The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:26 EDT 1999
Article: 188751 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Family tree of Hilary Clinton.
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:10:08 -0400
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Good morning everyone,

Today I am getting a third request that I type Hillary's family tree.
This request, taken against the background of still frequent references
of Judeo-Christian philo-Semitesto the Jewish family background as
"anecdotal" I will print it, although if might be found in the original
sources, the Jewish weekly Forward of NY and the conservative Jewish New
York Post (8/6/1999, pp 5, 6, &7), the oldest day newspaper in America
established by Hamilton.

Edwin Howell married Della Murray in 1918 in Chicago and divorced her in
1927;
    married by Methodist minister, Della Murray originally from
Montreal.  "Della" is maternal grandmother of Hillary. Data gleaned from
death and marriage certificates.

There are two children from this marriage Isabelle Howell and Dorothy
Howell

In 1933 Della Murray marries Max Rosenberg and they have a daughter
Adeline Rosenberg.  Close to Hillary aunt died two years ago.

Comment:

1) Jewish press went as far to admit Jewishness of Max  Rosenberg and
Adeline , but only that far.

2) Note the strange name Della.  I am certain it was doctored on some of
hers birth certificates from typical Jewish name Bella like famous
Congresswomen Bella Abzug of the same age.

3) Della Howell nee Murray looks like twin sister of Bella Abzug, i.e.
has a typical appearance of the Ashkenazi woman.  Her last name Murray
was most likely aquired in Canada when she immigrated from Przemysl,
Poland

4) Della's first born child daughter was named Isabelle ergo Bella, a
favor of Edwin Howell who initially loved so much his wife Della that
the couple gave their first child the real name of  "Della's"

Mother of Hillary marries in 1942 Hugh Rodham

Three children issue from this marriage

Tony Rodham, Richard Rodham and Hillary Rodham.

After their mother, Tony and Richard look like typical Ashkenazi Jews.
On the other hand Hillary does not have at all Jewish looks (she took it
after her father) except for her typical unshapely Jewish legs.

In 1975 Hillary marries William Clinton.  Only one child issues from
this marriage named Chelsey.  Chelsey has a typical facial looks of an
Ashkenazi girl (yenta).

Undoubtedly, her phenotype was acquired (inherited) from her maternal
grandmother.

Clintons have plenty of money to raise more than one child.  Clearly
Hillary is fertile because Chelsey is not adopted and looks like her
grandmother Dorothy.

Hillary surrounds herself with women mostly lesbians.  Bill for decades
remains unfaithful including having a son with a Afro-American.  The
only conclusion is that Hillary keeps Clinton out of their matrimonial
bed.  Initially in the White House Clinton resorted to jogging.
Eventually he got into sexual perversions with another Jewish girl.

Greetings,

Polina borowska





From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:26 EDT 1999
Article: 190459 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukraian,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: American looters during WW II >>Today's Washington Post.
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:38:50 -0400
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jerzy wk wrote:

> Well, well, I thought that nothing is going to surprise me...
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/oct99/train15.htm
>
> Jerzy WK

Above article is about "discovery" that American military was stealing
Jewish gold paintigs carpets and silver.

For some reason humanity has propensity for theft, including Germans.

However, when German  soldiers engaged in looting, Germans engaged in
prosecuting them DURING  the WW II.

1) for example, in late 1941 Dr Lach the SS Fuhrer of the district of
Galicia and brother of wife of Dr Hans Frank the Governor of General
Governement  and personal atty of A. Hitler was cought in appropriating
of carpets, paintings and antique furniture of deported Lemberg's
(Lwow's) Jews, he was immediately replaced by Dr Wachter,  tried by the
SS Court in Breslau (Wroclaw)  and imprisoned, while H. Frank was
handing in resignations because of family ties.

After 1945 Dr. Lach was again tried at Nuremberg and imprisoned again,
but none of stealing Americans (or British soldiers).

2)) In 1944 the Commendant of Majdanek and later Bergen Belsen camps, SS
major, Carl Koch was cought by the SS judiciary for embrezelment of
inmates property> Koch was arested in 1944 and executed on February 9,
1945 when the III Reich was about to collapse.

3) iN 1943, Some Jews at the camp in Poniatowa complained to camps SS
Administration that an Ukrainian and Polish Trawniki Guards stole from
them 150 marks an equivalent of about $7,000.00 today.  About two years
ago at the Archives of the Main Commission for the Nazi Crimes at WArsaw
I read the file of the proceedings against these guards who were
punished with three weeks of solitary confinment and transfer to
Shtuthoff camp.

I invite any exterminationist to show me similar examples of prosecution
of American or British soldiers for similar transgressions.

Polina Borowska

>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.



From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:26 EDT 1999
Article: 190525 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukraian,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: American looters during WW II >>Today's Washington Post.
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 01:33:54 -0400
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Dear Mr Morris,

Most of the Holocaust revisionists are eager students, even when the well
documented knowledge comes from the Holocaustians or exterminationists.

Thanks for your posting.

I knew nothing about the works of prof J. Robert Lilly.

1) But while reading his article on the subject of executions of American
soldiers I was under the impression that they were NOT military secrets but
hardly any one except Lilly took interest in them. Please correct me if I
misread Lilly's article

2) All of the 18 American soldiers were  executed by the military for rape,
murder or murder following rape while these soldiers were stationed in
Britain and were not exposed to enemy alliens, such as those imprisoned in
concentration camps.

Germans executed their own for mistreating the Jews!

Did Americans or Allies executed or punished any of their soldiers for
mistreating Germans or Italians or Japaneese?

3) It is of interest but probably statistically insignificant that 79% of
executed American soldiers were Negro or Latinos. Or perhaps it is
sociologically and politically significant?

With revisionist thanks to an angry exterminationist

remains yours, Polina Borowska


John Morris wrote:

> In <38090C8A.3112FB75@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sat, 16 Oct
> 1999 19:38:50 -0400, Joseph Pawlikowski pretending to be a woman named
> polin  wrote:
>
> >jerzy wk wrote:
>
> >> Well, well, I thought that nothing is going to surprise me...
>
> >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/oct99/train15.htm
>
> [snip]
>
> >However, when German  soldiers engaged in looting, Germans engaged in
> >prosecuting them DURING  the WW II.
>
> [snip]
>
> >I invite any exterminationist to show me similar examples of prosecution
> >of American or British soldiers for similar transgressions.
>
> The problem is one of sources.  German military justice records were
> not classified as military secrets by the Allies.  Yet it is standard
> procedure for American military trials, for instance, to be classified
> as military secrets.  It is only now that studies are being conducted
> such as J. Robert Lilly's study of 18 select cases of US military
> executions of American soldiers in Britain during World War II.
>
> But one doesn't expect Padlikowski to look for the facts.  He is too
> busy playing apologist for the Nazis.
>
> --
>  John Morris                                
>  at University of Alberta  
> --
> "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens.
> They are members of Judeosapiens."  Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999.



From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:27 EDT 1999
Article: 190748 of soc.culture.polish
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From: polin 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Szczerbiec i NOP najgwaltowniejsze pismo i organizacja w Europie ?!
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:18:52 -0400
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Dobrywieczor i NPJC

Polecam lekture ponizej z ktorej wynika ze miesiecznik Szczerbiec wydawany w Warszawie i prawicowa organizacja Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski to "najgwaltowniejsze" organizacje w Polsce i Europie!

Oczywiscie zadne dowody na ta gwaltownosc nie sa podane.  Miedzy wierszami mozna doczytac sie ze te organizacje opisuja fakty ktore przecza zagladzie 6,000,000 Zydow.  I to wlasnie nawiecej boli Unie "Jewropejska".

Ja sama jestem aktywnym czlonkiem tych organizacji, ktore pozatym sa reprezentowane na Zachodzie przez Polski Instytut Historyczny z USA.

Uprzejmie prosze mi wskazac nasza GWALTOWNOSC w naszych publikacjach, akcjach i moich listach i zawiadomieniach na sputsieci lub w takowych p. Jozefa Pawlikowskiego kiedy on byl aktywnym na internecie ( przestal byc bo mial dosyc obelg ktore na niego rzucano glownie za haslo NO  BONES  NO  HOLOCAUST - Nie ma kosci nie bylo holokostu [kosci 4,000,000 Zydow ktorych hitlerowcy rzekomo rozstrzelali i nie mieli czasu przepalic])

NOP zapoczatkowal akcje z stawianiem krzyzy w Oswiecimiu, ktora przekazal K. Switoniowi kiedy okazalo sie ze akcja ta zaczela przybierac ostre pociagniecia.

Demonstracje NOP we Wroclawiu zmusily Zydow do wycofania sie ze swych roszczen do Szpitala Kolejowego w tym miescie.

Bojowki zydowskie kilkadziesiat razy podpalaly i atakowaly siedziby NOPu w roznych miastach Polski, najbardziej wielokrotnie w Lodzi.  To jak raz schodzi sie z tym ze Lodz byla (i jest) najbardziej zazydzonym miastem przed wojna (30.3% ludnosci) zaraz przed Lwowem (30.1% Zydow).  W Warszawie bylo tylko 29% Zydow a ile jest obecnie to trudno wiedziec, bo archiwa sadow grodzkich, w ktorych przechowje sie akta zmian nazwisk z lat 1944-48 sa ostatnia tajemnica panstwowa III RP razem z archeologicznym badaniem Brzezinki tzw Raportem Hydrokopu z 1966 roku.

Brawo dla Szczerbca, NOP-u i Instytutu Narodowo Radykalnego, organizacje ktore maja za glowny cel wychowanie mlodziezy na religii, patriotyzmie i prawdzie historycznej a nie martyrologicznych mitach.

Polina Borowska

PS ks Wlodzimierzu prosze wyslac to do Gmuirczyka.
 
 

T   Y   G   O   D   N   I   K
                         N A S Z A       P O L S K A
            ISSN 1425-1914       Indeks 332453       NR 40 (210)       6 pazdziernika 1999
 

 

 
 

      Polska to kraj szalejacego antysemityzmu, z rasistowskim Radiem Maryja i Liga
      Republikanska - stwierdzili francuscy parlamentarzysci w zalaczniku do raportu nt.
      ruchow ekstremistycznych w Europie. Po protestach delegacji polskiej zalacznik zostal
      wycofany.

      Skandal w Strasburgu

      Zgromadzenie Parlamentarne Rady Europy, ktore obradowalo w Strasburgu pomiedzy 20 i 24 wrzesnia br.
      zajmowalo sie m.in. raportem Komisji Spraw Politycznych Zgromadzenia pt.: Zagrozenie dla demokracji ze
      strony ekstremalnych partii i ruchow w Europie. Autorem raportu jest socjalista Henning Gjellerod,
      przedstawiciel Danii.

      Tzw. organizacje ekstremalne i skrajna prawica to m.in. wymienieni w raporcie: neonazisci, satanisci,
      skinheadzi. Ale wymowa raportu jest jednoznaczna - chodzi o zablokowanie pod pozorem walki z
      neonazizmem i ksenofobia wszystkich ruchow, ktore glosza postulaty "antyunijne" i bronia tozsamosci
      narodowej wlasnych panstw.

      Rada Europy w roli zandarma

      Raport Gjelleroda ma charakter teoretyczny, pisany jest z pozycji lewicowych i globalistycznych. Okreslajac
      zadania Rady Europy (w tym: Komisji Europejskiej do Walki z Rasizmem i Nietolerancja - ECRI), stwierdza on
      we wstepie m.in., iz rasizm i nietolerancja narasta w wielu krajach czlonkowskich Rady Europy i stanowi
      zagrozenie dla podstawowych wartosci demokratycznych bronionych przez te organizacje. Dlatego tez
      autor postuluje walke z ekstremistami, a wiec m.in. z tymi grupami, ktore sprzeciwiaja sie globalizmowi i
      utracie przez panstwa europejskie tozsamosci narodowej i suwerennosci panstwowej. Pierwszy srodek to
      pozbawienie ekstremistow poparcia wyborczego, zdobytego w wyniku ekonomicznych bolaczek,
      bedacych rezultatem globalizacji, w tym bezrobocia. Ponadto "partie demokratyczne" (jak nalezy sadzic autor
      ma na mysli organizacje centrowe i socjaldemokratyczne podporzadkowane idei "zjednoczonej Europy") musza
      uzyskac nowe oblicze, gdyz ich niezdolnosc do przystosowania sie do nowej sytuacji gospodarczej i politycznej
      w Europie kieruje sympatie elektoratu ku skrajnej prawicy. Nalezy rowniez odpowiednimi przepisami prawnymi
      zakazac werbalnej badz pisemnej formy wyrazania rasizmu, antysemityzmu i ksenofobii, wlaczajac w to
      przekaz za posrednictwem mediow elektronicznych. W szczegolnosci musi zostac prawnie zakazane
      publiczne kwestionowanie holocaustu, co jest wspolna cecha charakterystyczna dla wielu ruchow
      [ekstremalnych - przyp. aut.], jak dotad nie we wszystkich krajach takie przepisy zostaly wprowadzone (...)
      - stwierdza raport. Trzecim srodkiem zagwarantowania "europejskiej poprawnosci politycznej" ma byc
      prowadzona na wieksza niz dotad skale skoordynowana polityka sil policyjnych dla zapobiezenia
      gwaltownym formom ekstremizmu (...).

      Francuzi poszli dalej...

      Francuzi uznali raport Gjelleroda za malo konkretny i uscislili go. Sporzadzili zalacznik pod nazwa Analysis of
      extremist parties and movements in various European States (Analiza ekstremalnych partii i ruchow w
      roznych krajach europejskich).

      Zalacznik liczy dziewietnascie stron i zawiera charakterystyke poszczegolnych panstw europejskich pod katem
      znaczenia w nich partii okreslanych jako skrajna prawica lub prawica ekstremalna.

      W czesci poswieconej Europie Srodowowschodniej stwierdza sie m.in.: Nie ma zadnych watpliwosci, iz wraz
      z zamierzonym rozszerzeniem Unii Europejskiej ekstremistyczne partie z Europy Zachodniej nawiazaly
      nowe kontakty ze swoimi odpowiednikami w Europie Wschodniej. Odbywa sie to w szczegolnosci
      poprzez Euro-Nat, grupe zalozona przez francuski Front Narodowy (...).

      Polska - kraj szalejacego antysemityzmu

      Zalacznik autorstwa Jeana-Yvesa Camusa omawia i Polske. Wynika z niego, iz najwiekszym zagrozeniem dla
      stabilnosci europejskiej jest "polski antysemityzm" oraz promujace go Radio Maryja oraz partie prawicowe.
      Wymowny jest juz tytul rozdzialu dotyczacego naszego kraju: Polska - antysemityzm bez Zydow.

      A oto ten fragment dokumentu, ktory nasza redakcja otrzymala ze Strasburga dzieki uprzejmosci Zgromadzenia
      Parlamentarnego Rady Europy: Zaden z ekstremistycznych polskich ruchow politycznych nie jest
      reprezentowany w parlamencie, zas partie skrajnej prawicy ciesza sie malym poparciem spolecznym.
      Naleza do nich m.in. Polska Wspolnota Narodowa, majaca poparcie 0,1 procenta, Stronnictwo
      Narodowe Macieja Giertycha (poparcie mniejsze niz 1 proc.) lub Blok dla Polski (okolo 2 proc.),
      skladajacy sie z bylych czlonkow Bezpartyjnego Bloku Wspierania Reform, utworzonego pod patronatem
      Lecha Walesy.

      Partie te maja swoje korzenie w konserwatywnym katolicyzmie i czesto odwoluja sie do Narodowej
      Demokracji Romana Dmowskiego. Jedynie liderowi Prawicy Narodowej, powiazanej z francuskim
      Frontem Narodowym, udalo dostac sie do parlamentu z list Akcji Wyborczej "Solidarnosc". Rowniez
      lider antykomunistycznej Ligi Republikanskiej dostal sie do parlamentu.

      Chociaz skrajna prawica cieszy sie malym poparciem wyborczym, ekstremistyczne idee i ksenofobia w
      stosunku do Zydow i mniejszosci niemieckiej sa powszechne w pewnej czesci Kosciola Katolickiego. Na
      przyklad Radio Maryja, kierowane przez Ojca Tadeusza Rydzyka, jawnie przekazuje tresci
      ksenofobiczne, wiadomosci o charakterze antysemickim i posiada poparcie trzydziestu poslow Akcji
      Wyborczej Solidarnosc i Stowarzyszenia Rodzin Katolickich.

      Tradycjonalisci, ktorzy postawili krzyze w bylym obozie koncentracyjnym Auschwitz, rowniez glosza
      hasla antysemickie, tak jak robi to ksiadz Henryk Jankowski, byly wspolpracownik Lecha Walesy. Ten
      antysemityzm w kraju, w ktorym mieszka obecnie zaledwie kilka tysiecy Zydow w porownaniu z 3
      milionami w roku 1939, jest mocno tepiony przez hierarchie Kosciola Katolickiego. Najbardziej
      gwaltowna grupa jest Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski, wydajace rewizjonistyczne pismo "Szczerbiec".

      Camus jak Tel Aviv

      Jean-Yves Camus jest czlonkiem "The European Centre for Research and Action on Racism and
      Anti-Semitism", z siedziba w Paryzu. I zapewne temu nalezy przypisac obrazliwa dla Polski i Kosciola
      katolickiego tresc dokumentu. Zalacznik ten jest powtorzeniem niektorych antypolskich sloganow
      pochodzacych m.in. z (o wiele bardziej szczegolowego) raportu Anti-Semitism Worldwide 1997/98,
      opracowanego przez The Stephen Roth Institute Uniwersytetu w Tel Avivie. W tym wlasnie dokumencie, w
      czesci poswieconej naszemu krajowi, znajduje sie np. nieprawdziwe stwierdzenie - powtorzone przez Camusa -
      iz jeden z liderow Prawicy Narodowej dostal sie do parlamentu. Raport izraelski rowniez pietnuje dzialalnosc
      ksiedza Jankowskiego oraz takich antysemickich partii jak Ruch Odbudowy Polski, Polskie Stronnictwo
      Ludowe, jest rowniez mowa o kontaktach pomiedzy ekstremistami a bardziej wywazonymi silami
      prawicowymi, ktore stworzyly rzad Akcji Wyborczej "Solidarnosc".

      Najwiekszym skandalem w zalaczniku do raportu Gjelleroda jest zawoalowana sugestia Camusa, iz Polacy
      odpowiadaja za wymordowanie ludnosci zydowskiej podczas II wojny swiatowej, jakze zbiezna z motywacja
      pozwu Zydow przeciwko Polsce, zlozonego w sadzie w Nowym Jorku. Jak inaczej bowiem nalezy odczytywac
      zdanie o tym, iz w Polsce mieszka obecnie zaledwie kilka tysiecy Zydow w porownaniu z 3 milionami w
      roku 1939? Francuz - reprezentant panstwa majacego chyba najwieksze "osiagniecia" w kolaboracji z
      Niemcami hitlerowskimi - nie wspomina w dokumencie o przyczynach zmniejszenia sie liczby Zydow w Polsce:
      wojnie, eksterminacji Zydow przez Niemcow. Tego nie ma. Padaja tylko suche liczby - trzy miliony w 1939 r. i
      kilka tysiecy obecnie. Co sie stalo z pozostalymi? Zapewne zostali wymordowani przez "antysemickich"
      Polakow.

      Protesty pomogly

      Kuluarowe protesty polskich deputowanych w ZPRE doprowadzily do wycofania zalacznika z tekstu raportu.
      Wedlug przekazanego nam ze Strasburga dodatku do zalacznika, zawierajacego opinie poszczegolnych
      delegatow o dokumencie - z polskiej strony swoje zdanie wyrazil jedynie postkomunista Tadeusz Iwinski. Co
      oczywiste, przedstawiciela SLD nie oburzyly falszywe informacje dotyczace rzekomego antysemityzmu Radia
      Maryja czy partii prawicowych. Pominal je milczeniem. Stwierdzil jedynie, iz nic mu nie wiadomo, by
      jakikolwiek lider Prawicy Narodowej dostal sie do parlamentu.

      Posel ZChN Marcin Libicki wydal natomiast specjalne oswiadczenie, w ktorym kategorycznie sprzeciwil sie
      przypisywaniu Radiu Maryja cech rasistowskich, uznajac je za skrajnie niesprawiedliwe i oszczercze: Radio
      jest jednym z najwazniejszych elementow ladu medialnego w Polsce, dajac duchowe wsparcie milionom
      sluchaczy kazdego dnia. Posel Libicki odrzucil rowniez zarzuty francuskiego deputowanego odnosnie Ligi
      Republikanskiej - mlodziezowej i akademickiej organizacji polskiej antykomunistycznej prawicy.
      Podkreslil takze, iz problem antysemityzmu w Polsce jest problemem sztucznym, a opinie zawarte w
      zalaczniku sa podobnie plytkie i niesprawiedliwe jak sam antysemityzm.

      ***

      Tym razem protesty polskich politykow pomogly i dokument z klamliwymi antypolskimi kalumniami
      zostal wycofany. Raport Gjelleroda bez dyskusji plenarnej zostal zwrocony Komisji Spraw Politycznych
      Zgromadzenia. Sprawa powroci na porzadek obrad w styczniu przyszlego roku. I dopiero wtedy
      przekonamy sie, czy protesty naszych parlamentarzystow odniosly jakis trwaly skutek.

      A na marginesie - czy warto pchac sie do struktury, w ktorej obraza sie Polske, jej wiare i narod, bez
      szacunku dla prawdy politycznej i historycznej? A moze wlasnie cena za przystapienie do Unii
      Europejskiej, aspirujacej poprzez swoje instytucje polityczne do roli zandarma w Europie, dla ktorego
      liczy sie tylko obrona holocaustu, a nie fakty polityczne i historyczne, ma byc zrzeczenie sie przez
      politykow znad Wisly wlasnego honoru i poczucia bycia Polakiem? r

      Andrzej Echolette
 

 
 
 
 
  From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:27 EDT 1999 Article: 190814 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukraian,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: American looters during WW II >>Today's Washington Post. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:24:34 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 101 Message-ID: <380B57D2.6B247579@catskill.net> References: <7u78q6$fkv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38090C8A.3112FB75@catskill.net> <38095FC2.4BDF3E94@catskill.net> <7ucjpd$qe8$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E" Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:190814 soc.culture.german:141681 alt.revisionism:687867 --------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grazyna Lesniak wrote: > polin > > (...) > >Germans executed their own for mistreating the Jews! > (...) > > Dear Polin ; > > I'm always ready to revision my knowledge and opinions. > Let me follow your magnificent way of thinking: > > -isn't exterminating the nation a "mistreating" > -or did Germans execute all nazis ? > > just curious > > Grazyna NPJC, Dear Grazyna: While it is obvious to revisionists that the Endlosung or Final Solution was Nazi euphemism for total expropriation of European Jews in revenge for boycotting of the German foreign trade since March 24, 1933 (resulting in its reduction to 61% according to The Jewish Chronicle of London of February 5, 1939) - the matter of industrial killing of Jews is hotly disputed and still remains to be proven by archeology of the mass graves, forensic and toxicological data on Zyclon B and Diesel exhaust and wartime and post war high resolution aerial photography. Your "Epoka Piecow" and "Epoka Zaglady" ( Era of Ovens and Era of Annihilation in Polish) is willting in the same manner as the First World War 'holocaust' of 6,000,000 Jews and 800,000 Jewish children wilted into oblivion. This First WW 'holocaust' widely publicized then by the politicians in the USA, allegedly took place in Poland and Ukraine and took place due to the "lust for the Jewish blood." I hope I satisfied your curiosity. Since you are fluent in English please translate it for your collegues at the Silesian Institute of Technology. Greetings from Polina and Szczesc Boze. wkw please email it to Gmurczyk --------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Grazyna Lesniak wrote:

polin

(...)
>Germans executed their own for mistreating the Jews!
(...)

Dear Polin ;

I'm always ready to revision my knowledge and opinions.
Let me follow your magnificent way of thinking:

-isn't exterminating the nation a "mistreating"
-or did Germans execute all nazis ?

just curious

Grazyna

NPJC,

Dear Grazyna:

While it is obvious to revisionists that the Endlosung or Final Solution was Nazi euphemism for total expropriation of European Jews in revenge for boycotting of the German foreign trade since March 24, 1933 (resulting in its reduction to 61% according to The Jewish Chronicle of London of February 5, 1939) -

the matter of industrial killing of Jews is hotly disputed and still remains to be proven by archeology of the mass graves, forensic and toxicological data on Zyclon B and Diesel exhaust and wartime and post war high resolution aerial photography.

Your "Epoka Piecow" and  "Epoka Zaglady" ( Era of Ovens and  Era of Annihilation in Polish)  is willting in the same manner as the First World War 'holocaust' of 6,000,000 Jews and 800,000 Jewish children wilted into oblivion.  This First WW 'holocaust' widely publicized then by the politicians in the USA, allegedly took place in Poland and Ukraine and took place due to the "lust for the Jewish blood."

I hope I satisfied your curiosity.

Since you are fluent in English please translate it for your collegues at the Silesian Institute of Technology.

Greetings from Polina and Szczesc Boze.
wkw please email it to Gmurczyk --------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E-- From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:27 EDT 1999 Article: 190863 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Statystyka elity, a ilosc Zydow-marranow w Polsce >>>My Zydzi, My komunisci czerwoni - to dopiero brzmi dumnie Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:51:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 301 Message-ID: <380BB267.3034B344@catskill.net> References: <19990707201139.08075.00008748@ng-fs1.aol.com> <19991017183908.02330.00000105@ngol01.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:190863 NPJC i dobrywieczor czytelnikom; Pan Kochanski o ile sie nie myle "sztandarowy" Zyd i zagladowiec nieswiadomie ugdzil sie w serce wymieniajac kilkunastu czy kilkudziesieciu Polakow zydowskiego pochodzenia w rzadzie i elicie III RP. Poniewaz nie jestem antysemitka (a tylko rewizjonistka holokostu i innych historycznych mitow), mnie nie przeszkadza ze Zydzi z demokratycznym nastawieniem sa w polskiej czolowce i rzadzie. Szczesc im Boze! Jest mi nawet przyjemnie slyszec ze w wiekszosci sa oni dziecmi uprzednie elity i czolowki wyznajacej i praktykujacej terror i totalitaryzm. Jest mi to milo slyszec bo to oznacza ze dzieci moga byc madrzejsi i moralnie lepsi od ich potwornych rodzicow. Glowna przeslanka holokostu DWS jest to ze zniszczyl on ponad 90 % polskich Zydow i ze w Polsce obecnie mieszka tylko od 5,000 do 20,000 Zydow. Pytanie dlaczego Pan Kochanski ugodzil w serce holokostu ze swoim zwierzeniem. Pan Wieslaw i reszta sciepowiczow i sciepowerow ( z wyjatkiem p. Miecza) zapewne zgodza sie ze Zydzi sa madrzejsi i obrotniejsi od Polakow ale chyba nie na wiecej niz na sto procent. Przecietnie jedna osoba z 60,000 do 30,000 ludnosci wybija sie do tego by stac sie czlonkiem rzadu lub intelektualnej elity. Poniewaz zalozylismy ze Zydzi sa 100% madrzejsi i aktywniejsi od Polakow czy innych Slowian, w takim razie kazdy Zyd w czolowce jak np minister spraw zagranicznych Gieremek czy nasz prezydent Kwasniewski czy redaktor Wyborczej reprezentuja od 30,000-15,000 Zydow zyjacych w Polsce. Poniewaz lekko doliczyc sie 50 Zydow w czolowce Polski a wiec obecnie, w naszym kraju pod zmienionymi nazwiskami musi zamieszkiwac okolo 1,500,000 zydowskich marranow. Jesli popelnilam gdzies matematyczny lub logiczny blad w tym rewizjonistycznym rozumowaniu, prosze mi go wskazac piszac na sciep lub nawet lepiej na moja elepoczte. Z pozdrowieniaaami Polina Borowska Ps Ksiadz W prosze wyslac to Gmurczykowi do Szczerbca. Wieslaw Kochanski wrote: > Z tego, ze tzw. okres stalinizmu (czyli lata 1944-1956) byl najbardziej > antypolskim okresem w dziejach PRL-u, wiekszosc Polakow zdaje sobie sprawe. > Sporo naszych rodakow slusznie kojarzy te lata z dominacja w aparacie > wladzy komunistow pochodzenia zydowskiego. Niewielu jednak wie o tym, iz > znaczna czesc elity politycznej i kulturalnej Trzeciej Rzeczypospolitej > wywodzi sie z rodzin owczesnych wladcow Polski. Warto sobie uswiadomic > skale tego zjawiska. > > Kontynuatorzy z SLD > > Wielu potomkow bierutowsko-bermanowskiego establishmentu zasila dzisiaj > szeregi SLD. Najlepszym tego przykladem jest (formalnie do ubieglego > piatku) premier Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz, ktorego ojciec, Marian, byl > oficerem Informacji Wojskowej. W 1951 roku na jego rozkaz aresztowano > komendanta Wojskowej Akademii Technicznej oraz kilkunastu oficerow > pracujacych na tej uczelni, ktorzy wczesniej byli w Armii Krajowej. > > Inny czolowy polityk lewicy, byly wicepremier i wicemarszalek Sejmu > (ostatnio ponownie wybrany do Sejmu) Marek Borowski, jest synem Wiktora, > przedwojennego dzialacza Komunistycznej Partii Polski. Ojciec Borowskiego, > ktory naprawde nazywal sie Aron Berman, w roku 1944 byl zalozycielem i > pierwszym redaktorem naczelnym "Zycia Warszawy", a w latach 1951-1967 - > zastepca redaktora naczelnego "Trybuny Ludu". > > Zwiazkami rodzinnymi z prominentami tamtego okresu moga sie pochwalic takze > inni dzialacze SLD, np. posel Longin Pastusiak, ktory jest zieciem I > sekretarza KC PZPR z roku 1956, Edwarda Ochaba. Z kolei jeden z czytelnikow > "Glosu" w liscie do redakcji opublikowanym w numerze z 21-23 marca br. > napisal, ze ojciec innego polityka lewicy, posla SLD ostatniej kadencji - > Janusza Zemke, byl od roku 1945 szefem UB w Wabrzeznie (wojewodztwo > torunskie). Posel Zemke jak dotad nie zaprzeczyl tej informacji. > > Wszyscy ludzie prezydenta > > O dzialalnosc w Urzedzie Bezpieczenstwa niektore emigracyjne gazety > oskarzaly takze ojca prezydenta Aleksandra Kwasniewskiego, twierdzac, ze > nosil on wowczas nazwisko Stolzman. Ale nawet, gdyby nie bylo to prawda, > faktem jest, ze w swojej Kancelarii Kwasniewski zatrudnil ludzi > pochodzacych z komunistycznych rodzin. > > O bylej szefowej Kancelarii, poslance SLD, Danucie Waniek, wiemy, iz > wychowala sie w lewicowym domu we Wloclawku. Ojciec kierowal zakladem > produkcyjnym, matka zwiazana byla z handlem. Oboje byli w PZPR (L. > Zalewska, Spiewaczka prezydenta, "Zycie" z 2-3 listopada 1996 r.). > > Inny bliski wspolpracownik Kwasniewskiego, szef Biura Bezpieczenstwa > Narodowego Marek Siwiec, rowniez pochodzi z takiej rodziny: Jego ojciec byl > wicedyrektorem tarnobrzeskiego kombinatu siarkowego "Siarkopol", matka - > prokuratorem (R. Szubstarski, Misjonarz prezydenta, "Zycie" z 26-27 > pazdziernika 1996 r.). > > W prezydenckiej Kancelarii zostal zatrudniony takze znany (m.in. z > publikacji na lamach prasy prawicowej!) publicysta i poeta, Aleksander > Rozenfeld, ktory w tekscie pt. Byc Zydem w Polsce pisal: Moi rodzice po to, > by nie byc obcymi wymyslili, ze beda budowac komunizm, to byla wlasnie > ideologia, ktora kazala wierzyc, ze ludzie sa sobie rowni, bez wzgledu na > kolor skory, religie i status spoleczny. Uwierzyli jeszcze przed wojna, > ocalili zycie w sowieckiej Rosji i wrocili do Polski, nie rozumiejac, ze > slowo komunista bedzie sie wlasnie w Polsce kojarzyc z Zydami ("Najwyzszy > Czas!" z 12 marca 1994 r.). > > Od UB do UW > > Ale nie tylko w poblizu SLD i prezydenta Kwasniewskiego znalezli sie > potomkowie "zasluzonych" komunistycznych rodzin. Wielu z nich znalazlo > swoje miejsce w Unii Wolnosci, gdzie prym wioda dzialacze, ktorzy partyjne > legitymacje nosili jeszcze za zycia Bieruta - Bronislaw Geremek i Jacek > Kuron. > > W takim towarzystwie bardzo dobrze czuje sie np. posel Jan Litynski, > ktorego rodzice byli komunistami jeszcze przed wojna; ojciec zmarl w 1947 > roku. (...) Litynski najwczesniej wkroczyl do historii. Jako szesciolatek > na manifestacji 22 lipca 1952 roku podbiegl do trybuny i wreczyl Bierutowi > kwiaty (A. Bikont, Siedmiu sposrod wybranych, "Magazyn Gazety Wyborczej" z > 5 listopada 1993 r.). > > Inni prominentni czlonkowie UW posiadaja podobne zwiazki rodzinne: > prezydent Warszawy Marcin Swiecicki jest zieciem PRL-owskiego wicepremiera, > czlonka KC PZPR w latach 1948-1981, Eugeniusza Szyra, zas czolowy udecki > ekonomista Waldemar Kuczynski przyznal sie do tego, iz jego tesciem byl > Stefan Staszewski, I sekretarz Komitetu Warszawskiego PZPR w roku 1956. > > Zatrudniona przez Swiecickiego na stanowisku sekretarza gminy > Warszawa-Centrum, zona posla UW Henryka Wujca, Ludwika Wujec, jest corka > przedwojennej dzialaczki KPP Reginy Okrent, ktora w latach 1946-1949 > pracowala w Urzedzie Bezpieczenstwa w Lodzi. > > Burmistrzem warszawskiego Srodmiescia w latach 1990-1994 byl Jan > Rutkiewicz, syn Wincentego, dzialacza komunistycznego, ktory zginal w > czasie wojny, i Marii, w latach 1948-1950 szefowej Kancelarii Sekretariatu > KC PZPR. Matka Jana Rutkiewicza po wojnie wyszla za maz za Artura > Starewicza, ktory w latach 1949-1953 byl kierownikiem Wydzialu Propagandy > KC PZPR, a nastepnie sekretarzem CRZZ i sekretarzem KC PZPR. > > "Sami swoi" w MSZ > > Rowniez wsrod pracownikow sterowanego przez Geremka Ministerstwa Spraw > Zagranicznych znajdziemy ludzi o podobnych rodowodach. > > W latach 1995-96 wiceministrem w tym resorcie byl Stefan Meller, ktorego > ojciec, Adam, pracowal w Informacji Wojskowej, a nastepnie, do roku 1968, w > dyplomacji. Meller jest obecnie ambasadorem Polski w Paryzu. > > Dyrektorem Departamentu Studiow i Planowania MSZ jest Henryk Szlajfer, syn > Ignacego, oficera UB we Wroclawiu w latach 1947-1952, a nastepnie cenzora w > Glownym Urzedzie Kontroli Prasy, Publikacji i Widowisk. Natomiast > stanowisko dyrektora Departamentu Promocji i Informacji MSZ zajmowala do > niedawna Malgorzata Lavergne, corka znanego dzialacza komunistycznego, > pierwszego szefa Glownego Zarzadu Politycznego LWP, gen. Wiktora Grosza, > ktory jeszcze przed wojna nosil nazwisko Izaak Medres. > > Stanowiaca finansowe zaplecze udecji Fundacja Stefana Batorego to rowniez > strefa wplywow potomkow stalinowskiego aparatu. Jej prezesem jest > Aleksander Smolar, czlonek wladz Unii Wolnosci, syn Grzegorza, ktory do > roku 1968 byl redaktorem naczelnym "Folks-Sztyme", organu popieranego przez > wladze PRL Towarzystwa Spoleczno-Kulturalnego Zydow w Polsce. Matka Smolara > pracowala w KC PZPR. Sekretarzem Fundacji byl do niedawna Jozef Chajn, > ktorego ojciec, Leon, byl w latach 1945-1949 wiceministrem sprawiedliwosci, > a do roku 1961 sprawowal kontrole nad "sojuszniczym" Stronnictwem > Demokratycznym. > > Korzenie Ruchu Stu > > Ludzi o bierutowsko-bermanowskiej genealogii znajdziemy takze na prawicy. > Posel z ramienia Akcji Wyborczej "Solidarnosc", prezes liberalnego Ruchu > Stu, Czeslaw Bielecki, tak mowil o swoich rodzicach: Wyrastalem w rodzinie > zasymilowanej inteligencji zydowskiej. Ojciec, z wyksztalcenia matematyk, > byl dyrektorem generalnym w Ministerstwie Oswiaty w latach piecdziesiatych. > Wylecial z tego stanowiska razem z Wladyslawem Bienkowskim, gdy Gomulka > "zwijal" Pazdziernik. Matka byla urzedniczka w Glownym Urzedzie > Statystycznym, zajmowala sie demografia. Rodzice komunizowali jeszcze przed > wojna (E. Boniecka, Blizej politykow, Torun 1996). > > Towarzystwo z "Wyborczej" > > Terenem, na ktorym szczegolnie mocno usadowilo sie drugie pokolenie > stalinowskich rodzin, jest prasa. Szefem najwiekszej w Polsce gazety jest > przeciez Adam Michnik, syn przedwojennego komunisty Ozjasza Szechtera i > autorki zaklamanych podrecznikow do historii, Heleny Michnik, a takze brat > ubeckiego "sedziego", Stefana Michnika. Redaktora naczelnego "Gazety > Wyborczej" wspiera jego zastepczyni, Helena Luczywo, corka innego KPP-owca, > a po wojnie kierownika wydzialu w KC PZPR, Ferdynanda Chabera. > > Drugim zastepca Michnika byl do niedawna dzis prowadzacy "Rozmowy Dnia" w > programie Warszawskiego Osrodka Telewizyjnego (WOT) Ernest Skalski, syn > Jerzego Wilkera-Skalskiego i Zofii Nimen-Skalskiej, przedwojennych > komunistow, ktorzy pozniej pracowali w Komendzie Wojewodzkiej MO w > Krakowie. Jerzy Urban napisal o nim: Pochodzenie Skalskiego z > rodzicow-aparatczykow - zgodnie z dominujaca regula - musialo go > zaprowadzic w koncu do opozycji (J. Urban, Alfabet Urbana, Warszawa 1990). > > Czolowym publicysta "GW" jest Konstanty Gebert, podpisujacy swoje teksty > jako Dawid Warszawski, a od niedawna takze redaktor naczelny zydowskiego > miesiecznika "Midrasz". Ojciec Geberta, Boleslaw, byl po wojnie ambasadorem > PRL w Turcji, a matka, Krystyna Poznanska-Gebert, w latach 1944-1945 > organizowala Wojewodzki Urzad Bezpieczenstwa Publicznego w Rzeszowie. > > Dziennikarze czerwoni od pokolen > > Redaktorem naczelnym zlikwidowanego niedawno "Sztandaru" byl Michal Komar, > ktory jest jednoczesnie prezesem Unii Wydawcow Prasy. Jest on synem Waclawa > Komara, dowodcy walczacych w Hiszpanii "dabrowszczakow", a nastepnie > PRL-owskiego generala, i Marii Komar, ktora dzialalnosc komunistyczna > rozpoczela rowniez przed wojna, jeszcze pod nazwiskiem Rywa Cukierman. > > Wydawca i szef tygodnika "Nie", Jerzy Urban, rowniez moze sie pochwalic > podobnym pochodzeniem. Jego ojciec, co prawda zaczynal kariere polityczna i > dziennikarska w przedwojennej PPS, jednak zaraz po wojnie wlaczyl sie w > dzialalnosc PKWN, byl rowniez czlonkiem, kierowanej przez Bieruta, Krajowej > Rady Narodowej. Wieloletni kolega Urbana z "Polityki", obecnie ambasador > Polski w Chile, Daniel Passent, byl wychowywany przez wuja, przedwojennego > komuniste, generala Jakuba Prawina, po wojnie wiceprezesa NBP i wojewode > olsztynskiego. > > Z kolei dziennikarzem "Tygodnika Solidarnosc" jest Antoni Zambrowski, syn > Romana, jednego z czolowych stalinowcow, czlonka Biura Politycznego KC PPR > i PZPR w latach 1944-1963. Szefem polskiego oddzialu agencji Reutera jest > natomiast Michal Broniatowski, ktorego ojciec, pulkownik Mieczyslaw > Broniatowski, od roku 1945 byl dyrektorem Centralnej Szkoly Ministerstwa > Bezpieczenstwa Publicznego w Lodzi, a nastepnie dyrektorem Departamentu > Spoleczno-Administracyjnego MSW. > > W kulturze - jak za Bieruta > > Rowniez w dziedzinie kultury mozna zauwazyc silna pozycje dzieci dawnych > rzadcow Polski. Bardzo modnym wsrod udeckiej inteligencji kwartalnikiem > "Zeszyty Literackie" kieruje Barbara Torunczyk, corka Henryka, dzialacza > komunistycznego jeszcze sprzed wojny, i Romany, do 1968 roku pracujacej w > Zakladzie Historii Partii przy KC PZPR. > > Inny publicysta i poeta o tej samej orientacji ideowej, Tomasz Jastrun, > jest synem Mieczyslawa, znanego poety, po wojnie redaktora marsistowskiego > tygodnika "Kuznica", ktory z partii wystapil w 1957 roku, a wiec zaraz po > zakonczeniu okresu stalinowskiego. > > Mieszkajacy obecnie w Australii (ale publikujacy w "Gazecie Wyborczej") > poeta i piesniarz, niegdys "bard opozycji", Jacek Kaczmarski, tak mowil o > swojej rodzinie: Moj dziadek byl przed wojna zaangazowanym komunista, po > wojnie zas komunistycznym dygnitarzem. (...) Wierzyl w dziejowa misje > partii itd. Po wojnie znalazl sie wiec w kregach wladzy, byl ambasadorem w > Kambodzy, pelnil jakies dyplomatyczne funkcje w Szwajcarii, potem pracowal > w ministerstwie oswiaty. Z partii wystapil w 1981 roku. Jego zona, czyli > moja babcia (...) pochodzila z rodziny zydowskiej, co jak przypuszczam, nie > pozostalo bez wplywu na zeslanie mojego dziadka do ministerstwa oswiaty po > 1968 roku (wywiad pt. Chce konfrontacji, "Tygodnik Solidarnosc" z 4 maja > 1990 r.). > > Filmowe imperium > > Wsrod najglosniejszych rezyserow filmowych znajdziemy dzisiaj Janusza > Zaorskiego, bylego prezesa Radiokomitetu i przewodniczacego Krajowej Rady > Radiofonii i Telewizji, ktorego ojciec w pierwszym okresie PRL-u byl > dyrektorem generalnym w Ministerstwie Finansow, a nastepnie wiceministrem > kultury i sztuki odpowiedzialnym za film. Bratem Janusza Zaorskiego jest > znany aktor, Andrzej Zaorski. > > Inne znane rodzenstwo filmowe to Agnieszka Holland i Magdalena > Lazarkiewicz, dwie rezyserki, ktorych ojcem byl Henryk Holland, > przedwojenny komunista, w czasie wojny ochotnik w Armii Czerwonej, pozniej > redaktor naczelny "Walki Mlodych" i dziennikarz "Trybuny Ludu". W tej > ostatniej gazecie, organie KC PZPR, w okresie stalinowskim pracowala > rowniez matka Marcela Lozinskiego, rezysera znanego z proudeckich sympatii. > Inny rezyser, Andrzej Titkow, jest synem Walentego, bylego I sekretarza KW > PZPR w Warszawie. > > Genealogie profesorow > > Podobne rodowody posiada wielu znanych ludzi nauki. Profesor historii > sredniowiecznej, a zarazem byly senator OKP i dzialacz Unii Pracy, Karol > Modzelewski, pochodzi z rodziny przedwojennych komunistow, zas jego > ojczymem byl czolowy stalinowiec, minister spraw zagranicznych w latach > 1947-1951, Zygmunt Modzelewski. > > Inny historyk, profesor Instytutu Historii PAN, Jerzy W. Borejsza, jest > synem zmarlego w roku 1952 komunistycznego dyktatora w dziedzinie kultury, > Jerzego Borejszy, ktory przed wojna nazywal sie Beniamin Goldberg. > Profesorem politologii na filii Uniwersytetu Warszawskiego w Bialymstoku, a > zarazem redaktorem naczelnym Wydawnictwa Naukowego PWN, jest Jan Kofman, > syn Jozefa, sekretarza i czlonka Prezydium CRZZ do roku 1968. > > Celem tego, niepelnego przeciez, zestawienia nazwisk nie jest obciazanie > wymienionych tu osob odpowiedzialnoscia za czyny ich rodzicow. Chcialem > jedynie pokazac, w jakim stopniu obecne elity naszego kraju wywodza sie z > elit, ktore kilkadziesiat lat temu, w najciemniejszym okresie stalinizmu, > rzadzily Polska. Czy tak duza ilosc ludzi o podobnych rodowodach w polskiej > polityce, prasie, kulturze i nauce to tylko zwykly przypadek, czy raczej > planowe promowanie ludzi z "czerwonej arystokracji"? Na to pytanie niech > odpowiedza sobie Czytelnicy. > > Pawel SIERGIEJCZYK From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:28 EDT 1999 Article: 191094 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: glosujcie na Papieza Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:21:15 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 153 Message-ID: <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net> References: <0.6e23b89f.253e95de@aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191094 NPJC, W zadnym wypadku nie bede glosowala na tego naszego 'mierzawca' (po rosyjsku podla, mala, niewdzieczna osoba) Papieza. Juz nie tylko ze wzgledu na jego sluzalcze 'body language' (po angielsku pozy ciala wskazujace na wewnetrzne nastawienie osobnika) w obecnosci Zydow (Madlaine Albright w Watykanie lub wobec rabina Kozielewskiego machajacego mu palcem pod nosem w Warszawie). Jednakze jako kobiete i matke, najbardziej co mnie odrzuca od 'naszego papieza' to fakt ze klamie na temat swojej Matki i wstydzi sie jej ukrainskiego pochodzenia i albo o niej milczy albo klamie ze byla Litwinka. Bez watpienia, w poprzezednich dekadach robil to dla kariery i ze strachu przed Zydami ktorzy uwazaja Ukraincow za jeszcze wiekszych antysemitow od Polakow. Bedac papiezem moglby sie zaczac przyznawac do Matki na ktorej czesc wypisywal elegie jako kilkunastoletni chlopiec. Wszak nie stanie 'pieredsiedatieljom' przewodniczacym czy pierwszym sekretarzem Trojcy Swietej. Jako mlodzieniec, w czasie wojny stawial opor najezdzcy wystepujac jako aktor w prywatnym krakowskim teatrzyku i wstepujacdo seminarium duchownego. Ja juz glosowalam na J. Flemminga, jednego z odkrywcow PENICYLINY. Odnosnie Hitlera, przykro mi slyszec ze jest on na trzecim miejscu. Moi rodzice ucierpieli wywlaszczenie we wrzesniu 1939 roku i to bez-zwrotne. Stad i brak u mnie do niego milosci choc z drugiej strony, ja jako polskie niemowle przezylam DWS tylko dzieki hitlerowskiej opiece lekarskiej. Choc Polacy mieli gorsze kartki zywnosciowe i byli drugiej klasy obywatelami III Reichu z ograniczonymi prawami obywatelskimi, sluzba medyczna byla dla nas taka sama jak dla Niemcow. Polakow i mnie leczono ze smiertelnych w tych czasach biegunkach letnich noworodkow w niemieckim szpitalu Swietej Anny dwa razy. Jezeli jednak wybiora Hitlera, to chyba dlatego ze coraz mniej ludzi wierzy w zaglade Zydow (brak masowych grobow 4,000,000 Zydow kotrych niemcy nie zdazyli przepalic) i Polakow a coraz wiecej zdaje sobie sprawe ze Hitler byl pierwszym przywodca narodu ktory - wprowadzil 4 tygodniowe wakacje dla pracownikow - darmowa kase chorych dla wszystkich robotnikow ( nie ma tego do dzis w USA) - sam nie palil i walczyl z paleniem papierosow jako szkodliwych dla zdrowia w czasach kiedy American Medical Association zalecalo w rekalmach dla Camel'i palenie w wypadku chorego gardla - byl pierwszym ktory wprowadzil zarzadzenia w celu ochronny czystosci powierza i srodowiska - wprowadzil zarzadzenia ochrony zwierzat i kary za znecanie sie nad nimi - zasluzonych robotnikow wysylal na wakacje do Grecji i Wloch w tym celu zbudowanymi okretami - WPROWADZIL PRAWA ZABRANIAJACE SKROBANEK W TYM DLA POLEK. Nie jestem pewna ale chyba i te same prawa odnosily sie do Zydowek karal obozem koncentracyjnym za nielegalne przerywanie ciazy. - jako osme panstwo w Europie wprowadzil prawo o eutanazji. Choc byly wybieranym dyktatorem po kilku miesiacach to zarzadzenie odwolal w 1939 roku po protestach wladz koscielnych. - Hitler byl jedynym zachodnim przywodca narodu ktory placil duchownym comiesieczna gaze w tym polskim ksiezom, tym ktorzy nie zajmowali sie polityka. Podejrzanych w patriotyzmie >>> internowal setkami w Dachau. - HITLER BYL CHYBA JEDYNYM, WYBIERANYM CO DWA LATA W PLEBISCYCIE DYKATOREM W NOWOCZESNEJ HISTORII SWIATA . - Hitler byl utalentowanym artysta malarzem (portrety, architektura), ktory od reki w czasie wizyty do budujacej sie fabryki Volkswagenow od reki na karteluszce machnal olowkiem (naszkicowal) zewnetrzyny wyglad Volkswagena auto ktore jeszcze do dzis uzywaja tysiace mieszkancow ziemskiej kuli. - Hitler byl przeciwko totalitarnej wojnie i zwyciestwu za wszelka cene!!! - Posiadajac zasoby gazow paralizujacych nerwy, wolal popelnic samobojstwo niz uratowac za taka straszna cene III Rzesze - Hitler byl jedynym ktory sprzeciwial sie budowaniu bombowcow dalekiego zasiegu, ktrorych glownych celem bylo (w tych czasach) bombardowanie ludnosci cywilnej ze wzgledu na ich niecelnosc w czasie zrzutow bomb (stad naloty dywanowe w tym holokost w Hamburgu Cologne i Dreznie.) - Nota bene Churchill byl pierwszym ktory zaczal bombardowanie ludnosci cywilnej i to juz 11 maja 1940 roku na drugi dzien jak go obrano Prime Minister. Bombardowanie Gurenica w Hiszpanii (1937), Warszawy (1939) i Roterdamu (1940) bylo uprawomocnione miedzynarodowymi konwencjami o prowadzeniu wojny i bombardowaniu miast twierdz. Z powazaniem Polina Borowska PS Hitler byl rowniez glupi: na dobro nam lub na zlo nigdy nie rozparcelowal kolhospow i dlatego przegral wojne z Rosja. Wwrobel22@aol.com wrote: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [ProPatria] glosujcie na Papieza > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:24:24 (UTC) > From: Kasia1205@aol.com > Reply-To: Lista Pro Patria > To: ProPatria@3w3.net > > VOTE AGAINST HITLER FOR TIME MAGAZINE'S PERSON OF THE CENTURY > > > >>> >TIME magazine is having an election, via the Internet, in order to > > >>> >find the "person of the century." Amazingly, today (right now) > > >>> >Hitler is number 3. I don't know how you feel about it, but I don't > > >>> >want to see Hitler's face on the cover of this year's December > > >>> >edition of TIME magazine. I don't think that someone who is > > >>> >directly responsible for the death of millions and someone who > > >>> >taught hatred in such an unbelievable way should be called the > > >>> >"person of the century." > > >>> > > > >>> >For whatever influence Hitler may have had on the 20th century > > >>> >it seems a shame to give what could be considered an honor to this > > >>> >man. There are so many people to vote for that have evoked > > >>> >positive change on the 20th century. > > >>> > > > >>> >Please take a moment to visit the web site listed below and vote for > > >>> >just about anyone else. If you look up the top 100 on the web site, > > >>> >(by clicking "submit," before you actually vote), it will show > > >>> >you the number of votes accumulated for each person (again, > > >>> >Hitler is in 3rd place right now). > > >>> > > > >>> >Neo nazi groups from all over the world will call their members > > >>> >to vote for Hitler via e-mail; I want to do the same, but the other > > >>> >way around. It is up to you if you want to follow my call for > > >>> >voting against Hitler and it is also up to you if you want to spread > > >>> >this e-mail or not. It won't cost you anything, and takes just a > > >>> >little time to do. > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> >Please vote against Hitler under: > > >>> > > > >>> > http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/time100/poc/century.html > > >>> > Click here: Person of the Century Poll > > >>> > and please forward this to everyone on your e-mailing list > > ======================================================= > ProPatria - lista dyskusyjna poswiecona antypolonizmowi > Administrator: (MJ Wiechowski) From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:28 EDT 1999 Article: 191298 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: jewropejszczyzna w naszej mowie >>>[central-europe] No Subject Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:29:09 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 138 Message-ID: <380F1524.EB558294@catskill.net> References: <003101c03ad0$08f42340$642da0d4@ppp> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------123FF7A2FB2051B55F49155F" Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191298 soc.culture.ukrainian:59455 --------------123FF7A2FB2051B55F49155F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Choc pan mieszka w Polsce powinien pan najpierw nauczyc sie mowic i pisac po polsku a nie wciskac nam zargon Jewropejskiej Unii. Po polsku jest WYPISAC SIE a nie "wylogowac" co mozna przetlumaczyc na 'wyklodzic'. W kazdym badz razie po angielsku 'log' to jest bierwiono przed rozklinowaniem go na klody. Poprawny polski zargon Unii wymaga powiedziec lub napisac 'wylogingowac" Na internet uzywam slowa sputsiec dla upamietnienia ze PIERWSZY sztuczny satelita ziemi mial proto-ukrainska, staroslowanska nazwe sptunik. Ja nie wysylam emaili a elepoczte Nie moge wymyslec slowa na witryne, makaronizm jak rowniez na fax ktory Ukraincy nazywaja telezapysuwacz. Stapler Ukraincy nazwali skobnikiem kilkanascie lat temu co sie przyjelo w Polsce od slow skoba ktorymi zbijano bierwiona na goralskich chatach- sadybach i szalasach. Kitchen counter Ukraincy nazywaja lawnikiem poniewaz (niskie) lawy staly pod scianami. Poniewaz ukrainskie i polskie slowa sa odnosnie tych przedmiotow identyczne uzywam je i ja. Ciekawe czy sie przyjma. Microwave oven Ukraincy nazywaja chwylopiczka. Ciekawe dlaczego w tym najstarszym slowianskim jezyku jest tak lekko tworzyc nowe slowa a jezyku polskim jest tak trudno je wymyslac?! Nasz' piec mikrofalowy" to raczej zlozona trzywyrazowa makaronistyczno slowianska okrpopnosc jezykowa. Klimatyzator lub eirkondyszoner ERIN'a i jemu podobnych Ukraincy nazywaja 'cholodilnyk' w odroznieniu od kuchenno zenskiego rodzaju cholodilnia lub lidiwnyczka. A jak cholodilnyk nazwac po polsku? "Polski" kalkulator po ukrainsku czyselnyk. Jestem zazdrosna ze Ukraincy mowiac po ukrainsku uzywaja ukrainskich slow ( mimo tego ze przez 350 lat probowano ich zrusyfikowac a nas zaledwie 150) , a my czepiamy sie jak nie jewropejszczyzny to makaronizmow. Nasi jezykoznawcy powinni poskrobac sie troche po glowach i wymyslec jaka slowianska nazwe na computer. Proponuje zeby popatrzyli w KILKUNASTOTOMOWY SLOWNIK STAROZYTNOSCI SLOWIANSKICH, ktory mi splonal, i wskrzesili jakis staroslowianski lub staroposki archaizm jezykowy ktory by mial podobne znaczenie jak dzisiejszy kompjuter. Zapene bacowie mieli jakes slowo na wierzbowy lub topolowy patyk na ktorym karbowali ilosc owiec i baranow zabieranych gospodarzom na lato na hale. Ale nasi dzisiejsi jezykoznawcy i kompjuterszczycy nie wiele madrzejsi od tych goralskich baranow i zachlystuja sie jewropejszczyzna z pozdrowieniami \\Polina Borowska Ksiadz W prosze to wyslac Gmurczykowi i Papurkowi i prosze jeszcze raz o ich adres elepoczty ktory zgubilam. ERIN wrote: > Co mam zrobic zeby sie wylogowac????????????? > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications --------------123FF7A2FB2051B55F49155F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Choc pan mieszka w Polsce powinien pan najpierw nauczyc sie mowic i pisac po polsku a nie wciskac nam zargon Jewropejskiej Unii.

Po polsku jest WYPISAC SIE a nie "wylogowac" co mozna przetlumaczyc na 'wyklodzic'.  W kazdym badz razie po angielsku 'log' to jest bierwiono przed rozklinowaniem go na klody.  Poprawny polski zargon Unii wymaga powiedziec lub napisac 'wylogingowac"

 Na internet uzywam slowa sputsiec dla upamietnienia ze PIERWSZY sztuczny satelita ziemi mial proto-ukrainska, staroslowanska nazwe sptunik.

Ja nie wysylam emaili a elepoczte

Nie moge wymyslec slowa na witryne, makaronizm  jak rowniez na fax ktory Ukraincy nazywaja telezapysuwacz.

Stapler Ukraincy nazwali skobnikiem kilkanascie lat temu co sie przyjelo w Polsce od slow skoba ktorymi zbijano bierwiona na goralskich chatach- sadybach i szalasach.

Kitchen counter Ukraincy nazywaja lawnikiem poniewaz (niskie) lawy staly pod scianami.  Poniewaz ukrainskie i polskie slowa sa odnosnie tych przedmiotow identyczne uzywam je i ja.  Ciekawe czy sie przyjma.

Microwave oven  Ukraincy nazywaja chwylopiczka.  Ciekawe dlaczego w tym najstarszym slowianskim jezyku jest tak lekko tworzyc nowe slowa a jezyku polskim jest tak trudno je wymyslac?!  Nasz' piec mikrofalowy" to raczej zlozona trzywyrazowa makaronistyczno slowianska  okrpopnosc jezykowa.

Klimatyzator lub eirkondyszoner ERIN'a i jemu podobnych Ukraincy nazywaja 'cholodilnyk' w odroznieniu od kuchenno zenskiego rodzaju cholodilnia lub lidiwnyczka.   A jak cholodilnyk nazwac po polsku?

"Polski" kalkulator po ukrainsku czyselnyk.

Jestem zazdrosna ze Ukraincy mowiac po ukrainsku uzywaja ukrainskich slow ( mimo tego ze przez 350 lat probowano ich zrusyfikowac a nas zaledwie 150) , a my czepiamy sie jak nie jewropejszczyzny to makaronizmow.

Nasi jezykoznawcy powinni poskrobac sie troche po glowach  i wymyslec jaka slowianska nazwe na computer.  Proponuje zeby popatrzyli w

KILKUNASTOTOMOWY  SLOWNIK  STAROZYTNOSCI  SLOWIANSKICH,  ktory mi splonal, i wskrzesili jakis staroslowianski lub staroposki archaizm jezykowy ktory by mial podobne znaczenie jak dzisiejszy kompjuter.

Zapene bacowie mieli jakes slowo na wierzbowy lub topolowy patyk na ktorym karbowali ilosc owiec i baranow zabieranych gospodarzom na lato na hale.

Ale nasi dzisiejsi jezykoznawcy i kompjuterszczycy nie wiele madrzejsi od tych goralskich baranow i zachlystuja sie jewropejszczyzna

z pozdrowieniami \\Polina Borowska

Ksiadz W prosze to wyslac Gmurczykowi i Papurkowi i prosze jeszcze raz o ich adres elepoczty ktory zgubilam.
 

ERIN wrote:

 Co mam zrobic zeby sie wylogowac?????????????

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
--------------123FF7A2FB2051B55F49155F-- From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:28 EDT 1999 Article: 191443 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Pare slow w sprawie KARUZELI..... Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:07:09 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 203 Message-ID: <380FB8BD.AD030EEE@catskill.net> References: <7ui94q$jpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191443 WP Drozdowski, polscy Zagladowcy i zydowscy Sciepowerzy, Cala ta dyskusja na temat karuzeli wskazuje na mnostwo emocji dopisujacych a malo sensu i rzetelnych wiadomosci na ten temat. Wrazenia ludzi ktorzy pisza na ten temat przypominaja reakcje pacjentow u psychiatry gdy on w celach diagnostycznych kaze im opisac co widza w kleksie z atramentu. I tak jedni z pacjentow widza diabla, czesc motyla a inni aniola. Bardzo niewielu nawet zdrowych ludzi powiedza psychiatrze ze w plamie z atramentu widza kleks na papierze. Jedna z tych osob jestem ja i postaram sie wskazac na Wasze bujne Zagladowe wyobrazenia. 1) Sa tylko trzy rzetelne rzetelne wiadomosci na temat karuzeli w poblizu muru Getta: a) dosc nieostre zdjecie tej karuzeli w zbiorach GKBZH. Zdjecie to nie ma daty i jego prowniencja jest nieznana. Przewozna karuzela jest na zdjeciu zlozona (skladowana) tzn nikt jej w chwili robienia zdjecia nie uzywal i ze zdjecie nie wynika ze ona byla niedawno lub pozniej w tym miejscu uzywana. b) choc w warszawskiej gadzinowce z kwietnia 1943 roku sa reklamy, zadna karuzela ani wesole miasteczko w tym czasie sie nie reklamowaly. c) nikt z tych co przezyli okupacje ani z Polakow ani z Zydow tej karuzeli nie wspominal o ile ja sie orientuje. Sprawa karuzeli nabrala rozglosu gdy poeta zydowskiego pochodzenia Milosz wspomnial o niej w jednym ze swych wierszy. Po publikacji poezji Milosza, Ci Co Przezyli Polacy i Zydzi natychmiast sobie przypomnieli karuzele w najdrobniejszych detalach i to ze muzyka grala (patefon ? radio? mechaniczne pianino? zywa orkiestra?) a takze to ze karuzela sie krecila gdy Niemcy palili Getto a Polacy i Polki sie smiali ze Niemcy z Zydow robia kotlety. W zakonczeniu chce przypomniec ze to ze Niemcy palili Getto jest wynikiem nie ze Ci Co Ocaleli pamietali ten fakt ale wynikiem tego ze w latach piecdziesiatych ogladali, razem ze mna, film zrobiony po wojnie na ktorym hitlerowcy podpalali dom za domem przy pomocy miotaczy ognia. Dzis po czterdziestu latach nie jestem pewna czy pozary ktore widzialam w studium Wytworni Filmow Fabularnych w Lodzi umiejscowione w Parku Poniatowskiego widzialam potem na filmie czy to byl jakis inny film krecony. Rzeczywistosc odnosnie palenia Getta przez Niemcow jest tak samo rozna jak ta na temat karuzeli. Nie Niemcy a Zydowscy bojowkarze palili Getto i to w nie tyle w celach obronnych co finansowych. Hitlerowcy, wrecz przeciwnie, GASILI pozary w Gettcie i to przy pomocy okolo 600 polskich strazakow. Jednym z takich strazakow byl najblizszy przyjaciel sp mgr. Bednarczyka. Ale poniewaz jestem rewizjonistka wiec ani Bendnarczykowi ani temu strazakowi na slowo nie wierzylam. (Mgr. Bednarczyk byl sikorszczakiem, czlonkiem Korpusu Bezpieczenstwa [to takie UB Armii KRajowej] autorem kilku ksiazek (np Walus kontra Wisenthal] i zalozycielem muzeum Sikorskiego w Wawie). Jednakze pisale o tym general SS Stroop (jako rewizjonistka temu hitlerowcowi oczywiscie nie wierzylam na slowo) a co najwazniejsze jak ogladac zdjecia z jego albumu przez lupe to na dalekim planie widzac polskich strazakow jak gasza pozary w Gettcie. Oczywiscie nie robi najmniejszego sensu twierdzenie ze Niemcy palili i jednoczesnie gasili Getto. A dlaczego podpalali je zydowscy bojowkarze z Anielewiczem i Edelmanem na czele? Odpowiedz jest ze glownie po to by ulatwic im "eksy". Mikroskopowe podziemie Getta zylo z ekspropriacji tzn szli z rewolwerami do bogatych Zydow i grozili: Szmul jak nie masz miekkich (papierowych dolarow) dawaj twarde zlote 20 dolarowki lub 10ciorublowki) na organizacje. Jak Szmul nie dawal to bili lub urzadzali niby to egzekucje opornego. Haslem do "powstania" a naprawde ruchawki bylo Kein Geld, Kein Mensch. 10 kwietnia 1943 roku Niemcy zarzadali kolejnej natychmiastowej kontrybucji $5,000 w zlocie i zagrozili kolejna deportacja 5,000 mezczyzn do obozu w Trawnikach i Poniatowej jesli zlota natychmiast nie dostana. 99.5% ludnosci getta postanowilo nie oddac monet zachowanych na czarna godzine i spokojnie poddac sie deportacji a 0.5% awanturnikow i komunistow postanowili wywolac "powstanie" (Dr. Edelman twierdzi ze bralo udzial okolo 200 bojownikow inni Zydzi ze okolo 1,000). "Powstancy" widzac ze ludzie spokojnie pojda na deportacje zdawali sobie ze nie beda mieli z kogo wiecej zdzierac pieniedzy. Stad powstanie. Dlaczego palili - w dwu celach: a) obronnym i zwiekszenie zamieszania dla Niemcow i odwrocenie ich uwagi b) w celu szybkiego wykurzenia wspolwyznawcow z mieszkan w celu ich "spenetrowania" i mieszkan tzn ostatniej ekspropriacji (ostatniego eksa). I rzeczywiscie, nienajgorzej na tym wyszli. Antek Zukierman natychmiast po wojnie sie rozpil nigdzie nie pracowal i chodzil w butach z cholewami (widac to na zdjeciach). Buty z cholewami wowczas to tak jak sportowe Ferrari lub Cadillac dzis. Dr. Edelman 24 letni rzekomo bez rodziny i bez grosza mlodzieniec stal sie wlascicielem willi w Lodzi na ulicy Zelwerowicza ktora dzis jest warta okolo $250,000 a chyba dwa razy wiecej po wojnie w Lodzi w ktorej panowal szalony glod mieszkaniowy. Nie trudno sie domyslec ze ci mlodzie ludzie stali sie nagle bogatymi w 1945 roku nie z pracy wlasnych rak. Tak wiec wracajac do Warszawskiej Karuzeli, mitologia Zagladowcow na jej temat wytwozyla sie dopiero kilkadziesiat lat po wojnie a "twarde" fakty wskazuja na zupelna prozaike. Karuzela stala w tym miejscu najprawdopodobniej skladowana i od lat nie uzywana. Inaczej, natychmiast po wojnie pamietali by ja warszawscy Zydzi i Polacy Z Powazaniem Polina borowska Ksiadz W. prosze wyslac to Gmurczykowi i Danie Papurec. jdrozdowski@my-deja.com wrote: > On 16 Oct 1999 23:40:44 GMT, ru8xx@aol.com (RU8xx) wrote: > > >Sprawa "Karuzeli".... > > > >Kontrowersja pomiedzy pogladem p. Ponieckiej i p. Malca w sprawie > karuzeli, > >ktora w kwietniu 1943 roku dzialala przy murach getta warszawskiego, > wynika - > >jak sadze - z oczywistego faktu, ze p. Jerzy widzi w tej karuzeli > przede > >wszystkim _ symbol_ sytuacji historycznej, a p. Hania - patrzy na te > karuzele > > J.Malec nie widzi nic poza tym co chce widziec i Panu, Panie Pawle, > widze oczy bielmem zachodza, jak nie przykladajac u J.Malca. > > >przede wszystkim jako na _historyczny fakt i konkret_. > > > >Znam starszego pana, ktory mieszkal bardzo blisko tej karuzeli, majac > wtedy lat > >pietnascie. > >Wspomina czasem, jak wchodzil z kolega na dach domu, aby obserwowac, > jak plonie > >getto. > >Pamieta karuzele. > >Byla karuzela i faktycznie ludzie siadali na karuzeli i jakas muzyka > nawet > >grala, a getto plonelo i ludzie tam gineli. > > Ja rowniez znam straszego Pana, ktory pamieta ze ludzie w czasie kiedy > gineli ludzie w lasach, obozach, podczas morderczej pracy czy tez > lapanki brali sluby, robili wesela, obchodzili imieniny. > > > > >Jeszcze przed powstaniem - wspomina moj znajomy, ktorego ojciec mial > sklep z > >tzw. "produktami kolonialnymi" tuz obok getta - codziennie do sklepu > >przychodzili mali chlopcy z getta, ktorym udawalo sie przeslizgnac > przez dziure > >w murze. > > > >Moj znajomy dwie rzeczy pamieta najbardziej: ze jego ojciec zawsze im > cos dawal > >do jedzenia i ze powszechnie mowilo sie o takim dziecku - "Zydlak". > > > >A z karuzela to tak bylo: z karuzeli wiadomo, ze korzystali mieszkancy > >Warszawy...jednoczesnie wiadomo, ze bylo to - by pozyczyc zwrotu z > jednego z > >artykulow p. Prussa - POSPOLSTWO. > >Warszawskie pospolstwo. > > > >Ludzie, ktorzy - jak pisze p. Pruss - mieli tendencje do mordowania > Zydow w > >Wielki Tydzien w okresie sredniowiecza, nie widzieli niczego > niewlasciwego w > >korzystaniu z karuzeli, gdy inni ludzie za murem umierali. > > > >Powiedzmy o nich wlasnie w ten, nieco archaiczny sposob: POSPOLSTWO. > > > >Pospolstwo jest wszedzie i bylo wszedzie. > > > >Chyba wiec zamiast mowic o POLAKACH, lepiej mowic o pospolstwie, ktore > akurat > >_ zdarzylo sie_ byc polskie. > > > >Ci ludzie nie byli w stanie odczuwac zadnej solidarnosci z Zydami i nie > >zdawali sobie wtedy sprawy z jednej waznej sprawy... > >Z tego, co mowi mloda Zydowka z opowiadania Tadeusza Borowskiego > "Pozegnanie z > >Maria": > > > >" - A ja mysle, ze po aryjskiej stronie tez bedzie getto - powiedziala > patrzac > >z ukosa na Marie. - Tylko nie bedzie z niego wyjscia." > > Bardzo manipuluje Pan, Panie Pawle, bardzo. Innymi slowy dolewa Pan > swiadomie oliwy do ognia. Zapewne stanie Pan ponownie na szczycie stosu > i zawola gromkim glosem jaka to niesprawiedliwosc sie dzieje. > Ostatnim razem spoznilem sie z zapalkami ale teraz trzymam je blisko > siebie. > > J.Drozdowski > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:28 EDT 1999 Article: 191452 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: M. Kopernik, najslawniejszy rewizjonista ludzkosci >>glosujcie na Papieza Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:41:59 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 159 Message-ID: <380FC0E7.842AF39D@catskill.net> References: <0.6e23b89f.253e95de@aol.com> <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191452 jacob wrote: > polin wrote in message <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net>... > > Jaka szkoda, ze Polin/Pawlikowski nie zyl/a w czaie Hitlera. Bylaby lepszym > ministrem propagandy od Goebbelsa. > A Wy glupi Polacy wcale nie wiedzieliscie jak docenic Hitlera. > Trzeba byc podlym do najwyzszego stopnia, zeby tak draznic Polakow na > polskiej liscie. > Mozemy sobie wyobrazic, jak szczesliwa/y byl/a/by, gdyby Hitler wygral > wojne. > > jakub Panie Baker, Gdybym nie uciekla z Polski zostalabym napewno uwieziona jako jedna z Taternikow (czek) po procesie Kultury w 1964 roku. Wbrew Panskim przewidywaniom, jestem pewna ze z moim rewizjonistycznym nastawieniem do narodowych mitow, wyladowalabym w jednym z hitlerowskich obozow koncentracyjnych obozow gdy Niemcy wygrali DWS. Kiedys moim role model byl Nasz Papiez. Obecnie sa nim Maria Curie-Sklodowska i Mikolaj Kopernik, najslawniejszy rewizjonista ludzkosci. Polina > > > >NPJC, > > > >W zadnym wypadku nie bede glosowala na tego naszego 'mierzawca' (po > rosyjsku > >podla, mala, niewdzieczna osoba) Papieza. Juz nie tylko ze wzgledu na jego > >sluzalcze 'body language' (po angielsku pozy ciala wskazujace na wewnetrzne > >nastawienie osobnika) w obecnosci Zydow (Madlaine Albright w Watykanie lub > >wobec rabina Kozielewskiego machajacego mu palcem pod nosem w Warszawie). > > > >Jednakze jako kobiete i matke, najbardziej co mnie odrzuca od 'naszego > papieza' > >to fakt ze klamie na temat swojej Matki i wstydzi sie jej ukrainskiego > >pochodzenia i albo o niej milczy albo klamie ze byla Litwinka. > > > >Bez watpienia, w poprzezednich dekadach robil to dla kariery i ze strachu > przed > >Zydami ktorzy uwazaja Ukraincow za jeszcze wiekszych antysemitow od > Polakow. > >Bedac papiezem moglby sie zaczac przyznawac do Matki na ktorej czesc > wypisywal > >elegie jako kilkunastoletni chlopiec. Wszak nie stanie > 'pieredsiedatieljom' > >przewodniczacym czy pierwszym sekretarzem Trojcy Swietej. > > > >Jako mlodzieniec, w czasie wojny stawial opor najezdzcy wystepujac jako > aktor > >w prywatnym krakowskim teatrzyku i wstepujacdo seminarium duchownego. > > > > Ja juz glosowalam na J. Flemminga, jednego z odkrywcow PENICYLINY. > > > >Odnosnie Hitlera, przykro mi slyszec ze jest on na trzecim miejscu. > > > >Moi rodzice ucierpieli wywlaszczenie we wrzesniu 1939 roku i to > bez-zwrotne. > >Stad i brak u mnie do niego milosci choc z drugiej strony, ja jako polskie > >niemowle przezylam DWS tylko dzieki hitlerowskiej opiece lekarskiej. Choc > >Polacy mieli gorsze kartki zywnosciowe i byli drugiej klasy obywatelami III > >Reichu z ograniczonymi prawami obywatelskimi, sluzba medyczna byla dla nas > taka > >sama jak dla Niemcow. Polakow i mnie leczono ze smiertelnych w tych > czasach > >biegunkach letnich noworodkow w niemieckim szpitalu Swietej Anny dwa razy. > > > >Jezeli jednak wybiora Hitlera, to chyba dlatego ze coraz mniej ludzi wierzy > w > >zaglade Zydow (brak masowych grobow 4,000,000 Zydow kotrych niemcy nie > zdazyli > >przepalic) i Polakow a coraz wiecej zdaje sobie sprawe ze Hitler byl > pierwszym > >przywodca narodu ktory > > > >- wprowadzil 4 tygodniowe wakacje dla pracownikow > > > >- darmowa kase chorych dla wszystkich robotnikow ( nie ma tego do dzis w > USA) > > > >- sam nie palil i walczyl z paleniem papierosow jako szkodliwych dla > zdrowia w > >czasach kiedy American Medical Association zalecalo w rekalmach dla Camel'i > >palenie w wypadku chorego gardla > > > >- byl pierwszym ktory wprowadzil zarzadzenia w celu ochronny czystosci > powierza > >i srodowiska > > > >- wprowadzil zarzadzenia ochrony zwierzat i kary za znecanie sie nad nimi > > > >- zasluzonych robotnikow wysylal na wakacje do Grecji i Wloch w tym celu > >zbudowanymi okretami > > > >- WPROWADZIL PRAWA ZABRANIAJACE SKROBANEK W TYM DLA POLEK. Nie jestem > pewna > >ale chyba i te same prawa odnosily sie do Zydowek karal obozem > koncentracyjnym > >za nielegalne przerywanie ciazy. > > > >- jako osme panstwo w Europie wprowadzil prawo o eutanazji. Choc byly > >wybieranym dyktatorem po kilku miesiacach to zarzadzenie odwolal w 1939 > roku po > >protestach wladz koscielnych. > > > >- Hitler byl jedynym zachodnim przywodca narodu ktory placil duchownym > >comiesieczna gaze w tym polskim ksiezom, tym ktorzy nie zajmowali sie > >polityka. Podejrzanych w patriotyzmie >>> internowal setkami w Dachau. > > > >- HITLER BYL CHYBA JEDYNYM, WYBIERANYM CO DWA LATA W PLEBISCYCIE > DYKATOREM > >W NOWOCZESNEJ HISTORII SWIATA . > > > >- Hitler byl utalentowanym artysta malarzem (portrety, architektura), ktory > od > >reki w czasie wizyty do budujacej sie fabryki Volkswagenow od reki na > >karteluszce machnal olowkiem (naszkicowal) zewnetrzyny wyglad Volkswagena > auto > >ktore jeszcze do dzis uzywaja tysiace mieszkancow ziemskiej kuli. > > > >- Hitler byl przeciwko totalitarnej wojnie i zwyciestwu za wszelka cene!!! > > > >- Posiadajac zasoby gazow paralizujacych nerwy, wolal popelnic samobojstwo > niz > >uratowac za taka straszna cene III Rzesze > > > >- Hitler byl jedynym ktory sprzeciwial sie budowaniu bombowcow dalekiego > >zasiegu, ktrorych glownych celem bylo (w tych czasach) bombardowanie > ludnosci > >cywilnej ze wzgledu na ich niecelnosc w czasie zrzutow bomb (stad naloty > >dywanowe w tym holokost w Hamburgu Cologne i Dreznie.) > > > > > >- Nota bene Churchill byl pierwszym ktory zaczal bombardowanie ludnosci > >cywilnej i to juz 11 maja 1940 roku na drugi dzien jak go obrano Prime > >Minister. Bombardowanie Gurenica w Hiszpanii (1937), Warszawy (1939) i > >Roterdamu (1940) bylo uprawomocnione miedzynarodowymi konwencjami o > prowadzeniu > >wojny i bombardowaniu miast twierdz. > > > >Z powazaniem > >Polina Borowska > > > >PS Hitler byl rowniez glupi: na dobro nam lub na zlo nigdy nie > rozparcelowal > >kolhospow i dlatego przegral wojne z Rosja. > > > > > > > > From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:28 EDT 1999 Article: 191457 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Hitler - wybieralnym dyktatorem >>> glosujcie na Papieza Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:54:03 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 44 Message-ID: <380FC3BB.70B83B13@catskill.net> References: <0.6e23b89f.253e95de@aol.com> <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net> <7ukiol$1ln$1@readme.uio.no> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191457 Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski wrote: > polin wrote: > : - HITLER BYL CHYBA JEDYNYM, WYBIERANYM CO DWA LATA W > : PLEBISCYCIE DYKATOREM W NOWOCZESNEJ HISTORII SWIATA . > > W jakich latach te "plebiscyty" sie odbyly i kto jeszcze > kandydowal?? Panie Leszku, W plebiscytach cze referendum nie ma wielu kandydatow jest tylko jeden na ktorego sie glosuje lub przeciw. Gdyby Hitlerowi co dwa lata nie przeglosowan praw Furhera - przywodcy - dyktatora wznowiono by dzialalnosc Reichstagu -Sejmu Ostatnie wybory/plebiscyt/referendum na Hitlera odbylo sie w 1943 roku o ile sie nie myle. Poniewaz Pan zadal to (rozsadne) pytanie na ten malo znany a niezmiernie wazny fakt przjerze podrezniki na ten temat. Pozdrawia, Polina Borowska. PS Jestem pewna ze te wszystkie obelgi ktorymi mnie obsypujecie uzywacie ich dlatego ze myslicie ze jestem mezczyzna. W zwiazku z tym nie biore ich do siebie lub na powaznie. Jestem rowniez pewna ze wy Polacy i polscy Zydzi jestescie zbyt wielkimi dzentelmenami by w tak okrutny sposob obrazac niewiaste. PB > > > Leszek > --- > Smart questions to stupid answers > Pisz z sensem - rob dwie spacje po kropce From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:29 EDT 1999 Article: 191458 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Rozprawiania sie z dr. Ratajczakiem - c.d. Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:57:31 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 82 Message-ID: <380FC48B.B6A688DC@catskill.net> References: <380CCBE9.8F38C1F4@ix.netcom.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191458 Dziekuje Panie Mieczu za zamieszczenie wiadomosci o Dr. Ratajczaku.

Jego sprawa jest mi bardzo powazna i kamieniem na sercu i w zwiazku z tym napisze na ten temat obszernie za kilka dni po doglebnym zasiegnieciu jezyka

Polina

PS Rowniez Sciepowicze i Sciepowerzy powinni wiedziec dlaczego w wieku niemowlecym rozpadl sie Komitet Obrony dr, Ratajczaka

"Miecz - S³awomir" wrote:

         Dnia 19. pazdziernika 1999 ( w 15. rocznice zamordowania
     ks. Jerzego Popieluszki) w Sadzie Rejonowym w Opolu odbyla
     sie rozprawa w sprawie umorzenia warunkowego postepowania
     przeciwko Doktorowi Dariuszowi Ratajczakowi, wykladowcy
     Uniwersytetu Opolskiego - zawieszonemu w kwietniu br.
     w prawach nauczyciela akademickiego po wydaniu ksiazki
     "Tematy Niebezpieczne" pod zarzutem k³amstwa
     oswiecimskiego.
         Prokurator Lidia Sieradzka nie zgodzila sie na umorzenie
     warunkowe, postulujac aby rozprawa sie odbyla i aby Ratajczak
     zostal skazany a wyrok podany do publicznej wiadomosci.
         Dr Dariusz Ratajczak  rowniez nie zgadza sie na umorzenie
     warunkowe, wnioskuje o pelne uniewinnienie od zarzutow.
     Bronil sie osobiscie  z braku srodkow finansowych na
     zaplacenie adwokata (nie pracuje juz od kwietnia br). Odczytal
     swoje 4-minutowe oswiadczenie w obronie wolnosci slowa,
     gdzie zaatakowal glownie polityczna poprawnosc (political
     correctness). Powiedzial miedzy innymi: "Politycznie poprawne
     grupy, ktore nawet fizycznie molestuja rewizjonistow
     holocaustu, zachowuja sie nie lepiej niz hitlerowskie bojowki SA
     w roku 1933 w Niemczech"
         Po wysluchaniu obu stron, sedzia Turczynski stwierdzil, ze
     nastepna rozprawa odbedzie sie 16 listopada br.
          Na sali obecni byli glownie dziennikarze prasy i telewizji
     lokalnej i ogolnopolskiej.
     Rozprawa trwala okolo 10 minut i juz bylo po wszystkim.

         Trzeba podkreslic fakt niezaprzeczalny, ze Dr Ratajczak po
     kilku miesiacach bezrobocia, bez srodkow do zycia, bez zadnej
     pomocy finansowej z zewnatrz, nie zalamal sie, nie poddal sie,
     nie prosil na kolanach o umorzenie sprawy, ale stanowczo
     wnioskowal o uniewinnienie od wszelkich zarzutow.

     podal PK

Wiadomosc przeslal,
--

              //
   O<<<<M I E C Z>>>>>>>>>>>>
              \\

T.N.Roman

         „Jestem Polakiem -- wiêc mam
    obowi±zki  polskie...”

Roman Dmowski,  „MY¦LI NOWOCZESNEGO POLAKA”

mailto:polradko@ix.netcom.com

From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:29 EDT 1999 Article: 191461 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Polina sie pomylila >>>>Hitler - wybieralnym dyktatorem >>> glosujcie na Papieza Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:46:11 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 118 Message-ID: <380FCFF3.C3CF1315@catskill.net> References: <0.6e23b89f.253e95de@aol.com> <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net> <7ukiol$1ln$1@readme.uio.no> <380FC3BB.70B83B13@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191461 NPJC, dobrywieczor sicepowiczom i sciepowerom, antysemitom i filosemitomm rewizjonistom i zagladowcom. Jak sie duzo mowi i lub pisze jest wrecz niemozliwym nie popelnic bledu. Zdazylo sie to i mnie w ponizszym liscie. Otoz nawet w tytule uzylam niewlasciwego slowa odnosnie Hitlera. Nie zauwazylambym tego gdyby nie krytyka naszych zagladowcow-sciepowerow! Rzeczywiscie Hitler nie byl wybieranym dyktatorem. A bylo to tak: W 1933 roku po pozarz Reichstag dal mu, kanclerzowi (kanclerz mniej wiecej = prezes rady ministrow) dyktatorskie prawa na piec lat tzn mogl ustanawiac prawa bez udzialu w tym Reichstagu (sejmu) W 1934 umarl Hindenburg i Hitler poloaczyl urzad prezydenta z kancleerzem Rowniez w 1934 Hitler zdelegalizowal partie polityczne procz NSDAP. Pomiedzy 1933-1938 bylo okolo piec referendums w ktorych pytano miedzy innymi czy ufa sie Hitlerowi na co 90 % Niemcow odpowiedziala Tak. Co by sie stalo gdyby Szwabi powiedzieli NIE trudno przewidziec. Co roku w styczniu Hitler dawal sprawozdanie dla Reichstagu Ostatni raz co Reichstag (Sejm) przedluzyl prawa dyktatorskie Hitlerowi bylo w 1943 roku. W tym roku panstowo Deutsches Reich zmienil nazwe na Grosse Deutsches Reich. Konstytucja Republiki Weimarskiej nigdy nie zostala uniewazniona lecz w czasie wladzy Hitlera byla martwa litera prawa poniewaz Reichstag dal prawa dyktatorskie Hitlerowi. W 1945 roku przed smiercia Hitler odnowil Republike Weimarska. Kanclerzem nazanczyl Adm Doenitza. Rozlaczyl urzad prezydenta i kanclerza. Rzad Deonitza ktory natychmiast rozwiazal SS istnial do konca maja kiedy zostal zlikwidowany przez Aliantow. To ze Hitler przed samobojstwem rozlaczyl urzedy prezydenta i kanclerza oznaczalo lub moze oznaczac ze on nie uwazal ze 1000-letni Reich powinien trwac w systemie totalitarnym. Natomiast ZSSR uwazalo ze dyktatura proletariatu powinna byc nieomal na wiecznosc i to na calym swiecie. Godlem III Reichu byla niemiecka "gapa". Godlem ZSSR byl sierp i mlot namalowany ponad kula ziemska na ktorej widac bylo wszystkich piec kontynentow. Godlem Prawdy bylo Proletariusze WSZYSTKICH krajow laczcie sie. Godlem Werhmachtu bylo Gott mit uns. Wydaje sie ze dykatura hitlerowcow byla czasowym zjawiskiem Dyktatura proletariatu miala byc az do ostatecznego zwyciestwa a moze i dluzej. Errare humanum est Uczymy sie na wlasnych bledach w nieskonczonosc Dziekuje Polina borowska W polin wrote: > Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski wrote: > > > polin wrote: > > : - HITLER BYL CHYBA JEDYNYM, WYBIERANYM CO DWA LATA W > > : PLEBISCYCIE DYKATOREM W NOWOCZESNEJ HISTORII SWIATA . > > > > W jakich latach te "plebiscyty" sie odbyly i kto jeszcze > > kandydowal?? > > Panie Leszku, > > W plebiscytach cze referendum nie ma wielu kandydatow jest tylko jeden > na ktorego sie glosuje lub przeciw. > > Gdyby Hitlerowi co dwa lata nie przeglosowan praw Furhera - przywodcy - > dyktatora wznowiono by dzialalnosc Reichstagu -Sejmu > > Ostatnie wybory/plebiscyt/referendum na Hitlera odbylo sie w 1943 roku o > ile sie nie myle. > > Poniewaz Pan zadal to (rozsadne) pytanie na ten malo znany a niezmiernie > wazny fakt przjerze podrezniki na ten temat. > > Pozdrawia, > > Polina Borowska. > > PS Jestem pewna ze te wszystkie obelgi ktorymi mnie obsypujecie > uzywacie ich dlatego ze myslicie ze jestem mezczyzna. W zwiazku z tym > nie biore ich do siebie lub na powaznie. Jestem rowniez pewna ze wy > Polacy i polscy Zydzi jestescie zbyt wielkimi dzentelmenami by w tak > okrutny sposob obrazac niewiaste. > > PB > > > > > > > Leszek > > --- > > Smart questions to stupid answers > > Pisz z sensem - rob dwie spacje po kropce From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:29 EDT 1999 Article: 191463 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Roznica miedzy 90% i 99,5% >>Hitler - wybieralnym dyktatorem >>> glosujcie na Papieza Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:52:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 58 Message-ID: <380FD153.6F2B686@catskill.net> References: <0.6e23b89f.253e95de@aol.com> <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net> <7ukiol$1ln$1@readme.uio.no> <380FC3BB.70B83B13@catskill.net> <3812c4b2.6915230@news.mindspring.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191463 Panie Zalek, Tak jak pan pisze w demoludach "wybierano" wiekszocia 99,5% glosow co bylo oczywista fikcja Referenda ktore oglaszal Hitler dawaly mu slowo zaufania w zaledwie 90% co oznacza ze wybory w III Reichu byly wolne lub nieomal wolne. Niemcy naprawde kochali Hitlera jak zlikwidowal bezrobocie. W zwiazku z tym Goldhagen ma racje na 50% ze przecietny Niemiec jest odpowiedzialny za postepki rzadu Hitlera. Jednakze tych drugich 50% to jest to ze hitlerowcy nie mordowali Zydow na przemyslowa skale Z powazaniem Polina "ZalekBloom@hotmail.com" wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:54:03 -0400, polin > wrote: > > > > > > >Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski wrote: > > > >> polin wrote: > >> : - HITLER BYL CHYBA JEDYNYM, WYBIERANYM CO DWA LATA W > >> : PLEBISCYCIE DYKATOREM W NOWOCZESNEJ HISTORII SWIATA . > >> > >> W jakich latach te "plebiscyty" sie odbyly i kto jeszcze > >> kandydowal?? > > > >Panie Leszku, > > > >W plebiscytach cze referendum nie ma wielu kandydatow jest tylko jeden > >na ktorego sie glosuje lub przeciw. > > > >Gdyby Hitlerowi co dwa lata nie przeglosowan praw Furhera - przywodcy - > >dyktatora wznowiono by dzialalnosc Reichstagu -Sejmu > > > >Ostatnie wybory/plebiscyt/referendum na Hitlera odbylo sie w 1943 roku o > >ile sie nie myle. > > > >Poniewaz Pan zadal to (rozsadne) pytanie na ten malo znany a niezmiernie > >wazny fakt przjerze podrezniki na ten temat. > > > >Pozdrawia, > > > >Polina Borowska. > > Tez mi osiagniecie. W PRLu tez wybierano PZPR co pare lat i 99.9% > ludzi glosowalo na Partje. To sie nazwa osiagniecie!!!! > > Mam nadzieje ze tego waznego faktu tez sie nie zapomni, i w > podrecznikach historycznych te fakty beda lezaly bardzo blizko siebie. > > Zalek Bloom From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:30 EDT 1999 Article: 191479 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.new-york.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:44:03 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 1449 Message-ID: <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688503 soc.culture.polish:191479 soc.culture.ukrainian:59474 soc.culture.german:142105 soc.culture.russian:159112 Dear Mr Mc Vay, In the "[present] era of revisionism" (term in editorial in Martyrs and Resistance Dec. 1996) who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained during Nuremberg trials? ... I guess only naive ones or fanatical holocaustians. I will bet on January 27, 1939 The New York Times which explicitly acknowledged that from among the western leaders Hitler was the only one who paid salaries to clergymen of all denominations, while some of them the politically active he interned or imprisoned at Dachau. In 1940, he put behind barbed wires about 1,400 Polish Catholic priests while the others, explicitly less patriotic drew the Nazi salaries, and printed as usual their religous literature on cellulose, a rationed and strategically important material ( used in production of nitrocellulose [smokeless powder and bandages for wounded soldiers]). While Hitler was supportive of apolitical religion and Polish and Ukrainian priests, unimpeeded, printed their religeous literature, another dictator the CPSU Comm Party of the USSR ) abolished virtually all religeous printing in Poland until 1956 and abolished the church (Catholic) of Western Ukraine and imprisoned all of its bishops. Why do you drone and exaggerate about Adolf Hitler and remain silent about Uncle Stalin. Do you have any love for the latter because he was protective of the Communist Jews and played Hatikva on the Moscow Radio and Solomon Lozovsky was his chief of Propaganda? And, while even during the war Hitler was paying clergy's salaries, Roosevelt and Churchill have never done it in the peace time. Greetings from Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > Perhaps Mr. Vangel would like to comment on the Nazi campaign to > destroy Christianity within areas under their control, as outlined > during the first Nuremberg Tribunal? > > (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-means-30.html) > > Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-means-02 > Last-Modified: 1996/06/06 > > [Page 263] > > Chapter VII > > MEANS USED BY THE NAZI CONSPIRATORS IN GAINING > CONTROL OF THE GERMAN STATE > > 6. SUPPRESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES > > A. The Nazi conspirators sought to subvert the influence of > the churches over the people of Germany. > > (1) They sought to eliminate the Christian Churches in > Germany. > > (a) Statements of this aim. Martin Bormann stated in a > secret decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and > distributed to all Gauleiters 7 June 1941: > > "Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than > the con- > > [Page 264] > > cepts of Christianity, which in their essential points > have been taken over from > Jewry ***. A differentiation between the various > Christian confessions is not to be made here *** the > Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the > Catholic Church. *** All influences which might > impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised > by the > Fuehrer with the help of the NSDAP must be eliminated. > More and more the people must be separated from the > churches and their organs the pastors. *** Just as > the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and > other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the > State, so must the possibility of church influence also > be totally removed. *** Not until this has happened, > does the state leadership have influence on > the individual citizens. Not until then are the people > and Reich secure in their existence for all time." (D- > 75) > > Hans Kerrl, Reich Minister for Church Affairs, in a letter > dated 6 September 1939 to a Herr Stapel, which indicated > that it would be brought to the attention of the > Confidential Council and of the defendant Hess, made the > following statements: > > "The Fuehrer considers his efforts to bring the > Evangelical Church to reason, unsuccessful and the > Evangelical Church with respect to its condition > rightfully a useless pile of sects. As you emphasize > the Party has previously carried on not only a fight > against the political element of the Christianity of > the Church, but also a fight against > membership of Party Members in a Christian confession. > *** > > "The Catholic Church will and must, according to the > law under which it is set up, remain a thorn in the > flesh of a Racial State ***." (129-PS) > > Gauleiter Florian, in a letter dated 23 September 1940 to > the defendant Hess, stated: > > "The churches with their Christianity are the danger > against which to fight is absolutely necessary." (064- > PS) > > Regierungsrat Roth, in a lecture 22 September 1941, to a > group of Security Police, in the Reich Main Security Office > (RSHA) concluded his address on Security Police (Sipo) > measures for combatting church politics and sects with the > following remarks: > > "The immediate aim: the church must not regain one inch > of the ground it has lost. The ultimate aim: > Destruction of the Confessional Churches to be brought > about by the collection of all material obtained > through the intelligence service (Nachrihtendienst) > activities which will at a given time be produced as > evidence for the charge of treasonable activities > during the German fight for existence." (1815-PS) > > The Party Organization Book states: > > "Bravery is valued by the SS man as the highest virtue > of men in a struggle for his ideology. > > [Page 265] > > "He openly and unrelentingly fights the most dangerous > enemies of the State; Jews, Free Masons, Jesuits, and > political clergymen. > > "However, he recruits and convinces the weak and > inconstant by his example, who have not been able to > bring themselves to the National Socialistic ideology." > (1855-PS) > > (b) The Nazi conspirators promoted beliefs and practices > incompatible with Christian teachings. The 24th point of the > Program of the NSDAP, unchanged since its adoption in 1920, > is as follows: > > "We demand freedom of religion for all religious > denominations within the state so long as they do not > endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of > the germanic race. The Party as such advocates the > standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding > itself confessionally to any one denomination. It > combats the Jewish materialistic spirit within and > around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of > our nation can only succeed from within on the > framework: common utility precedes individual utility." > (1708-PS) > > In official correspondence with the defendant Rosenberg in > 1040, Bormann stated: > > "Christian religion and National Socialist doctrines > are not compatible. *** The churches cannot be > subjugated through compromise, only through a new > philosophy as prophesied in osenberg's works." > > He then proposed creation of a National Socialist Catechism > to provide a "moral foundation" for a National Socialist > religion which is gradually to supplant the Christian > churches. He stated the matter was so important it should be > discussed with members of the Reich Cabinet as soon as > possible and requested Rosenberg's opinion before the > meeting. (098-PS) > > In a secret decree of the Party Chancellery, signed by > Bormann and distributed to all Gauleiters on 7 June 1941, > the following statements appeared: > > "When we National Socialists speak of a belief in God, > we do not understand by God, like naive Christians and > their spiritual opportunists, a human-type being, who > sits around somewhere in the sphere ***. The force of > natural law, with which all these > innumerable planets move in the universe, we call the > Almighty, or God. The claim that this world force *** > can be influenced by so-called prayers or other > astonishing things is based upon a proper dose of > naivete or on a business shamelessness. > > [Page 265] > > "As opposed to that we National Socialists impose on > ourselves the demand to live naturally as much as > possible, i.e., biologically. The more accurately we > recognize and observe the laws of nature and of life, > the more we adhere to them, so much the more do we > conform to the will of the Almighty. The more insight > we have into the will of the > Almighty, the greater will be our successes." (D-75) > > Rosenberg in his book "The Myth of the 20th Century" > advocated a new National Socialist faith or religion to > replace the Christian confessions in Germany. He stated that > the Catholic and Protestant churches represent "negative > Christianity" and do not correspond to the soul of the > "Nordic racially determined peoples"; that a German > religious movement would have to declare that the idea of > neighborly love is unconditionally subordinated to national > honor; that national > honor is the highest human value and does not admit of any > equal valued force such as Christian love. He predicted: > > "A German religion will, bit by bit, present in the > churches transferred to it, in place of the crucifixion > the spirit of fire the heroicin the highest sense." > (2349-PS) > > The Reich Labor Service (Reichsarbeitsdienst), a National > Socialist youth organization, was prohibited from > participating in religious celebrations of any kind, and its > members were instructed to attend only the parts of such > ceremonies as weddings and funerals which took > place before or after the church celebration. (107-PS) > > The Nazi conspirators considered religious literature > undesirable for the Wehrmacht. National Socialist > publications were prepared for the Wehrmacht for the > expressed purpose of replacing and counteracting the > influence of religious literature disseminated to the > troops. (101-PS; 100-PS; 064-PS) > > The Nazi conspirators through Rosenberg's Office for > Supervision of the Ideological Training and Education of the > NSDAP and the Office of the Deputy of the Fuehrer "induced" > the substitution of National Socialist mottoes and services > for religious prayers and services in the schools of > Germany. (070-PS) > > On 14 July 1939, Bormann, as Deputy of the Fuehrer, issued a > Party regulation excluding clergymen, persons closely > connected with the church, and Theology students from > membership in the Party. It was further decreed that in the > future Party Members who entered the clergy > or turned to the study of Theology must leave the Party. > (840-PS) > > (c) The Nazi conspirators persecuted priests, clergy and > members of monastic orders. The priests and clergy of > Germany were > > [Page 267] > > subjected by the police to systematic espionage into their > daily lives. The Nazi conspirators through the Chief of the > Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) maintained a special > branch of the Security Police and Security Service (Sipo/SD) > whose duties were to investigate the churches and maintain > constant surveillance upon the public and private lives of > the clergy. (1815-PS) > > At a conference of these police "church specialists" called > by Heydrich, who was then SS Gruppenfuehrer and Chief of the > Reich Main Security Office (RSHA), in Berlin, 23 September 1941, SS > Sturmbannfueherer Hartl, acting for Heydrich, stated that > the greatest importance was to > be attached to church political activity. The intelligence > network in this field, he continued, was to be fostered with > the greatest of care and enlarged with the recruitment of > informants, particular value being attached to contacts with > church circles. He closed his lecture with the following > words: > > "Each of you must go to work with your whole heart and > a true fanaticism. Should a mistake or two be made in > the execution of this work, this should in no way > discourage you, since mistakes are made everywhere. The > main thing is that the enemy should be constantly > tackled with determination, will, and effective > initiative." (1815-PS) > > In a letter of 22 October 1941, Heydrich, as Chief of the > Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) issued detailed > instructions to all State Police Offices outlining the > organization of the Catholic Church and directing close > surveillance of the activities, writings, and reports of the > Catholic clergy in Germany. In this connection he directed: > > "Reports are also to be submitted on those Theological > students destined for Papal Institutes, and Priests > returning from such institutes to Germany. Should the > opportunity arise of placing someone for intelligence > (Nachrichtendienst) purposes in one of these > Institutes, in the guise of a Theological student, we > should receive immediate notification." (1815-PS) > > Priests and other members of the clergy were arrested, > fined, imprisoned, and otherwise punished by executive > measures of the police without judicial process. In his > lecture before a conference at the Reich Main Security > Office (RSHA) in Berlin, for "church specialists," of the > Security Police, 22 November 1941, Regierungsrat Roth stated (1815- > PS): > > "It has been demonstrated that it is impracticable to > deal with political offenses (malicious) under normal > legal procedure. Owing to the lack of political > perception which still > > [Page 268] > > prevails among the legal authorities, suspension of > this procedure must be reckoned with. The so-called > "Agitator Priests" must therefore be dealt with in > future by Stapo measures, and, if the occasion arises, > be removed to a Concentration Camp, if agreed upon by > the RSHA. > > "The necessary executive measures are to be decided > upon according to local conditions, the status of the > person accused, and the seriousness of the caseas > follows: > > > 1. Warning > 2. Fine > 3. Forbidden to preach > 4. Forbidden to remain in parish > 5. Forbidden all activity as a priest > 6. Short-term arrest > 7. Protective custody." > > Members of monastic orders were forced by the seizure and > confiscation of their properties to give up their > established place of abode and seek homes elsewhere (R-101- > A; R-101-D). A secret order of the SS Economic > Administration Office to all Concentration Camp Commanders, > dated 21 April 1942, concerning labor mobilization of > clergy, reveals that clergymen were at that time, and had > previously been, incarcerated in Concentration Camps. (1164- > PS) > > On the death of von Hindenburg, the Reich Government ordered > the ringing of all church bells on 2 August 1934, 3 August > 1934 and 4 August 1934. In Bavaria, there were many > instances of failure to comply with this order. The Bavarian > police submitted a report outlining the above situation and > stating that in three cases the taking into protective > custody of recalcitrant clergy could not be avoided. > > "The Parish priest, Father Johann Quinger of > Altenkunstadt BA., Lichtenfels. He was taken into > protective custody on 3 August on the express order of > the State Ministry of the Interior, because he > assaulted SA leaders and SA men who were ringing the > bells against his wishes. He was released from custody > on 10 August 1934. > > "The Parish priest, Father Ludwig Obholzer of > Kiefersfelden, BA Rosenheim. For his personal safety he > was in police custody from 2400 hours on the 2 August > 1934, till 1000 hours on 3 August 1934. On 5 August > 1934, he said sarcastically in his sermon, referring to > the SA men who had carried out the ringing of the > funeral knell on their own account, 'Lord forgive them, > for they know not what they do' ! "The Parish priest, > Father Johann Nepomuk Kleber of Wie- > > [Page 269] > > felsdorf, BA Burglengenfeld, refused to ring the church > bells on the 2nd and 3rd. He is badly tainted > politically and had to be taken into protective custody > from the 5th to the 8th of August 34 in the interests > of his own safety." (1521-PS) > > After Hitler's rise to power, Bishop Sproll of Rottenburg > delivered a series of sermons regarded by the Nazis as > damaging, and on 10 April 1938 he refrained from voting in > the plebiscite. For this, the Reich Governor of Wuertemberg > declared he would no longer regard Bishop Sproll as head of > the Diocese of Rottenburg; made an official request that he > leave the Gau; and declared he would see to it that all > personal and official intercourse between the Bishop and the > State and > Party offices as well as the Armed Forces would be denied > (849-PS). For his alleged failure to vote in the plebiscite, > of 10 April 1938, the Party caused three demonstrations to > be staged against the Bishop and his household in > Rottenburg. The third demonstration was described as > follows in a teletype message from Gestapo Office Stuttgart > to Gestapo Office Berlin: > > "The Party on 23 July 1938 from 2100 on carried out the > third demonstration against Bishop Sproll. Participants > about 2,500-3,000 were brought in from outside by bus, > etc. The Rottenburg populace again did not participate > in the demonstration. The town took rather a hostile > attitude to the demonstrations. The action got > completely out of hand of the Party Member responsible > for it. The demonstrators stormed the palace, beat in > the gates and doors. About 150 to 200 people forced > their way into the palace, searched the rooms, threw > files out of the windows and rummaged through the beds > in the rooms of the palace. One bed was ignited. Before > the fire got to the other objects of equipment in the - > rooms and the palace, the flaming bed could be thrown > from the window and the fire extinguished. The Bishop > was with Archbishop Groeber of Freiburg and the ladies > and gentlemen of his menage in the chapel at prayer. > About 25 to 30 people pressed into this chapel and > molested those present. Bishop Groeber was taken for > Bishop Sproll. He was grabbed by the robe and dragged > back and forth. Finally the intruders realized that > Bishop Groeber is not the one they are seeking. They > could then be persuaded to leave the building. After > the evacuation of the palace by the demonstrators I had > an interview with Archbishop Groeber, who left > Rottenburg in the night. Groeber wants to turn to the > Fuehrer and Reich Minister of the Interior Dr. Frick > anew. On the course of the action, the damage done as > well as the homage > > [Page 270] > > of the Rottenburg populace beginning today for the > Bishop I shall immediately hand in a full report, after > I am in the act of suppressing counter mass meetings." > (848-PS) > > Reich Minister for Church Affairs Kerrl and other Party > officials alleged that these demonstrations were > spontaneously staged by indignant citizens of Rottenburg and > caused representations to be made to the Holy See in an > effort to effect the Bishop's removal from office. (89-PS) > > On or about 3 December 1941, a copy of a secret decree of > the Party Chancellery on the subject of Relationship of > National Socialism to Christianity was found by the Security > Police in the possession of Protestant Priest Eichholz at > Aix-la-Chapelle. For this he was arrested and held for > questioning for an unknown period of time. (D-75) > > (d) The Nazi conspirators confiscated church property. On 20 > January 1938, the Gestapo District Office at Munich issued a > decree dissolving the Guild of the Virgin Mary of the > Bavarian Diocese, together with its branches and > associations. The decree also stated: > > "The property belonging to the dissolved Guild is to be > confiscated by the police. Not only is property in cash > to be confiscated, but also any stock on hand and their > objects of value. All further activity is forbidden the > dissolved Guilds, particularly the foundation of any > organization intended as a successor or as a cover. > Incorporation as a body into other women's societies is > also to be looked on as a forbidden continuation of > activity. Infringements against the above prohibition > will be punished according to par. 4 of the order of 28 > February 1933." > > The reasons for the dissolution and confiscation were that > the Guild of the Virgin Mary had occupied itself for years > "to a most far-reaching degree" with arrangements of a > "worldly and popular sporting character" such as community > games and "social evenings"; and further that the > president of the society supplied the members with > "seditious materials" which served for "seditious > discussions"; and that the members of the Guild were trained > and mobilized for "political and seditious tasks." (1481- > PS) > > In a lecture delivered to a conference of police > investigators of Church Affairs assembled in the lecture > hall of the Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) in Berlin, 22 > September 1941, Regiersrungsrat Roth stated that about 100 > monasteries in the Reich had been dissolved and pointed out > that the proper procedure called for seizure of the churches > at the same time the monasteries were dissolved. (1815-PS) > > [Page 271] > > In February 1940, SS Gruppenfuehrer Heydrich suggested to > Himmler the seizure of monasteries for the accommodation of > Racial Germans. He proposed that the authorities of the > monastic orders be instructed to make the monasteries > concerned available and move their own members to less > populous monasteries. He pointed out that the final > expropriation of properties thus placed at their disposal > could be carried out step by step in the course of time. > Himmler agreed to this proposal and ordered the measure to > be carried out by the Security Police and > Security Service (Sipo and SD) in collaboration with the > Reich Commissioner for Consolidation of German Folkdom. (R- > 101-A) > > These orders for confiscation were carried out, as revealed > in a letter dated 30 March 1942 from the Reich Main Security > Office (RSHA) Chief of Staff to Himmler mentioning claims > for compensation pending in a number of confiscation cases. > In this letter he stated that all rental > payments to those monasteries and ecclesiastical > institutions whose premises had been put to use as camps for > resettlers had been stopped on receipt of Himmler's order. > Concerning current developments, he stated: > > "After further preparations in which-the Party > Chancellery participated prominently, the Reich > Minister of the Interior found a way which makes it > possible to seize ecclesiastical premises practically > without compensation and yet avoids the impression of > being a measure directed against the Church. ***" (R- > 101-D) > > In a letter of 19 April 1941, Bormann advised Rosenberg that > libraries and art objects of the monasteries confiscated in > the Reich were to remain for the time being in these > monasteries and that the Fuehrer had repeatedly rejected the > suggestion that centralization of all such libraries be > undertaken. (072-PS) > > (e) The Nazi conspirators suppressed religious publications. > On 6 November 1934, Frick, as Reich and Prussian Minister of > the Interior, issued an order forbidding until further > notice publication of all announcements in the daily press, > in pamphlets and other publications, > which dealt with the Evangelical Church; with the exception > of official announcements of the Church Government of the > Reich. (1498-PS) > > By order of the State Police for the District of Dusseldorf, > the Police Regulation which is quoted in part below was > promulgated 28 May 1934: > > "The distribution and sale of published items of any > sort in connection with worship or religious > instructions in public streets or squares near churches > is forbidden. In the same sense the distribution and > sale of published items on the oc- > > [Page 272] > > casions of processions, pilgrimages and similar church > institutions in the streets or squares they pass > through or in their vicinity is prohibited." (R-145) > > In January 1940, Bormann informed Rosenberg that he had > sought to restrict production of religious publications by > means of having their rations of printing paper cut down > through the control exercised by Reichsleiter Amann, but > that the result of these efforts remained > unsatisfactory. (101-PS) > > In March 1940, Bormann instructed Reichsleiter Amann, > Director of the NSDAP Publications Office, that in any > future redistribution of paper, confessional writings should > receive still sharper restrictions in favor of literature > politically and ideologically more valuable. He went on to > point out: > > " *** according to a report I have received, only 10 > of the over 3000 Protestant periodicals appearing in > Germany, such as Sunday papers, etc. have ceased > publication for reasons of paper saving." (089-PS) > > In April 1940, Bormann informed the High Command of the Navy > that use of the term "Divine Service" to refer exclusively > to the services arranged by Christian Confessions was no > longer to be used, even in National Socialist daily papers. > In the alternative he suggested: > > "In the opinion of the Party the term 'Church Service' > cannot be objected to. I consider it fitting since it > properly implies meetings arranged and organized by the > Churches." (068-PS) > > (f) The Nazi conspirators suppressed religious > organizations. On 28 May 1934, the State Police Office for > the District of Duesseldorf issued an order concerning > denominational youth and professional organizations which > stated in part as follows: > > "Denominational youth and professional organizations as > well as those created for special occasions only are > prohibited from every public activity outside the > church and religious sphere. > > "Especially forbidden is: Any public appearance in > groups, all sorts of political activity. Any public > sport function including public hikes and establishment > of holiday or outdoor camps. The public display or > showing of flags, banners, pennants or the open wearing > of uniforms or insignia." (R-145) > > On 20 July 1935, Frick, as Reich and Prussian Minister of > the Interior, issued secret instructions to the provincial > governments and to the Prussian Gestapo that Confessional > youth organizations were to be forbidden to wear uniforms, > or uniform- > > [Page 273] > > like clothing, to assemble publicly with pennants and flags, > to wear insignia as a substitute for uniforms, or to engage > in any outdoor sport activity. > > On 20 January 1938 the Gestapo District Office at Munich, > issued a decree which stated in part as follows: > > "The Guild of the Virgin Mary (de Marianisch > Jungfrauenkongregation) of the Bavarian dioceses, > including the diocese of Speyere, together with its > branches and associations and the Societies of Our Lady > (Jungfrauenverenen) attached to it, is by police order > to be dissolved and forbidden with immediate effect." > > Among the reasons cited for this action were the following: > > "The whole behavior of the Guild of the Virgin Mary had > therefore to be objected to from various points of > view. It could be repeatedly observed that the Guild > engaged in purely worldly affairs, such as community > games, and then in the holding of 'Social Evenings'. > > "This proves incontestably that the Guild of the Virgin > Mary was active to a very great degree in a manner > unecclesiastical and therefore worldly. By so doing it > has left the sphere of its proper religious task and > entered a sphere of activity to which it has no > statutory right. The organization has therefore to be > dissolved and forbidden." (1481-PS) > > According to the report of a Security Police "church > specialist" attached to the State Police Office at Aachen, > the following points were made by a lecturer at a conference > of Security Police and Security Service church intelligence > investigators in Berlin, on 22 September 1941: > > "Retreats, recreational organizations, etc., may now be > forbidden on ground of industrial war-needs, whereas > formerly only a worldly activity could be given as a > basis. > > "Youth camps, recreational camps are to be forbidden on > principle, church organizations in the evening may be > pre vented on grounds of the blackout regulations. > > "Processions, pilgrimages abroad are to be forbidden by > reason of the over-burdened transport conditions. For > local events too technical traffic troubles and the > danger of air attack may serve as grounds for their > prohibition. (One Referent forbade a procession, on the > grounds of it wearing out shoe leather)." (1815-PS) > > (g) The Nazi conspirators suppressed religious education. In > a speech on 7 March 1937, Rosenberg stated: > > "The education of youth can only be carried out by > those who have rescued Germany from disaster. It is > therefore > > [Page 274] > > impossible to demand one Fuehrer, one Reich and one > firmly united people as long as education is carried > out by forces which are mutually exclusive to each > other." (2351-PS) > > In a speech at Fulda, 27 November 1937 Reich Minister for > Church Affairs Hans Kerrl stated: > > "We cannot recognize that the Church has a right to > insure that the individual should be educated in all > respects in the way in which it holds to be right; but > we must leave it to the National Socialist State to > educate the child in the way it regards as right." (252- > PS) > > In January 1939, Bormann, acting as Deputy of the Fuehrer, > informed the Minister of Education, that the Party was > taking the position that theological inquiry was not as > valuable as the general fields of knowledge in the > universities and that suppression of Theological Faculties > in the universities was to be undertaken at once. He pointed > out that the Concordat with the Vatican placed certain > limitations on such a program, but that in the light of the > general change of > circumstances, particularly the compulsory military service > and the execution of the four-year plan, the question of > manpower made certain reorganizations, economies and > simplification necessary. Therefore, Theological Faculties > were to be restricted insofar as they could not > be wholly suppressed. He instructed that the churches were > not to be informed of this development and no public > announcement was to be made. Any complaints, if they were to > be replied to at all, should be answered with a statement > that these measures are being executed in a general plan of > reorganization and that similar things are happening to > other faculties. He concludes with the statement that the > professorial chairs vacated by the above program are to be > turned over to the newly created fields of inquiry, such as > Racial Research. (116-PS) > > A plan for the reduction of Theological Faculties was > submitted by the Reich Minister for Science, Education and > Training in April 1939 to Bormann, who forwarded it to > Rosenberg for consideration and action. The plan called for > shifting, combining and eliminating Theological > Faculties in various schools and universities throughout the > Reich, with the following results: > > "To recapitulate this plan would include the complete > closing of Theological Faculties at Innsbruck, Salzburg > and Munich, the transfer of the faculty of Graz to > Vienna and the vanishing of four Catholic faculties. > > "a. Closing of three Catholic Theological Faculties or > Higher Schools and of four Evangelic Faculties in the > winter semester 1939/40. > > [Page 275] > > "b. Closing of one further Catholic and of three- > further Evangelic Faculties in the near future." (122- > PS) > > In a secret decree of the Party Chancellery, signed by > Bormann, and distributed to all Gauleiters on 7 June 1941, > the following statement concerning religious education was > made: > > "No human being would know anything of Christianity if > it had not been drilled into him in his childhood by > pastors. The so-called dear God in no wise gives > knowledge of his existence to young people in advance, > but in an astonishing manner in spite of his > omnipotence leaves this to the efforts of the pastors. > If therefore in the future our youth learns nothing > more of this Christianity, whose doctrines are far > below ours, Christianity will disappear by itself." (D- > 75) > > (2) Supplementary evidence of acts of oppression within > Germany. In laying the groundwork for their attempted > subversion of the Church, the Nazi conspirators resorted to > assurances of peaceful intentions. Thus Hitler, in his > address to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933 declared: > > "While the government is determined to carry through > the political and moral purging of our public life, it > is creating and insuring prerequisites for a truly > religious life. The government sees in both Christian > confessions the factors most important for the > maintenance of our Folkdom. It will respect agreements > concluded between them and the states. However, it > expects that its work will meet with a similar > appreciation. The government will treat all other > denominations with equal objective justice. However, it > can never condone that belonging to a certain > denomination or to a certain race might be regarded as > a license to commit or tolerate crimes. The Government > will devote its > care to the sincere living together of Church and > State." (3387-PS) > > (a) Against the Evangelical Churches. The Nazi conspirators, > upon their accession to power, passed a number of laws, > under innocent-sounding titles, designed to reduce the > Evangelical Churches to the status of an obedient instrument > of Nazi policy. The following are illustrative: > > [Page 276] > > Document Number Date Reichsgesetzblatt Title and Gist of Law > Page > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > 3433-PS 14.7.33 I.471 > > Gesetz ueher die > Verfassun der Deutschen > Evanelischen Kirche (Law > concerning the > Constitution of the > German Evangelical > Church), establishing > among other things the > new post of Reich Bishop. > [Signed by] Hitler, > Frick. > > 3434-PS 26.6.35 I.774 > > Gesetz ueer das > BesGhlussverfahren in > Rechtsaneleenheite der > Evanelisschen Kirche (Law > concerning procedure for > decisions in legal > affairs of the > Evangelical Church), > giving the Reich Ministry > of the Interior sole > authority to determine > the validity of measures > taken in the Churches > since 1 May 1933, when > raised in a civil > lawsuit. [Signed by] > Hitler, Frick. > > 3435-PS 3.7.35 I.851 > > Erste Verordnung zur > Durchfuehrung des > Gesetzes ueber das > Reschluss-verfahren in > Rechtsanelegenheiten der > Evanelischen Kirche > (First Ordinance for > Execution of the Law > concerning procedure for > decisions in legal > affairs of the > Evangelical Church), > setting up detailed > organization and > procedures under the law > of 21 June 1935. [Signed > by] Frick. > > 3466-PS 16.7.35 I.1029 > > Erlass ueber die Zusammen > fassung der > Zustaendiykeiten des > Reichs und Preussens in > Kirchenaneleenheiten > (Decree to unite the > competences of Reich and > Prussia in Church > affairs) transferring to > Kerrl, Minister without > Portfolio, the church > affairs previously > handled by Reich and > Prussian Ministers of the > Interior and of Science, > Education, and Training. > [Signed by] Hitler, Rust, > Koerner. > > [Page 277] > > > 3436-PS 24.9.35 I.1178 > > Gesetz zur Sicherun der > Deutschen Evangelischen > Kirche (Law for the > Safeguarding of the > German Evangelical > Church) empowering the > Reich Minister of Church > Affairs (Kerrl) to issue > Ordinances with binding > legal force. [Signed by] > Hitler, Frick. > > 3437-PS 2.12.35 I.1370 > > Fuenfte Verordnung Zur > Durchfuehrun des Gesetzes > zur Siherun der Deutschen > Evanelischen Kirche > (Fifth decree for > execution of the law for > the Safeguarding of the > German Evangelical > Church) prohibiting the > churches from filling > their pastorates, > ordaining ministers, > visitation, publishing of > banns, and collecting > dues and assessments. > [Signed by] Kerrl. > > 3439-PS 25.6.37 I.697 > > Fuenfzehnte Verordnun zur > Durchfuehrun des Gesetzes > zur Sicherung der > Deutschen Evanyelischen > Kirche (Fifteenth decree > for the Execution of the > Law for Security of the > German Evangelical > Church) establishing in > the Reich Ministry for > Church Affairs a Finance > Department, to supervise > administration of the > church property budget, > tax assessment, and use > of budget funds. [Signed > by] Kerrl. > > With the help of their Reich Bishop, Bishop Mueller, they > maneuvered the Evangelical Youth Association into the Hitler > Jugend under Von Schirach in December 1933. (1458-PS) > > They arrested prominent Protestant leaders such as Pastor > > [Page 278] > > Niemoeller. By 1937, the result of all these measures was > complete administrative control by the Nazi conspirators > over the Evangelical churches. > > (b) Against the Catholic Church. Just as in their program > against the Evangelical Churches, so in their attack on the > Catholic Church, the Nazi conspirators concealed their real > intentions under a cloak of apparent respect for its rights > and protection of its activities. On 20 July 1933, a > Concordat was concluded between the Holy See and the German > Reich, signed for the Reich by Von Papen (280-A-PS). It was > the Nazi Government, not the Church, which initiated the > negotiations. > > "The German Government asked the Holy See to conclude a > Concordat with the Reich." (268-PS) > > By Article I of the Concordat, > > "The German Reich guarantees freedom of profession and > public practice of the Catholic religion. > > "It acknowledges the right of the Catholic Church, > within the limit of those laws which are applicable to > all, to manage and regulate her own affairs > independently, and, within the framework of her own > competence, to publish laws and ordinances binding on > her members." (3280-A-PS) > > Other articles formulated agreements on basic principles > such as free communication between Rome and the local > ecclesiastical authorities, freedom of the Catholic press, > of Catholic education and of Catholic action in charitable, > professional, and youth organizations. In return, > the Vatican pledged loyalty by the clergy to the Reich > Government and emphasis in religious instruction on the > patriotic duties of the Christian citizen. (3280-A-PS) > > In reliance upon assurances by the Nazi conspirators, the > Catholic hierarchy had already revoked their previous > prohibition against Catholics becoming members of the Nazi > Party (389 PS). The Catholic Center Party, under a > combination of Nazi pressure and assurances, > published on 29 December 1933, an announcement of its > dissolution (2403-PS). Thus the Catholics went a long way to > disarm themselves and cooperate with the Nazis. > Nevertheless, the Nazi conspirators continued to develop > their policy of slow strangulation of religion, first in > covert, and then in open, violation of their assurances and > agreements. > > In the Encyclical "Mt Brenneder Sorge", on 14 March 1937, Pope > Pius XI described the program: > > "It discloses intrigues which from the beginning had no > other aim than a war of extermination. In the furrows > in which we had labored to sow the seeds of true peace, > others like the enemy in Holy Scripture (Matt. xiii, > 25) sowed > > [Page 279] > > the tares of suspicion, discord, hatred, calumny of > secret and open fundamental hostility to Christ and His > Church, fed from a thousand different sources and > making use of every available means. On them and on > them alone and on their silent and vocal protectors > rests the responsibility that now on the horizon of > Germany there is to be seen not the rainbow of peace > but the threatening storm clouds of destructive > religious wars. *** Anyone who has any sense of truth > left in his mind and even a shadow of the feeling of > justice left in his heart will have to admit that, in > the difficult and eventful years which followed the > Concordat, every word and every action of Ours was > ruled by loyalty to the terms of the agreement; but > also he will have to recognize with surprise and deep > disgust that the unwritten law of the other party has > been arbitrary misinterpretation of agreements, evasion > of agreements, evacuation of the meaning of agreements, > and > finally more or less open violation of agreements." > (3280-PS) > > The Nazis suppressed the Catholic Youth League, beginning > ten days after the concordat was signed. (See Section 8, > infra.) > > On 18 January 1942, in declining to accede to a demand made > by the German Government that no further appointment of > Archbishops, Bishops, and other high administrative > dignitaries be made in the new territories of the Reich, or > of certain of them within the old Reich, without previous > consultation with the German Government (3261-PS), the > Secretary of State of Pope Pius XII pointed to measures > taken by the German Government, > > "Contrary not only to the existing Concordats and to > the principles of international law ratified by the > Second Hague conference, but oftenand this is much more > graveto the very fundamental principles of divine law, > both natural and positive." > > The Papal Secretary of State continued: > > "Let it suffice to recall in this connection, among > other things, the changing of the Catholic State > elementary schools into undenominational schools; the > permanent or temporary closing of many minor > seminaries, of not a few major seminaries and of some > theological faculties; the suppression of almost all > the private schools and of numerous Catholic boarding > schools and colleges; the repudiation, decided > unilaterally, of financial obligations which the State, > Municipalities etc. had towards the Church; the > increasing difficulties put in the way of the activity > of the religious Orders and Congregations in the > spiritual, cultural and social field > > [Page 280] > > and above all the suppression of Abbeys, monasteries, > convents and religious houses in such great numbers > that one is led to infer a deliberate intention of > rendering impossible the very existence of the Orders > and Congregations in Germany. > > "Similar and even graver acts must be deplored in the > annexed and occupied territories, especially in the > Polish territories and particularly in the Reichsgau > Wartheland, for which the Reich Superintendent - has > issued, under date of September 13th last, a > 'Decree concerning Religious Associations and Religious > Societies' (Verordnung uber eligioese Vereinigngen und > Religion-gesellschaften) in clear opposition to the > fundamental principles of the divine constitution of > the Church." (3261-PS) > > Illustrative of the numerous other cases and specific > incidents which might be adduced as the program of > suppression was carried into action within Germany proper, > are the measures adopted beginning in 1936 to eliminate the > priest Rupert Mayer of Munich. Because of his sermons, he > was confined in various prisons, arrested and rearrested, > interned in Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen concentration camp, > and the Ettal Monastery, from which he was released by > Allied troops in May 1945, and later died. '(372-PS) > > (c) Against other religious groups. > > Members of the sect known as "BibelJorscher"meaning "Members > of a Biblical Society" or "Bible-Researchers"were as early > as 1937 sent as a routine matter to concentration camps by > the Gestapo, even after serving of a sentence imposed by a > court or.after the cancellation of > an arrest order (D-84). At one camp aloneDachauthere were > over 150 "Bibelforscher" in protective custody in 1937. > (2928-PS) > > B. Acts of suppression of the Christian Churches in Annexed > an Occupied Territories. > > (1) In Austria. The methods of suppression of churches > followed in Austria by the occupying power began with > measures to exclude the Church from public activities, such > as processions, printing of newspapers and Reviews which > could spread Christian doctrines; from forming Youth > organizations, such as Boy Scouts; from directing > educational or charitable activities; and even from > extending help in the form of food to foreigners. Unable in > conscience to obey the public > prescription, ministers of religions were arrested and sent > to concentration camps, and some were executed. Churches > were closed, convents and mon- > > [Page 281] > > asteries suppressed, and educational property confiscated. > The total number of confiscations, suppressions, or > alienations of religious institutions exceeded 100 cases in > one diocese alone. (3278-PS) > > The Lutheran Church in Austria, though comprising a small > minority of the population, was subjected to organized > oppression. Its educational efforts were obstructed or > banned. Believers were encouraged, and sometimes > intimidated, to repudiate their faith. Lutheran pastors were > given to understand that a government position would be > awarded to each one who would renounce his ministry and if > possible withdraw from the Lutheran Church. (3273-PS) > > Tn summation of the period of Nazi domination and in review > of the attempted suppression of the Christian Church, the > Archbishops and Bishops of Austria in their first joint > Pastoral after liberation declared: > > "At an end also is an intellectual battle, the goal of > which was the destruction of Christianity and the > Church among our people; a campaign of lies and > treachery against truth and love, against divine and > human rights and against international law." (3274-PS) > > (2) In Czechoslovakia. The Czechoslovak Official Report for > the prosecution and trial of the German Major War Criminals > by the International Military Tribunal established according > to the Agreement of the Four Great Powers of 8 August 1945 > describes in summary form the measures taken by the Nazi > conspirators to suppress religious liberties and persecute > the churches. The following excerpts are quoted from this > report (998-PS): > > "(a) Catholic Church. > > "*** At the outbreak of war, 487 Catholic priests > were among the thousands of Czech patriots arrested and > sent to concentration camps as hostages. Venerable high > ecclesiastical dignitaries were dragged to > concentration camps in Germany. *** Religious orders > were dissolved and liquidated, their charitable > institutions closed down and their members expelled or > else forced to compulsory labor in Germany. All > religious instruction in Czech schools was suppressed. > Most of the weeklies and monthlies which the Catholics > had published in Czechoslovakia, had been suppressed > from the very beginning of the occupation. The Catholic > gymnastic organization "Orel" with 800,000 > members was dissolved and its Property was confiscated. > To a > > [Page 282] > > great extent Catholic church property was seized for > the benefit of the Reich. > > "(b) Czechoslovak National Church. > > "*** The Czechoslovak Church in Slovakia was entirely > prohibited and its property confiscated under German > compulsion in 1940. It has been allowed to exist in > Bohemia and Moravia but in a crippled form under the > name of the Czecho-Moravian Church. > > "(c) Protestant Churches. > > "The Protestant Churches were deprived of the freedom > to preach the gospel. German secret state police > watched closely whether the clergy observed the > restrictions imposed on it. *** Some passages from > the Bible were not allowed to be read in public at all. > *** > > "* * Church leaders were especially persecuted, scores > of ministers were imprisoned in concentration camps, > among them the General Secretary of the Students' > Christian Movement in Czechoslovakia. One of the Vice- > Presidents was executed. > > "Protestant Institutions such as the YMCA and YWCA were > suppressed throughout the country. > > "The leading Theological School for all Evangelical > denominations, HUS Faculty in Prague and all other > Protestant training schools for the ministry were > closed down in November 1939, with the other Czech > universities and colleges. > > "(d) Czech Orthodox Church. > > "The hardest blow was directed against the Czech > Orthodox Church. The Orthodox churches in > Czechoslovakia were ordered by the Berlin Ministry of > Church Affairs to leave the Pontificate of Belgrade and > Constantinople respectively and to become subordinate > to the Berlin Bishop. The Czech Bishop Gorazd was > executed together with two other priests of the > Orthodox Church. By a special order of the Protector > Daluege, issued in September 1942, the Orthodox Church > of Serbian Constantinople jurisdiction was completely > dissolved in the Czech lands, its religious activity > forbidden and its property > > "All Evangelical education was handed over to the civil > authorities and many Evangelical teachers lost their > employment; moreover the State grant to salaries of > many evangelical priests was taken away." (998-PS) > > (3) In Poland. The repressive measures levelled against the > Christian Church in Poland where Hans Frank was Governor- > > [Page 283] > > General from 1939 to 1945, were even more drastic and > sweeping. In protest against the > systematic strangulation of religion, the Vatican, on 8 > October 1942, addressed a memorandum to the German Embassy > accredited to the Holy See in which the Secretariat of State > emphasized the fact that despite previous protests to the > Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Reich, von > Ribbentrop, the religious condition of the Catholics in the > Warthegau "has become even sadder and more tragic." This > memorandum states: > > "For quite a long time the religious situation in the > Warthegau gives cause for very grave and ever > increasing anxiety. There, in fact, the Episcopate has > been little by little almost completely eliminated; the > secular and regular clergy have been reduced to > proportions that are absolutely inadequate, because > they have been in large part deported and exiled; the > education of clerics has been forbidden; the Catholic > education of youth is meeting with the greatest > opposition; the nuns have been dispersed; > insurmountable obstacles have been put in the way of > affording people the helps of religions; very many > churches have been closed; Catholic intellectual and > charitable institutions have been destroyed; > ecclesiastical property has been seized." (3263-PS) > > On 18 November 1942 the Papal Secretary of State requested > the Archbishop of Breslau, Cardinal Bertram, to use every > effort to assist Polish Catholic workers transferred to > Germany, who were being deprived of the consolations of > religion. In addition, he again appealed for help for the > Polish priests detained in various concentration camps, > whose death rate was "still on the increase." (3265-PS). On > 7 December 1942 the Cardinal Archbishop of Breslau replied > that all possible efforts were being put forward by the > German Bishops without success on behalf of the victims of > concentration camps and labor battalions, and deplored "the > intolerable decrees" against religious ministration to > Poles. (3266-PS) > > On 2 March 1943, the Cardinal Secretary of State addressed a > note to von Ribbentrop, Reichsminister for Foreign Affairs, > in which the violations of religious rights and conscience > among the civilian population of Poland were set out in > detail, and the time, locality, and character of the > persecutions were specified. Priests and Ecclesiastics were > still being arrested, thrust into concentration camps, and > treated with scorn and derision, while many had been > summarily executed. Religious instruction was hampered; > Catholic schools were closed; the use of the Polish lan- > > [Page 284] > > guage in sacred functions and even in the Sacrament of > Penance was forbidden. Even the natural right of marriage > was denied to men of Polish nationality under 28 years of > age to women under 25. In the territory called "General > Government" similar conditions existed and against these the > Holy See vigorously protested. To save the harassed and > persecuted leaders of the Catholic Church, the Vatican had > petitioned that they be allowed to emigrate to neutral > countries of Europe or America. The only concession made was > that they would all be collected in one concentration camp > Dachau. (3264-PS) > > The Nazi conspirators adopted a dilatory and obstructionist > policy toward complaints as to religious affairs in the > overrun territories, and a decision was "taken by those > competent to do so. *** that no further consideration will > be taken of proposals or requests concerning the territories > which do not belong to the Old Reich." (3262-PS) > > "Those competent" to make decisions on complaints as to > religious affairs in the overrun territories -- especially > the Party Chancery, headed by Bormann -- the methods they > used, and the reasons for their attitude are outlined by the > Cardinal Archbishop of Breslau, a German > living in Germany, in a letter to the Papal Secretary of > State on 7 December 1942 as follows: > > "Your Eminence knows very well the greatest difficulty > in the way of opening negotiations comes from the > overruling authority which the "National Socialist > Party Chancery" (Kanzlei der Nazion-sozstschen Parez, > known as the Partei-Kanzlei) exercises in relation to > the Chancery of the Reich (Reichskanzlei) and to the > single Reich Ministries. This 'Parteikanzlei' directs > the course to be followed by the State, whereas the > Ministries and the Chancery of the Reich are obliged > and compelled to adjust their decrees to these > directions. Besides, there is the fact that the > "Supreme Office for the Security of the Reich" called > the 'Reichsscherheitshauptamt' enjoys an authority > which precludes all legal action and all appeals. Under > it are the 'Secret Offices for Public Security' called > 'Geheime Staatspolizei' (a title shortened usually to > Gestapo) of which there is one for each Province. > Against the decrees of this Central Office > (Reichsscherheitshauptamt) and of the Secret Offices > (Geheime Staatspolizei) there is no appeal through the > Courts, and no complaint made to the Ministries has any > effect. Not infrequently the Councillors of the > Ministries suggest that they have not been able to do > as they would wish to, because of the opposition of > these Party offices. As far as the executive > > [Page 285] > > power is concerned, the organization called the SS, > that is Schutzstaffeln der Partei, is in practice > supreme. > > "This hastily sketched interrelation of authorities is > the reason why many of the petitions and protests made > by the Bishops to the Ministries have been foiled. Even > if we present our complaints to the so-called Supreme > Security Office, there is rarely any reply; and when > there is, it is negative. > > "On a number of very grave and fundamental issues we > have also presented our complaints to the Supreme > Leader of the Reich (Fuehrer). Either no answer is > given, or it is apparently edited by the above- > mentioned Party Chancery, which does not consider > itself bound by the Concordat made with the Holy See." > (3266-PS) > > The interchange of correspondence following the transmission > of the above-described note of 2 March 1943 on the religious > situation in the overrun Polish Provinces illustrates the > same evasive tactics. (3269-PS) > > In his Allocution to the Sacred College, on 2 June 1945, His > Holiness Pope Pius XII recalled, byway of example, "some > details from the abundant accounts which have reached us > from priests and laymen who were interned in the > concentration camp at Dachau": > > "In the forefront, for the number and harshness of the > treatment meted out to them, are the Polish priests. > From 1940 to 1945, 2,800 Polish ecclesiastics and > religious were imprisoned in that camp; among them was > the Auxiliary bishop of Wloclawek, who died there of > typhus. In April last there were left only 816, all the > others being dead except > for two or three transferred to another camp. In the > summer of 1942, 480 German-speaking ministers of > religion were known to be gathered there; of these, 45 > were Protestants, all the others Catholic priests. In > spite of the continuous inflow of new internees, > especially from some dioceses of Bavaria, Rhenania and > Westphalia, their number, as a result of the high rate > of mortality, at the beginning of this year, did not > surpass 350. Nor should we pass over in silence these > belonging to occupied territories, Holland, Belgium, > France (among whom the Bishop of Clermont), Luxembourg, > Slovenia, Italy. Many of those priests and laymen > endured indescribable sufferings for their faith and > for their vocation. In one case the hatred of the > impious against Christ > reached the point of parodying on the person of an > > [Page 286] > > interned priest, with barbed wire, the scourging and > the crowning with thorns of our > Redeemer." (3268-PS) > > Further revealing figure on the persecution of Polish > priests are contained in the following extract from Charge > No. 17 against Hans Frank, Governor-General of Poland, > submitted by the Polish Government, entitled "Maltreatment > and Persecution of the Catholic Clergy in the Western > Provinces": > > "IV. GENERAL CONDITIONS AND RESULTS OF THE PERSECUTION > > 11. The general situation of the clergy in the > Archdiocese of Poznan in the beginning of April 1940 is > summarized in the following words of Cardinal Hlond's > second report: > > 5 priests shot > > 27 priests confined in harsh concentration camps at > Stutthof and in other camps > > 190 priests in prison or in concentration camps at > Bruczkow, Chludowo, Goruszki, Kazimierz, Biskupi, Lad, > Lubin and Puszczykowo, > > 35 priests expelled into the Government General, > > 11 priests seriously ill in consequence of ill- > treatment, > > 122 parishes entirely left without priests.' > > 12. In the diocese of Chefmno,. where about 650 priests > were installed before the war only 30 were allowed to > stay, the 97% of them were imprisoned, executed or put > into concentration camps. > > 13. By January 141 about 7000 priests were killed, 3000 > were in prison or concentration camps." (3279-PS) > > The Allocution of Pope Pius XII on 2 June 1945 described > National Socialism as "the arrogant apostasy from Jesus > Christ, the denial of His doctrine and of His work of > redemption, the cult of violence, the idolatry of race and > blood, the overthrow of human liberty and dignity." It > summarized the attacks of "National Socialism" on the > Catholic Church in these terms: > > "The struggle against the Church did, in fact, become > even more bitter: there was the dissolution of Catholic > organizations; the gradual suppression of the > flourishing Catholic schools,-both public and private; > the enforced weaning of youth from family and Church; > the pressure brought to bear on the conscience of > citizens, and especially of civil servants; the > systematic defamation, by means of a clever, closely > organized propaganda, of the Church, the clergy, the > faithful, the Church's institutions, teaching and > history; the closing, dissolution, confiscation of > religious houses and other ecclesiastical institutions; > the complete suppression of the Catholic press and > publishing houses." (3268-PS) > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:30 EDT 1999 Article: 191481 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:04:15 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 57 Message-ID: <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688508 soc.culture.polish:191481 Daniel Keren wrote: > polin wrote: > > # Eichmann also testified about geysers of blood in Lemberg (presently Lviv > # capital of Western Ukraine), a sheer absurd. > > This phenomena was described by others, including Albert Hartel, > who testified about the gases, released from many thousands of > buried corpses, causing "small columns of earth" to rise. It was > soaked with blood, hence Eichmann's description. > > # Daniel would you be able to prove anything Eichman said archeologically > # or with air photos? > > Have you heard about the recent excavations in Belzec, "Polina"? Even Ken Mc Vey could not obtain complete report just meaningless snippets. Even the UNITED STATES HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM and RESEARCH INSTITUTE do not have complete report just meaningless snippets. How about you an holocaustian exterminationist and me the holocaust revisionists in the background try to obtain the COMPLETE report???! If it will show industrial murder of Jews I will instantly become one of you again. Did you hear about the 1966, 33 years old massive Hydrokop Report on Birkenau and by the Dept of Archeology of Lodz University ? With your help and unadultured holocaustian faith perhaps they will give it to you with me in the background. Are we going to try Mr Keren??? Polina Borowska My fluency in Polish might be of advantage. PS I am astonished that you might for a second believe in the geysers. Check with any geologist or agronomist or a farmer who burried cattle dying en masse of epidemics. There were no geysers of blood at Katyn, Palmiry, Miednoje, Kharkiv, Vynnytsia where executed Slavs were burried. But perhaps Jewish blood is different and it errupts in geysers or these are just eruptions of the Jewish Group Fantasies of Martyrdom [and Omnipotence]> > > > -Danny Keren. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:30 EDT 1999 Article: 191497 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 02:40:22 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 90 Message-ID: <381006D5.1E297F07@catskill.net> References: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688521 soc.culture.polish:191497 Dear Mr. Karen, Thank you for posting the table about the atrocious death rate of the Polish priests at Dachau. It pains me especially, since I am Polish and WW II holocaust revisionist. I have studied in detail the massive 1200 pages source book on the fate of the imprisoned clergymen at Dachau. Your table shows that only Polish priests suffered such a tramendous death rate at this camp while priests of other nationalities did NOT. What your table does not show is the data which indicates that many if not most of the priests were in the age group 35-45 years old. Such young men should not die. We revisionists blame death at concentration camps on epidemics. But at Dachau the epidemics were quite well controlled. During some months hardly any prisoners died. So why about 800 almost half of Polish priests died??? By the age of 30 especially non-urban Poles were quite resistant to typhus and dysentery. Moreover about 300 professors frequently elderly of the Jagiellonian University were interned at Dachau and hardly any of them died after near six years of incarceration! The source book on the deaths of the priests at Dachau seems to use authenticated data. I invite revisionists, especially prof Faurisson who studied Dachau exhaustively, to explain this death rate of the Polish priests. Until I hear from other revisionists I must agree with Mr. Keren that these priests were essentially murdered if not by bullet then by indirect methods. Polina Borowska. And if they were murdered I ask a knowledgable Holocaust believer to explain to my why they were murdered. With courteous responses please reply to my email address also. Daniel Keren wrote: > Priests in Dachau classified according to nationality > and religion. Note very high number (and percentage) of > Polish priests who were murdered in the camp. > > Source: SS records, quoted in "Concentration Camp Dachau", > ISBN 3-87490-528-4, p. 60. > > Nationality Total Released Transferred Liberated Deaths > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Albanian 2 - 2 - - > Belgian 46 1 3 33 9 > Danish 5 5 - - - > German 447 208 100 45 94 > English 2 - 1 1 - > French 156 5 4 137 10 > Greek 2 - - 2 - > Dutch 63 10 - 36 17 > Italian 28 - 1 26 1 > Lithuanian 3 - - 3 - > Luxemburg 16 2 - 8 6 > Norwegian 1 1 - - - > Polish 1780 78 4 830 868 > Rumanian 1 - - 1 - > Jugoslavian 50 2 6 38 4 > Spanish 1 - - 1 - > Swiss 2 1 - - 1 > Czechoslovakian 109 1 10 74 24 > Hungarian 3 - - 3 - > Stateless 3 - 1 2 - > > Roman Catholic 2579 > Protestant 109 > Greek Orthodox 22 > Old Catholic and Maronite 8 > Mohammedan 2 From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:30 EDT 1999 Article: 191580 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:45:55 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <3810A2D3.E5A3B116@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> <000b8d9b.93d8fa3b@usw-ex0101-001.remarq.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688595 soc.culture.polish:191580 soc.culture.ukrainian:59503 soc.culture.german:142175 soc.culture.russian:159177 Mr Hubert is correct about the genesis of the salaried clergymen in Germany. But he and other holocaustians forget that the Adolf, once given dictatorial powers he could easily stop such payments by the fiat of his word, as he has done it and away with political parties in 1934 in the III Reich. He had not done it because while he was an apointed (rather then elected) dictator, despite dictatorial powers on an important matters he ruled by the will of the people i.e. referendums. Moreover, one has to ponder and can never be sure if he would continue to rule once the plain Germans did not gave him the about 90% vote of confidence. Knowing his ego, I think he would probably resign. Polina B. RockyMtnCougar wrote: > In article <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>, Juergen Hubert > wrote: > > polin wrote: > > > > And, while even during the war Hitler was paying clergy's > > salaries, > > > Roosevelt and Churchill have never done it in the peace time. > > The fact that the German state continued to pay salaries to > > clergymen > > AFAIK wasn't instituted by Hitler (and I doubt he would have done > > that) > > - that dates back to the German Empire, when the government > > nationalized > > all church lands, but agreed to reimburse the churches through > > regular > > payments. > > - Juergen Hubert > > He also conveniently forgets that little slip of parchment called The > Constitution, the First Ammendment of which makes clear that neither > Roosevelt nor ANY other President of the United states will pay clergy > (exceptions for military clerics who serve our soldiers being a notable > exception). > > To fault Roosevelt for not paying Father Coughlin or any other civilian > clergy person is ludicrous. Of course, most of what rolly-polly posts > is. > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:31 EDT 1999 Article: 191583 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt,revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:54:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3810A4E7.F88F3694@catskill.net> References: <381006D5.1E297F07@catskill.net> <19991022105905.02586.00000386@ng-bh1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191583 alt:7146 soc.culture.jewish:417464 soc.culture.german:142178 Dear Mrs Poniecka, You did not respond nor substantiated my questions: 1) Is the 50% death rate of Polish priests at Dachau authentic, considering that out of 315 members of the generally elderly academia of the Jagiellonian University about 285 survived near six years of imprisonment? 2) Did Nazis selectively murdered Polish priests at Dachau while did not murder priests of other nationalities 3 ) Did Polish priests died due to privations or epidemics 4) Why Pius XII did not protest about the atrocious rate of the death of Polish priests. In 1939 he was extremely supportive of conquered Poland. 5) why the record states that so many Polish priest and clergymen died (about 800) Polina Borowska PONIECKA wrote: > >the atrocious death rate of the > >Polish priests at Dachau > > The names of 108 Polish martyrs of WWII can be found at this site: > > http://www.ipipan.waw.pl/~klopotek/church/rcc_in_p.htm#Saints > > Overwhelmingly, they are priests. But how to explain Christians killing > Christians, and the barbaric measures taken against the clergy of the same > religion, different nationality? > > PONIECKA From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:31 EDT 1999 Article: 191603 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:47:31 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 95 Message-ID: <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688621 soc.culture.polish:191603 soc.culture.ukrainian:59519 soc.culture.russian:159200 soc.culture.jewish:417494 soc.culture.german:142195 Dear Daniel, 1) Please do not be more Catholic than the Pope! ... Do not be more Holocaustian than USMM and Ken Mc Vay who complained to me that he could not get complete Belzec Report. Snipetts available contradict the history of the Belzec camp of the last few decades that all corpses were cremated and indicate that pedantic Germans were careless at covering traces of their "crime" i.e. industrial murder of the Lemberg (Lwow, Lviv) Jews. What you describe as huge seems to me as an usual cemetery serving Nazi concentration camp. There were about 50 mass graves for about 10,000 corpses at the Treblinka I for the Poles. And we do not raise the roocous for that burial field or claim extermination on such basis. 2) I am astonished that you are an exegetic of the WW II Holocaust but you do not proseletise. I thought you will be happy that I would return to the Faith for any hard evidence reason, like the Saint Thomas. It seems that both the Judaism and Holocaustianism are two not proseltizing religions. 3) You claim that you saw Hydrokop Report. I am again astonished. Directors of the Musemum Krystyna Oleksy and mrg. Wroblewski several times in writting refused access of the Polish HIstorical Society of Stamford CT to this most important document of the Holocaust. Are you fluent in Polish or they showed you autheniticated translation in English. Or they just showed you a few drawings and the Polish text?? If not translated I am ready to do it. Lets get togrether on that project, jointly I former Holocaustian and you an active exegete. 5) I thought I will not succeed in prompting you into mentioning bloating, so last evening posted about this phenomenon. But belatedly you fell in my trap and mentioned the bloating today. I agree that in warm temperature cadavers bloat ... due to bacterial putrefaction. But in order for Eli Wiesel in Kyiv or Adolf Eichman in Lviv to see geysers of blood the gasses would have to be released simultaneously, I am sure you will agree. A malicious person might suggest that the dead bloated Jews had to burp in unison in order to produce Eichmannesque geysers. And why Jewish corpses burp in unison while Slavic do not??? Leaving gruesome jokes on the side the phenomenon of bloating of cxarcasses observed every summer on American highways, is a prove that not only blood but even the putrefaction gasses can not leave the corpse throught its intugemen. I repeat: the human skin is so tight that after death will not release the internal gasses ergo does not release fluids i.e. blood. Thus the geysers of blood even in summer are total Holocaustian fiction and one of many martyrological confabulations. Thus exterminationist and revisionists agreed on little point of bloating and dealt deadly blow to the blow-outs of geysers. Polina Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > polin wrote: > > ## Have you heard about the recent excavations in Belzec, "Polina"? > > # Even Ken Mc Vey could not obtain complete report just meaningless snippets. > > He seems to have quite a lot of material posted on his site, which > clearly indicates a huge amount of human remains in Belzec. The name > is McVay, BTW. > > # If it will show industrial murder of Jews I will instantly become one of you > # again. > > Oh, please don't become one of us. Please. > > # Did you hear about the 1966, 33 years old massive Hydrokop Report on Birkenau > > Saw it, actually. > > # PS I am astonished that you might for a second believe in the geysers. > > Let's start with a simple one. Do you agree, that when tens-of-thousands > of corpses are buried in one place, this will cause a lot of gases to be > released, due to the putrefication process? > > Have you heard, or read, descriptions about how corpses left on the > battlefield bloat? > > -Danny Keren. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:31 EDT 1999 Article: 191635 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.idt.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Why some Polish priests were dying at Dachau while others were drawing salaries?? >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:20:51 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3810FF63.2B952B1E@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> <000b8d9b.93d8fa3b@usw-ex0101-001.remarq.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688670 soc.culture.polish:191635 soc.culture.ukrainian:59529 soc.culture.german:142275 soc.culture.russian:159245 Goodevening, Below, by inapproprietly accusing me of blaming Roosevelt, Rocky deflects the dillemma of many Polish priests dying at Dachau others were drawing salaries >from the Nazis. Instead in a bigoted way zeroing on Roosevelt, [T]Rocky should zero in on predominantly Jewish NKVD and the Communists who destroyed not only priests and churches but faithful and religions (e.g. Judaism and Ukrainian Uniate Catholic Church) while suppressing all others. Polina I did not bl RockyMtnCougar wrote: > In article <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>, Juergen Hubert > wrote: > > polin wrote: > > > > And, while even during the war Hitler was paying clergy's > > salaries, > > > Roosevelt and Churchill have never done it in the peace time. > > The fact that the German state continued to pay salaries to > > clergymen > > AFAIK wasn't instituted by Hitler (and I doubt he would have done > > that) > > - that dates back to the German Empire, when the government > > nationalized > > all church lands, but agreed to reimburse the churches through > > regular > > payments. > > - Juergen Hubert > > He also conveniently forgets that little slip of parchment called The > Constitution, the First Ammendment of which makes clear that neither > Roosevelt nor ANY other President of the United states will pay clergy > (exceptions for military clerics who serve our soldiers being a notable > exception). > > To fault Roosevelt for not paying Father Coughlin or any other civilian > clergy person is ludicrous. Of course, most of what rolly-polly posts > is. > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:32 EDT 1999 Article: 191755 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:52:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 114 Message-ID: <38128264.A1B983DE@catskill.net> References: <3810A4E7.F88F3694@catskill.net> <19991022154209.29196.00000024@ng-fa1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191755 alt.revisionism:688897 soc.culture.german:142442 PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > >You did not respond nor substantiated my questions > > It is not my intention to answer or substantiate your questions. > > The website of WWII Polish Catholic martyrs was brought up in another forum, > and I posted it as more detailed information. In dealing with numbers, we > forget the names of real people. > > Actually, I was more interested in tracing your post to the newsgroup > alt.revisionism, where the thread originated as "Priests Murdered in Dachau > Concentration Camp." > > If you are truly interested in resolving your questions, why don't you research > the Internet yourself? I wish I could. About Auschwitz alone, there were 9883 different titles of books published by June 1996, (when I asked for the printout) and catalogued by about 23,000 libraries sharing information with the OCLC. Probably similar sea of information is about Dachau and searching bibliography alone would take a few weeks. Informational overkill is probably even greater on the Internet on these subject. For this reason I asked for help and to repeat my questions - Why Polish priests died more frequently than non-Polish priests at Dachau - Why 80% of Polish priests were NOT imprisoned by the Nazis and safely drew salaries and printed their religious materials on cellulose (paper), the strategic and rationed war material. - Why 50% of Polish priests survived for six years in the Nazi Death camps? Did Hitler in 1942 run out of Zyclon B or carbon monoxide? Carbon monoxide could be created by incomplete combustion of straw filled materaces on which the priests slept in the camps. Eventually, by early 1945 Hitler run out of insecticide Zyclon B when its factories were randomly destroyed by American bombers, what resulted in an appalling death rate at the concentration camps repetitiously shown by our media when the British bulldozer plows into mass graves heaps of cahectic bodies (due to constant diarrhea >from typhus and dysentery but not from starvation. > For starters, there are several links to information > about Dachau at this site: > > http://members.aol.com/AACTchrNet/page5.html#Dach > > I also heartily recommend the book by Msgr. Stanislaw Grabowski, "Follow Me: > The Memoirs of a Polish Priest." An excerpt from the book summary: > > "Born to an impoverish peasant family in Russian-controlled Poland in 1911, > Stanislaw Grabowski was ordained to the priesthood in 1938. At the outbreak of > World War II he was serving a diocese in western Poland. In October 1939, he > was arrested as part of an ethnic cleansing operation in the areas of Poland > directly annexed by the Reich. > > For the next five and a half years Fr. Grabowski was a prisoner in Nazi camps. SURVIVING FOR FIVE AND AN HALF YEARS AT THE DEATH CAMP??? > > Most of that time was spent in the "priests' barracks" in Dachau. After > liberation, he came to the United States where he wrote one of the first > accounts of the Holocaust in Polish outside of Poland. He served in parishes on > the east coast, South Dakota, and Minnesota and passed away in 1993. WORKED AND LIVED TO A SOUND 82 YEARS AFTER PRIVATIONS AND PERSECUTIONS OF THE DEATH CAMP??? It seems that the Dachau perhaps gave him a sort of immuninty or at least lease on longevity! One would expect that after the horrors of the camps liberated inmates should pass away in a few months after their release, would you not agree?? My relatives and acquaintances who survived Siberian camps usually returned toothless and prematurely aged and died within years after their release in late 1950s. And they were so ininated (worn out, nearly dead) that none of them was able to create any writting. Did you noticed Mrs Poniecka that perhaps one of eight Auschwitz survivors (there were about 60,000 of them) published a book or a memoir. Did you also notice Mrs Poniecka that there is a virtual absence of memoirs of Siberia survivors? Not that I believe in survivors or refugees stories. I do not regardless they are Jews, Poles Germans or Albanians. A huge, front page stories were created in our press about 700 KOSOVARS massacred by Serbs and burried in an abandoned mineshaft. About a week ago on back page of the NYT and other papers you could find that invetigators of the Hague Tribunal for weeks excavated this mineshaft and found nothing, NOT EVEN ONE CORPSE OR SKELETON! And the death of the 700 Kosovar martyrs was established on the authority of testimonies of divergent Albanian refugees on the premise that all of them were c o n s i s t e n t l y relating this martyrological story. Without reading Rev Grabowski memoir I classify it as such a confabulatory martyrological story. I have red hundreds of them and cried many times reading it until one time I started to reflect on their i n t e r n a l inconsitencies and became a historical revisionist. From then on, I am looking for a hard, physical evidence of martyrology and genesis of alleged facts. Thus my question Why only 50% Polish priests died and Why some of them were imprisoned while others not. Was Hitler bent of extermination of 50% of imprisoned priests only??? > > > "Follow Me" tells the story of a remarkable and danger-filled life. It is one > on the first books ever to tell the story of Polish priests imprisoned by the > Nazis during World War II. Over a fifth of Poland's Catholic clergy was killed > during the war, and many religious were imprisoned or tortured." > > PONIECKA From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:32 EDT 1999 Article: 191757 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: No Slovak, Ukrainian and Lithuanian priests at Dachau >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:03:42 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 68 Message-ID: <3812851D.D4BF948C@catskill.net> References: <3810A4E7.F88F3694@catskill.net> <19991022154209.29196.00000024@ng-fa1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191757 soc.culture.ukrainian:59584 Dear Mrs Poniecka, The mortality of the Polish priests at Dachau and the longevity of its survivors which you, inadvertently, brought to my attention with the example of Rev. Grabowski creates prepexing incongruity in regard to alleged Nazis intention to persecute Catholic Churc and Polish priests in particular. I postulate that Hitler was NOT anti-Catholic per se. He paid salaries to Polish priests whom he did not imprisoned and gave paper to continue to print their literature, while the post-war, largely Jewish Polish government did not allow any printing. The first New Testatment which appeared in my family was the one printed in 1958. Before 1958 no New Testament was available for purchase in Poland! My final argument that Nazia WERE anti-Polish but were NOT aniti-Catholic is that there were no Ukrainian, Slovak and Lithuanian Catholic clergy imprisoned at Dachau. Is it possible that Hitler imprisoned 1,800 Polish priest for their Polish patriotism and anti-Nazis stand??? Sincerely, Polina Borowska PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > >You did not respond nor substantiated my questions > > It is not my intention to answer or substantiate your questions. > > The website of WWII Polish Catholic martyrs was brought up in another forum, > and I posted it as more detailed information. In dealing with numbers, we > forget the names of real people. > > Actually, I was more interested in tracing your post to the newsgroup > alt.revisionism, where the thread originated as "Priests Murdered in Dachau > Concentration Camp." > > If you are truly interested in resolving your questions, why don't you research > the Internet yourself? For starters, there are several links to information > about Dachau at this site: > > http://members.aol.com/AACTchrNet/page5.html#Dach > > I also heartily recommend the book by Msgr. Stanislaw Grabowski, "Follow Me: > The Memoirs of a Polish Priest." An excerpt from the book summary: > > "Born to an impoverish peasant family in Russian-controlled Poland in 1911, > Stanislaw Grabowski was ordained to the priesthood in 1938. At the outbreak of > World War II he was serving a diocese in western Poland. In October 1939, he > was arrested as part of an ethnic cleansing operation in the areas of Poland > directly annexed by the Reich. > > For the next five and a half years Fr. Grabowski was a prisoner in Nazi camps. > Most of that time was spent in the "priests' barracks" in Dachau. After > liberation, he came to the United States where he wrote one of the first > accounts of the Holocaust in Polish outside of Poland. He served in parishes on > the east coast, South Dakota, and Minnesota and passed away in 1993. > > "Follow Me" tells the story of a remarkable and danger-filled life. It is one > on the first books ever to tell the story of Polish priests imprisoned by the > Nazis during World War II. Over a fifth of Poland's Catholic clergy was killed > during the war, and many religious were imprisoned or tortured." > > PONIECKA From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:32 EDT 1999 Article: 191759 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Niemcy zabijali Zydow ale ...>>Roznica miedzy 90% i 99,5% >>Hitler - wybieralnym dyktatorem >>> glosujcie na Papieza Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:13:43 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 208 Message-ID: <38129587.C24ADCE8@catskill.net> References: <0.6e23b89f.253e95de@aol.com> <380DCFDA.1FB6E300@catskill.net> <7ukiol$1ln$1@readme.uio.no> <380FC3BB.70B83B13@catskill.net> <3812c4b2.6915230@news.mindspring.com> <380FD153.6F2B686@catskill.net> <38111366.3007092@news.mindspring.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191759 soc.culture.ukrainian:59589 Drogi Panie Zalek: "ZalekBloom@hotmail.com" wrote: > On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:52:04 -0400, polin > wrote: > > >Panie Zalek, > > > >Tak jak pan pisze w demoludach "wybierano" wiekszocia 99,5% glosow co bylo > >oczywista fikcja > > > >Referenda ktore oglaszal Hitler dawaly mu slowo zaufania w zaledwie 90% co > >oznacza ze wybory w III Reichu byly wolne lub nieomal wolne. > > > >Niemcy naprawde kochali Hitlera jak zlikwidowal bezrobocie. > > > >W zwiazku z tym Goldhagen ma racje na 50% ze przecietny Niemiec jest > >odpowiedzialny za postepki rzadu Hitlera. Jednakze tych drugich 50% to jest > >to ze hitlerowcy nie mordowali Zydow na przemyslowa skale > > > >Z powazaniem Polina > > Tak, tak Pani Mecenasowo(*) > > Niemcy nie mordowali Zydow Powyzej pan mnie zle (i chyba z zamyslem) cytuje. Ja twierdze ze Niemcy zabijali lub doprowadzali Zydow do smierci roznymi sposobami ale nie na przemyslowa skale. > a komunisci nie wygladzali Ukrainy. > Nie znaleziono kosci wyglodzonych Ukraincow, wiec Ukraincy nie marli z > glodu. Kaganowich i Nikita Khruschev glodzili wiesniakow Ukrainy. Przyznaja sie do tego glowni oficerowie Cheka w swych prosbach o promocje vide witryna Lubomyra Prytulaka z Kanady cytujaca ksiazke Wiktora Szapochwala - zbior 300 takowych aplikacji. Pytanie ilu wiesniakow Ukrainy oni zaglodzili na smierc nie ma jasnej odpowiedzi. Pan ma racje ze Ukraincy powinni zrobic wyrywkowe ekshumacje przycerkiewnych cmentarzy na ukrainskich wioskach. Powinni znalezc tam masowe groby. Radzieckiej statystyce nie mozna wierzyc choc ona wskazuje na ubytek 2,000,000 Ukraincow pomiedzy spisami w 1929 i w 1939 roku. Tak jak ma sie sprawa z Hitlerem tak samo ma sie sprawa ze Stalinem i Kaganowiczem. Ukrainskie wsie na starych mapach poznikaly z map nowszych map Ukrainy. Ale trzeba rowniez porownac czy w latach 1930-1933 nie wzrosla liczba wsi (kolchozow) na Zelenoj Ukraini, klinie urodzajnej ziemi nad rzeka Amur na Zachod od Wladywostoku. O ile ja wiem w chwili obecnej jest kilka milionow "Rosjan" (zrusyfikowanych Ukraincow) ktorych nazwiska koncza sie na uk lub ko (Iwanejko lub Iwanczuk zamiast Iwanov lub Ivaniv). Jest mozliwosc ze czesc ktorych Ukraincy uwazaja za zaglodzonych na smierc zostala deportowana na Daleki Wschod. Bez watpienia Ukraincy "ustalili" liczbe ich ofiar glodu na 7,000,000 po to by byla o wieksza od zydowskich 6,000,000 tak ze w koncu obie cyfry sa wyssane z palca lub plodem mozgu propagandystow. Prosze zauwazyc ze w prasie II Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej ktora byly szczegolnie anty-soviecka w opisach glodu na Ukrainie nie znajduje sie wzmiankowanej liczby 7,000,000 a pisze sie o 2,000,000 lub wiecej milionach. 7,000,000 wyskoczylo dopiero po Norymberskim procesie. Sa zdjecia z 1945 roku Banderwoskich demonstracji w Nieczech w Monachium na temat ofiar ukrainskiego glodu. Na plakatach nie ma liczby 7,000,000. Wymyslono ja dopiero po 1946 roku po to by przelicytowac Zydow. Ostatecznym dowodem ilu Ukraincow zginelo w czasie sztucznego glodu beda archeologiczne wykopaliska najwczesniej w koncu nastepnego wieku. Pospiechu z tym nie ma bo w zasadowych gruntach ukrainskiego czernozemu/lessu kosci zarowno ludzkie jak i zwierzece (np mamutow i szablastych tygrysow) kamienieja i trwaja w wiecznosc. Gorzej jest z piaszczystymi (a wiec kwasnymi) gruntami w Polsce gdzie kosci rozpuszczaja sie wrecz blyskawicznie w przeciagu 25 do 100 lat! Tak wiec Panowie Zydzi jak chcecie sie przekonac czy was niemcy przemyslowo unicestwiali trzeba sie spieszyc bo slady zagina. Zrobiono co prawda w 1966 roku badania Brzezinki w celu udowodnienia archeologicznego Zaglady Zydow ale w wiekszosci zydowska administracja Muzeum uwaza Raport Hydrokopu za tajemnice panstwowa. Tak samo mysla nasi Zydzi jak Prezydent Kwasnieski i Minister Geremek i Minister Oswiaty Hannah Sawicka. > Jesli juz marli to na pewno z przejedzenia, gdyz ogladajac pod > mikroskopem zdjecia tlustych Ukrainek z manifestacji 1 maja wyraznie > widac ze cierpialy na nadtlusz miesni serca. Pan ma racje ze "Ukrainki" na paradach 1 maja w Kijowie w latach 1930-33 byly swietnie odzywione. Ciesze sie ze Pan Jozef i ja nauczylismy Pana zdawac sie na physical evidence (materialne dowody). Rowniez otluszczone sa dopiero co wyzwolone Zdowskie dzieci z Oswiecimia na zdjeciach z polskimi zakonnicami pomiedzy drutami obozu Rowniez otluszczone i usmiechniet sa matki Zdowki i ich niemowleta sfotografowane w dniu wyzwolenia Obozu Smierci Dachau przez fotografow US Signal Corps (fotografow amerykanskiej armii). Rowniez otluszczone sa mlode Zydowki-placzki na manifestacyjnym pogrzebie "ofiar" Kieleckiego pogromu w 1946 co raczej nieprzyjemnie sie oglada na Kronice Filmowej nr 22/46 z lipca 1946 roku, dostepna z Polish Historical Society, POB Stamford, CT 06905. Fotosy tych otluszczonych Zydowek czemus nigdy nie byly drukowane w polskiej prasie, byc moze dlatego ze w lecie 1946 roku w Polsce panowal na wsiach glod i ja sama bylam karmiona zupa z lebiody a moze raz na tydzien dosawalam dwa lub trzy plasterki z jajka do kanapki z chleba jak szlam do szkoly. O ile mnie pamiec nie myli to moze raz na miesiac byla frajda bo babcia gdzies zdobyla kilka bulek kajzerek najwiekszy przysmak z mego dziecinstwa. Dzieku amerykanskiemu obrzydliwemu tranowi nie dostalam krzywych nog od krzywicy. A Zydowki w tym czasie byly otluszczone a Zydzi na cmentarzu w skorzanych plaszczach i lub w butach z cholewami kiedy ja do kosciola jeszcze do wczesnych lat piecdziesiatych biegalam piec kilometrow na boso ze wsi Bukowiec kolo Lodzi do wsi Bedon kolo Andrespola. Po chleb jezdzilam rowerem 3 kilometry do GS (Gminnej Spoldzielni) w Kustynowie... przez piaski rowerem nie mozna bylo przejechac i trzeba go bylo pchac. Takie bylo zycie na wsi w powojennej Ludowej Judeo-polonii. Z zadroscia patrzylismy na spasione Zydowki co przyjezdzaly na letnisko do pobliskiej Wisniowej Gory dwa km na zachod od Andrespola. Zydowskich dzieci nie widywalam bo mamy trzymaly je zamkniete w willach. Trudno je bylo zrozumiec bo chachlaly do siebie po zydowsku a ja jeszcze wowczas nie mialam tyle rozumu zeby uczyc sie Yiddisz. Nauke zaczelam dopiero dwa lata temu i choc nie mowie z trudnoscia czytam Does Noje Lebn z 1946 wydawane z Lodzi a ktorego Zydowski Instytut Historyczny w Wa-wie nie zechcial mi/nam uzyczyc!. > > A Stalin nieslychanie lubial dzieci, dbal o zdrowie swoich obywateli i > cierpiacych wysylal na dlugoletnie kuracje do sanatorji na Syberji. Na temat kuracji Polakow i Ukraincow (najwiekszych wrogow ZSSR) pisalam przed godzina we wczesniejszym dopisie na sciep lub alt.revisionism ale po angielsku. Prosze mi nie docinac a poprosic kogos np pana Popiela lub Sharona aby panu przetlumaczyli. > > > Zalek > > (*) Panie wcale nie jest rewizjonistka - Pani jest obronca Hitlera, Ja jestem obronca prawdy i nawet Stalinowi trzeba przyznac ze wykorzenil analfabetyzm czego nie zrobil Pilsudski bozyszcze mojej rodziny, stad pan Miecz mnie nienawidzi. > Z szacunkiem, Polina Boreowska. PS, Panie Zalek, prosze mi napisac dlaczego Panowie trzymaja sie sciepu i zmuszaja nas do bezustannego zajmowania sie sprawami zydowskimi zamiast polskimi, i dlaczego Pan i pana wspolwyznawcy WOGOLE nie udzielacie sie na soc.culture.jewish. Czy zydowskie sprawy nie sa bardziej mile waszemu sercu? > > wiec zeby dodac wiecej szacunku do Pani pracy - nazwe Pania z lacinska > - Pania Mecenasowa. > > > > >"ZalekBloom@hotmail.com" wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:54:03 -0400, polin > >> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > > >> >Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski wrote: > >> > > >> >> polin wrote: > >> >> : - HITLER BYL CHYBA JEDYNYM, WYBIERANYM CO DWA LATA W > >> >> : PLEBISCYCIE DYKATOREM W NOWOCZESNEJ HISTORII SWIATA . > >> >> > >> >> W jakich latach te "plebiscyty" sie odbyly i kto jeszcze > >> >> kandydowal?? > >> > > >> >Panie Leszku, > >> > > >> >W plebiscytach cze referendum nie ma wielu kandydatow jest tylko jeden > >> >na ktorego sie glosuje lub przeciw. > >> > > >> >Gdyby Hitlerowi co dwa lata nie przeglosowan praw Furhera - przywodcy - > >> >dyktatora wznowiono by dzialalnosc Reichstagu -Sejmu > >> > > >> >Ostatnie wybory/plebiscyt/referendum na Hitlera odbylo sie w 1943 roku o > >> >ile sie nie myle. > >> > > >> >Poniewaz Pan zadal to (rozsadne) pytanie na ten malo znany a niezmiernie > >> >wazny fakt przjerze podrezniki na ten temat. > >> > > >> >Pozdrawia, > >> > > >> >Polina Borowska. > >> > >> Tez mi osiagniecie. W PRLu tez wybierano PZPR co pare lat i 99.9% > >> ludzi glosowalo na Partje. To sie nazwa osiagniecie!!!! > >> > >> Mam nadzieje ze tego waznego faktu tez sie nie zapomni, i w > >> podrecznikach historycznych te fakty beda lezaly bardzo blizko siebie. > >> > >> Zalek Bloom From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:32 EDT 1999 Article: 191760 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:25:45 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 64 Message-ID: <38129858.77CF2DB5@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688910 soc.culture.polish:191760 soc.culture.ukrainian:59590 soc.culture.german:142453 soc.culture.russian:159480 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr Mc Vay, > > > In the "[present] era of revisionism" (term in editorial in Martyrs and > > Resistance Dec. 1996) > > There is no such "era." The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the > lunatic fringe. For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not revisionists. > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > during Nuremberg trials? > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness > whose testimony was "extorted" The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book that he was tortured. > or a signle document named in the analysis > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic. The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was expression of ethnic but not religeous war. Polina thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka [II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric smelly but not secret or 'exterminationist' establishment > > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:33 EDT 1999 Article: 191761 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:26:29 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 64 Message-ID: <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688911 soc.culture.polish:191761 soc.culture.ukrainian:59591 soc.culture.german:142454 soc.culture.russian:159481 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr Mc Vay, > > > In the "[present] era of revisionism" (term in editorial in Martyrs and > > Resistance Dec. 1996) > > There is no such "era." The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the > lunatic fringe. For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not revisionists. > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > during Nuremberg trials? > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness > whose testimony was "extorted" The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book that he was tortured. > or a signle document named in the analysis > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic. The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was expression of ethnic but not religeous war. Polina thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka [II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric and smelly but not secret or 'exterminationist' establishment > > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:33 EDT 1999 Article: 191762 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Pytanie? Rocznica smierci Ks. Popieluszki Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:46:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <38129D44.7CD8A13C@catskill.net> References: <7uhf79$mks$1@readme.uio.no> <7uhjbd$6jc@edrn.newsguy.com> <7us00r$i1$2@snipp.uninett.no> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191762 Dlaczego Watykan na sile i z szybkoscia 100km na godzine wyswieca dziwnych swietych jak miedzy innymi  108 ksiezy ktorych hitlerowcy wsadzili do koncentrakow za polski patriotyzm a nie za religie a nie wyswieci blyskawicznie mego ulubienca ks. Popieluszke lub

2000 glownie Polskich (czesciowo Ukraincow) meczennikow ktorzy oddali zycie za blizniego a moze i wroga bedac rozstrzelanymi Niemcami za przechowywanie Zydow w czasie DWS

Polish Historical Society zwrocilo sie z propozycja wyswiecenia 2,000 meczennikow do Watykanu cztery lata temu i do dzis nie otrzymalo na to odpowiedzi.  Moze dlatego ze czterotomowa Encyclopedia of the Holocasut podaje liczbe ponad 900.  To w takim razie dlaczego nie zrobic z nich 1,000 meczennikow?

A ilu Zydow przyplacilo zyciem lub utrata posady w Polskim Urzedzie Bezpieczenstwa za uratowanie lub przechowywanie Polakow?

Polina

PS od wiekow wysiwieconych Wojtylowski Watykan wyrzuca z kalendarza a zastepuje ich naprawde podejrzanymi typami.

Na beatyfikacje Edyty Stein przybylo 87 czlonkow jej zgladzonej rodziny.  Ciekawa Zaglada!

Stepaniak Leszek wrote:

In
>
>Urban byl wowczas rzecznikiem prasowym rzadu.
>
>W tym samym rzadzie Jaruzelskiego zasiadal Aleksader Kwasniewski, dzisiejszy
>prezydent RP. Ciekawe ze do niego Pan zadnych pretensji nie ma.
>
>Premierem, szefem PZPR i kim tam jeszcze byl niejaki Wojciech Jaruzelski. Nic
>sie w Polsce nie dzialo bez jego rozkazu. Pod adresem Jaruzelskiego tez Pan
>dziwnym trafem zadnych zarzutow nie wysuwa.
>
>Szefem bezpieki byl jeszcze inny minister - Kiszczak. Do niego tez Pan jakos
>pretensji nie ma.
>
>O mordercach ksiedza Popieluszki tez Pan nie wspomina.
>
>Tylko o Urbanie.
Dzisiejszy rzecznik SLD, Kwasniewskiego czyn przyjaciel
Urban z calym cynizmem przygotowywal duchowo do morderstwa Ksiedza Popieluszki.
Leszek Stepaniak
From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:34 EDT 1999 Article: 191763 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Why some Polish priests were dying at Dachau while others were drawing salaries?? >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:52:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <38129E9E.577066C3@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> <000b8d9b.93d8fa3b@usw-ex0101-001.remarq.com> <3810FF63.2B952B1E@catskill.net> <3811A88F.280E@acadia.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688914 soc.culture.polish:191763 soc.culture.ukrainian:59592 soc.culture.german:142458 soc.culture.russian:159483 www.ukrachive of Lubomyr Prytulak reproduces recent book of Shapochwal which provides verbatim handwritten applications for promotions of the 300 leading officers of the Cheka-NKVD in Ukraine for years 1920-40. It shows that about 60% of them listed their ethnicity as Jewish. Prytulak errs but not pointing to the fact that most of the rest were like Madlaine Albrightr and General Clark of NATO of Hobrooke of UN i.e. they did not know they were Jewish [actually they were able to hide their Jewishness] Book is available from the Polish Historical Society and in eight libraries throughout USA and Canada kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > Another lie from polin: > > > predominantly Jewish NKVD > > When will it end? From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:34 EDT 1999 Article: 191764 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Revisionists, bloody-minded, reprehensible racists >>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:06:08 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 68 Message-ID: <3812A1CF.18AEFD2F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3811AB37.34E9@acadia.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688915 soc.culture.polish:191764 soc.culture.german:142459 soc.culture.russian:159485 Dear Mr Kaspian, If I am not mistaken Mr. Candide is NOT Holocaust revisionist. He simply detests Jews. As you will notice I and true revisionists always capitalize the word Jew or Jewess or Jewish. We respect Jews because for one reasons among us are Jews such a David Cole videotaped and embarassed Dr. Piper of the Auschwitz Museum and Efim Florisman who developed the true story of the Babi Yar as a hoax by Solomon Lozowski of the Sovinform and Plitbureau and wrote the Holocaust Chastushki for which he was severely chastized in Novoje "Ruskoje" Slovo. Moreover, we revisionists are inherently avoved pacifists. It is you martyrologists who are bloody-minded and see baby brains splattered where it there were no babies and do not see fat and smiling Jewish babies in stills, photographed by the US Signal Corps at the day of the liberation of Dachau or Jewish [?] babies in icubators depicted in the newsreals of the just liberated Buchenwald. You can see them in US National Archive only since no mainstream media will publish them or the wartime air photos of Kyiv which show undisturbed ground cover in Babi Yar and undisturbed tombstones at the nearby Jewish cemetery. You call us racists. There are Negro revisionist such as Dr. Block and Rev Farrhakan and there are Semitic revisionists such as from the Radio Islam in Sweden and some editors of the Egyptian newspapers. There are also Oriental revisionists in Japan and in mainland China. zzdrastvujte and Shalom from Polina kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > A lie from Candide: > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > jews. > > > > This is, of course, historically stupid. And Candide is only able > to cite a single instance -- the Katyn Forest massacre -- in support of > this idiotic assertion. > > Nobody is saying that the Soviets were not capable of terrible > deeds, including the fabrication of history. Remember the Cold War? Do > you need to be reminded of what *that* was about? But the fact that the > NKVD were unpleasant people does not make the Nazis magically clean and > pure. > > Again, we have a reiteration of the endless lie about the Soviet > secret police being "dominated almost entirely by jews." (I assume the > refusal to capitalize the word "Jew" is yet another attempt to degrade > these people.) When will it end? > > This poster has, astonishingly and yet revealingly, characterized > the Nazi criminals hanged a Nuremberg as "innocent victims"! I'd say > this remark, all by itself, places Holocaust denial in its proper > perspective. > > Holocaust denial is a moral evil, and has absolutely nothing to do > with history, except in the sense of being a chapter of > history-in-the-making. Will these bloody-minded, reprehensible racists > be allowed, once again, to triumph? For the sake of my children, I hope > not. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:34 EDT 1999 Article: 191765 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:35:22 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 95 Message-ID: <3812A8A9.9C5873BE@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688916 soc.culture.polish:191765 soc.culture.ukrainian:59593 soc.culture.russian:159486 soc.culture.jewish:417668 soc.culture.german:142460 Dear Mr or Mrs Kaspian For the benefit of American readers let me explain that your less then perfect command of English and your name Kaspian indicate that you are a Soviet Jew most likely of Ukrainian origin (less likely Armenian) and perhaps a Soviet dissident. Thus 1) If SS would truly engage in mass killing of Jews in todays English lingua franca we would call them exterminators not exterminationists. For centuries extermination ment in English banishment of deportations : in Latin ex means out and terminus means border. But because Nazis were deporting Jews to concentration camps and forced labor, the media dominated by the Jews changed the original meaning of extermination into industrial murder. I am sure you red Dubnovs History of Jews of Russia . It was translated in 1918 by the Jewish Publications Society of Philadelphia. It states that in 1880s Tsars tried to exterminate Jews to Siberia and America and annihilated Jewish youth by forcing them into military service. Also on February 9 1939 The NYT reported that Czech authorities were forced to liquidate Jews who got in after 1918 and those subject to liquidation could for six months appeal the order of the Nazi run Czech administration. Korbels, carpet baggers from Poland and owners of matches factory tried to avoid this lquidation by Catholic baptism. When this ruse did not work they liqudiated themself to England and became Methodists. Thus poor little Madleine did not know that they were Jewish along with her husband Albright. Meaning of words change. Liquidation of Jews today means industrial murder But when Hitler in his January 1939 speach to the Reichstag given at the opulent Berlin Opera House threatened with extermination (Ausrottung) of Jewish race from Europe which try to stir another war, the Jewish editors printed these words verbatim and they did not ruffle in them a single comment or emotion. Instead they praised him for the peaceful intetions and his refutal of any quest for the German colonies in Africa. Perhaps, you will say, on the other side of the ocean, the Schulzbergers the American Jews and the owners of the NYT misread Hitlers words. But the Jews on the receiving end in the nearby Poland exulted in their WArsaw papers e.g. Nasz Przeglad (Our Review) with a titles "Hitler Ureguluje Eksterminacje Zydow" (Hitler Will Streamline Deportation of Jews) refering to streamlining removal of Jewish illegal alliens from III Reich who were lingering for months in transit camps in no man land between borders of Poland and GErmany. 3) Finally if you are or are not Soviet dissident I want to assure you that we revisionists are later-day dissidents smeared jailed and persecuted assuaulted and assasinated like Volodymyr Katylnyckyj in Kyiv in July 1997 With this ending you will perhaps see some commonality between you and me between you soviet Jews and us revisionists. Shalom, Polina You should be happy that we try to reduce you mourning for the relatives of yours who were not industrially murdered kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > More fabrications: the words "Holocaustian" and "exterminationist." > > The intent of these words, invented by Holocaust deniers, is perfectly > clear: they are another means of shrugging off the moral baggage of > mass murder, in this case by shifting the very *words* to describe this > unprecedented crime -- words that might properly describe a member of > Himmler's killing squads -- onto their (current) enemies, the defenders > of the historical record. > > Not for nothing, it seems, did Polin spend his/her formative years in > the former Soviet Bloc. The techniques of propaganda must come > naturally after all that time. > > Let's be clear. There is NO SUCH THING as a "Holocaustian" or an > "exterminationist," unless it be an elderly SS man with blood on his > hands. Even Holocaust deniers -- who prefer to call themselves by the > sanitized term "revisionists" -- ought to make enough pretence, at > least, of human decency not to apply unwanted, derogatory terms to > decent human beings who are guilty of nothing but moral integrity. > > When will the horror end? From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:34 EDT 1999 Article: 191766 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:37:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 89 Message-ID: <3812A938.6680B89C@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688917 soc.culture.polish:191766 soc.culture.german:142461 soc.culture.russian:159487 My title is self explanatory Polina PS In addition they brough staged cremation pyres from Klooga camp as authentic "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > Yale F.Edeiken wrote: > > > > > > polin wrote: > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > jews. > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > Katyn Forest. > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of the > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually use the > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence that > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > > Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > hanged Germans who had no business > > invading Poland at the first place, > > But you will lie for them > > > but in the > > eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > murdered in cold blood > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and honest and > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by the > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, therefore, > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > of false documents used as testimony at > > Nuremberg trials. > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > but without beginning. > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason why the > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:35 EDT 1999 Article: 191767 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:38:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 90 Message-ID: <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688918 soc.culture.polish:191767 soc.culture.german:142462 soc.culture.russian:159488 My title is self explanatory Polina PS In addition they brought staged photos cremation pyres from Klooga camp as authentic "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > Yale F.Edeiken wrote: > > > > > > polin wrote: > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > jews. > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > Katyn Forest. > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of the > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually use the > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence that > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > > Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > hanged Germans who had no business > > invading Poland at the first place, > > But you will lie for them > > > but in the > > eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > murdered in cold blood > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and honest and > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by the > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, therefore, > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > of false documents used as testimony at > > Nuremberg trials. > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > but without beginning. > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason why the > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:35 EDT 1999 Article: 191768 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish.,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Apologies from Polina >>> Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:54:19 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 93 Message-ID: <3812AD1B.D75B1813@catskill.net> References: <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688919 soc.culture.polish:191768 soc.culture.german:142463 soc.culture.ukrainian:59594 Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > polin wrote: > > # 1) Please do not be more Catholic than the Pope! ... Do not be more Holocaustian > # than USMM and Ken Mc Vay who complained to me that he could not get complete Belzec > # Report. > > Didn't Mr. McVay just post that he has the complete report? About two weeks ago he did not have it. Do not obfuscate issue while you can ask him directly and get authoritative answer > > > # Snipetts available contradict the history of the Belzec camp of the last few > # decades that all corpses were cremated and indicate that pedantic Germans were > # careless at covering traces of their "crime" i.e. industrial murder of the Lemberg > # (Lwow, Lviv) Jews. What you describe as huge seems to me as an usual cemetery > # serving Nazi concentration camp. > > No, the remains indicate massive burning of corpses, and are up to 6.5 meters > deep. This, and the area involved, indicate something rather different than > a "usual cemetery". Experience shows that mass graves are dug only two meters deep in order to avoid building retaining walls protecting diggers and preventing caving in before burial. If indeed human remains were found at 6,5 meters (abouyt 20 feet) depth the upper layers were undobutedly added during the last decade. In Treblinka II the mass grave was covered with layer of concrete to prevent gold scavenging. > > > # 2) I am astonished that you are an exegetic of the WW II Holocaust but you do not > # proseletise. I thought you will be happy that I would return to the Faith for any > # hard evidence reason, like the Saint Thomas. It seems that both the Judaism and > # Holocaustianism are two not proseltizing religions. > > Whatever you're injecting, it's not doing you any good. > > # 3) You claim that you saw Hydrokop Report. I am again astonished. Directors of > # the Musemum Krystyna Oleksy and mrg. Wroblewski several times in writting refused > # access of the Polish HIstorical Society of Stamford CT to this most important > # document of the Holocaust. > > What on earth is the "Polish HIstorical Society of Stamford CT"? A bunch of > neo-Nazis, right? Would you think that real Neo-Nazis would like to collaborate with you??? Of course they would not because they hate the Jews. Revisionists do not because there are Jews among us: Dr. Lilinethatl, Mr. Burg, David Cole, Efim Florisman (the Babi Yar man) > > > # Are you fluent in Polish or they showed you autheniticated translation in English. > # Or they just showed you a few drawings and the Polish text?? > > The report is essentially a map, indicating the location of the holes, and what > was found at each. If you can provide me with the copy of this map I will pay up tro $100.00 although the entire report consits of many pages. Will you share with me the copy of this "map"??? > > > # I agree that in warm temperature cadavers bloat ... due to bacterial putrefaction. > # But in order for Eli Wiesel in Kyiv or Adolf Eichman in Lviv to see geysers of > # blood the gasses would have to be released simultaneously, I am sure you will > # agree. > > No. > > [Rest of rants from the twisted little neo-Nazi deleted] > > -Danny Keren. PS: I sincerely appologize for rather tasteless humor. Seeing your justified indignation on my "Haloween humor" I see that it was poor excuse and I appologize again. Yes you were correct in deleating in and I thank you for you doing that. It was TOTALLY inappropriate! Considering massive verbal abuse suffered by revisionists it was still inappropriate Polina From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:35 EDT 1999 Article: 191770 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Sacrificed Inca children >>> Eichman was soaked with Thorazine not blood from Jewish geysers ...Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 03:31:00 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 109 Message-ID: <3812B5B3.C21A73D@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <19991020231842.25871.00000215@ng-ff1.aol.com> <380FFDFE.58F680C3@catskill.net> <7ur7e2$to6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688927 soc.culture.polish:191770 soc.culture.ukrainian:59598 Dear Philip, Your citations support my contention. Burial slows down decomposition And low temperature you did not mentioned (on purpose???) stops decomposition. Look at the recent National Gegraphic. Inca children sacrificed in the Ades 500 years ago look "like new". Also waxy degeneration, as one found in Belzec, does not occur above the ground especially in summer. Also bloating does not occur under ground in mass graves due to slow production of gas and heavy pressure. In Poland and Ukraine and especially in Baltics the ground temperature steady year around and measures at about 45-50F. The speed of cooling of bodies by the massive heat (actually cold) capacity of the ground exeeds the rate of the exothermy of the anerobic 'fermentation' and slows it to near zero. In temperatures below 40 only fungi grow slowly. Nothing grows in temperature below o Centigrade. Mass killings by Einsatz gruppe were conducted in fall Babi Yar took place on September 29 -October 2, when the German and the Red Army were immobilized by heavy rain and early snow in Kyiv area. These weather conditions are documented by daily weather reports in German Kriegstagebuche and in Soviet notations thus are incontrovertible. In Moscow on November 7 during the parade on the anniverssary of the October Revolution I am sure you have seen on TV always snows. Ceaca, do you know dring which month Eichmann said he visited Lviv?? Moreover, Nazis begun to form Ghetto and kill Jews on mass scale (600,000 in total according to Nuremberg data) in Lemberg in December 1941. The story of ground swelling and heaving over the mass graves like wave on the sea described by survivors is pure martyrological fiction. Polina Philip Mathews wrote: > In article <380FFDFE.58F680C3@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > Dear Philip, > > > > The geysers of blood are sheer hydrolic and medical impossibility. > > > > In mass grave blood is contained within the skin which can be described as a tight > > leather sac and the bodies are gradually dehydrated by the 'hydrostatic' pressure > > of the soil or corpses above. Think of cottage cheese being turned in a cheese > > cloth between two boards into solid cheese. > > > > In the cool or cold and anerobic (oxygen deprived) millieu of the mass grave the > > bacterial decomposition essentially ceases. Instead the slow growing fungi take > > over. But fungi generally do not produce gases like the anerobic bacteria at body > > temperature and above (85-105F) or yeast at 65-75F. > > This is not true. Buried bodies undergo the same five stages of decomposition > (Fresh Stage, Bloated Stage, Decay Stage, Dry Stage and Remains Stage) as > bodies left above ground . > > What does occur in buried corpses is a different rate of decomposition. > > (begin quote) > > Keh (1985) presented Casper's rule, which states that decomposition in air > for one week is approximately equal to decomposition in water for two weeks, > which is approximately equal to decomposition underground for eight weeks. > Others have also found that burial greatly slows down the rate of > decomposition (Mann et al., 1990; Turner, 1987). > > (end quote) > > Using Insects to Determine the Post Mortem Interval > Dr. Bob Randall > University of Saskatchewan > > During this inevitable process of decomposition the corpse eventually reaches > the Bloated Stage. > > (begin quote) > > The bloated stage of decomposition begins with the start of bloating and ends > with the cessation of bloating (Early and Goff, 1986; Rodriguez et al., 1983; > Turner, 1987). This stage of decomposition is characterized by putrefaction, > during which the gases produced by anaerobic bacteria cause the abdomen to > inflate. The internal temperature of the carcass starts to rise above > ambient temperatures due to the activity of maggots and bacteria (Early and > Goff, 1986; Greenberg, 1991). The stench also becomes strong. This stage is > reported to last three days in the summer, and five to seven days in the > spring and fall for fully exposed human corpses (Rodriguez and Bass, 1983). > This stage ends when the gases escape and the bloated carcass collapses. > > (end quote) > > Ibid > > It is at this stage that large numbers of bodies, releasing gas mixed with > bodily fluids, could produce the phenomenon reported by Eichmann and others. > > Philip Mathews > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:35 EDT 1999 Article: 191800 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:37:14 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 255 Message-ID: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> References: <38128264.A1B983DE@catskill.net> <19991024030218.14184.00000428@ng-fk1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191800 alt.revisionism:688993 Dear Mrs Poniecka, First of all thank you for not leveling on me a river of verbal abuse as other Holocaustian do it to me systematically. I do appreciate that you respond with reasonable but weak (in my estimation) arguments. Below I will argue if and were you are wrong : PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > I'm combining your two posts into one. Also, perhaps you should just continue > posting these kinds of questions to alt.revisionism, where there is more > interest. > > *** Probably similar sea of information is about Dachau and searching > bibliography alone would take a few weeks. *** > > There is no easy way. You will have to start reading now, immediately, and > maybe in a few years you will find your answers. Perhaps you can start with the > book by Msgr. Grabowski, which can be obtained from the Polish American Journal > Internet Bookstore. Because of you civil response I will try to obtain in through a interlibratry loan and xerocoy it extensively in order to literally poke fun at unavoidable confabulations in all memoirs. Such confabulations are even to be found in the first post war Holocaustiana a book written by a Polish Jewess Severyna Szmaglewska entitled Dymy nad Birkenau. It was obligatory reading when I was in eight grade in Poland and I believed every word of it like apparently you believe every word of rev Grabowski. Szmaglewska completed the book on July 7, 1945 after surviving three years of tortures at the Death Camp, not mere three days described by some priest cited by you below. Still instantly after the release her mind was clear like a clarinet to write a martyrological bestseller witch went in Poland through 52 editions! Astonishingly, fresh from the camp she described details of the tortures but hardly anything about smoking chimneys and the sine qua non of the Holocaust the industrial murder of the Jews by gassings and mass cremations. Instead she nearly poetically zeroed in on the cruelties of Polish and Jewish Kapos and their Nazi overseers. It seems that the tortures were conductive to creative literary activity and not as expected mental inanition. > > > *** One would expect that after the horrors of the camps liberated inmates > should pass away in a few months after their release, would you not agree?? *** > > I most certainly would not. My parents, grandmother and uncle survived, but > required extensive medical treatments, and suffered ill effects all their > lives. I disagree with you. My aunt survived Durchfall dysentery in Ravensbrucke and did not required treatment. Recovery from dysentery and typhus is none or spontaneous. In any event there was no significant therapy for these disorders at that time due to lack of medicines and paliative hospital therapy. There was also no significant therapy for Tuberculosis in late 1940 as paraminosalicilic acid and especially the Streptomycin were invented in early 1950s. Tuberculosis was ramparnt amnong the inmates of the concentration camps. Before advent of antibiotics and eventually of Isoniacid (I am not sure of spelling of this medicine, Dr. Gorski a.k.a ORAC from alt.revisionism please correct me). I remember my Jewish aunt swallowing huge amounts of huge pills called PAS who apparently as a seven years old was infected with TB in Bierkenau. She is [claims] one of those fat Jewish babies photographed with Polish nuns between electric wires on the day of liberation. Later in life she suffered from obesity but she did not treat that condition and claimed it was caused by medical experiments performed on her by the Nazis. Her twin brother also suffered from obesity, became a physician and died of myocardial infarction about 15 years ago. He did not married but did not look eunuchoid. Aunt Zosia got married and had one child thus she was not sterilized by the Nazis. I think their obesity if it was not genetic it was due to the fact that they were well off: Zosias husband being member of the communist party and junior college director. Aunt Zosia was a care taker and guardian angel of my sick and dying mother. Zosia incessantly fed us with holocaustian martyrological stories. Out of respect I never told her that I became holocaust revisionist. Should I? > > I hope this news won't shock you, but there are survivors of death camps or > concentration camps who are still alive today. You may have to perform a > revision of your current thinking. I find it suspicious that longevity of the death camp survivors !!! If despite deprivations mental and physical survivors of the concentration camps live into old age and write books, perhaps we should do away with Headstarts and dump these redundant (fatherless) AA children (afroamerican) and Latino children into some concentrationgardens ... how do you respond to this conclusion Mrs Poniecka?? Your data lead to this conclusions. I state that Nazi concentration camps were deadly due to executions and epidemics but other prisoners were adequately nourished and not persecuted. Their stories are just post war politically correct martyrological confabulations. > > > *** My relatives and acquaintances who survived Siberian camps usually returned > toothless and prematurely aged and died within years after their release in > late 1950s.*** > > I've actually met more Siberian survivors than Nazi camp survivors. Some were > children at the time. Have you heard of the Afrikaner organization? You must make distinction between Siberian survivors and Gulag survivors. Poles in Siberia were rarely imprisoned in Gulags populated mostly by Ukrainians, and other political prisoners. Our Polish relatives had rough time in Kazachstan but they were not interned behind the wires and raised marginal crops in strategically important cotton in this hot and cold, semidessert land. > > > *** Did you also notice Mrs Poniecka that there is a virtual absence of > memoirs of Siberia survivors? *** > > That is not true. In fact, more have been appearing in English recently. Give a dozen of titles and how accurate they can be after half a century. I am sure you will have a difficult time to find a dozen while I can provide you with a old printout of close to 10,000 Auschwitz titles. Be honest Mrs Poniecka and specific. Do not hide behind misleading and obfuscating generalities "more have been appearing recently." > > > *** Not that I believe in survivors or refugees stories.*** > > You didn't believe your own relatives, who survived Siberian camps? It turned out that the stories of my Mother about gassings of Polish priests at Radogoszcz prison camp near Lodz and burning them alive turned out to be untrue according to orthodox (mainstream) Polish historians. Of course I do not and will not believe my relatives stories unless supported by physical evidence!!! > > > *** Without reading Rev Grabowski memoir I classify it as such a confabulatory > martyrological story. *** > > If you have trouble obtaining it, let me know and I'll contact the editor. I replied to that above. I will not purchase it in order not to financially support popular untruths. > > > *** Is it possible that Hitler imprisoned 1,800 Polish priest for their Polish > patriotism and anti-Nazis stand??? *** > Below, you eveaded my question with martyrological confabulations about grotesque and sensless and fabricated stories. If these stories were true, they would be known DURIG the WW II. Catholic sources like massive compilation of records on clergy at Dachau by Domagala/Jacewicz, Kempner Benedicta Maria, and especially REev. Emil Thoma Die Geistlichen in Dachau, the 1971 imprint of the Mission Printshop of St Gabriel total of over 1,000 pages indicate that about 20% of imprisoned priests were released by the Nazis during the WW II. Why these released priests did not report these mistreatments to Vatican or better, did not inform Polish underground which would immediately or prudent delay transmit them by shortwaves to London and the BBC would broadcast them back to Poland over the shoert wave "Radio Anna." This transmittal of information was uncanny in regard to speed and efficiency when in was relating facts. When Nazis executed some Poles for hiding Jews or underground activity in little town of Zgierz near Lodz in the morning the news of the execution of 92 Zgierz'ans was broadcasted in Polish language in the daily evening news service! Underground Polish ham operators could compete with the speed of CNN TV of today and even with the Internet!!! SS released about 2,000 prisoners from Auschwitz including prof BArtoszewski which in his memoirs published by Zofia Szczucka during the war he forgot to mention the homicidal gassings!!! > But your priests and Bartoszewski after 50 years come back at as with enhanced(?) > represed memories like Wilkomirski and hundreds of others. As prof Stein wrote and Patrick Buchanan repeated these are Judaic [holocaustianl] group phantasies of martyrodom. And Stein is partially right about the sobriquet 'Judaic'. Numerous Kosovar survivors reported of massacre 700 of them massacred by Serbians and dumped into abandoned minshaft. First page story in the Newspaper of Record and others [Jew]media (excuse my derogatory) . But when after a few weeks of excavations, investigators of the Hague Tribunal found nothing it was a back page story. I believe that it should be in reverse, alleged massacre should be reported on back page and the retraction on the front page to prevent future misinformation. But for this idea(s) I am being perenially refered to psychiatrists by my oponents if not worse. > > If this were absolutely and unequivocally true, it would not explain some of > the brutal treatment of priests of various nationalities, which ridiculed the > Christian religion and its symbols, especially the cross. Examples: > > At Mauthausen/Gusen: Dr.Johann Gruber, Austrian priest, was killed personally > after 3 days of torture by the commander of KZ Gusen Camp, SS-Hauptsturmfueher > Seidler, on Holy Friday at 3 p.m. with the words: "Like your teacher (Jesus), > you also shall die at the 3rd hour!". > > Also at Gusen, since all religious practices were forbidden, many priests were > punished or killed when exposed as priests or when betrayed for practicing > their faith. > > At Dachau: On Good Friday in 1943, an SS man whipped a priest with a piece of > barbed wire, then wrapped it around the priest's head, shouting, "Did you know > that Christ died today?" > > The Pope himself drew special attention to the fate of Archbishop Julian > Nowowiejski, who at the age of 83 was beaten, stripped naked and humiliated by > concentration camp guards for refusing to step on his bishop's cross. Pope publicly cried and prayed in His homily in 1979 for the 4,000,000 million victims of the the mostly Jews at Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial. Now this count is reduced by Jewish Auschwitz experts to 470,000 (J.c. Pressac 1966) > > > According to another reference, "The Fuhrer's pet philosopher, Alfred > Rosenberg, drew up a 30-point plan for a "Reich Church"; points 18-20 decreed > that: "... the Bible be removed from all churches, to be replaced with the one > true book, Mein Kampf. A sword must be placed on the altar; all crucifixes > shall be replaced with the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika..." > Please give full citation and its location > > Ms. Borowska, I have no interest in your questions, I have no intention of > answering your questions, and I am not responsible for answering your > questions. Good luck in your quest for the truth, but you will have to find it > yourself. If all else fails, try the Dachau Museum. We have something in common. I just wrote a letter to Dachau. Greetings and Szczesc Boze > > > PONIECKA From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:36 EDT 1999 Article: 191802 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:59:36 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 86 Message-ID: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688999 soc.culture.polish:191802 soc.culture.ukrainian:59610 soc.culture.german:142495 soc.culture.russian:159524 British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a few years later in Poland. Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim citation from his book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric on the day of his transfer to Polish authorities. Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three year regin at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? I would like to respect you as an honest exterminationist. If you have no good contra-argument admit to it. To some questions posed by you we revisionists do not have (hopefully as yet) good answeres and we admit to it e.g. why 50% of Polish priests died at Dachau while none of Ukrainian or Lithuanian priests. Polina Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net>... > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" > > > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > recent book > > that he was tortured. > > First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when Hoess denied > his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on to > state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him drunk. > This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he was > transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > His face is unmarked. > > Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he does not > exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the Lonodn > accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held in a > Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish executioner. > > Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess was a DEFENSE > witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner to > give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > > I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these trial would > not know these simple facts. > > > > or a signle document named in the analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > The above is incomprehensible to me. > > Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at Nuremberg about the > persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove these > crimes. > > NAME THEM!!!! > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:36 EDT 1999 Article: 191803 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:03:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 77 Message-ID: <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689000 soc.culture.polish:191803 soc.culture.ukrainian:59611 soc.culture.german:142497 soc.culture.russian:159525 Dear Yale I am not keen student of Nuremberg because I consider this as an apparent Salem Massachusets trial; victors vengence not justice; a or the Farce and show trial on soviet terms and style. I did not mentioned forgery not in relation to persecution of Chruches but with Katyn and soap and Treblinka in mind (2,000,000 victim count in steam houses) This answeres your barb. Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net>... > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" > > > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > recent book > > that he was tortured. > > First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when Hoess denied > his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on to > state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him drunk. > This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he was > transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > His face is unmarked. > > Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he does not > exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the Lonodn > accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held in a > Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish executioner. > > Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess was a DEFENSE > witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner to > give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > > I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these trial would > not know these simple facts. > > > > or a signle document named in the analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > The above is incomprehensible to me. > > Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at Nuremberg about the > persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove these > crimes. > > NAME THEM!!!! > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:36 EDT 1999 Article: 191805 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Good and tough response to an anti-Semite >>Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:06:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689001 soc.culture.polish:191805 soc.culture.ukrainian:59612 soc.culture.russian:159526 soc.culture.jewish:417718 soc.culture.german:142498 Dear Grazyna, The new title is self explanatory Szczesc Boze (God Bless you in Polish) >from Polina Grazyna Lesniak wrote: > Errno Mobay > >kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > > > >>When will the horror end? > (...) > >When every Jew--man, woman and child--commits suicide? > > I hope you consider what you believe to be a solution by yourself. > Quicker, better and more justified. > > Grazyna From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:36 EDT 1999 Article: 191859 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:13:45 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191859 alt.revisionism:689058 soc.culture.ukrainian:59630 soc.culture.german:142554 PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > >Below I will argue if and were you are wrong > > Why do you keep posting these questions on soc.culture.polish? If and when I > have time, maybe I'll respond, but only on the NG alt.revisionism. > > PONIECKA The reasons are simple and multiple Both the First World War 'holocaust' of the 'six million Jews and 800,000 Jewish children' and the WW II "Holocaust' of 6,000,000 took place in Poland and Ukraine Revisionsism of these holocausts is part of Polish life with Dr. Ratajczak from the University of Opole being the first revisionist ("dissident') being tried for this "heresy", Gallileo times back again and Volodymyr Katylnyckyj, 43, victim of Polyo, assasinated in Kyiv two years ago for publicizing the Soviet hoax of the Babi Yar. I wonder when our Pope will come with a statement condemning revisionists. Revisonism is a gene which thanks to Pat Buchanan and persistent work and sacrifices of handfull of individuals commited to the truth and not martyrological mythology will not go back into bottle. In 1996, Eli Zborowski the editor of the Martyrs and Resistance the official publication of the WW II Holocaust survivors called the end of this century as the "era of revisionism' Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR Polina From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:38 EDT 1999 Article: 191865 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:38:41 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 148 Message-ID: <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689065 soc.culture.polish:191865 soc.culture.german:142562 soc.culture.russian:159562 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > My title is self explanatory > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. 1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". It is produced by hydrolysis [break down] of animal fat into fatty acids and glycerol and addition of sodium hydroxide and forming from the original esters a fatty acid sodium salt. No one invented production of saponyfying agent from human or any protein. 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them available for interlibrary loans. I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete but the most complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the basement of the obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this university removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate Sterling library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. Apparently even its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university is the Guttenberg Bible on a permanent display in its atomic blast-safe modernistic and beautiful building storing ancient manuscripts. Every night the display descends into A-bomb proof shelter. Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult and apriori non-productive in a court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was abolished and affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. Thus C. Porter found out that the "fact" that Nazis exterminated Jews at Auschwitz with atomic bomb has been accepted as proven. Thus who should care about nuremberg except for most fanatical Holocaustians? Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the human-fat-soap hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg there is a photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in Cyrylic script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. Am I correct about this photograph?? In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now accepted by orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. Polina > > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single > prosecution > > > witness > > > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > > > analysis > > > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > > > authentic. > > > > > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > > > jews. > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter > fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > evidence of the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually > use the > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence > that > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > honest and > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by > the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > therefore, > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > without end > > > but without beginning. > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason > why the > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:38 EDT 1999 Article: 191867 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:43:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 109 Message-ID: <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689069 soc.culture.polish:191867 soc.culture.german:142564 soc.culture.russian:159563 Dear Yale, You are using Madison Ave technique of asdvertising that falsity repeated 1,000 times becomes truth. It works for a long time as the tobacco industry is learning today. Indicdentally your evil Adolf Hitler did not some and advocated abstinence from it because German physicians suspected decades before American physicians that smoking causes cancer. Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > My title is self explanatory > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single > prosecution > > > witness > > > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > > > analysis > > > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > > > authentic. > > > > > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > > > jews. > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter > fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > evidence of the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually > use the > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence > that > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > honest and > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by > the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > therefore, > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > without end > > > but without beginning. > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason > why the > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:38 EDT 1999 Article: 191868 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:45:46 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> <01bf1e4b$dd8c4080$579b10cf@default> <7uvjv4$l7f$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689070 soc.culture.polish:191868 soc.culture.ukrainian:59635 soc.culture.german:142565 soc.culture.russian:159564 Dear Grazyna, You also do not know that adjectives belong to poetry and not science. Remember Nicholas Copernicus, the greatest revisionist of all times Polina Grazyna Lesniak wrote: > Yale F.Edeiken > >polin wrote in article > (...) > > Now go a read about the Nuremberg trials and come back with something > >other than your foot-stamping idiocy. > > I didn't know the phrase "foot-stamping idiocy". > If that's what you think about the author when you read "polina' s" > postings - I understand it perfectly now. Thanks :) > > Grazyna From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:38 EDT 1999 Article: 191870 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:53:02 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 121 Message-ID: <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689073 soc.culture.polish:191870 soc.culture.ukrainian:59636 soc.culture.german:142566 soc.culture.russian:159565 It is extememly difficult to discuss matters with Yale. Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and being part of Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000 plus 500,000 victims who died due to disease and privation. It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to know how may victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number to Berlin not vice versa. Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net>... > > British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a few > years later > > in Poland. > > But you stated "British hangman." Apparently you were unaware of that > basic fact. > > > Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim > citation from his > > book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! > > Which is a lie. You are asserting it and claiming you rely on it. You > produce any such description. > > > Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric on > the day of his > > transfer to Polish authorities. > > There were no marks on his face. Clarke claimed he hit Hoess in the face. > There are no marks on his face. > > > Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three > year regin > > at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > He didn't. You are clearly misrepresenting his statement. He gave a > figure of 2,500,000 for a period of time including when he was NOT > commander of Auschwitz and stated specifically that it was an estimate > based on what Eichmann told him. Both his testimony at Nuremberg and in > his memoirs was 1,500,000 for a period including the time when he was not > at Auschwitz. > > > I would like to respect you as an honest exterminationist. > > But you will tell these known lies continually. > > > If you have no good > > contra-argument admit to it. > > The best argument is that you do not what you are talking about. > > You continually make mistakes about the most basic of facts. > > > To some questions posed by you we revisionists do not > > have (hopefully as yet) good answeres and we admit to it e.g. why 50% of > Polish > > priests died at Dachau while none of Ukrainian or Lithuanian priests. > > That is simply not true. This is another example of the type of > deliberate misrepresentations in which you routinely engage. > > > > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > > > recent book > > > > that he was tortured. > > > > > > First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when > Hoess denied > > > his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on > to > > > state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him > drunk. > > > This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he > was > > > transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > > > His face is unmarked. > > > > > > Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he > does not > > > exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the > Lonodn > > > accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held > in a > > > Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish > executioner. > > > > > > Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess > was a DEFENSE > > > witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner > to > > > give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > > > > > > I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these > trial would > > > not know these simple facts. > > > > > > > Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at > Nuremberg about the > > > persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > > > evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > > > nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove > these > > > crimes. > > > > > > NAME THEM!!!! > > And he still hasn't. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:38 EDT 1999 Article: 191871 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Good and tough response to an anti-Semite >>Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:59:28 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <38138F4F.B86578AC@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191871 soc.culture.ukrainian:59637 Drogi Panie Jakubie i ORAC rzekomy Polak ktory nigdy nic nie pisze na scp Otoz ja czasem wam posylam wiadomosci na elepoczte dlatego ze klawisze "reply" i "reply all" or sa obok siebie. Starosc powoduje niezgrabnosc palcy i nie ma nic wspolnego z uczuciami. jacob wrote: > Grazyna Lesniak wrote in message <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>... > > > >polin > >>Dear Grazyna, > >> > >>The new title is self explanatory > > > >"Good and tough" ? Oh, no, "dear Polina". > >Realistic only. Everone should try by himself what he believes to be > >the best solution for others. > > > >BTW, how do you, revisionists, revision your own absurd theses? > > > > > >>Szczesc Boze (God Bless you in Polish) > > > > > >Thanks but I'm an atheist. > > > >Grazyna > > > >PS. Please, don't send your responses to my private address - I read > >this NG and discuss just here. > > To nie tylko mnie ta Polin uszczesliwila prywatna poczta? > A ja myslalem, ze tylko mnie ta Polin darzy taka wielka sympatia. > > jakub > > From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:59 EDT 1999 Article: 141498 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!newsfeed.torontointernetxchange.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,ssoc.cult.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: More Documentary Proof for Mass Murder in Treblinka Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:49:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 99 Message-ID: <38082013.FE869FEF@catskill.net> References: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:687460 soc.culture.ukrainian:59359 soc.culture.german:141498 Dear Daniel, Where do you see proof of mass murder in the document you cite below?? To me this document indicates that unstipulated number of Jews was improperly interred at an impromptu, transit (or de-golding) camp in Treblinka. Treblinka was established within four weeks on July 22, 1942. Probably close to 1,000,000 of Polish and European Jews passed through this 200 meters by 300 meters camp which essentially closed on August 2 1943, and was dismantled by November 1943. To bury 1,000,000 individuals, the mass grave would have to be 100,000 square meters large, while the camp was only 60,000 sq m. I think that there could be only one proof that 1,000,000 Jews were killed at Treblinka. It would have to come from an archeological and forensic exploration of the site of the camp indicating the size of the mass grave and and perhaps showing the presence of shards of the red ceramic tile which allegedly lined the gas chambers. However such examination prompted by the Central Committee of the Polish Jews in fall of 1945 and conducted by a Jewish magistrate Judge Lukaszkiewicz failed to provide such a proof or an evidence. Wartime aerial photos show that the mass grave at the Treblinka II camp for the Jews was 100% smaller than the mass graves at the Treblinka I camp for the Poles and 10% smaller than the mass graves at the Katyn Forest. Treblinka II was just a de-golding camp in which Jews who died in transit on the trains were carelessly burried in post-glacial sand dune, 107 meters away from the flood plain of the River Bug which supplied drinking water to the large German populations along Vistula, Danzing (Gdansk) included. Little wonder that in Spring 1943, the Nazi Warsaw District Health Department ordered exhumation at Treblinka II. It is a fiction that the Nazis tried to cover their crime via cremations. They did not bother to exhume mass graves at the Treblinka I, twice as large as at the Treblinka II! The Treblinka I mass graves were about one mile away from the flood plain of the river Bug. It is prudent to assume that each rail transport of Jews traveled on average three days. Some of the Jews were brought to Treblinka from as far as Greece travveled for over a week. The 4,000 Jews buried at the Treblinka II camp were those who died in transit. In 1942-43, young and strong Jews were left to work in the ghettos labor camps providing for the Whermacht. Those who were unfit to such work, many sick and old, were transported to Treblinka. 1,000,000 such Jews arrived at Treblinka II in 10,000 freight cars. Thus it is prudent to assume that there was a cadaver or a person in coma in every second of such cattle cars i.e. 2,500 dead and 2,500 preagonal individuals. Samuel Willenberg in his 1992 book published in Israel (Surviving Treblinka) indicates that at that camp Jewish doctors-prisoners were doing euthanasia at the sick (pre-agonal) arrivals. Thus littel wonder that the war time air photos show mass grave for about 4,000 individuals. Sincerly, Polina Borowska memer of the Polish Historical Society. Daniel Keren wrote: > http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka/images/ > ostrow1.jpg,ostrow2.jpg > > War Diary No. 1, daily report from Military Commander in the > Generalgouvernement (Nazi-occupied Poland). Cover page of the diary > is in ostrow1.jpg. Report from October 24, 1942 (see ostrow2.jpg), > contains the following text: > > "Supreme Command Ostrow informs that the Jews in Treblinka are not > adequately buried and that, as a result, an unbearable body stench > befouls the air." > > This document is not only clear proof that Treblinka was functioning > as an extermination center at that date, but it also reinforces the > testimonies of the survivors and the SS-staff, to the affect that > the corpses of the victims were first buried and later burned, in an > attempt to remove criminal traces, and for the reason given in the > above report. > > I am grateful to Dr. Ulrich Roessler for pointing out this > document, to Gord McFee for the translation, and to the Militararchiv > in Freiburg for sending me a copy. > > -Danny Keren. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:24:59 EDT 1999 Article: 141542 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukraian,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: American looters during WW II >>Today's Washington Post. Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 19:38:50 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 52 Message-ID: <38090C8A.3112FB75@catskill.net> References: <7u78q6$fkv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:190459 soc.culture.german:141542 alt.revisionism:687580 jerzy wk wrote: > Well, well, I thought that nothing is going to surprise me... > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/oct99/train15.htm > > Jerzy WK Above article is about "discovery" that American military was stealing Jewish gold paintigs carpets and silver. For some reason humanity has propensity for theft, including Germans. However, when German soldiers engaged in looting, Germans engaged in prosecuting them DURING the WW II. 1) for example, in late 1941 Dr Lach the SS Fuhrer of the district of Galicia and brother of wife of Dr Hans Frank the Governor of General Governement and personal atty of A. Hitler was cought in appropriating of carpets, paintings and antique furniture of deported Lemberg's (Lwow's) Jews, he was immediately replaced by Dr Wachter, tried by the SS Court in Breslau (Wroclaw) and imprisoned, while H. Frank was handing in resignations because of family ties. After 1945 Dr. Lach was again tried at Nuremberg and imprisoned again, but none of stealing Americans (or British soldiers). 2)) In 1944 the Commendant of Majdanek and later Bergen Belsen camps, SS major, Carl Koch was cought by the SS judiciary for embrezelment of inmates property> Koch was arested in 1944 and executed on February 9, 1945 when the III Reich was about to collapse. 3) iN 1943, Some Jews at the camp in Poniatowa complained to camps SS Administration that an Ukrainian and Polish Trawniki Guards stole from them 150 marks an equivalent of about $7,000.00 today. About two years ago at the Archives of the Main Commission for the Nazi Crimes at WArsaw I read the file of the proceedings against these guards who were punished with three weeks of solitary confinment and transfer to Shtuthoff camp. I invite any exterminationist to show me similar examples of prosecution of American or British soldiers for similar transgressions. Polina Borowska > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:00 EDT 1999 Article: 141549 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukraian,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: American looters during WW II >>Today's Washington Post. Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 01:33:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 72 Message-ID: <38095FC2.4BDF3E94@catskill.net> References: <7u78q6$fkv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38090C8A.3112FB75@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:190525 soc.culture.german:141549 alt.revisionism:687634 Dear Mr Morris, Most of the Holocaust revisionists are eager students, even when the well documented knowledge comes from the Holocaustians or exterminationists. Thanks for your posting. I knew nothing about the works of prof J. Robert Lilly. 1) But while reading his article on the subject of executions of American soldiers I was under the impression that they were NOT military secrets but hardly any one except Lilly took interest in them. Please correct me if I misread Lilly's article 2) All of the 18 American soldiers were executed by the military for rape, murder or murder following rape while these soldiers were stationed in Britain and were not exposed to enemy alliens, such as those imprisoned in concentration camps. Germans executed their own for mistreating the Jews! Did Americans or Allies executed or punished any of their soldiers for mistreating Germans or Italians or Japaneese? 3) It is of interest but probably statistically insignificant that 79% of executed American soldiers were Negro or Latinos. Or perhaps it is sociologically and politically significant? With revisionist thanks to an angry exterminationist remains yours, Polina Borowska John Morris wrote: > In <38090C8A.3112FB75@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sat, 16 Oct > 1999 19:38:50 -0400, Joseph Pawlikowski pretending to be a woman named > polin wrote: > > >jerzy wk wrote: > > >> Well, well, I thought that nothing is going to surprise me... > > >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/oct99/train15.htm > > [snip] > > >However, when German soldiers engaged in looting, Germans engaged in > >prosecuting them DURING the WW II. > > [snip] > > >I invite any exterminationist to show me similar examples of prosecution > >of American or British soldiers for similar transgressions. > > The problem is one of sources. German military justice records were > not classified as military secrets by the Allies. Yet it is standard > procedure for American military trials, for instance, to be classified > as military secrets. It is only now that studies are being conducted > such as J. Robert Lilly's study of 18 select cases of US military > executions of American soldiers in Britain during World War II. > > But one doesn't expect Padlikowski to look for the facts. He is too > busy playing apologist for the Nazis. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:01 EDT 1999 Article: 141681 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukraian,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: American looters during WW II >>Today's Washington Post. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:24:34 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 101 Message-ID: <380B57D2.6B247579@catskill.net> References: <7u78q6$fkv$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38090C8A.3112FB75@catskill.net> <38095FC2.4BDF3E94@catskill.net> <7ucjpd$qe8$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E" Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:190814 soc.culture.german:141681 alt.revisionism:687867 --------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grazyna Lesniak wrote: > polin > > (...) > >Germans executed their own for mistreating the Jews! > (...) > > Dear Polin ; > > I'm always ready to revision my knowledge and opinions. > Let me follow your magnificent way of thinking: > > -isn't exterminating the nation a "mistreating" > -or did Germans execute all nazis ? > > just curious > > Grazyna NPJC, Dear Grazyna: While it is obvious to revisionists that the Endlosung or Final Solution was Nazi euphemism for total expropriation of European Jews in revenge for boycotting of the German foreign trade since March 24, 1933 (resulting in its reduction to 61% according to The Jewish Chronicle of London of February 5, 1939) - the matter of industrial killing of Jews is hotly disputed and still remains to be proven by archeology of the mass graves, forensic and toxicological data on Zyclon B and Diesel exhaust and wartime and post war high resolution aerial photography. Your "Epoka Piecow" and "Epoka Zaglady" ( Era of Ovens and Era of Annihilation in Polish) is willting in the same manner as the First World War 'holocaust' of 6,000,000 Jews and 800,000 Jewish children wilted into oblivion. This First WW 'holocaust' widely publicized then by the politicians in the USA, allegedly took place in Poland and Ukraine and took place due to the "lust for the Jewish blood." I hope I satisfied your curiosity. Since you are fluent in English please translate it for your collegues at the Silesian Institute of Technology. Greetings from Polina and Szczesc Boze. wkw please email it to Gmurczyk --------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Grazyna Lesniak wrote:

polin

(...)
>Germans executed their own for mistreating the Jews!
(...)

Dear Polin ;

I'm always ready to revision my knowledge and opinions.
Let me follow your magnificent way of thinking:

-isn't exterminating the nation a "mistreating"
-or did Germans execute all nazis ?

just curious

Grazyna

NPJC,

Dear Grazyna:

While it is obvious to revisionists that the Endlosung or Final Solution was Nazi euphemism for total expropriation of European Jews in revenge for boycotting of the German foreign trade since March 24, 1933 (resulting in its reduction to 61% according to The Jewish Chronicle of London of February 5, 1939) -

the matter of industrial killing of Jews is hotly disputed and still remains to be proven by archeology of the mass graves, forensic and toxicological data on Zyclon B and Diesel exhaust and wartime and post war high resolution aerial photography.

Your "Epoka Piecow" and  "Epoka Zaglady" ( Era of Ovens and  Era of Annihilation in Polish)  is willting in the same manner as the First World War 'holocaust' of 6,000,000 Jews and 800,000 Jewish children wilted into oblivion.  This First WW 'holocaust' widely publicized then by the politicians in the USA, allegedly took place in Poland and Ukraine and took place due to the "lust for the Jewish blood."

I hope I satisfied your curiosity.

Since you are fluent in English please translate it for your collegues at the Silesian Institute of Technology.

Greetings from Polina and Szczesc Boze.
wkw please email it to Gmurczyk --------------2ED8A7B36B4FD4FA7F589E1E-- From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:01 EDT 1999 Article: 142105 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.new-york.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:44:03 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 1449 Message-ID: <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688503 soc.culture.polish:191479 soc.culture.ukrainian:59474 soc.culture.german:142105 soc.culture.russian:159112 Dear Mr Mc Vay, In the "[present] era of revisionism" (term in editorial in Martyrs and Resistance Dec. 1996) who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained during Nuremberg trials? ... I guess only naive ones or fanatical holocaustians. I will bet on January 27, 1939 The New York Times which explicitly acknowledged that from among the western leaders Hitler was the only one who paid salaries to clergymen of all denominations, while some of them the politically active he interned or imprisoned at Dachau. In 1940, he put behind barbed wires about 1,400 Polish Catholic priests while the others, explicitly less patriotic drew the Nazi salaries, and printed as usual their religous literature on cellulose, a rationed and strategically important material ( used in production of nitrocellulose [smokeless powder and bandages for wounded soldiers]). While Hitler was supportive of apolitical religion and Polish and Ukrainian priests, unimpeeded, printed their religeous literature, another dictator the CPSU Comm Party of the USSR ) abolished virtually all religeous printing in Poland until 1956 and abolished the church (Catholic) of Western Ukraine and imprisoned all of its bishops. Why do you drone and exaggerate about Adolf Hitler and remain silent about Uncle Stalin. Do you have any love for the latter because he was protective of the Communist Jews and played Hatikva on the Moscow Radio and Solomon Lozovsky was his chief of Propaganda? And, while even during the war Hitler was paying clergy's salaries, Roosevelt and Churchill have never done it in the peace time. Greetings from Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > Perhaps Mr. Vangel would like to comment on the Nazi campaign to > destroy Christianity within areas under their control, as outlined > during the first Nuremberg Tribunal? > > (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-means-30.html) > > Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-07-means-02 > Last-Modified: 1996/06/06 > > [Page 263] > > Chapter VII > > MEANS USED BY THE NAZI CONSPIRATORS IN GAINING > CONTROL OF THE GERMAN STATE > > 6. SUPPRESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES > > A. The Nazi conspirators sought to subvert the influence of > the churches over the people of Germany. > > (1) They sought to eliminate the Christian Churches in > Germany. > > (a) Statements of this aim. Martin Bormann stated in a > secret decree of the Party Chancellery signed by him and > distributed to all Gauleiters 7 June 1941: > > "Our National Socialist ideology is far loftier than > the con- > > [Page 264] > > cepts of Christianity, which in their essential points > have been taken over from > Jewry ***. A differentiation between the various > Christian confessions is not to be made here *** the > Evangelical Church is just as inimical to us as the > Catholic Church. *** All influences which might > impair or damage the leadership of the people exercised > by the > Fuehrer with the help of the NSDAP must be eliminated. > More and more the people must be separated from the > churches and their organs the pastors. *** Just as > the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and > other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the > State, so must the possibility of church influence also > be totally removed. *** Not until this has happened, > does the state leadership have influence on > the individual citizens. Not until then are the people > and Reich secure in their existence for all time." (D- > 75) > > Hans Kerrl, Reich Minister for Church Affairs, in a letter > dated 6 September 1939 to a Herr Stapel, which indicated > that it would be brought to the attention of the > Confidential Council and of the defendant Hess, made the > following statements: > > "The Fuehrer considers his efforts to bring the > Evangelical Church to reason, unsuccessful and the > Evangelical Church with respect to its condition > rightfully a useless pile of sects. As you emphasize > the Party has previously carried on not only a fight > against the political element of the Christianity of > the Church, but also a fight against > membership of Party Members in a Christian confession. > *** > > "The Catholic Church will and must, according to the > law under which it is set up, remain a thorn in the > flesh of a Racial State ***." (129-PS) > > Gauleiter Florian, in a letter dated 23 September 1940 to > the defendant Hess, stated: > > "The churches with their Christianity are the danger > against which to fight is absolutely necessary." (064- > PS) > > Regierungsrat Roth, in a lecture 22 September 1941, to a > group of Security Police, in the Reich Main Security Office > (RSHA) concluded his address on Security Police (Sipo) > measures for combatting church politics and sects with the > following remarks: > > "The immediate aim: the church must not regain one inch > of the ground it has lost. The ultimate aim: > Destruction of the Confessional Churches to be brought > about by the collection of all material obtained > through the intelligence service (Nachrihtendienst) > activities which will at a given time be produced as > evidence for the charge of treasonable activities > during the German fight for existence." (1815-PS) > > The Party Organization Book states: > > "Bravery is valued by the SS man as the highest virtue > of men in a struggle for his ideology. > > [Page 265] > > "He openly and unrelentingly fights the most dangerous > enemies of the State; Jews, Free Masons, Jesuits, and > political clergymen. > > "However, he recruits and convinces the weak and > inconstant by his example, who have not been able to > bring themselves to the National Socialistic ideology." > (1855-PS) > > (b) The Nazi conspirators promoted beliefs and practices > incompatible with Christian teachings. The 24th point of the > Program of the NSDAP, unchanged since its adoption in 1920, > is as follows: > > "We demand freedom of religion for all religious > denominations within the state so long as they do not > endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of > the germanic race. The Party as such advocates the > standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding > itself confessionally to any one denomination. It > combats the Jewish materialistic spirit within and > around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of > our nation can only succeed from within on the > framework: common utility precedes individual utility." > (1708-PS) > > In official correspondence with the defendant Rosenberg in > 1040, Bormann stated: > > "Christian religion and National Socialist doctrines > are not compatible. *** The churches cannot be > subjugated through compromise, only through a new > philosophy as prophesied in osenberg's works." > > He then proposed creation of a National Socialist Catechism > to provide a "moral foundation" for a National Socialist > religion which is gradually to supplant the Christian > churches. He stated the matter was so important it should be > discussed with members of the Reich Cabinet as soon as > possible and requested Rosenberg's opinion before the > meeting. (098-PS) > > In a secret decree of the Party Chancellery, signed by > Bormann and distributed to all Gauleiters on 7 June 1941, > the following statements appeared: > > "When we National Socialists speak of a belief in God, > we do not understand by God, like naive Christians and > their spiritual opportunists, a human-type being, who > sits around somewhere in the sphere ***. The force of > natural law, with which all these > innumerable planets move in the universe, we call the > Almighty, or God. The claim that this world force *** > can be influenced by so-called prayers or other > astonishing things is based upon a proper dose of > naivete or on a business shamelessness. > > [Page 265] > > "As opposed to that we National Socialists impose on > ourselves the demand to live naturally as much as > possible, i.e., biologically. The more accurately we > recognize and observe the laws of nature and of life, > the more we adhere to them, so much the more do we > conform to the will of the Almighty. The more insight > we have into the will of the > Almighty, the greater will be our successes." (D-75) > > Rosenberg in his book "The Myth of the 20th Century" > advocated a new National Socialist faith or religion to > replace the Christian confessions in Germany. He stated that > the Catholic and Protestant churches represent "negative > Christianity" and do not correspond to the soul of the > "Nordic racially determined peoples"; that a German > religious movement would have to declare that the idea of > neighborly love is unconditionally subordinated to national > honor; that national > honor is the highest human value and does not admit of any > equal valued force such as Christian love. He predicted: > > "A German religion will, bit by bit, present in the > churches transferred to it, in place of the crucifixion > the spirit of fire the heroicin the highest sense." > (2349-PS) > > The Reich Labor Service (Reichsarbeitsdienst), a National > Socialist youth organization, was prohibited from > participating in religious celebrations of any kind, and its > members were instructed to attend only the parts of such > ceremonies as weddings and funerals which took > place before or after the church celebration. (107-PS) > > The Nazi conspirators considered religious literature > undesirable for the Wehrmacht. National Socialist > publications were prepared for the Wehrmacht for the > expressed purpose of replacing and counteracting the > influence of religious literature disseminated to the > troops. (101-PS; 100-PS; 064-PS) > > The Nazi conspirators through Rosenberg's Office for > Supervision of the Ideological Training and Education of the > NSDAP and the Office of the Deputy of the Fuehrer "induced" > the substitution of National Socialist mottoes and services > for religious prayers and services in the schools of > Germany. (070-PS) > > On 14 July 1939, Bormann, as Deputy of the Fuehrer, issued a > Party regulation excluding clergymen, persons closely > connected with the church, and Theology students from > membership in the Party. It was further decreed that in the > future Party Members who entered the clergy > or turned to the study of Theology must leave the Party. > (840-PS) > > (c) The Nazi conspirators persecuted priests, clergy and > members of monastic orders. The priests and clergy of > Germany were > > [Page 267] > > subjected by the police to systematic espionage into their > daily lives. The Nazi conspirators through the Chief of the > Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) maintained a special > branch of the Security Police and Security Service (Sipo/SD) > whose duties were to investigate the churches and maintain > constant surveillance upon the public and private lives of > the clergy. (1815-PS) > > At a conference of these police "church specialists" called > by Heydrich, who was then SS Gruppenfuehrer and Chief of the > Reich Main Security Office (RSHA), in Berlin, 23 September 1941, SS > Sturmbannfueherer Hartl, acting for Heydrich, stated that > the greatest importance was to > be attached to church political activity. The intelligence > network in this field, he continued, was to be fostered with > the greatest of care and enlarged with the recruitment of > informants, particular value being attached to contacts with > church circles. He closed his lecture with the following > words: > > "Each of you must go to work with your whole heart and > a true fanaticism. Should a mistake or two be made in > the execution of this work, this should in no way > discourage you, since mistakes are made everywhere. The > main thing is that the enemy should be constantly > tackled with determination, will, and effective > initiative." (1815-PS) > > In a letter of 22 October 1941, Heydrich, as Chief of the > Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) issued detailed > instructions to all State Police Offices outlining the > organization of the Catholic Church and directing close > surveillance of the activities, writings, and reports of the > Catholic clergy in Germany. In this connection he directed: > > "Reports are also to be submitted on those Theological > students destined for Papal Institutes, and Priests > returning from such institutes to Germany. Should the > opportunity arise of placing someone for intelligence > (Nachrichtendienst) purposes in one of these > Institutes, in the guise of a Theological student, we > should receive immediate notification." (1815-PS) > > Priests and other members of the clergy were arrested, > fined, imprisoned, and otherwise punished by executive > measures of the police without judicial process. In his > lecture before a conference at the Reich Main Security > Office (RSHA) in Berlin, for "church specialists," of the > Security Police, 22 November 1941, Regierungsrat Roth stated (1815- > PS): > > "It has been demonstrated that it is impracticable to > deal with political offenses (malicious) under normal > legal procedure. Owing to the lack of political > perception which still > > [Page 268] > > prevails among the legal authorities, suspension of > this procedure must be reckoned with. The so-called > "Agitator Priests" must therefore be dealt with in > future by Stapo measures, and, if the occasion arises, > be removed to a Concentration Camp, if agreed upon by > the RSHA. > > "The necessary executive measures are to be decided > upon according to local conditions, the status of the > person accused, and the seriousness of the caseas > follows: > > > 1. Warning > 2. Fine > 3. Forbidden to preach > 4. Forbidden to remain in parish > 5. Forbidden all activity as a priest > 6. Short-term arrest > 7. Protective custody." > > Members of monastic orders were forced by the seizure and > confiscation of their properties to give up their > established place of abode and seek homes elsewhere (R-101- > A; R-101-D). A secret order of the SS Economic > Administration Office to all Concentration Camp Commanders, > dated 21 April 1942, concerning labor mobilization of > clergy, reveals that clergymen were at that time, and had > previously been, incarcerated in Concentration Camps. (1164- > PS) > > On the death of von Hindenburg, the Reich Government ordered > the ringing of all church bells on 2 August 1934, 3 August > 1934 and 4 August 1934. In Bavaria, there were many > instances of failure to comply with this order. The Bavarian > police submitted a report outlining the above situation and > stating that in three cases the taking into protective > custody of recalcitrant clergy could not be avoided. > > "The Parish priest, Father Johann Quinger of > Altenkunstadt BA., Lichtenfels. He was taken into > protective custody on 3 August on the express order of > the State Ministry of the Interior, because he > assaulted SA leaders and SA men who were ringing the > bells against his wishes. He was released from custody > on 10 August 1934. > > "The Parish priest, Father Ludwig Obholzer of > Kiefersfelden, BA Rosenheim. For his personal safety he > was in police custody from 2400 hours on the 2 August > 1934, till 1000 hours on 3 August 1934. On 5 August > 1934, he said sarcastically in his sermon, referring to > the SA men who had carried out the ringing of the > funeral knell on their own account, 'Lord forgive them, > for they know not what they do' ! "The Parish priest, > Father Johann Nepomuk Kleber of Wie- > > [Page 269] > > felsdorf, BA Burglengenfeld, refused to ring the church > bells on the 2nd and 3rd. He is badly tainted > politically and had to be taken into protective custody > from the 5th to the 8th of August 34 in the interests > of his own safety." (1521-PS) > > After Hitler's rise to power, Bishop Sproll of Rottenburg > delivered a series of sermons regarded by the Nazis as > damaging, and on 10 April 1938 he refrained from voting in > the plebiscite. For this, the Reich Governor of Wuertemberg > declared he would no longer regard Bishop Sproll as head of > the Diocese of Rottenburg; made an official request that he > leave the Gau; and declared he would see to it that all > personal and official intercourse between the Bishop and the > State and > Party offices as well as the Armed Forces would be denied > (849-PS). For his alleged failure to vote in the plebiscite, > of 10 April 1938, the Party caused three demonstrations to > be staged against the Bishop and his household in > Rottenburg. The third demonstration was described as > follows in a teletype message from Gestapo Office Stuttgart > to Gestapo Office Berlin: > > "The Party on 23 July 1938 from 2100 on carried out the > third demonstration against Bishop Sproll. Participants > about 2,500-3,000 were brought in from outside by bus, > etc. The Rottenburg populace again did not participate > in the demonstration. The town took rather a hostile > attitude to the demonstrations. The action got > completely out of hand of the Party Member responsible > for it. The demonstrators stormed the palace, beat in > the gates and doors. About 150 to 200 people forced > their way into the palace, searched the rooms, threw > files out of the windows and rummaged through the beds > in the rooms of the palace. One bed was ignited. Before > the fire got to the other objects of equipment in the - > rooms and the palace, the flaming bed could be thrown > from the window and the fire extinguished. The Bishop > was with Archbishop Groeber of Freiburg and the ladies > and gentlemen of his menage in the chapel at prayer. > About 25 to 30 people pressed into this chapel and > molested those present. Bishop Groeber was taken for > Bishop Sproll. He was grabbed by the robe and dragged > back and forth. Finally the intruders realized that > Bishop Groeber is not the one they are seeking. They > could then be persuaded to leave the building. After > the evacuation of the palace by the demonstrators I had > an interview with Archbishop Groeber, who left > Rottenburg in the night. Groeber wants to turn to the > Fuehrer and Reich Minister of the Interior Dr. Frick > anew. On the course of the action, the damage done as > well as the homage > > [Page 270] > > of the Rottenburg populace beginning today for the > Bishop I shall immediately hand in a full report, after > I am in the act of suppressing counter mass meetings." > (848-PS) > > Reich Minister for Church Affairs Kerrl and other Party > officials alleged that these demonstrations were > spontaneously staged by indignant citizens of Rottenburg and > caused representations to be made to the Holy See in an > effort to effect the Bishop's removal from office. (89-PS) > > On or about 3 December 1941, a copy of a secret decree of > the Party Chancellery on the subject of Relationship of > National Socialism to Christianity was found by the Security > Police in the possession of Protestant Priest Eichholz at > Aix-la-Chapelle. For this he was arrested and held for > questioning for an unknown period of time. (D-75) > > (d) The Nazi conspirators confiscated church property. On 20 > January 1938, the Gestapo District Office at Munich issued a > decree dissolving the Guild of the Virgin Mary of the > Bavarian Diocese, together with its branches and > associations. The decree also stated: > > "The property belonging to the dissolved Guild is to be > confiscated by the police. Not only is property in cash > to be confiscated, but also any stock on hand and their > objects of value. All further activity is forbidden the > dissolved Guilds, particularly the foundation of any > organization intended as a successor or as a cover. > Incorporation as a body into other women's societies is > also to be looked on as a forbidden continuation of > activity. Infringements against the above prohibition > will be punished according to par. 4 of the order of 28 > February 1933." > > The reasons for the dissolution and confiscation were that > the Guild of the Virgin Mary had occupied itself for years > "to a most far-reaching degree" with arrangements of a > "worldly and popular sporting character" such as community > games and "social evenings"; and further that the > president of the society supplied the members with > "seditious materials" which served for "seditious > discussions"; and that the members of the Guild were trained > and mobilized for "political and seditious tasks." (1481- > PS) > > In a lecture delivered to a conference of police > investigators of Church Affairs assembled in the lecture > hall of the Reich Main Security Office (RSHA) in Berlin, 22 > September 1941, Regiersrungsrat Roth stated that about 100 > monasteries in the Reich had been dissolved and pointed out > that the proper procedure called for seizure of the churches > at the same time the monasteries were dissolved. (1815-PS) > > [Page 271] > > In February 1940, SS Gruppenfuehrer Heydrich suggested to > Himmler the seizure of monasteries for the accommodation of > Racial Germans. He proposed that the authorities of the > monastic orders be instructed to make the monasteries > concerned available and move their own members to less > populous monasteries. He pointed out that the final > expropriation of properties thus placed at their disposal > could be carried out step by step in the course of time. > Himmler agreed to this proposal and ordered the measure to > be carried out by the Security Police and > Security Service (Sipo and SD) in collaboration with the > Reich Commissioner for Consolidation of German Folkdom. (R- > 101-A) > > These orders for confiscation were carried out, as revealed > in a letter dated 30 March 1942 from the Reich Main Security > Office (RSHA) Chief of Staff to Himmler mentioning claims > for compensation pending in a number of confiscation cases. > In this letter he stated that all rental > payments to those monasteries and ecclesiastical > institutions whose premises had been put to use as camps for > resettlers had been stopped on receipt of Himmler's order. > Concerning current developments, he stated: > > "After further preparations in which-the Party > Chancellery participated prominently, the Reich > Minister of the Interior found a way which makes it > possible to seize ecclesiastical premises practically > without compensation and yet avoids the impression of > being a measure directed against the Church. ***" (R- > 101-D) > > In a letter of 19 April 1941, Bormann advised Rosenberg that > libraries and art objects of the monasteries confiscated in > the Reich were to remain for the time being in these > monasteries and that the Fuehrer had repeatedly rejected the > suggestion that centralization of all such libraries be > undertaken. (072-PS) > > (e) The Nazi conspirators suppressed religious publications. > On 6 November 1934, Frick, as Reich and Prussian Minister of > the Interior, issued an order forbidding until further > notice publication of all announcements in the daily press, > in pamphlets and other publications, > which dealt with the Evangelical Church; with the exception > of official announcements of the Church Government of the > Reich. (1498-PS) > > By order of the State Police for the District of Dusseldorf, > the Police Regulation which is quoted in part below was > promulgated 28 May 1934: > > "The distribution and sale of published items of any > sort in connection with worship or religious > instructions in public streets or squares near churches > is forbidden. In the same sense the distribution and > sale of published items on the oc- > > [Page 272] > > casions of processions, pilgrimages and similar church > institutions in the streets or squares they pass > through or in their vicinity is prohibited." (R-145) > > In January 1940, Bormann informed Rosenberg that he had > sought to restrict production of religious publications by > means of having their rations of printing paper cut down > through the control exercised by Reichsleiter Amann, but > that the result of these efforts remained > unsatisfactory. (101-PS) > > In March 1940, Bormann instructed Reichsleiter Amann, > Director of the NSDAP Publications Office, that in any > future redistribution of paper, confessional writings should > receive still sharper restrictions in favor of literature > politically and ideologically more valuable. He went on to > point out: > > " *** according to a report I have received, only 10 > of the over 3000 Protestant periodicals appearing in > Germany, such as Sunday papers, etc. have ceased > publication for reasons of paper saving." (089-PS) > > In April 1940, Bormann informed the High Command of the Navy > that use of the term "Divine Service" to refer exclusively > to the services arranged by Christian Confessions was no > longer to be used, even in National Socialist daily papers. > In the alternative he suggested: > > "In the opinion of the Party the term 'Church Service' > cannot be objected to. I consider it fitting since it > properly implies meetings arranged and organized by the > Churches." (068-PS) > > (f) The Nazi conspirators suppressed religious > organizations. On 28 May 1934, the State Police Office for > the District of Duesseldorf issued an order concerning > denominational youth and professional organizations which > stated in part as follows: > > "Denominational youth and professional organizations as > well as those created for special occasions only are > prohibited from every public activity outside the > church and religious sphere. > > "Especially forbidden is: Any public appearance in > groups, all sorts of political activity. Any public > sport function including public hikes and establishment > of holiday or outdoor camps. The public display or > showing of flags, banners, pennants or the open wearing > of uniforms or insignia." (R-145) > > On 20 July 1935, Frick, as Reich and Prussian Minister of > the Interior, issued secret instructions to the provincial > governments and to the Prussian Gestapo that Confessional > youth organizations were to be forbidden to wear uniforms, > or uniform- > > [Page 273] > > like clothing, to assemble publicly with pennants and flags, > to wear insignia as a substitute for uniforms, or to engage > in any outdoor sport activity. > > On 20 January 1938 the Gestapo District Office at Munich, > issued a decree which stated in part as follows: > > "The Guild of the Virgin Mary (de Marianisch > Jungfrauenkongregation) of the Bavarian dioceses, > including the diocese of Speyere, together with its > branches and associations and the Societies of Our Lady > (Jungfrauenverenen) attached to it, is by police order > to be dissolved and forbidden with immediate effect." > > Among the reasons cited for this action were the following: > > "The whole behavior of the Guild of the Virgin Mary had > therefore to be objected to from various points of > view. It could be repeatedly observed that the Guild > engaged in purely worldly affairs, such as community > games, and then in the holding of 'Social Evenings'. > > "This proves incontestably that the Guild of the Virgin > Mary was active to a very great degree in a manner > unecclesiastical and therefore worldly. By so doing it > has left the sphere of its proper religious task and > entered a sphere of activity to which it has no > statutory right. The organization has therefore to be > dissolved and forbidden." (1481-PS) > > According to the report of a Security Police "church > specialist" attached to the State Police Office at Aachen, > the following points were made by a lecturer at a conference > of Security Police and Security Service church intelligence > investigators in Berlin, on 22 September 1941: > > "Retreats, recreational organizations, etc., may now be > forbidden on ground of industrial war-needs, whereas > formerly only a worldly activity could be given as a > basis. > > "Youth camps, recreational camps are to be forbidden on > principle, church organizations in the evening may be > pre vented on grounds of the blackout regulations. > > "Processions, pilgrimages abroad are to be forbidden by > reason of the over-burdened transport conditions. For > local events too technical traffic troubles and the > danger of air attack may serve as grounds for their > prohibition. (One Referent forbade a procession, on the > grounds of it wearing out shoe leather)." (1815-PS) > > (g) The Nazi conspirators suppressed religious education. In > a speech on 7 March 1937, Rosenberg stated: > > "The education of youth can only be carried out by > those who have rescued Germany from disaster. It is > therefore > > [Page 274] > > impossible to demand one Fuehrer, one Reich and one > firmly united people as long as education is carried > out by forces which are mutually exclusive to each > other." (2351-PS) > > In a speech at Fulda, 27 November 1937 Reich Minister for > Church Affairs Hans Kerrl stated: > > "We cannot recognize that the Church has a right to > insure that the individual should be educated in all > respects in the way in which it holds to be right; but > we must leave it to the National Socialist State to > educate the child in the way it regards as right." (252- > PS) > > In January 1939, Bormann, acting as Deputy of the Fuehrer, > informed the Minister of Education, that the Party was > taking the position that theological inquiry was not as > valuable as the general fields of knowledge in the > universities and that suppression of Theological Faculties > in the universities was to be undertaken at once. He pointed > out that the Concordat with the Vatican placed certain > limitations on such a program, but that in the light of the > general change of > circumstances, particularly the compulsory military service > and the execution of the four-year plan, the question of > manpower made certain reorganizations, economies and > simplification necessary. Therefore, Theological Faculties > were to be restricted insofar as they could not > be wholly suppressed. He instructed that the churches were > not to be informed of this development and no public > announcement was to be made. Any complaints, if they were to > be replied to at all, should be answered with a statement > that these measures are being executed in a general plan of > reorganization and that similar things are happening to > other faculties. He concludes with the statement that the > professorial chairs vacated by the above program are to be > turned over to the newly created fields of inquiry, such as > Racial Research. (116-PS) > > A plan for the reduction of Theological Faculties was > submitted by the Reich Minister for Science, Education and > Training in April 1939 to Bormann, who forwarded it to > Rosenberg for consideration and action. The plan called for > shifting, combining and eliminating Theological > Faculties in various schools and universities throughout the > Reich, with the following results: > > "To recapitulate this plan would include the complete > closing of Theological Faculties at Innsbruck, Salzburg > and Munich, the transfer of the faculty of Graz to > Vienna and the vanishing of four Catholic faculties. > > "a. Closing of three Catholic Theological Faculties or > Higher Schools and of four Evangelic Faculties in the > winter semester 1939/40. > > [Page 275] > > "b. Closing of one further Catholic and of three- > further Evangelic Faculties in the near future." (122- > PS) > > In a secret decree of the Party Chancellery, signed by > Bormann, and distributed to all Gauleiters on 7 June 1941, > the following statement concerning religious education was > made: > > "No human being would know anything of Christianity if > it had not been drilled into him in his childhood by > pastors. The so-called dear God in no wise gives > knowledge of his existence to young people in advance, > but in an astonishing manner in spite of his > omnipotence leaves this to the efforts of the pastors. > If therefore in the future our youth learns nothing > more of this Christianity, whose doctrines are far > below ours, Christianity will disappear by itself." (D- > 75) > > (2) Supplementary evidence of acts of oppression within > Germany. In laying the groundwork for their attempted > subversion of the Church, the Nazi conspirators resorted to > assurances of peaceful intentions. Thus Hitler, in his > address to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933 declared: > > "While the government is determined to carry through > the political and moral purging of our public life, it > is creating and insuring prerequisites for a truly > religious life. The government sees in both Christian > confessions the factors most important for the > maintenance of our Folkdom. It will respect agreements > concluded between them and the states. However, it > expects that its work will meet with a similar > appreciation. The government will treat all other > denominations with equal objective justice. However, it > can never condone that belonging to a certain > denomination or to a certain race might be regarded as > a license to commit or tolerate crimes. The Government > will devote its > care to the sincere living together of Church and > State." (3387-PS) > > (a) Against the Evangelical Churches. The Nazi conspirators, > upon their accession to power, passed a number of laws, > under innocent-sounding titles, designed to reduce the > Evangelical Churches to the status of an obedient instrument > of Nazi policy. The following are illustrative: > > [Page 276] > > Document Number Date Reichsgesetzblatt Title and Gist of Law > Page > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > 3433-PS 14.7.33 I.471 > > Gesetz ueher die > Verfassun der Deutschen > Evanelischen Kirche (Law > concerning the > Constitution of the > German Evangelical > Church), establishing > among other things the > new post of Reich Bishop. > [Signed by] Hitler, > Frick. > > 3434-PS 26.6.35 I.774 > > Gesetz ueer das > BesGhlussverfahren in > Rechtsaneleenheite der > Evanelisschen Kirche (Law > concerning procedure for > decisions in legal > affairs of the > Evangelical Church), > giving the Reich Ministry > of the Interior sole > authority to determine > the validity of measures > taken in the Churches > since 1 May 1933, when > raised in a civil > lawsuit. [Signed by] > Hitler, Frick. > > 3435-PS 3.7.35 I.851 > > Erste Verordnung zur > Durchfuehrung des > Gesetzes ueber das > Reschluss-verfahren in > Rechtsanelegenheiten der > Evanelischen Kirche > (First Ordinance for > Execution of the Law > concerning procedure for > decisions in legal > affairs of the > Evangelical Church), > setting up detailed > organization and > procedures under the law > of 21 June 1935. [Signed > by] Frick. > > 3466-PS 16.7.35 I.1029 > > Erlass ueber die Zusammen > fassung der > Zustaendiykeiten des > Reichs und Preussens in > Kirchenaneleenheiten > (Decree to unite the > competences of Reich and > Prussia in Church > affairs) transferring to > Kerrl, Minister without > Portfolio, the church > affairs previously > handled by Reich and > Prussian Ministers of the > Interior and of Science, > Education, and Training. > [Signed by] Hitler, Rust, > Koerner. > > [Page 277] > > > 3436-PS 24.9.35 I.1178 > > Gesetz zur Sicherun der > Deutschen Evangelischen > Kirche (Law for the > Safeguarding of the > German Evangelical > Church) empowering the > Reich Minister of Church > Affairs (Kerrl) to issue > Ordinances with binding > legal force. [Signed by] > Hitler, Frick. > > 3437-PS 2.12.35 I.1370 > > Fuenfte Verordnung Zur > Durchfuehrun des Gesetzes > zur Siherun der Deutschen > Evanelischen Kirche > (Fifth decree for > execution of the law for > the Safeguarding of the > German Evangelical > Church) prohibiting the > churches from filling > their pastorates, > ordaining ministers, > visitation, publishing of > banns, and collecting > dues and assessments. > [Signed by] Kerrl. > > 3439-PS 25.6.37 I.697 > > Fuenfzehnte Verordnun zur > Durchfuehrun des Gesetzes > zur Sicherung der > Deutschen Evanyelischen > Kirche (Fifteenth decree > for the Execution of the > Law for Security of the > German Evangelical > Church) establishing in > the Reich Ministry for > Church Affairs a Finance > Department, to supervise > administration of the > church property budget, > tax assessment, and use > of budget funds. [Signed > by] Kerrl. > > With the help of their Reich Bishop, Bishop Mueller, they > maneuvered the Evangelical Youth Association into the Hitler > Jugend under Von Schirach in December 1933. (1458-PS) > > They arrested prominent Protestant leaders such as Pastor > > [Page 278] > > Niemoeller. By 1937, the result of all these measures was > complete administrative control by the Nazi conspirators > over the Evangelical churches. > > (b) Against the Catholic Church. Just as in their program > against the Evangelical Churches, so in their attack on the > Catholic Church, the Nazi conspirators concealed their real > intentions under a cloak of apparent respect for its rights > and protection of its activities. On 20 July 1933, a > Concordat was concluded between the Holy See and the German > Reich, signed for the Reich by Von Papen (280-A-PS). It was > the Nazi Government, not the Church, which initiated the > negotiations. > > "The German Government asked the Holy See to conclude a > Concordat with the Reich." (268-PS) > > By Article I of the Concordat, > > "The German Reich guarantees freedom of profession and > public practice of the Catholic religion. > > "It acknowledges the right of the Catholic Church, > within the limit of those laws which are applicable to > all, to manage and regulate her own affairs > independently, and, within the framework of her own > competence, to publish laws and ordinances binding on > her members." (3280-A-PS) > > Other articles formulated agreements on basic principles > such as free communication between Rome and the local > ecclesiastical authorities, freedom of the Catholic press, > of Catholic education and of Catholic action in charitable, > professional, and youth organizations. In return, > the Vatican pledged loyalty by the clergy to the Reich > Government and emphasis in religious instruction on the > patriotic duties of the Christian citizen. (3280-A-PS) > > In reliance upon assurances by the Nazi conspirators, the > Catholic hierarchy had already revoked their previous > prohibition against Catholics becoming members of the Nazi > Party (389 PS). The Catholic Center Party, under a > combination of Nazi pressure and assurances, > published on 29 December 1933, an announcement of its > dissolution (2403-PS). Thus the Catholics went a long way to > disarm themselves and cooperate with the Nazis. > Nevertheless, the Nazi conspirators continued to develop > their policy of slow strangulation of religion, first in > covert, and then in open, violation of their assurances and > agreements. > > In the Encyclical "Mt Brenneder Sorge", on 14 March 1937, Pope > Pius XI described the program: > > "It discloses intrigues which from the beginning had no > other aim than a war of extermination. In the furrows > in which we had labored to sow the seeds of true peace, > others like the enemy in Holy Scripture (Matt. xiii, > 25) sowed > > [Page 279] > > the tares of suspicion, discord, hatred, calumny of > secret and open fundamental hostility to Christ and His > Church, fed from a thousand different sources and > making use of every available means. On them and on > them alone and on their silent and vocal protectors > rests the responsibility that now on the horizon of > Germany there is to be seen not the rainbow of peace > but the threatening storm clouds of destructive > religious wars. *** Anyone who has any sense of truth > left in his mind and even a shadow of the feeling of > justice left in his heart will have to admit that, in > the difficult and eventful years which followed the > Concordat, every word and every action of Ours was > ruled by loyalty to the terms of the agreement; but > also he will have to recognize with surprise and deep > disgust that the unwritten law of the other party has > been arbitrary misinterpretation of agreements, evasion > of agreements, evacuation of the meaning of agreements, > and > finally more or less open violation of agreements." > (3280-PS) > > The Nazis suppressed the Catholic Youth League, beginning > ten days after the concordat was signed. (See Section 8, > infra.) > > On 18 January 1942, in declining to accede to a demand made > by the German Government that no further appointment of > Archbishops, Bishops, and other high administrative > dignitaries be made in the new territories of the Reich, or > of certain of them within the old Reich, without previous > consultation with the German Government (3261-PS), the > Secretary of State of Pope Pius XII pointed to measures > taken by the German Government, > > "Contrary not only to the existing Concordats and to > the principles of international law ratified by the > Second Hague conference, but oftenand this is much more > graveto the very fundamental principles of divine law, > both natural and positive." > > The Papal Secretary of State continued: > > "Let it suffice to recall in this connection, among > other things, the changing of the Catholic State > elementary schools into undenominational schools; the > permanent or temporary closing of many minor > seminaries, of not a few major seminaries and of some > theological faculties; the suppression of almost all > the private schools and of numerous Catholic boarding > schools and colleges; the repudiation, decided > unilaterally, of financial obligations which the State, > Municipalities etc. had towards the Church; the > increasing difficulties put in the way of the activity > of the religious Orders and Congregations in the > spiritual, cultural and social field > > [Page 280] > > and above all the suppression of Abbeys, monasteries, > convents and religious houses in such great numbers > that one is led to infer a deliberate intention of > rendering impossible the very existence of the Orders > and Congregations in Germany. > > "Similar and even graver acts must be deplored in the > annexed and occupied territories, especially in the > Polish territories and particularly in the Reichsgau > Wartheland, for which the Reich Superintendent - has > issued, under date of September 13th last, a > 'Decree concerning Religious Associations and Religious > Societies' (Verordnung uber eligioese Vereinigngen und > Religion-gesellschaften) in clear opposition to the > fundamental principles of the divine constitution of > the Church." (3261-PS) > > Illustrative of the numerous other cases and specific > incidents which might be adduced as the program of > suppression was carried into action within Germany proper, > are the measures adopted beginning in 1936 to eliminate the > priest Rupert Mayer of Munich. Because of his sermons, he > was confined in various prisons, arrested and rearrested, > interned in Oranienburg-Sachsenhausen concentration camp, > and the Ettal Monastery, from which he was released by > Allied troops in May 1945, and later died. '(372-PS) > > (c) Against other religious groups. > > Members of the sect known as "BibelJorscher"meaning "Members > of a Biblical Society" or "Bible-Researchers"were as early > as 1937 sent as a routine matter to concentration camps by > the Gestapo, even after serving of a sentence imposed by a > court or.after the cancellation of > an arrest order (D-84). At one camp aloneDachauthere were > over 150 "Bibelforscher" in protective custody in 1937. > (2928-PS) > > B. Acts of suppression of the Christian Churches in Annexed > an Occupied Territories. > > (1) In Austria. The methods of suppression of churches > followed in Austria by the occupying power began with > measures to exclude the Church from public activities, such > as processions, printing of newspapers and Reviews which > could spread Christian doctrines; from forming Youth > organizations, such as Boy Scouts; from directing > educational or charitable activities; and even from > extending help in the form of food to foreigners. Unable in > conscience to obey the public > prescription, ministers of religions were arrested and sent > to concentration camps, and some were executed. Churches > were closed, convents and mon- > > [Page 281] > > asteries suppressed, and educational property confiscated. > The total number of confiscations, suppressions, or > alienations of religious institutions exceeded 100 cases in > one diocese alone. (3278-PS) > > The Lutheran Church in Austria, though comprising a small > minority of the population, was subjected to organized > oppression. Its educational efforts were obstructed or > banned. Believers were encouraged, and sometimes > intimidated, to repudiate their faith. Lutheran pastors were > given to understand that a government position would be > awarded to each one who would renounce his ministry and if > possible withdraw from the Lutheran Church. (3273-PS) > > Tn summation of the period of Nazi domination and in review > of the attempted suppression of the Christian Church, the > Archbishops and Bishops of Austria in their first joint > Pastoral after liberation declared: > > "At an end also is an intellectual battle, the goal of > which was the destruction of Christianity and the > Church among our people; a campaign of lies and > treachery against truth and love, against divine and > human rights and against international law." (3274-PS) > > (2) In Czechoslovakia. The Czechoslovak Official Report for > the prosecution and trial of the German Major War Criminals > by the International Military Tribunal established according > to the Agreement of the Four Great Powers of 8 August 1945 > describes in summary form the measures taken by the Nazi > conspirators to suppress religious liberties and persecute > the churches. The following excerpts are quoted from this > report (998-PS): > > "(a) Catholic Church. > > "*** At the outbreak of war, 487 Catholic priests > were among the thousands of Czech patriots arrested and > sent to concentration camps as hostages. Venerable high > ecclesiastical dignitaries were dragged to > concentration camps in Germany. *** Religious orders > were dissolved and liquidated, their charitable > institutions closed down and their members expelled or > else forced to compulsory labor in Germany. All > religious instruction in Czech schools was suppressed. > Most of the weeklies and monthlies which the Catholics > had published in Czechoslovakia, had been suppressed > from the very beginning of the occupation. The Catholic > gymnastic organization "Orel" with 800,000 > members was dissolved and its Property was confiscated. > To a > > [Page 282] > > great extent Catholic church property was seized for > the benefit of the Reich. > > "(b) Czechoslovak National Church. > > "*** The Czechoslovak Church in Slovakia was entirely > prohibited and its property confiscated under German > compulsion in 1940. It has been allowed to exist in > Bohemia and Moravia but in a crippled form under the > name of the Czecho-Moravian Church. > > "(c) Protestant Churches. > > "The Protestant Churches were deprived of the freedom > to preach the gospel. German secret state police > watched closely whether the clergy observed the > restrictions imposed on it. *** Some passages from > the Bible were not allowed to be read in public at all. > *** > > "* * Church leaders were especially persecuted, scores > of ministers were imprisoned in concentration camps, > among them the General Secretary of the Students' > Christian Movement in Czechoslovakia. One of the Vice- > Presidents was executed. > > "Protestant Institutions such as the YMCA and YWCA were > suppressed throughout the country. > > "The leading Theological School for all Evangelical > denominations, HUS Faculty in Prague and all other > Protestant training schools for the ministry were > closed down in November 1939, with the other Czech > universities and colleges. > > "(d) Czech Orthodox Church. > > "The hardest blow was directed against the Czech > Orthodox Church. The Orthodox churches in > Czechoslovakia were ordered by the Berlin Ministry of > Church Affairs to leave the Pontificate of Belgrade and > Constantinople respectively and to become subordinate > to the Berlin Bishop. The Czech Bishop Gorazd was > executed together with two other priests of the > Orthodox Church. By a special order of the Protector > Daluege, issued in September 1942, the Orthodox Church > of Serbian Constantinople jurisdiction was completely > dissolved in the Czech lands, its religious activity > forbidden and its property > > "All Evangelical education was handed over to the civil > authorities and many Evangelical teachers lost their > employment; moreover the State grant to salaries of > many evangelical priests was taken away." (998-PS) > > (3) In Poland. The repressive measures levelled against the > Christian Church in Poland where Hans Frank was Governor- > > [Page 283] > > General from 1939 to 1945, were even more drastic and > sweeping. In protest against the > systematic strangulation of religion, the Vatican, on 8 > October 1942, addressed a memorandum to the German Embassy > accredited to the Holy See in which the Secretariat of State > emphasized the fact that despite previous protests to the > Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Reich, von > Ribbentrop, the religious condition of the Catholics in the > Warthegau "has become even sadder and more tragic." This > memorandum states: > > "For quite a long time the religious situation in the > Warthegau gives cause for very grave and ever > increasing anxiety. There, in fact, the Episcopate has > been little by little almost completely eliminated; the > secular and regular clergy have been reduced to > proportions that are absolutely inadequate, because > they have been in large part deported and exiled; the > education of clerics has been forbidden; the Catholic > education of youth is meeting with the greatest > opposition; the nuns have been dispersed; > insurmountable obstacles have been put in the way of > affording people the helps of religions; very many > churches have been closed; Catholic intellectual and > charitable institutions have been destroyed; > ecclesiastical property has been seized." (3263-PS) > > On 18 November 1942 the Papal Secretary of State requested > the Archbishop of Breslau, Cardinal Bertram, to use every > effort to assist Polish Catholic workers transferred to > Germany, who were being deprived of the consolations of > religion. In addition, he again appealed for help for the > Polish priests detained in various concentration camps, > whose death rate was "still on the increase." (3265-PS). On > 7 December 1942 the Cardinal Archbishop of Breslau replied > that all possible efforts were being put forward by the > German Bishops without success on behalf of the victims of > concentration camps and labor battalions, and deplored "the > intolerable decrees" against religious ministration to > Poles. (3266-PS) > > On 2 March 1943, the Cardinal Secretary of State addressed a > note to von Ribbentrop, Reichsminister for Foreign Affairs, > in which the violations of religious rights and conscience > among the civilian population of Poland were set out in > detail, and the time, locality, and character of the > persecutions were specified. Priests and Ecclesiastics were > still being arrested, thrust into concentration camps, and > treated with scorn and derision, while many had been > summarily executed. Religious instruction was hampered; > Catholic schools were closed; the use of the Polish lan- > > [Page 284] > > guage in sacred functions and even in the Sacrament of > Penance was forbidden. Even the natural right of marriage > was denied to men of Polish nationality under 28 years of > age to women under 25. In the territory called "General > Government" similar conditions existed and against these the > Holy See vigorously protested. To save the harassed and > persecuted leaders of the Catholic Church, the Vatican had > petitioned that they be allowed to emigrate to neutral > countries of Europe or America. The only concession made was > that they would all be collected in one concentration camp > Dachau. (3264-PS) > > The Nazi conspirators adopted a dilatory and obstructionist > policy toward complaints as to religious affairs in the > overrun territories, and a decision was "taken by those > competent to do so. *** that no further consideration will > be taken of proposals or requests concerning the territories > which do not belong to the Old Reich." (3262-PS) > > "Those competent" to make decisions on complaints as to > religious affairs in the overrun territories -- especially > the Party Chancery, headed by Bormann -- the methods they > used, and the reasons for their attitude are outlined by the > Cardinal Archbishop of Breslau, a German > living in Germany, in a letter to the Papal Secretary of > State on 7 December 1942 as follows: > > "Your Eminence knows very well the greatest difficulty > in the way of opening negotiations comes from the > overruling authority which the "National Socialist > Party Chancery" (Kanzlei der Nazion-sozstschen Parez, > known as the Partei-Kanzlei) exercises in relation to > the Chancery of the Reich (Reichskanzlei) and to the > single Reich Ministries. This 'Parteikanzlei' directs > the course to be followed by the State, whereas the > Ministries and the Chancery of the Reich are obliged > and compelled to adjust their decrees to these > directions. Besides, there is the fact that the > "Supreme Office for the Security of the Reich" called > the 'Reichsscherheitshauptamt' enjoys an authority > which precludes all legal action and all appeals. Under > it are the 'Secret Offices for Public Security' called > 'Geheime Staatspolizei' (a title shortened usually to > Gestapo) of which there is one for each Province. > Against the decrees of this Central Office > (Reichsscherheitshauptamt) and of the Secret Offices > (Geheime Staatspolizei) there is no appeal through the > Courts, and no complaint made to the Ministries has any > effect. Not infrequently the Councillors of the > Ministries suggest that they have not been able to do > as they would wish to, because of the opposition of > these Party offices. As far as the executive > > [Page 285] > > power is concerned, the organization called the SS, > that is Schutzstaffeln der Partei, is in practice > supreme. > > "This hastily sketched interrelation of authorities is > the reason why many of the petitions and protests made > by the Bishops to the Ministries have been foiled. Even > if we present our complaints to the so-called Supreme > Security Office, there is rarely any reply; and when > there is, it is negative. > > "On a number of very grave and fundamental issues we > have also presented our complaints to the Supreme > Leader of the Reich (Fuehrer). Either no answer is > given, or it is apparently edited by the above- > mentioned Party Chancery, which does not consider > itself bound by the Concordat made with the Holy See." > (3266-PS) > > The interchange of correspondence following the transmission > of the above-described note of 2 March 1943 on the religious > situation in the overrun Polish Provinces illustrates the > same evasive tactics. (3269-PS) > > In his Allocution to the Sacred College, on 2 June 1945, His > Holiness Pope Pius XII recalled, byway of example, "some > details from the abundant accounts which have reached us > from priests and laymen who were interned in the > concentration camp at Dachau": > > "In the forefront, for the number and harshness of the > treatment meted out to them, are the Polish priests. > From 1940 to 1945, 2,800 Polish ecclesiastics and > religious were imprisoned in that camp; among them was > the Auxiliary bishop of Wloclawek, who died there of > typhus. In April last there were left only 816, all the > others being dead except > for two or three transferred to another camp. In the > summer of 1942, 480 German-speaking ministers of > religion were known to be gathered there; of these, 45 > were Protestants, all the others Catholic priests. In > spite of the continuous inflow of new internees, > especially from some dioceses of Bavaria, Rhenania and > Westphalia, their number, as a result of the high rate > of mortality, at the beginning of this year, did not > surpass 350. Nor should we pass over in silence these > belonging to occupied territories, Holland, Belgium, > France (among whom the Bishop of Clermont), Luxembourg, > Slovenia, Italy. Many of those priests and laymen > endured indescribable sufferings for their faith and > for their vocation. In one case the hatred of the > impious against Christ > reached the point of parodying on the person of an > > [Page 286] > > interned priest, with barbed wire, the scourging and > the crowning with thorns of our > Redeemer." (3268-PS) > > Further revealing figure on the persecution of Polish > priests are contained in the following extract from Charge > No. 17 against Hans Frank, Governor-General of Poland, > submitted by the Polish Government, entitled "Maltreatment > and Persecution of the Catholic Clergy in the Western > Provinces": > > "IV. GENERAL CONDITIONS AND RESULTS OF THE PERSECUTION > > 11. The general situation of the clergy in the > Archdiocese of Poznan in the beginning of April 1940 is > summarized in the following words of Cardinal Hlond's > second report: > > 5 priests shot > > 27 priests confined in harsh concentration camps at > Stutthof and in other camps > > 190 priests in prison or in concentration camps at > Bruczkow, Chludowo, Goruszki, Kazimierz, Biskupi, Lad, > Lubin and Puszczykowo, > > 35 priests expelled into the Government General, > > 11 priests seriously ill in consequence of ill- > treatment, > > 122 parishes entirely left without priests.' > > 12. In the diocese of Chefmno,. where about 650 priests > were installed before the war only 30 were allowed to > stay, the 97% of them were imprisoned, executed or put > into concentration camps. > > 13. By January 141 about 7000 priests were killed, 3000 > were in prison or concentration camps." (3279-PS) > > The Allocution of Pope Pius XII on 2 June 1945 described > National Socialism as "the arrogant apostasy from Jesus > Christ, the denial of His doctrine and of His work of > redemption, the cult of violence, the idolatry of race and > blood, the overthrow of human liberty and dignity." It > summarized the attacks of "National Socialism" on the > Catholic Church in these terms: > > "The struggle against the Church did, in fact, become > even more bitter: there was the dissolution of Catholic > organizations; the gradual suppression of the > flourishing Catholic schools,-both public and private; > the enforced weaning of youth from family and Church; > the pressure brought to bear on the conscience of > citizens, and especially of civil servants; the > systematic defamation, by means of a clever, closely > organized propaganda, of the Church, the clergy, the > faithful, the Church's institutions, teaching and > history; the closing, dissolution, confiscation of > religious houses and other ecclesiastical institutions; > the complete suppression of the Catholic press and > publishing houses." (3268-PS) > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:01 EDT 1999 Article: 142175 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:45:55 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <3810A2D3.E5A3B116@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> <000b8d9b.93d8fa3b@usw-ex0101-001.remarq.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688595 soc.culture.polish:191580 soc.culture.ukrainian:59503 soc.culture.german:142175 soc.culture.russian:159177 Mr Hubert is correct about the genesis of the salaried clergymen in Germany. But he and other holocaustians forget that the Adolf, once given dictatorial powers he could easily stop such payments by the fiat of his word, as he has done it and away with political parties in 1934 in the III Reich. He had not done it because while he was an apointed (rather then elected) dictator, despite dictatorial powers on an important matters he ruled by the will of the people i.e. referendums. Moreover, one has to ponder and can never be sure if he would continue to rule once the plain Germans did not gave him the about 90% vote of confidence. Knowing his ego, I think he would probably resign. Polina B. RockyMtnCougar wrote: > In article <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>, Juergen Hubert > wrote: > > polin wrote: > > > > And, while even during the war Hitler was paying clergy's > > salaries, > > > Roosevelt and Churchill have never done it in the peace time. > > The fact that the German state continued to pay salaries to > > clergymen > > AFAIK wasn't instituted by Hitler (and I doubt he would have done > > that) > > - that dates back to the German Empire, when the government > > nationalized > > all church lands, but agreed to reimburse the churches through > > regular > > payments. > > - Juergen Hubert > > He also conveniently forgets that little slip of parchment called The > Constitution, the First Ammendment of which makes clear that neither > Roosevelt nor ANY other President of the United states will pay clergy > (exceptions for military clerics who serve our soldiers being a notable > exception). > > To fault Roosevelt for not paying Father Coughlin or any other civilian > clergy person is ludicrous. Of course, most of what rolly-polly posts > is. > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:01 EDT 1999 Article: 142178 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt,revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:54:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3810A4E7.F88F3694@catskill.net> References: <381006D5.1E297F07@catskill.net> <19991022105905.02586.00000386@ng-bh1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191583 alt:7146 soc.culture.jewish:417464 soc.culture.german:142178 Dear Mrs Poniecka, You did not respond nor substantiated my questions: 1) Is the 50% death rate of Polish priests at Dachau authentic, considering that out of 315 members of the generally elderly academia of the Jagiellonian University about 285 survived near six years of imprisonment? 2) Did Nazis selectively murdered Polish priests at Dachau while did not murder priests of other nationalities 3 ) Did Polish priests died due to privations or epidemics 4) Why Pius XII did not protest about the atrocious rate of the death of Polish priests. In 1939 he was extremely supportive of conquered Poland. 5) why the record states that so many Polish priest and clergymen died (about 800) Polina Borowska PONIECKA wrote: > >the atrocious death rate of the > >Polish priests at Dachau > > The names of 108 Polish martyrs of WWII can be found at this site: > > http://www.ipipan.waw.pl/~klopotek/church/rcc_in_p.htm#Saints > > Overwhelmingly, they are priests. But how to explain Christians killing > Christians, and the barbaric measures taken against the clergy of the same > religion, different nationality? > > PONIECKA From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:02 EDT 1999 Article: 142195 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:47:31 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 95 Message-ID: <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688621 soc.culture.polish:191603 soc.culture.ukrainian:59519 soc.culture.russian:159200 soc.culture.jewish:417494 soc.culture.german:142195 Dear Daniel, 1) Please do not be more Catholic than the Pope! ... Do not be more Holocaustian than USMM and Ken Mc Vay who complained to me that he could not get complete Belzec Report. Snipetts available contradict the history of the Belzec camp of the last few decades that all corpses were cremated and indicate that pedantic Germans were careless at covering traces of their "crime" i.e. industrial murder of the Lemberg (Lwow, Lviv) Jews. What you describe as huge seems to me as an usual cemetery serving Nazi concentration camp. There were about 50 mass graves for about 10,000 corpses at the Treblinka I for the Poles. And we do not raise the roocous for that burial field or claim extermination on such basis. 2) I am astonished that you are an exegetic of the WW II Holocaust but you do not proseletise. I thought you will be happy that I would return to the Faith for any hard evidence reason, like the Saint Thomas. It seems that both the Judaism and Holocaustianism are two not proseltizing religions. 3) You claim that you saw Hydrokop Report. I am again astonished. Directors of the Musemum Krystyna Oleksy and mrg. Wroblewski several times in writting refused access of the Polish HIstorical Society of Stamford CT to this most important document of the Holocaust. Are you fluent in Polish or they showed you autheniticated translation in English. Or they just showed you a few drawings and the Polish text?? If not translated I am ready to do it. Lets get togrether on that project, jointly I former Holocaustian and you an active exegete. 5) I thought I will not succeed in prompting you into mentioning bloating, so last evening posted about this phenomenon. But belatedly you fell in my trap and mentioned the bloating today. I agree that in warm temperature cadavers bloat ... due to bacterial putrefaction. But in order for Eli Wiesel in Kyiv or Adolf Eichman in Lviv to see geysers of blood the gasses would have to be released simultaneously, I am sure you will agree. A malicious person might suggest that the dead bloated Jews had to burp in unison in order to produce Eichmannesque geysers. And why Jewish corpses burp in unison while Slavic do not??? Leaving gruesome jokes on the side the phenomenon of bloating of cxarcasses observed every summer on American highways, is a prove that not only blood but even the putrefaction gasses can not leave the corpse throught its intugemen. I repeat: the human skin is so tight that after death will not release the internal gasses ergo does not release fluids i.e. blood. Thus the geysers of blood even in summer are total Holocaustian fiction and one of many martyrological confabulations. Thus exterminationist and revisionists agreed on little point of bloating and dealt deadly blow to the blow-outs of geysers. Polina Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > polin wrote: > > ## Have you heard about the recent excavations in Belzec, "Polina"? > > # Even Ken Mc Vey could not obtain complete report just meaningless snippets. > > He seems to have quite a lot of material posted on his site, which > clearly indicates a huge amount of human remains in Belzec. The name > is McVay, BTW. > > # If it will show industrial murder of Jews I will instantly become one of you > # again. > > Oh, please don't become one of us. Please. > > # Did you hear about the 1966, 33 years old massive Hydrokop Report on Birkenau > > Saw it, actually. > > # PS I am astonished that you might for a second believe in the geysers. > > Let's start with a simple one. Do you agree, that when tens-of-thousands > of corpses are buried in one place, this will cause a lot of gases to be > released, due to the putrefication process? > > Have you heard, or read, descriptions about how corpses left on the > battlefield bloat? > > -Danny Keren. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:02 EDT 1999 Article: 142275 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.idt.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Why some Polish priests were dying at Dachau while others were drawing salaries?? >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:20:51 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3810FF63.2B952B1E@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> <000b8d9b.93d8fa3b@usw-ex0101-001.remarq.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688670 soc.culture.polish:191635 soc.culture.ukrainian:59529 soc.culture.german:142275 soc.culture.russian:159245 Goodevening, Below, by inapproprietly accusing me of blaming Roosevelt, Rocky deflects the dillemma of many Polish priests dying at Dachau others were drawing salaries >from the Nazis. Instead in a bigoted way zeroing on Roosevelt, [T]Rocky should zero in on predominantly Jewish NKVD and the Communists who destroyed not only priests and churches but faithful and religions (e.g. Judaism and Ukrainian Uniate Catholic Church) while suppressing all others. Polina I did not bl RockyMtnCougar wrote: > In article <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de>, Juergen Hubert > wrote: > > polin wrote: > > > > And, while even during the war Hitler was paying clergy's > > salaries, > > > Roosevelt and Churchill have never done it in the peace time. > > The fact that the German state continued to pay salaries to > > clergymen > > AFAIK wasn't instituted by Hitler (and I doubt he would have done > > that) > > - that dates back to the German Empire, when the government > > nationalized > > all church lands, but agreed to reimburse the churches through > > regular > > payments. > > - Juergen Hubert > > He also conveniently forgets that little slip of parchment called The > Constitution, the First Ammendment of which makes clear that neither > Roosevelt nor ANY other President of the United states will pay clergy > (exceptions for military clerics who serve our soldiers being a notable > exception). > > To fault Roosevelt for not paying Father Coughlin or any other civilian > clergy person is ludicrous. Of course, most of what rolly-polly posts > is. > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:03 EDT 1999 Article: 142442 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:52:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 114 Message-ID: <38128264.A1B983DE@catskill.net> References: <3810A4E7.F88F3694@catskill.net> <19991022154209.29196.00000024@ng-fa1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191755 alt.revisionism:688897 soc.culture.german:142442 PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > >You did not respond nor substantiated my questions > > It is not my intention to answer or substantiate your questions. > > The website of WWII Polish Catholic martyrs was brought up in another forum, > and I posted it as more detailed information. In dealing with numbers, we > forget the names of real people. > > Actually, I was more interested in tracing your post to the newsgroup > alt.revisionism, where the thread originated as "Priests Murdered in Dachau > Concentration Camp." > > If you are truly interested in resolving your questions, why don't you research > the Internet yourself? I wish I could. About Auschwitz alone, there were 9883 different titles of books published by June 1996, (when I asked for the printout) and catalogued by about 23,000 libraries sharing information with the OCLC. Probably similar sea of information is about Dachau and searching bibliography alone would take a few weeks. Informational overkill is probably even greater on the Internet on these subject. For this reason I asked for help and to repeat my questions - Why Polish priests died more frequently than non-Polish priests at Dachau - Why 80% of Polish priests were NOT imprisoned by the Nazis and safely drew salaries and printed their religious materials on cellulose (paper), the strategic and rationed war material. - Why 50% of Polish priests survived for six years in the Nazi Death camps? Did Hitler in 1942 run out of Zyclon B or carbon monoxide? Carbon monoxide could be created by incomplete combustion of straw filled materaces on which the priests slept in the camps. Eventually, by early 1945 Hitler run out of insecticide Zyclon B when its factories were randomly destroyed by American bombers, what resulted in an appalling death rate at the concentration camps repetitiously shown by our media when the British bulldozer plows into mass graves heaps of cahectic bodies (due to constant diarrhea >from typhus and dysentery but not from starvation. > For starters, there are several links to information > about Dachau at this site: > > http://members.aol.com/AACTchrNet/page5.html#Dach > > I also heartily recommend the book by Msgr. Stanislaw Grabowski, "Follow Me: > The Memoirs of a Polish Priest." An excerpt from the book summary: > > "Born to an impoverish peasant family in Russian-controlled Poland in 1911, > Stanislaw Grabowski was ordained to the priesthood in 1938. At the outbreak of > World War II he was serving a diocese in western Poland. In October 1939, he > was arrested as part of an ethnic cleansing operation in the areas of Poland > directly annexed by the Reich. > > For the next five and a half years Fr. Grabowski was a prisoner in Nazi camps. SURVIVING FOR FIVE AND AN HALF YEARS AT THE DEATH CAMP??? > > Most of that time was spent in the "priests' barracks" in Dachau. After > liberation, he came to the United States where he wrote one of the first > accounts of the Holocaust in Polish outside of Poland. He served in parishes on > the east coast, South Dakota, and Minnesota and passed away in 1993. WORKED AND LIVED TO A SOUND 82 YEARS AFTER PRIVATIONS AND PERSECUTIONS OF THE DEATH CAMP??? It seems that the Dachau perhaps gave him a sort of immuninty or at least lease on longevity! One would expect that after the horrors of the camps liberated inmates should pass away in a few months after their release, would you not agree?? My relatives and acquaintances who survived Siberian camps usually returned toothless and prematurely aged and died within years after their release in late 1950s. And they were so ininated (worn out, nearly dead) that none of them was able to create any writting. Did you noticed Mrs Poniecka that perhaps one of eight Auschwitz survivors (there were about 60,000 of them) published a book or a memoir. Did you also notice Mrs Poniecka that there is a virtual absence of memoirs of Siberia survivors? Not that I believe in survivors or refugees stories. I do not regardless they are Jews, Poles Germans or Albanians. A huge, front page stories were created in our press about 700 KOSOVARS massacred by Serbs and burried in an abandoned mineshaft. About a week ago on back page of the NYT and other papers you could find that invetigators of the Hague Tribunal for weeks excavated this mineshaft and found nothing, NOT EVEN ONE CORPSE OR SKELETON! And the death of the 700 Kosovar martyrs was established on the authority of testimonies of divergent Albanian refugees on the premise that all of them were c o n s i s t e n t l y relating this martyrological story. Without reading Rev Grabowski memoir I classify it as such a confabulatory martyrological story. I have red hundreds of them and cried many times reading it until one time I started to reflect on their i n t e r n a l inconsitencies and became a historical revisionist. From then on, I am looking for a hard, physical evidence of martyrology and genesis of alleged facts. Thus my question Why only 50% Polish priests died and Why some of them were imprisoned while others not. Was Hitler bent of extermination of 50% of imprisoned priests only??? > > > "Follow Me" tells the story of a remarkable and danger-filled life. It is one > on the first books ever to tell the story of Polish priests imprisoned by the > Nazis during World War II. Over a fifth of Poland's Catholic clergy was killed > during the war, and many religious were imprisoned or tortured." > > PONIECKA From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:03 EDT 1999 Article: 142453 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:25:45 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 64 Message-ID: <38129858.77CF2DB5@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688910 soc.culture.polish:191760 soc.culture.ukrainian:59590 soc.culture.german:142453 soc.culture.russian:159480 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr Mc Vay, > > > In the "[present] era of revisionism" (term in editorial in Martyrs and > > Resistance Dec. 1996) > > There is no such "era." The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the > lunatic fringe. For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not revisionists. > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > during Nuremberg trials? > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness > whose testimony was "extorted" The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book that he was tortured. > or a signle document named in the analysis > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic. The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was expression of ethnic but not religeous war. Polina thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka [II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric smelly but not secret or 'exterminationist' establishment > > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:03 EDT 1999 Article: 142454 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:26:29 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 64 Message-ID: <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688911 soc.culture.polish:191761 soc.culture.ukrainian:59591 soc.culture.german:142454 soc.culture.russian:159481 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr Mc Vay, > > > In the "[present] era of revisionism" (term in editorial in Martyrs and > > Resistance Dec. 1996) > > There is no such "era." The deniers of the Holocaust are part of the > lunatic fringe. For the last 30 years, Martyrs and Resistance is the official periodical publication sometimes monthly sometimes quarterly of the Holocaust Survivors in the USA published in NYC. Blame the editoer Zborowski for using this term and not revisionists. > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > during Nuremberg trials? > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution witness > whose testimony was "extorted" The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his recent book that he was tortured. > or a signle document named in the analysis > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be authentic. The above is incomprehensible to me. Hitler imprisoned many (political?) priests mostly Poles and about 200 German clergyman (out of tens of thousands) and to the rest paid monthly salaries. It was political war but not religeous. In my city of Lodz of 700,000 inhabitants, 40% Polish 30% Jewish and 30% German most Catholic Churches were closed but none in cities without German populace. This again was expression of ethnic but not religeous war. Polina thanks for refering me to Nizkor. As a historical revisionist I find the plethora of documents listed there INVALUBLE to the revisionist cause e.g. about Treblinka [II}latest document which indicates that the camp was a cadaveric and smelly but not secret or 'exterminationist' establishment > > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:04 EDT 1999 Article: 142458 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Why some Polish priests were dying at Dachau while others were drawing salaries?? >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:52:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: <38129E9E.577066C3@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <381077F5.B27C89BA@pop.rrze.uni-erlangen.de> <000b8d9b.93d8fa3b@usw-ex0101-001.remarq.com> <3810FF63.2B952B1E@catskill.net> <3811A88F.280E@acadia.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688914 soc.culture.polish:191763 soc.culture.ukrainian:59592 soc.culture.german:142458 soc.culture.russian:159483 www.ukrachive of Lubomyr Prytulak reproduces recent book of Shapochwal which provides verbatim handwritten applications for promotions of the 300 leading officers of the Cheka-NKVD in Ukraine for years 1920-40. It shows that about 60% of them listed their ethnicity as Jewish. Prytulak errs but not pointing to the fact that most of the rest were like Madlaine Albrightr and General Clark of NATO of Hobrooke of UN i.e. they did not know they were Jewish [actually they were able to hide their Jewishness] Book is available from the Polish Historical Society and in eight libraries throughout USA and Canada kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > Another lie from polin: > > > predominantly Jewish NKVD > > When will it end? From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:04 EDT 1999 Article: 142459 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Revisionists, bloody-minded, reprehensible racists >>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:06:08 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 68 Message-ID: <3812A1CF.18AEFD2F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3811AB37.34E9@acadia.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688915 soc.culture.polish:191764 soc.culture.german:142459 soc.culture.russian:159485 Dear Mr Kaspian, If I am not mistaken Mr. Candide is NOT Holocaust revisionist. He simply detests Jews. As you will notice I and true revisionists always capitalize the word Jew or Jewess or Jewish. We respect Jews because for one reasons among us are Jews such a David Cole videotaped and embarassed Dr. Piper of the Auschwitz Museum and Efim Florisman who developed the true story of the Babi Yar as a hoax by Solomon Lozowski of the Sovinform and Plitbureau and wrote the Holocaust Chastushki for which he was severely chastized in Novoje "Ruskoje" Slovo. Moreover, we revisionists are inherently avoved pacifists. It is you martyrologists who are bloody-minded and see baby brains splattered where it there were no babies and do not see fat and smiling Jewish babies in stills, photographed by the US Signal Corps at the day of the liberation of Dachau or Jewish [?] babies in icubators depicted in the newsreals of the just liberated Buchenwald. You can see them in US National Archive only since no mainstream media will publish them or the wartime air photos of Kyiv which show undisturbed ground cover in Babi Yar and undisturbed tombstones at the nearby Jewish cemetery. You call us racists. There are Negro revisionist such as Dr. Block and Rev Farrhakan and there are Semitic revisionists such as from the Radio Islam in Sweden and some editors of the Egyptian newspapers. There are also Oriental revisionists in Japan and in mainland China. zzdrastvujte and Shalom from Polina kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > A lie from Candide: > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > jews. > > > > This is, of course, historically stupid. And Candide is only able > to cite a single instance -- the Katyn Forest massacre -- in support of > this idiotic assertion. > > Nobody is saying that the Soviets were not capable of terrible > deeds, including the fabrication of history. Remember the Cold War? Do > you need to be reminded of what *that* was about? But the fact that the > NKVD were unpleasant people does not make the Nazis magically clean and > pure. > > Again, we have a reiteration of the endless lie about the Soviet > secret police being "dominated almost entirely by jews." (I assume the > refusal to capitalize the word "Jew" is yet another attempt to degrade > these people.) When will it end? > > This poster has, astonishingly and yet revealingly, characterized > the Nazi criminals hanged a Nuremberg as "innocent victims"! I'd say > this remark, all by itself, places Holocaust denial in its proper > perspective. > > Holocaust denial is a moral evil, and has absolutely nothing to do > with history, except in the sense of being a chapter of > history-in-the-making. Will these bloody-minded, reprehensible racists > be allowed, once again, to triumph? For the sake of my children, I hope > not. From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:04 EDT 1999 Article: 142460 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:35:22 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 95 Message-ID: <3812A8A9.9C5873BE@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688916 soc.culture.polish:191765 soc.culture.ukrainian:59593 soc.culture.russian:159486 soc.culture.jewish:417668 soc.culture.german:142460 Dear Mr or Mrs Kaspian For the benefit of American readers let me explain that your less then perfect command of English and your name Kaspian indicate that you are a Soviet Jew most likely of Ukrainian origin (less likely Armenian) and perhaps a Soviet dissident. Thus 1) If SS would truly engage in mass killing of Jews in todays English lingua franca we would call them exterminators not exterminationists. For centuries extermination ment in English banishment of deportations : in Latin ex means out and terminus means border. But because Nazis were deporting Jews to concentration camps and forced labor, the media dominated by the Jews changed the original meaning of extermination into industrial murder. I am sure you red Dubnovs History of Jews of Russia . It was translated in 1918 by the Jewish Publications Society of Philadelphia. It states that in 1880s Tsars tried to exterminate Jews to Siberia and America and annihilated Jewish youth by forcing them into military service. Also on February 9 1939 The NYT reported that Czech authorities were forced to liquidate Jews who got in after 1918 and those subject to liquidation could for six months appeal the order of the Nazi run Czech administration. Korbels, carpet baggers from Poland and owners of matches factory tried to avoid this lquidation by Catholic baptism. When this ruse did not work they liqudiated themself to England and became Methodists. Thus poor little Madleine did not know that they were Jewish along with her husband Albright. Meaning of words change. Liquidation of Jews today means industrial murder But when Hitler in his January 1939 speach to the Reichstag given at the opulent Berlin Opera House threatened with extermination (Ausrottung) of Jewish race from Europe which try to stir another war, the Jewish editors printed these words verbatim and they did not ruffle in them a single comment or emotion. Instead they praised him for the peaceful intetions and his refutal of any quest for the German colonies in Africa. Perhaps, you will say, on the other side of the ocean, the Schulzbergers the American Jews and the owners of the NYT misread Hitlers words. But the Jews on the receiving end in the nearby Poland exulted in their WArsaw papers e.g. Nasz Przeglad (Our Review) with a titles "Hitler Ureguluje Eksterminacje Zydow" (Hitler Will Streamline Deportation of Jews) refering to streamlining removal of Jewish illegal alliens from III Reich who were lingering for months in transit camps in no man land between borders of Poland and GErmany. 3) Finally if you are or are not Soviet dissident I want to assure you that we revisionists are later-day dissidents smeared jailed and persecuted assuaulted and assasinated like Volodymyr Katylnyckyj in Kyiv in July 1997 With this ending you will perhaps see some commonality between you and me between you soviet Jews and us revisionists. Shalom, Polina You should be happy that we try to reduce you mourning for the relatives of yours who were not industrially murdered kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > More fabrications: the words "Holocaustian" and "exterminationist." > > The intent of these words, invented by Holocaust deniers, is perfectly > clear: they are another means of shrugging off the moral baggage of > mass murder, in this case by shifting the very *words* to describe this > unprecedented crime -- words that might properly describe a member of > Himmler's killing squads -- onto their (current) enemies, the defenders > of the historical record. > > Not for nothing, it seems, did Polin spend his/her formative years in > the former Soviet Bloc. The techniques of propaganda must come > naturally after all that time. > > Let's be clear. There is NO SUCH THING as a "Holocaustian" or an > "exterminationist," unless it be an elderly SS man with blood on his > hands. Even Holocaust deniers -- who prefer to call themselves by the > sanitized term "revisionists" -- ought to make enough pretence, at > least, of human decency not to apply unwanted, derogatory terms to > decent human beings who are guilty of nothing but moral integrity. > > When will the horror end? From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:04 EDT 1999 Article: 142461 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:37:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 89 Message-ID: <3812A938.6680B89C@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688917 soc.culture.polish:191766 soc.culture.german:142461 soc.culture.russian:159487 My title is self explanatory Polina PS In addition they brough staged cremation pyres from Klooga camp as authentic "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > Yale F.Edeiken wrote: > > > > > > polin wrote: > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > jews. > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > Katyn Forest. > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of the > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually use the > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence that > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > > Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > hanged Germans who had no business > > invading Poland at the first place, > > But you will lie for them > > > but in the > > eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > murdered in cold blood > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and honest and > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by the > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, therefore, > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > of false documents used as testimony at > > Nuremberg trials. > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > but without beginning. > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason why the > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142462 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:38:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 90 Message-ID: <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688918 soc.culture.polish:191767 soc.culture.german:142462 soc.culture.russian:159488 My title is self explanatory Polina PS In addition they brought staged photos cremation pyres from Klooga camp as authentic "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > Yale F.Edeiken wrote: > > > > > > polin wrote: > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > jews. > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > Katyn Forest. > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of the > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually use the > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence that > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > > Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > hanged Germans who had no business > > invading Poland at the first place, > > But you will lie for them > > > but in the > > eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > murdered in cold blood > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and honest and > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by the > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, therefore, > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > of false documents used as testimony at > > Nuremberg trials. > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > but without beginning. > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason why the > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142463 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish.,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Apologies from Polina >>> Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:54:19 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 93 Message-ID: <3812AD1B.D75B1813@catskill.net> References: <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688919 soc.culture.polish:191768 soc.culture.german:142463 soc.culture.ukrainian:59594 Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > polin wrote: > > # 1) Please do not be more Catholic than the Pope! ... Do not be more Holocaustian > # than USMM and Ken Mc Vay who complained to me that he could not get complete Belzec > # Report. > > Didn't Mr. McVay just post that he has the complete report? About two weeks ago he did not have it. Do not obfuscate issue while you can ask him directly and get authoritative answer > > > # Snipetts available contradict the history of the Belzec camp of the last few > # decades that all corpses were cremated and indicate that pedantic Germans were > # careless at covering traces of their "crime" i.e. industrial murder of the Lemberg > # (Lwow, Lviv) Jews. What you describe as huge seems to me as an usual cemetery > # serving Nazi concentration camp. > > No, the remains indicate massive burning of corpses, and are up to 6.5 meters > deep. This, and the area involved, indicate something rather different than > a "usual cemetery". Experience shows that mass graves are dug only two meters deep in order to avoid building retaining walls protecting diggers and preventing caving in before burial. If indeed human remains were found at 6,5 meters (abouyt 20 feet) depth the upper layers were undobutedly added during the last decade. In Treblinka II the mass grave was covered with layer of concrete to prevent gold scavenging. > > > # 2) I am astonished that you are an exegetic of the WW II Holocaust but you do not > # proseletise. I thought you will be happy that I would return to the Faith for any > # hard evidence reason, like the Saint Thomas. It seems that both the Judaism and > # Holocaustianism are two not proseltizing religions. > > Whatever you're injecting, it's not doing you any good. > > # 3) You claim that you saw Hydrokop Report. I am again astonished. Directors of > # the Musemum Krystyna Oleksy and mrg. Wroblewski several times in writting refused > # access of the Polish HIstorical Society of Stamford CT to this most important > # document of the Holocaust. > > What on earth is the "Polish HIstorical Society of Stamford CT"? A bunch of > neo-Nazis, right? Would you think that real Neo-Nazis would like to collaborate with you??? Of course they would not because they hate the Jews. Revisionists do not because there are Jews among us: Dr. Lilinethatl, Mr. Burg, David Cole, Efim Florisman (the Babi Yar man) > > > # Are you fluent in Polish or they showed you autheniticated translation in English. > # Or they just showed you a few drawings and the Polish text?? > > The report is essentially a map, indicating the location of the holes, and what > was found at each. If you can provide me with the copy of this map I will pay up tro $100.00 although the entire report consits of many pages. Will you share with me the copy of this "map"??? > > > # I agree that in warm temperature cadavers bloat ... due to bacterial putrefaction. > # But in order for Eli Wiesel in Kyiv or Adolf Eichman in Lviv to see geysers of > # blood the gasses would have to be released simultaneously, I am sure you will > # agree. > > No. > > [Rest of rants from the twisted little neo-Nazi deleted] > > -Danny Keren. PS: I sincerely appologize for rather tasteless humor. Seeing your justified indignation on my "Haloween humor" I see that it was poor excuse and I appologize again. Yes you were correct in deleating in and I thank you for you doing that. It was TOTALLY inappropriate! Considering massive verbal abuse suffered by revisionists it was still inappropriate Polina From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142495 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:59:36 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 86 Message-ID: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:688999 soc.culture.polish:191802 soc.culture.ukrainian:59610 soc.culture.german:142495 soc.culture.russian:159524 British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a few years later in Poland. Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim citation from his book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric on the day of his transfer to Polish authorities. Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three year regin at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? I would like to respect you as an honest exterminationist. If you have no good contra-argument admit to it. To some questions posed by you we revisionists do not have (hopefully as yet) good answeres and we admit to it e.g. why 50% of Polish priests died at Dachau while none of Ukrainian or Lithuanian priests. Polina Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net>... > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" > > > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > recent book > > that he was tortured. > > First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when Hoess denied > his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on to > state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him drunk. > This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he was > transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > His face is unmarked. > > Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he does not > exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the Lonodn > accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held in a > Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish executioner. > > Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess was a DEFENSE > witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner to > give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > > I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these trial would > not know these simple facts. > > > > or a signle document named in the analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > The above is incomprehensible to me. > > Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at Nuremberg about the > persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove these > crimes. > > NAME THEM!!!! > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142497 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:03:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 77 Message-ID: <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689000 soc.culture.polish:191803 soc.culture.ukrainian:59611 soc.culture.german:142497 soc.culture.russian:159525 Dear Yale I am not keen student of Nuremberg because I consider this as an apparent Salem Massachusets trial; victors vengence not justice; a or the Farce and show trial on soviet terms and style. I did not mentioned forgery not in relation to persecution of Chruches but with Katyn and soap and Treblinka in mind (2,000,000 victim count in steam houses) This answeres your barb. Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net>... > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > witness > > > whose testimony was "extorted" > > > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > recent book > > that he was tortured. > > First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when Hoess denied > his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on to > state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him drunk. > This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he was > transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > His face is unmarked. > > Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he does not > exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the Lonodn > accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held in a > Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish executioner. > > Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess was a DEFENSE > witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner to > give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > > I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these trial would > not know these simple facts. > > > > or a signle document named in the analysis > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > authentic. > > > The above is incomprehensible to me. > > Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at Nuremberg about the > persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove these > crimes. > > NAME THEM!!!! > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142498 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: Good and tough response to an anti-Semite >>Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 12:06:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689001 soc.culture.polish:191805 soc.culture.ukrainian:59612 soc.culture.russian:159526 soc.culture.jewish:417718 soc.culture.german:142498 Dear Grazyna, The new title is self explanatory Szczesc Boze (God Bless you in Polish) >from Polina Grazyna Lesniak wrote: > Errno Mobay > >kaspian@acadia.net wrote: > > > >>When will the horror end? > (...) > >When every Jew--man, woman and child--commits suicide? > > I hope you consider what you believe to be a solution by yourself. > Quicker, better and more justified. > > Grazyna From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142554 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:13:45 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191859 alt.revisionism:689058 soc.culture.ukrainian:59630 soc.culture.german:142554 PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > >Below I will argue if and were you are wrong > > Why do you keep posting these questions on soc.culture.polish? If and when I > have time, maybe I'll respond, but only on the NG alt.revisionism. > > PONIECKA The reasons are simple and multiple Both the First World War 'holocaust' of the 'six million Jews and 800,000 Jewish children' and the WW II "Holocaust' of 6,000,000 took place in Poland and Ukraine Revisionsism of these holocausts is part of Polish life with Dr. Ratajczak from the University of Opole being the first revisionist ("dissident') being tried for this "heresy", Gallileo times back again and Volodymyr Katylnyckyj, 43, victim of Polyo, assasinated in Kyiv two years ago for publicizing the Soviet hoax of the Babi Yar. I wonder when our Pope will come with a statement condemning revisionists. Revisonism is a gene which thanks to Pat Buchanan and persistent work and sacrifices of handfull of individuals commited to the truth and not martyrological mythology will not go back into bottle. In 1996, Eli Zborowski the editor of the Martyrs and Resistance the official publication of the WW II Holocaust survivors called the end of this century as the "era of revisionism' Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR Polina From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142562 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:38:41 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 148 Message-ID: <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689065 soc.culture.polish:191865 soc.culture.german:142562 soc.culture.russian:159562 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > My title is self explanatory > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. 1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". It is produced by hydrolysis [break down] of animal fat into fatty acids and glycerol and addition of sodium hydroxide and forming from the original esters a fatty acid sodium salt. No one invented production of saponyfying agent from human or any protein. 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them available for interlibrary loans. I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete but the most complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the basement of the obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this university removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate Sterling library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. Apparently even its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university is the Guttenberg Bible on a permanent display in its atomic blast-safe modernistic and beautiful building storing ancient manuscripts. Every night the display descends into A-bomb proof shelter. Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult and apriori non-productive in a court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was abolished and affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. Thus C. Porter found out that the "fact" that Nazis exterminated Jews at Auschwitz with atomic bomb has been accepted as proven. Thus who should care about nuremberg except for most fanatical Holocaustians? Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the human-fat-soap hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg there is a photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in Cyrylic script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. Am I correct about this photograph?? In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now accepted by orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. Polina > > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single > prosecution > > > witness > > > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > > > analysis > > > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > > > authentic. > > > > > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > > > jews. > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter > fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > evidence of the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually > use the > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence > that > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > honest and > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by > the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > therefore, > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > without end > > > but without beginning. > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason > why the > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142564 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:43:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 109 Message-ID: <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689069 soc.culture.polish:191867 soc.culture.german:142564 soc.culture.russian:159563 Dear Yale, You are using Madison Ave technique of asdvertising that falsity repeated 1,000 times becomes truth. It works for a long time as the tobacco industry is learning today. Indicdentally your evil Adolf Hitler did not some and advocated abstinence from it because German physicians suspected decades before American physicians that smoking causes cancer. Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > My title is self explanatory > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > > > > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > > > > > > during Nuremberg trials? > > > > > > > > > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > > > > > > > > > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single > prosecution > > > witness > > > > > whose testimony was "extorted" or a signle document named in the > > > analysis > > > > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > > > authentic. > > > > > > > > It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > > > the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > > > were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > > > political police, dominated almost entirely by > > > > jews. > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter > fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > evidence of the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust continually > use the > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as evidence > that > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or not. > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > honest and > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding by > the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact the > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > therefore, > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > without end > > > but without beginning. > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good reason > why the > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:07 EDT 1999 Article: 142565 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:45:46 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> <01bf1e4b$dd8c4080$579b10cf@default> <7uvjv4$l7f$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689070 soc.culture.polish:191868 soc.culture.ukrainian:59635 soc.culture.german:142565 soc.culture.russian:159564 Dear Grazyna, You also do not know that adjectives belong to poetry and not science. Remember Nicholas Copernicus, the greatest revisionist of all times Polina Grazyna Lesniak wrote: > Yale F.Edeiken > >polin wrote in article > (...) > > Now go a read about the Nuremberg trials and come back with something > >other than your foot-stamping idiocy. > > I didn't know the phrase "foot-stamping idiocy". > If that's what you think about the author when you read "polina' s" > postings - I understand it perfectly now. Thanks :) > > Grazyna From polinhis@catskill.net Sun Oct 24 19:25:07 EDT 1999 Article: 142566 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:53:02 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 121 Message-ID: <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689073 soc.culture.polish:191870 soc.culture.ukrainian:59636 soc.culture.german:142566 soc.culture.russian:159565 It is extememly difficult to discuss matters with Yale. Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and being part of Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000 plus 500,000 victims who died due to disease and privation. It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to know how may victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number to Berlin not vice versa. Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net>... > > British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a few > years later > > in Poland. > > But you stated "British hangman." Apparently you were unaware of that > basic fact. > > > Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim > citation from his > > book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! > > Which is a lie. You are asserting it and claiming you rely on it. You > produce any such description. > > > Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric on > the day of his > > transfer to Polish authorities. > > There were no marks on his face. Clarke claimed he hit Hoess in the face. > There are no marks on his face. > > > Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three > year regin > > at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > He didn't. You are clearly misrepresenting his statement. He gave a > figure of 2,500,000 for a period of time including when he was NOT > commander of Auschwitz and stated specifically that it was an estimate > based on what Eichmann told him. Both his testimony at Nuremberg and in > his memoirs was 1,500,000 for a period including the time when he was not > at Auschwitz. > > > I would like to respect you as an honest exterminationist. > > But you will tell these known lies continually. > > > If you have no good > > contra-argument admit to it. > > The best argument is that you do not what you are talking about. > > You continually make mistakes about the most basic of facts. > > > To some questions posed by you we revisionists do not > > have (hopefully as yet) good answeres and we admit to it e.g. why 50% of > Polish > > priests died at Dachau while none of Ukrainian or Lithuanian priests. > > That is simply not true. This is another example of the type of > deliberate misrepresentations in which you routinely engage. > > > > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > > > recent book > > > > that he was tortured. > > > > > > First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when > Hoess denied > > > his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on > to > > > state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him > drunk. > > > This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he > was > > > transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > > > His face is unmarked. > > > > > > Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he > does not > > > exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the > Lonodn > > > accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held > in a > > > Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish > executioner. > > > > > > Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess > was a DEFENSE > > > witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner > to > > > give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > > > > > > I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these > trial would > > > not know these simple facts. > > > > > > > Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at > Nuremberg about the > > > persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > > > evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > > > nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove > these > > > crimes. > > > > > > NAME THEM!!!! > > And he still hasn't. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:28 EDT 1999 Article: 689090 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:04:16 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 147 Message-ID: <38139E80.5C5AF099@catskill.net> References: <38128264.A1B983DE@catskill.net> <19991024030509.14658.00000420@ng-fk1.aol.com> <01bf1e25$5f2a63a0$8d9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689090 Please provide excact source of citation from Pope Pius XII Thanks Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > PONIECKA wrote in article > <19991024030509.14658.00000420@ng-fk1.aol.com>... > > (copied from soc.culture.polish) > > > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > > > I'm combining your two posts into one. Also, perhaps you should just > continue > > posting these kinds of questions to alt.revisionism, where there is more > > interest. > > > > *** Probably similar sea of information is about Dachau and searching > > bibliography alone would take a few weeks. *** > > > > There is no easy way. You will have to start reading now, immediately, > and > > maybe in a few years you will find your answers. Perhaps you can start > with the > > book by Msgr. Grabowski, which can be obtained from the Polish American > Journal > > Internet Bookstore. > > > > *** One would expect that after the horrors of the camps liberated > inmates > > should pass away in a few months after their release, would you not > agree?? *** > > > > I most certainly would not. My parents, grandmother and uncle survived, > but > > required extensive medical treatments, and suffered ill effects all their > > lives. > > > > I hope this news won't shock you, but there are survivors of death camps > or > > concentration camps who are still alive today. You may have to perform a > > revision of your current thinking. > > > > *** My relatives and acquaintances who survived Siberian camps usually > returned > > toothless and prematurely aged and died within years after their release > in > > late 1950s.*** > > > > I've actually met more Siberian survivors than Nazi camp survivors. Some > were > > children at the time. Have you heard of the Afrikaner organization? > > > > *** Did you also notice Mrs Poniecka that there is a virtual absence of > > memoirs of Siberia survivors? *** > > > > That is not true. In fact, more have been appearing in English recently. > > > > *** Not that I believe in survivors or refugees stories.*** > > > > You didn't believe your own relatives, who survived Siberian camps? > > > > *** Without reading Rev Grabowski memoir I classify it as such a > confabulatory > > martyrological story. *** > > > > If you have trouble obtaining it, let me know and I'll contact the > editor. > > > > *** Is it possible that Hitler imprisoned 1,800 Polish priest for their > Polish > > patriotism and anti-Nazis stand??? *** > > > > If this were absolutely and unequivocally true, it would not explain some > of > > the brutal treatment of priests of various nationalities, which ridiculed > the > > Christian religion and its symbols, especially the cross. Examples: > > > > At Mauthausen/Gusen: Dr.Johann Gruber, Austrian priest, was killed > personally > > after 3 days of torture by the commander of KZ Gusen Camp, > SS-Hauptsturmfueher > > Seidler, on Holy Friday at 3 p.m. with the words: "Like your teacher > (Jesus), > > you also shall die at the 3rd hour!". > > > > Also at Gusen, since all religious practices were forbidden, many priests > were > > punished or killed when exposed as priests or when betrayed for > practicing > > their faith. > > > > At Dachau: On Good Friday in 1943, an SS man whipped a priest with a > piece of > > barbed wire, then wrapped it around the priest's head, shouting, "Did you > know > > that Christ died today?" > > > > The Pope himself drew special attention to the fate of Archbishop Julian > > Nowowiejski, who at the age of 83 was beaten, stripped naked and > humiliated by > > concentration camp guards for refusing to step on his bishop's cross. > > > > According to another reference, "The Fuhrer's pet philosopher, Alfred > > Rosenberg, drew up a 30-point plan for a "Reich Church"; points 18-20 > decreed > > that: "... the Bible be removed from all churches, to be replaced with > the one > > true book, Mein Kampf. A sword must be placed on the altar; all > crucifixes > > shall be replaced with the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika..." > > > > Ms. Borowska, I have no interest in your questions, I have no intention > of > > answering your questions, and I am not responsible for answering your > > questions. Good luck in your quest for the truth, but you will have to > find it > > yourself. If all else fails, try the Dachau Museum. > > > > PONIECKA > > The basic attitude of the nazi hierarchy toward ALL religion that they did > not control was one of extermination. as Bormann stated "National > Socialist and Christian concepts are irreconcileable. . . " > > It should be noted that not only did Pope Pius XII (a personal > acquaintance of Hitler) bitterly protest the treatment of the Catholic > Church but in 1937 Pope Pius XI (who had to deal with Hilter) described the > nazi attitude about the Catholic Church as a war of "extermination." > > It always amazes me that the defenders of Hitler's foul regime, answer the > fact of the nazi war against Christianity with witless nattering and > bizarre allegations that those two popes were "Communists." > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:28 EDT 1999 Article: 689092 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:09:20 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 143 Message-ID: <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> References: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <19991024120014.12429.00000534@ng-ff1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689092 soc.culture.polish:191885 Philip Mathews wrote: > In >Message-id: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> > > > > >polin polinhis@catskill.net wrote: > > >British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a few > >years later > >in Poland. > > In other words he had no British hangman as you asserted in your prior post. Do > you believe putting quotation marks around the term changes it from a falsehood > to something truthful? > > > > >Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim citation > >from his > >book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! > > I think this would be better directed to you, since you made the initial > charge. How about it! > > > > >Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric on the > >day of his > >transfer to Polish authorities. > > What is your evidence for this? His gaunt appereance in the photo. > > > > > >Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three > >year regin > >at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > Explain how this has anything to do with your charge of torture? Unless forced, people do not generally admit to crimes they did not pepetrated > > > > > >I would like to respect you as an honest exterminationist. If you have no > >good > >contra-argument admit to it. To some questions posed by you we revisionists > >do not > >have (hopefully as yet) good answeres and we admit to it e.g. why 50% of > >Polish > >priests died at Dachau while none of Ukrainian or Lithuanian priests. > > Now if you would only stop posting denier propoganda (you and your ilk are not > revisionists, because revisionism is performed by historians)! > > Philip Mathews > > > > >Polina > > > >Polina > > > > > >"Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > >> polin wrote in article > >> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net>... > >> > >> > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > >> > > >> > > polin wrote in article > >> > > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > >> > >> > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > >> > > > during Nuremberg trials? > >> > > > >> > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > >> > > > >> > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > >> witness > >> > > whose testimony was "extorted" > >> > >> > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > >> recent book > >> > that he was tortured. > >> > >> First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when Hoess > >denied > >> his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on to > >> state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him drunk. > >> This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he was > >> transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > >> His face is unmarked. > >> > >> Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he > >does not > >> exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the Lonodn > >> accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held in a > >> Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish executioner. > >> > >> Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess was a > >DEFENSE > >> witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner to > >> give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > >> > >> I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these > >trial would > >> not know these simple facts. > >> > >> > > or a signle document named in the analysis > >> > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > >> authentic. > >> > >> > The above is incomprehensible to me. > >> > >> Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at Nuremberg > >about the > >> persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > >> evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > >> nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove these > >> crimes. > >> > >> NAME THEM!!!! > >> > >> > >> --YFE > >> > >> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > >> The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > >> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > >> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > > > > > > > "Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing > knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant > than would take even a little trouble to acquire it." Samuel Johnson From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:29 EDT 1999 Article: 689093 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Revisionist-Magazine Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:13:37 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 42 Message-ID: <3813A0B1.D36C0E81@catskill.net> References: <38130F8B.14D5@connect.ab.ca> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689093 Dear Orac, Are these samples of rational responses they tought you in your Medical School? Dispensing adjectives instead doing experiments and from them designing therapies medical or surgical or forensic? Polina Orac wrote: > In article <38130F8B.14D5@connect.ab.ca>, eddiek@connect.ab.ca wrote: > > > ZGram - Where Truth is Destiny and Destination > > > > Copyright (c) 1999 - Ingrid A. Rimland > > > > October 23, 1999 > > > > Good Morning from the Zundelsite: > > > > Today I want to pitch something quite extraordinary - a brand new > > magazine > > called, most appropriately, The Revisionist, which will be ***given > > away***. That's right. It will be given away to students at colleges, > > courtesy of CODOH's Bradley Smith. > > As if anyone would pay for it! I expect to see it lining the bottoms of > bird cages around campuses very soon. At least then it would be fulfilling > a useful function. > > > Another mighty milestone taken! > > Yep, revisionist words as a toilet for birds. It is very appropriate. > > [Snip] > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:29 EDT 1999 Article: 689096 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC at heart a revisionist>> Good and tough response to an anti-Semite Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:25:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 70 Message-ID: <3813A38B.ABE6C0AE@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689096 soc.culture.polish:191890 soc.culture.ukrainian:59642 soc.culture.russian:159576 soc.culture.jewish:417784 soc.culture.german:142571 Orac who lists himself as a.k.a. David Gorski see bottom of this page is an important figure on alt.revisionism He is perhaps the best educated anti-revisionist being a PhD if I am not mistaken and a young surgeon from Chicago area. Frequenting recently alt.revisionism I noticed that there are no other so erudite anti-revisionists and so civil in their responses as him. It is unfortunate that lately he resorts to on-liners suffused with adjectives and not facts, but responding factualy on internet takes time and him being I presume busy, surgeon it has to be excused. Still I wish to point that Dr. Gorski, paradoxically, is a revisionist at heart. The word is out since publication of the book by prof Lipstadt that we Jews and Holocaustians do not get into discources or discussions or rebutals with revisionists. And virtually every erudite Jew and every academic Holocaustian toes the party line. Like the Pope they never lower themself to debate with his/their intellectual opponents. Only Orac does it ... because he is like the Jewish philosopher Spinoza a revisionist at heart. My restrained admiration to you Orac. Polina, the perenial revisionist Orac wrote: > In article <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > wrote: > > > Orac : > > > > >Yes, you definitely don't want to get into e-mail exchanges with > > "Polina" > > >(a.k.a. Pawlikowski). He has no compunction about posting private > > e-mail > > >to public Usenet newsgroups. He did it to me once many months ago on > > >alt.revisionism. > > > > > > To be honest - it doesn't matter. I don't change my mind in private :) > > Anyway - thanks. > > Whether or not you change your mind in private is really not the point, > actually. There's the tendency to say things in private e-mail that you > wouldn't post to Usenet. At least for me that's true, and it appears to be > true for many people, hence my warning to you. Pawlikoski didn't really > post anything that embarrassed me, but the principle that private e-mail > should not be posted in a public forum without the author's permission was > violated, and that ticked me off. > > Also, Pawlikowski is an unrepentant Holocaust denier and anti-Semite, but > you probably already noticed that. > > > > BTW - sorry, off-topic question : do you read my posts in > > alt.revisionism? > > I'm not able to read this NG and when I send my posts in this thread my > > computer "can't convert alt.rev.". Just curious. > > Yes, I am posting this from alt.revisionism. I do not frequent any of the > newsgroups on Subject: header line. > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:29 EDT 1999 Article: 689133 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:49:01 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 66 Message-ID: <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <7v036c$n5k$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689133 soc.culture.polish:191915 soc.culture.german:142583 soc.culture.russian:159591 Dear Mr. Mc Vay, Many thanks for your response and help. In 1994-1996 when I was studying Nuremberg trials Yale International Law Library did NOT have complete set on their shelves. Perhaps since they obtained missing volumes. I will certainly refer to Avalon web project! Thank you for pointing me in this direction. For about a decade I am trying to find a set in used book stores in NYC area to no avail. Simultaneously I called about 30 nearby libraries asking if they still do not have a set in a storage pepared for discarding as "not circulating" and also met with no sucess an older librarians told me they discarded it decades ago as dust colleting and shelf occupying volumes. Apperently, our parents and grandparents still remembering propaganda of the Frist world war did not take the Nuremberg trials seriously, as most of us does it today. One of the librarian told me that the set they had they received free from the Government Printing Office. Since I do not believe eyewitness testimony I would not take her statement as accurate. Many thanks for your work at Nizkor. We and especially I a revisionst find a plethora of useful material at your site. We both see importance of putting these material of the internet but differ in their interpretation only. Sincerely, Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > >but the most > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > >basement of the > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > Yale Law has a complete set - see their Avalon Project on the web. > Several other sites on the web are transcribing the transcripts from > the first trial, including the Avalon and Nizkor Projects. Nizkor will > be finished within 12 months, barring unforeseen problems. > > Complete sets are also available through used book stores and rare > book dealers - I found a complete British set for sale on the web in > 1997, and bought it. > > It is also available on CDROM, but the copy I purchased is so full of > errors as to be totally unreliable for anything other than an index > for the hard copy - that's the Aristarchus disk, but don't waste your > money if you want the transcripts for anything more serious than > indexing. > > Try looking a little more diligently, and you will find it. > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:30 EDT 1999 Article: 689142 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 88 Message-ID: <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689142 soc.culture.polish:191917 soc.culture.ukrainian:59648 soc.culture.german:142586 soc.culture.russian:159592 Dear Mr. K. I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics and not Eichmann and Berlin. He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I think that much is clear. In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying "once a laiar always a lair", unless proven otherwise. More interesting is why Eichmann "lied" on the witness stand in Jerusalem or in interogation room. Eichmnann trial was the first to be ever videotaped, then on 35 mm wide videorecording tape. His still photos int the glass booth and snippets from newsreel cameras from his show trial were reproduced over and over the world over. But the incriminating videotape was embargoed and locked up for near fortry years. And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was apparently forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel in April to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust. When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons: 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against his cheek in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So far Tardive Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling side effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic drugs, the mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry. Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general Hryhorenko were given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined well psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine. No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort 'appropriate' testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning Eichmann and soviet dissidents into submissive zombies. While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to testify he was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his captors. I hope this explains to you my position correctly. I do welcome civil responses to my e-mail which I will not publish on the Internet as inssinuated by ORAC. Greetings from Polina and God Bless you. Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > http://www.nizkor.org > > In article <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and > >being part of > >Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000 > >plus 500,000 > >victims who died due to disease and privation. > > > >It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of > >Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to > >know how may > >victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number > >to Berlin not > >vice versa. > > Other than your feeling - i.e. that something someone said was/is > "preposterous" - do you have any evidence that Hoess lied? Do you have > any evidence that Eichmann lied? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:30 EDT 1999 Article: 689307 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:18:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 222 Message-ID: <38149F0A.13DC48BE@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689307 soc.culture.polish:192003 soc.culture.german:142651 soc.culture.russian:159673 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>... > > > > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > > > My title is self explanatory > > > > > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > > > > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human > flesh was > > > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > > 1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". > > Wrong. Soap is routinely made from animal fat. In my comprehension "flesh" = meat and fat is not "flesh". English is a living language and is used variously by different people. In earlier postings of two days ago I explained the chemistry of production of fat by hydrolysis of the fatty acids - glycerol esters (animial fat) and creation of faty acid + sodium hydroxide a water soluble fat. From 1945-1947 while I was growing up as a little girl in a Polish village all the soap we used was made at home because it was not available in the village store. The chemistry of this process I learned in the sixth grade. Do not trust me that I cite this "scholastic" knowledge, about 50 years old exactly. Do not trust me as an eyewitness or any eyewitness unless mine and their testimony is proven by physical evidence. > > > I have frequently done so using recipes from the 18th century. I knew that we have something in common > > > > 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings > is > > trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they > were not > > used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the > OCLC have them > > available for interlibrary loans. > > They are being made available on the Internet. According to yesterday communication - posting of K. Mc Vay they are being made so still not available in entirety. Dont you read his posts??? > > > Further more than 10 libraries within a normal drive from my house in > Allentown PA have copies. Please, PLEASE give it to me their names by e mail so I might call each of them and convince them to sell to me their dust-collecting and space occupying volumes. Do not post their names on Internet because other Revisionists might outbid me! After I call them all of them then you can and should list them on the Net. > > > > I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > but the most > > complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > basement of the > > obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > A copy is in the New York Public Library. The Columbia School of Law has > a copy as well. You will find that both the Red and Blue series (I'm sure > you know what they are since you're an expert on them) are both complete. > There is a volume of the Green Series missing from both collections. Thus even in NYC ivory towers the sets are incomplete. I missed the point that I wrote "which were most accessible to me." Due to my physical disability I can not travel by subways to Manhattan. Moreover, if I drive alone I have to use nearby parking which costs up to $19.00 per hour. I can not aford this. It is less expensive for me to drive to 60 miles to New Haven than to 5 miles to nearby Manhattan. I am astonished that poor and punny Allentown PA area libraries have Nuremberg proceedings. On the way to New Haven the weathiest public library in the world, the Greenwich Public Library (just two years ago they received $13,000,000 from the heiress of the American Tabacco Co, the largest single donor bequest received by a library in America) does not have the Preoceedings, discarded long time ago. 15 miles further up on the Interstate 95 there is a public library with the highest expenditure per person for new book ( about $22,00) in America combined with the highest lending rate of books per person per year. This is the Darien Public Library. Darien is a small NYC bedroom community of about 20,000 individuals which while it discarded its Nurmeberg Proceedings it holds on its shelfs about 40 copies of the [adultered] allegedly authentic Diary of Ann Frank. The community whith the highest readership in the country was not interested in the Nuremberg proceedings, dear Yale. > > > > With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this > university > > removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate > Sterling > > library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. > Apparently even > > its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? > > And they really hid it from the public by putting it on their Internet > site. You are using Talmudic methods Yale. Note that the question was WHY and I am refering to the availability between 1950-1995. In that era there was no Internet! You are heroically trying to weasel out of difficult questions with resonses to questions not asked. > > > Why are you lying again. The above deserves no comment. > > > > Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university > > It is no more a Jewish university than you are a loyal Pole. Which is not > at all. Call the Dean and ask him, look at the last names of students and academia (proffessors). Granted, half of the students do not look Jewish as about 15% of them are Oriental and 5% Black. Most importantly todays Jewish youth does not look Jewish due to miscegenation like Hilary Clinton or Edgar Bronfman, but look at her daughter or Hilary brothers ... "pure" Asheknazim from Przemysl, Della [Bella] Murray's home town (Hilary's grandma). > > > > Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult > > Only if you are stupid to find a copy. I think that the readers will evaluate my efforts at finding the Proceedings differently, than you Yale. I do have work to be done. I have no time to continue. I think from my writing is clear who is correct and who is devoid of reasonable arguments and angry. I am signing off, Polina > > > > and apriori non-productive in a > > court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was > abolished > > A lie. There was no limit on cross-examination. > > >and > > affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. > > Another lie from the fake Pole. Affidavits were used only where the > witness was unavailable or dead. There is no instance where the affidavit > of an available witness was used. There is only one affidavit that was > crucila to the decision. That was the affidavit of Chester Nimitz which > was used to ACQUIT Doenitz. > > > Thus C. Porter found > > C. Porter is a notorious liar and incompetent. Please see my article on > how he couldn't even cut and paste accurate quotations on The Holocaust > History Project. > > > Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the > human-fat-soap > > hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. > > I think you are crazy as a loon. Now go and do some research. > > > In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg > there is a > > photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in > Cyrylic > > script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. > > Exhibits intended for use at Nuremberg were given numbers. > > Give the number of this exhibit so that others may find it. > > > Am I correct about this photograph?? > > I've never seen it. And unlike you I have had access to the original > exhibits. > > > In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now > accepted by > > orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. > > You are a liar. > > Please name a single historian who states that the evidence accepted by > the IMT and made part of their judgment is either fake or fabricated. > > For an "independent journalist" you are an incompetent and dishonest > researcher. Rather than trying to find out facts you mindlessly repeat the > garbage found on websites maintained by the lunatic fringe. You are so > incompetent as a researcher that you could not even locate a set of books > in a library a ten minute subway ride from where you live. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:30 EDT 1999 Article: 689309 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:28:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 159 Message-ID: <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689309 soc.culture.polish:192005 soc.culture.german:142657 soc.culture.russian:159676 You are partially correct Yale, read below, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net>... > > Dear Yale, > > > You are using Madison Ave technique of asdvertising that falsity repeated > 1,000 > > times becomes truth. It works for a long time as the tobacco industry is > learning > > today. > > Wrong you are a Jew-hating fake whose hidden agenda is the rehabiliation > olf Adolf Shitler. I am not Jew hater, and occasionally defend Jews from anti-Semites, when warranted. On the other hand, yes, my agedna is to defend and bring forward the truth which ferequently = rehabilitation of Hitler. > > > having shown to be ignorant and to have continually misrepresented > nonsense as facts you are reduced to the usual behavior of the denier of > the Holocaust. > > > Indicdentally your evil Adolf Hitler did not some and advocated > abstinence from it > > because German physicians suspected decades before American physicians > that smoking > > causes cancer. > > A simple lie. Will you begin to tell the truth soon. > > > Incidently, ignorant one, cigarettes were known in the US as "coffin > nails" as early as World War I. Journa of the American Medical Association stopped carry advertisment for cigarettes in early 1950's. Such adds woudl state that e.g. Camel is best for the soothing of the sore throat. > > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > > > majority of > > > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, 300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on this subject about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I do not have handy > > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > And now all he wants to do is call names. > > > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > > > evidence of the > > > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. I am too busy to continue, think answeres above give you taste of Yales irresponsibility. Poina > > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust > continually > > > use the > > > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as > evidence > > > that > > > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or > not. > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > > > honest and > > > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding > by > > > the > > > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact > the > > > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > > > therefore, > > > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > > > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > > > without end > > > > > but without beginning. > > > > > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good > reason > > > why the > > > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as > "well > > > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > > > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > Even worse. There having been a demosntration that the fake Pole -- who > claimed to be a "journalist" -- was just regurgitating garbage from a > lunatic web site he ran away. > > The fact is that the garbage that he accepts on blind faith is an insult > to every real Pole, every real German, and every real Jew in the world. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:30 EDT 1999 Article: 689311 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:30:07 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 96 Message-ID: <3814A1AE.24E44388@catskill.net> References: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <19991024120014.12429.00000534@ng-ff1.aol.com> <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> <01bf1e88$929224e0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689311 soc.culture.polish:192007 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net>... > > > > Philip Mathews wrote: > > > > > In >Message-id: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> > > > > > > > > > > >polin polinhis@catskill.net wrote: > > > > > > >British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a > few > > > >years later > > > >in Poland. > > > > > > In other words he had no British hangman as you asserted in your prior > post. Do > > > you believe putting quotation marks around the term changes it from a > falsehood > > > to something truthful? > > > > >Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim > citation > > > >from his > > > >book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! > > > > > > I think this would be better directed to you, since you made the > initial > > > charge. How about it! > > The fake Pole has no answer. Because I am busy I refer you to www.codoh Polina > > > > > >Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric > on the > > > >day of his > > > >transfer to Polish authorities. > > > > What is your evidence for this? > > > His gaunt appereance in the photo. > > But you don't even know when the photo was taken. It was taken when he > was transferred to the US ARMY. > > You continue to make erroneous statements about the most easily researched > of all facts. > > I find that strong evidence that you are just regurgitating the > accusations of lunatic websites without even the ost basic effort to check > facts. > > > > > >Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his > three > > > >year regin > > > >at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > > > Explain how this has anything to do with your charge of torture? > > > Unless forced, people do not generally admit to crimes they did not > pepetrated > > And since he confessed without force (his memoirs written in a Polish > prison), you are apaprently arguing that he was guilty. > > An excellent article by Prof. John Zimmerman on the credibility of the > Hoess memiors which demolishes completely the allegations of the deniers of > the Holocaust can be found on The Holocaust History Project (URL in > signature line). > > > > > Now if you would only stop posting denier propoganda (you and your ilk > are not > > > revisionists, because revisionism is performed by historians)! > > And since "Polina" nows claims to live in Queens, perhaps he will explain > why he is posting from and ISP that does not service that area. See > http://www.catskill.net. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:31 EDT 1999 Article: 689317 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Nuremberg and the Shoa forgotten until 1961>>Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:34:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 83 Message-ID: <3814A2A9.8C322CD8@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <7v036c$n5k$1@hub.org> <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net> <01bf1e97$72931500$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689317 soc.culture.polish:192011 soc.culture.german:142661 soc.culture.russian:159678 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr. Mc Vay, > > > > Many thanks for your response and help. > > > > In 1994-1996 when I was studying Nuremberg trials Yale International Law > > Library did NOT have complete set on their shelves. > > That is not true. They had a complete set of of the published volumes. > > There is a volume of the Green series, which does not concern the IMT > trial which was printed but, apparently, never distributed. > > > For about a decade I am trying to find a set in used book stores in NYC > area > > to no avail. > > Try a good book search. I reccommend Mike Curtis who psots here. > > > Simultaneously I called about 30 nearby libraries asking if > > they still do not have a set in a storage pepared for discarding as "not > > circulating" and also met with no sucess an older librarians told me they > > discarded it decades ago as dust colleting and shelf occupying volumes. > > You're lying. It's in the reference section of every library I've been > in. Reference books do not circulate. > > > > Apperently, our parents and grandparents still remembering propaganda of > the > > Frist world war did not take the Nuremberg trials seriously, as most of > us > > does it today. > > You're lying again. It was front page news. True, to bre red and be forgotten, and American and American Jewry DID forget the holocaust nearly completely until the next SHOW TRIAL of 1961. Polina > > > > One of the librarian told me that the set they had they received free > from > > the Government Printing Office. Since I do not believe eyewitness > testimony > > I would not take her statement as accurate. > > You never talked to a librarian. > > > Many thanks for your work at Nizkor. We and especially I a revisionst > find > > a plethora of useful material at your site. We both see importance of > > putting these material of the internet but differ in their interpretation > > only. > > That's because you lkie a lot. like this: > > > > >I live in Queens, NY > > And post from an ISP which does not servie that area. > > and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > > > >but the most > > > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > > > >basement of the > > > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > Since the NYPL has one, your lie is patent. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:31 EDT 1999 Article: 689319 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC at heart a revisionist>> Good and tough response to an anti-Semite Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:36:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 107 Message-ID: <3814A33B.6DE962D0@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <3813A38B.ABE6C0AE@catskill.net> <3813D2E5.46B435EF@mediaone.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689319 soc.culture.polish:192012 soc.culture.ukrainian:59686 soc.culture.russian:159680 soc.culture.jewish:417960 soc.culture.german:142662 The more higly educated anti-Revisionists we have the better. I am sick to read over and over the vularieties you Jewish anti-revisionists level at us. You might be correct about Danny Karen, I do not think he uses gutter verbiage Polina Richard Phillips wrote: > polin wrote: > > > > Orac who lists himself as a.k.a. David Gorski see bottom of this page is an > > important figure on alt.revisionism > > > > He is perhaps the best educated anti-revisionist being a PhD if I am not > > mistaken and a young surgeon from Chicago area. > > =================================================== > Phillips > > I believe Danny Keren is also a PhD. > > =============================================== > > > > Frequenting recently alt.revisionism I noticed that there are no other so > > erudite anti-revisionists and so civil in their responses as him. > ========================================================== > Phillips > > I would class Eugene Holman as even more so. > > =========================================== > > It is > > unfortunate that lately he resorts to on-liners suffused with adjectives and > > not facts, but responding factualy on internet takes time and him being I > > presume busy, surgeon it has to be excused. > > > > Still I wish to point that Dr. Gorski, paradoxically, is a revisionist at > > heart. The word is out since publication of the book by prof Lipstadt that we > > Jews and Holocaustians do not get into discources or discussions or rebutals > > with revisionists. And virtually every erudite Jew and every academic > > Holocaustian toes the party line. > > ================================================ > Phillips > > Is this a NEW book by Lipstadt? > > ============================================= > > > > Like the Pope they never lower themself to debate with his/their intellectual > > opponents. Only Orac does it ... because he is like the Jewish philosopher > > Spinoza a revisionist at heart. > > > > My restrained admiration to you Orac. > > > > Polina, the perenial revisionist > > > > Orac wrote: > > > > > In article <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Orac : > > > > > > > > >Yes, you definitely don't want to get into e-mail exchanges with > > > > "Polina" > > > > >(a.k.a. Pawlikowski). He has no compunction about posting private > > > > e-mail > > > > >to public Usenet newsgroups. He did it to me once many months ago on > > > > >alt.revisionism. > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest - it doesn't matter. I don't change my mind in private :) > > > > Anyway - thanks. > > > > > > Whether or not you change your mind in private is really not the point, > > > actually. There's the tendency to say things in private e-mail that you > > > wouldn't post to Usenet. At least for me that's true, and it appears to be > > > true for many people, hence my warning to you. Pawlikoski didn't really > > > post anything that embarrassed me, but the principle that private e-mail > > > should not be posted in a public forum without the author's permission was > > > violated, and that ticked me off. > > > > > > Also, Pawlikowski is an unrepentant Holocaust denier and anti-Semite, but > > > you probably already noticed that. > > > > > > > > > > BTW - sorry, off-topic question : do you read my posts in > > > > alt.revisionism? > > > > I'm not able to read this NG and when I send my posts in this thread my > > > > computer "can't convert alt.rev.". Just curious. > > > > > > Yes, I am posting this from alt.revisionism. I do not frequent any of the > > > newsgroups on Subject: header line. > > > > > > -- > > > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > > > a.k.a. | > > > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > > > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:31 EDT 1999 Article: 689324 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!, Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:44:43 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 116 Message-ID: <3814A51A.DEE20C45@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> <01bf1e9f$5617d8e0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689324 soc.culture.polish:192014 soc.culture.ukrainian:59687 soc.culture.german:142665 soc.culture.russian:159684 Dear Yale, How much you would charge for the copy of the 1980s video of Eichmann in which we could see him intermittently and or in spurts continuously pumping his cheek with his tongue, the pathogmonic sign of Tardive Dyskinesia ergo side effect of Thorazine/ If you do not respond to this bid, probably the video was made in such as manner as to take out the moments when he is pumping his cheek. I am ready to pay for the video up to $50.00. Perhaps other revisionists woudl chip in if you jack your price above my maximum. If you do not want to sell let me know if the video is and where available. Polina. "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr. K. > > > > I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. > > > > Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in > order to > > be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now > greatly > > reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. > > Since the actual estimates he gave while under oath and in his memoirs > were quite a bit lower, your theory is nonsense. Had he wished to conform > to the higher estimate he certainly would have done so in his memoirs > written in a Polish prison. Stop arguing, use your scanner and provide the facsimile so readers can see with their own eyes that I am correct. > > > > Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics > and not > > Eichmann and Berlin. > > Bullshit. He was commandmant only for a large portion of the time > Auschwitz was in operation. He was promoted and served elsewhere until > 1944 when he was brought back for the extermiantion of Hungarian Jews. > > Why do you not know this simple fact. > > > He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I > think > > that much is clear. > > Only to you. He was, moreover, a DEFENSE witness when he gave his > testimony. > > > > And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was > apparently > > forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel > in April > > to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust. > > Again, not true. I have a vidoetape of excerpts from the trial made in > the 1980's. > > > When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons: > > > 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against > his cheek > > in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So > far Tardive > > Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling > side > > effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic > drugs, the > > mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry. > > > > Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general > Hryhorenko were > > given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined > well > > psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine. > > And he wasn't. > > > No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort > 'appropriate' > > testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning > Eichmann and > > soviet dissidents into submissive zombies. > > But neither beatings nor torture were used to obtain Hoess' testimony. He > was called as a witness by Ernst Kaltenbrunner. > > > > While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to > testify he > > was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his > captors. > > But he wasn't given thorazine. > > > I hope this explains to you my position correctly. > > Sure. You're a lying fruitloop. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:31 EDT 1999 Article: 689327 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:50:36 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3814A67C.C4A71124@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689327 Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > polin wrote: > > # Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his > # camp in order to be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the > # 4,000,000 which is now greatly reduced by the orthodox holocaustian > # scholars and politicians. > > Here's the funny part, which demonstrates just what a bunch of goofballs > these "revisionists" are. > > In his autobiography - written while in Polish custody - Hoess claimed > that about 1.3 million people were murdered in Auschwitz. Not 4 million. Dear Dr. Keren, Please do not give us your word, please put the English text of Hoess deposition with his signature on a scanner and let readers see with their own eyes the numbers. I do not have scanner. The copy of the page you can get from USHMM. Polina PS If you will not do it in a matter of weeks and much effort I will arrange it > > > Now, the Soviets and the Poles had then suggested a much higher (and > incorrect) figure. Hoess - WHILE IN POLISH/SOVIET CAPTIVITY - not > only denied their figure, but ridiculed it. > > Is this what he would have written, had he been "tortured" into > confirming their version? Of course not. > > Has anyone ever heard about captors "torturing" their prisoner, into > writing something that contradicts their thesis? That mocks it? > > I really don't think so. > > BTW, the Soviets have indeed claimed that 4 million civilians > were murdered in Auschwitz. It was an estimate incorrectly derived, > by assuming that all the cremation furnaces worked continuously. > Western historians, such as Reitlinger and Hilberg, dismissed this > figure many years ago. > > -Danny Keren. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:32 EDT 1999 Article: 689335 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:04:25 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 186 Message-ID: <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689335 soc.culture.polish:192018 soc.culture.german:142671 soc.culture.russian:159690 Astonishing! Below John Morris explains and excuses Nuremberg American Prosecutor, reknown and respected American jourist lies in the International Court of Law! Jaksons mention of vaporizng prisoners with atomic energy implies: 1) that he himself fabricated the story out of a whole cloath, and unlikely proposition and a charge to an honest and impartial American jurist who allegedly have had plethora of authentic incriminating evidence. If so why he resorted to fabrications and ruses??? 2) implies that he heard the story from survivors, was unsure of them and before accusing Speer outright and compromise survivors on the witness stand he tested them in this manner, without prevaricating on his own. 3) since servivors are to be belived (a dictum of Holocaustianity and the basis of the Holocaust) if the second possibility is true, then we must consider it as proven that atom was used for vaporization of humans by the Nazis. If my logic is faulty, please indicate, or perhaps you have some others explanations to make Polina John Morris wrote: > In <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 18:38:41 -0400, polin wrote: > > >"Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > >> polin wrote in article > >> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > >> > My title is self explanatory > > >> And once more displays your ignorance. > > >> The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > >> brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > >1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". It is produced by hydrolysis [break down] > >of animal fat into fatty acids and glycerol and addition of sodium hydroxide and > >forming from the original esters a fatty acid sodium salt. > > >No one invented production of saponyfying agent from human or any protein. > > Nice strawman fallacy, Joseph/Jozef/Joanna/Polina. In fact, you have > just proven that it is possible to make soap from human fat. > > >2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is > >trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not > >used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > >available for interlibrary loans. > > That is no excuse. Fourteen volumes are already available on the web > with more to come: > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > >I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete but the most > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the basement of the > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > That is no excuse. Fourteen volumes are already available on the web > with more to come: > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > >With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this university > >removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate Sterling > >library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. Apparently even > >its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? > > >Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university is the Guttenberg Bible > >on a permanent display in its atomic blast-safe modernistic and beautiful building > >storing ancient manuscripts. Every night the display descends into A-bomb proof > >shelter. > > >Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult and apriori non-productive in a > >court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was abolished and > >affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. > > Then when you finally do read parts of the testimony, you will have a > tough time explaining the cross-examination of all of the defendants > and witnesses. > > >Thus C. Porter found out that the "fact" that Nazis exterminated Jews at Auschwitz > >with atomic bomb has been accepted as proven. > > Absolute nonsense. Robert Jackson used an old lawyer's of indirection > to induce Albert Speer to testify about the Nazi leadership's efforts > to prolong the war needlessly by circulating rumours of new > super-weapons that would turn the tide of a hopeless battle. > > Jackson asks Speer if he ever heard of an experiment in which in which > 20,000 Jews were vap[ourized with an atomic bomb: > > MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you know about that experiment? > > SPEER: No, and I consider it utterly improbable. If we had such a > weapon under preparation, I should have known about it. But we did > not have such a weapon. It is clear that in chemical warfare > attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the > weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party > would start chemical warfare first. > > MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon > were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in > the war? > > SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war. > From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the > front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and > could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people, > were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and > wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without > military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the > secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although > common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that in > the near future this new weapon would arrive. > > It is absurd to suggest that such a thing as vaporizing Jews was > "proved" at Nuremberg. The only things considered proved at Nuremberg > were the charges on the indictment referenced in the Judgment in > Volume I. > > > Thus who should care about nuremberg > >except for most fanatical Holocaustians? > > Obviously you, since you are a know-nothing who believes Carlos > Porter's obvious and stupid lies. > > >Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the human-fat-soap > >hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. > > >In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg there is a > >photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in Cyrylic > >script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. > > >Am I correct about this photograph?? > > You are probably correct about the photograph. It was certainly not > beyond the capabilities of the Soviets to label their exhibits. > > Nevertheless, the evidence was provided to the Soviets by the British > including the depositions of Witton and Neely, two British prisoners > set to work at Danzig. > > Contrary to the Revisionist myth, the Soviets developed almost none of > their own evidence. > > >In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now accepted by > >orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. > > Wrong again. What legitimate historians have recognized almost since > the end of the war is that rumours of mass production of Jewish soap > were in fact rumours invented by camp guards as an additional torment > of their prisoners. > > But the evidence presented at Nuremberg was that Rudolph Spanner of > the Danzig Anatomical Institute tried to find uses for soap which was > manufactured from human fat. > > In 1960, the prosecutors' office in Flensburg declined to charge > Spanner presumably because it was impossible to determine whether he > had set out to manufacture soap or whether it was a natural by-product > of boiling the soft tissue off skeletons intended for use as > anatomical specimens. The process, called maceration, involves > boiling corpses in water and caustic soda (lye), and it naturally > saponifies any fats present. > > The fact nevertheless remains that Spanner attempted to find ways of > making the soap useful. Apparently, it stank horribly. > > So you see, Polina/Josef/Joanna/Liar, you believe the silliest things > that Revisionists tell you, and you dwell on irrelevant idiocies like > "human soap." It's time you learned some real history. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:32 EDT 1999 Article: 689343 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Lack of physical evidence is essential >>>Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:09:11 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 46 Message-ID: <3814AAD6.390A8A49@catskill.net> References: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <19991024120014.12429.00000534@ng-ff1.aol.com> <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689343 soc.culture.polish:192019 Dear Mr. Morris, The princilple of revisionism rests not in Talmudic debates about testimonies but on the contrary on the lack of physical evidence of extermination i.e. forensic, air-photo and toxicological evidence. Were are the bones of the nearly 4,000,000 or 3,000,000 Jews Nazis did not have time to cremate? We found bones of our Polish victims at Katyn, Palmiry, Treblinka I, Miednoje, Kharkiv and Ukrainians at Vinnytsa, Lwow, Bykivnia, Byeolrussians in Kuropaty others in Karelia Any response? Polina John Morris wrote: > In <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 20:09:20 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Philip Mathews wrote: > > [snip] > > Polina-Liar said: > >> >Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three year regin > >> >at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > >> Explain how this has anything to do with your charge of torture? > > >Unless forced, people do not generally admit to crimes they did not pepetrated > > Ah, the old circular argument. The proof that Hoess was tortured is > that the Holocaust is a hoax. The proof that the Holocaust is a hoax > is that Hoess was tortured. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:32 EDT 1999 Article: 689347 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:14:55 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3814AC2F.2E73A95C@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> <01bf1e4b$dd8c4080$579b10cf@default> <7uvjv4$l7f$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> <6TAUOFsMGmCemBMYdz7fa2GOVkTh@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689347 soc.culture.polish:192022 soc.culture.ukrainian:59691 soc.culture.german:142673 soc.culture.russian:159692 Dear Mr Morris, You are correct and you are not telling me anything new about Bruno Gallileo and John tyndal burnt for translating the Bible. But you must understand that I am also a Polish nationalist and for this reason I favor Copernicus who was in service to Polish kings. And as a Pole I will not tell you about Copernicus what is disadvantegeous to our worship of POSITIVE national heros and not sheep going to the slaugher. We think that raising children on martyrology results in columbine massacres vide boy Klebod. You should raise your not on now dehoaxed or demythologized Massada but on Einstein, Golda Meir, generals Dayan and Rubin not on holocaustomania. John Morris wrote: > In <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 18:45:46 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear Grazyna, > > >You also do not know that adjectives belong to poetry and not science. > > >Remember Nicholas Copernicus, the greatest revisionist of all times > > Oh golly, you even got that one wrong Polina-Liar. Copernicus wasn't > persecuted. You're supposed to remember *Galileo* because he was > persecuted for telling the truth. Of course, it wasn't much of a > persecution since eveyone knew that Kepler in Germany and Newton in > England were publishing Galileo's works. Galileo published his last > work under his own name while under house arrest in Italy. > > I have a better suggestion for Revisionists. Remember Giordano Bruno. > He was an exact contemporary of Galileo's who also agreed with > Copernicus. He has the added persecution value in that he was > actually burnt at the stake. > > But, alas, he was burnt at the stake for claiming that God created an > infinite number of populated worlds. A creation co-infinite with its > creator did not sit well with early modern Catholics. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:33 EDT 1999 Article: 689348 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:18:05 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 125 Message-ID: <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> <=DsUOFJ2L8ZOrATg0qODAZzCZO8z@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689348 soc.culture.polish:192023 soc.culture.german:142674 soc.culture.russian:159693 Dear John, You are citing data from yeasterday. I cited availability from 1995. I suspect you will castigate me for not perusing Internet in 1980s or 1970s Have reason Polina John Morris wrote: > In <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> in alt.revisionism, on 24 Oct > 1999 20:29:14 -0400, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > >polin wrote in article > ><38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>... > > [snip] > > >> 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is > >> trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not > >> used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> available for interlibrary loans. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > They are being made available on the Internet. > > > Further more than 10 libraries within a normal drive from my house in > >Allentown PA have copies. > > Just a small point since I already answered "Polina's" excuses, but a > quick look at OCLC reveals the following for the first record > Nuremberg proceedings checked: > > CA CKX CHAPMAN UNIV SCH OF LAW Lender > WV WV9 WEST VIRGINIA UNIV LAW LIBR Lender > > Ah, what the hell. I've got them online and the proxy server loaded > up. > > Second record checked: > > KS KKW WASHBURN UNIV Lender > NJ NJM MONTCLAIR STATE UNIV Lender > PA PBB BLOOMSBURG UNIV Lender > > Gee, that's five interlibrary lenders in the first two records > checked. > > Third record: > > NY NYP NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR Lender > > Ooooo! Not looking too good for OCLC not listing any interlibrary > lenders. And, hey, doesn't "Polina" claim to live in Queens, New York > just across the East River from NYC and the New York Public Library? > > Fourth record: > > CA CKX CHAPMAN UNIV SCH OF LAW Lender > CA CPF PEPPERDINE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > CA WST WESTERN STATE UNIV COL OF LAW Lender > DC DCV CATHOLIC UNIV AMERICA, DUFOUR LAW LIBR Lender > DC DLC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Non-lender > DC LHM US HOLOCAUST MEM MUS Non-lender > FL FBL SAINT THOMAS UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > GA GLL GEORGIA STATE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > IN XND UNIV OF NOTRE DAME, LAW SCH Lender > LA LLT LOYOLA UNIV, LAW SCH Lender > LA LSC SOUTHERN UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > MA HVL HARVARD UNIV LAW SCH LIBR Non-lender > MA NLL NEW ENGLAND SCH OF LAW LIBR Lender > MI ECB THOMAS M COOLEY LAW SCH LIBR Lender > MS MCC MISSISSIPPI COL, LAW LIBR Lender > NC NC# NORTH CAROLINA CENT UNIV, LAW SCH LIBR Lender > NC NDD DUKE UNIV LIBR Lender > NC NDL DUKE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > NC NRC NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIV Lender > NJ STL SETON HALL UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > NY UBK US COURTS LIBR, BROOKLYN Non-lender > NY UCN US COURT OF APPEALS LIBR, 2ND CIRCUIT Non-lender > NY ZNL NEW YORK LAW SCH LIBR Lender > OH OHO SUPREME COURT OF OHIO LAW LIBR Non-lender > VA AVJ US ARMY, JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL'S SCH Non-lender > VA VRL UNIV OF RICHMOND, LAW SCH LIBR Lender > ZZ Y8V DEPARTMENT FOREIGN AFFAIRS LEGAL LIBR Non-lender > ZZ Z@L UNIV STELLENBOSCH, J S GERICKE LIBR Non-lender > > Ouch! Twenty-eight more libraries, eighteen of them indicating that > they will do interlibrary loans of the Nuremberg proceedings. And > look: two of them are in New York City. Well, alright, one's in > Brooklyn, but that's even closer to Queens. > > Just in case anybody thinks I might have mistaken the work in > question, here is the abbreviated record for last item checked: > > TITLE: Trial of the major war criminals before the International > Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945- 1 October > 1946. > PLACE: Buffalo, N.Y. : > PUBLISHER: William S. Hein, > YEAR: 1995 1947 > > I guess that would be yer IMT Blue Series. > > The only question left is whether there is anything at all that > "Polina" *won't* lie about. > > "None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > available for interlibrary loans." > > BWAAAHAHAHAHA! > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:33 EDT 1999 Article: 689350 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:22:40 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 83 Message-ID: <3814AE00.78DD18BA@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689350 soc.culture.polish:192025 soc.culture.ukrainian:59692 soc.culture.german:142676 soc.culture.russian:159696 Thank you Mike! Are you revisionist or exterminationist? Polina Mike Curtis wrote: > polin wrote: > > >Dear Mr. K. > > > >I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. > > > >Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to > >be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly > >reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. > > This is what he testified to doing the above deposition during 1 April > and 2 April 1946. The following conversation came on page 14 during > the 2 April 1946 Deposition while they were talking about Jews: > > Q: But still Auschwitz succeeded in exterminating quite a number, > something like the millions, didn't they? > > A: Yes. > > Q: How many millions? > > A: I again refer back to the statement made to me by Eichmann in March > or April, 1944, when he had to go and report to Reichfuehrer that his > office had turned over two and one-half million to the camp. > > Q: To the Auschwitz area? > > A: Yes.Q: Only in the Auschwitz area? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Two and one-half million, you say? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Are you [sic] you a little confused just now? > > A: The reasons why I remember the number, two and one-half million, is > because it was repeatedly told to me that Auschwitz was to have > exterminated four to five million, but that was not so. We had an > order by the Reichsfuehrer of SS to destroy all materials in numbers > immediately, and not to preserve any records of the executions that > were being carried out. > > Q: The two and one-half million were people delivered to Auschwitz, > were they the ones that were executed? > > A: Executed and exterminated. > > For those who may have missed it I'll explain what is important to the > conversation above. Hoess makes it quite clear where this 2.5 million > figure came from. It came from Eichmann. He hadn't really thought > through for himself just yet. The 1.3 million figure would be his > claim later on in his autobiography. > > Mike Curtis > > From Ambrose Bierce: > > CHRISTIAN, n. > One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin. > > CONVERSATION, n. > A fair to the display of the minor mental commodities, each exhibitor being too intent upon the arrangement of his own wares to observe those of his neighbor. > > Please visit: > > Write to timeagin@flash.net for the Rat Pack LIVE > Show at the 500 Club in Atlantic City in 1962. A 4am > morning show! $19.95 Compact Disc called RAT PACK UNCENSORED > > http://www.jay-mar.com/stores.html > http://www.abebooks.com > http://www.bibliofind.com From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:56 EDT 1999 Article: 191884 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Wolnosc czy zlota klatka? Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:58:37 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 127 Message-ID: <38139D2D.B6FA11B1@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191884 NPJC

Okolo miesiac temu moi mlodzi, zapracowani, zydowscy sasiedzi, z dwojka przemilych zydoweczek postanowili pozybyc sie dwu przemilych i oswojonych krolikow ktore kupili swoim coreczkom na Wielkanoc.

Przyczyna byla te ze choc dziewczynki oswoily kroliki jeden czarny jeden szary, kroliki nie chcialy zalatwiac sie w przeznaczonej dla nich misce czy klatce ale robily to w kacikach pokoi na drogich dywanowych wykladzinach.

Druga przyczyna wydania krolikow bylo to ze mama tak jak we wszystkich mlodych malzenstwach musi pracowac i nie ma czasu na sprzatanie ani bieganie za krolikami i o zgrozo nie ma czasu nawet dla swych dzieci ktorych w czasie wyjazdow na zakupy przywozila do mnie, O Zgrozo ewizjonistki Holokostu (!) do opieki na killka godzin jak ja nie jestem u syna poza miastem.

Placzu bylo co niemiara jak mama dziewczynkom powiedziala ze musza sie krolikow pozbyc.  Ja uratowalam sytuacje zabierajac super klatke  made in California by Sierra Club i kroliki na wies ze soba.  to troche dziewczynki uspokoilo gdy je przekonalam ze na wsi, w gorach, im bedzie lepiej bo beda sobie mogly swobodnie biegac po lace i lesie i ze kazdy raz jak przyjade to im bede opowiadac jak te kroliki sobie zyja.  Zapewnialam ich takze ze w lesie wilkow nie ma a niedzwiedzica ktora tu czasem przychodzi nie bedzie w stanie szybkiego krolika zjesc i  zlapac a najblizsy pies u najblizszego sasiada jest okolo kilometra daleko.

Wyposazono mnie w zapasy zywnosci dla zwierzatek i alfalfa i kamienna sol, i witaminy i brykiety z suszonych jablek i marchwi.  Dziewczynki je nimi tresowaly tymi smakolykami i oswajaly.  Kroliki jechaly na wies ze man na przednim siedzeniu lub siedzialy w drodze pod tylnym oknem.  (Zlota) klatka stala przywiazana na aucie na dachu.  Obie nasze rodziny wspolnie przygotowywaly sie do wyjazdu.  Bagazniki, jak przystalo na overprotective Jewish girls and mother, wypelniony byl po brzegi zapasami jedzenia, dostalam rowniez czasopisma i ksiazki (Zydzi nie moga zyc bez ksiazek i chwala im za to) na temat jak dbac o oswojone kroliki.

Po przyjezdzie zaczelam proby z przystosowaniem krolikow do zycia na wolnosci tak jak obiecalam moim Zydoweczkom, Karen lat 6  and Laura, 8.  Wypuscilam je z klatki w szopie ktora ma wielkie okno na Zachod.  Wypuszczone, oczywiscie natychmiast zaczely zalatwiac sie po kacikach co mi zupelnie nie przeszkadzalo bo podloga jest drewniana ze sklejki.  Bylo czarujacym obserwowac Szarego i Czarnego bo rownie blyskawicznie zrobili sobie parking na parapecie okna ktore wychodzi na zachod w gorach i widziec ich cztery uszy na tle kolorowo  zachodzacego slonca.

Po kilku dniach zaczelam ich wypuszczac na dwor.

Uciechy co niemiara.  Kroliki jak konie tyl;nymi nogami z radosci podskakiwaly w gore.  Zaprzyjaznily sie rowniez z kotka mego syna.  Obwachiwaly sie co kilka minut, nie wiedzac czy to drugi krolik czy to drugi kot. Kotka czaila sie za nimi i udawala ze na nie poluje jak one skubaly trawe i zeschle, opadajace liscie.  Jak kroliczeta do niej podbiegaly ona uciekala .  Kroliki od wiosny nie byly jeszcze dorosle.

Zadziwiajace bylo ze wogole nie byly zainteresowane wiecej ani suszona marchwia ani witaminami ani  suszonymi jablkami ani alfalfa.  Najlepiej wcinaly opadajace liscie z jesionow a potem odrastajaca po suszy trawe.

Jak zlapalam jednego i wsadzilam do klatki na 24 Szary natychmiast poszedl na strajak glodowy w jego (jej?) zlotej klatce.  Polozyl sie na boku, nic nie jadl, galazkami ktore mu wsadzalam do klatki zupelnie sie nie interesowal ... wygladal pol martrwy.  Wiekszosc czasu spal lub lezal na boku nieruchomo z zamknietymi oczyma.  Czas do czasu staral sie wygryzc przez drewniany dach klatki ale poniewaz bylo to beznadziejne znowu popadal w dretwote.  A Czarny/a (?) szalal/a na wolnosci.  Czasem i to rzadko podbiegala pod kaltke w ktorej byl Szary ale Szary byl tak zgnebiony ze i niepodnosil powieki.

Mam do czynienia z ludzmi ktorzy sa chorzy na depresje.  Oczywiscie kroliczeta nie mowia (rowniez malo mowia ludzie cierpiacy na chorobliweprzygnebienie) ale  ludzkie pozy ciala i zachowanie w stanie przygnebienia jest niesamowicie podobne do przygnebienia u krolikow.  Zadne z czasopism ktore dostalam na temat opieki nad krolikami w domu o tym nie pisze.

Nerwowo nie wytrzymalam i wypuscilam Szarego.

Sielanka trwala okolu dwu tygodni.  Jak wracalam od znajomych autem na podworku siedziala i czekala na mnie trojca:  szary dlugi ogon i cztery dlugie ucha: kotka Sirka (po ukrainsku szara) kotka i Siryj (po ukrainsku Szary) i Czarny kroliczeta.

Powiedzialam synowi ze wiecej nie bedziemy musieli najmowac sasiada do koszenia trawy - Siryj i Czarny wyszczypali najsmaczniejsze czubki traw i ziol.  Jak ja ich probowalam zlapac uciechy co niemiara Ja do krolikow a one chodu i podskauja do gory tylnymi lapami zadowolone ze mi sie starej to nie udaje.  W czworke chodzilismy na spacery do lasu. Z przodu Siryj i Czarny z tlu czas do czasu dobiegala do na Sira kotka. Ja jak przystalo na starsza matrone po srodku.

Nie wiem skad pochodzily kroliczeta z Polski czy z Izraela ale napewno nie byly amerykanskie.  Zadnego amerykanskiego jedzenia dla krolikow nie chcialy sie dotknac wiecej ani do soli ani do witamin ani do suszonej alfala, przysmakow ktore byly dla nimi w Queens.

Natomiast tu w gorach na wsi zajadaly i jadly z reki suszone begels z Cohen Bakery ukrainskiego Zyda (jego wypieki to smakolyki takze dla ludzi).

Sielanka trwala przez dwa tygodnie.  Kroliczeta spaly pomiedzy deskami pod szopa i ani mowy nie bylo zeby wchodzily do Zlotej Klatki made by Sierra Club.

Jednej nocy zrobila na nas napad rodzina opopsow praczy racoon.  Szum pod szopka mnie zbudzil o drugiej w nocy.  Rano nie bylo Siroho.

Mimo niebezpieczenstwa Czarny nie dawal mi sie wiecej zlapac.  Nie bylam go w stanie chowac na noc do klatki a on sam do niej nie wchodzil.  Przez tydzien biegal samotnie po trawniku i bawil sie z Sirka.  Oznak zaloby tak charakterystycznej dla nas ludzi nie zdolalam zauwazyc ani u Sirki ani u Czarnego.

To tylko mnie bylo przykro.
 

Cztery dni pozniej oposy pracze, mama i troje doroslych dzieci nie daly za wygrana.  Znowu odbyl sie szum pod szopka.  Na drugi dzien rano nie stalo Czarnego.

Obecnie kotka Sirka wlazla mi na piersi i domaga sie ryby z konserwy albo bym sie z nia bawila.  Jak byly kroliczeta, mna sie nie interesowala.

Po tej dlugiej historii pozostaja dwa pytania:

Czy dawac wolnosc i pewna smierc milym lecz niezbyt madrym kroliczetom czy trzymac je w zlotej klatce???

Czy dawac wolnosc glupim ludziom skazujac ich na to ze w pobliskim wiezieniu jest okolo 80% czarnych mlodych mezczyzn czy utrzymywac ich w ryzach i niewolnictwie dajac im dobre jedzenie i opieke lekarska i mieszkanie tak jak to robili wlasciciele niewolnikow w poludniowych stanach?

Lub co robic z umyslowo uposledzonymi lub samobojcami.  Czy ratowac ich przed smiercia czy nie?.  Moja kuzynka w Polsce lekarz pediatrii, lat 43 popelnila trzecia skuteczna probe samobojstwa w lipcu po rozwodzie w kwietniu.

Do tej pory nic na temat kroliczat nie powiedzialam moim sasiadkom Zydoweczkom Laurze i Karen.  Czy mam dalej klamac tzn unikac ich i nic im nie mowic czy powiedziec ze ich ulubionych kroliczat juz nie ma?

Niemowienie prawdy jest zasadniczo klamstwem.  Rowniez nie powtarzanie kalmstwa jest kalmstwem.  Na przyklad, w swych wielotomowych wspomnieniach z przebiegu DWS De Gaul , Gen Eisenhower i Churchill ani jednym slowem nic nie napisali o gazowaniu Zydow.  Czy milczeli dlatego ze pamietali propagande (bujdy) na temat 'holocaust' 6,000,000  Zydow w Polsce i na ukrainie wypisywane w prasie w czasie Pierwszej Wojny??

Milczec trudno i mowic trudno i co robic w przyszlosci jesli zdecyduje zeby tu u syna miec do towarzystwa dla siebie i dla samotnej Sirki parke krolikow???

Kupic jej kota?? A kto bedzie wychowywal kocieta??
 
  From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:56 EDT 1999 Article: 191885 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:09:20 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 143 Message-ID: <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> References: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <19991024120014.12429.00000534@ng-ff1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689092 soc.culture.polish:191885 Philip Mathews wrote: > In >Message-id: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> > > > > >polin polinhis@catskill.net wrote: > > >British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a few > >years later > >in Poland. > > In other words he had no British hangman as you asserted in your prior post. Do > you believe putting quotation marks around the term changes it from a falsehood > to something truthful? > > > > >Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim citation > >from his > >book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! > > I think this would be better directed to you, since you made the initial > charge. How about it! > > > > >Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric on the > >day of his > >transfer to Polish authorities. > > What is your evidence for this? His gaunt appereance in the photo. > > > > > >Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three > >year regin > >at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > Explain how this has anything to do with your charge of torture? Unless forced, people do not generally admit to crimes they did not pepetrated > > > > > >I would like to respect you as an honest exterminationist. If you have no > >good > >contra-argument admit to it. To some questions posed by you we revisionists > >do not > >have (hopefully as yet) good answeres and we admit to it e.g. why 50% of > >Polish > >priests died at Dachau while none of Ukrainian or Lithuanian priests. > > Now if you would only stop posting denier propoganda (you and your ilk are not > revisionists, because revisionism is performed by historians)! > > Philip Mathews > > > > >Polina > > > >Polina > > > > > >"Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > >> polin wrote in article > >> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net>... > >> > >> > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > >> > > >> > > polin wrote in article > >> > > <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net>... > >> > >> > > > who cares about [extorted] testimonies obtained > >> > > > during Nuremberg trials? > >> > > > >> > > Anybody interested in the history of the period. > >> > > > >> > > But since you claim otherwise, please name a single prosecution > >> witness > >> > > whose testimony was "extorted" > >> > >> > The British hangman and the interrogator of R. Hoess claimed in his > >> recent book > >> > that he was tortured. > >> > >> First, that is incorrect. The statement was made that when Hoess > >denied > >> his identity he was struck in the face. The interrogator then went on to > >> state that to get his statement they got Hoess drunk and kept him drunk. > >> This was confirmed by Hoess' memoirs. Pictures of Hoess exist when he was > >> transferred to the American army less than a week after his "bveating." > >> His face is unmarked. > >> > >> Second, the "British hangman" made no such statement because he > >does not > >> exist. After his testimony at Nuremberg Hoess was, pursuant to the Lonodn > >> accord, transferred to Poland the the site of his crimes. He was held in a > >> Polish prison, tried by a Polish court, and hanged by a Polish executioner. > >> > >> Third, Hoess was a not a witness for the presecution. Hoess was a > >DEFENSE > >> witness called by Dr. Kurt Kaufmann who represented Ernst Kaltenbrunner to > >> give testimony that was supposed to exonerate his client. > >> > >> I am amazed that anyone claiming to be a "researcher" on these > >trial would > >> not know these simple facts. > >> > >> > > or a signle document named in the analysis > >> > > of the nazi war against Christianity which was not proved to be > >> authentic. > >> > >> > The above is incomprehensible to me. > >> > >> Then let me make it simple. Evidence was presented at Nuremberg > >about the > >> persecution of Christian churchmen, both Catholic and Protestant. The > >> evidence, as with most of the evidence at Nuremberg, was documentary in > >> nature. You have claimed that forged documents were used to prove these > >> crimes. > >> > >> NAME THEM!!!! > >> > >> > >> --YFE > >> > >> The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > >> The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > >> The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > >> The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ > > > > > > > > "Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even supposing > knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be content to be ignorant > than would take even a little trouble to acquire it." Samuel Johnson From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:56 EDT 1999 Article: 191890 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC at heart a revisionist>> Good and tough response to an anti-Semite Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:25:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 70 Message-ID: <3813A38B.ABE6C0AE@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689096 soc.culture.polish:191890 soc.culture.ukrainian:59642 soc.culture.russian:159576 soc.culture.jewish:417784 soc.culture.german:142571 Orac who lists himself as a.k.a. David Gorski see bottom of this page is an important figure on alt.revisionism He is perhaps the best educated anti-revisionist being a PhD if I am not mistaken and a young surgeon from Chicago area. Frequenting recently alt.revisionism I noticed that there are no other so erudite anti-revisionists and so civil in their responses as him. It is unfortunate that lately he resorts to on-liners suffused with adjectives and not facts, but responding factualy on internet takes time and him being I presume busy, surgeon it has to be excused. Still I wish to point that Dr. Gorski, paradoxically, is a revisionist at heart. The word is out since publication of the book by prof Lipstadt that we Jews and Holocaustians do not get into discources or discussions or rebutals with revisionists. And virtually every erudite Jew and every academic Holocaustian toes the party line. Like the Pope they never lower themself to debate with his/their intellectual opponents. Only Orac does it ... because he is like the Jewish philosopher Spinoza a revisionist at heart. My restrained admiration to you Orac. Polina, the perenial revisionist Orac wrote: > In article <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > wrote: > > > Orac : > > > > >Yes, you definitely don't want to get into e-mail exchanges with > > "Polina" > > >(a.k.a. Pawlikowski). He has no compunction about posting private > > e-mail > > >to public Usenet newsgroups. He did it to me once many months ago on > > >alt.revisionism. > > > > > > To be honest - it doesn't matter. I don't change my mind in private :) > > Anyway - thanks. > > Whether or not you change your mind in private is really not the point, > actually. There's the tendency to say things in private e-mail that you > wouldn't post to Usenet. At least for me that's true, and it appears to be > true for many people, hence my warning to you. Pawlikoski didn't really > post anything that embarrassed me, but the principle that private e-mail > should not be posted in a public forum without the author's permission was > violated, and that ticked me off. > > Also, Pawlikowski is an unrepentant Holocaust denier and anti-Semite, but > you probably already noticed that. > > > > BTW - sorry, off-topic question : do you read my posts in > > alt.revisionism? > > I'm not able to read this NG and when I send my posts in this thread my > > computer "can't convert alt.rev.". Just curious. > > Yes, I am posting this from alt.revisionism. I do not frequent any of the > newsgroups on Subject: header line. > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:56 EDT 1999 Article: 191913 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:35:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 95 Message-ID: <3813C20B.7DB921D7@catskill.net> References: <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <19991024185629.01526.00000761@ng-fp1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:191913 soc.culture.ukrainian:59646 PONIECKA wrote: > "Polina Borowska" wrote: > > >Volodymyr Katylnyckyj, 43, > >victim of Polyo, assasinated in Kyiv two years ago for publicizing the Soviet > >hoax of the Babi Yar. > > Why are you writing with an Ukrainian accent? > > PONIECKA There are three general reasons and perhaps one personal. 3) Jewish anti-Polonism is hardly less viscious as anti-Ukrainianism, this is an emotional reason. Thus we should jointly fight it, to be more effective. 2) Both holocausts, each of 6,000,000 Jews allegedly took place in Poland and Ukraine this is a historical reason that we have to discuss these matters in the context of each other 1) Political reason: free Poland without friendship and free Ukraine can not exist in Europe between United Germany and still strong Russia. Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe provided 20% to the USSR and 40% of GNP. Ukraine is an industrial powerhouse of Europe although presently (temporarily) depressed. Ukraine's enormous material resources and intellectual rescources can not be suppresses for long (Soviet space effort stemed from Ukraine and the father of the soviet sputnik was an Ukrainian Serhij Koroloev an Ukrainian Verner von Brown.) Thanks God that the Jewish leaders of Poland (Kwasniewski, Geremek) understand that and appear as patriotic as their predecessors who gave life for Poland Wiktor Ehrlich and Henryk Adler, pre-war Jewish Bund (socialist) leaders who were killed in 1942 by their Jewish "co-religionists" from the NKVD in Moscow's or Kujbyshev prison. 4) psychiatric reason: bombarded incessantly by the Jewish martyrologic holocaustomania, we created a myth of our own miniholocaust allegedly comited on us by Ukrainians. For example we believe that Ukrainian partisants disemboweled pregnant Polish women and saw back into their empty uteri a rabits, or that Ukrainians would insert a rats in Polish vaginas who would burrow themself out through Polish women breast or that Ukrainians curcified on fences Polish priests or bundled Polish children to a roadside trees like a bunch of an apples or a strawmans. This physically impossilble and psychologically psychotic martyrologic imagery and ideations are implanted on the minds of our children and were implanted in my mind by various sick and collaborating with the communists crypto-Jews in Poland like prosecutor Jacek Wilczur, prof Edward Prus, Aleksander Korman, M. Gerhard and others. Such imagery results in criminality in our children like the one in Columbine school in Colorado. In Poland shootings are not possible because no access to firearms. One of the Columbine perpetrators was a rich Jewish boy Keybold fixed on Nazis and the Holocaust. We must not placidly submit ourself to this holocaustian pathologic nonsense directed by us on Ukrainians who fought with us for a time for their freedom. Eventually Armia Krajowa - WiN fought soviets jointly with UPA. We have to gert rid of ourself of our own especially Volynians group fantasies of martyrdom. Or history and education was always fixed on heroic and positive role models and not on the sheep going to the gas chambers. Moreover, we as Poles are guilty of occasional atrocity perpetrated on us by Ukrainains in Kresy. Polish Government in Exile issued a nigardly directive to Armia Krajowa to conduct mititary activity against Germans only on Kresy in order to avoid German reprisals on Polish populace! Thus we fought Germans in Lithuania and Wolyn and Galicia in actions like Wachlarz and Burza but not in Lodz, Lublin Krakow or Poznan and Warszawa until summer of 1944. This was hardly a rycerskosc (chivalary) of the Polish Government. 5) Finally and perhaps least importantly I stress Ukrainan points because my husband happened to be Ukrainian and he happened to contribute more time and $$ to the Polish causes that great majority of Poles including my brother. He understood that without free Poland there will be no free Ukraine in Europe. I hope this answers your pointed question and you are free to distribute this answer to others. Polina Borowska PS Why do I not suffer a verbal abuse from you like from other Poles Jews or Ukrainians. How come you can rationally read material which fly into face and oppose your ideas? You must be as crazy as Polina by the standars of most of the people reading and responding to these lines. Congratulations, Mrs Poniecka. You are in the 0.5 percentile of individuals who think instead respond with mental knee jerks. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:57 EDT 1999 Article: 191915 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:49:01 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 66 Message-ID: <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <7v036c$n5k$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689133 soc.culture.polish:191915 soc.culture.german:142583 soc.culture.russian:159591 Dear Mr. Mc Vay, Many thanks for your response and help. In 1994-1996 when I was studying Nuremberg trials Yale International Law Library did NOT have complete set on their shelves. Perhaps since they obtained missing volumes. I will certainly refer to Avalon web project! Thank you for pointing me in this direction. For about a decade I am trying to find a set in used book stores in NYC area to no avail. Simultaneously I called about 30 nearby libraries asking if they still do not have a set in a storage pepared for discarding as "not circulating" and also met with no sucess an older librarians told me they discarded it decades ago as dust colleting and shelf occupying volumes. Apperently, our parents and grandparents still remembering propaganda of the Frist world war did not take the Nuremberg trials seriously, as most of us does it today. One of the librarian told me that the set they had they received free from the Government Printing Office. Since I do not believe eyewitness testimony I would not take her statement as accurate. Many thanks for your work at Nizkor. We and especially I a revisionst find a plethora of useful material at your site. We both see importance of putting these material of the internet but differ in their interpretation only. Sincerely, Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > >but the most > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > >basement of the > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > Yale Law has a complete set - see their Avalon Project on the web. > Several other sites on the web are transcribing the transcripts from > the first trial, including the Avalon and Nizkor Projects. Nizkor will > be finished within 12 months, barring unforeseen problems. > > Complete sets are also available through used book stores and rare > book dealers - I found a complete British set for sale on the web in > 1997, and bought it. > > It is also available on CDROM, but the copy I purchased is so full of > errors as to be totally unreliable for anything other than an index > for the hard copy - that's the Aristarchus disk, but don't waste your > money if you want the transcripts for anything more serious than > indexing. > > Try looking a little more diligently, and you will find it. > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:57 EDT 1999 Article: 191917 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 88 Message-ID: <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689142 soc.culture.polish:191917 soc.culture.ukrainian:59648 soc.culture.german:142586 soc.culture.russian:159592 Dear Mr. K. I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics and not Eichmann and Berlin. He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I think that much is clear. In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying "once a laiar always a lair", unless proven otherwise. More interesting is why Eichmann "lied" on the witness stand in Jerusalem or in interogation room. Eichmnann trial was the first to be ever videotaped, then on 35 mm wide videorecording tape. His still photos int the glass booth and snippets from newsreel cameras from his show trial were reproduced over and over the world over. But the incriminating videotape was embargoed and locked up for near fortry years. And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was apparently forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel in April to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust. When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons: 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against his cheek in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So far Tardive Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling side effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic drugs, the mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry. Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general Hryhorenko were given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined well psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine. No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort 'appropriate' testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning Eichmann and soviet dissidents into submissive zombies. While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to testify he was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his captors. I hope this explains to you my position correctly. I do welcome civil responses to my e-mail which I will not publish on the Internet as inssinuated by ORAC. Greetings from Polina and God Bless you. Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > http://www.nizkor.org > > In article <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and > >being part of > >Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000 > >plus 500,000 > >victims who died due to disease and privation. > > > >It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of > >Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to > >know how may > >victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number > >to Berlin not > >vice versa. > > Other than your feeling - i.e. that something someone said was/is > "preposterous" - do you have any evidence that Hoess lied? Do you have > any evidence that Eichmann lied? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:57 EDT 1999 Article: 192003 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:18:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 222 Message-ID: <38149F0A.13DC48BE@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689307 soc.culture.polish:192003 soc.culture.german:142651 soc.culture.russian:159673 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>... > > > > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > > > My title is self explanatory > > > > > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > > > > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human > flesh was > > > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > > 1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". > > Wrong. Soap is routinely made from animal fat. In my comprehension "flesh" = meat and fat is not "flesh". English is a living language and is used variously by different people. In earlier postings of two days ago I explained the chemistry of production of fat by hydrolysis of the fatty acids - glycerol esters (animial fat) and creation of faty acid + sodium hydroxide a water soluble fat. From 1945-1947 while I was growing up as a little girl in a Polish village all the soap we used was made at home because it was not available in the village store. The chemistry of this process I learned in the sixth grade. Do not trust me that I cite this "scholastic" knowledge, about 50 years old exactly. Do not trust me as an eyewitness or any eyewitness unless mine and their testimony is proven by physical evidence. > > > I have frequently done so using recipes from the 18th century. I knew that we have something in common > > > > 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings > is > > trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they > were not > > used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the > OCLC have them > > available for interlibrary loans. > > They are being made available on the Internet. According to yesterday communication - posting of K. Mc Vay they are being made so still not available in entirety. Dont you read his posts??? > > > Further more than 10 libraries within a normal drive from my house in > Allentown PA have copies. Please, PLEASE give it to me their names by e mail so I might call each of them and convince them to sell to me their dust-collecting and space occupying volumes. Do not post their names on Internet because other Revisionists might outbid me! After I call them all of them then you can and should list them on the Net. > > > > I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > but the most > > complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > basement of the > > obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > A copy is in the New York Public Library. The Columbia School of Law has > a copy as well. You will find that both the Red and Blue series (I'm sure > you know what they are since you're an expert on them) are both complete. > There is a volume of the Green Series missing from both collections. Thus even in NYC ivory towers the sets are incomplete. I missed the point that I wrote "which were most accessible to me." Due to my physical disability I can not travel by subways to Manhattan. Moreover, if I drive alone I have to use nearby parking which costs up to $19.00 per hour. I can not aford this. It is less expensive for me to drive to 60 miles to New Haven than to 5 miles to nearby Manhattan. I am astonished that poor and punny Allentown PA area libraries have Nuremberg proceedings. On the way to New Haven the weathiest public library in the world, the Greenwich Public Library (just two years ago they received $13,000,000 from the heiress of the American Tabacco Co, the largest single donor bequest received by a library in America) does not have the Preoceedings, discarded long time ago. 15 miles further up on the Interstate 95 there is a public library with the highest expenditure per person for new book ( about $22,00) in America combined with the highest lending rate of books per person per year. This is the Darien Public Library. Darien is a small NYC bedroom community of about 20,000 individuals which while it discarded its Nurmeberg Proceedings it holds on its shelfs about 40 copies of the [adultered] allegedly authentic Diary of Ann Frank. The community whith the highest readership in the country was not interested in the Nuremberg proceedings, dear Yale. > > > > With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this > university > > removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate > Sterling > > library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. > Apparently even > > its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? > > And they really hid it from the public by putting it on their Internet > site. You are using Talmudic methods Yale. Note that the question was WHY and I am refering to the availability between 1950-1995. In that era there was no Internet! You are heroically trying to weasel out of difficult questions with resonses to questions not asked. > > > Why are you lying again. The above deserves no comment. > > > > Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university > > It is no more a Jewish university than you are a loyal Pole. Which is not > at all. Call the Dean and ask him, look at the last names of students and academia (proffessors). Granted, half of the students do not look Jewish as about 15% of them are Oriental and 5% Black. Most importantly todays Jewish youth does not look Jewish due to miscegenation like Hilary Clinton or Edgar Bronfman, but look at her daughter or Hilary brothers ... "pure" Asheknazim from Przemysl, Della [Bella] Murray's home town (Hilary's grandma). > > > > Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult > > Only if you are stupid to find a copy. I think that the readers will evaluate my efforts at finding the Proceedings differently, than you Yale. I do have work to be done. I have no time to continue. I think from my writing is clear who is correct and who is devoid of reasonable arguments and angry. I am signing off, Polina > > > > and apriori non-productive in a > > court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was > abolished > > A lie. There was no limit on cross-examination. > > >and > > affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. > > Another lie from the fake Pole. Affidavits were used only where the > witness was unavailable or dead. There is no instance where the affidavit > of an available witness was used. There is only one affidavit that was > crucila to the decision. That was the affidavit of Chester Nimitz which > was used to ACQUIT Doenitz. > > > Thus C. Porter found > > C. Porter is a notorious liar and incompetent. Please see my article on > how he couldn't even cut and paste accurate quotations on The Holocaust > History Project. > > > Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the > human-fat-soap > > hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. > > I think you are crazy as a loon. Now go and do some research. > > > In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg > there is a > > photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in > Cyrylic > > script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. > > Exhibits intended for use at Nuremberg were given numbers. > > Give the number of this exhibit so that others may find it. > > > Am I correct about this photograph?? > > I've never seen it. And unlike you I have had access to the original > exhibits. > > > In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now > accepted by > > orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. > > You are a liar. > > Please name a single historian who states that the evidence accepted by > the IMT and made part of their judgment is either fake or fabricated. > > For an "independent journalist" you are an incompetent and dishonest > researcher. Rather than trying to find out facts you mindlessly repeat the > garbage found on websites maintained by the lunatic fringe. You are so > incompetent as a researcher that you could not even locate a set of books > in a library a ten minute subway ride from where you live. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:57 EDT 1999 Article: 192005 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:28:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 159 Message-ID: <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689309 soc.culture.polish:192005 soc.culture.german:142657 soc.culture.russian:159676 You are partially correct Yale, read below, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net>... > > Dear Yale, > > > You are using Madison Ave technique of asdvertising that falsity repeated > 1,000 > > times becomes truth. It works for a long time as the tobacco industry is > learning > > today. > > Wrong you are a Jew-hating fake whose hidden agenda is the rehabiliation > olf Adolf Shitler. I am not Jew hater, and occasionally defend Jews from anti-Semites, when warranted. On the other hand, yes, my agedna is to defend and bring forward the truth which ferequently = rehabilitation of Hitler. > > > having shown to be ignorant and to have continually misrepresented > nonsense as facts you are reduced to the usual behavior of the denier of > the Holocaust. > > > Indicdentally your evil Adolf Hitler did not some and advocated > abstinence from it > > because German physicians suspected decades before American physicians > that smoking > > causes cancer. > > A simple lie. Will you begin to tell the truth soon. > > > Incidently, ignorant one, cigarettes were known in the US as "coffin > nails" as early as World War I. Journa of the American Medical Association stopped carry advertisment for cigarettes in early 1950's. Such adds woudl state that e.g. Camel is best for the soothing of the sore throat. > > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > > > majority of > > > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, 300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on this subject about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I do not have handy > > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > And now all he wants to do is call names. > > > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > > > evidence of the > > > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. I am too busy to continue, think answeres above give you taste of Yales irresponsibility. Poina > > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust > continually > > > use the > > > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as > evidence > > > that > > > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or > not. > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > > > honest and > > > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding > by > > > the > > > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact > the > > > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > > > therefore, > > > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > > > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > > > without end > > > > > but without beginning. > > > > > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good > reason > > > why the > > > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as > "well > > > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > > > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > Even worse. There having been a demosntration that the fake Pole -- who > claimed to be a "journalist" -- was just regurgitating garbage from a > lunatic web site he ran away. > > The fact is that the garbage that he accepts on blind faith is an insult > to every real Pole, every real German, and every real Jew in the world. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:58 EDT 1999 Article: 192007 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:30:07 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 96 Message-ID: <3814A1AE.24E44388@catskill.net> References: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <19991024120014.12429.00000534@ng-ff1.aol.com> <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> <01bf1e88$929224e0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689311 soc.culture.polish:192007 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net>... > > > > Philip Mathews wrote: > > > > > In >Message-id: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> > > > > > > > > > > >polin polinhis@catskill.net wrote: > > > > > > >British hangman should be in quotation marks since Hess was hanged a > few > > > >years later > > > >in Poland. > > > > > > In other words he had no British hangman as you asserted in your prior > post. Do > > > you believe putting quotation marks around the term changes it from a > falsehood > > > to something truthful? > > > > >Do not prevaricate and disinforme with it readesrs but give verbatim > citation > > > >from his > > > >book admitting to toruturing Hoess!! > > > > > > I think this would be better directed to you, since you made the > initial > > > charge. How about it! > > The fake Pole has no answer. Because I am busy I refer you to www.codoh Polina > > > > > >Do not misrepresent picture of handcuffed Hoess who looked cadaveric > on the > > > >day of his > > > >transfer to Polish authorities. > > > > What is your evidence for this? > > > His gaunt appereance in the photo. > > But you don't even know when the photo was taken. It was taken when he > was transferred to the US ARMY. > > You continue to make erroneous statements about the most easily researched > of all facts. > > I find that strong evidence that you are just regurgitating the > accusations of lunatic websites without even the ost basic effort to check > facts. > > > > > >Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his > three > > > >year regin > > > >at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > > > Explain how this has anything to do with your charge of torture? > > > Unless forced, people do not generally admit to crimes they did not > pepetrated > > And since he confessed without force (his memoirs written in a Polish > prison), you are apaprently arguing that he was guilty. > > An excellent article by Prof. John Zimmerman on the credibility of the > Hoess memiors which demolishes completely the allegations of the deniers of > the Holocaust can be found on The Holocaust History Project (URL in > signature line). > > > > > Now if you would only stop posting denier propoganda (you and your ilk > are not > > > revisionists, because revisionism is performed by historians)! > > And since "Polina" nows claims to live in Queens, perhaps he will explain > why he is posting from and ISP that does not service that area. See > http://www.catskill.net. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:58 EDT 1999 Article: 192011 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Nuremberg and the Shoa forgotten until 1961>>Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:34:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 83 Message-ID: <3814A2A9.8C322CD8@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <7v036c$n5k$1@hub.org> <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net> <01bf1e97$72931500$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689317 soc.culture.polish:192011 soc.culture.german:142661 soc.culture.russian:159678 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr. Mc Vay, > > > > Many thanks for your response and help. > > > > In 1994-1996 when I was studying Nuremberg trials Yale International Law > > Library did NOT have complete set on their shelves. > > That is not true. They had a complete set of of the published volumes. > > There is a volume of the Green series, which does not concern the IMT > trial which was printed but, apparently, never distributed. > > > For about a decade I am trying to find a set in used book stores in NYC > area > > to no avail. > > Try a good book search. I reccommend Mike Curtis who psots here. > > > Simultaneously I called about 30 nearby libraries asking if > > they still do not have a set in a storage pepared for discarding as "not > > circulating" and also met with no sucess an older librarians told me they > > discarded it decades ago as dust colleting and shelf occupying volumes. > > You're lying. It's in the reference section of every library I've been > in. Reference books do not circulate. > > > > Apperently, our parents and grandparents still remembering propaganda of > the > > Frist world war did not take the Nuremberg trials seriously, as most of > us > > does it today. > > You're lying again. It was front page news. True, to bre red and be forgotten, and American and American Jewry DID forget the holocaust nearly completely until the next SHOW TRIAL of 1961. Polina > > > > One of the librarian told me that the set they had they received free > from > > the Government Printing Office. Since I do not believe eyewitness > testimony > > I would not take her statement as accurate. > > You never talked to a librarian. > > > Many thanks for your work at Nizkor. We and especially I a revisionst > find > > a plethora of useful material at your site. We both see importance of > > putting these material of the internet but differ in their interpretation > > only. > > That's because you lkie a lot. like this: > > > > >I live in Queens, NY > > And post from an ISP which does not servie that area. > > and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > > > >but the most > > > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > > > >basement of the > > > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > Since the NYPL has one, your lie is patent. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:58 EDT 1999 Article: 192012 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC at heart a revisionist>> Good and tough response to an anti-Semite Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:36:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 107 Message-ID: <3814A33B.6DE962D0@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <3813A38B.ABE6C0AE@catskill.net> <3813D2E5.46B435EF@mediaone.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689319 soc.culture.polish:192012 soc.culture.ukrainian:59686 soc.culture.russian:159680 soc.culture.jewish:417960 soc.culture.german:142662 The more higly educated anti-Revisionists we have the better. I am sick to read over and over the vularieties you Jewish anti-revisionists level at us. You might be correct about Danny Karen, I do not think he uses gutter verbiage Polina Richard Phillips wrote: > polin wrote: > > > > Orac who lists himself as a.k.a. David Gorski see bottom of this page is an > > important figure on alt.revisionism > > > > He is perhaps the best educated anti-revisionist being a PhD if I am not > > mistaken and a young surgeon from Chicago area. > > =================================================== > Phillips > > I believe Danny Keren is also a PhD. > > =============================================== > > > > Frequenting recently alt.revisionism I noticed that there are no other so > > erudite anti-revisionists and so civil in their responses as him. > ========================================================== > Phillips > > I would class Eugene Holman as even more so. > > =========================================== > > It is > > unfortunate that lately he resorts to on-liners suffused with adjectives and > > not facts, but responding factualy on internet takes time and him being I > > presume busy, surgeon it has to be excused. > > > > Still I wish to point that Dr. Gorski, paradoxically, is a revisionist at > > heart. The word is out since publication of the book by prof Lipstadt that we > > Jews and Holocaustians do not get into discources or discussions or rebutals > > with revisionists. And virtually every erudite Jew and every academic > > Holocaustian toes the party line. > > ================================================ > Phillips > > Is this a NEW book by Lipstadt? > > ============================================= > > > > Like the Pope they never lower themself to debate with his/their intellectual > > opponents. Only Orac does it ... because he is like the Jewish philosopher > > Spinoza a revisionist at heart. > > > > My restrained admiration to you Orac. > > > > Polina, the perenial revisionist > > > > Orac wrote: > > > > > In article <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Orac : > > > > > > > > >Yes, you definitely don't want to get into e-mail exchanges with > > > > "Polina" > > > > >(a.k.a. Pawlikowski). He has no compunction about posting private > > > > e-mail > > > > >to public Usenet newsgroups. He did it to me once many months ago on > > > > >alt.revisionism. > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest - it doesn't matter. I don't change my mind in private :) > > > > Anyway - thanks. > > > > > > Whether or not you change your mind in private is really not the point, > > > actually. There's the tendency to say things in private e-mail that you > > > wouldn't post to Usenet. At least for me that's true, and it appears to be > > > true for many people, hence my warning to you. Pawlikoski didn't really > > > post anything that embarrassed me, but the principle that private e-mail > > > should not be posted in a public forum without the author's permission was > > > violated, and that ticked me off. > > > > > > Also, Pawlikowski is an unrepentant Holocaust denier and anti-Semite, but > > > you probably already noticed that. > > > > > > > > > > BTW - sorry, off-topic question : do you read my posts in > > > > alt.revisionism? > > > > I'm not able to read this NG and when I send my posts in this thread my > > > > computer "can't convert alt.rev.". Just curious. > > > > > > Yes, I am posting this from alt.revisionism. I do not frequent any of the > > > newsgroups on Subject: header line. > > > > > > -- > > > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > > > a.k.a. | > > > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > > > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:58 EDT 1999 Article: 192014 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!, Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:44:43 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 116 Message-ID: <3814A51A.DEE20C45@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> <01bf1e9f$5617d8e0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689324 soc.culture.polish:192014 soc.culture.ukrainian:59687 soc.culture.german:142665 soc.culture.russian:159684 Dear Yale, How much you would charge for the copy of the 1980s video of Eichmann in which we could see him intermittently and or in spurts continuously pumping his cheek with his tongue, the pathogmonic sign of Tardive Dyskinesia ergo side effect of Thorazine/ If you do not respond to this bid, probably the video was made in such as manner as to take out the moments when he is pumping his cheek. I am ready to pay for the video up to $50.00. Perhaps other revisionists woudl chip in if you jack your price above my maximum. If you do not want to sell let me know if the video is and where available. Polina. "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr. K. > > > > I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. > > > > Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in > order to > > be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now > greatly > > reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. > > Since the actual estimates he gave while under oath and in his memoirs > were quite a bit lower, your theory is nonsense. Had he wished to conform > to the higher estimate he certainly would have done so in his memoirs > written in a Polish prison. Stop arguing, use your scanner and provide the facsimile so readers can see with their own eyes that I am correct. > > > > Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics > and not > > Eichmann and Berlin. > > Bullshit. He was commandmant only for a large portion of the time > Auschwitz was in operation. He was promoted and served elsewhere until > 1944 when he was brought back for the extermiantion of Hungarian Jews. > > Why do you not know this simple fact. > > > He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I > think > > that much is clear. > > Only to you. He was, moreover, a DEFENSE witness when he gave his > testimony. > > > > And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was > apparently > > forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel > in April > > to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust. > > Again, not true. I have a vidoetape of excerpts from the trial made in > the 1980's. > > > When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons: > > > 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against > his cheek > > in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So > far Tardive > > Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling > side > > effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic > drugs, the > > mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry. > > > > Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general > Hryhorenko were > > given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined > well > > psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine. > > And he wasn't. > > > No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort > 'appropriate' > > testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning > Eichmann and > > soviet dissidents into submissive zombies. > > But neither beatings nor torture were used to obtain Hoess' testimony. He > was called as a witness by Ernst Kaltenbrunner. > > > > While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to > testify he > > was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his > captors. > > But he wasn't given thorazine. > > > I hope this explains to you my position correctly. > > Sure. You're a lying fruitloop. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:59 EDT 1999 Article: 192018 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:04:25 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 186 Message-ID: <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689335 soc.culture.polish:192018 soc.culture.german:142671 soc.culture.russian:159690 Astonishing! Below John Morris explains and excuses Nuremberg American Prosecutor, reknown and respected American jourist lies in the International Court of Law! Jaksons mention of vaporizng prisoners with atomic energy implies: 1) that he himself fabricated the story out of a whole cloath, and unlikely proposition and a charge to an honest and impartial American jurist who allegedly have had plethora of authentic incriminating evidence. If so why he resorted to fabrications and ruses??? 2) implies that he heard the story from survivors, was unsure of them and before accusing Speer outright and compromise survivors on the witness stand he tested them in this manner, without prevaricating on his own. 3) since servivors are to be belived (a dictum of Holocaustianity and the basis of the Holocaust) if the second possibility is true, then we must consider it as proven that atom was used for vaporization of humans by the Nazis. If my logic is faulty, please indicate, or perhaps you have some others explanations to make Polina John Morris wrote: > In <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 18:38:41 -0400, polin wrote: > > >"Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > >> polin wrote in article > >> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > >> > My title is self explanatory > > >> And once more displays your ignorance. > > >> The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > >> brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > >1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". It is produced by hydrolysis [break down] > >of animal fat into fatty acids and glycerol and addition of sodium hydroxide and > >forming from the original esters a fatty acid sodium salt. > > >No one invented production of saponyfying agent from human or any protein. > > Nice strawman fallacy, Joseph/Jozef/Joanna/Polina. In fact, you have > just proven that it is possible to make soap from human fat. > > >2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is > >trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not > >used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > >available for interlibrary loans. > > That is no excuse. Fourteen volumes are already available on the web > with more to come: > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > >I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete but the most > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the basement of the > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > That is no excuse. Fourteen volumes are already available on the web > with more to come: > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > >With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this university > >removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate Sterling > >library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. Apparently even > >its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? > > >Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university is the Guttenberg Bible > >on a permanent display in its atomic blast-safe modernistic and beautiful building > >storing ancient manuscripts. Every night the display descends into A-bomb proof > >shelter. > > >Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult and apriori non-productive in a > >court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was abolished and > >affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. > > Then when you finally do read parts of the testimony, you will have a > tough time explaining the cross-examination of all of the defendants > and witnesses. > > >Thus C. Porter found out that the "fact" that Nazis exterminated Jews at Auschwitz > >with atomic bomb has been accepted as proven. > > Absolute nonsense. Robert Jackson used an old lawyer's of indirection > to induce Albert Speer to testify about the Nazi leadership's efforts > to prolong the war needlessly by circulating rumours of new > super-weapons that would turn the tide of a hopeless battle. > > Jackson asks Speer if he ever heard of an experiment in which in which > 20,000 Jews were vap[ourized with an atomic bomb: > > MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you know about that experiment? > > SPEER: No, and I consider it utterly improbable. If we had such a > weapon under preparation, I should have known about it. But we did > not have such a weapon. It is clear that in chemical warfare > attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the > weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party > would start chemical warfare first. > > MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon > were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in > the war? > > SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war. > From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the > front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and > could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people, > were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and > wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without > military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the > secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although > common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that in > the near future this new weapon would arrive. > > It is absurd to suggest that such a thing as vaporizing Jews was > "proved" at Nuremberg. The only things considered proved at Nuremberg > were the charges on the indictment referenced in the Judgment in > Volume I. > > > Thus who should care about nuremberg > >except for most fanatical Holocaustians? > > Obviously you, since you are a know-nothing who believes Carlos > Porter's obvious and stupid lies. > > >Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the human-fat-soap > >hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. > > >In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg there is a > >photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in Cyrylic > >script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. > > >Am I correct about this photograph?? > > You are probably correct about the photograph. It was certainly not > beyond the capabilities of the Soviets to label their exhibits. > > Nevertheless, the evidence was provided to the Soviets by the British > including the depositions of Witton and Neely, two British prisoners > set to work at Danzig. > > Contrary to the Revisionist myth, the Soviets developed almost none of > their own evidence. > > >In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now accepted by > >orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. > > Wrong again. What legitimate historians have recognized almost since > the end of the war is that rumours of mass production of Jewish soap > were in fact rumours invented by camp guards as an additional torment > of their prisoners. > > But the evidence presented at Nuremberg was that Rudolph Spanner of > the Danzig Anatomical Institute tried to find uses for soap which was > manufactured from human fat. > > In 1960, the prosecutors' office in Flensburg declined to charge > Spanner presumably because it was impossible to determine whether he > had set out to manufacture soap or whether it was a natural by-product > of boiling the soft tissue off skeletons intended for use as > anatomical specimens. The process, called maceration, involves > boiling corpses in water and caustic soda (lye), and it naturally > saponifies any fats present. > > The fact nevertheless remains that Spanner attempted to find ways of > making the soap useful. Apparently, it stank horribly. > > So you see, Polina/Josef/Joanna/Liar, you believe the silliest things > that Revisionists tell you, and you dwell on irrelevant idiocies like > "human soap." It's time you learned some real history. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:59 EDT 1999 Article: 192019 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Lack of physical evidence is essential >>>Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:09:11 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 46 Message-ID: <3814AAD6.390A8A49@catskill.net> References: <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <19991024120014.12429.00000534@ng-ff1.aol.com> <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689343 soc.culture.polish:192019 Dear Mr. Morris, The princilple of revisionism rests not in Talmudic debates about testimonies but on the contrary on the lack of physical evidence of extermination i.e. forensic, air-photo and toxicological evidence. Were are the bones of the nearly 4,000,000 or 3,000,000 Jews Nazis did not have time to cremate? We found bones of our Polish victims at Katyn, Palmiry, Treblinka I, Miednoje, Kharkiv and Ukrainians at Vinnytsa, Lwow, Bykivnia, Byeolrussians in Kuropaty others in Karelia Any response? Polina John Morris wrote: > In <38139FAF.F591309F@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 20:09:20 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Philip Mathews wrote: > > [snip] > > Polina-Liar said: > >> >Explain why Hoess confessed to exxagerated 3,000,000 victims in his three year regin > >> >at Auschwitz. Did he wish to be hanged three times or four times?? > > >> Explain how this has anything to do with your charge of torture? > > >Unless forced, people do not generally admit to crimes they did not pepetrated > > Ah, the old circular argument. The proof that Hoess was tortured is > that the Holocaust is a hoax. The proof that the Holocaust is a hoax > is that Hoess was tortured. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:32:59 EDT 1999 Article: 192022 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:14:55 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3814AC2F.2E73A95C@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> <01bf1e4b$dd8c4080$579b10cf@default> <7uvjv4$l7f$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> <6TAUOFsMGmCemBMYdz7fa2GOVkTh@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689347 soc.culture.polish:192022 soc.culture.ukrainian:59691 soc.culture.german:142673 soc.culture.russian:159692 Dear Mr Morris, You are correct and you are not telling me anything new about Bruno Gallileo and John tyndal burnt for translating the Bible. But you must understand that I am also a Polish nationalist and for this reason I favor Copernicus who was in service to Polish kings. And as a Pole I will not tell you about Copernicus what is disadvantegeous to our worship of POSITIVE national heros and not sheep going to the slaugher. We think that raising children on martyrology results in columbine massacres vide boy Klebod. You should raise your not on now dehoaxed or demythologized Massada but on Einstein, Golda Meir, generals Dayan and Rubin not on holocaustomania. John Morris wrote: > In <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 18:45:46 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear Grazyna, > > >You also do not know that adjectives belong to poetry and not science. > > >Remember Nicholas Copernicus, the greatest revisionist of all times > > Oh golly, you even got that one wrong Polina-Liar. Copernicus wasn't > persecuted. You're supposed to remember *Galileo* because he was > persecuted for telling the truth. Of course, it wasn't much of a > persecution since eveyone knew that Kepler in Germany and Newton in > England were publishing Galileo's works. Galileo published his last > work under his own name while under house arrest in Italy. > > I have a better suggestion for Revisionists. Remember Giordano Bruno. > He was an exact contemporary of Galileo's who also agreed with > Copernicus. He has the added persecution value in that he was > actually burnt at the stake. > > But, alas, he was burnt at the stake for claiming that God created an > infinite number of populated worlds. A creation co-infinite with its > creator did not sit well with early modern Catholics. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:00 EDT 1999 Article: 192023 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:18:05 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 125 Message-ID: <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> <=DsUOFJ2L8ZOrATg0qODAZzCZO8z@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689348 soc.culture.polish:192023 soc.culture.german:142674 soc.culture.russian:159693 Dear John, You are citing data from yeasterday. I cited availability from 1995. I suspect you will castigate me for not perusing Internet in 1980s or 1970s Have reason Polina John Morris wrote: > In <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> in alt.revisionism, on 24 Oct > 1999 20:29:14 -0400, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > >polin wrote in article > ><38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>... > > [snip] > > >> 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is > >> trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not > >> used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> available for interlibrary loans. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > They are being made available on the Internet. > > > Further more than 10 libraries within a normal drive from my house in > >Allentown PA have copies. > > Just a small point since I already answered "Polina's" excuses, but a > quick look at OCLC reveals the following for the first record > Nuremberg proceedings checked: > > CA CKX CHAPMAN UNIV SCH OF LAW Lender > WV WV9 WEST VIRGINIA UNIV LAW LIBR Lender > > Ah, what the hell. I've got them online and the proxy server loaded > up. > > Second record checked: > > KS KKW WASHBURN UNIV Lender > NJ NJM MONTCLAIR STATE UNIV Lender > PA PBB BLOOMSBURG UNIV Lender > > Gee, that's five interlibrary lenders in the first two records > checked. > > Third record: > > NY NYP NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR Lender > > Ooooo! Not looking too good for OCLC not listing any interlibrary > lenders. And, hey, doesn't "Polina" claim to live in Queens, New York > just across the East River from NYC and the New York Public Library? > > Fourth record: > > CA CKX CHAPMAN UNIV SCH OF LAW Lender > CA CPF PEPPERDINE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > CA WST WESTERN STATE UNIV COL OF LAW Lender > DC DCV CATHOLIC UNIV AMERICA, DUFOUR LAW LIBR Lender > DC DLC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Non-lender > DC LHM US HOLOCAUST MEM MUS Non-lender > FL FBL SAINT THOMAS UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > GA GLL GEORGIA STATE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > IN XND UNIV OF NOTRE DAME, LAW SCH Lender > LA LLT LOYOLA UNIV, LAW SCH Lender > LA LSC SOUTHERN UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > MA HVL HARVARD UNIV LAW SCH LIBR Non-lender > MA NLL NEW ENGLAND SCH OF LAW LIBR Lender > MI ECB THOMAS M COOLEY LAW SCH LIBR Lender > MS MCC MISSISSIPPI COL, LAW LIBR Lender > NC NC# NORTH CAROLINA CENT UNIV, LAW SCH LIBR Lender > NC NDD DUKE UNIV LIBR Lender > NC NDL DUKE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > NC NRC NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIV Lender > NJ STL SETON HALL UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > NY UBK US COURTS LIBR, BROOKLYN Non-lender > NY UCN US COURT OF APPEALS LIBR, 2ND CIRCUIT Non-lender > NY ZNL NEW YORK LAW SCH LIBR Lender > OH OHO SUPREME COURT OF OHIO LAW LIBR Non-lender > VA AVJ US ARMY, JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL'S SCH Non-lender > VA VRL UNIV OF RICHMOND, LAW SCH LIBR Lender > ZZ Y8V DEPARTMENT FOREIGN AFFAIRS LEGAL LIBR Non-lender > ZZ Z@L UNIV STELLENBOSCH, J S GERICKE LIBR Non-lender > > Ouch! Twenty-eight more libraries, eighteen of them indicating that > they will do interlibrary loans of the Nuremberg proceedings. And > look: two of them are in New York City. Well, alright, one's in > Brooklyn, but that's even closer to Queens. > > Just in case anybody thinks I might have mistaken the work in > question, here is the abbreviated record for last item checked: > > TITLE: Trial of the major war criminals before the International > Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945- 1 October > 1946. > PLACE: Buffalo, N.Y. : > PUBLISHER: William S. Hein, > YEAR: 1995 1947 > > I guess that would be yer IMT Blue Series. > > The only question left is whether there is anything at all that > "Polina" *won't* lie about. > > "None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > available for interlibrary loans." > > BWAAAHAHAHAHA! > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:00 EDT 1999 Article: 192025 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:22:40 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 83 Message-ID: <3814AE00.78DD18BA@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689350 soc.culture.polish:192025 soc.culture.ukrainian:59692 soc.culture.german:142676 soc.culture.russian:159696 Thank you Mike! Are you revisionist or exterminationist? Polina Mike Curtis wrote: > polin wrote: > > >Dear Mr. K. > > > >I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. > > > >Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to > >be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly > >reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. > > This is what he testified to doing the above deposition during 1 April > and 2 April 1946. The following conversation came on page 14 during > the 2 April 1946 Deposition while they were talking about Jews: > > Q: But still Auschwitz succeeded in exterminating quite a number, > something like the millions, didn't they? > > A: Yes. > > Q: How many millions? > > A: I again refer back to the statement made to me by Eichmann in March > or April, 1944, when he had to go and report to Reichfuehrer that his > office had turned over two and one-half million to the camp. > > Q: To the Auschwitz area? > > A: Yes.Q: Only in the Auschwitz area? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Two and one-half million, you say? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Are you [sic] you a little confused just now? > > A: The reasons why I remember the number, two and one-half million, is > because it was repeatedly told to me that Auschwitz was to have > exterminated four to five million, but that was not so. We had an > order by the Reichsfuehrer of SS to destroy all materials in numbers > immediately, and not to preserve any records of the executions that > were being carried out. > > Q: The two and one-half million were people delivered to Auschwitz, > were they the ones that were executed? > > A: Executed and exterminated. > > For those who may have missed it I'll explain what is important to the > conversation above. Hoess makes it quite clear where this 2.5 million > figure came from. It came from Eichmann. He hadn't really thought > through for himself just yet. The 1.3 million figure would be his > claim later on in his autobiography. > > Mike Curtis > > From Ambrose Bierce: > > CHRISTIAN, n. > One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin. > > CONVERSATION, n. > A fair to the display of the minor mental commodities, each exhibitor being too intent upon the arrangement of his own wares to observe those of his neighbor. > > Please visit: > > Write to timeagin@flash.net for the Rat Pack LIVE > Show at the 500 Club in Atlantic City in 1962. A 4am > morning show! $19.95 Compact Disc called RAT PACK UNCENSORED > > http://www.jay-mar.com/stores.html > http://www.abebooks.com > http://www.bibliofind.com From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:04 EDT 1999 Article: 142571 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC at heart a revisionist>> Good and tough response to an anti-Semite Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:25:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 70 Message-ID: <3813A38B.ABE6C0AE@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689096 soc.culture.polish:191890 soc.culture.ukrainian:59642 soc.culture.russian:159576 soc.culture.jewish:417784 soc.culture.german:142571 Orac who lists himself as a.k.a. David Gorski see bottom of this page is an important figure on alt.revisionism He is perhaps the best educated anti-revisionist being a PhD if I am not mistaken and a young surgeon from Chicago area. Frequenting recently alt.revisionism I noticed that there are no other so erudite anti-revisionists and so civil in their responses as him. It is unfortunate that lately he resorts to on-liners suffused with adjectives and not facts, but responding factualy on internet takes time and him being I presume busy, surgeon it has to be excused. Still I wish to point that Dr. Gorski, paradoxically, is a revisionist at heart. The word is out since publication of the book by prof Lipstadt that we Jews and Holocaustians do not get into discources or discussions or rebutals with revisionists. And virtually every erudite Jew and every academic Holocaustian toes the party line. Like the Pope they never lower themself to debate with his/their intellectual opponents. Only Orac does it ... because he is like the Jewish philosopher Spinoza a revisionist at heart. My restrained admiration to you Orac. Polina, the perenial revisionist Orac wrote: > In article <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > wrote: > > > Orac : > > > > >Yes, you definitely don't want to get into e-mail exchanges with > > "Polina" > > >(a.k.a. Pawlikowski). He has no compunction about posting private > > e-mail > > >to public Usenet newsgroups. He did it to me once many months ago on > > >alt.revisionism. > > > > > > To be honest - it doesn't matter. I don't change my mind in private :) > > Anyway - thanks. > > Whether or not you change your mind in private is really not the point, > actually. There's the tendency to say things in private e-mail that you > wouldn't post to Usenet. At least for me that's true, and it appears to be > true for many people, hence my warning to you. Pawlikoski didn't really > post anything that embarrassed me, but the principle that private e-mail > should not be posted in a public forum without the author's permission was > violated, and that ticked me off. > > Also, Pawlikowski is an unrepentant Holocaust denier and anti-Semite, but > you probably already noticed that. > > > > BTW - sorry, off-topic question : do you read my posts in > > alt.revisionism? > > I'm not able to read this NG and when I send my posts in this thread my > > computer "can't convert alt.rev.". Just curious. > > Yes, I am posting this from alt.revisionism. I do not frequent any of the > newsgroups on Subject: header line. > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142583 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:49:01 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 66 Message-ID: <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <7v036c$n5k$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689133 soc.culture.polish:191915 soc.culture.german:142583 soc.culture.russian:159591 Dear Mr. Mc Vay, Many thanks for your response and help. In 1994-1996 when I was studying Nuremberg trials Yale International Law Library did NOT have complete set on their shelves. Perhaps since they obtained missing volumes. I will certainly refer to Avalon web project! Thank you for pointing me in this direction. For about a decade I am trying to find a set in used book stores in NYC area to no avail. Simultaneously I called about 30 nearby libraries asking if they still do not have a set in a storage pepared for discarding as "not circulating" and also met with no sucess an older librarians told me they discarded it decades ago as dust colleting and shelf occupying volumes. Apperently, our parents and grandparents still remembering propaganda of the Frist world war did not take the Nuremberg trials seriously, as most of us does it today. One of the librarian told me that the set they had they received free from the Government Printing Office. Since I do not believe eyewitness testimony I would not take her statement as accurate. Many thanks for your work at Nizkor. We and especially I a revisionst find a plethora of useful material at your site. We both see importance of putting these material of the internet but differ in their interpretation only. Sincerely, Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > >but the most > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > >basement of the > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > Yale Law has a complete set - see their Avalon Project on the web. > Several other sites on the web are transcribing the transcripts from > the first trial, including the Avalon and Nizkor Projects. Nizkor will > be finished within 12 months, barring unforeseen problems. > > Complete sets are also available through used book stores and rare > book dealers - I found a complete British set for sale on the web in > 1997, and bought it. > > It is also available on CDROM, but the copy I purchased is so full of > errors as to be totally unreliable for anything other than an index > for the hard copy - that's the Aristarchus disk, but don't waste your > money if you want the transcripts for anything more serious than > indexing. > > Try looking a little more diligently, and you will find it. > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142586 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:13:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 88 Message-ID: <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689142 soc.culture.polish:191917 soc.culture.ukrainian:59648 soc.culture.german:142586 soc.culture.russian:159592 Dear Mr. K. I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics and not Eichmann and Berlin. He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I think that much is clear. In regard to Eichmann, his testimony about the geysers of blood in Lemberg is foerensically absurd. There is an old Roman legal maxime -saying "once a laiar always a lair", unless proven otherwise. More interesting is why Eichmann "lied" on the witness stand in Jerusalem or in interogation room. Eichmnann trial was the first to be ever videotaped, then on 35 mm wide videorecording tape. His still photos int the glass booth and snippets from newsreel cameras from his show trial were reproduced over and over the world over. But the incriminating videotape was embargoed and locked up for near fortry years. And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was apparently forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel in April to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust. When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons: 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against his cheek in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So far Tardive Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling side effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic drugs, the mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry. Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general Hryhorenko were given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined well psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine. No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort 'appropriate' testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning Eichmann and soviet dissidents into submissive zombies. While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to testify he was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his captors. I hope this explains to you my position correctly. I do welcome civil responses to my e-mail which I will not publish on the Internet as inssinuated by ORAC. Greetings from Polina and God Bless you. Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > http://www.nizkor.org > > In article <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >Facsimile of Hoess deposition in English allegedly signed by him and > >being part of > >Nuremberg record, available from the USHMM indicates number 2,500,000 > >plus 500,000 > >victims who died due to disease and privation. > > > >It is preposterous on the part of Yale to state that Hoess the Commendant of > >Auschwitz for about three years had to rely on Eichman from Berlin to > >know how may > >victims he (Hoess) killed. It was duty of Hoess to report these number > >to Berlin not > >vice versa. > > Other than your feeling - i.e. that something someone said was/is > "preposterous" - do you have any evidence that Hoess lied? Do you have > any evidence that Eichmann lied? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:05 EDT 1999 Article: 142651 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:18:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 222 Message-ID: <38149F0A.13DC48BE@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689307 soc.culture.polish:192003 soc.culture.german:142651 soc.culture.russian:159673 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>... > > > > > > "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > polin wrote in article > > > <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > > > > My title is self explanatory > > > > > > And once more displays your ignorance. > > > > > > The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human > flesh was > > > brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > > 1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". > > Wrong. Soap is routinely made from animal fat. In my comprehension "flesh" = meat and fat is not "flesh". English is a living language and is used variously by different people. In earlier postings of two days ago I explained the chemistry of production of fat by hydrolysis of the fatty acids - glycerol esters (animial fat) and creation of faty acid + sodium hydroxide a water soluble fat. From 1945-1947 while I was growing up as a little girl in a Polish village all the soap we used was made at home because it was not available in the village store. The chemistry of this process I learned in the sixth grade. Do not trust me that I cite this "scholastic" knowledge, about 50 years old exactly. Do not trust me as an eyewitness or any eyewitness unless mine and their testimony is proven by physical evidence. > > > I have frequently done so using recipes from the 18th century. I knew that we have something in common > > > > 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings > is > > trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they > were not > > used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the > OCLC have them > > available for interlibrary loans. > > They are being made available on the Internet. According to yesterday communication - posting of K. Mc Vay they are being made so still not available in entirety. Dont you read his posts??? > > > Further more than 10 libraries within a normal drive from my house in > Allentown PA have copies. Please, PLEASE give it to me their names by e mail so I might call each of them and convince them to sell to me their dust-collecting and space occupying volumes. Do not post their names on Internet because other Revisionists might outbid me! After I call them all of them then you can and should list them on the Net. > > > > I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > but the most > > complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > basement of the > > obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > A copy is in the New York Public Library. The Columbia School of Law has > a copy as well. You will find that both the Red and Blue series (I'm sure > you know what they are since you're an expert on them) are both complete. > There is a volume of the Green Series missing from both collections. Thus even in NYC ivory towers the sets are incomplete. I missed the point that I wrote "which were most accessible to me." Due to my physical disability I can not travel by subways to Manhattan. Moreover, if I drive alone I have to use nearby parking which costs up to $19.00 per hour. I can not aford this. It is less expensive for me to drive to 60 miles to New Haven than to 5 miles to nearby Manhattan. I am astonished that poor and punny Allentown PA area libraries have Nuremberg proceedings. On the way to New Haven the weathiest public library in the world, the Greenwich Public Library (just two years ago they received $13,000,000 from the heiress of the American Tabacco Co, the largest single donor bequest received by a library in America) does not have the Preoceedings, discarded long time ago. 15 miles further up on the Interstate 95 there is a public library with the highest expenditure per person for new book ( about $22,00) in America combined with the highest lending rate of books per person per year. This is the Darien Public Library. Darien is a small NYC bedroom community of about 20,000 individuals which while it discarded its Nurmeberg Proceedings it holds on its shelfs about 40 copies of the [adultered] allegedly authentic Diary of Ann Frank. The community whith the highest readership in the country was not interested in the Nuremberg proceedings, dear Yale. > > > > With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this > university > > removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate > Sterling > > library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. > Apparently even > > its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? > > And they really hid it from the public by putting it on their Internet > site. You are using Talmudic methods Yale. Note that the question was WHY and I am refering to the availability between 1950-1995. In that era there was no Internet! You are heroically trying to weasel out of difficult questions with resonses to questions not asked. > > > Why are you lying again. The above deserves no comment. > > > > Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university > > It is no more a Jewish university than you are a loyal Pole. Which is not > at all. Call the Dean and ask him, look at the last names of students and academia (proffessors). Granted, half of the students do not look Jewish as about 15% of them are Oriental and 5% Black. Most importantly todays Jewish youth does not look Jewish due to miscegenation like Hilary Clinton or Edgar Bronfman, but look at her daughter or Hilary brothers ... "pure" Asheknazim from Przemysl, Della [Bella] Murray's home town (Hilary's grandma). > > > > Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult > > Only if you are stupid to find a copy. I think that the readers will evaluate my efforts at finding the Proceedings differently, than you Yale. I do have work to be done. I have no time to continue. I think from my writing is clear who is correct and who is devoid of reasonable arguments and angry. I am signing off, Polina > > > > and apriori non-productive in a > > court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was > abolished > > A lie. There was no limit on cross-examination. > > >and > > affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. > > Another lie from the fake Pole. Affidavits were used only where the > witness was unavailable or dead. There is no instance where the affidavit > of an available witness was used. There is only one affidavit that was > crucila to the decision. That was the affidavit of Chester Nimitz which > was used to ACQUIT Doenitz. > > > Thus C. Porter found > > C. Porter is a notorious liar and incompetent. Please see my article on > how he couldn't even cut and paste accurate quotations on The Holocaust > History Project. > > > Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the > human-fat-soap > > hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. > > I think you are crazy as a loon. Now go and do some research. > > > In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg > there is a > > photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in > Cyrylic > > script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. > > Exhibits intended for use at Nuremberg were given numbers. > > Give the number of this exhibit so that others may find it. > > > Am I correct about this photograph?? > > I've never seen it. And unlike you I have had access to the original > exhibits. > > > In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now > accepted by > > orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. > > You are a liar. > > Please name a single historian who states that the evidence accepted by > the IMT and made part of their judgment is either fake or fabricated. > > For an "independent journalist" you are an incompetent and dishonest > researcher. Rather than trying to find out facts you mindlessly repeat the > garbage found on websites maintained by the lunatic fringe. You are so > incompetent as a researcher that you could not even locate a set of books > in a library a ten minute subway ride from where you live. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142657 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:28:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 159 Message-ID: <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689309 soc.culture.polish:192005 soc.culture.german:142657 soc.culture.russian:159676 You are partially correct Yale, read below, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net>... > > Dear Yale, > > > You are using Madison Ave technique of asdvertising that falsity repeated > 1,000 > > times becomes truth. It works for a long time as the tobacco industry is > learning > > today. > > Wrong you are a Jew-hating fake whose hidden agenda is the rehabiliation > olf Adolf Shitler. I am not Jew hater, and occasionally defend Jews from anti-Semites, when warranted. On the other hand, yes, my agedna is to defend and bring forward the truth which ferequently = rehabilitation of Hitler. > > > having shown to be ignorant and to have continually misrepresented > nonsense as facts you are reduced to the usual behavior of the denier of > the Holocaust. > > > Indicdentally your evil Adolf Hitler did not some and advocated > abstinence from it > > because German physicians suspected decades before American physicians > that smoking > > causes cancer. > > A simple lie. Will you begin to tell the truth soon. > > > Incidently, ignorant one, cigarettes were known in the US as "coffin > nails" as early as World War I. Journa of the American Medical Association stopped carry advertisment for cigarettes in early 1950's. Such adds woudl state that e.g. Camel is best for the soothing of the sore throat. > > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the > > > majority of > > > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, 300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on this subject about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I do not have handy > > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > And now all he wants to do is call names. > > > > > > > The most notorious examples of those false > > > > > > documents are the witness testimonies, the > > > > > > forensic report and other evidence produced at > > > > > > the trial of ten German officers accused of > > > > > > murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > > > > > Katyn Forest. > > > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary > > > evidence of the > > > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. I am too busy to continue, think answeres above give you taste of Yales irresponsibility. Poina > > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > I find it strange that the deniers of the Holocaust > continually > > > use the > > > > > fact that the Tribunal was savvy enough to expose frauds as > evidence > > > that > > > > > the Tribunal was incapable of determining what was fraudlulent or > not. > > > > > > But the fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > > In the eyes of the law, the trial at Nuremberg was fair and > > > honest and > > > > > those found guilty were given a fair trial. There was no finding > by > > > the > > > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. In fact > the > > > > > evidence presented BY THE DEFENSE was ambiguous. No person was, > > > therefore, > > > > > sentenced to death for the crime. > > > > > > The fake Pole did not answer this. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > > This but one example of seemingly endless list > > > > > > of false documents used as testimony at > > > > > > Nuremberg trials. > > > > > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, > > > without end > > > > > but without beginning. > > > > > > The fake Pole still has not provided any. > > And he still hasn't. > > All he wants to do now is call names. > > > > > > The ignorant statements you make presents another good > reason > > > why the > > > > > Nuremberg trials should be studied. The garbage you pass off as > "well > > > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > > > > The fake Pole remains as ignorant as ever. > > Even worse. There having been a demosntration that the fake Pole -- who > claimed to be a "journalist" -- was just regurgitating garbage from a > lunatic web site he ran away. > > The fact is that the garbage that he accepts on blind faith is an insult > to every real Pole, every real German, and every real Jew in the world. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142661 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Nuremberg and the Shoa forgotten until 1961>>Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:34:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 83 Message-ID: <3814A2A9.8C322CD8@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <7v036c$n5k$1@hub.org> <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net> <01bf1e97$72931500$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689317 soc.culture.polish:192011 soc.culture.german:142661 soc.culture.russian:159678 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3813C51D.E3AD05BB@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr. Mc Vay, > > > > Many thanks for your response and help. > > > > In 1994-1996 when I was studying Nuremberg trials Yale International Law > > Library did NOT have complete set on their shelves. > > That is not true. They had a complete set of of the published volumes. > > There is a volume of the Green series, which does not concern the IMT > trial which was printed but, apparently, never distributed. > > > For about a decade I am trying to find a set in used book stores in NYC > area > > to no avail. > > Try a good book search. I reccommend Mike Curtis who psots here. > > > Simultaneously I called about 30 nearby libraries asking if > > they still do not have a set in a storage pepared for discarding as "not > > circulating" and also met with no sucess an older librarians told me they > > discarded it decades ago as dust colleting and shelf occupying volumes. > > You're lying. It's in the reference section of every library I've been > in. Reference books do not circulate. > > > > Apperently, our parents and grandparents still remembering propaganda of > the > > Frist world war did not take the Nuremberg trials seriously, as most of > us > > does it today. > > You're lying again. It was front page news. True, to bre red and be forgotten, and American and American Jewry DID forget the holocaust nearly completely until the next SHOW TRIAL of 1961. Polina > > > > One of the librarian told me that the set they had they received free > from > > the Government Printing Office. Since I do not believe eyewitness > testimony > > I would not take her statement as accurate. > > You never talked to a librarian. > > > Many thanks for your work at Nizkor. We and especially I a revisionst > find > > a plethora of useful material at your site. We both see importance of > > putting these material of the internet but differ in their interpretation > > only. > > That's because you lkie a lot. like this: > > > > >I live in Queens, NY > > And post from an ISP which does not servie that area. > > and believe it or not I found the only incomplete > > > >but the most > > > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the > > > >basement of the > > > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > Since the NYPL has one, your lie is patent. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142662 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC at heart a revisionist>> Good and tough response to an anti-Semite Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:36:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 107 Message-ID: <3814A33B.6DE962D0@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <380FF04F.4759D069@catskill.net> <3810BF52.6D5F6CD2@catskill.net> <3811AF07.65BB@acadia.net> <381f06b0.29573609@news.thegrid.net> <7uv77t$d56$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38132E93.1704E7DD@catskill.net> <7uvh5t$61j$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <3813A38B.ABE6C0AE@catskill.net> <3813D2E5.46B435EF@mediaone.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689319 soc.culture.polish:192012 soc.culture.ukrainian:59686 soc.culture.russian:159680 soc.culture.jewish:417960 soc.culture.german:142662 The more higly educated anti-Revisionists we have the better. I am sick to read over and over the vularieties you Jewish anti-revisionists level at us. You might be correct about Danny Karen, I do not think he uses gutter verbiage Polina Richard Phillips wrote: > polin wrote: > > > > Orac who lists himself as a.k.a. David Gorski see bottom of this page is an > > important figure on alt.revisionism > > > > He is perhaps the best educated anti-revisionist being a PhD if I am not > > mistaken and a young surgeon from Chicago area. > > =================================================== > Phillips > > I believe Danny Keren is also a PhD. > > =============================================== > > > > Frequenting recently alt.revisionism I noticed that there are no other so > > erudite anti-revisionists and so civil in their responses as him. > ========================================================== > Phillips > > I would class Eugene Holman as even more so. > > =========================================== > > It is > > unfortunate that lately he resorts to on-liners suffused with adjectives and > > not facts, but responding factualy on internet takes time and him being I > > presume busy, surgeon it has to be excused. > > > > Still I wish to point that Dr. Gorski, paradoxically, is a revisionist at > > heart. The word is out since publication of the book by prof Lipstadt that we > > Jews and Holocaustians do not get into discources or discussions or rebutals > > with revisionists. And virtually every erudite Jew and every academic > > Holocaustian toes the party line. > > ================================================ > Phillips > > Is this a NEW book by Lipstadt? > > ============================================= > > > > Like the Pope they never lower themself to debate with his/their intellectual > > opponents. Only Orac does it ... because he is like the Jewish philosopher > > Spinoza a revisionist at heart. > > > > My restrained admiration to you Orac. > > > > Polina, the perenial revisionist > > > > Orac wrote: > > > > > In article <7uvnkm$c5b$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Orac : > > > > > > > > >Yes, you definitely don't want to get into e-mail exchanges with > > > > "Polina" > > > > >(a.k.a. Pawlikowski). He has no compunction about posting private > > > > e-mail > > > > >to public Usenet newsgroups. He did it to me once many months ago on > > > > >alt.revisionism. > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest - it doesn't matter. I don't change my mind in private :) > > > > Anyway - thanks. > > > > > > Whether or not you change your mind in private is really not the point, > > > actually. There's the tendency to say things in private e-mail that you > > > wouldn't post to Usenet. At least for me that's true, and it appears to be > > > true for many people, hence my warning to you. Pawlikoski didn't really > > > post anything that embarrassed me, but the principle that private e-mail > > > should not be posted in a public forum without the author's permission was > > > violated, and that ticked me off. > > > > > > Also, Pawlikowski is an unrepentant Holocaust denier and anti-Semite, but > > > you probably already noticed that. > > > > > > > > > > BTW - sorry, off-topic question : do you read my posts in > > > > alt.revisionism? > > > > I'm not able to read this NG and when I send my posts in this thread my > > > > computer "can't convert alt.rev.". Just curious. > > > > > > Yes, I am posting this from alt.revisionism. I do not frequent any of the > > > newsgroups on Subject: header line. > > > > > > -- > > > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > > > a.k.a. | > > > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > > > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:06 EDT 1999 Article: 142665 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!, Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:44:43 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 116 Message-ID: <3814A51A.DEE20C45@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> <01bf1e9f$5617d8e0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689324 soc.culture.polish:192014 soc.culture.ukrainian:59687 soc.culture.german:142665 soc.culture.russian:159684 Dear Yale, How much you would charge for the copy of the 1980s video of Eichmann in which we could see him intermittently and or in spurts continuously pumping his cheek with his tongue, the pathogmonic sign of Tardive Dyskinesia ergo side effect of Thorazine/ If you do not respond to this bid, probably the video was made in such as manner as to take out the moments when he is pumping his cheek. I am ready to pay for the video up to $50.00. Perhaps other revisionists woudl chip in if you jack your price above my maximum. If you do not want to sell let me know if the video is and where available. Polina. "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > polin wrote in article > <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net>... > > Dear Mr. K. > > > > I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. > > > > Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in > order to > > be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now > greatly > > reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. > > Since the actual estimates he gave while under oath and in his memoirs > were quite a bit lower, your theory is nonsense. Had he wished to conform > to the higher estimate he certainly would have done so in his memoirs > written in a Polish prison. Stop arguing, use your scanner and provide the facsimile so readers can see with their own eyes that I am correct. > > > > Being the Commandant he had to be The Source of the primary statistics > and not > > Eichmann and Berlin. > > Bullshit. He was commandmant only for a large portion of the time > Auschwitz was in operation. He was promoted and served elsewhere until > 1944 when he was brought back for the extermiantion of Hungarian Jews. > > Why do you not know this simple fact. > > > He was simply forced to sign the confessions/testimony by his captors. I > think > > that much is clear. > > Only to you. He was, moreover, a DEFENSE witness when he gave his > testimony. > > > > And then a lapsus lingue occured. The restriction on its showing was > apparently > > forgotten after 40 years and the ABC TV showed it on the Court TV Channel > in April > > to commemortate the Month of the Holocaust. > > Again, not true. I have a vidoetape of excerpts from the trial made in > the 1980's. > > > When I watched that program I was struck dumb for two reasons: > > > 1) Eichmann in the glass booth was constantly pumping his tongue against > his cheek > > in a unmistakenable, incontroveritble Tardive Dyskinesia movement. So > far Tardive > > Dyskinesia has been described only as the common, permanent and disabling > side > > effect of Thorazine a potent and the first of the modern psychotropic > drugs, the > > mainstay, to this day, of modern psychiatry. > > > > Soviet dissidents like the Ukrainian (Red Army) rocketry general > Hryhorenko were > > given Thorazine to subdue them mentally. Since Eichman was determined > well > > psychiatrically there was no medical need to give him thorazine. > > And he wasn't. > > > No beatings or tortures were required like from Hoes to extort > 'appropriate' > > testimony. An injection of 20 miligrams of Thorazine was turning > Eichmann and > > soviet dissidents into submissive zombies. > > But neither beatings nor torture were used to obtain Hoess' testimony. He > was called as a witness by Ernst Kaltenbrunner. > > > > While under influence of thorazine he did not have to be told what to > testify he > > was inventing and relaying delusions and confabulations satisfying his > captors. > > But he wasn't given thorazine. > > > I hope this explains to you my position correctly. > > Sure. You're a lying fruitloop. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:07 EDT 1999 Article: 142671 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:04:25 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 186 Message-ID: <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689335 soc.culture.polish:192018 soc.culture.german:142671 soc.culture.russian:159690 Astonishing! Below John Morris explains and excuses Nuremberg American Prosecutor, reknown and respected American jourist lies in the International Court of Law! Jaksons mention of vaporizng prisoners with atomic energy implies: 1) that he himself fabricated the story out of a whole cloath, and unlikely proposition and a charge to an honest and impartial American jurist who allegedly have had plethora of authentic incriminating evidence. If so why he resorted to fabrications and ruses??? 2) implies that he heard the story from survivors, was unsure of them and before accusing Speer outright and compromise survivors on the witness stand he tested them in this manner, without prevaricating on his own. 3) since servivors are to be belived (a dictum of Holocaustianity and the basis of the Holocaust) if the second possibility is true, then we must consider it as proven that atom was used for vaporization of humans by the Nazis. If my logic is faulty, please indicate, or perhaps you have some others explanations to make Polina John Morris wrote: > In <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 18:38:41 -0400, polin wrote: > > >"Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > >> polin wrote in article > >> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net>... > >> > My title is self explanatory > > >> And once more displays your ignorance. > > >> The proof of the experimental attempts to make soap from human flesh was > >> brought by the British based on evidence that they developed. > > >1) Soap can not be made from any "flesh". It is produced by hydrolysis [break down] > >of animal fat into fatty acids and glycerol and addition of sodium hydroxide and > >forming from the original esters a fatty acid sodium salt. > > >No one invented production of saponyfying agent from human or any protein. > > Nice strawman fallacy, Joseph/Jozef/Joanna/Polina. In fact, you have > just proven that it is possible to make soap from human fat. > > >2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is > >trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not > >used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > >available for interlibrary loans. > > That is no excuse. Fourteen volumes are already available on the web > with more to come: > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > >I live in Queens, NY and believe it or not I found the only incomplete but the most > >complete set, and most accessible to me, on which was one in the basement of the > >obsucre International Law Library at Yale University in New Haven CT! > > That is no excuse. Fourteen volumes are already available on the web > with more to come: > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > >With Dean being a Jew and 70% of student body of being Jewish, this university > >removed the set of the Nuremberg trial proceedings from the main ornate Sterling > >library literaly to the 'anus mundi' or the bowels of its campus. Apparently even > >its holocaustian student body is not interested in its Bible! Why? > > >Instead, the price and the pride of this Jewish university is the Guttenberg Bible > >on a permanent display in its atomic blast-safe modernistic and beautiful building > >storing ancient manuscripts. Every night the display descends into A-bomb proof > >shelter. > > >Thus, studying of such proceedings is difficult and apriori non-productive in a > >court where them most primitive cross-examination of witnesses was abolished and > >affidavits (not even testimony) was accepted as proven fact. > > Then when you finally do read parts of the testimony, you will have a > tough time explaining the cross-examination of all of the defendants > and witnesses. > > >Thus C. Porter found out that the "fact" that Nazis exterminated Jews at Auschwitz > >with atomic bomb has been accepted as proven. > > Absolute nonsense. Robert Jackson used an old lawyer's of indirection > to induce Albert Speer to testify about the Nazi leadership's efforts > to prolong the war needlessly by circulating rumours of new > super-weapons that would turn the tide of a hopeless battle. > > Jackson asks Speer if he ever heard of an experiment in which in which > 20,000 Jews were vap[ourized with an atomic bomb: > > MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Do you know about that experiment? > > SPEER: No, and I consider it utterly improbable. If we had such a > weapon under preparation, I should have known about it. But we did > not have such a weapon. It is clear that in chemical warfare > attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the > weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party > would start chemical warfare first. > > MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon > were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in > the war? > > SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war. > From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the > front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and > could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people, > were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and > wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without > military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the > secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although > common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that in > the near future this new weapon would arrive. > > It is absurd to suggest that such a thing as vaporizing Jews was > "proved" at Nuremberg. The only things considered proved at Nuremberg > were the charges on the indictment referenced in the Judgment in > Volume I. > > > Thus who should care about nuremberg > >except for most fanatical Holocaustians? > > Obviously you, since you are a know-nothing who believes Carlos > Porter's obvious and stupid lies. > > >Going back to your specific accusation about British developing the human-fat-soap > >hoax, I think you are wrong or partially wrong. > > >In the collection of the documents provided by the Soviets at Nuremberg there is a > >photo of a white flat enameled tray with cakes of soap which is labled in Cyrylic > >script. I do not think British communicate in Cyrylic alfabet. > > >Am I correct about this photograph?? > > You are probably correct about the photograph. It was certainly not > beyond the capabilities of the Soviets to label their exhibits. > > Nevertheless, the evidence was provided to the Soviets by the British > including the depositions of Witton and Neely, two British prisoners > set to work at Danzig. > > Contrary to the Revisionist myth, the Soviets developed almost none of > their own evidence. > > >In any case it is immaterial who delivered the evidence which is now accepted by > >orthodox Holocaustian as fake and fabricated. > > Wrong again. What legitimate historians have recognized almost since > the end of the war is that rumours of mass production of Jewish soap > were in fact rumours invented by camp guards as an additional torment > of their prisoners. > > But the evidence presented at Nuremberg was that Rudolph Spanner of > the Danzig Anatomical Institute tried to find uses for soap which was > manufactured from human fat. > > In 1960, the prosecutors' office in Flensburg declined to charge > Spanner presumably because it was impossible to determine whether he > had set out to manufacture soap or whether it was a natural by-product > of boiling the soft tissue off skeletons intended for use as > anatomical specimens. The process, called maceration, involves > boiling corpses in water and caustic soda (lye), and it naturally > saponifies any fats present. > > The fact nevertheless remains that Spanner attempted to find ways of > making the soap useful. Apparently, it stank horribly. > > So you see, Polina/Josef/Joanna/Liar, you believe the silliest things > that Revisionists tell you, and you dwell on irrelevant idiocies like > "human soap." It's time you learned some real history. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:07 EDT 1999 Article: 142673 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: response # 2Treblinka was cadaveric and smelly but not exterminationist >>> Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:14:55 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3814AC2F.2E73A95C@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <380FEB8D.1E054F5F@catskill.net> <01bf1cfc$b0dbe2c0$439a10cf@default> <38129885.4ACEF6AF@catskill.net> <01bf1e23$66bcc880$8d9910cf@default> <38132DE9.927A1709@catskill.net> <01bf1e4b$dd8c4080$579b10cf@default> <7uvjv4$l7f$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> <6TAUOFsMGmCemBMYdz7fa2GOVkTh@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689347 soc.culture.polish:192022 soc.culture.ukrainian:59691 soc.culture.german:142673 soc.culture.russian:159692 Dear Mr Morris, You are correct and you are not telling me anything new about Bruno Gallileo and John tyndal burnt for translating the Bible. But you must understand that I am also a Polish nationalist and for this reason I favor Copernicus who was in service to Polish kings. And as a Pole I will not tell you about Copernicus what is disadvantegeous to our worship of POSITIVE national heros and not sheep going to the slaugher. We think that raising children on martyrology results in columbine massacres vide boy Klebod. You should raise your not on now dehoaxed or demythologized Massada but on Einstein, Golda Meir, generals Dayan and Rubin not on holocaustomania. John Morris wrote: > In <38138C1A.6CFDFFC6@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Sun, 24 Oct > 1999 18:45:46 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear Grazyna, > > >You also do not know that adjectives belong to poetry and not science. > > >Remember Nicholas Copernicus, the greatest revisionist of all times > > Oh golly, you even got that one wrong Polina-Liar. Copernicus wasn't > persecuted. You're supposed to remember *Galileo* because he was > persecuted for telling the truth. Of course, it wasn't much of a > persecution since eveyone knew that Kepler in Germany and Newton in > England were publishing Galileo's works. Galileo published his last > work under his own name while under house arrest in Italy. > > I have a better suggestion for Revisionists. Remember Giordano Bruno. > He was an exact contemporary of Galileo's who also agreed with > Copernicus. He has the added persecution value in that he was > actually burnt at the stake. > > But, alas, he was burnt at the stake for claiming that God created an > infinite number of populated worlds. A creation co-infinite with its > creator did not sit well with early modern Catholics. > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:07 EDT 1999 Article: 142674 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:18:05 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 125 Message-ID: <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> <=DsUOFJ2L8ZOrATg0qODAZzCZO8z@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689348 soc.culture.polish:192023 soc.culture.german:142674 soc.culture.russian:159693 Dear John, You are citing data from yeasterday. I cited availability from 1995. I suspect you will castigate me for not perusing Internet in 1980s or 1970s Have reason Polina John Morris wrote: > In <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> in alt.revisionism, on 24 Oct > 1999 20:29:14 -0400, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > >polin wrote in article > ><38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net>... > > [snip] > > >> 2) Studying the two dozens of fat volumes of Nurmemberg trial proceeeings is > >> trying. Virtrually all of public libraries got rid of them because they were not > >> used by their readers. None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> available for interlibrary loans. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > They are being made available on the Internet. > > > Further more than 10 libraries within a normal drive from my house in > >Allentown PA have copies. > > Just a small point since I already answered "Polina's" excuses, but a > quick look at OCLC reveals the following for the first record > Nuremberg proceedings checked: > > CA CKX CHAPMAN UNIV SCH OF LAW Lender > WV WV9 WEST VIRGINIA UNIV LAW LIBR Lender > > Ah, what the hell. I've got them online and the proxy server loaded > up. > > Second record checked: > > KS KKW WASHBURN UNIV Lender > NJ NJM MONTCLAIR STATE UNIV Lender > PA PBB BLOOMSBURG UNIV Lender > > Gee, that's five interlibrary lenders in the first two records > checked. > > Third record: > > NY NYP NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR Lender > > Ooooo! Not looking too good for OCLC not listing any interlibrary > lenders. And, hey, doesn't "Polina" claim to live in Queens, New York > just across the East River from NYC and the New York Public Library? > > Fourth record: > > CA CKX CHAPMAN UNIV SCH OF LAW Lender > CA CPF PEPPERDINE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > CA WST WESTERN STATE UNIV COL OF LAW Lender > DC DCV CATHOLIC UNIV AMERICA, DUFOUR LAW LIBR Lender > DC DLC LIBRARY OF CONGRESS Non-lender > DC LHM US HOLOCAUST MEM MUS Non-lender > FL FBL SAINT THOMAS UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > GA GLL GEORGIA STATE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > IN XND UNIV OF NOTRE DAME, LAW SCH Lender > LA LLT LOYOLA UNIV, LAW SCH Lender > LA LSC SOUTHERN UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > MA HVL HARVARD UNIV LAW SCH LIBR Non-lender > MA NLL NEW ENGLAND SCH OF LAW LIBR Lender > MI ECB THOMAS M COOLEY LAW SCH LIBR Lender > MS MCC MISSISSIPPI COL, LAW LIBR Lender > NC NC# NORTH CAROLINA CENT UNIV, LAW SCH LIBR Lender > NC NDD DUKE UNIV LIBR Lender > NC NDL DUKE UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > NC NRC NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIV Lender > NJ STL SETON HALL UNIV, LAW LIBR Lender > NY UBK US COURTS LIBR, BROOKLYN Non-lender > NY UCN US COURT OF APPEALS LIBR, 2ND CIRCUIT Non-lender > NY ZNL NEW YORK LAW SCH LIBR Lender > OH OHO SUPREME COURT OF OHIO LAW LIBR Non-lender > VA AVJ US ARMY, JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL'S SCH Non-lender > VA VRL UNIV OF RICHMOND, LAW SCH LIBR Lender > ZZ Y8V DEPARTMENT FOREIGN AFFAIRS LEGAL LIBR Non-lender > ZZ Z@L UNIV STELLENBOSCH, J S GERICKE LIBR Non-lender > > Ouch! Twenty-eight more libraries, eighteen of them indicating that > they will do interlibrary loans of the Nuremberg proceedings. And > look: two of them are in New York City. Well, alright, one's in > Brooklyn, but that's even closer to Queens. > > Just in case anybody thinks I might have mistaken the work in > question, here is the abbreviated record for last item checked: > > TITLE: Trial of the major war criminals before the International > Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 14 November 1945- 1 October > 1946. > PLACE: Buffalo, N.Y. : > PUBLISHER: William S. Hein, > YEAR: 1995 1947 > > I guess that would be yer IMT Blue Series. > > The only question left is whether there is anything at all that > "Polina" *won't* lie about. > > "None of the 23,000 libraries being part of the OCLC have them > available for interlibrary loans." > > BWAAAHAHAHAHA! > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Mon Oct 25 15:33:07 EDT 1999 Article: 142676 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!remarQ73!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:22:40 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 83 Message-ID: <3814AE00.78DD18BA@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689350 soc.culture.polish:192025 soc.culture.ukrainian:59692 soc.culture.german:142676 soc.culture.russian:159696 Thank you Mike! Are you revisionist or exterminationist? Polina Mike Curtis wrote: > polin wrote: > > >Dear Mr. K. > > > >I do not understand your question and did not say he lied. > > > >Hoes as you know grossly exaggerated the number of victims of his camp in order to > >be in accord with the data of his captors i.e. the 4,000,000 which is now greatly > >reduced by the orthodox holocaustian scholars and politicians. > > This is what he testified to doing the above deposition during 1 April > and 2 April 1946. The following conversation came on page 14 during > the 2 April 1946 Deposition while they were talking about Jews: > > Q: But still Auschwitz succeeded in exterminating quite a number, > something like the millions, didn't they? > > A: Yes. > > Q: How many millions? > > A: I again refer back to the statement made to me by Eichmann in March > or April, 1944, when he had to go and report to Reichfuehrer that his > office had turned over two and one-half million to the camp. > > Q: To the Auschwitz area? > > A: Yes.Q: Only in the Auschwitz area? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Two and one-half million, you say? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Are you [sic] you a little confused just now? > > A: The reasons why I remember the number, two and one-half million, is > because it was repeatedly told to me that Auschwitz was to have > exterminated four to five million, but that was not so. We had an > order by the Reichsfuehrer of SS to destroy all materials in numbers > immediately, and not to preserve any records of the executions that > were being carried out. > > Q: The two and one-half million were people delivered to Auschwitz, > were they the ones that were executed? > > A: Executed and exterminated. > > For those who may have missed it I'll explain what is important to the > conversation above. Hoess makes it quite clear where this 2.5 million > figure came from. It came from Eichmann. He hadn't really thought > through for himself just yet. The 1.3 million figure would be his > claim later on in his autobiography. > > Mike Curtis > > From Ambrose Bierce: > > CHRISTIAN, n. > One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor. One who follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent with a life of sin. > > CONVERSATION, n. > A fair to the display of the minor mental commodities, each exhibitor being too intent upon the arrangement of his own wares to observe those of his neighbor. > > Please visit: > > Write to timeagin@flash.net for the Rat Pack LIVE > Show at the 500 Club in Atlantic City in 1962. A 4am > morning show! $19.95 Compact Disc called RAT PACK UNCENSORED > > http://www.jay-mar.com/stores.html > http://www.abebooks.com > http://www.bibliofind.com From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:37 EDT 1999 Article: 689357 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Revisionists, bloody-minded, reprehensible racists Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:31:36 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 54 Message-ID: <3814B018.A1A1C3BF@catskill.net> References: <7v0st3$hh1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689357 Dear Dr. Keren, I am not surprised that among others I am called Ukrainian. Public opinion polls even in today's Poland show that Ukrainians are most detested ethnic in our country, far more then the Germans who allegedly killed 3,000,000 Poles and Polish 3,000,000 Jews. Calling someone in Poland Ukrainian is like calling someone anti-Semite or racist in the USA. This calumny is perenially cast on anyone who is ones strong oponent. Majority of Poles can not comprehend that being revisonist does not = Ukrainianism. Professor Ratiajczak of Opole presently on trial is undobtedly an Ukrainian for most primitive Poles especially that he was born on formerly German land for a several centuries. Instyutut Radical Nationalism in Warsaw and Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski the leading historical revisionist force in Poland are called Neo=Nazis and skin heads while these groups frequently are hired to beat us up. Soon they will be called Banderites an Ukrainian nationalists who fought for their independence during WWII and until 1953, yes some units survived and were active until 1953. Poolina Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > John Morris wrote: > > # Candide wrote: > > ## However, I suppose it would be fair to say > ## that I do detest a certain Ukrainian asshole > ## desperately trying to pass for a Pole. > > # Goodness! Tell us more. > > Hmm. Let me add my 2 cents. When I was in the Auschwitz museum, one > of the workers there told me that "The Polish Historical Society" > consists of an Ukrainian guy, who is pretending to be a Pole, for > some reason. > > It seems other people are aware of this, and one Polish poster wrote > that "polin" is posting with an Ukrainian accent (probably with > reference to the names of cities, such as Kiev). > > I bet that in his next reincarnation, he'll claim he's a Jew! :-) > > -Danny Keren. From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:37 EDT 1999 Article: 689359 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:49:42 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 226 Message-ID: <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689359 soc.culture.polish:192033 soc.culture.german:142677 soc.culture.russian:159700 Dear Yale, It is irrelevant if evidentiary material submitted to the Tribunal was admitted into court records as evidence. The fact that such phoney material was ATTEMPTED , as you admit, to be presented casts indelible shadow on the rest of materials and entire Trial. Prosecutors and Judges being the Victors of the WW II had [theoretically] access to plethora and aboundance real incriminating evidece. They had multitudes of personel to reject obviously confabulatory stories and obligation to submit bona fide data. The fact that they, the almighty, attempted to submit fabrications for ever deprecated the credibility of the ENTIRE proceedings. Once a liar always a liar. Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed in fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic delusions of liberated and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their phoney stories. Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even a SCINTILLA of a questionable evidence. Nuremberg was not a mafia trial where it is exceedingly difficult to get accurate evidence. All Nazi archives were opened to the victors. They should not need questionable and emotional eyewitnesses. They should not need faked soviet evidence. It should be rejected in the prosecutors chambers and not by the judges! Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and Kransondar trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and Leningrad trial of January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to death for the Katyn massacre! The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged secretly while the victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged publicly. Greetings from Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > > Candide lied: > > > >> It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > >> the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > >> were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > >> political police, dominated almost entirely by > > >> jews. > > >> > > >> The most notorious examples of those false > > >> documents are the witness testimonies, the > > >> forensic report and other evidence produced at > > >> the trial of ten German officers accused of > > >> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > >> Katyn Forest. > > >> > > >> Nine of the accused have been found guilty. > > >> Seven of them were hanged and two died in > > >> Soviet gulags. > > >> > > >> After the fall of Communism, Russians have > > >> admitted that the Katyn massacre has in fact > > >> been committed by the NKVD and the > > >> evidence against the accused has been > > >> fabricated. > > >> > > >> Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > >> hanged Germans who had no business > > >> invading Poland at the first place, but in the > > >> eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > >> murdered in cold blood by the real > > >> masterminds of the Katyn mass murder, who > > >> shamelessly paraded at the trial as > > >> prosecutors, witnesses and experts. > > >> > > >> This but one example of seemingly endless list > > >> of false documents used as testimony at > > >> Nuremberg trials. > > >> > > >> More on the subject at: > > >> http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > >> http://www.cwporter.co.uk/two.htm > > > > to which a choir of jewish trolls replied > > (among other things): > > > > > > A lie from Candide: > > > This is, of course, historically stupid... > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of > the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > > > But you will lie for them > > > > > > There was no finding by the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. (...) > > > No person was, therefore, sentenced to death for the crime. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > > > but without beginning. > > > > > > The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > > > > In other words, you have absolutley NO proof. > > > (...) you have no evidence at all to support it. > > > > What on earth is wrong with you people? Are > > lies and insults your only argument in > > discussion? > > Because you ARE lying. > > > I gave you a clear link to: > > http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > Porter is full of shit. > > > It is a document (translated for your > > convenience by Carlos W. Porter) introduced > > by the Soviets into evidence at the Nuremberg > > trial. It opens with the following statement: > > That is incorrect. It was never introduced into evidence and was not used > as support for the judgment. > > ------------------ > > DOCUMENT 054 USSR > > > > Report by a Special Soviet Commission, 24 > > January 1944, concerning the shooting of > > Polish officer prisoners of war in the > > forest of Katyn. > > In fact the Tribunal rejected the document as not being admissible in > evidence. > > > This "document" is an elaborate hoax > > describing in minute detail (on some forty > > pages of text) how, where and when the > > Germans killed the Polish officers whose > > mass graves were found at Katyn. > > And was not part of the evidence at Nuremberg. > > > Read it and tell me: is this not a sufficient > > example of false evidence given to the > > Tribunal by the NKVD? > > But it was not part of the evidence at Nuremberg. It was rejected by the > Tribunal. > > In fact, in a heated exchange the American counsel stated that the Soviets > should be held in contempt for attemting to introduce it. > > > Despite your statements to the contrary, the > > Katyn massacre WAS very well part of of the > > indictment at Nuremberg. Here is a quote > > from D. Irving's 'Nuremberg, The Last > > Battle': > > But the judgment of the Tribunal was that their report was rejected and > the ultimate judgment was that no convincing evidence had been introduced. > > > So, not only did Soviets introduce false > > evidence at Nuremberg but they also managed > > to attribute their own war crimes to Germans. > > As has been pointed out the report youcite wsa not introduced into > evidence. > > > > The Document 054 USSR quoted above is by > > no means the only example of the false > > testimony fabricated by NKVD and introduced > > as evidence at Nuremberg. There are other > > "documents", testifying for example to > > 4,000,000 gassed at Auschwitz > > No such document was introduced into evidence. > > > or describing > > the execution steam chambers or underground > > electrocution chambers or pedal operated > > killing machines, all of which have since been > > proved to be hoaxes. > > No such evidence was introduced into evidence. > > > Mr. Porter's website > > contains translations of quite a number of > > those "documents", all duly numbered and > > referenced as part of authentic Nuremberg > > evidence. > > That is incorrect. The ignorant Porter cited no such admission into > evidence. He cited only to the record of the trial. A record includes > material which was not introduced into evidence. He was too ignorant to > know the difference. > > > I suggest that you read some of them before > > publicly making hysterical asses of > > yourselves. > > I suggest you learn what you are talking about before you lie like you did > here. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:38 EDT 1999 Article: 689435 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:34:32 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192087 alt.revisionism:689435 soc.culture.ukrainian:59712 soc.culture.german:142715 Dear Dr. Orac, You would prove revisionists wrong if you could show mass graves on air photos of Babi Yar or Treblinka II and explained why about 50 mass graves at the Treblinka I are clearly seen in these wartime reconnaissance photos. Exhumation of these graves revealed about 100 corpses in each, but no traces of gas chambers and no humongous mass graves to correspond to the 3,500,000 or 2,2000,000 or even the 890,000 victims have been found. 50,000 old and sick Jews were allegedly shot by the Nazis at the Treblinka II Lazaret. Excavation conducted under the egis of a Jewish Judge Magistrate Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz from the District Court at Siedlce revealed some rubbish, badges of Jewish policemen (Ordnungdienst) absence of skeletons allegedly cremated and most importantly absence of at least 50,000 slugs and casings. Instead the careful archeology of the site discovered about 90 various coins among them several US pennies. Again, why we do find skeletons of Polish Ukrainian Byelorussian, Russian and even Finish victims of WWII murdered or executed by beligerents but we can not find the remains of millions of Jews the Nazis did not have the time to cremate Greetings from Polina Orac wrote: > In article <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > wrote: > > > polin : > > (...) > > >Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR > > (...) > > > > Let's revise this comparison. > > > > They told the truth. You ask : "prove, that our absurds aren't lies". > > And then, when we do prove that their absurd statements are lies," they > keep repeating them! > > [Snip] > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:38 EDT 1999 Article: 689438 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Sacrificed Inca children >>> Eichman was soaked with Thorazine not blood from Jewish geysers ...Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:52:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 214 Message-ID: <38152597.64BF912C@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <19991020231842.25871.00000215@ng-ff1.aol.com> <380FFDFE.58F680C3@catskill.net> <7ur7e2$to6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812B5B3.C21A73D@catskill.net> <7v26e6$ftk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689438 soc.culture.polish:192091 soc.culture.ukrainian:59713 Dear Philip, It is difficult to carry out discourse with a Talmudist. In general for the benefit of other readers I will explain again. I am not sure when Eichman visited Lemberg and was allegedly saw geysers of blood. Such phenomenon can not be seen and has never been documented in summer or winter, because the human skin prevents even putrefaction gasses from escaping from the human body and this is the cause of the postmortem bloating. Moreover, decomposition of the human body is severely dependent on the temperature. It stops below 32F virtually completely, what is most explicitly illustrated in the latest National Geographic. After 500 year sacrificed Inka children look like asleep, one girls face is partially darkend by lightning. Most of the Jews were allgedly killed in Lemberg after December 1941. In any case it is my understanding that Eichmann could not be sooner in that city. In late September and early October it snowed and rained in Kyiv south of Lemberg. I should not be trusted nor Yale. Please call your district or county or state Chief Medical Examiner Office and speak with any forensic pathologist. Unlike most of the other doctors forensic pathologists love to talk. Regular doctors are hearing talking patients all the time. Forensic pathologists patienst are permanently silent and for this reason they love to share their knowledge with alive individuals. Ask them if they ever heard about geysers of blood errupting from any graves. There are forensic pathologists who specialize in mass grave examination. They are affiliated with the Amnesty International and their group is located in Boston. Long distance calls are cheep 10 cents per one minute. Instead pondering call the Amnesty of Boston's Physicians for Human Rights or if you live in Europe call Hague Tribunal. The prosecutor will give you their experts coordinates. I find discussion with my oponent pointless. And what do you think? Polina Philip Mathews wrote: > In article <3812B5B3.C21A73D@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > Dear Philip, > > > > Your citations support my contention. > > False. > > > > > Burial slows down decomposition > > That's not what you said. You led the reader to believe burial causes > the process to esstentially cease. That is false. The process proceeds > in the same way, at a slower pace. > > > > And low temperature you did not mentioned (on purpose???) stops > decomposition. Look at > > the recent National Gegraphic. Inca children sacrificed in the Ades > 500 years ago look > > "like new". > > Explain how temperature applies to the exact example given, Eichmann's > visit, which started this thread. > > > > > Also waxy degeneration, as one found in Belzec, does not occur above > the ground > > especially in summer. > > Irrelevant to the point. Stick to the point which you raised, which has > now been shown to be erroneous. > > > > > Also bloating does not occur under ground in mass graves due to slow > production of gas > > and heavy pressure. > > False. The same process occurs, only at a slower rate. > > > > > Moreover, Nazis begun to form Ghetto and kill Jews on mass scale > (600,000 in total > > according to Nuremberg data) in Lemberg in December 1941. > > This is irrelevant to the Eichmann example. > > > > The story of ground swelling and heaving over the mass graves like > wave on the sea > > described by survivors is pure martyrological fiction. > > > > False, as has been shown. You've offered large amounts of > unsubstantiated opinion; you've stated the decomposition process stops > for buried corpses, which is not true; and you're now trying to > introduce other killings at other times in order to confuse the original > issue, which is the Eichmann visit. > > As I think is clear, you have no basis for any of the assertions you've > made with respect to the "impossibility" of what Eichmann saw. > > Philip Mathews > > > Polina > > > > Philip Mathews wrote: > > > > > In article <380FFDFE.58F680C3@catskill.net>, > > > polin wrote: > > > > Dear Philip, > > > > > > > > The geysers of blood are sheer hydrolic and medical impossibility. > > > > > > > > In mass grave blood is contained within the skin which can be > described as a tight > > > > leather sac and the bodies are gradually dehydrated by the > 'hydrostatic' pressure > > > > of the soil or corpses above. Think of cottage cheese being > turned in a cheese > > > > cloth between two boards into solid cheese. > > > > > > > > In the cool or cold and anerobic (oxygen deprived) millieu of the > mass grave the > > > > bacterial decomposition essentially ceases. Instead the slow > growing fungi take > > > > over. But fungi generally do not produce gases like the anerobic > bacteria at body > > > > temperature and above (85-105F) or yeast at 65-75F. > > > > > > This is not true. Buried bodies undergo the same five stages of > decomposition > > > (Fresh Stage, Bloated Stage, Decay Stage, Dry Stage and Remains > Stage) as > > > bodies left above ground . > > > > > > What does occur in buried corpses is a different rate of > decomposition. > > > > > > (begin quote) > > > > > > Keh (1985) presented Casper's rule, which states that decomposition > in air > > > for one week is approximately equal to decomposition in water for > two weeks, > > > which is approximately equal to decomposition underground for eight > weeks. > > > Others have also found that burial greatly slows down the rate of > > > decomposition (Mann et al., 1990; Turner, 1987). > > > > > > (end quote) > > > > > > Using Insects to Determine the Post Mortem Interval > > > Dr. Bob Randall > > > University of Saskatchewan > > > > > > During this inevitable process of decomposition the corpse > eventually reaches > > > the Bloated Stage. > > > > > > (begin quote) > > > > > > The bloated stage of decomposition begins with the start of bloating > and ends > > > with the cessation of bloating (Early and Goff, 1986; Rodriguez et > al., 1983; > > > Turner, 1987). This stage of decomposition is characterized by > putrefaction, > > > during which the gases produced by anaerobic bacteria cause the > abdomen to > > > inflate. The internal temperature of the carcass starts to rise > above > > > ambient temperatures due to the activity of maggots and bacteria > (Early and > > > Goff, 1986; Greenberg, 1991). The stench also becomes strong. This > stage is > > > reported to last three days in the summer, and five to seven days in > the > > > spring and fall for fully exposed human corpses (Rodriguez and Bass, > 1983). > > > This stage ends when the gases escape and the bloated carcass > collapses. > > > > > > (end quote) > > > > > > Ibid > > > > > > It is at this stage that large numbers of bodies, releasing gas > mixed with > > > bodily fluids, could produce the phenomenon reported by Eichmann and > others. > > > > > > Philip Mathews > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy. > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:38 EDT 1999 Article: 689443 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Quaintities of Soviet evidence at Nuremberg Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:06:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 79 Message-ID: <381528C5.722C973F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> <7v27if$rn2$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689443 soc.culture.polish:192092 soc.culture.german:142717 soc.culture.russian:159759 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Do not accuse me for not having NIT proceedings. I complained about the fact that they were hardly accessible even to a ardent student. I also stated that I do not care about these proceedings as the entire trial was a show trial. It is not worth to spent time to study them to just slightly embarass the WW II Holocaust believers. For years I hammer that the importrant this in this argument is the lack of the physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews. I do not wish to digress into trivia such as [extorted] testimonies of alleged perpetrators or martyrological group fantasies of survivors. Lets go back to the starting point and start looking for the bones of the 3-4M Jews the Nazis did not have time to cremate. This is what the prosecution at Nuremberg should have done first place. Instead they were talking about atomic energy and vaporizing prisoners with it e.g. Justice Jackson. Again, Mr Mc Vay where are the bones of the not cremated victims?? Once we establish their location then it will be worthwhile to review and consider as accurate testimonies of survivors and official Allied documents including Soviets. Polina Incidentally, you holocaustians blame Poles for the 4,000,000 Auschwitz hoaxy figure. Whom will you blame for the 600,000 victims of Lemberg etc??? The commissar of the Sovinform was Solomon Lozovsky. Smirnov, Porkovsky and most of the Soviet staff was also Jewish ... coincidence??? randomness??? Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > [...] > > >There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing > >designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, > >300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on > >this subject > >about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I > >do not have > >handy > > I have the "red set" here - it contains the documents listed as > evidence (but not necessarily introduced and accepted as such) for the > first tribunal. > > The designation "#6" is meaningless with respect to documents > submitted by the Soviets. > > Most of the documents submitted came from the American unit in Paris, > as has already been pointed out to you. > > What seems clear to me is that you have no real idea how many > documents were submitted by the Soviet Union, or how many were > submitted by others, and you have no idea whatsoever how many of the > Soviet documents were or were not accepted into evidence. > > It is also clear, from your own statements, that you do not have a > copy of any of the Nuremberg publications - i.e. you do not have the > red set (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca) which lists the > documents. > > That being the case, I cannot understand how you can make assertions - > which are essentially meaningless (to be kind) to anyone who _does_ > have the publications. > > Perhaps you can explain? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:38 EDT 1999 Article: 689444 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Quaintities of Soviet evidence at Nuremberg Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:06:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 79 Message-ID: <381528E0.D5A0B6DC@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> <7v27if$rn2$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689444 soc.culture.polish:192093 soc.culture.german:142718 soc.culture.russian:159760 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Do not accuse me for not having NIT proceedings. I complained about the fact that they were hardly accessible even to a ardent student. I also stated that I do not care about these proceedings as the entire trial was a show trial. It is not worth to spent time to study them to just slightly embarass the WW II Holocaust believers. For years I hammer that the importrant this in this argument is the lack of the physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews. I do not wish to digress into trivia such as [extorted] testimonies of alleged perpetrators or martyrological group fantasies of survivors. Lets go back to the starting point and start looking for the bones of the 3-4M Jews the Nazis did not have time to cremate. This is what the prosecution at Nuremberg should have done first place. Instead they were talking about atomic energy and vaporizing prisoners with it e.g. Justice Jackson. Again, Mr Mc Vay where are the bones of the not cremated victims?? Once we establish their location then it will be worthwhile to review and consider as accurate testimonies of survivors and official Allied documents including Soviets. Polina Incidentally, you holocaustians blame Poles for the 4,000,000 Auschwitz hoaxy figure. Whom will you blame for the 600,000 victims of Lemberg etc??? The commissar of the Sovinform was Solomon Lozovsky. Smirnov, Porkovsky and most of the Soviet staff at Nuremberg were also Jewish ... coincidence??? randomness??? Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > [...] > > >There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing > >designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, > >300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on > >this subject > >about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I > >do not have > >handy > > I have the "red set" here - it contains the documents listed as > evidence (but not necessarily introduced and accepted as such) for the > first tribunal. > > The designation "#6" is meaningless with respect to documents > submitted by the Soviets. > > Most of the documents submitted came from the American unit in Paris, > as has already been pointed out to you. > > What seems clear to me is that you have no real idea how many > documents were submitted by the Soviet Union, or how many were > submitted by others, and you have no idea whatsoever how many of the > Soviet documents were or were not accepted into evidence. > > It is also clear, from your own statements, that you do not have a > copy of any of the Nuremberg publications - i.e. you do not have the > red set (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca) which lists the > documents. > > That being the case, I cannot understand how you can make assertions - > which are essentially meaningless (to be kind) to anyone who _does_ > have the publications. > > Perhaps you can explain? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:39 EDT 1999 Article: 689445 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!, Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:10:19 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: <381529AA.15F53106@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> <01bf1e9f$5617d8e0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A51A.DEE20C45@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689445 Daniel Keren wrote: > [Followup-To: alt.revisionism] > > polin wrote: > > # Dear Yale, > # > # How much you would charge for the copy of the 1980s video of Eichmann in > # which we could see him intermittently and or in spurts continuously pumping > # his cheek with his tongue, > > It would be worth pretty much, considering the fact that one would have to put > Eichmann back together, in order to obtain such a video from the 1980s. He was > hanged and cremated in 1963. > > -Danny Keren. Dear Dr. Keren, Yale claimed he has 1980 video made from the video of Eichmann trial in 1961 From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:39 EDT 1999 Article: 689452 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:37:40 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 154 Message-ID: <38153013.D4B3BF0@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> <7v2f6c$1l5g$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689452 soc.culture.polish:192097 soc.culture.german:142721 soc.culture.russian:159761 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Effectivelly cornered you lost your cool, which by itself is an evidence that you have no strong and valid arguments just adjectives. While the First World War holocaust was completely forgotten and the WW II Holocaust withers, under the pressure of revisionists, and the Holocaustians bemoan passing off of Survivors (if they pass away how we are going to prove it to the future generations - a standard media cry), you are trying to preserve the authority of the Nuremberg Trial. Valiant effort Mr Mc Vay, but it will not do. To be belivable you must come with physical evidence. I am not 100% revisionist and I am not Nazi apologist. For example lately I hammer the unexplicable fact that about half of Polish clergy died at Dachau while it was not so with other nationalities. I am much disliked by quite a few revisionists and virtually all anti-Semites and to the same extent by you. I think I am the only revisionist who appreciates your web page. I think I am one of very few revisionists ready to become holocaustian again once solid physical evidence of industrial murder by the Nazis is presented. Will you become a revisionist when such evidence will not be forthcoming. And where are cremation pits and remains of mass graves which contained 48,000,000 victims of Belzec (every hour on the hour 10,000 vctims) or the 1,500,000 victims or at least 600,000 victims. Why do you think Polish authorities drag their feet with releasing archeology of Belzec or the Hydrokop report. These studies should confirm the industrial killing and should be publicized on front pages of all papers. And why Nazis did not completely covered the traces of their crime??? Why they did not bother even to start cremations at the mass graves of the 10,000 vixctims of the Treblinka II for Poles??? Lets forget about the shinanigans of the prosecutors and politicians and judges during the Nuremberg trial or even the Tardive Dyskinesia of Eichmann. While I mention that I do not put much weight into that. So what that Eichmann was fed with Thorazine. So what that he was spilling delusions about geysers of blood. The important subject is : how many Jewish skeletons or cremation pyres or cremation pits were discovered by archeologists at Lwow (Lemhberg). And indeed, the search was done in that city about 20 years ago especially in Lysynechi forest. But as usuall when the Jewish deaths are involved the archeology is classified as secret. Sincerely Polina Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >It is irrelevant if evidentiary material submitted to the Tribunal was > >admitted into > >court records as evidence. > > Not at all. It is relevant as it shows that material which was not > admitted as evidence did not meet the evidenciary standards set by the > tribunal - something which would have meant nothing if the tribunal > was a "show trial," as you have claimed. Had that been true, all of > the evidence submitted by the prosecution would have been admitted. > Get used to it. > > >The fact that such phoney material was ATTEMPTED , as you admit, to > >be presented > >casts indelible shadow on the rest of materials and entire Trial. > > Actually, it casts credibility upon the tribunal and its standards, > although you - for reasons known only to yourself and other deniers - > cannot see this. It clearly shows that standards existed and were > adhered to. Sorry about that, but your own contentions are nonsense > when considered beneath the light of the very evidence you submit in > your attempt to discredit the tribunal. > > >Prosecutors and Judges being the Victors of the WW II had > >[theoretically] access to > >plethora and aboundance real incriminating evidece. They had multitudes > >of personel > >to reject obviously confabulatory stories and obligation to submit bona > >fide data. > > >The fact that they, the almighty, attempted to submit fabrications for > >ever deprecated > >the credibility of the ENTIRE proceedings. Once a liar always a liar. > > Sorry about that, but, once again, you have only managed to defeat > your own "case" and show the validity of the evidenciary process. > Thank you so much for doing that! > > >Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed in > >fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic > >delusions of liberated > >and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their > >phoney stories. > > _Judges_ decide whether or not evidence is worthy of submission, not > attornies for defence or prosecution. By your rather strange > standards, we would have to dismiss just about every civil and > criminal trial ever held.... duh... > > >Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even > >a SCINTILLA > >of a questionable evidence. > > What colour is the sky where you live? Where did you get your legal > training? A Wheaties box? > > >Nuremberg was not a mafia trial where it is exceedingly difficult to get > >accurate > >evidence. All Nazi archives were opened to the victors. They should not need > >questionable and emotional eyewitnesses. They should not need faked > >soviet evidence. > >It should be rejected in the prosecutors chambers and not by the judges! > > What a strange concept of trial law you have, "Irene Polinhis > Miron Nasaduke!" > > >Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and Kransondar > >trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and > >Leningrad trial of > >January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to > >death for the > >Katyn massacre! > > If that had been true, the evidence would have been admitted into > evidence, as it always is during show trials. Again, thank you for > defeating your own case! > > Isn't it reassuring to note that while a Soviet show trial did indeed > convict Germans for the Katyn killings, the Nuremberg Tribunal did not > - in fact, as you very well know, at _Nuremberg_ it was conclusively > shown that Soviet charges were utter crap. How do you explain that, > "Irene Polinhis Miron Nasaduke?" > > >The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged > >secretly while the > >victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged publicly. > > Don't be so modest, old bean... the difference is that the Germans > were absolved of complicity in the Katyn killings during the Nuremberg > tribunal, an indisputable _fact_ which throws your entire thesis right > into the giwer. > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 00:57:39 EDT 1999 Article: 689453 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:43:37 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <38153179.18559C5D@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <01bf1f33$417d7f40$e19910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689453 soc.culture.polish:192098 soc.culture.german:142722 soc.culture.russian:159762 Yale below engages in total disinformation. I am not sure if this is premeditated or due to his superficial knowledge of the matter. Probably both. During the WW II there was a total cover up of the Katyn massacre in the media of the United States of America. Please do not trust me. Please check the New York Times Index and find one mention of Katyn during mid 1940s. You will find none. America and GB were engaged in cover up of Soviet crimes "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Peter Haefner wrote in article > ... > > On 23 Oct 1999 11:44:30 -0400, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > >> The most notorious examples of those false > > >> documents are the witness testimonies, the > > >> forensic report and other evidence produced at > > >> the trial of ten German officers accused of > > >> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > >> Katyn Forest. > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of > the > > >Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > >fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > The Soviets were deliberatly producing false evidence to pin the > > massacre to the Germans. > > That is correct. The evidence they produced, however, was neither > documentary evidence or eyewitness testimony. They relied on several > reports from pathologists and some hearsay testimony. > > It is now well-known that it was the Soviets as was suspected almost from > the moment that the massacre was discovered. There was a report rendered > to the US Department of State before the end of the war which stated that > the massacre was the work of the Soviets. > > There was one fact that put the issue in doubt for many years and, > ironically it was the forencsic study produced by the nazis. It found that > the victims had been murdered with ammunition manufactured in Germany. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 19:22:03 EDT 1999 Article: 689460 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:55:17 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 124 Message-ID: <38153435.B550E8D2@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> <01bf1f36$0384e7c0$e19910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689460 soc.culture.polish:192099 soc.culture.german:142723 soc.culture.russian:159763 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: snip But the Tribunal did not attempt to submit fabrications and, as you now > admit, did not accept them. > The only one being a liar now is you. I object to your assesment. Incidentally, the Polish government introduced materials about 2,000,000 Jews steamed to death at the baths at Treblinka. Was this admitted as evidence and what which death count the Tribunal established as true, could you tell me. Incidentally, what is your decision on selling me a copy of the video of Eichmann trial or giving me address where you bought it. How about the list of Allentown libraries having sets of Nuremberg transcritps??? There are some revisionist who damage the cause and some holocaustians who damage the Holocaust and you are one of them. I think Mc Vay and Keren do better job on fighting revisionists. I think you should help them and not produce your writings. Help them to put more documentation on the Internet. And there are many which prevent us from sleeping at night. Listen to prof Hilberg who says that tons of Nazi documents on acid paper never red desintegrate at the storage in Sutherland, MD. Polina > > > > Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed > in > > fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic delusions > of liberated > > and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their > phoney stories. > > And they put together one hell of a case. It depended almost entirely on > the documents of the accused and consisted of overwhelming proof which you > cannot refute except by lying about it. > > As you have several times. > > > Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even > a SCINTILLA > > of a questionable evidence. > > False. It is the record of a trial. It is the duty of a person compiling > a trial record to include EVERYTHING from the trial. Furthermore, as you > now admit, the specific documents you are complaining about were NOT > evidence. > > > Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and > Kransondar > > trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and > Leningrad trial of > > January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to death > for the > > Katyn massacre! > > You are a liar. There is no other word for it. > > > The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged > secretly while the > > victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged > publicly. > > No. The overwhelming opinion of those legal scholars who have studied the > trial is that the defendants received a fair trial. Even those who > disagree with the IMT trial and the attorneys for the defense have stated > that. If you really believe the garbage you present, you would have had no > problem in demonstrating how the defendants were denied a fair trial. > > Indeed the actions of Justice Musmanno (in the EG trial) was so highly > regarded by the defense counsel that they presented him a token of their > appreciation and cited his rulings in mundane criminal cases in German > courts. > > Not only have you failed to supply a single right of a fair trial that the > defendants were denied but you have made a fool of yourself when you tried. > > Start with the basics of a fair trial: > > Were the defendants allowed counsel of their choice? > > Were the defendants allowed to cross-examine prosecution witnesses and > challenge prosecution evidence? > > Did the rulings of the Tribunal conform to legal standards of the time? > > Were the Defendants allowed to present evidence of their own? > > Were the Defendants allowed to testify in their own defense? > > Were the defendants, in this case, allowed to make unsworn statements to > theTribunal that were not subject to cross-examination? > > Did the judgment of the Tribunal conform to the evidence that was before > them? > > Each of these questions can be unequivocally answered in the affirmative. > > As you have stated elsewhere, you do not even know what happened at the > trial or what the evidence is. You ahve even demonstrated that you do not > even know what evidence is. > > In short, you are an apologist for the nazis, stamping your foot and > demanding that others accept your garbled ideas as trueand correct. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 19:22:03 EDT 1999 Article: 689473 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german.,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa Subject: Hitler's jig dehoaxed, confirmed Churchill's cheering Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:23:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 141 Message-ID: <38153AE3.D078FAFB@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8" Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192104 alt.revisionism:689473 soc.culture.british:407733 soc.culture.usa:423586 --------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good evening, I just received an interesting letter from the Polish Historical Society. I was told, but not by Mr. Kuras, (letters author) that the Hitler's jig was created from a several splices of Adolph's one gesture of stomping foot and hiting his gloves against his tigh with justified satisfaction. This splicing was apparently made by British propagandists. The jig is immaterial in itself. The more important question is that if the Birts faked this sequence how many other sequences of other newsreels and documents they faked. Similarly, if it was proven that Rev Popieluszko the Solidarity priest was killed by Polish secret police agents, the question is how many other opponents they killed in more skilful and circumspect manner. If it was proven that Mr Clinton was cavorting with Monica L. how many other women he acosted. This can go on and on, but lets go back to the interestig letter from which we can see that the alcoholism of Mr Churchill led him to sadism. I am sure that after posting this letter at the soc.culture.polish I will be now no longer called Ukrainian but a Volksdeutscher and Mr Kuras will be called a Neo-Nazi. I wonder what they will call me when I will post text defending Japaneese civilians incinerated by American bombers. October 25, 1999 Letters Editor The Washington Post Washington, DC Dear Sirs, An eyewitness account from Angus Mac Lean Thuermer (Letters to the Editor - October 23) reveals that Adolph Hitler never actually "danced a jig" for any thing else, at the June 1940 armistice ceremony with the French at Compeigne. Interestingly, another eyewitness account - of an incident four years later - reveals a most demonstrative Winston Churchill. As background, it should be noted that Churchill had initiated the air war with Germany on May 11, 1940, when 18 Whitley bombers attacked railway installations in western Germany. And, when Churchill's War Cabinet approved the Lindenmann Plan in March 1942, it became official British Policy to "terrorize" (kill), by bombing, as many German civilians as possible. (This was readily acknowledged in the official publication "The Strategic Air Offensive Against Germany" [H. M. Stationary Office, London, October 1961].) And, indeed, with increasingly purposeful US assistance, well over a million German civilians were successfully slaughtered. We now quote (via Hennig p. 124), Emmanuel d'Astier de la Vignerie, former French minister of the interior, describing his visit to Churchill during the war, "Smoking his cigar, Churchill led me into a large room where a series of stereoscopes were set up next to each other like milestones. Each one was dedicated to a destroyed city. Churchill dragged me from one to the next. … so that I could watch the horrors of Cologne, Dusseldorf or Hamburg passed before my eyes. He himself was as excited as at a football game. He cheered, praised the destruction and lauded the hits." Jan Kuras --------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good evening,

I just received an interesting letter from the Polish Historical Society.

I  was told, but not by Mr. Kuras, (letters author) that the Hitler's jig was created from a several splices of Adolph's one gesture of stomping foot and hiting his gloves against his tigh with justified satisfaction.  This splicing was apparently made by British propagandists.

The jig is immaterial in itself.  The more important question is that if the Birts faked this sequence how many other sequences of other newsreels and documents they faked.

Similarly, if it was proven that Rev Popieluszko the Solidarity priest was killed by Polish secret police agents, the question is how many other opponents they killed in more skilful and circumspect manner.

If it was proven that Mr Clinton was cavorting with Monica L. how many other women he acosted.  This can go on and on,  but lets go back to the interestig letter from which we can see that the alcoholism of Mr Churchill led him to sadism.

I am sure that after posting this letter at the soc.culture.polish I will be now no longer called Ukrainian but a Volksdeutscher and Mr Kuras will be called a Neo-Nazi.

I wonder what they will call me when I will post text defending Japaneese civilians incinerated by American bombers.

October 25, 1999
Letters Editor
The Washington Post
Washington, DC

Dear Sirs,

An eyewitness account from Angus Mac Lean Thuermer  (Letters to the Editor - October 23) reveals that Adolph Hitler never actually  "danced a jig" for any thing else, at the June 1940 armistice ceremony with the French at Compeigne.  Interestingly,  another eyewitness account - of an incident four years later - reveals a most demonstrative Winston Churchill.

As background, it should be noted that Churchill had initiated the air war with Germany on May 11, 1940, when 18 Whitley bombers attacked railway installations in western Germany.  And, when Churchill's  War Cabinet approved the Lindenmann Plan in March 1942, it became official British Policy  to "terrorize" (kill), by bombing, as many German civilians as possible.  (This was readily acknowledged in the official publication "The Strategic Air Offensive Against Germany" [H. M. Stationary Office, London, October  1961].)

And, indeed, with increasingly  purposeful  US assistance, well over a million German civilians were successfully slaughtered.

We now quote (via  Hennig  p. 124),  Emmanuel d'Astier de la Vignerie, former French minister of the interior, describing his visit to Churchill during the war,  "Smoking his cigar, Churchill led me into a large room where a series of stereoscopes were set up next to each other like milestones.  Each one was dedicated to a destroyed city.  Churchill dragged me from one to the next.  …  so that I could watch the horrors of Cologne, Dusseldorf  or Hamburg  passed before my eyes.  He himself was as excited as at a football game.  He cheered, praised the destruction and lauded the hits."

Jan Kuras
 
 
  --------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8-- From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 19:22:03 EDT 1999 Article: 689482 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!btnet-peer!btnet!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: A Question for the "Polish History Society" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:06:25 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <381544E1.74A010A1@catskill.net> References: <01bf1ea1$75f93ee0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689482 soc.culture.polish:192111 Two Amici briefs were filed in the Sixth Circuit US Court of Appeals 1) some International Society of Jewish lawyers 2) by Polish Historical Society Needless to say these were opposing briefs. I will send you the copy of that brief 40 + page brief if you send me copy of the video of Eichmann trial and list the "ten public libraries in [your ]Allentown PA area which have IMT proceedings. Polina Ps I no longer have the Jewish brief just their application for leave. You can also contact PHS at POB 8024 Stamford, CT 06905. They might have more complete record. The PHS amicus circulated widely among revisionists and holocasutians and was discussed in the mainstream newspapers at the time of its submission. Of course, The Polish Historical Society was called as a Nazi-group in these papers. "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > In several threads on sci.skeptic and alt.revisionism it has been claimed > that the "Polish History Society" filed an Amicus brief in the John > Demjanjuk case. > > The filing of such a brief requires an Order of Court and is always noted > in the docket. > > A check of the relevant dockets shows that no application to file such a > brief was ever filed in any case, that no Order was ever issued permitting > the filing of such a brief, and that no such bried was ever filed. > Moreover, all of the cases involving Demjanjuk were published and none > indicated, as is standard practice, that such a brief was filed. > > Can you provide a citation for an Amicus brief filed by the "Polish > Hisotry Society" or are the people who claim that such a brief exists, > mistaked or dishonest. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Tue Oct 26 19:22:04 EDT 1999 Article: 689697 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Why Jewish diaspora is active and Polish slumbers Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:41:06 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 289 Message-ID: <38162E01.93F26AEA@catskill.net> References: <19991026061722.15652.qmail@www0x.netaddress.usa.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689697 soc.culture.polish:192178 soc.culture.ukrainian:59756 Guten Abend Dear Ted, Occasionally you write logical and comprehensible postings and it is worthwhile to respond to them. See, the end of the world is not near because some do not respond to your posts because when warranted we do. Your contra-argument about Israel is excellent. Still I think my theory is correct. Diasporas start to be active when their homelands are in trouble. Do you remember how active we were during the Solidarity era?? Or even during the more recent flood of the century??? Israel is in perpetual danger and it is a perpatually welfare state or a beggar which can not exist and will instantly collapse if the billions of $$$ and DM do not arrive on time. Every Jew knows it. Are you old enough to remember when the Arabs were totally feeble, backward and illiterate that is during late 1940s and 1950's and Israel was not afraid of them since soviets did not support them, Jewish diaspora understood this situation and leisurly forgot about the Holocaust. With the conclusions of the Nuremberg Trials for years no one bothered to mention the Holocaust or Auschwitz. You might say that the term of the Holocaust was invented during the Eichmann trial and this is a good argument but the 4,000,000 dead at Auschwitz were proven in this Court and I challenge you to find the term Auschwitz in the New York Times Index for years 1946-1961. But When the Soviets linked with Nasser and the security of the Israel became questionable Jewish diaspora started to get active and went into overdrive after the Six Days War. I am sure that while today most of us eats pierogi, dances Polkas and thinks how to cheat the IRS (an all-American pass time) or each other, when the Russia gets stronger and the united Germans start to reproduce and the sixt partition of Poland will loom (because we did not link with Ukrainians) then our Diaspora will get active again Greetings to all of you and God bless you, Poolina PS Incidentally dziendobry in Ukrainian is dobryjden', zdrastwujte is in Russian. Ted Pioro wrote: > Dear "Polin", zdrawstwujte: > Following your way of thinking "independence creates a passivity" it should be > said that Israelis fit in, but the truth is opposite for they are more active > now than they were before gaining their independence. How can you explain this > phenomenon and how you see the possibility of activating Ukrainian and Polish > Diasporas? > Sincerely - Ted Pioro with BUFFS as below and with doswidanja dlja tebja. > > ---- > polin wrote: > > Dobryj den' > > To tease you especially my Polish folk, to get attention and to push you > into action, I greeted you in Ukrianian. > > For a holocaust revisionist historian an answer to the question posed below > is simple. > > It will beome even more simple if I include in the list of active diasporas > Ukrainians and Irishmen and Poles before the end of the WWI (First WW). > > Now I am sure you see, that diasporas are active only while their country > lacks INDEPENDENCE. > > After the WWII Poland have had quasi and then full independence. There for > all immigrants got involved in gettin more $$$ and more $$$ and do not dare > to opose Jewish defamation because they are afraid of loosing $$$ > > I am too busy to list prominents of the Irish, Ukrianian and Polish WW I > diasporas. > > You readers do it and continue > > Why only Holocaust revisionist can come with the above answer : because we > revisionist are not blinded by any myths and on the contrary we dehoax them > > Polina > > wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > > Before You criticize anybody, consider what did YOU personally (and > > Polish emigration generally) did for Poland. IMHO Polish emigration > > (and emigrations of other postcommunist countries except Baltic > > countries) is only able to different kind of "preaching" but not to do > > anything with any sense... > > Only in Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia their disaporas were really > > involved in changes and quite helpful. They even bacame ministers and > > event presidents. > > Why other disaporas are so bad? > > cheers > > > > Klaudiusz > > http://www.geocities.com/kwesolek/c-europe.html > > > > ted pioro wrote: > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe/?start=751 > > > Sz. Panie K. Wesolek (sorry - in Polish): > > > No i kto jest winny, ze projekt o dekomunizacji nie przeszedl? Pan, > > Panie > > > Wesolek, bowiem za malo wlozyl wysilku dla wyjasnienia ludziom obludy > > > komunizmu za ktora to oblude przelewali krew, o czym nizej w t.zw. > > BUFFS: > > > > > > > > > Month of September was a proper time to remind everybody how it came > > to the > > > WWII out of which emerged State of Israel and how to avoid similar > > conflicts > > > in the Third Millenium. Read this: > > > > > > INTERESTING URL RECOMMENDED BY HISTORY BUFF(S) > > > From: "Brian Wiesc" bwiesc@hotmail.com > > > > > > The URL http://www.hollyland.com > > > brings forth an astonishing message that Adolf Hitler was the Founder > > of > > > Israel. Some historians have checked authencity of such claim and, > > encouraged > > > by a German Court Ruling of 1995 which permits distribution of the > > book ADOLF > > > HITLER - BEGRUENDER ISRAELS, translated it into English (in Poland > > into > > > Polish) and published under the title ADOLF HITLER - FOUNDER OF > > ISRAEL, and > > > subtitle ISRAEL IN WAR - WITH JEWS. Distribution of said book in the > > U.S. is > > > carried in the NEW CENTURY PRESS and the MODJESKIS' SOCIETY, the > > Publisher. > > > Author of said book, Hennecke Kardel, 20 years ago suggested that the > > greatest > > > conflict in the history of HUMANKIND was the Israeli-Jewish > > interference into > > > affairs of European nations. He pointed out that the WWII was a > > direct result > > > of this interference. Whether it was possible, whether it was a fact > > or > > > imagination of the Author only, whether it will help to avoid military > > > conflicts in the future, you should read the book. YOU BE THE JUDGE! > > The most > > > recently waged war among Jews about their "Chooseness" confirms the > > book's > > > subtitle. In the book the Publisher states that in 1913 in Vienna J. > > Stalin > > > (like in 1924 A.Hitler) wrote his own "MEIN KAMPF", but by V. Lenin > > it was > > > ignored because the goal was to materialize K. Marx's idea of > > destruction of > > > capitalism and GOD, causing 65 million humans to perish before the > > end of WWII > > > in the USSR alone. And because very renown Rabbis, Humanists > > (Atheists), and > > > other Jewish thinkers declare that GOD not exist at all, and J.W. > > Rice by his > > > book of 1997 GOD ON TRIAL agreed with, it seems that the Publisher's > > new > > > initiative to put the HISTORY OF MANKIND and GOD YAHVE on a TRIAL is > > correct > > > and justified. The recommended book is a first step forward. The > > Publisher > > > discerns the HUMANKIND from the MANKIND, because the TORAH (BIBLE) > > authorizes > > > this. Therefore it is also worthy of attention the REVELATION in the > > given > > > URL. > > > > > > Any comments or additions to this, please e-mail: mosc@england.com > > > Last updated on 03/15/99 08:26 PM > > > > > > --- > > > And now what did say about those historical events Rabbi Stephen C. > > Lerner and > > > Mark Jay Mirsky on page 21 in their book MY SEARCH FOR THE MESSIAH, > > New York, > > > 1977 is this: > > > "Perhaps the founding of the state of Israel, enthusiasm for western > > science, > > > and the EXPERIMENT WITH THAT UNIVERSALIST JEWISH HERESY, MARXISM, has > > absorbed > > > the energies of our most creative spirits....and Judaism will begin > > to step > > > into its vital and dangerous responsibilities among the nations." > > > --- > > > And now a word of competitor: > > > > > > "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized > > nation had > > > full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more > > efficient, > > > and the world will follow our lead into the future!" > > > > > > Adolph Hitler, 1935. > > > > > > --- > > > As if the above is not enough, read this: > > > > > > "The Communist soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows, that > > just as in > > > the Russian revolution the triumph of Communism was the triumph of > > Judaism, so > > > also in the triumph of Fascism will triumph Judaism." (A Program for > > the Jews > > > and Answer to All Anti-Semites, pages 143-144 by Rabbi Harry Waton, > > New York, > > > 1939). And on pages 36 and 37 he consequently wrote: > > > "The communists are Marxists, bolshevists, internationalists, Jews, > > enemies of > > > the Aryans and their culture. Soviet Russia is ruled by Jews and > > barbarians > > > that are incapable of culture.This, then, is the first step in the > > PROGRAM: > > > the Jews must reconcile themselves with Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy > > and > > > fascism generally." > > > > > > In this way Rabbi H. Waton has confirmed Hennecke Kardel's claim that > > the > > > MEGA-HOLOCAUST had been caused by GENOCIDAL programming of Elders of > > Zion > > > (1903) accordingly with the Will of Jahve (read the Holy Bible/Torah). > > > --- > > > One more source of knowledge should also not bother you: > > > > > > The U.S. Senator Daniel P. Moynihan in the Chapter "The Encounter with > > > Communism" of his book SECRECY, New York, 1998, has revealed how > > before 1917 > > > the communist Jews infiltrated U.S. Government and in 1933 this > > climaxed in > > > recognition of the murderous Soviet Union as a > > > partner of the U.S. > > > ---- > > > "Indeed, we [Jews] were at the leading edge of communist > > totalitarianism, one > > > of the most murderous movements of the 20th century." -- Barbara > > Amiel, > > > Maclean's Magazine, September 27, 1999 > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > For more revelations look into the > > !!!! > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > "Klaudiusz Wesolek" wrote: > > > The text of the speach of Mariusz Kaminski in the debate on > > decommunization > > > in Polish Parliament (sorry - in Polish) > > > http://www.ligarepublikanska.pl/dekomunizacja/kaminski1.htm > > > > > > here , you may see how did they vote: > > > http://www.ligarepublikanska.pl/dekomunizacja/glosowanie.htm > > > > > > unfortunately the draft law on decommunization in Poland was > > rejected..... > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Klaudiusz > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Click on Instant Credit Card Approval at > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1274 > > > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1272 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:04 EDT 1999 Article: 689720 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: compulsive-obsessive Polina ??Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:30:33 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 99 Message-ID: <38163999.9E972BDB@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689720 soc.culture.polish:192186 soc.culture.german:142795 soc.culture.russian:159863 John Talmudicaly splits hair and veers of the principal of the matter. The fact that Justice Jacson lowered himself to using dirty tricks on Spear with vaporisation while he had or should have abandance of uncontrovertible evidence is a great embarassment to this entire [Show] Trial. John also snipped out my questions how Jackson arrived at such "indirect" in the first place e.g. prevarication of Jackson's or survisor's Who cares about Nurember?? I do not. The Sulzberger's New York Times did not even care about Auschwitz for years. But about that subject in the next posting. Polina, PS Some readers asked me in e-mail how come that I do not react to invectives slurs personals and gutter language of my holocaustian opponents. My response is the following. 1) I know that I will never convince about anything Mr Morris Drs Keren and Gorski a.k.a ORAC or Yale or Philps or even K. Mc Vay. HOwever, 2) I use them as convenient sounding board and use their frequently irrational and uncivil responses as a forum 3) I am not afraid that by stating that I will lose them. They are primarlily compulsive-obsessive arguers and only secondarily Holocasutians. No reason, NOTHING will stop compulsive-obsessive individual. There are no effective therapies known for this condition or a trait. 4) HOw do I know that they are compulsive obsessive? Because they do not heed the Holocaustianity party line which forbids debate with Revisionist and because of their persistance and lack of rationality and reason in their responses. 5) How do I know that I am not compulsive-obsessive [CO] myself? a) CO restrict themself to one subject be it Holocaustianity or brushing theeth before and after every meal or even drink, or washing their hands 66 times a day before and after opening the refrigerator. MOreover CO could not stop their rituals or activity. You will notice that I post on various subjects and with temporary hiatuses (hiati ?? in Latin?) when I am busy with every day matters. For me posting on the net is an educational entertainment. b) virtually all CO are pedantic even in spelling and I am to lazy to bother to do the spell check since I learned that you will read me anyway atrocious errors in spelling and syntax as well as occasional inaccuracies in the historical details. Greetings to all from Polina even to my oponents John Morris wrote: > In <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> in alt.revisionism, on 25 Oct 1999 19:06:21 > GMT, kmcvay@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote: > > >In article <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net>, > >polin wrote: > > >>Astonishing! > > >The only "astonishing" item here is your apparently deliberate attempt > >to suggest that unproven information from the Indictment had any > >bearing upon the Judgment. > > I must demur. Using the keywords "Auschwitz," "atomic," and > "experiment," I am unable to find any reference in the Nuremberg > indictments to an experiment to vaporize Jews at Auschwitz with atomic > weapons. > > It is plain that Jackson's question--the sole reference in the entire > proceedings--was merely an indirection to induce Speer to testify > about rumours which the Nazis employed to prolong the war. > > You are right that there is no question whether Jackson attempted to > prove that such an experiment took place. He did not. > > This thread has become a mere demonstration of Mr. Dragan's > credulousness when dealing with information from Revisionist web > pages. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:04 EDT 1999 Article: 689725 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:50:21 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 257 Message-ID: <38163E3C.9E5AC731@catskill.net> References: <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689725 soc.culture.polish:192187 soc.culture.german:142805 soc.culture.russian:159869 Good evening, Finally, an excellent rebuttal and posting (below) from Mr Candide if I do not mix up Candide and Odrzanski. Instead sobriquetic oneliners true and excellent rebuttal. Bravo. Candide states he is not aware that Polish Gov in Exile was presenting fake evidence on their own. Dr. Sawicki was the Polish presenter of the Treblinka industrial murder by steaming 2,000,000 Jews to death. Ask Polish Historical Society for the complete text. They have about 100,000 pages of archival material (about one cubic meter) on Treblinka It was Dr. Dragan from STamford and T. Lazarski from the Hoover Institue in California who jointly discovered the galleys of the article about Treblinka steam chambers from the July 1943 issue of the XXth Century the leading political and intellectual magazine of the British Empire. >From this research it became evident that Prof Sir Charles Dodd the pres. of the Royal Soc of Physicians and Surgeons and inventor of the synthetic stilbestrol was the first WW II Holocaust Revisionist and that the movement got born during "taking the tea" at the nearby restaurant La Escargote (Pod Slimakiem) still in existance by Dodd and the editor of the magazine. Strangely this is within the shouting distance of the domicile of David Irving according to the last May's NYT a respected historian with inappropriate perspective, no longer a Neo-Nazi or lunatic. Greetings from Polina and thanks for an excellent post. Candide wrote: > John Morris wrote: > > > > Candide wrote: > > > > > >What on earth is wrong with you people? Are > > >lies and insults your only argument in > > >discussion? > > > > >I gave you a clear link to: > > >http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > > > The first thing you should understand is that Carlos Porter is a very > > bad liar. > > > > >It is a document (translated for your > > >convenience by Carlos W. Porter) introduced > > >by the Soviets into evidence at the Nuremberg > > >trial. It opens with the following statement: > > > > Yes, it is a document, but it contains no supporting documentary > > evidence of the Soviet charge. > > > > >----------------------------- > > >DOCUMENT 054 USSR > > > > >Report by a Special Soviet Commission, 24 > > >January 1944, concerning the shooting of > > >Polish officer prisoners of war in the > > >forest of Katyn. The executions had been > > >carried out in autumn 1941 by the German > > >"Staff of the Construction Battalion > > >537". In spring 1943 the Germans, by > > >blackmailing witnesses into giving false > > >evidence and by other means, had tried to > > >make it appear that the Soviet NKWD was > > >responsible for the shooting of the 11,000 > > >victims. > > >----------------------------- > > > > >This "document" is an elaborate hoax > > >describing in minute detail (on some forty > > >pages of text) how, where and when the > > >Germans killed the Polish officers whose > > >mass graves were found at Katyn. > > > > >Read it and tell me: is this not a sufficient > > >example of false evidence given to the > > >Tribunal by the NKVD? > > > > Without a doubt, you have identified a single piece of false evidence > > presented by the Soviets. > > > > But that is not the same as claiming, "It is a well known fact that > > most (if not all) of the documents presented at Nuremberg trials were > > fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet political police, dominated almost > > entirely by jews." > > I hope it is obvious that this was an accidental > error on my part. What I intended to say was: > "... most (if not all) of the documents > presented by the Soviets at Nuremberg trials > were fabricated ..." > > > > > >Despite your statements to the contrary, the > > >Katyn massacre WAS very well part of of the > > >indictment at Nuremberg. Here is a quote > > >from D. Irving's 'Nuremberg, The Last > > >Battle': > > > > No one claimed that it wasn't part of the indictment. In fact, it was > > part of Count Three: War Crimes. > > > > What Yale states--and it is quite true--no German defendant was > > convicted of the Katyn massacre. Rather, the defence successfully > > rebutted the charge. > > Well, not "quite true". None of the German > defendants in Nuremberg was found guilty of > that particular crime, true, but on the base of > the same false evidence several German > defendants WERE convicted and publicly > hanged in Leningrad, during the Nuremberg > trial. > > Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some > freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg. > They were integral part of the prosecuting > team of the IMT. It was that international > prosecuting team who made the Katyn > massacre a part of the indictment, and it was > the same team who offered bogus Soviet > documents as evidence. By doing it, the > Western prosecutors not only compromised > their professional integrity; they commited a > criminal offence. > > > > > >"(...) Most outrageously, on General > > >Rudenkoâ*™s insistence at the very last meeting > > >of the prosecuting staffs the indictment was > > >amended to include the murder in the Katyn > > >forest of 11,000 Polish officers. > > > > Irving is right. For once Revisionists are right: it is outrageous > > that the Soviets tried to pass off their own war crimes as Nazi > > crimes. > > > > >Point 3, paragraph C of the indictment would > > >read: 'In September 1941 eleven thousand > > >Polish prisoners-of-war were killed in the > > >Katyn forest, near Smolensk.' " [end quote]. > > > > >So, not only did Soviets introduce false > > >evidence at Nuremberg but they also managed > > >to attribute their own war crimes to Germans. > > >And, as if murdering 15,000 (not 11,000) of > > >defenceless Polish prisoners was not enough, > > >they also staged a trial of some German > > >officers who were "directly responsible" for > > >Katyn massacre, and publicly hanged seven of > > >them in Leningrad. The film documenting this > > >execution was shown to the international > > >members of the Tribunal as part of the after > > >hours entertainment. > > > > > >The Document 054 USSR quoted above is by > > >no means the only example of the false > > >testimony fabricated by NKVD and introduced > > >as evidence at Nuremberg. There are other > > >"documents", testifying for example to > > >4,000,000 gassed at Auschwitz or describing > > > > Again, this is a Soviet report with no supporting documentation. > > Yes, another outrageous lie offered as > evidence. > > > In > > this particular case, the Soviets estimated the crematory capacity at > > Auschwitz and assumed that it ran flat out most of the time. This was > > a bad assumption as subsequent historical research has borne out. > > > > The Tribunal did not cite the Soviet report in its judgment, though. > > Instead thet cited the testimony of Rudolph Hoess. At Nuremberg, > > Hoess claimed that Eichmann had told him 2.5 million. But when tried > > in Poland, Hoess realized that the actual death toll was closer to 1.1 > > million which is, in fact, very close to the death toll cited by > > Western historians. > > > > >the execution steam chambers > > > > Sorry. That was part of the US presentation and was based upon Polish > > reports of observations made at a distance at Treblinka. If Polish > > winters are as cold as the winters where I live, automotive engine > > exhaust looks a lot like steam. > > Which would suggest Soviets were not alone > in presenting false evidence. Do you have any > reference to those mysterious "Polish reports" > confusing an automotive engine with a steam > chamber? > > > > or underground > > >electrocution chambers or pedal operated > > >killing machines, > > > > You've got me on how gas chambers could be mistaken for electrocution > > chambers, but I wonder if the other one isn't a mistake for the metal > > frame that held prisoners' heads in place while the "doctors" took > > racial specimen pictures. > > If you saw what pathetic structures pass for > those so called "gas chambers" in those so > called "factories of death" you could very > easily mistake not only a gas chamber for an > electrocution chamber but the whole "factory" > for a chicken shack. > > > > all of which have since been > > >proved to be hoaxes. > > > > Hoaxes or erroneous information that was long since forgotten until > > Holocaust deniers had to find something to justify their lies. > > Which lies? And by the way, wasn't your > battlecry supposed to be: "Never forget!"? ;-) > > > > Mr. Porter's website > > >contains translations of quite a number of > > >those "documents", all duly numbered and > > >referenced as part of authentic Nuremberg > > >evidence. > > > > >I suggest that you read some of them before > > >publicly making hysterical asses of > > >yourselves. > > > > I suggest you read Mr. Edeiken's essay on Carlos Porter's rather free > > attitude towards evidence before you are mistaken for yet another > > gullible fool: > > I see absolutely no point in wasting time on an > offensive troll whose polemic methods boil > down to statements like "you are a liar!" and > "Porter is full of shit!". > > As to Porter's attitude, I am not impressed by > it either, but it is rather irrelevant in this > discussion. He translated and published on the > web a series of outrageous, elaborate lies > submitted as evidence at the Nuremberg trial. I > am very grateful to him for making that > material available. If you think he made errors > or intentional misrepresentations, please, > share your findings with the rest of us. > > Pozdrowienia, > > Candide > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:04 EDT 1999 Article: 689727 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!easynet-tele!easynet.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: There ARE mass graves in T II air photos !!! >>ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:57:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: <38164004.24E72393@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192190 alt.revisionism:689727 soc.culture.ukrainian:59760 soc.culture.german:142806 John Morris wrote: > In <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Mon, 25 Oct > 1999 23:34:32 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear Dr. Orac, > > >You would prove revisionists wrong if you could show mass graves on air > >photos of Babi Yar or Treblinka II > > The mass graves are clear and distinct on the September 1944 Treblinka > II photo. It is just that neither you nor that apologist for child > molesters, John Ball, knows what to look for. > Dear Mr. Morris, Please also add that these mass graves measure about 400 square meters and are about 10% smaller than in Katyn. Thus in Treblinka II no more then about 4,000 Jews could be buried in this post-glacial dune. Polina > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:05 EDT 1999 Article: 689728 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:02:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 61 Message-ID: <3816412E.6FD795C2@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> <=DsUOFJ2L8ZOrATg0qODAZzCZO8z@4ax.com> <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689728 soc.culture.polish:192191 soc.culture.german:142808 soc.culture.russian:159871 Dear Mr Morris, 1) you are citing search on OCLC from a day or two ago. I was citing results >from about five years ago. Time accounts for diffrences. POlina Nureemberg Trial is non-contributory to the problem of physical evidence of the Holocaust/ Archeology, forinsic toxicology and air-photography are the primary and uncontrovertible fields which should be studied. Nuremberg is for you a primary diversion from the lack of physical hard evidence and for me is good only for intellectual relaxation and some smiles. Polina John Morris wrote: > In <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Mon, 25 Oct > 1999 15:18:05 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear John, > > >You are citing data from yeasterday. I cited availability from 1995. > > >I suspect you will castigate me for not perusing Internet in 1980s or 1970s > > >Have reason > > Have reason? Tell me how reasonable it is for you to prounounce > authoritatively on a trial record which you know only by what you have > read on Revisionist web pages. Tell me how reasonable it is for you > to claim the right to pronounce authoritatively simply because you > erroneously believe that the trial record is unavailable to you. > > I gave you a list of 22 libraries which allow interlibrary loan. If > you can't get across the river to the New York Public Library, have > them send it to your local library in Queens. > > You can use a web browser can't you? > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > Now you have no excuse for your ignorance. Read the Indictment and > Judgment in Volume I. That's the most important part. If you then > want to assess the validity or quality of the evidence cited in the > Judgment, *then* go to the individual testimonies of the defendants > and the testimonies of both prosecution and defense witnesses > regarding each defendant. > > Until then, shut up. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Fuch the world lets murder people." -- Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999 From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:05 EDT 1999 Article: 689730 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:10:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 98 Message-ID: <381642DC.9353D9B5@catskill.net> References: <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7v4tcr$1t9m$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689730 soc.culture.polish:192192 soc.culture.german:142809 soc.culture.russian:159872 Yes, I can show you that they should know. Polish Government in Exile introduced it apparently only after Jewish prompting. They knew from the Editors of the XXth Century and the President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons that that was silly rubbish. Do not take my word for it Ask Polish Historical Society POB 8024 Stamford CT 06905 for supporting documentation. Or you are consider Nuremberg prosecutors STUPID? You, a nobody, a legal and forensic layman, today know that the STEAMING story of 2,000,000 was false. How come the multitueds of professionals at Nurembers could not figure it out? I think they felt that this lie will fly and it flew for nearly four deacades, until the advent of Revisionism. Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Candide wrote: > > [...] > > >Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some > >freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg. > >They were integral part of the prosecuting > >team of the IMT. It was that international > >prosecuting team who made the Katyn > >massacre a part of the indictment, and it was > >the same team who offered bogus Soviet > >documents as evidence. By doing it, the > >Western prosecutors not only compromised > >their professional integrity; they commited a > >criminal offence. > > Was the Soviet evidence with respect to Katyn admitted? Prosecution > teams often introduce evidence at trial, only to find themselves > unable to prove the case. Witness the Simpson trial, for instance. Are > you suggesting that only charges which are guaranteed to be successful > in court should be allowed? I.e. should we throw out our entire legal > system? > > As it turned out, I would think everyone (but the Soviets, of course) > would be pleased. The Soviets lost their case, and stood exposed > before the world as the perpetrators of the crime. The bogus evidence > was rejected by the Tribunal, which conclusively refuted charges of "show > trial" in the process. > > [...] > > >> Again, this is a Soviet report with no supporting documentation. > > > >Yes, another outrageous lie offered as > >evidence. > > ..and rejected by the Tribunal - the system worked, and evidenciary > standards were applied fairly... > > [...] > > >> Sorry. That was part of the US presentation and was based upon Polish > >> reports of observations made at a distance at Treblinka. If Polish > >> winters are as cold as the winters where I live, automotive engine > >> exhaust looks a lot like steam. > > > >Which would suggest Soviets were not alone > >in presenting false evidence. Do you have any > >reference to those mysterious "Polish reports" > >confusing an automotive engine with a steam > >chamber? > > The reports did not confuse an engine with a chamber, they confused > the exhaust from an engine with steam. That isn't difficult to > understand. Again, this charge did not hold up, and was not proven. > I'd say that's another plus for the Tribunal. > > Can you show that the Prosecution _knew_ the "steam" evidence was > false at the time they entered it into the Indictment, as the Soviets > clearly knew their's was? I don't know of any evidence that will > permit us to do that - do you? > > [...] > > >If you saw what pathetic structures pass for > >those so called "gas chambers" in those so > >called "factories of death" you could very > >easily mistake not only a gas chamber for an > >electrocution chamber but the whole "factory" > >for a chicken shack. > > You have seen them, have you? Can you describe them for us? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:05 EDT 1999 Article: 689742 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.usa Subject: The gas chambers and the Nuremberg Trial Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:29:06 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38164752.A376B044@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192200 alt.revisionism:689742 soc.culture.german:142810 soc.culture.ukrainian:59761 soc.culture.usa:423780 Dear Madams and Sirs, The prolonged and interesting discussion about the Nuremberg Show Trials nears end. I would like to conclude it under a different title by translating from German a part of a recent letter by the father of the modern Holocaust Revisionism Prof Robert Faurisson from France: "The Verdict at Nuremberg. The [French] Fabius-Gayssot Law rules that the verdict of the Nuremberg International Tribunal will ber used a indicator of the magnitude of the [German] Crimes against Humanity and by used as a touch stone to judge and sentence those who deny these crimes. Thus one the matter of the homicidal gas chambers is epiphenomenal of this matter and the history of the Holocaust. HOwever it is uncontrovertible that among 84,000 words of the Nuremberg Verdict in its French edition, there are at most 540 words which in unclear and obfuscatory manner refer to homicidal gas chambers. This implies, that only 1/160th of the Verdict, or 0.62% words refers to this sine qua none, crucial matter. In other words, 99,38% of the Nuremberg International Tribunal Verdict does not bother with this subject." end of Faurisson's quote Sincerely, Polina Borowska, member of the Polish Historical Society PS Just for fun, I wrote letter to Prof Faurrison asking how many words in the verdict are devoted to typhus and other epidemics and delousing chambers. I bet five dollars that at least 5,000 words! From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:28 EDT 1999 Article: 192033 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:49:42 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 226 Message-ID: <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689359 soc.culture.polish:192033 soc.culture.german:142677 soc.culture.russian:159700 Dear Yale, It is irrelevant if evidentiary material submitted to the Tribunal was admitted into court records as evidence. The fact that such phoney material was ATTEMPTED , as you admit, to be presented casts indelible shadow on the rest of materials and entire Trial. Prosecutors and Judges being the Victors of the WW II had [theoretically] access to plethora and aboundance real incriminating evidece. They had multitudes of personel to reject obviously confabulatory stories and obligation to submit bona fide data. The fact that they, the almighty, attempted to submit fabrications for ever deprecated the credibility of the ENTIRE proceedings. Once a liar always a liar. Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed in fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic delusions of liberated and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their phoney stories. Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even a SCINTILLA of a questionable evidence. Nuremberg was not a mafia trial where it is exceedingly difficult to get accurate evidence. All Nazi archives were opened to the victors. They should not need questionable and emotional eyewitnesses. They should not need faked soviet evidence. It should be rejected in the prosecutors chambers and not by the judges! Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and Kransondar trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and Leningrad trial of January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to death for the Katyn massacre! The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged secretly while the victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged publicly. Greetings from Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > > Candide lied: > > > >> It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > >> the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > >> were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > >> political police, dominated almost entirely by > > >> jews. > > >> > > >> The most notorious examples of those false > > >> documents are the witness testimonies, the > > >> forensic report and other evidence produced at > > >> the trial of ten German officers accused of > > >> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > >> Katyn Forest. > > >> > > >> Nine of the accused have been found guilty. > > >> Seven of them were hanged and two died in > > >> Soviet gulags. > > >> > > >> After the fall of Communism, Russians have > > >> admitted that the Katyn massacre has in fact > > >> been committed by the NKVD and the > > >> evidence against the accused has been > > >> fabricated. > > >> > > >> Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > >> hanged Germans who had no business > > >> invading Poland at the first place, but in the > > >> eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > >> murdered in cold blood by the real > > >> masterminds of the Katyn mass murder, who > > >> shamelessly paraded at the trial as > > >> prosecutors, witnesses and experts. > > >> > > >> This but one example of seemingly endless list > > >> of false documents used as testimony at > > >> Nuremberg trials. > > >> > > >> More on the subject at: > > >> http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > >> http://www.cwporter.co.uk/two.htm > > > > to which a choir of jewish trolls replied > > (among other things): > > > > > > A lie from Candide: > > > This is, of course, historically stupid... > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of > the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > > > But you will lie for them > > > > > > There was no finding by the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. (...) > > > No person was, therefore, sentenced to death for the crime. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > > > but without beginning. > > > > > > The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > > > > In other words, you have absolutley NO proof. > > > (...) you have no evidence at all to support it. > > > > What on earth is wrong with you people? Are > > lies and insults your only argument in > > discussion? > > Because you ARE lying. > > > I gave you a clear link to: > > http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > Porter is full of shit. > > > It is a document (translated for your > > convenience by Carlos W. Porter) introduced > > by the Soviets into evidence at the Nuremberg > > trial. It opens with the following statement: > > That is incorrect. It was never introduced into evidence and was not used > as support for the judgment. > > ------------------ > > DOCUMENT 054 USSR > > > > Report by a Special Soviet Commission, 24 > > January 1944, concerning the shooting of > > Polish officer prisoners of war in the > > forest of Katyn. > > In fact the Tribunal rejected the document as not being admissible in > evidence. > > > This "document" is an elaborate hoax > > describing in minute detail (on some forty > > pages of text) how, where and when the > > Germans killed the Polish officers whose > > mass graves were found at Katyn. > > And was not part of the evidence at Nuremberg. > > > Read it and tell me: is this not a sufficient > > example of false evidence given to the > > Tribunal by the NKVD? > > But it was not part of the evidence at Nuremberg. It was rejected by the > Tribunal. > > In fact, in a heated exchange the American counsel stated that the Soviets > should be held in contempt for attemting to introduce it. > > > Despite your statements to the contrary, the > > Katyn massacre WAS very well part of of the > > indictment at Nuremberg. Here is a quote > > from D. Irving's 'Nuremberg, The Last > > Battle': > > But the judgment of the Tribunal was that their report was rejected and > the ultimate judgment was that no convincing evidence had been introduced. > > > So, not only did Soviets introduce false > > evidence at Nuremberg but they also managed > > to attribute their own war crimes to Germans. > > As has been pointed out the report youcite wsa not introduced into > evidence. > > > > The Document 054 USSR quoted above is by > > no means the only example of the false > > testimony fabricated by NKVD and introduced > > as evidence at Nuremberg. There are other > > "documents", testifying for example to > > 4,000,000 gassed at Auschwitz > > No such document was introduced into evidence. > > > or describing > > the execution steam chambers or underground > > electrocution chambers or pedal operated > > killing machines, all of which have since been > > proved to be hoaxes. > > No such evidence was introduced into evidence. > > > Mr. Porter's website > > contains translations of quite a number of > > those "documents", all duly numbered and > > referenced as part of authentic Nuremberg > > evidence. > > That is incorrect. The ignorant Porter cited no such admission into > evidence. He cited only to the record of the trial. A record includes > material which was not introduced into evidence. He was too ignorant to > know the difference. > > > I suggest that you read some of them before > > publicly making hysterical asses of > > yourselves. > > I suggest you learn what you are talking about before you lie like you did > here. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:28 EDT 1999 Article: 192087 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:34:32 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192087 alt.revisionism:689435 soc.culture.ukrainian:59712 soc.culture.german:142715 Dear Dr. Orac, You would prove revisionists wrong if you could show mass graves on air photos of Babi Yar or Treblinka II and explained why about 50 mass graves at the Treblinka I are clearly seen in these wartime reconnaissance photos. Exhumation of these graves revealed about 100 corpses in each, but no traces of gas chambers and no humongous mass graves to correspond to the 3,500,000 or 2,2000,000 or even the 890,000 victims have been found. 50,000 old and sick Jews were allegedly shot by the Nazis at the Treblinka II Lazaret. Excavation conducted under the egis of a Jewish Judge Magistrate Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz from the District Court at Siedlce revealed some rubbish, badges of Jewish policemen (Ordnungdienst) absence of skeletons allegedly cremated and most importantly absence of at least 50,000 slugs and casings. Instead the careful archeology of the site discovered about 90 various coins among them several US pennies. Again, why we do find skeletons of Polish Ukrainian Byelorussian, Russian and even Finish victims of WWII murdered or executed by beligerents but we can not find the remains of millions of Jews the Nazis did not have the time to cremate Greetings from Polina Orac wrote: > In article <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > wrote: > > > polin : > > (...) > > >Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR > > (...) > > > > Let's revise this comparison. > > > > They told the truth. You ask : "prove, that our absurds aren't lies". > > And then, when we do prove that their absurd statements are lies," they > keep repeating them! > > [Snip] > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:29 EDT 1999 Article: 192091 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Sacrificed Inca children >>> Eichman was soaked with Thorazine not blood from Jewish geysers ...Geysers of blood in Lemberg >>Eichmann: "I Saw the Most Horrifying Thing I Have Ever Seen" Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:52:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 214 Message-ID: <38152597.64BF912C@catskill.net> References: <380E864A.8CACEC@catskill.net> <19991020231842.25871.00000215@ng-ff1.aol.com> <380FFDFE.58F680C3@catskill.net> <7ur7e2$to6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3812B5B3.C21A73D@catskill.net> <7v26e6$ftk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689438 soc.culture.polish:192091 soc.culture.ukrainian:59713 Dear Philip, It is difficult to carry out discourse with a Talmudist. In general for the benefit of other readers I will explain again. I am not sure when Eichman visited Lemberg and was allegedly saw geysers of blood. Such phenomenon can not be seen and has never been documented in summer or winter, because the human skin prevents even putrefaction gasses from escaping from the human body and this is the cause of the postmortem bloating. Moreover, decomposition of the human body is severely dependent on the temperature. It stops below 32F virtually completely, what is most explicitly illustrated in the latest National Geographic. After 500 year sacrificed Inka children look like asleep, one girls face is partially darkend by lightning. Most of the Jews were allgedly killed in Lemberg after December 1941. In any case it is my understanding that Eichmann could not be sooner in that city. In late September and early October it snowed and rained in Kyiv south of Lemberg. I should not be trusted nor Yale. Please call your district or county or state Chief Medical Examiner Office and speak with any forensic pathologist. Unlike most of the other doctors forensic pathologists love to talk. Regular doctors are hearing talking patients all the time. Forensic pathologists patienst are permanently silent and for this reason they love to share their knowledge with alive individuals. Ask them if they ever heard about geysers of blood errupting from any graves. There are forensic pathologists who specialize in mass grave examination. They are affiliated with the Amnesty International and their group is located in Boston. Long distance calls are cheep 10 cents per one minute. Instead pondering call the Amnesty of Boston's Physicians for Human Rights or if you live in Europe call Hague Tribunal. The prosecutor will give you their experts coordinates. I find discussion with my oponent pointless. And what do you think? Polina Philip Mathews wrote: > In article <3812B5B3.C21A73D@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > Dear Philip, > > > > Your citations support my contention. > > False. > > > > > Burial slows down decomposition > > That's not what you said. You led the reader to believe burial causes > the process to esstentially cease. That is false. The process proceeds > in the same way, at a slower pace. > > > > And low temperature you did not mentioned (on purpose???) stops > decomposition. Look at > > the recent National Gegraphic. Inca children sacrificed in the Ades > 500 years ago look > > "like new". > > Explain how temperature applies to the exact example given, Eichmann's > visit, which started this thread. > > > > > Also waxy degeneration, as one found in Belzec, does not occur above > the ground > > especially in summer. > > Irrelevant to the point. Stick to the point which you raised, which has > now been shown to be erroneous. > > > > > Also bloating does not occur under ground in mass graves due to slow > production of gas > > and heavy pressure. > > False. The same process occurs, only at a slower rate. > > > > > Moreover, Nazis begun to form Ghetto and kill Jews on mass scale > (600,000 in total > > according to Nuremberg data) in Lemberg in December 1941. > > This is irrelevant to the Eichmann example. > > > > The story of ground swelling and heaving over the mass graves like > wave on the sea > > described by survivors is pure martyrological fiction. > > > > False, as has been shown. You've offered large amounts of > unsubstantiated opinion; you've stated the decomposition process stops > for buried corpses, which is not true; and you're now trying to > introduce other killings at other times in order to confuse the original > issue, which is the Eichmann visit. > > As I think is clear, you have no basis for any of the assertions you've > made with respect to the "impossibility" of what Eichmann saw. > > Philip Mathews > > > Polina > > > > Philip Mathews wrote: > > > > > In article <380FFDFE.58F680C3@catskill.net>, > > > polin wrote: > > > > Dear Philip, > > > > > > > > The geysers of blood are sheer hydrolic and medical impossibility. > > > > > > > > In mass grave blood is contained within the skin which can be > described as a tight > > > > leather sac and the bodies are gradually dehydrated by the > 'hydrostatic' pressure > > > > of the soil or corpses above. Think of cottage cheese being > turned in a cheese > > > > cloth between two boards into solid cheese. > > > > > > > > In the cool or cold and anerobic (oxygen deprived) millieu of the > mass grave the > > > > bacterial decomposition essentially ceases. Instead the slow > growing fungi take > > > > over. But fungi generally do not produce gases like the anerobic > bacteria at body > > > > temperature and above (85-105F) or yeast at 65-75F. > > > > > > This is not true. Buried bodies undergo the same five stages of > decomposition > > > (Fresh Stage, Bloated Stage, Decay Stage, Dry Stage and Remains > Stage) as > > > bodies left above ground . > > > > > > What does occur in buried corpses is a different rate of > decomposition. > > > > > > (begin quote) > > > > > > Keh (1985) presented Casper's rule, which states that decomposition > in air > > > for one week is approximately equal to decomposition in water for > two weeks, > > > which is approximately equal to decomposition underground for eight > weeks. > > > Others have also found that burial greatly slows down the rate of > > > decomposition (Mann et al., 1990; Turner, 1987). > > > > > > (end quote) > > > > > > Using Insects to Determine the Post Mortem Interval > > > Dr. Bob Randall > > > University of Saskatchewan > > > > > > During this inevitable process of decomposition the corpse > eventually reaches > > > the Bloated Stage. > > > > > > (begin quote) > > > > > > The bloated stage of decomposition begins with the start of bloating > and ends > > > with the cessation of bloating (Early and Goff, 1986; Rodriguez et > al., 1983; > > > Turner, 1987). This stage of decomposition is characterized by > putrefaction, > > > during which the gases produced by anaerobic bacteria cause the > abdomen to > > > inflate. The internal temperature of the carcass starts to rise > above > > > ambient temperatures due to the activity of maggots and bacteria > (Early and > > > Goff, 1986; Greenberg, 1991). The stench also becomes strong. This > stage is > > > reported to last three days in the summer, and five to seven days in > the > > > spring and fall for fully exposed human corpses (Rodriguez and Bass, > 1983). > > > This stage ends when the gases escape and the bloated carcass > collapses. > > > > > > (end quote) > > > > > > Ibid > > > > > > It is at this stage that large numbers of bodies, releasing gas > mixed with > > > bodily fluids, could produce the phenomenon reported by Eichmann and > others. > > > > > > Philip Mathews > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy. > > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:29 EDT 1999 Article: 192092 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Quaintities of Soviet evidence at Nuremberg Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:06:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 79 Message-ID: <381528C5.722C973F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> <7v27if$rn2$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689443 soc.culture.polish:192092 soc.culture.german:142717 soc.culture.russian:159759 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Do not accuse me for not having NIT proceedings. I complained about the fact that they were hardly accessible even to a ardent student. I also stated that I do not care about these proceedings as the entire trial was a show trial. It is not worth to spent time to study them to just slightly embarass the WW II Holocaust believers. For years I hammer that the importrant this in this argument is the lack of the physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews. I do not wish to digress into trivia such as [extorted] testimonies of alleged perpetrators or martyrological group fantasies of survivors. Lets go back to the starting point and start looking for the bones of the 3-4M Jews the Nazis did not have time to cremate. This is what the prosecution at Nuremberg should have done first place. Instead they were talking about atomic energy and vaporizing prisoners with it e.g. Justice Jackson. Again, Mr Mc Vay where are the bones of the not cremated victims?? Once we establish their location then it will be worthwhile to review and consider as accurate testimonies of survivors and official Allied documents including Soviets. Polina Incidentally, you holocaustians blame Poles for the 4,000,000 Auschwitz hoaxy figure. Whom will you blame for the 600,000 victims of Lemberg etc??? The commissar of the Sovinform was Solomon Lozovsky. Smirnov, Porkovsky and most of the Soviet staff was also Jewish ... coincidence??? randomness??? Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > [...] > > >There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing > >designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, > >300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on > >this subject > >about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I > >do not have > >handy > > I have the "red set" here - it contains the documents listed as > evidence (but not necessarily introduced and accepted as such) for the > first tribunal. > > The designation "#6" is meaningless with respect to documents > submitted by the Soviets. > > Most of the documents submitted came from the American unit in Paris, > as has already been pointed out to you. > > What seems clear to me is that you have no real idea how many > documents were submitted by the Soviet Union, or how many were > submitted by others, and you have no idea whatsoever how many of the > Soviet documents were or were not accepted into evidence. > > It is also clear, from your own statements, that you do not have a > copy of any of the Nuremberg publications - i.e. you do not have the > red set (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca) which lists the > documents. > > That being the case, I cannot understand how you can make assertions - > which are essentially meaningless (to be kind) to anyone who _does_ > have the publications. > > Perhaps you can explain? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:29 EDT 1999 Article: 192093 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Quaintities of Soviet evidence at Nuremberg Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:06:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 79 Message-ID: <381528E0.D5A0B6DC@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> <7v27if$rn2$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689444 soc.culture.polish:192093 soc.culture.german:142718 soc.culture.russian:159760 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Do not accuse me for not having NIT proceedings. I complained about the fact that they were hardly accessible even to a ardent student. I also stated that I do not care about these proceedings as the entire trial was a show trial. It is not worth to spent time to study them to just slightly embarass the WW II Holocaust believers. For years I hammer that the importrant this in this argument is the lack of the physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews. I do not wish to digress into trivia such as [extorted] testimonies of alleged perpetrators or martyrological group fantasies of survivors. Lets go back to the starting point and start looking for the bones of the 3-4M Jews the Nazis did not have time to cremate. This is what the prosecution at Nuremberg should have done first place. Instead they were talking about atomic energy and vaporizing prisoners with it e.g. Justice Jackson. Again, Mr Mc Vay where are the bones of the not cremated victims?? Once we establish their location then it will be worthwhile to review and consider as accurate testimonies of survivors and official Allied documents including Soviets. Polina Incidentally, you holocaustians blame Poles for the 4,000,000 Auschwitz hoaxy figure. Whom will you blame for the 600,000 victims of Lemberg etc??? The commissar of the Sovinform was Solomon Lozovsky. Smirnov, Porkovsky and most of the Soviet staff at Nuremberg were also Jewish ... coincidence??? randomness??? Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > [...] > > >There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing > >designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, > >300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on > >this subject > >about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I > >do not have > >handy > > I have the "red set" here - it contains the documents listed as > evidence (but not necessarily introduced and accepted as such) for the > first tribunal. > > The designation "#6" is meaningless with respect to documents > submitted by the Soviets. > > Most of the documents submitted came from the American unit in Paris, > as has already been pointed out to you. > > What seems clear to me is that you have no real idea how many > documents were submitted by the Soviet Union, or how many were > submitted by others, and you have no idea whatsoever how many of the > Soviet documents were or were not accepted into evidence. > > It is also clear, from your own statements, that you do not have a > copy of any of the Nuremberg publications - i.e. you do not have the > red set (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca) which lists the > documents. > > That being the case, I cannot understand how you can make assertions - > which are essentially meaningless (to be kind) to anyone who _does_ > have the publications. > > Perhaps you can explain? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:29 EDT 1999 Article: 192097 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:37:40 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 154 Message-ID: <38153013.D4B3BF0@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> <7v2f6c$1l5g$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689452 soc.culture.polish:192097 soc.culture.german:142721 soc.culture.russian:159761 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Effectivelly cornered you lost your cool, which by itself is an evidence that you have no strong and valid arguments just adjectives. While the First World War holocaust was completely forgotten and the WW II Holocaust withers, under the pressure of revisionists, and the Holocaustians bemoan passing off of Survivors (if they pass away how we are going to prove it to the future generations - a standard media cry), you are trying to preserve the authority of the Nuremberg Trial. Valiant effort Mr Mc Vay, but it will not do. To be belivable you must come with physical evidence. I am not 100% revisionist and I am not Nazi apologist. For example lately I hammer the unexplicable fact that about half of Polish clergy died at Dachau while it was not so with other nationalities. I am much disliked by quite a few revisionists and virtually all anti-Semites and to the same extent by you. I think I am the only revisionist who appreciates your web page. I think I am one of very few revisionists ready to become holocaustian again once solid physical evidence of industrial murder by the Nazis is presented. Will you become a revisionist when such evidence will not be forthcoming. And where are cremation pits and remains of mass graves which contained 48,000,000 victims of Belzec (every hour on the hour 10,000 vctims) or the 1,500,000 victims or at least 600,000 victims. Why do you think Polish authorities drag their feet with releasing archeology of Belzec or the Hydrokop report. These studies should confirm the industrial killing and should be publicized on front pages of all papers. And why Nazis did not completely covered the traces of their crime??? Why they did not bother even to start cremations at the mass graves of the 10,000 vixctims of the Treblinka II for Poles??? Lets forget about the shinanigans of the prosecutors and politicians and judges during the Nuremberg trial or even the Tardive Dyskinesia of Eichmann. While I mention that I do not put much weight into that. So what that Eichmann was fed with Thorazine. So what that he was spilling delusions about geysers of blood. The important subject is : how many Jewish skeletons or cremation pyres or cremation pits were discovered by archeologists at Lwow (Lemhberg). And indeed, the search was done in that city about 20 years ago especially in Lysynechi forest. But as usuall when the Jewish deaths are involved the archeology is classified as secret. Sincerely Polina Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >It is irrelevant if evidentiary material submitted to the Tribunal was > >admitted into > >court records as evidence. > > Not at all. It is relevant as it shows that material which was not > admitted as evidence did not meet the evidenciary standards set by the > tribunal - something which would have meant nothing if the tribunal > was a "show trial," as you have claimed. Had that been true, all of > the evidence submitted by the prosecution would have been admitted. > Get used to it. > > >The fact that such phoney material was ATTEMPTED , as you admit, to > >be presented > >casts indelible shadow on the rest of materials and entire Trial. > > Actually, it casts credibility upon the tribunal and its standards, > although you - for reasons known only to yourself and other deniers - > cannot see this. It clearly shows that standards existed and were > adhered to. Sorry about that, but your own contentions are nonsense > when considered beneath the light of the very evidence you submit in > your attempt to discredit the tribunal. > > >Prosecutors and Judges being the Victors of the WW II had > >[theoretically] access to > >plethora and aboundance real incriminating evidece. They had multitudes > >of personel > >to reject obviously confabulatory stories and obligation to submit bona > >fide data. > > >The fact that they, the almighty, attempted to submit fabrications for > >ever deprecated > >the credibility of the ENTIRE proceedings. Once a liar always a liar. > > Sorry about that, but, once again, you have only managed to defeat > your own "case" and show the validity of the evidenciary process. > Thank you so much for doing that! > > >Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed in > >fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic > >delusions of liberated > >and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their > >phoney stories. > > _Judges_ decide whether or not evidence is worthy of submission, not > attornies for defence or prosecution. By your rather strange > standards, we would have to dismiss just about every civil and > criminal trial ever held.... duh... > > >Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even > >a SCINTILLA > >of a questionable evidence. > > What colour is the sky where you live? Where did you get your legal > training? A Wheaties box? > > >Nuremberg was not a mafia trial where it is exceedingly difficult to get > >accurate > >evidence. All Nazi archives were opened to the victors. They should not need > >questionable and emotional eyewitnesses. They should not need faked > >soviet evidence. > >It should be rejected in the prosecutors chambers and not by the judges! > > What a strange concept of trial law you have, "Irene Polinhis > Miron Nasaduke!" > > >Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and Kransondar > >trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and > >Leningrad trial of > >January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to > >death for the > >Katyn massacre! > > If that had been true, the evidence would have been admitted into > evidence, as it always is during show trials. Again, thank you for > defeating your own case! > > Isn't it reassuring to note that while a Soviet show trial did indeed > convict Germans for the Katyn killings, the Nuremberg Tribunal did not > - in fact, as you very well know, at _Nuremberg_ it was conclusively > shown that Soviet charges were utter crap. How do you explain that, > "Irene Polinhis Miron Nasaduke?" > > >The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged > >secretly while the > >victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged publicly. > > Don't be so modest, old bean... the difference is that the Germans > were absolved of complicity in the Katyn killings during the Nuremberg > tribunal, an indisputable _fact_ which throws your entire thesis right > into the giwer. > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:29 EDT 1999 Article: 192098 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:43:37 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <38153179.18559C5D@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <01bf1f33$417d7f40$e19910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689453 soc.culture.polish:192098 soc.culture.german:142722 soc.culture.russian:159762 Yale below engages in total disinformation. I am not sure if this is premeditated or due to his superficial knowledge of the matter. Probably both. During the WW II there was a total cover up of the Katyn massacre in the media of the United States of America. Please do not trust me. Please check the New York Times Index and find one mention of Katyn during mid 1940s. You will find none. America and GB were engaged in cover up of Soviet crimes "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Peter Haefner wrote in article > ... > > On 23 Oct 1999 11:44:30 -0400, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > >> The most notorious examples of those false > > >> documents are the witness testimonies, the > > >> forensic report and other evidence produced at > > >> the trial of ten German officers accused of > > >> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > >> Katyn Forest. > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of > the > > >Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > >fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > The Soviets were deliberatly producing false evidence to pin the > > massacre to the Germans. > > That is correct. The evidence they produced, however, was neither > documentary evidence or eyewitness testimony. They relied on several > reports from pathologists and some hearsay testimony. > > It is now well-known that it was the Soviets as was suspected almost from > the moment that the massacre was discovered. There was a report rendered > to the US Department of State before the end of the war which stated that > the massacre was the work of the Soviets. > > There was one fact that put the issue in doubt for many years and, > ironically it was the forencsic study produced by the nazis. It found that > the victims had been murdered with ammunition manufactured in Germany. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:30 EDT 1999 Article: 192099 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:55:17 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 124 Message-ID: <38153435.B550E8D2@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> <01bf1f36$0384e7c0$e19910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689460 soc.culture.polish:192099 soc.culture.german:142723 soc.culture.russian:159763 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: snip But the Tribunal did not attempt to submit fabrications and, as you now > admit, did not accept them. > The only one being a liar now is you. I object to your assesment. Incidentally, the Polish government introduced materials about 2,000,000 Jews steamed to death at the baths at Treblinka. Was this admitted as evidence and what which death count the Tribunal established as true, could you tell me. Incidentally, what is your decision on selling me a copy of the video of Eichmann trial or giving me address where you bought it. How about the list of Allentown libraries having sets of Nuremberg transcritps??? There are some revisionist who damage the cause and some holocaustians who damage the Holocaust and you are one of them. I think Mc Vay and Keren do better job on fighting revisionists. I think you should help them and not produce your writings. Help them to put more documentation on the Internet. And there are many which prevent us from sleeping at night. Listen to prof Hilberg who says that tons of Nazi documents on acid paper never red desintegrate at the storage in Sutherland, MD. Polina > > > > Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed > in > > fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic delusions > of liberated > > and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their > phoney stories. > > And they put together one hell of a case. It depended almost entirely on > the documents of the accused and consisted of overwhelming proof which you > cannot refute except by lying about it. > > As you have several times. > > > Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even > a SCINTILLA > > of a questionable evidence. > > False. It is the record of a trial. It is the duty of a person compiling > a trial record to include EVERYTHING from the trial. Furthermore, as you > now admit, the specific documents you are complaining about were NOT > evidence. > > > Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and > Kransondar > > trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and > Leningrad trial of > > January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to death > for the > > Katyn massacre! > > You are a liar. There is no other word for it. > > > The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged > secretly while the > > victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged > publicly. > > No. The overwhelming opinion of those legal scholars who have studied the > trial is that the defendants received a fair trial. Even those who > disagree with the IMT trial and the attorneys for the defense have stated > that. If you really believe the garbage you present, you would have had no > problem in demonstrating how the defendants were denied a fair trial. > > Indeed the actions of Justice Musmanno (in the EG trial) was so highly > regarded by the defense counsel that they presented him a token of their > appreciation and cited his rulings in mundane criminal cases in German > courts. > > Not only have you failed to supply a single right of a fair trial that the > defendants were denied but you have made a fool of yourself when you tried. > > Start with the basics of a fair trial: > > Were the defendants allowed counsel of their choice? > > Were the defendants allowed to cross-examine prosecution witnesses and > challenge prosecution evidence? > > Did the rulings of the Tribunal conform to legal standards of the time? > > Were the Defendants allowed to present evidence of their own? > > Were the Defendants allowed to testify in their own defense? > > Were the defendants, in this case, allowed to make unsworn statements to > theTribunal that were not subject to cross-examination? > > Did the judgment of the Tribunal conform to the evidence that was before > them? > > Each of these questions can be unequivocally answered in the affirmative. > > As you have stated elsewhere, you do not even know what happened at the > trial or what the evidence is. You ahve even demonstrated that you do not > even know what evidence is. > > In short, you are an apologist for the nazis, stamping your foot and > demanding that others accept your garbled ideas as trueand correct. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:30 EDT 1999 Article: 192104 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german.,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa Subject: Hitler's jig dehoaxed, confirmed Churchill's cheering Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:23:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 141 Message-ID: <38153AE3.D078FAFB@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8" Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192104 alt.revisionism:689473 soc.culture.british:407733 soc.culture.usa:423586 --------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good evening, I just received an interesting letter from the Polish Historical Society. I was told, but not by Mr. Kuras, (letters author) that the Hitler's jig was created from a several splices of Adolph's one gesture of stomping foot and hiting his gloves against his tigh with justified satisfaction. This splicing was apparently made by British propagandists. The jig is immaterial in itself. The more important question is that if the Birts faked this sequence how many other sequences of other newsreels and documents they faked. Similarly, if it was proven that Rev Popieluszko the Solidarity priest was killed by Polish secret police agents, the question is how many other opponents they killed in more skilful and circumspect manner. If it was proven that Mr Clinton was cavorting with Monica L. how many other women he acosted. This can go on and on, but lets go back to the interestig letter from which we can see that the alcoholism of Mr Churchill led him to sadism. I am sure that after posting this letter at the soc.culture.polish I will be now no longer called Ukrainian but a Volksdeutscher and Mr Kuras will be called a Neo-Nazi. I wonder what they will call me when I will post text defending Japaneese civilians incinerated by American bombers. October 25, 1999 Letters Editor The Washington Post Washington, DC Dear Sirs, An eyewitness account from Angus Mac Lean Thuermer (Letters to the Editor - October 23) reveals that Adolph Hitler never actually "danced a jig" for any thing else, at the June 1940 armistice ceremony with the French at Compeigne. Interestingly, another eyewitness account - of an incident four years later - reveals a most demonstrative Winston Churchill. As background, it should be noted that Churchill had initiated the air war with Germany on May 11, 1940, when 18 Whitley bombers attacked railway installations in western Germany. And, when Churchill's War Cabinet approved the Lindenmann Plan in March 1942, it became official British Policy to "terrorize" (kill), by bombing, as many German civilians as possible. (This was readily acknowledged in the official publication "The Strategic Air Offensive Against Germany" [H. M. Stationary Office, London, October 1961].) And, indeed, with increasingly purposeful US assistance, well over a million German civilians were successfully slaughtered. We now quote (via Hennig p. 124), Emmanuel d'Astier de la Vignerie, former French minister of the interior, describing his visit to Churchill during the war, "Smoking his cigar, Churchill led me into a large room where a series of stereoscopes were set up next to each other like milestones. Each one was dedicated to a destroyed city. Churchill dragged me from one to the next. … so that I could watch the horrors of Cologne, Dusseldorf or Hamburg passed before my eyes. He himself was as excited as at a football game. He cheered, praised the destruction and lauded the hits." Jan Kuras --------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good evening,

I just received an interesting letter from the Polish Historical Society.

I  was told, but not by Mr. Kuras, (letters author) that the Hitler's jig was created from a several splices of Adolph's one gesture of stomping foot and hiting his gloves against his tigh with justified satisfaction.  This splicing was apparently made by British propagandists.

The jig is immaterial in itself.  The more important question is that if the Birts faked this sequence how many other sequences of other newsreels and documents they faked.

Similarly, if it was proven that Rev Popieluszko the Solidarity priest was killed by Polish secret police agents, the question is how many other opponents they killed in more skilful and circumspect manner.

If it was proven that Mr Clinton was cavorting with Monica L. how many other women he acosted.  This can go on and on,  but lets go back to the interestig letter from which we can see that the alcoholism of Mr Churchill led him to sadism.

I am sure that after posting this letter at the soc.culture.polish I will be now no longer called Ukrainian but a Volksdeutscher and Mr Kuras will be called a Neo-Nazi.

I wonder what they will call me when I will post text defending Japaneese civilians incinerated by American bombers.

October 25, 1999
Letters Editor
The Washington Post
Washington, DC

Dear Sirs,

An eyewitness account from Angus Mac Lean Thuermer  (Letters to the Editor - October 23) reveals that Adolph Hitler never actually  "danced a jig" for any thing else, at the June 1940 armistice ceremony with the French at Compeigne.  Interestingly,  another eyewitness account - of an incident four years later - reveals a most demonstrative Winston Churchill.

As background, it should be noted that Churchill had initiated the air war with Germany on May 11, 1940, when 18 Whitley bombers attacked railway installations in western Germany.  And, when Churchill's  War Cabinet approved the Lindenmann Plan in March 1942, it became official British Policy  to "terrorize" (kill), by bombing, as many German civilians as possible.  (This was readily acknowledged in the official publication "The Strategic Air Offensive Against Germany" [H. M. Stationary Office, London, October  1961].)

And, indeed, with increasingly  purposeful  US assistance, well over a million German civilians were successfully slaughtered.

We now quote (via  Hennig  p. 124),  Emmanuel d'Astier de la Vignerie, former French minister of the interior, describing his visit to Churchill during the war,  "Smoking his cigar, Churchill led me into a large room where a series of stereoscopes were set up next to each other like milestones.  Each one was dedicated to a destroyed city.  Churchill dragged me from one to the next.  …  so that I could watch the horrors of Cologne, Dusseldorf  or Hamburg  passed before my eyes.  He himself was as excited as at a football game.  He cheered, praised the destruction and lauded the hits."

Jan Kuras
 
 
  --------------B26CE309D948940C8B2842C8-- From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:30 EDT 1999 Article: 192111 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!btnet-peer!btnet!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: A Question for the "Polish History Society" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:06:25 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <381544E1.74A010A1@catskill.net> References: <01bf1ea1$75f93ee0$2a9910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689482 soc.culture.polish:192111 Two Amici briefs were filed in the Sixth Circuit US Court of Appeals 1) some International Society of Jewish lawyers 2) by Polish Historical Society Needless to say these were opposing briefs. I will send you the copy of that brief 40 + page brief if you send me copy of the video of Eichmann trial and list the "ten public libraries in [your ]Allentown PA area which have IMT proceedings. Polina Ps I no longer have the Jewish brief just their application for leave. You can also contact PHS at POB 8024 Stamford, CT 06905. They might have more complete record. The PHS amicus circulated widely among revisionists and holocasutians and was discussed in the mainstream newspapers at the time of its submission. Of course, The Polish Historical Society was called as a Nazi-group in these papers. "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > In several threads on sci.skeptic and alt.revisionism it has been claimed > that the "Polish History Society" filed an Amicus brief in the John > Demjanjuk case. > > The filing of such a brief requires an Order of Court and is always noted > in the docket. > > A check of the relevant dockets shows that no application to file such a > brief was ever filed in any case, that no Order was ever issued permitting > the filing of such a brief, and that no such bried was ever filed. > Moreover, all of the cases involving Demjanjuk were published and none > indicated, as is standard practice, that such a brief was filed. > > Can you provide a citation for an Amicus brief filed by the "Polish > Hisotry Society" or are the people who claim that such a brief exists, > mistaked or dishonest. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:31 EDT 1999 Article: 192178 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-feed.riddles.org.uk!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re: Why Jewish diaspora is active and Polish slumbers Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:41:06 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 289 Message-ID: <38162E01.93F26AEA@catskill.net> References: <19991026061722.15652.qmail@www0x.netaddress.usa.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689697 soc.culture.polish:192178 soc.culture.ukrainian:59756 Guten Abend Dear Ted, Occasionally you write logical and comprehensible postings and it is worthwhile to respond to them. See, the end of the world is not near because some do not respond to your posts because when warranted we do. Your contra-argument about Israel is excellent. Still I think my theory is correct. Diasporas start to be active when their homelands are in trouble. Do you remember how active we were during the Solidarity era?? Or even during the more recent flood of the century??? Israel is in perpetual danger and it is a perpatually welfare state or a beggar which can not exist and will instantly collapse if the billions of $$$ and DM do not arrive on time. Every Jew knows it. Are you old enough to remember when the Arabs were totally feeble, backward and illiterate that is during late 1940s and 1950's and Israel was not afraid of them since soviets did not support them, Jewish diaspora understood this situation and leisurly forgot about the Holocaust. With the conclusions of the Nuremberg Trials for years no one bothered to mention the Holocaust or Auschwitz. You might say that the term of the Holocaust was invented during the Eichmann trial and this is a good argument but the 4,000,000 dead at Auschwitz were proven in this Court and I challenge you to find the term Auschwitz in the New York Times Index for years 1946-1961. But When the Soviets linked with Nasser and the security of the Israel became questionable Jewish diaspora started to get active and went into overdrive after the Six Days War. I am sure that while today most of us eats pierogi, dances Polkas and thinks how to cheat the IRS (an all-American pass time) or each other, when the Russia gets stronger and the united Germans start to reproduce and the sixt partition of Poland will loom (because we did not link with Ukrainians) then our Diaspora will get active again Greetings to all of you and God bless you, Poolina PS Incidentally dziendobry in Ukrainian is dobryjden', zdrastwujte is in Russian. Ted Pioro wrote: > Dear "Polin", zdrawstwujte: > Following your way of thinking "independence creates a passivity" it should be > said that Israelis fit in, but the truth is opposite for they are more active > now than they were before gaining their independence. How can you explain this > phenomenon and how you see the possibility of activating Ukrainian and Polish > Diasporas? > Sincerely - Ted Pioro with BUFFS as below and with doswidanja dlja tebja. > > ---- > polin wrote: > > Dobryj den' > > To tease you especially my Polish folk, to get attention and to push you > into action, I greeted you in Ukrianian. > > For a holocaust revisionist historian an answer to the question posed below > is simple. > > It will beome even more simple if I include in the list of active diasporas > Ukrainians and Irishmen and Poles before the end of the WWI (First WW). > > Now I am sure you see, that diasporas are active only while their country > lacks INDEPENDENCE. > > After the WWII Poland have had quasi and then full independence. There for > all immigrants got involved in gettin more $$$ and more $$$ and do not dare > to opose Jewish defamation because they are afraid of loosing $$$ > > I am too busy to list prominents of the Irish, Ukrianian and Polish WW I > diasporas. > > You readers do it and continue > > Why only Holocaust revisionist can come with the above answer : because we > revisionist are not blinded by any myths and on the contrary we dehoax them > > Polina > > wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > > Before You criticize anybody, consider what did YOU personally (and > > Polish emigration generally) did for Poland. IMHO Polish emigration > > (and emigrations of other postcommunist countries except Baltic > > countries) is only able to different kind of "preaching" but not to do > > anything with any sense... > > Only in Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia their disaporas were really > > involved in changes and quite helpful. They even bacame ministers and > > event presidents. > > Why other disaporas are so bad? > > cheers > > > > Klaudiusz > > http://www.geocities.com/kwesolek/c-europe.html > > > > ted pioro wrote: > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe/?start=751 > > > Sz. Panie K. Wesolek (sorry - in Polish): > > > No i kto jest winny, ze projekt o dekomunizacji nie przeszedl? Pan, > > Panie > > > Wesolek, bowiem za malo wlozyl wysilku dla wyjasnienia ludziom obludy > > > komunizmu za ktora to oblude przelewali krew, o czym nizej w t.zw. > > BUFFS: > > > > > > > > > Month of September was a proper time to remind everybody how it came > > to the > > > WWII out of which emerged State of Israel and how to avoid similar > > conflicts > > > in the Third Millenium. Read this: > > > > > > INTERESTING URL RECOMMENDED BY HISTORY BUFF(S) > > > From: "Brian Wiesc" bwiesc@hotmail.com > > > > > > The URL http://www.hollyland.com > > > brings forth an astonishing message that Adolf Hitler was the Founder > > of > > > Israel. Some historians have checked authencity of such claim and, > > encouraged > > > by a German Court Ruling of 1995 which permits distribution of the > > book ADOLF > > > HITLER - BEGRUENDER ISRAELS, translated it into English (in Poland > > into > > > Polish) and published under the title ADOLF HITLER - FOUNDER OF > > ISRAEL, and > > > subtitle ISRAEL IN WAR - WITH JEWS. Distribution of said book in the > > U.S. is > > > carried in the NEW CENTURY PRESS and the MODJESKIS' SOCIETY, the > > Publisher. > > > Author of said book, Hennecke Kardel, 20 years ago suggested that the > > greatest > > > conflict in the history of HUMANKIND was the Israeli-Jewish > > interference into > > > affairs of European nations. He pointed out that the WWII was a > > direct result > > > of this interference. Whether it was possible, whether it was a fact > > or > > > imagination of the Author only, whether it will help to avoid military > > > conflicts in the future, you should read the book. YOU BE THE JUDGE! > > The most > > > recently waged war among Jews about their "Chooseness" confirms the > > book's > > > subtitle. In the book the Publisher states that in 1913 in Vienna J. > > Stalin > > > (like in 1924 A.Hitler) wrote his own "MEIN KAMPF", but by V. Lenin > > it was > > > ignored because the goal was to materialize K. Marx's idea of > > destruction of > > > capitalism and GOD, causing 65 million humans to perish before the > > end of WWII > > > in the USSR alone. And because very renown Rabbis, Humanists > > (Atheists), and > > > other Jewish thinkers declare that GOD not exist at all, and J.W. > > Rice by his > > > book of 1997 GOD ON TRIAL agreed with, it seems that the Publisher's > > new > > > initiative to put the HISTORY OF MANKIND and GOD YAHVE on a TRIAL is > > correct > > > and justified. The recommended book is a first step forward. The > > Publisher > > > discerns the HUMANKIND from the MANKIND, because the TORAH (BIBLE) > > authorizes > > > this. Therefore it is also worthy of attention the REVELATION in the > > given > > > URL. > > > > > > Any comments or additions to this, please e-mail: mosc@england.com > > > Last updated on 03/15/99 08:26 PM > > > > > > --- > > > And now what did say about those historical events Rabbi Stephen C. > > Lerner and > > > Mark Jay Mirsky on page 21 in their book MY SEARCH FOR THE MESSIAH, > > New York, > > > 1977 is this: > > > "Perhaps the founding of the state of Israel, enthusiasm for western > > science, > > > and the EXPERIMENT WITH THAT UNIVERSALIST JEWISH HERESY, MARXISM, has > > absorbed > > > the energies of our most creative spirits....and Judaism will begin > > to step > > > into its vital and dangerous responsibilities among the nations." > > > --- > > > And now a word of competitor: > > > > > > "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized > > nation had > > > full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more > > efficient, > > > and the world will follow our lead into the future!" > > > > > > Adolph Hitler, 1935. > > > > > > --- > > > As if the above is not enough, read this: > > > > > > "The Communist soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows, that > > just as in > > > the Russian revolution the triumph of Communism was the triumph of > > Judaism, so > > > also in the triumph of Fascism will triumph Judaism." (A Program for > > the Jews > > > and Answer to All Anti-Semites, pages 143-144 by Rabbi Harry Waton, > > New York, > > > 1939). And on pages 36 and 37 he consequently wrote: > > > "The communists are Marxists, bolshevists, internationalists, Jews, > > enemies of > > > the Aryans and their culture. Soviet Russia is ruled by Jews and > > barbarians > > > that are incapable of culture.This, then, is the first step in the > > PROGRAM: > > > the Jews must reconcile themselves with Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy > > and > > > fascism generally." > > > > > > In this way Rabbi H. Waton has confirmed Hennecke Kardel's claim that > > the > > > MEGA-HOLOCAUST had been caused by GENOCIDAL programming of Elders of > > Zion > > > (1903) accordingly with the Will of Jahve (read the Holy Bible/Torah). > > > --- > > > One more source of knowledge should also not bother you: > > > > > > The U.S. Senator Daniel P. Moynihan in the Chapter "The Encounter with > > > Communism" of his book SECRECY, New York, 1998, has revealed how > > before 1917 > > > the communist Jews infiltrated U.S. Government and in 1933 this > > climaxed in > > > recognition of the murderous Soviet Union as a > > > partner of the U.S. > > > ---- > > > "Indeed, we [Jews] were at the leading edge of communist > > totalitarianism, one > > > of the most murderous movements of the 20th century." -- Barbara > > Amiel, > > > Maclean's Magazine, September 27, 1999 > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > For more revelations look into the > > !!!! > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > "Klaudiusz Wesolek" wrote: > > > The text of the speach of Mariusz Kaminski in the debate on > > decommunization > > > in Polish Parliament (sorry - in Polish) > > > http://www.ligarepublikanska.pl/dekomunizacja/kaminski1.htm > > > > > > here , you may see how did they vote: > > > http://www.ligarepublikanska.pl/dekomunizacja/glosowanie.htm > > > > > > unfortunately the draft law on decommunization in Poland was > > rejected..... > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Klaudiusz > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Click on Instant Credit Card Approval at > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1274 > > > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1272 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:31 EDT 1999 Article: 192179 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian Subject: Re:a rambling post by Polina Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:57:18 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 284 Message-ID: <381631CD.4AF36AD6@catskill.net> References: <19991026061722.15652.qmail@www0x.netaddress.usa.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192179 soc.culture.ukrainian:59757 Dear Ted, Activation of Ukrainian diaspora is unnecessary. They are active. Some of them left America and moved to Kyjv and I think Jaroslava Stecko leading banderite is elected member of the Ukrainian Duma (Sejm). They are active because they are afraid that at any moment Russia will invade and anex Ukraine. I am not wszechwiedzaca (omni-knowing) and do not know what to do with Polish Diaspora. I even do not know what to do to interest in the Polish matters my own brother who will invest in fishing, pedigree dogs and whose son Bartlomiej who grew in Poland and America and moved back to Poland named his first son Patrick. And Mr. Odrzanski, he did not name him Bohdan or Stepan or Volodymyr. But Pope's parents in Wadowice named Karol's sister Olga. Olga died when she was one year old, when at the time her oldest brother Aleksander, spoke only German in Linz in school and Ukrainian at home. Would you call Karol Wojtylas Mother and Father an asshole, Mr. Odrzanski ??? Because they named their first daughter after Emilia's sister who was as much Ukrainian as Emilia who spoke to Lolek (Karol) at home Ukrainian and Polish he picke up in school??? I ramble in this posting, but on purpose. Also, while I do not rambling posts I learned that you will read and respond to this one and despite you swearing that you expunged me with a filter. Thus I surmise that even my rambling posts must be interesting and thoughts provoking Polina Ted Pioro wrote: > Dear "Polin", zdrawstwujte: > Following your way of thinking "independence creates a passivity" it should be > said that Israelis fit in, but the truth is opposite for they are more active > now than they were before gaining their independence. How can you explain this > phenomenon and how you see the possibility of activating Ukrainian and Polish > Diasporas? > Sincerely - Ted Pioro with BUFFS as below and with doswidanja dlja tebja. > > ---- > polin wrote: > > Dobryj den' > > To tease you especially my Polish folk, to get attention and to push you > into action, I greeted you in Ukrianian. > > For a holocaust revisionist historian an answer to the question posed below > is simple. > > It will beome even more simple if I include in the list of active diasporas > Ukrainians and Irishmen and Poles before the end of the WWI (First WW). > > Now I am sure you see, that diasporas are active only while their country > lacks INDEPENDENCE. > > After the WWII Poland have had quasi and then full independence. There for > all immigrants got involved in gettin more $$$ and more $$$ and do not dare > to opose Jewish defamation because they are afraid of loosing $$$ > > I am too busy to list prominents of the Irish, Ukrianian and Polish WW I > diasporas. > > You readers do it and continue > > Why only Holocaust revisionist can come with the above answer : because we > revisionist are not blinded by any myths and on the contrary we dehoax them > > Polina > > wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > > Before You criticize anybody, consider what did YOU personally (and > > Polish emigration generally) did for Poland. IMHO Polish emigration > > (and emigrations of other postcommunist countries except Baltic > > countries) is only able to different kind of "preaching" but not to do > > anything with any sense... > > Only in Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia their disaporas were really > > involved in changes and quite helpful. They even bacame ministers and > > event presidents. > > Why other disaporas are so bad? > > cheers > > > > Klaudiusz > > http://www.geocities.com/kwesolek/c-europe.html > > > > ted pioro wrote: > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe/?start=751 > > > Sz. Panie K. Wesolek (sorry - in Polish): > > > No i kto jest winny, ze projekt o dekomunizacji nie przeszedl? Pan, > > Panie > > > Wesolek, bowiem za malo wlozyl wysilku dla wyjasnienia ludziom obludy > > > komunizmu za ktora to oblude przelewali krew, o czym nizej w t.zw. > > BUFFS: > > > > > > > > > Month of September was a proper time to remind everybody how it came > > to the > > > WWII out of which emerged State of Israel and how to avoid similar > > conflicts > > > in the Third Millenium. Read this: > > > > > > INTERESTING URL RECOMMENDED BY HISTORY BUFF(S) > > > From: "Brian Wiesc" bwiesc@hotmail.com > > > > > > The URL http://www.hollyland.com > > > brings forth an astonishing message that Adolf Hitler was the Founder > > of > > > Israel. Some historians have checked authencity of such claim and, > > encouraged > > > by a German Court Ruling of 1995 which permits distribution of the > > book ADOLF > > > HITLER - BEGRUENDER ISRAELS, translated it into English (in Poland > > into > > > Polish) and published under the title ADOLF HITLER - FOUNDER OF > > ISRAEL, and > > > subtitle ISRAEL IN WAR - WITH JEWS. Distribution of said book in the > > U.S. is > > > carried in the NEW CENTURY PRESS and the MODJESKIS' SOCIETY, the > > Publisher. > > > Author of said book, Hennecke Kardel, 20 years ago suggested that the > > greatest > > > conflict in the history of HUMANKIND was the Israeli-Jewish > > interference into > > > affairs of European nations. He pointed out that the WWII was a > > direct result > > > of this interference. Whether it was possible, whether it was a fact > > or > > > imagination of the Author only, whether it will help to avoid military > > > conflicts in the future, you should read the book. YOU BE THE JUDGE! > > The most > > > recently waged war among Jews about their "Chooseness" confirms the > > book's > > > subtitle. In the book the Publisher states that in 1913 in Vienna J. > > Stalin > > > (like in 1924 A.Hitler) wrote his own "MEIN KAMPF", but by V. Lenin > > it was > > > ignored because the goal was to materialize K. Marx's idea of > > destruction of > > > capitalism and GOD, causing 65 million humans to perish before the > > end of WWII > > > in the USSR alone. And because very renown Rabbis, Humanists > > (Atheists), and > > > other Jewish thinkers declare that GOD not exist at all, and J.W. > > Rice by his > > > book of 1997 GOD ON TRIAL agreed with, it seems that the Publisher's > > new > > > initiative to put the HISTORY OF MANKIND and GOD YAHVE on a TRIAL is > > correct > > > and justified. The recommended book is a first step forward. The > > Publisher > > > discerns the HUMANKIND from the MANKIND, because the TORAH (BIBLE) > > authorizes > > > this. Therefore it is also worthy of attention the REVELATION in the > > given > > > URL. > > > > > > Any comments or additions to this, please e-mail: mosc@england.com > > > Last updated on 03/15/99 08:26 PM > > > > > > --- > > > And now what did say about those historical events Rabbi Stephen C. > > Lerner and > > > Mark Jay Mirsky on page 21 in their book MY SEARCH FOR THE MESSIAH, > > New York, > > > 1977 is this: > > > "Perhaps the founding of the state of Israel, enthusiasm for western > > science, > > > and the EXPERIMENT WITH THAT UNIVERSALIST JEWISH HERESY, MARXISM, has > > absorbed > > > the energies of our most creative spirits....and Judaism will begin > > to step > > > into its vital and dangerous responsibilities among the nations." > > > --- > > > And now a word of competitor: > > > > > > "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized > > nation had > > > full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more > > efficient, > > > and the world will follow our lead into the future!" > > > > > > Adolph Hitler, 1935. > > > > > > --- > > > As if the above is not enough, read this: > > > > > > "The Communist soul is the soul of Judaism. Hence it follows, that > > just as in > > > the Russian revolution the triumph of Communism was the triumph of > > Judaism, so > > > also in the triumph of Fascism will triumph Judaism." (A Program for > > the Jews > > > and Answer to All Anti-Semites, pages 143-144 by Rabbi Harry Waton, > > New York, > > > 1939). And on pages 36 and 37 he consequently wrote: > > > "The communists are Marxists, bolshevists, internationalists, Jews, > > enemies of > > > the Aryans and their culture. Soviet Russia is ruled by Jews and > > barbarians > > > that are incapable of culture.This, then, is the first step in the > > PROGRAM: > > > the Jews must reconcile themselves with Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy > > and > > > fascism generally." > > > > > > In this way Rabbi H. Waton has confirmed Hennecke Kardel's claim that > > the > > > MEGA-HOLOCAUST had been caused by GENOCIDAL programming of Elders of > > Zion > > > (1903) accordingly with the Will of Jahve (read the Holy Bible/Torah). > > > --- > > > One more source of knowledge should also not bother you: > > > > > > The U.S. Senator Daniel P. Moynihan in the Chapter "The Encounter with > > > Communism" of his book SECRECY, New York, 1998, has revealed how > > before 1917 > > > the communist Jews infiltrated U.S. Government and in 1933 this > > climaxed in > > > recognition of the murderous Soviet Union as a > > > partner of the U.S. > > > ---- > > > "Indeed, we [Jews] were at the leading edge of communist > > totalitarianism, one > > > of the most murderous movements of the 20th century." -- Barbara > > Amiel, > > > Maclean's Magazine, September 27, 1999 > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > For more revelations look into the > > !!!! > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > "Klaudiusz Wesolek" wrote: > > > The text of the speach of Mariusz Kaminski in the debate on > > decommunization > > > in Polish Parliament (sorry - in Polish) > > > http://www.ligarepublikanska.pl/dekomunizacja/kaminski1.htm > > > > > > here , you may see how did they vote: > > > http://www.ligarepublikanska.pl/dekomunizacja/glosowanie.htm > > > > > > unfortunately the draft law on decommunization in Poland was > > rejected..... > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Klaudiusz > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Click on Instant Credit Card Approval at > > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1274 > > > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1272 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Imagine a credit card with a 0% Intro APR and Instant Approval… > It seems impossible, but it’s not. Visit GetSmart.com’s Credit Card > Finder and click on instant approval cards right now at > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1272 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:31 EDT 1999 Article: 192186 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: compulsive-obsessive Polina ??Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:30:33 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 99 Message-ID: <38163999.9E972BDB@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689720 soc.culture.polish:192186 soc.culture.german:142795 soc.culture.russian:159863 John Talmudicaly splits hair and veers of the principal of the matter. The fact that Justice Jacson lowered himself to using dirty tricks on Spear with vaporisation while he had or should have abandance of uncontrovertible evidence is a great embarassment to this entire [Show] Trial. John also snipped out my questions how Jackson arrived at such "indirect" in the first place e.g. prevarication of Jackson's or survisor's Who cares about Nurember?? I do not. The Sulzberger's New York Times did not even care about Auschwitz for years. But about that subject in the next posting. Polina, PS Some readers asked me in e-mail how come that I do not react to invectives slurs personals and gutter language of my holocaustian opponents. My response is the following. 1) I know that I will never convince about anything Mr Morris Drs Keren and Gorski a.k.a ORAC or Yale or Philps or even K. Mc Vay. HOwever, 2) I use them as convenient sounding board and use their frequently irrational and uncivil responses as a forum 3) I am not afraid that by stating that I will lose them. They are primarlily compulsive-obsessive arguers and only secondarily Holocasutians. No reason, NOTHING will stop compulsive-obsessive individual. There are no effective therapies known for this condition or a trait. 4) HOw do I know that they are compulsive obsessive? Because they do not heed the Holocaustianity party line which forbids debate with Revisionist and because of their persistance and lack of rationality and reason in their responses. 5) How do I know that I am not compulsive-obsessive [CO] myself? a) CO restrict themself to one subject be it Holocaustianity or brushing theeth before and after every meal or even drink, or washing their hands 66 times a day before and after opening the refrigerator. MOreover CO could not stop their rituals or activity. You will notice that I post on various subjects and with temporary hiatuses (hiati ?? in Latin?) when I am busy with every day matters. For me posting on the net is an educational entertainment. b) virtually all CO are pedantic even in spelling and I am to lazy to bother to do the spell check since I learned that you will read me anyway atrocious errors in spelling and syntax as well as occasional inaccuracies in the historical details. Greetings to all from Polina even to my oponents John Morris wrote: > In <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> in alt.revisionism, on 25 Oct 1999 19:06:21 > GMT, kmcvay@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote: > > >In article <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net>, > >polin wrote: > > >>Astonishing! > > >The only "astonishing" item here is your apparently deliberate attempt > >to suggest that unproven information from the Indictment had any > >bearing upon the Judgment. > > I must demur. Using the keywords "Auschwitz," "atomic," and > "experiment," I am unable to find any reference in the Nuremberg > indictments to an experiment to vaporize Jews at Auschwitz with atomic > weapons. > > It is plain that Jackson's question--the sole reference in the entire > proceedings--was merely an indirection to induce Speer to testify > about rumours which the Nazis employed to prolong the war. > > You are right that there is no question whether Jackson attempted to > prove that such an experiment took place. He did not. > > This thread has become a mere demonstration of Mr. Dragan's > credulousness when dealing with information from Revisionist web > pages. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:31 EDT 1999 Article: 192187 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:50:21 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 257 Message-ID: <38163E3C.9E5AC731@catskill.net> References: <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689725 soc.culture.polish:192187 soc.culture.german:142805 soc.culture.russian:159869 Good evening, Finally, an excellent rebuttal and posting (below) from Mr Candide if I do not mix up Candide and Odrzanski. Instead sobriquetic oneliners true and excellent rebuttal. Bravo. Candide states he is not aware that Polish Gov in Exile was presenting fake evidence on their own. Dr. Sawicki was the Polish presenter of the Treblinka industrial murder by steaming 2,000,000 Jews to death. Ask Polish Historical Society for the complete text. They have about 100,000 pages of archival material (about one cubic meter) on Treblinka It was Dr. Dragan from STamford and T. Lazarski from the Hoover Institue in California who jointly discovered the galleys of the article about Treblinka steam chambers from the July 1943 issue of the XXth Century the leading political and intellectual magazine of the British Empire. >From this research it became evident that Prof Sir Charles Dodd the pres. of the Royal Soc of Physicians and Surgeons and inventor of the synthetic stilbestrol was the first WW II Holocaust Revisionist and that the movement got born during "taking the tea" at the nearby restaurant La Escargote (Pod Slimakiem) still in existance by Dodd and the editor of the magazine. Strangely this is within the shouting distance of the domicile of David Irving according to the last May's NYT a respected historian with inappropriate perspective, no longer a Neo-Nazi or lunatic. Greetings from Polina and thanks for an excellent post. Candide wrote: > John Morris wrote: > > > > Candide wrote: > > > > > >What on earth is wrong with you people? Are > > >lies and insults your only argument in > > >discussion? > > > > >I gave you a clear link to: > > >http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > > > The first thing you should understand is that Carlos Porter is a very > > bad liar. > > > > >It is a document (translated for your > > >convenience by Carlos W. Porter) introduced > > >by the Soviets into evidence at the Nuremberg > > >trial. It opens with the following statement: > > > > Yes, it is a document, but it contains no supporting documentary > > evidence of the Soviet charge. > > > > >----------------------------- > > >DOCUMENT 054 USSR > > > > >Report by a Special Soviet Commission, 24 > > >January 1944, concerning the shooting of > > >Polish officer prisoners of war in the > > >forest of Katyn. The executions had been > > >carried out in autumn 1941 by the German > > >"Staff of the Construction Battalion > > >537". In spring 1943 the Germans, by > > >blackmailing witnesses into giving false > > >evidence and by other means, had tried to > > >make it appear that the Soviet NKWD was > > >responsible for the shooting of the 11,000 > > >victims. > > >----------------------------- > > > > >This "document" is an elaborate hoax > > >describing in minute detail (on some forty > > >pages of text) how, where and when the > > >Germans killed the Polish officers whose > > >mass graves were found at Katyn. > > > > >Read it and tell me: is this not a sufficient > > >example of false evidence given to the > > >Tribunal by the NKVD? > > > > Without a doubt, you have identified a single piece of false evidence > > presented by the Soviets. > > > > But that is not the same as claiming, "It is a well known fact that > > most (if not all) of the documents presented at Nuremberg trials were > > fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet political police, dominated almost > > entirely by jews." > > I hope it is obvious that this was an accidental > error on my part. What I intended to say was: > "... most (if not all) of the documents > presented by the Soviets at Nuremberg trials > were fabricated ..." > > > > > >Despite your statements to the contrary, the > > >Katyn massacre WAS very well part of of the > > >indictment at Nuremberg. Here is a quote > > >from D. Irving's 'Nuremberg, The Last > > >Battle': > > > > No one claimed that it wasn't part of the indictment. In fact, it was > > part of Count Three: War Crimes. > > > > What Yale states--and it is quite true--no German defendant was > > convicted of the Katyn massacre. Rather, the defence successfully > > rebutted the charge. > > Well, not "quite true". None of the German > defendants in Nuremberg was found guilty of > that particular crime, true, but on the base of > the same false evidence several German > defendants WERE convicted and publicly > hanged in Leningrad, during the Nuremberg > trial. > > Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some > freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg. > They were integral part of the prosecuting > team of the IMT. It was that international > prosecuting team who made the Katyn > massacre a part of the indictment, and it was > the same team who offered bogus Soviet > documents as evidence. By doing it, the > Western prosecutors not only compromised > their professional integrity; they commited a > criminal offence. > > > > > >"(...) Most outrageously, on General > > >Rudenkoâ*™s insistence at the very last meeting > > >of the prosecuting staffs the indictment was > > >amended to include the murder in the Katyn > > >forest of 11,000 Polish officers. > > > > Irving is right. For once Revisionists are right: it is outrageous > > that the Soviets tried to pass off their own war crimes as Nazi > > crimes. > > > > >Point 3, paragraph C of the indictment would > > >read: 'In September 1941 eleven thousand > > >Polish prisoners-of-war were killed in the > > >Katyn forest, near Smolensk.' " [end quote]. > > > > >So, not only did Soviets introduce false > > >evidence at Nuremberg but they also managed > > >to attribute their own war crimes to Germans. > > >And, as if murdering 15,000 (not 11,000) of > > >defenceless Polish prisoners was not enough, > > >they also staged a trial of some German > > >officers who were "directly responsible" for > > >Katyn massacre, and publicly hanged seven of > > >them in Leningrad. The film documenting this > > >execution was shown to the international > > >members of the Tribunal as part of the after > > >hours entertainment. > > > > > >The Document 054 USSR quoted above is by > > >no means the only example of the false > > >testimony fabricated by NKVD and introduced > > >as evidence at Nuremberg. There are other > > >"documents", testifying for example to > > >4,000,000 gassed at Auschwitz or describing > > > > Again, this is a Soviet report with no supporting documentation. > > Yes, another outrageous lie offered as > evidence. > > > In > > this particular case, the Soviets estimated the crematory capacity at > > Auschwitz and assumed that it ran flat out most of the time. This was > > a bad assumption as subsequent historical research has borne out. > > > > The Tribunal did not cite the Soviet report in its judgment, though. > > Instead thet cited the testimony of Rudolph Hoess. At Nuremberg, > > Hoess claimed that Eichmann had told him 2.5 million. But when tried > > in Poland, Hoess realized that the actual death toll was closer to 1.1 > > million which is, in fact, very close to the death toll cited by > > Western historians. > > > > >the execution steam chambers > > > > Sorry. That was part of the US presentation and was based upon Polish > > reports of observations made at a distance at Treblinka. If Polish > > winters are as cold as the winters where I live, automotive engine > > exhaust looks a lot like steam. > > Which would suggest Soviets were not alone > in presenting false evidence. Do you have any > reference to those mysterious "Polish reports" > confusing an automotive engine with a steam > chamber? > > > > or underground > > >electrocution chambers or pedal operated > > >killing machines, > > > > You've got me on how gas chambers could be mistaken for electrocution > > chambers, but I wonder if the other one isn't a mistake for the metal > > frame that held prisoners' heads in place while the "doctors" took > > racial specimen pictures. > > If you saw what pathetic structures pass for > those so called "gas chambers" in those so > called "factories of death" you could very > easily mistake not only a gas chamber for an > electrocution chamber but the whole "factory" > for a chicken shack. > > > > all of which have since been > > >proved to be hoaxes. > > > > Hoaxes or erroneous information that was long since forgotten until > > Holocaust deniers had to find something to justify their lies. > > Which lies? And by the way, wasn't your > battlecry supposed to be: "Never forget!"? ;-) > > > > Mr. Porter's website > > >contains translations of quite a number of > > >those "documents", all duly numbered and > > >referenced as part of authentic Nuremberg > > >evidence. > > > > >I suggest that you read some of them before > > >publicly making hysterical asses of > > >yourselves. > > > > I suggest you read Mr. Edeiken's essay on Carlos Porter's rather free > > attitude towards evidence before you are mistaken for yet another > > gullible fool: > > I see absolutely no point in wasting time on an > offensive troll whose polemic methods boil > down to statements like "you are a liar!" and > "Porter is full of shit!". > > As to Porter's attitude, I am not impressed by > it either, but it is rather irrelevant in this > discussion. He translated and published on the > web a series of outrageous, elaborate lies > submitted as evidence at the Nuremberg trial. I > am very grateful to him for making that > material available. If you think he made errors > or intentional misrepresentations, please, > share your findings with the rest of us. > > Pozdrowienia, > > Candide > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:31 EDT 1999 Article: 192190 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!easynet-tele!easynet.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: There ARE mass graves in T II air photos !!! >>ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:57:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: <38164004.24E72393@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192190 alt.revisionism:689727 soc.culture.ukrainian:59760 soc.culture.german:142806 John Morris wrote: > In <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Mon, 25 Oct > 1999 23:34:32 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear Dr. Orac, > > >You would prove revisionists wrong if you could show mass graves on air > >photos of Babi Yar or Treblinka II > > The mass graves are clear and distinct on the September 1944 Treblinka > II photo. It is just that neither you nor that apologist for child > molesters, John Ball, knows what to look for. > Dear Mr. Morris, Please also add that these mass graves measure about 400 square meters and are about 10% smaller than in Katyn. Thus in Treblinka II no more then about 4,000 Jews could be buried in this post-glacial dune. Polina > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:32 EDT 1999 Article: 192191 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:02:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 61 Message-ID: <3816412E.6FD795C2@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> <=DsUOFJ2L8ZOrATg0qODAZzCZO8z@4ax.com> <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689728 soc.culture.polish:192191 soc.culture.german:142808 soc.culture.russian:159871 Dear Mr Morris, 1) you are citing search on OCLC from a day or two ago. I was citing results >from about five years ago. Time accounts for diffrences. POlina Nureemberg Trial is non-contributory to the problem of physical evidence of the Holocaust/ Archeology, forinsic toxicology and air-photography are the primary and uncontrovertible fields which should be studied. Nuremberg is for you a primary diversion from the lack of physical hard evidence and for me is good only for intellectual relaxation and some smiles. Polina John Morris wrote: > In <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Mon, 25 Oct > 1999 15:18:05 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear John, > > >You are citing data from yeasterday. I cited availability from 1995. > > >I suspect you will castigate me for not perusing Internet in 1980s or 1970s > > >Have reason > > Have reason? Tell me how reasonable it is for you to prounounce > authoritatively on a trial record which you know only by what you have > read on Revisionist web pages. Tell me how reasonable it is for you > to claim the right to pronounce authoritatively simply because you > erroneously believe that the trial record is unavailable to you. > > I gave you a list of 22 libraries which allow interlibrary loan. If > you can't get across the river to the New York Public Library, have > them send it to your local library in Queens. > > You can use a web browser can't you? > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > Now you have no excuse for your ignorance. Read the Indictment and > Judgment in Volume I. That's the most important part. If you then > want to assess the validity or quality of the evidence cited in the > Judgment, *then* go to the individual testimonies of the defendants > and the testimonies of both prosecution and defense witnesses > regarding each defendant. > > Until then, shut up. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Fuch the world lets murder people." -- Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999 From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:32 EDT 1999 Article: 192192 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:10:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 98 Message-ID: <381642DC.9353D9B5@catskill.net> References: <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7v4tcr$1t9m$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689730 soc.culture.polish:192192 soc.culture.german:142809 soc.culture.russian:159872 Yes, I can show you that they should know. Polish Government in Exile introduced it apparently only after Jewish prompting. They knew from the Editors of the XXth Century and the President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons that that was silly rubbish. Do not take my word for it Ask Polish Historical Society POB 8024 Stamford CT 06905 for supporting documentation. Or you are consider Nuremberg prosecutors STUPID? You, a nobody, a legal and forensic layman, today know that the STEAMING story of 2,000,000 was false. How come the multitueds of professionals at Nurembers could not figure it out? I think they felt that this lie will fly and it flew for nearly four deacades, until the advent of Revisionism. Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Candide wrote: > > [...] > > >Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some > >freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg. > >They were integral part of the prosecuting > >team of the IMT. It was that international > >prosecuting team who made the Katyn > >massacre a part of the indictment, and it was > >the same team who offered bogus Soviet > >documents as evidence. By doing it, the > >Western prosecutors not only compromised > >their professional integrity; they commited a > >criminal offence. > > Was the Soviet evidence with respect to Katyn admitted? Prosecution > teams often introduce evidence at trial, only to find themselves > unable to prove the case. Witness the Simpson trial, for instance. Are > you suggesting that only charges which are guaranteed to be successful > in court should be allowed? I.e. should we throw out our entire legal > system? > > As it turned out, I would think everyone (but the Soviets, of course) > would be pleased. The Soviets lost their case, and stood exposed > before the world as the perpetrators of the crime. The bogus evidence > was rejected by the Tribunal, which conclusively refuted charges of "show > trial" in the process. > > [...] > > >> Again, this is a Soviet report with no supporting documentation. > > > >Yes, another outrageous lie offered as > >evidence. > > ..and rejected by the Tribunal - the system worked, and evidenciary > standards were applied fairly... > > [...] > > >> Sorry. That was part of the US presentation and was based upon Polish > >> reports of observations made at a distance at Treblinka. If Polish > >> winters are as cold as the winters where I live, automotive engine > >> exhaust looks a lot like steam. > > > >Which would suggest Soviets were not alone > >in presenting false evidence. Do you have any > >reference to those mysterious "Polish reports" > >confusing an automotive engine with a steam > >chamber? > > The reports did not confuse an engine with a chamber, they confused > the exhaust from an engine with steam. That isn't difficult to > understand. Again, this charge did not hold up, and was not proven. > I'd say that's another plus for the Tribunal. > > Can you show that the Prosecution _knew_ the "steam" evidence was > false at the time they entered it into the Indictment, as the Soviets > clearly knew their's was? I don't know of any evidence that will > permit us to do that - do you? > > [...] > > >If you saw what pathetic structures pass for > >those so called "gas chambers" in those so > >called "factories of death" you could very > >easily mistake not only a gas chamber for an > >electrocution chamber but the whole "factory" > >for a chicken shack. > > You have seen them, have you? Can you describe them for us? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:32 EDT 1999 Article: 192200 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.usa Subject: The gas chambers and the Nuremberg Trial Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:29:06 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38164752.A376B044@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192200 alt.revisionism:689742 soc.culture.german:142810 soc.culture.ukrainian:59761 soc.culture.usa:423780 Dear Madams and Sirs, The prolonged and interesting discussion about the Nuremberg Show Trials nears end. I would like to conclude it under a different title by translating from German a part of a recent letter by the father of the modern Holocaust Revisionism Prof Robert Faurisson from France: "The Verdict at Nuremberg. The [French] Fabius-Gayssot Law rules that the verdict of the Nuremberg International Tribunal will ber used a indicator of the magnitude of the [German] Crimes against Humanity and by used as a touch stone to judge and sentence those who deny these crimes. Thus one the matter of the homicidal gas chambers is epiphenomenal of this matter and the history of the Holocaust. HOwever it is uncontrovertible that among 84,000 words of the Nuremberg Verdict in its French edition, there are at most 540 words which in unclear and obfuscatory manner refer to homicidal gas chambers. This implies, that only 1/160th of the Verdict, or 0.62% words refers to this sine qua none, crucial matter. In other words, 99,38% of the Nuremberg International Tribunal Verdict does not bother with this subject." end of Faurisson's quote Sincerely, Polina Borowska, member of the Polish Historical Society PS Just for fun, I wrote letter to Prof Faurrison asking how many words in the verdict are devoted to typhus and other epidemics and delousing chambers. I bet five dollars that at least 5,000 words! From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:56 EDT 1999 Article: 142677 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:49:42 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 226 Message-ID: <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689359 soc.culture.polish:192033 soc.culture.german:142677 soc.culture.russian:159700 Dear Yale, It is irrelevant if evidentiary material submitted to the Tribunal was admitted into court records as evidence. The fact that such phoney material was ATTEMPTED , as you admit, to be presented casts indelible shadow on the rest of materials and entire Trial. Prosecutors and Judges being the Victors of the WW II had [theoretically] access to plethora and aboundance real incriminating evidece. They had multitudes of personel to reject obviously confabulatory stories and obligation to submit bona fide data. The fact that they, the almighty, attempted to submit fabrications for ever deprecated the credibility of the ENTIRE proceedings. Once a liar always a liar. Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed in fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic delusions of liberated and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their phoney stories. Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even a SCINTILLA of a questionable evidence. Nuremberg was not a mafia trial where it is exceedingly difficult to get accurate evidence. All Nazi archives were opened to the victors. They should not need questionable and emotional eyewitnesses. They should not need faked soviet evidence. It should be rejected in the prosecutors chambers and not by the judges! Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and Kransondar trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and Leningrad trial of January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to death for the Katyn massacre! The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged secretly while the victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged publicly. Greetings from Polina "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Candide wrote in article > <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > > > > > > > Candide lied: > > > >> It is a well known fact that most (if not all) of > > >> the documents presented at Nuremberg trials > > >> were fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet > > >> political police, dominated almost entirely by > > >> jews. > > >> > > >> The most notorious examples of those false > > >> documents are the witness testimonies, the > > >> forensic report and other evidence produced at > > >> the trial of ten German officers accused of > > >> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > >> Katyn Forest. > > >> > > >> Nine of the accused have been found guilty. > > >> Seven of them were hanged and two died in > > >> Soviet gulags. > > >> > > >> After the fall of Communism, Russians have > > >> admitted that the Katyn massacre has in fact > > >> been committed by the NKVD and the > > >> evidence against the accused has been > > >> fabricated. > > >> > > >> Now, I have hardly any sympathy for the > > >> hanged Germans who had no business > > >> invading Poland at the first place, but in the > > >> eyes of law, they were innocent victims > > >> murdered in cold blood by the real > > >> masterminds of the Katyn mass murder, who > > >> shamelessly paraded at the trial as > > >> prosecutors, witnesses and experts. > > >> > > >> This but one example of seemingly endless list > > >> of false documents used as testimony at > > >> Nuremberg trials. > > >> > > >> More on the subject at: > > >> http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > >> http://www.cwporter.co.uk/two.htm > > > > to which a choir of jewish trolls replied > > (among other things): > > > > > > A lie from Candide: > > > This is, of course, historically stupid... > > > > > > It is not only not a "well known fact" but an utter fabrication. > > > > > > The Soviets supplied almost no documents whatsoever and the majority of > > > those they used in evidence were supplied to them by the US army. > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of > the > > > Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > > fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > > > But you will lie for them > > > > > > There was no finding by the > > > Tribunal that the Germans committed the Katyn Massacre. (...) > > > No person was, therefore, sentenced to death for the crime. > > > > > > Since you haven't named one your list is not, as you claim, without end > > > but without beginning. > > > > > > The garbage you pass off as "well > > > known facts" will then be instantly recognized as such. > > > > > > In other words, you have absolutley NO proof. > > > (...) you have no evidence at all to support it. > > > > What on earth is wrong with you people? Are > > lies and insults your only argument in > > discussion? > > Because you ARE lying. > > > I gave you a clear link to: > > http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > Porter is full of shit. > > > It is a document (translated for your > > convenience by Carlos W. Porter) introduced > > by the Soviets into evidence at the Nuremberg > > trial. It opens with the following statement: > > That is incorrect. It was never introduced into evidence and was not used > as support for the judgment. > > ------------------ > > DOCUMENT 054 USSR > > > > Report by a Special Soviet Commission, 24 > > January 1944, concerning the shooting of > > Polish officer prisoners of war in the > > forest of Katyn. > > In fact the Tribunal rejected the document as not being admissible in > evidence. > > > This "document" is an elaborate hoax > > describing in minute detail (on some forty > > pages of text) how, where and when the > > Germans killed the Polish officers whose > > mass graves were found at Katyn. > > And was not part of the evidence at Nuremberg. > > > Read it and tell me: is this not a sufficient > > example of false evidence given to the > > Tribunal by the NKVD? > > But it was not part of the evidence at Nuremberg. It was rejected by the > Tribunal. > > In fact, in a heated exchange the American counsel stated that the Soviets > should be held in contempt for attemting to introduce it. > > > Despite your statements to the contrary, the > > Katyn massacre WAS very well part of of the > > indictment at Nuremberg. Here is a quote > > from D. Irving's 'Nuremberg, The Last > > Battle': > > But the judgment of the Tribunal was that their report was rejected and > the ultimate judgment was that no convincing evidence had been introduced. > > > So, not only did Soviets introduce false > > evidence at Nuremberg but they also managed > > to attribute their own war crimes to Germans. > > As has been pointed out the report youcite wsa not introduced into > evidence. > > > > The Document 054 USSR quoted above is by > > no means the only example of the false > > testimony fabricated by NKVD and introduced > > as evidence at Nuremberg. There are other > > "documents", testifying for example to > > 4,000,000 gassed at Auschwitz > > No such document was introduced into evidence. > > > or describing > > the execution steam chambers or underground > > electrocution chambers or pedal operated > > killing machines, all of which have since been > > proved to be hoaxes. > > No such evidence was introduced into evidence. > > > Mr. Porter's website > > contains translations of quite a number of > > those "documents", all duly numbered and > > referenced as part of authentic Nuremberg > > evidence. > > That is incorrect. The ignorant Porter cited no such admission into > evidence. He cited only to the record of the trial. A record includes > material which was not introduced into evidence. He was too ignorant to > know the difference. > > > I suggest that you read some of them before > > publicly making hysterical asses of > > yourselves. > > I suggest you learn what you are talking about before you lie like you did > here. > > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:56 EDT 1999 Article: 142715 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:34:32 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 49 Message-ID: <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192087 alt.revisionism:689435 soc.culture.ukrainian:59712 soc.culture.german:142715 Dear Dr. Orac, You would prove revisionists wrong if you could show mass graves on air photos of Babi Yar or Treblinka II and explained why about 50 mass graves at the Treblinka I are clearly seen in these wartime reconnaissance photos. Exhumation of these graves revealed about 100 corpses in each, but no traces of gas chambers and no humongous mass graves to correspond to the 3,500,000 or 2,2000,000 or even the 890,000 victims have been found. 50,000 old and sick Jews were allegedly shot by the Nazis at the Treblinka II Lazaret. Excavation conducted under the egis of a Jewish Judge Magistrate Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz from the District Court at Siedlce revealed some rubbish, badges of Jewish policemen (Ordnungdienst) absence of skeletons allegedly cremated and most importantly absence of at least 50,000 slugs and casings. Instead the careful archeology of the site discovered about 90 various coins among them several US pennies. Again, why we do find skeletons of Polish Ukrainian Byelorussian, Russian and even Finish victims of WWII murdered or executed by beligerents but we can not find the remains of millions of Jews the Nazis did not have the time to cremate Greetings from Polina Orac wrote: > In article <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, "Grazyna Lesniak" > wrote: > > > polin : > > (...) > > >Todays revisionists are like the yeasterdays dissidents of the USSR > > (...) > > > > Let's revise this comparison. > > > > They told the truth. You ask : "prove, that our absurds aren't lies". > > And then, when we do prove that their absurd statements are lies," they > keep repeating them! > > [Snip] > > -- > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."--Orac > a.k.a. | > David Gorski|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you > | inconvenience me with questions?"--Orac again From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:56 EDT 1999 Article: 142717 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Quaintities of Soviet evidence at Nuremberg Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:06:30 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 79 Message-ID: <381528C5.722C973F@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> <7v27if$rn2$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689443 soc.culture.polish:192092 soc.culture.german:142717 soc.culture.russian:159759 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Do not accuse me for not having NIT proceedings. I complained about the fact that they were hardly accessible even to a ardent student. I also stated that I do not care about these proceedings as the entire trial was a show trial. It is not worth to spent time to study them to just slightly embarass the WW II Holocaust believers. For years I hammer that the importrant this in this argument is the lack of the physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews. I do not wish to digress into trivia such as [extorted] testimonies of alleged perpetrators or martyrological group fantasies of survivors. Lets go back to the starting point and start looking for the bones of the 3-4M Jews the Nazis did not have time to cremate. This is what the prosecution at Nuremberg should have done first place. Instead they were talking about atomic energy and vaporizing prisoners with it e.g. Justice Jackson. Again, Mr Mc Vay where are the bones of the not cremated victims?? Once we establish their location then it will be worthwhile to review and consider as accurate testimonies of survivors and official Allied documents including Soviets. Polina Incidentally, you holocaustians blame Poles for the 4,000,000 Auschwitz hoaxy figure. Whom will you blame for the 600,000 victims of Lemberg etc??? The commissar of the Sovinform was Solomon Lozovsky. Smirnov, Porkovsky and most of the Soviet staff was also Jewish ... coincidence??? randomness??? Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > [...] > > >There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing > >designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, > >300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on > >this subject > >about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I > >do not have > >handy > > I have the "red set" here - it contains the documents listed as > evidence (but not necessarily introduced and accepted as such) for the > first tribunal. > > The designation "#6" is meaningless with respect to documents > submitted by the Soviets. > > Most of the documents submitted came from the American unit in Paris, > as has already been pointed out to you. > > What seems clear to me is that you have no real idea how many > documents were submitted by the Soviet Union, or how many were > submitted by others, and you have no idea whatsoever how many of the > Soviet documents were or were not accepted into evidence. > > It is also clear, from your own statements, that you do not have a > copy of any of the Nuremberg publications - i.e. you do not have the > red set (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca) which lists the > documents. > > That being the case, I cannot understand how you can make assertions - > which are essentially meaningless (to be kind) to anyone who _does_ > have the publications. > > Perhaps you can explain? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:57 EDT 1999 Article: 142718 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Quaintities of Soviet evidence at Nuremberg Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:06:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 79 Message-ID: <381528E0.D5A0B6DC@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138B92.78D385A6@catskill.net> <01bf1e80$8eb5f5c0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net> <7v27if$rn2$2@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689444 soc.culture.polish:192093 soc.culture.german:142718 soc.culture.russian:159760 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Do not accuse me for not having NIT proceedings. I complained about the fact that they were hardly accessible even to a ardent student. I also stated that I do not care about these proceedings as the entire trial was a show trial. It is not worth to spent time to study them to just slightly embarass the WW II Holocaust believers. For years I hammer that the importrant this in this argument is the lack of the physical evidence of the industrial murder of the Jews. I do not wish to digress into trivia such as [extorted] testimonies of alleged perpetrators or martyrological group fantasies of survivors. Lets go back to the starting point and start looking for the bones of the 3-4M Jews the Nazis did not have time to cremate. This is what the prosecution at Nuremberg should have done first place. Instead they were talking about atomic energy and vaporizing prisoners with it e.g. Justice Jackson. Again, Mr Mc Vay where are the bones of the not cremated victims?? Once we establish their location then it will be worthwhile to review and consider as accurate testimonies of survivors and official Allied documents including Soviets. Polina Incidentally, you holocaustians blame Poles for the 4,000,000 Auschwitz hoaxy figure. Whom will you blame for the 600,000 victims of Lemberg etc??? The commissar of the Sovinform was Solomon Lozovsky. Smirnov, Porkovsky and most of the Soviet staff at Nuremberg were also Jewish ... coincidence??? randomness??? Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814A163.B5B0F226@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > [...] > > >There is entire collection of Soviet delivered documents to Nuremberg I thing > >designated #6. There are descriptions in them of 600,000 Jewish vitims at Lviv, > >300,000 in Odessa etc. Polish Historical Society published a booklet on > >this subject > >about ten years ago, on the 50th anniverssary of the Babi Yar , which I > >do not have > >handy > > I have the "red set" here - it contains the documents listed as > evidence (but not necessarily introduced and accepted as such) for the > first tribunal. > > The designation "#6" is meaningless with respect to documents > submitted by the Soviets. > > Most of the documents submitted came from the American unit in Paris, > as has already been pointed out to you. > > What seems clear to me is that you have no real idea how many > documents were submitted by the Soviet Union, or how many were > submitted by others, and you have no idea whatsoever how many of the > Soviet documents were or were not accepted into evidence. > > It is also clear, from your own statements, that you do not have a > copy of any of the Nuremberg publications - i.e. you do not have the > red set (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca) which lists the > documents. > > That being the case, I cannot understand how you can make assertions - > which are essentially meaningless (to be kind) to anyone who _does_ > have the publications. > > Perhaps you can explain? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:57 EDT 1999 Article: 142721 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:37:40 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 154 Message-ID: <38153013.D4B3BF0@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> <7v2f6c$1l5g$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689452 soc.culture.polish:192097 soc.culture.german:142721 soc.culture.russian:159761 Dear Mr Mc Vay, Effectivelly cornered you lost your cool, which by itself is an evidence that you have no strong and valid arguments just adjectives. While the First World War holocaust was completely forgotten and the WW II Holocaust withers, under the pressure of revisionists, and the Holocaustians bemoan passing off of Survivors (if they pass away how we are going to prove it to the future generations - a standard media cry), you are trying to preserve the authority of the Nuremberg Trial. Valiant effort Mr Mc Vay, but it will not do. To be belivable you must come with physical evidence. I am not 100% revisionist and I am not Nazi apologist. For example lately I hammer the unexplicable fact that about half of Polish clergy died at Dachau while it was not so with other nationalities. I am much disliked by quite a few revisionists and virtually all anti-Semites and to the same extent by you. I think I am the only revisionist who appreciates your web page. I think I am one of very few revisionists ready to become holocaustian again once solid physical evidence of industrial murder by the Nazis is presented. Will you become a revisionist when such evidence will not be forthcoming. And where are cremation pits and remains of mass graves which contained 48,000,000 victims of Belzec (every hour on the hour 10,000 vctims) or the 1,500,000 victims or at least 600,000 victims. Why do you think Polish authorities drag their feet with releasing archeology of Belzec or the Hydrokop report. These studies should confirm the industrial killing and should be publicized on front pages of all papers. And why Nazis did not completely covered the traces of their crime??? Why they did not bother even to start cremations at the mass graves of the 10,000 vixctims of the Treblinka II for Poles??? Lets forget about the shinanigans of the prosecutors and politicians and judges during the Nuremberg trial or even the Tardive Dyskinesia of Eichmann. While I mention that I do not put much weight into that. So what that Eichmann was fed with Thorazine. So what that he was spilling delusions about geysers of blood. The important subject is : how many Jewish skeletons or cremation pyres or cremation pits were discovered by archeologists at Lwow (Lemhberg). And indeed, the search was done in that city about 20 years ago especially in Lysynechi forest. But as usuall when the Jewish deaths are involved the archeology is classified as secret. Sincerely Polina Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net>, > polin wrote: > > >It is irrelevant if evidentiary material submitted to the Tribunal was > >admitted into > >court records as evidence. > > Not at all. It is relevant as it shows that material which was not > admitted as evidence did not meet the evidenciary standards set by the > tribunal - something which would have meant nothing if the tribunal > was a "show trial," as you have claimed. Had that been true, all of > the evidence submitted by the prosecution would have been admitted. > Get used to it. > > >The fact that such phoney material was ATTEMPTED , as you admit, to > >be presented > >casts indelible shadow on the rest of materials and entire Trial. > > Actually, it casts credibility upon the tribunal and its standards, > although you - for reasons known only to yourself and other deniers - > cannot see this. It clearly shows that standards existed and were > adhered to. Sorry about that, but your own contentions are nonsense > when considered beneath the light of the very evidence you submit in > your attempt to discredit the tribunal. > > >Prosecutors and Judges being the Victors of the WW II had > >[theoretically] access to > >plethora and aboundance real incriminating evidece. They had multitudes > >of personel > >to reject obviously confabulatory stories and obligation to submit bona > >fide data. > > >The fact that they, the almighty, attempted to submit fabrications for > >ever deprecated > >the credibility of the ENTIRE proceedings. Once a liar always a liar. > > Sorry about that, but, once again, you have only managed to defeat > your own "case" and show the validity of the evidenciary process. > Thank you so much for doing that! > > >Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed in > >fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic > >delusions of liberated > >and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their > >phoney stories. > > _Judges_ decide whether or not evidence is worthy of submission, not > attornies for defence or prosecution. By your rather strange > standards, we would have to dismiss just about every civil and > criminal trial ever held.... duh... > > >Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even > >a SCINTILLA > >of a questionable evidence. > > What colour is the sky where you live? Where did you get your legal > training? A Wheaties box? > > >Nuremberg was not a mafia trial where it is exceedingly difficult to get > >accurate > >evidence. All Nazi archives were opened to the victors. They should not need > >questionable and emotional eyewitnesses. They should not need faked > >soviet evidence. > >It should be rejected in the prosecutors chambers and not by the judges! > > What a strange concept of trial law you have, "Irene Polinhis > Miron Nasaduke!" > > >Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and Kransondar > >trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and > >Leningrad trial of > >January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to > >death for the > >Katyn massacre! > > If that had been true, the evidence would have been admitted into > evidence, as it always is during show trials. Again, thank you for > defeating your own case! > > Isn't it reassuring to note that while a Soviet show trial did indeed > convict Germans for the Katyn killings, the Nuremberg Tribunal did not > - in fact, as you very well know, at _Nuremberg_ it was conclusively > shown that Soviet charges were utter crap. How do you explain that, > "Irene Polinhis Miron Nasaduke?" > > >The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged > >secretly while the > >victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged publicly. > > Don't be so modest, old bean... the difference is that the Germans > were absolved of complicity in the Katyn killings during the Nuremberg > tribunal, an indisputable _fact_ which throws your entire thesis right > into the giwer. > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:57 EDT 1999 Article: 142722 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!skynet.be!195.224.165.20.MISMATCH!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:43:37 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 50 Message-ID: <38153179.18559C5D@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <01bf1f33$417d7f40$e19910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689453 soc.culture.polish:192098 soc.culture.german:142722 soc.culture.russian:159762 Yale below engages in total disinformation. I am not sure if this is premeditated or due to his superficial knowledge of the matter. Probably both. During the WW II there was a total cover up of the Katyn massacre in the media of the United States of America. Please do not trust me. Please check the New York Times Index and find one mention of Katyn during mid 1940s. You will find none. America and GB were engaged in cover up of Soviet crimes "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > Peter Haefner wrote in article > ... > > On 23 Oct 1999 11:44:30 -0400, "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: > > > > >> The most notorious examples of those false > > >> documents are the witness testimonies, the > > >> forensic report and other evidence produced at > > >> the trial of ten German officers accused of > > >> murdering thousands of Polish POWs at the > > >> Katyn Forest. > > > > > > You are wrong again. The Soviets presented no doucmentary evidence of > the > > >Katyn massacre and what evidence they did present was easily proven > > >fraudulent to the Tribunal which did not credit it. > > > > The Soviets were deliberatly producing false evidence to pin the > > massacre to the Germans. > > That is correct. The evidence they produced, however, was neither > documentary evidence or eyewitness testimony. They relied on several > reports from pathologists and some hearsay testimony. > > It is now well-known that it was the Soviets as was suspected almost from > the moment that the massacre was discovered. There was a report rendered > to the US Department of State before the end of the war which stated that > the massacre was the work of the Soviets. > > There was one fact that put the issue in doubt for many years and, > ironically it was the forencsic study produced by the nazis. It found that > the victims had been murdered with ammunition manufactured in Germany. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:58 EDT 1999 Article: 142723 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:55:17 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 124 Message-ID: <38153435.B550E8D2@catskill.net> References: <7v0ool$ev1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1ef0$89c47080$9f9a10cf@default> <3814B455.9EAEC904@catskill.net> <01bf1f36$0384e7c0$e19910cf@default> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689460 soc.culture.polish:192099 soc.culture.german:142723 soc.culture.russian:159763 "Yale F.Edeiken" wrote: snip But the Tribunal did not attempt to submit fabrications and, as you now > admit, did not accept them. > The only one being a liar now is you. I object to your assesment. Incidentally, the Polish government introduced materials about 2,000,000 Jews steamed to death at the baths at Treblinka. Was this admitted as evidence and what which death count the Tribunal established as true, could you tell me. Incidentally, what is your decision on selling me a copy of the video of Eichmann trial or giving me address where you bought it. How about the list of Allentown libraries having sets of Nuremberg transcritps??? There are some revisionist who damage the cause and some holocaustians who damage the Holocaust and you are one of them. I think Mc Vay and Keren do better job on fighting revisionists. I think you should help them and not produce your writings. Help them to put more documentation on the Internet. And there are many which prevent us from sleeping at night. Listen to prof Hilberg who says that tons of Nazi documents on acid paper never red desintegrate at the storage in Sutherland, MD. Polina > > > > Prosecutors should be riding on white horse in shining armors not dressed > in > > fabrications and martyrological mythology or outright psychotic delusions > of liberated > > and hysterical survivors expecting remuneration and favors for their > phoney stories. > > And they put together one hell of a case. It depended almost entirely on > the documents of the accused and consisted of overwhelming proof which you > cannot refute except by lying about it. > > As you have several times. > > > Each of the dozens of volumes of the Proceedings should not contain even > a SCINTILLA > > of a questionable evidence. > > False. It is the record of a trial. It is the duty of a person compiling > a trial record to include EVERYTHING from the trial. Furthermore, as you > now admit, the specific documents you are complaining about were NOT > evidence. > > > Nuremberg was a soviet style show trial, patterend on the Kharkiv and > Kransondar > > trials of summer of 1943, Kyiv 1944 for Babi Yar Lublin 1944 and > Leningrad trial of > > January 1946 during which 12 high german officers were condemned to death > for the > > Katyn massacre! > > You are a liar. There is no other word for it. > > > The only difference was that the victims of Nuremberg where hanged > secretly while the > > victims Kharkiv, Krasnodar, Kyiv Lublin and Leningragd were hunged > publicly. > > No. The overwhelming opinion of those legal scholars who have studied the > trial is that the defendants received a fair trial. Even those who > disagree with the IMT trial and the attorneys for the defense have stated > that. If you really believe the garbage you present, you would have had no > problem in demonstrating how the defendants were denied a fair trial. > > Indeed the actions of Justice Musmanno (in the EG trial) was so highly > regarded by the defense counsel that they presented him a token of their > appreciation and cited his rulings in mundane criminal cases in German > courts. > > Not only have you failed to supply a single right of a fair trial that the > defendants were denied but you have made a fool of yourself when you tried. > > Start with the basics of a fair trial: > > Were the defendants allowed counsel of their choice? > > Were the defendants allowed to cross-examine prosecution witnesses and > challenge prosecution evidence? > > Did the rulings of the Tribunal conform to legal standards of the time? > > Were the Defendants allowed to present evidence of their own? > > Were the Defendants allowed to testify in their own defense? > > Were the defendants, in this case, allowed to make unsworn statements to > theTribunal that were not subject to cross-examination? > > Did the judgment of the Tribunal conform to the evidence that was before > them? > > Each of these questions can be unequivocally answered in the affirmative. > > As you have stated elsewhere, you do not even know what happened at the > trial or what the evidence is. You ahve even demonstrated that you do not > even know what evidence is. > > In short, you are an apologist for the nazis, stamping your foot and > demanding that others accept your garbled ideas as trueand correct. > > --YFE > > The Holocaust History Project is at http://www.holocaust-history.org/ > The Nizkor Project is at http://www.nizkor.org/ > The Einsatzgruppen page is at http://www.pgonline.com/electriczen/ > The Cybrary of the Holocaust is at http://www.remember.org/ From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:58 EDT 1999 Article: 142795 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: compulsive-obsessive Polina ??Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:30:33 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 99 Message-ID: <38163999.9E972BDB@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689720 soc.culture.polish:192186 soc.culture.german:142795 soc.culture.russian:159863 John Talmudicaly splits hair and veers of the principal of the matter. The fact that Justice Jacson lowered himself to using dirty tricks on Spear with vaporisation while he had or should have abandance of uncontrovertible evidence is a great embarassment to this entire [Show] Trial. John also snipped out my questions how Jackson arrived at such "indirect" in the first place e.g. prevarication of Jackson's or survisor's Who cares about Nurember?? I do not. The Sulzberger's New York Times did not even care about Auschwitz for years. But about that subject in the next posting. Polina, PS Some readers asked me in e-mail how come that I do not react to invectives slurs personals and gutter language of my holocaustian opponents. My response is the following. 1) I know that I will never convince about anything Mr Morris Drs Keren and Gorski a.k.a ORAC or Yale or Philps or even K. Mc Vay. HOwever, 2) I use them as convenient sounding board and use their frequently irrational and uncivil responses as a forum 3) I am not afraid that by stating that I will lose them. They are primarlily compulsive-obsessive arguers and only secondarily Holocasutians. No reason, NOTHING will stop compulsive-obsessive individual. There are no effective therapies known for this condition or a trait. 4) HOw do I know that they are compulsive obsessive? Because they do not heed the Holocaustianity party line which forbids debate with Revisionist and because of their persistance and lack of rationality and reason in their responses. 5) How do I know that I am not compulsive-obsessive [CO] myself? a) CO restrict themself to one subject be it Holocaustianity or brushing theeth before and after every meal or even drink, or washing their hands 66 times a day before and after opening the refrigerator. MOreover CO could not stop their rituals or activity. You will notice that I post on various subjects and with temporary hiatuses (hiati ?? in Latin?) when I am busy with every day matters. For me posting on the net is an educational entertainment. b) virtually all CO are pedantic even in spelling and I am to lazy to bother to do the spell check since I learned that you will read me anyway atrocious errors in spelling and syntax as well as occasional inaccuracies in the historical details. Greetings to all from Polina even to my oponents John Morris wrote: > In <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> in alt.revisionism, on 25 Oct 1999 19:06:21 > GMT, kmcvay@veritas.nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote: > > >In article <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net>, > >polin wrote: > > >>Astonishing! > > >The only "astonishing" item here is your apparently deliberate attempt > >to suggest that unproven information from the Indictment had any > >bearing upon the Judgment. > > I must demur. Using the keywords "Auschwitz," "atomic," and > "experiment," I am unable to find any reference in the Nuremberg > indictments to an experiment to vaporize Jews at Auschwitz with atomic > weapons. > > It is plain that Jackson's question--the sole reference in the entire > proceedings--was merely an indirection to induce Speer to testify > about rumours which the Nazis employed to prolong the war. > > You are right that there is no question whether Jackson attempted to > prove that such an experiment took place. He did not. > > This thread has become a mere demonstration of Mr. Dragan's > credulousness when dealing with information from Revisionist web > pages. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:58 EDT 1999 Article: 142805 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:50:21 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 257 Message-ID: <38163E3C.9E5AC731@catskill.net> References: <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689725 soc.culture.polish:192187 soc.culture.german:142805 soc.culture.russian:159869 Good evening, Finally, an excellent rebuttal and posting (below) from Mr Candide if I do not mix up Candide and Odrzanski. Instead sobriquetic oneliners true and excellent rebuttal. Bravo. Candide states he is not aware that Polish Gov in Exile was presenting fake evidence on their own. Dr. Sawicki was the Polish presenter of the Treblinka industrial murder by steaming 2,000,000 Jews to death. Ask Polish Historical Society for the complete text. They have about 100,000 pages of archival material (about one cubic meter) on Treblinka It was Dr. Dragan from STamford and T. Lazarski from the Hoover Institue in California who jointly discovered the galleys of the article about Treblinka steam chambers from the July 1943 issue of the XXth Century the leading political and intellectual magazine of the British Empire. >From this research it became evident that Prof Sir Charles Dodd the pres. of the Royal Soc of Physicians and Surgeons and inventor of the synthetic stilbestrol was the first WW II Holocaust Revisionist and that the movement got born during "taking the tea" at the nearby restaurant La Escargote (Pod Slimakiem) still in existance by Dodd and the editor of the magazine. Strangely this is within the shouting distance of the domicile of David Irving according to the last May's NYT a respected historian with inappropriate perspective, no longer a Neo-Nazi or lunatic. Greetings from Polina and thanks for an excellent post. Candide wrote: > John Morris wrote: > > > > Candide wrote: > > > > > >What on earth is wrong with you people? Are > > >lies and insults your only argument in > > >discussion? > > > > >I gave you a clear link to: > > >http://www.cwporter.co.uk/k1.htm > > > > The first thing you should understand is that Carlos Porter is a very > > bad liar. > > > > >It is a document (translated for your > > >convenience by Carlos W. Porter) introduced > > >by the Soviets into evidence at the Nuremberg > > >trial. It opens with the following statement: > > > > Yes, it is a document, but it contains no supporting documentary > > evidence of the Soviet charge. > > > > >----------------------------- > > >DOCUMENT 054 USSR > > > > >Report by a Special Soviet Commission, 24 > > >January 1944, concerning the shooting of > > >Polish officer prisoners of war in the > > >forest of Katyn. The executions had been > > >carried out in autumn 1941 by the German > > >"Staff of the Construction Battalion > > >537". In spring 1943 the Germans, by > > >blackmailing witnesses into giving false > > >evidence and by other means, had tried to > > >make it appear that the Soviet NKWD was > > >responsible for the shooting of the 11,000 > > >victims. > > >----------------------------- > > > > >This "document" is an elaborate hoax > > >describing in minute detail (on some forty > > >pages of text) how, where and when the > > >Germans killed the Polish officers whose > > >mass graves were found at Katyn. > > > > >Read it and tell me: is this not a sufficient > > >example of false evidence given to the > > >Tribunal by the NKVD? > > > > Without a doubt, you have identified a single piece of false evidence > > presented by the Soviets. > > > > But that is not the same as claiming, "It is a well known fact that > > most (if not all) of the documents presented at Nuremberg trials were > > fabricated by the NKVD - the Soviet political police, dominated almost > > entirely by jews." > > I hope it is obvious that this was an accidental > error on my part. What I intended to say was: > "... most (if not all) of the documents > presented by the Soviets at Nuremberg trials > were fabricated ..." > > > > > >Despite your statements to the contrary, the > > >Katyn massacre WAS very well part of of the > > >indictment at Nuremberg. Here is a quote > > >from D. Irving's 'Nuremberg, The Last > > >Battle': > > > > No one claimed that it wasn't part of the indictment. In fact, it was > > part of Count Three: War Crimes. > > > > What Yale states--and it is quite true--no German defendant was > > convicted of the Katyn massacre. Rather, the defence successfully > > rebutted the charge. > > Well, not "quite true". None of the German > defendants in Nuremberg was found guilty of > that particular crime, true, but on the base of > the same false evidence several German > defendants WERE convicted and publicly > hanged in Leningrad, during the Nuremberg > trial. > > Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some > freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg. > They were integral part of the prosecuting > team of the IMT. It was that international > prosecuting team who made the Katyn > massacre a part of the indictment, and it was > the same team who offered bogus Soviet > documents as evidence. By doing it, the > Western prosecutors not only compromised > their professional integrity; they commited a > criminal offence. > > > > > >"(...) Most outrageously, on General > > >Rudenkoâ*™s insistence at the very last meeting > > >of the prosecuting staffs the indictment was > > >amended to include the murder in the Katyn > > >forest of 11,000 Polish officers. > > > > Irving is right. For once Revisionists are right: it is outrageous > > that the Soviets tried to pass off their own war crimes as Nazi > > crimes. > > > > >Point 3, paragraph C of the indictment would > > >read: 'In September 1941 eleven thousand > > >Polish prisoners-of-war were killed in the > > >Katyn forest, near Smolensk.' " [end quote]. > > > > >So, not only did Soviets introduce false > > >evidence at Nuremberg but they also managed > > >to attribute their own war crimes to Germans. > > >And, as if murdering 15,000 (not 11,000) of > > >defenceless Polish prisoners was not enough, > > >they also staged a trial of some German > > >officers who were "directly responsible" for > > >Katyn massacre, and publicly hanged seven of > > >them in Leningrad. The film documenting this > > >execution was shown to the international > > >members of the Tribunal as part of the after > > >hours entertainment. > > > > > >The Document 054 USSR quoted above is by > > >no means the only example of the false > > >testimony fabricated by NKVD and introduced > > >as evidence at Nuremberg. There are other > > >"documents", testifying for example to > > >4,000,000 gassed at Auschwitz or describing > > > > Again, this is a Soviet report with no supporting documentation. > > Yes, another outrageous lie offered as > evidence. > > > In > > this particular case, the Soviets estimated the crematory capacity at > > Auschwitz and assumed that it ran flat out most of the time. This was > > a bad assumption as subsequent historical research has borne out. > > > > The Tribunal did not cite the Soviet report in its judgment, though. > > Instead thet cited the testimony of Rudolph Hoess. At Nuremberg, > > Hoess claimed that Eichmann had told him 2.5 million. But when tried > > in Poland, Hoess realized that the actual death toll was closer to 1.1 > > million which is, in fact, very close to the death toll cited by > > Western historians. > > > > >the execution steam chambers > > > > Sorry. That was part of the US presentation and was based upon Polish > > reports of observations made at a distance at Treblinka. If Polish > > winters are as cold as the winters where I live, automotive engine > > exhaust looks a lot like steam. > > Which would suggest Soviets were not alone > in presenting false evidence. Do you have any > reference to those mysterious "Polish reports" > confusing an automotive engine with a steam > chamber? > > > > or underground > > >electrocution chambers or pedal operated > > >killing machines, > > > > You've got me on how gas chambers could be mistaken for electrocution > > chambers, but I wonder if the other one isn't a mistake for the metal > > frame that held prisoners' heads in place while the "doctors" took > > racial specimen pictures. > > If you saw what pathetic structures pass for > those so called "gas chambers" in those so > called "factories of death" you could very > easily mistake not only a gas chamber for an > electrocution chamber but the whole "factory" > for a chicken shack. > > > > all of which have since been > > >proved to be hoaxes. > > > > Hoaxes or erroneous information that was long since forgotten until > > Holocaust deniers had to find something to justify their lies. > > Which lies? And by the way, wasn't your > battlecry supposed to be: "Never forget!"? ;-) > > > > Mr. Porter's website > > >contains translations of quite a number of > > >those "documents", all duly numbered and > > >referenced as part of authentic Nuremberg > > >evidence. > > > > >I suggest that you read some of them before > > >publicly making hysterical asses of > > >yourselves. > > > > I suggest you read Mr. Edeiken's essay on Carlos Porter's rather free > > attitude towards evidence before you are mistaken for yet another > > gullible fool: > > I see absolutely no point in wasting time on an > offensive troll whose polemic methods boil > down to statements like "you are a liar!" and > "Porter is full of shit!". > > As to Porter's attitude, I am not impressed by > it either, but it is rather irrelevant in this > discussion. He translated and published on the > web a series of outrageous, elaborate lies > submitted as evidence at the Nuremberg trial. I > am very grateful to him for making that > material available. If you think he made errors > or intentional misrepresentations, please, > share your findings with the rest of us. > > Pozdrowienia, > > Candide > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:58 EDT 1999 Article: 142806 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!easynet-tele!easynet.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.german Subject: Re: There ARE mass graves in T II air photos !!! >>ORAC please correct me about TB >>>Why >>> Priests Murdered in Dachau??? >>> Concentration Camp Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:57:56 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 36 Message-ID: <38164004.24E72393@catskill.net> References: <381327AA.44158AC2@catskill.net> <19991024123206.28493.00000527@ng-ck1.aol.com> <38138499.393AC990@catskill.net> <7v00du$1ig$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192190 alt.revisionism:689727 soc.culture.ukrainian:59760 soc.culture.german:142806 John Morris wrote: > In <38152147.D6F256B5@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Mon, 25 Oct > 1999 23:34:32 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear Dr. Orac, > > >You would prove revisionists wrong if you could show mass graves on air > >photos of Babi Yar or Treblinka II > > The mass graves are clear and distinct on the September 1944 Treblinka > II photo. It is just that neither you nor that apologist for child > molesters, John Ball, knows what to look for. > Dear Mr. Morris, Please also add that these mass graves measure about 400 square meters and are about 10% smaller than in Katyn. Thus in Treblinka II no more then about 4,000 Jews could be buried in this post-glacial dune. Polina > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Nizkooks are not members of homosapiens. > They are members of Judeosapiens." Joe Bellinger, May 17, 1999. From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:59 EDT 1999 Article: 142808 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:02:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 61 Message-ID: <3816412E.6FD795C2@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <01bf1d6c$5a3d3f20$8e9910cf@default> <3812A94B.9C3E1470@catskill.net> <01bf1e4c$6aae0340$579b10cf@default> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <01bf1e7e$d199e6a0$2a9910cf@default> <=DsUOFJ2L8ZOrATg0qODAZzCZO8z@4ax.com> <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689728 soc.culture.polish:192191 soc.culture.german:142808 soc.culture.russian:159871 Dear Mr Morris, 1) you are citing search on OCLC from a day or two ago. I was citing results >from about five years ago. Time accounts for diffrences. POlina Nureemberg Trial is non-contributory to the problem of physical evidence of the Holocaust/ Archeology, forinsic toxicology and air-photography are the primary and uncontrovertible fields which should be studied. Nuremberg is for you a primary diversion from the lack of physical hard evidence and for me is good only for intellectual relaxation and some smiles. Polina John Morris wrote: > In <3814ACEC.1F344286@catskill.net> in alt.revisionism, on Mon, 25 Oct > 1999 15:18:05 -0400, polin wrote: > > >Dear John, > > >You are citing data from yeasterday. I cited availability from 1995. > > >I suspect you will castigate me for not perusing Internet in 1980s or 1970s > > >Have reason > > Have reason? Tell me how reasonable it is for you to prounounce > authoritatively on a trial record which you know only by what you have > read on Revisionist web pages. Tell me how reasonable it is for you > to claim the right to pronounce authoritatively simply because you > erroneously believe that the trial record is unavailable to you. > > I gave you a list of 22 libraries which allow interlibrary loan. If > you can't get across the river to the New York Public Library, have > them send it to your local library in Queens. > > You can use a web browser can't you? > > http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm > > Now you have no excuse for your ignorance. Read the Indictment and > Judgment in Volume I. That's the most important part. If you then > want to assess the validity or quality of the evidence cited in the > Judgment, *then* go to the individual testimonies of the defendants > and the testimonies of both prosecution and defense witnesses > regarding each defendant. > > Until then, shut up. > > [snip] > > -- > John Morris > at University of Alberta > -- > "Fuch the world lets murder people." -- Matt Giwer, October 26, 1999 From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:12:59 EDT 1999 Article: 142809 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:10:04 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 98 Message-ID: <381642DC.9353D9B5@catskill.net> References: <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7v4tcr$1t9m$1@hub.org> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:689730 soc.culture.polish:192192 soc.culture.german:142809 soc.culture.russian:159872 Yes, I can show you that they should know. Polish Government in Exile introduced it apparently only after Jewish prompting. They knew from the Editors of the XXth Century and the President of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons that that was silly rubbish. Do not take my word for it Ask Polish Historical Society POB 8024 Stamford CT 06905 for supporting documentation. Or you are consider Nuremberg prosecutors STUPID? You, a nobody, a legal and forensic layman, today know that the STEAMING story of 2,000,000 was false. How come the multitueds of professionals at Nurembers could not figure it out? I think they felt that this lie will fly and it flew for nearly four deacades, until the advent of Revisionism. Polina Borowska Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: > In article <7v3qt2$lj7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Candide wrote: > > [...] > > >Also, Soviet prosecutors were not some > >freelancers staging a side show in Nuremberg. > >They were integral part of the prosecuting > >team of the IMT. It was that international > >prosecuting team who made the Katyn > >massacre a part of the indictment, and it was > >the same team who offered bogus Soviet > >documents as evidence. By doing it, the > >Western prosecutors not only compromised > >their professional integrity; they commited a > >criminal offence. > > Was the Soviet evidence with respect to Katyn admitted? Prosecution > teams often introduce evidence at trial, only to find themselves > unable to prove the case. Witness the Simpson trial, for instance. Are > you suggesting that only charges which are guaranteed to be successful > in court should be allowed? I.e. should we throw out our entire legal > system? > > As it turned out, I would think everyone (but the Soviets, of course) > would be pleased. The Soviets lost their case, and stood exposed > before the world as the perpetrators of the crime. The bogus evidence > was rejected by the Tribunal, which conclusively refuted charges of "show > trial" in the process. > > [...] > > >> Again, this is a Soviet report with no supporting documentation. > > > >Yes, another outrageous lie offered as > >evidence. > > ..and rejected by the Tribunal - the system worked, and evidenciary > standards were applied fairly... > > [...] > > >> Sorry. That was part of the US presentation and was based upon Polish > >> reports of observations made at a distance at Treblinka. If Polish > >> winters are as cold as the winters where I live, automotive engine > >> exhaust looks a lot like steam. > > > >Which would suggest Soviets were not alone > >in presenting false evidence. Do you have any > >reference to those mysterious "Polish reports" > >confusing an automotive engine with a steam > >chamber? > > The reports did not confuse an engine with a chamber, they confused > the exhaust from an engine with steam. That isn't difficult to > understand. Again, this charge did not hold up, and was not proven. > I'd say that's another plus for the Tribunal. > > Can you show that the Prosecution _knew_ the "steam" evidence was > false at the time they entered it into the Indictment, as the Soviets > clearly knew their's was? I don't know of any evidence that will > permit us to do that - do you? > > [...] > > >If you saw what pathetic structures pass for > >those so called "gas chambers" in those so > >called "factories of death" you could very > >easily mistake not only a gas chamber for an > >electrocution chamber but the whole "factory" > >for a chicken shack. > > You have seen them, have you? Can you describe them for us? > > -- > The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource > Search: http://www.nizkor.org/search.html > Funding: http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html From polinhis@catskill.net Wed Oct 27 00:13:00 EDT 1999 Article: 142810 of soc.culture.german Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.usa Subject: The gas chambers and the Nuremberg Trial Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:29:06 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38164752.A376B044@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192200 alt.revisionism:689742 soc.culture.german:142810 soc.culture.ukrainian:59761 soc.culture.usa:423780 Dear Madams and Sirs, The prolonged and interesting discussion about the Nuremberg Show Trials nears end. I would like to conclude it under a different title by translating from German a part of a recent letter by the father of the modern Holocaust Revisionism Prof Robert Faurisson from France: "The Verdict at Nuremberg. The [French] Fabius-Gayssot Law rules that the verdict of the Nuremberg International Tribunal will ber used a indicator of the magnitude of the [German] Crimes against Humanity and by used as a touch stone to judge and sentence those who deny these crimes. Thus one the matter of the homicidal gas chambers is epiphenomenal of this matter and the history of the Holocaust. HOwever it is uncontrovertible that among 84,000 words of the Nuremberg Verdict in its French edition, there are at most 540 words which in unclear and obfuscatory manner refer to homicidal gas chambers. This implies, that only 1/160th of the Verdict, or 0.62% words refers to this sine qua none, crucial matter. In other words, 99,38% of the Nuremberg International Tribunal Verdict does not bother with this subject." end of Faurisson's quote Sincerely, Polina Borowska, member of the Polish Historical Society PS Just for fun, I wrote letter to Prof Faurrison asking how many words in the verdict are devoted to typhus and other epidemics and delousing chambers. I bet five dollars that at least 5,000 words! From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:29 EDT 1999 Article: 690321 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: social.culture.polish,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: [central-europe] Re: Re:a rambling post by Polina Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:26:57 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 123 Message-ID: <3818DBC0.29057D20@catskill.net> References: <19991027083606.69362.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690321 I have a serious doubts that banderivtsy were murderers or more of a murders than Armia Krajowa. I think the best term for both of them would be Freedom Fighters. Bunderivtsy executed some of their UKRAINIAN opponents THE SAME WAY Armia Krajowa executed their Polish opponents or traitors, or those who sold out hidden Jews to Germans (about 140 sentences were issued on such POLISH individuals. Moreover, Armia Krajowa executed two varsovian, Jews leaders of Biuro Informacji i Propagandy of the AK, Jerzy Makowiecki and S. Widerszal suspected of collaboration with the Soviets. The assasins were let in into the secret apartment of Widerszals as friends or aquaitnances in June 1944. Mr.Widerszal was shot, Mrs Widerszal, eignt months pregnant was untouched and protected until she gave birth and soon after the war emigrated with her dauther (so called pogorobowiec) to UNited STaes. After the war, Soviets, jointly with Armia Krajowa weterans blamed for this assasination Polish Nationalist Army (NSZ), but members of the NSZ would not be let in by Wiederszals as starngers and the killing would be instantly reported to the Nazis. Widerszals lived in Armia Krajowa safe-house apartment building and his murdere was not reported to German authorities apparently to perotect other members of the Home Army. Banderitvtsi are as much murderes as Poles are Jew-killers or as the industrial murder of the Jews by the Nazis. It is one of the political myths of the WW II. I am sure that if Armia Krajowa which fought with Ukrainians during 1942-early 1944, would consider Bandertivtsi as murderes they would not join theri forces in mid 1944 until mid 1946 when AK-WiN went defunct. One of the founding members of the Polish Historical Society sp Marian Golembiewski decorated with Virtuti Militari, the highest Polish military honor, and one of 203 Cichociemnych droped with parachute from England over occupied Poland and commander of AK in Hrubieszow region, also awarded with death sentence by Judeo-Polish courts in 1945, oragnized the last major battle of the Polish Uderground which was carried out jointly with Ukrainian Isurgency Army. Dear Klaudiusz, do you think that if Goloembiewski would consider banderivtsi as murderers he woudl fight the Free Poland's last battle with them not in hand to hand combat but in arm to arm attack on the Soviet NKVD-MVD??? The above described fact are carefuly hidden from Polish public in order to have a convinent wipping boy. And while we easily dug out our Polish victims at Palmiry, Treblinka II (about 10,000 ten thousand ... I am sure this is news to you hidden from Polish public in oder not to antagonize Jews) Katyn, Miednoje, Kharkiv and others tell me how many remains of Polish victims allegedly murdered by Ukrainians have been forensically examined during the last 50 years? And when a small mass graves have been ehxumed recently, tell me what determinations was made that the skeletons were of the Polish populace which was executed and not died shot and/or wounded, and burned beyond recognition after being shot or wounded in Volynian lepianki during GErmans attacks along with units of Ukrainian Police/ Volynuian lepianki or Slavic adobe village homesteads were made of layers of mud and willow branches easily penetrable by stray bullets and had roofs covered with strzechy, bone dry straw during dry Wolynian summers ergo highly flammable. Did Nazis and Ukrainians ordered by them to jonin the pacification and reprisal actions acted because they hated Kosciuszko, or Polish speach or Polish national costumes or they felt the lords of the World. No Sir. They were acting within the international law of conduct of war as stipulated by the 1907 and 1922 Hague and Geneva convetions that partisant warfare is stircly verbotten. An Home Army didi not derailed and attack military transports in Poland but in Lithuanina, Byelorussia and Ukraine in so the Germans will carry out repraisals on L. B. and U. but not Poles. Hardly a Wodylowski and Kmicic chivalary. One of such widespread actions on Kresy against the Germans was called BURZA. I do expect that my posting will create the same a big storm. But after the each STORM skys clear and hopefully the blessing of TRUTH will descend on you while the darkness of martyrological mytholgy and resulting hatrered of Your Neighbor will fade including Jews. Respectfully, Polina For example there is Klaudiusz Wesolek wrote: > >From: polin > > > >Activation of Ukrainian diaspora is unnecessary. They are active. >Some > >of them left America > >and moved to Kyjv and I think Jaroslava Stecko leading banderite is > > >elected member of the > >Ukrainian Duma (Sejm). > But banderivtsy - the movement of former murderers, plays a very bad role > in Ukraine. While some people are close to starvation they "feed" them with > the shovinist poison - I saw the bullshit books they distribute there. And > while they are presented as a main alternative to communists, many > Ukrainians start to support communists and postcommunists or don't want to > have anything common with politics. > On the other hand - democrats from Ukrainian diaspora would accept the worst > shit in Ukraine if it is under a formally democratic cover... > And generally Polish, Ukrainian and other diasporas in postcommunist > countries are able only to different kind of "preaching". > The exception is Baltic countries. President of Lithuania is from diaspora, > in Latvia president or prime minister is from diaspora too. > In Estonia the first minister of defence was a retired American officer and > we may find many other examples... So those facts spoil Your theory that > diaspora is active only in the situation, when the country looses > independence. > Or maybe Your theory is true only for Poles? Only for Slavs? Or maybe Poles > in Poland didn't give the diaspora chance to help them?What do You think? > > cheers > > Klaudiusz > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Great books for the discriminating readers. From the > classics to the contemporaries choose any 3 books > for $1.99 each & get 1 FREE when you join Readers’ > Subscription books club http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1365 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:29 EDT 1999 Article: 690334 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist?? [central-europe] Fwd: [SASIEDZI] Famine March Update Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:48:45 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 92 Message-ID: <3818EEED.BB2F3757@catskill.net> References: <7v9dng$t8am@eGroups.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192450 soc.culture.ukrainian:59872 alt.revisionism:690334 Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday's posting, Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine. I have been labeled as Ukrainian asshole trying ineffectively to pass as a Pole. Still certified Pole Klaudiusz advocates Ukrainian martyrological rituals while I clandestine Ukrainian recommend ignoring this holocaustian extrqavaganza in the NYC. Many Ukrainians died of starvations in 1930-33. But the Polish anti-Soviet press never stressed this near cataclysm occvuring just behind its borders and Ukrainan press in America was abivalent about its extent. Morover the numbers ov victims cited on the banners in protests by Ukrainian in Munchen before Nuremberg trials cited figures magnitude smaller that soon after the Trial and the creation of the WW II 6,000,000 count. To outbid the Jews Ukrainians jumoped to 7,000,000. Presently to offset the Jews even more they claim 10,000,000. Looks like Ukes are fast learners from the eternal money changers. Propagandists counts should and must be discounted. If indeed 7-10M Ukes starved, where are their mass graves. Indeed many Ukrainian villages from the surface of the earth in early 1930's. But the questions remains to what degree it due to starvation or and deportations to the belt of virgin chernozem (Yes! there is such an "English" word in the Collegiate Webster's Dictionary) of "Zelena Ukraina" Green Triangle,(West of Valdivostok or both. Clearly, Soviets statistics can not be trusted. However looking in to phone book of Valdivostok and especially small towns West of Valdivostok would provide an agenda-less scholar with the answer. My suspicion is that 90% of inhabitants of these towns speak mostly Russian but all 90% have easily recognizible Ukrainian surnames. Same can not be applied to Jews Poland and former Poland's lands after the WW II because close to 98 % of them slavicized their Jewish names and surnames like the parents of our President. My "pro-Ukrainian" post of about an hour ago, surely will created a storm among martyrological Poles for denying the Volynian Holocaust. Now all Ukrainian martyrologically minded fascists will try to bash brains out of my skull. With revisionist greetings, Polina Borowska wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > Begin forwarded message: > > Subject: Famine March Update > > The famine march is now solidified. On November 20, 1999 there will > be a > procession to mourn and remember the 7 - 10 million Ukrainians that > perished > as a result of the famine of 1932-1933. The procession will assemble > at > 10:00am at St. George's (on 7th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.) and at All > Saints > Orthodox Church (on 11th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.). The procession > departs for > St. Patrick's Cathedral at 11:00 am. At about 1:00 p.m. there will > be a > mass and prayers at St. Patrick's (on 5th Ave.) > > It is my understanding that many from outside the NYC area will be > attending > this commemoration. Some cities have buses that will be transporting > people > to the event. You may want to inquire what the arrangements are in > your > area. > > Since this takes place on a Saturday, it would be a great idea for as > many > of the Ukes to join in on this. - Read on and pass it on... > > Please forward this to all who would (should) be interested. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 > Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. > Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:29 EDT 1999 Article: 690335 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!WCG!WCG2!12.127.16.134!attmtf!ip.att.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist?? [central-europe] Fwd: [SASIEDZI] Famine March Update Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:49:49 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 92 Message-ID: <3818EF2C.E7EDD2CE@catskill.net> References: <7v9dng$t8am@eGroups.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192455 soc.culture.ukrainian:59873 alt.revisionism:690335 Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday's posting, Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine. I have been labeled as Ukrainian asshole trying ineffectively to pass as a Pole. Still certified Pole Klaudiusz advocates Ukrainian martyrological rituals while I clandestine Ukrainian recommend ignoring this holocaustian extrqavaganza in the NYC. Many Ukrainians died of starvations in 1930-33. But the Polish anti-Soviet press never stressed this near cataclysm occvuring just behind its borders and Ukrainan press in America was abivalent about its extent. Morover the numbers ov victims cited on the banners in protests by Ukrainian in Munchen before Nuremberg trials cited figures magnitude smaller that soon after the Trial and the creation of the WW II 6,000,000 count. To outbid the Jews Ukrainians jumoped to 7,000,000. Presently to offset the Jews even more they claim 10,000,000. Looks like Ukes are fast learners from the eternal money changers. Propagandists counts should and must be discounted. If indeed 7-10M Ukes starved, where are their mass graves. Indeed many Ukrainian villages from the surface of the earth in early 1930's. But the questions remains to what degree it due to starvation or and deportations to the belt of virgin chernozem (Yes! there is such an "English" word in the Collegiate Webster's Dictionary) of "Zelena Ukraina" Green Triangle,(West of Valdivostok or both. Clearly, Soviets statistics can not be trusted. However looking in to phone book of Valdivostok and especially small towns West of Valdivostok would provide an agenda-less scholar with the answer. My suspicion is that 90% of inhabitants of these towns speak mostly Russian but all 90% have easily recognizible Ukrainian surnames. Same can not be applied to Jews Poland and former Poland's lands after the WW II because close to 98 % of them slavicized their Jewish names and surnames like the parents of our President. My "pro-Ukrainian" post of about an hour ago, surely will created a storm among martyrological Poles for denying the Volynian Holocaust. Now all Ukrainian martyrologically minded fascists will try to bash brains out of my revisonist skull. With revisionist greetings, Polina Borowska wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > Begin forwarded message: > > Subject: Famine March Update > > The famine march is now solidified. On November 20, 1999 there will > be a > procession to mourn and remember the 7 - 10 million Ukrainians that > perished > as a result of the famine of 1932-1933. The procession will assemble > at > 10:00am at St. George's (on 7th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.) and at All > Saints > Orthodox Church (on 11th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.). The procession > departs for > St. Patrick's Cathedral at 11:00 am. At about 1:00 p.m. there will > be a > mass and prayers at St. Patrick's (on 5th Ave.) > > It is my understanding that many from outside the NYC area will be > attending > this commemoration. Some cities have buses that will be transporting > people > to the event. You may want to inquire what the arrangements are in > your > area. > > Since this takes place on a Saturday, it would be a great idea for as > many > of the Ukes to join in on this. - Read on and pass it on... > > Please forward this to all who would (should) be interested. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 > Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. > Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:45 EDT 1999 Article: 192435 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: reply #2 [central-europe] Re: Re:a rambling post by Polina Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:37:15 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 58 Message-ID: <3818DE2B.B1590EF8@catskill.net> References: <19991027083606.69362.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192435 Klaudiusz Wesolek wrote: snip > > > On the other hand - democrats from Ukrainian diaspora would accept the worst > shit in Ukraine if it is under a formally democratic cover... I am disapointed in you Klaudiusz. Your martyrological hatred prompts you to descend to a gutter lanuguae. On the other hand it immidiately taints validity of your arguments and this is a windfall. > > And generally Polish, Ukrainian and other diasporas in postcommunist > countries are able only to different kind of "preaching". > The exception is Baltic countries. President of Lithuania is from diaspora, > in Latvia president or prime minister is from diaspora too. > In Estonia the first minister of defence was a retired American officer and > we may find many other examples... So those facts spoil Your theory that > diaspora is active only in the situation, when the country looses > independence. Your imprinted (since childhood) hatred blinds you to the obvious. Members of Ukrainian and Baltic diaspora are active because these countries just gained independence. Paderevski's interest in Poland did not end on November 11, 1918 when Poland gained independece, on the contrary. But after a few years his became less active also due to his age, you will say partially correctly. Young generation of Balts and Ukrainians is no longer that fanatical about their independent homelands. I can observe it in Ukrainian contemporaries of my three half-Ukrainian dauthers who were killed with their father in a car accident about a dozen of years ago. Same I see among the children of still active mature Balts and millions of Irishmen. But look at the activity of the miniscule Tibetan diaspora! > > Or maybe Your theory is true only for Poles? Only for Slavs? Or maybe Poles > in Poland didn't give the diaspora chance to help them?What do You think? > > cheers > > Klaudiusz > > ______________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Great books for the discriminating readers. From the > classics to the contemporaries choose any 3 books > for $1.99 each & get 1 FREE when you join Readers’ > Subscription books club http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1365 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:47 EDT 1999 Article: 192439 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!WCG!peernews!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,alt.revisonism,soc.culture.usa Subject: R. Nixon and recent Homosexual rape in Arkansas Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:01:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 426 Message-ID: <3818E3F1.7281D740@catskill.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192439 soc.culture.usa:424215 Good evening, Why should I write and post while others do it better: >Clinton's Call for "Tolerance" >by Dr. William Pierce > >Hello! > >I receive a number of letters from listeners who tell me, "Hey, I agree >with what you say about America's race problem, but I don't understand >why you're so hard on Jews. Certainly, the Jews who run the media are >bad, but the rest of them are just like us. Why do you talk about them >as if they're non-White?" > >Actually, I've answered that question a hundred times on my programs. >Let me answer it again today. As you undoubtedly are aware, Pat Buchanan >will be a candidate for President of the United States in next year's >election. The other candidates presumably will be George Bush, Jr, for >the Republicans; and either Al Gore or Bill Bradley for the Democrats. >At present Buchanan is a Republican, but he may end up running as the >candidate of a third party, since he is unlikely to beat Bush for the >Republican Party's nomination. > >I want to make it clear that I am not a Buchanan supporter. Buchanan is >the only candidate who comes even remotely close to being honest, to >being a man of principle, a man who means what he says and says what he >means. I have agreed with some of Buchanan's positions in the past, but >we also disagree on a number of fundamental issues, and I will not be >supporting him, partly because I cannot support the system under which >all the candidates will be running. > >What I think about Buchanan isn't really important here, though. It's >what the Jews think about Buchanan that we'll talk about today. As you >might suspect, Buchanan is not a favorite with the Jews. For one thing, >he's a conservative. For another thing, he's spoken out against several >of the Jews' favorite wars. And he doesn't take orders well. So we >shouldn't be surprised if they don't give him rave reviews in their >media, such as the New York Times or the Washington Post. And they >don't. But if you really want to know how the Jews feel about Buchanan, >you must read what they say about him among themselves. When the Jews >write in the New York Times or the Washington Post, they are writing for >Gentile consumption. But they have their strictly kosher publications, >which the Gentile public never sees. > >An example is New York's Jewish Press, which bills itself as the world's >largest-circulation English-language newspaper for Jews. Three weeks >ago, in the October 1 issue of the Jewish Press, a Jewish spokesman, >Professor Howard L. Adelson, had a column titled "Another Sewer Rat >Appears." Professor Adelson wrote, and I quote: "Out of the slime of the >sewers and into the filth of the gutter a desperate Patrick J. Buchanan, >the neo-Nazi, has crawled into the political arena using anti-Semitism >as his principal device to secure a future for himself." That's the >first sentence in Professor Adelson's column, and it's a bit awkward, so >I'll read it again for you, and you can savor it's Jewish flavor: "Out >of the slime of the sewers and into the filth of the gutter a desperate >Patrick J. Buchanan, the neo-Nazi, has crawled into the political arena >using anti-Semitism as his principal device to secure a future for >himself." > >Well that's just the beginning of a very long column by Professor >Adelson, and every sentence oozes a vicious, Talmudic hatred. He goes on >to say that Buchanan -- quote -- "always was a neo-Nazi," whose -- >quote -- "ignorance is astounding" and -- quote -- "reveals the shallow >quality of his tortured, sick, defective mind." Et cetera. In a separate >column in the Jewish Press Rabbi Rafael Grossman, the honorary president >of the Rabbinical Council of America, gives us his own outpouring of >Jewish hate against Buchanan. > >In another Jewish newspaper, the October 1 issue of the Forward, which >also is published in New York, Harvard Law School Professor Alan >Dershowitz writes, and I quote: "Let there be no mistake about it. Pat >Buchanan is a classic anti-Semite with fascist leanings who hates Israel >and loves Nazi war criminals." -- end quote -- And Dershowitz raves on >and on, concluding, and again I quote: "Let us begin to think about Pat >Buchanan realistically. He is a bigot who appeals to the worst of >America. That's why he will always be a loser." -- end of quote -- > >Actually, that last statement of Dershowitz's displays the same sort of >deception that characterizes Jewish statements intended primarily for >the Gentile public. If Dershowitz really believed that Buchanan always >will be a loser because he "appeals to the worst of America," then >Dershowitz and his fellow Jewish leaders wouldn't be knocking themselves >out to vilify the man. The real meaning of Dershowitz's statement is >that the Jews themselves must do everything needed to insure that >Buchanan becomes a loser and doesn't gain any influence over American >policy. > >Another Forward article, in the September 24 issue, reports on the >strategy the Jews are using to keep Buchanan from gaining any influence. >The article has a remarkably frank headline, namely, and I quote: >"Leadership Presses Bush in Bid to Block Buchanan from Republican >Ranks." The "leadership" referred to consists of the leaders of the >whole Jewish community, not just the media bosses: Jews such as Abe >Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith; >Matt Brooks, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition; and >Ira Forman, executive director of the National Jewish Democratic >Council. If you think it strange for the head of the Republican Jews to >be working out a plan with the head of the Democratic Jews to apply >pressure to the principal Gentile Republican candidate to shut another >Gentile Republican candidate out of the election, then you still have a >lot to learn about Jews. > >There are many other Jewish leaders and organizations involved in this >effort to stifle Buchanan. The Forward article lists, for example, >leaders of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the Conference >of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, the American >Jewish Committee, and so on. One of the most interesting recommendations >in the Forward article is that the Jews themselves should stay in the >background in their campaign against Buchanan and should use Gentile >"front" men as their tools against Buchanan: men such as Republican >candidate George Bush, Jr, New York real estate developer Donald Trump, >and Arizona Republican Senator John McCain. The idea is to keep the >public from understanding that the campaign against Buchanan is a Jewish >campaign, lest there be a public reaction against the Jews and in favor >of Buchanan. > >And by the way, both the Jewish Press and the Forward are accessible to >anyone who wants to check for himself the excerpts I have quoted. The >Jews try to keep them out of sight of the Gentiles, but they can be >gotten hold of through any big library. They both have web sites on the >Internet, although you won't find the most revealing articles posted >there. But you can obtain subscription information from their web sites >and subscribe to them and read everything in them if you really are >interested. > >Now, I'll say it again: I am not a Buchanan supporter. Buchanan and I >have quite different policies on a number of issues. Buchanan believes, >for example, that the United States should give Israel a permanent >commitment that we will use our weapons and armed forces to guarantee >Israel's military superiority over its neighbors. I am totally against >that. I am simply using this Jewish campaign against Buchanan as an >illustration of the way the Jews think and the way they work, so that >you will understand that Jews really are not like White people. They >have a psychology entirely different from ours. They are a race unto >themselves, a race with a totally subjective way at looking at the >world. Buchanan has never attacked Jews as such. He works with Jews; he >has Jewish associates. He simply refuses to let himself be used as their >puppet, the way virtually all the other politicians do. And because of >this the Jews are consumed with hatred against him and go all out to >keep him from gaining any public influence in America. The Jews simply >cannot tolerate an honest, independent Gentile leader. They are scared >to death of an honest man becoming President -- or even a dishonest man >who is independent, who will not take orders from them: a man they >cannot control. They understand that they have a tiger by the tail, and >if they lose their grip they are all goners. > >Here's another illustration: Back during the Nixon period, 25 years ago, >I was puzzled as to why the Jews hated Richard Nixon so much, why they >worked so hard to destroy him. It is true, of course, that Nixon didn't >like Jews. I mean, who does? But Nixon did have a Jew, Henry Kissinger, >running America's foreign policy. He had another Jew, Leonard Garment, >as his chief White House counsel. He had a Jew, William Safire, as his >chief speech writer. He put a Jew, Herb Stein, in as chairman of his >Council of Economic Advisers. He appointed a Jew, Arthur Burns, chairman >of the Federal Reserve. He gave Israel everything the Jews demanded. But >the Jews obviously hated his guts, the way they hate Buchanan today. >Back then I didn't understand why. > >Today I do understand. Richard Nixon, remember, gained his first >political prominence as a prosecutor of communist spies. And of course, >virtually all of those communist spies were Jews. The Jews as a whole, >not just those who were actively involved in communist espionage, never >forgave Nixon for that. That, coupled with Nixon's obvious dislike for >Jews, convinced them that he was a man who couldn't be trusted, a man >who might turn on them under the right circumstances. > >Another example: I was a physics graduate student at Caltech, in >Pasadena, back in 1955 and 1956, and I was totally non-political at that >time. I used to run around with a fellow physics student who was a Jew, >Leo Levitt. Leo and I didn't talk politics, because I wasn't interested >in politics, but the two of us were in a group of other students one day >when someone mentioned Senator Joseph McCarthy, who a couple of years >earlier had made headlines by investigating communist subversion in the >government and in the U.S. Army. > >Leo's whole demeanor changed when he heard McCarthy's name. He was >practically foaming at the mouth as he expressed his hatred of Joseph >McCarthy in the vilest language imaginable. Killing was too good for >McCarthy, Leo said. He should be tortured to death in fiendish ways, >which Leo described in detail. Leo's expression of hatred was so >vehement that it has stuck in my mind for nearly 45 years. Leo wasn't a >practicing communist himself and had never been involved in politics. He >was simply expressing a racial hatred that virtually all the Jews, of >every political persuasion, seemed to have against McCarthy, because >they regarded him as a threat to the Jews as a whole, a threat to the >Jewish race. > >And the fact of the matter was that McCarthy never targeted Jews, as >such, in his investigations and never made public statements against >Jews. Like Nixon, he surrounded himself with Jewish aides, most notably >Roy Cohn and David Shine. Cohn and Shine had a homosexual affair, and >Cohn's efforts to keep Shine from being drafted by the Army and sent to >Korea made a laughingstock of McCarthy's committee. The Jews hated >McCarthy because they were unable to control him and because his efforts >were exposing Jewish subversion and the extent of Jewish involvement in >communism, even though inadvertently. > >They hated Richard Nixon because Nixon also had exposed Jewish >subversion and the extent of Jewish involvement in communism, although >inadvertently. In addition Nixon did really dislike and distrust Jews >and often expressed himself on this subject to subordinates in the White >House. There's a lot of whining going on now as White House tapes with >some of Nixon's comments about Jews are being made public. This week's >issue of Newsweek magazine, for example, whines about Nixon's taped >comment that -- quote -- "most Jews are disloyal. . . . You can't trust >the bastards." -- end of quote -- The excerpts from the Nixon tapes in >this week's Newsweek also gave an example of why Nixon didn't trust >Jews. Referring to his work as a Congressional investigator of communist >infiltration of the U.S. government, Nixon said, and I quote: "The only >two non-Jews in the communist conspiracy were Chambers and Hiss. . . . >The only two non-Jews. Every other one was a Jew." -- end of quote -- > >Both McCarthy and Nixon, by investigating and exposing communists, had >frightened and angered Jews collectively. They tried to stay on the good >side of the Jews by appointing Jews to important posts -- hiring lots of >Cohns and Kissingers -- but the Jews still considered the two men a >danger, just as they consider Pat Buchanan a danger today, even though >Buchanan is willing to give to Israel guarantees which should not be >given. > >And again, when I say that the Jews hate Pat Buchanan, just like they >hated Joseph McCarthy and Richard Nixon, I'm not talking about just >Jewish communists or the Jewish media bosses: I'm talking about the Jews >as a whole, the Jews as a race. And I know that there are individual >exceptions. McCarthy had his Roy Cohn and David Shine. Nixon had his >Henry Kissinger and Leonard Garment and Arthur Burns and the rest. And >Buchanan has his court Jews also. But don't be fooled by that. The Jews >hate Pat Buchanan collectively and subjectively, with the sort of >vicious, irrational hatred that is peculiar to Jews and not even >conceivable to us. They are different, and it is correct and necessary >to think of them as a whole, despite individual exceptions. > >While we're on this subject, let's explore it a little further. As I >mentioned earlier, nobody really likes Jews, and that includes >politicians who surround themselves with court Jews for protection. But >the Jews tolerate and support some of these Gentile politicians, while >they undermine and attack others. What accounts for the difference in >the way they responded to Richard Nixon, say, and the way they respond >to Bill Clinton? > >The answer, in brief, to this question, is that Nixon, despite the >strenuous efforts he made to please the Jews, despite his willingness to >do nearly everything they demanded of him, still held back a bit from >being the totally willing tool they wanted. Every time they made new >demands on Nixon, they sensed his hatred. Bill Clinton, on the other >hand, has no reservations whatsoever about serving the Jews. I'll give >you an example. > >Last week I told you about the kidnap, rape, and murder of 13-year-old >Jesse Dirkhising by two adult homosexuals in Rogers, Arkansas, on >September 26. I told you that the news of this horrible crime had been >deliberately blacked out of the national news media by the Jewish media >bosses, but I provided information to help listeners find the news on >the Internet by going to the web site of the Northwest Arkansas Morning >News, which did report the crime. Some listeners reported back to me >that they still hadn't been able to find the news on the Internet, so >I'll add now that the crime also has been reported fairly extensively in >the Benton County Daily Record and in the Rogers Hometown News. Some of >the nastier and more lurid details of the crime are mentioned in these >two local newspapers. For example, one of the homosexuals, Davis Don >Carpenter, a 38-year-old hairstylist who brags that he has lived in 26 >states and has boy friends in all 50 states, showed his homosexual >partner, 22-year-old Joshua Macave Brown, the proper way to tie up and >position a child for raping, even providing diagrams showing the proper >procedure and naming the best drug to use for sedating the child during >the rape. > >Well, probably the technique worked well enough for earlier child-raping >episodes, but something went wrong when they raped little Jesse >Dirkhising. When they noticed that the boy had stopped breathing and was >turning blue they called 911. Police were met by a stark naked Joshua >Brown in the hallway, who explained that they -- quote -- "were just >playing a game" with the dead child. > >One other detail in connection with this crime: on October 2, just six >days after Jesse Dirkhising was raped to death, President Bill Clinton >was exchanging hugs and kisses with one of the larger groups of his >homosexual supporters. He was the speaker at a Democratic fundraiser in >Los Angeles hosted by a group called Action Now for Gay and Lesbian >Equality. The perverts donated $850,000 to the Democratic Party at the >dinner. The theme of Clinton's talk to the group was that Americans need >to become more tolerant of homosexuals and their life-style. > >More tolerant. Really. You know, there was a court hearing for Carpenter >and Brown on September 28, in Bentonville, the county seat. The local >people were pretty unhappy, and so the two homosexuals were protected by >bulletproof vests and under heavy guard. Even so, a local reporter in >the courtroom could hear a woman outside yelling that the homosexuals >would "burn in hell." If Janet Reno had been there she would have had >the FBI arrest that woman for intolerance, and Clinton could have >collected another couple of hundred thousand dollars from the homosexual >lobby. > >It's not just that Clinton chose to visit his homosexual supporters in >Los Angeles and to ignore the murder of little Jesse Dirkhising in his >home state. The government and the controlled media of this country, by >encouraging homosexuals, by trying to make us all believe that >homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else, that they >should be allowed to be teachers and Boy Scout leaders, and that we all >should be nice to them and let them do what they want and not be >suspicious of them or shun them, created the atmosphere in which the >murder of Jesse Dirkhising became possible. The two rapists were >emboldened by all of the propaganda calling for more tolerance for >homosexuals; by all of the media hullabaloo to win sympathy for Matthew >Shepard, the homosexual who was killed last year when he tried to pick >up a "date" in a bar in Laramie, Wyoming. This pro-homosexual propaganda >by Clinton and the media not only encouraged homosexuals to come out of >the closet and flaunt their perversion in public, it led some of them to >push harder than before against the heterosexual society around them, to >take chances they would not have taken before. > >Did I make myself clear? I'm blaming the rape and murder of 13-year-old >Jesse Dirkising on the Jewish media and on the government which dances >to the media's tune. They encouraged Davis Don Carpenter and Joshua >Macave Brown to take a chance they would not have taken in a more >traditional moral environment. > >I'm also saying that Bill Clinton, by ignoring the homosexual rape and >murder of Jesse Dirkhising and, just six days after that horrible crime, >running off to tell his homosexual supporters in Los Angeles that we all >need to be more tolerant of homosexuals and their behavior, proved once >again to the Jews that he is the sort of man they can trust, the sort of >man utterly without honor or scruple or principle they want as our >President. >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >The text above is based on a broadcast of the American Dissident >Voices radio program sponsored by National Vanguard Books. >It is distributed by e-mail each Saturday to subscribers of ADVlist. From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:47 EDT 1999 Article: 192450 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist?? [central-europe] Fwd: [SASIEDZI] Famine March Update Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:48:45 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 92 Message-ID: <3818EEED.BB2F3757@catskill.net> References: <7v9dng$t8am@eGroups.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192450 soc.culture.ukrainian:59872 alt.revisionism:690334 Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday's posting, Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine. I have been labeled as Ukrainian asshole trying ineffectively to pass as a Pole. Still certified Pole Klaudiusz advocates Ukrainian martyrological rituals while I clandestine Ukrainian recommend ignoring this holocaustian extrqavaganza in the NYC. Many Ukrainians died of starvations in 1930-33. But the Polish anti-Soviet press never stressed this near cataclysm occvuring just behind its borders and Ukrainan press in America was abivalent about its extent. Morover the numbers ov victims cited on the banners in protests by Ukrainian in Munchen before Nuremberg trials cited figures magnitude smaller that soon after the Trial and the creation of the WW II 6,000,000 count. To outbid the Jews Ukrainians jumoped to 7,000,000. Presently to offset the Jews even more they claim 10,000,000. Looks like Ukes are fast learners from the eternal money changers. Propagandists counts should and must be discounted. If indeed 7-10M Ukes starved, where are their mass graves. Indeed many Ukrainian villages from the surface of the earth in early 1930's. But the questions remains to what degree it due to starvation or and deportations to the belt of virgin chernozem (Yes! there is such an "English" word in the Collegiate Webster's Dictionary) of "Zelena Ukraina" Green Triangle,(West of Valdivostok or both. Clearly, Soviets statistics can not be trusted. However looking in to phone book of Valdivostok and especially small towns West of Valdivostok would provide an agenda-less scholar with the answer. My suspicion is that 90% of inhabitants of these towns speak mostly Russian but all 90% have easily recognizible Ukrainian surnames. Same can not be applied to Jews Poland and former Poland's lands after the WW II because close to 98 % of them slavicized their Jewish names and surnames like the parents of our President. My "pro-Ukrainian" post of about an hour ago, surely will created a storm among martyrological Poles for denying the Volynian Holocaust. Now all Ukrainian martyrologically minded fascists will try to bash brains out of my skull. With revisionist greetings, Polina Borowska wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > Begin forwarded message: > > Subject: Famine March Update > > The famine march is now solidified. On November 20, 1999 there will > be a > procession to mourn and remember the 7 - 10 million Ukrainians that > perished > as a result of the famine of 1932-1933. The procession will assemble > at > 10:00am at St. George's (on 7th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.) and at All > Saints > Orthodox Church (on 11th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.). The procession > departs for > St. Patrick's Cathedral at 11:00 am. At about 1:00 p.m. there will > be a > mass and prayers at St. Patrick's (on 5th Ave.) > > It is my understanding that many from outside the NYC area will be > attending > this commemoration. Some cities have buses that will be transporting > people > to the event. You may want to inquire what the arrangements are in > your > area. > > Since this takes place on a Saturday, it would be a great idea for as > many > of the Ukes to join in on this. - Read on and pass it on... > > Please forward this to all who would (should) be interested. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 > Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. > Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Thu Oct 28 21:45:47 EDT 1999 Article: 192455 of soc.culture.polish Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!WCG!WCG2!12.127.16.134!attmtf!ip.att.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.ukrainian,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Klaudiusz, an Ukrainian Fascist or Faminist?? [central-europe] Fwd: [SASIEDZI] Famine March Update Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:49:49 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 92 Message-ID: <3818EF2C.E7EDD2CE@catskill.net> References: <7v9dng$t8am@eGroups.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org soc.culture.polish:192455 soc.culture.ukrainian:59873 alt.revisionism:690335 Moderator, and anti-Ukrainianite as seen from his yeasterday's posting, Klaudiusz Wesolek from Warsaw implicitly recommends attendance at the memorial services for the 7-10M victims of the Great Ukrainian Famine. I have been labeled as Ukrainian asshole trying ineffectively to pass as a Pole. Still certified Pole Klaudiusz advocates Ukrainian martyrological rituals while I clandestine Ukrainian recommend ignoring this holocaustian extrqavaganza in the NYC. Many Ukrainians died of starvations in 1930-33. But the Polish anti-Soviet press never stressed this near cataclysm occvuring just behind its borders and Ukrainan press in America was abivalent about its extent. Morover the numbers ov victims cited on the banners in protests by Ukrainian in Munchen before Nuremberg trials cited figures magnitude smaller that soon after the Trial and the creation of the WW II 6,000,000 count. To outbid the Jews Ukrainians jumoped to 7,000,000. Presently to offset the Jews even more they claim 10,000,000. Looks like Ukes are fast learners from the eternal money changers. Propagandists counts should and must be discounted. If indeed 7-10M Ukes starved, where are their mass graves. Indeed many Ukrainian villages from the surface of the earth in early 1930's. But the questions remains to what degree it due to starvation or and deportations to the belt of virgin chernozem (Yes! there is such an "English" word in the Collegiate Webster's Dictionary) of "Zelena Ukraina" Green Triangle,(West of Valdivostok or both. Clearly, Soviets statistics can not be trusted. However looking in to phone book of Valdivostok and especially small towns West of Valdivostok would provide an agenda-less scholar with the answer. My suspicion is that 90% of inhabitants of these towns speak mostly Russian but all 90% have easily recognizible Ukrainian surnames. Same can not be applied to Jews Poland and former Poland's lands after the WW II because close to 98 % of them slavicized their Jewish names and surnames like the parents of our President. My "pro-Ukrainian" post of about an hour ago, surely will created a storm among martyrological Poles for denying the Volynian Holocaust. Now all Ukrainian martyrologically minded fascists will try to bash brains out of my revisonist skull. With revisionist greetings, Polina Borowska wesolek@hotmail.com wrote: > > Begin forwarded message: > > Subject: Famine March Update > > The famine march is now solidified. On November 20, 1999 there will > be a > procession to mourn and remember the 7 - 10 million Ukrainians that > perished > as a result of the famine of 1932-1933. The procession will assemble > at > 10:00am at St. George's (on 7th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.) and at All > Saints > Orthodox Church (on 11th btw 2nd and 3rd Ave.). The procession > departs for > St. Patrick's Cathedral at 11:00 am. At about 1:00 p.m. there will > be a > mass and prayers at St. Patrick's (on 5th Ave.) > > It is my understanding that many from outside the NYC area will be > attending > this commemoration. Some cities have buses that will be transporting > people > to the event. You may want to inquire what the arrangements are in > your > area. > > Since this takes place on a Saturday, it would be a great idea for as > many > of the Ukes to join in on this. - Read on and pass it on... > > Please forward this to all who would (should) be interested. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2 > Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French. > Learn2 Negotiate a Raise. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965 > > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/central-europe > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From polinhis@catskill.net Fri Oct 29 15:20:40 EDT 1999 Article: 690362 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish Subject: Re: Yale, sell copy of video of Eichmann!, Hoess & Eichmann and murdered Jews Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:09:44 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <381901E8.4DCED0F8@catskill.net> References: <7uoaj8$26k3$1@hub.org> <38132CE8.14BA1E2@catskill.net> <01bf1e51$a2d1b5a0$579b10cf@default> <38138DCD.8530FA11@catskill.net> <7v03bu$n5k$2@hub.org> <3813CACE.7DC9D5F1@catskill.net> <01bf1e9f$5617d8e0$2a9910cf@default> <3814A51A.DEE20C45@catskill.net> <2awVOILGjhFuJh2I+EUqBMnbMTxA@4ax.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pl,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:690362 soc.culture.polish:192471 Gord McFee wrote: > In <3814A51A.DEE20C45@catskill.net>, on Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:44:43 -0400, > polin wrote: > > > Dear Yale, > > > > How much you would charge for the copy of the 1980s video of Eichmann in which we > > could see him intermittently and or in spurts continuously pumping his cheek with his > > tongue, the pathogmonic sign of Tardive Dyskinesia ergo side effect of Thorazine/ > > It is also a sign of being very nervous. You wwould like to be so, but your local psychiatrist will tell you it is not so. Tardive Dyskinesia is due to Thorazine and thorazine like psychotropic drugs ONLY not nervousness. This is you know and do not want to sell me the copy of the videotape or let me know where it could be bought Polina > > > [deleted] > > -- > Gord McFee > I'll write no line before its time From polinhis@catskill.net Fri Oct 29 15:20:41 EDT 1999 Article: 690366 of alt.revisionism Path: hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: polin Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.russian Subject: Re: compulsive-obsessive Polina ??Justice Jackson lied at Nuremberg?? lied Human fat soap was brought by Soviets to Nueremberg >>>Who cares about Nuremberg Tribunal >>>Suppression of Christian churches by Nazis Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:16:47 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 135 Message-ID: <3819038F.49AEB3E6@catskill.net> References: <7urtj6$c5s$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <38138A71.ACA68EE6@catskill.net> <3814A9B8.26A26D8F@catskill.net> <7v29nd$1314$1@hub.org> <38163999.9E972BDB@catskill.net>