The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/f/finsten.laura/1996/finsten.1196


From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  1 10:20:57 PST 1996
Article: 48168 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: White MEN created everything
Date: 31 Oct 1996 20:44:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <555kd2$2bs@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...


>>>>7) You cannot learn about the nazi occupation without also learning about the
>>>>propaganda they threw all over the place.

>>>Or at least their interpretation.

>>The Nazis' "interpretation" of what?  

>The interpretation given in the aftermath, duh.

The Nazis' interpretation of the interpretation given in the aftermath, duh???

[...]

>I have read and heard of the NAZI ideal in liberal oriented books, 
>"Finsten."  What I have read of Mein Kampf doesn't list blond, blue eyed
>types as ideal (I haven't read it all).  Using the blond, blue-eyed type
>is not a NAZI invention, advertisers to this day still use the blond, blue-
>eyed type for products concerning honesty, health, and White dominated
>items or activities.  Therefore the posters by themselves aren't worth
>a lot, except to bigotted PC liberals.

You're right, the posters by themselves aren't that informative.  But they
are a part of Nazi racist rhetoric which, when examined in its totality, is
highly informative.

>What were the criteria for joining the SS, I do believe not all of them
>were blond, blue-eyed.

>AND we have Hitler himself.  He is not a "blond, blue-eyed Aryan."

Yes, isn't that ironic?

>>>Uh huh.  The racialism back then has only been refuted by PC bigots, it
>>>still stands.  Gould's work is crap, and the so called argument "There

>>Exactly what parts of Gould's work are "crap", in your estimation, and why?

>I have gone into this before, and there are plenty of people recently that
>have discussed Gould, I do not need to divulge.

In other words, you are asserting that Gould's work is "crap", but refusing
to support your assertion by identifying precisely which of his analyses 
and interpretations are, in your estimation faulty and explaining your reasons
for considering them flawed.  What else is new.  

>>>is more diversity within a race than between races" is completely obvious
>>>when you realize how PC bigots define the races.  The Jew Boas supposedly
>>>disproved skull shapes, yet they remain the Police pathologist's main
>>>stay in identifying race in criminal or victim.

>>Boas did not "disprove" skull shapes.  Boas demonstrated that the children
>>of immigrants to North American often had skulls that were very different 
>>in shape from the skulls of their parents.  Shall we talk about "skull shapes"
>>again?  Do you know what a Gaussian distribution is, by the way?

>A 2% variation in the skulls is all the Jew proved.  He is the founder of
>the modern movement (perhaps incidental) that rejects skull shapes in 
>racial determination.

Like I said, Boas demonstrated that the children of immigrants to North American
often had skulls that were very different in shape from the skulls of their
parents.  Or different enough in shape to call into the question the heritability
of whatever it is the cephalic index measures.

>Gaussian distribution:[definition deleted]
>Satisfactory answer?

Yes.  Now, given that cranial index values form a Gaussian distribution, can
you explain the theoretical justification for arbitrarily breaking that
distribution at the points that are used to distinguish the major cranial
form categories?

>>Do provide your source for the claim that "skull shapes... remain the Police
>>pathologist's main stay (sic) in identifying race...".

>There is always the book by J. Marks, except that you don't like me quoting
>him for some strange reason.

I like Marks' book.  I wish you'd read it (that means with comprehension),
rather than just looking at the tables.  The text accompanying the table
you are so found of it very interesting.

>>Interesting that you think Boas' religion/ethnicity pertinent.

>And why shouldn't I?

I just mentioned that to underscore your antisemitism.

>>>1. There are two main hallmarks of PC:  One is sexualism, the other is 
>>>racialism.  Depending on the situation it depends which one outranks the 
>>>other.

>>>2. You have shown repeatedly that you loathe racialism, the very fact you
>>>are here arguing with racialists is ample proof.  If it were a non issue
>>>then you wouldn't bother being here.                           ^^^^^^^^^

>>You get it, Christopher.  In Ourobouros' cosy little world, anyone who is
>>not racist is PC.  Any science that does not support racist claims is PC.
>>One does not need to demonstrate that the science is incorrect.  It is, by
>>definition, both PC and therefore incorrect!!  Isn't that handy!  No need
>>for analysis, fact, or any of that stuff that might just confuse you.

>Crap.  Only in your twisted demented understanding of the world could you
>get that interpretation.  There are plenty of people who despise PC, but
>are not racialist either.  To them racialism is a non-issue, they can take
>it or leave it.  Why don't you take a course in English comprehension,
>"Finsten"?

Then perhaps you could tell me why you dismiss every piece of scientific
evidence that does not support your racist views as "PC".  And I do mean
dismiss.  Look at your brilliant analysis of Gould's arguments.  So persuasive.
You wave your hand, proclaim something false because it is PC.  You have yet
to present a coherent analysis of any science you don't like which demonstrates 
that the data, the analysis or the reasoning and hence the conclusions are
faulty.  Your prejudice is your sole basis for "evaluation".  Just look at
the way you refer to a table in Marks' book and ignore his critical commentary
on it!  Twit!!




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  1 10:20:59 PST 1996
Article: 48169 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Unchanging Polynesians ("Finsten") -- repost
Date: 31 Oct 1996 20:47:21 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <5557lj$nm7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...

[...]

>>So Chinese are just flocking to this alleged restaurant and ordering up the
>>human flesh, preferring it to pork or chicken?
>>
>I would assume if there is one, there is more.  Afterall, parents are
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>knocking the head of their daughters all over China.


Well you would, wouldn't you.  Would you also assume that if one
Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet served up a rat in a bucket with
fries that not only every bucket from that outlet but every
bucket from every KFC worldwide served rat?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  1 11:02:25 PST 1996
Article: 42880 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Subject: Re: The National Alliance Two-Step: Communism & Jews
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>
>Ken McVay OBC wrote:

[...]

>     I have been informed that that OBC you keep putting there is some
>sort of brag about how smart you are?   Pathetic!


It sounds like your informant is misinformed.  It is the Order of British
Columbia, an honour bestowed by the Lieutenant Governor of British
Columbia for outstanding social contributions.

Pathetic is your coy game about your own academic history.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 09:31:07 PST 1996
Article: 78198 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 1 Nov 1996 17:29:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>AgamemnoN wrote:

>> No, he thinks the magic letters 'OBC' will fill us with awe. How can
>> we compete against such a highly respected and honoured man?!?
>> 
>> Whats that stand for - Order of the British Crown???  Isn't  this the
>> same Crown that sent convicts to Australia for stealing loaves of
>> bread and then killed heaps of Aborigines??? Yup - sure is.

Uh no, Peter, OBC stands for Order of British Columbia.  British
Columbia is a province in Canada.


>    When people put PhD or OBC or "Colonel" on the net, they are more to
>be pitied htan censured.  They can't argue their case, so they put up
>their credentials.

Gee, Mr. Whit, that must be why you made it widely known in May, when
someone flamed you on your lousy writing, that you are a PhD.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 09:31:07 PST 1996
Article: 78199 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The ZOG Homepage On Line
Date: 29 Oct 1996 17:21:40 GMT
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>Yeah, right, claim innocence.  I know all about those new new Guccis
                                                               ^^^^^^
>and the BMWs.

You've seen my Emma Goldman dancing shoes?!?!?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 09:31:08 PST 1996
Article: 78220 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ZOG Brief #1-Introduction
Date: 1 Nov 1996 21:08:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>In article <55ar2a$22b@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU>, 
>rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) demanded:

>>Who is in charge of producing Kosher foil?  Can we sneak it into the
>>goyim foil stockpile?

[...]

>I have recommended that Tampa Twoface be given control over
>the GFS while Finsten is retrained. (At least we know nothing
>of substance can possibly happen that way.)

Retrained?????  But I'm so creative with foil....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 10:20:09 PST 1996
Article: 34771 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Spanish is an Aryan language
Date: 1 Nov 1996 18:37:21 GMT
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"Rad"  wrote:
>The jew controlled media likes to promote Spanish as if it represents the
>Third World in America. But Spanish is an Aryan language just as English,
>French and German are. The problem with Spanish is the fucking Indian
>wetbacks who speak it, not the language itself. Though modern
>Mediterraneans are more backward than their northern European counterparts
>these days, at one time they were Aryan whites.

Omigosh, you mean languages have "races", too?  You mean all those non-Airyen
Latin American folks can't possibly have any right to speak Spanish because
they don't have the right genes?!?!  What a travesty!  Someone call 911. I
want to report a robbery - they're stealing the Airyen language, officer!
They have no right!!  It's ours!  How dare they!



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 11:27:30 PST 1996
Article: 43189 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Sat, 2 Nov 96 19:03:03 GMT
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ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:
>
>In article <846881310$849@atype.com>, smaceach@polar.Bowdoin.EDU (Scott
>MacEachern) writes:
>
>>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>
>>>absolutely imperative that a programme of selective breeding and eugenics
>>>be implemented.  In order to achieve a "stable White genotype"!!!!
>>>Who do you think will provide the DNA for the prototype?  Brian?  Kevin
>>>Strom?  William Pierce the bossman? 

>>Christ, Laura, this could be the end of the whole human race! None of
>>the Nazis would ever get a date, and the rest of us would die
>>laughing.

Yeah, but they wouldn't have to worry any more about deciding what 
diversity is "good" and what is "bad", would they.  Give their little
minds a rest.

>uh, Laura, Scott, uh, I hate to ruin your lunch, but just think what the
>*female* clones would look like...er, maybe not...

Ew yuk.  Well, maybe not. Maybe they're pretty guys...



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 14:26:09 PST 1996
Article: 78281 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 2 Nov 1996 14:22:02 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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References: <54k1js$30t8$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54k1js$30t8$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <55867v$hcf@access5.digex.net> <55bvqt$1de6$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <55867v$hcf@access5.digex.net> - mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael
>P. Stein)30 Oct 1996 13:19:43 -0500 writes:

>:>In article <54k1js$30t8$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>,
>:>Gord McFee  wrote:
>:>>I post the e-mail below that Mr. Blackmore sent me in answer to my posting the
>:>>other day.

>:>>I own about 40-65 thousand books.  I would think you could appreciate
>:>>whether I can't find a particular source upon demand.

[...]

>Now Mike, how could you doubt Mr. Blackmore?  Have you thought of the
>possibility that he is 250 years old?

[...]

>He keeps them in his attic, if memory serves.

Well now we know why he disappeared.  His roof collapsed under the weight
of several tons of books.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 14:30:24 PST 1996
Article: 34823 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 16:00:04 GMT
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Mr. Whitaker has now begun to do what Matt Giwer was doing several
months ago on alt.revisionism.  Rather than respond to posts, he 
merely attaches the same (or in Giwer's case one from a limited menu)
mantra to everything directed at him.  I suggest that we just leave
Mr. Whitaker to play with himself.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 14:31:18 PST 1996
Article: 48277 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 16:00:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Mr. Whitaker has now begun to do what Matt Giwer was doing several
months ago on alt.revisionism.  Rather than respond to posts, he 
merely attaches the same (or in Giwer's case one from a limited menu)
mantra to everything directed at him.  I suggest that we just leave
Mr. Whitaker to play with himself.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 16:37:49 PST 1996
Article: 55468 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 16:00:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com>
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Mr. Whitaker has now begun to do what Matt Giwer was doing several
months ago on alt.revisionism.  Rather than respond to posts, he 
merely attaches the same (or in Giwer's case one from a limited menu)
mantra to everything directed at him.  I suggest that we just leave
Mr. Whitaker to play with himself.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  2 23:15:30 PST 1996
Article: 78311 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
Date: 2 Nov 1996 14:32:54 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <55fm2m$lv8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:48302 alt.politics.nationalism.white:34840 alt.revisionism:78311 alt.discrimination:55477

The real point in my Kentucky Fried Chicken example, Twinkletoes,
is your penchant for gross generalisation from a single example,
whether true or not.  You move easily, as falsely, from "a Chinese
restaurant" to "the Chinese", or "a Samoan" to "the Samoans" or 
"Polynesians".  If you are unaware of your proclivity for such
false generalisation, then perhaps the significance of my example
escaped you.  So much does, after all.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 08:18:41 PST 1996
Article: 34857 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 16:33:15 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <558nvb$2s3@news.sdd.hp.com> <55b2s9$21u@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> <55dtpg$1j3@clarknet.clark.net>
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frank@clark.net () wrote:
>In article <55b2s9$21u@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
>Philip Deitiker  wrote:
>>geroldf@sdd.hp.com (Gerold Firl) wrote:

[...]

>I think I have commented on this quote before. Let me say now that it is
>not "clear" to me that there can be no objective reasons for stopping at
>any particular level of taxonomic splitting. I am not going to defend the

Then why don't you suggest some, with specific reference to the human species.

>existence of subraces, sub-subraces, .... Indeed, I am not even defending
>the existence of races, just asking what the race deniers are denying. I
>would say that the process of conceptual subdivision must come to an end
>when there is no longer any breeding isolation.

The "race deniers" are denying the utility of the biological concept of
"race" for producing biologically meaningful classifications of humans.
I thought that should be fairly clear.

>>     As one goes down the scale of taxonomic hierarchy toward the
>>     lower and lower partitions, the boundaries between clusters
>>     become even less clear.  The evolutionary explanation is simple.
>>     There is great genetic variation in all populations, even in
>>     small ones.  This individual variation has accumulated over
>>     very long periods, because most polymorphisms observed in
>>     humans antedate the separation into continents, and perhaps
>>     even the origin of the species less than half a million years
>>     ago.  The same polymorphisms are found in most populations,
>>     but at different frequencies in each, because the geographic
>>     differentiation of humans is recent, having taken perhaps
>>     one-third or less of the time the species has been in existence.
>>     There has therefore been too little time for the accumulation
>>     of substantial divergence....
>
>Is C-S speaking in his capacity as a gene counter? Remember gene counting
>is *one* method to try to reconstruct the evolutionary tree. And, in case
>I haven't said this before, the gene counters argue heatedly among
>themselves as to what is "the" best algorithm (If the Republicans capture
>the Presidency next week, this would will become jackempithm.)

I imagine Cavalli-Sforza is speaking in his capacity as one of the world's
foremost human population geneticists.  If that makes him a "gene counter",
so be it.  Yes, genetic variation is but one way classify humans into groups.
It is one of the most objective ways, though, since phenotypes for the same
gene or combination of genes may differ under different environmental
conditions.  That wouldn't be too useful for any classification, evolutionary
or otherwise.  And if what one is interested in is a classification reflecting
evolutionary history, than when it comes to humans genes are the only way to
go because so much of human adaptation is nonbiological.

>And what makes C-S say that there has been "too little" time for the
>accumulation of "substantial" divergence? Data from lots of species,
>please.

Cavalli-Sforza is speaking specifically about time-depth for evolution
of the human species.  A relatively new species, with relatively long-lived
individuals which has dispersed rapidly over an extremely wide range of
environments and accomplished much of its adaptation to those environments
through cultural rather than biological responses.  There are no other
species which provide appropriate analogues, I would think (but I'm not
a biologist).

>>     From a scientific point of view, the concept of race has failed
>>     to obtain any consensus; none is likely, given the gradual
>>     variation in existence.  It may be objected that the racial
>>     stereotypes have a consistency that allows even the layman to
>>     to classify individuals.  However, the major stereotypes, all
>>     based on skin color, hair color and form, and facial traits,
>>     reflect superficial differences that are not confirmed by 
>>     deeper analysis with more reliable genetic traits....

>Gene counters mean by "superficial" not involving very many genes. But
>evolutionary pressures certainly can be concentrated on a small number of
>genes.

Uh huh.  So what?  Does that mean that you think these superificial characteristics
are appropriate for defining races?

>  By means
>>     of painstaking multivariate analysis, we can identify "clusters"
>>     of populations and order them in a hierarchy that we believe
>>     represents the history of fissions in the expansion of the whole
>>     world of anatomically modern humans.  *At no level can clusters
>>     be identified with races, since every level of clustering
>>     would determine a different partition and there is no biological
>>     reason to prefer a particular one." (my emphasis)
>
>From what I can make out of this, C-S seems to saying that h.sapiens
>(which arose only once, acc. to him) fissioned according to gene clusters
>A,B,C,D,.., where A ={a1,a2,a3,a4,...}, B={b1,b2,b3,b4,...}, etc., with
>the small letters representing genes. But during the next fissioning we
>get a strange mix A1=(a1,b2,c3,d4,...}, B1={a2,b3,c4,d1}, C1={a3,b4,c1,d2,
>...}, D1={a4,b1,c2,d3}, .... I am not sure this is a good way of
>expressing it. But there does seem to be some very curious reshuffling of
>the world's peoples, not unlike the scenario I proposed in the previous
>post of the world splitting up randomly into different faiths and the
>faithful following there respective Brigham Youngs to new lands.

I don't follow this.  
>
>>>>This strikes me as a pretty clear explanation.

>>>C-S seems to be saying that we can classify the species into an
>>>arbitrary number of races, depending on what level of clustering we
>>>choose to establish demarcations, and hence race is "unstable". I
>>>guess that's a fair statement, but it shouldn't be interpreted to mean
>>>that race has no basis in biology. The genetic clusters do exist, and
>>>they do correspond to the standard processes of adaptation and drift
>>>which always create geographic variation in any species.

It does mean, though, that if one is equating races with subspecies, and
subspecies with speciating (or evolutionarily diverging never to merge again) 
groups within a species, it is a load of crap because it is impossible to 
identify in any meaningful way what those allegedly speciating groups are.
   

>>I don't think any geneticist will argue this point, every population
>>is going to have variation to the extent it can't be made identical to
>>another population. The issue really revolves around who should, and
>>under what circumstances population based genetic distinctions be
>>made.[...]
>
>No, no, no! It is desirable, of course, and may eventually happens, but it
>is extremely common for nonobservables to be given theoretical status long
>before the thing being postulated is found. The best case in point here is
>the gene itself![...]

How useful is the "nonobservable" category "race" in the biological and
ecological sciences?  The gene have turned out to be highly useful concept,
since we can actually figure out what it is made from and are in the process
of figuring out genes working together do other things.  I don't think that
"race" is a comparable concept, though, because it is a classificatory 
rather than an identifying concept.  I know that's fuzzy, I'm still thinking
about this.

And given that it is a classificatory concept - one that groups individuals
irrespective of variation - the motives of those obsessed with it are highly
relevant, in my opinion.

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 10:01:55 PST 1996
Article: 55488 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 2 Nov 1996 16:33:15 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 148
Message-ID: <55ft4b$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <558nvb$2s3@news.sdd.hp.com> <55b2s9$21u@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> <55dtpg$1j3@clarknet.clark.net>
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frank@clark.net () wrote:
>In article <55b2s9$21u@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
>Philip Deitiker  wrote:
>>geroldf@sdd.hp.com (Gerold Firl) wrote:

[...]

>I think I have commented on this quote before. Let me say now that it is
>not "clear" to me that there can be no objective reasons for stopping at
>any particular level of taxonomic splitting. I am not going to defend the

Then why don't you suggest some, with specific reference to the human species.

>existence of subraces, sub-subraces, .... Indeed, I am not even defending
>the existence of races, just asking what the race deniers are denying. I
>would say that the process of conceptual subdivision must come to an end
>when there is no longer any breeding isolation.

The "race deniers" are denying the utility of the biological concept of
"race" for producing biologically meaningful classifications of humans.
I thought that should be fairly clear.

>>     As one goes down the scale of taxonomic hierarchy toward the
>>     lower and lower partitions, the boundaries between clusters
>>     become even less clear.  The evolutionary explanation is simple.
>>     There is great genetic variation in all populations, even in
>>     small ones.  This individual variation has accumulated over
>>     very long periods, because most polymorphisms observed in
>>     humans antedate the separation into continents, and perhaps
>>     even the origin of the species less than half a million years
>>     ago.  The same polymorphisms are found in most populations,
>>     but at different frequencies in each, because the geographic
>>     differentiation of humans is recent, having taken perhaps
>>     one-third or less of the time the species has been in existence.
>>     There has therefore been too little time for the accumulation
>>     of substantial divergence....
>
>Is C-S speaking in his capacity as a gene counter? Remember gene counting
>is *one* method to try to reconstruct the evolutionary tree. And, in case
>I haven't said this before, the gene counters argue heatedly among
>themselves as to what is "the" best algorithm (If the Republicans capture
>the Presidency next week, this would will become jackempithm.)

I imagine Cavalli-Sforza is speaking in his capacity as one of the world's
foremost human population geneticists.  If that makes him a "gene counter",
so be it.  Yes, genetic variation is but one way classify humans into groups.
It is one of the most objective ways, though, since phenotypes for the same
gene or combination of genes may differ under different environmental
conditions.  That wouldn't be too useful for any classification, evolutionary
or otherwise.  And if what one is interested in is a classification reflecting
evolutionary history, than when it comes to humans genes are the only way to
go because so much of human adaptation is nonbiological.

>And what makes C-S say that there has been "too little" time for the
>accumulation of "substantial" divergence? Data from lots of species,
>please.

Cavalli-Sforza is speaking specifically about time-depth for evolution
of the human species.  A relatively new species, with relatively long-lived
individuals which has dispersed rapidly over an extremely wide range of
environments and accomplished much of its adaptation to those environments
through cultural rather than biological responses.  There are no other
species which provide appropriate analogues, I would think (but I'm not
a biologist).

>>     From a scientific point of view, the concept of race has failed
>>     to obtain any consensus; none is likely, given the gradual
>>     variation in existence.  It may be objected that the racial
>>     stereotypes have a consistency that allows even the layman to
>>     to classify individuals.  However, the major stereotypes, all
>>     based on skin color, hair color and form, and facial traits,
>>     reflect superficial differences that are not confirmed by 
>>     deeper analysis with more reliable genetic traits....

>Gene counters mean by "superficial" not involving very many genes. But
>evolutionary pressures certainly can be concentrated on a small number of
>genes.

Uh huh.  So what?  Does that mean that you think these superificial characteristics
are appropriate for defining races?

>  By means
>>     of painstaking multivariate analysis, we can identify "clusters"
>>     of populations and order them in a hierarchy that we believe
>>     represents the history of fissions in the expansion of the whole
>>     world of anatomically modern humans.  *At no level can clusters
>>     be identified with races, since every level of clustering
>>     would determine a different partition and there is no biological
>>     reason to prefer a particular one." (my emphasis)
>
>From what I can make out of this, C-S seems to saying that h.sapiens
>(which arose only once, acc. to him) fissioned according to gene clusters
>A,B,C,D,.., where A ={a1,a2,a3,a4,...}, B={b1,b2,b3,b4,...}, etc., with
>the small letters representing genes. But during the next fissioning we
>get a strange mix A1=(a1,b2,c3,d4,...}, B1={a2,b3,c4,d1}, C1={a3,b4,c1,d2,
>...}, D1={a4,b1,c2,d3}, .... I am not sure this is a good way of
>expressing it. But there does seem to be some very curious reshuffling of
>the world's peoples, not unlike the scenario I proposed in the previous
>post of the world splitting up randomly into different faiths and the
>faithful following there respective Brigham Youngs to new lands.

I don't follow this.  
>
>>>>This strikes me as a pretty clear explanation.

>>>C-S seems to be saying that we can classify the species into an
>>>arbitrary number of races, depending on what level of clustering we
>>>choose to establish demarcations, and hence race is "unstable". I
>>>guess that's a fair statement, but it shouldn't be interpreted to mean
>>>that race has no basis in biology. The genetic clusters do exist, and
>>>they do correspond to the standard processes of adaptation and drift
>>>which always create geographic variation in any species.

It does mean, though, that if one is equating races with subspecies, and
subspecies with speciating (or evolutionarily diverging never to merge again) 
groups within a species, it is a load of crap because it is impossible to 
identify in any meaningful way what those allegedly speciating groups are.
   

>>I don't think any geneticist will argue this point, every population
>>is going to have variation to the extent it can't be made identical to
>>another population. The issue really revolves around who should, and
>>under what circumstances population based genetic distinctions be
>>made.[...]
>
>No, no, no! It is desirable, of course, and may eventually happens, but it
>is extremely common for nonobservables to be given theoretical status long
>before the thing being postulated is found. The best case in point here is
>the gene itself![...]

How useful is the "nonobservable" category "race" in the biological and
ecological sciences?  The gene have turned out to be highly useful concept,
since we can actually figure out what it is made from and are in the process
of figuring out genes working together do other things.  I don't think that
"race" is a comparable concept, though, because it is a classificatory 
rather than an identifying concept.  I know that's fuzzy, I'm still thinking
about this.

And given that it is a classificatory concept - one that groups individuals
irrespective of variation - the motives of those obsessed with it are highly
relevant, in my opinion.

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 21:01:13 PST 1996
Article: 43488 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:03:03 GMT
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Kaa Byington  wrote:


>Ian McKinney wrote:
  
>> WARNING____WARNING_____WARNING______WARNING______WARNING
  
>> WARNING ALL PATRIOTS:
  
>> IT has been reported that the person calling himself "Wizard" has his email
>> address linked to Nizkor. Suspect "Wizard" to be a covert ADL or Nizkor
>> agent. Also interesting is that "Arlin Adams" informed us that Ken McVay,
>> HNIC, of Nizkor was "invited" to join-in on the MAM discussions. Seems
>> "Arlin" is in on the operation also.


>WEll, shit.  Why don't I ever make any of these lists?  I want to be an 
>enemy operative (in caps) too.


Bummer, no?  I'm really miffed.  I figured I was a shoe-in, being one of
the original inductees to the Order of Fatbroad and all.  



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 21:01:14 PST 1996
Article: 43489 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:03:10 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847069390$14078@atype.com>
Subject: Re: No Peace with Nazis (was: Re: Race and the Militia)
Lines: 25


Bob Whitaker  wrote:


>   I don't know what world you've been living in, but do you have any
>idea what happens to a European student who refuses to be orthodox in
>his racial views?  He goes to prison.
>   Here in the 'States, we just ruin his career for him if he is not
>Politically Correct on racial issues.
>   But, of course, you were bravely protesting a dictator who died fifty
>years ago, so please go ahead.

I'd sure like a specific reference to what newspaper you've been reading
for this story, Mr. Whitaker.  In Germany, denial of the Holocaust is
illegal.  There has been a promise by the leader of Britain's labour
party to outlaw Holocaust denial as well.  But I am unaware of any laws
about "orthodox[y] in [his] racial views".  I'd be most interested to
read about those laws and the specific convictions under them to which
you are alluding here.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 21:01:15 PST 1996
Article: 43493 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:33:21 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847071201$14266@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arlin Adams Confirms Racialist View
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
 
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
 
>>Yeah, but they wouldn't have to worry any more about deciding what 
>>diversity is "good" and what is "bad", would they.  Give their little
>>minds a rest.
 
>It's all quite simple, Laura, as you well know.  However, I have to
>commend you that your trying to make "complicated" the difference
>between good and bad diversity is a good obfuscation tactic but you'll
>just to try just a little harder next time, OK?  
 
>Diversity involving all Whites is good. 
 
>Diversity involving non-Whites is bad.  
 
>Try again.  Ready, set, GO...!!!


Dear Brian/Kurt,

Perhaps you didn't see my original post on this thread.  Or perhaps
you don't know enough about genetics to realise the utter idiocy of
Les Griswold's suggestion that a "stable White genotype" is a 
desirable thing.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 22:10:34 PST 1996
Article: 43488 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:847018083$10921@atype.com
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:03:03 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847069383$14064@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Wizard is Covert Nizkor Agent - Beware
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Kaa Byington  wrote:


>Ian McKinney wrote:
  
>> WARNING____WARNING_____WARNING______WARNING______WARNING
  
>> WARNING ALL PATRIOTS:
  
>> IT has been reported that the person calling himself "Wizard" has his email
>> address linked to Nizkor. Suspect "Wizard" to be a covert ADL or Nizkor
>> agent. Also interesting is that "Arlin Adams" informed us that Ken McVay,
>> HNIC, of Nizkor was "invited" to join-in on the MAM discussions. Seems
>> "Arlin" is in on the operation also.


>WEll, shit.  Why don't I ever make any of these lists?  I want to be an 
>enemy operative (in caps) too.


Bummer, no?  I'm really miffed.  I figured I was a shoe-in, being one of
the original inductees to the Order of Fatbroad and all.  



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 22:10:35 PST 1996
Article: 43489 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:03:10 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847069390$14078@atype.com>
Subject: Re: No Peace with Nazis (was: Re: Race and the Militia)
Lines: 25


Bob Whitaker  wrote:


>   I don't know what world you've been living in, but do you have any
>idea what happens to a European student who refuses to be orthodox in
>his racial views?  He goes to prison.
>   Here in the 'States, we just ruin his career for him if he is not
>Politically Correct on racial issues.
>   But, of course, you were bravely protesting a dictator who died fifty
>years ago, so please go ahead.

I'd sure like a specific reference to what newspaper you've been reading
for this story, Mr. Whitaker.  In Germany, denial of the Holocaust is
illegal.  There has been a promise by the leader of Britain's labour
party to outlaw Holocaust denial as well.  But I am unaware of any laws
about "orthodox[y] in [his] racial views".  I'd be most interested to
read about those laws and the specific convictions under them to which
you are alluding here.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov  3 22:10:36 PST 1996
Article: 43493 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:33:21 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847071201$14266@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Arlin Adams Confirms Racialist View
Lines: 34


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
 
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
 
>>Yeah, but they wouldn't have to worry any more about deciding what 
>>diversity is "good" and what is "bad", would they.  Give their little
>>minds a rest.
 
>It's all quite simple, Laura, as you well know.  However, I have to
>commend you that your trying to make "complicated" the difference
>between good and bad diversity is a good obfuscation tactic but you'll
>just to try just a little harder next time, OK?  
 
>Diversity involving all Whites is good. 
 
>Diversity involving non-Whites is bad.  
 
>Try again.  Ready, set, GO...!!!


Dear Brian/Kurt,

Perhaps you didn't see my original post on this thread.  Or perhaps
you don't know enough about genetics to realise the utter idiocy of
Les Griswold's suggestion that a "stable White genotype" is a 
desirable thing.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov  4 07:32:19 PST 1996
Article: 43565 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 1:33:09 GMT
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Subject: Re: Q for those who object to Jews
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>>will have to await more scientific verification in another, less
>>>politically correct, era.   For now, we can easily produce a list of
>>>obvious, physical criteria which is MORE than sufficient to protect
>>>our gene pool.  Obviously, White skin is on the list, yes!

>>Ah, so it seems that you are saying that there *isn't* any evidence
>>that Jews are of an "Asiatic stock", but you are confident that they
>>will be demonstrated to be once someone gets around to it?  Putting
>>the cart before the horse a little bit, aren't you?

>Once again, the distinction can only be based on behavior at this
>point in time.  However, the behavior of Jews, as demonstrated by
>CENTURIES of activity, makes it quite clear that having Jews in his
>society is LETHAL to the European!  Jewish behavior and activity make
>Jews totally incompatible with the European race.  It's taken us well
>over 10 centuries to figure this one out, but I think we know now!!

Well this is a most interesting example of furious backpedalling if I
ever saw one.  You appear to be withdrawing your prior claim about the
"racial status" of Jews now and resorting to a sort of weird behavioural/
historical argument to justify your antisemitism, instead.  That is what
this is, of course, good ol' antisemitism.  And while you're at it, what
in hell is the "European race"?  

>>So you don't have great confidence in Nazi-era racial science, Mr. Smith?

>I talked a geneticist last year, a casual conversation, and he says
>there already EXISTS genetic markers for the stereotypical Jew, i.e.,
>the Slavo-Turkic Ashkenazi type.   Also, recently, breast cancer was
>found to be a Jewish-linked trait in Ashkenazis.   The problem is,
>these facts are politically incorrect, so they are not investigated
>further.

Genetic markers for the "stereotypical Jew"?  Ummmmm, what about the
majority of Jews who don't look anything like the stereotype, Mr. Stele?
Ooops, I mean Smith.  There does seem to be a somewhat higher risk for
breast cancer among women of Ashkenazi descent.  There is also a higher
risk among women who have never born children, women whose mother or 
mother's sister had breast cancer (irrespective of national origin),
and a whole bunch of other things.  In fact, the various factors involved
in the etiology of breast cancer are being investigated further.  But
a slightly higher risk of breast cancer hardly constitutes a genetic
marker for a "racial" group.  Unless it's a single-sex race.   

>>>"The Jews of the Middles Ages in England was normally a well-to-do man
>>>and often an exceedingly rich man.  Then, as now, a small number of
>>>Jews were much the richest men of their time.  The Jew had most of the
>>>finances in his hands, and this immense privilege, that he alone was
>>>allowed to practice usury."
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
>>Tactical error on the part of Europe's good Christians, no?  If only
>>they could have foreseen the fortune to be made out of the "unclean"
>>and "unbecoming" practice of usury, you can be darn sure Jews wouldn't
>>have been allowed to get their hands on it.

>Not so.  Jews didn't invent abusive interest rates.  Whites could
>figure it out obviously.   Rather, it is that usury contradicts the
>mores and soul of the White racial community.  Only an alien could get
>away with it, with the protection of the Crown, because such behavior
>is looked down upon in White-value societies.

Usury contradicts the mores and soul of the White racial community????
Gee I wish you'd tell that to my bank manager.  Maybe they'd let me off
on my mortgage.  Weren't Europe's monarchs at the time "White"?  What
about their mores and values, since they were supposedly protecting
the moneylenders?  

>>So, if a couple of Jews did very well (the Rothschilds come to mind) in
>>the 19th century), does this mean that *all*, or even a majority, of 
>>Europe's Jews from the 15th century onward controlled politics and 
>>finances?  If you think it does, please provide evidence to support
>>your conclusion.  And if you don't think it does, please provide
>>an explanation for your (apparent) believe that the Jewishness of the
>>small number of individuals involved is in any way relevant.  Why,
>>for example, is the Jewishness of the Rothschilds any more relevant
>>than, for example, the Catholicism of Isabella, or the ethnicity of
>>Napoleon?  

>Yes.  The Jewishness of Jews is VERY determinative.  These people
>weren't just "incidentally" Jewish.  That Jews dominate finance in
>every country they aren't THROWN OUT OF is not "just an accident."

Excuse me?  The majority of Jews in eastern Europe until the outbreak
of World War II were relatively poor people living in small towns and
engaged in small businesses.  Jews of north African countries hardly
dominated those countries' finances, nor did/do Jews in South American
countries.  

>The Jewish phenomenon is a combination of BOTH genetic and cultural
>forces.

So are you arguing that a slightly higher risk of breast cancer promotes
an interest in financial management?  Hey, here is an interesting 
hypothesis.  The gene that causes breast cancer in women causes high
finance in men.  With apologies to anyone who might take offence.
I know that breast cancer is no laughing matter.  

>Genetically, Jews are Oriental and have bred selectively for those who
>shrewd enough and loyal enough to survive as aliens living in a
>foreign land.  Culturally, their myth espouses that Jews are the
>Chosen Ones, that they are to rule the goyim, and that the goyim are
>inferior to them.  

This is not my understanding of the meaning of the phrase "Chosen people".
I had always understood that it meant "chosen to carry the word of G-d
to all others", rather than "special" or "superior".  I've heard that
canard about "shrewdness" being selected for with centuries of living
in countries where pogroms erupted periodically.  Funny, that.  The
centuries old strategy of "riding out the storm" nearly resulting in
the decimation of Europe's Jews in the last world war, though.

>These myths permeate the Jewish culture and
>contribute to a fanatical chauvanism.  This potent combination of
>genetics, culture, and Jewish supremacy all contribute to the
>consistent pattern of Jewish behavior recurring throughout history.  

No wonder you don't like Jews.  You think they're supreme.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov  4 12:47:46 PST 1996
Article: 48412 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 00:33:06 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <55jdk2$rn2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55dn4d$jrq@lex.zippo.com>  <55du4l$n1u@lex.zippo.com>  <55epi6$66k@lex.zippo.com>  <55ggt5$a1d@lex.zippo.com>  <55h7i1$iuq@lex.zippo.com> 
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jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>In article <55h7i1$iuq@lex.zippo.com>, Ourobouros wrote:

[...]

>In both cases, "Stone" has effectively accused several people of
>deliberately misquoting him -- that is to say, of changing or adding words
>quotes attributed to him.

>This is not at all the same as the accusation that "Stone" has now
>retreated to: that certain individuals have "implicated that [he] was
>meaning 'all' or 'every'... in what [he] wrote".
>
>It was well within "Stone's" power to state, at the outset, that he did
>not mean "all" or "every" in the posts under discussion. It was well
>within "Stone's" power to answer the questions put to him.

[...]

>He cannot have it both ways. Either he means that he was actually
>misquoted -- that altered passages were falsely attributed to him -- or he
>means that erroneous implications were made concerning his viewpoints.

I guess that depends on whether his grasp of meaning is any better than
his grasp of the written languages.  Truly, I read a phrase like the one
you quote from him above and have to wonder if he is capable of 
comprehending basic written English.  Clearly he has considerable
difficulty in communicating through the written word.  Or does he
take advantage of his lousy writing to try to create loopholes for
himself?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 06:58:32 PST 1996
Article: 78520 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
Date: 4 Nov 1996 13:37:47 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:48456 alt.politics.nationalism.white:34954 alt.revisionism:78520 alt.discrimination:55560

Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <55fm2m$lv8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...

>>The real point in my Kentucky Fried Chicken example, Twinkletoes,
>>is your penchant for gross generalisation from a single example,
>>whether true or not.  You move easily, as falsely, from "a Chinese
>>restaurant" to "the Chinese", or "a Samoan" to "the Samoans" or 
>>"Polynesians".  If you are unaware of your proclivity for such
>>false generalisation, then perhaps the significance of my example
>>escaped you.  So much does, after all.

>You should pay more attention to the context of what I write, "Finsten."
>I don't generally move falsely from "a" to "the."  Usually there is a 
>delibrate purpose, which is relevant, the other times are errors on my
>behalf.

I pay close attention to what you write, Twinkletoes.  This is why I
said above that one of your favourite strategies is false generalisation.
It doesn't matter what your "deliberate purpose" is.  If the generalisations
are false, they are false.  If you must do this in order to fulfill your
"deliberate purpose", then that says a lot about your intellectual
honesty, doesn't it.

>Samoans are part of the Polynesian community and share a common culture 
>(yes there are differences, but usually minor.)  B. Danielsson did an 
>extensive study throughout the Polynesian world for pre-European contact.

How much time did Danielsson spend doing the research for "Love in the
South Seas"?  How much time did he spend studying each of the different
Polynesian cultures?

>As for your Chinese example, I never said that all Chinese restaurants
>sold human flesh, I said (paraphrased) that if there was one then there
>would no doubt be more.  Nothing in what I wrote can give a rational
>explanation to your choice in using the word "every."

But you did make a generalisation about cannibalism in China, and that
is the context in which the remark about restaurants was relevant.  Or
perhaps you've forgotten that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 07:07:49 PST 1996
Article: 34988 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 21:31:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Would you like to discuss the evidence that human "races" are (or are not)
monophyletic, Mr. Whit?  Or compare heterozygosity and mtDNA maximum
divergence among human "races" and among subspecies of other primates?

Or perhaps you would care to explain how you confuse immigration and
integration the way you do?

Or maybe you'll tell me what currently unclaimed and uninhabited piece
of the world you and your fellow racists think you could take over as
a "white homeland"?

Nah.  It'll be more politically correct blah blah mommy professor
blah blah blah clones blah blah Nazi Who Wants to Kill Six Million
Jews blah blah blah.

By the way, are you a member of the National Alliance?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 07:08:27 PST 1996
Article: 48504 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 4 Nov 1996 21:31:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Would you like to discuss the evidence that human "races" are (or are not)
monophyletic, Mr. Whit?  Or compare heterozygosity and mtDNA maximum
divergence among human "races" and among subspecies of other primates?

Or perhaps you would care to explain how you confuse immigration and
integration the way you do?

Or maybe you'll tell me what currently unclaimed and uninhabited piece
of the world you and your fellow racists think you could take over as
a "white homeland"?

Nah.  It'll be more politically correct blah blah mommy professor
blah blah blah clones blah blah Nazi Who Wants to Kill Six Million
Jews blah blah blah.

By the way, are you a member of the National Alliance?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 07:21:14 PST 1996
Article: 43876 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 15:03:05 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847206185$491@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Q for those who object to Jews
Lines: 96


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>>Genetic markers for the "stereotypical Jew"?  Ummmmm, what about the
>>majority of Jews who don't look anything like the stereotype, Mr. Stele?
>>Ooops, I mean Smith.  

>(Yawn).  This is a typical Nizkor accusation.   Everyone who posts
>against the Jewish line is really 3 other people.

So are you saying that Kurt Stele was posing as you?  I've seen a post
which is signed with your name and signature, but has his userid in the
"From" line.  Gee, I'd be pretty upset if I thought someone else was
posting under my name.

[...]

>There are other markers too, such as for Tay-Sachs.  Once again,
>differentiation will not be prohibitively difficult.  At any rate,
>Jewish customs and influence will have no place in any future White
>state, as we now know such involvement is destructive and incompatible
>with White survival.

But of course, breast cancer, Tay-Sachs and other genetic conditions
(and most breast cancers apparently are not) are not *limited* to
people of Jewish ancestry.  Instead of reiterating the National
Appliance that "differentiation will not be prohibitively difficult",
I would much rather see you spell out the criteria for said differentiation.
Or will you just scoop up and deport all those coming out of synagogue
and leave the secular Jews alone?

>>Usury contradicts the mores and soul of the White racial community????
>>Gee I wish you'd tell that to my bank manager.  Maybe they'd let me off
>>on my mortgage.  Weren't Europe's monarchs at the time "White"?  What
>>about their mores and values, since they were supposedly protecting
>>the moneylenders?  

>I am referring to Whites in White-value societies, i.e., when Whites
>are permitted to live alone according to their traditional values, as
>demonstrated by past White societies.  The White people as a whole in
>those societies opposed usury of course, but the monarchy was "bought
>off" by Jews.

The "monarchy was bought off by the Jews"???????????  I thought it was
rather the other way around.   

>However, I don't wish to discuss White values with a Jew as that would
>be waste of time.  If you are convinced these don't exist, that is
>fine and of no consequence to me.

Well I do wish you would discuss "White values", Mr. Smith. I'm not Jewish
so perhaps it won't be a wast of your time.  I am truly curious about what 
you consider to be "White values".  

[...]

>>>Chosen Ones, that they are to rule the goyim, and that the goyim are
>>>inferior to them.  

>>This is not my understanding of the meaning of the phrase "Chosen people".
>>I had always understood that it meant "chosen to carry the word of G-d
>>to all others", rather than "special" or "superior".  I've heard that
>>canard about "shrewdness" being selected for with centuries of living
>>in countries where pogroms erupted periodically.  Funny, that.  The
>>centuries old strategy of "riding out the storm" nearly resulting in
>>the decimation of Europe's Jews in the last world war, though.

>You glibly discard Jewish shrewdness as a "canard" however, if you
>asked around even today in our politically correct society, honest
>people would reflect this same stereotype of the "pushy Jew" and that
>"Jews stick together."  I find that compelling.  You can fool most of
>the people only some of the time with politically correct propaganda,
>but people can eventually see through it and draw their own
>conclusions.

No, I am critical (in an analytical way) of *any* stereotype because stereotypes
tend to be extremely misleading, whether they are negative or positive.  They
gloss over the variation and emphasise a couple of qualities that you would find
in some individuals in *any* large group of people.  The qualities emphasised 
depend on what the objective of the stereotype is.  It is pretty obvious what 
your objective is.

The idea that there is a cohesive Jewish perspective is laughable.  There is a 
saying that if you put three Jews in a room to discuss something you'll find 
that there are four different opinions.  



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 18:00:33 PST 1996
Article: 43897 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 15:03:14 GMT
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Subject: Re: Arlin Adams Confirms Racialist View
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>Dear Brian/Kurt,

>Dear Laura/Annie.  I don't speak for Les Griswold or anyone but
>myself, thank you.  

If you have any evidence that I am posting under two different
names, please do provide it.  If someone is posting under my name,
I'd like to know about it.  I post under my own name only.  

If you are not also posting under the name Kurt Stele, you should
know that his userid/address has come up with your name and sig
at the bottom.  You might want to do something about that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 18:00:34 PST 1996
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From: Laura Finsten 
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But you don't speak for "Kurt Stele"?  Gee, he has pretended to
speak for you.  Here's the post, downloaded from Dejanews:

[To verify, filter by newsgroup (alt.revisionism) and author
(kurtstel@*), then search from Brian Smith (both, not either).
Dejanews URL is:
http://xp9.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=6733831&server=dnserver.db96q4&CONTEXT=847215937.83
06&hitnum=0]

--------------------
Subject:      Re: DAVID IRVING to tour Australia????
From:         kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele)
Date:         1996/10/19
Message-Id:   <54baaa$eb3@is05.micron.net>
References:   <549p8a$b4l@is05.micron.net> <549ulb$rdp@news.enter.net>
Organization: Micron
Reply-To:     kurtstel@micron.net
Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
>>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>  Wrong.  They were not members of the NA.  You are a lying sack of shit as usual.

>       That's strange.  They filed a motion with the Court of Common Pleas of
>Lehigh County swearing, under oath, that they were.

>       --YFE

They were not NA members nor have they ever been you lying scum-sucking dirtbag. You are
bluffing sack of shit, a Jew AND a lawyer, the worst of the worst.

Brian Smith
-----------------------

Or is Dejanews a Jewish conspiracy, too?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 18:00:35 PST 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 15:18:07 GMT
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Subject: Re: Wizard is Covert Nizkor Agent - Beware
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ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:

>In article <846992012$8466@atype.com>, mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney)
>writes:

>>YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - ADVISE NO CONTACT WITH ABOVE MENTIONED PERSONS. 

>Nice to know both wiz and I have you scared to death, little ianazi...it's
>stuff like this that makes my job worth while...hey did I mention I'm
>ordering an "agent of zog" sweatshirt, after you called me that last week?
>LOL! 

Arlin the sweatshirt line of products is not available yet, but you might
be able to get a t-shirt.  To check them out, take a look at
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad/zog-1.html



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov  5 18:00:36 PST 1996
Article: 43958 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 23:18:03 GMT
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mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney) wrote:

>In message <847069383$14064@atype.com> - Laura Finsten  writes:

>:>"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
>:>          Emma Goldman

>Ok, Wizard, here's a REAL Communist for ya! This is the kind of rif-raf you 
>get when you "invite" the Nizkooks into your playpen.

Nizkooks?  Other than being honoured by induction into the Order of Fatbroad,
I have no association with Nizkor.

Emma Goldman was an anarchist, and I don't think she liked polkas and jigs
and reels very much.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov  7 06:12:45 PST 1996
Article: 78730 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
Date: 6 Nov 1996 20:09:21 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:48651 alt.politics.nationalism.white:35106 alt.revisionism:78730 alt.discrimination:55627

Ourobouros has whined that I have deliberately falsified what he has said,
by posing a rhetorical question.  Interesting concept.  I have indeed suggested
that Ourobouros engages in false generalisation, and specifically used the
example of the discussion of cannibalism in China.  Not surprisingly, he
has denied that false generalisations are a routine part of his arsenal of
"argumentation".

Let us look at the history of the discussion of cannibalism in China.  I have
used Dejanews to locate the relevant posts (a query filter on alt.politics*,
Ourobouros, dates 1996/10/01-1996/11/06, then searching the 300 posts
listed for any of the words "cannibal*", "China", "Chinese".  I have edited 
the posts severely in order to keep this to a reasonable length.  I have not
edited in any way to alter his meaning (as best as I can divine it).
  
We can see what Ourobouros actually said, what he later claims he said,
and we can try (futilely, no doubt) to figure out what he actually meant
with the words he wrote.
I begin with one of his last posts on the subject, another of his whines
in which he accuses me of posing a rhetorical question that puts him in
a bad light:

_______________
Subject:      Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/11/04
Message-Id:   <55lmdh$geb@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <55dn4d$jrq@lex.zippo.com> 
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   alt.politics.white-Power

[...]
I accused "Finsten" of delibrately falsifying what I said.  This does not
mean ["Brown" take special note] that she was changing anything I actually
wrote.  She implied by her rhetorical question, that since I said one
Chinese restaurant..., then I was saying "every" Chinese restaruant.
[...]
______________

He claims that he said "one Chinese restaurant", while I implied that he
said "every Chinese restaurant".  Did he say "one Chinese restaurant"?
Did he mean only "one Chinese restaurant"?  Was my implication that
he was making a gross generalisation unfair, given his words and their
contexts?  
Let us go back to the first posts in which he raised the subject.

_______________
Subject:      Re: Unchanging Polynesians ("Finsten") -- repost
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/10/23
Message-Id:   <54mobr$5nr@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <53vakj$n23@lex.zippo.com> <541b4d$1hk@freenet-News.carleton.ca> 
<5436ll$s5a@lex.zippo.com> <54564e$b22@freenet-News.carleton.ca> <548s11$9ja@lex
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   alt.politics.white-Power

[...]
I also take it that cannabalism is acceptable ("civilised") in your eyes?
I suppose you must do, otherwise you would be critising modern China, and
that would ruin your pro-multiculturalism stance.
________________

Here Ourobouros implies that the appropriate object of any criticism for the
alleged appearance of baby girl on the menu of a single Chinese restaurant
is China.  Not the restaurant's owners, not its proprietors, not the health
inspectors.  But "China".  I infer from this statement that he means all the 
people of China.  Now perhaps he meant that all the people of China should
be held responsible for the alleged actions of a few.  However, given that
he doesn't hold this standard for White folks who do bad things, I don't 
interpret the statement that way.  I read this to imply that he *means* 
that all Chinese condone the alleged behaviour.  This is a gross generalisation.
My interpretation is supported by his comments in the post below:

_________________
Subject:      Re: White MEN created everything
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/10/24
Message-Id:   <54om83$ap8@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <533udu$271@lex.zippo.com> <535hgt$49u@gyda.ifi.uio.no> 
 <54bf2a$maf@lex.zippo.com> <54eu4g$5f4@orion.cyberco
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   alt.politics.white-Power

[...]
>And you can document that the Chinese can buy the flesh of infant girls on the
>market? Do you really believe this?

Does Norway have continual news' black-outs?  Wake up and smell the roses.
Your PC journalists, television crews have been saying this (to my
knowledge) for the last two years.

Can I really believe this?

Yes I can.  I suppose you are also unaware that the Chinese are knocking
off their baby daughters?  Despite your wilful ignorance, I can readily
believe that the parents are willing to make a couple of dollars selling
the carcasses of their baby girls.
[...]
__________________

We can observe that Ourobouros does not provide the evidence asked of him
(in this case by Christopher Lund).
More important for my point, though, is his statement of his willingness to
believe that Chinese parents are willing to sell the bodies of their dead
daughters, presumably to restaurants (and markets).
This is another example of gross generalisation, based on nothing more than
his willingness to believe an unsubstantiated assertion.
Below we see Ourobouros' claim that there is one restaurant involved in this
business.  I still haven't seen a reference to any credible source even for 
this one.
But note also the comment in the last paragraph, which implies that in China
human flesh is eaten as an addition to the diet.

_______________
Subject:      Re: Unchanging Polynesians ("Finsten") -- repost
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/10/28
Message-Id:   <5535a6$850@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <53vakj$n23@lex.zippo.com> <541b4d$1hk@freenet-News.carleton.ca> 
<5436ll$s5a@lex.zippo.com> <54564e$b22@freenet-News.carleton.ca> <548s11$9ja@lex
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   alt.politics.white-Power

[...]
The infamous Chinese restaurant (in China).  It is interesting to note that
because someone else provides the evidence you don't accept it.

[...]
Interesting points, but you are pushing it.  There is a big difference of
symbolically eating one man's death than actually eating one man, and there
is a big difference between eating human flesh out of necessity and eating
human flesh as an addition to the diet.
[...]
____________________

Since Ourobouros is cautious to tap dance furiously and not commit himself too
far, of course, he doesn't say explicitly whether this "dietary supplement" is
widely known about, widely practiced, approved of, and so on.  However, I
interpret his words as implying that these all hold true.  If they weren't,
why would any "criticism of modern China" be called for?  Why would he surmise
that "parents are willing to make a couple of dollars selling the carcasses of 
their baby girls"? 

In the partial post reproduced below, which is an exchange between Ourobouros
and me, I asked him for evidence that cannibalism is a "cultural practice" in
modern China.  He doesn't provide it, of course.  And I'll grant that he may not
realise what is implied by the term "cultural practice" in an anthropological
sense.  "Cultural practice" implies all the things I mentioned in the previous
paragraph.  Does he know this but claim that by not denying it, he was not
making a generalisation?  Or did he not know this?

______________________
Subject:      Re: Unchanging Polynesians ("Finsten") -- repost
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/10/30
Message-Id:   <55886i$b2u@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <53vakj$n23@lex.zippo.com> <541b4d$1hk@freenet-News.carleton.ca> 
<5436ll$s5a@lex.zippo.com> <54564e$b22@freenet-News.carleton.ca> <548s11$9ja@lex
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   alt.politics.white-Power

[...]
>>>>>No, I don't think that cannibalism is "acceptable".  Do provide evidence
>>>>>that cannibalism is a cultural practice in modern China.

>>>>I think Mr. Verady (apologies if the name is spelt wrong) is currently
>>>>doing just that, from the T'ang dynasty onwards (read the thread "White
>>>>MEN created everything and his posts connected with it).

>>>You "think" that someone else is providing this evidence?  What then is
>>>the basis for your own view on this?  I asked you for evidence, not
>>>someone else in another thread.

>>The infamous Chinese restaurant (in China).  It is interesting to note that
>>because someone else provides the evidence you don't accept it.

>Well, I don't read everything posted on this newsgroup.  I find it interesting
>that you don't even know what the evidence is (your own words are "I think Mr.
>Verady ... is currently doing just that [providing the evidence]...".  And yet
>you have accepted the veracity of the claim.  It does sound rather as if you
>are willing to believe anything negative about people who aren't "White".

I do not know Mr. Verady's motives, "Finsten."  BTW, he did quote some
books concerning the human meat market in China (T'ang dynasty onwards).
[...]
_____________________

Ourobouros has been whining that he only said there is *one* restaurant in
China with baby girl on the menu.  No evidence even for the one, but what 
else is new.

But in the post below, he says that he assumes that "if there is one, there
is (sic) more".  This is an example of gross generalisation, based on 
absolutely no evidence.
  
______________________
Subject:      Re: Unchanging Polynesians ("Finsten") -- repost
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/10/30
Message-Id:   <55886i$b2u@lex.zippo.com>

[...]
>So Chinese are just flocking to this alleged restaurant and ordering up the
>human flesh, preferring it to pork or chicken?

I would assume if there is one, there is more.  Afterall, parents are
knocking the head of their daughters all over China.
[...]
__________________

Note how he begins to backpedal in the next post on this subject.  Now
he concedes that he said that if there was one there would *no doubt*
be more.  His paraphrase, my paraphrase.  The meaning is not altered.
I emphasise his use of the phrase *no doubt*.  Now why, in Ourobouros'
mind, is there *no doubt* that there is more than one such restaurant?
Good question when he hasn't even demonstrated the existence of one,
one might ask.  In my interpretation of his words, in this post and 
throughout the discussion over a period of several weeks, he has no
doubt that there are more because he makes gross generalisations.
This is not, in his mind, aberrant (and undemonstrated) behaviour,
but behaviour that is typical.  Without any evidence to support this
thinking, such an unsubstantiated charge is an unsupported generalisation,
based on nothing more than his penchant for thinking the worst of
entire groups of people based on the misdeeds of a few.  This was
my basis for the use of the word "every" in the Kentucky Fried
Chicken example.

________________________
Subject:      Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/11/02
Message-Id:   <55h577$hpv@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <55dn4d$jrq@lex.zippo.com>  
<55du4l$n1u@lex.zippo.com>  <
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   
alt.politics.white-Power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination

[...]
As for your Chinese example, I never said that all Chinese restaurants
sold human flesh, I said (paraphrased) that if there was one then there
would no doubt be more.  Nothing in what I wrote can give a rational
explanation to your choice in using the word "every."
[...]
____________________________

Apparently unable to remember what he said only a couple of days earlier,
Ourobouros is so desperate to smear me with the charge of deliberately
falsifying the meaning behind his words that he asserts once again that
he only claimed that "one restaurant" was involved.  Unbelievable.  And
so busy trying to backtrack just in case, that he claims that he has engaged
in gross generalisation on a couple instances for the purposes of humour
or sarcasm.  

Anybody find him amusing?  In a humourous rather than zoological sort of
way, I mean?

_____________________________
Subject:      Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
From:         Ourobouros
Date:         1996/11/04
Message-Id:   <55m5am$n5r@lex.zippo.com>
References:   <55dn4d$jrq@lex.zippo.com>  
<55du4l$n1u@lex.zippo.com>  <
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   
alt.politics.white-Power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination

[...]
I deny that I make false generalisations, except in the odd occasion for
the purposes of humour or sarcasm.
[...]

>>As for your Chinese example, I never said that all Chinese restaurants
>>sold human flesh, I said (paraphrased) that if there was one then there
>>would no doubt be more.  Nothing in what I wrote can give a rational
>>explanation to your choice in using the word "every."

>But you did make a generalisation about cannibalism in China, and that
>is the context in which the remark about restaurants was relevant.  Or
>perhaps you've forgotten that.

What generalisation was that, "Finsten"?

One restaurant is not most restaurants, therefore I remain perplexed how
I made a generalisation in this instance.
[...]
____________________

Perplexed is probably your perpetual state, Twinkletoes.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov  7 08:49:57 PST 1996
Article: 44260 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 16:18:04 GMT
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Message-ID: <847383484$17042@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Q for those who object to Jews
Lines: 135


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>>But of course, breast cancer, Tay-Sachs and other genetic conditions
>>(and most breast cancers apparently are not) are not *limited* to
>>people of Jewish ancestry.  Instead of reiterating the National
>>Appliance that "differentiation will not be prohibitively difficult",
>>I would much rather see you spell out the criteria for said differentiation.
>>Or will you just scoop up and deport all those coming out of synagogue
>>and leave the secular Jews alone?

>We'll figure it out Mrs. Finsten.

Given that you seem to have leapt to the (erroneous) conclusion that I
am Jewish, my confidence in your ability to do so is not great.  A major
difficulty seems to be the fact that you are confusing minor differences
in gene frequencies between populations with genetic markers that
distinguish races.  I mean really, in practical terms, imagine a scenario
where I am required to prove that I am not Jewish.  How would I do that?
Of course, I imagine that I wouldn't be "White", anyway, in National
Appliance terms, because my ideology is all wrong.  If The Turner Diaries
is any sort of benchmark, the vast majority of North Americans (exclusive
of Mexico) aren't "White" enough for the National Appliance.  What I find
really fascinating about National Appliance racial politics is the way
an individual's "race" can change over the course of their lives, and the
way genetically identical people (identical twins) theoretically can belong
to different races.  It truly is amazing!!  

>>>I am referring to Whites in White-value societies, i.e., when Whites
>>>are permitted to live alone according to their traditional values, as
>>>demonstrated by past White societies.  The White people as a whole in
>>>those societies opposed usury of course, but the monarchy was "bought
>>>off" by Jews.

>>The "monarchy was bought off by the Jews"???????????  I thought it was
>>rather the other way around.   

>I'd say it, all in all, it was a mutually beneficial relationship.
>The big loser, as usual:  the White people under Jewish yoke.

Well, the royal families needed money to fund their monarchies, yet dealing
in money was considered to be beneath Christians.  Quite the conundrum, no?
And Jews needed to survive, but they were barred from most guilds and from
landownership. 

>>>However, I don't wish to discuss White values with a Jew as that would
>>>be waste of time.  If you are convinced these don't exist, that is
>>>fine and of no consequence to me.

>>Well I do wish you would discuss "White values", Mr. Smith. I'm not Jewish
>>so perhaps it won't be a wast of your time.  I am truly curious about what 
>>you consider to be "White values".  

>White values are those which dominate and reflect the soul of the
>European people, and are appear in Whites most prevalently in White
>societies.  Honor, valor, chivalry, altruism (no other races possess
>as much altriusm as Whites do, and it being exploited), empathy,
>adventure, discovery, love of Nature.

Yeah, I can see that you're so "empathetic" and "honourable" that you think
you can identify my religion and/or ethnic background based on a couple of
posts.  You actually believe this ethnocentric nonsense, don't you?  

>Many are values contrast
>sharply to the Jewish values of materialism, commercialism, and
>cosmopolitanism which have been unnaturally and destructively imposed
>on Whites.  However, the Japanese did create an honor code, similar to
>Europeans, and I respect them for that.

This I find amusingly ironic.  Jews are responsible for both commercialism
and communism?????  Do you know anything about the roots of mercantilism
and why it was so important in the history of Europe?  Why do I have the
feeling you are defining "cosmopolitanism" in "racial" rather than cultural
and linguistic terms?  

>>>You glibly discard Jewish shrewdness as a "canard" however, if you
>>>asked around even today in our politically correct society, honest
>>>people would reflect this same stereotype of the "pushy Jew" and that
>>>"Jews stick together."  I find that compelling.  You can fool most of
>>>the people only some of the time with politically correct propaganda,
>>>but people can eventually see through it and draw their own
>>>conclusions.

>>No, I am critical (in an analytical way) of *any* stereotype because stereotypes
>>tend to be extremely misleading, whether they are negative or positive.  They
>>gloss over the variation and emphasise a couple of qualities that you would find
>>in some individuals in *any* large group of people.  The qualities emphasised 
>>depend on what the objective of the stereotype is.  It is pretty obvious what 
>>your objective is.

>A stereotype which contradicts existing propaganda reflects a general
>truth:  otherwise it couldn't exist.  The stereotype of the Jewish

Uh Mr. Smith, the same stereotype, however, did *not* contradict existing
propaganda in Germany and its occupied territories in the 1930s and 1940s.
So does that then mean that the stereotype couldn't exist then????

>"money-grubber" is reflected even in people who don't have a so-called
>"objective" and in several countries, and in several eras.  I think
>there is much to be said about such a widely and consistenly recurring
>stereotype as the "money-grubbing" Jew.    In Shakespearian plays it
>is embodied in the person of Shylock, for example.  

>>The idea that there is a cohesive Jewish perspective is laughable.  There is a 
>>saying that if you put three Jews in a room to discuss something you'll find 
>>that there are four different opinions.  

>That is not what I mean by "cohesion" in this context.  Vis a vis the
>White race and non-Jews generally, Jews are cohesive.  

Funny thing that.  Events in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s seem to have made
an impression on them: that they couldn't count on their governments to look
out for their basic rights, and that ignoring strident antisemitic rhetoric
could quite literally be deadly.  Oh, I forgot that you think the Holocaust
is a myth.  Is it only the 6 million dead Jews that you think is a lie, or
do you think that the 6 million dead Gypsies, homosexuals, Poles, labour
unionists, prisoners of war and others are also a lie, Mr. Smith?

It is certainly true that there are a number of active and quite vocal Jewish 
organisations concerned with equal rights.  But it is also true that there are a
lot of Jews who have nothing to do with those organisations, are not particularly
observant (if at all), and yet for you, their Jewishness is still their most
salient characteristic.  Now why is that, Mr. Smith?  Do you want to get into
the nitty-gritty of genetically determined behaviours here, or are you just
going to reiterate the same old stereotypes one more time?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov  7 08:49:58 PST 1996
Article: 44261 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 16:48:06 GMT
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Subject: Re: Which "KEN" is NOT among us...?
Lines: 21


ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:

>In article <847137845$19297@atype.com>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith)
>writes:

>>The only people in WWII who
>>fought communists WERE White nationalists, of course. 

>ROFLMAO!  I gotta tell you little brianazi, watching you little netnazis
>twist the historical record can be downright entertaining...especially
>when you try to explain hitler's stupid invasion of the soviet union.

Actually Arlin, I find their efforts to explain Hitler's *pact* with
the Soviet Union prior to the invasion in 1941 far more entertaining.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  8 12:00:35 PST 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 17:03:05 GMT
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Subject: Re: "Backwoods" Mike Vanderboegh: LIAR, HYPOCRITE,INADEQUATE FOOL
Lines: 30


anndaltyn@aol.com (AnnDaltyn) wrote:

[...]

>Sure just rant and fill your posting quota some more Arlin.  Unlike you
>and you led by your masters strings.  We are individual National Alliance
>members acting idependantly.  We report to no one we just have to follow
>the honor code of the NA etc..  While you Arlin on the other had in order
>to keep your masters happy have to follow the talmud in its teaching to be
>dishonest, a cheat and a rapist if neccesary as long as it never gets

Hey Ann, could you cite the edition(s), volume (s) and page number(s) for  
the places in the Talmud where dishonesty, cheating (isn't that redundant,
by the way?) and rape are proscribed?  Or did you pick this up from some
of Papa Pierce's delightful antisemitic drivel?

>traced back to harm Isreal..  Sick sick Arlin..

Oh, and by the way, Arlin, your last weekly report is overdue, you know.
Better get that in prontito or we'll have to turn the laser thought control
rays up to a higher frequency.

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  8 12:00:36 PST 1996
Article: 44285 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 15:33:21 GMT
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Subject: Re: Wizard is Covert Nizkor Agent - Beware
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ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:

>In article <847207087$566@atype.com>, Laura Finsten
> writes:

>>Arlin the sweatshirt line of products is not available yet, but you might
>>be able to get a t-shirt.  To check them out, take a look at
>>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad/zog-1.html

>Thanks Laura!  how about coffee cups?  you folks have coffee cups?

Oooo great idea, Arlin!  Why not send it along to the ZOG products
marketing and development division?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  8 12:00:36 PST 1996
Article: 44333 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 20:03:06 GMT
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ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:
>
>In article <847271003$6515@atype.com>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith)
>writes:

>>To the contrary.  The American nation when it was exclusively White
>>was far more progressive, cleaner, safer, healthier, and united:  all
>>BECAUSE it was White and xenophobic.

When was the American nation "exclusively White"?  When natives started
getting sick and dying in massive numbers, African slaves were imported.
There never has been an "exclusively White" nation, in real terms.

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov  8 12:00:37 PST 1996
Article: 44448 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Fri, 8 Nov 96 18:48:28 GMT
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Robert Ireland  wrote:

>AHABIZ wrote:
 
>> In article <847207087$566@atype.com>, Laura Finsten
>>  writes:
 
>> >Arlin the sweatshirt line of products is not available yet, but you might
>> >be able to get a t-shirt.  To check them out, take a look at
>> >http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad/zog-1.html
 
>> Thanks Laura!  how about coffee cups?  you folks have coffee cups?


>Beer coasters, I want beer coasters.  Laura, I'll pay extra if you
>autograph them.


I don't know why we didn't think of this before. I'll have to talk to 
the Elders, but I'm sure they'll go for an idea like this.  It is
really expensive, after all, running such a massive conspiracy and 
the entire universe all at once.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:37:59 PST 1996
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 18:59:34 GMT
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Actually, it wasn't so bad.  I used my PhD to drive her to a real doctor.
>: But do tell the Stephen Leacock story.  I could use a chuckle.

> I certainly can't tell it as well as Leacock.

>He'd just got his doctorate and was pleased as punch about it.  On a
>voyage to Europe he signed his name on the ship's register as 'Dr
>Leacock'.  About halfway across he was called on to attend a young
>and pretty fellow passenger who had fallen ill.  He rushed over but
>found that a Doctor of Divinity had got there first.

>(Para mas carcajadas debes leer los escritos de un cierto gusano
>comecola.)

Sea posible que nuestro gusanon favorito excede de Leacock en la cantidad
de carcajadas por palabra, pero es claro que Leacock gana en la calidad.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:38:00 PST 1996
Article: 78956 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 19:02:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56004j$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <32823811.1E5A@conterra.com> <55th3v$pb5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <328270D6.5CB6@conterra.com> <55v78q$reb@news1.ucsd.edu>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:35201 alt.politics.white-power:48781 alt.revisionism:78956 alt.skinheads:42004



>: william c anderson wrote:
 
>: > Bob Whitaker (bwhit@conterra.com) wrote:
  
>: > :      This is the first time I have been informed that Finsten makes her
>: > : living pushing this Politically Correct crap.
  
>: > Yes, that's right, Bob--Ms Finsten IS Mommy Professor.  You've
>: > uncovered the awful truth at last.

Rats. My cover is blown.
  
>: > Tremble in fear, Mortal, before She Who Must Be Obeyed...

Oooohhhh I just love the power....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:38:01 PST 1996
Article: 78996 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 20:03:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5603mq$4d5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <558h2b$kcc@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca> <559qtv$vo1@opera.iinet.net.au> <3278C199.C34@conterra.com> <55dc0v$bvs@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328204A2.7CBB@conterra.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:35232 alt.politics.white-power:48818 alt.revisionism:78996 alt.skinheads:42047

Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     What in the hell is some ego cripple doing on the net putting PhD
>or MD or OBC aft er his name?  Who gives a flying horsehockey?
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe the correct term is "horsepuck(e)y".  It's gonna take a while
for you southerners to catch on.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:46:44 PST 1996
Article: 35192 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 18:59:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55vvum$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <55m6hv$nrb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55qpul$5oe@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Actually, it wasn't so bad.  I used my PhD to drive her to a real doctor.
>: But do tell the Stephen Leacock story.  I could use a chuckle.

> I certainly can't tell it as well as Leacock.

>He'd just got his doctorate and was pleased as punch about it.  On a
>voyage to Europe he signed his name on the ship's register as 'Dr
>Leacock'.  About halfway across he was called on to attend a young
>and pretty fellow passenger who had fallen ill.  He rushed over but
>found that a Doctor of Divinity had got there first.

>(Para mas carcajadas debes leer los escritos de un cierto gusano
>comecola.)

Sea posible que nuestro gusanon favorito excede de Leacock en la cantidad
de carcajadas por palabra, pero es claro que Leacock gana en la calidad.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:46:46 PST 1996
Article: 35201 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 19:02:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56004j$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <32823811.1E5A@conterra.com> <55th3v$pb5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <328270D6.5CB6@conterra.com> <55v78q$reb@news1.ucsd.edu>
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>: william c anderson wrote:
 
>: > Bob Whitaker (bwhit@conterra.com) wrote:
  
>: > :      This is the first time I have been informed that Finsten makes her
>: > : living pushing this Politically Correct crap.
  
>: > Yes, that's right, Bob--Ms Finsten IS Mommy Professor.  You've
>: > uncovered the awful truth at last.

Rats. My cover is blown.
  
>: > Tremble in fear, Mortal, before She Who Must Be Obeyed...

Oooohhhh I just love the power....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:46:48 PST 1996
Article: 35232 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 20:03:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5603mq$4d5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <558h2b$kcc@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca> <559qtv$vo1@opera.iinet.net.au> <3278C199.C34@conterra.com> <55dc0v$bvs@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328204A2.7CBB@conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:35232 alt.politics.white-power:48818 alt.revisionism:78996 alt.skinheads:42047

Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     What in the hell is some ego cripple doing on the net putting PhD
>or MD or OBC aft er his name?  Who gives a flying horsehockey?
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe the correct term is "horsepuck(e)y".  It's gonna take a while
for you southerners to catch on.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:54:49 PST 1996
Article: 41993 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 18:59:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55vvum$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <55m6hv$nrb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55qpul$5oe@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Actually, it wasn't so bad.  I used my PhD to drive her to a real doctor.
>: But do tell the Stephen Leacock story.  I could use a chuckle.

> I certainly can't tell it as well as Leacock.

>He'd just got his doctorate and was pleased as punch about it.  On a
>voyage to Europe he signed his name on the ship's register as 'Dr
>Leacock'.  About halfway across he was called on to attend a young
>and pretty fellow passenger who had fallen ill.  He rushed over but
>found that a Doctor of Divinity had got there first.

>(Para mas carcajadas debes leer los escritos de un cierto gusano
>comecola.)

Sea posible que nuestro gusanon favorito excede de Leacock en la cantidad
de carcajadas por palabra, pero es claro que Leacock gana en la calidad.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:54:51 PST 1996
Article: 42004 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 19:02:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56004j$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <32823811.1E5A@conterra.com> <55th3v$pb5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <328270D6.5CB6@conterra.com> <55v78q$reb@news1.ucsd.edu>
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>: william c anderson wrote:
 
>: > Bob Whitaker (bwhit@conterra.com) wrote:
  
>: > :      This is the first time I have been informed that Finsten makes her
>: > : living pushing this Politically Correct crap.
  
>: > Yes, that's right, Bob--Ms Finsten IS Mommy Professor.  You've
>: > uncovered the awful truth at last.

Rats. My cover is blown.
  
>: > Tremble in fear, Mortal, before She Who Must Be Obeyed...

Oooohhhh I just love the power....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov  9 05:54:53 PST 1996
Article: 42047 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 20:03:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5603mq$4d5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <558h2b$kcc@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca> <559qtv$vo1@opera.iinet.net.au> <3278C199.C34@conterra.com> <55dc0v$bvs@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328204A2.7CBB@conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:35232 alt.politics.white-power:48818 alt.revisionism:78996 alt.skinheads:42047

Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     What in the hell is some ego cripple doing on the net putting PhD
>or MD or OBC aft er his name?  Who gives a flying horsehockey?
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe the correct term is "horsepuck(e)y".  It's gonna take a while
for you southerners to catch on.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 06:53:41 PST 1996
Article: 79032 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Another tactic of liberals (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
Date: 5 Nov 1996 22:53:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <55oghm$1uv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55dn4d$jrq@lex.zippo.com> <55l4pm$7dc@news1.ucsd.edu> <55lgq9$djc@lex.zippo.com>
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Ourobouros wrote:

[...]

>The occasion [note: singular] that you have done so was when you agreed 
>that "Brown's" comment concerning that I knew all prospective anthropology
>doctors [their theses in other words] was valid.

Can anybody translate this into something that more than vaguely resembles
English?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:01:38 PST 1996
Article: 48773 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 18:59:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <55vvum$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <55m6hv$nrb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55qpul$5oe@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Actually, it wasn't so bad.  I used my PhD to drive her to a real doctor.
>: But do tell the Stephen Leacock story.  I could use a chuckle.

> I certainly can't tell it as well as Leacock.

>He'd just got his doctorate and was pleased as punch about it.  On a
>voyage to Europe he signed his name on the ship's register as 'Dr
>Leacock'.  About halfway across he was called on to attend a young
>and pretty fellow passenger who had fallen ill.  He rushed over but
>found that a Doctor of Divinity had got there first.

>(Para mas carcajadas debes leer los escritos de un cierto gusano
>comecola.)

Sea posible que nuestro gusanon favorito excede de Leacock en la cantidad
de carcajadas por palabra, pero es claro que Leacock gana en la calidad.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:01:39 PST 1996
Article: 48781 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 19:02:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56004j$t88@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <550915$pv1@news1.panix.com> <555vkb$pfh@grivel.une.edu.au>  <2NOV199616102444@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <55ibhn$52d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <55kmeb$6m9@news1.ucsd.edu> <32823811.1E5A@conterra.com> <55th3v$pb5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <328270D6.5CB6@conterra.com> <55v78q$reb@news1.ucsd.edu>
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>: william c anderson wrote:
 
>: > Bob Whitaker (bwhit@conterra.com) wrote:
  
>: > :      This is the first time I have been informed that Finsten makes her
>: > : living pushing this Politically Correct crap.
  
>: > Yes, that's right, Bob--Ms Finsten IS Mommy Professor.  You've
>: > uncovered the awful truth at last.

Rats. My cover is blown.
  
>: > Tremble in fear, Mortal, before She Who Must Be Obeyed...

Oooohhhh I just love the power....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:01:40 PST 1996
Article: 48818 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 8 Nov 1996 20:03:38 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     What in the hell is some ego cripple doing on the net putting PhD
>or MD or OBC aft er his name?  Who gives a flying horsehockey?
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe the correct term is "horsepuck(e)y".  It's gonna take a while
for you southerners to catch on.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:44 PST 1996
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ahabiz@aol.com wrote:

>In article <847412327$19427@atype.com>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith)
>writes:

>>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>>When was the American nation "exclusively White"?  When natives started
>>>getting sick and dying in massive numbers, African slaves were imported.
>>>There never has been an "exclusively White" nation, in real terms.

>>Exclusively White meaning Whites EXCLUDED non-Whites from
>>participation in White political and social life -- non-Whites were
>>marginalized.  America used to be exclusively White.  

>oh look, Laura! brianazi is playing Humptey Dumptey with the English
>language again!

It's cute, isn't Arlin, the way so many of them have names ending in "n".
Yeah, this kind of linguistic backpedalling is rather amusing.  So by 
Brian's own definition, then, America was exclusively "White" until very
recently, and there are major parts of it that still are exclusively
"White" for all intents and purposes.  Sounds to me like they have their
"White homeland" then, so what are they waiting for?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>>>We'll figure it out Mrs. Finsten.

>>Given that you seem to have leapt to the (erroneous) conclusion that I
>>am Jewish, my confidence in your ability to do so is not great.  

>You espouse the Jewish interest, you sign your name with Emma
>Goldstein, and your name is Finsten, similar to Feinstein.  Concluding
>"Jewish" is not a wild guess.  

Well, it just goes to show you the problems with leaping to conclusions,
doesn't it, Mr. Smith.  I "leapt" to the conclusion that you are posting
under two names, neither of which is probably your real name, because
"Kurt Stele" signed your name and web-site ad to one of his posts.  And,
it turns out, that coincidentally you and Kurtsy also changed from the
same service provider to the same new service provider on the same day.
You post out of the same place, too.  Do you believe in coincidence,
Mr. Smith?

Since when is anti-fascism "the Jewish interest", Mr. Smith?  If I assume
for the time being that your name really is Brian Smith, would I be 
correct in concluding that you are Anglican (Smith is an English name,
most English are Church of England)?  Or perhaps that you or your ancestors
Anglicised the German name Schmidt?  Smith is similar to Schmidt, after all.

And its Emma "Goldman", Brian, not "Goldstein".

>>A major
>>difficulty seems to be the fact that you are confusing minor differences
>>in gene frequencies between populations with genetic markers that
>>distinguish races.  I mean really, in practical terms, imagine a scenario
>>where I am required to prove that I am not Jewish.  How would I do that?

>Appearance is very determinative.  Also background.  Also, if you are
>Jewish you probably won't even apply for entrance into a White nation
>to begin with, because Jewish influence, customs, and norms will be
>prohibited.   That fact will be an effective deterrent in itself.

Please do be more specific about the physical features that distinguish
Jews from "Whites", Mr. Smith.  And what exactly do you mean by "background"?
One Jewish parent?  Will you consider mischlinges of various orders to
be Jewish, irrespective of their religious beliefs, customs and whatever?
Even Hitler's regime was a little less strident than that, although the
Nazis were far from consistent on that count.

>Obviously, if you have a large hooked nose and a well-known Jewish

I do know a fair number of Jewish people and you know, not a one of them
has a large hooked nose!!!  Or even a small hooked nose!

>last name, you probably will presumed Jewish, a rebuttable inference.

And how exactly would one be able to rebut the inference, Mr. Smith?
I mean, look at what you did with my last name, after all.  (It is
Scandinavian, actually.  But you don't even know that it is indicative
of my genetic heritage, do you.  It could be my married name, after all.
My maiden name might be Smith or Jones.)

>If a few Whites get excluded that is a small price to pay for
>separation.

I doubt that those so excluded would think so. 

>Even if some non-White fake their way through, the goal of separating
>what is left of the White race from further dissolution will still be
>achieved.  That is the main goal.  We can handle a few questionables
>as long as a White gene pool is separated from this multiracial
>sludge.   Seen in this light, distinguishing between White and
>non-White is not a problem at all.

This sounds rather as if you would implement restrictive prohibitions 
on reproduction, Mr. Smith.  That in order to guard against further
"contamination" of the "White gene pool", anyone whose "Whiteness"
was in question would not be allowed to have children.  You NA types
seem to be heavily into controlled reproduction and eugenics.

But of course saying that you would separate the "White gene pool"
>from  the "multiracial sludge" doesn't tell us anything at all about
*how* you would determine which individuals fall into each of these
two charming if ill-defined categories, does it.

>>Of course, I imagine that I wouldn't be "White", anyway, in National
>>Appliance terms, because my ideology is all wrong.  If The Turner Diaries
>>is any sort of benchmark, the vast majority of North Americans (exclusive
>>of Mexico) aren't "White" enough for the National Appliance.  

>Please be specific in your claims.   Where does it say in the Turner
>Diaries what you are claiming?

Well I don't have my downloaded copy at hand.  But as I recall,  actors
whose performances didn't meet certain "moral standards" were strung up
>from  light posts, together with academics whose scholarship was somehow
unacceptable.  And I think that this included almost all academics.
Anyone who thought that racial cleansing was not a proper American
thing to do likewise was written off.  The list is very lengthy and I
can't remember the details.  I'll get back to you on this if you like
once I've had a chance to look through it again.  I was truly enthralled 
by the book.  It presents quite a vision and I think it should be widely 
read. 

>>What I find
>>really fascinating about National Appliance racial politics is the way
>>an individual's "race" can change over the course of their lives, and the
>>way genetically identical people (identical twins) theoretically can belong
>>to different races.  It truly is amazing!!  

>How so?

Well, if a person were to convert to Judaism they couldn't be "White" anymore,
could they.  Even more bizarre, "White" folks could give birth to a "non-
White" child, if that child turned out to be bisexual or homosexual.  

>>>White values are those which dominate and reflect the soul of the
>>>European people, and are appear in Whites most prevalently in White
>>>societies.  Honor, valor, chivalry, altruism (no other races possess
>>>as much altriusm as Whites do, and it being exploited), empathy,
>>>adventure, discovery, love of Nature.

>>Yeah, I can see that you're so "empathetic" and "honourable" that you think
>>you can identify my religion and/or ethnic background based on a couple of
>>posts.  You actually believe this ethnocentric nonsense, don't you?  

>Well, are you Jewish or not Mrs. "Finsten"?

This is a very interesting answer to my question.  But you know what, 
Brian?  Even though you've blatantly and rather clumsily evaded my question,
I'm going to answer yours.  First, though, I'll tell you that you don't
need to put the quotation marks around my last name.  It is my real name.

The answer to your question is this:  I am not now nor have I ever been
Jewish.  If it makes you feel better, I'll go even further:  Neither of
my parents is now or ever has been Jewish.  And as I told your colleague
Kevin Strom, I'll be sure to let all of usenet know if I ever decide to
convert.  

>>>Many are values contrast
>>>sharply to the Jewish values of materialism, commercialism, and
>>>cosmopolitanism which have been unnaturally and destructively imposed
>>>on Whites.  However, the Japanese did create an honor code, similar to
>>>Europeans, and I respect them for that.

>>This I find amusingly ironic.  Jews are responsible for both commercialism
>>and communism?????  Do you know anything about the roots of mercantilism
>>and why it was so important in the history of Europe?  Why do I have the
>>feeling you are defining "cosmopolitanism" in "racial" rather than cultural
>>and linguistic terms?  

>Jews did not "create" commercialism -- they simply value it higher
>than Whites as a race do when Whites live in a homogenous White
>society.  

Please provide some historical documentation to support this assertion,
Brian.  I can't accept it as true just because you say so.

>Communism, on the other hand, is based on Marxism.   Marx
>was a Jew.  Bolshevism was a predominantly Jewish affair.

You seem to be claiming that communism is a genetic condition, then,
since Marx was an atheist and had a lot of pretty nasty things to
say about Judaism particularly, and about religion more generally.

So if communism is a genetic condition, is it caused by some gene or
groups of genes that are exclusive to Jews, twentieth century Chinese,
Sandanistas, Cubans, and people of European descent who join communist
parties?

>>>A stereotype which contradicts existing propaganda reflects a general
>>>truth:  otherwise it couldn't exist.  The stereotype of the Jewish

>>Uh Mr. Smith, the same stereotype, however, did *not* contradict existing
>>propaganda in Germany and its occupied territories in the 1930s and 1940s.
>>So does that then mean that the stereotype couldn't exist then????

>Note the stereotype of the money-grubbing Jew existed long before Nazi
>Germany, and in fact has always existed.

You're repeating yourself, Brian, and not addressing the contradiction
I pointed out.  Try to focus on the contradiction.  The same stereotype
was a part of propaganda during the Nazi era.  It did not *contradict*
existing propaganda but was instead a part of it.  How, then, does
your statement that stereotypes which contradict propaganda reflect
general truths support the truthfulness of this stereotype?  Stereotypes
by definition are not truthful, though, you know, Bri.  

>>>That is not what I mean by "cohesion" in this context.  Vis a vis the
>>>White race and non-Jews generally, Jews are cohesive.  

>>Funny thing that.  Events in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s seem to have made
>>an impression on them: that they couldn't count on their governments to look
>>out for their basic rights, and that ignoring strident antisemitic rhetoric
>>could quite literally be deadly.  

>Whatever the reason Jews have always been highly cohesive as a people
>and have always put allegiance to their own above their host country.

This simply is not true.  The primary reason so few German Jews left
Germany when the Nazis rose to power, despite the increasingly ominous
signs, was because they were loyal to Germany (and many had demonstrated
this in various ways, including distinguished military service during
World War I) and assumed, wrongly it turns out, that most Germans would
recognise that.

>They also have the unique ability to network across national lines and
>posess the finances to profoundly influence over domestic and
>international affairs -- to enforce the Jewish agenda on a global
>scale.  The Jew is a danger to the White man and now stands on the
>verge of destroying the White man for all time.

Gee Brian, you must be Jewish, because you are networking across national
boundaries.  You oughta get your paranoia checked, Brian.  It is really
disturbing the way you swallow this antisemitic b.s. hook, line, and sinker.
Or maybe you haven't learned critical thinking yet?  

>>Oh, I forgot that you think the Holocaust
>>is a myth.  Is it only the 6 million dead Jews that you think is a lie, or
>>do you think that the 6 million dead Gypsies, homosexuals, Poles, labour
>>unionists, prisoners of war and others are also a lie, Mr. Smith?

>The holocaust numbers are grossly exaggerated.  Extermination by
>gassing is a myth.  The "Holocaust" is a political tool of anti-White
>propaganda to secure benefits for the Jews and morally bludgeon Whites
>into compliance with the Jewish agenda.

Well, this isn't the place to debate the Holocaust numbers.  I will make
two observations on this though: (1) would you clarify please whether you
believe not only that the number of dead Jews at the Nazi regime's hands
is "grossly exaggerated", but also that the number of dead Poles, Gypsies,
homosexuals, mentally ill, Soviet POWS etc. (the other six million), is 
also fabricated as a political tool.  (Once you answer this, the next
question will be why exaggeration of the latter would fulfill this purpose.
So you can start thinking about that one in advance).  (2)  are you aware
that the Russians have just in the past week or two released a whole bunch
of archival material to the USHMM, and that the *Russian* scholars say the
number of deaths attributable to the Nazis  (11-12 million) may be *too low*?

Secure benefits.  The Polish Jews who survived were not even able to get their
houses and furniture back.  The reparations paid by Germany to Israel were based
on the *survivorship* figures, NOT the death toll.  So how is this a "benefit"?

>>It is certainly true that there are a number of active and quite vocal Jewish 
>>organisations concerned with equal rights.  But it is also true that there are a
>>lot of Jews who have nothing to do with those organisations, are not particularly
>>observant (if at all), and yet for you, their Jewishness is still their most
>>salient characteristic.  Now why is that, Mr. Smith?  Do you want to get into
>>the nitty-gritty of genetically determined behaviours here, or are you just
>>going to reiterate the same old stereotypes one more time?

>Whatever the details are Mrs. Finsten, Jews further their own
>interests as a people.  It is a very basic fact, one that follows, is
>logical, and has repeated itself time and time again.  

>The agenda of the Jewish establishment, which favors multiracialism,

This is the most bizarre interpretation I have ever come across.  Most
Jewish organisations favour *equal rights*, yes.  Hardly surprising,
too, since it isn't that long ago that Jews were also the object of
clearly discriminatory laws, if not in your country, certainly in mine.

If you want to pretend that your country wasn't "multiracial" until
the Civil Rights Amendment, I'll leave you to your fantasy.  

>is completely incompatible with the health and welfare of the White
>race for obvious reasons.  Whites must liberate themselves from Jewish
>influence if they wish to survive as a people.

Sure Bri.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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Uh, Hummer, I don't *write* reports, I'm the boss, remember?  Gotta
keep these stories straight....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>Hey Ann, could you cite the edition(s), volume (s) and page number(s) for  
>>the places in the Talmud where dishonesty, cheating (isn't that redundant,
>>by the way?) and rape are proscribed?  Or did you pick this up from some
>>of Papa Pierce's delightful antisemitic drivel?

>Just hold on to your stomach.  

Sure Bri.  I'm really impressed about how you were able to go through
all sixteen volumes (or is it 17? 14?  I can't remember) so quickly
to cull these few quotations and page references.

>This study is based on the Jewish-authorized, English translation of
>the Babylonian Talmud: the Soncino edition. Every selection we cite is
>documented directly from the text of the authoritative Soncino Talmud.
>We have published herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish
>Talmud. Look them up for yourself. To verify the Talmud passages
>cited, refer to the Soncino edition Talmud, which may be found in
>large university and seminary libraries. The Soncino Talmud may also
>be purchased from book dealers.

I will indeed do this some day, if I can ever find the time, because
I do have a sneaking suspicion that the quotations, where there are
any, have been taken out of context in such a way as to alter their
meaning.

But since you were able to answer my question to Ann so promptly, I'll
ask another one.  This one might be a little harder, but I'm sure
you can do it.

Now for each of these citations, what has been the nature of Talmudic
debate over the last couple of centuries about their interpretation?
In other words, please summarise the opposing major interpretations
of each one.  You do know, don't you, that the Talmud has been subject
to intense debate, and that its interpretation and debate is central
to religious training in Judaism, don't you?

>Non-Jews are Not Human Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Only Jews are human
>("Only ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the
>sub-head, "Oil of Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women
>are designated animals ("she-asses").

>Jews are Divine Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the
>Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

>O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a Gentile
>("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

>Jews Have Superior Legal Status Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an
>Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an
>ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be
>in full."

>Jews May Steal from Non-Jews Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object
>lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned.
>(Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).

>Sanhedrin 76a . God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to
>an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost
>article to a Cuthean..."

>Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a
>Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals
>from a Gentile he may keep.

>Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God
>has "exposed their money to Israel."

>Jews May Lie to Non-Jews Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies
>("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

>Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are
>animals.

>Abodah Zarah 36b . Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from
>birth.

>Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

>Abodah Zarah 67b . "The vessels of Gentiles, do they not impart a
>worsened flavor to the food cooked in them?"

Ever eat in a kosher deli, Bri?

>Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4) is being boiled "hot
>excrement".

>Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New
>Testament books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish
>History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).
>
>Yebamoth 63a . Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

Like Christianity declared that moneylending was too low for Christians?

[...a couple of quotes snipped because my newsreader requires a
minimum 50 percent new content or it won't post]

>This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The
>Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the
>reading has been altered, The best among the Egyptians being generally
>substituted." In the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens"
>(Minor Tractates, Soferim 41a-b]. Israelis annually take part in a
>national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this
>rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. ("Jewish Press" of
>June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

>On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an
>orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians,
>including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein
>was a disciple of the late Rabbi Kahane who has stated that his view
>of Arabs as "dogs" is "from the Talmud." (Cf. CBS "60 Minutes",
>"Kahane").

This is from the Talmud?  Yes, it is tragic that humans from whatever
background can be obsessed with hatred and use religion to justify
their sickness.  Religion has been used to justify horrific crimes
so often.

>Univ. of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldsteins
>philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence
>against "goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26,
>1994, p. 5).

Well, hell, Bri, this isn't from the Talmud, either.  Uh, did Professor
Sprinzak say he thought that Kahane's philosophy was legitimate,
or that his murderous actions based on this philosophy were either
justifiable or acceptable?

>Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish
>blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June
>6, 1989, p.5). Rabbi Yaacov Perrin says, "One million Arabs are not
>worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

Hmmmm, this isn't the Talmud either.  Are you surprised, Bri, that
there are extreme orthodox Jews, much as their are extreme orthodox
Muslims and extreme Christian sects, too?  Why do you think that the
extremes define the norm for Jews but not for Christians?  I'm 
surprised that you seem oblivious to the tensions among the various
factions of Judaism, since they are central to the mess in Israel
at present.

>------end text-------

Oh, I see, you clipped this from somewhere and pasted it in.  I guess
I'm not so impressed by your research skills after all.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:48 PST 1996
Article: 44670 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 21:18:22 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:
 
>>When was the American nation "exclusively White"?  When natives started
>>getting sick and dying in massive numbers, African slaves were imported.
>>There never has been an "exclusively White" nation, in real terms.
 
>Exclusively White meaning Whites EXCLUDED non-Whites from
>participation in White political and social life -- non-Whites were
>marginalized.  America used to be exclusively White.  

And by this standard, it was a single-sex nation, since women were
excluded from the political process and many aspects of social life
and earlier this century.  Interesting concept, no?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:50 PST 1996
Article: 44673 of misc.activism.militia
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>smaceach@polar.Bowdoin.EDU (Scott MacEachern) wrote:

>>rbdwsn  wrote:

>>>Brian, we're slowly converting him. Pretty soon he'll be calling his 
>>>negro classmates boneheads!:)

>>Oh, I doubt that. If I compare the Aryans on this group to the
>>Africans and African-Americans that I know -- students, colleagues and
>>friends --- the Africans come out waaaayyyyy ahead on intelligence,
>>general knowledge of the world and personability. Not that I think
>>that Europeans are dumber as a group than Africans, mind you -- just
>>that National Alliance seems to self-select for stupid people. Guess
>>that your bosses are more comfortable that way...


>Notice how Scott always REFUSES to use -- as the proper representative
>of the Black race -- the average "Negro" as he is found in nature:  in
>Africa.   

Uh Bri???  I think that, given how much time Scott has spent in Africa,
that probably is exactly what he is referring to.  Africans in Africa.
By the way, how many have you known, Bri?  Africans in Africa, I mean.


>That slippery Scott.

That reading impaired Brian.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:50 PST 1996
Article: 44674 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 21:48:05 GMT
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Subject: Re: Don't ban the nazis, WHUP ON 'EM!
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cutter001@aol.com wrote:

>In article <84227793$2710@atype.com> Arleen writes:

[...]

>>first off, as the examples of your fellow netnazis here in the newsgroup
>have shown, the notional appliance recruits primarily for not overly
>bright antisocial paranoids.

>Sorry, Wrong again Arleen.  Whenever I've had the opportunity to question
>members of the National Alliance they have always seemed to be "overly
>bright", they were quite sociable, and more relaxed about talking about
>"sensative" topics then most people.  They also never tried to avoid the
>question or change the subject like some (I won't mention any names,
>Arleen), and they never accused me of being "the enemy" because I
>questioned them.

Hmmmm, well that's interesting.  At least one of the people posting here
who explicitly allies himself with the National Alliance regularly avoids
my questions.  One example, Brian Smith accused me of posting under two
names but has avoided answering my question about what if any evidence
he has to support his allegation.  And the minute I appeared here asking
Brian Smith and Ann Daltyn questions about the claims on their posts,
Smith claimed that he wouldn't discuss some matters with a Jew and Daltyn
called me an "admit[t[ed Niz[c]or member", neither of which is true.  In
other words, they seem to have assumed that I am "the enemy".  Now why do
you think that would be?

>Wrong again, It seems to me that you seem to be the one having a hard time
>dealing with uncomfortable realities.  You show this by refusing attempts
>at civilized discussion, name-calling, and lumping all the people who
>believe differently than you together no matter how many times you are

Well that's funny, because "all those people be believe differently" wax
poetic about the National Alliance and in answer to a question I posed
to Ann Daltyn, Brian Smith posted some stuff that clearly he had cut and
pasted from somewhere else.  Sounds a lot like working together and from
prefabricated material to me.

And why do they all lump everyone who disagrees with them into the
category of Jew/Jew-dupe, Nizkor/ADL/SWC etc. slug?  Just their great
individual minds working on parallel streams?

>told that these people are just individuals.  Then YOU simply "blame
>everything on a conspiracy" and try to bolster you own feelings of
>"superiority" by trying to belittle others.  Arleen, you are a case study
>in hypocrisy.

Seems like you might suffer that yourself, Mr./Ms. Cutup.  They clearly
"blame everything on the JOOOOOOOOS".


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:51 PST 1996
Article: 44675 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 22:48:06 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:


>A people acting in concert for the same agenda is not a difficult task
>at all -- and occurs quite naturally.   The Jewish establishment acts
>in concert for the same goals and values.   The Jewish media boses,
>for example, all propagate the same messages of race-mixing,
>"diversity," and anti-White political correctness, without exception.

Well it sure looks like we don't have much unanimity here on the
agenda at all, does it Bri?  Arlin wants a sweatshirt or coffee cups, 
Robert would like autographed beer coasters, jrs wants a baseball cap 
with a helikopter rotor on it.  Don't see much action in concert here.

On a slightly more serious note, you're full of shit, Bri.  What exactly
is the "Jewish establishment"?  And why do you hold all Jews responsible
for whatever it is that comes out of various Jewish organisations,
anyway?  I mean hell, Bri, do you blame every Catholic for the lunacies
of the Pope?

>Mrs. Finsten, you seem to think it is "paranoid" for one to believe
>the proposition that people of the same group can both possess and
>work for the same goals.  However, shares values and concerted effort
>by members of the same group isn't strange or difficult at all -- and
>is in fact, quite the norm.

No, Bri, I don't think you're getting my point, which doesn't surprise
me.  I think you're paranoid because (1) you think that Jews all have
the same beliefs outside their religious ones, and that those beliefs
make them evil, (2) you think that the Holocaust is a hoax, and this
implies a massive-scale conspiracy involving thousands, perhaps
hundreds of thousands of people of various nationalities and religions,
all of whom have kept the secret lo these 50 years.  Such a conspiracy
would require a degree of penetration of and control over political,
military and other institutions that simply is not credible, except to 
the paranoid.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:52 PST 1996
Article: 44760 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 19:03:15 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]
   
>The White problem with the Jews, and why the Jewish presence is
>incompatible with White survival, is that the Jews "preach", (through
>their profoundly influential media) non-racial and anti-racial
>doctrines to Whites, which Whites then buy into.

Brian, Brian, Brian.  I just can't believe that you're dumb enough
to buy into this crap wholesale.  But then I have been told that I
sometimes go too far in giving people the benefit of the doubt.
You do indeed seem to think that you've magically divined some
truth that nobody else has been smart enough to twig onto.  A bit
presumptuous, aren't you?  

>The flaw of libertarianism is that it will never succeed because races
>as a whole will never subordinate their racial loyalty and group
>identities (biological instinct) to a mere intellectual philosophy of
>individualism.

You haven't been paying attention to Scott's lessons about "races",
have you, Bri.  Your notion of "racial loyalty" is nothing more than
a philosophy founded in the fascist politics.

>Ironic to your quote, Jews are really the ONLY ones in the West who
>are striving to make certain thoughts a crime -- and Jews have already
>succeeded in criminalizing Holocaust denial in Europe in classic
>Orwellian style.  If one expresses "doubt" about the Holocaust, one is
>sent to prison for up to five years.   Jews are also in the vanguard
>of Orwellian "hate crime" laws -- where if one says something deemed
>offensive by a minority (usually Jews report the most "offenses"),
>than one will then be prosecuted under criminal law.

A couple of problems here.  Nobody can be prosecuted for what they
"think", only for what they do with what they think.  Unless you
actually believe that it is possible to read minds, quite literally.

Germany does indeed have laws against Holocaust denial, and I note
that many people, including Jews, have spoken out against those laws.
But how many other European countries have such laws, Brian?  The
Labour Party in the UK has said that it would pass such a law if it
wins the next election, but there is no law against Holocaust denial
at present.  What about Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France?
Faurisson hasn't been charged or imprisoned, to my knowledge.

How many countries actually *have* these "hate laws", Brian?  Canada
does, I know, but they have rarely been used, and there has only been
one conviction under them that I am aware of.  School teacher lying
to his history students, and he certainly was not sent to prison.

It strikes me that you are exaggerating the extent of laws against
Holocaust denial and of hatred in speech.  And it also occurs to me
that you are overplaying the role of Jewish organisations in these
areas.  And ignoring the fact that many Jews and other *non-racists* 
and people who do not deny the historicity of the Holocaust have 
spoken out against such laws, and in many cases taken quite vocal
stances against them. 

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 07:24:53 PST 1996
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 15:33:04 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>>>Dear Laura/Annie.  I don't speak for Les Griswold or anyone but
>>>myself, thank you.  

>>If you have any evidence that I am posting under two different
>>names, please do provide it.  If someone is posting under my name,
>>I'd like to know about it.  I post under my own name only.  

>>If you are not also posting under the name Kurt Stele, you should
>>know that his userid/address has come up with your name and sig
>>at the bottom.  You might want to do something about that.

>I already explained to them the reason why.   

Now how about explaining why you have accused me of posting under
two different names?  Got any evidence to back up that charge,
or is it pure, unfounded speculation on your part to try to discredit
me?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:33:59 PST 1996
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pka00085@alpha.wvup.wvnet.edu (jrs) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ) wrote:

>>>In article <847207087$566@atype.com>, Laura Finsten
>>> writes:

>>>>Arlin the sweatshirt line of products is not available yet, but you might
>>>>be able to get a t-shirt.  To check them out, take a look at
>>>>http://www1.us.nizkor.org/~fatbroad/zog-1.html

>>>Thanks Laura!  how about coffee cups?  you folks have coffee cups?

>>Oooo great idea, Arlin!  Why not send it along to the ZOG products
>>marketing and development division?

>Hats, Laura. You know , Baseball caps! Got any of those?
>It's all the rage!
>I would REALLY like to have a ZOG baseball cap.

So far we've got coffee cups, beer coasters, and baseball caps.
What do you think, jrs, should we put little helikopter blades 
the caps to make them look like ZOG's blak helikopters?  Or would
that be too kitsch?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:34:00 PST 1996
Article: 44810 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 17:03:04 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>Hitler was a Nordic with blue eyes.  It is YOU who is the brown little
>troll, "Gandhi."   

Where did you hear that Hitler had blue eyes, Brian?  Les Griswold,
former Canadian representative of the NA, used to think (and probably
still does) that Hitler was blond, too.  Must be an interesting
propaganda sheet in the NA files.

>"Gandhi," it must really suck being a mud.  You're a member of a race
>with lesser achievments, a race of squalor, of filth, or predominant
>poverty.  No wonder you want to turn everyone into a person of mixed
>race like yourself.  I bet that would make you feel a whole lot
>better, wouldn't it?

I'll be that Rajiv's *individual* achievements far surpass yours,
Brian.  What does that make *you*?  A loser whose only perceived
hope is attached to the colour of his skin.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:34:01 PST 1996
Article: 44812 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 17:03:11 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>The internet is a public forum.  The newsgroup misc.activism. militia
>is available to be read and participated in by the public.  Now you
>are heavy-handedly moving to strike all "undesirable" voices from a
>public forum -- in a naked dictatorial response of crude supression.

Brian, if you're such a strong supporter of "free speech", why have
National Appliance types like Les Griswold tried to chase me away
>from  the white-power newsgroups?  Seems like a bit of hypocrisy
at work here.    

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:34:02 PST 1996
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 17:03:29 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    Your fellow Politically Correct clones have been insisting that they
>know all socialists are not Communists and all racists are not Nazis. 
>That was after I called them on it, of course.
>    They claim you never say Nazi like this.

Gee, Mr. Whit.  Are you going to answer my question about whether you
are a member of the National Alliance?  

By the way, I think you have a serious problem with pronouns.  You
haven't quite grasped the not-so-subtle but very important differences
in the meanings conveyed by "I", "you" (note that whether this is 
singular or plural must be determined from context, and I'll bet that
makes your head hurt), "they", "he" and "she".  I'm sure if you keep
practicing, though, you'll see some improvement.

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:34:03 PST 1996
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 17:19:25 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847646365$2790@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Wizard is Covert Nizkor Agent - Beware
Lines: 17


"Hummer"  wrote:

>     Sorry, sir !  I just accidentally included you in the group that
>wasn't mailing them in.  You know how harried it is down here in
>accounting.  With all the billions we're sucking out of the masses we're
>lucky to just keep it all in duffel bags.  It won't happen again.

Well see that it doesn't, Hummer.  And don't forget that the Elders
said I could keep half of the premium charge for autographed beer
coasters.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:34:03 PST 1996
Article: 44823 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (c120f148641eabb4cdbe774dc3cb2574)
References: <49363@misc.activism.militia> <847486128$24000@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:847486128$24000@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 17:48:03 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847648083$2857@atype.com>
Subject: Re: AHABIZ Hates Militias And Supports Gun Control
Lines: 21


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>varange@crl.com (Troy Varange) wrote:


[...]

>>The NA are our friends, who stick up for us against
>>the scum who want to suppress the militias.

>Thank you!

You should really be thanking Dave Harman, Brian.  But I
imagine you know that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Nov 10 12:34:04 PST 1996
Article: 44829 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (8f3724d39ffc477f2f91696e57b7f500)
References: <847235913$3582@atype.com> <847418583$19830@atype.com> <847501439$25401@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
X-URL: news:847501439$25401@atype.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Return-Path: news@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 18:48:16 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <847651696$3043@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Black Resettlement Program
Lines: 16


kgrubb@ix.netcom.com (Ken Grubb) wrote:

[...]

>That might take a while.  First we gotta find a Nazi Ninny who CAN
>count to two.

That shouldn't be so hard.  If you can train them to wiggle one toe
for each functioning brain cell...


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 11 10:07:07 PST 1996
Article: 35390 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: PC bigots and books (was Bobby Whitaker - political advisor...)
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:34:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <565ank$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net> <327D0EB1.4FD7@conterra.com> <55n3p5$aom@orion.cybercom.net> <32849D2F.389F@conterra.com> <562pfb$j8t@lex.zippo.com> <32857287.2A18@conterra.com>
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X-URL: news:32857287.2A18@conterra.com
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:48962 alt.discrimination:55761 alt.politics.nationalism.white:35390

Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Ourobouros wrote:


>       You are exactly right.  I've been fighting these PC clowns for
>decades, and I am not about to fall into this game with them.


Way to go guys!!!  Steer clear of that ol' evidence trap.  You'd hate
to shatter your preconceptions by falling into that one!

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor
"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 11 10:07:08 PST 1996
Article: 35394 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:44:07 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com>
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Well, I posted this weeks ago, and it was a response to your
excitement when I posted a list of names of people who are
tenured university faculty engaged in and publishing racist
science and/or philosophy.  If you want to track it backwards,
try Dejanews.

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 11 10:10:59 PST 1996
Article: 48962 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: PC bigots and books (was Bobby Whitaker - political advisor...)
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:34:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <565ank$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net> <327D0EB1.4FD7@conterra.com> <55n3p5$aom@orion.cybercom.net> <32849D2F.389F@conterra.com> <562pfb$j8t@lex.zippo.com> <32857287.2A18@conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:48962 alt.discrimination:55761 alt.politics.nationalism.white:35390

Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Ourobouros wrote:


>       You are exactly right.  I've been fighting these PC clowns for
>decades, and I am not about to fall into this game with them.


Way to go guys!!!  Steer clear of that ol' evidence trap.  You'd hate
to shatter your preconceptions by falling into that one!

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor
"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 11 10:11:00 PST 1996
Article: 48966 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 10 Nov 1996 19:44:07 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com>
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Well, I posted this weeks ago, and it was a response to your
excitement when I posted a list of names of people who are
tenured university faculty engaged in and publishing racist
science and/or philosophy.  If you want to track it backwards,
try Dejanews.

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 13 06:28:00 PST 1996
Article: 79177 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: keyboards aren't kosher
Date: 10 Nov 1996 17:46:17 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5654d9$bu3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55pgus$6mj@news1.gte.net> <3284fddd.20709829@news.txdirect.net>
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X-URL: news:3284fddd.20709829@news.txdirect.net

hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:07:03 GMT, *@*.* (* *) wrote:

>>	They are finished with pig fat added to the polymer coating

>So, who's eating the keyboards, you silly twit?

Harry, really!  This is a major concern for Mr. Giwer because
he so often ends his net stints (or should that be stunts?)
with his face in his keyboard.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 13 06:59:02 PST 1996
Article: 35566 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:45:31 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <56a2ib$smt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <5661um$k8d@clarknet.clark.net> <32875A07.6B22@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>frank@clark.net wrote:
 
>> Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:
>> : Would you like to discuss the evidence that human "races" are (or are not)
>> : monophyletic, Mr. Whit?  Or compare heterozygosity and mtDNA maximum
>> : divergence among human "races" and among subspecies of other primates?
 
>> Don't know about Mr. Bob, but *I* would certainly like to discuss these
>> things. That's why I started the thread in the first place.


>      I notice you're not doing so

I'll just hop right to that, Mr. Whit.  Hate to disappoint you, you know.

Frank, I'm up to my tuchus in work right now.  If you'd like to get this
started, I'll jump in.  Otherwise, maybe you could raise it again in a
month or so when I have a little more time.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 13 06:59:03 PST 1996
Article: 35570 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.mathworks.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 15:22:24 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 
>> Would you like to discuss the evidence that human "races" are (or are not)
>> monophyletic, Mr. Whit?  Or compare heterozygosity and mtDNA maximum
>> divergence among human "races" and among subspecies of other primates?

>    Nobody's impressed.  Are you going to start signing your stuff,
>"PhD" now?

I thought not.

No, and I have never "bragged" about having a PhD, Mr. Whit.  If you care
to do a Dejanews search, you'll find that I have mentioned it in only in the
context of some jokes about pizza.  Some people got the double meaning when
I talked about my pizza homing device with the acronym PhD, and some didn't.

I've been flamed for incompetence and ignorance, and never once trotted out
my degrees as a defence, unlike you.  Unlike you, as well, I let my posts
stand on the quality of my arguments.  But you don't have that option.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 13 06:59:04 PST 1996
Article: 35590 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!btnet-feed2!btnet!netcom.net.uk!data.ramona.vix.com!sonysjc!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 18:48:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56agpe$al9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com> <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328780CE.76B6@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:

My newsreader doesn't allow me the luxury of posting a page of your
drivel with a line of my own text added at the bottom.  It is very
easy to locate a specific post, using the query filter and search,
in Dejanews and then to follow the thread back.

>    Just resist your habit of cutting everything out, and there won't be
>any confusion.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 13 07:20:08 PST 1996
Article: 49133 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Getting a piece of paper (was: Unchanging Polynesians)
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:38:35 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56a25b$smt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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f.ledgis@msuacad.morehead-st.edu wrote:

[...]

> ¿Quien sabe? What I would like to know, and what you have consistently
>refused to answer is how you can make judgments about dissertations
>you have not read? Would you care to explain, in detail, what you find
>unacceptable about Laura Finsten's work, and about mine? (On the basis
>of reasoned analysis -- si eres capaz -- of that work.)
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pero Fragano, esto es lo esencial del caso, ¿no?  Es claro que no es capaz.
En las últimas semanas, el gusanon ha renunciado alguna discusión, o mejor
el fingimiento de la discusión racional, y ha recurrido al insulto y indirecta.
En la opinión sincera mía, no vale la pena contestarle.
 
¿Comprendes, Twinkletoes?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:08:41 PST 1996
Article: 35656 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:43:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56a2ed$smt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com> <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <566rr3$im2@lex.zippo.com>
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Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...


>Is this the post to which you are referring?

No, this isn't it, Twinkletoes.

[...]

>I would recommend
>
>Pat Shipman  1994  "The Evolution of Racism". Simon and Schuster.
>Jonathon Marks  1995  "Human Biodiversity: Genes, Race and History",
>     Aldine de Gruyter, especially Chapter 4 The History of Biology
>     and the Biology of History.
>And maybe Marek Kohn 1996  "The Race Gallery: The Return of Racial
>     Science". Vintage Books.  (I've just begun to read this.)


>While I cannot vouch for either Shipman or Kohn I do know that Marks, in
>the aforementioned book, is totally opposed to racialism.
>
>If this is the post to which you refer then what you stated above is 
>rubbish.

It isn't.  This was a response to a question from Jamie McCarthy.
If you'd followed the thread back you would have seen that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:08:42 PST 1996
Article: 35661 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!InternetMCI.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:19:36 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56cvv8$kau@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <563rvd$6t5@orion.cybercom.net> <328758CD.2B96@conterra.com> <56a4rs$26m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32892F25.5FB0@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 
[...]

>   I don't even know anybody in the Nationqal Alliance, but your
>McCarthyite tactics amount to the same old Nazi Who Wants To Kill Six
>Million Jews.
>    Pretty sick, Finsten.

It was a simple question, Mr. Whit.  While you might not want to
kill six million Jews, I have little doubt that most NA types would
like to kill a good many more than that.
I was curious about the coincidence, nothing more.  I guess you
think knee-jerk librul Mommy Professors shouldn't exercise something
like curiosity.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:08:43 PST 1996
Article: 35684 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:25:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56d0an$kau@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32891475.A97@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:

[...]

>    I never accused you of "bragging" about your PhD.

Well Mr. Whit, since I've never put those letters behind my name, or a Dr.
in front of it in 10 months of posting here, why would I start now?
I have never referred to my degrees here, period.  You have always said
that degrees themselves are irrelevant.  I agree with you on that point,
and I think the fact that I haven't made an issue of them indicates that.
You are the one who is now making an issue of my doctorate.  Why are you
doing that, Mr. Whitaker?
  
>    I never trotted out my degrees.  As you well know, I made fun of a
>guy who had PhD after his name, and your crowd got terribly upset at the
>very concept i would have such a thing.

What I recall is that someone flamed you for your lousy writing while you
were ridiculing another poster for that.  Your response made it very clear
that you have a PhD, too.  I don't recall anybody being upset about that.
I do remember you becoming very upset when I called you "Dr. Whitaker" in
the next post addressed to you, though.

>     I've made the latter point every time you people have said this,
>but of course I'll have to repeat it for each of you.

All kinds of wingnuts have PhDs, Mr. Whitaker.  You're living proof of
that.

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:08:44 PST 1996
Article: 35719 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 13:48:47 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <56f7vv$q4r@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    You got it backwards, of course.  You live in a world where PhD's
>are the priests to the superstitious PC peasants, so you're trying to be
>modest about it.

*Trying* to be modest about it?  Out of one corner of your mouth you accuse
me of intentionally hiding something, while from the other slithers this
nonsensical accusation.  If I wished to dupe the "superstitious PC peasants"
with my credentials as a high priestess of knowledge and wisdom, I would
hardly have chosen *not* to flout them, would I, Mr. Whit.  Whatever 
happened to your brain, Bob?  You can't think logically any more.

>     I guess this is the first time you've ever dealt with somebody who
>is truly not only not impressed, but quite the opposite.  

The only people I know who are impressed are my parents and siblings.

>I was offended
>that you get paid full time to push this Politically Coorect crap and
>didn't admit it up front.

You are a hypocrite of the first order.  Had I attached PhD to my surname,
you would have ragged on about that and nothing else.  That is what you
have done to those people who have been "up front" in these newsgroups.

I have not *hidden* the fact that I am an anthropologist.  In fact I
mentioned it during the first month I posted here, and for months after
was the object of snide comments about my "appeal to authority".  Had
anyone asked me about my academic degrees, I would have told them.  No
one did.  A number of people here who know me personally, or have 
communicated with me privately, knew.  Others have figured it out by
following the newsgroup.  That you didn't merely shows how unperceptive
you are.  Sounds to me like you're just pissed because we got a good
laugh over your "Mommy Professor" rant, thanks to Bill Anderson's
delightful sense of humour.

One last thing, Bob - you know *nothing*, in fact, about what I am paid
full-time to do.  You know *nothing* about the topical areas in which
I teach and do research.  If you want to make accusations about "pushing
PC crap for a living", I suggest you do a little homework first.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:11:39 PST 1996
Article: 49215 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:43:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56a2ed$smt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com> <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <566rr3$im2@lex.zippo.com>
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Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...


>Is this the post to which you are referring?

No, this isn't it, Twinkletoes.

[...]

>I would recommend
>
>Pat Shipman  1994  "The Evolution of Racism". Simon and Schuster.
>Jonathon Marks  1995  "Human Biodiversity: Genes, Race and History",
>     Aldine de Gruyter, especially Chapter 4 The History of Biology
>     and the Biology of History.
>And maybe Marek Kohn 1996  "The Race Gallery: The Return of Racial
>     Science". Vintage Books.  (I've just begun to read this.)


>While I cannot vouch for either Shipman or Kohn I do know that Marks, in
>the aforementioned book, is totally opposed to racialism.
>
>If this is the post to which you refer then what you stated above is 
>rubbish.

It isn't.  This was a response to a question from Jamie McCarthy.
If you'd followed the thread back you would have seen that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:11:40 PST 1996
Article: 49220 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!InternetMCI.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:19:36 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56cvv8$kau@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <563rvd$6t5@orion.cybercom.net> <328758CD.2B96@conterra.com> <56a4rs$26m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32892F25.5FB0@conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:49220 alt.politics.nationalism.white:35661

Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 
[...]

>   I don't even know anybody in the Nationqal Alliance, but your
>McCarthyite tactics amount to the same old Nazi Who Wants To Kill Six
>Million Jews.
>    Pretty sick, Finsten.

It was a simple question, Mr. Whit.  While you might not want to
kill six million Jews, I have little doubt that most NA types would
like to kill a good many more than that.
I was curious about the coincidence, nothing more.  I guess you
think knee-jerk librul Mommy Professors shouldn't exercise something
like curiosity.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:11:41 PST 1996
Article: 49242 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:25:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56d0an$kau@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32891475.A97@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:

[...]

>    I never accused you of "bragging" about your PhD.

Well Mr. Whit, since I've never put those letters behind my name, or a Dr.
in front of it in 10 months of posting here, why would I start now?
I have never referred to my degrees here, period.  You have always said
that degrees themselves are irrelevant.  I agree with you on that point,
and I think the fact that I haven't made an issue of them indicates that.
You are the one who is now making an issue of my doctorate.  Why are you
doing that, Mr. Whitaker?
  
>    I never trotted out my degrees.  As you well know, I made fun of a
>guy who had PhD after his name, and your crowd got terribly upset at the
>very concept i would have such a thing.

What I recall is that someone flamed you for your lousy writing while you
were ridiculing another poster for that.  Your response made it very clear
that you have a PhD, too.  I don't recall anybody being upset about that.
I do remember you becoming very upset when I called you "Dr. Whitaker" in
the next post addressed to you, though.

>     I've made the latter point every time you people have said this,
>but of course I'll have to repeat it for each of you.

All kinds of wingnuts have PhDs, Mr. Whitaker.  You're living proof of
that.

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 08:11:42 PST 1996
Article: 49271 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 13:48:47 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    You got it backwards, of course.  You live in a world where PhD's
>are the priests to the superstitious PC peasants, so you're trying to be
>modest about it.

*Trying* to be modest about it?  Out of one corner of your mouth you accuse
me of intentionally hiding something, while from the other slithers this
nonsensical accusation.  If I wished to dupe the "superstitious PC peasants"
with my credentials as a high priestess of knowledge and wisdom, I would
hardly have chosen *not* to flout them, would I, Mr. Whit.  Whatever 
happened to your brain, Bob?  You can't think logically any more.

>     I guess this is the first time you've ever dealt with somebody who
>is truly not only not impressed, but quite the opposite.  

The only people I know who are impressed are my parents and siblings.

>I was offended
>that you get paid full time to push this Politically Coorect crap and
>didn't admit it up front.

You are a hypocrite of the first order.  Had I attached PhD to my surname,
you would have ragged on about that and nothing else.  That is what you
have done to those people who have been "up front" in these newsgroups.

I have not *hidden* the fact that I am an anthropologist.  In fact I
mentioned it during the first month I posted here, and for months after
was the object of snide comments about my "appeal to authority".  Had
anyone asked me about my academic degrees, I would have told them.  No
one did.  A number of people here who know me personally, or have 
communicated with me privately, knew.  Others have figured it out by
following the newsgroup.  That you didn't merely shows how unperceptive
you are.  Sounds to me like you're just pissed because we got a good
laugh over your "Mommy Professor" rant, thanks to Bill Anderson's
delightful sense of humour.

One last thing, Bob - you know *nothing*, in fact, about what I am paid
full-time to do.  You know *nothing* about the topical areas in which
I teach and do research.  If you want to make accusations about "pushing
PC crap for a living", I suggest you do a little homework first.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:43 PST 1996
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Geez, Brian, I'll bet you don't like kissing, either, because it
is a "perversion" of what the organs were originally intended for.
Poor you.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:44 PST 1996
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>What did the Nazis do?  If you are judging the Germans by the Lies of
>the Holofraud -- well, no wonder your view of them is skewed.

I'm rather interested in why *your* view of the Holocaust is so skewed,
Brian.  There is a mountain a *physical evidence* in addition to the
eye-witness testimony not only of Jewish and other survivors, but of
many Germans who were involved in the operations of the extermination
camps.  If you really want to go through this evidence piece by piece,
I'll do what I can, although I don't know nearly as much about the
subject as some of the folks on alt.revisionism, like Mike Stein and
Mark Van Alstine.  Maybe they'll come over and talk to you about the
architectural blueprints from Auschwitz-Birkenau, discovered by
Pressac, that show that there was never any plumbing planned for the
gas chambers, even though there were showerheads ordered and installed.
Just as one teensy example of physical evidence.

Where are you getting your history lessons from, Brian?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:45 PST 1996
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 16:03:03 GMT
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Pedro G Gelabert  wrote:

[...]

>People who are unhappy where they live move some place else. Go somewhere 
>where no blacks or mexicans or italians would go...like Anarctica, or 
>Arctica, or Greenland, or the Northwest Territories/Yukon in Canada.


Uh Haile/Pedro, please don't try to fob these folks off on Canada.
NWT and the Yukon have lots of native peoples, and I don't think
they really want to see a bunch of white supremacists barrelling 
on in.  I have previously suggested Antarctica, although I admit
to some concern that those miscegenated penguins might drive them
all into the frozen waters.  But maybe a splash of cold water 
would wake 'em up.

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:46 PST 1996
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Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 20:34:02 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>Seems like you might suffer that yourself, Mr./Ms. Cutup.  They clearly
>>"blame everything on the JOOOOOOOOS".

>As much as you categorically deny it, you still have not yet refuted
>that Jews wield tremendous control and disproportionate influence over
>the media -- an organ that is continually pushing race-mixing
>propaganda and "diversity" at every turn.  

This is one of the weirdest arguments I have ever heard.  See if you
can follow my train of thought on this, Brian.  You know what determines
what shows survive on television, which movies remain in the theatres
for more than a couple of days?  The numbers of people who watch them.
For TV, advertisers yank a programme that gets lousy viewer numbers
and they yank them damn fast because they pay an arm and leg for
advertising.  Same thing with movies.  If people don't come out to
watch a movie, it fades from the theatres real fast.

So one observation I would make on this subject is that, with respect
to "fluff" programming on television and movies, it doesn't matter
who is making the stuff.  What determines what stays there and is widely
available for viewing is how many people tune in.  Sounds like people
might be tuning in to stuff you don't approve of.  I'd suggest you think
about selling your tv, Bri, and quit worrying about what the couch
potatoes are doing.

At the same time, though, I would say that your allegation that the
media are "continually pushing race-mixing propaganda" is utterly
false.  Sitcoms are largely segregated, and I think that's a shame.
Movies and TV avoid interracial romance like it were the plague (I
thought you'd approve of this, Bri, but I guess the idea of two
people whose skins are very different in colour on the same screen
is offensive to you).  Who is it who wrote the "Pelican Brief"? 
You familiar with that story, Bri?  Probably didn't go to the movie,
eh, because Denzel Washington was in it.  Well, in the book, the 
character played by Washington (a PI), was "white".  In the book,
he and the female lead (played in the movie by Julia Roberts) become
romantically involved.  But in the movie, the romance stuff was cut.
The producers missed out on a golden opportunity, just by following
the book the movie was based on, to "push[] race-mixing".  There
are plenty more examples where that one came from

Newspapers?  Is your concern here with ownership or editorial control?
Network news?  Is Ted Turner Jewish?  Does he, or any other network
owner exercise control, directly and daily, over the specific content
of news broadcasts?

Prove to me that the owners of any newspaper exercise direct editorial
control over its content.  Then do the same thing for network television
news.  Then maybe we'll have something to talk about.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:47 PST 1996
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pgissource@aol.com wrote:

>In article <847645384$2593@atype.com>, Laura Finsten
> writes:

>>I'll be that Rajiv's *individual* achievements far surpass yours,
>>Brian.  What does that make *you*?  A loser whose only perceived
>>hope is attached to the colour of his skin.
>
>Calmate, Laura. 

Estoy bien tranquila.  I get this same shit all the time, because
these bozos are so dense they think anybody whose last name has
the letters e, i and n in it must be Jewish.  They have four
tidy little packages into which they divide all people:  themselves,
"muds", Jooooooos, and race traitors.  Simple-minded idjits.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:48 PST 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 15:33:03 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>>A couple of problems here.  Nobody can be prosecuted for what they
>>"think", only for what they do with what they think.  Unless you
>>actually believe that it is possible to read minds, quite literally.

>Sure.  As long as you keep your mouth shut, and don't dare 'express'
>an opinion, things will go just fine for you!   Some freedom indeed!

That does sound rather draconian, doesn't it.  Sort of like the kind of
"freedom" espoused in The Turner Diaries.

This is a real muddy area of law and ethics, and I'm fairly certain
that you aren't interested in really engaging in a discussion of it,
but I'll pretend you might be.

I'm sure that you'll agree that "freedom of speech" does not mean 
that there are *no* limits whatsoever on what is acceptable speech.
Or do you think that it should be OK to stand up in the middle of
a crowded movie theatre and yell "Fire!" when there isn't one, to
incite people to riot, and to verbally threaten peoples' lives?
I guess we need to clear that up before there is much point in 
proceeding with this discussion.

>>Germany does indeed have laws against Holocaust denial, and I note
>>that many people, including Jews, have spoken out against those laws.
>>But how many other European countries have such laws, Brian?  The
>>Labour Party in the UK has said that it would pass such a law if it
>>wins the next election, but there is no law against Holocaust denial
>>at present.  What about Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France?
>>Faurisson hasn't been charged or imprisoned, to my knowledge.

>France just prosecuted someone for carrying a revisionist book.

Can you give me the details of the case? Seriously, I'm genuinely
interested.  Faurisson has been denying the Holocaust for decades
and never been prosecuted for it (or is the one who has?).

>England is next and already has "hate crime laws" which have sent
>several to jail for "saying the wrong thing"!  

So you are predicting that Labour will win the next election?

>Revisionism is also suppressed by Jewish intimidation and boycott.

Boycott?  Intimidation?  "Revisionism" is "suppressed" by its fallacy,
Brian.  Holocaust denial hasn't got a leg to stand on, and is clearly
part of an ultra-right wing agenda to cleanse fascism.

What I find interesting is that organisations like CODOH which *claim*
to want "open debate" on whether there was a Holocaust refuse to
link to the one web-site that actually engages in *debate* - Nizkor.
While Nizkor does in fact link to all the denial sites, in multiple
places.  And the IHR similarly avoids the "opposing position" like
the plague, although dearest Ernst "UFOS R US" Zundel has grudgingly
including one link to Nizkor.  If there is a sincere wish for *debate*,
why do these websites appear to try to hide the "opposition's" 
debunking of their arguments?
 
>The knee-jerk reaction is always "so what:  that's legal!"  The point
>is Jews use there power to ban and suppress the truth about the
>Holocaust Hoax in demonstrations of open bigotry.  Jews are also in
>the fore of passing Orwellian "hate crime" laws.

I don't get your comment about the knee-jerk reaction.  You don't seem
to recognise that Jews are not the only people repelled by the tactics
of organisations like Zundel's, Raven's, and Bradley Smith's, Brian.

Jews have not "foisted" anything on a naive and gullible public.  The
vast weight of historical evidence - physical evidence, eye-witness
testimony both - argue against you, quite clearly.  You want to talk
in detail about the evidence, Bri?  You still reading up about the
"Order Police"?  Want to talk gas chambers?  I might be able to persuade
Mike Stein to share his detailed knowledge on this subject with you.   

>>How many countries actually *have* these "hate laws", Brian?  Canada
>>does, I know, but they have rarely been used, and there has only been
>>one conviction under them that I am aware of.  School teacher lying
>>to his history students, and he certainly was not sent to prison.

>The fact that the Jews have succeeded in pushing through thoughtcrime
>laws at all in itself speaks volumes.

Well to the extent that this is true, the volumes it speaks to me sound
kinda like this:  the majority of people in the countries in which such
laws exist are repelled and revolted by increasingly blatant racism.

But you didn't answer my question, Bri.  How many countries actually
*have* these "hate laws"?  If it were up to me, I'd just charge the
twinkies distributing their racist tracts to school kiddies with 
trespass and littering.    

>>It strikes me that you are exaggerating the extent of laws against
>>Holocaust denial and of hatred in speech.  And it also occurs to me
>>that you are overplaying the role of Jewish organisations in these
>>areas.  And ignoring the fact that many Jews and other *non-racists* 
>>and people who do not deny the historicity of the Holocaust have 
>>spoken out against such laws, and in many cases taken quite vocal
>>stances against them. 

>Oh crap.  Jewish are the guiding force behind these Orwellian laws.
>And the Jewish ADL has been pushing "hate crime" laws for years.

Yeah, and lots of individuals have been adamantly opposed to such
laws and limitations on freedom of speech.  You keep carping about
how Nizkor is a "Jewish organisation", yet conveniently ignore its
pro-freedom of speech stance, don't you.  

>I don't see the Jews organizing to oppose them.  Jews get organized
>quite often whenever they want to oppose something.  Jews organized a
>long list of Jewish organizations to protest for the release of
>Jonathon Pollard -- a Jewish spy for Israel.  Yet Jews don't protest
>to oppose these thoughtcrime laws.  There is no serious Jewish
>opposition to them.

Are you Star Trek fan, Brian?  It sounds like you think that everybody
has to voice their opinions through a religious and/or ethnic group.
You have a very borg-like view of the world.  That might work for you,
since it lets you "function" without actually having to have more than
two neurons yourself, but the rest of the world doesn't work that way.

Does every Jew who speaks out against undue limitations to freedom
of speech have to make sure that everyone knows they're Jewish?  Is
no one allowed to voice their opinions as an individual, or do you
apply this need for "group" voice and opinion to Jews only?  I
guess you'd only be satisfied if there were something like "Jews
for hate speech" as a formal organisation lobbying the government.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 14:18:38 GMT
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mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney) wrote:

>In message <847689497$5058@atype.com> - Laura Finsten  writes:

[...]
>
My wife has a nearly 100% record 
>of detecting Jewishness. And that's not based upon blood tests but upon 
>physiogomy, attitude, lifestyle, etc. If you required her to 
>systematize her procedure I doubt if it could be thoroughly done; its more 
>intuitive than anything. However, the fact remains that in over twenty years 
>my wife is almost perfect when it comes to detecting a Jew.  

Sort of like a well-trained dog that can sniff out drugs, or one of those
pigs that finds truffles?  So you think that your wife's sniffing ability
should supercede any objective assessment of a person's identity?  That 
will certainly make people confident, won't it.

>:>>Also, a 1/16th rule can be adopted as well.  

>:>And how are you going to verify this, Brian?  Are you going to require
>:>that everyone show up with their family records and blood samples going
>:>back 5 generations to search out the mysterious tell-all gene?

>You'd only have to go back to great-grand parents. that's not very difficult.

No Ian, if you take your shoes and socks off, you might be able to figure
out that one Jewish great grandparent would make a person 1/8 Jewish in descent.
The easy way to figure it out is this - 4 grandparents, each of whom had two
parents.  So that's 4x2 as the denominator in the fraction.  That's 8.  You
have to go back one more generation, to great-great grandparents, to get 1/16.
Hope you guys can figure this all out before you set your wife to sniffing
for Jews.  How does she detect fractional descent, anyway?  Only some of her
epithelial hair raise, instead of all of it?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:50 PST 1996
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:


[...]

>Interesting.  After France and England declared war on them and the
>U.S.S.R was also moving towards Europe.  Occupying outposts of land
>for military purposes is a common military tactic -- used often by the
>U.S. by the way.  

That's cute.  All of Europe and North Africa were "outposts".

>So the U.S. STARVED millions of Germans to death and handed over
>millions of anti-communist Europeans to the Soviet Union for sure
>torture and death.  The U.S. also bombed German civilian cities with
>no strategic value whatsoever, just to deliberately incinerate as many
>unarmed civilians, women and children as possible.  

By denier standards of evidence, if you can call them that, it is
impossible to prove that Dresden was fire-bombed.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:51 PST 1996
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>Why don't you go ahead and prove me wrong instead of simply telling me
>these Talmud "are taken out of context."  The Jewish professor Shakak
>discusses the vulgarities and perversions of the Talmud in depth in
>his recent book on Jewish history.

Well you know, Bri, my library doesn't have a book by anyone named 
Shakak, and by time I could get it from interlibrary loan, you'll be
gone.  I searched under "Talmud" and 252 titles came up.  It doesn't
look like we have the Socino (or was in Soncino) edition, either, so
I couldnt' do a quick page check, either.  And hell, Bri, its 14 
volumes.  Or is it 17?  I guess you know, since you hopped right to
it, pulled 'em off the shelf, read them all and extracted those
quotations.

I'm afraid I just don't have the time to do that right now.  You
ever done the same thing with the New Testament?     

[...]

>Sorry to disappoint your theory that Jews can do no wrong, Mrs.

Uh Bri, I think you misunderstand me.  I am well aware that individuals
of any national, cultural, or religious background can do tremendous
wrongs.  Unlike you, though, I see "wrongs" as individual actions,
rather than borg-like responses.  Maybe that tells us more about
your responses than it does about Jews or anyone else.


[...]

>>>------end text-------

>>Oh, I see, you clipped this from somewhere and pasted it in.  I guess
>>I'm not so impressed by your research skills after all.

>"End text" were MY words.  But under your definition cutting and
>pasting is a discredited form of posting?

Only if you didn't research it and write it yourself, but pretend that
you did.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:36:52 PST 1996
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>Well, it seems the only people enforcing thought-crimes are Jews.  

Gee, Bri, I thought that the laws are enforced by institutions of
the state, like the police and crown or whatever who determines
whether there should be a prosecution.

>As
>far the the _Turner Diaries_ go, that novel represents the last resort
>the White man will be forced to if the genocide of the White race
>continues and he is repressed to the point that there is no other
>alternative for his survival.  

So it isn't pure fiction afterall, but a vision of the future.
Thanks for clarifying that.

>I do not want that to happen.  I would
>like the White man's right to self-determination to be permitted and
>the races go their separate ways.  Those who want diversity can have
>their diversity.  

And you want your self-determination at the expense of the same rights
by all others who would be on or have interests in the territory in
which you would establish your little all-White dream home.

[...]

>It is on www.codoh.com under the "Thoughtcrimes" link (I think).  It
>discusses the case in full.

Thanks, I'll look it up, although Bradley Smith's commentary must
be taken with a ton of salt.

[...]

>>>Revisionism is also suppressed by Jewish intimidation and boycott.

>>Boycott?  Intimidation?  "Revisionism" is "suppressed" by its fallacy,
>>Brian.  Holocaust denial hasn't got a leg to stand on, and is clearly
>>part of an ultra-right wing agenda to cleanse fascism.

>How wrong you are.  There are huge evidentiary problems with the
>Holocaust theory, as anyone reading the revisionist positions can
>clearly see.   Actually, the Holocaust theory, along with its
>Orwellian suppression of dissent, clearly furthers the Jewish agenda.
>But that's OK with you, right?

I've asked you in another thread about what primary evidence you
have studied exhaustively, and how you came to the conclusion that
this is the biggest, most successful ruse in history.  You haven't
given a single, concrete reason for dismissing the historicity of
the Holocaust, Brian, you just keep repeating the same old denier
spam.

>And what "truth" needs to be protected by criminal laws?  What
>"historical event" is not permitted to be questioned?  Something
>indeed is fishy with the Tale.  

You know, I actually agree with you that laws against Holocaust denial
are a mistake.  I agree with you because I think that it provides a
perfect opportunity for wingnuts like Zundel, Raven and Smith to 
make themselves out to be martyrs, something which is very appealing
to gullible people like you.

>>What I find interesting is that organisations like CODOH which *claim*
>>to want "open debate" on whether there was a Holocaust refuse to
>>link to the one web-site that actually engages in *debate* - Nizkor.
>>While Nizkor does in fact link to all the denial sites, in multiple
>>places.  And the IHR similarly avoids the "opposing position" like
>>the plague, although dearest Ernst "UFOS R US" Zundel has grudgingly
>>including one link to Nizkor.  If there is a sincere wish for *debate*,
>>why do these websites appear to try to hide the "opposition's" 
>>debunking of their arguments?

>Every revisionist site either links or mentions the Nizkor site
>several times, including CODOH.  The revisionists want to openly
>discuss the Holocaust, but they are prevented from doing so publicly:
>it is an obvious act of cowardice on the part of the Holocausters.

Actually, I recall hearing someone (although I can't remember who)
say recently that they would debate Butz or Smith or some denier nut
as long as they also debated whether the earth is flat, whether the
Apollo moon landings ever occurred, and something else of comparable
lunacy.  Folks like Deborah Lipstadt argue, rightfully in my opinion,
that that kind of debate would give denial a credibility that it 
does not merit.  It is not an "alternative theory", it is denial,
plain and simple, whose primary goal is cleansing Hitler and the 
Nazi regime.  Given this, I am not surprised that Germany has laws
against it, although I don't agree with such laws. 

>The public is thus prevented from being told about the huge holes in
>the Holocaust.  It is shameful, a deliberate cover-up.  Revisionism is
>growing that much more underground as a direct result.  

Not true.  The literature and websites are available pretty much world-wide.

[...]

>Zundel gives a link to Nizkor.  

Yup.  And he does it in a dishonest way.  Instead of linking to the
Nikzor QAR, for example, next to his own site's 66 (or however many
haven't yet been pulled) questions and answers, he has some snide
little remark in a corner somewhere that says something like "for
relentless Holocaust promotion see Nizkor".

>But not linking Nizkor is hardly
>evidence of  "unwillingness to debate" Holocausters.  All the
>revisionists sites consist of presenting the other side's claims
>directly, and in the other side's own words, and then debunking these
>claims.  

It isn't the be all and end all, but it is indicative that what Zundel,
Raven and Smith want is not real debate but an unfettered, high profile
platform for disseminating their lies.  One might also ask why Zundel
refuses to engage in debate on a.r., and why Raven has virtually 
disappeared from that forum.  It is, after all, what that newsgroup
was set up for.

>The revisionists would leap at ANY chance to debate Holocausters in
>public -- but the Holocauster cowards will have none of it.  The
>latter are actually smart for doing so.  If they permitted the public
>to hear revisionism the Holocaust would likely crumble much faster
>than it is today.

Sure, Brian, I realise that you need to believe this.  Otherwise you
might have to accept that you've been duped by a bunch of liars.   

>>You want to talk
>>in detail about the evidence, Bri?  You still reading up about the
>>"Order Police"?  Want to talk gas chambers?  I might be able to persuade
>>Mike Stein to share his detailed knowledge on this subject with you.   

>It seems you cannot do so yourself even though you evidently are so
>certain the extermination by gassing occurred.   I don't blame you not
>knowing the theory:  the issues are vast and they do get complex.

I would wager that I know the evidence a helluva lot better than you
do.  And I'm willing to engage in a discussion of it if you'd like to
accept my wager.

>However, I do blame for slavishly accepting as truth a theory you have
>not investigated for yourself.

I've asked you several times to tell me about your own investigations,
Brian.  

>Yes, still reading up on the "Order Police."  Police Battalion 101 I
>believe it is.  I have little fear of the claims.   The claims of the
>Holocaust are invariably grandiose and exaggerative.   It seems to be
>the nature of the animal!

Seems that you've arrived at a conclusion before you've even read it!
Maybe you can tell me how you got to that conclusion, Bri.  Doesn't 
seem to be any need for you to finish the book.  You already know how
the story ends, after all.  

[...]

>The people have nothing to do with it.  The current German regime is
>simply the same puppet regime installed by the Allies after WWII.  The
>people never "voted" on these Orwellian laws.

But they elected the government(s) which have passed and upheld those
laws.  

[...]

>Jews have had no appreciable impact on the ongoing trend by other Jews
>to successfully criminalize speech with Orwellian laws.  Jews
>certainly haven't applied Jewish power half as much against these
>measures, and they have in FAVOR of these measures.  The Jewish
>opposition to other Jewish supression has been lukewarm at best.  

Men have had no appreciable impact on the ongoing increase in violence
against women by men.  Therefore men are all guilty of violence against
women.  The male opposition has been lukewarm at best, which suggests
that all men are in favour of such violence.  Get the analogy?

[...]

>That is what I am doing:  looking out for the White interest.   At the
>same time, I am aware of the occurrence of the individual differences,
>and deal with people on an individual level, while being aware of
>general racial truths as well.

Who put a bunch of fascists in charge of the "White interest", Brian?

>If Jews are in
>favor of free speech it is up to take effective action to halt their
>fellow Jews.   So far they have not.  

Gee Bri, democracy doesn't work that way.  I agree with you on the free
speech.  Even though I am subject to a lot of antisemitic hate, I agree
with you that "hate speech" is a concept too ill-defined to be legislated
against without seriously infringing on freedom of speech.  But unlike
you, I don't see these laws foisted on an unwilling public by Jews.  I
perhaps have some better familiarity with the subject than you, since I
live in a country that has such laws (and has seen only one successful
prosecution, too - James Keegstra, who was peddling Holocaust denial to
14 years instead of high school history).  A lot of the people who 
support the laws are WWII veterans, Brian, people who fought the Nazis,
and who lost friends and family in that war.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>What about the accounts of electrocution and steaming?  They have long
>been proven false.  

Yes, and they were accepted as uncredible at the Nuremberg trials.  No
one was convicted for electrocuting or steaming anybody.  What 
proportion of the eyewitness testimonies refer to electrocution and
steaming, Brian?

>Why do aerial photos demonstrate there are were no
>vents over the gas chambers?   

They don't, if you are referring to the induction vents on the roofs
of the Kremas built later on.

>Why was Anne Frank shipped all Europe
>if she was sickly and we are told they automatically exterminated the
>young and the old?  

Funny thing, that.  People who were sickly tried desperately to hide
it to avoid being killed.  She didn't fall mortally ill until after
she had been evacuated from Auschwitz.

>Why was Anne Frank's father found recuperating in
>a German hospital at the end of the war if the intent was
>extermination?  

I can't answer that one.

>Why do the documents show that thousands of old and
>sick were not "exterminated"?  

Which documents are those?  And what makes you think that the 
population of Europe's "old and sick" Jews numbered only in the
thousands, Brian?

>Why do the samples of HCN from the
>so-called "gas chambers" only support the thesis the gas chambers were
>used as to delouse?  

They don't.  The levels of HCN from the gas chambers are far lower
than those in the delousing chambers because it takes a much higher
concentration of HCN to kill lice than humans, and because the
gas chambers were ventilated quickly after the HCN was induced.

>Why was there a new gas chamber built underground
>at great expense and for no apparent reason?  

For no apparent reason?  You are a fool, Brian.  The reason is
very apparent.  The Nazis were preparing to deal with the Jews
of southeastern Europe, Bri.  They were getting ready for the
massive importation of people from Hungary and Greece.

>Why were these built at
>all if supposedly all that was needed was a barn?  (answer:  they
>weren't gas chambers).  

What feature are you talking about, Brian?  What date?  How the
hell am I am supposed to answer a question like this?

>Why were Jews shipped hundreds of miles at
>needless expense when they could have been shot on site instantly?

Whoever said the Nazis were rational, Brian?  But I'll turn this
question back on you.  Why were hundreds of thousands, if not 
millions, of Jewish children and elderly people transported hundreds
of miles into Poland if the purpose was labour and only labour?
Why would the Nazis take on the expense of the transportation,
housing and feeding of all those "useless mouths" when it would be
far more "logical" to leave the geezers and the kids behind to fend
for themselves?  

>>I do know from following his arguments, though, that Mike Stein knows
>>the evidence, physical and documentary, concerning the gas chambers
>>at Auschwitz-Birkenau incredibly well.

>So do revisionists.  What does that prove?

Well, I've only been reading alt.revisionism for about 10 months,
but I have yet to see one who has bettered him in an argument.
  
>>Well, like I said, I've seen reproductions of the architectural plans,
>>of aerial photographs and the like.  I've seen photographs of documents
>>from various archives discussing the purchase of shower heads, gas-tight
>>doors, multiple-muffle crematoria, and so on.  I've read first hand
>>accounts.

>Gas tight doors were used for bomb shelters, which the so-called "gas
>chamber" cellars were designed as.  

Why did the bomb shelters have shower heads but no plumbing, Brian?
Why were the bomb shelters in the same complexes as the crematoria?
Why were so many crematoria needed in a "work camp"?

>That is why the exhaust vents are
>located at the bottom and not the top.  For a gas chamber, they are
>reversed.  

Not if the HCN is introduced from the top and then filters downward.

>LK I had an air intake system.  

>>Sure Bri.  Tell me about the primary evidence that you have studied
>>in detail that leads you through intellectually honest processes to
>>dismiss the Holocaust as a hoax.

>The Revisionists use primary sources.   It is the primary sources,
>such as "eyewitness testimony" that is so damning to the Holocaust
>theory.

Sure Brian.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Hitler had pale blue eyes.  You evidently know as little about
>Hitler's appearance as you do about him.  

>As far as Les Griswold goes, I'm sure his name's listed in the
>phonebook somewhere.  Maybe you could satisfy your obvious obsession
>with him through those means.

Oh I'm not obsessed with Les Griswold.  But he was my first encounter
with the National Appliance and so his idiotic rantings kind of
created the stereotype for me.  You know about stereotypes, Bri,
those real accurate descriptive models.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>I'm rather interested in why *your* view of the Holocaust is so skewed.  
>>There is a mountain a *physical evidence* 

>The mountain is an fact a molehill in the eyes of a mole.

Umm, no, the mountain is a molehill in the eyes of a denier.  

>>in addition to the eye-witness testimony not only of Jewish and other
>>survivors but many Germans who were involved in the operations of the 
>>extermination camps.  

>And more than enough of such "testimony" has been exposed here as
>reporting the impossible, not describing the currently claimed places
>and events and shown to be mutually contradictory.  So why would you
>bring them up?  They are truly ridiculous.

You're going to have to be more specific about which testimonies you
find problematic and why, Brian.  Moreover, you are going to have to
be very specific about why you reject *all* eyewitness testimony,
despite the overall convergence, because of some inconsistencies.  
Otherwise people might think you're just reciting some generic
Holocaust denial mantra you read somewhere.

>>If you really want to go through this evidence piece by piece,
>>I'll do what I can, 

>You will be the first.  

Hardly.

>>although I don't know nearly as much about the
>>subject as some of the folks on alt.revisionism, like Mike Stein and
>>Mark Van Alstine.  

>Your problem is that you are not as good at lying as they are, that

Are you calling me a liar, Brian?  If so, can you be specific about
what you claim I have lied about?

>is all.  If they are such experts, where are their publications?  They
>repeat only what they read from others.  They are not experts on the
>subject.   Rather they are "expert" upon what others have said about
>the subject.

Neither Mike Stein nor Mark Van Alstine has claimed to be experts who
have published on the Holocaust.  Nor have any of the other folks who
argue with the deniers on alt.revisionism.  Is Ernst Zundel a credibly
published historian, Brian?  Or Bradley Smith?  What are their credentials
as historians?  Or those of Greg Raven?  

I do know from following his arguments, though, that Mike Stein knows
the evidence, physical and documentary, concerning the gas chambers
at Auschwitz-Birkenau incredibly well.

>They are not original.  They are not expert.  They are no more than
>regurgitators.

And you are a denier parrot, it seems, since you haven't even read the
historical research they draw on.  

>It is not clear why you would aspire to being a regurgitator of the
>publications of others.

I don't.  It isn't clear why would aspire to (and apparently have
achieved) the exalted status of a denier parrot.  

>>Maybe they'll come over and talk to you about the
>>architectural blueprints from Auschwitz-Birkenau, discovered by
>>Pressac, 

>Bingo!  They discuss Pressac, the work of others, rather than the
>blueprints themselves.  And all the while pretending they have
>firsthand knowledge.

Bzzzzzt.  Thank you for playing, but no cigar.  Have you studied
Pressac's book, Brian?  You see, I have.  And given that, I know
that most of Pressac's book is photographs and reproductions of
original architectural blueprints and other material.  It has very
little text.  I'd love to have the oppportunity (and time) to study
the originals in the archives at Auschwitz, but most of us have to
make do with published reproductions.

>>that show that there was never any plumbing planned for the
>>gas chambers, even though there were showerheads ordered and installed.
>>Just as one teensy example of physical evidence.

>That is not physical evidence.  What would be physical evidence
>would be actually finding the building that satisfies that
>description.  But after over 50 years of searching, no one has found
>that building.  It is safe to say that it does not exist.

Uh, no, Bri, architectural plans are physical evidence.
You know, of course, that the Nazis blew up the gas chambers just days
before the Soviet forces liberated the camp.  Funny that, isn't it.
Just those couple of buildings blown up.  Why would they have gone to
all the trouble of destroying delousing chambers, morgues, or showers?  

>>Where are you getting your history lessons from?  

>If you are getting your history lessons third hand as you are
>indicating then you have gotten no history lesson at all.  It is
>incumbent upon you to get as close to first hand information as
>possible and then to critically review it in comparison with
>everything else you know.

Well, like I said, I've seen reproductions of the architectural plans,
of aerial photographs and the like.  I've seen photographs of documents
>from  various archives discussing the purchase of shower heads, gas-tight
doors, multiple-muffle crematoria, and so on.  I've read first hand
accounts.

But the question was where *you* are getting *your* history lessons from.  

>It is intellectual honesty to avoid committing yourself to any
>position that you can not personally support.  It is intellectual
>honesty to state in public "'he' said it is" rather than "it is."  Try
>intellectual honesty for a change.

Sure Bri.  Tell me about the primary evidence that you have studied
in detail that leads you through intellectually honest processes to
dismiss the Holocaust as a hoax.

>You were never invited to dance.  

I certainly was, but not by the likes of you.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>So let's get back to anthropometry then.  I'd really like to hear the details
>>of your "simple appearance test", Bri.  Speaking of stereotypes, did you 
>>know that in Latin America, people with dark brown hair and blue eyes are
>>thought to be Jewish because this is such a bizarre hair colour/eye colour
>>combo to them.  They woulda thought Hitler was a Jew.  Isn't that funny!!

>Mrs. Finsten's main argument is that Whites can't identify a White
>person.   Mrs Finsten doesn't believe that we can see a man with Black
>skin and an Afro and conclude which race he is.   Or a mulatto.  Or an
>Indian.  Or an Asian.

Gee Brian, you have a short memory.  We were talking specifically about
identifying Jews.  But are you so confident that you could sniff out someone
who is 1/16 Chinese, or Indian, or African?
 
>Appearance ALONE automatically excludes the overwhelming percentage of
>non-Whites 

Well you really have not gotten around yet to telling me exactly *how*
you would use appearance to make such judgements, Brian, and that is what
I have asked you repeatedly here.

>(hardly any of which would even bother to apply for
>membership in a White state), 

You keep bringing this up, but I can't see how it is relevant.  You 
gotta remember, Bri, there will be resistance.  Lots of resistance,
should you ever succeed.

>leaving only a fraction of
>"questionables" most of which again would be discouraged from applying
>to a White state -- and ALL of whom could be denied entrance if so
>desired.  

See if you can get your head around the idea that they are already there,
because there are no major parcels of territory without people who you
would not consider acceptable if you knew their ancestry and politics,
Brian.  Can you imagine that?  OK, so now you have to tell us how you're
going to identify those you will order out and murder if they refuse to
leave.  See, if you're gonna have a racially based state, Bri, you've
got to have objective criteria for determining potential membership.
I've yet to see anyone of you white power rangers come up with such 
a set of criteria.

>Those appointed for the job of evaluating a person for
>entrance will always err on the side of exclusion, of course, for the
>interest of preserving White genes. 

And what criteria will they employ in making their judgements, Brian?
Specific criteria, please.

[...]

>Thus the goal of Whites in their own racial state is quite feasible,
>despite Mrs. Finsten's broken record "it's too difficult to identify a
>White!" 

Well hell, Brian, if it's so easy, why won't you tell us how you do it?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:
 
>>sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
 
>>>As>>far the the _Turner Diaries_ go

[...]

>>So it isn't pure fiction afterall, but a vision of the future.
>>Thanks for clarifying that.
 
>It is a rough vision of the future -if- Whites are denied
>self-determination and survival as a race.

Like I said, Brian, it is a vision of the future.  And thanks
once more for clarifying that.

[...]

>I'm all for negotiating a plan.  I'd like Whites and Blacks and other
>races to work together to divide the land by negotiation.  

You're insane if you actually believe that this can be done peacably.

>However, Israel "cleansed" the land and forced Palestinians into
>concentration camps to take the land for themselves.   If Jews are
>justified in having a homeland for Jews then so are Whites.

And look how successful that was, how peaceful the outcome has been.
Get a grip, Brian.   

[...]

>I look at facts.  The facts that trace samples from the "gas chambers"
>do not support gassing.  

And from where do you get these "facts", Bri?  The Leuchter report, 
which is not even accepted by many deniers as valid?

>The fact the ashes for all those millions
>supposedly cremated are -nowhere- to be found.  

Not true, Brian.  Coring around Auschwitz-Birkenau turned up a lot
of ash.  Where are you getting your "facts" from, Brian?  Have you
read anything about the Holocaust other than the denier pap on 
websites and in Zundel's little rags?

[...]

>This is typical Holocauster hogwash.  And criminalizing revisionism is
>not giving revisionism credibility?

I think that it actually might, if only for antisemitic wingnuts who
look under the beds every night for Jooooos who are trying to pull
a big one over on them.  I've never said that I think that Holocaust
denial should be criminalised.  I don't think that not criminalising
it means that anyone is *obligated* to provide a forum for it, though,
any more than I think that I am *obligated* to teach "creation science"
when I teach evolutionary theory, just because "creation science" is
legal.  

>The reason why they refuse to openly debate is because they do not
>want the public to know about the huge holes in the Holocaust.  The
>Holocaust might crumble quite quickly if the counter-evidence to it
>were permitted to be presented to and examined by the public.

The public has had ample opportunity to access denier "viewpoints",
Brian, through the web, through Butz' book, through the publications
of the IHR.  

[...]

>>Yup.  And he does it in a dishonest way.  Instead of linking to the
>>Nikzor QAR, for example, next to his own site's 66 (or however many
>>haven't yet been pulled) questions and answers, he has some snide
>>little remark in a corner somewhere that says something like "for
>>relentless Holocaust promotion see Nizkor".

>I find that snideness insignificant in comparison to the Holocausters'
>"snideness" of throwing people in jail who differ with their (false)
>view of history.

This is a red herring, Brian.  Zundel isn't in jail.  How many people
have actually been put in jail for Holocaust denial, Brian?  The 
inescapable and central point is that Zundel professes to want debate
but is only begrudgingly, and after much pressure I might add, making
obscure links to the opposing view - the site that blows his nonsense
out of the water.  What kind of "debate" is that?  If he doesn't fear
that his arguments can withstand scrutiny, why is that?

[...]

>Why does Zundel refuse to debate on a.r.?  I dunno.   Why do the
>Holocausters refuse to openly debate before the public?

Why should historians take charlatans seriously, Brian?  The fallacious
and misleading nature of "revisionism" is clearly apparent to those who
take the time to read both history and denial.

Geologists don't debate flat earthers, either.

>>>[...]If they permitted the public
>>>to hear revisionism the Holocaust would likely crumble much faster
>>>than it is today.

>>Sure, Brian, I realise that you need to believe this.  Otherwise you
>>might have to accept that you've been duped by a bunch of liars.   

>Prove it wrong then.

Nobody can "prove" your prediction of an as yet unrealised future wrong,
Brian.

[...]

>>I've asked you several times to tell me about your own investigations,
>>Brian.  

>See above.

See what above?  Tell me about the primary literature and documents 
you have examined.  Or is somebody still working feverishly to put
something together for you?

[...]

>If you read my post closely you'll notice that lies -tend- to be the
>case with the Holocaust.   I can only believe it will probably be the
>same with this claim.

No Brian.  Reading your post closely I see that you apparently *believe*
that this is the case.  And I also see that you apparently believe that
this is the case because you have been told it is the case, and perhaps
also because you the sort of simple thought processes that make massive
conspiracies sound like appealing explanations for things you don't 
understand or like, and because you hate Jooooooos.

[...]

>LOL!   This is sort of like saying that everything Clinton does is
>what the people favor.  And you really believe that?  How silly.

Well if you have any *evidence* that the majority of Germans don't
support these laws, then let's hear it.

[...]

>>Men have had no appreciable impact on the ongoing increase in violence
>>against women by men.  Therefore men are all guilty of violence against
>>women.  The male opposition has been lukewarm at best, which suggests
>>that all men are in favour of such violence.  Get the analogy?

>I hardly think the relationship between man and women is hardly
>commensurate to that between Whites and Jews.  Bad analogy.

You don't understand analogy. It was an analogy of "logic", Bri.

[...]

>>Who put a bunch of fascists in charge of the "White interest", Brian?

>I don't know.  Who put a bunch of Jews in charge of several key areas
>of the U.S. government, including the CIA, the Federal Reserve, and
>the Treasury?  (Deutch, Greenspan, Rubin)

This doesn't answer the question.

[...]

>I thought you said you weren't Jewish.  Now you tell me you were
>subjected to anti-semitic hate.  Which one is it?

It's both, not either, Brian.  I'm not Jewish, but a lot of people
look at my last name and either see it spelled differently than it
actually is or assume that the spelling has been changed.  Racists and 
antisemites respond to people based on what they *think* they are,
not on what they actually are.

>>[...] A lot of the people who 
>>support the laws are WWII veterans, Brian, people who fought the Nazis,
>>and who lost friends and family in that war.

>So what?  Are you insinuating that justifies it?

Duh, no, Brian.  But it is an explanation that doesn't require the
foisting of these laws onto an unwitting Gentile population by a
bunch of evil Joooooooooooo.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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cutter001@aol.com wrote:

>In article <847658042$3393@atype.com> Laura Finsten wrote:
	(that was cute, Cutty, but it was a mistake)

>>For TV, advertisers yank a programme that gets lousy viewer numbers and
>they yank them damn fast because they pay an arm and leg for advertising.

>Advertisers yank nothing (except their own adds).  Other than that they
>have no direct control over a programme, however, advertisers can refuse
>to advertise during specific programs if they see fit.

Yes indeedy, and if nobody's watching, advertisers don't want to buy
commercial time, do they, Cutty.  

>>Same thing with movies.  If people don't come out to watch a movie, it
>fades from the theaters real fast.

>If people don't "come out" to see a movie it will fade from the theater,
>but most movie studios these days are placing an increased value on
>over-seas and video sales, so much so that these factors are figured in in
>the projected profits of a film.

This is true.  But you are still assuming that viewers have no choice
about what to watch, as if they are passive idiots who don't have the
brains or the will to make decisions for themselves. Your little National
Appliance minions may so easily manipulated, but then they are hardly
representative of the population at large, are they.
  
>>So one observation I would make on this subject is that, with respect to
>"fluff" programming on television and movies, it doesn't matter who is
>making the stuff.

>I wonder if you would say that if the programs were made by "Nazis."

Well, this raises quite a different issue, doesn't it.  There is no
doubt that the Nazis (and I reserve that term for the NSDAP) exercised
very stringent control over all aspects of media in Germany and then
its conquered and occupied territories, including strict censorship
of all news reports.  Are you suggesting that the situation in North
America is even remotely comparable, Cutty?

>>What determines what stays there and is widely available for viewing is
>how many tune in.

>But when the content is designed to be persuasive in favor of certain
>political, social and other issues the people have no choice of what to
>tune in.

I have a real problem with the idea underlying this statement.  Well,
actually, "ideas".  I'll deal with the last one first.  The choice is
easy, Cutty, people can tune out.  Switch the sucker off.  Save your
money and get rid of cable.

How exactly is the media "persuasive in favor of certain political,
social and other issues", Cutty?  You might be able to point selectively
to a couple of commercial television programmes or movies that, as 
isolated cases, could be construed in this way.  But the overall body
of programming and movies certainly does not.  

>>I would say that your allegation that the maeia are "continually pushing
>race-mixing propaganda" is utterly false.

>" Social critic Michael Novak puts the effect of television in broad
>terms:"Television is a molder of the soul's geography.  It builds up
>incrementally a psychic structure of expectations.  It does so in much the
>same way that school lessons slowly, over the years, tutor the unformed
>mind and teach it how to think."
>THE MEDIA OF MASS COMMUNICATION 3d ed. John Vivian. p. 193

Yes, there is a lot of debate about the role of television in shaping
people.  This is the viewpoint adopted by those who favour censorship.
You in favour of censorship, Cutty?

>>Well, in the book, the character played by Washington (a PI) was "White".

>Then why make him black in the film.  Sounds like an agenda to me.

Yer right, of course, it's an agenda to make lots of money on the film.
Denzel Washington draws big audiences, big audiences mean big box office
receipts.

I wish you would indicate where you have edited parts of my post, Cutty.
Why didn't you address the elimination of the romance between these
two characters, since you/Brian are arguing that the "media agenda"
includes shoving interracial romance down the public's throats?

>>Prove to me that the owners of any newspaper exercise direct editorial
>control over its content.  Then do the same thng for netork television
>news.  Then maybe we'll have something to talk about.

>It's not the "owners" who control content on television, its the
>producers.  It you look at most of their names you will find alot of them
>to be jewish.

And how, exactly, do the Jewish and non-Jewish productions differ, Cutty?
With specific references to substance, please.

>" Scholars Linda and Robert Lichter who have surveyed the television
>creative community, make a case that the creators of television programs
>are social reformers who build their political ideas into their scripts. 
>The Lichters identify the television creative community as largely secular
>and politically liberal.  Among program creators whom they quote is Garry
>Marshall, the creative force behind "Happy Days" and later "Mork and
>Mindy": "The tag on "Mork" is almost like the sermon of the week, but it
>doesn't look like that.  It is very cleverly disguised to look like
>something else, but that's what it is".
>THE MEDIA OF MASS COMMUNICATION 3d ed.  John Vivian p. 193 Simon &
>Schuster Co.  Needham Heights, Mass. 02194

Gee, you know, you'd think that there was no diversity of opinion in 
North America, since everyone watches the same crap on television.  Yet
there is, isn't there.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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anndaltyn@aol.com wrote:

[...]

>The NA sees leadership and intelligence in its members 
[...]

Yet more evidence that Papa Pierce is delusional.

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>Your bot-like argument that Whites can't decide for themselves who
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a hoot!

>they want in their own White state is spurious.  White nationalists
>will decide from their own discretion based on appearance and
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          ^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, which means that everyone who isn't a member of your little
club is automatically suspect.  I'm sure you'll be received with
open arms, Brianbot.

Appearance, unspecified, of course.

>guidelines -or- genetic analysis in a close call -- always erring on
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Undoable.  And if you don't know that, you should.

>the side of exclusion.   Most questionables will not be attracted to a
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And, if already there, will be thrown out or, What, Brianbot, if 
they refuse to leave?

>White state, thus solving the problem in large part, leaving
>relatively few decisions to be made.   

Sure, Brianbot.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 14 09:37:01 PST 1996
Article: 45423 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 17:03:03 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
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Subject: Re: Don't ban the nazis, WHUP ON 'EM!
Lines: 38


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>cutter001@aol.com wrote:

[...]

>>I have a real problem with the idea underlying this statement.  Well,
>>actually, "ideas".  I'll deal with the last one first.  The choice is
>>easy, Cutty, people can tune out.  Switch the sucker off.  Save your
>>money and get rid of cable.

>His name is "Cutter."  Would you like to be called "Finstey" from now
>on?

Gee, Brianbot, what's the matter?  Can't your boss defend himself?
Is he so upset that I misspelled his "name" that he sent you to 
chastise me?  So that's Mr. Cutter, eh?  Not Mr. 001?  or Mr. cutter001?

His post to me began with this:
     In article <847658042$3393@atype.com> Laura Finstein wrote:

Well, you can tell your boss that I'll make an extra effort to spell
his name properly when he extends me the same courtesy.  Or did he
attach Ian's wife's nose to his newreader and sniff out a Jew somewhere
in my geneaology?

[...]

You just keep repeating the same assertions, no evidence, same rant.
Booooorrrrrring, Brianbot, real boring.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 06:32:26 PST 1996
Article: 79512 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: keyboards aren't kosher
Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:44:53 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <56fia5$44h@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
>On 10 Nov 1996 17:46:17 GMT, Laura Finsten
> wrote:

>>hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
>>>On Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:07:03 GMT, *@*.* (* *) wrote:

>>>>	They are finished with pig fat added to the polymer coating

>>>So, who's eating the keyboards, you silly twit?

>>Harry, really!  This is a major concern for Mr. Giwer because
>>he so often ends his net stints (or should that be stunts?)
>>with his face in his keyboard.

>Dr. Finsten is only partially correct. The gentleman to whom she
>aludes usually ends up with his head in the spitoon, not the keyboard.
>One can only wonder if saliva is kosher...


Oh dear....  this evokes some most unpleasant imagery....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 06:53:17 PST 1996
Article: 35762 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:02:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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rdunsheath@akamail.com wrote:

[...]

>Why don't you download an update of Netscape?  You are using
>V 1.1 aren't you?  Version 3.01 is now out.
>Free Agent is also good for reading news[...]

I like my software just fine, thanks.

>Hell, you keep me busy just skipping over all your posts.

Perhaps you should try something with killfile capabilities.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 06:53:18 PST 1996
Article: 35792 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: blood sucking BRIAN SMITH and other subhuman garbage
Date: 14 Nov 1996 19:42:10 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <56fsmi$bnr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    Here we go again:  anyone who disagrees with this guy is A Nazi Who
>Wants To Kill Six Million Jews.

Looks like you're coming out of the closet as a Holocaust denier,
Bob.  No wonder you don't get it about "jokes" about Jews and ovens.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 07:05:25 PST 1996
Article: 49313 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:02:30 GMT
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rdunsheath@akamail.com wrote:

[...]

>Why don't you download an update of Netscape?  You are using
>V 1.1 aren't you?  Version 3.01 is now out.
>Free Agent is also good for reading news[...]

I like my software just fine, thanks.

>Hell, you keep me busy just skipping over all your posts.

Perhaps you should try something with killfile capabilities.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 08:36:39 PST 1996
Article: 45461 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 16:18:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: Q for those who object to Jews
Lines: 48


sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney) wrote:

>>>In message <847689497$5058@atype.com> - Laura Finsten  writes:

>>Sort of like a well-trained dog that can sniff out drugs, or one of those
>>pigs that finds truffles?  So you think that your wife's sniffing ability
>>should supercede any objective assessment of a person's identity?  That 
>>will certainly make people confident, won't it.

>What "people"are you talking about, who "need" to be made "confident"
>Mrs. Finsten?  Those who want White separation know it is fairly easy
>for Whites to choose who is White and who is not.  They already have
>full confidence.

Gee, Bri, I guess I'm talking about all those people who don't know all the
details of their great-great grandparents ancestry.  If one great-great
grandparent who wasn't "White" disqualifies you from membership in your
White dream home, then what happens if you have a couple of great-great-
great grandparents who aren't all White, Bri?  Did you finish elementary
school, Bri?  Can you figure out the arithmetic on that?

>Who lacks confidence -- you?   Well, that does not matter in the
>least.  You have no wish to participate in a White state.  Your
>"confidence" is not needed.

If your White state rips up my country, it is as much my concern as
anyone else's.

[...]

>Fractional traces can be "washed out" -if- necessary, Mrs Finsten.  

So you keep suggesting, Brian. What you haven't been either able or
willing to say, though, is how you are going to detect these "fractional
traces".  Don't you know, Brian, or is it a deep dark secret so that
people won't start to get nervous about their own distant genealogies?

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 08:36:40 PST 1996
Article: 45514 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 19:48:04 GMT
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Subject: Re: Black Resettlement Program
Lines: 37


mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney) wrote:

>In message <847651696$3043@atype.com> - Laura Finsten  writes:

>:>kgrubb@ix.netcom.com (Ken Grubb) wrote:

[...]

>:>>That might take a while.  First we gotta find a Nazi Ninny who CAN
>:>>count to two.

>:>That shouldn't be so hard.  If you can train them to wiggle one toe
>:>for each functioning brain cell...

>Hell, Finstein, that would still be one more than you have.

Well Ian, at least I have enough operating neurons to be able to spell
your name right.


[...]

>More Commie-Jew crap. Emma Goldman, she used to write for the Communists 
>paper, _New Masses_.

>Well, at least you admit to being a commie. 

Duh, Ian, aren't you the one I told on apw-p that I think of it as
anarchist humour?  Hard to tell, you guys all sound the same.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 08:36:42 PST 1996
Article: 45533 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 20:18:23 GMT
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Subject: Re: "Backwoods" Mike Vanderboegh: LIAR, HYPOCRITE,INADEQUATE FOOL
Lines: 8


How many volumes did you say the Talmud is, Bri?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Nov 15 08:36:43 PST 1996
Article: 45552 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 16:33:04 GMT
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Subject: Re: "Backwoods" Mike Vanderboegh: LIAR, HYPOCRITE,INADEQUATE FOOL
Lines: 32


smaceach@polar.Bowdoin.EDU (Scott MacEachern) wrote:

[...]

>Brian wouldn't know how to _find_ a library. This stuff that he's
>copied here is posted in various anti-Jewish sites on the Internet --
>it's all one document, published by some nut cases called The Old
>Order Brotherhood. You can find it, for example, at
>http://www3.stormfront.org/jewish/talmud.html

Yeah, I know, Scott.  It has been said that I sometimes go too far
in giving people the benefit of the doubt.  I gave him the opportunity
to admit that he's just posting junk he's downloaded (or someone else
has downloaded for him) from the usual run-of-the-mill white
supremacist websites.  He didn't want to come clean.  I'm not
surprised.

>Tell me, Brian, with all this stuff that you emit about fearless
>scholarship, have you _ever_ read a book on you own, or do you always
>just regurgitate the bits of stuff that your masters have told you to
>believe?

I think someone is trying to compile some stuff on Goldhagen and
Browning for him.  I can't believe he'd actually read anything.
I'm not sure he'd really know how.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 16 06:58:40 PST 1996
Article: 79634 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 14 Nov 1996 15:43:59 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

[...]

>Algunos gusanos al menos tienen alguna esperanza de transformarse en
>mariposas. Lamentablemente nuestro mundo esta poblado de seres
>quasi-humanos  indistinguibles de los gusanos.  Estas lombrices
>bipedas mueren a la luz de la verdad. Matemos algunas!


De acuerdo.  ¡Encendamos la flama en que inevitablemente se inmolan
las potillas!  O, sin el dramatismo, aplastemos los pinche....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 16 07:07:48 PST 1996
Article: 35836 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 13:05:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <56hppv$870@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557gg1$e7p@news1.ucsd.edu> <3277D3D0.47ED@conterra.com> <55a4cn$pqt@news1.ucsd.edu> <327A6A92.B5F@conterra.com> <55fr64$p77@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <327CEF9B.4404@conterra.com> <55lnbu$cb9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32891475.A97@conterra.com> <56d0an$kau@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328A5FD8.2044@conterra.com> <56f7vv$q4r@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328b6e87.4065218@news.idsonline.com>
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marshall@haverford.edu (Pete Marshall) wrote:

[...]

>One thing you're clearly NOT being "paid to do" is to respond
>on-topic.  Or, you're doing your job very poorly.  Why not take your
>personal slurs to a private forum?

Pete, have you followed this thread?  I agree with you that my education
and what I do for a living are irrelevant.  I'm not the one who is
making an issue of this.  So why aren't you on the case of the person
who is?  



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 16 07:07:48 PST 1996
Article: 35849 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.flint.umich.edu!news.gmi.edu!aanews.merit.net!news.cic.net!newsrelay.netins.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 14 Nov 1996 15:43:59 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

[...]

>Algunos gusanos al menos tienen alguna esperanza de transformarse en
>mariposas. Lamentablemente nuestro mundo esta poblado de seres
>quasi-humanos  indistinguibles de los gusanos.  Estas lombrices
>bipedas mueren a la luz de la verdad. Matemos algunas!


De acuerdo.  ¡Encendamos la flama en que inevitablemente se inmolan
las potillas!  O, sin el dramatismo, aplastemos los pinche....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 06:44:25 PST 1996
Article: 80142 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Are you watching, Ehrlich?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:11:22 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <56n9uq$1o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <560b1o$2l3@atlas.uniserve.com> <19961109013300.UAA05888@ladder01.news.aol.com>   <328d75e8.26077291@news.gte.net>
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pj@o.rourke (Leprechaun) wrote:

[...]

>	What an ignorant, silly shit you are to think that public posts are
>private conversation.

And what are you that you think that Matt Giwer's "contributions"
constitute "conversation"?  Besides a piss poor conversationalist,
I mean.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:38 PST 1996
Article: 35950 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration
Subject: Re: blood sucking Brian Smith
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:20:33 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56kpkh$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <559mqr$a5e@is05.micron.net> <55f3fa$pqr@keelung.transend.com.tw> <55gccm$oa0@is05.micron.net>  <55qrfc$9l5@is05.micron.net> <55rksc$696@orion.cybercom.net> <55u2ku$ggu@is05.micron.net> <96314.144654CSKBB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> <5639gt$aho@is05.micron.net> <56ehle$2ll@reader.seed.net.tw> <56iea4$ipk@opera.iinet.net.au>
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reverend@iinet.net.au (AgamemnoN) wrote:

>The only thing different between Brian Smith and Jim Walsh is that
>Brian Smith has the ability to QUESTION and Jimbo has has the ability
>to CONSUME!!!

>It is quite and absolutely irrelevant whether All Brian's facts are
>100% correct, but by his true nature, he willl constantly revise these
>facts untill a finite conclusion is obtained. If presented with
>another revised factsheet of statistics he will no doubt honestly
>present these.

I've been following a discussion between "Brian Smith" and an
Africanist archaeologist over on misc.activism.militia.  Among
other things, they've been talking about African colonial history
and prehistory.  The Africanist has been doing research in Africa
for, oh I'm not sure, 10 or 15 year.  Discovering new facts, in
other words.  He is also extremely knowledgeable about African
history and, because he has spent so much time living Africa while
he does his research there, has considerable first-hand experience
of African people, and contemporary African societies and culture.

It is pretty obvious, though, that Brian's brain, if he has one,
is closed shut as tight as a rusted steel trap.  He knows nothing
about African history or Africans except what he has read in 
racist propaganda rags.  And he clearly isn't interested in learning.
He doesn't argue positions, he denies their veracity based on
nothing more than his scant "knowledge" and prejudices.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:39 PST 1996
Article: 35951 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Diversity does NOT means defeat of any race
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:29:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <56kq4q$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <54a3vf$hsi@is05.micron.net> <326A16FA.7B84@transend.com.tw>  <19961114.231718.346935.NETNEWS@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU> <56ifp9$poe@opera.iinet.net.au>
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reverend@iinet.net.au (AgamemnoN) wrote:

[...]

>The thing you gutless snivvelling clones do not realize is that EVERY
>TIME A PATRIOTIC PERSON LIKE BOB WHO SAYS WHAT HE BELIEVES, HIS CAREER
>AND LIFE IS AT JEOPARDY (just ask Ernst or Germar)..

You call someone who wants to expel American citizens from parts of
the United States for no other reason that he doesn't like they're
religion and/or place of origin and/or ancestry a patriot?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:40 PST 1996
Article: 36043 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: blood sucking BRIAN SMITH and BOB WHITAKER
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:40:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <56n4kp$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <3288CE4E.3EF5@conterra.com> <56dktj$h9v@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> <56grhv$1vh@is05.micron.net> <56iuiq$6fg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56mfqp$6l3@is05.micron.net>
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>If only I were to denounce Jews being persecuted at the Fake
>Holocaust, Mrs. "Finsten" would then be awash in bathos and maudlin
>moralizing to "condemn the genocide!"   But since it is "only Whites"
>being destroyed, then of course that's "OK" and "no big loss" with
>Mrs. Finsten.   

"awash in bathos"?????

Brian, find yourself a good dictionary and look up the word "genocide".
Then come back and explain to me exactly how "Whites" are the object
of genocide.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:41 PST 1996
Article: 36044 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.con
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:42:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <56n4oe$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55l7ct$6d1@noc.van.hookup.net>  <56gm7d$1vh@is05.micron.net> <56l2dn$1r1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56mg48$6l3@is05.micron.net>
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>How interesting.  The Red Cross inspectors, investigating these
>claims, found completely the opposite during 1944.  Conditions didn't
>deteriorate fully until the Allies bombed the German supply lines.
>What do you expect.  Interesting you brought it up because lIberation
>photos of Dachau show healthy and even cheerful inmates.  Something's
>indeed fishy with the Tale.

And what do the liberation photos from Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz
show, Brian?  Or do you think the stacks of emaciated corpses look
"cheerful"?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:42 PST 1996
Article: 36045 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:44:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <56n4s9$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <01bbd33c$eac1f9a0$edf6aec7@default> <56kq6g$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <01bbd40f$2ab19660$40b7aec7@default> <56m7pi$lul@portal.gmu.edu>
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hkilpatr@osf1.gmu.edu (HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.) wrote:
>Rad (gconrad@sprynet.com) wrote:

>: Laura Finsten  wrote in article
>: <56kq6g$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>...

>: > Reading your posts makes me think it's already been done.

>: You know what they said about a chimp and a typewriter (now word
>: processor). He could write Hamlet given enough time.

>Keep posting, J. Fred.  You'll get Hamlet out within the next century or
>two. 


I think that's overly optimistic.  But even if a chimp were to succeed,
the crucial difference is that the chimp would have no idea what he
had created.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:43 PST 1996
Article: 36059 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,sci.bio.misc,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 17 Nov 1996 15:58:53 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <56ncnt$10d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <5686r2$o31@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com> <56fu0j$kvt@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> <328BEC55.27CA@conterra.com> <56ip9d$p58@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com> <56kp4d$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> 
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carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) wrote:

[...]

>Your talking so openly on usenet runs the risk of exposing us all!

>Now we are forced to track every Aryan who might have read your
>message and ensure they decide it's in their best interest not
>to interfere.

We could try offering them a free lifetime supply of foil.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:44 PST 1996
Article: 36062 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: ab.politics,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,ca.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,ta
Subject: Re: Bob Whitaker: causing strife through the racist agenda
Date: 17 Nov 1996 16:03:47 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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marshall@haverford.edu (Pete Marshall) wrote:

[...]

>Classic strategy: you don't like the message?  Attack the messenger.  

Which describes perfectly the only  form of "debate" Bob Whitaker
has ever engaged in here.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:45 PST 1996
Article: 36072 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:30:08 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Reading your posts makes me think it's already been done.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:46 PST 1996
Article: 36074 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 17 Nov 1996 19:08:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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hkilpatr@osf1.gmu.edu (HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.) wrote:

[...]

>That won't stop J. Fred, a.k.a. "rad."  As long as someone keeps the
>bananas coming he'll keep typing. 

I guess it's time to cut off the bananas, then, eh?  I just couldn't
resist that one-liner, though.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:47 PST 1996
Article: 36076 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,sci.bio.misc,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:11:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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gtaylor@msn.fullfeed.com (Gregory Taylor) wrote:

[...]

> Where *does* he get this stuff - orbiting Masonic mind-control satellite
>broadcasts?

Actually, I find his continual rants highly encouraging, if somewhat
tediuous.  They are pretty good evidence that the kosher foil project
*is* working, and so I might get back my job running that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:48 PST 1996
Article: 36132 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: ab.politics,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,ca.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,ta
Subject: Re: Bob Whitaker: causing strife through the racist agenda
Date: 18 Nov 1996 15:02:21 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>        By the way, as a Great Professional Scientific Anthropologist, I
>wonder why YOu didn't bring up what frank@clark.net above did, about the
>white skull the Indians buried so they wouldn't have to deal with early
>Caucasoids here.  

Well, Bob, apparently like you, I don't read everything posted on this
newsgroup.  I didn't see it.  I have heard a little bit about that case
on CBC radio, though I was unaware that it had already been reburied.
I've been waiting to see a scientific report on the case.  The dating
has not been established through geophysical methods, if I remember
correctly.  The other problem, too, is that whatever Bonnichsen says,
you can't make a "racial determination" based on skeletal remains that
is 100 percent certain.  Would you like to me to post references about
the whole process of making such determinations, about the margins of
error, and that stuff?

Interesting that you are accusing the natives of trying to hide the
"nasty truth".  Course, in this case, the scientists involved are
real upset about the native decision, so you can't accuse them of
trying to hide some big bad politically incorrrect truth, can you.

>Also his point taht noboyd, but nobody, among the
>scientists involved brought up t his crap about there is no such thing
>as race or race couldn't be determined from a skull.

No Bob, there is a bunch of literature on this.  It is a matter of
probabilities, not certainties.  I don't have a great deal of respect
for the one scientist I know of who is involved in this project,
although I might be misjudging him.  He did some work about 20 years
ago arguing for 200,000 year old tools made out of mammoth bone.
When the only piece that was clearly the product of human manufacture
was finally radiocarbon dated, using AMS, it turned out to be about
2500 years old (it was made of caribou, rather than mammoth, bone).

>	Actually, I don't wonder.  It's not Poltically Correct, of course.

No, there isn't much you wonder about.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:21:49 PST 1996
Article: 36150 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:11:53 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <56qfu9$enf@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <01bbd33c$eac1f9a0$edf6aec7@default> <56kq6g$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <01bbd40f$2ab19660$40b7aec7@default> <56m7pi$lul@portal.gmu.edu> <56n4s9$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32907BA5.56A3@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    Yes, but by that time a statement like that would be Speciesism(a
>real word, you know).  You Scientific Anthropologists would have
>dutifully proved that there is no real difference between a chimp and a
>human, and anybody who says there is would be A Nazi Who Wanted To Kill
>Six Million Jews.
>    And, of course, Anti-Intellectual.

You're hilarious, Bob.  The genetic difference between a chimp and 
a human is something like 3 percent.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:23 PST 1996
Article: 49390 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 13:05:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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marshall@haverford.edu (Pete Marshall) wrote:

[...]

>One thing you're clearly NOT being "paid to do" is to respond
>on-topic.  Or, you're doing your job very poorly.  Why not take your
>personal slurs to a private forum?

Pete, have you followed this thread?  I agree with you that my education
and what I do for a living are irrelevant.  I'm not the one who is
making an issue of this.  So why aren't you on the case of the person
who is?  



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:23 PST 1996
Article: 49405 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 14 Nov 1996 15:43:59 GMT
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hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

[...]

>Algunos gusanos al menos tienen alguna esperanza de transformarse en
>mariposas. Lamentablemente nuestro mundo esta poblado de seres
>quasi-humanos  indistinguibles de los gusanos.  Estas lombrices
>bipedas mueren a la luz de la verdad. Matemos algunas!


De acuerdo.  ¡Encendamos la flama en que inevitablemente se inmolan
las potillas!  O, sin el dramatismo, aplastemos los pinche....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:24 PST 1996
Article: 49496 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration
Subject: Re: blood sucking Brian Smith
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:20:33 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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reverend@iinet.net.au (AgamemnoN) wrote:

>The only thing different between Brian Smith and Jim Walsh is that
>Brian Smith has the ability to QUESTION and Jimbo has has the ability
>to CONSUME!!!

>It is quite and absolutely irrelevant whether All Brian's facts are
>100% correct, but by his true nature, he willl constantly revise these
>facts untill a finite conclusion is obtained. If presented with
>another revised factsheet of statistics he will no doubt honestly
>present these.

I've been following a discussion between "Brian Smith" and an
Africanist archaeologist over on misc.activism.militia.  Among
other things, they've been talking about African colonial history
and prehistory.  The Africanist has been doing research in Africa
for, oh I'm not sure, 10 or 15 year.  Discovering new facts, in
other words.  He is also extremely knowledgeable about African
history and, because he has spent so much time living Africa while
he does his research there, has considerable first-hand experience
of African people, and contemporary African societies and culture.

It is pretty obvious, though, that Brian's brain, if he has one,
is closed shut as tight as a rusted steel trap.  He knows nothing
about African history or Africans except what he has read in 
racist propaganda rags.  And he clearly isn't interested in learning.
He doesn't argue positions, he denies their veracity based on
nothing more than his scant "knowledge" and prejudices.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:25 PST 1996
Article: 49497 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The technique of dismissing without reading
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:26:45 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <56kq05$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <56d91h$hdj@lex.zippo.com>
 <848071893.15016@dejanews.com> <56jae8$lp2@lex.zippo.com>
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Ourobouros wrote:

[...]

>There is sufficient evidence from both of you on whether your theses are
>worth reading or not.  Since you cannot maintain a logical pattern to
>your posts, you jump in the middle of a discussion headfirst, and your
>posts are down-right boring, which basically means you lack the mental
>requirement to write a meaningful thesis.

You clearly don't understand rules of evidence, Twinkletoes.  Or maybe
you understand them as well as you do French.  Comprends tu?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:26 PST 1996
Article: 49498 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Diversity does NOT means defeat of any race
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:29:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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reverend@iinet.net.au (AgamemnoN) wrote:

[...]

>The thing you gutless snivvelling clones do not realize is that EVERY
>TIME A PATRIOTIC PERSON LIKE BOB WHO SAYS WHAT HE BELIEVES, HIS CAREER
>AND LIFE IS AT JEOPARDY (just ask Ernst or Germar)..

You call someone who wants to expel American citizens from parts of
the United States for no other reason that he doesn't like they're
religion and/or place of origin and/or ancestry a patriot?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:27 PST 1996
Article: 49591 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 17 Nov 1996 13:44:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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hkilpatr@osf1.gmu.edu (HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.) wrote:
>Rad (gconrad@sprynet.com) wrote:

>: Laura Finsten  wrote in article
>: <56kq6g$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>...

>: > Reading your posts makes me think it's already been done.

>: You know what they said about a chimp and a typewriter (now word
>: processor). He could write Hamlet given enough time.

>Keep posting, J. Fred.  You'll get Hamlet out within the next century or
>two. 


I think that's overly optimistic.  But even if a chimp were to succeed,
the crucial difference is that the chimp would have no idea what he
had created.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:27 PST 1996
Article: 49613 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:30:08 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Reading your posts makes me think it's already been done.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:28 PST 1996
Article: 49614 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 17 Nov 1996 19:08:14 GMT
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hkilpatr@osf1.gmu.edu (HENRY E. KILPATRICK JR.) wrote:

[...]

>That won't stop J. Fred, a.k.a. "rad."  As long as someone keeps the
>bananas coming he'll keep typing. 

I guess it's time to cut off the bananas, then, eh?  I just couldn't
resist that one-liner, though.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:29 PST 1996
Article: 49677 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.feminazis,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Let's cross an ape with a human
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:11:53 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    Yes, but by that time a statement like that would be Speciesism(a
>real word, you know).  You Scientific Anthropologists would have
>dutifully proved that there is no real difference between a chimp and a
>human, and anybody who says there is would be A Nazi Who Wanted To Kill
>Six Million Jews.
>    And, of course, Anti-Intellectual.

You're hilarious, Bob.  The genetic difference between a chimp and 
a human is something like 3 percent.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 07:41:30 PST 1996
Article: 49722 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.music.hardcore
Subject: Re: Hitler was just an in-tune guy
Date: 18 Nov 1996 20:08:36 GMT
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Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <56ib6s$ldq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...

>>Ourobouros wrote:

[...]

>>>5.  Concerning the Mesoamerican civilisations, the jury is still out.  

>>Only in your mind, Twinkletoes, only in your mind.

>If that is so, prove Heyerdahl wrong.


I recommend a good textbook on Mesoamerican prehistory, such as
Muriel Porter Weaver's.  The archaeological evidence overwhelmingly
supports autochthonous historical change, from first settlement at
least 10,000 years ago, through the domestication of a variety of
plants and the development of agriculture, the emergence of settled
villages and the development of incipient sociopolitical hierarchies,
writing, the calendar, the emergence of states...  Nobody can *prove*
that someone didn't drift across one ocean or other and wash up on
the shores of Central America.  But if that did happen, there is *no*
reason to believe that such an isolated event transformed the
historical development of Mesoamerica society and culture.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:42:59 PST 1996
Article: 42671 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: 14 Nov 1996 15:43:59 GMT
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hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

[...]

>Algunos gusanos al menos tienen alguna esperanza de transformarse en
>mariposas. Lamentablemente nuestro mundo esta poblado de seres
>quasi-humanos  indistinguibles de los gusanos.  Estas lombrices
>bipedas mueren a la luz de la verdad. Matemos algunas!


De acuerdo.  ¡Encendamos la flama en que inevitablemente se inmolan
las potillas!  O, sin el dramatismo, aplastemos los pinche....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:21 PST 1996
Article: 45578 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 18:48:23 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...

You so clearly do not know what you are talking about, that I'm not going
to waste my time responding to all of this.  I'll make this point with
the airphoto discussion.

>>>>>>Why do aerial photos demonstrate there are were no
>>>>>>vents over the gas chambers?   

>>>>>They don't, if you are referring to the induction vents on the roofs
>>>>>of the Kremas built later on.

>>>>The photos were taken at a time when the "gas chambers" were said to
>>>>be fully operational.

>>>You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Which airphoto?
>>>Or airphotos?  

>ALL of them are in the time frame of fully operational.  

No Brian, all of them are *not*.  Three of the widely published photos
post-date the decommissioning of the gas chambers.  Several detail
the dismantling of various parts of Auschwitz-Birkenau.  One of them
shows that the roofs had been removed from two of the gas chambers.
Want me to give you more hints and tell you which ones?

>>>They normally are referred to by the date upon which they
>>>were shot.  I've got the Brugioni and Poirier report as well Ball's book
>>>sitting right here, but if you don't tell me which specific photo(s)
>>>you are referring to, I don't know what to look at.  

>You obviously either do not have Ball or have not read Ball as he
>tells you what to look for.  

I don't need to be *told* what to look for Bri, apparently unlike you.
I note that you still haven't indicated specifically what photos and
which crematoria you are referring to.  You probably don't even know
how many crematoria there were, or which ones were operational at
which times.  Maybe Mr. cutter001 can help you out with that.

>>>Not only that, Bri,
>>>you've got to tell me which Kremas you're talking about.  Are you 
>>>referring to II and III, IV and V?  All four? 

>It is strange to discover someone at this late date claiming that
>the miraculously fast cremation rates could be accomplished with less
>than all four in operation.  

Answer the question, Brian.  Your ignorance about the topic which you
claim to have researched yourself so thoroughly is glaringly obvious.

>You rather appear to be hiding behind innumerable questions than to
>be taking a position of your own.  It leade me to suspect you have no
>position of your own.

How can I have a position about a statement you have made that makes 
no sense, Brian?  Oh, you're an expert in that.  I forgot.  

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:22 PST 1996
Article: 45591 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 18:18:45 GMT
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cutter001@aol.com wrote:

>In message <847990983$22106@atype.com> Laura Finsten wrote:

>>Gee, Brianbot, what's the matter?  Can't your boss defend himself?  Is he
>so upset that I misspelled his "name" that he sent you to chastise me?  So
>that's Mr. Cutter, eh? Not Mr. 001? or Mr. cutter001?

>Um, I hate to say this Laura, but I don't know Brain, I didn't "send him"
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm not into flaming people for typos but this one struck me as particularly
cute.  And apt.

>to chastise you, and I'm not his boss.  I do however appreciate his
>posting on my behalf, I guess its that sense of community Arleen spoke of.

You all think so much alike that any mouth will do?  Rather borg-like
community you describe, Mr. cutter001.  Or is cutter your first name
and 001 your last?  I'd like to address you properly, but I'm not
familiar with names that come with numerals in them.

>Ms/Mrs. Finsten, I am sorry for spelling your name wrong, it was not
>intentional and I will try to make sure it does not happen again.  

Apology accepted.  Silly me.  I actually thought you would know that
you don't have to type in my entire post, agonising letter by letter,
but can copy it in electronically.  And that one of the parts that
gets copied by your news software is the header with the name of
the person you're responding to and the ID number of the post.
Glad I could help out, though.  Now that you know this, I'm sure
it will save you a lot of time.

>Your
>point about the "romance" being taken out ot the "Pelican Brief" is, in my
>opinion, not valid because, as most people know, films are often edited
>for content, as well as time constaints.  When faced with the choice of
>keeping "romance" scenes in a picture of this type, or keeping "thrill" or
>"action" scenes most directors and producers will edit out the romance.

Really lame.
 
>As to your second point about Mr. Washingtons box office appeal being the
>only reason for his landing the par,t I disagree.  There are literally
>dozens of "White" actors whose box office draw far exceeds Mr.
>Washingtons.

People magazine voted him this year's sexiest man alive.

>Oh, and by the way Laura, thanks for confirming my promotion.  I'll try to
>make you proud....:-)

S'all right.  We at Nizkor/ZOG are always happy to have another infiltrator
in the NA's ranks. ;-)


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:23 PST 1996
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 17:04:01 GMT
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Laura Finsten  wrote:

>smaceach@polar.Bowdoin.EDU (Scott MacEachern) wrote:


[...]

>>Ummm, looked at a Bible lately, Brian ol' boy? Check the Old
>>Testament, some time. Then take into account the fact that the Talmud
>>is a set of _commentaries_ on the Scriptures. Now, Brian, look up a
>>set of _Christian_ religious writings on the Jews from, say, the late
>>Roman Empire or the medieval period or the Counter-Reformation. Y'see
>>all the hatefulness directed toward Jews in those commentaries? That's
>>the context in which the Talmud was written.

Wow, this is definitely one of more my garbled offerings.  Brian's
mind-numbing repetition of predigested antisemitic pap must have
put me to sleep.    I'll try to get it better:

It is too complex for his simple mind, Scott.  Brian is neither 
interested in nor, it appears, capable of thinking about something
as significant and interesting as the context in which the Talmud
was written.  If he doesn't, one of his fellow minions will jerk
his knees and say that antisemitism was rampant because the evil
Joooooos  were using Christian babies' blood to make Passover 
matzohs, and poisoning wells to give everyone bubonic plague.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:24 PST 1996
Article: 45673 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 17:04:09 GMT
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medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S. Medintz) wrote:

[...]

>Hell, this is the state where peppermint herb tea is stamped "Hot'n'Spicy"
>on the shelf at Dillons. Nobody here can HANDLE the truth that is Tabasco.

Ah, but have you tried the truth that is habanero sauce?  This is how
we tell a real ZOG agent from a would be infiltrator.  Well, that and
our secret lasers, of course, to see if they have spines.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:24 PST 1996
Article: 45723 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 15:33:32 GMT
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Subject: Re: Question for the Nazis
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>rbdwsn  wrote:

[...]

>>>You have refuted nothing that has been said for the last three weeks. All 
>>>you have learned to do from your masters (mistresses?) at Nizcor, SPLC,

>>Adams!! You were under *strict* orders *not* to kiss and tell.  I'm afraid
>>this is going to require disciplinary action.  Report to ZOGCanCen HQ
>>*immediately*!

>A fine attempt at parody.


You think I was joking, Brian?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:25 PST 1996
Article: 45729 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 15:48:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: "Backwoods" Mike Vanderboegh: LIAR, HYPOCRITE,INADEQUATE FOOL
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:


>Right.  As if the statement "goyim are dogs" or "the goyim are slaves
>in animal form" are "contextual" statements.  I guess asking you to
>read the Jewish scholar Shakak on the Talmud to challenge your

Give me the complete reference (author's full name, title,
publisher, year of publication, and ISBN), and I'll order it
>from  interlibrary loan.  I told you nothing came up when I 
searched under author=shakak on my library database.

>preconceived ignorance would be like asking a cat to take a bath
>voluntarily.   I guess "evil Nazis" wrote the Talmud to frame the
>Jews.

Rats, my cover is blown.

Laura Felinestein, OFB
Top Cat
FOG (Feline Occupation Government)

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:27 PST 1996
Article: 45837 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 14:03:19 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <848239399$4668@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Don't ban the nazis, WHUP ON 'EM!
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>hmcom@eskimo.com (company account) wrote:

[...]

>>It is interesting to note that individual responsibility is unknown in
>>the communist and collectivist world.  When the individual makes a
>>mistake their relatives and associates are punished.

>>This is why the national socialist nazis find it so easy to condem
>>whole races of people.  In their world the sins of a few people
>>justify the genocide of millions.

>Actually, the Jewish Holocaust industry continually blames not only
>the entire German nation as a whole, both present and past, for the
>hoax-crimes of the Holocaust Myth (tm), but the entire White race as
>well.   

More lies out of the keyboard of "Brian Smith".  You really haven't
read any of the history of the Holocaust and of the NSDAP era at all,
have you?  More of your borg-like "thinking", Bri, which you would
know if you had. 

>And they continue to collect both politically and financially
>in spades for these collectivist accusations.   

But even if it were true, given that you are so critical of 
"collectivist" thinking and/or accusations, does this somehow
justify yours?  Or is this more of your hypocrisy showing through?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:28 PST 1996
Article: 45844 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 14:48:04 GMT
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Is this supposed to be an example of "White superiority"?
Learn to write.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:29 PST 1996
Article: 45845 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 14:48:12 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>>You think I was joking, Brian?

>I said an "attempt."  I didn't say your attempt was successful.


Brian, Brian, Brian.  You really should get some help with your
reading comprehension.  This issue wasn't whether it was a good
joke or a bad joke, but whether it was a joke at all.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:30 PST 1996
Article: 45846 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 16:03:03 GMT
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pkasieck@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Philip Kasiecki) wrote:

>In article <847574302$29219@atype.com>,
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:
>: sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>: >Exclusively White meaning Whites EXCLUDED non-Whites from
>: >participation in White political and social life -- non-Whites were
>: >marginalized.  America used to be exclusively White.  

>: And by this standard, it was a single-sex nation, since women were
>: excluded from the political process and many aspects of social life
>: and earlier this century.  Interesting concept, no?

>    Thank you, Laura, for illustrating my point about how separatism
>connects with sexism.

Yer welcome, Phil.  It's interesting, isn't it, that not only do this
National Appliance types think that "Whites" are too stupid to make
their own decisions about what to read or watch on television, but
also, apparently, that it was perfectly OK that women were denied
political participation.  I guess they think women are even dumber
than "White" men.  

I noticed that Brian didn't seem to have a response to that one, either.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:32 PST 1996
Article: 45973 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 20:18:46 GMT
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Subject: Re: Brianbot on Identifying "Whites"
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>So you are saying that non-Whites or even questionables won't stick
>out like a sore thumb in a White state?   That they can't be
>identified?

>It will work fine:   as easy as applying for membership in the NA.

What are the criteria for *acceptance* as a member of the NA, Bri?
Back to the 1/16 rule, which you can't seem to comprehend.  Geez,
you idjits couldn't even figure out how many generations back that
goes.  I'd love to see you grapple with the arithmetic complexities
of mixed heritage in the all ascending generations.  Wanna give
that one a whirl, Bri?

[...]

>That just burns you up, doesn't it?  You would just LOVE think that
>Whites are incapable of deciding whom they want to be in their state!
>(laugh)

No, Bri, it makes me laugh.  Although I admit at the same I pity
you your gullibility.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:33 PST 1996
Article: 45977 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:36:38 GMT
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Subject: Re: "Backwoods" Mike Vanderboegh: LIAR, HYPOCRITE,INADEQUATE FOOL
Lines: 20


mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney) wrote:

[...]

>It's Shahak, not Shakak.

Oh yes, I've found it now.

>_Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years_, Israel 
>Shahak, 1994, Pluto Press. ISBN 0-7453-0818-X 

Maybe I'll be able to find time to read it over the Christmas break, and we
can discuss it on apw-p.  You're not gonna be here for much longer, I gather.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:34 PST 1996
Article: 45978 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:35:07 GMT
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Daniel Kuehne  wrote:

[...]

>> "If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
>>           Emma Goldman

>I don't get it... please explain :)

Well, I saw this quotation on a t-shirt, shortly after I read
Milton Kleim's little bit about "decent White dances" being the
only acceptable dances in an "all White homeland".  You know,
waltzes, polkas, jigs and reels.  I found the Goldman quotation 
rather ironic in this context, and decided to adopt it.  Goldman 
was an anarchist, rather than a communist, and didn't much like 
having other people tell her what she could or couldn't do.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:35 PST 1996
Article: 46046 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 19:48:19 GMT
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hmcom@eskimo.com (company account) wrote:


[...]

>It is interesting to note that individual responsibility is unknown in
>the communist and collectivist world.  When the individual makes a
>mistake their relatives and associates are punished.

>This is why the national socialist nazis find it so easy to condem
>whole races of people.  In their world the sins of a few people
>justify the genocide of millions.

And at the same time, in their own minds at least, it absolves them
of any personal responsibility for either their own actions or for
their sorry lives.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 19 09:52:36 PST 1996
Article: 46146 of misc.activism.militia
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 15:34:37 GMT
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Daniel Kuehne  wrote:

[...]

>Uh, Laura, just one thing to point out here... nothing against women voters or anything, 
>but if they didn't vote, Clinton wouldn't have been President after next January... he 
>would have lost by one percentage point. Remember the gigantic "gender gap"? In light of 
>this, would you say that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of raving "sexists" for 
>denying political participation to women???  

Well, Daniel, you gotta remember that I'm arguing from principle, and nothing else.
I'm not American, and what I may or may not think of the relative merits of Clinton
and Dole is irrelevant, from my perspective.

The short answer to your question is: yes.  If democracy is intended to create a
government based on the will of the majority of the people, and women are people, 
yes indeed, your nation's founding fathers were sexist.   

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 06:17:14 PST 1996
Article: 36215 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: ab.politics,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,ca.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,ta
Subject: Re: Bob Whitaker: causing strife through the racist agenda
Date: 19 Nov 1996 15:13:46 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     Gosh, what a shock!   Your scientific Anthropology comes to its
>100,000th consecutive Politically Correct conclusion.

I realise that telling you I don't follow your drift here (if you have
one) will merely confirm in your mind (if you have one) your belief
that your incisive thinking goes over my fluffy head.

Are you commenting on the AMS radiocarbon date on the
aribou flesher?  If so, could you explain to me how a date that
contradicts an argument for human entry into the western hemisphere
via Beringia 200,000 years ago is "Politically Correct"?  You've lost
me on this one, Bob.

If you are referring to the tentative anthropological "diagnosis",
can you explain to me how it qualifies as "Politically Correct"?

If you are referring to my skepticism until the facts are all in
on this (assuming that they ever will be), can you explain how
my unwillingness to accept a date based on poor context, in the 
absence of an absolute, geophyiscally determined age assessment is
"Politcally Correct"?  I've always thought of such caution as not
jumping to conclusions, and as a reasonable check against shoddy
science.  But you like to have your conclusions before your horse,
don't you, Bob.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 06:17:15 PST 1996
Article: 36232 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.con
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Date: 16 Nov 1996 18:50:31 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

> Everyone was starving at the end of the war
>in Germany but this doesn't "prove" the Holocaust myth.

Brian, Brian, Brian.  Photographs indicate that, at the time
the camps were liberated, prison guards were well-fed and
nowhere near starvation.  The great hunger did not set in
until after the war ended.  In the labour camps, though,
Jews and other inmates were provided with starvation rations,
rations so low in caloric and nutritional value that their
eventual death was a virtual certainty.  Read some history.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 06:17:15 PST 1996
Article: 36237 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   Finsten, after not bringing the subject up at all, since it was
>un-PC, did name the anthropologist after she was called on it by
>Forman.  

I still haven't seen Forman's post on this subject, but I do believe
you are telling lies about me again, Bob.  You've got a mighty funny
habit for someone who gets all hot under the collar when asked a simple 
question about whether you are a member of a lunatic, racist fascist 
organisation.  Given that you give every appearance here of being a
lunatic, racist fascist, it doesn't seem to me to be an ureasonable
question.  By the way, Bob, if you think I wanted to try to "bury"
this thing with the burial, do you think I would just ignore it?
Don't you think a better strategy would be to attempt to discredit
it?  And why do you accuse me of lying about not having read Frank's
post on this?  Nobody accused you of lying when you said that you
didn't know I'm Mommy Professor.  

>To our unanimous surprise, she declared he was untrustworthy,
>thereby producing the 100,000the consecutive politically Correct
>statement of Scientific Anthropoly.

Ah, so this is what you meant by that statement.  I didn't say that
he was "untrustworthy".  I did say that, given that he's made some
pretty glaring errors in the past (and I'd be happy to point you to
the references that trace the history of the particularly enormous
blunder that I mentioned), I'd prefer to see something other than
a 2 inch newspaper column, or something posted to usenet, before
expressing an opinion on the matter.  Geez, Bob, learn to read.

>	You clones must now go drom "it didn't happen" to "it didn't matter". 
>As usual.

No Bob, what I said wasn't "it isn't clear at this point what 
*did* happen".  Oops, forgot, your brain only allows two options.
Did you let Levi-Strauss do experiments on your head in the late
1960s or something? 

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:32 PST 1996
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 21:48:05 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:


>Err -- Excuse me, Mrs. Finsten, but you dribbled a little more
>ignorance on your shoe (here's a napkin).  Looks like the hoary old
>canards got the better of you again.  Citizens in Germany had the full
>right to bear arms under the NSDAP.  Hitler relaxed gun laws in
>Germany and eliminated the 1928 ban on assault rifles, lowered the
>minimum age from 20 to 18, and relaxed several other regulations as
>well.

It appears that I may have been mistaken, although I don't consider
anything coming from the sources you cite below as reputable.  So
far what I have come up with is this:

 _The Nazi Siezure of Power_ by William Sheridan
Allen, 1965. pages 174-176:

"It might have been possible for the Nazis to have created a system of
terror without giving any justifications for it, but this would have
been risky. Hence, one of the first things that was done was to
provide an excuse for various repressive measures.  Part of the
justification had already been developed--the suggestion that the
Communists and Socialists planned to overthrow the state by force.
This had been bolstered by the Reichstag fire. . . . Thalburg's Nazis
provided this by finding various arms and weapons in and around
Thalberg and by publishing these findings in the local newspapers.

"This was all the easier since there actually _were_ many weapons in
Thalburg. There were . . . the usual hunting rifles and shotguns that
one might expect to find in any town. Since hunting tended to be a
prerogative of the wealthy, such weapons were generally not found in
the homes of supporters of the KPD or SPD. Secondly, the shooting
societies of Thalberg also had arms--some very fine and expensive
weapons. But again, these belonged mainly to middle and upper class
people whom one could hardly connect with an attempt to overthrow the
state.

"But there were also weapons belonging to workers. Some veterans of
World War I brought rifles or pistols home with them, or acquired them
in the confused period following the Armistice. Others, who were
members of the *Reichbanner*, took the threat of a Nazi *Putsch*
seriously enough to gather guns and ammunition for the counter-strike.

 . . .

"Thus the Nazi police undoubtably could point to bona fide reasons
to justify their repressive methods.

[ . . .]

"Thus throughout a six-week period spanning April, Thalburgers were
given the impression that the town was a veritable arsenal. It was easy
to reach two conclusions: first, that only vigorous action by the
Nazis prevented a civil war, and second, that it was extremely
unhealthy to have any sort of weapon around the house."

I'm still looking for more on this subject/


[...]
>Here is a quote from this documented and informative treatise by Dr.
>William Pierce:

Yes, the eminent Papa Pierce with a degree in, what field is it now?

[...]

>"Jews, it should be noted, were not Germans, even if they had been
>born in Germany. The National Socialists defined citizenship in ethnic
>terms, and under Hitler Jews were not accorded full rights of
>citizenship. 

Papa Pierce is not telling the whole truth here, of course.  Laws
passed in Germany after the rise to power of the NSDAP eventually
stripped Jews who *had been* German citizens of all the rights of
citizenship.  Pierce is being evasive here.  He ought to quote some of
the Nuremberg laws.  Shall I do that for you, Bri?  Or have you read
those yourself?

>National Socialist legislation progressively excluded
>Jews from key professions: teaching, the media, the practice of law,
>etc. The aim was not only to free German life from an oppressive and
>degenerative Jewish influence, but to persuade Jews to emigrate."

[...] 

>You seem to infinitely gullible for anti-Nazi propaganda, Mrs.
>Finsten.  However, in the future I suggest you do a bit of research
>before you lazily accept at face value and then parrot the falsehoods
>and cliches which the Jewish media and your politically correct
>professors taught you. Such blind assumptions can prove embarrassing
>for you (here's some more napkins.)  Remember what they told you in
>school about the word "assume"?

pot...kettle...black????  Brian, was it your fearless leader Papa
Pierce who told you that there is a simple genetic test to identify
"non-White" people?  You might oughta take some of your own advice.

If I've made a mistake, I'll admit it.  But if you think that Pierce
is anything like an unbiased and objective source of information on
this subject (see his half-truth, above), you are a gullible one, indeed.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:33 PST 1996
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ahabiz@aol.com wrote:

>In article <848281715$7577@atype.com>, Laura Finsten 
>writes:

>>rbdwsn  wrote:


>>> Nizcor targets; ARA burns! 

>>So how come you haven't gone up in smoke, Bob?

>LOL! doggone it Sir!  I told you the giant ZOG laser on top of the Nizkor
>complex needed to have it's sights recalibrated!

Well then get to it, Adams.  The Elders aren't very good at this 
high tech stuff, you know.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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Sorry, Bri.  I thought parody was a form of humour.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>It pays to question or to look beyond simply what mommy professor or
>the media tells you about the world.  

Uh, Bri?  If you were paying attention on apw-p and apnw, you'd know
that I *am* Mommy Professor.

I don't anticipate being too shocked by discussion of the Talmud.
It's really interesting, for example, to read the deliberations
of the Catholic Church, upon the conquest of the western hemisphere,
about whether the native inhabitants were human or not.  It's also
interesting the way, not much more than a century ago, African-
Americans were only considered to 3/5 human.  Context means a lot,
Bri.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:35 PST 1996
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>Is this supposed to be an example of "White superiority"?
>>Learn to write.

>Is your comment supposed to be a declaration of "racial equality"?

No, it was an observation that individuals who rely on their
"race" for their sense of superiority to others often seem to
be pretty, well, poorly educated.

>Name me an advanced modern Negro nation then.  

Scott has explained the history relevant to understanding "first
world" and "third world" status (and development). What part of
it didn't you understand, Brian? 

>Oops.  

Indeed.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:38:00 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <848342280$11856@atype.com>
Subject: Re: nazi Resettlement Program
Lines: 18


"Hummer"  wrote:

>     I put your point on PenguinNet(tm) and got an immediate response. 
>"Your offer of live bait accepted.  Ship nazis at once so their arrival
>will coincide with the spring thaw."  Settles that from their point of
>view.


Excellent work, Hummer.  Well we had better get this transport
rolling, then, because spring is just around the corner.  Always
like those penguins, such accommodating and friendly types.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:37 PST 1996
Article: 46340 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (5ff456e7f211a9fb721d26739aa563b2)
References: <848071084$25867@atype.com> <848113384$29042@atype.com> <848167396$1193@atype.com> <848240306$4713@atype.com> <848263832$6099@atype.com> <848274527$7109@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:38:11 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Message-ID: <848342291$11871@atype.com>
Subject: Re: nazi Resettlement Program
Lines: 23


johannes@ix.netcom.com (John C. Stephens III) wrote:


>Pass this along then:  I heard a rumor that at the end of WWII, the
>Nazis escaped in flying saucers and set up a secret base in Antarctica
>(I am not making this up).  


Absolutely.  It's on Zundel's website, so it must be true, no, just
like everything else on Ernie's website.

Is it true that they were annihilated by
>the penguins, who are now using those nazi saucers to terrorise the
>world disguised as the little grey dudes?

Hmmm, now this I hadn't heard before.  I sorta like the image, though.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:38 PST 1996
Article: 46342 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (26e412b0afaf5b4e5bc752680c73f8b8)
References: <848240306$4713@atype.com> <848264618$6239@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 18:38:31 GMT
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Subject: Re: nazi Resettlement Program
Lines: 15


ahabiz@aol.com wrote:

[..]

>uh, Laura, did the documentary mention whether the nazis would have to be
>alive when they hit the water?

Hmmmm, do you think this might present serious problems?  Maybe I should
get ZOG INT/Penguins working on that.  We don't have much time.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:38 PST 1996
Article: 46375 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <848210594$3871@atype.com> <848242983$4836@atype.com> <848263798$6029@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 16:18:05 GMT
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Subject: Re: Rogue Planet Accompanying Hale-Bopp?
Lines: 14


"Hummer"  wrote:

>     Bet the JOOZ already have a newspaper on it. :-)


Shhhhh, Hummer.  You're not supposed to let on that our secret
ZOG Interstellar HQ may have been spotted....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 08:51:39 PST 1996
Article: 46429 of misc.activism.militia
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References: <848192590$2712@atype.com> <848245684$4933@atype.com>
From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 19:03:03 GMT
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Subject: Re: Question for the Nazis
Lines: 26


ahabiz@aol.com wrote:

>In article <848192590$2712@atype.com>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith)
>writes:

>>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>>>You think I was joking, Brian?

>>I said an "attempt."  I didn't say your attempt was successful.


>gee sir, I guess the brianazi doesn't understand!


Well, Adams, he doesn't seem to understand much, does he.  Glad to
see you packed your snowshoes, Adams, you're gonna need 'em.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Nov 20 09:22:06 PST 1996
Article: 49753 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 17:07:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   Finsten, after not bringing the subject up at all, since it was
>un-PC, did name the anthropologist after she was called on it by
>Forman.  

I still haven't seen Forman's post on this subject, but I do believe
you are telling lies about me again, Bob.  You've got a mighty funny
habit for someone who gets all hot under the collar when asked a simple 
question about whether you are a member of a lunatic, racist fascist 
organisation.  Given that you give every appearance here of being a
lunatic, racist fascist, it doesn't seem to me to be an ureasonable
question.  By the way, Bob, if you think I wanted to try to "bury"
this thing with the burial, do you think I would just ignore it?
Don't you think a better strategy would be to attempt to discredit
it?  And why do you accuse me of lying about not having read Frank's
post on this?  Nobody accused you of lying when you said that you
didn't know I'm Mommy Professor.  

>To our unanimous surprise, she declared he was untrustworthy,
>thereby producing the 100,000the consecutive politically Correct
>statement of Scientific Anthropoly.

Ah, so this is what you meant by that statement.  I didn't say that
he was "untrustworthy".  I did say that, given that he's made some
pretty glaring errors in the past (and I'd be happy to point you to
the references that trace the history of the particularly enormous
blunder that I mentioned), I'd prefer to see something other than
a 2 inch newspaper column, or something posted to usenet, before
expressing an opinion on the matter.  Geez, Bob, learn to read.

>	You clones must now go drom "it didn't happen" to "it didn't matter". 
>As usual.

No Bob, what I said wasn't "it isn't clear at this point what 
*did* happen".  Oops, forgot, your brain only allows two options.
Did you let Levi-Strauss do experiments on your head in the late
1960s or something? 

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 25 06:56:31 PST 1996
Article: 36332 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 21:47:21 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56vu99$dma@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com> <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32932FC7.14AB@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   This is one of the clones who shrieks foul over and over when I say
>they routinely accuse anyone who disagrees of being A Nazi Who Wants To
>Kill Six Million Jews.

Perhaps you could try a valium, Bob, if the lithium isn't working.

>	Finsten kept insisting she knew all socialists are not communists, all
>racists are not nazis, the means of dictatorwhip is the biug
>difference.  Now I'm a raciwst fascist, ie, a Nazi, and her wild
>protestants ("You're LYING about me!") are down the old Politically
>Correct Memory Hole
>	PC Doublethink, as usual.

Are you claiming that the National Alliance is not a fascist organisation
with a racist political agenda, Bob?

[...]
>    PC has thousands of people like yo to come up with plusible attacks
>on all opposition.   All tyrannies do.  It is your absolutely perfect
>record of PC consistency that discredits you.

So you are calling me a liar.  Well, Bob, you're wrong.  As I said, I've
heard very little about the case in question.  I was unaware that a judge
had agreed that the bones should be reburied.  You want to know how PC I
am on the general subject of repatriation and reburial of skeletal remains,
Bob?  Except where direct lineal ancestry can be determined, I am 
against it.  But I imagine you'll call me a liar about this too.  As if
you have any way of knowing.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 25 06:56:32 PST 1996
Article: 36607 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:41:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <575a5v$6v0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com> <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32932FC7.14AB@conterra.com> <56vu99$dma@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32949B06.3C50@conterra.com> <572t6r$16k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3295D7F5.6A17@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	You can jargon yourself blue, but the simple fact is that in every case
>you always come down on  the Poltiically Correct side in every
>discussion.   Your pattern is in perfect accord with your training.

And in your mind, Bob, the "right" thing to do is to offer an opinion
before you have any facts???

>	That's pitiful.

That is indeed pitiful.  But it does seem to be your stock in trade.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 25 07:02:41 PST 1996
Article: 49847 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 21:47:21 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56vu99$dma@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com> <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32932FC7.14AB@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   This is one of the clones who shrieks foul over and over when I say
>they routinely accuse anyone who disagrees of being A Nazi Who Wants To
>Kill Six Million Jews.

Perhaps you could try a valium, Bob, if the lithium isn't working.

>	Finsten kept insisting she knew all socialists are not communists, all
>racists are not nazis, the means of dictatorwhip is the biug
>difference.  Now I'm a raciwst fascist, ie, a Nazi, and her wild
>protestants ("You're LYING about me!") are down the old Politically
>Correct Memory Hole
>	PC Doublethink, as usual.

Are you claiming that the National Alliance is not a fascist organisation
with a racist political agenda, Bob?

[...]
>    PC has thousands of people like yo to come up with plusible attacks
>on all opposition.   All tyrannies do.  It is your absolutely perfect
>record of PC consistency that discredits you.

So you are calling me a liar.  Well, Bob, you're wrong.  As I said, I've
heard very little about the case in question.  I was unaware that a judge
had agreed that the bones should be reburied.  You want to know how PC I
am on the general subject of repatriation and reburial of skeletal remains,
Bob?  Except where direct lineal ancestry can be determined, I am 
against it.  But I imagine you'll call me a liar about this too.  As if
you have any way of knowing.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Nov 25 07:02:42 PST 1996
Article: 50085 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:41:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <575a5v$6v0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com> <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32932FC7.14AB@conterra.com> <56vu99$dma@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32949B06.3C50@conterra.com> <572t6r$16k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3295D7F5.6A17@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	You can jargon yourself blue, but the simple fact is that in every case
>you always come down on  the Poltiically Correct side in every
>discussion.   Your pattern is in perfect accord with your training.

And in your mind, Bob, the "right" thing to do is to offer an opinion
before you have any facts???

>	That's pitiful.

That is indeed pitiful.  But it does seem to be your stock in trade.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:19 PST 1996
Article: 46489 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:33:20 GMT
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militia-request@atype.com wrote:

[...]

>I note that there have been, in recent weeks, new posters to
>misc.activism.militia who have also only posted about racial topics, but have
>done so on the opposite side of the ideological fence than the banished
>individuals, but I do not recall having read a post suggesting that _they_
>move such speech to a different newsgroup.  Perhaps this is because they
>blended in with the regulars.  Perhaps such posts were not disruptive enough
>to notice.  But, perhaps, it was because most participants of m.a.m weren't
>concerned, as long such posters were "on their side".


This will be my last post in this newsgroup.  As one of the people you are
presumably referring to here, I thought I would offer an opinion, based on
a little experience.  First, I think that you are wrong that the NA would 
have left had no one challenged them.  Note the desperate last-gasp attempts 
to plaster more of their NA propaganda in their waning hours.  They and other 
extremist groups have, in the past, "invaded" other newsgroups and utterly 
destroyed them by making topical discussion a near impossibility.

Second, I sincerely believe that it is a grave error to assume that these
folks are best ignored, rather than confronted.  Refusal to refute is often
read as tacit approval, both by those doing the propagandising and by third
party observers.  This cannot be allowed to happen.

Bye, folks.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:21 PST 1996
Article: 46523 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 13:33:04 GMT
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Subject: Re: "Backwoods" Mike Vanderboegh: LIAR, HYPOCRITE,INADEQUATE FOOL
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Daniel Kuehne  wrote:

>Laura Finsten wrote:

>> It's also
>> interesting the way, not much more than a century ago, African-
>> Americans were only considered to 3/5 human.  

>Actually, Laura, the thing about blacks (sorry for not using a politically-correct term 
>here, but "African-Americans" is far too cumbersome) being considered only "3/5 human" 
>is a liberal myth. First off, it only applied to black *slaves*. Secondly, as you know, 
>the Constitutional debate involved a compromise between the northern and southern states 
>regarding representation in the House of Representatives. It had absolutely NOTHING to 
>do with anybody considering slaves to be only "3/5 human." But, I must say, thank you 
>much for pointing out this *excellent* example of liberal historical revisionism.  

Well, you know, not being American, and having somehow gotten this far in life without
every studying American history, I can concede the error.

However, the error, if indeed it is one, is trivial next the implications of slavery
for those enslaved.  They had none of the rights of citizens, but instead were
treated much like domesticated animals.  So whether there was a formula or not, they
clearly were not considered to be "human" in any meaningful sense of the term.  And
one can see that the legacy of this ideology, whether it was ever explicitly expressed
arithmetically, lives on in the minds of many Americans. 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:22 PST 1996
Article: 46549 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 21:18:51 GMT
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Subject: Re: Black Resettlement Program
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>Mrs. Finsten first denied she was a Jew, then she claimed she has
>suffered anti-Semitism.  I wish she'd make up her mind.

Uh, Brian, if someone who is antisemitic *thinks* that I am Jewish,
even though I am not, then I may be the object of antisemitic acts
or speech, no?  Or is it not antisemitic to send someone an anonymous
email that reads something like "die nigger-loving canadian jew whore",
just because the sender is mistaken in their belief that the lucky
recipient is Jewish?  Or is this too complicated for your tiny mind,
Brian?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:23 PST 1996
Article: 46627 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:03:04 GMT
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Subject: Re: National Socialist/NAZI/National Appliance/Aryans
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mckinney@usaor.net (Ian McKinney) wrote:

>In message <848278083$7391@atype.com> - sgriff@apci.net writes:

>:>Of course they didn't; all they did was deny Jews citizenship and then deny 
>:>non-citizens the right to arms. It didn't matter that some of these now 
>:>"non-citizens" had been living in the country for decades, and had been 
>:>considered citizens by the previous government.

>So what? You seem to think that if a previous law granted citizenship to 
>aliens, then that makes it forever impossible to rescind that law. The fact 
>that the Jews were foreigners is not doubted, on the other hand, the Germans 
>were obviously the legal owners of that area by the natural right of 
>occupation and their ability to defend it, and also had, not to mention, the 
>right to decide who can live in their country. Besides, removing the Jew's 
>citizenship was done legally and by popular consent.

>It was Germany's business and no one elses. 

But that you think this kind of practice is acceptable is everyone's business,
Ian.  How do you define an "alien"?  In fact, most of the Jews who were
disenfranchised by the Nuremberg Laws were native-born Germans.  Many belonged
to families that had lived on German soil for probably at least as many
generations as yours has lived on American soil.  What this demonstrates
is the capricious and arbitrary nature of the NSDAP regime and wannabe
fascist organisations like the National Alliance.  No one is safe when
the principles which underlie something as basic as citizenship can be 
redefined on a whim, antisemitic or otherwise.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:24 PST 1996
Article: 46646 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:18:04 GMT
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Subject: Re: brianazi *almost* gets one right
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You're getting your T's mixed up, Brian.  The holiest Jewish text
is the Torah.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:25 PST 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:03:20 GMT
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>>They had none of the rights of citizens, but instead were
>>treated much like domesticated animals.  So whether there was a formula or not, they
>>clearly were not considered to be "human" in any meaningful sense of the term.  And
>>one can see that the legacy of this ideology, whether it was ever explicitly expressed
>>arithmetically, lives on in the minds of many Americans. 

>Please provide proof that African slavery, which was actually made
>possible only through Negroes capturing and enslaving other Negroes
>and selling them into slavery, still "lives on in the minds of many
>Americans."   

Duh, Brian, I didn't say that "slavery lives on in the minds of many
Americans".  I was saying that the ideology of fundamental racial
inequality that both permitted and grew out of slavery still lives
on in the minds of many Americans.  Proof?  You're proof of that, Brian.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:06:25 PST 1996
Article: 46839 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:03:13 GMT
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medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S. Medintz) wrote:

>Whilst completely naked, allenpete@aol.com said unto us:

>>You know sheldon too?He brings all the Vienna red hots and Mogen David to
>>our meetings. Nice boy.

>Never mind that the Canadians don't know the first thing about decent
>Mexican food. Not like my old buddies in El Pilsener, anyway.

Hey!  Not fair!  I actually know how to make mole!  Just cuz we have a
hard time growing habanero peppers up here doesn't mean some of us, at
least, don't appreciate the finer things in life.

(Thanks for the recipe, by the way.  If I can get a crop to mature next
year, I'll give it a try.)



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:24 PST 1996
Article: 55935 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 12 Nov 1996 14:43:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <56a2ed$smt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com> <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <566rr3$im2@lex.zippo.com>
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Ourobouros wrote:
>In article <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura says...


>Is this the post to which you are referring?

No, this isn't it, Twinkletoes.

[...]

>I would recommend
>
>Pat Shipman  1994  "The Evolution of Racism". Simon and Schuster.
>Jonathon Marks  1995  "Human Biodiversity: Genes, Race and History",
>     Aldine de Gruyter, especially Chapter 4 The History of Biology
>     and the Biology of History.
>And maybe Marek Kohn 1996  "The Race Gallery: The Return of Racial
>     Science". Vintage Books.  (I've just begun to read this.)


>While I cannot vouch for either Shipman or Kohn I do know that Marks, in
>the aforementioned book, is totally opposed to racialism.
>
>If this is the post to which you refer then what you stated above is 
>rubbish.

It isn't.  This was a response to a question from Jamie McCarthy.
If you'd followed the thread back you would have seen that.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:25 PST 1996
Article: 55953 of alt.discrimination
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 13 Nov 1996 17:25:43 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:

[...]

>    I never accused you of "bragging" about your PhD.

Well Mr. Whit, since I've never put those letters behind my name, or a Dr.
in front of it in 10 months of posting here, why would I start now?
I have never referred to my degrees here, period.  You have always said
that degrees themselves are irrelevant.  I agree with you on that point,
and I think the fact that I haven't made an issue of them indicates that.
You are the one who is now making an issue of my doctorate.  Why are you
doing that, Mr. Whitaker?
  
>    I never trotted out my degrees.  As you well know, I made fun of a
>guy who had PhD after his name, and your crowd got terribly upset at the
>very concept i would have such a thing.

What I recall is that someone flamed you for your lousy writing while you
were ridiculing another poster for that.  Your response made it very clear
that you have a PhD, too.  I don't recall anybody being upset about that.
I do remember you becoming very upset when I called you "Dr. Whitaker" in
the next post addressed to you, though.

>     I've made the latter point every time you people have said this,
>but of course I'll have to repeat it for each of you.

All kinds of wingnuts have PhDs, Mr. Whitaker.  You're living proof of
that.

Sincerely,
Mommy Professor

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:26 PST 1996
Article: 55978 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 13:48:47 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <56f7vv$q4r@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    You got it backwards, of course.  You live in a world where PhD's
>are the priests to the superstitious PC peasants, so you're trying to be
>modest about it.

*Trying* to be modest about it?  Out of one corner of your mouth you accuse
me of intentionally hiding something, while from the other slithers this
nonsensical accusation.  If I wished to dupe the "superstitious PC peasants"
with my credentials as a high priestess of knowledge and wisdom, I would
hardly have chosen *not* to flout them, would I, Mr. Whit.  Whatever 
happened to your brain, Bob?  You can't think logically any more.

>     I guess this is the first time you've ever dealt with somebody who
>is truly not only not impressed, but quite the opposite.  

The only people I know who are impressed are my parents and siblings.

>I was offended
>that you get paid full time to push this Politically Coorect crap and
>didn't admit it up front.

You are a hypocrite of the first order.  Had I attached PhD to my surname,
you would have ragged on about that and nothing else.  That is what you
have done to those people who have been "up front" in these newsgroups.

I have not *hidden* the fact that I am an anthropologist.  In fact I
mentioned it during the first month I posted here, and for months after
was the object of snide comments about my "appeal to authority".  Had
anyone asked me about my academic degrees, I would have told them.  No
one did.  A number of people here who know me personally, or have 
communicated with me privately, knew.  Others have figured it out by
following the newsgroup.  That you didn't merely shows how unperceptive
you are.  Sounds to me like you're just pissed because we got a good
laugh over your "Mommy Professor" rant, thanks to Bill Anderson's
delightful sense of humour.

One last thing, Bob - you know *nothing*, in fact, about what I am paid
full-time to do.  You know *nothing* about the topical areas in which
I teach and do research.  If you want to make accusations about "pushing
PC crap for a living", I suggest you do a little homework first.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:26 PST 1996
Article: 56018 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 21:02:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <56g1d6$fq6@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <53cbse$q6q@clarknet.clark.net>  <54fpph$a9m@pelican.unf.edu> <54h6ls$g5j@clarknet.clark.net> <553ake$2nl@pelican.unf.edu> <32764E94.5430@conterra.com> <557n26$fko@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3277A1ED.7484@conterra.com> <559691$pq0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328566C9.6109@conterra.com> <565ba7$f6c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328780CE.76B6@conterra.com> <56agpe$al9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <328AABF7.A79@akamail.com>
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rdunsheath@akamail.com wrote:

[...]

>Why don't you download an update of Netscape?  You are using
>V 1.1 aren't you?  Version 3.01 is now out.
>Free Agent is also good for reading news[...]

I like my software just fine, thanks.

>Hell, you keep me busy just skipping over all your posts.

Perhaps you should try something with killfile capabilities.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:27 PST 1996
Article: 56089 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 13:05:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
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marshall@haverford.edu (Pete Marshall) wrote:

[...]

>One thing you're clearly NOT being "paid to do" is to respond
>on-topic.  Or, you're doing your job very poorly.  Why not take your
>personal slurs to a private forum?

Pete, have you followed this thread?  I agree with you that my education
and what I do for a living are irrelevant.  I'm not the one who is
making an issue of this.  So why aren't you on the case of the person
who is?  



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:28 PST 1996
Article: 56199 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration
Subject: Re: blood sucking Brian Smith
Date: 16 Nov 1996 16:20:33 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56kpkh$ocg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <559mqr$a5e@is05.micron.net> <55f3fa$pqr@keelung.transend.com.tw> <55gccm$oa0@is05.micron.net>  <55qrfc$9l5@is05.micron.net> <55rksc$696@orion.cybercom.net> <55u2ku$ggu@is05.micron.net> <96314.144654CSKBB@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> <5639gt$aho@is05.micron.net> <56ehle$2ll@reader.seed.net.tw> <56iea4$ipk@opera.iinet.net.au>
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reverend@iinet.net.au (AgamemnoN) wrote:

>The only thing different between Brian Smith and Jim Walsh is that
>Brian Smith has the ability to QUESTION and Jimbo has has the ability
>to CONSUME!!!

>It is quite and absolutely irrelevant whether All Brian's facts are
>100% correct, but by his true nature, he willl constantly revise these
>facts untill a finite conclusion is obtained. If presented with
>another revised factsheet of statistics he will no doubt honestly
>present these.

I've been following a discussion between "Brian Smith" and an
Africanist archaeologist over on misc.activism.militia.  Among
other things, they've been talking about African colonial history
and prehistory.  The Africanist has been doing research in Africa
for, oh I'm not sure, 10 or 15 year.  Discovering new facts, in
other words.  He is also extremely knowledgeable about African
history and, because he has spent so much time living Africa while
he does his research there, has considerable first-hand experience
of African people, and contemporary African societies and culture.

It is pretty obvious, though, that Brian's brain, if he has one,
is closed shut as tight as a rusted steel trap.  He knows nothing
about African history or Africans except what he has read in 
racist propaganda rags.  And he clearly isn't interested in learning.
He doesn't argue positions, he denies their veracity based on
nothing more than his scant "knowledge" and prejudices.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:29 PST 1996
Article: 56423 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 19 Nov 1996 17:07:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   Finsten, after not bringing the subject up at all, since it was
>un-PC, did name the anthropologist after she was called on it by
>Forman.  

I still haven't seen Forman's post on this subject, but I do believe
you are telling lies about me again, Bob.  You've got a mighty funny
habit for someone who gets all hot under the collar when asked a simple 
question about whether you are a member of a lunatic, racist fascist 
organisation.  Given that you give every appearance here of being a
lunatic, racist fascist, it doesn't seem to me to be an ureasonable
question.  By the way, Bob, if you think I wanted to try to "bury"
this thing with the burial, do you think I would just ignore it?
Don't you think a better strategy would be to attempt to discredit
it?  And why do you accuse me of lying about not having read Frank's
post on this?  Nobody accused you of lying when you said that you
didn't know I'm Mommy Professor.  

>To our unanimous surprise, she declared he was untrustworthy,
>thereby producing the 100,000the consecutive politically Correct
>statement of Scientific Anthropoly.

Ah, so this is what you meant by that statement.  I didn't say that
he was "untrustworthy".  I did say that, given that he's made some
pretty glaring errors in the past (and I'd be happy to point you to
the references that trace the history of the particularly enormous
blunder that I mentioned), I'd prefer to see something other than
a 2 inch newspaper column, or something posted to usenet, before
expressing an opinion on the matter.  Geez, Bob, learn to read.

>	You clones must now go drom "it didn't happen" to "it didn't matter". 
>As usual.

No Bob, what I said wasn't "it isn't clear at this point what 
*did* happen".  Oops, forgot, your brain only allows two options.
Did you let Levi-Strauss do experiments on your head in the late
1960s or something? 

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:30 PST 1996
Article: 56508 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 21:47:21 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56vu99$dma@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com> <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32932FC7.14AB@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   This is one of the clones who shrieks foul over and over when I say
>they routinely accuse anyone who disagrees of being A Nazi Who Wants To
>Kill Six Million Jews.

Perhaps you could try a valium, Bob, if the lithium isn't working.

>	Finsten kept insisting she knew all socialists are not communists, all
>racists are not nazis, the means of dictatorwhip is the biug
>difference.  Now I'm a raciwst fascist, ie, a Nazi, and her wild
>protestants ("You're LYING about me!") are down the old Politically
>Correct Memory Hole
>	PC Doublethink, as usual.

Are you claiming that the National Alliance is not a fascist organisation
with a racist political agenda, Bob?

[...]
>    PC has thousands of people like yo to come up with plusible attacks
>on all opposition.   All tyrannies do.  It is your absolutely perfect
>record of PC consistency that discredits you.

So you are calling me a liar.  Well, Bob, you're wrong.  As I said, I've
heard very little about the case in question.  I was unaware that a judge
had agreed that the bones should be reburied.  You want to know how PC I
am on the general subject of repatriation and reburial of skeletal remains,
Bob?  Except where direct lineal ancestry can be determined, I am 
against it.  But I imagine you'll call me a liar about this too.  As if
you have any way of knowing.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:31 PST 1996
Article: 56691 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:41:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <575a5v$6v0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <52481j$j37@clarknet.clark.net> <3284C5CF.240D@conterra.com> <56a4ng$26m@informer1.cis.McMaste <56gfil$oak@informer1.cis.mcmaster.ca> <56ndnm$1jg@clarknet.clark.net> <328F778F.7542@conterra.com> <01bbd519$72107340$30315bcc@noskoware.com> <3291C593.42D2@conterra.com> <56spgm$hbq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32932FC7.14AB@conterra.com> <56vu99$dma@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <32949B06.3C50@conterra.com> <572t6r$16k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <3295D7F5.6A17@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	You can jargon yourself blue, but the simple fact is that in every case
>you always come down on  the Poltiically Correct side in every
>discussion.   Your pattern is in perfect accord with your training.

And in your mind, Bob, the "right" thing to do is to offer an opinion
before you have any facts???

>	That's pitiful.

That is indeed pitiful.  But it does seem to be your stock in trade.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Nov 26 07:44:32 PST 1996
Article: 56979 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: What does Brian Smith want that is different from what Hitler wanted?
Date: 25 Nov 1996 20:03:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <57cu37$h2n@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <56jglf$6o@is05.micron.net> <5721qg$7om@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <01bbda88$6dfe2440$4c75d6ce@default>
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"Richard A. Hernandez"  wrote:

[...]

>Grrrrreat!!! I'm glad you feel that way Philip! You can start by dropping
>out of Northeastern University,
>and donate all the monies ( your allowance included ) that would have gone
>into such a wasteful bourgeois pursuit as an higher education, and donate
>it all to the relief effort in Rwanda. Do it Philip! Unless you're a
>hypocitical, spinless twitt like every other liberal ( communist ) I've had
>the misfortune to
>meet.

Is that how the world shakes down for you, Richard?  Communists and racists?
Cute.  Sure simplifies matters, doesn't it.


>( Head Nazi in Charge, Antartic UFO Division )

Have you created your own continent, or is this Zundel's Antarctica UFO
project?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:01:44 PST 1996
Article: 82193 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.death,alt.thrash,alt.music.jewish,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.music.underground.metal.black,alt.music.underground.metal.death,alt.music.underground.metal,alt.music.grindcore,alt.music.hardcore,alt
Subject: Re: hardcore rap band sentenced to jail  !!!!
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:09:07 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>> Nope.  Shall we go on to discuss how Rushton uses hat sizes (helmet sizes,
>> actually) as a measure of IQ?


>Certainly.  That makes rather obvious sense.
>But to cut to the chase, what does he say about race that gets PC's
>screaming about obscenity?  It's sure not obscenity.

There are some serious problems with using hat size to measure IQ,
Bob.  Why don't you read his book and then we can discuss it?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:01:45 PST 1996
Article: 82276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking Brian Smith
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:47:09 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <57evtd$ft7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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thebok@dreamon.com wrote:
>On 25 Nov 1996 01:59:14 GMT, Laura Finsten 
>wrote:

>>It is all refuted at http://www.nizkor.org


> Excuse me Laura, but personal attacks and questions of personal
>character are not a refutation. An example of this is the handling of
>Fred Leutcher. As I read the "refutation" of the Leutcher Report, it
>was immediately apparent that the forensic evidence was not on trial,
>but Fred Leutcher himself. 

Clearly Leuchter's qualifications to have undertaken the "study" he
did are germane, as is his (dis)honesty in publicly representing his
qualifications in the field in which he claims expertise.  I would
suggest that the latter is particularly pertinent since misrepresentation
here, which has clearly been demonstrated, calls into question his
intellectual honesty more generally.

Your characterisation of the Nizkor refutation of the Leuchter report
itself seems somewhat lacking in intellectual honesty, Mr. Bok.  Or
is the Mr. Thebok?  It is indeed true that there is a section setting
the record straight on Leuchter's "qualifications" as a scientist with
considerable "experience" in gas chamber technology.  But this is only
a small part of the refutation, which interested readers can refer
themselves at:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/faqs/leuchter/index.html

>Just is the case with David Irving. 

I had rather gathered that Irving's critics pointed to his lack of
training in historiography to offer him a graceful escape from what
otherwise appears to be clearly dishonest use and representation of
primary source material.

> As a self taught man in many areas of science, I earn a living by my
>knowledge. I could have gone back to collage to complete my studies in
>certain areas, but I have found that the methods and techniques of a
>skill are often learned by trial and error. This is the one great
>attack used against Mr. Irving and the 37 (?) books he has written ove
>the last 20 years. Though I can produce press clippings and reviews
>which praise his work, Nizkor bases its entire attack on David Irving
>on the fact that he never got a degree in history. 

This is not true.

> Basically, Nizkor has an agenda which is to slander those who they do
>not agree with. One only need to attempt discussion with Nizi types
>online to see that this "standard" of argumentative adhominem is a
>consistant strain in all of Nizkor related posts and arguments.

Nor is this true.  "Slander" could be accomplished with far less disk
space than the Nizkor website occupies.  Your example here shows that
it only takes a couple of sentences.

> Generally, those who have encountered Nizkor are left with a similar
>conviction. Nizkor is without respect and is nothing more than a front
>for a Synagogue in Victoria, B.C.. 

This is also untrue, but it is another good example of slander.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:22:55 PST 1996
Article: 37058 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 17:33:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	Once again, I know a Poltiically Correct person would never even
>imagine asking why "Scientific Anthropology" is ALWAYS perfectly
>Politically Correct.  I gave the example of Boas emovement from a kook
>to a saint in the 1930-1945 period.

You asserted this, but you have not given a shred of evidence to
demonstrate that it is true.  Boas was widely respected in scientific
and anthropological circles long before he died.  This is evident
in his publications and lectures before respected bodies such as
the American Academy of Science in the late 19th and early 20th
century.  Get your facts straight, Bob.

>	I am bringing this up for thought by people who can think, not PC
>clones.
>	Anthropology is a whore.

Is this your assessment of Hans Günther's work?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:22:56 PST 1996
Article: 37108 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: blood sucking BRIAN SMITH and other subhuman garbage
Date: 26 Nov 1996 15:42:05 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
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References:  <569v3d$h9v@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> <3288CE4E.3EF5@conterra.com> <56fsmi$bnr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329393DF.28A5@conterra.com> <571s9v$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A2018.29C1@conterra.com> <57dgnn$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A841A.51FA@conterra.com>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:

[...]

>> You don't get it, do you Bob?  I see from another thread that you think
>> that Jews are just people with all the bad and nasty stuff left in.
>> So you're an antisemite, Bob.  Why am I not surprised.

>	You're not that illiterate, so that's a straight lie, Finsten.  I said
>that anti-semites think of Jews as devils, PC's think of Jews as angels
>incapable of guilt, and I think of Jews as humans, with the nastiness
>and vengefulness of humans left in.
>	That was all in the paragraph you read, so there is no question of
>amistaker.  That was a straight lie, and a damned serious accusation
>based on a purposeful ie.


If I mischaracterised what you said in the other thread, then I apologise.
I can't seem to find it, but I'll keep looking.

posted/emailed


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:22:56 PST 1996
Article: 37120 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: blood sucking BRIAN SMITH and BOB WHITAKER
Date: 26 Nov 1996 16:45:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

[...]

>>Ah Bri, you're papering over the real history of this, but I'm hardly
>>surprised, seeing what you like to do with the history of the Holocaust.

>I see discrediting my views on the fake Holocaust is what you're
>really after in this post.  

Not at all, Brian.  All of your lies are worthy of being pointed out.

>>In fact, banning you NA folks was *first* discussed by Arlin Adams and
>>Steve Sybesma, two regular posters on the newsgroup and two CM leaders.
>>Sheldon Sheps actually introduced the proposal, but the support for
>>it came virtually entirely from regular posters on the newsgrou.

>Mrs. Finsten, nothing I wrote contradicts what you wrote here.  You
>should read more carefully.   I said Sheps "initiated" the vote in
>reference to his proposal to initiate voting.

Well Brian, I just didn't want people to be left with the erroneous
impression that Sheldon Sheps engineered the ban in misc.activism.
militia, because as you and I both know, that isn't true.  He
submitted the ban proposal after it was initially discussed by 
regular militia posters.  It was then endorsed by more than the
minimum required eight regular posters, which was what was needed
for the vote to proceed.  

[...]

>Several White nationalists chose not to participate so as not to
>legitimize a vote to censor differing viewpoints from the internet.
>I would think you'd know that.  For example, "Cutter001" whom you
>argued with extensively, did not participate in the vote.

I believe I had all of two exchanges with Mr. 001.  He didn't come
out of either of them looking too good, either.

The result still was overwhelmingly in favour of the ban, Brian.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:22:57 PST 1996
Article: 37137 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking Brian Smith
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:47:09 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <57evtd$ft7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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thebok@dreamon.com wrote:
>On 25 Nov 1996 01:59:14 GMT, Laura Finsten 
>wrote:

>>It is all refuted at http://www.nizkor.org


> Excuse me Laura, but personal attacks and questions of personal
>character are not a refutation. An example of this is the handling of
>Fred Leutcher. As I read the "refutation" of the Leutcher Report, it
>was immediately apparent that the forensic evidence was not on trial,
>but Fred Leutcher himself. 

Clearly Leuchter's qualifications to have undertaken the "study" he
did are germane, as is his (dis)honesty in publicly representing his
qualifications in the field in which he claims expertise.  I would
suggest that the latter is particularly pertinent since misrepresentation
here, which has clearly been demonstrated, calls into question his
intellectual honesty more generally.

Your characterisation of the Nizkor refutation of the Leuchter report
itself seems somewhat lacking in intellectual honesty, Mr. Bok.  Or
is the Mr. Thebok?  It is indeed true that there is a section setting
the record straight on Leuchter's "qualifications" as a scientist with
considerable "experience" in gas chamber technology.  But this is only
a small part of the refutation, which interested readers can refer
themselves at:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/faqs/leuchter/index.html

>Just is the case with David Irving. 

I had rather gathered that Irving's critics pointed to his lack of
training in historiography to offer him a graceful escape from what
otherwise appears to be clearly dishonest use and representation of
primary source material.

> As a self taught man in many areas of science, I earn a living by my
>knowledge. I could have gone back to collage to complete my studies in
>certain areas, but I have found that the methods and techniques of a
>skill are often learned by trial and error. This is the one great
>attack used against Mr. Irving and the 37 (?) books he has written ove
>the last 20 years. Though I can produce press clippings and reviews
>which praise his work, Nizkor bases its entire attack on David Irving
>on the fact that he never got a degree in history. 

This is not true.

> Basically, Nizkor has an agenda which is to slander those who they do
>not agree with. One only need to attempt discussion with Nizi types
>online to see that this "standard" of argumentative adhominem is a
>consistant strain in all of Nizkor related posts and arguments.

Nor is this true.  "Slander" could be accomplished with far less disk
space than the Nizkor website occupies.  Your example here shows that
it only takes a couple of sentences.

> Generally, those who have encountered Nizkor are left with a similar
>conviction. Nizkor is without respect and is nothing more than a front
>for a Synagogue in Victoria, B.C.. 

This is also untrue, but it is another good example of slander.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:22:59 PST 1996
Article: 37180 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!news1.bellglobal.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!cunews!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: ab.politics,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,ca.politics,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Are There Races?  (Was: Re: Bob Whitaker: causing strife through the racist agenda)
Date: 27 Nov 1996 21:03:31 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <57iab3$dhc@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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pendragn@cyberg8t.com (Arthur Ed LeBouthillier) wrote:
>On 26 Nov 1996 17:43:05 GMT, pkasieck@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Philip
>Kasiecki) wrote:

[...]

>Underlying this "social construction" is a real, positive and
>observable phenomenon: blood relations. The social construction,
>or understanding of these relations is what is known as race. Race
>is based on a real feature: blood relations.

So you are claiming that "blood relations" are "real", rather than
a social construction, Art?

[...]

>>    Bullshit.  What "plain science" are you talking about?

>Blood relations.

I doubt you are talking about hematology.  Do you mean genetics?
Or are you referring to the "plain [real] science" of genealogy?

[...]

>Right, but "historical exclusion and discrimination" are rights.
>Discrimination is a right. Second, whether such "historical exclusion
>and discrimination" occurred has no bearing on my rights ( and the
>attempts of people like you to deny them).

But didn't you say somewhere around here that rights are also
social constructions, Art?  If this is true, as you seem to have
stated elsewhere, then in fact you are wrong.  The society in which
you live has decided otherwise.  You do not have the right to
discriminate on the grounds upon which you would like to do so.

Oh yes, here it is.  It's current in the newsgroup right now.  In
fact it is another strand in this very same thread!  I'll just excise
a little bit of it to make my point:

**********************

pendragn@cyberg8t.com (Arthur Ed LeBouthillier) wrote:

[deleted for brevity...LF]
>What's your point? Rights are a social construction; do you
>advocate that we ignore those also?
>
>14 Words,
>Art LeBouthillier

**********************

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:22:59 PST 1996
Article: 37209 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 20:30:46 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <57i8dm$c7r@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	If I understand correctly, Gunther was writing when his views were
>Politically Correct.  I think, for example ,that the antrolpologist sof
>Nazi Germany and Stalin's Lysonckoists were percect examples of the
>whore you call Scientific Anthropolgy.
>	You simply cannot be scientific and at the same time unfailingly come
>down on the side of the establishment of your time.

Would you care to point that out to Brian Smith when he tells people
who want to know how to define the "White race" to refer to Günther?

And even better question, though is this:  So what *is* the "reality"
of human variation that you found your politics on, and how do you know
it is real?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:23:00 PST 1996
Article: 37211 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Brian is caught in another stupid lie.
Date: 27 Nov 1996 22:17:00 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57ieks$fe5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <57885a$hoh@is05.micron.net> <57bl3f$c2u@keelung.transend.com.tw> <57cmrg$g1v@is05.micron.net>  <57g5qc$6so@is05.micron.net>
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>kate@accessone.com (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:


[...]

>>"White nationalists themselves will decide who is and who isn't White for
>>these purposes."  Sound exactly like what Hitler did when deciding who was
>>and who was not Jewish.  Like Edith Stein, for example.  Edith Stein was
>>born Jewish, converted to Catholocism, became a nun, was a brilliant
>>philosopher who combined the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle
>>and Edmund Husserl into her own unique philosophy, and was promptly
>>rounded up by Hitler and gassed in Auscwitz in 1944 because she was once
>>Jewish.   

>Considering that gassing is a hoax I find your story most peculiar.

So what do you think became of Edith Stein, Bri?  Do you think she's
hiding in someone's basement in order to perpetuate the "hoax"?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:35:20 PST 1996
Article: 50507 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 17:33:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	Once again, I know a Poltiically Correct person would never even
>imagine asking why "Scientific Anthropology" is ALWAYS perfectly
>Politically Correct.  I gave the example of Boas emovement from a kook
>to a saint in the 1930-1945 period.

You asserted this, but you have not given a shred of evidence to
demonstrate that it is true.  Boas was widely respected in scientific
and anthropological circles long before he died.  This is evident
in his publications and lectures before respected bodies such as
the American Academy of Science in the late 19th and early 20th
century.  Get your facts straight, Bob.

>	I am bringing this up for thought by people who can think, not PC
>clones.
>	Anthropology is a whore.

Is this your assessment of Hans Günther's work?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:35:21 PST 1996
Article: 50581 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking Brian Smith
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:47:09 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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thebok@dreamon.com wrote:
>On 25 Nov 1996 01:59:14 GMT, Laura Finsten 
>wrote:

>>It is all refuted at http://www.nizkor.org


> Excuse me Laura, but personal attacks and questions of personal
>character are not a refutation. An example of this is the handling of
>Fred Leutcher. As I read the "refutation" of the Leutcher Report, it
>was immediately apparent that the forensic evidence was not on trial,
>but Fred Leutcher himself. 

Clearly Leuchter's qualifications to have undertaken the "study" he
did are germane, as is his (dis)honesty in publicly representing his
qualifications in the field in which he claims expertise.  I would
suggest that the latter is particularly pertinent since misrepresentation
here, which has clearly been demonstrated, calls into question his
intellectual honesty more generally.

Your characterisation of the Nizkor refutation of the Leuchter report
itself seems somewhat lacking in intellectual honesty, Mr. Bok.  Or
is the Mr. Thebok?  It is indeed true that there is a section setting
the record straight on Leuchter's "qualifications" as a scientist with
considerable "experience" in gas chamber technology.  But this is only
a small part of the refutation, which interested readers can refer
themselves at:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/faqs/leuchter/index.html

>Just is the case with David Irving. 

I had rather gathered that Irving's critics pointed to his lack of
training in historiography to offer him a graceful escape from what
otherwise appears to be clearly dishonest use and representation of
primary source material.

> As a self taught man in many areas of science, I earn a living by my
>knowledge. I could have gone back to collage to complete my studies in
>certain areas, but I have found that the methods and techniques of a
>skill are often learned by trial and error. This is the one great
>attack used against Mr. Irving and the 37 (?) books he has written ove
>the last 20 years. Though I can produce press clippings and reviews
>which praise his work, Nizkor bases its entire attack on David Irving
>on the fact that he never got a degree in history. 

This is not true.

> Basically, Nizkor has an agenda which is to slander those who they do
>not agree with. One only need to attempt discussion with Nizi types
>online to see that this "standard" of argumentative adhominem is a
>consistant strain in all of Nizkor related posts and arguments.

Nor is this true.  "Slander" could be accomplished with far less disk
space than the Nizkor website occupies.  Your example here shows that
it only takes a couple of sentences.

> Generally, those who have encountered Nizkor are left with a similar
>conviction. Nizkor is without respect and is nothing more than a front
>for a Synagogue in Victoria, B.C.. 

This is also untrue, but it is another good example of slander.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:35:22 PST 1996
Article: 50652 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 20:30:46 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	If I understand correctly, Gunther was writing when his views were
>Politically Correct.  I think, for example ,that the antrolpologist sof
>Nazi Germany and Stalin's Lysonckoists were percect examples of the
>whore you call Scientific Anthropolgy.
>	You simply cannot be scientific and at the same time unfailingly come
>down on the side of the establishment of your time.

Would you care to point that out to Brian Smith when he tells people
who want to know how to define the "White race" to refer to Günther?

And even better question, though is this:  So what *is* the "reality"
of human variation that you found your politics on, and how do you know
it is real?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:35:23 PST 1996
Article: 50655 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Brian is caught in another stupid lie.
Date: 27 Nov 1996 22:17:00 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57ieks$fe5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <57885a$hoh@is05.micron.net> <57bl3f$c2u@keelung.transend.com.tw> <57cmrg$g1v@is05.micron.net>  <57g5qc$6so@is05.micron.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:50655 alt.politics.nationalism.white:37211 alt.conspiracy:114652

sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>kate@accessone.com (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:


[...]

>>"White nationalists themselves will decide who is and who isn't White for
>>these purposes."  Sound exactly like what Hitler did when deciding who was
>>and who was not Jewish.  Like Edith Stein, for example.  Edith Stein was
>>born Jewish, converted to Catholocism, became a nun, was a brilliant
>>philosopher who combined the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle
>>and Edmund Husserl into her own unique philosophy, and was promptly
>>rounded up by Hitler and gassed in Auscwitz in 1944 because she was once
>>Jewish.   

>Considering that gassing is a hoax I find your story most peculiar.

So what do you think became of Edith Stein, Bri?  Do you think she's
hiding in someone's basement in order to perpetuate the "hoax"?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:35:24 PST 1996
Article: 50676 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.metal.death,alt.thrash,alt.music.jewish,rec.arts.sf.written,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.music.underground.metal.black,alt.music.underground.metal.death,alt.music.underground.metal,alt.music.grindcore,alt.music.hardcore,alt
Subject: Re: hardcore rap band sentenced to jail  !!!!
Date: 27 Nov 1996 17:39:28 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 
>> Bob Whitaker  wrote:
 
[...]
 
>> >> Nope.  Shall we go on to discuss how Rushton uses hat sizes (helmet sizes,
>> >> actually) as a measure of IQ?
 
>> >Certainly.  That makes rather obvious sense.
>> >But to cut to the chase, what does he say about race that gets PC's
>> >screaming about obscenity?  It's sure not obscenity.
 
>> There are some serious problems with using hat size to measure IQ,
>> Bob.  Why don't you read his book and then we can discuss it?


>	There is a correlation between head size and IQ.  There is a
>correlation between EVERYTHING and IQ.  It's not a very strong
>correlation, but the probability of its being due to chance is well
>under 1%.

Very good, Bob, although I disagree with you on the probability statement.
Why, for example, would one think that there is a meaningful relationship
between height and IQ?  Or do you genuinely think that tall people are
more intelligent than short people, if we assume for the moment that
IQ is a genuine measure of something that we can describe generically
as "intelligence"?

>	You made fun of his using this, penis size, whatever, but we both know
>that has nothing to do with what upsets you about him.  He is committing
>PC heresy on race, and that is your problem.  What did he say that upset
>you so much?

Why do you think that Rushton "upsets" me?  His shoddy methodology is
shameful, and the promotion of his work by others who deny these elements
of it is reprehensible.  But what infuriates me is *your* lying about
what I said with regard to Rushton's research.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 07:36:49 PST 1996
Article: 114652 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Brian is caught in another stupid lie.
Date: 27 Nov 1996 22:17:00 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57ieks$fe5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <57885a$hoh@is05.micron.net> <57bl3f$c2u@keelung.transend.com.tw> <57cmrg$g1v@is05.micron.net>  <57g5qc$6so@is05.micron.net>
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sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
>kate@accessone.com (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:


[...]

>>"White nationalists themselves will decide who is and who isn't White for
>>these purposes."  Sound exactly like what Hitler did when deciding who was
>>and who was not Jewish.  Like Edith Stein, for example.  Edith Stein was
>>born Jewish, converted to Catholocism, became a nun, was a brilliant
>>philosopher who combined the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas, Aristotle
>>and Edmund Husserl into her own unique philosophy, and was promptly
>>rounded up by Hitler and gassed in Auscwitz in 1944 because she was once
>>Jewish.   

>Considering that gassing is a hoax I find your story most peculiar.

So what do you think became of Edith Stein, Bri?  Do you think she's
hiding in someone's basement in order to perpetuate the "hoax"?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 09:57:02 PST 1996
Article: 47515 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 15:33:43 GMT
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Subject: Re: British Gun Control Laws and NAFTA
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devens@uoguelph.ca (David L Evens) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:
>: ags@centuryinter.net wrote:

>: >I heard on CNN that "lawmakers" were convinced that the British handgun ban 
>: >will effect the US gun laws because of the NAFTA treaty with Canada. A social 
>: >laws clause allows for precedent in member states to be used to set similar 
>: >statutes in other countries.

>: Canada makes its own laws.  Whatever gun control laws Britain may choose to
>: implement, they have no effect on or in Canada.  We are an *independent*
>: nation.

[...]

>Of course, if the UK was to appeal the Statute of Westminster, we'd have 
>a whole new ballgame.

Hmmm, well I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but it is my understanding that, 
now that the Canadian constitution has been repatriated, our Constitution 
overrides any potential consequences of repealing the Statute of Westminster.
I could check with someone who might actually know, though, if you're 
interested.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 09:57:04 PST 1996
Article: 47517 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Subject: Re: British Gun Control Laws and NAFTA
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e142857@teleport.com (Walter Ulrich) wrote:

>>   Laura Finsten  writes:


  
>>  Canada makes its own laws.  Whatever gun control laws Britain may choose to
>>  implement, they have no effect on or in Canada.  We are an *independent*
>>  nation.


>The how come Liz II's puss is on each and every Canadian bank note?

Cuz it's such a pretty face?  No, for the same reason that George 
Washington's graces so much of your country's currency.  Liz doesn't
make Canadian law anymore than George makes American law.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 09:57:05 PST 1996
Article: 47572 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 14:18:26 GMT
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Subject: Re: nazi Resettlement Program
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"Hummer"  wrote:

>     The absentee penguin ballots aren't in yet, and I bet they're all in
>favor of the desert.

>ahabiz@aol.com wrote in article <848113384$29042@atype.com>...

>: :-) we took another vote while you were out of the room...


I don't want to stick my nose into your decision-making, guys, but if I 
might offer an opinion here...  Although I think very highly of penguins
and would be a little bit fearful for them if Antarctica were to be
the choice, I think that it is a better choice than the Kalahari.  I
remember some years ago seeing a show about emperor penguins (more
of the Joooooosh media mindmeld, stuff, you know, calling those
miscegenated black/white creatures "emperors", really!).  Seems that they 
test the waters for predators, killer whales or whatever, by, well jostling
around until one falls in.  So you know, the NA folks could
actually serve a useful purpose, if only for a very brief time, for once
in their lives.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 09:57:06 PST 1996
Article: 47573 of misc.activism.militia
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 14:18:05 GMT
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Subject: Re: Don't ban the nazis, WHUP ON 'EM!
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cutter001@aol.com wrote:

>In message <848081925$26877@atype.com> Laura Finsten wrote:

>>Really lame.

>Typical response.  The fact remains though, that this is the process used
>when editing films.

No, Mr. cutter001, the fact remains that if your suggestion that
the film industry were intent on promoting interracial sex and
marriage, they aren't do a very good job.  There is virtually none
in Hollywood films.

>>People magazine voted him this year's sexiest man alive.
>
>Thats nice.  We all know that people don't get hired for films based on
>whether or not they've been in People magazine.  Your original claim was
>that he got the job because of his box office appeal which has nothing to
>do with People magazine.  

I've heard that women are by and large the ones who make the decisions
about which movies to attend, in discussions of film marketing.  And that
sexy male leads and romance are big factors in many genres of movies.
So "the sexiest man alive" presumably has tremendous box office appeal.
These things are not unrelated, in other words.

>By the way Dr. Pierce was in People magazine
>too.  So what's your point?

The "sexiest man alive" has tremendous box office appeal.

>I've misspelled the
>name it was NOT INTENTIONAL laura, don't get in a huff) 

Who's in a huff?  I never figured that the National Appliance recruited
for intelligence, but either way you don't come out of that one looking
too bright, Mr. cutter001.  You really don't know how to use news
software to copy the post you're responding to?  Or you think the lie
is so crafty no one will see through it?

[...]

>"Most gatekeepers are invisible to the news audience, working behind the
>scenes and making crucial decisions in near-anonymity on how the world
>will be protrayed in the evening newscast and the next morning's
>newspaper".

Gosh, are you telling me that the newspaper doesn't have everything
about everything that happened in the world in the past 24 hours?
What a shocker!!  I'm horrified.  "anonmyity"?  editors, producers,
their names are not hidden.

>"Scholars Linda and Robert Lichter who have surveyed the television
>creative community, make a case that the creators of television programs
>are social reformers who build their political ideas into their scripts. 
>The Lichters identify the television creative community as largely secular
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a surprise in a secular nation?

>and politically liberal".

And audiences are so dumb that they just sit there, like couch potatoes,
sucking all this stuff up, unable to think for themselves, unable to
change the channel, unable to turn the damn tube off and engage their
brains in something active.  You really have a great deal of contempt
for your fellow "White" folk, don't you Mr. cutter001.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 10:07:51 PST 1996
Article: 37265 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Diversity does NOT means defeat of any race
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:50:20 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Here it is, Bob.  I didn't even have to go to dejanews, it is another
strand in this thread.


My question to you was:

     Well, Bob, you *have* expressed a desire to see a "White homeland"
     established, and I assume you mean that you would like to see this
     done on American soil.  If not, please do feel free to correct me.

     I have asked you to explain how this could be done without expelling
     by force, if necessary, those who, in your assessment, would *not* 
     qualify for residency or citizenship.  You never answered my question.
     I can only assume that you have no answer to that.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 10:08:45 PST 1996
Article: 50706 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Diversity does NOT means defeat of any race
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:50:20 GMT
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Here it is, Bob.  I didn't even have to go to dejanews, it is another
strand in this thread.


My question to you was:

     Well, Bob, you *have* expressed a desire to see a "White homeland"
     established, and I assume you mean that you would like to see this
     done on American soil.  If not, please do feel free to correct me.

     I have asked you to explain how this could be done without expelling
     by force, if necessary, those who, in your assessment, would *not* 
     qualify for residency or citizenship.  You never answered my question.
     I can only assume that you have no answer to that.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 11:21:03 PST 1996
Article: 57007 of alt.discrimination
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 26 Nov 1996 17:33:41 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	Once again, I know a Poltiically Correct person would never even
>imagine asking why "Scientific Anthropology" is ALWAYS perfectly
>Politically Correct.  I gave the example of Boas emovement from a kook
>to a saint in the 1930-1945 period.

You asserted this, but you have not given a shred of evidence to
demonstrate that it is true.  Boas was widely respected in scientific
and anthropological circles long before he died.  This is evident
in his publications and lectures before respected bodies such as
the American Academy of Science in the late 19th and early 20th
century.  Get your facts straight, Bob.

>	I am bringing this up for thought by people who can think, not PC
>clones.
>	Anthropology is a whore.

Is this your assessment of Hans Günther's work?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 11:21:04 PST 1996
Article: 57108 of alt.discrimination
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,sci.anthropology,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: What Are the Race Deniers Denying?
Date: 27 Nov 1996 20:30:46 GMT
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Bob Whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>	If I understand correctly, Gunther was writing when his views were
>Politically Correct.  I think, for example ,that the antrolpologist sof
>Nazi Germany and Stalin's Lysonckoists were percect examples of the
>whore you call Scientific Anthropolgy.
>	You simply cannot be scientific and at the same time unfailingly come
>down on the side of the establishment of your time.

Would you care to point that out to Brian Smith when he tells people
who want to know how to define the "White race" to refer to Günther?

And even better question, though is this:  So what *is* the "reality"
of human variation that you found your politics on, and how do you know
it is real?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 11:46:58 PST 1996
Article: 82473 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Date: 28 Nov 1996 16:05:29 GMT
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ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

>: This is really getting ridiculous.  What do I have to do, use a scan of
>: my baptismal certificate as a signature?  I am not Jewish.  Neither of 
>: my parents is Jewish.  I was baptised Roman Catholic at a very tender age,
>: as was my father.  My mother converted to Catholicism from Presbyterianism
>: when she married my father.

>Not good enough! You have to prove that no memberof
>your family for three generations has ever sat in
>a taxi driven by a Jew.

Oh dear, well it looks like I'm in serious trouble, since none of my
grandparents is alive.  I'm pretty sure two of them were never in a
taxi in their lives, but the other two I can't vouch for at all.

>Where's the proof?

Perhaps if I could prove that there were no Jewish taxi drivers in
the cities they lived in??????


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Nov 28 11:56:51 PST 1996
Article: 37274 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: ab.politics,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,ca.politics,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Are There Races?  (Was: Re: Bob Whitaker: causing strife through the racist agenda)
Date: 28 Nov 1996 16:59:48 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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pendragn@cyberg8t.com (Arthur Ed LeBouthillier) wrote:

[...]

>No, we can not assign "blue-eyed or tall people to races."
>Race presupposes blood relations. The issue is blood
>relationships, not the particular traits evidenced by blood
>relations.[...]

Why, then, did you say last June or thereabouts that a person
with one Jewish grandparent could be "White" as long as they 
didn't "look Jewish"?  Do you remember this, Art, or do you
want to pull it up from Dejanews?

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:27:35 PST 1996
Article: 82840 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Date: 26 Nov 1996 18:28:16 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57fcs0$qcd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55l7ct$6d1@noc.van.hookup.net>  <56gm7d$1vh@is05.micron.net> <56l2dn$1r1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56mg48$6l3@is05.micron.net> <56n4oe$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56vo9h$d97@is05.micron.net> <571q8e$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <01bbd98d$93666cc0$2283aec7@default> <57c4ki$6bg@news1.ucsd.edu> <57dfs6$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <57enou$jhm@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Maybe I should just convert and change the spelling of my name.  Or maybe
>: Rad has figured out that I *am* the reincarnation of Emma Goldman, and 
>: her/my religion and politics remained intact through the spiritual whatever....

>Of course, she wasn't Marxist either!

Hey listen up, Fragano.  As the reincarnation of Emma Goldman, *I* am the only
one who *really* knows what she was/I am!!!

>I swear, there is something about racist views that causes their
>holders to have complete cerebral meltdowns.

Perhaps its realising the imminent fate of turkeys in your fair land.
Thanksgiving is coming up, no?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:37:03 PST 1996
Article: 37405 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!sunqbc.risq.net!news1.bellglobal.com!freenet-news.carleton.ca!cunews!nott!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: ab.politics,alt.journalism,alt.journalism.criticism,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,ca.politics,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Are There Races?  (Was: Re: Bob Whitaker: causing strife through the racist agenda)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:00:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <57n8bq$qr4@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <573p7s$e7m@ns2.borg.com> <574bi1$5ff@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <329a0b28.10670062@news.wco.com> <57c6l6$1l4@panix2.panix.com> <329ba524.2162525@news.cyberg8t.com> <57kge4$di3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329e3a7d.5774589@news.cyberg8t.com>
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pendragn@cyberg8t.com (Arthur Ed LeBouthillier) wrote:
>On 28 Nov 1996 16:59:48 GMT, Laura Finsten
> wrote:

>>No, we can not assign "blue-eyed or tall people to races."
>>Race presupposes blood relations. The issue is blood
>>relationships, not the particular traits evidenced by blood
>>relations.[...]

>>Why, then, did you say last June or thereabouts that a person
>>with one Jewish grandparent could be "White" as long as they 
>>didn't "look Jewish"?  Do you remember this, Art, or do you
>>want to pull it up from Dejanews?

>First off, I don't recall exactly what I said in "June or
>thereabouts." If you can repost it then I can consider it in the
>context in which it was said. However, as I said the biological
>definition of race presupposes blood relations and not merely traits.
>Traits may originate either due to the same genetic heritage or due to
>similar adaptations or mutations.

Well, I looked up your last public reply to me on this subject, and I've
extracted the relevant quotation.  The context is a little hard to
reconstruct without following the thread back, but I'll give you the
Dejanews URL in case you want to do that:

http://xp9.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=12153972&server=dnserver.dbapr&CONTEXT=849289753&hitnum=0

This is the quotation (editing marks are newly inserted by me):

Subject:      Re: Whopper of the Week: Race is "Cultural"
From:         Arthur LeBouthillier 
Date:         1996/06/27
Message-Id:   <31D33DFB.4688@cyberg8t.com>
References:   <4p6no3$3uk@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <4pabnn$4hm@axalotl.demon.co.uk> 
<4pddj4$4uc@news.usaor.net> <4pk5ci$o7c@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <4pme9c$kjj@news.usa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-Ascii
Organization: Cyberg8t Internet Services (800) 399-4NET
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:   alt.politics.nationalism.white,uk.misc,uk.politics.misc,talk.politics.european-Union,
soc.culture.europe
X-Mailer:     Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I)


[...]

[I asked]

> Well, my hypothetical example did not specify that the Jewish grandparent would
> have been Ashkenazi.  Would it make a difference if they were Sephardic?  Would
> that taint their bloodlines beyond acceptable limits?  Can you specify what the
> acceptable limits are?

[and you replied]

To the point where they do not exhibit traits which are significantly from those
I recognize as "the norm."

[...]
-----------------------
>Second off, in this context, I have been referring to the biological
>definition of race, not the ethnological one. On that basis, they are
>not the same thing. The person to whom I was referring was discussing
>the biological definition of race (which is different than the
>definition I tend to use, although I was using the biological
>definition in this case).

>Third off Laura, I think your brain has been addled by the constant
>hatred you have been vomiting on these newsgroups for so long.

Ah yes, the calm, rational voice of the White nationalist movement.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:37:04 PST 1996
Article: 37447 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy
Subject: The Brianbot doesn't have an original thought
Date: 27 Nov 1996 17:29:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57htps$4av@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <569v3d$h9v@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> <3288CE4E.3EF5@conterra.com> <56fsmi$bnr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329393DF.28A5@conterra.com> <571s9v$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A2018.29C1@conterra.com> <57dgnn$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A841A.51FA@conterra.com>  <57g5q0$6so@is05.micron.net> 
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kate@accessone.com (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <57g5q0$6so@is05.micron.net>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
[nothing]

>First of all, this answers nothing.  Second of all, every one of these web
>sites are incredibly biased and self serving, and none of them have any
>place in real debate.  How about an ORIGINAL thought from time to time,
>brian?

Kate, the Brianbot is incapable of original thought.  He's actually a
computer programme designed by someone in the National Alliance to post
the same couple of paragraphs and/or list of yukputz websites over and
over again.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:37:05 PST 1996
Article: 37486 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Date: 26 Nov 1996 18:28:16 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57fcs0$qcd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55l7ct$6d1@noc.van.hookup.net>  <56gm7d$1vh@is05.micron.net> <56l2dn$1r1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56mg48$6l3@is05.micron.net> <56n4oe$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56vo9h$d97@is05.micron.net> <571q8e$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <01bbd98d$93666cc0$2283aec7@default> <57c4ki$6bg@news1.ucsd.edu> <57dfs6$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <57enou$jhm@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Maybe I should just convert and change the spelling of my name.  Or maybe
>: Rad has figured out that I *am* the reincarnation of Emma Goldman, and 
>: her/my religion and politics remained intact through the spiritual whatever....

>Of course, she wasn't Marxist either!

Hey listen up, Fragano.  As the reincarnation of Emma Goldman, *I* am the only
one who *really* knows what she was/I am!!!

>I swear, there is something about racist views that causes their
>holders to have complete cerebral meltdowns.

Perhaps its realising the imminent fate of turkeys in your fair land.
Thanksgiving is coming up, no?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:37:06 PST 1996
Article: 37490 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!freenet.unbc.edu!news.scn.org!news.abs.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.immigration,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,alt.religion.islam
Subject: Re: What does Brian Smith want that is different from what Hitler wanted?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 17:22:56 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <57pqhg$2f9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <56jglf$6o@is05.micron.net> <5721qg$7om@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <01bbda88$6dfe2440$4c75d6ce@default> <57cu37$h2n@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <57hq52$uha@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <01bbdece$5ad728e0$c3c6b7c7@default>
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"Richard A. Hernandez"  wrote:

>Philip Kasiecki  wrote in article
><57hq52$uha@chaos.dac.neu.edu>...
>> In article <57cu37$h2n@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>,
>> Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:

>> : Is that how the world shakes down for you, Richard?  Communists and
>> : racists?  Cute.  Sure simplifies matters, doesn't it.

>Well Philip, Perhaps if you had had family members murdered by Communists
>(like maybe your little brother or sister ) you'd understand my apprehension
>when I hear the same sweet talking bullsh*t coming from little know-nothings
>like you.

The question you appear to be "responding" to is mine, not Phil's.  And you
really have not answered it.  Do you see no alternatives to the choices
"communist" and "racist", Richard?  Do you genuinely believe that if one
is not racist, one must necessarily then be a communist?

One might also note that people who have had family killed by racist
regimes tend also feel some apprehension when racist political agendas
like yours crop up.  Some perhaps you can grasp my apprehension when I
hear the same sweet talking racist crap coming from bigots like you
who dress their racism up in the "rational" language of a war against
communism.  Great straw man, Richard, but not everybody is dumb enough
to fall for that worn out canard.
 
[...]

>As for your infantile arguments ie: " Race does not exist " etc. Despite
>your pretentious sig., you are a nobody! You offer no scholorship, quote no
>scientific studies to support your hypothesis ( therefore relegating it to
>the realm of OPINION! )

Take a look at L.L. Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994 "The History and Geography
of Human Genes", Princeton University Press. Chapter 1.  If you can't find
that in your local library, let me know and I'll provide you with references
for as many human biology texts as you would like.

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:39:08 PST 1996
Article: 50881 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy
Subject: The Brianbot doesn't have an original thought
Date: 27 Nov 1996 17:29:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57htps$4av@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <569v3d$h9v@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> <3288CE4E.3EF5@conterra.com> <56fsmi$bnr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329393DF.28A5@conterra.com> <571s9v$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A2018.29C1@conterra.com> <57dgnn$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A841A.51FA@conterra.com>  <57g5q0$6so@is05.micron.net> 
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kate@accessone.com (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <57g5q0$6so@is05.micron.net>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
[nothing]

>First of all, this answers nothing.  Second of all, every one of these web
>sites are incredibly biased and self serving, and none of them have any
>place in real debate.  How about an ORIGINAL thought from time to time,
>brian?

Kate, the Brianbot is incapable of original thought.  He's actually a
computer programme designed by someone in the National Alliance to post
the same couple of paragraphs and/or list of yukputz websites over and
over again.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:39:08 PST 1996
Article: 50928 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blood sucking J E W S
Date: 26 Nov 1996 18:28:16 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57fcs0$qcd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <55l7ct$6d1@noc.van.hookup.net>  <56gm7d$1vh@is05.micron.net> <56l2dn$1r1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56mg48$6l3@is05.micron.net> <56n4oe$qfb@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <56vo9h$d97@is05.micron.net> <571q8e$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <01bbd98d$93666cc0$2283aec7@default> <57c4ki$6bg@news1.ucsd.edu> <57dfs6$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <57enou$jhm@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmaster.ca) wrote:

[...]

>: Maybe I should just convert and change the spelling of my name.  Or maybe
>: Rad has figured out that I *am* the reincarnation of Emma Goldman, and 
>: her/my religion and politics remained intact through the spiritual whatever....

>Of course, she wasn't Marxist either!

Hey listen up, Fragano.  As the reincarnation of Emma Goldman, *I* am the only
one who *really* knows what she was/I am!!!

>I swear, there is something about racist views that causes their
>holders to have complete cerebral meltdowns.

Perhaps its realising the imminent fate of turkeys in your fair land.
Thanksgiving is coming up, no?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Nov 30 11:40:41 PST 1996
Article: 115303 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy
Subject: The Brianbot doesn't have an original thought
Date: 27 Nov 1996 17:29:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57htps$4av@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <569v3d$h9v@hardcopy.ny.jpmorgan.com> <3288CE4E.3EF5@conterra.com> <56fsmi$bnr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329393DF.28A5@conterra.com> <571s9v$70s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A2018.29C1@conterra.com> <57dgnn$1np@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <329A841A.51FA@conterra.com>  <57g5q0$6so@is05.micron.net> 
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kate@accessone.com (Kathleen Mulhern) wrote:

>In article <57g5q0$6so@is05.micron.net>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:
[nothing]

>First of all, this answers nothing.  Second of all, every one of these web
>sites are incredibly biased and self serving, and none of them have any
>place in real debate.  How about an ORIGINAL thought from time to time,
>brian?

Kate, the Brianbot is incapable of original thought.  He's actually a
computer programme designed by someone in the National Alliance to post
the same couple of paragraphs and/or list of yukputz websites over and
over again.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman





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