The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/c/charbonneau.sylvia/1995/charbonneau.1295


From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sat Dec  2 15:10:14 PST 1995
Article: 9542 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: McVay & the O.B.C.
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <49meu2$fk2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 20:42:18 GMT
Lines: 30


KPhilby (kphilby@aol.com) writes:
> Mr. McVay,
>   I was wondering if you could tell me how many UPC symbols
> from 12 packs of Moosehead you had to send in to get the O.B.C.?
> I also need the address to send them to. I need to forward this
> information
> to "evil Beavis" so he will have something to show for his years of
> intensive study other than a dose of the clap and a certificate showing
> he completed the Food Service Technician course at the East
> Alabama Junior College. Thanks!


Nah, he just needed to keep going to the bingos to get his O.B.C.  After
all, the premier of that province resigned over a (get this, folks!) bingo
scandal.  Turns out that the New Democratic Party was ripping off the
disadvantaged by funnelling charity money away from the bingo revenues
into their own party coffers.  And these are the kinder, gentler social
democrats who work so hard for the common man and the oppressed workers
....BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!  Karl Marx must be rolling over in his grave.

Keep it up Ken.  Keep posting those unimportant three little letters after
your name.  It gives me the chuckles everytime.  

Hey, I just thought of something...  Ken McVay, O61.B12.C...Bingo!


Sylvie Charbonneau




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Dec  4 07:13:47 PST 1995
Article: 7087 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!msc.edu!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Garbage in my mailbox from White Weaklings
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:10:44 GMT
Lines: 27
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:9720 alt.politics.nationalism.white:7087

 (loyal-African@shingira.demon.co.uk) writes:
> All you suckers who post anonymously without return e-mail addresses are wimps.
> 
> Post publicly to the newsgroup and let's do battle for all the world to see.
> 
> Fascists and neo-nazis are displaying the most extreme form of cowardice I have 
> seen in my adult life.
> 
> Come on, let's throw down out in the open, you punks and losers.

Yeah, and I'm sure that "loyal-African" is the name that appears on your
birth certificate.  



--

Sylvie Charbonneau


"Trapped behind bars, prisoners of death
All hope is ours, we can't give up yet.
Ready to fight to get what we need,
Die on your feet, or live on your knees"
			
		- Yngwie J. Malmsteen's Rising Force, "Riot in the Dungeon"



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Dec  4 12:02:51 PST 1995
Article: 14962 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Eight questions for Milton Kleim (round 17)
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:00:34 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:9758 alt.politics.nationalism.white:7125 alt.revisionism:14962


You have entirely too much time on your hands, Ken.  Get off your butt,
get a real job (cruising the net as an anti-racist warrior doesn't count
either).   Only an idiot like you will keep asking the same questions over
and over and over.  Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe Milton
won't answer you because he thinks you're a contemptible little "shabbos
goy" and thus unworthy of his attention?  Nah, probably not...

Hey, you never answered my question Ken...  

Since you have "files" on all the racists on the net, can I see mine?


Sylvie Charbonneau

_____________________________________________________________________________
Call the National Alliance answering service.
 	Main office:	(304) 653-4600
	California:	(818) 725-3430
  	Florida:	(407) 275-6815
	Illinois:	(708) 818-4045
	Maryland:	(410) 813-4105
	Mississippi:	(601) 373-6290
	Nevada:		(702) 434-1994
	New Jersey:	(201) 697-1011
	New York:	(212) 388-2655
	North Carolina:	(919) 742-2438
	Ohio:		(216) 846-1045
	Ottawa:		(613) 834-7960
	Virginia:	(703) 715-6050  or (804) 673-7350
		
or check out the Web page at: http://www.natvan.com




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Dec  5 18:01:16 PST 1995
Article: 7263 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Garbage in my mailbox from White Weaklings
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   <49vdor$pfj@decaxp.harvard.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:09:58 GMT
Lines: 20
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:9888 alt.politics.nationalism.white:7263

Mark Staloff (staloff@scws31.harvard.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
> : Yeah, and I'm sure that "loyal-African" is the name that appears on your
> : birth certificate.  
> 
> Sylvie, I have to inquire why on Earth you are getting defensive on this 
> subject when you and Les have been so insistent upon the fact that you are 
> exactly who you say you are.  Hiding something, aren't we?


Nope, just exposing more liberal (and in this case, black) hypocrisy. 
Someone who condemns others for not using their real names, then uses an
alias himself strikes me as a hypocrite.  Don't you agree?

Sylvie Charbonneau






From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Dec 10 05:08:17 PST 1995
Article: 7591 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: My prejudice explained...
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4abpkb$gka@merlin.delphi.com> 
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 02:56:15 GMT
Lines: 40
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:10238 alt.politics.nationalism.white:7591

 (loyal-African@shingira.demon.co.uk) writes:
> 
>I don't agree with your belief "..that racism is not an issue of
black versus 
> white.  It is an issue of ignorant versus educated."  In my experience, some of 
> the worst racists have been very well educated people.
> 
> I would also disagree with your last sentence and I would say we don't need 
> negotiations for equality, there is nothing to negotiate.  Equality is a right 
> and is non-negotiable.

Free men aren't equal.  Equal men aren't free.

> To learn more about the African-American experience, talk to some real 
> live people (African-Americans) and befriend some, socialise with them, engage 
> in some activities with them, seek their opinions about their life experiences, 
> in short try to live a little of the African-American life, then and only then, 
> will you really understand the real meaning of racism as it exists in America 
> today.

Yeah, and you can learn first-hand about rape, torture, muggings,
beatings, etc... just like those deluded White folks who went to the
"Human Kindness Day" in the '70's.  Tom Altizer from Alexandria, VA  was
stabbed with an icepick, beaten with a baseball bat, breaking his arm at
the wrist.  After police rescued him, he commented to the Washington
Post: "I'm a pretty damn big defender of Black people...those people
didn't know who I was, or care.  All they knew is that I was White"

Another White man was blinded with an icepick.   Many White women there were
stripped and fondled.

Sounds like real human kindness to me.  And these were the people who were
pushing for equal rights for blacks.  I'd hate to see what they did to
enemies...

Sylvie Charbonneau


  



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Dec 17 23:35:26 PST 1995
Article: 8344 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Sylvie is civilized?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4abpkb$gka@merlin.delphi.com>   <4aem8g$s4b@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:00:48 GMT
Lines: 79
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11175 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8344

Steve Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> You missed the point, Ken.  These people that got mugged, beaten, stabbed
>> and assaulted were at this rally TO PROMOTE EQUAL RIGHTS FOR BLACKS!!! 
>> And this is how they were repaid.
>> 
>> Sylvie Charbonneau
> 
> And you see nothing wrong with people taking the law into their own hands
> whenever they disagree or dislike someone else? Is that what you call a
> "civilized" society?

How in the world did you come up with this cockamamie response to the
original post?  Read it again.  You can even move your lips when you read
it.  No one can see you.

> You get all upset at Waco or Ruby Ridge and yet you would sanction the
> government authorized destruction of millions of people based entirely on
> their looks, culture or race?

Back the truck up here.  When have I said that I would do that?

> What is the difference between you and a Muslim fanatic who would kill
> anyone who doesn't think like him? What about the Spanish Inquisition or
> the Salem witch trials? Do you see anything wrong with them?

Both were the result of religion gone awry.  Tell me what either of these
incidents have to do with the beatings and stabbings at the "Human
Kindness Day" in Washington in the 1970's.  I believe that was what we
were talking about.

> I know Les doesn't believe in God and so I will assume you don't either.

You make many assumptions.  That's your first mistake.

> How would you be treated in a Spanish Inquisition type society? You would
> be tortured and killed if you didn't believe. And if you were really
> considered bad, they might convert you to save your soul (doing you such a
> favor) and then kill you anyway.

Since you brought it up originally...

Kinda like what they did in Waco and Ruby Ridge, right?  Except the
religion they were pushing was the government.  Is there a difference?

> If the whole wide world was white, blond haired, and blue eyed then
> something else like beliefs or status in society would be the reason for
> hate.

No, if the whole wide world was white,it would be a pretty nifty place.

 Find out what it is that you really hate in our world. Saying you
> really hate Jews, blacks, hispanics and the like is not acceptable.

Who are you to tell me what is acceptable for me and mine?  I don't recall
any god granting you the power to be the master of my future.  
 
If you
> say Jews are conspirators and are corrupted, then hate conspiracies and
> corruption. If you hate blacks because you believe they are stupid,
> aggressive or the like, then hate stupidity or aggression in all people.
> Because anything you hate in the "others" is found in you and within your
> race too.

What utter tripe.  Were you dropped as a child?


Sylvie Charbonneau

"What do you mean "I hurt your feelings"?
I didn't know you had any feelings.
What do you mean "I'm not kind"?
I'm just not your kind...
		Megadeth, "Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?"



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sun Dec 17 23:45:18 PST 1995
Article: 11175 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Sylvie is civilized?
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <4abpkb$gka@merlin.delphi.com>   <4aem8g$s4b@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:00:48 GMT
Lines: 79
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11175 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8344

Steve Garza (sgarza@csubak.edu) writes:
> In article , bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> You missed the point, Ken.  These people that got mugged, beaten, stabbed
>> and assaulted were at this rally TO PROMOTE EQUAL RIGHTS FOR BLACKS!!! 
>> And this is how they were repaid.
>> 
>> Sylvie Charbonneau
> 
> And you see nothing wrong with people taking the law into their own hands
> whenever they disagree or dislike someone else? Is that what you call a
> "civilized" society?

How in the world did you come up with this cockamamie response to the
original post?  Read it again.  You can even move your lips when you read
it.  No one can see you.

> You get all upset at Waco or Ruby Ridge and yet you would sanction the
> government authorized destruction of millions of people based entirely on
> their looks, culture or race?

Back the truck up here.  When have I said that I would do that?

> What is the difference between you and a Muslim fanatic who would kill
> anyone who doesn't think like him? What about the Spanish Inquisition or
> the Salem witch trials? Do you see anything wrong with them?

Both were the result of religion gone awry.  Tell me what either of these
incidents have to do with the beatings and stabbings at the "Human
Kindness Day" in Washington in the 1970's.  I believe that was what we
were talking about.

> I know Les doesn't believe in God and so I will assume you don't either.

You make many assumptions.  That's your first mistake.

> How would you be treated in a Spanish Inquisition type society? You would
> be tortured and killed if you didn't believe. And if you were really
> considered bad, they might convert you to save your soul (doing you such a
> favor) and then kill you anyway.

Since you brought it up originally...

Kinda like what they did in Waco and Ruby Ridge, right?  Except the
religion they were pushing was the government.  Is there a difference?

> If the whole wide world was white, blond haired, and blue eyed then
> something else like beliefs or status in society would be the reason for
> hate.

No, if the whole wide world was white,it would be a pretty nifty place.

 Find out what it is that you really hate in our world. Saying you
> really hate Jews, blacks, hispanics and the like is not acceptable.

Who are you to tell me what is acceptable for me and mine?  I don't recall
any god granting you the power to be the master of my future.  
 
If you
> say Jews are conspirators and are corrupted, then hate conspiracies and
> corruption. If you hate blacks because you believe they are stupid,
> aggressive or the like, then hate stupidity or aggression in all people.
> Because anything you hate in the "others" is found in you and within your
> race too.

What utter tripe.  Were you dropped as a child?


Sylvie Charbonneau

"What do you mean "I hurt your feelings"?
I didn't know you had any feelings.
What do you mean "I'm not kind"?
I'm just not your kind...
		Megadeth, "Peace Sells...But Who's Buying?"



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Dec 18 09:57:26 PST 1995
Article: 11183 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Million Man March jokes
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 03:58:24 GMT
Lines: 20



Q: Why was the MMM such a success?

A: Because only three people had to take the day off from work.


Q:  What was the only thing missing at the MMM?

A:  An auctioneer!



    (laughter)

Thank you, thank you...


Sylvie Charbonneau



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Tue Dec 19 02:01:09 PST 1995
Article: 8448 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 01:21:58 GMT
Lines: 93
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.discrimination:39742 alt.politics.white-power:11290 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8448 soc.culture.african.american:109115 alt.activism:15486


It's been an interesting year for murders in Canada's National capital.  
The Ottawa Sun published a listing of the victims, how they died, the
names of those charged and the circumstances of the death.  But they
failed to indicate the races of the assailants and victims (in most
cases).  But by watching the evening news and viewing photos as the cases
were developing, I was able to piece most of them together.  Here are the
stats:


Feb 24: David O'Donnell shot in head and chest while he was breaking into
an apartment.  Charged is James Morrow (I think he deserves a medal). 
Assume the victim is white.  No big loss.

Feb 25: Richard Parker, beaten to death by his roommate Curtis Green (no
race mentionned).  Parker was an alcoholic who used to live at the Union
Mission for men (homeless transient).  No big loss.

April 13 - Juliet Cuenco, bludgeoned to death by her husband, Eugenio
Arturo Cuenco.  Both are Filipino.

May 25 - Wilson Kasonde, 10 and his sister Margaret Kasonde, 8.  Shot dead
by their father Robert Kasonde (black).  News reports say that he killed
them because he didn't want the mother to have custody of the children
(they were in the process of divorcing).  Nice family values, there.

Aug 10: James Marchand, beaten to death.  17 year old was charged with
second degree murder.  We'll never know the race of the perpetrator.

Aug 24: Danny Jones, shot in the back during a robbery.  Charged were
Martin Pinkus (Middle Eastern origin) and Wyman Hadley (scummy white).

Sept 7: Carrie Dolores Mancuso, asphyxiated.  She was a prostitute, case
remains unsolved.  No big loss.

Oct 8:  Warren Blackwood(black) knifed in stomach.  Charged is Ian Patrick
Collins (black).  Police say he was angry at his girlfriend and took it
out on the nearest target.  

Oct 26:  Sylvain Leduc, 17, asphyxiated after being tortured, beaten and
burned with a hot curling iron.  Eight people were charged, all members of
the black street gang "Ace Crew".  Charged were: one 17 year old girl,
four boys - 2 aged 17, one 16 and one 15 - and adults Mark Anthony
Williams, Fiona Bayne and Diane Crawford.  Police are on a nationwide
manhunt for John Richardson, 24 and Keith Edwards, 25.  In addition to
murdering Leduc, they also tortured three young girls with a hot curling
iron.  One of the girls had the iron inserted into her vagina and left
there while she screamed and begged for mercy.  She was released from
hospital this week.

Dec 8:  Marinus Getkate, shot in head with a rifle.  His wife, Lillian
Getkate was charged with first degree murder.  No race reported, no
pictures ever seen of either victim or accused.  Why do you think that is?


So let's tally up the score here, shall we?

Charged: 1 filipino
	 1 arab
	 12 blacks
	 1 white

We have a few murders where we don't know the race of the accused:
Getkate, the prostitute Mancuso where police don't know the killer, and
James Marchand.

Now, granted, there were twenty murders this year.  If you figure that
non-whites are about 15 percent of the population, they would be
responsible for about 15 percent of the murders.  But they are responsible
for 7 out of 20 murders, and possibly more.  That's at least 35%. Does this
tell anyone anything?


Sylvie Charbonneau

Call the National Alliance answering service.
 	Main office:	(304) 653-4600
	California:	(818) 725-3430
  	Florida:	(407) 275-6815
	Illinois:	(708) 818-4045
	Maryland:	(410) 813-4105
	Mississippi:	(601) 373-6290
	Nevada:		(702) 434-1994
	New Jersey:	(201) 697-1011
	New York:	(212) 388-2655
	North Carolina:	(919) 742-2438
	Ohio:		(216) 846-1045
	Ottawa:		(613) 834-7960
	Virginia:	(703) 715-6050  or (804) 673-7350
		
or check out the Web page at: http://www.natvan.com




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 10:19:01 PST 1995
Article: 8652 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:56:57 GMT
Lines: 62
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11562 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8652 alt.discrimination:39877 alt.activism:15773 soc.culture.african.american:109221

Mike Murphy (umsmurph@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
> : It's been an interesting year for murders in Canada's National capital.  
> : The Ottawa Sun published a listing of the victims, how they died, the
> : names of those charged and the circumstances of the death.  But they
> : failed to indicate the races of the assailants and victims (in most
> : cases).  But by watching the evening news and viewing photos as the cases
> : were developing, I was able to piece most of them together.  Here are the
> : stats:
> 
> [Descriptions of the victims/causes of death/circumstances/accused snipped]
> 
> : Now, granted, there were twenty murders this year.  If you figure that
> : non-whites are about 15 percent of the population, they would be
> : responsible for about 15 percent of the murders.  But they are responsible
> : for 7 out of 20 murders, and possibly more.  That's at least 35%. Does this
> : tell anyone anything?
> 
> Sylvie,
> 
> I have several problems with this post.  First, you are very sloppy.  
> Your sample size is far too small.

What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.

  You are using accusations/arrests, 
> rather than convictions as your determining factor.  You dismiss a death 
> of someone whom you consider to be undesirable as "no great loss."

It doesn't matter whether or not I comment on the death.  They're still dead.
  But 

> at the same time, you point out that the accused is also an undesirable 
> (read "minority").  It would seem to me that you would be happy at this 
> fortuitous turn of events.  This juxtaposition betrays your slant and 
> renders any other judgements that you may make to be untrustworthy.  
> Rather than present hard numbers to describe the "non-white" population, 
> you pose an arbitrary number and then use it to postulate a meaningless 
> percentage.  I advise you to go to a few statistics classes (you might 
> want to try a community college), learn the methodology of survey 
> samples, sample sizes, and how to interpret correlations.  Having done 
> that, go to a county court house (or perhaps gain access to official 
> statsistics on the web) and meticulously gather evidence.  Then check to 
> make sure that your evidence isn't biased.  Post your results.  Listen 
> and respond to criticism.  Argue from knowledge, rather than prejudice.

I am arguing with the facts that are made available to me.  In Canada, we
are not allowed to keep statistics on the race of perpetrators of crime. 
This is fact.  In order to get an accurate view of crime (specifically,
the murder rate in Ottawa for 1995) I used the information available to me
through observation, and through the media.  I would LOVE for the police
to provide me with accurate statistics on race and criminality.  But you
don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders committed
in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent approximately 15%
of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  White racism?  I
don't think so...

Sylvie Charbonneau




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 10:19:02 PST 1995
Article: 8653 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b62r6$9p9@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:00:53 GMT
Lines: 27
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11563 alt.discrimination:39878 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8653 soc.culture.african.american:109222 alt.activism:15774

Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) writes:
> In article , 
> bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:
> 
>>May 25 - Wilson Kasonde, 10 and his sister Margaret Kasonde, 8.  Shot dead
>>by their father Robert Kasonde (black).  News reports say that he killed
>>them because he didn't want the mother to have custody of the children
>>(they were in the process of divorcing).  Nice family values, there.
> 
> Yes, sad... much like the Susan Smith case, where she murdered
> both of her children in the hope she'd get her man back.
> White, not that it matters... of course, she blamed a Black
> when the police interviewed her... Nice family values, nice
> moral values.

She blamed a black because it's believable.
 
> You never did say whether or not your name was Nicole..

I don't recall you ever asking me.  But for the record, no my name is not
Nicole.  My name is...

Sylvie Charbonneau.






From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 10:29:23 PST 1995
Article: 11562 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:56:57 GMT
Lines: 62
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11562 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8652 alt.discrimination:39877 alt.activism:15773 soc.culture.african.american:109221

Mike Murphy (umsmurph@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
> : It's been an interesting year for murders in Canada's National capital.  
> : The Ottawa Sun published a listing of the victims, how they died, the
> : names of those charged and the circumstances of the death.  But they
> : failed to indicate the races of the assailants and victims (in most
> : cases).  But by watching the evening news and viewing photos as the cases
> : were developing, I was able to piece most of them together.  Here are the
> : stats:
> 
> [Descriptions of the victims/causes of death/circumstances/accused snipped]
> 
> : Now, granted, there were twenty murders this year.  If you figure that
> : non-whites are about 15 percent of the population, they would be
> : responsible for about 15 percent of the murders.  But they are responsible
> : for 7 out of 20 murders, and possibly more.  That's at least 35%. Does this
> : tell anyone anything?
> 
> Sylvie,
> 
> I have several problems with this post.  First, you are very sloppy.  
> Your sample size is far too small.

What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.

  You are using accusations/arrests, 
> rather than convictions as your determining factor.  You dismiss a death 
> of someone whom you consider to be undesirable as "no great loss."

It doesn't matter whether or not I comment on the death.  They're still dead.
  But 

> at the same time, you point out that the accused is also an undesirable 
> (read "minority").  It would seem to me that you would be happy at this 
> fortuitous turn of events.  This juxtaposition betrays your slant and 
> renders any other judgements that you may make to be untrustworthy.  
> Rather than present hard numbers to describe the "non-white" population, 
> you pose an arbitrary number and then use it to postulate a meaningless 
> percentage.  I advise you to go to a few statistics classes (you might 
> want to try a community college), learn the methodology of survey 
> samples, sample sizes, and how to interpret correlations.  Having done 
> that, go to a county court house (or perhaps gain access to official 
> statsistics on the web) and meticulously gather evidence.  Then check to 
> make sure that your evidence isn't biased.  Post your results.  Listen 
> and respond to criticism.  Argue from knowledge, rather than prejudice.

I am arguing with the facts that are made available to me.  In Canada, we
are not allowed to keep statistics on the race of perpetrators of crime. 
This is fact.  In order to get an accurate view of crime (specifically,
the murder rate in Ottawa for 1995) I used the information available to me
through observation, and through the media.  I would LOVE for the police
to provide me with accurate statistics on race and criminality.  But you
don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders committed
in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent approximately 15%
of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  White racism?  I
don't think so...

Sylvie Charbonneau




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 10:29:24 PST 1995
Article: 11563 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b62r6$9p9@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:00:53 GMT
Lines: 27
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11563 alt.discrimination:39878 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8653 soc.culture.african.american:109222 alt.activism:15774

Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) writes:
> In article , 
> bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:
> 
>>May 25 - Wilson Kasonde, 10 and his sister Margaret Kasonde, 8.  Shot dead
>>by their father Robert Kasonde (black).  News reports say that he killed
>>them because he didn't want the mother to have custody of the children
>>(they were in the process of divorcing).  Nice family values, there.
> 
> Yes, sad... much like the Susan Smith case, where she murdered
> both of her children in the hope she'd get her man back.
> White, not that it matters... of course, she blamed a Black
> when the police interviewed her... Nice family values, nice
> moral values.

She blamed a black because it's believable.
 
> You never did say whether or not your name was Nicole..

I don't recall you ever asking me.  But for the record, no my name is not
Nicole.  My name is...

Sylvie Charbonneau.






From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 12:29:39 PST 1995
Article: 15773 of alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:56:57 GMT
Lines: 62
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11562 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8652 alt.discrimination:39877 alt.activism:15773 soc.culture.african.american:109221

Mike Murphy (umsmurph@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
> 
> : It's been an interesting year for murders in Canada's National capital.  
> : The Ottawa Sun published a listing of the victims, how they died, the
> : names of those charged and the circumstances of the death.  But they
> : failed to indicate the races of the assailants and victims (in most
> : cases).  But by watching the evening news and viewing photos as the cases
> : were developing, I was able to piece most of them together.  Here are the
> : stats:
> 
> [Descriptions of the victims/causes of death/circumstances/accused snipped]
> 
> : Now, granted, there were twenty murders this year.  If you figure that
> : non-whites are about 15 percent of the population, they would be
> : responsible for about 15 percent of the murders.  But they are responsible
> : for 7 out of 20 murders, and possibly more.  That's at least 35%. Does this
> : tell anyone anything?
> 
> Sylvie,
> 
> I have several problems with this post.  First, you are very sloppy.  
> Your sample size is far too small.

What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.

  You are using accusations/arrests, 
> rather than convictions as your determining factor.  You dismiss a death 
> of someone whom you consider to be undesirable as "no great loss."

It doesn't matter whether or not I comment on the death.  They're still dead.
  But 

> at the same time, you point out that the accused is also an undesirable 
> (read "minority").  It would seem to me that you would be happy at this 
> fortuitous turn of events.  This juxtaposition betrays your slant and 
> renders any other judgements that you may make to be untrustworthy.  
> Rather than present hard numbers to describe the "non-white" population, 
> you pose an arbitrary number and then use it to postulate a meaningless 
> percentage.  I advise you to go to a few statistics classes (you might 
> want to try a community college), learn the methodology of survey 
> samples, sample sizes, and how to interpret correlations.  Having done 
> that, go to a county court house (or perhaps gain access to official 
> statsistics on the web) and meticulously gather evidence.  Then check to 
> make sure that your evidence isn't biased.  Post your results.  Listen 
> and respond to criticism.  Argue from knowledge, rather than prejudice.

I am arguing with the facts that are made available to me.  In Canada, we
are not allowed to keep statistics on the race of perpetrators of crime. 
This is fact.  In order to get an accurate view of crime (specifically,
the murder rate in Ottawa for 1995) I used the information available to me
through observation, and through the media.  I would LOVE for the police
to provide me with accurate statistics on race and criminality.  But you
don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders committed
in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent approximately 15%
of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  White racism?  I
don't think so...

Sylvie Charbonneau




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 12:29:41 PST 1995
Article: 15774 of alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b62r6$9p9@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:00:53 GMT
Lines: 27
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11563 alt.discrimination:39878 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8653 soc.culture.african.american:109222 alt.activism:15774

Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) writes:
> In article , 
> bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:
> 
>>May 25 - Wilson Kasonde, 10 and his sister Margaret Kasonde, 8.  Shot dead
>>by their father Robert Kasonde (black).  News reports say that he killed
>>them because he didn't want the mother to have custody of the children
>>(they were in the process of divorcing).  Nice family values, there.
> 
> Yes, sad... much like the Susan Smith case, where she murdered
> both of her children in the hope she'd get her man back.
> White, not that it matters... of course, she blamed a Black
> when the police interviewed her... Nice family values, nice
> moral values.

She blamed a black because it's believable.
 
> You never did say whether or not your name was Nicole..

I don't recall you ever asking me.  But for the record, no my name is not
Nicole.  My name is...

Sylvie Charbonneau.






From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 18:30:58 PST 1995
Article: 8726 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:16:41 GMT
Lines: 41
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11646 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8726 alt.discrimination:39923 alt.activism:15866 soc.culture.african.american:109255

Andy Walton (atticus@mindspring.com) writes:
> In article , bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
> (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:
> 
>   :What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
>   :just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.
> 
> You could try a larger sample than Ottowa.

I'll say it just one more time: In Canada, we are not allowed to keep
stats on the race of the criminal.  So it would be impossible to get an
accurate statistic on other cities, simply because I don't have access to
the information I do here (news reports, photos, etc...)  I'm talking
about Ottawa because that is the information I have.

> And 20 murders/year is this massive crime wave y'all keep bitching about?
> Cripes, man, that's pretty damn good for any city Ottowa's size. In this
> or any century.
 
>   :But you don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders 
>   :committed in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent 
>   :approximately 15% of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  
> 
> Your complete lack of understanding of statistics. 20 instances is a
> meaningless sample. I could point to dozens of small towns where the
> murderers last year were 100% white or 100% black--because there was only
> one murder in town. To extrapolate that into some larger conclusion is an
> exercise in idiocy. 

These dozens of small towns where the murderers are 100% White are
probably composed of 100% Whites (or damn near to it).  In my hometown, there
was one black family, one mexican family and one indian family.  That's it.
 
> Just because you can express a number as a percentage doesn't mean that it
> means anything.

Does it automatically mean that it means nothing?

Sylvie Charbonneau




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Dec 20 18:34:28 PST 1995
Article: 11647 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: All Serial Killers are White, why is that??
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b9pj0$2nq@news.duke.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:21:54 GMT
Lines: 37

Rob Carscadden (carscadd@pps.duke.edu) writes:
> Ya ever wonder why are serial killers are white guys?
> 
> Son-of-Sam, 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^
David Berkowitz.  Sounds real White to me.

> Jeff (how the do you spell it) Dalhmer, Manson, yada yada 

 yada...
> 
> Now according to our residental knucklehead racist (excuse the redundancy 
> here) criminal behavior is determined by race, ergo, white guys must be 
> nuts. It's scary what you can come up with if you follow these boneheads 
> logic (again excuse the slaughter of that word, as it is complete out of 
> context when it is applied to these clowns). 

How about those Tutsis and Hutus?  How about the Yahweh ben Yahweh cult? 
How about Wayne Williams?  How about that black guy in South Africa who
killed 24 people (or was it 42?)  How about Winnie Mandela and her soccer
team?  Yep, they all sound REAL White to me...


Sylvie Charbonneau

--

Sylvie Charbonneau


"Trapped behind bars, prisoners of death
All hope is ours, we can't give up yet.
Ready to fight to get what we need,
Die on your feet, or live on your knees"
			
		- Yngwie J. Malmsteen's Rising Force, "Riot in the Dungeon"



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 10:27:53 PST 1995
Article: 8825 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism,alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  <4ba3ai$ch0@news.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:28:50 GMT
Lines: 97
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11788 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8825 soc.culture.african.american:109291 alt.activism:16032 alt.discrimination:39965

Mike Murphy (umsmurph@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

(big snip for brevity's sake)
 
> : What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
> : just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.
> 
> Absolutely not.  Instead, I would exhort you to follow my advise and use 
> a larger *SAMPLE SIZE*.  I would also exhort you to read some books on 
> statistical analysis.  For instance, perhaps race *is* a factor in some 
> (or all, or *none*) of the cases that you cite.  However, it is equally 
> as likely that *level of education*, or *level of income*, or the *phase 
> of the moon* is/are a factor(s) as well.

Explain to me how level of education or level of income will make a
difference in the beating death of Sylvain Leduc by the black street gang
"Ace Crew".  Are you implying that if we put gave these scumbags more
welfare money, they wouldn't go around selling crack, recruiting (forcing)
young girls into prostitution and murdering wantonly?  (all of these
things are part of the arrest record)
 
> :   You are using accusations/arrests, 
> : > rather than convictions as your determining factor.  You dismiss a death 
> : > of someone whom you consider to be undesirable as "no great loss."
> 
> : It doesn't matter whether or not I comment on the death.  They're still dead.
> 
> Actually it *does* matter.  A good statiscal analysis does not color the 
> data used with *biased* commentary.  It takes the raw data, gives the 
> salient points (dispassionately) and then works to find ANY AND ALL 
> CORRELATIONS.

Yeah, but you're missing the point.  A disproportionate number of the
murderers are non-White.  How do you explain it?

> 
> : I am arguing with the facts that are made available to me.  In Canada, we
> : are not allowed to keep statistics on the race of perpetrators of crime. 
> : This is fact.  In order to get an accurate view of crime (specifically,
> : the murder rate in Ottawa for 1995) I used the information available to me
> : through observation, and through the media.  I would LOVE for the police
> : to provide me with accurate statistics on race and criminality.  But you
> : don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders committed
> : in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent approximately 15%
> : of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  White racism?  I
> : don't think so...
> 
> Seeing as I am not a Canadian citizen, I cannot comment on whether or not 
> *you* have access to the statistics.  However, I can say that all police 
> departments *do* keep track of who is victimized by violent crime, as 
> well as who the perpetrators are.

In Canada,it is illegal and unconstitutional to keep track of crime by
race.  If you don't believe me, ask any cop, lawyer, or any other Canadian
on the net.  You will see that I am correct.

  In the USA, we do have a "freedom of 
> information act" which allows a free press (or anyone else with the time 
> and resources) to gain access to the statistics and do a statiscal 
> analysis.

We have much the same thing here, but the government decides whether or
not it will allow you to conduct your search.  It can seal records at will.

 I have seen several done which conclude that the majority of 
> murders in the USA are not random acts of violence perpetrated by a 
> vicious "predator class".  Rather, most murder victims have had some kind 
> of relationship with their killers (family, friend, enemy).  Furthermore, 
> race is generally *not* as strong a factor in the USA as is education, or 
> income, except to say that the overwhelming majority of murders are 
> perpetrated against another person *within the same race*.  Now where I 
> live (a large midwestern city, with a fairly evenly divided population of 
> caucasians/minorities) the overwhelming majority of murders committed, 
> are committed by minorities against other minorities.  However, this is 
> due more to factors outside of race (i.e. economics, "passion", organized 
> criminal activity).  But before you jump on that last one (criminal 
> activity), know that seventy years ago in this same city, the statistics 
> were the same in relative terms, but it was the *caucasian (Mafia)* 
> "gangs" doing the killing/getting killed.  By the way, the same is true 
> in just about every city in the USA (historically).  I suggest that you 
> do a cursory examination of the historical facts before you delve into 
> matters beyond your statisical abilities.

You seem to forget that we are not living 70 years ago.  Sure the mafia
killed itself off then.  But as a rule, it only killed off other mafioso. 
Whereas black/hispanic/asian gangs tend to blow away anybody that happens
to be in their line of fire, and don't seem to care.  We had a case this
week where an asian restaurant was sprayed with bullets while full of
innocent diners.  The one who the shots were intended for was only grazed
in the leg.  Fortunately, no one was killed.  But what about next time?


Sylvie Charbonneau





From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 10:27:54 PST 1995
Article: 8826 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  <4battl$16ig@saba.info.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:41:18 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11789 alt.discrimination:39966 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8826 soc.culture.african.american:109292 alt.activism:16033

Abdou Kama (akama@ucla.edu) writes:
> bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:

Big snip for brevity's sake...
 
> 4. Arbitrary differentiating criteria (I bet more 80% of your subjects were
> from poor family background, however in your stupid eyes the white vs
> non-white issue is the main differentiating factor.)

Here's a few more facts for you, from the Ottawa Sun, December 17, page 19-20.

"Cuenco was a committed feminist and an expert of multiculturalism in
education who worked for the federal Heritage department.  A former
executive director of the United Council of Filipino Associations, she had
two children".

Now it seems to me that even on only her income, that family was doing
pretty good.  But I digress...

"The children's father (Kasonde) 45, a Canada Post computer programmer,
was charged with two counts of first-degree murder.  He had just split
with the children's mother Jane in 1993."

Again, no lack of money here...

"Getkate, (victim)originally from Lethbridge, Alta., received an industrial
psychology degree from the University of Guelph and was hired by the RCMP
in 1994 to streamline the force's promotion system."

Again, no lack of cash or education here...


Sylvie Charbonneau



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 10:34:55 PST 1995
Article: 11754 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b7404$gun@decaxp.harvard.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 15:03:29 GMT
Lines: 28

Mark Staloff (staloff@scws45.harvard.edu) writes:
> 20 murders, over the course of the year, in a major city?  I wouldn't be 
> so upset, Sylvie... I wonder how you would have dealt with lily-white 18th 
> Century London.


Here's a listing of murders in Ottawa for the past ten years.  Notice the
increase:

1995 - 20 to date
1994 - 12
1993 - 8
1992 - 14
1991 - 8
1990 - 9
1989 - 17
1988 - 10
1987 - 10
1986 - 4
1985 - 14

Source: The Ottawa Sun, December 17, page 29

Sylvie Charbonneau


 



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 10:34:56 PST 1995
Article: 11771 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Bounty re Crusader@National.Alliance
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b867h$n8p@news1.halcyon.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:04:00 GMT
Lines: 119

Ben Lincoln (synner@chinook.halcyon.com) writes:
> 	Hey. Some worthless bastard fake-mailed me some racist crap from 
> the fake address "Crusader@National.Alliance"... Under the conditions 
> below, s/he now owes me US$7,413,700 (White supremacist spam nets the 
> maximum archival fee, you see).
> 	Information leading to my collection of the full archival fee 
> will net the informant US$10,000. 

Actually Ben, you'll have to collect from the anti-racists and the loony
left.  See the post below for further information.

Article 58017 of ncf.general:
Xref: freenet.carleton.ca ncf.general:32015
Newsgroups: ncf.general
Path: freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ak917
From: ak917@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (James Cohen)
Subject: Re: American Nazi propaganda
Message-ID: 
Sender: ak917@freenet2.carleton.ca (James Cohen)
Reply-To: ak917@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (James Cohen)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References: <44jetm$kkg@noc.tor.hookup.net> <44m7f9$h50@noc.tor.hookup.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:36:42 GMT
Lines: 77

 (baxter@hookup.net) writes:
> baxter@hookup.net writes:
>>  dreilley@pinc.com (David Reilley) writes:
>>  
>>  >  Is anyone wlse receiving private e-mail of a long white supremist essay callet 
>>  >  the long march?  
>>  
>>  I got the same message, although the return address on mine was
>>  Crusader@national.alliance, still bogus but different from yours.
> 
> And then this morning I ran across the following article, cross-posted from
> soc.culture.jewish. Apparently, it was an anti-racist group that sent the
> email spam, in hopes of getting the white supremacists' net access 
> revoked. I'm still inclined to shoot the messenger, no matter how well-
> intentioned they were. At any rate, here's the details:
> ========================================================
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
> From: hsc@zippy.ho.att.com (Harvey S. Cohen)
> Subject: National Alliance hate email is HOAX
> Message-ID: 
> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs
> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 16:40:24 GMT
> 
> Here is a message from the AT&T gatekeeper. To summarize: The email is a HOAX.
> DO NOT RESPOND WITH EMAIL TO ANYONE.
> ----------------Begin forwarded message---------------------------------
> A large number of AT&T folks have gotten an email message from
> "Crusader@national-alliance.org" titled "The Long March." What follows is
> an explanation of what happened, and what you can do to make the messages
> go away sooner.
> 
> That message has a forged address...please do not reply to it. You'll only
> end up wasting time composing a message, which will sit in a spool
> directory on the gateways for a few days until it times out, at which time
> you'll get a bounce message saying that the host national-alliance.org (or
> national-alliance, if you responded to the first batch of messages) cannot
> be found. (I see that 41 people have already fallen victim to the trap and
> replied.) I've just spoken to the technical contact for Netgate
> Communications, the Internet Service Provider (ISP) for the National
> Alliance. Yes, the group does exist, and the content of the message that
> you received is from their material, but the National Alliance did not
> send the spam.
> 
> There have been two originating addresses of the spams so far: a site in
> France, and San Francisco State University. It seems that the spammed
> message is being sent by a group of people who are bitterly opposed to
> these National Alliance folks, and are trying to get the National Alliance
> pulled off of the net by making as many people as they can reach get mad
> and mail/spam/hack/whatever the National Alliance and their ISP. I'm told
> that the National Alliance's mailbox is getting something like 10MB of mail
> every hour. Many, many calls and mail messages have been sent to their ISP
> complaining of the spam.
> 
> The National Alliance is going to have their domain deactivated by the
> InterNIC at least until this blows over. Again, the mail you received did
> not come from them: it was sent by someone who is trying to get you mad
> enough at the National Alliance to complain to them and/or their ISP. I'd
> consider it a denial-of-service attack. 
> 
> It is possible that these spams will continue until the domain is yanked,
> and possibly shortly thereafter. Please do not take any action if you
> receive subsequent messages: just delete them, and the whole thing will go
> away much faster. You might want to consider using a filter on your mailbox
> (such as Z-mail's filter, the exptool "ferret", or the free program
> "procmail") which will direct all mail from "national-alliance.org" to be
> sent to the bit bucket. Please see your local system or network administrator
> for questions about filtering your mail. 
> -------------------End forwarded message----------------------------


But if you really want to get in touch with the National Alliance, here's
the info:
   
Call the National Alliance answering service.
 	Main office:	(304) 653-4600
	California:	(818) 725-3430
  	Florida:	(407) 275-6815
	Illinois:	(708) 818-4045
	Maryland:	(410) 813-4105
	Mississippi:	(601) 373-6290
	Nevada:		(702) 434-1994
	New Jersey:	(201) 697-1011
	New York:	(212) 388-2655
	North Carolina:	(919) 742-2438
	Ohio:		(216) 846-1045
	Ottawa,Canada	(613) 834-7960
	Virginia:	(703) 715-6050  or (804) 673-7350
		
or check out the Web page at: http://www.natvan.com


Sylvie Charbonneau




From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 10:34:58 PST 1995
Article: 11788 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism,alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  <4ba3ai$ch0@news.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:28:50 GMT
Lines: 97
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11788 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8825 soc.culture.african.american:109291 alt.activism:16032 alt.discrimination:39965

Mike Murphy (umsmurph@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

(big snip for brevity's sake)
 
> : What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
> : just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.
> 
> Absolutely not.  Instead, I would exhort you to follow my advise and use 
> a larger *SAMPLE SIZE*.  I would also exhort you to read some books on 
> statistical analysis.  For instance, perhaps race *is* a factor in some 
> (or all, or *none*) of the cases that you cite.  However, it is equally 
> as likely that *level of education*, or *level of income*, or the *phase 
> of the moon* is/are a factor(s) as well.

Explain to me how level of education or level of income will make a
difference in the beating death of Sylvain Leduc by the black street gang
"Ace Crew".  Are you implying that if we put gave these scumbags more
welfare money, they wouldn't go around selling crack, recruiting (forcing)
young girls into prostitution and murdering wantonly?  (all of these
things are part of the arrest record)
 
> :   You are using accusations/arrests, 
> : > rather than convictions as your determining factor.  You dismiss a death 
> : > of someone whom you consider to be undesirable as "no great loss."
> 
> : It doesn't matter whether or not I comment on the death.  They're still dead.
> 
> Actually it *does* matter.  A good statiscal analysis does not color the 
> data used with *biased* commentary.  It takes the raw data, gives the 
> salient points (dispassionately) and then works to find ANY AND ALL 
> CORRELATIONS.

Yeah, but you're missing the point.  A disproportionate number of the
murderers are non-White.  How do you explain it?

> 
> : I am arguing with the facts that are made available to me.  In Canada, we
> : are not allowed to keep statistics on the race of perpetrators of crime. 
> : This is fact.  In order to get an accurate view of crime (specifically,
> : the murder rate in Ottawa for 1995) I used the information available to me
> : through observation, and through the media.  I would LOVE for the police
> : to provide me with accurate statistics on race and criminality.  But you
> : don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders committed
> : in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent approximately 15%
> : of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  White racism?  I
> : don't think so...
> 
> Seeing as I am not a Canadian citizen, I cannot comment on whether or not 
> *you* have access to the statistics.  However, I can say that all police 
> departments *do* keep track of who is victimized by violent crime, as 
> well as who the perpetrators are.

In Canada,it is illegal and unconstitutional to keep track of crime by
race.  If you don't believe me, ask any cop, lawyer, or any other Canadian
on the net.  You will see that I am correct.

  In the USA, we do have a "freedom of 
> information act" which allows a free press (or anyone else with the time 
> and resources) to gain access to the statistics and do a statiscal 
> analysis.

We have much the same thing here, but the government decides whether or
not it will allow you to conduct your search.  It can seal records at will.

 I have seen several done which conclude that the majority of 
> murders in the USA are not random acts of violence perpetrated by a 
> vicious "predator class".  Rather, most murder victims have had some kind 
> of relationship with their killers (family, friend, enemy).  Furthermore, 
> race is generally *not* as strong a factor in the USA as is education, or 
> income, except to say that the overwhelming majority of murders are 
> perpetrated against another person *within the same race*.  Now where I 
> live (a large midwestern city, with a fairly evenly divided population of 
> caucasians/minorities) the overwhelming majority of murders committed, 
> are committed by minorities against other minorities.  However, this is 
> due more to factors outside of race (i.e. economics, "passion", organized 
> criminal activity).  But before you jump on that last one (criminal 
> activity), know that seventy years ago in this same city, the statistics 
> were the same in relative terms, but it was the *caucasian (Mafia)* 
> "gangs" doing the killing/getting killed.  By the way, the same is true 
> in just about every city in the USA (historically).  I suggest that you 
> do a cursory examination of the historical facts before you delve into 
> matters beyond your statisical abilities.

You seem to forget that we are not living 70 years ago.  Sure the mafia
killed itself off then.  But as a rule, it only killed off other mafioso. 
Whereas black/hispanic/asian gangs tend to blow away anybody that happens
to be in their line of fire, and don't seem to care.  We had a case this
week where an asian restaurant was sprayed with bullets while full of
innocent diners.  The one who the shots were intended for was only grazed
in the leg.  Fortunately, no one was killed.  But what about next time?


Sylvie Charbonneau





From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 10:34:59 PST 1995
Article: 11789 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  <4battl$16ig@saba.info.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:41:18 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11789 alt.discrimination:39966 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8826 soc.culture.african.american:109292 alt.activism:16033

Abdou Kama (akama@ucla.edu) writes:
> bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:

Big snip for brevity's sake...
 
> 4. Arbitrary differentiating criteria (I bet more 80% of your subjects were
> from poor family background, however in your stupid eyes the white vs
> non-white issue is the main differentiating factor.)

Here's a few more facts for you, from the Ottawa Sun, December 17, page 19-20.

"Cuenco was a committed feminist and an expert of multiculturalism in
education who worked for the federal Heritage department.  A former
executive director of the United Council of Filipino Associations, she had
two children".

Now it seems to me that even on only her income, that family was doing
pretty good.  But I digress...

"The children's father (Kasonde) 45, a Canada Post computer programmer,
was charged with two counts of first-degree murder.  He had just split
with the children's mother Jane in 1993."

Again, no lack of money here...

"Getkate, (victim)originally from Lethbridge, Alta., received an industrial
psychology degree from the University of Guelph and was hired by the RCMP
in 1994 to streamline the force's promotion system."

Again, no lack of cash or education here...


Sylvie Charbonneau



From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 11:04:50 PST 1995
Article: 16032 of alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism,alt.discrimination
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  <4ba3ai$ch0@news.ecn.bgu.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:28:50 GMT
Lines: 97
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11788 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8825 soc.culture.african.american:109291 alt.activism:16032 alt.discrimination:39965

Mike Murphy (umsmurph@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu) writes:
> Sylvie Charbonneau (bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:

(big snip for brevity's sake)
 
> : What would you have me do?  Go out and exhort people to murder wantonly
> : just to increase my sample size?  Get a grip.
> 
> Absolutely not.  Instead, I would exhort you to follow my advise and use 
> a larger *SAMPLE SIZE*.  I would also exhort you to read some books on 
> statistical analysis.  For instance, perhaps race *is* a factor in some 
> (or all, or *none*) of the cases that you cite.  However, it is equally 
> as likely that *level of education*, or *level of income*, or the *phase 
> of the moon* is/are a factor(s) as well.

Explain to me how level of education or level of income will make a
difference in the beating death of Sylvain Leduc by the black street gang
"Ace Crew".  Are you implying that if we put gave these scumbags more
welfare money, they wouldn't go around selling crack, recruiting (forcing)
young girls into prostitution and murdering wantonly?  (all of these
things are part of the arrest record)
 
> :   You are using accusations/arrests, 
> : > rather than convictions as your determining factor.  You dismiss a death 
> : > of someone whom you consider to be undesirable as "no great loss."
> 
> : It doesn't matter whether or not I comment on the death.  They're still dead.
> 
> Actually it *does* matter.  A good statiscal analysis does not color the 
> data used with *biased* commentary.  It takes the raw data, gives the 
> salient points (dispassionately) and then works to find ANY AND ALL 
> CORRELATIONS.

Yeah, but you're missing the point.  A disproportionate number of the
murderers are non-White.  How do you explain it?

> 
> : I am arguing with the facts that are made available to me.  In Canada, we
> : are not allowed to keep statistics on the race of perpetrators of crime. 
> : This is fact.  In order to get an accurate view of crime (specifically,
> : the murder rate in Ottawa for 1995) I used the information available to me
> : through observation, and through the media.  I would LOVE for the police
> : to provide me with accurate statistics on race and criminality.  But you
> : don't seem to be getting the point: at least 35% of the murders committed
> : in Ottawa this year were by non-Whites.  They represent approximately 15%
> : of the population.  How do you explain the discrepancy?  White racism?  I
> : don't think so...
> 
> Seeing as I am not a Canadian citizen, I cannot comment on whether or not 
> *you* have access to the statistics.  However, I can say that all police 
> departments *do* keep track of who is victimized by violent crime, as 
> well as who the perpetrators are.

In Canada,it is illegal and unconstitutional to keep track of crime by
race.  If you don't believe me, ask any cop, lawyer, or any other Canadian
on the net.  You will see that I am correct.

  In the USA, we do have a "freedom of 
> information act" which allows a free press (or anyone else with the time 
> and resources) to gain access to the statistics and do a statiscal 
> analysis.

We have much the same thing here, but the government decides whether or
not it will allow you to conduct your search.  It can seal records at will.

 I have seen several done which conclude that the majority of 
> murders in the USA are not random acts of violence perpetrated by a 
> vicious "predator class".  Rather, most murder victims have had some kind 
> of relationship with their killers (family, friend, enemy).  Furthermore, 
> race is generally *not* as strong a factor in the USA as is education, or 
> income, except to say that the overwhelming majority of murders are 
> perpetrated against another person *within the same race*.  Now where I 
> live (a large midwestern city, with a fairly evenly divided population of 
> caucasians/minorities) the overwhelming majority of murders committed, 
> are committed by minorities against other minorities.  However, this is 
> due more to factors outside of race (i.e. economics, "passion", organized 
> criminal activity).  But before you jump on that last one (criminal 
> activity), know that seventy years ago in this same city, the statistics 
> were the same in relative terms, but it was the *caucasian (Mafia)* 
> "gangs" doing the killing/getting killed.  By the way, the same is true 
> in just about every city in the USA (historically).  I suggest that you 
> do a cursory examination of the historical facts before you delve into 
> matters beyond your statisical abilities.

You seem to forget that we are not living 70 years ago.  Sure the mafia
killed itself off then.  But as a rule, it only killed off other mafioso. 
Whereas black/hispanic/asian gangs tend to blow away anybody that happens
to be in their line of fire, and don't seem to care.  We had a case this
week where an asian restaurant was sprayed with bullets while full of
innocent diners.  The one who the shots were intended for was only grazed
in the leg.  Fortunately, no one was killed.  But what about next time?


Sylvie Charbonneau





From bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Thu Dec 21 11:04:52 PST 1995
Article: 16033 of alt.activism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.african.american,alt.activism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bn861
From: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Ottawa's murder stats for 1995!!!
Message-ID: 
Sender: bn861@freenet3.carleton.ca (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Reply-To: bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:  <4b5g8b$duj@news.ecn.bgu.edu>  <4battl$16ig@saba.info.ucla.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:41:18 GMT
Lines: 34
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:11789 alt.discrimination:39966 alt.politics.nationalism.white:8826 soc.culture.african.american:109292 alt.activism:16033

Abdou Kama (akama@ucla.edu) writes:
> bn861@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Sylvie Charbonneau) wrote:

Big snip for brevity's sake...
 
> 4. Arbitrary differentiating criteria (I bet more 80% of your subjects were
> from poor family background, however in your stupid eyes the white vs
> non-white issue is the main differentiating factor.)

Here's a few more facts for you, from the Ottawa Sun, December 17, page 19-20.

"Cuenco was a committed feminist and an expert of multiculturalism in
education who worked for the federal Heritage department.  A former
executive director of the United Council of Filipino Associations, she had
two children".

Now it seems to me that even on only her income, that family was doing
pretty good.  But I digress...

"The children's father (Kasonde) 45, a Canada Post computer programmer,
was charged with two counts of first-degree murder.  He had just split
with the children's mother Jane in 1993."

Again, no lack of money here...

"Getkate, (victim)originally from Lethbridge, Alta., received an industrial
psychology degree from the University of Guelph and was hired by the RCMP
in 1994 to streamline the force's promotion system."

Again, no lack of cash or education here...


Sylvie Charbonneau




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