The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/e/edeiken.yale/1996/edeiken.0896


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 14 17:51:17 PDT 1996
Article: 57361 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 10 Aug 1996 14:37:07 GMT
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:

>  >         So much for Lyin' Al's research skills.

>  I was referring to a book called "Adolf Hitler"; I did not "research" this,

	Then let me amend this statement: So much for Lyin' Al's research 
methods.


 I
>  asked a friend to look up the Heiden Biography of Hitler and he came back with 
>  this. He assumed, erroneously, that the title "Der Fuehrer", had been altered
>  in translation (The Diary Of Anne Frank for example was actually published
>  in Dutch as Het Acterhuis). I have now personally located the other book. 

	Which doesn't excuse the fact that, although you you cliam some 
expertise in the period you had, apparently, never even heard of one of the basic 
texts on Hitler.  You demonstrate another typical denier failing as well.  One of your 
friends (according to your story) goofed.  Insttead of blaming him, you called 
someone who correctly pointed you to a valid source of information a nasty name.

	Where is your apology, Lyin' Al?

	--YFE	


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:29 PDT 1996
Article: 57408 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Cult and the EU
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:33:10 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 12 Aug 1996 10:47:29 GMT, pankiewicz@sun1000.pwr.wroc.pl (Jerzy
>  Pankiewicz) wrote:

>  >It's because Germans didn't record Jews gassed instantly after
>  >their arrival. As far as I remember about 90 000 non-Jewish Poles
>  >died in Auschwitz and about 1 000 000 Jews (from many countries).
>  >                        Jerzy Pankiewicz

>  	Thus the claim by the holohuggers that there were transit records and
>  at the same time being able to claim there were many shipped without
>  such records.


	****COFFEE ALERT******

	Matty poo proves. once again, his utter ignorance of a subject on 
which he pretends expertise.  He seems to think that the transit records and the 
camp registration were the same.

	Back to the books, Matty poo.  Or in your case, go there for the first 
time.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:32 PDT 1996
Article: 57409 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:39:51 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>  
>  	Unless you have access to something other than Nizkor, what we have is
>  as follows. 

	I.e. unless you have the intelligence and skill to know how to use a library.  
Matty poo evidenctly doesn't.

  
>  	If I have to state the obvious, the only way to seriously deal with
>  the picture is to 
  
>  	1)	get the negative
  
>  	2)	get the characteristics of the film
  
>  	3)	make a neutral scan at greater than the grain size.   
  
>  	Without these three it is good only for gross analysis.  

	Gee, I thought the obvious would be to find a better copy of the picture 
than is available on a computer monitor.  Maybe you could do that a library or other 
such archive.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:33 PDT 1996
Article: 57410 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Them lovely "chimneys" - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:40:54 GMT
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>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

  
>  	Intentionally making photos obscure is a common practice of the
>  Holocaust dependents. 

	Intentionally lying is a common practice of l'il tommy.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:34 PDT 1996
Article: 57422 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:17:34 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	Of course those were posted in kind when the initiated the flame.
>  That is the way it goes.  I do not initiate flames, I merely follow
>  them up.  

	Keep saying it Matty poo.  Maybe someday, somewhere you will find 
someone stupid enough to believe this lie.  Then you can retail him your fabriacation 
about the man who was repeatedly beaten with rifle butts (note plural), pistol butts 
(note plural) and pistol barrels (note plural) and showed no injuries when examined 
by a physician.  He'll beleive that too.

	--YFED


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:35 PDT 1996
Article: 57424 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: Plagarist and liar
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:06:04 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  	Amazing what you can find if you look around.  
  
>  	And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

	You're right, I was looking around the other day an I found some moron 
claiming that head lice were the vector for typhus.  Want to guess who this 
scientific illiterate was?  Want to speculate why none of the nazis he pals around 
with corrected this nonsense?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:35 PDT 1996
Article: 57428 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Benedict Giwer or Software Challenged?
Date: 15 Aug 1996 02:37:08 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) spams:

>  	Amazing what you can find if you look around.  
  
>  	And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

	Sure Matty poo, I was looking around the other day and found your 
comment that Valley Forge did not happen during the American Revolution.

	While you're explaining that, will you also explain while your nazi pals 
did not seem to notice this rather unusual claim.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:36 PDT 1996
Article: 57439 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:20:55 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	Go learn some sciences.  You will be infinitely better equipped for
>  understanding the world around you.  

	Anatomy, of course, is a science as well.  Perhaps the 
self-proclaimed scientific genius will tell us how many bones there are in the 
human cranium.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:37 PDT 1996
Article: 57440 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Adopt a Holocaust Denier Pledge Program
Date: 15 Aug 1996 04:01:56 GMT
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>   Keith Morrison  writes:

>  You can order it with the ZOG Gold Card by going to your nearest
>  ZOG Regional Office (usually disguised as a coffee shop in a strip
>  mall).

	But you can recognize it by the Moran Menorah (pat. pending) set up 
right outside the door.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:38 PDT 1996
Article: 57441 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Validity of Himmler's Posen speech, again (was Re: Extermination or, Evac...
Date: 15 Aug 1996 03:52:51 GMT
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>   ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:
>
>  
>  As a matter of fact, it would be quite easy to insert a five minute
>  segment into a three hour speech.  I assume that the speech was
>  transcribed on 78 rpm discs?  Which run for a maximum of 5 minutes a side?
>   Uh oh.  Better not tell Gord.

	Actually it was recorded on tape.  But even so, the five minute limitation 
was for commercially released 78s.  The disc technology used for recording radio 
shows was about 1/2 hour.  Commericals and station breaks were 
commonly recorded with this technology.  There is a passage in Mary Higgens 
Clark's autobiography of her days in radio when she describes the tension in the 
studio when they were getting to end of a session for, if they made a mistake, the 
whole thing would have to be redone.
  
>  But now you raise another interesting possibility.  If Himmler's remarks
>  were _transcribed_ is it possible that he was transcribed _incorrectly_?! 

	No be a good denier and, since, you have announced that a possibility 
exists, declare it to be the truth without further inquiry.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 07:49:38 PDT 1996
Article: 57465 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 15 Aug 1996 02:51:29 GMT
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4uodk1$cmu@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:
>  
>  >         Actually I meet very few outside of alt.revisionism.  You of course are
>  >  a 
>  > rather uncouth example of one.
>  
>  As your slimy friends in the goy-hating ADL believe that one American in five
>  is an anti-Semite, you must live a very sheltered life.
>  

	Gee ace reasearcher, which ADL is that.  The one here in the U.S. 
which never made that statement?  Or the one in your imagination that had 
Christine Jeffries fired from her teaching job?


 
>  >         Not only are you an uncouth anti-Semite but a rather classless one as 
>  > well.  Someone gave you accurate information.  You were too ignorant or 
>  > incompetent to follow it up and, instead, insulted that person.  Someone with 
>  > even a minimum of class would have apologized.
  
>  On the contrary I have followed it up; I'll look at this book on Saturday and
>  if it has any merit (unlike most biographies of Hitler) I will add it to
>  my bibliography.

	In other words, although you have pretended to knowledge about Hilter 
in the past, you failed to read what is considered a basic text on the man.  You 
haven't even heard of it.  You are one ace researcher.

	And, you still haven't apologized to the person you insulted for giving 
you accurate information.  A take it you learned your manners when the initials 
H.M.P. were attached to your name.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 13:37:06 PDT 1996
Article: 57529 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Christina Jeffrey Attacks Top Anti-Racists
Date: 15 Aug 1996 02:41:30 GMT
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>   "Duncan Coons" <104670.3420@compuserve.com> writes:

  
>  Lucy Dawidowicz also did a hatchet job on the curriculum, if by "hatchet job"
>  you mean criticism of left-wing politics masquerading as history, treating
>  holocaust education as an empty vessel into which the left can then pour all
>  its discontents. A few excerpts from her article on the subject: 

	The full essay can be found in the collection "What is the Use of 
Jewish History?"


>  Regarding the Jeffrey incident itself, Professor Jeffrey was actually saying
>  (if memory serves) not that Nazi views should be included in a holocaust
>  curriculum, but that, if all perspectives of are of equal significance, an
>  idiocy which is a staple in today's progressive, multiculturalist education,
>  then the views of Naziis and Klansmen logically ought to be included as well.

	Had she phrased it that way, she would have been defensible.  She did 
not.  That's what happens in politics.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 15:49:20 PDT 1996
Article: 57591 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Breakthrough on "Vergasungskeller" from Arthur Butz
Date: 13 Aug 1996 04:22:49 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:
>  Rich Graves writes:
  
>  >Butz doesn't attempt to explain why the only place you find these
>  >gas shelters is in concentration camps.
  
>  What makes you think that?

	The fact that he makes no mention of them being elsewhere.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 15 18:56:59 PDT 1996
Article: 57633 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: to the anti-gassing lurkers
Date: 15 Aug 1996 21:38:49 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	There are many of is.  

	Treanlation: Matt is seeing those pink elephants again.  This time 
they're talking to him.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 16 07:51:17 PDT 1996
Article: 57639 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Support your local antinazi-group!
Date: 15 Aug 1996 13:25:29 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) writes:

>  That's funny; the Nazis I talk to seem to exist. Somebody's sending me
>  these letters. Are they a major threat to American democracy? Probably
>  not.

	Tell that to Alan Berg.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 16 07:51:20 PDT 1996
Article: 57640 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 15 Aug 1996 13:27:16 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 13 Aug 1996 04:30:32 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	I know lots of people who have a different opinion.  They live next to 
>  >a crematorium.
  
>  	Names, addresses and phone numbers so that your claim can be 
verified.
  
  
>  	Without same, you are lying.  

	Sure.  They filed suit in Carbon County aboutthe cremarium in their 
neighborhood.  Call up Judge Lavelle and ask him about the case.  It is sceduled 
to be tried in November.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 16 07:51:21 PDT 1996
Article: 57641 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 15 Aug 1996 13:29:01 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  	
>  	Because there is no law against spreading lies.  Blacks, like Jews,
>  are permitted to spread any lies they want and to spread them as far
>  as they want.  

	And then Matty poo will tell us he isn't an anti-Semite.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 16 07:51:22 PDT 1996
Article: 57642 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 15 Aug 1996 13:32:10 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  	You blew it.  Now you are going to be called a neo-nazi for speaking
>  the truth.  State of the art crematoria were used.  You are correct,
>  there was no smell.  

	Have you been to Jim Thorpe recently.  There are a group of citizens 
there who dispute that claim.  They even have experts who say otherwise.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 16 07:51:23 PDT 1996
Article: 57673 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears interest
Date: 16 Aug 1996 02:09:43 GMT
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>   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:

>  >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
  
>  ># Yes, I read it.  It is of no value to this discussion.  
>  >#
>  ># I have already stipulated that cyanide is useful in
>  ># fumigating morgues.  

>  Cyanide is useful in fumigating morgues ? why ? it is useless against
>  anaerobic bacteriums, the main problem encountered in a morgue. It
>  could perhaps kill lice, but lice leaves the corpses soon after the
>  death. Since lice aren't very quick, a nozzle of water and they are
>  gone. If you're worried to find disinfectants for a morgue, they were
>  more cheaper, and less hazardous to use than cyanide.

	Matty poo has already explained this.  It's great stuff for killing flies.  I 
know you don't beleive me.  I know you think that not even Matty poo could 
make such a stupid statement.  But he did.  He really did.

	As Ring Lardner once said: You can look it up.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 16 13:30:43 PDT 1996
Article: 57771 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: 13 Aug 1996 13:05:20 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	And it was instantly recognized as such by my father.  Perhaps the
>  years of police work let him smell a liar from the beginning?  

	He must really have to hold his nose when he's around you.


	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:46 PDT 1996
Article: 57857 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: death estimates
Date: 15 Aug 1996 02:20:04 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
  
>  	At any time, the deaths at one camp can go down and we will know 
that
>  the estimates of the deaths at another camp will go up to compensate
>  so that the total number remains six million.  
  
>  	Most obviously this happened when half of the total of 6 vanished from
>  A-B but the total remained six.  

>  	What is amazing is that the experts "know" the total without concern
>  for the individual numbers.  

	What is amazing is the depth of your ignorance.  The experts on the 
Holocaust do not base their estimates on those murdered from the records of the 
camps.  I would like to write "But you knew that" but the tragedy is that you do 
not.

	But since you are in an mood to demonstrate your expertise about the 
KZ, why don't you explain your statement that there are no reports of dystentary 
or typhoid at the KZ?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:47 PDT 1996
Article: 57867 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Want To Censor The Department Of Justice
Date: 17 Aug 1996 01:12:24 GMT
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>   schwartz@infinet.com writes:
>  > Matt Giwer wrote:

 
>  > >         Their is a name for psychiatrists.  That name is quacks.  Not one
>  > > recorded cured by psychotherapy.  Only by drugs and brain damage from
>  > > electrical and chemical trauma.

>  Gee. In other words, you have decided in your great wisdom that medical
>  school is meaningless?
   
>  I'm sure lots of folks will be amazed.

	How can you argue about medical science with a man so learned in 
the field that revises the entire art of diagnosis by inventing a procedure to 
diagnose ulcers by puitting a tube down his father's throat.  It rather reminded me 
of the medical student who devised an appendectomy that went through the 
anus so as not to leave a scar.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:47 PDT 1996
Article: 57869 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Questions about Nizkor
Date: 17 Aug 1996 03:10:53 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   yvelinec@aol.com (Yvelinec) writes:
>  Can you tell me where the name Nizkor come from, when this project started
>  and who started it?
>  
>  Thank you for your help,
>  Yveline
>  
>>>>
	The answer to your questions can be found at the following site:

	http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:48 PDT 1996
Article: 57934 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 1996 00:58:17 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:23:20 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
>  wrote:
  

  
>  >Try sticking to something that you know, Matt.
  
>  	It appears you really do not understand the matter at all.  


	Matty poo of course understands many things.  American history is 
one of those topics that Matty poo understands better than anybody else.  For 
example, consider the way he explained to all of us that Washington;s 
encampment at CValley Forge did not occur during the American Revolution.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:48 PDT 1996
Article: 57936 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer looks under his bed for conspirators
Date: 16 Aug 1996 12:37:32 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  	Without question one director and two volunteers have agree, read
>  conspired, to violate copyright protected material.  
>  
>  	Why are these people being protected because they are holohuggers? 
 
>  
>  
>>>>
	Perhaps becasue they have violated no criminal laws?

	Perhaps because, as usual, your claims come from a bourbon bottle 
rather than a lawbook?

	Perhaps you will tell us who is protecting them?

	Perhaps, whle you're explaining your foolishness, you will tell us again 
that Turkey is in Europe?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:49 PDT 1996
Article: 57937 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: one small killing=jean moulin
Date: 17 Aug 1996 01:25:40 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  I'm not asking a frenchman, I'm asking you.

	Then do so politely.


 > And I know he was a "resistence" leader.  Does that make him 
>  eligible for beatification?  He was also a bit unstable as he tried to commit suicide 
on June 17, 1940, and 
>  finally  achieved martyrdom status  in 1943.  For your edification, I am not in favor 
of the fact that the man 
>  was executed.

	But you are willing to lie about him.  He was not "executed" he was not 
even tried.  He was tortured to death in some dungeon.   Klaus Barbie was the 
torturer.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:50 PDT 1996
Article: 57953 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 17 Aug 1996 01:51:36 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 25
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:

>  > My research indicates that the following Jew bankers rub the Federal 
Reserve 
>  > and also are the main beneficiaries of the National Debt:
>  > 
>  > Rothchild                                London & Berlin
>  > Warburg                                 Germany
>  > Lazar Bros.                            Paris
>  > Israel Moses                          Italy
>  > Loeb                                       New York
>  > Lehman Bros.                        New York
>  > Rockefeller (Chase Man.)      New York
  
>  The Rockefellers were actually of Jewish origin. According to my sources the 
>  Fed is owned by eight banks, seven of which have Jewish names. That is the 
>  operative word, names. The Rothschilds are actually Gentiles, having married 
out
>  long ago.

	Your research is, as usual, a crock of bovine feces.  You tried this 
once before and it was shot down so fast that the wheels never got off the 
ground.  It is as bad as the garbage you posted about Capone.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:50 PDT 1996
Article: 57962 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematoria == gassing
Date: 17 Aug 1996 13:13:46 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On Fri, 16 Aug 1996 21:43:55 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>  wrote:

  
>  >You can't handle basic arithmetic, yet you pretend
>  >to understand higher mathematics.

>  	We are all still awaiting you to post your first numeric analysis of
>  anything having to do with the gassing.  
  
>  	You can not or you will not because the results are against gassing.
  
 [Giwer's deliberate invasion of another person's privacy deleted]

	Matty poo demands mathmatical analyiss from another person.  Can 
he understand basic math.  When confronted with  distributions of 3-0 and 
283-5 which contradicted his silly assertions, Giwer's response was that they 
were within the normal statistical deviations.

	Judge for yourself.  Is Matty poo dishonest or just ignorant?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:51 PDT 1996
Article: 57966 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 1996 13:24:47 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 47
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 00:55:31 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	Damn fools the rest of the world, using DDT for the same purpose.  
> 
>  	Rather more odd that DDT was invented early in WW II as was not
>  produced in Germany.  Have you honestly (as is truthfully) missed
>  everything I have posted about the use of cyanide as a fumigant in
>  Germany over the months?  

	I sure have.  There are coffee stains on the monitor from reading your 
statements that Zyclon B could be used in morgues to kill flies.  It represents the 
silliest of your comments.



  
>  >Odd as well that there was no problem in WW I before the invention of 
either.
>  
>  	It is amazing that anyone would pretend that lice and rats were not a
>  problem in WW I.  Do add a little bit to your sparse education, one of
>  the old criteria for war was how long the army could hold out against
>  the diseases of close living.  

	Typhus was not a problem in WW I.  Try reading "Rats, Lice and 
History" the operative portions of which have been posted here in the past.  
There was *no* typhus whatsoever on the western front.  The typhus problem 
on the eastern front and among POW camps with prisoners from the eastern 
front.  Outbreaks were controlled by the medical science of the day; there were 
*no* typhus epidemics.  The last typhus outbreak in the U.S. was in  New 
York in 1921.  It was controlled with the use of medical knowledge of the day 
within two months.  Your claims are a chimera based, as usual, on your lack of 
education in matters medical.

  
>  	You must certainly have read of heaving dead animals over the 
castle
>  walls to start epidemics.  Or do you imagine they hit the ground and
>  splattered everyone?  


	Yes, there sure knew a lot about infectious diseases in the middle 
ages.  Please tell us what diseases are transmitted in that manner.  Go ahead, 
make an ass of yourself again.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:52 PDT 1996
Article: 57975 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ACHTUNG: "HOLOCAUST" LIES!
Date: 15 Aug 1996 20:54:22 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <4v02pv$e0t@news.enter.net>
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>   rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) writes:
>  anonymous@electra.lightlink.com writes:
>  >ACHTUNG: "HOLOCAUST" LIES! 
>  >
>  >I was born several years after WWII war ended.  I have had extensive
>  >training in past life regression, and I have given and received a great deal
>  >of such therapy.  I have spent many hours reliving and examining my last
>  >life as a high-ranking SS Officer, including my service to my Fatherland and
>  >Fuerher, my capture and extensive torture interrogation by the Americans,
>  >and my so-called "trial" at Neuremberg, with subsequent hanging as a "War
>  >Criminal."  
>  >
>  >I don't expect that my memories of my last life are admissible evidence or
>  >convincing to others, but I mention this to explain my viewpoint and one
>  >source of my attention on Revisionism.  
  
>  Um... I see. This is a new one.
  
>  >!!!! GIVE ME A BREAK !!!!
  
>  My feelings exactly.
>  
>  -rich
>   [blue-ribbon disclaimer: it's called sarcasm, son, SARCASM]
>   censor the internet! http://www.stanford.edu/~llurch/potw2/
>   boycott fadetoblack! http://www.fadetoblack.com/prquest.htm

	The unfortunate thing is that this post made much more sense than 
most of Moran's.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:53 PDT 1996
Article: 57986 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 1996 13:35:14 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 60
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 00:53:31 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	Don't change the subject Matty poo.  We are not talking about 
>  >grantuing citizneship (to which you refer) but nazi boy's proposal that people 
of 
>  >an ethnic origin of which disapproves  have their citizenship arbitrarily 
revoked.  
>  >No government that believes in basic human rights -- including and 
especially 
>  >the U.S. -- can do this.
>  
>  	He, as a citizen of his country, has every right to propose and
>  advocate anything he wishes within the laws of his country.  Other
>  than that it is unclear what you are talking about.  There is no
>  "basic human right" to live in another country.  

	Of course he can advocate any silly thing he wants.  But you are still 
trying to change the subject.  nazi boy advocates removing the citizenship of 
Danish citizens.  They are not living in "another country" but their own country. 
 nazi boy is *not* writing about illegal aliens.  By the way, legal aliens in the U.S. 
and Canada most certainly do have the basic human right to live in those 
countries.  Ask Zundel.

>  >	Again you are trying to change the subject after making an idiotic 
>  >statement.   After citizenship is granted, I most certainly do think that the 
>  >citizenship is written in stone.  So does the U.S.  A small matter of the Fifth 
>  >Amendment and ex post facto laws, Matty poo.
  
>  	Which of course can be changed.  

	Only if you wish to deprive people of basic human rights.

>  
>  	Which human right is violated?  Where do people get guns in 
Denmark?

	Gee Matty poo, is your position that depriving people of basic rights 
without due process of law is not a violation of human rights?  You are either 
dishonestly taking a position for debate only or you are a real geek.


>  Who put the concentration in the camp but you?  Or are saying they can
>  not be run in a humane manner as were the US camps in WW II?  


	nazi boy has written that the camps should be made as unpleasant as 
possible so that the Danish citizens who he has deprived of their basic rights will 
 be as uncomforatble as possible.

  
>  	It is also a pleasure to see a pretend attorney who makes an issue of
>  every pretend "human right" that Israelies will not give to
>  Palestinians.  

	Ah, the old Isreal does it, too, gambit.  Please name a Palestinian 
citizen of Israel who has been deprived of their rights.  Go ahead.  Make an ass 
of yourself.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:54 PDT 1996
Article: 58010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...
Date: 17 Aug 1996 13:42:06 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp102.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	As a citizen of his country he is proposing something to be done in
>  his country.  A country has every right to control immigrant
>  population in any manner it chooses if it is willing to risk foreign
>  intervention for being obviously unpleasant on the evening news.  

	You're changing the subject again.  nazi boy is not  trying to "control 
imigration" but his own version of racial cleansing by arbitrarily revoking the Danish 
citizenship of those of different ethnic identities.

>  	What is your problem with that?  Or do you see something universally
>  good about mixing cultures?  

	Why are you lying about what this despicable racist is advocating?

  
>  	Apparently he sees an assimilation problem.  It is a democracy.  If
>  enough see the problem they can find a way to solve it.  

	In this case by violating the basic rights of other people.  Something 
which Matty poo approves.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:54 PDT 1996
Article: 58015 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 17 Aug 1996 01:17:52 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 8
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	You are a fraud.  

	This comes from a person who claims that cynanide gas should be used 
in morgues to kill flies.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:55 PDT 1996
Article: 58018 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 1996 00:53:31 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 15 Aug 1996 21:16:25 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>  
>  >	You are incorrect.  Other than that you just prove, once again, that 
you 
>  >are an eccentric with rather abberant ideas.  I suggest you read a book or 
two 
>  >sometime.
>  
>  	As I believe I also said, certain attorneys would lie about it.  


	The first book your should start with is the dictionary.

>  	A government can not be assisted unless it chooses to be.  But you
>  know that.  Non-deputized citizens are not "assistants."  You know
>  that also.  
>
	As described by nazi boy, they were armed vigilantes.

  
>  	As for the rest, I am unaware of any country that does not have the
>  power to change any criteria for citizenship at any time.  As you know
>  the US is about ready to modify its rules, perhaps even the
>  Constitution to deal with the current problem.  

	Don't change the subject Matty poo.  We are not talking about 
grantuing citizneship (to which you refer) but nazi boy's proposal that people of 
an ethnic origin of which disapproves  have their citizenship arbitrarily revoked.  
No government that believes in basic human rights -- including and especially 
the U.S. -- can do this.


  
>  	Or do you hold there are some rules graven in stone regarding
>  citizenship?  

	Again you are trying to change the subject after making an idiotic 
statement.   After citizenship is granted, I most certainly do think that the 
citizenship is written in stone.  So does the U.S.  A small matter of the Fifth 
Amendment and ex post facto laws, Matty poo.

	But it's nice to see you attempt the philosophical justification of a 
someone who advocates such a basic violation of human rights then sending 
armed vigilantes out to round up the victims and throw them in concentration 
camps.  It always a pleasure to see vermin sticking together.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:56 PDT 1996
Article: 58039 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 18 Aug 1996 03:57:42 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4v64bm$snv@news.enter.net>
References: <4v461o$ou6@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp104.enter.net
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

	[Giwer's invasion of another's privacy snipped]

	Gee Matty poo, it's nice to know that, when in a drunken rage, can 
repeat a post you have made several times in the past.  But now prove that you 
can explain some of your past lie.  For example, why don't we start with your 
statement that there were convictions of Germans at Nuremberg for massacring 
Polish soldiers at Katyn Woods and that several defendants were hung for that 
crime.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58056 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just Another Lie from Giwer
Date: 18 Aug 1996 03:23:45 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp104.enter.net
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  An interesting fact regarding the Giwer phenomena is
>  that, if you look closely enough, you'll find an
>  outright lie in practically each and every article 
>  he writes.
 
>  It's like these existence theories in mathematics.
>  
>  Let's look at his essay 
  
>   From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
>   Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>   Subject: What was the basis for the stories about the holocaust?
>   Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 08:12:56 GMT

>  # And interesting sidebar to this is that Auschwitz had an
>  # extensive underground organization and tens of thousands of
>  # letters were sent in and out over the years.  Not one has been
>  # found that mentions gassing.  Hundreds of diaries were kept by
>  # inmates.  Not one of them mentions gassing.

>  First, it would be worthwhile to have the source for the
>  figure of "tens of thousands of letters", and "hundreds of 
>  diaries". But, moreover, while browsing in "Auschwitz: a 
>  History in Photographs", ISBN 0-253-35581-8, I found (items
>  192-5) photographs of both letters and diaries which
>  do mention the homicidal gas chambers.

	It's an obvious part of his technique, Dr. Keren.  Since Giwer is 
ignorant as to the facts of the Holocaust (as he is with most subjects on which 
he writes) he just makes up any lie that suits his purpose.  What even makes 
him look more foolish is that he endlessly repeats those lies even after they have 
been exposed as such.  Then he shifts to ad hominem attacks on those who 
expose his fabrications.  Another good example was his claim that defendants 
were found guilty at Nuremberg and hung for participation in the Katyn Forest 
massacre.  His statements were made up from whole cloth and, even after 
direct citations to the record proved he was wrong, he continued to make the 
claim.

	The odd thing is that, dispite his total inability to do reseach and 
develop factual arguments or evaluate his position based on the evidence, he 
still claims to be able to function as a "scientist" or engineer."

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58058 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 1996 00:55:31 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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Message-ID: <4v35a3$6b9@news.enter.net>
References: 
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article , Daniel Keren wrote:

>  >If Zyklon was so hard to use and dangerous, how come
>  >it was so commonly used for fumigation?

>  Because it was the only efficient remedy against lice and other vermin in
>  those days.

	Damn fools the rest of the world, using DDT for the same purpose.  
Odd as well that there was no problem in WW I before the invention of either.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:58 PDT 1996
Article: 58069 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Breakthrough on "Vergasungskeller" from Arthur Butz
Date: 18 Aug 1996 09:17:49 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4v37uo$6b9@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:
  
>  >         It is very tough to answer this.  Like many others here I am still
>  >  holding 
>  > my breath for an announcement that Lyin' Al promised to make in December or 
>  > January or February or March or sometime next year.  I only have one breath 
to 
>  > hold at a time.
  
>  
>  Which announcement was that, Yale the Wail? You may not yet be 
disappointed.

	There have been so many, Lyin' Al, that it is almost impossible to 
remember.  In the meantime keep looking for Heiden's book.  There must be at 
least one copy in England.  I live in the U.S. and took me all of fifteen minutes to 
locate a copy in your country.  Maybe we can add this to list of things we're wating 
for you to do.

	By the way: I still have not received a reference from you to support your 
latest lie about the ADL.  Remember your statement "He who asserts must prove."

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58073 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phoenicians and America
Date: 17 Aug 1996 01:36:04 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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Message-ID: <4v37m4$6b9@news.enter.net>
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>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

	Thank you for the further proof of three verities:

	1.  You are a liar

	2.  You are an anti-Semite

	3.  You are a coward.

	Should you manage to overcome that third character flaw for a 
moment, I will rpomise to use this post as one the exhibits before any impartial 
tribunal to prove the first two.

>  	What we have witnessed here is the Hebrew ego at work under the
>  guise of being witty. In the end, only wishful thinking out loud.

	Actually he did a pretty good job of pointing out that you are liar and 
an anti-Semite
  
>  	The Jews despise other peoples cultures. I have never met a Jew
>  yet who didn't just scoff if you raise a discussion about the arts and
>  attainments of other cultures.


	I have no doubt that they scoffed at you.  It is hard not to scoff at a 
lying ignoramus who publically demonstrates his pathological bigotry.

>  	They get - fidgety.

	Most people do when they are faced with the rantings of an 
obsessed anti-Semite demonstrating his inability to cope with the truth.  I 
have several times been in the presence of pyschotics like you and was 
frequently fidgety as well.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:02:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58096 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 18 Aug 1996 04:17:41 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <4v65h5$snv@news.enter.net>
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 01:17:52 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	This comes from a person who claims that cynanide gas should be used 
>  >in morgues to kill flies.
  
>  	Are you saying that flies and maggots are immune?


	No I am saying the obvious.  The only way that it would be effective 
would be if it was used continually.  This would make it impossible for the room to be 
used as morgue unless you want the morgue attendents to be working in clouds of 
cynanide gas.
  
>  	Have you found something saying that it only works on lice?  

	I have found nothing that suggests that it should be used continually in an 
environment in which people work.
  
>  	What would you suggest?  SS guards with fly swatters?  

	How about flypaper?
  
>  	Are you aware of any other insecticide at the time?  

	Flypaper works very well.
  
>  	Learn some history.

	This from a man who believes that Washington's encampment at Valley 
Forge did not occur during the American Revolution.


>  That was the age of flypaper.  You do know that
>  that is, do you not?  
	
Of course.  that would be one practical solution.  A far better one -- both 
cheaper and more practical -- than having cynanide gas continuously circulating 
around the room.  Do you know of a single morgue in the U.S. that used your 
solution?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:03:00 PDT 1996
Article: 58097 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 18 Aug 1996 04:09:05 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4v6511$snv@news.enter.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	What is also interesting is the missing demographics showing the 0-17
>  years of age fraction of the population.  1/3 is something you would
>  expect to find in third world countries.  1/4 or less is what you
>  expect to find in industrialized countries.  

	While one cannot expect a reasonable degree of rationality from Matty 
poo -- a man who once announced that distributions of 3-0 and 283-5 were within 
the limits of a normal demographic distribution -- one can expect that he can at least 
understand what demography is.  The figures referred to are not demography -- 
which concerns the study of the characteristics of populations.  There is no claim 
the vicitms of nazi murders followed demographic patterns.  What the figures refer to 
is the age distribution of the murder victims.  The question is, therefore, are there 
factors which would explain a higher rate of death overall in children.  There is 
some overlap and this type of study might be done by demographers but it is more 
likely that would be in the sphere of epidemiology.

	It would help, Matty poo, if you knew which science you were insulting 
with your ignorance.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:03:01 PDT 1996
Article: 58113 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 18 Aug 1996 14:49:03 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4v7ah0$8mg@news.enter.net>
References: <840320249snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4v2o9b$9ms@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
>             anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie "Annie Alpert" writes:
>  > 
>  > Alexander, you're not American, so perhaps you can be excused for your
>  > ignorance of the American banking system -- but the Federal Reserve is
>  > owned by all the regional banks that are members of the Federal
>  > Reserve.  This means that ultimately the stockholders of each bank are
>  > the 'owners' of the Federal Reserve.
>  
>  Not this banking bullshit again. I went to a meeting of the Christian 
>  Council for Monetary Justice

	WOW, acer researcher! What a great place to find out who is a 
stockholder in the Fed!  Forget the lawwhich establishes the Fed!  Forget 
checking with the Fed itself!  Just go to some obscure meeting in England!

	And you wonder why your "research" is a running joke?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:03:02 PDT 1996
Article: 58143 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Date: 18 Aug 1996 03:30:06 GMT
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4v0l44$esi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, Ken McVay OBC wrote:

>  >Nope.. you just advocate disenfranchising everyone you don't
>  >like, including Jews, Roma, homosexuals, and
>  >g-d-knows-who-else. Guess you're just an average fascist pig,
>  >eh?

>  Hey why would I have to kill anybody? Isn't this world big enough for
>  all of us? It is just a matter of helping every displaced person to the 
>  place in the world where he naturally belongs ethically. What is wrong
>  with that? 

	What you fail to state is that the citizens of Denmark who you wish 
to deprive of their citizenship for reasons of race and ethnicity are not 
"displaced persons."  They are citizens of Denmark.  You are not "helping 
them" for where they "naturally belong" is Denmark.  What you are advocating 
is a gross violation of basic human rights.  Sugar coat the nasty truth with any 
silly justification that you want -- it still comes down to the the same thing.  An 
open advocacy of nazi philosphy and race science.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 19 16:03:02 PDT 1996
Article: 58172 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 18 Aug 1996 03:35:00 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

  
>    after the war. The bulk of the soviet Jews, eastern polish Jews
>    were evacuated before to the German invasion according to several
>    reliable sources that I have here. 

	Which, as usual, you do not name.  Your sources for this are, at best, 
fabrications.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58320 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ACHTUNG: "HOLOCAUST" LIES!
Date: 20 Aug 1996 02:53:32 GMT
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

>  Is there a term for a post that is deliberately just plain goofy?

	Perhaps just a byline: "by Tom Moran"

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58321 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 17 Aug 1996 01:01:45 GMT
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) lies again


>    Hitler had the idea that the Jews were very dangerous and were involved
>  in a Jewish-Bolshevic conspiracy to take over the  world. The Jews were
>  considered a security problem more than a racial problem.

	Yoiu are full of that disgusting substance of which you are ususally full.

>   The idea of armed vigilante is solely yours.

	Taken from your writings, nazi boy.

> You do not seem to know the 
>  Danish law. According to the constitution it is simply illegal for citizens
>  to assemble armed and it's very difficult to obtain permission to own 
>  firearms. Furthermore having a bunch of unreliable and random organised 
>  civilians to do a job like this make no sense. I have only talked about the 
>  formation of a special police unit to handle the job. 

	Composed of "volunteers."  i.e. vigilantes.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:16 PDT 1996
Article: 58323 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 20 Aug 1996 03:27:24 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  >
>  > >   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  > 
>  >   
>  > >    after the war. The bulk of the soviet Jews, eastern polish Jews
>  > >    were evacuated before to the German invasion according to several
>  > >    reliable sources that I have here. 
>  > 
>  > 	Which, as usual, you do not name.  Your sources for this are, at best, 
>  > fabrications.

>    As usual, you take the traditionnal approach.

	You mean by asking for evidence.


> Before friday, I will
>   enumerate those sources in a list, but you will not apologized for
>   those accusations, you will simply say: those are not valid!,

	Given your usual level of research and the quality of your sources, that 
will probably be quite an accurate apparaisal.

> the
>   way you acted for the 550,000 holocaust survivors who emigrated in 
>   Palestine after WW ll. Before friday. It's a bit long to build a whole
>  text, not to convince you, but to make another faq.


	Yes,  you lied about the dates of immigration and built a phony case on 
it padding your numbers with a hand-waving statement about "illegal 
immigration."  Remember your point was not the total immigration to Isreal since 
WW II but the immigration *immediately after the war.*

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:17 PDT 1996
Article: 58335 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 20 Aug 1996 04:50:43 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4v38j8$6b9@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:
>  
>  > >   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  > 
>  > >  > My research indicates that the following Jew bankers rub the Federal 
>  > Reserve 
>  > >  > and also are the main beneficiaries of the National Debt:
>  > >  > 
>  > >  > Rothchild                                London & Berlin
>  > >  > Warburg                                 Germany
>  > >  > Lazar Bros.                            Paris
>  > >  > Israel Moses                          Italy
>  > >  > Loeb                                       New York
>  > >  > Lehman Bros.                        New York
>  > >  > Rockefeller (Chase Man.)      New York
>  >   
>  
>  You're a lying piece of filth Yale, you have forged this posting. I did 
>  not say "My research indicates that the following Jew bankers rub the Federal 
>   Reserve", furthermore I can prove this from a document that has been in the 
>  public domain since 1993 and which says precisely the opposite. 
>

	Bullshit Lyin' Al.  I cut out an attribution which was a mistake.  The 
forgery, however, is yours.  While you did not write the section quoted above you 
certainly wrote an addendum to it, to which I was clearly responding.


  
>  I've told you before, I know the way you people operate, now you have been
>  exposed for the lying, whining slime you are. 

	We know how you operate.  Why did you omit the words that were 
yours?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:17 PDT 1996
Article: 58336 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 20 Aug 1996 03:11:14 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 65
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 18 Aug 1996 04:17:41 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	No I am saying the obvious.  The only way that it would be effective 
>  >would be if it was used continually.  This would make it impossible for the room 
to be 
>  >used as morgue unless you want the morgue attendents to be working in clouds 
of 
>  >cynanide gas.

  
>  	It would be equally impossible for Sonderkommandos to be working in a
>  half hour while eating and smoking without gas masks.  

	Which seems to be an invention of the revisionazis.



  
>  	So what is your problem?  As to continually, is not that what you are
>  claiming for gassing?  If not. what is the difference?

	It most certainly not what historians of the Holocaust claim.

>  >	I have found nothing that suggests that it should be used continually in 
an 
>  >environment in which people work.
  
>  	Nor did I ask that question.  

	Then learn how to ask relevant questions.	

>  >	How about flypaper?
>  
>  	Does not attract maggots.  

	Simple law of nature, Matty poo: No flies, no maggots.  Or do you believe 
in spontaneous generation.  Learn some science Matty poo.


    
>  >>  	Are you aware of any other insecticide at the time?  
>  
>  >	Flypaper works very well.
>  
>  	On non-flying maggots?  What a fool!  

	No files, no maggots.

    
>  >>  That was the age of flypaper.  You do know that
>  >>  that is, do you not?  
>  >	
>  >Of course.  that would be one practical solution.  A far better one -- both 
>  >cheaper and more practical -- than having cynanide gas continuously circulating 
>  >around the room.  Do you know of a single morgue in the U.S. that used your 
>  >solution?
  
>  	What in the hell are you talking about, consiglieri?  

	Morgues in the United States.  You do know what a morgue is, don't 
you?  To repeat, do you know of a single morgue that is regularly flooded with 
cyanide gas to kill flies?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:18 PDT 1996
Article: 58340 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 20 Aug 1996 04:09:19 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 13:24:47 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	I sure have.  There are coffee stains on the monitor from reading your 
>  >statements that Zyclon B could be used in morgues to kill flies.  It represents 
the 
>  >silliest of your comments.
>  
>  	Yes, you are truly stupid.  It is interesting that you truly believe
>  flies and maggots are immune ot HCN.  It is also interesting you
>  appear to believe that some place you have read it works on body lice
>  only.  

	No.  It was the image of someone using it continuosly, in an 
enviroment where people are expected to work.

>  >>  	You must certainly have read of heaving dead animals over the 
>  >castle
>  >>  walls to start epidemics.  Or do you imagine they hit the ground and
>  >>  splattered everyone?  
  
>  >	Yes, there sure knew a lot about infectious diseases in the middle 
>  >ages.  Please tell us what diseases are transmitted in that manner.  Go 
ahead, 
>  >make an ass of yourself again.
  
>  	I will leave it to you who has claimed there were none.  

	Perhaps this has a meaning in English.  At last, we have found out 
where your medical knowldge comes from.  No wonder it seems it seems so 
strange to someone in the 20th century.  No, Matty poo, lice might be 
unpleasant but the only disease for which body lice are a vector is typhus.  Dead 
bodies -- whether people or horses or rats -- might be unsightly objects with a bad 
smell but, as had been known for a long, long time they do not neccessarily carry 
disease.  Your medieval friends propably had a lot fun chucking unsightly, smelly 
objects over the walls but -- unless they were lucky enough to land one in a well, 
the only effect was psychological.

	That's science, Matty poo, sorry it disagrees with you silly notions but . 
. . that's science for you.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:19 PDT 1996
Article: 58341 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 20 Aug 1996 04:17:41 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 13:35:14 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>  >	Of course he can advocate any silly thing he wants.  But you are still 
>  >trying to change the subject.  nazi boy advocates removing the citizenship of 
>  >Danish citizens.  They are not living in "another country" but their own 
country. 
>  > nazi boy is *not* writing about illegal aliens.  By the way, legal aliens in the 
U.S. 
>  >and Canada most certainly do have the basic human right to live in those 
>  >countries.  Ask Zundel.
  
>  	Excuse me but it appears you are proclaiming that a legally given
>  citizenship has to be maintained as a basic human right.  You are very
>  confused regarding human rights and legal rights.  But then, you want
>  to confuse them so you can get rocks off saying Nazi.  

	No.  You are just being an ass again.

>  >>  >	Again you are trying to change the subject after making an idiotic 
>  >>  >statement.   After citizenship is granted, I most certainly do think that the 
>  >>  >citizenship is written in stone.  So does the U.S.  A small matter of the 
Fifth 
>  >>  >Amendment and ex post facto laws, Matty poo.

  
>  >	Only if you wish to deprive people of basic human rights.
  
>  	Recite the basic human right you are talking about.

	This comes under the heading legal research, Matty poo.  You know 
my rates.  Should I answer this question?

  
>  	We can not go any further until you do.  

	Don't be more stupid than you have to be.

>  >	Gee Matty poo, is your position that depriving people of basic rights 
>  >without due process of law is not a violation of human rights?  You are either 
>  >dishonestly taking a position for debate only or you are a real geek.
  
>  	The law is changed, that is due process.  Next question.  Or do you
>  think you are an attorney or something similarly repulsive?  

	Yes Matty poo.  Do you ever know what you are talking about?

	--YFE




From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 07:25:19 PDT 1996
Article: 58357 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ashholes was Re: "Ash Gets In Your Eyes" - Giwer's New Theme Song
Date: 20 Aug 1996 03:33:48 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 17:20:23 -0400, schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>  >Matt Giwer, for instance, insists that you "cannot mourn something you
>  >never had" (or words to that effect). He has "informed" us that we have a
>  >problem because we mourn the deaths of relations we did not personally
>  >know.
  
>  	I pointed out that you are absolute idiots for doing so.  
  
>  	Do you have a problem with that?  

	Yes.  You weren't asked.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 11:58:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58476 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Date: 20 Aug 1996 02:22:09 GMT
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>   dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:
>  Gosh, what is it about this thread that conjures visions of Israelis and
>  Palestinians?

	Nothing that I can think of.  Except for the die-hard Isreal haters and 
anti-Semites (not necessarily the same group).  But perhaps you can enlighten 
me.  When has a Palestinian citizen of Isreal been arbitrarily deprived on his 
citizenship?  Please be specific.

	--YFE



From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 14:52:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58497 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 20 Aug 1996 03:58:17 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 22:29:12 -0400, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P.
>  Stein) wrote:
>  
>  >In article <4uufn3$3el@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>,
>  >Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>  >>	Want to address the gelatinous masses of flesh and clothing that HCN
>  >>causes in your reality?  
>  
>  >    Want to address the fact that no witness ever said this, confessed
>  >liar?

>  	Are you saying Nizkor spreads false stories without foundation in
>  addition to Bernard Naumann making up things like thing?  

	No he is saying that you distorted a quote giving it a meaning not 
found in the origianl.  In short, you were being dishonest.  Again.


  
>  	Are you suggesting the original source was not a witness?  

	No he is suggesting that your reading comprehesion is nil  That you 
distorted the testimony out of all recoginition.  In short, that you were being 
dishonest.  Again.

  
>  	Who do you suggest fabricated this account?    

	You.  That is because you distorted the quotation to give it a new 
meaning.  In short, you were being dishoest.  Again.

  
>  	Why is it you only question the stories that are so absurd that even
>  you can see it?  

	What is absurd is they way you distort a quote to give it a meaning 
that the author never intended.  In short, you are being dishonest.  Again.

	But lying is all you can do, isn't it.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 22:43:08 PDT 1996
Article: 58581 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 20 Aug 1996 03:48:53 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4v33v2$6b9@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:
>  > >  The one that had files on 800 American organisations (including 
Greenpeace)
>  > >  and 12,00 individuals. The one that smears 1 in 5 Americans as
>  >  "anti-Semitic".
 
>  >         Sure.  In your imagination.  Provide us a citation Lyin' Al.
>  
>  Guardian, May 8 & May 10, 1993.

	The ADL made no statement to the Guardian.

> This was reported extensively.

	Not in the New York Times.  I checked them for May 1-15, 1993, and 
there is no such statement from the ADL.

> Re the smear
>  on 1 in 5 Americans, check out Nathaniel Weyl's 1968 book THE JEW IN 
AMERICAN
>  POLITICS

	He is not a spokeman for the ADL.

> and the 1993 ADL report (widely quoted in the US press).

	I have the ADL reports for 1993.  They contain no such statement.


>  > >  >         And, you still haven't apologized to the person you insulted for
>  >  giving > 
>  > you accurate information.  A take it you learned your manners when the 
initials
>  >  > 
>  > H.M.P. were attached to your name.
  
>  Sure, see you at the trial, Yale. 

	You've been arrested again?  Is there a three strikes law in England?

	---YFE	


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 22:43:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58590 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: When the Nazis return to Denmark...
Date: 20 Aug 1996 04:45:42 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 17 Aug 1996 13:42:06 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

  
>  >	Why are you lying about what this despicable racist is advocating?

>  >>  	Apparently he sees an assimilation problem.  It is a democracy.  If
>  >>  enough see the problem they can find a way to solve it.  
  
>  >	In this case by violating the basic rights of other people.  Something 
>  >which Matty poo approves.
  
>  	What BASIC RIGHTS pretend shyster?  

	If you do not know Matty poo, I feel sorry for you.

	You are really beyond help.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 20 23:11:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58606 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionist Breakthrough on "Vergasungskeller" from Arthur Butz
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:54:59 GMT
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4v6n3t$5ai@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:


  >         By the way: I still have not received a reference from you to support
>  >  your 
>  > latest lie about the ADL.  Remember your statement "He who asserts must 
prove."
  
>  I thought I'd posted about that. One august body that doesn't think much of
>  the ADL is the US Commission on Human Rights. Check out Wilcox.

	No.  You have never posted a statement from the ADL that states that 
20% of U.S. citizens are anti-Semites.  You  have wiggled and dodged and lied.  I 
have no intention of checking out Wilcox.  That is called hearsay.

	What is the statement of the ADL, Lyin' Al?  Where can anybody 
check it out for themselves?

	Your fetid imagination does not count, ace researcher.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 07:06:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58617 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: 20 Aug 1996 04:40:24 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 42
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>   joebuck@ix.netcom.com(Charles) writes:

>    Funny thing is, I've read numerous defenses of the "neo-nazi" slander
>  frequently slung at THE SPOTLIGHT -- typically by those who Pat
>  Buchanan's characterized as Israel's "amen corner" in the U.S. -- from
>  people who are liberal, leftist, "moderate" as well as from folks who
>  are essentially non-political.

	Please tell me whether Robert Bork, who characterized the whole Carto 
complex as "anti-Semitic"  was:

	(a) a liberal

	(b) a leftist

	(c) a "moderate"


>    (See Sobran's fascinating and enlightening article "In Our Time" in
>  this regard. It's been posted online several times in recent months.)

	See as well the excellent article on Sobran by William F. Buckley who 
characterized his old friend as anti-Semitic.  Is Mr. Buckley:

	(a) a liberal

	(b) a leftist

	(c) a "moderate"

>    "Don't like the idea of an essentially-bankrupt U.S. Treasury giving
>  hugely wealthy Hollywood director Spielberg a million bucks 'cause
>  there are American kids who could use that money for new computers or
>  summer jobs?," say the American apologists for Israel. Their answer
>  appears to be, "JUST SHADDUP AND PAY!" 


	The current budget includes expenditures of over $100,000,000.00 for 
military brass bands, golf courses, health clubs and movie theaters. Care to 
speculate on how that money could be better spent?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 07:06:58 PDT 1996
Article: 58675 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 21 Aug 1996 02:22:38 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 34
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>
>  
>  The passage below is from my pamphlet of the same name; it has Rabbinic
>  approval and has been in the public domain since the summer of 1993.

	Another example of how Lyin' Al misrepresents.  One of the people who 
gave "rabbinic" approval was a child molester who had his authority to act as a 
Rabbi revoked.  The other is apparently a public relations specialist for a minor 
Chassidic sect who has never bothered to register as a Rabbi, as is traditional, with 
the Office of the Cheif Rabbi of Great Britain.  The authority of a rabbi to approve 
anything depends on his reputation in the Jewish community.  Lyin' Al's buddies 
have none.


> It has
>  also been posted in full to this newsgroup twice. It is reposted here as
>  further proof - as if further proof were needed - that a clique of Jews in
>  this newsgroup led by Yale Edeiken and Harry Mazal have persistently sought
>  to smear me by claiming that I believe the Jews control the economy or even
>  the world. The point about my quote above - whether the facts are right or
>  wrong - is that only the names of the banks are Jewish. In other words, I have
>  said exactly the opposite of what they claim. But for Organised Jewry and its
>  lapdogs this is nothing new.


	The idiocy is your continual statement that *those* banks "own" the 
Federal Reserve.  They do not.  This is an easily ascertainable fact, ace 
researcher.  It should take a 12 year old of average intelligence to ascertain that 
it is not true that banks you name "own" the Federal Reserve.  Why have you not 
bothered to do so?  


	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 07:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58680 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 21 Aug 1996 13:00:24 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
 
>   If you lived within Danish jurisdiction I could easily sue you for libel 
>  because you are calling me a nazi.

	You mean truth is not a defense in Danish courts?


> I have never advocated dictatorship,
>  military expansion etc. so I do not qualify as a nazi. Futhermore Hitler
>  said several times that national socialism knows only Germany and is 
>  not meant for export. Nazism is krautstuff. Are you unable to understand
>  that?


	I understand that you are, philospohically, a nazi and advocate a 
political program concerning people with different ethnic backgrouds identical to 
that of nazi rhetoric.  Further you are a convinced believer in nazi race science.

  
>   However, I am against the immigration from the third world and multi-ethnic 
>  society. Not so many years ago marriage between people of different races 
>  were forbidden in several states in the USA, and there was racial 
>  segregation. Were those Americans that supported and wanted this kind of 
>  legislation against the American constitution and in favour of dictatorship? 
>  Were they "nazis"?

	Yes, many were.


> A lot of American racist Southerners fought eagerly 
>  against the Germans in WW2. Have you ever heard of any incidents of 
>  Americans refusing to fight against Germany in WW2 of ideological reasons?


	Yes. 

>  And what about all the many White South Africans who fought against Nazi-
>  Germany? As soon as they came home from that war against German nazism
>  South Africa began to introduce apartheid.

	Actually a large segment of South Africa white population were ardent 
nazi sympathizers.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 07:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 58686 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 21 Aug 1996 13:15:35 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

>  >>   Furthermore having a bunch of unreliable and random organised 
>  >>  civilians to do a job like this make no sense. I have only talked about the 
>  >>  formation of a special police unit to handle the job. 
>  >
>  >       Composed of "volunteers."  i.e. vigilantes.
>  >
>  Yes composed of voluntary policemen. How can policemen performing 
policework
>  be regarded as vigilantes? The reason for making the participation in this 
>  work voluntarily is that some policemen may be against it of political or
>  other reasons. 

	It is not "police work" and, you have also suggested that those 
forces by augmented by volunteers.  I.e. vigilantes.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 09:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58706 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Date: 21 Aug 1996 04:10:16 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) wrote:
  
>  >Yeah, isn't that free speech thing annoying? If you say something stupid
>  >and wrong, then people have the right to point out that it's stupid and
>  >wrong. There oughta be a law against that, right?
  
>  Your point was that revisionism had basically already been given "a fair
>  hearing" in the public arena and had been rejected by the people.

	And he made it very well.
  
>  In an attempt to prove your position you cited the fact that Z-grams are
>  "allowed" to be read ("gee, thanks guys") and that the IHR publishes
>  books, along with mentioning a handful of interviews given on prime time. 

	What more do you want?  People to be forced to listen to your 
silliness at gunpoint?

>  As if those constituted -equal- airtime with that given the holohoax.

	You have not asked for "equal time" you have asked for a "fair 
hearing."  Your ideas have received such a hearing and been rejected.  You 
failed to persuade.

>  As if those constituted a "fair hearing" considering that the Holohoax is
>  constantly drummed into the heads of the public through movies, TV, news,
>  and academia -- while the media and academia deliberately censor any facts
>  against it. Even the government uses public money to propagate and
>  inculcate the Holocaust Lie.

	It's called the marketplace of ideas.  Your case has failed to impress 
anyone with knowledge and common sense.  It's position in the market place of 
ideas has been relgated to the fringe with creationists, flat earthers, and the type 
who believe that the Bavarian Illuminati plotted the Kennedy assassination.  
One of the reasons you have been so relegated -- other than the paucity of your 
arguments -- is the blatent bigotry in which they are couched. 

  
>  And yet you claim revisionism has been given a fair hearing, Rich?

	Yup.  He certainly did.
  

  
>  I pointed out that revisionism -hasn't- had a fair hearing because jewish
>  money-power has succeeded in marginalizing revisionism and excluding it
>  from the marketplace of ideas, except on the internet -- so far.  


	What has succeeded in marginalizing Holocaust denial are patent 
idiocy of its arguments, the dishonesty of its presentation and the open bigotry 
such as that which you display.

  
>  Nothing you can say will change the fact that the Holohugger camp has
>  unclean hands:  -Holohuggers- silence free speech, not revisionists. 
>  -Holohuggers- pass Orwellian "thoughtcrime" laws -- not revisionists. 
>  -Hollohuggers- use jewish money power to harrass, terrorize, boycott, and
>  silence dissenters.

	That's a load of crap.  The denier lobby has as very little interest in 
free speech other than their own..  Willis Carto, the godfather of deniers, 
attempted to shut up his opponents which continuous frivolous lawsuits.  Austin 
App was an open advocate of censorship of ideas in which he did not believe.  
Zundel has called for the banning of "Schindler's List."  Around here we have 
Matt Giwer who has attempted to censor Nizkor with exrtion, lies, threatened 
lawsuits, death threats, and threats of illegal action.

  
>  Some of the holohugger tactics may be putatively legal, but the effect on
>  chilling free speech is still the same: they still prohibit free speech in
>  a purportedly free society.  It doesn't matter if there is a law against
>  free speech or not if one cannot speak out against the Holocaust guilt
>  swindle, or even so much as -question- its factual validity, without
>  losing his or her job like Christina Jeffries did.

	Cristina Jeffries neither questioned the Holocaust.  Furthermore she 
was *not* fired from here teaching position.  Get your facts straight.

>  >It was not canceled because of jewish money-power. It was canceled
>  because
>  >the staff at St. Martin's, which I've seen cited as a third- or
>  >fourth-tier publisher for tell-all books about the OJ trial and the
>  >Unabomber, decided in an open staff meeting that Irving's book did not
>  >qualify as "nonfiction." And so Irving published it through the IHR.
>  >Anyone who wants it can buy it. I believe several readers of this group
>  >have purchased copies.
  
>  The jewish ADL began a campaign of terrorism against St. Martins'
>  staffers, including several death threats. Then St. Martin's chairman
>  Thomas McCormack announced that the book ahd been canelled despite 
the
>  fact that they had a contract with Irving.  McCormack apologized to the
>  jewish community and said it was all a mistake. Several jews also
>  threatened to wage economic terrorism against St. Martin's.  _Time_
>  Magazine, April 15, 1996.  

	You seem to overlook the fact that the book was not pulled by 
Thomas McCormack.  The decision not to publish the book was made by a 
vote of the senior staff.  The vote was overwhelming; less than 10% voted to 
publish the book.


	[the rest of this tiresome, anti-Semitic garbage snipped.  Nausea has 
set in]


	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 09:27:14 PDT 1996
Article: 58719 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Date: 20 Aug 1996 02:27:49 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  There was no need to transport the jews at cost to kill them elsewhere if
>  they could have been killed nearby.  

	On what basis do you state that the transportation "cost" the nazi 
government.  As a matter of fact, the transportees were charged normal train 
fares which was taken from confiscated Jewish property.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 11:38:43 PDT 1996
Article: 58738 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:17:05 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	Whois Ken McVay?


	The real question is "whois Matt Giwer?"  There is ample evidence that 
he is a visitor from another dimension.  In his dimension Washington's 
encampment at Valley Forge did not happen during the American Revolution.

	He is either a visitor from another dimension.

	Or an outright fraud.

	I vote for the simple solution.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 12:57:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58742 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen/Einsatzkommandos
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:12:26 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  >"Photos
  
>  	Photos with a logged chain of custody as in any trial are admissable.
>  There are none.

	No "chain of custody" is required for the admission of photographs.

  
>  >"Diaries
>  
>  	When the person who created them testifies as to their veracity or
>  they refer to sufficient corraborating physical evidence.  

	The Federal Rules of Evidence do not require "corroborating physical 
evidence" or, for that matter testimony by the person who created them.


>  >"Sworn testimony
>  
>  	When in fact the person personally appears and swears and is
>  crossexamined rather than the usual IMT typed material of an unsigned,
>  unknown person.

	All witnesses at the IMT were cross-eamined.

  
>  >"Corroborated testimony
  
>  	If they corroborate the details in most all respects under
>  crossexamination without collusion meaning that the witnesses never
>  met prior to the testimony.  

	Utter nonsense.

  
>  >"Official reports, written or oral
  
>  	Only when they can be rigorously traced back to the originator and
>  then only if they support physical evidence.  

	Under the Federal Rules of Evidence official documents are 
admissible per se as an exception to the hearsay rule.  The caveat that "only if 
they support physical evidence" is a figment of your imagination.

  
>  >"Forensic studies."
  
>  	Forensic studies meaning finding the remains of the dead to prove
>  there was a crime in the first place and then showing they were
>  gassed.  

	No.  "Forensic studies" mean evidence prepared by an investigator 
for trial.
  
>  >So what's left?
  
>  	All of the above if you can find any.  

	You are correct.  All of the above is left.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 16:05:30 PDT 1996
Article: 58767 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 21 Aug 1996 13:14:00 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4v0439$e0t@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>  >       None of this changes the basic point, your nazi friend advocated 
>  >rounding up Danish citizens with a heritage that meets with his disapproval 
and 
>  >throwing them into concentration camps.  
  
>   I will just cancel their citizenship and then treat them as illegal aliens, 
>  that is all. The ideal would be to have them deported as quickly as possible 
>  from those transitcamps

	Which is a clear violation of their rights.


>  
>  This is an outright lie. I have never advocated the use of vigilantes. 
>  Prove it or shut up.

	That is your program, nmazi boy.  I'm just reading what you wrote.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 17:13:04 PDT 1996
Article: 58807 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:26:35 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4vdokb$o39@news.enter.net>
References: <4vbevm$gsr@access5.digex.net>
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:

>      Get off your fat lazy ass and into a library.
  
>      How did you ever learn anything before there was a Web?

	Can you post any evidence that Matty poo has learned anything 
*since* the Web came into existence?

	Remember Matty poo is the person who thinks that head lice transmit 
typhus.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 18:48:31 PDT 1996
Article: 58815 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I am still waiting
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:42:54 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vdpiu$o39@news.enter.net>
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	BTW:  I will be lodging a formal complaint in BC on conspiracy to
>  violate copyright and violation fo copyright before the end of the
>  month.  
  
>  	Just a few more facts to get in place.  

	You have, of course, *physical evidence* to present to the court?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 19:18:09 PDT 1996
Article: 58828 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter?  Again? WAS [Fwd: Nazi gas chambers]
Date: 21 Aug 1996 02:43:01 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4vdt3l$o39@news.enter.net>
References: <4vdokq$g32@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	Whois Ken McVay?

	The real question: "Whois Matt Giwer?"

	Well, for one thing he demonstrated his comprehensive knowledge of 
the Holocaust when he opined that Raoul Wallenberg was a major contributor to 
the US Holocaust Museum in Washington.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 20:35:56 PDT 1996
Article: 58840 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HItler and Stalin
Date: 21 Aug 1996 02:31:10 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4vdsde$o39@news.enter.net>
References: <321A7664.1802@haven.ios.com>
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>   Alexander Kimel  writes:

>  There is one question that really disturbs me.  All major Holocaust
>  perpetrators: Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich, Goebbels and Eichman,
>  were born and raised as Catholics.  In addition Stalin, another mass
>  murderer, was a dropout from a priestly seminar.
  
>  Was this a coincedence, a statistical aberration or a symptom of a
>  malaise?

	Neither.  First your list does not include "all major Holocaust 
perpetrators."  You seem to have left out -- as a start -- Goering, Bormann, Frank, 
Streicher and Rosenberg (all were sentenced to death).  Second,  do you have 
reference indicating Stalin was a Catholic?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 21 20:35:57 PDT 1996
Article: 58841 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Date: 21 Aug 1996 02:32:52 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 9
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  history is written by the victors.

	There are no German historians?

	Pull the other one.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 06:45:07 PDT 1996
Article: 58871 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: to summarize
Date: 22 Aug 1996 03:20:05 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <3218FF58.966@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison   wrote:
>  >william c anderson wrote:

>  >> : With claims such as the following?
>  >> :
>  >> : 1) Belsen camp was really in Poland, not in Germany.
>  >> :
>  >> : 2) Documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
>  >> :    in the Birkenau crematoriums don't count, as they were
>  >> :    really due to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS-men who
>  >> :    authored them.
>  >> :
>  >> : These are your claims.

>  >> : Do you doubt that a rational person reading such claims
>  >> : will conclude that you are mentally retarded?

>  >> Add these:
 
>  >> 3) Recording tape was invented in the fifties.
 
>  >> 4) Nobody ever used the term "United Nations" before 1945.
 
>  >> Everybody, now--add your favorite Giwerisms!

>  >5) The human skull has one bone...and then give a reference that
>  >   says it doesn't.
  
>  6) "After a few minutes there was silence" really means "the screaming
>  went on for tens of minutes."
  
>  7) A device that crushes something knows the maximum allowable particle
>  size and will adjust its crushing to produce particles ranging from .5
>  that size to the maximum allowable size.
  
>  8) The per-gram calorie value of fat cells with all water removed is equal
>  to the per-gram calorie value of fat cells still containing their water.
>  In other words, water burns.
  
>  9) Atmospheric nitrogen burns.
  
>  10) Bones are made of calcium oxide, and do not contain phosphorus.
  
>  11) Testimony is not evidence.
  
>  12) Trademarks and copyright are the same thing.
  
>  13) Einstein introduced the concept of orders of infinity.

	Some many lies to chose from.  My current favorites are:

	1.  Washington's encampment at Valley Forge did not happen during the American 
Revolution.  (He even refferrd to me as a "jerkoff Jew" for believing that it did.)

	2.  Head lice are the vector for typhus.

	3.  Ulcers are diagnosed by running a tube down the patient's throat.

	4.  Distributions of 3-0 and 283-5 are within the limits of a normal statistical distribution.

	5.  The KZ were well run becasue there are no reports of dystentary or typhoid.

	The latest one, that Himmler did not make the speeches of Himmler is rising quickly on the 
charts.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 06:45:08 PDT 1996
Article: 58875 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:31:26 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4vdote$o39@news.enter.net>
References: 
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4v4hqi$gte@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>  >       Of course he can advocate any silly thing he wants.  But you are still 
>  >trying to change the subject.  nazi boy advocates removing the citizenship of 
>  >Danish citizens.  
  
>   But only from "Danish" citizens that are not ethnic Danes or are not 
>  ethnically a culturally a part of Europe (that is Non-Whites)


	They are and remain citizens of Denmark.  They have a basic human 
right to that citizenship.  Your proposal is absolutely consistent with nazi "race 
science." 
  
>  >       Gee Matty poo, is your position that depriving people of basic rights 
>  >without due process of law is not a violation of human rights?  You are either 
>  >dishonestly taking a position for debate only or you are a real geek.
>  
>   No people will have their citizenship cancelled or be deported before a legal
>  foundation is created.

	There is no "legal" foundation for the arbitrary revocation of citizenship 
on grounds of "race" or "ethnicity."  The last people to have believed that were 
called "nazis."  You are one.

>  >       nazi boy has written that the camps should be made as unpleasant as 
>  >possible so that the Danish citizens who he has deprived of their basic rights 
will 
>  > be as uncomforatble as possible.
 
>  Nonsens. However, these camps are supposed to inspire it's inmates to leave
>  the country as quick as possible. Therefore they should of course not be too 
>  attractive.

	In other words you intend to force these people to leave their own 
country.  How is this different from nazi policy?

	Your own words are onvicting you, nazi boy.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 09:19:17 PDT 1996
Article: 58901 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toronto, Canada, Funds Terrorist Organizations
Date: 22 Aug 1996 03:21:57 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4vgjol$esg@news.enter.net>
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) wrote:

>  >>Why did jews in the Spanish inquisition "pretend" to be christians?  

>  >Which Jews were these?
  
>  they were called "maranos." 

	Nope "maranos" were Jews who converted to Christianity.

	Go back to ghost-writing for l'il tommy.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 09:19:18 PDT 1996
Article: 58902 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Economics of Gassing
Date: 22 Aug 1996 03:29:46 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4vgk7a$esg@news.enter.net>
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	It has been said that the reason for shipping Jews to camps with gas
>  chambers was because of the cost of ammunition. 

	Other than you an l'il tommy who has made this claim?
  
>  	Amusing but let us look at the economics of this claim.

	Before you "look at the economics" why don't you look at the facts.  
Your entire analysis is based on the proposition that the nazis paid for the tranport.  
They did not.  Jews were charged the standard rates for passengers and the costs 
paid from confiscated Jewish property or the country from which the murder victims 
were kidnapped.  The SS gave the French government a bill for their services.  
Since the railroads and the SS were making a profit on the deal, the economic 
incentive was to continue doing so.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 09:19:19 PDT 1996
Article: 58903 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 03:41:11 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4vgksn$esg@news.enter.net>
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  Every other media boss besides Ted Turner -is- jewish.
  
>  The jews have a monopoly on the media.
  
>  Citing the exception only affirms this rule.

	Well that explains how I missed Ted Turner's bris.  Can I still be miffed 
that Rupert Murdoch did not invite me to his Bar Mitzvah?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 09:19:20 PDT 1996
Article: 58905 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 21 Aug 1996 23:34:53 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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References: <840544615snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4vbcj5$6de@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:
>  
>  > >  >         Sure.  In your imagination.  Provide us a citation Lyin' Al.
>  > >  
>  > >  Guardian, May 8 & May 10, 1993.
>  > 
>  >         The ADL made no statement to the Guardian.
>  > 
>  > > This was reported extensively.
>  
>  This refers to the FBI spy case.

	Then it does not refer to a statement by the ADL claiming that 20% of 
Americans are anti-Semites.  Why did you bother to cite it, Lyin' Al? 


>  > 
>  >         Not in the New York Times.  I checked them for May 1-15, 1993, and 
>  > there is no such statement from the ADL.
  
>  Then try 1 in 5 Americans Anti-Semitic, Survey Finds, from the Tulsa World, 
>  November 17, 1992.         

	The Tulsa Worls is hardly the New York Times, Lyin' Al.  Now that you 
have found the obscure newstory please give us a quotation from the ALD making 
the statement you claim they made.
>  
>  Check out too Palestine Solidarity articles, November-December 1992:
>  AIPAC's Secret Files and others.

	None of which are a statement from the ADL.

  
>  Not "the ADL report" the reports on the ADL. Don't tell me you've missed this
>  scandal?

	Do they contain a quote from the ADL?

>  How do you know what I write in private mail?

	You made it in public.

>  
>  >         You've been arrested again?  Is there a three strikes law in England?
  
>  Actually Yale, an arrest means nothing. A conviction, maybe. Mike Stein has
>  a copy of the pamphlet I was arrested in connection with. 

	You ahve still provided no statement from the ADL to support your claim. 
 Were you just making it up?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 11:43:03 PDT 1996
Article: 58931 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 22 Aug 1996 03:01:54 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4vgij2$esg@news.enter.net>
References: <321B1DF4.60F8@gryn.org>
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>   Alec Grynspan  writes:
>  Matt Giwer wrote:

>  >         I am simply curious what it is all about.  After yesterday's mail
>  > bombing from gryn.org, owned by the only person here who talks about
>  > his Mossad connections, it has become a very interesting subject.

>  No mailbomb was sent, matt. you're totally delusional.

	You don't know how delusional the poor boy is getting.  Recently Matty 
poo sent me some e-mail for reasons known only to him.  It was the fourth time 
Matty poo has done so (again, for reasons known only to him).  When I wrote 
Matty poo asking that he not do so, Matty poo fired back that it was a forgery put 
out by those evil conspirators at your posting site (I checked the header, it was 
>from  Matty poo).

	You're treading on dangerous ground.  Matty poo might strain his back 
looking for you under his bed.  Then he'll threaten to sue you and you will get an 
ulcer and some quack will put a tube down your throat to diagnose it.  I suggest 
you accomodate his delusions and stop being.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 13:45:15 PDT 1996
Article: 58945 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 22 Aug 1996 02:32:19 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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References: <4veimi$jtm@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	It appears that some people are trying to claim that this tape which
>  came out of the middle of nowhere, which HAS NOT been identified as
>  being even Himmler

	The National Archives which hs the original says differently, of 
course.  But what do they know.


> (as it was first presented here but that may of
>  course change quickly as it often does) yet all of the discussion is
>  over a translation of what is at best a draft version of a speech by
>  some suspected but unknown person.  

	No it's a tape of the actual speech.  Nobady but you, a person who 
does not speak German and has never heard the tape, doubts its authentixity.  
Your grounds for so doing -- it is evidence which contradicts your prejudice.  A 
good scientist looks at evidence and then forms conclusions.  You do not.  
Ergo . . . . .

  
>  	An unknown person made a recording.  

	Himmler is hardly unknown. 

  
>  	That is exactly all we have on the matter.  All this crap about
>  ausrottung is quite a laugh when we have no solid knowledge of who
>  recorded it or if it was ever delivered.  

	Wrong again.  You're getting very desperate.


	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 15:42:12 PDT 1996
Article: 58951 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: here it is again, what is kmcvay?
Date: 22 Aug 1996 02:20:29 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4vgg5d$esg@news.enter.net>
References: <4veriu$o2d@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp156.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
 
 	
>  	But the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  Remember that.  Mutual
>  enemies make strange bedfellows.  It has in this case at least.  
  
>  	Bomb again and make it even more obvious that this connection has to
>  be punished in a very kinky manner.  

	Promises.  Promises.

	Hope you and your "strange bedfellow" are happy together.  Please 
register your patterns at whips-R-us.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 18:00:51 PDT 1996
Article: 58962 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news1.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!pacbell.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sgi.com!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust revisionism
Date: 21 Aug 1996 01:39:06 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <4vdpbq$o39@news.enter.net>
References: <4vbvkf$ksq@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp33.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 20 Aug 1996 03:58:17 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	No he is saying that you distorted a quote giving it a meaning not 
>  >found in the origianl.  In short, you were being dishonest.  Again.
  
>  	And in long, I posted it in its entirety as on Nizkor and you can not
>  deal with it.  

	You most certainly did not.

    
>  >	No he is suggesting that your reading comprehesion is nil  That you 
>  >distorted the testimony out of all recoginition.  In short, that you were being 
>  >dishonest.  Again.
  
>  	As you claim you can read, explain it.  Go get the original from
>  Nizkor and demonstrate otherwise.  


	I did.  You were lying.  Again.
    
>  >	You.  That is because you distorted the quotation to give it a new 
>  >meaning.  In short, you were being dishoest.  Again.
  
>  	Sorry, but it is direct from Nizkor.  Demonstrate otherwise.  

	In edited form.
   
>  >	What is absurd is they way you distort a quote to give it a meaning 
>  >that the author never intended.  In short, you are being dishonest.  Again.
>  
>  >	But lying is all you can do, isn't it.
  
>  	The only liar here is here is the one who claims to be an attorney and
>  who was going to make a phone call to report me to the authorities.  

	Been there.  Done that.  A complaint about your criminal activities ahs 
been made.


>  	Whois Ken McVay?


	The real question is "Whois Matt Giwer?"  For one thing he is a a person 
who altered a quote from Huey Long to make a point.

	`We usually call people like that liars.

	Maty poo certainly qualifies.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 18:00:52 PDT 1996
Article: 58980 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Which Jew bankers run the Fed. Res.?
Date: 21 Aug 1996 23:47:33 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4vg76l$cnt@news.enter.net>
References: <4vfdcb$6qg@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp21.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  That's like saying nobody -has- to watch TV while the jews own nearly
>  every media company in existence.  What other channels can you turn to?
  
>  Duh.
  
>  It's called a monopoly.  In a monopoly situation, one -has- to buy from
>  the monopoly holder.  Jews have a media monopoly.  Ergo one -has- to "buy"
>  from jews

	I feel left out.  I wasn't invited to Ted Turner's bris or Rupert Murdoch's 
bar mitzvah.  Maybe I should nmake sure my ZOG dues are paid up.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 22 22:14:45 PDT 1996
Article: 59011 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger Tactic #1: "Label him a nazi."
Date: 23 Aug 1996 00:58:12 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4vivn4$26u@news.enter.net>
References: <4vg7i7$gds@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp22.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  anyone who criticizes jews or questions the holocaust is labelled a nazi. 
>  Am I a nazi under -that- definition?
  
>  well...

	No.  Just the garden variety Jew hater.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 06:27:11 PDT 1996
Article: 59029 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Date: 23 Aug 1996 03:11:08 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4vj7gc$4bt@news.enter.net>
References: <4vimic$e5l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>
>  >yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>  >>	On what basis do you state that the transportation "cost" the nazi
>  
>  >>government.  As a matter of fact, the transportees were charged normal
>  train 
>  >>fares which was taken from confiscated Jewish property.

>  Mike I've already addressed this.  It is absurd to claim that nazis who
>  were supposedly trying to exterminate jews would pay for a needless
>  camp/train transportation system

>  Aren't you paying attention?

	Apparently the one not paying attention goes under an alias referrring 
to a stone pillar.  You have been told that the nazis did not pay for the system.

	You have not addressed the point.

	You have just repeated your absurd statements.

	Go back to ghosting l'il tommy's stuff.  You are just embarrassing 
yourself.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 11:37:56 PDT 1996
Article: 59134 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Date: 23 Aug 1996 00:43:32 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4viurk$26u@news.enter.net>
References: <4vg7r0$ggi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  >>klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>  
>  >>>>      You seem to overlook the fact that the book was not pulled by 
>  >>>>Thomas McCormack.  The decision not to publish the book was made by a 
>  >>>>vote of the senior staff.  The vote was overwhelming; less than 10%
>  >>voted to 
>  >>>>publish the book.

	Actually i wrote that.

>  Joel, when you get the chance pick up a copy of _Time Magazine_ April, 15,
>  1996.

	There is no mention of threats of physical violence.  There were threats 
of an economic boycott.  Do you have a problem with economic boycotts?
  
>  After that you can check out _Jewish Press_ 4/12/96, which "boasts" that
>  St. Martin's caved into jewish pressure and canceled David Irving's book.

	They do not refer to physical threats either.

  
>  Then you can proceed to to an article from the _Jewish Telegraphic Agency_
>  by Debra Nussbaum Cohen which explains that St. Martin's cancelled the
>  Irving contract due to "enormous pressure from Jewish groups and
>  individuals" and specificially cites Abe Foxman of the KGB-ADL as applying
>  the primary pressure.

	They do not refer to phsyical threats.  They do not refer to the ADL as 
agents of the KGB.


>  Obviously the jews didn't like what Mr. Irving had to say and used their
>  power to force St. Martin's to cancel Irving's contract.

	Odd that the personnel of St. Martin's don;t think so.  Why are they so 
ignorant of the truth?
  
>  So what else is new.

	Well for one things, your lies are not new.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 15:10:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59155 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: curiouser and curiouser
Date: 23 Aug 1996 00:51:06 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4viv9q$26u@news.enter.net>
References: <4vg9a2$76s@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp22.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	Mailbombing is not considered polite.

	Neither is spamming.  You doi it.

	Neither are death threats.  You make them.

	Neither is extortion.  You tried it.

	Neither is sending e-mail after requested not to.  Your do it.

	Neither are ethnic slurs.  You make them.

	Neither is lying.  That is your modus operandi.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 17:14:14 PDT 1996
Article: 59218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!spool.mu.edu!daily-planet.execpc.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 23 Aug 1996 20:41:38 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <4vl522$hv2@news.enter.net>
References: <4vikjj$46u@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp40.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kmcvay@nizkor.org (Ken McVay OBC) writes:

>  If Mr. Giwer is prepared to pay the full cost of voiceprint
>  analysis of the disputed tape and adequate control
>  samples, should scientific analysis demonstrate that the tape
>  is a genuine recording of Heinrich Himmler, the Nizkor Project
>  is prepared to negotiate and conclude a legally binding
>  agreement for the purpose of determining the authenticity of
>  the recording.
  
>  Mr. Giwer, upon agreement to participate, shall deposit the
>  full cost of the laboratory analysis, as specified by the
>  laboratory chosen to perform the test, with a recognized trust
>  accountant.
  
>  If the recording is determined to be genuine by reasonable
>  scientific standards, Mr. Giwer will agree to the immediate
>  release of the trust funds to the San Antonio Area Foundation
>  Nizkor Fund as a tax-exempt donation. If the recording is 
>  determined to be fraudulent by reasonable scientific standards, 
>  the trust funds will be returned to Mr. Giwer immediately, and the
>  Nizkor Project will immediately tender reasonable interest on
>  the full amount to Mr. Giwer, and meet the cost of
>  establishing and maintaining the trust account. In no event
>  shall either the trust fund or either party's liability exceed
>  $US10,000.00.
  
>  Mr. Giwer is invited to have his attorney contact me to
>  initiate negotiations leading to the conclusion of such an
>  agreement. (For the purposes of this offer, and subsequent
>  agreement, I designate Mr. Edeiken as my attorney of record,
>  and hereby authorize him to negotiate this matter in my name
>  and to bill me for appropriate professional fees.
>  Should Mr. Edeiken decline this task, I shall designate
>  another American attorney to act in my name.)
  
>  The appropriate phrase at this point would seem to be "Put up,
>  or shut up, Mr. Giwer."
  
>  Mr. Giwer, of course, is unlikely to accept this offer, as....

	Three comments seem appropriate:

	First: Feasability:  The analysis is feasible.  I talked with a private voice 
identification firm and they would be able to make the analysis.  I have never 
used them for analysis but they were highly recommended to me by the 
laboratory that I used to examine questioned documents.  They have excellent 
credentials and have been used by the government and law enforcement bureass 
in New Jersey.  They also have some experience with foreign language 
identification.  In fact, they have been used to verify a speech by Kruschev.

	The requirements are simple.  They would need a good copy of the 
Posnan speech (preferably done with a patch cord) and a copy of another 
speech by him.  A known copy from a movie soundtrack would be sufficient if it 
was of the same quality as the Posnan speech.  Transcripts of the sppech would 
be helpful.

	For an effective identification there would have to be a minimum of 
twenty identical words that could be compared.  Since Himmler spoke at Posnan 
for a considerable amount of time this should be no problem.  Since the selection 
of the words would be at issue  and the laboratory does not have a German 
speaker on staff, one German speaking represenative from each side could assit 
them..

	Second: Price.  The price I was quoted was $1,750.00.  Which seems 
a reasonable fee.  The document analysis lab I use has a minimum fee of 
$2,500.00 and goes up from there.  Further the first $750.00 would be for a 
preliminary analysis.  If they found that a complete identification could not be done 
that would be the total fee.  The final $1,000.00 would include complete analysis 
and a final report.

	Third.  Trust account.  There is no need for any special account.  Every 
lawyer must maintain (or have access to) a trust account for the deposit of clients 
funds.  Withdrawals cannot be made from such an account without notice or, 
depending on the agreement, permission of the client or a court.  If Giwer does 
not trust the account that I maintain or the one our firm maintains either his 
attorney could hold it or we could name a neutral attorney to do so.

	Now we can see whether Giwer really wants to examine the evidence 
or is just running  his mouth in high gear.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 19:19:42 PDT 1996
Article: 59219 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Date: 22 Aug 1996 02:41:11 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 68
Message-ID: <4vghc7$esg@news.enter.net>
References: <4vfq5r$bfi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp156.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>  
>  >>	You seem to overlook the fact that the book was not pulled by 
>  >>Thomas McCormack.  The decision not to publish the book was made by a 
>  >>vote of the senior staff.  The vote was overwhelming; less than 10%
>  voted to 
>  >>publish the book.

	Actually I, not Mr. Lewis (whose opinions on David Irving are well-taken 
and accurate) wrote those lines.


>  Gee after the the jewish ADL threatened them both physically and with a
>  jewish economic boycott I wonder why St. Martin's -didn't- vote for the
>  book?

	Because they were appalled that a publishing house for which they 
worked was about to publish a book by a person whose credentials and honesty 
are in doubt.  If you have anything other than your sneering anti-Semitic rhetoric 
present it.  Present as well a "death threats" or threats of "physical violence." 

	--YFE


  
>  yeah, nobody had a problem with David Irving's "scholarship" until he
>  exposed the Holohoax.

	The libel suits that he lost had nothing to do with his exposure of the 
Holocaust.  Nor did his aberrant behavior during the "Hitler diary" affair.  Nor did 
his statement that he was a "moderate fascist."


>  
>  Until then he was considered with little dispute as the foremost historian
>  on WWII.


	Nonsense.  He had been twice successfully sued for libel.

  
>  Until then he was signing muti-million dollar book contracts and traveling
>  the world over.


	Nonsense.  His books never commanded more than a minimum 
advance.
  
>  But as soon as he exposed the Holohoax for what it is, he was viciously
>  attacked in the same ways that anyone who exposes the holocaust is
>  attacked by the jewish establishment.

	Nonsense.
  
>  The jews used they money-power to terrorize St. Martin's, through their
>  KGB goons in the ADL, and to pressure St. Martin to drop Irving's book
>  contract.  
>  Finally, St. Martin's caved in.

	Odd that the personnel of St. Martin's did not feel threatened.  
>  Score another one for jewish-money power, 

>  But thankfully the man has the integrity to proclaim the truth.

	Sure.  That's why he keeps losing libel cases.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 19:19:42 PDT 1996
Article: 59226 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:11:45 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4vlhc1$jum@news.enter.net>
References: <4vjo1m$qqc@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp96.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  >	You have not addressed the point.
  
>  you too Yale didn't read my response:
>  
>  "The nazis were fighting a 2-front war and men and money were at
>  all-time premium. Or even if they had wanted to "gas" jews instead of
>  easily shooting them, which itself would have been inexplicable, they
>  could have set up gas chambers nearby since according to the holocausters
>  any old barn will do for a gas-chamber."


	Yes, I did read your meaningless babble.  You claim the nazis would 
not have transported Jews becasue they could not spare the men or money.  
Your "explanation" assumes that there was an expenditure of both.

	In fact, there wsa neither an expenditure of money or manpower.

	The Jews -- and in some cases occupied countries -- were required to 
pay for their own transport.  They charged standard railroad passenger fares.  
The transportation cost no money.  In fact, it was a money making proposition.

	The Jews were transported over a rail system.  The rail system was 
required by the nazi government.  There was no additional manpower diverted 
to run the rail system.  The manpower was already in place and was not taken 
away from running the railroad sytem until, late in the war, the rail system was no 
longer running.

	No, try to defend your silliness.  Tell us how a positive flow of cash to 
the railroads constitutes an expenditure.

	Take it even a step further.  Apply it to your theory that the nazis were 
really transporting them to work camps.  You have stated that this is what 
really happened.  How was this *less* an expenditure of manpower or finances 
than transporting them to the death camps.

	I would characterize your position as a house of cards but it takes 
some definable amount of skill to build a house of cards.  You have merely 
thrown the cards on the floor and pretended that you have built a house of 
cards.


	--YFE

  
>  In other words, if the nazis were supposedly trying to 'exterminate' the
>  jews, the nazis -would not- have spent the money on some hokey goofy
>  scheme but would have used the convenient and economic means of 
-shooting-
>  them.  The money wouldn't have been used on what you're saying it was 
used
>  on -if- extermination was the object, which it obviously was not.
>  
>  They would have spent the money on the things they -needed- for the 2
>  front war, and not the rigmarole.  
>  
>  It may not be possible to say it any more elementary so if you still can't
>  understand it, get some help from Chuck or Mike.  Giwer, and others, can
>  comprehend it.
>  
>  Aren't you paying attention either?
>  
>  Kurt Ste
>  
>>>>



From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 21:25:58 PDT 1996
Article: 59247 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n2ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Here We Go Again (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 24 Aug 1996 01:22:11 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 37
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	We were also over the railroad records and the holohuggers insisted
>  that there were  no records kept of those being shipped to be gassed.
>  At that point I asked why there was preselection for gassing in one
>  story and then selection at the camp in another story.  That is where
>  the holohuggers dropped the subject.  

	Wrong again Matty poo.

	Are you just lying again or just stupid.  The statements, which were 
accurate, pointed out that Auschwitz did not register those who were selected for 
gassing.  How this was tranformed in your vicious little mind as "railroad records" is 
a matter for a professional in abnormal pyschology.

	No has stated that the railroads did not keep records.

	You do kn ow the difference betwen a railroad and a concentration 
camp don't you?


>  	IF only only IF the argument were for conserving bullets or conserving
>  gas would you have a point.  However, the WW II gassing is being
>  justified based upon the economics of bullet costs against
>  transportation and other costs.  It would be good if you would keep to
>  the subject.  

	What was the cost of transportation, Matty poo.  The railroad charged 
at normal passenger rates.  The economics were that they were making a profit on 
transporting Jews.

>  	You do not appear to be able to stick to the subject.  

	Coming from someone who changes the subject each time one of his 
lies are exposed.  From you, a statement like this is a mandatory coffe alert.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 23 21:25:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59269 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen/Einsatzkommandos
Date: 24 Aug 1996 03:00:21 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  If you had provided the evidence 50 years ago, you wouldn't be asked 
about it now.
>  
>>>>
	If you had read the evidence that was produced 50 years agao, you 
wouldn't be making an ass of yourself now.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 08:17:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59299 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 24 Aug 1996 01:29:45 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On Sat, 17 Aug 1996 20:44:07 +0100, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
>  wrote:

>  > If you lived within Danish jurisdiction I could easily sue you for libel 
>  >because you are calling me a nazi. I have never advocated dictatorship,
>  >military expansion etc. so I do not qualify as a nazi. Futhermore Hitler
>  >said several times that national socialism knows only Germany and is 
>  >not meant for export. Nazism is krautstuff. Are you unable to understand
>  >that?
  
>  	And then they think they are safe hiding behind the shield of being
>  able to call Nazi with impugnity.   

	No we are hiding behind that old shield.  It's called truth as a defense 
to libel.  Since you wish a legal reference consider "Crown v. Zenger."

  
>  	It is about time that shield gets tested in court.  
 
	Fine you are a liar and an anti-Semite.  You pathological reaction to 
those who expose you as such have been the criminal acts of extortion, 
harrassment, and terroistic threats.

	Would you preer the address of the Clerk of Courts for the Court of 
Common Pleas of Lehigh County or the U.S. District Court for the Eastern 
District of Pennsylvania. 

 
>  	Libel is libel but without facts it is clearly libel.  


	And with truth it clearly is not.  In this cse it is not.

  
>  	"in my opinion you are a Nazi" is one thing.  The clear statement of
>  being a nazi is libel.  

	Only if untrue.  In this case it is not.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 08:17:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59323 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just in case anyone missed it
Date: 23 Aug 1996 23:39:55 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
  
>  	Whois Ken McVay?


	What Giwer continues to ignore is that rather more interesting invitation to 
explore abnormal pyschology, to wit:

	"Whois Matt Giwer?"

	`One example of his rather peculiar view of the world is his statement that 
"testimony is not evidence."

	One source that disagrees with him is Black's Law Dictionary which 
states:

	"TESTIFY: to bear winess; to give evidence as a witness; to make a 
solemn declaration, under oath or affirmation, in a judicial inquiry, for the purpose of 
etablishing or proving some fact."

	For those unfamiliar with this standard reference work for the meaning of 
words in a legal context,  in the period from January through May, 1996, 
Pennsylvania appeals courts cited Black's Law Dictionary 19 times as an 
authoritative source for the definition of words.  They did not cite Giwer once.

	--YFE  


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 12:29:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59441 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: 23 Aug 1996 23:30:13 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  The reference Himmler made re-obviate to my mind suggests that he was 
referring to those who resisted the Nazis by force of arms.
>  
>>>>


	"re-obviate to my mind"?

	Before you start interpreting something written in German, why don't 
you try to learn your own language.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 12:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59442 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: basic warnings for the use of gas masks
Date: 23 Aug 1996 23:13:34 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  
>  1. This device does not supply oxygen and must be used only in
>  adequately ventilated areas containing at least 19.5% oxygen. 
>  2. This gas mask must be used in conjunction with the proper canister
>  for protection against specific contaminants. 

	{lots of stuff snipped]


>  Failure to follow the above warnings can result in serious personal
>  injury or death.

	Yes, Matty poo. it sounds like cynanide the perfect kind of gas to use in a 
working environment several times a day to kill flies.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 12:29:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59443 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen/Einsatzkommandos
Date: 23 Aug 1996 23:28:25 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  Instead of all this quibbling with words which mean nothing as far as I'm 
concerned-provide the EVIDENCE-that's what is left.  You 
>  didn't provide it in 1945 and you haven't provided it yet.  When will you?  
Don't show me mounds of glasses, piles of shoes, dubious 
>  photographs, "official" documents, sworn affadavits, court testimonies, etc. 
etc. ad nauseam, ad infinitum. 

	Where I come from that is considered "evidence."  I come from the 
read world.  Where do you come from?




>  Simply show me the 
>  graves and the evidence which proves that x thousands of people were 
murdered in that spot.  Take your federal rules of court and 
>  peddle them elsewhere.

	Ah yes.  Forget about evidence.  Cater to your stupid whims.  If you 
grow up the rest of the world won't treat you like an asshole.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 12:29:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59498 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Po' widdie Aryan chilluns
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:15:48 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   qut@netcom.com (Skip) writes:

>  Most of the privately and publicly owned stations are directly
>  owned by Jews in the United States of America,

	Would you explain to all and sundry how "publically owned" stations are 
"owned" by a private group?


	Do you realize how silly you sound?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 12:29:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59502 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gassing evidence bears [amused] interest
Date: 24 Aug 1996 01:06:45 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 21 Aug 1996 01:17:05 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >	The real question is "whois Matt Giwer?"  There is ample evidence that 
>  >he is a visitor from another dimension.  In his dimension Washington's 
>  >encampment at Valley Forge did not happen during the American Revolution.
  
>  >	He is either a visitor from another dimension.
  
>  >	Or an outright fraud.
  
>  >	I vote for the simple solution.

>  	Exercise a simple whois and find out.   Have you not tried that?  
  
>  	Or does it surprise you that I started out as hidden as McVeigh is
>  now?  Actually there is no McVeigh and there is no me.  

	Perhaps that explains why you cannot answer a simple question.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 13:29:53 PDT 1996
Article: 59541 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:24:23 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
 
>  >>  	An unknown person made a recording.  
  
>  >	Himmler is hardly unknown. 


>  >>  	That is exactly all we have on the matter.  All this crap about
>  >>  ausrottung is quite a laugh when we have no solid knowledge of who
>  >>  recorded it or if it was ever delivered.  
  
>  >	Wrong again.  You're getting very desperate.


>  	Sorry, consigliere, it was orginally presented EXACTLY as I have
>  recounted it.  

	That is an out and out lie.  It has always been presented at Himmler's 
speech recorded as he gave it at a given place and on a given date to a given 
audience.  The National Archives  -- which will sell you a copy if you wish to 
divert some of your money from from the liquor store -- says so.  Nobody but you 
and a  select few of your nazi buddies has ever said otherwise.

	But now you have a chance to prove it.

	You have read McVay's challenge.  You have even responded to the 
posting.

	*You* can now prove your claims without the expenditure of a single 
penny.

	You won't.

	You make a big noise but you know who the liar is.

	You know it is you.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 13:29:54 PDT 1996
Article: 59542 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematoria == gassing
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:49:43 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	Do you not have a curious bone in your body?  

	Sure.  I have lots of them.  I ahve been asking several for a long time.  
You seem unwilling to satify my curiousity.  I am curious, for example, as to how 
someone who claims to be able to analyse the Nuremberg Trials could have been 
under the impression that various nazis were convicted and hund for having 
massacred Polish officers at Katyn Woods.

	Would you care to answer that one?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 14:43:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59545 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Those Sensitive Nazis."
Date: 23 Aug 1996 03:16:08 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  There's been several claims by holocausters in this newsgroup that jews do
>  -not- dominate the media, citing gentiles Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch as
>  evidence.  What are the facts?  

	The fact is that neither are Jewish.

>  I) The top three media conglomerates in Electronic news and Entertainment:
>   Disney, Time Warner, and Viacom  (all three of which are jewish run
>  and/or owned).  

	All three are publically owned companies.  Anybody has a right to buy 
stock in them.


>  II) The Big three Newspapers -- The New York Times, the Washington, and
>  the Wall Street Journal (all three of which are jewish-owned and run).

	They are not the three largest newspapers in the U.S.

  
>  III) The former top three TV networks -- ABC, NBC, and CBS and their
>  current status of ownership. 


	All are subsidiaries of publically owned companies.

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 15:19:05 PDT 1996
Article: 59570 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: curiouser and curiouser
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:54:33 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 23 Aug 1996 00:51:06 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >>  	Mailbombing is not considered polite.
  
>  >	Neither is spamming.  You doi it.
  
>  >	Neither are death threats.  You make them.
  
>  >	Neither is extortion.  You tried it.
  
>  >	Neither is sending e-mail after requested not to.  Your do it.
  
>  >	Neither are ethnic slurs.  You make them.
  
>  >	Neither is lying.  That is your modus operandi.
  
>  	Nor are lies like yours considered reasonable.  

	Odd Matty poo that you cannot name them.


  
>  	And as to your libel, I am awaiting the arrest after all this time.  

	Please show where I posted that.  You're lying again Matty poo.  Your 
posts are the best evidence for my statements about you.

  
>  	That makes you the libeler.  
  
>  	If you really were an attorney, you would know better than to post
>  what you have posted.  


	A good one Matty poo.  When confrtonted with your lies, claim someone 
else it the lair.  

>  	But you should know that an attorney can not post what you have 
posted
>  without case law to support it.  

	And your belief that I do not have case is?  You're whistling in the wind 
Matty poo.  You are a criminal and you know it.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 16:59:59 PDT 1996
Article: 59601 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:07:28 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >  >  The reference Himmler made re-obviate to my mind suggests that he was 
>  >  referring to those who resisted the Nazis by force of arms.

>  >  	"re-obviate to my mind"?
  
>  >  	Before you start interpreting something written in German, why don't 
>  >  you try to learn your own language.

>  Obviously this was a typo which should read "obvious".  Now, why don't you 
be a nice little boy and go ask 
>  your mommy to teach you the manners she never taught you years ago?

	A typo is a mistake made in typing.  If we substitute for the word you 
used, the word you state that you meant the following sentence results:

	"The reference Himmler made obvious to my my mind suggests that he . 
. . . . "

	This is incoherent.  I repeat my admonition.  Before you attempt to 
interpret something in a foreign language, learn your own.  You have yet to do so.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 17:00:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59602 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:10:12 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >  >  The reference Himmler made re-obviate to my mind suggests that he was 
>  >  referring to those who resisted the Nazis by force of arms.

>  >  	"re-obviate to my mind"?
  
>  >  	Before you start interpreting something written in German, why don't 
>  >  you try to learn your own language.

>  Of course you never make typos.  Would you mind telling us what the READ 
world is?  That's what you 
>  wrote in one of your posts.

	That, unlike you gibberish, was a typo.  Now that you have been 
instructed in the proper meaning of the word, return to high school and learn to 
write a sentence in simple English.  Once you understand your own language you 
will not write sentences that begin "The refernce Himmler made obvious to mind 
suggests . . . . "

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 17:00:01 PDT 1996
Article: 59603 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:11:43 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:

>  And of course you never replied to my argument, you little prevaricator, you.


	It is almost impossible to respond when your "agrument" has no 
discernable meaning.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 17:00:02 PDT 1996
Article: 59604 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:16:53 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:

>  >  : >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

>  >  : >  	"re-obviate to my mind"?
  
>  >  : Obviously this was a typo which should read "obvious".  Now, why don't you 
be a nice little boy and go 
>  ask 
>  >  : your mommy to teach you the manners she never taught you years ago?
  
>  >  That's a hell of a typo--"obvious" to "re-obviate".  You have some 
>  >  sort of nervous fit there at the keyboard, nazi-boy?

>  Do I know you?  If you had a brain in your head, you would see that re:   is in 
reference to a subject and 
>  obviate was a typo.  If this is the only reply you can make to my arguments,  
along with calling me a 
>  nazi-boy, you have made my day.  Sticks and stones....etc...

	I see now you are claiming that the sentence you wanted to write began: 
"The reference Himmler made re-obvious to my mind suggesting . . . . "

	This sentence makes no sense.

	--YFE

	


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 18:02:43 PDT 1996
Article: 59605 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just in case anyone missed it
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:31:07 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  >	What Giwer continues to ignore is that rather more interesting invitation 
to 
>  >explore abnormal pyschology, to wit:

>  >	"Whois Matt Giwer?"
>  
>  >	`One example of his rather peculiar view of the world is his statement that 
>  >"testimony is not evidence."
  
>  >	One source that disagrees with him is Black's Law Dictionary which 
>  >states:
  
>  >	"TESTIFY: to bear winess; to give evidence as a witness; to make a 
>  >solemn declaration, under oath or affirmation, in a judicial inquiry, for the 
purpose of 
>  >etablishing or proving some fact."
  
>  >	For those unfamiliar with this standard reference work for the meaning of 
>  >words in a legal context,  in the period from January through May, 1996, 
>  >Pennsylvania appeals courts cited Black's Law Dictionary 19 times as an 
>  >authoritative source for the definition of words.  They did not cite Giwer once.

>  	Whois Ken McVay?

	Matty poo still cannot explain why his opinion contradicts that of Black's 
Law Dictionary.

	Let's try another of his lies an see if he can explain that:

	Matty poo asserts that "Grey's" Anatomy states that there is only one 
bone in the cranium.  Will he name a single medical school that agrees with him?

	Or will he just spam this group with his silliness?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 18:02:44 PDT 1996
Article: 59606 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews death-threat St. Martin employees
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:27:03 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  
>  
>  Holohuggers continue to claim the employees of St. Martin's publishing
>  house were not threatened physically.

	For a simple reason.  They were not.


>  For newcomers, St. Martin's is the
>  firm forced to cancel David Irving's book contract due to threats and
>  pressure from the jewish ADL and other jews. Holohuggers were already
>  given the cite of _Time_ magazine April 15, 1996 which explicitly says
>  that the employees complained of death threats.  

	St. Martin's was not forced to do anything.  There were no death 
threats.


>  Holohuggers have difficulty deducing facts which do not suit their
>  religious opinions. Sometimes you have to repeat things several times
>  before they can understand, if then.

	Fine.  I will repeat again a few fact which need no "deducing." 

	St. Martin's made the decision  based on a vote of the senior editorial 
staff.  Less that 105 of which felt the book should be published by St. Martin's.

	There were no "death" threats or other threats of physical violence.

	I have talked to two editors who were at that meeting.  How many 
have you contacted?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 18:02:44 PDT 1996
Article: 59608 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:45:48 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  >I think you are going to have to widen this conspiracy to include the
>  >National Archives.
>  
>  	As it was originally presented there the National Archives were
>  considering (planning?  looking for the money to?) have a voice print
>  analysis done to establish the identity of the speaker.  
  

	Noone ever "presented" that.  The National Archives is quite secure 
in their knowledge of who the speaker was.  It was Himmler.


>  	Therefore they are not part of the conspiracy unless that presentation
>  was false.  

	Since the "presentation" was nover made this is irrelevant.

  
>  	But if that presentation was true then it is the creation of someone
>  else.  

	It is.  It is the creation of Matt Giwer.

	You have claimed the tape is fraudulent.

	Why are you not willing to have your ideas tested?

	Is it because you know you are a fraud?

	Even the "lurkers" you claim that you play to are able to see the truth.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 18:02:48 PDT 1996
Article: 59621 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:50:03 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

  
>  What is so inhumane about asking e.g. a Turk to live in Turkey. There 
>  already live millions of Turks in Turkey. Is that inhumane too?

	What is inhumane, nazi boy, is forcibly deporting Danish citizens 
becasue you do not like their ethnic background.


	They are Danish citizens with as much right to remain in their homeland 
as you do.  You peculiar racist fantasies cannot change that.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 18:44:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59624 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 25 Aug 1996 00:25:17 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

>   You seem to be ignorant of what nazism was. Nazism was a particular German
>  phenomena.

	Wrong.  It was a world wide movement.  There were and are nazi parties 
in several countried including the U.S.


> Hitler said several times that national socialism knows only
>  Germany and is not meant for export.

	Wrong.  He tried to export it.


> Nazi race science as you call it was 
>  not invented by the nazis. The idea of an Aryan superior race comes from 
>  the French writer and diplomat Arthur de Gobineau. In his four volume work, 
>  An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races, this allegation is made. 
>  Hitler was basically a nonentity as philosoffer.

	It was the nazis who adopted it and "improved" it. 


> The animosity towards 
>  the Jews was already in Germany and Austria before his birth. Have you ever
>  heard about Goldhagen's book? One thing is for sure you do not have to
>  be a nazi in order to be Anti-Jewish or a racialist. 

	And, like you naiz-boy, you can be all three.

>  >>   However, I am against the immigration from the third world and multi-ethnic 
>  >>  society. Not so many years ago marriage between people of different races 
>  >>  were forbidden in several states in the USA, and there was racial 
>  >>  segregation. Were those Americans that supported and wanted this kind of 
>  >>  legislation against the American constitution and in favour of dictatorship? 
>  >>  Were they "nazis"?

>  >       Yes, many were.
 
>  But how many? 3, 4  or 200. Not a significant number anyhow.

	Wrong.  There were several million members of the America First 
movement -- a nazi front organization.


>  >> A lot of American racist Southerners fought eagerly 
>  >>  against the Germans in WW2. Have you ever heard of any incidents of 
>  >>  Americans refusing to fight against Germany in WW2 of ideological reasons?

>  >       Yes. 

>  Again. How many?

	Quite a few actually.  About 300 went to jail for refusing.  Elizabeth 
Dilling -- who operates a web page on the Internet -- went to jail for openly 
advocating that men avoid the draft so that they did not have to fight nazis.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 18:44:24 PDT 1996
Article: 59626 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 11-year old sets Canada's Internet Policy
Date: 24 Aug 1996 00:34:28 GMT
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>  >>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  
>  >>  Joel, when you get the chance pick up a copy of _Time Magazine_ April,
>  15,
>  >>  1996.
>  
>  >	There is no mention of threats of physical violence.  There were
>  threats 
>  >of an economic boycott.  Do you have a problem with economic boycotts?
>  
>  yes I do.

	The same can be said of any botcott.  Do you have a problem with 
the Southern Baptist's call to boycott Disney?  A boycott is and remains a proper 
weapon used my many groups.  Your complaint seems to be that a Jewish 
boycott can be effective.



>  >	Well for one things, your lies are not new.
  
>  Would the ADL ever pressure anyone who's view they didn't like?  Naah. 

	Which, of course, is their right.  Just as it is the right of the Southern 
Baptists to pressure Disney or the Farm Worker's Union to pressure grape 
growers.


  
>  Would a group of people with unchallengable money-power ever use it to
>  further there own interests and silence views they dislike?

	Who says it is unchallengable.  The Jewish groups had objections to 
Irving's works.  They made their objections known and used a legal weapon 
widely used by many groups.  This is far different from your original claim.

	They did not threaten violence against St. Martin's.  You mendaciously 
claimed that they did.  The open dishonesty of your argument is one good 
reason why no-one takes it seriously.

	If you has a real argument you would not have rely on invention.

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 19:25:13 PDT 1996
Article: 59631 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 25 Aug 1996 00:00:01 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	Sorry, schyster, that is exactly where I came into this conference
>  again last year.  

  
>  	It was presented exactly as I have described it.  


	Yers.  It was presented to you as a speech given by Himmler to a group 
fo SS officers as Posen.  You claimed that it was a forgery becasue tape recording 
had not been invented yet.



  
>  	It was my most recent re-introduction to this ng that indicated is was
>  no more intelligent than was years ago.   It is still full of lying
>  holohuggers

	You are claiming something is a fake.  You have been given the chance 
to prove it.  If you are right it will cost you nothing.

	The truth is simple:

	You know who the liar is.

	His name is Matt Giwer.

	Who but a liar would want to have his accusations proven?

	--YFE



From yawen@enter.net Sat Aug 24 22:15:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59655 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: before I forget
Date: 23 Aug 1996 23:22:56 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	Whois Ken McVay?

	The question that Matty poo has a problem with is this one:

	"Whois Matt Giwer."

	For one thing Matty poo tells us that "testimony is not evidence."  
Unfortuantely Matty poo cannot explain this entry in Black's Law Dictionary:

	TESTIMONY: Evidence given by a competent witness under oath or 
affirmation; as distinguished from evidence derived from writings and other 
sources."

	For those of you not familiar with this standard reference as to the 
meaning of words in a legal context, since 1984 Black's Law Dictionary has been 
cited 437 times by Pennsylvania appeals courts as an authrotiative source.  In the 
same period of time, Giwer has not been cited once.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 09:51:23 PDT 1996
Article: 59667 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken
Date: 25 Aug 1996 05:04:43 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

>   I apologise Yale for my comportment this week. I humiliated you twice
>   in the same week, about the number of Holocaust survivors in Israel
>   and the evacuation of the soviet Jews. I promiss I'll spare you more
>   in the future.

	You "humiliated" me neither times.  You are still mistaken about the 
number of survivors who immigrated to Israel insofar as the dates are concerned.  
Nor have you provided any proof that more than a fraction of the Jews in the path 
of the nazi armies escaped by exacuation.  In particular you presented no 
numbers on the evacuation of Polish Jews.

	Sorry.  You are still providing phony numbers.

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 09:51:25 PDT 1996
Article: 59689 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:41:30 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 23 Aug 1996 20:41:38 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
  
>  >>   kmcvay@nizkor.org (Ken McVay OBC) writes:
  
>  >>  If Mr. Giwer is prepared to pay the full cost of voiceprint
>  >>  analysis of the disputed tape and adequate control
>  >>  samples, should scientific analysis demonstrate that the tape
>  >>  is a genuine recording of Heinrich Himmler, the Nizkor Project
>  >>  is prepared to negotiate and conclude a legally binding
>  >>  agreement for the purpose of determining the authenticity of
>  >>  the recording.
  
>  >>  Mr. Giwer, upon agreement to participate, shall deposit the
>  >>  full cost of the laboratory analysis, as specified by the
>  >>  laboratory chosen to perform the test, with a recognized trust
>  >>  accountant.
  
>  >>  If the recording is determined to be genuine by reasonable
>  >>  scientific standards, Mr. Giwer will agree to the immediate
>  >>  release of the trust funds to the San Antonio Area Foundation
>  >>  Nizkor Fund as a tax-exempt donation. If the recording is 
>  >>  determined to be fraudulent by reasonable scientific standards, 
>  >>  the trust funds will be returned to Mr. Giwer immediately, and the
>  >>  Nizkor Project will immediately tender reasonable interest on
>  >>  the full amount to Mr. Giwer, and meet the cost of
>  >>  establishing and maintaining the trust account. In no event
>  >>  shall either the trust fund or either party's liability exceed
>  >>  $US10,000.00.
  
>  >>  Mr. Giwer is invited to have his attorney contact me to
>  >>  initiate negotiations leading to the conclusion of such an
>  >>  agreement. (For the purposes of this offer, and subsequent
>  >>  agreement, I designate Mr. Edeiken as my attorney of record,
>  >>  and hereby authorize him to negotiate this matter in my name
>  >>  and to bill me for appropriate professional fees.
>  >>  Should Mr. Edeiken decline this task, I shall designate
>  >>  another American attorney to act in my name.)
  
>  >>  The appropriate phrase at this point would seem to be "Put up,
>  >>  or shut up, Mr. Giwer."

>  >	First: Feasability:  The analysis is feasible.  I talked with a private voice 
>  >identification firm and they would be able to make the analysis.  I have never 
>  >used them for analysis but they were highly recommended to me by the 
>  >laboratory that I used to examine questioned documents.  They have 
excellent 
>  >credentials and have been used by the government and law enforcement 
bureass 
>  >in New Jersey.  They also have some experience with foreign language 
>  >identification.  In fact, they have been used to verify a speech by Kruschev.
  
>  >	The requirements are simple.  They would need a good copy of the 
>  >Posnan speech (preferably done with a patch cord) and a copy of another 
>  >speech by him.  A known copy from a movie soundtrack would be sufficient 
if it 
>  >was of the same quality as the Posnan speech.  Transcripts of the sppech 
would 
>  >be helpful.
  
>  >	For an effective identification there would have to be a minimum of 
>  >twenty identical words that could be compared.  Since Himmler spoke at 
Posnan 
>  >for a considerable amount of time this should be no problem.  Since the 
selection 
>  >of the words would be at issue  and the laboratory does not have a German 
>  >speaker on staff, one German speaking represenative from each side could 
assit 
>  >them..
  
>  >	Second: Price.  The price I was quoted was $1,750.00.  Which 
seems 
>  >a reasonable fee.  The document analysis lab I use has a minimum fee of 
>  >$2,500.00 and goes up from there.  Further the first $750.00 would be for a 
>  >preliminary analysis.  If they found that a complete identification could not be 
done 
>  >that would be the total fee.  The final $1,000.00 would include complete 
analysis 
>  >and a final report.
  
>  >	Third.  Trust account.  There is no need for any special account.  
Every 
>  >lawyer must maintain (or have access to) a trust account for the deposit of 
clients 
>  >funds.  Withdrawals cannot be made from such an account without notice 
or, 
>  >depending on the agreement, permission of the client or a court.  If Giwer 
does 
>  >not trust the account that I maintain or the one our firm maintains either his 
>  >attorney could hold it or we could name a neutral attorney to do so.
  
>  >	Now we can see whether Giwer really wants to examine the evidence 
>  >or is just running  his mouth in high gear.

>  	All of this talk when the National Archives can make a day trip to
>  Quantico and have it verified.  

	They are not claiming it is phony.  You are.



>  	By why do they not have it verified?  A waste of time is one
>  explanation. 

	And a very explanation at that.  They think it is the McCoy.  They 
have no reason to have it tested. 

	You think it is phony.  You have a reason to have it tested.

>  	A tape of a broadcast would be of value.  A copy of the tape from the
>  archives of a radio station would be a value.  A transcript of the
>  speech would be of value.  

	Why when there is something even better.  A tape of the speech 
itself.

>  
>  	This tape is of no value to the discussion even if the speaker is
>  identified as there is no indication that this speech was ever
>  delivered or, if delivered, what words were used in the delivered
>  version of the speech.  




	Since we have a copy of the speech that was given, testimony from 
people who were there that they heard it, and no problem identifying the speaker 
your argument is hokum.




	You have claimed that the speech that was taped is forgery and being 
fraudulently represented by the National Archives.  The onus is upon you.




	The cards are on the table, Matty poo.



	Your bluff has been called.




	Show us what you have or we rake in the chips.




	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 09:51:27 PDT 1996
Article: 59714 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Strikes Out, Yet Again (Re: Holocaust revisionism)
Date: 25 Aug 1996 08:51:58 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4vp47e$i6s@news.enter.net>
References: <4vouea$rqb@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp5.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	We have been there, done that, found out you are CS type meaning 
you
>  know nothing of science and are not qualified to judge.  


	Gee, Giwer poses as a scientist (which he is not) yet again.

	Scientists test their theorems against facts.

	Giwer doesn't.  In fact, he refuses to do so.

	Case in point:  There is a tape of Heinrich Himmler giving a speech in 
Posen before SS officers in which he specifically refers to the policy of annilating 
Jews.

	Matty poo doesn't agree with the rest of the world.  Matty poo, on no 
evidence whatsoever, has annouced that the tape is a fraud perpetrated by the 
CIA.  If he is correct, he will have taken a key bit of evidence away from those 
who state that the Holocaust happened.  If he is correct, he will have established 
that key evidence in the case against his nazi heros at Nurmeberg was fraudulent.

	Can the recording which Matty poo claims is fake be tested to 
determine whether it is or is not Heinrich Himmler speaking?

	Absolutely.

	Would any person who claims to be a scientist make this test of his 
theorem?

	Absolutely.

	
	Has a mechanism been proposed whereby Matty poo could participate 
in such a test with, if he is correct, the cost being borne by those he scorns?

	Absolutely.

	Will Matty poo provew his alleged devotion to the scientific method and 
participate in the test?

	Absolutely not!

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 09:51:28 PDT 1996
Article: 59719 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 23 Aug 1996 20:50:37 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
 
>  >         The Tulsa Worls is hardly the New York Times, Lyin' Al.  Now that you 
>  > have found the obscure newstory please give us a quotation from the ALD 
making 
>  > the statement you claim they made.
  
>  The Tulsa World is hardly an obscure newspaper. Try reading some of the 
dross
>  churned out by the ADL, or the so-called ANTI-SEMITISM WORLD REPORT 
by the
>  Institute of Jewish Affairs.
  
	You have stated that the ADL made a statement.  Either they made that 
statement or they did not.  It would have been very easy, had the statement really 
been made, for you to provide it.  You evasions prove only that you knew of no 
such statement by the ADL when you annouced that such a statement was 
made.  You have refused to provide even  a single reference to that statement.  
You have not even come close.  The conclusion is inescapable:

	You are lying again.

	You made it up and were, for the manyish time, caught making up some 
lie about the ADL because of your pathological hatred for Jews.

	Why don't you admit the obvious  . . . .

	--YFE	


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 09:51:29 PDT 1996
Article: 59778 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:18:26 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4vo2k2$9d4@news.enter.net>
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>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:

>  Sorry to alarm you, but......we are here to stay and in spite of insults will not go 
away.

	Nor, appently, will you learn the nicities of writing a sentence in the 
English language that makes sense.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 09:51:30 PDT 1996
Article: 59779 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers:  jewish economic boycotts are OK
Date: 24 Aug 1996 23:22:25 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 20
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
  
>  Holohuggers claim that jewish economic boycotts are OK.  They claim that
>  jewish boycotts are no different than Baptist boycotts or Greenpeace
>  boycotts.

	What's the difference.

  
>  It's just so happens, though, that jewish-money power is far more powerful
>  and cohesive than any other group.  The influence and cohesion of any
>  other group pales in comparison to the power of the jews.

	In other words , in your opinion, it evil becasue they it better.


	[the usual anti-Semitic dribble snipped -- I hold no stock in companies 
selling remedies for nausea]

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:11 PDT 1996
Article: 59818 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:16:49 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   qut@netcom.com (Skipp OBC) writes:
>  In <4vomtb$e6t@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
>  ! 	Sorry.  You are still providing phony numbers.

>  You mean he's failing to provide enough personal data so you can harass 
>  him better?  How evil!  This must be what Dr. Godhagen said about the 
>  evil citizens who won't do what Jews want them to.

	No.  I mean his numbers are phony.  That is, he fudges them to get the 
results he wants.  His use of the number of Jews who immigrated from Europe to 
Israel after WW II is a godd example.

	JFB claimed that about 500,000 survivors immigrated to Israel in the 
period from 1945-50.  In fact, that number is the total number of suvivors -- to the 
present who found their way to Israel.  He arrived at this phony number by adding 
in Sephardic Jews who immigrated between 1948-50.  The dishonesty is that he 
then reports the number of survivors in Europe in 1950 and *adds* them to the 
number of survivors who went to Isreal. In other words, he counts them twice.

	He played similar games with U.S. refugee immigration.  In the period 
before 1950, less than 70,000 refugee Jews were admitted to the U.S.  JFB first 
claimed that no records were kept by religion.  This is not true; they were.  He 
then speculates that 100,000s of non-Jews were, in reality Jews.  This flies in the 
face of the reports given to Congress and the president.  Finally, to make his 
numbers even larger, he tells us that about 500,000 Jews illegally immigrated to 
the U.S.

	His latest claim is that there were never 3,000,000 Polish Jews under 
nazi control because the Soviets "evacuated" the bulk of the Jews before the 
nazi armies arrived.  This is simply not the case.  Approximately 2,500,000 Jews 
were trapped in the part of Poland controlled by the nazis.  Few of the remaining 
1,500,000 ever made it to the Soviet Union as JFB claims.  Operation Barbarossa 
simply moved too fast.  Soviet Poland fell in less than a week.

	Likewise while there wer attempts to evacuate Jews from White Russia 
during Barbarossa, the bulk of the Jews were caught by the advancing German 
army.  According to Dawidowicz "Most Jews in the Baltics, White Russia, the 
Ukraine, Bessarabia, and the Crimea [the targets of the opening campaing of 
Barbarossa] were caught by the German invasion, which advanced too rapidly to 
permit large scale flight or sytematic evacuation." ("The War Against the Jews"; 
page 499)

	JFB claims there were few Jews left in cities such as Kiev or Minsk 
when the Germans arrived.  Clearly this is incorrect.  The Babi Yar murders in 
September 1941 killed 33,000 Jews.  Far more than JFB claims were left in the 
city.  Likewise JFB claims there were less than 5,000 Jews in Minsk when the nazi 
armies arrived.  Again the facts contradict this claim.  In August 1941 Himmler 
visited Minsk and, at his own request, saw a mass execution of Jews (Reitlinger; 
"The SS: Alibi of a Nation" page 183 of the 1989 paperback edition). Although 
Himmler did stay for the whole show, the series of executions, according to the 
Eisatzguppen accounts were far greater than 5,000 people.

	In short, JFB's numbers cannot be substantiated.  They are figments of 
his imagination.

	I note that the only response you make is a gratuitous charge that I 
have harrassed JFB.  A charge that he does not make and that you cannot 
substantiate.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:12 PDT 1996
Article: 59819 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg awarded $1M federal grant
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:25:16 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schwartz@infinet.com writes:

>  (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

>  >         "Into the camp of death rode the six million."  
 
>  >         Where is Kipling when we need him?  
   
>  Rolling in his grave at the thought of YOU corrupting his words.
>   
>  Hope that helps.

	Or complaining about "lesser breeds without the law."  or asking 
others to take up "the White Man's burden."  There was one journalist who, 
referring to the Phillipines wrote:

	"We have picked up the White Man's burden
	of black men and of brown.
	Now won't you tell us, Rudyard,
	how we can put it down."

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:13 PDT 1996
Article: 59820 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Proof of Jewish Media Control
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:30:04 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4vq2is$n2s@news.enter.net>
References: <25AUG199606341850@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp95.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:
>  kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes...
>  >Here's Yale's "refutation" of jewish media control:
>  > yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  >>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
 
>  >>>  II) The Big three Newspapers -- The New York Times, the Washington, 
and
>  >>>  the Wall Street Journal (all three of which are jewish-owned and run).
 
>  >>	They are not the three largest newspapers in the U.S.
 
>  >those three jewish-owned paper are -merely- the three most influential
>  >newspapers in the U.S.  
  
>      Ahem, Kurt baby...
  
>      Has it ever occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, these are -- AS YOU
>      SAY -- "the three most influential newspapers in the U.S." BECAUSE THEY
>      ARE GOOD?
  
>      No, that would be too easy, wouldn't it, Kurt baby.  That people would
>      read and respect newspapers because they do a good job at providing
>      news coverage.

	Apparently the Stone Pillar's complaint is not the Jews are doing 
something they shouldn't (in this case publish newspapers) but that, in his 
opinion, they do it better than others.  A case in point is his statement that the a 
proposed Jewish boycott is bad while the proposed boycott of Disney World by 
the Southern Baptists is not, is that the Jewish boycott was successful.

	I am sure that his inferiority complex is one of the few things about him 
that is based in fact.

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:13 PDT 1996
Article: 59833 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racist Education 2: The Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:52:11 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4vq3sb$n2s@news.enter.net>
References: <4vq22a$5pq@tom.amherst.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp95.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   jaklein@unix.amherst.edu (Josh Klein) writes:
>  Ursus Major (ursus_m@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>  
>  
>  > Why don't you post the whole Protocols? Henry Ford certainly thought
>  > they were authentic. They were serialized in his newspaper. Put them
>  > up and let the reader decide how fake they are.

>  How come there's a new group of nimrods on this group every time I pop over
>  for a visit?  The Protocols are already available on the Web and are 
>  available in book form in several languages.

	I got my copy from the IHR publishing company, the Noontide Press.  
Perhaps they still sell it.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:14 PDT 1996
Article: 59836 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 25 Aug 1996 17:50:16 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4vq3oo$n2s@news.enter.net>
References: <840930312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4vl5it$hv2@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" 
writes:
>  >         You have stated that the ADL made a statement.  Either they made that 
>  > statement or they did not.  It would have been very easy, had the statement
>  >  really 
>  > been made, for you to provide it.  You evasions prove only that you knew of 
no 
>  > such statement by the ADL when you annouced that such a statement was 
>  > made.  You have refused to provide even  a single reference to that 
statement.  > You have not even come close.  The conclusion is inescapable:
>  
>  > 
>  >         You are lying again.
>  
>  You love that phrase, don't you.

	Because it is true.  You havew been caught so many times that, wer it 
not for Giwer, you would be the most notorious liar who posts here.

> Check out my other post and read what I
>  said you kosher half-wit. Why do so many people believe the Jews are plotting
>  to take over the world when half of them are fucking illiterate.

	I read it.  There was no statement from the ADL indicating that they 
believed 20% of Americans were anti-Semites.  You have not even told us with 
any degree of accountibility where such a statgement could be found.


>  >         You made it up and were, for the manyish time, caught making up some 
>  > lie about the ADL because of your pathological hatred for Jews.
 
>  >         Why don't you admit the obvious  . . . .
  
>  It's not a pathological hatred of Jews, it's a hatred of slimeballs and
>  scumbags who seem to think that claiming they are descended from the tribe
>  of Israel gives them carte blanche to ride roughshod over the rest of mankind
>  and to smear as bigots anyone - like me - who has the audacity to challenge
>  their state sanctioned lies.

	Was this is another statement from the ADL?  If so you are getting in 
even deeper.

	How, Lyin' Al, can you "challenge" a lie that was never uttered.  If you 
know about such a statement please print it.  The ADL has no knowledge of it.  It 
deos not appear in the newspaper you claim printed it.  It does not appear in the 
ADL reports which you claim made the statement.

	A bigot, Lyin' Al, is a person who writes what you did above.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:15 PDT 1996
Article: 59873 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Date: 25 Aug 1996 03:24:47 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 32
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4v62nu$snv@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>  >       What you fail to state is that the citizens of Denmark who you wish 
>  >to deprive of their citizenship for reasons of race and ethnicity are not 
>  >"displaced persons."  They are citizens of Denmark.  
  
>  They may be formally "Danish" citizens but not Danes. It was an error to
>  grant them citizenship in the first place. I just want to correct that error.
>  I will even give them an apology on behalf on those that erronously granted
>  them citizenship.

	I am sure that, when you give them an apology they will no longer care 
about the deprivation of their basic human rights.  Perhaps you nazi forefathers 
should have done the same.


  
>  >You are not "helping 
>  >them" for where they "naturally belong" is Denmark.  What you are advocating 
>  >is a gross violation of basic human rights.  
  
>  It is certainly not a basic human right to hold a citizenship to a country
>  in which you do not belong ethnically.

	The rest of the world disagrees with you, nazi boy.  Citizenship is a basic 
human right.  You wish to deprive others of it.

	You are, basically, a nauseating human being.  I feel very sorry for your 
parents.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:16 PDT 1996
Article: 59874 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 25 Aug 1996 03:27:30 GMT
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4vi8vp$h6h@orion.cybercom.net>, Allan Matthews wrote:

>  >Ok, you're a racist fascist, not a Nazi.

>  Fascism is authoritarian too. I am not in favour dictatorship. Even the
>  word racist is not approbiate here. Racism is defined as a belief that 
>  one race has the right to rule another race. I certainly do not advocate 
>  something like that. I just want to have each race to live it's proper 
>  country. 

	A sample of nazi-boy's non-racism:  "Ayrans stand at the pinnacle of 
human evolution."

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:17 PDT 1996
Article: 59884 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken (for presenting phony number?)
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:29:25 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>
  > > the
>  > >   way you acted for the 550,000 holocaust survivors who emigrated in 
>  > >   Palestine after WW ll. Before friday. It's a bit long to build a whole
>  > >  text, not to convince you, but to make another faq.

>  >       Yes,  you lied about the dates of immigration and built a phony case on 
>  > it padding your numbers with a hand-waving statement about "illegal 
>  > immigration."  Remember your point was not the total immigration to Isreal since 
>  > WW II but the immigration *immediately after the war.*

>  
>   Yes or No: are you claiming that this article I found, Los Angeles
>   Times, january 23 1995 were Lemberger , the director of Amicha
>   and a specialist of this question claim that 300,000 holocaust survivors
>   lives in Israel today and that their estimated number in the early
>   50's was 550,000, are you claiming that I invented it? Yes or no?

	I am claiming that the survivors did not all move to Israel between 
1945 and 1950.  This was your claim.  It was made so that you could survivors 
twice.

>   And if yes, do you claim you got this newspaper and verify before
>   to call me a liar? If so I'll keep a track of that post and find
>   a way to get the photo of the text, I'm returning in New York
>   in september. Your point is to talk only about a part of the european
>   immigration for a short period and call me a liar because I'm
>   supposed to play on the confusion and include sepharadic immigration.
>   Sepharadic were count as 'holocaust survivors' by Lemberger?

	No you are supposed to count people once.  You count them twice 
because you doctor the the dates during which they immigrated to Israel just as you 
made several fallacious assumptions as to Jewish immigration to the United States.



>   So say it clearly: are you claiming that you've check in this newspaper
>   and didn't find anything, and that it's the reason you call me a liar?
>   If so, we'll havve some fun as soon I'll get a scanner

	You ahve presented no documentation that they immigrated to Israel 
between 1945-50.  If you want to use the number of 500,000 survivors going to 
Israel, you cannot count those in Europe in 1950.  You count both ways.

	In short, your numbers are inflated.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 15:59:18 PDT 1996
Article: 59886 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:36:32 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

  
>    An interesting aspect about it is that since there's two definitions
>   for ausrottung, the revisionist are just avoiding real issues when
>   they use the term 'wipe out' or eradicate because a very, very accurate
>   definition would say that it means only 'extermination' for the livings.
>   Then, despite some dictionnaries do not gives this specification, the revisionist
>   who claim that Himmler used ausrottung in a semi-figurative way in connection
>   to the expulsion of the Jews are supposed to lie.

	Times have passed you by.  The question Giwer raised is not a debate 
over the use of the word.  He has stated that the tape of the speech is a fabrication 
by the CIA/DoD.

	I suggest that you either tell Giwer he is wrong or join him in the proposed 
experiment to test his theory.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Sun Aug 25 18:23:50 PDT 1996
Article: 59897 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Krieberg, the boy nazi, Repeats His Nonsense
Date: 25 Aug 1996 21:12:55 GMT
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4vf22o$5a0@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:


>  >       Which is a clear violation of their rights.

>    Which rights are you talking about? If they have some legal rights these
>  will be abolished immediately.

	Just like your heros did with the Jews, nazi boy.



>    Here is the program. Please point out exactly where the use of vigilantes 
>  are mentioned: 
  
>  3. A special corps made up of volunteers from the police and the
>  military will be created for the purpose of fighting unrest or the
>  like in connection with carrying out the plan. 

	i.e vigilantes.  Thank you for playing.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 07:21:50 PDT 1996
Article: 59979 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 26 Aug 1996 04:49:33 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	Of course I would invite someone with vast library resources to find
>  not only the newspaper account of this speech being given but also the
>  editorial commentary upon it.  That would indicate how it was taken to
>  mean by the people who heard the speech.  

	Don't be sillier than you have to be, Matty poo.

	You can read the speeches (actually there were two) for yourself.  A 
transcript of both was entered into evidence at the Nuremberg Trials as document 
1919 PS.

	One person who was in a good position to determine what they meant to 
the nazis who heard them was Albert Speer.  He wrote:

	"At a Gauleiter conference in Posen in October 1943, Heinrich Himmler 
promised the top leadership of the Party that by the end of that year all Jews would 
be destroyed down to the last man.  And he polemicized against people who 
wanted the to make exceptions for a wide variety of reasons."  Infiltration, page 6.

	He further cites other such statements by Himmler on January 28, 1994, 
May 5, 1944, and June 21, 1944.  According to Speer:

	"One cannot assume that Himmler could have given his two Posen 
speeches on October 4 and 6, 1943, with their disclosures about the annihilation of 
the Jews without Hitler's express approval.  Nor can one believe that the generals 
convening in Posen and Sonthofen between January and June [1944] could have 
been allowed to learn these facts without Hitler's consent.  If I as minister of 
armaments output at a Gauleiter meeting, then such information, which went 
against all rules of secrecy, had to be approved by Hitler.  Even Goebbels had to 
submit to these restrcitions.  Bormann supervised the adherence to these guidelines 
in every Gau by way of his subordinates, for instance, the Gau leaders and district 
leaders, or the Gau industrial councillors.  He would never have failed to make 
Hitler aware of unreported disclosures -- especially if they had been made by his 
greatest rival in the power struggle, his intimate friend Himmler."  (ibid, page 272)

	Speer considers the speeches genuine.  You do not.

	It is an easy matter to determine who is right.

	You have asserted that the tapes of the Posen speech are forgeries.  
You have been given an opportunity to test your thesis at, if you are correct, the 
cost of Nizkor.

	You are the one who is refusing to test your theories.

	Your lack of integrity is obvious to all.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 07:21:51 PDT 1996
Article: 59981 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gibberish about the unidentified speaker on The Himmler tape
Date: 26 Aug 1996 05:16:33 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	I originally came across this "tape" in this conference as I described
>  it.  You are advised to look at the record to see for yourself.
>  Perhaps some day you will find the time to post the chain of evidence
>  that traces it to him as the speaker.  

	You are incorrect.  As usual.  The question is not "chain of evidence" 
(a "legal" concept which seems to be of your invention for it is unknown to the 
law)  or any other of endless stock of red herring.  The question is whether 
Himmler is speaking.

	You stepped up to the plate and announced that the tape is a forgery. 

	It is possible to have the tape analysed and have your position 
confirmed at Nizkor's cost if you are correct.

	Why don't you just admit that you had no basis of all for your claim?

	Do you enjoy having your arrogant dishonesty placed on display?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 07:21:52 PDT 1996
Article: 59984 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers:  jewish economic boycotts are OK
Date: 26 Aug 1996 05:28:12 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  >  
>  >>  Holohuggers claim that jewish economic boycotts are OK.  They claim
>  that
>  >>  jewish boycotts are no different than Baptist boycotts or Greenpeace
>  >>  boycotts.
>  
>  >	What's the difference.
>  
>  >  
>  >>  It's just so happens, though, that jewish-money power is far more
>  powerful
>  >>  and cohesive than any other group.  The influence and cohesion of any
>  >>  other group pales in comparison to the power of the jews.
  
>  >	In other words , in your opinion, it evil becasue they it better.

>  Yale, good and bad are meaningful judgments only in relation to the
>  effects jewish money-power and media control have on the particular race
>  subjected to them. Without a doubt they are harmful to Whites. The jewish
>  media and the jewish money-power which backs it espouse anti-White
>  propaganda, values, and policies, including race-mixing, third world
>  immigration, and multiculturalism. The jewish media establishment also
>  attacks as immoral any and all attempts by Whites to protect their gene
>  pool from racial pollution, which is the only way a race may prevent its
>  own self-genocide by race-mixing. 

	A lot of words to express a simple idea.  You do not like Jewish 
boycotts because the work.  Jews are, in your opinion, not permitted to express 
their opinions because when those ideas are placed in the marketplace of ideas, 
they win.



	Face it.  You are not arguing against "Jewish power," but the right to 
express their ideas.  Although you howl about "thought crimes" you are openly 
advocating shutting people up because they have ideas different from your own.




	Unfortunately the First Amendment applies to Jews, just as it does to 
other Americans.  You seem to have a problem with that.

	--YFE	


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 16:29:43 PDT 1996
Article: 60167 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Krieberg, the boy nazi, Repeats His Nonsense
Date: 26 Aug 1996 04:19:28 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) makes a fool of himself again:

>  >>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  >>  In article <4vf22o$5a0@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>  >>  3. A special corps made up of volunteers from the police and the
>  >>  military will be created for the purpose of fighting unrest or the
>  >>  like in connection with carrying out the plan. 
  
>  >	i.e vigilantes.  Thank you for playing.
  
>  	To the babytalking selfproclaimed attorney, that makes the US Special
>  Forces members vigilantes.  But then no one ever said you were very
>  bright but maybe that does make you an attorney.  

	Matty poo, apparently thinks that the Special Forces has been used to 
enforce civil law.  Can he tell us when and where?  No.  He can't because it has 
never happened.

	For those of you not familiar with U.S. the Posse Comitatus Act 
generally prohibits the use of the military to enforce civil law.  While there are some 
exceptions, the plan that nazi boy suggested is definitely against American law.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 22:35:41 PDT 1996
Article: 60229 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:45:37 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	But I will point out that if I harrass every holohuggers service
>  provider until they have to find another one and make harrassing phone
>  calls to everyone of their family members I can find then we are
>  equal.  

	No one has "harrassed" your service provider.

	No one has made any "harrassing" telephone calls to you father.

  	You have, on the other hand:

	Made repetitious posts in violation of your service agreements.

	Made threats of violence and extra-legal "penalties.

	Attempted extortion by means of threats.

	Made death threats.

	It's about time you took responsibility for your criminal acts.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 22:35:42 PDT 1996
Article: 60233 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Yankee Question
Date: 27 Aug 1996 02:23:26 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   kmcvay@nizkor.org (Ken McVay OBC) writes:

>  Tell us, oh Noble Aryan Scholar, where all those decorated
>  German (Jewish) veterans got their WW I decorations?
  
>  Go ahead - we'll wait.
>  (But we sure won't hold our breath, because you haven't a
>  clue.)

	Even better: tell us how Hitler came by his decorations.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Mon Aug 26 22:35:43 PDT 1996
Article: 60236 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken
Date: 27 Aug 1996 02:57:56 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  > 	Sorry.  You are still providing phony numbers.
  
>    The problem Yale, is that you disclaim my sources in a too much
>   generalistic way. Let say that in 1 month 1/2 I'm comming with this picture. 
Then
>   you will say: well, with your records Beaulieu, is was normal to think that you
>   lied. However, if you claim: I've look your reference, and you lie!

	I have checked several of your references and you mispresented 
them.  One example is Hilberg.  You claim that he figures show that the bulk of 
Soviet Jews were evacuated.  You failed to report the cavaets he put on his 
statements.  He states specifically that the evacuations were from the *eastern* 
portions of the territory invaded by the Germans.  Altogether he estimates that 
only about 1,500,000 Jews were able to flee or be evacuated.  But he also adds 
a caution which you omit.  Specifically he writes: "These figures are not an 
accurate indication of the number of Jews who succeeded in getting away, for 
many of the victims fled only a short distance and -- overtaken by the German 
Army -- drifted back into the towns." ("The Descruction of the European Jews" 
1961 edition; page 192).  Moreover you omit his statement "By 
October-November, 1941, the largest concentrations of Jews had already been 
left behind; in the Eastern Ukraine and beyond the White Russian areas around 
Smolensk [the areas which you cite for evacuations] the Jewish communities 
were smaller and more widely dispersed." (ibid.; page 191).

	In other words the complete statements from the sources you cite do 
not support your thesis.

>   In your case however, you prefer to be carefull and 'lie by omission' or 
otherwise to
>   claim something in a way too keep a minimum of reputation. This is why you 
havn't the
>   balls to claim: _I've check_ and you lied.

	I just did.  See above.


> One objective observer could see that the 
>   method of guys like Curtis and you is to ask for references, even when they 
were already
>   given several times in the past (for any topic), but to disclaim it as 'lies' when 
a guy give
>   it, but without taking the risk to state _I've check_. 

	Checking takes time.  Not all of the books you cited are in my library 
or the local library.  Hilberg's book is.  When I checked it, the statements quote 
above demonstrate that you were quoting selectively.  Moreover the complete 
text flatly contradicts your assertions.

	This was also the case when I checked as to Jewish immigration 
under the Refugee Act.  You invented numbers to put that immigration at about 
1,000,000 by counting all refugees admitted as being Jews and fudging (there is 
no other word for it) the figure further by adding in "illegal" immigration of several 
hundred thousand.  The actual Jewish refugee immigration to the United States 
(and records *were* kept) was about 70,000.

	I repeat.  Your number are basically so distorted that they bear no 
relation to reality.

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 07:31:27 PDT 1996
Article: 60246 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mailbombingmeister
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:32:22 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	You said it to me.  I can not change what you said.  

	But you will try anyway.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 07:31:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60249 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:29:43 GMT
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>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

>   I just want to rehabilitate the truth about nazism that is all.

	When why do lie about the crimes they committed?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 07:31:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60254 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:58:10 GMT
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 25 Aug 1996 21:36:32 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

  
>  >	Times have passed you by.  The question Giwer raised is not a debate 
>  >over the use of the word.  He has stated that the tape of the speech is a 
fabrication 
>  >by the CIA/DoD.
  
>  >	I suggest that you either tell Giwer he is wrong or join him in the 
proposed 
>  >experiment to test his theory.

	[Giwer's lies snipped]

	You are still ducking the question, Matty poo.

	When will you either accept McVay's (his real name) proposal to make a 
scientific test of you assertion or admit that you fabricated your charge?


	--YFE (my real initials)


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 07:31:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60255 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:18:52 GMT
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>  >        No.  I mean his numbers are phony.  That is, he fudges them to get the
>  >results he wants.  His use of the number of Jews who immigrated from Europe 
to
>  >Israel after WW II is a godd example.

>  >        JFB claimed that about 500,000 survivors immigrated to Israel in the
>  >period from 1945-50.  In fact, that number is the total number of suvivors -- to 
the
>  >present who found their way to Israel.  He arrived at this phony number by 
adding
>  >in Sephardic Jews who immigrated between 1948-50.  The dishonesty is that 
he
>  >then reports the number of survivors in Europe in 1950 and *adds* them to the
>  >number of survivors who went to Isreal. In other words, he counts them twice.
>    For the case of the polish Jews, a lot on the eastern part were evacuated
>   in 1940 by the soviets and I'll give my references about that next weekend.
>   I'll verify later but I don't think the Koehrer report gives anything else then
>   estimations based on the pre-German invasion for those territories, but we'll
>   take a look at that next weekend. My claim was only restricted to soviet jews,
>   jews who were both exterminated according to 'eizengruppen reports' and 
saved
>   for the bulk of them according to jewish sources in 1942-43.

	The sources you cite do not support your contention.  The evacuations, 
according to the sources you cite (as demonstrated by the full quotes from both 
Hilberg and Dawidowicz) indicate that evacuations were only attempted *after* 
the largest concentrations of Jews had been over-run.  Moreover you ignore 
Hilberg's statement that the Germans moved so fast that the evacuations were 
ineffective because they did not evacuate far enough.  Finally you ignore the total 
figures.  The best evidence is that approximately 4,000,000 Jews lived in the 
Soviet territories overrun by the Wehrmacht.  The simple logistics make an 
evacuation of over 3,000,000 Jews (and the Soviet evacuation policy was not 
limited to Jews) -- which is the figure required to make your numbers work -- 
impossible.  To assert that it occurred is laughable.

	Like virtually every person who has studied the matter, I believe that the 
best evidence as to how many Jews were killed by the Einsatzgruppen are the 
figures compiled by the Einsatzgruppen.


>  >        Likewise while there wer attempts to evacuate Jews from White Russia
>  >during Barbarossa, the bulk of the Jews were caught by the advancing 
German
>  >army.  According to Dawidowicz "Most Jews in the Baltics, White Russia, the
>  >Ukraine, Bessarabia, and the Crimea [the targets of the opening campaing of
>  >Barbarossa] were caught by the German invasion, which advanced too rapidly 
to
>  >permit large scale flight or sytematic evacuation." ("The War Against the 
Jews";
>  >page 499)

>  >        JFB claims there were few Jews left in cities such as Kiev or Minsk
>  >when the Germans arrived.  Clearly this is incorrect.  The Babi Yar murders in
>  >September 1941 killed 33,000 Jews.  Far more than JFB claims were left in the
>  >city.  Likewise JFB claims there were less than 5,000 Jews in Minsk when the 
nazi
>  >armies arrived.  Again the facts contradict this claim.  In August 1941 Himmler
>  >visited Minsk and, at his own request, saw a mass execution of Jews 
(Reitlinger;
>  >"The SS: Alibi of a Nation" page 183 of the 1989 paperback edition). 
Although
>  >Himmler did stay for the whole show, the series of executions, according to the
>  >Eisatzguppen accounts were far greater than 5,000 people.

>  >        In short, JFB's numbers cannot be substantiated.  They are figments of
>  >his imagination.
>   Yes or No: are you claiming that this article I found, Los Angeles
>   Times, january 23 1995 were Lemberger , the director of Amicha
>   and a specialist of this question claim that 300,000 holocaust survivors
>   lives in Israel today and that their estimated number in the early
>   50's was 550,000, are you claiming that I invented it? Yes or no?

	I checked with the Los Angeles Times.  The article you cite does not 
state that over 500,000 survivors of the Holocaust immigrated to Isreal in the 
period from 1945-1950.  If you are amending you original statement, please delete 
the number of Holocaust survivors in Europe in 1950 which you counted twice.

	So far I have checked Hilberg, Dawidowicz, and Reitlinger.  All 
disagree that the numbers you have presented represent the situation of the 
4,000,000 Jews caught in Barbarossa.  Either you are relying on someone else's 
interpretations or you are distorting what you read.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 12:59:47 PDT 1996
Article: 60320 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 21 Aug 1996 00:47:32 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:
>  Yale Edeiken writes, to J.F. Beaulieu:
  
>  > Which, as usual, you do not name.  Your sources for this are, at best, 
>  >fabrications.
  
>  At "best", Yale?  Pray tell, what would be "worst"?  Fight fair.


	The worst would be that they do not exist at all.  Given Beaulieu's track 
record (his statement, for example, that U.S. immigration authorities did not keep 
records by religion) this is not out of the question.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 12:59:48 PDT 1996
Article: 60323 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Slithery Nizkor/Keren stuff
Date: 21 Aug 1996 02:04:57 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Keith Morrison  writes:
>  Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>  >         Anatomy, of course, is a science as well.  Perhaps the
>  > self-proclaimed scientific genius will tell us how many bones there are in the
>  > human cranium.
  
>  And the pelvis, don't forget the pelvis.

	That one is too easy.  Even Moran can count that high.
  
>  Personally, I'm waiting for some self-proclaimed expert on anthropology
>  to get back to me on his claim that a hominid averaged seven feet high.
>  I wonder who that moron was?

	But Keith he saw it on television!  It has to be true!

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 12:59:49 PDT 1996
Article: 60324 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:49:48 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	It is completely impossible to harrass a person who does not read my
>  posts here and rejects my mail.  

>  	You need to learn some day.  

	Most people with any ethics -- I omit you from this list -- would consider 
sending a 5 meg mailbomb as soemthing more serious than harrassment.

	Was this one of the "unspecified penalties" you threatened in the past?

	You don't have to answer this question, of course.  Just take the Fifth 
and let the world draw it's own conclusions.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 16:03:22 PDT 1996
Article: 60373 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'kurt stele', Mathematical Genius... (Re: Life and Fall of Wlo
Date: 27 Aug 1996 03:40:46 GMT
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

  
>  Herr, Wankermeister, there is _hardly_ any mystery involved here. (Except
>  the one regarding how you manage to dress yourself in the morning!) The
>  death toll at Auschwitz was approximately 1.13 million people. The amount
>  of "ashes" produced by cremation is approximately 5-7 lbs.* (2.3-3.17 kg.)
>  of remains per person. That would imply somewhere around 2,825 to 3,955
>  tons (2,563 to 3,587 tonnes) of "ashes" (i.e. human remains). 
  
>  * Source: http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml

	Other sources give a wider range.  William R. Maples, a noted forensic 
anthropologist, states "For most adults the cremains weigh about 2.2 to 8.8 
pounds." ("Dead Men Do Tell Tales"  1994; page 138).  Moreover this figure is for 
adults.  Cremains of children would weigh less.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Tue Aug 27 20:57:33 PDT 1996
Article: 60399 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It really isn't famous
Date: 27 Aug 1996 13:21:56 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:
>  In article , qut@netcom.com (Skipp OBC) 
writes...
>  >In <321e76b5.51023457@news> pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) writes:

>  >! My understanding is that you know who rammed a spud on his petard and
>  >! told everyone look I'm a dictator. ;-)))
 
>  >Why do you hate Jews?
  
>      Why are you anonymously trolling this group?

	Why doesn't he find out what a "petard" is?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 00:18:01 PDT 1996
Article: 60458 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-anti-semitism
Date: 27 Aug 1996 02:34:59 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	And influence people but you are only influencing the lurkers and I
>  get one or two a week asking for more.  

	I am sure it for humor value.  What person of any intelligence can 
believe you.  You ask repreatedly for evidence but, when an offer is made to test 
your statements in a scientific manner, you cut and run.

	Specifically you have claimed that the tape of Himmler's speech as 
Posen was a forgery and, further, that the speaker can not be identified.  This is 
a crucial bit of evidence concerning the intentions of the nazis.  It was crucial 
evidence against the defendants at the Nuremberg trials.  Albert Speer, 
commenting on the speech, wrote that it was his belief that Hitler had specifically 
approved the disclosures.

	Destroy that evidence and you have destroyed an important bit of 
evidence proving that the nazi policy was to annihilate the Jews.

	You have been given an opportunity to do so.  To add insult to injury, 
Nizkor has offered to pay for the tests if you are correct.

	You have yet to answer the challenge.

	Your interest in evidence is non-existant.

	There might be some "lurkers' who believe you.  I suggest you 
supplement your income by peddling them deeds to the Brooklyn Bridge.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 07:32:04 PDT 1996
Article: 60470 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heiden seek
Date: 28 Aug 1996 00:57:13 GMT
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <4vq3oo$n2s@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. 
Edeiken" writes:

>  >         I read it.  There was no statement from the ADL indicating that they 
>  > believed 20% of Americans were anti-Semites.  You have not even told us 
with 
>  > any degree of accountibility where such a statgement could be found.
  
>  Oh yes there was, read it again.

	You must have beenm learning from Giwer.  You said it was in the 
1993 ADL Report.  I pointed out that it does not appear in either report.

	Your response was that it was a report *about* the ADL by persons 
unnamed.

	Your second statement was that it was reported in May in the New 
York Times.  I checked the New York Times for the month and year you 
suggested.

	Your response was that there was in the "Tulsa World" the previous 
November.  You also told us that someone named Nathaniel Weyl does not 
like the ADL and a former member of the U.S. Human Relations Commision 
did not like them either.  None of these constitutes a statement from the  ADL.
Tired of running down your red herrings I checked the Tulsa World only to the 
point of discovering that they are so small they have no Washington bureau 
and utilize the wire services for their national newsfeeds.  No such story has 
been carried by the AP, Reuters, or the New York Times services.

	In short, Lyin' Al, you have yet to produce a single citation to the ADL 
ever made the charge that 20% of American are anti-Semites.  Moreover, the 
American news services are unaware that such a charge was ever made.

	You ahve one last chance: produce such a statement from the ADL 
or this will be added to the fabrications (such as: Christine Jeffries was fired from 
her teaching job because of ADL pressure) that you seem to delight in retelling.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 07:32:04 PDT 1996
Article: 60476 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism"
Date: 28 Aug 1996 00:37:07 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
  
>  	"Anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism"?

  	
>  	Yup. This is one of the Jewish community's many absurd proposals.
>  

	No, l'il tommy.  Lying about Jews becasue you hate them is 
anti-Semitism.  You, to take one case, are a prime example of that behavior.

	You  lie about Jews.  Not "Zionists." Not "Israel."  Jews.

	Case in point:  you decided you wished to criticize those who object to 
municipalities putting up Christmas displays in contradiction of what has come to 
be recognized as the meaning of the First Amendment.  It was not sufficient for 
you to make your point you had to invent something harsh and dishonest about 
the Jews. You took a lawsuit where the KKK sued for the right to erect three 
sectarian crosses on public property and, entirely ignoring the facts, claimed that a 
"Jewish group" had brought the action to ban the display of Christian symbols 
while, at the same time claiming that the Menorah was not a religious symbol.  You 
lied.

	That lie had nothing to do with the policies of the state of Israel or the 
philosophy of Zionism.  It was a lie based in nothing more than your hatred of 
Jews.

	Second case in point.  After their discovery the Dead Seas Scrolls were 
placed in a museum under the supervision of a group known as the "International 
Team."  Jews were specifically excluded from that group or, even, from studying 
the contents of the Scrolls.  The "International Team" was dominated by Catholic 
priests, most connected with the Dominican order.  From its formation in 1954 until 
its abolition in 1990, the majority of the members were Catholic priests.  There was 
never a single Jewish member of the team.  Dispite this clear history you invented 
the lie that "the Jews" (That was your description.  Not "Zionists." Not Israelis. 
But "the Jews.") kept the scrolls secret.  You even put that lie into the mouth of a 
dead scholar who wrote that Jews were exluded from examination of the scrolls.  
His successor specirfically called you a liar in writing.

	That lie had nothing to do with the polcies of the state of Israel or the 
philosphy of Zionism.  It was a lie based in nothing more than your hatred of Jews.

	You now attempt to cover your bigotry with another lie.  That you are 
only being called an anti-Semite becasue of your opposition to Israel.  That does 
not change the truth.  Two truths that you ahven't got the courage to challenge:

	You are a liar.

	You are an anti-Semite.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 11:24:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60573 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Revisionist" Math: 1,2,3, Many
Date: 28 Aug 1996 01:44:31 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 42
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

	JFB has repeately claimed that his numbers as the numbers of survivors 
of the Holocaust show that the claims about the number of Jews murdered.  
One of JFB's major method consists of determining the *total* number of survivors 
who eventually immigrated to the United States and Israel and adds to that the 
number of Jews counted by the various refugee agencies in 1950.  There are minor 
variations to this such as claim (based on a misrepresentation of the statistics kept 
by the U.S. Immigration Service) that more Jews were admitted as refugees than 
were counted and simply inventing massive "illegal immigration" to make the 
numbers he needs.  He can do by a vague use of the dates of immigration.

	How does this work?  Watch.

	I knew a survivor of the Holocaust.  She lived on the north side of 
Chicago and her son was a member of my study group in law school (we met in the 
right field bleachers of Wrigley Field).  I never knew what happened to her in the 
camps.  I never asked.  There was a tatoo on her arm which told me all any person 
needed to know.

	After surviving the camps she ended up in one of the "displaced person" 
camps that dotted Europe in the decade after WW II.  While there she met and 
married her husband.  They were, of couse, under the jurisdiction of the refugee 
board and counted as such.

	Count to this point using the JFB method: 2 Holocaust survivors.

	The couple wanted to immigrate to the United States but, sue to the 
restrictive polices they could not obtain two valid visas.  About 1950, she became 
pregnant and, as she did not want her child born in Europe, the couple immigrated 
to Israel.  Her son was born in 1952.

	Count to this point using the JFB method: 4 Holocaust survivors

	In 1952, after a prolonged controversy, the rules concerning immigration 
to the U.S. were relaxed and, in 1955, the couple and their son immigrated to the 
United States as refugees.

	Final count using the JFB method: 7 Holocaust survivors

	JFB uses this method for a simple reason.  It proves what he wants it to 
prove.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 11:24:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 28 Aug 1996 01:00:30 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <5005ne$7gc@news.enter.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp26.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  In article <4voh72$cmm@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>  >       A sample of nazi-boy's non-racism:  "Ayrans stand at the pinnacle of 
>  >human evolution."

>   I have never uttered something like that in public. 

	It wsa posted under your name in another news group, alt.politics.white 
power.

	Was it a forgery?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 11:24:30 PDT 1996
Article: 60592 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Date: 28 Aug 1996 01:02:06 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <5005qe$7gc@news.enter.net>
References: <841072551snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>
>  > Jewish Ritual Murder by Arnold Leese
 
>  >                           CONTENTS 
 
>  >                         INTRODUCTION 
  
>  Leese published this pamphlet after being released from gaol. He was gaoled
>  in 1936 for effecting a public mischief after publishing allegations of ritual
>  murder against these poor, persecuted, POWERLESS people.

	Sounds like a history similar to your own.  Are you related?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 22:56:18 PDT 1996
Article: 60702 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: 28 Aug 1996 22:06:35 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <502ftb$nsq@news.enter.net>
References: <0DQ8oOev1SKB065yn@login.dknet.dk>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

>   But they were and are insignificant copycat parties. Nazism has never been 
>  in the political mainstream in the USA, Denmark or any other Non-German 
>  country. A few people in the USA and Denmark may have become fascinated 
by 
>  Hitler and his third Reich the same way that a few people in Denmark and the 
>  USA did become fascinated by Mao Tse Tung and the Chinese cultural 
>  revolution.
>  >       Wrong.  There were several million members of the America First 
>  >movement -- a nazi front organization.

	Kreiberg:
  
>   Did the America First movement want to abolish the American constitution 
>  and make the USA into a dictatorship. If not, you do not have the right to
>  call them nazis.

	First, of course, your definition of what is and what isn't a nazi, is silly.  
Especially since you have attempted to cover the basic agenda with which you 
agree by calling the current nazi movement, the National Alliance, "American 
patriots."


	Yes.  The America First movement was a nazi movement.  They were 
paid by the nazis.  They followed nazi philosphy particularly the "leader" principle 
as espoused by Hitler.  Morevoer it was financed in part by nazi Germany.

	There was was quite a good book written contemporaneously with that 
movement "Undercover" by John Roy Carlson.  He infiltrated the movement and 
his reports are both accurate and devastating.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 22:56:22 PDT 1996
Article: 60703 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Number Of Children Murdered (Re: Evil Holocaust Revisionism)
Date: 28 Aug 1996 22:13:30 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <502gaa$nsq@news.enter.net>
References: <501105$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp41.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

>  	He told me he did wetwork for the Mossad.  
  
>  	What does that make him in your pea brain?  

	Given your track record, it makes him someone who is being misquoted.

	For example: Mike Stein wrote that Jews who keep kashrut could eat 
potatoes during Passover.  You later stated that he had said that potatoes were 
part of the ritual Passover meal.

	I have no idea what AG told you.  I will, however, not take your 
statement as to what he said at face value.  As Crash Davis said to Annie Savoy: 
"Never fuck with a winning streak,"

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 22:56:23 PDT 1996
Article: 60704 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers:  jewish economic boycotts are OK
Date: 28 Aug 1996 21:57:17 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <502fbt$nsq@news.enter.net>
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>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:


  YFE wrote:

!   >A lot of words to express a simple idea.  You do not like Jewish 
!>  >boycotts because the work.  Jews are, in your opinion, not permitted to
!>  express 
!>  >their opinions because when those ideas are placed in the marketplace of
!>  ideas, 
!>  >they win.
  
>  Exactly. I do not like them precisely because they work to further the
>  jewish agenda

	Now that we have cut through the welter of words and determined that 
your basic position is that Jews do not have the same rights as other people to 
publish newspapaers, write and publich their opinions, protest about matters of 
public interest, advocate their positions publically, and use the weapons of 
democracy to advance their positions, what other basic rights do you wish to 
deprive me of:

	My right to vote?

	My right to run for or hold  public office?

	The right to be secure in my home?

	The right practice my profession?

	My Citizenship?

	Don't be bashful.  Just come right out and tell us how you wish to 
emulate your nazi heros.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Wed Aug 28 22:56:24 PDT 1996
Article: 60716 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Wieder mit dem
Date: 29 Aug 1996 03:52:13 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <50345d$slf@news.enter.net>
References: <4vtgmu$e9k@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm7-7.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

 
>  > 	You can read the speeches (actually there were two) for yourself.  A 
>  > transcript of both was entered into evidence at the Nuremberg Trials as 
document 
>  > 1919 PS.
 
>  > 	One person who was in a good position to determine what they 
meant to 
>  > the nazis who heard them was Albert Speer.  He wrote:
  
>    Speer claimed at Nuremberg that he wasn't aware about an extermination 
policy.
>    Since Speer is a credible source for you, this mean simply that a post-war
>    claim from him is based either on the Numremberg documentation and the 
'con-
>    fessions' that were generated there, either by the atmosphere of the time
>    which placed the gas chamber story as a dogma. Since Speer is not 
suppose to
>    have ear about it from Hitler or Himmler, than a post-war opinion in his case
>    hasn't any further autority than the average german.

	Speer knew both Hitler and Himmler, not from books but from 
intimate and personal contact.  He also had a long period of time in when he 
was confined in a very small space -- his cell -- to think about what what he had 
done and what he had witnessed.  His opinion obviously carries far more weight 
than that of the "average German."

	"Inlfiltration" was written at a time when his only real concern was 
what history would say about him and what he would be saying to St. Peter.  
His book (and I'll bet you have never read it) is clear that he knew what was 
going on.

	I have, as well, read Speer's testimony at Nuremberg (going for the 
perfecta, I 'll bet as well that you have not).  The main charge against Speer 
was not the extermination of teh Jews but the use of slave labor.  His testimony, 
in which he attempted to justify his conduct was hardly favorable to either Hitler 
or Himmler.  He charged that Himmler was was running the camps with the 
purpose of exterminating the inmates while he was trying to preserve them as 
workers for his armaments industry.  Nor does he leave Hitler out of the 
equation.  He related several instances during his testimony when he 
complained directly to Hitler about Himmler's policies.  He left no doubt that 
Hitler agreed with Himmler.

	The justification that Speer presented at Nuremberg is identical to the 
theme of "Infiltration."  While there is no doubt that Speer --sometimes 
mendaciously -- attempted to mitigate his own culpability by blaming Himmler, his 
book was hardly a reversal of his testimony.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 29 00:56:39 PDT 1996
Article: 60731 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revision v. holohugging
Date: 28 Aug 1996 22:24:46 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <502gve$nsq@news.enter.net>
References: <500oaf$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:18:44 -0400, Alec Grynspan 

  
>  	I note the mailbombings have stopped.  

	To which our resident six-year-old asked.


>  	Whois Ken McVay?

	He's the person you mailbombed.  You did so after threatening his with 
unspecified extra-legal penalties if he didn't do what you wated.

	Are you  now telling us that you did not know who thevictim of your 
crimes was?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 29 00:56:41 PDT 1996
Article: 60744 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 28 Aug 1996 22:20:08 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <502gmo$nsq@news.enter.net>
References: <5014bb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp41.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>  On 27 Aug 1996 03:58:10 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>  >  
>  >>  >	Times have passed you by.  The question Giwer raised is not a debate 
>  >>  >over the use of the word.  He has stated that the tape of the speech is a 
>  >fabrication 
>  >>  >by the CIA/DoD.
>
>  >	You are still ducking the question, Matty poo.
>  
>  >	When will you either accept McVay's (his real name) proposal to make a 
>  >scientific test of you assertion or admit that you fabricated your charge?

	In response Matty poo stamped his widdle footsie and asked:

>  	Whois Ken McVay?

	He is the fellow who, in a single post srtipped the mask from your 
pretensions.

	He is the fellow who asked you to participate in a scientific examination 
to test your assertions.

	He is the fellow who gave you a chance to prove that a key piece of 
evidence as to the nazi policy about the Jews was, as you stated, a forgery.

	You are the guy who refuses even to answer.

	Now that the dramatis personae has been defined can we expect an 
answer to the proposal?  Or will you continue your impersonation of l'il tommy?

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Thu Aug 29 07:27:29 PDT 1996
Article: 60768 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who owns the Fed? Baron answers his critics
Date: 29 Aug 1996 04:15:03 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <5035g7$slf@news.enter.net>
References: <841070068snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm7-7.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

	The question was a simple one.

	Does a consortium of 8 banks with Jewsih names own the the Federal 
Reserve System.  Lyin' Al has claimed in the past that they do although he has 
recently modified this position to state that those banks do, in fact, own the Fed 
(although they are, again according to Lyin' Al) no longer controlled by Jews).

	Actaully, I found Lyin' Al's phamplet less the work of an "honest man" 
and more the work of a crank who by comparison makes those who believe that 
cancer can be cured with yogurt and eggplant almost respectable.  He has not 
learned the basic principle that it is best to start with a little research and present 
some facts rather than the opinions of cranks.  The slight factual content of his 
post show only that Lyin' Al was aware:

	1.  That the Federal Reserve System is not a single entity 
but is composed of 12 banks and a board of governors.

	2.  That those banks are owned by the "national" banks in the region 
in which they operate and the board of governors is appointed by the president.

	3.  That the charge that the Federal Reserve is owned by eight banks 
is a "fantasy."

	It should be noted that the post which began those thread was wrong 
and that Lyin' Al agreed with the main facts of that post.  He disagreed only with 
the statement that Jews owned those banks.

	The "Phamphlet" that Lyin' Al is selling is pathetic even by his low 
standards.  I would tell him not give up his day job but, apparently, this is his day 
job.

	--YFE 


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:43 PDT 1996
Article: 61005 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who owns the Fed? Baron answers his critics
Date: 30 Aug 1996 04:00:26 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <505p0q$grg@news.enter.net>
References: <841318193snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-26.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article <501r7a$4tc@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
>             libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu "william c anderson" writes:
  
>  > I don't know what to say about this, Al.  Nowhere in this long,
>  > disjointed screed did I find even a scintilla of evidence that the
>  > fed is owned by "eight banks with Jewish names."  Am I missing 
>  > something?
  
>  why not send an E-mail to comminc@fortnet.org and ask Colonel Roberts 
himself.
>  The banks are named in hisbook THE MOST SECRET SCIENCE. I've just 
got a mailing
>  off him today.

	But you are the one who repeated it here.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:44 PDT 1996
Article: 61011 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer's latest tactic.
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:34:08 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <505nfg$grg@news.enter.net>
References: <5043rn$ff2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-26.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>  >You tried Ken McVay - that failed.
  
>  >Then you tried me, after I mirrored a few copies of a message back to
>  >you.
  
>  	The mailbombs have ceased.

	Is that a promise. or just a statement that you haven't sent one lately.

  
>  	Whois Ken McVay?


	The guy you mailbombed.

	But while you are good at spamming you are not very good at answering 
questions.  For example:

	Have you checked a history book yet and discovered that, contrary to 
your assertion,  Washington's encampment at Valley Forge took place during the 
American Revolution?

	--YFE  



From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:45 PDT 1996
Article: 61015 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohuggers:  jewish economic boycotts are OK
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:14:20 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <505mac$grg@news.enter.net>
References: <503tdt$3vv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-26.enter.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:

>  >  YFE wrote:
  
>  A lot of words to express a simple idea.  You do not like Jewish 
>  boycotts because the work.  Jews are, in your opinion, not permitted
>  to  express their opinions because when those ideas are placed in the
>  marketplace of ideas, they win.



  
>  >>  Exactly. I do not like them precisely because they work to further the
>  >>  jewish agenda


  
>  >	Now that we have cut through the welter of words and determined
>  that 
>  >your basic position is that Jews do not have the same rights as other
>  people to 
>  >publish newspapaers, write and publich their opinions, protest about
>  matters of 
>  >public interest, advocate their positions publically, and use the weapons
>  of 
>  >democracy to advance their positions, what other basic rights do you wish
>  to 
>  >deprive me of:
  
>  >	My right to vote?
  
>  >	My right to run for or hold  public office?
  
>  >	The right to be secure in my home?
  
>  >	The right practice my profession?
  
>  >	My Citizenship?

>  >	Don't be bashful.  Just come right out and tell us how you wish to
  
>  >emulate your nazi heros.

  
>  Obviously jews have the legal right to boycott. What is being pointed out
>  is that jews use their money-power and media domination to further jewish
>  interests and values

	As does every other group including Southern Baptists and farm workers, 
who use boycotts.  But it is now well-settled that you object to Jews and Jewish 
groups using legal tools to  advance their position.

	Now try to answer my questions.  Which of my other basic rights do you 
wish to deprive me of becasue I disagree with your racist philosophy.

	--YFE



From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:45 PDT 1996
Article: 61017 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al Still Can't Substantiate His Lies
Date: 29 Aug 1996 21:50:01 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 55
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:

>  The "Times" is published in London. On May 8 and May 10 1993 were two 
small
>  reports about the ADL's involvement in the spy scam. This has been 
extensively
>  reported so please don't tell me you haven't heard of it.

	That is not a statement from the ADL that 20% of Americans are 
anti-Semites.


	I also pointed out:


>  >         Your response was that there was in the "Tulsa World" the previous 
>  > November.  You also told us that someone named Nathaniel Weyl does not 
>  > like the ADL and a former member of the U.S. Human Relations Commision 
>  > did not like them either.  None of these constitutes a statement from the  
ADL.
>  > Tired of running down your red herrings I checked the Tulsa World only to 
the 
>  > point of discovering that they are so small they have no Washington bureau 
>  > and utilize the wire services for their national newsfeeds.  No such story has 
>  > been carried by the AP, Reuters, or the New York Times services.
>  > 
>  >         In short, Lyin' Al, you have yet to produce a single citation to the
>  >  ADL 
>  > ever made the charge that 20% of American are anti-Semites.  Moreover, the 
>  > American news services are unaware that such a charge was ever made.
  
>  Check my other post. Check too the works of Alfred Lilienthal.


	That is not a statement from the ADL.

> The smears of
>  groups such as the ADL on ordinary Americans are so well documented that I
>   can only assume your request is frivolous.

	It is odd that it is so well documented that you cannot point to a single 
statement by the ADL.	
 
>  The United States Human Rights Commission's report on the ADL is 
reproduced
>  in full in CRYING WOLF by Laird Wilcox,

	The book by Laird Wilcox is not a statement from the ADL.

	You have been asked for a cite to something from the ADL.  You have 
filaed utterly to do so.

	There is only one conclusion.  You lied again.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:46 PDT 1996
Article: 61022 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:03:04 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
Lines: 154
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:

>    Mr Edeinken, impossible is not soviet, despite I judge your 4,000,000 figure
>   doubtious, but the evacuation started even before the German invasion.

	JFB resorts to one of his his usual strategies.  He decides on the 
number he wants and then, when evidence is presented that he is wrong, he just 
states that he does not believe the numbers.


  
>  >        Like virtually every person who has studied the matter, I believe that the
>  >best evidence as to how many Jews were killed by the Einsatzgruppen are 
the
>  >figures compiled by the Einsatzgruppen.
  
>    If they are authentic.

	JFB resorts to his second usual strategy.  Has he any reason for 
believing that the numbers in the Einsatzgruppen are not authentic?  No.  They 
just disagree with his numbers so he makes a statement based in nothing more 
than an opinion based on the need to deny his figures..

>   case, all we would need is to authentify the couple of reports that bears
>   a handwritten notification. A small fraction apparently, but this is possible
>   and the case could be prooven especially for the SS who didn't fall in the
>   hand of the soviets after the war, no cohercition could be make in their
>   cases. Unfortunatelly, this wasn't done.

	Nor was it needed.  You have claimed that the reports are not 
accurate.  The onus is upon you to present some evidence.  I'll wait for it.

>   Dawidowicz and all the others based their claim on the Einsatzgruppen 
reports
>   because they chose to trust the soviets and to accept them as genuine, and
>   also because it is their job to feed the post war propaganda.

	No.  They do so because there is no reason to discount them.

>  > According to Dawidowicz "Most Jews in the Baltics, White Russia, the
>  >Ukraine, Bessarabia, and the Crimea [the targets of the opening campaing of
>  >Barbarossa] were caught by the German invasion, which advanced too 
rapidly
>  >to permit large scale flight or sytematic evacuation." ("The War Against the
>  >Jews";page 499)
  
	JFB has no answer.

  
>  >         JFB claims there were few Jews left in cities such as Kiev or Minsk
>  > when the Germans arrived.  Clearly this is incorrect.  The Babi Yar murders in
>  > September 1941 killed 33,000 Jews.  Far more than JFB claims were left in 
the
  
>     Aaaaaaah! Babi Yar, those bodies that the German dug up an burned to 
remove
>    all the criminal traces, I remember, I was there also. It was a long job.
>    The odd was to erase any tank's wheel's traces since we were afraid about
>    air photos. But perhaps it wasn't necessary since no fuel was required.

	JFB has no answer.

>  >city.Likewise JFB claims there were less than 5,000 Jews in Minsk when the 
nazi
>  >armies arrived.  Again the facts contradict this claim.  In August 1941 Himmler
>  >visited Minsk and, at his own request, saw a mass execution of Jews
>  (Reitlinger;
>  > "The SS: Alibi of a Nation" page 183 of the 1989 paperback edition).
>  >Although
>  > Himmler did stay for the whole show, the series of executions, according to 
the
>  > Eisatzguppen accounts were far greater than 5,000 people.
  
>      Again, the question is open: the soviet records on such a matter are not
>   lighter than the Gestapo records.

	Again JFB, having no answer stats that the Eissatzgruppen reports 
were provided by the Soviets.  They weren't.  The Bristish found them.



 A SS who didn't fall in the hands of the soviets, a ss who
>   signed a document on a relevant page AND than I consider that it's enough
>   serious for an ultimate expertise, graphologic. I'm not saying that such
>   reports are necesserally falses in all the cases: I'm mefiant. For any normal
>   crime a scientific expertise is required, and I'm told there that for a
>   huge crime this wasn't done.

	Nor is it needed.  Please do not venture out of your depth.  For any 
normal crime goernment reports prepared at the time of the event are presumed 
valid.  If you do not believe them, then it is up to you to show they are not.  Not 
would it require a "graphologist."  Examiners of questioned documents are 
common.  If you really want to know I suggest you contact Richard Brunelle of 
Brunelle Laboratories in Arlington VA.  He charges a minimum of $2,500.00 a 
pop, but he is very good at his job.
  
>    Mr Edeiken like to play with words. Indeed, the way I remember it, and
>   I didn't read it a long time ago but 2 months ago, it was said that
>   300,000 Holocaust survivors lives in Israel today and that their estimated
>   number was 550,000 in the early fifties. Since most of them have now 60, 70
>   or 80 years old, Lamberger's claim make sense. Indeed, the article didn't say
>   1945-50.

	But you did.

>    No Mr Edeiken. I said once without checking in my books that a rough 
number
>  for the Jews who lived in the non-soviet part of Europe was about 1 million
>  in the early fifties. It was impossible back those days to lead an accurate
>  census because Jews were moving around from countries to countries, there
>  was a lot of displaced persons. However, if there's no way to know exactly
>  the number of Jews who lived in Europe in 1950, or 1953 if you want, but
>  there's an indirect way:


	There are also very direct ways.  The reports of the agencies that 
maintained the camps.  Those figures are quite available.

>   AJYB, quoted by Sanning (probably the annual Jewish Year Book), 1971 vol 
72
>  p 476: an exhaustive description country by country which gives 860,000
>  Jews in Europe in 1970, excluding Soviet Union. More than 180,000 
European
>  Jews immigrated in Israel between 1952-1970 also. Even if you want to 
consider
>  that 'the early fifties' in Lamberger's mind meant 1953, if we consider the
>  fact that Jews even back those days were assimilated to some extent and
>  hadn't a strong demographical growth, that USA, Canada and South America
>  received also Jewish immigrants from Europe after 1950 (or 1952-53 
whatsover)
>  So an estimation of about half a million Holocaust survivors in the early
>  fifties, based on Lamberger's claim, let say in 1952, in Israel, an estimation
>  of a million or even more Jews in Europe the same year is absolutelly not
>  a bad estimation. To that we should add the number of those who emigrated
>  in USA,Canada, Argentina and other countries  between 1945-1952, plus the
>  large number who emigrated illegally in USA during the war

	Note the fudge factors.  Note the assuptions.  Note the outright lie.  
Note that fact that several groups are counted twice.

	Your number are, and remain phony.  It is not really that hard to pick a 
year and determine how many refugees were in various places.  You do not.  
You take numbers from 1970 -- claim without reference that these figures are a 
good indication of the number in 1945 and add various fudge factors to make 
them come out according to your theories.

	You talk nonsense.  If you now beleive, as you state, that there was 
massive illegal immigration to the U.S. *during* WW II, you are crazy.  If you think 
that the U.S., Canada, and Isreal did not keep good statistics as to the number of 
Jews who entered those countries after 1950, you are just lying.  Most of these 
reports public.  Look them and come back when you have something honest to 
say.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:47 PDT 1996
Article: 61023 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:27:30 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article 
>             mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
>  > Irregardless, Al, the fact remains that Kristallnacht was a state
>  > sponsored pogrom against the Jews that resulted in 236 Jewish deaths 
and
>  > some 600 serious injuries. (cf. Read & Fisher, _Kristallnacht_; p.69.)

>  The claim of 236 deaths is a lie; I have seen the figures 91,96 & 97, and
>  would dispute even those.

	Since you have also claimed that Kristallnacht was not organized by 
the nazis but was a spontaneous event, your opinion has very little value.  You 
have lied about Kristallnacht in the past.

	--YFE

   


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:47 PDT 1996
Article: 61024 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lauck gets 4 years
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:30:03 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Alexander Baron  writes:
>  In article 
>             rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca "Rajiv K. Gandhi" writes:
>  
>  > Liar. Jews were placed into concentration camps, where they were tortured,
>  > experimented on, and murdered, specifically because they were Jewish.
>  
>  Not true. There were still Jews in Berlin in 1944. One of the reasons they
>  could be sent to Auschwitz was for smoking a cigarette in public. Do your
>  homework before you denounce me as a liar, arsehole.

	And when you do your research you will come to a simple conclusion:

	Al Baron is a liar.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:48 PDT 1996
Article: 61026 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Required Amount Of Zyklon (Re: I am still waiting)
Date: 30 Aug 1996 03:43:43 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

  
>  	The mail bombs have ceased.

>  	Whois Ken McVay?


	An hoenst fellow.

	Whois Matt Giwer?

	A fraud and a liar.

	Why don't you tell us again, Matty poo, about your interest in 
"evidence" and "science" so that you can be reminded, once more, how you 
ran away when you were asked to put one of your assertions to the test of 
those disciplines.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 08:39:49 PDT 1996
Article: 61044 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Speer
Date: 30 Aug 1996 09:47:46 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  >        Speer knew both Hitler and Himmler, not from books but from
>  >intimate and personal contact.  He also had a long period of time in when he
>  >was confined in a very small space -- his cell -- to think about what what he had
>  >done and what he had witnessed.  His opinion obviously carries far more weight
>  >than that of the "average German."
>  
>  >        "Inlfiltration" was written at a time when his only real concern was
>  >what history would say about him and what he would be saying to St. Peter.
>  >His book (and I'll bet you have never read it) is clear that he knew what was
>  >going on.
>  >
>  >        I have, as well, read Speer's testimony at Nuremberg (going for the
>  >perfecta, I 'll bet as well that you have not).  The main charge against Speer
>  >was not the extermination of teh Jews but the use of slave labor.  His testimony,
>  >in which he attempted to justify his conduct was hardly favorable to either Hitler
>  >or Himmler.  He charged that Himmler was was running the camps with the
>  >purpose of exterminating the inmates while he was trying to preserve them as
>  >workers for his armaments industry.  Nor does he leave Hitler out of the
>  >equation.  He related several instances during his testimony when he
>  >complained directly to Hitler about Himmler's policies.  He left no doubt that
>  >Hitler agreed with Himmler.
>  
>  
>    Another lie by omission. Firts you claimed that in this New York Times article
>   (23 january 1995) where Lamberger spoke there was no claim that about half
>   a million holocaust survivors immigrated in Israel between 1945-50. Indeed, it
>   was just claim that there was about half a million holocaust survivors there
>   in the early fifties, which is something completelly different obviously :-)

	At this point JFB you have descended into Giwerisms.  You have claimed 
that the number of survivors who immigrated to to Israel in the period from 1945-50 
was about 500,000.  You have now supported that allegation by referring to 
"something completely different obvious."

	Please JFB sign on with the Phillies.  They have the worst record in the 
league this year and, with your help with the record book, I am sure we can show 
that they were first place last week.


>   Second you accused me of misrepresenting Hilberg by quoting him selectivelly
>   while I quoted Reitlinger via Sanning (and it was explicitelly said).

	You neglect to point out that I quoted Reitlinger as well.  By the way I did 
the man the service of reading what he wrote and quoting him directly.  Why didn't 
you?

 Defini-
>   tivelly it is not your week Yale, despite in this case I think simply you made
>   an error. But now you claim to be an expert in that field (Speer) and that
>   he claim at Nuremberg that he was aware about an extermination policy:


	I'm not an "expert" on Speer.  I read one of his books and his testimony.  

  
>  >or Himmler.  He charged that Himmler was was running the camps with the
>  >purpose of exterminating the inmates while he was trying to preserve them as
>  >workers for his armaments industry.  Nor does he leave Hitler out of the


  
>    You doubt that I ever read Speer's book and also Speer's testimony at
>   Nuremberg. In the first case, I read fragments of his books 2 years ago,
>   mainly those related to Jews and what stroke me was that despite Speer was
>   in contact with Himmler and Hitler in the chapters I read he relied upon
>   Nuremberg documents mainly.

	Thank you for confirming my suspicions.


> Nowhere I remember to have see a statement like
>   'When Hitler explain me what happened to the Jews', or 'I was in conflict
>   with Himmler when he exposed to us the mass gassing of Jews', nothing of that
>   kind.

	But then you didn't read the book under discussion.	


> He used the same documents than Laqueur or Hilberg, and from such a
>   proeminent man, who would have, in your theory, first hand informations
>   rather than Nuremberg documents, this sound incredible. But not so much...

	As you say, you haven't read his books.

  
>     I didn't read Speer testimony directly, as I said, but I based my claim
>   on a book, 'Albert Speer, la fin d'un mythe' (Matthias Schmidt) who described
>   his testimony at Nuremberg.

	In other words, you don't know what you are talking about.


>    It is quite possible that due to the atmosphere at Nuremberg, and after,
>   he believed really the propaganda claim. The main elements of his testimony
>   were definitivelly that he wasn't aware about any hidden sense for 'deportation
>   to the East' and that he wasn't curious about it. As a specialist of Speer
>   Yale, you can't ignore that but you chose to selectivelly skip this big aspect
>   and to use a minor one, some interventions to get more food for the inmates
>   (I'm not even sure that it was for Auschwitz).

	The "big aspect" was what he was charged with: the use of slave labor. 
 That was the substance of his testimony.  He was *not* charged with the murder of 
Jews.  This line of argument is a bit like arguing that Al Capone could not have 
ordered the St. Valentine's Massacre because it was not mentioned at his trial for 
tax evasion.



  
>      There's still another possibility it's posssible to me that Speer didn't
>   believed the charges at Nuremberg

	Your evidence for this is?

	While we are dealing with your hot air speculations let us consider a few 
other "possibilities:"

	1.  There was no Albert Speer.  He proported existence is a Jewish plot.

	2.  The KGB forged his books.

	3.  "Wetwork" agents of the Mossad held a gun to his head and forced 
him to write what he did.

	4.  It's all a joke.  He wrote it as a "satire."

	5.  The world is flat.

	6.  Matt Giwer knows what he is talking about.

	Perhaps you can explain as well why the only possibility you did not 
consider is that Speer was telling the truth and used the documents he used to 
supplement his memory because he knew they were accurate.

>   In all the cases, Speer used Nuremberg records in the chapter which deal
>   with Jews, and he never claimed that he was aware about an extermination
>   policy.

	That simply is not accurate.

	If you wish to debate the book.  READ IT!

	If you wish to debate his testimony.  READ IT!

	If you wish to speculate.  GIVE ME SOME EVIDENCE!

	Your statements are nothing more than wishful thinking based -- as you 
admit -- on incomplete knowledge and your your pre-conceived notions.  It is really 
foolish to debate what Speer said when you do not know what the crimes were that 
he was charged with.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 14:12:54 PDT 1996
Article: 61073 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ~650,000 Polish Jews in ~1870 to ~3,250,000 in 1942?
Date: 30 Aug 1996 02:33:26 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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References: 
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>   qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC) writes:

>  ! The Jewish population statistics aren't clear because the European 
>  ! countries that did count Jews in their censuses, quit doing so in the 
>  ! 1940's, and their has *never* been a census specifying Jews in the USA as 
>  ! residents or immigrants.  This deliberate inaccuracy has been demanded by 
>  ! the organized Jewish community for unknown reasons since the beginning of 
>  ! the USA.  If malice is now suspected of the leadership of the Jewish 
>  ! community, it's their own fault for demanding obscuration of the extent 
>  ! of their own numbers.

	You are incorrect about the U.S.  Immigration statistics by religion were 
kept until the 1960's.  Refugee statistics by religion are still kept.  Religious 
persecution remains a reason for granting refugee status.  I have posted at least 
once the specific reports on Jewsih refugees admitted to the U.S. in the decade 
after WW II.  Reports were made both at the order of the president and to 
Congress.

 
>  ! The Polish census' of about 1870-80 counted 600-700,000 residents under 
>  ! the Jewish religion.  How did it grow to 3-3.5,000,000 in 1942, breeding 
>  ! and/or immigration?  That would be very fast breeding, wouldn't it?  Were 
>  ! the majority of the Jews in Poland of 1942 relatively recent immigrants 
>  ! from elsewhere? 

	A rather interesting assertion.  Have you ever looked at a map of 
Europe in 1870?  If you ahve one that shows Poland as a country with the same 
borders it had in 1942 (or 1939) pleace post it at once.  So would most historians.  
I would al;so be interested in learning about the Polish government who took such 
a census.  So would most historians.

>  Jews couldn't have increased that much.  The ~3,250,000 figure is a fake.

	So is your knowledge of Polish history.

	--YFE


From yawen@enter.net Fri Aug 30 21:02:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61157 of alt.revisionism
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: 30 Aug 1996 09:02:27 GMT
Organization: ENTER.NET
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>   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>  > Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, 
>  > October 4 and 6, 1943
>  > [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>  > Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
>  > Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
>  > p. 469]
>  > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
>  > race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
>  > race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
>  > clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
>  > it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
>  > Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
>  > vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
>  > has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
>  > what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
>  > 1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
>  > exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
>  > that is what has made us hard.  This is a page of glory in our history
>  > which has never been written and is never to be written.
 
>  > I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
>  > never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
>  > the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
>  > solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
>  > eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
>  > and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
>  > our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
>  > cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.

>    Here you mixed two speeches.  I'm not sure if there's a recording
>   of the 6 october speech, however, If so, for this one, I don't see
>   any possible ambiguity. For the 6 october speech, I've no hypothesis
>   except that the speech may be false.

	Fine.  Then prove it.  The challenge is on the table.  Giwer does not 
even have the guts to respond.


> In that case, I've not 10,000$, I
>   havn't even 1,000$ at the bank. Probably I'll have in a year or two.

	The cost of analysis is about $1,750.00.  This is not a lump sum.  The 
first $750.00 would be for the preliminary work which would indicate whether it 
was possible or not.  The cost of the actual analysis would be $1,000.00.


>   I remember 7 or 8 months ago how J. MOrris appeared so much self-confident
>   on his claims about crematories untill... someone decided to verify
>   and the what appeared to be a certanty due to the level of 'arrogance'
>   of Nizkor collapsed. I'm not 100% impress by McVay's challendge. If we talk
>   about the 6 october speech, not the 4 october, it is highly possible that
>   I'll have the money in a year or two. However, I want to check something
>   before:
  
>   -Voice recognition: how is it accurate?

>    I havn't any reference on that. Signature recognition is 99.99% accurate,
>    but I know also that the polygraph test is not recognized as suffisantly
>    accurate in court cases. You can't expect any one to take up this challendge 
>    if there's no way to know in advance if the accuracy is just 70%, especially
>    when we deal with the relevant part of the speech. Any reference?

	Voice analysis has been accepted as evidence in courts.  It has been 
used extensivley in telephone harrassment cases.
  
>   -Again, the 'ausrotten' excerp is not relevant to me, it is the 6
>    october speech that wake up my curiosity. Do you mean tha Nizkor would
>    accept an expertise from any laboratory? Not their single choice?



	Not from *any* laboratory -- from a laboratory mutually agreed upon.  I 
checked with one that was recommended by my local state police and the man I 
use for document analysis.  I am sure there are many others who know what they 
are doing.



  
>    I'm curious about the 6 october speech now. This one I would like
>    to know definitivelly what to think about it. I'm too poor actually,
>    but this one is more interesting than the other, and I hope I'll be
>    able to gather 5,000$ in a delay of 18 months.




	The total cost is about $1750US assuming that the analysis could be 
performed.



	If you are serious why not contact the CODOH, the IHR or Zundel?  All 
three make money from denying the Holocaust.  All three would make more if they 
could prove the speech a forgery.




	Since Nizkor would be paying if the speech was not that of Himmler's, 
perhaps you should ask yourself they have not jumped to Giwer's rescue.  Use 
some common sense for once.

	--YFE



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