The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/giwer.matt/1995/giwer_controv_9502


 R_9502 
+++ r_950201 +++ --- *FIDO AUTO* ---
From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (7)
To:      All                                    28 Jan 95 04:31:00
Subject: 4 PLAYER 2B NAMED LATER                

 ##########  Original From: RICHARD DONOVAN
 # STOLEN #             To: ALL
 #  STUFF #    Date/Number: 01/22/95 - 0000218
 ##########             On: DOC'S - 0310 - Legal_Law
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

                Microsoft Clarifies Trademark Policies

REDMOND, Washington--January 4, 1995--In response to customer inquiries,

Microsoft today clarified the naming policy for Bob(tm), its new
software product designed for computer beginners.  Contrary to rumors,
Microsoft will not demand that all persons formerly named "Bob"
immediately select new first names.

    "I don't know where these rumors come from," commented Steve Balmer,
Microsoft Executive Vice President for Worldwide Sales and Support.
"It's ridiculous to think Microsoft would force people outside the
computer industry to change their names.  We won't, and our licensing
policies for people within the industry will be so reasonable that the
Justice Department could never question them."

    Balmer said employees of other computer companies will be given the
opportunity to select new names, and will also be offered a licensing
option allowing them to continue using their former names at very low
cost.

    The new licensing program, called Microsoft TrueName(tm), offers
persons who want to continue being known by the name Bob the option of
doing so, with the payment of a small monthly licensing fee and upon
signing a release form promising never to use OpenDoc.  As an added
bonus, Bob name licensees will also be authorized to display the Windows
95 logo on their bodies.

    Persons choosing not to license the Bob name will be given a 60-day
grace period during which they can select another related name.  "We're
being very lenient in our enforcement of the Bob trademark," said Bill
Newkom, Microsoft's Senior Vice President of Law and Corporate Affairs.
"People are still free to call themselves Robert, Robby, or even Rob.
Bobby however is derivative of Microsoft's trademark and obviously can't
be allowed."

    Microsoft also announced today that Bob(tm) Harbold, its Executive
Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, has become the first
Microsoft TrueName licensee and will have the Windows 95 logo tattooed
to his forehead.
                              <<<<>>>>

Who would have ever thought to thank Microsoft for anything?

... The sword of justice has no scabbard - Joseph de Maistre
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

---
 * RM 1.3 01261 * The Right of the Individual to be an Individual.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (21)
To:      Tony Miller                            28 Jan 95 22:38:00
Subject: ADAM AND EVE                           

TM>  MG>       Then you hold only descendants of A&E were given
TM>  MG>  dominion  over the earth.  How do we know which are and are
TM>  MG>  not those  descendants?

TM> That's easy.  The descendents of Adam and Eve are Italian.  :-)

     At least Adam was.  His descendant Adammo makes one of the 
best pizzas in town.  But Americans at least are confused over 
the three Eves and thus we give them their own sacred days, 
Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve, and All Hallow's Eve.


---
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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (22)
To:      Linda Terrell                          28 Jan 95 23:05:00
Subject: OJ PROSECUTION OPEN STATE              

LT> MG>      In its opening statement to the jury the prosecution
LT> MG> announced it have found a glove with five fingers and that OJ has
LT> MG> five fingers.

LT>     I imagine they will display this along with the mask to 
LT>  cover a face -- OJ has a face.  And the boot -- we think OJ 
LT>  has feet.  Not sure, they're always under a table.  Hmmm -- 
LT>  another clever defense ploy?

     I used to think I was poor because I had no shoes.  Then I 
saw OJ who had no feet.


---
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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (23)
To:      Joanne Harrison                        28 Jan 95 23:06:00
Subject: OJ PROSECUTION OPEN STATE              

JH> MG>                         OJ Update
JH> MG>      In its opening statement to the jury the prosecution 
JH> MG> announced it have found a glove with five fingers and that 
JH> MG> OJ has five fingers.

JH>  And the glove was black, and OJ is...

     Depends upon the cover of USN&WR or Time to get the shade 
right.

JH>   Seems to be becoming a cirus, doncha think? :)

     It is certainly one hell of a waste of air time.  Were it 
not bad enough that it pre-empts real entertainment locally but 
who really gives a damn.  Guilty or innocent, OJ is history yet 
it takes coverage time from political changes that, if they 
succeed, will be the first major change in this country in 60 
years.  

     I will grant coverage of that sticks with the issues of 
"fag" vice should a budget be balanced or not and stays at the 
pretended level of the media.

     But consider that if the day to day coverage of the actions 
of the new Congress were a fraction as detailed as the OJ case we 
really might have a serious national debate on the issues.  

     For OJ each network has a team of the best prosecutors and 
defense attorneys they can find that are not connected with the 
case.  For Congress they have political pundits.  

     Reverse the roles.

     For Congress the have the best constitutional and political 
scholars they can find that are not consultants to Congress and 
for OJ they have only Father's Rights and Spousal Abuse 
advocates.
     
     You tell me why it is arrayed this way.


---
 * RM 1.3 01261 * BATF Motto "Let God sort out the innocent!"

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+++ r_950216 +++ --- *FIDO AUTO* ---
From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (51)
To:      Gary Braswell                          13 Feb 95 01:22:00
Subject: I.Q. and the Bell Curve                

GB> AC> Maybe Evolution.  Living in such an easy place as Africa, 
GB> AC> they didn't need much brain power.  For example, they never 
GB> AC> needed to worry about eating and staying warm in winter.

GB>  An easy place as Africa? What about water? What about food 
GB>  during drougts? Floods during the rain seasons? The lack of 
GB>  arable land?
GB> 
GB>  Africa has been described as one of the harshest of the 
GB>  inhabited continents on this Earth and has been for some 
GB>  time.
GB> 
GB>  Is this more of your so called scholarly research? Bigotry 
GB>  is not only blind, but willfully ignorant as well.

     I am not interested in Cummins' crap but you have a very TV 
view of Africa.  The dumbest pre-humans survived there quite well 
for hundreds of thousands of years.  

     The only places it is "harsh" is what makes the news.  It is 
a big continent.  It is bigger than taking our coverage of our 
natural disasters as representative of the entire US.  


 -- SPEED 1.30 >01<: I never apologize.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (52)
To:      Thomas Banks                           13 Feb 95 01:31:00
Subject: Law And Order                          

TB> A little snippet of an article for those law and order types on CONTROV:

TB>   "Torrance, Calif. - Jerry Williams, 27, convicted of stealing a
TB>    slice of pizza from a group of children faces 25 years to life
TB>    in prison under the 'three strikes' law."

TB> Now this is really getting tough on crime.  B^)

     So release him and next time he kills for a whole pie.  Then 
bring the dead back to life.  The issue is the three crimes, the 
first and second included.  And do not forget, it was a free 
choice by the nerf brain to steal while presumptively knowing the 
law.  Or did he think, like you, that this crime was permitted 
because it was so trivial.


 -- SPEED 1.30 >01<: None of my opinions are humble.

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+++ r_950221 +++ --- *FIDO AUTO* ---
From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (27)
To:      Gary Braswell                          16 Feb 95 21:11:00
Subject: I.Q. and the Bell Curve                

GB> MG>      I am not interested in Cummins' crap but you have a 
GB> MG> very TV view of Africa.  The dumbest pre-humans survived 
GB> MG> there quite well for hundreds of thousands of years.

GB> The climate and has also changed since the Pre-humans were
GB> there.

     It has gotten drier and the wet areas have gotten smaller.  
That is about all.  Further, human evolution took place on the 
savannahs which were dry then and are larger now.

     I have a friend who was in Ghanna with State.  Across the 
road from her house a man set up housekeeping under a tree.  His 
possessions were all hung in the tree.  At night he slept in it.  
He eventually got himself a wife who lived with him under the 
tree.  She started a road side stand and the merchandise was kept 
in a tree.  They had a child and continued to live under the 
tree.  Look up the climate of Ghana.


 -- SPEED 1.30 >01<: Eat anything that doesn't eat you first.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (28)
To:      Gary Braswell                          16 Feb 95 21:23:00
Subject: Law And Order                          

GB> MG>TB>    "Torrance, Calif.  - Jerry Williams, 27, convicted of 
GB> MG>TB>     stealing a slice of pizza from a group of children faces 
GB> MG>TB>     25 years to life in prison under the 'three strikes' 
GB> MG>TB>     law."

GB> MG>TB> Now this is really getting tough on crime.  B^)

GB> MG>     So release him and next time he kills for a whole pie.  Then

GB>  This is hyperbole, Matt.  Most theives don't kill and 
GB>  someone stealing food is not stealing for a fix, or for 
GB>  luxuries.

     Of course it is hyperbole but stealing is a crime.  There is 
no any suggestion he was starving or even seriously hungry at the 
time of the theft.  And, yes, there are people who pride 
themselves on the ability to steal anything at any time.

GB> MG> bring the dead back to life.  The issue is the three crimes, 
GB> MG> the first and second included.  And do not forget, it was a 
GB> MG> free choice by the nerf brain to steal while presumptively 
GB> MG> knowing the law.  Or did he think, like you, that this crime 
GB> MG> was permitted because it was so trivial.

GB>  I guess if the people are willing to build the prisons, pay 
GB>  the guards and keep the system up for the millions of 
GB>  theives in the offing, more power to them.  Count me out.  I 
GB>  would rather have a killer or a rapist locked up than a pie 
GB>  thief.

     If people are willing to pay for it, fine.  It the law needs 
some fine tuning, fine.  However the burden is upon you to 
demonstrate that there are killers and rapists being turned loose 
to make room for this guy.  BTW:  What were his previous crimes?  
Rape and murder perhaps?


 -- SPEED 1.30 >01<: Hell, I am almost always right 99.7% of the time.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (44)
To:      Dandelion                              17 Feb 95 21:08:00
Subject: AUSCHWITZ                              

DD> >>--:[Quote]:-->
DD> >      Jews came to this country because it does not happen here.
DD> > There are some words on the Statue of Liberty to the effect that
DD> > this country takes in people like that.  Fine.  You are here.
DD> > You are safe now.  Try to get over your paranoia.  The war is
DD> > over.
DD> >>--:[Reply]:-->

DD> 

DD> Well said. :)

     Thank you.  I had expected a torrent of outraged responses 
from this one.  All but one comment so far has been favorable and 
that person is taking the usual, whining tack.


---
 * RM 1.3 01261 * One finger is all a real American needs.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (45)
To:      Bob Stump                              17 Feb 95 21:14:00
Subject: JEWS & HOLOCAUST                       

BS> BS> And don't forget the story of Noah and Ham, and Ham's 
BS> BS> alleged descentants, the Canaanites.

BS>  Old-time racists consider 'niggers' the descendants of Ham.
BS> 
BS>  OTOH, some folks consider THE JEWS as the descendants of 
BS>  Ham.  Jesus was a servant king, BTW.

     If you look at some of the evidence there is another and 
more likely possibility.  

     First consider there is zero evidence any Hebrews were ever 
in Egypt save the that the name Moses is Egyptian.  That is the 
extent of it.

     After they supposedly leave Egypt and before they get to the 
Middle East their name mysteriously changed to Israelites. 

     They attack the region from the East, the direction of 
Arabia, not from the West, the direction of Egypt.

     Consider the possibility they really were descendants of 
Ishmael, as Arabs are supposed to be, and their real name was the 
Ishmaelites.  

     So what else would it take?  Grafting on some local 
mythology to their basic religion.


---
 * RM 1.3 01261 * Jesus is coming!  Everybody preach something.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (46)
To:      Thomas Banks                           17 Feb 95 21:25:00
Subject: LAW AND ORDER                          

TB> MG>      So release him and next time he kills for a whole pie.  
TB> MG> Then bring the dead back to life.  The issue is the three 
TB> MG> crimes, the first and second included.  And do not forget, 
TB> MG> it was a free choice by the nerf brain to steal while 
TB> MG> presumptively knowing the law.  Or did he think, like you, 
TB> MG> that this crime was permitted because it was so trivial.

TB>  Virginia just contracted with Texas, at a cost of $16,000 a 
TB>  head per year, to warehouse some prisoners overcrowding its 
TB>  jails.  Using that figure (which seems low to me) at 25 
TB>  years, that's nearly $400,000 (not including legal costs) 
TB>  in tax money flushed down the toilet to punish a guy for 
TB>  stealing a slice of pizza (est.  retail price $1.50).  Now 
TB>  to you, I'm sure this makes perfect sense.  Your paranoia 
TB>  has you assuming that this guy is some kind of hardened 
TB>  felon ready to murder for the entire pie.  But it seems to 
TB>  me that you could send that "nerf brain" to college (even 
TB>  Harvard) or trade school for a mere fraction of that 
TB>  including the cost of a part-time tutor and parole officer 
TB>  to ensure "nerf brain" makes it through.

     OK, fine.  Post his criminal history and we can see just 
what kind of person we are dealing with.  I strongly doubt the 
new law would jail someone for life for three consecutive slice 
stealings.

TB>  But that wouldn't satisfy your lust for vengeance.  
TB>  Therefore, we shift geers to an unproductive solution.  
TB>  Given the high rates of repeat offenders, it would seem 
TB>  that warehousing people in jails is no deterrent to crime 
TB>  and may even increase the chances that criminals return to 
TB>  a life of crime upon release.

     Perhaps the law needs some fine tuning.  When I first heard 
of it, it applied to felonies only and that is still my 
understanding.  $1.50 is a misdemeanor.  Perhaps there is a 
felony not being mentioned in this story?  Such as parole 
violation?

TB>  Violent offenders I can understand warehousing.  I know of 
TB>  no way to rehabilitate a murderer or rapist.  But it is a 
TB>  joke in this case.

     That is why I want to hear the rest of the circumstances 
around this case.  Those who were against the proposition were 
not above exaggeration and mis-statement when it was being 
debated.  I doubt they have changed their approach.


---
 * RM 1.3 01261 * The only god is all a real American needs.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (47)
To:      All                                    17 Feb 95 21:38:00
Subject: ORIGIN OF HUMAN RIGHTS                 

                   The Origin of Human Rights
                               by
                           Matt Giwer (c) 1995 <2/17>

     We hold that our rights are not granted by our government or
by any agency.  The US Constitution holds we are endowed by our
Creator with specific rights.  That wasn't too bad a guess in
those days.
     Today we can do better.  It is not that we are greater
thinkers than the founders.  Rather it is that we have the
benefit of two centuries of science, particularly anthropology
and animal behavior.  Our "rights" are what any social animal
enjoys under ideal conditions within its own social group.
     Every nature show on TV on social animals, lions,
chimpanzees, even ants, makes the obligatory point of the
similarity to human society.  And there the origin of our rights
is staring us in the face.  What we consider rights is the
necessary behavior of social animals.  Where do we get freedom of
speech?  Did you ever see even the noisiest chimp being told to
shut up?
     Facetious of course but noises in a social group are
pervasive if the species can make noises.  But we have to go into
anthropology, human origins, to get to most of our rights as they
are a bit too advanced to be easily seen in animal terms.
     Do we have the right to keep and bear arms?  We have every
evidence going back as far as Australopithecus that pre-humans
made and used weapons not only for hunting but upon each other.
But if we observe the behavior of other social species we see
aggression within a group to be rare but aggression between groups
to be an equal opportunity activity for all members of the group.
This same as we see violent crime and war in our own societies.
     Another intra-group characteristic is that we rarely
conceive of enforcing our laws within another society (which is
what making our drug laws extend outside our borders so
exceptional.)  Or in primitive cultures, social customs are
unique are not imposed upon other groups but we do expect "when
in Rome do as the Romans do" from visitors and as guests.
     I can go through most of the Bill Of Rights and find
parallels that are common in most primitive cultures.  And in
these primitive cultures and in our knowledge of pre-humans no
one suggests they had a "government" to give them rights that are
like what we have today.  Nor, prior to Neanderthal nor Cro-Magnon
do we suppose they had a god to believe endowed them with these
rights.  (And, of course if they did, it was a false god but that
is another article.)
     If we look across modern and primitive cultures we find
varying taboos upon particular types of speech.  If we were to
add all the taboos together there would still be a lot to talk
about.  If we create a culture such as ours where the only
prohibitions are based upon other issues such as using speech to
deliberately and directly harm others (shouting fire in a crowded
theater, willful fraud, perjury) we can see that free speech is a
common characteristic of all cultures save for those with
particular taboos against particular forms of speech.
     There are greater similarities than something so human as
speech.  It may be impossible to find a society where theft or
murder is not prohibited.  And equally difficult to find a
society where there is not some form of trial and punishment.
The very idea of an unfair trial rankles us save as individuals
we feel there should be exceptions for some people and for some
types of crimes.  That we have created an ideal society, taking
out all of the exceptions and making trials fair to everyone.
That we know we still have and trying to find a solution to the
disparity between OJ's and the Pauper's trial is not unique to
the US but rather a fact of life that our human concept fair does
not appear to be able to alter.
     Our rights come from our nature as both a social species and
from our unique human ancestry.  We were not endowed with them
one fine afternoon but rather we spent many hundreds of thousands
on to millions of years evolving them.  We can see similarities
to them in other social species, in primitive tribes and across
cultures today.  This is the way we are.  We have simply
idealized these rights in the US and most of that idealization is
quite recent.  And most of this idealization is quite recent.
     In the 1870s or 1880s there was a Supreme Court decision
holding that the mayor of a township had as much authority over
the speech permitted in his township as did a man in his own
home. This was over some issue of art.  It was not until the late
1940s that the same court decided it knew pornography when it saw
it and barely ten years ago that it discovered the "out" of
community standards determining the difference between art and
pornography.
     This means the near absolute "rights" we view as having
today should not be taken as having existed in concept from the
beginning of the country.  When we get down to specifics we have
to be much more narrow in our concepts.  As always, it is easy to
miss the forest for the trees.
     Our rights are the recognition of our intrinsic nature that
took hundreds of thousands of years to develop.  They came from
something much more interesting than a god.  Our rights have a
basis in the entire world we live in and are part of it.  They
are certainly not the granted by any government.

                            * * * * *

        Further distribution is encouraged by the author.

    P.O. Box 82541, Tampa, Florida, 33682-2541, Bus. 813-969-0362



---
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+++ r_950223 +++ --- *FIDO AUTO* ---
From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (15)
To:      Chris Walden                           18 Feb 95 20:28:00
Subject: AUSCHWITZ                              

CW>  Ah, Mr. Giwer, just wait until we get a holocost stamp.

     Shhhh.  You'll give them ideas.

CW>  Strongest lobby in the nation: Anti-Defamation League.

     And under criminal investigation or even under indictment if 
I remember the story correctly.

CW>   And let's not forget Newt's choice for House Historian, 
CW>   and the stink that was raised.  Now granted, one doesn't 
CW>   have to agree with Nazi Germany, but doesn't it make sense 
CW>   to anyone with any sort of relative I.Q.  that pointing out 
CW>   the Nazi mindset in detail would further prevent it from 
CW>   ever becoming a real threat over here?  Teaching "Nazi 
CW>   BAD, Jews GOOD" doesn't really enable one's mind to work 
CW>   at it's full potential.

     Nor does calling anyone who does making worshipping the 
holocaust a litmus test of antisemitism.  Nor does equating 
anyone who does not pass that test with flying colors with the 
Nazis or the Klan.  There is no religion or members thereof nor 
event in the history of that is above discussion.  


---
 * RM 1.3 01261 * Salvation wanted.  False gods need not apply.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (16)
To:      Kenneth Weiss                          18 Feb 95 20:41:00
Subject: AUSCHWITZ                              

KW> MG>      It is not all that much save for the publicity and 
             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KW> MG> dramatization.  The story has gone into mythos and legend.  
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

KW>  While it's true that Jews aren't the only group of people 
KW>  to suffer losses in the millions, It's the most well known 
KW>  case of attempted genocide the world is aware of on a 
KW>  global level.  

     That is what I said.

Speaking as a Jew, I want no special 
KW>  recognition for what my people have suffered, I just want 
KW>  to remind people that it *can* happen again, and it may be 
KW>  the group they are connected to the next time, not the 
KW>  Jews.  

     Consider the reminder as having been made.  It is hardly 
necessary.  We get a real life reminder on the evening news every 
year or two.  And the reminding doesn't appear to have any effect 
upon the frequency of it.  That makes it a waste of time.

When hard times strike, people, being the sheep that 
KW>  they are, like to find a nice scapegoat to vent their 
KW>  frustrations upon.

     This is a revelation?  The holocaust was just one example 
out of many.


---
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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (17)
To:      Linda Terrell                          19 Feb 95 00:46:00
Subject: SAVE WOLVES!                           

LT>       Cites for this please.   Healthy wolves do NOT attack 
LT>  human beings.  

     So all wolves in the wild are healthy?  So they should all 
get Medicaid?  What makes you think they would use it?

We do not taste very good becuase WE are 
LT>  meat eaters.  Meat eaters rarely eat meat eaters unless 
LT>  they are desperate.

     It is quite interesting that you would know about such 
tastes.  Which predator told you this?  


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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (18)
To:      Angus Mcnew                            19 Feb 95 17:10:00
Subject: CHRISTIAN HISTORY MONTH                

      November:       Semitic Heritage Month **

AM>  **  All Semitic groups, Islamic/Jewish/Christian can 
AM>  celebrate their racial heritage here, or can focus on their 
AM>  unique religious heritage.  Holy Wars could either be 
AM>  suspended for this month, or started, depending on how the 
AM>  rules are drawn up.

     With are bombing and retaliatory strikes.  Too close to 
Christmas for that.  Should be July or August when it is hot and 
people are more violent.


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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (19)
To:      Ron Rompen                             20 Feb 95 00:14:00
Subject: KILLER WOLVES!                         

RR>  As I mentioned previously, do a little research into 
RR>  wolves.  They do NOT enter homes.......and usually tend to 
RR>  stay away from men altogether (can't imagine why!).  Yes, it 
RR>  has happened that a pack of wolves has taken down a man 
RR>  (forget children.....a pack of wolves can take down 
RR>  anything smaller than a blue whale!), but that has been 
RR>  during exceptionally hard winters, when there is none of 
RR>  their 'normal' feed.

     So in exceptionally bad winters for wolves people have to 
stay indoors are risk being eaten.  I can see that -- from a wolf 
hugger.  People are banning second hand smoke on less risk than 
that.

RR>  It is people like you, and narrow-minded attitudes like 
RR>  that that have resulted in the extinction/near extinction 
RR>  of so many animal species throughout the world.  Do you know 
RR>  what role wolves play in control of the deer population? 

     Deer hunters have replaced them where wolves no longer 
exist.  Who gives a damn?

RR>  And how does this affect corn production throughout the 
RR>  Mid-West? And how does this affect gasoline prices next 
RR>  summer?

     We need cheaper hunting licenses.


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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (20)
To:      Thomas Banks                           20 Feb 95 00:28:00
Subject: LIBERTARIANISM                         

TB>  Just sending money unhindered to the states is silly.  It 
TB>  is a selective tax rebate to localities.  Taxpayers send it 
TB>  to Washington and Washington selectively sends it back.  
TB>  Note, I wasn't in favor of the original crime bill either.  
TB>  Crime is a local matter and should be funded locally.

     Actually it is no sillier than taking it from the citizens 
of the states unhindered.  It simply points out that laundering 
money through Washington is an essentially unneeded exercise.

TB>  I don't think it is a coincidence that the majority of 
TB>  governors in the nation are Republicans.  This is just a 
TB>  political payoff for their support and to improve their 
TB>  political fortunes.

     Of course it is not a coincidence.  It is part of the same 
landslide.   It coincided for a reason rather than a chance.


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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (28)
To:      All                                    20 Feb 95 15:36:00
Subject: RUMORS OF WAR                          

                          Rumors of War
                               by
                           Matt Giwer (c) 1995 

     The latest rumor, probably unfounded is that the reason the
BATF has canceled all leave for it members for the end of March
is that raids are planned on the state citizen militias.  I have
said there was no reason to provoke a confrontation with the
government as the government would cause the provocation.
If this is true, it will be one such provocation.
     It is clear that these militias have broken no laws.  Yet,
presumably, Waco style, shoot first raids are planned for them.
Yes, this rogue agency is most likely planning to do it again.
And why should they not?  They got away with it in Waco.
     This is how just revolutions begin, not by deliberate
actions of revolutionaries, but by the government giving the
citizenry cause to resist the government.  The colonials did not
start attempting to obtain independence.  They started trying to
correct what they perceived as injustice.  The revolution was
precipitated by the over-reactions of the government.
     And if these raids should occur they will indeed be an
over-reaction.  If in fact there are state laws against citizen
militias then it is up to the states to enforce those laws.  If
the states feel their police are incapable of enforcing those
laws then there are the state national guards.
     The only pretext for the BATF is the reasonable suspicion,
duly sworn before a magistrate or judge, that individual militia
members have weapons that are in violation of federal law.  This
is something that was not done in Waco in 1992 in that it omitted
any reference to a reasonable suspicion of illegal weapons.
     As the BATF has never demonstrated an interest in peaceful
warrant service it is guaranteed that people are going to die
should raids occur.  Given the lessons of Waco, the response to
the BATF will be to fight to the death rather than die by fire.
It will be surprising if many "hostage" situations do not arise
again.
     The difference this time is that there are more present
militia than there are BATF agents.  There are ten times more
now wavering on the edge of joining a militia, thinking things
are not bad enough yet.  Should these raids occur, they will be
decided.
     At that point the question will be if those wavering will
come to the aid of the besieged and arrested.  Of course the
government would respond and most likely win by sending in
regular troops.  The consequences of this would be profound.
     This would have to lead to serious loss of life, resulting
in family and friends turning against the government.  It will
have to result in a confiscation of guns with the expected house
to house searches under the authority of one or more executive
orders.  Martial law will certainly be declared in some places if
not entire states.
     And in the worst case, why?  Because the just might really
be some people with illegal weapons that would be directed
towards exactly this kind of government action.  
     Of course this is all speculation.  It is unlikely the BATF
is planning raids on these militias.  It is most likely the
cancellation of leave is a rumor.
     I write to point out how easy it is for the government to
provoke a revolution.  These events I hypothesize probably would
not cause a revolution in themselves.  But rather than causing
fear and discouraging the future formation of militias it would
cause larger ones to be formed underground.
     It is this kind of fatal mis-reading of the reaction of a
free people that is the one constant government failing.  This is
not surprising.  When all a government has are military and
paramilitary agencies everyone looks like an enemy.
     Additionally governments do not believe they can permit the
existence of any internal organization that might potentially be
a threat.  But in responding to the public non-threats, after all
are public, they create an underground threat that learns from
the mistakes of the previous being uncovered and become
increasingly hard to find.  At some point the underground groups
begin initiating action instead of defending themselves.  Thus
the revolution is under way all because of the violent actions of
the government.
     Can Congress stop it?  No.  It is not the Executive Branch.
     Can Congress afford to be seen as siding with people who
will be portrayed as revolutionaries?  No.
     Can the government negotiate with underground organizations?
No.  It has not diplomatic corp much less the kind of
organization needed.  And governments do not negotiate unless
they have to do so in any event.
     So the revolution need not start with another Waco which is
rather unlikely.  The revolution can start with its actions
against the response to Waco.  Hang in there folks.  If these are
not rumors then we are in for a very interesting next few years.

                            * * * * *

        Further distribution is encouraged by the author.

    P.O. Box 82541, Tampa, Florida, 33682-2541, Bus. 813-969-0362



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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (90)
To:      Dean Nusholtz                          21 Feb 95 00:21:00
Subject: BELL CURVE                             

DN>  Recent technological developments made it possible to 
DN>  replace a large portion of the current bottom quintile on 
DN>  the IQ scale with machines, leaving 10% of the population 
DN>  'out of the loop.' What would you do?

     You haven't gotten any brighter over the months.  A quintile 
is 1/5th or 20%.

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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (91)
To:      Natalie Connolly                       21 Feb 95 00:24:00
Subject: I.Q. AND THE BELL CURVE                

NC>  Great.  Proves my point.  Environment is the problem, not 
NC>  pigmentation.  Poverty is the problem, not melanin.

     As anyone who has read the book would know, environment was 
NEVER demonstrated in any study to be a factor rather there was 
only the claim of it based upon superficial reading of serious 
studies.  In fact, environment has been discredited as a 
significant cause by all serious studies.


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From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (92)
To:      Alan Hess                              21 Feb 95 00:27:00
Subject: JEW BAITING                            

AH>  BS>  & I went on to document, from the Bible, that the OT Jews 
AH>  BS>  were nazi genociders.

AH>  Yes, there's plenty of unnecessary killing by Jews in the 
AH>  OT.  I don't condone it now, and I wouldn't condone it 
AH>  then.  *adh*

     Which means you do not support any territorial claim by Jews 
in the middle east, correct?


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