The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul  2 06:55:21 PDT 1996
Article: 47647 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: 2 Jul 1996 00:05:50 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:


>>What's the grand prize, anyway, Gord?                                                             

>A rather thin tome entitled _The Wit and Witticism of Matthias Gottfried
>Giwer and Saint Thomas Moronicus_.

Eeeewwww YUK!  I withdraw my application!!!!                                                                       


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul  2 06:55:22 PDT 1996
Article: 47650 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: What is "chutzpah"?
Date: 1 Jul 1996 23:54:32 GMT
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>Richard Schultz wrote:
 
>> Keith Morrison (t08o@unb.ca) wrote:
 
>> : Hey guys, does the ZOG membership cover lost, damaged or stolen
>> : photos?
 
>> No, but we all get free copies of any, um, "interesting" photographs
>> of Aryan women that turn up.

Great.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul  2 10:55:57 PDT 1996
Article: 24362 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,uk.misc,uk.politics.misc,talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Whopper of the Week: Race is "Cultural"
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Arthur LeBouthillier  wrote:


>> OK, let us just agree that your understanding of the term "racism" is pretty much
>> the direct opposite of the meaning it has for most people today.  Can we do that?
>> Can we make it clear that your meaning of this word and mine are pretty much
>> diametrically opposed?

>Our definitions are pretty much diametrically opposed.

Por fin.

>>  The only way I can see any degree of overlap in our different usages of this
>> term is if you think that your sense of the word entails the contemporary one,
>> i.e., if one can only feel pride and a sense of identification with one's "lineal"
>> group (or at least parts of it) if one associates particular traits and
>> characteristics with social groups called races (lineal groups in your terminology)
..

>I can admit that racism, as I mean it can entail some of what you're talking
>about (i.e. hatred of other races).

No kidding.

>> An aside.  I was trying to think of a good analogy for the dispute we have over
>> the meaning of "racism".  The best one that has come to mind is a sexual harassment 
>> case I read about at an American university where a groups of female students
>> complained that a male professor's use of the phrase "rule of thumb" constituted
>> sexual harassment.

>That's pretty hilarious. Boy! See what madness you liberals have created!

Isn't it just appalling what happens when women are let out of the kitchen!

[cut]

>> Well, my hypothetical example did not specify that the Jewish grandparent would
>> have been Ashkenazi.  Would it make a difference if they were Sephardic?  Would
>> that taint their bloodlines beyond acceptable limits?  Can you specify what the
>> acceptable limits are?

>To the point where they do not exhibit traits which are significantly from those
>I recognize as "the norm."

Would you explain what you recognise as "the norm"?

[deletia]

>> No, but you seem to be seeing the edge of my point.  Isn't it up to the individual,
>> rather than some group, to decide his/her identity?  To determine which aspects or
>> elements of his/her identity s/he wishes to weigh in what ways?

>No. They may do those things anyways. Obviously, when they do things that are
>against the interests of those groups, then one is obligated to correct them
>(as I assume you're trying to do with me because you want to include me in
>"your" group whereas I don't accept its tenets).

Well, OK, I oversimplified.  The point that I was trying to make actually emerges
better farther below - that identity is the product of forces operating at
a variety of levels, including individual choices made within the context of
constraints imposed by family, society, as well as other things (I don't know
what yet, I'm still thinking about this).

I'm not dumb enough to think that anything I say will affect your beliefs, so no,
I'm not trying to "correct" you.  And I'm sure you're not trying to "correct" me, 
but rather to provoke me into say things that you can use for your own purposes.  

>There are many different groups, and they make varying demands on the individual.
>Ultimately, though, I think most people say that there is a highest group (perhaps)
>to which they identify. For example, if you believe that you and I have any
>moral obligations towards each other, then on what basis do you make those
>claims? Because we're  "humans?" What does that mean? Humans kill each other
>all the time.

Humans do seem to be "special" that way.  We kill each other all the time.  
Ones of the same "lineage" or closely related ones, in your terms, too.  It has 
to be significant that dehumanising rhetoric so often seems to be part of our 
killing each other, at least when it is done at the hands of political regimes.  The 
prevalence of it suggests to me that our inherent (or perhaps cultural) sense of 
shared humanity does imply some level of moral obligation.  To destroy that sense 
of moral obligation one must render the "other" subhuman.

[cut]

>> My general point is that individual identities emerge, are constructed, within
>> a social context.  Individuals make choices, some conscious and others not, and
>> some constrained or limited by  by external groups who seek to define themselves
>> in opposition to them.

>Yeah. I don't doubt that happens. 

I think it is probably a major part of identity formation in societies like 
ours, especially, where visible differences exist and there is so much tension 
surrounding them.  Perhaps especially for those who feel that the "mainstream" 
has been defined in such a way as to exclude them.

[another cut]

>> I introduced a hypothetical example to try to understand your
>> model of ethnic identity better.  I chose this example with a single Jewish
>> grandparent, in fact, because I wondered if physically identifiable "blood
>> relations" are significant.

>I think they are. I have seen you say in other posts that you could accept
>that familial relations were motivated by underlying biology. I accept that
>too. 

Mr. Stone mentioned something about this recently, too, and
I've been trying to remember my exact wording.  As I recall, I was responding
to a claim that "the family" was the natural, basic unit of social organisation.  
I jumped in to point out that while that is true, the *form* that the family takes
varies tremendously, cross-culturally.  If this isn't what you remember, I can
find it on Dejanews, I imagine.  We tend to think of "the family" as meaning the
"nuclear family - husband, wife, and children.  But of course, this is not the
norm for the family worldwide.  It wasn't even the norm here until relatively
recently, when we started moving out of our parents' homes before or right upon
marriage and putting our aging parents into nursing homes.  

But I was *not* agreeing that, beyond a very limited scope, social relations are 
motivated by biology.

>In fact, I think if you examine the underlying reality of almost every
>social group it is motivated by perceived blood relations. For example,
>the rallying cry for even the Communists is "Brotherhood!" Gee, isn't it
>amazing that they make a plea for unity based on an imaginary blood relation?
>If blood were not an important unifier for people, then they could just as
>easily plea for "Nobodyness! Let's all join together because we're not
>related in any way!" 

Hmmmmm, well it certainly is true that putative familial ties are used
metaphorically that way.  But I think that, as you say, it is the *perception*
that is important.  Well, actually, you aren't saying that and I don't want to
put words in your mouth.  But that is where I would place the emphasis.

>Senetor Daniel Patrick Moynihan has defined nation as
>"The largest social grouping which believes itself linked by blood relations"
>(or something very similar to that). Gee, isn't it odd that he would do that?
>How about the biggest liberal argument that blacks contain some white blood in
>them? Are they implying that it should mean something? The fact is that kinship
>is the most vital human social motivator. My belief is that it is because we
>have underlying biological "interests" which seek to maximize cooperation among
>those with close genetic "distance." On that basis, I think that it is something
>good. Obviously, if we remove the biological benefit that an ideology must
>bring then it could just as easily be harmful as non-harmful to life itself.

I agree with you that kinship is indeed a vital human motivator.  Beyond the
level of what can truly be described as family (genealogically), or lineage (in
the anthropological, rather than your, sense) though, in large scale societies
the sense of "kinship" becomes largely putative, or socially and culturally 
constructed if you like.  It seems that you regard it as a true biological 
imperative, though.  As if there is some instinctual mechanism ingrained
in us through evolution that makes this both necessary and inevitable.  This 
is only my interpretation, of course, and I'm sure you will correct me if I 
am wrong.

History does seem to demonstrate rather clearly how meaningless real
biological relatedness is when it comes to warring "lineages" (in your
sense of the word).

> And you see "lineage" and "value" as inextricably (causally?) intertwined?

>No, I value lineage. They are not the same. For me, I use "value" in a way
>synonymous with "ordinality." To say "I value X" means that "X holds a high
>ordinality in my estimation of things that are important (obviously with
>regard to particular goals)."

I mistyped and meant "values", rather than "value".  Do you see a necessary
relationship between "lineage" and "values"?  In other words, do you think
that different biologically related groups of human have different value
systems *because* of their different biologies?  [For the sake of argument,
I'm not going to run with the idea that there actually *are* biologically
signficant differences between groups you might identify as lineages, although
the genetic evidence does not bear this out, for the most part.  But that is 
another discussion.  And for our purposes here, I think the perception is more 
important than the reality.  Although *why* the perception and the reality
are often so at odds is a question that interests me very much.]

>> This is where I have a real problem with your concept of a "White ethnic group",
>> because you view culture as inherent, deriving from "blood lines" (I prefer to
>> say "genes", but we don't have to quibble over that unless you want to).  
>> Everything I know about culture tells me that this isn't so.

>I've never said that I see culture as inherent or derived from "blood lines."
>I believe that culture develops in conjunction with them. But unline the
>supremacists, I don't view that blood necessarily sets limits on what one
>can do with cultural ideas.

OK, I seem to have misunderstood you.

But if you do not see culture as inherent, and my concept of culture includes 
things like value systems, your focus on exclusionary blood lines is even more
incomprehensible to me.  Does this go back to your belief that (true) kinship,
even at a scale of 100s of 1000s or millions of people is the true motivator
underlying social relations?

>In fact, I constantly advocate against those kinds of ideas. There are many
>"supremacists" who don't like my viewpoint because I challenge their viewpoints
>on that issue. I state it clearly and plainly:

>          The White nationalist movement is not one of supremacy or superiority
>          but one of national survival.

Except that you *have* described "Whites" as "the best people", very recently,
in another thread.  That implies an ideology of "racial" (in your sense of the 
word, I guess) superiority to me.

[text deleted for brevity]

>> Your answer clarifies some things for me about where you are coming from,
>> though.

>I don't expect you to agree with me. But I have no problem explaining
>myself to people who are willing to understand. Contrary to what some
>might say on this newsgroup, I have had many non-White friends.

Ditto.

>> >First, it is not "my theory of ethnicity." What I am speaking of is what I
>> >understand anthropologists and ethnographers to be saying. What might be called
>> >"my theory" are my views of Whiteness. Second, the lineage and its associated
>> >traits negate the possibility of "black" or "African-Americans" being a member
>> >of my society. A small percentage of European ancestry is not good enough
>> >although I would think that their loyalty to European interests would be good.

>> Well, I'm not up on that literature, so I can't cite any specific arguments to
>> the contrary right now.  I'll see if I can find the time to do a bit of reading, though.

>I'd like that. I'd like to discuss these issues with someone who wants to 
>think about them rationally and in depth.

Well I can do my best to approximate rational thought, although I doubt I'll 
measure up to your standards.

I found a book that looks like a good starting point:
M. Banks  1996  "Ethnicity: Anthropological Constructs".  New York: Routledge.
It is a sort of critical survey of the major sociological and anthropological 
conceptualisations of ethnicity.  There are chapters on ethnicity and nationalism, 
and race and ethnicity, both of which likely are relevant.  I've added it to the 
growing, teetering pile in the corner.

>> Is it, in part, because such a person does not "look white"?  A related question is
>> whether a Sephardic grandparent would be acceptable if that element of his/her
>> "lineal history" were not visibly apparent.

>I don't have a problem with that.

Why is appearance so important?  I remember that in the first posts of yours
I saw, you declined to discuss or define your concept of "race" in those terms.

>> You are saying that 75 percent is a "small percentage"?
>> You are saying that "loyalty to European interests" (I take this to
>> mean culture and values) is insufficient?  Blood lines are paramount?
>> Genes, biology, rule?

>No, they're both important.

>>> I don't know what you mean by "externally imposed." I have my own definition
>>> which I use. That certain peoples might consider themselves "White" as do
>>> some Hispanics, does not affect my own valuation of them.

>> Sure it does, because you don't think of them as "White", and you say below that
>> your "White ethnic group" is your highest priority, what you value most highly.

>There are white (and White) "Hispanics." I work with White Cubans (who
>will tell you regularly "I'm not a Hispanic and I'm not a Latino; I'm
>a Cuban").

And not "White"?  Or do they save that for when they want to distinguish 
themselves from non-white (lower case intentional) Cubans who have
African and/or the wrong kind of Spanish ancestry?

>> Unless you believe that genes determine culture and values, there is no a priori
>> reason why a person who has 50 percent African and 50 percent English ancestry,
>> and who is born and raised in England by an English (white) parent might not think of
>> themselves as English, first and foremost. 

>Perhaps they might. However, using the racial interpretation of things,
>they can never be (although some far off descendent might eventually
>be English).

Yes, this is your argument.  Being English, for you, is a matter of one's
ancestors' biology, not of birth, enculturation, values, beliefs, or
loyalties.  But you, who are half Gallic and half Welsh can describe 
yourself on one level as "Gallic".  You presumably could also choose to 
call yourself "Welsh", if you wanted to.  One might say that it is up to you 
to choose which identities you decide to recognise in yourself, and what 
emphasis (or ranking, perhaps) to give them.  But you wish to construct 
a social order based on an ideology which denies many other people the 
right to do the same, unless it is in a society entirely separate from your 
own.  Do *you* believe in equal rights, Mr. LeB? [perhaps best treated
as a rhetorical question here]

>Look, ethnicity merely implies group membership on an ideological
>or cultural basis. 

I expect that this is what the book I've looked at (superficially, only)
will conclude.

>In this way, there are black, white and Asian
>Hispanics. That is because being an Hispanic implies no particular
>origin or lineage. Being White, British, German, French, or other
>European ethnicities does not imply merely an ideological or
>cultural basis to me. Therefore, there could be Ethiopians in
>England for a century and they're still not English.

So you are saying that "White" is *not* an ethnic group?  It is
contradictory to say that "ethnicity merely implies group 
membership on an ideological or cultural basis", as you have 
done above, and then to turn around and say that European
ethnicities are somehow qualitatively different.  

Your "Ethiopians in England" example illustrates exactly what I meant.  
Because of your "racial" group membership rules, you are constructing 
constraints that also serve to shape their identity.  Whatever their wishes, 
values and beliefs, people who think as you do will never accept them, even 
generations later.  This does indeed affect their choices for identities.

>> S/he would be English in language, culture and values, and in half
>> of her "blood relations". 

>Yeah, I know of people like that. It's pretty funny to me, especially
>since I have such a close connection with British/English culture
>(my mother being Welsh). It seems foreign and wrong to me. However,
>the Pakis in London will always be Pakis.

Well, this attitudes certainly helps to ensure that "Pakis in London
will always be Pakis".

>>  She, of course, would not be unaware of her African heritage. 

>Hopefully the English, Welsh, Irish and Scotts (not to speak of
>the French, German, Swedes) and others there will constantly
>remind her.

Well, you say "hopefully" and I say precisely.  That is exactly my
point.  

>> I would say that even if she were blind she could not be unaware,
>> because it is the element of her heritage that others would ensure
>> she was aware of. 

>I hope so.

Why?  For her benefit or yours?

>> That others would, in a  sense, impose upon her externally.

>"Impose" in this way, merely means to vocalize one's own
>preferences.

But one's own preferences can have implications for others.  This 
is the point that I am trying to make.  A person of Gallic and Welsh
parentage could not, for example, be "laine pure", no matter how
much they might think of themselves as Quebecois.  Those who are
"laine pure" define that group in such a way to ensure that.

The process of doing that - of shaping your own identity by
defining the group with which one wishes to be identified in the
exclusionary terms you use, in this case, because their lineage is
partly African - contributes to shaping the identities of those
whom you exclude.  It does this by saying that no matter what their
value systems, upbringing, and aspirations, some portion of their
biology renders them ineligible for membership in your group.  
And, as you already know, I cannot see how this is justifiable.

>> Elements of individual identity related to group membership are
>> constructed through both individual (internal) and external (social
>> or interactive) processes, working together (the feedback from some
>> other post).  

>That's true.

OK, so that is exactly the point I've been trying to make.  Part of that 
social process is the exclusionary definitions and actions of others.  In 
this way, your definition of your self-identity and your group *does* 
affect the process of both identity formation for other individuals and 
of other groups.  Just as, I think, others' identity formation and group 
membership affect yours.

>> But your emphasis on blood lines is exclusionary, whatever their
>> preference, whatever their culture and values. 

>Yeah.

>> You allow yourself "multiple ethnic identities" (Gallic and "White"),
>> but not those whose other identities are not European.  

>No, not those that are not part of my own heritage. For example,
>I don't permit myself to be "German" because I have no German
>ancestry. I'm not an Indian because I have no Indian ancestry.
>Even if I had some degree of either, in accordance with my culture,
>to stress them is wrong.

What I meant was that you don't acknowledge that another person might
recognise themselves as Italian and "White", or Jewish and "White".  
And here by "White", I mean all the cultures and values you associate
with this label, but not the genealogy, of course.  You see your own 
multiple identities, or those of other acceptable "pure" Europeans as 
potentially "recombinant" in a kind of hierarchical fashion.  But not those 
whose multiple identities include what *you* consider to be unacceptable 
non-European "strains".  A person can be German and White, or Gallic/French 
and White, or Scottish/Danish and White.  But you have decreed that no 
one can be Nigerian/Finnish and White, or Irish/Jewish and White.  You see 
those identity combinations as inimical, for reasons that to me make no sense.  
Unless biology is the bottom line.  And since you say that you do not believe
that culture and values are inherent, then what is the purpose of
defining your group in such a way, if it is not to maintain "racial purity"?

>> So you indeed are making decisions for others about the compatibility
>> of their different identities.

>I can never "make a decision for others." I can hold to certain
>values and expect that they conform as well. However, there is
>little coercion other than social stigma, banishment, refusing to
>associate that I can place on them to make them change.

But these kinds of decisions, because of the way in which they are
constructed, *must* constrain others' decisions, since they are
based on (very arguably) clearcut, exclusionary boundaries arising
>from  qualities over which individuals have no control (biological ones).
Please do not cloud the issue by saying that values are also important.
Even I can see that *without* the "correct" biology, an individual's 
values are irrelevant in your criteria for group definition.

>> You are in a sense creating a model in which some "multiple identities"
>> exist in a kind of nested hierarchy, while for others their different
>> identities must be warring away inside them because of their presumed
>> incompatibility.

>So? Too bad for them. They can do what is right and I will consider
>them good. If they don't, then I won't.

Well it occurs to me that it is biologically exclusionary group
definitions that create this situation, not something that "they"
can alter to the liking of those who subscribe to these ideas.  
What is right, Mr. LeB?

[cut again]

>> But you do decide for others, Mr. LeBouthillier, and this discussion
>> has made this clearer to me.  You have explicitly said that Jews,
>> whatever their "blood relations", are Jewish first and foremost,
>> whatever they might say.  

>Right, but that's not "deciding things for others." I have merely
>stood firm to particular positions which are supportive of my people.

How is living in the same society with people who share the same
values but *not* the same lineage (in your sense of the word)
*not* supportive of Whites?  Other than in not allowing Whites
to live in a society without people of other lineages, I mean, which
seems to go without saying.  Other than violating your right to
"freedom of association", which in this context is a non sequitur.

[small excision]

>> You have said that whatever their primary sense of self, culture
>> and values, a person who has 25 percent African ancestry cannot be
>> "White". 

>Again, this "deciding for others" is meaningless. I can decide with
>whom I will associate. Doing it does not violate anyone's rights.
>They're not obligated to associate with me.

No, you're saying that they're not *permitted* to associate with
you.  And of course, you're not using "associate" in the commonly
understood manner, but in one which quite literally means to form
a society/state, are you not?  Or are you going to sidestep and accuse
me of putting words into your mouth again?

[Locke deleted since we may get around to talking specifically
about his ideas sometime this millennium]

>We have a right to form a community and not include others.
>They don't have a right to be included. If they want to form
>their own communities fine. If we, together wish to form a
>community, then we must all consent and agree on certain
>things.

I will not comment here except to remark that you seem
to have decided that you are uninterested in pursuing
this discussion.

>> You do indeed decide for others, by determining which
>> groups they cannot belong to,
>> what their alternative choices are.

>Again, I can never "decide for others" unless they let me do it.
>I cannot put ideas in their heads, even death is not sufficient
>threat for someone who is strong to their moral ideals.

I think you underestimate the impact your ideas would have on
others, should they ever be realised.

>> Do tell me what amuses you about this one, eh?

>Actually, I rather enjoyed this one. There wasn't much that
>amused me here. One thing that I have found particularly amusing
>is your particular position that you are supportive of the idea of
>equal rights and then you say that you support unequal rights with
>regard to Whites. Which is it? Are you for equal rights or for
>unequal rights? What is an "indigenous" person? I'm "indigenous"
>to North America. In fact, by that basis, I'm a "native American."
>Are you saying that some people are more "indigenous" and more
>"native?" If so, on what basis?

Yes, I could hear your chortling from here.  It might have been
interesting to play word games (defining "indigenous" peoples could 
be lots of fun, since you are being purposely obtuse on this, but I
expect you know that) and clarify both our positions on equal rights 
on that thread.  But it seems you don't want to play anymore.

posted/e-mailed as a courtesy only, don't bother yourself to finish
what you started



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul  2 22:44:13 PDT 1996
Article: 24395 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!rutgers!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,uk.misc,uk.politics.misc,talk.politics.european-union,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Proof that Librulism stinks
Date: 2 Jul 1996 17:30:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4rbmbh$ooj@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4p6no3$3uk@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> <4pabnn$4hm@axalotl.demon.co.uk> <31BE2A32.430@cyberg8t.com> <4pmp4r$83b@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <31C15E16. <31C87BA1.27F0@cyberg8t.com> <4qbgn9$1clo@sol.caps.maine.edu> <31CA96A9.5D83@cyberg8t.com> <4qeem8$i6s@sun4.bham.ac.uk> <31CBEAD2.703D@cyberg8t.com> <4qgqss$cki@sun4.bham.ac.uk> <31CDA4EB.4B3E@cyberg8t.com> <4qlt0u$e7r@sun4.bham.ac.uk> <31D31EE0.65DB@cyberg8t.com> <4r16fm$3pgi@mule1.mindspring.com>  <31D89441.6075@cyberg8t.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:24395 talk.politics.european-union:4484 soc.culture.europe:46084

Arthur LeBouthillier  wrote:

>To my fan club:

>I apologize for not being able to continue the discussion to the same degree
>I was able last week. I simply am not able to spend the hours necessary to
>reply to every post. If you would like issues addressed, please reply to
>me in e-mail.


Gosh, and just when we were starting to have fun, too!


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul  3 15:06:12 PDT 1996
Article: 48007 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars, The Series begins [Preface]
Date: 3 Jul 1996 13:40:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4rdt7r$r0c@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4r8k59$5ce6@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> <4r9s9b$35ek@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4ra649$ct2@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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X-URL: news:4ra649$ct2@lendl.cc.emory.edu

libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
>Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) wrote:
>: In article <4r8k59$5ce6@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>, EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M
>: Huber) said:
\
>: >Ride with us as we lower ourselves into the slime at the bottom of life
>: >where the V*rmin wriggle , those who have stolen YOUR names and laid
>: >claim to the 5,000 year heritage of the brave Semites of the House of
>: >Judea. They are the GRAVES, the McVEYs and the McFEEs of the world,
>: >bringing havoc out of  order,  and ruin out of 10,000 years of White
>: >Heritage.
 
>: Yeehah!  Those fanatical Jews Graves, McVay and McFee.  Oyvey!  On we go, to
>: capture and torture the H*ber spawn.
 
>: Glad to make the list, H*ber spawn.

>Damn!  I never make these lists.  Can't I help to bring ruin our of 10,000
>years of White Heritage too, Gord?  Huh?  Can't I?  Please?


I'm kind of miffed that I didn't make the cut, either.  But maybe the 
H*b*rs think that I'm a *real* fake Jew in disguise.  Oh well, Anderstein, 
we'll just have to try harder, I guess.   


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From Finsten_mcmail_Cis_Mcmast@gifl.com Wed Jul  3 23:07:13 PDT 1996
Article: 35000 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!csn!nntp-xfer-1.csn.net!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!gifl.com!finsten_mcmail_cis_mcmast
From: Finsten_mcmail_Cis_Mcmast@gifl.com (Finsten@mcmail.Cis.Mcmast)
Date: 30 Jun 96 11:15:00 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Milton's departure.
Message-ID: <77b_9607031435@gifl.com>
Organization: Skylink: The GIFfer Skylink * Tampa Bay's Internet<>Fido Gateway 
Lines: 23


From: Laura Finsten 
Subject: Re: Milton's departure.

whitewolf@alpha.c2.org wrote:


>Whitewolf, proud to say thanks to Milton John Kleim, Jr for all he has
>done, for the "movement".

Of course, not proud enough to use your real name.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman


--
|Fidonet:  Finsten@mcmail.Cis.Mcmast 1:377/51.2
|Internet: Finsten_mcmail_Cis_Mcmast@gifl.com
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.



From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul  4 19:54:49 PDT 1996
Article: 48336 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Program
Date: 4 Jul 1996 13:43:06 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4rghpa$ctk@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4r43q6$iqp@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4rfe69$3j38@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In article <4r43q6$iqp@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU
>(Richard J. Green) said:

>>McFee = McVay
>>McVay = Finstein
          ^^^^^^^^

Is this deliberate, or another misspelling of my name?  I'm seriously
thinking about converting to avoid the errors.

[remainder trimmed]

>Giwer = bot for the denier scum.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Jul  5 11:16:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48461 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "White power" math! (was: African Americans?)
Date: 5 Jul 1996 13:45:06 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4rj692$rkt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31B378D5.419@worldnet.att.net> <31BC70EB.4020@voyager.co.nz> <31bcab0f.3191810@news.demon.co.uk> <31C1DDC7.25AD@worldnet.att.net> <31C2C65E.5 <31D49F39.2309@scott.net> <4rci4v$jo2@newsource.ihug.co.nz>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:24646 alt.politics.white-power:35234 alt.revisionism:48461

Dear "Mr. Stone",

I attempted to reply to the e-mail I received from you
yesterday, but it was bounced back to me because you
apparently are an unknown user at your address.  And so
I post my reply to your message here:

Please do not send me e-mail unless it is also posted.
I will not engage in private discussion of the issues
raised in these newsgroups with you.

Thank you. 



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul  6 10:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 24673 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.walltech.com!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: new politically incorrect party
Date: 5 Jul 1996 13:33:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4rj5io$rkt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4rcu7l$gcq@news.sas.ab.ca> <4rho8r$qjq@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

> (intphase@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca) writes:

>>                 THIS COUNTRY IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE !
 
  (snip)
 
>Yes, but what's your position on the racial problem, and more importantly,
>the Jewish Question?
 
>(I can hear it now:  "Jewish Question?  _WHAT_ Jewish Question?")



I won't disappoint you Mr. Griswold.  Just what is the "Jewish Question"?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul  6 10:01:18 PDT 1996
Article: 24680 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.eecs.nwu.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 5 Jul 1996 18:26:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4rjmoi$ab3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4q9ij5$e6t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31C8BE0F.5E8B@scott.net> <4qtcja$qoc@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>  <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:35285 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24680

holman@katk.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>In article <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, blakkr@ix.netcom.com(Scott
>A. Reap) wrote:


>>   FOR THE LAST BLOODY DAMN TIME......NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS.THEY ARE
>> ACTUALLY EVOLVED FROM A DIFFRENT SPECIE THAN HOMO SAPHIEN...THEY HAVE
>> AN EXTRA THIHG MUSUCLE......THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BETTER AT SPORTS


>************************** ROYAL PROCLAMATION **************************
>Your ignorance of the English language and modes of argumentation are
>manifest. You are hereby banished from alt.politics.white-power until july
>31, 1996.

>I have spoken.

>Eugene the Curly-headed
>King of alt.politics.white-power, Protector of our Aryan heritage,
>Defendor of the English language, etc., etc., etc.


If I may address His Majesty, Rey Eugénio, I might point out the Mr.
Reap's knowledge of human anatomy is also flawed.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul  8 09:16:00 PDT 1996
Article: 24852 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: REV RON VS JOEL.....WHICH IS WHAT AND WHO IS WHICH?
Date: 8 Jul 1996 00:12:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4rpjpg$bbd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4reurv$ca9@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4rf5cl$oli@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31dd2de6.1031766@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:24852 alt.politics.white-power:35484

jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane) wrote:
>On 4 Jul 1996 01:05:25 GMT, blakkr@ix.netcom.com(Scott A. Reap) wrote:

>>If the white race,and any other race on earth is to ever achive
>>anything noble,is ever going to rise above what we are now,we must RIP
>>THE CHAINS OF FALSE MORALITY AND DOGMANS.


>I have seen the light!

>Scott Reap is a Rottweiller.

>Look at the clues in the last line.  "Rip the chains"?  "Dogmans"?

>This isn't about white people at all, is it, Scott?  It's about Dog
>Liberation.  No wonder there's all this hostility toward cats.


But of course, as we know, the cats are really in control.  Felines
rule.  Victory is at hand.  **FOG** forever!!!!

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul  8 09:16:01 PDT 1996
Article: 24853 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Rosenburger: Sick Old Bastard
Date: 8 Jul 1996 00:18:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4rpk5c$bbd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4qscr3$7bp@tribune.concentric.net> <4qt9p1$lvi@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <4qudin$ecp@tribune.concentric.net> <4quodn$35l@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <4r1jf9$kld@tribune.concentric.net>   <4ra8if$5nj@tribune.concentric.net> <31D9ABE1.1826@ix.netcom.com> <4re1an$3pj@tst.hk.super.net> <4rg5ge$8mk@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:35485 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24853

bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]

>You are incorrect.  Mr. Rosenboig resorts to his scatalogical/beastial
>remarks as an opening gambit, not as a reaction to "hate".

And of course, you would never stoop to anything like that, would
you Mr. Griswold.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul  8 09:23:28 PDT 1996
Article: 35484 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: REV RON VS JOEL.....WHICH IS WHAT AND WHO IS WHICH?
Date: 8 Jul 1996 00:12:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4rpjpg$bbd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4reurv$ca9@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4rf5cl$oli@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31dd2de6.1031766@news>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:24852 alt.politics.white-power:35484

jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane) wrote:
>On 4 Jul 1996 01:05:25 GMT, blakkr@ix.netcom.com(Scott A. Reap) wrote:

>>If the white race,and any other race on earth is to ever achive
>>anything noble,is ever going to rise above what we are now,we must RIP
>>THE CHAINS OF FALSE MORALITY AND DOGMANS.


>I have seen the light!

>Scott Reap is a Rottweiller.

>Look at the clues in the last line.  "Rip the chains"?  "Dogmans"?

>This isn't about white people at all, is it, Scott?  It's about Dog
>Liberation.  No wonder there's all this hostility toward cats.


But of course, as we know, the cats are really in control.  Felines
rule.  Victory is at hand.  **FOG** forever!!!!

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul  8 09:23:29 PDT 1996
Article: 35485 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Rosenburger: Sick Old Bastard
Date: 8 Jul 1996 00:18:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4rpk5c$bbd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4qscr3$7bp@tribune.concentric.net> <4qt9p1$lvi@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <4qudin$ecp@tribune.concentric.net> <4quodn$35l@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <4r1jf9$kld@tribune.concentric.net>   <4ra8if$5nj@tribune.concentric.net> <31D9ABE1.1826@ix.netcom.com> <4re1an$3pj@tst.hk.super.net> <4rg5ge$8mk@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:35485 alt.politics.nationalism.white:24853

bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]

>You are incorrect.  Mr. Rosenboig resorts to his scatalogical/beastial
>remarks as an opening gambit, not as a reaction to "hate".

And of course, you would never stoop to anything like that, would
you Mr. Griswold.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul  8 09:23:30 PDT 1996
Article: 35487 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: "Outrage" (was: Papa Freud...)
Date: 8 Jul 1996 00:25:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4rpki2$bbd@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4rjle1$p7v@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <31DD80ED.1015@ix.netcom.com> <4rlgtg$61k@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Kevin Alfred Strom (ka_strom@ix.netcom.com) writes:

>> I have said more than once that I wished all debate on these newsgroups 
>> could be conducted in a gentlemanly fashion -- which does not necessarily 
>> mean passionless.

>Too true.  But this is just a tactic for the jews to attempt to emasculate
>White positions, by implying that it's not "fair" for Whites to get
>passionate about their Race.

Mr. Griswold, are you claiming that you always conduct yourself in a
gentlemanly fashion on these newsgroups?!?  That's the funniest thing
I've heard in weeks!!!!!!

[edit]

>Kevin, bringing up ideas of honor and decency is pointless, because the
>jewish ideas of same are totally different than White ones.

Do explain.  I'm truly curious about how "White" and Jewish "honour
and decency" differ from one another.

[edit]

>> Let us continue the debate on the highest level possible for each of us.

Got a ladder, Mr. Griswold?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 10 07:12:58 PDT 1996
Article: 35683 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Black (il)literacy (was: Jimi Hendrix)
Date: 10 Jul 1996 02:34:01 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4rv4qp$gho@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4r8eml$66u@tst.hk.super.net>  <4rg449$8cj@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4risjh$7kh@tst.hk.super.net> <4rlgap$5sh@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rn6rq$3rc@tst.hk.super.net> <4roaol$4cs@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4rqjer$suk@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rrcb5$ggu@news1.ucsd.edu> <4rs5ii$h0t@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4rv1t5$i2k@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]

> Yet Whites have managed to colonize every part of this
>world, and haveeven sent members of our race to explore the moon.

[edit]

Mr. Griswold, are you suggesting that the folks at NASA during the
Apollo era were Whites (as opposed to whites, that is)?




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Jul 12 14:39:16 PDT 1996
Article: 25193 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: LIBERALS ARE NOT HUMANS (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 12 Jul 1996 20:00:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4s6asi$gbt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4q9ij5$e6t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31C8BE0F.5E8B@scott.net> <4qtcja$qoc@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>  <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s35fu$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s4c2k$f8e@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5ikh$t3e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s64v3$3be@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s655u$3d1@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]


>>>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>>>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?
 
>> Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
>> evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
>> are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
>> of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
>> to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
>> taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
>> human evolution and contemporary variation?
 
>Oh, geez, here we go again, with the typical liberal argument of not being
>able to see the forest for the trees.  Look, Fester, if your eyes don't
>work, go see an opthomologist, don't come whining to me.

And here we go again with the typical Griswoldian "argument".  My eyes are
working just fine, thanks.  Might I suggest that you try either an EEG or
an MRI (cranial)?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Jul 12 14:40:24 PDT 1996
Article: 35924 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: LIBERALS ARE NOT HUMANS (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 12 Jul 1996 20:00:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4s6asi$gbt@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4q9ij5$e6t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31C8BE0F.5E8B@scott.net> <4qtcja$qoc@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>  <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s35fu$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s4c2k$f8e@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5ikh$t3e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s64v3$3be@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s655u$3d1@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]


>>>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>>>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?
 
>> Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
>> evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
>> are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
>> of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
>> to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
>> taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
>> human evolution and contemporary variation?
 
>Oh, geez, here we go again, with the typical liberal argument of not being
>able to see the forest for the trees.  Look, Fester, if your eyes don't
>work, go see an opthomologist, don't come whining to me.

And here we go again with the typical Griswoldian "argument".  My eyes are
working just fine, thanks.  Might I suggest that you try either an EEG or
an MRI (cranial)?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 11:23:08 PDT 1996
Article: 50023 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 12 Jul 1996 16:03:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:


>that Mr. Fester, Laura Fester's husband, was cheating on her. 
      ^^^^^^^^^^

He's gonna love this!!!!!!!  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 11:33:04 PDT 1996
Article: 25213 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:06:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4s5ikh$t3e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4q9ij5$e6t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31C8BE0F.5E8B@scott.net> <4qtcja$qoc@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>  <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s35fu$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s4c2k$f8e@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>The Prez (parella@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net) writes:

(snip)

>> Second, Homo-sapiens sapiens (modern man) originated around Lake Victoria
>> forty-thousand years ago.

>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?


Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
human evolution and contemporary variation?

Thanks.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 11:33:05 PDT 1996
Article: 25235 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 13 Jul 1996 15:11:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4s8eba$flj@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4r2ucg$mmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4s35hn$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s3rvt$b73@optional.cts.com> <4s5nhi$3on@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
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rdbennet@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bennett) wrote:

>Please don't use the term "cracker" to describe these people.  There is nothing
>intrinsically dishonourable about being a cracker (I consider myself to be one), 
>and using the term to describe malicious imbeciles like the one who started this
>noxious thread is an insult to decent white Southrons. (And this idiot is probably a 
>Yankee anyway.)

I didn't begin with the label "cracker", but I ran with it, so I'd like to offer
an apology if my jesting caused you any offence.  I have nothing against crackers.
I'm very fond of them with cheese.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 11:33:06 PDT 1996
Article: 25239 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:13:20 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4s5j1g$t3e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4rvjc8$775@decaxp.HARVARD.EDU> <4s4bca$f13@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]

>Our ancestors brought your ancestors' sorry black asses over from Africa,
>where they were wallowing in pathetic misery, never having advanced beyond
>the Stone Age, where they were slaves to other negroes, and gave them an
     ^^^^^^^^^
>opportunity to partake in a civilization that they could never have even
>DREAMT of, let alone built. [edit]


You still haven't explained just how it is that your "real life experience"
enables you to know more about pre-colonial Africa than all the
archaeological research that has been done there.  That is "iron age",
Mr. Griswold, whether you like it or not.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 13:56:22 PDT 1996
Article: 35956 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:06:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4s5ikh$t3e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4q9ij5$e6t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31C8BE0F.5E8B@scott.net> <4qtcja$qoc@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>  <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s35fu$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s4c2k$f8e@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>The Prez (parella@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net) writes:

(snip)

>> Second, Homo-sapiens sapiens (modern man) originated around Lake Victoria
>> forty-thousand years ago.

>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?


Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
human evolution and contemporary variation?

Thanks.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 13:56:22 PDT 1996
Article: 35984 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 13 Jul 1996 15:11:38 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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rdbennet@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bennett) wrote:

>Please don't use the term "cracker" to describe these people.  There is nothing
>intrinsically dishonourable about being a cracker (I consider myself to be one), 
>and using the term to describe malicious imbeciles like the one who started this
>noxious thread is an insult to decent white Southrons. (And this idiot is probably a 
>Yankee anyway.)

I didn't begin with the label "cracker", but I ran with it, so I'd like to offer
an apology if my jesting caused you any offence.  I have nothing against crackers.
I'm very fond of them with cheese.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 13:56:23 PDT 1996
Article: 35987 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:13:20 GMT
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]

>Our ancestors brought your ancestors' sorry black asses over from Africa,
>where they were wallowing in pathetic misery, never having advanced beyond
>the Stone Age, where they were slaves to other negroes, and gave them an
     ^^^^^^^^^
>opportunity to partake in a civilization that they could never have even
>DREAMT of, let alone built. [edit]


You still haven't explained just how it is that your "real life experience"
enables you to know more about pre-colonial Africa than all the
archaeological research that has been done there.  That is "iron age",
Mr. Griswold, whether you like it or not.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 16:50:25 PDT 1996
Article: 25260 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!insync!uunet!inXS.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 12 Jul 1996 15:38:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4s5rih$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4r2ucg$mmp@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4s35hn$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s3rvt$b73@optional.cts.com>
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sterrett@cts.com (Tony Sterrett) wrote:

[edit]

>	Crackerboy here does seem to know that you can't be a subspecies
>	if you evolved from a different species. Dogs and Hosres will
>	never become subspecies of each other. It is a moot point anyway
>	because ALL humans are Homo sapien sapien the same subspecies.
>	The closest thing to a sub-subspecies is Homo Sapien Crackerous.

Forgive me, but a minor correction is in order. For a sub-subspecies,
it would have to be something like "Homo sapiens crackerous cheese".
	
>	Elvis is dead.

I'm really sorry to hear that.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 18:25:22 PDT 1996
Article: 31640 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: LIBERALS ARE NOT HUMANS (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 12 Jul 1996 20:00:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]


>>>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>>>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?
 
>> Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
>> evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
>> are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
>> of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
>> to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
>> taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
>> human evolution and contemporary variation?
 
>Oh, geez, here we go again, with the typical liberal argument of not being
>able to see the forest for the trees.  Look, Fester, if your eyes don't
>work, go see an opthomologist, don't come whining to me.

And here we go again with the typical Griswoldian "argument".  My eyes are
working just fine, thanks.  Might I suggest that you try either an EEG or
an MRI (cranial)?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 18:25:23 PDT 1996
Article: 31659 of alt.skinheads
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:06:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>The Prez (parella@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net) writes:

(snip)

>> Second, Homo-sapiens sapiens (modern man) originated around Lake Victoria
>> forty-thousand years ago.

>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?


Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
human evolution and contemporary variation?

Thanks.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 13 18:25:23 PDT 1996
Article: 31687 of alt.skinheads
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 13 Jul 1996 15:11:38 GMT
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rdbennet@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bennett) wrote:

>Please don't use the term "cracker" to describe these people.  There is nothing
>intrinsically dishonourable about being a cracker (I consider myself to be one), 
>and using the term to describe malicious imbeciles like the one who started this
>noxious thread is an insult to decent white Southrons. (And this idiot is probably a 
>Yankee anyway.)

I didn't begin with the label "cracker", but I ran with it, so I'd like to offer
an apology if my jesting caused you any offence.  I have nothing against crackers.
I'm very fond of them with cheese.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 14 09:08:37 PDT 1996
Article: 36048 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Calling Ken McVay...
Date: 12 Jul 1996 15:48:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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References: <224303Z11071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Wilhelm Schmidt) wrote:

>In <4rvbml$bfd@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, at alt.politics.white-power,  writes:

>>CQ Ken McVay...CQ Ken McVay...

>>Drop me a line Ken at this AOL address (alaska.net address is outdated) or
>>give me a call sometime.  We need to talk.  I think you'll be very
>>interested in what I need to talk about.

>>Schoedel

>Why not discuss it here?  Who cares about Ken McVay?


Or, if it truly is a "private matter", why post a summons to Ken McVay 
here, instead of sending him a private e-mail?  Unless Schoedel is 
trying to set up a situation where he can claim that he tried to 
communicate with him but that McVay was unresponsive?

Weird.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 14 09:08:39 PDT 1996
Article: 36049 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: CHARGES IMMINENT IN BERMUDA SLAYING
Date: 12 Jul 1996 15:52:15 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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References: <4s5j4f$q8a@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[deletia]

>Watch the liberal spin-doctors go ga-ga over this...

Mr. Griswold, why is it that only the crimes of "non-whites" capture
your attention?  Why did you not wax poetic and outraged over the
Scottish fellow who massacred all those primary school children a
couple of months ago, or the Australian fellow who blew away a
couple of dozen tourists not long ago?

What the "liberals" go ga-ga over is your phenomenal hypocrisy
and your blatant double standard.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 14 13:42:14 PDT 1996
Article: 122066 of soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!uniserve!oronet!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: LIBERALS ARE NOT HUMANS (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 12 Jul 1996 20:00:18 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]


>>>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>>>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?
 
>> Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
>> evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
>> are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
>> of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
>> to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
>> taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
>> human evolution and contemporary variation?
 
>Oh, geez, here we go again, with the typical liberal argument of not being
>able to see the forest for the trees.  Look, Fester, if your eyes don't
>work, go see an opthomologist, don't come whining to me.

And here we go again with the typical Griswoldian "argument".  My eyes are
working just fine, thanks.  Might I suggest that you try either an EEG or
an MRI (cranial)?

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 14 13:42:15 PDT 1996
Article: 122081 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:06:25 GMT
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>The Prez (parella@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net) writes:

(snip)

>> Second, Homo-sapiens sapiens (modern man) originated around Lake Victoria
>> forty-thousand years ago.

>So?  The point is, some of us (Whites and Mongoloids) KEPT ON EVOLVING, and
>some of us (Congoids) HAVEN'T EVOLVED BEYOND THAT PHASE.  Got it yet?


Mr. Griswold, would you please enumerate the evidence to back up this
evolutionary argument you have made?  Are you suggesting that "whites"
are *not* members of Homo sapiens sapiens, but some other subspecies
of human?  Or are you suggesting that there are meaningful distinctions
to be made at the sub-subspecies level?  If so, could you explain the
taxonomic principles and then outline their relevance for understanding
human evolution and contemporary variation?

Thanks.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 14 13:42:16 PDT 1996
Article: 122099 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS (Re: Some niggers tried to rob my uncle
Date: 13 Jul 1996 15:11:38 GMT
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rdbennet@ix.netcom.com (Dan Bennett) wrote:

>Please don't use the term "cracker" to describe these people.  There is nothing
>intrinsically dishonourable about being a cracker (I consider myself to be one), 
>and using the term to describe malicious imbeciles like the one who started this
>noxious thread is an insult to decent white Southrons. (And this idiot is probably a 
>Yankee anyway.)

I didn't begin with the label "cracker", but I ran with it, so I'd like to offer
an apology if my jesting caused you any offence.  I have nothing against crackers.
I'm very fond of them with cheese.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 14 13:42:17 PDT 1996
Article: 122101 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
Date: 12 Jul 1996 13:13:20 GMT
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[edit]

>Our ancestors brought your ancestors' sorry black asses over from Africa,
>where they were wallowing in pathetic misery, never having advanced beyond
>the Stone Age, where they were slaves to other negroes, and gave them an
     ^^^^^^^^^
>opportunity to partake in a civilization that they could never have even
>DREAMT of, let alone built. [edit]


You still haven't explained just how it is that your "real life experience"
enables you to know more about pre-colonial Africa than all the
archaeological research that has been done there.  That is "iron age",
Mr. Griswold, whether you like it or not.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 15 15:34:06 PDT 1996
Article: 25371 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
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"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 15 15:34:08 PDT 1996
Article: 25374 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
Date: 14 Jul 1996 15:45:37 GMT
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hgarnett@avana.net wrote:

>> >Our ancestors brought your ancestors' sorry black asses over from Africa,
>> >where they were wallowing in pathetic misery, never having advanced beyond
>> >the Stone Age, where they were slaves to other negroes, and gave them an

>Laura, there is a mass amount of hatred in just these 3 lines, where does it
>all come from? 

Are you asking me to explain Les Griswold's bigotry?  I can't.  You'll have
to ask him.  Those are his words.  Mine were these:

  You still haven't explained just how it is that your "real life experience"
  enables you to know more about pre-colonial Africa than all the
  archaeological research that has been done there.  That is "iron age",
  Mr. Griswold, whether you like it or not.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 15 19:51:49 PDT 1996
Article: 36159 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
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"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 15 19:51:50 PDT 1996
Article: 36162 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
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hgarnett@avana.net wrote:

>> >Our ancestors brought your ancestors' sorry black asses over from Africa,
>> >where they were wallowing in pathetic misery, never having advanced beyond
>> >the Stone Age, where they were slaves to other negroes, and gave them an

>Laura, there is a mass amount of hatred in just these 3 lines, where does it
>all come from? 

Are you asking me to explain Les Griswold's bigotry?  I can't.  You'll have
to ask him.  Those are his words.  Mine were these:

  You still haven't explained just how it is that your "real life experience"
  enables you to know more about pre-colonial Africa than all the
  archaeological research that has been done there.  That is "iron age",
  Mr. Griswold, whether you like it or not.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 00:26:27 PDT 1996
Article: 122198 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
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"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 00:26:28 PDT 1996
Article: 122201 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Racial Inferiority Question
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hgarnett@avana.net wrote:

>> >Our ancestors brought your ancestors' sorry black asses over from Africa,
>> >where they were wallowing in pathetic misery, never having advanced beyond
>> >the Stone Age, where they were slaves to other negroes, and gave them an

>Laura, there is a mass amount of hatred in just these 3 lines, where does it
>all come from? 

Are you asking me to explain Les Griswold's bigotry?  I can't.  You'll have
to ask him.  Those are his words.  Mine were these:

  You still haven't explained just how it is that your "real life experience"
  enables you to know more about pre-colonial Africa than all the
  archaeological research that has been done there.  That is "iron age",
  Mr. Griswold, whether you like it or not.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 02:18:47 PDT 1996
Article: 50575 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Subject: Re: Prejudicial stereotypes  d and beaneaters
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oreo@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Goss) wrote:
>hallinan@borg.com (Terry Hallinan) wrote:

>>oreo@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Goss) wrote:

>>>lady@azstarnet.com (Lady) wrote:

>>>>They DID predate European accomplishments with the exception of Stonehenge.
>>>>The problem I have is with this need to place one civilization above another. 
>>>>Why is this necessary?

>>>I am familiar with the Aztec writing in place at the time of the
>>>Spanish conquest.  You are suggesting that they had writing and
>>>advanced construction technologies two or three thousand years
>>>earlier?  What sites show advanced technologies prior to  year zero?

>>The arguments about who was first are a bit silly.  Does a later
>>civilization show that its people are slower?  Is there a prize?

>I dunno.  Lady stated something as a fact that I think was incorrect.
>I was asking her for her evidence on that item.   If it is a
>meaningless item, then take it up with her.  If it is meaningful then
>she should support it, because it appears badly mistaken.  Choose one.
>I don't much care.

This is a nonquestion, in a way, because there is no identifiable 
cultural or political entity called "Aztec" prior to about 1150 ACE.

But elsewhere in Middle America, others had developed writing well
before the beginning of the Christian era (by at least 200 BCE, and
probably earlier).  And the Maya calendar, in use between 250-900ACE
was at that time the most accurate calendar in use anywhere in the 
world.  It was in fact more accurate than the calendar used in Europe
until the modern one was adopted only centuries ago.

>>Many civilizations have disappeared with almost no trace.  European
>>invaders demolished much of the record of previous inhabitants of the
>>Americas.

>If there is no trace, then how does she make the assertion?

This isn't true.  There are lots of traces, and there are lots of
books about these precolumbian societies.  An interesting and 
readable book about the decipherment of Maya writing is Michael
D. Coe's "Breaking the Maya Code".  A couple of good summaries 
include Robert J. Sharer/Sylvanus G. Morley's "The Ancient Maya",
Richard E. Blanton et al.'s "Ancient Mesoamerica", and for South 
America, Michael Moseley's "The Incas and Their Ancestors".




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 03:32:37 PDT 1996
Article: 25431 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: What motivates liberals?
Date: 16 Jul 1996 02:04:02 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4setai$19o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4rn0m5$ljs@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <31DF4071.6296@hkabc.net>  <4s582i$mdu@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s69fj$h@decaxp.HARVARD.EDU>  <4selgb$21n@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:25431 alt.politics.white-power:36212

bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Jeannie Kowalewski (jeannek@rio.com) writes:

[...]

>> Okay, Les. Why don't you tell us how you feel about the first person on
>> this thread who agreed with your view signing himself as:
 
>>    "They call me MR. nigger lover"
 
>> Is this a new rank in the Aryan Corps?

>It was sarcasm, you numb cunt.  Of course, being humour-impaired like most
>of you liberals are, I wouldn't expect you to recognize it.


Not a new rank in the Aryan Corps, but evidence that the Aryan Corps 
*is* rank, perhaps?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 03:33:44 PDT 1996
Article: 36212 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: What motivates liberals?
Date: 16 Jul 1996 02:04:02 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4setai$19o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4rn0m5$ljs@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <31DF4071.6296@hkabc.net>  <4s582i$mdu@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s69fj$h@decaxp.HARVARD.EDU>  <4selgb$21n@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:25431 alt.politics.white-power:36212

bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Jeannie Kowalewski (jeannek@rio.com) writes:

[...]

>> Okay, Les. Why don't you tell us how you feel about the first person on
>> this thread who agreed with your view signing himself as:
 
>>    "They call me MR. nigger lover"
 
>> Is this a new rank in the Aryan Corps?

>It was sarcasm, you numb cunt.  Of course, being humour-impaired like most
>of you liberals are, I wouldn't expect you to recognize it.


Not a new rank in the Aryan Corps, but evidence that the Aryan Corps 
*is* rank, perhaps?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 09:37:40 PDT 1996
Article: 36236 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.lightlink.com!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: LIBERALS ARE NOT HUMANS (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 15 Jul 1996 18:14:14 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4se1pm$di3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31C74A5E.51D@cei.net> <4q9ij5$e6t@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31C8BE0F.5E8B@scott.net> <4qtcja$qoc@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>  <4qvipe$5i2@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>  <4s35fu$rv5@swifty.cfa.org> <4s4c2k$f8e@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5ikh$t3e@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s64v3$3be@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s655u$3d1@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s7l4g$643@orion.cybercom.net> <4sar7k$k9e@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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X-URL: news:4sar7k$k9e@freenet-news.carleton.ca

bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>It's funny, it really is, how you liberals cling so tenaciously to your
>beliefs, and you just hate to see them challenged.  The latest of many
>examples is how you are all asking for "evidence" that Whites and
>Mongoloids evolved further than negroes.

>Could anything be more silly?

Yes:  thinking that saying "is too" when someone asks for evidence
and argumentation constitutes "challenging" someone's beliefs.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 11:44:13 PDT 1996
Article: 50737 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Prejudicial stereotypes and beaneaters
Date: 16 Jul 1996 01:55:57 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4sesrd$19o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <836824187snz@drmac.demon.co.uk> <4sc9l0$bcd@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-URL: news:4sc9l0$bcd@newsbf02.news.aol.com

dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:

>Just a passing comment, so to speak.[...]

>A tip.  Do not get in the habit of eating two cans of lima beans for
>breakfast.  That's all I have to offer for now, but the advice is worth
>more than gold.


Try cooking them with epazote.  Good for flavour, but also counters
some of the unpleasant side effects.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 11:44:14 PDT 1996
Article: 50738 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay, down by the school yard
Date: 16 Jul 1996 02:00:02 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4set32$19o@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31ea4d63.4130414@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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Mr. Moran, haven't you got it yet?!?!?




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 16:23:18 PDT 1996
Article: 36276 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 16 Jul 1996 20:37:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4sguhn$3vr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s4cad$fbe@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4sftfb$1s90@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36276 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25490 alt.discrimination:50501 alt.revisionism:50793

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In article <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>(Ken McVay OBC) said:


>>In article <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, 
>>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>>Les "National Appliance" Griswold wrote:

>>>>that Mr. Fester, Laura Fester's husband, was cheating on her. 
         ^^^^^^^^^^

>>>He's gonna love this!!!!!!!  

>>What? WHAT?

>>You have ANOTHER one, Finstenstein?

>Unbelievable!  And she got MY condo!!  I am shocked, Mr. McVay.

>>TURN IN YOUR CONDO!

>Damn tootin'.  About time.  (Can *I* have the condo?)


You're shocked but you knew it all along???  Sure, McFaythyov, sure.
You will stoop to any depth to take my condo away, won't you?
I'm sincerely disappointed.  If you folks think I'm gonna be one
of your lackeys for nothing more than the still unfulfilled promise
of a ZOG decoder ring, well, think again.  I've worked hard for
the condo, it is in my contract.  I'll sue!!!!!!!!!!!                                                                                   


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 16:23:19 PDT 1996
Article: 36277 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 16 Jul 1996 20:37:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4sguin$3vr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s4cad$fbe@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4sb3nt$nlh@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4sftfh$28h8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36277 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25491 alt.discrimination:50502 alt.revisionism:50794



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 17:19:08 PDT 1996
Article: 50793 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 16 Jul 1996 20:37:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4sguhn$3vr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s4cad$fbe@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4sftfb$1s90@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac-finsten-l1.socsci.mcmaster.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36276 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25490 alt.discrimination:50501 alt.revisionism:50793

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In article <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>(Ken McVay OBC) said:


>>In article <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, 
>>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>>Les "National Appliance" Griswold wrote:

>>>>that Mr. Fester, Laura Fester's husband, was cheating on her. 
         ^^^^^^^^^^

>>>He's gonna love this!!!!!!!  

>>What? WHAT?

>>You have ANOTHER one, Finstenstein?

>Unbelievable!  And she got MY condo!!  I am shocked, Mr. McVay.

>>TURN IN YOUR CONDO!

>Damn tootin'.  About time.  (Can *I* have the condo?)


You're shocked but you knew it all along???  Sure, McFaythyov, sure.
You will stoop to any depth to take my condo away, won't you?
I'm sincerely disappointed.  If you folks think I'm gonna be one
of your lackeys for nothing more than the still unfulfilled promise
of a ZOG decoder ring, well, think again.  I've worked hard for
the condo, it is in my contract.  I'll sue!!!!!!!!!!!                                                                                   


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 16 17:19:08 PDT 1996
Article: 50794 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 16 Jul 1996 20:37:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4sguin$3vr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s4cad$fbe@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4sb3nt$nlh@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4sftfh$28h8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36277 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25491 alt.discrimination:50502 alt.revisionism:50794



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 17 23:20:31 PDT 1996
Article: 51113 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 14 Jul 1996 15:29:01 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4sb3nt$nlh@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s4cad$fbe@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36388 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25583 alt.discrimination:50563 alt.revisionism:51113

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>In article <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, 
>Laura Finsten  wrote:

>>Les "National Appliance" Griswold wrote:

>>>that Mr. Fester, Laura Fester's husband, was cheating on her. 
        ^^^^^^^^^^

>>He's gonna love this!!!!!!!  

>What? WHAT?

>You have ANOTHER one, Finstenstein?

Sssssshhhhhhh!!!!!  Nobody is supposed to know!!!!  That's why I
figured I could get away with...  well, never mind.

>TURN IN YOUR CONDO!

Turn it in?!?!?  I haven't even picked up the keys yet!!!
This is a clear violation of my contract and I'm going to 
complain to You-Know-Who!!!
  

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 18 07:21:03 PDT 1996
Article: 51179 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!sdd.hp.com!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!bb3.andrew.cmu.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 18 Jul 1996 01:37:52 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <4sk4hg$sl8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:
>In <4sguhn$3vr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
> wrote:

>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>>>In article <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>>>(Ken McVay OBC) said:

>>>>In article <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, 
>>>>Laura Finsten  wrote:
>
>>>>>Les "National Appliance" Griswold wrote:

>>>>>>that Mr. Fester, Laura Fester's husband, was cheating on her. 
           ^^^^^^^^^^

>>>>>He's gonna love this!!!!!!!  
>
>>>>What? WHAT?

>>>>You have ANOTHER one, Finstenstein?

>>>Unbelievable!  And she got MY condo!!  I am shocked, Mr. McVay.

>>>>TURN IN YOUR CONDO!

>>>Damn tootin'.  About time.  (Can *I* have the condo?)


>>You're shocked but you knew it all along???  Sure, McFaythyov, sure.
>>You will stoop to any depth to take my condo away, won't you?
>>I'm sincerely disappointed.  If you folks think I'm gonna be one
>>of your lackeys for nothing more than the still unfulfilled promise
>>of a ZOG decoder ring, well, think again.  I've worked hard for
>>the condo, it is in my contract.  I'll sue!!!!!!!!!!!                                                                                   


>YOUR condo?!?!?!  DIDN"T get your ZOG decoder ring?!?!?!
>Finsteinsten, really!  Sheesh, talk about "revisionism"!  And NOW
>you're gonna sue?!?!  Well, get in line, my friend.

Well, I'm sure McFaythyvoy meant the villa, and we've been through
that already.  About the ring - do you not recall that I had to
return it because it was so big it kept slipping off my paw//// I 
mean hand?  You promised me a new one within the week, and that
was months ago.

Is the line very long?  I don't know if I have that kind of 
patience...  Maybe I'll just have to go on strike or something.

I thought it would be cool to be a superduper secret operative
for the world's most sinister conspiracy.  But I gotta tell ya,
you guys are not at all what I expected.  Not at all.

>Oh, and btw, McFeemanvay, the condo is MINE.  But when we are at the
>Florida GiwerGathering, I'll let you have the lifetime pass to Disney
>World - provided you can keep your decoder ring finger the same colour
>for more than 3 consecutive days.

I'm glad I'm not in on this one.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 18 15:33:10 PDT 1996
Article: 51258 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauving right along
Date: 18 Jul 1996 01:57:56 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4sk5n4$5s@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4si23p$1cs@grivel.une.edu.au>
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My husband is one of those people (usually male, I've
noticed) who, in this part of the spectrum, distinguishes 
two colours: blue and purple.

He doesn't bother with subtle distinctions like "mauve",
"lilac", and that kind of thing.  I have no problem
believing that some people would call "blue" what others
might call "mauve".


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Jul 19 07:29:29 PDT 1996
Article: 51391 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.california,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.oj-simpson,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.mexico
Subject: Re: Prejudicial stereotypes  d and beaneaters
Date: 19 Jul 1996 11:45:53 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4snshh$nkn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <836749839snz@drmac.demon.co.uk>  <836824187snz@drmac.demon.co.uk>  <4s1paq$v8i@hopi.gate.net>  <31e5792f.10876023@199.60.229.5> <4s5hcm$nge@ns2.borg.com> <4s5hog$nge@ns2.borg.com> <31e6eb5f.10320067@199.60.229.5> <4sdms2$5qo@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <31ebf2a7.4253152@199.60.229.5>
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You're welcome.  There is a nice little article about
Maya writing in Scientific American, too (Dave Stuart
and Steve Houston, Sci Am Aug 1989).

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Jul 19 17:18:49 PDT 1996
Article: 25699 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.flame.niggers,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.binaries.fitness.centerfolds,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism,rec.arts.comics.creative,rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks,alt.binaries.pi
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 19 Jul 1996 14:53:42 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <4so7hm$sv4@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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White Rights wrote:

[...]

>Tsk, tsk, how we selectively quote.  Just for the general reading
>audience let me brief them as to what was being discussed   Someone
>mentioned that the indians were here first and they were responsible
>for the developments of this country.  I was simply pointing out that
>the white man is responsible for the building of cities, medicine and
>technology.

There were cities in the western hemisphere before Europeans came here.
Long before Europeans came here.  In fact, there were cities here
while most of Europe was still waiting for the Roman conquest to
bring the "barbarians" writing, state-level political institutions,
and all those other "so-civilised" things.

>>Look, White Rice, how many skyscrapers have you built?  Please let us
>>know your personal achievements in the fields of technology or
>>medicine (or anything else, for that matter).  

>Read my message again, this time without prejudice.  I said the white
>man developed this country more in 200 years than the indians have in
>500.  Do you see any quote where I claim  my family,  friends or
>myself  built skyscrapers are gave to the world of medicine or
>technology?

So you are arguing that industrial urbanisation is inherently 
superior to any other form of society?  That skyscrapers constitute
the epitomy of architectural achievement?

>>And, by the way, who do you think actually *did* build those
>>skyscrapers?  You know how many high steel workers are Indians?  There
>>isn't a single one of them that's lazy, either.

>No, I don't know how many steel workers are Indians.  Do you?  And I
>would appreciate a source so I can read it for myself.  And Indians
>are lazy, I have worked with many and speak from experience.  I have
>also heard the same from others who have worked with them.

I've had some experience with "Indians", too.  In my estimation,
they are far from lazy as a group.  Some are lazy, most aren't.
Just like Europeans.

"High Steelworkers" - a classic paper, about Mohawks who worked
in the construction of skyscrapers and who excelled at it.  I
can't remember the author, though.  

>>I hold the American educational system responsible for you being such
>>an ignorant lout, though.  Obviously, you should never have gotten out
>>of the fourth grade.

>No, you blame the American educational system for not making me blind
>and brain washing me with Liberalism.  And for your information I am a
>college graduate in the medical field.

So you should have learned not to make gross generalisations based
on a few cases, or to judge the past by today's standards.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Fri Jul 19 17:23:20 PDT 1996
Article: 36533 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!utcsri!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: African Americans?d
Date: 19 Jul 1996 11:59:15 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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an640063@anon.penet.fi (American Superhero) wrote:

[...]

>Your argument is a non-sequitur. Skin color/Race and IQ are indelibly
>intertwined; the same genetic formulae that determine skin color also have
>posted like sentries within other areas and strands in their DNA's double
>helix the genetic properties which impart intelligence, its development,
>or retardation.

Would you care to elaborate on this?  Are you suggesting that the
genes that determine skin colour and the genes (yet to be
determined) that are related to "intelligence" are *not* distinct?
Would you please provide some credible documentation for this claim? 

>We inherit much of our brain functions. To say race and
>intelligence are separate is to be unaware of genetic structures and
>properties.

Again, I sure would like to see some credible sources on this.
(Hint: TBC doesn't count.) 

>We need to accept realities. Some races are smarter. Some
>persons in less intelligent racial groups are, at the same time, smarter
>than some of those in the more intelligent group. But numbers are what
>counts. The smarter the race, the more the numbers of those who are
>intelligent to go into business and technology, the higher the pay, the
>higher the profits, and better the chance of being successful.

So ultimately Asians will rule the world?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 20 09:31:18 PDT 1996
Article: 25754 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.flame.niggers,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.binaries.fitness.centerfolds,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism,rec.arts.comics.creative,rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks,alt.binaries.pi
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 19 Jul 1996 17:19:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4sog36$8cn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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It's "Cahokia".



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 20 09:37:53 PDT 1996
Article: 36605 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.flame.niggers,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.binaries.fitness.centerfolds,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism,rec.arts.comics.creative,rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks,alt.binaries.pi
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 19 Jul 1996 17:19:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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It's "Cahokia".



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 20 14:53:18 PDT 1996
Article: 25784 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 20 Jul 1996 20:16:31 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> White Rights wrote:

>(snip)

>>>Read my message again, this time without prejudice.  I said the white
>>>man developed this country more in 200 years than the indians have in
>>>500.  Do you see any quote where I claim  my family,  friends or
>>>myself  built skyscrapers are gave to the world of medicine or
>>>technology?
 
>> So you are arguing that industrial urbanisation is inherently 
>> superior to any other form of society?  

>You're playing the usual liberal game of pretending that the INABILITY of
>the natives to come up with anything other than the Stone Age-ism that
>they had to be a matter of CHOICE among them.  Tweren't so, Fester.  The
>indians were INCAPABLE of developing technology.  It's not a conscious
>decision they made out of choice.  But since that's what you implied,
>let's see some evidence.

What do you consider to be "technology", Mr. Griswold?  Would filigree
goldworking constitute evidence of technological capabilities?  Quarrying
and working copper and tin?  Shaping tools from volcanic glass, an
extremely difficult material to work with, with sharper cutting edges
than anything our modern technology is capable of achieving?

>> That skyscrapers constitute the epitomy of architectural achievement?

>Of course not, you dummy.  But skyscrapers are one sign of evidence that
>the race in question can work in materials (i.e., steel and concrete) that
>are generally indicative of superior technical skill.

What is superior about concrete and steel, Mr. Griswold?  And, actually,
native Americans did work in concrete (they used it for flooring material
and for construction mortar in parts of what is now Mexico).  I guess
it all depends on how you define "superior technical skill", doesn't it.
I would say that constructing buildings that are still standing 1,500
to 2,000 or more years later is a pretty darn good indicator of a very
high degree of technical skill.  But durability isn't an important
measure of "technical superiority" for you, is it, because it doesn't
produce the result you need to have.

>(snip)

>> So you should have learned not to make gross generalisations based
>> on a few cases, or to judge the past by today's standards.

>ROTFL!

>That's rich, Fester, it really is!  Why, if you liberals would follow that
>advice, you'd have nothing to bitch about!

Try to put your brain in gear, Mr. Griswold, and think about the
standards you use for "evaluating" the accomplishments of humans
who don't fall into your cherished "White race".  If you're still
rolling on the floor laughing, you're thicker than the walls of
Sacsahuaman.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 20 14:59:20 PDT 1996
Article: 36645 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 20 Jul 1996 20:16:31 GMT
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> White Rights wrote:

>(snip)

>>>Read my message again, this time without prejudice.  I said the white
>>>man developed this country more in 200 years than the indians have in
>>>500.  Do you see any quote where I claim  my family,  friends or
>>>myself  built skyscrapers are gave to the world of medicine or
>>>technology?
 
>> So you are arguing that industrial urbanisation is inherently 
>> superior to any other form of society?  

>You're playing the usual liberal game of pretending that the INABILITY of
>the natives to come up with anything other than the Stone Age-ism that
>they had to be a matter of CHOICE among them.  Tweren't so, Fester.  The
>indians were INCAPABLE of developing technology.  It's not a conscious
>decision they made out of choice.  But since that's what you implied,
>let's see some evidence.

What do you consider to be "technology", Mr. Griswold?  Would filigree
goldworking constitute evidence of technological capabilities?  Quarrying
and working copper and tin?  Shaping tools from volcanic glass, an
extremely difficult material to work with, with sharper cutting edges
than anything our modern technology is capable of achieving?

>> That skyscrapers constitute the epitomy of architectural achievement?

>Of course not, you dummy.  But skyscrapers are one sign of evidence that
>the race in question can work in materials (i.e., steel and concrete) that
>are generally indicative of superior technical skill.

What is superior about concrete and steel, Mr. Griswold?  And, actually,
native Americans did work in concrete (they used it for flooring material
and for construction mortar in parts of what is now Mexico).  I guess
it all depends on how you define "superior technical skill", doesn't it.
I would say that constructing buildings that are still standing 1,500
to 2,000 or more years later is a pretty darn good indicator of a very
high degree of technical skill.  But durability isn't an important
measure of "technical superiority" for you, is it, because it doesn't
produce the result you need to have.

>(snip)

>> So you should have learned not to make gross generalisations based
>> on a few cases, or to judge the past by today's standards.

>ROTFL!

>That's rich, Fester, it really is!  Why, if you liberals would follow that
>advice, you'd have nothing to bitch about!

Try to put your brain in gear, Mr. Griswold, and think about the
standards you use for "evaluating" the accomplishments of humans
who don't fall into your cherished "White race".  If you're still
rolling on the floor laughing, you're thicker than the walls of
Sacsahuaman.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 20 16:02:21 PDT 1996
Article: 51688 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!netcom.net.uk!ix.netcom.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: 19 Jul 1996 12:13:23 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
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Keith Morrison  wrote:
>Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
 
>> >   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
 
>> >       That is correct.  If you do not think aercheologists have the evidence
>> >  in the terms of their discipline you should straighten them out.  I am
>> >  certain they will be eternally grateful.
 
>>         What archeologists, Matty poo?  The ones at the Museum of the
>> University of Pennsylvania seem to think that you are all wet.

>I take it I should add archeology and biblical scholarship as
>two more areas in which Giwer demonstrates his vast ignorance?

>Pity he hasn't stumbled into my area of expertise like Moran
>did.

I'll add my voice to the chorus of those who would like to hear the
"evidence" - citation of an archaeologist and a publication that
supports your claim, please.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 21 10:19:51 PDT 1996
Article: 36684 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: LIBERALS ARE NOT HUMANS (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 20 Jul 1996 20:29:10 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <4srfim$ouj@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Douglas Smith (dsmith5818@gnn.com) writes:

>(snip)

>Moi:
>>>All right, it's like this:  negroes are, well, backwards.  But as soon as
>>>we mention specifics, people on the leftish side of things come up with
>>>"Oh well what about...?", naming some less-than-perfect white example, as
>>>if that somehow excuses negro incompetence.  All it does, however, is
>>>divert the topic.  It's funny, it really is, how liberals seem to think
>>>that diverting us from the topic of negro incompetence actually makes
>>>negroes not incompetent.
 
>> You have never proven "negro incompetence" Les.  People use examples of less than 
>> perfect whites to illustrate that generalizations about all white people can be made 
>> just as easily as generalizations about all blacks.  We know that you will believe 
>> what you want to believe, even if it is wrong.  But we feel compelled to point out 
>> the inconsistencies and lies in your arguments, which is not hard because you never 
>> use facts to back up your claims.  It is actually quite fun to see your dumb-ass get 
>> trumped by one of us "libruls" and watch as you fail to respond to our questions.

>This is a near-perfect example of liberal/minority sophistry.  Of course
>one cannot PROVE negro incompetence in a way that would stand up in a
>court of law,


Well, that's an interesting admission.  Now why do you suppose that is,
Mr. Griswold?  What is there about standards of evidence and proof in
a court of law that distinguishes legal proof from, for example, scientific
proof?  And how does "proof" differ from "common knowledge"? 


>but anyone with any brains at all can assemble the evidence
>and see what sort of picture it makes.  The liberals put their hopes in
>this sort of semantic game, but they seem to overlook the fact that not
>all people are as stupid as they so desperately require them to be.

So are you saying that judges, lawyers and juries don't have any brains?
Just what exactly are you saying, Mr. Griswold?  It seems to me that
you are the one engaged in a semantic game, since you seem to think
that "real knowledge" requires no proof to be accepted as such.  That
is a pretty strange definition of knowledge by any book, except your
white power ranger manual, I guess.

[...]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 21 13:39:04 PDT 1996
Article: 51856 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: 20 Jul 1996 20:34:02 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Actually, they were indeed in New York state.  The modern city
of Buffalo used to be called "Beau Fleuve".  The name "Buffalo"
comes not from the local native fauna but from a bastardisation
of the original French name for the spot.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 21 18:04:11 PDT 1996
Article: 36728 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 21 Jul 1996 16:55:39 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>You're shocked but you knew it all along???  Sure, McFaythyov, sure.
>>>You will stoop to any depth to take my condo away, won't you?
>>>I'm sincerely disappointed.  If you folks think I'm gonna be one
>>>of your lackeys for nothing more than the still unfulfilled promise
>>>of a ZOG decoder ring, well, think again.  I've worked hard for
>>>the condo, it is in my contract.  I'll sue!!!!!!!!!!!                                                                                  


>Excuse me.  You have been ordered to turn in the condo.  Go ahead and sue. 
>I already have my attorney picked out.

                                                                       
Where did you ever get the idea that I *take* orders, McFelinevay?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 21 18:35:54 PDT 1996
Article: 51929 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 21 Jul 1996 16:55:39 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4stneb$ql5@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s4cad$fbe@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4s5svv$5ro@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4s8q12$dgi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4sftfb$1s90@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4sguhn$3vr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4shulv$l9n@atlas.uniserve.com> <4sqf37$722@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>You're shocked but you knew it all along???  Sure, McFaythyov, sure.
>>>You will stoop to any depth to take my condo away, won't you?
>>>I'm sincerely disappointed.  If you folks think I'm gonna be one
>>>of your lackeys for nothing more than the still unfulfilled promise
>>>of a ZOG decoder ring, well, think again.  I've worked hard for
>>>the condo, it is in my contract.  I'll sue!!!!!!!!!!!                                                                                  


>Excuse me.  You have been ordered to turn in the condo.  Go ahead and sue. 
>I already have my attorney picked out.

                                                                       
Where did you ever get the idea that I *take* orders, McFelinevay?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 22 02:29:08 PDT 1996
Article: 36779 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Small things amuse small minds (was: Funny to deny the holocaust!)
Date: 22 Jul 1996 00:15:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4suh6v$am1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Peace Warrior (Peace@Earth.com) writes:

>> Unless I am mistaken (I am certainly no expert on the subject), the
>> holocaust was well documented by the nazis during world war two.

>You are mistaken.

What is your evidence for this, Mr. Griswold?  Have you ever read
Mein Kampf?  Are you saying that Hitler was lying in that book?  Are
you saying that the Wannsee Protocol is a forgery?

>> From what I have heard, it was Hitler's goal to exterminate the jews (among
>> others) and then put thier cultural artifacts in museums and present them
>> as people who 'used to exist' on earth (a sort of human extinction
>> display).

>Anti-Hitler propaganda.  Gawd, it's frightening to think that someone who
>can be as easily duped as you has the same rights that I do.

Yeah, I'm sure you do.  And I'll bet you and Papa Pierce would take
care of that mighty quick if your nightmare ever were to become reality.
  
>> Do racists and Nazis understand that when they promote their horrible
>> views, that they are infact going against everything that the western
>> world fought for during world war two?  

>Well, DUH!

That doesn't really answer his/her question, Mr. Griswold.

>> With this in mind, do they actually think that Americans and Europeans will 
>> look at their pro-nazi views and say "Yeah, you are right.  We fought WWII 
>> against racist/supremacists like you for no reason at all"?

>Get it right.  The vets who fought on the Allied side didn't fight "for no
>reason at all", nor do we expect them to admit such.  They fought for the
>WRONG reason, i.e. to exterminate their racial kinsmen, at the behest of a
>bunch of jingoistic jews.  Nor do we (at least, I) expect them to admit
>it.  The human ego being what it is, no-one likes to admit that they were
>fooled.  Especially when they have given as much as the Allied soldiers did.

The Allied forces did *not* fight to exterminate anyone, they fought to
defeat and depose the Nazi regime.

Please tell me who the "jingoistic jews" were who prompted Britain's
and Canada's declarations of war on Germany in 1939, Mr. Griswold.    

[...]




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 22 02:40:33 PDT 1996
Article: 52051 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Small things amuse small minds (was: Funny to deny the holocaust!)
Date: 22 Jul 1996 00:15:27 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4suh6v$am1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4su0vv$cnp@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:36779 alt.revisionism:52051

bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Peace Warrior (Peace@Earth.com) writes:

>> Unless I am mistaken (I am certainly no expert on the subject), the
>> holocaust was well documented by the nazis during world war two.

>You are mistaken.

What is your evidence for this, Mr. Griswold?  Have you ever read
Mein Kampf?  Are you saying that Hitler was lying in that book?  Are
you saying that the Wannsee Protocol is a forgery?

>> From what I have heard, it was Hitler's goal to exterminate the jews (among
>> others) and then put thier cultural artifacts in museums and present them
>> as people who 'used to exist' on earth (a sort of human extinction
>> display).

>Anti-Hitler propaganda.  Gawd, it's frightening to think that someone who
>can be as easily duped as you has the same rights that I do.

Yeah, I'm sure you do.  And I'll bet you and Papa Pierce would take
care of that mighty quick if your nightmare ever were to become reality.
  
>> Do racists and Nazis understand that when they promote their horrible
>> views, that they are infact going against everything that the western
>> world fought for during world war two?  

>Well, DUH!

That doesn't really answer his/her question, Mr. Griswold.

>> With this in mind, do they actually think that Americans and Europeans will 
>> look at their pro-nazi views and say "Yeah, you are right.  We fought WWII 
>> against racist/supremacists like you for no reason at all"?

>Get it right.  The vets who fought on the Allied side didn't fight "for no
>reason at all", nor do we expect them to admit such.  They fought for the
>WRONG reason, i.e. to exterminate their racial kinsmen, at the behest of a
>bunch of jingoistic jews.  Nor do we (at least, I) expect them to admit
>it.  The human ego being what it is, no-one likes to admit that they were
>fooled.  Especially when they have given as much as the Allied soldiers did.

The Allied forces did *not* fight to exterminate anyone, they fought to
defeat and depose the Nazi regime.

Please tell me who the "jingoistic jews" were who prompted Britain's
and Canada's declarations of war on Germany in 1939, Mr. Griswold.    

[...]




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 08:29:08 PDT 1996
Article: 36892 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!sgigate.sgi.com!rutgers!utcsri!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Thanks to everyone.
Date: 22 Jul 1996 12:40:31 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
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nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Jul 1996 12:30:33 UTC, you wrote:

>>I am finished posting messages for my dissertation.

>Sarah, would you mind posting the name of the crappy school you go to?
>Such a project, for a dissertation (???)--is this a joke, or are you
>one of Laura Finsten's students?


If she is one of my students (???), I can assure you that whatever
she has posted here has absolutely _nothing_ to do with her 
dissertation.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 09:54:04 PDT 1996
Article: 25982 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: ATTENTION: An apology to Ken McVay and a clarification
Date: 22 Jul 1996 16:38:50 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Dear Andrew,

For what it's worth, I think you went wrong before you got to the
point of misrepresenting yourself on the phone as someone else.  
(Did you even think for a minute of the potential consequences
of doing this for Ken McVay?  Don't you think he has enough
crap to deal with already?)

Rising to Mr. Giwer's baiting and actually attempting to contact
him by phone was foolish.  What did you plan to do?  Slug it 
out in the school yard?

In my humble opinion, you really need to learn to think about
the consequences of your actions before you act  Use your brain.

No go to your room and stay there until after Labour Day.

Laura Finsten



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 11:53:31 PDT 1996
Article: 25991 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg is either an idiot or Les Griswold is a Coward
Date: 22 Jul 1996 17:44:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
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fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:

>Leslie:

>How come you haven't e-mailed me so we can meet face-to-face?

>Afraid of something?

>Andrew Mathis


Andrew, didn't you get enough of the schoolyard bullying antics
when you were in junior high?  Or are you still in junior high?




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 12:21:08 PDT 1996
Article: 36909 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Thanks to everyone.
Date: 22 Jul 1996 16:44:23 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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I believe that in a Canadian university, what you have
apparently done would constitute a violation of ethical
guidelines for research, since you have been using
human subjects without their informed consent.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your 
revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 13:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 260233 of alt.politics.clinton
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.activism,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Cavalli-Sforza runs for racialist cover to save his genetic program.
Date: 22 Jul 1996 19:39:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 108
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Nuenke@sprynet.com (Matt Nuenke) wrote:

>Cavalli-Sforza is the father of the Human Genome Diversity Project
>that wants to genetically map over 40 ethnic communities. Now that
>project is coming under attack. The Los Angeles Times (7/7/96) reports
>that "Indigenous Peoples Resist Worldwide Gene Study;  Ethics: Native
>Americans, Australian aborigines and others worry about victimization
>by science and commercial interests of diversity project." What is the
>story here? 

The "story", as you so surreptitiously put it, is that people are 
concerned about their genetic material being expropriated and used
for financial gain by genetic-engineering and pharmaceutical companies
without their permission, without their benefiting from this use of
their genes.  Have you not heard of the very high profile case some
years ago where just this sort of thing was done?  Some company made
millions off the genes of a person, using them to make a medicine.
They person whose genes they were was never asked for permission,
and never received a penny.

It is far simpler than you want to think, Mr. Nuenke.  The great
corporate culture of America, not some Jooooish lobby, is threatening
the realisation of this project because current law cannot ensure
that human genetic material will not be used in ways that its donors
have not agreed to.

Cavalli-Sforza has been preaching the politically correct
>gospel that the genetic differences between races is insignificant
>while trying to gather blood and DNA samples from native people to
>test for their genetic differences. What gives? More double talk from
>Cavalli-Sforza or is he just trying to save his project? To find out I
>went back to a book he published in 1994:
>The History and Geography of Human Genes
>by L.Luca Cavalli-Sforza (CS), Paolo Menozzi, Alberto Piazza
>1994 by Princeton University Press

Might I suggest that you "go back" to a more basic text on evolution,
since you seem to harbour the delusion that "genetic differences between
the [']races['] is insignificant" means that there is little if any
genetic variation among populations of a single species.  Might I suggest
that you look up and study really hard the words "race" and "population".
Then perhaps if you return to this book, you might mange it less than you
do below.

>{CS}>(page 4)If we know that there exist different genetic types of a
>specific protein or other strictly inherited character, we can count
>individuals carrying one type or the other and establish the
>proportions of that type in the population being examined.  These
>proportions vary from one population to another because they change
>over time in each population in a relatively unpredictable manner.
>The change in proportions of these types over time is the evolutionary
>process itself.  It proceeds slowly but incessantly over generations.
>The analysis of populations living today in different places gives us
>a cross section in time of this continuing process, which is
>inevitably diverse in the various parts of the inhabited Earth.

>{MN} I interpret this to mean that genetic differences in fact do vary
>between population groups that are separated geographically, and
>population groups that are separated geographically for a long enough
>period of time fall into the classification of race/subspecies/breed
>and now the politically correct "population group." I guess by
>changing terms we can claim that there is no such thing as race.

Uh, no, Mr. Nuenke, Cavalli-Sforza is not talking about the general
process of speciation but instead about the specific evolutionary
processes that appear to account for known existing variation among
human populations.  That they vary does *not* mean that they constitute
"races" in the biological sense, or that they will become "races" in
the biological sense.

>{CS}Our primary interest is in understanding this evolutionary
>process.  The first task is to describe the existing variation, using
>a variety of techniques that lend themselves to this work and allow us
>to test the relevant evolutionary models.  We restrict our interest to
>aboriginal populations, which we define as those already living in the
>area of study in A.D. 1492. After this time, geographic discoveries
>stimulated the expansion and migrations of the economically more
>advanced populations all over the planet.  Some movement took place
>before A.D. 1492, but at a smaller scale.  Ordinarily, populations
>that migrated after that date have mixed only partially with earlier
>residents and are easily recognizable on the basis of physical
>appearance and historical and social knowledge.  They, and some
>populations that are highly isolated and/or have had a complex
>history-such as Samaritans, Jews, Gypsies, and several others-need
>special study and are not considered in this book.

>{MN} My understanding is that he wants to "understand this
>evolutionary process." What process? Speciation, where a species
>separated by culture or geography starts separating genetically? But
>he argues vehemently that he believes there are no significant
>differences between these populations. Then what is he studying? He
>seems to be very confused about evolution.

Again, you need to read very carefully an introduction to population
genetics.  In population genetics, evolution is changes in gene 
frequencies.  Period.

[remainder deleted.  I don't have the time right now, and it seems
Mr. Nuenke doesn't have the basic knowledge.  By the way, if you are
going to call the world's foremost population geneticist by his first
name, you could at least get it right - its "Luca", not "Luci".  And
I truly do think that he understands evolution far better than you do.]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 13:10:52 PDT 1996
Article: 260432 of alt.politics.clinton
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.activism,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Cavalli-Sforza runs for racialist cover to save his genetic program.
Date: 23 Jul 1996 13:44:05 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Kegger@ix.netcom.com (Matt Neunke) wrote:
>On 22 Jul 1996 19:39:43 GMT, Laura Finsten
> wrote:

>>Nuenke@sprynet.com (Matt Nuenke) wrote:

>>>Cavalli-Sforza is the father of the Human Genome Diversity Project
>>>that wants to genetically map over 40 ethnic communities. Now that
>>>project is coming under attack. The Los Angeles Times (7/7/96) reports
>>>that "Indigenous Peoples Resist Worldwide Gene Study;  Ethics: Native
>>>Americans, Australian aborigines and others worry about victimization
>>>by science and commercial interests of diversity project." What is the
>>>story here? 

>>The "story", as you so surreptitiously put it, is that people are 
>>concerned about their genetic material being expropriated and used
>>for financial gain by genetic-engineering and pharmaceutical companies
>>without their permission, without their benefiting from this use of
>>their genes.

>So they can sell their genes. Anyone want to offer me money for some
>of my genes? (Probably only if I promise not to propogate them.) What
>a bogus argument. I'm sure all these ignorant aborigines are sitting
>around cotemplating the value of their genes and what they might bring
>on the free market if they maintained control. How foolish. Everyone
>knows the Jewish reaserchers would never take advantage of these poor
>souls. That would be so unlike Jewish historical cuture to exploit the
>stupid natives for financial gain.


And it seems so like you, from what I have gleaned from your posts,
to use the adjective "stupid" to describe natives.  That you might
chosse to offer up your genetic material under the circumstances 
surrounding this project does not obviate the fact that it presents
some very fundamental ethical as well as potential legal dilemmas.

What if your genetic material were used in reproductive technology,
Mr. Nuenke, and the resulting offspring might have moral and legal
claims on you in the future?  Would you be so magnanimous if billions
were made from your genes and you gained nothing, financially?  Is
it possible that you might baulk if you were to discover that your
genetic material were to be used for purposes you found highly 
objectionable?

Perhaps none of these possibilities troubles you.  However, they do
trouble many other people, including those medical and scientific
researchers who are concerned about ethical issues that always arise
when human subjects are used.  The issue of informed consent is
paramount, and is compounded by the different cultural backgrounds of
the majority of the intended subjects of the study, not to mention
the uncertainty about the potential future uses to which their 
genetic material might be put.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 13:21:28 PDT 1996
Article: 36915 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!rutgers!utcsri!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Negro neighbourhoods vs. White neighbourhoods (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 23 Jul 1996 12:40:15 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]

>This is what irks me most about liberals:  they have NO HESITATION about
>making ME and (more importantly) MY CHILDREN have to pay the cost of THEIR
>social engineering, but as soon as you start to suggest that THEY should
>do as THEY preach, the equivocations begin:  "oh, I'm in college..." "oh,
>I can't afford it yet..." "oh, I have a huge mortgage to pay off, I can't
>afford to move!", etc. etc.  


I pay taxes, too, Mr. Griswold.  And I live in a neighbourhood that
is very mixed, with lots of people who are Jewish, of African descent,
and of Asian descent, as well as those of European (all parts of 
Europe) descent.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 18:20:50 PDT 1996
Article: 52557 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!news.stealth.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!uunet!inXS.uu.net!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: 22 Jul 1996 12:57:11 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

[...]

>    Oh, don't thank me, thank Giwer.  He clearly does much more than anyone
>    else to promote contributions to Nizkor.  If I didn't know better, I'd
>    assume he was a plant.


At this point, I think the evidence strongly points in that direction.
There isn't much to support the thesis that he is a sentient creature
(animal), but I'm not yet entirely convinced that he is not mineral.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 18:20:52 PDT 1996
Article: 52584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: 23 Jul 1996 13:06:56 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Keith Morrison  wrote:
>Laura Finsten wrote:
 
>> dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
 
[...]
 
>> >    Oh, don't thank me, thank Giwer.  He clearly does much more than anyone
>> >    else to promote contributions to Nizkor.  If I didn't know better, I'd
>> >    assume he was a plant.
 
>> At this point, I think the evidence strongly points in that direction.
>> There isn't much to support the thesis that he is a sentient creature
>> (animal), but I'm not yet entirely convinced that he is not mineral.

>I resent the implication that he falls within my science.
>However I do admit a certain facination in studying him.


You know, Keith, it might be that he actually falls somewhere between yours
and mine.  My hypothesis is that his cranium began to fossilise before it
had finished growing, and that the bones not of the skull and also the matter
normally contained with the skull have long been undergoing a slow, gradual
process of mineralisation.  What do you think?  Seem plausible based on
the evidence?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 23 20:45:20 PDT 1996
Article: 36945 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Small things amuse small minds (was: Funny to deny the holocaust!)
Date: 23 Jul 1996 12:54:22 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
 
>>>Peace Warrior (Peace@Earth.com) writes:
 
>>>> Unless I am mistaken (I am certainly no expert on the subject), the
>>>> holocaust was well documented by the nazis during world war two.
 
>>>You are mistaken.
 
>> What is your evidence for this, Mr. Griswold?  Have you ever read
>> Mein Kampf?  

>Yes, I have.

Well, then do share with all your fans what Hitler said about "the
Jewish problem" and what he saw as solutions to that "problem".
Don't be shy, Mr. Griswold.

>> Are you saying that Hitler was lying in that book?  

>Lying about what?  

About what he wanted to do solve the "Jewish problem", Mr. Griswold.

>> Are you saying that the Wannsee Protocol is a forgery?

>Yep, but it's not just me saying it.  You can wipe your ass with the
>so-called "Wannsee Protocol".

So what exactly are you saying, Mr. Griswold?  Hitler despised Jews and
was obsessed with what one might call the "Jewish problem", but once in
power made no effort to use his power to resolve the "problem", beyond
implementing the Nuremberg laws?

(snip)


[...]

>> The Allied forces did *not* fight to exterminate anyone, they fought to
>> defeat and depose the Nazi regime.

>Bullshit, Fester.  There may indeed have been idealistic young men who
>marched off to war to "save democracy", without really understanding what
>that is, but the EFFECTS were to slaughter a great number of Germans, and
>to allow many more to fall under jewish/Bolshevik control.


War does that, Mr. Griswold.  Many Allied lives were also lost.  Are you
saying that the Allies should have sat back calmly and done nothing while 
Hitler took the Rhineland, the Sudeten, annexed Austria, invaded and 
defeated Poland, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, and France, and then
turned his sites on Britain, the Baltic states and north Africa?


>> Please tell me who the "jingoistic jews" were who prompted Britain's
>> and Canada's declarations of war on Germany in 1939, Mr. Griswold.    

>There you have yet more liberal goofiness.  Fester, Fester, Fester, it
>would hardly be a conspiracy if it was widely known, now would it?  The
>jews are, and were, not so brazen as to openly meddle in Aryan affairs. 
>They'd sneak their brethren in, slowly but surely, and exercise control in
>that manner.  That it was indirect and often unofficial makes it no less real.


I would really like to understand your position on this, Mr. Griswold.
Are you actually arguing that, in Canada in the 1930s when there were
quotas limiting the number of Jews who could be admitted to medical schools
and other professional programmes, when there were by-laws prohibiting Jews
>from  buying houses in many city neighbourhoods, and when there were 
extremely restrictive immigration laws making it almost impossible for
Jews to be admitted to Canada despite the events in Germany...  Are you
saying that at the same time that was the reality of life in Canada for
Jews, Canadian Jews were working behind the scenes to direct political
policy?!?!?!?

Another good laugh.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 24 11:14:57 PDT 1996
Article: 50831 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.activism,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Cavalli-Sforza runs for racialist cover to save his genetic program.
Date: 22 Jul 1996 19:39:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 108
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Nuenke@sprynet.com (Matt Nuenke) wrote:

>Cavalli-Sforza is the father of the Human Genome Diversity Project
>that wants to genetically map over 40 ethnic communities. Now that
>project is coming under attack. The Los Angeles Times (7/7/96) reports
>that "Indigenous Peoples Resist Worldwide Gene Study;  Ethics: Native
>Americans, Australian aborigines and others worry about victimization
>by science and commercial interests of diversity project." What is the
>story here? 

The "story", as you so surreptitiously put it, is that people are 
concerned about their genetic material being expropriated and used
for financial gain by genetic-engineering and pharmaceutical companies
without their permission, without their benefiting from this use of
their genes.  Have you not heard of the very high profile case some
years ago where just this sort of thing was done?  Some company made
millions off the genes of a person, using them to make a medicine.
They person whose genes they were was never asked for permission,
and never received a penny.

It is far simpler than you want to think, Mr. Nuenke.  The great
corporate culture of America, not some Jooooish lobby, is threatening
the realisation of this project because current law cannot ensure
that human genetic material will not be used in ways that its donors
have not agreed to.

Cavalli-Sforza has been preaching the politically correct
>gospel that the genetic differences between races is insignificant
>while trying to gather blood and DNA samples from native people to
>test for their genetic differences. What gives? More double talk from
>Cavalli-Sforza or is he just trying to save his project? To find out I
>went back to a book he published in 1994:
>The History and Geography of Human Genes
>by L.Luca Cavalli-Sforza (CS), Paolo Menozzi, Alberto Piazza
>1994 by Princeton University Press

Might I suggest that you "go back" to a more basic text on evolution,
since you seem to harbour the delusion that "genetic differences between
the [']races['] is insignificant" means that there is little if any
genetic variation among populations of a single species.  Might I suggest
that you look up and study really hard the words "race" and "population".
Then perhaps if you return to this book, you might mange it less than you
do below.

>{CS}>(page 4)If we know that there exist different genetic types of a
>specific protein or other strictly inherited character, we can count
>individuals carrying one type or the other and establish the
>proportions of that type in the population being examined.  These
>proportions vary from one population to another because they change
>over time in each population in a relatively unpredictable manner.
>The change in proportions of these types over time is the evolutionary
>process itself.  It proceeds slowly but incessantly over generations.
>The analysis of populations living today in different places gives us
>a cross section in time of this continuing process, which is
>inevitably diverse in the various parts of the inhabited Earth.

>{MN} I interpret this to mean that genetic differences in fact do vary
>between population groups that are separated geographically, and
>population groups that are separated geographically for a long enough
>period of time fall into the classification of race/subspecies/breed
>and now the politically correct "population group." I guess by
>changing terms we can claim that there is no such thing as race.

Uh, no, Mr. Nuenke, Cavalli-Sforza is not talking about the general
process of speciation but instead about the specific evolutionary
processes that appear to account for known existing variation among
human populations.  That they vary does *not* mean that they constitute
"races" in the biological sense, or that they will become "races" in
the biological sense.

>{CS}Our primary interest is in understanding this evolutionary
>process.  The first task is to describe the existing variation, using
>a variety of techniques that lend themselves to this work and allow us
>to test the relevant evolutionary models.  We restrict our interest to
>aboriginal populations, which we define as those already living in the
>area of study in A.D. 1492. After this time, geographic discoveries
>stimulated the expansion and migrations of the economically more
>advanced populations all over the planet.  Some movement took place
>before A.D. 1492, but at a smaller scale.  Ordinarily, populations
>that migrated after that date have mixed only partially with earlier
>residents and are easily recognizable on the basis of physical
>appearance and historical and social knowledge.  They, and some
>populations that are highly isolated and/or have had a complex
>history-such as Samaritans, Jews, Gypsies, and several others-need
>special study and are not considered in this book.

>{MN} My understanding is that he wants to "understand this
>evolutionary process." What process? Speciation, where a species
>separated by culture or geography starts separating genetically? But
>he argues vehemently that he believes there are no significant
>differences between these populations. Then what is he studying? He
>seems to be very confused about evolution.

Again, you need to read very carefully an introduction to population
genetics.  In population genetics, evolution is changes in gene 
frequencies.  Period.

[remainder deleted.  I don't have the time right now, and it seems
Mr. Nuenke doesn't have the basic knowledge.  By the way, if you are
going to call the world's foremost population geneticist by his first
name, you could at least get it right - its "Luca", not "Luci".  And
I truly do think that he understands evolution far better than you do.]


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 24 11:14:58 PDT 1996
Article: 50865 of alt.discrimination
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.activism,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Cavalli-Sforza runs for racialist cover to save his genetic program.
Date: 23 Jul 1996 13:44:05 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 58
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Kegger@ix.netcom.com (Matt Neunke) wrote:
>On 22 Jul 1996 19:39:43 GMT, Laura Finsten
> wrote:

>>Nuenke@sprynet.com (Matt Nuenke) wrote:

>>>Cavalli-Sforza is the father of the Human Genome Diversity Project
>>>that wants to genetically map over 40 ethnic communities. Now that
>>>project is coming under attack. The Los Angeles Times (7/7/96) reports
>>>that "Indigenous Peoples Resist Worldwide Gene Study;  Ethics: Native
>>>Americans, Australian aborigines and others worry about victimization
>>>by science and commercial interests of diversity project." What is the
>>>story here? 

>>The "story", as you so surreptitiously put it, is that people are 
>>concerned about their genetic material being expropriated and used
>>for financial gain by genetic-engineering and pharmaceutical companies
>>without their permission, without their benefiting from this use of
>>their genes.

>So they can sell their genes. Anyone want to offer me money for some
>of my genes? (Probably only if I promise not to propogate them.) What
>a bogus argument. I'm sure all these ignorant aborigines are sitting
>around cotemplating the value of their genes and what they might bring
>on the free market if they maintained control. How foolish. Everyone
>knows the Jewish reaserchers would never take advantage of these poor
>souls. That would be so unlike Jewish historical cuture to exploit the
>stupid natives for financial gain.


And it seems so like you, from what I have gleaned from your posts,
to use the adjective "stupid" to describe natives.  That you might
chosse to offer up your genetic material under the circumstances 
surrounding this project does not obviate the fact that it presents
some very fundamental ethical as well as potential legal dilemmas.

What if your genetic material were used in reproductive technology,
Mr. Nuenke, and the resulting offspring might have moral and legal
claims on you in the future?  Would you be so magnanimous if billions
were made from your genes and you gained nothing, financially?  Is
it possible that you might baulk if you were to discover that your
genetic material were to be used for purposes you found highly 
objectionable?

Perhaps none of these possibilities troubles you.  However, they do
trouble many other people, including those medical and scientific
researchers who are concerned about ethical issues that always arise
when human subjects are used.  The issue of informed consent is
paramount, and is compounded by the different cultural backgrounds of
the majority of the intended subjects of the study, not to mention
the uncertainty about the potential future uses to which their 
genetic material might be put.  


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 24 22:02:52 PDT 1996
Article: 37036 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Small things amuse small minds (was: Funny to deny the holocaust!)
Date: 24 Jul 1996 12:28:47 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 59
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:
>> bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>>>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) dribbles:

[...]

>What POSSIBLE interest did the U.S. have in getting
>dragged into a European war?

I may not remember my WWII history correctly, so I hope someone who
knows better will jump in if I am wrong.  I thought that, the US 
having declared war on Japan after Pearl Harbour, Germany declared 
war on the US.  So the US didn't have a choice in the matter, at
that point.  
   
>>>> Please tell me who the "jingoistic jews" were who prompted Britain's
>>>> and Canada's declarations of war on Germany in 1939, Mr. Griswold.    
 
>>>There you have yet more liberal goofiness.  Fester, Fester, Fester, it
>>>would hardly be a conspiracy if it was widely known, now would it?  The
>>>jews are, and were, not so brazen as to openly meddle in Aryan affairs. 
>>>They'd sneak their brethren in, slowly but surely, and exercise control in
>>>that manner.  That it was indirect and often unofficial makes it no less real.
 
>> I would really like to understand your position on this, Mr. Griswold.

>I doubt this.  I doubt it very much.  You'd just like the opportunity to
>ask "are you saying... ?", not realizing what a retard you sound like.

>> Are you actually arguing that, in Canada in the 1930s when there were
>> quotas limiting the number of Jews who could be admitted to medical schools
>> and other professional programmes, when there were by-laws prohibiting Jews
>> from buying houses in many city neighbourhoods, and when there were 
>> extremely restrictive immigration laws making it almost impossible for
>> Jews to be admitted to Canada despite the events in Germany...  Are you
>> saying that at the same time that was the reality of life in Canada for
>> Jews, Canadian Jews were working behind the scenes to direct political
>> policy?!?!?!?

>Of course not, asshole.  Canada was insignificant back in 1939.  When the
>British said frog, Canada jumped.  Why would jews waste their time with
>what amounted to a colonial backwater?

No, in fact Canada made its own declaration of war, Mr. Griswold.  But
apart from that, then how do you explain the Chamberlain government's
ineffective (well, in your mind, probably "appropriate") response to
Hitler's rearming in violation of the Versailles treaty and aggression 
against other European states?  How do you explain the British declaration
of war under Churchill's government?  Just who were the Jews who you
allege were able to manipulate Churchill's government but, apparently,
not the previous one under Chamberlain?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 25 06:39:07 PDT 1996
Article: 53018 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:39:34 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t2mpv$gd@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4t4qci$eg7@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> 
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

[...]

>Annie:
 
>Welcome to the club! You and Hilary (ONE L, HILARY!!!) and I are part of a
>very select group. Our logic is so crystal-clear, and our debating style
>so precise that we have belittled Mr. Giwer and brought his to the basest
>of all attacks so far.

Hey, he called me fatbroad too!!  Couldn't answer my question about
cranial fusion, so he decided to try to insult me.

>His fixation with the women here would, in my opinion, draw only one
>obvious conclusion: tiny penis.


Who knows, but "fathead" works well for me.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 25 07:37:17 PDT 1996
Article: 84393 of can.general
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: tor.general,soc.culture.canada,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,can.jobs,van.jobs,ab.general,ab.jobs,sask.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:30:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bt351@torfree.net (Geoffrey Gies) wrote:

[...]

>	actually, most of british descent were convicts, and were offered 
>emigration (to present day canada and australia) as an alternative   
>to jail time.

An awful lot of British immigrants to Canada were Scots who were
thrown off their land during the highland clearances.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 25 07:39:27 PDT 1996
Article: 60508 of can.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: tor.general,soc.culture.canada,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,can.jobs,van.jobs,ab.general,ab.jobs,sask.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:30:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4t6imr$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bt351@torfree.net (Geoffrey Gies) wrote:

[...]

>	actually, most of british descent were convicts, and were offered 
>emigration (to present day canada and australia) as an alternative   
>to jail time.

An awful lot of British immigrants to Canada were Scots who were
thrown off their land during the highland clearances.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 25 08:54:57 PDT 1996
Article: 122690 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: tor.general,soc.culture.canada,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,can.jobs,van.jobs,ab.general,ab.jobs,sask.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:30:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bt351@torfree.net (Geoffrey Gies) wrote:

[...]

>	actually, most of british descent were convicts, and were offered 
>emigration (to present day canada and australia) as an alternative   
>to jail time.

An awful lot of British immigrants to Canada were Scots who were
thrown off their land during the highland clearances.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 25 20:02:03 PDT 1996
Article: 53211 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:32:56 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4t6is8$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

[...]

>>>Excuse me.  You have been ordered to turn in the condo.  
>>>Go ahead and sue.
>>>I already have my attorney picked out.


>>Where did you ever get the idea that I *take* orders, McFelinevay?

>We *ALL* take orders from the one true ZOG.  But you know that Finstenstein.


I think its time to hand in my resignation....    


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 25 20:28:57 PDT 1996
Article: 37098 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!torn!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Negro neighbourhoods vs. White neighbourhoods (was: NIGGERS ARE NOT HUMANS)
Date: 24 Jul 1996 12:18:59 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4t54bj$mkf@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]

>There's nothing more pathetic than a white who isn't proud of his heritage.  

You are mistaken if you think that most "non-White" "whites" are not
proud of their heritages, Mr. Griswold.

I think it is rather pathetic that the only way you seem to be able
to think well of yourself is by declaring yourself a member of a 
superior "race".
 

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 11:57:23 PDT 1996
Article: 53392 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer's way with women
Date: 26 Jul 1996 12:06:23 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4tacbv$id0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>In article <4t6j8m$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
> said:


>>Hey, he called me fatbroad too!!  Couldn't answer my question about
>>cranial fusion, so he decided to try to insult me.

>If I am not mistaken, the only people who have been called "fat broad" or
>variously "fatbroad" by Giwer-goo have been Hilary, Annie, Sara and Laura. 
>I must protest at this blatant sexism, and demand reparations immediately. 
>I don't see why *I* can't be called "fatbroad" too.  I'm not female, but
>that's not the point.

>Fair is fair!


Who said life is fair?  Tough cookies, McVeeovthy.  The great thing about
being a woman is that you always get treated specially, and nobody
expects much from you intellectually.  You don't like it?  Have a sex
change operation.                                                                   


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 11:57:24 PDT 1996
Article: 53548 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brown the hypocrite
Date: 25 Jul 1996 22:42:46 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4t8t96$1e8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:
>In <4t6is8$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
> wrote:

>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

[...]

>>>>>Excuse me.  You have been ordered to turn in the condo.  
>>>>>Go ahead and sue.
>>>>>I already have my attorney picked out.

>>>>Where did you ever get the idea that I *take* orders, McFelinevay?

>>>We *ALL* take orders from the one true ZOG.  But you know that Finstenstein.

>>I think its time to hand in my resignation....    

>Oh sure, Finstenstein!  Well, you realize if you resign I'll have to
>reprogram all the damn decoder rings.  Couldn't you just do like I do
>and take the order, file it appropriately, then just carry on?!


Sigh.  All right.  I'll just take the order.  Was that with or without
anchovies?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 11:57:25 PDT 1996
Article: 53622 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The THE himself
Date: 26 Jul 1996 14:18:00 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4tak2o$o0p@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
>In article ,
>schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>> Mr. Giwer just can't keep that little foot out of his mouth, can he?

>Sure doesn't seem like it. It's a rather suprsing feet of contortionism,
>actually, considering that he has his head up his ass.... 

That explains why the bones of the ear are part of the pelvis???


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 12:38:44 PDT 1996
Article: 26179 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 25 Jul 1996 22:49:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <4t8tl8$1e8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:
>: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]


>: What do you consider to be "technology", Mr. Griswold?  Would filigree
>: goldworking constitute evidence of technological capabilities?  Quarrying
>: and working copper and tin?  Shaping tools from volcanic glass, an
>: extremely difficult material to work with, with sharper cutting edges
>: than anything our modern technology is capable of achieving?


>Laura: You left out writing, mathematics, standard weights and
>measures, an accurate calendar, quipu', paved roads, irrigation
>technology superior to that used today, plumbing, and surgery. Les,
>as usual, will not lift his head from the _estercolario_ he stuck it
>in.

Well rats, Fragano, I was saving those for later!!!

[...]

>Do what I do, ask Les for the evidence to back his assertions, and
>then listen to the sound of silence...

Well, he has already said that all he needs is his "real life experience",
and where that lets him down, he refers to Papa Pierce's true history
of the world for the "real story".  He has also said that evidence is
irrelevant.  Blind faith is Mr. Griswold's stock in trade.

>: >(snip)

>: >> So you should have learned not to make gross generalisations based
>: >> on a few cases, or to judge the past by today's standards.

>: >ROTFL!

>: >That's rich, Fester, it really is!  Why, if you liberals would follow that
>: >advice, you'd have nothing to bitch about!

>: Try to put your brain in gear, Mr. Griswold, and think about the
>: standards you use for "evaluating" the accomplishments of humans
>: who don't fall into your cherished "White race".  If you're still
>: rolling on the floor laughing, you're thicker than the walls of
>: Sacsahuaman.

>He's thicker than the Great Wall of China if you ask me.

Hmmm, yeah, I guess that's thicker than Sacsahuaman.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 12:40:51 PDT 1996
Article: 37153 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.society.conservatism
Subject: Re: Niggers
Date: 25 Jul 1996 22:49:12 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <4t8tl8$1e8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Laura Finsten (finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca) wrote:
>: bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:

[...]


>: What do you consider to be "technology", Mr. Griswold?  Would filigree
>: goldworking constitute evidence of technological capabilities?  Quarrying
>: and working copper and tin?  Shaping tools from volcanic glass, an
>: extremely difficult material to work with, with sharper cutting edges
>: than anything our modern technology is capable of achieving?


>Laura: You left out writing, mathematics, standard weights and
>measures, an accurate calendar, quipu', paved roads, irrigation
>technology superior to that used today, plumbing, and surgery. Les,
>as usual, will not lift his head from the _estercolario_ he stuck it
>in.

Well rats, Fragano, I was saving those for later!!!

[...]

>Do what I do, ask Les for the evidence to back his assertions, and
>then listen to the sound of silence...

Well, he has already said that all he needs is his "real life experience",
and where that lets him down, he refers to Papa Pierce's true history
of the world for the "real story".  He has also said that evidence is
irrelevant.  Blind faith is Mr. Griswold's stock in trade.

>: >(snip)

>: >> So you should have learned not to make gross generalisations based
>: >> on a few cases, or to judge the past by today's standards.

>: >ROTFL!

>: >That's rich, Fester, it really is!  Why, if you liberals would follow that
>: >advice, you'd have nothing to bitch about!

>: Try to put your brain in gear, Mr. Griswold, and think about the
>: standards you use for "evaluating" the accomplishments of humans
>: who don't fall into your cherished "White race".  If you're still
>: rolling on the floor laughing, you're thicker than the walls of
>: Sacsahuaman.

>He's thicker than the Great Wall of China if you ask me.

Hmmm, yeah, I guess that's thicker than Sacsahuaman.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 12:40:51 PDT 1996
Article: 37224 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!utcsri!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Small things amuse small minds (was: Funny to deny the holocaust!)
Date: 26 Jul 1996 11:42:29 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4taav5$id0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <4su0vv$cnp@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4suh6v$am1@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <4t1a1u$hq0@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4t8enq$sbf@news1.ucsd.edu>
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:
>Les Griswold (bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

>: > Please tell me who the "jingoistic jews" were who prompted Britain's
>: > and Canada's declarations of war on Germany in 1939, Mr. Griswold.    

>: There you have yet more liberal goofiness.  Fester, Fester, Fester, it
>: would hardly be a conspiracy if it was widely known, now would it?  The
>: jews are, and were, not so brazen as to openly meddle in Aryan affairs. 
>: They'd sneak their brethren in, slowly but surely, and exercise control in
>: that manner.  That it was indirect and often unofficial makes it no less real.

>You made the original assertion, either back it up or stand revealed
>as a liar.


In all honesty, it sounds to me more like extreme paranoia.  "That it was
indirect and unofficial makes it no less real", says Mr. Griswold.  That
nobody except antisemitic white supremacists knows anything about "it"
means which of the following:

(1) antisemitic white supremacists "know" more about the inner workings of
Britain's government during the late prewar WWII and WWII era than anyone
else, including all surviving members of that government and all historians
who have written about the subject,

(2) antisemitic white supremacists will believe anything they are told
by their Papa Pierces, despite the lack of evidence from any other source,
as long as it confirms their antisemitic prejudices,

(3) antisemitic white supremacists will lie through their teeth in their
efforts to promote their cause.

Take your time, and think through your answer very carefully.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sat Jul 27 12:40:52 PDT 1996
Article: 37268 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Yet more Griswold Logic(tm)
Date: 26 Jul 1996 11:51:22 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4tabfq$id0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4t8d2r$fap@bell.maths.tcd.ie> 
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joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg) wrote:


>It's all very simple.   If somebody can't immediately produce a citation Les 
>demands, that's because it doesn't exist.  If they can, it's irrelevant.  If 
>two people describe something even trivially differently, that's because 
>whichever one Les chooses is lying.  If two people agree, it's a conspiracy.  
>If there's no evidence whatsoever for it, it's a well-concealed conspiracy.  


Yes, the ol' alpha-zeta frequency ZOG is trying out on the collander this
month seems to be working quite well.  And maybe Mr. Griswold took the
tin foil off because it was too glaringly obvious in the summer sun.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Sun Jul 28 08:05:12 PDT 1996
Article: 50941 of alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: tor.general,soc.culture.canada,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,can.jobs,van.jobs,ab.general,ab.jobs,sask.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:30:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4t6imr$ns0@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4s71j3$vpu@cuugnet.cuug.ab.ca>   <4ses7t$kn9@wpg-01.escape.ca> <4sf1k7$427@news.inforamp.net> <4sjf2s$229@draco.bison.mb.ca> <4sq9p9$7qe@news 
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bt351@torfree.net (Geoffrey Gies) wrote:

[...]

>	actually, most of british descent were convicts, and were offered 
>emigration (to present day canada and australia) as an alternative   
>to jail time.

An awful lot of British immigrants to Canada were Scots who were
thrown off their land during the highland clearances.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:47 PDT 1996
Article: 54104 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McFlea
Date: 28 Jul 1996 23:46:43 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4tgu53$4dv@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4t25lq$gs4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4t2mpv$gd@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4tadum$4bja@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <26JUL199618455400@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>In article <4tadum$4bja@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net writes...
 
>>You might say that Mattie-poo is unarmed in a battle of wits?  :-)
 
>>Next he'll be calling me fatbroad.

>    That's nothing.  When Michael Keaton posted here, Giwer called him a
>    batfraud.

>    {duck}


Y'oughta!!  At least that description is accurate.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:48 PDT 1996
Article: 54152 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Les the Genius
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:12:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4tidbp$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References:  <120309Z24071996@anon.penet.fi>  <090309Z26071996@anon.penet.fi>  <164309Z27071996@anon.penet.fi>  <120319Z29071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:
>schwartz@infinet.com writes:

>> In article <164309Z27071996@anon.penet.fi>, an572010@anon.penet.fi wrote:
 
>> > schwartz@infinet.com writes:
 
>> > > In article <090309Z26071996@anon.penet.fi>, an572010@anon.penet.fi wrote:
 
>> > > > Jews are child molesters.  Racists will stop Jews.
 
>> > > Really? ALL JEWS?! Fascinating.
  
>> > > And your source for this piece of idiocy is... ?
 
>> > Mark Alstine, Andrew Mathis, Joel Rosenberg and Mike Beebe proved it.
 
>> Do you mean Mark Van Alstine?
  
>> Mark, when did you prove that all Jews are child molesters?
  
>> Andrew, when did you prove that all Jews are child molesters?
  
>> Joel, when did you prove that all Jews are child molesters?
  
>> Mike, when did you prove that all Jews are child molesters?
  
>> You didn't prove it? I didn't think so. So, in other words, our little
>> anon troll is not only lying, he's slandering the four of you.

>Baby, they proved it with their obssession with perverse sexual fantasies,
>not least of it, child molesting.


Uh, just a minute.  Are you saying that Mark Van Alstine's posts prove
that he has perverse sexual fantasies?  And that from this, in part,
you deduce that "all Jews are child molesters"?  Whether or not Mr.
Van Alstine's posts have sexual references, there is a fundamental
flaw in your reasoning, "Mr. Vyshinsky".  Mark Van Alstine is not
Jewish.

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:49 PDT 1996
Article: 54154 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:37:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4tieql$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com>  <4suib0$dfq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31F3D44B.6B72@scott.net> <31F51A9A.4C3B@vegas.infi.net> <4t4avt$29c@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31F7043B.638@scott.net> <31F9D471.240C@vegas.infi.net> <4tc51c$3rn@blackice.winternet.com> <024319Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>These times are so plagued by conformity that it gets hard to
>believe that people used to found movements and sacrifice
>themselves based on intellectual ideas.  For instance, 65% of
>the German people in the early 17th century had to die just
>for the sake of establishing a competitor to the church.  Race
>must be fought for, so our intellects are no longer suppressed
>by color.


That explains it.  "Mr. Vyshinsky's" intellect is suppressed
by colour.  Try Antarctica on June 21, if all that white doesn't
boost your IQ into the normal range, then there is no hope
for you whatsoever.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:50 PDT 1996
Article: 54155 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:19:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4tidou$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4tbdhh$soa@news.ecn.bgu.edu> <4tdlm4$a8h@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <4thcp1$r30@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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solveit@ix.netcom.com(Harry Petersen ) wrote:

[deletia]



>            Please note that immigration is not bad, per se. It's only
>problematic when different people of different races are brought into a
>country or when people of the same race refuse to assimilate over a
>period of time. So your reference to immigration does not refute my
>original claim that Only White-controlled cultures have Capitalism; to
>the contrary, this re-inforces the claim.

How are you defining "capitalism"?  There are far more capitalist than
non-capitalist countries in the world.  If you are saying that
those countries that are currently described, variously, as undeveloped,
underdeveloped, or "Third World" are *not* capitalist, you are flat
out wrong.  Every Latin American country is capitalist.  The vast
majority of Southeast and South Asian countries are capitalist.  Are
you saying that they are "White-controlled"?

[...]           


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:51 PDT 1996
Article: 54168 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Run Everything
Date: 29 Jul 1996 14:05:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4tigfc$ni8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com>    <24JUL199618165187@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>  <054306Z27071996@anon.penet.fi>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2120 alt.revisionism:54168

an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>Jews own the financial world, the media, and the ultimate in the
>Jewish genotype, the financial media.  This justifies racism.

Has the human genome project finally located the gene for the
financial media?  That one has been a real stickler for years,
and I'm really glad to see they've finally sorted it out.  I
was under the impression that geneticists were still unsure
about the kind of genetic trait financial media is, though.
So like is it an autosomal dominant trait, or what?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:52 PDT 1996
Article: 54170 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!admaix.sunydutchess.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: PlsDon'tAdressMeAnymore
Date: 29 Jul 1996 14:01:47 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4tig8b$ni8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4tbk2d$1uh@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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kesha2@ix.netcom.com(Janet) wrote:

>Sara, lets not be naive here. The blacks help the blacks, the Irish
>the Irish and the jews help the jews. It happens all the time and is
>perfectly normal, in it's infancy and when it's ambitions
>are not overwhelming. The Italian Mafia, for example, took this too
>far. And the jews currently are as well.
>    They are not at the top of society because they are particularly
>intelligent but because they are particularly cunning.
>    Jewish individuals exist, as I'm sure Italian
>individuals existed, however, the amount of conspirators greatly outweighs the individuals, at this particular moment in history.


Janet, let's not be paranoid here.  Could you please explain this
last paragraph here?  Are you saying that there are no longer
"Italian individuals"?  That's gonna come as something of a
surprise to all the folks I know of Italian ancestry, but maybe
you could break the news to them that they don't exist.  

Could you also provide some evidence (you know what "evidence"
is, don't you?) to back up your "claim" that there *is* a 
Jewish conspiracy, let along that "the amount [sic] of [Jewish]
conspirators greatly outweighs the individuals..."

Or is this more "fat broad" stuff?


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:06:52 PDT 1996
Article: 54203 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:39:16 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 16
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References: <31F2BDE2.447C@ix.netcom.com>  <4suib0$dfq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <31F3D44B.6B72@scott.net> <31F51A9A.4C3B@vegas.infi.net> <4t4avt$29c@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31F7043B.638@scott.net> <4tehtd$qtk@opera.iinet.net.au> <110314Z29071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>Race is everything.

The bastion of the truly bereft.  When you've got nothing
else, cling to the false notion that you must be OK because
you belong to the "right race".

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:36:22 PDT 1996
Article: 37565 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:31:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <4tieg7$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4t2qun$5sv@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31f5028a.11507721@news.pacificnet.net> <4t3jkt$hh1@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <140318Z25071996@anon.penet.fi>  <164319Z27071996@anon.penet.fi>  <144302Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>  <040309Z29071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[deletia]

>I made the post out of retaliation of the systematic
>destruction of the newsgroup alt.politics.white-power
>by Jewish opponants of existance of the newsgroup,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>such as joelr@winternet.com, stukafox@best.com,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>jeannek@rio.com, fresh@panix.com, llurch@stanford.edu,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca, etc. who violently
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>threaten patrons of the newsgroup, intimidating
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>readers away.  Do you want to be threatened with rape,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>homicide, firing, harassment by telephone, mail,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to home, employers, profressors, etc. for merely
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>posting your opinions, even if they are controversial,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Mr. Vyshinsky", how would you like to substantiate
the allegations you make above with some of that stuff
called evidence?  You know, documented citations from
the posts of the people you are accusing of *criminal*
acts to demonstrate that what you have written here is
true, rather than defamatory and libellous.

By the way, I don't know who some of the folks you
mention are but Ken McVay, at least, is not Jewish.
He is also very vocally against censorship and is
very much in favour of the existence of these newsgroups.
I agree with him that letting you spew your garbage
publically like this works very strongly against
your "cause".


>to the proper and belonging newsgroup?  Well, you will
>be, as every harassing post initiated by the above and
>the dozen or so others involved in the scheme to
>eliminate alt.politics.white-power, will be crossposted
>to soc.culture.jewish, and you can witness for yourself
>the untruths, threats and harassments by your own kind
>practice when drunkenly getting carried away.  Complaints
>to admins don't work, as we are "subhuman racist hate
>artists who deserve to die."  And if our group is fully
>destroyed, we'll simply move our racist posts to some other
>large popular well carried newsgroup, such as soc.culture.jewish.
>I and others promise to include accurate identification of the
>net abusers at the beginning of the posts.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:36:23 PDT 1996
Article: 37566 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:37:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>These times are so plagued by conformity that it gets hard to
>believe that people used to found movements and sacrifice
>themselves based on intellectual ideas.  For instance, 65% of
>the German people in the early 17th century had to die just
>for the sake of establishing a competitor to the church.  Race
>must be fought for, so our intellects are no longer suppressed
>by color.


That explains it.  "Mr. Vyshinsky's" intellect is suppressed
by colour.  Try Antarctica on June 21, if all that white doesn't
boost your IQ into the normal range, then there is no hope
for you whatsoever.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:36:24 PDT 1996
Article: 37567 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:19:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4tidou$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4tbdhh$soa@news.ecn.bgu.edu> <4tdlm4$a8h@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <4thcp1$r30@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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solveit@ix.netcom.com(Harry Petersen ) wrote:

[deletia]



>            Please note that immigration is not bad, per se. It's only
>problematic when different people of different races are brought into a
>country or when people of the same race refuse to assimilate over a
>period of time. So your reference to immigration does not refute my
>original claim that Only White-controlled cultures have Capitalism; to
>the contrary, this re-inforces the claim.

How are you defining "capitalism"?  There are far more capitalist than
non-capitalist countries in the world.  If you are saying that
those countries that are currently described, variously, as undeveloped,
underdeveloped, or "Third World" are *not* capitalist, you are flat
out wrong.  Every Latin American country is capitalist.  The vast
majority of Southeast and South Asian countries are capitalist.  Are
you saying that they are "White-controlled"?

[...]           


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:36:25 PDT 1996
Article: 37587 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:39:16 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>Race is everything.

The bastion of the truly bereft.  When you've got nothing
else, cling to the false notion that you must be OK because
you belong to the "right race".

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:39:57 PDT 1996
Article: 72200 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:37:25 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>These times are so plagued by conformity that it gets hard to
>believe that people used to found movements and sacrifice
>themselves based on intellectual ideas.  For instance, 65% of
>the German people in the early 17th century had to die just
>for the sake of establishing a competitor to the church.  Race
>must be fought for, so our intellects are no longer suppressed
>by color.


That explains it.  "Mr. Vyshinsky's" intellect is suppressed
by colour.  Try Antarctica on June 21, if all that white doesn't
boost your IQ into the normal range, then there is no hope
for you whatsoever.




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:39:58 PDT 1996
Article: 72204 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:19:26 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4tidou$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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solveit@ix.netcom.com(Harry Petersen ) wrote:

[deletia]



>            Please note that immigration is not bad, per se. It's only
>problematic when different people of different races are brought into a
>country or when people of the same race refuse to assimilate over a
>period of time. So your reference to immigration does not refute my
>original claim that Only White-controlled cultures have Capitalism; to
>the contrary, this re-inforces the claim.

How are you defining "capitalism"?  There are far more capitalist than
non-capitalist countries in the world.  If you are saying that
those countries that are currently described, variously, as undeveloped,
underdeveloped, or "Third World" are *not* capitalist, you are flat
out wrong.  Every Latin American country is capitalist.  The vast
majority of Southeast and South Asian countries are capitalist.  Are
you saying that they are "White-controlled"?

[...]           


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:39:59 PDT 1996
Article: 72261 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Laura Finsten 
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Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:39:16 GMT
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>Race is everything.

The bastion of the truly bereft.  When you've got nothing
else, cling to the false notion that you must be OK because
you belong to the "right race".

[...]

"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 29 14:55:48 PDT 1996
Article: 2120 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Run Everything
Date: 29 Jul 1996 14:05:32 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4tigfc$ni8@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

[...]

>Jews own the financial world, the media, and the ultimate in the
>Jewish genotype, the financial media.  This justifies racism.

Has the human genome project finally located the gene for the
financial media?  That one has been a real stickler for years,
and I'm really glad to see they've finally sorted it out.  I
was under the impression that geneticists were still unsure
about the kind of genetic trait financial media is, though.
So like is it an autosomal dominant trait, or what?



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 30 08:13:31 PDT 1996
Article: 26422 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:31:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 61
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References: <4t2qun$5sv@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31f5028a.11507721@news.pacificnet.net> <4t3jkt$hh1@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <140318Z25071996@anon.penet.fi>  <164319Z27071996@anon.penet.fi>  <144302Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>  <040309Z29071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[deletia]

>I made the post out of retaliation of the systematic
>destruction of the newsgroup alt.politics.white-power
>by Jewish opponants of existance of the newsgroup,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>such as joelr@winternet.com, stukafox@best.com,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>jeannek@rio.com, fresh@panix.com, llurch@stanford.edu,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca, etc. who violently
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>threaten patrons of the newsgroup, intimidating
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>readers away.  Do you want to be threatened with rape,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>homicide, firing, harassment by telephone, mail,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to home, employers, profressors, etc. for merely
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>posting your opinions, even if they are controversial,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Mr. Vyshinsky", how would you like to substantiate
the allegations you make above with some of that stuff
called evidence?  You know, documented citations from
the posts of the people you are accusing of *criminal*
acts to demonstrate that what you have written here is
true, rather than defamatory and libellous.

By the way, I don't know who some of the folks you
mention are but Ken McVay, at least, is not Jewish.
He is also very vocally against censorship and is
very much in favour of the existence of these newsgroups.
I agree with him that letting you spew your garbage
publically like this works very strongly against
your "cause".


>to the proper and belonging newsgroup?  Well, you will
>be, as every harassing post initiated by the above and
>the dozen or so others involved in the scheme to
>eliminate alt.politics.white-power, will be crossposted
>to soc.culture.jewish, and you can witness for yourself
>the untruths, threats and harassments by your own kind
>practice when drunkenly getting carried away.  Complaints
>to admins don't work, as we are "subhuman racist hate
>artists who deserve to die."  And if our group is fully
>destroyed, we'll simply move our racist posts to some other
>large popular well carried newsgroup, such as soc.culture.jewish.
>I and others promise to include accurate identification of the
>net abusers at the beginning of the posts.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 30 08:21:12 PDT 1996
Article: 37662 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Linford Christy throws temper tantrum,Bad loser?
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:48:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 27
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fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) wrote:

>bruce c. sneddon (bruce-c-sneddon@easynet.co.uk) wrote:

>: I heard oin the radion this morning that Linford Christy
>: the black Olympic athlete had lost "his"gold medal to a white
>: (?)Canadian runner.He tried to cheat twice but it didnt work
>: he knew he was beat and so threw a childish  and futile
>: temper tantrum.To be expected I suppose.

>Christie (note spelling) was disqualified for coming off the
>blocks too fast. He felt that he was being unfairly treated, and
>prostested.

>The winner, however, was a _black_ Canadian runner, born in Jamaica
>(and thus belonging to the same ethnic group as Christie).  The
>silver medallist was a Namibian, and the bronze was won by a
>Trinidadian.


Yes, let's hear it for Donovan Bailey, the fastest man alive.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Tue Jul 30 20:36:21 PDT 1996
Article: 54482 of alt.revisionism
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From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: mn.politics,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.usa,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.c
Subject: Re: You Can _Never_ Have Too Much Diversity (ADV)
Date: 30 Jul 1996 15:34:08 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>solveit@ix.netcom.com(Harry Petersen ) wrote:
 
[deletia]
>>>            Please note that immigration is not bad, per se. It's only
>>>problematic when different people of different races are brought into a
>>>country or when people of the same race refuse to assimilate over a
>>>period of time....

>    Those darn Chinese.  Three generations of immigration into the US...
>    and they're still Chinese!  Heaven forbid one of THEM try to marry into
>    my family...


Yeah, I mean really!!!  If they truly wanted to assimilate, the least
they could do would be to give up those darn, distinctive epicanthic
eye folds.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 31 13:58:30 PDT 1996
Article: 54605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Khazars
Date: 30 Jul 1996 15:37:41 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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Marty Kelley  wrote:
>On Mon, 29 Jul 1996 schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>> And please explain how potatoes are part of the Seder?

>I believe that has something to do with the Tribe of Blarney, who
>traditionally left a pint of Guiness by the door for the prophet O'Lisha.


Actually, it originated with the veneration of Inti by the Inka,
who traditionally poured chicha (corn beer) down the "golden gullet"
in the central plaza at Cuzco.  And had chuño (freeze-dried potatoes)
on the side.  No vinegar, please.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 31 14:19:11 PDT 1996
Article: 26507 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 30 Jul 1996 13:16:46 GMT
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jeannek@rio.com (Jeanne Kowalewski) wrote:

[...]

>While I admit to owning an "Official ZOG Agent" teeshirt, I am not Jewish.

Cool!!!  Where can I get one?

>BTW, I have been threatened with rape and homocide on Usenet and via
>e-mail since finding myself knee deep in Aryan culture here and, *yes*, I
>do have archives. If y'all master race types can't put forth a credible
>argument, don't blame the lib'ruls for showing you to be illogical
>buffoons.

Yeah, my impression too was that the direction in which threats flow
is backwards in the original "article".




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 31 14:27:04 PDT 1996
Article: 37711 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 30 Jul 1996 13:16:46 GMT
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jeannek@rio.com (Jeanne Kowalewski) wrote:

[...]

>While I admit to owning an "Official ZOG Agent" teeshirt, I am not Jewish.

Cool!!!  Where can I get one?

>BTW, I have been threatened with rape and homocide on Usenet and via
>e-mail since finding myself knee deep in Aryan culture here and, *yes*, I
>do have archives. If y'all master race types can't put forth a credible
>argument, don't blame the lib'ruls for showing you to be illogical
>buffoons.

Yeah, my impression too was that the direction in which threats flow
is backwards in the original "article".




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 31 15:10:33 PDT 1996
Article: 65182 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!kone!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 29 Jul 1996 13:31:51 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <4tieg7$mf9@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>
References: <4t2qun$5sv@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31f5028a.11507721@news.pacificnet.net> <4t3jkt$hh1@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <140318Z25071996@anon.penet.fi>  <164319Z27071996@anon.penet.fi>  <144302Z28071996@anon.penet.fi>  <040309Z29071996@anon.penet.fi>
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (The honourable Vyshinsky) wrote:

[deletia]

>I made the post out of retaliation of the systematic
>destruction of the newsgroup alt.politics.white-power
>by Jewish opponants of existance of the newsgroup,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>such as joelr@winternet.com, stukafox@best.com,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>jeannek@rio.com, fresh@panix.com, llurch@stanford.edu,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca, etc. who violently
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>threaten patrons of the newsgroup, intimidating
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>readers away.  Do you want to be threatened with rape,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>homicide, firing, harassment by telephone, mail,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to home, employers, profressors, etc. for merely
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>posting your opinions, even if they are controversial,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"Mr. Vyshinsky", how would you like to substantiate
the allegations you make above with some of that stuff
called evidence?  You know, documented citations from
the posts of the people you are accusing of *criminal*
acts to demonstrate that what you have written here is
true, rather than defamatory and libellous.

By the way, I don't know who some of the folks you
mention are but Ken McVay, at least, is not Jewish.
He is also very vocally against censorship and is
very much in favour of the existence of these newsgroups.
I agree with him that letting you spew your garbage
publically like this works very strongly against
your "cause".


>to the proper and belonging newsgroup?  Well, you will
>be, as every harassing post initiated by the above and
>the dozen or so others involved in the scheme to
>eliminate alt.politics.white-power, will be crossposted
>to soc.culture.jewish, and you can witness for yourself
>the untruths, threats and harassments by your own kind
>practice when drunkenly getting carried away.  Complaints
>to admins don't work, as we are "subhuman racist hate
>artists who deserve to die."  And if our group is fully
>destroyed, we'll simply move our racist posts to some other
>large popular well carried newsgroup, such as soc.culture.jewish.
>I and others promise to include accurate identification of the
>net abusers at the beginning of the posts.



"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 31 15:10:34 PDT 1996
Article: 65456 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!bcarh189.bnr.ca!nrchh45.rich.nt.com!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!news.drenet.dnd.ca!crc-news.doc.ca!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: mvanalst@rbi.com a nazi asshole
Date: 30 Jul 1996 13:16:46 GMT
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jeannek@rio.com (Jeanne Kowalewski) wrote:

[...]

>While I admit to owning an "Official ZOG Agent" teeshirt, I am not Jewish.

Cool!!!  Where can I get one?

>BTW, I have been threatened with rape and homocide on Usenet and via
>e-mail since finding myself knee deep in Aryan culture here and, *yes*, I
>do have archives. If y'all master race types can't put forth a credible
>argument, don't blame the lib'ruls for showing you to be illogical
>buffoons.

Yeah, my impression too was that the direction in which threats flow
is backwards in the original "article".




"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman




From finsten@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Wed Jul 31 17:33:52 PDT 1996
Article: 94728 of soc.culture.canada
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!nott!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!usenet
From: Laura Finsten 
Newsgroups: tor.general,soc.culture.canada,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.immigration.canada,misc.immigration.misc,can.general,can.politics,can.jobs,van.jobs,ab.general,ab.jobs,sask.general,man.general
Subject: Re: The haters have problems: internal problems.
Date: 25 Jul 1996 01:30:03 GMT
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (NewServer)
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bt351@torfree.net (Geoffrey Gies) wrote:

[...]

>	actually, most of british descent were convicts, and were offered 
>emigration (to present day canada and australia) as an alternative   
>to jail time.

An awful lot of British immigrants to Canada were Scots who were
thrown off their land during the highland clearances.


"If I can't dance.....I don't want to be part of your revolution."
          Emma Goldman





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