The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1296


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:14 PST 1996
Article: 83200 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Good Old Days,2.  Who killed the cop?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 02:22:57 GMT
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Here is something from chapter two entitled:  "Bloody
Wednesday in Olkusz/Ilkenau".

The excerpt begins by inform us that a capital crime had
occurred on 16 July 1940.  A German policeman named
Ernest Kaddatz was bushwhacked and murdered by assailants
unknown.  The German authorities believed the assailants were
hiding out in the town of Olkusz.  

On 31 July the town was surrounded by police units.  A Jew was
or Jews were suspected of the murder.  Thus, the Jewish inhabitants
of the town were compelled toassemble in the village square and lie
face down on the ground for a number of hours while the town and their
persons were searched.  It is alleged that the Jews were beaten with rifle
butts, but no evidence is offered to sustain that charge.

A Jew named Tadeusz Lupa is shot while attempting to flee.  This must
have made him appear guilty in the eyes of the investigating authorities.
The authors of the book tekk us that Tadeusz could not stand the "torture"
of lying face down on the ground so he fled.

Finally, we are told that the towns population was sent to Auschwitz in 1942,
with no additional comment.  The obvious inference which the authors of the
book wish to be drawn is that the Jews were murdered there.  Yet, they offer
no proof whatsoever.

Photographs are reproduced showing the jews of the town being searched
and lying on the ground.  There is no sign of mistreatment. 

Conclusion:  The killer was probab;y Tadeusz.  



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:14 PST 1996
Article: 83201 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:41:33 GMT
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  jimmy@jaimie.mcc (jimmy) writes [to me]:
>  
>  # Unlike you, little Danny, when there are no more nazis there
>  # is no one from whom to obtain praise and self worth.  When
>  # one apologizes for Jews, there are still many of them to 
>  # imagine will praise you and give you self worth.
>  
>  Ok boys, who forgot to run PGP on this?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Danny, go back to your photo collection.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:15 PST 1996
Article: 83203 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:35:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>

>  
>  Blackmore:
>  >The same could well be asked of Kramer................................
>  
>  M.  Curtis:
>  Kramer was in charge of the party was he not?
>  
>  Deniers have attempted to use the nit-picking technique of  reporting
>  "history."

It isn't nit picking.  What it is is exposing the lies you people and your
witnesses have attempted to propagate over the years.  And our efforts
seem to be gaining headway after years of lies and distortions.

 Examples of Blackmores mendacity have been illustrated
>  above.

It has?  To you, perhaps.

 It is quite easy, as Jamie McCarthy has stated, to state a lie;

It is also quite easy to do, as Holocaust survivors have been doing it
for years.  Now it is your job to repeat the lies and attempt to defend them.
A thankless task and heritage.

>  much more difficult, tedious, time-consuming to disprove the lie

As we revisionists have found out, but we are making great strides
at this moment, as we expose the whole sordid distortion for what it is.

 But
>  that is what Nizkor is all about

What?  Spreading and defending lies?

 As long as there are those who will
>  lie about the Holocaust , there will be many others willing to
>  disprove the lies.


And here I be.

rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:16 PST 1996
Article: 83205 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies and libels in the same putrid breath .... Re: Questions rblackmore@juno.com (jbelling@sprynet.net) refuses to answer...
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:20:52 GMT
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   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
rblackmore writes:

(I had tosnip most of Gandhi's inane drivel, as he is beyond 
understanding even the most simple logic.)

  
     Of course it is knowingly being mislead.  Where are they getting the false
    figures from?  Surely not out of thin air?
  
  To which I respond:
  
  Aside from the utter lack of a factual basis for this claim, which of
  course, is beyond stupid, I'd like to know the following:
  
     (1) For what reason would somebody knowinglymislead the public in this
  manner ?

Why don't you direct your questions to the proper sources, rather than
to me?  Refer again to the Discovery Channel, WW II magzine, Nathan
Ausubel and the Pictorial History of the Jewish People, and, most importantly,
to the Auschwitz State Museum, which maintained this fake figure for decades.
Refer to newspapers like the NY Times and the LA Times which parroted these
fake figures you still ardently believe it for years.  You are a true believer, and no
logic wil ever shake the foundations of your irrational faith and compulsion
to believe in a lie greater than your own.

     (2) Who is behind this alleged conspiracy ?

Is it a conspriacy?  have I ever used that expression?  If you
wish to know-seek and you might find-knock and the door might
open to you.
  
  I also said in response to the Lying-Bellinger-Troll:
  
     Nor does it negate the statement of myself, and others, that
     serious Holocaust historians have never given credence to the figure of 4
     million. It further doesn't support the revisionist belief that the
     Holocaust is a hoax.

Your serious historians-who are they?  hilberg and fleming?  (Naturally)
  
  To which Lying-Bellinger-Troll says:
  
     Who is a "serious" historian?  A historian who supports your view of the
  Holocaust
     of course.  Much as serious scientists once supported the idea that the
  earth was
     flat and that witches kissed the ass of the devil.  Your "serious"
  historians, such
     as Reitlinger, Pressac, Hilberg, etc; ie, those who "believe in the
>  gassing myth",
>     also have disagreements of opinion.  Choose whose opinion is correct, a,
>  b, or c.
>     Invariably it will be the "historian" with the highest mortality rate. 
>  Thats the order
>     of things in the distorted world of the Holocaust.  
>  
>  And I respond:
>  
>     Historians are most certainly permitted to disagree. Holocaust
>  Historians, that is
>     people with extensive knowledge of the facts surrounding the systematic
>     extermination of 12 million people, between 6 and 7 million Jews, often
>  disagree
>     about thefacts surrounding the Holocaust. However, they do it from a rational
>     basis involving facts, evidence, and logical reasoning. These three
>  items are lost
>     on you, and I'd wager most revisionists. You put faith in people like
>  Leuchter,
>     a fraud and a perjurer. You believe people  like David Irving and
>  Zundel. The latter
>     peddles garbage he knows to be forged and fradulent. The former lies
>     about his obvious links to the National Alliance, an organization that
>  is, by it's
>     very nature, anti-semetic.

All of that is your opinion.  The fact is your little Holocaust story is on
its way out for good.
>  
>  Finally, Lying-Bellinger-Troll charges:
>  
>  > Truth will not come until you admit the falsity of your claims about the
>  > Holocaust.
>  
>  To which I respond:
>  
>  Indeed it will not. So perhaps you should retract your lies then, with
>  respect to the Simon Wisenthal Center, the Discovery Channel, and WWII
>  Magazine.

My, you have a curious way of twisting things to make you look even
more stupid and pig headed than you probably are.
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will never come out of Raj Gandhi-rblackmore
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:17 PST 1996
Article: 83207 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:16:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57nnbh$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57d1jp$3kc@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
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>   dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) writes:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >Do you really expect him to show anything more than the face of a 
>  >deranged clown?
>  
>  	Chris Carpenter made an assertion, now he's being asked to back it up.
>  What's the problem?
>  
>  	Derek
>  
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>  Version: 2.6.3ia
>  Charset: noconv
>  
>  iQCVAgUBMpoJrlXdSMogwMcZAQEgdAP/UDJakywJPAABRIgANsNadn1W9KPuWjid
>  ffdi/Xl47/WHh1IUNUNxOlzgRz1UbbvZb7AGsTnrIbUMqwZaCLPSUJ4yN2TZY6p9
>  rHlInzoI/kjYpdYXJNGfT/FTaD2kza/RwUA7y+yHbuQj0p6RNA+jvEeY+MGoT5S2
>  AAYC0WCJsBU=
>  =lIg3
>  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>  -- 
>  Derek Bell  dbell@maths.tcd.ie                | "Donuts - is there _anything_
>  WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html|        they can't do?"
>  PGPkey: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/key.asc|        - Homer Simpson
>  
>>>>
What's the problem?  You should ask!


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:18 PST 1996
Article: 83208 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:18:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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>   ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>  On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:12:27 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>  wrote:
>  
>  >ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>  >
>  ># "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
>  ># Christians and get control of their gold. We have already
>  ># killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet."
>  >#
>  ># (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
>  >
>

>  >I repeat my question: can you present any proof whatsoever
>  >that this Rabbi (if he existed), said what you allege he said?
>  I gave you names, dates, and places.  Go verify, or disprove.
>  >
>  >We have seen forgeries like this before (the Franklin
>  >forgery, for instance).
>  Are you sure its a forgery?  How do you know?
>  Go research Rabbi Reichorn and get back to me.

we also may have seen forgeries with Himmler's alleged Posen
speech, but ole Danny is sure to flaunt that one as authentic.-rb
>  
>  >The ball is in your court, nazi-boy.
>  >-Danny Keren.
>  No, the ball is in your court - either accept his statement or
>  prove he did not say it.
>  Chris__________________________________________
>  
>>>>
Do you really expect this person to comply with your request, Mr. Carpenter?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:18 PST 1996
Article: 83209 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:20:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>  
>  >>In 1996, in the United States, Chris Carpenter said:
>  >>
>  >>"I am a lying antisemitic Nazi-wannabe. I despise Jesus Christ
>  >>but find the pathetically stupid Christian Identity movement a
>  >>useful tool in disseminating my lies. I only wish the Holocaust
>  >>had succeeded 100%."
>  >>
>  >>Either admit this statement or prove you did not say it.
>  >Everyone knows that I would not say that.
>  
>  Nonsense. I for one know no such thing. I know that I in fact 
>  made up those particular words, but so far, the evidence on the
>  table that you said them is exactly as good as the evidence 
>  that your alleged Chief Rabbi in France said the words you 
>  attribute to him. You said that you had a source for those words,
>  and evidence that he said them, but you haven't shown either, so
>  I find it reasonable to suppose that, at best, you partake of much
>  of what I attributed to you, to wit, that you are a lying antisemite.
>  
>>>>
Miss Flower, go have some tea and biscuits and play a little
bridge-it is much better suited to your limited capabilities.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:19 PST 1996
Article: 83210 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Did Hitler Commit the Unforgivable Sin?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:21:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   I.Whitfield@btinternet.com (Irene Whitfield) writes:
>  In article <571eg1$829@basement.replay.com>, nobody@REPLAY.COM says...
>  >
>  >In article <56trlc$nba$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net
>  >(Gord McFee) wrote:
>  >
>  >> Come back when you know the difference between theology
>  >> and zoology.
>  >
>  >
>  >Anonymous responds:
>  >
>  >Of course I know the difference between theology and
>  >zoology.
>  >
>  >Whites are the Chosen Ones, and everybody else is an
>  >animal.
>  >
>  >Yes my Hero did commit the unforgivable sin,
>  in so much as he never finished the job.
>  Matt,     Courtesy of Irene Whitfield.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Irene, are you feeling ok today?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:20 PST 1996
Article: 83213 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:25:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:


>  
>  [Duewell S.198
>   IMT XXXII S. 234ff, PS-3358]
>  
>  This is item III 115 on page 276 of
>  "Das Sonderrecht fuer die Juden im
>  NS-Staat" (2nd Edition)
>  Edited by J.WAlk
>  Published by CF Mueller Verlag, Heidelberg, 1996
>  
>  ISBN 3-8252-1889-9
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Now you will prove that Frank had the authority to implement
such a policy?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:21 PST 1996
Article: 83215 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Good Old Days-Pogrom at Kaunas
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:19:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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A very serious pogrom took place at Kovno and Kaunas.
The violent actions of the mob were fully described by 
German witnesses at the time.  From these descriptions we
learn the followiing:

That the pogrom was exclusively the affair of the Lithuanians,
and as such, they are accountable for what happened.

The descriptions sound similar to the horrors perpetrated by the
French during their bloody revolution.

The "Death Dealer" was very active in meting out death
sentences with his club.  The victims were men, who were beaten
to death in bestial manner to the cheering of the population.

The explanation given for these horrors was that the victims were
communist oppressors who were guilty of collaborating with the
communists, thus they were sentenced to death for their alleged
crimes by the mob.

The German authorities forbid such public executions, but the rage
of the mobs could not be contained.

A photographer took photos of this action, in which a number of
men were beaten to death to the cheers of the crowd and the 
playing of the Lithuanian anthem.  He was told by a member of
the crowd that one of the men doing the killing had had his family
butchered just two days before the arrival of the Germans, and he was
now exacting his revenge against those considered responsible.

Another report written by a lance corporal in the German army clearly
states that he was never given a reason as to why the public executions
were being carried out, so he is worthless as a witness.

The third witness, a sergeant major, seemed confused by what he saw
and why it was happening, but it is clear from his account that only
15 men were thus executed.  The Germans were shocked at the brutality
of the executions, but the Lithuanians heartily approved.

A fourth witness from 562 Baker's company is of no help whatsoever 
in determining what happened and why.

The final witness, a medical orderly, is of little value.  He relates an
incident at Fort VII at Kaunas, yet his description is very vague and
offers no real explanation as to what was happening to whom and why.
He states that he "heard shooting" in the night, yet saw nothing.
He states that he never saw any shootings during the day.
He states that he  "heard" that shootings were taking place-convincing
proof for a Holohugger but hardly proof for any impartial investigator.


He states that "if he remembers correctly" all the people brought to
the fort were Jews.  This is not very convincing.

He states that bodies were thrown into a large crater and covered with
chloride and lime.  He repeats rumors he heard, yet was never a witness
to an actual shooting himself.  He states that he walked up to a crater once,
but saw no bodies because everything  "was covered with sand".

He mentions just one incident where he witnessed a person who was shot.
He states that it was a Jewish woman.  How he knew this he doesn't say...
Do Jews look different from other people? 

Finally, he states that he was just about to bandage the woman when an
SS man came along and told him to make himself scarce, and that the
Jewish woman had no further need of bandages or dressing.  He stated
that the SS man threatened to shoot him if he didn't go on his way.  He left.
He states that 2,000 Jews were taken to the site and definitely shot, yet 
he never witnessed one shooting or one corpse.  

Conclusion:  On the basis of what the authors have provided, it is very
difficult to come to a definite conclusion about what happened in the
last report and why.  The orderly's comments are not very helpful, and there
is no indication as to whom he directed his report to, or whether he ever 
received a reply or explanation.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:22 PST 1996
Article: 83217 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:43:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <57nldg$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <573bi4$34e@orion.cybercom.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   amatthews@cybercom.net (Allan Matthews) writes:
>  In article <32942588.259190856@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) wrote:
>  >The Holocaust has no physical evidence:  only contradictory and
>  >contrived "testimony."  
>  
>  The only thing around here for which there is no evidence, Brian, is your 
>  brain.  Why do lie so much?   Why do you ignore the massive amount of physical 
>  evidence for the Holocaust?  What's that?  Reality gets in the way of your 
>  crazed Jew-hating?  Oh, ok, just as long as you're up front about it.  
>  
>  One would think the Irrational Appliance could do better than you, being the 
>  Master Race (tm) and all...
>  
>  allan
>  
>  =================================================
>              amatthews@cybercom.net
>  =================================================
>  A monk asked Un Mun, "What is Buddha?"          
>  Un Mun replied, "Dry shit on a stick."           
>  =================================================
>  http://www.cybercom.net/~amatthews/amatthews.html
>  =================================================
>  
>>>>
What drug have you been taking?  Where is this phsical evidence of 
which you speak so freely?  You must know something the rest of the
world does not-or is it only delusional thinking?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:23 PST 1996
Article: 83218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:40:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <3298ec67.177512633@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
  Stele) wrote:



 "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
 of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
 overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
 lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
  Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
 York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 
 
  
  "We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by
>  little at a truth we find bitter. "
>  
>                -Denis Diderot 
>  http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
>  http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
One day Mr. Blackmore will soon eat crow pie."-Mark Van Alstine
Well, I am still waiting......


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:23 PST 1996
Article: 83238 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Some bodies fell out'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:50:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 89
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References: <573rpd$pke@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
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   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  Daniel Keren wrote:
  
  Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
  gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered
  [snip]
  
  Mr. Blackmore then responds with a long list of demands:
Now, I would ask Mr. Keren to give us a brief history of the man
who made these comments.  If he was ever charged with crimes
himself, or if he "plea bargained" and I would also ask for confirm-
ation of this incident from other sources. 
  [snip]  

  Such demands, Mr. Blackmore! Are you incapable of researching 
 this yourself, or simply unwilling?

Your friends made the accusation.  now they must convince the
skeptics.
  
  While we're on the subject of demands, why don't we get down
  to brass tacks on some issues that you and I have discussed?

  I remember quite distinctly you promised to provide proof
  for the following assertsion of yours:
  
  1) Kremer was not responsible for the conditions at Bergen-Belsen,
>     rather he did what he could to help the inmates.

This was certainly supplied in depth and I will not go into the
subject again.  I refer the reader to previous posts on this subject.
Research them on Deja News.  Are you really that dense, Mr. Harmon?
  
>     The only evidence you have provided for this assertion is Kremer's
>     own testimony. 

Untrue.  

 He is contradicted by the testimony of his
>     subordinates and soldiers who liberated the camp.  Additionally, 
>     the fact that inmates were forced to work without food or water
>     also makes things look bad for Kremer.

Work?  what?  Bury bodies which had died due to infectious disease?
I won't debate this any further.  it has already been debunked.
>  
>  2) Auschwitz testimonies discussing mass gassings are unreliable.
>     
>     The only evidence you have provided is your multi-part 
>     'Soviet Def Comed Jam' containing your favorite allegedly
>     absurd eyewitness testimonies.  These documents, oddly enough,
>     make no mention of Auschwitz at all, which leads me to wonder
>     how they can be relevant.

Do you confirm or deny the contents of the reports?
And I am still waiting for those alleged forensic tests
conducted on "gassed" inmates at dachau by Dr.
larson.  Where are they?
>  
>  
>  I certainly hope that in your absence you have had ample time
>  to research and draw up your arguments.
>  
>  > Aside from all that, I would
>  >like to comment that the killing of human beings by means of "gas 
>  >vans" is a very POOR way to embark upon a program of mass murder.
>  
>  So is shooting them, as the Nazis found out.  Why do you think
>  they then constructed the large industrial killing centers of
>  Auschwitz, Treblinka, and so on?

Prove that these were killing installations.  why is there no
forensic evidence to prove your claims?
>  
>  >How many of these vans could be built and put into effect?  How many
>  >victims could they accomodate-50-60 at most?  I am surprised that
>  >certain exterminationists continue to peddle this foolish story.  
>  
>  This foolish story, as you so blithely put it, is supported by
>  ample amounts of documentation.  

Really?  where are the vans?  will someone demonstrate one for
our benefit?
>

>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:24 PST 1996
Article: 83243 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soviet Def Comedy Jam I
Date: 30 Nov 1996 11:24:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Without getting too deeply into this, here are a few direct quotes from 
“Soviet witnesses” and prosecutors detailing German  “atrocities”:

“The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron plate was 
then lowered onto his head.  The prisoner was under the impression that he
was being measured for height.  The iron plate contained a ramrod which 
shot out suddenly and poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the 
head.  He dropped dead.  The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in the 
corner of the room.....The bodies of prisoners thus murdered were burned in 
four mobile crematories transported in trailers and attached to motor 
cars.”   Page 377 IMT Vol. VII

“It is noted in the official report that the commission examined material: 
 tools used for the torture of Soviet prisoners of war, a leather thong and 
dagger, picked up among the disarmed bodies, with the well-known Hitlerite 
slogan “Bood and Honor” (Blut und Ehre).  The circumstances in which the 
dagger was discovered give every possibility of understanding what was 
meant by German  “honor” and for whose blood the dagger was intended.”
Ibid.  P.387.

“....the Germans discovered a girl in military uniform, who resisted the 
fascists, crying, “Shoot, you vipers, I die for the Soviet  people and for 
Stalin, but you, you monsters, will die a dog's death.”  This girl patriot 
was shot on the spot.”
Ibid.  P.388.

“N.N. Dashkova, a woman from the village of Adjimushkaisk, testified:  
(Evidently before a Soviet Commission)

“I myself saw the Germans, who had caught about 900 Red Army soldiers in 
the quarry, first ill-treat and then shoot them.  The fascists used gas 
(sic!).”
Ibid.  P.388.

And finally,

“The commandant of the Yanov Camp, Obersturmfuehrer Willhaus, 
systematically shot with an automatic rifle from the balcony of his office 
room the prisoners employed in the workshops, partly for sheer love of 
sport and partly to amuse his wife and daughters.  He would then hand his 
rifle to his wife and she too had a shot at the prisoners.  Sometimes, to 
please his 9 year-old daughter, he had children between the ages of 2 and 4 
tossed in the air and then took pot shots at them, while his daughter 
applauded and shreiked  “Papa, do it again!; do it again, Papa!”  And he did 
it again.”  (!!!)

The internees of this camp were exterminated for no reason at all, often as 
the result of a bet.  A woman witness, Kirschner, informed the 
Investigating Commission that a Gestapo Commissar, Wepke, bet the other 
camp executioners that he could cut a boy in half with one stroke of the 
axe.  They did not believe him.  So he caught a 10 year old boy on the 
road, made him kneel down, told him to hide his face in the folded palm of 
his hands, made one test stroke, placed the child's head in a more 
convenient position and with one single stroke cut the boy in half.  The 
Hitlerites heartily congratulated Wepke, shaking him by the hand.
Ibid.  P. 451.

I couldn't improve on the above even if I wanted to.



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:25 PST 1996
Article: 83252 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:03:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <57nmj3$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32982b7a.17960725@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:


>  
>  I find you very strange and obviously not educated at all.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Well, more of your distortions again.  When will you ever tell the truth?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:26 PST 1996
Article: 83253 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:02:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <57nmh0$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  
>  >Or perhaps is because Mr. Belling's "library" consists of _comic_ book?
>  
>  On behalf of comic book fans everywhere I protest that remark. Ms. or
>  Mr. Belling would have a much better education if s/he were exposed to 
>  a goodly number of comic books.
>  
>>>>
Such as those written by Hilberg?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:27 PST 1996
Article: 83258 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nazi Witchcakes
Date: 30 Nov 1996 12:13:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

This one should have been part of  Soviet Def Comedy Jam but it was so
good that I couldn't resist posting it separately:


"According to instructions issued by the German Commandant, all the school children
were ordered to appear at the school at a given time.  On arrival, the 245 children,
school books in hand, were sent to a factory school outside the town, allegedly for
a walk.  There the cold and hungry infants were offered coffee and poisoned pies.  
Since there was not enough coffee to go round, those who did not get any were 
sent to the infirmary where a German orderly smeared their lips with a quick acting
poison.  In a few minutes all the children were dead.  School children of the higher 
grades were carried off in trucks and shot down by machine gun fire 8 kilometers
outside of the town.  The bodies of the first batch of murdered children were brought
to the same spot-a very large, very long, anti-tank ditch." Pg. 493.  IMT, Vol. VII.

Now, compare this with the following:
"It was common knowledge that witches targeted children.  Well over half the
indictments in New England involved the sickness or death of children.  Popular
books on witchcraft described how witches used "oil of live infants stolen out of the
cradle or dead ones stolen out of their graves" to make an unguent or jelly."........(It 
is a curiosity that one of the chapters in this book  is entitled "Witchcakes".-rb)

Source:  The Devil’s Disciples, Peter Charles Hoffer, Page 66, John Hopkins
University Press, 1996.

Just as the Jews were once basely accused of poisoning Europe's wells, so the Germans
are accused of poisoning pies.  Actually the Commandant was just a lousy cook.  The
Germans had good reason to insist that their women remain in the kitchen!






From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:27 PST 1996
Article: 83263 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the screams and groans of the people died away'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:05:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <3293f4e3.246735987@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:
>  
>  
>  > 
>  > The illustrious Suchomel interview is a hoax, with the "hidden camera"
>  > focusing in on Suchomel.  
>   
>  BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!
>   
>  Fascinating that YOU are the only person who believes this.
>   
>  Did it EVER occur to you that the "hidden camera" *might* have been held by
>  ANOTHER person?!? They were sitting in a crowded bar, you know.
>  > 
>  > >You will, of course, provide evidence of your assertion in the form of
>  > >a list of all the people blamed for the extermination of Jews marking
>  > >those who committed suicide in custody.
>  > 
>  > You will of course provide a list of every Jew who purportedly died in
>  > the Holohoax, correct?
>  > 
>  I believe Yad Vashem has that list, as complete as is possible. So yes, it
>  exists.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
>                   Samuel Butler
>  
>  
>>>>
There are a number of things you believe which are totally illogical.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:29 PST 1996
Article: 83264 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:11:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <57nn2f$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <3298ef10.178193386@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:
>  
>  [Nothing but Nazi vulgarities]
>  
>  One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
>  realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
>  street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
>  (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
>  that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
>  please visit:
>  
>  http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
>  http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r
>  
>  "In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
>  by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
>  1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
>  site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
>  planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
>  person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Yes.  Several hundred trees.  is that the real figure for Jewish deaths
during the war?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:29 PST 1996
Article: 83268 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For what its worth
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:24:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <3293c2b3.233885479@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:
>  
>  > On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:02:19 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
>  > Alstine) wrote:
>  > 
>  > >In article <56unqt$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > >
>  > >> For the record, I want to say that I was accused by Mike Curtis 
>  > >> of distorting the text in the book, "The Belsen Trial".  This was
>  > >> an out and out lie.  
>  > >
>  > >Yes, it was an out an lie. You should be ashamed of yourself for such
>  > >blatant lies, Frau"lien Schwarzesel!
>  
>  Methinks Brian is still peeved that he got his sorry carcass booted from
>  the militia newsgroup.
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Truth will never come out of Raj Gandhi-rblackmore


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:30 PST 1996
Article: 83295 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Corporal Jacob Schwartz reminisces over the "good old days" in Occupied Germany
Date: 2 Dec 1996 09:56:58 GMT
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Here are a few excerpts from a written report by
Jewish American Corporal Jacob Schwartz, reminiscing
about his "good old days" in occupied Germany:

Aachen, January 14, 1945

"To be back in Germany again after ten years, like
this, in an American uniform, riding through the 
Siegfried Line in a jeep with all my American friends.....
what a truly amazing thing!......Fortunately it is warm
in the newspaper office, and I can relax a little after
the job we did this afternoon on this wretched little
Nazi Cerfontaine.......The ruins of Aachen inspire me....
I wonder if Frankfurt has been as well punished....If
only my mother could have come with me from America
to see all this!.....




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:31 PST 1996
Article: 83296 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Corporal Jacob Schwartz reminisces over the "good old days" in Occupied Germany
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:02:40 GMT
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Here are a few excerpts from a written report by
Jewish American Corporal Jacob Schwartz, reminiscing
about his "good old days" in occupied Germany:

Aachen, January 14, 1945

"To be back in Germany again after ten years, like
this, in an American uniform, riding through the 
Siegfried Line in a jeep with all my American friends.....
what a truly amazing thing!......Fortunately it is warm
in the newspaper office, and I can relax a little after
the job we did this afternoon on this wretched little
Nazi Cerfontaine.......The ruins of Aachen inspire me....
I wonder if Frankfurt has been as well punished....If
only my mother could have come with me from America
to see all this!.....




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:32 PST 1996
Article: 83297 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:01:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
 Mike Stein wrote:
 
   They could be, but I am not suggesting that.  What I am suggesting is that
  this was one man's opinion in one particular location, 
  
  He was writing an official report about econocmic situation in the whole
  "opinion" about the mass-murders of Jews could somehow be invalid? Why
  should he write some nonsense about that to his superiors?
  
                                                           and I would be 
   interested in reading any responses to his comments at the time.
  
  I would be interested also, but due to the destruction of documents,
  sometimes we have only parts of them available. I don't know whether
  much more of the correspondence was preserved, 'tis possible.

Well, i think it ought to be introduced.  this little excerpt proves very
little.
  
  However, your answer is surely only a fit of the Beaulieu syndrome: 
  "just asking for another proof of the proof". Try first to understand
  the evidence about the author and the plain content of this document.
  It will cost you only a couple of months. Then look for further documents.
  
  Perhaps you are not aware that at the time the reports were written,
  British Intelligence intercepted and decoded many radio reports which
  involved the same kinds of killing actions in the written reports.  These
  intercepts involved the Ultra secret, which was so highly classified that
  it was not revealed until years after the war - the intercepts were never
  used at Nuremberg.  However, they corroborate the written reports that
  mass executions were being carried out - and they are completely untainted
  by Soviet hands.  Does this additional information allow you to form some
  conclusion about the written reports? 

 I have known about Ultra for some time and have also known about mass
 shootings in the Soviet Union.....
  
  Well, don't you think that in the document a campaign of systematic 
  extermination of the Jews in Ukraine is described?

I am not sure that I can agree with this.  That masses of people were
being shot for various reasons seems to have been the case.  As to how
many of these reports were purposely exaggerated, is also difficult to assess,
but this was indeed claimed by the authors of the reports themselves.  That
all of these attacks were unprovoked also needs to be proven.  Many atrocitites
occurred on the eastern front by all parties concerned:  German, Russian, and 
yes, even Jewish.

 And doesn't the
  author state also that the reasons for this were ideological, i.e.
  Nazi ideology? What does it tell about the anti-Jewish Nazi policy?

I have no argument with you about anti-Jewishness being a part of Nazi
ideology.  I only contest that this ideology led to a program to exterminate
every Jew in Europe.
  
                                 this does not prove the existence of gas
 chambers 
  
 You aren't shifting the subject now, aren't you?

Well, yes, and no.  Isn't it relevant?
  
           nor does it prove that the Nazis were out to exterminate every
 Jew in Europe.  
  
  See above, and try to answer the questions.

Have tried.
 
                 Three million germans were also murdered after the war by
 mainly Jewish agents set up with the blessing of Stalin.
  
 How do you know this?

Do you disbelieve it?

 And did you count these Germans?
  
  u.roessler                                           uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
  

And did you count the Jews?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:32 PST 1996
Article: 83299 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "The Number of Jews in the American Forces is Remarkable
Date: 2 Dec 1996 09:39:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>From  an anti-Nazi newspaper publisher:  Excerpts from
a report on the American occupation of Aachen:

"The Americans needed a place to print their proclamations,
so I was in luck.  They sent a printing machine expert to 
repair what damage there was.  It was rather strange to
be ordered around by a Jew-the number of Jews in the
American forces is remarkable-but we must all prepare ourselves
for big changes.........That I must be subservient to an outsider
in my own plant is nothing new to me, and was to have been
expected.  Sergeant Filler, the young man who now occupies 
the Goebbels....office, speaks German-he is a German-born
Jew-and he is very interested in girls, which occupies much of
his time."

From:  The Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, pp.5-6.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:33 PST 1996
Article: 83309 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:25:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  In article <19961201194200.OAA23086@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>    wrote:
>  >Charles Power wrote:
>  >
>  >>...assholes....jackass....loonies
>  >
>  >My earlier question about how reasonable the responses would be was, of
>  >course, rhetorical.  And the rhetoric predictable.
>  
>  Heavens Allmighty!
>  
>  After Giwer and Stele's insulting diatribes, where they
>  call others names like 'kike,' you have the audacity 
>  to >>whine<< when Mr. Power refers to their ilk as 
>  'assholes.'
>  
>  'Asshole' fits stele and giwer like a glove. (or in their
>  case, a buttplug.)
>  
>  Brian Harmon  
>  ------
>  Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive
>  physical evidence into a coherent and unified history. 
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
A "butt plug"?!?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:34 PST 1996
Article: 83310 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:26:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   sma4@ix.netcom.com(Steven Malcolm Anderson) writes:
>  In  olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
>  writes: 
>  >
>  >In article ,
>  Bruce Forest wrote:
>  >
>  >>To prevent asssholes like you from trying to convince the world the
>  Shoah
>  >>never happened. You are a well known anti-semite on alt.revisionism.
>  >>
>  > Because I dare to disagree with the Jews I am supposed to be an 
>  >anti-semite :-D :-D
>  >--
>  >Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk
>  
>   Your constant use of the phrase "the Jews" is bigoted.
>  -- 
>  sma4@ix.netcom.com
>  "The concept of 'greatness' entails being noble,
>   wanting to be by oneself,
>   being capable of being different, standing alone..." -Friedrich Nietzsche
>  "Identity is shaped through confict and opposition." -Camille Paglia
>  
>>>>
Come off it.  The constant use of the phrase "Nazi-boy" is bigoted.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:34 PST 1996
Article: 83311 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "A Few Good Men"
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:56:42 GMT
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Captain Springer wrote this about Corporal Schwartz:

"He is a good organizer and scrounger, and enjoys
ordering the cringing Heines around."

From:  Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.48.

Of course this is easy to do when all who were left
to be ordered around were women, children, and
the elderly.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:35 PST 1996
Article: 83312 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JW revisionism
Date: 2 Dec 1996 12:00:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Craig D  writes:
>  Does the Watchtower practice revisionism???
>  
>  http://home.earthlink.net/~defender
>  
>>>>
Yes.  Of Christianity.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:36 PST 1996
Article: 83313 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "A Few Good Men"
Date: 2 Dec 1996 12:04:07 GMT
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Captain Springer has a few kind words to say
about Corporal Jacob Schwarz:

"He is a good organizer and a born scrounger, and
enjoys ordering the cringing Heines around."

From:  Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.48.

Well, that should not have been so hard to do, as
all that was left in Aachen were homeless women,
children, and the elderly.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:37 PST 1996
Article: 83315 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg "cite"
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:05:16 GMT
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   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
  In , karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles
  R.L. Power) wrote:
  
  kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
  
  [a misprision of Robert Jackson's exchange with Albert Speer at
  Nuremberg]
  
  Sorry Mr. "Nussbaum."  You lose.
  
  Now the question is, did Jackson "charge" this or did he simply
  ask a question about it? Here is the follow-up to "Stele"'s
  "full excerpt", from  Nizkor FTP file
  people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context:
  
    MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:  The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon
    were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in
    the war?
  
    SPEER:  That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war.
    From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the
    front.  I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and
    could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people,
    were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and
    wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without
>  >>    military forces, would guarantee victory.  In this belief lies the
>  >>    secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although
>  >>    common sense told them that the war was over.  They believed that in
>  >>    the near future this new weapon would arrive.
>  
>  >Sorry Mr. "Stele". You lose.
>  
>  It is also worth noting that Jackson abandons the issue at this point
>  and goes on to discuss other rumors which were put about to boost
>  German morale in the waning days of the war. The point of the whole
>  line of questioning was to establish that the Nazi government was
>  determined to wage an aggressive war to the bitter end, not to
>  establish the grounds for the charge of "Crimes Against Humanity."
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Mr. Morris, of course, is in error, as the Germans would hardly
have used this alleged incident of mass murdering Jews outside
of Auschwitz. in an effort to "build up the morale", or induce
German citiaens to believe in the imminent appearance of "mystery weapons".
The fact is that Jackson spoke in a voice dripping with sarcasm,
and it is very clear that he for one believed the reports.  He was
prepared to believe anything he was told....similar to Chuck Feree,
SHAEF, and Lord Russell of Liverpool, who would have done
better to form a rock group rather than write the embarassing trash
which once duped half the world.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:37 PST 1996
Article: 83316 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:07:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <19961201194200.OAA23086@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dvdthomas@aol.com
>  wrote:
>  
>  >Charles Power wrote:
>  >
>  >>...assholes....jackass....loonies
>  >
>  >My earlier question about how reasonable the responses would be was, of
>  >course, rhetorical.  And the rhetoric predictable.
>  
>  What is predictable is that you should pick out the one disrespectful
>  response out of three responses and characterize it as typical of the
>  responses. That is what we in the rhetoric biz call a category error:
>  mistaking the part for the whole.
>  
>  Meanwhile, Mr. Bellinger cleared his nostrils on the newsgroup some
>  100+ times yesterday (with a series of snappy retorts on the order of
>  "I know you are, but what am I?"), and *we* are expected to give
>  dispassionate replies to his one respectful message. I'll leave it as
>  an excerise for you to detect your second category error.
>  
>  And I shall leave it to our readers to consider the disrespectful
>  sneer implied by your rhetorical question and its "predictability."
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I see you have chosen to single me out for your criticisms.  The
fact is, if I am treated with respect, I would treat you with respect
as well.  You have done your share of insulting and ridiculing people
on alt revisionism, and now have the gall to act as if your sensibilities
are outraged.  Have you no shame?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:38 PST 1996
Article: 83318 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: never trust a confession
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:12:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <32a1a657.19393742@news.gte.net> - ec 1996 15:41:12 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>On 30 Nov 1996 02:46:11 GMT, weinecks@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria
>  :>Weineck) wrote:
>  :>
>  :>>That's why photographs are so handy.
>  :>
>  :>	There are no photographs of people being gassed as you are aware.
>  :>There are no photographs that even come close to documenting people
>  :>being gassed.  The few pictures we have of people in the camps when in
>  :>normal operation and not towards the end of the war show nothing
>  :>"inhumane" about their treatment.  
>  
>  There are no photographs of the Battle of Hastings.  Therefore, it never
>  happened.
>  There are no photographs of the War of the Roses.  Therefore, it never
>  happened.
>  There are no photographs of George Washington.  Therefore, he never existed.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Try this one:  

There is no forensic evidence to prove that people 
were gassed by the Nazis.

There was no evidence to prove Lizzie Bordon killed
her parents, so she went free.

Anyway, how is it possible to take a photograph of an
event that in all likelihood never happened?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:39 PST 1996
Article: 83349 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 1 Dec 1996 20:55:22 GMT
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   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  In article <57qe2j$iis@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
  In order to dispel the either accidental or intentional confusion 
  surrounding one of my previous posts on Himmler's alleged 
  speech at Posen, I would like to clarify:
  [snip]
  
  What I am questioning and what I have always questioned is
  the authenticity of the soound recording which was allegedly 
  taken of the speech in question. 
  
  This has been discussed in the past, i believe Matt Giwer
  made similar statements.  
  
  A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:
  
    Himmler's Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
    to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser 
    (whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
    the costs of the analysis.
  
  Are you game?
  
  - Brian
  
  

I am not playing games.  The recording should have been subjected to
analysis years ago.....However, what will this prove?  A clever interpolator,
using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
the tape....that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
guilty party would confess to the deed....

All they needed to have done is make a copy of a copy or an original
on the same duplicating machines and then insert the clever damning
comments on to the second machine.  The poor quality sound
 recordings never were used
as conclusive proof even at the kangaroo court of Nuremberg.  What
one can only do here, it seems, is use logic to evaluate what we have been
provided with and the circumstances surrounding the whole event.  This
I have done.

.I personally know of a case where
a Jewish American, working with staff to compile evidence for the Holocaust,
deliberately doctored film clips received from the Soviet Union after the war
in order to incriminate the Germans.  The man will not admit to the deed publicly,
however, for obvious reasons.

rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:40 PST 1996
Article: 83351 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten
Date: 1 Dec 1996 20:44:56 GMT
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   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
   Ibokor wrote:
  
  As I recall, you claimed that in your French-German
  dictionary, there was no mention of extermination;
  in connection with Ausrottung and that it is
  false and misleading to translate Ausrottung
  into English as extermination.
  
  When I checked the Larousse dictionary in a bookshop
  in Freiburg im Breisgau in September this year, I
  found, as I posted, that ausrotten was rendered into
  French as extirper, exterminer;.
  
  I then asked you, Monsieur, to explain the difference
  in meanings between the French verb exterminer
  and the English verb to exterminate.
  
  To this date, your response has not appeared at this site.
  
    I've claim several times that I found dictionnaries were 2 words,
  extirper or exterminer were given, without any specification for
  the livings. In other dictionnaries it seems that such a specification
  is given. How many times will I have to repeat it? You state that my
  claim was that in a french-german dictionnary there was no mention of
  the word 'exterminer', but you don't give any reference to a specific
  post for that. This is simply because I never said that. Is it enought
  or will I have to make this clarification in 3 months again?
  
  
  

I will humbly jump in on this little debate, if I may.  Ausrottung does
indeed mean to exterminate or wipe out in German....A German
might use the term in relation to the Native Americans....wird ausgerottet....
being wiped out.....it also means to "uproot", specifically in relation to
plants and so on.....when referring to actions which result in the wiping out
of communities, such as the German village of Nemmersdorf, the expression
ausgettotet is and was used.  However, it may also be used with a "qualifier",
such as "Ausschaltung" which means exclusion.  Himmler included this expression
along with ausrottung in his alleged Posen speech.  Specifically, it could refer
to the wiping out of homogeneous communities within a larger community....
thus, the Jews could have been ausgeottet in the east, during the partisan
warfare conducted there, yet this would not imply that the WHOLE of Jewry
had been wiped out.....nor would it even mean that all the Jews of the East
were wiped out-which they weren't. Simply saying that someone is going
to wipe people out does not prove that they did....The German civilians mentioned
at Nemmersdorf were certainly ausgerottet, and we have complete documentation
to prove it.  Without proof, as in many of the most blatant accusations in the
Holocaust, the use of "ausrottung" would amount to nothing more than empty
threats and blustering.   Does this help?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:41 PST 1996
Article: 83352 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg "cite"
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:03:58 GMT
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 Ephraim Nussbaum  writes:
  
  On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:14:23 -0500, Ephraim Nussbaum
  nussbaum@silly.com> wrote:
  
  the pure evil Kurt Stele again lied:
  
     to which kurt stele replied:
 
  Ooooh!  I'm pure evil.  
  
 "Muah hah hah hah hah."
 
     thus demonstrating that he thinks of himself as
     a villain in batman or some other children's adventure.
  
      But he is a real villain, not a fictional one. His posts
      are lies calculated to do the most harm possible.
      He often closes with:
  
  At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
  charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
  "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
  trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
  1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.
  
      And no reputable historian (or any one else) ever did.
  
      Now Stele knows that this was not ever a serious belief,
>      that was once accepted but now abandoned. It was simply a
>      question put to a witness. This is intended distortion
>      for the purpose of making the accepted facts of the 
>      holocaust seem rediculous. Logic is just the opposite. the       
>      story of this device was never accepted because it is
>      fanciful and there is no evidence for its actuality. kind of     
>      adds credence to the facts that WERE accepted.
>  
>      Though this is explained by various posters every few
>      times (thus showing him to be a liar), He
>      continues to repost it. He doesn't care that most people
>      will see him for what he is, as long as he can reach
>      a select few.
>  
>  at one point Jean-Francois Beaulieu commented:
>  
>  >>  I read most of it. This doesn't tell me who wrote that
>  >>  document.   Jackson claimed
>  >>  that he had a document in the hands. So this document wasn't
>  >>  saying the truth, and it still leave the question: who wrote
>  >>  it? Where did he find this document? 
>  
>       Yes, those are interesting questions.
>       
>       Historians, and I personally, would be curious as
>       to where this document originated. But
>       that doesn't change the fact that your friend the
>       pure evil Kurt Stele distorted the story.
>       This was done deliberately only for the purpose
>       of doing harm. This is evil for its own sake
>       which is why I referred to him as I did.
>    
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
No. YOU have distorted this issue.  Jackson most certainly DID
believe and claim that this accusation was true-and it was believed
at the time.  You might want to check the inane writings of Lord
Russell of Liverpool, who repeats most of the ludicrous accusations
against the Germans in his book "Scourge of the Swastika", as 
if they are gospel truth.

 The
most idiotic tales were invented AND believed for decades and irresponsibly
bandied about, and now you and other Holocaust devotees say that no
one ever believed it because you know how fanciful and ridiculous the
accusations were and are-and the sad thing is that millions of human
beings were virtually brainwashed into believing this tripe, so that the allies
could justify their numerous crimes against the German people, as well as
justifying the unjust death sentences meted out to hundreds of German
nationals at the various IMT's.  The Holocaust is crumbling....a house built
of sand is doomed to collapse.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:41 PST 1996
Article: 83354 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg "cite"
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:05:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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 Ephraim Nussbaum  writes:
  
  On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:14:23 -0500, Ephraim Nussbaum
  nussbaum@silly.com> wrote:
  
  the pure evil Kurt Stele again lied:
  
     to which kurt stele replied:
 
  Ooooh!  I'm pure evil.  
  
 "Muah hah hah hah hah."
 
     thus demonstrating that he thinks of himself as
     a villain in batman or some other children's adventure.
  
      But he is a real villain, not a fictional one. His posts
      are lies calculated to do the most harm possible.
      He often closes with:
  
  At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
  charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
  "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
  trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
  1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.
  
      And no reputable historian (or any one else) ever did.
  
      Now Stele knows that this was not ever a serious belief,
>      that was once accepted but now abandoned. It was simply a
      question put to a witness. This is intended distortion
      for the purpose of making the accepted facts of the 
      holocaust seem rediculous. Logic is just the opposite. the       
      story of this device was never accepted because it is
      fanciful and there is no evidence for its actuality. kind of     
      adds credence to the facts that WERE accepted.
  
      Though this is explained by various posters every few
      times (thus showing him to be a liar), He
      continues to repost it. He doesn't care that most people
      will see him for what he is, as long as he can reach
      a select few.
  
  at one point Jean-Francois Beaulieu commented:
  
  I read most of it. This doesn't tell me who wrote that
  document.   Jackson claimed
  that he had a document in the hands. So this document wasn't
  saying the truth, and it still leave the question: who wrote
  it? Where did he find this document? 
  
       Yes, those are interesting questions.
       
       Historians, and I personally, would be curious as
       to where this document originated.

Where the rest of the phoney documents originated, no doubt.

 But
       that doesn't change the fact that your friend the
      pure evil Kurt Stele distorted the story.
       This was done deliberately only for the purpose
       of doing harm. This is evil for its own sake
       which is why I referred to him as I did.

It seems that the only story which was distorted was the Holocaust.
    
  
  
No. YOU have distorted this issue.  Jackson most certainly DID
believe and claim that this accusation was true-and it was believed
at the time.  You might want to check the inane writings of Lord
Russell of Liverpool, who repeats most of the ludicrous accusations
against the Germans in his book "Scourge of the Swastika", as 
if they are gospel truth.

 The
most idiotic tales were invented AND believed for decades and irresponsibly
bandied about, and now you and other Holocaust devotees say that no
one ever believed it because you know how fanciful and ridiculous the
accusations were and are-and the sad thing is that millions of human
beings were virtually brainwashed into believing this tripe, so that the allies
could justify their numerous crimes against the German people, as well as
justifying the unjust death sentences meted out to hundreds of German
nationals at the various IMT's.  The Holocaust is crumbling....a house built
of sand is doomed to collapse.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:42 PST 1996
Article: 83355 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation'
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:06:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  In article <57nlv2$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  >>  In article <56tinc$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  >I wonder why Mr. Keren wasted our time with comments
>  >>  >from a man who admitted that he had only been present
>  >>  >at two mass executions?
>  >>  
>  >>  What logic is this?
>  [snip]
>  >>  Or perhaps you think one witness should prove every
>  >>  event of the Holocaust?
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >What I am saying is that one execution, if true, does NOT
>  >prove your case.  Simple enough?
>  
>  Yes, fine.  So what? 
>  
>  No one believes that a single extermination proves the entire
>  Nazi Holocaust.  If Dr. Keren believed this, why would he 
>  produce so many other documents detailing mass extermination?
>  
>  Brian Harmon  
>  ------
>  Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive
>  physical evidenceinto a coherent and unified history. 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Are you claiming to speak for Dr. Jekyll Keren?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:43 PST 1996
Article: 83356 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:17:17 GMT
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   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  In article <57nm5q$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
  [re: a document posted by Dr. Keren, snipped]
  
This is an obvious fake, as there is a reference to the Wannsee
Conference, which had nothing to do with exterminating human
beings.  Better luck next time.
  
 I replied:
  
 Rubbish.  

  Hans Frank, The Governer-General of Poland, made explicit 
  reference to both the extermination of Jews and the upcoming
  Wansee conference in a speech on December 16th, 1941:

   ... One way or another, I will tell you that quite openly, 
  we must finish off the Jews.[etc]

Yes...what of it?  This coulod mean anything.  Harsh words were
spoken by all the various nationalities before, during, and after the
war.  I suggest you access Deja News and read my old post:
"Let's be frank about Frank."
  
  rblackmore then retorted:
  
  And this is your "proof"?  A comment from the bombasitc frank,
who had no authority to issue orders to either the Gestapo,
Security Police, or OrdnungsPolizei?

  I see you have totally missed the point yet again, mr. blackmore.  
  I'll explain so even you can understand. I did not insist that this
  speech was 'proof' of the holocaust.  it merely corroborates two things:


Really, Mr. Harmon?-rb

  1) that the Nazis planned to exterminate the Jews of Europe;

Are you saying that Frank had the authority to speak for every Nazi
in Europe, or that he was influential enough to dictate policies?  Is that
what you are asking us to believe?  Are you also asking us to believe
that Frank was aware of a policy to exterminate the Jews in a physical
sense?

 2) that
  the Wansee conference planned this extermination.


The Wahnsinn Wannsee Conference planned no such thing.
  
  In case you are still confused, let me sketch the history of
  this discussion for you:

I am not confused.
  
  Danny Keren posted a document about Brack, who instructed
  that personnel from the t4 euthanasia program would report
  to him on implementing the decisions made at the Wansee 
  conference. 

And the source for this document?  Who discovered it, when, and
where?  And the names of the persons who processed it?  You see, I
am very wary of your documents for good reasons.
  
  You insisted that the document must be a fake because it
  claims that the program of extermination was outlined at
  the Wansee conference.  
  
  I then provided a speech from Hans Frank, the man 
  in charge of Nazi occupied Poland, where he explicitly
  makes reference to exterminating the Jews and the Wansee
  conference _before the conference took place_.

Well, then your document must certainly be a fake, as Frank knew
nothing about the details of the Conference before they were discussed.
Even Eichmann allegedly had to take notes of a more or less "free
discussion"......Unless you attribute to Frank the qualities of a 
Rasputin or Svengali---or is that coming next?
  
  You claimed Dr. Keren's document was a forgery.  I produced
  a speech that said basically the same thing with respect to 
 Wansee.  Will you now insist that Frank's speech is a forgery 
  as well?
  
  Sadly, you can't wish all this evidence away.

Nor can you wish something as proof.-rb
 





From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:44 PST 1996
Article: 83357 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the screams and groans of the people died away'
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:18:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Hauptschrfuehrer Gustav Labs
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison gas, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 87]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>  Then Burstinger, who had reappeared from the cellar passage,
>  came up to me. He ordered me to start the engine and to leave
>  it running for about twelve minutes. I did what I was told, 
>  and a minute later I heard terrible screams and groans coming
>  from the interior. I got frightened and jumped out of the
>  driver's cab. I realized that the exhaust had been directed 
>  to the interior of the van to kill the people inside. Bothmann*
>  yelled at me, "Have you gone mad?". He told me to get back
>  behind the wheel. I did so and waited. I didn't dare to do
>  anything, because I was afraid of Bothmann. Gradually, after 
>  some minutes, the screams and groans of the people died away.
>  
>  * SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hans Bothmann.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Mr. Keren only quotes from the most impartial sources.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:45 PST 1996
Article: 83386 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Make way, you German swine!"
Date: 2 Dec 1996 09:32:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Here is a newspaper report on the American occupation
at Aachen, after the city fell.....

Aachen under the Eisenhower knout
__________________________

Jews and Emigrants Terrorize the City
Furniture and Valuables Seized;  "Make
Way, you German Swine!"

"In the ruins of the town of Aachen, taken by the
Americans after a bitter weeks-long struggle, the
remains of German life are being systematically
beaten down by the Eisenhower reign of terror.
As previously in the western border villages of the 
Aachen area, groups of Jews and emigrants have 
appeared in the wake of the American occupation
forces.  Their sole function is to terrorize the few
Germans who are still in the town and to brutally
exterminate all memory of their previous life.

The population are living as veritable pariahs.  
Only for the Americans is any electricity, gas,
or water available.  The few homes that were
not destroyed were requisitioned.  Eyewitnesses
who succeeded in getting through to the German
lines report that the removal of furniture and valuables
began immediately.  Economic life is completely dead.
Such supplies as were still in the town were requisitioned
by the American troops.  The people are enduring unspeakable
hunger, and American officers and men tell them laighingly to
go and forage for something to fill their bellies.

Anton Forbach, 46, one of the few who have escaped since
the capture of the town, made the followinf statement about
his experiences in Aachen:

"I tried to get myself something to eat, but all the shops were
closed or destroyed.  The American soldiers paid no attention
to me.  They had enough to do getting themselves "souvenirs".
But one Jewish officer who came up to me forced me into the
street with the words, "Make way, you German swine!", and
took a crack at me with a riding whip.  In the ruins of the
Cathedral I saw a group of drunken soldiers.  Some of them
were carving their names on the wall with bayonets......"

From:  Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, 1954


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:46 PST 1996
Article: 83438 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Old Man Winter
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:57:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <57ucmr$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Here is the treatment a respected and elderly 
German Industrialist received from his beneficent
American captors:

While searching through the old man's hunting
lodge, American ransackers discovered some
toothpaste and and a few old shells.  Using this
as the pretext, they compelled the old ,man to 
do exhausting manual labor in the snow, clearing
roads.  At night he was placed into a damp, freezing
jail cell.  One evening he feebly protested that the air
in the cell was very foul, so the Americans considerately
smashed the windows and left him locked in the tiny 
cell, freezing, in the middle of winter.

Source:  The Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.38.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:46 PST 1996
Article: 83455 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Date: 30 Nov 1996 12:24:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <57p91b$egl@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <57f85g$kg6@news1.ucsd.edu>, fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano
>  Ledgister) wrote:
>  
>  > Sara aka Perrrfect (schwartz@infinet.com) wrote:
>  > : In article <57ce6d$7m3@news1.ucsd.edu>, fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano
>  > : Ledgister) wrote:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > : > 
>  > : > This leads me to the basic question about the blood libel:
>  > : > What were Jews supposed to have eaten before there were any
>  > : > Christian babies?
>  > 
>  > : A little stuffed cabbage and some cool spring water.
>  > :  
>  > : Just ask Mel Brooks.
>  > :  
>  > : Sara
>  > 
>  > Which film?
>  > 
>  
>  No film, it's from the 2013 Year Old Man (LP, CD, etc.)
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
I thought it was from "The Hitler Rap".


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:47 PST 1996
Article: 83456 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get undressed. You're to be disinfected!
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:37:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <57oa6i$57u@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a1517a.18129521@news.spry.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd33-025.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 29 Nov 1996 18:31:55 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

..
>  
>  
>  >Look who's calling someone stupid-Danny and his porno collection.
>  >Now, as to your comment-read again-"We saw some SS men, Green
>  >uniforms, black uniforms,"
>  >Another liar, just like you.  A liar who quotes liars.
>  
>  No. Wrong again. Just another lying, lowlife, scumbag, nazi
>  apologist. (Yawn) How unsurprising.
>  
>  
>>>>
How unsurprising that you respond the way you do.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 06:49:48 PST 1996
Article: 83474 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:23:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <57ue6q$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a22bd9.28869953@news.gte.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   PJO@is.back (Leprechan) writes:
  On Sun, 01 Dec 1996 14:32:29 -0500, Amazon 
  wrote:
  


>  	That issue has to be defined much more narrowly than that.  There
>  are atheists who claim they are jewish by tribal definition of
>  membership.  There are those who claim it be religion only and have no
>  mother/child relationship to anyone who ever lived in Palestine. 


The State of Israel defines a Jew as a child born of a Jewish mother. 




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 11:38:00 PST 1996
Article: 83504 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "A Heart of Stone"
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:48:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <57ufmf$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Johann Cerfontaine, the man the Jewish American
soldiers dispossessed from his home and lifelong
business, along with his family, leaves this disturbing
account of how he pleaded with the Jewish officer,
Edward Springer,  to have compassion on his family:

"It is not merely heartbreaking to have everything taken
away from me after all I have endured.  The events of the
past few days leave me in a state of complete confusion...
Since I recovered from the first shock, I have done all I
could, considering my impotent position, to reason with
Captain Springer.....Captain Springer is as coldly brutal
as Captain Sadoul and Herr Nair, who seems to be a sort 
of Gestapo working with him.....

The second time I visited Captain Springer, after he made
an outcast beggar of me, I entered his-that is to say, my-
office in the most respectful manner and asked if I could
look for something in the safe.  He gave me the keys, and I
think I surprised him when I took out a tiny, half-finished sock
on needles stuck into a ball of pink wool, on which my wife
had been busy during the bombardment when she was
camping in the air-raid cellar.

I said:  "May I remove this?-It is for the child."  The meaning
of my symbolic act- that he was ruining the life not only of my-
self but of innocent little ones-escaped him altogether.  He merely
nodded and went back to his writing.

Since then I have sent my wife with the children to make the
simple humanitarian appeal in a more direct fashion.  She was
unable to keep herself from weeping unashamedly before him,
and when the children saw it, they wept also.  But none of this
made any difference,  He has a heart of stone......

Captain Springer has today put a man on the door of my building-
a Communist, of all things in the world-with instructions to keep me
and all members of my family out."


From:  Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.44.




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 11:38:01 PST 1996
Article: 83505 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:51:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57ufst$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57t9ar$2ju@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) wrote:
>  : In message <57nonm$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  : :> "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
>  : :>national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
>  : :>thus giving room for our own people." 
>  : :>
>  : :>(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)
>  : 
>  : Readers will once again notice that Mr. Blackmore, rather than pursue the
>  : debate he started, realizes he has been shown the fool--again--and has to
>  : resort to posting sayings from non-existent Rabbis.
>  
>  We now have two quotes from "Rabbi Reichorn," saying almost exactly
>  the same thing twenty-one years apart.  Windy son-of-a-bitch, wasn't
>  he?
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
Just like you, who keeps repeating the same nonsense over
and over, even though you are proven wrong on practically
every occasion.  BTW, are you definitively saying that Rabbi
Reichorn never existed?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 11:38:02 PST 1996
Article: 83506 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:28:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <57uegn$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32A24504.46F7@apci.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   steve griff  writes:
>  Kurt Stele wrote:
>  > 
>  > On 30 Nov 1996 00:03:39 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > >
>  > >What is OSS-the Office of Stupid Shits?
>  > 
>  > Rather the Office of Soviet Stooges.
>  > 
>  > Kurt Stele
>  > 
>  
>  It's a wonder you even partially understand history.
>  
>  The Office of Strategic Services (OSS) was established on June 13, 1942 as 
>  an operating agency of the U.S. Government under the direction and 
>  supervision of the Joint Cheifs of Staff.  Among its responsibilities were: 
>  Psychological warfare, intelligence gathering, and progressive and orderly 
>  development of operating procedures and the characteristics of special 
>  weapons and special equipment for the special operations not assigned, or 
>  pertinent to, other US Government agencies.
>  
>>>>
We both knew that.  How can you be so naive?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 11:38:03 PST 1996
Article: 83507 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 2 Dec 1996 11:50:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <57ufpe$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57t92t$2ju@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd40-175.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  Sara aka Perrrfect (schwartz@infinet.com) wrote:
>  : In article <57nn4e$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : 
>  : 
>  : 
>  : > When are you going to admit your affiliation with a synagogue?
>  : > Or don't you have the cajones, pendejo?
>  :  
>  : Mr./Ms. Blackmore/Belling/Bellinger, not content to insult people in
>  : English, has now moved to elementary Spanish.
>  :  
>  : Did you learn these words on the subway?
>  
>  No problem, Sara.  As we know, Mr. Belling has over 40,000 books--
>  one of them MUST be a Spanish-English dictionary.
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
That's 40-65,000.  If I didn't know better, I would think you are envious.
By the way, I speak 3 languages besides English.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 13:59:30 PST 1996
Article: 83539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore lies again  (Was Re: Jewish author on Germany)
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:16:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <581u9r$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a30252.861897@news.spry.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
  On 2 Dec 1996 11:24:45 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <57qq9m$r1p@news.enter.net> - yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
  writes:
  
   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes
  In message <57m8ac$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com> -  1996 08:53:32 GMT writes:
  
Badly.  Seems they were all at your house.  Hope you bought 
enough butter to butter your bagel.
  
  That the best you can do?
  
	Tell him that you a pre-pubescent boy in search of a 13 year old girl.  
That might sweeten him up a bit.
  
  By God, for all the rubbish that transpires in this newsgroup, all the
 unsubstantiated BS, *that* particular one has been supported by a reference to
  the DejaNews location.  Why has Mr. Blackmore not explained why he was posting
  in the alt.arcadia newsgroup searching for teenaged boys?
  
  I'll tell you why:  because I didn't, silly man.  Why are you
wasting people's time with this nonsense?  If this is the only
way you can respond to my posts, I feel sorry for you.
  
  Of course you lie, Mr. Bellinger. Badly, as usual, but you lie.
  
  DejaNews reveals the following:
  
  
http://xp8.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=3966157&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=849543915
.29413&hitnum=1
>  
>  Subject:      look and you shall see...
>  From:         rblackmore@juno.com
>  Date:         1996/07/29
>  Message-Id:   <4thi81$rlr@juliana.sprynet.com>
>  Organization: Sprynet News Service
>  Newsgroups:   acadia.chat
>  
>  hello ? antone out there 12-14 e-mail me . i am thirteen and ...
>  well
>  if you e-mail me at jbelling@sprynet.com 
>  
>  you can find out more about me i am a female.
>  
>  And from your jbelling@sprynet.com id comes the following:
>  
>  
http://xp8.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=2172177&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=849543805
.26554&hitnum=0
>  
>  Subject:      sex
>  From:         jbelling@sprynet.com
>  Date:         1996/07/21
>  Message-Id:   <4ss34r$1u0@juliana.sprynet.com>
>  Organization: Sprynet News Service
>  Newsgroups:   alt.teens
>  
>  
>  why is everything [almost] about sex ? e- mail me sometime 14/F i
>  always write back
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
And you really think that I wrote that?  Are you really that
naive, Mr. McFee?  I don't think so, but go again and prove
me wrong and tell me you believe it.  If so, I think I have found
the reason why you post some of the things you do on alt revisionism.
BTW, the remark about sex seems to be opposed to a discussion
concerning the same.  And now, if you really must know who wrote it,
it was my niece,  who happened to be visiting our home at the time.
Isn't it peculiar that the only posts from a teenage girl all come from the
same short time period with no additional posts afterwards?
However, I must warn you-she just might be visiting over the coming
holidays, so perhaps you will have more grist for your mill.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 15:26:35 PST 1996
Article: 83559 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!newsrelay.netins.net!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:45:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <5823i6$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <57nk0n$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article ,
  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

  [snip]
  
You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
 foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
 overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.
 
  Poor potty training? 




>  > From a man who cleans toilets in a synagogue?
>  
>  Mr. Belling, cleaning toilets in a house of God can hardly be deemed
>  unworthy.

You are so humble.  One can read it in your posts.

 So if I were to clean them, I would hardly be ashamed of it. 

  
  Besides, it sure beats licking Nazi boots. How's that tongue of yours?
  Still sore from getting stepped on? Next time you might try asking Mr.
  Smith to stand still....

Why would I ask 
Mr. Smith anything of the sort, since I never see him?




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:39 PST 1996
Article: 83566 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:10:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <58250a$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <57nmet$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <32965ff9.66428812@news.txdirect.net>, hmazal@txdirect.net
 (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
  
  [snip]
  
 The best proof that _anything_  that Dr. Keren posts is true  is that
 Mr. Blackmore denies it.
 
 Since his unfortunate return to this newsgroup we have been regaled
 with countless one-liners.  His 145,000  book library must have
 vanished like a thief in the night!
>  > >  
>  > >  Or perhaps is because Mr. Belling's "library" consists of _comic_ book?
>  > >  That might help explain his "countless one-liners." One is what one
>  > >  reads....
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > If they are comic books, they are doubtlessly more informative than
>  > the sources you rely upon, which aren't even good enough for 
>  > comic books.
>  
>  Even if Mr. Belling's lame reparte, were true (which it most definetely is
>  not) the gentle reader would certainly be unable to tell, as Mr. Belling
>  has to date failed to post anything more informative (of Mr. Belling's
>  character) than a pack of transparant Nazi proganda and lies. 

Not all your colleagues would agree with you.




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:40 PST 1996
Article: 83569 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:47:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <5823kj$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd83-052.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <57oa09$57u@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > You are wrong again, as usual.  this is getting to be a habit with you.
>  > The use of poison gas was initiated by the French.
>  
>  Again, your source for this fallacious assumption is, Mr. Belling? What, I
>  can't hear you... the cat got your tongue? 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
I gave you the source in a previous post.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:40 PST 1996
Article: 83570 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Some bodies fell out'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:07:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 151
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   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  In article <57nlrj$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
     brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  
  Daniel Keren wrote:
    
    Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
   gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered
    [snip]
   
  Mr. Blackmore then responded with a long list of demands:
  
  Now, I would ask Mr. Keren to give us a brief history of the man
  who made these comments.  If he was ever charged with crimes
  himself, or if he "plea bargained" and I would also ask for confirm-
ation of this incident from other sources. 
  
  I replied:
  
    Such demands, Mr. Blackmore! Are you incapable of researching 
   this yourself, or simply unwilling?
  
  Rblackmore retorted:
  
  Your friends made the accusation.  now they must convince the
  skeptics.
  
  Dr. Keren provided you with a testimony, complete with 
  full references.  You then _speculate_ that he said this
  as some sort of 'plea bargain' to save his own skin.  
  
  If you believe this, research it yourself.
  
  I continued:
  
    While we're on the subject of demands, why don't we get down
    to brass tacks on some issues that you and I have discussed?

  I remember quite distinctly you promised to provide proof
  for the following assertsion of yours:
  
  1) Kremer was not responsible for the conditions at Bergen-Belsen,
    rather he did what he could to help the inmates.

This was certainly supplied in depth and I will not go into the
subject again.  I refer the reader to previous posts on this subject.
Research them on Deja News.  Are you really that dense, Mr. Harmon?
  
  Actually, it was not supplied in depth at all.  You insisted
  that Kremer could not have supplied food to the inmates, 
  despite the fact that food was availabel.  You insisted that
  Kremer could not supply water to the inmates, despite the
  fact that the British used equipment _in the camp_ to supply
  it.  You insisted that Kremer did what he could to help, 
  despite teh fact that starving, sick inmates were forced to
  work without food or water.

You obviously never bothered to read or confirm anything I wrote.
I'd advise you to reread and research.
  
  
     The only evidence you have provided for this assertion is Kremer's
     own testimony. 

Untrue.  
  
  I stand corrected. You insisted that the river was polluted, 
  and that the British were able to supply the camp with water
  only after they used 'filtering apparatuses' that Kremer did
 not have.
  
  Your citation for this claim was Matt Giwer, who simply
  made it up.

I later expanded on this theme considerably and referred to british
authoritites which confirmed my speculation.  I advise more research on your
part.
  
  
 He is contradicted by the testimony of his
     subordinates and soldiers who liberated the camp.  Additionally, 
     the fact that inmates were forced to work without food or water
     also makes things look bad for Kremer.

Work?  what?  Bury bodies which had died due to infectious disease?
  
  By forcing the sickest and the weakest people, i.e. the
  inmates to do all the work, thereby insuring that they would
  drop like flies?  interesting logic.

This is certainly not true.  It was stated during the trial that the weakest 
were NOT compelled to work.
  
I won't debate this any further.  it has already been debunked.
  
  Declaring victory and running away, are we?

I advise you to pull all the old posts relating to this subject and
read carefully.
 
  2) Auschwitz testimonies discussing mass gassings are unreliable.
     
     The only evidence you have provided is your multi-part 
    'Soviet Def Comed Jam' containing your favorite allegedly
     absurd eyewitness testimonies.  These documents, oddly enough,
     make no mention of Auschwitz at all, which leads me to wonder
     how they can be relevant.

Do you confirm or deny the contents of the reports?
  
  What reports? the snippets of eyewitness testimony taken
  out of context that hs nothing to do with Auschwitz?

Mr. Stele posted an excerpt from the Nuremberg charges concerning
Jackson's charge that thousands of Jews had been vaporized outside
of Auschwitz.

No, they are not taken out of context.  i again invite you to research 
before you make comments.
  
  Quite frankly, I don't care about those testimonies. 
  What i was expecting from you was your evidnce that
  _Auschwitz_ testimony was unreliable.

I intend to get into that, but as of date, no one is paying me
for my research dervices.
  
So is shooting them, as the Nazis found out.  Why do you think
>  >>  they then constructed the large industrial killing centers of
>  >>  Auschwitz, Treblinka, and so on?
>  >
>  >Prove that these were killing installations.  why is there no
>  >forensic evidence to prove your claims?
>  
>  Forensic evidence? You mean like the experiments carried out
>  by the Institute for Forensic Research in Crackow showing
>  cyanide in the homicidal gas chambers and not elsewhere?

No, sir,  Evidence of gas was found in many areas.  this evidence of
yours, when looked at objectively, does not suffice as proof of your claims.
Evidence if gas was found in the kommandants quarters.  Does this mean he and
his family were gassed?
>  
>  Why is there no forensic evidence proving that Dresden 
>  was bombed?

Of course your question is irrelevant and ridiulous and mean to
provoke and you and everyone else knows it. Do some research,
Mr. Harmon.




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:41 PST 1996
Article: 83571 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:08:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  In article <57ss0o$pai@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  
>  >Are you claiming to speak for Dr. Jekyll Keren?
>  
>  And this is a man who once whined about the use 
>  of insults in this forum?
>  
>  hypocrite.
>  
>  - Brian
>  
>  
>>>>
Look who's calling the kettle black.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:42 PST 1996
Article: 83579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:19:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
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References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Letter from SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe to Reich security office,
>  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
>  Off., 1946, Vol. I, p. 1001]
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives
>  weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the
>  Security Service of white Ruthenia. The three S-vans which are there
>  are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another
>  S-van (five tons). At the same time I request the shipment of twenty
>  gas hoses for the three S-vans on hand since the ones on hand are leaky
>  already.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
The only "Difficulty" here is believing in these fairy tale
gas vans.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:43 PST 1996
Article: 83581 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:19:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <57nmol$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
 chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) wrote:
 
On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:32:59 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
Alstine) wrote:

In article <32941ef8.257510543@news.micron.net>,
 kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

Considering that Hitler's "Euthanasia" program killed the mentally
disabled without their (or their relatives') consent, clearly evidences
the difference of between humane euthanasia of the terminally ill where
the terminally ill _choose_ death forthemselves.

No, if you read the recent book "Death and Deliverance" you will find infor
which shows that it was the pleadings of parents and victims which prompted Hitler 
to sign the law into effect.  The first cases which prompted the law were the pleas
of a family named Krause-both parents and grandmother pleaded for euthanasia for
the child-who was somehow hopelessly deformed, and had no possibility of recovery.
Another quoted case was of a man who fell into a cement mixer and was living in
agony every day of his life.  it was cases such as these which prompted the law.
I see little difference in this than pulling the plug from karen Quinlan, or the activities
of Dr. Kevorkian.  however, the difference with Kevorkian is that he is acting
outside of the law.

    When the person is a ward of the state, as was the case in these
cases, relatives have no say in the legal treatment.  

Hitler's "Euthanasia" program was state sponsored murder.
 
    You folks are rather too foolish to deal with the law.  Murder is
defined in law.  Euthansia in accordance with law is not murder.
Abortion in accordance with law is not murder.
 
 Was the euthanasia a legal treatment ? Then, why did they hide the
 real cause of the death to the relatives, trying to keep the secret ?
  
  The Hitler's text wasn't a law. How could Clemens August and many
  others lodge complaints for murder if a real law existed ?
  
  

 It was law.  The law was later rescinded.
  
  And your cite for this is, Mr. Belling? What, don't have one? How
  unsurprising, especially given the following:
  
>  "With the collaboration of Dr. Herbert Linden, the specialist in affairs
>  concerning the mentally ill at the Interior Ministry and a member of the
>  Reich committee for 'children euthanasia,' Bouhler and Brandt put together
>  a list of physicians whom they considered suitable, on a basis of their
>  opinions and their professional qualifications, to take part in the
>  proposed operation....
>  
>  "Bouhler and Brandt had probably benn choesn because they belonged to the
>  Fu"hrer's Chancellery, so that Hitler's private chancellery and not some
>  public administration would be responsible for the messures to be adopted.
>  It would thus be much easier to keep these measures secret, as they would
>  be outside state control." 
>  
>  "...The proposed methods of killing were explained to the physicians, and
>  it was made clear that Hitler refused- for political reasons -to make the
>  measures law, and that absolute secrecy was required. The physicians were,
>  however, given assurances that they would be safe from any criminal
>  prosecution."  (Kogon, _Nazi Mass Murder_, p.15.) 
>   Like I said: Hitler's "Euthanasia" program was state sponsored murder.


No.  It was law for a brief period.
The law was rescinded after numerous complaints lodged by the
public and Bishop Galen, as well as famed German war ace, Molders.
Source:  Vorsicht!  Faelschung!  Munich.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:43 PST 1996
Article: 83583 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I could have danced all Night
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:51:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <57ub31$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
 Corporal Schwartz wrote of how a blonde Jewish
 girl was onve asked to dance by none other than
 Hans Frank.  Commenting in 1945, Cprl. Schwartz
 wrote:

 "The man she danced with was Hans Frank, who
 as Governor of Poland during the war massacred
 millions of Poles and obliterated the Warsaw Ghetto."
 
 Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, p. 28.
 
 Of course neither of Schwartz's allegations was
 true.  He must have attended the same SHAEF
 meetings as Chuckles Feree,
  
  Ad hominems do not an argument make, Mr. Belling. However, I suppose as
  that ad hominems are all you seem to have left in you quiver, that's what
  getting painful watching you hit the same foot all the time....) 
  




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:13:44 PST 1996
Article: 83584 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:48:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 82
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References: <5803lv$ape@news.enter.net>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   The Criminal Giwer  rewrites some more history:
>  >  On 1 Dec 1996 08:38:09 GMT, brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) wrote:
>  
>  >  >>What I am questioning and what I have always questioned is
the authenticity of the soound recording which was allegedly 
taken of the speech in question. 
  
This has been discussed in the past, i believe Matt Giwer
made similar statements.  
  
A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:
 
  Himmler's Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
  to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser 
  (whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
  the costs of the analysis.
  
Are you game?
   
 	When it was discussed here about a year ago, it was stated the
 speaker had not been identified and that there was an effort to
  collect the money for a voice print identification.  
 
  	Wrong.  You claimed that the tape was a forgery.  Your first argument 
  was that tape recording had not been developed.  Then you just made the 
  blanket statement that it was not authentic.
  
    
   	Two months ago, when I repeated that year ago holohugger position,
  the holohuggers claimed that I was giving a false recounting and that
  it had been positively identified.
  
   	It has been,  
  
    	Now we have come full circle with the admission that the speaker
  has not been identified.    
  
  	There is nothing in Harmon's post that even indicates that.  The tape is 
  of a speech by Himmler.  The only ones who say otherwise are a minority of 
  deniers, principally the criminal Giwer and "blackmore."  
  
>  >  	This appears to be a variation upon the truth of the month club.  
>  
>  	The truth is the criminal Giwer claimed the tape was a forgery.  When 
>  challenged to put his assertion to a scientific test, he shut up like a clam.  The 
>  exchange is preserved in its entirety on Nizkor.  This, of course, is another reason 
>  that the criminal Giwer goes into a paranoid rage whenever he hears the URL 
>  which exposes his lies so thoroughly:
>  
>  	http://www.nizkor.org
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>  	
>  
>>>>
All rightie, then....Mr. E. claims that becuase we do not come forth 
with the hundreds of thousands of dollars to subject this recording
to detailed analysis, we are somehow in error.....Let's turn this argument
around for the sake of argument:

A tape was introduced as evidence that it is Himmler speaking at Posen.
The tape is accepted into evidence and noted.
A leading German general who worked closely with Himmler stated under
oath that he was not sure that the voice was that of Himmler.
The tape was never subjected to analysis at the time to determine if
it was authentic.
Some 45 years later it resurfaces and is now used as "proof".
Revisionists question the use of this source and the circumstances
surrounding its discovery and placing into evidence.
Now, Mr. E and his ilk expect us to pay the expensive costs of
determining whether the tape was tampered with.

Lets look at it this way now:

Jewish people have been accused by many authors of baking
blood into matzoh during the course of alleged ritual murder.
Would anyone hold it reasonable to now begin subjecting maztzoh
cakes around the world to chemical analysis?  And how much
more absurd it would be if we expected the jewish people to pay
for this task.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 17:38:39 PST 1996
Article: 83585 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:54:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <5827i0$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  Yale F. Edeiken (yawen@enter.net) wrote:
>  
>  : You have ignored the point of both the original challenge and Power's 
>  : fine post (athough it should be noted that the proposal was made by 
>  : Ken McVay for Nizkor.  I just reiterated it on the supposition that it 
>  : has never been withdrawn).
>  
>  As I recall, the original proposal (made in the heady days of Tim 
>  "newel post" McCarthy) was that the anti-revisionists would put up
>  half the money, and the revisionists would put up the other half.  The
>  anti-revisionist half was covered in a matter of days, and the 
>  revisionist half. . . well, you can guess what happened.  Sort of the
>  "Brave Sir Robin" approach, if you will.
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>  "A fly, sir, may sting a stately horse, and make him wince; but one is but an
>  insect, and the other is a horse still." -- Samuel Johnson
>  
>>>>
And a flea on a dog's ass will keep him itching.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec  3 18:19:31 PST 1996
Article: 83588 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:56:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5827ma$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a4a77d.39939756@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:


>  
>  I am certainly not outraged by your flaccid insults though I am
>  annoyed that you seem to have to post so many useless messages.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Then advise your colegues to act like ladies and gentlemen-you
included.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:39 PST 1996
Article: 83623 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:52:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <57srbq$pai@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com1 Dec 1996
>  20:55:22 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  :>  
>  :>  A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:
>  :>  
>  :>    Himmler's Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
>  :>    to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser 
>  :>    (whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
>  :>    the costs of the analysis.
>  
>  [deleted]
>  
>  :>I am not playing games.  The recording should have been subjected to
>  :>analysis years ago.....However, what will this prove?  A clever interpolator,
>  :>using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
>  :>the tape....that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
>  :>guilty party would confess to the deed....
>  
>  Exactly the slithering, whining, gutless response one would have expected from
>  a "brave" truth-seeking denier.  Thanks for confirming your moral cowardice,
>  Mr. Blackmore.  You know very well that proper analysis can eliminate any
>  possibility of interpolation, but you, like your denier colleagues, run like
>  hell when faced with the possibility of empirical analysis that you can't
>  fake.  How disgustingly predictable.
>  
>  [cowardly denier lies deleted]
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
As usual, you over- react.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:40 PST 1996
Article: 83630 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:11:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article , karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles
  R.L. Power) wrote:
  
   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
   
   Ask your friends at the synagogue.  Why ask me?  BTW, who declared
   war first-England and France, or Germany?
   
   Germany first launched its aggression against Czechoslovakia, which
   Britain and France were obligated by treaty to protect but did not,
   and then Poland, which Britain and France were obligated by treaty
   to protect, at which point they did the honorable thing. You have a
   problem with this?

OK.  Poland annexed Tschen at the same time which was also part
of Czechoslovakia, and other European countries grabbed slices of
the severed state as well.  So the British and French would have been
obligated to attack them as well.  Also, the Soviet Union invaded Poland
>from  the east, and your "honorable" friends were obligated to declare war
on them as well.  Instead, your buddies Roosevelt and Churchill simply handed
Poland over to Stalin on a silver platter at the end of the war.  And you say
that the war began over Poland's right to sovernignity?  Thats a good one, Mark.
>  > 
>  > >National News Service.  135,000. 1996.
>  > 
>  > Is this what you call a citation, Jane? I'm afraid you're going
>  > to have to repeat this course.

It's better than your Larson report citation, Dick.
>  > 
>  > >I will not do your research for you.  Look up the original reports of the
>  > >authorities in Dresden who had to dispose of the bodies.  However, that
>  > >won't do for you as it attacks your shibboleths.
>  > 
>  > I thought you were attributing your figure to some 1996 source. In 
>  > previous messages you talked about recent research. You could at 
>  > least try to be consistent with your fantasies.

As you try to be in yours?
>  > 
>  > >Oooh...the facts hurt don't they?
>  > 
>  > Oooh, I don't know. Why don't you try including a few in your
>  > postings, so we can find out?

I know you are but what am I?
>  
>  LOL!
>  
>  Oh, I suppose it's because Mr. Belling's tolerance for pain is a bit low.... 
>  
>  What a Nazi wimp.

Name caller.




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:41 PST 1996
Article: 83635 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:46:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <57nk0n$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article ,
  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

  [snip]
  
You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
 foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
 overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.
 
  Poor potty training? 

 From a man who cleans toilets in a synagogue?
 
 Mr. Belling, cleaning toilets in a house of God can hardly be deemed
 unworthy.

You are so humble.  One can read it in your posts.

 So if I were to clean them, I would hardly be ashamed of it. 

  
  Besides, it sure beats licking Nazi boots. How's that tongue of yours?
  Still sore from getting stepped on? Next time you might try asking Mr.
  Smith to stand still....

Why would I ask 
Mr. Smith anything of the sort, since I never see him?




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:42 PST 1996
Article: 83643 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:32:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <5808jq$1f48$3@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>  McFee) wrote:
>  
>  > In message <57uv6c$9q5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> - libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
>  > (william c anderson)2 Dec 1996 16:13:00 GMT writes:
>  > :>
>  > :>Mr. Blackmore's predictable response to the "Put up or shut up"
>  > :>challenge:
>  > :>
>  > :>: I am not playing games.  The recording should have been subjected to
>  > :>: analysis years ago.....However, what will this prove?  A clever
>  interpolator,
>  > :>: using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
>  > :>: the tape....that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
>  > :>: guilty party would confess to the deed....
>  > :>
>  > :>Uh-huh.  Do I hear the familiar sound of a denier backpedaling?
>  > 
>  > You hear the familiar sound of a coward slithering away.
>  > 
>  > [deleted]
>  
>  Eh? Somebody flushed the toilet?

So Mark by his implied admission will now rush to clean it. 




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:43 PST 1996
Article: 83657 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The dead would no longer be buried
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:52:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 30 Nov 1996 00:16:02 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >Is this part of the soon to be published religious book Shoah?
>  >Sounds like the Roman Martyrology to me.
>  
>  Sounds more like a lying, lowlife, scumbag, nazi apologist has
>  spent all his bullets, has nothing left in in arsenal, and is
>  reduced to spamming the newsgroup to me.
>  
>>>>
Poor obsessive neurotic Kenny....


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:43 PST 1996
Article: 83659 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:20:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <57ufpe$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > That's 40-65,000.  If I didn't know better, I would think you are envious.
>  > By the way, I speak 3 languages besides English.
>   
>  Well... whether or not you actually speak English is still under some
>  discussion.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
You are part of the discussion group?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:44 PST 1996
Article: 83661 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 4 Dec 1996 06:38:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 10
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 3 Dec 1996 21:54:08 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >And a flea on a dog's ass will keep him itching.
>  
>  That would explain your constant scratching!
>  
>>>>
I wouldn't go anywhere near your ass.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:45 PST 1996
Article: 83663 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:23:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <5825p7$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck writes:
>  
>  The "thing" from tha black lagoon lies...it told me in personal e-mail 
>  that it owned between 400 & 500 thousand books. Maybe in the prison 
>  library.
>  
>  
>  william c anderson wrote:
>  > 
>  > Sara aka Perrrfect (schwartz@infinet.com) wrote:
>  > : In article <57nn4e$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  who cares!!!
>  >
>  
>>>>
Chuck-now I see you for a complete liar and fabricator, and
>from  this day on will never regard anything you say as worthy
of any credibility.  You are simply a liar.  Now, I ask you to post
the e-mail message you allegedly received from me.  You just
screwed yourself, mr. High  and Might "Eyewitness."  I am saving this
post as evidence of your total incredibility.  Unless you want to prove
that you are still capable of being a gentleman and admit that you 
lied or were simply trying to be facetious.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 05:22:45 PST 1996
Article: 83666 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:31:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 74
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   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <57sqo8$pai@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com1 Dec 1996
  20:44:56 GMT writes:

   Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
   Ibokor wrote:
  
  As I recall, you claimed that in your French-German
  dictionary, there was no mention of extermination;
  in connection with Ausrottung and that it is
  false and misleading to translate Ausrottung
  into English as extermination.
  
  When I checked the Larousse dictionary in a bookshop
  in Freiburg im Breisgau in September this year, I
  found, as I posted, that ausrotten was rendered into
  French as extirper, exterminer;.
  
  I then asked you, Monsieur, to explain the difference
  in meanings between the French verb exterminer
  and the English verb to exterminate.
  
  To this date, your response has not appeared at this site.
  
    I've claim several times that I found dictionnaries were 2 words,
  extirper or exterminer were given, without any specification for
  the livings. In other dictionnaries it seems that such a specification
  is given. How many times will I have to repeat it? You state that my
  claim was that in a french-german dictionnary there was no mention of
  the word 'exterminer', but you don't give any reference to a specific
  post for that. This is simply because I never said that. Is it enought
  or will I have to make this clarification in 3 months again?
  

  
  

I will humbly jump in on this little debate, if I may.  Ausrottung does
indeed mean to exterminate or wipe out in German....A German
might use the term in relation to the Native Americans....wird ausgerottet....
being wiped out.....it also means to "uproot", specifically in relation to
plants and so on.....when referring to actions which result in the wiping out
of communities, such as the German village of Nemmersdorf, the expression
ausgettotet is and was used.  However, it may also be used with a "qualifier",
such as "Ausschaltung" which means exclusion.  Himmler included this expression
along with ausrottung in his alleged Posen speech.  Specifically, it could refer
to the wiping out of homogeneous communities within a larger community....
thus, the Jews could have been ausgeottet in the east, during the partisan
warfare conducted there, yet this would not imply that the WHOLE of Jewry
had been wiped out.....nor would it even mean that all the Jews of the East
were wiped out-which they weren't. Simply saying that someone is going
to wipe people out does not prove that they did....The German civilians mentioned
at Nemmersdorf were certainly ausgerottet, and we have complete documentation
to prove it.  Without proof, as in many of the most blatant accusations in the
Holocaust, the use of "ausrottung" would amount to nothing more than empty
threats and blustering.   Does this help?
>  
>  No, it doesn't Mr. Ehrlich.  I would appreciate it if you would post this
>  rubbish yourself, rather than feeding it to Mr. Blackmore.  You know as well
>  as I do what "ausrotten" means.  The fact that Mr. Beaulieu doesn't know
>  French, and that you know neither English nor German is no one's fault but
>  your own.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Er-excuse me?  What in God's name are you talking about?
I will never be able to figure out the strange imaginings involved
in Holokookery.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 06:08:22 PST 1996
Article: 83668 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:   Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:49:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
 
as an
 equivalent to 'order'." And according to Richard Schulze-Kossens: "The
 verbal expression 'der Fu"hrer wu"nscht,' 'es ist des Fu"hrers Wunsch ist'

And click your heels three times and repeat:  "There's no place like
Berchtesgaden..... 

 The "Fuehrer's Wish", and if he wished all grass turned into dollar bills,
 that would have happened as well...go peddle your fairy tales elsewhere.
  
  Mr. Belling, obviously flustered by his inability to offer a credible
  rebuttal (sadly due to his apparent cognitive disabilities), in true Homo
  Rabidus style, quickly falls back to argumentum ad hominen. Unfortuantely,
  substituing name calling and innuendo for an intelligent and credible
  argument is generally indicative of a mind of with the intellectual and
  emotional abilities of two year-old. 

No, I expect more proof than your recitation of an event clipped 
out of time and space with no further documentation.
  
  [which is the Fu"hrer's wish]...are identical in menaing. Although these
  are not direct orders, they are nonetheless, to be interpreted as such. If
  , therefore, he were to tell me to signal the Leibstandarte [Hiltrer's
  bodyguard] ...'it is my wish that they do this and that immediately,' then
  the commander of the Leibstandarte naturally would view this as an order.
  The 'wish' is always communicated by a theird party and is not explicitly
  passed on as a Fu"hrer-order. But it does indeed have the force of an a
  order."
  
  

This is better than what the genie offered in Alladin's Lamp.
  
  Fleming, _Hitler and the Final Solution_, pp.45-46.

 Fleming-number one German hater and baiter, similar to Streicher and
 the Jews.  Streicher documented all his accusations against the jews
 as well, if not better than Fleming.
  
  Mr. Belling, obviously flustered by his inability to offer a credible
  rebuttal (sadly due to his apparent cognitive disabilities), in true Homo
  Rabidus style, quickly falls back to argumentum ad hominen. Unfortuantely,
  substituing name calling and innuendo for an intelligent and credible
  argument is generally indicative of a mind of with the intellectual and
  emotional abilities of a two year-old. 

Thanks for your reply. Typical non response.




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 06:08:27 PST 1996
Article: 83670 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:26:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck writes:
>  
>  The "thing" from tha black lagoon lies...it told me in personal e-mail 
>  that it owned between 400 & 500 thousand books. Maybe in the prison 
>  library.
>  
>  
>  william c anderson wrote:
>  > 
>  > Sara aka Perrrfect (schwartz@infinet.com) wrote:
>  > : In article <57nn4e$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  who cares!!!
>  >
>  
>>>>
To Sara:  You should.  maybe you should try reading a few.  It might help
your otherwise rather poor abililties in historical argumentation.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 06:08:28 PST 1996
Article: 83671 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:25:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>

>  I mean, how utterly _stupid_ does one have to be to "misconstrue" the
>  number of trees planted along The Avenue of the Righteous, in honor of the
>  gentiles who risked their lives to save Jews from the Nazis, with the
>  number of Jewish victims of Nazi mass murder? 
>  
>  Evidently, at least as stupid as Mr. Belling appears to be....
>  
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Only you would take my comments on this subject seriously, mark.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 06:08:29 PST 1996
Article: 83672 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:38:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
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>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  Capt. Peter Peachfuzz (giwer@gte.net) wrote:
>  
>  : 	What is there to put up?  The very existance [sic] of the challenge 
>  : is an admission that the speaker has not been identified.  
>  
>  Hello?  Is anybody home?  I didn't think so.
>  
>  The speaker in the Poznan speeches has been identified to the satisfaction
>  of anyone with at least half a brain -- which, even if we include the
>  parts of yours that unfortunately seem to have been trashed by your
>  Korsakov's, you sadly are lacking.  In fact, the people who issued
>  the challenge are so sure that the speaker has been identified (and 
>  correctly) that they are willing to pay for the cost of the analysis should
>  the identification prove to be wrong.  That the "revisionists" refuse to
>  answer the challenge indicates (as usual -- hence the cognomen above) that
>  you have it exactly backwards.  
>  
>  Anyway, when are you going to either post the lie you said I posted here,
>  or retract your claim?  Or have you suddenly changed your opinion about the 
>  morality of libel?
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>  "I've lost my harmonica, Albert."
>  
>>>>
Give us a break Mr. Shultz.  This tape should have been subjected
to extensive testing to prove its authenticity when it was entered into
evidence at nuremberg, but, how can Satan cast out Satan?  You would
subject the tape to examination to the same people who may have forged it?
Are you so naive?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 08:28:01 PST 1996
Article: 83673 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Becker Implements National Socialism
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:30:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff,
  16 May 1942 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S
  Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418]
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers by
  putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small van and
  two on each side of the large vans, such as one often sees on farm
  houses in the country. The vans became so well known, that not only
  the authorities but also the civilian population called the van "death
  van", as soon as one of these vehicles appeared. It is my opinion the
  van cannot be kept secret for any length of time, not even
  camouflaged...
  
  Besides that, I ordered that during application of gas all the men
  were to be kept as far away from the vans as possible, so they should
  not suffer damage to their health by the gas which eventually would
  escape. I should like to take this opportunity to bring the following
  to your attention: several commands have had the unloading after the
  application of gas done by their own men. I brought to the attention
  of those S.K [Special Kommando] concerned the immense psychological
  injuries and damages involved to their health that this work can have
  for those men, even if not immediately, at least later on. The men
  complained to me about head-aches which appeared after each unloading.
  Nevertheless they don't want to change the orders, because they are
  afraid prisoners called for that work could use an opportune moment to
  flee. To protect the men from these damages, I request orders to be
  issued accordingly.
>  
>  The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to
>  come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator
>  to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer
>  death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My
>  directions have now proved that by correct adjustment of the levers
>  death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted
>  faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer
>  noticed.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
The so-called gas vans are really one of the most unbelievable
aspects of the Holocaust.  There are a number of reasons for this,
the first and foremost being logistical.  The effort involved in killing
small numbers of people by this method just would not produce the
desired results of wiping out vast populations quickly.  It ought to
be noted that the German army had a number of gas vans attached
to particular combat sectors, which were used for delousing clothing
and field equipment in an area where typhus ran rampant since the 
time of Napoleon.  Perhaps the Soviets captured one or two of these
vans in damaged condition and then simply allowed their creative
imaginations to run wild.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 09:59:15 PST 1996
Article: 83684 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:12:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article ,
>  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>  
>  > In article <57njvc$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > > This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.
>  > 
>  > Isn't it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
>  > nonsense? He's been beautifully trained, hasn't he?
>  >  
>  > Bet he can sit up and beg, too.
>  >  
>  > Sara
>  
>  I'm working on it.... };-> 
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
The report came from Zundel, as you well know.  Woof Woof


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 09:59:16 PST 1996
Article: 83686 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:00:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <57ud9u$ano@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
 
 I see you have chosen to single me out for your criticisms.  
  
  Perhaps this is because of your Nazi apologia and lies, eh, Mr.Belling? 
  
   The fact is, if I am treated with respect, I would treat you with respect
   as well.  
  
  Small problem, Mr. Belling.... Becuase you continiously spew Nazi apologia
  and lies (just before running away) you don't _deserve_ any respect. 
  
  Perhaps if you _earned_ some respect, you might be shown it? 
  
>  > You have done your share of insulting and ridiculing people
>  > on alt revisionism, and now have the gall to act as if your sensibilities
>  > are outraged.  Have you no shame?
>  
>  Given your ourageous Nazi apologia and lies, Mr. Belling, you rightly
>  _deserved_ every insult and bit of ridicule. And speaking of gall... For a
>  person who religiously spews blatant Nazi apologia and transparant lies,
>  have _you_ no shame, Mr. Bellinger? 

I do, Mark.  On you.  you are one of the few people
who sees truth, reason, and objectivity as "Nazi apologia".




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 09:59:17 PST 1996
Article: 83687 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:17:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5825hq$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
    mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
   In article <57nmol$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  
  [mangled text snipped]
  
  Mr. Belling, once again I would ask you please demonstrate a bit of
  courtesy (and manual dexterity0 in properly formatting your responses.
  Such continued lack of such a basic courtesy can obly be interpreted as a
  willful ploy to obfuscate the discussion....

Take it up with the server.
>  
>  >  It was law.  The law was later rescinded.
>  >   
>  >   And your cite for this is, Mr. Belling? What, don't have one? How
>  >   unsurprising, especially given the following:
>  >   
Read the testimony of Hans Lammers.





From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 10:19:23 PST 1996
Article: 83694 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:42:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
    
  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
  On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:06:11 GMT, hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE)
  wrote:
  
On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during
  the first world war.
 
Is that so?  Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
  positive about this.  I believe that he cannot do this.
  
  Joseph Bellinger has been unable to back up any of his/hers/its assertions.
  Stating that the allies initiated gas warfare in WWI is an example of
 why 
  cannot. However, it is most interesting watching him go down the 'Giwer
  path' of unsupportable assertions.
   

As usual, you lie.  The use of gas was begun by the French.
  
  And your citation for this claim is, Mr. Belling? What, you don't have
 one? Oh, the shock! The dismay! The.... laughter!
  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
The info may be found in the book, "Vorsicht! Faelschung!  Which I
have quoted from in the past.  there.  Now you have your source.
Will you pursue it?  I doubt it.



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 10:19:25 PST 1996
Article: 83695 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:39:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <57nj8h$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  [Mr. Belling's smelly dead fish snipped again]

 Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
 the Jews.
  
 Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you're words
 don't make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.) 
 
 I thought it was simple enough for you to understand:  The Nazis claimed it 
 was the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews 
 were "getting their asses kicked" in the Soviet Union.  Capisce?
  
 And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany, 
 Mr. Belling? 


Why are you asking me another question?  You asked a question and I answered
it, and now you wish to deviate on to another subject?
 
 Ask your friends at the synagogue.  Why ask me?  BTW, who declared
 war first-England and France, or Germany?
  
  I'm asking _you_, Mr. Belling because _you_ made the (inane) claim that
  "the Nazis claimed it was the Jews who were responsible for the war."
  Capisce?

Yes.  Apparently not only the Nazis claimed it, but so did Prime Minister
Cahamberlain, according to an excerpt in the Forrestal diaries.  Perhaps
certain people prominent in the jewish community declared that the Jews
were at war with the Nazis as well.  1,5 million Jews fighting in the various
allied armies against Nazi Germany wouldn't serve as a form of confirmation
for you, would it, Mark?
  
  Mr. Belling, that you try again and again to squirm away from answering
  this simple question is simply indicative of that your claim is
  indefensible -and that you know it.

  [snip]
  
 I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the 
face of a disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, 
 in front of whatever family she has left.
   
 I see. But then you glorify dead Nazis and defend their mass murder of
 millions. Hardly suprising then that you'd like to taunt the Japanese
survivors of the atomic bombings. 


I have NEVER-defended the proven murder of any defenseless human
beings-and you know it.

 Oh-I am taunting the japanese?  How quaint.  I think it might be a
 good point of reference if you first post the evidence that the Nazis
 murdered millions of Jews and then tell us how they did it, and be sure to
 include proof.  
  
  The evidence is in any public library, Mr. Belling. The evidence is in the
  National Archives and other archives and museums across the UNuted States
  and Europe. The evidence is on Nizkor and other similar websites. The
  evidence is offered daily here in alt.revisionism. 

Well that is what this forum is supposed to be about.  Examining all those claims
and separating the wheat from the chaff.  I don't believe everything I see in print
or am told-you don't either.  
  
  Yet you refuse to remove the Nazi scales from your eyes and _see_ the
  evidence. Truly, one can lead a horse to water, but one cannot make it
  drink....

There is certain evidence I do not contest, when I feel it has met the
burden of proof and reason.
  
   i am still waiting for those reports allegedly conducted
   by Dr. Larson on "gassed" inmates at dachau....what?  You misplaced
   them?....Tsk, tsk.
  
  Oh, no, Mr. Belling. hardly "misplaced." It is in the Congressional Record
  as I understand it. I thought that was made clear to you some time ago by
  Mr. Edeiken? All _you_ have to do is go to a public (or university)
  library that carries the Congressional Record, read it, and weep. 

I won't weep, I assure you.  However, be clear that I expect to see a complete
result of toxicological tests establishing the presence of gas poisoning of victims
at Dachau.  You know that this information is not contained in this record, or is
merely a paraphrasing.  If this info was actually available it would have been
published by historians long ago.  It is for this reason that I believe you simply
cannot meet the burden of proof which you placed upon your own shoulders.
And it was this burden which compelled you to remark that one day soon I would
eat crow pie.

  C'mon, Mr. Belling! A little _research_ won't hurt you. Much. 

Nor will it hurt you.  Provide these reports and the media will taut you
as a great researcher.  You will achieve fame.
  
  


  Dresden City Museum. 35,000. 1995.
 
 National News Service.  135,000. 1996.
  
  You mean like in the _Russian_ (!) National News Service? Care to give the date?

You'll be happy to hear that the date was on the anniversary of the bombing of
Dresden.
  
  BTW, you claimed "at least twice over the past 5 years." I see only _one_
  cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling.... 

My memory could have failed me.  
  
 For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
 135,000, perhaps higher.  

  Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you? 

There are a number of sources which may be citied.  I believe there were German
red cross reports issued at the time, as well as the comments by Harris and other historians
such as ---yes---David Irving.
>  > 
>  > Already cited.  How could I be any more embarrassed than you?  A puppet
>  > for a synagogue?
>  
>  Mr. Belling, citing "National News Service.  135,000. 1996" is a partial
>  cite. It would be a bit more helpful if you also cited the date this claim
>  was made, and if indeed the Nattional News Service in question is the
>  Russian National News Service or not. (If not, _which_ "National News
>  Service would it be?) 

It wasn't Russian, but they might have quoted the original estimates of the dead
to embarass the western powers in some way.
>  
>  BTW, you claimed "at least twice over the past 5 years." I see only _one_
>  cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling.... 
>  
>  I would also note, Mr. Belling, your anti-Semitic innuendo....

No, Mark, I am not anti-Semitic, much as you might wish it.
Why, I'd even welcome you in my home for dinner and discussion.
>  
>  >>> There never was an  air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in 
>  >>> the whole history of modern warfare.
>  >   
>  >> Oh please. Hamburg was a far worse. And all of the raids against German
>  >> cities paled against the Toyko raid. 
>  > 
>  > Thanks for citing further atrocities.  Dresden was by far the worse.
>  > Revealing that you never mentioned any German air raids.
>  
>  Amazing. Stupifying even. First Mr. Belling "thanks" me for citing the
>  bombing of Hamburg (which incurred more casualties than the 35,000 at
>  Dresden) and then he says in the next breath that I "never mentioned any
>  German air raids."

Mark-the casualties sustained at Dresden was approxinately 135,000-maybe
more.  I will cite you a proper source as soon as I find the one I am thinking of.
Also, all the German air raids conducted in the course of the war against the enemy 
wound not amount to the number of dead sustained at Dresden.  Shame on you.
>  
>  Is a frontal lobotomy a prerequisite to being a lying scumbag Nazi
>  apologist or what? 

More name calling.
>  
>  [snip]  
>  
>  >>> You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.
>  
>  No, Mr. Belling, you have supplied much hot air and a belated partial
>  reference. 
>  
>  >>  No, yo have repeatedly made appeals to your non-existant authority. Sorry,
>  >>  Mr. Belling, but that dog don't hunt. Please cite a specific source. Or is
>  >>  this too embarrassing for you? 
>  > 
>  > I will not do your research for you.  
>  
>  Asking _you_ to cite the source for _your_ claims is a prerequisite to
>  taking your claims seriously, Mr. Belling. Given that you have now
>  (belatedly) supplied a partial (at best) reference, I can only now take
>  your claim semi-seriously. It would behoove you to clarify and completely
>  cite your references for your claim that the death toll from the Dresden
>  raids was 135,000. 

I have given you the date.  The mention was made somewhere between 1985 and 1993.
I will quote other sources when convenient.  I promise.
>  
>  That you kick and scream at every step in doing so, Mr. Belling, can only
>  leave one to think that you are trying to hide something. Like maybe your
>  "sources" are as bogus as you are? 

No, they are not bogus.  I simply don't have all the info at my fingertips
nor a large organization to conduct the same for me.  If I did, you would
really be "illin".......
>  
>  > Look up the original reports of the authorities in Dresden who had to dispose 
>  > of the bodies. 
>  
>  And which reports, specifically, were these, Mr. Belling?

I believe it was the German Red Cross. 
>  
>  > However, that won't do for you as it attacks your shibboleths.
>  
>  That's "shibboleth," you cretin.

Typo-name caller.  You never make any?

 As in "the test word used by the men of
>  Gilead to distinguish the escaping Ephramites, who pronounced the initial
>  (sh) as (s): Judg. 12:4-6." (cf. _Webster's New World Dictionary_, Third
>  College Edition.) 
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >>>> But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
>  >>>> attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
>  >>>> tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.
>  >  
>  >>> No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  
>  >  
>  >>  Since when did where the Axis death tolls restricted to military
>  >>  casulties? Since _you_ said so? Sorry, Mr. Belling go peddle your smelly
>  >>  dead fish elsewhere. 


>  > 
>  > Why should I, when the smell improves your stench?
>  
>  Ah, a (unintentional) admission that Mr. Belling does indeed try to
>  side-track discussions away from his unsupported claims, Nazi apologia,
>  and lies with red herrings and innuendo! 

No, Mark it's not.
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >>> The "citizens" were civilians.  Your images are confused. 
>  > >  
>  > >  Nope. I think perhaps it is _you_ who are confused. Obviusly you have
>  > >  mixed up the fact that Nazis did not consider German Jews citizens of the
>  > >  Reich with German nationals being members of the Axis by the fact that
>  > >  Germany, their country, had treaty obligations to such.  
>  > 
>  > We get your drift Herr Rebbe.....
>  
>  Sorry, Mr. Belling, but I'm not a Rabbi. I know very little about Jewish
>  law outside the Old Testament in the King James Bible.

Perhaps we could form a Bible study group?
>  
>  >>>   According to _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
>  >>>   
>  >>>   "...the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
>  >>>   World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany  and Fascist Italy
>  >>>   (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
>  >>>   (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)" 
>  >>>  
>  >>>   I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly  _ignorant_ of
>  >>>   history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
>  >>>   Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
>  >>>   longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality? 
>  >>> 
>  >>> And who classifies babes in arms as the "axis"-you?
>  >>  
>  >>  German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling. 
>  > 
>  > Oh.  Well, by your own logic you have justified the shooting
>  > of the the children of Jewish partisans.
>  
>  Hardly, Mr. Belling. The killing of non-combatants in occupied
>  territorries, by the occupying power, in retaliation for partisan
>  activities is strictly forbidden by the Hague Convention (IV), Article 50
>  specifically. 

The killing of defenseless civilians anywhere can be said to be the same.
Why don't you just admit it, and show us a human face for once?
>  
>  Nazi Germany was a signatory to the Hague Conventions (IV). Nazi Germay
>  also murdered several million non-combatants in Nazi occupied territories
>  during WWII. 

The allies murdered several million Germans and their allies in allied occupied
territory at the end of the war.
>  
>  In contrast, both the Axis and the Allies considered each others' means of
>  production, which included the civilian populace (i.e the workers), to be
>  legitimate military targets. Both the Axis and the Allies bombed these
>  legitimate military targets. The Allies did not exterminate non-combatant
>  ethnic groups in Allied occupied territories.

Not true, Mark, and you know it.

 The Nazis _did_ exterminate
>  non-combatant ethnic groups in Nazi occupied territories.

No more than the allies.




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 12:30:41 PST 1996
Article: 83698 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:54:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <58242p$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
 

>  Obviously, Mr. Belling is still too frightened to go to a public library
>  and look in the Congressional Record. Why is that? 
>  
>  Must I do _all_ his research for him? Sheesh....
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Mark-the onus is on you.  If you come up with that document-an actual
forensic, toxicological test that proves that cyanide was used to gas a victim
to death-you will become a great researcher...go for it....make your day.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 16:05:16 PST 1996
Article: 83704 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Truth About Jews
Date: 4 Dec 1996 06:40:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <5836d6$g4k@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <582cds$f8q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  > 
>  > .
>  > >   
>  > >  Sorry, Jesus was Jewish.
>  > >   
>  > >  Live with it.
>  > >   
>  > >  Sara
>  > >  
>  > >  -- 
>  > >  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  > >  Christian religion."
>  > >         George Washington, 1796
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > I hate to admit it, but Sarah is right.  Jesus was Jewish.
>  
>  Who is Sarah?
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
You should ask?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 16:05:17 PST 1996
Article: 83712 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Old Man Winter
Date: 4 Dec 1996 06:46:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
Here is the treatment a respected and elderly 
German Industrialist received from his beneficent
American captors:
  
  [...]
  
Source:  The Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.38.
  
  This story may or may not be true. What are *your* criteria
  for supposing it to be true? You seem to have read it in a 
  book. Fine, but you dismiss out of hand any number of 
  Holocaust testimonies which have appeared in hundreds, nay
>  thousands of books.

I don't dismiss them all, contrary to what some may think.

 What makes C. Belfrage, who I notice 
>  doesn't even name this "respected and elderly German
>  Industrialist", worthy of your belief or mine?

Please read below and see if the information satisfies any
of your criteria.
>  
>  Did you believe the Auschwitz death march testimony I
>  posted yesterday? If not, why not?
>  
>>>>
C. Belfrage was one of many allied soldiers who
occupied Germany and implemented the policies
of the conquerors.  He was later expelled from the
United States as a Communist sympathizer during 
the McCarthy era.  His book, which I have quoted
from, details his experiences.  He was, needless to
say, an ardent and committed anti-nazi.

As to your Auschwitz death march story, I have not 
seen it, but intend to look for it after I post this-then
I will get back to you.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 16:05:18 PST 1996
Article: 83722 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Some bodies fell out'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:51:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <57nltk$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3298cd5f.8446915@news.sprynet.com>
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>   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:


>  
>  A third claim was made: that no gassing took place in Natzweiler, when
>  Kramer was there, despite his own testimony. Thus, Kramer was reliable
>  about Bergen-Belsen but not for Natzweiler.
>  
>  Mr Blackmore wasn't "ready" to discuss it neither. It's a shame since
>  this gassing is easy to prove.
>  
>  
>>>>
Then why haven't you done so?rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 16:05:19 PST 1996
Article: 83730 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:27:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

Mark wirtes:
  
  Probably because, Mr. Belling, the topic of alt.revision is about
  Holocaust denial.

 
 Oh?  And "Holocaust" can only refer to Jews?  Is that what you
 are telling us?
  
  Actually, that is what _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College
  Edition) tells us: 
  
  "2 great or total destruction of life, esp. by fire [nuclear _holocaust_]
  -*the Holocaust [also the h-] the systematic destruction of over six
  million European Jews by the Nazis before and during World War II."
  
  Personally, I'm a bit more inclusive, considering the Holocaust [note the
  capital "H"] to include the murder of about 6 million gentiles- by the
  Nazis -as well.

As if you ever gave a damn about the Gentiles......or is it Goyim?
What does Goyim mean, Mark?

 However, I'm afraid, Mr. Belling, that my _or_ Webster's
  definition of the Holocaust does _not_ include the German civilian
  casualties incurred from the Allied strategic bombing campaign.

Good for your Webster,  My definition is different.
  
  So please be so kind as to wave your smelly red herring elsewhere.

Not a chance.
  
  If I were to go into a detailed and lenghty discussion
  in regard civilain casualties incurred during World War II a more
  appopriate forum would be, for example, "soc.history.war.world-war-ii."
  
 Of course, I believe that "soc.history.war.world-war-ii" is a moderated
  group, so your Nazi apologia, puerile lies, anti-Semitism, and juvenile
  vuloarities would keep you from participating. Pity.

 On the contrary.  I have no doubt that many of my comments would be
>  > most welcome.  
>  
>  Then please go right ahead and post them there. Amuse me. 

How could I amuse a clown?
>  
>  > BTW, what do you regard as "anti-Semitic" on my part?
>  > Would you mind posting it?
>  > >  
>  > >  The moderators there tend to frown on such puerile and hateful nonsense.
>  > 
>  > Is that why they never post here?
>  
>  Why don't _you_ ask _them_? 
>  
>  > >  As it stands, I sometimes briefly address such off-topic issues when
>  > >  presented in this group when they are used for purposes of Nazi apologia
>  > >  and Holocast denial or anti-Semitic propaganda. Typically, this means
>  > >  pointing out attempts by deniers to establish moral relativism between
>  > >  Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the war for the  purpose of
>  > >  white-wshing Nazi atrocities and mass murder. 
>  > 
>  > There certainly is a moral relativism, whether you like to admit it or not.
>  
>  Then please feel free to demonstrate such. And please try not to appeal to
>  your ersatz authority. Your boorish repitions of "Because I Say So" by no
>  means makes it so. It simply makes you a monumental boor. 

I have never used that expression.
>  
>  > However, your refusal to admit simply shows your own prejudice.  it does not
>  > go unnoticed.
>  
>  Really? Mr. Belling, simply because I do not share your Nazi fantasy about
>  the bombing of Dresden by no means implies I choose not to out of
>  prejudice. Nor does it mean that your Nazi fantasy about the bombing of
>  Dresden is morally equivalent to the Nazi mass murder of the European
>  Jews. 

And who should believe you?
>  
>  Again, please feel free to demonstrate otherwise. Amuse me. And please try
>  not to appeal to your ersatz authority. Your boorish repitions of "Because
>  I Say So" by no means makes it so. It simply makes you a monumental boor.

If you wish to amuse yourself, re-read your posts. 
>  




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec  4 18:38:41 PST 1996
Article: 83740 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:01:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <5827vp$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <5804ba$ape@news.enter.net>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >  Just like you, who keeps repeating the same nonsense over
>  >  and over, even though you are proven wrong on practically
>  >  every occasion.  BTW, are you definitively saying that Rabbi
>  >  Reichorn never existed?
>  
>  	No.  Only a reasonable suspicion arises when he reported to hold a 
>  position which did not exist, specifically "Chief Rabbi of France" in 1859.  There 
>  could be various reasons for this misattribution.  To date, however, there has 
>  been no explanation whatsoever.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
Then let me ask you this?  Was there ever a "Chief Rabbi of Italy?"


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:43 PST 1996
Article: 83747 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 20:05:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <58216a$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  In article <57srbq$pai@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
  [snip]
  
  I am not playing games.  The recording should have been subjected to
  analysis years ago.
  
  Well, here's your chance.  We can subject the tape to
  the analysis that no historian thought was necessary.


It wasn't historians who subjected the tape to analysis.  It
was your impartial court and its team of investigators at Nuremberg.
I, for one, find it amazing that your colleagues spent all sorts of money
on estabishling whether the Emil Lachout documents were authentic, yet
never once thought of examining the Himmler tape, which is much more
important....Hmmmm....says something about standards, wouldn't you think?
>  
>  Isn't this the kind of forensic analysis you deniers
>  are always screaming for?
>  
>  Coward.

Name caller.  In any event, the comments, even if true, only prove
that people were shot on the eastern front during the course of the
partisan warfare campaign and this is nothing new...It certainly does
not point to an allegation where Jews were being murdered en masse
by lethal gas.
>  
>  
>  >....However, what will this prove?  A clever interpolator,
>  >using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
>  >the tape....that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
>  >guilty party would confess to the deed....
>  
>  And what understanding do you have of recording technology,
>  mr. Blackmore?  If you are concernd that a clever forger 
>  would elude the analytical skill of the experts, why don't 
>  you contact some experts and ask them about it?

The experts were the ones who may have forged the recording to
begin with,  The time for investigation should have been when the
tape was offered into evidence-not 50 years later.
>  
>  It amazes me how quickly you concoct excuses to prevent
>  solving this question once and for all.

I am not preventing you or anyone else from conducting an inquiry.
>  
>  >one can only do here, it seems, is use logic to evaluate what we have been
>  >provided with and the circumstances surrounding the whole event.  This
>  >I have done.
>  
>  Logic my ass.

Gets to you, doesn't it?
>  
>  You baselessly speculated that the Posen speech was a 
>  forgery,

And you baselessly assert that these few remarks constitute
evidenct that a conspriacy was underfoot to murder every single
Jew in Europe.  Can't you see how foolish your argument sounds?


 expounding the oft repeated lie that it is 
>  not Himmler speaking on the tape. 

I am not the only person to suggest this.  People who worked with
Himmler for years said the same thing.  Others who were present at
the speech had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

 When offered the 
>  opportunity to substantiate your speculations with a 
>  scientific examination of the tape, you started
>  bellyaching about how no expert could detect the kind
>  of forgeries that you predicted.


It would be difficult, depending on the quality of the recording and
so on, and what method may have been used to interpolate.  However,
I am not preventing anyone from conducting this research if they wish.
You might want to ask the Holocaust Museum in Washington.  They
would have the funding.
>  
>  You have, in fact, altered your original argument.  
>  First you argued that it isn't Himmler speaking on
>  the tape.  Now you seem to be saying that it _is_
>  Himmler, but that some clever cut-and-paste artist
>  has doctored the tape.

I have always repeated the same argument to everyone.  Look up 
past posts on Deja News.  My mail correspondence is packed with
the same references.
>  
>  Make up your mind.
>  
>  >.I personally know of a case where
>  >a Jewish American, working with staff to compile evidence for the Holocaust,
>  >deliberately doctored film clips received from the Soviet Union after the war
>  >in order to incriminate the Germans.  The man will not admit to the deed
>  > publicly, however, for obvious reasons.
>  
>  I know of a certain rblackmore who beats small animals
>  and children for fun.

Well, you can attempt to poke fun all you like, but what I wrote is a fact.  I know
it is  an unpleasant fact for you, but that is not my problem.
>  
>  Now that we've dispensed with this evening's unsupported 
>  allegations, why don't you go ahead and take the challenge?

I thought I had.  It is up to you to take up the challenge. You
sre relying on the tape as evidence.  Prove it.  If you are not
relying on the tape, then say so.
>  


>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:45 PST 1996
Article: 83753 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!nic.ott.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:06:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <57nmol$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3297ccef.8334868@news.sprynet.com>
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>   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
>  chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) wrote:
>  
>  >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:32:59 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
>  >Alstine) wrote:
>  >
>  >>In article <32941ef8.257510543@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  >>Stele) wrote:
>  >>
>  >>Considering that Hitler's "Euthanasia" program killed the mentally
>  >>disabled without their (or their relatives') consent, clearly evidences
>  >>the difference of between humane euthanasia of the terminally ill where
>  >>the terminally ill _choose_ death forthemselves.
>  >
>  >	When the person is a ward of the state, as was the case in these
>  >cases, relatives have no say in the legal treatment.  
>  
>  >>Hitler's "Euthanasia" program was state sponsored murder.
>  
>  >	You folks are rather too foolish to deal with the law.  Murder is
>  >defined in law.  Euthansia in accordance with law is not murder.
>  >Abortion in accordance with law is not murder.
>  
>  Was the euthanasia a legal treatment ? Then, why did they hide the
>  real cause of the death to the relatives, trying to keep the secret ?
>  
>  The Hitler's text wasn't a law. How could Clemens August and many
>  others lodge complaints for murder if a real law existed ?
>  
>  
>>>>
It was law.  The law was later rescinded.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:45 PST 1996
Article: 83761 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:15:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <583ivc$nuf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5821h9$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
      mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
In article , karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles
  R.L. Power) wrote:
  
    rblackmore@juno.com writes:    
    Ask your friends at the synagogue.  Why ask me?  BTW, who declared
    war first-England and France, or Germany?
    
    Germany first launched its aggression against Czechoslovakia, which
    Britain and France were obligated by treaty to protect but did not,
    and then Poland, which Britain and France were obligated by treaty
    to protect, at which point they did the honorable thing. You have a
    problem with this?
 
 OK.  Poland annexed Tschen at the same time which was also part
 of Czechoslovakia, and other European countries grabbed slices of
 the severed state as well.  So the British and French would have been
 obligated to attack them as well.  Also, the Soviet Union invaded Poland
 from the east, and your "honorable" friends were obligated to declare war
 on them as well.  Instead, your buddies Roosevelt and Churchill simply handed
 Poland over to Stalin on a silver platter at the end of the war.  And you say
 that the war began over Poland's right to sovernignity?  Thats a good one, 
 Mark.
>  
>  Er, wrong person, Mr. Belling. Ain't it a pain when your sloppiness in
>  keeping the attributions straight bites you in the ass? 

I haven't the faintest idea what you are mumbling about...What I wrote
is correct-thats why you never responded with info to the contrary.  Caught
with your hand in the cookie jar again.
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:46 PST 1996
Article: 83764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!df.lth.se!news.lth.se!solace!mn6.swip.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:18:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <583j61$nuf@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <57uv6c$9q5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> - libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
>  (william c anderson)2 Dec 1996 16:13:00 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>Mr. Blackmore's predictable response to the "Put up or shut up"
>  :>challenge:
>  :>
>  :>: I am not playing games.  The recording should have been subjected to
>  :>: analysis years ago.....However, what will this prove?  A clever interpolator,
>  :>: using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
>  :>: the tape....that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
>  :>: guilty party would confess to the deed....
>  :>
>  :>Uh-huh.  Do I hear the familiar sound of a denier backpedaling?
>  
>  You hear the familiar sound of a coward slithering away.
>  
>  [deleted]
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
I didn't know you could make such sounds, Gord.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:47 PST 1996
Article: 83772 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Truth About Jews
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:17:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

.
>   
>  Sorry, Jesus was Jewish.
>   
>  Live with it.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
I hate to admit it, but Sarah is right.  Jesus was Jewish.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:48 PST 1996
Article: 83773 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:37:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree writes:
>  
>  stele really gets profound with his arguments! The lil natsiewannabe 
>  is so stupid and ignorant (not the same thing) IMHO  that he just 
>  buzzes around looking for spots to lay his eggs   (maggots)
>  
>  
>  Kurt Stele wrote:
>  > 
>  > On 22 Nov 1996 18:05:44 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > >Danny, you are such a silly little man.
>  > 
>  > Danny hates it when his cheesey posts are debunked.  Everytime he
>  > posts them en masse he secretly hopes revisionists happen to be "busy"
>  > and off the internet that day.
>  
>  Debunked? Did you mean to say debunked? You call your post a debunk? 
>  Sad lil shit. No brainer. High school dropout. Stole his computer by 
>  ripping off old farts like me. 
>  
>  With the guts to say someone like Danny is a silly little man! 
>  ROTFLMAO
>  
>  Chuck
>  > 
>  > Kurt Stele
>  > 
>  > "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are THE BEST, MOST CREDIBLE 
EVIDENCE AVAILABLE. EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY BEATS THE HELL OUT OF OVER-DOSED 
TURKEYS
>  
>>>>
Refer to some of these testimonies in my examination of witnesses
for the prosecution at the Belsen trial.  What a sorry little pack
of liars they turned out to be.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:49 PST 1996
Article: 83774 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Look! Just a little Research, Blackmore.
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:51:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 192
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  Blackmore could do research on the material Blackmore reads in
  Blackmore's latest book, _The Good Old Days_. It has become obvious
  that Blackmore prefers to distort rather than present the documents as
  they are. Anyway on page 130 of Leni Yahil's _The Holocaust_, Oxford,
  1990 we find this about Johannes Blaskowitz, whose notes are the first
  thing in Part one of _The Good Old Days_.

OK, here we go again:
  
  ". . .the commander of the army in the East, Marshal Johannes von
  Blaskowitz, wrote a memorandum enumerating thirty-three cases

Thirty three cases.....that is not many considering what was happening at
the time.  Be thankful it wasn't more.

  shooting, robbery, vandelism, and the like, expressing his fear that
 such incidents would affect the discipline of te soldiers who had
 witnessed them

Compare this to the shooting, robbery and rape conducted by the
Soviet army a few years later.  Why don't you look for written protests
to Stalin?

 He also noted that discussions with the Security
  Police (Sicherheitspolizei, or Sipo) also noted that discussions with
  the local Gestapo had been fruitless, since the latter was acting on
  instructions from the national command of the SS. He therefore asked
  that the rule of law be restored.



Well, I doubt whether this officer could have been acting from the 
"national command of the SS", as the SS were nominally under the
jurisdiction of the Wehrmacht.  However, the police units apparently
operated independently, especially when investigating serious crimes
committed against German nationals.

     On November 18, 1939, Hitler's adjutant reported the führer's
  reaction that a war cannot be conducted by the methods of the
  Salvation Army. Blaskowitz's continuing complaints were of no avail.
  The events of September, when an estimated 4,000 to 5,000 Germans were
  killed by Poles, were cited as justification for the German terror.
 Apparently on Hitler's instructions, the number of German casualties
  was exaggerated tenfold in the Reich's official propaganda, which
  spoke of 58,000 Germans missing or known to have been murdered.

You will need to prove that these reports were exaggerated, or at least
provide us with a few reasons as to why and how you think they were
exaggerated and by how much.


  Moreoever, Hitler issued a special amnesty on October 4, 1939, whose
  opening paragraph stated, 'Actions carried out in the occupied Polish
  territories from September 1 until now, to express resentment of
  atrocities committed by the Poles, are not to be investigated as
  criminal acts." This amnesty was declared "to commemorate the victory
  concluding the battle imposed on us by Poland."

Well, amnesties are often granted for such things.
  
  Her sources for this material is Martin Brozat, _Nationalsozialistiche
  Polenpolitik, 1939-1945_, Stuttgart, 1965 and Reitlinger's _The Final
  Solution_. 
  
  In fact on page 33 of Reitlinger we find this:
  
  "Whereas in June, 1941, the independence of the police units in the
  rear areas of the army was defined with meticulous care after long
  conferences, in September, 1939, there seems to have been only a hint
  from the Fuehrer that the SS were privileged and that the animal
  spirits of the men were not to be discouraged in Jewish relations.

Seems to have been only a hint is not good enough.....

 On
  September 14th, for instance, two SS men, a sergeant and a gunner,
  were court-martialled fro the murder of fifty Jews. Having worked them
  all day at bridge-building these two men drove the Jews towards
  evening into a synagogue and shot them. The court reduced the murder
  charges to manslaughter and pronounced sentences of nine years' and
  three years' imprisonment. After some correspondence, the
  Commander-in-Chief, Von Brauchitsch, failed to confirm even a
  mitigation of these sentences, which he declared had been quashed
  under the terms of the general amnesty. For the gunner Ernst the
  Judge-Advocate had pleaded that 'as an SS man he was particularly
  sensitive to the sight of the Jews. He had therefore acted quite
  thoughtlessly in a spirit of adventure. An excellent soldier, not
  punished before."

I would say that this qualifies as a war crime and should have been
punished severely.  However, you cannot maintain that this was the
rule rather than the exception.
>  
>  From _The Von Hassel Diaries 1938-1944_, Hammish Hamilton, London,
>  1948 on page 77:
>  
>  "I hear that Blaskowitz, as commander of an army, wanted to prosecute
>  two SS leaders -- including the rowdy Sepp Dietrich -- for looting and
>  murder.

Sepp Dietrich was captured by the allies.  He was placed on trial a number
of times, and even with their low standards of evidence, he obtained his
freedom and died a free man.


 But in vain. Those who saw Warsaw, with its devastation and
>  many thousands of dead bodies lying around, came away with horrible
>  impressions. Of course the commander of the city should not have
>  permitted this to happen, but the Nazi determination to bring the war
>  to a quick end was primarily responsible."

Well, this is the justification frequently given for the allied policy of 
terror bombing and the dropping of atom bombs on Japan.  The fact is,
the German commanders at least gave the civilian population of Warsaw
24 hours to vacate the city before they began their massive bombardment.
The destruction of the city was due to the Pole's obstinacy.
>  
>  Page 95:
>  
>  "Gogo Nostitz, very depressed, told about absolutely shameless actions
>  in Poland, particularly by the SS. . . . The shooting of hundreds of
>  innocent Jews was the order of the day.

Then I would like to see this order.

 Furthermore, an increasingly
>  insolent attitude was adopted by the SS toward the Army, which they
>  did not solute but jeered at and undermined.

They were under the command of the army.

>     Blaskowitz had written a memorandum describing all this quite
>  frankly. It also contained a sentence to the effect that, judging from
>  the conduct of the SS in Poland, it was to be feared they might later
>  turn upon their own people in the same way. Blaskowitz, as a matter of
>  fact, had executive powers only in the case of 'revolt' Otherwise he
>  had nothing to say outside the military sphere. Frank was carrying on
>  like a megalomaniacal pasha.

Frank had no authority to issue orders to either the army or the SS.
I think there is confusion here between the Waffen SS and the Police
Units, which were not part of the SS but often wore similar uniforms and
insignia.


 Neurath could learn a lesson from him in
>  that respect, since he (Frank) let nobody interfere, but rules like a
>  sovereign, whereas Neurath gave magnificant hunting parties but in
>  reality served only as an 'extra.' Perhaps we may hope that the
>  behaviour of the SS will be the quickest way to enlighten the Army."
>  
>  Back to Reitlinger page 44:
>  
>  "The Reich Jews were not easily assimilated to the conditions of the
>  impoverished Jewish communities of Eastern Poland, nor did the local
>  Jews welcome them. The lack of proper food, clothing, shelter, or
>  sanitation produced a typhus epidemic. In December, 1939, the
>  Commander-in-Chief, East, Field-Marshal Blaskowitz, reported that
>  children arrived in the deportation trains from the incorporated
>  territory frozen to death, and that people were dying of hunger in the
>  reception villages. The Swiss Press got hold of the report sent to
>  Himmler by a high SS officer, according to which the death-rate among
>  the Jewish deportees to the Lublin province was thirty per cent.
>  Nevertheless, after an extremely cold spell of weather, orders were
>  given for the resumption of deportations at a full-dress conference of
>  the Reich Main Security Office, summoned by Heydrich on the January
>  30th and attended by Eichmann."

Well, this is not really relevant to what is detailed in the good old days.
I appreciate your efforts to reply, but I would have to examine all of these
references you give.  Otherwise, I ask you to simpy refer to the text of the
Good Old Days, lwhich I relied upon, and THEN show me how you think
I exaggerated.  Fair enough?
>  
>  What happened to Blaskowitz you might ask? Well, let's go back to
>  Yahil and page 152:
>  
>  "The anarchy in the Generalgouvernement was heightened by the
>  competition among the various authorities, above all, as mentioned
>  before, between the governor, Hans Frank, and Himmler's
>  representative, HSSPF Friedrich-Wilhelm Krüger. Initially, Frank was
>  at loggerheads with the military authorities in the
>  Generalgouvernement, but after the cammanding Marshal von Blaskowitz
>  was replaced -- at Frank's insistence -- by a man more amenable to
>  National Socialist methods, the army was blocked from interfering with
>  the civil administration and confined itself to matters directly
>  related to its jurisdiction."

Do you happen to knopw who replaced Blaskowitz and when?




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:50 PST 1996
Article: 83778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:12:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <583iq0$nuf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd04-015.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5821jd$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article ,
  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
 
 In article <57njvc$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

 This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.

 Isn't it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
nonsense? He's been beautifully trained, hasn't he?
  
 Bet he can sit up and beg, too.


Is that what your husband has to do?=rb

 Sara




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:51 PST 1996
Article: 83794 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:45:18 GMT
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 30 Nov 1996 03:28:19 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >>  To this time today I notice that exactly 100 messages have passed
>  >>  thru my server dated 11/29 and written by rblackmore.
>  
>  >>  One has to wonder if he has now joined the ranks of Giwer in
>  >>  attempting to spam the newsgroup or is it merely that his brain
>  >>  has never had a thought that his mouth couldn't use?
>    
>  >>  It would seem that rblackmore/jbelling (Joseph Bellinger) no
>  >>  longer enjoys the support of his handlers since 90% of his post
>  >>  are 1 liners or knee-jerk xenophopic defenses of all things
>  >>  German.
>  
>  >One liners are all you deserve most of the time.
>  >What sort of compulsive obsessive-neurotic would actually count my
>  >posts?  You're sick, Ken, you need help.  
>  
>  One liners are all your feeble brain can come up with, Mr.
>  Bellinger.
>  
>  As fas as obsessive-compulsive nuerotic, Mr. Bellinger, I am
>  afraid you have earned that distinction for yourself.
>  
>  You will soon be replacing Giwer on the Netkooks page.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
I could never compete with the denizens of Holokookery.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:53 PST 1996
Article: 83796 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:39:58 GMT
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  The following photos are in
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>  
>  They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
>  William Hodge and Company, 1949.  
>  
>  belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>  belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>           
>  The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
>  that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>         
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>  
>  Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
>               and Belsen). 
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/
>  
>  Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
>                corpses in Belsen.
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
>  
>  Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
>                II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Yes.  What of it?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:54 PST 1996
Article: 83798 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:19:19 GMT
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article ,
>  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
>  > foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
>  > overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
>  > Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.
>  
>  Poor potty training? 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
>From  a man who cleans toilets in a synagogue?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:54 PST 1996
Article: 83801 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:36:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


 Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure
  is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
 Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 
 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent 
  can be used for forced labor.
  
Again, noone should assign any credibility to this statement unless
and until we see the original german, translated by a German expert in
German. Otherwise, it's just compost.
  
  Those diaries were preserved on plates.  They have been seen (I have seen some
  of them).  Louis Lochner, who translated them, is a German expert.  Next?
  
Thinking Man.
  
  Any time soon?
  
  
  --
  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
 "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people." 

(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/	



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:55 PST 1996
Article: 83811 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 4 Dec 1996 21:29:54 GMT
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


   
  And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany,   Mr. Belling? 
 

 Why are you asking me another question?  
	  
  Because I would like an answer? 
  
  
   You asked a question and I answered it, and now you wish to deviate on to 
   another subject?
  
  Another subject? Given that you claim that you wrote that "the Nazis claimed it 
  was the Jews who were responsible for the war," I think my asking you how
  were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany is perfectly
  apropos. 

No.  Your question is inappropriately phrased.
  I claimed that the Nazis accused the Jews
of being responsible for the war and then you ask
 me how the Jews were responsible,
as if I am a Nazi and can give you the answer.
  If you want to know why the Nazis
thought the Jews were responsible, ask, but
 don't be sneaky about it.
  
 Care to answer the question, Mr. Belling? How were the Jews responsible
 for a war started by Nazi Germany? 
  
    Ask your friends at the synagogue.  Why ask me?  BTW, who declared
    war first-England and France, or Germany?
  
  Which nation, without first formally declaring war, invaded another
  sovereign nation Mr. Belling?

Russia?  When it invaded Finland?  Poland, when it annexed Tschen?
Russia?  When it invaded Poland? 
As with the First world war,  it didn't quite "happen" as you imply,
 as you well ought to know.
  
     I'm asking _you_, Mr. Belling because _you_ made the (inane) claim that
     "the Nazis claimed it was the Jews who were responsible for the war."
     Capisce?
   
   Yes.  Apparently not only the Nazis claimed it, but so did Prime Minister
   Cahamberlain, according to an excerpt in the Forrestal diaries.  
  
 Complete citation please. Author, title, page. 

You will have to look it up.  I don't happen to have the book right
on hand.  Look it up in the index under Chamberlain.  Simple enough?
  
 Perhaps certain people prominent in the jewish community declared that the 
 Jews were at war with the Nazis as well.  
  
  And who were these "certain people prominent in the [J]ewish community,"
  exactly, Mr. Belling?

Research it.  You are aware of the quotes. 
  
   1,5 million Jews fighting in the various allied armies against Nazi Germany 
   wouldn't serve as a form of confirmation for you, would it, Mark?
  
  And what "various allied armies," specifically, were these "1,5 million
  Jews" members of, Mr. Belling? At what time(s) were they members? Please
  be sure to include full source citations to support your claims, please.
  Remember: Author, title, page.

No problem:  The Soviet Union, America, Great Britain, New Zealand, 
Yugoslavia, Poland, France, and Jewsih partisans were fighting throuhout all
the European theatres of the war.  Isaac Kowalski, a Jewish partisan who
helped to form an underground press in occupied Poland, also quotes
the figure in his book "A Secret Press in Nazi Occupied Europe".
 Are you calling him a liar?  You also might want to access your local
library or a library for Judaic studies.  A number of volumes exist which
will corroborate the figure for you.  Your feeble attempt to bust my chops
isn't looking so well for you.

  
  Mr. Belling, that you try again and again to squirm away from answering
   this simple question is simply indicative of that your claim is
   indefensible -and that you know it.
 
   [snip]

 I have NEVER-defended the proven murder of any defenseless human
 beings-and you know it.
  
  I know no such thing, Mr. Belling. You have defended Kramer, who was
  convicted of crimes against humanity. You have defended Goe"ring, who was
  convicted of crimes against humanity. You have defended Streicher, who was
  convicted of crimes against humanity. These crimanls, Mr. Belling, took
  part in the _proven_ murder of quite a few defenseless human beings, Mr.
  Belling, and were convicted and executed for it. And you have defended
  them. 

And I will continue to defend them because their sentence was
a travesty of justice.  I also have shown by examining the so-called
"evidence" offered against them, that they were innocent of the charges
preferred against them.  However, I never have nor never will defend
a person I believe is guilty of premeditated murder of innocent human
beings and have written this quite often on AR as well as in private
e-mail correspondence.  I am not on the defensive here.
>  
  [snip]

 There is certain evidence I do not contest, when I feel it has met the
 burden of proof and reason.
  
  Such as? 

Erich Koch,  Grabner, Goeth, and many others.
  
   i am still waiting for those reports allegedly conducted
    by Dr. Larson on "gassed" inmates at dachau....what?  You misplaced
    them?....Tsk, tsk.

   Oh, no, Mr. Belling. hardly "misplaced." It is in the Congressional Record
   as I understand it. I thought that was made clear to you some time ago by
   Mr. Edeiken? All _you_ have to do is go to a public (or university)
   library that carries the Congressional Record, read it, and weep. 
 
 I won't weep, I assure you.  
  
  That remains to be seen, Mr. Belling.
  
 However, be clear that I expect to see a complete
 result of toxicological tests establishing the presence of gas poisoning of 
 victims at Dachau.  
  
  In all fairness, I will endeavor to give you a complete citation (i.e.
  page number in the Record) for this as soon as I can.

All right. Fair enough, but I must point out to you that this must be the
actual report and autopsy itself-not some paraphrased edition or something
"testified to" without placing the reports into evidence.  Agreed? 
  
   You know that this information is not contained in this record, or is
   merely a paraphrasing.  
  
  Actually, no, I do not know that, Mr. Belling. Do you? Have _you_ examined
  the Congressional Record and determined this? 

No.  
  
   If this info was actually available it would have been
   published by historians long ago.  
  
  The Congressional Record _is_ published and widely available Mr. Belling.
  Have you tried looking for it in a public or university library? 

No.
  
 It is for this reason that I believe you simply
 cannot meet the burden of proof which you placed upon your own shoulders.
  
  Again, Mr. Belling, I will endeavor to provide you with a full citation.
  This should resolve the issue. This, I would point out, is more than _you_
  typically provide in your "citations."

Sometimes, but I always state when I need to speculate and simply
use logic or reason.
  
   And it was this burden which compelled you to remark that one day soon I would
 eat crow pie.
  
  Indeed. 
  
   C'mon, Mr. Belling! A little _research_ won't hurt you. Much. 
 
 Nor will it hurt you.  Provide these reports and the media will taut you
 as a great researcher.  You will achieve fame.
  
  I take it then, you acknowledge _your_ inadequacy in accomplishing this?
  That you are incapable of finding the Congressional Record and perusing it
  to find the information in question? 

You provided the source, Mark.  I can understand if you have difficulty
producing it off the top of your head, as I cannot always comply immediately
with a source either-but you have had more than enough time now to produce
the reports.
  
  Sure seems like it, Mr. Belling.... 
  

   BTW, you claimed "at least twice over the past 5 years." I see only _one_
   cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling....

I believe it was twice. 
 
 My memory could have failed me. 
  
  How "conveinant." But I'm afraid, Mr. Belling, that dog won't hunt now.
  You made the claim that of "at least twice over the past 5 years." I am
  holding you to that claim, Mr. Belling. Please provide at _least_ two
  (credible) citations made within the last five years that the death toll
  for Dresden was 135,000 people killed. 

Television broadcast on National News.  I don't know how I can
prove to you a quote on a News bureau years ago.  
  
> Or you can retract your unsupported claim, Mr. Belling.... 

For the reasons above it is unsupported, but it does not lessen the
fact that I heard it, as did millions of other people.
  
    For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
    135,000, perhaps higher.  
      Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you? 

No.  I will get around to it.
 
 There are a number of sources which may be citied.  I believe there were
  German red cross reports issued at the time, as well as the comments by
  Harris and other historians such as ---yes---David Irving.
  


  
 Then _which_ "National News Service," Mr. Belling? 

You might try AP Wire Service.
  
  BTW, you claimed "at least twice over the past 5 years." I see only _one_
  cite. You are still shy a few cites, Mr. Belling.... 
 
 I would also note, Mr. Belling, your anti-Semitic innuendo....

 No, Mark, I am not anti-Semitic, much as you might wish it.
Why, I'd even welcome you in my home for dinner and discussion.
  
  I don't dine with Nazi apologists, Mr. Belling. Or proven liars. Or
  anti-Semites. 

Of course I knew you would say that...



 Amazing. Stupifying even. First Mr. Belling "thanks" me for citing the
  bombing of Hamburg (which incurred more casualties than the 35,000 at
  Dresden) and then he says in the next breath that I "never mentioned any
  German air raids."

I am referring to air raids BY Germans.
 
 Mark-the casualties sustained at Dresden was approxinately 135,000-maybe
 more.  
  
  That is your unsupported claim, Mr. Belling. I have asked you many times
 to support this claim with full citation to the sources you used. To date
  you have refused. One can only surmise you are being evasive, Mr. Belling.
  Perhaps this is because you are citing a source who, in turn, is citing
  Nazi wartime propaganda claims? Hmmm? 
  
   I will cite you a proper source as soon as I find the one I am thinking of.
  
  Excellent, Mr. Belling. How long will this take you? If your past
  performance is any indication Hell will be frozen by the time you "get
  back" to us....  

Less time than it has taken you to provide the Dachau
Forensic Reports, I can assure you.
  
  I do hope you are a bit more responsive this time. 
  
  Also, all the German air raids conducted in the course of the war against the 
 enemy wound not amount to the number of dead sustained at Dresden.  Shame on 
 you.
  
  So? This was not because of Germany's lack of _trying_, Mr. Belling! It is
  because the Luftwaffe was _forced_ onto the defensive by the Allied air
  forces. That and terribly poor planning on Go"ring's part in _not_
  authorizing the design and production of multi-engine heavy bombers, like
  the B-17, B-24, and Lancaster, prior to the war.

Sorry, that explanation doesn't cut it.  Deal with facts.
  
  [snip]
  
 I will not do your research for you.  

 Asking _you_ to cite the source for _your_ claims is a prerequisite to
 taking your claims seriously, Mr. Belling. Given that you have now
  (belatedly) supplied a partial (at best) reference, I can only now take
  your claim semi-seriously. It would behoove you to clarify and completely
  cite your references for your claim that the death toll from the Dresden
  raids was 135,000. 

 I have given you the date. The mention was made somewhere between 1985 and 
 1993.
  
  Full citation please, Mr. Belling. Author, title, page.
  
   I will quote other sources when convenient.  I promise.
  
  I'm afraid that's not good enough, Mr. Belling. You demand that I provide
  Dr. Larsen's reports at _your_ convience, yet you will support _your_
  unsupported claims at _your_ convience (i.e. never)? 
  
  I'm afraid that is simply not acceptable, Mr. Belling. 
  
  If I am to provide _you_ a full citation for Dr. Larsen's report, you can
  hardly  deny _me_ the quid quo pro of providing the _full_ citations for
  _your_ claims! 
  
  That, is, of course, unless you are a shameless hypocrite? 

You have yet to provide the reports.
  
   That you kick and scream at every step in doing so, Mr. Belling, can only
  leave one to think that you are trying to hide something. Like maybe your
  "sources" are as bogus as you are? 

   No, they are not bogus.  I simply don't have all the info at my fingertips
 nor a large organization to conduct the same for me.  If I did, you would
 really be "illin".......
 
  Then I suggest you do the honorable thing and retract your unsupported
  claims, Mr. Belling. Obviously, your big mouth has written a check your
  body can't cash....

Look who's talking-where are the forensic reports from Dachau?
  
 Look up the original reports of the authorities in Dresden who had to 
 dispose of the bodies. 
 
  And which reports, specifically, were these, Mr. Belling?

 I believe it was the German Red Cross. 
  
  Full citation please, Author, title, page.

You need to research it Mark.
 


>  


  German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling. 

 Oh.  Well, by your own logic you have justified the shooting
 of the the children of Jewish partisans.
  
 Hardly, Mr. Belling. The killing of non-combatants in occupied
  territorries, by the occupying power, in retaliation for partisan
  activities is strictly forbidden by the Hague Convention (IV), Article 50
  specifically. 

 The killing of defenseless civilians anywhere can be said to be the same.
  
  Would you care to name the specific internatinal treaty that prohibits the
  aerial bombardment of military targets (means of production of production
  inclusive)?

Are you really this pathetic, Mark?  And you call me an apologist for
murderers!  By your own logic you justify the raids on Guernica.
  
   Why don't you just admit it, and show us a human face for once?
  
  Why don't _you_ stop with your Nazi apologia and simply admit the Nazis
  were a bunch of genocidal murderers who slaughtered 12 million defenseless
  noncombatants? 

I don't believe the charges or the figures.  It has all been grossly exaggerated.
  
  Gotta  bone stickung in your throat or what, Mr. Belling? 

Not at all.
  
  Nazi Germany was a signatory to the Hague Conventions (IV). Nazi Germay
  also murdered several million non-combatants in Nazi occupied territories
  during WWII. 
 
 The allies murdered several million Germans and their allies in allied 
 occupied territory at the end of the war.
  
  Full citation please. Author, title, page.

Already given many times over.  If the day ever comes when
I can devote more time to posting on AR, I fear for your mental
health, Mark.
  
  In contrast, both the Axis and the Allies considered each others' means of
  production, which included the civilian populace (i.e the workers), to be
 legitimate military targets. Both the Axis and the Allies bombed these
  legitimate military targets. The Allies did not exterminate non-combatant
  ethnic groups in Allied occupied territories.
 
 Not true, Mark, and you know it.
  
  Sorry, Mr. Bellinger, Because You Say So is unnacceptable. If you wish to
 assert the contra, then please offer a credible rebuttal. 
  
 The Nazis _did_ exterminate
  non-combatant ethnic groups in Nazi occupied territories.
 
 No more than the allies.
 
 Please support you claim, Mr. Bellinger. Which ethnic groups did the
  Allies externimate in Allied occupied territories? Please be sure to
  provide full citations in support of your claim. 

You can research my posts for the answers.  Now-here's
something to start with concerning Dresden. Let's see if
you come up with your forensic reports from Dachau just
as quickly:

Der Tod von Dresden, by Axel Rodenberger, published
by instalments in the weekly paper, "Das gruene Blatt",
February 25, 1951.

Also, from "Advance to barbarism, F.J.P. Veale, Devin-Adair Co. 1968:

"So enormous were the numbers of bodies that nothing
could be done but to pile them on timber collected from the
ruins and there to burn them.  In the Altmarkt one funeral
pyre after another disposed of five hundred bodies or parts
of bodies at one time.  This gruesome work went on for weeks.
Estimates as to the number of casualties vary between very wide
limits.  Some put the figure as high as a quarter of a million, and
this figure was put forward at the Manstein Trial in 1949....The 
Swiss Paper, Flugwehr und Technik, writes:  "In the three great
attacks on Dresden the number of dead from reliable sources is
reported at 100,000.  Air Marshal Sir Robert Saundby in his preface
to David Irving's ....book accepts the estimate of 135,000.  pp.191-192.




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:56 PST 1996
Article: 83812 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:47:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 93
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <3298f48c.179597535@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
  Stele) wrote:
 On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:34:58 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
 Alstine) wrote:
 
 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

 Why did never issue any order to kill Jews if that was Hitler's
 intent?   Oops!
  
  Oops indeed, Mr. Smith. Your fascile one-liners land you in hot water yet
  again! To whit:
  
 In regards objections to the mass shooting of German Jews outside Riga by
  Dr. Bernhard Lo"sener, the Advisor on Jewish Affairs to the Interior
  Ministry, to his superior, Secretary of State Dr. Stuckart:
  
 "I told him that my colleague, Dr. Feldscher, had recieved an eyewitness
  account  of the way in which deported German Jews had recently been
  massacred in Riga...I told Stickart that this outrage had affected me as
  it would any feeling human being; and that in  the present case I was also
  affected as an advisor in the Ministry of the Interior, since Jews of
  German citizenship were involved. My conscience and my position at the
  Ministry were now irreconcilable. They would remain so even if the present
  policy on mixed marriages and on the offspring fropm these unions were to
  prove untenable. Stuckart's reply to this was, word for word: 'Herr
  Lo"sener, don't you realize that all of this is being done on orders from
  the highest level?' [*] I said, 'There is a judge inside me who tells me
  what I have to do.' Stickart answered that if my conscience did not allow
  me to continue, he would relieve me at once from my position; but first he
  would need to consider how I might otherwise be employed." (Fleming,
  _Hitler and the Final Solution_  p.107.)

All hearsay.  where is the order?  Don't refer to some mythical "Hitler
wishes" and it shalt be done nonsense.
  
  * "'On orders from the highest level' can mean only that an order or
  command came from Hitler himself" [Richard Schultze-Kossens to Fleming, 1
  December 1979.]; Ibid. p.107fn.
  
  Furthermore, according to Fleming: 
>  
>  
>  
>  ...Since we find that this expression of Hilter's will, equivalent in
>  force to a command, was closely connected with mass shootings that occured
>  outside Riga in November and December of 1941, the following comments are
>  worth quoting. Dr, Werner Best has said: "I can attest that, seen from
>  'from below,' that is, from the perspective of thoise who recieved the
>  orders, the formulas 'der Fu"hrer wu"nscht' [the Fu"hrer's wishes] and
>  'der Fu"hrer hat befohlen' [the Fu"hrer has ordered] were perfectly
>  synonymous...At the recieving end as well...the word 'wish' was used as an
>  equivalent to 'order'." And according to Richard Schulze-Kossens: "The
>  verbal expression 'der Fu"hrer wu"nscht,' 'es ist des Fu"hrers Wunsch ist'


The "Fuehrer's Wish", and if he wished all grass turned into dollar bills,
that would have happened as well...go peddle your fairy tales elsewhere.

>  [which is the Fu"hrer's wish]...are identical in menaing. Although these
>  are not direct orders, they are nonetheless, to be interpreted as such. If
>  , therefore, he were to tell me to signal the Leibstandarte [Hiltrer's
>  bodyguard] ...'it is my wish that they do this and that immediately,' then
>  the commander of the Leibstandarte naturally would view this as an order.
>  The 'wish' is always communicated by a theird party and is not explicitly
>  passed on as a Fu"hrer-order. But it does indeed have the force of an
>  order."
>  
>  
>  
>  Fleming, _Hitler and the Final Solution_, pp.45-46.

Fleming-number one German hater and baiter, similar to Streicher and
the Jews.  Streicher documented all his accusations against the jews
as well, if not better than Fleming.
>  
>  


 "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people." 

(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/	



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:57 PST 1996
Article: 83820 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:01:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  >>  In <329161d3.31003240@news.gte.net>, Matt Giwer posting as
>  >>  impoverished@shtetl.com (Swiss bank billions) wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  [snip]
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >Whether he was an actor or not, it is clear that he was a liar in
>  >any event.
>  
>  Oh. So if he wasn't an actor, well, hell; he's a liar anyway. I like
>  that! 
>  
>  Geez.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Go to the back of the class.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:58 PST 1996
Article: 83821 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:00:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <582bek$f8q@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <57sudh$pai@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  >>  In <57o9kj$57u@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>    
>  >>  >One liners are all you deserve most of the time.
>  >>  >What sort of compulsive obsessive-neurotic would actually count my
>  >>  >posts?  You're sick, Ken, you need help.  
>    
>  >>  What sort of compulsive-obsessive neurotic would actually write your
>  >>  posts?
>  
>  >What sort of person would respond to them?
>  
>  One simple revels in the unconscious irony of this response.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Indeed.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:46:59 PST 1996
Article: 83825 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 3 Dec 1996 23:15:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 129
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <57ntkr$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  ron.schwarz[at]nethawk.com (Delete spam-buster ([at]) to reply) writes:
   On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:33:21 -0500, schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka
   Perrrfect) wrote:
   
   In article , jstuart@tristar.org (Jim
   Stuart) wrote:
   
   Thank you, comrade!  The clear, firm gaze of Adolf Hitler is
    an inspiration to all Aryan men, to strive toward victory and
   to battle each enemy with courage and quiet determination.  
   
   And then to take the coward's way out and commit suicide.
 
 I would hardly refer to Hitler's suicide as cowardice.  Fact is, the man,
 whatever else he may have been, was not a coward, as his whole career
 and war record amply proves.  
  
 
  Indeed. To whit, a revealing anecdote regarding Mr. Belling's hero, Hitler:
  
  "Since 1910, when he was twenty-one, he [Hitler] had been subject to
  military servive. According to Heiden the Austrian authorities could not
  put their finger on him while he was in Vienna. They finally located him
  in Munich and ordered him to to report for examination in Linz. Josef
  Greiner, in his _Das Ende des Hitler-Mythos_, publishes some of the
  corrospondance between Hitler and the Austrian military authorities in
  which Hitler denies he went to Germany to avoid Austrian military service.


Curious the sources you rely on.  Decades old and crusted with ancient
propagandistic lies by detractors.  Of course, you can't explain why Hitler 
enlisted to fight in the German Armed Forces, and was highly decorated.
  

I took the liberty of snipped more of Shirer's ancient mendacium and distortions.
  
 The allies were simply deprived of the pleasure of executing him publicly and 
 later displaying his mummified head and sex organs in some museum in Tel Aviv.
  
  So bitter! Tsk tsk. (It must be hard for Mr. Bellinger to see his heroes
  so mocked and reviled for the criminal scum they were.) However, Mr.
  Bellinger (conveiantly) overlooks the reality that _none_ of the convicted
  and executed major Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg were so descicrated by
  the Allies after they were executed. Besides, Hilter, wasn't completely
  hung anyways.... 

According to your Russians, he didn't have 2 testicles...according to other
sources, he had three.....By the way, you are wrong about the desecration
of corpses.  Read how the Soviets reacted to goering's corpse after he was dead.
You ought to find it amusing.  About as amusing as pulling teeth out of the mouths
of corpses.....
>  
I suggest you widen your knowledge of your Fuehrer by reading some of the
documents and interviews collected by the OSS during the war. Some of the
wonderful things you'll discover are:
 
 What is OSS-the Office of Stupid Shits?
  
  Bitter, bitter.... Tsk tsk.

Liars, liars, ....Tsk Tsk.
  
Hitler got undressed and then asked Rene Mueller (an actress) to kick him,
all the while crying that he "wasn't worthy" of her. She later "committed
suicide."

Too bad.  She might have got a job with the Green Bay Packers.
 
Hitler forced Geli Raubel to stand over his naked body and urinate on him.

I hope she wasn't a beer drinker.....
Of course you witnessed these scenes?  You would have liked to?

She later "committed suicide" with Hitler's gun.

Others imply she was murdered by either Hitler's enemies or associates.
 
When one of Hitler's personal guards started a flirtation with Eva Braun,
he was found at the bottom of a ravine behind the "Eagle's Nest." Cause of
death? "Suicide"

>  > >  > 
>  > >  >What a guy, huh?

What a joke is more like it.
 
  The big question: where was Fahmi Malek at the time? 
  

 The things some people will believe.  Well try this one on for size:
 
 "Once I had an unpleasant experience in the camp, when a  (Jewish) doctor
>  > visited me and my room-mates had to leave.  When we were alone, he said,
>  > "I have to ask you to tell me a few intimate things about Hitler."
>  > 
>  > I stared at him, astonished.  "But you know that I can't tell you anything
>  > "intimate" about Hitler."
>  > 
>  > "Frau Riefenstahl, I understand that you do not care to speak about 
>  > such things, but I am a doctor, and you can trust me. (!)  It is no crime
>  > if you as a woman slept with Hitler.  I will not report it any further.  We
>  > want to know if Hitler was sexually normal or if he was impotent, what
>  > his genitals looked like, and so on.  These things are important to us
>  > for understanding his character."
>  > 
>  > Source:  The Sieveof Time, Leni Riefenstahl
>  > 
>  > Now. if all those reports which you mentioned were true, why
>  > was this doctor begging Ms. Riefenstahl for all these sordid
>  > details?  Fact is, your info is simply a compendium of malicious
>  > lies and gossip disseminated by Hitler's detractors.
>  
>  Ah yes, Mr. Belling'ss rationalizations to salvage his supreme idol starts....

Right, Mark.  You are lucky you don't stutter.
>  
>   
>  
>  The things weak-minded people do out of idolatry and their suceptability
>  to  personality cults. Not to mention just being plain ol' immoral Nazi
>  scum....

More name calling from the people who claim to never call other people
names......You bit off more than you chould chew again Mark.




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:00 PST 1996
Article: 83826 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:27:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 79
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   sma4@ix.netcom.com(Steven Malcolm Anderson) writes:
 In  olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
  writes: 


   Criticising the Jews or failing to symphatizing with them are the
  same 
  as being a nazi in your opinion.
  
   Criticizing Jews as individuals is not the same as attacking "the
  Jews" as a group, as you do. The latter _is_ bigotry. If you don't want
  to be a bigot, then learn to judge people as individuals. 
  
   Did the Palestinians become "nazis" after 
  the zionists had grabbed their country?
  
   Are you referring to the 1967 war when the Arab nations attacked
  Israel and lost? A nation, such as Israel, has every right to defend
  itself, and to take steps, as did Israel, to prevent such an attack in
  the future.
  
  For the same reason you don't laugh at a funeral. Many of their
 relatives are still alive and still mourning over the loved ones they
 lost in the camps. 
  
 I could not care what the Jews are doing over their past.
  
   I think you do care or you wouldn't post this crap.
  
   I do not
  expect the Jews to pay any particular respect for my dead relatives
  that died more than fifty years ago, even if they were murdered by
  somebody.
  
   If they showed the same disrespect to you that you show to them, you'd
  be pissed as hell.
  
  Why do the Jews keep bothering the world with their holocaust story
  after
  all these years?
  
   Because they don't want it repeated.
  
  Returning to the subject. What is a fetus? A human being or a subhuman
  being? If it you consider it a subhuman being, does that give you the
  right
  to kill it?
  
>   I do not regard a fetus as human. There is no comparison whatever
>  between what a woman decides to do with her own body and its contents
>  and what went on at Auschwitz or any other concentration camp, Nazi or
>  Communist. 
>  
>  > And please do not call be a nazi just because I refuse to believe in
>  >the holocaust.
>  
>   I call you a Nazi because of your hateful in-your-face attitude toward
>  Jewish people. You certainly do have the right to express your beliefs
>  or disbeliefs or, in this case, your obvious hatred for "the Jews",
>  just as a Communist has the right to burn the American flag. But, like
>  the flag-burning Communist, you can damn well expect other people to be
>  pissed as hell at you.
>  
>  >--
>  >Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk
>  
>  -- 
>  sma4@ix.netcom.com
>  "The concept of 'greatness' entails being noble,
>   wanting to be by oneself,
>   being capable of being different, standing alone..." -Friedrich Nietzsche
>  "Identity is shaped through confict and opposition." -Camille Paglia
>  
>>>>
I was once in a bank and heard two Jewish people vehemently 
arguing over who was going to have the privledge of using the
telephone next.  Finally, one of the Jews screamed out-"You're
nothing but a Nazi!  A Nazi!"  All the customers in the bank turned
and simply stared at these two elderly Jews, wearing yarmulkas.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:01 PST 1996
Article: 83827 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pagans?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:44:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57su7b$pai@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

 
  
  Once again, Mr. Giwer shows his absolute lack of ANY intelligence.
   
  DRUIDS worship trees, Stupid, not pagans.
   
  But of course, you KNEW that, right?
   
  Now. Having been caught in an absolutely moronic mis-statement, will you do
  the honorable thing and say "I was wrong"?
   
  I doubt it. You'll throw the pyramid thing up again, even though I have
  stated quite clearly that I was wrong, that I made a mistake, that I was in
>  error.
>   
>  See, Mr. Giwer, that's what PEOPLE do. Idiots, like yourself, obviously
>  have a "better way."
>   
>  Jerk.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796

No-on the Jewish?-rb
>  
>>>>
Well, Sara, you have proven your lack of knowledge again.  have you
ever heard of St. Boniface?  Or the wiritngs of Tacitus on the ancient
Germans?  I suggest you sit down and doa little reading for a change.
You MIGHT learn something-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:01 PST 1996
Article: 83835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!eru.mt.luth.se!solace!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:55:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 44
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References: <5808l5$1f48$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <57ue9t$ano@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com2 Dec 1996
  11:24:45 GMT writes:

   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <57qq9m$r1p@news.enter.net> - yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
  writes:

   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <57m8ac$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com> -  1996 08:53:32 GMT writes:
  
Badly.  Seems they were all at your house.  Hope you bought 
enough butter to butter your bagel.  

 That the best you can do
	Tell him that you a pre-pubescent boy in search of a 13 year old girl.  
That might sweeten him up a bit.
  
  By God, for all the rubbish that transpires in this newsgroup, all 
  unsubstantiated BS, *that* particular one has been supported by a reference to
  the DejaNews location.  Why has Mr. Blackmore not explained why he was posting
  in the alt.arcadia newsgroup searching for teenaged boys?
   
>  
>  :>I'll tell you why:  because I didn't, silly man.  Why are you
>  :>wasting people's time with this nonsense?  If this is the only
>  :>way you can respond to my posts, I feel sorry for you.
>  
>  Well, explain the post then.  It is still archived in DejaNews.
>  
>  BTW, spare me the histrionics about the way anyone responds to your posts. 
>  You started the rough stuff, you brought it upon yourself.  Your whining now
>  rings hollow.
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Don't attempt to turn the tables here Mr. McFee.  It was definitely 
your colleagues, like Mark, etc. who started the rough stuff, and you
finally decided to play tagalong as well.  I asked for a cease firing a 
long time ago.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:02 PST 1996
Article: 83836 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: juhu, Mr. Blackmore
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:30:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
>  We're waiting for your cites on memory.
>  
>  S.
>  
>>>>
Don't wait too long....you might faint.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:03 PST 1996
Article: 83839 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Good Old Days,1.
Date: 30 Nov 1996 02:13:15 GMT
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I have seen many references to the book "The Good Old
Days" recently by staunch Nizkor devotees.  Since I happen
to have this book in my library of comic books, I thought I would begin
an analysis of the contents therein.  Let's begin with chapter one:

We have a letter from Eastern Territory Commander Johannes
Blaskowitz, in which he writes a communication dated February 6, 1940.

He details the fact that a rebel and sabotage organization has sprung up 
and that the Security Police are investigating.  He accuses the Police of
killing 10,000 Jews.  His comments clearly show that he is outraged at
what he perceives to be a great crime.  The content of his letter makes it
clear, however, that the culprits he considers responsible are a clique of
irresponsible men, and he advises their immediate arrest.

The unfortunate thing about this letter is that no reply is given from the
military authorities.  Without any confirmation of either receipt of the 
letter or substantiation of the  grave allegations, this document must be
considered worthless.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:03 PST 1996
Article: 83843 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:18:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  In article <5758pb$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  [snip]
  
   Mark, you silly little clown....must you still make an ass
  of yourself in front of the whole world?  Mark would like
   the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for 
   those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
   of people-his benefactors.  I have never once read of this
   man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
   or any other civilians who died during and after the second
   world war.
  
  Bellinger, your seeming enjoyment of issue avoidance is pathetic.
>  Revisionism, and the Revisionist cause, of which you are self admitedly a
>  willing drone, has nothing to do with the death of millions of German
>  citizens. The sole purpose of Revisionism is to deny the Holocaust. People
>  do not deny that millions of Germans died in the War. People do not deny
>  that millions of PEOPLE died in the war. Revisionists, however, persist in
>  denying that 12 million people died in the Holocaust, and that 6 million,
>  possibly 7 million, of them were Jews.

This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.
Mr. Gandhi-the ardent Nizkor devotee, who chants his lies on every possible
occasion, neither dismayed nor embarassed by the fact that he is a proven
liar over and over again.  The sure mark of an irrational fanatic, who believes
on faith.

 So, rather than berate people for
>  things which they never said, perhaps you could make an attmept at the
>  TRUTH. Explain why you lied about the Auschwitz Museum. Explain why you
>  lied about the Simon Wiesenthal Centre. Explain why you lied about the
>  Discovery Channel.

I never did lie, though your obvious psychological disturbance blinds you
to the truth.
>  
>  You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
>  foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
>  overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
>  Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.

It isn't true and you have no facts to prove it.  Is that good enough?
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will not come out of raj Gandhi-rblackmore
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 05:47:04 PST 1996
Article: 83844 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:52:39 GMT
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   rakshasa@panix.com (Kevin Filan) writes:
  In article <57a6sr$ias$2@gruvel.une.edu.au>,
  ibokor  wrote:> 
 
  I do not claim to speak for any other contributor to this
  newsgroup, but I, for one, *do* have great sympathy for
  innocent victims of war. That is part of the reason I
  share Ossietzky's and Russell's pacificism.
  
  	The "innocent GERMAN victims" red herring keeps coming up on
  alt.revisionism.  I find this interesting, because:
  
  	A) It's a strawman.  Nobody, so far as I can tell, is trying to
  deny there were atrocities committed against German citizens during the
  latter part of World War II.  On soc.history.war.world-war-ii, I recently
>  saw a thread on the rape of German women by Russian soldiers.  And I've
>  seen _lots_ of debate on the bombing of Dresden.  Nobody has suppressed
>  _Slaughterhouse Five_ yet, unless I've missed something. 

No, it isn't a strawman.  it is entirely relevant.
>  
>  	B) It assumes that in accepting the existence of a Holocaust
>  against Jews one must reject the existence of other atrocities.  It's like
>  saying one can't simultaneously condemn Hutu _and_ Tutsi atrocities in
>  Rwanda and Burundi.  
>  
No.  All this depends on one's definition of the Holocaust, and whether the
Jewish persecution was a unique event in human history, or contemporary
history, for that matter.

>  	C) When you hold the "German atrocity" stories to the same
>  standard Revisionists hold the "Jewish atrocity" stories, they all fall
>  apart. 

How is that?

 Jeff Roberts had a big problem accepting stories about Jewish
>  gassings, but no problem accepting that Russian soldiers cut the breasts
>  off German women or that Hoess and other German defendants were tortured.
>  Why doesn't Greg Raven reject THESE testimonies as quickly as he dismisses
>  testimonies of gas chambers.

He may indeed reject them.  In any case, why accept an allegation of gas
chambers when there is absolutely no forensic evidence to prove the same?
Accept on faith alone, or on the basis of conflicting eyewitness and survivors
whose tales have been successfully debunked over and over again.  If you
are going to charge the nazis with mass murder by gas and still have the 
facilities, I would suggest that you offer forensic proof to determine as such
It is amazing that this has never been done, even after 50 years.  The
Nizkor devotees are unhappy with the findingas of Leuchter and Rudolf,
and no wonder-it refutes every claim ever made about the "gas chambers".
>  
>  >The extent to which the population of a country shares
>  >or bears responsibility for the actions and policies
>  >of its government(s) depends on numerous factors. If
>  >a country is truly democratic, then the actions and
>  >policies of the government are legitimately the
>  >responsibility of its citizenry with suffrage, otherwise
>  >the degree of responsibility varies.
>  > 
>  >Of course this does *not* mean that each individual 
>  >is/was in agreement with policy and/or action.
>  
>  	Since I came to alt.revisionism, I've been looking for some
>  evidence that the Allies did medical experiments on German prisoners, or

Our government and others have certainly conducted medical experiments
upon volunteers, as did the German military.  Jehovah's Witnesses underwent
such experiments in this country as did Afro-Americans at Tuskogee.

>  that the death rates in Allied POW camps approached the 240% annual death
>  rate among Russian POWs in 1942. 

Why don't we examine the death rate of germans in Russian POW camps
Take the captured at Stalingrad, for example.  Out of 90,000 prisoners taken,
only 5,000 ever returned home.

 So far no Revisionist has presented me
>  with this.  (Of course, no one has presented evidence of large communities
>  of Polish Jews in the Soviet Union).  

Will this do for now.

Peace, 

rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:05 PST 1996
Article: 83864 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:46:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  Note: Followups set.
>  
>  In article <329f71c3.26386237@news.spry.com>, klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis)
>  wrote:
>  
>  > To this time today I notice that exactly 100 messages have passed
>  > thru my server dated 11/29 and written by rblackmore.
>  > 
>  > One has to wonder if he has now joined the ranks of Giwer in
>  > attempting to spam the newsgroup or is it merely that his brain
>  > has never had a thought that his mouth couldn't use?
>  
>  > It would seem that rblackmore/jbelling (Joseph Bellinger) no
>  > longer enjoys the support of his handlers since 90% of his post
>  > are 1 liners or knee-jerk xenophopic defenses of all things
>  > German.
>  
>  Mr. Bellinger is, and has always been a troll - one who enjoys the lies he
>  spreads. He hides behind his nazi apologia with claims to great intellect,
>  but he has yet to demonstrate such prowess in this newsgroup. Perhaps in
>  another newsgroup, posing as a 14 year old girl, Mr. Bellinger has managed
>  to impress others with his vast mental capacity, but not here, where he has
>  only been able to dumbfound people with the folly of very poor lies, and
>  assertions which he utterly refuses to support with even a shred of
>  evidence.
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Why don't you stop trying to pose as an intelligent human being?
It doesn't suit your less than modest talents.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:05 PST 1996
Article: 83865 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:20:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <57nk26$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <5758pb$igq@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com22 Nov 1996
>  22:17:15 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>    
>  :>>>>>
>  :>Mark, you silly little clown....must you still make an ass
>  :>of yourself in front of the whole world?  Mark would like
>  :>the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for 
>  :>those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
>  :>of people-his benefactors.  I have never once read of this
>  :>man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
>  :>or any other civilians who died during and after the second
>  :>world war.
>  
>  Perhaps Mark van Alstine understands what Mr. Blackmore pretends he doesn't:
>  that the fate of the Germans, as terrible as it was, in a war which Germany
>  willed and started, is irrelevant to this newsgroup.  Perhaps Mr. Blackmore
>  should heed the advice of his hero, the drunken sot Giwer, and find a
>  newsgroup where discussion of the war is on-topic.  He won't of course, since
>  to do that would require a brain and a modicum of decency.
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Thank you for your irrelevant drivel.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:06 PST 1996
Article: 83875 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg "cite"
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:57:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <57uvq8$9q5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william
>  c anderson) wrote:
>  
>  >rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >: The fact is that Jackson spoke in a voice dripping with sarcasm,
>  
>  >Uh... Mr. Belling?  How do you know in what tone of voice Jackson
>  >spoke?
>  
>  Mindreading is one his many talents. As such, we might as well pack it
>  in now since you can't beat mindreading as an historical method.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
As if I didn't expect you to ask that question. How naive.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:07 PST 1996
Article: 83884 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: rblackmore spamming?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:47:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <57o9kj$57u@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >>  To this time today I notice that exactly 100 messages have passed
>  >>  thru my server dated 11/29 and written by rblackmore.
>    
>  >>  One has to wonder if he has now joined the ranks of Giwer in
>  >>  attempting to spam the newsgroup or is it merely that his brain
>  >>  has never had a thought that his mouth couldn't use?
>    
>  >>  It would seem that rblackmore/jbelling (Joseph Bellinger) no
>  >>  longer enjoys the support of his handlers since 90% of his post
>  >>  are 1 liners or knee-jerk xenophopic defenses of all things
>  >>  German.
>  
>  >One liners are all you deserve most of the time.
>  >What sort of compulsive obsessive-neurotic would actually count my
>  >posts?  You're sick, Ken, you need help.  
>  
>  What sort of compulsive-obsessive neurotic would actually write your
>  posts?
>  
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
What sort of person would respond to them?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:08 PST 1996
Article: 83885 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:30:35 GMT
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   sma4@ix.netcom.com(Steven Malcolm Anderson) writes:
 In  olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
  writes: 


   Criticising the Jews or failing to symphatizing with them are the
  same 
  as being a nazi in your opinion.
  
   Criticizing Jews as individuals is not the same as attacking "the
  Jews" as a group, as you do. The latter _is_ bigotry. If you don't want
  to be a bigot, then learn to judge people as individuals. 
  
   Did the Palestinians become "nazis" after 
  the zionists had grabbed their country?
  
   Are you referring to the 1967 war when the Arab nations attacked
  Israel and lost? A nation, such as Israel, has every right to defend
  itself, and to take steps, as did Israel, to prevent such an attack in
  the future.
  
  For the same reason you don't laugh at a funeral. Many of their
 relatives are still alive and still mourning over the loved ones they
 lost in the camps. 
  
 I could not care what the Jews are doing over their past.
  
   I think you do care or you wouldn't post this crap.
  
   I do not
  expect the Jews to pay any particular respect for my dead relatives
  that died more than fifty years ago, even if they were murdered by
  somebody.
  
   If they showed the same disrespect to you that you show to them, you'd
  be pissed as hell.
  
  Why do the Jews keep bothering the world with their holocaust story
  after
  all these years?
  
   Because they don't want it repeated.
  
  Returning to the subject. What is a fetus? A human being or a subhuman
  being? If it you consider it a subhuman being, does that give you the
  right
  to kill it?
  
   I do not regard a fetus as human.
So that gives you and the government the right to justify killing it?
Hypocrite.



 There is no comparison whatever
  between what a woman decides to do with her own body and its contents
  and what went on at Auschwitz or any other concentration camp, Nazi or
  Communist. 
  
A fetus isn't a scab or abscess or a piece of crusted snot stuck in her nose.
You obviously fail to appreciate the difference.

   And please do not call be a nazi just because I refuse to believe in
  the holocaust.
  
   I call you a Nazi because of your hateful in-your-face attitude toward
  Jewish people.

No, you call this person a Nazi because it creates a scarecrow for you to set up.

 You certainly do have the right to express your beliefs
  or disbeliefs or, in this case, your obvious hatred for "the Jews",

And your obvious hatred and contempt for the unborn.

  just as a Communist has the right to burn the American flag. But, like
  the flag-burning Communist, you can damn well expect other people to be
  pissed as hell at you.
  


I was once in a bank and heard two Jewish people vehemently 
arguing over who was going to have the privledge of using the
telephone next.  Finally, one of the Jews screamed out-"You're
nothing but a Nazi!  A Nazi!"  All the customers in the bank turned
and simply stared at these two elderly Jews, wearing yarmulkas.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:09 PST 1996
Article: 83886 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:34:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  Robert@cartel.westfalen.de (Robert) writes:
  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
  
  In article , Robert@cartel.westfalen.de
  (Robert) wrote:
  
  [snip]
  
  I was trying to communicate (although i now know it didnt work;)
  (kinda hasty)
  that..the unborn human being is not a  part of the womans body but a
   new human being itself.
   
  
  Not until its viable, Robert.
 
Before that, it is a part of MY body.

It is not YOUR body.-rb
 
Sara
  
  that is not a very scientific statement
  personhood being a human being what ever
  doesnt depend on viability!
 Un new born baby is viabal (and would die
  without the mother)
  or would you expect a neglected hungry freezin
  unborn..to say (sheesh im tierd of this now)
  standing up getting some bug..driving to the drugstore
  for some baby food and diapers?
  Many poeple depend on medication to survive on glasses
  to wear what ever (doesnt mean that are not human beings)


  And still its not a part of your body;)..read a book about
 embreylogy:)
  
 Greetings from Germany
  
  Robert

How does this reflect on the horror of our time, when
expectant mothers turn into murderous beasts?-rb



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 08:07:09 PST 1996
Article: 83887 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: 1 Dec 1996 21:34:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  Robert@cartel.westfalen.de (Robert) writes:
  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
  
  In article , Robert@cartel.westfalen.de
  (Robert) wrote:
  
  [snip]
  
  I was trying to communicate (although i now know it didnt work;)
  (kinda hasty)
  that..the unborn human being is not a  part of the womans body but a
   new human being itself.
   
  
  Not until its viable, Robert.
 
Before that, it is a part of MY body.

It is not YOUR body.-rb
 
Sara
  
  that is not a very scientific statement
  personhood being a human being what ever
  doesnt depend on viability!
 Un new born baby is viabal (and would die
  without the mother)
  or would you expect a neglected hungry freezin
  unborn..to say (sheesh im tierd of this now)
  standing up getting some bug..driving to the drugstore
  for some baby food and diapers?
  Many poeple depend on medication to survive on glasses
  to wear what ever (doesnt mean that are not human beings)


  And still its not a part of your body;)..read a book about
 embreylogy:)
  
 Greetings from Germany
  
  Robert

How does this reflect on the horror of our time, when
expectant mothers turn into murderous beasts?-rb



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 09:25:48 PST 1996
Article: 83893 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 30 Nov 1996 02:04:06 GMT
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Here are a few tidbits to ponder:

In a June 4, 1937 circular notice sent to all commanders of concentration 
camps by the Chief Inspector of Concentration Camps, SS General Theodore 
Eicke, we find the following:

In a section headed "Mistreatment of Prisoners" Eicke announces that an SS 
Sergeant named Zeidler was being punished because "in a sadistic mood", he 
had struck a prisoner at the Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp "in a nasty 
way".  After demotion to the lowest SS rank, Zeidler was permanently 
dismissed from the SS and then turned over to as criminal court judge.
"This case will be known as a warning example", Eiche wrote.  "During 
instruction classes, attention should repeatedly be given to the consequences 
of mistreating prisoners.  Even a simple boxing of ears is already a 
mistreatment......In every case, the reputation of the SS is to be kept clean 
by dismissing the culprit."  Eicke further ordered that the various SS units 
be informed of the contents of the circular.


Also:

This headline appeared in the German newspapers in December 1937:

"Death Sentence for Murderer of a Jew.  The Third Reich guarantees protection 
of law for all residents.  Terrible crime punished."

A jury court in Stettin, the paper informed readers, had sentenced Josef 
Reinhardt to death for killing a Jewish businessman named Abraham and his 
non-Jewish wife.  One accomplice was sentenced to lofe imprisonment, and a 
second to six years imprisonment.  The report continued:

"That the victim was a Jew made no difference inn passing sentence, the 
presiding judge stressed.  The Third Reich is a state of law, in which Jews 
enjoy the protection of law every bit as much as other residents.  Murder is 
still murder, and will be punished most severely in each case."  Murder 
remained a crime during the war years.  Paragraph 211 of the revised German 
Penal Code (Published in October 1943)  defined murder without qualification 
about the victim's race, religion, or nationality, and designated capital 
punishment for those convicted of the crime.  German military regulations 
were even more strict.  The updated 1943 code spelled out severe punnishment 
for the soldier who carried out orders in violation of law.  "The 
subordinate....is punishable as a participant...when he knows that the 
superior's order would have the aim of leading to a military or other crime 
or violation."  (New York Review, Oct. 7, 1993, pp. 51-52.)

During the Nuremberg Trials of 1945-46, evidence was presented to show that 
German soldiers who had murdered civilians, including Jews, were severely 
punished.  (IMT "blue series" Vol. 42, pp. 238-242).

Extensive testimony and evidence was also supplied at Nuremberg by the 
testimony of two SS Judges:  Konrad Morgen and Judge Reinecke, both of whom
related many cases of severe punishment of SS men for violations of the law 
in the mistreatment of concentration camp prisoners.

Also, there are many documents written by the public prosecutor of Munich to 
Chief of Police Heinrich Himmler asking for full authority to investigate 
cases of murder and mistreatment by concentration camp staff at Dachau.  
Himmler gave the prosecutor complete authority to conduct all necessary 
investigations, and to arrest and charge any  SS guard who appeared 
to be guilty of violating the law.




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 09:25:49 PST 1996
Article: 83894 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:35:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 29 Nov 1996 22:12:30 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) writes:
>  >>  r@s.t (R) writes:
>  >>  >	It appears we have another koward here; afraid to report the
>  >>  >"crime" as his wild imagination would have it.  
>  
>  >>  	Tell me, when are you going to make good your threats to report Nizkor
>  >>  to Revenue Canada? Or do you just lack the cajones?
>  
>  >When are you going to admit your affiliation with a synagogue?
>  >Or don't you have the cajones, pendejo?
>  
>  Joseph Bellinger now joins the fruitcake brigade along with
>  Giwer.
>  
>  His research into Nizkor's background is as sloppy as the rest of
>  his research.
>  
>  
>>>>
Then you deny it?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 09:25:49 PST 1996
Article: 83900 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:21:40 GMT
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>   rakshasa@panix.com (Kevin Filan) writes:
>  In article <577n4t$1cvm$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>,
>  Gord McFee  wrote:
>  
>  >Perhaps Mark van Alstine understands what Mr. Blackmore pretends he doesn't:
>  >that the fate of the Germans, as terrible as it was, in a war which Germany
>  >willed and started, is irrelevant to this newsgroup.  Perhaps Mr. Blackmore
>  >should heed the advice of his hero, the drunken sot Giwer, and find a
>  >newsgroup where discussion of the war is on-topic.  He won't of course, since
>  >to do that would require a brain and a modicum of decency.
>  
>  	I personally don't have any objection to hearing stories about
>  atrocities committed against Germans during WW II.  While they're probably
>  off-topic for alt.revisionism, certainly they're no more off-topic than
>  discussions about Jewish control of "international finance" and "the world
>  media," Israeli human rights abuses, etc.  I would ask that the
>  "Revisionist" crew hold these stories to the same standard as they hold
>  testimony from Jews or other concentration camp survivors -- but I doubt I
>  will see that happen any time soon.
>  
>  	What I find funny is this; many of the "Revisionists" seem to feel
>  that we're "anti-German racists."  In their reality tunnel, it's
>  impossible to assume that there are actually _nonracists_ or
>  _anti-racists_.  Instead, everyone must be either an "anti-Jewish racist" 
>  or an "anti-German racist."  (The fact that no one seems to see any
>  "Holohugger" quotes advocating violence against Germans, calling Germans
>  inherently evil or violent, etc. doesn't seem to matter... but then, these
>  guys seem to have a little problem with inconvenient facts.
>  
>  Peace
>  Kevin Filan 
>  
>>>>
Well, I for one have never implied any of the above.  In fact, I simply
point out what appears to be a hypocritical double standard by Nizkor
devotees.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 09:25:50 PST 1996
Article: 83903 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:52:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
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>   uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : >  He will now begin with speculations about the suspicious fact 
>  : >  that most witnesses are dead now.
>  : >>>>
>  
>  : What will you begin with?  That they can be believed?  Sancta Simplissimus!
>  
>  Is it your acquaintance with the person, you know best, that you assume
>  everybody is just another liar? 
>  
>  And can you explain why some German administrator in occupied Ukraine 
>  would send an official report to his superiors about mass-killings of 
>  Jews which, according to your opinion, did not take place?
>  
>  u.roessler                                       uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
>  
>>>>
I did not say that all reports were contrived nor that people were
not shot in the USSR.  How does this prove the tale of the Holocaust
that 6 million jews were killed?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 10:59:01 PST 1996
Article: 83910 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Date: 30 Nov 1996 03:50:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  

>  
>  # I received the info from a Jewish researcher.
>  
>  The stupid, lying Nazi now blames a mysterious "Jewish
>  researcher" for the lies he posted. Just who is that
>  "Jewish researcher"? David Cole, maybe? Do tell us.

He was a Jew-like you.
>  
>  # And your hero Glazer never mentions Ukrainian SS
>  # guards.  Only SS in Green and Black uniforms.
>  
>  No, lying Nazi. Learn to read. According to what was
>  quoted, he said he saw SS-men AND black uniforms AND
>  green uniforms.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
And you now decide that they were germans and Ukrainians?
That's not what your liar said, silly fool.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 10:59:02 PST 1996
Article: 83912 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No3 LIAR
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:26:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
  # Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was
  # polluted.
  
  Not a good enough excuse. Think of something better.
  
  What is better than the truth?  You and I have different standards.
  
  # Mr. Giwer also makes a good point when he adds that the
  # British had to have provided some special filtering
  # apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.
  
  And where is this "special filtering apparatus" mentioned?
  
  Need it have been mentioned?  Use your God-given common sense
  Sometimes there is more than meets the eye......
  
  
  -Danny Keren.
  
  

  
  
  
 

   Keith Morrison  writes:
  Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
 
   rblackmore@juno.com writes:

 
    Answer:  rblackmore has evidently not researched it.  The modern
  treatment is nutrition and intenstive fluid replacement.  Kramer provided neither.  He
  cut off the water.  Medially speaking that was certain to kill those suffering from
  dystentery.
 
  Yes, this is what I have already said.  However, you have already stated that
  all Kramer need have done was removing the putrifying corpses from the
 stagnant water in the compounds and everyone could then guzzle water to their
  heart's content.....By the way, fluid replacement in this case would have to be
  administered intravenously.

         Where did the water the British supplied come from?
  
  Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?
  
  --
  Keith Morrison
>  >  t08o@unb.ca
>  >  
>  >>>>
>  Well, that's a clever reply.  And I suppose the food could have come
>  >from  your buttocks.....
>  
>  
>  From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Oct  2 08:16:30 PDT 1996
>  Article: 70785 of alt.revisionism
>  Path: 
>  nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hoo
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>  www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols
>  .com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sp
>  rynet.com!news
>  From: rblackmore@juno.com
>  Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>  Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
>  Date: 2 Oct 1996 08:36:43 GMT
>  Organization: Sprynet News Service
>  Lines: 20
>  Message-ID: <52t9ir$i6t@juliana.sprynet.com>
>  References: <52slmb$1soq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
>  Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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>  X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
>  
>  >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  >  In message <3250499C.1E8A@unb.ca> - Keith Morrison Mon, 30 Sep
>  >  1996 19:28:45 -0300 writes:
>  >  :>
>  >  :>> 
>  >  :>>         Where did the water the British supplied come from?
>  >  :>
>  >  :>Ice from Antarctica thoughtfully provided by the Nazi UFOnauts?
>  >  
>  >  That, or else it was carted in single-handed by l'il Erniekins Zuendel, at the
>  >  tender age of 5 or whatever.
>  >  
>  >  
>  >  --
>  >  Gord McFee
>  
>>>>
You will have to ask Mr. Zundel's publishing house about that one.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 12:08:02 PST 1996
Article: 83928 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I could have danced all Night
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:29:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Corporal Schwartz wrote of how a blonde Jewish
girl was onve asked to dance by none other than
Hans Frank.  Commenting in 1945, Cprl. Schwartz
wrote:

"The man she danced with was Hans Frank, who
as Governor of Poland during the war massacred
millions of Poles and obliterated the Warsaw Ghetto."

Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, p. 28.

Of course neither of Schwartz's allegations was
true.  He must have attended the same SHAEF
meetings as Chuckles Feree,


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 15:35:57 PST 1996
Article: 83928 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: I could have danced all Night
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:29:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Corporal Schwartz wrote of how a blonde Jewish
girl was onve asked to dance by none other than
Hans Frank.  Commenting in 1945, Cprl. Schwartz
wrote:

"The man she danced with was Hans Frank, who
as Governor of Poland during the war massacred
millions of Poles and obliterated the Warsaw Ghetto."

Seeds of Destruction, Cedric Belfrage, p. 28.

Of course neither of Schwartz's allegations was
true.  He must have attended the same SHAEF
meetings as Chuckles Feree,


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 15:35:58 PST 1996
Article: 83951 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: juhu, Mr. Blackmore
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:19:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
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>   weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : >   weinecks@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (Silke-Maria  Weineck) writes:
>  : >  We're waiting for your cites on memory.
>  : >  
>  : >  S.
>  : >  
>  : >>>>
>  : Don't wait too long....you might faint.
>  
>  Die from consumption, you mean?
>  
>  S.
>  
>>>>
Huh?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 15:35:59 PST 1996
Article: 83952 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Never Trust a Nazi (Re: never trust a confession)
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:21:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
  # There is no forensic evidence to prove that people 
  # were gassed by the Nazis.
  
  Incredibly enough, the lying Nazi apologist continues to make
  this claim, although even the "revisionists" admit that there
  are still cyanide compounds in the walls of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
  gas chambers.

I always admitted this as well, so why are you deliberately posting
misleading remarks, Doctor Keren?  The minute compounds found
in the walls at Auschwitz Birkenau were very minute and certainly not
evidence that millions of people were murdered there.  The compounds 
were consistent with the general practice of the Nazis to delouse all areas
regularly with Zyklon B.  You choose to attach a significant interpretation
to a common procedure in the camp.  It serves your purposes well.  In fact,
many of your posts seem to be self-serving.
  
  This makes the gassing in that camp one of only events in WW2
  for which there is forensic evidence.

Er-Dr. Keren, I, we, they, others disagree.
  
  There is, for instance, no forensic evidence to the bombing of
  Dresden, or to the alleged deaths of 3 million German civilians
  after the war.

Only the reports of the German Red Cross at the time along with
a score of photos....where are your photos of a gas chamber in
action?  The bodies we see in certain phots from Auschwitz died
as a result of the many dangerous epidemics which spread throughout
the camp.  Again you choose to attach sinister interpretations without
a shred of proof merely because it suits your present purposes, then
you try to twist things around and tell revisionsits it is their duty to prove
that things never happened the way you describe them.  Sorry, but  the
real world doesn't work that way-maybe your world does, but not reality.
You are accusing and you are prosecuting-it is up to you to provide the
proof.
  
  If the lying Nazi apologist believes there is such evidence, he
  is most welcome to tell us where it can be found. If not, and if
  he has any honesty whatsoever, he has to admit that, according
  to his own standards, these events never took place.
  	  
But how many honest Nazi apologists are there? None.

You identify me as a Nazi apologist so you make another unproveable
accusation.  My opinion differs from yours so you attach a
sinister label rather than provide proof for any of your remarks
Typical, and I am convinced that browsers can see through the tactics
with ease. 
  
rb  

  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 15:36:00 PST 1996
Article: 83961 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mass Murder at Kaunas?
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:08:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Concerning my post about an alleged mass murder of
3 thousand people ay Kaunas VII, quoted from
"The Good Old Days":

I was wondering if anyone ever excavated the site
to determine whether a crime of this magnitude ever
occurred?  I'll bet not............


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec  5 15:36:00 PST 1996
Article: 83970 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days 3....The Diary
Date: 4 Dec 1996 11:29:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  Chapter 3 is interesting in that it purports to show 
  photographic copies of a diary allegedly kept by 
  a German officer in a motorcycle battalion.  The first
  part of the diary is harmless enough, with tales of
  marching out to the strains of "Muss i denn, muss i denn,,,,
  
  Yet in the second half of the diary, when the soldier is
  supposed to be in Russia and a witness to horrible massacres,
  an odd thing occurs:  
  
  The first part of the diary is written in a completely different 
  script and handwriting than the second half, where all the
  alleged atrocitites are detailed.
  
>  Conclusion:  The second half of the diary is a phoney, or
>  else written by an entirely different person.  In any event, the
>  details alleged in the second half of the diary are unsubstantiated.
>  
>>>>
I see that I was criticized for writing the above.  However, what in
God's name are they nit-picking about?  As ALL may see, I clearly 
wrote:  

" it purports to show 
>  photographic copies of a diary allegedly kept by 
>  a German officer in a motorcycle battalion."

Of course the entries had to be written by someone.  They
weren't written by the whole battalion, silly people.  Someone
was assigned the task of maintaining the daily log of events.

Later, I wrote:

"  The second half of the diary is a phoney, or
>  else written by an entirely different person.  In any event, the
>  details alleged in the second half of the diary are unsubstantiated."

Likewise, these are apparent and are facts.  All this hubbub over
nothing.
>  


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:38 PST 1996
Article: 84009 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denier tactics: Quoting out of context; the case of Kurt Stele's .sig
Date: 3 Dec 1996 19:24:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   Marty Kelley  writes:
  For some time, "Kurt Stele" has been using the following quote as his
  .signature file:

snip


  This holds as true for first-person
  accounts of the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights movement, the American
  revolution, and the Teapot Dome scandal as it does for the Holocaust, and
  to imply, as "Stele" does, that Holocaust survivors are _more_ prone to
  such errors of subjectivity than other witnesses to historical events, is
  a deliberate twisting of Gringauz's purpose.
  
  I would like to thank Mr. "Stele" for giving me the opportunity to read an
  interesting series of articles that reflects the early state of Holocaust
  research.   I would also invite him to read the entire Gringauz article
  and ask himself if he is using the quote honestly.
  
  Posted to alt.revisionism and E-mailed to "Kurt Stele" and Nizkor.
  Followups to alt.revisionism, please. E-mailed  replies to this message
  will be posted to Usenet unless otherwise requested by sender<<<
  
  ----------------------
  Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)   
  
  "We are confronted by insurmountable opportunities"
>  					--Pogo
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
In all fairness, I don't think that Mr. Stele meant to imply that every
single witness to the Holocaust is a liar or was fantasizing.  I think
the every statement charging particularly serious crimes should be 
fully investigated.  The quote, whether from a sociologist or from Yad
Vashem, merely indicates the unreliability of survivor's testimony in general.
Another researcher told me about one year ago that Yad Vashem issued
a similar statement, but I cannot provide the evidence for that here.
Perhaps someone else can?  The alleged statement from Yad Vashem was
much more recent than Mr. Stele's quote.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:39 PST 1996
Article: 84016 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 3 Dec 1996 22:59:17 GMT
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>   mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <57nq48$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >Do you deny that there are or were forgeries and lies?  I am far
>  >from helpless.  i do not cry out "lies" or "forgeries" out of
>  >anguish or desperation.  Would you care to review some of these
>  >lies and forgeries?  if so, access Deja News and research all my
>  >posts under "Soviet Def Comedy Jam".  There are a number of them.
>  >Then come back and lets discuss it.
>  
>      Will you deal with the lies and forgeries discussed in my series of
>  articles, "Revisionist Def Comedy Jam?"  There are a number of them as
>  well.
>  
>      You have offered NO evidence that the documents posted here are
>  forgeries.  If you are claiming that the mere existence of some lies and
>  forgeries entitles you to call _everything_ a lie or forgery unless proven
>  genuine, then intellectual consistency (something you would do well to
>  learn) would require that you prove all your claims, since so many
>  revisionist claims have been shown to be falsified in some manner.

No.  I am not claiming this.  I have referred to this in e-mail and Mike has my
permission to post it, should he feel inclined.




From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:40 PST 1996
Article: 84027 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 5 Dec 1996 20:40:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <584msm$hkt@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
      mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
    In article <5823kj$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
    
        mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
       In article <57oa09$57u@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
       
    [snip]
     
    You are wrong again, as usual.  this is getting to be a habit with you.
    The use of poison gas was initiated by the French.
     
     Again, your source for this fallacious assumption is, Mr. Belling? What, I
     can't hear you... the cat got your tongue? 
 

  
  [snip]
  

 I gave you the source in a previous post.
 
  No, Mr. Bel;ling, that was an incomplete cite. Please give a full cittion:
  Author, title, page.
  
 
  

 As if you could care.......You have the source...research it.  I
 gave you the title, BTW.
  
  Mr. Belling, your continued evasion is quite telling of your inability to
  parroting fictions that something somebody else has fed you. 
  
  _If_, you posses the book that you claim says the French first initiated
  chemical warfare in WWI, it would be a small matter to spend a few minutes
  to find the exact page where this is noted. It would be a small matter of
  a few minutes to then post a full citation of this. 
  
  That you can't or won't simply indicates to me that you _don't_ have the
  book in question in your possesion. (It is also likely you _never_ had it
  your possession.) 

Then why have I quoted from it extensively in previous posts?

 Thus, the implication- at best -is that you are
  speaking about something off the top of your head and are mistaken, but
  refuse to admit this.

I will admit this is a possibility.

 Or, Mr. Belling, at worst you are dishonestly
  fabricating your claim out of thin air. (Probably due to your misplaced
  Germanophilla.) 

I wouldn't do that.  And my Germanophilla is not misplaced.  Would you expect
an Afro-American to not defend his heritage, if unjustifiable accused?  Would you
expect a Jew not to defend his, under similar circumstances?
  
  Either way, Mr. Belling, you childish evasions speak of a person with
  little or no integrity, intellectual honesty, or ethics....

How wrong you are.
  
  Hardly the kind of person that need be taken seriously in _any_ kind of forum. 

Then why do you bother to respond to my arguments?  Now, since you
have badgered me for the proof that the French began the use of 
poison gas I will give you the reference- in German.  

"Die Luege von deutschen Giftgasverbrechen im Ersten Weltkrieg
ist auferstanden im Zuge des Golfkrieges 1991, als Massenmedien
den angeblich drohenden Giftgaseinsatz durch Saddam 
Hussein mit den "deutschen Vergasungsverbrechen des Ersten
Weltkreiges" verglichen.

DaB die franzoesische und nicht die deutsche Seite mit dem
Einsatz von Giftgas begann, bestaetigte auch Arthur Ponsonby
in seinem......Buch:  

In allen franzoesischen Zeitungen wurde zu Beginn des Kreiges
festgestellt, daB die Schwierigkeiten in der Handhabung dieser
Bomben (mit Gas) ueberwunden und sie bestimmen Abschnitten
der franzoesische Front mit vortrefflichem Erfolg verwendet worden 
seien....Es stellte sich heraus, daB die Deutschen nicht die ersten
gewesen waren, die Giftgas verwendeten.  Turpins Entdeckungen
von giftigen Explosivstoffen wurden in der franzoesischen Presse
schon vorher angekuendigt, ebenso waren die amtlichen Anweisungen
des franzoesischen Kreigsministeriums ueber den Gebrauch von
Gashabdgranaten schon im Herbst 1914 erlassen worden.  

Auch Otto Stuelpnagel fuehrte den Nachweis ueber die Erstanwendung
der Gaswaffe durch Frankreich:

"Im Weltkreige sind Gaswaffen zuerst von Frankreich angewandt worden,
Die Grbrauchsanweisung des franzoesischen Kreigsministerium vom  21.
Februar 1915 hebt bereits die Notwendigkeit ausdruecklich hervor, dis
Gaswehrgranaten slavenweise zu verwenden.  Diese Massenwirkung
trat zum ersten Male am 22 April 1915 bei einem deutschen Angriff bei
Ypern praktisch in Erscheinung......Wieder war es Frankreich, das zuerst
mit einer reinen Gasgrenate, der Phosgen-Granate, ohne jede Sprengladung
im Fruehjahr 1916 hervortrat.  Diesen Geschossen gegenueber war Deutschland
berechtigt, auf Grund des voelkerrechtlich anerkannten Notstandes, ein
aehnliches GeschoB einzufuehren."

Source:  Vorsicht!  Faelschung!  Munich, 1994, pp/ 58,59.

So there is your source which you were clamoring for.  I shall leave it
to your colleagues to translate it for you.  Knowing your tactics as I do,
you would only accuse me of mistranslating the text.

Good luck, read it, and weep.




From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:41 PST 1996
Article: 84029 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Old Man Winter
Date: 4 Dec 1996 07:07:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Here is the treatment a respected and elderly 
>  >German Industrialist received from his beneficent
>  >American captors:
>  
>  [...]
>  
>  >Source:  The Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p.38.
>  
>  This story may or may not be true. What are *your* criteria
>  for supposing it to be true? You seem to have read it in a 
>  book. Fine, but you dismiss out of hand any number of 
>  Holocaust testimonies which have appeared in hundreds, nay
>  thousands of books. What makes C. Belfrage, who I notice 
>  doesn't even name this "respected and elderly German
>  Industrialist", worthy of your belief or mine?
>  
>  Did you believe the Auschwitz death march testimony I
>  posted yesterday? If not, why not?
>  
>>>>
I tried to locate the article you posted yesterday on Auschwitz
but I could not find it.  Would you mind e-mailing it to me?


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:42 PST 1996
Article: 84042 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:52:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <5827f2$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


  
  Nice try at putting the cart before the horse, Mr. Thomas, but not up to your
 usual standards.  Historians of the era, especially those well familiar with
  Himmler's voice, do not dispute that it is he who is speaking in the
  recording.

But one of his Generals did.

  David Irving and Robert Faurisson--the two darlings of
  "revisionists"-- have both admitted this.  Your former colleague in denierism,
  Friedrich Berg, has admitted that the voice is Himmler's. 

Berg?

 So, it is left to
  only a few loonies like the drunkard Giwer, and his impressionable disciple
  Blackmore, to whine that it's not the real goods.  Yet, neither of them has
  the guts to accept a simple challenge that will settle the matter and, if they
  are right, make them some money in the process.  I wonder why that would be?
  
  
  
  --
  Gord McFee
  I'll write no line before its time
  
  
>>>>
You claim the tape is authentic----you foot the bill.  I am now Giwer's
disciple?  When will it be "time" for you to write the truth?


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:43 PST 1996
Article: 84043 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 3 Dec 1996 21:52:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  Nice try at putting the cart before the horse, Mr. Thomas, but not up to your
>  usual standards.  Historians of the era, especially those well familiar with
>  Himmler's voice, do not dispute that it is he who is speaking in the
>  recording.  David Irving and Robert Faurisson--the two darlings of
>  "revisionists"-- have both admitted this.  Your former colleague in denierism,
>  Friedrich Berg, has admitted that the voice is Himmler's.  So, it is left to
  only a few loonies like the drunkard Giwer, and his impressionable disciple
  Blackmore, to whine that it's not the real goods.  Yet, neither of them has
  the guts to accept a simple challenge that will settle the matter and, if they
  are right, make them some money in the process.  I wonder why that would be?
  
  
  
  --
  Gord McFee
  I'll write no line before its time
  
  
>>>>
You claim the tape is authentic----you foot the bill.  I am now Giwer's
disciple?  When will it be "time" for you to write the truth?


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:43 PST 1996
Article: 84044 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 5 Dec 1996 20:51:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <587clf$3vp@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd41-183.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>  Would you propose that we should assume that the various witnesses
>  >>  cited in John Sack's AN EYE FOR AN EYE were fantasizing, then? How
>  >>  about the witnesses to the alleged firebombing of Dresden?
>  >>  
>  >I would suggest that Shlomo's hiding out doesn't look good
>  >for him.
>  
>  What do you mean by "hiding"? Sack had several conversations with
>  him. Does the fact that he happens to live in Israel suffice for
>  you to consider him a criminal? Well, yes, I suppose it does....
>  
>>>>
No, the fact that he murdered children suffices for me to consider
him a criminal.  And you?  What's your excuse?



From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:44 PST 1996
Article: 84045 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 5 Dec 1996 21:18:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <587e7o$528@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd10-153.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <584qgi$mp0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  Mr. Belling, your continued inability to master your newsreader is quite
>  appalling. Is there some problem on your part? Perhaps a bit of remedial
>  help is in order? That you are mangling the formatting of the text and
>  often eliminating or invalidating the attribution characters, is confusing
>  the discussion. Please, have the common courtesy to properly format your
>  posts to maintain the proper attributions. 

I must inform you that when I send them from my screen, they look
absolutely fine...what exactly is happening?
>  
>  [Text snipped due to Mr. Belling's mangling of the text, I can no longer
>  determine the proper attributions and assume the text is corrupted....]
>  
>  When you have properly mastered your newsreader and repost your reply, Mr.
>  Belling, I would be more than happy to address whatever issues may have
>  raised....

I have no idea what I posted now.  As I said I don't know what is happening as
it looks fine at this end.




From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 04:16:45 PST 1996
Article: 84065 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Ms. Alpert-"A Shooting at Ilkenau"
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:06:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
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NNTP-Posting-Host: hd03-061.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

In response to your comment on the shooting of
Tadeusz Lupa at Ilkenau from "The Good Old Days"

I was just wondering whether you ever stopped to 
consider that Tadeusz Lupa ran because he committed
the crime?  No one else made any attempt to flee-perhaps
because they were simply innocent.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:35 PST 1996
Article: 84102 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 4 Dec 1996 20:28:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <584msm$hkt@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
 In article <5823kj$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
    In article <57oa09$57u@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
    
   [snip]
    
   You are wrong again, as usual.  this is getting to be a habit with you.
   The use of poison gas was initiated by the French.
    
    Again, your source for this fallacious assumption is, Mr. Belling? What, I
    can't hear you... the cat got your tongue? 


>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > >>>>
>  > I gave you the source in a previous post.
>  
>  No, Mr. Bel;ling, that was an incomplete cite. Please give a full cittion:
>  Author, title, page.
>  

>  
>>>>
As if you could care.......You have the source...research it.  I
gave you the title, BTW.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:36 PST 1996
Article: 84105 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 4 Dec 1996 10:10:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5821jd$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article ,
  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
  
 In article <57njvc$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
 
 
 This itself is a lie, propagated by a puppet for a synagogue in Canada.

 Isn't it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
 nonsense? He's been beautifully trained, hasn't he?
  
>  > >  > Bet he can sit up and beg, too.
>  > >  >  
>  > >  > Sara
>  > >  
>  > >  I'm working on it.... };-> 
>  > >  
>  > >  Mark
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > The report came from Zundel, as you well know.  Woof Woof
>  
>  Good boy! Now beg! 
>  


Are you having fun, little boy?


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:37 PST 1996
Article: 84114 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 5 Dec 1996 19:49:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <5878vj$t8j@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <583ppm$1200$14@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <58216a$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com3 Dec 1996
  20:05:30 GMT writes:
  
   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
 In article <57srbq$pai@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
 [snip]
 
  I am not playing games.  The recording should have been subjected to
  analysis years ago.
  
  Well, here's your chance.  We can subject the tape to
 the analysis that no historian thought was necessary.


It wasn't historians who subjected the tape to analysis.  It
was your impartial court and its team of investigators at Nuremberg.
I, for one, find it amazing that your colleagues spent all sorts of money
on estabishling whether the Emil Lachout documents were authentic, yet
never once thought of examining the Himmler tape, which is much more
important....Hmmmm....says something about standards, wouldn't you think?
  
  The authenticity of the Himmler recording has been disputed by no serious
  historian, and has in fact been accepted by David Irving and Robert Faurisson,
  two of the "revisionist" leading "scholars".  It has also been accepted as
  genuine by Friedrich Berg, who posted here before your time, and not only was
  a "revisionist", he was an out-and-out Nazi, native German speaker who lived
  through the war.
  
    Isn't this the kind of forensic analysis you deniers
    are always screaming for?
    
    Coward.
  
  Name caller.  In any event, the comments, even if true, only prove
  that people were shot on the eastern front during the course of the
  partisan warfare campaign and this is nothing new...It certainly does
  not point to an allegation where Jews were being murdered en masse
by lethal gas.
  
  you will attempt to cook the books as to what it means?  If it is as phoney as
  you claim, what does it matter what the words mean?

Actually, I have always maintained this interpretation, whether in previous
posts or in private e-mail correspondence.
  
  ....However, what will this prove?  A clever interpolator,
    >using the same equipment available at the time, could have easily doctored
  the tape....that is something that can or never will be proven, unless the
guilty party would confess to the deed....

  And what understanding do you have of recording technology,
  mr. Blackmore?  If you are concernd that a clever forger 
  would elude the analytical skill of the experts, why don't 
  you contact some experts and ask them about it?

Well, I really don't consider it all that important.  Having been a professional
musician for many years, I know a bit about recording techiques, but 
I am not claiming to be an expert in the field by any means.
>  :>
>  :>The experts were the ones who may have forged the recording to
>  :>begin with,  The time for investigation should have been when the
>  :>tape was offered into evidence-not 50 years later.
>  
>  The recording was made 52 years ago.  The level of "forging" to pull this one
>  off did not exist yet, as I am sure you know. 

This would really not have been difficult, if the forgers had two machines to
work with, as I am sure they did.  And I know from personal contacts, that
forgeries were rather commonplace among the investigators.

 In any event, the independent
>  analysis would eliminate any such possibility.

Well, yes.  However, I have indicated that I do not regard the speech as 
particularly damaging in the overall sense that it is invariably taken.  If 
someone should undertake to determine the authenticity of this recording,
that would be fine with me.  I know you have not overlooked my point that the
time to examine the authenticity of this recording was when it was placed into
evidence at Nuremberg-not fifty years later.  But it does tell us a bit about
the procedures of the IMT.







From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:38 PST 1996
Article: 84132 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:51:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <588ja4$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <585jul$1f8e$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:



  
  The "leading German general" was Oswald Pohl, if memory serves, and since he
  was greatly expecting to have his neck stretched big time for his role in the
  Final Solution, it is not surprising that he tried to distance himself from
  the speech, which he saw "live" by the way.

No.  The leading General was Berger.  Pohl simply said he didn't know what the
hell Himmler was talking about.
  
  The tape was never subjected to analysis at the time to determine if
  it was authentic.
  
  It didn't have to be, since everyone who knew Himmler agreed it was genuine.

Well, that is a foolish answer of I ever heard one, and I would not have expected it
>from  you. I already gave you two sources close to Himmler who questioned it.  This is
avoiding the issue.  And the issue is that the tape should have been subjected
to analysis at the time it was placed into evidence.- You might want to provide us
with a list of people who knew Himmler and agreed that it was genuine, just for
argument's sake.-rb


>  It did not resurface after 45 years.-GM

Afraid it did.-RB
>  
>  :>Lets look at it this way now:
>  :>
>  :>Jewish people have been accused by many authors of baking
>  :>blood into matzoh during the course of alleged ritual murder.
>  :>Would anyone hold it reasonable to now begin subjecting maztzoh
>  :>cakes around the world to chemical analysis?  And how much
>  :>more absurd it would be if we expected the jewish people to pay
>  :>for this task.
>  
>  Your analogy means that you are a Nazi, since you are attempting to claim that
>  the person denying the fact must pay the cost of disproving it.  Thanks for
>  the admission, although I expect it was unintentional.

What you write is silly.-rb





From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:38 PST 1996
Article: 84139 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:56:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <588jit$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <582s7b$3pp@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : You claim the tape is authentic----you foot the bill. 
>  
>  Chicken.
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
The comments on the tape are insignificant.  Why should I pay
to prove you and your ilk losers, which is what I  am aware of
anyway. -rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:39 PST 1996
Article: 84142 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Jackson Nuremberg cite (Disintegrator ray)
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:11:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <588kfk$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  Joseph Belling, under the name rblackmore@juno.com, in
>  <57ud5c$ano@juliana.sprynet.com> writes:
>  
>  >Mr. Morris, of course, is in error, as the Germans would hardly
>  >have used this alleged incident of mass murdering Jews outside
>  >of Auschwitz. in an effort to "build up the morale", or induce
>  >German citiaens to believe in the imminent appearance of "mystery weapons".
>  
>  Why not? BTW, as I pointed out previously, it's not clear from 
>  Speer's testimony, although it is suggested by Jackson's 
>  question, that the German government had anything to do with this
>  story. What is in question is whether Jackson charged anyone with
>  the use of this weapon. Now, one doesn't need a law degree to
>  know that a prosecutor's examination does not constitute 
>  "charges". If Jackson did charge Speer or anyone else with using
>  that weapon, you should be able to quote these charges.
>  
>  >The fact is that Jackson spoke in a voice dripping with sarcasm,
>  >and it is very clear that he for one believed the reports.
>  
>  Oh, golly, you have the tape? Have you submitted it to laboratory
>  examination? What was its provenance? How do you know it's
>  authentic?
>  
>>>>
You'll have to pay for it....


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec  6 17:44:40 PST 1996
Article: 84143 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:05:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <588k51$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a6875a.79635317@news.zilker.net>
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  tutu101@aol.com wrote:
>  
>  >You have only quoted one case, Mr. Keren.  One carrot in boiling water
>  >does not make a stew.
>  
>  That's what the prisoners in the camps said.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
But it was a BIG CARROT, 
Mike.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 09:54:47 PST 1996
Article: 84220 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:21:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <588l1i$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>  
>  # When looking at the 1944 photograph of Treblinka, keep in mind
>  # there is Holocaust accounting that has the camp as being over-run
>  # by the Soviets while it was still in full operation.
>  
>  Tommy, according to all sources I have seen, the camp was
>  partially destroyed in the August 1943 sonderkommando rebellion,
>  and later that year dismantled by the SS. This was long before
>  the Soviets liberated the area.
>  
>  Perhaps you're confusing Treblinka and Maidanek?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Perhaps you're confusing these labor camps with death camps?-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 09:54:48 PST 1996
Article: 84257 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Treblinka mass graves
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:34:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <588l1i$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  > >  tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>  > >  
>  > >  # When looking at the 1944 photograph of Treblinka, keep in mind
>  > >  # there is Holocaust accounting that has the camp as being over-run
>  > >  # by the Soviets while it was still in full operation.
>  > >  
>  > >  Tommy, according to all sources I have seen, the camp was
>  > >  partially destroyed in the August 1943 sonderkommando rebellion,
>  > >  and later that year dismantled by the SS. This was long before
>  > >  the Soviets liberated the area.
>  > >  
>  > >  Perhaps you're confusing Treblinka and Maidanek?
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  -Danny Keren.
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > Perhaps you're confusing these labor camps with death camps?-rb
>  
>  And perhaps Mr. Belling is just plain "confused?" 
>  
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>

As to why you believe what you do--yes.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 09:54:49 PST 1996
Article: 84258 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:33:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
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>   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  

Simply referring to the main points as I see it:

I have seen photos of the corpses which were introduced in
evidence at the Naztweiler trial, and a number of the victims
were Asian and uncircumcised.  Thus, they were not Jews,
as you claimed.  

Two, it is not unusual for an Institute of Anatomy to have dismembered
or even decapitated corpses.

Three, if a gas chamber was built, it could very well have been a legal
gas chamber to carry out executions of criminals.

four, logic tells me that it would have been both superfluous and foolish
to construct a gas chamber when the victims could have been easily
despatched with a phenol injection.  This is the weakest part of your
tale.

five, you have no order requisitioning cyanide by Dr. Hirt.  Just because 
you say he could have done it easily does not make it so, nor would it
suffice in any impartial court of law as evidence.

six, Dr.  Hirt mysteriously vanished, which makes the concoction of a 
phoney story all the easier.-rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 14:21:07 PST 1996
Article: 84300 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3 million Germans?
Date: 7 Dec 1996 19:01:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  Joseph Belling, under the name rblackmore@juno.com, in
>  <58789l$t8j@juliana.sprynet.com>, writes, refusing, as usual, to
>  give a source for his lies:
>  
>  rb>Too simple for you to ever understand, Miss Flower.  I am through casting
>  rb>pearls before swine.
>  
>  Curious. Now that we know you're a man, you're bitchier than 
>  ever.
>    
>  rb>  As usual, I will have to embarass you again, Miss Flower.  Do try
>  rb>to keep those knickers up.  First of all, let's take this:  You attempted
>  rb>to discredit me by posting the following:
>  
>  rb>rb> Yes.  I will suggest one.  "An Eye for an Eye" bu Jewish author John
>  rb>rb> Sack, who details the murder of more than 3 million German civilians
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  rb>rb> after the end of the war by Jewish mass murderers, many of whom are
>  rb>rb> still wanted for their crimes and are hiding out in Israel today.
>  
>  rb>I never wrote that Sack used the figure of 3 million.  That figure has already
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  rb>been published by many other sources, most notably the German Government,
>  rb>whose files I referred you to.....What I wrote was simply my own commentary-
>  rb>do try to get things STRAIGHT, Miss Flower....even if you aren't so yourself.
>      
>  I don't have to discredit you. If you had even half a brain,
>  you'd see that you've just rather neatly discredited yourself.
>  
>  
>>>>
I fail to appreciate your point.  I have done no such thing except in
your little fantasy world.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 14:21:07 PST 1996
Article: 84302 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: 7 Dec 1996 19:28:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>  
>  Who else is a hero of yours?  "Frank Walus"?
>  
>  					-- Jake --
>  -- 
>  ************************************************************
>  Jacob D. Goldstein                                         
>  jake@tasc.com                    TASC
>  Voice: (617)942-2000             55 Walkers Brook Drive
>    Fax: (617)942-9507             Reading, MA 01867 
>  
>>>>
Frank Walus--another accused witch in the twentieth century revival
of the inquisition.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 14:21:08 PST 1996
Article: 84303 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Ms. Alpert-"A Shooting at Ilkenau"
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:19:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 44
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  Annie Alpert  writes:
 rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
   
   In response to your comment on the shooting of
   Tadeusz Lupa at Ilkenau from "The Good Old Days"
   I was just wondering whether you ever stopped to
   consider that Tadeusz Lupa ran because he committed
  the crime?  No one else made any attempt to flee-perhaps
   because they were simply innocent.
  
  _I_ was just owndering if _you_ ever stopped to consider that Tad Lupa
  ran even though he didn't commit any crime (except the crime of being
  Jewish)?  Based on the sketchy description in the excerpt, you can
  hardly draw any conclusions.

Of course I thought about it.  However, since the rest of the
village's population didn't run, I rejected your interpretation.-RB

  BTW, what is your opinion of an invading army coming into a village that
  is 50% Jewisha nd 50% Christian?  What is your opinion of that army
  rataliating on an attack of one of their members by persons unknown by
  dragging the Jewish residents of the town out in the street and
  murdering  some of them and sending the rest of them to a slave and
  extermination camp?-AA

Well, it wasn't an "attack".  A man was murdered.  Do you approve of that?
I am opposed to the taking of hostages, but I understand that such
was permitted by the Geneva Convention or the Hague...I know that
the French had a policy announced that for every Frenchman killed
or assassinated, 10 Germans would be shot in retaliation.  As to the
rest of your comments, I don't believe it was the German army, but
the Security Police.  Also, the rest of the population wasn't deported
until a few years later, so it had nothing to do with the incident in
question, so why don't we stick to that for now?-RB
  
  Is that ok with you?-AA

The way you describe it, of course not.-RB  
  -- 


>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 14:21:09 PST 1996
Article: 84322 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Good Old Days,4: Mass Shooting at Paneriai
Date: 6 Dec 1996 20:21:04 GMT
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There seems to be little doubt that hundreds of Jewish males
between the ages of twenty-five and sixty-five  were
executed at Paneriai, Lithuania in July, 1941.  There also is little 
doubt that Lithuanian nationals were responsible for the mass
shootings.  

As corroboration, a number of German witnesses gave written
depostions in 1959.  They gave an approximate number of
800 Jewish males shot.  There also seems to have been two
photos taken at the scene of the execution, which the book
reproduces.  It should be noted that no women and children
were shot at this site.  Another fact of interest is that the photos
show NO German uniforms.  The executioners were all Lithuanians.

When asked by a German witness to the shootings
 why the Jewish men were being executed, the following
reasons were given by the exectioner/s:

"....after what we've gone through under the domination of
Russian Jewish Commissars, after the Russians invaded 
Lithuania,  we no longer find it difficult."  The man went on
to say that he had been suspected of spying by the Russians.
He had been arrested and had been thrown in and out of 
various GPU prisons, although he was in no way guilty.
He said he had only been a lorry driver and never harmed
a soul.  One of the methods the Soviets allegedly used to
make him confess was to tear out his fingernails.  He told the
German that each of the Lithuanian guards present had had
to endure the most extreme suffering.  He went on to say that
a Jewish Commissar, (In a scene reminiscent of the movie "Braveheart"),
had broken into a flat, tied up a man and raped his wife before the
man's very eyes.  Afterwards the Commissar had literally butchered
the wife to death, cut out her heart, fried it in a pan, and then ate it.

According to another man, a German soldier had been shot dead by a
sniper from a church tower, and for that reason, another 400 Jews were
to pay the extreme penalty.

Comment:  It is clear that this was a "mob" action albeit a well-organized mob,
and one cannot reason with a mob.  If the Lithuanian's story about the
Commissar was true, that is certainly no justification for what they were doing. 
 In fact, one of the Jewish victims was able to speak briefly to the
German witness, remarking that he was only a composer.  The Lithuanians
 may indeed have suffered at the hands of the Soviets, and, yes,
some of them may have been Jewish.

However, I must say that the courts were the place to decide guilt or innocence.
On the other hand, Vilna was a hotbed of partisan activity, and many of the
partisans were Jews.  The murder of the German soldier should also have been
investigated and punished through proper channels.  The 400 to 1 ration was
not standard German procedure.  The fact that these killings took
place in a war zone does not help matters when seeking a rational
answer for an irrational act, as war itself is irrational and inhumane.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 17:12:55 PST 1996
Article: 84344 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Truth About Jews
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:10:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:


 
  If telling the truth is corrupting, then I guess I'm guilty. But you need
  to go farther than the Cliff Notes and Bible Comix if you want to engage in
  serious debate here.
  
  Sara


You corrupt the truth every day, Sara, but it has nothing to do with Jesus.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 17:12:55 PST 1996
Article: 84347 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Truth About Jews
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:09:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:

.
>  
>  If telling the truth is corrupting, then I guess I'm guilty. But you need
>  to go farther than the Cliff Notes and Bible Comix if you want to engage in
>  serious debate here.
>  
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
You corrupt the truth every day, Sara, but it has nothing to do with Jesus.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec  7 17:52:01 PST 1996
Article: 84356 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Is 'rblackmore' Up To? (Re: Blackmore lies again  (Was
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:19:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <588kto$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree writes:
>  
>  Betcha a beer this weirdo is a child molester.Hope his niece tells her 
>  mommy on him.

You're a pathetic old fart with a filthy mouth, Chuck.
And all the beer in the world won't clean it out.. You fit
in nicely with Nizkook supporters.  Here is one of the guys
who was making the world safe for democracy.




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 07:16:29 PST 1996
Article: 84399 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dresden
Date: 6 Dec 1996 20:24:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Was this author there, Miss Flower?  Or is he simply another dilletante,
>  >like you?
>  
>  I don't think he was there, Joe, but since he works as Professor of
>  History at the University of Florida, and has written several volumes
>  on German aside from UNDER THE BOMBS, he would not exactly fit my
>  definition of a "delettante", either.
>  
>  Why? Were you at Dresden during the bombing? If so, why aren't you 
>  dead? I recall you saying that God was at Auschwitz because there were
>  survivors, but he was absent from Dresden--so there must have been none
>  there, right?
>  
>  Do you think a Dresden survivor would have been the best source for
>  a body count? If so, would you accept a body count from an Auschwitz
>  survivor as valid? I seem to recall you specifically making fun of 
>  body counts which originated from survivors. Personally, I would be
>  skeptical of such counts as well, though I certainly would not have 
>  the atrocious taste to make fun of them. Do you think we should make
>  fun of the testimony of Dresden survivors as you do of Holocaust 
>  survivors?
>  
>>>>
It depends on the nature of the testimony.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 07:16:30 PST 1996
Article: 84430 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 7 Dec 1996 12:56:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  In article <588hv4$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >>  On 5 Dec 1996 20:40:34 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>  >Good luck, read it, and weep.
>  >>  
>  >>  Ha! I hardly think so, Mr. Bellinger. That you can find one book
>  >>  that claims the French initiated the gas warefare in WWI is
>  >>  hardly surprising. That you would present it as fact or believe
>  >>  it is another matter.
>  >
>  >That your mind is closed tighter than a bank vault is not surprising to
>  >me or anyone who reads these posts.  The fact is, the book quotes
>  >more than one reliable source to more than prove the facts.  Only a
>  >narrow minded bigot would dismiss these facts out of hand.-rb
>  
>  Blackmore produces one book claiming that the french used 
>  poison gas first, and he expects us to take it on gospel.
>  
>  Others in this forum cite many volumes, produce documents,
>  photos, confessions, memoirs, forensic data, recorded
>  speeches, and diaries that detail the Nazi policy to 
>  exterminate Jews.  Despite all this evidence, Blackmore
>  considers the Holocust to be a fraud.
>  
>  And yet Mr. Blackmore sees no contradiction between these
>  two positions.
>  
>  - Brian
>  
>  
>>>>
That's because there isn't any.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 07:16:31 PST 1996
Article: 84433 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:04:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree writes:
>  
>  Put up or shut up, turkey.
>  
>  snips
>  
>  
>  
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > > 
>   (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
>  
>  > >  >
>  > >  >   [snip]
>  > >  >
>  > >  >  The best proof that _anything_  that Dr. Keren posts is true  is that
>  > >  >  Mr. Blackmore denies it.
>  > >
>  clips
>  
>  
>  > >
>  > >>>>
>  > If this is at all possible, I know less about what nonsense you are
>  > posting than you do!
>  
>  Say What? See I asked you to read your post to make sure they made 
>  sense to you, and you just won't listen. Yhe syntax is as gobbled as 
>  the logic.
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>>>>
As is your spelling----or typing----or whatever.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 07:16:32 PST 1996
Article: 84434 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Of Course Blackmore Doesn't call folks names
Date: 7 Dec 1996 12:55:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <58bpfj$id@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  
  Blackmore wrote to Danny Keren:
  That Little ole name caller, Danny Keren.-rb

Danny wrote to Blackmore first:  Dirty Nazi Scum....Nazi
boy.....
  
  To Ken Lewis Blackmore writes:
   Only a
  narrow minded bigot would dismiss these facts out of hand.-rb

Ken wrote to Blackmore first:  Nazi apologist....liar...
  
  And in another post:
  Are you really such a simpleton?=RB
  
  And another:
  Forget it, Ken.  You and your Holokookdom empire is crumbling.
  You can take your indisputable and insurmountable evidence
  and go peddle it elsewhere.  Peddle it to people who need to
  hear it as reassurance- to people who live in a fantasy
  world inhabited by boorish bigots like yourself.-RB

And I echo that same sentiment now.
  
  To Chuck Ferree who does dish it out but this doesn't mean tha
  Blackmore/Ehrlich has to dive into the same muck. :
  Chuckles-go play with your tonka trucks and leave the writing
  of history to diletantes like Miss Flower.

As to Chuckles Fairy and Miss Flower-they're two of a kind.
Tea for two, and two for tea,.....Tiptoe thru the tulips.......
  
  In another:
  You're a pathetic old fart with a filthy mouth, Chuck.
  And all the beer in the world won't clean it out.. You fit
  in nicely with Nizkook supporters.  Here is one of the guys
  who was making the world safe for democracy.

Why didn't you post what Chuckles said to elicit those comments?
  
  Blackmore To Danny Keren:
  
  Silly man.

Indeed.  Hateful man is more like it.  He makes Kramer look like
a saint.
  
  Blackmore To Sara:
  
  Silly woman.  Why do post things that make you look
  more the fool every day?

Indeed.  Read her posts.
  
  And in another:
   Isn't it wonderful how well Mr./Ms/Blackmore/Belling parrots the Giwer
  nonsense? He's been beautifully trained, hasn't he?
   
 To which Sarah responds: 
   Bet he can sit up and beg, too.
  
  To which Blackmore lewdly retorts:
  Is that what your husband has to do?=rb

I thought that one was rather good myself......
 She refers to me as a dog and I am
supposed to lick her hand or some other part of her
anatomy....I don't think so.
  
  But is any of this necessary if Blackmore claims he wants to further
  discussion?

Well, then, ask your friends to cease and desist with their
unwarranted insults and provocations and you will all 
see what a gentleman I am and always have been.
You know, this sort of nonsense could go on indefinitely
if I let it.  Everyone can see what a hypocrite you are being,
and everyone can read for themselves the many filthy insults
and lewd innuendoes posted by your friends and colleagues,
not only against myself, but against anyone who disagrees with their
opinions.  And yes, I will return insult for insult, as I have returned many of
your insults in the past.  So don't play the pius preacher Michael,
it doesn't become you.


"Let's just stick with the facts, Ma'm."--Jack Webb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 07:16:33 PST 1996
Article: 84435 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 7 Dec 1996 12:57:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <58bpkh$id@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a89223.19790210@news.spry.com>
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 6 Dec 1996 07:28:36 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >Forget it, Ken.  You and your Holokookdom empire is crumbling.
>  >You can take your indisputable and insurmountable evidence
>  
>  Ha! Certainly not by any evidence [sic] you or any other liar,
>  denier posts in this forum.
>  
>  >and go peddle it elsewhere.  Peddle it to people who need to
>  > hear it as reassurance- to people who live in a fantasy
>  > world inhabited by boorish bigots like yourself.-RB
>  
>  Sorry, Mr. Bellinger, it is increasingly evident to all who read
>  this newsgroup, that the bigot is you. You have lost every
>  agrement you have engaged in (if you haven't run away first) and
>  the sources you quote make you look pretty silly, if not down
>  right stupid. One book misstating the facts of WWI do not a
>  historical fact make.
>  
>  Your nazi apologia and knee-jerk defense of all things German in
>  defiance of the mountains of contrary and accepted evidence paint
>  you as, well, either a nazi apologist or a first class idiot.
>  While you usually come across as the former I lean towards the
>  latter..
>  
>  Let's see you get anything published and accepted into any
>  legitimate historical journal to the effect that the French
>  initiated gas warfare in WWII. 
>  
>  I think you may have a career ahead of you at Noontide Press.
>  
>  Bellinger, I have become convinced that you are indeed a fool.
>  
>  
>>>>
What are you going to be when you grow up, Ken?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 07:16:34 PST 1996
Article: 84436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:02:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <58bpt6$id@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a92fe0.5529980@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:


  

This does not seem to be a quote from Kramer's diary. In fact,
it isn't.
  
  You are right: it is from the testimony of Dr. Johann Kremer. With an
  'e'.

Oh, dear me!  How could I have made that error.  Well, you win on
the spelling and I win on the argument.
  
  Try to read for comprehension.
  
    It is Kramer's statement at his trial in 1947 in Crakow.
  
>  >No it is from the trial testimony of Johann Kremer at Frankfurt, not
>  >Joseph Kramer.
>  
>  As some kind soul has pointed out to me in private e-mail, the excerpt
>  in question *is* from Johann Kremer's trial testimony in Crackow.
>  
>  Kremer was deported to Germany and convicted on additional charges
>  with his time served in Poland deducted from his sentence. After his
>  release, Kremer, having been punished for his crimes, appeared as a
>  witness at the Frankfurt trial. He told the same story in his diary,
>  at Crackow, and at Frankfurt.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
So I was right after all.  But God forbid that you should ever admit
that!  By the way, he told the same story with the exception that
his diary never mentions gas chambers.  And of course he told the same
story--10 years imprisoned in a Polish dungeon and then re-tried in Germany
when he was released--of course he'll say anything rather than go back to
prison.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 08:37:32 PST 1996
Article: 84446 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:06:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <58bq3r$id@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <589jgf$9pr@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  ibokor (ibokor@metz.une.edu.au) wrote:
>  
>  : His name would not be Hank Reichhorn by any chance?
>  : You know, the grandson of the hief Rabbi of France in 1859
>  : whose son migrated to the USA during the Dreyfuss affair
>  : because he was afraid of retribution for he crimes of
>  : that Jewish officer?
>  
>  Actually, Rabbi Reichorn's son migrated to Poland during the Dreyfus
>  affair because he knew that as the real author of the Protocols,
>  he'd be in danger in France.  His son, Schlomo Reichorn, was smuggled
>  out of Germany by the Stern Gang in 1943, along with six million other
>  Jews.  After the war, they were shipped to New York to replace the 
>  bow-tie wearing Jews.  Hank is Schlomo's son.
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
Your comments are about as funny as Belsen.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 08:37:34 PST 1996
Article: 84447 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:05:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <58bq2d$id@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <583pho$hk3$2@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  : >  
>  : >  You hear the familiar sound of a coward slithering away.
>  : >  
>  : I didn't know you could make such sounds, Gord.
>  
>  
>  He can't personally.
>  What he does is to play a tape recording
>  of your movements.
>  If you have any doubts about the authenticity
>  of this recording, we could have it analysed.....
>  
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Silly little person.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 08:37:34 PST 1996
Article: 84448 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 7 Dec 1996 13:07:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <58bq78$id@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <589jpd$9pr@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  
>  Mr. Belling wrote:
>  
>  > yet never once thought of examining the Himmler tape,
>  > which is much more important....Hmmmm....says something 
>  > about standards, wouldn't you think?
>  
>  And then, just a few days later, he wrote:
>  
>  > The comments on the tape are insignificant.
>  
>  
>  New orders from the home office, Mr. Belling?
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
Yep, OberGruppenfuehrer Raven.  And what of your orders
>from  Tel Aviv?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 12:02:20 PST 1996
Article: 84464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!visi.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belling sees trap, dives in
Date: 7 Dec 1996 19:15:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <58cfou$h49@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad69-134.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  Joseph Belling, posting as rblackmore@juno.com, writes in
  <58777d$t8j@juliana.sprynet.com> in response to the "Auschwitz
  death march survivor's story" I posted:
  
  And what you need, Miss Flower, is a lesson in honesty, because this
whole narrative comes from John Sack's book "An Eye for an Eye".
  
  I never denied that it did. I said that it was reconstructed from 
  conversations with Holocaust survivor Lola Potok, which is 
  essentially true--reconstructed by John Sack. (I fudged slightly,
  as Sack used several other sources as well for this portion.)

You "fudged" and soiled yourself in the process,
 and it doesn't smell so good, either.
 Well, now people may see what sort of person
 you are-a man without princiiples.-rb
  
  The next time you try and trick me, let us all know in advance, so I
won't have to embarass you like this again.-rblackmore
  
  This is very strange. Yes, I did try to trick you, supposing that
  you had never cracked open Sack's book.

Never try to suppose for me--or second guess me.  Your 
duplicity here was shameful.-rb 
  
  As it turns out, you actually did make it to page 3 (the 
  narrative is from pages 2 and 3).
  
  And you *still* put your foot in it, or rather dived in headfirst. 

The narrative most certainly is not from page 3.  Another lie by a liar.-rb

  
  Your message characterizes various details of Sack's narrative as
  "a clear literary rip off", "a clear fabrication", "not too 
  credible", "most likely a lie", and "Another lie". I must 
  emphasize that Sack does not in any way qualify the narrative: it
  is clearly what he believes, and what he intends the reader to 
  believe. He presents the story not as something someone told him, 
  but as the truth. (Contrast Sack's treatment of the death march 
  story with his attempt to cast aspersions on the claim that Czeslaw
  Geborski was a Roman Catholic, p. 131.) If Sack's sources are lying 
  (and despite your various sneers, specious arguments, and historical 
  fantasies, I find no reason to believe they are), then Sack is at 
  fault for his gullibility, a fault which certainly must be 
  considered when evaluating the rest of his book.

Listen, enough of your distortions and lying to not only me, yourself,
and the public.  Fault does not lie with Sack, who faithfully  reproduces
the comments of Lola and the other murderers he interviewed.  The 
fault lies with the liars.  Is this why Christ, according to the Gospels,
said, in John 8:  "He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning?"
And to think Mr. Sack was gullible and naive enough to look for a deeper
meaning in the motives of murderers!  There is none.  It is Mr. Sack
who turns out to be the person with morals and a conscience-not
your Lola or Shlomo.-rb
  
  Yet you have previously characterized Sack's book as "100% 
  accurate" <57ng7c$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com> and "very well 
  researched and written" <57ujrd$dr3@juliana.sprynet.com>.

And indeed it is.  Don't be this pathetic, Miss Flower.  This time you
have been thoroughly humiliated, and even your Nizkook colleagues
and all their words of support through additional insult will not save you
>from  the mess you yourself created.-rb
  
  And you don't even *comprehend* how you've dived into it.

You don't seem to comprehend the meaning of honesty, Miss Flower.-rb
  
  Incredible-MF

Indeed.-rb
  
>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 12:02:21 PST 1996
Article: 84465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!visi.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Schlomo Morel, child killer?
Date: 7 Dec 1996 19:26:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <58cgcs$h49@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad69-134.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  Joseph Belling, under the name rblackmore@juno.com, in
  587clf$3vp@juliana.sprynet.com>, writes:
  
  rb>I would suggest that Shlomo's hiding out doesn't look good
  rb>for him.
    
  CP>What do you mean by "hiding"? Sack had several conversations with
  CP>him. Does the fact that he happens to live in Israel suffice for
  CP>you to consider him a criminal? Well, yes, I suppose it does....
    
  rb>No, the fact that he murdered children suffices for me to consider
  rb>him a criminal.  And you?  What's your excuse?
  
  Why do you believe that Schlomo Morel murdered children?

Because he did.  Children were not exempt from incarceration
in Shlomo's beloved concentration camp, where he was undisputed
lord and master and as vile as any Nazi we have ever read about.-rb

 From the  accounts which appear in Sack's book (and which he, at least,
  obviously believes, though on the basis of no more than victim
  testimony), Morel was and is a detestable human being, but I 
  missed any murder of children. Page number?

And on the basis of Morel's own words to him and the fact that he
is wanted for questioning in Poland on charges of mass murder.  Of
course Mr. Sack was allowed to speak with him-Mr. Sack is Jewish.-rb
>  
>  And for what exactly do I need an excuse? Telling the truth?
>  Insisting on accuracy? Neglecting to kiss the ass of Nazis?

No-you kiss the asses if murderers, and have abandoned any 
principles or ethics you may have once held in regard to being
truthful.-rb
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 12:02:22 PST 1996
Article: 84469 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:58:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <588jmj$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <58277e$5kd@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  > >  >   The Criminal Giwer  rewrites some more history:
>  > >  >  On 1 Dec 1996 08:38:09 GMT, brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) wrote:
>  > >  
>  > >  >  >>What I am questioning and what I have always questioned is
>  > the authenticity of the soound recording which was allegedly 
>  > taken of the speech in question. 
>  >   
>  > This has been discussed in the past, i believe Matt Giwer
>  > made similar statements.  
>  >   
>  > A wager was proposed to Mr. Giwer:
>  >  
>  >   Himmler's Ponzan speech would be sent to experts
>  >   to determine if the speech is authentic, the loser 
>  >   (whether it woulkd be Giwer or Nizkor) would pay
>  >   the costs of the analysis.
>  >   
>  > Are you game?
>  
>  The question is, Mr. Belling, are _you_ game? 
>  
>  Or are you, as I suspect, all mouth and no spine? 
>  
>  [snip]


>  
>>>>
The comments on the tape do not prove your contention of 
Jews being murdered in gas chambers.  Therefore, it is irrelevant,
and why should I pay simply for the pleasure of watching you
squirm, when I can see that everyday.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 12:02:22 PST 1996
Article: 84470 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:59:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <588joj$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>   "Kurt Stele" writes about Himmler's Posen speeches:
>  
>  # If the tape was legit the cowardly Jewish Holohoax Industry
>  # would have already tested it by now.  
>  
>  You must really be desperate, kurtzi. We offered to test it.
>  Moreover, "leading revisionists" like Faurisson and Irving
>  agree Himmler said these things. Faurisson's explanation
>  is that Himmler "indulged in a bit of braggadocio", and
>  probably didn't mean what he said. But then, Faurisson is
>  about as crazy as you (well, maybe a little less).
>  
>  # Just like the cowards have to resort to imprisoning revisionists
>  # and censoring websites to keep the public from finding out about
>  # it.
>  
>  kurtzi, what do you think about Matt Giwer's letter to my ISP,
>  demanding to kick me off the net and threatening to mail-bomb
>  him if he doesn't?
>  
>  Care to answer, kurtzi?
>  

>  
>  
>>>>
That Little ole name caller, Danny Keren.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 12:02:23 PST 1996
Article: 84471 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Court Values Palestinian Life at One-Third of a Cent
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:01:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <588js1$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <585jdh$i3n@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  ivanpv@aol.com wrote:
>  
>  : 	It should be emphasized that defenders of Holocaust orthodoxy do
>  : not allow for a detached discussion of the event. Holocaust proponents,
>  : such as Diane Lipstadt...
>  
>  It would be nice if you'd try to get your facts straight--there's no
>  such person as "Diane Lipstadt."  Nevertheless, you do make a point.
>  The behavior of the Israeli security forces is often indefensible.
>  It's interesting to note, though, that deniers and antisemites who
>  chose to make Israeli policy a part of the Holocaust "debate" never
>  mention the children and other civilians kiled by Palestinian 
>  terrorists.
>  
>  Why is that, Ivan?
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
I will mention it.  Now, what do you have to say to that?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  8 12:02:24 PST 1996
Article: 84472 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:03:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <588k03$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <582b4q$f8q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  > Don't attempt to turn the tables here Mr. McFee.  It was definitely 
>  > your colleagues, like Mark, etc. who started the rough stuff, and you
>  > finally decided to play tagalong as well.  I asked for a cease firing a 
>  > long time ago.....
>  
>  Then give us an explanation. Why are you trolling for little boys in
>  alt.arcadia?
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
Silly woman.  Why do post things that make you look
more the fool every day?  If I were a homosexual, is that
supposed to be an insult or a slur?  I think the "Gay Rights
Movement" would be interested in your reply. 


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec  9 13:27:54 PST 1996
Article: 84662 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz death march survivor's story
Date: 5 Dec 1996 19:19:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 137
Message-ID: <58777d$t8j@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   karlpov@access4.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  Her family was all she thought of. Born twenty miles away in
  Bedzin to a father and mother versed in the Torah, Lola had had
  ten older brothers and sisters: a boxer, a foreman, a CPA, a
  couturier, a pop band leader whose hottest song was "Blue Skies
  (Smiling at Me)", a philologist and a pilot among them. But when,
  in 1943, the Germans smashed in her family's door shouting,
  "Schmutzige Juden! You dirty Jews! Heraus! Get out!" and cattle-
  carred many of these brothers, sisters, nephews, nieces, and
  Lola's mother and Lola's daughter to Auschwitz, the only one who
  the Germans considered able-bodied was Lola, then twenty-one. The
  rest were selected by Mengele, the SS's whistling doctor, to be
  gassed (or, in one case, hanged) and be cremated in the ovens
  whose sickening smell had the SS sneering at Auschwitz as Anus
  Mundi. Among the condemned was Lola's daughter, age one.
    And now, one-and-a-half years later, as sixty thousand people
  moved like the Doomed, as SS in black woolen cloaks cried,
  "Weiter! Go on!" as SS dogs in black woolen blankets snarled, as
  SS in pell-mell retreats shot the people who, for any reason,
  stopped, as waste matter ran down the other people's legs, and as
  Lola shuffled by one, two, three hundred corpses--now, Lola just
  thought of Ada, of Zlata. Straggling beside her, Ada and Zlata,
  the wives of two of her brothers, were, to her knowledge, her
  only surviving relatives.  SS in pell-mell retreats shot the people who, for any reason,
  stopped, as waste matter ran down the other people's legs, and as
  Lola shuffled by one, two, three hundred corpses--now, Lola just
  thought of Ada, of Zlata. saying, (Snipped the Trnip soup.  and how the
Jews all thought it was poison ivy)
  "Eat it," Ada and Zlata crying, "I can't," Lola yelling, "Swallow
  it!" and Ada and Zlata downing it, holding their noses. At
  Auschwitz, Lola had yelled like a drill instructor in her
>  determination that the Potok family should survive. And now, she
>  sneaked from the slow-moving column to dig up four frozen
>  potatoes to pass to Ada and Zlata, who put them under their
>  armpits to thaw before wolfing them down. "They need me," Lola
>  told herself, for her will to live depended on her two sisters-
>  in-law.
>  
>  At dawn the black became gray. The air and the earth were the
>  same cardboard color, and the homes by the road were just darker
>  blotches. It was so cold that some firing pins cracked as the SS
>  shot hundreds of Jews. At noon Ada cried, "I see some meat!" and
>  ran to a snow-covered meadow where a dead animal lay, but before
>  the SS could shoot her, she ran back saying, "No, it's human." At
>  twilight, the SS finally said, "Stehen bleiben! Stop!" and as
>  Zlata slumped to the snow, starting to eat it, Lola knocked on a
>  German's door, saying, "We need some bread." What she got, she
>  shared with Zlata--just Zlata, for Ada had disappeared. Ada's
>  shoes had fallen apart and had fallen off.
>  
>  --Reconstructed from conversations with Holocaust survivor Lola
>  Potok
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
You're going to jump all over me for this, but I have 
problems with this testimony. 

1.  Assuming that what you write is correct, let's examine the narrative,
 First of all, aside from the mother and
infant, we are not told which relatives of Lola's actually accompanied
the family to Auschwitz.  I think this is important, for what I think are 
rather obvious reasons.

2.  We receive no details over the family member who was allegedly
hanged, nor are we told who ordered the hanging and why.  We also are
not told if Lola actually witnessed the hanging.  Hangings, by the way, were
usually carried out in public, in front of the whole compound as witnesses, for
an offense punishable by hanging.  This applied even to the SS.  For 
instance, Erich Koch, ex-commandant of Buchenwald, was tried and convicted
by the SS on charges of murder, extortion, etc., and sentenced to suffer death
by hanging.  He was hanged in front of the entire compound at Buchenwald, in
full view of the inmates and staff.

3.   " whose sickening smell had the SS sneering at Auschwitz as Anus
Mundi.."  This is a clear literary rip off from the excerpt in Kramer's diary
and seems to have been placed in the commentary for effect.  It was
also used as the title of a book written by a Polish ex-inmate of Auschwitz. 
So the author of this book is familiar with traditional Holocaust literature.

4.  " as SS in black woolen cloaks cried,
  "Weiter! Go on!" as SS dogs in black woolen blankets snarled,"....
Here is a clear fabrication by Lola, as the SS did not wear black woolen overcoats.
The black uniform was discontinued in 1939, and was for the Allgemeine SS,
not for any other service tunic.

5.   " SS in pell-mell retreats shot the people who, for any reason,
  stopped, as waste matter ran down the other people's legs, and as
  Lola shuffled by one, two, three hundred corpses--now, Lola just
  thought of Ada, of Zlata."  --The SS guards had no authority to shoot
prisoners on sight, and if they did so, were in violation of SS orders, as well
as German law.  We are not given the identities of any of the alleged shooters
by Lola.

6.   "the Jews thought it was poison ivy".  No doubt they did, just as
they thought other Jews were gassed to death, and thrown alive 
into cremation ovens..."

7.  " And now, she
  sneaked from the slow-moving column to dig up four frozen
  potatoes to pass to Ada and Zlata, who put them under their
  armpits to thaw before wolfing them down."  Another possible
fabrication from Lola, which the author of your source faithfully
records for posterity.  This is not too credible, with all those SS
guards in black woolen coats shooting anyone who so much as
even farted.

8.  " It was so cold that some firing pins cracked as the SS
  shot hundreds of Jews"  Again, this is most likely a lie, but the
author faithfully preverves her story for posterity.

9.   At noon Ada cried, "I see some meat!" and
  ran to a snow-covered meadow where a dead animal lay, but before
  the SS could shoot her, she ran back saying, "No, it's human.
Another lie by Lola, who imagined that she could justify her own crimes
against innocent German civilians by reciting these fairy tales.
 
10.  " the SS finally said, "Stehen bleiben! Stop!" and as
>  Zlata slumped to the snow, starting to eat it, Lola knocked on a
>  German's door, saying, "We need some bread."

And what you need, Miss Flower, is a lesson in honesty, because this
whole narrative comes from John Sack's book "An Eye for an Eye".
The next time you try and trick me, let us all know in advance, so I
won't have to embarass you like this again.-rblackmore

"The truth or not the truth-THAT is the question.  The truth and ALL
the truth, that is the answer."









From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec  9 13:27:54 PST 1996
Article: 84663 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Communist defames U.S. Army
Date: 5 Dec 1996 19:24:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <5877hq$t8j@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  Joseph Belling, under the name rblackmore@juno.com, in
  <5836oj$g4k@juliana.sprynet.com>, writes:

Charlene Flower, under the name Charles Power, writes:
  


  
  Why "needless to say"? This is Belfrage's bona fides? Good lord,
  why would anyone believe some kook kicked out of the United 
  States as a red (no easy task, even in the McCarthy era)?
  
>  I repeat: What are your reasons to suppose Belfrage's stories to
>  be true?
>  
>>>>
Because they are confirmed by other sources.  Until you read the
entire book, I would advise you to keep your trap shut, before I
have to embarass you again, like I did in your Auschwitz Post, Miss
Flower.  BTW, are you saying you agree with Senator Joseph McCarthy
and Roy Cohn, who were responsible for this man's expulsion?  Inquiring
minds want to know.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 10 05:43:01 PST 1996
Article: 84750 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:03:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <588k11$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <585jvf$1f8e$10@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <582b4q$f8q@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com3 Dec 1996
>  22:55:22 GMT writes:
>  :>
>    
>  [deleted]
>  
>  :>>  BTW, spare me the histrionics about the way anyone responds to your posts. 
>  :>>  You started the rough stuff, you brought it upon yourself.  Your whining now
>  :>>  rings hollow.
>  
>  :>Don't attempt to turn the tables here Mr. McFee.  It was definitely 
>  :>your colleagues, like Mark, etc. who started the rough stuff, and you
>  :>finally decided to play tagalong as well.  I asked for a cease firing a 
>  :>long time ago.....
>  
>  The same day you asked for a cease-fire, you posted several crude remarks in
>  the same group of messages.  Small wonder that I was not impressed.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Were they addressed to you?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 10 05:43:02 PST 1996
Article: 84761 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 6 Dec 1996 08:04:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <588k2q$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <583ppo$1200$15@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message  - mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark
>  Van Alstine)Mon, 02 Dec 1996 23:50:29 -0700 writes:
>  :>
>  :>In article <57ppii$1ln2$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>  :>McFee) wrote:
>  :>
>  :>> In message <57m87u$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  :>> :>
>  :>> :>>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  :>> :>
>  :>> :>SNIP
>  :>> :>> 
>  :>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  :>> :>>  
>  :>> :>>>>>
>  :>> :>Mark-go eat your buttered bagel.
>  :>> 
>  :>> What's wrong with a buttered bagel?
>  :>
>  :>Buttered? Er, I prefer mine toasted and with cream cheese, thank you..... ;-) 
>  
>  I like 'em toasted with peanut butter, but what's wrong with plain butter? 
>  (However, I'm just a goy-toy boy in training.)
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
I never cared much for bagels myself.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 10 05:43:03 PST 1996
Article: 84795 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Some bodies fell out'
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:40:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <588iks$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd35-118.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
>  gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 54]
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  I was told that the people who had climbed into the truck were
>  Russians who would otherwise have had to be shot. They were looking
>  for a different way of killing them. We then went to another place,
>  where we met the truck again. It was near the crematory oven. I can
>  still remember that one could see through a peephole or a small
>  window into the inside of the truck, which was lit up. One could see
>  that the people were dead.  The van was opened. Some bodies fell
>  out; the others were unloaded by prisoners. Those of us who were
>  chemists could ascertain that the bodies had that pinkish look which
>  is typical of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning.
>  
>>>>
He was told....how nice.  And now Danny is here to tell us.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 10 05:43:03 PST 1996
Article: 84796 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:44:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <588it4$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32A57631.4898@rio.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck writes:

.
>  
>  Con-men are some of the worlds most despicable humans. Pro-Nazi 
>  con-men...well I can't bring myself to write my feelings. But they 
>  ain't good, pal.
>  
>  And stop sticking your tongue out at me. Silly goose!
>  Chuck
>  
>>>>
Chuckles-go play with your tonka trucks and leave the writing
of history to diletantes like Miss Flower.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 10 05:43:04 PST 1996
Article: 84797 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 6 Dec 1996 07:40:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <588im7$atj@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # By the way, I speak 3 languages besides English.
>  
>  And he obviously lies in all of them.
>  
>  Remember his claim that Amon Goeth was "executed by the SS for
>  mistreating Jews"? In reality, he was tried and executed by the
>  Poles, after the war.
>  
>  When his lie was exposed, the lying Nazi apologist "rblackmore"
>  blamed a "Jewish researcher" who allegedly supplied him with
>  this false information...
>  
>  What a stupid, lying Nazi.
>  
>  Can he perhaps tell us:
>  
>  1) Who this "Jewish researcher" is?
>  
>  2) How come he ["rblackmore"] didn't know that Goeth was executed 
>     by the Poles? With his "60,000 books" and all?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Silly man.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 12 05:22:53 PST 1996
Article: 85180 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mr. Dirty Deeds goes to Town
Date: 2 Dec 1996 10:48:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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In 1945, 3 Jewish American Soldiers and an officer marched
into a Mr. Cerfontaine's home and business and 
brusquely informed him of the following:

"Herr Cerfontaine, we have requisitioned this property,
the newsprint in the property next door, the newsprint
at 65 Ottostrasse, and all the contents, furniture and
equipment in this building......Please convey this infor-
mation to the other occupants of this building.  You have
two days in which to move yourself and your effects from
the apartment upstairs.  After that you will not return except
by obtaining permission in advance from me."

From:  Seeds of Destruction, C. Belfrage, p. 30.

So that was it.  Captain Springer had spoken.  That was
 all it took to dispossess a man and his family from a business
 and a home which was bought and paid for by hard work and
 sacrifices over two decades previous.
 Imagine this happening in America or Canada.
If the Nizkooks get their way....it will.



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 12 11:57:18 PST 1996
Article: 85279 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 12 Dec 1996 09:08:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Irma Grese.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 13 06:52:25 PST 1996
Article: 85346 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re:  Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 13 Dec 1996 08:55:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Not only that-but they seem to discriminate against Jews who
are not born Jews, but who convert.  The publication Jewish
Currents details a story about how an Israeli Prime Minister
signed into effect a law which compels converts traveling to
either visit or reside in Israel, to have their passports stamped
with a capital "C", for Convert.  Similar to the Nazi legislation
where Jewish passports were once stamped with a "J" for Jew.
Strange how history repeats itself.....(In response to Mr. Moran's
comments).


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 06:59:10 PST 1996
Article: 86186 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Is 'rblackmore' Up To? (Re: Blackmore lies again  (Was
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:39:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <595po1$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <58jsa6$ag8$4@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote to Chuck Ferree:
>  : 
>  : You're a pathetic old fart 
>  : 
>  
>  
>  Another typo! You should really exercise more
>  care! That should be "*SYM*pathetic old fart"
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Sympathetic to you, perhaps.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 06:59:11 PST 1996
Article: 86187 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:38:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <595pm8$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : why should I pay simply for the pleasure of watching you
>  : squirm, when I can see that everyday.
>  
>  You shouldn't! *We* pay if we squirm. You and your cohorts
>  only pay if we *don't* squirm.
>  
>  Given the terms of the challenge, your comment above can
>  only be taken to signify that you know the recording to
>  be authentic, despite your claim that it is a forgery.
>  After all, you and your cohorts only bear the costs
>  if the recording is authentic.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
If I regarded the recording as authentic, I would have said so
by now.  I merely comment that the remarks are really insignificant
and do not lend support to your claims that Jews were being gassed.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 06:59:12 PST 1996
Article: 86191 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jackie Mason on the train to Auschwitz?
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:19:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Take my wife---please!


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 06:59:12 PST 1996
Article: 86192 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:57:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : The only "Difficulty" here is believing in these fairy tale
>  : gas vans.
>  
>  Alfred Saurer AG made a tidy sum producing them
>  and redesigning them to overcome the "difficulty"
>  caused by the vitims rushing to the rear and
>  causing them to be unstable.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
And of course you can direct us to a model of these vans
today?  Fact is, gas vans were commonly used to disinfect 
clothing and equipment for soldiers at the front.  They killed
nothing but lice.  Your "vans" to kill human beings were alleged
to have had a killing capacity of around 60 persons.  If that were
the case, they'd still be working on Wilna to this day.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 06:59:13 PST 1996
Article: 86193 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:00:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:


>  
>  So now you're libeling the Crackow Insititute?  How predictable.
>  
>  
>  Brian Harmon  
>  ------
>  Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive
>  physical evidence into a coherent and unified history. 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
The Crakow institute-that unassailable paradigm of truth-like the
Soviet Extraordinary Commission or the Auschwitz Museum....rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 06:59:14 PST 1996
Article: 86194 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:54:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Marty Kelley  writes:
>  On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, tom moran wrote:
>  
>  > 
>  > >	Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style,
>  > >"Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. 
>  > 
>  > 	The same goes for "McFee".
>  
>  Oooh, that's a new one, Mr. Moran--could you explain how you can tell what
>  people's ethnic/religious backgrounds are by their writing style?  This
>  will no doubt be of great use to Science.
>  
>  ----------------------
>  Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>     
>  "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint.
>  When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
>  			--Dom Helder Camara
>  
>  
>>>>
Rahter than go through all that, perhaps Mr. McFee and Mr. Gandhi shall answer
the question directly.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 08:23:38 PST 1996
Article: 86199 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:54:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
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>   "Thomas Stedham"  writes:

.
>  
>  My questions are simple: a) was/is there a plaque at Auschwitz? b) has it
>  been changed to reflect a lower bodycount? c) if so, why?
>  
>  
>>>>
There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz all repeating the same lies
in different languages.  Each and every slab has now been etched
out.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 08:23:39 PST 1996
Article: 86200 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:54:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 49
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  # They also filled the latrines and compound with trash and
  # filth, so much so that the latrines eventually ceased to
  # function. This would explain the pervasive stench around
  # Auschwitz and another reason why it was referred to as
  # .Anus Mundi..
  
  Unfortunately for our lying Nazi-apologist, the reason
  why Auschwitz was referred to by that name, was the horror
  it inspired in some of those who witnessed the mass murder
  of innocent human beings there:
  
  Notes From Diary of SS-Doctor Kremer, while in Auschwitz
  ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 256-268]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  2 September 1942
  
  3.00 a.m. attended my first Sonderaktion. Dante's Inferno seems to
  me almost a comedy compared to this. They don't call Auschwitz the
  extermination camp for nothing!
  
  5 September 1942
>  
>  In the morning attended a Sonderaktion from the women's concentration
>  camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Hschf. Thilo -- army
>  doctor -- was right when he said to me this is the 'anus mundi'. In
>  the evening towards 8.00 attended another Sonderaktion from
>  Holland.
>  
>  ['Muslims' does not mean "practicing Islam"; this is the way the SS
>   referred to emaciated people].
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Yes--these womwn were undoubtedly suffering from dysentery and had been
brought to the sauna or disinfection and treatment building.  They thought they
were going to be killed, according to the pervasive rumours throughout the camp.
They were undoubtedly covered in excrement through no fault of their own, therefore,
Kremer uses the term "Anus Mundi".  Also, I believe the exact quote should be
:" They don;'t call Auschwitz the camp of annihilation for nothing."
Typhus and dysentery consumes.  They are wasting diseases.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 17 11:18:54 PST 1996
Article: 86230 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Gruppenfuehrer Otto Ohlendorf Testifies About the Einsantzgruppen Massacres
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:48:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Otto Ohlendorf, chief of Einsatzgruppe D, testifies about Nazi
>  mass murder in the occupied USSR. Source: IMT Vol. IV, testimony
>  starts at page 311.
>  
>  

Snip
>  
>  
>  
>  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
1598.  The Tribunal of Lublin sentenced three Jews to death on
ritual murder charges....The body of the murdered boy was transferred
to a local church by the jesuits, where he was venerated as a martyr.
Similar trials occurred throughout Poland.

(Anti- Semitism-Causes and Effects)


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 08:19:16 PST 1996
Article: 86352 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 16 Dec 1996 12:09:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Irma Grese was only 21 years old when she became a defendant at the infamous “Belsen Trial”.  Few would have imagined that the 
young and beautiful Grese was capable of committing the crimes of which she was accused.  The testimony from the Belsen Trial 
indicates that Miss Grese was an SS Aufseherin, or Overseer, who was assigned duties along with seven other women to guard 
over 20-30 thousand inmates, most of them Hungarian Jewesses detained at Auschwitz.  Indeed, it was more for her tenure of 
service at Auschwitz, rather than Belsen, for which she was charged and convicted.  The circumstances of her case clearly indicate 
that Grese was simply a victim of malicious gossip and accusations made by ex-prisoners hell bent on exacting their ounce of blood 
>from  their former guards.  Unjust accusations of this sort are not uncommon within prisons.  However, in our justice system, such 
complaints are often not acted upon, as it is only to be expected that the detained will harbor resentments against their guards.  This 
is not to say that mistreatment in prisons does not occur.  Undoubtedly it does.  

In the case of Irma Grese, one should simply reflect on the fact that it is not easy to manage 20-30,000 inmates.  Auschwitz was a 
detention center, where criminals were freely interspersed among those simply being held in “protective custody”.  As a young 
woman of rather slight stature, it is only common sense to assume that as a guard among so many prisoners, Miss Grese took 
measures to safeguard her own safety.  Thus, it has been reported that she carried a stick with her and was often escorted by a 
dog.  In correctional facilities all over the world, such measures are commonplace among staff members justifiably concerned with 
their own safety.  The usual mistake made in evaluating cases like Irma Grese’s is that the average person is more or less unaware 
that guards at Auschwitz had every legal right to take measures to ensure their own safety and to maintain order.  

Grese joined the SS in 1942, against the wishes of her father,  and was stationed for a time at Ravensbrueck, a camp for women.  
In 1943 she was transferred to Auschwitz and stationed in Birkenau.  How she actually came to be a member of the SS is unclear.  
According to her testimony, she was sent to work in the camps by the German Labour Exchange.  Obviously the recruiting and 
acceptance criteria for female members of the SS was different from that of males,  although I have been unable to uncover any 
guidelines.  At any rate, Grese remained at Auschwitz until January, 1945, after which she was sent on to Belsen at her own 
request..  If she had been sent to any other camp, we most likely would never have even heard of her.  

Grese’s duties at Auschwitz varied.  Most of her work was rather benign, such as sorting through parcels and overseeing 
construction projects.  However, from May until December, 1944, Grese was appointed senior Aufseherin for Compound “C”, which 
turned out to be the eventual cause of her undoing.  There she had to oversee 20-30,000 Hungarian Jewesses, all held in 
protective custody.  The huge influx of detainees created problems which were addressed with difficulty by the relatively young and 
inexperienced Grese.  Most of the problems centered around the distribution of food.  The overcrowding also led to sanitation 
problems, which Grese was scarcely capable of handling.  The detainees themselves helped to create many of the problem 
situations, as at Belsen, where they urinated and defecated whenever and wherever the urge struck them.  They also filled the 
latrines and compound with trash and filth, so much so that the latrines eventually ceased to function.  This would explain the 
pervasive stench around Auschwitz and another reason why it was referred to as “Anus Mundi”.  

Grese was accused of beating prisoners herself or ordering then to be beaten.  Grese herself admitted that she sometimes struck 
prisoners with a cellophane whip and gave orders that anyone caught stealing from the kitchens was to be beaten.  While this 
seems harsh, one should bear in mind that the prisoners who stole food from the kitchens were actually stealing the food right out of 
the mouths of fellow prisoners at a time when food itself was scarce.  Thus their crime of theft was paricularly grievous, and 
undoubtedly warranted strict punishment. 

As head Aufseherin, Grese was also responsible for conducting roll call.  Often prisoners were compelled to stand for hours until the 
roll call was verified as correct.  However, this is common procedure at any institution and should not particularly concern us here.  
Grese was accused of administering vicious beatings.   However, the accusations were never proven.  At Belsen, she was too 
horrified at the condition of the sick inmates to even approach them.  

Greses’s comments about the alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz are most interesting.  She never saw a gas chamber, but 
remarked that she heard about them from prisoners.  Other SS staff also seemed to know nothing about them save what the 
prisoners rumored.  Thus, when she wrote SB for “Sonder Behandlung” in her strength book, she assumed that these people were 
sent to the rumored gas chambers.  

There is no doubt that Miss Grese struck prisoners, but there is
 also no doubt that the prisoners deliberately exaggerated their 
alleged mistreatment.  They often embellished each and every 
little tale and accusation of beating.  Grese’s testimony rings of 
truth and candidness, quite alike the testimony of many of her 
accusers.  Much ado was made over the accusation that Grese
 was always accompanied by a fierce dog, which she set upon 
the prisoners for amusement.  Grese denied ever having a dog.
  In fact, the matter could have been cleared up by asking the 
other Aufseherin who worked with her, but neither the prosecution
 nor the defense ever pursued this line of questioning as they should have.  

Though the prosecutor tried his best, it was my feeling that he
 failed to connect Irma Grese with any crimes which would
 have warranted the imposition of the death penalty.  He was
 unable to connect her to any alleged gassings, as well as any
 individual cases of murder.  The curious thing about the
 accusations is that the victims were all anonymous.  Not one
 alleged victim of murder was ever mentioned by name by any of
 the accusors.  Of course, that is only because their accusations
 were false.  Though the prosecutor attempted to portray Miss
 Grese in a negative light after her transfer to Belsen, he failed, IMO.
  Most of Miss Grese’s time at Belsen was taken up with preparing 
funerals for SS staff members who were also dropping like flies in the
 camp due to the typhus epidemic.  

Summing up, it is clear that Irma Grese did not deserve the death
 penalty, as the prosecution failed to live up to the burden of proof 
which would be required in any impartial court today.  Clearly Miss 
Grese was guilty of striking prisoners on occasion, but this was 
usually for some offense or infraction of one sort or another,.  As
 usual, the professional witnesses and “survivors” failed to get their
 stories straight and their testimony differed considerably from their
 written affadavits.  It was hardly necessary for an allied court to try
 Miss Grese on charges of mistreating prisoners in a detention camp,
 which was legally instituted by the legitimate government of Germany.
  Such offenses as beating prisoners could easily have been handled 
by the German authorities themselves.  However, it WAS necessary
 that examples be made in 1945-46.  Thus, Miss Grese was convicted
 and sentenced to death.  Neither her youth nor the truth saved her life
 from being terminated by some stuffy old English Judge faithfully fulfilling
 the orders and expectations of his own government.  Under the guise
 of legality, Irma Grese was lynched.



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 08:19:17 PST 1996
Article: 86370 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Of Course Blackmore Doesn't call folks names
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:42:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>  
>  >On Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:16:39 GMT, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
>  >Curtis) wrote:
>  >
>  >>
>  >
>  >>But is any of this necessary if Blackmore claims he wants to further
>  >>discussion?
>  >
>  >You're assuming Mr. Bellinger _wants_ to further discussion
>  >instead of simply being in love with the sound of his keys
>  >clacking.
>  >
>  
>  I'd hate to assume anything of the cypher calling itself
>  rblackmore@juno.com and posting via sprynet. I was hoping that the
>  pot-kettle-black stuff might stop and the useless one liners stop.
>  Alas, Blackmore, unlike most of us cannot seem to learn.
>  
>  >In the case of Mr. Bellinger, as I have stated before, the
>  >problem is that his brain has never had a thought that his mouth
>  >counldn't use. Unfortunatly, he rarely puts his brain in gear
>  >before he puts his mouth in motion.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
More insults and name calling from mr. Curtis.  How insipidly droll.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 08:19:18 PST 1996
Article: 86488 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:33:38 GMT
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 17 Dec 1996 09:52:41 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
  On 9 Dec 1996 23:51:42 GMT, "Tbone" 


  
  two Jewish holokook historians who disagree on the figures of alleged gassed at
  Auschwitz.  There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz at the time of the Pope's visit.  All
  of these slabs have been etched out since the Auschwitz Museum finally readjusted
  their figures, which were accepted overwhelmingly by historians in Eastern Europe. 
  The fact that Jews were not specifically mentioned on the plaques is also irrelevant, as
  an examination of the figures of other dead at Auschwitz were minimal.  The only victims
  left were Jews.
 
 I see you know less than I thought. And why did Poland inflate
  those figures, Mr. Bellinger? And what number of non-Jewish Poles
  were they attempting to include in that number, Mr. Bellinger?
 

Why did Poland inflate those figures?  Why do you ask me?  I did not inflate them.
Refer your question to the proper authority.  I have posted the number of Poles in a 
previous post on this same subject.  You should be able to find the post and the figures
on Deja news.  it was posted about 3 to 4 months ago,--rb
  
  
  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 08:19:18 PST 1996
Article: 86490 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:31:05 GMT
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 16 Dec 1996 13:40:34 GMT, tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) wrote:
>  
>  >,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornst
>  >ar,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornstars,alt.sex.pictures.female
>  >Subject: From the Siacom Archives -f- sian0500.jpg
>  >Date: 8 Dec 1996 00:07:33 GMT
>  >Organization: Siacom Enterprises
>  >Lines: 533
>  >Message-ID: <01bbe49c$40b2a060$184badce@wolfpack>
>  >Reply-To: "Siacom" 
>  >NNTP-Posting-Host: cnc05124.concentric.net
>  >X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
>  
>  >For all and sundry--this is the work of those two holocaust
>  >scholars--Chuck Feree and Michael Stein......What I want to know is who
>  >plays the man and who plays the woman---or is it on a first come first
>  >serve basis?
>  
>  Mr. Bellinger, it seems you have made the decision to climb all
>  the way into the muck and wallow in the mire with the rest of
>  your nazi friends. You could have saved all of  us the suspense
>  and gone there right from the start. We all knew you'd wind up
>  their eventually. Birds gotta fly - nazi apologist's gotta wallow
>  in the mud with the rest of the swine. Glad to see you have
>  finally settled into rightful place. Guess I was right after all,
>  eh? You are a lowlife, scumbag, nazi apologist!
>  
>  
>>>>
Thanks for admitting your prejudices from the beginning.  Now, who posted
the filth in response to my legitimate posts?  Funny I don't hear you whinning
about that.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 08:19:19 PST 1996
Article: 86491 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:29:41 GMT
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5961lv$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   Yes--these womwn were undoubtedly suffering from dysentery and had been
   brought to the sauna or disinfection and treatment building.  
  
  Er, no. If Mr. Belling weren't such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, he
  would have the honesty to acknowledge that these "Moslem" women, according
  to Kremer, were murdered with poison gas in one of the bunkers. (cf.
  Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p.215fn.) 
  
  Furthermore, Mr. Belling's abject ignorance of the delousiung and
  disinfestation installations at Auschwitz II-Birkenau manifests itself for
  all to see. There were two Zyklon B disinfestation chambers (BW 5a and 5b)
  in BI; there was a disenfestation installation in BIIe (the "Gypsy Camp");
  and there was the disenfestation autoclaves and ovens of BW 32 (the
  "Sauna"). (Pressac, _Technique_, pp.53,63,65.) 
  
  Unfortunately for Mr. Belling _none_ of these disinfestation installations
  _existed_ on September 5, 1942 -the date these "Moslem" women were
  murdered in Birkenau! (cf. Ibid.) 

You have no proof these women were murdered.  What seems logical is that some sort
of delousing and cleaning facility was set up on a temporary basis to treat these unfortunates.--rb
  

 
   They thought they were going to be killed, according to the pervasive rumours 
  throughout the camp.
  
  Indeed. If Mr. Belling weren't such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, he
  would have the honesty to acknowledge that Kremer stated:
  
  "...I could deduce from the behavior of these women that they realized
  what was awaiting them. They begged the SS men to be allowwed to live,
  they wept, but all of them were driven into the gas chamber and
  gassed...." (Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p.215fn.) 

This does NOT come from his diary, but from his Soviet-Polish Show trial, therefore,
I reject this statement as you reject the statements of Jews who confessed to committing
ritual murder.--rb
  
  
  They were undoubtedly covered in excrement through no fault of their own, 
   therefore, Kremer uses the term "Anus Mundi".  
  
  Er, no. If Mr. Belling weren't such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, he
  would have the honesty to acknowledge that Kremer stated:
  
  "...Being and anatomist I had seen many horrors, had to do with corpses,
  but what I saw then was not to be compared with anything seen ever before.
  It was under the influence of these impressions that I noted in my diary,
  under the date of September 5, 1942: 'The most horrible of all horrors.
  _Hauptsturmfu"hrer_ Thilo - was right saying today to me that we were
  located in the '_anus mundi_'. I had used this expression because I could
  not imagine anything more sickening and more horrible." (Ibid.) 

Yes.  I believe the reference refers to the ill and the dying and their deplorable
physical condition due to their illnesses.--rb
  
  
   Also, I believe the exact quote should be:" They don;'t call Auschwitz 
   the camp of annihilation for nothing." Typhus and dysentery consumes.  
   They are wasting diseases.
  
  Er, no. The passage from Kremer's diary in _KL Auschwitz_ (p.214) reads as
  follows:
  
  
  
  September 2,    Was present for first time at special action [49] at 
  1942.           3 a.m. In comparison with it Dante's Inferno seems
                  to be almost a comedy.[50] Auschwitz is justly called
                  an extermination camp!

Well, he did not write this in English.  What is the original German?--rb
  
  
  
  Footnote 50 leaves no doubt that Kramer was refering to homicidal gassings
  when calling Auschwitz an extermination camp and _not_, as the lying
  scumbag Nazi apologist Mr. Belling fallaciously suggests, "typhus and
  dysentery." To whit: 
  
  "50 Kremer was one of the defendants at the trial of the Auschwitz camp
  garrison. The trial took place at the sittings of the Supreme National
  Tribunal in Cracow in the time from November 24 till December 22, 1947.
  During the interrogatory Kremer had been repeatedly questioned. It was
  then that he proffered detailed information on the subject of the meaning
  of some of the entries in his diary. Excerpts from his explinations are
  quoted in this publication under the respective dates. In the official
  record of the interrogatory of August 18, 1947, Cracow, Kramer stated as
  fallows: 'On September 2, 1942 at 3 a.m. I was already assigned to take
  part in the action of gassing people. These mass murders took place in
  small cottages situated outside the Birkenau camp in a wood. These
  cottages were called 'bunkers' (_Bunker) in the SS men's slang. All SS
  surgeons, on duty in the camp, took turns to participate in the gassings,
  which were called '_Sonderaktion_' (special action - Editor's note). My
  part as surgeon at the gassing consisted in remaining in readiness near
  the bunker. I was brought there in a car. I sat in front with the driver
  and an SS hospital orderly (SDG) sat in the back of the car with an oxygen
  apparatus to revive SS men employed at gassing, in case any of them should
  succumb to the poisonous fumes. When the transport with people, who were
  destined for gassing, arrived at the railway ramp, the SS officers
  selected from among the persons fit to work and the rest - old people, all
  children, women with children in arms and other persons not deemed fit to
  work - were loaded upon lorries and driven to the gas-chambers. I used to
  follow behind the transport till we reached the bunker. These people were
  first driven to barracks where the victims undressed and then went nked to
  the gas-chambers. Very often no incidents occurred, as the SS men kept
  people quiet, maintaining that they were to bathe and be deloused. After
  driving all of them into the gas-chamber the door was closed and an SS man
  in a gas-mask threw the contents of a Cyclon tin through the opening in
  the side wall. SHouting and screaming of the victims could be heard
  through that opening and it was clear that they fought for their loves
  (_Lebebskampf). These shouts were heard for a very short time. I should
  say for some minutes but I am unable to give the exact span of time."
  (Ibid. p.214fn) 


This testimony is not believeable.  First of all, the Zyklon was supposedly thrown in through the
top of the roof--not through the side wall.  Second, compare with this testimony:

On the afternoon of February 15th, 1840, the Capuchin priest Thomas was sent for to 
attend a sick child.  The priest was a great healer and physician.  He was respected and loved
as a saint.  On his way back from attending the child, he was invited by his friend, the rich
Jew David Arari, to come to his home.  When he arrived, Jews immediately attacked, gagged,
and bound him up.  They then dragged him into a secret room, and sent for the Jewish barber
Soliman.  The priest was laid on a table and his head was held over a copper bowl.  The
barber seized the old priest by the beard.  Aaron Arari held his head, and his brother David
Arari slit his throat.  The blood was collected and filled into bottles.....Shortly afterwards the 
Preist's servant Ibrahim Amara appeared in the Jewish ghetto.  The Jewish Amari brothers, who
were standing in front of the house, said to him:  "Come on in, your Master is with us."  Ibrahim
Amara was murdered in the same way as his master Father Thomas.

The next day the priest was missed and a search was made for him.  The barber Soliman was
suspect due to papers which were found on him belonging to the priest........Soliman made a full
confession and was convicted.  Traces of blood were found and pieces of the priest and his
servant's body were found in the sewer.  After this all the Jews that took part in the murder
were arrested, and three of them confessed to the crime in detail."

(Relation historique des affaires de Syrie depuis 1840 jusqu'en 1842.---Achilles Laurent.)

rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 13:43:06 PST 1996
Article: 86514 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:11:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
  On Sun, 08 Dec 1996 15:47:11 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
  
  Dr. Keren carefully states the name of the book, the author, the
  publisher and the page number where the eyewitness report of an
  participant in the gassing of Jews can be found:
  
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  
  Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days at Auschwitz
  [Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert 
  Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt", By Bernd 
  Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY, p. 50-1]
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  He then quotes verbatim from this page:
  
  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  
  The Jews were asked to line up. It was my job to preserve calm and
  order. The selection was carried out by doctors. The instructions
  were issued by the commandants or by Grabner. Sometimes entire
  transports were gassed. At times many able-bodied workers were
  selected, at other times fewer. The percentage was specified in
  advance. It was determined by the need for workers.
  
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  
  It would seem clear to any but the most gimpy-minded reader that
  the description given by Dr. Keren can be verified by anyone with
  access to a decent library.  Instead, Mr. Moran, whose abilities to
 dissimulate are well know by all, chooses to make an inane and
  childish remark:
  
  	Is this it? Or does the eyewitness have any details and clear
  discriptions? None ever do.
  
  He really is a tiresome chap.  He has nothing to add to intelligent
  discussion.  Perhaps if he would read the book and understand
>  precisely  what  happened in that courtroom, he might find that he
>  would agree with Dr. Keren.  After all, one of the perpetrators of
>  this evil crime, SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, is confessing to having
>  been a participant.  Let Mr. Moran explain that away with a juvenile
>  one-liner.   
>  
>  Not a chance...
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Harry W. Mazal OBE
>  
>  Nizkor (USA)  An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>  Over 1000 Megs of data: http://www.nizkor.org
>  Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>
Yes...I see your point.  How about this one........:

In Berlin the Jews Salomon, Jacob, Aaron, Levi Isaac, Rabbi Mosch and the butcher 
Jacob were accused of buying a three or four year old Christian boy for 10 florins from
a stranger, laying him on a table in a cellar and puncturing him with needles in the large
blood rich veins until he was finally slaughtered by the butcher Jacob.  An enormous
trial began, and eventually a hundred Jews who were involved in the crime were locked
in the Berlin prison.  They partially admitted to having bought Christian children from
strangers, stabbing them, draining their blood, and drinking the blood in case of illness
or preserving it with tomatoes, ginger, and honey.  No fewer than 41 of the accused
Jews were sentenced to death by burning after their confession.  All the other Jews
were banished from the Mark of Brandenburg.  (Richard Mun:  "The Jews in Berlin."

Now, how does it feel to be wearing the other fellow's moccasins?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 13:43:07 PST 1996
Article: 86517 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore, spews more bile and chokes on it... Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:24:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  minesweeper@navy.water (Force) writes:
>  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>  
>  ## What was "manufactured by the Soviets"? One example, please.  
>  
>  # The guillotine and the baskets full of heads and the fresh corpses
>  # in the movie of course.  
>  
>  What movie? What corpses? Why do you assume the Soviets did it,
>  if anything like this ever took place? Methinks you're
>  hallucinating.
>  
>  ## What about the numerous SS-men who testified in German
>  ## courts?
>  
>  # Perhaps, like Goring, their wives and children had been
>  # arrested to send them a message.  
>  
>  "Perhaps"? "Perhaps"??
>  
>  It doesn't work that way. If you have any evidence whatsoever
>  that anything like that was done, present it. 
>  
>  I repeat: find one single example among all the testimonies
>  I post here in which the family of the witness was harassed
>  in any way whatsoever. If you can't, stop lying about it.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Reread my Soviet Def Comedy Jam Posts for many more instances
of obviously fabricated Soviet testimony.  I can post additional material
if you wish.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 15:37:17 PST 1996
Article: 86533 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore, spews more bile and chokes on it... Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:16:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   minesweeper@navy.water (Force) writes:
>  On Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:13:50 -0800, gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K.
>  Gandhi) wrote:


>  
>  >I don't believe that the Soviets manufactured testimony and fabricated
>  >evidenve. What I do believe is that around 12 million people were
>  >systematically and brutally exterminated by the Nazi war machine. The
>  >physical evidence at Auschwitz, and at Dachau support that conclusion. The
>  >existence of Nazi admissions to their extermination plans support that
>  >conclusion. The testimony of eyewitnesses supports that conclusion.
>  >Unbiased study by contless historians supports that conclusion.

Here is Gandhi at his best---he says he doesn't believe that the Soviets manufactured
evidence.  Does this mean that you give your imprimatur to the tales I posted in Soviet
Def Comedy Jam?  Please advise us all how deep your naivete runs....




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 15:37:17 PST 1996
Article: 86534 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belling sees trap, dives in
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:23:04 GMT
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>   kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) writes:
>  In article <32b10ef1.59956623@news.zilker.net>, 
>  mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) wrote:
>  
>  >rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >>  The 
>  >>fault lies with the liars.  Is this why Christ, according to the Gospels,
>  >>said, in John 8:  "He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning?"
>  
>  Mr. Bellinger accepts the unsupported testimony of some witness
>  for whom he can produce no primary source? (I warned you to ask
>  Mr. Bellinger for his standards of proof, did I not? It would
>  appear that any old testimony will do, given the above...)
>  
>  >Jon is a pretty late Gospel of which there is no original. There is a
>  >copy that is pretty old, but how do we know it wasn't forged. I forgot
>  >when John (the author is really not known) put this Gospel together,
>  >but it is never clear if Jesus really said this. 
>  
>  Where is John's body? Where are the forensic reports? How do we
>  even know this "John" really existed? Where is Mr. Bellinger's
>  proof of this?
>  -- 
>  Nizkor Canada          | http://www.nizkor.org
>  -----------------------| Remember John Hron
>                         |--------------------------------------
>       http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john/
>  
>>>>
You'll have to ask Doubting Thomas about that one....


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 15:37:18 PST 1996
Article: 86535 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:21:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <595s7l$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <58oeqf$dg4@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
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>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  Thomas Stedham (tstedham@dbtech.net) wrote:
>  
>  : My question is this: if, before 1990, 6 million jews had been killed in the
>  : holocaust, how many were counted as coming from Auschwitz? 
>  
>  Hilberg estimated about 1 million Jews killed at Auschwitz based on his
>  examination of the transportation records.  Dawidowicz quoted Hoess's
>  estimate that 2.5 million had been killed there, but she obtained her
>  final figure of 5.9 million from country-by-country population statistics
>  rather than by number killed at particular death camps.
>  
>  Hope this helps!
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz	                             schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>  "I seem to smell a peculiar and a fishlike smell."
>  
>>>>
Instead of examining transportation records, which only prove that people
were transported--examine the forensic evidence for proof of a crime.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:38 PST 1996
Article: 86552 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:39:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <595t95$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  
>  >The library at the University where I work has dozens of copies of 
>  >various editions and translations of both the Jerusalem and the
>  >Babylonian Talmud.  Quick phone calls to book stores around Atlanta
>  >reveal that many, many editions of the Talmud are also available
>  >for purchase.
>  
>  Just to be fair, public libraries (as opposed to university libraries,
>  to which not everyone has access) do not commonly have any Talmud, but
>  at best a couple volumes of Talmud selections. The Talmud found in
>  bookstores is in the process of publication--I'd guess that less than half
>  has been published thus far. (The Babylonian Talmud, at least, is a big,
>  multivolume thing.) This isn't anything like the Bible, which has a rather
>  well defined canon (well, maybe three or four well defined canons, at
>  most) and is available in hundreds of English translations. (The Talmud
>  is commentary to the Torah, enriched by commentary to that commentary,
>  and commentary to that commentary to that commentary; as I understand,
>  there is no final agreement just where "the Talmud" begins and ends.
>  Different editions select different commentaries. Any more knowledgeable
>  folks out there feel free to correct me on this point, of course.)
>  
>  It would be nice if a complete Talmud in English were available on the
>  Web, but I don't believe that there is such a thing, possibly not even
>  on CD-ROM, and it is a bit unreasonable to expect our Nazi-wannabes to 
>  learn Hebrew.
>  
>>>>
And I suppose you read Hebrew?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:39 PST 1996
Article: 86553 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:36:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  
>  >    So I wish he would please explain what he would accept as proof.  From
>  >his tactics here I cannot think of anything that he would not find some
>  >means to reject. 
>  
>  Easy, Mike. Make up a story about American soldiers mistreating,
>  even murdering, innocent Germans. For bonus points, make the American
>  soldiers Jewish. I'm sure Jane/Joe/rblackmore will find no reason to
>  reject it, no matter how silly you make it.
>  
>>>>
Miss Flower, watch those crumpets.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:39 PST 1996
Article: 86555 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:57:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
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>   destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke) writes:
>  On 14 Dec 1996 04:54:55 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>
No need for all this debate,.  The figure of 4 million was given, but Polish
sources strictly broke down the figures of the alleged dead--and the Jews
won by a long shot.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:40 PST 1996
Article: 86556 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:00:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

.
>  
>  	"Talmud" means "study."  It is commentary, the majority is presented as 
>  a debate.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>  
>>>>
Do you claim to be an authority on the Talmud?  If so, then I have a few questions for
you.--Should you care to respond to them.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:41 PST 1996
Article: 86557 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A friendly warning to the Jews.
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:44:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   carol1@apple.com (Andrew Carol) writes:
>  In article <01bbe96d$547b62a0$0189aec7@default>, "Rad"
>   wrote:
>  
>  > Go to Israel and stop fucking up Western Civilization or you will end up in
>  > the ovens again.
>  > 
>  
>  Hail the honest Nazi who admits that there was a time Jews were
>  burned in ovens.
>  
>  This is such a big step, but full of confusion for a good nazi.
>  
>  How do you threaten Jews without admiting the past?
>  
>  -- 
>  Andrew Carol               "Could be worse.  Could be raining."
>  carol1@apple.com         carol@woz.org
>  
>>>>
At least she didn't say you'll be gassed.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:42 PST 1996
Article: 86558 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon they forget. . .(was: Clearing the air about Posen)
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:48:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
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>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  william c anderson (libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu) wrote:
>  
>  : As far as I can tell, the only people in the whole wide world who 
>  : believe the tape to be a fake are you, Mr. Belling, and Mr. Giwer.  
>  
>  Don't forget Tim "landpost" McCarthy.
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz	                             schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>  "I seem to smell a peculiar and a fishlike smell."
>  
>>>>
Have you considered changing your diet?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 16:06:42 PST 1996
Article: 86559 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust: US Students React
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:52:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <595u2a$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   George Cassutto  writes:


>  
>  Thanks in advance,
>  
>  George Cassutto
>  Teacher of Social Studies
>  North Hagerstown High School (MD)
>  http://www.fred.net/nhhs/nhhs.html
>  http://www.fred.net/nhhs/html/cassutto.html
>  nhhs@fred.net
>  
>>>>
Indeed I shall.  Thanks for the invitation.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 18 17:16:18 PST 1996
Article: 86581 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 18 Dec 1996 10:44:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : Rahter than go through all that, perhaps Mr. McFee and Mr. Gandhi 
>  : shall answer the question directly.
>  
>  What question?  Whether they're Jewish?
>  
>  How about you answer this one, Mr. Belling:  how does it come to be that, 
>  just a few short months after showing up here posing as an objective 
>  truth-seeker, you were spotted exchanging antisemitic nursery rhymes with
>  Harold Covington of the National Socialist White People's Party?  How 
>  difficult was it to fake indignation at being called "Nazi-boy," knowing
>  all along that you were indeed a Nazi, in the literal sense of the term?
>  And lastly:  do you have any shame at all?
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
Indeed I am not a Nazi nor am I anti-Semitic.  I do not know Harold Covington,
but the NSWPP began sending me email months ago.  I asked them how they
happened to select me for the email, but I never received an answer.  The 
"nursery rhymes", as you call them, came from an anti-semitic newspaper.  Simply
because I posted it doesn't mean I am an anti-Semite, any more than if you posted
something from a Nazi would make you one of them.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:17 PST 1996
Article: 86646 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:12:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  p@q.r (Advance) wrote:
>  
>  >On Sun, 01 Dec 1996 17:29:26 GMT, mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis)
>  >wrote:
>  >
>  >>rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>Not every Gestapo official was a criminal.  They were policemen
>  >>>enforcing the laws of the land.  By this logic, every police officer
>  >>>or magistrate who upheld the "separate but equal" laws in the
>  >>>Southern states was also a criminal,
>  >>
>  >>Sorry, but these laws were not just in the Southern states. Is yourt
>  >>grasp of history really this poor?
>  >
>  >	Fairly shitty avoidance there.  Regardless of where the laws
>  >existed, were they crimnals for enforcing the laws?  
>  >
>  
>  Who are you speaking of? The Nazis or the Americans in the North and
>  the South? In what context do you make this statement? What specific
>  law do you want to address?
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
You pick one-I'm open to discussion.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:18 PST 1996
Article: 86649 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:55:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
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>   destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke) writes:
>  On 13 Dec 1996 00:38:37 GMT, ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) wrote:
>  
>  >In article <01bbe62c$5b093460$4ed0d6cc@tstedham.dbtech.net>, 
>  >Thomas Stedham  wrote:
>  > 
>  > >But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
>  > >said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
>  >
>  >I visited the Auschwitz Museum in October 1987 in what had
>  >been Auschwitz I.
>  >
>  >I did not see the plaque. Perhaps I missed it.
>  >Could you tell me where it was?
>  
>  	Right where Deborah Lipshitz said it was in her book.  How did you
>  miss it?  
>  
>  =====
>  If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
>  ---
>  Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.
>  
>>>>
It was a series of slabs all etched in different languages but repeating the
same 4 million figure--there were 19 of them.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:19 PST 1996
Article: 86663 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:52:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 9 Dec 1996 23:51:42 GMT, "Tbone" 


>  >But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
>  >said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
>  
>  There never was a plaque that said 4 million jews had been killed
>  there. All-in-all it would seem you are full of shit.
>  
>  >prayed over, commemorating the 4 million jews, etc...) The Auschwitz State
>  >Museum (whatever its official name is) has OFFICIALLY LOWERED the Auschwitz
>  >death toll to "around 1.5 million", a reduction of approx. 2.5 million.
>  
>  No historian ever accepted the 4 million figure. All-in-all it
>  would seem you are full of shit.
> 

>  
>  
>>>>
All this nonsense about whether any historians accepted the 4 million
figure of gassed Jews at Auschwitz is irrelevant.  The figure was good
enough for The Discovery Channel, World War Two Magazine, countless
editions of the popular publication "Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Jewish
People, scores of major newspapers throughout the world, as well as
pseudo-television documentaries.  The common man doesn't real Hilberg or Reitlinger,
two Jewish holokook historians who disagree on the figures of alleged gassed at
Auschwitz.  There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz at the time of the Pope's visit.  All
of these slabs have been etched out since the Auschwitz Museum finally readjusted
their figures, which were accepted overwhelmingly by historians in Eastern Europe. 
The fact that Jews were not specifically mentioned on the plaques is also irrelevant, as
an examination of the figures of other dead at Auschwitz were minimal.  The only victims
left were Jews.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:20 PST 1996
Article: 86668 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Liquidate them yourselves!'
Date: 18 Dec 1996 10:35:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
>  [Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
>  NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
>  Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>  Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
>  off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
>  again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
>  shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
>  Jew of Europe will have met his end....
>   
>  But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
>  be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
>  why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
>  Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
>  Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
>  considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
>  find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
>  the whole structure of the Reich...
>   
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.

Now note this:

8). "Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German
is our moral enemy. Have  no mercy on women, children, or the
aged! Kill every German  wipe them out!" (Llya  Ehrenburg, Jewish-Soviet
Propagandist , Glaser, p. 111).
>  rb
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:21 PST 1996
Article: 86692 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:35:57 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <598kut$bto@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32b6eb58.9091169@news.spry.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd31-096.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 17 Dec 1996 10:55:56 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke) writes:
>  >>  On 13 Dec 1996 00:38:37 GMT, ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) wrote:
>  
>  >>  >In article <01bbe62c$5b093460$4ed0d6cc@tstedham.dbtech.net>, 
>  >>  >Thomas Stedham  wrote:
>   
>  >>  > >But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
>  >>  > >said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
>  
>  >>  >I visited the Auschwitz Museum in October 1987 in what had
>  >>  >been Auschwitz I.
>  
>  >>  >I did not see the plaque. Perhaps I missed it.
>  >>  >Could you tell me where it was?
>  
>  >>  	Right where Deborah Lipshitz said it was in her book.  How did you
>  >>  miss it?  
>  
>  >It was a series of slabs all etched in different languages but repeating the
>  >same 4 million figure--there were 19 of them.
>  
>  Still having problems with your reading comprehension, Mr.
>  Bellinger?
>  
>  Not one of those slabs said 4 million 'Jews,' did it?  And you
>  still haven't owned up to that little deception, have you?

The "little deception" as you call it, rests with the Auschwitz Museum,
and with you, who seeks to exonerate their mendacity.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:21 PST 1996
Article: 86693 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:36:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <598l0g$bto@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32b9eef3.10013769@news.spry.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 17 Dec 1996 09:54:48 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   "Thomas Stedham"  writes:
>  
>  >>  My questions are simple: a) was/is there a plaque at Auschwitz? b) has it
>  >>  been changed to reflect a lower bodycount? c) if so, why?
>  
>  >There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz all repeating the same lies
>  >in different languages.  Each and every slab has now been etched
>  >out.--rb
>  
>  And not one of them said 'Jews.'
>  
>  Amazing!
>  
>  
>>>>
It didn't have to say "Jews".  That was clearly implicit.  Stop playing dumb and dumber.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 05:54:22 PST 1996
Article: 86694 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:37:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <598l27$bto@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32bbef3d.10087847@news.spry.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd31-096.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 17 Dec 1996 10:26:54 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >Chuck's beliefs based upon faith.--rb
>  
>  As opposed to your beliefs based on being a lowlife scumbag, nazi
>  apologist? Your beliefs based on your bigotry?
>  
>  
>>>>
And what are your beliefs based upon---irrationality and a sick
propensity to call people names.  Some credentials you have!--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 08:10:13 PST 1996
Article: 86739 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Prof. Pfannenstiel Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:13:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 75
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References: 
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  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
  at Belzec
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
  1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
  would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
  with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
  spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
  work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
  I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
  that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
  extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
  killed at the the camp at Belzec...
  
  During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
  Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
  extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
  morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
  camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
  asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
  actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
 planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
  extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
  first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
  spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
  morning.
  
  A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
  cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
  or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
  were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
  into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
  their shoes...
  
  After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
  women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
  shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
  where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
  women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
>  procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
>  hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
>  centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
>  the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
>  Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
>  brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
>  killed here...
>  
>  Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
>  channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
>  building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
>  windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
>  that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
>  into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
>  was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
>  Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
>  but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
>  glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
>  the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
>  to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
>  would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
>  to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
>  chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
>  the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
>  something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
>  thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.
>  
>>>>
According to the testimony of the Jewess Ben Noud, who converted to
Christianity, an old Gentile man in Tripoli was tied up by 4 or 5 jews and hanged from an orange 
tree by his toes.  At the moment when the old man was close to death the Jews
cut his throat with a butcher knife and let the body hang until all the blood
had been collected into a bowl.  (Henri Desportes, Le myst. du sang 91)


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 16:01:20 PST 1996
Article: 86815 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: kurt stele and his nuremberg "cite"
Date: 17 Dec 1996 09:41:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <595ps3$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd11-093.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <32ad365c.401745341@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:


>  
>  > Jackson presents it as a serious claim, and then goes into great
>  > detail about the claim.  
>  
>  Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
>  anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 


>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Given the record of Mark Van Alstine, one should accept Mr. Stele's
quotes without any reservations whatsoever.  -rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 19 19:11:55 PST 1996
Article: 86829 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 17 Dec 1996 12:07:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  In the alt.revisionism article with Message-Id
  <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>, the lying Nazi-apologist
  "rblackmore" claimed that the commandant of Plaszwo camp,
  Amon Goeth, was "executed by the SS" because he "abused
  the prisoners under his command". Goeth, however, was
  tried and executed by the Poles, after the war.
  
  Now, why did the pathetic fool "rblackmore" invent this
  lie? Simple: he wanted to convince people that the Nazis
  really cared for the inmates in the camps, and that they
  even punished camp commandants who murdered Jews. So, what
  does he do? He invents this lie - that the SS executed
  Goeth - and posts it, hoping that no one who reads this
  newsgroup knows the truth.
  
  It's so pathetic. So idiotic. So childish.
  
  And, something which is somewhat related. "rblackmore"
  has posted an article trolling for teenage boys, on
  alt.acadia. He later claimed it was really posted by
  someone else, using his account. He offered no proof
  of this; moreover, there was nothing like "I'm really
  so-and-so, and I'm only using this account for posting"
  in the article. Usually, when X uses Y's account, he/she
  will take care to post their real identity and to state
  that they are using Y's account as guests.

I don't owe a fool like you any explanations for what goes on
in my home.  What has any of this to do with Irma grese?
  
  All evidence points to the fact that "rblackmore" posted
  this article. All we have against it is his word. But
  he has lied so many times on alt.revisionism - the Goeth
  fiasco is but one example among many - that the question
  has to be asked: why should we believe him?

rblackmore responds:

What has any of this to do with Irma Grese?
Why should anyone believe you--a crypto-necrophiliac.
Do you deny it?  All those naked bodies you enjoy looking 
posting on alt revisionism....rb
  
  I consider "rblackmore" to be a rather revolting person.

And I, you, but what has any of this to do with Irma Grese?

>  His articles on alt.revisionism are bad enough. Unfortunately,
>  whatever he tries to "accomplish" by hounding teenagers
>  is probably much worse.

What has any of this to do with Irma Grese?
You are a sad little impotent man. Your impotence is starkly revealed
whenever you resort to the lowlife tactics of name calling and personal slander. 
 Unfortunately for you, it is not helping your lost cause. You are losing the fight and all the 
dirt slinging in the world will not save your abysmal Holobunk stories.
You were already castigated by Mike Stein for misrepresenting this
whole thread, yet you shamefully continue to do so.  The fact is, Goeth
had come under charges by the SS, and would undoubtedly have been
executed had not the end of the war precluded the event.  In any case,
he was re-arrested and tried by the Poles, where he was sentenced to 
death and executed.  Unlike Irma Grese, Goeth deserved strict punishment
for his offenses.  Now, why do you bring this up when you are supposed to
be replying to a thread on Irma Grese?-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 20 07:02:59 PST 1996
Article: 86902 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.kis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days-Pogrom at Kaunas
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:07:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <595uto$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32b676ef.596155@news.spry.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 16 Dec 1996 13:16:06 GMT, tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) wrote:
>  
>  
>  >Dammit Dr. Keren.  You beat me!
>  
>  He is always beating you, Mr. Bellinger.
>  
>>>>
With a cellophane whip?


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 20 10:48:22 PST 1996
Article: 87024 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:30:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <595sni$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <58q8id$d7c$2@gruvel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd11-093.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  In article <01bbe62c$5b093460$4ed0d6cc@tstedham.dbtech.net>, 
>  Thomas Stedham  wrote:
>   
>   >But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
>   >said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
>  
>  I visited the Auschwitz Museum in October 1987 in what had
>  been Auschwitz I.
>  
>  I did not see the plaque. Perhaps I missed it.
>  Could you tell me where it was?
>  
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Look them up in photographs from the period.  there were 19 of them.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 20 22:01:21 PST 1996
Article: 87110 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:29:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <595sm4$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Irma Grese.
>  
>  Your new secret identity, Jane/Joe?
>  
>>>>
Keep those knickers up, Miss Flower.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 20 22:01:22 PST 1996
Article: 87113 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 17 Dec 1996 10:34:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <595t0b$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <58rhs0$sj5@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   lness@indiana.edu (Lester John Ness) writes:
>  	Look at how much better off Germany was in 1945 than in 1935!  All
>  thanks to Hitler! 
>  
>  	Note to the dense : the above message is irony.
>  
>  -- 
>  Lester Ness	lness@indiana.edu
>  
>>>>
I wouldn't thank Hitler for that one.  Rather, I'd thank Roosevelt.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 20 23:02:30 PST 1996
Article: 87120 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:44:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <59613j$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  The camp of Belzec was situated north-east of the Tomaszo'w to Lemberg
  [Lvov] road beyond the village of Belzec. As the camp needed a siding
  for the arriving transports the camp was built about 400 meters from
  Belzec station. The camp itself was divided into two sections: section
  1 and section 2. The siding led directly from Belzec station into
  section 2 of the camp, in which the undressing barracks as well as the
  gas installations and the burial field were situated...
  
  The gassing of Jews which took place in Belzec camp up till 1 August
  1942 can be divided into two phases. During the first series of
  experiments there were two to three transports consisting of four to
  six freight cars each holding twenty to forty persons. On the average
  150 Jews were delivered and killed per transport. At that stage the
  gassings were not yet part of a systematic eradication action but were
  carried out to test and study closely the camp's capacity and the
  technical problems involved in carrying out a gassing...
  
  At the beginning of May 1942 SS-Oberfuehrer Brack from the Fuehrer's
  chancellery suddenly came to Lublin. With Globocnik he discussed
  resuming the extermination of the Jews. Globocnik said he had too few
>  people to carry out this programme. Brack stated that the euthanasia
>  programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
>  detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
>  Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would
>  not be possible for the Einsatzgruppen to clear individual areas of
>  Jews and the people in the large ghettos of Warsaw and Lemberg by
>  shooting them, the decision had been taken to set up two further
>  extermination camps which would be ready by 1 August 1942, namely
>  Treblinka and Sobibor. The large-scale extermination programme 
>  [Vernichtungsaktion] was due to start on 1 August 1942.
>  
>  About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff
>  returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until
>  1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports
>  (as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars
>  containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two
>  of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth
>  had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a 
>  much larger capacity. It was here that the Jews from the rest of the
>  transport were gassed.
>  
>  During the first experiments and the first set of transports in the
>  second series of experiments bottled gas was still used for gassing;
>  however, for the last transports of the second series of experiments
>  the Jews were killed with the exhaust gases from a tank or lorry
>  engine which was operated by Hackenholt.
>  
>>>>
1747---

The discovery of the body of a Christian during the spring thaw in a
nearby village was the base of a ritual murder trial in the town of Zaslav
in Volhynia.  A peasant informed the authorities that the Jews of Zaslav
had been praying and feasting the whole night.  The Bernardine monks 
decided thar they were celebrating the murder.   The community elders
were charged and, (allegedly) under torture, one confessed.  The leaders
were then executed.....An uninterrupted string of ritual murder charges followed 
the Zaslav case; for the next 15 years they were an annual occurance."

(Anit-Semitisim-Causes and Effects)  Philosophical Library, 1983.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:17 PST 1996
Article: 87126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heinrich Lohse Was Dead and Living in Germany?
Date: 17 Dec 1996 12:24:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <5963ds$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <595fh6$ffs@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd11-093.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) wrote:
>  : :>tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) writes:
>  
>  : :># Lohse, by the way, was murdered by an assassin in
>  : :># 1943 in Russia.
>  
>  : As usual, the Tooter is wrong.  Lohse was released from prison in 1951 due to
>  : health reasons and died in 1964.
>  
>  I know I'll get in trouble with the ZOG for revealing this, but Toodles
>  *was* right.  In 1943, Lohse was murdered and *replaced by an exact 
>  duplicate*.  It was this duplicate, created in the secret underground
>  UFO cloning laboratories, who was imprisoned after the war, and who
>  in 1951 was released from prison for "health reasons" (i.e. the original
>  procedure was failing) and replaced by a *second* exact duplicate.
>  When this duplicate failed in 1964, the experiment was terminated.
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>  "How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?"
>  
>>>>
Silly man.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:18 PST 1996
Article: 87138 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Do The Nazis Have Pictures/Movies Of An Actual Shower Full Of People Getting Gased?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:35:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <59g3vq$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59ar41$j4i@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Jeff  writes:
>  I'd like to know. 
>  
>  "Pro-Holocaust" people have "TONS" of evidence linking the death of millions
>  to death camps, but no movies?
>  
>  How about pictures of what a shower looked like after a gassing?
>  
>  
>>>>
Winds of war?  The pseduo-docudrama "The Holocaust"...?  Outside of
fiction, you will find none.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:18 PST 1996
Article: 87140 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A message from jbelling
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:31:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <59g3od$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <598eca$9mn$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>

>  
>  Let me repeat that you would do better to take
>  what I write at face value.
>  
>  
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Enough of your nonsense.  Let's move on to the issues of
revisionism.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:19 PST 1996
Article: 87141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:28:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <59g3j4$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
  about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
  were 120 children from the village of Zamosc.
  
  All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the
  Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
  who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
  participated in the gassing operations).
  
  Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by 
 the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
  1945 (p. 153-4):
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------                                       
  The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with 
  injections were begun in 1942.
  
  "First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
  know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
  looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
  phenolic acid".
  
  First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart:
  "I assume that the intravenous method took too long".

snip
  
  The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to
  4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had
  served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a
 free man.
 
  -Danny Keren.
  
>>>>
On April 22, 1823, on Easter Sunday, 21/2 year old Feodor Jemeljanov
 of Welisch, (Russia), disappeared without a trace.  His body was found
 one week later.  The whole body was covered in abrasions, as if it had
 been rubbed with a rough object.  The finger-nails were cut off, and the
 tiny body was covered with small puncture wounds.  Circumcision had
 been performed.  A doctor testified that the child had been deliberately
 tortured to death.  After years of investigation, the crime was solved.  A
 large number of Jews were arrested.  Three Russian women converted 
to Judaism made a full confession, in which they named their accomplices
 and the brutal manner in which they carried out the murder.  The result of 
the trial was a surprise to many:  the three Russian converts to judaism were
 convicted of the crime, while the perpetrators of the deed, according to the
 women, were released.



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:20 PST 1996
Article: 87147 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:13:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <59g682$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59c9dl$uv2$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message  -
>  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi)Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:00:06 -0800
>  writes:
>  :>
>  :>In article <19961218211800.QAA03240@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tutu101@aol.com
>  :>(Tutu101) wrote:
>  :>
>  :>> Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
>  :>> you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
>  :>> as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
>  :>> lamb,
>  :>
>  :>Are you admitting (again) that you are in fact the Troll-Joseph Bellinger ?
>  :>
>  :>[posted/emailed]
>  
>  He must be, because the e-mail sent to me, to which he is alluding, was sent
>  by rblackmore!
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Was that a deliberate mistake?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:20 PST 1996
Article: 87151 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 19 Dec 1996 20:02:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <59c6vv$ep9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32bb1b30.4635765@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad67-172.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <599o48$jnh$1@uhura.phoenix.net>, Irma Grese
>  <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> wrote:
>  
>  >And now- drum roll please maestro by special request the one and only
>  >				Irma Grese.
>  >
>  >Is this not one beautiful woman, the very essence of Teutonic beauty.
>  
>  She looks like a guy in drag to me.
>  
>  But if you say she's beautiful, I can't complain. To each his or her
>  own.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
What she was, was a 21 year old girl who was murdered on the basis of
false testimony, none of the claims being estabished by evidence---not even
so much as one name.  And yes, I think she was attractive as well.

rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:21 PST 1996
Article: 87163 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!tor.istar!east.istar!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Blackmore's antisemitic doggerel
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:44:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <59g4gc$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <5997nr$d1u@access5.digex.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:

  Actions speak louder than words, as
>  they say.  The same applies to your attempt to deny that you had any
>  antisemitic sentiment when quoting that rhyme.  In that context, your
>  denial is rather hard to swallow. 

   You had just got done making some disparaging comments about a group
of people and what terrible things they had done to you.  (And you are
paranoid - the "no permission to talk" message can happen due to ordinary
technical problems not caused by any malicious attack.)  You then said
these terrible people might be celebrating Hanukkah, after which you
quoted the antisemitic doggerel.

Mike Stein

No, I had no anti-Semitic element when posting the rhyme.  What I related was
a series of spaming attacks from a mysterious party or parties.  I have since read
somewhere that there exists a number of such spams emanating from Vancouver..
where false headers are inserted.......coincidental?

Indeed what was done to me by whatever group of people was terrible and
reprehensible.  The "no permission to talk" may or may not signify what you
say it means.  I am not paranoid.  I never referred to anyone celebrating Hannukah
as "terrible".  You are getting sloppy, Michael.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:22 PST 1996
Article: 87166 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:44:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <59gbh8$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <598nmh$ike$2@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : >   "Thomas Stedham"  writes:
>  : 
>  : .
>  : >  
>  : >  My questions are simple: a) was/is there a plaque at Auschwitz? b) has it
>  : >  been changed to reflect a lower bodycount? c) if so, why?
>  : >  
>  : >  
>  : >>>>
>  : There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz all repeating the same lies
>  : in different languages.  Each and every slab has now been etched
>  : out.--rb
>  
>  
>  You have repeated this assertion several times now.
>  On my visit to Auschwitz in 1987 I did not see any
>  of these 19 plaques. I could have missed them.
>  Where were they placed?
>  
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
I have only seen them in photos reproduced in newspapers and books.
There were indeed 19 of them and they were all inscribed in different
languages of the world.  All the better to brainwash you, my dear!


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:23 PST 1996
Article: 87167 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:48:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <59gbq1$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59eqvq$5u1@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : That has already been addressed, though not to your liking, I am
>  : sure.  Now, do you claim to read hebrew or not?  Perhaps you can answer
>  : a question in a straight forward manner for once in your life.  Just once.  
>  : try it.--rb
>  
>  
>  I don't read Hebrew, and never claimed I did.  
>  
>  Gee, this answering questions in a "straight forward" manner is fun!  
>  Your turn, Mr. Belling--why did you send the following message to 
>  Harold Covington of the National Socialist White People's Party?
>  

Why do you ask after you have already been given an answer?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:23 PST 1996
Article: 87168 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:45:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <59gbji$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  >>  In article <01bbe62c$5b093460$4ed0d6cc@tstedham.dbtech.net>, 
>  >>  Thomas Stedham  wrote:
>  >>   
>  >>   >But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
>  >>   >said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
>  >>  
>  >>  I visited the Auschwitz Museum in October 1987 in what had
>  >>  been Auschwitz I.
>  >>  
>  >>  I did not see the plaque. Perhaps I missed it.
>  >>  Could you tell me where it was?
>  >>  
>  >>  d.A.
>  >>  
>  >Look them up in photographs from the period.  there were 19 of them.--rb
>  
>  Amazing. You've already admitted this is not true, and now you're
>  repeating the untruth. Liar.
>  
>>>>
Miss Flower, DO try and keep track of the threads.  Don't you have crumpets
to bake or a tuffet to sit upon?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:24 PST 1996
Article: 87173 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:29:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <59g74h$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59c0rh$ej1$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:


  
  In any event, those who had ample opportunity to hear
  Himmler did not cast doubt upon the authenticity, even
  though it was in their interest to do so.

Sorry to disappoint you, but his colleagues DID cast doubt on the
authenticity of this recording.  Among them Oswald Pohl, Gottlob
Berger, and Sepp Dietrich.
  
  I grant Himmler's colleagues iand subordinates more credibility 
  on this matter than I grant you.

Good.  Now that you have their opinions, I take it you and I are in
agreement?--rb


  In any event, If you, as your last posting implies, firmly believe
  the recording to be a forgery, why not take up the challenge to
  have it tested? If you firm belief is then substantiated, you
  have lost nothing, but gained a lot.

No, as I have often stated, the words are really not of particular
significance, IMO.  They are no more hateful or inciting than the
words of Ilya Ehrenburg and Morgenthau and kaufmann.
  
  
   I merely comment that the remarks are really insignificant
  and do not lend support to your claims that Jews were being gassed.
  
  
  The claim is not mine. Its authorship is shared by a number of
  people, including Hoss and Eichmann, whose authority on the matter
  is well-documented. The claim cannot possibly be of my authorship,
  since it was circulating long before I was even born.

Yes, well Hoess and Eichmann are rather poor witnesses.  I do not place
much stock in anything either of them had to say.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:25 PST 1996
Article: 87175 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:20:44 GMT
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  karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) writes:
  
  To M. Stein:  You are, of course, correct when you write that these events
  occurred in 1937.  However, Koch was charged and executed in the forties,
  as well as another commandaer, I believe.  Hoess was under investigation
  by SS authorities as well, and a deposition was taken by one Eleanor
  Hodyss, a mistress of the ex-commandant.  This deposition was to be used
  as evidence against him by the SS judicial authorities.  The investigation
  had the full backing of Himmler.  Grabner was also arrested by the SS and
  charged with crimes, as was Goeth.  However, due to the late period in
  time when their crimes came to light, they were later re-arrested and
  executed by the Poles.  I am confident that I shall uncover many more such
  cases as I continue to do research.
  
  Joe, there's a curious lacuna in all the above: "under investigation" for
  WHAT? "arrested by the SS" for WHAT? WHAT crimes were involved? You have
  been arguing that SS men were punished for cruelty toward Jews, but you
  have presented evidence only that the SS occasionally arrested, charged,
  or investigated its members for "crimes" which you consistently refuse to
  specify (except, as I recall, at the beginning of your discussion of SS
  arrests, when you demonstrably lied).

No, I never lied.  I never lie.  It would be playing into your hands.
It was misinformation, and no fault of my own.  Check with Mike Stein about it.
  
In spite of your unprovoked insults, I will answer your question:

You ask what crimes were being investigated.  In the past, I have posted
a number of cases where SS men were investigated and punished for
mistreatment of prisoners.  I have also posted proof of Himmler authorizing
the State Prosecutor of Bavaria to investigate alleged crimes and murders
conducted by guards at dachau, and giving his consent that any proven
cases of murder andmistreatment should be punished to the fullest extent of
the law.  I have shown where Koch was tried and executed by the SS authorities
in full view of the inmates and personnel at Buchenwald for crimes committed
while he was commandant.  Among those crimes was murder.  I have also
posted the fact that SS Judicial authorities received the permission of Himmler
to begin investigating other crimes and corruption in the German camps.  himmler
authorized the investigation of Rudolf Hoess, who was scheduled to be arrested
by SS authorities.  Others arrested were Amon Goeth and Maximillian Grabner.

The fact is, it takes time to investigate crimes which by their very nature, were
difficult to investigate in closed camps like Auschwitz and the rest.  Auschwitz was
particularly difficult to investigate, as they were usually in quarantine due to the 
epidemics there.  Consequently it was difficult to gain access to this camp.  In
the book "Anus Mundi" the Polish author writes how anything compromising would
be hidden by Hoess and his close staff whenever Himmler was due to arrive for
inspections.  This is confirmed by others as well.  The witness Eleanor Hodyss,
Hoess's mistress at Auschwitz, was interrogated by SS investigators in Munich,
who were seeking an arrest warrant on Hoess for charges of murder, among other
crimes.  Thus, your question is answered.  there is still much more research needed
in this area, and hopefully I or someone else will provide more details in the future.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:26 PST 1996
Article: 87176 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:22:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  >  tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) writes:
>  
>  >  >To M. Stein:  You are, of course, correct when you write that these events
>  >  >occurred in 1937.  However, Koch was charged and executed in the forties,
>  >  >as well as another commandaer, I believe.  Hoess was under investigation
>  >  >by SS authorities as well, and a deposition was taken by one Eleanor
>  >  >Hodyss, a mistress of the ex-commandant.  This deposition was to be used
>  >  >as evidence against him by the SS judicial authorities.  The investigation
>  >  >had the full backing of Himmler.  Grabner was also arrested by the SS and
>  >  >charged with crimes, as was Goeth.  However, due to the late period in
>  >  >time when their crimes came to light, they were later re-arrested and
>  >  >executed by the Poles.  I am confident that I shall uncover many more such
>  >  >cases as I continue to do research.
>    
>  >  Joe, there's a curious lacuna in all the above: "under investigation" for
>  >  WHAT? "arrested by the SS" for WHAT? WHAT crimes were involved? You 
>  have
>  >  been arguing that SS men were punished for cruelty toward Jews, but you
>  >  have presented evidence only that the SS occasionally arrested, charged,
>  >  or investigated its members for "crimes" which you consistently refuse to
>  >  specify (except, as I recall, at the beginning of your discussion of SS
>  >  arrests, when you demonstrably lied).
>  
>  	The lacuna is neither curious nor inexplicable.  As has been posted here 
>  several times the Morgen investigations were for embezzlement.  In Koch's case he 
>  was convicted as well of murdering two non-Jewish inmates who could provide 
>  evidence against him.  The murders took place after the investigation began.  The 
>  details of these cases can be found, among other places, in "Soldiers of Evil" by 
>  Tom Segev.  That work is significant to this discussion becasue "blackmore" 
>  claims that he owns and has read it.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
Yes, I do own it and I have read it.  Would you like me to quote to you from
a particular page in the pb edition to prove it to you?  However, I need to
say that this book, while interesting, is far from an authoritative and final
authority on the subject.  Much research needs to be done here.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:26 PST 1996
Article: 87177 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:29:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  
>  What was that again about SS concerns over the proper treatment of
>  prisoners? Not even Morgan, the SS officer who had Koch (and many others)
>  arrested in regard to his _corruption_ investigations, could have been 
>  very concerned about "proper treatment" of prisoners if he had four
>  prisoners killed in his zeal to root out SS _corruption_ in the
>  concentration camps! 
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  Mark

We can always rely upon Mark for posting all the old wives tales, which have
not even an iota of truth in them.  Of course mark, now having opened this can
of worms, is expected to provide proof that Morgen was charged, convicted, and
sentenced for these alleged murders.  Where is it Mark?  Get that foot out of your
mouth and prepare to stick the other one in....rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:27 PST 1996
Article: 87178 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:40:03 GMT
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   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  : Mr. Anderson--it is hardly fair to snip one remark out of context when I have 
  : written pages of opinion on this very question.  My explanation is still valid and
  : I fail to see your point.  
  
  My point, Mr. Belling, is that BEFORE you were challenged to "put up
  or shut up," you stated that the Himmler tape (if valid) was an 
  important piece of evidence.  AFTER your were challenged to "put
  up or shut up," you fell back on the notion that it wasn't so 
  important after all--that Herr Himmler was just having a bit of fun.

No, Mr. Anderson-I never regarded this speech as particularly significant.
My contention is that an attempt is being made to read more into it than
is actually suggested.  Himmler's words, if accurate, are no more inciting
than those of Ilya Ehrenburg or Henry Morgenthau.


  
  
   And please do not refer to me as an "associate" of Harold
   Covington--I do not know the man.  
  
  You exchange private, sneering, antisemitic email with him though,
 don't you?

I answered a question Mr. Covington sent to scores of people.
It was not private email.  Sorry to disappoint you.


>  
 
  Merry Christmas, Mr. Belling,
  
  Bill
  
>>>>
As usual, you make mountains out of molehills.  Merry Christmas, Bill.
Peace on Earth and Good Will to all Men,,,and women.  And Happy
Hannukah to all my Jewish acquaintances on alt revisionism.  "Hannukah,
Hannukah, 13 days of celebration....."  I wonder if Mr. Covington will now
begin to refer to me as a Jewish plant?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:28 PST 1996
Article: 87179 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:21:14 GMT
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   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
  


  
  
  But "rblackmore"s the precise answer:
  
  Look them up in photographs from the period.  there were 19 of them.--rb
  
  
  
>  Gord McFee tries to inject a note of sanity and reason:

There can be no sanity and reason from the insane and irrational, as applies
to Mr. McFee and Nizkooks in general.
  
  No dummy, d.A was *there*.  You were not.  He asks you where the plaque was,
  since you claimed to know what it says.  Since you lied about that, why
>  shouldn't we expect that you are lying about the plaque too?

How can I "lie" about placques which have been photographed by news
and press agencies for posterity?  Silly person.
  
  
  d.A. continues:
>  
>  In Room 1 of Block 4 there was an urn. "The urn with a handful of ashes,
>  collected in the Birkenau terrain, commemorates '4 million of those'
>  who had perishhed there."

Yes, and these alleged four million were what--Eskimoes?  Are you so
dense?
  
  p. 19 of "Auschwitz 1940-1945  Guide-Book through the Museum"
  Krajowa Agencja Wydawnicza,  1981
  ISBN 83-03-01330-0.
  
  The same page contains:
  
  "4 millin persons perished in the 'Konzentrationslager
  Auschwitz-Birkenau', 4 million persons from all the countries 
  under Nazi occupation."
  
  [The reader who is at least semi-literate will have observed
  that the word "Jew" is missing from this text.]
  
So?  What is your contention, then, that 1.5 million Jews were killed at
Auschwitz and 2.5 million Gentiles?  Is that what you are now asking us 
to swallow?  Lotsa luck...-rb

>  In fact the reader of this guide-book who is looking for a single
>  location where there is mention of 4 million Jewish victims
>  will be sorely disappointed.

Disappointed?--rb
>  
>  In fact, the abiding impression is that the Jewish victims are
>  down-played in this guide-book, as in the Museum at the time
>  of my visit.

Perhaps those jewish "victims" were a figment of someones vivid imagination.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:28 PST 1996
Article: 87180 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:15:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
You know, Gordon, you are starting to finally lose it so much that you are
sounding more and more like Raj Gandhi every day....perhaps you are....
At any rate, I never lied.  I didn't have the source in front of me and I
corrected the info later.  however, it is clear that the alleged jewish victims
of Auschwitz were simply counted as Polish Nationals by the Communist 
Regime.  If this figure did not refer to 4 million jews, then supply us with the
evidence which proves how many people of different nationalities were sent
to Auschwitz and never returned.  I won't advise anyone to hold their
breath.......BTW, you must love that ditty, you keep quoting it.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:29 PST 1996
Article: 87181 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:11:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
   
   The "little deception" as you call it, rests with the Auschwitz Museum,
   and with you, who seeks to exonerate their mendacity.--rb
  
  
  I have in front of me a pamphlet entitled:
  "Auschwitz -
  A Crime against Mankind
  Auschwitz Exhibition 1986-1987"
  Copyright of the Auschwitz State Museuem, Oswiecim, 1986
  in which it states (the pages bear no numbers)
  
  
  
 "The most grandiose center [sic] of Nazi genocide
 was the death cam in Oswiecim-Brzezinka (Konzentrationalger
 Auschwitz-Birkenau) in which some four million people brought
  there from all over Europe lost their lives."
  
  ....
  
  "According to the bill of the Polish Seym
  (Parliament), the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum
  is the Monument to the Martyrdom of Poles and 
>  Other Nations,...."
>  
>  
>  The latter part of the pamphlet contains a number of
>  photgraphs, one of which is of a plaque which is part
>  of the International Monument in Auschwitz II Birkenau.
>  
>  It reads:
>  
>  "FOUR MILLION
>  PEOPLE SUFFERED
>  AND DIED HERE
>  AT THE HANDS
>  OF THE NAZI
>  MURDERERS
>  BETWEEN THE YEARS
>  1940 AND 1945"
>  
>  There is a photograph below this one
>  of a plaque in Hebrew which is part
>  of the same monument.
>  Since I cannot read or understand
>  Hebrew I cannot translate it
>  
>  The pamphlet also features a photograph
>  of John PAul II in front of this
>  monument on 7th June, 1979.
>  
>  
>  Now, where are those plaques claiming
>  that there were 4,000,000 Jewish
>  victims in Auschwitz?

I already clarified this in a previous post.  I did not have the
article in front of me when I posted.  There were indeed 19
such inscribed slabs and none of them specifically mentioned
Jews, but it is quite implicit.  Otherwise, how did publications like
Pictorial history of the Jewish People come up with this quote?
I have no problem with your quotes, but tell me----
Who do you think the four million refer to?  Will you supply us
with lists of the deported from other countries of Europe who 
were NOT Jewish, and who were sent to Auschwitz?  


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:30 PST 1996
Article: 87183 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:40:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Doc Tavish <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> writes:
>  william c anderson wrote:
>  > 
>  >  to rblackmore@juno.com
>  > 
>    Like the lying nazi you are, you're trying to change the
>  > terms of the debate before it jumps back and bites you.  Here, watch
>  > this:
>  > 
>  > Nazi-boy:  Historians have reduced the number of Jews killed at
>  >            Auschwitz without reducing the total number of dead
>  >            Jews!
>  > 
>  > Normal Person:  But historians never accepted the figure of four
>  >                 million Jews killed at Auschwitz, and it wasn't
>  >                 used in figuring the final total.
>  > 
>  > Nazi-boy:  But it was on the History Channel!
>  > 
>  > See how ludicrous that is?  Say hi to Winston for us, nazi-boy.

You can say hi to Winston yourself.  I am not your errand boy.  A few
months ago I was accused of being Zundels agent.  Who will it be next?--rb
 
>  Bill have you spent your "thirty pieces of silver" yet?
>  I have noticed this one common thread amongst the Kremlin Operative that
>  parallels Clinton's "Damage Control" squad. Don't deal with the facts
>  just assassinate the character of the other person. Why can't you all
>  come up with newer terms other than nazi-boy, nazi-scum, trashie, and
>  moron. People are watching how all of you talk and I am having to go to
>  the computer store tomorrow to buy a new Zip Drive in order to receive
>  and hold all the favorable E-Mail I've been getting since I first got on
>  in the past eight days. You all are losing and that is why you stoop to
>  demonizing your oppositon. We are in the people's court Bill and a fair
>  judgement is being rendered now.
>  
>  Doc Tavish
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:31 PST 1996
Article: 87184 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:37:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <595uat$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>   destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke) writes:
>  >>  On 14 Dec 1996 04:54:55 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>
>  >No need for all this debate,.  The figure of 4 million was given, but Polish
>  >sources strictly broke down the figures of the alleged dead--and the Jews
>  >won by a long shot.
>  
>      More details would be greatly appreciated.  Little things like source,
>  year, you know.  If the tablets were written decades ago and the breakdown
>  done recently, it tells you nothing about what the party line was when the
>  tablets were first engraved.  Wouldn't you agree?
>  
>      Posted/emailed.
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
The party line seems to have been to downplay the victims as jews, and refer
to them only as citizens of other countries.  It doesn't change the fact that the
overwhelming majority of these alleged 4 million still would have been jews.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:31 PST 1996
Article: 87185 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:36:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <598l0g$bto@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >>  On 17 Dec 1996 09:54:48 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  >There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz all repeating the same lies
>  >>  >in different languages.  Each and every slab has now been etched
>  >>  >out.--rb
>  >>  
>  >>  And not one of them said 'Jews.'
>  >>  
>  >>  Amazing!
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  
>  >It didn't have to say "Jews".  That was clearly implicit.  Stop playing
>  >dumb and dumber.-rb
>  
>      Rather than engaging in empty assertion and namecalling, perhaps you
>  would like to explain what facts and/or text and which rules of textual
>  interpretation make it "clearly implicit" that when the Communists had a
>  chance to write "Jews" but instead wrote "human beings," they nevertheless
>  meant "Jews."  Or is this once again based on your telepathic powers?
>  
>      Posted/emailed.
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
Rather, why don't you supply us with a breakdown of alleged non-Jewish
deaths at Auschwitz and then let's subtract that from the 4 million.  What do
you say to that?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:32 PST 1996
Article: 87186 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:35:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>

>  The error/inflation-of-figures (choose your
>  preferred expression) affected almost exclusively
>  the number of *non-Jewish* victims of these camps.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Good.  Now give us a breakdown of those figures,.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:33 PST 1996
Article: 87187 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:42:02 GMT
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : 
>  : The "little deception" as you call it, rests with the Auschwitz Museum,
>  : and with you, who seeks to exonerate their mendacity.--rb
>  : 
>  
>  The book "Auschwitz, Nazi Extermnation Camp"
>  (Second Enlarged Edition)
>  published by Interpress Publishers
>  Warsaw, 1985
>  
>  has as the second paragraph of its text (in the Foreword):
>  
>  "In the government apparatus of the Third Reich the
>  concentration camps were the main instruments of
>  implementing the Nazi policy of terrorizing, exploiting
>  the labour resources of and physically exterminating 
>  conquered peoples, mainly Slav, above all the Polish nation
>  and the peoples of the USSR, as well as Jews and persons 
>  considered to be such under the Nuremberg Laws of 1935."
>  
>  Could you explain how this confirms the assertion so often
>  seen in this newsgroup that the Auschwitz story is all about
>  Jews and ignores other victims?
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Can you explain why in the book "German Crimes in Poland", it is
expressly stated that the Germans had not exterminated the Poles or
Russians, but only the Jews, and that undoubtedly the Poles and 
Russians would have been the next on their list had they won the war?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:34 PST 1996
Article: 87188 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 11:08:53 GMT
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  kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
  On 17 Dec 1996 11:34:11 -0500, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P.
  Stein) wrote:
  
  In article <5963ch$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <593e5s$o8e@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:



    You know, if Auschwitz was meant to hold people in "protective
custody," the Nazis certainly did a piss-poor job.  Given the death rate,
the people being "protected" would have been safer in Berlin during the
final days of the Third Reich.

Apparently this would hold true for the German staff at Auschwitz as well,
as many of them also died and lost beloved family members during the
typhus epidemics.--rb
  
  Given the assertion the intent purportedly was "extermination" the
  Germans certainly did a piss-poor job.  
  
 Don't you realize how ridiculous you sound by posting this nonsense?--rb
  
    Gee, you don't realize how ridiculous you sound posting your juvenile
one-liners and evidence-free assertions about events you did not witness
and the thoughts of people you never met. 

Well, what is it that you do with your "survivor testimony"?--rb


    What question is it that you think Mr. Van Alstine has failed to
answer? 
  
  Whether or not Irma Grese was responsible for the accusations against
  her charged at the Nuremberg Kangaroo Court.
  
And indeed what I wrote was the truth. 

   BECAUSE!  I!  SAY!  SO!

No, because it is the truth.  On what evidence was she convicted?  On the perjuring
testimony of individuals, a young woman with a whole life ahead of her was murdered
simply because THEY SAID SO, without an iota of proof!--rb
  
  Stein would rather believe it if the Nuremberger Kangaroo Court said
  so, or if any eyewitness said so.  Presumably Mike Stein still also
  believes electrocution, steaming, and tilting floors were used.
  
    Were you there?  Why should anyone believe you?
  
  Pot-kettle-black.
  
The same foulness repeated itself at belsen, where the new inmates turned the
camp into a veritable pigsty.--rb

    Let me lock you in a room with no toilet facilities.  I guarantee you
that sooner or later, you will wet and soil yourself.  Then by your rules
I can blame you for urinating and defecating "whenever the urge struck
you."  What total idiocy.

Sorry. That argument doesn't work here.  These people turned the compounds into
a wasteland of filth by their own choice.  It is curious that Compound 2 was free of
filth, as the thousands of new arrivals were not permitted access there.--rb
>  
>  Assuming eyewitness testimony is true -- always a hazard when it comes
>  to former captives testifying against former captors, especially if
>  Eastern European.
>  
>  >>Kremer was referring to people who were ill from typhus and dysentery.  they 
>  >>were covered with excrement due to their illnesses.  That is why he uses the
>  >>term "Anus Mundi".
>  >
>  >    Because!  I!  Say!  So!

No, because it makes more sense than your mythical gas chambers.--rb
>  
>  >    Gee, did you talk to Kremer and get that explanation from him
>  >personally?  If not, when did you acquire the ability to read the minds of
>  >dead people?

When did you speak with him to form another opinion>--rb
>  
>  When did you gain the ability to verify the eyewitness testimony of a
>  pool of witnesses which created such wonderful canards as 
>  electrocution and steaming?  Rather when did you obtain your
>  credulity?
>  
>  >>The sewage for Auschwitz was always inadequately built,
>  >>thus "backing up" and creating a foul stench throughout the camp, which many
>  >>prisoners imagined was the stench of burning bodies.--rb
>  >
>  >    Because!  I!  Say!  So!--

No, because that is the way it was.  You ought to read about this in more depth.
I reccoment Van Pelt's article in Anatomy of a Death Camp.--rb
>  
>  >    Were you there, that you know what smell they smelled and what really
>  >generated it?  Do you claim the ability to read the minds of dead people? 

No, but I can read the reports about the inadequate plumbing facilities at Auschwitz,
combined with the filth generated by the inmates, and then put 2 and 2 together.--rb
>  
>  Do you claim the ability to view what actually happened?   
>  
>  >Why should anyone believe you?
>  
>  Pot-kettle-black.
>  
>  >    And all you can do is assert without evidence, and then claim that you
>  >have won the argument.  He brings evidence to the table from people who
>  >were there. You simply assert on your own nonexistent authority what
>  >people were thinking and why, with ZERO evidence.  Anyone familiar with
>  >high school debate knows you would lose _automatically_. 

Sorry.  It is up to you to prove gas chambers and the like.  All you have are
accusations.  When they are not confirmed by the evidence, as indeed they are
NOT, then we must look for logical explanations to explain the distortions caused
by incessant rumor mongering.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:34 PST 1996
Article: 87189 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 11:11:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> 

>  So did the coathanger Mr. Smith's mother used.... Oh, well, I'm sure it
>  wasn't for a lack of trying. 
>  
>  [[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

Here, then, is the gist of Mark van A-hole's response to Mr. Smith's arguments.
Read it, and remember his brilliance.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:35 PST 1996
Article: 87190 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:56:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >whole thread, yet you shamefully continue to do so.  The fact is, Goeth
>  >had come under charges by the SS, 
>  
>  Under *what* charges? Please demonstrate that the charges had anything
>  to do with mistreatment of Jewish prisoners.
>  
>  No, I didn't think you could.
>  
>>>>
Well, then i won't.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:36 PST 1996
Article: 87194 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:47:32 GMT
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>   fresh@scscomm.com (Andrew Mathis) writes:

snip
>  
>>>>
How many times in history was the talmud ordered confiscated and
burned by authorities throughout the world and why would they do that?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:36 PST 1996
Article: 87204 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:53:46 GMT
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This is mainly addressed to whomever is disputing it with me--rblackmore.
It really doesn't matter.  Most of them parrot the same old tired lines anyway.

  Blackmore has returned once again to provide us with insite.
  
     mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
    In article <593e5s$o8e@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
    
    [snip]
    
     In the case of Irma Grese, one should simply reflect on the fact that 
     it is not easy to manage 20-30,000 inmates.  Auschwitz was a detention 
     center, where criminals were freely interspersed among those simply being 
     held in “protective custody”.  
    
    Mr. Belling is being quite disingenuous here in calling Auschwitz a
    "detention center." Auschwitz I and III (Monowitz) were slave labor camps.
    Auschwitz-II Birkenau was unquestionably an extermination camp. The
    prisoners held there in "protective custody" were either slated for
    extermination from being worked to death; through privation, starvation,
    and disease; and/or in the gas chambers at Birkenau. 
  
  Mark Van Alstine Propagandizing Again.-rb
  
  
 Actually he is making clear what you tend to "leave out."

Jim Dandy to the rescue......rb
    
  [Mr. Belling's Nazi apologia snipped]
    
     Grese’s duties at Auschwitz varied.  Most of her work was rather benign, 
    such as sorting through parcels and overseeing construction projects. 
    However, from May until December, 1944, Grese was appointed senior 
     Aufseherin for Compound “C”, which turned out to be the eventual cause 
     of her undoing. There she had to oversee 20-30,000 Hungarian Jewesses, all 
     held in protective custody. The huge influx of detainees created problems 
     which were addressed with difficulty by the relatively young and 
   inexperienced Grese. Most of the problems centered around the distribution
    of food.... 
   
    The fallacy of Mr. Belling's Nazi apologia is exposed by the following
    excerpt from ex-prisoner Olga Lengyel's _Five Chimneys_ (pp.103-104):
    
    "...At that time the 'selections' were made by the chief camp
    directresses, Hasse and Irma Griese. On Mondays, Wednesdays, and
    Saturdays, the roll call lasted from dawn until the end of the afternoon,
    when they had their full quota of victims.

Victims?  Roll call was to establish how many people were present.--rb
 
  Yes---well, where was she at Grese's trial?  And why should we believe her?-rb
    
  
  This is irrelevent. She wasn't needed at the Belsen trial. They had
  plenty of witnesses against her. 

No, it IS relevant, and your saying it is not is irrelevant.--rb
  
  "When these two women appeared at the camp entrance, the internees, who
  already knew what top expect, became panic stricken. The beautiful Irma
  Griese advanced toward the prisoners with a swinging gait, her hips
 swaying, and the eyes of 40,000 wretched women, mute and motionless, upon
  her. She was of medium height, elegantly dressed, with every hair in
  place. The mortal terror which her mere presence inspired visibly pleased
  her. For this twenty-two-year-old girl was completely without pity. With a
  sure hand she chose her victims, not only from the healthy but from the
  sick, the feeble, and the incapacitated. Those who, despite their hunger
  and toture, still showed a glimmer of their former physical beauty were
  the first to be taken. They were Irma Griese's special targets. 

Right.  Little ole Irma Grese terrorizing 40 thousand people.  Don't you realize how
ridiculous you sound by posting this nonsense?--rb
 
  Blackmore shows again that he is unable to read text. It says that the
  eyes of 40,000 women were on her. It doesn't say they were terrorized
  by her alone. 

mark-can you read?  Note:  "The mortal terror which her mere presence inspired
visibly pleased her."  Sounds like something out of a cheap Grade B Hollywood
movie script.  Don't try to interpret obvious texts for people.  they won't like you for it.--rb
  
  
   "During the 'selections' the 'blonde Angel of Belsen,' as she was later to
  be called by the press, made liberal use of her whip. She slashed
  everywhere she wished, and we endured as well as we could. Our shrieks of
  pain and our spurts of blood made her smile. What faultless, peraly teeth
  she had!

Now--she is given Mengele's nickname--Der Weisse Engel.....right--more
mythological tales from a "survivor" "witness" who can offer nothing in confirmation
of what she writes and who never appeared at the trial.--rb
  
  You never did finish wading through the trial did you. Once Blackmore
  found that others had the material and were pointing out his
  distortions he moved on to _The Good Old Days_ and when that didn't
 work he chose something in German. This last was pretty obscure and
  without proper identification. The games these deniers play.

 You are losing it, aren't you?  Fact is, I am not through with the
"Good Old Days yet".  I will be proceeding along in time.
  
  
  "One day in June, 1944, 315 'selected' women were pushed together into a
  washroom. In the big hall the unfortunate ones had already been kicked and
  whipped. Then Irma Griese commanded the S.S. guards to nail the door shut.
  As simple as that.

Irma Grese could not give commands to SS guards, Mikie.--rb
  
  Ewww, Mikie? This is Mark you are responding to and not me, Mr.
  Blackmore.  I think you meant Markie. The trial makes clear that she
>  gave orders, btw.

The "trial" as you call it, was a farce.  And an SS Aufseherin was not empowered to
issue orders to SS personnel in the camps.--rb
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >>  
>  >>  The mendacious Nazi apologia of Mr. Belling is once again exposed by the
>  >>  following excerpt from Deborah Dwork's and Robert Jan Van Pelt's
>  >>  _Auscwhitz: 1270 to the present_ (p.268) :
snip

r, if both stink, if both are caked with mud and feces?'
>  >
>  >Er---this hardly answers the question.  And indeed what I wrote was the truth.
>  >The same foulness repeated itself at belsen, where the new inmates turned the
>  >camp into a veritable pigsty.--rb
>  >
>  
>  Do human beings choose to live in filth, Blackmore?

Apparently they did at belsen.  There were two areas in belsen unaffected by the 
filth accumulated by the inmates--and that was Compound 2--where the new inmates 
were not permitted to enter--and the children's compound.--rb

 Do human being
>  choose to be defecated upon because they are in crowded conditions and
>  cannot move for fear of losing what little space they have? Who
>  created the conditions for the living conditions the inmates (note
>  that these are prisoners) were forced to live in.

Many of these people created a pigsty out of their environment, much as happened
at Woodstock, where people were throwing trash, urinating and defacating everywhere.
If Woodstock lasted for 3 months it would have resembled belsen.--rb
>  
>  >
>  >Marks irrelevant comments snipped
>  >
>  >>  To blame the _victims_ of this Nazi "biological disaster," and _not_ the
>  >>  Nazi perpetrators, in attempting to white-wash the crimes of Irma Griese,
>  >>  is simply malicious hypocrisy of the highest order on Mr. Belling's part. 

What crimes are these?
>  >
>  >Afraid not, Michael.--rb
>  
>  Sorry, but this is Mark. I hope that someday you can get it all put
>  together, Blackmore. Afraid not, Blackmore says. Wow, I'm impressed
>  with this kind of refutation!

There is little to refute.  You said nothing factual.--rb
>  
>  >>  
>  >>  > This would explain the pervasive stench around Auschwitz and another 
>  >>  > reason why it was referred to as “Anus Mundi”.
>  >>  
>  >>  Again, the maliciousness of Mr. Belling's dishonesty comes to the
>  >>  forefront with this puerile lie. The reference to Auschwitz being the
>  >>  "anus mundi" had no relation whatsoever as to "the pervasive stench around
>  >>  Auschwitz," as can be seen by the context it was used in by its
>  >>  originator, Joseph Kremer, in his diary (Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p.215.):
>  >
>  >Kremer was referring to people who were ill from typhus and dysentery.  they 
>  >were covered with excrement due to their illnesses.
>  
>  See my comment above. I suggest you finish reading the Belsen trial.

I have read it.
>  
>  >  That is why he uses the
>  >term "Anus Mundi".  The sewage for Auschwitz was always inadequately built,
>  >thus "backing up" and creating a foul stench throughout the camp, which many
>  >prisoners imagined was the stench of burning bodies.--rb
>  
>  Really? Citiation?

Believe what you wish, and we will allow the public to believe whatever seems most
credible to them.--rb
>  
>  >Mark snipped
>  
>  That's the way, snip your primary correspondent.

You do it all the time.  Remember?--"Belling's Nazi apologia snipped?"--rb
>  >
>  >What Kremer had to say at his trial while in the hands of the brutal Poles
>  >and Communists is of no relevance to what actually occurred in the camp.-rb
>  >
>  
>  Where is this? citation?

This needs no citation.  It is common sense.--rb
>  
>  >>  >  penalty, as the prosecution failed to live up to the burden of proof 
>  >>  > which would be required in any impartial court today.  
>  >>  
>  >>  What is clear is that Mr. Belling has offered a distorted and fallacious
>  >>  version of Irma Grese, the "blonde Angel of Belsen," in order to
>  >>  white-wash her crimes. What is equally clear is that Irma Grese was a
>  >>  torturer and assulter of prisoners was sentanced to death for her sadism
>  >>  and cruelty against the victims of Nazi mass murder and brutality. Victims
>  >>  who she helped to select and brutalize. 

Proof?  other than your mendacious professional "witnesses"?--None. of course.--rb
>  >
>  >She was never referred to as the blonde angel of Belsen, as she was only there for
>  >ONE MONTH.  This description is simply a fanciful invention of another mendacious
>  >survivor "witness" who wanted to sell a book.
>  
>  What book is this?--

Show me any other book where she is referred to as the blonde angel of belsen, other
than that ridiculous book "Five Chimnies".  Was she so referred at the trial?  NO.--rb
>  
>  >  The rest of your comments about her character
>  >and so on are not proven by the testimony or the records of the trial.  This wasn't even a good
>  >try on your part.  You lose again.  Big time,--rb
>  
>  Mr. blackmore stamps his tiny feet!

And what a loud noise they make, eh, Mark?--rb
>  
>  >>  
>  >>  In closing yet another sad chapter on Mr. Belling's lying scumbag Nazi

Ah...."lying scumbag Nazi".....how nice.....
>  >
>  >Uh huh.  More name calling from someone who is at the losing end of
>  >the argument.  That's all you can do--call people names in your frustration.-rb
>  >
>  
>  Yes, Mark has a very poor opinion of you, sir.

Poor opinion?  He has a poor opinion of himself. no self-respect.--rb
>  
>  >>  apologia, I would note that not _once_ did Mr. Belling cite a source
>  >>  reference in support for his innendo and lies. One cannot but speculate
>  >>  that Mr. Belling's story about the sadistic "blonde Angel of Belsen" is
>  >>  nothing more a figment of his puerile imagination and is yet another of
>  >>  his Nazi hero-worshipping fantasies. 
>  >
>  >Read the book.  By the way---where is the report on the alleged forensic tests
>  >allegedly conducted at Dachau.  I have only been asking for the past 7 months.
>  >Where IS that crow pie, mark?  Or have YOU already eaten it?--rb
>  >
>  >
>  
>  Dachau? Let's see, we have seen Belsen and Auschwitz in this post.
>  BTW, you have been told where to look, you just haven't pulled the
>  keyboard out of your mouth long enough to go and look.

You don't get off the hook so easily, little wiggling worm.  Where is the report?
I am fully confident that I can claim complete and overwhelming victory in
the Dachau gas chamber issue.  You have not and cannot provide the proof
for your claims.  It does not exist.  you are a fabricator and a liar, as you misrepresented
something you knew you could NEVER hope to prove.  You have NO evidence to offer.
You have lost miserably and everyone sees it.  You have also lost this little repartee
concerning Irma Grese.  You are becoming less and less of a challenge for me.  Go on
to someone else....perhaps you will have more luck.--rb





From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:37 PST 1996
Article: 87210 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news-out.internetmci.com!metro.atlanta.com!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:51:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <59gbug$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59cu31$gpn@explorer2.clark.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  
>  >On 17 Dec 1996 22:17:01 -0500, karlpov@explorer2.clark.net wrote:
>  
>  >>rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>>And I suppose you read Hebrew?
>  
>  >>I neither wrote nor implied that I read Hebrew. Why do you ask? 
>  >>My humble linguistic skills are limited to English, Esperanto (Jew
>  >>language invented to enslave the goyim),

It hasn't been very successfull to date, has it?  All you seem to have enslaved
is Chuck Feree and Gordon McFee.--rb

 Dutch, Spanish, French, 
>  >>German, some Portuguese, and a little Bulgarian.
>  
>  >Is that all?
>  
>  Well, if pressed, I might be able to make out an Italin text....
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:38 PST 1996
Article: 87214 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:59:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <59gcdl$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <597lnn$195k$15@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <595u4s$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
>  10:54:20 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>>   Marty Kelley  writes:
>  :>>  On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, tom moran wrote:
>  :>>  
>  :>>  > 
>  :>>  > >	Which proves nothing about "Gandhi". Going by his writing style,
>  :>>  > >"Gandhi" is obviously a Jew. 
>  :>>  > 
>  :>>  > 	The same goes for "McFee".
>  :>>  
>  :>>  Oooh, that's a new one, Mr. Moran--could you explain how you can tell what
>  :>>  people's ethnic/religious backgrounds are by their writing style?  This
>  :>>  will no doubt be of great use to Science.
>  :>>  
>  
>  :>Rahter than go through all that, perhaps Mr. McFee and Mr. Gandhi shall answer
>  :>the question directly.
>  
>  Perhaps Mr. "Blackmore" missed Mr. Gandhi's reply.
>  
>  As for mine, I have made it abundantly clear that I post under my own name,
>  always have and always will.  That in itself should make it likely I am not
>  Jewish, since there are few, if any, Jews named McFee (hell, there's few if
>  any *anybody* named McFee).  But to assuage Mr. "Blackmore's mind, allow me to
>  state that I am not Jewish.  Not that it matters a hill of beans.
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
I was never particularly concerned that you were.  I only considered you insane.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:39 PST 1996
Article: 87215 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:00:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <59gcfa$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <598hqp$d00@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
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>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) wrote:
>  
>  : :>>What is a Jewish writing style, anyway?
>  
>  : :>You know, words spelled right, correct grammar, stuff like that there.  
>  
>  : Oh, *that's* the secret!  No wonder I didn't know I was Jewish all this 
>  : time.  
>  
>  Well, I *did* catch you writing "verbal" when you meant "oral" -- so
>  don't expect your Official ZOG Decoder Ring just quite yet.
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>   "an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
>  
>>>>
Why don't you direct this to the author of "The Joys of Yiddish?"--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:40 PST 1996
Article: 87253 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:07:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <59gcth$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


 
  How about you answer this one, Mr. Belling:  how does it come to be that, 
  just a few short months after showing up here posing as an objective 
  truth-seeker, you were spotted exchanging antisemitic nursery rhymes with
  Harold Covington of the National Socialist White People's Party?  How 
  difficult was it to fake indignation at being called "Nazi-boy," knowing
  all along that you were indeed a Nazi, in the literal sense of the term?
  And lastly:  do you have any shame at all?

Did I exchange rhymes?  where are the others?  Am I a member of the NSWPP or
any other right wing organization?  No.  Don't you have any shame for all your lies,
gross distortions, and slanders?  Of course you don't.  is that how your mother raised 
you to be?--rb
  



>  
>  And Mr. Belling's "niece" was trying to pick-up teenage boys over the
>  Internet too. 

You're just a filthy minded pig, Mark.  Do you even HAVE a girl friend or a wife?
How could they tolerate the hateful likes of you? 
>  
>  Uh-huh. And pigs have wings. 

What was it that turned you against the world and placed a chip on your
shoulder mark?  You ought to seek pyschological couseling, and I am
serious about this.  You are a sick man.--rb
>  

For those interested in Marks steady decline into the depths of insanity,
read his hate-filled posts.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:40 PST 1996
Article: 87254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:12:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <59g657$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <19961218211800.QAA03240@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tutu101@aol.com
>  (Tutu101) wrote:
>  
>  > Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
>  > you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
>  > as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
>  > lamb,
>  
>  Are you admitting (again) that you are in fact the Troll-Joseph Bellinger ?
>  
>  [posted/emailed]
>  
>>>>
What is a troll?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:41 PST 1996
Article: 87255 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:12:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <59g64i$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32B8365A.61C6@rio.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree writes for Tutu101
>  
>  Listen hard, fella. You have been bugging me and Mike too long and 
>  it's payback time. You write and post an apology to both of us, and 
>  right now. We know that you know you made a rush to judgement, not to 
>  mention calling both of us nasty names, and making nasty insinuations, 
>  which I personally resent very much. As a member of AOL myself, for 
>  years, I think you could be in deep doodoo with your provider. So if 
>  you don't want to end up like Giwer...scorned by all, kicked off a 
>  dozen servers, and all that goes with it, you had better take the 
>  consequences of your mis-behavior. Arguing about Holocaust facts is 
>  one thing...libel is another. Think about it, kiddo!!!
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  
>  Tutu101 wrote:
>  > 
>  > Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
>  > you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
>  > as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
>  > lamb,
>  
>  Besides all that, Tutu is a cry-baby too!!!
>  Chuck
>  
>>>>
And we all see what Chuck is----why don't you regale us again with your
putrid old war stories?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:42 PST 1996
Article: 87256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:13:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <59g675$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  In article <19961218211800.QAA03240@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tutu101@aol.com
  (Tutu101) wrote:
  
   Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
   you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
   as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
   lamb,
  
  Are you admitting (again) that you are in fact the Troll-Joseph Bellinger ?
  
  [posted/emailed]
  
>>>>
What is a troll?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 11:19:42 PST 1996
Article: 87259 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:31:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <59g78j$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32c22612.3054291@news.spry.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:


>  
>  Sorry, Mr. Bellinger, a "You have no permission to talk" message
>  is the result of 1 of 3 things:
>  
>  1) An accidental or deliberately misconfigured news reader (such
>  as when one attempts to forge their name);
>  
>  2) You are attempting to access the Sprynet NNTP server from
>  outside their domain;
>  
>  3) A misconfigured router or portmaster at Sprynet.
>  
>  You can hardly blame that on those 'wascally jews' or the folks
>  at Nizkor unless you are holding them responsible for your own
>  abysmal ignorance.

Did I mention the "wascally Jews"?  And I only hold Nizkook responsible
for their own abysmal ignorance.--rb
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 13:36:26 PST 1996
Article: 87324 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:28:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <59gak5$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <597ln8$195k$12@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <595sni$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
>  10:30:10 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  :>>  In article <01bbe62c$5b093460$4ed0d6cc@tstedham.dbtech.net>, 
>  :>>  Thomas Stedham  wrote:
>  :>>   
>  :>>   >But, in 1990 or so, the Auschwitz museum in Poland removed the plaque that
>  :>>   >said 4 million jews had been killed there. (You know, the plaque the Pope
>  :>>  
>  :>>  I visited the Auschwitz Museum in October 1987 in what had
>  :>>  been Auschwitz I.
>  :>>  
>  :>>  I did not see the plaque. Perhaps I missed it.
>  :>>  Could you tell me where it was?
>  :>>  
>  
>  :>Look them up in photographs from the period.  there were 19 of them.--rb
>  
>  No dummy, d.A was *there*.  You were not.  He asks you where the plaque was,
>  since you claimed to know what it says.  Since you lied about that, why
>  shouldn't we expect that you are lying about the plaque too?
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Look it up in a newspaper, Gordie.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 16:23:30 PST 1996
Article: 87340 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Doc Tavish--Kramer V
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:56:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 151
Message-ID: <59hmfa$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd92-133.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

The original article expired from my site before i had 
a chance to reply.

Subject:      Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
From:         rblackmore@juno.com
Message-Id:   <50raj0$on2@juliana.sprynet.com>
References:   <322FF9AD.41C6@itsa.ucsf.edu>
 
rblackmore@juno.com writes:

>>  >    Brian Harmon  writes:
>>  >   , well, let me make a few points first:
>>   
>>  Numerous eyewitnesses, including Ho"ss, Broad, Kremer, Eichmann, 
>>   and Mu"ller all testified that mass gassing occurred at Auschwitz in
>>   these gas chambers.

> Well, we can discuss the merits and demerits of their case another time. 

Why not discuss them now?  Deniers repeatedly claim
that there is no evidence for the holocaust, so why are
the experiences of the people who were there _not_
relevant?

>>  
>>  Aerial photos show a rather suspicious pit near one of the Kremas 
>>   during the summer of 1944, lending credence (snip)

> OK.  What does this prove?  We know that the Kremas often broke down and
> that typhus and epidemics were a constant scourge at Auschwitz.  It was admitted
> that bodies needed to be burned out doors when the kremas were out of service.
> What else were they to do with them?  We see prisoners marching in the direction
> of the ALLEGED gas chambers.

well, you have the testimonies of the people i mentioned above
(and others) saying that the gas chambers were used to massacre
innocents, and that these bodies had to be burned in pits.

Many 'Revisionist Scholars' claim that no such burning occurred, 
and that burning human corpses in pits is simply impossible.

The fact that eyewitness accounts say that many bodies were burned in
pits and that aerial photos show one of these pits is an interesting
correllation, don't you think?

Additionally, these 'alleged gas chambers' were known to be gas 
chambers by every Nazi who worked in that camp, and many prisoners
forced to work there (such as Mu"ller.)

>>  In this article, O'Keefe claims that Larson did not find any evidence of gassing.
>>  
>>  What isn't mentioned is that mass gassing took place at camps inside Poland:
Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc.
>>   and not at Dachau, where Dr. Larson was.
>>  
>>  In Auschwitz's case, the mass gassing stopped many months _before_ the soviets
liberated the
    camp"

> No, the last gassings were alleged to have occurred at the end of October or early Nov.,
1944,
> just a few months before the liberation of the camp.

The soviets liberated the camp in January of 1945, 3 to 4 months after gassing
operations in Auschwitz stopped. Whether you call that 'many' months or a 'few'
does not change my main point:

 Any bodies murdered at Auschwitz with HCN were ashes for some time >before<
 the Soviets liberated the camp.  Therefore, doing 'autopsies' on these gassing
 victims was _impossible_.
 
>  > >  Oh? So the piles of starved corpses found there died due to
>  > >   'disease?'
>  > 
>  > Yes.  typhus and dysentery are "wasting diseases".
>  
>  Are you honestly saying the Nazis did not have any responsibilty for the 
>   many thousands of inmates they let die from these diseases?

I think that responsibility is measured in degrees.  It is not an easy question
to address.  Many Germans also died from typhus in the camps.  Typhus is no 
respecter of persons.
  
> Yes, but there were thousands of inmates crowded into the camp in the last months
> of the war.  That was not Kramer's fault.  He tried to refuse them or send them
> elsewhere, but the authorities wouldn't permit it.

Really? Where did Kramer say this?

IF this was true, why is it that the camp guards looked quite healthy
in relation to the prisoners?  You say that Kramer tried to prevent
the death from disease and starvation, but it appears that there was
quite a bit of food around.

[for reference, please see http://modb.oce.ulg.ac.be/schmitz/Holocaust/sswomen.html]
[ images of the starved inmates can be found at
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg ]
  
Let's stay on the subject of Kramer, shall we?

There's a book out called 'the belsen trial' which discusses the 
prosecution of Kramer (and many other nazis). It seems that many
of Kramer's colleagues had some not-so-nice things to say about him:

[from http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/belsen.02]
[originally posted by Danny Keren]

Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to 
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.

Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".


>>  You don't think the fact that the inmates were starving to death had
>>   anything to do with there susceptiblity to disease? Or the squalid conditions
>>   they were forced to live under?

> Yes, of course.  But conditions in the camp had only deteriorated in 1945.

According to what i posted above, it was Kramer's fault.

> Mr. Harmon-your post is unconvincing, especially since you mention Mark Van Alstine.

Amazing. So, your main point is that because i mention a person you don't
like, my post is unconvicing?  

I find that alarming, as i'd hope you'd actually take a look at the 
material i presented instead.


Brian Harmon 
==========================
brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 16:23:31 PST 1996
Article: 87345 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Doc Tavish--Kramer II
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:39:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Brian Harmon  writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > Mr. Harmon posed a question recently which concerned Commandant Kramer.
>  > I promised I would get back to him soon on the subject, and true to my word,
>  > here is my reply.  
>  
>  I certainly appreciate it.
>  
>  My name's Brian, btw. 
>   
>  > We had been discussing the conditions the allies found at Belsen upon liberation,
>  > and whether Kramer was responsible for those conditions.  It was and is my
contention
>  > that he was not, for the following reasons, which may be found in the book, "The
Belsen
>  > Trial::
>  > 
>  > When Kramer was appointed as Commandant of the Belsen camp, this is what he was
told:
>  > 
>  > "He was....told that Belsen was to become a Krankenlager, a camp for sick people
>from  all
>  > the other camps in North West Germany.  He was not told that thousands would be
coming
>  > pouring in from the Eastern part of Germany as the Russians advanced.  On 1st
December
>  > he arrived at Belsen and on the next day he wrote a letter....to his former chief at
Auschwitz
>  > in which he described what Belsen was like.....
>  
>  Er, what year was this? 1944?

Yes.  He had been called to Oswald Pohl's office in December 1944, and told
that he was to be appointed to oversee Belsen-which was to become a reception
center for sick inmates from other camps.  Kramer undoubtedly thought that this
job was to be relatively simple.  Just looking after convalescing inmates.  Little did
he know.......
>  
>  
>  > It is clear to me that Kramer was doing everything he could to make the best out of
>  > a bad situation.
>  
>  I disagree. For one, he was once the Kommandant of Birkenau (not all of auschwitz),
>

Wait.  Let's stop right here.  We are discussing Belsen and what he was charged with in
regard to that camp.  I will not digress from the subject.  If you want to discuss his 
activities at Auschwitz, address it in a new post.  I had the courtesy to
address your request, so please have the courtesy to remain within the
 perimeters of the Belsen camp.
  So, your reason for rejecting
what I have just told you about his appointment and responsibilites is unacceptable.
>  
>  If the people were starving, why didn't Kramer get the food to feed them? it
>  was available, as his cross examination shows:
>  
This is easily answered.  These were Wehrmacht supplies and Kramer had no jurisdiction
over the Wehrmacht.  He had no authority to issue any orders to Wehrmacht personnel.
He could not requisiton these supplies.  
>  
>  ---Was the reason that you did not go to the General [Glücks ? - HWM] and tell 
>  him exactly what was happening because you were frightened to tell any decent 
>  person what was going on in your camp? - No.

Of course he couldn't.  Gluecks was seriously ill at the time and was no longer in charge.
Pohl and Hoess were in charge and I have already given you the document that 
Kramer did indeed PLEAD for their help.  They were the ones who misrepresented
both his duties and the state of affairs to Kramer.  It was NOT his fault, and you should
be able to see that.
>  
>  ---Is it not the truth of the matter that you never tried in any way to help 
>  these people at all?   -  That is not true. I have written to several firms to 
>  get  additional food.

Well, you have answered your own question.  He asked and was refused.
He couldn't very well bake the loaves himself.  He did whatever he could, and
that is all one can expect from any human being.
>  
>  ====
>  
>  And later, during evidence given by Fritz Klein:
> when I took over, I was surprised at the comparatively huge amount 
>  of supplies which were there. ...

Well, this is hardly Kramer's fault.  It rests with the doctor who was in charge.  he
would have to be examined on this point.

>  ..  On the same day I took over from the stores a huge amount of tinned milk, 
>  meat, cake or biscuits and told the doctors that these should be distributed 
>  among the children, women and sick prisoners who really did require them.

And according to your same source, the children were fortunately in a state of
fairly good health.
>  
>  ---Could you give us any idea of the quantity of stocks of milk, meat and 
>  biscuits? - These tins were packed and filled a room 4 metres in length, 5 
>  metres in width and approximately 3 metres in height.

Well, it was his duty to distribute these items, which was done.  
>  
>  =====
>  
>  For reference, these quotes are also taken from 'The Belsen Trial.

I see no contradiction with what I have told you.
>  
>  Lastly. there is the testimony of other people in the camp:
>  

>  Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
>  ------------------------------------------------------------

. Kramer said he did
>  not take orders from me.

What are you intending to prove by this?  It is a fact that Klein had
no authority to issue commands to Kramer.  Kramer was perfectly aware
of the horrific problems confronting him and he didn't need Klein's meddling,
which was merely telling him what he already knew.  Kramer did not have to
explain his actions to Klein.  Undoubtedly Klein was completely unaware of
the many attempts Kramer had made to seek help for the camp through
the proper channels.  It was Kramer who arranged for the peaceful surrender of
the camp to the allies-not Klein.
>  
>  Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
>  
This quote is simply absurd.  She had no authority to issue orders to Kramer 
either.  I do not believe her.  She was charged by the British as well, and as
such was only concerned for her own hide.  The easiest thing in the world
for an underling to do is shift blame on to one's superior.  In Kramer's case
it was justified.  In hers it was not.  Her alleged quotes are unimportant.  It
is her word against Kramer.  The evidence which Kramer presented to the court 
was compelling.  One can see that he did indeed make an effort to address the
problems in his camp.  This evidence is more important than their self-serving 
gossip.
>  
>  
>  Given what i've posted here, it seems that Kramer could have done
>  quite a bit to prevent starvation at the camp, yet he did nothing.

That's funny-I get quite the different impression.  It is easy to talk today.  Had
you been in charge at Belsen, I would be interested to see how you would have
fared.  It took weeks for the British to stabilize conditions at this camp-and this was
with the best medical assistance.  Kramer was thrown into this mess, it was misrepresented
to him-tens of thousands of seriously ill people were crammed into a camp which was only
built to accomodate a few thousands-his repeated requests for assistance from
his superiors were virtually ignored because they were also helpless to confront
the horror head on....You are expecting too much from one man who was only in 
charge of this camp for 3 months.  He was not guilty and should never have been
executed for the conditions at Belsen.  Also-a few other comments-many
of the people at this camp were afflicted with gastro-enteritis and dysentery.
This means that administration of FOOD to these individuals makes their
condition WORSE, not better.  What they needed was immediate hospitalization.
Kramer's documents speak for themselves and they vindicate him.  One final
curiosity-one improvement Kramer was actually successful in implementing was 
the construction of some new barracks for many of the seriously ill-and this was
later used against him by mendacious ex-inmates of the camp when they swore
that these barracks were actually "GAS CHAMBERS".
>  
rb>  
>  
>

>

>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 19:55:59 PST 1996
Article: 87361 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:06:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  Mr. Blackmore whines about name calling and then to a  member of this
  conference note his replies. In an actual debate, how would you feel
  toward this person? Now, I admit that the member calls Mr. Blackmore
  names also, but note that Blackmore is the one complaining about this
  in other threads.
  
    ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
    
    
  
  [snip]
  
  
  There can be no sanity and reason from the insane and irrational, as applies
  to Mr. McFee and Nizkooks in general.
    
  
  So now he takes on calling individuals Nizkooks and Mr. McFee is
  insane. Valuable arguments. Stunning in their attack on the thistory
  of the Holocaust. I have a great fear that this is all we are going to
  get. 
  
    No dummy, d.A was *there*.  You were not.  He asks you where the plaque was,
  since you claimed to know what it says.  Since you lied about that, why
  shouldn't we expect that you are lying about the plaque too?

How can I "lie" about placques which have been photographed by news
and press agencies for posterity?  Silly person.

 
  Gord is now silly and crazy.  
  
    
    d.A. continues:
    
    In Room 1 of Block 4 there was an urn. "The urn with a handful of ashes,
   collected in the Birkenau terrain, commemorates '4 million of those'
   who had perishhed there."

Yes, and these alleged four million were what--Eskimoes?  Are you so
 dense?

 
>  This seems to be to d.A.and he is a dense person.
>    
>  >  p. 19 of "Auschwitz 1940-1945  Guide-Book through the Museum"
>  >  Krajowa Agencja Wydawnicza,  1981
>  >  ISBN 83-03-01330-0.
>  >  
>  >  The same page contains:
>  >  
>  >  "4 millin persons perished in the 'Konzentrationslager
>  >  Auschwitz-Birkenau', 4 million persons from all the countries 
>  >  under Nazi occupation."
>  >  
>  >  [The reader who is at least semi-literate will have observed
>  >  that the word "Jew" is missing from this text.]
>  >  
>  >So?  What is your contention, then, that 1.5 million Jews were killed at
>  >Auschwitz and 2.5 million Gentiles?  Is that what you are now asking us 
>  >to swallow?  Lotsa luck...-rb
>  >
>  
>  He is pointing out that the word Jew is missing and that you are
>  distorting the evidence. I believe that you sense this but are unable
>  to pull yourself out of the trap you have dived into.
>  
>  >>  In fact the reader of this guide-book who is looking for a single
>  >>  location where there is mention of 4 million Jewish victims
>  >>  will be sorely disappointed.
>  >
>  >Disappointed?--rb
>  
>  Further distortion of the point being made. Not only is Mr. Blackmore
>  dishonest with the sources he uses but he is also dishonest with the
>  messages he receives here in this group.
>  
>  >>  
>  >>  In fact, the abiding impression is that the Jewish victims are
>  >>  down-played in this guide-book, as in the Museum at the time
>  >>  of my visit.
>  >
>  >Perhaps those jewish "victims" were a figment of someones vivid imagination.--rb
>  >
>  >
>  
>  This comment is not an historical one at all, but it does point to the
>  intentions of the writer.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I can and will reply briefly yout comments.  Note the names I was called by
your colleagues:

"Gordon tries to inject a note of sanity and reason."
Comment:  This is supposed to imply that I am insane and unreasonable.

" No dummy, d.A was *there*". 
Comment:  I am called a dummy.

" Since you lied about that, why
>  >>  shouldn't we expect that you are lying about the plaque too?"
Comment:  I am referred to as a double liar.

  These comments are not  historical  at all, but it does point to the
  intentions of the writers.  Now, when are you going to cut the childish 
games and name calling and seriously discuss the issues without prejudice?--rb
  
  








From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 19:56:00 PST 1996
Article: 87368 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:28:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>
rblackmore writes:
>  >  The fact is, it takes time to investigate crimes which by their very nature, were
>  >  difficult to investigate in closed camps like Auschwitz and the rest.
>  
>  	It is, of course, even harder when the suspect has the right and 
>  power to murder possible witnesses against him (as Koch did).  Moreover Koch 
>  and the others were apparently protected by Eike.  Many complaints by von 
>  Waldeck were quashed without investigation.

But  Koch hanged in the end, didn't he?--rb



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 19:56:01 PST 1996
Article: 87369 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:31:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:


>  
>  	The point is not whether "research" needs to be done but whether the 
>  information was available to you.  In fact, Segev's book was a doctoral thesis for 
>  which he had access to (and for this information) cited to material in the 
>  Budesarchiv Koblenz which contains the SS files.  While the trial of Koch might 
>  have been only a passing reference in "Soldiers of Evil" it is  clearly 
>  "authoritative" as there is no reason to doubt its accuracy.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
That the author had access to such documents I do not doubt.  I merely
question some of his interpretations.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 19:56:01 PST 1996
Article: 87375 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Real Herta Ehlert
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:42:37 GMT
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In a discussion concerning the guilt or innocence of Kramer, former
commandant of Belsen, Danny Keren referred to unsupported statements
attributed to the ex-commandant by former camp Aufseherin Herta Ehlert,
a petty thief and bully.  Ehlert swore that Kramer had said of the inmates
at Belsen:  "Let them die, why should you care?"  I responded by saying that
I did not believe her, and posted a few reasons why I didn't.  Danny, of course,
scoffed at these remarks.  The gist of my argument was that it appeared that
Ehlert, who had been arrested and charged with crimes, did what is usually
done by subordinates-cast the guilt and responsibility on to her superiors, in
this case, Kramer.  Kramer denied having uttered these words on the witness
stand.  I believe him, based upon the evidence which I researched, proving
that Kramer did everything he could to improve conditions within the camp.  Indeed,
if people like Keren and others insist on placing responsibility squarely onto the 
shoulders of Kramer, their opinions are negated by the evidence in his favor.  Besides
the documents which support Kramer's claims, we also have the fact of the children's
camp at Belsen.  The children were found to be in "fairly good health" by the British
authorities.  The reasons why?  The children were segregated from the main camp.  Why?
Because the main camp was where the epidemics had spread.  The person responsible for
keeping the children  away from the adult section was KRAMER.  If women sacrificed them-
selves in order to procure higher food rations for the children, then this is also a major factor-
but, food notwithstanding-if Kramer had placed the children into the adult compounds,
they would have perished.  Now, as to Ehlert, let us briefly examine how credible she is:

Herta Ehlert was referred to the SS for work duty in 1939,  She served at Ravensbrueck,
Lublin, and Auschwitz before being transferred to Belsen in 1945.

Now, sometime during the day or night of June 11, 1945, Ehlert was interrogated by the
British.  At her trial she contested written statements which she had originally given to her
interrogators, stating that they were not correct.  For instance:

Q:  Have you received a German translation of the statement you made on the 
     11th June, 1945,  at Celle?

A:  Yes, but it is not a correct version of what I originally said.

Where have we heard this before?    It seems as though the interrogators were,
as I previously posted, simplying interested in accumulating all the sensationalistic
statements as possible to use against the accused.  For instance, in the same 
"deposition" referred to above, it was alleged that Ehlert witnessed a staff member
"kicking" an inmate.  When questioned about this at the trial, Ehlert said:

"I never said that he was kicking her."

The British also included a statment that Ehlert had heard Kramer giving orders to
another staff member to beat the women.  When asked about this on the witness
stand, Ehlert replied:

"I do not know.  I have seen Kramer speaking to Kasainitzky,  but whether he gave
this order, I cannot say."

So, the British interrogators somehow transformed Kramer speaking to someone into
an imagined scene where he is giving orders to "beat women".

And so on and so forth.  When asked:

"How did you find the conditions when you arrived at Belsen?", she replied:

"The conditions were the worst I ever saw in a camp.  They became worse as time
went on."

Thus, her opinion is in agreement with Kramer, who had been virtually duped into 
accepting the assignment there.  Also in agreement were Pohl and Hoess, who later
toured the camp at the urgent request of Kramer.  Both of these men also indicated that
there was nothing they could do for him.

Now, we have all read much about the conditions of this camp, and it is noteworthy to
mention the date when Ehlert first arrived for duty:  February, 1945!  Therefore,
just 2 months after Kramer, and ONE month before liberation!  A period when conditions
in the camp were at their worst!

Now, as to my incessant postings that allied bombing sorties helped to contribute to the
horrifying conditions in the camp, we find confirmation in the following exchange:

Q:  Did you try to do anything yourself to help?

A:  ...I went to Unterscharfuehrer Mueller, who was in charge of ...(the)...store, and he told me
that all the train wagons were SMASHED BY BOMBING and he could not do anything about
it.  At that moment I happened to meet Kramer, told him about it and said that the death rate
was increasing, and that the prisoners could not keep alive on this thin soup.  He made the
Kommandos from the prisoners collect potatoes and mash them, and those mashed potatoes 
were mixed with the soup...."

Now, to Keren's beloved quote:

"In March I saw Dr. Horstmann.  The weather had become a bit warmer and I was rather
anxious about the open latrines, because I thought it might cause an epedemic (!), and he 
said he could not do anything about it because he had no means of disinfection and could
only give me one sack with chalk for this  purpose.  The third time I returned to the camp
I did not feel very well, because of the horrible smell, and on meeting Kramer I talked to him
about it and he said:  "Let them die; we cannot do anything about it; my hands are tied."

So these are the circumstances under which Ehlert claims Kramer uttered the words attributed
to him.  Take it for what it is worth.  If we compare this alleged statement with the written formal
plea for help Kramer sent on to his superiors, Ehlert's assertions simply do not appear credible.

If we may return briefly to her alleged "confessions and statements" again, we read the
following:

Q:  In your statement to Colonel Genn which was read over to you in German and which
you swore to as true, you said in paragraph 10, "I have heard that Ilse Forster and Frieda
Walter used to beat interness to a quite unreasonable extent."  

(Now, notice the method used by the interrogators.  He uses such terms as "I have heard"...
etc.)  And if she had heard, she would have to have heard form 2nd or 3rd hand sources. Now, for 
Ehlert's reply:

A:  It must be that the interpreter did not understand.

Indeed, perhaps it was his intention to deliberately not understand.

In a similar vein:

Q:  Did you not say to Colonel Genn that you saw him (Kramer) kicking and shaking
her, and later hit her with a stick on her head and face and all over her body quite
unmercifully?"

A:  No.

Well, it seems that Colonel Genn had quite an imagination.
Perhaps he "misinterpreted"?

Only a couple more examples ought to suffice to formally conclude this debate:

Q:  Was it not a favorite trick of the SS to make one lot of prisoners beat another?

A:  No.  They were very often FIGHTING AMONGST EACH OTHER.

Q:  When you made your statement to Colonel Genn, who questioned you?

A:  An interpreter who gave the Colonel my replies in English.  
(I would LOVE to track this person down today)

Q:  When it was read (Back to you), did you notice if anything was wrong and which
did not agree with what you had said?

A:  No.  I received the impression that it was what I had said.

Hmmm, a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum.........

Finally, and this is the one I love the best:

Q:  Do you remember saying to Colonel Genn:  "I say that Kramer was responsible for
the conditions.  Among other reasons, (Which are conveniently NEVER given) because
on ONE occasion, when I complained of the increasing death rate to Kramer, he replied,
"Let them die.  Why should you care?"

A:  Yes.

Q:  And I put it to you that you took his advice.

A:  What could one individual person like me do with so many thousands of prisoners?

The same could well be asked of Kramer................................


Source:  The Belsen Trial, pg.  227-242. 







From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 22:36:14 PST 1996
Article: 87393 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:51:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <59gbvo$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <597nnd$i02@explorer2.clark.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >And I suppose you read Hebrew?
>  
>  I neither wrote nor implied that I read Hebrew. Why do you ask? 
>  My humble linguistic skills are limited to English, Esperanto (Jew
>  language invented to enslave the goyim), Dutch, Spanish, French, 
>  German, some Portuguese, and a little Bulgarian.
>  
>>>>
Well, if you read Bulgarian, you should also have a knowledge of Russian.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 22:36:15 PST 1996
Article: 87399 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Harold Le Druillence Testifies About Belsen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:36:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <59g42n$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner 
>  in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:
>  
 He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
>  shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
>  hundreds were shot per day.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Did this witness identify by name even ONE of those allegedly shot?



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 22:36:16 PST 1996
Article: 87412 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:23:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <59gab0$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32b8eea9.80185302@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
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   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
  
  Yup, I'm not surprised what I'm seeing coming from the keyboard of
  rblackmore. Plus he splashes stuff on the identity list. I am
  disappointed in the cipher though.

Pray tell, why?
  
  
  
  In message <595qh9$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
  09:52:41 GMT writes:
  
  
What is relevant is that you lied and claimed that the slabs mentioned 4
 million Jews.

No, Gord.  you seem to be getting senile.  I posted an explanation for the misunderstanding.-rb

 

>  >[end quote]

>  >
>  >
>  >--
>  >Gord McFee
>  >I'll write no line before its time
>  >
>  
>  Mike Curtis
>  
>        Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>        Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?  
>        European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
>        Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>You're going to make that ditty popular yet!



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 22:36:17 PST 1996
Article: 87420 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:55:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <59gfmu$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <5962d9$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
>  12:07:05 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>    
>  [deleted]
>  
>  :>What has any of this to do with Irma Grese?
>  :>You are a sad little impotent man. Your impotence is starkly revealed
>  :>whenever you resort to the lowlife tactics of name calling and personal slander. 
>  :> Unfortunately for you, it is not helping your lost cause. You are losing the fight and all the 
>  :>dirt slinging in the world will not save your abysmal Holobunk stories.
>  :>You were already castigated by Mike Stein for misrepresenting this
>  :>whole thread, yet you shamefully continue to do so.  The fact is, Goeth
>  :>had come under charges by the SS, and would undoubtedly have been
>  :>executed had not the end of the war precluded the event.  In any case,
>  :>he was re-arrested and tried by the Poles, where he was sentenced to 
>  :>death and executed.  Unlike Irma Grese, Goeth deserved strict punishment
>  :>for his offenses.  Now, why do you bring this up when you are supposed to
>  :>be replying to a thread on Irma Grese?-rb
>  
>  Spare us the moral outrage, Mr. "Blackmore" and explain the following quote
>  from someone you know well.
>  

The quote you posted in an attempt to defend Keren is not relevant to this 
thread.  If you wish to post the ditty, start another thread.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 22:36:17 PST 1996
Article: 87433 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:58:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <59hq29$cji@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  I posted an emailed this one. I prefer a public response, however,
  from whoever.
  
     mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
    gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
    
    Yup, I'm not surprised what I'm seeing coming from the keyboard of
    rblackmore. Plus he splashes stuff on the identity list. I am
    disappointed in the cipher though.
  
  Pray tell, why?
    
  
  Well, where to start, Mr. Whoever. When you first showed up in this
  group as jbelling (there could have been a prior incarnation for the
  styles are approximately the same and the methods were the same) you
  had the persona of an enquiring mind. You presented a mind not totally
  made up.

Indeed, my mind is still not made up.  I have a number of theories I am
entertaining as to what may have happened, but I am fairly well convinced
that mass gassings of women and children etc., never had the official
sanction of the German Government.  --rb

 This is an aspect of some deniers introductions and personas
  to a forum or newsgroup. They play the intellectual innocent. You did
  this. Then, like a prior persona, you tried to reach various members
  via email to conduct "serious" discussions. I found that, like a
  previous persona, this action appeared to be more of a fishing
  expedition for save topics and ground. I also found that when things
  were presented to your email self you would thank the party and
  continue on in blissful ignorance. The email persona was not the
  newsgroup persona for it appeared that nothing was really learned or
  accepted. 

Well, this was also the behavior of your colleagues--and, indeed, I had nor
have any animosities toward any of you.  It is not in my nature to hate.  I
always responded politely to your emails before you and your colleagues 
began with the insults.  I believe it was Mark van Alstine and Chuck Feree
who threw down the gauntlet first.  But that shouldn't surprise you...but if
they want to dish it out, they will have to take it as well.--rb
  
  Your claims as to your intentions and preference to keep to the high
  road have been obviously not kept on this board. You are easily
  triggered and you do not seem to now this.

Yes, I am easily triggered when I am referred to as "Nazi boy" "scum-bag"
"liar" and God knows what else.--rb

 You have made claims of an
  education in the field of history and yet you do not display this
  training at all. 

Mike--I received straight A's in my history classes.  You challenge my
knowledge and training simply because I do not agree with many of your claims.-rb

You are clumsy with your sources and distort them to
  fit your own perceptions rather than let the chips fall where they
  may.

Indeed I do not Mike.  I simply try to view them as unprejudiced as possible and call
a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may.--rb

 Doubtful sources do not require twisting or distortions to be
  seen as doubtful with the proper substantiation. This substantiation
  is rarely provided in a satisfactory manner.

What you call "twisting" and "distorting" is simply use of logic and reason
when examining documents and confessions.--rb
  
  You claimed to not be an anti-Semite and yet posted to a mail group an
  anti-Semitic poem. Though I subscribe to certain lists and groups with
  which I do not agree with the concepts presented, I am not
>  hypocritical enough to join them in their presentations. This applies
>  to whatever the subject of the group is. To even consider such a
>  posting and actually setting it to the keyboard without a disclaimer
>  of some sort is suggestive of the intent and attitudes of the poster.


I will say this again:  I am not an anti-Semite.  I number many jewish people
among my acquaintances and friends.  My home is open to all people of good
will, regardless of race, creed, or color.  Them's the facts.  I know it is difficult
for you to understand, but what can I say?  You and your colleagues can twist
and turn this issue anywhich way you can, yet it will not change reality or the
facts.  I am not a hater. --rb

>  So, I am disappointed and have further lowered my estimation of your
>  character accordingly.

It doesn't take much in this atmosphere.  Look hard enough and you will
find a justification for everything.--rb

 But, sir, this is a personal estimation. I'll
>  do nothing to suggest that my estimation should be shared with others
>  for they can and will form their own impressions. Some of them are not
>  fearful in being honest when they address you concerning their
>  feeelings about you.

Nor are they polite.--rb

 This is unfortunate because the readers of the
>  group will probably have the same view as they without the prodding.

Let's just leave that to the readers of the group, shall we?--rb
>  
>  It is the holiday season so Happy Holidays.

Happy Holidays and a Peaceful, healthy, and prosperous New Year to you and
yours--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Dec 21 22:36:19 PST 1996
Article: 87440 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:19:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <59hr9r$ekv@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59hflr$k0n@explorer2.clark.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Read a few more posts.  Of course you will now prove to us that
>  >this 4 million were really Gentiles?  I am waiting...go to it, if you dare....
>  
>  Why would I want to do such a thing? I accept the generally accepted
>  view that four million is a gross overestimate of the number of Auschwitz
>  deaths, so most of them are neither Jews, Gentiles, nor Martians. I have
>  certainly never asserted that they were Gentiles. If you think I have, 
>  check out DejaNews and be disabused of your strange fantasy.
>  
>  *Your* assertion is that the Polish authorities at Auschwitz somehow
>  said or implied that the four million were Jews. Please back up *your*
>  assertion.
>  
>>>>
Who was addressing you personally on this, Mr. Power?  I did not.
Now, in reply to your comments--my assertion that the alleged Jewish dead at Auschwitz
were implied is justified.  Now, whether YOU accepted the claim that 4 million 
were gassed there or not is irrelevant.  What IS relevant is what the Polish
Government and the Auschwitz Museum claimed for decades.  And many agencies,
news bureaus, publishers, authors, as well as the common man in the street all bought
into the hoax.  Others recognized that the figures of the hoax could never be supported by
evidence, so the claim began to be lowered by holocaust historians in the west.
And it is true when you write that the 4 million were neither Jews, Martians, nor
gentiles--so thank you for admitting the Hoax-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:32 PST 1996
Article: 87493 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:34:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <59holo$cji@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32c6f728.5126942@news.inetport.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >Ken, I could never wallow in a sewer deeper than the one you crawled out
>  >of.
>  
>  
>  You already said this. I suggest that if you ant to come up with a
>  snappy retort you go out and buy a snappy retort book.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I suggest that you keep out of situations where you are
not referred to.  It is not an indication of good manners.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:33 PST 1996
Article: 87496 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:55:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <59ipgu$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gbq1$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  > >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > >  
>  > >  : That has already been addressed, though not to your liking, I am
>  > >  : sure.  Now, do you claim to read hebrew or not?  Perhaps you can answer
>  > >  : a question in a straight forward manner for once in your life. 
>  Just once.  
>  > >  : try it.--rb
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  I don't read Hebrew, and never claimed I did.  
>  > >  
>  > >  Gee, this answering questions in a "straight forward" manner is fun!  
>  > >  Your turn, Mr. Belling--why did you send the following message to 
>  > >  Harold Covington of the National Socialist White People's Party?
>  > >  
>  > 
>  > Why do you ask after you have already been given an answer?--rb
>  
>  We like to see you squirm for the worm you are? 


>>>>
Where's that crow pie , mark?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:34 PST 1996
Article: 87497 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:55:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <59ipif$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59hgcc$muo@explorer2.clark.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net writes:
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >>  
>  >>  >And I suppose you read Hebrew?
>  >>  
>  >>  I neither wrote nor implied that I read Hebrew. Why do you ask? 
>  >>  My humble linguistic skills are limited to English, Esperanto (Jew
>  >>  language invented to enslave the goyim), Dutch, Spanish, French, 
>  >>  German, some Portuguese, and a little Bulgarian.
>  >>  
>  >Well, if you read Bulgarian, you should also have a knowledge of Russian.
>  
>  Why do you keep expanding on my claims, Joe? Certainly on the basis of
>  my slight knowledge of Bulgarian, I should be able to make out a
>  few words in any extended text of a Slavic language in either the Latin 
>  or the Cyrillic alphabet, but the starting point is so weak that these
>  extensions are hardly worth mentioning. I'd be more justified to claim
>  a "knowledge" of Romanian on the basis of my Spanish and French (not to
>  mention dusty memories of high school Latin).
>  
>  And no, I still don't read Hebrew.
>  
>>>>
All rightie, then.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:35 PST 1996
Article: 87502 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:46:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <59ip03$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <59gb5h$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  > The party line seems to have been to downplay the victims as jews, and refer
>  > to them only as citizens of other countries.  It doesn't change the fact
>  that the
>  > overwhelming majority of these alleged 4 million still would have been
>  jews.--rb
>   
>  Which party is this line from?
>   
>  I haven't been invited to any parties.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
Is that a request for an invitation?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:35 PST 1996
Article: 87514 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:58:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <59ipn6$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gbnk$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   fresh@scscomm.com (Andrew Mathis) writes:
>  > 
>  > snip
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > How many times in history was the talmud ordered confiscated and
>  > burned by authorities throughout the world and why would they do that?
>  
>  How many priests did the Nazi murder and why did they do _that?_ 

As far as I know, none.  Now, would you mind answering my question?--rb
>  




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:36 PST 1996
Article: 87523 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!metro.atlanta.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 22 Dec 1996 08:35:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <59irs2$eq4@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32BC89A9.118D@nbnet.nb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad43-144.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Keith Morrison  writes:
>  Daniel Keren wrote:
>  
>  > # Maybe we need a new newsgroup for our little Nazi-wannabes:
>  > # alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female.nazi.ss....
>  > 
>  > I think there's a group photo of some of the SS-women in
>  > http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>  > 
>  > It's called SS-Women.jpg or something like that. I scanned
>  > it from "The Belsen Trial".
>  
>  There's a screen capture at 
>  http://www.dmmw.com/lonewolf/camps.html#3
>  of these beuties.
>  
>  --
>  Keith Morrison
>  lonewolf@nbnet.nb.ca
>  http://www.dmmw.com/lonewolf/keithm.html
>  
>>>>
Plebian.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:37 PST 1996
Article: 87524 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 22 Dec 1996 09:58:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <59j0oq$ham@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gcth$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>

>>>>
You showed a psychologist?  Was it on one of your weekly visits?  You really
should think about changing it to twice a week.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:37 PST 1996
Article: 87526 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:14:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <59hnff$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32c8f8a3.5506371@news.inetport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd92-133.compuserve.com
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
rblackmore wrote:

>  >  We have only Kramer and
>  >Ehlert's word on this matter, and Ehlert was an unprincincipled scoundrel,
>  >the perfect witness for the likes of Danny Keren and his motives for posting
>  >tripe.
>  
>  You are correct in that she was not angel. We also have  Sington,
>  Hoessler, Kein, Berney, Le Druillenec, Bimko, and many others to
>  consider. Ehlert's word was not the only word used against Kramer.
>  This appears to be the method you are trying to use here in your
>  denial of Kramer's guilt over two charges. This is a typical denier
>  method. Distort the big picture by shrinking it down to a distorted
>  small one.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I shall refer the matter to the readers:  I have reposted much of the original
Kramer threads, as well as the Ehlert dialogues, beginning with "Let her lie,
why do you care?"--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:38 PST 1996
Article: 87530 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.ime.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 05:31:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <59fsmv$pnk@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>  The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
>  that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
>  Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
>  Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
>  worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
>  I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
>  other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
>  increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
>  should you care?".
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Unconcerned that this business was debunked ages ago, Danny keeps
reposting this distortion in the hopes of converting a new disciple here
and there.  The fact is, Herta Ehlert was a liar and a petty thief.  Ehlert
was under charges herself for mistreating prisoners, and who better to 
shift the blame on than the hapless commandant, Kramer.  It goes without
saying that Kramer denied that this conversation ever took place.  After a
rigorous investigation of Kramer's testimony and Ehlert's, an unbiased person
can only conclude that Ehlert was indeed a liar.  We have only Kramer and
Ehlert's word on this matter, and Ehlert was an unprincincipled scoundrel,
the perfect witness for the likes of Danny Keren and his motives for posting
tripe.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:39 PST 1996
Article: 87549 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:58:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <59g8sj$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59bt18$1ogm$8@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <597aq9$8dd$11@uhura.phoenix.net> - Doc Tavish
>  <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net>Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:31:47 -0600 writes:
>  :>
>  :>Gord McFee wrote:
>  :>> 
>  :>> In message <19961216123900.HAA09018@ladder01.news.aol.com> - tutu101@aol.com
>  :>> (Tutu101)16 Dec 1996 12:39:59 GMT writes:
>  :>> :>
>  :>> :>It is obvious you blew it.
>  :>> 
>  :>> You seem to use this appraoch a lot.  First, you show up, acting as if you
>  :>> don't know how to quote properly.  Then, after a time, you "learn" how to
>  :>> quote.  Then, you bugger off and re-appear under yet another name.  How many
>  :>> is that now?
>  :>> 
>  :>> --
>  :>> Gord McFee
>  :>> I'll write no line before its time
>  :>
>  :>I will answer for my compatriot- he must be a dumb nazi who jest can't
>  :>be lerned!
>  
>  Obviously your spineless jelly fish "friend" can't answer for himself now that
>  he is posting as "Blackmore" again.  Piss off "Doc".
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
I am more than capable of answering for myself, Gord.  Don't mess with
Doc!--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:40 PST 1996
Article: 87550 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heinrich Lohse Was Dead and Living in Germany?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:01:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <59g918$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <5963ds$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
>  12:24:28 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  
>  :>Silly man.
>  
>  Really?  Do you know the sill man who wrote this?


>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Yes, you did.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:40 PST 1996
Article: 87551 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Good Old Days,2.  Who killed the cop?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:00:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <59g8vk$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <5979mq$tti$13@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <32b57646.427151@news.spry.com> - klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis)Mon,
>  16 Dec 1996 16:18:58 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>On 16 Dec 1996 13:18:03 GMT, tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) wrote:
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>>And what if acorns were marshmallows?
>  :>
>  :>Fat chipmunks?
>  
>  And what if acorns were *not* marshmallows?  :-)
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Why, they'd be acorns.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:41 PST 1996
Article: 87552 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:05:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <59g97t$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # What she was, was a 21 year old girl who was murdered on
>  # the basis of false testimony, 
>  
>  She testified about the selections to the gas chambers, and
>  her participation in these selections.
>  
>  But you "forgot" to include this in the excerpts you took from
>  her testimony... right?
>  
>  You should see a doctor about that memory problem.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Her testimony clearly says that she never saw gas chambers and it
was only based upon rumors.  She didn't gas anyone.  You should see
a rabbi about this lying problem you seem to have.  You need spiritual
guidance.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:42 PST 1996
Article: 87553 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon they forget. . .(was: Clearing the air about Posen)
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:03:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <59g94f$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <595tqc$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
>  10:48:44 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  
>  :>>  "I seem to smell a peculiar and a fishlike smell."
>  :>>  
>  
>  :>Have you considered changing your diet?
>  
>  I think the smell involves you, Mr. "Blackmore".


>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
As usual, you're wrong.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:42 PST 1996
Article: 87555 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:57:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 98
Message-ID: <59g8pj$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <59c6ks$ep9@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
 Actually, Doc, not all prisoners were tattooed, even at Auschwitz. Some of 
 those destined for transit to another camp from Auschwitz were often held 
 for a while and then shipped on. 
  
  Mr. Belling continues with his disinngenuous "embellingments." Would Mr.
  Belling care to explain why, up until around November 1944, records show
  approximately a million Jews being sent to Auschwitz but never leaving?
  Would Mr. Belling care to back up his explination with the historical
>  evidence? 

How do you definitely know that they never left, mark?  How do you know for
a fact that this number entered the camp?  Train schedules?  Sorry, that is not
enough to go on...so, what proof do you have?
  
   Consequently, there was no need to tattoo.  
  
  Mr. Belling here again attempts to sidestep the glaring fact that the Jews
  sent to Auschwitz and selected for "special treatment" were _not_
  registered into the camp, as they were slated to soon be murdered in the
  gas chambers at Auschwitz.* As they were not registered, they did not
  recieve tatoos.

Yes, this is your interpretation. But based upon what EVIDENCE, Mark?
As I mentioned, I have personally met ex-inmates from Auschwitz and they
did NOT have a tattoo.  I had a Jewish mechanic who was from Poland, and
he DID have a tattoo.  Now, this is strange, don't you think--as it is the Polish Jews
who are claimed to have been all but exterminated--and they would have been
among the first sent to the camp--and here is a man--a Jewish man--with a tattoo
>from  Auschwitz--and he is still alive and well.  Note that he would have been sent
to Auschwitz well before the Hungarian jews.
  
  * "Beginning in July 1942, Jewish transports went through selection upon
  arrival. The young, healthy, and able-bodied men and women were selected
  for labor. The remaining deportees, above all children, mothers with small
  children, and pregnant women, were consigned to death in the gas chambers
  without any registration." (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.414.)

Well, this is an accusation.  Where is the proof?
 
 Curiously, at some point during the course of the war, and this would have
   to be checked in Danuta Czech's book, the tattooing of prisoners stopped 
   altogether at Auschwitz.  
  
  Here's some things that Czech (_Auschwitz Cronicles_, pp.563-564) has to
  say on this: 
  
  

snip
(Note:  I snipped the quote, not out of disrespect, but because it did not answer
my question.  therefore, its introduction was irrelevant.  Do you have the quote where
Czech indicates at what point the tattooing of inmates ceased?."--rb
  
  
  
  As to the the complete cessation of registering (and hence tatooing) of
  prisoners at "some point during the course of the war," one need only
  point out that as late as January 4, 1945, only two weeks prior to the
 _evacuation_ of Auschwitz, prisoners recieved registration numbers (cf.
  Ibid. p.773.). This was _after_ the cessation of homicidal gassings at
  Auschwitz.*
  
  *"The last victims to undergo selection was a transport from
  Theresienstadt, which arrived on October 30,1944. The next transport, from
  Sered, which arrived on November 3, 1944, was registered in the camp
  register in its entirety." (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.174.) The note to the
  above is as follows: "73. According to H.G. Adler, gassings in Auscwhitz
  were discontinued on November 2, 1944; Adler, _Thereseinstadt 1941-1945_
  (Tu"bingen, 1955), p.694." (Ibid. p.181.)
  
>  Given the above, how does Mr. Belling explain, for example, that during
>  Aktion Ho"sd some 10 percent (~44,000) of the approximately 438,000
>  arriving Jews from Hungary were registered while the the remaining 90
>  percent (~394,000) were _not_ registered and were never heard from again? 


There are literally a hundred books dealing with the fate of the Hungarian Jews
sent to Auschwitz.  Many of them disagree in many points.  If there is so much
disagreement among the researchers, how can you expect people to take
your statement as fact?--rb
>  
>  > I have personally spoken to ex-inmates of Auschwitz, some of who had a
>  tattoo, 
>  > and others who didn't. There need be nothing sinister read into the fact that 
>  > some inmates were tattooed and  others were not. The members of the SS were 
>  > also tattooed under their arm.
>  
>  Given that Mr. Belling is a proven (and mendacious) liar, I would ask of
>  him a signed and notorized deposition from these "ex-inmates of Auschwitz"
>  he claims to have talked to that confirm his claims. Until then, Mr.
>  Belling's, "claims" cannot be taken seriously. 

Well, then, do not take them seriously.  The fact is what I wrote is the truth.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:43 PST 1996
Article: 87562 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:56:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>

>  [end quote]
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Gordon's Holiday Hit parade has only one selection.  I think YOU
should be writing to Mr. Covington, Gord.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:44 PST 1996
Article: 87563 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:55:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <32b5d564.69023800@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:
>  
>  
>  > I imagine it's much the very same.  Since the original Talmud
>  > authorizes the violation of young gentile children I'd say it's
>  > probably considered kosher.
>  
>  Liar.
>   
>  Again, here is what YOU think and what REALITY IS:
>   
>   5. "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."-
>   -Aboda Sarah 37a.
>  
>  Apparently a deliberate misquote. The observation is a technical, physiological
>  one,  regarding the impurities related to genital "flows" as outlined in
>  Leviticus chapter 15. The Talmudic source argues that since the tearing of the
>  hymen at that age would be permanent (as distinct from a younger girl whose
>  hymen the rabbis believed would grow back), she is considered to have reached a
>  state of physical development that her discharges would be included under the
>  category of impure flows according to the Biblical purity laws. (The same rule,
>  by the way, would apply to a Jewish girl). This is of course not a permission to
>  "violate" the girl, merely a legal definition of her age.
>  
>   
>  DEAL WITH IT, you liar.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
Do you regard the menstral flow as "impure", in the same sense as
other bodily funcitions dealing with elimination?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:45 PST 1996
Article: 87564 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:04:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >  What is the tosephta and how does it differ from the Talmud?-rb
>  
>  	I suggest that you add to your extensive library:
>  
>  	"The Talmud: A Reference Guide" by Adin Steinsaltz.  It runs about 
>  $25,00 in paperback. : "The Tosafot were the collective creation of Rashi's 
>  disciples and their students (including many of his own descendants), and they 
>  are a kind of summary of the style of study and inquiry in the yeshivot of France 
>  and Germany in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries.  They began as additions to 
>  and notes on Rashi's [often cryptic] commentary; they were subsequently 
>  expanded and became a profound and independent interpretation of the 
>  Gemara itself, indeed, in some cases one can view them as an extension of the 
>  Talmudic discussion."  page 52
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
Well, then, does this mean that they are generally considered as a part of the
Talmud?  And thank you for illuminating the subject.  I will certainly look for this
book.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:45 PST 1996
Article: 87565 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:02:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  
>  The above is interesting in light of the fact that even though the food
>  situation in Mu"nster (which was cut-off by the Allied [i.e. U.S.]
>  advance) appeared not to be critical and people weren't starving to death,
>  supplies were freely distributed from military stores. Yet at
>  Bergen-Belsen, as we have seen, desperately needed rations were denied by
>  Kramer to the thousands of prisoners ostensibly held in "protective
>  custody" there. Prisoners who were starving, or had already starved, to
>  death even though the nearby Panzergrenadier School held enough stores to
>  help allieviate their condition (cf. Reitlinger, _SS: alibi of a nation_,
>  p.425.)  
>  
>  And what was Kremer's excuse? That he had no authority to requistion
>  supoplies from the Panzergrenadier School and thereofre didn't even bother
>  to _ask_ if food could be spared to feed the starving proisoners! But then
>  Kramer _also_ had  said in regard to his starving charges: "let them die,
>  why should you care?"
>  
>  Mark

Well, I hate to jump in like this but.....there certainly was a serious food shortage through-
out Germany.  Supplies had to be transported many miles to different locations.  people in
prisons are usually unaccustomed to receiving gourmet faire.  Fact is, anyone familiar with
the chain of command in the German Armed Forces will know that it was impossible for
Kramer to requisistion more food than he was alloted for, as food also needed to be sent
to other cities.  For a detailed explanation of this mess, look for my repost of the kramer trial.
Hope it answers your questions, Doc.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:46 PST 1996
Article: 87566 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:56:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>    In message <19961216130700.IAA09378@ladder01.news.aol.com> - tutu101@aol.com
>    (Tutu101)16 Dec 1996 13:08:11 GMT writes:
>    :>
>    :>Why must you always play the fool.  I dare say my grasp of the German
>    :>language is far better than yours--who understands zilch...and don't worry
>   :>about the ellipses-they weren't significant.  Oh?  You prefer to judge for
>    :>yourself?  well, buy the book then.  Maybe you will learn something.  The
>    :>text clearly shows, whether in german or English or esperanto-that it was
>    :>the French who were guilty of first utilizing gas during the first world
>    :>war.  you lose again. but what else is new?
>   
>   
>   Schoen, dass Ihr Deutsch so beeindrueckend ist!

It is as good as yours is, I can assure you.
>   
>   So koennen wir die Diskussionen auf Deutsch 
>   weiterfuehren und dadurch die Stolpersteine
>   beseitigen, die durch falsche Uebersetzungen
>   enstehen koennen.

Yes, well, let's discuss translations.  Shall we start with Posen?
>   
>   Wie aergerlich und irrefuehrend solche
>   Hindernisse sein koennen, haben die
>   ,,Diskussionen'' zum Thema ,,Ausrottung
>   des juedischen Volkes'' deutlich gemacht.

Yes, and undoubtedly shall remain so.  You are aware of my position
on this.
>   
>   Ich freue mich auf viele hilfreiche
>   und informierte Diskussionen.

Und ich freue mich auch----weiterfuehren!




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:47 PST 1996
Article: 87568 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies and libels in the same putrid breath .... Re: Questions rblackmore@juno.com (jbelling@sprynet.net) refuses to answer...Gandhi is an imbecile.Full HARDCORE pleasure!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:09:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <32B6A27F.B6A@rio.com> - Chuck Ferree Tue, 17 Dec
>  1996 13:39:11 +0000 writes:
>  :>
>  :>Chuck Ferree writes:
>  :>
>  :>Hey, Gord, a reliable source, who must remain unnamed at the moment, 
>  :>whispered to me that, blackmore had been busted for child molestation,
>  :>
>  :>His own family too. Could just be a rumor, but believable. His own 
>  :>teenie-bopper niece. That's "hitting" pretty close to home. Course 
>  :>could just be a rumor. My CIA pal, is a real spook, but then aren't 
>  :>they all.
>  
>  My heavens, Chuck, I hope your source is wrong.  Why, if it's true, Blackmore,
>  or Belling, or Tutu, or whatever the hell he is calling himself lately will
>  end up in the slammer as Big Bubba's special midnight snack and we won't have
>  the sucker to boot around any more in alt.revisionism.
>  
>  BTW, where the hell is Baron?
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Where you and gay Feree ought to be......


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:48 PST 1996
Article: 87569 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A simple challenge
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:06:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   wf3h@enter.net writes:
>  On Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:55:57 -0600, Doc Tavish
>  <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> wrote:
>  
>  >Oh errant one, how do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that many of
>  >those pictures that Nizkor has could not have been taken by the
>  >Communists (Jewish ones at that) of their Holocaust on gentiles during
>  >their blood thirsty campaigns against many millions more gentiles.
>  
>  well, it sounds like the true nazi bigot has come out from under the
>  rock. wonder what he thinks about the camps liberated by the
>  allies...is EVERYBODY a communist? mebbe he's incestuously related to
>  joe mccarthy
>  
>>>>
It is a fact that many films and photos from the period originated in the Soviet Union.
This doesn't make Doc tavish a Nazi anymore than it makes you a Communist sympathizer.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:48 PST 1996
Article: 87570 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belling sees trap, dives in
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:08:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Yawn.  It's getting old, Gord.  It really is.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:49 PST 1996
Article: 87571 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:17:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 17 Dec 1996 09:38:16 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >If I regarded the recording as authentic, I would have said so
>  >by now.  I merely comment that the remarks are really insignificant
>  >and do not lend support to your claims that Jews were being gassed.
>  
>  Actually, it is your remarks that are increasingly insignificant and do not
>  lend support to your claims you are not a lowlife, scumbag, nazi apologist. 
>  
>  OTOH, your remarks do lend support to my assertion that you are merely an
>  anti-semitic bigot hiding as a holocaust denier.
>  
>>>>
Go on deluding yourself.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:50 PST 1996
Article: 87572 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:17:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree writes for "up front" the lying, drunk, person who denies 
>  the Holocaust, and finds things like this post to prove his point. 
>  Which of course does no such thing. 
>  
>  Wonder how many different names giwer uses and why he chooses to write 
>  under so many aliases. Egad, the poor soul must spend lots of booze 
>  money on various on-line services. Well, we all know from whence it 
>  cometh.
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  
>  Up front wrote:
>  > 
>  > On 13 Dec 1996 06:33:55 GMT, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard
>  > Schultz) wrote:
>  > 
>  > >Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@get.net) wrote:
>  > 
>  >
>  > Subject: Caveman tells a story
>  > Message-ID: <960930151522.12963@mtigwc02
>  > X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
>  > Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 15:11:51 +0000
>  >
>  
>  And the really strange thing is that he probably believes this will 
>  change minds or maybe influence "lurkers" who are much brighter than 
>  the old sot thinks.
>  
>>>>
Chuck, go back to your wine glass.  Maybe you will come up with something
original.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:50 PST 1996
Article: 87573 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:15:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <59c9dl$uv2$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>  McFee) wrote:
>  
>  > In message  -
>  > gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi)Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:00:06 -0800
>  > writes:
>  > :>
>  > :>In article <19961218211800.QAA03240@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tutu101@aol.com
>  > :>(Tutu101) wrote:
>  > :>
>  > :>> Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
>  > :>> you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
>  > :>> as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
>  > :>> lamb,
>  > :>
>  > :>Are you admitting (again) that you are in fact the Troll-Joseph Bellinger ?
>  > :>
>  > :>[posted/emailed]
>  > 
>  > He must be, because the e-mail sent to me, to which he is alluding, was sent
>  > by rblackmore!
>  
>  Then if this is indeed the case, recent statements that troll-Joseph
>  Bellinger has made under the guise of tutu101 have revealed him to be,
>  without a doubt, an anti-semite and a nazi apologist (not that there was
>  much doubt in the first place.)
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Only in your sad and tortured mind, Raj.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:51 PST 1996
Article: 87585 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:45:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Message-ID: <59g83s$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  Doc Tavish <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > Mike do you now have a pair of tin snips personalized for tutu too?
>  
>  "Too" implies also. However, tutu101 and rblackmore and jbelling 
>  are one and the same. I do not think I own a pair of tin snips.
>  
>  >Don't mess with our tutu (Rockin' Sidney). Nizkook still under
>  >construction?
>  
>  Always adding documentation.
>  
>  > I'd bet you are having to upgrade your storage devices to
>  >keep track of all of us wascally ol' nazis. :-)
>  
>  Actually there is a lot more important stuff going on than just 
>  keeping track of ignorant folks who consider the Nazis to be the
>  boon of mankind. To record _you_ takes a entry on a keyboard. Heck,
>  they are even archiving me! 
>  
>  You do not see me complaining.
>  
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Ah, but they are archiving you as one of the "good guys".


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:52 PST 1996
Article: 87591 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:33:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck writes for blackmore:
>  
>  Hey turkey, how come you have the huevoes to ask about someone having 
>  to prove anything? You are the expert what says the total number of 
>  deaths at Auschwitz was listed in "the death book" as 70,000. You told 
>  us you would prove this figure, but have never done so. Now who is the 
>  liar, bluffer, and guy with no proof? You gotta big mouth for such a 
>  stupid shit. Further more, pal...you ain't seen nothing yet.
>  
>  
>  karlpov@explorer2.clark.net wrote:
>  > 
>  > rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  > 
>  > >No need for all this debate,.  The figure of 4 million was given, but Polish
>  > >sources strictly broke down the figures of the alleged dead--and the Jews
>  > >won by a long shot.
>  > 
>  > You've posted this again and again, Joe, but somehow you've never
>  > been able to back it up. Why is that?
>  
>>>>
Chuckles---the figure of 70,000 is already proven.  They have the death book registers, silly
man.  Now, let us see you post the facts that over a million or more people were killed
at Auschwitz.  My work is done.  Yours is beginning.  Your mission, should you choose
to accept it--is provide proof of your irrational claims.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:53 PST 1996
Article: 87592 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:26:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <32b8eea9.80185302@news.zilker.net> - mike@aimetering.com (Mike
>  Curtis) writes:
>  :>
>  :>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>  :>
>  :>Yup, I'm not surprised what I'm seeing coming from the keyboard of
>  :>rblackmore. Plus he splashes stuff on the identity list. I am
>  :>disappointed in the cipher though.
>  
>  And yet whines that he would be the paragon of civilized debate if only his
>  evil opponents would permit it.  I'll bet he never thought his little
>  love-letter to Winston and the boys would see the light of day, did he?

Oh, now it's a "love letter".  Soon we'll be exchanging vows of marriage in
Hawaii, as your brain continues to disintegrate.--rb
>  
>  Yes folks, below you have the wit and wisdom of
>  Blackmore/Belling/Bellinger/tutu.  






>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>Rather, in between the lines "tutu and Gord McFee" one can see
the wit of Mr. McFee.



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:53 PST 1996
Article: 87593 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:27:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 18 Dec 1996 11:36:48 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >>  On 17 Dec 1996 09:54:48 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>  >>   "Thomas Stedham"  writes:
>  
>  >>  >>  My questions are simple: a) was/is there a plaque at Auschwitz? b) has it
>  >>  >>  been changed to reflect a lower bodycount? c) if so, why?
>  
>  >>  >There were 19 such slabs at Auschwitz all repeating the same lies
>  >>  >in different languages.  Each and every slab has now been etched
>  >>  >out.--rb
>   
>  >>  And not one of them said 'Jews.'
>  >>  
>  >>  Amazing!
>  
>  >It didn't have to say "Jews".  That was clearly implicit.  Stop playing dumb and dumber.-rb
>  
>  I leave the dumb and dumber to you, Mr. Bellinger.
>  
>  And, clearly, if you had any understanding of what you speak,
>  you'd know it was _not_ implicit. 
>  
>  But, what can we expect from  lying, lowlife, scumbag nazi
>  apologist who thinks a server message of 'You have no permission
>  to talk' is the result of some conspiracy to shut him up. 
>  
>  Or, who repeats a rasict jingle but who doesn't really mean it
>  because he didn't write it?
>  
>  Mr. Bellinger, your credibility is in the same sewer as your
>  honesty and integrity. Go wallow in it somemore.
>  
>  
>>>>
Ken, I could never wallow in a sewer deeper than the one you crawled out
of.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:54 PST 1996
Article: 87594 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:27:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 10
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>

>  
>  Mr. Bellinger, your credibility is in the same sewer as your
>  honesty and integrity. Go wallow in it somemore.
>  
>  
>>>>
Ken, I could never wallow in a sewer deeper than the one you crawled out
of.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 10:06:55 PST 1996
Article: 87595 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 09:31:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >No need for all this debate,.  The figure of 4 million was given, but Polish
>  >sources strictly broke down the figures of the alleged dead--and the Jews
>  >won by a long shot.
>  
>  You've posted this again and again, Joe, but somehow you've never
>  been able to back it up. Why is that?
>  
>>>>
Read a few more posts.  Of course you will now prove to us that
this 4 million were really Gentiles?  I am waiting...go to it, if you dare....
Since you are so clever, give US the figures...what do you say?  Are
you up for the challenge?  Wouldn't you like to dish out the crow pie
that Mark Van Alstine failed to deliver?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 12:11:05 PST 1996
Article: 87606 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 11:44:37 GMT
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  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <598kj5$bto@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
    mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
   In article <5961lv$sof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
   
    Yes--these womwn were undoubtedly suffering from dysentery and had been
    brought to the sauna or disinfection and treatment building.  
   
   Er, no. If Mr. Belling weren't such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, he
   would have the honesty to acknowledge that these "Moslem" women, according
  to Kremer, were murdered with poison gas in one of the bunkers. (cf.
   Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p.215fn.) 

".....lying scumbag Nazi apologist....."--rb
  
   Furthermore, Mr. Belling's abject ignorance of the delousiung and
   disinfestation installations at Auschwitz II-Birkenau manifests itself for
   all to see. There were two Zyklon B disinfestation chambers (BW 5a and 5b)
  in BI; there was a disenfestation installation in BIIe (the "Gypsy Camp");
  and there was the disenfestation autoclaves and ovens of BW 32 (the
  "Sauna"). (Pressac, _Technique_, pp.53,63,65.) 
  
   Unfortunately for Mr. Belling _none_ of these disinfestation installations
   _existed_ on September 5, 1942 -the date these "Moslem" women were
   murdered in Birkenau! (cf. Ibid.) 
 
 You have no proof these women were murdered.  
  
  On the contrary! Kremer, an eyewitness, confirmed that these women were
  murdered. His testimony was admitted in a court of law as evidence. That,
  Mr. Belling, is legal "proof."

No.  he does not confirm this, Mark.  At least NOT in his diary, which is more 
important than his statements at the Polish inquisition and a later threat to 
reimprison him in Germany.  You cannot make that argument stick due to the
circumstances, otherwise, you may just as well begin admitting that Jewish
confessions to ritual murder were true.--rb
  
   What seems logical is that some sort
   of delousing and cleaning facility was set up on a temporary basis to treat 
   these unfortunates.--rb
  
  Mr. Belling, your "logic" has proven in the past to be quite twisted.

Oh?  By whom?  When?  Where?  Not by you.--rb

  Rather than offer unfounded speculation, perhaps you would care to offer
  _evidence_ that points out exactly where any such facillities existed at
  Birkenau circa September 1942? 
  
  No? Thought not.

If the installations were temporary, then there would be no proof, Mark.
Where is your evidence that there were gas chambers there?  No "eyewitness
testimonies" or "confessions" allowed.--rb
  
     They thought they were going to be killed, according to the pervasive 
     rumours throughout the camp.
    
    Indeed. If Mr. Belling weren't such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, he
     would have the honesty to acknowledge that Kremer stated:
     
     "...I could deduce from the behavior of these women that they realized
     what was awaiting them. They begged the SS men to be allowwed to live,
     they wept, but all of them were driven into the gas chamber and
     gassed...." (Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p.215fn.) 
   
   This does NOT come from his diary, but from his Soviet-Polish Show trial, . 
  therefore, I reject this statement as you reject the statements of Jews who 
   confessed to committing ritual murder.--rb
  
  Mr. Belling, when, exactly, did I "reject the statements of Jews who 
>  confessed to committing ritual murder?" And if I did (or did not) what
>  where my stated reasons? Please cite any and all such posts made by me or
>  retract your statement. 

Then I ask you now for an opinion on the subject.-But first, let me guess--you
will say that the ritual murder allegations were terrible lies and calumnies and
that the Jews were all tortured and framed into giving false confessions.  And
I will ask you for proof, and tell you that I believe there is enough evidence to
warrant the belief that the gas chamber allegations against the germans are
likewise calumnies.--rb
  
  Irregardless, Mr. Belling, your "reasoning" is a text-book example of the
  fallacy of "Guilt by Association." Simply beacuse, for example, if it can
  be show that the confessions of Jews to committimg ritual murder were
>  false and/or coerced does _not_ mean that the testimony of Kremer, in
>  regard to his diary, while on trial in Poland is likewise false and/or
>  coerced. 

Likewise, if the confessions of kremer were true, then it does not mean that
the Jewish confessions were coerced. Watch it!  You are treading on egg shells.--rb
>  
>  Mr. Belling, if you are claiming, as you seem to be, that Kremer was
>  tortured into giving a scripted testimony by the Poles (a serious
>  accusation, btw) I would suggest you had better back up such allegations
>  with facts. That is, of course, if you wish to be taken seriously. 

And I would ask you to demonstrate with facts that all ritual murder testimonies
and confessions were ALL induced by the use of torture.  I am saying that the
probability that torture was used on kremer by the Poles is VERY high.  And, yes,
it IS a serious charge--as were the charges against him.  The convergence of 
evidence shows that the torture of German prisoners was routinely practiced
by all of the allies.  Like it or not--your wishing it to have been otherwise will
not save you.--rb
>  
>  Of course, you will not- as you _cannot_ -do this, which simply evidences
>  that you are nothing more than a lying scumbag Nazi apologist. 
>  
>  And a poor one at that.

So you say.--rb
>  
>  >   They were undoubtedly covered in excrement through no fault of their own, 
>  >   therefore, Kremer uses the term "Anus Mundi".  
>  >   
>  >   Er, no. If Mr. Belling weren't such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, he
>  >   would have the honesty to acknowledge that Kremer stated:
>  >   
>  >   "...Being and anatomist I had seen many horrors, had to do with corpses,
>  >   but what I saw then was not to be compared with anything seen ever before.
>  >   It was under the influence of these impressions that I noted in my diary,
>  >   under the date of September 5, 1942: 'The most horrible of all horrors.
>  >   _Hauptsturmfu"hrer_ Thilo - was right saying today to me that we were
>  >   located in the '_anus mundi_'. I had used this expression because I could
>  >   not imagine anything more sickening and more horrible." (Ibid.) 
>  > 
>  > Yes.... 
>  
>  Er, "yes" _what_, Mr. Belling? Yes, Kremer was horrified at the murder of
>  these women? Indeed so then. 

No--he was horrified at their CONDITION---Auschwitz was known to be a breeding
ground for all sorts of microscopic infections which are not normally seen in our
environment, except possibly in AIDS patients.  Diarrahea was a common symptom
of these unfortunates people.  Who can imagine what other festering ailments they
were troubled with.  This was the horror.  It was unlike anything he had ever seen 
before outside of the foul muck racked Auschwitz environment.--rb
>  
>  >I believe the reference refers to the ill and the dying and their 
>  > deplorable physical condition due to their illnesses.--rb
>  
>  No, Mr. Belling, you quite wrong in your _belief_.  Taking into
>  consideration Kremer's testimony that expanded in this entry particular in
>  his diary, it self-evident that he was horrified at the _murder_ of these
>  women. 


The testimony is a pack of lies invented to please his tormentors, as the Jews
lied about allegations of ritual murder.--rb
>  
>  >    Also, I believe the exact quote should be:" They don;'t call Auschwitz 
>  >    the camp of annihilation for nothing." Typhus and dysentery consumes.  
>  >    They are wasting diseases.
>  >   
>  >   Er, no. The passage from Kremer's diary in _KL Auschwitz_ (p.214) reads as
>  >   follows:
>  >   
>  >   
>  >   
>  >   September 2,    Was present for first time at special action [49] at 
>  >   1942.           3 a.m. In comparison with it Dante's Inferno seems
>  >                   to be almost a comedy.[50] Auschwitz is justly called
>  >                   an extermination camp!
>  > 
>  >   
>  >   
>  > Well, he did not write this in English.  What is the original German?--rb
>  
>  Why don't _you_ go find out, Mr. Belling?  It is, after all, _you_ who are
>  challenging this passgage! After all, do you not have many thousands of
>  books in your "library?" Surely, such a "multi-lingual" "revisionist
>  scholar" as yourself would have the Kremer's diary in German, yes? 

No--It is YOU who is quoting an English translation of this passage as if it is
gospel truth.  Where is the original German text?--I cannnot help it if you are 
envious of my abilities to converse in other languages.--rb
>  
>  >   Footnote 50 leaves no doubt that Kramer was refering to homicidal gassings
>  >   when calling Auschwitz an extermination camp and _not_, as the lying
>  >   scumbag Nazi apologist Mr. Belling fallaciously suggests, "typhus and
>  >   dysentery." To whit: 

"Lying scumbag Nazi apologist" isn't going to help you here, Mark. people expect
to hear MORE in the line of evidence from you and less in the line of insults.  it is
getting old.-and all too predictable.--rb
>  >   
>  >   "50 Kremer was one of the defendants at the trial of the Auschwitz camp
>  >   garrison. The trial took place at the sittings of the Supreme National
>  >   Tribunal in Cracow in the time from November 24 till December 22, 1947.


Yes, the "Supreme National Tribunal of Poland"....wasn't this the same sort
of Tribunal which over and over again convicted the Jews of committing horrifying
ritual murders?--rb

>  >   During the interrogatory Kremer had been repeatedly questioned.

Yes, I'll bet he was.  I wonder how he was beaten, threatened, and tortured as well.--rb
 It was
>  >   then that he proffered detailed information on the subject of the meaning
>  >   of some of the entries in his diary. Excerpts from his explinations are
>  >   quoted in this publication under the respective dates. In the official
>  >   record of the interrogatory of August 18, 1947, Cracow, Kramer stated as
>  >   fallows: 'On September 2, 1942 at 3 a.m. I was already assigned to take
>  >   part in the action of gassing people. These mass murders took place in
>  >   small cottages situated outside the Birkenau camp in a wood. These
>  >   cottages were called 'bunkers' (_Bunker) in the SS men's slang. All SS
>  >   surgeons, on duty in the camp, took turns to participate in the gassings,
>  >   which were called '_Sonderaktion_' (special action - Editor's note). My
>  >   part as surgeon at the gassing consisted in remaining in readiness near
>  >   the bunker. I was brought there in a car. I sat in front with the driver
>  >   and an SS hospital orderly (SDG) sat in the back of the car with an oxygen
>  >   apparatus to revive SS men employed at gassing, in case any of them should
>  >   succumb to the poisonous fumes.

Oh?  How is this, seeing they were all required to wear gas masks?  (See the testimony
of SS Chief of Disinfection Artur Breitweiser, who was NEVER convicted of any crimes.)-
This order to wear gas masks with special filters began from the first days of administration
of Zyklon B in the camp as a disinfestation method.--rb

 When the transport with people, who were
>  >   destined for gassing, arrived at the railway ramp, the SS officers
>  >   selected from among the persons fit to work and the rest - old people, all
>  >   children, women with children in arms and other persons not deemed fit to
>  >   work - were loaded upon lorries and driven to the gas-chambers. I used to
>  >   follow behind the transport till we reached the bunker. These people were
>  >   first driven to barracks where the victims undressed and then went nked to
>  >   the gas-chambers. Very often no incidents occurred, as the SS men kept
>  >   people quiet, maintaining that they were to bathe and be deloused. After
>  >   driving all of them into the gas-chamber the door was closed and an SS man
>  >   in a gas-mask threw the contents of a Cyclon tin through the opening in
>  >   the side wall. SHouting and screaming of the victims could be heard
>  >   through that opening and it was clear that they fought for their loves
>  >   (_Lebebskampf). These shouts were heard for a very short time. I should
>  >   say for some minutes but I am unable to give the exact span of time."
>  >   (Ibid. p.214fn) 
>  > 
The old "party line".   Too bad there are obvious inconsistencies in it.--rb
>  > 
>  > This testimony is not believeable.  
>  
>  
>  > First of all, the Zyklon was supposedly thrown in through the
>  > top of the roof--not through the side wall.  
>  
>  Incorrect. Kremer was descibing one of the _bunkers_ at Birkenau. These
>  homicidal gassing bunkers where converted farm cottages and had gas-tight
>  ports in their outside walls by which the Zyklon B was thrown in. (cf.
>  Pressac, _Technique_, pp.171-182.) 
>  
>  
>  > Second, compare with this testimony:
>  
>  [Mr. Belling's obviously relished claim of Jewish Ritual Murder snipped]
>  
>  And yout point was, Mr. Belling? What does a supposed account of a ritual
>  murder of a priest by Jews have to do with Kremer's diary and testimony in
>  Poland? 

You figure it out if you are so clever.--rb
>  
>  Why nothing, of course! You have simply presented yet again another smelly
>  dead fish for our inspection. Obviously, as you alluded to this above, you
>  are trying to "prove" that because claims of Jewish Ritual Murder are
>  false that Kremer's testimony about his diary is false. Unfortunately for
>  you, Mr. Belling, that dog don't hunt. 

Unfortunately for you--it does--and will be shoved in your face at every opportunity
to discredit your habit of always using accusation to convict people instead of
evidence.--rb
>  
>  Once again, Mr. Belling, such "reasoning" is a text-book example of the
>  fallacy of "Guilt by Association." Simply beacuse, for example, if it can
>  be show that the confessions of Jews to committimg ritual murder were
>  false and/or coerced does _not_ mean that the testimony of Kremer, in
>  regard to his diary, while on trial in Poland is likewise false and/or
>  coerced. 


Sorry.  I disagree, and I maintain that such confessions were coerced and
obtained by torture.  if you insist that all jewish testimonials to ritual murder
were coerced, I will ask you to prove it.  Otherwise, we must believe the courts
which sentenced them.--rb
>  
>  Once, again, Mr. Belling, if you are claiming, as you seem to be, that
>  Kremer was tortured into giving a scripted testimony by the Poles (a
>  serious accusation, btw) I would suggest you had better back up such
>  allegations with facts. That is, of course, if you wish to be taken
>  seriously. 

I refer you to my previous comments.  There is enough convergence of evidence to
suggest that Germans were indeed tortured to obtain such confessions.--rb
>  
>  Of course, Mr. Belling, you will not- as you _cannot_ -do this, which
>  simply evidences that you are nothing more than a lying scumbag Nazi
>  apologist. 
>  
>  And a poor one at that. But I repeat myself.

With no success, as before.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 12:11:06 PST 1996
Article: 87610 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 11:56:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <59gj96$cap@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32b95eec.174474746@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad55-148.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:

. She beat them, and when she came on
>  to Belsen can you doubt that she carried on in precisely the same way?
>  
>  Mike Curtis
>  
>        Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>        Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?  
>        European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
>        Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>
I dare say that the people who were struck by her, probably deserved it, as many were
thieves stealing the food right out of the mouths of hungry inmates.  Appell was prolonged
not by her, but by the malingerers who refused to be properly counted.  Finally, since when
does a few beatings from a slight woman with a cellophane whip constitute grounds for the
imposition of the death penalty?  Why, only in occupied germany, of course.  BTW, as to Belsen,
Grese stayed away from the prisoners as she had a horror of them, as I clearly showed in my
post.  She carried a revolver for a short time to defend herself.  Why don;t you advise a
prison guard in your own country to set aside his or her firearm in a maximum security prison--
you will be laughed out the door. You are clearly on the losing end with this one.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 12:11:07 PST 1996
Article: 87614 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore, spews more bile and chokes on it... Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:25:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <59gkuu$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd17-059.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <597vrv$iua@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
>  (william c anderson) wrote:
>  
>  > rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > : Reread my Soviet Def Comedy Jam Posts for many more instances
>  > : of obviously fabricated Soviet testimony.  I can post additional material
>  > : if you wish.--rb
>  > 
>  > Uh-huh.  Given the fact that you, a nazi shill and associate of Harold
>  > Covington of the National Socialist White People's Party, came into this
>  > group claiming to be an Honest Seeker of Truth, can you suggest any
>  > reason, Mr. Belling, why anybody here should believe anything you say?

Well, how about the truth, which is something you don't understand very
well, as you say that I am a nazi shill and associate of a man I have never
met or conversed with in my life.  But, no matter to old Mark...if he can just
throw enough mud......just a little more mud.......just a few more insults.....
perhaps people will forget how little he has to offer on alt revisionism.....rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 12:11:08 PST 1996
Article: 87615 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore, spews more bile and chokes on it... Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:26:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  I can suggest several reasons why Mr. Belling _shouldn't_ be believed:
>  

Mark


I can suggest ONE reason why Mark Van Alstine shouldn't be believed--
his comments are an insult to one's intelligence.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 12:11:08 PST 1996
Article: 87616 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reply to Jim Stuart regarding Talmud "quotations"
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:27:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
>  anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
>  fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:
>  
>
Sewer mouth???  Look who's talking!!!  Gentle readers--refer to Mark's
posts and read for yourselves how genteel he is.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 14:40:55 PST 1996
Article: 87628 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: 21 Dec 1996 13:05:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <59gnac$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32BB17B5.3C8@phoenix.net>
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>   Doc Tavish  writes:
>  Michael P. Stein wrote:


>  
>  > Until the Temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt, that's not a law we need to
>  > worry about.
>  > 
>  >     Posted/emailed.
>  > --
>  > Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  > POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  > Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
If, as you say, Judaism does not discriminate in its acceptance of converts,
is there a difference in policy between America and Israel?  i ask this because
I read in the publication "Jewish Currents" that all converts entering Israel are
required to have their passports stamped with the equivalent of a large "C"
for convert.  

Also, what of this incident, again reported in the Jewish Currents, of a woman
>from  eastern europe who emigrated to Israel, died there and was buried in a 
Jewish cemetary.  When the rabbis learned that the woman's mother was not
Jewish (The father was), they invaded the cemetary, dug up the dead woman's
coffin, and threw it into the street, much to the horror of the poor woman's
daughter.  Does this sound tolerant to you?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:05 PST 1996
Article: 87663 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:52:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <59g4vo$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <597lc3$1hmu$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  [end quote]
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Yes, I have already discussed it in email with you and by post.
Now, let's get back to the issues.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:06 PST 1996
Article: 87664 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 07:50:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <59g4s7$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <597l8s$1hmu$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

snip
>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  I hope people notice where that message was sent--the Nazi bastards that
>  "Blackmore" claims he isn't one of.

Grow up, Gordon.  This is humor.  I once heard a group of Jewish students singing
a bawdy song about the mother of Christ, as well as recounting what Christians would
consider to be a blashphemous joke.  Don't play games.  Let's get down to the real
issues at hand.  I don't carry any excess baggage, and a number of personal friends of
mine are of jewish heritage, so cut the crap.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:07 PST 1996
Article: 87670 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:15:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <59g6a9$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  The words speak for themselves bucko.
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Are you  REALLY Ritchie Cunningham?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:08 PST 1996
Article: 87671 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:23:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <59g6qc$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59bt12$1ogm$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:

  You correspond frequently with Harold
  Covington and you did compose the jingle.
  
  Which reads as follows:
  
  
snip
>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  Did you pen the lines *preceding* the jingle?  Or will you try to deny that
>  too?

Yes, I did pen them.  What of it?
BTW,  I am pleased you brought this up.  Now PROVE that I correspond
frequently with harold Covington.  It would be my own business if I did, mind you,
but put some money where your mouth is.......Say $100.00?  You like to make
bets....Now, go ahead, prove it and collect the money.  otherwise, bend the knee
at Conossus-----a word of advice---practice genuflecting.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:09 PST 1996
Article: 87673 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 10:26:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <59ge1c$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59a5bo$83o@access5.digex.net>
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:

However, due to the late period in
>  >time when their crimes came to light, they were later re-arrested and
>  >executed by the Poles.  I am confident that I shall uncover many more such
>  >cases as I continue to do research.
>  
>      Be sure to forward all of them to Prof. Butz.  Do you need his email
>  address?
>  
>      Posted/emailed.  By the way, which address do you prefer for email -
>  tutu101 or rblackmore? 
>  
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
It should be noted that I forwarded an email reply of to this post directly to Mike Stein
and asked him to post it, but he didn't.  So, for the record, i will say that we have
not only the 2 or possibly 3 depositions of Morgen, but also the testimony of
high SS Judge Reinecke, as well as the interogation reports of Eleanor Hodyss,
and a variety of other documents which need to be researched in depth concerning
this very issue.  I do not need Mr. Butz's address or email as I do not know him and really
have nothing to say to him at this point in time, but thank you for offering. Perhaps I should
forward the reports to you as well.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:10 PST 1996
Article: 87674 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:43:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <59g7ul$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  
>  > >  I merely comment that the remarks are really insignificant
>  > >and do not lend support to your claims that Jews were being gassed.
>  > 
>  > Sour grapes.
>  
>  Or, considering the trck record of Mr. "pimple on a duck's butt,"
>  delusions of grandeur. 
>  
>  > There's so much hand waving going on here that I must take my leave.
>  
>  Indeed! Considering all the furious hand-waving by Mr. Belling, it might
>  cause one to assume that a rodent crawled up his ass and died.... 


>  Mark


>  
>>>>
Thanks for the ammuntion, Mark.  Your name calling does serve a purpose
other than showing you to be a hateful asshole.  I am keeping track of all of it.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:10 PST 1996
Article: 87675 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 21 Dec 1996 08:44:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <59g81h$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59bt1c$1ogm$9@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <597alq$8dd$10@uhura.phoenix.net> - Doc Tavish
>  <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net>Tue, 17 Dec 1996 17:29:24 -0600 writes:
>  :>
>  :>Oh Danny boy just two questions and that is all that I will ask. Why the
>  :>fixation and obssession with knowing our real identities? Do you and
>  :>your pals have a nice big surprise for us?
>  :>Doc Tavish (Just hopin' the ball snippers are sharp)
>  
>  Gee Doc, does a post go by where you don't talk about your balls?  Isn't that
>  just a teensy bit weird, to have that kind of ball fetish?  Better get off the
>  farm for a week or two and try girls for a change.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Here is Gordon McFee, ladies and gentlemen--who claims he never insults
anyone.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:11 PST 1996
Article: 87677 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:30:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <59gl8t$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59a0f5$1ip8$3@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>
y
>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
You tell me.  Then prove it.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:12 PST 1996
Article: 87678 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:29:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <59gl7i$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <598o78$ike$3@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  : 
>  : 	I find it equally interesting that people would be "rushing to the
>  : rear."  Would that be to get away from the exhaust inlet?  Does that
>  : mean that there was from the exhaust pipe at the rear of the truck all
>  : the way back up to the front of the truck?  
>  : 
>  
>  I would expect that those seeking to escape would
>  move towards the only exit --- the door --- and try
>  to force it open, irrespective of where the gas was
>  introduced. The door was at the rear of the vans.
>  
>  But someone with an IQ of 163 would certainly have
>  found a better solution.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Someone with an IQ of 90 would have thought up a better lie.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:13 PST 1996
Article: 87679 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:28:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <59gl53$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59c4vg$ej1$3@gruvel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd17-059.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : The whole quotation is obviously contrived.--rb
>  
>  The trouble with the obvious is that it is often not true.
>  The trouble with the truth is that it is often not obvious.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
You fail to address the point.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:14 PST 1996
Article: 87680 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:31:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <59glam$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
When are you going to address the issues, little Gordie??  Afraid?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:15 PST 1996
Article: 87681 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Is 'rblackmore' Up To? (Re: Blackmore lies again  (Was
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:43:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <59gm18$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <599gbn$ghr$2@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  : >   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  : >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote to Chuck Ferree:
>  : >  : 
>  : >  : You're a pathetic old fart 
>  : >  : 
>  : >  
>  : >  
>  : >  Another typo! You should really exercise more
>  : >  care! That should be "*SYM*pathetic old fart"
>  : >  
>  : >  d.A.
>  : >  
>  : >  
>  : >  
>  : >>>>
>  : Sympathetic to you, perhaps.-rb
>  
>  
>  
>  Not "perhaps", but "definitely".
>  
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Too bad for you.  You ought to be more selective in your 
choice of friends.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:16 PST 1996
Article: 87682 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:41:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  
>  Dr. Keren, Mr. Belling, the lying scumbag Nazi apologist, has currently
>  fixated on the sadisctic Irma Grese as his latest Nazi idol. It has been
>  said that Grese, the "blond Angel of Belsen," though a sadistic torturer
>  and murderer, was quite beautiful. Given the obvious paucity of neurons
>  between  Mr. Belling's ears, and his obvious crush on Grese, one cannot
>  help but speculate that the sexually repressed Mr. Belling crossed a few
>  too many of them and came up with
>  "alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornstars. "

One thing I am not is sexually repressed.  Don't project your shortcomings
on to me.  I do not have a fixation on people who have been dead for over
fifty years, but I do dislike the fact that an innocent person was lynched by
prejudiced and hateful people like yourself.
>  
>  A Freudiuan slip perhaps? Or simply Mr. Belling's projecting yet another
>  of Nazi fantasies? Either way, it simply highlights what a depravced and
>  repulsive person Mr. Belling truly is. 

Spare us your insane drivel.  Go tell it to the marines.  You are getting
absolutley nowhere pursuing this line of nonsense, whether you realize it
or not.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 16:38:17 PST 1996
Article: 87683 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:36:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <59gll1$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32c025a4.2944327@news.spry.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:


>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  I guess one of your dirty little secrets is out in the open, eh,
>  Mr. Bellinger? No what was that you had to say previously about
>  your not being one of those nasty bigots?
>  
>>>>
You're barking up the wrong tree, Rover.  As I said many times over,
I am not anti-Semitic.  Just by your implying it does not make it so.  If this
is what you are relying on to attempt to prove your point, and indeed you are--
you are grasping at straws.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 23:08:37 PST 1996
Article: 87723 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 23 Dec 1996 03:41:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 89
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   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  Reply:
  
  It is a poor reply with no substantiation. You received As in history?
  It must have been one of those feed-back-the-dates courses.

Ignoring your insult, I will reiterate that I received straight A's in history--from
high school to college.--rb
  
  
  The emaciated corpses died from disease.
  
  
  How did they become emaciated in the first place?

Diseases--such as typhus, dysentery, etc.  The inability of the camp
administration to provide enough sustenance for the thousands of 
people transferred to this camp during the last two minths of the war
undoubtedly contributed to their illness.  However, this was no fault of
Kramer, as he had no authority to cease the endless shipment of ill inmates
to his camp.--rb
  
  From _The Belsen Trial_. The testimony of Vice-Director of Medical
  Services Brigadier Hugh Llewelyn Glyn Hughs on page 33-4:
  
  Could you give details of the medical supplies? -- There were quite a
  few large stocks in the store, but one issue, I was told by the chief
  doctor there, was 300 aspirin tablets for 17,000 sick people for one
  week. I do not think there were any large quantities of disinfectant
  available and no anti-louse powder issued. I found a large number of
  Red Cross boxes sent by Jewish Associations for the Jews. I was told
  that no issue of the contents had been made except an occasional issue
  of sweets to the children. The boxes contained meat extracts and food
  of all kinds, biscuits, milk. There was some stealing of meat by the
  Hungarian soldiers while I was there.

There was also much stealing by inmates.  As to the Hungarians, undoubtedly
this is true.  Kramer was unable to control these Hungarians, who were battle-
hardened and rebeliious.--rb
  
  What was the food supply in the camp? -- At the time of entry
  practically nil--at the most, one meal a day of watery stew made of
  vegetables.
  
  What was the method of distribution? -- In large metal containers
  which were very heavy. There had been no bread for a fortnight and no
  water for rather a shorter time, and there appeared to be absolutely
  no method of ensuring that each person got their share. when a man or
  woman got too weak to fetch for themselves and their friends became
  indifferent through their own condition, then they got none.

Yes, and this was due to the war.--rb


  
  The artifacts allegedly made from corpses of inmates is a fraud.

  Evidence?

 Yes...?  where is the evidence that they were authentic? 
  The shrunken head came from a museum in South America.-rb

  Evidence?

Ditto.-rb

  
  The German civilians were not ill with typhus, which is spread by
  a germ.
>  
>  My understanding is that it is cause from scratching body lice. The
>  conditions required to produce lice has to be a part of this. When
>  scratched typhus can then enter the blood stream. Most of the
>  witnesses, both German and civilain had been exposed to typhus and
>  survived it. I posted testimony that said that nine-tenths of the
>  people did not die from typhus.

Yes, you are correct, however, the disease itself is certainly triggered by a micro-
organis,.--rb
>  
>  See _The Belsen Trial_ page 127 the testimony of Dr. Leo:

I have already dealt with Dr. Leo's exaggerations in a seperate post.--rb






From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 22 23:08:38 PST 1996
Article: 87725 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 23 Dec 1996 03:46:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <59kvaf$ad1@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  >>  
>  >>  >Did I mention the "wascally Jews"?  And I only hold Nizkook responsible
>  >>  >for their own abysmal ignorance.--rb
>  >>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>  I'm confused. I thought you agreed to put all the name calling aside?
>  >>  
>  >>  Get yourself a service that allows you to compose off-line. Then you
>  >>  can put all this stuff in one post. I wish Moran would do this also
>  >>  for he seems to post something then reflect on it. Then he replies to
>  >>  himself. Geez.
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >Yes, I agreed to put it aside when others do.  Those who continue
>  >to utilize name-calling will be treated in like fashion.--rb
>  
>  I see, you prefer the childish approach, rahter than the adult one. At
>  least you admit to that preference. Blackmore doesn't understand the
>  value of turning the other cheek.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Indeed, I have often turned the other cheek, only to have it vigourously slapped.
Now, when have you turned the other cheek?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:53 PST 1996
Article: 87741 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 23 Dec 1996 03:31:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # The emaciated corpses died from disease.
>  
>  These people, and numerous others, were starved to death.

No, they died drom disease.--rb
>  
>  # The artifacts allegedly made from corpses of inmates is
>  # a fraud.
>  
>  No, they are not. If you can prove they are, go ahead.

I have already posted evidence on this in the past.--rb
>  
>  # The shrunken head came from a museum in South America.
>  
>  You posted this claim a dozen times. Every time I asked you
>  to provide any evidence whatsoever for it, and every time
>  you have declined. You have also failed to address the fact
>  that the shrunken heads are mentioned in an official
>  correspondence between Nazi officials.

I believe you were indeed provided with a reference.  As to the
alleged correspondence, I can only say that it must be another forgery.
You may find evidence of these forgeries in the biography of Lucius
B. Clay, where he freely admitted that these horror pieces were frauds.--rb
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:54 PST 1996
Article: 87743 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!205.252.116.190!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:31:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <59hogg$cji@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd16-179.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  # Is this not one beautiful woman, the very essence of
>  # Teutonic beauty.
>  
>  ## She looks like a guy in drag to me.
>  ##
>  ## But if you say she's beautiful, I can't complain. To each
>  ## his or her own.
>  
>  If there's so much interest, I can post a jpeg of Irma Grese,
>  so this important question can be settled.
>  
>  In
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>  Bormann.jpg
>  
>  There's the photo of another of the SS-women from Auschwitz,
>  Juana Bormann.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Right, Dan....And I suppose the photos were taken at a Hollywood Glamour
Studio and the ladies were attended to by beauticians before the photos you
posted were taken........Would you like me to start scanning and posting photos of Jewish
people from the pages of the Stuermer?  Continue with this little game and I will do it--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:55 PST 1996
Article: 87758 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:19:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <59hnq4$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message  -
>  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi)Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:15:34 -0800
>  writes:
>  :>
>  :>In article <59c9dl$uv2$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>  :>McFee) wrote:
>  
>  [deleted]
>  
>  :>> :>> Your typical exaggerating again.  I notice you omitted my email reply to
>  :>> :>> you on this matter.  How convenient.  Think what you like.  You are wrong
>  :>> :>> as usual.  You remind me of the wolf in Aesop's fable of the wolf and the
>  :>> :>> lamb,
>  :>> :>
>  :>> :>Are you admitting (again) that you are in fact the Troll-Joseph Bellinger ?
>  :>> :>
>  :>> :>[posted/emailed]
>  :>> 
>  :>> He must be, because the e-mail sent to me, to which he is alluding, was sent
>  :>> by rblackmore!
>  :>
>  :>Then if this is indeed the case, recent statements that troll-Joseph
>  :>Bellinger has made under the guise of tutu101 have revealed him to be,
>  :>without a doubt, an anti-semite and a nazi apologist (not that there was
>  :>much doubt in the first place.)
>  
>  That is correct.  His little antisemitic ditty that you will have seen by now,
>  and his correspondence with the creature Covington and company speak volumes.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Only to paranoid people like yourself, Gord.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:56 PST 1996
Article: 87767 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:43:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 102
Message-ID: <59hsni$fco@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59hhsn$al@explorer2.clark.net>
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   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  


  No, I never lied.  I never lie.  It would be playing into your hands.
  
  You either lied about John Sack's book when you called it 100% accurate,
  or you lied later when you told us an excerpt from that book was chock-
  full of lies. This is a fairly clear and easy case. You're still lying
  about the Auschwitz plaques.

Mr. Power, people would respect you more if you wouldn't play them for fools by
distorting comments they are capable of reading for themselves.  And you still refer
to me as a liar about the paques although this issue was settled ages ago.  You 
spread slander, Mr. Power.  It will gain you no admirers except your little clique of
friends.  The Sack book was indeed 100% accurate in that he faithfully recorded
the admissions of his subjects.  Is that too difficult for you to understand without
twisting it any further?--rb
  
  It was misinformation, and no fault of my own.  Check with Mike Stein about it.
    
  In spite of your unprovoked insults, I will answer your question:
  
  You ask what crimes were being investigated.  In the past, I have posted
  a number of cases where SS men were investigated and punished for
  mistreatment of prisoners.
  
  Were any of these punished for mistreatment of Jews in the camp system?
  If so, please give specifics, including dates.

Of course.  however, all of this will have to wait until I locate all the available
research material.  hoess was certainly under investigation for the murder of Jews.
Murder was a crime in Germany in the forties, regardless of race, creed, and color.

  
                          I have also posted proof of Himmler authorizing
  the State Prosecutor of Bavaria to investigate alleged crimes and murders
 conducted by guards at dachau, and giving his consent that any proven
  cases of murder andmistreatment should be punished to the fullest extent of
  the law. 
  
  Were any guards at Dachau ever prosecuted for murder or other mistreatment 
  of Jews?

I cannot provide that information at present. I do know that the Bavarian prosecutor
 was intent upon doing so, and he had Himmler's full authorization to investigate
. I believe it exists.  I will have to dig it out.
I have already posted the statements of a german judge in 1937 as well as
 Eicke's dismissal
of an SS man for mistreatment in the same year.  Obviously these 
cases shall be difficult to research,
but I will do the best with what I have on hand.--rb
>  
>  >    I have shown where Koch was tried and executed by the SS authorities
>  >in full view of the inmates and personnel at Buchenwald for crimes committed
>  >while he was commandant.  Among those crimes was murder.
>  
>  Murder of whom? Of Jews? 

I do not have the indictment in front of me, nor have I ever seen it.--rb
>  
>  >                                          I have also
>  >posted the fact that SS Judicial authorities received the permission of Himmler
>  >to begin investigating other crimes and corruption in the German camps.  himmler
>  >authorized the investigation of Rudolf Hoess, who was scheduled to be arrested
>  >by SS authorities.  Others arrested were Amon Goeth and Maximillian Grabner.
>  
>  Which also has *nothing* to do with murder or mistreatment of Jews.

No.  According to Morgen, this had also to do with murdering jews.--rb
>  
>  >The fact is, it takes time to investigate crimes which by their very nature, were
>  >difficult to investigate in closed camps like Auschwitz and the rest.  Auschwitz was
>  >particularly difficult to investigate, as they were usually in quarantine due to the 
>  >epidemics there.  Consequently it was difficult to gain access to this camp.  In
>  >the book "Anus Mundi" the Polish author writes how anything compromising would
>  >be hidden by Hoess and his close staff whenever Himmler was due to arrive for
>  >inspections.  This is confirmed by others as well.  The witness Eleanor Hodyss,
>  >Hoess's mistress at Auschwitz, was interrogated by SS investigators in Munich,
>  >who were seeking an arrest warrant on Hoess for charges of murder, among other
>  >crimes.  Thus, your question is answered.  there is still much more research needed
>  >in this area, and hopefully I or someone else will provide more details in the future.--rb
>  
>  Bullshit. You have done a little dance aimed at avoiding the question.
>  You have shown not a single instance where any staff in the camp system
>  were punished in any way for murder or mistreatment of Jews.

Go back to pulling your knickers up.  By your very comments you are not interested
in purposeful debate.  Good-bye.
>  
>  Now, can you be honest enough to post, clearly and unambiguously, that
>  you know of no instance in which camp staff were punished by Nazi 
>  authorities for mistreatment of Jews? Or will you continue your little
>  wriggle to avoid the question and mislead readers of this newsgroup?

The only person misleading them is you--and you seem to have done a good job of
misleading yourself ae well.  When I do post the material, and I will, your knickers will
drop of their own accord.....rb
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:57 PST 1996
Article: 87773 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:45:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <59ge6c$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  


>  > 
>  > We can always rely upon Mark for posting all the old wives tales, which have
>  > not even an iota of truth in them.  
>  
>  Mr. Belling, if you have evidence that Hilberg was repeating "old wives
>  tales" [sic] that haven't "an iota of truth in them," please feel free to
>  offer credible evidence confirming so. What? You don't have any? You were
>  simply being a mendacious lying scymbag Nazi apologist? 

No.  It is up to Hilberg to prove the accusations were true.--rb
>  
>  I'm shocked. (Not!) 
>  
>  > Of course mark, now having opened this can of worms, is expected to provide 
>  > proof that Morgen was charged, convicted, and sentenced for these alleged 
>  > murders. 
>  
>  Why? _I_ made no claims that Dr. Morgen was charged, charged, convicted,
>  and sentenced for the deaths of the four Soviet POWs.  Are _you_, Mr,
>  Belling, claiming that he was? 

Then your remarks are irrelevant.--rb
>  
>  > Where is it Mark?  Get that foot out of your
>  > mouth and prepare to stick the other one in....rb
>  
>  More like Mr. Belling should pull his head out of his ass once in a while
>  and come up for air.... 

More of Mark's anal compulsions.--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:57 PST 1996
Article: 87787 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:49:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gjjt$cap@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  > >
>  > nothing of interest
>  > > 
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > After the reading Kurt Stele just gave you, I'll leave you alone....even
>  I feel
>  > sorry for you, Mark.  Sad, really sad.........rb
>  
>  Mr. Smith can _read_? Amazing. Will wonders never cease? Perhaps now he
>  can attept to master writing? And then _maybe_ thinking? (No, _that_ would
>  be too much to ask....) 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1196
>  
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Listen to Mark, the country "bum"kin.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 07:53:58 PST 1996
Article: 87835 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 22 Dec 1996 09:56:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  >>  In message <595u4s$sof@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com17 Dec 1996
>  >>  10:54:20 GMT writes:
>  >>  :>
>  >>  
>  >>  As for mine, I have made it abundantly clear that I post under my own name,
>  >>  always have and always will.  That in itself should make it likely I am not
>  >>  Jewish, since there are few, if any, Jews named McFee (hell, there's few if
>  >>  any *anybody* named McFee).  But to assuage Mr. "Blackmore's mind, allow me to
>  >>  state that I am not Jewish.  Not that it matters a hill of beans.
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >I was never particularly concerned that you were.  I only considered you insane.
>  
>  
>  Oh, now it becomes very clear. To disagree with Blackmore is a sign
>  that one is insane! Hmmmm. What did they tell us about this kind of
>  argument in Debate 101? Oh, yes, I recall. They tell us that those who
>  are out of debate and find themselves losing usually will go into
>  neurotic fantasies. They will actually think they are scoring points
>  with blustering hyperbole. They will think that they are actually
>  presenting a valid argument about the topic at hand by mounting a
>  personal attack on the other. Then they will, after it is all over, be
>  flushed with their sense of victory that they will talk about their
>  success among their cohorts. But, dear readers, this is what debate is
>  really about, isn't it? Both sides should think they have won certain
>  points. Both sides should come out of a debate feeling good about what
>  they had done. Unfortunately, the debaters _rarely_ see themselves
>  through the eyes of their audience. 
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I take it you were referring to yourself and your friends in the above passage?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 10:24:26 PST 1996
Article: 87854 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 22 Dec 1996 08:48:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
  # Her testimony clearly says that she never saw gas chambers
  # and it was only based upon rumors.
  
  Her testimony clearly says that she participated in the
 gas chamber selections. One of her duties, which she spoke
  about, was to chase the victims who tried to escape after
  being selected to die in the gas chambers, and bring them
  back to the roll call.

No, Dan.  her testimony says that she participated in selections, but she
had no personal knowledge that such people were being gassed.  That
was based upon rumor.  It is sad that you cannot bring yourself to do and
say the right thing even in this case.  you still cling on to your delusions like
a true fanatic.--rb
  
  Being the lying Nazi that you are, you "forgot" this
  part of her testimony.
  
  # She didn't gas anyone.
  
  That's true. But she did testify about the selections.

Yes.  There were selections.  She never saw any gas chambers nor anyone gassed.--rb
>  
>  # You should see a rabbi about this lying problem you seem
>  # to have.
>  
>  Look at this Nazi swine, "rblackmore". Save for Matt Giwer,
>  he is the worst liar in this group. A good example is his
>  claim that Amon Goeth was "executed by the SS" for
>  mistreating Jews, while in reality he was tried and executed
>  by the Poles after the war.
>  
Well, you were upbraded by your own colleague, Mr. Stein about this, yet
you have the audacity to repeat the slander again.--rb

>  # You need spiritual guidance.
>  
>  Look who's talking... a Nazi swine, who:

Now it is Nazi swine?  You are a pathetic person, Mr. Keren.--rb
>  
>  1) Constantly lies about the Holocaust (see above).
>  
>  2) Posts hard-core antisemitic "poems" to a Nazi mailing
>     list (see Gord McFee's articles in which the "poem"
>     is quoted), and then says it was a "joke".
>  
>  3) Hounds teenage boys on alt.acadia, and then says that
>     it wasn't him, but someone else using his account.
>  
>  You're really a piece of filth, "rblackmore"... a lying,
>  perverted piece of filth.

We all see what you are, Danny....How can you live with yourself?--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 11:39:13 PST 1996
Article: 87856 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.dra.com!news.id.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:17:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <59hnln$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59ghqi$sfi@news.enter.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >  >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  
>  >  >  	I suggest that you add to your extensive library:
>    
>  >  >  	"The Talmud: A Reference Guide" by Adin Steinsaltz.  It runs about 
>  >  >  $25,00 in paperback. : "The Tosafot were the collective creation of Rashi's 
>  >  >  disciples and their students (including many of his own descendants), and 
>  they 
>  >  >  are a kind of summary of the style of study and inquiry in the yeshivot of 
>  France 
>  >  >  and Germany in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries.  They began as additions 
>  to 
>  >  >  and notes on Rashi's [often cryptic] commentary; they were subsequently 
>  >  >  expanded and became a profound and independent interpretation of the 
>  >  >  Gemara itself, indeed, in some cases one can view them as an extension of 
>  the 
>  >  >  Talmudic discussion."  page 52
>  
>  >  Well, then, does this mean that they are generally considered as a part of the
>  >  Talmud?  And thank you for illuminating the subject.  I will certainly look for this
>  >  book.--rb
>  
>  	No more than the published opinions of the Supreme Court are 
>  considered part of the Constitution.
>  
>  	Steinsaltz's book is published by Random House.
>  
>  	--YFE 	
>  
>>>>
Well, you gave an evasive answer to my question regarding the Talmud, but thanks anyway.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Dec 23 11:39:14 PST 1996
Article: 87863 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reply to Jim Stuart regarding Talmud "quotations"
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:24:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  
>>>>
You haven't done a very good job of it Mark.  better brush up on those anal
expletives you love to use.  In fact, your whole life seems to be one long, uninterrupted
anal expletive.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:38 PST 1996
Article: 87877 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Juana Bormann and the Big Bad Wolf Hound
Date: 23 Dec 1996 19:46:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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Juana Bormann and the Big Bad Wolf Hound

One of the women hanged with Irma Grese was Juana Bormann. 
 Ms.  Bormann was a petite, almost fragile woman,  who was 53
 years old at the time of her trial.  After a careful examination of the
 trial records, it is clear that only two witnesses might have saved Ms
.  Bormann from the death penalty: her dog, and a certain Sturmbannfuehre
r Hartjenstein.  Needless to say, the authorities made no attempt to locate
 Hartjenstein, and while the dog was in custody, he apparently decided to
 take the fifth ammendment.  In fact, it wasn’t so long ago when animals 
were actually sworn in as witnesses in murder trials.  Considering the biased
 nature of the trials conducted by the allies against the Germans, the reimposition
 of this procedure would have been an improvement in the proceedings.  

Ms.  Bormann was clearly convicted solely on the basis of alleged
 eyewitness testimony.  I write "alleged" because none of the accusations
 were ever proven to be facts by independent evidence.  No two witnesses
 ever witnessed the same incidents.  The primary accusations preferred
 against Ms. Bormann consisted of the following:

a.  That she participated in selections for the "gas chambers".
b.  That she set her dog upon hapless inmates
c.  That she struck recalcitrant inmates

All of her accusers were Jewish.

"a" is easily dispensed with as it has been demonstrated
 in the literature of the period that only doctors were 
allowed to make "selections".

"b" could have been settled simply by calling either other
 Aufseherinnen who worked with her at the time o
r Sturmbannfuehrer Hartjenstein as witnesses.  This,
 however, was never done.

"c"  There is no doubt that this frail little woman slapped
 prisoners whenever they committed infractions, such as
 stealing, malingering, and so on.

So how is it that Ms. Bormann received the death penalty? 
  The single major factor which led to her conviction and
 execution was the eyewitness testimony of survivors.  History
 provides many examples of injustice brought about by false
 testimony.  As in the Salem witch trials as well as cases of alleged
 Jewish ritual murder, the testimony of  "survivors"  and "eyewitnesses"
 often smacks of hysteria and what the Germans call "Rache", or revenge.
  In the witchcraft trials, the chief motivation for giving false testimony
 seemed to be a mixture of superstition, fear, hysteria, and jealousy.
  In the cases of Jewish ritual murder, the motivation seemed to be
 prompted by jealousy, superstition, fear, and hysteria.  Sometimes 
envy played a role, but not always.  After all, how envious could one
 be of junk peddlers, and so on, as frequently these were the very
 sort of persons accused.  In the case of accused Germans, the chief
 motivation seemed to be revenge, hatred, and hysteria.  Indeed, according
 to Freud in his book entitled Dora, Jewish women are particularly prone to
 afflictions of hysteria, which might explain why so many of the witnesses at
 the Belsen trial were women..  Thus, if we accept Freud’s theories, woman
 in general, and Jewish women in particular, seem to be more affected by 
affllictions of hysteria than men.  Not only is this idea borne out by an
 examination of the witchcraft trials, but this seems to also be self-evident
 in the "Satanic ritual" accusations so frequently voiced in our own era over
 the past three decades.

In regard to the case of Ms. Bormann, she was accused of
 setting a large black dog upon recalcitrant inmates.  It was
 said that these dog bites often led to fatalities.  However, one
 obvious flaw in this story is that, according to not only Ms. Bormann,
 but other witnesses as well, such behavior was strictly prohibited by
 concentration camp regulations and would have resulted in not only
 an investigation of the incident, but in disciplinary action against the
 offender.  It is repeatedly been shown that, while coprporal punishment
 WAS permitted, permission had to be authorized by a central office in Berlin. 
 Thus, Bormann’s explanation would appear to be credible.  Also, Bormann
 did not own a black wolf-hound, as one of the witnesses maintained. 
 Surely the prosection and the Judges were aware of this fact, as the dog

 was taken into British custody upon the liberation of Belsen.

It should also be noted that Ms. Bormann was frequently
 confused with another Aufseherin who was also stationed
 at Auschwitz.  It appears that no attempt was made by either
 the defense or prosecution to locate this woman, as both defense
 and prosecution both worked for the same team:  England and the
 allies.  Aside from all this, Ms. Bormann specifically stated that at
 Auschwitz she never had the dog.  This could have been verified
 by an examination of fellow Aufseherinnen, but not surprisingly, this
 was never done.  

Ms Bormann was also accused of selecting inmates for the
 ubiquitous "gas chambers".  However, since the court never
 established by forensic evidence that there ever WAS a gas
 chamber at Auschwitz or anywhere else , this charge is hardly
 worth addressing.

One witness, Helena Kopper, accused Bormann of being in 
charge of the clothing stores, and this was disproven.  Thus,
 her allegations of abuse were false.  Another witness, Lydia
 Sunschein, stated that Ms. Bormann struck other women so
 hard in the face that their teeth were knocked out.  I have
 already dealt with Ms. Sunschein’s hysterical imaginings in an
 earlier post and need not recount them again here.  The one
 item worth mentioning is that one may see that Ms.  Sunschein
 was exaggerating simply by noting that Juana Bormann was a
 rather frail woman.

Curiously, Ms. Bormann was accused of beating women
 with a rubber truncheon, an item which was never used
 in the German police system.  As Ms. Bormann wryly noted
 on the stand, the first time she ever saw a rubber truncheon
  was in the hands of a British MP.

Finally, the petty thief and liar Herta Ehlert makes an appearance
 once again, this time to state her irrelevant opinion of Ms. Bormann
 for the benefit of the British Kangaroo Court.  For the benefit of the
 prosecution, Ms. Ehlert said in a statement presented to the court
 that although she never personally witnessed it herself, it was her
 opinion that Ms. Bormann was just the type who would have been
 brutal to inmates and set her vicious dog upon them.  Take the 
comments for what they are worth---nothing--coming from the likes
 of Herta Ehlert.

In conclusion, if ever there was a modern case of  phoney witch 
hysteria, that case would be Juana Bormann, who, instead of being
 burned at the stake, was hanged at the scaffold. 

References:  

The Belsen Trial
Dora, by Sigmund Freud
Encycolpedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, Robbins 



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:39 PST 1996
Article: 87889 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 23 Dec 1996 20:16:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <59mpb1$72@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59l47j$23h@news.enter.net>
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   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
     rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
      You posted this claim a dozen times. Every time I asked you
      to provide any evidence whatsoever for it, and every time
      you have declined. You have also failed to address the fact
      that the shrunken heads are mentioned in an official
      correspondence between Nazi officials.
    
    I believe you were indeed provided with a reference.  As to the
    alleged correspondence, I can only say that it must be another forgery.
    You may find evidence of these forgeries in the biography of Lucius
    B. Clay, where he freely admitted that these horror pieces were frauds.--rb
  
  	I have the relevant pages of Clay's autobiography in front of me. (Page 
  254)  He makes no such statement complaining only: "Perhaps I erred in judgment 
  [in commuting Koch's sentence] but no one can share the responsibility of a 
  reviewing officer.  Later the Senate committee which unanimously criticized this 
  action heard witnesses who gave testimony not contained in the record before me. 
   I could only take action on that record."
  
  	So much for "blackmore's' statement.
  
  	--YFE 
>  
>>>>
In the book "Lucius D. Clay--An American Life, Jean Edward Smith, Henry Holt 
& Co., 1990, he reproduces an interview with Clay.  Here is an excerpt:

CLAY:  ".....one of the reasons I revoked the death sentence of Ilse Koch.  There
was absolutely no evidence in the trial manuscript, other than that she was a rather
oathesome creature, that would support the death sentence.  I received more abuse
for that than anything else I did in Germany.  Some reporter had called her the "Bitch of
 Buchenwald", had written that she had lampshades made out of human skin in her
house.  And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the 
lampshades were made out of goatskin."  P. 300-301.

Time to enter into the nineties, Yale.

Question:  How many lawyers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Answer:  Hiow many of them can you afford?---rb



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:40 PST 1996
Article: 87913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:35:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <59iocj$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
>  
>  buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
>  Emaciated corpses of the inmates.
>  
>  buchenwald02.jpg:
>  Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.
>  
>  shrunken.jpg: 
>  The shrunken head of an inmate.
>  
>  buchenwald04.jpg: 
>  German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops 
>  have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how 
>  well-dressed and well-fed they are.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Reply:

The emaciated corpses died from disease.

The artifacts allegedly made from corpses of inmates is a fraud.

The shrunken head came from a museum in South America.

The German civilians were not ill with typhus, which is spread by
a germ.  It would take about 2 years of allied policy before the Germans
living near Buchenwald would resemble the corpses in the photos.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:41 PST 1996
Article: 87921 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 22 Dec 1996 08:00:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <59ipq3$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59hgnf$omh@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Do you regard the menstral flow as "impure", in the same sense as
>  >other bodily funcitions dealing with elimination?
>  
>  If you're all that interested in the 613 Commandments, read the
>  Pentateuch. Ritual impurity was acquired in a lot of different
>  ways, association with menstrual flow being one of them. (This
>  could stretch beyond the woman experiencing the flow.) If you find
>  this a great occasion for rude comments (and I could certainly
>  guide you to bits of the Bible which would work even better),
>  don't forget that this was the Law of which Jesus testified that
>  neither jot nor tittle would pass away.
>  
>>>>
You wouldn't need to guide me, Mr. Power.  I am quite familiar with
the Bible.  And if this was the law which Jesus said neither jot nor
title would pass away, why was circumcision done away with?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:42 PST 1996
Article: 87924 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:26:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


 ...there certainly was a serious food shortage through-
 out Germany.  
  
  And your evidence for this is, Mr. Belling? 
  
   Supplies had to be transported many miles to different locations.  
  
  And your evidence for this is, Mr. Belling? 
  
   people in prisons are usually unaccustomed to receiving gourmet faire.  
  
  But they are, I would assert, used to eating _something_. 
  
   Fact is, anyone familiar with the chain of command in the German Armed Forces 
   will know that it was impossible for Kramer to requisistion more food than he 
   was alloted for, as food also needed to be sent
   to other cities.  
  
  And your evidence for this is, Mr. Belling? Specifiaclly, what is your
  evidence that the stores at the nearby Panzergrenadier School was to be
  sent to other cities? 
  
   For a detailed explanation of this mess, look for my repost of the kramer 
>  > trial.
>  
>  Translation: Mr. Belling has no answer so he frantically waves his hands. 
>  
>  > Hope it answers your questions, Doc.--rb
>  
>  Only, I would inagine, if Mr. McTavish likes to watch your hand wave
>  rather frantically to and fro....


>  
>>>>
I know I am spoiling things for you but:  concerning the food allocations and
such as well as the food and supply shortages, you will find the info in the text
of the trial, if you look hard enough.  While I have never promised you that I
would do your research for you, you did indeed assure me that you would 
post the alleged information regarding the mythical autopsies conducted on
mythical deceased at Dachau by Dr. Larson.  Funny thing---it was never posted.
Kramer would have had more than enough crow pie from you to feed the entire
camp for a month.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:43 PST 1996
Article: 87925 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer II
Date: 22 Dec 1996 08:32:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <59irnl$eq4@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59ict7$3hq@access1.digex.net>
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>   mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <59hlf9$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >Well, you have answered your own question.  He asked and was refused.
>  >He couldn't very well bake the loaves himself.  He did whatever he could, and
>  >that is all one can expect from any human being.
>  
>      I would agree that he did some things, but there are other things he
>  could and should have tried - most noticeably with regard to the water
>  situation. 
>  
>      As we discussed earlier, I think on what I have seen so far of what he
>  did at Belsen - I am not as up on it as other matters - and ignoring
>  anything which happened anywhere other than Belsen, at this time I would
>  find for negligent homicide but reasonable doubt as to wilful murder.
>  
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
I must say that this is an honest  answer, which was obviously made after
 due consideration of the facts presented, as I have ever seen from among
the "opposition".  Amazingly, Mr. McFee also once remarked that Streicher's offenses
did not deserve the imposition of the death penalty.  Perhaps there is still hope for a
non-biased approach in the study of the Holocaust.  However, after Mr. McFee's most
recent posts, it seems that he has decided to cast non-bias aside in favor of running
with the pack.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:43 PST 1996
Article: 87928 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:26:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gl7i$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>

>  > Someone with an IQ of 90 would have thought up a better lie.--rb
>  
>  Why? You never do. 


>  
>>>>
That's a peculiar comment from someone with the IQ of a common
pin worm.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:44 PST 1996
Article: 87929 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:27:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <59j2f9$hr6@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
That wasn't the question.  You can post that ditty from now until next
Christmas for all I care.  It is more interesting than what you usually write.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:45 PST 1996
Article: 87931 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 22 Dec 1996 08:43:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 109
Message-ID: <59isbd$eq4@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:


  
  [Questioning from Major Cranfield for her defense]
  
  Where did the order come from for what we call "selection parades"? --
  That came by telephone from a RapportFührerin or from Oberaufseherin
  Dreschel.
  
  [I will make a comment here and now and again to make clear what has
  been going on prior to her testimony. She does not deny the slection
  parades as defined by the court. She is familiar with the various
  parades. some of these are calls to select work parties. Some were
  roll calles or Appelle. Some were attended only by Jews and these were
  the special treatment parades. Non-Jews did not form up for these
  particular parades. So follows the next question.]
  
  When the order came were you told what the parade was for? -- No.
  
  What were the prisoners supposed to do when the whistle went? -- Fall
  in in fives, and it was my duty to see that they did so. Dr. Mengele
  then came and made the selection. As I was responsible for the camp my
  duties were to know how many people were leaving and I had to count
  them, and I kept the figures in a strength book. After the selection
  took place they were sent into "B" Camp, and Dreshel telephoned and
  told me that they had gone to another camp in Germany for working
  purposes or for special treatment, which I thought was the gas
  chamber. I then put in my strength book either so many for transfer to
  Germany to another camp, or so many for S.B. (Sonder Behandlung). It
  was well known to the whole camp that S. B. meant the gas chamber.
  
  [That sounds very honest and clear. If only Mr. Blackmore and his ilk
  could only be as honest as Miss Grese.]

That was not overlooked when I wrote my post.  It is clear that she NEVER
saw a gas chamber and had only been told of their alleged existence by prisoners
on the basis of rumors.--rb
  
  Were you told anything about the gas chamber by your senior officers?
  -- No, the prisoners told me about it.----Ditto.-rb
  
  You have been accused of choosing prisoners on these parades and
  sending them to the gas chamber. Have you done that? -- No; I knew
  that prisoners were gassed.

Something had to have been lost in the translation here, as she already
unequivocally said that it was on the basis of rumors that she heard people
were gassed.  this, therefore, is a non-sequitor.--rb
>  
>  [Another definate statement along with a "I wasn't involved although
>  it happened plea. One will find that as one reads this trial that
>  there were beatings and deaths and selections that both S. S. and
>  prisoners saw. Yet, no one did them themselves or saw others doing
>  them. Most claimed to strike with their hands and not use weapons.
>  Grese was much more honest. -

Grese was indeed honest and she did not deserve to have her life ended.--rb
>  
>  [page 249]
>  
>  Did you carry a stick at Auschwitz? -- Yes, an ordinary walking-stick.
>  
>  Did you carry a whip at Auschwitz? -- Yes, made out of cellophane in
>  the weaving factory in the camp. It was a very light whip, but if I
>  hit somebody with it, it would hurt. After eight days Kommandant
>  Kramer prohibited whips, but we nevertheless went on using them, I
>  never carried a rubber truncheon.
>  
>  Later under prosecution questioning by Col. Backhouse:
>  
>  [page 256]
>  
>  Were you allowed to beat people? -- No.
>  
>  So it was not a question of having orders from your superiors to do
>  it. You did this against orders, did you? -- Yes.
>  
>  Were you the only person who beat prisoners against regulations? -- I
>  do not know.
>  
>  Did you ever see anyone else beat prisoners? -- Yes.
>  
>  Did you sometimes get orders to do so? -- No.
>  
>  Did you give orders to other Aufseherinnen working under you to beat
>  prisoners? -- Yes.
>  
>  Had you the right to give such authorization? -- No.
>  
>  Sorry for the digression. ]

And?  This young woman had the right to defend herself and maintain order,
even though it was against camp regulations, which says something about
the camp administration--in that they did not allow gratuitous beatings.  I dare
say that prisoners beating other prisoners was more common than prisoners being
beaten by guards.  Again, the iomposition of a few beatings does not warrant the death
penalty.--rb
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:45 PST 1996
Article: 87932 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:06:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <59ms80$33r@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32bdf510.103836646@news.gte.net>
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   unterdreckenfuehrer@nizkook.org (Inveigh the kenneth) writes:
  On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 16:52:02 +0000, Chuck Ferree 
  wrote:



Beers all around, on me.
  
  	40 kills in one sorty.  An ACE also.  
  
  	Is there anything this man has not done?  


Yes.  Two things:

1.  Act like a gentleman
2.  Tell the truth.



>  	
>  =====
>  If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
>  ---
>  Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:46 PST 1996
Article: 87941 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:43:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <59hp65$cji@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32c7f76b.5193865@news.inetport.com>
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   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  


  Read a few more posts.  Of course you will now prove to us that
  this 4 million were really Gentiles?
  
  Oops. A mistake. Who is the US, Mr. Blackmore? You have continually
  suggested that you are a part of no party but prefer to stand alone as
  a serious scholar. Hmmmmm.
  
    I am waiting...go to it, if you dare....
  Since you are so clever, give US the figures...what do you say?  Are
  you up for the challenge?  Wouldn't you like to dish out the crow pie
  that Mark Van Alstine failed to deliver?--rb
  
  
  This, of course, is uncalled for.
  
  Mike Curtis 
  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Who is "us"?  Who are "elohim"?  Stop twisting a simple expression.
And the challenge is repeated:

>  >  I am waiting...go to it, if you dare....
>  >Since you are so clever, give US the figures...what do you say?  Are
>  >you up for the challenge?  Wouldn't you like to dish out the crow pie
>  >that Mark Van Alstine failed to deliver?--rb
>  
>  


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:47 PST 1996
Article: 87942 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:40:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <59hp12$cji@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
    rblackmore@juno.com writes:
       ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
  


  
  	The question is not whether you can lie about the placque.  You did 
  so.  You specifically claimed that it stated "Jews."  The question is why did you 
  think you could get away with it.  That is a question only you could answer.

If you research Deja news, you will see that it was answered.  Stop fiddling around
with this nonsense.  You attempt to make a big balloo over whether Jews were specifically
mentioned on these plaques or now.  Whether they were or weren't, the results are still the
same.  You nor the Polish Auschwitz "Museum" can come up with convincing figures to show
that millions of non-Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.  --rb
  
  
      In Room 1 of Block 4 there was an urn. "The urn with a handful of ashes,
      collected in the Birkenau terrain, commemorates '4 million of those'
      who had perishhed there."
    
    Yes, and these alleged four million were what--Eskimoes?  Are you so
    dense?
 
  	Why are you so dishonest.  The Poles consistently claimed it was 
>  Poles.  As one sociologist who studied the Polish conception of Auschwitz stated 
>  it was "Auschwitz without Jews." (citation previously provided).
>  
>  >  So?  What is your contention, then, that 1.5 million Jews were killed at
>  >  Auschwitz and 2.5 million Gentiles?  Is that what you are now asking us 
>  >  to swallow?  Lotsa luck...-rb
>  
>  	No.  No one is stating that this is the fact.  They have been stating that 
>  this was the Polish position.  It was.  Why are you so dense?  Or is it just 
>  dishonesty?

Let's go another round on this----the Poles called the Jews Poles, is that it?
It doesn't change the fact that the millions referred to were not Poles but Polish
Jews....entienda...?  Quibble, quibble.....rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:48 PST 1996
Article: 87946 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 23 Dec 1996 22:01:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <59mvfg$33r@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59ke2m$kqc@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >I already clarified this in a previous post.  I did not have the
>  >article in front of me when I posted.  There were indeed 19
>  >such inscribed slabs and none of them specifically mentioned
>  >Jews, but it is quite implicit.  Otherwise, how did publications like
>  >Pictorial history of the Jewish People come up with this quote?
>  >I have no problem with your quotes, but tell me----
>  >Who do you think the four million refer to? 
>  
>  Very simple solution, Joe--are you really to stupid to figure it
>  out? The editors put together a piece of false information (which
>  they presumably supposed to be valid), namely that the Auschwitz 
>  victims numbered 4,000,000, with a piece of true information, that
>  the overwhelming  majority of those murdered at Auschwitz were
>  Jews. Untruth plus truth created a new untruth. This new untruth,
>  an innocent and understandable mistake, was not the Auschwitz 
>  Museum's untruth. The Auschwitz Museum's untruth was a lie; the
>  Encyclopedia's was a mistake partially based on that lie.
>  
>  Am I going too fast for you, Joe? Maybe you can show this to your
>  niece and she can explain it to you better.
>  
>>>>
I dare say she has greater understanding than you do.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:49 PST 1996
Article: 87948 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 23 Dec 1996 22:02:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  
>  Blackmore:
>  >>  Read a few more posts.  Of course you will now prove to us that
>  >>  this 4 million were really Gentiles?
>  >  
>  
>  Mr. curtis:
>  >  Oops. A mistake. Who is the US, Mr. Blackmore? You have continually
>  >  suggested that you are a part of no party but prefer to stand alone as
>  >  a serious scholar. Hmmmmm.
>  >  
>  
>  Blackmore:
>  >    I am waiting...go to it, if you dare....
>  >  Since you are so clever, give US the figures...what do you say?  Are
>  >  you up for the challenge?  Wouldn't you like to dish out the crow pie
>  >  that Mark Van Alstine failed to deliver?--rb
>  >  
>  >>>>>
>  >Who is "us"?  Who are "elohim"?  Stop twisting a simple expression.
>  >And the challenge is repeated:
>  
>  Elohim is the one of the names of God, if I recall correctly. Part of
>  the JEPD. (It's the E part.) Yahweh is the J part. That was the other
>  name for God. It wasn't cleared up until Moses asked the real name. 
>  
>  So it would be nice to no who the US is rather than your evasions.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Us refers to the browsers and myself.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:49 PST 1996
Article: 87954 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore, spews more bile and chokes on it... Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:23:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <59gkuu$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com21 Dec 1996
>  12:25:02 GMT writes:
>  
>  [deleted]
>  
>  :>Well, how about the truth, which is something you don't understand very
>  :>well, as you say that I am a nazi shill and associate of a man I have never
>  :>met or conversed with in my life.  But, no matter to old Mark...if he can just
>  :>throw enough mud......just a little more mud.......just a few more insults.....
>  :>perhaps people will forget how little he has to offer on alt revisionism.....rb
>  
>  Then why are you exchanging little antisemitic ditties with him, rb?
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Who beside you said anything about exchanging a ditty?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:50 PST 1996
Article: 87955 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:15:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >
>  > She makes no secret of it. She beat them, and when she came on
>  >>  to Belsen can you doubt that she carried on in precisely the same way?
>  >>  
>  >>  Mike Curtis
>  >>  
>  >>        Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>  >>        Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?  
>  >>        European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
>  >>        Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >And you maintain that a 21 year old girl deserved death for striking malingerers
>  >and people who stole food portions from other inmates?  Sad, even for you.-rb
>  
>  Actually, she was 22.
>  
>  She was charged with two charges, btw. She mostly convicted herself.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
That's funny. I felt that she most exonerated herself.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:51 PST 1996
Article: 87956 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore, spews more bile and chokes on it... Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:22:14 GMT
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>   

>  
>>>>
Your bravado is about as inspiring as the smell of Brother Juniper's feet.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:52 PST 1996
Article: 87957 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:30:57 GMT
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >  You're barking up the wrong tree, Rover.  As I said many times over,
>  >  I am not anti-Semitic.
>  
>  	"I am not a crook."  Richard M. Nixon
>  
>  
>  >  Just by your implying it does not make it so.
>  
>  	No but posting anti-Semitic drivel you have written makes a fairly 
>  conclusive argument -- especially when you have refused to address the issue.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
Adress what issue, Yale?  What is it you would like me to address to 
assauge your suspicions?  


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:53 PST 1996
Article: 87959 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Doc Tavish--Kramer Repost 1
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:35:56 GMT
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>   Brian Harmon  writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > 
>  > >
Well, you have answered your own question.  It was not Kramer who had
ordered these Hungarians, who were new to the camp, to mistreat prisoners.

Re:  If Kramer did all that he could to help the inmates:

 It was, but you keep insisting that Kramer did all he could, 
>  when it is clear that he didn't.

It certainly is NOT clear that he didn't.  Otherwise we would not keep 
addressing this issue.  I believe I have posted the truth in this matter.
If you can't see it-that's fine.  We'll just move along to something else.

  He had equipment in the camp and nearby rivers to supply the
>  inmates with water. 

What equipment did he have in the camp? 
  Kramer is only guilty of ignorance here, as he thought the river
was polluted-and it probably was.  It was only in his best interests to supply
the inmates with water if he could.  He was intelligent enough to realize this.

  
>  I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all.

Which means that sometimes there was reason.

 He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
>  shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
>  hundreds were shot per day.

This would have to be confirmed by autopsies and then investigate
each and every case, as in a regular criminal case.

Also, even the british had to resort to firearms to contain the prisoners, as you
may read on page 37.  It is true that they did not shoot AT them, but nevertheless,
they had to resort to firearms.
>  
>  
 If Kramer was simply doing the best he could to save
>  the lives of the starving and ill inmates in the camp, 
>  why on earth were they forced to work like this, without
>  any water?

First you need to establish that Kramer issued such an order,
rather than these excesses being committed on whim by the
guards and overseers.  Kramer could not be ubiquitous.

  Also note that anyone who fell by the wayside was either left 
>  to die or killed on the spot.

Again, one would need to prove that Kramer gave such an order.
These crimes seem to have occurred sporadically and on the whims of the
guards, often from different units sent during the last weeks of the war.  In any
event, pandamonium reigned in the camp by this time, and these guards would
not have given a damn about what Kramer had to say about things at this point
in time anyway.

...and yet you'd like to believe that Kramer had the inmates
>  interests at heart.
>  
>  I wonder more and more why you believe this.

Because it appears to be true.  If he was uninterested in their fate, he would
have fled like a common criminal.  He also would not have given a damn about
isolating the children from the main body of the camp, where disease was running
rampant.  He also showed good faith by writing an appeal to his superiors, who were
the only authorities in germany who could have helped him with the problem they
threw in his lap.  THEY were responsible for the conditions of the camp-not Kramer.

 I don't have it handy right now, but you may find it in Reitlingers, "The Final Solution".
>  > Refer to the index under Kramer.  All is there.
>  
>  Sigh.

No.  Don't sigh.  I am not your mother to run and address your every little whim.
I have given you the information and you will simply have to visit your library and
read it for yourself, as I had to.  I cannot do all your research for you, as I am often
told by the Nizkor people.  If you have come this far, you can take the next step.

 But you said rather explicitly that people suffering from dysentery
>  should be withheld food, which is why Kramer would not give it to them.
>  
Please don't twist my words.  I simply indicated that food is not a treatment for dysentery,
much less for gastro-enteritis.  Kramer had nothing to do with this.  The point was:
Kramer did not have the food for all these people, and even if he did, it would NOT
have helped them.  They needed advanced medical treatment.  These people were
seriously ill before they were even sent to Kramer during the last 2 months of the war.
It might help you if you could keep that thought in mind.
>   
 Were all of the inmates suffering form dysentery, btw?

No.  Remarkably some patients were in fair health.  Some of the other ailments
they had were gastro-enteritis-a very severe condition.  Food will cause such patients
to vomit, as well as inducing great pain.  I believe I read somewhere that many patients
died when the British attempted to administer food.  This would have been caused by
the gastro-enteritis.  Typhus was also beginning to spread throughout the camp,
undoubtedly 
due to the contaminateed water as well as the unhygenic conditions in a camp which 
was occupied by some 60,000 inmates!  The typhus was carried into the camp
 by Hungarian prisoners transferred into the camp in February, one month
 before the camp's liberation.  Tuberculosis was also a problem, as it is in most
institutions even today.  However, in one of the barracks, the British Medical officer
testified that "In regards to health, their general condition was not too bad and their
clothing was quite reasonable."  Pg. 34. (Re:the inmates)

 The camp was originally built to accomodate 
only a fraction of this number.  The influx came only within the last few months of the
war.  13,000 people had already died from a variety of illnesses before Kramer was
able to arrange for the transfer of the camp over to the British.  Thousands more were
to die even after the British assumed control.  80% of the people had dysentery.
The camp was woefully lacking in medical supplies.  There were 300 aspirins for some
17,000 inmates in one compound.  

  I'd be more convinced if i had some evidence that Kramer actually did
>  anything to improve conditions in the camp.

Well, there already is evidence of this, which I addressed above.

  The rivers were not contaminated, as the british were able to supply
>  the camp with potable water from them.   And yet there is no evidence
 that it needed to be treated. Also, the British 
>  used equipment located _within the camp_ to supply water, so Kramer
 certainly had the means to provide water.

This is debateable, and perhaps he simply did not possess the ingenuity to
 deal effectively with the issue.  I still maintain that the river water was
 generally thought of by both the Germans and British initially as NOT suitable
for drinking.  In fact, on page 45 of the Belsen Trial you may read the
following:

"All water was brought in by British water trucks."  Also:

"The water in the tanks and in the concentration area was completely foul,
and as an immediate emergency measure some army water-carts were sent
in."  Pg. 54.

It is clear that this water did NOT come from the river, but from British supplies.
In fact, though a British officer later stated that the water pumped in from the river
was "fit to drink", they still brought in water from British water carts for immediate
use in the camp.  It took four to five days to supply the camp with water from the 
river.  As to HOW this officer knew that the river water was potable, or whether
he himself drank of it, the records do not say.

  If the water at Belsen was contaminated, why didn't Kramer do anything about it?
>  
Well, what could he have done?  Even the British had to resort to their own water 
supplies to relieve the camp for the first week.  I think that Kramer addressed this
issue by recognizing his own incompetence in not being able to supply the camp with
water, and arranging for the British to come to the relief of the camp. THAT is what
he appears to have done.

  Mr. Giwer provided no citation for this.  Given his nasty lying habit, 
>  i don't believe him.

I cannot answer for Mr. Giwer, but I did try to provide you with some additional
information in regard to the water issue.

Also, what was your point about food?  I stated that food is not a treatment for the 
diseases mentioned.  I did not state that food was delliberately withheld.  What were
you chortling about?  You did not "catch" me in a contradiction, as you apparently 
thought you did.  Apparently it would give you great joy to do so....I wonder why?

 Now you'd like me to believe you only meant 'solid food.'

What other food is there?  It is what I always meant.  By the way, I told you that these
people needed intravenous treatment, which means high concentrations of minerals,
electrolytes, and glucose.  Do you need further explanation?

 Kramer had water and food and medical supplies.
>  
>  Rather than make some effort to tend the sick, he forced them 
>  to haul corpses without food or water.  If they fell, they 
>  were beaten, shot, or left to die.
>  
This has in no way been proven.  You need to connect Kramer directly.
>> 
Concerning the children:

Methinks you should use your common sense.  The children were isolated by Kramer, 
as well as receivng extra rations of sweets and other goods.  Sorry to spoil your 
preconceived notions.....As a matter of fact, I am not sorry....a time comes when people
ought to confront the realities of a situation.  You have been taught to believe in the
pure evil of Germans for so many years, that it must hurt when your icons are shattered.
It was not I who misrepresented the facts to you.

Concerning Ehlert:

  Yes, i've read your post.  It does nothing to convince me that Kramer
>  was innocent.
>  
That is simply because you REFUSE to acknowledge the truth.  You are apparently
blinded by your own prejudice.  There is an old saying:  "Prejudice, which sees what
it pleases, cannot see what is plain."  Or perhaps more aptly put:  "We do not see things
as they are-we see things as we are."

rb
>  
>  


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:53 PST 1996
Article: 87965 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:11:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  SS-men "punished for killing Jews"?
  
  See what an SS-court had to say on the matter. It cannot
  be any more clear than this. Only a "revisionist" can
  fail to understand this document.
  
  Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against
  SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
  ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
  Free Press,  NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
   1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
  the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the
  Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should
  have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of
  Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should
  be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take
  part in the extermination of Jewry himself.
  
  
  
 An SS-court states that the Jews "have to be exterminated",
  and that various units were "set up especially for this purpose".
  
  But even this is not proof enough for our "revisionist
>  scholars"...
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
See what the Jewish Community had to say about this crime:


1888:  Breslau, Germany:  A crime was committed by one Max
 Bernstein, a 24 year old rabbinical candidate at the Talmudic
 college, against a 7 year old boy, Severin Hacke, whom Berstein
 had enticed into his room.  Blood was withdrawn from the boy’s 
gentials.  After the Judge’s verdict, Berstein made the following statement:

“The Bible and the talmud teach that the gravest of sins can only 
be atoned for through innocent blood.”  The Jewish community 
publicly branded Bernstein insane.




From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:54 PST 1996
Article: 87968 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:13:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Mr. Power, people would respect you more if you wouldn't play them for fools by
>  >distorting comments they are capable of reading for themselves.  And you still refer
>  >to me as a liar about the paques although this issue was settled ages ago.  You 
>  >spread slander, Mr. Power.  It will gain you no admirers except your little clique of
>  >friends.  The Sack book was indeed 100% accurate in that he faithfully recorded
>  >the admissions of his subjects.  Is that too difficult for you to understand without
>  >twisting it any further?--rb
>  
>  This is inane. How do you know Sack's fidelity to "the admissions of his
>  subjects"? He presents, without qualification, in his own narrative, 
>  material which he believes and which he intends for the reader to believe.
>  When he wants the reader to be aware that he is only passing on the 
>  comments of others--e.g., Schlomo Morel's denials of brutalizing camp
>  inmates, or one camp commander's claim to be a Roman Catholic--he makes
>  that very clear. The narrative which I excerpted was presented by Sack
>  as the truth. No twisting is involved.
>  
>  >Of course.  however, all of this will have to wait until I locate all the available
>  >research material.
>  
>  Oh, we're back to this bullshit. I'm afraid that at this point no one
>  takes your months-long promises in this regard seriously. Still lying.
>  
>>>>
I always have a suspicion of people who claim to speak for everyone.
They have bizarre complexes.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:55 PST 1996
Article: 88110 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Coming Soon to a Theatre Near You
Date: 19 Dec 1996 19:56:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
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>   Doc Tavish <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>

>  
>>>>
Actually, Doc, not all prisoners were tattooed, even at Auschwitz.  Some of those destined
for transit to another camp from Auschwitz were often held for a while and then shipped on.
Consequently, there was no need to tattoo.  Curiously, at some point during the course of the 
war, and this would have to be checked in Danuta Czech's book, the tattooing of prisoners 
stopped altogether at Auschwitz.  I have personally spoken to ex-inmates of Auschwitz, some of
who had a tattoo, and others who didn't.  There need be nothing sinister read into the fact that
some inmates were tattooed and others were not.  The members of the SS were also tattooed under
their arm.

rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:56 PST 1996
Article: 88113 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Of Course Blackmore Doesn't call folks names
Date: 18 Dec 1996 11:34:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 17 Dec 1996 09:42:31 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >>  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
>  
>  >>  >On Fri, 06 Dec 1996 17:16:39 GMT, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
>  >>  >Curtis) wrote:
>  
>  >>  >>But is any of this necessary if Blackmore claims he wants to further
>  >>  >>discussion?
>  
>  >>  >You're assuming Mr. Bellinger _wants_ to further discussion
>  >>  >instead of simply being in love with the sound of his keys
>  >>  >clacking.
>  
>  >>  I'd hate to assume anything of the cypher calling itself
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com and posting via sprynet. I was hoping that the
>  >>  pot-kettle-black stuff might stop and the useless one liners stop.
>  >>  Alas, Blackmore, unlike most of us cannot seem to learn.
>  
>  >>  >In the case of Mr. Bellinger, as I have stated before, the
>  >>  >problem is that his brain has never had a thought that his mouth
>  >>  >counldn't use. Unfortunatly, he rarely puts his brain in gear
>  >>  >before he puts his mouth in motion.
>  
>  >More insults and name calling from mr. Curtis.  How insipidly droll.
>  
>  Get your attributions straight. Those were my insults. But, I
>  only use them on you becasue you are so deserving of them.
>  Perhaps if you'd work at improving your integrity you'd catch
>  less of them.
>  
>  
>>>>
Perhaps if you would work at preserving your manners, you would
throw less of them.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Dec 24 08:25:57 PST 1996
Article: 88131 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 17 Dec 1996 11:36:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  The camp of Belzec was situated north-east of the Tomaszo'w to Lemberg
  [Lvov] road beyond the village of Belzec. As the camp needed a siding
  for the arriving transports the camp was built about 400 meters from
  Belzec station. The camp itself was divided into two sections: section
  1 and section 2. The siding led directly from Belzec station into
  section 2 of the camp, in which the undressing barracks as well as the
 gas installations and the burial field were situated...
  
  The gassing of Jews which took place in Belzec camp up till 1 August
  1942 can be divided into two phases. During the first series of
  experiments there were two to three transports consisting of four to
  six freight cars each holding twenty to forty persons. On the average
  150 Jews were delivered and killed per transport. At that stage the
  gassings were not yet part of a systematic eradication action but were
  carried out to test and study closely the camp's capacity and the
  technical problems involved in carrying out a gassing...
  
 At the beginning of May 1942 SS-Oberfuehrer Brack from the Fuehrer's
  chancellery suddenly came to Lublin. With Globocnik he discussed
  resuming the extermination of the Jews. Globocnik said he had too few
>  people to carry out this programme. Brack stated that the euthanasia
>  programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
>  detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
>  Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would
>  not be possible for the Einsatzgruppen to clear individual areas of
>  Jews and the people in the large ghettos of Warsaw and Lemberg by
>  shooting them, the decision had been taken to set up two further
>  extermination camps which would be ready by 1 August 1942, namely
>  Treblinka and Sobibor. The large-scale extermination programme 
>  [Vernichtungsaktion] was due to start on 1 August 1942.
>  
>  About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff
>  returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until
>  1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports
>  (as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars
>  containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two
>  of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth
>  had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a 
>  much larger capacity. It was here that the Jews from the rest of the
>  transport were gassed.
>  
>  During the first experiments and the first set of transports in the
>  second series of experiments bottled gas was still used for gassing;
>  however, for the last transports of the second series of experiments
>  the Jews were killed with the exhaust gases from a tank or lorry
>  engine which was operated by Hackenholt.
>  
>>>>
In 1803 the former rabbi Neofito published a sensational book in the
Moldavian language.  In it he gave details about the terrible Jewish
secret of the blood mystery.  This book was translated in 1843 into greek
and later in 1883 in Italian, under the title, "Il sangue cristiano nei riti ebraici
della moderna Sinagoga, "causing Jews to become very excited all over
the world.  On page 19 of this work the Jewish author Teofito confesses how he
was initiated into the knowledge of ritual murder........

"This secret of the blood is not known to all the Jews, but only to the Chakam
or the rabbis and the scholars, who therefore carry the title "Conservatori del
mistero del sangue"  (Conservators of the mystery of the blood)  They pass it
on by word of mouth to the Jewish fathers.  They in turn reveal it to their sones
who regard this as a great honor.  At the same time they make terrible threats of
punishment if one of them betrays the secret."

"When I was 13 years old my father took me aside, led me into a room,
where nobody could listen and after he described to me the hatred of 
Christians he taught me that God ordered the Christians to be slaughtered
and to collect their blood...."

There we have another confession, similar to those Mr. Keren loves to 
produce from time to time on alt revisionism.  The secret meeting, being 
led into an adjoining room..etc., all sound like Hoess's phoney version of
his secret meeting with Himmler.....in 1940-41? Mr. Teofito related his tale without
any torture or third degree methods.  Why would he lie about his own people?
Do you still think all those fairy tale confessions by Germans are truthful as well?
Or shall you wail "Forgery"!, neglectful of the fact that you constantly ridicule
revisionists for claiming the same.  What is good for the goose is not good for the
gander----or is it?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:03 PST 1996
Article: 88165 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'rblackmore' Lies Yet Again (Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer IV)
Date: 23 Dec 1996 02:36:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <59kr7o$7s9@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  # yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>  
>  ## He [Kramer] was in command of the camp.  He made no effort
>  ## to stop what the men under his command were doing.  They were
>  ## killing inmates even as the liberators entered the camp.
>  
>  # To bad the "liberators" (who were there by negotiation of the
>  # camp's early surrender at Kramer's instigation) did not report
>  # any such thing.
>  
>  Of course they did. You have the book "The Belsen Trial", right?
>  Look at page 34, the testimony of Brigadier Glyn Hughes.
>  
>  You will *not* get away with these lies, nazi-boy. Didn't you
>  learn this already? I have the book, and I can check what you
>  write. So be careful.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Without getting too deeply into a discussion on this, I am not sure that
I wrote the above comment.  These are copies of posts which may or
may not have been written by different people, myself included.  As a
matter of fact I am familiar with the testimony that Hungarians, transferred
to the camp only days previously, had been shooting at the inmates.  They
were not part of the original staff and were quite independent and rebellious.
It seems that they were never charged for their offenses and others were left
to should the blame.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:04 PST 1996
Article: 88169 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:02:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
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>   schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : >  >  What is the tosephta and how does it differ from the Talmud?-rb
>  
>  : Well, then, does this mean that they are generally considered as a part of the
>  : Talmud?  And thank you for illuminating the subject.  I will 
>  : certainly look for this book.--rb
>  
>  Actually, Mr. Edeiken was making a common error.  The "tosephta" and
>  the "tosafot" are not the same thing.  Although I believe that 
>  Steinsaltz does discuss the tosephta in one of his books about the
>  Talmud (maybe he mentions it in "The Essential Talmud.")
>  
>  -----
>  Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>  Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>  Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>  -----
>   "an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"
>  
>>>>
Well, again I ask:  What exactly IS the tosephta?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:04 PST 1996
Article: 88177 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Coming soon to a theatre near you---Juana Bormann
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:36:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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I said "Coming Soon"....why did you bother to open this thread, silly?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:05 PST 1996
Article: 88178 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:17:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <59mst9$33r@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # Back to cases.  If corpses are rotting in the water, our
>  # brilliant counselor says, take out the bodies and the water
>  # is pure.
>  
>  Stop being an idiot. The corpses were not in the river's water,
>  which the SS could have easily supplied to the inmates (who in
>  the meanwhile were dying of thirst). The corpses were in water
>  basins in the camp, and they probably got there because the
>  SS-men murdered people and threw them into the basins.
>  
>  The Brits have immediately established running water in the camp,
>  using only equipment they found there. The SS could have done
>  this, had they cared about the inmates.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Danny you are wrong.  Re-read my post and the testimony.  For the first week
water came from units attached to the British army field kitchens and supplies.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:06 PST 1996
Article: 88183 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi asks about the Talmud (Sara?)
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:32:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <59j2nh$hr6@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59igkq$25@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>  >  Well, then, does this mean that they are generally considered as a part of the
>  >>  >  Talmud?  And thank you for illuminating the subject.  I will certainly look for this
>  >>  >  book.--rb
>  >>  
>  >>  	No more than the published opinions of the Supreme Court are 
>  >>  considered part of the Constitution.
>  >>  
>  >>  	Steinsaltz's book is published by Random House.
>  >>  
>  >>  	--YFE 	
>  >>  
>  >Well, you gave an evasive answer to my question regarding the Talmud, but
>   thanks anyway.-rb
>  
>  That's a pretty churlish response to a perfectly straightforward
>  answer to your question. I guess it doesn't pay to treat a lying
>  asshole like yourself politely.
>  
>>>>
You're such a girl, Miss Flower.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:07 PST 1996
Article: 88190 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore--the *real* Blackmore
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:06:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <59g6bm$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > >  Then if this is indeed the case, recent statements that troll-Joseph
>  > >  Bellinger has made under the guise of tutu101 have revealed him to be,
>  > >  without a doubt, an anti-semite and a nazi apologist (not that there was
>  > >  much doubt in the first place.)
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > Only in your sad and tortured mind, Raj.....
>  
>  Speaking of sad and tortured, Mr. Bellinger, why did you to respond to my
>  post twice - once as tutu101 and the second time as rblackmore ?
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Why do you ask?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:07 PST 1996
Article: 88201 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:33:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <59j2qi$hr6@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59ig5n$qrk@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >The only person misleading them is you--and you seem to have done a good job of
>  >misleading yourself ae well.  When I do post the material, and I will, your knickers will
>  >drop of their own accord.....rb
>  
>  This continuing disturbing obsession with another man's "knickers
>  dropping" from one who accuses other posters of anal fixations....
>  
>>>>
You better speak to your "buddy", Mark Van Alstine about anal fixations.
It seems that is one of his obsessions, along with the size of men's penises.
So you admit you are a man who wears knickers?  Aha! I thought so!


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:08 PST 1996
Article: 88211 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 23 Dec 1996 03:45:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  >>>>>
>  >>  >Thanks for the ammuntion, Mark.  Your name calling does serve a purpose
>  >>  >other than showing you to be a hateful asshole.  I am keeping track of all of it.
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>  And what did you just do? Don't you see the hypocrisy of calling
>  >>  someone a name-caller and then doing it yourself in the same breath?
>  >>  
>  >>  Quite hilarious.
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>  Mike Curtis 
>  >>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  >>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >I also have saved references where you have called me names as well.
>  >Not so hilarious now, is it?--rb
>  
>  
>  Well, I rarely find much of your stuff of value. So I rarely save it.
>  But go ahead and trot out the material from this newsgroup. I'll be
>  happy to cnsider what I've said. I also hope you are honest enough to
>  present this material in context and without your own embellishment.
>  
>   
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I am only interested in posting where you have called me names, as I do
not think it fair for you to represent yourself and your associates as God's
little angels.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:09 PST 1996
Article: 88212 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belling sees trap, dives in
Date: 24 Dec 1996 21:53:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

(filth)
>  
>>>>
You need professional help Mark.  Go get it, before all that shit inside of you comes oozing out through
your nostrils.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:09 PST 1996
Article: 88219 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Good Old Lies, pt. 1
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:02:01 GMT
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The Good Old Days--Photograph

On page 55 in the book, "The Good Old Days" is a photograph
 with the caption:  "Lithuania, 1941.  Male and female Jews are
 made to dig a mass grave in a woodland clearing.  In the foreground,
 Jews who have been shot."  So runs the caption.  I only wish to
 point out a few obvious facts:

1.  It is impossible to tell whether the people in the photo are Jews.
2.  It is impossible to tell whether they are digging a grave.
3.  It is impossible to tell whether anyone has been shot, although
 there does appear to be a number of corpses.  However, the bodies
 are scattered in a semi-circle of sorts and it is almost impossible to 
determine what might have happened to cause their deaths.
4.  There are no German soldiers in the photo.


The Good Old Days   --The "Jaeger Report"


The so-called Jaeger report may or may not be genuine, IMO.  One
 would have to examine the post-war statements as well as the trial
 records pertaining to Karl Jaeger, the alleged author of the report.  
While much of the material seems damaging, it would be a mistake
 to rush to judgment based upon the scanty material the authors have
 presented for out inspection.  There is much in the report that would
 seem contrived, or coincidental, such as the names of two alleged
 perpetrators of crimes against the Jew:  Jaeger and Hamann.  Jaeger
 means "hunter" in German, and Hamann, of course was the Persian
 who wanted to exterminate the Jews in the book of Esther.  Either this
 is a prophecy come true, or it was God’s  way  of  exacting a  terrible 

 and  sardonic punishment  upon  the innocent.
The authenticity of the report could only have been
 commented upon by one person--Jaeger himself, but
 also coincidentally, he committed "suicide" while in custody in 1959.


The Good Old Days  --  Toegel, Kiebach, and Trill


The authors of "Good Old Days" reproduce in this section
 a number of brief statements attributed to 3 ex-Security 
Police officers.  This I find to be as disturbing as the events
 described.  The statements were obviously taken out of
 context, and there would be at least a dozen questions I
 would wish to direct to the 3 ex-policemen.  Prima facie,
 the statements appear to be quite damaging, yet experience
 tells us that not everything is always as it seems....Undoubtedly
 executions took place.  My concern is to know the full particulars. 
 With the exception of Trill mentioning the execution of 15 or 20 Jews,
 none of the other statements mention who was being shot
 and why. and that could make all the difference in the world.  -rb






From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:10 PST 1996
Article: 88221 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:16:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <59pknm$ehc@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59nbc6$bu6@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Let me ask you this:  Are you saying that she deserved to die even though
>  >she never gassed people, and assumed they may have been gassed based
>  >upon rumors which circulated in the camp by prisoners?   You seem to be of the
>  >opinion that a 21 year old girl should have had her life taken on this basis?
>  
>  Geez, the poor innocent had only been participating in the mass murder
>  of hundreds of innocents. And they were only Jews, after all. Aside
>  from that, and various gratuitous cruelties toward helpless prisoners,
>  hey, she was a saint.
>  
>>>>
She wasn't a saint, but she was innocent of the charges preferred against
her and you do not have the moral guts to admit it.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:11 PST 1996
Article: 88222 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:17:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   10@11.12 (Doc Benway) writes:
>  On 23 Dec 1996 20:24:22 -0500, karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles
>  Power) wrote:
>  
>  >rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >
>  >>Let me ask you this:  Are you saying that she deserved to die even though
>  >>she never gassed people, and assumed they may have been gassed based
>  >>upon rumors which circulated in the camp by prisoners?   You seem to be of the
>  >>opinion that a 21 year old girl should have had her life taken on this basis?
>  >
>  >Geez, the poor innocent had only been participating in the mass murder
>  >of hundreds of innocents. And they were only Jews, after all. Aside
>  >from that, and various gratuitous cruelties toward helpless prisoners,
>  >hey, she was a saint.
>  
>  	And you truly believe that if she had not "participated" then it
>  would not have happened.  You are very strange. 
>  
>  	Out of curiosity, when are all of those "confessed" SKs going to be
>  hung?  
>  
>  =====
>  If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
>  ---
>  Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.
>  
>>>>
Haven't you heard?  It wasn't their fault....I wonder of that is why Dr, Kastner
was murdered in Israel?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:12 PST 1996
Article: 88223 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re Irma Grese By Special Request
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:21:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <59ioqp$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  
  ## In
  ##
  ## http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/  ## Bormann.jpg  ##
  ## There's the photo of another of the SS-women from Auschwitz,
  ## Juana Bormann.
  
  # Right, Dan....And I suppose the photos were taken at a
  # Hollywood Glamour Studio and the ladies were attended to by
  # beauticians before the photos you posted were taken........
  
  What's your problem? You think SS-woman Juana Bormann was ugly?
  You think this is why I posted her photograph?
  
 Actually, I assumed you had a crush on her.... 
  
    # Would you like me to start scanning and posting photos of Jewish
   # people from the pages of the Stuermer?  Continue with this little
  # game and I will do it--rb
 
  You're trying to scare me, nazi-boy, or what?

 Does this scare you, Dan?--rb
 
  Does Juana Bormann excite _you_ Mr. Belling? Does anti-Semitic cartoons
  abou "Jewish Ritual Murder" excite you as well? 
  
 It must, as there is little other reason for an anti-Semitic lying scumbag
  Nazi apologist, such as yourself, to post such self-damming things....


>>>>
No, what excites me is the pleasure of seeing you eat that crow pie
you had so carefully prepared for me.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:12 PST 1996
Article: 88224 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:22:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


 Plebian.
  
  Cretin.
  

More of Mark's inspired scholarship.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:13 PST 1996
Article: 88226 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:33:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>  wrote:
>  
>  > rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  > 


>>>>
Paul claimed his authority to implement these changes from Jesus himself,
whom Paul claimed appeared to him in a vision, as Moses once saw his 
buring bush....but you knew this already.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:14 PST 1996
Article: 88241 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:57:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Punished? They were DECORATED for participating in the mass murder.
>  
>  Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of
>  concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14
>  November 1941
>  [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
>  Press, 1984, p. 99]
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------
>  The Commandant's office has submitted to date two lists recommending
>  the conferment of the Kreigverdienstkreuz [war service cross]. In
>  both of these appear SS personnel who participated in executions. We
>  herewith request confirmation as to whether these names should be
>  listed once again in the roll currently under preparation. Further
>  requested is information as to whether in the recommendation lists
>  under "reasons and comments of immediate superior" there should be
>  specified "execution, i.e., special action" or whether a general,
>  routine reason should be given.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
What were the circumstances of these alleged executions?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:14 PST 1996
Article: 88267 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:58:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Can you explain why in the book "German Crimes in Poland", it is
>  >expressly stated that the Germans had not exterminated the Poles or
>  >Russians, but only the Jews, and that undoubtedly the Poles and 
>  >Russians would have been the next on their list had they won the war?--rb
>  
>  Can you supply a precise quote, rather than your probably twisted
>  paraphrase? Then I for one will be happy to take a stab at explaining
>  it. I just don't want to waste my time explaining your misunderstandings.
>  
>>>>
I have posted some of this recently but I don't remember where.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:15 PST 1996
Article: 88274 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row'
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:46:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl.
  He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports
  than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to
  wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport
  had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a
  result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense
  heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on
  the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka
  and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr.  Eberl was no
  longer there...
  
  For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and
  then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The
  two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine
  branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The
  same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the
  gas chambers...
  
  Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there
  were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how
>  many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers
>  could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice
>  that number...
>  
>  Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be
>  shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The
>  commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be
>  here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also
>  present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had
>  to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after
>  the occupants had been ordered to get out.
>  
>  When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word
>  with them.  They were told something to the effect that they were a
>  resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they
>  would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet
>  and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.
>  
>  Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area.
>  The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The
>  women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the
>  gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand
>  in their jewellery and valuables..
>  
>>>>
1401 Breisgau  The Jews were charged with "planning to exterminate
 Christendom by poisoning the air"--without doubt the earliest reference 
to the use of poison gas.




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:16 PST 1996
Article: 88277 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wetzel Write Lohse About the 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Date: 25 Dec 1996 01:00:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 44
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
  [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
  Press, 1984, p. 70]
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
  Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
  Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
  the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
  first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
  apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
  than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
  send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
  Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
  Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
  question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
  precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
  contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
  your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
  dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
  that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
  Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
  office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
  information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
  Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
>  [Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
>  evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
>  fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
>  present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
>  without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
>  those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
>  to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
>  mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
>  procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
>  fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
>  the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
>  apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
>  to any further measures you take.
>  
>>>>
At Breisach in Breisgau it was discovered that all the Jews of
 Strasbourg, Basel, Freiburg, and Breisach were in league and
 had jointly hired agents to deposit the poisons, which the Jews
 of Basel supplied, in the wells.  --rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:17 PST 1996
Article: 88278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:57:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <59pu5s$kgt@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32bf4ae6.811935@news.inetport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd17-011.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  >>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >>  >
>  >>  > She makes no secret of it. She beat them, and when she came on
>  >>  >>  to Belsen can you doubt that she carried on in precisely the same way?
>  >>  >>  
>  >>  >>  Mike Curtis
>  >>  >>>>>
>  >>  >And you maintain that a 21 year old girl deserved death for striking malingerers
>  >>  >and people who stole food portions from other inmates?  Sad, even for you.-rb
>  >>  
>  >>  Actually, she was 22.
>  >>  
>  >>  She was charged with two charges, btw. She mostly convicted herself.
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >That's funny. I felt that she most exonerated herself.--rb
>  
>  Then show the group how you arrive at these so far unsubstantiated
>  opinions by using actual source material.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
That was already done.  Only stubborn people without the guts to
admit an injustice was done would think otherwise, IMO.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:17 PST 1996
Article: 88313 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser Testifies About Belzec Death Camp
Date: 22 Dec 1996 00:08:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <59hu6e$fco@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:


>  Mr. McFee is rolling on the floor in a fit of laughter at the moment and
>  can't type right now. If you'll wait a bit and let him catch his breath,
>  I'm sure he'll get back to you. 
>  


>  
>>>>
He must have finally met you in person, Mark.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:18 PST 1996
Article: 88314 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 22 Dec 1996 00:14:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <59huhp$hac@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

rblackmore writes:

 One thing I am not is sexually repressed.  
 
  Prove it. };-> 

Are you gay, Mark?  You do have a compulsion which we all know about....rb
  
   Don't project your shortcomings on to me.  
  
  I wouldn't think of it! You're far too "short" already! 

Apparently you are gay.--rb
  
   I do not have a fixation on people who have been dead for over
   fifty years....
  
  Really? Then why do you keep trying to deny that a bunch of dead Nazis
  killed 12 million innocent people? 

Because its not true?--rb
  
   ...but I do dislike the fact that an innocent person was lynched by
   prejudiced and hateful people like yourself.
>  
>  Really? And whom might this innocent person be? Your sadistic Nazi
>  sex-kitten Irma? 

You have a limpid imagination, mark.--rb
>  
>  Imagine that. Executing a person for taking part in the torture and mass
>  murder of innocent people!

Who are you referring to--Jews who confessed and were convicted and 
executed for ritual murder?--rb
>  
>  > >  A Freudiuan slip perhaps? Or simply Mr. Belling's projecting yet another
>  > >  of Nazi fantasies? Either way, it simply highlights what a depravced and
>  > >  repulsive person Mr. Belling truly is. 
>  > 
>  > Spare us your insane drivel.  
>  
>  Wrong person. Mr. McTavish is in charge of insane drivel. 
>  
>  > Go tell it to the marines.  
>  
>  Okaaaay... But when they find out what _you've_ been up to.... 

Tell them about your ass fixation first.--rb
>  
>  > You are getting absolutley nowhere pursuing this line of nonsense,
>  whether you 
>  > realize it.or not.--rb
>  
>  On the contrary, you've once more done a _splendid_ job of evidencing that
>  you're a lying scumbag Nazi apologist. Makes _my_ task much easier,
>  thanks! 

You are really sad.  ROTFL!--rb

I really am!!!-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:19 PST 1996
Article: 88316 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Runs Into Technical Difficulties
Date: 22 Dec 1996 00:08:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <59hu55$fco@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gl53$dd9@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  > >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > >  
>  > >  : The whole quotation is obviously contrived.--rb
>  > >  
>  > >  The trouble with the obvious is that it is often not true.
>  > >  The trouble with the truth is that it is often not obvious.
>  > >  
>  > >  d.A.
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > You fail to address the point.
>  
>  While you simply fail to dress.
>  
>

>  
>>>>
That was so stupid, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:19 PST 1996
Article: 88317 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 22 Dec 1996 00:07:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # Victims?  Roll call was to establish how many people
>  # were present.
>  
>  Mr. "rblackmore" seems to forget, yet again, that his
>  beloved Irma Grese (last seen dangling from a rope
>  in Germany), had testified that roll calls were also
>  held to select victims who were to be murdered in the
>  gas chambers. He also "forgot" that she said one of
>  her jobs in Auschwitz-Birkenau was to chase the
>  victims who tried to escape from these roll calls,
>  bring them back, and beat them up.
>  
>  But, really, I don't think he "forgot" that. I think
>  he knows this very well. And that this is what makes
>  him love and admire Irma Grese so much.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>Danny, you have been quiet lately.  no confessions to post this week?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:20 PST 1996
Article: 88319 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 22 Dec 1996 00:06:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gij5$cap@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

For the record, i will reply to this sometime this evening.  I look forward to it.
It should only take a minute or two,--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:21 PST 1996
Article: 88332 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Of Course Blackmore Doesn't call folks names
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:03:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On 18 Dec 1996 11:34:40 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >Perhaps if you would work at preserving your manners, you would
>  >throw less of them.--rb
>  
>  Speaking of manners, how do you explain your statements that you
>  are not a bigot with the following:
>  
>  Oh, I know. You didn't compose it, you merely passed it on.
>  
>  Sorry, it doesn't quite cut it. ("Honest, Dad, I'm not a bigot.
>  Sure, I dress up in a sheet and stand around a burning cross with
>  the boys but I'm just having some fun. Some of the others may
>  mean it but not me. After all, I didn't light the cross.")

So this is your fantasy of me?  Quite funny....and quite erroneous.-rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:21 PST 1996
Article: 88333 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question...
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:05:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <59gjpl$cap@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   e0191187@brookes.ac.uk writes:
>  >  Why is Al Baron in jail?
>  >  
>  >  Darren Green,
>  >  Oxford Brookes University.
>  
>  	Sine you are closer to the source than most of us, why don't you check.  
>  You might start with the government office that assigns counsel to indigents and 
>  locate his solictor/barrister.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>  
>>>>
That was cruel and vicious, Yale.  And you are supposed to be religious?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:22 PST 1996
Article: 88337 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Grabner Ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening'
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:39:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <59pt4l$k83@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>   From the statement of Hans Stark, registrar of new arrivals, Auschwitz:
>  [Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 255].
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
>  At another, later gassing -- also in autumn 1941 -- Grabner* ordered
>  me to pour Zyklon B into the opening because only one medical orderly
>  had shown up. During a gassing Zyklon B had to be poured through both
>  openings of the gas-chamber room at the same time. This gassing was
>  also a transport of 200-250 Jews, once again men, women and children.
>  As the Zyklon B -- as already mentioned -- was in granular form, it
>  trickled down over the people as it was being poured in. They then
>  started to cry out terribly for they now knew what was happening to
>  them. I did not look through the opening because it had to be closed
>  as soon as the Zyklon B had been poured in. After a few minutes there
>  was silence. After some time had passed, it may have been ten to
>  fifteen minutes, the gas chamber was opened. The dead lay
>  higgledy-piggedly all over the place. It was a dreadful sight.
>  
>     * Maximillian Grabner, Head of Political Department, Auschwitz
>  
>>>>
1759  In the town of Voislavitza near Lublin, the jewish community was
 accused of the murder of a Christian boy.  Five elders were brought to
 trial.  The rabbi committed suicide while in jail, the other four were
 convicted and executed.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:23 PST 1996
Article: 88338 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'A gassing experiment was carried out'
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:35:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 57
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Testimony of SS Scharfuhrer Erich Fuchs, in the Sobibor-Bolender trial, 
  Dusseldorf 
  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 31-32]. 
  --------------------------------------------------------------
   ....We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at 
  least 200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation 
  and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube.
  
  I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the
  ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The
  chemist, who I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with
  measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas.
  
  Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out.  If my memory
  serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas
  chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place
  close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the
  above mentioned SS members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the
  women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in
  motion. The motor functioned first in neutral.  Both of us stood by
  the motor and switched from "Neutral" (Freiauspuff) to "Cell" (Zelle),
  so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber. At the suggestion of the
  chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite speed so that it was
>  unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later
>  the thirty to forty women were dead.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
In Berlin the Jews Salomon, Jacob, Aaron, Levi Isaac, Rabbi Mosch and the
butcher 
Jacob were accused of buying a three or four year old Christian boy for 10
florins from
a stranger, laying him on a table in a cellar and puncturing him with needles
in the large
blood rich veins until he was finally slaughtered by the butcher Jacob.  An
enormous
trial began, and eventually a hundred Jews who were involved in the crime
were locked
in the Berlin prison.  They partially admitted to having bought Christian
children from
strangers, stabbing them, draining their blood, and drinking the blood in
case of illness
or preserving it with tomatoes, ginger, and honey.  No fewer than 41 of the
accused
Jews were sentenced to death by burning after their confession.  All the
other Jews
were banished from the Mark of Brandenburg.  (Richard Mun:  "The Jews in
Berlin."




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:24 PST 1996
Article: 88363 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Let her lie, why do you care?"
Date: 23 Dec 1996 19:56:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <59mo50$r5c@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59l3ot$23h@news.enter.net>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >  >   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  
>  >  >  We all have read so many of your lies, nothing you write means doodly 
>  >  >  squat. We all know you are just another anti-jewish, anti allied 
>  >  >  pro-Nazi dipstick. Get a life, pal. 
>  
>  
>  >  If you would take a little time to do somw research and reading you might
>  >  learnsomething.
>  
>  	One of things he will learn is how you distort and misrepresent.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
This coming from the "King" of distortion himself!  The reader only be made 
aware of one fact----Mr. Edeikin is an ATTORNEY.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:24 PST 1996
Article: 88381 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kube Reports His Work: 10 Weeks, 55,000 Murdered
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:50:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <59ptp5$kgt@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Report from Kube, General Commissioner of White Ruthenia,
>  to Gauleiter Lohse, Reich Commissioner for the Ostland,
>  31 July 1942
>  [Quoted from "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg
>   Military Tribunals", Vol. IV, pages 191-193]
>   ---------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  During detailed consultations with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner 
>  and the extremely capable Chief of the SD, 
>  SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we found that we had 
>  liquidated approximately 55,000 Jews in White Ruthenia during 
>  the past 10 weeks. In the Minsk-Land area, the Jewry was completely 
>  exterminated without endangering the allocation of labor in any way. 
>  In the prevailing Polish Lida area, 16,000 Jews, in Slonim 8,000
>  Jews, etc., were liquidated. 
>  
>  [...]
>  
>  In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and
>  29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews - mainly old people, women,
>  and children - the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most 
>  of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin
>  in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
1247  Valreas, France  A Jew confessed that a dead chilod found
 with wounds on its forehead, hands and feet, had been crucified
 in accordance with a Jewish custom to celebrate communion on 
Easter Saturday with the blood of Christian children.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:25 PST 1996
Article: 88382 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Let her lie, why do you care?"
Date: 25 Dec 1996 00:52:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <59ptrr$kgt@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59ojvs$rgl@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd17-011.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  In article <59hn66$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >In a discussion concerning the guilt or innocence of Kramer, former
>  >commandant of Belsen, Danny Keren referred to unsupported statements
>  >attributed to the ex-commandant by former camp Aufseherin Herta Ehlert,
>  >a petty thief and bully.  Ehlert swore that Kramer had said of the inmates
>  
>  'Unsupported?'  
>  
>  Her comments were certianly supported by Harold Le Druillence, 
>  and Fritz Klein, to name just two. 
>  
>  - Brian
>  
>  
>>>>
These alleged comments were not heard by any other witnesses.  it is
Kramer's word versus theirs.  And who knows?  perhaps Kramer was
tired of their pestering and so on, and just was having a bad hair day.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:26 PST 1996
Article: 88394 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:51:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
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On 24 Sep 1996 02:10:18 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>  >>  >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  
>>  >>  >  	Sure.  First you give them water.
> 
>>  >>  The water with the corpses floating in it?
>  
>>  >	Gee, first you take the corpses out.
>  
>>  	And here an example of the lack of education of folks in pre-law.  You 
>heard it
>>  here folks all you have to do to make water polluted to rotting corpes is 
>remove
>>  the corpses and it is as pure as French designer water.  
>	Since the British used the water and no-one was harmed by it; your 
>statement that it wa polluted is ridciulous.
	Back to cases.  If corpses are rotting in the water, our brilliant counselor
says, take out the bodies and the water is pure.  What next, counselor?  Sip
around the turds and be safe?  
	Hey, genius!  Tell us more.  
 
=====
Read the information holohuggers fear
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:26 PST 1996
Article: 88397 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For Doc Tavish--Kramer IV
Date: 21 Dec 1996 21:54:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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On 22 Sep 1996 17:33:48 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>>  >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

>>  >  	Sure.  First you give them water.
>  
>>  The water with the corpses floating in it?

>	Gee, first you take the corpses out.

	And here an example of the lack of education of folks in pre-law.  You heard it
here folks all you have to do to make water polluted to rotting corpes is remove
the corpses and it is as pure as French designer water.  

	And this is some of the best grasp of reality that is current among holohuggers.


	Can anyone believe the complete ignorance of this holohugger?  
  
>>  >  	The water was available. 
>  
>>  The only water available was in the river, which Kramer thought was polluted.
>>  There indeed was not enough water in the camp to supply the thousands of ill 
>people
>>  jammed in there, which was not Kramer's fault.

>	The British restored water in hours.  Kramer could not do it days.

	You mean the British who connected the water station to one of their portable
generators?  
  
>>  >  	Second you give them food.Food was available.  Kramer did not do this.

>>  No.  Most of these peole were ill with gastro-enteritis.  Food aggravates this
>>  condition.  Also, the food was NOT available for these great numbers.
>  

>	The British managed to do it within hours.

	We have been over that.  Even a holohugger posted it.  The Brits lost 40,000 to
disease in the first week of liberation.  
  
>>  >  	Medical help was available.  Kramer did not do this.
>  
>>  Not true,  The attempt was made.  Even the British had problems saving lives,
>>  and they were better epuipped than kramer by a long shot.

>	No attempt was made.  Kramer did not take even the most basic public 
>health precautions.

	You mean like keeping rotting corpses out of the river?  Of course that does not
address all of the normal raw sewage in it.  Or do you think the German EPA had
imposed sewage treatment plants on the country?  

>>  >  	Fourth  you tell the sadisitc gang of thugs you command to stop killing 
>>  >  people. Kramer did not do this.
>  
>>  Where is the order that he told them to kill people?  Also, some of these guards 
>were
>>  not under his direct command, having been sent there during the last few 
>weeks of the
>>  war.

>	That is not the question.  He was in command of the camp.  He made 
>no effort to stop what the men under his command were doing.  They were killing 
>inmates even as the liberators entered the camp.

	To bad the "liberators" (who were there by negotiation of the camp's early
surrender at Kramer's instigation) did not report any such thing.  Beyond that,
nice try.  

 
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
http://www.codoh.com/
http://www.webcom.com/~zundel




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:27 PST 1996
Article: 88435 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:35:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <59pls2$ehc@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # You wouldn't need to guide me, Mr. Power.  I am quite
>  # familiar with the Bible.  And if this was the law which
>  # Jesus said neither jot nor title would pass away, why
>  # was circumcision done away with?
>  
>  Not because of Jesus. Wasn't it Paul who did away with 
>  most of the Biblical laws, after Jesus died?
>  
>  As I recall from some reading I did on the history of
>  Christianity, in the beginning everyone who wanted to become
>  a Christian had to first convert to Judaism, and strictly
>  follow Biblical law. Only then could he join the Christian
>  sect (which, do not forget, was a sect within Judaism).
>  
>  Paul later did away with the Biblical laws; possibly, for 
>  purely pragmatic reasons.
>  
>  Who should be named the "father of Christianity"? Jesus or 
>  Paul? Serious comments are welcome; I think this is an 
>  interesting topic.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Jesus said:  "I am the NEW and everlasitng covenant...", and this
was not without symbolism on his part, when he stated "I am" (That I am).


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:28 PST 1996
Article: 88440 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:25:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59g7ul$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > >  
>  > >  > >  I merely comment that the remarks are really insignificant
>  > >  > >and do not lend support to your claims that Jews were being gassed.
>  > >  > 
>  > >  > Sour grapes.
>  > >  
>  > >  Or, considering the trck record of Mr. "pimple on a duck's butt,"
>  > >  delusions of grandeur. 
>  > >  
>  > >  > There's so much hand waving going on here that I must take my leave.
>  > >  
>  > >  Indeed! Considering all the furious hand-waving by Mr. Belling, it might
>  > >  cause one to assume that a rodent crawled up his ass and died.... 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > >  Mark
>  > 
>  > 
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > Thanks for the ammuntion, Mark.  Your name calling does serve a purpose
>  > other than showing you to be a hateful asshole.  I am keeping track of
>  all of it.
>  
>  Oooh, I'm just quaking in my boots over that. It still doesn't change the
>  fact one iota that the only product of your "mental" activities are
>  miasmic Nazi brain farts....
>

>>>>
You have a bizarre anal compulsion, Mark....at what age did it develop?
Did your mother ever tell you that you ate your own excrement as an infant?
There is something deeply Freudian in your neurotic compulsions and obcessions-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:29 PST 1996
Article: 88441 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:26:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <59ho6i$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>>>>
>  >Thanks for the ammuntion, Mark.  Your name calling does serve a purpose
>  >other than showing you to be a hateful asshole.  I am keeping track of all of it.
>  
>  
>  And what did you just do? Don't you see the hypocrisy of calling
>  someone a name-caller and then doing it yourself in the same breath?
>  
>  Quite hilarious.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I also have saved references where you have called me names as well.
Not so hilarious now, is it?--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:29 PST 1996
Article: 88447 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'There was no longer any escape'
Date: 24 Dec 1996 23:30:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 50
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References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
>  [Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>  Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
>  smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
>  get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
>  Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
>  the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
>  one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
>  into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
>  the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
>  confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
>  to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
>  extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
>  led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
>  any escape.
>  
>>>>
The confession of Emanuel of Genoa:

Emanuel, son of the doctor Solomon of Genoa, testified to the martyrdom 
of two Christian children after he had converted to Christianity.  One of
 these cases was reported second hand.  He related how Master Simon
 from Ancona, a doctor by profession, had beheaded a small child.  The
 child’s head was then dragged outside into the street by a dog.  Officials
 followed the blood-stains and discovered the child’s body in the doctor’s
 house, lying in a tub.  The doctor, however, escaped across the sea.  

Another murder Emanuel testifies to witnessing personally in Saona, a
 province of the Republic of Genoa.  He stated:

My father led me into a house where eight Jews were assembled.  
They took a sacred oath that they would rather suffer death or kill
 themselves before they would confess to the deed they were going 
to commit.  After that they brought in a 2 year old christian child.  One
 of the conspirators held its right arm, another the left arm, and the third, 
his head, so that he formed the shape of a cross.  The fourth assassin
 had a long, sharp, pointed needle or scalpel in his hand.  With it he 
stabbed the child from his stomach to his heart.  he quickly pulled the
 needle back and stabbed once more so that the blood began to flow
 freely from the wounds into a basin beneath.  This was repeated until
 the child died.  They then threw the child’s body into a secret chamber..
..”  Emmanuel later made his full confession of having witnessed and 
participated in this crime before the Master Garsias of Boamonn, Bishop
 of Lucena, a notary pubic, and others.  His story was reportedly confirmed
 by documents preserved by the Franciscan monks.




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:30 PST 1996
Article: 88459 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:29:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <59invt$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59i1ja$ahj@news.enter.net>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >  On 24 Sep 1996 02:10:18 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:


>  	But that does not even come close to satisfying the basic point.  The 
>  allegation that there was no potable water available is pure fabrication.  The 
>  British took over the camp and supplied potable water using the equipment 
>  available.  You can wiggle and squirm all you want.  The only difference between 
>  the murderous Kramer and the British was that the British did not want to see 
>  innocent people die.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
I have to ask if you are so dense that you cannot read English, allegedly 
being an attorney and all.  What the testimony clearly states is that for the
first week, water was supplied to the camp by British field units, which traveled
with the british army.  A week later, water was pumped it. However, it did need to
be filtered.  There are some waters which you cannot simply boil and then ingest.
Obviously you haven't done much camping--Belsen camping or otherwise.--rb



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:31 PST 1996
Article: 88493 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:02:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <59j0up$ham@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59hhsn$al@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:


>  Now, can you be honest enough to post, clearly and unambiguously, that
>  you know of no instance in which camp staff were punished by Nazi 
>  authorities for mistreatment of Jews? Or will you continue your little
>  wriggle to avoid the question and mislead readers of this newsgroup?
>  
>>>>
Stop wiggling your behind and pull your knickers back up.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:31 PST 1996
Article: 88494 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:54:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <59ipf7$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59hsj0$8v6@news.enter.net>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >  # I already clarified this in a previous post.  I did not
>  >  # have the article in front of me when I posted.
>    
>  >  Oh, poor baby. Every time one of "rblackmore's"
>  >  lies is exposed, he has some lame excuse.
>    
>  >  "I did not have the article in front of me when
>  >  I posted"...
>    
>  >  What a pathetic little liar this "rblackmore" is.
>  
>  	Nor is he very imaginative.  This was the same excuse he used when he 
>  posted that the placque at Auschwitz stated 4,000,000 "Jews" claiming that he had 
>  a picture which proved it.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
Yale, your comments are as stale as your brain.  You aren't even a
challenge anymore.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:32 PST 1996
Article: 88495 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:49:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <59ip63$bp8@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>

>  
>  	Apparently you command of English is fairly poor.  The Poles called 
>  the Poles "Poles."  Clearly one of the reasons they  inflated the figure was to 
>  maximize the appearance of Polish suffering.  "Auschwitz without Jews" means 
>  exactly that.
>  
>  	Nor is it a quibble.  The fact is you lied and did so obnoxiously.  And 
>  have been even more obnoxious about it since you lie was exposed.
>  
>  	--YFE
>  
>>>>
Yale, you are full of it.  In the book published by the same agency entitled
"German crimes in Poland" it is specifically stated that the Poles were NOT
part of those the Nazis allegedly tried to exterminate, but that they would have
been the next. Did you say you are a lawyer?  Public defender?  God save us.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:33 PST 1996
Article: 88522 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question...
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:04:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  e0191187@brookes.ac.uk asks:
>  
>  # Why is Al Baron in jail?
>  
>  How do you know he's in jail, BTW? From reading this
>  newsgroup? Or did you hear about it from another source?
>  
>  Do you know Baron? I kind of feel sorry for the guy. He
>  really, really, needs help.
>  
>  posted/e-mailed.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Look who's talking....Mr. Necrophilia.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:33 PST 1996
Article: 88523 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 11:58:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <59gjdu$cap@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:

 She makes no secret of it. She beat them, and when she came on
>  to Belsen can you doubt that she carried on in precisely the same way?
>  
>  Mike Curtis
>  
>        Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>        Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?  
>        European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
>        Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>
And you maintain that a 21 year old girl deserved death for striking malingerers
and people who stole food portions from other inmates?  Sad, even for you.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:34 PST 1996
Article: 88524 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 11:56:58 GMT
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  tutu101@aol.com (Tutu101) wrote:
>  
>  >I have already replied to Mr. Keren's arguments in another post.--
>  
>  A typical rbalckmore copout.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis
>  
>        Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>        Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?  
>        European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
>        Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>
A typical curtis copout.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:34 PST 1996
Article: 88525 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:02:05 GMT
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>
nothing of interest
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
After the reading Kurt Stele just gave you, I'll leave you alone....even I feel
sorry for you, Mark.  Sad, really sad.........rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:35 PST 1996
Article: 88526 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: 21 Dec 1996 12:20:03 GMT
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> 

>  
>  [end quote]
>  
>  So much for you objectivity, Mr. Bellinger!
>  
>>>>
So much for your objectivity as well,


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:36 PST 1996
Article: 88535 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belling sees trap, dives in
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:18:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59g5tj$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > >  
>  > >  [end quote]
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  --
>  > >  Gord McFee
>  > >  I'll write no line before its time
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > Yawn.  It's getting old, Gord.  It really is.--rb
>  
>  Not nearly as old as that dead rodent up your butt, Mr. Belling.....
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1196
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Did you really crawl up there, Mark?  Yuk.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 14:32:36 PST 1996
Article: 88536 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:16:25 GMT
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

snip
>  
>>>>
Those of us who have researched this issue for years know that many people
died in these camps due to epidemics and inclement conditions.  It is not 
enough to refer to remains which are consistent with these unfortunate casualties
and imply that they were murdered.  You will need much more convincing evidence
for theat.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 16:18:16 PST 1996
Article: 88545 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:34:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Well, this will be easy.  Miss Grese clearly testified that she had
>  >never seen any "gas chambers" and was told of their existence
>  >by rumors spread by the prisoners themselves.
>  
>  And that she correctly evaluated those "rumors" to be correct, and
>  continued in her selections with that knowledge.
>  
>>>>
Really?  When did she tell you this?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:33 PST 1996
Article: 88565 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 24 Dec 1996 23:03:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:


>  
>  
>>>>
 Dr. Keren just provided a court decision that 
>  blew your thesis to smithereens.


Comment:  Don't talk nonsense.  One court case does not blow
 my thesis to smithereens, except
maybe in the minds of those who are already grasping
at straws.--rb

  Mr.Blackmore, if you wanted to whine about Jews all day, 
>  why didn't you say so in the first place?
>  

Comment:  Why shouldn't I whine about them?  All you do is whine about the
evil germans day in and day out?--rb

 Assuming your story is ture, a person commited a crime and his
>  coreligionists derided him as the twisted freak that he was.
>  I find nothing unusual about this at all.

Comment-  That's fine.  And I will denounce nazi crimes when I see them, as I have
in the past.--rb

  Might as well blame all catholics for the heavily publicised
>  cases of priests molesting children--

Comment--It's not always priests....what did I read about a rabbi and his
assosicate on a plane recently?  You know the case, I am sure.....rb
>  


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:34 PST 1996
Article: 88574 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Gandhi's "handle"
Date: 22 Dec 1996 09:55:50 GMT
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Did I exchange rhymes?  where are the others?  Am I a member of the NSWPP or
>  >any other right wing organization?  No.  Don't you have any shame for all your lies,
>  >gross distortions, and slanders?  Of course you don't.  is that how your mother raised 
>  >you to be?--rb
>  
>  You're quite right, Joe. Van Alstine should be ashamed of himself.
>  All we have is evidence that *you* are an antisemite--we shouldn't
>  slander the leader of the National Socialist White People's Party.
>  
>>>>
That's fine.  Now send him a note of public apology.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:34 PST 1996
Article: 88578 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:56:22 GMT
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>  >Of course.  however, all of this will have to wait until I locate all the
>       available
>  >>  >research material.
>  >>  
>  >>  Oh, we're back to this bullshit. I'm afraid that at this point no one
>  >>  takes your months-long promises in this regard seriously. Still lying.
>  >>  
>  >I always have a suspicion of people who claim to speak for everyone.
>  >They have bizarre complexes.--rb
>  
>  OK, Joe, let's check: Will all those who believe in Belling's efforts to
>  "locate all the available research material" post a brief message to that
>  effect? I'd like to see how badly I'm deluding myself.
>  
>  (Oh, and when are you going to get around to explaining why you kept 
>  posting excerpts from the book of someone whom you first presented as
>  blaming Katyn on the Nazis? Why did you consider anything else from 
>  his book to be trustworthy?)
>  
>  (And why did you label John Sack's book "100% accurate" when you 
>  considered his narrative of Nazi cruelties in the first chapter to
>  be chock-full of lies?)
>  
>>>>
Why are you acting like Raj gandhi?  That question was already answered.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:35 PST 1996
Article: 88595 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 22 Dec 1996 10:29:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # As I said many times over, I am not anti-Semitic.
>  
>  Perhaps Mr. McFee will post, yet again, the revolting
>  antisemitic "poem" that "rblackmore" sent to a Nazi
>  mailing list? Oh, yes, "rblackmore" said it was "just
>  a joke", right? The "poem" which ended like this:
>  
>   "Izzy gets a sentimental feeling every year
>    Everyone can hear him holler
>    'Deck my tree with silver dollars'
>  
>    Rockin around the Hannukah bush
>    Izzy's tribe is here to stay
>    Ripping dumb old Goyim off
>    In that good old Jewish way"
>  
>  You posted this "poem" to a Nazi mailing list,
>  of which you're a member, right? You don't deny
>  this. You just say it was a "joke", right?
>  
>  For God's sake, you miserable little Nazi swine...
>  who do you think you're fooling? I find your
>  cowardice almost as revolting as your opinions.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
You are a strange one to speak of cowardice.  You are a sick little man, Dan.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:36 PST 1996
Article: 88602 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:56:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:


  
 Indeed, my mind is still not made up.  I have a number of theories I am
 entertaining as to what may have happened, but I am fairly well convinced
  that mass gassings of women and children etc., never had the official
  sanction of the German Government.  --rb> 
 
  Stop the printings. Mr. Whoever, has admitted that there "mass
  gassings of women and children etc.," but he does qualify this
  admission. He doesn't think it was at the sanction of the German
  government. So this individual is back to being a functionalist.
  SAVE this paragraph! 

Don't bother.  First we must establish if there were mass gassings, and then the reason
for it and how it came to happen--if it happened.  I mention I have a number of
theories, but they are just speculation and theories at this point.  I do not claim that
there actually were mass gassings--especially of women and children.--rb
  
   This is an aspect of some deniers introductions and personas
    to a forum or newsgroup. They play the intellectual innocent. You did
    this. Then, like a prior persona, you tried to reach various members
    via email to conduct "serious" discussions. I found that, like a
    previous persona, this action appeared to be more of a fishing
  expedition for save topics and ground. I also found that when things
  were presented to your email self you would thank the party and
  continue on in blissful ignorance. The email persona was not the
  newsgroup persona for it appeared that nothing was really learned or
  accepted. 

Well, this was also the behavior of your colleagues--and, indeed, I had nor
have any animosities toward any of you.
  
  Which behaviour are you specifying?

Don't play coy.--rb
  
  It is not in my nature to hate.
  
  Then why did you post that poem and join forces with one who has an
  violently obvious hate? I speak of the Texan going by the name "Doc
  Tavish?"

Join forces?  What do you mean by that?  By the way, I never posted the
poem--Mr. Covington did.  I have already explained the particulars.--rb
  
   I
always responded politely to your emails before you and your colleagues 
began with the insults.
  
  Email is NOT a subject for this group. What goes on in email is not
  what is going on in here. This is also why I told you that I will NOT
  discuss things about the subject of this group via email unless the
  was on that matter.

So you did.--rb
  
  I believe it was Mark van Alstine and Chuck Feree
who threw down the gauntlet first.  But that shouldn't surprise you...but if
they want to dish it out, they will have to take it as well.--rb


  This is a matter between yourself and them. I cannot control what they
  do. This discussion stemmed from an issue that was defined very
  narrowly. The matter concerned _my_ disappointment in _you_. It does
  not concern how I feel about Mr. Feree or Mr. van Alstine.

How DO you feel about them and their tactics, then?  I never hear you criticize them.--rb
   
    Your claims as to your intentions and preference to keep to the high
    road have been obviously not kept on this board. You are easily
   triggered and you do not seem to now this.
  
 Yes, I am easily triggered when I am referred to as "Nazi boy" "scum-bag"
  "liar" and God knows what else.--rb
  
  
 Poor dear. I have gotten called names also and yet, I feel, I rarely
  return tit-for-tat. There are far more important matter than what
  insignificant fools think of me. 

I would agree with this in principle.--rb
  
   You have made claims of an
    education in the field of history and yet you do not display this
    training at all. 
  
  Mike--I received straight A's in my history classes.  You challenge my
  knowledge and training simply because I do not agree with many of your claims.-rb
  
  
  LOL! Whoopie! Straight A's in "history classes." It doesn't matter
  much, but so have I. What fascinates me is your lack of historical
  understanding and how to use source material. Your methods are not
  those of a serious scholar. You rarely support your opinions with
  substantiation and you rarely succeed in supporting them when offering
  citations because you rarely offer proper citations. Let's just say
  that I think you didn't gather what you should have in your straight A
  history classes. At the Graduate level you should have received a bit
>  of training in source analysis. You probably would have read several
>  books on the same and had to analyze the differences in scholarship
>  and the use of source material in the required works. It is clear that
>  you missed something along the way. These are my impressions and not
>  meant to be held by all members of this group.

Well, that is your opinion.  I can say the same about you with justification.
What you object to is my selection and interpretation of materials.--rb
>  
>  >You are clumsy with your sources and distort them to
>  >  fit your own perceptions rather than let the chips fall where they
>  >  may.
>  >
>  >Indeed I do not Mike.  I simply try to view them as unprejudiced as possible and call
>  >a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may.--rb
>  >
>  
>  This may be how you feel. Yet I do not see this unprejudiced approach
>  at all. Your work with _The Good Old Days_ and the methods of
>  distortion and faulty interpretations is readily observed by all. The
>  responses you received on those posting remained unanswered by one of
>  your personas so I feel that they made their point.

I was having serious problems with my server and could not access for days.
I would be happy to readdress anything you feel mught be pertinent.--rb
>  
>  > Doubtful sources do not require twisting or distortions to be
>  >  seen as doubtful with the proper substantiation. This substantiation
>  >  is rarely provided in a satisfactory manner.
>  >
>  >What you call "twisting" and "distorting" is simply use of logic and reason
>  >when examining documents and confessions.--rb
>  >  
>  >  You claimed to not be an anti-Semite and yet posted to a mail group an
>  >  anti-Semitic poem. 

Nope, I responded to what I thought was an email request.-rb

Though I subscribe to certain lists and groups with
>  >  which I do not agree with the concepts presented, I am not
>  >>  hypocritical enough to join them in their presentations. This applies
>  >>  to whatever the subject of the group is. To even consider such a
>  >>  posting and actually setting it to the keyboard without a disclaimer
>  >>  of some sort is suggestive of the intent and attitudes of the poster.
>  >
>  >
>  >I will say this again:  I am not an anti-Semite.
>  
>  Then do not do the stuff that anti-Semites do. Why you are posting to
>  certain lists is beyond me, but you are posting material that supports
>  their points of view. Do not feed those who you do not wish to be
>  assocoated with.

No, I do not, but I see nothing wrong in posting material or answering email, unless
people become personally abusive to me.--rb
>  
>  >  I number many jewish people
>  >among my acquaintances and friends.  My home is open to all people of good
>  >will, regardless of race, creed, or color.  Them's the facts.  I know it is difficult
>  >for you to understand, but what can I say?
>  
>  So is this meant to be attack on what I think of you? I don't beleive
>  I have said anything about who visits your house. I have not said
>  anything about who your friends are. What I have said concerns the
>  impressions gained from what you write and with whom you associate
>  with on this and other groups.
>  
>  >  You and your colleagues can twist
>  >and turn this issue anywhich way you can, yet it will not change reality or the
>  >facts.  I am not a hater. --rb
>  >
>  
>  So you claim. The particular ditty you posted is rather loud in what
>  it suggests nevertheless. You have shown no remorse in presenting it.
>  Your apparent admiration of Kramer, Klein and Grese is another aspect
>  of interest when it comes to your on-line character.

The ditty was satire.  Don't take it personally.  I have never written that I admire
Kramer, Klein, or Grese.  What I did was attempt to give them a fair hearing where
they never received one 50 years ago, and  I will continue in this unil the Holocaust
may be examined with objectivity.--rb
>  
>  >>  So, I am disappointed and have further lowered my estimation of your
>  >>  character accordingly.
>  >
>  >It doesn't take much in this atmosphere.  Look hard enough and you will
>  >find a justification for everything.--rb
>  >
>  
>  It is here in black and white. 
>  
>  >> But, sir, this is a personal estimation. I'll
>  >>  do nothing to suggest that my estimation should be shared with others
>  >>  for they can and will form their own impressions. Some of them are not
>  >>  fearful in being honest when they address you concerning their
>  >>  feeelings about you.
>  >
>  >Nor are they polite.--rb
>  >
>  
>   Neither are yours. Do unto others as you would have them do
>  unto you.
>  
>  > This is unfortunate because the readers of the
>  >>  group will probably have the same view as they without the prodding.
>  >
>  >Let's just leave that to the readers of the group, shall we?--rb
>  
>  You asked about _me_ and I provided you with the requested information
>  concerning my views.
>  
>  >>  
>  >>  It is the holiday season so Happy Holidays.
>  >
>  >Happy Holidays and a Peaceful, healthy, and prosperous New Year to you and
>  >yours--rb
>  >
>  >
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:37 PST 1996
Article: 88612 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 22 Dec 1996 08:13:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <59gbnk$30v@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   fresh@scscomm.com (Andrew Mathis) writes:
>  > 
>  > snip
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > How many times in history was the talmud ordered confiscated and
>  > burned by authorities throughout the world and why would they do that?
>  
>  How many priests did the Nazi murder and why did they do _that?_ --MVA

On the afternoon of february 5th, 1840, the Capuchin priest Thomas was sent for to attend to a sick child.  The priest was a great 
healer and a physician.  He was respected and loved as a saint.  On his way back from the child he was invited by his friend, the 
rich Jew David Arari, to come to his home.  Father Thomas accepted.  When he arrived, the Jews immediately attacked, gagged, 
and bound him up.  They then dragged him into a secret room, and sent for the jewish barber Soliman.  The Priest was laid on a 
table and his head was held over a copper bowl.  The barber seized the old priest by the beard, Aaron Arari held his head, and his 
brother, David Arari slit his throat.  The blood was collected in the copper bowl and filled into bottles......After this, all the Jews who 
took part in the murder were arrested and three of them confessed to the crime in detail.....One was a Rabbi.  he confessed that he 
himslef had carried the blood that had been collected in bottles to the Grand rabbi Yakoub el-Antabi/  After a thorough investigation 
the three Jews who confessed were pardoned.  Ten others who took part in the murder were sentenced to death.--rb 




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Dec 25 21:12:26 PST 1996
Article: 88664 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 22 Dec 1996 09:53:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 13
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References: <59ie01$hko@explorer2.clark.net>
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >How can I "lie" about placques which have been photographed by news
>  >and press agencies for posterity?  Silly person.
>  
>  You must be a silly person indeed to repeat what you have already,
>  in prior posts, conceded was not the truth. But you do so. Not only
>  a liar, but an idiot liar.
>  
>  
>>>>
Do you have any idea what you are babbling about?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 26 09:02:46 PST 1996
Article: 88810 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer II
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:08:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>  
>  >In article <59hlf9$9h0@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>Well, you have answered your own question.  He asked and was refused.
>  >>He couldn't very well bake the loaves himself.  He did whatever he could, and
>  >>that is all one can expect from any human being.
>  >
>  >    I would agree that he did some things, but there are other things he
>  >could and should have tried - most noticeably with regard to the water
>  >situation. 
>  >
>  >    As we discussed earlier, I think on what I have seen so far of what he
>  >did at Belsen - I am not as up on it as other matters - and ignoring
>  >anything which happened anywhere other than Belsen, at this time I would
>  >find for negligent homicide but reasonable doubt as to wilful murder.
>  >
>  
>  For once, Mike, consider that there were TWO charges at the _Belsen_
>  trial and one involved Auschwitz where Klein was the commanding
>  officer at Birkenau!
>  
>  Yes, you are not up on these matters at all. Mr. Stein.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I would think Mr. Stein is aware of the difference, Mr. Curtis.  We were talking
about Belsen.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Dec 26 09:02:47 PST 1996
Article: 88814 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:29:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # No, Dan.  her testimony says that she participated in
>  # selections, but she had no personal knowledge that such
>  # people were being gassed.
>  
>  If you're going to lie, don't post lies which are very
>  easy to refute. I told you already: I have the book, and
>  I can check what you post.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Check whatever you like.  I don't need to lie when the truth is so much
more convenient.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 02:14:56 PST 1996
Article: 88830 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:29:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <59plgs$ehc@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <59mt01$87q$2@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  d.A. wrote:
>  
>  In fact the reader of this guide-book who is looking for a single
>  location where there is mention of 4 million Jewish victims
>  will be sorely disappointed.
>  
>  "rblackmore" asked:
>  
>  Disappointed?--rb
>  
>  
>  d.A. quotes from p. 558 of The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary
>  (Vol. I) (1982):
>  
>  "Disappointed 1. Having one's expectations frustrated; foiled,
>                   thwarted."
>  
>  Hence, yes, disappointed.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Stop fiddling around and tell the truth for probably the first time in your life.
Don't play games with people.  they won't like it.  people don't like to be played
for fools.  The overwhelming majority of inmates at Auschwitz were jews.  Other
nationalities perhaps comprised 10 % of the total inmate population, whether your
book explicitly states so or not.==rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:35 PST 1996
Article: 88919 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 21 Dec 1996 23:53:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # Victims?  Roll call was to establish how many people
>  # were present.
>  
>  Mr. "rblackmore" seems to forget, yet again, that his
>  beloved Irma Grese (last seen dangling from a rope
>  in Germany), had testified that roll calls were also
>  held to select victims who were to be murdered in the
>  gas chambers. He also "forgot" that she said one of
>  her jobs in Auschwitz-Birkenau was to chase the
>  victims who tried to escape from these roll calls,
>  bring them back, and beat them up.
>  
>  But, really, I don't think he "forgot" that. I think
>  he knows this very well. And that this is what makes
>  him love and admire Irma Grese so much.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Well, this will be easy.  Miss Grese clearly testified that she had
never seen any "gas chambers" and was told of their existence
by rumors spread by the prisoners themselves.  More of your nonsense
easily refuted.  Good-by, Gracie.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:36 PST 1996
Article: 88928 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ode to Alt. Revisionism
Date: 23 Dec 1996 20:20:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Learning together
Headpiece filled with straw.  Alas!
Our dired voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry glass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar--------T.S. Eliot


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:37 PST 1996
Article: 88962 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer II
Date: 23 Dec 1996 21:10:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
  In article <59ict7$3hq@access1.digex.net>,
  Michael P. Stein  wrote:
  
      As we discussed earlier, I think on what I have seen so far of what he
  did at Belsen - I am not as up on it as other matters - and ignoring
  anything which happened anywhere other than Belsen, at this time I would
  find for negligent homicide but reasonable doubt as to wilful murder.
 
 I would disagree, but only because the sick and starving 
  inmates were forced to work, killing them off in scores

Brian--for the upteenth time--the sick were not forced to work--even at
Belsen.--rb
  
  Kremer would be hard pressed to demonstrate that he 
  did not know that the sick and starving were forced into
  labor, and as commandant of the camp it would have
  been his responsibility to know.
  
  Was he convicted only for the conditions at Bergen-Belsen, 
  or for Birkenau as well?

Birkenau.--rb
  
>  [Before taking the commandant's position at Belsen, he was
>   in charge of the Birkenau section of Auschwitz. ]

Well, Mr. Stein already posted the explanation that he based his opinion
on Belsen and not on any other situation,--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:38 PST 1996
Article: 89012 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Let her lie, why do you care?"
Date: 21 Dec 1996 22:09:10 GMT
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In a discussion concerning the guilt or innocence of Kramer, former
commandant of Belsen, Danny Keren referred to unsupported statements
attributed to the ex-commandant by former camp Aufseherin Herta Ehlert,
a petty thief and bully.  Ehlert swore that Kramer had said of the inmates
at Belsen:  "Let them die, why should you care?"  I responded by saying that
I did not believe her, and posted a few reasons why I didn't.  Danny, of course,
scoffed at these remarks.  The gist of my argument was that it appeared that
Ehlert, who had been arrested and charged with crimes, did what is usually
done by subordinates-cast the guilt and responsibility on to her superiors, in
this case, Kramer.  Kramer denied having uttered these words on the witness
stand.  I believe him, based upon the evidence which I researched, proving
that Kramer did everything he could to improve conditions within the camp.  Indeed,
if people like Keren and others insist on placing responsibility squarely onto the 
shoulders of Kramer, their opinions are negated by the evidence in his favor.  Besides
the documents which support Kramer's claims, we also have the fact of the children's
camp at Belsen.  The children were found to be in "fairly good health" by the British
authorities.  The reasons why?  The children were segregated from the main camp.  Why?
Because the main camp was where the epidemics had spread.  The person responsible for
keeping the children  away from the adult section was KRAMER.  If women sacrificed them-
selves in order to procure higher food rations for the children, then this is also a major factor-
but, food notwithstanding-if Kramer had placed the children into the adult compounds,
they would have perished.  Now, as to Ehlert, let us briefly examine how credible she is:

Herta Ehlert was referred to the SS for work duty in 1939,  She served at Ravensbrueck,
Lublin, and Auschwitz before being transferred to Belsen in 1945.

Now, sometime during the day or night of June 11, 1945, Ehlert was interrogated by the
British.  At her trial she contested written statements which she had originally given to her
interrogators, stating that they were not correct.  For instance:

Q:  Have you received a German translation of the statement you made on the 
     11th June, 1945,  at Celle?

A:  Yes, but it is not a correct version of what I originally said.

Where have we heard this before?    It seems as though the interrogators were,
as I previously posted, simplying interested in accumulating all the sensationalistic
statements as possible to use against the accused.  For instance, in the same 
"deposition" referred to above, it was alleged that Ehlert witnessed a staff member
"kicking" an inmate.  When questioned about this at the trial, Ehlert said:

"I never said that he was kicking her."

The British also included a statment that Ehlert had heard Kramer giving orders to
another staff member to beat the women.  When asked about this on the witness
stand, Ehlert replied:

"I do not know.  I have seen Kramer speaking to Kasainitzky,  but whether he gave
this order, I cannot say."

So, the British interrogators somehow transformed Kramer speaking to someone into
an imagined scene where he is giving orders to "beat women".

And so on and so forth.  When asked:

"How did you find the conditions when you arrived at Belsen?", she replied:

"The conditions were the worst I ever saw in a camp.  They became worse as time
went on."

Thus, her opinion is in agreement with Kramer, who had been virtually duped into 
accepting the assignment there.  Also in agreement were Pohl and Hoess, who later
toured the camp at the urgent request of Kramer.  Both of these men also indicated that
there was nothing they could do for him.

Now, we have all read much about the conditions of this camp, and it is noteworthy to
mention the date when Ehlert first arrived for duty:  February, 1945!  Therefore,
just 2 months after Kramer, and ONE month before liberation!  A period when conditions
in the camp were at their worst!

Now, as to my incessant postings that allied bombing sorties helped to contribute to the
horrifying conditions in the camp, we find confirmation in the following exchange:

Q:  Did you try to do anything yourself to help?

A:  ...I went to Unterscharfuehrer Mueller, who was in charge of ...(the)...store, and he told me
that all the train wagons were SMASHED BY BOMBING and he could not do anything about
it.  At that moment I happened to meet Kramer, told him about it and said that the death rate
was increasing, and that the prisoners could not keep alive on this thin soup.  He made the
Kommandos from the prisoners collect potatoes and mash them, and those mashed potatoes 
were mixed with the soup...."

Now, to Keren's beloved quote:

"In March I saw Dr. Horstmann.  The weather had become a bit warmer and I was rather
anxious about the open latrines, because I thought it might cause an epedemic (!), and he 
said he could not do anything about it because he had no means of disinfection and could
only give me one sack with chalk for this  purpose.  The third time I returned to the camp
I did not feel very well, because of the horrible smell, and on meeting Kramer I talked to him
about it and he said:  "Let them die; we cannot do anything about it; my hands are tied."

So these are the circumstances under which Ehlert claims Kramer uttered the words attributed
to him.  Take it for what it is worth.  If we compare this alleged statement with the written formal
plea for help Kramer sent on to his superiors, Ehlert's assertions simply do not appear credible.

If we may return briefly to her alleged "confessions and statements" again, we read the
following:

Q:  In your statement to Colonel Genn which was read over to you in German and which
you swore to as true, you said in paragraph 10, "I have heard that Ilse Forster and Frieda
Walter used to beat interness to a quite unreasonable extent."  

(Now, notice the method used by the interrogators.  He uses such terms as "I have heard"...
etc.)  And if she had heard, she would have to have heard form 2nd or 3rd hand sources. Now, for 
Ehlert's reply:

A:  It must be that the interpreter did not understand.

Indeed, perhaps it was his intention to deliberately not understand.

In a similar vein:

Q:  Did you not say to Colonel Genn that you saw him (Kramer) kicking and shaking
her, and later hit her with a stick on her head and face and all over her body quite
unmercifully?"

A:  No.

Well, it seems that Colonel Genn had quite an imagination.
Perhaps he "misinterpreted"?

Only a couple more examples ought to suffice to formally conclude this debate:

Q:  Was it not a favorite trick of the SS to make one lot of prisoners beat another?

A:  No.  They were very often FIGHTING AMONGST EACH OTHER.

Q:  When you made your statement to Colonel Genn, who questioned you?

A:  An interpreter who gave the Colonel my replies in English.  
(I would LOVE to track this person down today)

Q:  When it was read (Back to you), did you notice if anything was wrong and which
did not agree with what you had said?

A:  No.  I received the impression that it was what I had said.

Hmmm, a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum.........

Finally, and this is the one I love the best:

Q:  Do you remember saying to Colonel Genn:  "I say that Kramer was responsible for
the conditions.  Among other reasons, (Which are conveniently NEVER given) because
on ONE occasion, when I complained of the increasing death rate to Kramer, he replied,
"Let them die.  Why should you care?"

A:  Yes.

Q:  And I put it to you that you took his advice.

A:  What could one individual person like me do with so many thousands of prisoners?

The same could well be asked of Kramer................................


Source:  The Belsen Trial, pg.  227-242. 







From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:38 PST 1996
Article: 89061 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:40:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  >
>  >
>  >>  
>  >Did I mention the "wascally Jews"?  And I only hold Nizkook responsible
>  >for their own abysmal ignorance.--rb
>  >>  
>  
>  I'm confused. I thought you agreed to put all the name calling aside?
>  
>  Get yourself a service that allows you to compose off-line. Then you
>  can put all this stuff in one post. I wish Moran would do this also
>  for he seems to post something then reflect on it. Then he replies to
>  himself. Geez.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Yes, I agreed to put it aside when others do.  Those who continue
to utilize name-calling will be treated in like fashion.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:39 PST 1996
Article: 89062 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 22 Dec 1996 07:43:21 GMT
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  
>  ## In
>  ##
>  ## http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>  ## Bormann.jpg
>  ##
>  ## There's the photo of another of the SS-women from Auschwitz,
>  ## Juana Bormann.
>  
>  # Right, Dan....And I suppose the photos were taken at a
>  # Hollywood Glamour Studio and the ladies were attended to by
>  # beauticians before the photos you posted were taken........
>  
>  What's your problem? You think SS-woman Juana Bormann was ugly?
>  You think this is why I posted her photograph?
>  
>  # Would you like me to start scanning and posting photos of Jewish
>  # people from the pages of the Stuermer?  Continue with this little
>  # game and I will do it--rb
>  
>  You're trying to scare me, nazi-boy, or what?

Does this scare you, Dan?--rb




From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:40 PST 1996
Article: 89079 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 24 Dec 1996 23:25:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:


>>>>
>>  And that she correctly evaluated those "rumors" to be correct, and
>  >>  continued in her selections with that knowledge.
>  >>  

Comment:  Your explanation is weak.  How could she evaluate these rumors to
have been correct without any evidence?  Impossible, and I am surprised that
you attempt to use this poor example as evidence.--rb

  
>  [I will make a comment here and now and again to make clear what has
>  been going on prior to her testimony. She does not deny the slection
>  parades as defined by the court. She is familiar with the various
>  parades. some of these are calls to select work parties. Some were
>  roll calles or Appelle. Some were attended only by Jews and these were
>  the special treatment parades. Non-Jews did not form up for these
>  particular parades. So follows the next question.]


This is your interpretation.--rb

  
>  If anyone at all sees the word rumor, please let me know. The final
>  statement is pretty straight forward. She knew people were being
>  gassed. 

You are stuck with the rumor, Mike, as she testified explicitly to this in
previous testimony.  there is NO way she could have been sure that
people were being gassed.  It is ridiculous to even think so, as she was
never told of these chambers by either superiors or subordinates.  She never
saw them.  She didn't have a clue, except by listening to the rumors started by 
prisoners.  And if she didn't take part in selections--I suppose they would have
stopped.  Then there is the question of 'when did she realize that people were
being gassed?  At what point?  And so on and so forth...better to stick with the
truth--it is easier.--rb

 [I must comment here to aid  the weary "revisionists" in understanding
>  the fine points of this testimony. She doesn't say "What gas chamber?"
>  She doesn't ask what Mr. Backhouse means. In fact she didn't ask what
>  her own defense council meant by the terms he uses. She also used the
>  S.B. term above. It seems that even a lowly Aufseherin knew what
>  Sonder Behandlung was.]

Comment:  Again, this is your interpretation.  People also confessed to ritual murder and
kissing the devil's ass and conjuring up imps.  We are left with what is reasonable, and
what is reasonable is that she never saw any gas chambers and heard of them only
through rumor mongers.--rb

 [I must comment here to aid  the weary "revisionists" in understanding
>  the fine points of this testimony. She doesn't say "What gas chamber?"
>  She doesn't ask what Mr. Backhouse means. In fact she didn't ask what
>  her own defense council meant by the terms he uses. She also used the
>  S.B. term above. It seems that even a lowly Aufseherin knew what
>  Sonder Behandlung was.]

Comment--Sorry to disillusion you, but Kramer did most certainly deny the gas chamber
story in his first statement.  Only after he had been in the hands of professional interrogators
for a while did he admit to their existence.  And his alleged reason for now admiting them was
ridiculous.--rb
>  


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:40 PST 1996
Article: 89089 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:38:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:


>  
>  >Paul was not. But Paul also had quite a few hang-ups about sex, didn't he?
>  
>  Why not? Tradition has it he was about 5 foot tall and ugly as a
>  mud fence. He probably was never laid in his life.
>  
>  
>  posted/emailed
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
I believe Paul had been married--to what, I don't know.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:41 PST 1996
Article: 89137 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No SS Man Was Ever Punished?
Date: 24 Dec 1996 23:05:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  Could I ask the relevance of that quote to the debate in alt.revisionism?  Dr.
>  Keren's quote from the SS Court's verdict is relevant because it uses the
>  expression "the Jews have to be exterminated" and as such, can be seen as an
>  indication that the SS knew the extermination was being undertaken.  The
>  ritual murder quote is in no way relevant that I can think of, because it
>  pre-dates the Holocaust by about 55 years, and all  serious historians that I
>  am aware of discount those stories as inventions.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Well, you say that all historians count these alleged cases of ritual murder as
inventions, fabrications, etc.....Maybe the day will soon approach when historians
will do the same with many of the holocaust tales as well...and that is my point and
why i think these posts are VERY relevant...rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:42 PST 1996
Article: 89139 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now Playing....Irma Grese
Date: 24 Dec 1996 23:11:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <59ht98$fco@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com21 Dec 1996
>  23:53:12 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  
>  [deleted]
>  
>  :>Well, this will be easy.  Miss Grese clearly testified that she had
>  :>never seen any "gas chambers" and was told of their existence
>  :>by rumors spread by the prisoners themselves.  More of your nonsense
>  :>easily refuted.  Good-by, Gracie.--rb
>  
>  Miss Grese also testified that *everyone* in the camp, presumably including
>  her, knew that Sonderbehandlung (special action) meant gassing.  Eichmann said
>  the same thing in his interrogations, and I doubt he ever heard of Fraeulein
>  Grese.  Isn't that a bit coincidental?
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
I don't know what you mean by significance.  i for one find it odd that
all the camp could "know: that SB meant gassing yet none of them had
ever been told of gas chambers by their superiors or subordinates and none
of them had actually seen the infamous chambers themselves, though alleged
suriviors--men and women, all claimed to have seen them and much more.  I have
no reason to disbelieve Miss Grese, as I found no damaging contradictions in her
testimony, as I did with many of the "survivors".  i think my post "Juana Bormann and
her Big Bad Wolf" explains it much better.  As to SB it could mean a number of things--
execution was one of them--but so was preferred treatment.  it could hardly have been
left to the individual to determine which standard would apply.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:43 PST 1996
Article: 89170 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:05:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : No, Mr. Anderson-I never regarded this speech as particularly significant.
>  
>  Sorry, Mr. Belling--I'm just going by what you said.
>  
>  : My contention is that an attempt is being made to read more into it than
>  : is actually suggested.  Himmler's words, if accurate, are no more inciting
>  : than those of Ilya Ehrenburg or Henry Morgenthau.
>  
>  The point is not that Himmler's words are "inciting," Mr. Belling.
>  The point is that Himmler's words are an open admission of the Nazi
>  extermination policy.
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
Himmler did not set policy.  And if it was indeed the policy, why is it that
so many Generals and officers had NO idea what he was even talking about?
Himmler, as you may know, in a meeting with a Jewish Representative, Masur,
in 1945, explicitly stated that extermination was NOT the policy. Himmler also stated to
Hans Lammers that the only people being executed were insurgents and partisans,--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:44 PST 1996
Article: 89172 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer III
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:12:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:


>  
>>>>
>  The british found the water in the river to be potable 
>  and supplied the camp with it using the camp's own equipment.
>  [that they first supplied the camp by any other means
>   is not important, as they may not have known about the
>   pumping equipment until some time after they initially
>   arrived.]
>  Nothing prevented the camp staff from doing the same
>  thing many months before the camp was liberated by 
>  the british.

Comment:  The camp was not without water for months.
Perhaps Kramer and his staff simply were incompetent when
it came to engineering and so forth, and that is why he hurried
the process of turning the camp over to the British.  he had a
catastrophe on his hands and he knew it.--rb

 Unless, of course, you can provide a single shred
>  of evidence that the river water had to be _filtered_
>  before it was potable, and that the nazis did not 
>  have these filters you talk about.

Comment:  I do not believe proof is necessary here.  We cannot
travel back in time.  One could perhaps attempt to locate information
on the river which ran near the camp and then attempt to find out if
this water is indeed potable today without any need for filtering.  I think
that the answer is a foregone conclusion, however.--rb

  Since Mr. Giwer did not produce any documentatin
>  for his 'filtering' claims either, i suspect he made 
>  it up.  
>  
>  So, what about these mythical filters, mr. Blackmore?

I believ mr. Giwer was using good old common sense when he posted
his reply.  I happen to agree with him.  Read a few manuals on camping 
and water filtering and purification.  Perhaps you can find a few old or
recent army field manuals.  they should provide you with all the info you
seek.--rb
>  


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 11:37:44 PST 1996
Article: 89213 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in Israel Hate Immigrants
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:42:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>    writes:
>  On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 07:48:17 -0500, schwartz@infinet.com (Sara
>  aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>  
>





>  >In all honesty, I believe Paul is really the father of Christianity. There
>  >are many suppositions about the ways in which Paul "changed" Jesus'
>  >message. Before Paul, there were any number of Christian sects, all of whom
>  >believed they were following the teachings of Jesus. Many of them practiced
>  >"free love" and group marriages, because they believed that was what Jesus
>  >meant when he talked about loving your fellows. Were they correct? Well,
>  >they were certainly around to have heard Jesus preach in person.


Those who practiced "free love" were Gnostic heretics.  What was the
advice Jesus gave about living like eunuchs?  Also, did he not say that
"He who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery
with her in his heart.?"  Hardly supports your interpretation--rb
>  




From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 13:25:14 PST 1996
Article: 89263 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:31:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>       
>  d.A. writes:
>       
>  In Room 1 of Block 4 there was an urn. "The urn with a handful of ashes,
>  collected in the Birkenau terrain, commemorates '4 million of those'
>  who had perishhed there."
>   
>  "rblackmore" asks:
>  
>  Yes, and these alleged four million were what--Eskimoes?  Are you so
>  dense?
>  
>  
>  
>  d.A. answers:
>  
>  These four millions were claimed to be people, explicitly,
>  "victims of Fascism". I am unaware of any Eskimos who were
>  in any of the camps in the Auschwitz complex. Certainly
>  none are listed there. Do you have any sources for this?
>  
>  Since I float when I enter water deep enough, I would guess
>  that my density is roughly that of water. Is that "so dense"?
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
No, how many of these four million ashes were Jews?  1.5 million?
If so, demonstrate by way of proof that the remainder were non-Jews
and how they came to be there,.


From rblackmore@juno.com Fri Dec 27 13:25:14 PST 1996
Article: 89264 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 24 Dec 1996 22:27:25 GMT
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  "rblackmore" wrote:
>   

I deleted everything you wrote because you are merely tap
dancing and you know very well that the figure referred to
Jews, as they were the overwhelming majority of inmates
at Auschwitz.  When you mention Hungarians, what you 
mean is 3-400,000 Hungarian jews, when you mention the Dutch,
what is meant is Dutch Jews---perhaps 1% of these nationalities
were at Auschwitz in comaprison to the Jews deported there.  Cut
the games.--rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:39 PST 1996
Article: 89768 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'All together, six gas chambers were active'
Date: 29 Dec 1996 13:53:09 GMT
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*   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
*  Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
>  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
>  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp.
>  The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers,
>  where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and
>  later burned.
>  
>  About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There
>  were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was
>  called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name...
>  These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas
>  chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt
>  was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In
>  my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver...
>  
>  All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate,
>  about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into
>  the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the
>  Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the
>  Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts...
>  
>  The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt
>  stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine
>  room opened the gas chambers from the other side.
>  
>>>>
The confession of Emanuel of Genoa:

Emanuel, son of the doctor Solomon of Genoa, testified to the
 martyrdom of two Christian children after he had converted to 
Christianity.  One of these cases was reported second hand. 
 He related how Master Simon from Ancona, a doctor by
 profession, had beheaded a small child.  The child’s head
 was then dragged outside into the street by a dog.  Officials
 followed the blood-stains and discovered the child’s body in
 the doctor’s house, lying in a tub.  The doctor, however, escaped 
across the sea.  

Another murder Emanuel testifies to witnessing personally in
 Saona, a province of the Republic of Genoa.  He stated:

My father led me into a house where eight Jews were assembled.
  They took a sacred oath that they would rather suffer death or
 kill themselves before they would confess to the deed they were
 going to commit.  After that they brought in a 2 year old christian
 child.  One of the conspirators held its right arm, another the left
 arm, and the third, his head, so that he formed the shape of a cross. 
 The fourth assassin had a long, sharp, pointed needle or scalpel in
 his hand.  With it he stabbed the child from his stomach to his heart.
  he quickly pulled the needle back and stabbed once more so that 
the blood began to flow freely from the wounds into a basin beneath. 
 This was repeated until the child died.  They then threw the child’s
 body into a secret chamber....”  Emmanuel later made his full confession
 of having witnessed and participated in this crime before the Master
 Garsias of Boamonn, Bishop of Lucena, a notary pubic, and others.
  His story was reportedly confirmed by documents preserved by the
 Franciscan monks.




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:39 PST 1996
Article: 89773 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Posen Speech
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:21:38 GMT
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   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
  My ISP seems to have eaten the original post I sent, so here it is again.
   
  Sara
  
  ********BEGIN QUOTE*********
  
  Korherr's job was complicated by the fact that, even in a report designed
  for Himmler, he was not supposed to spell out the facts in black and white.
   happened to the others. To be sure, Korherr could state that that through
  various means the Jewish population in the Reich and the Government General
  had diminished by 3.1 million between 1933 and 1942. In spite of his
  generous use of the term "evacuation," however, which Himmler seconded. to
  mislead those who would read the document in later years. Himmler had to
  correct Korherr's wording in one place. Where Korherr had written of the
  "special treatment" of the Jews, Himmler insisted on either the
  "transportation of the Jews from the Eastern provinces to the Russian East"
  or the "sifting of the Jews through the camps." These were among the
  officially approved terms to camouflage the realities of the Final
  Solution. (49)
  
  On at least one occasion Himmler violated his own rule. In October 1943
  Himmler delivered a long speech at a meeting of the SS-Gruppenfuehrer at
  Posen. As usual, he spoke from notes, but he had begun the practice of
  recording some of his talks on a red oxide tape wider than what is used
  today. Early in the speech Himmler stopped and played the tape back to see
  if the recorder was picking up his voice properly. (50) He unquestionably
  knew that he was being recorded, but he was speaking to a very select
  audience, and he didn't think that there was any danger of the recording
  falling into the wrong hands. Even in the fall of 1943 Himmler was
  convinced that Nazi Germany would eventually win the war -- it was a law of
  nature, he said. (51)
  
  His voice was of middle range -- neither deep nor high-pitched. He spoke
  clearly, deliberately, and emphatically, but for the most part
  dispassionately, much like a schoolmaster reviewing a long and somewhat
  complicated lesson for his pupils. At one point he actually talked about
  giving out a grade if he had to judge a certain performance. (52)
  Himmler reviewed the military situation and the political situation on each
  front, but, as always, his analysis was colored and rendered useless by his
  racial judgments. In spite of Russia's successes, Slavs were incapable of
  constructing anything themselves, he claimed. Every few centuries the blend
  of races in Asia produced a great leader -- an Attila, a Genghis Khan, a
  Tamerlaine, a Lenin, or a Stalin -- who could make something out of the
  Slavs. These leaders possessed traces of German blood, which gave them
  their ability, but good leadership was not enough. In the end German racial
  superiority would help Germany to overcome the more numerous but inferior
  Slav masses.
  
  About two hours into the three-hour-and-ten-minute speech, Himmler decided
  to raise a weighty matter about which the SS could never speak publicly --
  "the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people." It
  was necessary to speak about this once, Himmler said. It was one thing to
  put the phrase "exclusion of the Jews" or "extermination of the Jews" in
  the Nazi program and quite another to carry it out. In principle, Germans
  supported persecution, Himmler noted with some sarcasm, but then each of
  them tried to save the one good Jew that he knew. These people had no sense
  of what it was like to see one hundred or five hundred or a thousand bodies
  lying there. Himmler boasted that the SS had maintained this program, and
  apart from some exceptions brought about by human weakness, had remained
  respectable. It was "an unwritten and never to be written page of glory in
  our history." And as he spoke, the reel of tape continued to turn and to
  record.
  
  If the Jews had not been dealt with, Himmler continued, Germany would then
  be in the situation of 1916 or 1917, where Jews had infected the German
  body politic. "We had the moral right, we had the duty with regard to our
  people, to kill the race that wanted to kill us." It was the future Himmler
  had sketched out in 1938, the day before Kristallnacht, with much the same
 audience and much the same justification; now the prediction was partially
 fulfilled. Then his voice rising to an angry snarl, Himmler continued: "We
  do _not_ have the right to enrich ourselves even just with a fur or a watch
  or a Mark or with a cigarette!" It was the most strident and most emotional
  moment in the whole speech. The architect of mass murder remained in his
>  own eyes a moralist to the end.
>  
>  ************
>  
>  49. Korherr's reports in NA RG 238, NO-5193 and 5194, cover letter,
>  NO-5195. Himmler's correction of working in Brandt to Korherr, 20 April
>  1943. NA RG 238, NO-5196/ Raul Hilberg, _The Destruction of the European
>  Jews_ (Chicago, 1`961), 2nd expanded ed., 3 vols. (New York 1985), I
>  322-23, reviews the whole range of Nazi terms that veiled the realities.
>  
>  50. The "official" version of the speech, published in IMT 29, 110-73,
>  1919-PS, does not contain this section, or a number of others, because,
>  after recording his speeches, Himmler would have an exact transcript made,
>  then edit it. One has to go to the recording to get the exact speech that
>  Himmler gave. The recording is available in the National Archives, Motion
>  Picture, Sound, and Video Branch.
>  
>  51. IMT 29, 115, 119-PS.
>  
>  52. Again, this is not in the printed text. See n. 50.
>  
>  
>  **********END QUOTE***********
>  
>  _The Architect of Genocide: Himmler and the Final Solution_, Richard
>  Breitman, Alfred A. Knopf, NY 1991
>  ISBN 0-394-56841-9
>  
>  -- 
>  "Remember, there is a great difference between kneeling down and bending over."
>     Frank Zappa
>  
>  
>>>>
When did you speak to Korherr about all of this?  In fact, Korherr, toward the end of
his life, was sick and tired of people referring to his reports as if they were an admission
of mass murder.  he said they were nothing of the sort.  As to Architect of Genocide.
What of it?  There are others who disagree with this author.  His arguments will not 
convince skeptics.   Frankly, I was disappointed that you referred so extensively on 
Breitman.  i would much rather read your own personal analysis of the subject.
All you do was recite breitman's paraphrasing of Himmler's alleged speech.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:40 PST 1996
Article: 89774 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:27:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  fafner13@aol.com (Fafner13) writes:
>  
>  # Irma Grese came right out and said it at her trial.....
>  # she said she wouldn't go near the inmates at belsen
>  # as she was frightened of them.
>  
>  Well, our "revisionist scholar" here does not quote that
>  accurately. Let's see what his beloved Grese REALLY said:
>  
>  
>  
>  Q. At Belsen, have you ever struck a prisoner at all?
>  
>  A. Yes, but only with my hand. The condition of the prisoners
>     was so bad that one had almost a horror of them.
>  
>  
>  
>  Yes, boys and girls, there is no wonder why the
>  rblackmore/Fafner13/tutu101 entity is so much in love
>  with poor little Irma Grese.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Why do you think I am in love with her?  Because she struck people who
deserved it.  It must have really hurt, as well, coming from a petite young
woman like grese...Ouch....ouch...


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:41 PST 1996
Article: 89778 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:25:16 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  Joe Belling, following the senile coward Matt Giwer's lead 
>  in inventing yet another pseudonym for his ever more moronic 
>  postings, fafner13@aol.com (Fafner13), writes:
>  
>  JB>Note that many SS members also died from the epiidemics.  That is why
>     the
>  JB>staff was frightened of the inmates.
>  
>  CP>Now, how is it that I know that your support for this is in one of 
>  CP>those nine zillion books you haven't catalogued and can't access
>  CP>just yet? Extrasensory perception, I guess.
>  
>  JB>Well, Miss Powder, it is in the transcripts of the Belsen trial...made
>     an
>  JB>ass out of yourself again.....
>  
>  If you can substantiate the death of "many SS men" from the Belsen
>  transcripts, go ahead. BTW, I reserve the right to be skeptical about
>  any self-serving testimony from the accused. (But I somehow doubt you'll
>  present anything at all. Go ahead, Joe, prove me wrong.) 
>  
>>>>
Read the book.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:41 PST 1996
Article: 89779 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:28:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <19961228140700.JAA10437@ladder01.news.aol.com> - fafner13@aol.com
>  (Fafner13)28 Dec 1996 14:08:43 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>I am always amazed that the Final Solution is alleged to have more
>  :>forgeries
>  :>associated with it than any other historical event of which I am aware.
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>How about Jewish ritual murder?
>  
>  Now Mr. Blackmore, you promised you were going to behave yourself and stop
>  this foolishness.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
You didn't answer the question directly.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:42 PST 1996
Article: 89780 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore's obtuse Postings
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:36:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
  In article <19961227110800.GAA13124@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
  Tutu101  wrote:
  I don't believe your witness who claims she saw Grese beat someone to
  death.  I happen to know that gratuitous beatings of inmates at Auschwitz
  were strictly prohibited.
  
      So was what happened to Rodney King.  I suppose you will claim that
  the strict prohibition against police brutality proves that the videotape
  was forged? 

We have that on video tape.  not a very good analogy.-rb
   
  Your witness never names the alleged victim or
  the alleged person who was with her.-rb
  
      Irrelevant.  If I see a murder on the street, it is not necessary for
  me to know the victim's name in order to know that I have seen a murder. 
  Nor is the name of the accompanying person relevant unless that person
> also appears as a witness and contradicts the story. 

Ah--but it IS necessary to provide a corpse to prove murder has indeed taken
place.  The allegations against Grese were simply maliciously imputed to her
by hateful, hysterical, and jealous ex-inmates.--rb
>  
>  
>  >All forms of corporal punishment had
>  >to be approved of in advance by authorities in Berlin.  The very idea of
>  >little Irma Grese beating people to death with her cellophane whip is a
>  >joke.  Grese was innocent.  She never deserved to hang on the basis of
>  >unproved witchcraft like hysterical denunciations.  And all this fuss and
>  >ado you raise about these issues is unconvincing and reminds me of a
>  >Shakespearian line:  "Thou doth protest too much."
>  
>      Pot.  Kettle.  Black.

I am not protesting.--rb
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:43 PST 1996
Article: 89781 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore's obtuse Postings
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:31:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <5a5vbn$job@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <5a3i2e$abc$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message  -
>  schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)Fri, 27 Dec 1996 17:09:27 -0500
>  writes:
>  :>
>  :>In article <32c4348d.845680@news.gte.net>, Matt Giwer (mgiwer@gte.net), an
>  :>unmitigated coward pretending to be premed@itated.ued wrote:
>  :>
>  :>Fascinating that people too cowardly to use their own names love to hide
>  :>under the guise of doctors. Doc Savage. (Yes, I know, it's a fictional
>  :>character). Doc Tor. Doc Tavish. See a trend here?
>  
>  Yeah.  They are two *sick* losers!
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Don't forget Doc Keren...


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:43 PST 1996
Article: 89782 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore's obtuse Postings
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:33:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <5a5vfm$job@juliana.sprynet.com>
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  mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:



  If this is how they are being handled, Hillary, no wonder the denial
  groups are afraid to enter this newsgroup anymore. They are plum outa
  ideas.
  
  Posted/e-mailed
  
  
  
  Mike Curtis 
  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
No one is afraid of your little newsgroup.....by the way, there is
no contradiction in what I wrote..but youknew that already Mike...
stop jacking the browsers....


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:44 PST 1996
Article: 89785 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Date: 29 Dec 1996 13:57:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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*  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
*  Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  On orders from my department, I too drove a gas-van from Berlin to
>  Minsk. These vans had been constructed with a lockable cargo
>  compartment, like a moving van.
>   
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  I was detailed with the gas-van to about twelve convoys of arriving
>  Jews. It was in 1942. There were about a thousand Jews in each
>  convoy. With each arrival I made five or six trips with my van.
>  Some of the Jews were shot. I myself never shot a single Jew; I
>  only gassed them.
>  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  A ghetto operation took place in the autumn of 1943. I was put into
>  action only once with the gas-van. I made three trips with it to the
>  execution site. I gassed about 150 to 180 people. 
>  
>  
>>>>
1753  Twenty-four Jews were arrested for the murder of a peasant boy,
 Studzienski, in Zlytrovia, Poland.  They confess to the crime.  Eleven
 are condemned to death.




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:45 PST 1996
Article: 89788 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Doc Tavish--Kramer Repost 1
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:47:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
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>   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:


>  
>  Present this testimony.
>  
>  
>  Mike Curtis 
>  E-mail mcurtis@inetport.com
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Also, the bread you spoke of also had to feed german civilians
 and wehrmacht personnel.  There was NO
way Kramer could have received more without authorization-
-which would have to have come from Army
headquarters.  Also, it would have been up to his superior,
 Pohl, to work out the arrangements
with the army, if any arrangements could have been made.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:46 PST 1996
Article: 89789 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irma Grese: By Special Request
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:49:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Buckaroo@bonsai.organic (Doc Savage) writes:
>  
>  # I am too occupied laughing at the idea of beating someone
>  # to death with a cellophane whip.
>  
>  She testified to beating them also with a stick, oh senile one.
>  
>    "I usually used to beat them on the shoulders, but
>    there were times when, because of the numbers involved,
>    they were beaten on any part of the body that happened
>    to be easiest".
>  
>  Irma Grese, on how she used to beat inmates with a stick (excerpt
>  quoted from "The Belsen Trial").
>  
>  Learn to read, senile one. It may eventually get you somewhere
>  in life, although it's probably too late. 
>  
>  God help you if your Nazi pals ever get to power, Matt. You will be 
>  among the first ones they will send to the euthanasia institutions.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Grese beat thieves and malingerers with a stick.  the Israeli secret
service beats people to death with baseball bats.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec 29 07:33:46 PST 1996
Article: 89790 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish math: 6 million minus 2.5 million= 6million, of course!
Date: 29 Dec 1996 14:53:03 GMT
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>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>   karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) writes:
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  >>  
>  >>  >Can you explain why in the book "German Crimes in Poland", it is
>  >>  >expressly stated that the Germans had not exterminated the Poles or
>  >>  >Russians, but only the Jews, and that undoubtedly the Poles and 
>  >>  >Russians would have been the next on their list had they won the war?--rb
>  >>  
>  >>  Can you supply a precise quote, rather than your probably twisted
>  >>  paraphrase? Then I for one will be happy to take a stab at explaining
>  >>  it. I just don't want to waste my time explaining your misunderstandings.
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >I have posted some of this recently but I don't remember where.--rb
>  
>  So what? Don't you have the book? Quote the book. Very simple. No
>  misunderstandings. No bullshit. No, you're not even going