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Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/giwer.matt/1994/giwer_controv_9401


 R_9401 
+++ r_940131 +++ --- *FIDO AUTO* ---
From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (1374)
To:      All                                    16 Jan 94 21:05:10
Subject: Infrared, the now told st              

 *********** Original       To: ALL
 * SILICON *      was       By: MATT GIWER
 *  DUPE   *   posted:      On: MERCOPUS
 ***********              Conf: 0025 - Politics-F
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

                   Infrared, the Now Told Story
                               by
                           Matt Giwer  (c) 1994

     "Waco:  The Untold Story" was shown on Prime Time Live shown 
on Thursday, 13 January 1994.  During that program there were 
three photos quickly flashed on the screen.  They were described 
as infrared photos taken by the government of three separated hot 
spots thus proving the Branch Davidians started the fires.
     There are problems with this.  
     The pictures were not on screen long enough for viewers to 
verify there were even hotspots.  The pictures did not appear to 
have a date/time group on them and as such would certainly not be 
admissible as evidence in court.  One has to ask upon what 
grounds we are to accept these pictures.
     The announcement that the fire was started by the people 
inside was made from Washington while the fire was still burning; 
about one half hour into the fire.  This was reported on CNN 
overlaying the live shots of the fire.  How did Washington know 
of the results and analysis of these pictures and prepare a press 
release within 30 minutes?
     We are also asked to believe there was a plane directly 
overhead and taking pictures exactly at the time the unexpected 
fire started.  Excuse me.  The three pictures showing we know not 
what were from the same perspective, so it must have been a 
helicopter.  
     The perspective was also from overhead rather from a slant 
angle so it was not a circling plane.  It would have been a 
stroke of blind luck to have that plane exactly overhead at 
exactly the right time doing exactly the right thing.  
     Let us look at a few alternatives.  It really was a 
helicopter rather than a plane as we were told on Nightline.  We 
can forgive a TV production crew that gaff.  
     We are still left with three still photos at exactly the 
right moment.  Perhaps they are out takes from a film.  That we 
can not forgive in a TV production crew, showing stills instead 
of a film clip.  
     We note further we have films from every network showing the 
first starting in exactly one place with the only question being 
how it spread so quickly.  The government now purports to tell us 
it started in three places at once.  It is noted the government 
has still show us one thing inconsistant with a the Branch 
Davidian statement that the tanks knocked over kerosene lamps.
     We know they were using bales of hay to block the windows 
from the light and noise at night.  We know in that dry part of 
the country that any wooden structure goes up like tinder even 
without dry hay to help spread the fire.
     Now we bring up the second ABC interview with the arson 
investigator where he affirmed his first interview of one fire 
starting point and added there were at least three, "in fact so 
many" before he refused further comment.
     There is no scenario putting these facts together save the 
story of the fire starting was prepared before the fire started.  
The pictures if they show anything are not inconsistant with the 
tanks knocking over kerosene lanterns.  
     We have a more serious problem explaining why pictures would 
happen to show three hot spots in the first place.  Infrared is 
merely heat, the same heat you feel in front of a high wattage 
lamp.  The only way to get an infrared image would be for the 
fires to have been started on the top floors, either second or 
third depending upon the part of the structure.
     This coincides with the films we have seen of the first 
smoke and fire coming from a second story window.  I am hard 
pressed to understand why people intending to burn themselves 
alive would start fires on the second floor.  However to show 
spots rather than a fire they would have had to burn through the 
ceiling of that second floor and started heating the roof itself.
     Perhaps only the first and largest was on the second floor.  
Perhaps but then those on the first floor would not show up on 
infrared as spots.  The fire would have to burn through the 
ceiling of the first floor, through the ceiling of the second 
floor, perhaps the ceiling of the third floor to directly heat 
the roof for there to be a hot spot there.  Before that would 
happen and under the conditions of weather and construction there 
would have been fire from at least three windows not just one.
     The timing of these fires is extraordinary.  Infrared is not 
X-rays.  The only way to show three hot spots is to have the 
undersides of the roofs at those points heating evenly at the 
same time.  Were there a burn through there would be a bloom on 
the picture no one could miss and processing would be required to 
show the rest.  It is the difference between a few hundred and a 
few thousand degrees; a flashlight and a searchlight.  It boggles 
the mind to believe three widely separated people could possibly 
have coordinated their fires such that they would NOT burn 
through but equally heat the roof at three distinct places.
     There is no evidence of three starting points for the fire 
that could possibly corroborate infrared photos of three hot 
spots unless ... and that unless is that the fires were all 
started in rooms on the highest floor of the building.  Again, 
this does not sound like people trying to burn themselves alive.  
Even in the most trivial scenario of self immolation it would be 
expected a fire would be started in front of every first floor 
door at least and window if possible.
     On top of this we have a common agreement by the government 
and the Branch Davidians that the stairwells had been collapsed 
by the tanks, the only difference of opinion is whether 
deliberately or incidentally.  Now we have to imagine people 
without the help of stairs getting to the highest floors to start 
these fires and then staying there or coming back down to await 
the fire reaching them.
     To my way of thinking, even the most insane people who might 
start such a fire would have second thoughts when the heat starts 
building up as the actual fire proceeds.  We have films of only 
one person leaving from a second floor window but that person 
appears to be in no hurry about leaving as he jumps down and 
slowly walks away.
     We have a different problem with those who decided to wait 
until the fire burned down to them.  The story goes that they 
all, including Koresh himself, shot each other in order to 
prevent each other from escaping.  Here we have at least three 
people starting three fires out of maybe 40 armed adults and then 
enough more discipline people to kill the others and then 
themselves.  Schwarzeneggar may be able to do such things but in 
reality we are talking no small group capable of pulling off such 
a thing.  We have to be thinking of at least ten people to kill 
the other thirty armed adults to have a chance of one of the ten 
being the last standing to kill himself.  
     Now for all this planning and organization to accomplish 
this we are offered three words from Koresh, in writing not tape, 
that could apply to anything from a cigarette to a lamp, to 
suggest Koresh ordered it all to happen.  I would sort of expect 
at least one "don't kill me" to be produced by the government.  
And to top it all we must remember Koresh shot himself to prevent 
himself from escaping.
     The more we learn about this incident the less reasonable it 
becomes.  When it was first assumed the claimed infrared pictures 
were from ground level it was easy to point out that was flat out 
impossible based solely upon physics.  Now we have a situation 
possible in physics but ornery as hell in explaining how 
something I would expect Hollywood special effects experts would 
have difficulty producing for infrared film without faking it.
     I suggest fake is the operative word for these pictures.


---
 * RM 1.2 01261 * "OK punks, do you feel lucky?" -- Clin?
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)



From:    Matt Giwer                             Area: Controv - (1375)
To:      Ann Ross                               16 Jan 94 16:07:10
Subject: The Linda Thompson Tape                

AR> MG>      I have no idea what you are talking about.  I have said
AR> MG> the gov was lying from the second day after the attack.

AR> MG>     Would you like to expand?

AR>          You have always had little substance for your
AR>          Enquirer-types of "expansions" and they are just
AR>          begining to catch up with you.  I have no doubt
AR>          there were government lies, but no greater than you
AR>          have manufactured as well.  You as a Truth Source
AR>          will never exist.

     You mean like the Texas Ranger court testimony that no
illegal weapons were recovered from the ashes?  That is one of
the things I have been saying all along.  Do you have any other
examples?


---
 * RM 1.2 01261 * SWM g-d in search of willing g|ddess.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)





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