The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/graves.george/1995/graves.1295


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec  4 07:21:01 PST 1995
Article: 9729 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Why everyone loves Nelson Mendela( whoever he may be)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:35:53 -0800
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Lucien Lenoire wrote:
> 
> I think it quite possible that the ignoramus who first posted this was
> referring to the first democratically elected president of the Republic
> of South Africa.  His name is Nelson MANDELA.  He was imprisoned for 27
> years for what in most countries is not a crime: he wanted equal rights
> in the country he was born in.  What a terrible crime. Only a right wing
> blockhead would consider this a crime.  Wake up racists, the world is
> CHANGING!!!!!!!!
>                                 Lucien Lenoire

Yes, it is changing. The question, it seems to me, is simply this:
Will this "new world order" bring the standard of civilisation
in the emerging third world up to first world levels, or will it
bring the achievements of the first world down to the level of
the third world. Equality is a two lane road. Which is another
way of saying "be careful when you embrace the beast, the 
beast has sharp claws and teeth". In the U.S.A. we gave black
people full rights in the '60s. They can live where they want,
eat where they want, vote without literacy tests and "poll
taxes"; the whole ball of wax.  Were they ready? Did we do
right? Our blacks are much more sophisticated than African
blacks who knew nothing of European civilisation 100 years
ago, and who still, for the most part, have a tribal mentality,
 yet, most American blacks don't have any idea of the
RESPONSIBILITIES which go with freedom. They say, the white
man keeps them down. Yet, they are all to quick to be victims,
ready to endorse any politician who promises to help them 
to stop being victims. They don't understand (I'm talking 
generally here. Of course there are blacks who do not fall 
into this category) that ceasing to be victims is something that
they have to generate from within their own communities. The 
government can't do it, and when it tries to, it is generally
for some ulterior motive such as pandering for votes.
I don't think that blacks in the U.S.A. are ready for the type
of freedom that they have been given (or won, or whatever
you want to call it). And I believe that African blacks are even
less prepared to handle their own affairs in a modern, Euro-
centric world. A look at some of S.A.'s neighbors certainly
bears this out.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec  5 08:27:42 PST 1995
Article: 15050 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 19:11:14 +0000
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KT wrote:
> 
> gmgraves@aimnet.com (George Graves) says:
> 
> >Fragano Ledgister wrote:
> >> KT (speedy5@ibm.net) wrote:
> 
> >> : The Atlantean culture did spread all over the world, so naturally traces of
> >> : Atlantean culture can be found several places on the planet - and has been.
> >> : ---
> >>
> >> Could you give us some examples?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;
> >> She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> >No, he can't because Ignatius Donnelly, the 19th Century novelist who
> >made-up all of this Atlantis-the-technically-advanced-race crap
> >is dead!
> >
> >George Graves
> 
> Donnelly didn't make this up. What he wrote, was partly based on facts aswell
> as some of his own ideas.
> 
> The theory that Atlantis existed and stuff, is based on facts - ONLY!!!
> ---
> Kenny

What facts? If you mean the two Plato Dialogs "Timaeus" and "Critas", 
you should really read them. There is so little real information in them
that they could apply to anywhere at anytime. As I have stated before, 
Plato got his information from a Mycenean Greek historian named Solen,
who got it from the Egyptians. Apparently, Solen spoke no Egyptian, and 
the Egyptians had little Greek. Solen misinterpreted "Beyond the Nile
Delta" as "Beyond the Pillars of Hercules" for the location of the place, thus
starting the myth that it was in the Atlantic Ocean (unnamed and unknown
in Solen's time). He also misinterpreted "900 years ago" as 9000 years
ago, thus starting the myth that Atlantis was destroyed before the begining
of recorded history. 
Other than that, There is no information about Atlantis except for that
which was invented by Donnelly. So much for your facts.
If you have facts that I have missed, I would be happy to see them. Please
do not hesitate to post them!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec  5 08:27:43 PST 1995
Article: 15072 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 23:28:46 +0000
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Rajiv K. Gandhi wrote:
> 
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
> > > Eh? Great logic here little man. Writing is most definately an invention
> > > of the black man. The first person to write something down was more likely
> > > than not, a black man or woman.
> >
> > And, of course, in Rajiv's world, "more likely than not" translates into
> > "I'm right, you're wrong, so THERE!".
> >
> 
> No Griswold, in fact it does not. But neither you nor KT have provided any
> tangible proof to show that writing was a 'western european' invention.
> Nor have you provided proof to show that Atlantis existed, nor have you
> provided proof to show that Hitler had blond roots.

I'm begining to wonder where all of the people (especially the liberals)
on this NG were when their school systems were teaching REAL history.
The young ones, of course, have an excuse. Real history isn't taught any
more. What has replaced it is some left-wing touchy-feely "minority
studies" and "diversity sensitivity" hogwash.
Writing was invented (to the best of anyone's knowledge) by the Summerian
culture. These people lived, starting about 9000 years ago, in the Tigris
and Euphrates valley in what is now Iraq/Iran. About 6000 years ago, 
these people started using a form of writing called cuneiform. This 
writing was made by pressing a stylus into wet clay tablets to form
patterns shaped like groups of triangles. These people were very similar
to the people who still live in that region. They WERE NOT BLACK.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec  5 19:16:21 PST 1995
Article: 17344 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.oj-simpson,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Black Family Values
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 21:34:37 +0000
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> In article , eha@itn.is (Elias
> Halldor Agustsson) wrote:
> 
> > In article , gary@iquest.net (gary) wrote:
> >
> > > everything but the individual you become the "cause". This idea that
> > > blacks have babys out of wedlock or don't finish school or won't get a job
> > > because of the "system" is pure ignorance. They live that kind of life
> because
> > > they can...they know they can get benefits from the government and live
> > > well enough. If they were held accountable for those babys...and made to
> >
> > Yes, I think it is the same with all white populations.  In almost
> > completely white Iceland around half of all children under 5 were born out
> > of wedlock.  Probably for the same reasons.
> > This is not a "white trash" thing.  It is very common among professionals.
> >
> > Elias
> > (father of at least 2 children out of wedlock)
> 
> Filthy nigger. I wouldn't brag. You are bringing down your race. Kids need
> fathers, you geek.
> 
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Couch Potato          Creature of Wonderful Ideals
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>                                  )|(
>                                 (o o)
>      *=======================ooO-(_)-Ooo==========================*
> 
>             Helping us all to find a kindler, gentler, view.

Well, when one lives in a country the size of a postage stamp, where
it is cold as hell in winter and not much warmer in summer, (except
when the place is threatening to blow up due to all the volcanic activity),
there is probably little to do other than procreate. In the case of 
American inner-city blacks, because of their economic situation, there
is little to do except procreate. I see a nexus here. Do you?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec  5 19:40:44 PST 1995
Article: 15163 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.oj-simpson,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Black Family Values
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 21:34:37 +0000
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> In article , eha@itn.is (Elias
> Halldor Agustsson) wrote:
> 
> > In article , gary@iquest.net (gary) wrote:
> >
> > > everything but the individual you become the "cause". This idea that
> > > blacks have babys out of wedlock or don't finish school or won't get a job
> > > because of the "system" is pure ignorance. They live that kind of life
> because
> > > they can...they know they can get benefits from the government and live
> > > well enough. If they were held accountable for those babys...and made to
> >
> > Yes, I think it is the same with all white populations.  In almost
> > completely white Iceland around half of all children under 5 were born out
> > of wedlock.  Probably for the same reasons.
> > This is not a "white trash" thing.  It is very common among professionals.
> >
> > Elias
> > (father of at least 2 children out of wedlock)
> 
> Filthy nigger. I wouldn't brag. You are bringing down your race. Kids need
> fathers, you geek.
> 
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Couch Potato          Creature of Wonderful Ideals
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>                                  )|(
>                                 (o o)
>      *=======================ooO-(_)-Ooo==========================*
> 
>             Helping us all to find a kindler, gentler, view.

Well, when one lives in a country the size of a postage stamp, where
it is cold as hell in winter and not much warmer in summer, (except
when the place is threatening to blow up due to all the volcanic activity),
there is probably little to do other than procreate. In the case of 
American inner-city blacks, because of their economic situation, there
is little to do except procreate. I see a nexus here. Do you?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec  5 19:42:01 PST 1995
Article: 7266 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.oj-simpson,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Black Family Values
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 21:34:37 +0000
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> In article , eha@itn.is (Elias
> Halldor Agustsson) wrote:
> 
> > In article , gary@iquest.net (gary) wrote:
> >
> > > everything but the individual you become the "cause". This idea that
> > > blacks have babys out of wedlock or don't finish school or won't get a job
> > > because of the "system" is pure ignorance. They live that kind of life
> because
> > > they can...they know they can get benefits from the government and live
> > > well enough. If they were held accountable for those babys...and made to
> >
> > Yes, I think it is the same with all white populations.  In almost
> > completely white Iceland around half of all children under 5 were born out
> > of wedlock.  Probably for the same reasons.
> > This is not a "white trash" thing.  It is very common among professionals.
> >
> > Elias
> > (father of at least 2 children out of wedlock)
> 
> Filthy nigger. I wouldn't brag. You are bringing down your race. Kids need
> fathers, you geek.
> 
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Couch Potato          Creature of Wonderful Ideals
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>                                  )|(
>                                 (o o)
>      *=======================ooO-(_)-Ooo==========================*
> 
>             Helping us all to find a kindler, gentler, view.

Well, when one lives in a country the size of a postage stamp, where
it is cold as hell in winter and not much warmer in summer, (except
when the place is threatening to blow up due to all the volcanic activity),
there is probably little to do other than procreate. In the case of 
American inner-city blacks, because of their economic situation, there
is little to do except procreate. I see a nexus here. Do you?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec  6 08:17:56 PST 1995
Article: 15205 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gay Nazis? (was: Pedophiles!)
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Roman 11 wrote:
> 
> I won't.

You won't what?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec  6 11:56:28 PST 1995
Article: 7309 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: WHITE POWER FOLLOWERS PLEASE READ THIS
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 23:01:11 +0000
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> : Richard Marquez wrote:
> : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> : > : lzaird wrote:
> : > : > You've never seen a non-white with Blue or Green eyes?
> : >
> : > : Of course. They show up as abberations in many races. Like I have
> : > : said before, there are exceptions to every rule. Grasping at the
> : > : exception however is like grasping at straws, i.e. the last
> : > : extremety of a drowning man (or philosophy)..
> : >
> : > Nope, George, they show up because of us "Race Mixers".  Those so-called
> : > recessive traits pop up in the darndest places...
> : >
> : > (Remember, those traits don't vanish into thin air...they pop out
> : > generations later...I've got the cousins to prove it)
> : >
> : >         - Grego (a product of "race mixing", and proud of it!)
> 
> : So, Grego, you're saying that race mixing is NOT an abberation. To make
> : that allegation is to infer that it happens on a wide scale. Much less than
> : 1 percent of the world's population marries cross-race. I'd say that that
> : was an abberation.
> 
> Race mixing is an aberration in the same way that sensible people are
> aberrations.

That statement is an unsupportable non sequitar. It simply makes no sense, 
and you make no points.

George Graves
> 
> - .


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec  9 09:47:48 PST 1995
Article: 15535 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A Few More Facts (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 19:48:00 +0000
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Paul Whitehouse wrote:
> 
> In article <30BF76E0.17E3@aimnet.com>, gmgraves@aimnet.com says...
> >
> >K
> >> >: These are not the oldest cultures.
> >> >
> >> >Spare me.  Who is then?  Tell tell.
> >>
> >> The Atlantean is alot older.
> >>
> 
>    The Atlantean? You've been reading way too many issues of the National
> Enquirer for any of your neurons to be functioning properly.
> 
> 
> >> The Egyptians never ever ruled the world, Stooey. They hadn't invented
> much.
> >> And basically NO ONE copied their culture.
> >>
> >>
> Noone copied their culture? Better go back to the books on that one, sparky!
> The Rome that existed prior to Julius Ceasar was a far cry from the large
> grand-scale marble temples, colliseums and great public monuments that we
> think of today. Indeed, Rome prior to that time was quite bland, more
> concerned with kicking ass than with taking names later. Then Ol' Jules got
> a peek at how the Egyptians venerated their rulers and their dead. He saw
> the pyramids of Giza, and the great temples and said, "Hey, I want some of
> that shit!" And he promptly went home and spent loads of dough on
> Egyptian-style grandeur. Sure, he nearly bankrupted the roman treasury and
> embarassed the hell out of the senate with his antics with Cleo so they
> killed him, but his vision of a Rome resplendant in the grand style of Egypt
> went on until well after the fall of Rome.
> 
> >The Sumerian culture is the oldest "civilisation" on earth. They were
> >building cities and cultivating crops in the Tigris and Euphrates valley
> >9000 years ago. 6000 years ago, they developed writing (cuneaiform).
> >The Egyptian civilisation did not evolve to the point of crop cultivation
> >and city building until about 3000 BCE (i.e. a thousand tears later). The
> >Mesopotamian culture came later, around the time of the Mycenea Greeks.
> >
> >George Graves
> 
>   Very true. The oldest known settlements were in what is now modern day
> Iraq.
>                                                       Byte me.

Your  popular culture verrsion of Roman history is very entertaining, and I 
suppose the facts could bear that interpretation.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec  9 09:51:48 PST 1995
Article: 10155 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.south-african,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Why everyone loves Nelson Mendela
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 19:44:26 +0000
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Nhlanhla.Mndaweni wrote:
> 
> George Graves  writes:
> 
> >I have friends in S.A. Have been there several times. I also know a guy
> >who has gone there at least twice a year for over twenty years. He has
> >watched this S.A "NOW working better" as you put it, and he says that
> >the place is falling fucking apart! My friends who live there are trying
> >desperately to get out. One is moving to Holland (He's Afrikaaner), and
> >another is trying to get a job in the 'States so that he can move here.
> >So much for your "NOW working better".
> 
> I'm not suprised, they are no longer the protected master race as in the
> past.  They feel very threatened now that blacks including indians and
> coloureds are seen as equal to them. The mess they created through apartheid
> is now haunting them and they are running away.  Damn cowards.  Black people
> didn't run away they fought the system to the bitter end.   If your friends
> the instant govt is bad then they must challenge it and put it right and not
> return to their native Holland if they feel so strong about SA.

Sometimes it's better to cut one's losses. S.A. is lost. The blacks have it 
now, and in just a few years, it will be just like the rest of the non-
functioning black nations in Africa which have fallen apart since the
Europeans left. Of course, African blacks might not really want a 
European-type technological society, and the collapse of the infrastructure
might be either deliberate, or a result of apathy. Fine. Its just that the
Europeans who were born in these countries do want a technological
society with all of the ammenities thereof. So, if they leave, they leave
for that reason. Calling these people "cowards" because they do not want
to be killed in their own country by marauding blacks, shows that you 
have no idea of what you are talking about. 
No, the blacks didn't run away. They had no place to go. Saying that they are
brave because they were cornered and that the whites are cowards because
they are not cornered is idiotic. 

> >In the future, find out who you are fucking with before you try to flame>'
> em! Just a friendly word of advice. ;)
> 
> Who cares who you are ?  As far as I'm concerned you're are just a pathetic
> ill-informed citizen of your country.

You are obviously dumber than I thought you were . Of course 
you don't know or care who I am. What I mean is that perhaps you 
should lurk a bit and find out who is vulnerable to your bullying 
before you try it out them. As many who have tried can tell you,
I am not bully-able. You mess with me, and YOU get flamed.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec  9 20:59:30 PST 1995
Article: 15592 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Facts about Aryan Atlantis
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 15:26:34 +0000
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KT wrote:
> 
> rkadel@course2.harvard.edu (Rachel Meredith Kadel) says:
> 
> >KT  wrote:
> >>rkadel@course2.harvard.edu (Rachel Meredith Kadel) says:
> 
> 
> 
> >>Most - if not all - Aryan Whites come from Atlantis. There's a fair amount
> >>of evidence to support that.
> >>
> >Where?  (Oh, yeah.  The bottom of the ocean.)
> 
> Psychical evidence is on the bottom of the ocean and other places such as
> (possibly) under the ice in Antarctica. The Ice should have preserved it
> nicely. But until they find anything, there's loadsa facts pointing towards
> the existence of an Atlantis ruled by Whites.
> 
> The old Welsh, British and Irish Celts all had stories mixed with legends
> about a big land situated to the west in the Atlantic ocean. It was said to
> have been a paradise were everyone was happy, before it sunk into the ocean,
> only leaving a handful of survivors. These survivors then became the
> ancestors of today's Europeans. That's basically how most of the Celtic
> legends go.
> 
> For the Vikings, Atlantis had transformed into Valhalla. Which was the home
> of the Vikings' gods who they believed to have descended from and would
> meet when they died.
> 
> The Mayas, Toltecs, Aztecs in Mexico and South America - and some North
> American indian groups - believed white gods from a distant land in the east
> had come across the sea and given their ancestors the gift of civilization,
> thousands of years ago. There's one particular white *god* who stands out in
> these indian's religion. He was called Quetzalcoatl and he is one of the gods,
> they claim had predicted the return of the white *gods*. Aka the Spaniards.
> 
> Ancient Arabs believed Atlantis had been a glorious island kingdom - in the
> western ocean - inhabited by a warloving people who had been colonizing parts
> of Europe, North Africa and other places. They also believed it to be the
> cradle of civilization.
> 
> In the old Indian scriptures, Mahabharata and Purana, there are verses about
> a White continent a half world away from India which had been destroyed in a
> massive war between the powers of good and bad.
> 
> The Spanish Conquistadors were astounded that the Indians used many words
> that seemed remarkably similar to their own. For example the name of the land
> the indians thought the Spaniards had come from, sound like the name of the
> place the Spaniards were hoping to find (Atlantis).
> 
> I've made a little list of the various names for Atlantis.
> 
> Nationalities/Races                     Local name for Atlantis
> 
> Old Celts                       -       Avalon
> Vikings                         -       Valhalla and Atsgaard
> Old Spaniards                   -       Antilla and Atlantida
> Romans                          -       Atlantis
> Guanchees                       -       Atalaya
> Aztecs (pre-Mexico)             -       Aztlan
> Mayas (South America)           -       Aztlan and Atlan
> Hindus                          -       Attala
> Arabs                           -       Ad
> Egyptians                       -       Amenti.
> Sumerians                       -       Arallu
> North African arabs, etc.       -       Atlantoi and Attala
> 
> The names are so similar, that all these races must have been in contact with
> each other. And it hasn't been ancient explorers such as the Phoenicians, who
> sailed to America to take a small peep at things. It would have to have been
> something much larger than that and further back.
> 
> The geographic placement of Atlantis is said to be impossible due to the
> tectonic plate theory of continental drift and stuff. All continents were once
> joined together in one big super-continent in which America and Europe fit
> nicely together. This is supposed to prove Atlantis couldn't have existed. Yet
> Platon's description of the mountains and valleys - in the level country of
> Atlantis - almost draw the same picture of the Atlantic sea floor, as today's
> Sonar measurements/readings show.
> 
> If the Atlantic sea level was lowered 2 - 3 kilometers, all the little islands
> near Europe, North Africa and in the Caribbean (Bermuda, Azores,
> Grand Canaries etc.) would become peaks of the highest mountains on the
> Atlantean Islands. The Atlanteans who lived on the these mountains were among
> the ones who escaped the floods of water. Like the Grand Canaries.
> 
> When the first European explorers re-discovered these Islands, they met tall
> white people who were living in old stone houses they no longer bothered
> repairing. They owned old stone tablets with writing from a language they no
> longer possessed. They feared the sea and didn't own any boats whatsoever.
> These people were gobsmacked when they saw the Spaniards arrive to their
> island. They were sure that no-one else had survived the destruction of
> Atalaya, as they called Atlantis. Unfortunately they were all killed in the
> fight against the Spaniards, later on.
> 
> In South Africa, deep inside some caves (forgot the name) people have
> discovered sophisticated cave wall paintings that show White with short hair
> and dressed in modern day clothing. There's also ones with people holding
> long unindentified objects that seem to resemble rifles. Perhaps something
> from a age-old safari. Similar paintings have been found in caves near
> Lussac-les-Chateaux in France and several other places. These paintings
> date thousands of years back.
> 
> Whites *did* create some kind of advanced civilization somewhere in the past.
> ---
> Kenny

An interesting mix of Erich Von Daanekin and Charles Berlitz, both pop
culture "authors" responsible for such weighty scientific tomes as
"Chariots of the Gods", and "Mysteries of the Bermuda Triangle". Neither
of which has any credibility whatsoever. They both use a type of writing
known as "harness journalism". This is where the writer states a group
of supposedly related "facts", and then drags the reader to HIS conclusion
by statements such as: "these facts show that only space aliens (or 
Atlanteans) could have built this, and is therefore irrefutable proof of
my contentions." These authors never explore alternative theories to 
explain their "phenomemon". A case in point is Von Daanekin. He wrote
that the large drawings on the Cuzco plain in Peru could only be seen
as the figures that they represent from the air, ergo, the plain was a
spaceport for ancient astronauts. He never once postulates that it could be
that the natives who drew these figures might have worshiped the sun,
and drew the figures (using a grid system to transfer the scaled-up 
figures from a set of hand-held plans) so their "god" could see them. 
Berlitz is worse. His book on Atlantis is filled with the usual quotes 
>from  Plato's two dialogs as well as the standard stuff about Egyptian
and Mayan pyramids, the fact that the Aztecs had the same Zodiac 
signs as did the Euro-Asians, etc. etc. Add to that the fanciful account
of Atlantis in Donnely's novel, and you have a mish-mosh of "proof"
which would convince no one who was not either already convinced or 
extremely gullable.
Using Kenny's type of argument, one could say that there was absolute
proof of the Biblical flood, as well. Many cultures (including a number
of Amerind tribes) have similar stories of a world-wide innundation 
caused by the wrath of some diety or another. Yet we know for a fact
that such a deluge did not happen. We can confirm this from several
different scientific approaches. First of all, a flood would have left a
geological record at the same layer of sediment all over the earth. Such
a silt deposit does not exist. Of course, almost any spot on earth that
one can name was under water at some point in this planet's history, 
but never at the same time. If the geological record isn't enough, we 
can use hydraulics. The earth is a closed hydraulic system with a 
finite amount of water in it. Almost all of the water that was ever
here is here today (a miniscule amount is lost in the upper atmosphere
by sublimation into outer space, but it isn't significant). That means,
simply, that there is not enough water on earth to cover all of the 
continents (even if you completely melted both polar ice caps). 
No Kenny, your arguments do not hold water (pun intended). Each instance
you state has other, more rational explanations. It does not require a
great continent in the middle of the Atlantic ocean to explain them.
Nice try though. No cigar.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec  9 20:59:31 PST 1995
Article: 15593 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 15:34:19 +0000
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> > > >>Read your bible.  The bible says that he was born in Bethlehem in Judea.
> > > >>It also says that he had a bris.  And that he spent bunches and bunches
> > > >>of time in the temple.  His coming, again according to the gospels,
> > > >>fulfilled all sorts of Jewish prophesies.  Pilate clearly thought he was
> > > >>a Jew -- he was crucified under an inscription reading "King of the
> > > >>Jews", again according to the gospels.
> 
> The thing that has alway bothered me about Pontius Pilate (Pontius
> Pilatus) is that it is a made up name. It means "pilot of the sea." Also,
> the word  "pontius" is very close to the latinate for "pope" or "father",
> pontif comes from it, a reference to paternis, vater, etc. Was this a real
> person, or a religious allegorical metaphor? If we see the pontius or
> ocean as that upon which Christ walks when on the Sea of Gallilee, a
> miracle in which he overcomes death, mimicks the crossing of the Red Sea
> by walking on the top of the sea rather than "within" it as did the
> Israelites crossing the Rea Sea and the Jordan River. Jesus was baptised
> (full immersion) and, as a result is seen skimming the surface, miraculous
> never going under. Going under the water is a sign of dying. By staying on
> top, he has overcome death symbolically. Again, the  Pontius Pilate
> allegory, the pilot of seas condemning Christ who then skims off the
> crucifixion and arises from the dead.
> 
>
A pedistal to a statue with the name "Pontius Pilate Governor General
of Judea" and a Roman date corresponding to 04 BCE through 06 AD has 
been found at a dig at the Roman seaport of Ceasarium on the Isreali
coast. This is the only record ever found to substantiate that Pilate 
was a real person.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 10 05:02:22 PST 1995
Article: 15595 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 17:10:06 +0000
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> In article <4a5o8q$2u4@klein.delphi.com>, STEPH SCHMITZ
>  wrote:
> 
> > forman@netcom.com (frank forman) wrote:
> > >No attacks on racists, please. If you have positive evidence *FOR*
> >racial equality, please share it with us.
> > >
> > >Frank
> >
> > Positive evidence for racial equality?  Is it not a basic human right to
> > be treated as another's equal?
> 
> Yes. I agree. It is a basic human right to be "treated" as another's equal
> under the laws of the land.
> 
> However, it is not a basic human right to be promoted to a top position
> when he is stupid or unqualified just because of his skin color.
> 
> It is a right only to be treated as another's equal in the eyes of the
> law. No one should be unfairly villified on account of his skin color or
> religion. Nor should he be unfairly uplifted because of it. Although it
> seems that whites are unfairly uplifted in the eyes of black people, it is
> really only "appearance" and not what it is. Whites are more intelligent
> and more talented on average, so they succeed in larger numbers per capita
> and per groupita.
> 
> However, those blacks who are intelligent, hard working, energetic, and
> committed to success, who are just as smart and educated as whites based
> on true talents, are as welcome as whites anywhere. They are respected by
> whites, too. What whites and blacks who are middle class can't stand are
> low class blacks and whites who are part of a criminal, drug pushing
> sub-culture who value ignorance, street talk, and incivility as proofs of
> "belonging to the hoods."
> 
> What I can't understand is why street blacks consider blacks who are
> successful in white institutions such as corporations as black Oreos, sell
> outs, white niggers, and boot lickers. This is offensive to successful
> blacks, unwarranted, and makes the "nigger element" look very, very
> niggery.
> 
>

Frank, I agree with you one-hundred percent. Liberals feed the low class
blacks (other colors too) on this idea that they are oppressed. These use
this "oppressed" status to suck on the government tit, and they think that
any black who doesn't do that is endangering their lively-hood. Those who
have bought the liberal agenda that they cannot survive without govenment
assistance, fear that successful blacks will cause governments to 
re-evaluate the assumption that blacks must be subsidized to survive. If
this occurs, they believe, government might just come to the conclusion
that blacks can and should stand on their own two feet, and therefore
no longer require government assistance, and eventually, stop such 
assitance. Therefore they view any successful balck as a race traitor.
	When the U.S. Declaration of Independence was written, the part that
goes "....all men are created equal..." meant under the law. When it said
MEN it meant men; by which an 18th century aristocrat like Thomas 
Jefferson meant land owning white males. It said nothing of women, 
it said nothing of blacks (who were not considered men) or even whites
who did not own land (renters, tennent farmers, indentured servants, etc.).

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 11:32:58 PST 1995
Article: 15609 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:30:07 +0000
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> KT (speedy5@ibm.net) wrote:
> 
> : At the moment I can't provide any evidence that Jesus wasn't a jew. But I
> : swear I read something interesting somewhere. I just can't recall where.
> 
> The Bible, maybe?  No, wait.  That's the book that proves you WRONG.
> 
> Mark

Jesus (Yassou Bar Yousseff) was an Aremaic from the Galilee. His racial
background is Caananite, but he and his people followed the Hebraic faith.
Even the Bible says that he was circumcised and had a bar mitzvah. it is 
believed that his primary language was not Hebrew but a Caananite
language similar to Arabic.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 11:32:59 PST 1995
Article: 15612 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Europeans Defeat Enemies. Invaded by Aliens More than Africans Were.
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:52:07 +0000
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> KT (speedy5@ibm.net) wrote:
> : staloff@scws31.harvard.edu (Mark Staloff) says:
> : >
> : >The slaves had no choice to be on that ship.  The crew members did.  If
> : >you knew that you had at least a 25% chance of dying on any given voyage,
> : >would *you* sign up for that kind of job?
> 
> : No that's wrong. Back then, many sailors were often recruited against their
> : own will. The captain of a ship could send out crew-members to kidnap
> : drunk people in the streets at night, bring them back to the ship and make
> : them sign *enrollment papers*. When they woke up next day - nice and
> : sober - the Captain of the ship was their Boss and they couldn't leave
> : the ship.
> 
> That was for the Royal Navy, you twit.  The merchant marine never relied
> on press gangs.
> 
> : (Lots deleted)
> Mark

This is wrong for a start Mark. The British Merchant Marine during the 
18th and part of the 9th century sailed under the Admiralty Articles
of War. They could and did use impressed sailors. Later, when merchant
men became privately owned ships with civilian officers, captains still
sent press gangs ashore to fill empty berths when sailing time came 
neigh. It wasn't actually legal, but who could prove otherwise?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 11:33:00 PST 1995
Article: 15613 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
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Steffanie wrote:
> 
> In <4a75vn$iif@curly.cc.emory.edu> libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c
> anderson) writes:
> 
> >
> >Steffanie (Yeti@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> >: In  lsinger@netcom.com (Lane Singer)
> >: writes:
> >: > race has no biological definition.
> >
> >: According to my sociology textbook,  this is not true.  The TERM race
> is
> >: meaningless in a biological sense because there is no such thing as a
> >: pure race.
> >: Race is a social classification system based on distinguishing
> >: characteristics.  How these characteristics came to be is biology, ie.
> >: genetic material,adaptation, etc.
> >
> >In other words, "race has no biological definition."  Thanks.
> >
> >Bill
> >
> >
> No.  I said the TERM race has no place in biology.
> Because there is no pure race,  biologically.  A typical white American
> is made up of many different ethnicities,  so the white race is not pure.
> That is why they do not like to use the word race in biology.  Race
> denotes that there are a group of people with exactly similar genetic
> material.
> BUT..the color of skin is biological.  Therefore,  biology does enter
> into race.
> 
> This is another example of social science and natural science sharing a
> fine line.
> 
> steffanie carlosa

Steffanie,

Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic animals.
The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
of gorillas. Their different enviornments and separation have caused them 
to evolve slightly different evolutionary adaptations to enable them to 
survive. They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they 
are definitly the same species. They look different, have different diets, 
different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they would be 
said to be of different races. So you see, race is a human social convention 
used to describe what are, in actuality, different human sub-species. Most
of these conventions stem from a time when humans thought themselves
devine and separate from the animal kingdom. 'race' sounds better than
'sub-species' in the same way that 'being in love' sounds better than 'mating
behavior'.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 11:33:01 PST 1995
Article: 15614 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limba
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:35:01 +0000
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Mark C. Chu-Carroll wrote:
> 
> In article <4a6sl4$u0n@newsource.ihug.co.nz>,
> Ourobouros  wrote:
> >In article , lsinger@netcom.com (Lane Singer) says:
> >>
> >>frank forman (forman@netcom.com) wrote:
> >>: Just thought I'd ask again, what *positive* evidence is there FOR the
> >>: belief that environmental differences are wholly responsible for the
> >>: differences in academic and economic achievement of what are generally
> >>: called whites and black in America?
> >>
> >>: No attacks on racists, please. If you have positive evidence *FOR* racial
> >>: equality, please share it with us.
> >>
> >>how can there be either equality or inequality for something that
> >>doesn't exist? there's no such thing as race, biologically, so
> >>any behavioral differentials are going to be randomly distributed
> >>without reference to race.
> >>
> >Proof please or is genetics apart from biology (you know DNA strands
> >for a start)?
> 
> Take a look at any recent book on biology, or at the various
> publications of the human genome project. It's been shown that the
> genetic variation within a racial group is far larger than the genetic
> variation that distinguishes different racial groups. (In other words,
> if you take a white person, and a black person, and examine the
> differences between their genes, what you'll find is this: the genetic
> difference associated with racially tied characterstics, that is the
> characteristics that are determined by race, it will be dwarfed by the
> genetic difference associated with non-racially tied
> characteristics. And when I say racially tied characteristics here,
> I'm not just talking about the visible ones, but *all* genetic traits
> that are characteristic of "race". (So, for example, if the black
> person were a carrier of a gene for sickle cell anemia, that would be
> considered a racial characteristic, despite the fact that it doesn't
> make the person black.)
> 
> Further: when studying human genes, you'll find that the genetic
> structures that have been tied to development of the brain and nervous
> system show no racially tied characteristics. (Again, see the
> publications of the human genome project.)
> 
> >>if differences arise in a nation that has a color-coded caste
> >>system, what would you attribute those differences to? only
> >>the most unscientific person would assume that color, which
> >>is regulated by something like four genes, has anything at all
> >>to do with it.
> >>
> >Unfortunately there are more than four genes that distinguish a
> >race.  If you care to examine Asian, Pacific Islands, and Indian
> >(as in the country India) at how they keep pecking order, it is
> >primarily done on skin colour, and more specifically
> >*whiteness*.  For example, the Japanese rank number one amongst
> >the Asian community.
> 
> Pure, utter, unabashed nonsense.
> 
> Asia and the Pacific islands are *not* a single culture, not do they
> have *anything* that could be described as a single "pecking order".
> 
> Within China, the ruling class is a group that calls themselves the
> "Han" people.  Their skin is no lighter than the other people of the
> region. The only preference towards light skin is a simple social one:
> dark tanned skin is a sign of being a farmer, which means that you are
> a peasant. Nothing racial about it. For proof, talk to any Chinese
> person, or read a book on Chinese history.
> 
> In Japan, there is actually a group of people in one of the northern
> islands that are *very* pale skinned, and do not have the epicanthic
> fold on their eyes. (Can't think of their name... Starts with an "A",
> I think.) In fact, they look Caucasian. They have traditionally been
> treated as the *lowest* racial class within Japanese society.
> 
> In India, classes are based on the caste system. The uppermost caste
> includes both very light skinned and very dark skinned people, and the
> lower castes (including the very lowest) also include extremely light
> skinned people. Again, proof can be gained simply by either talking to
> someone from India, or reading any book about the Indian caste system.
> 
> Finally, while the racially tied genetic characteristics do involve
> *far* more than four genes, taken as a portion of the full genetic
> structure of a human being, they are a miniscule, insignificant
> portion.
> 
>         


Yes, but if race is as much (or more of) a product of cultural differences
as it is of racially-tied genetic differences, then the concept of race 
still exists as much as ever. The genome project is only about a third
finished. Who knows what revalations the un-decoded two-thirds of the
human genome will uncover.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 12:24:12 PST 1995
Article: 7602 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: My prejudice explained...
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 23:43:58 +0000
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Racial Theorist wrote:
> 
> staloff@scws31.harvard.edu (Mark Staloff) wrote:
> 
> >Daren Brittell (brittell@cts.com) wrote:
> 
> >: Embrace separation!
> 
> >That's an oxymoron, you schmuck.
> 
> >Mark
> 
> and what's wrong with an oxymoron, DIPSHIT?  after all shakespheare
> and milton wrote them on purpose.
> 
> and you expect us to believe somebody as STUPID as you goes to
> harvard?  if you really are at harvard, JACKASS, go ask your english
> professor what's wrong with an oxymoron.
> 
> R.C. Richards, Racial Theorist
> 
> visit the new, kinder, gentler CLOC homepage:
> 
> http://www.io.com/~rlogsdon/aryan-page/cloc

Ah, what the uneducated will try! Daren Brittell was using the word
separation as a concept. The understood part of the sentence is: Embrace
(the concept of) separation! Certainly NOT an oxymoron. However, Mr.
Staloff might qualify as an oxymoron if one were to drop the 'oxy' part!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 13:58:53 PST 1995
Article: 10246 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african,nz.general
Subject: Re: Why everyone loves Nelson Mendela
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 15:55:10 +0000
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Les Griswold wrote:
> 
> KT (speedy5@ibm.net) writes:
> > scallon@kiwi.pyrotechnics.com (Brendan J. F. Scallon) says:
> >
> >>: Clearly all the Muslims, niggers, chinks etc. who ain't satisfied with
> >>: the hospitality of the civilized Western World, could move back to THEIR
> >>: homelands.
> >>
> >>Then shouldn't whites go back to Europe?  Are you by chance American Indian?
> >>
> >
> > North Am. belongs to the White race, simply because Whites founded and built
> > the civilization we have today. Whereas all blacks have contributed zero-zilch.
> > Someone's probably going to try *refute* me on that one, so here's a small
> > reminder...
> >
> > Blacks: peanut butter and cotton gin.
> >
> > Whites: [looooooong list]
> 
> Something that people who brute around negro inventiveness never like to
> talk about is:  how many of their inventions (real or made-up) would they
> have invented in Africa, that is how many were invented in a WHITE society?
> 
> Les

Sorry Les, the cotton gin was invented by a white guy named Eli Whitney. 
Now we're down to just peanut butter. (to be fair, G.W. Carver discovered
lots of things that could be done with peanuts, including how to extract
its oil for cooking.)

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 13:58:55 PST 1995
Article: 10252 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: WHITE POWER FOLLOWERS PLEASE READ THIS
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 16:02:24 +0000
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a.air-student-com-ghostgum-93090658 wrote:
> 
> KT (speedy5@ibm.net) wrote:
> 
> : Jews, niggers and Muslims ain't White. Whereas George is. Why shouldn't
> : White persons want to run the WHITE community according to THEIR agenda?
> 
> Here's a thought, stupid (yeah, I know thinking must hurt for you...)
> 
> Maybe... just maybe... there are shit-loads of "white" people who do NOT
> want to be in Graves' community?
> 
> Think real hard about it, then get back to me...
> 
> : The problem that persists is that they're trying to do the same thing with
> : OUR community (Western world) which - as all normal people know - doesn't
> : belong to them.
> 
> Define "normal"... if you think you're it then you have a very strange
> view of society... or are we talking normal Atlanteans?
> 
> --
Well, just maybe there are tons of white people who WOULD love to
live in a white-only society. If anyone bothered to take a real poll
(the media won't because they, like most liberals, don't really want
their little bubble burst), I think you multiculturalists would be 
stunned to find what a minority you really are.
And BTW, leave me out of that "Atlantis, home of the white race" camp.
I'm not a believer.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 11 23:06:42 PST 1995
Article: 10311 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: WHITE POWER FOLLOWERS PLEASE READ THIS
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 23:20:45 +0000
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Andy Walton wrote:
> 
> In article <30BF77C5.52EF@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
>   :I think that you would find the figures fairly small. Certainly not 1%
>   :Remember, One person in three on this planet is Chinese - living in
>   :China. Most of them have never even seen someone not of their race,
>   :much less had children by them.
> 
> (1) If interracial mating is so rare, how is it leading to the Imminent
> Death of the White Race (film at 11)?
> 
> Y'all try to have it both ways--interracial mating is rare enough to be
> "weird," but common enough to be a dire threat. That dog don't hunt.
> 
> (2) By what leap of logic does it follow that anomalous behavior is
> inherently morally wrong?
> 
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>               "You come to see what you want to see
>            You come to see, but you never come to know."
>                         --Kinky Friedman
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>  Andy Walton  *  atticus@mindspring.com  *  finger for e.e. cummings
>               http://www.mindspring.com/~atticus/

Aw, your questions are too easy! Ask some difficult ones!

1) Liberals encourage it. That makes it a threat.
2) By what leap of logic do you assume that morality and anomalous behavior
have any nexus whatsoever?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 12 14:09:14 PST 1995
Article: 10363 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 00:13:32 +0000
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Rick, Jones wrote:
> 
> >   whistler@netcom.com (Billy Whistler) writes:
> 
> >  Lane has already failed in his/her argument.  Biologically, races do
> >  exist.  There is no other explanation for the different GENETIC
> >  characteristics and physical traits of whites, negroes, and Asian
> >  Orientals.
> 
> Biologically, what constitutes"race" is open to considerable debate, Billy.
> It's obvious that genetic differences between human beings exist, and are
> passed along to offspring, but what constitutes distinct, separate races
> has far more to do with the opinions of the observer than genetics.  There
> is substantially more genetic difference between two white people with
> different types of fingerprints (e.g. whorled fingerprints, as opposed to
> loops) than there is between a black and a white with the same type
> of fingerprints.  Nobody would think of dividing the world into fingerprint
> types, yet genetically it's a more significant division.  Skin colour and facial
> structure are used as racial dividers because they're simply easier to see
> than anything else; beyond that, it's essentially a superficial distinction.

You know it is impossible to separate what genetically constitutes a 
race from what CULTURALLY constitutes a race. Genetically, races may
be more similar than many would like to believe, but culturally they are
MILES apart. There is also some evidence that humans have a cultural
memory and that many people take their cultural biases with them when
they move to different parts of the world. It also seems that they pass 
those cutural traits along to generation after generation. This is why
after living among the white man for almost 400 years, the black 
culture is still so different from the white culture that it causes whites
to look upon blacks as an inferior race 130 years after the death
of slavery. The Irish were universally dispised in the U.S.A. when they
first immigrated here in the 1830's through the 1850's. By the 1870's
most of that predjudice was gone; why? Because the Irish were 
culturally close to other European immigrant groups, and assimilation
was fairly easy. After the native born Americans became used to the 
Irish presence, the overt predjudice fell away. The Irish proved themselves
to be hardworking, God-fearing people with a passion for their new land, and
they were ultimately accepted. The Chinese, on the other hand, worked
just as hard (and often alongside the Irishman on the railroad) but because
of their obvious racial characteristics both physical and cultural, they
have never been fully accepted. You cannot divorce genetic racial 
characteristics from cultural racial characteristics. It may just be that
the cultural differences are really the defining differences in racial
relations, not the genetic ones.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 12 20:43:22 PST 1995
Article: 7711 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Can eugenics save the races?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:50:42 +0000
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David Whitt wrote:
> 
> This whole debate it going nowhere so this will be my last post regarding
> it.  Your theories are dangerous and unproven.  You degrade the entire
> human race by basing its value on its intelligence and productivity.
> Those are important but not all-important.  I do believe in population
> control but through education and provision of contraceptives.  As for
> religion, how can you discount the idea of a god or afterlife?  There is
> no proove that it does not exist?  Our science is still in the early
> stages of development.  It has its limits.
> 
> -DW

Productivity is THE single most important measure of any human living
in an industrialized, technological society. There is simply no place for
those who do not produce. In a properly run society, such non-productive
people would not survive. We artificially support the non-productive
via government administered welfare. Take it away, and these people 
would have to sink or swim. My guess is that most of them would try
to swim. 

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 12 20:49:47 PST 1995
Article: 10404 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Can eugenics save the races?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:50:42 +0000
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David Whitt wrote:
> 
> This whole debate it going nowhere so this will be my last post regarding
> it.  Your theories are dangerous and unproven.  You degrade the entire
> human race by basing its value on its intelligence and productivity.
> Those are important but not all-important.  I do believe in population
> control but through education and provision of contraceptives.  As for
> religion, how can you discount the idea of a god or afterlife?  There is
> no proove that it does not exist?  Our science is still in the early
> stages of development.  It has its limits.
> 
> -DW

Productivity is THE single most important measure of any human living
in an industrialized, technological society. There is simply no place for
those who do not produce. In a properly run society, such non-productive
people would not survive. We artificially support the non-productive
via government administered welfare. Take it away, and these people 
would have to sink or swim. My guess is that most of them would try
to swim. 

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 12 23:04:10 PST 1995
Article: 7729 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: My prejudice explained...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:06:10 +0000
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : Ah, what the uneducated will try!
> 
> Yale?
> 
> : Daren Brittell was using the word separation as a concept.
> 
> A wha?  One siwwable words, pwease.
> 
> : The understood part of the sentence is: Embrace (the concept of) separation!
> 
> Ohhhh....  Now I get it.  Gee, what a doofus I am.
> 
> : Certainly NOT an oxymoron.
> 
> Uh... yeah, like it was sarcasm, dude, since you're like, uh dense and
> shit.   Like, gag me with a spoon!
> 
> : However, Mr Staloff might qualify as an oxymoron if one were to drop the
> : 'oxy' part!
> 
> Gee.  That's only the second time ON THIS THREAD that pun has been
> dragged out.  My, what a clever man.  Stealing the libs' jokes.
> 
> : George Graves
> 
> How's Mission Impossible doing?  I miss that show.
> 
> Mark

Sarcasm only works when recognizable as such. You liberals are so stupid,
that one could be forgiven for believing the worst about you.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 12 23:31:24 PST 1995
Article: 10422 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: My prejudice explained...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:06:10 +0000
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : Ah, what the uneducated will try!
> 
> Yale?
> 
> : Daren Brittell was using the word separation as a concept.
> 
> A wha?  One siwwable words, pwease.
> 
> : The understood part of the sentence is: Embrace (the concept of) separation!
> 
> Ohhhh....  Now I get it.  Gee, what a doofus I am.
> 
> : Certainly NOT an oxymoron.
> 
> Uh... yeah, like it was sarcasm, dude, since you're like, uh dense and
> shit.   Like, gag me with a spoon!
> 
> : However, Mr Staloff might qualify as an oxymoron if one were to drop the
> : 'oxy' part!
> 
> Gee.  That's only the second time ON THIS THREAD that pun has been
> dragged out.  My, what a clever man.  Stealing the libs' jokes.
> 
> : George Graves
> 
> How's Mission Impossible doing?  I miss that show.
> 
> Mark

Sarcasm only works when recognizable as such. You liberals are so stupid,
that one could be forgiven for believing the worst about you.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 13 02:59:33 PST 1995
Article: 15827 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:52:41 +0000
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : NOBODY PRACTISES RACISM AGAINST BLACKS. That is a liberal point of view!
> 
> [snip]
> 
> : When liberals try to change it by subsidizing those groups who do not
> : posess the genetic makeup to successfully live in an increasingly
> : technological world, they make sure that those unsuccessful genes are
> : passed along to yet another generation.
> 
> So what you're saying, basically, is that no one's racist any more and
> we've got to stop subsidizing those inferior blacks.

No, what I'm saying is that society does not practise racism against
anyone. Where else can a black man drive a Ferrari and have a home
in Brentwood. If this society practised racism the way you liberals
believe that racism is practised, this would not be possible. The fact 
is that anyone in this country, regardless of race, creed, color or 
religion, can be successful if they have the right stuff.
Of corse individuals within that society are another matter. Its still a
"free" country, you know:) 
> 
> : This ultimately, hurts
> : everyone; but especially it hurts the races and groups who need the
> : genetic "culling" and aren't getting it because they are being artificially
> : supported by liberals with "brotherly love in their hearts".
> 
> Actually the technology gap is getting wider across the board.  Poor
> white people with gazonga big families are just as screwed as anybody.

With this statement, I agree.

> And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
humans (mostly liberals).

George Graves


> 
> - .


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 13 03:33:42 PST 1995
Article: 10449 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Technological inferiority = moral superiority
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:02:02 +0000
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Les Griswold wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) writes:
> > Les Griswold wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
> (they = liberals)
> >> The "why" is simple:  they're afraid of superiority (or even notions of
> >> it) because they know that THEY'RE, with few exceptions, wretched
> >> inferiors who would NEVER cut the muster in a meritocracy.
> >>
> >> > My contention is that brainwashing is at the bottom of this. Why else
> >> > would all of these people work so hard to bring about something which
> >> > is so absolutly NOT in their best interest?
> >> > The next question to ask is if, indeed, this irrational liberalism and
> >> > multiculturalism is a product of brainwashing, who would profit from
> >> > a world reduced to such a base existance? Who was it who said "better
> >> > by far to rule in hell, than to serve in heaven"?
> >>
> >> But you're granting that there is a nobility to liberalism that Milton
> >> imparted to Lucifer.  There isn't.  Most liberals are wretched little
> >> crawling creatures who whine and snivel when confronted.  I've yet to see
> >> (or even HEAR) of a liberal standing up like a man for his beliefs.
> >
> > Not exactly nobility, Les. I was refering to the Jew. HE would rather rule
> > in hell (the earth reduced to a wretched planet with everybody living in
> > poverty except him and his) than serve in heaven. The Jew is the
> > brainwasher and it is in his best interest to bring everything down. He
> > is using these poor, gullible, stupid liberals (which are his creations
> > anyway) to help spread his gospel. Monkey see on TV, Monkey do.
> > Appologies to Milton.
> 
> That's true enough.  H.L. Mencken (I think) once observed that the Semite
> simply has no conception of how to rule fairly or justly; this is
> encouraging, because it means that jews simply don't know how not to push
> their arrogance to extremes, and it's going to piss off a LOT of people
> (heck, it already has).
> 
> Les

Well, history tells us that the Eternal Jew, eventually overplays his hand.
He has been trying to rule the world for 2000 years. Every country that
he has ever infested, has gone along with him to some point, and then 
either tried to kill the entire lot, or thrown their asses out. Let's hope
the evil thing stumbles this time as well.  He is closer to winning this
time than ever before, however because he has, using his power in media,
created several generations of brainwashed minions called "liberals" who
unwittingly and unthinkingly do his bidding.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 13 03:33:43 PST 1995
Article: 10460 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 23:11:10 +0000
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> 
> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> 
> >Steffanie,
> >
> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> 
> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> race, particulary in an American context.
> 
> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >of gorillas.
> 
> [chop, chop]
> 
> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to be
> 
> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> 
> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> on your environment than anything else.
> 
> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> discussed.
> 
> Timothy

Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and 
that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese 
have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.  Also
someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
with the various races of mankind.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 13 03:50:01 PST 1995
Article: 15841 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> 
> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> 
> >Steffanie,
> >
> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> 
> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> race, particulary in an American context.
> 
> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >of gorillas.
> 
> [chop, chop]
> 
> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to be
> 
> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> 
> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> on your environment than anything else.
> 
> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> discussed.
> 
> Timothy

Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and 
that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese 
have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.  Also
someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
with the various races of mankind.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 14 10:11:15 PST 1995
Article: 7896 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Can eugenics save the races?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:56:30 -0800
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Steve Garza wrote:
> 
> In article <30CC2922.4192@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Productivity is THE single most important measure of any human living
> > in an industrialized, technological society. There is simply no place for
> > those who do not produce. In a properly run society, such non-productive
> > people would not survive. We artificially support the non-productive
> > via government administered welfare. Take it away, and these people
> > would have to sink or swim. My guess is that most of them would try
> > to swim.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> But at the same time, we don't want shanty towns springing up, poor sick
> people on the streets spreading disease, or the poor uprising against the
> establishment. That is what seperates us from a third world nation. We
> need workfare, instead of welfare for those who can't find work in the
> private sector. They should be fired from these government supplied jobs
> if they don't work (This is not the USSR.) We must control the breeding of
> the population. We have a finite number of people we can support and the
> only way to continue to advance is to have higher productivity and
> creativeness among that finite number of people.
> 
> Steve Garza
\
OK, I'll buy that. WORKFARE has always been a good idea. Unfortunately,
the liberals in the United States don't like it for some reason. When our
Congress was a liberal country club, for almost 40 RUINOUS years, they
passed a law making it illegal to require welfare recipients to "sing for
their supper". 
Lets look at this scenario: Rastus Johnson is on welfare. He "hangs out"
on the street corner all day with his "blood" cronies. At night he plays
pool and and maybe some cards. If he be lucky, he gits in a knife fight
an' cuts somebody three ways, "long, deep, an' off'en". For this he gets
200 simolians a week  from "de gubmint" .
One day, Rastus gets a notice from the welfare office that he is to show
up at the corner of 6th and Main Street on monday morning at 7:00AM
to dig ditches for the city. Failure to show-up means forfiture of 
benefits. After ax'ing everybody he knows what the word "forfiture" 
means, it finally dawns on him that if he doesn't show up monday at
7 AM, he gets no more money from welfare.
Well, needless to say, our boy shows up as ordered, and works for 
several months digging ditches at $200/week. Eventually a thought
occurs to Rastus: "Why is I workin' like a mule diggin' dees here 
ditches fo' a lousy welfare check, when I could do de same job fo'
a real construction comp'ny fo' three o' fo times dis much?" Rastus,
angry now, goes out and gets himself a real job digging ditches for
Lowenstien Construction Company (Jews always like to help out black
folks), and Viola! another taxpaying EX-welfare recipient. 
But liberals don't like that idea. Its forcing these poor people to 
work against their will, so I guess we'll never see workfare.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 14 10:21:05 PST 1995
Article: 10624 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Can eugenics save the races?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:56:30 -0800
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Steve Garza wrote:
> 
> In article <30CC2922.4192@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Productivity is THE single most important measure of any human living
> > in an industrialized, technological society. There is simply no place for
> > those who do not produce. In a properly run society, such non-productive
> > people would not survive. We artificially support the non-productive
> > via government administered welfare. Take it away, and these people
> > would have to sink or swim. My guess is that most of them would try
> > to swim.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> But at the same time, we don't want shanty towns springing up, poor sick
> people on the streets spreading disease, or the poor uprising against the
> establishment. That is what seperates us from a third world nation. We
> need workfare, instead of welfare for those who can't find work in the
> private sector. They should be fired from these government supplied jobs
> if they don't work (This is not the USSR.) We must control the breeding of
> the population. We have a finite number of people we can support and the
> only way to continue to advance is to have higher productivity and
> creativeness among that finite number of people.
> 
> Steve Garza
\
OK, I'll buy that. WORKFARE has always been a good idea. Unfortunately,
the liberals in the United States don't like it for some reason. When our
Congress was a liberal country club, for almost 40 RUINOUS years, they
passed a law making it illegal to require welfare recipients to "sing for
their supper". 
Lets look at this scenario: Rastus Johnson is on welfare. He "hangs out"
on the street corner all day with his "blood" cronies. At night he plays
pool and and maybe some cards. If he be lucky, he gits in a knife fight
an' cuts somebody three ways, "long, deep, an' off'en". For this he gets
200 simolians a week  from "de gubmint" .
One day, Rastus gets a notice from the welfare office that he is to show
up at the corner of 6th and Main Street on monday morning at 7:00AM
to dig ditches for the city. Failure to show-up means forfiture of 
benefits. After ax'ing everybody he knows what the word "forfiture" 
means, it finally dawns on him that if he doesn't show up monday at
7 AM, he gets no more money from welfare.
Well, needless to say, our boy shows up as ordered, and works for 
several months digging ditches at $200/week. Eventually a thought
occurs to Rastus: "Why is I workin' like a mule diggin' dees here 
ditches fo' a lousy welfare check, when I could do de same job fo'
a real construction comp'ny fo' three o' fo times dis much?" Rastus,
angry now, goes out and gets himself a real job digging ditches for
Lowenstien Construction Company (Jews always like to help out black
folks), and Viola! another taxpaying EX-welfare recipient. 
But liberals don't like that idea. Its forcing these poor people to 
work against their will, so I guess we'll never see workfare.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 14 12:54:21 PST 1995
Article: 10624 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Can eugenics save the races?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:56:30 -0800
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Steve Garza wrote:
> 
> In article <30CC2922.4192@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Productivity is THE single most important measure of any human living
> > in an industrialized, technological society. There is simply no place for
> > those who do not produce. In a properly run society, such non-productive
> > people would not survive. We artificially support the non-productive
> > via government administered welfare. Take it away, and these people
> > would have to sink or swim. My guess is that most of them would try
> > to swim.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> But at the same time, we don't want shanty towns springing up, poor sick
> people on the streets spreading disease, or the poor uprising against the
> establishment. That is what seperates us from a third world nation. We
> need workfare, instead of welfare for those who can't find work in the
> private sector. They should be fired from these government supplied jobs
> if they don't work (This is not the USSR.) We must control the breeding of
> the population. We have a finite number of people we can support and the
> only way to continue to advance is to have higher productivity and
> creativeness among that finite number of people.
> 
> Steve Garza
\
OK, I'll buy that. WORKFARE has always been a good idea. Unfortunately,
the liberals in the United States don't like it for some reason. When our
Congress was a liberal country club, for almost 40 RUINOUS years, they
passed a law making it illegal to require welfare recipients to "sing for
their supper". 
Lets look at this scenario: Rastus Johnson is on welfare. He "hangs out"
on the street corner all day with his "blood" cronies. At night he plays
pool and and maybe some cards. If he be lucky, he gits in a knife fight
an' cuts somebody three ways, "long, deep, an' off'en". For this he gets
200 simolians a week  from "de gubmint" .
One day, Rastus gets a notice from the welfare office that he is to show
up at the corner of 6th and Main Street on monday morning at 7:00AM
to dig ditches for the city. Failure to show-up means forfiture of 
benefits. After ax'ing everybody he knows what the word "forfiture" 
means, it finally dawns on him that if he doesn't show up monday at
7 AM, he gets no more money from welfare.
Well, needless to say, our boy shows up as ordered, and works for 
several months digging ditches at $200/week. Eventually a thought
occurs to Rastus: "Why is I workin' like a mule diggin' dees here 
ditches fo' a lousy welfare check, when I could do de same job fo'
a real construction comp'ny fo' three o' fo times dis much?" Rastus,
angry now, goes out and gets himself a real job digging ditches for
Lowenstien Construction Company (Jews always like to help out black
folks), and Viola! another taxpaying EX-welfare recipient. 
But liberals don't like that idea. Its forcing these poor people to 
work against their will, so I guess we'll never see workfare.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 07:18:30 PST 1995
Article: 16155 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 01:23:35 -0800
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To: Stewart King 
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> : Stewart King wrote:
> > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> : >
> : > : NOBODY PRACTISES RACISM AGAINST BLACKS. That is a liberal point of
> : > : view!
> : > [snip]
> : >
> : > : When liberals try to change it by subsidizing those groups who do not
> : > : posess the genetic makeup to successfully live in an increasingly
> : > : technological world, they make sure that those unsuccessful genes are
> : > : passed along to yet another generation.
> : >
> : > So what you're saying, basically, is that no one's racist any more and
> : > we've got to stop subsidizing those inferior blacks.
> 
> : No, what I'm saying is that society does not practise racism against
> : anyone. Where else can a black man drive a Ferrari and have a home
> : in Brentwood. If this society practised racism the way you liberals
> : believe that racism is practised, this would not be possible.
> 
> (I won't even bother mentioning that I'm not a liberal any more.)  Just
> because racism is no longer institutionalized doesn't mean it doesn't
> exist.  Why do you look at everything in terms of society "practicing"
> something?  There are still quite a few bigoted individuals out there.
> Taken together with the default assumptions of most of the rest of the
> public that black people are all criminals, you have yourself a
> significant racist undercurrent.
> 
> One girl I know here was once a student at a boarding school, and when
> something was stolen from some girl's room they automatically assumed she
> had done it because she was the only black student there.  I mean, she's
> the sweetest girl.  And another used Black History Month as a chance to
> tell the class about "All the things black people could become - cook,
> athlete..."  And this is from basically well-meaning people.
> 
> I'm not denying that some responsibility lies with blacks, or that the most
> important issue is the disintegration of the black family.  I'm just
> saying that sceaming "nobody practices racism against blacks" as if it's
> patently obvious is completely silly.  Ask any of these "exceptional
> blacks" y'all are always bringing up to explain why some blacks are so
> damn smart.  Most of them overcame a lot.  Of course, most of them also
> came from middle-class backgrounds - but nooooo, environment has nothing
> to do with success, it's all genetics.  Never mind that we had legal
> segregation until a generation ago.
> 
> : The fact is that anyone in this country, regardless of race, creed,
> : color or religion, can be successful if they have the right stuff.
> 
> That doesn't mean that they all get the same chance or that all members
> are treated equally.

But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
"Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
look at that really fat woman!"
Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is 
predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder) because
protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct, or popular
liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their philosophy is as phoney
as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture on it!  
I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought hard for
everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of his handicap,
and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race, have 
the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser extent. But 
no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those who are not given
an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or poverty, just have to work
harder AND GET ON WITH IT!

  
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : humans (mostly liberals).

> And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down. 

I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT. 


George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 09:51:59 PST 1995
Article: 8044 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:55:15 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Frank Weltner 
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> > A pedistal to a statue with the name "Pontius Pilate Governor General
> > of Judea" and a Roman date corresponding to 04 BCE through 06 AD has
> > been found at a dig at the Roman seaport of Ceasarium on the Isreali
> > coast. This is the only record ever found to substantiate that Pilate
> > was a real person.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> George, I would like to read about this. Where can I find it. The Roman
> Governor Festus was at Caesaria. I was there in 1970. What a beautiful
> ruin! Sundown, a jazz orchestra playing in the greek theatre, sun going
> down over the Mediterranean. Wow. Gorgeous place.
> 
I dunno Frank, I saw this on the "Learning Channel" recently. I think the 
program was "History's Mysteries" and it was about recent revelations in
the archaeological search for Christ. I suppose back issues of the "Journal
of American Archaeology" would have it. Maybe they have a web site????

George Graves

P.S. your experiences in the Holy Land sound wonderful.


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 10:16:25 PST 1995
Article: 10823 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:55:15 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8044 alt.politics.white-power:10823 alt.revisionism:16173 alt.discrimination:39511

Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> > A pedistal to a statue with the name "Pontius Pilate Governor General
> > of Judea" and a Roman date corresponding to 04 BCE through 06 AD has
> > been found at a dig at the Roman seaport of Ceasarium on the Isreali
> > coast. This is the only record ever found to substantiate that Pilate
> > was a real person.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> George, I would like to read about this. Where can I find it. The Roman
> Governor Festus was at Caesaria. I was there in 1970. What a beautiful
> ruin! Sundown, a jazz orchestra playing in the greek theatre, sun going
> down over the Mediterranean. Wow. Gorgeous place.
> 
I dunno Frank, I saw this on the "Learning Channel" recently. I think the 
program was "History's Mysteries" and it was about recent revelations in
the archaeological search for Christ. I suppose back issues of the "Journal
of American Archaeology" would have it. Maybe they have a web site????

George Graves

P.S. your experiences in the Holy Land sound wonderful.


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 18:25:27 PST 1995
Article: 16173 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:55:15 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8044 alt.politics.white-power:10823 alt.revisionism:16173 alt.discrimination:39511

Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> > A pedistal to a statue with the name "Pontius Pilate Governor General
> > of Judea" and a Roman date corresponding to 04 BCE through 06 AD has
> > been found at a dig at the Roman seaport of Ceasarium on the Isreali
> > coast. This is the only record ever found to substantiate that Pilate
> > was a real person.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> George, I would like to read about this. Where can I find it. The Roman
> Governor Festus was at Caesaria. I was there in 1970. What a beautiful
> ruin! Sundown, a jazz orchestra playing in the greek theatre, sun going
> down over the Mediterranean. Wow. Gorgeous place.
> 
I dunno Frank, I saw this on the "Learning Channel" recently. I think the 
program was "History's Mysteries" and it was about recent revelations in
the archaeological search for Christ. I suppose back issues of the "Journal
of American Archaeology" would have it. Maybe they have a web site????

George Graves

P.S. your experiences in the Holy Land sound wonderful.


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 20:27:45 PST 1995
Article: 16173 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: A few more facts. (Was Re: Million Monkey March)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:55:15 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Frank Weltner 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8044 alt.politics.white-power:10823 alt.revisionism:16173 alt.discrimination:39511

Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> > A pedistal to a statue with the name "Pontius Pilate Governor General
> > of Judea" and a Roman date corresponding to 04 BCE through 06 AD has
> > been found at a dig at the Roman seaport of Ceasarium on the Isreali
> > coast. This is the only record ever found to substantiate that Pilate
> > was a real person.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> George, I would like to read about this. Where can I find it. The Roman
> Governor Festus was at Caesaria. I was there in 1970. What a beautiful
> ruin! Sundown, a jazz orchestra playing in the greek theatre, sun going
> down over the Mediterranean. Wow. Gorgeous place.
> 
I dunno Frank, I saw this on the "Learning Channel" recently. I think the 
program was "History's Mysteries" and it was about recent revelations in
the archaeological search for Christ. I suppose back issues of the "Journal
of American Archaeology" would have it. Maybe they have a web site????

George Graves

P.S. your experiences in the Holy Land sound wonderful.


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 20:47:24 PST 1995
Article: 8107 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:47:05 -0800
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 21:13:28 PST 1995
Article: 10846 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:59:39 -0800
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To: evil Beavis 

evil Beavis wrote:
> 
> George Graves wrote:
> >
> > You know it is impossible to separate what genetically constitutes a
> > race from what CULTURALLY constitutes a race. Genetically, races may
> > be more similar than many would like to believe, but culturally they are
> > MILES apart. There is also some evidence that humans have a cultural
> > memory and that many people take their cultural biases with them when
> > they move to different parts of the world. It also seems that they pass
> > those cutural traits along to generation after generation. This is why
> > after living among the white man for almost 400 years, the black
> > culture is still so different from the white culture that it causes whites
> > to look upon blacks as an inferior race 130 years after the death
> > of slavery. The Irish were universally dispised in the U.S.A. when they
> > first immigrated here in the 1830's through the 1850's. By the 1870's
> > most of that predjudice was gone; why? Because the Irish were
> > culturally close to other European immigrant groups, and assimilation
> > was fairly easy. After the native born Americans became used to the
> > Irish presence, the overt predjudice fell away. The Irish proved themselves
> > to be hardworking, God-fearing people with a passion for their new land, and
> > they were ultimately accepted. The Chinese, on the other hand, worked
> > just as hard (and often alongside the Irishman on the railroad) but because
> > of their obvious racial characteristics both physical and cultural, they
> > have never been fully accepted. You cannot divorce genetic racial
> > characteristics from cultural racial characteristics. It may just be that
> > the cultural differences are really the defining differences in racial
> > relations, not the genetic ones.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> But you forget that being culturally different does not equal being
> culturally inferior...
> 
> eB

Never said it was.  Inferior and superior don't have any real meaning in
this context. Culturally 'fit' to survive or to fail in any given set of 
circumstances, however does have meaning.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 15 21:13:33 PST 1995
Article: 10895 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:47:05 -0800
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:40:16 PST 1995
Article: 16228 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:40:19 PST 1995
Article: 16248 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:46:05 -0800
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:53:11 PST 1995
Article: 8123 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:46:05 -0800
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:53:13 PST 1995
Article: 8133 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:01:07 -0800
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To: Stewart King 
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
> : that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
> : something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
> : "Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
> : Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
> : look at that really fat woman!"
> : Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is
> : predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder)
> : because protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct,
> : or popular liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their
> : philosophy is as phoney as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture
> : on it!
> 
> What are you smoking?  That's one of the things that draws PC the most
> abuse, the part about generating new, more respectful phrases for fat
> people, short people, etc.  Because, as you say, most people still see
> them as fair game - but the flaming libs stick to their guns.
> "Vertically challenged" ring a bell?  "Horizontally overpresent?"  You
> can't say they're not trying.
> 
> : I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
> : boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
> : humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought
> : hard for everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of
> : his handicap, and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
> : Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race,
> : have the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser
> : extent. But no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those
> : who are not given an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or
> : poverty, just have to work harder AND GET ON WITH IT!
> 
> But are you saying that this is right?  Does your friend deserve a harder
> life because of his appearance?  And if not, it's true that the
> disadvantaged should look at things as you say, and work as hard as they
> can, but shouldn't society also be made aware that it's being stupid?
> This started when you screamed "NOBODY PRACTICES RACISM AGAINST
> BLACKS!!!"  You seem to have backed off that now, but I say as long as
> people do you've got to be fighting it.

Right has nothing to do with it. It is the way human nature works. It has 
always been this way, and it always will be. My point is that stupid liberals
are TOLD what to think about this and they only think about those groups 
which are on the liberal's "list". that their philosophy is phoney can be 
easily seen by the fact that their compassion only exists where it is guided.
My example about the liberal clone screaming "Daddy look at that fat woman"
only illustrates that since fat people are not on the "everybody is equal and
we shouldn't belittle anyone" agenda, the liberal never thought to include
them in his child rearing. BECAUSE LIBERALS DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES, THEY JUST REACT AS THEY ARE TOLD TO REACT. This makes the 
whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive 
shouldn't. They're better off because the misery of their lives hasn't 
been lengthened by liberal meddling, and the world is better off not 
having to care for them. 
I repeat (with clarification) No society practices
racism against blacks. Any black who wants to get ahead has only to 
apply what god-given talents he might have and do it.  

> 
> : > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> : >
> : > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : > : humans (mostly liberals).
> 
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> 
> And how do you expect this "dying out" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death in the streets isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

No, your right, it wouldn't. I admit its a problem. But continuing to subsidize
indigents is not the answer either. The more they are supported, the more they 
breed. poverty begets poverty and the problem keeps getting bigger. The only
solution would be to round 'em up and confine them. But even I am not that
cold.

George Graves


> --
> Stewart King -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~slking -
> 
>  "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
>   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
>         - Marco Simons inciting rebellion against net censorship


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:53:14 PST 1995
Article: 8134 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:06:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> 
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To: Jeanne Kowalewski 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8134 alt.politics.white-power:10927 alt.revisionism:16261 alt.politics.correct:66083 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250055 soc.culture.african.american:108896

Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Stewart King wrote:
> * >
> * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> [whack]
> 
> * > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> * >
> * > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> * > : humans (mostly liberals).
> *
> * > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> *
> * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> *
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back the
> clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine and
> the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then see
> which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'savages'
> would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can 
liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
like to know!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:56:39 PST 1995
Article: 10908 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: White Power is losing ground everyday
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:55:10 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Rob Carscadden 

Rob Carscadden wrote:
> 
> Do you miss me, you white power knuckleheads. it's okay go ahead and
> admit it. You've probably lay awake at night wishing I were posting here.
> While I back for a wee bit. These CLOC clowns seem to be getting togather
> and pissing off other people. I've tried to lead some raids into this
> newsgroup, but most netters, like most people tend to want to just ignore
> the White Power Bozos.
> 
> Q: What do you get when all the CLOCer's get together in one room?
> 
> A: One full set of teeth!
> 
> I've been away from my machine, enjoying life, and I've noticed something
> great! The white power movement is in big trouble. Everywhere I look, the
> next generation is embracing diversity and rejecting racism. A few out
> breaks of WP violence (see Fayetteville NC and Fort Bragg) indicate how
> the WP crowd here is doing anything to put itself in the spotlight.
> 
> I chuckle to think of the bonehead principal (in Alabama?) who wanted to
> cancel the prom because interracial couples were going to attend. He's a
> dinosaur and the students indentified him as such. Another WP loser
> clinging, clawing trying to keep his dying ideas alive.
> 
> Embrace diversity, WP is a dying!!!
> 
> What a wonderful thought to have for the holidays!
> 
> I guess however, we miss being able to laugh at these knuckleheads after
> they're all gone.

Oh Contraire, moosebreath.
Just last night, PBS ran a special on racism in America in which various
black leaders admitted that "We (whites and blacks) are farther apart than
ever before. Racism is rampant in America".
Go to any college campus or high school in the country and you will find
groups of blacks congregating together, groups of whites, and groups of
Asians. Most of them will tell you that they have nothing in common with
the other groups, and want no part of them.
Why? Because it is the Natural Order of things. You don't think so because
you are one of those pitiful people who have been brainwashed by almost
50 years of continuous bombardment of liberal hogwash from the Jew-
controlled media. 
Those kids at that high-school you mentioned have been listening to the
same liberal propoganda as you have, and feel the same way. You have
no idea why you believe in multiculturalism, its just because the media
tells you that its hip, with it, and totally RAD. 
There is an old saying with a lot of truth to it. 'One who is not a liberal
in his youth has no heart. He who remains a liberal when he is no longer
young has no brains.' The Jew knows this and uses it to his advantage. He
aims most of his propoganda at the young.
Remember this Mr. Multiculturalist, If one person, regardless of his or her
race refuses to race mix, your 'side' has lost!

George Graves 
>


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:56:40 PST 1995
Article: 10915 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:46:05 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:56:42 PST 1995
Article: 10926 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:01:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> <4ascd7$rlf@decaxp.harvard.edu>
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To: Stewart King 
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
> : that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
> : something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
> : "Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
> : Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
> : look at that really fat woman!"
> : Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is
> : predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder)
> : because protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct,
> : or popular liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their
> : philosophy is as phoney as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture
> : on it!
> 
> What are you smoking?  That's one of the things that draws PC the most
> abuse, the part about generating new, more respectful phrases for fat
> people, short people, etc.  Because, as you say, most people still see
> them as fair game - but the flaming libs stick to their guns.
> "Vertically challenged" ring a bell?  "Horizontally overpresent?"  You
> can't say they're not trying.
> 
> : I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
> : boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
> : humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought
> : hard for everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of
> : his handicap, and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
> : Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race,
> : have the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser
> : extent. But no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those
> : who are not given an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or
> : poverty, just have to work harder AND GET ON WITH IT!
> 
> But are you saying that this is right?  Does your friend deserve a harder
> life because of his appearance?  And if not, it's true that the
> disadvantaged should look at things as you say, and work as hard as they
> can, but shouldn't society also be made aware that it's being stupid?
> This started when you screamed "NOBODY PRACTICES RACISM AGAINST
> BLACKS!!!"  You seem to have backed off that now, but I say as long as
> people do you've got to be fighting it.

Right has nothing to do with it. It is the way human nature works. It has 
always been this way, and it always will be. My point is that stupid liberals
are TOLD what to think about this and they only think about those groups 
which are on the liberal's "list". that their philosophy is phoney can be 
easily seen by the fact that their compassion only exists where it is guided.
My example about the liberal clone screaming "Daddy look at that fat woman"
only illustrates that since fat people are not on the "everybody is equal and
we shouldn't belittle anyone" agenda, the liberal never thought to include
them in his child rearing. BECAUSE LIBERALS DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES, THEY JUST REACT AS THEY ARE TOLD TO REACT. This makes the 
whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive 
shouldn't. They're better off because the misery of their lives hasn't 
been lengthened by liberal meddling, and the world is better off not 
having to care for them. 
I repeat (with clarification) No society practices
racism against blacks. Any black who wants to get ahead has only to 
apply what god-given talents he might have and do it.  

> 
> : > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> : >
> : > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : > : humans (mostly liberals).
> 
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> 
> And how do you expect this "dying out" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death in the streets isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

No, your right, it wouldn't. I admit its a problem. But continuing to subsidize
indigents is not the answer either. The more they are supported, the more they 
breed. poverty begets poverty and the problem keeps getting bigger. The only
solution would be to round 'em up and confine them. But even I am not that
cold.

George Graves


> --
> Stewart King -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~slking -
> 
>  "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
>   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
>         - Marco Simons inciting rebellion against net censorship


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 08:56:43 PST 1995
Article: 10927 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:06:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> 
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Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Stewart King wrote:
> * >
> * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> [whack]
> 
> * > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> * >
> * > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> * > : humans (mostly liberals).
> *
> * > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> *
> * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> *
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back the
> clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine and
> the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then see
> which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'savages'
> would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can 
liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
like to know!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 11:12:08 PST 1995
Article: 66016 of alt.politics.correct
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:47:05 -0800
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 11:12:14 PST 1995
Article: 66048 of alt.politics.correct
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??Armina@cris.com
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:46:05 -0800
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Timothy N French wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Timothy N French wrote:
> >>
> >> George Graves  overstated the case and wrote:
> >>
> >> [chop, chop, chop . . . ]>
> >>
> >> >Steffanie,
> >> >
> >> >Humans are the only animals on earth to have 'races'. The same type of
> >> >biological differences that make up racial classifications in humans,
> >> >constitute 'sub-species' in wild animals and 'breeds' in domestic >animals.
> >>
> >> This is, to say the least, overstaded.  The differences between a
> >> 'sub-species' and a 'breed' is much different than the classification of
> >> race, particulary in an American context.
> >>
> >> >The mountain gorilla and the lowland gorilla are different sub-species
> >> >of gorillas.
> >>
> >> [chop, chop]
> >>
> >> >They can mate and they can produce fertile offspring, so they
> >> >are definitly the same species. They look different, have different >diets, different mating and social rituals. If they were human, they >would be said to
> >>
> >> Nope.  The genetic distinctions between 'sub-species' and breeds are
> >> (relatively) large. Much larger, in fact, than any distinction of race.
> >> A German Shepherd does not have the genetic potential to be a beagle.
> >>
> >> I see where you are going with your point.  I've known some Bio profs
> >> to use this as an analogy.  You go past the point of analogy here.
> >> Moreover, I think that in the context of this discussion (intelligence)
> >> we need consider the reality of genetic potential. The bottom line:  Is
> >> everyone born with the genetic potential to be intelligent?  Excepting
> >> birth defects, I think yes.  Whether you become so or not is based more
> >> on your environment than anything else.
> >>
> >> Hmmmmm.  I suppose a definition of intelligence still needs to be
> >> discussed.
> >>
> >> Timothy
> >
> >Of course breeds, as someone else has pointed out, are "man made", and
> >that is why I did not discuss them. You ask if a german shepherd has the
> >potential to be a beagle. I'll put to you a higher example: does a Chinese
> >have the potential to be a negro? No more than than the shepherd.
> 
> Actually, in an African climate, given 3 generations, the phenotypic
> change in an individual who was of Chinese origin, will make that person
> resemble a "negro."  *Adaptation to the environment.*  A similiar
> argument cannot be made for a Shepherd and a beagle.  Please note that
> the differences in people (ethnicities) are heritable phenotypic traits.
> Phenotypic traits change, relatively quickly, to environmental conditions
> if a need is present for such change.
> 
> Also
> >someone else pointed out that sub-species were well on their way to
> >becoming seperate species. Who is to say that this is not also the case
> >with the various races of mankind.
> >
> 
> Surely you jest?  I must have mistaken you for someone who knew something
> of science.  Either I was wrong, or your just (hopefully) using this for
> the sake of argument.  If you really believe this, you are sadly
> ignorant.  If it's for the sake of argument, it's just silly.
> 
> Timothy

Its a jest, and its supposed to be silly.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 11:12:20 PST 1995
Article: 66082 of alt.politics.correct
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:01:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> <4ascd7$rlf@decaxp.harvard.edu>
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To: Stewart King 
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
> : that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
> : something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
> : "Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
> : Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
> : look at that really fat woman!"
> : Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is
> : predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder)
> : because protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct,
> : or popular liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their
> : philosophy is as phoney as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture
> : on it!
> 
> What are you smoking?  That's one of the things that draws PC the most
> abuse, the part about generating new, more respectful phrases for fat
> people, short people, etc.  Because, as you say, most people still see
> them as fair game - but the flaming libs stick to their guns.
> "Vertically challenged" ring a bell?  "Horizontally overpresent?"  You
> can't say they're not trying.
> 
> : I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
> : boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
> : humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought
> : hard for everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of
> : his handicap, and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
> : Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race,
> : have the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser
> : extent. But no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those
> : who are not given an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or
> : poverty, just have to work harder AND GET ON WITH IT!
> 
> But are you saying that this is right?  Does your friend deserve a harder
> life because of his appearance?  And if not, it's true that the
> disadvantaged should look at things as you say, and work as hard as they
> can, but shouldn't society also be made aware that it's being stupid?
> This started when you screamed "NOBODY PRACTICES RACISM AGAINST
> BLACKS!!!"  You seem to have backed off that now, but I say as long as
> people do you've got to be fighting it.

Right has nothing to do with it. It is the way human nature works. It has 
always been this way, and it always will be. My point is that stupid liberals
are TOLD what to think about this and they only think about those groups 
which are on the liberal's "list". that their philosophy is phoney can be 
easily seen by the fact that their compassion only exists where it is guided.
My example about the liberal clone screaming "Daddy look at that fat woman"
only illustrates that since fat people are not on the "everybody is equal and
we shouldn't belittle anyone" agenda, the liberal never thought to include
them in his child rearing. BECAUSE LIBERALS DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES, THEY JUST REACT AS THEY ARE TOLD TO REACT. This makes the 
whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive 
shouldn't. They're better off because the misery of their lives hasn't 
been lengthened by liberal meddling, and the world is better off not 
having to care for them. 
I repeat (with clarification) No society practices
racism against blacks. Any black who wants to get ahead has only to 
apply what god-given talents he might have and do it.  

> 
> : > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> : >
> : > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : > : humans (mostly liberals).
> 
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> 
> And how do you expect this "dying out" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death in the streets isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

No, your right, it wouldn't. I admit its a problem. But continuing to subsidize
indigents is not the answer either. The more they are supported, the more they 
breed. poverty begets poverty and the problem keeps getting bigger. The only
solution would be to round 'em up and confine them. But even I am not that
cold.

George Graves


> --
> Stewart King -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~slking -
> 
>  "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
>   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
>         - Marco Simons inciting rebellion against net censorship


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 11:12:21 PST 1995
Article: 66083 of alt.politics.correct
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:06:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 45
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> 
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To: Jeanne Kowalewski 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8134 alt.politics.white-power:10927 alt.revisionism:16261 alt.politics.correct:66083 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250055 soc.culture.african.american:108896

Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Stewart King wrote:
> * >
> * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> [whack]
> 
> * > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> * >
> * > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> * > : humans (mostly liberals).
> *
> * > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> *
> * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> *
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back the
> clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine and
> the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then see
> which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'savages'
> would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can 
liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
like to know!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 16:49:28 PST 1995
Article: 16260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:01:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> <4ascd7$rlf@decaxp.harvard.edu>
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To: Stewart King 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8133 alt.politics.white-power:10926 alt.revisionism:16260 alt.politics.correct:66082 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250054 soc.culture.african.american:108895

Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
> : that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
> : something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
> : "Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
> : Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
> : look at that really fat woman!"
> : Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is
> : predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder)
> : because protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct,
> : or popular liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their
> : philosophy is as phoney as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture
> : on it!
> 
> What are you smoking?  That's one of the things that draws PC the most
> abuse, the part about generating new, more respectful phrases for fat
> people, short people, etc.  Because, as you say, most people still see
> them as fair game - but the flaming libs stick to their guns.
> "Vertically challenged" ring a bell?  "Horizontally overpresent?"  You
> can't say they're not trying.
> 
> : I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
> : boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
> : humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought
> : hard for everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of
> : his handicap, and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
> : Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race,
> : have the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser
> : extent. But no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those
> : who are not given an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or
> : poverty, just have to work harder AND GET ON WITH IT!
> 
> But are you saying that this is right?  Does your friend deserve a harder
> life because of his appearance?  And if not, it's true that the
> disadvantaged should look at things as you say, and work as hard as they
> can, but shouldn't society also be made aware that it's being stupid?
> This started when you screamed "NOBODY PRACTICES RACISM AGAINST
> BLACKS!!!"  You seem to have backed off that now, but I say as long as
> people do you've got to be fighting it.

Right has nothing to do with it. It is the way human nature works. It has 
always been this way, and it always will be. My point is that stupid liberals
are TOLD what to think about this and they only think about those groups 
which are on the liberal's "list". that their philosophy is phoney can be 
easily seen by the fact that their compassion only exists where it is guided.
My example about the liberal clone screaming "Daddy look at that fat woman"
only illustrates that since fat people are not on the "everybody is equal and
we shouldn't belittle anyone" agenda, the liberal never thought to include
them in his child rearing. BECAUSE LIBERALS DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES, THEY JUST REACT AS THEY ARE TOLD TO REACT. This makes the 
whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive 
shouldn't. They're better off because the misery of their lives hasn't 
been lengthened by liberal meddling, and the world is better off not 
having to care for them. 
I repeat (with clarification) No society practices
racism against blacks. Any black who wants to get ahead has only to 
apply what god-given talents he might have and do it.  

> 
> : > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> : >
> : > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : > : humans (mostly liberals).
> 
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> 
> And how do you expect this "dying out" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death in the streets isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

No, your right, it wouldn't. I admit its a problem. But continuing to subsidize
indigents is not the answer either. The more they are supported, the more they 
breed. poverty begets poverty and the problem keeps getting bigger. The only
solution would be to round 'em up and confine them. But even I am not that
cold.

George Graves


> --
> Stewart King -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~slking -
> 
>  "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
>   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
>         - Marco Simons inciting rebellion against net censorship


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 16:49:29 PST 1995
Article: 16261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:06:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com>
References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> 
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To: Jeanne Kowalewski 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8134 alt.politics.white-power:10927 alt.revisionism:16261 alt.politics.correct:66083 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250055 soc.culture.african.american:108896

Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Stewart King wrote:
> * >
> * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> [whack]
> 
> * > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> * >
> * > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> * > : humans (mostly liberals).
> *
> * > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> *
> * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> *
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back the
> clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine and
> the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then see
> which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'savages'
> would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can 
liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
like to know!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 21:44:56 PST 1995
Article: 16260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:01:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 92
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> <4ascd7$rlf@decaxp.harvard.edu>
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
> : that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
> : something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
> : "Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
> : Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
> : look at that really fat woman!"
> : Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is
> : predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder)
> : because protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct,
> : or popular liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their
> : philosophy is as phoney as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture
> : on it!
> 
> What are you smoking?  That's one of the things that draws PC the most
> abuse, the part about generating new, more respectful phrases for fat
> people, short people, etc.  Because, as you say, most people still see
> them as fair game - but the flaming libs stick to their guns.
> "Vertically challenged" ring a bell?  "Horizontally overpresent?"  You
> can't say they're not trying.
> 
> : I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
> : boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
> : humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought
> : hard for everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of
> : his handicap, and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
> : Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race,
> : have the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser
> : extent. But no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those
> : who are not given an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or
> : poverty, just have to work harder AND GET ON WITH IT!
> 
> But are you saying that this is right?  Does your friend deserve a harder
> life because of his appearance?  And if not, it's true that the
> disadvantaged should look at things as you say, and work as hard as they
> can, but shouldn't society also be made aware that it's being stupid?
> This started when you screamed "NOBODY PRACTICES RACISM AGAINST
> BLACKS!!!"  You seem to have backed off that now, but I say as long as
> people do you've got to be fighting it.

Right has nothing to do with it. It is the way human nature works. It has 
always been this way, and it always will be. My point is that stupid liberals
are TOLD what to think about this and they only think about those groups 
which are on the liberal's "list". that their philosophy is phoney can be 
easily seen by the fact that their compassion only exists where it is guided.
My example about the liberal clone screaming "Daddy look at that fat woman"
only illustrates that since fat people are not on the "everybody is equal and
we shouldn't belittle anyone" agenda, the liberal never thought to include
them in his child rearing. BECAUSE LIBERALS DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES, THEY JUST REACT AS THEY ARE TOLD TO REACT. This makes the 
whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive 
shouldn't. They're better off because the misery of their lives hasn't 
been lengthened by liberal meddling, and the world is better off not 
having to care for them. 
I repeat (with clarification) No society practices
racism against blacks. Any black who wants to get ahead has only to 
apply what god-given talents he might have and do it.  

> 
> : > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> : >
> : > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : > : humans (mostly liberals).
> 
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> 
> And how do you expect this "dying out" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death in the streets isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

No, your right, it wouldn't. I admit its a problem. But continuing to subsidize
indigents is not the answer either. The more they are supported, the more they 
breed. poverty begets poverty and the problem keeps getting bigger. The only
solution would be to round 'em up and confine them. But even I am not that
cold.

George Graves


> --
> Stewart King -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~slking -
> 
>  "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
>   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
>         - Marco Simons inciting rebellion against net censorship


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 16 21:44:57 PST 1995
Article: 16261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:06:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com>
References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> 
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To: Jeanne Kowalewski 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8134 alt.politics.white-power:10927 alt.revisionism:16261 alt.politics.correct:66083 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250055 soc.culture.african.american:108896

Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Stewart King wrote:
> * >
> * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> [whack]
> 
> * > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> * >
> * > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> * > : humans (mostly liberals).
> *
> * > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> *
> * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> *
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back the
> clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine and
> the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then see
> which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'savages'
> would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can 
liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
like to know!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:24:56 PST 1995
Article: 16260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:01:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> <4ascd7$rlf@decaxp.harvard.edu>
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : But that's true for everyone. The idea that everyone is equal is so stupid
> : that even those who espouse it don't believe in it or live by it. Here is
> : something to chew on. Even liberals who raise their kids '
> : "Oh - so carefully" so that their kids would never say something like "Hey
> : Daddy, look at that negro", have never taught them not to say, "Hey Daddy,
> : look at that really fat woman!"
> : Why? Because there are many types of discrimination and everybody is
> : predjudiced against something. Or maybe (and this is one to ponder)
> : because protecting fat people from abuse isn't a politically correct,
> : or popular liberal cause, they don't think about it. If so, their
> : philosophy is as phoney as a three dollar bill with Clinton's picture
> : on it!
> 
> What are you smoking?  That's one of the things that draws PC the most
> abuse, the part about generating new, more respectful phrases for fat
> people, short people, etc.  Because, as you say, most people still see
> them as fair game - but the flaming libs stick to their guns.
> "Vertically challenged" ring a bell?  "Horizontally overpresent?"  You
> can't say they're not trying.
> 
> : I have a friend who had his face badly mauled by machinery when he was a
> : boy. He is VERY ugly. Do you think he gets an equal chance, even from
> : humanity-loving liberals? I can tell you he does not. He has fought
> : hard for everything he has. He is a successful business man in spite of
> : his handicap, and has little use for what he calls "crybaby minorities".
> : Life is hard. Some people because of looks, money, and yes, even race,
> : have the 'skids of life" greased for them to a greater or lesser
> : extent. But no one is his neighbors equal, and never will be. Those
> : who are not given an equal chance in life due to looks, race, or
> : poverty, just have to work harder AND GET ON WITH IT!
> 
> But are you saying that this is right?  Does your friend deserve a harder
> life because of his appearance?  And if not, it's true that the
> disadvantaged should look at things as you say, and work as hard as they
> can, but shouldn't society also be made aware that it's being stupid?
> This started when you screamed "NOBODY PRACTICES RACISM AGAINST
> BLACKS!!!"  You seem to have backed off that now, but I say as long as
> people do you've got to be fighting it.

Right has nothing to do with it. It is the way human nature works. It has 
always been this way, and it always will be. My point is that stupid liberals
are TOLD what to think about this and they only think about those groups 
which are on the liberal's "list". that their philosophy is phoney can be 
easily seen by the fact that their compassion only exists where it is guided.
My example about the liberal clone screaming "Daddy look at that fat woman"
only illustrates that since fat people are not on the "everybody is equal and
we shouldn't belittle anyone" agenda, the liberal never thought to include
them in his child rearing. BECAUSE LIBERALS DO NOT THINK ABOUT THESE
ISSUES, THEY JUST REACT AS THEY ARE TOLD TO REACT. This makes the 
whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive 
shouldn't. They're better off because the misery of their lives hasn't 
been lengthened by liberal meddling, and the world is better off not 
having to care for them. 
I repeat (with clarification) No society practices
racism against blacks. Any black who wants to get ahead has only to 
apply what god-given talents he might have and do it.  

> 
> : > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> : >
> : > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> : > : humans (mostly liberals).
> 
> : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> 
> : I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> 
> And how do you expect this "dying out" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> starving to death in the streets isn't exactly going to bring crime down.

No, your right, it wouldn't. I admit its a problem. But continuing to subsidize
indigents is not the answer either. The more they are supported, the more they 
breed. poverty begets poverty and the problem keeps getting bigger. The only
solution would be to round 'em up and confine them. But even I am not that
cold.

George Graves


> --
> Stewart King -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~slking -
> 
>  "That leaves: shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker mother-fucker and tits (you
>   have to say it with *rhythm*).  We could all just add these to our .sigs."
>         - Marco Simons inciting rebellion against net censorship


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:24:57 PST 1995
Article: 16261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!news.Cerritos.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:06:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> 
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To: Jeanne Kowalewski 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8134 alt.politics.white-power:10927 alt.revisionism:16261 alt.politics.correct:66083 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250055 soc.culture.african.american:108896

Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Stewart King wrote:
> * >
> * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> [whack]
> 
> * > : > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> * >
> * > : Nature culls unsuccessful lifeforms if allowed to do so by meddling
> * > : humans (mostly liberals).
> *
> * > And how do you expect this "culling" to occur, anyway?  Having people
> * > : > starving to death isn't exactly going to bring crime down.
> *
> * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> *
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back the
> clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine and
> the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then see
> which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'savages'
> would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can 
liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
like to know!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:25:05 PST 1995
Article: 16393 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!xplor.com!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:42:38 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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James wrote:
> 
> It is simply a FACT that blacks score considerably lower on IQ tests than
> any other group. You are free to argue WHY this may be, but to dispute the
> unassailable fact that they DO is preposterous.
> 
>      To claim that IQ tests favor "Europeans" is utterly ridiculous. Asians
> do better on IQ tests in the US than do Whites. Do IQ test deliberately
> favor Asians? Cubans do better in Miami than Blacks. Is the test a "racist"
> exercise, designed to favor the Cubans?
> 
>       How much mental distortion are you willing to go through to try to
> explain away the obvious? Look around you, look at the world. Where is the
> prosperity. Where is the science. Where are the inventions. Case closed.
> 
>       Are Blacks genetically inferior? No. There is another explanation for
> their relative lack of achievement. It will take quite a while to write, so
> I'll have to put it off until later.

Yes, there is another reason. Their culture MAKES them inferior by perpetuating 
ideas such as "Education is honkey stuff. Bloods don't need it." and "Successful 
black people are oreos. Black on the outside, white on the inside."  Not to 
mention; " A rich, black criminal is THE role model for black youngsters. He 
made it without becoming an oreo and toadying to whitey."
As long as these people continue to think this way, they will fail. As long
as they openly persecute those who have left the misery and poverty of ghetto 
life behind for a better life, relatively few will be willing to try it.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:25:06 PST 1995
Article: 16394 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!xplor.com!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:46:03 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Philip Kirschner 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8238 alt.politics.white-power:11035 alt.revisionism:16394 alt.politics.correct:66258 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250361 soc.culture.african.american:108972

Philip Kirschner wrote:
> 
> In <4au1le$hj2@news1.usa.pipeline.com> abc@usa.pipeline.com(James)
> writes:
> >
> >It is simply a FACT that blacks score considerably lower on IQ tests
> >than any other group. You are free to argue WHY this may be, but to
> >dispute the unassailable fact that they DO is preposterous.
> 
> This is untrue, as I know a gentlemen who is an african american
> nuclear physicist who has authored a great number of papers, and is now
> the president of a major university.
> 
> >     To claim that IQ tests favor "Europeans" is utterly ridiculous.
> >Asians do better on IQ tests in the US than do Whites. Do IQ test
> >deliberately favor Asians?
> 
> It educational attitude, you got trash in every race.
> 
> Phil

Citing exceptions to the rule does not make the rule invalid. I can cite
examples of whites with I.Q.s so low as to make them incapable of 
understanding the concept of the shoe lace. This does not make all
whites stupid because of these few cases of moronism.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:25:07 PST 1995
Article: 16395 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,alt.religion.scientology,alt.fan.prettyboy,alt.religion.islam,alt.discrimination,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.atheism,alt.tasteless,alt.cuddle,alt.romance.unhappy,alt.nuke
Subject: Re: ON NATIONALISM, RACISM, AND RELIGION - PLEASE READ, IMPORTANT!!
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:52:30 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Samuel Mishal 
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Samuel Mishal wrote:
> 
> F.White@student.anu.edu.au (Felix Alfred Jonathan White) wrote:
> >#3.1.Liberals, left-wingers, jews, niggaz and other sub-humans are
> >cowards.  This has been proven in many highly academec studies.  They are
> >no match for the tall, strong, highly intellegent Aryan warrior, who will
> >destroy them.
> > #3.2.Since you will all go to HELL (INFERNO), We understand
> >that you will try to obstruct the diffusion of the truth from my buccal
> >cavity as long as you can.  You will all burn in HELL (INFERNO), if you do
> >not follow my word and my teachings, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST AND THE LORD
> >JEHOVA (JAHVE) OUR MASTER AND SAVIOUR AND ULTIMATE JUDGE!!!
> 
> If you think that JEWS are SUB-HUMANS, then why is it that your GOD'S name is
> a JEWISH name. YOUR name is JEWISH (albeit aryanized).
> Your God chose JEWS to be his messengers on earth.
> Einstein (a Jew) is the Greatest scientist that ever existed.
> Speilberg (a Jew) the greatest film maker that ever existed
> etc. etc.
> But that after all is the reason Aryans tried to masacre the race, because it is just ONE proof
> of their BULL SHIT.
> 
> Also similar arguments exist for all other races, but after all your God is a jewish god, so
> I chose to pick the jewish race.

This may be a matter of opinion, but calling Steven Spielberg the greatest
film maker who ever lived is a lot like calling Harold Robbins or Steven
King the greatest writers who ever lived. It jest ain't so. Anyone who 
knows anything about film will tell you that the greatest film maker who
ever lived was John Ford. And coincidently, he was NOT a Jew!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:25:08 PST 1995
Article: 16396 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,alt.religion.scientology,alt.fan.prettyboy,alt.religion.islam,alt.discrimination,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.atheism,alt.tasteless,alt.cuddle,alt.romance.unhappy,alt.nuke
Subject: Re: ON NATIONALISM, RACISM, AND RELIGION - PLEASE READ, IMPORTANT!!
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:55:20 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Lizard 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:8240 alt.revisionism:16396 alt.politics.white-power:11037 alt.censorship:57493 alt.religion.scientology:90159 alt.religion.islam:12134 alt.discrimination:39626 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:250363 alt.atheism:4280 alt.tasteless:73743 alt.cuddle:27297 alt.romance.unhappy:4225 alt.nuke:21

Lizard wrote:
> 
> On 15 Dec 1995 04:09:22 GMT, F.White@student.anu.edu.au (Felix Alfred
> Jonathan White) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You know, it astonishes me how liberals believe they can imitate their
> foes based solely on acting like they think their foes act. Anyone who
> has read *real* Nazi posts (of which there are a sad abundance) will
> see how horribly flawed that pathetic attempt was. For one thing, it
> focussed on *liberal* obsessions "automatic weapons", not National
> Socialist ones. For another -- Hitler, and the other National
> Socialists, were all rabid conservationists/environmentalists, and if
> you read the National Socialism FAQ, you'll find that they blame
> 'capitalist greed' for destroying the environment. (More proof there
> is no difference between National Socialism and every other variety --
> they all hate the productive man)
> 
> Go back to your "Nation" and your "Village Voice". Come back when you
> understand your enemy. As it is now, you're more a danger to your side
> than theirs.
> *------------------------------------------------------------*
> Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
> Christmas -- Bah! Humbug!:C. Dickens
> URL:http:\\www.dnai.com\~lizard

Well, you caught on. How come the rest didn't?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 09:25:11 PST 1995
Article: 16419 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:26:02 -0800
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets bigger.
> : Its already almost beyond control.
> 
> I've seen a sign up around campus this week:
> 
> AVERAGE NUMBER OF CHILDREN
> --------------------------
> Average American family: 2.2
> American family on AFDC: 1.9
> 
> I can't append a citation off the top of my head, but my guess is that this
> could be easily prooved one way or another by checking the relevant
> governmment statistics, which shouldn't be too hard to find if anyone
> cares to contest this.
> 
> Mark

Why contest it, its irrelevant. An "Average American Family" can ostensibly
support their offspring without government assistance and impart to them
mainstream American values and give them a decent education. The family
on AFDC cannot. Its not the raw numbers that count, its the size of the 
underclasses of society which are growing at a rate consistant with 
general population growth. I.e. more and more each generation. More kids
to grow up without values, without hope, lives led in utter futility and 
despair.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:35 PST 1995
Article: 10945 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: ON NATIONALISM, RACISM, AND RELIGION - PLEASE READ, IMPORTANT!!
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:10:55 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: SteveSalter 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.atheism:4195 alt.politics.white-power:10945

SteveSalter wrote:
> 
> >F.White@student.anu.edu.au (Felix Alfred Jonathan White) wrote:
> >>#3.1.Liberals, left-wingers, jews, niggaz and other sub-humans are
> >>cowards.  This has been proven in many highly academec studies.  They are
> >>no match for the tall, strong, highly intellegent Aryan warrior, who will
> >>destroy them.
> 
> Sheesh, see what religion does to ya? Makes ya all crazy inna head.Some
> people get warm, fuzzy feelings from religion and others get hot, hateful
> feelings. Obviously, this brainwashed moron is one of the hateful types.
> 
> S.
Steve, this particular "brainwashed moron"  (F.A.J. White)is pulling your 
lariat. Successfully too.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:36 PST 1995
Article: 10946 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: You've been had! "ON NATIONALISM,  RACISM, AND RELIGION"
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:17:18 -0800
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I can't believe how many of you liberals fell for this! This guy,  F.A.J. White,
is putting you all on! He doesn't mean ANY of it. Its a parody of alt. politics.
white-power, and all of you fell for it! HOORAY! This is the funniest thing
I've seen since the democrats started lying about the GOP medicare plan!
I love it!!!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:40 PST 1995
Article: 11038 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Sickening... (Are people so blind???)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:57:41 -0800
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Daniel Groden wrote:
> 
>      Well, I just sat here for the last half hour reading the
> bickering back and forth, and frankly, am quite disgusted...
> (which is how I usually am when reading liberalist babbling)
> 
>      Can you people (of the non-racialist variety) be so blind
> to the plight of our race?  If not... then at LEAST, the plight
> of our country.
> 
>      I mean, do you people watch the news?  Open your eyes when
> you go outside, or what?  The drugs, the gangs, all of it...
> and we're all still all equal?
> 
>      I know that not all white people are saints, but those
> folks are for us to deal with accordingly, we shouldn't have to
> buy taxes to keep immigrants well fed and clothed in jail, now
> should we?  We shouldn't have to worry about gangs attacking
> us, attacking our CHILDREN, or selling them drugs, right?
> 
>      These issues seem to bother all of us, but when we try and
> help put a stop to it, all we get is flack in return.
> 
>      Look at Canada before this BIG boom of immigration, were
> there as many drug dealers, rapists, pimps, and gangs around
> then?
> 
>      Nowadays, alot of white youth aren't even proud of their
> culture, they act like they are black, or oriental, or
> whatever.  Why?  I believe it is because of the liberal media
> making it sound HORRID to be white and proud.  I mean, do
> blacks get treated like garbage when they scream "Black pride"?
> 
>      So if you people are really so anti-racist... why are you
> just centering out the proud white man?
> 
>      People complain about hate... well maybe if we weren't
> treated so badly because of our pride in our heritage, we
> wouldn't be so full of hate... a hate for the ones who are
> trying to take away that pride.
> 
>       Nobody mentions the good part about being racialists...
> patriots, fiercely anti-drugs, and full of love for their
> people... is this all so wrong?
> 
> Seriously... think about it...
> (of course, I am going to get a volly of hate replies because
> of this... and we're the hate-mongers?)
> 
> And before you go around calling ME ignorant... I research ALL
> sides to these issues... as opposed to MOST liberalists who are
> very much one-sided (always believe what you read?)... So who
> is ignorant?

Friend, you have hit the nail squarely upon the head!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:40 PST 1995
Article: 11039 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Sickening... (Are people so blind???)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 17:01:47 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: "Jeffrey G. Brown" 

Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> 
> In article <4asd23$3is@grid.direct.ca>, Daniel Groden  wrote:
> 
> >      Well, I just sat here for the last half hour reading the
> > bickering back and forth, and frankly, am quite disgusted...
> > (which is how I usually am when reading liberalist babbling)
> >
> >      Can you people (of the non-racialist variety) be so blind
> > to the plight of our race?  If not... then at LEAST, the plight
> > of our country.
> >
> >      I mean, do you people watch the news?  Open your eyes when
> > you go outside, or what?  The drugs, the gangs, all of it...
> > and we're all still all equal?
> 
> Yes. In the US at least, all people are equal in the sight of the law.
> Once a person is convicted of a crime, of course, he may be singled out
> for appropriate consequences.
> 
> The problem with racists is that they wish to deal out consequences before
> the conviction. They want to punish others simply for having the wrong
> color skin, being a member of the wrong faith, or being from the wrong
> part of the world.
> 
(SNIP)

Jeffery, hve you heard of curing the disease, rather than just treating the
symptoms. You liberals only want to deal with EFFECT. We 
anti-multiculturalists are realistic enough to want to deal with the CAUSE.
As long as the cause is allowed to exist, there is no cure.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:41 PST 1995
Article: 11043 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Technological inferiority = moral superiority
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:36:51 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Les Griswold 

Les Griswold wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) writes:
> > Les Griswold wrote:
> 
> (snip)
> 
> >> That's true enough.  H.L. Mencken (I think) once observed that the Semite
> >> simply has no conception of how to rule fairly or justly; this is
> >> encouraging, because it means that jews simply don't know how not to push
> >> their arrogance to extremes, and it's going to piss off a LOT of people
> >> (heck, it already has).
> 
> Sorry, that observation about the semites' inability to rule fairly was
> made by Ezra Pound.  H.L. Mencken did say something that was really funny,
> though, and very true:
> 
> "The case against the Jews is long and damning; it would justify ten
> thousand times as many pogroms as now go on in the world."
> 
> > Well, history tells us that the Eternal Jew, eventually overplays his hand.
> > He has been trying to rule the world for 2000 years. Every country that
> > he has ever infested, has gone along with him to some point, and then
> > either tried to kill the entire lot, or thrown their asses out. Let's hope
> > the evil thing stumbles this time as well.
> 
> There's no need to hope.  The jews will fuck up again, just like they have
> before, just like they can't HELP but doing.
> 
> > He is closer to winning this time than ever before, however because he has,
> > using his power in media, created several generations of brainwashed minions
> > called "liberals" who unwittingly and unthinkingly do his bidding.
> 
> That's true, but the jews have always had _shabbas goy_ to do their bidding,
> and the concept of mercenaries is an old one.  What's really going to be
> funny, though, will be seeing how fast the liberal fellow-travellers abandon
> their erstewhile hebrew companions when they finally realize that they're
> backing a loser.
> 
> Les

Will they realize it though, Les. From some of the posts by their minions on 
this NG alone, they don't even realize that these ideas of multiculturalism 
and race-mixing aren't their ideas (the mark of a successful brainwashing 
operation is when the subjects have no idea that the ideas and actions that 
they carry out aren't their own). I think unless people like eB, Lzaird. Crazy 
Jeannie have some trauma which wakes them up (liked being mugged and 
having the holy crap beat out of 'em by a bunch of black toughs), they will 
never change their attitudes. 50 years of constant brainwashing would be
hard to overcome.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:43 PST 1995
Article: 11072 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Still nobody has told me what constitutes a "white" person.
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:19:58 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Rob Vanderkam 

Rob Vanderkam wrote:
> 
> I've been reading here awhile to see if I could learn something
> new about being white that I didn't know before. But so far I've
> only seen rhetoric about God's will and Aryan purity and that's
> an excuse to cause conflict and pretend to be superior.
> 
> I've seen no evidence that biologically or geographically there
> is a line making some people white and others not. There's no
> common isolated history for any people's on the planet. Migration
> and trading have seen to a mixing of culture and genes as far
> back as evidence shows and, therefore, probably before that.
> 
> OR AM I WRONG?
> 
> If there is no evidence to back up your rhetoric, I can't respect
> any of this talk.
> 
> --
> Rob Vanderkam

You're wrong! The reason why you haven't found an answer to your question is 
two-fold. 1) Nobody takes your question seriously, because no one believes
that anyone smart enough to operate a computer and get onto the internet, 
could be THAT stupid. So, your question must be a put-on, right?
2) Assuming that you are stupid enough to ask an asinine question like that,
just reading the way you couch the question would tell anyone that no 
answer that you would be likely to receive would be 'the correct answer'.
Ergo, no one bothers.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 17 15:27:44 PST 1995
Article: 11076 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Technological inferiority = moral superiority
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 23:28:13 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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To: Ronald Schoedel 

Ronald Schoedel wrote:
> 
> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
> >Well, George, at this point, I have to ask:  if eB, Slimy Lizard and Crazy
> >Jeannie are the best that the jews can muster to their banner, what have we got
> >to fear?
> 
> ESPECIALLY seeing as how everyone around seems to have noticed that they
> are recycling the same old ZOG BS over and over and over.  Nothing new
> in several months.  Repeat a lie long enough and eventually you'll
> believe it yourself, that's what these poor slobs' problem is.
> 
> Rev. Ron

You certainly have a point there REV.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 08:49:56 PST 1995
Article: 16569 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!xplor!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:40:00 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <199510271456.PAA20870@utopia.hacktic.nl> <49feao$73o@castle.nando.net> <30BBBBEF.122E@teex  <4acubo$meb@peabody.Colorado.EDU>  <17473B7D4S86.KENH@yaleads.ycc.yale.edu> 
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> In article <17473B7D4S86.KENH@yaleads.ycc.yale.edu>,
> KENH@yaleads.ycc.yale.edu (Ken Hudson) wrote:
> 
> :In article 
> :potato@mo.net (Frank Weltner) writes:
> :
> :>They are a selected group. This is mere anecdotal finger pointing. The
> :>real situation among blacks is a Mean Average IQ of 83, below retarded.
> :>Are some of them smarter? Hell, yes. Many? About 2 million blacks vs. 60
> :>million whites. No amount of civil rights can correct this type of
> :>statistical deficiency.
> :
> :The correlation between IQ scores and race has not been properly
> :researched.  Is the correlation based on intrinsic genetic nature,
> :or does the correlation match the correlation between numbers of
> :various racial groups and poverty, poor education, lack of developmental
> :stimulation in early years (from poverty, etc.).  Since the worst
> :educational (worst school systems) and economic profiles belong to African-
> :Americans, wouldn't you EXPECT all scores to be lower?

Why would this be so? I thought we had integration in this country. Are you 
saying that any school attended by black kids is, by definition, one of
your "worst school systems"? Does that also mean that any white or Asian
students in attendance at that school would also suffer from low IQ scores?

If that is your contention, you are way off base. According to an NEA study,
Asians and whites attending predominantly black schools in four 'test'
areas (Detroit, Mobile Alabama, Chicago, and Saint Louis MO), scored 
consistantly higher than did their black counterparts on IQ, and SAT 
tests; and their scores were consistant with those of their same  group
attending predominantly white schools. Apologize your way out of that one!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 08:49:57 PST 1995
Article: 16570 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:48:48 -0800
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To: Chris Camfield 
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Chris Camfield wrote:
> 
> In article <30D27CC3.5466@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> [snip]
> >whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
> >survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive
> >shouldn't.
> 
> So, if someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger, is that all
> right?  You don't survive, so obviously that must have been for the
> betterment of the species?
> 
> If not, why not?

Your strawman reasoning aside, essentially, yes. In a statistical sense that
is correct. Obviously, in a personal sense it is most definitely NOT correct.
but were not talking of the survival of individuals here, were talking about
the survival of individual traits that would make a group successful or
not successful - survival skills, if you will. The same set of skills that
would make a Zulu a great warrior on the Velt of the Transvaal in Africa,
would not suit that individual very well in the streets of Chicago, or in 
Silicon Valley.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 08:49:58 PST 1995
Article: 16571 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:49:02 -0800
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To: Chris Camfield 
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Chris Camfield wrote:
> 
> In article <30D27CC3.5466@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> [snip]
> >whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
> >survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive
> >shouldn't.
> 
> So, if someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger, is that all
> right?  You don't survive, so obviously that must have been for the
> betterment of the species?
> 
> If not, why not?

Your strawman reasoning aside, essentially, yes. In a statistical sense that
is correct. Obviously, in a personal sense it is most definitely NOT correct.
but were not talking of the survival of individuals here, were talking about
the survival of individual traits that would make a group successful or
not successful - survival skills, if you will. The same set of skills that
would make a Zulu a great warrior on the Velt of the Transvaal in Africa,
would not suit that individual very well in the streets of Chicago, or in 
Silicon Valley.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 08:49:59 PST 1995
Article: 16572 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:52:35 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com> <4ascd7$rlf@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D27CC3.5466@aimnet.com> 
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To: Chris Camfield 
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Chris Camfield wrote:
> 
> In article <30D27CC3.5466@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> [snip]
> >whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
> >survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive
> >shouldn't.
> 
> So, if someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger, is that all
> right?  You don't survive, so obviously that must have been for the
> betterment of the species?
> 
> If not, why not?

Your strawman reasoning aside, essentially, yes. In a statistical sense that
is correct. Obviously, in a personal sense it is most definitely NOT correct.
but were not talking of the survival of individuals here, were talking about
the survival of individual traits that would make a group successful or
not successful - survival skills, if you will. The same set of skills that
would make a Zulu a great warrior on the Velt of the Transvaal in Africa,
would not suit that individual very well in the streets of Chicago, or in 
Silicon Valley.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 08:50:00 PST 1995
Article: 16573 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:57:48 -0800
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Chris Camfield wrote:
> 
> In article <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> [snip]
> >I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
> >of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
> >either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
> >do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
> >about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
> >bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can
> >liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
> >like to know!
> 
> This boy really ought to do some research about population growth and its
> relationship with wealth.  Hint:  as people get richer, they don't start
> having _more_ children.
> --
>What the hell are you talking about!? Are you saying that people on welfare
are getting richer so they have fewer children. I DON'T THINK SO! People
on welfare get a bigger check with each kid they add to the fold, that is 
how the system "works".

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 08:50:01 PST 1995
Article: 16574 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:58:05 -0800
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Chris Camfield wrote:
> 
> In article <30D27CC3.5466@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> [snip]
> >whole issue hypocritical in the extreme. People who will survive, will
> >survive -for the betterment of the species. Those who can't survive
> >shouldn't.
> 
> So, if someone puts a gun to your head and pulls the trigger, is that all
> right?  You don't survive, so obviously that must have been for the
> betterment of the species?
> 
> If not, why not?

Your strawman reasoning aside, essentially, yes. In a statistical sense that
is correct. Obviously, in a personal sense it is most definitely NOT correct.
but were not talking of the survival of individuals here, were talking about
the survival of individual traits that would make a group successful or
not successful - survival skills, if you will. The same set of skills that
would make a Zulu a great warrior on the Velt of the Transvaal in Africa,
would not suit that individual very well in the streets of Chicago, or in 
Silicon Valley.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Dec 18 09:58:33 PST 1995
Article: 11193 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Still nobody has told me what constitutes a "white" person.
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 23:32:29 -0800
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To: Rob Vanderkam 

Rob Vanderkam wrote:
> 
> To George Graves  who wrote the
> reply below to me via email...
> 
> I take it from your answer that you don't know the answer
> either.
> 
> If the definition of "White race" is so clear to you, tell me
> the biological and geographical source of it. If it's such
> an "asinine" question, you should have no problem.
> 
> Ah. And you expect me to believe that you have an academic
> education of some kind, that you can define "race" in
> biological terms, and that you aren't swallowing someone's
> racist ignorance?

Oh, I know all right and so do you. Everyone  here sees through you
and won't play your silly game. You've got some smart-ass bullshit
that you just can't wait to throw back at whoever is gullible enough
to try to give you an "answer" Why don't you stop playing games and
come clean. We'll all be too happy to show you why you're full of it.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 19 08:47:23 PST 1995
Article: 11315 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Sleazy beaver is a twit, doo dah, doo dah
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 04:08:03 -0800
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References: <4ag4bm$heq@news3.cts.com> <4ahhuh$oal@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com> <4am1ar$f4h@daryl.scsn.net> <13DEC95.10910245.0077@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> <4amq1b$sav@amhux3.amherst.edu> <4ami6f$i0s@daryl.scsn.net> <30D0F52E.D35@scott.net> <4at2kk$112@spectator.cris.com> <4au1d4$ii8@tst.hk.super.net>
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To: Mr Richard Ethan Latker 

Mr Richard Ethan Latker wrote:
> 
> Ronald Schoedel (Schoedel@aol.com) wrote:
> : I suppose it is news to you that the noble Mr. Jefferson also said that
> : the blacks and whites could never live together under one government...
> 
> That didn't stop him from boffing his 16-year-old black mistress, though.
> 
> RL

If you look in the dictionary under "revisionist history", the dictionary
will refer you to the above post.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 19 08:47:23 PST 1995
Article: 11316 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Hey kids, Salty's back! (wuz: Re: "Col" Marlow is a twit, doo dah, doo dah)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 04:11:00 -0800
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Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <4b09k5$nmk@news.gate.net>, salty@gate.net wrote:
> 
> * >   evil Beavis  writes:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> * >  Yes, and it's something most decent Americans are ashamed of. Of course,
> * >  people like you would not understand what having a conscience and decency
> * >  is all about...
> *
> * **** You "decent" nigger loving liberals are responsible for the decline
> * of America, i.e. illegitimacy, dope, illiteracy, illegal immigration, etc.
> * Leave the country!  If you love niggers so much, go to Africa, Somalia,
> * Haiti, etc.
> *
> *                   Salty - America is for White People
> 
> Welcome back, Psycho! Where have you been -- out on the road scoping out
> watertowers for sniper practice again? Too bad you missed the posts by
> Speedy. You two would have made quite a team: WPeers for Prozac. Don't
> disappear so quickly this time you ol' lunatic; we liberals miss you when
> you're not hurling insults and threats our way.
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.
> Ordained Minister, Universal Life Church

Salty might be a little....uh...rough around the edges, but he sure does hit
more than his share of home runs, and thats the way to win ball games.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 20 09:23:05 PST 1995
Article: 16862 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:36:56 -0800
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : Why contest it, its irrelevant. An "Average American Family" can ostensibly
> : support their offspring without government assistance and impart to them
> : mainstream American values and give them a decent education. The family
> : on AFDC cannot. Its not the raw numbers that count, its the size of the
> : underclasses of society which are growing at a rate consistant with
> : general population growth. I.e. more and more each generation. More kids
> : to grow up without values, without hope, lives led in utter futility and
> : despair.
> 
> Hrm.  What you said before was something along the lines of, "the more
> that we subsidize the indigent members of society, the more they breed,
> and the problem just gets bigger" (if I could do that nifty cut-and-paste
> thing, I would, but I think that's fairly accurate).  This is
> considerably different then saying that the underclasses are growing
> because more people are sliding into poverty, which is actually closer to
> the truth.
> 
> Mark

I see no inconsistency here. The underclasses grow because they are 
subsidized to do so. The more children that welfare recipients have,
the bigger the check. Each newborn may result in a few extra bucks 
for mom, but the child has just been born into a hopeless situation.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 20 10:34:00 PST 1995
Article: 11455 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.polit
Subject: Re: Why is Rush Fat?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:57:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Rob Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> If I may borrow a theory from one of our racist brothers:
> 
> Rush is fat because God wanted to make it easy for us to see what a
> repugnant waste of molecular energy he truly is.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Rob K.
> --
> A '57 Nash on the Information SuperHighway

I'm not a Rush fan, per se, I don't watch him very often, but when I do, 
I notice that he ALWAYS has his facts in line, he always has the right
piece of film to show democrats lying, crawdading, and generally 
talking out of both sides of their mouth at once (except for Clinton,
of course. He's usually talking out of his ass). But one thing is for 
sure, Rob, ol' boy. He makes more sense in one broadcast than you have
made in the entire time that you have posting to this NG.

George Graves

P.S. Rush has lost over 60 lbs since labor day. Pretty soon his fatness
won't be an issue


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 20 10:34:01 PST 1995
Article: 11460 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Hey kids, Salty's back! (wuz: Re: "Col" Marlow is a twit, doo dah, doo dah)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 18:02:46 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> In article <30D55A54.2656@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> * Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> * >
> * > In article <4b09k5$nmk@news.gate.net>, salty@gate.net wrote:
> * >
> * > * >   evil Beavis  writes:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> * > *                   Salty - America is for White People
> * >
> * > Welcome back, Psycho! Where have you been -- out on the road scoping out
> * > watertowers for sniper practice again? Too bad you missed the posts by
> * > Speedy. You two would have made quite a team: WPeers for Prozac. Don't
> * > disappear so quickly this time you ol' lunatic; we liberals miss you when
> * > you're not hurling insults and threats our way.
> * >
> * > Rev. Jeanne K.
> * > Ordained Minister, Universal Life Church
> *
> * Salty might be a little....uh...rough around the edges, but he sure does hit
> * more than his share of home runs, and thats the way to win ball games.
> *
> * George Graves
> 
> The only time that Salty would use a bat is if he runs out of bullets. Are
> you sure that you want to be on his team, George? You seem to have a
> streak of common sense, which might be considered liberalism by some of
> the wild-eyed knuckledraggers. Maybe you could get him in a straightjacket
> and use a beltsander to smooth him out, eh?
> 
> Rev. Jeanne K.

Nah, he does such a good job of liberal baiting here, that I would hate to see
him go away. Boy he sure makes you Libs howl!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 20 14:35:47 PST 1995
Article: 302537 of talk.politics.misc
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.polit
Subject: Re: Why is Rush Fat?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:57:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Rob Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> If I may borrow a theory from one of our racist brothers:
> 
> Rush is fat because God wanted to make it easy for us to see what a
> repugnant waste of molecular energy he truly is.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Rob K.
> --
> A '57 Nash on the Information SuperHighway

I'm not a Rush fan, per se, I don't watch him very often, but when I do, 
I notice that he ALWAYS has his facts in line, he always has the right
piece of film to show democrats lying, crawdading, and generally 
talking out of both sides of their mouth at once (except for Clinton,
of course. He's usually talking out of his ass). But one thing is for 
sure, Rob, ol' boy. He makes more sense in one broadcast than you have
made in the entire time that you have posting to this NG.

George Graves

P.S. Rush has lost over 60 lbs since labor day. Pretty soon his fatness
won't be an issue


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 20 17:54:34 PST 1995
Article: 224359 of talk.politics.guns
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.polit
Subject: Re: Why is Rush Fat?
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:57:07 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Rob Kowalewski wrote:
> 
> If I may borrow a theory from one of our racist brothers:
> 
> Rush is fat because God wanted to make it easy for us to see what a
> repugnant waste of molecular energy he truly is.
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> Rob K.
> --
> A '57 Nash on the Information SuperHighway

I'm not a Rush fan, per se, I don't watch him very often, but when I do, 
I notice that he ALWAYS has his facts in line, he always has the right
piece of film to show democrats lying, crawdading, and generally 
talking out of both sides of their mouth at once (except for Clinton,
of course. He's usually talking out of his ass). But one thing is for 
sure, Rob, ol' boy. He makes more sense in one broadcast than you have
made in the entire time that you have posting to this NG.

George Graves

P.S. Rush has lost over 60 lbs since labor day. Pretty soon his fatness
won't be an issue


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 00:35:02 PST 1995
Article: 11651 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: race relations
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:48:19 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Message Here
> My teacher says that you people don't like black people,  My best friend is black, and I think that he is pretty cool.  Mike O'flynn
> 
>   

Well, Mikey, your teacher is a left-wing liberal rat who is filling your
young head with enough mush to make sure that the next generation is 
just as screwed-up as as "Generation X". Ask the nice traitor who taught
you this if he/she has any idea of the incalculable damage that his/her kind 
is doing to society. And then ask if they will be around to pick-up the pieces
when it all comes down around you.

George Graves
P.S. Watch your 'best friend' that he doesn't shoot you for your allowance 
money.


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 02:44:54 PST 1995
Article: 11709 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: WHITE POWER FOLLOWERS PLEASE READ THIS
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:41:36 -0800
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To: ibokor 

ibokor wrote:
> 
> : :: They can have a chunk of Africa and if they don't like that then that's
> : :: just too bad.
> : :
> : :*sigh*  there are heaps and heaps of US citizens to whom Africa is no
> : :more than a potiential holiday destination.  Why should they be forced
> : :to go there?
> : :
> : :Because that's where they descended from?  By that logic, all "white
> : :Americans" should go back to Europe.
> : :
> 
> If current theory and speculation is correct,  then *all* humans are
> descendents of people from Africa.
> 
> d.A.

This repitition of the obvious gets boring.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 09:44:53 PST 1995
Article: 17098 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:24:31 -0800
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References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>  <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com> <4av5h6$bso@decaxp.harvard.edu> <4av8dj$so6@daryl.scsn.net>  <4b552n$pe9@daryl.scsn.net> <4b6hjv$e6u@decaxp.harvard.edu>
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Mark Staloff wrote:
> 
> Racial Theorist (xyz@scsn.net) wrote:
> 
> : :AVERAGE NUMBER OF CHILDREN
> : :--------------------------
> : :Average American family: 2.2
> : :American family on AFDC: 1.9
> 
> : so basically raggedy has confirmed that i was 100% correct in
> : questioning staloff and his source.  thank you for confirming that i
> : was correct, raggedy!
> 
> Uh, R.C., a few things.
> 
> 1)  I invited people to look this up, as I wasn't certain myself.  You
> didn't look it up, just said you had a hunch the numbers were wrong; the
> fact they were proves nothing other than luck.
> 
> 2) The new numbers prove my point even *better* than the numbers I had
> posted, as they show an even greater disparity in family size.  So you
> can sit there and chuckle about how you were right to question me,
> meanwhile GEORGE'S ARGUMENT has been undermined.
> 
> Hello?  Guten Morgen?
> 
> Reverend Mark

Has it been undermined? in what way? I remeber saying in a post of a 
day or two ago that the indigent were multiplying at a rate consistant
with the general population. I think 1.9 to 2.2 is certainly close enough,
besides what does one do with 1/3 of a child?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 09:44:54 PST 1995
Article: 17099 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:27:44 -0800
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Chris Camfield wrote:
> 
> In article <30D5573C.600A@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves   wrote:
> >Chris Camfield wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com>,
> >> George Graves   wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> >I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have groups
> >> >of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part in it,
> >> >either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate. What
> >> >do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do something
> >> >about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem gets
> >> >bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can
> >> >liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd really
> >> >like to know!
> >>
> >> This boy really ought to do some research about population growth and its
> >> relationship with wealth.  Hint:  as people get richer, they don't start
> >> having _more_ children.
> >> --
> >>What the hell are you talking about!? Are you saying that people on welfare
> >are getting richer so they have fewer children. I DON'T THINK SO! People
> >on welfare get a bigger check with each kid they add to the fold, that is
> >how the system "works".
> >
> >George Graves
> 
> You failed to understand Mark Staloff's post, didn't you?  The number
> of poor people grows, at least in part, because of what our society
> does to them (companies make workers redundent through machinery,
> people find themselves unemployable because of their skill set, etc)
> and you want to blame them for it, and ship them out of the country or
> somesuch.
> 
> Let me make a radical claim:  if those people on welfare were in an
> environment where they had a job, were reasonably comfortable, and had
> HOPE, then they probably wouldn't be having many kids.
> 
> But more and more, government serves companies before its citizens.
> --
>                Christopher Camfield      

You gleaned ALL OF THAT from Staloff's post? What are clarivoyant?


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 09:44:55 PST 1995
Article: 17100 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It wasn't six million, Mr. Griswold
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:10:26 -0800
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Ken McVay OBC wrote:
> 
> In article , Les Griswold wrote:
> 
> >Yes, one would think that the Germans WOULD have a vested interest in
> >getting the word out about how Eisenhower engineered the deaths of 3
> >million of their fighting men, but seeing as they're willing, even eager, to
> >believe the story about the "6 million", it sort of makes one realize that
> >one cannot expect any sort of sanity or reason from Germans these days.
> >(the German government, anyway)
> 
> The correct figure is much closer to 12-million, Mr. Griswold,
> but I wouldn't expect you to know that - you're long on talk
> and short on reality.
> 
> Perhaps the reason the German government, and the German
> people, accept the reality of the Holocaust is that they are
> fully aware of that reality. It permeates their lives, its
> documents and testimonies fill their warehouses. That reality,
> Mr. Griswold, is beyond question.. except, of course, for
> spiteful, xenophobic extremists who have a vested interest in
> cleansing the Hitler image.
> 
> --

Right after the war, the figure was 12 million Jews. Then It dropped to
10, then to 8, and finally, it stuck at 6 million. Funny thing though, in a
1939 article the New York Times added the census figures together for
pre-war Europe (including the Soviet Union) and came up with a total
Jewish population for all of Europe at under 4 million. 
Needless to say,  that the Nazis killed a lot of Jews. There are some 
traditionally Jewish countries in Europe in which, today, a Jew is a 
comparitive rarity, like Poland, for instance. I suspect that the true
figure for Jews killed as a DIRECT result of Nazi persecution is no
more than a million to a million and a half tops. The rest of them came
to the USA, Canada, England, etc.

Imagine this if you will: a country no larger than the state of Michigan,
fighting a war on two fronts, and still able to round-up and systematically
murder a number of people, who if lined up toe-to-heel, would form a line
that would reach from San Francisco to Chicago. Highly unlikely.

Understand, I'm not apologizing for Nazi atrocities toward the Jews 
or anybody else. What I AM saying is that the Jew has inflated the 
figure wildly for propoganda purposes. In the past fifty years, he 
has gotten so much "milage" out of the holocaust, that he can rest
assured that no matter how naughty he is, nobody would dare try
to eliminate his kind again. Wouldn't that be worth a couple of
million lives? To  do so would allow one to gain world control
with total impunity.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 10:36:59 PST 1995
Article: 11743 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: You've been had! "ON NATIONALISM,  RACISM, AND RELIGION"
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:32:17 -0800
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Ubermensch wrote:
> 
> jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Jeanne Kowalewski) wrote:
> >In article ,
> >atticus@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
> >
> >* In article <30D2808E.3BA3@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> >* wrote:
> >*
> >*   :I can't believe how many of you liberals fell for this! This guy,  F.A.J.
> >*   :White, is putting you all on! He doesn't mean ANY of it. Its a parody of
> >*   :alt.politics.white-power, and all of you fell for it! HOORAY!
> >
> 
> ---
> I am a conservative, and a Nitzchean, and white.
> 
> And I hate all racists and anti-semites with a passion.
> 
> You see, you don't have to be liberal to be non-racist.
> 
> I am as conservative as you can be, and I have dated
> a black woman from Sri Lanka in the past. And I admire
> the Jews more than I admire any other European people.
> 
> Nitzchean

THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM!, but, er what does it have to do with the above post?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 10:37:00 PST 1995
Article: 11749 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: If Whites are so superior...
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:50:41 -0800
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> In article , moo@value.net (Bryan
> Cowan) wrote:
> 
> :In article , potato@mo.net
> :(Frank Weltner) wrote:
> :
> :-> I don't get this anti-Jew thing. After all Einstein was a Jew. A lot of
> :-> scientists are Jews. Many doctors are Jews.
> :->
> :-> What's the problem? These aren't scum. These are successful people.
> :->
> :-> They have given the Western World far more than they have taken from it,
> :-> which is alot more than you can say about the blacks who take, take, take.
> :
> :I don't get the anti Jew thing either. I asked the regulars of
> :soc.culture.jewish for some explanations, go over there for some
> :interesting ideas (there have been a couple of email responses, I can send
> :those to you if you like). But it is true that Jewish immigrants are more
> :likely to be educated and less likely to go on the govt dole than most
> :other immigrants (except some Asians). So far, the connection between Jews
> :in important positions and the cultural degradation rampant in our culture
> :is less than clear to me. It seems that Whites are more responsible for
> :cultural garbage than Jews ever were. (In fact, a Jew-Steven Spielberg-has
> :been responsible for three of the greatest movies ever made: _E.T._,
> :_Jurassic Park_, and _Schindler's List_.)
> 
> I agree. It's probably a German thing, part of the adolation of Hitler or
> something, by some white nationalists. I don't think this helps to produce
> a rational discussion of the real problems of multi-culturalism in the
> face of most societies being purposefully solo-cultural.

This guy, above thinks that Jurassic Park, Shindler's List, and E.T. are
the three greatest movies ever made! All I can say, is this person must
not have seen many movies!

On the Jew thing, I would invite anyone who does not understand about
Jews to read the "Protocols of the Learned Elder's of Zion" by Theodore
Herzl. They are the resolutions adopted by the first World Zionist
Convention in 1892. They explain what the Jew has in store for the world
in vivid detail. The Jew says that they are fake. If you were a general, and
had just launched an all-out attack on the enemy, and then found out that
your battle plan had fallen into enemy hands, and it was too late to call
back your troops, what would you do? TRY TO CONVINCE THE ENEMY THAT
THOSE PLANS ARE FAKE. That's what you'd do. I say read 'em, then make
up your own mind. I'll bet that once you do read them, the fog will lift
>from  thine eyes.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 10:37:01 PST 1995
Article: 11750 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Hey Whites! Want to get minority benefits?
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 00:04:11 -0800
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RL WILLARD wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> 
> >Bryan Cowan wrote:
> >>
> >> If you're sick of the minorities getting all the cool benefits, then come
> >> to San Francisco, where YOU are in the minority! Yes, here you are legally
> >> an *oppressed minority*, so you too can qualify for all those cool
> >> benefits that minorities get! And not only that, you can claim to be
> >> *oppressed*, so you don't have to do anything except sit on your ass and
> >> complain! The only problem is that nobody here speaks English, so you have
> >> to take Spanish and Chinese courses at the local community college. But
> >> other than that, this is the life! I'll see you here soon!
> 
> >While this man's statements about San FranSicko are true, I doubt
> >seriously if there will be many takers. Most whites prefer to work
> >for a living rather than live off of any 'benevolent government'; local,
> >state, or federal. One is born with a welfare mentality, one does not
> >aquire it. Poor is a social disease, wheras being 'broke' is a financial
> >status. The poor will always be poor and they will beget poor. The guy
> >who is 'broke' this week might be flush the next.
> >This is the reason why so many blacks are locked into an endless circle
> >of poverty and degredation. They are poor. Poor in money, poor in spirit,
> >poor in ambition, and poor self-respect, they breed more poor and no amount
> >of government assistance or 'midnight basketball' programs will help them.
> 
> >George Graves
> 
> Perhaps yopu're correct that these band-aid programs won't work, but I
> feel that you're overlooking somw really obvious facts.
> 
> 1) From the beginning of chattel slavery in America, this "poverty
> syndrome" was inculcated and encouraged in Black Americans by White
> Americans. It is an insidious mind game, and you know it.

This must be done by "racial memory' then, because this type of attitude
has not been part of general American thinking since the civil rights
movement, and thus several generations have grow-up sans this
attitude being forced upon them from without. 
> 
> 2) The only way to break that chain has, to date, been to enforce
> equal opportunity so that in a few generations, this cycle could
> dissipate due to increased prospects and positive role models.

I've seen damn little proof that affirmative action has had the result
you say.
> 
> 3) However, it is people who hate out of ignorance that keeps this
> from happening. They put forth surface arguments, and only cheat
> themselves from fostering the growth of other, potentially productive
> and helpful, Americans.

You are being presumptuous. Not everyone hates out of ignorance. Read
some of Frank Weltner's posts, he lives among blacks. He aquired his
opinions in the best laboratory possible: by observing the subjects on
a daily basis, in their native habitat.
> 
> You hurt yourself and our country, and subject your children to
> mis-information, keeping us all that much further from God.

I hurt no-one. I'm just trying to keep the multiculturalists from 
destroying this society with ideas and opinions of which they can 
not even begin to fathom the consequences.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 21 11:58:41 PST 1995
Article: 20492 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: You've been had! "ON NATIONALISM,  RACISM, AND RELIGION"
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 23:32:17 -0800
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Ubermensch wrote:
> 
> jeannek@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Jeanne Kowalewski) wrote:
> >In article ,
> >atticus@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
> >
> >* In article <30D2808E.3BA3@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> >* wrote:
> >*
> >*   :I can't believe how many of you liberals fell for this! This guy,  F.A.J.
> >*   :White, is putting you all on! He doesn't mean ANY of it. Its a parody of
> >*   :alt.politics.white-power, and all of you fell for it! HOORAY!
> >
> 
> ---
> I am a conservative, and a Nitzchean, and white.
> 
> And I hate all racists and anti-semites with a passion.
> 
> You see, you don't have to be liberal to be non-racist.
> 
> I am as conservative as you can be, and I have dated
> a black woman from Sri Lanka in the past. And I admire
> the Jews more than I admire any other European people.
> 
> Nitzchean

THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM!, but, er what does it have to do with the above post?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 22 19:12:19 PST 1995
Article: 12108 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:59:37 -0800
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Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> =

> In article <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> =

> * Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> * >
> * > In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> * > wrote:
> * >
> * > * Stewart King wrote:
> * > * >
> * > * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> =

> [snip]
> =

> * > * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> * > *
> * > *
> * > * George Graves
> * >
> * > What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back t=
he
> * > clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine =
and
> * > the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then =
see
> * > which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'sav=
ages'
> * > would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature=
=2E
> * >
> * > Rev. Jeanne K.
> *
> * I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have group=
s
> * of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part i=
n it,
> * either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate.=

> =

> How about those who have been shut out and have never been allowed to
> participate? Some people have had a boot on their necks from the time the=
y
> were born.

Yes, That's true. Those people just have to work harder. Other groups in
other times have had similar problems. The Irish in the 19th century,
the Italians in the early 20th, and Eastern Europeans somewhat later.
They overcame their problems and removed the boot from their neck
with hard work. They didn't need any giant welfare state to help them
either!
> =

> (Excuse the following example, folks. No offense is intended.) We also
> have millions of people in this country who have not learned to set the
> clocks on their VCRs. Are these people unprepared or unwilling to live in=

> this society, too? George, these people have the machines and the
> instruction manuals, and many have on-screen, step-by-step instructions,
> but they still go through life blinking 12:00 o'clock and whining about
> technology being too complicated.
> =

>  What
> * do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do someth=
ing
> * about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem g=
ets
> * bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can
> * liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd r=
eally
> * like to know!
> =

> Liberal peace and love? Heh! How about some sarcasm, George? One of my
> beloved professors, who was the father of a thirteen year-old daughter,
> made the statement that all teenagers should be put into a barrel and fed=

> through a tube until they turn twenty-one. It would be appealing to have =
a
> way to keep our young people safe and isolated until they are responsible=

> adults, but I don't have any blanket solutions to offer you. Just because=

> we have difficult societal problems to resolve does not mean that we can
> say that any population group is expendible.

Expendible? No, not expendible UNLESS they cannot cut the mustard. The =

answer is sink or swim. Those that sink.... well, that's the price the grou=
p
must pay to remove that "boot" from their necks.
> =

> Unfortunately, the people who often do the most complaining about teenage=

> pregnancy and delinquency are the same ones who vote against bond levies
> for the schools, who decry sex education and health clinics in schools,
> and who classify daycare centers, Head Start and community programs,
> including midnight basketball as "pork." If you do not give young people
> anything positive to do with their time, many will get into trouble. If
> you treat children like garbage and anticipate that they will be failures=

> in life, many will do just that.

Most teenagers don't get into that kind of trouble. Most have interests
and hobbies and schoolwork to keep them occupied. Only those born to
degredation and dispair have that problem, and its chronic!
> =

> Of course, you will find an exceptional child that has excelled despite
> the odds, and then you can hold that child up as an instrument to make th=
e
> children who are not as strong feel like even bigger failures. =


Thus we have OBE (Outcome Based Education) a wonderful new system
by which kids don't get grades (because low grades might harm their =

self-esteem). And nobody ever fails or is held back (same "reasoning").
This will cause us to graduate the largest classes of illiterates in this
nation's history. How can an illiterate populace run a democracy? (hint:
they can't). That's the liberal's idea. Dummy Down the population so that
The NEW WORLD ORDER can take charge. And guess what has no place in this
liberal utiopia? DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM! =


>This is
> everyone's problem, George, and the only way that we can resolve it is by=

> realizing that each child is precious and start treating them as a promis=
e
> for the future and not a curse.

Each child is a promise, but among certain groups it is almost surely a =

promise broken.
> =

> * George Graves
> =

> Rev. Jeanne K.
> Ordained Minister, Universal Life Church
> =

> "There are many humorous things in the world: among them the white man's =
notion
> that he is less savage than the other savages."
> =E3 Mark Twain


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 23 12:11:46 PST 1995
Article: 17427 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Evidence FOR Racial Equality??
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:59:37 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 160
Message-ID: <30DB4669.404D@aimnet.com>
References: <4ahkn9$r1r@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30CDC169.2F1D@aimnet.com> <4amsmb$q67@decaxp.harvard.edu> <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>  <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com> 
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Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> =

> In article <30D27E16.52E1@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> =

> * Jeanne Kowalewski wrote:
> * >
> * > In article <30D13E97.4681@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> * > wrote:
> * >
> * > * Stewart King wrote:
> * > * >
> * > * > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> * > * > : Stewart King wrote:
> * > * > > : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> =

> [snip]
> =

> * > * I answered that. Unsuccessful species, if left to nature, DIE OUT.
> * > *
> * > *
> * > * George Graves
> * >
> * > What are you advocating, George? We could, theoretically, turn back t=
he
> * > clock and shun all modern technology, including advances in medicine =
and
> * > the ability to irrigate land, grow and transport food. We could then =
see
> * > which population groups die out first. My guess is that only the 'sav=
ages'
> * > would survive, because they haven't forgotten how to live with nature=
=2E
> * >
> * > Rev. Jeanne K.
> *
> * I'm not advocating ANYTHING. I am speaking theoretically. We have group=
s
> * of people living in this modern society who don't have an active part i=
n it,
> * either because they aren't prepared, or they don't wish to participate.=

> =

> How about those who have been shut out and have never been allowed to
> participate? Some people have had a boot on their necks from the time the=
y
> were born.

Yes, That's true. Those people just have to work harder. Other groups in
other times have had similar problems. The Irish in the 19th century,
the Italians in the early 20th, and Eastern Europeans somewhat later.
They overcame their problems and removed the boot from their neck
with hard work. They didn't need any giant welfare state to help them
either!
> =

> (Excuse the following example, folks. No offense is intended.) We also
> have millions of people in this country who have not learned to set the
> clocks on their VCRs. Are these people unprepared or unwilling to live in=

> this society, too? George, these people have the machines and the
> instruction manuals, and many have on-screen, step-by-step instructions,
> but they still go through life blinking 12:00 o'clock and whining about
> technology being too complicated.
> =

>  What
> * do we do with them - continue to susidize their indigence, or do someth=
ing
> * about it. The more we subsidize, the more they breed, and the problem g=
ets
> * bigger. Its already almost beyond control. What would you do? How can
> * liberal peace and love solve the problem? You tell me, OK? 'Cause I'd r=
eally
> * like to know!
> =

> Liberal peace and love? Heh! How about some sarcasm, George? One of my
> beloved professors, who was the father of a thirteen year-old daughter,
> made the statement that all teenagers should be put into a barrel and fed=

> through a tube until they turn twenty-one. It would be appealing to have =
a
> way to keep our young people safe and isolated until they are responsible=

> adults, but I don't have any blanket solutions to offer you. Just because=

> we have difficult societal problems to resolve does not mean that we can
> say that any population group is expendible.

Expendible? No, not expendible UNLESS they cannot cut the mustard. The =

answer is sink or swim. Those that sink.... well, that's the price the grou=
p
must pay to remove that "boot" from their necks.
> =

> Unfortunately, the people who often do the most complaining about teenage=

> pregnancy and delinquency are the same ones who vote against bond levies
> for the schools, who decry sex education and health clinics in schools,
> and who classify daycare centers, Head Start and community programs,
> including midnight basketball as "pork." If you do not give young people
> anything positive to do with their time, many will get into trouble. If
> you treat children like garbage and anticipate that they will be failures=

> in life, many will do just that.

Most teenagers don't get into that kind of trouble. Most have interests
and hobbies and schoolwork to keep them occupied. Only those born to
degredation and dispair have that problem, and its chronic!
> =

> Of course, you will find an exceptional child that has excelled despite
> the odds, and then you can hold that child up as an instrument to make th=
e
> children who are not as strong feel like even bigger failures. =


Thus we have OBE (Outcome Based Education) a wonderful new system
by which kids don't get grades (because low grades might harm their =

self-esteem). And nobody ever fails or is held back (same "reasoning").
This will cause us to graduate the largest classes of illiterates in this
nation's history. How can an illiterate populace run a democracy? (hint:
they can't). That's the liberal's idea. Dummy Down the population so that
The NEW WORLD ORDER can take charge. And guess what has no place in this
liberal utiopia? DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM! =


>This is
> everyone's problem, George, and the only way that we can resolve it is by=

> realizing that each child is precious and start treating them as a promis=
e
> for the future and not a curse.

Each child is a promise, but among certain groups it is almost surely a =

promise broken.
> =

> * George Graves
> =

> Rev. Jeanne K.
> Ordained Minister, Universal Life Church
> =

> "There are many humorous things in the world: among them the white man's =
notion
> that he is less savage than the other savages."
> =E3 Mark Twain


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 23 22:37:23 PST 1995
Article: 17495 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!aimnet.com!news2.aimnet.com!usenet
From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It wasn't six million, Mr. Griswold
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:30:45 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <30DB3FA5.4570@aimnet.com>
References: <4aajs1$6jl@news3.cts.com>  <4b7io0$13g@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <30D90862.60CE@aimnet.com> <4bc8n6$3u5@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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To: Ken McVay OBC 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:9102 alt.politics.white-power:12178 alt.discrimination:40112 alt.revisionism:17495

Ken McVay OBC wrote:
> 
> In article <30D90862.60CE@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves  wrote:
> 
> >Ken McVay OBC wrote, to Mr. Griswold:
> 
> >> The correct figure is much closer to 12-million, Mr. Griswold,
> >> but I wouldn't expect you to know that - you're long on talk
> >> and short on reality.
> 
> >Right after the war, the figure was 12 million Jews. Then It dropped to
> >10, then to 8, and finally, it stuck at 6 million. Funny thing though, in a
> >1939 article the New York Times added the census figures together for
> >pre-war Europe (including the Soviet Union) and came up with a total
> >Jewish population for all of Europe at under 4 million.
> 
> Which issue of the Times, Mr. Graves?

I don't know. I read it somewhere and it stuck. What difference does it
make? You want to do the math yourself? Go to the library. Any large
metropolitan library has 20th century census figures for practically 
all countries. Most of Europe did a census between 1934 and 1939. 
Add 'em up yourself.  
> 
> ...and the Nazis came up with 11-million, Mr. Graves, at the
> Wannsee Conference...
> 
> >Needless to say,  that the Nazis killed a lot of Jews. There are some
> >traditionally Jewish countries in Europe in which, today, a Jew is a
> >comparitive rarity, like Poland, for instance. I suspect that the true
> >figure for Jews killed as a DIRECT result of Nazi persecution is no
> >more than a million to a million and a half tops. The rest of them came
> >to the USA, Canada, England, etc.
> 
> Did they, Mr. Graves? Then perhaps you will tell us why the
> _total_ number of immigrants, of all ethnic backgrounds, to
> the United States during the Nazi era was only about 400,000?

Ok. How many to Canada? how many to England? How many to
Palestine? How many to the Eastern Soviet Union, out of German
reach?
> 
> If you "suspect" that "no more than a million" were killed,
> what do you think about David Irving's figure of 4-million?
> What evidence do you offer to support your thesis?

I have no hard evidence, world Jewery has seen to the total acceptance
of their facts and figures. My reason for believing this is based on the 
probability that Germany could physically NOT have killed that many
people in their death camps. (see below). 
 
> >Imagine this if you will: a country no larger than the state of Michigan,
> >fighting a war on two fronts, and still able to round-up and systematically
> >murder a number of people, who if lined up toe-to-heel, would form a line
> >that would reach from San Francisco to Chicago. Highly unlikely.
> 
> Yes, imagine that... Hitler was obsessed with the Jews to the
> point where he put his entire war effort into jeopardy just to
> move them to the killing centres.... or do you also dispute
> all of the Nazi rail records, Mr. Graves?

Yes, I dispute any records which would have me believe that a country
with a population of around 50 million could fight a war on all fronts,
and still exterminate 6 million people. As for Hitler, my studies of the
subject lead to the very strong possibility that Hitler himself was a
JEW. 
> 
> >Understand, I'm not apologizing for Nazi atrocities toward the Jews
> >or anybody else. What I AM saying is that the Jew has inflated the
> >figure wildly for propoganda purposes. In the past fifty years, he
> 
> The Nazis, at Wannsee, also "inflated" the figure, Mr. Graves?
> To what end, do you suppose? 

Same reason - propoganda
> 
> Eichmann "inflated" the figures, Mr. Graves?

Eichmann was proud of what he did. This is evident from his demeanor
at his "trial". He had no remorse. He probably inflated the figures for 
his own self egrandizement. Who knows what an individual's motives are,
especially someone as depraved as Eichmann.
> 
> >has gotten so much "milage" out of the holocaust, that he can rest
> >assured that no matter how naughty he is, nobody would dare try
> >to eliminate his kind again. Wouldn't that be worth a couple of
> >million lives? To  do so would allow one to gain world control
> >with total impunity.
> 
> Control of the world, Mr. Graves? Who is trying to control the
> world?
> 

WORLD ZIONISM. Ever heard of it? Does the name Theodore Herzl ring a
bell, Mr. McVay? I think we both know what we are talking about here.
JEWISH WORLD CONTROL.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 23 22:56:27 PST 1995
Article: 20664 of can.politics
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:21:34 -0800
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ncrccjc@ibm.net wrote:
> 
> George Graves:
> > At least here in the U.S.A. no such laws have been passed at the national
> > level (yet, but there are those who would like to...). Some states and some
> > cities passed anti-hate ordinances and laws, but the would not stand up
> > to the scrutiny of the Supreme Court, because they ARE unconstitutional.
> >
> >
> ncrccjc replies:
> 
> Ah yes my friend but the United States sure has some chilling sanctions in
> their civil law which some could rightly interpret as curtailing speech. For
> example you may recall the civil suit against that vile racist, Tom Metzger,
> by Morris Dees of Klanwatch. Following the murder, by a group of racist
> skinheads, of an Ethiopian student (Mulugeta Seraw), Dees was successful in
> arguing that Metzger's writings and speeches abetted in the Murder. The suit
> was successful to the tune of $12,000,000. Compared to the paltry fine of
> $3,000 levied in the Canadian criminal conviction of antisemite James
> Keegstra, it is quite telling that American law can effectively curtail the
> activities of such bigots when it wants to.
> ncrccjc


Yes, that is true. but we must be careful here not to confuse actionable
(in a civil court, not a criminal one) words with the  Constitutional 
freedom to utter them. 
The Constitution guarantees the freedom of speech. I.E. I can say or write
anything about anyone or any subject that I want to and no government,
federal, state or local can do anything about it. F.I., I can say: President
Clinton is an ASSHOLE. Clinton's supporters can't do anything about it. They
don't like it, but they can legally do nothing. I can also say that I saw Clinton
buggering a little boy, and again, the government can do nothing. In this
country, I have freedom of speech. Now, a seperate issue is that what I 
said about Clinton is irresponsible, and could harm his reputation (if he
had one). He could seek civil damages from me by insisting that I prove
my allegations in a civil court of law. This has nothing whatsoever to
do with freedom of speech. Nes Pas?


George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 23 23:36:32 PST 1995
Article: 12182 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Will WP people be able to evolve ever?(was: Black Africans...)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:03:35 -0800
Organization: Aimnet Information Services
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evil Beavis wrote:
> 
> >   potato@mo.net (Frank Weltner) writes:
> >  In article <30D0F660.506E@scott.net>, evil Beavis  wrote:
> >
> >  :Frank Weltner wrote:
> >  :>
> >  :> 1. Blacks have been on the earth for 3 million years.
> >  :>
> >  :> 2. Blacks have always been rather dull and dumb all that time.
> >  :>
> >  :> 3. Blacks in recent years learned to hate whites and to want to destroy them.
> >  :>
> >  :> 4. Given ten years, blacks will suddenly change, evolve, and be like whites.
> >  :>
> >  :> 5. The earth will provide computers from beach sand.
> >  :>
> >  :> 6. No one will ever have to work.
> >  :
> >  :
> >  :Well, maybe you all should start worrying whether dysfunctional white
> >  :"supremacists" will ever be able to evolve into decent and productive human
> >  :beings. Seems to me that you are a lot more destructive than Black Africans,
> >  :especially considering your insignificant numbers.
> >  :
> >  :eB
> >
> >  Maybe we should cut off your food stamps, Medicaid, welfare, AFDC, Section
> >  8, utility vouchers, and Pell Grants. After all we are unkind
> >  dysfunctional idiots.
> 
> I get no grants or money whatsoever from the U.S. My money comes from home (Sweden).
> 
> eB
Hey Stefan, does your momma know you're boffin' a boon?


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 23 23:36:33 PST 1995
Article: 12186 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:21:34 -0800
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ncrccjc@ibm.net wrote:
> 
> George Graves:
> > At least here in the U.S.A. no such laws have been passed at the national
> > level (yet, but there are those who would like to...). Some states and some
> > cities passed anti-hate ordinances and laws, but the would not stand up
> > to the scrutiny of the Supreme Court, because they ARE unconstitutional.
> >
> >
> ncrccjc replies:
> 
> Ah yes my friend but the United States sure has some chilling sanctions in
> their civil law which some could rightly interpret as curtailing speech. For
> example you may recall the civil suit against that vile racist, Tom Metzger,
> by Morris Dees of Klanwatch. Following the murder, by a group of racist
> skinheads, of an Ethiopian student (Mulugeta Seraw), Dees was successful in
> arguing that Metzger's writings and speeches abetted in the Murder. The suit
> was successful to the tune of $12,000,000. Compared to the paltry fine of
> $3,000 levied in the Canadian criminal conviction of antisemite James
> Keegstra, it is quite telling that American law can effectively curtail the
> activities of such bigots when it wants to.
> ncrccjc


Yes, that is true. but we must be careful here not to confuse actionable
(in a civil court, not a criminal one) words with the  Constitutional 
freedom to utter them. 
The Constitution guarantees the freedom of speech. I.E. I can say or write
anything about anyone or any subject that I want to and no government,
federal, state or local can do anything about it. F.I., I can say: President
Clinton is an ASSHOLE. Clinton's supporters can't do anything about it. They
don't like it, but they can legally do nothing. I can also say that I saw Clinton
buggering a little boy, and again, the government can do nothing. In this
country, I have freedom of speech. Now, a seperate issue is that what I 
said about Clinton is irresponsible, and could harm his reputation (if he
had one). He could seek civil damages from me by insisting that I prove
my allegations in a civil court of law. This has nothing whatsoever to
do with freedom of speech. Nes Pas?


George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 15:37:37 PST 1995
Article: 17512 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It wasn't six million, Mr. Griswold
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 12:16:50 +0000
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Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In message <30DB3FA5.4570@aimnet.com> - George Graves  wri
> tes:
> :>
> :>> If you "suspect" that "no more than a million" were killed,
> :>> what do you think about David Irving's figure of 4-million?
> :>> What evidence do you offer to support your thesis?
> :>
> :>I have no hard evidence, world Jewery has seen to the total acceptance
> :>of their facts and figures. My reason for believing this is based on the
> :>probability that Germany could physically NOT have killed that many
> :>people in their death camps. (see below).
> 
> So, since you have no "hard" evidence, you just invent it on the fly.  And blame
> your stupidity on "world  Jewry".
====================================================================
Dope! I said in my initial post that I "Suspected" (meaning, for all of you
libs too stupid to understand anything but direct, simple English, that it 
was my opinion) that only a million to a million and a half were killed
by DIRECT Nazi action. And why, might I ask, would such an opinion 
qualify me as stupid. What do you base your figures on? What the Jew has
told you? Does that give their figures any more credibility than mine? It
just shows how gullible you liberals are, and how easily you are 
brainwashed. You believe anything the Jew tells you.
==================================================================== 
> 
> :>
> :>> Yes, imagine that... Hitler was obsessed with the Jews to the
> :>> point where he put his entire war effort into jeopardy just to
> :>> move them to the killing centres.... or do you also dispute
> :>> all of the Nazi rail records, Mr. Graves?
> :>
> :>Yes, I dispute any records which would have me believe that a country
> :>with a population of around 50 million could fight a war on all fronts,
> :>and still exterminate 6 million people. As for Hitler, my studies of the
> :>subject lead to the very strong possibility that Hitler himself was a
> :>JEW.
> 
> Germany was a country of around _80_ million people, and was winning the war on
> all fronts when it began the  killing of the Jews in earnest.
====================================================================
Winning the war? Sure they were on a roll, but their defeat had nothing
whatever to do with killing Jews, it had to do with invading the Soviet
Union (bad idea) and the even worse idea of declaring war on the United
States. After that, they hadn't a snowball's chance in hell of winning the
war. If you want to invent history to support your pitiful opinions, you've
got to do better than that!
====================================================================
> 
> :>
> :>WORLD ZIONISM. Ever heard of it? Does the name Theodore Herzl ring a
> :>bell, Mr. McVay? I think we both know what we are talking about here.
> :>JEWISH WORLD CONTROL.
> 
> I should have known this was coming.

====================================================================
Oh, don't be so hard on yourself, McFee. You had no way of knowing what I
was going to say, its only as OBVIOUS AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE!
==================================================================== 
> --
> Gord McFee
> "I'll write no line before its time"

====================================================================
George Graves
====================================================================


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 16:53:05 PST 1995
Article: 17519 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 15:55:04 +0000
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Andy Walton wrote:
> 
> In article <30DD45BB.2990@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
>   :How do you know? are you a mind reader? Or do you, like most liberals,
>   :dismiss out of hand any information which might tend to disprove one
>   :of your dogmas?
> 
> I, for one, dismiss out of hand any "information" for which there exists
> not a shred of evidence, and which contradicts the teachings of history
> and the most elementary understanding of human behavior.
> 
>   :Wait a minute, Ostrov. That's a Jewish name.
> 
> Funny, I would have sworn that it was a slavic name.
> 
> (eagerly awaiting the "Walton is a jewish name" argument)
> 
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>               "You come to see what you want to see
>            You come to see, but you never come to know."
>                         --Kinky Friedman
>      --------------------------------------------------------
>  Andy Walton  *  atticus@mindspring.com  *  finger for e.e. cummings
>               http://www.mindspring.com/~atticus/

No, Ostrov is Jewish. In fact, its owner 'fessed up to it in her response
to me. Walton is English (you know, like William Walton the famous
British 20th century composer, or Isaac Walton the 16th century 
English writer-Isaac, in those days, was a common christian name because
it was biblical.)

There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy. 
People like you just don't want to know about it.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 16:53:06 PST 1995
Article: 17520 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 16:00:43 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> Someone wrote:
> 
>         There is NO Jewish Conspiracy. Period. Get over it. It isn't
>         there, dummies. It's a big lie.
> 
> In article <30DCB6BB.1E60@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         Prove it!
> 
> When Mr. Graves proves that he is not controlled by aliens from outer
> space, we will prove there is no Jewish conspiracy.
> 
>         I want to see you try. I can show you at least a dozen pieces
>         of circumstantial evidence that points to a Jewish conspiracy.
> 
> "At least a dozen pieces of circumstantial evidence..." yet he has
> not even bothered to point a single, solitary shred of evidence,
> circumstantial or otherwise!  Mr. Graves is all hot air, and
> apparently thinks that is he blusters long and hard enough he will
> bluff his way through.
> 
>         Can you show me ONE piece that proves (or even points toward)
>         there not being a Jewish conspiracy? (Hint: "there simply can't
>         be, that's all" is not an argument)
> 
> Hint: "I can point to at least a dozen pieces of circumstantial
> evidence..." is neither an argument, nor evidence!  When Mr. Graves
> provides a shred of evidence backing up his contentions, I will
> provide enough counter-evidence to show him up for the intellectual
> pantywaist that he is.
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 
> There are three who are especially loved by God: he who is forebearing,
> he who is temperate, and he who is courteous.
>         -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

Look, friend. I did not quote any proof because that was not the context
of my post.  I did not intend any of my comments to constitute either 
proof or evidence. That is something that YOU read into it. When I get 
time to organize my thoughts offline I'll post some things, but I won't 
do it online because it will be too long.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 17:03:12 PST 1995
Article: 9123 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 15:49:40 +0000
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Andy Walton wrote:
> 
> In article <30DD4764.4822@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
>   :For sure not all Jews are part of this conspiracy. How the Sanhedran picks
>   :its co-conspirators is not something to which a goyim like me would be
>   :privy.
> 
> Nor, evidently, is elementary hebrew grammar. "Goyim" is a plural.
> 

I'm sure no Jew.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 17:03:13 PST 1995
Article: 9124 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Are racists unable to edit? (was Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 16:06:39 +0000
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Elias Halldor Agustsson wrote:
> =

> In article =
,
> Marty Kelley  wrote:
> =

> # Oh, by the way, Mr. Graves, do you think names are a reliable predictor=

> # of  who's Jewish?  Which of these frequent contributors to
> # alt.revisionism have Jewish-sounding names, and which ones do you think=

> # are gentiles (my apologies in advance for any misspellings)?
> #
> # Marty Kelley                Gentile.  Kelley is Irish, isn't it?
> # Milton Kleim                Jewish, beyond any reasonable doubt!
> # Cecelia Clancy              Gentile
> # Daniel Mittleman            Jewish.
> # Ulrich Roessler             Gentile, as gentile as Heinrich Himmler
> # Jim Collier                 Gentile, very Gentile
> # Reuben Logsdon              Jewish.  As with Milton, this is certainly =
Jewish
> # Sara Schwartz               Hmm ... could be Gentile German.
> # Don Moffitt                 Gentile.   Scottish.
> # Don Van Handel              Van Handel?  Amsterdam Jewish, no doubt.
> =

> Then there are names like Vidkun Salomonsson (who later changed his name
> to Quisling).
> =

> ... and a person whose first name is Elias and whose email address ends i=
n
> .is (Israel, isn't it?) just _has_ to be Jewish.
> =

> --
> =

> =A9 Elias Halldor Agustsson
> =A9 mailto:eha@itn.is         finger eha@itn.is for PGP
> =A9 URL: http://www.itn.is/~eha  (or http://www.nyherji.is/~eha )

I think you are wrong about Kleim. Its German. KleiN is Jewish
Logsdon is Jewish only if its owner or its owner's predecessors were
geshmott Jews.
Van Handle is proably gentile, but it COULD be Jewish (there is some =

evidence that George Frideric Handel, the German-cum-English composer
of the "Messiah" MIGHT have been Jewish).

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 17:03:14 PST 1995
Article: 9125 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Are racists unable to edit? (was Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 16:08:40 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> In article <30DEA5DE.44E0@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         No, names aren't a RELIABLE indicator of Jewishness. They often
>         point in the right direction, however. Kleim, in spite of how it
>         looks, is gentile German. Now, if it were KLEIN with an N,
>         it would be Jewish.
> 
> Unfortunately for Mr. Graves' thesis, Mr. Kleim is not German at all.
> Mr. Kleim is Slavic, I believe he posted that his parents hail from
> The Ukraine.  His name, "Kleim," was probably shortened from some
> longer, more Slavic-sounding name.
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 
> He who blames others is full of blame himself; and the fault he sees in
> others may be seen in himself.
>         -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed

I said that the NAME was German, not the person. I don't anything about
Mr. Kleim except that he doesn't like what the Jews are doing to this old 
world.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Tue Dec 26 17:03:59 PST 1995
Article: 12194 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Aria Defends Generation X (was Racial Equality)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 15:47:14 +0000
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evil Beavis wrote:
> 
> >   George Graves  writes:
> >  aria wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > Well, Mikey, your teacher is a left-wing liberal rat who is filling your
> >  > > young head with enough mush to make sure that the next generation
> is
> >  > > just as screwed-up as as "Generation X".
> >  >
> >  >    step the fuck off this "Generation X" bullshit--the only thing "screwed
> >  > up" about us is that we were born into a nation that doesn't seem to
> have
> >  > its shit together quite yet (and who's fault is that, eh?). trust me: once
> >  > the short-sighted one-dimensional fools like you and mr. griswold have
> >  > died off we'll see to it that this great nation America gets moving again.
> >  >
> >  >    that's if we have anything left after paying for your goddamned social
> >  > security benefits, gramps.
> >  >
> >  >    let's at least confine your rhetoric to the racial agenda; the LAST
> >  > thing you want is to get me started on generational issues, mr. "i was in
> >  > 'nam".
> >  >
> >  >                                                          aria
> >
> >  My you are an idiot aren't you.  Not your fault though. You just
> >  don't know any better. I'll tell you this kiddo, if this
> >  multicultural bullshit continues, there won't be any America
> >  to "get moving again"
> >
> >  You are wrong, I was not in 'Nam.
> >  As for social security. I am a long way from being old
> >  enough to receive it but it should be abolished. I don't need
> >  or want it, you shouldn't be entitled to it when you get old
> >  enough to receive it either.
> >
> >  And Generation X is screwed up. You have no values, no ideas
> >  EXCEPT for those planted in you by your Jewish masters.
> >
> >  George Graves
> >
> >>>>
> Interestin to know that you judge a whole generation as being worthless.
> Good thing the likes of you have contributed so much... You are one
> confused individual.
> 
> eB

I've contributed more than you have Stefan. A couple of patents, several
books, numerous articles. Come back when you have contributed as much.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 08:53:08 PST 1995
Article: 17569 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Are racists unable to edit? (was Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 16:10:40 +0000
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Elias Halldor Agustsson wrote:

> Then there are names like Vidkun Salomonsson (who later changed his name
> to Quisling).
> =

> ... and a person whose first name is Elias and whose email address ends i=
n
> .is (Israel, isn't it?) just _has_ to be Jewish.
> =

> --
> =

> =A9 Elias Halldor Agustsson
> =A9 mailto:eha@itn.is         finger eha@itn.is for PGP
> =A9 URL: http://www.itn.is/~eha  (or http://www.nyherji.is/~eha )

Quisling was a JEW?!!! That explains a lot.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 08:53:10 PST 1995
Article: 17576 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It wasn't six million, Mr. Griswold
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 16:14:32 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> In article <30DD44B2.2D48@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> > ====================================================================
> > Dope! I said in my initial post that I "Suspected" (meaning, for all of you
> > libs too stupid to understand anything but direct, simple English, that it
> > was my opinion) that only a million to a million and a half were killed
> > by DIRECT Nazi action. And why, might I ask, would such an opinion
> > qualify me as stupid. What do you base your figures on? What the Jew has
> > told you? Does that give their figures any more credibility than mine? It
> > just shows how gullible you liberals are, and how easily you are
> > brainwashed. You believe anything the Jew tells you.
> > ====================================================================
> 
> Mr. Graves:
> 
> Please explain this to me. I've been a Jew all my life. So have my
> parents, and grandparents. (Sorry, can't go back farther than that, since
> the rest of the family was annihiliated in Poland.)
> 
> Who is "the Jew"? I know of no *particular* Jew who speaks for all of us.
> Jews have a startling range of opinions -- on almost every subject
> imaginable.
> 
> Pick up a copy of Tikkun. You'll read articles by Zionists, anti-Zionists,
> and every spot on the spectrum.
> 
> So who is this "Jew" who gives out information that brainwashes the
> non-Jews? Can you identify him/her by name?
> 
> By the way, no Jew *I* know is interested in World Domination. You folks
> got yourselves in the mess you're in all by yourselves. Why should WE want
> to have to clean it up?
> 
> Awaiting an answer,
> Sara


That's funny, Sara. A people with a monolithic world view like you Jews
have show a "startling range of opinions". Maybe, but not on anything 
important to your cause.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 17:00:39 PST 1995
Article: 21387 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:33:28 +0000
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Andy Walton wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01AD8.6A74@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
>   :Walton is English (you know, like William Walton the famous
>   :British 20th century composer, or Isaac Walton the 16th century
>   :English writer-Isaac, in those days, was a common christian name because
>   :it was biblical.)
> 
> Isaak. In those days, spelling wasn't particularly well standardized.
> 
>   :There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
>   :People like you just don't want to know about it.
> 
> Which is why people like you don't want to tell me about it, right?
> 
>  
For the fiftieth time today. I WILL POST EVIDENCE BEFORE NEW YEARS
DAY. LOOK FOR A POST CALLED "EVIDENCE OF A WORLD ZIONIST CONSPIRACY',
OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 17:00:40 PST 1995
Article: 21388 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:40:53 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01AD8.6A74@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> > There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
> > People like you just don't want to know about it.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> Then provide it.
> 
> Not "circumstantial" evidence, Mr. Graves. PROOF. You know, facts? Data?
> Evidence?
> 
> If there's so much of it around, I'm sure it will be no problem for you to
> provide it.
> 
> Please provide:
> Names
> Dates
> Agenda
> 
> And be sure to explain how ALL Jews are involved.
> 
> Sara
> 
I'm working on it now, sweetheart.
By the way, the concept of proof is a philosophical one in a case like
this. I can only provide evidence. Each individual will have to decide
if that evidence constitutes proof (that's what juries do, you know).
None of you Jews will accept what I will be saying, and I expect to 
be excoriated for it. After all, you have a vested interest in denying
the existence of such a conspiracy, and are duty bound to deny it in spite
of any evidence or "proof" to the contrary.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 17:00:41 PST 1995
Article: 21389 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:45:54 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> George Graves said:
> 
> There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
> People like you just don't want to know about it.
> 
> Harry Katz said:
> 
> Hint: "I can point to at least a dozen pieces of circumstantial
> evidence..." is neither an argument, nor evidence!  When Mr. Graves
> provides a shred of evidence backing up his contentions, I will provide
> enough counter-evidence to show him up for the intellectual pantywaist
> that he is.
> 
> Mr. Graves responded:
> 
> Look, friend. I did not quote any proof because that was not the context
> of my post.  I did not intend any of my comments to constitute either
> proof or evidence. That is something that YOU read into it. When I get
> time to organize my thoughts offline I'll post some things, but I won't do
> it online because it will be too long.
> 
> 
> Do we BELIEVE any of this garbage? "There's proof. No, I didn't say there
> wasy proof, that's something YOU read into it!"
> 
> Sadly, when Mr. Graves "gets time to organize my thoughts offline" will be
> sometime when the temperature in Hell drops well below freezing.
> 
> Sara

Before Jan. 1, my dear. Is that when hell will freeze over?

By the way, you libs are having a terrible time with the English language
lately.  I didn't say there WASN'T EVIDENCE. I said that what I posted in
that reply wasn't meant to be evidence. Get your stories straight

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 17:00:42 PST 1995
Article: 21390 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
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william c anderson wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : Mr. McFee, If you have spent so much time studying about the Jewish
> : Conspiracy, then how come you deny it? All one has to do is look around
> : them to see the  evidence of same and studying it further can only confirm
> : it's existence.
> 
> This is absolutely true. The other night, for instance, I was unable
> to sleep.  I couldn't figure out why--until I looked under the bed
> and found a filthy, stinking JOO poking me through the box springs
> with one'a them sticks they all carry.  Later in the day, JOOS fixed
> all the traffic lights in such a clever, JOOISH way that I was late
> to work.  Then, JOOS undercooked the eggs in my favorite diner (having
> obtained work there years earlier, disguised as elderly goyish women,
> for this specific purpose--these people are very patient, you know)
> and served me cold coffee.  While I was in the diner, JOOS tampered
> with my speedometer, and I got a ticket on my way back to work.  Then,
> JOOS called a two-hour meeting on telephone courtesy.  The coffee was
> cold again, or course--those JOOS are thorough.  JOOS messed up my
> desk, and I couldn't find the message I was supposed to return.  JOOS
> (disguised as goys again--clever, clever JOOS) were rude to me all
> day long.  JOOS hacked and crashed the mainframe my email runs on--they
> do it about once a week.  JOOS hide my car keys, and JOOS tell women
> not to sleep with me.  JOOS won't let me have any of their
> highly-paid JOOISH jobs.  They keep me from concentrating on anything
> for more than a moment, because they know if I do I'll foil their
> fiendish JOOISH plots with my superior aryan reasoning.  And, of course,
> they dry up my Noble Aryan Sperm with their very presence.  Nasty,
> nasty JOOS.
> 
> That more or less what you mean, Georgie?
> 
> Bill


Not really, Bill, but it is terribly funny, and awfully clever.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 17:00:43 PST 1995
Article: 21392 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:51:47 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01C2B.441D@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         Look, friend.
> 
> "Friend?"  Mr. Graves must have me confused with someone else.
> 
>         I did not quote any proof because that was not the context
>         of my post.  I did not intend any of my comments to constitute
>         either proof or evidence.
> 
> Mr. Graves has posted half a dozen articles claiming to have such
> proof, but in not one of these articles did the "context" actually
> call for him to present a single, solitary shred of it!
> 
>         That is something that YOU read into it.
> 
> I read nothing into Mr. Graves' posts.  On the contrary, I was the
> one who pointed out what Mr. Graves tediously repeats above, that his
> claims do not constitute proof or evidence.  The only bit of
> information that he confirmed was that he did it intentionally.
> 
>         When I get time to organize my thoughts offline I'll post some
>         things, but I won't do it online because it will be too long.
> 
> If Mr. Graves ever does manage to "organize his thoughts" and come up
> with specific evidence for his "Jewish conspiracy" then that will be
> the appropriate time for him to make his claims.  Until then,
> whenever that happy day may come, he can apologize for his fantastic,
> vicious, and baseless accusations.
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 


I don't have to apologize for anything Katz, because we both know I am
right.

The 'evidence' you keep screaming about will be posted here, by me, on or 
before New Years day.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 17:00:44 PST 1995
Article: 21393 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Are racists unable to edit? (was Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:58:50 +0000
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Elias Halldor Agustsson wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01E80.5C16@aimnet.com>, gmgraves@aimnet.com sez...
> >
> >Elias Halldor Agustsson wrote:
> >
> >> Then there are names like Vidkun Salomonsson (who later changed his name
> >> to Quisling).
> >> =
> >
> >> ... and a person whose first name is Elias and whose email address ends i=
> >n
> >> .is (Israel, isn't it?) just _has_ to be Jewish.
> >> =
> >
> 
> >Quisling was a JEW?!!! That explains a lot.
> >
> 
> No, he wasn't.  And sorry, my mistake, his original last name was not
> Salomonsson, it was Abrahamsson.  The prevalence of Biblical first names in
> Protestant Scandinavia (and subsequent patronymics based on them) has caused
> many a misunderstanding.
> 
> "That explains a lot"??  Perhaps to a racist, particularily one that is so
> short-sighted that a person's name is more important to form an opinion of him
> than anything he says, thinks or does.
> 
> Elias

Salmonsson, Abrahamsson, they're both Jewish, so what's the difference?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:13 PST 1995
Article: 17635 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Movin' jews! (was: It sure as hell WASN'T!)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:54:20 +0000
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william c anderson wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : Actually, Frank, If you had been a citizen of Germany in the 1930's you
> : would NOT have wanted or tried to kill Hitler. You would have been an
> : ardant Nazi, just like everybody else. You are applying your late 20th
> : century experiences and ideas to an early 20th century movement.
> : If we could choose to be born in another time, we would grow up with
> : the ideas and mores of that time.
> 
> And yet, there were Germans who opposed Hitler--some at the cost of
> their lives.
> 
> Bill

Very Few.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:14 PST 1995
Article: 17645 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Still no answer from Graves or Griswold
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:10:34 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> In article , bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Les Griswold) wrote:
> 
> > Sara aka Perrrfect (schwartz@infinet.com) writes:
> > > Please explain this to me. I've been a Jew all my life. So have my
> > > parents, and grandparents. (Sorry, can't go back farther than that, since
> > > the rest of the family was annihiliated in Poland.)
> > >
> > > Who is "the Jew"? I know of no *particular* Jew who speaks for all of us.
> > > Jews have a startling range of opinions -- on almost every subject
> > > imaginable.
> >
> > Sure, Sara.  Except on the ones that matter.
> 
> WHICH ones are those, Les?
> 
> SPECIFICALLY. WHICH opinions do we ALL -- to a person -- share? And then
> please tell me HOW you know this.
> >
> > > Pick up a copy of Tikkun. You'll read articles by Zionists, anti-Zionists,
> > > and every spot on the spectrum.
> >
> > And...?  Tell me, which jews like Hitler?
> 
> Well, you've probably found the ONE thing Jews agree on. But of course,
> just because he was a rabid anti-Semite, responsible for the deaths of
> MILLIONS of Jews, doesn't mean Jews should DISLIKE him, right?
> 
> Yes, Jews hate Hitler. But how you've managed to extrapolate ONE fact to
> mean there's an International Jewish Conspiracy is beyond any san person's
> comprehension.
> >
> > > So who is this "Jew" who gives out information that brainwashes the
> > > non-Jews? Can you identify him/her by name?
> > >
> > > By the way, no Jew *I* know is interested in World Domination. You folks
> > > got yourselves in the mess you're in all by yourselves. Why should WE want
> > > to have to clean it up?
> >
> > Jews don't want to clean anything up.  They like the mess we're in just
> > fine.  It allows them to harness us, as they promise relief from the
> > stress of day-to-day living.
> 
> AH, but you STILL have not answered the question, Les. WHO is the "Jew"
> who gives out information and brainwashes people?
> 
> Who is the "Jew" who defines the agenda that ALL the rest of us Jews follow?
> 
> What is this person's name?
> 
> And what is the agenda? And what is your proof?
> 
> Silence, of course, because your position is indefensible. And always will be.
> 
> SAra
> 
> --
> "Who CARES if Hitler killed six million jews, or sixty million?  He
> identified the problem facing post-WWI Germany, and took decisive action to protect HIS people."
>     The Gospel According to Les Griswold

Sara, Sara, Sara! Now you know as well as I do that "The Jew" is not one
person. One person does not, a conspiracy, make. Its the Jewish race, the 
Jewish culture, citizens of the world, with no allegance to any country,
any creed except their own. From their positions of authority in this 
culture, they control almost everything; from the motion picture industry, 
to almost all of the newspapers in the US, to all of the broadcasting
networks, to positions of power and influence in the government. They
shape public opinion, and influence public policy. They do this, Sara, in
accordance with their master plan for world domination, the "Protocols
of the Learned Elders of Zion". I have read them. I know that they are real.
Even though you Jews protest to the reverberant hills that they are fake.
Sure, If I had a plan for world domination, and it fell into enemy hands, I'd
do everything in my power to discredit it too. Doesn't alter the fact that
everything outlined in them has come to pass, and that the "Protocols" read
like the history of the twentieth century (even though they were penned
in the 19th). More to come. Look for a long post from me under the title
" Evidence of the Zionist Conspiracy". I will post it, hopefully before the 
weekend, but no later than New Years day. Remain patient!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:15 PST 1995
Article: 17646 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It wasn't six million, Mr. Griswold
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:13:16 +0000
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william c anderson wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : That's funny, Sara. A people with a monolithic world view like you Jews
> : have show a "startling range of opinions". Maybe, but not on anything
> : important to your cause.
> 
> How odd.  You'd think, if there was a single JOOISH cause, that the
> state if Israel would be central to it; and yet, I've met Jews who
> support the expulsion of the Palestinians and the annexation of the
> territories, Jews who support the current peace process, Jews who want
> a single, multiethnic secular state, Jews who oppose the existence of
> Israel for leftist political reasons and Jews who oppose it for rightist
> religious reasons.
> 
> I guess they're all just trying to fool me, huh, George?  Clever,
> clever JOOS.
> 
> Bill

You got it Bill! Israel is a front. Its there to take the worlds mind off 
of the conspiracy. "Here, watch my right hand. But you don't see my left
hand, the one with the knife in it"

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:16 PST 1995
Article: 17647 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It wasn't six million, Mr. Griswold
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:17:22 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01F68.6C82@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         That's funny,... A people with a monolithic world view like
>         you Jews have show a "startling range of opinions".
> 
> If ignorance is bliss then Mr. Graves is hysterical.  He can only
> believe in a "monolithic Jewish world view" by being totally ignorant
> of Jewish history and culture for the past several thousand years.
> 
> On the other hand, Mr. Graves, by asserting that Jews do not exhibit
> any individuality or deviate from a single norm, shows that his view
> of Jews is monolithic.  And since Jews occupy a central place in his
> philosophy, it is Mr. Graves' world view that is monolithic!  In
> other words, this is another case of psychological projection.
> 
>         Maybe, but not on anything important to your cause.
> 
> Spoken with the kind of confidence that only true ignorance can
> produce.  Since Mr. Graves is having immense difficulty sortin gout
> his thoughts so that he can present "evidence" of a "Jewish
> conspiracy" there is not much point asking him for evidence that
> Jews do indeed have a "monolithic world view!"  (Hint:  As Mr.
> Graves himself pointed out, "Because I say so!" is not evidence.)
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 
> If thy friends agree in calling thee an ass, go and get a halter
> around thee.
>         -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.


I have no trouble sorting out my thoughts, Katz. I just have trouble finding
the time. I will post evidence before New Years day. Look for a post
entitled "Evidence of the World Zionist Conspiracy", or words to that effect.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:19 PST 1995
Article: 17666 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:33:28 +0000
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Andy Walton wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01AD8.6A74@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
>   :Walton is English (you know, like William Walton the famous
>   :British 20th century composer, or Isaac Walton the 16th century
>   :English writer-Isaac, in those days, was a common christian name because
>   :it was biblical.)
> 
> Isaak. In those days, spelling wasn't particularly well standardized.
> 
>   :There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
>   :People like you just don't want to know about it.
> 
> Which is why people like you don't want to tell me about it, right?
> 
>  
For the fiftieth time today. I WILL POST EVIDENCE BEFORE NEW YEARS
DAY. LOOK FOR A POST CALLED "EVIDENCE OF A WORLD ZIONIST CONSPIRACY',
OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:20 PST 1995
Article: 17667 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:40:53 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01AD8.6A74@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> > There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
> > People like you just don't want to know about it.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> Then provide it.
> 
> Not "circumstantial" evidence, Mr. Graves. PROOF. You know, facts? Data?
> Evidence?
> 
> If there's so much of it around, I'm sure it will be no problem for you to
> provide it.
> 
> Please provide:
> Names
> Dates
> Agenda
> 
> And be sure to explain how ALL Jews are involved.
> 
> Sara
> 
I'm working on it now, sweetheart.
By the way, the concept of proof is a philosophical one in a case like
this. I can only provide evidence. Each individual will have to decide
if that evidence constitutes proof (that's what juries do, you know).
None of you Jews will accept what I will be saying, and I expect to 
be excoriated for it. After all, you have a vested interest in denying
the existence of such a conspiracy, and are duty bound to deny it in spite
of any evidence or "proof" to the contrary.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:21 PST 1995
Article: 17668 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:45:54 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> George Graves said:
> 
> There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
> People like you just don't want to know about it.
> 
> Harry Katz said:
> 
> Hint: "I can point to at least a dozen pieces of circumstantial
> evidence..." is neither an argument, nor evidence!  When Mr. Graves
> provides a shred of evidence backing up his contentions, I will provide
> enough counter-evidence to show him up for the intellectual pantywaist
> that he is.
> 
> Mr. Graves responded:
> 
> Look, friend. I did not quote any proof because that was not the context
> of my post.  I did not intend any of my comments to constitute either
> proof or evidence. That is something that YOU read into it. When I get
> time to organize my thoughts offline I'll post some things, but I won't do
> it online because it will be too long.
> 
> 
> Do we BELIEVE any of this garbage? "There's proof. No, I didn't say there
> wasy proof, that's something YOU read into it!"
> 
> Sadly, when Mr. Graves "gets time to organize my thoughts offline" will be
> sometime when the temperature in Hell drops well below freezing.
> 
> Sara

Before Jan. 1, my dear. Is that when hell will freeze over?

By the way, you libs are having a terrible time with the English language
lately.  I didn't say there WASN'T EVIDENCE. I said that what I posted in
that reply wasn't meant to be evidence. Get your stories straight

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:22 PST 1995
Article: 17669 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:48:19 +0000
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william c anderson wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> 
> : Mr. McFee, If you have spent so much time studying about the Jewish
> : Conspiracy, then how come you deny it? All one has to do is look around
> : them to see the  evidence of same and studying it further can only confirm
> : it's existence.
> 
> This is absolutely true. The other night, for instance, I was unable
> to sleep.  I couldn't figure out why--until I looked under the bed
> and found a filthy, stinking JOO poking me through the box springs
> with one'a them sticks they all carry.  Later in the day, JOOS fixed
> all the traffic lights in such a clever, JOOISH way that I was late
> to work.  Then, JOOS undercooked the eggs in my favorite diner (having
> obtained work there years earlier, disguised as elderly goyish women,
> for this specific purpose--these people are very patient, you know)
> and served me cold coffee.  While I was in the diner, JOOS tampered
> with my speedometer, and I got a ticket on my way back to work.  Then,
> JOOS called a two-hour meeting on telephone courtesy.  The coffee was
> cold again, or course--those JOOS are thorough.  JOOS messed up my
> desk, and I couldn't find the message I was supposed to return.  JOOS
> (disguised as goys again--clever, clever JOOS) were rude to me all
> day long.  JOOS hacked and crashed the mainframe my email runs on--they
> do it about once a week.  JOOS hide my car keys, and JOOS tell women
> not to sleep with me.  JOOS won't let me have any of their
> highly-paid JOOISH jobs.  They keep me from concentrating on anything
> for more than a moment, because they know if I do I'll foil their
> fiendish JOOISH plots with my superior aryan reasoning.  And, of course,
> they dry up my Noble Aryan Sperm with their very presence.  Nasty,
> nasty JOOS.
> 
> That more or less what you mean, Georgie?
> 
> Bill


Not really, Bill, but it is terribly funny, and awfully clever.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:23 PST 1995
Article: 17670 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:51:47 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01C2B.441D@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         Look, friend.
> 
> "Friend?"  Mr. Graves must have me confused with someone else.
> 
>         I did not quote any proof because that was not the context
>         of my post.  I did not intend any of my comments to constitute
>         either proof or evidence.
> 
> Mr. Graves has posted half a dozen articles claiming to have such
> proof, but in not one of these articles did the "context" actually
> call for him to present a single, solitary shred of it!
> 
>         That is something that YOU read into it.
> 
> I read nothing into Mr. Graves' posts.  On the contrary, I was the
> one who pointed out what Mr. Graves tediously repeats above, that his
> claims do not constitute proof or evidence.  The only bit of
> information that he confirmed was that he did it intentionally.
> 
>         When I get time to organize my thoughts offline I'll post some
>         things, but I won't do it online because it will be too long.
> 
> If Mr. Graves ever does manage to "organize his thoughts" and come up
> with specific evidence for his "Jewish conspiracy" then that will be
> the appropriate time for him to make his claims.  Until then,
> whenever that happy day may come, he can apologize for his fantastic,
> vicious, and baseless accusations.
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 


I don't have to apologize for anything Katz, because we both know I am
right.

The 'evidence' you keep screaming about will be posted here, by me, on or 
before New Years day.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 19:49:24 PST 1995
Article: 17672 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Are racists unable to edit? (was Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:58:50 +0000
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Elias Halldor Agustsson wrote:
> 
> In article <30E01E80.5C16@aimnet.com>, gmgraves@aimnet.com sez...
> >
> >Elias Halldor Agustsson wrote:
> >
> >> Then there are names like Vidkun Salomonsson (who later changed his name
> >> to Quisling).
> >> =
> >
> >> ... and a person whose first name is Elias and whose email address ends i=
> >n
> >> .is (Israel, isn't it?) just _has_ to be Jewish.
> >> =
> >
> 
> >Quisling was a JEW?!!! That explains a lot.
> >
> 
> No, he wasn't.  And sorry, my mistake, his original last name was not
> Salomonsson, it was Abrahamsson.  The prevalence of Biblical first names in
> Protestant Scandinavia (and subsequent patronymics based on them) has caused
> many a misunderstanding.
> 
> "That explains a lot"??  Perhaps to a racist, particularily one that is so
> short-sighted that a person's name is more important to form an opinion of him
> than anything he says, thinks or does.
> 
> Elias

Salmonsson, Abrahamsson, they're both Jewish, so what's the difference?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 21:34:34 PST 1995
Article: 12326 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: whats wrong with jews?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:23:21 +0000
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Caesar wrote:
> 
> In article <30E0666C.5E9C@aimnet.com> gmgraves@aimnet.com "George Graves" writes:
> 
> > Kyle Moline wrote:
> > >
> > > Poor, pathetic George Graves, he is so envious that he was not born a Jew.
> > > Why else would he complain about jews so much?  The genetic inferiority of
> > > Aryans must really chaff his ego.  The intellectual and genetic superiority of> > the Jewish people is obviously a truth he cannot handle.  Who cares thoug
> > > Here it is Geogie: on the IQ scale, Aryans consistantly score aproximately 70
> > > points below Jews.
> >
> > If I were a Jew, My IQ would drop by 30 points.
> 
> If that's so, how come Einstein the theoretical physicist was a Jew
> then?
===================================================================
That's the most idiotic piece of reasoning I've ever seen. I didn't say Jews
weren't smart, I responded to another jerk named Molin who said that
Aryans had IQs 70 points below the average Jew. I simply retorted that 
I couldn't take the drop in IQ that I would have to endure to become an 
average Jew. 
Understand what you read before you try to post smartass flames!

George Graves
====================================================================
> 
> Your racial supremecy crap makes no sense.
> 
> > And for the record, why
> > would I want to be a member of a race which is simply the world's
> > criminals?
> >
> 
> --
> Caesar


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 21:34:35 PST 1995
Article: 12328 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: whats wrong with jews?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:31:19 +0000
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Rob Carscadden wrote:
> 
> George Graves  wrote:
> >Kyle Moline wrote:
> >>
> >> Poor, pathetic George Graves, he is so envious that he was not born a Jew.
> >> Why else would he complain about jews so much?  The genetic inferiority of
> >> Aryans must really chaff his ego.  The intellectual and genetic superiority of
> >> the Jewish people is obviously a truth he cannot handle.  Who cares though?
> >> Here it is Geogie: on the IQ scale, Aryans consistantly score aproximately 70
> >> points below Jews.
> >
> >If I were a Jew, My IQ would drop by 30 points. And for the record, why
> >would I want to be a member of a race which is simply the world's
> >criminals?
> >
> >George Graves
> 
> Jews are so stupid that they've got this whole conspiracy working against
> the smarter white people. OK. They have ZOG and control the banking world
> and the Entertainment world. OK. They pull all the strings in the world
> but they're stupid. OK.
> 
> I guess the white power buttheads can have their cake an deat it too.
> (unless the cake is part of the conspiracy)
> 
> How is this possible? If the white power knuckleheads are so smart why
> are the oppressed by the jews, which are dumber. hmmmmmmmm...
> 
> Damn thinking hurts! don't it boys?


What's the matter with you, don't you understand English either? Molin
said: "Aryans consistantly score aproximately 70 points below Jews."
To which I retorted: "If I were a Jew, My IQ would drop by 30 points."

Now, where in that exchange did I say anything which intimated that Jews
were dumb? I DID insinuate that the average Jew, while scoring higher in
IQ tests than the average non-Jew, is still 30 points lower in IQ than me,
but I am talking about ME not the entire Aryan Race! 

Your entire "clever little tirade" is therefore meaningless because you
can't understand what you read!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 21:34:35 PST 1995
Article: 12348 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: What is wrong with Jews?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:04:26 +0000
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Fragano Ledgister wrote:
> 
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> : Fragano Ledgister wrote:
> : >
> : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) wrote:
> : > : Scott A. Reap wrote:
> : >
> : > : Proven by whom? The Jews?
> : >
> : > Actually, by an Anglo-Irish journalist named Charles Graves (brother
> : > of the poet Robert) related to the German historian Leopold von
> : > Ranke.  Not a relative of yours, I presume?
> : >
> 
> : yes, unfortunately these leftos are my distant relatives.
> : George Graves
> 
> 'Leftos'? The Graveses? My, my. Have you developed a new meaning for
> 'left'?
> 
> Now, was Charles Graves lying when he showed that the _Protocol of
> the Learned Elders of Zion_ was a forgery? Was he really Jewish?

I've read his "proof" and it isn't. Its his opinion. There is no real
provenance for the 'Protocols'. Just because some of the things in the 
"Protocols" are similar to some 18th century French revolutionary
writings, doesn't mean that Theodore Herzl didn't 'borrow' them.
Good ideas (good in that they help attain the objective) are never out
of style.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 21:34:36 PST 1995
Article: 12349 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 13:09:44 +0000
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ncrccjc@ibm.net wrote:
> 
> > >
> > > ncrccjc responds;
> > >
> > > The bottom line my friend is that Hate speech is the seed by
> > > which democracies have ultimately been destroyed. Evil words
> > > ultimately lead to evil action. Just ask Timothy MacVay.
> > > ncrccjc
> >
> > George Graves responds:
> > Actually, just the opposite is true. Hate speech, or any other kind of
> > speech cannot be curtailed in a democracy without undermining the
> > principles upon which that democracy is based. There must be room
> > for the free expression of all opinions, or there is no freedom at all.
> > A government which can tell you that you cannot express an opinion
> > based on hatred today, can prevent you from expressing a critical
> > opinion of that same government tomorrow.
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> ncrccjc responds:
> Canada is a vibrant and thriving democracy. Our anti-hate laws were carefully
> crafted to ensure the fine balance between free speech and protection for
> minorities. Even, per capita, Canada has much fewer hate crimes than the
> United States. As well, our law has been used judiciously and fairly. Any
> country that values pluralism and its dynamic multicultural communities will
> understand the need to ensure proper protection from those whose sole aim it
> is to destroy all that Canada has become. Interestingly, the very few
> "leaders" of Canada's hate movements are today either in jail or facing
> criminal charges, not as a result of our anti-hate laws, but due to other
> criminal behavior ranging from assault to mischief. Once a thug always a thug
> I guess.
> ncrccjc

We are going to have to just "agree to disagree" on this one, I'm afraid.
I just don't buy the idea that a law which curtails free speech can be
administered benevolently. Rights are either guaranteed by law, or they
aren't rights, they're priveleges. Priveleges, which, I might add, can be
revoked at any time without warning or recourse.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Wed Dec 27 23:25:11 PST 1995
Article: 21465 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:21:29 +0000
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Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In message <30E01AD8.6A74@aimnet.com> - George Graves  wri
> tes:
> :>
> :>>
> :>>   :Wait a minute, Ostrov. That's a Jewish name.
> :>>
> :>> Funny, I would have sworn that it was a slavic name.
> :>>
> :>
> :>No, Ostrov is Jewish. In fact, its owner 'fessed up to it in her response
> :>to me. Walton is English (you know, like William Walton the famous
> :>British 20th century composer, or Isaac Walton the 16th century
> :>English writer-Isaac, in those days, was a common christian name because
> :>it was biblical.)
> 
> I know a woman named Smith who converted to Judaism.  Does that make Smith a
> Jewish name, Mr. Graves?  I  also grew up with a person named Graves who was
> Jewish.  Does that make Graves a Jewish name?

====================================================================
Of course it doesn't, Don't be ridiculous. Stop grasping at straws.
You know as well as I that names pass via the male side of the family. 
Lotsa Jews go geshmott. This "Graves" was, in all likelyhood, originally
Gravitz, most Jewish Graves' were.
====================================================================
> 
> :>There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
> :>People like you just don't want to know about it.
> 
> Perhaps you could humour us, and post a little proof of this conspiracy.
===================================================================
I Just did

George Graves
===================================================================

> Gord McFee
> "I'll write no line before its time"


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:26:11 PST 1995
Article: 17718 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:21:29 +0000
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Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In message <30E01AD8.6A74@aimnet.com> - George Graves  wri
> tes:
> :>
> :>>
> :>>   :Wait a minute, Ostrov. That's a Jewish name.
> :>>
> :>> Funny, I would have sworn that it was a slavic name.
> :>>
> :>
> :>No, Ostrov is Jewish. In fact, its owner 'fessed up to it in her response
> :>to me. Walton is English (you know, like William Walton the famous
> :>British 20th century composer, or Isaac Walton the 16th century
> :>English writer-Isaac, in those days, was a common christian name because
> :>it was biblical.)
> 
> I know a woman named Smith who converted to Judaism.  Does that make Smith a
> Jewish name, Mr. Graves?  I  also grew up with a person named Graves who was
> Jewish.  Does that make Graves a Jewish name?

====================================================================
Of course it doesn't, Don't be ridiculous. Stop grasping at straws.
You know as well as I that names pass via the male side of the family. 
Lotsa Jews go geshmott. This "Graves" was, in all likelyhood, originally
Gravitz, most Jewish Graves' were.
====================================================================
> 
> :>There is quite a bit of proof to support a theory of a Jewish Conspiracy.
> :>People like you just don't want to know about it.
> 
> Perhaps you could humour us, and post a little proof of this conspiracy.
===================================================================
I Just did

George Graves
===================================================================

> Gord McFee
> "I'll write no line before its time"


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:26:13 PST 1995
Article: 17719 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Movin' jews! (was: It sure as hell WASN'T!)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:28:55 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> william c anderson wrote:
> 
>         And yet, there were Germans who opposed Hitler--some at the
>         cost of their lives.
> 
> In article <30E133EC.5337@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         Very Few.
> 
> The Grand Poobah has spoken!  If you don't believe it, just ask him!
> 
> Actually, there were very many German dissenters.  They filled the
> very first concentration camps built by the Nazis.
> 
> But notice that Mr. Graves glosses over the fact that peaceful
> political dissent in Nazi Germany meant death.  Seems that a little
> brutality is all right in politics, according to MR. Graves, as long
> as the victims were "very few" in number!
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 
> The learned man should judge himself according to his own teaching,
> and not do anything that he has forbidden others to do.
>         -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

I am NOT a lover of nor a supporter of Hitler. Just because Both Hitler and 
I share a couple of views doesn't erase my loathing of what he did.
My post to Mr. Weltner, which you jumped in upon making assumptions right
and left, was in regard to the fact that we are all a product of our time.
And contrary to his assumption that he would have killed Hitler had he 
been a German Citizen at that time, I merely pointed out that the probability
is he would have gone along with his peers.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:26:13 PST 1995
Article: 17720 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Still no answer from Graves or Griswold
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:39:08 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> In article <30E137BA.8D9@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         Now you know as well as I do that "The Jew" is not one person.
>         One person does not, a conspiracy, make.
> 
> But the reason that Mr. Graves uses phrases like "The Jew" is to
> imply that all Jews act as if we were indeed one person!
> 
>         Its the Jewish race, the Jewish culture, citizens of the world,
>         with no allegance to any country, any creed except their own.
> 
> One of the basic principles of Jewish culture, so basic that it is
> expounded in the Talmud, is that the law of the land in which a Jew
> resides is the law for that Jew as well.  In other words, Jewish
> culture contradicts Mr. Graves' slander that Jews have "no allegiance
> to any country!"
> 
>         From their positions of authority in this culture, they control
>         almost everything; from the motion picture industry, to almost
>         all of the newspapers in the US, to all of the broadcasting
>         networks, to positions of power and influence in the government.
> 
> We have heard all of these tired, old lies before.  What we have not
> heard, and what Mr. Graves has not provided, is any evidence to
> support these vicious slanders.
> 
>         They shape public opinion, and influence public policy.
> 
> Which, as citizens, is not only their right, but their duty!
> 
>         They do this, Sara, in accordance with their master plan for
>         world domination, the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion".
> 
> Once again, a tired, old lie!
> 
>         I have read them. I know that they are real.
> 
> Mr. Graves "knows that they are real" from a tarot reading, or
> perhaps it was tea leaves!  He is certainly unqualified to speak to
> the actual evidence that the so-called "Protocols" are a forgery.
> 
>         Even though you Jews protest to the reverberant hills that
>         they are fake.
> 
> Once again, when Mr. Graves is confronted with an uncomfortable fact,
> he blames it on "Jewish propaganda!"  That the so-called "Protocols"
> are a forgery has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt mainly by
> non-Jewish researchers.
> 
>         Sure, If I had a plan for world domination, and it fell into
>         enemy hands, I'd do everything in my power to discredit it too.
> 
> Well, if I had "a plan for world domination" the first thing I would
> do is accuse someone else of plotting world domination.  That way,
> attention would be turned away from me, and I would earn some degree
> of public trust.  That is why the Nazis published the so-called
> "Protocols" and promoted the hell out of them -- so, they could carry
> out their own plans for world domination more easily while everyone
> was distracted by attacks on the Jews.
> 
> By the way, by Mr. Graves' "logic" we must conclude that he does
> indeed have a plan for world domination, because he is hiding it from
> the rest of us!  If he had no such plan, he would not be hiding it!
> 
>         Doesn't alter the fact that everything outlined in them has come
>         to pass,...
> 
> I have also heard people who believe in astrology claim that their
> horoscope has also come to pass!  The reason in both cases is the
> same.  The "predictions" are so general and amorphous that they can
> be applied to almost any event.
> 
> I have read the so-called "Protocols" and it contains reams of
> "predictions" that run like this: "We will cause political turmoil
> and revolution in various parts of the world..."  Naturally,
> political turmoil is occuring somewhere in the world at any given
> time of the day or year, but this is taken by anti-Semites as proof
> positive that the so-called "Protocols" are genuine!
> 
> It might as well say, "We will cause floods, hurricanes, and
> earthquakes in various parts of the world..." and the anti-Semites
> would maintain that Jews are capable of manipulating nature.
> 
>         ...and that the "Protocols" read like the history of the
>         twentieth century (even though they were penned in the 19th).
> 
> To paraphrase what Mr. Graves wrote above, "If I had a plan for world
> domination, and it fell into enemy hands, I'd do everything in my power
> to discredit it too..." and I would change the plan!  Here we have a
> plan -- that Mr. Graves is absolutely certain is true! -- and it fell
> into "enemy hands" almost one hundred years ago, yet not one single,
> solitary detail of the plan has been changed or adjusted to confound
> the enemy or advance the cause!
> 
>         More to come.
> 
> And if it is anything like this post it is not worth waiting for!
> 
>         Look for a long post from me under the title " Evidence of the
>         Zionist Conspiracy". I will post it, hopefully before the
>         weekend, but no later than New Years day. Remain patient!
> 
> Mr. Graves has slandered me, my family, and my community, but he
> wants us to show him some patience!  He is the one who needed to
> exercise patience and refrain from posting his malicious slanders
> until he had some of the "evidence" he claims will support his
> slander!  The only thing that can be said in his defense is that he
> is an ignoramus who does not know any better.
> 
> --
> Harry Katz
> 

Katz, like most of your kind, you're an arrogant ass. I haven't slandered
anybody. I don't know you, I don't know your family, and your community
doesn't give a fuck about you. Its just like a Jew, so filled with self 
importance, that he dares to come onto NGs about white-supremecy, 
discrimination, and revisionism, and then complain about being slandered 
when people who are not even addressing him, say something he doesn't 
like. What Chutzpah! Its called leading with one's chin, and Katz deserves 
every bit he gets.
 
Now I will address you.
If you don't want to hear about anti-semitism, I suggest you go to some
NG where the topic isn't discussed!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:26:14 PST 1995
Article: 17721 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Movin' jews! (was: It sure as hell WASN'T!)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:41:39 +0000
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Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> In article <30E06459.66D0@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> > Actually, Frank, If you had been a citizen of Germany in the 1930's you
> > would NOT have wanted or tried to kill Hitler. You would have been an
> > ardant Nazi, just like everybody else. You are applying your late 20th
> > century experiences and ideas to an early 20th century movement.
> > If we could choose to be born in another time, we would grow up with
> > the ideas and mores of that time.
> 
> Fredrich Reck-Malleczewen wrote, in _Dairy of a Man in Despair_, on the
> idea of shooting Hitler when seeing him in a Munich restaurant in 1932
> without his bodyguards: "A raw-vegetable Genghis Kahn...If I had had an
> inkling of the role this piece of filth was to play, and the years of
> suffering he was to make us endure, I would have done it without a second
> thought. But I took him for a character out of a comic strip, and did not
> shoot."
> 
> What a pity.
> 
> Mark

Agreed. Would have saved the world a lot of grief, in more ways than we
can possibly imagine. Just goes to prove, you never can tell.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:26:15 PST 1995
Article: 17722 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Movin' jews! (was: It sure as hell WASN'T!)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:44:55 +0000
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Harry Katz wrote:
> 
> In article <30E06459.66D0@aimnet.com>,
> George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> 
>         Actually, Frank, If you had been a citizen of Germany in
>         the 1930's you would NOT have wanted or tried to kill Hitler.
>         You would have been an ardant Nazi, just like everybody else.
> 
> Or he would have been sent to a concentration camp along with the
> thousands of Germans who actively opposed Hitler, or seemed to Hitler
> to be a threat.
> 
> By the way, how many German citizens of Jewish descent were ardent
> Nazis?  Mr. Graves would like for people to forget that Jews were
> full citizens of Germany, and that they fought side by side with
> other Germans in the trenches of World War I.
> 
>         You are applying your late 20th century experiences and ideas
>         to an early 20th century movement.
> 
> And Mr. Graves is applying his own prejudice to early 20th century
> history, instead of taking a critical look at the period that takes
> into account all the ideas and movements that were competing for
> power in Germany at the time.
> 
>         If we could choose to be born in another time, we would grow
>         up with the ideas and mores of that time.
> 
> Evidently Mr. Graves believes that historic periods and genetic
> races have no more than a single body of ideas and mores that they
> are bound to adhere to.  While it simplifies history and social
> studies to think in this way, it does not lead to a clear and true
> understanding either of history or the modern world.
> 
> --
> Harry Katz

I'm getting damned sick of you Katz. Jesus are you a Jew! First you 
complain that I have slandered you, now you are complaining because I
said that everyone is a product of their time. Don't you ever get tired
of stirring up shit?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:36:25 PST 1995
Article: 12394 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Evidence of a World Zionist Conspiracy Part 1
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 18:13:24 +0000
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Many of you Jews and Jew-Dupes on this NG have been hounding 
me for evidence of a Jewish conspiracy. What I'm about to post
is not proof, however. The Jew is far to clever to let something
such as this be 'proven' as in a court of law.

To frame my arguments I will quote sections from the "Protocols
Of The Learned Elders of Zion", the Jew's blueprint for world
domination, written in 1892 by the founder of the World 
Zionist Movement, Theodore Herzl. I also will show why, in
my estimation, the provinance for this document (i.e is it real
or a forgery) is academic and irrelevent.

>From  Portocol #2
"In the hands of the States of to-day there is a great force that 
creates the movement of thought in the people, and that is the 
Press. The part played by the Press is to keep pointing out 
requirements supposed to be indispensable, to give voice to the 
complaints of the people, to express and to create discontent. 
It is in the Press that the triumph of freedom of speech finds 
its incarnation. But the GOYIM States have not known how to make 
use of this force; and it has fallen into our hands. Through the 
Press we have gained the power to influence while remaining 
ourselves in the shade; thanks to the Press we have got the gold 
in our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather it out
 of oceans of blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have 
sacrificed many of our people. Each victim on our side is worth 
in the sight of God a thousand goyim."

85% of all major American newspapers are owned and/or edited, 
and controlled by Jews.

Examples:

New York Times - Owner/Publisher: Arthur Ochs Sulzberger

LA Times - Publisher: David Laventhol

Atlanta Constituition - Publisher: Arnold Rosenfeld

Detroit Free Press - Publisher: Neil Shine

Washington Post - Owner/Publisher: Katherine Meyer Graham

There are many more. Seek them out.

>From  Protocol #2
"In order to incite seekers after power to a misuse of power 
we have set all forces in opposition one to another, breaking
up their liberal tendencies towards independence. To this end 
we have stirred up every form of enterprise, we have armed all 
parties, we have set up authority as a target for every ambition. 
Of States we have made gladiatorial arenas where a host of 
confused issues contend...... We appear on the scene as alleged 
saviours of the worker from this oppression when we propose to 
him to enter the ranks of our fighting forces--Socialists, Anarchists, 
Communists--to whom we always give support in accordance with 
an alleged  brotherly rule (of the solidarity of all humanity) of our 
social masonry"

The Entire Communist movement was engineered and carried out by Jews. 
Karl Marx who 'invented' Communism was not only a Jew, but a friend and 
confidant of Theodore Herzl, author of the Protocols. Lenin, whose real
 name was  Ulanov  was a geschmott Jew (Geshmott is a Jewish term for 
one who changes his or her name to avoid being recognized as a Jew). 
Lenin's father, whose real name was  Olavin changed it to Ulanov to avoid 
the Czars' pogroms. Leon Trotsky, one of the main instigators of the 1917
Russian Revolution, and Lenin's right-hand man was born Leon Bronstein. 
The Jewish European banker Arthur Rothschild helped to finance the revolution 
as did the Americans Fels (of soap fame) and Guggenhiem (co-founder of
Macy's department store). J. P. Morgan, also a Jew, contributed millions to 
the Communist Revolution in Russia.

>From  Protocol #4
"Per Me reges regnant "It is through Me that Kings reign." And it was said by 
the prophets that we were chosen by God Himself to rule over the whole
 earth. God has endowed  us with genius that we may be equal to our task. 
Were genius in the opposite camp it would still struggle against us, but 
even so a newcomer is no match for the old-established  settler: the 
struggle would be merciless between us, such a fight as the world has 
never yet seen. Aye, and the genius on their side would have arrived too late. 
All the wheels  of the machinery of all States  go  by the force of the engine, 
which is in our hands, and that engine of the machinery of States  is--Gold.
 The science  of political economy invented by our learned elders has for long 
past been giving royal prestige to capital."

The American, and thus the world economy is controlled by the Federal 
Reserve Bank. The head of this organization, the man who tightens and 
loosens the purse strings of the world's economy is the Jew Alan Greenspan. 
The Secretary of the United States Treasury is a Jew named Robert Rubin.
The Chase Manhatten Bank, one of the nation's largest is run by S.C. Bernstein Inc. 
The Bank of America is contolled by Richard M. Rosenberg

>From  Protocol #9
"These springs lay in a strict but just sense of order; we have replaced them by 
the chaotic license of liberalism. We have got our hands into the administration 
of the law, into the conduct of elections, into the press, into liberty of the 
person, but principally into education and training as being the corner-stones 
of a free existence.
We have fooled, bemused and corrupted the youth of the GOYIM by rearing them 
in principles and theories which are known to us to be false  although it is by-us 
that they have been inculcated."

This is the root of modern so-called liberalism. The NEA is rife with Jews. They set  
curriculi based upon the above priciples. 90% of American schoolbooks are published 
by the firm of Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich. They are all designed to inculcate 
liberal ideas into the youth of America.

>From  Protocol #12
"Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. Even now this 
is already being attained  by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few 
agencies, in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These 
agencies will then be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what 
we dictate to them."

"Literature and journalism are two of the most important educative forces, and 
therefore our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals.
 This will neutralise the injurious influence of the privately owned press and will 
put us in possession of a tremendous influence upon the public mind.  If we  give
 permits for ten journals, we shall ourselves found thirty, and so on in the same 
proportion. This, however, must in nowise be suspected  by the public."

We have already seen how the newspapers are owned and/or controlled by the Jews, 
but television is the organ by which most people get "informed" today. Magazines are 
also a favorite form of "information"



NBC - President: Brandon Tartikoff

CBS - President: Laurence A. Tisch

ABC - President: Steve Ross

Time/Warner - President: Andrew Kaplan

Time/Life - President: Gerald Levin
Execitive vice president: Bertram Wasserman

Gannett Publications - President: Allen Neuharth


>From  Protocol #14
"In countries known as progressive and enlightened we have created  a senseless, 
filthy, abominable literature. For some time after our entrance to power we 
shall continue to encourage its existence in order to provide a telling relief by 
contrast to the speeches, party programme, which will be distributed horn exalted 
quarters of ours  ....Our wise men, trained to become  leaders of the goyim, 
will compose  speeches,  projects, memoirs, articles, which will be used by us 
to influence the minds of the goyim, directing them towards such understanding 
and forms of knowledge as have been determined by us."

And they have too. American popular music, once the joy of the world, has been 
turned into an abomination which teaches the young to take 
narcotics, to rape, to ignore laws. 
The Jewish-Hollywood connection is an old story. In the guise of entertainment, the 
Jew inculcates all with his ideas and soon , just as the Protocols predict, these 
abominations become part of the collective culture.
Ever notice that on every documentary or news show where an 'expert' has been 
brought in to expound upon the topic of the day, that expert is invariably, a Jew?

There is more, much more, but you asked for evidence and I have provided it. 
There is a plan called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion", and I
 have pointed out how Jews have positioned themselves to carry out that plan. 

This is not proof, however. Proof, in this case is a philosophical decision. 
Some of the evidence is above. If you are so inclined, seek out the rest. 
These people mean business. they have insinuated themselves into every 
position of influence and power in this society. If not for control and domination, 
then for what purpose? Even if the Protocols are fake, the Jews seem to be in 
a position to carry them out, and in many cases, they have been carried out. 
So it really doesn't matter if the document is fake or not. The fact that it is 
coming to pass, with Jewish guidanceis all that it is necessary to know.
I will now sit back, and await the torrent of excoriation from the likes of the 
Jews on this NG (Katz, Sara, etc.) and their dupes( Crazy Jeannie, eB, Marty 
Kelly, Bill Anderson, Gordon McFee Et Al).


There will be more to come...................

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:36:26 PST 1995
Article: 12403 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Evidence of the Zionist Conspiracy Part 1 (second post attemp)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:12:53 +0000
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Many of you Jews and Jew-Dupes on this NG have been hounding 
me for evidence of a Jewish conspiracy. What I'm about to post
is not proof, however. The Jew is far to clever to let something
such as this be 'proven' as in a court of law.

To frame my arguments I will quote sections from the "Protocols
Of The Learned Elders of Zion", the Jew's blueprint for world
domination, written in 1892 by the founder of the World 
Zionist Movement, Theodore Herzl. I also will show why, in
my estimation, the provinance for this document (i.e is it real
or a forgery) is academic and irrelevent.

>From  Portocol #2
"In the hands of the States of to-day there is a great force that 
creates the movement of thought in the people, and that is the 
Press. The part played by the Press is to keep pointing out requirements 
supposed to be indispensable, to give voice to the complaints of the 
people, to express and to create discontent. It is in the Press that the 
triumph of freedom of speech finds its incarnation. But the GOYIM 
States have not known how to make use of this force; and it has fallen 
into our hands. Through the Press we have gained the power to influence 
while remaining ourselves in the shade; thanks to the Press we have 
got the gold in our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather 
it out of oceans of blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have 
sacrificed many of our people. Each victim on our side is worth in the 
sight of God a thousand goyim."

85% of all major American newspapers are owned and/or edited, and 
controlled by Jews.

Examples:

New York Times - Owner/Publisher: Arthur Ochs Sulzberger

LA Times - Publisher: David Laventhol

Atlanta Constituition - Publisher: Arnold Rosenfeld

Detroit Free Press - Publisher: Neil Shine

Washington Post - Owner/Publisher: Katherine Meyer Graham

There are many more. Seek them out.

>From  Protocol #2
"In order to incite seekers after power to a misuse of power
 we have set all forces in opposition one to another, breaking 
up their liberal tendencies towards independence. To this end 
we have stirred up every form of enterprise, we have armed all 
parties, we have set up authority as a target for every ambition. 
Of States we have made gladiatorial arenas where a host of 
confused issues contend...... We appear on the scene as alleged 
saviours of the worker from this oppression when we propose 
to him to enter the ranks of our fighting forces--Socialists, 
Anarchists, Communists--to whom we always give support in 
accordance with an alleged  brotherly rule (of the solidarity 
of all humanity) of our social masonry"

The Entire Communist movement was engineered and carried out 
by Jews. Karl Marx who 'invented' Communism was not only a Jew, 
but a friend and confidant of Theodore Herzl, author of the Protocols. 
Lenin, whose real name was  Ulanov  was a geschmott Jew (Geshmott 
is a Jewish term for one who changes his or her name to avoid being 
recognized as a Jew). Lenin's father, whose real name was  Olavin 
changed it to Ulanov to avoid the Czars' pogroms. Leon Trotsky, one 
of the main instigators of the 1917 Russian Revolution, and Lenin's 
right-hand man was born Leon Bronstein. The Jewish European banker 
Arthur Rothschild helped to finance the revolution as did the Americans 
Fels (of soap fame) and Guggenhiem (co-founder of Macy's department 
store). J. P. Morgan, also a Jew, contributed millions to the Communist 
Revolution in Russia.

>From  Protocol #4
"Per Me reges regnant "It is through Me that Kings reign." And it was said 
by the prophets that we were chosen by God Himself to rule over the whole 
earth. God has endowed  us with genius that we may be equal to our task. 
Were genius in the opposite camp it would still struggle against us, but
 even so a newcomer is no match for the old-established  settler: the struggle 
would be merciless between us, such a fight as the world has never yet seen. 
Aye, and the genius on their side would have arrived too late. All the wheels  
of the machinery of all States  go  by the force of the engine, which is in our 
hands, and that engine of the machinery of States  is--Gold. The science  of 
political economy invented by our learned elders has for long past been giving 
royal prestige to capital."

The American, and thus the world economy is controlled by the Federal Reserve 
Bank. The head of this organization, the man who tightens and loosens the purse 
strings of the world's economy is the Jew Alan Greenspan. The Secretary of the 
United States Treasury is a Jew named Robert Rubin.
The Chase Manhatten Bank, one of the nation's largest is run by S.C. Bernstein Inc. 
The Bank of America is contolled by Richard M. Rosenberg

>From  Protocol #9
"These springs lay in a strict but just sense of order; we have replaced them by the 
chaotic license of liberalism. We have got our hands into the administration of the 
law, into the conduct of elections, into the press, into liberty of the person, but principally 
into education and training as being the corner-stones of a free existence.
We have fooled, bemused and corrupted the youth of the GOYIM by rearing them in principles
 and theories which are known to us to be false  although it is by-us that they have been 
inculcated."

This is the root of modern so-called liberalism. The NEA is rife with Jews. They set  
curriculi based upon the above priciples. 90% of American schoolbooks are published 
by the firm of Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich. They are all designed to inculcate liberal 
ideas into the youth of America.

>From  Protocol #12
"Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. Even now this is 
already being attained  by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, 
in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then 
be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them."

"Literature and journalism are two of the most important educative forces, and therefore 
our government will become proprietor of the majority of the journals. This will neutralise 
the injurious influence of the privately owned press and will put us in possession of a 
tremendous influence upon the public mind.  If we  give permits for ten journals, we shall
ourselves found thirty, and so on in the same proportion. This, however, must in nowise be 
suspected  by the public."

We have already seen how the newspapers are owned and/or controlled by the Jews, but 
television is the organ by which most people get "informed" today. Magazines are also a 
favorite form of "information"

NBC - President: Brandon Tartikoff

CBS - President: Laurence A. Tisch

ABC - President: Steve Ross

Time/Warner - President: Andrew Kaplan

Time/Life - President: Gerald Levin
Execitive vice president: Bertram Wasserman

Gannett Publications - President: Allen Neuharth


>From  Protocol #14
"In countries known as progressive and enlightened we have created  a senseless, 
filthy, abominable literature. For some time after our entrance to power we shall
 continue to encourage its existence in order to provide a telling relief by contrast 
to the speeches, party programme, which will be distributed horn exalted quarters 
of ours  ....Our wise men, trained to become  leaders of the goyim, will compose  speeches, 
 projects, memoirs, articles, which will be used by us to influence the minds of the 
goyim, directing them towards such understanding and forms of knowledge as have
 been determined by us."

And they have too. American popular music, once the joy of the world, has been turned
into an abomination which teaches the young to take narcotics, to rape, to ignore laws. 
The Jewish-Hollywood connection is an old story. In the guise of entertainment, the 
Jew inculcates all with his ideas and soon , just as the Protocols predict, these 
abominations become part of the collective culture.
Ever notice that on every documentary or news show where an 'expert' has been 
brought in to expound upon the topic of the day, that expert is invariably, a Jew?

There is more, much more, but you asked for evidence and I have provided it. There 
is a plan called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion", and I have pointed out 
how Jews have positioned themselves to carry out that plan. 

This is not proof, however. Proof, in this case is a philosophical decision. Some of 
the evidence is above. If you are so inclined, seek out the rest. These people mean 
business. they have insinuated themselves into every position of influence and power
in this society. If not for control and domination, then for what purpose? Even if the
 Protocols are fake, the Jews seem to be in a position to carry them out, and in many
 cases, they have been carried out. So it really doesn't matter if the document is fake 
or not. The fact that it is coming to pass, with Jewish guidanceis all that it is 
necessary to know.
I will now sit back, and await the torrent of excoriation from the likes of the Jews
 on this NG (Katz, Sara, etc.) and their dupes( Crazy Jeannie, eB, William Anderson, 
Gordon McFee, et al).

More to come........

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 00:36:27 PST 1995
Article: 12404 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: What is the aim of White Nationalists?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:14:57 +0000
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Milton Kleim wrote:
> 
> Caesar (Caesar@augur.demon.co.uk) writes:
> 
> > What exactly are the aims of white nationalists?
> 
> To secure the existence of our People and a future for White children.
> 
> > Do they want an independent white state somewhere, or do they
> > just want to kill everyone who doesn't have the same amount
> > of skin pigmentation as them?
> 
> We will establish an Aryan State based on Aryan values, free of alien
> influence and members of alien races, with a progressive, just social
> order, having as it's greatest aim the evolution of Aryans toward our
> ultimate physical and spiritual potential.
====================================================================
Sounds a lot like America used to be, doesn't it?

George Graves
====================================================================
> 
> We do not seek to oppress or otherwise harm non-Whites, including Jews.
> However, we are prepared to do what is necessary to secure our biological
> and cultural heritage.  The establishment of an "Aryan Confederation" will
> be as peaceful, or as painful, as non-Whites, in particular, Jewry, wish
> it to be.
> --
> "The fate of every last White man, woman, and child on this planet lies
> squarely on the shoulders of us here today.  Out of all the White
> racialist organizations in the Nation, the [National] Alliance, and only
> the Alliance has the potential to bring us to victory!"  -- Bob Mathews


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 19:52:13 PST 1995
Article: 21583 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> In article <30E13ED5.CD3@aimnet.com>, George Graves  wrote:
> 
> > I'm working on it now, sweetheart.
> 
> I am not your sweetheart, Mr. Graves.
> 
> Are you admitting affection for a Jewish woman?
> 
> --

Sara, using an affectionate name for an opponent is called sarcasm. My
use of "sweetheart" is simply drenched in it.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Thu Dec 28 21:45:06 PST 1995
Article: 17795 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Graves Beats a Dead Horse
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:49:56 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> 
> In article <30E137BA.8D9@aimnet.com>, George Graves  wrote:
> 
> > Sara, Sara, Sara! Now you know as well as I do that "The Jew" is not one
> > person. One person does not, a conspiracy, make. Its the Jewish race, the
> > Jewish culture, citizens of the world, with no allegance to any country,
> > any creed except their own. From their positions of authority in this
> > culture, they control almost everything; from the motion picture industry,
> > to almost all of the newspapers in the US, to all of the broadcasting
> > networks, to positions of power and influence in the government. They
> > shape public opinion, and influence public policy. They do this, Sara, in
> > accordance with their master plan for world domination, the "Protocols
> > of the Learned Elders of Zion". I have read them. I know that they are real.
> > Even though you Jews protest to the reverberant hills that they are fake.
> > Sure, If I had a plan for world domination, and it fell into enemy hands, I'd
> > do everything in my power to discredit it too. Doesn't alter the fact that
> > everything outlined in them has come to pass, and that the "Protocols" read
> > like the history of the twentieth century (even though they were penned
> > in the 19th). More to come. Look for a long post from me under the title
> > " Evidence of the Zionist Conspiracy". I will post it, hopefully before the
> > weekend, but no later than New Years day. Remain patient!
> 
> My GOODNESS, Mr. Graves!
> 
> The "Protocols"?!?
> 
> THAT'S what you're basing your paranoid delusions on?!
> 
> Please then, don't waste your time writing any of this drivel to post,
> because it's been discounted and discounted, and no one (except idiots and
> racists) actually believes the "Protocols."
> 
> Let's start with your response to me, though, and see if there's anything there:
> 
> If the "Jewish race" is all involved in the "conspiracy," why do I know
> nothing about it? *My* family was never let in on anyu conspiracy.
> 
> Please explain (without referring to fairy tales like the "Protocols," how
> the "Jewish culture" is a conspiracy. What *is* Jewish culture anyway? And
> is it the same for Eastern European Jews and say... African Jews? Please
> define "Jewish culture-as-conspiracy."
> 
> To your next point, I am an American. I am also a Jew. When I went to
> school, I pledged allegience to the flag, just like the little Christian
> children. Yet you say Jews have no "allegance" [sic] to any country.
> 
> I wonder if you're aware of how many Jews there are in the US Army.
> 
> Now, let's move on to "positions of authority in this country." Mr.
> Graves, you are beating some very dead horses. I know you're new here, but
> these issues have been debated until no one cares any more. Yes, there are
> Jews who own media outlets. And there are non-Jews. For every
> "Jewish-owned-media," there is an equal number (if not more) of
> "non-Jew-owned-media." Is Ted Turner Jewish? Is General Electric Jewish?
> Let's look at the computer industry, certainly one of the most influential
> these days: is Bill Gates Jewish? Is the Chairman of Apple Jewish?
> 
> It's as simple as this: you can't STAND the fact that some Jews are more
> successful than you. Therefore, it MUST be a conspiracy, right? Jewish
> culture, which puts a high value on education, must be a conspiracy.
> You're pathetic, Mr. Graves, and very unoriginal.
> 
> No one buys that crap anymore. And no sane person ever did.
> 
> But the most important question is this: You said:
> > They do this, Sara, in
> > accordance with their master plan for world domination, the "Protocols
> > of the Learned Elders of Zion". I have read them. I know that they are real.
> 
> Okay, I'll bit: HOW do you know they are real? "Because I hate Jews and
> WANT to believe it" is NOT a satisfactory answer. Scholars from across the
> globe have discounted the "Protocols" for years. Yet YOU know better?
> 
> I'd be fascinated to learn HOW you know this.
> 
> But you'll forgive me if I don't bother to read yet another racist
> diatribe about the "Protocols." Don't spew out the same crap, Mr. Graves,
> instead, try something original. Tell us all HOW you know they are real.
> 
> But you can't, because they aren't. They are pathetic, just like those who
> believe in them.
> 
> Sara


OK Sara, I'll tell you how I know they're real. EVERYTHING OUTLINED IN THEM
IS HAPPENING!!!

Read 'em yourself,  (although you probably already have a copy) you can
download a copy in the Adobe Acrobat PDF format from my ftp site. I 
have posted my ftp site address elsewhwere on this NG, so you can go
find it.

Sara its very natural for you to deny all of this. I certainly don't blame
you for doing so.
You say I'm beating a dead horse, and that this subject has come up time
and time again. If this is all BS as you say, why would it keep coming up?
If its not true how come every generation stumbles upon what looks 
suspiciously like a Jewish conspiracy? If you Jews are so innocent, why
is it always you who are singled-out? Why not an Arab conspiracy, or a 
Chinese conspiracy? If you Jews aren't always at the bottom of every kind
anti-establishment movement since Moses, then how come cartioon 
caricatures of Nihilists and Anarchists are always drawn as Jews? How
come in every country you settle, eventually the people rise up and throw
your sorry asses out or try to exterminate you?
There is an old saying: "Where there is smoke there is fire." Could this be the
case here? 

George Graves

PS I don't hate Jews any more than I would hate the Japanese for attacking Pearl
Harbor, or Charlie Manson for killing Sharon Tate and the rest, or John Wayne
Gacey for sodomizing and killing all those young boys. I just hate what they do!


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 11:08:06 PST 1995
Article: 17885 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Graves Beats a Dead Horse
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 23:22:02 +0000
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Charles R.L. Power wrote:
> 
> George Graves  writes:
> 
> >             If you Jews aren't always at the bottom of every kind
> >anti-establishment movement since Moses, then how come cartioon
> >caricatures of Nihilists and Anarchists are always drawn as Jews?
> 
> Wow. Finally, irrefutable proof of the Zionist Conspiracy! Thank you,
> George.
> 
> By the way, regarding your PDR edition of THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF
> ZION, a two-column presentation is a real pain in the ass when you're
> using Adobe Acrobat with a "full page" format. Try reading the damned thing
> on a display and you'll see what I mean. You'd sure be better off with a
> plaintext file, or maybe a Windows help file if you're really feeling
> ambitious. But remember that a computer display does *not* have the same
> dimensions as a (portrait-oriented) sheet of paper.

This is called looking a gift-horse in the mouth. I realize that the format
might not be perfect, this was put together as a Pagemaker 5.0 document
meant to go to print. Since pagemaker 6.0 for the Mac has the ability to
distill a a Pagemaker document to an Acrobat document, I decided to make
it available. If you find it difficult to read, I'm sorry, but I have no 
inclination to change it. I might suggest, however, that you print it out 
to your laser or IJ printer from Acrobat. It will maintain all of its 
formatting including the pull-quotes.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 11:08:10 PST 1995
Article: 17909 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.censorship,alt.religion.scientology,alt.religion.islam,alt.discrimination,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.atheism,alt.tasteless,alt.nuke
Subject: Re: ON NATIONALISM, RACISM, AND RELIGION - PLEASE READ, IMPORTANT!!
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 00:17:50 -0800
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dhaynes@imt.net wrote:
> 
> In , schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
> >In article <30D369CE.76AA@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This may be a matter of opinion, but calling Steven Spielberg the greatest
> >> film maker who ever lived is a lot like calling Harold Robbins or Steven
> >> King the greatest writers who ever lived. It jest ain't so. Anyone who
> >> knows anything about film will tell you that the greatest film maker who
> >> ever lived was John Ford. And coincidently, he was NOT a Jew!
> >
> >Err... I beg to differ, George.
> >
> >The greatest filmmaker who ever lived was Erich von Stroheim... and he WAS
> >Jewish!
> >
> >Sara

Yes, Von Stroheim WAS talented, but the measure of a film maker is his/her
body of work. Von Stroheim was so undisciplined, that most of his movies
(the ones he wasn't fired from, that is) tend to be unwatchable. Have you 
ever seen "Greed" Made from Frank McHugh's novel "McTeague"? No, I don't
mean the abridged one that Turner shows occasionally, I mean the release
version (about 4 hours). Of course Von Stroheim's full version runs more
than 22 reels ( Almost 7 and one-half hours), no one has seen it for 
generations. While filled with masterful scenes, the movie does not view
well, and in the final analysis, is boring. 
I stick with my original opinion. John Ford was the greatest of all film 
makers. With a body of work like "The Informer", "The Grapes of Wrath",
"The Quiet Man" and the "Searchers", I don't think it gets much better
than that. 
Anyway, my point was not so much that there weren't good Jewish 
filmakers (lord knows, there were), but that Mr. Spielberg is simply
not among them. His films, while entertaining, contain little substance,
and are not particularly well made. A case in point would be "Jurassic Park".
No script (to speak of), more lapses in continuity than one can poke a stick
at, and poorly edited (F.I. Scene in dinning room between Laura Dern's 
character, and Richard Attenborough's character. The whole film STOPS
cold while Attenborough tells us about his flea circus. Not good). Great
special effects, though. The best ever!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 12:06:36 PST 1995
Article: 21106 of can.politics
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 23:30:44 +0000
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PKolding wrote:
> 
>  wrote:
> 
> >> I agree that such civil actions are bad, but let us understand that
> >> this was a CIVIL action for damages----not a prosecution undertaken by
> >> the government. There is an enormous difference between the government
> >> throwing you in jail for saying things they don't care for, and your
> >> neighbour trying to extract dubious damages for the same reason. The
> >> real threats to free speech in the U.S. is in government
> >> offices---where there is now enforced a sort of legal codification of
> >> drawing room manners---and under state "harrassment" laws, which are
> >> leading to huge deficits for the organisations involved (most of which
> >> are government agencies) because of the enormous damages that are
> >> regularly awarded.
> >>
> >>ncrccjc responds;
> >Who said I believed such civil action is bad? In fact I believe Canada's anti-hate laws were wisely written and in it's 25 year existance has only been used 8
> >Canada's Supreme Court has found these laws to be constittutional and in order for a charge to be laid it needs the prior approval of the provinces Attorney -
> >These safegaurds have ensured that Canada has been able to maintain that fine balance between our sacred right to free speech and the right of all people in s
> >live free from vilification. It's what makes Canada a great place to live.
> 
> Then you are deluding yourself.  You claim that it takes the
> permission of the Attroney General to have charges laid---that makes
> them essentially political crimes. And it doesn't take anyone's
> permission to have the police "investigate" people for these political
> crimes.
> 
> Canada loses all claim to being a free and democratic country so long
> as it has these laws on the books.

I have been trying to make this very point clear to ncccrcccjc since the
begining of this debate. You are quite correct Mr. Kolding!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 12:06:37 PST 1995
Article: 21107 of can.politics
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 23:32:38 +0000
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PKolding wrote:
> 
> ncrccjc@ibm.net wrote:
> 
> >> >
> >> > ncrccjc responds;
> >> >
> >> > The bottom line my friend is that Hate speech is the seed by
> >> > which democracies have ultimately been destroyed. Evil words
> >> > ultimately lead to evil action. Just ask Timothy MacVay.
> >> > ncrccjc
> >>
> >> George Graves responds:
> >> Actually, just the opposite is true. Hate speech, or any other kind of
> >> speech cannot be curtailed in a democracy without undermining the
> >> principles upon which that democracy is based. There must be room
> >> for the free expression of all opinions, or there is no freedom at all.
> >> A government which can tell you that you cannot express an opinion
> >> based on hatred today, can prevent you from expressing a critical
> >> opinion of that same government tomorrow.
> >>
> >> George Graves
> 
> >ncrccjc responds:
> >Canada is a vibrant and thriving democracy.
> 
> It isn't. It is an authoritarian, repressive country, run by what is
> essentially a political oligarchy. Its internal policies are that of
> an empire, and its foreign policy entirely inclined to the internal
> propaganda such activity can produce.
> 
> >Our anti-hate laws were carefully
> >crafted to ensure the fine balance between free speech and protection for
> >minorities.
> 
> The Hate Laws have an ancient lineage---State political repression.
> All such laws are created and enforced to secure to government the
> power to gain favour from certain groups in society by jailing people
> without the necessity of actual criminality taking place.
> 
> >Even, per capita, Canada has much fewer hate crimes than the
> >United States.
> 
> This is untrue. In fact, the official commission of "hate crimes" is
> the central policy of most Canadian governments today.
> 
> >As well, our law has been used judiciously and fairly.
> 
> Jailing people for their opinions is only judicious and fair in
> totalitarian or theocratic states.
> 
> >Any
> >country that values pluralism and its dynamic multicultural communities will
> >understand the need to ensure proper protection from those whose sole aim it
> >is to destroy all that Canada has become.
> 
> The protection of a totalitarian state from the opinions of its own
> citizens is quite a common reaction of their governments and
> supporters. That they cast this activity under the light of
> "protecting minorities" or "pluralism" or "multiculturalism" is also
> common, if not entirely predictable.
> 
> > Interestingly, the very few
> >"leaders" of Canada's hate movements are today either in jail or facing
> >criminal charges, not as a result of our anti-hate laws, but due to other
> >criminal behavior ranging from assault to mischief. Once a thug always a thug
> 
> Interestingly, with "Hate Laws" on the books, one hardly has to rely
> on "other criminal behaviour" does one? And if someone has not been
> convicted---or even charged---under the hate laws how do you justify
> typifying a movement as a "hate" movement? Isn't the use of such
> terminology in itself a perfect example of the commission of a "hate
> crime"?

Bravo! Mr. Kolding!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 12:06:38 PST 1995
Article: 21120 of can.politics
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,can.politics
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 00:31:55 -0800
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To: Ken McVay OBC 
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:12578 can.politics:21120

Ken McVay OBC wrote:
> 
> In article <4babn6$12vs@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>,
> speedy5@ibm.net (KT) wrote:
> 
> >"Liberals encourage free speech and free thought"? Yeah, as long as the
> >*thoughts and speeches* are FOR the destruction of the White race. The
> >hate-law in Canada (and other countries) is proof of this.
> 
> Tell us, nameless one, how many times Canada's hate-crimes
> laws have been applied, and how many of those applications
> were successful.
> 
> Having done that, perhaps we can discuss those laws, and their
> application.
> 
> --
>     
Doesn't matter, OyVay. Freedom of speech is an absolute. One either has it
or one doesn't (sorta like pregnancy). The fact that the law is on the books
shows that, in Canada, THAT freedom has been abridged. You have to be 
careful with freedom. Abridging or curtailing some part of it might seem
to one generation to be a political or social expedient, but in the end it 
hurts every one. Why? because those in power will be tempted (and will
therefore, being politicians,  yield to that temptation) to say, "we made 
it illegal to say this, why not make it illegal to say that?" If you can do 
one, you can do the other.
At least here in the U.S.A. no such laws have been passed at the national
level (yet, but there are those who would like to...). Some states and some
cities passed anti-hate ordinances and laws, but the would not stand up
to the scrutiny of the Supreme Court, because they ARE unconstitutional.


George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 17:18:30 PST 1995
Article: 9450 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Graves Beats a Dead Horse
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 13:46:49 +0000
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Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
>>SNIP<<
> > > But the most important question is this: You said:
> > > > They do this, Sara, in
> > > > accordance with their master plan for world domination, the "Protocols
> > > > of the Learned Elders of Zion". I have read them. I know that they
> are real.
> > >
> > > Okay, I'll bite: HOW do you know they are real? "Because I hate Jews and
> > > WANT to believe it" is NOT a satisfactory answer. Scholars from across the
> > > globe have discounted the "Protocols" for years. Yet YOU know better?
> > >
> > > I'd be fascinated to learn HOW you know this.
> 
>    Finally, Mr. Graves responded:
> >
> > OK Sara, I'll tell you how I know they're real. EVERYTHING OUTLINED IN THEM
> > IS HAPPENING!!!
> 
> So have the predictions of Nostramadus. Do you also believe in him?
====================================================================
No, they haven't
====================================================================
> >
> > Read 'em yourself,  (although you probably already have a copy) you can
> > download a copy in the Adobe Acrobat PDF format from my ftp site. I
> > have posted my ftp site address elsewhwere on this NG, so you can go
> > find it.
> 
> Why do I probably have a copy, Mr. Graves? Do you think it's part of the
> ZOG Initiation packet? Do you think we're all given copies when we're
> born?
====================================================================
I would have thought, that since you rail so against them, that you would
at least have a copy of a work upon which you are so undoubted and expert.
====================================================================
> And by the way, Mr. Graves, WHICH translation are you using? And from what
> language?
====================================================================
Victor Marsten's translation. He obtained them from a man named Sergei
Nilus. They were written in German by Theodore Herzl.
====================================================================
> 
> >
> > Sara its very natural for you to deny all of this. I certainly don't blame
> > you for doing so.
> 
> In other words, nothing I say has any credibility because I'm "in on it." (Yawn)
> 
> > You say I'm beating a dead horse, and that this subject has come up time
> > and time again. If this is all BS as you say, why would it keep coming up?
> > If its not true how come every generation stumbles upon what looks
> > suspiciously like a Jewish conspiracy? If you Jews are so innocent, why
> > is it always you who are singled-out? Why not an Arab conspiracy, or a
> > Chinese conspiracy? If you Jews aren't always at the bottom of every kind
> > anti-establishment movement since Moses, then how come cartioon
> > caricatures of Nihilists and Anarchists are always drawn as Jews? How
> > come in every country you settle, eventually the people rise up and throw
> > your sorry asses out or try to exterminate you?
> 
> Ah, the basis for an intellectual argument: People hate you, so you must
> be evil. Maybe there's a chicken-and-egg here, Mr. Graves. Maybe people
> BELIEVE crap like this because they're stupid and gullible, and REACT by
> treating Jews badly.
====================================================================
No, I don't think so. But at least you didn't fall back on that old "Christ 
Killer" nonesense.
====================================================================
> 
> Why are Jews always singled out? That's an easy one. Because we're smart,
> we're able to adapt to any country we live in, and we are able to become
> successful. That just burns your little white trash ass, doesn't it? You
> NEED a scapegoat, because otherwise, you might have to take responsibility 
>for your OWN sorry life, instead of having the Jews to blame it on.
====================================================================
Don't you mean try to take over every country you live in? BTW, I love the 
assumptions you Jews and other liberals make about people's sorry lives.
Believe me, being a racists or an anti-semite has nothing whatsoever to
do with a person's personal success or happiness. But you assume that 
anyone who doesn't believe your sick liberal filth must be some kind of 
unhappy failure looking for someone to blame. Well lady, it just ain't so.
That's just as much (or even more of) a stereotype than you libs accuse
we racists of making-up.
=====================================================================
 
> > There is an old saying: "Where there is smoke there is fire." Could this
> be the case here?
> 
> How about, "Where there's racists, there's hatred." Or, "Where there's
> jealousy, there's a scapegoat." Or "Where there's morons, there's
> anti-Semitism."
> 
> You're basing your hatred of Jews on an old saying?!?!? Now THAT'S
> intellectualism at its BEST!
====================================================================
You believe because I use an old saying that I base my assertions on it?
I know you are an intelligent person, so I won't call you a moron, but really
Sara, you ARE grasping at straws.
====================================================================
> 
> >
> > George Graves
> >
> > PS I don't hate Jews any more than I would hate the Japanese for
> attacking Pearl
> > Harbor, or Charlie Manson for killing Sharon Tate and the rest, or John Wayne
> > Gacey for sodomizing and killing all those young boys. I just hate what
> they do!
> 
> Oh, I'm SO relieved! And I thought you just hated Jews. You hate WHITE guys too!
> 
> You're pathetic, Mr. Graves. Even the other racists here want nothing to
> do with you.
> 
> Sara
=====================================================================
Another assumption Sara. Two in one rant is poor form. Your rabbi won't 
be pleased. 

George Graves
=====================================================================


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 17:50:15 PST 1995
Article: 12541 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Not even the National Alliance will touch the _Protocols_!
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 23:42:01 +0000
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Bryan Cowan wrote:
> 
> I just got my National Alliance catalog and-suprise!-the _Protocols of the
> Learned Elders of Zion_ isn't in it. I wonder why even the National
> Alliance won't offer this book. I've always wanted to read this (in)famous
> book, and since George Graves has put it on his ftp site I may go over
> there and grab it. But I would like a paper copy to pull out and use. Can
> anybody suggest where I can find one?

Yeah, download the PDF file and print it out on your computer printer, 
and then put it in a binder. It was formatted for print anyway. I just
put it up for you folks to download as a courtesy. Its only 36 pages
BTW.
You can't generally find it because since its been discredited, nobody
wants to make it available so that people can make up their own minds.
This copy was OCR'd by me from a pre-WWII book called "The Road to 
Jewish Failure" By C.R. McMannus 1938. I found it in a used bookstore
in Berkeley CA. After I OCR'd it, I spent some time cleaning it up (OCR
programs are really miraculous, but they are by no means perfect), and
then formatted it into Aldus (now Adobe) Pagemaker for print. The 
Acrobat file will print perfectly to whatever printer you have access to, 
lased or inkjet..

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 17:50:16 PST 1995
Article: 12546 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Threats
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 23:49:38 +0000
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xyz@scsn.net wrote:
> 
> joel rosenburg sent this to me and to my system administrator:
> 
> :Given the just barely implicit threats that have been made against one Ken
> :McVay by somebody apparently posting from this account under, variously, the
> :names of "Davey Padget", "R.C. Richards", and "Racial Theorist", I thought
> :it only fair to verify this information before passing it along to the
> :appropriate authorities, who undoubtedly will either be aware or be made
> :aware that McVay has recently been targetted by at least one white
> :supremacist group for his anti-bigotry work on the Nizkor Project.
> 
> so have you passed the info on to the appropiate authorities, joel?  i
> guess i'm gonna be locked up, huh?
> like i told you, joel, sorry but i haven't threatened anybody, not
> implicitly, not explicitly, not barely implicitly.  basically, joel,
> you're full of it.
> i never have gone in for this paramilitary crap or for breaking any
> laws or for writing threats.  so for you to jump up on your high horse
> and say i have basically shows you to be crybaby and a liar, plain and
> simple.
> as far as mcvay goes, i don't much care what he does with his spare
> time.  and i don't think much of his nizkor project other than that
> it's a good way for him to waste his time.  i think it's great that he
> archives everybody's posts.  but, sorry, joel, i ain't too impressed
> with kenny mcvay or with his work.
> just what do you think i would stand to gain by threatening kenny
> mcvay?
> i guess it kind of got to you, joel, that i kind of pointed out a few
> inconsistencies in mcvay's way of thinking, but that don't give
> anybody a right to threaten him.  sure he's a hypocrite.  sure he's a
> don quixote, jousting at imaginary windmills.  sure he pumps gas for a
> living and sure he's a jerk, and sure you and he have one set of rules
> for kenny mcvay and another set for everybody else,  but i really
> don't think enough of him one way or the other to threaten him.
> basically, what joel has proven is what i've said all along about
> liberals being against free speech.  but there ain't but about 8 isp's
> here in columbia.
> and you haven't done anything to help your cause, joel.  i'm beginning
> to think that some of the things les and i have disagreed on in this
> ng recently--that les might just know what he's talking about.
> 
> in loyal service to the white race,
> 
> R.C. Richards, Racial Theorist

This is what I can't understand. These people come on this NG and call us
racists and biggots, and tell us we're wrong, and scream hatefull things
at us ("We love all humanity,BUT WE HATE RACISTS"). but when we say 
things that they don't like, they accuse us of slander, they accuse us of
threatening them. I don't get it. If I didn't want to get beaten-up by a 
big gorilla, I WOULDN'T GO INTO HIS CAGE!

Maybe these people think that there are easy victories here. Well, they 
are finding out differently. Notice how liberals scream when THEY don't
get their way!

George Graves

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 17:50:20 PST 1995
Article: 12623 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Evidence of the Zionist Conspiracy Part 1 (second post attemp)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:00:48 +0000
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Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> 
> In article <30E19AB5.69FF@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> > 85% of all major American newspapers are owned and/or edited, and
> > controlled by Jews.
> 
> What is the source of, and the evidence for, this assertion?

===================================================================
I counted 'em. If you want conformation, you go and count 'em
===================================================================
> 
> > This is the root of modern so-called liberalism. The NEA is rife with Jews.
> 
> How many Jews, exactly, are in the NEA, and what percentage of the
> membership is Jewish? "Rife" is an imprecise term. Please quantify.
====================================================================
You count 'em. I'm not here to do all of your work for you. If you are 
interested in this subject, look this stuff up for yourself, I had to. If 
you're not, ignore it.
====================================================================
> 
> > They set
> > curriculi based upon the above priciples. 90% of American schoolbooks
> are published
> > by the firm of Harcourt Brace and Jovanovich.
> 
> Please cite your evidence for this 90% figure. The implication of this
> assertion is, obviously, that Harcourt Brace Jovanovich is completely
> controlled by Jews. Please cite your evidence for that, as well.
===================================================================
"American Corporations, Their Influence on Society" 1993 Edition.
===================================================================
> > We have already seen how the newspapers are owned and/or controlled by
> the Jews,...
> 
> No, "we" have not. _You_ have not yet demonstrated the truth of that assertion.
> 
> > And they have too. American popular music, once the joy of the world,
> has been turned
> > into an abomination which teaches the young to take narcotics, to rape,
> to ignore laws.
> > The Jewish-Hollywood connection is an old story.
> 
> "Story" is perhaps the best term for what you have to say. Until factual
> evidence supporting the assertions you have made is forthcoming, said
> assertions will remain "stories".
==================================================================
Go look it up. Hundreds of books have been written about Jewish control
of Hollywood. Jack Warner, Warner Bros., Louis B. Mayer, MGM. Carl Leammle,
Universal. Their modern Equivalents: N. Katzenbaum, Disney, Gerald Levin, 
Warner Communications. The beat goes on. LOOK IT UP! 
> 
> > Ever notice that on every documentary or news show where an 'expert' has been
> > brought in to expound upon the topic of the day, that expert is
> invariably, a Jew?
> 
> Kindly provide evidence for your assertion that every expert on every news
> show or documentary ever broadcast has been jewsih. This sounds very like
> Weltner's "blacks never marry".
====================================================================
And you sound very  much like someone who is blind and deaf.
==================================================================== 
> > There is more, much more, but you asked for evidence and I have provided it.
> 
> No, you have not. You have made numerous assertions with no supporting
> evidence.
====================================================================
I have named names and provided connections to the Protocols. This is the
circumstantial evidence I was talking about. I don't give a rat's ass if you
believe it or not. If you want more evidence, GO AND LOOK FOR IT. That is 
my sole purpose in posting this stuff; to get people to look at it as I have.
=====================================================================
> 
> > This is not proof, however. Proof, in this case is a philosophical decision.
> 
> No, it is not. Proof is providing the evidence that supports your
> assertions. Belief is a philosophical decision. It is clear that you
> believe your assertions. Can you prove them?
=====================================================================
No,  I want YOU to prove them. That's the only way that they will make any
impression on you. If you are not interested, leave it for someone who is.
I've made my decision. I've looked at the world for over 20 years mindfull
of the connections made here and more. It's interesting how simple things
become when you are aware of the unseen hand.
======================================================================
> 
> Posted and emailed.
> 
> JGB

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 17:50:21 PST 1995
Article: 12631 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Graves Beats a Dead Horse
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 13:54:35 +0000
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Charles R.L. Power wrote:
> 
> George Graves  writes:
> 
> >This is called looking a gift-horse in the mouth.
> 
> No, it's called "friendly advice," which is admittedly more than a
> shitbrained Nazi-wannabe like yourself, without the guts to even try
> to defend the crapola he makes available to the net, deserves.
> 
> >inclination to change it. I might suggest, however, that you print it out
> >to your laser or IJ printer from Acrobat. It will maintain all of its
> >formatting including the pull-quotes.
> 
> What is it about you and Tom Moron, who think that everyone on this
> newsgroup has a laser printer? Was there some HP discount program for
> antisemites a while back that I didn't here about?

I was trying to be helpful smartass. And I said laser or IJ (ink-jet) printer.
Are you multiculturalists so unsuccessful at what you do for a living that
you can't even afford a cheap inkjet printer? Gimme your bank account 
number and I'll donate enough for you to buy one :).

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 19:10:36 PST 1995
Article: 17973 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Graves Beats a Dead Horse
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 13:54:35 +0000
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Charles R.L. Power wrote:
> 
> George Graves  writes:
> 
> >This is called looking a gift-horse in the mouth.
> 
> No, it's called "friendly advice," which is admittedly more than a
> shitbrained Nazi-wannabe like yourself, without the guts to even try
> to defend the crapola he makes available to the net, deserves.
> 
> >inclination to change it. I might suggest, however, that you print it out
> >to your laser or IJ printer from Acrobat. It will maintain all of its
> >formatting including the pull-quotes.
> 
> What is it about you and Tom Moron, who think that everyone on this
> newsgroup has a laser printer? Was there some HP discount program for
> antisemites a while back that I didn't here about?

I was trying to be helpful smartass. And I said laser or IJ (ink-jet) printer.
Are you multiculturalists so unsuccessful at what you do for a living that
you can't even afford a cheap inkjet printer? Gimme your bank account 
number and I'll donate enough for you to buy one :).

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 19:10:37 PST 1995
Article: 17976 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: To the pedantic jew Harry Katz (was: Movin' jews!)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:09:38 +0000
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Stewart King wrote:
> 
> Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> : Harry "Cool" Katz (hkatz@earth.usa.net) writes:
> : > Finally, in article <30E19067.7349@aimnet.com>,
> : > George Graves (gmgraves@aimnet.com) whines:
> : >
> : >     I am NOT a lover of nor a supporter of Hitler. Just because Both
> : >     Hitler and I share a couple of views doesn't erase my loathing
> : >     of what he did.
> : >
> : > I am glad that Mr. Graves loathes Hitler, although I must point out
> : > that I did not accuse him of loving Hitler in the first place!
> 
> : 'Scuse me, Learned Elder, but WHEN did "I am NOT a lover nor a supporter
> : of Hitler" become "I loathe Hitler"?
> 
> Towards the end of the paragraph?  Look carefully.
> 
> Loathing of what he did, anyway.  A small distinction, considering that
> hopefully George was referring to Hitler's acts rather than Hitler the man
> throughout his comments.  I would hate to imagine anyone accusing Mr.
> Graves of being Hitler's lover.
> 
> What I'm wondering is when Hitler's first name became "Both".

Its a little known fact. Hitler didn't like the name Adolf, and since he
couldn't make up his mind whether to be Austrian of Jewish descent, 
or German of Nordic Aryan descent, he decided to be Both.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 19:12:38 PST 1995
Article: 12636 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Canada's Hate-crime laws
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:49:49 +0000
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ncrccjc@ibm.net wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> >
> > Bravo! Mr. Kolding!
> >
> > George Graves
> 
> ncrccjc responds:
> While George Graves and Mr. Kolding continue to defend hate-mongers and the
> vibrant democracy that is the USA, Canadians and other free thinkers around
> the world will continue to hope that America will not produce any more
> Metzgers, Macvays, and racist military types who murder Blacks. I find it
> facinating that practically every free and democratic nation on Earth has
> formulated legislation to deal with Hatemongers. Countrys such as Great
> Britain, France, Austrailia, New Zealand, Belgium, Holland, Sweden,
> Switzerland and Germany to name a few all have anti-hate laws. Maybe, just
> maybe it's the United States that has its head buried in the 19th century?

You just don't get it do you? Hate is NOT the issue here! FREEDOM is the 
issue here. Totalitarianism is the issue here, because curtailment of the
freedom of speech is the first step any despotic government takes in that
direction!

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Fri Dec 29 19:12:39 PST 1995
Article: 12640 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: dung eaters
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:46:24 +0000
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Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Message Here
> 
> you are dung underfoot, all of you!
> 

At least the "dung underfoot" has the balls, Chutzpah, intestinal fortitude, 
personal integrity (I'm speaking for all sides of all the debates here),
or whatever you chose to call it TO USE THEIR REAL NAMES WHEN THEY
POST. They don't sit off in some furtive corner shooting meaningless
barbs out of the darkness and signing them 'Anonymous'. Are you 
masturbating, by any chance while you write these silly little 
comments? I thought so.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 30 09:50:46 PST 1995
Article: 18034 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Kleim the Kook and Messiah of the neoKooks
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:59:23 +0000
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Frank Weltner wrote:
> 
> Remember, Hitler eats donkey dongs.
> 

Frank, Hitler doesn't eat anything! He's been existentially challanged for
over 50 years, now. The world would have probably forgotten about him
by now if the Jews didn't do a holocaust show on PBS, Discovery, TLC, or
A&E at least once a week (or so it seems).

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 30 09:50:47 PST 1995
Article: 18035 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Warning to all Brother Aryan Warriors
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:02:04 +0000
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kestrel@epix.net wrote:
> 
> Fellow Warriors
> 
>         Please be advised of the following warning:
> 
>         For those of you who may not be aware of it but, all of those grocery
> items marked with a K or a little u in a circle, are kosher and contain traces
> of cat urine in them.  The cat pee is used in some sort of ceremony by a yid
> rabbi to make the stuff kosher.  Just thought you might want to know about
> this so you can watch what you buy in the stores.
>         If you don't believe it, why do you think all natural foods, like
> those found in nature stores can't be kosher?  Its because "all natural" means
> no additives like the cat pee used by those freaking jews.
>         Be warned and Be careful

A pretty traffe warning, that.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 30 18:22:34 PST 1995
Article: 18116 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Griswold: Dreck & Garbage
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 15:17:13 +0000
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Achim Scheve wrote:
> 
> schwartz@infinet.com schrieb am 27.12.95 in der Msg A62953@MK2 (Gruppe
> soc.culture.german):
> >
> > It may be German as well as Yiddish. There are many words shared by
> >German and Yiddish. It is NOT, however, Dutch. Dutch contains quite a
> >number of Yiddish words -- street slang. Dreck is Yiddish.
> Dreck is also a german word and means those garbage you collect under
> your shoes.
> It is no slang word in German.
> 
> Achim

"Dreck" (its "drech", actually) IS a Yiddish word. according to my Yiddish
dictionary it means: Filth, dirt, muck, anything that is dirty in a messy
way.

There used to be a TV science fiction show called "Schtick Drech" with
Captain Kirtchner, Mr. Schnock, Mr. Jewlu, and a schwartze. They went
all over the galaxy looking for food marked "Parvee".

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 30 18:22:35 PST 1995
Article: 18119 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bigots at odds (was: ANOTHER whopper for you exterminationists)
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Les Griswold wrote:

> Time to get those granny-glasses checked, Jeffy.  I already explained that
> Frankie is a bigot, I am a racist.  And no, contrary to what Daniel Mittleman
> said, I am *NOT* an anti-semite.  I have nothing aginst the hundreds of
> millions of arabs in the Middle East (INCLUDING those Palestinians, BTW!), so
> long as they don't interfere with the destiny of the White race.  Jews do.
>  In fact, they can't help it.
> 
> Les

Yeah, Les, interesting word anti-semite. Jews will lump themselves
together with Arabs gladly when it is a question of discrimination
against them. I don't use the word for that very reason. When I want
to say that I'm anti-Jew, I mean anti-Jew, not anti Arabs and Jews.

Ever notice how Jews like to hide when the going gets tough and then,
when times are good for 'em they want to stand proud of the rabble?
I'll give you an example. All during the thirties, when Germany 
threatened to spread Nazi-ism all over Europe and America, Jewish
doctors started pushing circumcision for all males. If you were born
in a hospital in the U.S.A. after about 1934, you were circumcised.
Throughout the 40's, 50's, 60's 70's and 80's when a bunch of guys 
were showering in the locker room, or in the barracks, you couldn't
tell the Jew-boy from the goy-boy - they were hiding. 
But now that any organized threat against them is gone, and now 
that they are pretty much in control, the Jewish doctors are telling
goyishe parents NOT to circumcise their male babies. Now, only Jew
boys will be circumcised and they can wear it as a badge proudly once
more.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 30 21:21:18 PST 1995
Article: 18116 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Griswold: Dreck & Garbage
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 15:17:13 +0000
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Achim Scheve wrote:
> 
> schwartz@infinet.com schrieb am 27.12.95 in der Msg A62953@MK2 (Gruppe
> soc.culture.german):
> >
> > It may be German as well as Yiddish. There are many words shared by
> >German and Yiddish. It is NOT, however, Dutch. Dutch contains quite a
> >number of Yiddish words -- street slang. Dreck is Yiddish.
> Dreck is also a german word and means those garbage you collect under
> your shoes.
> It is no slang word in German.
> 
> Achim

"Dreck" (its "drech", actually) IS a Yiddish word. according to my Yiddish
dictionary it means: Filth, dirt, muck, anything that is dirty in a messy
way.

There used to be a TV science fiction show called "Schtick Drech" with
Captain Kirtchner, Mr. Schnock, Mr. Jewlu, and a schwartze. They went
all over the galaxy looking for food marked "Parvee".

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sat Dec 30 21:21:19 PST 1995
Article: 18119 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bigots at odds (was: ANOTHER whopper for you exterminationists)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 15:46:12 +0000
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Les Griswold wrote:

> Time to get those granny-glasses checked, Jeffy.  I already explained that
> Frankie is a bigot, I am a racist.  And no, contrary to what Daniel Mittleman
> said, I am *NOT* an anti-semite.  I have nothing aginst the hundreds of
> millions of arabs in the Middle East (INCLUDING those Palestinians, BTW!), so
> long as they don't interfere with the destiny of the White race.  Jews do.
>  In fact, they can't help it.
> 
> Les

Yeah, Les, interesting word anti-semite. Jews will lump themselves
together with Arabs gladly when it is a question of discrimination
against them. I don't use the word for that very reason. When I want
to say that I'm anti-Jew, I mean anti-Jew, not anti Arabs and Jews.

Ever notice how Jews like to hide when the going gets tough and then,
when times are good for 'em they want to stand proud of the rabble?
I'll give you an example. All during the thirties, when Germany 
threatened to spread Nazi-ism all over Europe and America, Jewish
doctors started pushing circumcision for all males. If you were born
in a hospital in the U.S.A. after about 1934, you were circumcised.
Throughout the 40's, 50's, 60's 70's and 80's when a bunch of guys 
were showering in the locker room, or in the barracks, you couldn't
tell the Jew-boy from the goy-boy - they were hiding. 
But now that any organized threat against them is gone, and now 
that they are pretty much in control, the Jewish doctors are telling
goyishe parents NOT to circumcise their male babies. Now, only Jew
boys will be circumcised and they can wear it as a badge proudly once
more.

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 31 08:57:23 PST 1995
Article: 18211 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Warning to all Brother Aryan Warriors
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 23:01:15 +0000
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Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> In article <4c4fek$83m@newsbf02.news.aol.com> fresh816@aol.com (Fresh816) writes:
> >Path:
> 
> >You mean I went out and bought a cat to drink its piss when the stuff was
> >over the counter all along.
> 
> >Oy vey!
> 
> Please don't disabuse them of the notion.  Please.  The idea of the trashies
> having to look long, hard, far, and wide, to avoid kosher products --  not to
> mention the extra cost they put themselves to --  tickles me.
> --------------------------------
> "Now, as to the sermon--a proud and arrogant man, such as yourself---with an
> admittedly admirable quality of didacticism about him---was given to doing
> research in the area of a certain disfiguring and degenerative disease.  One
> day he contracted it himself.  Since he had not yet developed a cure for the
> condition, he did take time out to regard himself in the mirror and say,
> 'But on *me* it does look good.'"
> 
>                         -- Roger Zelazny

You won't find me avoiding Kosher products. Very little satisfies as well as
a real New York Kosher pastrami sandwich on Jewish corn rye and a GOOD
Kosher dill pickle (lox and bagles, kreplock soup and gefilte fish ain't bad
eating either)

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Sun Dec 31 10:09:58 PST 1995
Article: 12877 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Dead Jews and Power
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 23:17:07 +0000
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mebesius@sfu.ca wrote:
> 
> In Saturday's edition of _The Globe and Mail_ "Canada's National
> Newspaper" they had a section on all the famous people who died this year.
> 
> Saidye Rosner Bronfman, 99, "one of Canada's most generous patrons of the
> arts and the matriarch of one of the country's wealthiest families [see
> Edgar Bronfman Jr., chief executive of Seagram Co. Ltd., and MCA Inc.,
> parent company of Universal].  Mrs. Bronfman devoted her life to cultural
> and charitable activities, founding the Jewish branch of the Canadian Red
> Cross Society."
> 
> I would suggest that she devoted her life to making sure her family
> continued making money and getting their greedy little hands on more
> companies and control of more power.  Question: Why would Jews need their
> own branch of the Red Cross?  Why would they need their own blood supply?
> Are they trying to make sure that only Jew blood is used for Jews?  Bet
> their blood supply wasn't contaminated with HIV!
> 
> Sir Philip Oppenheimer, 83,  "who until 1993 was chairman of De Beers
> Mining Co.'s diamond-marketing cartel, which controlled the world supply
> of diamonds and ended the wild price swings that had brought disaster to
> many of the smaller diamond mines."
> 
> Bullshit!  Bullshit!  Bullshit!  What brought "disaster" to these smaller
> diamond companies was De Beers!  They bought up, intimidated, and used
> violence, to get these suppliers out of the market.  These so-called
> "wild price swings" are normally referred to as the normal workings of
> the free market, and supply and demand.   Let's face it, De Beers'
> hands can be seen working in the politics of every African country with
> diamonds--and now in Russia with its vast diamond reserves.
==================================================================
I just found out something about diamonds of which I was unaware. They
aren't really either very rare or very valuable. Rubbies are 50 times
rarer than diamonds and blue sapphires are a thousand times rarer! Lapis
Lazuli might be the rarest of all being found only in Chile and Afghanistan.
The reason why diamonds are the most expensive gemstones is because the
diamond industry (headed by the aforementioned Oppenheimer family) has a
virtual monopoly on the world's supply, and keeps them off the market to
keep prices artificially high. I understand that DeBeers has warehouses
filled with enough diamonds to last the world a thousand years, even if
not another diamond were ever taken from the earth. This is ONE Jewish
conspiracy that they don't even try to hide. Its very well known, its just
that no one can do anything about it except play (and pay) along.

George Graves
===================================================================     
> 
> Some have argued that Harry Oppenheimer may have been the world's richest Jew.
>  It has also been said that De Beers produces and sells, at least, 85 percent
> of the world's rough, uncut diamonds.  "In these modern times, when
> price-controlling cartels have been outlawed in other industries, the survival
> of the De Beers monopoly is astonishing."  _McCall's_, March 1969, pp. 167-68.
> This observation was made in1969!  And this monopoly is still making money!
> 
> In Wilmot Robertson's _The Dispossessed Majority_, he sheds some light on
> the workings of De Beers:  "The best gem diamonds come from Sierra Leone
> where a company broke the De Beers monopoly for a brief period in the
> early 1960s, until Oppenheimer persuaded the Sierra Leone Parliament to
> 'shut down' the competition....Needless to say, diamonds were not included
> in the sanctions Congress [had] imposed on South Africa.  Israel's ties to
> South Africa are rather close, considering that the Zionist state
> votes against South Africa whenever the latter's racial 'misbehavior'
> comes up before the United Nations.  South Africa has plenty of uranium
> and Israel a lot of nuclear technology."
> 
> That an Oppenheimer or a Bronfman should get so much ass-kissing press is
> expected--that those with this power should expect us to embrace their
> oligarchy/kleptocracy is wishful thinking.  There is too much money and
> power concentrated in the hands of too few Jews (and others) and
> people must know who is really in control of their country (hint: it ain't the
> politicians).


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Jan  1 00:32:02 PST 1996
Article: 18297 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bigots at odds (was: ANOTHER whopper for you extermina
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 14:33:50 +0000
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Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In <30E55EC4.1188@aimnet.com>, gmgraves@aimnet.com said:
> 
> >
> >Yeah, Les, interesting word anti-semite. Jews will lump themselves
> >together with Arabs gladly when it is a question of discrimination against
> >them. I don't use the word for that very reason. When I want to say that
> >I'm anti-Jew, I mean anti-Jew, not anti Arabs and Jews.
> 
> Boy, that's comforting.  Just a good ol' boy, right George?
> 
> >But now that any organized threat against them is gone, and now that they
> >are pretty much in control, the Jewish doctors are telling goyishe parents
> >NOT to circumcise their male babies. Now, only Jew boys will be
> >circumcised and they can wear it as a badge proudly once more.
> 
> You are beyond help.
> 
> --
> Gord McFee

Well, if you mean by that last statement that I am beyond the help of the
likes of you, I'll have to heartily agree. But then, who would want the 
help of a bunch of race-traitors and Jew-dupes?

George Graves


From gmgraves@aimnet.com Mon Jan  1 00:32:03 PST 1996
Article: 18298 of alt.revisionism
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From: George Graves 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bigots at odds (was: ANOTHER whopper for you exterminationists)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 14:45:03 +0000
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Jeffrey G. Brown wrote:
> 
> In article <30E55EC4.1188@aimnet.com>, George Graves 
> wrote:
> 
> > Ever notice how Jews like to hide when the going gets tough and then,
> > when times are good for 'em they want to stand proud of the rabble?
> > I'll give you an example. All during the thirties, when Germany
> > threatened to spread Nazi-ism all over Europe and America, Jewish
> > doctors started pushing circumcision for all males. If you were born
> > in a hospital in the U.S.A. after about 1934, you were circumcised.
> > Throughout the 40's, 50's, 60's 70's and 80's when a bunch of guys
> > were showering in the locker room, or in the barracks, you couldn't
> > tell the Jew-boy from the goy-boy - they were hiding.
> > But now that any organized threat against them is gone, and now
> > that they are pretty much in control, the Jewish doctors are telling
> > goyishe parents NOT to circumcise their male babies. Now, only Jew
> > boys will be circumcised and they can wear it as a badge proudly once
> > more.
> 
> I challenged Graves to provide his evidence for his assertion that "Jewish
> doctors started pushing circumcision for all males". His reply, sent via
> email, was:
> 
> > When I was a student, if you saw a guy who was uncircumcised, it was
> > because he was born at home, and he was the exception. Don't need any
> > proof, that was the way it was!
> 
> I believe this speaks for itself, so far as the reliability of Graves'
> claims are concerned. "Don't need any proof, that was the way it was!" is
> simply a variant of "It's true because I say so".
> 
> JGB

You are an idiot, and a dishonest one at that. I knew that you were going
to do this, I just wanted to watch and see which of my E-mail statements
you would take out of context so that you could prove your nefarious point.
You have no honor, you have no personal integrity, and you are in fact,
exactly what I thought you were: a stupid jew-brainwashed bigot who
would do or say anything to hold on to your little fairyland of 
hyperequality, and most of all win points against the evil racists you
encounter here. 
You know Brown, I come here because I enjoy a good debate. There are 
some people on this NG who provide it. You are not one of them. Your 
posts are wearisome, and as the buzzing of flys in my ears. 

George Graves



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