The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/f/fens.meldon/2008/meldon.200802


From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 21 18:45:40 EST 2008
Article: 1574920 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: "Kenneth McVay OBC" - Whack Job
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:46:45 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rrbj1djbqld57@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rqc43iucgmua0@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rq7am1dn491f0@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>Total nut-job thinks 20 million jews killed in the holocaust.
>>>
>>> Really? Then you will have no problem documenting that assertion,
>>> will you?
>>
>>Hmmm.. how to document the assertion that you're a nut-job. I'll have to
>>think about that one.
>
> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
> in the Holocaust.
>

So you deny the holocaust? 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 21 18:45:40 EST 2008
Article: 1574997 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:42:14 -0500
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"Doug"  wrote in message 
news:dlkvj.7232$Ru4.433@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
> "VJay"  wrote in message 
> news:nlhrr3tua4r135vhb3vfhb4v418v76dd6l@4ax.com...
>>
>> Tuesday, February 19, 2008
>>
>> Huxley Warned US: Part 4
>>
>> See the preamble from Part 1 if you haven't already.
>>
>> The joke of modern 'democracy'...
>>
>> Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, 1958:
>>
>> "In a capitalist democracy, such as the United States, [the entire
>> economic process] is controlled by what Professor C. Wright Mills has
>> called the 'Power Elite.' This Power Elite directly employs several
>> millions of the country's work force in its factories, offices and
>> stores, controls many mil-lions more by lending them the money to buy
>> its products and, through its ownership of the media of mass
>> communication, influences the thoughts, the feelings and the actions
>> of virtually everybody. To parody the words of Winston Churchill,
>> never have so many been manipulated so much by so few. We are far
>> indeed from Jefferson's ideal of a genuinely free society composed of
>> a hierarchy of self -governing units - 'the elementary republics of
>> the wards, the county republics, the State republics and the Republic
>> of the Union, forming a gradation of authorities.'
>>
>> "We see, then, that modern technology has led to the concentration of
>> economic and political power, and to the development of a society
>> controlled (ruthlessly in the totalitarian states, politely and
>> inconspicuously in the democracies) by Big Business and Big
>> Government. But societies are composed of individuals and are good
>> only in so far as they help individuals to realize their
>> potentialities and to lead a happy and fruitful life. How have
>> individuals been affected by the technological advances of recent
>> years? Here is the answer to this question given by a philosopher-
>> psychiatrist, Dr Erich Fromm: 'Our contemporary Western society, in
>> spite of its material, intellectual and political progress, is
>> increasingly less conducive to mental health, and tends to undermine
>> the inner security, happiness, reason and the capacity for love in the
>> individual; it tends to turn him into an automaton who pays for his
>> human failure with increasing mental sickness, and with despair hidden
>> under a frantic drive for work and so-called pleasure.' "
>>
>> Well, nothing much has changed in the intervening 50 years, we can
>> plainly see - save perhaps the intensity of this on-going
>> manipulation.
>>
>> Huxley correctly identifies that Big Government and Big Business are
>> working hand-in-hand in a manner that brings nothing but ill for the
>> broad mass of the population. Though purportedly working in OUR best
>> interests, it is increasingly clear, even to those of little
>> perception, that the government is doing quite the opposite and this
>> outrageous state of affairs has been the norm for very many decades.
>> Yet every few years, we shuffle like battery chickens into the polling
>> booths in the delusion that our wishes and needs count for anything.
>> We are simply rubber-stamping the authority of enemies who would
>> happily throw our children into the jaws of ravenous wolves if it
>> served their purposes. No one gets nominated for a shot at the
>> presidency who isn't already pre-approved for the post by Jewish-
>> controlled entities. Come November, we will be presented with the
>> usual choice: a candidate who is slavishly pro-Israel (Obama) or one
>> who is actively so (McCain). Either way, WE THE PEOPLE (for whom it's
>> all supposed to be about) LOSE. Our democracy has been stolen. We get
>> the last word; the final say; but it's meaningless because whoever
>> wins, it's always another sock-puppet of Israel - then it's swiftly
>> back to business as usual.
>>
>
> A great essay until you got to this last paragraph. Delusions about the 
> world-wide
> Jewish cabal/conspiracy being committed by 15 millions Jews destroyed 
> whatever
> point you were trying to make.
>

I have heard many respectable and well educated individuals among them a 
Rabbi and ex-president of a prominent jewish organization interviewed by 
Bill Moyers, state quite clearly that the jewish lobby in the United States 
is *the* most powerful lobby and that no one running for presidential office 
who does not meet their approval will be elected.

www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/

Eighty years ago Henry Ford wrote his articles in the newspaper he founded 
in which he railed against this clique and of the damage it causes and its 
potential to destroy nations. Numerous examples exist where people have 
attempted to warn of this danger through history.

The allegation that such claims are delusional seems to be getting quite 
worn by now. More people are coming up against this hidden leviathan only to 
find that which has been unthinkable is in fact occurring and has been 
repeated throughout the approximate last 2500 years.

Not that numbers account for much when secret destruction is concerned, but 
I for one am highly doubtful that numbers associated with jewish populations 
are patently false. I've seen varying "official" sources claiming numbers 
that vary greatly and therefore with an obvious discrepancy dealing with 
these figures, none can be assumed correct.

Simply put, there is far too much evidence and public awareness at this 
point that to believe jewish interests are not being served before anything 
else, one would have to be delusional.


Patrick Buchanan writes: "A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our 
country in a series of
wars that are not in America's interest" - 2003
 http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html



"The Aryans will enlarge and beautify the earth; but they will settle to
enjoy the world which they created only in the tents of the Jews. These
tents are communism, internationalism, the universal brotherhood of man, the
emancipation of the working class and the human society - a society of free
and morally autonomous rational human beings. The destiny of the Aryans is
to become Jews" - Rabbi Harry Waton, A Program For The Jews, 1939

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/ 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 21 18:45:41 EST 2008
Article: 1574998 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: "Kenneth McVay OBC" - Whack Job
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:52:43 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rrio6nlbfa920@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rrduu9ccr7bf9@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rrbj1djbqld57@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rqc43iucgmua0@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>news:13rq7am1dn491f0@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> In article <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>Total nut-job thinks 20 million jews killed in the holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really? Then you will have no problem documenting that assertion,
>>>>> will you?
>>>>
>>>>Hmmm.. how to document the assertion that you're a nut-job. I'll have to
>>>>think about that one.
>
>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>> in the Holocaust.
>
>>So you deny the holocaust?
>
> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
> in the Holocaust. Prove I've said that.
>
> I'll just sit here and wait.
>

Good. Now that I've established that questioning the validity of claims 
concerning the "holocaust" does not imply denial, I feel safe to ask you to 
prove your claim that 12 million jews died. This is an opportunity for you 
to plug your site again and provide some substance in your posts rather than 
shamelessly and prolifically promoting your propaganda site. 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 21 18:45:41 EST 2008
Article: 1575010 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Traitorous Clique Stepping Out of the Shadows
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:28:10 -0500
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 wrote in message 
news:qqlrr3l55e0d9ishbagmfdaddviramc2uc@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:18:49 -0500, "Melody Welmier"
>  wrote:
>
>>
>> wrote in message
>>news:pZotj.1280$IG1.1257@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>>> br549@pobox.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:45:56 -0500, "Tani Jantsang©"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Doug"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:Buxsj.7151$R84.4067@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>>> "Ray"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:5v55r3t9ejl0mrb4rise4sg0st9mne783t@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> Stepping Out Of the Shadows
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, finally, this traitorous clique of elitists has stepped out of
>>>>>>> the shadows into the light. No longer need they fear public
>>>>>>> disapproval.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the Council on Foreign Relations document requiring 
>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>> Bush and the U.S. Congress to dissolve the United States as an
>>>>>>> independent nation and allow Mexican illegal aliens free access to
>>>>>>> America's land and resources.
>>>>>>> http://www.texemarrs.com/images/building_north_american_community.gif
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So effective has been their psychological brainwashing campaign and
>>>>>>> their dumbing down of the citizenry, the arrogant plotters believe
>>>>>>> they can finally come out and defiantly show themselves. Evidently,
>>>>>>> they think that no one is able to stop or even delay their bold plot
>>>>>>> to murder--yes, murder--America.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The CFR has even published its despicable plan in a book, entitled
>>>>>>> Building A North American Community. Authored by three elite members
>>>>>>> of the New York-based organization, the book calls for the ending of
>>>>>>> American sovereignty and the overthrow of the American Constitution
>>>>>>> and government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The CFR's membership of 4,275 conspirators, backed by the
>>>>>>> organization's predominantly Zionist Jew leadership, demands that, 
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> the year 2010, America as we once knew it will no longer exist. By
>>>>>>> that date, they intend that the following be achieved:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to see proof of the "Zionist Jew leadership". I think it's
>>>>>> far more likely it's run by Islamonazis.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You are just one more American dunce that is part of the problem. 
>>>>> This
>>>>> shit has been ONGOING for decades.  I saw it, I even knew JEWS that 
>>>>> told
>>>>> me about this shit.
>>>>>
>>>>> But here you are, the ever doubting thomas.  Sigh.
>>>>>
>>>>> You'll see it Doug - and IN YOUR LIFETIME.   Guaranteed.  My intel or
>>>>> predictions have an uncanny way of happening, as you can SO WELL SEE
>>>>> RIGHT NOW with the election choices you WILL have.   I told you all. 
>>>>> I
>>>>> told you. So?  Is there gonna be a fucking revolution?   I doubt it.
>>>>
>>>> More alcohol-induced ranting by the barstool commando.
>>
>>There is no ranting there, but I can see that you do nothing but rant and
>>rage against everyone on here, for often very reasonable posts.
>>
>>What he said to Doug is simply the truth.  What you have to say is the 
>>same
>>worthless ranting garbage.
>
> You are evidently so damned ignorant of the thread and its
> participants that you don't even realise that Tani is a woman. Why
> should your opinion be worthy of any note?
>
> Please crawl back under your rock and stay there until you finally
> hatch a brain.
>

Despite your quick and insulting dismissal, the poster was clearly able to 
determine the difference between a rant obviously lacking substance and an 
insightful and meaningful post. Derogatory dismissals such as "take your 
meds" and accusations of "mass delusion" are simply becoming less effective 
to a public gaining awareness.

I predict the plan will fail and there will be a final and global 
elimination of this cultural, racial and religious cancer. So while the plan 
provides for a selective and passive extermination, which has so far been 
incredibly effective and is a testament to human creativity, ingenuity and 
survival, a discovery of critical mass is approaching which will result in 
another bloody holocaust. I think we would like to avoid that outcome, but 
alas, the leviathan is stubborn and will never cease even when it is obvious 
it creates its own destruction.





From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:19 EST 2008
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Poor Meldon - Still Can't Back up his Mouth.
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:11 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rs2k9jvltpcfb@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rrsdhqt36lp6a@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rrio6nlbfa920@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rrduu9ccr7bf9@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>news:13rrbj1djbqld57@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> In article <13rqc43iucgmua0@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:13rq7am1dn491f0@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>> In article <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>Total nut-job thinks 20 million jews killed in the holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Really? Then you will have no problem documenting that assertion,
>>>>>>> will you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hmmm.. how to document the assertion that you're a nut-job. I'll have 
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>think about that one.
>>>
>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>>>> in the Holocaust.
>>>
>>>>So you deny the holocaust?
>>>
>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>> in the Holocaust. Prove I've said that.
>>>
>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>
>>Good. Now that I've established that questioning the validity of claims
>>concerning the "holocaust" does not imply denial, I feel safe to ask you 
>>to
>>prove your claim that 12 million jews died. This is an opportunity for you
>>to plug your site again and provide some substance in your posts rather 
>>than
>>shamelessly and prolifically promoting your propaganda site.
>
> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
> in the Holocaust, then asserted that I have claimed 12 million Jews
> died. Prove I've said that.
>
> I'll just sit here and wait.
>

Lack of substance both noted and predicted. You've promoted your site enough 
that I am confident others will visit, confirm the 12 million figure, 
observe your response lacking substance and judge for themselves.

I had to begin with a lie (20 million) to address your claim (12 million) in 
order to protect myself against professional liars and well funded 
organizations designed to silence critics. Now, I doubt the figure of 6 
million has any validity. You've clearly demonstrated how these myths are 
achieved.

You and yours fail to understand that people read these posts and begin to 
see how threats are used to silence the truth and propagate myths. Get it? 
Your actions are not covert! They're here for everyone to see and learn. 
Dumb asses such as yourself with crappy disorganized websites who are paid 
to silence discussion simply provide more evidence for those who suspect the 
awful truth. Disappointing really that the "master race" is so full of 
mediocrity and lacking insight.

Finally as for your insulting subject change, I am already convinced of the 
awful truth. I have no reason or desire to "prove" anything to anyone. Your 
typical, predictable and empty responses are all that's required to show the 
awful truth.

Bottom line, you had an opportunity to "prove" your claim of 12 million and 
failed miserably. Respond more often so that your supporters will think 
twice before writing the next cheque. Do you see you're dilemma now? The 
more you engage in these tactics, the more evidence you provide to your 
critics but without engagement you risk your funding. The plan will fail and 
blood will flow as it has many times before. This is something I would like 
to avoid so in fact, I'm on your side in trying to prevent another 
holocaust. The trouble is, you're too stupid to understand the implications 
of your actions and that in fact they are counterproductive to your cause. 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:19 EST 2008
Article: 1575075 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:07:39 -0500
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"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:893sr3591nfk01kmf2qp04f64u9q203cug@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:42:14 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>
>>> A great essay until you got to this last paragraph. Delusions about the
>>> world-wide
>>> Jewish cabal/conspiracy being committed by 15 millions Jews destroyed
>>> whatever
>>> point you were trying to make.
>>>
>>
>>I have heard many respectable and well educated individuals among them a
>>Rabbi and ex-president of a prominent jewish organization interviewed by
>>Bill Moyers, state quite clearly that the jewish lobby in the United 
>>States
>>is *the* most powerful lobby and that no one running for presidential 
>>office
>>who does not meet their approval will be elected.
>>
>
> Of course the farmers lobby and the NRA say the same thing about their
> lobbies.

Wow! Talk about delusion. I'm willing to consider your point but without any 
reference whatsoever, its difficult. I countered your position with a 
thoughtful, sincere post with references and in return you offer nothing 
more than a quip. Seriously, this kind of purposeful dismissal of any and 
all critique does nothing but diminish any sympathy or respect for your 
cause that may exist. 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:19 EST 2008
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics
Subject: Re: Traitorous Clique Stepping Out of the Shadows
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:53:19 -0500
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"Anarchore"  wrote in message 
news:13rsbq087t5h09b@corp.supernews.com...
> Meldon wrote:
>
>>
>>  wrote in message
>> news:qqlrr3l55e0d9ishbagmfdaddviramc2uc@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:18:49 -0500, "Melody Welmier"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> >> wrote in message
>> > > news:pZotj.1280$IG1.1257@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>> > > > br549@pobox.com wrote:
>> > > > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:45:56 -0500, "Tani Jantsang©"
>> >>>> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> >>>>>"Doug"  wrote in message
>> > > > > > news:Buxsj.7151$R84.4067@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>> >>>>>>"Ray"  wrote in message
>> > > > > > > news:5v55r3t9ejl0mrb4rise4sg0st9mne783t@4ax.com...
>> > > > > > > > Stepping Out Of the Shadows
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Now, finally, this traitorous clique of elitists has
>> > > > > > > > stepped out of the shadows into the light. No longer
>> > > > > > > > need they fear public disapproval.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > This is the Council on Foreign Relations document
>> > > > > > > > requiring  President Bush and the U.S. Congress to
>> > > > > > > > dissolve the United States as an independent nation and
>> > > > > > > > allow Mexican illegal aliens free access to America's
>> > > > > > > > land and resources.
>> > > > > > > > http://www.texemarrs.com/images/building_north_american_
>> > > > > > > > community.gif
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > So effective has been their psychological brainwashing
>> > > > > > > > campaign and their dumbing down of the citizenry, the
>> > > > > > > > arrogant plotters believe they can finally come out and
>> > > > > > > > defiantly show themselves. Evidently, they think that
>> > > > > > > > no one is able to stop or even delay their bold plot to
>> > > > > > > > murder--yes, murder--America.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > The CFR has even published its despicable plan in a
>> > > > > > > > book, entitled Building A North American Community.
>> > > > > > > > Authored by three elite members of the New York-based
>> > > > > > > > organization, the book calls for the ending of American
>> > > > > > > > sovereignty and the overthrow of the American
>> > > > > > > > Constitution and government.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > The CFR's membership of 4,275 conspirators, backed by
>> > > > > > > > the organization's predominantly Zionist Jew
>> > > > > > > > leadership, demands that,  by the year 2010, America as
>> > > > > > > > we once knew it will no longer exist. By that date,
>> > > > > > > > they intend that the following be achieved:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I'd like to see proof of the "Zionist Jew leadership". I
>> > > > > > > think it's far more likely it's run by Islamonazis.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > You are just one more American dunce that is part of the
>> > > > > > problem.  This shit has been ONGOING for decades.  I saw
>> > > > > > it, I even knew JEWS that  told me about this shit.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > But here you are, the ever doubting thomas.  Sigh.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > You'll see it Doug - and IN YOUR LIFETIME.   Guaranteed.
>> > > > > > My intel or predictions have an uncanny way of happening,
>> > > > > > as you can SO WELL SEE RIGHT NOW with the election choices
>> > > > > > you WILL have.   I told you all.  I told you. So?  Is there
>> > > > > > gonna be a fucking revolution?   I doubt it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > More alcohol-induced ranting by the barstool commando.
>> > >
>> > > There is no ranting there, but I can see that you do nothing but
>> > > rant and rage against everyone on here, for often very reasonable
>> > > posts.
>> > >
>> > > What he said to Doug is simply the truth.  What you have to say
>> > > is the same worthless ranting garbage.
>> >
>> > You are evidently so damned ignorant of the thread and its
>> > participants that you don't even realise that Tani is a woman. Why
>> > should your opinion be worthy of any note?
>> >
>> > Please crawl back under your rock and stay there until you finally
>> > hatch a brain.
>> >
>>
>> Despite your quick and insulting dismissal, the poster was clearly
>> able to determine the difference between a rant obviously lacking
>> substance and an insightful and meaningful post. Derogatory
>> dismissals such as "take your meds" and accusations of "mass
>> delusion" are simply becoming less effective to a public gaining
>> awareness.
>>
>> I predict the plan will fail and there will be a final and global
>> elimination of this cultural, racial and religious cancer. So while
>> the plan provides for a selective and passive extermination, which
>> has so far been incredibly effective and is a testament to human
>> creativity, ingenuity and survival, a discovery of critical mass is
>> approaching which will result in another bloody holocaust. I think we
>> would like to avoid that outcome, but alas, the leviathan is stubborn
>> and will never cease even when it is obvious it creates its own
>> destruction.
>
> Send them all to Israhell(after their nuke facilities are taken out
> with a pre-emptive strike) and let the cancer eat itself.
>

I can certainly understand the sentiment but there is a matter of 
practicality which needs to be taken seriously. "Send them" won't work and 
taking out their nukes first seems a bit backward. What is required is a 
REAL strategy and many are undertaking civilized action to raise awareness 
in a realistic fashion.

I particularly like Patrick Grimm's site http://zionistwatch.wordpress.com 
and the work he is doing.





From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:20 EST 2008
Article: 1575163 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4258 alt.politics.bush:4234146 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039351 can.politics:1575163 soc.men:1593888
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-post-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Nizkor Propaganda Website run by a lunatic
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:19:04 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <13rsmt7kga62i30@corp.supernews.com>
References: <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com> <13rrsdhqt36lp6a@corp.supernews.com> <13rs2k9jvltpcfb@corp.supernews.com> <13rs7u2sn5t82d4@corp.supernews.com> <13rslj0oiumg71b@corp.supernews.com>
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rslj0oiumg71b@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rs7u2sn5t82d4@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rs2k9jvltpcfb@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rrsdhqt36lp6a@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>news:13rrio6nlbfa920@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> In article <13rrduu9ccr7bf9@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:13rrbj1djbqld57@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>> In article <13rqc43iucgmua0@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:13rq7am1dn491f0@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> In article <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Total nut-job thinks 20 million jews killed in the holocaust.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Really? Then you will have no problem documenting that assertion,
>>>>>>>>> will you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hmmm.. how to document the assertion that you're a nut-job. I'll 
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>think about that one.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>>>>>> in the Holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>>So you deny the holocaust?
>>>>>
>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>>>> in the Holocaust. Prove I've said that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>>>
>>>>Good. Now that I've established that questioning the validity of claims
>>>>concerning the "holocaust" does not imply denial, I feel safe to ask you
>>>>to
>>>>prove your claim that 12 million jews died. This is an opportunity for 
>>>>you
>>>>to plug your site again and provide some substance in your posts rather
>>>>than
>>>>shamelessly and prolifically promoting your propaganda site.
>>>
>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>> in the Holocaust, then asserted that I have claimed 12 million Jews
>>> died. Prove I've said that.
>>>
>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>>
>>
>>Lack of substance both noted and predicted. You've promoted your site 
>>enough
>>that I am confident others will visit, confirm the 12 million figure,
>>observe your response lacking substance and judge for themselves.
>>
>>I had to begin with a lie (20 million) to address your claim (12 million) 
>>in
>>order to protect myself against professional liars and well funded
>
> Thank you for your admission that you are a liar, and your revelation that 
> you do not
> comprehend what you read. Although anyone following your blather already 
> understood that,
> it was important that you were able to accept yourself as the liar you 
> clearly are.
>
> You must be a Leading Revisionist Scholar.
>
> Now, as to your evasion: Please document your claim that *I* have claimed
> that 12 million Jews died during the Holocaust.
>
> Go ahead, moron, make my day.
>
> Here's my site - show me where I claim 12 million Jews died:
>

Here you go freak - "Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who suffered 
and died" - Title Banner at Nizkor Propaganda Website run by a lunatic.




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:20 EST 2008
Article: 1575164 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4259 alt.politics.bush:4234147 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039352 can.politics:1575164 soc.men:1593889
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-post-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: 100,000,000 Killed
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:20:30 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <13rsmt89s5qqu31@corp.supernews.com>
References: <13rp66ngfua7mf7@corp.supernews.com> <47BEEE46.252C597@netvigator.com>
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"bob young"  wrote in message 
news:47BEEE46.252C597@netvigator.com...
>
>
> Meldon wrote:
>
>> More than one hundred million is the approximate combined number of 
>> fallen
>> soldiers from both world wars. The vast majority were caucasian males.
>> Neither war directly threatened North America.
>
> Gross exaggeration.  Apart from that your point is?
>
>

Are you another White Holocaust denier? 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:20 EST 2008
Article: 1575165 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4260 alt.politics.bush:4234148 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039353 can.politics:1575165 soc.men:1593890
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-post-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: 100,000,000 Killed
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:24:39 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <13rsmt8pu9hdi33@corp.supernews.com>
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rslmej8vg6f72@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <47BEEE46.252C597@netvigator.com>,
> bob young   wrote:
>>
>>
>>Meldon wrote:
>>
>>> More than one hundred million is the approximate combined number of 
>>> fallen
>>> soldiers from both world wars. The vast majority were caucasian males.
>>> Neither war directly threatened North America.
>>
>>Gross exaggeration.  Apart from that your point is?
>
> He hates them Wascally Juice, and he isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.
>

I hate no one, not even you. I'm trying to prevent destruction to the people 
you so vociferously advocate, defend and protect. Now, as for you; what's 
your motivation? 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:20 EST 2008
Article: 1575173 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4262 alt.politics.bush:4234150 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039356 can.politics:1575173
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics
Subject: Re: 100,000,000 Killed
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:30:07 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <13rsnahf76gbq0d@corp.supernews.com>
References: <13rp66ngfua7mf7@corp.supernews.com> <13rp7fs9l6oneb1@corp.supernews.com> <13rp970mb9num8a@corp.supernews.com> <13rpm80paoqtec2@corp.supernews.com> <13rppdt3j5q6c8e@corp.supernews.com> <13rse1gb9o869a2@corp.supernews.com>
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"Anarchore"  wrote in message 
news:13rse1gb9o869a2@corp.supernews.com...
> Meldon wrote:
>
>>
>> "Anarchore"  wrote in message
>> news:13rpm80paoqtec2@corp.supernews.com...
>> > Meldon wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> >>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>> > > news:13rp7fs9l6oneb1@corp.supernews.com...
>> >>> In article <13rp66ngfua7mf7@corp.supernews.com>,
>> >>>Meldon  wrote:
>> >>> > More than one hundred million is the approximate combined number
>> >>> > of fallen soldiers from both world wars. The vast majority were
>> >>> > caucasian males.  Neither war directly threatened North America.
>> > > >
>> >>> Perhaps Caucasian males should learn from this experience and stop
>> >>> starting wars, eh?
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series
>> > > of wars that are not in America's interest - 2003
>> > >
>> > > http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html
>> >
>> > Those filthy KIKES are the ones that Mcveigh gets paid to suck up
>> > to,
>>
>> Apparently, so do you.
>
> Huh?  Oh, was it the slur?  It is explained in the same way that Chris
> Rock explained: there are Black People, and there are Niggers!
>

I understand and empathize with the sentiment but IMO it is 
counter-productive. Its like saying, "I hate, hate" or "intolerance will not 
be tolerated". 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 01:47:21 EST 2008
Article: 1575175 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4263 alt.politics.bush:4234152 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039358 can.politics:1575175
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics
Subject: Re: 100,000,000 Killed
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:31:11 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <13rsnaiuase40e@corp.supernews.com>
References: <13rp66ngfua7mf7@corp.supernews.com> <13rpm80paoqtec2@corp.supernews.com> <13rppdt3j5q6c8e@corp.supernews.com> <13rse1gb9o869a2@corp.supernews.com> <13rslkt3l8n0g4a@corp.supernews.com>
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rslkt3l8n0g4a@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rse1gb9o869a2@corp.supernews.com>, Anarchore  wrote:
>>Meldon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Anarchore"  wrote in message
>>> news:13rpm80paoqtec2@corp.supernews.com...
>>> > Meldon wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> >>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>> > > news:13rp7fs9l6oneb1@corp.supernews.com...
>>> >>> In article <13rp66ngfua7mf7@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> >>>Meldon  wrote:
>>> >>> > More than one hundred million is the approximate combined number
>>> >>> > of fallen soldiers from both world wars. The vast majority were
>>> >>> > caucasian males.  Neither war directly threatened North America.
>>> > > >
>>> >>> Perhaps Caucasian males should learn from this experience and stop
>>> >>> starting wars, eh?
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > > A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series
>>> > > of wars that are not in America's interest - 2003
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html
>>> >
>>> > Those filthy KIKES are the ones that Mcveigh gets paid to suck up
>>> > to,
>>>
>>> Apparently, so do you.
>>
>>Huh?  Oh, was it the slur?  It is explained in the same way that Chris
>>Rock explained: there are Black People, and there are Niggers!
>
> And brain-dead morons like you.
>
> Ain't life grand?
>

Says the kettle to the tea-pot. 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:02:38 EST 2008
Article: 1575190 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4270 alt.politics.bush:4234203 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039373 can.politics:1575190 soc.men:1593907
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Dimwitted Denier Meldon Runs Away - Liar to the End.
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:25:14 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
news:13rspp3t801kje3@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rsmt7kga62i30@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rslj0oiumg71b@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rs7u2sn5t82d4@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>news:13rs2k9jvltpcfb@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> In article <13rrsdhqt36lp6a@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:13rrio6nlbfa920@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>> In article <13rrduu9ccr7bf9@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:13rrbj1djbqld57@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> In article <13rqc43iucgmua0@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:13rq7am1dn491f0@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>Total nut-job thinks 20 million jews killed in the holocaust.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Then you will have no problem documenting that
>>>>>>>>>>> assertion,
>>>>>>>>>>> will you?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hmmm.. how to document the assertion that you're a nut-job. I'll
>>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>think about that one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were
>>>>>>>>> killed
>>>>>>>>> in the Holocaust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So you deny the holocaust?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>>>>>> in the Holocaust. Prove I've said that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Good. Now that I've established that questioning the validity of
>>>>>>claims
>>>>>>concerning the "holocaust" does not imply denial, I feel safe to ask
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>prove your claim that 12 million jews died. This is an opportunity for
>>>>>>you
>>>>>>to plug your site again and provide some substance in your posts
>>>>>>rather
>>>>>>than
>>>>>>shamelessly and prolifically promoting your propaganda site.
>>>>>
>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>>>> in the Holocaust, then asserted that I have claimed 12 million Jews
>>>>> died. Prove I've said that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Lack of substance both noted and predicted. You've promoted your site
>>>>enough
>>>>that I am confident others will visit, confirm the 12 million figure,
>>>>observe your response lacking substance and judge for themselves.
>>>>
>>>>I had to begin with a lie (20 million) to address your claim (12
>>>>million)
>>>>in
>>>>order to protect myself against professional liars and well funded
>>>
>>> Thank you for your admission that you are a liar, and your revelation
>>> that
>>> you do not
>>> comprehend what you read. Although anyone following your blather already
>>> understood that,
>>> it was important that you were able to accept yourself as the liar you
>>> clearly are.
>>>
>>> You must be a Leading Revisionist Scholar.
>>>
>>> Now, as to your evasion: Please document your claim that *I* have
>>> claimed
>>> that 12 million Jews died during the Holocaust.
>>>
>>> Go ahead, moron, make my day.
>>>
>>> Here's my site - show me where I claim 12 million Jews died:
>
>>Here you go freak - "Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who
>>suffered
>>and died" - Title Banner at Nizkor Propaganda Website run by a lunatic.
>
> Evasion noted, Leading Revisionist Scholar Meldon. where is the place
> where I have
> claimed that 12 million JEWS died?
>
> Cat got your tongue, Bubba?
>
> (Holocaust deniers are exceptionally stupid.)
>


Somehow I imagined you would eventually end up with a great example of the 
"holocaust denier" tactic. I'm so glad this is on Usenet for everyone to 
read.






From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:02:39 EST 2008
Article: 1575191 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4271 alt.politics.bush:4234204 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039374 alt.usenet.kooks:1070213 can.politics:1575191 soc.men:1593908
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.usenet.kooks,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: 100,000,000 Gentiles and one moron, Meltdown?
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:27:36 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rsq1rit84ns8a@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rsmt8pu9hdi33@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rslmej8vg6f72@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <47BEEE46.252C597@netvigator.com>,
>>> bob young   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Meldon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> More than one hundred million is the approximate combined number of
>>>>> fallen
>>>>> soldiers from both world wars. The vast majority were caucasian males.
>>>>> Neither war directly threatened North America.
>>>>
>>>>Gross exaggeration.  Apart from that your point is?
>>>
>>> He hates them Wascally Juice, and he isn't the brightest bulb on the 
>>> tree.
>>>
>>
>>I hate no one, not even you. I'm trying to prevent destruction to the 
>>people
>>you so vociferously advocate, defend and protect. Now, as for you; what's
>>your motivation?
>
> Ignorance disturbs me, Meltdown, particularly bigoted ignorance like 
> yours.
>
> You must be a Leading Revisionist Scholar - you are certainly dumb enough.
> -- 

Yup I guess I'm just a dumb bigot. Nice to know you care. 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:02:39 EST 2008
Article: 1575192 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4272 alt.politics.bush:4234205 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039375 can.politics:1575192 soc.men:1593909
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: 100,000,000 Killed
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:29:48 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rspunkmjpav4d@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rsmt89s5qqu31@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"bob young"  wrote in message
>>news:47BEEE46.252C597@netvigator.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Meldon wrote:
>>>
>>>> More than one hundred million is the approximate combined number of
>>>> fallen
>>>> soldiers from both world wars. The vast majority were caucasian males.
>>>> Neither war directly threatened North America.
>>>
>>> Gross exaggeration.  Apart from that your point is?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Are you another White Holocaust denier?
>
> Evasion noted. What WAS your point, Leading Revisionist Moron Meltdown?
>
> -- 

I really tried to be reasonable with you. Have a good day ok? 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:02:39 EST 2008
Article: 1575205 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4273 alt.politics.bush:4234224 alt.rush-limbaugh:1406635 can.politics:1575205 soc.culture.jewish:1825077 soc.men:1593914
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: McVay Brings Orwell to Life
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:13:26 -0500
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This well renowned "gentleman" in a recent newsgroup dialogue made numerous 
hurtful, unfounded and inflammatory accusations toward me. He was awarded 
the OBC in 1995 for his "battle against... hate on the internet".

It is in my opinion that this individual is a direct threat to myself and a 
danger to anyone who dares question or criticize anything he deems 
unsuitable for discussion.

I wish him no harm nor do I hold any ill will toward him. However, this 
feeling is clearly not mutual and rings of the ominous warnings raised in 
Orwell's book, "1984".

I bid you peace Mr. McVay and hope that you will not have to suffer the same 
level of destruction that I have had to endure.

".....Backed by a volunteer team of 65 sympathetic computer activists around 
the world, Mr. McVay continues his battle against those who spread hate 
through the Internet. He has built a database of 2,500 electronic files --  
more than 2 million words -- on fascism and the Holocaust which is regularly 
accessed for scholarly research...."

http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:02:39 EST 2008
Article: 1575207 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4275 alt.politics.bush:4234226 alt.rush-limbaugh:1406637 can.politics:1575207 soc.culture.jewish:1825079 soc.men:1593916
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:17:33 -0500
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Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship - FEAR!

"...Working to bring hate out in the open and expose it, Kenneth McVay 
provides a more effective antidote than censorship."

http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:02:39 EST 2008
Article: 1575214 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4276 alt.politics.bush:4234228 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039389 can.politics:1575214 soc.men:1593919
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: The Acronym of WAR
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:10:25 -0500
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White Anglo Resistance 




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:05:49 EST 2008
Article: 1825077 of soc.culture.jewish
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4273 alt.politics.bush:4234224 alt.rush-limbaugh:1406635 can.politics:1575205 soc.culture.jewish:1825077 soc.men:1593914
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: McVay Brings Orwell to Life
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:13:26 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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This well renowned "gentleman" in a recent newsgroup dialogue made numerous 
hurtful, unfounded and inflammatory accusations toward me. He was awarded 
the OBC in 1995 for his "battle against... hate on the internet".

It is in my opinion that this individual is a direct threat to myself and a 
danger to anyone who dares question or criticize anything he deems 
unsuitable for discussion.

I wish him no harm nor do I hold any ill will toward him. However, this 
feeling is clearly not mutual and rings of the ominous warnings raised in 
Orwell's book, "1984".

I bid you peace Mr. McVay and hope that you will not have to suffer the same 
level of destruction that I have had to endure.

".....Backed by a volunteer team of 65 sympathetic computer activists around 
the world, Mr. McVay continues his battle against those who spread hate 
through the Internet. He has built a database of 2,500 electronic files --  
more than 2 million words -- on fascism and the Holocaust which is regularly 
accessed for scholarly research...."

http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm




From meldon@meldon.com Fri Feb 22 11:05:49 EST 2008
Article: 1825079 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:17:33 -0500
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Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship - FEAR!

"...Working to bring hate out in the open and expose it, Kenneth McVay 
provides a more effective antidote than censorship."

http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:29 EST 2008
Article: 1575329 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Acronym of WAR
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:25:24 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Middle Class Warrior"  wrote in message 
news:zcAvj.8451$0%3.506@trnddc06...
> Meldon wrote:
>> White Anglo Resistance
> Without any remorse!
>

I'm not sure I understand your point. (Perhaps that's the point?)

> -- 
> McCain on the Iraq War
> *   McCain said winning the war would be “easy.” “I know that as 
> successful as I believe we will be, and I believe that the success will be 
> fairly easy, we will still lose some American young men or women.” [CNN, 
> 9/24/02]
> *   At the 2004 Republican National Convention, McCain, focusing on the 
> war in Iraq, said that while weapons of mass destruction were not found, 
> Saddam once had them and “he would have acquired them again.”
> *  "Make it a hundred" years in Iraq and "that would be fine with me." 
> [Derry, New Hampshire Town Hall meeting, 1/3/08]
> *  "Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war."
> * McCain on how long troops may remain in Iraq: “A thousand years. A 
> million years. Ten million years.  It depends on the arrangement we have 
> with the Iraqi government.” [Associated Press, 1/04/08]
> McCain on Bush tax cuts
> *  "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the 
> benefits go to the most fortunate among us, at the expense of middle class 
> Americans who most need tax relief (2001)."
> *  "But when you look at the percentage of the tax cuts that—as the 
> previous tax cuts—that go to the wealthiest Americans, you will find that 
> the bulk of it, again, goes to wealthiest Americans. … A lot of Americans 
> now are paying a very large a—low and middle-income Americans are paying a 
> significantly larger amount of their income in taxes. I’d like to see them 
> get the bulk of the relief (2003)."
> *   Promised to make the same Bush tax cuts he once opposed permanent 
> (2008).
> McCain on Healthcare
> * John McCain supported President Bush's veto of health care for 10 
> million children.
> McCain on evolution
> * "I believe in evolution."
> McCain on Iran
> * "My greatest fear is the Iranians acquire a nuclear weapon and give it 
> to a terrorist organization. And there is a real threat of them doing 
> that."
> McCain on Chairman Mao
> * "Remember the words of Chairman Mao: 'It's always darkest before it's 
> totally black."
> McCain of Family Values
> * "My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and 
> immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by 
> pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine."
> MCCain on the Keating 5 scandal
> * "The appearance of it was wrong. It's a wrong appearance when a group of 
> senators appear in a meeting with a group of regulators, because it 
> conveys the impression of undue and improper influence. And it was the 
> wrong thing to do."
> McCain on torture
> * "Waterboarding is a form of torture no matter how it is done and should 
> be a prohibited among U.S. military interrogation practices . . ."
> McCain on economics
> * "I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do 
> about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated."
> McCain on the Clintons
> * "Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her 
> father."
> McCain on immigration reform
> *  "F**k you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room."
> Rush Limbaugh on John McCain
> *  If I really wanted to torpedo McCain, I would endorse him, because that 
> would send the independents and liberals that are going to vote for him 
> running away faster than anything. . . .
> Ann Coulter on John McCain
> *  McCain steamrolled the Republican Senate into adopting yet more federal 
> restrictions on gun ownership in the juvenile justice bill.
> *  She'd campaign for Clinton, stating "I think she's stronger on the war 
> on terrorism." Coulter expressed her opinion that Clinton is much more 
> conservative than McCain . . .
> *"She's smarter than John McCain."
> McCain on Aging
> * "I'm older than dirt, I've got more scars than Frankenstein, but I've 
> learned a few things along the way."
> McCain on the Estate tax
> * "I am concerned that repeal of the estate tax would provide massive 
> benefits solely to the wealthiest and highest-income taxpayers in the 
> country. A Treasury Department study found that almost no estate tax has 
> been paid by lower- and middle-income taxpayers. But taxes have been paid 
> on the estates of people who were in the highest 20% of the income 
> distribution at the time of their death. It found that
> 91% of all estate taxes are paid by the estates of people whose annual 
> income exceeded $190,000 around the time of their death."
> Cindy McCain on political payback
> * "Cindy recently admitted that she keeps a “grudge list". 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:30 EST 2008
Article: 1575330 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4284 alt.politics.bush:4234624 alt.rush-limbaugh:1406884 can.politics:1575330 soc.culture.jewish:1825192 soc.men:1593977
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: McVay Brings Orwell to Life
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:34:00 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Omega..Men....."  wrote 
in message news:1iEvj.39803$w57.10428@edtnps90...
> McVay is an idiot, ignore the stupid fuck! He not that bright you know!
> This Red Smurf lives in Nanaimo, and believe he doing the world a favor 
> with
> his retardation.... in fact, he hasn't got a clue what's coming, when the
> New World Order nazi's put forth the final solution.
>
> .......................................

He certainly appears to fail when it comes to following what he preaches. 
Its rather disturbing, (in more ways than one), to realize he as an example 
of the people who are self-proclaimed thought police. It also brings to mind 
those who have political access and legislative influence; most seem to be 
quite mentally unstable or at least on the fringes of the bell curve of, for 
lack of better description, normal, tolerant society.

>
>
> "Meldon"  wrote in message
> news:13rt82hlbggr2cf@corp.supernews.com...
>> This well renowned "gentleman" in a recent newsgroup dialogue made
> numerous
>> hurtful, unfounded and inflammatory accusations toward me. He was awarded
>> the OBC in 1995 for his "battle against... hate on the internet".
>>
>> It is in my opinion that this individual is a direct threat to myself and
> a
>> danger to anyone who dares question or criticize anything he deems
>> unsuitable for discussion.
>>
>> I wish him no harm nor do I hold any ill will toward him. However, this
>> feeling is clearly not mutual and rings of the ominous warnings raised in
>> Orwell's book, "1984".
>>
>> I bid you peace Mr. McVay and hope that you will not have to suffer the
> same
>> level of destruction that I have had to endure.
>>
>> ".....Backed by a volunteer team of 65 sympathetic computer activists
> around
>> the world, Mr. McVay continues his battle against those who spread hate
>> through the Internet. He has built a database of 2,500 electronic 
>> files -- 
>> more than 2 million words -- on fascism and the Holocaust which is
> regularly
>> accessed for scholarly research...."
>>
>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 080221-0, 02/21/2008
>> Tested on: 2/22/2008 10:09:22 AM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:30 EST 2008
Article: 1575331 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4285 alt.politics.bush:4234625 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039505 can.politics:1575331 soc.men:1593979 misc.survivalism:1011465
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:45:51 -0500
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 wrote in message 
news:fpn1ct$etg$1@reader2.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Anarchore  wrote:
>
>> It is up to US to expose the Jew predators, not the Jews.
>
> And you are doing a horrible job of it.  Most everyone you try to convince
> just ends up concluding that you are a nutcase.
>

As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, it 
stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns in a 
respectful manner. I have also "lashed out" in frustration and anger until I 
reviewed "hate laws". (Those are the laws that pretend to prohibit hate 
toward everyone while in fact allowing hate against caucasians.)

> Why are you so unsuccessful?
>
>
> -- 
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
> certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
> -- Bertrand Russel
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:30 EST 2008
Article: 1575332 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Dimwitted Denier Meldon Runs Away - Liar to the End.
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:17:43 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rts8fgm4oe7be@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rsu6n9u7e4aa5@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rspp3t801kje3@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rsmt7kga62i30@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>news:13rslj0oiumg71b@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> In article <13rs7u2sn5t82d4@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>news:13rs2k9jvltpcfb@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>> In article <13rrsdhqt36lp6a@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:13rrio6nlbfa920@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>> In article <13rrduu9ccr7bf9@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:13rrbj1djbqld57@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <13rqc43iucgmua0@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:13rq7am1dn491f0@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <13rq4iffg85h458@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meldon  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Total nut-job thinks 20 million jews killed in the holocaust.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Then you will have no problem documenting that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertion,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Hmmm.. how to document the assertion that you're a nut-job. I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>think about that one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were
>>>>>>>>>>> killed
>>>>>>>>>>> in the Holocaust.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>So you deny the holocaust?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were 
>>>>>>>>> killed
>>>>>>>>> in the Holocaust. Prove I've said that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Good. Now that I've established that questioning the validity of
>>>>>>>>claims
>>>>>>>>concerning the "holocaust" does not imply denial, I feel safe to ask
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>prove your claim that 12 million jews died. This is an opportunity 
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>to plug your site again and provide some substance in your posts
>>>>>>>>rather
>>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>>shamelessly and prolifically promoting your propaganda site.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evasion noted. You asserted that I think 20 million Jews were killed
>>>>>>> in the Holocaust, then asserted that I have claimed 12 million Jews
>>>>>>> died. Prove I've said that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll just sit here and wait.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lack of substance both noted and predicted. You've promoted your site
>>>>>>enough
>>>>>>that I am confident others will visit, confirm the 12 million figure,
>>>>>>observe your response lacking substance and judge for themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I had to begin with a lie (20 million) to address your claim (12
>>>>>>million)
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>order to protect myself against professional liars and well funded
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your admission that you are a liar, and your revelation
>>>>> that
>>>>> you do not
>>>>> comprehend what you read. Although anyone following your blather 
>>>>> already
>>>>> understood that,
>>>>> it was important that you were able to accept yourself as the liar you
>>>>> clearly are.
>>>>>
>>>>> You must be a Leading Revisionist Scholar.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, as to your evasion: Please document your claim that *I* have
>>>>> claimed
>>>>> that 12 million Jews died during the Holocaust.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go ahead, moron, make my day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my site - show me where I claim 12 million Jews died:
>>>
>>>>Here you go freak - "Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who
>>>>suffered
>>>>and died" - Title Banner at Nizkor Propaganda Website run by a lunatic.
>>>
>>> Evasion noted, Leading Revisionist Scholar Meldon. where is the place
>>> where I have
>>> claimed that 12 million JEWS died?
>>>
>>> Cat got your tongue, Bubba?
>>>
>>> (Holocaust deniers are exceptionally stupid.)
>
>>Somehow I imagined you would eventually end up with a great example of the
>>"holocaust denier" tactic. I'm so glad this is on Usenet for everyone to
>>read.
>
> So am I, Meltdown. Having shown you to twice be a liar, and a poor one at 
> that,
> I am pleased.
>

"Twice be a liar" is a complete fabrication. The statement claims I lied 
twice which is false and I explained why it was necessary to lie in the 
first place. By comparison you lie constantly and evade any question of your 
motives. Here, once again you demonstrate the need to provoke a response 
with the sole purpose of provoking another response and an end result of 
justifying your own necessity.

I am thankful you have exposed yourself for what you are but I have no 
desire to test or risk my freedom by engaging in dialogue with someone so 
demonstrably disturbed.

I will again wish you a pleasant day and hope that you will not have to 
endure the hardship I have experienced over the last 30 and especially the 
last 10 years. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:30 EST 2008
Article: 1575378 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4288 alt.politics.bush:4234758 alt.rush-limbaugh:1406969 can.politics:1575378 soc.culture.jewish:1825217 soc.men:1593999
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:29:13 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Omega..Men....."  wrote 
in message news:ypFvj.39844$w57.36521@edtnps90...
> McVay and his government kooks don't frighten myself!
> When the New World Order kooks, put things in place with there death cult
> throughout the world and there doing just that! They will make the german
> holocaust from Nazi Germany will just look like a fun day at the park, 
> when
> the NWO get to do what they want for their goat god. I wonder why McVay 
> and
> those's who pretend to look for hate crimes and Nazi's, still have not
> firgured out what the goals of the NWO is all about....the reason is,
> because they support the NWO goals.
>
> .......................................

If I could get past the atrociously poor grammar in your statement I might 
be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately (though likely by design) a 
demonstration of this nature does not assist the resistance.

>
>
> "Meldon"  wrote in message
> news:13rt82iceaa9td1@corp.supernews.com...
>> Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship - FEAR!
>>
>> "...Working to bring hate out in the open and expose it, Kenneth McVay
>> provides a more effective antidote than censorship."
>>
>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 080221-0, 02/21/2008
>> Tested on: 2/22/2008 10:08:02 AM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:31 EST 2008
Article: 1575379 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4289 alt.politics.bush:4234759 alt.rush-limbaugh:1406970 can.politics:1575379 soc.culture.jewish:1825218 soc.men:1594000
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: McVay Brings Orwell to Life
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:30:40 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Omega..Men....."  wrote 
in message news:voEvj.39809$w57.6280@edtnps90...
>
> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
> news:13rtsbc37p3alec@corp.supernews.com...
>> In article <13rt82hlbggr2cf@corp.supernews.com>,
>> Meldon  wrote:
>> >This well renowned "gentleman" in a recent newsgroup dialogue made
> numerous
>> >hurtful, unfounded and inflammatory accusations toward me. He was 
>> >awarded
>> >the OBC in 1995 for his "battle against... hate on the internet".
>>
>> You mean "unfounded and inflmmatory accusations" that you are a liar,
> along
>> with examples to prove it?
>
> McVay fuck off you goofy shit!
> While your playing retard on the internet, the New World Order nazi's in 
> the
> Global Elite, are bring out more camps and will make the holocaust will 
> look
> like just a wonderland park, you stupid fuck!
>
> Why are you not going after the death cult freaks murdering and committing
> genocide in the world, example, like the Nazi Bush family, or the 
> Clinton's
> who murdered thousands in Canada with the blood scandal contamination. The
> reason you don't is, because you are a phony shit, who supports the death
> cult in Government, who have become the real terrorists in the world, you
> kook!
>
>

Wow! We are truly in trouble. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:31 EST 2008
Article: 1575513 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:04:07 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13ruqkfspit0s16@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13ru7m5cq3lmj9c@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, it
>>stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns in a
>>respectful manner. I have also "lashed out" in frustration and anger until 
>>I
>>reviewed "hate laws". (Those are the laws that pretend to prohibit hate
>>toward everyone while in fact allowing hate against caucasians.)
>
> Please show how Canada's anti-hate legislation allows hate against 
> Caucasians. Cite the
> appropriate Federal and Supreme Court of Canada rulings.
>



Simple. By virtue of DISTINGUISHING between races, cultures and religions, 
the law allows hate to transpire against Caucasians. Evidence of this 
selective method of protection is found in statements such as "...groups 
that are in a minority situation and that have historically suffered...". 
There is no perceived historical suffering or minority situation of white 
anglos and therefore a different and selective protection is readily 
apparent for that group. Short form - whites, caucasians, anglos and so on, 
ARE TREATED DIFFERENT. In any other form this would be considered 
discriminatory but the law is drafted in this fashion and is clearly not by 
accident.

"...Considering the abject nature of the messages and their likely impact on 
individuals and groups that are in a minority situation and that have 
historically suffered from precisely the kind of bias underpinning these 
vile attacks, it could be assumed that the harm suffered will have a 
long-term impact and may be extremely difficult to repair...." - T-1309-05, 
2005 FC 1493
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/chrt/doc/2007/2007chrt49/2007chrt49.html


Further, every other group can be racist but not white / anglo /caucasian 
and this is demonstrated when evidence such as a white person who wishes not 
to associate with non-whites for example, "I just don't feel the need to 
be-friend non-whites, as they can do nothing for me, nor would I like to 
associate with them. I am fine with my own kind, and always will/have been." 
Clearly, expressing this sentiment in public can be considered illegal since 
the statement is used as evidence against the respondent.

"...I just don't feel the need to be-friend non-whites, as they can do 
nothing for me, nor would I like to associate with them. I am fine with my 
own kind, and always will/have been..." - T1106/8705, 2007 CHRT 49
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=hate+white&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/ca/chrt/doc/2007/2007chrt49/2007chrt49.html


In a case where a respondent expressed theories of conspiratorial nature, 
the subject itself was also used as evidence against them. Once again it is 
clear, expressing this sentiment in public can be considered illegal since 
the statement is used as evidence against the respondent.

"...the messages expounded the "theory" that Jewish people operate a secret 
conspiracy designed to extort money and amass tremendous power and control 
on a global level.." - T1071/5205 - 2006 CHRT 50
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/chrt/doc/2006/2006chrt50/2006chrt50.html

There are many more examples of cases of this nature successfully argued. 
However, even after extensive research, I could not locate a single case of 
a white European, or caucasian obtaining remedy or even having a complaint 
filed. In other words, there appears to be little if any caucasian 
complainants and even less successfully argued cases of caucasian 
complainants. This is easily explained when there no "white advocacy" groups 
available to take the cases. By comparison, every other group is offered 
protection by virtue of advocates and non-profits involved with "anti-hate" 
activities. I can just imagine the hilarity that occurs when some poor 
bastard applies for government funding for a non-profit advocacy of white 
anglo protectionism. After the laughter stops, the application is swiftly 
rejected.

I'm sure I'm not going to convince you. It is part of your job to defend 
your position. You have a vested financial interest in policing the 
internet. As for people like me, we are just trying to make sense of the 
insane bullshit and if we're lucky, survive. When you get down to the heart 
of it, the motivation behind fascism in the form liberal ideals is profit 
and nothing more. By comparison, people like me, marginal to begin with, are 
suffering the immense burden of liberal-left policies in order to placate 
every other group that can be imagined. Personally, I'm hoping for a poverty 
study that indicates dramatic increases in white, anglo or caucasian poverty 
levels. Of course, that can't happen in a political climate that defines 
such an action as racist.

The only reason I am forced to speak in terms of race, ethnicity, culture or 
religion to begin with is the fallacy of equality (equity) laws which seek 
equal outcomes as determined by race, ethnicity, culture or religion. It is 
clear, the laws have been crafted using distinction of race, ethnicity, 
culture and religion by design. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did not promote 
this kind of human rights as referenced in the famous, world renowned and 
highly regarded speech in which he states:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation 
where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content 
of their character." - MLK's dream

It should be clear to anyone at this point the dream has been reversed and 
legislated as follows, ""I have a dream that my four little
children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the 
content of their character but by the color of their skin ." - MLK's 
nightmare









From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:32 EST 2008
Article: 1575514 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4294 alt.politics.bush:4234996 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52935 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039597 can.politics:1575514 soc.men:1594076
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-post-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:08:13 -0500
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Which of the following do you think we are living in?



MLK's dream:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation 
where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content 
of their character."


MLK's nightmare:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation 
where they will be judged not by the content of their character but by the 
color of their skin ." 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:32 EST 2008
Article: 1575541 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4295 alt.politics.bush:4235024 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52936 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039611 can.politics:1575541 soc.men:1594090
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: The Grand Phishing Scam No One Will Tell You About
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:54:27 -0500
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It is irrefutably clear to me and others, having experienced first hand the 
awesome burden placed on the shoulders of average "majority" stake-holders 
in this "democracy" that the internet in particular is flooded with paid 
advocates who will sell you down the river in order to pad their pockets.

For any white, anglo individual or group, great care and consideration must 
be taken with any expression; no, every word, intent, inference and 
implication one makes. The laws are so broad and encompassing, that anything 
you say can be considered beyond the bounds of legal engagement. Even 
mentioning "jewish conspiracy" will be considered as evidence against you. I 
am in fact risking legal action by typing those two words!

If you think the ADL is the active agent, you're dead wrong. While I have no 
doubt they are quite active, others have "taken up the cause". That is to 
say, if they play the game, they will do well. Those who appear resistant 
are considered enemies of the state and will be laid low by the law, 
advocates, policies and legislation that few realize apart from the pocket 
padders, until they are unfortunate enough to experience it.

Be very wary of dialogue of any kind with someone before you investigate 
their possible motives and research at least their posting history. The 
evasive and provocative discussions they offer are an early indication that 
they intend to ensnare you. Its not for enjoyment or even a good cause. It 
is for profit!

Our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers did not fight for "equality 
under the law with exceptions". Nor did they fight for a society which 
legislates its own destruction. What is taking place is abhorrent to 
everything they fought for and an affront to anything considered a "free 
society".

An often quoted allegory demonstrating the limits of free speech is, "You 
can't yell fire in a crowded theatre." The assumption is, the theatre is NOT 
on fire. The reality today is, it is illegal to yell fire in a crowded 
theatre, even when its burning since truth is not defense for what is 
considered "hate".

A brief search of cases will quickly indicate these truths. What is amazing 
is, the statutes are written to be ALL inclusive. In the case law, you see 
the repeated specter of exceptions made by race, skin colour, religion or 
ethnicity and in some cases gender. Everyone is included except those who 
have not experienced "historical oppression". That simply means, members of 
society who are unfortunate enough to be considered white anglo are NOT 
included since they have not experienced historical oppression. Those with 
financial resources will fair better but for those without, you're the first 
to be eliminated. (Yup, just like Nazi Germany).

Its legal trickery. It is not by accident, natural occurrence or unintended 
consequence; it is by design and you are in immediate danger. I only wish I 
was fear-mongering. Those who have already experienced it will know it is an 
absolute and indisputable reality. 1984 is here and it is real. Achtung!





From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:32 EST 2008
Article: 1575563 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:32:58 -0500
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"Fuzzy"  wrote in message 
news:m05vr313chbo8v5ur0akc29faes3rnbqp0@4ax.com...
> Affirmative action operates under the premise that white males are
> already represented in the courts and politics. This is simply not
> true. Match them by race and color and  lose the hypocrisy (incentives
> for more teachers, nurses, etc... where ever they're under
> represented, including the supreme court of canada).
>
>
> Btw, auto insurance is a joke. Men are involved in fewer accidents and
> pay a higher premiums. If my wife or kid doesn't drive, there's no way
> I should be paying more.
>
> It's bad to defame every person of a race but ok to defame an entire
> gender (especially if he's white). CRTC regulation doesn't come close
> to enforcing it's own criteria where men are concerned.
> (and let's not forget "women as positive role models" has turned into
> outright hatred towards men)
>
> Violence against women funding obviously excludes the men even though
> violence against men make the former statistically insignificant.
>
> Children and men are a loaves of bread giving disproportionate
> representation in the market place (a fact not missed by many).
>
> The zeal of the abortion activists typically alienate children (who
> happen to be male) from the human race.
>
> Could probably name off a few hundred more if you want. I'm not
> liberal and I hate canada (tossed away like a used tampon and I want
> to stay tossed away. There'll never be a future for me here).

You're describing one brick in the wall and I have no doubt you have 
experienced it first hand otherwise you would not be posting here. My 
question to you is, if not here then where? Even if financially you could do 
so, where the hell are you going to go?

Its pretty tragic but you're not alone. There is a great deal of discussion 
taking place, even in the media of such topics but they are heavily shrouded 
in political "code". It's partly why it is so difficult to figure out. For 
instance, what do you do if yelling "fire" is illegal even when your house 
is burning?? How can any discussion take place without risking legal 
liability? So what we see is political pundits using every other word still 
legal to describe what is taking place and for most of us, its very 
difficult to decode. Orwell comes to mind when he spoke of "new speak" 
versus "old speak" and so on.

Whatever is going on, it is global in nature with very few exceptions. The 
exceptions if any, are hardly worth considering since those countries are 
the global outcasts. Some possibilities may be Cuba although not for long, 
Venezuela and perhaps Iran. I know, crazy, but you can bet any nation that 
refuses to cooperate immediately gets a "bad boy" reputation so I would bet 
the ones portrayed in the worst way are very likely the only places left to 
which escape can offer remedy. Everywhere else is already FUBAR. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:32 EST 2008
Article: 1575623 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4320 alt.politics.bush:4235115 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52942 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039643 can.politics:1575623 soc.men:1594119
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:41:49 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22297466b7756ed498a344@news.individual.net...
> David Johnston  wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:08:13 -0500, "Meldon" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Which of the following do you think we are living in?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >MLK's dream:
>> >
>> >"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>> >nation
>> >where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the 
>> >content
>> >of their character."
>> >
>> >
>> >MLK's nightmare:
>> >
>> >"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>> >nation
>> >where they will be judged not by the content of their character but by 
>> >the
>> >color of their skin ."
>> >
>>
>> Neither.
>>
> I suppose that some of it is simply cultural.   Blacks in Canada have had
> better ways since "The Empire" outlawed slavery and as a result, one of
> Toronto's first psychians was a negro, and the "underground railroad" 
> filled
> Detroit with blacks heading up to Canada who didn't make it out and 
> decided
> to stay.   Toronto's black doctor spent a lot of time and money to get 
> those
> people up here, as it seems.
>
> And, if you haven't noticed, American blacks decended from 200 years ago 
> in
> Canada aren't much like their black cousins decended from the same.   It's
> what happens when things go right and a society next door is different.
>
> Sure, we have the violent, gun toting Jamacians, but they're not the same.

That's a lovely piece of pointless, irrelevant, incoherent, rambling 
bullshit. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:33 EST 2008
Article: 1575624 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:16:12 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22297766c19057e998a346@news.individual.net...
> Fuzzy  wrote:
>> It's not too bad actually... All that love and care that was meant for
>> many is now exclusively your own. If you think about it and can tap
>> into it it's wonderful thing. The loss shows itself daily in the
>> newspaper and on the tele.
>>
> It would be kind of fun to read about Vice President Cheney committing
> suicide as Huxley did.  Huxley overdosed on a new pharmaceutical discovery 
> of
> the time, LSD.  :)

"Fun... to read... Cheney committing suicide". Do you actually know what you 
just said? Please tell me you two are paid to be irrelevant and or stupid. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:33 EST 2008
Article: 1575625 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4322 alt.politics.bush:4235117 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52943 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039645 can.politics:1575625 soc.men:1594121
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Grand Phishing Scam No One Will Tell You About
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:36:12 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:qr8vr3t63e9f4fmbct4j7vnst9nttbm9m9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:54:27 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>It is irrefutably clear to me and others, having experienced first hand 
>>the
>>awesome burden placed on the shoulders of average "majority" stake-holders
>>in this "democracy" that the internet in particular is flooded with paid
>>advocates who will sell you down the river in order to pad their pockets.
>
> Where do you find these people to pay you?

What I do, I do for free despite the risk. Unlike you, my motivation is to 
prevent needless suffering at the hands of amoral vultures like you. How was 
the restaurant tonight? Drop dead you fucking leach! 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:33 EST 2008
Article: 1575626 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4323 alt.politics.bush:4235118 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52944 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039646 can.politics:1575626 soc.men:1594122
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:38:59 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:069vr3taq1kecfgq36hf2brau3jec904cv@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:08:13 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>Which of the following do you think we are living in?
>>
>>
>>
>>MLK's dream:
>>
>>"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
>>where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the 
>>content
>>of their character."
>>
>>
>>MLK's nightmare:
>>
>>"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
>>where they will be judged not by the content of their character but by the
>>color of their skin ."
>>
>
> Neither.

You rejected both and supplied no alternative. Typical paid leach. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:33 EST 2008
Article: 1575627 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4324 alt.politics.bush:4235119 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52945 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039647 can.politics:1575627 soc.men:1594123
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:49:27 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rv9mc419okbd5@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rv38e9vgp7811@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>>Which of the following do you think we are living in?
>
>>MLK's dream:
>>
>>"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
>>where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the 
>>content
>>of their character."
>
> Given the current success of Barack Obama, the answer is obvious, except,
> perhaps, to a man with a documented record of deliberate lies.
>

Uh.. I'll ignore the prolific number of baseless accusations which seems to 
be your meal ticket and please do describe, the "obvious answer" that 
Obama's success demonstrates, Mr. Ambiguity-Leach? Damn, you're so 
disgusting I just vomited all over my keyboard. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:33 EST 2008
Article: 1575628 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:55:08 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13rv9hgl716fd6a@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rv38dij6btu10@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13ruqkfspit0s16@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13ru7m5cq3lmj9c@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, it
>>>>stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns in 
>>>>a
>>>>respectful manner. I have also "lashed out" in frustration and anger 
>>>>until
>>>>I
>>>>reviewed "hate laws". (Those are the laws that pretend to prohibit hate
>>>>toward everyone while in fact allowing hate against caucasians.)
>>>
>>> Please show how Canada's anti-hate legislation allows hate against
>>> Caucasians. Cite the
>>> appropriate Federal and Supreme Court of Canada rulings.
>
>>Simple. By virtue of DISTINGUISHING between races, cultures and religions,
>>the law allows hate to transpire against Caucasians. Evidence of this
>
> Evasion noted, Mr. Fens. Please cite the appropriate Federal and Supreme
> Court of Canada judgments which support your allegation.
>
> While your opinion may be interesting, your record of deliberately lying
> in this forum precludes taking anything you say seriously.
>
> Cite the judgments, Mr. Fens.
>

You are an idiot. Perhaps if you learned to read we'd all be better off. I 
guess all those citations and quotes were lies - you fucking moron. I hear 
they have some good weed on the island. Perhaps that would explain your 
propensity to ignore anything which does not serve your selfish purpose. 
PARASITE! Here ya go - VOMIT. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:33 EST 2008
Article: 1575629 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:02:48 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22296867a96f6ad898a33d@news.individual.net...
> Fuzzy  wrote:
>> Affirmative action operates under the premise that white males are
>> already represented in the courts and politics. This is simply not
>> true. Match them by race and color and  lose the hypocrisy (incentives
>> for more teachers, nurses, etc... where ever they're under
>> represented, including the supreme court of canada).
>>
> It is tough and being white.
>

Indeed it is.

>
> I suppose that is why white losers like you can't cut it, when white 
> winners
> like me succeed.   It's always easy to lay blame when you suck and can't
> compete.

That's the equivalent of denying the Holocaust because some wealthy jews 
escaped Germany. In fact, if you are as successful and white as you claim, 
it is attributed only to the fact that white idiots will do far better than 
intelligent whites. Scoff if you will since its easy to ridicule any 
possibility of modern eugenics.

>
> The Hong Kongers I know make the Wall Street and Bay St. Capitalists look
> like whining baybes man.   They come here with fuck all and are killer.

I have no idea what that means or how it is relevant. Your readily apparent 
sub-standard IQ suggests my point is valid. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:34 EST 2008
Article: 1575630 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:04:43 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Fuzzy"  wrote in message 
news:5u8vr3lae0ubbae26rvm9rh1nkkuphhqt0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:17:32 -0500, steve fischer
>  wrote:
>
>>Fuzzy  wrote:
>>> Affirmative action operates under the premise that white males are
>>> already represented in the courts and politics. This is simply not
>>> true. Match them by race and color and  lose the hypocrisy (incentives
>>> for more teachers, nurses, etc... where ever they're under
>>> represented, including the supreme court of canada).
>>>
>>It is tough and being white.
>>
>>
>>I suppose that is why white losers like you can't cut it, when white 
>>winners
>>like me succeed.   It's always easy to lay blame when you suck and can't
>>compete.
>>
>>The Hong Kongers I know make the Wall Street and Bay St. Capitalists look
>>like whining baybes man.   They come here with fuck all and are killer.
>>
> A decrease in taxation by 65% would be the place to start.  There's
> nothing like paying for the policy and bullets that'll kill your
> children, eh bud?
>
> It's lose and lose. Give up on family life and centuries of culture or
> have it torn apart by the powers that be.

Silly fuck better enjoy whatever success he can. Someday he'll look back at 
the warnings he ignored and cry, "why didn't I listen?". 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:34 EST 2008
Article: 1575631 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:12:11 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Fuzzy"  wrote in message 
news:579vr3h1e54qfpbau0c19nn6a38hs7f6bc@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:32:58 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fuzzy"  wrote in message
>>news:m05vr313chbo8v5ur0akc29faes3rnbqp0@4ax.com...
>>
>>You're describing one brick in the wall and I have no doubt you have
>>experienced it first hand otherwise you would not be posting here. My
>>question to you is, if not here then where? Even if financially you could 
>>do
>>so, where the hell are you going to go?
>>
> It's not too bad actually... All that love and care that was meant for
> many is now exclusively your own. If you think about it and can tap
> into it it's wonderful thing. The loss shows itself daily in the
> newspaper and on the tele.
>>
>>Its pretty tragic but you're not alone. There is a great deal of 
>>discussion
>>taking place, even in the media of such topics but they are heavily 
>>shrouded
>>in political "code". It's partly why it is so difficult to figure out. For
>>instance, what do you do if yelling "fire" is illegal even when your house
>>is burning?? How can any discussion take place without risking legal
>>liability? So what we see is political pundits using every other word 
>>still
>>legal to describe what is taking place and for most of us, its very
>>difficult to decode. Orwell comes to mind when he spoke of "new speak"
>>versus "old speak" and so on.
>>
> Legitimacy in the new world comes with a price and sometimes imitation
> is the greatest form of flattery.
>
> Commercials are a great education and there's no excuse why each gap
> cannot be filled.
>
> Trust (monetary law) and what may come and bite you in the ass are
> entirely two different things.
>
> A bit cryptic, I guess. Eh?
>>
>>Whatever is going on, it is global in nature with very few exceptions. The
>>exceptions if any, are hardly worth considering since those countries are
>>the global outcasts. Some possibilities may be Cuba although not for long,
>>Venezuela and perhaps Iran. I know, crazy, but you can bet any nation that
>>refuses to cooperate immediately gets a "bad boy" reputation so I would 
>>bet
>>the ones portrayed in the worst way are very likely the only places left 
>>to
>>which escape can offer remedy. Everywhere else is already FUBAR.
>>
> Many things...
>
> What was held by a few now belongs to many. Affluence and social
> networking at the global scale *was* the pride of very few
> (governments, media, business, etc...) and now is as common as indoor
> plumbing.
>
> Globalization is an eventually, intentionally or not, natural behavior
> will do it on it's own. The choices are be a part of it and bring to
> it what you represent (remember legitimacy) or inadvertently serve it
> (possibly against your own better interests).
>
> Canadian fems have been making leaps and bounds (general population).
> If that's the trouble then get out and talk, the language is now
> there.
>
> ...

I didn't understand anything you said. Must be me or the bot you're using.

Birds and fish are often observed with yellowish thunder shoveling snow from 
rooftops of civilian clothing. Yeesh! 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:34 EST 2008
Article: 1575701 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4356 alt.politics.bush:4235199 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52952 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039687 can.politics:1575701 soc.men:1594163
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Grand Phishing Scam No One Will Tell You About
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 03:35:54 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <13rvqa4gr4bm64@corp.supernews.com>
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"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:olhvr35ab00gbk22ejm6s8eq7d33sn8upv@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:36:12 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"David Johnston"  wrote in message
>>news:qr8vr3t63e9f4fmbct4j7vnst9nttbm9m9@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:54:27 -0500, "Meldon" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>It is irrefutably clear to me and others, having experienced first hand
>>>>the
>>>>awesome burden placed on the shoulders of average "majority" 
>>>>stake-holders
>>>>in this "democracy" that the internet in particular is flooded with paid
>>>>advocates who will sell you down the river in order to pad their 
>>>>pockets.
>>>
>>> Where do you find these people to pay you?
>>
>>What I do, I do for free despite the risk.
>
> Nonsense.  You have already claimed that being a prolific poster means
> that you have been paid to post.  So how I can in on your deal?

Oh lord, here we go.... I don't believe I claimed that. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:34 EST 2008
Article: 1575702 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:12:40 -0500
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"David Johnston"  wrote in message 
news:vihvr3t3vuv6a34st8bl6tf3gcrmtgv2d6@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:38:59 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"David Johnston"  wrote in message
>>news:069vr3taq1kecfgq36hf2brau3jec904cv@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:08:13 -0500, "Meldon" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Which of the following do you think we are living in?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>MLK's dream:
>>>>
>>>>"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>>>>nation
>>>>where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the
>>>>content
>>>>of their character."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>MLK's nightmare:
>>>>
>>>>"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>>>>nation
>>>>where they will be judged not by the content of their character but by 
>>>>the
>>>>color of their skin ."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Neither.
>>
>>You rejected both and supplied no alternative.
>
> They do not live in a nation where their character counts for nothing
> because of their skin colour.  They do not live in a nation where
> their skin colour counts for nothing because of their character.
> Thus...neither.

Let me see if I can correctly parse your triple-negative.... "They live in a 
nation where their character counts for something. They live in a nation 
where the colour of their skin counts for something; thus, both."

Now that we've taken care of your wordsmithery for which you might well be 
dismissed from any profession requiring clear written language, your 
intended logical flaw ignores King's comparison between the two elements; 
colour VERSUS character. Both elements existed in his day also, but he is 
making a clear distinction which you have intentionally obscured in a 
dramatic demonstration of legal craft.

Further, the motivation of your efforts and use of advanced communication 
skills directed to profit in the promotion of silence, is deplorable . For 
shame counselor. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:34 EST 2008
Article: 1575703 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:29:50 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.222995d79c05c97698a35b@news.individual.net...
> David Johnston  wrote:
>> They do not live in a nation where their character counts for nothing
>> because of their skin colour.  They do not live in a nation where
>> their skin colour counts for nothing because of their character.
>> Thus...neither.
>>
> I know someone who learned French so she could get a job with the Canadian
> feds in Senegal, the Canadian Embassy.
>
> She holds a couple of Masters Degrees, and learning French put her in
> Senegal.
>
> I suppose that a bunch of white retards who only know Don Cherry would 
> have
> said "why can't I get a job there?"

You've obscured King's model by introducing both gender and language. This 
was clearly intentional since your derogatory, defamatory but perfectly 
legal statement is meant to draw an illegal response. Its worth noting, if 
your statement replaced white with an alternative ethnicity, the statement 
would risk legal liability.

I guess you'll have to keep trolling (fisher indeed - lol) for other 
potential respondents (defendants). 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:34 EST 2008
Article: 1575704 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:40:14 -0500
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"Fuzzy"  wrote in message 
news:6efvr31nkguodl6dd21q01n49c47jjfjf8@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:12:11 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fuzzy"  wrote in message
>>news:579vr3h1e54qfpbau0c19nn6a38hs7f6bc@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:32:58 -0500, "Meldon" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Fuzzy"  wrote in message
>>>>news:m05vr313chbo8v5ur0akc29faes3rnbqp0@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>You're describing one brick in the wall and I have no doubt you have
>>>>experienced it first hand otherwise you would not be posting here. My
>>>>question to you is, if not here then where? Even if financially you 
>>>>could
>>>>do
>>>>so, where the hell are you going to go?
>>>>
>>> It's not too bad actually... All that love and care that was meant for
>>> many is now exclusively your own. If you think about it and can tap
>>> into it it's wonderful thing. The loss shows itself daily in the
>>> newspaper and on the tele.
>>>>
>>>>Its pretty tragic but you're not alone. There is a great deal of
>>>>discussion
>>>>taking place, even in the media of such topics but they are heavily
>>>>shrouded
>>>>in political "code". It's partly why it is so difficult to figure out. 
>>>>For
>>>>instance, what do you do if yelling "fire" is illegal even when your 
>>>>house
>>>>is burning?? How can any discussion take place without risking legal
>>>>liability? So what we see is political pundits using every other word
>>>>still
>>>>legal to describe what is taking place and for most of us, its very
>>>>difficult to decode. Orwell comes to mind when he spoke of "new speak"
>>>>versus "old speak" and so on.
>>>>
>>> Legitimacy in the new world comes with a price and sometimes imitation
>>> is the greatest form of flattery.
>>>
>>> Commercials are a great education and there's no excuse why each gap
>>> cannot be filled.
>>>
>>> Trust (monetary law) and what may come and bite you in the ass are
>>> entirely two different things.
>>>
>>> A bit cryptic, I guess. Eh?
>>>>
>>>>Whatever is going on, it is global in nature with very few exceptions. 
>>>>The
>>>>exceptions if any, are hardly worth considering since those countries 
>>>>are
>>>>the global outcasts. Some possibilities may be Cuba although not for 
>>>>long,
>>>>Venezuela and perhaps Iran. I know, crazy, but you can bet any nation 
>>>>that
>>>>refuses to cooperate immediately gets a "bad boy" reputation so I would
>>>>bet
>>>>the ones portrayed in the worst way are very likely the only places left
>>>>to
>>>>which escape can offer remedy. Everywhere else is already FUBAR.
>>>>
>>> Many things...
>>>
>>> What was held by a few now belongs to many. Affluence and social
>>> networking at the global scale *was* the pride of very few
>>> (governments, media, business, etc...) and now is as common as indoor
>>> plumbing.
>>>
>>> Globalization is an eventually, intentionally or not, natural behavior
>>> will do it on it's own. The choices are be a part of it and bring to
>>> it what you represent (remember legitimacy) or inadvertently serve it
>>> (possibly against your own better interests).
>>>
>>> Canadian fems have been making leaps and bounds (general population).
>>> If that's the trouble then get out and talk, the language is now
>>> there.
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>>I didn't understand anything you said. Must be me or the bot you're using.
>>
>>Birds and fish are often observed with yellowish thunder shoveling snow 
>>from
>>rooftops of civilian clothing. Yeesh!
>>
> No bots here but me...
>
> Where am I going? Probably no where. Just a progressive shift in my
> responsibilities and identity.
>

Indeed, orbital foils intended cheese crackers and running rocks with 
vindelu wood grain. Ferble drib blug doingle splert!

Have a nice blinkle. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:35 EST 2008
Article: 1575705 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Dear Mr. McVay - Profanity
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:41:26 -0500
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I Wonder, if you would be so kind as to address your thoughts and perhaps
provide some citations on the issue of profanity, its relationship to hate
and how legislation might provide benefits in addition to a "battle against
those who spread hate through the Internet".

Please forgive me in advance for my late response as this is my 36 hour,
government allocated, parenting weekend of which I have been granted two per
month and which afforded to date approximately $40,000 in associated legal
fees, $30,000 in child support and 30,000 Kms of travel.








From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:35 EST 2008
Article: 1575725 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: 12 Bar Blues by Meldon
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:21:40 -0500
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Everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

I said, everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

If blues are my friend,
why can't they bring me happy news?

I got the blues in morning
the blues in the night
the blues when I'm wrong
the blues when I'm right

Yeah, I got the blues, hey now honey
even when I go to bed.
Well if I don't find some sweet remedy,
I'll surely wish that I was dead.

I got the blues when I'm hot
the blues when I'm cold
the blues when I'm tellin'
the blues when I'm told

Yeh I got the blues, hey now baby,
even when I'm running late.
Well if the blues don't go away soon,
they won't let me participate.

I got the blues when I'm tired
the blues when I'm awake,
the blues for bad insomnia,
and the blues for goodness sake.

Yeh I got the blues, oh my sweet lord,
just like the wind that's in my sail.
If someone takes my song the wrong way,
they'll lock me up in hater's jail.

Everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

I said, everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

If blues are my friend,
why can't they bring me happy news?




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:35 EST 2008
Article: 1575726 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: The Day I Care About Meldon Fens
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:47:33 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message
news:MPG.2229bc9737a08c2898a36f@news.individual.net...
> will not be soon

C'mon, bait a hook and make your cast. There are plenty of phish around. If
at first you don't legislate; advocate, advocate, advocate.





From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:35 EST 2008
Article: 1575727 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Dear Mr. McVay - Parody
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:53:08 -0500
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I Wonder, if you would be so kind as to address your thoughts and perhaps
provide some citations on the issue of parody, its relationship to hate
and how legislation might provide benefits in addition to a "battle against
those who spread hate through the Internet".

Please forgive me in advance for my late response as this is my 36 hour,
government allocated, parenting weekend of which I have been granted two per
month and which afforded to date approximately $40,000 in associated legal
fees, $30,000 in child support and 30,000 Kms of travel.









From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:35 EST 2008
Article: 1575801 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: The Road to Hell is Paved....
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:26:45 -0500
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... for profit.






From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:36 EST 2008
Article: 1575845 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: 12 Bar Blues by Meldon
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:05:14 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.2229f2e8b23347798a37e@news.individual.net...
> Meldon  wrote:
>> Everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> I said, everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> If blues are my friend,
>> why can't they bring me happy news?
>>
>> I got the blues in morning
>> the blues in the night
>> the blues when I'm wrong
>> the blues when I'm right
>>
>> Yeah, I got the blues, hey now honey
>> even when I go to bed.
>> Well if I don't find some sweet remedy,
>> I'll surely wish that I was dead.
>>
>> I got the blues when I'm hot
>> the blues when I'm cold
>> the blues when I'm tellin'
>> the blues when I'm told
>>
>> Yeh I got the blues, hey now baby,
>> even when I'm running late.
>> Well if the blues don't go away soon,
>> they won't let me participate.
>>
>> I got the blues when I'm tired
>> the blues when I'm awake,
>> the blues for bad insomnia,
>> and the blues for goodness sake.
>>
>> Yeh I got the blues, oh my sweet lord,
>> just like the wind that's in my sail.
>> If someone takes my song the wrong way,
>> they'll lock me up in hater's jail.
>>
>> Everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> I said, everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> If blues are my friend,
>> why can't they bring me happy news?
>>
>>
> What a strange coincidence.  I was humming an acquaintances blues tune 
> just
> an hour ago and wanted to post the lyrics.
>
> It's Donnie Walsh's Caledonia (from Downchild Blues Band's second album 
> "But
> We're On The Guest List!") 1973
>
> Donnie's an old bud from days gone by.  He also wrote "Flip Flop and Fly" 
> and
> "I've got everything I need, almost!", made famous with Danny Aykroyd and
> John Belushi's Blues Brothers.
>

Well, well, well; its a small world. Caught Downchild in a small club just 
before we all lost their beloved piano player. I still swear to this day, 
that I saw her mouth the word "hospital" to one of the members during one of 
the tunes. (afflicted with leukemia and was likely heading for some test or 
treatment right after the show).

Those were pretty successful hits and when they did clubs, you got brass, 
keys, guitar, drums and bass. I'm sure they're still kicking up a storm. 
I'll take any guitar jobs they might be able to offer.




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:36 EST 2008
Article: 1575846 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Dear Mr. McVay - Profanity
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:23:03 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.222a05b01b0a631798a388@news.individual.net...
> Kenneth McVay OBC  wrote:
>>
>> Still can't produce those judgments, eh, Mr. Fens?
>>
>> Your incessant whining about your personal problems is best kept to 
>> yourself,
>> Mr. Fens.
>>
> Ken, he's a known idiot; and not worth your time.
>
> Think of it this way, if people responded to ludicrous and inane remarks
> every time some idiot like Meldon sat at the keyboard, we'd be saying
> "Hello" to Mark "Omega Men" Hansel and Terry "Right One" Pearson all day.
>
> We wouldn't have time for our lives!

Now Mr. Phisher, I'm again disappointed with your unnecessarily hurtful 
assertions. You could simply say you're too busy or choose not to deal with 
or choose to ignore Meldon. The insults are redundant and if they are true, 
since anyone would be able to determine if I'm, let's see... an idiot, 
ludicrous and inane. Now tell me, why the propensity to be nasty for no 
apparent reason? Isn't that hateful? 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:36 EST 2008
Article: 1575847 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Dear Mr. McVay - Profanity
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:15:15 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13s0efbcl2hh0dc@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rvqa6sm17b469@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>I Wonder, if you would be so kind as to address your thoughts and perhaps
>>provide some citations on the issue of profanity, its relationship to hate
>>and how legislation might provide benefits in addition to a "battle 
>>against
>>those who spread hate through the Internet".
>>
>>Please forgive me in advance for my late response as this is my 36 hour,
>>government allocated, parenting weekend of which I have been granted two 
>>per
>>month and which afforded to date approximately $40,000 in associated legal
>>fees, $30,000 in child support and 30,000 Kms of travel.
>
> Still can't produce those judgments, eh, Mr. Fens?
>
> Your incessant whining about your personal problems is best kept to 
> yourself,
> Mr. Fens.
>

Well, I'd have to go back a search and read and search and read then compile 
it only to have your say, I haven't produced them. That's kind of silly. 
Wouldn't you agree?

On the other hand we could explore the po$$ibilities of legislating for 
profit. What say you?

Besides, isn't dialogue healthier and more beneficial than, say... silence? 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:36 EST 2008
Article: 1575848 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4380 alt.politics.bush:4235396 alt.politics.nationalism.black:52964 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039747 can.politics:1575848 soc.men:1594224
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:43:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13s0e5fb15rha50@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rve9kc97p1a43@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rv9mc419okbd5@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rv38e9vgp7811@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>>>>Which of the following do you think we are living in?
>>>
>>>>MLK's dream:
>>>>
>>>>"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>>>>nation
>>>>where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the
>>>>content
>>>>of their character."
>>>
>>> Given the current success of Barack Obama, the answer is obvious, 
>>> except,
>>> perhaps, to a man with a documented record of deliberate lies.
>
>>Uh.. I'll ignore the prolific number of baseless accusations which seems 
>>to
>>be your meal ticket and please do describe, the "obvious answer" that
>>Obama's success demonstrates, Mr. Ambiguity-Leach? Damn, you're so
>>disgusting I just vomited all over my keyboard.
>
> It is hardly baseless to point call a liar a liar, Mr. Fens, and you are
> a documented liar.
>
> Get used to it.
>

Your just repeating the same thing over and over (search engine ranking). No 
matter the number of times you repeat the same thing even numbering to the 
billions, its still about one myth which I provided openly as such, not a 
billion myths. Lie implies an intent to mislead and I had no such motive. 
The intent was to demonstrate the propensity for "denier" to be used as the 
thread, now several subjects old will clearly demonstrate. On the other hand 
you are clearly willing to lie since your motive IS to mislead and worse, 
its for profit. (See: "Kenneth McVay OBC" - Whack Job)

I'm giving you an excuse to keep plugging your site, the least you could do 
is be civil. You could say, "Man, I've been waging war against Meldon all 
week" and submit a higher budget for approval. Think of all those shekels. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:36 EST 2008
Article: 1575849 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4381 alt.politics.bush:4235397 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039748 can.politics:1575849 soc.men:1594225 misc.survivalism:1011698
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:47:45 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13s0e7132l25568@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13rve9lf7ikr246@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon  wrote:
>>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13rv9hgl716fd6a@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13rv38dij6btu10@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>news:13ruqkfspit0s16@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> In article <13ru7m5cq3lmj9c@corp.supernews.com>,
>>>>> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, 
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns 
>>>>>>in
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>respectful manner. I have also "lashed out" in frustration and anger
>>>>>>until
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>reviewed "hate laws". (Those are the laws that pretend to prohibit 
>>>>>>hate
>>>>>>toward everyone while in fact allowing hate against caucasians.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Please show how Canada's anti-hate legislation allows hate against
>>>>> Caucasians. Cite the
>>>>> appropriate Federal and Supreme Court of Canada rulings.
>>>
>>>>Simple. By virtue of DISTINGUISHING between races, cultures and 
>>>>religions,
>>>>the law allows hate to transpire against Caucasians. Evidence of this
>>>
>>> Evasion noted, Mr. Fens. Please cite the appropriate Federal and Supreme
>>> Court of Canada judgments which support your allegation.
>>>
>>> While your opinion may be interesting, your record of deliberately lying
>>> in this forum precludes taking anything you say seriously.
>>>
>>> Cite the judgments, Mr. Fens.
>>>
>>
>>You are an idiot. Perhaps if you learned to read we'd all be better off. I
>>guess all those citations and quotes were lies - you fucking moron. I hear
>>they have some good weed on the island. Perhaps that would explain your
>>propensity to ignore anything which does not serve your selfish purpose.
>>PARASITE! Here ya go - VOMIT.
>
> Can't cite any Federal or Supreme Court judgments, eh, Mr. Fens?
> Gee, there's a surprise.
>

I did but what you mean to say is, they don't meet your definition. Perhaps 
if you carefully and without ambiguity describe what I need to provide you 
with we can reach a suitable conclusion? 




From meldon@meldon.com Sat Feb 23 17:07:36 EST 2008
Article: 1575850 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4382 alt.politics.bush:4235398 alt.religion.christian.baptist:1039749 can.politics:1575850 soc.men:1594226 misc.survivalism:1011699
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:52:48 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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 wrote in message 
news:fppev4$ae5$3@reader2.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Meldon  wrote:
>
>>  wrote in message
>> news:fpn1ct$etg$1@reader2.panix.com...
>> > In misc.survivalism Anarchore  wrote:
>> >
>> >> It is up to US to expose the Jew predators, not the Jews.
>> >
>> > And you are doing a horrible job of it.  Most everyone you try to 
>> > convince
>> > just ends up concluding that you are a nutcase.
>> >
>
>> As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, it
>> stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns in 
>> a
>> respectful manner.
>
> Yep.  You fail to convince pretty much anybody except yourself.  Why are
> you so unsuccessful?
>
> -- 

Poor thing. Is that all you've got? I'm not trying to convert the trough 
pigs, I'm allowing others to learn of the trough pigs' behavior. Don't you 
get it? I'm giving the trough pigs visibility and sunlight is the best 
disinfectant, politically speaking.

Your confusing "convincing", (which is what trough pigs do), with raising 
awareness, (which is what trough pigs *claim* to do). 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:33 EST 2008
Article: 1576187 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.culture:4388 alt.politics.bush:4236141 alt.rush-limbaugh:1407457 can.politics:1576187 soc.culture.jewish:1825651 soc.men:1594325
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: 12 Bar Blues by Meldon
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:23:32 -0500
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"Salad"  wrote in message 
news:13s0ukoigal1eba@corp.supernews.com...
> Meldon wrote:
>
>> "steve fischer"  wrote in message 
>> news:MPG.2229f2e8b23347798a37e@news.individual.net...
>>
>>>Meldon  wrote:
>>>
>>>>Everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>I said, everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>If blues are my friend,
>>>>why can't they bring me happy news?
>>>>
>>>>I got the blues in morning
>>>>the blues in the night
>>>>the blues when I'm wrong
>>>>the blues when I'm right
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, I got the blues, hey now honey
>>>>even when I go to bed.
>>>>Well if I don't find some sweet remedy,
>>>>I'll surely wish that I was dead.
>>>>
>>>>I got the blues when I'm hot
>>>>the blues when I'm cold
>>>>the blues when I'm tellin'
>>>>the blues when I'm told
>>>>
>>>>Yeh I got the blues, hey now baby,
>>>>even when I'm running late.
>>>>Well if the blues don't go away soon,
>>>>they won't let me participate.
>>>>
>>>>I got the blues when I'm tired
>>>>the blues when I'm awake,
>>>>the blues for bad insomnia,
>>>>and the blues for goodness sake.
>>>>
>>>>Yeh I got the blues, oh my sweet lord,
>>>>just like the wind that's in my sail.
>>>>If someone takes my song the wrong way,
>>>>they'll lock me up in hater's jail.
>>>>
>>>>Everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>I said, everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>If blues are my friend,
>>>>why can't they bring me happy news?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>What a strange coincidence.  I was humming an acquaintances blues tune 
>>>just
>>>an hour ago and wanted to post the lyrics.
>>>
>>>It's Donnie Walsh's Caledonia (from Downchild Blues Band's second album 
>>>"But
>>>We're On The Guest List!") 1973
>>>
>>>Donnie's an old bud from days gone by.  He also wrote "Flip Flop and Fly" 
>>>and
>>>"I've got everything I need, almost!", made famous with Danny Aykroyd and
>>>John Belushi's Blues Brothers.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, well, well; its a small world. Caught Downchild in a small club 
>> just before we all lost their beloved piano player. I still swear to this 
>> day, that I saw her mouth the word "hospital" to one of the members 
>> during one of the tunes. (afflicted with leukemia and was likely heading 
>> for some test or treatment right after the show).
>>
>> Those were pretty successful hits and when they did clubs, you got brass, 
>> keys, guitar, drums and bass. I'm sure they're still kicking up a storm. 
>> I'll take any guitar jobs they might be able to offer.
>>
> Maybe you can then find some white pussy and make white babies.

I suppose romance, procreation and raising a family would be quite desirable 
for most people, myself included. The first step however, is being able to 
participate as a viable and contributing member of society.

Personally, I try to make no discernment of race, ethnicity, nationality or 
religion as I consider each of these flawed distinctions as junk science, 
ie., fraud rather than genuine. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:33 EST 2008
Article: 1576189 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:33:09 -0500
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"Fuzzy"  wrote in message 
news:2rhvr31t3a5j8a46lophh0i94l7mpujjn0@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:04:43 -0500, "Meldon" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fuzzy"  wrote in message
>>news:5u8vr3lae0ubbae26rvm9rh1nkkuphhqt0@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:17:32 -0500, steve fischer
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>Fuzzy  wrote:
>>>>> Affirmative action operates under the premise that white males are
>>>>> already represented in the courts and politics. This is simply not
>>>>> true. Match them by race and color and  lose the hypocrisy (incentives
>>>>> for more teachers, nurses, etc... where ever they're under
>>>>> represented, including the supreme court of canada).
>>>>>
>>>>It is tough and being white.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I suppose that is why white losers like you can't cut it, when white
>>>>winners
>>>>like me succeed.   It's always easy to lay blame when you suck and can't
>>>>compete.
>>>>
>>>>The Hong Kongers I know make the Wall Street and Bay St. Capitalists 
>>>>look
>>>>like whining baybes man.   They come here with fuck all and are killer.
>>>>
>>> A decrease in taxation by 65% would be the place to start.  There's
>>> nothing like paying for the policy and bullets that'll kill your
>>> children, eh bud?
>>>
>>> It's lose and lose. Give up on family life and centuries of culture or
>>> have it torn apart by the powers that be.
>>
>>Silly fuck better enjoy whatever success he can. Someday he'll look back 
>>at
>>the warnings he ignored and cry, "why didn't I listen?".
>>
> Well, if you don't face it down now, your children will.

You are absolutely correct Fuzz. Not just my children and myself, but the 
uncounted millions, perhaps tens of millions and those who will follow, who 
are experiencing this profound and unnecessary hardship, which can be 
extremely difficult to define. I wish readers would remember I'm not here 
simply to complain about my ordeal but to raise awareness of the issues. 
Simply put, too much "snake oil" going around and people are kept ignorant 
of it. Just think what would happen if the livestock knew why they were 
penned? I just hope that I can reach as many as possible with my limited 
means and that they will indeed gain awareness of the reality in which we 
all live. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:34 EST 2008
Article: 1576190 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:45:01 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.222993d4ad139ef98a359@news.individual.net...
> Fuzzy  wrote:
>> Well, if you don't face it down now, your children will.
>>
> I've been sitting in Canada for 50 years watching no offense to nuclear
> power, whilst in the USA, everyone is still back in 1979 and the meltdown.
>
> France?  80% of their electricity is nuke, 70% of it comes from Manitoba
> Canada.
>
> Canada has built the last 3 petroleum refineries in North America since 
> 1991,
> while the US news media tells people that there hasn't been one built in 
> the
> last 20 years.
>
> Americans are being fed bull shit as news.

Right on Phish! We get fed our share of bullshit also as do every other 
nation but I have to agree with you that the US must be right up there with 
the worst of the worst in terms of relevant and accurate information or 
responsible reporting, whatever the hell that means. The place seems first 
to be coming unglued, I hope we're not next.

As for the nuclear / energy issue. That's one of the big, complex ones to be 
sure. I haven't dwelled on the energy issue too much but at first stroke and 
with a healthy amount of skepticism, I tend to lean toward nuclear as a 
viable option. Canada's nukes are allegedly the ones that can't meltdown 
since the fission stops if the water is removed. This is safer than other 
reactor processes since they continue to fuse and eventually melt when the 
water is removed. By comparison, Canada's is easier to stop. I'm troubled by 
the waste issue of course, but hell, if we keep on the course we've all been 
on for the past thirty or so years, we will be screwed before the energy 
issue threatens the economic engine. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:34 EST 2008
Article: 1576191 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:48:29 -0500
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"Fuzzy"  wrote in message 
news:i0jvr31e40anfbr984ieln4naffu1q7qfu@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:22:52 -0500, steve fischer
>  wrote:
>
>>Fuzzy  wrote:
>>> Well, if you don't face it down now, your children will.
>>>
>>I've been sitting in Canada for 50 years watching no offense to nuclear
>>power, whilst in the USA, everyone is still back in 1979 and the meltdown.
>>
>>France?  80% of their electricity is nuke, 70% of it comes from Manitoba
>>Canada.
>>
>>Canada has built the last 3 petroleum refineries in North America since 
>>1991,
>>while the US news media tells people that there hasn't been one built in 
>>the
>>last 20 years.
>>
>>Americans are being fed bull shit as news.
>>
> I honestly don't mind Americans.
>
> Love the premise in entrenching life and liberty into their
> children's' lives as well as setting the conditions despotism. Kinda
> grabs you by the nards and never really let's you go. Imo, associating
> property with life was a very good idea.

It seems to foundations were well intentioned and for the most part sound. 
Somewhere along the way things get warped and even property rights is now an 
issue under threat in the form of, if I recall correctly, public domain 
(they can take whatever you have, anytime they want.) 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:34 EST 2008
Article: 1576193 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:57:39 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22299e6969bfabc98a35d@news.individual.net...
> Fuzzy  wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:22:52 -0500, steve fischer
>>  wrote:
>>
>> >Fuzzy  wrote:
>> >> Well, if you don't face it down now, your children will.
>> >>
>> >I've been sitting in Canada for 50 years watching no offense to nuclear
>> >power, whilst in the USA, everyone is still back in 1979 and the 
>> >meltdown.
>> >
>> >France?  80% of their electricity is nuke, 70% of it comes from Manitoba
>> >Canada.
>> >
>> >Canada has built the last 3 petroleum refineries in North America since 
>> >1991,
>> >while the US news media tells people that there hasn't been one built in 
>> >the
>> >last 20 years.
>> >
>> >Americans are being fed bull shit as news.
>> >
>> I honestly don't mind Americans.
>>
>>
> My favourite Americans are the ones I know in Dallas, upstate New York, 
> Ohio
> and where I lived for 2 years back in the late 1980's, New York City.
>
>
> I've been drunk with a cheese head before too!
>
> And falling alseep on a Dash 8 lauching from Buttonville and landing at
> Chicago's Midway Airport is waking up to a new place.
>
> Back in September 2000, I was at a bar in Chicago getting rather drunk 
> with
> some American business associates and suddenly some guy said "That's
> CASTRO!" and Jimmy Carter was sitting in front of him.
>
> It was on CNN in the bar, and it behoved me to explain to them who Pierre
> Trudeau was, because it was his funeral in Montreal!
>
> I felt silly!
>
> Until I mentioned that Maggie was sitting beside Jimmy Carter and in front 
> of
> Castro, and Maggie (Trudeau) was the one who Ron Wood fucked when he was 
> with
> the Rolling Stones in Toronto back in '78!
>
> That's Canada!

You've got to be shitting me. Castro, Carter and Maggie in a bar and you 
were there while PET's funeral was on CNN?? It almost sounded for a moment 
that you were explaining to C, C, and M rather than your fellow patrons. 
Just how hammered were you all and were the individuals in question actually 
Jimmy, Fidel and Maggie? I mean, shut my mouf... you buddies with Downchild 
frontman and have experienced these three celebrities in such an informal 
setting.

If you haven't completely duped me, please continue with your experiences. 
Hell, you should consider writing a little book on such tales. It could 
prove quite interesting not to mention lucrative. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:34 EST 2008
Article: 1576195 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:02:53 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22299f13d491f5ca98a35e@news.individual.net...
> steve fischer  wrote:
>> Fuzzy  wrote:
>> > On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:22:52 -0500, steve fischer
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> > >Fuzzy  wrote:
>> > >> Well, if you don't face it down now, your children will.
>> > >>
>> > >I've been sitting in Canada for 50 years watching no offense to 
>> > >nuclear
>> > >power, whilst in the USA, everyone is still back in 1979 and the 
>> > >meltdown.
>> > >
>> > >France?  80% of their electricity is nuke, 70% of it comes from 
>> > >Manitoba
>> > >Canada.
>> > >
>> > >Canada has built the last 3 petroleum refineries in North America 
>> > >since 1991,
>> > >while the US news media tells people that there hasn't been one built 
>> > >in the
>> > >last 20 years.
>> > >
>> > >Americans are being fed bull shit as news.
>> > >
>> > I honestly don't mind Americans.
>> >
>> >
>> My favourite Americans are the ones I know in Dallas, upstate New York, 
>> Ohio
>> and where I lived for 2 years back in the late 1980's, New York City.
>>
>>
>> I've been drunk with a cheese head before too!
>>
>> And falling alseep on a Dash 8 lauching from Buttonville and landing at
>> Chicago's Midway Airport is waking up to a new place.
>>
>> Back in September 2000, I was at a bar in Chicago getting rather drunk 
>> with
>> some American business associates and suddenly some guy said "That's
>> CASTRO!" and Jimmy Carter was sitting in front of him.
>>
>> It was on CNN in the bar, and it behoved me to explain to them who Pierre
>> Trudeau was, because it was his funeral in Montreal!
>>
>> I felt silly!
>>
>> Until I mentioned that Maggie was sitting beside Jimmy Carter and in 
>> front of
>> Castro, and Maggie (Trudeau) was the one who Ron Wood fucked when he was 
>> with
>> the Rolling Stones in Toronto back in '78!
>>
>> That's Canada!
>>
> Oh, and one of the Americans said "Why don't the Canadians arrest Castro?
>
>
> I said "Cuba is your enemy, not ours"  "Don't ask me why".

I think more people share that same curiosity about Cuba embargo. I hand it 
to Castro. He's a stubborn old bastard. It looks like he may soon pass and 
IMO, he won simply for the fact that he survived his plight. Don't get me 
wrong, I presume him to have his bad side and I admit to having more opinion 
in the matter than I do knowledge. 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:34 EST 2008
Article: 1576196 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:17:10 -0500
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 wrote in message 
news:fppk1v$dvf$2@reader2.panix.com...
> In misc.survivalism Meldon  wrote:
>
>>  wrote in message
>> news:fppev4$ae5$3@reader2.panix.com...
>> > In misc.survivalism Meldon  wrote:
>> >
>> >>  wrote in message
>> >> news:fpn1ct$etg$1@reader2.panix.com...
>> >> > In misc.survivalism Anarchore  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> It is up to US to expose the Jew predators, not the Jews.
>> >> >
>> >> > And you are doing a horrible job of it.  Most everyone you try to
>> >> > convince
>> >> > just ends up concluding that you are a nutcase.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >> As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, 
>> >> it
>> >> stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns 
>> >> in
>> >> a
>> >> respectful manner.
>> >
>> > Yep.  You fail to convince pretty much anybody except yourself.  Why 
>> > are
>> > you so unsuccessful?
>> >
>> > -- 
>
>> Poor thing. Is that all you've got? I'm not trying to convert the trough
>> pigs, I'm allowing others to learn of the trough pigs' behavior. Don't 
>> you
>> get it? I'm giving the trough pigs visibility and sunlight is the best
>> disinfectant, politically speaking.
>
>> Your confusing "convincing", (which is what trough pigs do), with raising
>> awareness, (which is what trough pigs *claim* to do).
>
> You fail at raising awareness. Instead, you convince others that you are a
> loon, and that the subject of which they are to become aware is the
> product of other loons.
>
> If you had a verifiable point, your task would be easily accomplished.
> But so far, you are a miserable failure.
>

Well, I would like to think my efforts were not completely a miserable 
failure. Its a process of gleaning tiny pieces of information to a giant 
puzzle. I think I'm getting closer to a plausible explanation of, if you 
will, the leviathan. I will state now and hope to be clear, I don't suspect 
jews or any other "cabal" to be solely responsible nor are they completely 
innocent. In a recent post which I hope to soon reprint in a new thread, I 
try to make a case showing fraud as an integral part of, and necessary for 
what is considered to be a "healthy economy'. In short, the economic model 
is the leviathan. Any relevant conspiracy taking place is the one where the 
amount of fraud inherent to the system, is being suppressed. So, the 
economic model is the leviathan and perhaps the most important "secret" is 
the amount of fraud which takes place.




> -- 
> The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
> certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
> -- Bertrand Russel
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Sun Feb 24 11:27:35 EST 2008
Article: 1576197 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.religion.christian.baptist,can.politics,soc.men,misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:36:33 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13s16u8949tc446@corp.supernews.com...
> In article ,
>  wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>You fail at raising awareness. Instead, you convince others that you are a
>>loon, and that the subject of which they are to become aware is the
>>product of other loons.
>
> I find it interesting that Mr. Fens does not understand this, but then,
> that's what loons do.
>
>>If you had a verifiable point, your task would be easily accomplished.
>>But so far, you are a miserable failure.
>
> At least he's consistent - from his track record on UseNet, it's clear
> he's been a failure from the git-go.
>

Waaaah! I deserve your critique. I have been too hard on you and my 
"miserable failure" poke at you was uncalled for. You're just so damned 
irritating sometimes and my tolerance wears thin. I don't consider myself a 
failure however but I will certainly agree that I'm not a success by 
society's standards. I would argue a great deal, though not all, of my 
hardship is due to external forces (no, not UFO's), so most of the time I 
don't feel bad about myself but it *is* frustrating to be locked out of the 
game when I feel I have a lot to offer which is productive and positive.

You should check an article, (not sure if I can find it off hand), dealing 
with the issue of "gifted children". It was very helpful to me and seemed to 
offer a plausible explanation and insight for many events in my life which 
were difficult to explain. I'm definitely what I would consider, "fringe". 
That's to say, I'm located somewhere on one of the thin edges of the bell 
curve and a minority of sorts. I'm often the brunt of jokes or ridicule but 
I've faced that from a young age and am quite accustomed to it by now. I 
just try to be patient, understanding, empathetic and attempt to provide 
insight whenever possible. 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:48:00 EST 2008
Article: 1576984 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.economics.austrian-school,alt.politics.economics,can.politics,soc.men,uk.media
Subject: Emphasis on Growth is a Fraud 
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:56:02 -0500
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"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up 
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and 
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the 
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism 
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html

---------


Greed may be a form of gathering resources, but the assertion, "greed is 
good", is a flawed premise.

An organism's success does not necessarily mean it is within the bounds of 
natural law and therefore sustainable. Success is no guarantee from failure. 
The natural environment provides growth limiting factors to organisms for a 
reason, namely, preventing one from being "too greedy".

The tree that can grow so rapidly that it can't be supported by its 
environment, is doomed. This contradicts the assertion that the more growth 
an organism can achieve, the better for the organism. "Biologically, for any 
organism that is successful greed is good."

The assertion also ignores the value of an organism that experiences slower 
growth.

Whereas one organism is exceptionally greedy, produces in abundance but who's 
qualities are less favorable, an organism which experiences slower growth, 
in less abundance can have more favorable qualities. The slow growth of the 
oak produces a highly desirable quality in its hardness and the beauty of 
its close, straight grain while softer, more abundant maples are necessary 
for the construction industry.

Having both oak and maple is more desirable than having more of one at the 
cost or even demise of the other.

The organism is part of a larger system in which both are affected by each 
other.  The larger system provides for a diversity of organisms also 
affecting each other and the shared environment. It seems clear, the system 
seeks to create organisms who's success strategy is not one of dominance but 
diverse harmonic balance.

It appears greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious and proceeded to 
create the myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false yet has 
been peddled to an unsuspecting public. The deception is for profit and by 
their knowledge of the fallacy, is a fraud. 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:48:00 EST 2008
Article: 1577009 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men,uk.media
Subject: The Growth Fraud - The economic model is based on a flawed premise 
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:17:57 -0500
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The Growth Fraud



The economic model is based on a flawed premise.



"When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again 
increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the 
increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." - Ibn 
Khaldun, 1377





It presumes, growth is the measure of success.



"Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds to a 
process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of human 
activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize returns. This 
exponential evolution of our self-organized life-support and cultural 
systems is remarkably creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in 
many ways.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth





The growth model produces a greed effect.



"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger



http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html





.. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of Success)



"The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator of the 
average standard of living of individuals in that country, and economic 
growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in the average 
standard of living." - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth





It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.



A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth and 
its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of three basic 
elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow of energy which 
powers them, and (3) a process for the internal regulation of their 
functioning called feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium 
where system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural systems 
change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human lifetime they 
appear to be static. In reality, the state of natural systems oscillates 
around a mean condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium. (Trewartha, 
et. al., 1977). -

http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/natural_systems.html





It is understood the model is already flawed.



"The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy, however, for 
the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run it tends to be a 
very good indicator (in the very long run it is greatly distorted by the 
large changes in relative prices and sectors in the economy). There is no 
other indicator in economics which is as universal or as widely accepted as 
the GDP." -



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth





Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded to perpetuate a 
myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false. The deception is 
for profit and the fallacy is fraud!








From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:48:01 EST 2008
Article: 1577034 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.support.divorce,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: "Diverse Harmonic Ballance" 
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:22:06 -0500
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"Diverse Harmonic Balance"

 Natural systems reward "Diverse Harmonic Balance". Our economic model
should emulate that of a natural system.


Contents:


Purpose
>From Atom to Economics
Change
The Economic Model is Flawed
Value Revised
Final Conclusion


Purpose:

"Diverse Harmonic Balance" (DHB) presents a framework for understanding and
determining effective choices in complex systems. This document aims to show
our economic model should emulate that of a natural system.



>From Atom to Economics:

Who would perceive that something so complex as economics as simply an
extension of the atom?

Atoms allow for molecules, which allow for cells, which allow for neurons,
which allow for the synapse. The synapse provides for behavior. Behavior
provides for society which
provides for economics.

There are forces which can explain at a fundamental level most if not all we
see and experience. We often fail to frame the argument correctly. Properly
framed, the various forces align in a hierarchical dependence; each one
based on the next. They are all connected and built on the previous
advancement. A clear progression arises and relationships between them
become clearer.

Born states:
"Causality postulates that there are laws by which the occurrence of an
entity B of a certain class depends on the occurrence of an entity A of
another class, where the word entity means any physical object, phenomenon,
situation, or event. A is called the cause, B the effect.
"Antecedence postulates that the cause must be prior to, or at least
simultaneous with, the effect.
"Contiguity postulates that cause and effect must be in spatial contact or
connected by a chain of intermediate things in contact." (Born, 1949)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality



Change

Behavior is shaped by the environment and survival is instinctive.
"The desire to stay alive is an instinctive one, built into the psyche of
the organism. The organism will seek those elements of its environment that
will enhance its chances for survival. These include food, water, oxygen,
and periods of rest to allow the body to repair any wear and tear on the
tissues.
Alternately, it will avoid or evade those elements that might reduce its
chances for survival. Such dangers include predators, starvation,
dehydration, asphyxiation, and situations that can cause damage to the body.
These seek or avoid drives influence the behavior of organisms: iron seeking
bacteria will move toward magnetism, gnus will migrate hundreds of miles to
find new pastures, a human will resort to cannibalism; an amoeba will flow
away from an electric current, an antelope will run from a lion, a human
will obey a killer or withstand torture." -Taking Advantage, The Biological
Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Society and Economics provide new and profound environmental agents of
behavioral change.

"Humans live in an extremely complex society. Thus, self-preservation is a
much more complicated proposition than among other animals. Eating to
satisfy hunger is more than just finding proper vegetation or hunting;. To
deal with the complexity, human society has become, to a large extent, an
economic one." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Interaction with new environmental factors requires modifications in human
behavior.
"Of course, this means the life has to change as well, to match the new
conditions. If it doesn't, it dies." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis
of Human Behavior http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Conclusion 1: The economic market place is the new savannah. Our lives are
governed primarily by market forces created by economics principles. Where
we once may have worshiped and been primarily shaped by the elements of
nature, we now worship and are primarily shaped by the forces of economics.



The Economic Model is Flawed

The economic model is based on a flawed premise.

"When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again
increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the
increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." - Ibn
Khaldun, 1377


It presumes, growth is the measure of success.

"Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds to a
process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of human
activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize returns. This
exponential evolution of our self-organized life-support and cultural
systems is remarkably creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in
many ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


The growth model produces a greed effect.

"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


.. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of Success)

"The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator of the
average standard of living of individuals in that country, and economic
growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in the average
standard of living." -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.

A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth and
its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of three basic
elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow of energy which
powers them, and (3) a process for the internal regulation of their
functioning called feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium
where system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural systems
change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human lifetime they
appear to be static. In reality, the state of natural systems oscillates
around a mean condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium. (Trewartha,
et. al., 1977). -
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/natural_systems.html


It is already understood the model is flawed.

"The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy, however, for
the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run it tends to be a
very good indicator (in the very long run it is greatly distorted by the
large changes in relative prices and sectors in the economy). There is no
other indicator in economics which is as universal or as widely accepted as
the GDP." -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


Conclusion 2: Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded
to perpetuate a myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false. The
deception is for profit and the fallacy a fraud!


Value Revised

If the premise of growth is flawed and the measure of economic value is
growth, then the measure of economic value must also be flawed.

"The economic value of something is how much a desired object or condition
is worth relative to other objects or conditions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_%28economics%29

The signs are many that the system may be in danger of collapse just as a
building designed outside of the limits of natural law is bound to fail
sooner than if it had been within the bounds of natural law. Massive amounts
of resources might save the building but when something falls outside of
natural law, its sustainability is reduced.

To determine economic value, sustainability must be included.



Final Conclusion:

Our economic model should emulate that of a natural system. Natural systems
reward "Diverse Harmonic Balance".

The construct of economics as the new hunting ground, is completely
artificial and a product of our making. It is not necessarily within the
bounds of the natural law for which we were designed. We are not necessarily
designed to thrive within the bounds of an artificial construct unless the
construct falls within the bounds of natural design from which we came.

The economic market place is the new savannah. Where we once may have
worshiped the elements of nature, we now worship the forces of economics.
Our lives are governed primarily by market forces created by economics
currently in conflict with natural law.






From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:48:01 EST 2008
Article: 1577077 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.support.divorce,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: "Diverse Harmonic Balance"
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:37:17 -0500
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"Diverse Harmonic Balance"

Our economic model should emulate a natural system.


Contents:

Purpose:
>From Atom to Economics:
Change.
The Economic Model is Flawed.
Value Revised.
Final Conclusion:



Purpose:

"Diverse Harmonic Balance" (DHB) presents a framework for understanding and 
determining effective choices in complex systems. This document aims to show 
our economic model should emulate that of a natural system.


>From Atom to Economics:

There are forces which can explain at a fundamental level most if not all we 
see and experience. We often fail to frame the argument correctly. Properly 
framed, the various forces align in a hierarchical dependence; each one 
based on the next. They are all connected and built on the previous 
advancement. A clear progression arises and relationships between them 
become clearer.


Who could perceive that something so complex as economics as simply an 
extension of the atom?

Atoms allow for molecules, which allow for cells, which allow for neurons, 
which allow for the synapse. The synapse provides for behavior. Behavior 
provides for society which provides for economics.

Born states:

"Causality postulates that there are laws by which the occurrence of an 
entity B of a certain class depends on the occurrence of an entity A of 
another class, where the word entity means any physical object, phenomenon, 
situation, or event. A is called the cause, B the effect.

"Antecedence postulates that the cause must be prior to, or at least 
simultaneous with, the effect.

"Contiguity postulates that cause and effect must be in spatial contact or 
connected by a chain of intermediate things in contact." (Born, 1949)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality


Change

Behavior is shaped by the environment and survival is instinctive.

"The desire to stay alive is an instinctive one, built into the psyche of 
the organism. The organism will seek those elements of its environment that 
will enhance its chances for survival. These include food, water, oxygen, 
and periods of rest to allow the body to repair any wear and tear on the 
tissues. Alternately, it will avoid or evade those elements that might 
reduce its chances for survival. Such dangers include predators, starvation, 
dehydration, asphyxiation, and situations that can cause damage to the body. 
These seek or avoid drives influence the behavior of organisms: iron seeking 
bacteria will move toward magnetism, gnus will migrate hundreds of miles to 
find new pastures, a human will resort to cannibalism; an amoeba will flow 
away from an electric current, an antelope will run from a lion, a human 
will obey a killer or withstand torture." -Taking Advantage, The Biological 
Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Society and Economics provide new and profound environmental agents of 
behavioral change.

"Humans live in an extremely complex society. Thus, self-preservation is a 
much more complicated proposition than among other animals. Eating to 
satisfy hunger is more than just finding proper vegetation or hunting;. To 
deal with the complexity, human society has become, to a large extent, an 
economic one." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Interaction with new environmental factors requires modifications in human 
behavior.

"Of course, this means the life has to change as well, to match the new 
conditions. If it doesn't, it dies." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis 
of Human Behavior http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Conclusion 1: The economic market place is the new savannah. Our lives are 
governed primarily by market forces created by economics principles. Where 
we once may have worshiped and been primarily shaped by the elements of 
nature, we now worship and are primarily shaped by the forces of economics.


The Economic Model is Flawed

The economic model is based on a flawed premise.

"When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again 
increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the 
increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." - Ibn 
Khaldun, 1377


It presumes, growth is the measure of success.

"Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds to a 
process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of human 
activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize returns. This 
exponential evolution of our self-organized life-support and cultural 
systems is remarkably creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in 
many ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


The growth model produces a greed effect...

"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and 
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the 
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism 
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


.. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of Success)

"The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator of the 
average standard of living of individuals in that country, and economic 
growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in the average 
standard of living." -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.

"A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth and 
its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of three basic 
elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow of energy which 
powers them, and (3) a process for the internal regulation of their 
functioning called feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium 
where system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural systems
change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human lifetime they 
appear to be static. In reality, the state of natural systems oscillates 
around a mean condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium." (Trewartha, 
et. al., 1977). -
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/natural_systems.html


It is already understood the model is flawed.

"The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy, however, for 
the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run it tends to be a 
very good indicator (in the very long run it is greatly distorted by the 
large changes in relative prices and sectors in the economy). There is no 
other indicator in economics which is as universal or as widely accepted as 
the GDP." -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


Conclusion 2: Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded 
to perpetuate a myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false. The 
deception is for profit and the fallacy a fraud!


Value Revised

If the premise of growth is flawed and the measure of economic value is 
growth, then the measure of economic value must also be flawed.

"The economic value of something is how much a desired object or condition 
is worth relative to other objects or conditions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_%28economics%29

The signs are many that the system may be in danger of collapse just as a 
building designed outside of the limits of natural law is bound to fail 
sooner than if it had been within the bounds of natural law. Massive amounts 
of resources might save the building but when something falls outside of 
natural law, its sustainability is reduced.

To determine economic value, sustainability must be included.


Final Conclusion:


The economic market place is the new savannah. Where we once may have 
worshiped the elements of nature, we now worship the forces of economics. 
Our lives are governed primarily by market forces created by economics 
currently in conflict with natural law.

The construct of economics as the new hunting ground, is completely 
artificial and a product of our making. It is not necessarily within the 
bounds of the natural law from and for which we were designed. We are not 
necessarily designed to thrive within the bounds of an artificial construct 
unless the construct falls within the bounds of natural design from which we 
came.

Our economic model should emulate that of a natural system. The correction 
is to revise the nature of economic value to include sustainability. Natural 
systems reward "Diverse Harmonic Balance".

-----
 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:48:02 EST 2008
Article: 1577151 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics,can.politics,soc.men,uk.media
Subject: Re: The Growth Fraud - The economic model is based on a flawed premise
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:47:23 -0500
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"Anarchore"  wrote in message 
news:13s8bdvm94qut0f@corp.supernews.com...
> Meldon wrote:
>
>> The Growth Fraud
>>
>>
>>
>> The economic model is based on a flawed premise.
>>
>>
>>
>> "When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again
>> increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the
>> increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." -
>> Ibn Khaldun, 1377
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It presumes, growth is the measure of success.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds
>> to a process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of
>> human activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize
>> returns. This exponential evolution of our self-organized
>> life-support and cultural systems is remarkably creative and
>> flexible, but highly unpredictable in many ways.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_an
>> d_Theories_of_Economic_Growth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The growth model produces a greed effect.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It
>> conjures up images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over
>> their gold and ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However,
>> it is actually the gathering of resources, the more the better.
>> Biologically, for any organism that is successful greed is good." -
>> Richard F. Taflinger
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of
>> Success)
>>
>>
>>
>> "The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator
>> of the average standard of living of individuals in that country, and
>> economic growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in
>> the average standard of living." -
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_an
>> d_Theories_of_Economic_Growth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.
>>
>>
>>
>> A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth
>> and its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of
>> three basic elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow
>> of energy which powers them, and (3) a process for the internal
>> regulation of their functioning called feedback. Most systems tend
>> toward a state of equilibrium where system inputs are balanced by
>> system outputs. Though natural systems change over long periods of
>> time, on the scale of a human lifetime they appear to be static. In
>> reality, the state of natural systems oscillates around a mean
>> condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium. (Trewartha, et.
>> al., 1977). -
>>
>> http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/n
>> atural_systems.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It is understood the model is already flawed.
>>
>>
>>
>> "The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy,
>> however, for the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run
>> it tends to be a very good indicator (in the very long run it is
>> greatly distorted by the large changes in relative prices and sectors
>> in the economy). There is no other indicator in economics which is as
>> universal or as widely accepted as the GDP." -
>>
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_an
>> d_Theories_of_Economic_Growth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded to
>> perpetuate a myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false.
>> The deception is for profit and the fallacy is fraud!
>
> They think they can have infinite growth on a finite planet.  They are
> crazy.
>
> -- 
>

Crazy or complicit? 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:52 EST 2008
Article: 1825192 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: McVay Brings Orwell to Life
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:34:00 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Omega..Men....."  wrote 
in message news:1iEvj.39803$w57.10428@edtnps90...
> McVay is an idiot, ignore the stupid fuck! He not that bright you know!
> This Red Smurf lives in Nanaimo, and believe he doing the world a favor 
> with
> his retardation.... in fact, he hasn't got a clue what's coming, when the
> New World Order nazi's put forth the final solution.
>
> .......................................

He certainly appears to fail when it comes to following what he preaches. 
Its rather disturbing, (in more ways than one), to realize he as an example 
of the people who are self-proclaimed thought police. It also brings to mind 
those who have political access and legislative influence; most seem to be 
quite mentally unstable or at least on the fringes of the bell curve of, for 
lack of better description, normal, tolerant society.

>
>
> "Meldon"  wrote in message
> news:13rt82hlbggr2cf@corp.supernews.com...
>> This well renowned "gentleman" in a recent newsgroup dialogue made
> numerous
>> hurtful, unfounded and inflammatory accusations toward me. He was awarded
>> the OBC in 1995 for his "battle against... hate on the internet".
>>
>> It is in my opinion that this individual is a direct threat to myself and
> a
>> danger to anyone who dares question or criticize anything he deems
>> unsuitable for discussion.
>>
>> I wish him no harm nor do I hold any ill will toward him. However, this
>> feeling is clearly not mutual and rings of the ominous warnings raised in
>> Orwell's book, "1984".
>>
>> I bid you peace Mr. McVay and hope that you will not have to suffer the
> same
>> level of destruction that I have had to endure.
>>
>> ".....Backed by a volunteer team of 65 sympathetic computer activists
> around
>> the world, Mr. McVay continues his battle against those who spread hate
>> through the Internet. He has built a database of 2,500 electronic 
>> files -- 
>> more than 2 million words -- on fascism and the Holocaust which is
> regularly
>> accessed for scholarly research...."
>>
>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 080221-0, 02/21/2008
>> Tested on: 2/22/2008 10:09:22 AM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:52 EST 2008
Article: 1825217 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:29:13 -0500
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"Omega..Men....."  wrote 
in message news:ypFvj.39844$w57.36521@edtnps90...
> McVay and his government kooks don't frighten myself!
> When the New World Order kooks, put things in place with there death cult
> throughout the world and there doing just that! They will make the german
> holocaust from Nazi Germany will just look like a fun day at the park, 
> when
> the NWO get to do what they want for their goat god. I wonder why McVay 
> and
> those's who pretend to look for hate crimes and Nazi's, still have not
> firgured out what the goals of the NWO is all about....the reason is,
> because they support the NWO goals.
>
> .......................................

If I could get past the atrociously poor grammar in your statement I might 
be inclined to agree with you. Unfortunately (though likely by design) a 
demonstration of this nature does not assist the resistance.

>
>
> "Meldon"  wrote in message
> news:13rt82iceaa9td1@corp.supernews.com...
>> Kenneth McVay provides a more effective antidote than censorship - FEAR!
>>
>> "...Working to bring hate out in the open and expose it, Kenneth McVay
>> provides a more effective antidote than censorship."
>>
>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 080221-0, 02/21/2008
>> Tested on: 2/22/2008 10:08:02 AM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:52 EST 2008
Article: 1825218 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: McVay Brings Orwell to Life
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:30:40 -0500
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"Omega..Men....."  wrote 
in message news:voEvj.39809$w57.6280@edtnps90...
>
> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
> news:13rtsbc37p3alec@corp.supernews.com...
>> In article <13rt82hlbggr2cf@corp.supernews.com>,
>> Meldon  wrote:
>> >This well renowned "gentleman" in a recent newsgroup dialogue made
> numerous
>> >hurtful, unfounded and inflammatory accusations toward me. He was 
>> >awarded
>> >the OBC in 1995 for his "battle against... hate on the internet".
>>
>> You mean "unfounded and inflmmatory accusations" that you are a liar,
> along
>> with examples to prove it?
>
> McVay fuck off you goofy shit!
> While your playing retard on the internet, the New World Order nazi's in 
> the
> Global Elite, are bring out more camps and will make the holocaust will 
> look
> like just a wonderland park, you stupid fuck!
>
> Why are you not going after the death cult freaks murdering and committing
> genocide in the world, example, like the Nazi Bush family, or the 
> Clinton's
> who murdered thousands in Canada with the blood scandal contamination. The
> reason you don't is, because you are a phony shit, who supports the death
> cult in Government, who have become the real terrorists in the world, you
> kook!
>
>

Wow! We are truly in trouble. 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:52 EST 2008
Article: 1825319 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.civil-liberty,alt.culture,alt.freespeech,soc.culture.jewish,uk.media
Subject: The Grand Phishing Scam No One Will Tell You About
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:10:53 -0500
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It is irrefutably clear to me and others, having experienced first hand the
awesome burden placed on the shoulders of average "majority" stake-holders
in this "democracy" that the internet in particular is flooded with paid
advocates who will sell you down the river in order to pad their pockets.

For any white, anglo individual or group, great care and consideration must
be taken with any expression; no, every word, intent, inference and
implication one makes. The laws are so broad and encompassing, that anything
you say can be considered beyond the bounds of legal engagement. Even
mentioning "jewish conspiracy" will be considered as evidence against you. I
am in fact risking legal action by typing those two words!

If you think the ADL is the active agent, you're dead wrong. While I have no
doubt they are quite active, others have "taken up the cause". That is to
say, if they play the game, they will do well. Those who appear resistant
are considered enemies of the state and will be laid low by the law,
advocates, policies and legislation that few realize apart from the pocket
padders, until they are unfortunate enough to experience it.

Be very wary of dialogue of any kind with someone before you investigate
their possible motives and research at least their posting history. The
evasive and provocative discussions they offer are an early indication that
they intend to ensnare you. Its not for enjoyment or even a good cause. It
is for profit!

Our fathers, grandfathers and great grandfathers did not fight for "equality
under the law with exceptions". Nor did they fight for a society which
legislates its own destruction. What is taking place is abhorrent to
everything they fought for and an affront to anything considered a "free
society".

An often quoted allegory demonstrating the limits of free speech is, "You
can't yell fire in a crowded theatre." The assumption is, the theatre is NOT
on fire. The reality today is, it is illegal to yell fire in a crowded
theatre, even when its burning since truth is not defense for what is
considered "hate".

A brief search of cases will quickly indicate these truths. What is amazing
is, the statutes are written to be ALL inclusive. In the case law, you see
the repeated specter of exceptions made by race, skin colour, religion or
ethnicity and in some cases gender. Everyone is included except those who
have not experienced "historical oppression". That simply means, members of
society who are unfortunate enough to be considered white anglo are NOT
included since they have not experienced historical oppression. Those with
financial resources will fair better but for those without, you're the first
to be eliminated. (Yup, just like Nazi Germany).

Its legal trickery. It is not by accident, natural occurrence or unintended
consequence; it is by design and you are in immediate danger. I only wish I
was fear-mongering. Those who have already experienced it will know it is an
absolute and indisputable reality. 1984 is here and it is real. Achtung!






From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:52 EST 2008
Article: 1825320 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.civil-liberty,alt.culture,alt.freespeech,soc.culture.jewish,uk.media
Subject: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:10:21 -0500
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In which of the following do you think we are living?



MLK's dream:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content
of their character."


MLK's nightmare:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
where they will be judged not by the content of their character but by the
color of their skin ."





From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:53 EST 2008
Article: 1825321 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.civil-liberty,alt.culture,alt.freespeech,soc.culture.jewish,uk.media
Subject: Re: Huxley Warned Us
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:14:53 -0500
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"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
news:13ruqkfspit0s16@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <13ru7m5cq3lmj9c@corp.supernews.com>,
> Meldon Fens  wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>As so few people are aware or willing to admit of such a possibility, it
>>stands to reason that fewer people are able to express their concerns in a
>>respectful manner. I have also "lashed out" in frustration and anger until
>>I
>>reviewed "hate laws". (Those are the laws that pretend to prohibit hate
>>toward everyone while in fact allowing hate against caucasians.)
>
> Please show how Canada's anti-hate legislation allows hate against
> Caucasians. Cite the
> appropriate Federal and Supreme Court of Canada rulings.
>



Simple. By virtue of DISTINGUISHING between races, cultures and religions,
the law allows hate to transpire against Caucasians. Evidence of this
selective method of protection is found in statements such as "...groups
that are in a minority situation and that have historically suffered...".
There is no perceived historical suffering or minority situation of white
anglos and therefore the law does not apply. A different and selective 
protection is readily
apparent for that group alone. Short form - whites, caucasians, anglos and 
so on,
ARE TREATED DIFFERENT. In any other form this would be considered
discriminatory but the law is drafted in this fashion and is clearly not by
accident.

"...Considering the abject nature of the messages and their likely impact on
individuals and groups that are in a minority situation and that have
historically suffered from precisely the kind of bias underpinning these
vile attacks, it could be assumed that the harm suffered will have a
long-term impact and may be extremely difficult to repair...." - T-1309-05,
2005 FC 1493
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/chrt/doc/2007/2007chrt49/2007chrt49.html


Further, every other group can be racist but not white / anglo /caucasian
and this is demonstrated when evidence such as a white person who wishes not
to associate with non-whites for example, "I just don't feel the need to
be-friend non-whites, as they can do nothing for me, nor would I like to
associate with them. I am fine with my own kind, and always will/have been."
Clearly, expressing this sentiment in public can be considered illegal since
the statement is used as evidence against the respondent.

"...I just don't feel the need to be-friend non-whites, as they can do
nothing for me, nor would I like to associate with them. I am fine with my
own kind, and always will/have been..." - T1106/8705, 2007 CHRT 49
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=hate+white&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/ca/chrt/doc/2007/2007chrt49/2007chrt49.html


In a case where a respondent expressed theories of conspiratorial nature,
the subject itself was also used as evidence against them. Once again it is
clear, expressing this sentiment in public can be considered illegal since
the statement is used as evidence against the respondent.

"...the messages expounded the "theory" that Jewish people operate a secret
conspiracy designed to extort money and amass tremendous power and control
on a global level.." - T1071/5205 - 2006 CHRT 50
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/chrt/doc/2006/2006chrt50/2006chrt50.html

There are many more examples of cases of this nature successfully argued.
However, even after extensive research, I could not locate a single case of
a white European, or caucasian obtaining remedy or even having a complaint
filed. In other words, there appears to be little if any caucasian
complainants and even less successfully argued cases of caucasian
complainants. This is easily explained when there no "white advocacy" groups
available to take the cases. By comparison, every other group is offered
protection by virtue of advocates and non-profits involved with "anti-hate"
activities. I can just imagine the hilarity that occurs when some poor
bastard applies for government funding for a non-profit advocacy of white
anglo protectionism. After the laughter stops, the application is swiftly
rejected.

I'm sure I'm not going to convince you. It is part of your job to defend
your position. You have a vested financial interest in policing the
internet. As for people like me, we are just trying to make sense of the
insane bullshit and if we're lucky, survive. When you get down to the heart
of it, the motivation behind fascism in the form liberal ideals is profit
and nothing more. By comparison, people like me, marginal to begin with, are
suffering the immense burden of liberal-left policies in order to placate
every other group that can be imagined. Personally, I'm hoping for a poverty
study that indicates dramatic increases in white, anglo or caucasian poverty
levels. Of course, that can't happen in a political climate that defines
such an action as racist.

The only reason I am forced to speak in terms of race, ethnicity, culture or
religion to begin with is the fallacy of equality (equity) laws which seek
equal outcomes as determined by race, ethnicity, culture or religion. It is
clear, the laws have been crafted using distinction of race, ethnicity,
culture and religion by design. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. did not promote
this kind of human rights as referenced in the famous, world renowned and
highly regarded speech in which he states:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content
of their character." - MLK's dream

It should be clear to anyone at this point the dream has been reversed and
legislated as follows, ""I have a dream that my four little
children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the
content of their character but by the color of their skin ." - MLK's
nightmare










From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:53 EST 2008
Article: 1825366 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.civil-liberty,alt.culture,alt.freespeech,soc.culture.jewish,uk.media
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King's Nightmare
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:37:32 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"ElParedon"  wrote in message 
news:kKNvj.94589$_m.81960@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Meldon"  wrote in message 
> news:13rv74tgt0sf400@corp.supernews.com...
>> In which of the following do you think we are living?
>
> Neither, United States is the most dicriminatory, racist society on Earth, 
> after ISRAEL!
>>

Then that would be MLK's nightmare (2nd of two options provided).

>>
>> MLK's dream:
>>
>> "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>> nation
>> where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the 
>> content
>> of their character."
>>
>>
>> MLK's nightmare:
>>
>> "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a 
>> nation
>> where they will be judged not by the content of their character but by 
>> the
>> color of their skin ."
>>
>>
>>
>
> 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:53 EST 2008
Article: 1825392 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Dear Mr. McVay - Profanity
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:41:20 -0500
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I Wonder, if you would be so kind as to address your thoughts and perhaps
provide some citations on the issue of profanity, its relationship to hate
and how legislation might provide benefits in addition to your "battle
against those who spread hate through the Internet".

Please forgive me in advance for my late response as this is my 36 hour,
government allocated, parenting weekend of which I have been granted two per
month and which afforded to date approximately $40,000 in associated legal
fees, $30,000 in child support and 30,000 Kms of travel.









From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:54 EST 2008
Article: 1825402 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: 12 Bar Blues by Meldon
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:21:40 -0500
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Everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

I said, everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

If blues are my friend,
why can't they bring me happy news?

I got the blues in morning
the blues in the night
the blues when I'm wrong
the blues when I'm right

Yeah, I got the blues, hey now honey
even when I go to bed.
Well if I don't find some sweet remedy,
I'll surely wish that I was dead.

I got the blues when I'm hot
the blues when I'm cold
the blues when I'm tellin'
the blues when I'm told

Yeh I got the blues, hey now baby,
even when I'm running late.
Well if the blues don't go away soon,
they won't let me participate.

I got the blues when I'm tired
the blues when I'm awake,
the blues for bad insomnia,
and the blues for goodness sake.

Yeh I got the blues, oh my sweet lord,
just like the wind that's in my sail.
If someone takes my song the wrong way,
they'll lock me up in hater's jail.

Everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

I said, everyday,
everyday I get the blues.

If blues are my friend,
why can't they bring me happy news?




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:54 EST 2008
Article: 1825403 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Dear Mr. McVay - Parody
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:52:58 -0500
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I Wonder, if you would be so kind as to address your thoughts and perhaps
provide some citations on the issue of parody, its relationship to hate
and how legislation might provide benefits in addition to a "battle against
those who spread hate through the Internet".

Please forgive me in advance for my late response as this is my 36 hour,
government allocated, parenting weekend of which I have been granted two per
month and which afforded to date approximately $40,000 in associated legal
fees, $30,000 in child support and 30,000 Kms of travel.










From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:54 EST 2008
Article: 1825422 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.religion.christian.baptist,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: The Road to Hell is Paved....
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:26:07 -0500
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... for profit.





From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:54 EST 2008
Article: 1825439 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: 12 Bar Blues by Meldon
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:05:14 -0500
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"steve fischer"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.2229f2e8b23347798a37e@news.individual.net...
> Meldon  wrote:
>> Everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> I said, everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> If blues are my friend,
>> why can't they bring me happy news?
>>
>> I got the blues in morning
>> the blues in the night
>> the blues when I'm wrong
>> the blues when I'm right
>>
>> Yeah, I got the blues, hey now honey
>> even when I go to bed.
>> Well if I don't find some sweet remedy,
>> I'll surely wish that I was dead.
>>
>> I got the blues when I'm hot
>> the blues when I'm cold
>> the blues when I'm tellin'
>> the blues when I'm told
>>
>> Yeh I got the blues, hey now baby,
>> even when I'm running late.
>> Well if the blues don't go away soon,
>> they won't let me participate.
>>
>> I got the blues when I'm tired
>> the blues when I'm awake,
>> the blues for bad insomnia,
>> and the blues for goodness sake.
>>
>> Yeh I got the blues, oh my sweet lord,
>> just like the wind that's in my sail.
>> If someone takes my song the wrong way,
>> they'll lock me up in hater's jail.
>>
>> Everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> I said, everyday,
>> everyday I get the blues.
>>
>> If blues are my friend,
>> why can't they bring me happy news?
>>
>>
> What a strange coincidence.  I was humming an acquaintances blues tune 
> just
> an hour ago and wanted to post the lyrics.
>
> It's Donnie Walsh's Caledonia (from Downchild Blues Band's second album 
> "But
> We're On The Guest List!") 1973
>
> Donnie's an old bud from days gone by.  He also wrote "Flip Flop and Fly" 
> and
> "I've got everything I need, almost!", made famous with Danny Aykroyd and
> John Belushi's Blues Brothers.
>

Well, well, well; its a small world. Caught Downchild in a small club just 
before we all lost their beloved piano player. I still swear to this day, 
that I saw her mouth the word "hospital" to one of the members during one of 
the tunes. (afflicted with leukemia and was likely heading for some test or 
treatment right after the show).

Those were pretty successful hits and when they did clubs, you got brass, 
keys, guitar, drums and bass. I'm sure they're still kicking up a storm. 
I'll take any guitar jobs they might be able to offer.




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:54 EST 2008
Article: 1825651 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: Re: 12 Bar Blues by Meldon
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:23:32 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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"Salad"  wrote in message 
news:13s0ukoigal1eba@corp.supernews.com...
> Meldon wrote:
>
>> "steve fischer"  wrote in message 
>> news:MPG.2229f2e8b23347798a37e@news.individual.net...
>>
>>>Meldon  wrote:
>>>
>>>>Everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>I said, everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>If blues are my friend,
>>>>why can't they bring me happy news?
>>>>
>>>>I got the blues in morning
>>>>the blues in the night
>>>>the blues when I'm wrong
>>>>the blues when I'm right
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, I got the blues, hey now honey
>>>>even when I go to bed.
>>>>Well if I don't find some sweet remedy,
>>>>I'll surely wish that I was dead.
>>>>
>>>>I got the blues when I'm hot
>>>>the blues when I'm cold
>>>>the blues when I'm tellin'
>>>>the blues when I'm told
>>>>
>>>>Yeh I got the blues, hey now baby,
>>>>even when I'm running late.
>>>>Well if the blues don't go away soon,
>>>>they won't let me participate.
>>>>
>>>>I got the blues when I'm tired
>>>>the blues when I'm awake,
>>>>the blues for bad insomnia,
>>>>and the blues for goodness sake.
>>>>
>>>>Yeh I got the blues, oh my sweet lord,
>>>>just like the wind that's in my sail.
>>>>If someone takes my song the wrong way,
>>>>they'll lock me up in hater's jail.
>>>>
>>>>Everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>I said, everyday,
>>>>everyday I get the blues.
>>>>
>>>>If blues are my friend,
>>>>why can't they bring me happy news?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>What a strange coincidence.  I was humming an acquaintances blues tune 
>>>just
>>>an hour ago and wanted to post the lyrics.
>>>
>>>It's Donnie Walsh's Caledonia (from Downchild Blues Band's second album 
>>>"But
>>>We're On The Guest List!") 1973
>>>
>>>Donnie's an old bud from days gone by.  He also wrote "Flip Flop and Fly" 
>>>and
>>>"I've got everything I need, almost!", made famous with Danny Aykroyd and
>>>John Belushi's Blues Brothers.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well, well, well; its a small world. Caught Downchild in a small club 
>> just before we all lost their beloved piano player. I still swear to this 
>> day, that I saw her mouth the word "hospital" to one of the members 
>> during one of the tunes. (afflicted with leukemia and was likely heading 
>> for some test or treatment right after the show).
>>
>> Those were pretty successful hits and when they did clubs, you got brass, 
>> keys, guitar, drums and bass. I'm sure they're still kicking up a storm. 
>> I'll take any guitar jobs they might be able to offer.
>>
> Maybe you can then find some white pussy and make white babies.

I suppose romance, procreation and raising a family would be quite desirable 
for most people, myself included. The first step however, is being able to 
participate as a viable and contributing member of society.

Personally, I try to make no discernment of race, ethnicity, nationality or 
religion as I consider each of these flawed distinctions as junk science, 
ie., fraud rather than genuine. 




From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:55 EST 2008
Article: 1826287 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men,uk.media
Subject: The Growth Fraud - The economic model is based on a flawed premise 
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:17:57 -0500
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The Growth Fraud



The economic model is based on a flawed premise.



"When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again 
increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the 
increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." - Ibn 
Khaldun, 1377





It presumes, growth is the measure of success.



"Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds to a 
process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of human 
activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize returns. This 
exponential evolution of our self-organized life-support and cultural 
systems is remarkably creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in 
many ways.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth





The growth model produces a greed effect.



"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger



http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html





.. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of Success)



"The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator of the 
average standard of living of individuals in that country, and economic 
growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in the average 
standard of living." - 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth





It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.



A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth and 
its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of three basic 
elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow of energy which 
powers them, and (3) a process for the internal regulation of their 
functioning called feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium 
where system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural systems 
change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human lifetime they 
appear to be static. In reality, the state of natural systems oscillates 
around a mean condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium. (Trewartha, 
et. al., 1977). -

http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/natural_systems.html





It is understood the model is already flawed.



"The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy, however, for 
the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run it tends to be a 
very good indicator (in the very long run it is greatly distorted by the 
large changes in relative prices and sectors in the economy). There is no 
other indicator in economics which is as universal or as widely accepted as 
the GDP." -



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth





Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded to perpetuate a 
myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false. The deception is 
for profit and the fallacy is fraud!








From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:55 EST 2008
Article: 1826314 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.support.divorce,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: "Diverse Harmonic Ballance" 
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:22:06 -0500
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"Diverse Harmonic Balance"

 Natural systems reward "Diverse Harmonic Balance". Our economic model
should emulate that of a natural system.


Contents:


Purpose
>From Atom to Economics
Change
The Economic Model is Flawed
Value Revised
Final Conclusion


Purpose:

"Diverse Harmonic Balance" (DHB) presents a framework for understanding and
determining effective choices in complex systems. This document aims to show
our economic model should emulate that of a natural system.



>From Atom to Economics:

Who would perceive that something so complex as economics as simply an
extension of the atom?

Atoms allow for molecules, which allow for cells, which allow for neurons,
which allow for the synapse. The synapse provides for behavior. Behavior
provides for society which
provides for economics.

There are forces which can explain at a fundamental level most if not all we
see and experience. We often fail to frame the argument correctly. Properly
framed, the various forces align in a hierarchical dependence; each one
based on the next. They are all connected and built on the previous
advancement. A clear progression arises and relationships between them
become clearer.

Born states:
"Causality postulates that there are laws by which the occurrence of an
entity B of a certain class depends on the occurrence of an entity A of
another class, where the word entity means any physical object, phenomenon,
situation, or event. A is called the cause, B the effect.
"Antecedence postulates that the cause must be prior to, or at least
simultaneous with, the effect.
"Contiguity postulates that cause and effect must be in spatial contact or
connected by a chain of intermediate things in contact." (Born, 1949)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality



Change

Behavior is shaped by the environment and survival is instinctive.
"The desire to stay alive is an instinctive one, built into the psyche of
the organism. The organism will seek those elements of its environment that
will enhance its chances for survival. These include food, water, oxygen,
and periods of rest to allow the body to repair any wear and tear on the
tissues.
Alternately, it will avoid or evade those elements that might reduce its
chances for survival. Such dangers include predators, starvation,
dehydration, asphyxiation, and situations that can cause damage to the body.
These seek or avoid drives influence the behavior of organisms: iron seeking
bacteria will move toward magnetism, gnus will migrate hundreds of miles to
find new pastures, a human will resort to cannibalism; an amoeba will flow
away from an electric current, an antelope will run from a lion, a human
will obey a killer or withstand torture." -Taking Advantage, The Biological
Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Society and Economics provide new and profound environmental agents of
behavioral change.

"Humans live in an extremely complex society. Thus, self-preservation is a
much more complicated proposition than among other animals. Eating to
satisfy hunger is more than just finding proper vegetation or hunting;. To
deal with the complexity, human society has become, to a large extent, an
economic one." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Interaction with new environmental factors requires modifications in human
behavior.
"Of course, this means the life has to change as well, to match the new
conditions. If it doesn't, it dies." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis
of Human Behavior http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Conclusion 1: The economic market place is the new savannah. Our lives are
governed primarily by market forces created by economics principles. Where
we once may have worshiped and been primarily shaped by the elements of
nature, we now worship and are primarily shaped by the forces of economics.



The Economic Model is Flawed

The economic model is based on a flawed premise.

"When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again
increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the
increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." - Ibn
Khaldun, 1377


It presumes, growth is the measure of success.

"Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds to a
process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of human
activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize returns. This
exponential evolution of our self-organized life-support and cultural
systems is remarkably creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in
many ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


The growth model produces a greed effect.

"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


.. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of Success)

"The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator of the
average standard of living of individuals in that country, and economic
growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in the average
standard of living." -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.

A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth and
its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of three basic
elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow of energy which
powers them, and (3) a process for the internal regulation of their
functioning called feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium
where system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural systems
change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human lifetime they
appear to be static. In reality, the state of natural systems oscillates
around a mean condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium. (Trewartha,
et. al., 1977). -
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/natural_systems.html


It is already understood the model is flawed.

"The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy, however, for
the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run it tends to be a
very good indicator (in the very long run it is greatly distorted by the
large changes in relative prices and sectors in the economy). There is no
other indicator in economics which is as universal or as widely accepted as
the GDP." -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


Conclusion 2: Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded
to perpetuate a myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false. The
deception is for profit and the fallacy a fraud!


Value Revised

If the premise of growth is flawed and the measure of economic value is
growth, then the measure of economic value must also be flawed.

"The economic value of something is how much a desired object or condition
is worth relative to other objects or conditions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_%28economics%29

The signs are many that the system may be in danger of collapse just as a
building designed outside of the limits of natural law is bound to fail
sooner than if it had been within the bounds of natural law. Massive amounts
of resources might save the building but when something falls outside of
natural law, its sustainability is reduced.

To determine economic value, sustainability must be included.



Final Conclusion:

Our economic model should emulate that of a natural system. Natural systems
reward "Diverse Harmonic Balance".

The construct of economics as the new hunting ground, is completely
artificial and a product of our making. It is not necessarily within the
bounds of the natural law for which we were designed. We are not necessarily
designed to thrive within the bounds of an artificial construct unless the
construct falls within the bounds of natural design from which we came.

The economic market place is the new savannah. Where we once may have
worshiped the elements of nature, we now worship the forces of economics.
Our lives are governed primarily by market forces created by economics
currently in conflict with natural law.






From meldon@meldon.com Tue Feb 26 14:50:55 EST 2008
Article: 1826351 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.support.divorce,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: "Diverse Harmonic Balance"
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:37:17 -0500
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"Diverse Harmonic Balance"

Our economic model should emulate a natural system.


Contents:

Purpose:
>From Atom to Economics:
Change.
The Economic Model is Flawed.
Value Revised.
Final Conclusion:



Purpose:

"Diverse Harmonic Balance" (DHB) presents a framework for understanding and 
determining effective choices in complex systems. This document aims to show 
our economic model should emulate that of a natural system.


>From Atom to Economics:

There are forces which can explain at a fundamental level most if not all we 
see and experience. We often fail to frame the argument correctly. Properly 
framed, the various forces align in a hierarchical dependence; each one 
based on the next. They are all connected and built on the previous 
advancement. A clear progression arises and relationships between them 
become clearer.


Who could perceive that something so complex as economics as simply an 
extension of the atom?

Atoms allow for molecules, which allow for cells, which allow for neurons, 
which allow for the synapse. The synapse provides for behavior. Behavior 
provides for society which provides for economics.

Born states:

"Causality postulates that there are laws by which the occurrence of an 
entity B of a certain class depends on the occurrence of an entity A of 
another class, where the word entity means any physical object, phenomenon, 
situation, or event. A is called the cause, B the effect.

"Antecedence postulates that the cause must be prior to, or at least 
simultaneous with, the effect.

"Contiguity postulates that cause and effect must be in spatial contact or 
connected by a chain of intermediate things in contact." (Born, 1949)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality


Change

Behavior is shaped by the environment and survival is instinctive.

"The desire to stay alive is an instinctive one, built into the psyche of 
the organism. The organism will seek those elements of its environment that 
will enhance its chances for survival. These include food, water, oxygen, 
and periods of rest to allow the body to repair any wear and tear on the 
tissues. Alternately, it will avoid or evade those elements that might 
reduce its chances for survival. Such dangers include predators, starvation, 
dehydration, asphyxiation, and situations that can cause damage to the body. 
These seek or avoid drives influence the behavior of organisms: iron seeking 
bacteria will move toward magnetism, gnus will migrate hundreds of miles to 
find new pastures, a human will resort to cannibalism; an amoeba will flow 
away from an electric current, an antelope will run from a lion, a human 
will obey a killer or withstand torture." -Taking Advantage, The Biological 
Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Society and Economics provide new and profound environmental agents of 
behavioral change.

"Humans live in an extremely complex society. Thus, self-preservation is a 
much more complicated proposition than among other animals. Eating to 
satisfy hunger is more than just finding proper vegetation or hunting;. To 
deal with the complexity, human society has become, to a large extent, an 
economic one." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis of Human Behavior
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Interaction with new environmental factors requires modifications in human 
behavior.

"Of course, this means the life has to change as well, to match the new 
conditions. If it doesn't, it dies." -Taking Advantage, The Biological Basis 
of Human Behavior http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


Conclusion 1: The economic market place is the new savannah. Our lives are 
governed primarily by market forces created by economics principles. Where 
we once may have worshiped and been primarily shaped by the elements of 
nature, we now worship and are primarily shaped by the forces of economics.


The Economic Model is Flawed

The economic model is based on a flawed premise.

"When civilization [population] increases, the available labor again 
increases. In turn, luxury again increases in correspondence with the 
increasing profit, and the customs and needs of luxury increase." - Ibn 
Khaldun, 1377


It presumes, growth is the measure of success.

"Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also corresponds to a 
process of continual rapid replacement and reorganization of human 
activities facilitated by investment motivated to maximize returns. This 
exponential evolution of our self-organized life-support and cultural 
systems is remarkably creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in 
many ways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


The growth model produces a greed effect...

"Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It conjures up
images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over their gold and 
ignoring the plights and miseries of others. However, it is actually the 
gathering of resources, the more the better. Biologically, for any organism 
that is successful greed is good." - Richard F. Taflinger

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html


.. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of Success)

"The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an indicator of the 
average standard of living of individuals in that country, and economic 
growth is therefore often seen as indicating an increase in the average 
standard of living." -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.

"A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The Earth and 
its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system consists of three basic 
elements: (1) a functioning set of components, (2) a flow of energy which 
powers them, and (3) a process for the internal regulation of their 
functioning called feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium 
where system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural systems
change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human lifetime they 
appear to be static. In reality, the state of natural systems oscillates 
around a mean condition - a state known as dynamic equilibrium." (Trewartha, 
et. al., 1977). -
http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_system/natural_systems.html


It is already understood the model is flawed.

"The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy, however, for 
the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long run it tends to be a 
very good indicator (in the very long run it is greatly distorted by the 
large changes in relative prices and sectors in the economy). There is no 
other indicator in economics which is as universal or as widely accepted as 
the GDP." -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concept_and_Theories_of_Economic_Growth


Conclusion 2: Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded 
to perpetuate a myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously false. The 
deception is for profit and the fallacy a fraud!


Value Revised

If the premise of growth is flawed and the measure of economic value is 
growth, then the measure of economic value must also be flawed.

"The economic value of something is how much a desired object or condition 
is worth relative to other objects or conditions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_%28economics%29

The signs are many that the system may be in danger of collapse just as a 
building designed outside of the limits of natural law is bound to fail 
sooner than if it had been within the bounds of natural law. Massive amounts 
of resources might save the building but when something falls outside of 
natural law, its sustainability is reduced.

To determine economic value, sustainability must be included.


Final Conclusion:


The economic market place is the new savannah. Where we once may have 
worshiped the elements of nature, we now worship the forces of economics. 
Our lives are governed primarily by market forces created by economics 
currently in conflict with natural law.

The construct of economics as the new hunting ground, is completely 
artificial and a product of our making. It is not necessarily within the 
bounds of the natural law from and for which we were designed. We are not 
necessarily designed to thrive within the bounds of an artificial construct 
unless the construct falls within the bounds of natural design from which we 
came.

Our economic model should emulate that of a natural system. The correction 
is to revise the nature of economic value to include sustainability. Natural 
systems reward "Diverse Harmonic Balance".

-----
 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 28 15:27:24 EST 2008
Article: 1577393 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.culture,alt.politics.bush,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: It Was Keynes' model they implemented but they had to do it!
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:38:36 -0500
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Not oil, jews, republicans, nor even greed.

It Was Keynes' model they implemented but they had to do it!

It was the Great Depression - after WWI and just before WWII. They were 
facing a complete economic meltdown. Keynes devised an emergency economic 
model with a, "built in propensity for growth". The choices were; end 
short-term suffering and introduce an unsustainable model, or over much 
time, suffering and risk of collapse, allow the system to correct itself.

The choice was clear and took considerable bravery on the part of those who 
adapted the model since they could have only imagined what the results would 
be. They had to take the short-term strategy to ensure the system remained 
viable, knowing full well it would cause it's own long-term destruction. It 
took great faith since they knew they were unleashing a potentially deadly 
virus. They must have postulated that we would be able to devise and 
implement an exit strategy before we destroyed ourselves or the environment 
or both.


"Keynes was advocating measures in a scenario of mass unemployment and 
widespread suffering amidst the social classes of societies around the 
world. While hundreds of socialites and politicians viewed the Great 
Depression, as well as the inability to restore confidence in markets, as 
the failure of capitalism on a broad base, Keynes viewed it as a narrow 
trouble brought about by technical problems, a "magneto trouble", as he 
wrote in 1930[1]. In fact, Keynes' view was that something was needed to 
step in the breach caused by the deficiency of demand; writing that "no 
obvious case is made out for a system of State Socialism which would embrace 
most of the economic life of the community." [2] Keynes argued that much 
less intrusive government expenditure policies could ensure adequate 
effective demand, allowing the market economy to go on as before. Unlike the 
Communists who believed in a full takover of the means of production by 
government, Keynes advocated a lesser degree of state control over the means 
of production." - The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money; J.M 
Keynes (1936)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_Theory_of_Employment%2C_Interest%2C_and_Money#Overview


The good news is, it's a simple correction. Nothing needs to cease and the 
economy won't collapse but it may take some time to stabilize. The question 
becomes, is there enough time to implement the solution and allow the cure 
to take effect? At times like this I wish I were an economist, then again, 
perhaps not - that answer may be difficult to accept.

The Case for "Diverse Harmonic Balance" is made at:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.men/browse_thread/thread/508cce085a05b84a/7e812a9b703b052c#7e812a9b703b052c 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 28 15:27:24 EST 2008
Article: 1577480 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.support.divorce,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: "Diverse Harmonic Balance" - Questions Remain
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:48:53 -0500
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Keynes' model was key. That is now clear. It is clear why it was created and
implemented.

To the extent the Keynesian (growth) model is the cause of related hardship,
a Keynesian (sustainability) model will correct and eliminate that
hardship.

These questions remain. Each outstanding question is more important than the 
previous one yet each is important.:

How far back is the root cause?

Have corrections been implemented?

Which corrections?

What are the impacts of the corrections?

Timeframe to equilibrium?

Timeframe to destruction?


The last question is perhaps the most concerning. The timeframe to
destruction must be greater than the timeframe to equilibrium. If the
timeframe to equilibrium is greater than the timeframe to destruction, the
results are much less... desirable.





From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 28 15:27:24 EST 2008
Article: 1577481 of can.politics
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.economics,can.politics,soc.men,uk.media
Subject: Re: The Growth Fraud - The economic model is based on a flawed premise
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:55:42 -0500
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"Anarchore"  wrote in message 
news:13s9gcj5r2c1l45@corp.supernews.com...
> Meldon wrote:
>
>>
>> "Anarchore"  wrote in message
>> news:13s8bdvm94qut0f@corp.supernews.com...
>> > Meldon wrote:
>> >
>> > > The Growth Fraud
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The economic model is based on a flawed premise.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "When civilization [population] increases, the available labor
>> > > again increases. In turn, luxury again increases in
>> > > correspondence with the increasing profit, and the customs and
>> > > needs of luxury increase." - Ibn Khaldun, 1377
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It presumes, growth is the measure of success.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Now it is generally recognized that economic growth also
>> > > corresponds to a process of continual rapid replacement and
>> > > reorganization of human activities facilitated by investment
>> > > motivated to maximize returns. This exponential evolution of our
>> > > self-organized life-support and cultural systems is remarkably
>> > > creative and flexible, but highly unpredictable in many ways.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concep
>> > > t_an d_Theories_of_Economic_Growth
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The growth model produces a greed effect.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Greed has an extremely negative connotation for most people. It
>> > > conjures up images of Ebenezer Scrooge and Shylock, chortling over
>> > > their gold and ignoring the plights and miseries of others.
>> > > However, it is actually the gathering of resources, the more the
>> > > better.  Biologically, for any organism that is successful greed
>> > > is good." - Richard F. Taflinger
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/biology.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > .. and considers it a sign of health. (ie., Growth is a Measure of
>> > > Success)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "The real GDP per capita of an economy is often used as an
>> > > indicator of the average standard of living of individuals in
>> > > that country, and economic growth is therefore often seen as
>> > > indicating an increase in the average standard of living." -
>> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concep
>> > > t_an d_Theories_of_Economic_Growth
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It is well known natural systems do not operate this way.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > A system is defined as a collection of interacting objects. The
>> > > Earth and its atmosphere defines the Earth system. A system
>> > > consists of three basic elements: (1) a functioning set of
>> > > components, (2) a flow of energy which powers them, and (3) a
>> > > process for the internal regulation of their functioning called
>> > > feedback. Most systems tend toward a state of equilibrium where
>> > > system inputs are balanced by system outputs. Though natural
>> > > systems change over long periods of time, on the scale of a human
>> > > lifetime they appear to be static. In reality, the state of
>> > > natural systems oscillates around a mean condition - a state
>> > > known as dynamic equilibrium. (Trewartha, et.  al., 1977). -
>> > >
>> > > http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/geog101/textbook/earth_syst
>> > > em/n atural_systems.html
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > It is understood the model is already flawed.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "The flaws of GDP may be important when studying public policy,
>> > > however, for the purposes of economic growth in the "short" long
>> > > run it tends to be a very good indicator (in the very long run it
>> > > is greatly distorted by the large changes in relative prices and
>> > > sectors in the economy). There is no other indicator in economics
>> > > which is as universal or as widely accepted as the GDP." -
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_growth#Origins_of_the_Concep
>> > > t_an d_Theories_of_Economic_Growth
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Greater thinkers than I have missed the obvious or proceeded to
>> > > perpetuate a myth of "greed is good". The premise is obviously
>> > > false.  The deception is for profit and the fallacy is fraud!
>> >
>> > They think they can have infinite growth on a finite planet.  They
>> > are crazy.
>> >
>> > --
>>
>> Crazy or complicit?
>
> (Secular)Religious zealots for the most part.  Those city council types
> want nothing but more and more "growth" for their businesses, and don't
> care about the downside.
>
> -- 
>

I hope not. That would indicate a deeper root and a greater timeframe to 
equilibrium. I'm hoping a single correction to Keynes is all we need to 
address. 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 28 15:27:25 EST 2008
Article: 1578001 of can.politics
Xref: sn-us alt.politics.bush:4240108 alt.politics.economics:623147 alt.poverty:6440 alt.rush-limbaugh:1408664 can.politics:1578001 soc.men:1594778
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From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.economics,alt.poverty,alt.rush-limbaugh,can.politics,soc.men
Subject: The Cause of Hardship
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:08:03 -0500
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There is one source and one source alone responsible for the greater portion 
of corruption, greed, poverty, conflict, war, environmental destruction and 
even advancement in our modern societies. It may be surprising for most 
people to realize the true nature of their hardship as it can take so many 
forms as noted above. There is a common cause for those behaviors and it is 
our environment as any experienced biologist would attest.

While we are busily preparing for another day at the office or the factory 
and pay regard to the weather report in order to know what best to wear, we 
pay far less regard to other environmental factors which may be less natural 
but which affect our lives even more profoundly than weather.

Symptoms have often been mistaken as evidence suggesting any number of 
possible sources. Some that come to mind are UFO's, immigrants, communists, 
terrorist, jews, politicians or lawyers and while each may indeed be in 
themselves evidence of, for instance fraud, the fraud itself has a source. 
It is the same source responsible for individual hardship.

Be forewarned. The subject is far less dramatic than the wonders of the 
natural or supernatural world, is far less evil than it is disappointing and 
is the heart of what many would argue a particularly dull subject namely, 
economics. There, I said it. The secret is out!

It may be one of the last politically correct subjects left in which to 
freely exchange ideas so, for that we may give thanks especially since by 
it, our behavior and development are so profoundly influenced not only as 
individuals but as a species. Something that influentially important needs 
to be understood. Among our designed specialties is seeking to understand 
that which affects us and upon which we depend for our existence. Our 
individual lives depend on understanding and exploiting that artificial 
environment.

It should not be surprising then that most individuals seeking an 
understanding of their reality would make any number of false 
identifications in their search especially when the nature of their prey is 
so elusive and its true influence underestimated. This is why for example, 
if a man's divorce has devastating results, he may attribute his hardship to 
feminism. He unfortunately misses the point. What he does to mitigate his 
perceived effects of feminism is in vain. Even if he could eliminate that 
hardship, another would take it's place. The true nature of the source is 
economic and if he seeks effective remedy, his weapons must be that of an 
economist.

How is it possible for economics to be solely responsible for all those 
negative things? Since the economy so profoundly influences behavior and is 
the source of among others, hardship, it sets in motion eventual outcomes 
despite the multitude of possibilities that may occur in the process. The 
final outcome is a direct result of the original influence. If that 
influence encourages lies and cheating, the system will reward the best 
liars and cheaters and given enough time the system will produce more of 
them.

Our economic model is designed in a way that's very representative of a 
person on a unicycle balancing a stack of wine glasses with a broom-handle. 
There is a noticeable, forward tilt of the stack of glasses and the rider 
must continue to roll in that direction to keep the stack in equilibrium. 
Even if the rider can advance so much that he can reduce his forward roll, 
he is unable to completely stop or else risk becoming unstable himself to 
the point of collapse.

The model we have adopted is one where growth is considered the primary 
factor that leads to advancement. So in order to advance rapidly, growth is 
encouraged at every stage. This seems to contradict a natural model such as 
a cow. It can be highly productive but has completed growing. Growth here 
seems to be one of only achieving a point which allows production. Any 
excess production does not equate to the cow growing nor is growing the cow 
bigger necessarily going to result in more milk. They are only indirectly 
related.

Our economic model on the other hand treats growth as a direct measure of a 
healthy system. This is applicable only during the transition from calf to 
adult afterwhich growth is less important as a relevant indicator. Could you 
picture a farmer who called the vet everyday because his full grown cow had 
not gained any weight even though it provides a wonderful four buckets of 
milk per day? The vet rushes over and sells the farmer a magic elixir which 
may or may not cause the cow gain weight but "ensures the cow's health". The 
vet is happy, the farmer is happy and the cow wonders what the hell the fuss 
is all about? The answer for the cow is.. economics.

Given the explanation the cow understands the flurry of activity surrounding 
its alleged lack of weight gain, but in telling the farmer, the information 
is rejected. The vet sides with the farmer and the cycle continues. The cow 
lives a productive life despite not gaining weight and the economy is fed 
not only with the product of the cow but the product of the vet.

Another example of which I am thoroughly astounded when people point to yet 
another instance of it is, government spending. We think, how outrageous it 
is to see these well-heeled politicians getting kick-backs while they think 
of another excuse to spend taxpayers' money. How outrageous indeed then if 
the formula used to calculate Gross Domestic Product includes government 
expenditures. That's right! GDP is what the government seeks to grow, and in 
its calculation lays the amount the government spends. Government is 
encouraged to spend by the formula that is used to calculate GDP!

We're critical and sometimes revolted by our consumer culture with houses 
full of items we don't need and don't use or with people who have to have a 
bigger house or more and newer vehicles. How materialistic! Indeed it may be 
materialistic but the source of that behavior is not some genetic trait of 
human materialism. The source is once again the equation used to calculate 
growth since in it, is the figure used to represent consumption. That's 
right! The economic model encourages materialism.

We're all disappointed when the latest Enron goes bankrupt and thousands of 
pension holders lose their savings but the CEO's retire to Bermuda. We may 
throw things at the television and reach for the first applicable racial 
slur to hurl, but the problem is not corrupt CEO's. The problem is a corrupt 
economic model.

There are many examples of, and any environmental scientist will agree to, 
nature offering the greatest potential for understanding a complex, closed 
system model. What is created and is therefore most desirable in these 
systems is diversity in balance. When the balance tips too far, a diversity 
is corrected until balance is restored to allow more diversity.

In our system, once a town has an ice-cream store, another is encouraged to 
compete. Before you know it, there are two stores, selling the same products 
and prices are held in check until they are so low that one or both of the 
stores fail. In a natural system, there would have been only one store to 
begin with unless there was so much demand that another store was required. 
If the owners both have as many customers as they can hold, they don't care 
how many customers are going to the other store or how many other stores 
there are, hence no competition and less conditions for conflict. Conflict 
is built in to our economic model just as environmental damage is. These two 
factors are examples of processes which are not included in the basic 
economic equation.

With a US presidential election looming and candidates proclaiming they are 
the agent of change, it may be well to consider that no effective change 
will occur unless change to the economic model is taken. The change is 
relatively simple and painless but the fear of established reason to tamper 
with the unicyclist in case of collapse will prevent any consideration of 
such a radical change. Believe it or not, that's built into the system as 
well. In the example of the farmer and the vet, the vet would have no motive 
to expose the truth that the potion is a fraud since he is profiting from 
it.

That's the nature of the deception taking place that we all seem to be aware 
of but can't seem to pinpoint. When we observe and sense a politician is 
being less than truthful it is because they are, and there is little or no 
incentive for them to do otherwise. The model produces a, "don't get caught" 
principle where any activity including illegal or immoral is acceptable in 
the name of economic growth. Rather than saying, don't cheat, the model 
seems to say, cheat but don't get caught and if you get caught, that's ok 
too since it provides more economic activity.

We are, what we are, by design. Our environment shapes our behavior and our 
species. Today our environment is economic. We are a product of our economic 
model. If that model is deficient, so too will be we both as individuals and 
as a species. 




From meldon@meldon.com Thu Feb 28 15:30:33 EST 2008
Article: 1826729 of soc.culture.jewish
Xref: sn-us alt.rush-limbaugh:1408376 alt.support.divorce:622811 can.politics:1577480 soc.culture.jewish:1826729 soc.men:1594630
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-post-sjc-02!sn-post-sjc-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Meldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.support.divorce,can.politics,soc.culture.jewish,soc.men
Subject: "Diverse Harmonic Balance" - Questions Remain
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:48:53 -0500
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Keynes' model was key. That is now clear. It is clear why it was created and
implemented.

To the extent the Keynesian (growth) model is the cause of related hardship,
a Keynesian (sustainability) model will correct and eliminate that
hardship.

These questions remain. Each outstanding question is more important than the 
previous one yet each is important.:

How far back is the root cause?

Have corrections been implemented?

Which corrections?

What are the impacts of the corrections?

Timeframe to equilibrium?

Timeframe to destruction?


The last question is perhaps the most concerning. The timeframe to
destruction must be greater than the timeframe to equilibrium. If the
timeframe to equilibrium is greater than the timeframe to destruction, the
results are much less... desirable.






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