The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/f/finsten.laura/1996/finsten.0896


From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug  1 06:30:31 PDT 1996
Article: 26586 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Should I buy the _turner Diaries_
Date: 31 Jul 1996 13:45:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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William Pierce wrote it under the pseudonym Andrew MacDonald.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug  5 14:04:10 PDT 1996
Article: 64108 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:31:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[deletia]

>I made the post out of retaliation of the systematic
>destruction of the newsgroup alt.politics.white-power
>by Jewish opponants of existance of the newsgroup,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>such as joelr@winternet.com, stukafox@best.com,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>jeannek@rio.com, fresh@panix.com, llurch@stanford.edu,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca, etc. who violently
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>threaten patrons of the newsgroup, intimidating
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>readers away.  Do you want to be threatened with rape,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>homicide, firing, harassment by telephone, mail,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to home, employers, profressors, etc. for merely
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>posting your opinions, even if they are controversial,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Mr. Vyshinsky", how would you like to substantiate
the allegations you make above with some of that stuff
called evidence?  You know, documented citations from
the posts of the people you are accusing of *criminal*
acts to demonstrate that what you have written here is
true, rather than defamatory and libellous.

By the way, I don't know who some of the folks you
mention are but Ken McVay, at least, is not Jewish.
He is also very vocally against censorship and is
very much in favour of the existence of these newsgroups.
I agree with him that letting you spew your garbage
publically like this works very strongly against
your "cause".


>to the proper and belonging newsgroup?  Well, you will
>be, as every harassing post initiated by the above and
>the dozen or so others involved in the scheme to
>eliminate alt.politics.white-power, will be crossposted
>to soc.culture.jewish, and you can witness for yourself
>the untruths, threats and harassments by your own kind
>practice when drunkenly getting carried away.  Complaints
>to admins don't work, as we are "subhuman racist hate
>artists who deserve to die."  And if our group is fully
>destroyed, we'll simply move our racist posts to some other
>large popular well carried newsgroup, such as soc.culture.jewish.
>I and others promise to include accurate identification of the
>net abusers at the beginning of the posts.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug  5 14:04:11 PDT 1996
Article: 64463 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 30 Jul 1996 13:16:46 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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jeannek@rio.com (Jeanne Kowalewski) wrote:

[...]

>While I admit to owning an "Official ZOG Agent" teeshirt, I am not Jewish.

Cool!!!  Where can I get one?

>BTW, I have been threatened with rape and homocide on Usenet and via
>e-mail since finding myself knee deep in Aryan culture here and, *yes*, I
>do have archives. If y'all master race types can't put forth a credible
>argument, don't blame the lib'ruls for showing you to be illogical
>buffoons.

Yeah, my impression too was that the direction in which threats flow
is backwards in the original "article".




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug  7 20:18:13 PDT 1996
Article: 86382 of can.general
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,tor.general,soc.culture.canada,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,ab.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
Date: 7 Aug 1996 19:51:38 GMT
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]

>EXCUSE ME?!?  Mind telling me WHAT hand-outs were available to the settlers?

Ever heard of those things called "land grants", Mr. Griswold?

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug  8 09:19:31 PDT 1996
Article: 63243 of can.politics
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,tor.general,soc.culture.canada,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,ab.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]

>EXCUSE ME?!?  Mind telling me WHAT hand-outs were available to the settlers?

Ever heard of those things called "land grants", Mr. Griswold?

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug  8 10:13:28 PDT 1996
Article: 96070 of soc.culture.canada
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,tor.general,soc.culture.canada,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,ab.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]

>EXCUSE ME?!?  Mind telling me WHAT hand-outs were available to the settlers?

Ever heard of those things called "land grants", Mr. Griswold?

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug  8 10:18:08 PDT 1996
Article: 51771 of alt.discrimination
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,tor.general,soc.culture.canada,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,ab.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]

>EXCUSE ME?!?  Mind telling me WHAT hand-outs were available to the settlers?

Ever heard of those things called "land grants", Mr. Griswold?

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug  9 09:36:32 PDT 1996
Article: 38595 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: MOST ENDANGERED SPECIES:  THE WHITE RACE!!
Date: 8 Aug 1996 16:49:55 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

[...]

>Mr. Harrold, not only _can_ different species interbreed, they _do_ 
>interbreed, and they _do_ produce offspring.

>Examples include dogs and wolves, bison and cattle, lions and tigers, 
>guppies and platties, donkeys and horses.


Mr. Strom, perhaps you should note that in at least one of these cases
you cite (donkeys and horses), the resulting offspring are not viable.
The ability to produce *viable* offspring (that is, young who are
fertile and capable of reproducing themselves, rather than infertile
offspring, like mules) is a key element of the biological definition
of the concept of species.

Further, however, perhaps you would tell me what evidence you think
supports the idea that there are more than one species of human
living today.  I'd really like to hear this one.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 10 09:53:06 PDT 1996
Article: 56204 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>evil Beavis  wrote:
>>bob whitaker wrote:
 
>>>     In the midst of all this is my point: the only major race
>>> (Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid) that will disappear is the
>>> white race.  Asia will remain solidly Mongoloid(I doubt japan
>>> will open up, no one is really pressing her to do so, since
>>> Japan is not white), and regardles of Japan, there are a
>>> billion Chinese and no one wants to go there.   Nobody is going
>>> to poor, starving, disease-ridden, totalitarian, starving
>>> Africa.   Only one race has got to go, and it's mine.

>>Why so paranoid and insecure? I believe we have the skills and cunning
>>not only to be around for as long as we want to, but to get along with
>>the rest of the world also. This happens already in most places although
>>the media and individuals who fear and hate diversity do their best to
>>convince scared people like you otherwise!

>    You are not for diversity, you simply want to get rid of 
>whites.


Well, Mr. Whitaker, you do indeed assume that anyone who is not
anti-immigrationist and racist wants to "get rid of whites", as you
so elegantly phrase it.  I have to tell you, though, I really do not
follow your reasoning on this, perhaps because I've never seen you
explain how you actually move logically from the one to the other.
Would you care to explain it to me?

I have another question, as well.  Do you start pining for the "white
race" when you see "white" folks tanning on the beach?  Do you get
all worried that darkened skin tones are negatively related to moral
and cultural values, and IQ, and worry about a decline in the integrity
of western civilisation during the summer months?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 10 11:14:56 PDT 1996
Article: 26986 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Healing Racism
Date: 9 Aug 1996 18:17:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4ufvc7$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4toojo$hgl@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4ubtg6$8i0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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loki999@ix.netcom.com (Jean Robards) wrote:

[...]

>    Hm.....racism (an instict) is a tumour (a cororal orfice)...hmmmm I
>guess that means,according to liberal logic....an earache is related to
>love...hmm....I doubt any doctors will back this one 


Racism is an instinct?!?!?  I hate to be tedious and repetitive here,
but please do tell me what leads you to this conclusion.  To call
racism an "instinct" implies that it is a genetic trait, and that
children do not have to be taught to be racism.  It also implies
that some of us are "mutants".  If racism is an instinct, I'm happy
to be a mutant.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 10 11:28:19 PDT 1996
Article: 51881 of alt.discrimination
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Healing Racism
Date: 9 Aug 1996 18:17:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4ufvc7$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4toojo$hgl@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4ubtg6$8i0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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loki999@ix.netcom.com (Jean Robards) wrote:

[...]

>    Hm.....racism (an instict) is a tumour (a cororal orfice)...hmmmm I
>guess that means,according to liberal logic....an earache is related to
>love...hmm....I doubt any doctors will back this one 


Racism is an instinct?!?!?  I hate to be tedious and repetitive here,
but please do tell me what leads you to this conclusion.  To call
racism an "instinct" implies that it is a genetic trait, and that
children do not have to be taught to be racism.  It also implies
that some of us are "mutants".  If racism is an instinct, I'm happy
to be a mutant.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 10 13:53:53 PDT 1996
Article: 38753 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Healing Racism
Date: 9 Aug 1996 18:17:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4ufvc7$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4toojo$hgl@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4ubtg6$8i0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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loki999@ix.netcom.com (Jean Robards) wrote:

[...]

>    Hm.....racism (an instict) is a tumour (a cororal orfice)...hmmmm I
>guess that means,according to liberal logic....an earache is related to
>love...hmm....I doubt any doctors will back this one 


Racism is an instinct?!?!?  I hate to be tedious and repetitive here,
but please do tell me what leads you to this conclusion.  To call
racism an "instinct" implies that it is a genetic trait, and that
children do not have to be taught to be racism.  It also implies
that some of us are "mutants".  If racism is an instinct, I'm happy
to be a mutant.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 10 13:53:54 PDT 1996
Article: 38801 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.jg-brown-bot
Subject: Re: ISN'T WHITE SELF-SACRIFICE A FORM OF WHITE SUPREMACY?
Date: 9 Aug 1996 18:43:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 64
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:
[...]

>Really, Mr. Brown, I get the feeling you're trying to hold my feet to the 
>fire just because it's in your programming. I can hardly believe that you 
>are _seriously_ suggesting that there exists a majority-White country 
>today that has racial qualifications for citizenship.

>I am most interested in your sources which indicate that there _are_ 
>majority-White countries that do not currently accept multiracialism. 
>Please list these countries now, or admit that my statement is true.

>Try not to weasel out of answering me this time. Allies and opponents 
>alike will admire a direct, responsive answer.

Since every western country is (I believe, and I'm sure someone will
correct me if I am wrong) signatory to the UN Declaration on Human
Rights, and since this international declaration and the internal laws
of all western countries prohibit discrimination on the basis of
"race" and "national origin", I'm sure there aren't any western countries
that today have "racial qualifications" for citizenship.

But there are many countries that have and are manipulating both
their immigration laws and their laws governing refugees which are, to
my mind at least, clearly intended to restrict the scope of immigration
in ways which have nothing to do with anything but "race" and "national
origin".  A good example is the recent change of law in Austria and, I 
think also Germany, declaring that no one who has set foot in a third
country on their travels from their country of origin can be eligible
for refugee status. 

[...]

>> > You state that the position that 'EVERY majority white country must
>> > become "multiracial"' is a straw man created by Whitaker. Therefore you
>> > demanded proof that anyone has ever said such a thing. If you need proof
>> > of that, then _obviously_ you must not hold such a position yourself.
 
>> Nope. It means I doubt "that anyone has ever said such a thing". No more,
>> no less. Your 'implications' and your surmises of what must be going
>> through my mind are your creations.


>Since you are now only claiming that no one has ever _said_ such a thing 
>outright, then my observation that such a thing is in fact happening 
>stands unchallenged. You don't deny that people _believe_ such things 
>and act on those beliefs. And Mr. Whitaker was not erecting a straw man.

"Is happening", Mr. Strom?  When has the United States or Canada *ever*
been "uni-racial"?????  Given the way "race" has been alternately defined
historically, it would be very difficult to argue that any modern European
nation-state was ever "uni-racial", since state-making in Europe unified
under the umbrella of a single political entity various groups who had
historically seen themselves as distinct from others.

[...]


[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 10 19:40:08 PDT 1996
Article: 56380 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 10 Aug 1996 13:33:57 GMT
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"Ourobouros"  wrote:

[...]

>If you are not full of hate yourself, then why do you persist in your
>emotional babble on apw-p and apnw?


I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I persist so that your
misunderstandings, lies and distortions are pointed out


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Aug 11 12:13:58 PDT 1996
Article: 56534 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OLD FAT FOOL SEEKING  YOUNG FAT BROAD
Date: 10 Aug 1996 13:29:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>Having just received my latest shipment of ginseng extract, I am currently 
>feeling rather frisky, and find my self burdened with a paupacity of female 
>companionship.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^

Marduk at work?  Or has the Giwer creature forgotten how to spell even the
words of his own creation?


>In particular, I am seeking a nubile fatbroad of the holohugger persuasion. If 
>she is Canadian, even better.


Mercifully, I am only an ersatz fatbroad.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 10:31:51 PDT 1996
Article: 67717 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Adopt a Holocaust Denier Pledge Program
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:19:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4uni22$m3i@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4u4k7m$vp@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>   <320ddaeb.2302261@news.inetport.com> <4ulepm$fmo@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4ulqr8$hff@news1.panix.com>
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fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>Just some observations, if I may...

>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

[...]

>>Wait just a darned MINUTE, here, bub! This FATBROAD T-shirt
>>stuff is getting WAAY out of hand.

>>The FFR (First Fatbroad Rule) clearly states that only female
>>FATBROAD-DESIGNATES are eligible to receive the FTS.

>>As you know, eligible FTS recipients are flown, all expenses
>>paid, to Maui, where they enjoy the 45-day initiation
>>ceremony. Mr. Gandi is not eligible.

>OK, but you better have a troop-transport ready for the FBs; I mean,
>how much torque (thrust?  force?  don't ask me!) will you have to get
>to get these Fatbroads airborne?  Gotta be careful!


Hey, just a minute here!  As a genuine, although admittedly ersatz,
fatbroad, I take offence!!!  I fit comfortably in the cheap seats on
commercial airplanes, and even in the backseat of a subaru with
3 other fatbroads and fat boys, as long as no one sneezes.  Geesh,
you guys gotta stop engaging in stereotypes.

Someone tell the true fatbroad that the keys and deed haven't arrived
yet, and she should be *very* concerned about that....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 13:05:39 PDT 1996
Article: 56880 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Adopt a Holocaust Denier Pledge Program
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:19:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4uni22$m3i@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4u4k7m$vp@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>   <320ddaeb.2302261@news.inetport.com> <4ulepm$fmo@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4ulqr8$hff@news1.panix.com>
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fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>Just some observations, if I may...

>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

[...]

>>Wait just a darned MINUTE, here, bub! This FATBROAD T-shirt
>>stuff is getting WAAY out of hand.

>>The FFR (First Fatbroad Rule) clearly states that only female
>>FATBROAD-DESIGNATES are eligible to receive the FTS.

>>As you know, eligible FTS recipients are flown, all expenses
>>paid, to Maui, where they enjoy the 45-day initiation
>>ceremony. Mr. Gandi is not eligible.

>OK, but you better have a troop-transport ready for the FBs; I mean,
>how much torque (thrust?  force?  don't ask me!) will you have to get
>to get these Fatbroads airborne?  Gotta be careful!


Hey, just a minute here!  As a genuine, although admittedly ersatz,
fatbroad, I take offence!!!  I fit comfortably in the cheap seats on
commercial airplanes, and even in the backseat of a subaru with
3 other fatbroads and fat boys, as long as no one sneezes.  Geesh,
you guys gotta stop engaging in stereotypes.

Someone tell the true fatbroad that the keys and deed haven't arrived
yet, and she should be *very* concerned about that....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 13:05:40 PDT 1996
Article: 56897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: THE HYPOCRISY OF THE JEW
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:58:47 GMT
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reverend@iinet.net.au (peter wheeler) wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:


>>"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
>>          Emma Goldman


>Curious that you should say that.

I didn't say it, Emma Goldman did.  In light of Milton Kleim's views
about the polka, I found it highly amusing.  



>A few years agio, when Michael Jackson visited the BANDIT STATE of
>Israel, he thought that it would be a good idea to visit the 'Wailing
>Wall'.  

>When those Jew  Boys saw Jacko moonwalking towards their holy grail
>they went beserk and tries to lynch him.

>So much for allowing dance in the revolultion Finstein!
                                               ^^^^^^^^

You have, erroneously I am sure, misspelled my name.


>And so much for tolerance.

I am not familiar with the details of the story you relate.  But if
the generalities are true, I would imagine that the moonwalking at
the Wailing Wall would go over as well among religious Jews as
having a Courtney Love or Madonna concert in the Vatican would 
among Catholics.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 13:05:40 PDT 1996
Article: 56898 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:53:37 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4unk21$ouq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com>  <4suib0$dfq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31F3D44B.6B72@scott.net> <31F51A9A.4C3B@vegas.infi.net> <4t4avt$29c@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31F7043B.638@scott.net> <4u0d1g$18m@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>  <32093BE5.62CB@fdr.euu> <4ucved$d6d@molokini.conterra.com> <320A0C11.3C79@intersurf.com> <4ud75a$itu@molokini.conterra.com> <4ufvlg$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uib2v$fr1@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...

>>Well, Mr. Whitaker, you do indeed assume that anyone who is not
>>anti-immigrationist and racist wants to "get rid of whites", as you
>>so elegantly phrase it.  I have to tell you, though, I really do not
>>follow your reasoning on this, perhaps because I've never seen you
>>explain how you actually move logically from the one to the other.
>>Would you care to explain it to me?

>>I have another question, as well.  Do you start pining for the "white
>>race" when you see "white" folks tanning on the beach?  Do you get
>>all worried that darkened skin tones are negatively related to moral
>>and cultural values, and IQ, and worry about a decline in the integrity
>>of western civilisation during the summer months?

[...]
>      Blacks and Mongoloids don't need immigration laws.  Asia 
>is huge and no racially significant number of people are going 
>there.  Nobody wants to go to Africa, again, in important 
>numbers.  Lots of AIDS reserachers go there, of course, but 
>that's not an inucement to others.
>      Ihave made this point many times.  I have pointed out  
>that white self-sacrifice is part of the white supremacist 
>mentality.  All I get back is Mommy Professor tricks and silly 
>ass stuff like this old getting a suntan.


Well Mr. Whitaker, every time I have tried to engage you in discussion
of your "ideas", or get clarification from you about what your "ideas"
are, all I get is the rather demented sounding "Mommy Professor" line.
I notice, too, that you're retrenching into the clone drone once more,
as well.

I asked you to explain your reasoning.  You connect those who are
not racist and are willing to allow "non-whites" to stay in North
America as well as to admit additional "non-white" immigrants, to
the destruction of what you call "the white race".  My question was
a sincere one.  It does not follow, to me, how the one leads to
the other.  But rather than explain this, you just resort to the
same old clumsy evasive manoeuvres and generalised slurs.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 13:21:31 PDT 1996
Article: 27115 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Healing Racism
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:42:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4unjdr$m3i@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4toojo$hgl@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4ubtg6$8i0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4ufvc7$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uh6eq$4mc@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
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fische11@ix.netcom.com(some bizzare guy on the internet) wrote:

>All emotions are based on instinct (send examples to me via e-mail,
>I'll show you how).  Racism is based on the fear of the unknown, which
>is based on intimidation, which is based on death.  The last three are
>instinct, and racism is, too.  But, like the fear of death or the
>unknown, it can be overpowered.  And like the fear of the dark, even a
>child's mind can.

I couldn't agree with you more that racism is based largely on fear,
although I would add ignorance.  However, while fear itself may be
an emotional (and instinctual) response in certain circumstances,
I disagree with you that racism itself is instinctual.  Children
must be taught to fear people, for the most part.  Children must
be taught that certain categories of people are not to be trusted,
are not as good as they are.  Racism may be built on generalised
instincts, but in my opinion it is very much a learned view of
the world.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 13:36:45 PDT 1996
Article: 39163 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Healing Racism
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:42:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4unjdr$m3i@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4toojo$hgl@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4ubtg6$8i0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4ufvc7$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uh6eq$4mc@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.discrimination:51990 alt.politics.white-power:39163 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27115

fische11@ix.netcom.com(some bizzare guy on the internet) wrote:

>All emotions are based on instinct (send examples to me via e-mail,
>I'll show you how).  Racism is based on the fear of the unknown, which
>is based on intimidation, which is based on death.  The last three are
>instinct, and racism is, too.  But, like the fear of death or the
>unknown, it can be overpowered.  And like the fear of the dark, even a
>child's mind can.

I couldn't agree with you more that racism is based largely on fear,
although I would add ignorance.  However, while fear itself may be
an emotional (and instinctual) response in certain circumstances,
I disagree with you that racism itself is instinctual.  Children
must be taught to fear people, for the most part.  Children must
be taught that certain categories of people are not to be trusted,
are not as good as they are.  Racism may be built on generalised
instincts, but in my opinion it is very much a learned view of
the world.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 14:26:22 PDT 1996
Article: 428919 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 12 Aug 1996 16:03:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4unkku$ouq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com>  <4suib0$dfq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31F3D44B.6B72@scott.net> <31F51A9A.4C3B@vegas.infi.net> <4t4avt$29c@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31F7043B.638@scott.net> <4u0d1g$18m@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4u5mqv$1dn@molokini.conterra.com> <32075B83.62E9@intersurf.com> <4u7sbv$j7c@molokini.conterra.com> <3207D2D9.73D7@intersurf.com> <01bb8647.1c6fa760$5fa11dcb@peasant> <4ui345$21j@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ulnir$2la@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>"Ourobouros"  wrote:

>>[...]

>>>If you are not full of hate yourself, then why do you persist in your
>>>emotional babble on apw-p and apnw?


>>I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I persist so that your
>>misunderstandings, lies and distortions are pointed out

>   As I said, trying to explain any concept to a Politically 
>Correct person like you is like trying to push toothpaste back 
>into a tube.


You haven't been following things very closely, Mr. Whitaker,
if you don't realise that "Mr. Stone" (who is a nonexistent user
at his isp) has not succeeded in "explaining" any concepts to me
because I actually understand them better than he does.  In fact,
"Mr. Stone" has shown himself to rather astonishingly ignorant about
issues he posts voluminously on.  I'm not going to apologise for
knowing the subject matter he wants to twist to support his views
better than he does.

Remember the "stable genotype" discussion, Mr. Whitaker?  It is
very much like that.  You couldn't explain it to me because you
didn't know what you were talking about.

Try to put some of that toothpaste on your brush.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 14:38:41 PDT 1996
Article: 56909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 12 Aug 1996 16:03:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4unkku$ouq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com>  <4suib0$dfq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31F3D44B.6B72@scott.net> <31F51A9A.4C3B@vegas.infi.net> <4t4avt$29c@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31F7043B.638@scott.net> <4u0d1g$18m@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <4u5mqv$1dn@molokini.conterra.com> <32075B83.62E9@intersurf.com> <4u7sbv$j7c@molokini.conterra.com> <3207D2D9.73D7@intersurf.com> <01bb8647.1c6fa760$5fa11dcb@peasant> <4ui345$21j@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ulnir$2la@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>"Ourobouros"  wrote:

>>[...]

>>>If you are not full of hate yourself, then why do you persist in your
>>>emotional babble on apw-p and apnw?


>>I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I persist so that your
>>misunderstandings, lies and distortions are pointed out

>   As I said, trying to explain any concept to a Politically 
>Correct person like you is like trying to push toothpaste back 
>into a tube.


You haven't been following things very closely, Mr. Whitaker,
if you don't realise that "Mr. Stone" (who is a nonexistent user
at his isp) has not succeeded in "explaining" any concepts to me
because I actually understand them better than he does.  In fact,
"Mr. Stone" has shown himself to rather astonishingly ignorant about
issues he posts voluminously on.  I'm not going to apologise for
knowing the subject matter he wants to twist to support his views
better than he does.

Remember the "stable genotype" discussion, Mr. Whitaker?  It is
very much like that.  You couldn't explain it to me because you
didn't know what you were talking about.

Try to put some of that toothpaste on your brush.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 14:58:56 PDT 1996
Article: 51990 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Healing Racism
Date: 12 Aug 1996 15:42:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4unjdr$m3i@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4toojo$hgl@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4ubtg6$8i0@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4ufvc7$1q2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uh6eq$4mc@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.discrimination:51990 alt.politics.white-power:39163 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27115

fische11@ix.netcom.com(some bizzare guy on the internet) wrote:

>All emotions are based on instinct (send examples to me via e-mail,
>I'll show you how).  Racism is based on the fear of the unknown, which
>is based on intimidation, which is based on death.  The last three are
>instinct, and racism is, too.  But, like the fear of death or the
>unknown, it can be overpowered.  And like the fear of the dark, even a
>child's mind can.

I couldn't agree with you more that racism is based largely on fear,
although I would add ignorance.  However, while fear itself may be
an emotional (and instinctual) response in certain circumstances,
I disagree with you that racism itself is instinctual.  Children
must be taught to fear people, for the most part.  Children must
be taught that certain categories of people are not to be trusted,
are not as good as they are.  Racism may be built on generalised
instincts, but in my opinion it is very much a learned view of
the world.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 20:56:35 PDT 1996
Article: 56964 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 12 Aug 1996 18:47:17 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4unu7l$2su@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t2mpv$gd@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4t4qci$eg7@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4t94g4$pes@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4tacbv$id0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4u3pla$2jm0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t2mpv$gd@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4t4qci$eg7@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>  <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4t94g4$pes@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4tacbv$id0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4u3pla$2jm0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4uaqmp$3cu@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ujjht$4qbk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <4uaqmp$3cu@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> - Laura Finsten
> writes:

[...]

>:>Why do girls just want to have fun?!?!?!?  Fun?  Everybody who knows me
>:>knows that I am dead serious and humourless, McFeerenstein.  Not a frivolous
>:>bone in my head.              

>That's not what I hear from ZOG PIZZA SOUTH AND WEST, condo-hugger.!


Sounds to me like you've been sold a real song and dance, McVeesteinov.
Give him a t-shirt and he'll believe anything.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 12 20:56:36 PDT 1996
Article: 56975 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!cancer.vividnet.com!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 12 Aug 1996 20:11:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4uo35q$5f7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4ucved$d6d@molokini.conterra.com> <320A0C11.3C79@intersurf.com> <4ud75a$itu@molokini.conterra.com> <4ue59v$6vr@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <4ugi91$4hm@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    I went through being a professor, Ca[pitol Hill, the whole 
>bit, but I was always separate from my colleagues in not giging 
>the benefit of respectability to these sickos, and I don't now.

Not "hiding" your academic background any longer, Mr. Whitaker?
Gee, you've lost a great source for professing to have been
wronged by the clones by making this public disclosure.

>     Little Beaver aqnd Kasiecki are perennial "good boys".  If 
>they were in Nazi Germany,t ehy would be enthusiastically 
>rounding up the Jewsx, under Stalin they would be, in all 
>sincerity, shipping millions off to the Gulag.   Good boys in 
>the twentieth century have done more evil t han bad boys could 
>imagine.   That is the lesson of the century which we refuse to 
>learn.

I gather your degree wasn't in 20th century European history?
The big guy in charge in Nazi Germany was Adolph Hitler,
Mr. Whitaker, not Joseph Stalin.  You seem to be confusing
the Soviet Union and its political regime with Nazi Germany's,
which was certainly not a cookie-cutter replica of the USSR's.

It wasn't the "communists" who rounded up Jews in Nazi Germany,
Mr. Whitaker, but the Nazis.  In fact, communists were another
of the Nazis' targeted groups.

You think Hitler was a "good boy"?  How many people do you
know who would continue to describe Stalin as a "good boy"?
You seem to believe that everyone sees the world, and recent
history, in the same grossly oversimplified black and white
terms with which you view the world.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 13 08:05:14 PDT 1996
Article: 57042 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: I Love You, White Girl
Date: 9 Aug 1996 21:54:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) wrote:
>In article , Pissed Youth  wrote:

>>          TO MY WHITE GIRL

>>          I love you
>>          Because you're white,
>>          Not because you're charming
>>          Or bright.

>Gosh, I think somebody might finally have found a "pickup line"
>that's less effective than the ones Jim Bowery uses!



Maybe some people feel they can only be loved and respected for
some minor accident of their birth, rather than for who they are.
It sure doesn't make me swoon, though.  gag...



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 13 09:28:24 PDT 1996
Article: 39267 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.jg-brown-bot
Subject: Re: ISN'T WHITE SELF-SACRIFICE A FORM OF WHITE SUPREMACY?
Date: 12 Aug 1996 19:02:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4unv51$2su@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

>Laura Finsten wrote:

[...]

>> "Is happening", Mr. Strom?  When has the United States or Canada *ever*
>> been "uni-racial"?????  Given the way "race" has been alternately defined
>> historically, it would be very difficult to argue that any modern European
>> nation-state was ever "uni-racial", since state-making in Europe unified
>> under the umbrella of a single political entity various groups who had
>> historically seen themselves as distinct from others.

>Brown -- who has weaseled out of answering any of my questions -- had 
>asserted that Mr. Whitaker was erecting a "straw man" when he (Whitaker) 
>said that all majority-White countries were today expected to be 
>multiracial. Of course, it wasn't and isn't a straw man, as all observant 
>and literate people well know. That was the only issue in question in my 
>post; though I can see how following Brown's twists and evasions and 
>non-sequiturs as he attempts to avoid answering my simple and direct 
>questions can easily be confusing to the reader.

Well, it wasn't the only issue in my post.  The one you failed to address
at all is in my original paragraph above.  But since you seem to have
missed it the first time through, I'll repeat here, and rephrase it, as
well.

When have contemporary North American nations ever been "uni-racial"?
If you are going to argue that they have been, please define the term
for me.  I don't mind if you limit your answer to the United States.
But I sure would like an answer to my question, because it seems to
me that *your* argument is based on a strawman.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 13 09:28:25 PDT 1996
Article: 39293 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Girls just wanna have fun was Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 9 Aug 1996 22:08:49 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
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References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4t <4ubr6e$1p2c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4udaso$f18@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

[...]

>PS... Finstenovstein has returned Britannia, and she is once
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

For some reason, this reminds me of a cocktail.  I was sure
it was called a margarita, though.  But with a twist.  A very
bizarre twist.


..

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 13 09:28:26 PDT 1996
Article: 39295 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: THIS IS WHY POLITICALLY CORRECT PEOPLE STILLTHINK "DUHH!" IS A GOOD ARGUMENT
Date: 12 Aug 1996 16:09:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:

>    The useful thing about having an old fart like me around is 
>to provide what is called "institutional memory".   I remember 
>w    hen people did not use the term "politically correct", and 
>when liberals were considered True Intellectuals, the Only True 
>Intellectuals, in fact.  Every body didn't know then that 
>liberals practiced what they preached against, such as 
>intolerance.
>    What wee now call politically Correct people insisted that 
>punishment did not prevent crime.  However, their reaction to 
>any vigilante action against criminals was to demand ferocious 
>punishment of the vigilantes.  "Why?", you might ask them, and 
>they would say, "To stop vigilanteeism from spreading.", they 
>would reply.
>    You would then say, "But doesn't that mean that punishing a 
>crime, such as vigilanteeism, is the way to prevent it?"  They 
>would reply, "Yes!"  
>     Then you would say, "So you would say you were wrong, that 
>punishment does in fact prvent crime?"
>    "They would reply, "DUHH!"


Are you lucid enough to see what you have written here as a 
challenge, Mr. Whitaker?  I interpret your words this way.

I'll take you up on your implicit challenge.  I would be happy
to engage you in debate, on the topic of your choice as long as
it is related to this newsgroup.  Debate, Mr. Whitaker, not
name-calling, not evasion, not more of your incessant and
hollow whining about PC, clones, and Mommy Professors. (You
really ought to do something about your fixation of intellectual
women, Mr. Whitaker.)

Name an issue, state your position.  In other words, put your
"old fart's" brain and perspective where your mouth is.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 14 11:29:21 PDT 1996
Article: 430280 of talk.politics.misc
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 14 Aug 1996 15:20:58 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     At the publically supported liberal seminaries we call 
>universities, what Mommy Professor teaches these clones is that 
>Hitler was uniquely evil, and he was evil only because he 
>opposed racial intermarriage.

Wow, if this is what you learned about Hitler's regime in
history, Mr. Whitaker, you got a poor education.  It certainly
isn't what I have learned.  Do you think that he had twelve
million Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners and others
murdered just so that racial intermarriages would be less
frequent?  Do you think that he invaded and occupied most
of Europe in an effort to stop racial intermarriage?

>     I have pointed out ot clones that Hitler was a complete 
>totalitarian.  I then aask them if he would have been nicer if 
>he had a leftist or Stalinist totalitartian instead of a 
>racist.
>      Guess what their reply was?
>      You guessed it:
>      DUHH!
>      Rather than seeing Hitler in the context of a 
>totalitairan disease in our century, the liberal seminsary 
>needs him as a unique phenomenon, only evil because he was not 
>a leftist.


Your ignorance and proclivity to stereotype your protoganists
here are truly phenomenal, Mr. Whitaker.  Once again, you imply
(incorrectly, I will add, although your neural functioning won't
be able to get a ganglion around that, I expect) that I consider 
Hitler to be the epitomy of evil.  And now you assume that whatever 
status I assign to his actions stems only from the racialist basis 
of many of his policies.  If this is the kind of "reasoning" based
on "evidence" that characterised your academic work, no wonder 
you are no longer a "daddy professor".


>      Finstin is so beautifully clonish: the whole concept is 
>totally beyond her.

Just another lovely bit of fluff, an airhead, not worthy of
serious response?  What a coward you are, Mr. Whitaker. 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 14 12:16:21 PDT 1996
Article: 57291 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 14 Aug 1996 15:20:58 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 52
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References: <4ucved$d6d@molokini.conterra.com> <320A0C11.3C79@intersurf.com> <4ud75a$itu@molokini.conterra.com> <4ue59v$6vr@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <4ugi91$4hm@molokini.conterra.com> <4uo35q$5f7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uqhs9$krb@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     At the publically supported liberal seminaries we call 
>universities, what Mommy Professor teaches these clones is that 
>Hitler was uniquely evil, and he was evil only because he 
>opposed racial intermarriage.

Wow, if this is what you learned about Hitler's regime in
history, Mr. Whitaker, you got a poor education.  It certainly
isn't what I have learned.  Do you think that he had twelve
million Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners and others
murdered just so that racial intermarriages would be less
frequent?  Do you think that he invaded and occupied most
of Europe in an effort to stop racial intermarriage?

>     I have pointed out ot clones that Hitler was a complete 
>totalitarian.  I then aask them if he would have been nicer if 
>he had a leftist or Stalinist totalitartian instead of a 
>racist.
>      Guess what their reply was?
>      You guessed it:
>      DUHH!
>      Rather than seeing Hitler in the context of a 
>totalitairan disease in our century, the liberal seminsary 
>needs him as a unique phenomenon, only evil because he was not 
>a leftist.


Your ignorance and proclivity to stereotype your protoganists
here are truly phenomenal, Mr. Whitaker.  Once again, you imply
(incorrectly, I will add, although your neural functioning won't
be able to get a ganglion around that, I expect) that I consider 
Hitler to be the epitomy of evil.  And now you assume that whatever 
status I assign to his actions stems only from the racialist basis 
of many of his policies.  If this is the kind of "reasoning" based
on "evidence" that characterised your academic work, no wonder 
you are no longer a "daddy professor".


>      Finstin is so beautifully clonish: the whole concept is 
>totally beyond her.

Just another lovely bit of fluff, an airhead, not worthy of
serious response?  What a coward you are, Mr. Whitaker. 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 14 12:57:13 PDT 1996
Article: 34695 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 14 Aug 1996 03:01:00 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:39443 alt.skinheads:34695

bob whitaker  wrote:

>    Note that the politically Correct types who deny they want 
>all majority white countries, and only majority white 
>countries, to become multiracial, also use quotations marks 
>around "white".  They are saying white people don't really 
>exist, so why shouldn't they get rid of them.

Well, Mr. Whitaker, I'd be happy to discuss the biology of
racial categories like "white" with you, but as I recall,
you couldn't follow a fairly simple discussion of human
population genetics the last time I tried, so frankly, I 
don't see the point.

I also don't see the point because it is apparent that you
have, once again, descended into incoherence and ad hominem
invective.  It didn't take you long.  And for a day or so
I thought you might finally have figured out the proper
dosage for your medication.  Too bad.  Don't give up, though,
there might be hope for you yet, if you haven't totally
fried all your neurons already.

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 14 13:57:33 PDT 1996
Article: 39443 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 14 Aug 1996 03:01:00 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:39443 alt.skinheads:34695

bob whitaker  wrote:

>    Note that the politically Correct types who deny they want 
>all majority white countries, and only majority white 
>countries, to become multiracial, also use quotations marks 
>around "white".  They are saying white people don't really 
>exist, so why shouldn't they get rid of them.

Well, Mr. Whitaker, I'd be happy to discuss the biology of
racial categories like "white" with you, but as I recall,
you couldn't follow a fairly simple discussion of human
population genetics the last time I tried, so frankly, I 
don't see the point.

I also don't see the point because it is apparent that you
have, once again, descended into incoherence and ad hominem
invective.  It didn't take you long.  And for a day or so
I thought you might finally have figured out the proper
dosage for your medication.  Too bad.  Don't give up, though,
there might be hope for you yet, if you haven't totally
fried all your neurons already.

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 14 16:39:53 PDT 1996
Article: 39475 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 14 Aug 1996 15:09:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]


>>>     Little Beaver aqnd Kasiecki are perennial "good boys".  If 
>>>they were in Nazi Germany,t ehy would be enthusiastically 
>>>rounding up the Jewsx, under Stalin they would be, in all 
>>>sincerity, shipping millions off to the Gulag.   Good boys in 
>>>the twentieth century have done more evil t han bad boys could 
>>>imagine.   That is the lesson of the century which we refuse to 
>>>learn.

[...]
>>The big guy in charge in Nazi Germany was Adolph Hitler,
>>Mr. Whitaker, not Joseph Stalin.  You seem to be confusing
>>the Soviet Union and its political regime with Nazi Germany's,
>>which was certainly not a cookie-cutter replica of the USSR's.

>>It wasn't the "communists" who rounded up Jews in Nazi Germany,
>>Mr. Whitaker, but the Nazis.  In fact, communists were another
>>of the Nazis' targeted groups.

[...]

>   My point was that there were a LOT of awfult hings in this 
>century besides the Jews in Nazi Germany.  I am not surprised 
>that you are totally unable even to imagine that, as you say 
>here.

This response is classic Bob Whitaker.  You screwed up and
confused Hitler and Stalin, and Germany under the NSDAP with
the Soviet Union under Stalin.  Rather than admit your error,
you procede to chastise me for narrowmindedness and ignorance.

It is an interesting "debating" technique, Mr. Whitaker.
This exchange says little about what I do or do not know 
about 20th century world history, except that I, unlike you, do not 
confuse Stalin with Hitler, or the Soviet Union with Nazi Germany.  
It says nothing whatsoever about what, if any, relative status
in the annals of evil I assign to Hitler, Stalin, or other
political leaders.

It does, however, indicate that you have so fragile an ego 
you cannot admit error, that you write (and think?) incoherently,
and that your mind works like a steel trap.  Unfortunately,
the trap seems to predate stainless steel, and appears to
be permanently and irrevocably rusted shut. 




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 14 17:51:25 PDT 1996
Article: 57354 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 14 Aug 1996 15:09:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]


>>>     Little Beaver aqnd Kasiecki are perennial "good boys".  If 
>>>they were in Nazi Germany,t ehy would be enthusiastically 
>>>rounding up the Jewsx, under Stalin they would be, in all 
>>>sincerity, shipping millions off to the Gulag.   Good boys in 
>>>the twentieth century have done more evil t han bad boys could 
>>>imagine.   That is the lesson of the century which we refuse to 
>>>learn.

[...]
>>The big guy in charge in Nazi Germany was Adolph Hitler,
>>Mr. Whitaker, not Joseph Stalin.  You seem to be confusing
>>the Soviet Union and its political regime with Nazi Germany's,
>>which was certainly not a cookie-cutter replica of the USSR's.

>>It wasn't the "communists" who rounded up Jews in Nazi Germany,
>>Mr. Whitaker, but the Nazis.  In fact, communists were another
>>of the Nazis' targeted groups.

[...]

>   My point was that there were a LOT of awfult hings in this 
>century besides the Jews in Nazi Germany.  I am not surprised 
>that you are totally unable even to imagine that, as you say 
>here.

This response is classic Bob Whitaker.  You screwed up and
confused Hitler and Stalin, and Germany under the NSDAP with
the Soviet Union under Stalin.  Rather than admit your error,
you procede to chastise me for narrowmindedness and ignorance.

It is an interesting "debating" technique, Mr. Whitaker.
This exchange says little about what I do or do not know 
about 20th century world history, except that I, unlike you, do not 
confuse Stalin with Hitler, or the Soviet Union with Nazi Germany.  
It says nothing whatsoever about what, if any, relative status
in the annals of evil I assign to Hitler, Stalin, or other
political leaders.

It does, however, indicate that you have so fragile an ego 
you cannot admit error, that you write (and think?) incoherently,
and that your mind works like a steel trap.  Unfortunately,
the trap seems to predate stainless steel, and appears to
be permanently and irrevocably rusted shut. 




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 07:49:58 PDT 1996
Article: 57419 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: McFee's abject begging
Date: 14 Aug 1996 16:46:02 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4usvsa$o26@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote (in reply to
Gord McFee's whining about ZOG perks):


>Finstenstein has the condo - believe me, she earned it. You can't have 
>it, period.  You could have contested it, and walked upon the River - 
>but you knew that.


Tee hee hee.  I knew I'd get my way.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 07:49:59 PDT 1996
Article: 57443 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 14 Aug 1996 14:49:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]


>>Well Mr. Whitaker, every time I have tried to engage you in discussion
>>of your "ideas", or get clarification from you about what your "ideas"
>>are, all I get is the rather demented sounding "Mommy Professor" line.
>>I notice, too, that you're retrenching into the clone drone once more,
>>as well.

>>I asked you to explain your reasoning.  You connect those who are
>>not racist and are willing to allow "non-whites" to stay in North
>>America as well as to admit additional "non-white" immigrants, to
>>the destruction of what you call "the white race".  My question was
>>a sincere one.  It does not follow, to me, how the one leads to
>>the other.  But rather than explain this, you just resort to the
>>same old clumsy evasive manoeuvres and generalised slurs.


>Oh, Lord, the old Sincere DUHH! gambit!
>Can't you people come up with ANYTHING that wasn't used up 
>three decades ago?


Gambit?  You flatter yourself if you actually think that you
express yourself so lucidly here that only a moron could fail
to follow your "reasoning".  But that isn't what you're about
it, is it, Mr. Whitaker.  No, you just want to rant and rave
irrationally and unintelligibly, to never have to explain your
viewpoints or arguments, and to call anyone who asks for clarification
or an explanation or, gasp!, who disagrees with you, a clone who has
been duped by education.

I don't know what immigration policy was in the US 3 decades ago
(I'm not old enough to be aware of it).  I don't know for sure
what it was 3 decades ago in my own country, except that serious
immigration by non-Europeans and Jews postdates that.  Are you
confusing immigration with the changes made during and in the
aftermath of the civil rights movement, Mr. Whitaker?

Psychic prediction - you won't answer my question.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 07:49:59 PDT 1996
Article: 57444 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 14 Aug 1996 14:51:51 GMT
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

[...]

>    I thought you were telling me again that you didn't 
>understand what I was talking about -- the old DUHH! routine.  
>You use it a lot, you know.


If you were either capable of or willing to make the effort
to express yourself intelligibly, Mr. Whitaker, I might not
need to ask you what you are talking about so often.  But of
course, when people can't understand what you're raving about,
in your mind it means that they're idiots, doesn't it, Mr.
Whitaker.  It couldn't possibly mean that you're not getting
your point across.  No wonder you spun out in academia.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 10:10:39 PDT 1996
Article: 39563 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Girls just wanna have fun was Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 14 Aug 1996 20:06:35 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <4ugcth$ak8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> - Laura Finsten
>9 Aug 1996 22:08:49 GMT writes:

>:>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

[...]

>:>>PS... Finstenovstein has returned Britannia, and she is once
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>:>For some reason, this reminds me of a cocktail.  I was sure
>:>it was called a margarita, though.  But with a twist.  A very
>:>bizarre twist.

>You are *really* starting to annoy me, Finstenvay.  I expect some hard,
>fatbroad *NEWS* real soon.  Not my fault I have a day job and I am getting
>tired of being pilloried because of it.


Don't pout, McFeerenken, it really is not becoming.  I'm afraid I can't
give you any fatbroad news at all.  I've been demoted, quite decisively
and, I thought, rather heartlessly, to the lowly status of an ersatz
fatbroad.  And *I* sure didn't put the twist in the margarita.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 13:37:23 PDT 1996
Article: 57530 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Girls just wanna have fun was Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 14 Aug 1996 20:06:35 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <4ugcth$ak8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> - Laura Finsten
>9 Aug 1996 22:08:49 GMT writes:

>:>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

[...]

>:>>PS... Finstenovstein has returned Britannia, and she is once
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>:>For some reason, this reminds me of a cocktail.  I was sure
>:>it was called a margarita, though.  But with a twist.  A very
>:>bizarre twist.

>You are *really* starting to annoy me, Finstenvay.  I expect some hard,
>fatbroad *NEWS* real soon.  Not my fault I have a day job and I am getting
>tired of being pilloried because of it.


Don't pout, McFeerenken, it really is not becoming.  I'm afraid I can't
give you any fatbroad news at all.  I've been demoted, quite decisively
and, I thought, rather heartlessly, to the lowly status of an ersatz
fatbroad.  And *I* sure didn't put the twist in the margarita.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 15:11:45 PDT 1996
Article: 27313 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 14:28:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <4uvc5k$t6d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4ucved$d6d@molokini.conterra.com> <320A0C11.3C79@intersurf.com> <4ud75a$itu@molokini.conterra.com> <4ue59v$6vr@chaos.dac.neu.edu> <4ugi91$4hm@molokini.conterra.com> <4uo35q$5f7@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uqhs9$krb@molokini.conterra.com> <4usqsq$jcg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> 
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bubbles@boing.com (Bungee Boy) wrote:
>In article <4usqsq$jcg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> bob whitaker  wrote:
 
>> [...]
 
>> >     At the publically supported liberal seminaries we call 
>> >universities, what Mommy Professor teaches these clones is that 
>> >Hitler was uniquely evil, and he was evil only because he 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >opposed racial intermarriage.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
>> Wow, if this is what you learned about Hitler's regime in
>> history, Mr. Whitaker, you got a poor education.  It certainly
>> isn't what I have learned.  Do you think that he had twelve
>> million Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners and others
>> murdered just so that racial intermarriages would be less
>> frequent?  Do you think that he invaded and occupied most
>> of Europe in an effort to stop racial intermarriage?
 
>> >     I have pointed out ot clones that Hitler was a complete 
>> >totalitarian.  I then aask them if he would have been nicer if 
>> >he had a leftist or Stalinist totalitartian instead of a 
>> >racist.

[...]
 
>> Your ignorance and proclivity to stereotype your protoganists
>> here are truly phenomenal, Mr. Whitaker.  Once again, you imply
>> (incorrectly, I will add, although your neural functioning won't
>> be able to get a ganglion around that, I expect) that I consider 
>> Hitler to be the epitomy of evil.  And now you assume that whatever 
>> status I assign to his actions stems only from the racialist basis 
>> of many of his policies.  If this is the kind of "reasoning" based
>> on "evidence" that characterised your academic work, no wonder 
>> you are no longer a "daddy professor".

[...] 


>You are a liar. Mr. Whitaker did not say that Hitler was a nice person. >You knew that, yet you lied.


Help me out here, Bubbles.  Where, exactly, did I say that Mr. Whitaker
called Hitler a nice person?  I've underlined for you what Mr. Whitaker
*did* say about Hitler.  My response to him implied not that he was
adulating Hitler, but rather that he was, well, shall we say leaving
out a heck of a lot of stuff a lot nastier than the parts of the
Nuremberg laws that outlawed interracial marriage.  I think the term
is whitewashing.


>What is worse is that your entire life and your guilt-ridden, fearful,
>liberal political philosophy is a bigger and more dangerous lie, one 
>with little basis in fact and a great deal of basis in your personal 
>anti-white hatred and venom.


Sigh.  I am "white".  Some of my best friends are "white".  Why do you
think that a person who is against antisemitism must necessarily be
"anti-white"?  Can someone please explain to me why you think that
freedom and equality of opportunity under the law is finite, and that
giving these rights to some takes them away from others?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 15:14:51 PDT 1996
Article: 39572 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The liberal's premise:
Date: 14 Aug 1996 17:00:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 101
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"Ourobouros"  wrote:

[A selection of items for response only]


>10. They wholeheartedly believe in the UN Charter for 
>aboriginal rights.  Part of the UN Charter states that 
>racism (whether by race, gender, religion, or culture) 
>is unscientific, which is an unscientific statement in 
>itself.

Which UN charter is this, "Mr. Stone"?  Which article
of which charter are you claiming makes this statement?  

[...]


>As you can see, liberals are full of logical 
>contradictions, full of hypocrisy, and have trouble 
>fathoming the implications of their popular slogans.  
>It is small wonder why they are losing the respect of 
>the mass, why they go emotional bleeding-heart rants, 
>why they resort to emotion rather than logic (they only 
>have logical contradictions), and why they are so much 
>arguing against -- they never cease to amuse us White 
>supremacists by their stupidity.

Bleeding heart rants, emotional responses... hmmmm.  This
is the best example of an "emotional rant" I've seen here:

[from DejaNews; URL available upon request; emphasis added
in places; editing of irrelevant material]


Subject:      Re: Racist stereotypes
From:         p_stone@alchemy.co.nz (Ourobouros)
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Date:         1996/04/18
Message-Id:   <4l5e2q$s6@newsource.ihug.co.nz>
Distribution: inet
References:   <828208075snz@stellar.demon.co.uk> 
<828294792snz@drmac.demon.co.uk> <4kel7p$eo5@er7.rutgers.edu> 
<4khtmu$for@newsource.ihug.co.nz> <4ki16e$asd <4
Organization: Order of Alchemists
Newsgroups:   
uk.misc,uk.politics,soc.culture.intercultural,alt.discrimination,sci.philoso
phy.meta,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.theory

In article <4l0ja0$bae@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten 
 says:

>p_stone@alchemy.co.nz (Ourobouros) wrote:

{deletia}

[Emotional rant at fester's level]:

I don't happen to agree with his opinions.  My basic premise (to which
you keep dodging from) is why the fucking hell to we include a bastard
                                  ^^^^^^^
people like the Portuguese into the Caucasian race?  Ethiopians are also
of similar mixture, but are classified as Negroid.  Anthropology in
describing the races is bogus.  Their classification system is absurd.
It's no fucking wonder why the cranial index can not be a determiner of
        ^^^^^^^
race because you (pl.) are determined to throw just about anybody into
any bloody race.  Is it unreasonable to assume that a mulatto Portuguese
is going to have a different fucking skull shape from someone from
                             ^^^^^^^
Norway on the basis that the Portuguese has a different race in him?  I'm
fucking sick of your avoidance to what could be a very straightforward
^^^^^^^
point.  Now that I've decided to talk in your language (emotions) perhaps
we may finally have an answer fester on the subject of racial
classification?

Now please comprehend this fucking thought before dodging as you always
                           ^^^^^^^
do concerning race classifications.  It's no fucking wonder why bitches
                                             ^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^
like yourself cannot classify race according to biology.  It's no fucking
                                                                  ^^^^^^^
wonder why every attempt to classify race according to the stupid and
arbitrary rules of modern anthropology in determining race fails.
Biological classification of races could be quite simple if you would just
think for more than 1 nanosecond.   Of the top of my head, the ability to
absorb milk sugar as an adult increases with the increasing whiteness of
the base skin colour.  It is also a marked occurance amongst North Western
European and their descendents, indicating that it is a feature lost on
Slavs.  Now could this be a simple biological classification for race?
Yes I'm aware you get half-breeds that can absorb this, but I'm talking
about the greater occurrence of this phenomena.





"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 15:14:53 PDT 1996
Article: 39583 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 14:28:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bubbles@boing.com (Bungee Boy) wrote:
>In article <4usqsq$jcg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> bob whitaker  wrote:
 
>> [...]
 
>> >     At the publically supported liberal seminaries we call 
>> >universities, what Mommy Professor teaches these clones is that 
>> >Hitler was uniquely evil, and he was evil only because he 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >opposed racial intermarriage.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
>> Wow, if this is what you learned about Hitler's regime in
>> history, Mr. Whitaker, you got a poor education.  It certainly
>> isn't what I have learned.  Do you think that he had twelve
>> million Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners and others
>> murdered just so that racial intermarriages would be less
>> frequent?  Do you think that he invaded and occupied most
>> of Europe in an effort to stop racial intermarriage?
 
>> >     I have pointed out ot clones that Hitler was a complete 
>> >totalitarian.  I then aask them if he would have been nicer if 
>> >he had a leftist or Stalinist totalitartian instead of a 
>> >racist.

[...]
 
>> Your ignorance and proclivity to stereotype your protoganists
>> here are truly phenomenal, Mr. Whitaker.  Once again, you imply
>> (incorrectly, I will add, although your neural functioning won't
>> be able to get a ganglion around that, I expect) that I consider 
>> Hitler to be the epitomy of evil.  And now you assume that whatever 
>> status I assign to his actions stems only from the racialist basis 
>> of many of his policies.  If this is the kind of "reasoning" based
>> on "evidence" that characterised your academic work, no wonder 
>> you are no longer a "daddy professor".

[...] 


>You are a liar. Mr. Whitaker did not say that Hitler was a nice person. >You knew that, yet you lied.


Help me out here, Bubbles.  Where, exactly, did I say that Mr. Whitaker
called Hitler a nice person?  I've underlined for you what Mr. Whitaker
*did* say about Hitler.  My response to him implied not that he was
adulating Hitler, but rather that he was, well, shall we say leaving
out a heck of a lot of stuff a lot nastier than the parts of the
Nuremberg laws that outlawed interracial marriage.  I think the term
is whitewashing.


>What is worse is that your entire life and your guilt-ridden, fearful,
>liberal political philosophy is a bigger and more dangerous lie, one 
>with little basis in fact and a great deal of basis in your personal 
>anti-white hatred and venom.


Sigh.  I am "white".  Some of my best friends are "white".  Why do you
think that a person who is against antisemitism must necessarily be
"anti-white"?  Can someone please explain to me why you think that
freedom and equality of opportunity under the law is finite, and that
giving these rights to some takes them away from others?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 15:19:28 PDT 1996
Article: 78177 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 14:28:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bubbles@boing.com (Bungee Boy) wrote:
>In article <4usqsq$jcg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> bob whitaker  wrote:
 
>> [...]
 
>> >     At the publically supported liberal seminaries we call 
>> >universities, what Mommy Professor teaches these clones is that 
>> >Hitler was uniquely evil, and he was evil only because he 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >opposed racial intermarriage.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
>> Wow, if this is what you learned about Hitler's regime in
>> history, Mr. Whitaker, you got a poor education.  It certainly
>> isn't what I have learned.  Do you think that he had twelve
>> million Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners and others
>> murdered just so that racial intermarriages would be less
>> frequent?  Do you think that he invaded and occupied most
>> of Europe in an effort to stop racial intermarriage?
 
>> >     I have pointed out ot clones that Hitler was a complete 
>> >totalitarian.  I then aask them if he would have been nicer if 
>> >he had a leftist or Stalinist totalitartian instead of a 
>> >racist.

[...]
 
>> Your ignorance and proclivity to stereotype your protoganists
>> here are truly phenomenal, Mr. Whitaker.  Once again, you imply
>> (incorrectly, I will add, although your neural functioning won't
>> be able to get a ganglion around that, I expect) that I consider 
>> Hitler to be the epitomy of evil.  And now you assume that whatever 
>> status I assign to his actions stems only from the racialist basis 
>> of many of his policies.  If this is the kind of "reasoning" based
>> on "evidence" that characterised your academic work, no wonder 
>> you are no longer a "daddy professor".

[...] 


>You are a liar. Mr. Whitaker did not say that Hitler was a nice person. >You knew that, yet you lied.


Help me out here, Bubbles.  Where, exactly, did I say that Mr. Whitaker
called Hitler a nice person?  I've underlined for you what Mr. Whitaker
*did* say about Hitler.  My response to him implied not that he was
adulating Hitler, but rather that he was, well, shall we say leaving
out a heck of a lot of stuff a lot nastier than the parts of the
Nuremberg laws that outlawed interracial marriage.  I think the term
is whitewashing.


>What is worse is that your entire life and your guilt-ridden, fearful,
>liberal political philosophy is a bigger and more dangerous lie, one 
>with little basis in fact and a great deal of basis in your personal 
>anti-white hatred and venom.


Sigh.  I am "white".  Some of my best friends are "white".  Why do you
think that a person who is against antisemitism must necessarily be
"anti-white"?  Can someone please explain to me why you think that
freedom and equality of opportunity under the law is finite, and that
giving these rights to some takes them away from others?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 15:49:29 PDT 1996
Article: 57582 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 14:28:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <4uvc5k$t6d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bubbles@boing.com (Bungee Boy) wrote:
>In article <4usqsq$jcg@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> bob whitaker  wrote:
 
>> [...]
 
>> >     At the publically supported liberal seminaries we call 
>> >universities, what Mommy Professor teaches these clones is that 
>> >Hitler was uniquely evil, and he was evil only because he 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >opposed racial intermarriage.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
>> Wow, if this is what you learned about Hitler's regime in
>> history, Mr. Whitaker, you got a poor education.  It certainly
>> isn't what I have learned.  Do you think that he had twelve
>> million Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners and others
>> murdered just so that racial intermarriages would be less
>> frequent?  Do you think that he invaded and occupied most
>> of Europe in an effort to stop racial intermarriage?
 
>> >     I have pointed out ot clones that Hitler was a complete 
>> >totalitarian.  I then aask them if he would have been nicer if 
>> >he had a leftist or Stalinist totalitartian instead of a 
>> >racist.

[...]
 
>> Your ignorance and proclivity to stereotype your protoganists
>> here are truly phenomenal, Mr. Whitaker.  Once again, you imply
>> (incorrectly, I will add, although your neural functioning won't
>> be able to get a ganglion around that, I expect) that I consider 
>> Hitler to be the epitomy of evil.  And now you assume that whatever 
>> status I assign to his actions stems only from the racialist basis 
>> of many of his policies.  If this is the kind of "reasoning" based
>> on "evidence" that characterised your academic work, no wonder 
>> you are no longer a "daddy professor".

[...] 


>You are a liar. Mr. Whitaker did not say that Hitler was a nice person. >You knew that, yet you lied.


Help me out here, Bubbles.  Where, exactly, did I say that Mr. Whitaker
called Hitler a nice person?  I've underlined for you what Mr. Whitaker
*did* say about Hitler.  My response to him implied not that he was
adulating Hitler, but rather that he was, well, shall we say leaving
out a heck of a lot of stuff a lot nastier than the parts of the
Nuremberg laws that outlawed interracial marriage.  I think the term
is whitewashing.


>What is worse is that your entire life and your guilt-ridden, fearful,
>liberal political philosophy is a bigger and more dangerous lie, one 
>with little basis in fact and a great deal of basis in your personal 
>anti-white hatred and venom.


Sigh.  I am "white".  Some of my best friends are "white".  Why do you
think that a person who is against antisemitism must necessarily be
"anti-white"?  Can someone please explain to me why you think that
freedom and equality of opportunity under the law is finite, and that
giving these rights to some takes them away from others?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 15 18:57:06 PDT 1996
Article: 57609 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 14:15:23 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>bob whitaker  wrote:


[...]

>>>   My point was that there were a LOT of awfult hings in this 
>>>century besides the Jews in Nazi Germany.  I am not surprised 
>>>that you are totally unable even to imagine that, as you say 
>>>here.

>>This response is classic Bob Whitaker.  You screwed up and
>>confused Hitler and Stalin, and Germany under the NSDAP with
>>the Soviet Union under Stalin.  Rather than admit your error,
>>you procede to chastise me for narrowmindedness and ignorance.

>>It is an interesting "debating" technique, Mr. Whitaker.
>>This exchange says little about what I do or do not know 
>>about 20th century world history, except that I, unlike you, do not 
>>confuse Stalin with Hitler, or the Soviet Union with Nazi Germany.

>   You're right.  You clones h ave interchangable paragraphs, 
>and it is hard to remember which of the standard responses I 
>'ve hgeard for deacdes you gave this time.

Rather, it seems that you don't read peoples' responses to you
at all, or if your eyes actually pass over the written words,
their meaning doesn't penetrate the fog.  Instead, you just
rattle off one of your standard responses, whining about 
everyone else's ignorance and inability to think when all you
yourself can muster is yet another demonstration of your lack
of neural function.  You are a sad case, Mr. Whitaker.

>    OK, this time you did not pinpioint Hitler as the only true 
>evil as you clones do.   You always rush to say, well, you 
>meant Stalin, too, when it is brought up, but you never bring 
>it up, because it is of no use to the left.  In the 1960's, you 
>used to deny Stalin was bad at all, but the world caught up 
>with you on that.

Mr. Whitaker, have you followed this exchange at all?  I merely
corrected your error.  Period. End of story.  I have *never* 
claimed Hitler was the only true evil.  And I can assure you 
that I never denied that Stalin was bad in the 1960s.  That you
can claim to know what I may or may not have said about *anything*
during the 1960s is a clear demonstration of your own extreme
narrowmindedness and propensity to stereotype.

>     This time your obsesion with Jews makes you think I was 
>saying clones would report Jews to Nazis because they are 
>somehow anti-semitic.  

Huh??  What obsession with Jews would that be, Mr. Whitaker?
I do not pretend to understand nine tenths of your senseless
and incoherent blather.

>What I am saying is that an 
>establishment good boy will be a good boy in every society.  
>You or Kasiecki will be going through jeja view to find out who 
> can be exposed for having rqcial attitudes which do not 
>represent Politically Correct Good Thought and exposing them in 
>the future.   They're "racists", so,a s your fellow clone 
>pointed out, they should be ruined.

You really are confused, Mr. Whitaker.  On one level, I agree
with you that people whose own centres and core beliefs are
not strong have a tendency to go with the crowd, whatever
direction it moves in.  But to suggest that anyone who is
cognizant of the parallels between the NSDAP and contemporary
neo-Nazi ideologies is guilty of this is at best naive, Mr.
Whitaker, and at worst reflects the same kind of self-deception 
you accuse others of.

>     Why on earth do you think clones would not be doing the 
>same thing for Hitler or Stalin, rooting out Evil for them.  
>The Evil changes, but the good boys don't.

Perhaps because the ideological parallels of contemporary
white-power and white supremacist movements are with the Nazis,
Mr. Whitaker, rather than with Stalin.  Perhaps because the
symbols used by these organisations are the symbols of the
NSDAP.  Perhaps because many of them explicitly idolise Hitler
and despise Jews.  You either aren't very familiar with your
ideological bedmates or you attempting to appear disingenuous.
 
>>It says nothing whatsoever about what, if any, relative status
>>in the annals of evil I assign to Hitler, Stalin, or other
>>political leaders.

> The fact you are a clone and that the only evil you ever 
>mention is Hitler may have somethingto do with what I said.  As 
>I keep saying -- as I try to push the toothpaste back into the 
> tube -- you will mention Stalin, Mao, or the other leftists 
>after they are brought up, not before.

The only Maoist I've seen post here (Chairman Meow) didn't stick
around very long.  Too bad, it might have been an interesting
discussion.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 16 07:51:51 PDT 1996
Article: 57645 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Girls just wanna have fun was Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 14 Aug 1996 20:07:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <4ugcth$ak8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> - Laura Finsten
>9 Aug 1996 22:08:49 GMT writes:

>:>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

[...]

>:>>PS... Finstenovstein has returned Britannia, and she is once
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>:>For some reason, this reminds me of a cocktail.  I was sure
>:>it was called a margarita, though.  But with a twist.  A very
>:>bizarre twist.

>You are *really* starting to annoy me, Finstenvay.  I expect some hard,
>fatbroad *NEWS* real soon.  Not my fault I have a day job and I am getting
>tired of being pilloried because of it.


Don't pout, McFeerenken, it really is not becoming.  I'm afraid I can't
give you any fatbroad news at all.  I've been demoted, quite decisively
and, I thought, rather heartlessly, to the lowly status of an ersatz
fatbroad.  And *I* sure didn't put the twist in the margarita.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 16 11:12:11 PDT 1996
Article: 57746 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 17:36:21 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>    I thought you were telling me again that you didn't 
>understand what I was talking about -- the old DUHH! routine.  
>You use it a lot, you know.


Well, you are frequently unintelligible.  You blather
comprehensibly a lot, you know.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 16:04:07 PDT 1996
Article: 57981 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can Have Too Much Diversity
Date: 17 Aug 1996 21:01:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Stig  wrote:

>>Better be more selective in your reading; you seem to be filtering 
>>everything through a "racialist" lens that isn't warranted 90% of the 
>>time.


>    Excellently put.
>    I know it's very fashionable to study this stuff, but if 
>you know all about sixtreenth century African history and 
>Peruvian pottery, what have you got?


Yessirree, Mr. Whitaker, it is far better to pronounce forth
>from  ignorance and to scream about the politically correct
biases that make all scholarly knowledge biased, than to speak
>from  knowledge and have your preconceptions and stereotypes
shaken from the tree.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 16:04:08 PDT 1996
Article: 57982 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 17 Aug 1996 21:12:16 GMT
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>>>    I thought you were telling me again that you didn't 
>>>understand what I was talking about -- the old DUHH! routine.  
>>>You use it a lot, you know.

>>Well, you are frequently unintelligible.  You blather
>>comprehensibly a lot, you know.


>    I have noticed that the pro-whites never need to engage in 
>these catty little reassurance diaolgues with each other.

One too many already today, Mr. Whitaker, or do you not realise
that this "discourse" is between you and me?  Or have you now
joined the ranks of the "politically correct anti-whites"?

>    Politically Correct anti-whites need to reassure each 
>other, because they are the product of a sealed, hothouse 
>little world, whose silliness is such that its only defense is 
>to declare everyone else evil and out of touch.
>     Their little world is in deep doo-doo when Eng;lish 
>starts to be spoken, and their assertions are put together in 
>plain language.   They ave to hasten to tell each other that 
>that's just evil stuff.
>     If you put what they say together, it's sillly and it's 
>vile.  So they have to yell, DUHH!   They have been protected 
>from putting those things together in their hothouse, and 
>these tactics show it.
>      For example, it is a standard Politically Correct 
>argument that private schools do so much better beccause they 
>do not have to deal with problem cases.   Politically Correct 
>people also solidly back a program of dumping the ghetto into 
>suburdban public schools, because that, you see, is the ket to 
>education.
>    Mommy Professor stuff is full of such glaring 
>contradictions and absurdity, and these folks have to reassure 
>eachother that plain English is just an evil, inbred, 
>antisemitic, racist, antiintellectual plot to kill six million 
>Jews.


Thank you for this clear demonstration of my point. You blather
incomprehensibly, you are either so deluded or so egotistical
that you can't believe that what you knock off your keyboard
is inane blather (and I've compared it to your writing of more
than a decade ago, Mr. Whitaker, believe me, you've really
gone downhill).  If you ever had a point, there might be
something to talk about.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 16:04:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58025 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: listen up, Alec G.
Date: 16 Aug 1996 16:51:55 GMT
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

[...]

>My quoting was exact.  Hey, time for Yet Another Statistically Invalid
>Poll (YASIP).  The topic for today's YASIP is:

>Did anyone (except Mr Giwer) misunderstand me when I used the terms
>"10 millimeter" and "1 centimeter" interchangeably?


No, but it was really mean and unfair of you to try to trick the
self-proclaimed scientific supergenius with such a sneaky, devious
manoeuvre, Keith.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 17:54:40 PDT 1996
Article: 39762 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 15 Aug 1996 17:45:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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dodd@faribault.polaristel.net (Garrison Netzel) wrote:
>World Book Encyclopedia says there are only nine human races:

>European
>Asian
>African
>Indian
>American Indian
>Melanesion
>Micronesion
>Polynesian
>Native Australian

>	I believe "White" would fall into the "European" category, Laura.


Let's ask "Mr. Stone" about that.  Or Les Griswold.  Or even
Bob Whitaker.  I'd like to hear how he defines "white", since
he is so obsessed with it.

Europe includes Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Albania and the 
other Balkan states, Hungary, and lots lots more, no?  I'm going 
to make a psychic prediction:  Europeans are not all "white"
according to white power folks.  White power rangers can't even
all agree on who is and who is not "white".  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 17:54:41 PDT 1996
Article: 39764 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: thoughts from an ongoing debate . .
Date: 14 Aug 1996 03:07:08 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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ourhero@village.ios.com (our hero) wrote:



[...]

>>I noticed an interesting story on the cover of the village voice (which of
>>course I don't buy) but it said something to the effect that certain people
>>are immune to aids.  Just glancing at the cover, it seemed that both of the
>>men photographed where general nordic types - which brings me back to the
>>point I was trying to make the other day - yes I know that as you say the
>>various races are not truly seperate enough to qualify as different species
>>but for the sake of having different 'immunity pools' wouldn't it be a good
>>idea to develop these (ie: to develop different species of human beings) --
>>thus ensuring that if there where a disease such as aids - that it would not
>>wipe out the entire human race. 

Reading this crap, I'm beginning to think that it has already happened.
Minor problem, Mr. Ourhero.  Lots of diseases cross species boundaries.
And AIDS is an example of just such a disease.  There are all kinds of
diseases that humans can get from animals, many of them quite deadly.
Remember hearing about the mad cow disease fracaso in Britain only months
ago?  Selective breeding to produce different species of humans will not
ensure immunity from diseases that attack the other groups.


[remainder of ill-informed nonsense deleted]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 17:54:42 PDT 1996
Article: 39905 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news-relay.us.dell.com!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 18 Aug 1996 15:32:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:

[...]

>About Laura Finstein:

>Laura Finstein posts on alt.politics.white-power simply to harrass those 
>who are trying to make contributions to the discussion of white political >opportunities. She is not in the least interested in white persons; on the 
>contrary, her presence here is always to back bite and harrass.


Dear Anonymous Nobody,

You have misspelled my name.  Are you doing so intentionally, or do you
just read very poorly?

My heritage is Scottish, Irish and Norwegian.  I am, by the definitions 
I have seen floated here, as "white" as any of you.  So how you can 
conclude that I am "not the least interested in white persons" is beyond 
me.  Unless you are yet another of the witless wonders who thinks that
the only way to be pro- your own group however you define it is to be
against all the others whom you define yourself in opposition to.  This
is the way of the weak.






"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 17:54:43 PDT 1996
Article: 39966 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 18 Aug 1996 15:26:16 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <4v7cmo$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:

>In article <4uvnog$8pn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> dodd@faribault.polaristel.net (Garrison Netzel) wrote:
>> >World Book Encyclopedia says there are only nine human races:

 
>> >European
>> >Asian
>> >African
>> >Indian
>> >American Indian
>> >Melanesion
>> >Micronesion
>> >Polynesian
>> >Native Australian
 
>> >I believe "White" would fall into the "European" category, Laura.
 
 
>> Let's ask "Mr. Stone" about that.  Or Les Griswold.  Or even
>> Bob Whitaker.  I'd like to hear how he defines "white", since
>> he is so obsessed with it.
 
>> Europe includes Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Albania and the 
>> other Balkan states, Hungary, and lots lots more, no?  I'm going 
>> to make a psychic prediction:  Europeans are not all "white"
>> according to white power folks.  White power rangers can't even
>> all agree on who is and who is not "white".  


>Notice how Ms. Finstein uses quotation marks in referring to "whites," 
>as though she feels that there is something filthy about that word. I 
>would think that her eyes would be more than enough to determine whether 
>one was white or black or yellow or some other color or lack thereof.


Dear Nobody:

I put carriage returns into your text so that it doesn't run 5 screen-
widths across.

I use quotation marks when using the word "white" to describe a group
or people or an individual because it is used in ways that are
extremely imprecise, scientifically, by people.  You seem to be saying
that "you know one (a "white" person) when you see one".  Are Jews
"white", Nobody?  Is a person of predominantly British ancestry who
converts to Judaism "white"?  If not, how would you be able to identify
such a "non-white" person on the basis of their superficial appearance? 


>Question:

>Does Laura Finstein refer to "white" porcelain or a "white" stove with 
>"quotation marks" in order to make sure that others know that she thinks 
>that there is something bad about things that are "white"?

I don't think that there is something "bad about things that are "white"".
This is your misinterpretation of my words, and in no ways reflects my
beliefs.  I have found that a white bathroom floor is a nuisance because
every hair that goes astray when I pull out my hairdryer is glaringly
obvious against it, but there you go.

My point is that, despite what some think, there is no biologically
coherent clearcut group of people that coincides with all the different
definitions of the "white" race, when people will actually start defining
their terms.  And when the potential consequences of being decreed
"non-white" are so serious, such imprecision strikes me as a major
problem.

PS.  I at least have the courage to use my real name.  You could perhaps
have the courtesy to spell it correctly.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 19 18:07:30 PDT 1996
Article: 35029 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news-relay.us.dell.com!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 18 Aug 1996 15:32:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:

[...]

>About Laura Finstein:

>Laura Finstein posts on alt.politics.white-power simply to harrass those 
>who are trying to make contributions to the discussion of white political >opportunities. She is not in the least interested in white persons; on the 
>contrary, her presence here is always to back bite and harrass.


Dear Anonymous Nobody,

You have misspelled my name.  Are you doing so intentionally, or do you
just read very poorly?

My heritage is Scottish, Irish and Norwegian.  I am, by the definitions 
I have seen floated here, as "white" as any of you.  So how you can 
conclude that I am "not the least interested in white persons" is beyond 
me.  Unless you are yet another of the witless wonders who thinks that
the only way to be pro- your own group however you define it is to be
against all the others whom you define yourself in opposition to.  This
is the way of the weak.






"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 20 07:25:35 PDT 1996
Article: 58403 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 20 Aug 1996 01:16:28 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>slking@husc7.harvard.edu (Stewart King) wrote:


>>I actually think he meant these as two separate examples - if they were in
>>Germany, they would follow the Nazis, and if they were in Russia, they
>>would follow Stalin.  

>>Why he's not making more of an effort to clarify this I don't know.

[This is bwhit himself, my attributions are screwed up, too]:

>   The reason is simple.  Either the clones genuinely don't 
>understand a concept as simple as this, in which case I will 
>continue to talk over their headds to theose who can read, or 
>they are doing the DUHH! bit.
>    It is very hard to tell whether clones are being tactically 
>dense or genuinely dense.


Yes, Stewart, I agree with you (and Mr. Whitaker) that I misread his
original statement.  I should know better than to try to make sense
of his tortured syntax and obscure semantics when I am tired.

I, however, suspect that he would prefer to berate his detractors
for inconsequential things than clarify and then have to address
the issues of substance.

Just my opinion, of course.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 20 08:41:03 PDT 1996
Article: 40086 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 20 Aug 1996 01:26:09 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>In article <4v5d0h$bg2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> bob whitaker  wrote:
 
>> >See my reply above to Fenstin.
>> >    How can somebody with such a unique name keep repeating 
>> >such tiresome, standard and packaged comments?
 

>> Your reply to me didn't answer the question, Mr. Whitaker.
>> I suspect you know that.  Have you fried your brain, or just
>> become extremely lazy, intellectually? I'm genuinely curious.



>Laura Finstein passively trolls the alt.politics.white-power newsgroups. 
>Although she has no other interest than in destroying any semblance of 
>white power advocacy, she maintains her right to destroy these newsgroup 
>discussions and to participate as a squalling collie bitch, as she continues 
>to pick the flesh from the apwp bones until they stick in her wimbly craw 
>and cause her pelican beak to flip fishlike and flappy on the estuaries of 
>rhetorical innuendoes.

Wow, that's a whole bunch of really mixed metaphors.  Quite the image
you've conjured up there, Mr/Ms Nobody.

You still haven't learned that your newsreader requires you to do a
hard return (you know, push the return/enter key) at the end of each
line, or it just runs on and on forever, off the screen, and if anyone wants to read what you've written they have to keep scrolling=
 over.  And frankly, you haven't said anything that's worth the trouble.

Oh yeah, you're still not spelling my name correctly.  But I expect
you know that.  Most people spell it wrong.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 20 08:41:05 PDT 1996
Article: 40087 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 20 Aug 1996 01:30:36 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]


>You wouldn't have noticed, but I haven't said anything 
>unpleasant about nonwhites, only about white turncoats like 
>you.

Hmmmmmm.  Turncoats.  Turncoats get the name from turning their
uniform coats inside-out and doing what, Mr. Whitaker?  Going
over to the enemy, I thought.  Am I wrong about the etymology
of the word?  I assume that the phrase implies that the ones
to whom the said coats switch their allegiance are the enemy.
Otherwise they'd just be, well, making a fashion statement or
something, wouldn't they Mr. Whitaker? 

>    You Politically Correct types are the ones who explain all 
>disagreement with the word "Hate", since that is to you a 
>sufficient motive for action.

I am not about to concede your point.  But what word or words
would you use to describe your feelings about all the folks
you would like to forcibly deport?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 20 08:50:15 PDT 1996
Article: 35181 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 20 Aug 1996 01:26:09 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4vb47h$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>In article <4v5d0h$bg2@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten  wrote:

>> bob whitaker  wrote:
 
>> >See my reply above to Fenstin.
>> >    How can somebody with such a unique name keep repeating 
>> >such tiresome, standard and packaged comments?
 

>> Your reply to me didn't answer the question, Mr. Whitaker.
>> I suspect you know that.  Have you fried your brain, or just
>> become extremely lazy, intellectually? I'm genuinely curious.



>Laura Finstein passively trolls the alt.politics.white-power newsgroups. 
>Although she has no other interest than in destroying any semblance of 
>white power advocacy, she maintains her right to destroy these newsgroup 
>discussions and to participate as a squalling collie bitch, as she continues 
>to pick the flesh from the apwp bones until they stick in her wimbly craw 
>and cause her pelican beak to flip fishlike and flappy on the estuaries of 
>rhetorical innuendoes.

Wow, that's a whole bunch of really mixed metaphors.  Quite the image
you've conjured up there, Mr/Ms Nobody.

You still haven't learned that your newsreader requires you to do a
hard return (you know, push the return/enter key) at the end of each
line, or it just runs on and on forever, off the screen, and if anyone wants to read what you've written they have to keep scrolling=
 over.  And frankly, you haven't said anything that's worth the trouble.

Oh yeah, you're still not spelling my name correctly.  But I expect
you know that.  Most people spell it wrong.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 20 08:50:17 PDT 1996
Article: 35182 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!cornellcs!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 20 Aug 1996 01:30:36 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40087 alt.skinheads:35182

bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]


>You wouldn't have noticed, but I haven't said anything 
>unpleasant about nonwhites, only about white turncoats like 
>you.

Hmmmmmm.  Turncoats.  Turncoats get the name from turning their
uniform coats inside-out and doing what, Mr. Whitaker?  Going
over to the enemy, I thought.  Am I wrong about the etymology
of the word?  I assume that the phrase implies that the ones
to whom the said coats switch their allegiance are the enemy.
Otherwise they'd just be, well, making a fashion statement or
something, wouldn't they Mr. Whitaker? 

>    You Politically Correct types are the ones who explain all 
>disagreement with the word "Hate", since that is to you a 
>sufficient motive for action.

I am not about to concede your point.  But what word or words
would you use to describe your feelings about all the folks
you would like to forcibly deport?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 20 10:55:34 PDT 1996
Article: 58465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FORGERY ALERT was Re: Jews Run Everything
Date: 20 Aug 1996 01:04:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4vb2up$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4uutoa$fab@news.ios.com> <4uvjec$pg5@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4v6tcp$26k@access5.digex.net> <4v7tgs$ge6@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert) wrote:
>THIS BEARS REPEATING.  The notes supposedly by EPSTEIN@ISRAEL.COM are
                                                ^^^^^^^
>actually from IOS.COM, home of Bobby Huber:


Actually, that was "Epstien", a dead giveaway, if ever I saw one,
that the name, at least, was made up.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 22 12:47:37 PDT 1996
Article: 40400 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 22 Aug 1996 00:01:31 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4vg80r$84l@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vd6l8$ac3@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40400 alt.skinheads:35408

bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>>I am not about to concede your point.  But what word or words
>>would you use to describe your feelings about all the folks
>>you would like to forcibly deport?

[...]

>   These deportations came out of your own fevered brain.
[...]
>    None of this has anything to do with deportations.   Give 
>my race the right to exist and its part in space settlement in 
>some unmixed colonies, that would do nicely.

How are you going to get "unmixed" space for your "white colonies"
without deporting, evicting or otherwise forcibly removing the
"nonwhites" there now?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 22 13:43:27 PDT 1996
Article: 35408 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 22 Aug 1996 00:01:31 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4vg80r$84l@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vd6l8$ac3@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40400 alt.skinheads:35408

bob whitaker  wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>>bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>>I am not about to concede your point.  But what word or words
>>would you use to describe your feelings about all the folks
>>you would like to forcibly deport?

[...]

>   These deportations came out of your own fevered brain.
[...]
>    None of this has anything to do with deportations.   Give 
>my race the right to exist and its part in space settlement in 
>some unmixed colonies, that would do nicely.

How are you going to get "unmixed" space for your "white colonies"
without deporting, evicting or otherwise forcibly removing the
"nonwhites" there now?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 23 11:38:05 PDT 1996
Article: 59116 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wagner.spc.videotron.ca!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.megalink.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,alt.flame
Subject: Re: Jews Want To Censor The Department Of Justice
Date: 16 Aug 1996 13:49:40 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4v1u9k$d4c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Ira  wrote:
     ^^^^^^^

> Fuck you you anti semite.


You might be a more successful troll if you spelled your
"name" correctly.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 23 13:55:03 PDT 1996
Article: 40501 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!intac!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 21 Aug 1996 23:59:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <4vg7sv$84l@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ve4rj$2qe@basement.replay.com> <4vfbhh$rle@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40501 alt.skinheads:35528

bob whitaker  wrote:
>nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>>In article <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
>> wrote:

>>> bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>>> >You wouldn't have noticed, but I haven't said anything 
>>> >unpleasant about nonwhites, only about white turncoats like 
>>> >you.
 
>>> Hmmmmmm.  Turncoats.  Turncoats get the name from turning their
>>> uniform coats inside-out and doing what, Mr. Whitaker?  Going
>>> over to the enemy, I thought. 


>     Poor Finsten!   She cannot understand the word "white".  
>She demanded at least half a dozen times that I explain the  
>term "anti-white white"(  That was a toughie!).   Now she is 
>mystified by the term turncoat.

I see that my point escaped you.  You have said elsewhere that
you don't have any anomosity toward "non-whites", and you do
not consider them to be your enemy.  Your use of the word
"turncoat" to describe people who don't share you views, though,
suggests that you do indeed view "whites" who disagree with you
as siding with the enemy - "non-whites".  In other words, your
choice of words here suggests that what you have said elsewhere
is not the whole truth and not nothing but the truth.

[...]

> Am I wrong about the etymology
>>> of the word?  I assume that the phrase implies that the ones
>>> to whom the said coats switch their allegiance are the enemy.
>>> Otherwise they'd just be, well, making a fashion statement or
>>> something, wouldn't they Mr. Whitaker? 

>>This is a facetious argumentation. It goes in circles. You pretend to be
>>ignorant of the term "turn coat" in order to make a seemingless trivial
>>point at best. Please use your nicotine patch.

You think it is a trivial point.  I think it points up your hypocrisy
and inconsistency.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 23 14:06:12 PDT 1996
Article: 35528 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!intac!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 21 Aug 1996 23:59:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <4vg7sv$84l@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4ve4rj$2qe@basement.replay.com> <4vfbhh$rle@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40501 alt.skinheads:35528

bob whitaker  wrote:
>nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>>In article <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
>> wrote:

>>> bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>>> >You wouldn't have noticed, but I haven't said anything 
>>> >unpleasant about nonwhites, only about white turncoats like 
>>> >you.
 
>>> Hmmmmmm.  Turncoats.  Turncoats get the name from turning their
>>> uniform coats inside-out and doing what, Mr. Whitaker?  Going
>>> over to the enemy, I thought. 


>     Poor Finsten!   She cannot understand the word "white".  
>She demanded at least half a dozen times that I explain the  
>term "anti-white white"(  That was a toughie!).   Now she is 
>mystified by the term turncoat.

I see that my point escaped you.  You have said elsewhere that
you don't have any anomosity toward "non-whites", and you do
not consider them to be your enemy.  Your use of the word
"turncoat" to describe people who don't share you views, though,
suggests that you do indeed view "whites" who disagree with you
as siding with the enemy - "non-whites".  In other words, your
choice of words here suggests that what you have said elsewhere
is not the whole truth and not nothing but the truth.

[...]

> Am I wrong about the etymology
>>> of the word?  I assume that the phrase implies that the ones
>>> to whom the said coats switch their allegiance are the enemy.
>>> Otherwise they'd just be, well, making a fashion statement or
>>> something, wouldn't they Mr. Whitaker? 

>>This is a facetious argumentation. It goes in circles. You pretend to be
>>ignorant of the term "turn coat" in order to make a seemingless trivial
>>point at best. Please use your nicotine patch.

You think it is a trivial point.  I think it points up your hypocrisy
and inconsistency.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 23 17:05:52 PDT 1996
Article: 40520 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:23:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4vl7h8$vp@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40520 alt.skinheads:35540

Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote to Bob Whitaker:

[...]

>> I see that my point escaped you.  You have said elsewhere that
>> you don't have any anomosity toward "non-whites", and you do
>> not consider them to be your enemy.  Your use of the word
>> "turncoat" to describe people who don't share you views, though,
>> suggests that you do indeed view "whites" who disagree with you
>> as siding with the enemy - "non-whites".  In other words, your
>> choice of words here suggests that what you have said elsewhere
>> is not the whole truth and not nothing but the truth.

[...]

>Ridiculous. The set "anti-Whites" overlaps both sets "Whites" and 
>"non-Whites." This is implicit in Mr. Whitaker's statement.

I'll certainly agree with you that much of this ridiculous.  It at
times astonishes me that adults engage in such absurd "discussion",
me included.

>Therefore, a "White turncoat" is one who joins the anti-Whites. Nowhere 
>has Mr. Whitaker stated that all non-Whites are anti-White.

Ah, so one doesn't have to be pro-anything to be "anti-White"?  In that
case, I sure would like to have an explanation of what constitutes
"anti-White", if it isn't just being anti-anti-immigrationist, as
Mr. Whitaker seems to contend.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 09:50:25 PDT 1996
Article: 40528 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 01:37:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <4vj212$osq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>In article <4vbp69$ef@gyda.ifi.uio.no>, christop@ifi.uio.no (Christopher
>Henrik Lund) wrote:

>> One *very* good reason to put quotation marks around the word "white", when
>> used to describe people, is that there is no clear boundry between "white" and
>> "nonwhite". In other words, the term is used arbitrarily. Even those idiot
>> "white power" activists are incapable of giving a good definition of "white".
>> Thus the quotation marks. The same applies to the word "black", btw.


>Coffee cannot be defined either. Yet we know it when we see it and taste of it.

Actually, this isn't true.  Coffee has a distinctive "chemical signature",
and it can be identified by analysis of its trace elements.

But I hear you.  It's that old saw, everybody knows a "white"/Jew/whatever
when they see one.  Uh huh.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 09:50:27 PDT 1996
Article: 40534 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations around White
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:38:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4vl8ch$vp@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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dodd@faribault.polaristel.net wrote:

>     Don't confuse nationality with race, Laura.  There are tens of 
>thousands of nationalities in the world, yet there are only nine races.  
>Example:  If a Nigerian were to marry an Angolan (assuming they are both 
>black), that wouldn't be an "interracial" marriage.  Likewise, if an 
>Italian were to marry a German (assuming they are both white), that 
>wouldn't be an "interracial" marrige either.
>     Do you understand?  National and political boundries have no bearing 
>on a person's race.  A Minnesotan marrying a New Yorker would not be an 
>interracial marrige either.
>     Spanish, Portugese, Italian, German, Albanian, Angolan, Nigerian, 
>Rwandan, Botswanan <-- just a few NATIONALITIES.
>     European, Asian, African, Indian, American Indian, Melanesian, 
>Micronesian, Polynesian, Native Australian  <-- the ONLY NINE RACES.
 
>     Are we clear?

I don't know about you, but I'm clear.  I understand quite well the
difference between "nationality" and "race".  What is your source,
by the way, for these nine "races"?  I've seen numbers that range from
1, to 3, to 5, to dozens or even scores.

My question was whether, generally speaking, southern and southeastern
Europeans are considered "white" by white power rangers.  A lot of
Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Hungarian, Albanian and other
immigrants and their descendants might like to know.  I'd just like
a straight answer.  Your little list of nine races suggests that, in
your opinion, they must be, since they clearly aren't any of the
others.  Are we all agreed?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 09:50:28 PDT 1996
Article: 40535 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:26:01 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>Check the library, stupid.  Just because you're used to talking 
>out of your ass doesn't mean I do.


But hey, fellas, make sure you don't mention the titles of any
books you come across that Mr. Whitaker wrote or edited.  Cuz
if you do, he'll go into a real snit and start raving about what
sleazy tactics you use.

By the way, Mr. Whitaker, just because you could write intelligibly
15-20 years ago doesn't mean that what you post here is 
intelligible.  Believe me, I've compared the two.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 09:50:29 PDT 1996
Article: 40577 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 01:30:10 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 32
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

[...]

>The White race consists of the descendants of those people who replaced 
>the Neanderthals in Europe and surrounding territories, and who did not 
>mix with other races subsequently. This would encompass the founding 
>stock of all European nationalities, as well as those of the same race 
>who have occupied other territories.

Using that 35 year old anthropology by Carleton Coon again, Mr. Strom?
Do you have any idea how much work has been done on Neanderthal and
early Homo sapiens sapiens fossils and archaeological remains since
Coon's heyday?  Are you at all familiar with the evidence from human
population genetics in Europe that bears on the issue of the history
of population movements?

Who were the people who replaced the Neanderthals in Europe?  Were
they significantly different, biologically, from the people who 
replaced the Neanderthals of the Middle East?  If so, what is your
evidence?  If not, does that mean that the people of the Middle East
are also "white"?  What evidence is there to support the argument that
the Neanderthals were completely replaced (outcompeted into extinction,
I assume you mean by this) rather than that they were absorbed
(miscegenated) into the later population of H.sapiens sapiens?

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 09:50:30 PDT 1996
Article: 40602 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:20:09 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <4vl7a9$vp@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

[everything preceding deleted because what follows doesn't really
seem to follow]

>Jews argue endlessly about who is a "real" Jew, but that doesn't stop 
>them from making their racial state one of the most powerful on the 
>planet, with many billions provided every year by the White suckers. Nor 
>does it stop them from funding and operating more than 400 Jewish 
>organizations in the United States alone, almost any one of which is 
>more heavily funded than the entire pro-White movement.

What on earth does this have to do with the discussion of how you
folks define who is "white" and who is not?  Why is there so much
prevarication over what must necessarily be a fundamental question
for your ideology to be implemented?


>Those who have the will and ability to successfully survive as a people 
>will define that people. That is the only definition necessary, beyond 
>the obviously useful taxonomic divisions of which _homo sapiens 
>europaeus_ is one. If enough Europeans take the actions necessary to 
>preserve their race, their race will be preserved. If not, it will 
>vanish as the trilobites and mammoths did before it.

Homo sapiens euopaeus??????  You are relying on 1930s anthropology,
aren't you?  Or 1930s ideas that were still finding their way into
print in a few obscure places in the early 60s.  The simple fact of
the matter, Mr. Strom, is that no palaeoanthropologist or human
biologist recognises the existence of "Homo sapiens europaeus" in
1996, and none has for quite some time.  I'd be happy to talk to
you about why that is so, except that I doubt that you're interested.

[...]

>Just for fun, though, let's examine the anti-White kooks' attempt to 
>split Whites into sub-racial factions. (Today we will leave aside their 
>much more heavily-promoted attempt to split Whites into sexual and 
>sexual-behavior factions.)

You don't seem to understand - *you* are the one(s) intent on splitting
the human species into a series of pseudo-biological "factions".  I asked
about southern and southeastern Europeans because I recalled Lester
Griswold's horror at the thought of Italians being "white".  A number
of other white power rangers seem to have the same kind of problem
with darker complected southern Europeans.  Why don't you just answer
the question, Mr. Strom?  Are all those southern and southeastern
European folks "white", or aren't they?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 10:13:42 PDT 1996
Article: 35540 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:23:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote to Bob Whitaker:

[...]

>> I see that my point escaped you.  You have said elsewhere that
>> you don't have any anomosity toward "non-whites", and you do
>> not consider them to be your enemy.  Your use of the word
>> "turncoat" to describe people who don't share you views, though,
>> suggests that you do indeed view "whites" who disagree with you
>> as siding with the enemy - "non-whites".  In other words, your
>> choice of words here suggests that what you have said elsewhere
>> is not the whole truth and not nothing but the truth.

[...]

>Ridiculous. The set "anti-Whites" overlaps both sets "Whites" and 
>"non-Whites." This is implicit in Mr. Whitaker's statement.

I'll certainly agree with you that much of this ridiculous.  It at
times astonishes me that adults engage in such absurd "discussion",
me included.

>Therefore, a "White turncoat" is one who joins the anti-Whites. Nowhere 
>has Mr. Whitaker stated that all non-Whites are anti-White.

Ah, so one doesn't have to be pro-anything to be "anti-White"?  In that
case, I sure would like to have an explanation of what constitutes
"anti-White", if it isn't just being anti-anti-immigrationist, as
Mr. Whitaker seems to contend.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 10:13:43 PDT 1996
Article: 35559 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations around White
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:38:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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dodd@faribault.polaristel.net wrote:

>     Don't confuse nationality with race, Laura.  There are tens of 
>thousands of nationalities in the world, yet there are only nine races.  
>Example:  If a Nigerian were to marry an Angolan (assuming they are both 
>black), that wouldn't be an "interracial" marriage.  Likewise, if an 
>Italian were to marry a German (assuming they are both white), that 
>wouldn't be an "interracial" marrige either.
>     Do you understand?  National and political boundries have no bearing 
>on a person's race.  A Minnesotan marrying a New Yorker would not be an 
>interracial marrige either.
>     Spanish, Portugese, Italian, German, Albanian, Angolan, Nigerian, 
>Rwandan, Botswanan <-- just a few NATIONALITIES.
>     European, Asian, African, Indian, American Indian, Melanesian, 
>Micronesian, Polynesian, Native Australian  <-- the ONLY NINE RACES.
 
>     Are we clear?

I don't know about you, but I'm clear.  I understand quite well the
difference between "nationality" and "race".  What is your source,
by the way, for these nine "races"?  I've seen numbers that range from
1, to 3, to 5, to dozens or even scores.

My question was whether, generally speaking, southern and southeastern
Europeans are considered "white" by white power rangers.  A lot of
Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Hungarian, Albanian and other
immigrants and their descendants might like to know.  I'd just like
a straight answer.  Your little list of nine races suggests that, in
your opinion, they must be, since they clearly aren't any of the
others.  Are we all agreed?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 10:13:44 PDT 1996
Article: 35560 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!visi.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 21:26:01 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>Check the library, stupid.  Just because you're used to talking 
>out of your ass doesn't mean I do.


But hey, fellas, make sure you don't mention the titles of any
books you come across that Mr. Whitaker wrote or edited.  Cuz
if you do, he'll go into a real snit and start raving about what
sleazy tactics you use.

By the way, Mr. Whitaker, just because you could write intelligibly
15-20 years ago doesn't mean that what you post here is 
intelligible.  Believe me, I've compared the two.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Aug 24 10:13:45 PDT 1996
Article: 35605 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 23 Aug 1996 01:30:10 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <4vj1j2$osq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

[...]

>The White race consists of the descendants of those people who replaced 
>the Neanderthals in Europe and surrounding territories, and who did not 
>mix with other races subsequently. This would encompass the founding 
>stock of all European nationalities, as well as those of the same race 
>who have occupied other territories.

Using that 35 year old anthropology by Carleton Coon again, Mr. Strom?
Do you have any idea how much work has been done on Neanderthal and
early Homo sapiens sapiens fossils and archaeological remains since
Coon's heyday?  Are you at all familiar with the evidence from human
population genetics in Europe that bears on the issue of the history
of population movements?

Who were the people who replaced the Neanderthals in Europe?  Were
they significantly different, biologically, from the people who 
replaced the Neanderthals of the Middle East?  If so, what is your
evidence?  If not, does that mean that the people of the Middle East
are also "white"?  What evidence is there to support the argument that
the Neanderthals were completely replaced (outcompeted into extinction,
I assume you mean by this) rather than that they were absorbed
(miscegenated) into the later population of H.sapiens sapiens?

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Aug 25 13:13:44 PDT 1996
Article: 40811 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations around White
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:44:20 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4vpvt4$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Mr. Netzel, unlike you, I don't rely on encyclopedias for
my information about the biology of human race.  I would
suggest that you try some primary literature from human
biology itself.  A couple of titles that might get you
started are these:

Noel T. Boaz and Alan J. Almquist
1997 "Biological Anthropology: A Synthetic Approach to
Human Evolution."  Prentice Hall.

A.M. Bowcock et al.
1994  High resolution of human evolutionary trees with
polymorphic microsatellites.  "Nature" 368:455-457

L.L. Cavalli-Sforza, P. Menozzi, A. Piazza
1993  Demic expansions and human evolution.
"Science" 259:639-46.

G.A. Harrison, J.M. Tanner, D.R. Pilbeam, P.T. Baker
1988  "Human Biology: An Introduction to Human Evolution,
Variation, Growth, and Adaptability". 3rd ed.  Oxford UP.

S.J. Molnar
1992  "Races, Types and Ethnic Groups: The Problem of
Human Variation". 3rd ed.  Prentice Hall.

M. Stoneking
1993  DNA and recent human evolution.  
"Evolutionary anthropology" 60-73.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Aug 25 13:25:33 PDT 1996
Article: 35787 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations around White
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:44:20 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4vpvt4$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <840694311.6408@dejanews.com> <4vl8ch$vp@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vm2f7$ll1@cronkite.polaristel.net>
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Mr. Netzel, unlike you, I don't rely on encyclopedias for
my information about the biology of human race.  I would
suggest that you try some primary literature from human
biology itself.  A couple of titles that might get you
started are these:

Noel T. Boaz and Alan J. Almquist
1997 "Biological Anthropology: A Synthetic Approach to
Human Evolution."  Prentice Hall.

A.M. Bowcock et al.
1994  High resolution of human evolutionary trees with
polymorphic microsatellites.  "Nature" 368:455-457

L.L. Cavalli-Sforza, P. Menozzi, A. Piazza
1993  Demic expansions and human evolution.
"Science" 259:639-46.

G.A. Harrison, J.M. Tanner, D.R. Pilbeam, P.T. Baker
1988  "Human Biology: An Introduction to Human Evolution,
Variation, Growth, and Adaptability". 3rd ed.  Oxford UP.

S.J. Molnar
1992  "Races, Types and Ethnic Groups: The Problem of
Human Variation". 3rd ed.  Prentice Hall.

M. Stoneking
1993  DNA and recent human evolution.  
"Evolutionary anthropology" 60-73.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 09:05:40 PDT 1996
Article: 40828 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: to the whitaker clones
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:28:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4vpuvi$7b3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4vedd9$9r@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> <4vfine$nmt@basement.replay.com> <4vgren$c0m@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> <4vl85i$56n@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>      No, the clones are not my age, but they are in a way 
>older: in their youth, they are already cliche-repeating, tired 
>old Social Democrats.  They lack a sense of proportion and a 
>sense of humor.

Wow, Mr. Whitaker can not only read minds, but he can see through
the ethernet and tell, just by looking, how old the people
he calls "clones" are!!  That's amazing!  You know, if I hadn't
looked at the Library of Congress author data in one of his books,
on the basis of his posts, I would have guessed that bwhit was
about 18.  But he of course is omniscient.  Must be all those
burned out, embittered neurons that give him his "special" 
abilities.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 09:05:41 PDT 1996
Article: 40829 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Emma Goldman and her "revolution"
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:47:35 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4vq037$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <321A5090.6965@ix.netcom.com> <4vj3ub$osq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> 
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robk@rio.com (Rob Kowalewski) wrote:


>It's always a thrill to discover what will set these folks off. Maybe we
>should work on some incendiary e-mail address, eh?

Hi Rob.  I've been waiting for someone to decide that, because the
server I use has the unfortunate name "informer1", I must be a spy!!! 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 09:05:41 PDT 1996
Article: 40831 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Emma Goldman and her "revolution"
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:50:15 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4vq087$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <321A5090.6965@ix.netcom.com> <4vj3ub$osq@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <321E282A.4BCD@ix.netcom.com>
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Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:


>You are a bit confused on White vesus white, however. 

Then I suggest you take it up with Arthur LeBouthillier and Les Griswold,
if they ever return.  They are the ones who insisted on this distinction.

>No one capitalizes the word when describing the quality of incident or 
>reflected light, but I think it is just respectful to capitalize the 
>names of races and peoples, such as Black or Asian or White or Jewish. 

I always thought Jewish was capitalised because Catholic, Baptist,
Presbyterian etc etc etc are.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 09:05:42 PDT 1996
Article: 40847 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:13:58 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4vpu46$7b3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vd6l8$ac3@molokini.conterra.com> <4vg80r$84l@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vl1h7$2gh@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:


>WWAKE UP!
>There's nobody out there yet!  How the hell can anybody be 
>deported from where nobody is?  I isad SET UP white colonies!!!
>Jesus!   Are you really that dense?


Oh.  How silly of me.  In a cornfield in Iowa, or perhaps in
some nice pasturage in Montana.  Or maybe Mars.  Why didn't I
think of that....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 09:05:43 PDT 1996
Article: 40887 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Where is Les, was: Ten Questions for Les Griswold
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:31:49 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4vpv5l$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Rich Graves  wrote:

..
>Like a great many others, Les has resigned from "the movement." He is 
>still a racist, but he now opposes Pierce and the National Alliance.

>These are interesting times. I don't think Ken really understands what's 
>going on. That's fine -- he doesn't need to. He's doing the best he can 
>at the thing he's best at.


Rich, you've said this now several times.  Would you care to share
with others how you know that Les Griswold has resigned from the
National Alliance?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 09:14:33 PDT 1996
Article: 35805 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:13:58 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4vpu46$7b3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vd6l8$ac3@molokini.conterra.com> <4vg80r$84l@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vl1h7$2gh@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40847 alt.skinheads:35805

bob whitaker  wrote:


>WWAKE UP!
>There's nobody out there yet!  How the hell can anybody be 
>deported from where nobody is?  I isad SET UP white colonies!!!
>Jesus!   Are you really that dense?


Oh.  How silly of me.  In a cornfield in Iowa, or perhaps in
some nice pasturage in Montana.  Or maybe Mars.  Why didn't I
think of that....


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 13:14:13 PDT 1996
Article: 40901 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Emma Goldman and her "revolution"
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:45:54 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4vq002$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   Do you think Emma Goldman ever met a peasant, or that she 
>actually gave a damn about them?


Perhaps not.  She started her life in the United States as
a sweatshop worker.  Urban peasantry, perhaps?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 13:22:51 PDT 1996
Article: 35839 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.corpcomm.net!newstand.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Emma Goldman and her "revolution"
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:45:54 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4vq002$86d@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <321A5090.6965@ix.netcom.com>  <321CD7A8.6B68@ix.netcom.com>  <4vn8li$m4s@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:40901 alt.skinheads:35839

bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   Do you think Emma Goldman ever met a peasant, or that she 
>actually gave a damn about them?


Perhaps not.  She started her life in the United States as
a sweatshop worker.  Urban peasantry, perhaps?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 27 08:35:34 PDT 1996
Article: 40948 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Emma Goldman and her "revolution"
Date: 26 Aug 1996 14:33:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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reverend@iinet.net.au (peter wheeler) wrote:
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>I knew nothing about Emma Goldman when I began to use the quotation
>>in my signature.  I did buy the t-shirt though, because it gave me a
.....
>>times.  While I don't agree with a lot of what she stood for, as I
>>understand her ideals, she was a woman of principle who lived by her 
>>convictions, and I admire that a great deal.

>Hmm. So you admire Emma Goldman because she lived by her convictions
>and she had a set of priciples? I don't think thats really adequate
>now. By the same logic then you must also admire Adolph Hitler, who
>was a man of principle and lived by his convictions??

You are right, Mr. Wheeler.  My phrasing was poor and perhaps my
thinking on this is not very clear.  It would be more accurate to
say that I agree with some of her ultimate goals, if not with the
means by which she attempted to achieve those goals.  She was,
for example, concerned with the plight of the working poor,
something that I think arose from her experiences as a sweatshop
worker in New York when she first immigrated to the US.  She 
fought for equal rights for women at a time when women were not
allowed to vote, and were not considered to be people in the same
way that men were.  Women who waged that battle endured a lot of
ridicule and slander, but she endured.  I both admire and thank
her for that because the changes that she helped to bring about
have had a profound impact on my life.   

>And what do you mean when you say you 'understand her ideals'.
>Understanding and 'Giving the thumbs up' are pretty different you
>know! 

Yeah, I know.     


>I wonder if Begin danced when the Irgun and Stern Gang detonated their
>bombs?

I wonder who danced when the bomb went off in Oklahoma city last year
killing all those kids.  Goldman was not a Zionist, Mr. Wheeler, and
>from  what I gleaned from her collected papers, she was an atheist.
Why the supposed connection to Israel?  Her Jewishness doesn't seem
to have been a significant part of her identity as she saw herself,
so why is it such a big deal to anyone else?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 27 08:35:35 PDT 1996
Article: 40970 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: to the whitaker clones
Date: 26 Aug 1996 15:47:35 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4vsgun$hvn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4vedd9$9r@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> <4vfine$nmt@basement.replay.com> <4vgren$c0m@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> <4vl85i$56n@molokini.conterra.com> <321E7F19.1173@akamail.com> <4vplfp$gmn@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     I'm very disappointed.
>     I guess all we'll hear from American Indians is the One 
>Long Snivel you clones love so much.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^

Well you've sure got that down pat, Mr. Whitaker.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Aug 27 16:03:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60363 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Po' widdie Aryan chilluns
Date: 26 Aug 1996 15:39:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4vsgf2$hvn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <321a4bef.1970818@news.inetport.com> <4vimk1$e6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com><321a4bef.1970818@news.inetport.com> <4vimk1$e6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vkd4t$rvh@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vo607$2a4a@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:60363 alt.politics.white-power:41020

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <4vkd4t$rvh@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> - kmcvay@nizkor.org (Ken McVay
>OBC)23 Aug 1996 06:53:33 -0700 writes:

[...]

>:>Wow, are dem Joos powerful!

>Of course they are powerful.  Don't forget that they control the whole darn
>world, and the known universe, and have co-opted ZOG lackeys like you and me
>to do their dirty work.  You *do* know that, don't you McVayfeinsten?


Watch who you're calling a ZOG lackey, McFeevayovsteinison.  *I'm* no 
lackey, I'm a junior Elder of you-know-what.  And I've got the t-shirt
to prove it.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 08:53:27 PDT 1996
Article: 41055 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 25 Aug 1996 16:19:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4vpueq$7b3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4uuaui$8q9@cronkite.polaristel.net> <4uvnog$8pn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4la8$2j4@basement.replay.com>  <4vano2$lim@basement.replay.com> <4vbp69$ef@gyda.ifi.uio.no> <4vd5ue$ac3@molokini.conterra.com>  <4vl757$f8t@cronkite.polaristel.net>
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dodd@faribault.polaristel.net (Garrison Netzel) wrote:

[...]

>	I don't care whether or not he does, but I'll take your challenge.  
>White = European.

>	Straight from the World Book encyclopedia under "race":


[...]

>	In summary: The world's ONLY NINE RACES are: European, Asian, Indian, 
>American Indian, African, Melanesian, Micronesian, Polynesian, and Native 
>Australian (Aborigine).
>	For clarification:  The term "Indian" does not refer soley to the 
>country of India, but to an entire region shaded in purple on the race map.
>The same holds true for ALL the races.  No race is defined or constrained by 
>political boundaries.

>	Enough of a definition for you, Jeffrey?	


Alas, Mr. Netzel, I can't speak for Jeff Brown, but it doesn't fly for
me.  Not because I wish to be obstinate but because I can turn around
>from  my computer and pick up half a dozen books each with different
definitions, different defined groups labelled "races" and each with
cautious and detailed admonitions about the use of the biological
concept of race for defining human groups of people.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 11:53:12 PDT 1996
Article: 41125 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 28 Aug 1996 16:00:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <501qer$t28@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41125 alt.skinheads:36044

bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     Professor Carleton S. Coon was a member of the Harvard 
>faculty back when you had to be a real anthropologist, not just 
>an anti-racist apologist, to do that.  He was also Curator of 
>the Museum of Physical Anthropolgy at the University of 
>Pennsylvania, consultant to the Smithsonian, president of the 
>American Society of Physical Anthropologists until he was 
>forced to resign for heresy, and even had his own TV series for 
>a while.
>     I knew Carleton S. Conn, Profesor Catrleton S, Coon was a 
>friend of mine.  And you, Anonymous, are no Carleton S. Coon.
>      So there!


Tell me, Mr. Whitaker.  Would a "real anthropologist" today ignore
the current data from human population genetics?  Would a "real
anthropologist" today find some way, any way, to justify forcing
all the empirical evidence into pre-existing categories despite
the lack of any theoretical, analytical or empirical justification
for doing so?  Would a "real anthropologist" today pretend that
mitochondrial DNA and other biochemical techniques are useless,
because their results contradict preconceived ideas about human
evolutionary history and the relationships among living humans?
Would a "real anthropologist" today divorce herself from the
broader field of population genetics when studying humans and
focus instead of ill-defined groups called "races", even though
there is absolutely no good reason to do so?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 12:02:02 PDT 1996
Article: 36044 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 28 Aug 1996 16:00:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <501qer$t28@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41125 alt.skinheads:36044

bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     Professor Carleton S. Coon was a member of the Harvard 
>faculty back when you had to be a real anthropologist, not just 
>an anti-racist apologist, to do that.  He was also Curator of 
>the Museum of Physical Anthropolgy at the University of 
>Pennsylvania, consultant to the Smithsonian, president of the 
>American Society of Physical Anthropologists until he was 
>forced to resign for heresy, and even had his own TV series for 
>a while.
>     I knew Carleton S. Conn, Profesor Catrleton S, Coon was a 
>friend of mine.  And you, Anonymous, are no Carleton S. Coon.
>      So there!


Tell me, Mr. Whitaker.  Would a "real anthropologist" today ignore
the current data from human population genetics?  Would a "real
anthropologist" today find some way, any way, to justify forcing
all the empirical evidence into pre-existing categories despite
the lack of any theoretical, analytical or empirical justification
for doing so?  Would a "real anthropologist" today pretend that
mitochondrial DNA and other biochemical techniques are useless,
because their results contradict preconceived ideas about human
evolutionary history and the relationships among living humans?
Would a "real anthropologist" today divorce herself from the
broader field of population genetics when studying humans and
focus instead of ill-defined groups called "races", even though
there is absolutely no good reason to do so?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 12:59:27 PDT 1996
Article: 36054 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 28 Aug 1996 15:54:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <501q3m$t28@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41137 alt.skinheads:36054

Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

[...]

>Until then, we will have to use the admittedly imperfect classificatory 
>systems we have now in our efforts to protect the unique characteristics 
>of the various races.


It is important to note that there are *many* differing classifications
which attempt to simplify human biological variation by grouping people
into "races" or other ill-defined categories.  It is also important to
be aware that there is already available considerable *genetic* information
on variation with the human species, and that this information presently
indicates very clearly that *none* of the existing "racial" classifications
does justice to the *either* existing variation within individual groups
identified as "races" by any of these schemes, OR to the tremendous
degree of similarity among the various groups so identified.

[...]

>Until we are able to make comparisons at the DNA level, we will have to 
>make comparisons of morphological, chemical, and other currently 
>measurable differences between human subspecies.

You are misrepresenting the current state of human biology and human
population genetics by implying, erroneously, that there is broad
agreement that subspecies exist  This simply is *not true*.

>The fact that subspecies 
>boundaries are subject to disagreement among scientists and others does 
>not negate the existence of distinct human types with differing talents, 
>proclivities, and other qualities.

Once again, you are misrepresenting the current state of knowledge
and theory about human variation, based on studies of human population
genetics, physiological and morphological variation.  There is *no*
consensus that subspecies exist among living humans yet await
improved methods in order to be defined.  This is *false*.  Because
the basic premise is false, your following assertion that "distinct
human types" have "differing talents, proclivities, and other qualities"
is equally false.

[...]

>Something is happening, and it is called speciation. It manifests itself 
>through natural racial feelings. Those feelings (when expressed by White 
>people) are deemed "evil" by the current elite in the United States, 
>which opposes with all its might and deception the self-determination of 
>the European race anywhere in the world.

There is no evidence that speciation is occuring within the human species.
Hominids, at least from the time of Homo erectus a million and a half
years ago, have *always* been highly mobile, and high degrees of mobility
are one of the factors which operate very strongly *against* speciation.
Don't try to dress your racism up in biological clothing that doesn't
fit at all, Mr. Strom.

[...]

>You speculate plausibly, but even if your speculations are correct, it 
>remains indisputably true that one race replaced another in Europe. The 
>descendants of the better-adapted and little-changed conquerors still 
>live there today, and are known to all but quibblers as Europeans or 
>Whites. Neanderthal hybrids are confined mainly to the universities (so 
>named because they exist in a universe quite separate from the universe 
>of reality which the rest of us inhabit); otherwise they left little 
>trace and may be confidently declared to be extinct.

Gee, you said you didn't think I was a Neanderthal, but now you seem
to be lumping me in with Neanderthals, Mr. Strom, perhaps inadvertently.
Why are you arguing with Mr. Holman in such insulting terms, Mr. Strom?
In evolutionary terms, the process by which the physically distinctive
characteristics of Neanderthals disappeared from the fossil record
around 40,000 years ago is not at all well understood.  Your assumption
that Homo sapiens sapiens was "better adapted" may or may not be true.
Your assumption that Homo sapiens neanderthalensis was "outcompeted",
marginalised, and driven to extinction by H.s.s. may or may not be true.
As the geographical barriers that isolated H.s.n. populations in 
western Europe during the Wurm glaciation and led to the emergence of
their "extreme" physical characteristics dissolved, it may simply be
that gene flow between them and other Homo sapiens populations resumed.
This is a possibility that cannot yet be ruled out.

[...]

>The "Out of Africa" model may someday be proved correct -- or discarded 
>-- but all human races undoubtedly branched, somehow, from a common 
>ancestor. No one, except the wilfully ignorant, doubts that today. So 
>there is, of course, no such thing as a pure race if by that you mean one 
>utterly unrelated to other human races.

I can't speak for Mr. Holman, but this is not what I understand by the
term "pure race".  I understand this term to mean groups of people whose
biological connection to other human groups is so remote that they
are genuinely distinctive.  The concept of "pure races" implies not only
initial divergence but continued, pretty much complete reproductive
separation.  It implies separate genetic histories over a very long
period of time.  None of the existing evidence from human population
genetics supports the existence of "pure races" among humans.

>But the environment selects and molds and purifies in the sense of 
>creating new races and eventually new species, each with its own unique 
>destiny on this mysterious and wonderful planet. And the environment 
>survived by the prehistoric Europeans was a severe and special one 
>indeed, one that molded the race that is reaching its hesitant hands into 
>space.

The physical environment of Europe was no more challenging than any other
environment.  Humans have had to struggle and cope with the vagaries
of harsh climates (if not frigid temperatures, hot ones; if not between
seasonal extremes then between day and night extremes), with predators
of different sorts, with perpetual scarcity and seasonal abundance
throughout the species' history.  If Europe were somehow unique, one
might wish to ask why the characteristics we generally associated with
"high civilisation" - agriculture, the domestication of animals, the
development of writing, the emergence of state-level political
institutions - all arose elsewhere long, usually very long, before they
made it to Europe via social and cultural interactions and actual
population migrations.

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 14:14:35 PDT 1996
Article: 41137 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Putting Quotations Around "White", Another DUHH! Tactic
Date: 28 Aug 1996 15:54:30 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <501q3m$t28@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4up1qi$j63@molokini.conterra.com> <4urfhc$5dm@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4v4l1p$29p@basement.replay.com> <4v7d1s$74k@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4va1v7$kq@molokini.conterra.com> <4vb4fs$ce3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4vd6l8$ac3@molokini.conterra.com> <4vf9m3$ro9@gyda.ifi.uio.no> <321CEB07.6EAE@ix.netcom.com>  <32239CF6.6EB7@ix.netcom.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41137 alt.skinheads:36054

Kevin Alfred Strom  wrote:

[...]

>Until then, we will have to use the admittedly imperfect classificatory 
>systems we have now in our efforts to protect the unique characteristics 
>of the various races.


It is important to note that there are *many* differing classifications
which attempt to simplify human biological variation by grouping people
into "races" or other ill-defined categories.  It is also important to
be aware that there is already available considerable *genetic* information
on variation with the human species, and that this information presently
indicates very clearly that *none* of the existing "racial" classifications
does justice to the *either* existing variation within individual groups
identified as "races" by any of these schemes, OR to the tremendous
degree of similarity among the various groups so identified.

[...]

>Until we are able to make comparisons at the DNA level, we will have to 
>make comparisons of morphological, chemical, and other currently 
>measurable differences between human subspecies.

You are misrepresenting the current state of human biology and human
population genetics by implying, erroneously, that there is broad
agreement that subspecies exist  This simply is *not true*.

>The fact that subspecies 
>boundaries are subject to disagreement among scientists and others does 
>not negate the existence of distinct human types with differing talents, 
>proclivities, and other qualities.

Once again, you are misrepresenting the current state of knowledge
and theory about human variation, based on studies of human population
genetics, physiological and morphological variation.  There is *no*
consensus that subspecies exist among living humans yet await
improved methods in order to be defined.  This is *false*.  Because
the basic premise is false, your following assertion that "distinct
human types" have "differing talents, proclivities, and other qualities"
is equally false.

[...]

>Something is happening, and it is called speciation. It manifests itself 
>through natural racial feelings. Those feelings (when expressed by White 
>people) are deemed "evil" by the current elite in the United States, 
>which opposes with all its might and deception the self-determination of 
>the European race anywhere in the world.

There is no evidence that speciation is occuring within the human species.
Hominids, at least from the time of Homo erectus a million and a half
years ago, have *always* been highly mobile, and high degrees of mobility
are one of the factors which operate very strongly *against* speciation.
Don't try to dress your racism up in biological clothing that doesn't
fit at all, Mr. Strom.

[...]

>You speculate plausibly, but even if your speculations are correct, it 
>remains indisputably true that one race replaced another in Europe. The 
>descendants of the better-adapted and little-changed conquerors still 
>live there today, and are known to all but quibblers as Europeans or 
>Whites. Neanderthal hybrids are confined mainly to the universities (so 
>named because they exist in a universe quite separate from the universe 
>of reality which the rest of us inhabit); otherwise they left little 
>trace and may be confidently declared to be extinct.

Gee, you said you didn't think I was a Neanderthal, but now you seem
to be lumping me in with Neanderthals, Mr. Strom, perhaps inadvertently.
Why are you arguing with Mr. Holman in such insulting terms, Mr. Strom?
In evolutionary terms, the process by which the physically distinctive
characteristics of Neanderthals disappeared from the fossil record
around 40,000 years ago is not at all well understood.  Your assumption
that Homo sapiens sapiens was "better adapted" may or may not be true.
Your assumption that Homo sapiens neanderthalensis was "outcompeted",
marginalised, and driven to extinction by H.s.s. may or may not be true.
As the geographical barriers that isolated H.s.n. populations in 
western Europe during the Wurm glaciation and led to the emergence of
their "extreme" physical characteristics dissolved, it may simply be
that gene flow between them and other Homo sapiens populations resumed.
This is a possibility that cannot yet be ruled out.

[...]

>The "Out of Africa" model may someday be proved correct -- or discarded 
>-- but all human races undoubtedly branched, somehow, from a common 
>ancestor. No one, except the wilfully ignorant, doubts that today. So 
>there is, of course, no such thing as a pure race if by that you mean one 
>utterly unrelated to other human races.

I can't speak for Mr. Holman, but this is not what I understand by the
term "pure race".  I understand this term to mean groups of people whose
biological connection to other human groups is so remote that they
are genuinely distinctive.  The concept of "pure races" implies not only
initial divergence but continued, pretty much complete reproductive
separation.  It implies separate genetic histories over a very long
period of time.  None of the existing evidence from human population
genetics supports the existence of "pure races" among humans.

>But the environment selects and molds and purifies in the sense of 
>creating new races and eventually new species, each with its own unique 
>destiny on this mysterious and wonderful planet. And the environment 
>survived by the prehistoric Europeans was a severe and special one 
>indeed, one that molded the race that is reaching its hesitant hands into 
>space.

The physical environment of Europe was no more challenging than any other
environment.  Humans have had to struggle and cope with the vagaries
of harsh climates (if not frigid temperatures, hot ones; if not between
seasonal extremes then between day and night extremes), with predators
of different sorts, with perpetual scarcity and seasonal abundance
throughout the species' history.  If Europe were somehow unique, one
might wish to ask why the characteristics we generally associated with
"high civilisation" - agriculture, the domestication of animals, the
development of writing, the emergence of state-level political
institutions - all arose elsewhere long, usually very long, before they
made it to Europe via social and cultural interactions and actual
population migrations.

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 14:53:41 PDT 1996
Article: 60639 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Po' widdie Aryan chilluns
Date: 28 Aug 1996 15:16:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <501nsi$t28@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <321a4bef.1970818@news.inetport.com> <4vimk1$e6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com><321a4bef.1970818@news.inetport.com> <4vimk1$e6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vkd4t$rvh@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vo607$2a4a@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><321a4bef.1970818@news.inetport.com> <4vimk1$e6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com><321a4bef.1970818@news.inetport.com> <4vimk1$e6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4vkd4t$rvh@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4vo607$2a4a@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4vsgf2$hvn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <500cst$14s8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In message <4vsgf2$hvn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> - Laura Finsten
> writes:

>:>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:


>:>>Of course they are powerful.  Don't forget that they control the whole darn
>:>>world, and the known universe, and have co-opted ZOG lackeys like you and me
>:>>to do their dirty work.  You *do* know that, don't you McVayfeinsten?
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>:>Watch who you're calling a ZOG lackey, McFeevayovsteinison.  *I'm* no 
>:>lackey, I'm a junior Elder of you-know-what.  And I've got the t-shirt
>:>to prove it.

>Well, lookie who returned from wherever she was!  I never said *you* are a
>lackey; I said *I* am a lackey and that my old buddy McVayfeinsten is also a
>lackey.

Oops, I thought you were talking to me.  I thought I was McVayfeinsten
last week and this week.  All this identity switching gets really confusing.
Must be the rust in my decoder ring.

>I know you just LOVE to throw that T-shirt in my face (I hope that is not
>susceptible to misinterpretation), but I'll have you know that I have one
>particular T-shirt already and I'm planning on getting the other one next
>year, somewhere.  Be on your guard.

I think that the t-shirt in question is very much open to misinterpretation,
but there is zero, repeat zero, chance that it will ever be in your face.
It is a one of a kind.  Only one exists.  Only one will ever exist.  One 
fatbroad t-shirt, four fatbroads.  One size fits all, literally.  Too bad
you missed it, McFovay.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 18:12:05 PDT 1996
Article: 52702 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Conflicts in White Nationalist thought, Mr. Strom?
Date: 28 Aug 1996 18:17:48 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <5022gc$8nu@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <32203971.2E0@ix.netcom.com>  
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41165 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27930 talk.politics.misc:443244 soc.culture.usa:91892 alt.discrimination:52702

hmurdock@inreach.com (H. Murdock) wrote:

[...]

>Eugenics is the law of natural selection, AKA survival of the fittest.  

Sorry, but you just failed your introduction to evolutionary theory quiz.
But don't worry, you'll have a chance to make it up.  Eugenics involves
*human* decisions about who should be able to reproduce.  *Humans* make
such decisions based on ... what?  In Nazi Germany, the eugenics programme
was intended to increase the numbers of children born who would conform
more closely to the superficial "Aryan ideal" - blond-haired, blue-eyed,
tall, no discernible physical imperfections.  

>From  the perspective of population genetics and evolutionary biology, 
eugenics programmes tend to *reduce* genetic variation in populations 
by favouring particular qualities or characteristics and attempting to 
eliminate others.  Natural selection, on the other hand, does indeed 
tend to favour some characteristics over others.  

BUT studies in population genetics show indisputably that evolution does 
*not* involve the elimination of particular genes and the traits associated 
with them and the absolute dominance of other genes and traits.  In fact, 
what happens in evolution is that the relative predominance of certain genes 
and traits changes but only very rarely is a gene or a trait lost entirely.  
In terms of population genetics, evolution works to ensure that there is 
always variation within populations, and within a species as a whole.

In other words, your equation of eugenics with natural selection (and
the implied equation with evolution) is *wrong*.  They do not operate
in the same way, they do not have the same short term or long term effects.

Why does evolution seek to preserve, rather than to reduce, genetic
variation?  The best answer is to ensure that in the long term there will
be lots of variation for natural selection to work with, when new, 
presently unanticipated, selective pressures emerge.  And from the 
perspective of evolutionary biology, this is why eugenics is a very
dangerous and scary proposition.  We cannot know what new viruses or
resistant bacterial strains will emerge in the future.  We cannot know
what genes may make some people immune or more resistant to these new
threats.  We cannot know what genes, and what potential future value they
may have, we may be eliminating in the process of restricting reproduction
to those whom, based on dubious criteria at best, some political group
deems worthy of the honour.

[...]

>Why not direct your comments to what's right or wrong, instead of who's
>right and wrong?

This is precisely what I have done.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Aug 28 22:56:32 PDT 1996
Article: 60693 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!hole.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet-feed1!btnet!netcom.net.uk!xara.net!agate.xara.net!xara.net!emerald.xara.net!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!psinntp!psinntp!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Presence here of Non-jewish Holohuggers
Date: 28 Aug 1996 19:47:36 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <5027oo$ei9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <5006lu$lag@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <501rds$4tc@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

[...]

>Which reminds me--my check from ZOG bounced last week.  Keep it up,
>guys, and I'll expose the entire JOOISH Konspiracy for all to see.

Geesh, you're getting paid??????  Maybe as a junior elder, I'm
considered management now and I'm not entitled to the shiksa
buy-out.  That wasn't in my contract, though.

>Or are the JOOS paying everybody off?

Not me, and I'm starting to get steamed about it, too.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 00:06:52 PDT 1996
Article: 27930 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Conflicts in White Nationalist thought, Mr. Strom?
Date: 28 Aug 1996 18:17:48 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <5022gc$8nu@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <32203971.2E0@ix.netcom.com>  
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:41165 alt.politics.nationalism.white:27930 talk.politics.misc:443244 soc.culture.usa:91892 alt.discrimination:52702

hmurdock@inreach.com (H. Murdock) wrote:

[...]

>Eugenics is the law of natural selection, AKA survival of the fittest.  

Sorry, but you just failed your introduction to evolutionary theory quiz.
But don't worry, you'll have a chance to make it up.  Eugenics involves
*human* decisions about who should be able to reproduce.  *Humans* make
such decisions based on ... what?  In Nazi Germany, the eugenics programme
was intended to increase the numbers of children born who would conform
more closely to the superficial "Aryan ideal" - blond-haired, blue-eyed,
tall, no discernible physical imperfections.  

>From  the perspective of population genetics and evolutionary biology, 
eugenics programmes tend to *reduce* genetic variation in populations 
by favouring particular qualities or characteristics and attempting to 
eliminate others.  Natural selection, on the other hand, does indeed 
tend to favour some characteristics over others.  

BUT studies in population genetics show indisputably that evolution does 
*not* involve the elimination of particular genes and the traits associated 
with them and the absolute dominance of other genes and traits.  In fact, 
what happens in evolution is that the relative predominance of certain genes 
and traits changes but only very rarely is a gene or a trait lost entirely.  
In terms of population genetics, evolution works to ensure that there is 
always variation within populations, and within a species as a whole.

In other words, your equation of eugenics with natural selection (and
the implied equation with evolution) is *wrong*.  They do not operate
in the same way, they do not have the same short term or long term effects.

Why does evolution seek to preserve, rather than to reduce, genetic
variation?  The best answer is to ensure that in the long term there will
be lots of variation for natural selection to work with, when new, 
presently unanticipated, selective pressures emerge.  And from the 
perspective of evolutionary biology, this is why eugenics is a very
dangerous and scary proposition.  We cannot know what new viruses or
resistant bacterial strains will emerge in the future.  We cannot know
what genes may make some people immune or more resistant to these new
threats.  We cannot know what genes, and what potential future value they
may have, we may be eliminating in the process of restricting reproduction
to those whom, based on dubious criteria at best, some political group
deems worthy of the honour.

[...]

>Why not direct your comments to what's right or wrong, instead of who's
>right and wrong?

This is precisely what I have done.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 00:14:07 PDT 1996
Article: 41165 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Conflicts in White Nationalist thought, Mr. Strom?
Date: 28 Aug 1996 18:17:48 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <5022gc$8nu@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <32203971.2E0@ix.netcom.com>  
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hmurdock@inreach.com (H. Murdock) wrote:

[...]

>Eugenics is the law of natural selection, AKA survival of the fittest.  

Sorry, but you just failed your introduction to evolutionary theory quiz.
But don't worry, you'll have a chance to make it up.  Eugenics involves
*human* decisions about who should be able to reproduce.  *Humans* make
such decisions based on ... what?  In Nazi Germany, the eugenics programme
was intended to increase the numbers of children born who would conform
more closely to the superficial "Aryan ideal" - blond-haired, blue-eyed,
tall, no discernible physical imperfections.  

>From  the perspective of population genetics and evolutionary biology, 
eugenics programmes tend to *reduce* genetic variation in populations 
by favouring particular qualities or characteristics and attempting to 
eliminate others.  Natural selection, on the other hand, does indeed 
tend to favour some characteristics over others.  

BUT studies in population genetics show indisputably that evolution does 
*not* involve the elimination of particular genes and the traits associated 
with them and the absolute dominance of other genes and traits.  In fact, 
what happens in evolution is that the relative predominance of certain genes 
and traits changes but only very rarely is a gene or a trait lost entirely.  
In terms of population genetics, evolution works to ensure that there is 
always variation within populations, and within a species as a whole.

In other words, your equation of eugenics with natural selection (and
the implied equation with evolution) is *wrong*.  They do not operate
in the same way, they do not have the same short term or long term effects.

Why does evolution seek to preserve, rather than to reduce, genetic
variation?  The best answer is to ensure that in the long term there will
be lots of variation for natural selection to work with, when new, 
presently unanticipated, selective pressures emerge.  And from the 
perspective of evolutionary biology, this is why eugenics is a very
dangerous and scary proposition.  We cannot know what new viruses or
resistant bacterial strains will emerge in the future.  We cannot know
what genes may make some people immune or more resistant to these new
threats.  We cannot know what genes, and what potential future value they
may have, we may be eliminating in the process of restricting reproduction
to those whom, based on dubious criteria at best, some political group
deems worthy of the honour.

[...]

>Why not direct your comments to what's right or wrong, instead of who's
>right and wrong?

This is precisely what I have done.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 00:14:08 PDT 1996
Article: 41170 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.white-powder.wolfgang-droege
Subject: Re: "Diversity" -- Anti-White Code Word
Date: 28 Aug 1996 20:04:19 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <5028o3$ei9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <321257de.3541100@news.inetport.com> <4vdlpd$3ot@news.esper.com> <321d1124.7781301@news.intnet.net> <321E197D.3918@eskimo.com> <4vlech$6cf@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <321EB247.26BD@eskimo.com> <321EC75C.64EA@ix.netcom.com> <4vpmls$hg3@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.society.conservatism:50764 alt.politics.white-power:41170

bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>     In other words, anybody who fights anti-white "diversity" 
>     is a Nazi Who Wants To Kill Six Million Jews.
>     Boy, you clones are original!


Question, Mr. Whitaker, if you will deign to answer.  Do you
think that Jews are responsible for the diversity (cultural,
whatever) of contemporary America?  Do you think that Jews 
have more influence and power, as a group, than they should
in America or elsewhere in the west?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 08:49:40 PDT 1996
Article: 41202 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: The Origins of Anti-Aryanism
Date: 28 Aug 1996 20:18:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <5029jb$ei9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <32234BA1.2F85@ibm.net>
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Conrad  wrote:

>It obviously comes out of WWII. To the Jews, the Germans were not the
>ones who tried to get rid of them, it was the "shickzas" (you and me).
                                                ^^^^^^^^

?????  Only if your name is actually something like Connie, rather
than Conrad.  

>So, since the end of that war they have done everything in their power
>to diminish or dilute the white, European people of the world. And they
>are succeeding spectacularly. 

Uh huh.  I suppose that are you saying that North America was
"pure white" before World War II.  Uh huh.  Never heard of Native
peoples, Conrad?  Have you ever heard of the Metis?  They are
folks whose ancestry is mixed native and French.  Ever heard of
slavery?  Looooooong before World War II, a lot of Africans were
forcibly brought to the shores of North America.  Do you know
about all the Chinese who came at the end of the last century
to do virtual slave labour building up the transportation 
infrastructure of western Canada and the western US?

>The only problem for the Jews is, being a
>parasitic people, when the host is dead, what will they do?

Any parasite that had to depend on the likes of you for its
survival would already be in serious trouble.  This suggests
to me that your premise is wrong.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 10:14:51 PDT 1996
Article: 443244 of talk.politics.misc
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Conflicts in White Nationalist thought, Mr. Strom?
Date: 28 Aug 1996 18:17:48 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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hmurdock@inreach.com (H. Murdock) wrote:

[...]

>Eugenics is the law of natural selection, AKA survival of the fittest.  

Sorry, but you just failed your introduction to evolutionary theory quiz.
But don't worry, you'll have a chance to make it up.  Eugenics involves
*human* decisions about who should be able to reproduce.  *Humans* make
such decisions based on ... what?  In Nazi Germany, the eugenics programme
was intended to increase the numbers of children born who would conform
more closely to the superficial "Aryan ideal" - blond-haired, blue-eyed,
tall, no discernible physical imperfections.  

>From  the perspective of population genetics and evolutionary biology, 
eugenics programmes tend to *reduce* genetic variation in populations 
by favouring particular qualities or characteristics and attempting to 
eliminate others.  Natural selection, on the other hand, does indeed 
tend to favour some characteristics over others.  

BUT studies in population genetics show indisputably that evolution does 
*not* involve the elimination of particular genes and the traits associated 
with them and the absolute dominance of other genes and traits.  In fact, 
what happens in evolution is that the relative predominance of certain genes 
and traits changes but only very rarely is a gene or a trait lost entirely.  
In terms of population genetics, evolution works to ensure that there is 
always variation within populations, and within a species as a whole.

In other words, your equation of eugenics with natural selection (and
the implied equation with evolution) is *wrong*.  They do not operate
in the same way, they do not have the same short term or long term effects.

Why does evolution seek to preserve, rather than to reduce, genetic
variation?  The best answer is to ensure that in the long term there will
be lots of variation for natural selection to work with, when new, 
presently unanticipated, selective pressures emerge.  And from the 
perspective of evolutionary biology, this is why eugenics is a very
dangerous and scary proposition.  We cannot know what new viruses or
resistant bacterial strains will emerge in the future.  We cannot know
what genes may make some people immune or more resistant to these new
threats.  We cannot know what genes, and what potential future value they
may have, we may be eliminating in the process of restricting reproduction
to those whom, based on dubious criteria at best, some political group
deems worthy of the honour.

[...]

>Why not direct your comments to what's right or wrong, instead of who's
>right and wrong?

This is precisely what I have done.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 10:14:55 PDT 1996
Article: 443905 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,revisionism,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: HITLER'S FOLLOWERS
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:53:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <504asg$j6m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4vs3fj$j4b@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <4vtgpl$a4e@molokini.conterra.com> <5002rt$4c4@basement.replay.com> <32248455.65290102@news.gnn.com> <502seh$6b5@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>Here we go again!   Criticize Israel and you're a Nazi Who 
>Wants To Kill Six Million Jews.


I guess if repeating this mantra gives you comfort, then go for it,
Mr. Whitaker.  Clearly you need to find some comfort somewhere.

You are, of course, completely wrong in asserting that anyone who
criticises Israel is labelled a Nazi...etc.  Not that long ago,
Mike Stein, a regular poster on alt.revisionism, was critical
of Israel during the border mess with Lebanon, just before the
elections.  I didn't see anyone calling him a Nazi.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 12:21:18 PDT 1996
Article: 60881 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Whites Created Everything
Date: 29 Aug 1996 17:52:59 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <504ldr$s8o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:


I don't suppose you have any references for any of this, do you Dave?

[...]

>        It has long been known that around the first century A.D. the
>northwestern part of China was inhabited by a Caucasian people who spoke a
>language called by scholars Tocharian. In the early part of this century,
>French and German archaeologists excavating in the northwest provinces
>discovered extensive written manuscripts in this language, and when they
>cracked the code, so to speak, they were astonished at the similarities
>between this supposedly isolated Oriental tongue and ancient Germanic and
>Celtic languages.


Gee, well then maybe Caucasian people got writing and civilisation
>from  the Chinese, since both of these things existed in China long
before this date.

[...]

>        "Diffusionism can now be taken seriously again," chortled one
>historian, Michael Puett of Harvard. Diffusionism is the theory that the
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>ostensibly advanced Middle Eastern and Oriental civilizations of the ancient
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>world all benefited from contact with Aryan migrants, merchants, wandering
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>tribes, etc. and acquired much of their knowledge and attributes from these
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>contacts; this theory can actually explain quite a lot about history, from
 ^^^^^^^^
>the Indo-European roots of the Hindustani language to the Quetzalcoatl
>legend of the Aztecs to the mysterious ruins of Zimbabwe which were so
>clearly never built by Gentlemen of Color.

Where is this from?  This is a very confused and misleading representation
of diffusionism.  The general idea that technology, materials, ideas,
and people moved around across social and cultural boundaries, yes.  The
stipulation that all this movement flowed "from Aryans" to benefit
"non-Aryans", absolutely not.  I am also rather puzzled about the source
of the last comment in this paragraph.

Of course, if all things "good" flowed from the "Aryans", one wonders
why northern and western Europe lagged so far behind many other places
in the world in adopting agriculture and domesticated animals, writing
systems, elaborate architectural styles, and state-level political
institutions.  Or do you believe that the "politically correct" order
of the day has been suppressing massive quantities of archaeological
evidence to the contrary, and has been doing so for decades, even before
PC came into vogue?

[...]

>        According to the independent invention theory, the list of things
>non-Whites have independently invented includes the dozens of Asiatic
>dialects from Hindu to Punjabi to Uighur, all clearly based on a common
>Aryan root language---pure coincidence, say the Politically Correct 
>professors! 

Not at all, it is explained by language history.  These are all Indo-
European languages (Rey Eugénio, correct me if I'm wrong, please).
That's what language families are, groups of languages with a common
root.

>The agricultural techniques of the Aztecs and Incas such as 
>crop rotation and terrace farming, so similar to ancient Roman and 
>medieval European practices---bah, say the intellectual gangsters of 
>anti-racism, the Natice Americans made it up themselves!

Well, those agricultural practices were being employed in South
America and Central America by ancestors of the Aztecs and Incas
millennia before the Medieval era, and centuries before the Roman
empire.  Go figure. 

>The Mayan pyramids 
>and calendar and astronomy, almost duplicates of Greek and Egyptian 
>knowledge (Egyptians who were NOT in any way, shape or form 
>Negroes!)---those are all products of the brilliant Maya civilization 
>alone, according to the official line.
 
Actually, Maya pyramids are very different in their construction 
>from  Egyptian pyramids.  The Maya pyramids were constructed to
house buildings on their tops, and were used for ritual and ceremonial
purposes.  Egyptian pyramids were built only to serve as tombs.  Maya
pyramids had staircases, because they were intended to be climbed,
at least by some people.  Egyptian pyramids were not intended to
be scaled, and so had no structures for exterior access.  The 
engineering differed quite a lot because of their different
uses.  And Mayan pyramids often underwent several episodes of 
rebuilding and expansion, whereas Egyptian pyramids were one-time
things.

The Maya calendar is very different from the calendars of the European
and Mediterranean areas in several key ways.  For one, it was far more
accurate than any other calendar in use at the time (they were off
by only 1/4 day in the length of the solar year).  For another,
it dealt with the lack of correspondence between the lunar and solar
cycles by having a little "5 day month" at the end of the year.  [This
is what makes the Maya calendar more accurate than contemporary
European ones.]  

>The same Mayas' predelictions for 
>cannibalism and sacrificing young children by drowning them in sacred 
>wells is ignored.

Actually, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Maya practiced
cannibalism, although there is lots of evidence for human sacrifice.
Who ignores this practice?  Popular and scholarly books on the Maya
are full of references to it, complete with reproductions of murals
and carved stone monuments and other pieces of artwork that illustrate
sacrifice.  National Geographic and other videos on the Maya all
mention it, ad nauseum.  

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 14:18:06 PDT 1996
Article: 27967 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: DUTY
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:41:33 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <504a6t$j6m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <5008e1$k2k@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <502vdi$88g@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   For several hundred million years, our entire evolution has 
>been based on trying to produce more offspring that look like 
>us.  

Hmmmmm, not since the dawn of sexual reproduction and multicelled
organisms, Mr. Whitaker.  The entire purpose of sexual 
reproduction is to produce offspring that are *not* exactly
like either parent, or like the other offspring of the same
parents.  In other words, sexual reproduction creates variation.

In the next century, that obvious fact will become a real 
>revelation, sort of like the recent great revelation that 
>government-owned industry is not efficient, or Marx's great 
>discovery that economiics was important.

Not unless Mendelian principles of genetic inheritance are
completely overturned, and it sure isn't looking like that's
going to happen.

>   Women has always been what we fought over, and racial 
>survival in one sense or another, but always in the sense of 
>reproducing those who look like us, has always been nature's 
>first priority.

Uh, actually a lot of theorists think that sexual selection by
females, rather than males, played a more significant role in
human evolution than the variety you propose.  Evolution is
about the survival and reproduction of *individuals*.  Race is 
irrelevant.  

>    So what's your problem with that?

You really ought to learn something about evolutionary theory.

>    You realize that when I say this sort of obvious things 
>about the clones, they scream "You're reading our minds!"   But 
>I'm sure they're cheering  you on here.

Perhaps you would do better to read some books on the subjects
you attempt to lord over the "clones", instead.  Then you might
stop making absurd assertions about the fundamental nature of
humans and human societies which are based on little more than
your ignorance.

[...]




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 14:19:18 PDT 1996
Article: 41244 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,revisionism,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: HITLER'S FOLLOWERS
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:53:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <504asg$j6m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4vs3fj$j4b@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <4vtgpl$a4e@molokini.conterra.com> <5002rt$4c4@basement.replay.com> <32248455.65290102@news.gnn.com> <502seh$6b5@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>Here we go again!   Criticize Israel and you're a Nazi Who 
>Wants To Kill Six Million Jews.


I guess if repeating this mantra gives you comfort, then go for it,
Mr. Whitaker.  Clearly you need to find some comfort somewhere.

You are, of course, completely wrong in asserting that anyone who
criticises Israel is labelled a Nazi...etc.  Not that long ago,
Mike Stein, a regular poster on alt.revisionism, was critical
of Israel during the border mess with Lebanon, just before the
elections.  I didn't see anyone calling him a Nazi.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 14:19:18 PDT 1996
Article: 41253 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: DUTY
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:41:33 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <504a6t$j6m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <5008e1$k2k@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <502vdi$88g@molokini.conterra.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:27967 alt.politics.white-power:41253 alt.skinheads:36145

bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   For several hundred million years, our entire evolution has 
>been based on trying to produce more offspring that look like 
>us.  

Hmmmmm, not since the dawn of sexual reproduction and multicelled
organisms, Mr. Whitaker.  The entire purpose of sexual 
reproduction is to produce offspring that are *not* exactly
like either parent, or like the other offspring of the same
parents.  In other words, sexual reproduction creates variation.

In the next century, that obvious fact will become a real 
>revelation, sort of like the recent great revelation that 
>government-owned industry is not efficient, or Marx's great 
>discovery that economiics was important.

Not unless Mendelian principles of genetic inheritance are
completely overturned, and it sure isn't looking like that's
going to happen.

>   Women has always been what we fought over, and racial 
>survival in one sense or another, but always in the sense of 
>reproducing those who look like us, has always been nature's 
>first priority.

Uh, actually a lot of theorists think that sexual selection by
females, rather than males, played a more significant role in
human evolution than the variety you propose.  Evolution is
about the survival and reproduction of *individuals*.  Race is 
irrelevant.  

>    So what's your problem with that?

You really ought to learn something about evolutionary theory.

>    You realize that when I say this sort of obvious things 
>about the clones, they scream "You're reading our minds!"   But 
>I'm sure they're cheering  you on here.

Perhaps you would do better to read some books on the subjects
you attempt to lord over the "clones", instead.  Then you might
stop making absurd assertions about the fundamental nature of
humans and human societies which are based on little more than
your ignorance.

[...]




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 14:19:20 PDT 1996
Article: 41259 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Whites Created Everything
Date: 29 Aug 1996 17:52:59 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Message-ID: <504ldr$s8o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: 
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qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) wrote:


I don't suppose you have any references for any of this, do you Dave?

[...]

>        It has long been known that around the first century A.D. the
>northwestern part of China was inhabited by a Caucasian people who spoke a
>language called by scholars Tocharian. In the early part of this century,
>French and German archaeologists excavating in the northwest provinces
>discovered extensive written manuscripts in this language, and when they
>cracked the code, so to speak, they were astonished at the similarities
>between this supposedly isolated Oriental tongue and ancient Germanic and
>Celtic languages.


Gee, well then maybe Caucasian people got writing and civilisation
>from  the Chinese, since both of these things existed in China long
before this date.

[...]

>        "Diffusionism can now be taken seriously again," chortled one
>historian, Michael Puett of Harvard. Diffusionism is the theory that the
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>ostensibly advanced Middle Eastern and Oriental civilizations of the ancient
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>world all benefited from contact with Aryan migrants, merchants, wandering
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>tribes, etc. and acquired much of their knowledge and attributes from these
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>contacts; this theory can actually explain quite a lot about history, from
 ^^^^^^^^
>the Indo-European roots of the Hindustani language to the Quetzalcoatl
>legend of the Aztecs to the mysterious ruins of Zimbabwe which were so
>clearly never built by Gentlemen of Color.

Where is this from?  This is a very confused and misleading representation
of diffusionism.  The general idea that technology, materials, ideas,
and people moved around across social and cultural boundaries, yes.  The
stipulation that all this movement flowed "from Aryans" to benefit
"non-Aryans", absolutely not.  I am also rather puzzled about the source
of the last comment in this paragraph.

Of course, if all things "good" flowed from the "Aryans", one wonders
why northern and western Europe lagged so far behind many other places
in the world in adopting agriculture and domesticated animals, writing
systems, elaborate architectural styles, and state-level political
institutions.  Or do you believe that the "politically correct" order
of the day has been suppressing massive quantities of archaeological
evidence to the contrary, and has been doing so for decades, even before
PC came into vogue?

[...]

>        According to the independent invention theory, the list of things
>non-Whites have independently invented includes the dozens of Asiatic
>dialects from Hindu to Punjabi to Uighur, all clearly based on a common
>Aryan root language---pure coincidence, say the Politically Correct 
>professors! 

Not at all, it is explained by language history.  These are all Indo-
European languages (Rey Eugénio, correct me if I'm wrong, please).
That's what language families are, groups of languages with a common
root.

>The agricultural techniques of the Aztecs and Incas such as 
>crop rotation and terrace farming, so similar to ancient Roman and 
>medieval European practices---bah, say the intellectual gangsters of 
>anti-racism, the Natice Americans made it up themselves!

Well, those agricultural practices were being employed in South
America and Central America by ancestors of the Aztecs and Incas
millennia before the Medieval era, and centuries before the Roman
empire.  Go figure. 

>The Mayan pyramids 
>and calendar and astronomy, almost duplicates of Greek and Egyptian 
>knowledge (Egyptians who were NOT in any way, shape or form 
>Negroes!)---those are all products of the brilliant Maya civilization 
>alone, according to the official line.
 
Actually, Maya pyramids are very different in their construction 
>from  Egyptian pyramids.  The Maya pyramids were constructed to
house buildings on their tops, and were used for ritual and ceremonial
purposes.  Egyptian pyramids were built only to serve as tombs.  Maya
pyramids had staircases, because they were intended to be climbed,
at least by some people.  Egyptian pyramids were not intended to
be scaled, and so had no structures for exterior access.  The 
engineering differed quite a lot because of their different
uses.  And Mayan pyramids often underwent several episodes of 
rebuilding and expansion, whereas Egyptian pyramids were one-time
things.

The Maya calendar is very different from the calendars of the European
and Mediterranean areas in several key ways.  For one, it was far more
accurate than any other calendar in use at the time (they were off
by only 1/4 day in the length of the solar year).  For another,
it dealt with the lack of correspondence between the lunar and solar
cycles by having a little "5 day month" at the end of the year.  [This
is what makes the Maya calendar more accurate than contemporary
European ones.]  

>The same Mayas' predelictions for 
>cannibalism and sacrificing young children by drowning them in sacred 
>wells is ignored.

Actually, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Maya practiced
cannibalism, although there is lots of evidence for human sacrifice.
Who ignores this practice?  Popular and scholarly books on the Maya
are full of references to it, complete with reproductions of murals
and carved stone monuments and other pieces of artwork that illustrate
sacrifice.  National Geographic and other videos on the Maya all
mention it, ad nauseum.  

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 14:21:18 PDT 1996
Article: 82704 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,revisionism,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality
Subject: Re: HITLER'S FOLLOWERS
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:53:04 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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References:  <4vs3fj$j4b@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu> <4vtgpl$a4e@molokini.conterra.com> <5002rt$4c4@basement.replay.com> <32248455.65290102@news.gnn.com> <502seh$6b5@molokini.conterra.com>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>Here we go again!   Criticize Israel and you're a Nazi Who 
>Wants To Kill Six Million Jews.


I guess if repeating this mantra gives you comfort, then go for it,
Mr. Whitaker.  Clearly you need to find some comfort somewhere.

You are, of course, completely wrong in asserting that anyone who
criticises Israel is labelled a Nazi...etc.  Not that long ago,
Mike Stein, a regular poster on alt.revisionism, was critical
of Israel during the border mess with Lebanon, just before the
elections.  I didn't see anyone calling him a Nazi.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Aug 29 16:41:10 PDT 1996
Article: 36145 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: DUTY
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:41:33 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <504a6t$j6m@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bob whitaker  wrote:

[...]

>   For several hundred million years, our entire evolution has 
>been based on trying to produce more offspring that look like 
>us.  

Hmmmmm, not since the dawn of sexual reproduction and multicelled
organisms, Mr. Whitaker.  The entire purpose of sexual 
reproduction is to produce offspring that are *not* exactly
like either parent, or like the other offspring of the same
parents.  In other words, sexual reproduction creates variation.

In the next century, that obvious fact will become a real 
>revelation, sort of like the recent great revelation that 
>government-owned industry is not efficient, or Marx's great 
>discovery that economiics was important.

Not unless Mendelian principles of genetic inheritance are
completely overturned, and it sure isn't looking like that's
going to happen.

>   Women has always been what we fought over, and racial 
>survival in one sense or another, but always in the sense of 
>reproducing those who look like us, has always been nature's 
>first priority.

Uh, actually a lot of theorists think that sexual selection by
females, rather than males, played a more significant role in
human evolution than the variety you propose.  Evolution is
about the survival and reproduction of *individuals*.  Race is 
irrelevant.  

>    So what's your problem with that?

You really ought to learn something about evolutionary theory.

>    You realize that when I say this sort of obvious things 
>about the clones, they scream "You're reading our minds!"   But 
>I'm sure they're cheering  you on here.

Perhaps you would do better to read some books on the subjects
you attempt to lord over the "clones", instead.  Then you might
stop making absurd assertions about the fundamental nature of
humans and human societies which are based on little more than
your ignorance.

[...]




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Aug 30 12:59:37 PDT 1996
Article: 41291 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: More Black Savagery
Date: 29 Aug 1996 17:14:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
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pkasieck@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Philip Kasiecki) wrote:
>bob whitaker (bwhit@conterra.com) wrote:

[...]
>:      Note that the clones keep reassuring each other like this.
>:      They are used to clanning together with Mommy Professor 
>: and the rules of Political Correctness protecting them.  Trying to 
>: take a position without the group is apparently too much for them.    

>    You know what?  FUCK THAT
>    You and your "clones" and "mommy Professor" bullshit... you ought to
>read your posts, and see how foolish and just plain stupid you look.


Phil, Mr. Whitaker's stereotyping, annoying as his repetitiveness is, 
is typical of white power rangers.  White power rangers assume that
everyone who disagrees with them is stupid, blind, ignorant, and
has a cookie-cutter ideology.  It's part of the way they view the
world:  they have to divide everyone up into neat, well-defined (if
entirely inaccurate) categories.  They then deal with the categories
of their creation, rather than with the individual.  There are
"Whites", "non-Whites", and race traitors.  It is much easier, and
far less stressful and challenging, to simplify complex realities
this way.  If they didn't do this, they might not be racist, either.

It is sort of interesting, on another level, because this kind of
"typological" thinking is exactly what has been abandoned in physical
anthropology and human biology over the last 30 years (as well as in
a lot of other disciplines, too).  Instead, the focus has been on
variation in populations.  The white power rangers really do
illustrate rather well some of the fundamental flaws in typological
analyses. 


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman





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