The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/tutu101.1296


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 14:10:30 PST 1996
Article: 86022 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:08:11 GMT
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Why must you always play the fool.  I dare say my grasp of the German
language is far better than yours--who understands zilch...and don't worry
about the ellipses-they weren't significant.  Oh?  You prefer to judge for
yourself?  well, buy the book then.  Maybe you will learn something.  The
text clearly shows, whether in german or English or esperanto-that it was
the French who were guilty of first utilizing gas during the first world
war.  you lose again. but what else is new?


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 14:10:30 PST 1996
Article: 86024 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:40:44 GMT
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You ought to hide but you have no shame.


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 14:10:31 PST 1996
Article: 86025 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  Heinrich Lohse Was Dead and Living in Germany?
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:42:49 GMT
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This was already answered.  Lohse did die in Germany.
My comments referred to Kube.


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 14:10:32 PST 1996
Article: 86028 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Good Old Days,1.
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:12:28 GMT
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tutu101@aol.com wrote:
: I did not get the same impression as you when reading the contents of
the
: General's comments.  


"Getting an impression" is a far cry from understanding.
That, of course, explains why your
impression is so different from the previous
contributor's understanding.

d.A.

Oh!  Excuse me!  I see..........You "understand"......


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 14:10:33 PST 1996
Article: 86029 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Is 'rblackmore' Up To? (Re: Blackmore lies again  (Was
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:29:52 GMT
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From: infoix@infoix.com (www.infoix.com)
Newsgroups:
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female,alt.sex
.pictures,alt.sex.pictures.female
Subject: 1000's more!  WWW.INFOIX.COM  INSTANT ACCESS  fucking in  a
truck. - truckfuk.jpg (1/1)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 17:07:37 GMT
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.com!ns.ecoa.net!websitter.com

Give yourself a hand, Chuck.  you owe it to yourself.


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 14:10:34 PST 1996
Article: 86030 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  'Revisionist' Idiots (Re: Heinrich Lohse Was Dead and Living
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:44:12 GMT
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Yeh, maybe I can use the name Keren?


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 17:24:48 PST 1996
Article: 86042 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:32:51 GMT
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From: "Siacom" 
Newsgroups:
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.breasts.small,
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornstar,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornst
ars,alt.binaries.pictures.sex,alt.sex.pictures
Subject: From the Siacom Archives -m/f- siac0263.jpg
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Chuck-You're being too hard on yourself.


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 17:24:49 PST 1996
Article: 86046 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
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From: infoix@infoix.com (www.infoix.com)
Newsgroups:
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.pictures,alt.sex.pictures.female,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.breasts
Subject: 1000's more! WWW.INFOIX.COM  INSTANT ACCESS   nice asian pussy
and tit - yc_tomi6.jpg (0/1)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 17:06:46 GMT
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ory.edu!metro.atlanta.com!cpk-news-feed3.bbnplanet.com!ns.ecoa.net!websitte
r.com

thousands of un encoded images right from your web browser!
ISNTANT ACCESS  http://www.infoix.com

Chuck--do everyone a favor and stop spamming us with your bedtime prayer
books.  A man your age should have his mind set on other things in
life---not on "Mission Impossible".


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 22:06:38 PST 1996
Article: 86056 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:54:04 GMT
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 14 Dec 1996 01:51:50 GMT
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>   Doc Tavish <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> writes:

>  Well done Ian. I want to know why Talmuds aren't readily available for
>  all to read. I can get a Bible at Wal-Mart, a Koran at a book store,
the
>  Hare Krishnas will provide you with anything you want when you
encounter
>  them, Jehovah's Witnesses will knock at your door and very willing to
>  supply you with all of their publications but why such a dearth when it
>  comes to the Talmud? 

	Have you checked your local bookstore?

	Locally the following chains carry (or will order) the Talmud:

	Border's (both the Seinsaltz and Soncino translations)

	Barnes & Noble (Soncino tranlation)

	Encore (Seinsaltz tranlation)

	On the other hand, not a single local supermarket or drugstore has
a 
copy.

	--YFE

Who could bear reading those 30 volumes of folklore and
archaic laws?  Borrrrrring


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 22:06:39 PST 1996
Article: 86058 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:40:34 GMT
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,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornst
ar,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornstars,alt.sex.pictures.female
Subject: From the Siacom Archives -f- sian0500.jpg
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For all and sundry--this is the work of those two holocaust
scholars--Chuck Feree and Michael Stein......What I want to know is who
plays the man and who plays the woman---or is it on a first come first
serve basis?


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 22:06:39 PST 1996
Article: 86061 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  What Is 'rblackmore' Up To? (Re: Blackmore lies again  (Was
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:51:19 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Maybe you'll just tell us what you were up to when you posted
to these newsgroups? Planning to open a new branch of the
Hitler Youth... or something even worse?


-Danny Keren.

A Danny Keren fan club?


From tutu101@aol.com Mon Dec 16 23:02:12 PST 1996
Article: 86073 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:48:29 GMT
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l
From: gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 3 Dec 1996 04:00:10 GMT
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In message <57t9ar$2ju@lendl.cc.emory.edu> - libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson)2 Dec 1996 00:53:47 GMT writes:
:>
:>Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) wrote:
:>: In message <57nonm$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com
writes:
:>
:>: :> "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
:>: :>national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
:>: :>thus giving room for our own people." 
:>: :>
:>: :>(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)
:>: 
:>: Readers will once again notice that Mr. Blackmore, rather than pursue
the
:>: debate he started, realizes he has been shown the fool--again--and has
to
:>: resort to posting sayings from non-existent Rabbis.
:>
:>We now have two quotes from "Rabbi Reichorn," saying almost exactly
:>the same thing twenty-one years apart.  Windy son-of-a-bitch, wasn't
:>he?

Particularly for a guy who never existed.



--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time

For the record, I never claimed that he existed either. I don't know.


From tutu101@aol.com Tue Dec 17 06:58:45 PST 1996
Article: 86114 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:11:12 GMT
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tutu101@aol.com wrote:
: You have only quoted one case, Mr. Keren.  One carrot in boiling water
: does not make a stew.


In Dachau it did.

d.A.

But it was a BIG carrot!


From tutu101@aol.com Tue Dec 17 15:46:43 PST 1996
Article: 86283 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  rblackmore
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:22:30 GMT
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From: Chuck Ferree 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: rblackmore
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 16:49:49 +0000
Organization: Northwest Internet Services, Inc.
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>From  Chuck Ferree        


Article 24 of 157

Subject:      rblackmore's confused identity
From:         karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power)
Date:         1996/11/30
Message-Id:   
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism


The sexually ambiguous entity hiding under the name 
rblackmore@juno.com, in <577k15$ln0@juliana.sprynet.com>,
wrote:

>Will you decide on a name for me already?  Will it be Belling, Blackmore,
or
 Bellinger?
>Or shall we add another?  Shall I be a male, a female, a boy, a girl? 
Which
 shall
>you choose this week?

If you weren't a typical Nazi-wannabe yellow-bellied sack of 
shit, you would, of course, be able to clear this up by yourself.
But then you might be embarrassed explaining why you were 
soliciting correspondence in the guise of a teenage girl.



                

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From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 18 08:18:25 PST 1996
Article: 86408 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:28:20 GMT
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From: infoix@infoix.com (www.infoix.com)
Newsgroups:
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female,alt.sex
.pictures,alt.sex.pictures.female
Subject: 1000's more!  WWW.INFOIX.COM  INSTANT ACCESS  fucking in  a
truck. - truckfuk.jpg (0/1)
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 17:07:36 GMT
Organization: www.infoix.com
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anet.com!ns.ecoa.net!websitter.com

thousands of unencoded images right from your web browser!
INSTANT ACCESS http://www.infoix.com


I'm curious, Chuck---do you practice what you preach?


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 05:53:48 PST 1996
Article: 86619 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 18 Dec 1996 21:41:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 11
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To M. Stein:  You are, of course, correct when you write that these events
occurred in 1937.  However, Koch was charged and executed in the forties,
as well as another commandaer, I believe.  Hoess was under investigation
by SS authorities as well, and a deposition was taken by one Eleanor
Hodyss, a mistress of the ex-commandant.  This deposition was to be used
as evidence against him by the SS judicial authorities.  The investigation
had the full backing of Himmler.  Grabner was also arrested by the SS and
charged with crimes, as was Goeth.  However, due to the late period in
time when their crimes came to light, they were later re-arrested and
executed by the Poles.  I am confident that I shall uncover many more such
cases as I continue to do research.


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 05:53:49 PST 1996
Article: 86635 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 18 Dec 1996 21:19:30 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 4
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Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
lamb,


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 05:53:50 PST 1996
Article: 86700 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg "cite"
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:59:05 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Mark with his "clever" little name-calling again.
People stopped taking you seriously the day 
after you were born.


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 07:46:41 PST 1996
Article: 86732 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days,2.  Who killed the cop?
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:18:03 GMT
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From: somewhere@sometime.soon (Real soon!)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days,2.  Who killed the cop?
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 1996 20:39:01 GMT
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On Sun, 01 Dec 1996 17:29:27 GMT, mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
wrote:

>rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>
>I see now that Blackmore has chosen to pick Blackmore's way through
>another book. I'm glad Blackmore is reading, but I am saddened by how
>Blackmore reports what he has read.
>
>>Here is something from chapter two entitled:  "Bloody
>>Wednesday in Olkusz/Ilkenau".
>>
>
>This was the name of the town. What Blackmore doesn't tell us is that
>7,000 Poles and 6,000 Jews lived there. The town of Olkusz was called
>llkenau by the occupation forces. 
>
>>The excerpt begins by inform us that a capital crime had
>>occurred on 16 July 1940.  A German policeman named
>>Ernest Kaddatz was bushwhacked and murdered by assailants
>>unknown.
>
>No, it says that he was "shot by an unknown assailant. There is
>nothing about bushwacked and the word "murdered" is not used.
>The next line is states that 20 Jews were publically executed as
>reprisal. What if the gendarme was shot by a Polish human being?

	What if in fact, jews as organized communists were not organizing
the resistance movement?  In violation of internatioal law at the
time, I would add.  

And what if acorns were marshmallows?


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 07:46:43 PST 1996
Article: 86736 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz death march survivor's story
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:35:25 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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et!news-master!news
From: "Siacom" 
Newsgroups:
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ars,alt.binaries.pictures.sex,alt.sex.pictures
Subject: From the Siacom Archives -m/f- siac0265.jpg
Date: 8 Dec 1996 00:01:48 GMT
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Chuck--how long have you been estranged from your wife>?
Is this the reason?


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 20:50:20 PST 1996
Article: 86875 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore's confused identity
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:31:19 GMT
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From: "Siacom" 
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Subject: From the Siacom Archives -m/f/f- siag0036.jpg
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Chuck-are you finding it hard to keep up with the Joneses?


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 20:50:21 PST 1996
Article: 86881 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Two Documents that the "Revisionists" Won't Explain
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:55:50 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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From: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Two Documents that the "Revisionists" Won't Explain
Date: 13 Dec 1996 15:17:25 GMT
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>   tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) writes:
>  Concerning Lohse:  Where did this document originate, if I may ask? 
(Not
>  from Lohse, as some smart alecks here might reply).  But how, when,
where,
>  and by whom was it discovered and submitted as evidence.  Lohse, by the
>  way, was murdered by an assassin in 1943 in Russia.
>  
>>>>
	It was taken from the archives of the Reich Ministry (as indicated
by the 
exhibit number).  It was submitted by the prosecution at Nuremberg.

	Since you were given the source, start doing your own research.

	--YFE

Sorry, but you simply cannot be believed.


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 20:50:22 PST 1996
Article: 86882 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:39:59 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 1
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It is obvious you blew it.


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 19 20:50:22 PST 1996
Article: 86885 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Good Old Days,1.
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:50:39 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 7
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Established fact?  The only facts which are being established is that
those mythical tales you refer to as facts are myths.  Now, since you
adhere to these tales, it is up to you to provide proof of their
authenticity.  the World War Two mind frame is passing away.  This is now
the age of demanding proof for all those nasty accusations....BTW, do you
deny that Jews confessed to poisoning the wells of Europe?  That was also
established fact at the time.  


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 20 07:02:48 PST 1996
Article: 86962 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days-Pogrom at Kaunas
Date: 16 Dec 1996 13:16:06 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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ath:
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planet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!165.87.194.248!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!news-s01.
ca.us.ibm.net!not-for-mail
From: gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days-Pogrom at Kaunas
Date: 8 Dec 1996 03:05:21 GMT
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References: <32a68dbb.22013216@news.uniserve.com>
<19961206105100.FAA18719@ladder01.news.aol.com><32a68dbb.22013216@news.uni
serve.com> <19961206105100.FAA18719@ladder01.news.aol.com>

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In message  - dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel
Keren)Fri, 6 Dec 1996 23:36:03 GMT writes:
:>
:>tutu101@aol.com writes:
:>
:># I find it curious that the more effective a person's post
:># is, the more they are insulted.
:>
:>You are a very nice person and we all love you.
:>
:> :-)

Dammit Dr. Keren.  You beat me!


--
Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time

Golly!  I never would have imagined that you and Keren were
into S & M.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:02 PST 1996
Article: 88204 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wetzel Write Lohse About the 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Date: 24 Dec 1996 20:57:39 GMT
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With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.

One report has it that a Hebrew letter found in Parthenay in 1321 and
translated by a converted Jew was said to reveal a huge plot of the Jews,
the lepers, and the Saracens of Spain to destroy the whole Christian
population of Europe by poisoning the wells.:  The Devil and the Jews,
Trachtenberg pg. 101.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:03 PST 1996
Article: 88257 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row'
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:15:36 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 25
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References: 
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tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) writes:

My dear "tutu101", or "rblackmore", or whatever
the hell you call yourself: can you learn to
attribute posted text?

You have quoted my article without any ">" etc
before it, and immediately after that, you
posted something. There is no way to tell where
my text ends and where your begins.

This has been pointed out to you a few times
already. Why is it so difficult for you to
understand it, and correctly attribute text?

Posted/e-mailed.


-Danny Keren.



I will try and do that in the future.  problem is, my server will often
NOT post the material if I leave them in.  If necessary, I will write
"Comment" first, and then my initials after the post.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:04 PST 1996
Article: 88405 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 12:00:22 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 25
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I didn't bother to download your crucified valkyrie, but you might
note that testimony *is* evidence, in fact direct evidence when it 
is from those who witnessed the misdeed in question. You have
provided no reason for anyone to believe that the testimony is
false. Your capacity for judgment is shown by your record on John
Sack's AN EYE FOR AN EYE, which you first insisted was 100% true,
then, when confronted with an actual excerpt, whined that it consisted
of one lie after another.

Yes, all right, have it your way this time.  Now, I will tell you that by
your own logic you must admit that those who testified that they witnessed
Jews commit ritual murder were also giving credible testimony, as many
courts accepted it and convicted the Jews as charged.  As for Sack, I will
repeat again  forthe benefit of the browser that what Isaid was that the
liars were the murderers he interviewed.  Sack faithfully recorded their
lies.  See, here is a major tactic used by many Nizkooks:  They twist what
a person says around in the hopes that they will be able to delude even
one browser from knowing the actual facts.  Too amny peole are wise to
this tactic by now, and news spreads fast.  You are perfectly aware of my
comments regarding Sack's book yet you sneakily and dishonestly seek to
distort them...well it does you no good.  People are wise to the scam. 
People will remember how you treacherously attempted to trick me with your
phony Auschwitz survivor story.  If you talk like a fool, act like a
fool...you must BE a fool.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:05 PST 1996
Article: 88407 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:52:48 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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To call the Bitch of Belsen 'the very essence of Teutonic beauty'
is an insult to all German women. 


--Stop exaggerating.  She was a very attractive young lady.  You wouldn't
like it if people began calling Anne Frank an ugly duckling.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:05 PST 1996
Article: 88436 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 12:30:19 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Michael--doyou haveany proofthat Ms. Grese beat anyone to death?


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:06 PST 1996
Article: 88437 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:36:26 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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There are few proteins than can survive such treatment,
and no known cells that can. Even proteins that do survive
it are often damaged.

Brian Harmon  
------
Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive
physical evidence into a coherent and unified history. 



Brian--you could not be more wrong.  You forget one little thing--those
people were already seriously ill with life threatening diseases.  They
were basically like AIDS patients.  ANY little organism which might just
make a healthy person with a strong immune system ill for a day or two
would have KILLED them.. Perhaps that is why the inmates continued to die
by the thousands after the British took over the camp--they made them
drink the WATER.......without treating it!!!!


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:07 PST 1996
Article: 88438 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:10:58 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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So, what about these mythical filters, mr. Blackmore?

Brian Harmon  
------

There are different ways to filter water.  Try this:  From "The Book of
Survival":

"Treat all water as if polluted.  Crystal-clear water could be
contaminated.  Tap water polluted.  Mountain stream running from a high
village or over a dead sheep.  Risks of cholera, typhoid, dysentery, or
schistosomiasis too great...You talk as if that German river was
Evian.....


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:07 PST 1996
Article: 88439 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 10:54:18 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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The Brits have immediately established running water in the camp,
using only equipment they found there. The SS could have done
this, had they cared about the inmates.


-Danny Keren.

No, Dan,the British did not immediately estabish running water.  


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:08 PST 1996
Article: 88454 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:30:04 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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	I will wager that you never read a book on emergency health 
measures.  *All* bacteria can be killed by boiling water.

	Now you are giwering us with fake "science."

	--YFE

Yale. you are going to bite the big one with that remark...all bacteria 
can NOT be killed by boiling.  I have posted a reference for this in the
past, but here is a new one for you...Don't claim a month from now that
you never saw it.  I will also email it to you.  From:  The Book of
Survival--Anthony Greenbank:

Water Purifying

Treat all water as if polluted.  Crystal-clear water could be
contaminated.  Tap water polluted.  Mountain stream running from a high
village or over a dead sheep.
Risks of cholera, thyphoid, dysentery, or schistosomiasis too
great....Various methods to purify water....So...to purify:

Strain all water through a cloth or folded hankerchief to suspend grit,
gravel, dust, sand,...

Boil hard for at least a minute  (longer preferably)

Add five drops of iodineto 2 pints of water or 10 drops to sterilize
cloudy water

Let stand for thirty minutes.  Sterilize mouth of container with drop of
water and wait a little bit longer.

Pinch of salt can improve taste...

Water purifying tablets...

Now, do you still insist those folks, already serious weakened by
disease...typhus and dysentery....drank to their heart's content from the
river without anything being done to filter and purify it?


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:09 PST 1996
Article: 88476 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 12:16:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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And she listed others under S.B. (Sonder Behandlung) which everyone
knew, including herself that this meant gassing. she took her little
pen and entered this fact in her book. She admitted this. This makes
one wonder why Blackmore is being so obtuse.

I don't know how many time this needs to be said but she had no proof that
there were any gas chambers.

2,  You still have not proved that there were gas chambers.\

3.  Neither she nor anyone else was allowed to select people for the gas
chambers.  that was supposedly done exclusively by doctors.  Thus when you
accuse her of participating in murder, you are lying.  Now, will you admit
that this young lady should never have been hanged on the basis of such
flimsy evidence?


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:10 PST 1996
Article: 88477 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 12:22:31 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 50
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Fact is that the doctors controled the selections and possibly made
the final decisions. Maybe. Some doctors were more comfortable than
others with the selection process which suggests that Blackmore read
Lifton's book. Others testified that she would actually take part in
the selections so it comes down to who the judges believed. Since they
do not explain it, one can't tell. Then there are the beatings that
possibly killed people. the throwing people into harms way and other
such charges against Grese. 


It was never charged that she beat anyone to death, was it?  And of so,
whom?
Where is a name?--rb

>  Something is very wrong
>with this part of the testimony.  And if the gas chambers were indeed
based upon
>rumor, then she was not guilty anyway.

Based on rumor? What happened to Blackmores claim that he excepted
that women and children, etc., were gassed but it wasn't a policy of
the Nazi Government?

Why do you twist statements all the time?  I said I have some theories
about what may have happened and why, but it is all speculation on my
part.  I do not believe that the German government gave orders to murder
women and children.--rb



 Hmmmm. Since Grese knew what S.B. was and she was
very definate. Since she does say that EVERYONE in the camp knew about
the gas chambers it appears that whether or not the officers discussed
this fact among themselves is moot.

>  She already admitted that NO staff member
>ever told her their were gas chambers at Auschwitz.--rb

So she did. Why should they discuss that with which they may have been
uncomfortable. Why call it "on the way back to camp," "gone away," or
"up the smoke stack," or even "sonderbehandlung?"

This would be contrary to human nature.  Everyone in the camp was tlaking
about the rumored gas chambers, but, aside from some suriviors, no one
ever seems to have actually seen them...Hmmmm.--rb


Mike Curtis 
E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:10 PST 1996
Article: 88478 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 12:28:31 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 34
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The charges against her were not simply those of participating in
selections. There were also charges of beatings, etc., and some of
these she admitted to.

Yes, she beat people for malingering and stealing other people's food. 
That is hardly a reason to hang someone.--rb

 You have this simplistic habit of narrowing the
evidence to her testimony alone. then you narrow that into specific
events.

All testimony should be examined rigorously.  I read her testimony and she
seemed honest and forthright--very credible.

 You exclude evidence given by others and you ignore the fact
that she was charged under both charges

I do notignore the others.  I read their accusations and Ido not believe
them.  If I thought there was a word of truth in it, I would say so.  Most
of these people were professional witnesses, willing and ready to say
anything against an accused witch.  As for the 2 charges I am aware of
them both, and I feel she was not guilty on both counts.  God forbid that
an honest person should have sat in judgment on these people.

. You are distorting the case
against her to meat your own agenda and are not being fair to the
sources available. This is something that most _good_, _fair_, and
honest historians who got As in their classes learn NOT to do.

I have studied their comments and Ido not find their accusations to be
credible, Mike.  That's all there is to it.  I feel sorry for Ms. Grese
and her family.  She did not deserve to die.--rb




From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 14:31:11 PST 1996
Article: 88489 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:17:03 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 21
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	Yes but you were lying.  The water for the first week was
*transported* by 
British water carts.  The testimony was that the water they transported
came from the 
river.  Of course, your lie is still irrelevant.

	Or are you going to now tell us that that the water in the river
suddenly 
became potable one week after the British arrived?

	Isn't it time you gave up the ghost on this?  You are just making
a fool of 
yourself.

	--YFE

Yale--how many times do you need to be told--the water for the first week
came from British field units--it did not come from the river.  It came
>from  the river a week later after the water  was pumped into the camp and
filtered for consumption.  The water used for showering did not need to be
filtered, simply pumped in.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:28 PST 1996
Article: 88579 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Blackmore's antisemitic doggerel
Date: 25 Dec 1996 10:42:22 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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  You used "they" throughout.  Nobody could possibly know that the
"they" celebrating Hanukkah were not the same "they" who are a) far from
silenced and b) attacking you.  There is simply no way a literate reader
could understand that there are two different sets of people referred to
by "they" in the above paragraph.

    So I guess your defense is that you are not competent in the English
language?  Actually, I can produce quite a bit of evidence for that.

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the
official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

You are right...the text is confusing...but I can picture old Chuck Feree
hobbling around the Hannukah bush....there was no need for you to get
hostile, Michael.


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:28 PST 1996
Article: 88583 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 10:59:29 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 14
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  What next, counselor?  Sip
>  around the turds and be safe?  

	

>  	Hey, genius!  Tell us more.  

	Sure.  Like it or not it is fairly easy to purify water.  You boil
it.  About five 
minutes does the trick.

Tell you what, Yale...the next time you drop a big old turd in the toilet,
scoop some of the water out, boil it for five minutes, and then openwide
for chunky........


From tutu101@aol.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:29 PST 1996
Article: 88613 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:50:47 GMT
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She testified about the selections to the gas chambers, and
her participation in these selections.

But you "forgot" to include this in the excerpts you took from
her testimony... right?

You should see a doctor about that memory problem.


-Danny Keren.

As usual you play loose and free with the facts.  Irma Grese never saw a
gas chamber.  She had never been informed of a gass chamber by any of her
superiors or her subordinates.  I hardly thinkthey would have told a 21
year old girl anything about any mass murder plans anyway.  She made it
clear from her testimony that it was the rumors of inmates which first
alerted her to the gas chamber story.  By the way, Grese could not select
anyone for the alleged gas chambers...only a physician could do that,
according to the accounts.


From tutu101@aol.com Thu Dec 26 09:02:28 PST 1996
Article: 88772 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'There was no longer any escape'
Date: 24 Dec 1996 21:13:31 GMT
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'There was no longer any escape'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:27:59 GMT
Lines: 17

Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
any escape.

Halle 1515   The strange case of the converted Jew, Johann Pfefferkorn. 
Pfefferkorn confessed to poisonings on a large scale, stealing several
consecrated hosts, kidnapping 2 children, one of who he sold to other Jews
that they might extract its blood--the other he let free because it had
red hair.  Pfefferkorn was executed for his admitted crimes.  Source: 
Trachtenberg


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 02:14:46 PST 1996
Article: 88841 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'A gassing experiment was carried out'
Date: 24 Dec 1996 21:10:39 GMT
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'A gassing experiment was carried out'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:30:46 GMT
Lines: 32

Testimony of SS Scharfuhrer Erich Fuchs, in the Sobibor-Bolender trial, 
Dusseldorf 
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 31-32]. 
--------------------------------------------------------------
 ....We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at 
least 200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation 
and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube.

I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the
ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The
chemist, who I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with
measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas.

Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out.  If my memory
serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas
chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place
close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the
above mentioned SS members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the
women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in
motion. The motor functioned first in neutral.  Both of us stood by
the motor and switched from "Neutral" (Freiauspuff) to "Cell" (Zelle),
so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber. At the suggestion of the
chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite speed so that it was
unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later
the thirty to forty women were dead.




-Danny Keren.

At Breisach in Breisgau it was discovered that all the Jews of Strasbourg,
Basel, Freiburg, and Breisach were in league and had jointly hired agents
to deposit the poisons, which the Jews of Basel supplied, in the wells.   
Source:  Trachtenberg


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:51 PST 1996
Article: 88876 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Let her lie, why do you care?"
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:08:35 GMT
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# Remember that Blackmore prefers all individual
# testimony be viewed in a vacuum. I can't think
# of one trial where this is the case.

"rblackmore" (Boger) has some serious problems with
logic. For instance, he claims that Kramer is a truthful
and reliable witness about Belsen. But Kramer also
testified about the mass murder in Auschwitz-Birkenau
and about the gassings in Natzweiler (of which he was
responsible).

So were does "rblackmore" go from here? Probably, he
will now claim that the REAl Kramer testified about
Belsen but it was a FAKE Kramer who testified about
Birkenau and Natzweiler!


-Danny Keren.

No, Blackmore will simply tell you that the first statement given by
Kramer, before he fell into the hands of experienced "interrogators" is
that there was no gas chamber at Auschwitz.  Now, what do you say about
the allegation made by one of your sacred witnesses that there was a gas
chamber under construction at Belsen?--rb


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:52 PST 1996
Article: 89011 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 25 Dec 1996 11:02:32 GMT
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	You fabrications are now reaching laughable proportions.

	--YFE

God's truth, Yale.  I haven't stopped laughing since I first read your
post.


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:53 PST 1996
Article: 89014 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Grabner Ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening'
Date: 24 Dec 1996 21:03:41 GMT
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Grabner Ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:52:21 GMT
Lines: 19

 From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
--------------------------------------------------------------
At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered
me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it
trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.

   * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz

A 16th century report has it that in 1348 the Jews held a meeting at
Benfeld, Alsace,  as they later confessed,  and there hatched a plot to
poison all the wells in Germany  from the German sea to the Italian
mountains.   The Devil and the Jews, Trachtenberg, p. 103.




From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:54 PST 1996
Article: 89077 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Blackmore's antisemitic doggerel
Date: 24 Dec 1996 23:59:44 GMT
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    Those were the only people you were talking about, so when you said
"they" were celebrating Hanukkah, you could only have been referring to
the people you just reiterated had done terrible and reprehensible things
to you.  Would you call them _nice_ people?

    Posted/emailed.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the
official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

I wikll inform you here and now that the 'People celebrating hannukah were
NOT included as you seem to think.  The people I suspected for the outrage
are gentiles who post on alt revisionism.


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:54 PST 1996
Article: 89094 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: False witness/ethnic ethic/rock ...hard place/desperation
Date: 27 Dec 1996 10:56:30 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
>	These following accounts relate eyewitness testimonies to
>Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, located in Germany. Putting it in
>the words of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the witnesses testify of
>this camp as having "specially equipped" gassing facilities for
>extermination of human beings.
>

  have seen no testimony to gas chambers at Bergen-Belsen. If you have
some please provide the sources.

>	What does the Simon Wiesenthal Center have to say about
>concentration/extermination camps being located inside Germany itself?
>

Here I see you change the subject. Bah!


Mike Curtis 
E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/

Well, well, well, you say you never heard of this. Mike?  I only posted it
2 or 3 times!!  But of course your memory is failing
you....howpredictable, and thank you, Mr. Moran.


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:55 PST 1996
Article: 89096 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: False witness/ethnic ethic/rock ...hard place/desperation
Date: 27 Dec 1996 10:59:45 GMT
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In response to Mark Van Alstine's boring apologia of the Wiesenthal
Center:

Bah!  Humbug!


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:56 PST 1996
Article: 89103 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore's obtuse Postings
Date: 27 Dec 1996 11:09:51 GMT
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In reply to Curtis's "ObtuseBlackmore" post:  Michael, can you try to be
more concise and less verbose.  If you want to argue withme,take it one
point at a time.  Your long posts are simply too turgid, with too much
material crammed in there.  As to your comments:

I don't believe your witness who claims she saw Grese beat someone to
death.  I happen to know that gratuitous beatings of inmates at Auschwitz
were strictly prohibited.  Your witness never names the alleged victim or
the alleged person who was with her.  All forms of corporal punishment had
to be approved of in advance by authorities in Berlin.  The very idea of
little Irma Grese beating people to death with her cellophane whip is a
joke.  Grese was innocent.  She never deserved to hang on the basis of
unproved witchcraft like hysterical denunciations.  And all this fuss and
ado you raise about these issues is unconvincing and reminds me of a
Shakespearian line:  "Thou doth protest too much."


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:57 PST 1996
Article: 89123 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Correcting Giwer's and Blackmore's scientific ignorance
Date: 27 Dec 1996 12:23:56 GMT
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>    So please tell us, of the few that cannot, how common are they, and
>>which diseases do they cause? 

Research it and get back to us.--rb
>>
>>    So please tell us, what reason did Kramer have to think that the
river
>>was polluted with such bacteria? 

Object.  Calls for speculation.  How would I know what Kramer was
thinking?-rb
>
>	Perhaps Kramer read the same material that has been known to
>campers from around the time of Pasteur?  Holohuggers being ignorant
>of such matters of course. --MG 

    You are correct - I was not aware of Pasteur listing any bacteria
which are immune to boiling.  Perhaps you would care to list such
material?
You can't?  Why am I not surprised?-MS

And you are claiming to have read all of Pasteur's papers on the
subject?--rb

    There is an ambiguity here which I should point out - the issue is (or
should be) whether there are strains of dangerous bacteria which are
completely immune to boiling.  As I shall explain below, the issue of
whether each and every cell is guaranteed to be killed by boiling (i.e.,
total sterilization is achieved) is an irrelevant red herring.--MS?


[snip]

>>>Water Purifying
>>>
>>>Treat all water as if polluted.  Crystal-clear water could be
>>>contaminated.  Tap water polluted.  Mountain stream running from a high
>>>village or over a dead sheep.
>>>Risks of cholera, thyphoid, dysentery, or schistosomiasis too
>>>great....Various methods to purify water....So...to purify:
>>
>>    Would you please explain, in your own words, what you think "Various
>>methods to purify water" means?
>>
>>
>>>Strain all water through a cloth or folded hankerchief to suspend grit,
>>>gravel, dust, sand,...
>>
>>    Please tell us how this kills bacteria. 
>
>	Why would only a holohugger be dumd enough to read the purpose for
>doing it and then ask what his has to do with killing bacteria?--MG

    Why would only a "revisionist" have so little literacy that he cannot
understand the irony and the purpose behind the question?  Blackmore
focused on bacteria.  He did not establish that there was significant
particulate matter in the river needing filtering in the first place.--MS

Er--I focused on all the aspects involved.  Bacteria was important due to
the weakened immune systems of many camp inmates.--rb


>But
>perhaps you know better than you prentend and realiaze that bacteria
>might survive the chemical process if in the crevice of suspended
>particulates?  
>	
>>    Please also produce evidence to demonstrate why Kramer and his
staff,
>>using any healthy prisoners if need be (since you have claimed that such
>>were available), could not have implemented this measure.MS

This is not necessary.  Kramer had a calamity on his hands and it is easy
for you to talk today about what he could and could not or should and
should not have done.  Kramer's decision-and it was the right one--was to
arrange for the surrender of the camp ASAP to the allies.--rb
>
>	As everyone but holohuggers knows clean handkerchiefs were in
short
>supply.--MG

    As everyone also knows, you merely assert this.  Is it really your
claim that Kramer could not possibly have found a bit of clean cloth
somewhere, or found someplace to wash a dirty one, if he had only exerted
himself a little more?  He himself was wearing filthy rags?  Note that
cloth is mentioned in addition to handkerchiefs.  But you are illiterate,
so perhaps you did not notice this.  And you are dishonest, so perhaps you
noticed this but did not mention it.--MS

It would have taken more than a bit of clean cloth to deal with that mess.
 I suppose you think Kramer was "dressed to kill"?  As a matter of fact,
his appearance did not  seem to be much better than some of the prisoners.
 -RB


>>>Boil hard for at least a minute  (longer preferably)
>>
>>    Please tell us why, if this is so totally useless due to the
existence
>>of bacteria which can survive boiling, the book bothers to list it. 

Fact is, the book lists these many methods of purification to be used
jointly, in order for them to be effective.--RB
>
>	In other words, based upon the biological ignorance of the
>questioner, an authoritative source is questioned.--MG

    It is good to see that you agree with me that Blackmore is wrong, that
boiling is an effective way of treating water.

He did no such thing.--RB

  Of course you are too
illiterate and/or too dishonest to see that I am questioning Blackmore's
prior claims about the uselessness of boiling water, not the source
Blackmore strangely believes supports him when in fact it contradicts
him.-MS

Indeed--the uselessness of boiling SOME water.  It depends on the
situation,according to military sanitation books I  have read.  If they
were in error, perhaps the knowledgeable Mr. Stein would care to correct
them>--RB

    As you are too illiterate to understand, I agree with the
authoritative source.  Blackmore raised the issue of bacteria which cannot
be killed by boiling in order to excuse Kramer's failure to even try this
method.  It is Blackmore who said the source was wrong without realizing
that he once again contradicted his own argument.  That is his problem,
not mine.  Take it up with him. 

    You lose _again_.


>	Perhaps your attention is better directed towards your mother's
>cook book under the subject of canning.  Under canning you will find
>mention of a pressure cooker to terminate all biological activity.

    I am quite aware of this.  You are clearly ignorant of the fact that
acid foods can be canned without a pressure cooker.  Do you know the
reason?  And do you know why your whole argument is specious, as is that
of Mr. Blackmore?


>This REQUIREMENT has been known since the Naploeanic Wars and before
>Pasteur was born.  But then, holohuggers were born yesterday.

    In order to make this argument, you really _must_ think I was born
yesterday.  Unfortunately for you, you have really put your foot in it
this time, although this is hardly anything new for you.  Mr. Blackmore's
was already there some time ago; you are just an unexpected bonus.

    Your attention is directed towards the fact that the quote nowhere
mentions campers using a pressure cooker to boil the water.  But you know
that.  So why the difference?  It is quite clear that either you are
ignorant and do not understand the reason, or you are deliberately
deceiving people about science. 

    You and Blackmore are raising a very fat red herring with the comment
about "all biological activity."  Canning is for long-term storage. 
Complete sterilization is needed because of the organism known as
Clostridium botulinum, the cause of the deadly food poisoning known as
botulism.  This organism is anaerobic - it needs the airless environment
of the can to thrive.  A small number of surviving Clostridium spores will
eventually reproduce to the point where they become dangerous - but only
in non-acidic canned goods, not in food exposed to air.  The pressure
cooker is required specifically to kill _all_ the Clostridium spores.

    The water, on the other hand, would be for immediate consumption, and
furthermore is not canned, which means that the anaerobic Clostridium is
not a problem.  This is why boiling is acceptable treatment and a pressure
cooker is not mentioned in the survival guide.  Now that I have remedied
your gross scientific ignorance, perhaps you would care to rethink your
position?

    If you and Blackmore were scientifically literate, you would know that
ordinary tap water contains quite a few bacteria.  Water treatment does
not sterilize it - if for no other reason, it would quickly become
recontaminated once it left the treatment facility.  The goal of treatment
is merely to reduce the bacteria count to a level where it does not pose a
health risk.  Your local water utility takes E. Coli counts as a proxy for
general bacterial levels - and those counts are always greater than zero. 
A couple years ago in the DC area, the E. Coli counts went over acceptable
levels.  Before I learned of it, I drank some tap water.  Not a damn thing
happened to me.  In fact, I don't remember hearing of anyone suffering any
ill effects. 

Comment"  Now I wonder what the effect would have been on a person with
AIDS or some one suffering with typhus and dysentery?--RB

    So what did the Corps of Engineers tell us to do during this crisis? 
Either use bottled water, or - surprise! - boil the tap water.  And
not one word was said about pressure cookers or any of the other measures
listed in Mr. Blackmore's survival guide.--MS

COMMENT:  We are talking about two different situations.  What do you know
of the river from where the water was allegedly taken?  Why don't we start
with that, first?--RB

    Now that we have determined the speciousness of the objection you and
Blackmore have raised to excuse Kramer's dereliction of duty, could you
please tell us whether your problem in this case is scientific illiteracy
or merely more of your deliberate dishonesty?

    You lose _again_.

Glad you think so.  Now, after you have finished patting yourself on the
back, perhaps you would care to read the following:

Taken from:     United States War Department
                      Basic Field Manual

Subject:  Military Sanitation and First Aid
July, 1940.

Referring to Chapter 4:    Intestinal Diseases

We read the following:

"Th eintestinal diseases are those in which the causal agents are
eliminated from the body in the feces and urine.  They are usually
transmitted by contaminated food and water which may be transmitted by the
hands or eating utensils.....The principal intestinal diseases are:

Amebic dysentery, Bacillary dysentery, Cholera, Diarrhea, Paratyphoid
fever, Protozoal dysenteries, Typhoid fever, etc. etc.

Carriers of typhoid fever, amebic dysentery, or other of the intestinal
diseases are relatively common.......

CONTROL MEASURES:

Effective control of intestinal diseases is chiefly dependent on control
of the transmission agencies......The following measures are essential to
the control of intestinal diseases:

1.  Purification and protection of water supplies.
2.  Proper inspection and protection of food supplies
3.  Proper mess sanitation
4.  Proper waste disposal
5.  Fly control
6.  Not relevant
7.  Rigid personal hygiene of all individuals
8.  Rigid discipline in matters of sanitation, particularly as regards
avoiding unauthorized sources of water and food.

FIELD WATER SUPPLIES

Water Sources:  Practically all sources of water in the field must be
considered as contaminated.  Thus, all water should be properly treated
before use unless the Medical Department has established DEFINITE PROOF
(rb)  that the source is not contaminated.  Some sources, of water are,
however, better than others.  Surface water (ponds, RIVERS (rb), or small
streams) is generally more heavily contaminated than ground water. 
(springs or wells).

METHODS OF PURIFICATION

CHLORINATION---Chlorination is the method of choice and may be carried out
in the water sterilizing bag, in water carts, in small reservoirs, or by
the mobile purification units operated by the Corps of Engineers.

End of Quotes

Thus we see the reality of the situation.  The transmission of deadly
intestinal illness was contributed by the inmates themselves, who turned
their living quarters into disgusting trash heaps, which spread germs and
was the perfect environment for the transmission of deadly diseases.  We
see that, according to the manual, rivers are to be suspected as harboring
many dangerous contaminants.  We also see that purification units and
field units with water carts regularly accompany the troops, which fits in
exactly with the situation at Belsen as I described it.  If the British
authorized the inmates of the camp to drinkl water from the river one week
later, and thousands of people later died, I would call this
incompetence--negligence---far worse than Kramer is accused of.--RB


>>    Please also produce evidence to demonstrate why Kramer and his
staff,
>>using any healthy prisoners if need be (since you have claimed that such
>>were available), could not have implemented this measure.-MS

I would think that by now the answers should be rather obvious.  They had
no supplies, much less the amount of Chlorine necessary to provide water
for 60,000 inmates.--RB
>
>	Boiling?  What fuel?--MG

Indeed...first the water would still have to be tested, according to the
manual.  Also, cinsider that 60,000 people needed water----what vessels
would be large enough to boil the sheer volume of water required to
distribute to so many people?--RB

    Gee, even if we assume there was not a stick of wood or scrap of paper
to be hand, how about just a little of the fuel in the trucks that were
bringing in those huge loads of prisoners Mr. Blackmore pleads that Belsen
was not equipped to handle?  How about whatever fuel it was that was used
to make the soup which Kramer said the inmates were fed?---MS

Your facetious answer shall not save you.  Most of the prisoners were
brought by either train, which came under the jurisdiction of the
department of transport, over which Kramer had no authority.  Now you are
simply being silly.  And of course belsen was equipped to handle
them--that's whyit looked the way it did after the war.  Again, you are
being silly.  As for the soup--they were lucky to get even that,
considering the situation at the end of the war.--RB

    If you cannot pay attention to everything that has been posted, do not
try to participate in the discussion.  That is a Giwer Rule. 

    You lose _again_, Matt.


Because YOU  SAY SO?--RB

[remainder of Mr. Giwer's argument based on his scientific ignorance
deleted]

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the
official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.--
                                                                On this
issue--thank God for that!-RB


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 11:36:58 PST 1996
Article: 89144 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Let her lie, why do you care?"
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:06:02 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 12
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'Unsupported?'  

Her comments were certianly supported by Harold Le Druillence, 
and Fritz Klein, to name just two. 

- Brian

I am afraid you don't understand what this means.  Her testimony is
unsupported in that no one else hear the conversation........It is her
word against kramer's...as well as Klein's word against Kramer as
well,,,as for Mr. D......he was a prisoner and inmate--rb


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 13:25:08 PST 1996
Article: 89253 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row'
Date: 24 Dec 1996 21:07:31 GMT
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row'
Message-ID: 
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:50:39 GMT
Lines: 47

Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
gas chambers...

Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
in their jewellery and valuables..

1348  Chillon, Lake Geneva.  A Jewish surgeon, Balvignus, revealed that
several Jews in a town in the south of France--named Jacob a  Paskate of
Toledo, Peyret of Chambery, and one Aboget--had compounded a poison out of
human hearts, spiders, frogs, lizards, human flesh, and sacred hosts, and
had distributed the resultant powder to be deposited in wells and streams
which supplied Christians with water.   The Devil and the Jews,
Trachtenberg, p. 104)


From tutu101@aol.com Fri Dec 27 13:25:09 PST 1996
Article: 89255 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the tosephta
Date: 24 Dec 1996 21:16:00 GMT
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: Well, again I ask:  What exactly IS the tosephta?--rb

Sorry, that's a secret that can only be revealed to people who either (a)
are in on the Conspiracy; (b) have access to a public library; or (c) are
capable of posting the question to the appropriate newsgroup.  But I'll
give you a hint:  remember Cyd Charisse in the "Gotta Dance" number in
"Singin' in the Rain?"  Well, the tosephta are nothing at all like that.
Unfortunately.

-----
Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
-----

OK, have it your way. I will post Julius Streicher's explanation of what
it is.


From tutu101@aol.com Sat Dec 28 09:13:33 PST 1996
Article: 89413 of alt.revisionism
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From: tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another phony confession extracted by torture?
Date: 27 Dec 1996 12:51:13 GMT
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    He has now done so, though I doubt that many will find it believable. 
He says he found it in an anti-semitic newspaper, leaving open the obvious
question of why he thought it worth sending in the first place to a man he
says he does not even know.  But he has openly admitted to sending it.

    Now the question is: will Mr. Stele accuse us of having tortured Mr.
Blackmore to extract this confession?
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the
official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

I repeat:  I do notknow Mr. Covington, and yes, the ditty was in
ananti-Semitic newspaper....I have a few hundred for sale, and the rest
for research purposes.  After all, we have to keep an eye on these evil
right wingers........



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