, Aryan's aren't white.

Then your knowledge is, shall we say, INCOMPLETE.

> I mean, real Aryans, the ones who are still occupying the northern half of 
> India,

Contradiction in terms.  There are NO pure Aryans left in India, barring
recent immigrants and consuls/ambassadors and their staffs.

"Aryan" is a Sanskrit word meaning "noble".  You can't just throw it
around whenever you like.

> according to the post of an Indian person the other day, who, it seems, ought 
> to know.  

And since I'm White, I ought to know about White, so why don't you just
shut up and listen a bit?

Something ELSE this person from India appears to have neglected to mention
was the caste system, which is still alive and kicking today.  The caste
system was instituted in an effort to keep the Aryan blood relatively pure
>from  being mixed with that of the Dravidian natives.  Guess what, Stooie? 
The darkness of one's skin is the major indicator of WHERE one sits on the
caste system:  the darker the skin, the lower one is (it also involves a
lot of other factors, but that's the biggie).

> Hitler was just a wee bit misinformed, that's all.

And you're a BIG bit misinformed.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu May 25 23:49:11 PDT 1995
Article: 5063 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Mark is full of it
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3pttku$6sn@decaxp.harvard.edu>  
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:29:57 GMT
Lines: 20

Mark Staloff (staloff@course3.harvard.edu) writes:
> Prove to me you're not Shannen Doherty.
> 
> Now.
> 
> I'm dead serious.  I want concrete book references, and factual support 
> communicated over e-mail.

So this is what the argument degenerates into, eh?

Sure you're not Billie Sewer?

Bye, Mark.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri May 26 15:22:17 PDT 1995
Article: 21565 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:     
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:09:27 GMT
Lines: 110
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21565 alt.politics.white-power:4019

kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>> 	Re. the "Nazis bashing babies' brains out?" Quite a few people 
>>> claim to have seen Nazis doing just that.
>>
>>And quite a few people claim to have seen UFOs and bigfoot too, not to
>>mention Elvis.
> 
> 	OK, then, Les... what _would_ you count as acceptable evidence 
> that the Nazis bashed babies?

Well, I certainly do NOT accept the argument that, "Gee, them rotten
krauts injected kids with phenol, so let's tell the world that they bashed
babies' brains out!"

> 	And on another tack: you said something a while back about
> atrocities committed by Allied soldiers in Germany during the later part
> of the War and in the post-war period.  (Actually, you asked me to ask my
> schoolteacher, who was at Dachau when it was liberated "how many German 
> women he had raped?"
> 
> 	I'm assuming you have some evidence of these atrocities.

Yep.  The American Dissident Voices program of February 13, 1995.

> And I mean, of course, besides eyewitness testimony.  You know, of course, 
> that people may claim that they saw American soldiers raping German women.  
> Of course, a lot of people also claim to have seen Bigfoot and UFOs, not to 
> mention Elvis.  Or do you only apply this standard to testimony against 
> _Germans_.

You should drop the sarcasm.  It doesn't look good on you, and it doesn't
help your cause any.

> 	You also accepted as true eyewitness testimony from Henry Ford 
> that he had heard two Jews plotting about taking over the world.  I 
> suppose he may have heard that.  Of course, a lot of people also claim to 
> have seen Bigfoot...

Hey, just accepting the same sort of evidence that the Exterminationists do.
 
>>Gawd, Kevin, that's virtually saying, "We can't PROVE that they bashed
>>babies' brains out, but they killed kids ANYWAY, so what the hell?"  I
>>didn't realize that you took the stance of the Demjanjuk prosecution
>>lawyer:  "Even if he _isn't_ Ivan the Terrible, he must have done
>>_something_ during the war!"
> 
> 	As I said, there's evidence that they bashed children against 
> walls.

Yeah, hysterical testimony from people eager to paint the Nazis as totally
inhuman monsters.

> There's _also_ evidence that they exterminated children with 
> phenol injections.  

That's as may be, but phenol injections are _not_ the same thing as head
bashings.

> 	Do you believe that they did _not_ exterminate children with 
> phenol injections.  If not, why do you believe that these doctors 
> testified that they had.  (And I'm going to bet you'll say "torture" or 
> "duress" and I'll respond right back, "How can you prove torture? And of 
> course you can't count eyewitness testimony... after all, a lot of people 
> claim to have seen Bigfoot, etc.)

You're wrong.  No, the doctors testified that they had injected phenol,
just like the head Nazis testified to their complicity in the "Holocaust",
because the Nuremburg trials were victor's justice.  The Allied courts had
already determined that the Nazis WERE guilty of perpetrating the
"Holocaust".  Defenses of "it never occurred" would not have worked.

(snip - Kevin telling me about "eyewitness testimony", presumably to show
that I am hoist on my own petard by condemning it).

>>Like I asked, Kevin, what if I want to go about it differently than the
>>way with which you "have no problem"?  To be quite honest, who gives a
>>shit in a snowstorm WHAT you want? (not trying to be provocative here,
>>just asking why YOU get to decide the manner in which we secede.)
> 
> 	Under the U.S. Constitution, going about "seceding" by taking up 
> arms and declaring yourself a separate nation (and driving out all people 
> you don't like) would constitute "treason."  

But Kevin, surely even you realize that that presupposes a belief that the
U.S. Constitution is the be-all and end-all document, that we are going to
adhere to it while our race sickens and dies.

> 	As I said, I don't support U.S. laws which seek to control whom a 
> property owner can rent or sell his private property to.  I do support 
> laws which prevent people from taking other people's possessions at 
> gunpoint.  Call it a hypocritical quirk of mine...

I already have.

> but I suspect that you'd be looking for a cop if someone pulled a gun on you 
> and took your wallet.

Maybe, maybe not.  My desire to show that I can take care of myself would
probably be conflicting with the irony of seeing one of the System's goons
having to defend the rights of a "Nazi".

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri May 26 19:37:43 PDT 1995
Article: 5110 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>   
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:52:05 GMT
Lines: 36
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:5110 misc.immigration.usa:2876 talk.politics.misc:195821 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:172631 alt.discrimination:23732 alt.politics.correct:34782 soc.culture.usa:47386 soc.culture.african.american:71382


Bill Anderson (libwca@emory.edu) writes:
> On Wed, 24 May 1995, Les Griswold wrote:
> 
>> Barbara Saunders (saunders@sybase.com) writes:
> 
>> > So?  I'm not for "mixing up" or "keeping pure".  I think people should
>> > marry whomever they want to for whatever reason the *people involved* want.
>> > The only thing, IMO, that would keep the rates of intermarriage down as
>> > people mingle at work, school, etc., though, is racism.
>> 
>> You aren't too well read on history, are you?  Otherwise, you'd realize
>> that your hyper-individualism leads invariably to miscegenation, which in
>> turn leads to the collapse of civilizations, not just sometimes, but ALL
>> the time.
> 
> Of course, Les refuses to produce a single example of "miscegenation"
> leading to the collapse of civilizations, just as he refuses to produce
> any evidence that the Nazis were close to getting the Bomb--or any 
> evidence for anything he says, actually.  He doesn't need evidence;
> if you disagree with him, you're a "liberal" who can't see the "truth".
> Case closed.

How about the Persian Empire?  Greece?  The Roman Empire?  Those are just
off the top of my head, Billie-boy.

Of course, I'm not holding my breath waiting for an admission of error from
you.  The fact that the Italians of today have nothing in common with the
Romans of the Republic, or even the Empire, makes no impression on you
whatsoever.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri May 26 19:37:47 PDT 1995
Article: 5113 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: White Inventions
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:21:36 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4021 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5113

Pyro (amasters@wizvax.net) writes:
> Let me clarify:
> 
> Atom bomb

But... but, supposedly it would never have happened without EINSTEIN!

> Machine gun
> Nerve gas
> Most warplanes

Try ALL planes.

> Submarine (millitary)
> 
> Ok, let me dwell a bit on the last one. The first sub to sink a ship was 
> so deadly that it not only sunk the ship but also killed the crew of the 
> sub. This is the length that white men are willing to go to kill other 
> human beings? Are white people really less aggressive than any other 
> group? Why don't you smell what you have been shoveling?

Has anyone ever claimed that Whites are flower-sniffing, sandal-wearing
peaceniks?  Yes, the White race is unparallelled in its excellence at war,
among other pursuits.  Of course, that's just HORRIBLE to you.

> I'm a white male and you make me sick.

Likewise.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri May 26 20:12:27 PDT 1995
Article: 4020 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.activism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject:  Faatz, get a grip
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q1bju$r11@kelly.teleport.com>  
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:31:26 GMT
Lines: 57
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4020 alt.politics.socialism.trotsky:3259 alt.activism:61102

Chris Faatz (cfaatz@teleport.com) writes:
> 
> Dear Friends, Comrades, and Colleagues:
> 
> I'm writing because of an interesting and disturbing upsurge of interest
> in the newsgroup alt.politics.socialism-trotsky by two Fascists of the most
> turgid and predictable type, Les Griswold and Rick Knight. Les and Rick are
> regular habitues of alt.politics.white.power, as those of you who monitor
> the racist newsgroups know. Now they seem to have discovered a.p.s.t., and,
> God alone knows why, have seen fit to pay some attention to the discussions
> that are going on there as well.

Chris, we've posted a few times, and not in the past three or so weeks. 
It's a little late for this, no?

But, I will simply repeat my invitation to all of you to head on over to
alt.politics.white-power (like I said, don't forget the hyphen, or you
won't get there.), where we don't have the spectre of "I'll tell your
sysadmin!".  See, "Nazis" aren't afraid of a little disagreement, contrary
to what you'd like to believe.

(snip)

> According to Canada's "Maclean's" magazine of May 8, an issue that is 
> devoted to a large extent to the racist right, both Les and Rick are 
> well-known fascists in Canada. Les has earned himself a particularly 
> noxious reputation. As "Maclean's" puts it:
> 
> "In the Ottawa suburb of Orleans, one white supremacist hotline was
> in full swing from a down-at-the-heels white clapboard bungalow with a
> 'beware of the dog' sign in the front window and Hector the Rotweiler
> standing guard at the front door. The home of Les Griswold, a ubiquitous
> right-wing voice on the Internet and a contributor to the Heritage Front's
> magazine, the house is also listed as the Canadian address of the National
> Alliance, the US organization founded by William Pierce, author of _The
> Turner Diaries_ [the "fictional" blueprint that inspired both the Order
> and McVeigh and cohorts in their crimes]. In soothing tones, the line urged
> callers looking for a 'white program' to telephone Pierce's 400-acre 
> headquarters in West Virginia for books and tapes to 'help you survive
> and prosper in the troubled times ahead.'"

UNFAIR!!!  My home is NOT "down-at-the-heels".

> If you'd like a taste more of what these fellers are purveying, I suggest
> you check out Don Black's Stormfront Web Page at 
> http://www.accesscom.net/stormfront/ If you can't access the Web, and
> would still like to get nauseous, e-mail me. I've archived some of this
> stuff. It's always best to know what the bad guys are thinking (if that's
> the right verb).

On Don's behalf, thanks!

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri May 26 20:12:29 PDT 1995
Article: 4021 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: White Inventions
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:21:36 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4021 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5113

Pyro (amasters@wizvax.net) writes:
> Let me clarify:
> 
> Atom bomb

But... but, supposedly it would never have happened without EINSTEIN!

> Machine gun
> Nerve gas
> Most warplanes

Try ALL planes.

> Submarine (millitary)
> 
> Ok, let me dwell a bit on the last one. The first sub to sink a ship was 
> so deadly that it not only sunk the ship but also killed the crew of the 
> sub. This is the length that white men are willing to go to kill other 
> human beings? Are white people really less aggressive than any other 
> group? Why don't you smell what you have been shoveling?

Has anyone ever claimed that Whites are flower-sniffing, sandal-wearing
peaceniks?  Yes, the White race is unparallelled in its excellence at war,
among other pursuits.  Of course, that's just HORRIBLE to you.

> I'm a white male and you make me sick.

Likewise.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May 27 13:17:59 PDT 1995
Article: 21585 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Phenol injections and brain-bashing
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q65f5$38jq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 09:56:59 GMT
Lines: 28
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4055 alt.revisionism:21585

Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) writes:
> In message  - ecsae@137.205.192.11 (Fungus T
> he Bogeyman ) writes:
> :>
> :>>I understand that.  However, killing children by phenol injection is NOT
> :>>synonymous with bashing babies' brains out.  True, the end result is the
> :>>same, but that's similar to accusing ALL rich men of having used dishonest
> :>>means to achieve their ends, because some are known to have used honest means.
> :>
> :>Sorry, Les, I'm confused.  Do you mean to liken injecting babies with phenol 
> :>to honest means of acquiring wealth, while bashing their brains out is like 
> :>dishonesty?  Or was it the other way around?
> :>
> :>Keep it up, Les.  You go from strength to strength.
> 
> Don't blame yourself if you are confused.  Les seems to equate the degree 
> to which murder is evil with the severity with which it is carried out. 

Not at all.  I merely find it odd that Kevin says that Danny Keren has
posted evidence of phenol injections; therefore, the bashing of babies'
heads against walls must have happened, or at least we have no foundation
for disbelieving it.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May 27 13:18:01 PDT 1995
Article: 21586 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Gettin' land (was: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q65g8$2ebo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 09:58:36 GMT
Lines: 29
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4056 alt.revisionism:21586

Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) writes:
> In message  - bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Gr
> iswold) writes:
> :>
> :>Daren (darenb@mindcrime) writes:
> :>> On Wed, 24 May 1995, kevin filan wrote:
> :>> 
> :>>> 	Not at all "White Separatists," just those who espouse violence 
> :>>> as a means to making their country "All White."  Like I've said, I don't 
> :>>> have any problem with people who want to buy a tract of land and set it 
> :>>> up as "White Space."
> :>> 
> :>> That's the problem, the Feds won't let us do that.  What are we supposed 
> :>> to do, get down on our knees and beg?
> :>
> :>That's what they'd like.  Gives them a big charge to think of the
> :>descendants of the proud and warlike Aryans begging and grovelling.
> 
> The same "warlike Aryans" who got the crap kicked out of them by the 
> mongrelized, Jewish-controlled mob in WWII?

You can always bring down a stag if you get enough dogs at its throat.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat May 27 13:18:03 PDT 1995
Article: 21587 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: My fan club... (was: Re: Hey ! Black ain't Beautiful)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q5t4v$5n9@agate.berkeley.edu>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 09:51:09 GMT
Lines: 17

Tommy the Tourist (nobody@csua.berkeley.edu) writes:
> According to 1992 FBI Crime Statistics:
> 
> 10 White men raped black women.
> 
> 9300+ black men raped White women.
> 
> If black was beautiful, how come every discriminating 
> rapist rapes a white women?

Just thought you guys might like to see this.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 00:51:02 PDT 1995
Article: 21601 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Phenol injections and brain-bashing
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q65f5$38jq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 14:47:51 GMT
Lines: 43
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4066 alt.revisionism:21601

kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:

(snip)

> 	Well, not exactly what I said: (I'd go into more detail on your 
> original response, but I'm on my way to New York City to let the Jews 
> we've been hiding since 1945 know that the Revisionists are on to them 
> and they might want to skip the trips to Miami this year...).

Whatever DID happen to your promised immigration figures?
 
(snip)

> 	3) In either event, it appears that at least some of the Nazis
> were (to paraphrase your description of the First Nations) "baby
> murderers."  I have not seen any evidence that Allied forces engaged in
> this sort of behavior.  

... and whenever someone PRESENTS such evidence, you rank them right up
there with the Flat-Earthers.

> 	4) I also wanted to point out that you seemed inconsistent in 
> what you would accept as "eyewitness testimony."  If it is against the 
> Germans you seem quick to condemn it with the "Bigfoot, UFOs, etc." 
> label.  On the other hand, you seem ready to accept eyewitness testimony 
> which backs your cause.  

And this makes me different from the Exterminationists in what way?

> 	A more convincing method of attack might be to explain WHY this 
> massive volume of testimony is in fact false or exaggerated, rather than 
> denying the value of eyewitness testimony entirely.

And a more convincing method of attack for the Exterminationists might be
to drop the "you Nazi anti-semitic bastard!" approach to Revisionists, but
I'm not holding my breath.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 09:59:05 PDT 1995
Article: 21601 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Phenol injections and brain-bashing
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q65f5$38jq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 14:47:51 GMT
Lines: 43
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4066 alt.revisionism:21601

kevin filan (kfilan@netcom.com) writes:

(snip)

> 	Well, not exactly what I said: (I'd go into more detail on your 
> original response, but I'm on my way to New York City to let the Jews 
> we've been hiding since 1945 know that the Revisionists are on to them 
> and they might want to skip the trips to Miami this year...).

Whatever DID happen to your promised immigration figures?
 
(snip)

> 	3) In either event, it appears that at least some of the Nazis
> were (to paraphrase your description of the First Nations) "baby
> murderers."  I have not seen any evidence that Allied forces engaged in
> this sort of behavior.  

... and whenever someone PRESENTS such evidence, you rank them right up
there with the Flat-Earthers.

> 	4) I also wanted to point out that you seemed inconsistent in 
> what you would accept as "eyewitness testimony."  If it is against the 
> Germans you seem quick to condemn it with the "Bigfoot, UFOs, etc." 
> label.  On the other hand, you seem ready to accept eyewitness testimony 
> which backs your cause.  

And this makes me different from the Exterminationists in what way?

> 	A more convincing method of attack might be to explain WHY this 
> massive volume of testimony is in fact false or exaggerated, rather than 
> denying the value of eyewitness testimony entirely.

And a more convincing method of attack for the Exterminationists might be
to drop the "you Nazi anti-semitic bastard!" approach to Revisionists, but
I'm not holding my breath.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 09:59:07 PDT 1995
Article: 21603 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Gettin' land (was: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:    <3p6p4n$i6b@marvin.scsn.net>    
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:50:17 GMT
Lines: 15
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4073 alt.revisionism:21603

Daren Brittell (darenb@mindcrime) writes:
> On Thu, 25 May 1995, Les Griswold wrote:
> 
>> Gives them a big charge to think of the
>> descendants of the proud and warlike Aryans begging and grovelling.
> 
> They won't get the satisfaction from this descendant.

Nor this one.  But that's what motivates them.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 09:59:10 PDT 1995
Article: 21604 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q3fo2$m1p@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 12:05:47 GMT
Lines: 61
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4076 alt.revisionism:21604

Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) writes:
> In message  - bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les 
> Griswold) writes:

> :>Well, I certainly do NOT accept the argument that, "Gee, them rotten
> :>krauts injected kids with phenol, so let's tell the world that they bashed
> :>babies' brains out!"
> 
> Les, the Germans did inject the kids with phenol.  That's a proven historical 
> fact, alleged by one side and admitted by the other.  Documents also support 
> it.  Eyewitnesses said they saw one guard in particular at one camp who used 
> to bash babies against the wall.  At other camps, babies were either shot or 
> gassed.  They were all equally dead.

I understand that.  However, killing children by phenol injection is NOT
synonymous with bashing babies' brains out.  True, the end result is the
same, but that's similar to accusing ALL rich men of having used dishonest
means to achieve their ends, because some are known to have used honest means.

(snip)

> :>> 	Do you believe that they did _not_ exterminate children with 
> :>> phenol injections.  If not, why do you believe that these doctors 
> :>> testified that they had.  (And I'm going to bet you'll say "torture" or 
> :>> "duress" and I'll respond right back, "How can you prove torture? And of 
> :>> course you can't count eyewitness testimony... after all, a lot of people 
> :>> claim to have seen Bigfoot, etc.)
> :>
> :>You're wrong.  No, the doctors testified that they had injected phenol,
> :>just like the head Nazis testified to their complicity in the "Holocaust",
> :>because the Nuremburg trials were victor's justice.  The Allied courts had
> :>already determined that the Nazis WERE guilty of perpetrating the
> :>"Holocaust".  Defenses of "it never occurred" would not have worked.
> 
> Well, faced with their own documents, it would have been somewhat diffcult 
> for the Germans to prove that the Holocaust didn't occur.  Hans Frank 
> admitted his role openly, knowing he would be executed (Im Angesicht des 
> Galgens), and he was the numero uno in the Generalgouvernement.  Why would he 
> admit such a thing knowing it would guarantee his execution?

Because he knew that he was marked for death ANYWAY.  However, most of the
Nazis executed at Nuremburg had families and relatives with whom they
(thought) it would go wasier if they cooperated.

> :>Maybe, maybe not.  My desire to show that I can take care of myself would
> :>probably be conflicting with the irony of seeing one of the System's goons
> :>having to defend the rights of a "Nazi".
> 
> The rights which you enjoy were won fighting those whom you seem to admire 
> and who would never have granted you those same rights.

You seem quite knowledgeable in what the Nazis were and were not thinking
in terms of law and order.  Most interesting that someone who claims to be
against Nazis would have all of this information.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 09:59:14 PDT 1995
Article: 21607 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 15:07:53 GMT
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Fay  Stetner (fs10@columbia.edu) writes:
> On Wed, 24 May 1995, Les Griswold wrote:

>> Like I asked, Kevin, what if I want to go about it differently than the
>> way with which you "have no problem"?  To be quite honest, who gives a
>> shit in a snowstorm WHAT you want? (not trying to be provocative here,
>> just asking why YOU get to decide the manner in which we secede.)

>   ill try to put it in terms you may be able to understand. i get to 
>   decide for instance that you do not secede by racist violence for many 
>   reasons, but the one you may relate to is that you are not dealing with a 
>   ghetto or village full of helpless peasants anymore. i am not walking 
>   into any oven. if you want to secede from my country, you can get the 
>   fuck out, but if you think you are going to come around me with your nazi 
>   jack boot bullshit, be ready for some grief.

Aw, geez, and here we thought it would be easy!  We never EVER thought
that anyone might actually OPPOSE us! (that's sarcasm.)

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 09:59:28 PDT 1995
Article: 21623 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: SS officers
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
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Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <24MAY199523192637@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>  <3pr09n$1k7u@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 15:29:10 GMT
Lines: 43

Daniel Mittleman (dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu) writes:

Les Griswold:
> :>And maybe it's a slogan meaning "never again will we allow the Gentiles to
> :>find out what we're really about."
> 
>     Um Les, read this slow and see if you can follow the logic.
> 
>     1. Most Gentiles do not think Jews are up to anything neferious.  (In
>     fact your movement is trying to convince them otherwise BECAUSE YOU
>     NEED THEM TO BE CONVINCED otherwise to further your cause.)

Wrong.  Most Gentiles TODAY don't think that jews are up to anything
nefarious.
 
>     2. If most Gentiles do not think Jews are up to anything neferious then
>     they have not yet found out what the Jews are really about (assuming,
>     of course, there is something to find out.)

Which means that either the jews really aren't up to anything, or they
are.  If the latter, it simply means that most Gentiles haven't found out
about it.
 
>     3. If most Gentiles have not yet found out what the Jews are really
>     about then [a] not wanting them to find out *again* makes no sense, and
>     [b] using a phrase like "never again" as a major propoganda slogan
>     would be tactically really stupid.

This makes no sense.  It assumes that jews are totally innocent of ANY
wrongdoing, an assumption (it may surprise you to find out) that I do NOT
share.

>     4. Jews, neferious or not, are not as a group really stupid.

I never said they were.  However, intelligence is not automatically
indicative of character.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:48:30 PDT 1995
Article: 5110 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Racial suicide (was: Mixed adoptions are always better.)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:52:05 GMT
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Bill Anderson (libwca@emory.edu) writes:
> On Wed, 24 May 1995, Les Griswold wrote:
> 
>> Barbara Saunders (saunders@sybase.com) writes:
> 
>> > So?  I'm not for "mixing up" or "keeping pure".  I think people should
>> > marry whomever they want to for whatever reason the *people involved* want.
>> > The only thing, IMO, that would keep the rates of intermarriage down as
>> > people mingle at work, school, etc., though, is racism.
>> 
>> You aren't too well read on history, are you?  Otherwise, you'd realize
>> that your hyper-individualism leads invariably to miscegenation, which in
>> turn leads to the collapse of civilizations, not just sometimes, but ALL
>> the time.
> 
> Of course, Les refuses to produce a single example of "miscegenation"
> leading to the collapse of civilizations, just as he refuses to produce
> any evidence that the Nazis were close to getting the Bomb--or any 
> evidence for anything he says, actually.  He doesn't need evidence;
> if you disagree with him, you're a "liberal" who can't see the "truth".
> Case closed.

How about the Persian Empire?  Greece?  The Roman Empire?  Those are just
off the top of my head, Billie-boy.

Of course, I'm not holding my breath waiting for an admission of error from
you.  The fact that the Italians of today have nothing in common with the
Romans of the Republic, or even the Empire, makes no impression on you
whatsoever.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:48:34 PDT 1995
Article: 5113 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: White Inventions
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:21:36 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4021 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5113

Pyro (amasters@wizvax.net) writes:
> Let me clarify:
> 
> Atom bomb

But... but, supposedly it would never have happened without EINSTEIN!

> Machine gun
> Nerve gas
> Most warplanes

Try ALL planes.

> Submarine (millitary)
> 
> Ok, let me dwell a bit on the last one. The first sub to sink a ship was 
> so deadly that it not only sunk the ship but also killed the crew of the 
> sub. This is the length that white men are willing to go to kill other 
> human beings? Are white people really less aggressive than any other 
> group? Why don't you smell what you have been shoveling?

Has anyone ever claimed that Whites are flower-sniffing, sandal-wearing
peaceniks?  Yes, the White race is unparallelled in its excellence at war,
among other pursuits.  Of course, that's just HORRIBLE to you.

> I'm a white male and you make me sick.

Likewise.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:48:54 PDT 1995
Article: 5147 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Miscegenation and the fall of civilization
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
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Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:20:58 GMT
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Bill Anderson (libwca@emory.edu) writes:
> On Fri, 26 May 1995, Les Griswold wrote:
> 
>> No, I just have neither the time nor the inclination to go through the
>> ENTIRE history of any one of the above-mentioned empires to explain my
>> point, only to have you whine back,"Diversity is strength!" or some
>> similar garbage.  You're dishonest enough to claim that miscegenation
>> had nothing significant to do with the fall of the Persian Empire, the
>> ancient Greek city-states, or the Roman Empire, so I have no illusions
>> about the semanticism and the outright lying you'd engage in.
> 
> "I have neither the time nor the inclination," on usenet, is usually
> equivalent to "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about"; in this
> case, patently so.

Well, you go ahead and believe what you like.  Ask me if I care.

> I'll state it plainly:  I know very little about the collapse of the Persian 
> Empire (although I suspect the Battle of Thermopylae may have had a bit
> more to do with it than "miscegenation") so I won't comment there, but
> "miscegenation" had little or nothing to do with the other two.  The Greek 
> city states collapsed primarily due to internicene warfare and the predations 
> of various empire-builders;

That's very interesting.  Wanna let me in on who these "various
empire-builders" were?  (I already know about the Romans, so don't
disappoint me)

> the collapse of the Roman Empire is still a hotly disputed topic,

"Hotly disputed topic?"  Where DO you come up with this?

> but I know of no reputable scholar who claims it came about because the
> Romans were marrying non-whites;

Try Dr. Elmer Pendell, _Why Civilizations Collapse_.  The main thrust of
his book is differential birthrates, but it doesn't take a genius to see
that WHO does the breeding is just as important as that breeding is done
at all.

> more rational explanations include the corruption of the bureacracy, a series 
> of mad or ineffectual rulers, military over-extension and atomization of the 
> populace following the decline of the Roman civic religion.

What?  Are you panning Christianity now as a civiliation destroying force?

These explanations are not "more rational".  They're "more evasive", as
they try to dodge the issue of miscegenation and differential birthrates,
in a silly attempt to avoid hurting feelings.

> If you have heretofore unrevealed
> facts that show the Romans were heavily involved in "miscegenation,"
> please put them forward; otherwise, I'll have to consider this more 
> patented Griswold smoke-blowing. > 

Considering how letie-libs always redefine words and terms to suit
themselves for the moment, I highly doubt that ANY productive debate can
come of this.  Wait, I can see it now:  "More patented Griswold evasion!" 
Well, be my guest to crow about your little victory.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:48:56 PDT 1995
Article: 5148 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Lizzie tells me about martial arts!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
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Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:29:41 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:5148 alt.politics.white-power:4061

 (lzaird@io.org) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Well, "Big D", martial arts are just that - arts of war.  They are not
>>restricted to the chop-sockey crap one sees in Bruce Lee movies.  Nor are
>>they an exclusively Asian field.
> 
> Well, big L, Asian martial arts has SHAPED hand-to-hand combat across 
> the planet...you can't get into a desent fist-fight anymore without 
> seeing shades of it, however poorly executed.

Really?  Hey, I've got some swamp-land in Florida you might like...

Just like the jewish "shaping" of our society, we must ask ourselves:  has
the cost been higher than the benefit?  In other words, have we been
snookered into paying too high a price for the supposed "benefits"?

> Although I believe it's the modern White-Supremacist who has perfected the 
> on-the-ground kick, most honorable of the arts... 

BWAHAHAHA!!!  Now we're going to see some more whining about "fair fighting".

Hey, Lizard, know what a dirty fighter is?  That's somebody who wins a
fight against you!

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:48:58 PDT 1995
Article: 5149 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Lizard the general!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q5m48$5iq@ionews.io.org>   
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:33:08 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:5149 alt.politics.white-power:4062

 (lzaird@io.org) writes:
> In article ,
> Les Griswold  wrote:
> 
>>Has anyone ever claimed that Whites are flower-sniffing, sandal-wearing
>>peaceniks?  Yes, the White race is unparallelled in its excellence at war,
>>among other pursuits.  Of course, that's just HORRIBLE to you.
> 
> You've belittled other races for thier violent streaks...hypocracy = Les.

Not really.  I'm just not a victim of the Kosher Konservative "What's good
for one race is good for ALL!"

The White race stands apart from all others.  It's foolish or evil to
apply the same standard to every featherless biped.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:49:14 PDT 1995
Article: 5167 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Hey ! Black ain't Beautiful
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6ltk$623@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3q67km$8mv@clam.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 14:51:58 GMT
Lines: 23

Peachox (peachox@aol.com) writes:
> If we want to focus on the statistics of what percent black population
> killed, raped, stole, etc., then of COURSE we are going to find a lot of
> stuff against their race.
> 
> But what about the other side of the statistics?  Who is on the other
> side?  I'm sure there has to be a nice number of WHITE people doing
> SOMETHING wrong in this country.  Is the point of these statistics to
> prove that the white race is PURE and the black race EVIL.  Hey, come on
> guys, we're not living in the 1600's.  This isn't THE SCARLET LETTER, and
> even if it were, the two culprits in that book were both WHITE.

I just love this liberal "rebuttal", which basically consists of "You
Whites ain't angels, either!"  No, the point of statistics like that is
NOT to "prove" that the White race is pure and that the Black race is
evil.  It's to point out ONE of the fallacies of liberal "thinking", which
tells us that the ONLY difference between Whites and Blacks is skin colour.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:49:17 PDT 1995
Article: 5169 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.asian.american
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: USA multicultural (Was: Immigration - more means less for all)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:    <3p94uf$o5p@agate.berkeley.edu> <3pa1mg$avs@gatekeeper.iis.ch.swissbank.com> <3pfaau$8d3@agate.berkeley.edu> <3psjnb$o53@gatekeeper.iis.ch.swissbank.com> >> >This country was built by the "founding fathers" - Europeans - >not later
>>immigrants. 
> 
> This statement by itself doesn't give recognition to those non-Europeans 
> who fought, worked and labored to build the pillars of this great 
> Nation.

So here's your big chance.

1)  WHO were these "non-Europeans" who fought, worked and laboured to
build the pillars of this great society?

2)  What, EXACTLY, did they contribute?

> This sounds like one of those David Duke in tones. Most of
> us who consider ourselves Europeans or with European ancestry think
> Europeanism is stressed more at the expense of other groups when
> ever we discuss this subject. The emphasis is always on race.

Doesn't that tell you something?

> What's wrong to giving recognition to those who earned it and are diffrent
> from us?

(since you put two questions adjacent to each other, implying that they
are linked, I've separated them and will answer them one at a time)

White Racists have no problem with giving credit where credit is due. 
However, we have BIG problems with fuzzy, ill-defined statements like
"multiculturalism" and "giving recognition to non-Europeans...".

> Is this not the very reasons that gave birth to multiculturalism? - 
> Our pride for our European ancestry without due recogniztion to others?

No.  There are MANY cultures within the White race.  What is being
practiced in the United States and Canada is multiRACIALISM.  There's a
BIG difference.

(snip)

> Even in major cultures there exists subculture. If we do recognize 
> this, then the culture we nurish today, will change in the future as
> our demographics change. Remeber, major culture means the majority 
> population. There are now predictions that in not too distant future
> the population of whites will be a minority. Prepare for this!! 
> Start learning about other cultures and accept multiculturalism, it
> may have our European ancestry tomorrow. Multiculturalism is a 
> strength not a weakness. 

If you are so naive as to believe that non-Whites will as willingly accept
the garbage about "we're all brothers!" and "one race - the HUMAN race!",
and will accord Whites the same respect as we accord them (remember, the
White race has supposedly wronged every other in the world), then I've got
a bridge for you...

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:49:19 PDT 1995
Article: 5170 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Sun Tzu... (was: Re: non-White inventions (sigh) again?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3ptm2f$fa5@lute.gcr.com> <3pnjdn$23j@lute.gcr.com>  
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:55:21 GMT
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4074 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5170


David Finley (finleyd@gcr.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
> 
>>David Finley (finleyd@gcr.com) writes:
> 
>>(snip)
> 
>>> BTW Rick, "Chink" is a slur. If you were to say that in the prescence of
>>> a group of most Asians, they would be justified in demonstrating another
>>> Asian innovation on you: Martial Arts! 
> 
>>Well, "Big D", martial arts are just that - arts of war.  They are not
>>restricted to the chop-sockey crap one sees in Bruce Lee movies.  Nor are
>>they an exclusively Asian field.

> Les,
> 
> I WILL agree with you that martial arts ARE more than "Chop Sockey". But I
> will remind you that THE first word on war was written in China. That first
> word is Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". It is considered good enough that it is
> considered one of the Classic works of military literature, and is still
> used as a "textbook" in many military schools, including in the USA.

So?  Everyone here is making it sound like the LAST word on military
tactics and strategy was ALSO written in China, and that in fact we
wouldn't know how to fight if it wasn't for the Asians... hmm... I recall
some bead-wearing peacenik foaming at the mouth about how "desperate"
Whites are to kill one another.  I wonder how he's gonna react to the
claim that the real founders of warfare are the Chinese... (probably by
ignoring it).

This is just one more instance of "if it comes from the White race, it's
evil.  If the exact same thing can be attributed to a non-White race, it's
great."

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 10:49:24 PDT 1995
Article: 5175 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Sun Tzu... (was: Re: non-White inventions (sigh) again?)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3ptm2f$fa5@lute.gcr.com> <3pnjdn$23j@lute.gcr.com>   
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 23:30:16 GMT
Lines: 35
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4105 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5175

Steve  Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les
> Griswold) wrote:
>  
>> This is just one more instance of "if it comes from the White race, it's
>> evil.  If the exact same thing can be attributed to a non-White race, it's
>> great."
> 
> We are not putting down whites or saying that white ideas are evil, Mr.
> President.

Sure, sure.  Let me guess what's next... "We dislike ALL forms of racism,
White or Black!"  Meanwhile, you're laughing behind your hand at the kooky
Niggers of Islam, but having a conniption fit over Aryan Nations.

(snip)

> But don't tell me any horror stories of blacks out producing whites and
> taking over the world or endangering your race. China and India both have
> populations greater than all of Africa! The Africans just push themselves
> to the limit of what the environment is willing to support. We can help
> them. Don't give up on them or belittle the power of education, Les.

I'm not giving up on them, because I never had any great expectations in
the first place.

Regarding education, well:  you can teach monkeys to ride bikes, you know.
 Doesn't make the world a big Coca-Cola commercial.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 12:05:45 PDT 1995
Article: 5189 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Miscegenation and the fall of civilization
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q7j5b$g98@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>    <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 18:29:19 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.discrimination:23823 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5189 misc.immigration.usa:2937 talk.politics.misc:196402 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:173057 alt.politics.correct:34939 soc.culture.usa:47535 soc.culture.african.american:71617

John Alexander Clarke (clarkej@er4.eng.ohio-state.edu) writes:
> Miscegenation is the nature of the United States.  If it were
> soooooooo bad and if miscegenation only led to collapse, this
> country would not be a powerful as it is.

BWAHAHAHA!!!  You call the U.S. powerful?  Powerful, old son, is more than
having tanks and jets and ships and nuclear missiles.  It's having the
balls to USE them.  America at the turn of the century was more powerful
than it is now, and they didn't have all the fancy technology that they do
now.  Hell, America in the 18th century was more powerful than it is now.

Imagine if the USS Liberty had been under the command of Stephen Decatur
in 1967.

Les



--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 12:05:49 PDT 1995
Article: 5191 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Lycurgus...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q7fs8$bpo@redstone.interpath.net>  <3ptm2f$fa5@lute.gcr.com> <3pnjdn$23j@lute.gcr.com>      Distribution: 
> 
> : Jeanne Kowalewski (jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu) wrote:

(snip)

> : > Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
> : >                 -Lycurgus
> 
> : Deep, huh?
> 
> : That guy "Lycurgus", who, Clark Griswold quotes must have had Griswold in
> : mind. However Lycurgus assumed that all people have minds.BTW why would
> : any God take notice of the likes of Griswold?

"This guy" Lycurgus was only the law-giver to Sparta, in the tenth century
B.C.  You know, Sparta, those guys who ate black broth, took no shit from
anyone?  Those real tough guys?  Well, that's them.  'Course, I'm not
surprised that he's totally unknown to you, what with a quote from Woody
Allen.  I suppose I should have taken something from Abby Hoffman to get
you on side.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 12:37:02 PDT 1995
Article: 4020 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.activism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject:  Faatz, get a grip
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q1bju$r11@kelly.teleport.com>  
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:31:26 GMT
Lines: 57
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4020 alt.politics.socialism.trotsky:3259 alt.activism:61102

Chris Faatz (cfaatz@teleport.com) writes:
> 
> Dear Friends, Comrades, and Colleagues:
> 
> I'm writing because of an interesting and disturbing upsurge of interest
> in the newsgroup alt.politics.socialism-trotsky by two Fascists of the most
> turgid and predictable type, Les Griswold and Rick Knight. Les and Rick are
> regular habitues of alt.politics.white.power, as those of you who monitor
> the racist newsgroups know. Now they seem to have discovered a.p.s.t., and,
> God alone knows why, have seen fit to pay some attention to the discussions
> that are going on there as well.

Chris, we've posted a few times, and not in the past three or so weeks. 
It's a little late for this, no?

But, I will simply repeat my invitation to all of you to head on over to
alt.politics.white-power (like I said, don't forget the hyphen, or you
won't get there.), where we don't have the spectre of "I'll tell your
sysadmin!".  See, "Nazis" aren't afraid of a little disagreement, contrary
to what you'd like to believe.

(snip)

> According to Canada's "Maclean's" magazine of May 8, an issue that is 
> devoted to a large extent to the racist right, both Les and Rick are 
> well-known fascists in Canada. Les has earned himself a particularly 
> noxious reputation. As "Maclean's" puts it:
> 
> "In the Ottawa suburb of Orleans, one white supremacist hotline was
> in full swing from a down-at-the-heels white clapboard bungalow with a
> 'beware of the dog' sign in the front window and Hector the Rotweiler
> standing guard at the front door. The home of Les Griswold, a ubiquitous
> right-wing voice on the Internet and a contributor to the Heritage Front's
> magazine, the house is also listed as the Canadian address of the National
> Alliance, the US organization founded by William Pierce, author of _The
> Turner Diaries_ [the "fictional" blueprint that inspired both the Order
> and McVeigh and cohorts in their crimes]. In soothing tones, the line urged
> callers looking for a 'white program' to telephone Pierce's 400-acre 
> headquarters in West Virginia for books and tapes to 'help you survive
> and prosper in the troubled times ahead.'"

UNFAIR!!!  My home is NOT "down-at-the-heels".

> If you'd like a taste more of what these fellers are purveying, I suggest
> you check out Don Black's Stormfront Web Page at 
> http://www.accesscom.net/stormfront/ If you can't access the Web, and
> would still like to get nauseous, e-mail me. I've archived some of this
> stuff. It's always best to know what the bad guys are thinking (if that's
> the right verb).

On Don's behalf, thanks!

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 12:37:13 PDT 1995
Article: 4057 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: "Anti-Nazis" on this NG?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6bga$ipn@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:01:30 GMT
Lines: 18

Marc InSane (msteier@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> Hey folks.  Something escapes me.  All of the anti-nazis on the NG
> would do better actively engaging these volk--directly and physically
> if need be.  If they sow, so should they reap.  They marched in skokie.
>  We should show up at Heyden Lake (or however you spell their NW
> stronghold).  

1)  What the hell are anti-nazis doing on this NG in the first place? 
Can't they read?

2)  Come on and try it.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 12:37:15 PDT 1995
Article: 4058 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: if insecurity were a solid . . .
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6cnc$rpj@news.scsn.net> <3q3lt2$h5u@news.scsn.net> <3q4ue9$434@er5.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:05:54 GMT
Lines: 19

David Padgett (davidp@scsn.net) writes:

(snip)

> if you're going to cry in public about it, i'll postpone putting you
> on the ignore list for awhile longer, but how about trying to make
> some sense.

He, like any liberal, ALWAYS cries in public about ANY problem he's got. 
Guess they don't understand that the '80s are over.  B'sides, don't ask
him to start making some sense - that's like asking the king's men to put
Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 12:37:23 PDT 1995
Article: 4077 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Our Pet Nazis: Griswold and Knight
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q1bju$r11@kelly.teleport.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:57:03 GMT
Lines: 20

Daren Brittell (darenb@mindcrime) writes:
> On 25 May 1995, Chris Faatz wrote:
> 
>> of the international left. These fascists are of only marginal interest;
>> for the most part, they're only disruptive, and drive curious people away
>> from the discussions and large questions that are being looked at, sometimes
>> with a long-overdue critical eye.
> 
> Allright Les and Rick!  Way to go!

You should SEE the bouquet of flowers we got, too, not to mention the
certificate for 25% off at a local beauticians.  I tell ya, this Nazi
business is paying off pretty well.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:03:48 PDT 1995
Article: 5209 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Hey ! Black ain't Beautiful
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q5t4v$5n9@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:02:04 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4188 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5209

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> Tommy the Tourist (Anon User)  wrote:
> 
>    According to 1992 FBI Crime Statistics:
>    
>    10 White men raped black women.
>    
>    9300+ black men raped White women.
>    
>    If black was beautiful, how come every discriminating 
>    rapist rapes a white women?
>    
> 1) Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with the attractiveness of the
> victim. Not at all. A fairly large number of rape victims (I don't have
> the stats handy) are elderly women. It's a violent crime, and the ultimate
> motivation is to exert power and degrade the victim. 

You sure seem to know a lot about what goes through a rapist's mind. 
Wonder why that is...?
 
> 2) According to the World Almanac (its source is the FBI Uniform Crime
> Reports, 1992), there were 109,060 forcible rapes in 1992. Your statistics
> address less than 10 percent of the total. Assuming that your stats are
> reliable (a huge assumption--see below), rape is hardly the
> black-victimizing-white issue you'd like to make it. It's 90%
> intra-racial.
> 
> 3) We've seen specious quotes of FBI stats before. Please cite the
> document and page number from which you got this information. If it's a US
> government document, it should have a document and/or ISBN number. My
> money says that you've never seen this document, and are quoting sources
> at second or third hand.

So?  Does that automatically make them WRONG?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:03:50 PDT 1995
Article: 5210 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lycurgus...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q7fs8$bpo@redstone.interpath.net>  <3ptm2f$fa5@lute.gcr.com> <3pnjdn$23j@lute.gcr.com>     
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:06:35 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4189 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5210

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>   "This guy" Lycurgus was only the law-giver to Sparta, in the tenth century
>    B.C.  You know, Sparta, those guys who ate black broth, took no shit from
>    anyone?  Those real tough guys?  Well, that's them.
> 
> Yeah. Those real tough guys who couldn't take down Athens without rallying
> the rest of the Greek Isles to their cause. Of course, you can bring down
> a stag if you put enough dogs at its throat...Where have I heard that
> before?

Actually, Andy, you'll be interested to know that the Spartans had a
prohibition against laying siege to walled towns.

As a matter of fact, you CAN bring down a stag if you put enough dogs at
its throat.  You can also get the White race out of the way if you snooker
two tribes of it into fighting each other over some silly made-up reason
(not talking about the Greek city-states, though).

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:26:24 PDT 1995
Article: 4020 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.socialism.trotsky,alt.activism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject:  Faatz, get a grip
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q1bju$r11@kelly.teleport.com>  
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 19:31:26 GMT
Lines: 57
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4020 alt.politics.socialism.trotsky:3259 alt.activism:61102

Chris Faatz (cfaatz@teleport.com) writes:
> 
> Dear Friends, Comrades, and Colleagues:
> 
> I'm writing because of an interesting and disturbing upsurge of interest
> in the newsgroup alt.politics.socialism-trotsky by two Fascists of the most
> turgid and predictable type, Les Griswold and Rick Knight. Les and Rick are
> regular habitues of alt.politics.white.power, as those of you who monitor
> the racist newsgroups know. Now they seem to have discovered a.p.s.t., and,
> God alone knows why, have seen fit to pay some attention to the discussions
> that are going on there as well.

Chris, we've posted a few times, and not in the past three or so weeks. 
It's a little late for this, no?

But, I will simply repeat my invitation to all of you to head on over to
alt.politics.white-power (like I said, don't forget the hyphen, or you
won't get there.), where we don't have the spectre of "I'll tell your
sysadmin!".  See, "Nazis" aren't afraid of a little disagreement, contrary
to what you'd like to believe.

(snip)

> According to Canada's "Maclean's" magazine of May 8, an issue that is 
> devoted to a large extent to the racist right, both Les and Rick are 
> well-known fascists in Canada. Les has earned himself a particularly 
> noxious reputation. As "Maclean's" puts it:
> 
> "In the Ottawa suburb of Orleans, one white supremacist hotline was
> in full swing from a down-at-the-heels white clapboard bungalow with a
> 'beware of the dog' sign in the front window and Hector the Rotweiler
> standing guard at the front door. The home of Les Griswold, a ubiquitous
> right-wing voice on the Internet and a contributor to the Heritage Front's
> magazine, the house is also listed as the Canadian address of the National
> Alliance, the US organization founded by William Pierce, author of _The
> Turner Diaries_ [the "fictional" blueprint that inspired both the Order
> and McVeigh and cohorts in their crimes]. In soothing tones, the line urged
> callers looking for a 'white program' to telephone Pierce's 400-acre 
> headquarters in West Virginia for books and tapes to 'help you survive
> and prosper in the troubled times ahead.'"

UNFAIR!!!  My home is NOT "down-at-the-heels".

> If you'd like a taste more of what these fellers are purveying, I suggest
> you check out Don Black's Stormfront Web Page at 
> http://www.accesscom.net/stormfront/ If you can't access the Web, and
> would still like to get nauseous, e-mail me. I've archived some of this
> stuff. It's always best to know what the bad guys are thinking (if that's
> the right verb).

On Don's behalf, thanks!

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:26:31 PDT 1995
Article: 4057 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: "Anti-Nazis" on this NG?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6bga$ipn@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:01:30 GMT
Lines: 18

Marc InSane (msteier@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> Hey folks.  Something escapes me.  All of the anti-nazis on the NG
> would do better actively engaging these volk--directly and physically
> if need be.  If they sow, so should they reap.  They marched in skokie.
>  We should show up at Heyden Lake (or however you spell their NW
> stronghold).  

1)  What the hell are anti-nazis doing on this NG in the first place? 
Can't they read?

2)  Come on and try it.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:26:33 PDT 1995
Article: 4058 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: if insecurity were a solid . . .
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6cnc$rpj@news.scsn.net> <3q3lt2$h5u@news.scsn.net> <3q4ue9$434@er5.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:05:54 GMT
Lines: 19

David Padgett (davidp@scsn.net) writes:

(snip)

> if you're going to cry in public about it, i'll postpone putting you
> on the ignore list for awhile longer, but how about trying to make
> some sense.

He, like any liberal, ALWAYS cries in public about ANY problem he's got. 
Guess they don't understand that the '80s are over.  B'sides, don't ask
him to start making some sense - that's like asking the king's men to put
Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:26:36 PDT 1995
Article: 4063 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rap,alt.punk
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Nazi Skins Get Ass Kicked in St Paul
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <102404Z27051995@anon.penet.fi>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 11:01:08 GMT
Lines: 37
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.skinheads:15828 alt.politics.white-power:4063 alt.rap:31359 alt.punk:10909

 (an271302@anon.penet.fi) writes:

(snip)

> 1 - The reason why I chose to go through a anon server and not use my 
> real name is because I don't want some punk-assed-13-year-old-Hitler-
> wannabe-dumbfuck-redneck melonhead prank calling my house, my relatives 
> house and anyone else with the same last name's house.  
> 
> 2 - Some idiot mentioned something about "cooperation with the police", 
> yeah right.  The police fulfilled their usual role of protecting their 
> own kind.  The two people who got arrested were both on the anti-racist 
> side.  The only reason it wasn't worse at the Park was because people 
> played it very cool and gave the cops enough bullshit to keep them from 
> snooping around too much.  Also as far as the events later in the 
> evening, if that had happened in Mpls where most of the nazi's dads
> would have been there on-duty and in uniform we probably would have been
> crushed by riot batons and tear gas. 

Oh, so you'll protest the "Nazis" as long as it's SAFE, or at least not
likely to result in risk.

>  3 - In response to all the self-righteous liberal indignation about us 
> being "fascists" or "though-police" - spare me.  These nazi skins are the 
> same no-life motherfuckers who enjoy (and revel in) beating up people who 
> are gay - just because they're gay, beating up (and killing) people who 
> are black - just because they're black, beating up (and killing) people 
> who are asian - just because they're asian, etc etc.

Pretty serious allegations.  Care to back them up?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bzs@world.std.com Sun May 28 18:27:30 PDT 1995
Article: 4182 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Gettin' land (was: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!)
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Sat, 27 May 1995 09:58:36 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3q65g8$2ebo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
	
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 21:55:00 GMT
Lines: 15
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4182 alt.revisionism:21664


From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>> The same "warlike Aryans" who got the crap kicked out of them by the 
>> mongrelized, Jewish-controlled mob in WWII?
>
>You can always bring down a stag if you get enough dogs at its throat.

And, unfortunately for you, Bambi, there will always be enough fine,
honest and brave dogs.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun May 28 18:27:35 PDT 1995
Article: 4188 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Hey ! Black ain't Beautiful
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q5t4v$5n9@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:02:04 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4188 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5209

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> Tommy the Tourist (Anon User)  wrote:
> 
>    According to 1992 FBI Crime Statistics:
>    
>    10 White men raped black women.
>    
>    9300+ black men raped White women.
>    
>    If black was beautiful, how come every discriminating 
>    rapist rapes a white women?
>    
> 1) Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with the attractiveness of the
> victim. Not at all. A fairly large number of rape victims (I don't have
> the stats handy) are elderly women. It's a violent crime, and the ultimate
> motivation is to exert power and degrade the victim. 

You sure seem to know a lot about what goes through a rapist's mind. 
Wonder why that is...?
 
> 2) According to the World Almanac (its source is the FBI Uniform Crime
> Reports, 1992), there were 109,060 forcible rapes in 1992. Your statistics
> address less than 10 percent of the total. Assuming that your stats are
> reliable (a huge assumption--see below), rape is hardly the
> black-victimizing-white issue you'd like to make it. It's 90%
> intra-racial.
> 
> 3) We've seen specious quotes of FBI stats before. Please cite the
> document and page number from which you got this information. If it's a US
> government document, it should have a document and/or ISBN number. My
> money says that you've never seen this document, and are quoting sources
> at second or third hand.

So?  Does that automatically make them WRONG?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bzs@world.std.com Mon May 29 04:53:41 PDT 1995
Article: 21664 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Gettin' land (was: Re: Expulsions! Expulsions!)
In-Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA's message of Sat, 27 May 1995 09:58:36 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3q65g8$2ebo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
	
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 21:55:00 GMT
Lines: 15
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4182 alt.revisionism:21664


From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
>> The same "warlike Aryans" who got the crap kicked out of them by the 
>> mongrelized, Jewish-controlled mob in WWII?
>
>You can always bring down a stag if you get enough dogs at its throat.

And, unfortunately for you, Bambi, there will always be enough fine,
honest and brave dogs.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 05:13:01 PDT 1995
Article: 5209 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Hey ! Black ain't Beautiful
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q5t4v$5n9@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:02:04 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4188 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5209

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> Tommy the Tourist (Anon User)  wrote:
> 
>    According to 1992 FBI Crime Statistics:
>    
>    10 White men raped black women.
>    
>    9300+ black men raped White women.
>    
>    If black was beautiful, how come every discriminating 
>    rapist rapes a white women?
>    
> 1) Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with the attractiveness of the
> victim. Not at all. A fairly large number of rape victims (I don't have
> the stats handy) are elderly women. It's a violent crime, and the ultimate
> motivation is to exert power and degrade the victim. 

You sure seem to know a lot about what goes through a rapist's mind. 
Wonder why that is...?
 
> 2) According to the World Almanac (its source is the FBI Uniform Crime
> Reports, 1992), there were 109,060 forcible rapes in 1992. Your statistics
> address less than 10 percent of the total. Assuming that your stats are
> reliable (a huge assumption--see below), rape is hardly the
> black-victimizing-white issue you'd like to make it. It's 90%
> intra-racial.
> 
> 3) We've seen specious quotes of FBI stats before. Please cite the
> document and page number from which you got this information. If it's a US
> government document, it should have a document and/or ISBN number. My
> money says that you've never seen this document, and are quoting sources
> at second or third hand.

So?  Does that automatically make them WRONG?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 05:13:04 PDT 1995
Article: 5210 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lycurgus...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q7fs8$bpo@redstone.interpath.net>  <3ptm2f$fa5@lute.gcr.com> <3pnjdn$23j@lute.gcr.com>     
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:06:35 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4189 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5210

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>   "This guy" Lycurgus was only the law-giver to Sparta, in the tenth century
>    B.C.  You know, Sparta, those guys who ate black broth, took no shit from
>    anyone?  Those real tough guys?  Well, that's them.
> 
> Yeah. Those real tough guys who couldn't take down Athens without rallying
> the rest of the Greek Isles to their cause. Of course, you can bring down
> a stag if you put enough dogs at its throat...Where have I heard that
> before?

Actually, Andy, you'll be interested to know that the Spartans had a
prohibition against laying siege to walled towns.

As a matter of fact, you CAN bring down a stag if you put enough dogs at
its throat.  You can also get the White race out of the way if you snooker
two tribes of it into fighting each other over some silly made-up reason
(not talking about the Greek city-states, though).

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 05:13:06 PDT 1995
Article: 5211 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,misc.immigration.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Miscegenation and the fall of civilization
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:     <3pbd01$g1q@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>     
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:14:17 GMT
Lines: 28
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.nationalism.white:5211 misc.immigration.usa:2948 talk.politics.misc:196466 alt.discrimination:23833 alt.politics.correct:34949 soc.culture.usa:47548 soc.culture.african.american:71645

Sigurd Meldal (sigurd@ii.uib.no) writes:
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>> No, I just have neither the time nor the inclination to go through the
>> ENTIRE history of any one of the above-mentioned empires to explain my
>> point, only to have you whine back,"Diversity is strength!" or some
>> similar garbage.  You're dishonest enough to claim that miscegenation
>> had nothing significant to do with the fall of the Persian Empire, the
>> ancient Greek city-states, or the Roman Empire, so I have no illusions
>> about the semanticism and the outright lying you'd engage in.
> 
> Please have pity on the rest of us who are just listening in: could you
> offer evidence or cite reputable sources identifying miscegenation as a
> key ingredient in the fall of these empires and city-states?
>
> Looking forward to your enlightening answer,

Somehow, I doubt it.  More likely, you're looking for someone to pay
attention to you.

Les



--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 05:13:08 PDT 1995
Article: 5212 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lycurgus...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q82qj$mkg@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <3q7fs8$bpo@redstone.interpath.net>  <3ptm2f$fa5@lute.gcr.com> <3pnjdn$23j@lute.gcr.com>     
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:11:04 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4190 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5212

Derek Bell (dbell@maths.tcd.ie) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
>>"This guy" Lycurgus was only the law-giver to Sparta, in the tenth century
>>B.C.  You know, Sparta, those guys who ate black broth, took no shit from
>>anyone?  Those real tough guys?  Well, that's them.
> 
> 	Oh yeah! I remember them! They got their asses whupped by the Persians!

At odds of three hundred Spartans to several tens of THOUSANDS of
Persians, that's not too bad.  Especially considering that one of the
Spartans' "allies" betrayed them to the Persians; otherwise, the followers
of Leonidas could have held Thermopylae indefintely.

> A visitor to Sparta said that with the quality of the food the Spartans cooked,
> it was no wonder the Spartans looked forward to dying!

So the Spartans weren't hedonists.  To them, there were things more
important than what you could shove in your mouth.  And this makes them
something to be laughed at because...

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 20:41:55 PDT 1995
Article: 4057 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: "Anti-Nazis" on this NG?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6bga$ipn@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:01:30 GMT
Lines: 18

Marc InSane (msteier@ix.netcom.com) writes:
> Hey folks.  Something escapes me.  All of the anti-nazis on the NG
> would do better actively engaging these volk--directly and physically
> if need be.  If they sow, so should they reap.  They marched in skokie.
>  We should show up at Heyden Lake (or however you spell their NW
> stronghold).  

1)  What the hell are anti-nazis doing on this NG in the first place? 
Can't they read?

2)  Come on and try it.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 20:41:57 PDT 1995
Article: 4058 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: if insecurity were a solid . . .
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3q6cnc$rpj@news.scsn.net> <3q3lt2$h5u@news.scsn.net> <3q4ue9$434@er5.rutgers.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 10:05:54 GMT
Lines: 19

David Padgett (davidp@scsn.net) writes:

(snip)

> if you're going to cry in public about it, i'll postpone putting you
> on the ignore list for awhile longer, but how about trying to make
> some sense.

He, like any liberal, ALWAYS cries in public about ANY problem he's got. 
Guess they don't understand that the '80s are over.  B'sides, don't ask
him to start making some sense - that's like asking the king's men to put
Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 20:42:01 PDT 1995
Article: 4063 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rap,alt.punk
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Nazi Skins Get Ass Kicked in St Paul
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <102404Z27051995@anon.penet.fi>  
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 11:01:08 GMT
Lines: 37
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.skinheads:15828 alt.politics.white-power:4063 alt.rap:31359 alt.punk:10909

 (an271302@anon.penet.fi) writes:

(snip)

> 1 - The reason why I chose to go through a anon server and not use my 
> real name is because I don't want some punk-assed-13-year-old-Hitler-
> wannabe-dumbfuck-redneck melonhead prank calling my house, my relatives 
> house and anyone else with the same last name's house.  
> 
> 2 - Some idiot mentioned something about "cooperation with the police", 
> yeah right.  The police fulfilled their usual role of protecting their 
> own kind.  The two people who got arrested were both on the anti-racist 
> side.  The only reason it wasn't worse at the Park was because people 
> played it very cool and gave the cops enough bullshit to keep them from 
> snooping around too much.  Also as far as the events later in the 
> evening, if that had happened in Mpls where most of the nazi's dads
> would have been there on-duty and in uniform we probably would have been
> crushed by riot batons and tear gas. 

Oh, so you'll protest the "Nazis" as long as it's SAFE, or at least not
likely to result in risk.

>  3 - In response to all the self-righteous liberal indignation about us 
> being "fascists" or "though-police" - spare me.  These nazi skins are the 
> same no-life motherfuckers who enjoy (and revel in) beating up people who 
> are gay - just because they're gay, beating up (and killing) people who 
> are black - just because they're black, beating up (and killing) people 
> who are asian - just because they're asian, etc etc.

Pretty serious allegations.  Care to back them up?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 20:42:06 PDT 1995
Article: 4077 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Our Pet Nazis: Griswold and Knight
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q1bju$r11@kelly.teleport.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 11:57:03 GMT
Lines: 20

Daren Brittell (darenb@mindcrime) writes:
> On 25 May 1995, Chris Faatz wrote:
> 
>> of the international left. These fascists are of only marginal interest;
>> for the most part, they're only disruptive, and drive curious people away
>> from the discussions and large questions that are being looked at, sometimes
>> with a long-overdue critical eye.
> 
> Allright Les and Rick!  Way to go!

You should SEE the bouquet of flowers we got, too, not to mention the
certificate for 25% off at a local beauticians.  I tell ya, this Nazi
business is paying off pretty well.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon May 29 20:42:51 PDT 1995
Article: 4188 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Hey ! Black ain't Beautiful
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3q5t4v$5n9@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 22:02:04 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4188 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5209

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> Tommy the Tourist (Anon User)  wrote:
> 
>    According to 1992 FBI Crime Statistics:
>    
>    10 White men raped black women.
>    
>    9300+ black men raped White women.
>    
>    If black was beautiful, how come every discriminating 
>    rapist rapes a white women?
>    
> 1) Rape has nothing whatsoever to do with the attractiveness of the
> victim. Not at all. A fairly large number of rape victims (I don't have
> the stats handy) are elderly women. It's a violent crime, and the ultimate
> motivation is to exert power and degrade the victim. 

You sure seem to know a lot about what goes through a rapist's mind. 
Wonder why that is...?
 
> 2) According to the World Almanac (its source is the FBI Uniform Crime
> Reports, 1992), there were 109,060 forcible rapes in 1992. Your statistics
> address less than 10 percent of the total. Assuming that your stats are
> reliable (a huge assumption--see below), rape is hardly the
> black-victimizing-white issue you'd like to make it. It's 90%
> intra-racial.
> 
> 3) We've seen specious quotes of FBI stats before. Please cite the
> document and page number from which you got this information. If it's a US
> government document, it should have a document and/or ISBN number. My
> money says that you've never seen this document, and are quoting sources
> at second or third hand.

So?  Does that automatically make them WRONG?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 16:57:17 PDT 1995
Article: 21687 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Phenol injections and brain-bashing
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qboqt$fhr@chinacat.cwa.com> <3qb9ar$365m@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:59:17 GMT
Lines: 42
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.revisionism:21687 alt.politics.white-power:4248

Elena Mills (mills@psi.com) writes:
> In article <3qb9ar$365m@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>,  writes:
>  
>> Les, the posts on this are clear, to everyone except you.  Danny has posted 
>> on the bashing of babies' heads against walls.  He has added that, as far as 
>> he knows, it was not a widespread practice, but rather confined to a few 
>> sadists in one camp, if memory serves.  
> 
> Actually, it's remarkable how ubiquitous was this practice of picking
> infants up by their little legs and then swinging them, bashing in
> their skulls on curbs, walls, whatever was close and hard.

Elena, don't do this.  The head-bashers are trying to establish ONE thing,
ie that head bashings only occurred infrequently, and along you come
telling us that, for all intents and purposes, to be a Nazi was to be a
baby-brain-basher.

> There are numerous such accounts from the Warsaw ghetto, and just
> recently there was a similar account posted to soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
> that took place in Ravensbruck.
> 
>> Other means were also used.  A woman 
>> entering Belzec saw babies and small children simply shot.  In Auschwitz, 
>> they were gassed.  Still ended up very dead though.
>> 
>> The evidence of the phenol injections in overwhelming.  No one has tried to 
>> say that since the baby bashing occurred, the phenol injections must also 
>> have occurred.  All that has been said is that they _both_ occurred.

You have it backwards, Gordie (why am I not surprised?)  The allegations
go like this:

"Phenol injections are documented, and Mr. Keren posted it here. 
Therefore, the bashings of babies' heads ALSO occurred."

Les



--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 21:54:37 PDT 1995
Article: 5240 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Just Say No to Racial Mixing
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qbkol$arr@er5.rutgers.edu> <3qb63l$327@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:18:25 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4237 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5240

The Sub-genius (laramary@eden.rutgers.edu) writes:

(snip)

>>and sit and smell the urine and feces.
> 
> 	Obviously, you have never really been to the inner-city.  I
> think you watch too much TV, Sparky...

Why's that, Sub-human?  Does it smell like roses in the inner-city?

(snip)

> 	You don't know shit, Sparky.

And if there's one thing the Sub-Genius knows, it's shit!

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 21:54:40 PDT 1995
Article: 5242 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!emf.emf.net!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lizard gets downright silly
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <3qalu8$ddn@ionews.io.org> <3q8h93$851@ionews.io.org>    
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:30:52 GMT
Lines: 25
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4241 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5242

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
>    Hitler didn't force ANYONE into battle, at any time.  They volunteered. 
>    There's a considerable difference, ya know.
> 
> What is your source for this assertion? It is at odds with at least one
> first-hand account I have heard--specifically, a man who was drafted at 15
> (when Hitler Youth groups were hastily converted into combat units),
> recovering from head injuries on the Russian front at 16, and watching his
> first baseball game in an American P.O.W. camp a few months later.

Andy, I'm sure that there are ALWAYS people who are gonna bitch and whine
about being somewhere they're being shot at.  However, I dount that this
little anecdote represents the unanimous feelings of all under-18s in
Germany in 1945.  Although this isn't Berlin (which I suspect you're
talking about), the unit _Hitlerjugend_ which fought in the Ardennes in
late 1944/early 1945 wasn't composed of recovering wounded (_Hitler's
Teutonic Knights_, Bruce McQuarrie).

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 21:54:42 PDT 1995
Article: 5243 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!emf.emf.net!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Lizard gets downright silly
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qbp40$5jc@ionews.io.org> <3qalu8$ddn@ionews.io.org>   
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:38:07 GMT
Lines: 30
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4242 alt.politics.nationalism.white:5243

 (lzaird@io.org) writes:

(snip)

>>Blah, blah, blah... this should be on alt.revisionism.  Or are you too
>>stupid for them?  Seems hard to believe.
> 
> This, also is covered ground Les... Remember?  You and a bunch of other 
> coneheads tried to prove there was no Holocaust, Ken McVay came and made 
> fools of you.  Remember that now?

Oh, yeah, Ken McOyVay REALLY made a fool of me.
 
>>> So who did Hitler force into battle near the end?  He was running out of 
>>> troops for the motherland.
>>Hitler didn't force ANYONE into battle, at any time.  They volunteered. 
>>There's a considerable difference, ya know.
> 
> Wehter he forced them or not, there's a big difference between 
> battle-ready and cannon-fodder... Guess who the kids and seniors were.

Considering that the Germans were fighting tooth-and-nail to defend Berlin
>from  the depredations of the invading Russians, I guess the fact that they
couldn't field the Coldstream Guards WAS pretty cannon-fodderish of them.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 22:11:21 PDT 1995
Article: 4235 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: New game!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qakki$hdp@bell.maths.tcd.ie> 
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 10:59:56 GMT
Lines: 20


Derek Bell (dbell@maths.tcd.ie) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
>>Example:  I think Lane Singer and Joan Shields are really the same person
>>because you never see them on the boards at the same time! (just an
>>example).
> 
> 	I wonder who Les will match me up with, just for curiosity's sake.

Jeanne Kowalewski, definitely.  Why?  Well, you both have the same
flighty, light-weight content to your messages.  You never propose
anything, just criticize what others write (geez, I'm falling into the
"all liberals are idjuts" trap)

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 22:11:24 PDT 1995
Article: 4236 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.rap,alt.punk
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Nazi Skins Get Ass Kicked in St Paul
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qb1ep$fc5@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <3q92k4$6bq@ionews.io.org> <102404Z27051995@anon.penet.fi>  
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:09:37 GMT
Lines: 39
Xref: news.port.island.net alt.politics.white-power:4236 alt.skinheads:16002 alt.rap:31419 alt.punk:10954

alexander feygin (feygin@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu) writes:
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) writes:
> } > It's never safe when you're protesting Nazis, they make sure of it...but 
> } > Les, you know all of this.  They broker in intimidation, and if there 
> } > were more nazis (and thank god there isn't) all you'd see is people 
> } > being beaten and killed for what they think.
> } Really?  Gee, how many people have been killed by "Nazis" in the last,
> } say, ten years?  Compare that number who are killed in, say, any large
> } city in ONE DAY.
> 
> It doesn't matter how many.  The fact is that nazism is a lot more
> dangerous to a society than street crime.  People getting killed
> because of money or other such things is a fact of life because of gun
> proliferation.  people getting killed because of their ethnic origin
> is completely different, and a lot scarier.

"It doesn't matter how many."  'Scuse me?  You guys just KNOW that Naziism
is a bad thing, so reality doesn't matter, hmm?

'Scuse me again, Alexie, but whether one gets killed over money or over
ethnicity, he's just as dead.  And what's this shit about "gun
proliferation"?

> } > Countless hours of videotape taken over the years.  The most recent 
> } > footage I've seen was of the aryan he-man from RAHOWA, bravely kicking a 
> } > 115lbs anti-racist protester in the face repeatedly with docks...while 
> } > she was down, and while he was flanked by freinds.  What a man he is.   
> } That's two years old, pallie.  Get current.
> 
> And the Holocaust is fifty years old, pallie.  Fuck you, nazi fuck.

That's right.  But, it keeps being dragged up, and thrown in our faces
like WE did it.

Les

--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 22:11:26 PDT 1995
Article: 4238 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: Nazi Skins Get Ass Kicked in St Paul
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qb2da$h4g@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> <3qamj4$e58@ionews.io.org> <3q92k4$6bq@ionews.io.org> <102404Z27051995@anon.penet.fi>   
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:13:13 GMT
Lines: 17

alexander feygin (feygin@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu) writes:

(snip - predictable blather deleted)

> Personally I thinking Nazis like Les Griswold deserve nothing less
> than painful anal rape by a large burly black man...

Geez, I don't remember who was the chief proponent of "Nazis should get it
up the ass!".  I think we could do some more liberal matching.  Anybody
out there remember?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 22:11:29 PDT 1995
Article: 4244 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!emf.emf.net!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: New game!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:25:14 GMT
Lines: 17

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:

(snip - Andy honked that I suggested he's really Kevin Filan, and that he
"fields the insults")

> I can only assume that the above was a troll, and that Les (note: no
> "humorous" misspellings, now or ever) is trying to taunt me into
> abandoning argument in favor of hairy-toothed flame wars.

Andy, I couldn't care less what you do.

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus


From bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue May 30 22:11:31 PDT 1995
Article: 4245 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!news.uoregon.edu!emf.emf.net!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn946
From: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Subject: Re: What *incredible* intellect! (was pet nazis)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn946@freenet3.carleton.ca (Les Griswold)
Reply-To: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <3qbjr9$g3u@kelly.teleport.com>  
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 11:31:58 GMT
Lines: 17

Chris Faatz (cfaatz@teleport.com) writes:
> Boy, Les and fans really demonstrate the diamond-hard nature of their
> ideologial determination and the clarity and perspicacity of their 
> views in the thread, "Our Pet Nazis," don't they? 
> 
> Based on their arguments alone, not to mention that of their minions
> and hangers-on, I'll just have to re-think my politics *entirely.*

Hi, Chris!  Glad you finally made it over!  Where, though, are all the
rest of your pals?

Les


--
Those whom the gods would destroy, first from their minds they take reason.
		-Lycurgus



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