The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1196


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:06 PST 1996
Article: 80427 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Grabner ordered me to pour Zyklon B into the opening'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:04:00 GMT
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Wasn't Grabner accused of murdering 3 million people at
Auschwitz?  Yet, how could this be, seeing that he was only
the head of the so-called political department.  Wasn't Grabner
also under investigation by SS judicial authoritites for his
various abuses of position and authority within the camp, and
wasn't he formally charged by the same SS authorities?  Was
Grabner named in the affadavit submitted to the SS Judicial
Investigations committee by one Eleanor Hodyss, who also named
Hoess as his accomplice?  And was not Hoess also under investigation
by the same authoritities, by order of Heinrich Himmler himself?  Did not
Hans Stark also testifiy that if he didn't throw in the pellets, that Grabner
or Hoess told him they would throw him the chamber as well?  Just asking,
as I don't happen to have the text of his testimony in front of me, and am
relying on memory.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:07 PST 1996
Article: 80429 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Umfallen" and deliberate mistranslation
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:26:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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All this quibbling!  Of course, the real issue at hand here is not
whether "Umfallen" means "to die, or "collapse from exhaustion".
In fact,  it means the latter, and the use of "gefallen" means that 
someone has died in action.  The REAL issue at hand here is whether
Himmler ever uttered the words attributed to him at Posen.  There
are, in fact, two versions of the same speech given at Posen, and
when comparing the two, one may see that there is a difference
in style and delivery.  I recently heard the audio version of Himmler
making this alleged speech, and I must say that I was thoroughly
disappointed.  The quality is horrendous, and I can see why one of
the SS officers allegedly present at this speech was incapable of
determining whether the voice in question was actually that of Himmler.
Oswald Pohl, who also claimed to be present at this speech, remarked 
that he had no idea what Himmler was even talking about!

This speech is a very poor source to rely on in an attempt to prove that
the Nazis were methodically carrying out a program of deliberately calcu-
lated mass murder.  Even if Himmler uttered these words, what makes this
speech any different from Ilya Ehrenburg's exhortations to mass murder or
the hateful proclamations of Henry Morgenthau and Theodore Kaufmann?
People are always so quick to shout out evil personified when the subject
happens to be a "Nazi", much as the Nazis attributed evil personified to
the shadowy figure of the "Jew".  Since over 50 years have elapsed since 
the end of hostilities between the Axis and the Allies, I would think that
a more enlightened and non-biased approach to examining the historical
records would be in good order.




From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:08 PST 1996
Article: 80431 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:12:13 GMT
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
  at Belzec
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
  1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
  would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
  with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
  spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
  work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
  I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly>  that they had come from the 
Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
  extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
  killed at the the camp at Belzec...

Well, this is curious in itself, as most of the Jews were allegedly killed
at Auschwitz, not Belzec.  It makes me question his source.  At any rate,
this is second had information.
  
  During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
  Polizieihauptmann named Wirth,

Curiously, Wirth, disappeared from the pages of time, never to be
found again.

 who also showed and explained to me the
  extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
  morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
  camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
  asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
  actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
  planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
  extermination actions.

Of course this report exists?

 In order to write a report I had, however,
>  first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
>  spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
>  morning.
>  
>  A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
>  cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
>  or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
>  were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
>  into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
>  their shoes...

Mr. Keren can confirm that Jews were deported from these areas in
1942?
>  
>  After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
>  women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
>  shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
>  where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
>  women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
>  procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
>  hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
>  centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
>  the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
>  Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
>  brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
>  killed here...
>  
>  Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
>  channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
>  building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
>  windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
>  that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
>  into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
>  was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
>  Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
>  but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
>  glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
>  the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
>  to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
>  would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
>  to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
>  chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
>  the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
>  something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
>  thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.
>  
>>>>Well, this sounds horrific, but can it be confirmed independently by
evidence, as well as other statements by other witnesses?  Also, how did
Pfannenstiel happen to make this statement?



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:09 PST 1996
Article: 80433 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The tins were filled to the brim with blue granules'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:51:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  
>  Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
>  Krema I in Auschwitz
>  [Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>   ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
>  Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
>  hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
>  inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
>  to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
>  the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
>  opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
>  were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
>  of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
>  started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
>  death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.
>  
>>>>
Pery Broad is not the best of witnesses.  As is customary in
cases of this type, he initially denied that people were ever
gassed at Auschwitz, then changed and said that people
were gassed but he didn't have anything to do with it.  He is
not credible.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:10 PST 1996
Article: 80435 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Some bodies fell out'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:09:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig, testifying about one of the first 
>  gassings in Sachsenhausen, in which Soviet POW's were murdered
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 54]
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  I was told that the people who had climbed into the truck were
>  Russians who would otherwise have had to be shot. They were looking
>  for a different way of killing them. We then went to another place,
>  where we met the truck again. It was near the crematory oven. I can
>  still remember that one could see through a peephole or a small
>  window into the inside of the truck, which was lit up. One could see
>  that the people were dead.  The van was opened. Some bodies fell
>  out; the others were unloaded by prisoners. Those of us who were
>  chemists could ascertain that the bodies had that pinkish look which
>  is typical of victims of carbon monoxide poisoning.
>  
>>>>
Now, I would ask Mr. Keren to give us a brief history of the man
who made these comments.  If he was ever charged with crimes
himself, or if he "plea bargained" and I would also ask for confirm-
ation of this incident from other sources.  Aside from all that, I would
like to comment that the killing of human beings by means of "gas 
vans" is a very POOR way to embark upon a program of mass murder.
How many of these vans could be built and put into effect?  How many
victims could they accomodate-50-60 at most?  I am surprised that
certain exterminationists continue to peddle this foolish story.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:11 PST 1996
Article: 80436 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I must state that most of them were gassed'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:04:08 GMT
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
  [Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
  Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
  VIII, p. 313-321]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?
  
     extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
     that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
     considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
     time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
     terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
    convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
     I was very much shaken emotionally.

Well, what were these reports?  Has anyone tracked them down?  In
what year were they given and what exactly was said?  I am curious
as it has been maintained that the world was uninformed about the 
extermination of the Jews.
   


   Q. Mr. witness, you were informed about the fact that human beings were
     gassed at Auschwitz?
  
  A. Yes.
  
  Q. Mr. witness, for what reason did you not spread the fact that human
     beings were being gassed and exterminated?
  
  A. I was asked this very often and also before the Supreme Court of 
     Cracow, and I can say in answer to it that that would have been a 
     completely useless undertaking which would have very shortly caused 
     me and my family to be liquidated very quickly,

Well, this is contradictory in itself, as the word apparently WAS being spread.
Gerstein is also stated to have spread the news, yet "no one" believed him.
I find this incredible.

 because the Gestapo 
     was so well organized and the threats for nonobservance of the 
     secrecy that surrounded the Auschwitz exterminations were so clearly 
     worded for members of the SS that everybody avoided telling even his 
>     closest friend about it,

Contradictory.  So how did people know?

 because experience taught us that anybody 
     who talked about it in any way was very quickly found because the 
>     Gestapo sniffed out every rumor very consistently that spread about 
>     Auschwitz.

And?  Do we have examples of what rumors were spread and then
verified and then punished in a court of law?  It was also stated by
the Bonn prosecutor's office years ago that men who declined to
participate in the "final solution" were not compelled to do so.  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  Q. Mr. witness, what would you say if someone visited a plant in
>     Auschwitz twice or three times a year for a period of one or two
>     days? Would he then have to gain knowledge about these things?
>  
>  A. I repeatedly witnessed guided tours of civilians and also of
>     commissions of the Red Cross and other parties within the camp,
>     and I was able to ascertain that the camp leadership arranged it
>     masterfully to conduct these guided tours in such a way that the 
>     people being guided around did not see anything about inhuman
>     treatment. The main camp was shown only and in this main camp there
>     were so-called show blocks, particularly block 13, that were
>     especially prepared for such guided tours and that were equipped 
>     like a normal soldier's barracks with beds that had sheets on them, 
>     and well-functioning washrooms. 
>  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  Q. Mr. witness, did you personally ever witness the gassing of human
>     beings?
>  
>  A. Yes, I saw one gassing at one time.

When? Where?  And a complete description please.
>  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  Q. Mr. witness, you testified a little earlier that those who were sick
>     in the camps, like in concentration camp Monowitz, would be sent to
>     Auschwitz-Birkenau, but I wasn't quite clear as to why they were 
>     sent to Auschwitz-Birkenau. I'd like to put just a question or two 
>     to you on that. Mr. witness, those people who were in the hospital 
>     at Monowitz and were shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau because of an
>     edema or phlegmon, for what purpose were they shipped to Birkenau?
>  
>  A. As far as these people were Jews, I must state that most of them
>     were gassed.

Did he witness it?
>  
>  
>  Q. And, Mr. witness, if they were sent from the hospital in Monowitz to
>     Auschwitz-Birkenau, and they were Jews; and they were sent because 
>     of weakness and collapse, why were they sent to Birkenau?
>  
>  A. Also to be gassed.

Again, did he actually witness it?
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:12 PST 1996
Article: 80437 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Sometimes entire transports were gassed'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:11:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days at Auschwitz
>  [Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert 
>  Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt", By Bernd 
>  Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY, p. 50-1]
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>  The Jews were asked to line up. It was my job to preserve calm and
>  order. The selection was carried out by doctors. The instructions
>  were issued by the commandants or by Grabner. Sometimes entire
>  transports were gassed. At times many able-bodied workers were
>  selected, at other times fewer. The percentage was specified in
>  advance. It was determined by the need for workers.
>  
>  
>>>>
And what happened to Mr. Hofmann?  Did he admit participating
in the gassing of people?  If so, what is his description of the process?



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:13 PST 1996
Article: 80438 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:39:59 GMT
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer
>  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
>  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------
>  Usually the undressing went smoothly. Subsequently, the Jews were
>  taken through the "tube" to Camp III - the real extermination
>  camp. The transfer through the "tube" proceeded as follows: one
>  SS man was in the lead and five or six Ukrainian auxiliaries were
>  at the back hastening the Jews along. The women were taken through a 
>  barracks where their hair was cut off. In Camp III the Jews were
>  received by an SS man... As I already mentioned, the motor was then
>  switched on by Gotringer and one of the auxiliaries whose name I
>  don't remember. Then the gassed Jews were taken out.
>  
>  
>>>>
Of course you have proof to support this man's story, other
than more "eyewitness" testimonies?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:15 PST 1996
Article: 80442 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'It was in a compressed gas container'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:16:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
  [Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
  Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 
  p. 876-886].
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
     by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
     methods were the mercy deaths given?
  
  A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
     formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities
     here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
     etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there 
     killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).
  
  Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?
  
  A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen>     container, such as is used for welding - a 
hollow steel
     container.
  
  Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
     suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
     chambers?
  
  A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's
     basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
     painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
     photographing of the patients, which was only done for
    scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
     chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
     Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
    told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
     20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.


  
>  Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
>     were given?
>  
>  A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
>     brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
>     room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
>     were dead.
>  
>  Q. Then what happened to the bodies?
>  
>  A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
>     cremation and they were cremated.
>  
>  Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
>     dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?
>  
>  A. Yes.
>  
>  Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?
>  
>  A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
>     bath?
>  
>  A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
>     thought that.
>  
>  Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
>     clothes on or were they nude?
>  
>  A. No. They were nude.
>  
>  Q. In every case?
>  
>  A. Whenever I saw them, yes.
>  
>  
>>>>
I have a few problems with this.  If the proceedings
 were photographed,
you can produce the films today, can't you? 
 Without them, I do not find this
testimony credible at all.  Also, if these people
 were hopelessly insane or severely
retarded, what purpose would it serve to "trick"
them into thinking they were
going to take a shower?  Knowing people who
have  worked with the severely retarded before,
 I asked them about this,
and it was their unanimous opinion that such a 
ruse would have been totally unnecessary.
And if carbon monoxide was used so successfully,
why didn't they use the same at Chelmno, Treblinka,
etc. etc.?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 80454 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:19:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56tpre$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
>  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>  Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>  We have - I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
>  taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
>  first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
>  this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
>  mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
>  Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a 
>  matter of cleanliness.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
And this proves what?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 80465 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the people inside were suffocated'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:46:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <56tkcb$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp 
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219]
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
 When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant,
  SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in
  his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert
  Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof
  [Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the
  plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated.  We were to
  keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have
  to reckon with our families' imprisonment and the death penalty...
  
  The extermination camp was made up of the so-called "castle" and the
  camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the
  edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had
  been transported by lorry or railway were first brought...
  
  When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando
  addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer 
  Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from
  Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They
  explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and
  deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then
  went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this
  they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard
  where the so-called "gas-van" was parked. The back door of the van
  would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was
  done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles
  hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast
>  enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver
>  then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a
>  pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now
>  poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were
>  suffocated...
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Conveniently, the only man who could have shed light on
this subject, Hans Bothmann, "hanged" himself while in
British custody......I would be curious to learn the fate of the
other men mentioned in this statement.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:17 PST 1996
Article: 80466 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the screams and groans of the people died away'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:48:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <56tkhf$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Hauptschrfuehrer Gustav Labs
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison gas, edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 87]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>  Then Burstinger, who had reappeared from the cellar passage,
>  came up to me. He ordered me to start the engine and to leave
>  it running for about twelve minutes. I did what I was told, 
>  and a minute later I heard terrible screams and groans coming
>  from the interior. I got frightened and jumped out of the
>  driver's cab. I realized that the exhaust had been directed 
>  to the interior of the van to kill the people inside. Bothmann*
>  yelled at me, "Have you gone mad?". He told me to get back
>  behind the wheel. I did so and waited. I didn't dare to do
>  anything, because I was afraid of Bothmann. Gradually, after 
>  some minutes, the screams and groans of the people died away.
>  
>  * SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hans Bothmann.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann-who conveniently "hanged"
himslef while in British custody in Heide, 1946.  How curious it
is that most, if not all of the people who received eventual blame
for the "extermination" of the Jews, all disappeared mysteriously
or else "committed suicide" while in custody.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:18 PST 1996
Article: 80467 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the thirty to forty women were dead'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:50:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <56tkju$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of SS Scharfuhrer Erich Fuchs, in the Sobibor-Bolender trial, 
>  Dusseldorf 
>  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
>  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 31-32]. 
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
>   ....We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at 
>  least 200 horsepower. we installed the engine on a concrete foundation 
>  and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube.
>  
>  I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the
>  ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running. The
>  chemist, who I knew from Belzec, entered the gas chamber with
>  measuring instruments to test the concentration of the gas.
>  
>  Following this, a gassing experiment was carried out.  If my memory
>  serves me right, about thirty to forty women were gassed in one gas
>  chamber. The Jewish women were forced to undress in an open place
>  close to the gas chamber, and were driven into the gas chamber by the
>  above mentioned SS members and the Ukrainian auxiliaries. when the
>  women were shut up in the gas chamber I and Bolender set the motor in
>  motion. The motor functioned first in neutral.  Both of us stood by
>  the motor and switched from "Neutral" (Freiauspuff) to "Cell" (Zelle),
>  so that the gas was conveyed to the chamber. At the suggestion of the
>  chemist, I fixed the motor on a definite speed so that it was
>  unnecessary henceforth to press on the gas. About ten minutes later
>  the thirty to forty women were dead.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Of course one cannot judge an event or an entire trial on the
basis of this flimsy passage.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:19 PST 1996
Article: 80468 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'there was no longer any escape'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:04:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <56tler$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
>  [Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>  Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
>  smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to 
>  get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
>  Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
>  the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
>  one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
>  into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
>  the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
>  confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
>  to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
>  extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
>  led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
>  any escape.
>  
>>>>
And where is this witness today?  Neither Mr. Keren, nor "The
Good Old Days" tells us.  In fact, "The Good Old Days" title
ought to be replaced with "The Good Old Lies".  Here is a 
curiosity to ponder.  On page 241 of the same book is a photo
which is captioned:
]
"Lorenz Hackenholt operated the gassing installations in Belzec."

Now, the curious thing about this photo shows that the person depicted
is NOT wearing the uniform of an SS man.  He appears to be wearing
a police uniform of some type-probably Gestapo, and he is wearing
the Nazi eagle on his breast.  This was not an SS uniform.  Also, in order
to compare statements, let us compare a statement by SS Mann Kurt
Franz, who was at Treblinka:

"Basically I have never done wrong to anyone nor would I ever have
wished to do a wrong.  I vehemently deny these attacks against me.
I state that the entire thing is a sham.  I believe that I am now being
maligned for the sole reason that I was a member of the SS."
(The Good Old Days, page 249.)

After all that I have read and posted on this newsgroup, I believe him.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:19 PST 1996
Article: 80475 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'That would be more pleasant than to let them starve to death'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:15:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <56tijm$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Letter from Hoppner, higher SS and Police leader in the Warthegau, to
>  SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, July 16 1941
>  [Documents of Destruction - R. Hilberg, Quadrangle Books, Chicago, 1971, 
>  p. 87]
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Enclosed is a memorandum on the results of various discussions held
>  locally in the office of the Reich Governor...
>   
>  Subject: Solution of the Jewish question
>   .
>   .
>   
>  4) This winter there is a danger that not all of the Jews can be fed
>     anymore. One might weigh honestly, if the most humane solution
>     might not be to finish off those of the Jews who are not employable
>     by means of some quick-working device. At any rate, that would be
>     more pleasant than to let them starve to death.
>  5) For the rest, the proposal was made that in this camp all the Jewish
>     women, from whom one could still expect children, should be
>     sterilized so that the Jewish problem may actually be solved
>     completely with this generation.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
Perhaps Mr. Keren will now supply us with a copy of 
Eichmann's reply from this alleged communication from
a man who had no authority to implement policies and
directed his letter to a minor official like Eichmann?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:20 PST 1996
Article: 80476 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:17:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <56tinc$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Otto Ohlendorf, chief of Einsatzgruppe D, testifies about Nazi
>  mass murder in the occupied USSR. Source: IMT Vol. IV, testimony
>  starts at page 311.

SNIP

I wonder why Mr. Keren wasted our time with comments
>from  a man who admitted that he had only been present
at two mass executions?
>  
>   
>  
>   
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:21 PST 1996
Article: 80477 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The bodies were thrown into the antitank ditches'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:20:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <56tit6$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Wilhelm Findeisen testifies about a gassing in Kiev
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 62]
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  The gas van was deployed for the first time in Kiev. My job was just
>  to drive the vehicle. The van was loaded by the local staff. About
>  forty people were loaded inside. There were men, women, and children.
>  I was supposed to tell the people they were going to be put to work.
>  The people were pushed up a short ladder and into the van...
>   
>  I drove through the town to the antitank ditches. There the doors of
>  the vehicle were opened. Prisoners had to do this. The bodies were
>  thrown into the antitank ditches. I am sure that it was in Kiev; I
>  myself took part in this operation.
>  
>>>>
This sounds like an utterly contrived "confession".  "I am sure
that I was in Kiev....."  How nice.  40 people were gassed....quite
the "mass murder" program, wasn't it?  It sounds like a waste of
time to me, as well as an utterly preposterous story.  From the same
people who brought you "Soviet Def Comedy Jam" in previous
posts which can and should be accessed in deja News under rblackmore.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:21 PST 1996
Article: 80478 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:24:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <56tj3q$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
>  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
>  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp.
>  The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers,
>  where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and
>  later burned.
>  
>  About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There
>  were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was
>  called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name...
>  These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas
>  chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt
>  was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In
>  my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver...
>  
>  All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate,
>  about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into
>  the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the
>  Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the
>  Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts...
>  
>  The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt
>  stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine
>  room opened the gas chambers from the other side.
>  
>>>>
So Mr. Keren's latest ploy is to convict the Germans with
their own "testimony" which is as incredible as all the other
eyewitness "testimony" I have examined over the past few months.
The "survivors" had an ax to grind, and the Germans were often
tortured, threatened, plea bargained with, and intimidated into
giving damning testimony, which, after it is examined critically,
turns out to be unsupportable.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:22 PST 1996
Article: 80486 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:12:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <56tpe7$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
>  [The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
>  p. 147-148]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------
>  Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
>  [Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
>  is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
>  Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 
>  60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent 
>  can be used for forced labor.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
Whether these statements are accurate or not is hardly germane to
the so-called Holocaust, as Goebbels had no authority to issue orders
to either the SS or the Gestapo.  This excerpt could even have been
an interpolation due to the curious circumstances under which the 
diary was found.  In any event, Goebbels was not a witness to any of
the events in question.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:23 PST 1996
Article: 80490 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'They were then pushed into the chamber'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:14:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <56tm21$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Johann Schwarzhuber testifies about gassing
>  in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 187]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  At the end of February 1945 I was called with Dr. Trommer to the
>  office of the camp commandant, Sturmbannfuehrer Suhren. Suhren
>  informed us that he had received an order from Reichsfuehrer Himmler
>  to liquidate all the women who were sick or unable to walk. Before
>  giving us this information, he asked us how many sick women there 
>  were in the camp. I explained to the commandant that I had been glad to
>  leave Auschwitz and would not like to repeat that experience. He then 
>  told me that Sturmbannfuehrer Sauer, deputy to the camp commandant, had 
>  been put in charge of the execution.
>  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  I witnessed a gassing. A hundred and fifty women, all at once, were
>  pushed into the gas chamber. Hauptscharfuehrer Moll ordered the women
>  to undress and told them that a delousing was going to take place. They 
>  were then pushed into the chamber, and the door was bolted. A male 
>  prisoner, wearing a gas mask, climbed up onto the roof and, through 
>  an opening which he closed again immediately afterward, threw a can of 
>  gas into the room. I heard groans and moans. After two or three minutes, 
>  there was silence in the chamber.
>  
>  
>>>>
Of course this description disagrees with other statements which
state that the gas was always brought up in a Red Cross ambulance
and that SS men threw the pellets down, not the prisoners.  However,
all is fair and game in the Holocaust.  As to Suhren, it was impossible 
to find any trace of what happened to him.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:24 PST 1996
Article: 80498 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:11:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <56tstg$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <56g5pr$mha$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
  In message <56900t$f17$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> - ibokor 
  writes:

Gord McFee made a valiant attempt to inject a note of
reason into the threads with "rblackmore":

The fact that European Jewry was not exterminated has nothing to do
with
whether the Nazis _tried_ to exterminate European Jewry.  But you
knew that.



rblackmore immediately proved the futility of
such endeavours:


I have to disagree with that one completely. 
If it had been their intention to exterminate the Jews
within their sphere of control, then there would not
have been a survivor left.  The very fact that only
25% of France's Jewish population was ever deported
disproves your thesis.



d.A. catches on:
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>I get it!
>  :>
>  :>The fact that Nazi Germany did not win the war on 
>  :>the Eastern Front proves that there was no war on 
>  :>"the Eastern Front".
>  :>
>  :>The fact that after a siege lasting over 900 days
>  :>Leningrad could still not be captured by Nazi Germany's
>  :>forces proves that there was no siege of Leningrad.
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>Gee, this is easy!!
>  
>  "Facile" might be the better expression.  };->
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
As usual you ignored an uncomfortable situation.  No problem.
People see through the ruse easily.  Facile might be a better expression!


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:24 PST 1996
Article: 80502 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler was a Jew, AND SO WAS MARX
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:18:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <56tta9$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   Robert@cartel.westfalen.de (Robert) writes:
>  guys@beyondcomputers.com.au (Guy Suzi) wrote:
>  
>  >Chris DeNeve  wrote:
>  >>MICHAEL SMITH wrote:
>  >>> 
>  
snip
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Fact is, Hitler wasn't Jewish, but Marx was, although he had
a few unkind words to say about the jewish people that Hitler
would have loved to have quoted.  Who knows?  maybe he did!


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:25 PST 1996
Article: 80504 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:09:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56tp9a$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], December 16 1941
>  [Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman, A. Margaliot,
>  NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem, 1981, p. 247, Nazi 
>  Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>  Off., 1946 Vol. II p. 634]
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  One way or another -- I will tell you quite openly -- we must finish 
>  off the Jews. The Fuehrer put it into words once: should united Jewry
>  again succeed in setting off a world war, then the blood sacrifice
>  shall not be made only by the peoples driven into war, but then the
>  Jew of Europe will have met his end....
>   
>  But what should be done with the Jews? Can you believe that they will
>  be accommodated in settlements in the Ostland? In Berlin we were told:
>  why are you making all this trouble? We don't want them either, not in
>  Ostland nor in the Reichskommissariat; liquidate them yourselves!
>  Gentlemen, I must ask you to steel yourselves against all
>  considerations of compassion. We must destroy the Jews wherever we
>  find them, and wherever it is at all possible, in order to maintain
>  the whole structure of the Reich...
>   
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
These statements by Frank are really irrelevant to the holocaust, as
Frank had no authority to issue orders to either the SS or gestapo.
In fact, as one of my earlier posts proved, Frank only heard of the
alleged "holocaust" after reading of it in a foreign newspaper, and then
approached Hitler about it, who assured him that the report was full
of malicious lies.  See Frank's testimony at Nuremberg.  One again,
Mr. Keren proves nothing except his astounding agility in distorting
and contorting.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:25 PST 1996
Article: 80505 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:13:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56tpfv$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] Diaries, February 14 1942
>  [The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
>  p. 86]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------
>  World Jewry will suffer a great catastrophe at the same time as
>  Bolshevism. The Fuehrer once more expressed his determination to
>  clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish
>  sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that
>  has now overtaken them. Their destruction will now go hand in hand
>  with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process
>  with cold ruthlessness.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
And?  What is this supposed to prove even if it is accurate?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:26 PST 1996
Article: 80510 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Bug in the System Known As Revisionism
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:44:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <56turk$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <56pds0$7ih@basement.replay.com>
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>   nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
>  The Bug in the System Known As Revisionism
>  
>  The revisionists didn't say that Hitler did anything wrong.
>  
>>>>
Whoever mentioned Hitler in all of this?


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:27 PST 1996
Article: 80514 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:04:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <56tsfc$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>  
>  	Material from Institute for Historical Review archives.
>  	
>  	Rudolf Hoss
>  


>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Let's not forget that Maximillian Grabner "confessed" to murdering 3 MILLION
people at Auschwitz.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:28 PST 1996
Article: 80565 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I must state that most of them were gassed'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 09:51:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> 

>  
>  >Again, did he actually witness it?
>  
>  Again, what's your point, Jane?
>  
>>>>
My point to you is that you are a mindless slave.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:29 PST 1996
Article: 80584 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:06:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <56uon4$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3299b497.48259724@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
  In <56tk0v$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer
  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  
  [snip]
  
Of course you have proof to support this man's story, other
than more "eyewitness" testimonies?
  
  How about this:
  
     In the area where the gas chambers were supposed to have been
     located, the commission's team of 30 excavation workers reportedly
    found "human remains, partially in the process of decay," and an
     unspecified amount of ash. Untouched sandy soil was reached at 7.5
     meters, at which point the digging was halted. An accompanying
     photograph of an excavated pit reveals some large bones.
 
     Poland's "Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes"
     reported that "large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among
>     which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of
>     decomposing tissues," were found in the five acre (two hectare)
>     burial area during an examination of the site shortly after the end
>     of the war.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
While it appears that you have answered my question, you have not.
The findings of the "Polish Extraordinary Commission" are about as credible
as their mentor's "The Soviet Extraordinary Commission" of which I posted
many humorous examples in previous posts entitled, "Soviet Def Comedy
Jam".  Even if what was written is true, one would have to confirm cause
of death of the victims.  Onne simply can't assume the cause of death.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 09:19:17 PST 1996
Article: 80611 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lanzmann, kaputt!
Date: 20 Nov 1996 04:04:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <56u00k$4ju@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
>  
>  > The 20 october 1985, page H-17, Lanzmann explain how he filmed Suchomel:
>  > he brough with him a woman, and she hide a camera in a bag. There was a
>  > little hole in the bag. This is his version. It is thus impossible to
>  > film from 3 different distances and get a closed picture of the map in
>  > such a case. 
>  
>  Why? A picture of a map could obviously be inserted afterwards. A woman is
>  capable of moving herself. What is "impossible"?
>  
>  >Obviously Lanzmann lied.
>  
>  Obviously to whom?

To anyone with a brain capable of thinking.  Lanzmann
is a liar.
>  
>  > If he had sue the millionaire Lanzmann, the last one would have claim:
>  > Oh yeah? and you stated yourself that you didn't want to be recognize,
>  > to bad that I filmed you. 
>  
>  Excuse me, but who said Lanzmann was a millionaire? In what currency?

Perhaps you can tell us what he is worth?
>  
>  Your pathetic wriggling certainly justifies the previous posts about
>  your attitude.

Your pathetic wriggling couldn't even pass for dancing.
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 10:25:46 PST 1996
Article: 80615 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'they were sent direct from the platform to the gas chamber'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:08:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56tln2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Stanislawa Starotska 
>  [Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
>  Company, 1949, page numbers follow]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  p. 418:
>  
>
snip
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Thanks for broaching this one.  I will get to it soon.


From rblackmore@juno.com Wed Nov 20 10:25:47 PST 1996
Article: 80616 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:18:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, 
  October 4 and 6, 1943
  [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
  Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and 
  Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, 
  p. 469]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish
  race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish
  race is being exterminated", says one party member, "that's quite
  clear, it's in our program, elimination of the Jews, and we're doing
  it, exterminating them". And then they come, 80 million worthy
  Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Of course the others are
  vermin, but this one is an A-1 Jew. Not one of those who talk this way
>  has watched it, not one of them has gone through it. Most of you know
>  what it means when 100 corpses are lying side by side, or 500, or
>  1,000.  To have stuck it out and at the same time - apart from
>  exceptions caused by human weakness - to have remained decent fellows,
>  that is what has made us hard.  This is a page of glory in our history
>  which has never been written and is never to be written.
>   
>  I ask of you that what I say in this circle you really only hear and
>  never speak of. We come to the question: how is it with the women and
>  the children? I have resolved even here on a completely clear
>  solution. That is to say I do not consider myself justified in
>  eradicating the men - so to speak killing or ordering them killed -
>  and allowing the avengers in the shape of the children to grow up for
>  our sons and grandsons. The difficult decision has to be taken, to
>  cause this Volk [people] to disappear from the earth.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
Back to Posen again!  This is hardly conclusive evidence of an
extermination plan.  There are, in fact, 2 versions of this alleged speech
and both of them differ in content, tone, and style, even thought they were
given only 2 days apart.  The recording said to have been made of this
"secret speech" is unconvincing and does not correspond with Himmler's
hand written notes of the same, which survived the war and may now be seen
at the Smithsonian.  The "damaging" excerpts of a very POOR quality recording
could be the work of a clever interpolater.  The circumstances under which
these recordings were found are highly suspicious.  Many of the Generals
who attended these speeches did not remember that himmler had even made
such comments and others did not believe that the voice on the recording
was that of Himmler.  So, back to the drawing board, Dan.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:38 PST 1996
Article: 80635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 00:34:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <56tjm2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  SS-Untersturmfuehrer Oberhauser on the death camp at Belzec
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 228-230]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
Snip

. Brack stated that the euthanasia
>  programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
>  detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
>  Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would

>  
>>>>
This is an obvious fake, as there is a reference to the Wannsee
Conference, which had nothing to do with exterminating human
beings.  Better luck next time.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:38 PST 1996
Article: 80636 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:05:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <56tlh2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
>  the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
>  [Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October,
>     1940, in August, 1940?
>  
>  A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people
>     from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told
>     me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was
>     explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all
>     incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat
>     Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin
>     to the Gemeinde Stiftung.
>  
>  [...]
>  
>  Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?
>  
>  A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
>     of it.
>  
>  Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar?
>  
>  A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941.
>  
>  Q. What was done during that period?
>  
>  A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different
>     Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas
>     chambers and killed there.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
He was told just doesn't cut it.  We need more proof than that.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:39 PST 1996
Article: 80648 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Horse's Mouth
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:49:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
    This is from the text of a speech by Adolf Hitler given on February 24,
  1943, on the Anniversary of the founding of the NSDAP. The translation was
  provided by the Nazis themselves, and it is quoted in an OSS report from
  Dr. Walter Langer to Col. William J. Donovan. The complete text of it will
  be available on Nizkor soon.
   
  I quote Hitler:
  
  "The same joint front of enemies we had to face in Germany now faces us
  again as an alliance between Jewish bankers of New York, the Jewish
  plutocratic ruling caste of London and the Jews in Moscow's Kremlin."
  Furthermore, "Above all, this war demonstrates incontrovertibly the
  complete identity of plutocracy and Bolshevism, as well as the eternal
  unchanging aim of all Jews which
  is to despoil nations and convert then into slaves."
  
  (OSS report says: In both of the German versions he has much more to say
  about the Jewish menace than is included in the AP text. He is liberal in
  his prophecies and as the war goes on, one nation after another will
  realize the Jewish menace and)
  
  "...just as the German people, realizing this dangr, successfully fought
  the Jewish enemy at home and is now about to finish them off once and for
  all, just so other nations will become increasingly conscious of their true
  selves as the war goes on and will finally make common cause against the
>  race which works for the destruction of them all."
>   
>  Now: would one of those why deny the Holocaust please explain to me what
>  the phrase "finish them off once and for all" means?
>   
>  Sure sounds to me like Hitler is bragging about the total destruction of
>  the Jews. If so, your arguments all fall down, don't they?
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
>                   Samuel Butler
>  
>  
>>>>
Whether this report is accurate or not is open to question,
but the fact remains that the jews were far from finished
off in Europe or anywhere else for that matter.  In fact, Jews
seem to have more influence today than at any other time
during their long and turbulent history.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:40 PST 1996
Article: 80654 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:20:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <56um28$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <56u2eh$802@access2.digex.net>
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>   mstein@access2.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <56tlh2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >>  Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
>  >>  the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
>  >>  [Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87]
>  >>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >>  Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?
>  >>  
>  >>  A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
>  >>     of it.
>  [snip]
>  
>  >He was told just doesn't cut it.  We need more proof than that.
>  
>      A facsimile of Reich justice minister Gu"rtner's copy of the initial
>  order for the euthanasia program, with Hitler's HANDWRITTEN signature plus
>  Gu"rtner's own handwritten note at the bottom, may be seen opposite the
>  title page of Friedlander, Henry: "The Origins of Nazi Genocide: From
>  Euthanasia to the Final Solution" [University of North Carolina Press,
>  1995]. 
>  
>      Does that help?
>  
>      Posted/emailed.
>  
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
Yes, it does, and I have seen the same.  At least one person is still
capable of an honest answer here.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:41 PST 1996
Article: 80657 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, please cite your sources
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:09:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56uosl$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3292d3f2.25290930@news.gte.net>
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>   himmel@strasse.org (Treblinka Veggie Garden) writes:
>  On Mon, 18 Nov 1996 20:00:04 -0500, jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
>  wrote:
>  
>  > Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
>  > jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>  	I have a serious question for you "Co-Webmaster".  How does it feel
>  do discover you have been working nothing for a synagogue and McVay
>  was lying to you all along?  Or did you know it all along and were
>  lying to us?  
>  
>  	It would be desirable for you to answer both questions but one or
>  the other will be sufficient.  
>  
>  =====
>  http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html The Dark Web 
>  Pages of Zionism 
>  http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html Zundelsite
>  http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ to the light
>  http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ Student Revisionist Resource Site
>  http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ Revisionist Productions
>  http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html Reflections upon the Holocaust
>  http://flashback.se/~rislam/ Radio Islam
>  http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html The Leuchter Report
>  http://www.hoffman-info.com/ The Hoffman Report
>  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ Greg Raven's Website
>  http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html David Irving
>  http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith) 
>  http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ Be Wise as Serpents
>  http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html  L'Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
>  d'Holocauste (also in English)  
>  http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ Arthur R. Butz 
>  http://www.air-photo.com/ Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
>  http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html Adelaide Institute 
>  
>>>>
McVay working for a synagogue?  NO!  I demand proof!


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:41 PST 1996
Article: 80665 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:21:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
          Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
              with him about historical facts
          ---------------------------------------
  
  Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
  in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
  his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
  says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
  kill me himself.
  
  Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".
  
  Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
  for all of this.
  
  
   From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
   Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism
  
  [Giwer writes to me]
  
  # Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
  # first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
  # US above all others.  
  
   From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
   Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism
  
  # Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
  # a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
  # the US.>  #
  # The curse is upon him.
  #
  # He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
  # Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
  # security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
  # are no loyal Americans.
  #
  # They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
  #
  # Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  
  
   From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
   Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism
  
  [Giwer writes to me]
  
  # May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
  # apart.  May you know death from drowning.
  
  # And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
  # end of time and from then into eternity.  
  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
It is curious that you ask for support and/or condemnation from what
you call "revisionists", Dan.  Do you really expect people whom you insult
as "Nazi-boys" or "Scumbags" to rush to your defense?  You are living
outside of reality if you ever thought otherwise.  In fact, if you had treated
those who disagree with you with a bit more courtesy, perhaps a few 
people would have spoke up in your defense.  You have fouled your own
bed.  Don't complain if you have to lie in it.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:42 PST 1996
Article: 80674 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auswanderung nach Palestina
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:39:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <56tngr$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <56kgue$d97$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
  Recently a poster to this group suggested that
  Hitler's *real* plan was to arrange for the
  Jewish population of Germany to migrate to  Palestine, freely and taking with them all
  their belongings "without let or hindrance".  
  
  A look at the record casts doubts upon this
  suggestion.
  
  For example, if one turns to
  
  "Das Sonderrecht fuer die Juden im NS-Staat"
  2. Auflage
    Hrsg J. Walk
  
  C.F.Mueller Verlag, Heidelberg, 1996
  
  
  ne finds:
  
  
  I 229  (p.48)
  28.3.33             RWM                   RdErl
  Devisenbestimmung fuer Auswanderer:
  Den Auswanderern nach Palaestina werden folgenden
  Devisenerleichterungen gewaehrt:
  1.  Devisenzuteilung von 1000 Pfund Sterling als Vorzeigegeld.
  2.  Einzahlung -- auf Sonderkonto I -- von 15000 RM uebersteigenden
  beitraegen. 15000 RM werden zur Gruendung einer Existenz in
  Palaestina als notwendig betrachtet.
  3.  Einzahlung -- auf Sonderkonto II -- von Beitraegen bis zu
  50000 RM.
  Die Einzahlung auf die Sonderkonten dienen die Finanzierung des
  Exports deutscher Waren nach Palaestina
  [InfoBl Nr 11  15.9.33
   CV Nr 34       7.9.33
   Bay.Isr.Ztg. 1933  S. 177-279 (T)]
  
  
  I 339  (p.70)
  2.2.34         RStDev[I 3918/34 - RE 8/34]    Erl
>  Auswanderung:
>  Beschraenkungen fuer den Export von Vermoegensguetern
>  und auslaendischer Waehrung aus dem Reich.
>  Die Bestimmungen fuer Auswanderer bleiben wirksam.
>  [RStBl  S.158-160]
>  
>  
>  I 343  (p.71)
>  13.2.34          RStDev[I 5278 Nr. 12/34]     RdSchr
>  Auswanderung:
>  Juden, die nach Palaestina auswandern, erhalten 1000 Pfund
>  Sterling zugeteilt. Der Betrag ist hoeher als die
>  Zuteilung an Auswanderer nach anderen Laendern, weil die
>  Erteilung eines Zertifikats fuer die Einwanderung in 
>  Palaestina von dem Nachweis des Besitzes dieser Summe
>  abhaengt. Die Zuteilung ist auch einer mehrkoepfigen
>  Familie nur einmal zu bewilligen.
>  [RstBl S.192
>   InfoBl Nr.3 27.3.24]
>  
>  
>  I 409  (p.84)
>  23.6.34          RStDev[I 21299/34(Rderl Nr.59/34)]     RdErl
>  Auswanderung: Die Zuteilung von auslaendischer Waehrung 
>  Auswanderer aus Deutschland wird von 10000 auf 2000 RM
>  herabgesetzt. Darueber hinaus ist nur eien mittelbare Transferierung
>  zulaessig.
>  [RStBl S.783f.]
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  These suggest that while Jews wishing to emigrate to
>  Palestine were given access to the minimum funds
>  required to obtain an entry permit for settlement,
>  it was not permitted for them or their families
>  to take their goods, chattels and personal estates
>  with them. As the figures I recently posted indicate,
>  if there had been a policy of assisting Jewish emigration
>  to Palestine, then the laws, decrees and currency regulations
>  and restrictions enacted and/or decreed undermined that
>  policy entirely, as the above already show.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>  
>>>>
Well, I disagree with your assessment.  Whether the Jews were
encouraged to emigrate to Palestine, Britain, America, or Madagascar,
they were not permitted to take goods and chattels with them.  This
has nothing to do with the fact that the nazis both desired and
encouraged the Jews to leave Germany and Europe.  In fact, if
more of them had left prior to the outbreak of the war, less of them would have 
been deported to the east.  As it is, less than 25% of France's Jews were
deported, and less than 50% of Hungary's and much less of Italy's,
who was an axis partner.  In addition, the millions of german civilians
compelled to leave their ancestral homelands during and after 1945 were
also not permitted to take goods with them either.  Times were hard
for everyone.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:43 PST 1996
Article: 80676 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Been Fun
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:40:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Kimberley Ahlf  writes:
>  I wanted to tell you all that I gotta go for a while, not that I will be
>  particularly missed, but because I wanted to make sure that if Kurt
>  Stele (Brian Smith?) ever comes out of hiding to address my criticism of
>  his ideas (or, heaven forbid, ever produce the many pieces of "evidence"
>  he has promised to provide) that my silence can be correctly attributed
>  to my no longer reading this newsgroup.  I'll be off on a project for a
>  while so I won't have the hours to spend in picking appart his illogic.
>  
>  If he ever does reply to my last posts, maybe one of you good souls out
>  there could see fit to respond in my absence.  I know I can at least count
>  on Chuck to put in a good showing.  ;-)
>  
>  Which reminds me:  There's some bad news for all of you 'deniers' out
>  there. I have it on good authority that Chuck Ferree is still in excellent
>  health, which means for some time into the future your lies will have to
>  contend with a man who was there when it happened, who saw the evidence of
>  the holocaust first hand; on many occassions and in many locations.  
>  
>  You still have many years to go before your racist ideology can compete
>  freely against factual history; free of the burden of having to
>  explain-away the living witnesses like Chuck.
>  
>  Sorry.  :-)
>  
>  
>  -ODB
>  
>  
>>>>
Huh?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:44 PST 1996
Article: 80679 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:27:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <56ttr0$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
>  On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 18:12:16 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
>  Morris) wrote:
>  
>  >In <328d5923.18712727@news.gte.net>, Matt Giwer posting as pj@o.rourke
>  >(Leprechaun) wrote:
>  
>  >>	In fact it is so prevalent in holohuggery that it is the rational
>  >>first assumption in any matter regarding it.  
>  >
>  >Given that your reply is unresponsive to the issue under discussion, I
>  >can only assume that you mean simply to disrupt the conversation. Just
>  >remember, you have disrupted the discussion for everybody.
>  
>  Go to hell asshole.  How's that for an interruption.
>  
>  >Very good. You have demonstrated once again that "revisionists" are
>  >loudmouths who have no facts and no arguments, just wild accusations.
>  >You have demonstrated once again that, for Matt Giwer, free speech
>  >means only Matt Giwer and his opinions shall be heard.
>  
>  Got to get rid of that free speech don't we.  Make it just like in
>  Germany and France where if you differ with another's (fraudulent)
>  view of history, you "get in trouble."  
>  
>  Kurt Stele
>  
>  "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
>  of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
>  overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
>  lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
>  
>  Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
>  York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 
>  
>  
>>>>
So!  Suchomel was portrayed by an actor?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:44 PST 1996
Article: 80685 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'It was in a compressed gas container'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:15:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
I have a few problems with this.  If the proceedings
 were photographed,
you can produce the films today, can't you? 
  
  No, Jane. Sometimes criminals destroy or hide evidence of their
  crimes. An intelligent little girl would have figured this out for
  herself. Try thinking a little harder before posting next time.

Sometimes professional liars like yourself continuously distort
the truth, Mary.  You can hide it in the closet all you like, but
eventually, your little secret slips out.
  
 Without them, I do not find this
testimony credible at all. 
  
  That's not surprising; I don't recall you ever finding evidence of
  Nazi atrocities "credible at all." That's why we call you a denier.

Who is "we" Mary?  Is someone employing the dismal likes of
you, Miss Flower?
  
                          Also, if these people
 were hopelessly insane or severely
retarded, what purpose would it serve to "trick"
them into thinking they were
going to take a shower?  Knowing people who
have  worked with the severely retarded before,
 I asked them about this,
and it was their unanimous opinion that such a 
ruse would have been totally unnecessary.
  
  Ah yes. Who, specifically, were your experts on this subject?

Whoever they were or are, they are more credible than the
nonsense you apparently believe in with such religious ardour,
Miss Flower.

>  Did they think that saying "Please go into this room so we can 
>  gas you to death" would have made the job simpler?

For you, perhaps.
>  
>  >And if carbon monoxide was used so successfully,
>  >why didn't they use the same at Chelmno, Treblinka,
>  >etc. etc.?
>  
>  There are lots of ways to kill people. Some are more efficent than
>  others. What is perfectly acceptable on a smaller scale may not look
>  so good on a larger scale. Again, Janie, try to think a little before
>  making yourself look so stupid by posting moronic questions. (Yes, j
>  I'm afraid that there really is such a thing as a stupid question, even
>  if your teachers have told you otherwise.)

Not are there only stupid questions, but stupid answers as well, and
yours always go to the head of the class, Miss Flower.   Are you blushing
with pride, or crimson with shame.  Naughty little girl, let her knickers down....
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:45 PST 1996
Article: 80703 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More lies and tortured confessions?
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:47:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
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References: <56q24b$jrk@access5.digex.net>
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>      Here are two actual excerpts.  I did not make them up.
>  
>      I would like to ask the revisionists: could this be a true testimony
>  from a member of the Einsatzgruppen, or must this be anti-German
>  propaganda or a confession extracted by torture?  What are your reasons
>  for your answer?
>  
>       "[S]eeing a baby ... crawling away from a ditch already filled with
>       dead and dying villagers, [he] seized the child by the leg, threw it
>       back in the pit, and shot it."
>  
>  
>      I would like to ask the revisionists: could this be an authentic quote
>  from Heinrich Himmler or must it be a Soviet forgery?  What are your
>  reasons for your answer?
>  
>       "[I]f your son is killed by those babies you'll cry at me, 'Why
>       didn't you kill those babies that day?'"
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
What does this refer to, may I ask?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:46 PST 1996
Article: 80719 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I have to agree with Goldhagen
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:31:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
>  Hitler's film cameraman took a lot of color photographs, and he
>  described how he went and actually saw a mass shooting of Jews on the
>  eastern front.  It happened because, the evening before, Heinrich
>  Himmler said, "Mr. Franz, how would you like to go and witness a mass
>  shooting tomorrow morning?  We're going to be shooting a few thousand
>  Jews."
>  
>  And this photographer said, "Yes, sure I'd love to go along."  An
>  American wouldn't have said that.  An American, I think, would have
>  said "Mr. Himmler, tomorrow is a bad time for me.  Any other day of
>  the week, I'd love to come and watch what you want to show me."
>  
>  I don't know, but the Germans seem to be of a different mentality. 
>  I'm afraid I have to agree to a certain extent with Daniel Goldhagen,
>  whose book suggests that the German mentality is somewhat different.
>  It's not going to make me friends, of course.
>  -- 
>   Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
>   jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
This is an absurd story.  What were these Jews allegedly shot for?
It seems that I heard this nonsense on a televison documentary
recently.  At any rate, people, including Americans seem to have
a fascination with death and executions....simply examine old photos
emanating from the south when a black person was lynched.  You will
invariably see a mob.  That's why it was called a lynch mob.  Among 
the faces of the spectators you will often see young children brought
to the site by their parents.  Sometimes they are seen munching on snacks.
Whenever there is a public execution, it seems that man's morbid curiosity
takes over, and people flock to view the execution.  Remember the mobs
of people during the French Revolution, who appeared at the beheading of the
french nobility, yelling for more bloodshed.  It is the same in every nation and
every country.  If Eichmann had been hanged publicly, I know that mobs of
 Israelis would have shown up to applaud and revel in his death throes.
Do not the Jews to this day celebrate the feast of Purim, banging images
of the deceased Haman together and hanging him in effigy?
to view the execution.  So, please, Mr. McCarthy, get serious. 


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:46 PST 1996
Article: 80722 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:23:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers
>  in Poland, urging them to write home
>  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>  Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking
>  of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in
>  Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is
>  hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.
>  It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a
>  picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many
>  lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General
>  Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of
>  course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one
>  year's time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you
>  help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not
>  necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and
>  right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who
>  follow us to do?
>  
>  
>>>>
And what is this supposed to prove?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:47 PST 1996
Article: 80729 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 22:05:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  On orders from my department, I too drove a gas-van from Berlin to
>  Minsk. These vans had been constructed with a lockable cargo
>  compartment, like a moving van.
>   
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  I was detailed with the gas-van to about twelve convoys of arriving
>  Jews. It was in 1942. There were about a thousand Jews in each
>  convoy. With each arrival I made five or six trips with my van.
>  Some of the Jews were shot. I myself never shot a single Jew; I
>  only gassed them.
>  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  A ghetto operation took place in the autumn of 1943. I was put into
>  action only once with the gas-van. I made three trips with it to the
>  execution site. I gassed about 150 to 180 people. 
>  
>  
>>>>
When and where did this man give this testimony and before whom?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:48 PST 1996
Article: 80756 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:20:13 GMT
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
          Giwer wants to kill people who disagree 
              with him about historical facts
          ---------------------------------------
  
  Since my opinion about the attack on the USS Liberty,
  in the midst of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, differs from 
  his (I believe the attack was an accident), Matt Giwer
  says I deserve to die, and he adds an explicit threat to 
  kill me himself.
  
  Score one for "revisionist support for freedom of speech".
  
  Needless to say, no "revisionist" has denounced Giwer
  for all of this.
  
  
   From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 09:07:00 EDT 1996
   Article: 121220 of alt.revisionism
  
  [Giwer writes to me]
  
  # Were you at my back in combat I would turn and kill you
  # first as you can not be trusted to have loyalties to the
  # US above all others.  
  
   From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 17:58:06 EDT 1996
   Article: 122260 of alt.revisionism
  
  # Keren of course is an apologist liar for murdering jews and 
  # a traitor because his loyalties are to Israel rather than to
  # the US.>  #
  # The curse is upon him.
  #
  # He and everyone like him has been formally reported to the US
  # Gov and they have no mroe chance of getting or retaining a
  # security clearance than Pollard and for the same reason, they
  # are no loyal Americans.
  #
  # They have all supported Isreali murders of Americans.
  #
  # Their fate should be death but the curse is now upon them.  
  
>   From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sat Sep 21 18:10:17 EDT 1996
>   Article: 122347 of alt.revisionism
>  
>  [Giwer writes to me]
>  
>  # May napalm burn you skin.  May cannon fire tear your
>  # apart.  May you know death from drowning.
>  
>  # And may you live to suffer all again and again until the 
>  # end of time and from then into eternity.  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
It is curious that you ask for support and/or condemnation from what
you call "revisionists", Dan.  Do you really expect people whom you insult
as "Nazi-boys" or "Scumbags" to rush to your defense?  You are living
outside of reality if you ever thought otherwise.  In fact, if you had treated
those who disagree with you with a bit more courtesy, perhaps a few 
people would have spoke up in your defense.  You have fouled your own
bed.  Don't complain if you have to lie in it.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:49 PST 1996
Article: 80823 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? I
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:35:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
         Summary: "Revisionist" Lies About "Nazis Having
                Been Punished For Killing Jews"
         -----------------------------------------------
  
  Recently, some "revisionists" have claimed that various 
  Nazis have been "punished for killing Jews", which "proves 
  that it is not possible that there was an extermination 
  policy, for if there was, how come the Nazis punished people 
  for killing Jews?".
  
  Some "examples" were given, among them:
  
  1) Amon Goeth. One "revisionist" (posting under the alias of
     "rblackmore") claimed that Goeth was "executed by the SS 
     for killing Jews". An outright lie, of course; Goeth was 
     tried and hanged by the Poles after the war.
  
  2) Dr. Sigmund Rascher. "rblackmore" claimed he was executed
     by the SS for killing Jews. Another outright lie; Rascher
     conducted his murderous medical experiments for a long time,
     with the full support of the Nazi leadership (mostly Himmler).
     He was arrested and executed for a completely different
     reason, namely, illegal adoption of children.
  
  Hence, "rblackmore" is a shameless liar, and his two
  "examples" are invalid. But this is hardly surprising; after
  all, he's a "revisionist scholar". 
  
  Now, is it true that Nazis were punished for participating
  in mass murder of Jews? Not really. Possibly the best 
  source on this is the trial of Max Taubner, a member of
  the SS, who participated in the mass murder of Jews in
  Nazi-occupied USSR. I am including an excerpt below.
  
  Now, note that the SS-court, indeed, sentenced Taubner
  to 12 years in prison. However, the SS-court explicitly
  states that "the Jews have to be exterminated", and it 
  specifically notes that Taubner is *not* punished for the 
>  act of killing itself, but for:
>  
>  1) Conducting the murders in a "barbaric" fashion.
>  
>  2) Taking photographs of the executions and showing
>     them in Germany.
>  
>  Here is the excerpt.
>  
>  BTW, Taubner was released from jail after a short time.
>  
>  Excerpts from Verdict of the SS Court in Munich, against 
>  SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943
>  ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, 
>  NY, 1988, p, 196-207]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  1. The accused shall not be punished because of the actions against
>  the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated and none of the 
>  Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although the accused should
>  have recognized that the extermination of the Jews was the duty of
>  Kommandos which were set up especially for this purpose, he should
>  be excused for considering himself to have the authority to take
>  part in the extermination of Jewry himself. Real hatred of the Jews
>  was the driving motivation for the accused. In the process he let
>  himself be drawn into committing cruel actions in Alexandriya which
>  are unworthy of a German man and an SS-officer. These excesses cannot
>  be justified, either, as the accused would like to, as retaliation
>  for the pain that the Jews have caused the German people. It is not
>  the German way to apply Bolshevic methods during the necessary
>  extermination of the worst enemy of our people. In so doing the
>  conduct of the accused gives rise to considerable concern. The
>  accused allowed his men to act with such vicious brutality that
>  they conducted themselves under his command like a savage horde...
>  
>  2. By taking photographs of the incidents or having photographs
>  taken, by having these developed in photographic shops and showing
>  them to his wife and friends, the accused is guilty of disobedience.
>  Such pictures could pose the gravest risks to the security of the
>  Reich if they fell into the wrong hands...
>  
>  
>  Dismissal of the case against the remaining parties, 1 June 1943
>  
>  The following has been established on the basis of the main trial
>  of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner...
>  The following men were party to the punishable acts committed or
>  ordered by SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner:
>  
>  1. SS-Unterscharfuehrer Walter Muller particularly stood out during
>  the shootings of Jews with the brutality with which he tore small
>  Jewish children from their mothers. He held these children in
>  front of him with his left hand and then, with his right hand,
>  shot them with a pistol.
>  
>   .
>   . [three more SS-personnel accused]
>   .
>  
>  Allowances have been made for the fact that the accused were, without
>  exception, acting on the orders of and under the responsibility
>  of Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner. In this respect, their own 
>  culpability may be described as slight...
>  
>  The cases against these accused have therefore been dismissed.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Well, here is Mr. Keren and his distortions again.  Not only was
Taubner condemned by SS courts, but so was

1.  Amon Goeth  (Though his sentence was not carried out.  He
was later re-arrested by the Poles, tried, and convicted.)

2.  Erich Koch, Commlander of Buchenwald.  Arrested, tried,
and condemned to death by an SS court, along with other
aides and accomplices.

3.  Grabner, notorious head of the political section at 
Auschwitz, was relieved of his post and came under charges.
At the end of the war, he was re-arrested by the allies and convicted
and sentenced to death.  

4.  Hoess himself was under investigation for crimes, as was made
clear by the statements of SS Judges Konrad Morgen and Reinecke.

5.  I have posted proof to the effect that German Judges condemned
people to death for the murder of Jews.  One judge noted that the
Jews were entitled to the same protection under the law as any other
persons in Germany.

6.  The wife of Kommander Koch was also arrested and tried by
the SS but was found not guilty.

7.  There are many other examples which will prove the veracity of
my statements.  As to Keren's distortions,

I never stated that Rascher was condemned to death for the murder
of Jews.  I merely stated that he was tried and condemned to death
by the SS on order of Himmler himself.  The charge was kidnapping.
Mr. Keren finds this fact uncomfortable because Rascher is often used
as an example of German barbarity.  In reality, Rascher was an air force
doctor, not an SS doctor, and his experiments were conducted on criminals
(I believe) in order to help save the lives of German service men.  (I believe
that these criminals had been sentenced to death for the most part.  In some
instances criminals were promised a release or remission of sentence if they 
agreed to participate in the experiments.  

Now, Mr. Keren's blatant distortions is one of the main reasons why so
many people are disinclined to believe him and his ilk whenever they
make accusations.  Keep up the good work, Dan.  As we continually
expose your distortions, people may check them out for themselves, thus
hopefully winning over more converts to revisionism.  Didn't your mother
ever tell you that honesty is the best policy?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:49 PST 1996
Article: 80930 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:40:28 GMT
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>   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
>

>  
>  Suchomel testified many times in trials. He never varied. He told
>  Lanzmann that gassings occurred with accurate details. He told Sereny
>  that gassings occurred. He was sentenced, jailed, released. He had no
>  more to do it, if it was untruth. Nothing to lose, and (whatever you
>  might think) nothing to gain.
>  
>>>>
Who knows, in the crazy world of holocaust affirmation, anything is
possible.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:50 PST 1996
Article: 80957 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:36:37 GMT
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snip

  Now, Jamie McCarthy remark: why did Suchomel never sue in law Lanzmann?
  Well, the first explanation may be that he was dead in 1985, he's born in
  1908. But perhaps he was alive. Now, what could he win in case of victory?  That someone dammaged 
his reputation? Lanzmann drived the 'interview'  in a such a way that Suchomel do not appear as a monster 
but as a not so
  bad guy who hadn't any choice. Suchomel spent 7 years in jail and the
  hagas chambers of Treblinka were supposed to be a fact. He certanly
  confessed these one in court to not challendge the autorithy of the
  tribunal, as we know, his only choice was to reject the blame on someone
  else since people prior to him had 'shown' that the gas chambers were
  a 'fact' , prior confessions or jewish witness.

  And now, we have to consider that Suchomel was cardiac, that his only
 wish was to end his life quietly without being submitted to troubles.
  If he had sue the millionaire Lanzmann, the last one would have claim:
 Oh yeah? and you stated yourself that you didn't want to be recognize,
 to bad that I filmed you. His word against Lanzmann word, with the
 press against him, and 99% of the population who would have say: tsss
 tsss, now that he was caught he try desesperatelly to lie! The picture
  is bluerred, but with a rubber mask it certanly looks approximativelly
 like Suchomel. As I said, there is frequent sketch on TV from people
 who use such a plastic or rubber mask, and the imitations are quite
 good, although they are not perfect. But here Lanzmann claim that he took those pictures in Suchomel's 
appartment with a transmitter, and
  that his team in the van received it, and that this is why the image
 is of a so poor quality. This doesn't explain the picture of the map
  from few inches, nor that the camera never shake, nor the 2 different
>  #  distances for Suchomel's face. So if Suchomel was still alive in 1985,
>  #  he hadn't any reason to prosecute Lanzmann. And the voice? who claim
>  #  that the voice is a perfect imitation? It is certanly not a perfect
>  #  one. But it is probably close to some extent. There's dozens of imita-
>  #  tors in Quebec, perhaps hundreds if we count amators. It's a profes-
>  #  sion, it's something that we can learn. If someone give me a quarter
>  #  million dolalrs to play a role and say: you'll have to spend 500
>  #  hours to learn how to imitate a voice, well, that's 500$ the hour.
>  # 
>  # 
>  # 
>  
>  Again, I don't think any comment is necessary (except to point out that
>  Annie Alpert's argument has been quite distorted).
>  -- 
>   Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
>   jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
The kings of distortion have once again struck-this time with the
so-called interview of Suchomel.  Of course it appears to have
 been a complete  fraud.  How
else can the Holocaust be supported?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:51 PST 1996
Article: 80963 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT
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   hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
  On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wri
  SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
  of women
  
  [text deleted]
  

This account, if true, makes me wonder what other horrors Kremer
may or may not have witnessed during the war, such as the bodies 
of german women and children, melted by by intensity of the firebombs
which rained down upon the defenseless city of Dresden. 
  
  Mr. Blackmore is on a roll.  After a protracted and welcome absence,
  he has returned with badly-focused enthusiasm.  Dr. Keren posts a note
  regarding gassing of women, Mr. Blackmore counters with Dresden. How
  tedious.   Burning is indeed a cruel way to kill people. If Mr.
  Blackmore  thinks that his heroic Nazis were not guilty of this as
  well, he ought to see some of the pictures taken at Ohrdruf after it
  was taken by the Allies.
  
  
  Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
  
  Is that so?  Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
>  positive about this.  I believe that he cannot do this.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Harry W. Mazal OBE
>  
>  Nizkor (USA)  An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource


>  
>>>>
There is a difference between criminals and civilians, although I don't
expect a fool like you to recognize that difference.  And indeed you 
don't. Either way you are at the losers end of the stick, and the
 old Holocaust just ain't what it used to be. Of course I can and will
 post proof that the allies initiated theuse of poison gas during the first
 world war as soon as you post proof that the Nazis murdered 6 million
 Jews during the second-or, let me make it easier-try even 2 million.
  BTW, thanks for the welcome back.  Get used to it.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:52 PST 1996
Article: 80964 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'It was in a compressed gas container'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:18:42 GMT
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   hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
  On 19 Nov 1996 23:16:40 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
 Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
 [Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
  Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, 
  p. 876-886].
  
  A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
     container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel
     container.  
  [text deleted for brevity]
 
 
And if carbon monoxide was used so successfully,
why didn't they use the same at Chelmno, Treblinka,
etc. etc.?
>  
>  But it was, Mr. Blackmore.  Read a book. I am told that your library
>  consists of some 145,000 books. Surely you have one on Treblinka.

Annd which one would you recommend?  Steiner?
>  
>  (Mr. Blackmore will respond that he "meant" to say carbon monoxide
>  _cylinders_.  If so, we will save him some time by asking him a
>  question:  "Why would it be inconvenient to use carbon monoxide from
>  compressed cylinders in large gas chambers?"   He can find the answer
>  in his library.  I have it in mine which is much more modest.

You are obviously missing the point.  So be it.  You people would
jump through hoops of fire if you thought it might bolster your
foolish claims.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Harry W. Mazal OBE
>  
>  Nizkor (USA)  An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>  Over 1000 Megs of data: http://www.nizkor.org
>  Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:52 PST 1996
Article: 80965 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:23:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >>  Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers
>  >>  in Poland, urging them to write home
>  >>  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>  >>  Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]
>  >>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >>  In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking
>  >>  of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in
>  >>  Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is
>  >>  hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.
>  >>  It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a
>  >>  picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many
>  >>  lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General
>  >>  Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of
>  >>  course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one
>  >>  year's time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you
>  >>  help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not
>  >>  necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and
>  >>  right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who
>  >>  follow us to do?
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >And what is this supposed to prove?
>  
>  Are you really too stupid to figure that out?
>  
>>>>
Do you think I am?  However, just for the sake of argument,
why don't you answer the question directly?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:53 PST 1996
Article: 80966 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:35:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56tgfg$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >  In continuation to the previous article: not only were SS-men
>  >  not punished for participating in mass murder, they were
>  >  awarded medals for it!
>    
>  >  Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of 
>  >  concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 
>  >  November 1941
>  >  [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
>  >  Press, 1984, p. 99]
>  >  -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >Now, my only questions are:
>  
>  >1.  What is the original source for this document?
>  
>  Just a wild guess, but would it be "Letter from
>  SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of concentration camps,
>  SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 November 1941"?
>  
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
No, that is not the answer.  You have a letter purported
to be signed by Arthur Liebehenschel and I want to know
who found this alleged citation, when, and where....It is
just like you to accept any old trash on face value as long
as it supports your contentions.   You also might try answering
the rest of my question.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:54 PST 1996
Article: 80975 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:31:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56taum$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >>  Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
>  >>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
>  >>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
>  >>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
>  >>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >When and where did this man give this testimony and before whom?
>  
>  
>  You have the reference. Look it up.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Thanks for that instructive piece of advice.  Funny how I never
thought of it.  When I post something in the future and you happen
to ask for the source, I will be sure to give you the same answer, so
don't whine like a baby like you usually do when you get the reply you
deserve.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:55 PST 1996
Article: 80976 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:32:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >I fail to appreciated Keren's point, if there is one.
>  
>  Not surprising. You're terminally stupid.
>  
>>>>
You are so witty, Miss Flower......Oscar would be just wild about you....


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:55 PST 1996
Article: 80977 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:06:45 GMT
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   himmel@strasse.org (Treblinka Veggie Garden) writes:
  	Does Israel still have the version of the Nuremberg Laws to
  prohibits a non-Jew from marrying a Jew?
  
  =====
  http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html Zundelsite
  http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ to the light
  http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ Student Revisionist Resource Site
  http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ Revisionist Productions
  http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html Reflections upon the Holocaust
  http://flashback.se/~rislam/ Radio Islam
  http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html The Leuchter Report
  http://www.hoffman-info.com/ The Hoffman Report
  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ Greg Raven's Website
  http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html David Irving
  http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith) 
  http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ Be Wise as Serpents
  http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html  L'Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
  d'Holocauste (also in English)  
  http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ Arthur R. Butz 
  http://www.air-photo.com/ Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
  http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html Adelaide Institute 
  
I don't know about that one, but they do have a code that defines
a Jew.  Only a child born of a Jewish mother is a Jew.  There was
a case where a woman emigrated to Israel from eastern europe.  The
woman, we were told, had been in the "holocaust".  She died in her
beloved Israel and was buried there.  However, it soon came to the
attention of Rabbis that the woman's mother had not been Jewish-
only the father.  To the stunned astonishment of the woman's family,
the rabbis marched into the Jewish cemetary and dug her very corpse
up from the ground and tossed it out of the cemetary.  What a welcome home!
This story originated in the publication "Jewish Currents".

Also, a few years back, and rather reminiscent of the Nazis yellow
badge, the Prime Minister of Israel, goaded on by fanatical rabbis,
issued a decree that anyone who was a CONVERT to Judaism
had to have their passport stamped with a large "C" to show to
the authorities that they were not really Jews.  In Sammy Davis Jr.'s
case, it obviously wouldn't have made any difference.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:56 PST 1996
Article: 80978 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:09:34 GMT
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >  Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
>  >  at Belzec
>  >  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  >  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
>  >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>  >  When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19 August
>  >  1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
>  >  would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
>  >  with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
>  >  spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
>  >  work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
>  >  I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly>  that they had come from the 
>  >Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
>  >  extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
>  >  killed at the the camp at Belzec...
>  
>  >Well, this is curious in itself, as most of the Jews were allegedly killed
>  >at Auschwitz, not Belzec.  It makes me question his source.
>  
>  Is it of any fundamental importance that Globocnik may have been bragging
>  (as appears to be the case from Kurt Gerstein's record of a conversation
>  with him as well)? 
>  
>  >                                                    At any rate,
>  >this is second had information.
>  
>  Jane, what part of "I witnessed an execution" didn't you understand?
>  
>>>>
Mary, what part of lie don't you understand?  BTW, if I want
your opinion, I'll ask your master, Nizkor.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:57 PST 1996
Article: 80980 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anti-semitic acts
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:45:40 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 47
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   himmel@strasse.org (Treblinka Veggie Garden) writes:
  	Having followed the news reports of such things over the years, and
  having taken the time to look for the follow-up stories, one thing is
  very clear, something approaching 90% of them are committed by Jews.
  In fact it is a rarity to find a non-Jew as the perpetrator of such
  "hate" crimes.  
  
  	Thus, given current events, lets us consider that Krystallnacht was
  perpetrated by Jews, as that is most likely.
  
  =====
  http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html Zundelsite
>  http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ to the light
>  http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ Student Revisionist Resource Site
>  http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ Revisionist Productions
>  http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html Reflections upon the Holocaust
>  http://flashback.se/~rislam/ Radio Islam
>  http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html The Leuchter Report
>  http://www.hoffman-info.com/ The Hoffman Report
>  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ Greg Raven's Website
>  http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html David Irving
>  http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith) 
>  http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ Be Wise as Serpents
>  http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html  L'Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
>  d'Holocauste (also in English)  
>  http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ Arthur R. Butz 
>  http://www.air-photo.com/ Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
>  http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html Adelaide Institute 
>  
>>>>
I do not believe that "krystallnacht" was perpetrated by Jews, unless
you consider the assassination of the German legate, Vom Rath, to have
been the trigger.   However, it is curious that Grynzpan survived the war.
One would think that in the lore of the final solution he would have been
among the first to go.  In another context, here is an interesting story that
appeared in the world press about 8 years ago.  The story went something 
like this:

A vast Jewish mob rampaged throughout the arab district of Jerusalem,
screaming for revenge, beating up arabs, smashing store windows,
overturning vehicles, and calling for blood.  The riots continued throughout
the day after a young Israeli rabbinical student was found stabbed to death.

Echoes of krystallnacht, wouldn't you say?





From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:58 PST 1996
Article: 80981 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: For what its worth
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:51:09 GMT
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For the record, I want to say that I was accused by Mike Curtis 
of distorting the text in the book, "The Belsen Trial".  This was
an out and out lie.  What I posted was EXACT according to the
edition I have in my possession.  Mr. Curtis was of the opinion
that there was only ONE edition, but he is in error.  What I posted
was true and accurate, regardless of whatever edition Mr. Curtis
claimed to have access to....in fact, he claimed to have recieved
his info from another person.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:58 PST 1996
Article: 80982 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I made many complaints to Hoess'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 10:54:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56uo13$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329fd433.56352091@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56tabl$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  >  There is, in
>  >fact, no proof, to my knowledge, that Hoess ever even MET with Himmler
>  >at the time he claims he was given a license to kill....and some researchers,
>  >like Pressac and Van Pelt, I believe, now tell us that Hoess was "confused"
>  >and that the order was given a YEAR LATER than the year we have all
>  >been told it was given in the past....."confusing" indeed!  What a web we
>  >weave......
>  
>  In fact, Van Pelt does not argue that Hoess was confused about the
>  date.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
So what?  Others have.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:59 PST 1996
Article: 81018 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:14:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56tem7$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >>  SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
>  >>  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  >>  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
>  >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >This account, if true, makes me wonder what other horrors Kremer
>  >may or may not have witnessed during the war, such as the bodies 
>  >of german women and children, melted by by intensity of the firebombs
>  >which rained down upon the defenseless city of Dresden.  I have seen
>  >these photos, and I cannot imagine anything more horrific.  Death by
>  >gas would have been merciful in comparison.  Indeed, the allies had used
>  >and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
>  
>  
>  So what's your point? That if Dresden was horrible the Nazis couldn't
>  have killed any Jews?
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Are you asking me or telling me?  What I am trying to do is see if
any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
enough?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:00 PST 1996
Article: 81042 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:46:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
>  Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
>  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
>  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
>  to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
>  give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
>  the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
>  would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
>  prevent the spread of diseases... After undressing, the Jews
>  were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
>  gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians...After
>  the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
>  doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
>  a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
>  Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
>  and the corpses removed....
>  
>>>>
And who made this statement, and when?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:01 PST 1996
Article: 81043 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:47:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
>  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
>  ------------------------------------------------------------
>  As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
>  arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were
>  told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
>  disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
>  to be registered...
>  
>  When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
>  then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
>  gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas
>  vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
>  meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
>  floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
>  which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
>  pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
>  back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
>  van...
>  
>  The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
>  away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
>  exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
>  exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
>  driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
>  early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
>  incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
>  there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
>  had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing...
>  
>  I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
>  anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
>  influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
>  carried out the orders I had been given.
>  
>>>>
If you don't mind my asking, what sort of sentence did this man
receive after the war?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:01 PST 1996
Article: 81044 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I made many complaints to Hoess'
Date: 19 Nov 1996 21:55:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 42
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  
  
  Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
  [Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
  and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
  no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
  the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
  prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
  other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
  parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
  naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
  sent to the gas chamber.
>  
>   .
>   .
>   .
>  
>  I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
>  the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
He made many complaints but was never a part of it?  Or else he
lied that he was never a part of it and attempted to shift the total
responsibility on to Hoess and the doctors?  Yet other witnesses
say that the responsibility rested solely with the doctors.  Others say
with Hoess....and Hoess says with Himmler.....whom Hoess says informed
him of the plan to exterminate the Jews out of the earshot of his closest
aide, Brandt, who curiously never mentions this incident at all.  There is, in
fact, no proof, to my knowledge, that Hoess ever even MET with Himmler
at the time he claims he was given a license to kill....and some researchers,
like Pressac and Van Pelt, I believe, now tell us that Hoess was "confused"
and that the order was given a YEAR LATER than the year we have all
been told it was given in the past....."confusing" indeed!  What a web we
weave......


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:02 PST 1996
Article: 81048 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These people were gassed to death and then burned'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:07:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Excerpt from the statement of Heinrich Ruoff, who was employed in
>  one of the Nazi "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) centers
>  [Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 75]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  My name is Heinrich Ruoff and I reside in the asylum at Hadamar. I
>  began working in the asylum at Hadamar as chief male nurse in 1926.
>  In about the year 1933 Bernotat became supervisor of the Institution.
>  About 1935 Alfons Klein came there and became later on administration
>  chief under Bernotat. In 1940 the program of killing started. Those 
>  people who were brought here were German mentally sick. These people 
>  were gassed to death and then burned. Bernotat instructed the people 
>  who worked there that they were not allowed to say anything about what
>  they heard, saw, and did.
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Apparently they didn't keep there word, did they?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:03 PST 1996
Article: 81052 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wetzel Writes Lohse About the 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 03:52:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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  Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
  [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
  Press, 1984, p. 70]
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that>  Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive 
Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
  Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
  the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
  first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
  apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
  than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
  send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
  Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
  Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
  question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
  precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
  contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through>  your higher SS and Police leader. 
Please request from him the
  dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
  that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
  Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
  office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
  information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
  Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
  [Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
  evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
  fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
  present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
>  without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
>  those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
>  to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
>  mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
>  procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
>  fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
>  the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
>  apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
>  to any further measures you take.
>  
>>>>
I take it you have the response to this letter?  BTW, what ever happened
to Kallmeyer?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:04 PST 1996
Article: 81057 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:12:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <56up3d$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3298b15b.47431597@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56t9rr$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  >>  Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  >>  Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  >>  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
>  >>  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
>  >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >And who made this statement, and when?
>  
>  Just a wild guess, but could it have been in the "Testimony of
>  SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the Belzec-Oberhauser trial"?
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Just a wild and crazy guy......


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:05 PST 1996
Article: 81059 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!'
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:15:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 37
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Philip Mueller writes about the murder of the Gypsies in Birkenau
>  [Quoted from "Auschwitz Inferno", p. 151]
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  One could see that most of the SS-men had a bad conscience. They
>  hadn't shown any scruples about annihilating Jews, the killing
>  of whom was now a daily routine for all of them, yet they clearly
>  found it unpleasant and distressing to help exterminate people
>  with whom they had been on quite good terms up to now. But in
>  this dismal place there was no room for sentiment. The
>  extermination routine took its usual course. [Hauptscharfuehrer]
>  Moll and his helpers cocked their pistols and rifles and, in a 
>  way that allowed no misunderstanding, asked the people, who
>  in the meanwhile had undressed, to leave the changing room at
>  once and go into those rooms in which they were to be gassed.
>  As they took their last walk, many wept in despair, others
>  crossed themselves and prayed to God, and yet others, who even
>  now were unwilling to come to terms with their inevitable fate,
>  turned to the SS-men and, gesticulating wildly, shouted without
>  stopping: "We are German citizens! You can't do this to us!".
>  
>  For a while desperate shouts and cries could be heard coming from
>  the gas chambers until the gas had done its deadly work and chocked
>  the last voice.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Filip Mueller is one of the most unbelieveable of ALL the 
so-called survivors.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:05 PST 1996
Article: 81069 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S ********************************
Date: 20 Nov 1996 01:19:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <56tmbi$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <56sqj1$rio@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  Kurt Stele (kurtstel@micron.net) wrote:
>  
>  : Actually there is so much fuss made about Giwer it simply draws more
>  : attention to his posts.  Considering that most of his posts expose the
>  : Holohoax wonderfully, this is a boon.   
>  
>  Hmmm... let's see.  The last post I read from Matt, before I popped
>  him back into my killfile, read something like this:
>  
>  (paraphrased)
>  "You are a liar, you lying kike jew shit.  Why do you lie?  But then,
>  you are a jew, so that is the same thing."
>  
>  Yep.  Guess it's all up with the Holohoax.
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>Here is a quote from non-revisionist Mark Van Alstine,
who referred to me as a "lying Nazi scumbag", yet you take
offense when someone refers to you in the words quoted above.
Indeed, you should take offense, as should I.  Neither comment,
however odious, either proves or disproves the Holocaust.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:06 PST 1996
Article: 81129 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Oh, the disrespect! DThomas, are you watching?
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:03:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 62
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   jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
 In article <56u00k$4ju@juliana.sprynet.com>,
 rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
 karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
Jean-Francois Beaulieu  writes:
 
  
 Obviously to whom?
 
 To anyone with a brain capable of thinking.  Lanzmann is a liar.
  
  "rblackmore" of course has no evidence to support this claim.  But more
  importantly, both he and Mr. Beaulieu have committed cardinal sin number
  one in DThomas' book:  showing disrespect by calling someone a liar.
  
  How, DThomas, are we supposed to conduct reasoned discourse when faced
  with such shameful disrespect?
  
  Your CODOH site in fact lionizes Mr. Beaulieu at
  .  And what ho!
  What is this?  That page's introduction, penned by one of CODOH's
  editor/webmasters, claims:
  
     Beaulieu's response to this defensive technique was an equally
>     curt and far more appropriate dismissal of what he accurately
>     describes as intellectual dishonesty.
>  
>  Intellectual...dishonesty?  "Dishonesty"?  Did CODOH just accuse us of
>  being dishonest?  Now how are we supposed to engage in discussion when
>  we're being disrespected like that!  Aren't you the same DThomas who
>  wrote yesterday:
>  
>  > The respect, as I have
>  > said before, must be mutual and it must be real.
>  
>  How then to explain CODOH's praise for Mr. Beaulieu's writing,
>  to Dr. Keren:
>  
>     You know, I was close to send a message of protestation to
>     underline a spectacular case of intellectual dishonesty there, but
>     suddenly I realized that I've just confuze you with another guy
>     who's posting regularly for years here. You won't believe me:
>     there's another Daniel Keren who is posting here, a true crank
>     this one.
>  
>  Oh, the disrespect!  We can't possibly work under these conditions!
>  
>  Posted;  emailed to "rblackmore" and Mr. Beaulieu;  please reply
>  publicly.
>  -- 
>   Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
>   jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Well, Mr. McCarthy, I do not answer to Mr. Thomas nor anyone else, so
no use trying to propagandize here.  My point was and is this:  if what
Mr. B. worte is true, then Lanzmann is indeed a liar.  There are liars and
lies in this world and Lanzmann appears guilty of the same.  That's it.  You
Nizkor devotees have no problem calling revisionists liars all the time, and then
you sanctimoniously whimper and whine when the coin is reversed.  How 
hypocritical.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:07 PST 1996
Article: 81137 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 20:10:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 69
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References: <574nkh$7j7@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>
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   uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
  Jean-Francois Beaulieu (jfbe@vir.com) wrote:
  
  For about a week I'm saying here that the movie shoah was turned over
 10 years.

 
 Unless you proove your statement, ie that Suchomel was alive in 1985,
  
  This is amazing.  Mr. Beaulieu sees Franz Suchomel interviewed, on video,
  and he still considers it _our_ burden to prove that Suchomel was alive
  at the time!
  
  A splendid example of "revisionist" double standards of evidence.  Video
  is not enough for these people.  Video!  A video interview with someone
is not even prima facie evidence that he was _alive_ at the time!!
  
  And I saw the video 2 days ago and it prooves that Suchomel was alive
 in 1996 I suppose? 
  
  How silly this can get - but the game of supposing and hypothetical
  theories can be used also the other way round.
  
  Suppose, someone could provide testimony by some relatives of Suchomel 
  that he was still alive in 1985 and that he usually didn't like
  to speak about his duties in Treblinka. But, provoked by Claude Lanzmann,
>  he did speak only to regret this later because he didn't like to be
>  shown in this film. I hear M Beaulieu shouting: - testimonies do not count. 
>  
>  Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz 
>  Suchomel, dated let's say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one. 
>  Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel's certificate. M Beaulieu 
>  or another "Revisionist" will claim that such a document 
>  does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal. 
>  
>  Or, M Beaulieu would ask for a forensic test of it, may be, he'll argue
>  someone has planted such a document in the files. If anyone took
>  pains to provide it he'd ask for another forensic test by a "neutral"
>  commission. (I think Anne Frank's diary was tested independently by
>  several police labs in Netherlands, Germany and Swiss, all with 
>  the same result that it is authentic - little surprise. But the claims 
>  of forgery will be renewed every other month by another deluded deniers).
>  
>  So, when another forensic test would be provided, M Beaulieu could ask
>  for a conclusive prove, that the F.Suchomel in C.Lanzmann's film, the
>  guard in Treblinka, and the person reported dead in that authenticated
>  certificate were really the same person. May be, he'll argue, there
>  had been several persons with that name, or may be there was never
>  such a person, who knows ...
>  
>  Can be proceeded ad infinitum.
>  
>  u.roessler                                       uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
>  
>>>>
I am a revisionist and I will say only this:  until we are provided with
conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant.  People also
confessed to being witches and licking the devils behind.  People can and
do confess to almost everything, up to being abducted by aliens. 
Mr, Lanzmann's film is a long and boring curiosity, filled with statements
by eyewitnesses who miraculously lived to tell about alleged crimes
 which have never been proven by independent physical evidence.
  If such were available the Soviets would have been the first to
 produce it after their embarrassment over the mass murders at Katyn
. In a way, they still got their revenge without even having to prove
 their accusations against the Germans at the end of the war. Take it
 for what it is worth-little or next to nothing.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:08 PST 1996
Article: 81157 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:32:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <572sa3$los@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen
>  ("The Belsen Trial", p. 709)
>  --------------------------------------------------------------
>  The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
>  that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
>  Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
>  Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
>  worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
>  I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
>  other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
>  increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
>  should you care?".
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
You have this irritating habit of reposting the same old
lies and I wonder why....you must enjoy the embarrassment
it affords you.  Herta Ehlert has been dealt with before and
rather decisively, I might add.  She was charged with crimes
herself, and who better to blame things on than the kommandant?
Ehlert, after investigation by yours truly, turns out to have been a
liar as well as a thief.  One of the peole the SS themselves would 
have arraigned had the war not ended.  For those interested in
pursuing Danny Keren's distortion to the final destination-the
Big Lie-merely type in "blackmore" or Ehlert on Deja News and
look for the response I gave to this earlier and then decide for yourselves.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:09 PST 1996
Article: 81170 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, III
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:34:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <56tqo9$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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NNTP-Posting-Host: hd15-115.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Excerpts from the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti,
>  Haj Amin Husseini, on 28 November 1941. The notes were taken by
>  Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt and are quoted in Fleming's "Hitler and the
>  Final Solution", p. 101-104. Also geheime Reichssache 57 a/41, Records 
>  Dept. Foreign and  Commonwealth Office Pa/2.
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>  The Fuehrer then made the following declaration, requesting
>  the Mufti to lock it deep in his heart:
>   
>  1) He (the Fuehrer) would carry on the fight until the last
>     traces of the Jewish-Communist European hegemony had been
>     obliterated.
>   
>  2) In the course of this fight, the German army would - at a
>     time that could not yet be specified, but in any case in
>     the clearly foreseeable future - gain the southern exit of
>     Caucasus.
>   
>  3) As soon as this breakthrough was made, the Fuehrer would
>     offer the Arab world his personal assurance that the hour
>     of liberation had struck. Thereafter, Germany's only
>     remaining objective in the region would be limited to the
>     annihilation of the Jews living under British protection
>     in Arab lands.
>    
>  
>>>>
Well, this never came to pass did it?  In fact, it was the Arabs
who were dispossessed of their ancestral homelands?  A biblical
prophecy come true?  There are also some Jews who regard the
alleged holocaust as the fulfillment of biblical prophecy as well, which
is an entirely different story in itself.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:09 PST 1996
Article: 81182 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore still lies.... Re: Questions rblackmore@juno.com (jbelling@sprynet.net) refuses to answer...
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:51:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
 

  
  To this venomous response I state:
  
     I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.

Why should I, since you do it so well all by yourself?

 Since you cannot,
     you need to retract this statement, or be branded, yet again, a liar.

Branded a liar by a liar?

  Further,
     nothing you have ever said, with respect to the above two claims you made,
     has had a shred of truth.

Well, even that would be more truth than you have ever displayed here.

 Your continual refusal to support your statements,
     and your continual prevarication with respect to your claims merely 
     demonstrates that truth is not something you are interested in.

You simply are not content with my answers.  You want to hear what you
wish to hear.  I will not fulfill your fantasies for you, Mr. Gandhi.  If you want
that lollipop, go back to your mother who spoiled you and ask her.
  
     By the way, your claim that you do not lie or distort is but another lie, 
     or have  you chosen to conveniently forget your little blunder about 
     the Auschwitz Museum ?

There was no blunder.  They maintained a false figure of 4 million dead
for decades, the majority being Jews.  Funny what you consider to be a 
blunder, Mr. Gandhi.
>  
>  Of course, Mr. Bellinger, having once again refused to answer the questions,
>  choses to ask a few of his own, although they HAVE been asked in the past,
>  and they HAVE indeed been answered:
>  
>  > Have you heard from the Discovery Channel yet?
>  > Have you heard from the publishers of WW II magazine yet?
>  > Please share their comments with us.  Inquiring minds want to know....
>  
>  To which I respond:
>  
>     As I have stated in the past, the Discovery Channel, in response to my
>  request
>     for information, gave me the same response they gave to Mr. Van Alstine  -
>     namely that they did not know of the documentary upon which you base
>     your ludicrous claim. Since I do not believe that you are so stupid as
>  to fabricate
>     that particular piece of evidence, I assume that the Discover Channel needs
>     more information regarding the particular documentary (which in fact, they
>     did seem to ask for.) However, since I do not receive the Discovery Channel,
>     and since you have unequivocally refused to provide any further information
>     regarding the Mengele documentary, there is little that I can do. In any
>  event,
>     since I do not dispute that the statement may have indeed been made (with
>     respect to the number of people murdered at Auschwitz), it is entirely
>     irrelevant to your claim that the Discovery Channel is knowingly misleading
>     public, a claim for which you have abnsolutely no proof.

Well, so be it.  I will consider that admission to be the end of this argument.
>  
>     With respect to the publisher's of the magazine of which you speak, I
>  had sent
>     them e-mail (twice) regarding the claims that you made, and have, thus far,
>     received no response.

Gee, I wonder why?  Could it be EMBARASSMENT?  Now you see where all
your lies and distortions lead to......
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:10 PST 1996
Article: 81190 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, II
Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:47:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <574sf8$7n8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  The following photos are in
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>  
>  They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
>  William Hodge and Company, 1949.  
>  
>  belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>  belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>           
>  The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
>  that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>         
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>  
>  Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
>               and Belsen). 
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/
>  
>  Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
>                corpses in Belsen.
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
>  
>  Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
>                II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Her........er's Danny!  Once again reposting old trash that has
been successfully rebutted time and time again.  Note his usual
style-resource to photos which are prima facie horrendous-however,
let's note the following in a brief recap-

1.  His comment referring to fat SS women.
Many of these SS women were employed by the administrative office 
and had little or nothing to do with the detainees.  Also, these women fortunately
did not become infected with typhus or the other dreadful diseases carried by
a great number of camp inmates.  But Danny would clap his chubby little hands
with glee if he had pictures of these same women dying or starving to death.
What a sick little man, who apparently gets his thrills ogling over such
horrible scenes.

2.  Kramer-the kommandant was actually kommandant of Belsen for only
THREE MONTHS, during which he sent a number of appeals for help
to his superiors, which, aside from a brief visit to the camp by Oswald Pohl
and Hoess, resulted in no tangible results, other than the construction of
some new and desperately needed barracks.  Even this was turned against
the doomed kommandant with the pre-ordained sentence.  A lying, perjuring
"witness", one of thousands, later testified in court that these barracks were
really "gas chambers"!  The problem with the conditions in the camp was
aggravated by the inmates, who turned the camp into a huge trash disposal
area, defecating and urinating whenever and wherever it happened to suit
their fancy, thus facilitating the spread of infectious diseases.   Also, when
Kramer was given the assignment as kommandant of Belsen, his superior,
Pohl, misrepresented the situation.  He told Kramer that he was to be named
kommandant over a camp which was to have served as a rest and rehabilitation
center.  Consequently, Kramer thought he would have a relatively easy assignment.
Little did he know that this assignment would lead to his death, though not before
being grieviously mistreated and tortured by the British authorities.  In fact, Belsen
did not live up to the promises made to Kramer by hios superiors.  The seriously ill
were sent to Belsen by the THOUSANDS during the last 2 months of the war.  Many
were infected with communicable diseases, which spread rapidly in the filth infested
camp.  Curiously, camp two in Belsen remained unaffected by the epidemics.  Why?
Because housed in camp two were the original inhabitants of the camp, who were not
mixed with the new arrivals.  That is why one will see many people in the camp who 
appear to be in good condition.  Finally, thanks to Kramer isolating the children from
the adults, they were good health when the camp was handed over to the British
authorities on instructions from Kramer himself, who clearly recognized his
incapacity to deal with a catastrophic situation caused by the influx of ill prisoners
whom he could not turn away in any case.  It is impossible to state how and why the
child in the photo offered by Keren died.  What remains a fact is that the overwhelming majority
of children were in good health.  Note that the British authorities were unable to prevent
thousands of people from dying even with the best medical help available at the time.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:11 PST 1996
Article: 81194 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed'
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:10:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
  In article <56t9rr$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
 
 dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
 Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
  to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
  give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
  the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
  would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
  prevent the spread of diseases... After undressing, the Jews
 were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
  gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians...After
 the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
 doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
  a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
  Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
  and the corpses removed....
>  > >  
>  > >>>>
>  > And who made this statement, and when?
>  
>  
>  Gee... Mr. "Blackmore/Belling/Whatever"
>   
>  I'd suggest a literacy course QUICK!
>   
>  Try reading this part again:
>  
>  > Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
>  > Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
>  
>  "Who made this statement?"
>   
>   SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender.
>   
>  When?
>  
>  In the Belzec-Oberhauser trial.
>   
>  Got any other questions?
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
>                   Samuel Butler
>  
>  
>>>>
Great!  Now that you passed that part of the test try answering these
questions....they are a little harder.....

1.  What happened to Mr. Michel?

2.  What is Emil's last name and what happened to him?

3.  What happened to Erich Bauer?

4.  Where are the written orders which instructed these
men to kill people?  

5.  Where is the forensic evidence to back all of this up?

6.  What was the sentence received by the deponent at
his trial?

You answered the first question loverly.....now, let's see if
you have what it takes to answer the above.  I am waiting.....
Won't you step into my parlour........


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:12 PST 1996
Article: 81195 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:12:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree wrote:
>  
>  Speaking only for myself the answer to the question is not really!!!
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  clips
>  > 
>  
>    What I am trying to do is see if
>  > any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
>  > Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
>  > enough?
>  
>  
>  Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
>  not happen to the Germans. What happened to the Germans was as I seem 
>  to recall: they started something they couldn't finish, and got their 
>  collective asses kicked. Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans 
>  to be murdered by the millions. That's what happened to the Jews. 
>  Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.
>  BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities in 
>  Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>>>>
Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
yep-pure military targets all right.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:12 PST 1996
Article: 81200 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:19:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <5758th$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >Are you asking me or telling me?  What I am trying to do is see if
>  >any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
>  >Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
>  >enough?
>  
>  War is a horrible thing. Since no one is denying that Germans were not
>  bombed, we haven't an issue there. Do I have concern for the German
>  civilians who were bombed or the English civilians who were bombed?
>  Sure. It would be a terrible way to live. There is no comparison with
>  the German civilians and the Jews. For the Jews  and other specified
>  groups the future  was inevitable.

Apparently not, as many Jews survived the war.

 They were selected and by law
>  treated in a special fashion.

What law would that be, and what is this special fashion
and how is it different from the way Americans treated Natives
and Afro-Americans until 1960?

 But this is what you and your cohorts
>  are denying.
>  
>  posted & emailed
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
I have no cohorts.  I speak for myself, as always.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:13 PST 1996
Article: 81201 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 22 Nov 1996 22:17:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>

>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Mark, you silly little clown....must you still make an ass
of yourself in front of the whole world?  Mark would like
the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for 
those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
of people-his benefactors.  I have never once read of this
man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
or any other civilians who died during and after the second
world war.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:14 PST 1996
Article: 81202 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Date: 22 Nov 1996 18:05:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  [About the testimony of SS-woman Herta Ehlret]
>  
>  # You have this irritating habit of reposting the same old
>  # lies and I wonder why....
>  
>  You have this odd habit of claiming that you know more about
>  what happened in Nazi camps than each and every person who
>  was in them. I guess it's more than just an odd habit - must
>  be some kind of mental illness.
>  
>  # Herta Ehlert has been dealt with before and
>  # rather decisively, I might add.
>  
>  Oh, you're also a very humble guy.
>  
>  Anyway, you claimed that Ehlret was lying, and that commandant
>  Kramer was a reliable and truthful witness. However, he also
>  testified about the murder in the Natzweiler and Birkenau gas
>  chambers. But, oh, wait, you claim that he was reliable and 
>  truthful only when he said what you want to hear, right?
>  
>  You're such a stupid and dishonest Nazi apologist.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Danny, you are such a silly little man.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:15 PST 1996
Article: 81211 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:31:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Speech by Hitler, January 31, 1939
>  [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>  Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol XIII, p. 131]
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers
>  in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into
>  a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth,
>  and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in
>  Europe!
>  
>  
In that case he was a very poor prophet, as the jews are still here and
apparently as numerous as ever.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:15 PST 1996
Article: 81212 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Updates Hitler About the Mass Murders in the East
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:30:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <56tqg3$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  (See 
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images
>  report-51.jpg
>  
>  for a photograph of this document)
>  
>  
>  Report No. 51 of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to Hitler about mass 
>  executions in the east, 1942
>  [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>  Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 269-272]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------
>                                August  September  October  November   
>   
>  Prisoners executed
>  after interrogation            2,100    1,400     1,596     2,731    
>   .
>   .
>  Accomplices of guerrilla and
>  guerrilla suspects executed    1,198    3,020     6,333     3,706    
>   .
>   .
>  Jews executed                 31,246   165,282    95,735   70,948
>   .
>   .
>  Villages and localities
>  Burned down or destroyed        35       12         20       92
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
Well, I would ask for a full breakdown of these figures.  it is estimated
that at least 1.5 million Jews fought against Germany on the allied side
during the second world war.  The figures of the millions who fought in
the partisan movement are vague, but they did number in the millions
as well.  it is time to stop quoting documents out of context and start
supply real facts for people to examine.  Might ruin your game plan,
but thems the breaks.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:16 PST 1996
Article: 81213 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:32:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Adolph Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin,
>  30 January 1942. Quoted in "The Holocaust", by Martin Gilbert,
>  Holt, Rinehart and Winston, NY, 1985, p. 285. Text as monitored by the 
>  Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service, Federal Communications Commission.
>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>  And we say that the war will not end as the Jews imagine it
>  will, namely with the uprooting of the Aryans, but the result of
>  this war will be the complete annihilation of the Jews.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
Fact is, it turned out to be the opposite of what Hitler predicted.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:17 PST 1996
Article: 81215 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 20 Nov 1996 02:27:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
>  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>  Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>  We have - I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
>  taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
>  first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
>  this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
>  mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
>  Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a 
>  matter of cleanliness.
>   
>  
>  
>>>>
Compare Himmler's comments with those of the jewish publisher
Theodore Kaufmann, who wrote:

There is no longer any alternative:  Germany must perish!...This
analagous linking of the people of Germany with savage beast 
is no vulgar comparison.  I feel no more personal hatred for these
people than I might feel for a herd of wild animals or a cluster of
poisonous reptiles.....They are but beasts; they must be dealt with
as such.......(the Germans serve as) "hypodermics through which
the malignant bacilli of Germanism was being syringed into the 
bloodstream....."

Of course, Mr. Kaufmann really didn't MEAN what he said, did he?
And his ideas were NEVER put into effect, were they?
Think again, dear readers.

Quotes from:  Germany Must Perish, by Theodore Kaufmann,
N.J. 1941.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:18 PST 1996
Article: 81236 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:28:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <5758ge$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  > >  Chuck Ferree wrote:
>  > >  
>  > >  Speaking only for myself the answer to the question is not really!!!
>  > >  
>  > >  Chuck
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  > >  
>  > >  clips
>  > >  > 
>  > >  
>  > >    What I am trying to do is see if
>  > >  > any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
>  > >  > Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
>  > >  > enough?
>  > >  
>  > >  
>  > >  Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
>  > >  not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

 What happened to the Germans was as I seem 
>  > >  to recall: they started something they couldn't finish, and got their 
>  > >  collective asses kicked.

Oh, I see.  In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
the Jews.

 Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans 
>  > >  to be murdered by the millions. That's what happened to the Jews. 
>  > >  Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

Simply because Chuck says it.  Remind me to call on your humble
services when the present Pope dies.  It seems we have two infallible
people in this world:  The Pope and the Anti-Pope.

>  > >  BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities in 
>  > >  Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

The big boom.  How aptly put.  Why don't you go tell the 
survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
 Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
 civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
 yep-pure military targets all right.
  
  The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
>  Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
>  ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)

Well, you are in error on dresden.  The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps
higher according to the latest estimates as well as estimates at the time.
>  
>  But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
>  attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
>  tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  These 
are men, women and children....grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
arms, all fleeing for sanctuary.....You have your images confused.

>  In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler's
>  unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

Why don't you tell us more about Poland-which was SO greedy that it gobbled
up a portion of Czechoslovakia at the same time as Hitler, and which greedily
hung on to Danzig, which was never hers to hold on to at all, except by the whimsy
of the allies, and which embarked upon a program of persecution against ethnic
Germans long before Hitler ever invaded their country?  To say that his invasion
was unprovoked is quite naive.


 the Anglo-American bombing
>  against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
>  The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives. 

Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?  If not, then don't
include 6 million more.  You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews
died, much less 6 million more.
>  
>  Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being "pure military
>  targets," that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
>  typically dishonest  distortion by Mr. Belling.

The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.

 Mr. Ferree, as can readily
>  seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
>  were "legitimate military target[s]." 

This was not the case.  You ought to read the comments of British
Air Marshall "Bomber Harris" before you write things which will inevitably
be corrected.
>  
>  In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
>  (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
>  Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining "German morale, plus
>  assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
>  and fouling it with refugees." (Ibid.) 

Oh-so the way to "defoul the refugees" was to burn them alive?  Is that it?
Is this what you are offering us?  Undermine "German morale"?  By burning
alive 135,000 men, women and children?  How quaint.....
>  
>  In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
>  since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
>  been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
>  (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.

And rightfully so.  If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
Don't you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the allies?  No,
you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would compromise your
"special" status for the Jewish victims.  All victims would then be equal and equally
deserving of our compassion and sympathy, and, of course, that is something
you simply can not afford.

 It is not a
>  new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To establish an (ersatz)
>  moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the
>  war against Germany.

And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit 
what you know to be a true fact.

 Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
>  deniers' Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
>  diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.

On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
tales.
>  
>  Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
>  hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion. 

There is no hate on my part.  I am not affiliated with any so-called
hate group and I number people of all creeds and races among my
most intimate friends and acquaintances.  You are not speaking to 
another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
as they are not biased.
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
>  


>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:18 PST 1996
Article: 81273 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!swidir.switch.ch!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:09:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <5767ul$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3295E461.517B@rio.com>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   Chuck Ferree  writes:
  Chuck Ferree writes:
  
  rbl, why must everyone else do your work for you? You lazy bastid!!!
  
  
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   Why don't you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
   alive at Dresden by the allies,
  
  Why don't you post the photos of the people burned at Dresden?

Apparently I will have to do so, since Nizkor seems too cowardly or
dishonest to do so.  Look for it sometime in January.  I have a lot of
scanning to do, and I have been compiling photos to rival anything old
Danny Keren can post.

 You're 
>  so hep on tit for tat bull. One dead Jew starved to death, worked to 
>  death, gassed to death, singled out because they were Jews, murdered 
>  by design,

In case you didn't know, and we all know that you don't care, German
civilians by the hundreds of thousands were starved to death, worked to
death, singled out because they were Germans and murdered by design,
mostly by Jews in Poland hell bent on revenge and with the complicity and
blessings of your old Uncle-not Sam-but Papa Joe Stalin.  It is true that
they weren't gassed to death, but that would have been too merciful.  For
those interested enough to read the details, I recommend the book, "An
Eye for an Eye", by Jewish author John Sack, who vainly searches for
meaning in all the madness.

 doesn't equal German civilians caught in a legitiment 
>  bombing raid.

Dresden was not a legitimate bombing raid, as has been admitted by
British Air Marshall Harris, known as "Bomber Harris".  You ought to
brush up on your history before you open that trap of yours.

 Nobody decided to burn 37,0000 or so Germans to death at 
>  Dresden.

You have your figures wrong.  The real figure is 137,000 and possibly
higher, which means more dead than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
The figures were deliberately reduced to 10 percent of the actual losses
incurred as the allies sought to cover up their own crime of mass murder
in a defenseless open city.  Shame on you !

 The Nazis decided to conduct mass gassings and did it, mass 
>  shootings and did it, exterminate the Jews and gave it their best 
>  shot. The old orange and apple stupid trick.

Well, what you say and what you can prove appear to be two 
entirely different things.
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  
>  
>   under heat so intense that the
>  > corpses actually melted together? 
>  
>  That's what happened to Jews who were burned alive by the Germans.
>  
>   BTW, perhaps you will
>  > advise us who the inmatews at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
>  > Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was committed on the
>  > initiative of ONE man who was later punished for his crime.
>  
>  
>  Look it up, dummy. We don't work for you. You wanna know, do your own 
>  research.
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:19 PST 1996
Article: 81292 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgotten Genocide History?
Date: 21 Nov 1996 00:07:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <5706g5$jtl@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <19961120124700.HAA14945@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.96.56
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   waspnot@aol.com writes:
>  Forgotten Genocide History for 8 yr. old Children
>  
>  Instead of Black History Month, perhaps February should become
>   Genocide History Month  wherein all 8 yr. olds would study the
>  Irish Potatoe Holocauste, The Manifest Destiny Holocaust, The
>  Extermination of 60,000,000 Bison & Pronghorn Holocaust, The
>  African Holocauste 200,000,000 Africans exterminated.
>  
>  A separate month should be set aside for the HOLOCAUST as there
>  are actually three more historical incidents of Jewish extermination -
>  albeit strangely forgotten.
>  
>  According to American Jewish Committee Historical Society;
>  
>  1825 the first Jewish Holocaust - Dubnov
>  1880 2,500,000 Jews Exterminated - Dubnov
>  1910 A Campaign to exterminate 6,000,000 Jews
>  & THE 1940   Holocaust  6,000,000 Jews exterminated
>  (the WORST because of the Auschwitz Kadaver Factory capable of
>  rendering 20-30,000 Jews an hour - for a total of 4,000,000) 
>  
>  T.
>  macZugaKausT  cat3wog American-American Houston Texas
>  http://home.aol.com/WASPnot (WASP's anti-WOG Immigration History)
>  http://home.aol.com/SalaryPlan (WASP's anti-WOG glass/iron Ceiling)
>  http://members.aol.com/HistoryNOT (History WASPs want to Censor)
>  http://members.aol.com/WaspWatch (Texacos Shredde Documents)
>  http://members.aol.com/UofHKausT ( Big Six SPC Confidential Secrets)
>  
>>>>
Wouldn't the first Jewish Holocaust begin with the Babylonian exile and
the disappearance of the lost ten tribes?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:20 PST 1996
Article: 81296 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:49:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <577kh7$ln0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <5739i2$13di$3@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <32940568.28868760@news.txdirect.net> - hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry
>  W. Mazal OBE)Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:57:18 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>On 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  :>
>  
>  [proof positve that Blackmore is a liar deleted]
>  
>  :>Mr.  Blackmore is a liar.  Get used to it.
>  
>  Thank you Mr. Mazal, but we were already used to it.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
We?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:20 PST 1996
Article: 81312 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 20:10:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <5751b6$d21@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <574nkh$7j7@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>
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   uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
  Jean-Francois Beaulieu (jfbe@vir.com) wrote:
  
  For about a week I'm saying here that the movie shoah was turned over
 10 years.

 
 Unless you proove your statement, ie that Suchomel was alive in 1985,
  
  This is amazing.  Mr. Beaulieu sees Franz Suchomel interviewed, on video,
  and he still considers it _our_ burden to prove that Suchomel was alive
  at the time!
  
  A splendid example of "revisionist" double standards of evidence.  Video
  is not enough for these people.  Video!  A video interview with someone
is not even prima facie evidence that he was _alive_ at the time!!
  
  And I saw the video 2 days ago and it prooves that Suchomel was alive
 in 1996 I suppose? 
  
  How silly this can get - but the game of supposing and hypothetical
  theories can be used also the other way round.
  
  Suppose, someone could provide testimony by some relatives of Suchomel 
  that he was still alive in 1985 and that he usually didn't like
  to speak about his duties in Treblinka. But, provoked by Claude Lanzmann,
>  he did speak only to regret this later because he didn't like to be
>  shown in this film. I hear M Beaulieu shouting: - testimonies do not count. 
>  
>  Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz 
>  Suchomel, dated let's say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one. 
>  Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel's certificate. M Beaulieu 
>  or another "Revisionist" will claim that such a document 
>  does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal. 
>  
>  Or, M Beaulieu would ask for a forensic test of it, may be, he'll argue
>  someone has planted such a document in the files. If anyone took
>  pains to provide it he'd ask for another forensic test by a "neutral"
>  commission. (I think Anne Frank's diary was tested independently by
>  several police labs in Netherlands, Germany and Swiss, all with 
>  the same result that it is authentic - little surprise. But the claims 
>  of forgery will be renewed every other month by another deluded deniers).
>  
>  So, when another forensic test would be provided, M Beaulieu could ask
>  for a conclusive prove, that the F.Suchomel in C.Lanzmann's film, the
>  guard in Treblinka, and the person reported dead in that authenticated
>  certificate were really the same person. May be, he'll argue, there
>  had been several persons with that name, or may be there was never
>  such a person, who knows ...
>  
>  Can be proceeded ad infinitum.
>  
>  u.roessler                                       uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
>  
>>>>
I am a revisionist and I will say only this:  until we are provided with
conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant.  People also
confessed to being witches and licking the devils behind.  People can and
do confess to almost everything, up to being abducted by aliens. 
Mr, Lanzmann's film is a long and boring curiosity, filled with statements
by eyewitnesses who miraculously lived to tell about alleged crimes
 which have never been proven by independent physical evidence.
  If such were available the Soviets would have been the first to
 produce it after their embarrassment over the mass murders at Katyn
. In a way, they still got their revenge without even having to prove
 their accusations against the Germans at the end of the war. Take it
 for what it is worth-little or next to nothing.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:21 PST 1996
Article: 81314 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:52:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <576ag9$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329f39bd.72727518@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.100.19
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56ttv1$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [re: the claim that Franz Suchomel was portrayed by an actor which
>  these wingnuts now seem to think is conclusively proved by Beaulieu's
>  idle speculations]
>  
>  >Whether he was an actor or not, it is clear that he was a liar in
>  >any event.
>  
>  Could you expand on this? Like offer some evidence of your contention
>  that Franz Suchomel was a liar? Was he tortured? Was he in fear of his
>  life?
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Are you asking me?  How would I know what his inducement was,
if any?  All I know is that it appears everything he allegedly said
appears to be a lie or based upon a lie.  Let's see some forensic evidence
and then we can discuss the merits or demerits of his comments.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:22 PST 1996
Article: 81315 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suchomel:r.i.p.
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:50:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <576acm$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a54628.75907101@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56sc1t$7p7@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >> And the evidence that Mr. Beaulieu is alive is? 
>  
>  > No one. I'm Matt Giwer. 
>  > and Al Baron.
>  
>  You can't be Al Baron unless British jails have Internet access.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
No doubt now you'll be referring to him as "Big Al".


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 81317 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keitel's connfession of guilt and hope
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:47:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
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References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  "Now, at the end of this Trial I want to present equally frankly the
  avowel and confession I have to make today. 
 "In the course of the trial my defense counsel submitted two fundemental
  questions to me, the first one... was: 'In case of a victory, would you
  have refused to particpate in any part of the success?' I answered: 'No, I
  should certaihnly have been proud of it.'
  
  "The second question was: 'How would you act if you were in the same
  position again?' My answer: 'Then I should rather choose death than to let
  myself be drawn into a net of such pernicious methods.'
  
  "From these two answers the High Tribunal may see my viewpoint. I
  believed, but I erred, and I was not in a position to prevent what ought
  to have been prevented. That is my guilt.
  
  "It is tragic to have realized that the best I had to give as a soldier,
  obediance and loyalty, was exploiyed for purposes that could not be
  recognoized at the time, and that I did not see that there is a limit even
  for a soldier's performance of his duty. That is my fate.
  
  "From the clear recognition of the causes, the pernicious methods, and the
  terrible consequences of this war, may there arise the hope for a new
  future in the community of nations for the German people. 
>  
>  -Generalfeldmarchall Wilhelm Keitel, Chef OKW; August 15, 1946, Nuremburg.
>  (Sentenced to death by the International Military Tribunal and hanged,
>  1946.) 
>  
>  (Taylor, _The Anatomy of the Nuremeburg Trials_, pp.537-538.)
>  
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Sad and pathetic words from a man condemned to death without
sufficient cause and still hopeful of a reprieve.  Better luck next
time.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:23 PST 1996
Article: 81326 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on War & Christians
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:11:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <575mg9$3tn@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3295c56b.3098648@news.zippo.com>
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>   ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>   On 21 Nov 1996 17:48:05 GMT, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c
>  anderson) wrote:
>  
>  >Chris Carpenter (ccarp@concept.net) wrote:
>  >:  "Wars are the Jews harvest, for with them we wipe out the
>  >: Christians and get control  of their gold. We have already killed 100
>  >: million of them, and the end is not yet."
>  >: 
>  >:  (Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, Rabbi Reichorn).
>  >
>  >Gee--what is it that makes me think you made this up, Chris?  Why
>  >don't you just go whole hog.  Here--I'll show you how:
>  Why would I make that up?
>  
>  >"We Jews are evil, I tell you!  Evil, evil, evil!  We will not stop
>  > until the blood of the last Christian Baby is drained and mixed in
>  > our matzoh batter, and the last ounce of Christian gold is ours.
>  > BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!"
>  >(The Head of All the Jews in the World, 1996)
>  Why would_ you_ make this up?
>  
>  >There...isn't that more convincing?
>  >Bill
>  No.  Mine is a quote from the Chief Rabbi of France.
>  Yours, in fact, is made up.  
>  Your point is understood but  not well taken here. Unless you can show
>  me that  Rabbi Reichorn  would never say something so arrogant,  I'll
>  stick with his quote.
>  Chris_______________________________________________
>  
>  
>>>>
Do you really expect him to show anything more than the face of a 
deranged clown?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:24 PST 1996
Article: 81332 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:56:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <577hcq$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3297c440.65329052@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > Remember, I own approximately
>  >40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
>  >as is their usual way.  
>  
>  Uh huh. Sure you do. And you're really a thirteen year old girl, too.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Is that a proposal?  Shame on you!


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:25 PST 1996
Article: 81345 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:58:22 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
  In <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

   Remember, I own approximately
40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
as is their usual way.  

  Uh huh. Sure you do. And you're really a thirteen year old girl, too.
  
  
   John Morris                                
   at University of Alberta  
  -
  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
  

By the way, if you'll believe the Holocaust, you'll believe anything.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:26 PST 1996
Article: 81357 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 23 Nov 1996 20:45:43 GMT
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:  
  
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

    What I am trying to do is see if
 any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
 Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
 enough?

  
  Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
  not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

  Well, for a start, some three million "Aryan" German civilians weren't
  deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap.  The fact is that millions of
German civilians WERE forcibly expelled from their homes, robbed of their
money and property, murdered by the hundreds of thousands in concentration
camps to which they were sent AFTER the war ended.  There, they were worked,
beaten, starved, and tortured to death.  Men, women, and children.  And most of
these camps were run by Jews every bit as murderous as you claim Josef Mengele
to have been, and some of them are currently hiding out in Israel today, wanted
by the legal authorities in Poland...Some are living in the USA.  Each and every one
a mass murderer, installed in their bloody positions and exalted by Old Papa Joe
Stalin.  Here is the name of one of the murderers currently wanted for questioning
in Poland:  Shlomo Morel.  Here is a quote from Shlomo, who was in charge of
one of the extermination camps in Poland:

"What the Germans couldn't do in five years at Auschwitz, I've done in 5
months at Schwientochlowitz."  (An Eye for an Eye, page 107, John Sack)

Germans were made to wear swastikas on their backs and arms, as the Jews
were once compelled to wear the star of David.  Though the murdered Germans
weren't gassed, gassing would have be merciful compared to the torments and
tortures they were forced to endure until death granted them the boon of release.
  
  What happened to the Germans was as I seem 
  to recall: they started something they couldn't finish, and got their 
  collective asses kicked.
 
 Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
 the Jews.
  
  Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you're words
  don't make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand:  The Nazis claimed it was
the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were 
"getting their asses kicked" in the Soviet Union.  Capisce?
 
  Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans 
  to be murdered by the millions. That's what happened to the Jews.
  Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

 Simply because Chuck says it.  
  
  Er, no. The Holocaust did not happen _because_ Mr. Ferree says it did.
  That is simply _you're_ being disingenous and putting words into his
  mouth. Mr. Ferree, if I my be so bold, has said the Holocaust happened
  because the historical evidence indicates that it happened. It just so
  happens that Mr. Ferree happened to see some of that evidence firsthand. 

No.  Beg to disagree.  Mr. Feree, as we have all so often been told, says that the
Holocaust happened, because he saw it happen.  he was here, he was there, he
was everywhere, and whatever SHAEF told him was good enough for him, and now
it ought to be good enough for us too.  He saw Maidanek, he saw Auschwitz, he saw belsen,
he saw Buchenwald, he saw the human skin tattoos, which are now know to have
been goatskin, he saw the "Bitch of Buchenwald", but didn't realize that the SS
juduicial authorities had tried and executed her husband for crimes, murder among
them.  He saw the "gas chambers", but never did have it explained to him how exactly 
they worked.  He never saw any demonstrations.  He only believed with the simple faith
of a choirboy.
  
 Remind me to call on your humble services when the present Pope dies. 
 It seems we have two infallible people in this world:  The Pope and the 
 Anti-Pope.
  
  Ah, when all else fails, Mr. Belling, resorts to ad hominems. (Also a not  uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

I had good teachers: Nizkor devotees.  To the browser, stick around a 
while and see how this works.
 
 BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities 
 in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

 The big boom.  How aptly put.  Why don't you go tell the 
 survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
  
  Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
  of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
  them? 

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
whatever family she has left.
  
  Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
  civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
  yep-pure military targets all right.
   
  The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
 Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
  ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)
 
 Well, you are in error on dresden.  
  
  Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
  amusing! Sherry's _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
  in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
  in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
  Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.) 

Listen, Mr. Marky Mark:  The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned for the
figures released by the German authorities at the time of the bombing.  The figure was
stated publicly on National News Services at least twice over the past 5 years.  Believe
it if you want, or don't if you don't want.  It is all the same to me.  BTW, I already referred
you to the comments made by the Senior British Officer in charge of planning the whole
raid.  If you choose to believ your source, go ahead.  For the sake of the browsers,
however, the real figure was closer to 135,000, perhaps higher.  There never was an 
air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole history of modern warfare.
  
 The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest 
 estimates as well as estimates at the time.
  
  _Who's_ "latest" estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum's,
  that's for sure! As for "estimates at the time," the Nazis origionally
  claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
 Communists claimed 350,000.
  
  Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered propaganda. 

You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.
  
  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001
  
  But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
  attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
  tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  These 
are men, women and children....grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
 arms, all fleeing for sanctuary.....You have your images confused.
 
  I'm afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the Axis. 

The "citizens" were civilians.  Your images are confused.  
  
  According to _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
  
  "...the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
  World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany  and Fascist Italy
  (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
  (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)" 
  
  I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly  _ignorant_ of
  history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
  Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
  longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality? 

And who classifies babes in arms as the "axis"-you?
  
  In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler's
  unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

 Why don't you tell us more about Poland... 
  
  [Mr. Belling's boorish Nazi apologia snipped]
  
Censoring the truth again, Mark?  People can look it up in the
previous post.
   
  
  More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
  simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
  suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn't even have the class to
  declare war on Poland first. 

Oh, really, Mr. Van, spare us your aged limburger cheese like rehash of allied
propaganda.  We have all heard it and we are all bored with it.  Tell it to your
grandchildren around a campfire.
 
  the Anglo-American bombing
  against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
  The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives. 

 Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?  
  
  Oh, no, Mr. Belling, surely I'm not! 
  
 If not, then don't include 6 million more.  
>  
>  Why not, Mr. Belling? Six million gentiles died at the hands of the Nazis,
>  just like aproxinately 6 million Jews did. Or do _you_ think the Holocaust
>  is only about Jews? 


>  
>  > You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews died, much less 6 million 
>  > more.
>  
>  Er, no. I have no trouble at all in proving such, Mr. Belling, as the
snip
 If _you_ claim
>  that 12 milliom people did _not_ die in the Holocaust, then _you_ must
>  prove so. (Of course, you seem to have a little _problem_ with the concept
>  of _proof_....) 

No, YOU do.  Where is it?
>  
>  > >  Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being "pure military
>  > >  targets," that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
>  > >  typically dishonest  distortion by Mr. Belling.
>  > 
>  > The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.
>  
>  Er, no, Mr. Belling. Symantically speaking, "legitimate military target"
>  is by no means the equivalent to "pure military targets." Nor, militarily
>  speaking, is it the same. A legitimate military target, for example, could
>  be a city with a rail nexus supporting military operations. Or a city that
>  has war production industries. Dresden qualified on both accounts. A
>  _purely_ military target, for example, would be military units in the
>  field. 

Yawn.  fart.
>  
>  > >  Mr. Ferree, as can readily
>  > >  seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
>  > >  were "legitimate military target[s]." 
>  > 
>  > This was not the case....  
>  
>  Or you suggesting, Mr. Bellinger, that Dresden was _not_ a rail nexus used
>  to support military operation and that it did _not_ have war production
>  industries? Please, feel free to offer detailed evidence that this was
>  indeed the case. Amuse me.

You have amused all of us enough for one afternoon, I think.  Peddle your
jokes at the comedy store.  
>  
>  > You ought to read the comments of British Air Marshall "Bomber Harris" 
>  > before you write things which will inevitably be corrected.
>  
>  I have read comments by Air Marshal Harris, Mr. Belling. I have also read
>  comments by Sherry on Air Marshal Harris: "...Harris, who at least had the
>  virtue of an ugly honesty rare in high circles, was closer to the mark in
>  his memoirs, when he referred to the 'destruction of factories' as only 'a
>  bonus.' (Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.154.) 
>  
>  I have also, Mr. Belling, read comments by Sherry and others on the Allied
>  strategic bombing campaign against Germany. To sum them up, Mr. Belling,
>  you're a joke, and your Nazi apologia in regard to Dresden a farce. 

Of course this is the only argument you can offer.

 Such was total war, Mr. Belling. It was ugly and brutal and
>  merciless. 

Like you.  Then don't whine and complain if the nazis adopted a policy where masses
of Jews were forced to suffer the consequences as a result of their brothers and sisters
participation in the partisan war against Germany.  What is good for the goose
is good for the gander.  Thank you for legitimatizing Germany's roundup of the
Jews.
>  
>  > >  In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
>  > >  (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
>  > >  Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining "German morale, plus
>  > >  assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
>  > >  and fouling it with refugees." (Ibid.) 
>  > 
>  > Oh-so the way to "defoul the refugees" was to burn them alive?  
>  
>  "Defoul the refugees," Mr. Belling? What does that mean? To take away
>  their poultry and burn the poor birds alive? I do believe such activties
>  would be frowned on by the SPCA....

The meaning was quite clear, Mark.
>  
>  > Is that it? Is this what you are offering us?  Undermine "German morale"?  
>  > By burning alive 135,000 men, women and children?  How quaint.....
>  
>  No, Mr. Belling, how brutal and terribly destructive. Air power at the
>  time was a blunt instrument. A sledgehammer. Not a scalpel. There were no
>  "smart" bombs and cruise missle that could fly through windows. Just
>  thousand bomber raids that bombed cities to "dehouse" the inhabitants and
>  "pin point" bombing that considered it good bombing to put a paylod within
>  a quarter mile of the target. 

Uh, ok, Mark.
>  
>  And all because Hitler chose to wage a war of aggression to satisfy his
>  lust for revenge; his xenophobia; and his puerile rationalization about
>  "Lebensraum."  

Uh, ok, Mark.
>  
>  > >  In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
>  > >  since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
>  > >  been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
>  > >  (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.
>  > 
>  > And rightfully so.  
>  
>  Ah, I'm glad to see that you've finally admitted that your are a Nazi
>  apologist, Mr. Belling. Acknowledging one's problem is the first step
>  towrds recovery, I'm told. 

Apparently you will never be cured.
>  
>  > If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
>  
>  And if were not an issue then Nazi apologist would _make_ it an issue.
>  They _did_  make it an issue in fact. They still do, the tired ols saw
>  that it is. You're proof of that. 

And you are proof of the tota lirrationality of the so-called Holocaust story.
>  
>  > Don't you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the 
>  > allies?  
>  
>  What crimes are those, Mr. Belling? The "crime" of destroying Nazism? 

The blind can never see.
>  
>  > No, you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would
>  compromise your "special" status for the Jewish victims. 
>  
>  What "special status" is this, Mr. Belling? The status of having been
>  murdered by the Nazis? If so, it is a "status" Jews share with far more
>  Poles and Russians. 

Really?
>  
>  > All victims would then be equal and equally deserving of our compassion and 
>  > sympathy, and, of course, that is something you simply can not afford.
>  
>  Really? And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your
>  insane Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly...

Who ever asked you to kow tow?  It is I who refuse to kowtow to your
vapid list of lies and distortions.. 
>  
>  > >  It is not a new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To 
>  > >  establish an (ersatz) moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the 
>  > >  Allied prosecution of the war against Germany.
>  > 
>  > And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
>  
>  Feel free to jump on up your soap box and spout your Nazi propag..., er,
>  demonstrate your claims of moral relativism, Mr. Belling. However, I
>  suggest it be a _low_ soap box. That way, when you take the inevitable
>  pratfall, it won't hurt so bad....

I have never been hurt from the contents of your comments, Mark.  You only
hurt yourself....it must be true....you always hurt the one you love......
>  
>  > Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit 
>  > what you know to be a true fact.
>  
>  I'm now a "moral coward" This from a person who is so craven he hides
>  behind a handle? (Pretending he's a thirteen year-old _girl_!?) Really?
>  And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your insane
>  Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly?  

You know as much about me as you know about the Holocaust-zilch.
>  
>  ROTFLMAO!
>  
>  

Keep wiping. 
>  
>  You're such a pathetic Nazi clown, Mr. Belling! A laugh a minute you are!  

A am pleased to see you are so amused, Mr. V.  Pleased indeed.
>  
>  > >  Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
>  > >  deniers' Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
>  > >  diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.
>  > 
>  > On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
>  > tales.
>  
>  Deluded too....
>  
>  > >  Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
>  > >  hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion. 
>  > 
>  > There is no hate on my part.  
>  
>  Suuuure there's not. Uh huh. And bears don't shit in the woods.

I wouldn't know.  I don't hang around where bears shit. 
>  
>  > I am not affiliated with any so-called hate group... 
>  
>  Really? Prove it. 
>  
>  > ...and I number people of all creeds and races among my
>  > most intimate friends and acquaintances.
>  
>  Really? Prove it.  

Not today, Mark, not today.
>  
>  > You are not speaking to another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>  
>  No, probably not. You're too much of a belly-crawling coward to stomach
>  _their_ degree of hatred and violence. You might not even be as insane. 

And you are a judge of insanity?  I take great satisfaction in knowing how deeply
my arguments hurt your cause.  Now it is I who is laughing......and laughing.....
>  
>  > >  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  > >  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  > 
>  > Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
>  > as they are not biased.
>  
>  Suuuure they're not. Uh huh. And Hitler was Jewish too. 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

This was really fun, Mark.  Just like the old days.  We must do this again some-
time soon!


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:26 PST 1996
Article: 81364 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: H.G. Wells on Jewish ancestry
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:14:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: 
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>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
>  
>  > "It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew's ancestors
>  >'never' lived in Palestine 'at  all,' which witnesses the power of
>  >historical assertion over fact."
>  
>  > (H. G. Wells, The Outline of  History).
>  
>  >More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/
>  
>  Oh yeah, right, the site with the complete guide to Jewish Ritual
>  Murder. I must wonder, though, what is quoted from Wells: the whole
>  paragraph, or simply the words "never" and "at all"?  If the former,
>  why are those words in their own quotation marks? If the former, why
>  can't you supply the entire quote in Wells's words? Not, or course, 
>  that any of this has relevance to this conference (I assume you're
>  trying to rehash the old Khazar khrap), but it is interesting how 
>  you disseminate dubious "quotes" without precise sources (what chapter
>  of THE OUTLINE OF HISTORY, for instance?), as well as known forgeries
>  such as the Gus Hall bit. (No, I'm not a fan of Hall. He's a fool, a
>  thug and a traitor, lacking the brains and scholarship of some of his
>  fellow traitors like Aptheker. But there is no evidence that he ever 
>  said what you quoted him as saying.)
>  
>>>>
Miss Flower, why don't you do a little research before you stick
your nose into a subject?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:27 PST 1996
Article: 81370 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Elie Wiesel
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:43:44 GMT
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree wrote:
>  
>  Yeah sure!!! Who you gonna believe: Raven, the proven natsie liar, the 
>  pro-A. Hitler person, the denier of deniers, the guy what asks for 
>  money everytime he posts? Or Elie Wiesel, a Jewish victim of the Nazi 
>  perpetrated Holocaust and an eyewitness to what really happened during 
>  the Nazi years of terror. Eyewitness testimony is far better than 
>  speculation and bluffing with baloney.
>  
>  
>  Greg Raven wrote:
>  > 
>  > A Prominent False Witness: Elie Wiesel
>  > 
>  > By Robert Faurisson
>  
>  
>  This guy lies all the time. He is just another turkey who hates the 
>  Jewish people. 
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  
>  > 
>  > ELIE WIESEL won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. He is generally accepted as a
>  > witness to the Jewish "Holocaust,"
>  
>  ELIE WIESEL was a witness to the Holocaust.
>  
>  Where was Faurisson and Raven?
>  
>>>>
Are you implying Elie Wiesel never solicits for money?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:28 PST 1996
Article: 81371 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a different perspective on Streicher.
Date: 22 Nov 1996 00:39:53 GMT
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   chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) writes:
  	Not that only one heavily researched and footnoted issue using
  reputable sources was introduced in evidence against him.  It appears
  that his crime was researching the article and presenting the results.
  What a crime, a hate crime, the exercise of free inquiry and freedom
  of the press.  
  
  	What an evil person to have found all of the material footnoted in
  his evil article.  
  
  		  The May, 1934 issue of Der Sturmer was
                 entered into evidence as the "worst act of
                 anti-Semitism" committed by Streicher. This
                 entire issue was a feature of the centuries-old
                 accusation that secret sects of extremist
                 orthodox Jews would crucify a Christian child
                 during Passover, using the blood in a ritual
                 ceremony. This accusation is known among
                 Jews as "Blood Libel."
  
                 Considering the number of weird and murderous
                 cults afflicting the United States since World War
                 II, Streicher's charges have great credibility.
  
                Not Allowed To Answer Inquisitors: Streicher
                thoroughly researched this subject, citing many
                 sources with footnotes. His defense attorney
                 asked him to reply to the prosection's charge that
                he had no documentary proof that such crimes
                 were once practiced by certain Jews. Streicher
                 answered: 
  
                     "The sources were given in that issue.
                      There was reference made to a book
                     written in Greek by a former Rabbi
                      who had been converted to
                      Christianity. There was reference to a
                      publication of a high clergyman of
                      Milan. Not even did Jews raise
                      objections to that book.
  
                      Ritual murder is referred to in court
                      files which are located in Rome. There
                      are pictures in it which show that in 23
                      cases, the Church itself has dealt with
                      the question. The Church (Catholic)
                      has canonized 23 non-Jews killed by
                      ritual murder.
  
                      Pictures of sculptures, that is, of stone
                      monuments were shown as
                      illustrations. Everywhere (in Der
                      Sturmer) the source was pointed
>                      out...But in this connection I should like
>                      to say, we never wanted to assert that
>                      all Jewry was ready now to commit
>                      ritual murders. But it is a fact that
>                      within Jewry there exists a sect which
>                      engaged in these murders. I have
>                      asked my council to submit to the
>                      Court a file from Pisek in
>                      Czechoslovakia, very recent
>                      proceedings. A court of appeal has
>                      confirmed a case of ritual murder.
>                      Thus, in conclusion I must say..." 
>  
>                 At this point Streicher's testimony is cut off by
>                 Judge Jackson, who stated, 
>  
>                      "I object to this statement...He ought to
>                      be returned to his cell and any further
>                      statements that he wishes to make
>                      transmitted through his counsel to this
>                      court; he should be held in contempt of
>                      court."
>  
>  	Held in contempt for pointing out that his article was well
>  researched and supported by external sources.  What a "contemptable
>  thing to do.
>  
>  =====
>  http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html The Dark Web 
>  Pages of Zionism 
>  http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html Zundelsite
>  http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ to the light
>  http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ Student Revisionist Resource Site
>  http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ Revisionist Productions
>  http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html Reflections upon the Holocaust
>  http://flashback.se/~rislam/ Radio Islam
>  http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html The Leuchter Report
>  http://www.hoffman-info.com/ The Hoffman Report
>  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ Greg Raven's Website
>  http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html David Irving
>  http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith) 
>  http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ Be Wise as Serpents
>  http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html  L'Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
>  d'Holocauste (also in English)  
>  http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ Arthur R. Butz 
>  http://www.air-photo.com/ Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
>  http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html Adelaide Institute 
>  
>>>>To Nizkor's "handler":
Are you denying that Jews were never accused or convicted of
alleged Ritual Murder?  It would seem that Streicher believed that
these accusations were true.  From the earliest oprigins of the Hebrews
to Messina, New York in our own century, Jews have been accused of this crime.
Many authors of importance have written about it, such as H. Stract, Joshua
Trachtenberg, and Sir Richard Burton.  Strack and Trachtenberg, both
Jewish, deny the charges, and Streicher and Burton disagree. You also
failed to note that this particular issue of the Stuermer was BANNED in Germany
on order of Adolf Hitler himself.  Are you now suggesting that this article
justified the imposition of the death penalty on Julius Streicher?
Better luck next time.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:29 PST 1996
Article: 81390 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 23 Nov 1996 20:47:52 GMT
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:  
  
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

    What I am trying to do is see if
 any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
 Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
 enough?

  
  Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
  not happen to the Germans.

And what was that specifically, pray tell?

  Well, for a start, some three million "Aryan" German civilians weren't
  deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap.  The fact is that millions of
German civilians WERE forcibly expelled from their homes, robbed of their
money and property, murdered by the hundreds of thousands in concentration
camps to which they were sent AFTER the war ended.  There, they were worked,
beaten, starved, and tortured to death.  Men, women, and children.  And most of
these camps were run by Jews every bit as murderous as you claim Josef Mengele
to have been, and some of them are currently hiding out in Israel today, wanted
by the legal authorities in Poland...Some are living in the USA.  Each and every one
a mass murderer, installed in their bloody positions and exalted by Old Papa Joe
Stalin.  Here is the name of one of the murderers currently wanted for questioning
in Poland:  Shlomo Morel.  Here is a quote from Shlomo, who was in charge of
one of the extermination camps in Poland:

"What the Germans couldn't do in five years at Auschwitz, I've done in 5
months at Schwientochlowitz."  (An Eye for an Eye, page 107, John Sack)

Germans were made to wear swastikas on their backs and arms, as the Jews
were once compelled to wear the star of David.  Though the murdered Germans
weren't gassed, gassing would have be merciful compared to the torments and
tortures they were forced to endure until death granted them the boon of release.
  
  What happened to the Germans was as I seem 
  to recall: they started something they couldn't finish, and got their 
  collective asses kicked.
 
 Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
 the Jews.
  
  Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you're words
  don't make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

I thought it was simple enough for you to understand:  The Nazis claimed it was
the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were 
"getting their asses kicked" in the Soviet Union.  Capisce?
 
  Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans 
  to be murdered by the millions. That's what happened to the Jews.
  Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.

 Simply because Chuck says it.  
  
  Er, no. The Holocaust did not happen _because_ Mr. Ferree says it did.
  That is simply _you're_ being disingenous and putting words into his
  mouth. Mr. Ferree, if I my be so bold, has said the Holocaust happened
  because the historical evidence indicates that it happened. It just so
  happens that Mr. Ferree happened to see some of that evidence firsthand. 

No.  Beg to disagree.  Mr. Feree, as we have all so often been told, says that the
Holocaust happened, because he saw it happen.  he was here, he was there, he
was everywhere, and whatever SHAEF told him was good enough for him, and now
it ought to be good enough for us too.  He saw Maidanek, he saw Auschwitz, he saw belsen,
he saw Buchenwald, he saw the human skin tattoos, which are now know to have
been goatskin, he saw the "Bitch of Buchenwald", but didn't realize that the SS
juduicial authorities had tried and executed her husband for crimes, murder among
them.  He saw the "gas chambers", but never did have it explained to him how exactly 
they worked.  He never saw any demonstrations.  He only believed with the simple faith
of a choirboy.
  
 Remind me to call on your humble services when the present Pope dies. 
 It seems we have two infallible people in this world:  The Pope and the 
 Anti-Pope.
  
  Ah, when all else fails, Mr. Belling, resorts to ad hominems. (Also a not  uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

I had good teachers: Nizkor devotees.  To the browser, stick around a 
while and see how this works.
 
 BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities 
 in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.

 The big boom.  How aptly put.  Why don't you go tell the 
 survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
  
  Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
  of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
  them? 

I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
whatever family she has left.
  
  Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
  civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
  yep-pure military targets all right.
   
  The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
 Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
  ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)
 
 Well, you are in error on dresden.  
  
  Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
  amusing! Sherry's _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
  in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
  in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
  Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.) 

Listen, Mr. Marky Mark:  The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned for the
figures released by the German authorities at the time of the bombing.  The figure was
stated publicly on National News Services at least twice over the past 5 years.  Believe
it if you want, or don't if you don't want.  It is all the same to me.  BTW, I already referred
you to the comments made by the Senior British Officer in charge of planning the whole
raid.  If you choose to believ your source, go ahead.  For the sake of the browsers,
however, the real figure was closer to 135,000, perhaps higher.  There never was an 
air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole history of modern warfare.
  
 The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest 
 estimates as well as estimates at the time.
  
  _Who's_ "latest" estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum's,
  that's for sure! As for "estimates at the time," the Nazis origionally
  claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
 Communists claimed 350,000.
  
  Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered propaganda. 

You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.
  
  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001
  
  But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
  attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
  tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.

No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  These 
are men, women and children....grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
 arms, all fleeing for sanctuary.....You have your images confused.
 
  I'm afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the Axis. 

The "citizens" were civilians.  Your images are confused.  
  
  According to _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
  
  "...the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
  World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany  and Fascist Italy
  (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
  (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)" 
  
  I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly  _ignorant_ of
  history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
  Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
  longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality? 

And who classifies babes in arms as the "axis"-you?
  
  In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler's
  unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,

 Why don't you tell us more about Poland... 
  
  [Mr. Belling's boorish Nazi apologia snipped]
  
Censoring the truth again, Mark?  People can look it up in the
previous post.
   
  
  More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
  simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
  suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn't even have the class to
  declare war on Poland first. 

Oh, really, Mr. Van, spare us your aged limburger cheese like rehash of allied
propaganda.  We have all heard it and we are all bored with it.  Tell it to your
grandchildren around a campfire.
 
  the Anglo-American bombing
  against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
  The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives. 

 Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?  
  
  Oh, no, Mr. Belling, surely I'm not! 
  
 If not, then don't include 6 million more.  
  
  Why not, Mr. Belling? Six million gentiles died at the hands of the Nazis,
  just like aproxinately 6 million Jews did. Or do _you_ think the Holocaust
  is only about Jews? 


  
 You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews died, much less 6 million 
 more.
  
 Er, no. I have no trouble at all in proving such, Mr. Belling, as the
snip
 If _you_ claim
  that 12 milliom people did _not_ die in the Holocaust, then _you_ must
  prove so. (Of course, you seem to have a little _problem_ with the concept
  of _proof_....) 

No, YOU do.  Where is it?
  
  Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being "pure military
  targets," that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
 typically dishonest  distortion by Mr. Belling.
 
 The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.
  
  Er, no, Mr. Belling. Symantically speaking, "legitimate military target"
  is by no means the equivalent to "pure military targets." Nor, militarily
  speaking, is it the same. A legitimate military target, for example, could
  be a city with a rail nexus supporting military operations. Or a city that
  has war production industries. Dresden qualified on both accounts. A
  _purely_ military target, for example, would be military units in the
  field. 

Yawn.  fart.
>  
>  > >  Mr. Ferree, as can readily
>  > >  seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
>  > >  were "legitimate military target[s]." 
>  > 
>  > This was not the case....  
>  
>  Or you suggesting, Mr. Bellinger, that Dresden was _not_ a rail nexus used
>  to support military operation and that it did _not_ have war production
>  industries? Please, feel free to offer detailed evidence that this was
>  indeed the case. Amuse me.

You have amused all of us enough for one afternoon, I think.  Peddle your
jokes at the comedy store.  
>  
>  > You ought to read the comments of British Air Marshall "Bomber Harris" 
>  > before you write things which will inevitably be corrected.
>  
>  I have read comments by Air Marshal Harris, Mr. Belling. I have also read
>  comments by Sherry on Air Marshal Harris: "...Harris, who at least had the
>  virtue of an ugly honesty rare in high circles, was closer to the mark in
>  his memoirs, when he referred to the 'destruction of factories' as only 'a
>  bonus.' (Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.154.) 
>  
>  I have also, Mr. Belling, read comments by Sherry and others on the Allied
>  strategic bombing campaign against Germany. To sum them up, Mr. Belling,
>  you're a joke, and your Nazi apologia in regard to Dresden a farce. 

Of course this is the only argument you can offer.

 Such was total war, Mr. Belling. It was ugly and brutal and
>  merciless. 

Like you.  Then don't whine and complain if the nazis adopted a policy where masses
of Jews were forced to suffer the consequences as a result of their brothers and sisters
participation in the partisan war against Germany.  What is good for the goose
is good for the gander.  Thank you for legitimatizing Germany's roundup of the
Jews.
>  
>  > >  In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
>  > >  (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
>  > >  Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining "German morale, plus
>  > >  assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
>  > >  and fouling it with refugees." (Ibid.) 
>  > 
>  > Oh-so the way to "defoul the refugees" was to burn them alive?  
>  
>  "Defoul the refugees," Mr. Belling? What does that mean? To take away
>  their poultry and burn the poor birds alive? I do believe such activties
>  would be frowned on by the SPCA....

The meaning was quite clear, Mark.
>  
>  > Is that it? Is this what you are offering us?  Undermine "German morale"?  
>  > By burning alive 135,000 men, women and children?  How quaint.....
>  
>  No, Mr. Belling, how brutal and terribly destructive. Air power at the
>  time was a blunt instrument. A sledgehammer. Not a scalpel. There were no
>  "smart" bombs and cruise missle that could fly through windows. Just
>  thousand bomber raids that bombed cities to "dehouse" the inhabitants and
>  "pin point" bombing that considered it good bombing to put a paylod within
>  a quarter mile of the target. 

Uh, ok, Mark.
>  
>  And all because Hitler chose to wage a war of aggression to satisfy his
>  lust for revenge; his xenophobia; and his puerile rationalization about
>  "Lebensraum."  

Uh, ok, Mark.
>  
>  > >  In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
>  > >  since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
>  > >  been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
>  > >  (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.
>  > 
>  > And rightfully so.  
>  
>  Ah, I'm glad to see that you've finally admitted that your are a Nazi
>  apologist, Mr. Belling. Acknowledging one's problem is the first step
>  towrds recovery, I'm told. 

Apparently you will never be cured.
>  
>  > If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.
>  
>  And if were not an issue then Nazi apologist would _make_ it an issue.
>  They _did_  make it an issue in fact. They still do, the tired ols saw
>  that it is. You're proof of that. 

And you are proof of the tota lirrationality of the so-called Holocaust story.
>  
>  > Don't you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the 
>  > allies?  
>  
>  What crimes are those, Mr. Belling? The "crime" of destroying Nazism? 

The blind can never see.
>  
>  > No, you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would
>  compromise your "special" status for the Jewish victims. 
>  
>  What "special status" is this, Mr. Belling? The status of having been
>  murdered by the Nazis? If so, it is a "status" Jews share with far more
>  Poles and Russians. 

Really?
>  
>  > All victims would then be equal and equally deserving of our compassion and 
>  > sympathy, and, of course, that is something you simply can not afford.
>  
>  Really? And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your
>  insane Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly...

Who ever asked you to kow tow?  It is I who refuse to kowtow to your
vapid list of lies and distortions.. 
>  
>  > >  It is not a new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To 
>  > >  establish an (ersatz) moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the 
>  > >  Allied prosecution of the war against Germany.
>  > 
>  > And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.
>  
>  Feel free to jump on up your soap box and spout your Nazi propag..., er,
>  demonstrate your claims of moral relativism, Mr. Belling. However, I
>  suggest it be a _low_ soap box. That way, when you take the inevitable
>  pratfall, it won't hurt so bad....

I have never been hurt from the contents of your comments, Mark.  You only
hurt yourself....it must be true....you always hurt the one you love......
>  
>  > Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit 
>  > what you know to be a true fact.
>  
>  I'm now a "moral coward" This from a person who is so craven he hides
>  behind a handle? (Pretending he's a thirteen year-old _girl_!?) Really?
>  And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your insane
>  Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly?  

You know as much about me as you know about the Holocaust-zilch.
>  
>  ROTFLMAO!
>  
>  

Keep wiping. 
>  
>  You're such a pathetic Nazi clown, Mr. Belling! A laugh a minute you are!  

A am pleased to see you are so amused, Mr. V.  Pleased indeed.
>  
>  > >  Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
>  > >  deniers' Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
>  > >  diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.
>  > 
>  > On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
>  > tales.
>  
>  Deluded too....
>  
>  > >  Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
>  > >  hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion. 
>  > 
>  > There is no hate on my part.  
>  
>  Suuuure there's not. Uh huh. And bears don't shit in the woods.

I wouldn't know.  I don't hang around where bears shit. 
>  
>  > I am not affiliated with any so-called hate group... 
>  
>  Really? Prove it. 
>  
>  > ...and I number people of all creeds and races among my
>  > most intimate friends and acquaintances.
>  
>  Really? Prove it.  

Not today, Mark, not today.
>  
>  > You are not speaking to another Butler or Bob Matthews here.
>  
>  No, probably not. You're too much of a belly-crawling coward to stomach
>  _their_ degree of hatred and violence. You might not even be as insane. 

And you are a judge of insanity?  I take great satisfaction in knowing how deeply
my arguments hurt your cause.  Now it is I who is laughing......and laughing.....
>  
>  > >  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  > >  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  > 
>  > Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
>  > as they are not biased.
>  
>  Suuuure they're not. Uh huh. And Hitler was Jewish too. 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

This was really fun, Mark.  Just like the old days.  We must do this again some-
time soon!


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:30 PST 1996
Article: 81450 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!nntp.netrex.net!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!news.izzy.net!news.good.net!news.good.net!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:12:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <574tur$7n8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/thekla/images
>  
>  Thekla1.jpg, Thekla2.jpg, Thekla3.jpg:
>  
>  The Thekla atrocity: inmates burned alive by the Nazis.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Why don't you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
alive at Dresden by the allies, under heat so intense that the
corpses actually melted together?  BTW, perhaps you will
advise us who the inmatews at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was committed on the
initiative of ONE man who was later punished for his crime.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:30 PST 1996
Article: 81478 of alt.revisionism
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:09:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <574tq2$7n8@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  (For a photograph of the results of Hirt's "anthropological 
>  experiments", see the web page
>  
>  http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images/MedExp03.jpg)
>  
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images/Hirt02.jpg
>  
>  Letter from SS-doctor August Hirt to the "Ahnenerbe" Institute, 
>  July 14 1943
>  [Presacc, J.C, The Struthof Album, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1985,
>  Page 11]
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------
>  I'm aware of the SD letter, but I must share that, according to a 
>  memo from the Camp commandant, because of a difficulty, the material 
>  for gassing is not present.  I ask you that the appropriate material 
>  be made available, else the matter can not be carried out.
>  
>  Furthermore, I ask for a supply slip for 150 pcs of x-ray film, 
>  format 24x30.  I can probably get the film from the hospital 
>  administration here.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above, I will only
direct the reader to note that Hirt is another one of those mysterious
"suicides" or "presumed missing".  Probably ushered out of Europe
by the "Vatican Connection" no doubt!  Isn't it curious how all the 
most damaging documents are signed by people alleged to be suicides
or MIA's?  How coincidental.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:31 PST 1996
Article: 81479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? II
Date: 19 Nov 1996 23:39:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <56tgfg$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  In continuation to the previous article: not only were SS-men
  not punished for participating in mass murder, they were
  awarded medals for it!
  
  Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of 
  concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 
  November 1941
  [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
  Press, 1984, p. 99]
  -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
  The Commandant's office has submitted to date two lists recommending
  the conferment of the Kreigverdienstkreuz [war service cross]. In
  both of these appear SS personnel who participated in executions. We
  herewith request confirmation as to whether these names should be
>  listed once again in the roll currently under preparation. Further
>  requested is information as to whether in the recommendation lists
>  under "reasons and comments of immediate superior" there should be
>  specified "execution, i.e., special action" or whether a general,
>  routine reason should be given.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Now, my only questions are:

1.  What is the original source for this document?

2.  What "executions" had these men allegedly 
participated in?

Let's see if Mr. Keren answers these two questions.

Also, it is curious to note that executioners the world
over are paid for their services, as well as noting that
allied fliers were highly decorated for killing hundreds
of thousands of unarmed civilians with fire bombs.
Also, as another example, the murderer of Leon Trotsky
was later decorated with the highest decoration of the 
Soviet Union for planting an ice pick in Mr. Trotsky's
brain.
I fail to appreciated Keren's point, if there is one.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:32 PST 1996
Article: 81481 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wither the ten million?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:48:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <576a7h$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.175.100.19
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:


  

 1) If you will demand to see 6 million corpses as a proof
     that the Holocaust took place, you should also demand
     to see 10 million or so corpses as proof of Stalin's
     atrocities, and 100,000 corpses or so as proof that
     Dresden was bombed, etc.

This is no answer.  We are waiting for YOUR proof.  Your figures
are much greater and we also have the exact locations where
you claim these crimes occurred.
>  
>     This should be clear even to a senile drunkard such as
>     yourself, hopefully. You cannot apply a double standard.

Then why do YOU?
>  
>     It should also be clear to you that you will not be able
>     to find, perhaps, one single corpse for which it can be
>     proved that it is the corpse of someone killed in the
>     aerial attack on Dresden. If you know of such a corpse,
>     please tell us where it can be found.

Show us one mass grave.
>  
>     Even a senile drunkard like you should therefore understand
>     that your "argument" extends to "prove" that Dresden was
>     never bombed.
>  
>  2) Huge numbers of corpses and human remains were actually
>     found, in some of the camps (Belsen, Treblinka, Maidanek).

Yes, commesurate with the epidemics during which they died.

>  

>  
>  You're a stupid, senile Nazi drunkard, admirer of Nazis who
>  killed American POW's in cold blood.

Oh-since when are you so concerned about American POW's?
Thousands of Germans were killed in cold blood as well.  Why don't
you look up those 90,000 German soldiers taken prisoner at Stalingrad
and who never returned home.  I am sure their families would love to
see them again.
>  
>  
>

>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:33 PST 1996
Article: 81485 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:46:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <577gpj$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  
  # Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
  # whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
  # continuous insults.
  
  No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.
  
  First, I am not "whining and crying". I brought up Giwer's
  death threats against me, since he made them only
  because my opinion on a certain historical event is
  different from his.
  
  This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
>  "revisionists", claims to support freedom of speech...
>  
>  # You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
>  # ready to strike,
>  
>  You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
>  He, at least, had the excuse: "I was brought up in a
>  society which made me like this". You don't have such an
>  excuse.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
And what is your excuse, Danny?  Would that comment about
the SS refer to Heydrich as well?  Do you regard their upbringing
as a factor "in mitigation"?  And are you also implying that every 
person in the SS was ill-trained in some way?  What a facile 
interpretation which smacks of an inherent naivete!  As far as
your feud with Giwer goes, you have insulted him more than any other
person who disagrees with your ideas on alt revisionism.  He, also,
cannot be blamed if he reacts to your constant and unprovoked
ji0bes 0and insults with righteous anger and indignation.  And I see
that you are right back to callling me "Nazi-boy" again.....How to
win friends and influence people-NOT.  And for what reason?-
Simply because people disagree with you that 6 million Jews were
murdered during the 2nd WW.  Your bias is showing....it is always
showing....and you are no better than Mr. Giwer, whom you constantly
revile.  By the way, you also are a product of your society and upbringing,
which raised you on a pack of lies and faded old war legends.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:33 PST 1996
Article: 81493 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:48:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <577gtq$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>  wrote:
>  
>  > rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  > 
>  > # Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
>  > # whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
>  > # continuous insults.
>  > 
>  > No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.
>  > 
>  > First, I am not "whining and crying". I brought up Giwer's
>  > death threats against me, since he made them only
>  > because my opinion on a certain historical event is
>  > different from his.
>  > 
>  > This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
>  > "revisionists", claims to support freedom of speech...
>  > 
>  > # You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
>  > # ready to strike,
>  > 
>  > You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
>  > He, at least, had the excuse: "I was brought up in a
>  > society which made me like this". You don't have such an
>  > excuse.
>  
>  Perhaps Mr. Belling can plead that he is mentally incompetant? It's a
>  compelling argument in many respects....

That's "incompetent" Mark.  And if that is your excuse, I guess I can
resort to it as well.
>  
> 



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:34 PST 1996
Article: 81521 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!lantana.singnet.com.sg!violet.singnet.com.sg!newsvr.cyberway.com.sg!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Could this be true?
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:13:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <575mk3$3tn@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd40-223.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <32948a8b.6040706@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>  Carpenter) wrote:
>  
>  >  "Zionism was willing to sacrifice the whole of European Jewry
>  > for a Zionist State.  Everything was done to create a state of Israel
>  > and that was only possible through a world war.  Wall Street and
>  > Jewish large bankers aided the war effort on both sides. Zionists are
>  > also to  blame for provoking the growing hatred for Jews in 1988."
>  > 
>  >  (Joseph Burg, The Toronto Star,  March 31, 1988).
>  > 
>  
>  "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
>  financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
>  the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
>  the Jewish race throughout Europe."
>  
>       - Adolph Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag on January 30, 1939.
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Mr. Blackmore, you will soon be eating crow pie.
      -Mark van Alstine
(When asked for copies of the forensic tests allegedly conducted 
by or on behalf of Dr. Charles Larson)


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:35 PST 1996
Article: 81523 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Umfallen" and deliberate mistranslation
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:46:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <577kao$ln0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd19-050.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <32941262.254288222@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:
>  
>  [Nothing of importance]
>  
>  > At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
>  > charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
>  > "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
>  > trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
>  > 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 
>  
>  And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
>  The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
>  ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 
>  

>  
>>>>
Are you denying that Jackson said this?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:36 PST 1996
Article: 81524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:53:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <577kn3$ln0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  # Let's see 80,000 civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at
>  # Nagasaki,130,000 at Dresden-
>  
>  By your own standards, you have to show us the corpses
>  of the alleged 130,000 Dresden victims.
>  
>  Fair is fair. You ask for this type of evidence for Nazi
>  crimes. You should, then, present it for crimes you
>  accuse the Allies of.
>  
>  Can you show us the remains of these alleged 130,000
>  corpses?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
Sure.  When do we leave for Germany?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:36 PST 1996
Article: 81525 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:49:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <577kfi$ln0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32940568.28868760@news.txdirect.net>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd19-050.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
>  On 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >   hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
>  >  On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>   
>  >  Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
>  >  
>  >  Is that so?  Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
>  >>  positive about this.  I believe that he cannot do this.


>  
>  
>  
>  Harry W. Mazal OBE
>  
>  Nizkor (USA)  An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>  Over 1000 Megs of data: http://www.nizkor.org
>  Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>
Afraid your sources are wrong, old chap.  If memory serves correctly, it
was the French who first utilized poison gas.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:37 PST 1996
Article: 81543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:55:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 82
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
      mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
    In article <575nfc$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
    
   One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
    -Mark Van Alstine
    
    Well, I'm still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.
 
  Still can't find a public library, Mr. Belling? I'm not terribly
 suprised....
   
  "The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
   state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
   and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
   world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
  world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
   Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
  the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
   it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
   history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
  Taylor 

Then why doesn't he practice what he preaches?
 
  He did. And that's what evidently puts a twist in your knickers. He helped
  get your Nazi heroes to swing at the end of a rope. 
  
   For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
   Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
   
   http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

 Yes, please do visit.  All are welcome.  However, I prefer that my writings be
 accessed through Deja News.  They are not biased.
  
  No, DejaNews is certainly not biased. You come off as the same Nazi clown
  when your Nazi apologia and lies are read from DejaNews as when the are
  read from Nizkor. (Small wonder since the posts are the same....) 

No, Nizkor seems to do some highly selective editing.
  
 Actually, I believe you are quoting from the wrong Taylor....  
  
  Nope. 

Yup.  
  [Mr. Belling's Nazi jingoism snipped] 
>  
>  > ...As far as a public library, the one I have at home is absolutley perfect 
>  > for my needs.  
>  
>  You have a _public_ library at home? Amazing. 

Darn.  You outwitted me again!
>  
>  > Remember, I own approximately 40-65,000 books, which your buddies 
>  > exaggerated and distorted to 165,000, as is their usual way. 
>  
>  Given your sustained ignorance, Mr. Belling, they are apparantly _comic_ 
>  books! 
>  
>  All 45 of them. 

Chuckle chuckle
>  
>  
>  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

For those interested in Mark's insipid drivel, refer to his past and present
posts (Although I can't imagine why anyone would want to)
>  
>
PS
>>>>
I wasn't refering to Hitler.  I was referring to Taylor and the last lines 
of the paragraph.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:38 PST 1996
Article: 81566 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-ham1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!swidir.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies.... Re: Questions rblackmore@juno.com (jbelling@sprynet.net) refuses to answer...
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:42:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 150
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  In article <575oqq$68p@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  
  [snip]
  
 I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.
  
 Why should I, since you do it so well all by yourself?
  
  So your refusal to support your claim clearly demonstrates that you are a
  liar, and a shall have no qualms about openly declaring you as one. You,
  Joseph Bellinger, are a liar.

This from the Prince of Lies, Mr. Gandhi.
  
  Since you cannot, you need to retract this statement, or be branded,
  yet again, a liar.
  
  Branded a liar by a liar?

   Further, nothing you have ever said, with respect to the above two
  claims you made,
   has had a shred of truth.

This coming from a confirmed liar without conscience, such as yourself,
is hardly credible.
 
 Well, even that would be more truth than you have ever displayed here.
  
  So at least now you admit that you are a liar.
  
 Your continual refusal to support your statements,
 and your continual prevarication with respect to your claims merely 
 demonstrates that truth is not something you are interested in.
 
 You simply are not content with my answers.  You want to hear what you
 wish to hear.  I will not fulfill your fantasies for you, Mr. Gandhi.  If
  you want
 that lollipop, go back to your mother who spoiled you and ask her.  

  You have given no answers to be content with, except continual lies.

And if I told malicious untruths this would be acceptable to a person like
you as Gospel truth, because you feed off of lies.  Lies and distortions
are your harvest-a harvest of hate.
  
      By the way, your claim that you do not lie or distort is but another
  lie, 
      or have  you chosen to conveniently forget your little blunder about 
      the Auschwitz Museum ?
 
 There was no blunder.  They maintained a false figure of 4 million dead
 for decades, the majority being Jews.  Funny what you consider to be a 
 blunder, Mr. Gandhi.
  
  You did indeed lie about the Auschwitz Museum. You said 19 slabs existed
  which uunequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. This was
  wrong, and you werer told it was wrong. You said you had pictures. You were
  asked to produce the inscription. You still maintained that 19 slabs
  existed which unequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. You
  were corrected again. You finally confessed that you lied, although you
  attempted to weasel your way out of the lie.

Of course you are in a position to know aren't you.  Even if I did lie, which
I didn't, which is the greater lie-

a.  That the Auschwitz State Museum maintained a fake death figure for
5 decades of 4 million, whether Jew or non Jew?

b.  That I "lied" and stated that there were 19 slabs?  (In fact there are)

c.  That I referred to the 4 million as dead Jews. (In reality, the overwhelming 
majority of deaths were attributed to Jewish deaths simply by adding up the totals
given for non-Jewish deaths)

d.  Your lies-which heap lies upon lies and helps to support the tottering 
edifice of lies your holocaust story is based upon?

Tell me.  Which of the above lies do you consider to be the greater, O Prince
of Lies?
  
  Of course, Mr. Bellinger, having once again refused to answer the
  questions,
  choses to ask a few of his own, although they HAVE been asked in the past,
  and they HAVE indeed been answered:

Will you decide on a name for me already?  Will it be Belling, Blackmore, or Bellinger?
Or shall we add another?  Shall I be a male, a female, a boy, a girl?  Which shall
you choose this week?

  snip

rblackmore:
  
 Well, so be it.  I will consider that admission to be the end of this
  argument.

Gandhi:
  
  It isn't then end of the argument, since you have yet to answer the
  question of why you made such a ludicrous and unjustified claim -
  especially admidst your constant (and erroneous) whining with respect to
   incontrovertible.) I won't stop asking, so you might as well just answer
  the question. 

Well, I won't stop asking for proof of the Holocaust either.  So it looks as
if we have reached an impasse.
>  
>  
>  > >     With respect to the publisher's of the magazine of which you speak,
>  I  had sent
>  > >     them e-mail (twice) regarding the claims that you made, and have,
>  thus far,
>  > >     received no response.
>  > 
>  > Gee, I wonder why?  Could it be EMBARASSMENT?  Now you see where all
>  > your lies and distortions lead to......
>  
>  It may well be embarassment - If I was the publisher of a magazine about
>  history, and I made a blunder which, with proper research should never have
>  been made, I might well be embarassed. However, this doesn't in ANY way
>  establish your original inference - that the public is knowingly being
>  mislead.

Of course it is knowingly being mislead.  Where are they getting the false
figures from?  Surely not out of thin air?

 Nor does it negate the statement of myself, and others, that
>  serious Holocaust historians have never given credence to the figure of 4
>  million. It further doesn't support the revisionist belief that the
>  Holocaust is a hoax.

Who is a "serious" historian?  A historian who supports your view of the Holocaust
of course.  Much as serious scientists once supported the idea that the earth was
flat and that witches kissed the ass of the devil.  Your "serious" historians, such
as Reitlinger, Pressac, Hilberg, etc; ie, those who "believe in the gassing myth",
also have disagreements of opinion.  Choose whose opinion is correct, a, b, or c.
Invariably it will be the "historian" with the highest mortality rate.  Thats the order
of things in the distorted world of the Holocaust.  

>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will not come until you admit the falsity of your claims about the
Holocaust.-rb
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:38 PST 1996
Article: 81631 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-ham1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!swidir.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in1.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore embraces his lies.... Re: Questions rblackmore@juno.com (jbelling@sprynet.net) refuses to answer...
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:41:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 150
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  In article <575oqq$68p@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  
  [snip]
  
 I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.
  
 Why should I, since you do it so well all by yourself?
  
  So your refusal to support your claim clearly demonstrates that you are a
  liar, and a shall have no qualms about openly declaring you as one. You,
  Joseph Bellinger, are a liar.

This from the Prince of Lies, Mr. Gandhi.
  
  Since you cannot, you need to retract this statement, or be branded,
  yet again, a liar.
  
  Branded a liar by a liar?

   Further, nothing you have ever said, with respect to the above two
  claims you made,
   has had a shred of truth.

This coming from a confirmed liar without conscience, such as yourself,
is hardly credible.
 
 Well, even that would be more truth than you have ever displayed here.
  
  So at least now you admit that you are a liar.
  
 Your continual refusal to support your statements,
 and your continual prevarication with respect to your claims merely 
 demonstrates that truth is not something you are interested in.
 
 You simply are not content with my answers.  You want to hear what you
 wish to hear.  I will not fulfill your fantasies for you, Mr. Gandhi.  If
  you want
 that lollipop, go back to your mother who spoiled you and ask her.  

  You have given no answers to be content with, except continual lies.

And if I told malicious untruths this would be acceptable to a person like
you as Gospel truth, because you feed off of lies.  Lies and distortions
are your harvest-a harvest of hate.
  
      By the way, your claim that you do not lie or distort is but another
  lie, 
      or have  you chosen to conveniently forget your little blunder about 
      the Auschwitz Museum ?
 
 There was no blunder.  They maintained a false figure of 4 million dead
 for decades, the majority being Jews.  Funny what you consider to be a 
 blunder, Mr. Gandhi.
  
  You did indeed lie about the Auschwitz Museum. You said 19 slabs existed
  which uunequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. This was
  wrong, and you werer told it was wrong. You said you had pictures. You were
  asked to produce the inscription. You still maintained that 19 slabs
  existed which unequivocally stated that 4 million jews had been gassed. You
  were corrected again. You finally confessed that you lied, although you
  attempted to weasel your way out of the lie.

Of course you are in a position to know aren't you.  Even if I did lie, which
I didn't, which is the greater lie-

a.  That the Auschwitz State Museum maintained a fake death figure for
5 decades of 4 million, whether Jew or non Jew?

b.  That I "lied" and stated that there were 19 slabs?  (In fact there are)

c.  That I referred to the 4 million as dead Jews. (In reality, the overwhelming 
majority of deaths were attributed to Jewish deaths simply by adding up the totals
given for non-Jewish deaths)

d.  Your lies-which heap lies upon lies and helps to support the tottering 
edifice of lies your holocaust story is based upon?

Tell me.  Which of the above lies do you consider to be the greater, O Prince
of Lies?
  
  Of course, Mr. Bellinger, having once again refused to answer the
  questions,
  choses to ask a few of his own, although they HAVE been asked in the past,
  and they HAVE indeed been answered:

Will you decide on a name for me already?  Will it be Belling, Blackmore, or Bellinger?
Or shall we add another?  Shall I be a male, a female, a boy, a girl?  Which shall
you choose this week?

  snip

rblackmore:
  
 Well, so be it.  I will consider that admission to be the end of this
  argument.

Gandhi:
  
  It isn't then end of the argument, since you have yet to answer the
  question of why you made such a ludicrous and unjustified claim -
  especially admidst your constant (and erroneous) whining with respect to
   incontrovertible.) I won't stop asking, so you might as well just answer
  the question. 

Well, I won't stop asking for proof of the Holocaust either.  So it looks as
if we have reached an impasse.
>  
>  
>  > >     With respect to the publisher's of the magazine of which you speak,
>  I  had sent
>  > >     them e-mail (twice) regarding the claims that you made, and have,
>  thus far,
>  > >     received no response.
>  > 
>  > Gee, I wonder why?  Could it be EMBARASSMENT?  Now you see where all
>  > your lies and distortions lead to......
>  
>  It may well be embarassment - If I was the publisher of a magazine about
>  history, and I made a blunder which, with proper research should never have
>  been made, I might well be embarassed. However, this doesn't in ANY way
>  establish your original inference - that the public is knowingly being
>  mislead.

Of course it is knowingly being mislead.  Where are they getting the false
figures from?  Surely not out of thin air?

 Nor does it negate the statement of myself, and others, that
>  serious Holocaust historians have never given credence to the figure of 4
>  million. It further doesn't support the revisionist belief that the
>  Holocaust is a hoax.

Who is a "serious" historian?  A historian who supports your view of the Holocaust
of course.  Much as serious scientists once supported the idea that the earth was
flat and that witches kissed the ass of the devil.  Your "serious" historians, such
as Reitlinger, Pressac, Hilberg, etc; ie, those who "believe in the gassing myth",
also have disagreements of opinion.  Choose whose opinion is correct, a, b, or c.
Invariably it will be the "historian" with the highest mortality rate.  Thats the order
of things in the distorted world of the Holocaust.  

>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will not come until you admit the falsity of your claims about the
Holocaust.-rb
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:39 PST 1996
Article: 81691 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!iag.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!news.he.net!calweb!jolt.pagesat.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.spuynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .
Date: 23 Nov 1996 07:40:23 GMT
Organization: Spuynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <5769p7$kof@juliana.spuynet.com>
References: 
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NNTP-Posteng-Host: 206.175.100.19
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstene) writes:
>  In article <32947206.6900502@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>  Carpenter) wrote:
>  
>  >  "We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look
>  > forward, not to its  ultimate union with other races, but to its
>  > tueumph over them."
>  > 
>  >  (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford
>  > University, October, 1981)
>  
>   "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
>  financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
>  the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
>  the Jewish race throughout Europe."
>  
>       - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
>  
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Well, that was a non sequitor if I ever saw one.-Groucho Marx


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:40 PST 1996
Article: 81785 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.nacamar.de!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:19:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <577io2$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd58-207.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  
>  [Quote from a report written by a Nazi official about
>  mass murder of Jews in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine]
>  
>  # And where may we find the alleged author of this
>  # report today?
>  
>  I don't know. He's either dead, or very old. Heck, now
>  you can claim he never existed. Go ahead.
>  
>  Has it ever occurred to you to check with the appropriate
>  German authorities where these people are?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Has it ever occurred to you, since you try to use them as witnesses?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:40 PST 1996
Article: 81787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.nacamar.de!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:17:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <577ik8$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
  
 Did anyone ask Mr. Harold Le Druillence to take them
 to the scenes of the crimes? Did anyone care to dig up
 these mass graves?

        Evidently not.
  
  The following photos are in
  
  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/bergen-belsen/images
  
  They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
  William Hodge and Company, 1949.  
>  
>  belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>  belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
>  belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
>           
>  The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
>  that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>         
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>  
>  Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
>               and Belsen). 
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/
>  
>  Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
>                corpses in Belsen.
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
>  
>  Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
>                II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.                       
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
The usual distorted drivel from Danny.  These photos at Belsen,
are supposed to prove that six million Jews were systematically 
murdered by the nazis.  They don't.  Note:

1.  The SS women appear healthy because they were.  They
were principally employed as administrative staff and had little
or nothing to do with the inmates.  That they aren't emaciated is
due to the fact that they were fortunate not to have contracted
any of the life threatening illnesses brought into the camp by
the inmates during the final weeks of the war.
It should be noted that in camp 2, where the original inmates in the
camp were housed, the people were in relatively good health, which can be
seen and verified by viewing films from the period.  This proves that the illness
were carried into the camp by the tens of thousands who were transferred there
in the course of the last three months of the war.
  Mr. Keren would love to
have photos of these same SS women in an emaciated condition adorning
his massive photo collection, pasted on his wall next to his playboy
photos.

2.  Kramer was commander of the camp for only 3 MONTHS.  His superior
misrepresented the camp to him before Kramer accepted the assignment.
His superior referred to the camp as a rest and rehabilitation camp.  What
happened in reality is that seriously ill, dying, and highly contagious inmates
with life threatening diseases were shipped to the camp during the final
weeks of the war, which dramatically increased the death rate, and spread the 
epidemics further.  Many of the inmates also contributed to the filthy conditions
prevalent throughout the camp.  They defecated and urinated wherever it
pleased them, and used the camp grounds as their own personal refuse dump.
Kramer is on record as having appealed for help from his superiors on many
occasions.  His pleas were ignored.  He was a victim of circumstances.  Note
that it was Kramer who arranged for the surrender of the camp to the
British as he realized he was wholly incapable with dealing with the mess
his superiors had created.  Thousands continued to die even after the
British assumed control over the camp and were given the best possible medical
treatment.  Note also that the children in the camp had been isolated on orders
>from  Kramer, thus they were found to be in good health by the British.  There is
no telling how the child in the photo happened to die.  Perhaps it was ill with
typhus when it arrived, and if placed with the healthy children, would have 
spread the illness to them.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:06 PST 1996
Article: 81839 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Burg on World War II
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:01:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <577hmu$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32976bf6.42723625@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
  In <3295c821.3792900@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
  Carpenter) wrote:
  
 On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:02:34 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
Morris) wrote:
  
In <3293cb59.510857@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:
  
 "World War II was a Zionist plot to make way for the foundation of
the Jewish State  in Palestine."
  
 (Joseph Burg, an antiZionist Jew).
  
Joseph Burg is also frequently trotted out by deniers as a witness who
claimed there were no mass murders in Nazi camps. The fact that he was
never actually in a Nazi camp until after the war is conveniently
overlooked.
  
  Is that what is called a self-hating Jew?
  
  Don't know. It's not a category I understand or employ.
  
More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/
  
>  >>A Christian Identity hate site. What a surprise!
>  
>  >No more hateful than the JDL hate site
>  
>  Your all too obvious resort to the _ad hominem tu quoque_ fallacy is
>  noted.
>  
>  I just took a quick peek at the JDL website, not enough to form a
>  general opinion, but, given that Meir Kahane's name figures
>  prominently on the home page, it seems likely that the JDL web site
>  qualifies as a hate site. I am not interested in whether your
>  Christian Identity site is more, or less, hateful.
>  
>  Let me ask you this though: why are you posting material without
>  comment from a site which you admit is a hate site?
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Let me ask you this-you admit that what Burg said is accurate?
But he's only speaking for hhimself, right?


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:07 PST 1996
Article: 81840 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore babbles... was Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:26:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <575nd1$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <5751cj$d21@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > I am a revisionist and I will say only this:  until we are provided with
>  > conclusive forensic evidence that masses of human beings were
>  > murdered at Treblinka, which has not been provided to date, anything
>  > Mr. Suchomel had to say on the subject is irrelevant. 
>  
>  At least now you finally admit that you are a revisionist. Perhaps you
>  could also deign to finally answer questions surrounding your utterly
>  baseless accusations about the Simon Wisenthal Center and The Discovery
>  Channel. (By the way, the events of Treblinka have been established as
>  fact. Your refusal to accept the truth is your own flaw, but then, since
>  you disregard valid sources of information and instead choose to rely on
>  crap (for instance, Butler's 'book', in your steadfast and groundless
>  assertion that Hoess was tortured into making his admissions) it isn't
>  suprising.
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Butler is a confirmed exterminationist, which should have you
beaming with ectasy.  Simply because he is honest, it seems to run
against your grain.  No problem for me.  Your hypocrisy was unveiled
a long time ago.  BTW, perhaps you might care to enlighten us all
and tell us all the "incontrovertible facts" about Treblinka.  You will
present us with all the forensic tests and the mass graves and all,
won't you?  Or will you resort to fairy tales, as is your usual wont, by
telling us that the Nazis destroyed every vestige of their "crime".
Think before you answer for a change because we now have access to
photos which show no unusual activity at the Treblinka site at the time
the nazis were supposed to be destroying the evidence.  Your beliefs rest
on fantasy, hollywood style.......nothing more, nothing less.


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:07 PST 1996
Article: 81841 of alt.revisionism
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Henry Ford on Jews
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:17:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: 
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <32948a6b.6008520@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
  Carpenter) wrote:
>  
 "The chief difficulty in writing about the Jewish Question is
 the supersensitiveness of  Jews and nonJews concerning the whole
 matter. There is a vague feeling that even to openly  use the word
 'Jew,' or expose it nakedly to print is somehow improper. Polite
 evasions like 'Hebrew' and 'Semite,' both of which are subject to the
 criticism of inaccuracy, are timidly  essayed, and people pick their
 way gingerly as if the whole subject were forbidden, until some
 courageous Jewish thinker comes straight out with the old old word
 'Jew,' and then the constraint is relieved and the air cleared...A Jew
 is a Jew and as long as he remains within his  perfectly unassailable
 traditions, he will remain a Jew. And he will always have the right to
 feel  that to be a Jew, is to belong to a superior race. No one knows
 better than the Jew how  widespread the notion that Jewish methods of
 business are all unscrupulous. No existing Gentile  system of
 government is ever anything but distasteful to him. The Jew is against
 the Gentile  scheme of things.     He is, when he gives his tendencies
 full sway, a Republican as against the monarchy, a  Socialist as
 against the republic, and a Bolshevik as against Socialism. Democracy
 is all right for  the rest of the world, but the Jew wherever he is
 found forms an aristocracy of one sort or  another."
 
>  >  (Henry Ford, Dearborn Independent)
>  
>   "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
>  financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
>  the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
>  the Jewish race throughout Europe."
>  
>       - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
One day soon (rblackmore) will be eating crow pie.
          -Mark Van Alstine
(When asked to produce the alleged autopsy reports
and chemical tests connducted by Charles Larson)


From rblackmore@juno.com Mon Nov 25 07:35:08 PST 1996
Article: 81843 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:18:24 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <577im0$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3298cfa5.9501470@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <32946dcf.637569@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
>  wrote:
>  
>  >>Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former
>  >>prisoner in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier
>  >>there ("The Belsen Trial", p. 60-62):
>  >
>  >	Did anyone ask Mr. Harold Le Druillence to take them to the
>  >scenes of the crimes? Did anyone care to dig up these mass graves?
>  >	Evidently not.
>  
>  The Belsen photos are probably the most famous World War II atrocity
>  photos.
>  
>  Do you always shoot foot, ask questions later?
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Do you always open mouth, stick foot?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:42 PST 1996
Article: 81861 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 06:58:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <575nfc$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
   -Mark Van Alstine
   
   Well, I'm still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.

  Still can't find a public library, Mr. Belling? I'm not terribly suprised....
  
  "The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
  state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
  and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
  world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
  world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
  Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
  the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
  it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
  history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
  Taylor 

Then why doesn't he practice what he preaches?
  
  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
  
  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Yes, please do visit.  All are welcome.  However, I prefer that my writings be
accessed through Deja News.  They are not biased.
Actually, I believe you are quoting from the wrong Taylor.  I
would think A J P Taylor would be a little less biased than old Telford,
but he suits your purposes just fine I think.  Fact is, old Telford sounds
just like the jingoists of old, parroting the same old lines of stale 
propaganda and so forth.  Your quote is reminiscent of Stalin's old
clique as well.  However, these are the sources you must rely upon
to bolster your sagging legends.  You are stuck with them and actually
seem content with the propaganda you regurgitate as frequently as most
people change their socks.

 The
problem is the new generation is not as naive as those past, and political
and historical awareness is now more the rule than the exception, along with
a deep distrust of the "establishment" which has proven its hypocrisy to 
the young generation over and over again.  Those old cliches about Germany 
and the military planning and starting a new war is the most obscene drivel
I have read in a long while.  If you want to start examining wars in this century and
their causes I would be most happy to do so.  As far as a public library, the one
I have at home is absolutley perfect for my needs.  Remember, I own approximately
40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
as is their usual way.  


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:43 PST 1996
Article: 81870 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Birth of an Urban Legend (was Re: Suchomel and Shoah)
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:10:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <575mds$3tn@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32962555.16387533@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <56ttr0$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >So!  Suchomel was portrayed by an actor?
>  
>  Prediction: it will become part of denier cant that Suchomel was
>  portrayed by an actor in Claude Lanzmann's "Shoah". Give it time to go
>  around a couple of times, and Suchomel will turn out to have been
>  portrayed by an actor at the Treblinka trial, too. Wait a while
>  longer, and it will become the new denier thesis for the Nuremberg
>  trials.
>  
>  Savor the moment: it is not often that one is present at the birth of
>  a new urban legend.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Such as the legend of the Holocaust?  You have had the
benefit of much more experience at this sort of thing than 
we have.  We have a ways to go before our so-called legends
become non-secular.  When is the projected date for the next
addition to the Old Testament, namely, the Book of Shoah?


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:44 PST 1996
Article: 81900 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:27:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <329457ab.153844@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>  Carpenter) wrote:
>  
>  >  "Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what
>  > is possible. Israel has  been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend
>  > Israel!  Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And
>  > the world will defend us."
>  > 
>  >  (Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book  Epitres aux Juifs, 1938)
>  > 
>  
>   "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
>  financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
>  the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
>  the Jewish race throughout Europe."
>  
>       - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
>  
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
-Mark Van Alstine

Well, I'm still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.


From rblackmore@juno.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:45 PST 1996
Article: 81914 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 23 Nov 1996 06:38:02 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <57664a$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329ef1e9.17799270@news.sprynet.com>
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   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  
  Letter from SS-doctor August Hirt to the "Ahnenerbe" Institute, 
 July 14 1943
  [Presacc, J.C, The Struthof Album, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, 1985,
  Page 11]
  --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I'm aware of the SD letter, but I must share that, according to a 
  memo from the Camp commandant, because of a difficulty, the material 
  for gassing is not present.  I ask you that the appropriate material 
  be made available, else the matter can not be carried out.
  
  Furthermore, I ask for a supply slip for 150 pcs of x-ray film, 
  format 24x30.  I can probably get the film from the hospital 
 administration here.
 
  
  

Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above, I will only
direct the reader to note that Hirt is another one of those mysterious
"suicides" or "presumed missing".  Probably ushered out of Europe
by the "Vatican Connection" no doubt!  Isn't it curious how all the 
most damaging documents are signed by people alleged to be suicides
or MIA's?  How coincidental.
  
  Missing like Bormann. You should bother to respond.

Good.  Let's dig into this subject a bit deeper, shall we?
  
  1/ Kramer said that he got from Hirt cyanide salts to gas about one
  hundred of earmarked Jews, that he did it and delivered the corpses to
>  the mortuary of Hirt.

So Kramer said he received cyanide salts from Hirt?  And where did Hirt
receive them from?  Do you happen to have a document which shows
Hirt ordering cyanide salts?  Now, would these be the one and the same
Zyklon B we have all heard so much about?  If Kramer was in charge of
the executions, why did he not apply for the salts himself?  
>  
>  2/ A lot of letters of Hirt to Kramer, another SS of the Ahnenerbe and
>  vice versa still exist, as the one above, planning the gassing.

All of this planning for this one little gassing??  All these documents?
Then I ask where all the documents are relating to the mass gassing 
of Jews at Auschwitz......Another question, how many other people were
gassed at Struthof besides this "experimental group"?  Or did the authorities
decide to build a structure specially to gas this small group of people when they
could have been gassed at Dachau, seeing that a chamber already existed there at and
Neuengamme, according to many posters on alt revisionism.  If the corpses were not to be
damaged, why were they gassed instead of being given phenol injections,
which would have accomplished the job just as quickly and efficiently.


>  
>  3/ Testimonies from Natzweiler exist about the gassings, as documents
>  about the gas chamber. The gas chamber remained.

Yet this gas chamer has never been thoroughly examined, to the best
of my knowledge.  No, I take that back.  It was examined by none other
than Robert Faurisson and proclaimed a fraud.
>  
>  5/ Hirt left quickly because of the unexpected breakthrough of the 2th
>  DB, and it was found one week later 86 corpses without heads in
>  special tanks in the basement of the mortuary.

86 corpses found in a special tank in a morgue in an institute for
the study of anatomy?  Hardly out of the ordinary.
>  
>  6/ Testimonies from the mortuary exist about the delivery of these
>  corpses with the same dates than Natzweiler (they were informed about
>  the day and hour of each delivery and all the corpses were still
>  warm), what Hirt said about these, and his final order to cut and
>  incinerate the heads before he left.

Well, if all this is true, what can you tell us about the victims?  And in
what year were these Ichabod Crane corpses found?
>  
>  7/ The selection of the earmarked Jews in Auschwitz is mentioned in
>  the chronicle.

Are you then saying that all of the victims were Jews?
>  
>  8/ One French witness noticed something that he couldn't make up when
>  he testified (in Dec 44), proving that the victims came from Auschwitz
>  (what he didn't know).

Well, will you share this with us?  Who was this mystery witness and what was
said?
>  
>  Now, I'm curious to see how you will manage to uphold that no gassing
>  occurred in Natzweiler ?


Apparently there was a so-called Natzweiler trial where this incident
was discussed and I have seen the publication, but I was very disappointed
with the limited space this subject was allowed.
Now, I am curious as to how you will answer my questions.
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:32 PST 1996
Article: 82105 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 22 Nov 1996 21:54:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <5757e6$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd19-069.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:


>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
And where may we find the alleged author of this report today?


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:25 PST 1996
Article: 82422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.iconn.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 23 Nov 1996 18:57:21 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <577heh$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3297c440.65329052@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > Remember, I own approximately
>  >40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
>  >as is their usual way.  
>  
>  Uh huh. Sure you do. And you're really a thirteen year old girl, too.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
By the way, if you'll believe the Holocaust, you'll believe anything.


From rblackmore@juno.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:26 PST 1996
Article: 82424 of alt.revisionism
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I have to agree with Goldhagen
Date: 23 Nov 1996 02:18:38 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <575mtu$3tn@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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You would.  What is so surprising about that?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:24 PST 1996
Article: 82585 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:10:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <57m9as$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329b7a86.3599214@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <577im0$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >Do you always open mouth, stick foot?
>  
>  Not always. Sometimes you won't open your mouth wide enough; sometimes
>  your clown shoes won't fit.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Perhaps not, but they'll fit in your mouth, where they belong.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:25 PST 1996
Article: 82586 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Morgenthau says waste Germany
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:12:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57m9em$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57dtbh$tju$11@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <57cr8k$a9l@access5.digex.net> - mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael
>  P. Stein) writes:
>  :>
>  :>In article <329471fb.6889517@news.zippo.com>,
>  :>Chris Carpenter  wrote:
>  :>> "Germany must be turned into a waste land, as happened there
>  :>>during the 30 year War." 
>  :>>
>  :>> (Das Morgenthau Tagebuch, The Morgenthau Diary, p. 11).
>  :>
>  :>    And the fact that Germany is now the agricultural third-world nation
>  :>that Morgenthau wanted proves once again how tightly Da Joos control
>  :>everything. 
>  
>  ROTFL.
>  
>  This is priceless!  Stein 10, Chris zilch.
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
The repressive German Government of today, which stifles
free speech and inquiry, is the legacy of the Morgenthau
Plan.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:26 PST 1996
Article: 82600 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:42:52 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57m7mc$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a2c86e.3040378@news.spry.com>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  Testimony of Richard Glazer
>  
>  We were taken to a barracks. The whole place stank. Piled about
>  five feet high in a jumbled mass, were all the things people
>  could conceivably brought. Clothes, suitcases, everything stacked
>  in a solid mass. On top of it, jumping around like demons, people
>  were making bundles and carrying them outside. It was turned over
>  to one of these men. His armband said "Squad Leader." He shouted,
>  and I understood that I was also to pick up clothing, bundle it,
>  and take it somewhere. As I worked, I asked him: "What's going
>  on? Where are the ones who stripped?" And he replied: "Dead! All
>  dead!"
>  
>  But it still hadn't sunk in, I didn't believe it. He's used the
>  Yiddish word. It was the first time I'd heard Yiddish spoken. He
>  didn't say it very loud, and I saw he had tears in his eyes.
>  Suddenly, he started shouting, and raised his whip. Out of the
>  corner of my eye I saw an SS man coming. And I understood that I
>  was to ask no more questions, but just to rush outside with the
>  package.
>  
>  		Work Cited:
>  
>  Lanzmann, Claude. Shoah: The Complete Text of the Acclaimed
>  Holocaust Film. New York: De Capo Press. 1995 p. 38
>  
>>>>
More lies from the same people who brought you black SS uniforms
years after they were discontinued.....If you can't believe the messengers,
how can you believe the message?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:26 PST 1996
Article: 82630 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBlackmore babbles... was Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:48:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <57m805$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
  In article <575nd1$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  [snip]
  
   Butler is a confirmed exterminationist, which should have you
   beaming with ectasy.  Simply because he is honest, it seems to run
   against your grain.  
  
  Whether or not Butler acknowledges the Holocaust is irrelevant. You're
  relying on a third party recitation of something Clark allegedly said.

No.  I am relying on what Clark said in a taped interview.

  Worse, you claim it as absolute proof that Hoess was tortured, and that
  said torture was the ultimate source of Hoess statements. Such stunted
  logic on your part demonstrates a lack of forethought in your arguments.
  
   No problem for me.  Your hypocrisy was unveiled a long time ago.  
  
  Of course, being the bastion of truth that you are (not), you can
  substantiate your stupidity.

I can substantiate yours much better.
  
   BTW, perhaps you might care to enlighten us all
>  > and tell us all the "incontrovertible facts" about Treblinka.  You will
>  > present us with all the forensic tests and the mass graves and all,
>  > won't you?  Or will you resort to fairy tales, as is your usual wont, by
>  > telling us that the Nazis destroyed every vestige of their "crime".
>  
>  The uncontrovertible fact is that at Terblinka, somewhere around three
>  quarters of a million people, many Jews, many Gypsies, but others as well,
>  were murdered. They were herded into gass chambers. They were shot. For you
>  to call the extermination of so many people a fairy tale is, yet again,
>  demonstrative of your inability to estrange yourself from your fetid nazi
>  apologia.

We are still waiting for the proof.  Where is it?
>  
>  > Think before you answer for a change because we now have access to
>  > photos which show no unusual activity at the Treblinka site at the time
>  > the nazis were supposed to be destroying the evidence.  Your beliefs rest
>  > on fantasy, hollywood style.......nothing more, nothing less.
>  
>  You of course can provide a source for these photographs as well as
>  documented confirmation that they are authentic ? Or will you claim that
>  you have them in 'storage' as is your normal method when asked for
>  documentation ?

Research it.  The photos are available.
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)

Truth will never come out of Raj Gandhi.  (rblackmore)
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:27 PST 1996
Article: 82632 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:26:37 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <57ma8d$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57dc5p$lun@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad07-008.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : Has it ever occurred to you, since you try to use them as witnesses?
>  
>  Mr. Belling, is it your sincere claim that documents authored by 
>  dead people cannot be used as historical evidence?
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
No, only documents forged or offered by liars.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:28 PST 1996
Article: 82638 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder of Insane and Mentally Retarded Russians
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:41:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <57mb3r$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57ad3l$sn9@access1.digex.net>
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   mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:


  
  [quote snipped for space]
  
  
      Since Mr. Blackmore has such difficulty figuring out what is shown
 by these documents, I suppose I had better lend a hand.       Revisionists such as Greg Raven have 
asserted that the mass murder o Jews during the invasion of Russia was due to security concerns, tha the 
Jews were identified as a partisan threat.       I am not aware that Mr. Raven has ever offered any 
explanation of how
  old women and little children were regarded as a partisan threat, that
  they too should have been killed.  And in other documents posted here, it
  is seen that in the execution reports that Jews are listed as a separate
>  >>  category on a report where guerillas and suspected guerillas have their
>  >>  own listing.

This seems to have been the case.  If they were saboteurs or partisans or
criminals and also Jews, this fact was mentioned.  It is also a fact that children
roaming with partisan bands were also shot with the rest.  Hundreds of thousands
of Jews fought with the partisans, and often used children to attack and murder
German subjects.  Over 1.5 million Jews fought with the various allied forces 
during the war.  Thus, Jews were regarded as "the enemy".  Note that the allies
did not stop to ask how many German children were in Dresden when they fire-
bombed it.  War is war, whether you are Jewish or German or any other nationality.
And what was good for the goose is also good for the gander.  I don't like it, but
that's the way it is-or was.  The allies thought of the Germans in the same way 
Nazis thought of the Jews:  the common enemies of all mankind.

>  >>  
>  >>      The above document is further evidence that contrary to revisionist
>  >>  claims, Nazi killing operations in occupied Russia had motivations other
>  >>  than security concerns.  It is difficult to see how the feebleminded could
>  >>  be considered a partisan threat.  Furthermore, it shows that the occupiers
>  >>  felt secure enough that they could divert resources to such a nonessential
>  >>  task.
>  >>  
>  
>  >Would it be asking too much to post the entire extract
>  >from Halder's diary?
>  
>      At this point, I think that if you wish to allege that someone is
>  being intellectually dishonest by cutting out exculpatory material, it is
>  your job to show that such material exists.
>  
>      You suggested that it is Charles Power who ought to do the work of
>  finding out Lanzmann's net worth to provide the evidence about Mr. 
>  Beaulieu's unsupported assertion that he is a millionaire.  You suggested
>  that it is Danny Keren who is responsible for disproving Chris Carpenter's
>  improperly sourced quote.  If I fabricate a quote from you saying you were
>  a child molester, how would you go about proving you never said that?

It would be up to you to prove that I was.
>  
>      Dr. Keren gave the full, checkable source.  Yet you demand he cater to
>  your whims to show you more to prove he _didn't_ give you something out of
>  context.  Sorry, some hypocrisy is rather apparent here.

Mine, or Keren's-who makes all kinds of demands on me as well.
>  
>  

>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:28 PST 1996
Article: 82657 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He started shouting, and raised his whip
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:34:54 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <57nace$3ed@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  ## klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  ## Testimony of Richard Glazer
>  
>  # More lies from the same people who brought you black
>  # SS uniforms years after they were discontinued
>  
>  See previous post. The Ukrainian guards wore black uniform
>  and were called "the blacks".
>  
>  # If you can't believe the messengers, how can you believe
>  # the message?
>  
>  Very good. This is exactly why we should not believe anything
>  posted by the lying Nazi apologist, "rblackmore", after he
>  brazenly lied about Amon Goeth, claiming he was "executed by
>  the SS for mistreating Jews", while in reality he was tried
>  and executed by the Poles after the war.
>  
>  It is incredible to see to what lengths this lying Nazi 
>  apologist will go, in order to whitewash the crimes of his
>  Nazi heroes - he does not even hesitate to invent such
>  incredible lies, which are, after all, easy to refute.

How would you know, since you have never refuted anything 
I ever posted?  By the way, I already dealt with the Goeth business
in another post.  I received the info from a Jewish researcher.  Apparently
another liar like you.  And your hero Glazer never mentions Ukrainian SS
guards.  Only SS in Green and Black uniforms.  Another liar, like you.
>  
>  But then, Nazi apologists are usually rather stupid.
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:29 PST 1996
Article: 82658 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgery (Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:28:00 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: 
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Why don't you simply PROVE that this
>  >quote is a forgery and put an end to this
>  >guy's insolence once and for all?  We are
>  >waiting.....
>  
>  As I pointed out (or tried, without much success) to Chris Carpenter a
>  while back, there is no way to prove positively that someone *didn't* say
>  or write something. That is why it is up to the person attributing the
>  words to demonstrate that there is grounds for the attribution. However, 
>  when asked for a source, the best this moron can do is refer back to the
>  web page from which he gleaned the quote (for all I know, having made it
>  up and placed it there himself). This is Matt Giwer scholarship. I could
>  put together a web page myself featuring Adolf Hitler's long-awaited
>  specific order to set up the gas chambers of Oswiecim, and you'd have no
>  way to *disprove* that it was authentic.
>  
>  An intelligent little girl should have been able to figure these things
>  out for herself, Jane. (BTW, did your post in that other conference
>  garner any responses from cute teenage boys?)
>  
>>>>
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?  Of course not.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:30 PST 1996
Article: 82659 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get undressed. You're to be disinfected!
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:31:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  # klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  
>  ## Testimony of Richard Glazer
>  ##  
>  ## And suddenly it started: the yelling and screaming. "All out,
>  ## everybody out!" All those shouts, the uproar, the tumult! "Out!
>  ## Get out! Leave the baggage!" We got out stepping on each other.
>  ## We saw men waering blue armbands. Some carried whips. We saw 
>  ## some SS men, Green uniforms, black uniforms...
>  
>  # I have news for you.  The black SS uniform was completely
>  # discontinued at the beginning of the war.  
>  
>  He's possibly referring to the uniform of the Ukrainian guards,
>  which were black (which is why these guards were called "the
>  blacks").
>  
>  # Lanzmann has obviously seen too many Hollywood movies.
>  
>  You're obviously an arrogant, lying, and stupid Nazi apologist.
>  
>  Maybe you want to tell us why you claimed that Amon Goeth was
>  "executed by the SS" for mistreating Jews, while in reality
>  he was tried and executed for his crimes by the Poles, after
>  the war?
>  
>  What a stupid, lying Nazi-apologist you are...
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Look who's calling someone stupid-Danny and his porno collection.
Now, as to your comment-read again-"We saw some SS men, Green
uniforms, black uniforms,"
Another liar, just like you.  A liar who quotes liars.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:31 PST 1996
Article: 82660 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgery (Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:29:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  [Alleged "quote" from "French Rabbi"]
>  
>  # Why don't you simply PROVE that this quote
>  # is a forgery
>  
>  Sigh. Suppose someone claims that you said that you
>  like to sexually molest children. You may well take
>  him to court, and the court will, obviously, ask him
>  to prove that you said it. If he responds by claiming
>  that you have to prove you didn't say it, the court
>  will, obviously, reject this line of defense.
>  
>  So stop being such a damned idiot, will you?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Sigh.  Prove to us that Himmler said what you claim he said at Posen.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:31 PST 1996
Article: 82664 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Medical 'Experiments' in NATZWEILER (Strasbourg)
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:11:19 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <57ncgn$3ed@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/natzweiler/images
>  
>  MedExp03.jpg:
>  
>  The horror in Natzweiler (Strasbourg): the dissected 
>  corpses of victims used for Dr. Hirt's "anthropological 
>  research".
>  
>  
>  See photographs of relevant documents in
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/h/hirt.august/images
>  
>  (Translation to be added soon).
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>>>>
Yes, corpses in an Institute for the study of human anatomy!
How strange!  Next, Danny will be referring to the experiments
made by the mad Nazi doctor, Frankenstein, who succeeded
in reviving one of these headless Ichabod Crane corpses.....
And lest we forget, remember the "eyeballs tacked to the walls" of
the mad Nazi doctor, Mengele, the "angel of death", as we have been
told by another "survivor".......Fie Fi Fo Fum, I smell the lies of another bum...


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:32 PST 1996
Article: 82684 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:14:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
    
     Why don't you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
     alive at Dresden by the allies,
    
    Why don't you post the photos of the people burned at Dresden?
  
  Apparently I will have to do so, since Nizkor seems too cowardly or
  dishonest to do so.  Look for it sometime in January.  I have a lot of
  scanning to do, and I have been compiling photos to rival anything old
  Danny Keren can post.
  
  
  I've seen these pictures and they look real to me. Piles of burned
  bodies in wagons. Burned bodies lining the streets are photographed.
  I'm not going to deny that it happened like you, blackmore, are
  denying the Holocaust.

Well, that really depends on one's definition of the Holocaust.
How are you defining it?
  
  
  In case you didn't know, and we all know that you don't care, German
  civilians by the hundreds of thousands were starved to death, worked to
  death, singled out because they were Germans and murdered by design,
  mostly by Jews in Poland hell bent on revenge and with the complicity and
  
  Wrong. It was mostly by the Polish goverment, the Czech government,
  the Russian government.

Wrong.  These governments, controlled by the clever Stalin, deliberately
appointed Jews as kommandants of the various concentration camps
where german civilians were confined, persecuted, and murdered.  The
total number of murders is estimated at around 3 million.  In fact, these
Jews were most eager to fulfill these murderous tasks, and boasted
about their adventures.

 I see you have dropped _Nemesis at Potsdam_
>  for the more sensational Sack book.

Of course the Sack book is not only sensational, as is most of the evidence
you rely upon to support the Holocaust, but it also happens to be 100%
accurate, as you ought to well know.

 I'm for more interested in the
>  historical truth than in sensational over-blown stories.

Like the Holocaust, which is the most overblown story in existence?
Now deal with the evidence provided by Sack.

 I guess it is
>  too much to ask what came first; the destruction of their countries by
>  the Germans or their brutality towards their German speaking citizens.

Please!  You know it is too much to ask.....You are walking on egg shells
with this subject and you ought to know it....

>  Most historians try to ask whether these folks supported the Nazis in
>  their overthorow of these countries rather than trying to equate it
>  with the Holocaust

Most historians would be uncomfortable with the real facts.


 Most historians realize that we are dealing with
>  different issues here. They realize that refugees kept coming despite
>  Western attempts to stem the flow. I guess it is clear that historical
>  truth is not your main goal here.

Which refugees are you talking about-the Jews from Poland, or the Germans,
expelled from their ancestral homes in Eastern europe as part of Stalin, Rossevelt
and Churchill's plan to exterminate millions of people?
>  
>  [test deleted]
>  
>  >
>  > doesn't equal German civilians caught in a legitiment 
>  >>  bombing raid.
>  >
>  >Dresden was not a legitimate bombing raid, as has been admitted by
>  >British Air Marshall Harris, known as "Bomber Harris".  You ought to
>  >brush up on your history before you open that trap of yours.
>  >
>  
>  Your sense of hstory isn't all that good either, Blackmore. I think
>  the study of Dresden and the bombing needs to go a little deeper than
>  one single English officer. 

Do you really think I have relied solely upon Harris for these facts?
If so, think again.  But harris is probably the best witness to this atrocity,
since he implemented it.
>  
>  [snipped quibbling over numbers of a horrid event]
>  
>  >
>  > The Nazis decided to conduct mass gassings and did it, mass 
>  >>  shootings and did it, exterminate the Jews and gave it their best 
>  >>  shot. The old orange and apple stupid trick.
>  >
>  >Well, what you say and what you can prove appear to be two 
>  >entirely different things.
>  
>  This sounds like something a five year old would say. Is your tongue
>  sticking out behind Chuck's back?


No.  To his face.
>  
>
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:33 PST 1996
Article: 82702 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:06:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <577npn$ohf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
  [Mr. Belling, if you could be so kind, please show a bit more competance
  when replying to posts. You have become egregiously sloppy about keeping
  the attribution to what people say in proper order. This makes reading
  your spastic Nazi drivel all the more difficult.] 
  
  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:  
    
    rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
   
       What I am trying to do is see if
   any of you have the same concern over what happened to the>  >  Germans as compared with what 
happened to the Jews.  Simple
  enough?
 
  
   Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
   not happen to the Germans.

 And what was that specifically, pray tell?

   Well, for a start, some three million "Aryan" German civilians weren't
   deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap. The fact is that millions of
German civilians....  
  
  Er, Mr. Belling, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Sure seems
  like it. Must be from those comic books you call a library. Too many
  pictures and not enough big words.
  
 [Mr. Belling's smelly dead fish snipped]
  
 Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
  the Jews.
  
   Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you're words
   don't make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

 I thought it was simple enough for you to understand:  The Nazis claimed it 
 was the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were 
 "getting their asses kicked" in the Soviet Union.  Capisce?
  
  And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany, Mr.
  Belling? 

Ask your friends at the synagogue.  Why ask me?  BTW, who declared
war first-England and France, or Germany?
  
  [Mr. Belling's ad hominem drooling snipped]
  
  BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities 
  in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.
 
  The big boom.  How aptly put.  Why don't you go tell the 
  survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
   
   Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
   of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
   them? 

 I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
 disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
 whatever family she has left.
  
  I see. But then you glorify dead Nazis and defend their mass murder of
  millions. Hardly suprising then that you'd like to taunt the Japanese
  survivors of the atomic bombings. 

Oh-I am taunting the japanese?  How quaint.  I think it might be a
good point of reference if you first post the evidence that the Nazis
murdered millions of Jews and then tell us how they did it, and be sure to
include proof.  i am still waiting for those reports allegedly conducted
by Dr. Larson on "gassed" inmates at dachau....what?  You misplaced
them?....Tsk, tsk.
  
  Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
   civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
   yep-pure military targets all right.
    
   The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
 Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
  ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)
  
  Well, you are in error on dresden.  
   
   Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
   amusing! Sherry's _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
>  >   in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
>  >   in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
>  >   Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.) 
>  > 
>  > Listen, Mr. Marky Mark:  The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned
>  for the figures released by the German authorities at the time of the
>  bombing.  
>  
>  Really. Then why did the Dresden City Museum cite the 35,000 figure as its
>  official estimate as late as 1995? (To my knowledge they still do.) 
>  
>  > The figure was stated publicly on National News Services at least twice
>  over the past 5 years.  
>  
>  Dresden City Museum. 35,000. 1995.

National News Service.  135,000. 1996.
>  
>  > Believe it if you want, or don't if you don't want.  It is all the same to me.
>  
>  Uh huh. 
>  
>  > BTW, I already referred you to the comments made by the Senior British
>  Officer 
>  > in charge of planning the whole raid. If you choose to believ your source, go 
>  > ahead.  
>  
>  And since when did I need your pernmision on anything, Mr. Belling of the
>  45 comic book library?  
>  
>  > For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
>  135,000, perhaps higher.  
>  
>  Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you? 

Already cited.  How could I be any more embarrassed than you?  A puppet
for a synagogue?
>  
>  > There never was an  air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole 
>  > history of modern warfare.
>  
>  Oh please. Hamburg was a far worse. And all of the raids against German
>  cities paled against the Toyko raid. 

Thanks for citing further atrocities.  Dresden was by far the worse.
Revealing that you never mentioned any German air raids.
>  
>  >  The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest 
>  >  estimates as well as estimates at the time.
>  
>  Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you? 
>  
>  >   _Who's_ "latest" estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum's,
>  >   that's for sure! As for "estimates at the time," the Nazis origionally
>  >   claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
>  >  Communists claimed 350,000.
>  >   
>  >  Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered
>  propaganda. 
>  > 
>  > You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.
>  
>  No, yo have repeatedly made appeals to your non-existant authority. Sorry,
>  Mr. Belling, but that dog don't hunt. Please cite a specific source. Or is
>  this too embarrassing for you? 

I will not do your research for you.  Look up the original reports of the
authorities in Dresden who had to dispose of the bodies.  However, that
won't do for you as it attacks your shibboleths.
>  
>  >   http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001
>  >   
>  >   But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
>  >   attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
>  >   tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.
>  > 
>  > No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  
>  
>  Since when did where the Axis death tolls restricted to military
>  casulties? Since _you_ said so? Sorry, Mr. Belling go peddle your smelly
>  dead fish elsewhere. 

Why should I, when the smell improves your stench?
>  
>  > These are men, women and children....grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
>  >  arms, all fleeing for sanctuary.....You have your images confused.
>  >  
>  >   I'm afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the 
>  >   Axis. 
>  > 
>  > The "citizens" were civilians.  Your images are confused. 
>  
>  Nope. I think perhaps it is _you_ who are confused. Obviusly you have
>  mixed up the fact that Nazis did not consider German Jews citizens of the
>  Reich with German nationals being members of the Axis by the fact that
>  Germany, their country, had treaty obligations to such.  

We get your drift Herr Rebbe.....
>  
>  >   According to _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
>  >   
>  >   "...the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
>  >   World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany  and Fascist Italy
>  >   (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
>  >   (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)" 
>  >   
>  >   I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly  _ignorant_ of
>  >   history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
>  >   Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
>  >   longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality? 
>  > 
>  > And who classifies babes in arms as the "axis"-you?
>  
>  German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling. 

Oh.  Well, by your own logic you have justified the shooting
of the the children of Jewish partisans.
>  
>  >   In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler's
>  >   unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,
>  > 
>  >  Why don't you tell us more about Poland... 
>  
>  Why don you? No comic book on the topic? 
>  
>  [Mr. Belling's boorish Nazi whining snipped]

Oooh...the facts hurt don't they?




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:34 PST 1996
Article: 82703 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:08:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57njcq$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329bf392.63813798@news.zilker.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:  
>  >  
>  >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >
>  
>  >>  Well, for a start, some three million "Aryan" German civilians weren't
>  >>  deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.
>  >
>  >Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap.  The fact is that millions of
>  >German civilians WERE forcibly expelled from their homes, robbed of their
>  >money and property, murdered by the hundreds of thousands in concentration
>  >camps to which they were sent AFTER the war ended.
>  
>  No, his facts are not wrong. These people were not deported to be
>  murdered with poison gas.  The politics of the time and the
>  governments seeking retribution (Poland and Czechoslovakia with the
>  aid of the Soviets) dealt unfairly and reprehensively with the other
>  victorious powers when it came to claiming borders and land. They also
>  tended to want German groups OUT of their nations. Not all of this was
>  fair or reasoned. History is rarely logical. There have been a couple
>  of interesting books on this subject that puts the whole thing in its
>  political perspective. But this isn't what Blackmore wants. 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Yes.  I will suggest one.  "An Eye for an Eye" bu Jewish author John
Sack, who details the murder of more than 3 million German civilians
after the end of the war by Jewish mass murderers, many of whom are
still wanted for their crimes and are hiding out in Israel today.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:35 PST 1996
Article: 82707 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:10:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <57njfs$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32954ac9.130282@news.awinc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:06:11 GMT, hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE)
>  wrote:
>  
>  >On 19 Nov 1996 23:08:55 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>  Indeed, the allies had used and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
>  
>  >Is that so?  Mr. Blackmore will surely be willing to post proof
>  >positive about this.  I believe that he cannot do this.
>  
>  Joseph Bellinger has been unable to back up any of his/hers/its assertions.
>  Stating that the allies initiated gas warfare in WWI is an example of why he
>  cannot. However, it is most interesting watching him go down the 'Giwer
>  path' of unsupportable assertions.
>  
>  
>>>>
As usual, you lie.  The use of gas was begun by the French.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:35 PST 1996
Article: 82708 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:12:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <57njji$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32978219.140711354@news.txdirect.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
>  On 22 Nov 1996 22:19:29 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  >>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  >>  
>  >>  >Are you asking me or telling me?  What I am trying to do is see if
>  >>  >any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
>  >>  >Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
>  >>  >enough?
>  
>  [text deleted to the relief of cogent readers]
>  >
>  >Apparently not, as many Jews survived the war.
>  
>  Oh really?  Well then, many Germans survived Dresden too. This
>  is proof that the bombing did not take place?  Utter balderdash.

Indeed many Germans did survive, no thanks to the allies.  And the
Jews survived as well.  In fact, they seem to be doing quite nicely
these days, especially in their repressive measures against the 
Palestinians.
>  
>  Mr. Curtis' remarks are deletd in order that he too can have the
>  dubious pleasure of responding.

The pleasure is all mine, I can assure you.
>  


>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:36 PST 1996
Article: 82710 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:13:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <57njlm$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
>  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
>  of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
>  big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
>  sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
>  wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
>  hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
>  behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
>  them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
>  lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
>  As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
>  a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
>  day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
>  shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
>  1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
>  right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
>  anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
>  imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.
>  
>>>>
I kissed the devils ass.-Accused witch at Salem Trials.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:37 PST 1996
Article: 82711 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:14:13 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <57njn5$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57anrq$foc$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <32978219.140711354@news.txdirect.net> - hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry
>  W. Mazal OBE)Sat, 23 Nov 1996 23:54:34 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>On 22 Nov 1996 22:19:29 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  :>
>  :>>>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  :>>>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  :>>>  
>  :>>>  >Are you asking me or telling me?  What I am trying to do is see if
>  :>>>  >any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
>  :>>>  >Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
>  :>>>  >enough?
>  :>
>  :>[text deleted to the relief of cogent readers]
>  :>>
>  :>>Apparently not, as many Jews survived the war.
>  :>
>  :>Oh really?  Well then, many Germans survived Dresden too. This
>  :>is proof that the bombing did not take place?  Utter balderdash.
>  :>
>  :>Mr. Curtis' remarks are deletd in order that he too can have the
>  :>dubious pleasure of responding.
>  
>  I have noticed that in each passing incarnation, Mr. Blackmore adopts more and
>  more the denier mantle and ceases his pretence at really wanting to get at the
>  truth.

What is your excuse?-rb
> 
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:38 PST 1996
Article: 82716 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:22:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <57nr77$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <578hlm$80v@access1.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
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>   mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <19961122210900.QAA07715@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>    wrote:
>  >Why is anyone interested in where these books are kept?
>  >A little book-burning party, perhaps?
>  
>      I am interested only because they would appear to require more storage
>  space than the average house provides.  But perhaps Mr. Blackmore occupies
>  a mansion.  His claim of owning 45-60,000 volumes seemed rather
>  farfetched otherwise.
>  
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
For your info, there are such places as storage units.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:38 PST 1996
Article: 82717 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:23:07 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <57nr8r$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <578tcj$1et@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
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>   rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) writes:
>  In article <578hlm$80v@access1.digex.net>,
>  Michael P. Stein  wrote:
>  >In article <19961122210900.QAA07715@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>  >  wrote:
>  >>Why is anyone interested in where these books are kept?
>  >>A little book-burning party, perhaps?
>  >
>  >    I am interested only because they would appear to require more storage
>  >space than the average house provides.  But perhaps Mr. Blackmore occupies
>  >a mansion.  His claim of owning 45-60,000 volumes seemed rather
>  >farfetched otherwise.
>  
>  Not farfetched at all.  In fact I own between 40 and 50 million books.
>  Perhaps, a bit closer to the former than the latter :-).
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>  Rich Green
>  
>  -- 
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
>  rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
>  http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>  "Remember the days of yore,
>  "Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>         -Deuteronomy 32:7
>  
>>>>
I wouldn't care how many books you owned.  Fact is, I own
approximately 65,000 books.  Would you care to buy any?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:39 PST 1996
Article: 82718 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:23:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57nr9j$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57anu7$foc$13@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <578tcj$1et@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> - rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard
>  J. Green)23 Nov 1996 23:27:15 -0800 writes:
>  :>
>  :>In article <578hlm$80v@access1.digex.net>,
>  :>Michael P. Stein  wrote:
>  :>>In article <19961122210900.QAA07715@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>  :>>  wrote:
>  :>>>Why is anyone interested in where these books are kept?
>  :>>>A little book-burning party, perhaps?
>  :>>
>  :>>    I am interested only because they would appear to require more storage
>  :>>space than the average house provides.  But perhaps Mr. Blackmore occupies
>  :>>a mansion.  His claim of owning 45-60,000 volumes seemed rather
>  :>>farfetched otherwise.
>  :>
>  :>Not farfetched at all.  In fact I own between 40 and 50 million books.
>  :>Perhaps, a bit closer to the former than the latter :-).
>  
>  ROTFL.
>  
>  The difference between you and Blackmore is that you have *read* yours.
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
And what's your excuse?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:40 PST 1996
Article: 82719 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:24:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <57nrbj$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329b88a0.50062596@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <19961122210900.QAA07715@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tutu101@aol.com
>  wrote:
>  
>  >Why is anyone interested in where these books are kept?
>  >A little book-burning party, perhaps?
>  
>  Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
I won approximately 65,000 books, which I am prepared to sell
even to the likes of you Nizkor devotees, if any of you ever bother
to read.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:41 PST 1996
Article: 82720 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:27:53 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <57nrhp$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <329c9c40.60942729@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
>  John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:
>  
>  > In <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
>  > wrote:
>  > 
>  > >John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  > >>Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  > >>books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  > >>urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  > >>could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  
>  Oddly enough, the law library at the local university, a two storey
>  complex, hols just about 150,000 books. This serves a law school with 325
>  students, not to mention 30 faculty members, ancillary staff, and the legal
>  community in this city (upwards of 800 lawyers.)  With that in mind, the
>  lying-troll-bellinger would necessarily have to rent space in a warehouse
>  to store his alleged collection of books.
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Yes, what of it, Raj?  I sell books.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:41 PST 1996
Article: 82722 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The bodies were buried in the antitank ditch or excavation'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:52:34 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <57nlv2$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <573sfm$n5o@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
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>   brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian Harmon) writes:
>  In article <56tinc$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>  
>  >I wonder why Mr. Keren wasted our time with comments
>  >from a man who admitted that he had only been present
>  >at two mass executions?
>  
>  What logic is this?
>  
>  Are you seriously arguing that because this man
>  did not see every mass execution, he must then be 
>  making the whole thing up?
>  
>  Or perhaps you think one witness should prove every
>  event of the Holocaust?
>  
>  weird.
>  
>  Brian Harmon  
>  ------
>  
>>>>
What I am saying is that one execution, if true, does NOT
prove your case.  Simple enough?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:42 PST 1996
Article: 82725 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:27:23 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <57nrgr$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329c9c40.60942729@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
>  wrote:
>  
>  >John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  >>Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  >>books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  >>urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  >>could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  
>  >	I find rblackmore's claim difficult to believe, even though my room
>  >looks like a library - I'd estimate that I've *at most* a couple of thousand
>  >books and that's in a room in a normal-sized house in Dublin.
>  
>  Same here.
>  
>  Bellinger claims that we exaggerated his claim about the size of his
>  personal library (hee!) and says that it is really around 45,000 books
>  or some such twaddle.
>  
>  At that rate, I would need twenty rooms the size of my study to hold
>  that many books.
>  
>  I have a friend who had about 10,000 books crammed into a large loft
>  in New York City. He had them arranged in stacks just like a library,
>  and he filled his place.
>  
>  You have to wonder.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Then wonder about storage facilities, John.  Fact is, I haven't had
time to catalog them completely, but they are there and ready for sail,
or is that sale?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:43 PST 1996
Article: 82727 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:30:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <57nrm2$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57fslk$4t7@access5.digex.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article ,
>  Rajiv K. Gandhi  wrote:
>  >In article <329c9c40.60942729@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
>  >John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:
>  >
>  >> In <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
>  >> wrote:
>  >> 
>  >> >John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  >> >>Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  >> >>books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  >> >>urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  >> >>could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  >
>  >Oddly enough, the law library at the local university, a two storey
>  >complex, hols just about 150,000 books. This serves a law school with 325
>  >students, not to mention 30 faculty members, ancillary staff, and the legal
>  >community in this city (upwards of 800 lawyers.)  With that in mind, the
>  >lying-troll-bellinger would necessarily have to rent space in a warehouse
>  >to store his alleged collection of books.
>  
>      Except that Mr. Blackmore only claimed 45[,000]-60,000 volumes, not
>  *1*45,000.  So it would "only" require a one-story building.
>  
>      Posted/emailed.
>  
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
Actually, it is from 40-65,000 books.  I haven't finished cataloging them.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:44 PST 1996
Article: 82728 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:37:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <57noii$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3296439b.50478931@news.gte.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

   chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) writes:
  On 21 Nov 1996 17:21:21 -0500, karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L.
  Power) wrote:
  
  In <56ulo7$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>, Jane Belling, posting as
  rblackmore@juno.com, wrote:
  
  	It is fascinating that people who are no more than handles are
  falsifying posted messages, making allegations from behind those
  handles, and are still expecting there to be a credible audit trail.  
  
  =====
  http://www.alquds.org:80/www/zionism/zionism.html The Dark Web   Pages of Zionism 
>  http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/welcome.html Zundelsite
>  http://194.243.91.7/ISLAM/ to the light
>  http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~lpauling/ Student Revisionist Resource Site
>  http://www.eskimo.com/~ralphj/ Revisionist Productions
>  http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html Reflections upon the Holocaust
>  http://flashback.se/~rislam/ Radio Islam
>  http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/LEUCHTER/leuchtertoc.html The Leuchter Report
>  http://www.hoffman-info.com/ The Hoffman Report
>  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/ Greg Raven's Website
>  http://www.codoh.com/irving/irving.html David Irving
>  http://www.codoh.com/ Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (Bradley Smith) 
>  http://www.pixi.com/~bewise/ Be Wise as Serpents
>  http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/index.html  L'Association des Anciens Amateurs de Récits de Guerre et
>  d'Holocauste (also in English)  
>  http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/ Arthur R. Butz 
>  http://www.air-photo.com/ Air Photo Evidence (John Ball)
>  http://www.adam.com.au/~fredadin/adins.html Adelaide Institute 
>  
>>>>
 "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people." 

(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/	



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:44 PST 1996
Article: 82729 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:39:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 56
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   rip@shred.com writes:
  gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
  
In message <56tpe7$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com20 Nov 1996
02:12:23 GMT writ
   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942: 
  [The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948, 
  p. 147-148]

 Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government 
 [Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure 
 is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. 
 Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about
  60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent
  can be used for forced labor.
   
  
  Again, noone should assign any credibility to this statement unless
  and until we see the original german, translated by a German expert in
  German. Otherwise, it's just compost.
  
  Thinking Man.
  
 


Whether these statements are accurate or not is hardly germane to
the so-called Holocaust, as Goebbels had no authority to issue orders
to either the SS or the Gestapo.  This excerpt could even have been
an interpolation due to the curious circumstances under which the 
diary was found.  In any event, Goebbels was not a witness to any of
the events in question.

That is the stupidest thing I have heard even Blackmore say.  Whether Goebbels
had authority to issue orders to the SS, Gestapo or the Boy Scouts has nothing
to do with his knowledge of the Holocaust.  Given that his source for the
diary entry is Hitler, I expect he knew what he was talking about.




Gord McFee
I'll write no line before its time

>  
>  
>>>>
 "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people." 

(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/	



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:45 PST 1996
Article: 82730 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:41:03 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <57nopv$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57aelq$8h@access1.digex.net>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

  mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
 In article <32949a6c.10104771@news.zippo.com>,
  Chris Carpenter  wrote:
   "The German revolution is the achievement of the Jews; the
  Liberal Democratic parties  have a great number of Jews as their
  leaders, and the Jews play a predominant role in the high government
  offices."
  (The Jewish Tribune, July 5, 1920)
  
      Let me give you some more information about source citation.  The
  purpose is to enable someone to know exactly what publication you are
  talking about.  Looking at the Library of Congress catalog reveals that
  there are a fair number of newspapers called "The Jewish Tribune."  What
  you gave above is almost good enough, but you should really give a city
  with that.  Once you do, that becomes a valid and checkable citation -
>  it's precise enough to enable someone to find the paper if it exists, or
>  discover that no such paper existed if it doesn't.
>  
>      Posted/emailed.
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
 "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
thus giving room for our own people." 

(Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)

More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/	



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:46 PST 1996
Article: 82731 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:41:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <57norm$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  In article <56tqia$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  > >  Speech by Hitler, January 31, 1939
>  > >  [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>  > >  Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol XIII, p. 131]
>  > >  ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  > >  Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers
>  > >  in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into
>  > >  a world war, then the result will not be the bolshevization of the earth,
>  > >  and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in
>  > >  Europe!
>  
>  > In that case he was a very poor prophet, as the jews are still here and
>  > apparently as numerous as ever.
>  
>  Why do you seem to have such a problem with that ? You're upset because
>  Hitler failed to exterminate the Jews, although he tried and succeeded in
>  killing over 6 million of them ?
>  
>  -------------------
>  Peace will not come out of a clash of arms but out of justice lived and
>  done by unarmed nations in the face of odds. (Gandhiji)
>  
>>>>
Why are YOU upset-simply because not enough Jews were killed
to satisfy your morbid fantasy with the figure pf 6 million?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:47 PST 1996
Article: 82732 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:42:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57noss$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57cr1p$9v4@access5.digex.net>
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>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>  In article <3299c533.24323755@news.gte.net>,
>  Matt Giwer (mgiwer@gte.net) wrote under the name R :
>  >On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:18:25 +0000, Chuck Ferree 
>  >wrote:
>  >>No orders were ever issued to kill the Jews? You really believe that? 
>  >
>  >	Professor Hilberg says there were no order issued.  Do you disagree
>  >with him?  What do you know that he doesn't?  Certainly he would like
>  >to include it in his writings if you can find that order for him.
>  
>      Eichmann, in his diaries, seems to think there was an order issued.
>  What do you know that he doesn't?
>  -- 
>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>  
>>>>
Why should we believe what eichmann had to say?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:47 PST 1996
Article: 82733 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:37:09 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <57ns35$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  rbs@arches.ogre (RBS) [Nazi coward afraid to post under
>  his own name] writes:
>  
>  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>  
>  ## He did see SS-men pour the Zyklon into the gas chambers.
>  
>  # He did not say that.
>  
>  Yes he did.
>  
>  # Where did you get it?
>  
>  He said it in Zundel's trial. This is mentioned in the post
>  by Orest Slepokura, which I responded to. Can you read?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  PS - Are you Matt Giwer? If so, why did you write to my
>       ISP and ask that he close my account? Why did you
>       threaten him that if he doesn't, he will be mail-bombed?
>  
>  
>>>>
Oh. Filip Mueller?  I have a letter written personally by him.



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:48 PST 1996
Article: 82737 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:06:18 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <57nq9a$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57n0i5$81t@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>
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>   uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : >  
>  : >>>>
>  : I will refer Mr. Roessler to the book by Isaac Kowalski.  he disagrees.
>  
>  Has the book also some title? No? And about what does Kowalski disagree?
>  
>  u.roessler                                       uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
>  
>>>>
You may wish to research my posts on this subject in Deja News.
The book is entitled "A Secret Press in Nazi Occupied Europe", and
this Jewish author was a member of the massive Jewish partisan
organization which fought against Germany in many countries throughout
the war.  His book deals mainly with some of the activities of these units
in Poland and Russia.  If you read my posts, you will see a different
picture than is usually described concerning this episode of history.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:48 PST 1996
Article: 82738 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No mercy on women, children, or aged
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:07:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <57nqbf$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3295DD00.790B@rio.com>
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree wrote:
>  
>  Well, maybe some felt that way and some tried it, (can one blame them) 
>  but it didn't happen. Some Liberators felt a little like that also, 
>  after touring several Nazi Death Camps, it wouldn't be too hard to 
>  kill SS troops. But the victims did not follow through although some 
>  may wished they had. 
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  This doesn't in anyway diminish the Nazi perpetrated Holocaust BTW
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>  
>  Chris Carpenter wrote:
>  > 
>  >  "Kill the Germans, wherever you find them! Every German is our
>  > moral enemy. Have  no mercy on women, children, or the aged! Kill
>  > every German  wipe them out!"
>  > 
>  >  (Llya  Ehrenburg, Glaser, p. 111).
>  > 
>  > More quotes archived at GOAL:  http://www.nilenet.com/~tmw/
>  
>>>>
What Chuck writes is untrue.  Care to elaborate?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:49 PST 1996
Article: 82739 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:08:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  
>  >tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>  >: 
>  >: 	Mr.Ho'ss' numbers of 3,000,000 are for up to Dec.1, 1943, when he
>  >: left Auschwitz as it's commandant. Another 400,000 (Hungarian Jews)
>  >: are said to have been liquidated after that. The figure for
>  >: Auschwitz-Birkenau ended up being 4,000,000. The figure now is said to
>  >: have been is around 1,000,000.
>  >: 
>  >: 	Where does this new figure come from?
>  >: 
>  
>  >For a thorough discussion of estimates and their sources,
>  >start with
>  
>  >"Dimension des Voelkermords
>  >Die Zahl der juedischen Opfer des Nationalsozialismus"
>  
>  >Herausgegeben von Wolfgang Benz
>  
>  >In the series: dtv wissenschaft
>  
>  Curiously, it looks like this may have been dated by the latest
>  discoveries of British intelligence material, and the estimate
>  of Jewish Holocaust losses may have to be revised up to seven
>  million.
>  
>>>>
Revised by whom?  This info has been available to historians
for years.  Where have you been, Miss Flower?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:50 PST 1996
Article: 82755 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'rblackmore' Lies About Goeth, etc
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:18:44 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 60
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  "rblackmore" lies about Nazis allegedly "executing
  camp commanders for killing Jews".
  
   Subject:      Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
   From:         rblackmore@juno.com
   Date:         1996/10/21
   Message-Id:   <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>
  
 # Hmmmm.  Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth,
  # Koch, and other camp commanders who abused the prisoners
  # under their charge.  Rascher was also executed by the SS.
  
  Goeth was tried and executed by the Poles, after the war,
  and not by the SS. "rblackmore" is lying through his teeth.
  
  Koch, as far as I know, was executed mainly for stealing
  state property. I'll appreciate full and exact details
  on his trial and execution by the SS.

Then research it, like you so often tell me to do.
  
  As for "other camp commanders", "rblackmore" doesn't tell
  us anything about them. Most probably, this cheap,
  lying Nazi apologist invented this part.

Listen to chubby Danny, who fancies himself a 
"Doctor".  How are those perverted photos on your
wall doing?
  
  As for Rascher, he killed a great many people during his
  ghastly "medical experiments", but these were done with
  the full support of the SS, including Himmler. Rascher,
  as even "rblackmore" admitted, was executed for a totally
 different reason - illegal adoption. Why does "rblackmore"
  mention him, then? Because he's a liar.

I have indeed mentioned him on other occasions.  Dr. Keren was
too occupied with his pornographic photos to notice.  The charge
against Rascher was kidnapping.  The experiments Rascher conducted
were mainly on criminals condemned to death for capitall crimes.  The 
criminals usually volunteered for the experiments in exchange for a 
commutation of sentence.

It was my understanding that Goeth was tried and
 sentenced to death by an SS court, but the sentence
 was not carried out, as the war ended.  Goeth was later
 rearrested and tried and executed by the Poles.
Are you saying this information was incorrect?   In any case,
the info was supplied to me by a Jewish researcher.  Are you saying
he lied to me?  Of course Danny wants people to believe that because
a few concentration camp commanders were sadistic, then ALL of them were.
So it stands to reason by the same logic, that because a few Israelis murdered
their Palestinian captives by beating them to death with a bat, then all Israelis
are murderers.  Is that right, Dan?

As to other Nazis who were tried and executed by the
Nazis, Keren denies it and he is a liar.  Perhaps he would care
to inform people of the case of Erich Koch, former kommandant of
Buchenwald?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:50 PST 1996
Article: 82761 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Americans die for anti-Semitic Germany
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:29:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57m6tl$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <32986a38.2223913@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>  Carpenter) wrote:
>  
>  >  "Whenever an American or a Filipino fell at Bataan or Corregidor or
>  > at any other of the  now historic spots where MacArthur's men put up
>  > their remarkable fight, their survivors could  have said with truth:
>  > 'The real reason that boy went to his death, was because Hitler's
>  > anti-semitic movement succeeded in Germany.'"
>  > 
>  >  (The American Hebrew, July 24, 1942).
>  > 
>  
>  "It is to attempt seeing Truth without knowing Falsehood. It is the
>  attempt to see the Light without knowing Darkness. It cannot be. "
>  
>                Frank Herbert, Dune
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Curious how certain Jewish publications viewed America's 
participation in the war.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:51 PST 1996
Article: 82769 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Doubts
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:37:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57m7d3$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329881C7.1813@rio.com>
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  God
>  
>                      Where was God in Auschwitz?
>  
>  
>  Never should I forget that nocturnal silence which deprived me, for 
>  all eternity, of the desire to live.
>  Never shall I forget those moments which murdered my God and my soul 
>  and turned my dreams to
>  dust. 
>  
>  Wiesel 
>  
>  
>  The horror of Auschwitz is a stark challenge to many of the more 
>  conventional ideas of God. The
>  remote God of the philosophers....becomes intolerable. Many Jews can 
>  no longer subscribe to the
>  biblical idea of God who manifests himself in history, who, they say 
>  with Wiesel, died in
>  Auschwitz. The idea of a personal God, like one of us writ large, is 
>  fraught with difficulty. If this
>  God is omnipotent, he could have prevented the Holocaust. If he was 
>  unable to stop it, he is
>  impotent and useless; if he could have stopped it and chose not to, he 
>  is a monster. Jews are not the
>  only people who believe that the Holocaust put an end to conventional 
>  theology.
>  
>  Karen Armstrong, A History of God, (Ballantine Books, 1993)
>  
>>>>
God was indeed there at Auschwitz.  That is why so many people
survived.  However, God had the day off at Dresden.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:52 PST 1996
Article: 82770 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fabian Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:39:05 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <57m7f9$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  The testimony of former Auschwitz prisoner Fabian
>  [Quoted in "Auschwitz: the Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by 
>  Bernd Nauman, p. 292-3]:
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  The Pole Stachik rode into Block 28 on a bicycle and called out: 
>  "Stretcher bearers! Two stretchers! One box! Two boxes!". If he said
>  "one box", we knew it would be a small execution: one family with
>  child. If he said "stretcher", then there was a big execution.
>  Sometimes when we got there they had already been shot; but that
>  only happened in small executions. When there were big executions
>  we lined up in a corner of Block 11. Those who were selected were
>  chased into the washroom and had to undress. The window was covered
>  over with a blanket. In the yard under the window stood the staff
>  of the SS. Everything went in double time. A certain Jakob took two
>  prisoners by their arms and marched them over to the Black Wall. 
>  Then we had to come running with the stretcher and stand behind the
>  SS men who were doing the firing. When the prisoners were shot -
>  they were shot in the head with a fairly silent Flobert gun - they
>  fell over. I grabbed their hands or legs and put them on the
>  stretcher. Then we ran to the canal in Block 10 and the stretcher
>  as tilted so the bodies could fall off. While this was going on
>  the two next ones were already being shot.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
And why should we believe what Fabian has to say?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:53 PST 1996
Article: 82771 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Devils Guard
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:36:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <57m7ah$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3297244B.7373@pop.erols.com>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   Walt Hingerty  writes:
>  Im curious, has anyone else read this book? It purports to be the first
>  person account of a unit of Waffen SS troopers who join the French
>  Foreign Legion and end up at Dien Bien Phu. It reads pretty good. I
>  liked it myself. The hero is a hard bitten type but his bravery is never
>  in question. Is this a true story? Or is it a novel. I have a paperback
>  and its not real clear. Thanks. walt
>  
>>>>
I also have this book and have read it.  It purports to be true, but
I have been unable to establish it's authenticity.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:53 PST 1996
Article: 82774 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get undressed. You're to be disinfected!
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:40:46 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <57m7ie$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a1c60c.2430448@news.spry.com>
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  Testimony of Richard Glazer
>  
>  And suddenly it started: the yelling and screaming. "All out,
>  everybody out!" All those shouts, the uproar, the tumult! "Out!
>  Get out! Leave the baggage!" We got out stepping on each other.
>  We saw men waering blue armbands. Some carried whips. We saw some
>  SS men, Green uniforms, black uniforms...
>  
>  We were in a mass, and the mass swept us along. It was
>  irresistible. It had to move to another place. I saw the others
>  undressing. And I heard: "Get undressed! Ypu're to be
>  disinfected!" As I waited, already naked, I noticed the SS men
>  separating out some people. These were told to get dressed. A
>  passing SS man suddenly stopped in front of me, looked me over,
>  and said" "Yes, you too, quick, join the others, get dressed.
>  You're going to work here, and if you're good, you can be a kapo
>  - a squad leader."
>  
>  		Work Cited:
>  
>  Lanzmann, Claude. Shoah: The Complete Text of the Acclaimed
>  Holocaust Film. New York: De Capo Press. 1995 p 36
>  
>>>>
I have news for you.  The black SS uniform was completely discontinued
at the beginning of the war.  Lanzmann has obviously seen too many
Hollywood movies.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:54 PST 1996
Article: 82786 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:18:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57m9q3$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57bg24$p9q$3@gruvel.une.edu.au>
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>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>  Ulrich Roessler (uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de) wrote:
>  : 
>  : The author was one Peter Seraphim, who is indeed dead for many 
>  : years now.
>  : 
>  : Biographical information about him can be found in G.Aly/S.Heim, 
>  : "Vordenker der Vernichtung", Frankfurt a.M. (I forgot the year 
>  : of publication). Mr blackmore will find it among his many books. 
>  
>  Peter-Heinz Seraphim.
>  
>  He is mentioned/discussed on pages:
>  
>  93, 95-101, 220-222, 257, 263, 278-281,
>  290, 351, 356f, 360, 392, 486, 493 and 503
>  
>  of Goetz Aly and Susanne Heim's book
>  "Vordenker der Vernichtung
>  Auschwitz und die deutschen Plaene fuer
>  eine neue europaeische Ordnung"
>  
>  published in 1991 by 
>  Hoffmann und Campe Verlag, Hamburg.
>  
>  
>  ISBN 3-455-08366-8
>  
>  I trust that information is precise enough
>  for even the deniers.
>  
>  d.A.
>  
>>>>
Sure, but it doesn't show why we should believe him.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:55 PST 1996
Article: 82787 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:20:33 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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> 

>  
>  
>>>>
I will refer Mr. Roessler to the book by Isaac Kowalski.  he disagrees.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:56 PST 1996
Article: 82789 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This war is our war . . . .
Date: 30 Nov 1996 00:10:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <57nu1l$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
  In article <5769ru$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
   In article <32947216.6915991@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
  Carpenter) wrote:

    "We are not denying and we are not afraid to confess, this war
 is our war and that it  is waged for the liberation of Jewry..

 Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry.  We are
 not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war
 production is  based. We are not only providing our full propaganda
 power which is the moral energy that  keeps this war going. The
 guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy
 forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the
 resistance. And we are the Trojan Horses in the enemy's fortress.
Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor  i
 the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most
valuable aid for victory." 

  (Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, in a Speech
 on December 3, 1942,  in New York City).
 

Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
 financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
 the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
 the Jewish race throughout Europe."

      - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
 
 Mark

 It looks as if Mr. Weizmann was the greater prophet......
>  
>  Too bad much of Eurpean Jewry was murdered by Hitler before they could see
>  Mr. Weizmann's "prophecy" come true, eh? 
>  
>  

>  
>>>>
What murders are you referring to?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:56 PST 1996
Article: 82790 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:55:08 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <57m8dc$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <57ce6d$7m3@news1.ucsd.edu>, fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano
>  Ledgister) wrote:
>  
>  
>  > 
>  > This leads me to the basic question about the blood libel:
>  > What were Jews supposed to have eaten before there were any
>  > Christian babies?

Goy babies?
>  
>  A little stuffed cabbage and some cool spring water.
>   
>  Just ask Mel Brooks.

Is he available for comment?  Or is he still doing his "Hitler Rap"?

  
>  -- 
>  "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
>                   Samuel Butler
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:57 PST 1996
Article: 82793 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:56:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <57m8f6$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57dtb8$tju$8@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <57ce6d$7m3@news1.ucsd.edu> - fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano
>  Ledgister) writes:
>  :>
>  :>Andrew Carol (carol1@apple.com) wrote:
>  :>: In article <329930DA.611A@ix.netcom.com>, "scarface!"
>  :>:  wrote:
>  :>
>  :>: > >Kurt Stele wrote:
>  :>: > a bunch of bullshit!
>  :>: > 
>  :>: > i know! every saturday we steal a christian baby from the nursery of our
>  :>: > citie s largest hospital, boil it alive like a lobster and serve it with
>  :>: > drawn butter!  it s utterly delicious when doused with generous amounts
>  :>: > of cajun hot sauce!
>  :>
>  :>: Oh you must send me the recipe!!!
>  :>
>  :>: Lately I've been partial to young White virgin.  They are very tender
>  :>: and are quite low in fat.  (So important in todays world).
>  :>
>  :>: I also prefer my Christian baby blood to be fresh.  I don't trust the
>  :>: supermarket stuff.
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>This leads me to the basic question about the blood libel:
>  :>What were Jews supposed to have eaten before there were any
>  :>Christian babies?
>  
>  Babels?  (baby bagels)
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Get the butter out for that bagel, Gord.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:58 PST 1996
Article: 82794 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joseph Burg on World War II
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:57:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <57m8hr$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32997948.3281453@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: rblackmore@juno.com
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <577hmu$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  >Let me ask you this-you admit that what Burg said is accurate?
>  >But he's only speaking for hhimself, right?
>  
>  Are you asking me or telling me?
>  
>  I don't think that what Burg said was accurate. I don't think he is a
>  reliable source for you deniers, and I don't like the way you compound
>  his inaccuracies by misrepresenting what he said.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Oh.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:58 PST 1996
Article: 82795 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:36:41 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <57nafp$3ed@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>
, but the
>  shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
>  hundreds were shot per day.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Of course you can prove all this and also tell us why we should
believe your witness.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:59 PST 1996
Article: 82796 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:59:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <57m8l2$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   karlpov@access1.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >The usual distorted drivel from Danny.  These photos at Belsen,
>  >are supposed to prove that six million Jews were systematically 
>  >murdered by the nazis.  They don't.
>  
>  No shit. Of course they don't. This is called knocking down a
>  strawman.
>  
>  Belsen is where Anne Frank, healthy enough in hiding through most
>  of the war, was taken shortly before its end, to quickly die of
>  typhus. Exposing a healthy young woman to typhus was among the more
>  humane ways the Nazis used to murder Jews. Moreover, it introduced 
>  a convenient deniability that morons like yourself, Jane, still fall
>  for, or pretend to. Do you enjoy looking like a drooling idiot? 
>  
>  
>>>>
Looking LIKE or looking AT one, Miss Flower?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:00 PST 1996
Article: 82797 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:01:55 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <57m8q3$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>
snip the bullshit
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
How does it feel to be at the losing end of a debate?  


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:00 PST 1996
Article: 82806 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:16:43 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57m9lr$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32984982.1830970@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>  wrote:
>  
>  >rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  ># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  
>  >[Quote from a report written by a Nazi official about
>  >mass murder of Jews in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine]
>  
>  ># And where may we find the alleged author of this
>  ># report today?
>  
>  >I don't know. He's either dead, or very old. Heck, now
>  >you can claim he never existed. Go ahead.
>  
>  >Has it ever occurred to you to check with the appropriate
>  >German authorities where these people are?
>  
>  But, Danny, Bellinger doesn't want to know the fate of these people.
>  He is happy enough believing that if you can't say, they never
>  existed.
>  
>  Just checking my lecture notes, that would be _argumentum ad
>  ignorantiam_." The eighteen year olds under my beneficent guidance
>  seem to understand the concept where Mr. Bellinger cannot.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
Give me one week with your students and they'll be begging
for your resignation.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:01 PST 1996
Article: 82807 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:18:04 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <57m9oc$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <577u4s$dtj@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>
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>   uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
>  John Morris (John.Morris@UAlberta.CA) wrote:
>  
>  : In , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>  : wrote:
>  
>  : >rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  : ># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  
>  : >[Quote from a report written by a Nazi official about
>  : >mass murder of Jews in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine]
>  
>  : ># And where may we find the alleged author of this
>  : ># report today?
>  
>  : >I don't know. He's either dead, or very old. Heck, now
>  : >you can claim he never existed. Go ahead.
>  
>  : >Has it ever occurred to you to check with the appropriate
>  : >German authorities where these people are?
>  
>  : But, Danny, Bellinger doesn't want to know the fate of these people.
>  : He is happy enough believing that if you can't say, they never
>  : existed.
>  
>  The author was one Peter Seraphim, who is indeed dead for many 
>  years now.
>  
>  Biographical information about him can be found in G.Aly/S.Heim, 
>  "Vordenker der Vernichtung", Frankfurt a.M. (I forgot the year 
>  of publication). Mr blackmore will find it among his many books. 
>  
>  He will now begin with speculations about the suspicious fact 
>  that most witnesses are dead now.
>  
>  u.roessler                                uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
>  
>>>>
What will you begin with?  That they can be believed?  Sancta Simplissimus!


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:02 PST 1996
Article: 82808 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mountains of shoes, of clothes, thirty feet high
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:15:26 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <57m9je$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a3ca71.3555275@news.spry.com>
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>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
>  Testimony of Richard Glazer
>  
>  All I could think of then was my friend Carel Unger. He's been at
>  the rear of the train, in a section that had been uncoupled and
>  left outside. I needed someone. Near me. With me. Then I saw him.
>  He was in the second group. He'd been spared too. On the way,
>  somehow, he had learned, he already knew. He looked at me. All he
>  said was: "Richard, my father, mother, brother..." He had learned
>  on the way there.

>  
>  LANZMANN: Your meeting with Carel - how long after your arrival
>  did it happen?
>  
>  It was...around twenty minutes after we reached Treblinka. Then I
>  left the barracks and had my first look at the vast space that I
>  soon learned was called "the sorting place." It was buried under
>  mountains of objects of all kinds. Moutains of shoes, of clothes,
>  thirty feet high. I thought about it and said to Carel: "It's a
>  hurricane, a raging sea. We're shipwrecked. And we're still
>  alive. We must do nothing...but watch for every new wave, float
>  on it, get ready for the next wave, and ride the wave at all
>  costs. And nothing else."
>  
>  			Work Cited:
>  
>  Lanzmann, Claude. Shoah: The Complete Text of the Acclaimed
>  Holocaust Film. New York: De Capo Press. 1995 pp. 39-40
>  
>>>>
Glazer-who was envisoning black uniforms when they were
out of service since 1939!  Those shoes....those clothes....
sounds like a gigantic rummage sale to me.......


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:03 PST 1996
Article: 82816 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:25:42 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <57ma6m$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57fjqm$poh@access5.digex.net>
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   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
  In article <577io2$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  
  [Quote from a report written by a Nazi official about
  mass murder of Jews in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine]
  
  # And where may we find the alleged author of this
  # report today?
  
  I don't know. He's either dead, or very old. Heck, now
  you can claim he never existed. Go ahead.
 
>  >>  Has it ever occurred to you to check with the appropriate
>  >>  German authorities where these people are?
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>  -Danny Keren.
>  >>  
>  >>  
>  >>>>>
>  >Has it ever occurred to you, since you try to use them as witnesses?
>  
>      What would the information allow you to conclude that you can't
>  conclude already?  Please tell us the point.
>  
>      Perhaps you are trying to suggest that such reports may be forgeries,
>  that you would like to find the author to ask if they are authentic?

They could be, but I am not suggesting that.  What I am suggesting is that
this was one man's opinion in one particular location, and I would be interested
in reading any responses to his comments at the time.

>  Perhaps you are not aware that at the time the reports were written,
>  British Intelligence intercepted and decoded many radio reports which
>  involved the same kinds of killing actions in the written reports.  These
>  intercepts involved the Ultra secret, which was so highly classified that
>  it was not revealed until years after the war - the intercepts were never
>  used at Nuremberg.  However, they corroborate the written reports that
>  mass executions were being carried out - and they are completely untainted
>  by Soviet hands.  Does this additional information allow you to form some
>  conclusion about the written reports? 

I have known about Ultra for some time and have also known about mass
shootings in the Soviet Union.....this does not prove the existence of gas
chambers nor does it prove that the Nazis were out to exterminate every
Jew in Europe.  Three million germans were also murdered after the war by
mainly Jewish agents set up with the blessing of Stalin.




From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:03 PST 1996
Article: 82832 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, II
Date: 30 Nov 1996 13:07:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57pbje$hii@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <32a0aa64.37216290@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  In <57nnt5$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  >>   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
>    
>  >>  [Duewell S.198
>  >>   IMT XXXII S. 234ff, PS-3358]
>    
>  >>  This is item III 115 on page 276 of
>  >>  "Das Sonderrecht fuer die Juden im
>  >>  NS-Staat" (2nd Edition)
>  >>  Edited by J.WAlk
>  >>  Published by CF Mueller Verlag, Heidelberg, 1996
>    
>  >>  ISBN 3-8252-1889-9
>    
>  >>  d.A.
>  >>  
>  
>  >Now you will prove that Frank had the authority to implement
>  >such a policy?
>  
>  It is the policy of the Government of Canada to undertake a
>  humanitarian mission into Zaire.
>  
>  Now will you prove that I have the authority to implement such a
>  policy?
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
That isn't an answer to the question.  You lose.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:04 PST 1996
Article: 82867 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs: EINSATZGRUPPEN Massacres
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:24:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57ngph$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/german/einsatzgruppen/images
>  
>  eg-01.jpg, eg-02.jpg, eg-03.jpg, eg-04.jpg, eg-05.jpg
>  Einsatzgruppen massacres in Nazi-occupied USSR.
>  
>  eg-06.jpg
>  Pyre of corpses ready to be set on fire.
>  
And who "discovered" this photo and under what circumstances?
And what are you intending to prove by it?  That there were shootings
in the USSR?  Everyone knows this already.

>  eg-07.jpg
>  Mass grave.

Identify it please, as well as the origin of the photo.
Inquiring minds want to know.
>  
>  eg-map.jpg
>  Part of a report detailing murder of Jews in the Nazi occupied 
>  Baltic states and White Russia by Einsatzgruppe (special action
>  unit) A, submitted at February 1, 1942. Includes figures of
>  Jews murdered by the Einsatzgruppen.

Shall we now begin posting all the available reports allegedly issued
by these security units?
>  
>  report-51.jpg
>  Letter from Himmler. Mentions 363,211 Jews murdered during 4 
>  months in 1942.

Will have to check this one out.  Will get back to you.




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:17 PST 1996
Article: 82880 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:36:25 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57ns1p$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
>  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>  
>  ## Why did your "revisionist" source claim that there are
>  ## no Nazi documents regarding gas chambers, while everyone
>  ## who bothered to do just a little reading about the
>  ## Holocaust knows that such documents exist?
>  
>  # I don't know.
>  
>  Do you care? Do you find the fact that this person made
>  a grossly inaccurate statement (to put it mildly), relevant?
>  
>  # Perhaps he lacked your intellectual acumen, your
>  # competence as a scholar.
>  
>  Perhaps. On the other hand, maybe he was just lying
>  through his teeth?
>  
>  # Perhaps he was umimpressed by what documents there were.
>  
>  Why would he be "unimpressed" with them? Because they
>  contradict "revisionist" insanity?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Where are these precious documents, Dan?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:18 PST 1996
Article: 82916 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:50:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <575nfc$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  > One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
>  > -Mark Van Alstine
>  > 
>  > Well, I'm still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.
>  
>  Still can't find a public library, Mr. Belling? I'm not terribly suprised....

 We cannot make
>  history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
>  Taylor 

It's a pity that taylor doesn't practice what he preaches.
  
  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

For those interested in Mr. Alstine's increasingly irrelevant Holocaust
defenses, please read his posts.

 



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:19 PST 1996
Article: 82917 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:53:32 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <57m8ac$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <579n6t$9ui$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <577hcq$idq@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com23 Nov 1996
>  18:56:26 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  :>>  In <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  :>>  
>  :>>  > Remember, I own approximately
>  :>>  >40-65,000 books, which your buddies exaggerated and distorted to 165,000,
>  :>>  >as is their usual way.  
>  :>>  
>  :>>  Uh huh. Sure you do. And you're really a thirteen year old girl, too.
>  :>>  
>  :>>  --
>  :>>   John Morris                                
>  :>>   at University of Alberta  
>  :>>  -- 
>  :>>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  :>>  
>  :>>>>>
>  :>Is that a proposal?  Shame on you!
>  
>  Look who's talking.  I don't remember seeing Morris trolling teenage boys in
>  the arcadia newsgroup.  How did you make out, Mr. Blackmore?
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Badly.  Seems they were all at your house.  Hope you bought 
enough butter to butter your bagel.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:20 PST 1996
Article: 82918 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Date: 29 Nov 1996 08:52:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <57m87u$a4p@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:

SNIP
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
Mark-go eat your buttered bagel.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:21 PST 1996
Article: 82928 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soviet Def Comedy Jam 2, Revised
Date: 30 Nov 1996 11:50:17 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 115
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

Some more devastating  comedy  from the Soviet Prosecution's Case at
 the IMT, all taken from Volume VII:

....."the Germans educated the Hitler Youth by training these young
 fascists to shoot at living targets-at children specially handed over to
the Hitler Youth to serve as targets."   

Pg. 447.

......"the little children were martyrs.  They were handed over to the Hitler
Youth who used them as living targets while learning how to shoot.  No
mercy for others, all for themselves-this was the motto of the Germans."

Pg. 447.

...."in Lvov, the Germans:  Spared neither men, women, or children.  The 
adults were simply killed on the spot; the children were given to the Hitler
Youth for target practice." Pg. 448.
(Imagine an ad in Germany:  "It's 10 pm.  Do you know where your children are?"
How reassuring it would have been for German mothers to know that their child
was safe and sound shooting infants on the Eastern Front!)

"Apart from the shootings in Yanov Camp various forms of torture were practiced,
namely, in winter a barrel would be filled with water and a man, with hands and feet
tied, would be thrown into the barrel, where he froze to death."
Pg. 448.  (This must have been known as a "Pop" sicle.)

Men would be taken by the legs and torn in two.   Page 448.
(Is this what they mean by "doing the splits"?)

Infants from 1 month to 3 years old were thrown into buckets of water and left to
drown.  Pg. 448.

"Women were strung up by the hair, after first having been stripped naked, swung
in the air, and left to hang till they died." Pg. 448.
((Absalom, oh Absalom....They must have been in a Biblical frame of mind to think
of this one!  I wonder what they did with women who had "bob"cuts?

....SS Obersturmfuehrer Tumann was particularly noted for his sadistic tendencies.
He forced groups of internees to kneel in a row and then killed them by blows on
the head with a stick.  Pg. 453.

"On 30 June (Wonder why they chose THAT date?) Hitler's thugs entered the city
of Lvov, and on the very next day they started a massacre under the slogan "Kill
the Jews and the Poles"..  After hundreds had been put to death the Hitler gangsters
arranged an "exhibition" of the murdered citizens by building an arcade.  Pg. 454.
(Ladies and Gentlemen-step right this way!  This was called "The Hitlerite Circus of
Horrors"  A big sell-out.)

"In Rostov-on-Don a pupil of the commercial school, 15 year old Vitya Cherevichny,
was playing in the yard with his pigeons.  Some passing German soldiers began
to steal the birds.  The boy protested.  The Germans took him away and shot him, at the 
corner of 27th Line and 2d Maisky Street  (Are they sure it wasn't Hollywood and Vine?)
for refusing to surrender his pigeons.  (Those Soviets NEVER surrendered!)  With the
heels of their boots, the Hitlerites trampled his face out of all recognition." Pg. 455.

"The village of Bassmanova, in the Glinka district of the Smolensk region, liberated 
by our troops early in September was one mass of ashes after the German occupation.
On the very first day of their arrival, the fascist fiends drove into the fields over 200
schoolboys and girls who had come to the village to help with the harvesting.  There
they surrounded them and savagely shot them all,  A large group of schoolgirls was
abducted to the rear "for their lordships, the officers."  Pg. 455.  (Someone must have once 
again been in a Biblical frame of mind when they came up with this one.  Compare with
this excerpt from the Book of Numbers :

Moses was very angry with the army officers and the battalion leaders.  "Why have you
let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very people who followed Balaam’s
advice and caused the people to worship idols on Mount Peor and they are the cause of the
plague that destroyed us.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual
intercourse.  (Mother, maidens, and Grandmothers-rb)  Only the little girls may live; you
may keep them for yourseves." Numbers-32:15-18)  

Or, this one, a few verses later:

The half of the booty assigned to the people of Israel-Moses had separated it from the half
belonging to the warriors-amounted to:

33,000 sheep
36,000 oxen
30,500 donkeys, and
16,000 girls
(Numbers-32:42-46)

Now, on to more Soviet Comedy:

"In the Ukrainian village of Yomelchino in the region of Zhitomir, the Germans locked
68 people into a small hut, sealed the doors and windows and asphyxiated to death 
everybody inside." Pg. 457.

..."as the victims thus brought to the place of execution usually shouted, "Down with
Hitler", Long live Poland, Down with the Germans, and similar things, the Germans
took steps to prevent the possibility of any such disturbances and began to fill their
mouths with cement..." Pg. 475.

"It has been ascertained from the testimony of N.H. Shoumilova that in July a German
officer shot a 6 year old boy merely because he was singing a Soviet song in the streets
of the town."  Pg. 496.  (He must have been off-key.)

Last, but not least:

"A group of hostages at Celje were strangled on hooks used by the butchers for 
hanging meat.  In Maribor, the doomed, in groups of five, had to place the bodies of
the hostages already executed in boxes and then load them into trucks.  After that,
they themselves were shot, while the next group of five, in their turn continued with
the loading.  This went on continuously.  Sodna Street in Maribor was all soaked in 
blood pouring from the trucks." Pg. 525.


Be sure to look for Soviet Def Comedy Jam, Part 3, coming soon to a theatre near you....








From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:22 PST 1996
Article: 82952 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!news.thecia.net!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 30 Nov 1996 12:25:59 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57p94n$egl@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-230.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes:
>  In article <57ntsf$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  
>  > >>>>
>  > And what do you claim to learn from this aggragated collection of
>  > malicious gossip?  Otto Strasser, whose brother was executed during
>  > the 1934 Purge of Roehm and his associates.  A real believeable
>  > source with no axe to grind.........
>   
>     I notice you fail to attack Friedlinde Wagner. And for a simple reason:
>  she had NO axe to grind, and he parctically grew up around Hitler at
>  Wahnfried.
>   
>  There are more than 50 interviews, articles, and other statements and
>  letters in the OSS Source Book.
>   
>  Again, instead of snickering, read it. Maybe you'll learn something.
>   
>  Sara
>  
>  -- 
>  "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>  Christian religion."
>         George Washington, 1796
>  
>>>>
I've read the drivel.  it is all malicious gossip, just like I wrote.  Friedlinde
Wagner repeats idle gossip.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:22 PST 1996
Article: 82959 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:10:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <57nn0l$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <579n6o$9ui$4@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  
>  Mr. Blackmore is the last person to whine about winning friends and
>  influencing people.  His hypocrisy in this newsgroup is unmatched.  He claims
>  to seek the truth and desire civil debate, yet he insults people and demeans
>  them in every post.  He used to claim he wasn't a "revisionist"; now he admits
>  he is.  He demands absolute primary evidence, yet refuses to post it himself
>  when challenged.  But he shows his true colors in the way he cuddles up to the
>  drunken criminal Hitlerhugger Giwer.

If I am now a revisionist, it is only the lack of evidence and tactics
used by hypocritcal Nizkor devotees that has made me one. 
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:23 PST 1996
Article: 82973 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:26:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <57nrei$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) writes:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  
>  John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  >Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  >books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  >urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  >could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  
>  	I find rblackmore's claim difficult to believe, even though my room
>  looks like a library - I'd estimate that I've *at most* a couple of thousand
>  books and that's in a room in a normal-sized house in Dublin.
>  
>  	Derek
>  
>  
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>  Version: 2.6.3ia
>  Charset: noconv
>  
>  iQCVAgUBMpoS9VXdSMogwMcZAQGfQQP/RSXMzGZ7fD5ngdss5B2rk3TzfwLIGEv3
>  a1x/d39w0ktYto2esw49Du7AEK3vIIaX6UIiE2OypxYw4KUAD+eY8z2yIoNpvniY
>  D8a/+T/SSVIGLx9OSalH7T/p34UkqkVCZQaQS3Tbqx0k2veioMWZgtE2F3TgpmWC
>  EUmY86WCwOI=
>  =q2kJ
>  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>  -- 
>  Derek Bell  dbell@maths.tcd.ie                | "Donuts - is there _anything_
>  WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html|        they can't do?"
>  PGPkey: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/key.asc|        - Homer Simpson
>  
>>>>
Well, I never expected that my books would generate this much interest.
As I have said, the majority of them are in storage facilities.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:24 PST 1996
Article: 82974 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:25:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <57nrcr$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57cva6$j2o@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  John Morris (John.Morris@UAlberta.CA) wrote:
>  : In <19961122210900.QAA07715@ladder01.news.aol.com>, tutu101@aol.com
>  : wrote:
>  : 
>  : >Why is anyone interested in where these books are kept?
>  : >A little book-burning party, perhaps?
>  : 
>  : Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  : books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  : urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  : could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  
>  No kidding.  When my wife and I got married, we each had about 1000
>  books--getting them all into one house was a major accomplishment.  Our
>  walls are lined with bookshelves, and we still have books stacked on 
>  the floor in the study.  Mr. Belling claims to have seventy times as many
>  books as we do.  Quite obviously, he lives in a palace.
>  
>  Bill
>  
>>>>
No.  I have storage facilities.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:25 PST 1996
Article: 82975 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:30:47 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57nrn7$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329d3c7d.82484128@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
>  John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:
>  
>  posted / emailed
>  
>  [text deleted]
>  
>  >
>  >Bellinger claims that we exaggerated his claim about the size of his
>  >personal library (hee!) and says that it is really around 45,000 books
>  >or some such twaddle.
>  >
>  >At that rate, I would need twenty rooms the size of my study to hold
>  >that many books.
>  >
>  >I have a friend who had about 10,000 books crammed into a large loft
>  >in New York City. He had them arranged in stacks just like a library,
>  >and he filled his place.
>  >
>  >You have to wonder.
>  
>  They are probably all porno magazines. He was always comparing
>  Streicher's stuff with what he saw in _Screw_ magazine and other such
>  stuff. Anyway, those things take up less room. 
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
Typical reply from someone like Mr. Curtis.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:26 PST 1996
Article: 82977 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:28:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <57nrit$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  
>  # With that in mind, the lying-troll-bellinger would
>  # necessarily have to rent space in a warehouse
>  # to store his alleged collection of books.
>  
>  Or -
>  
>  1) He stores them all in Dan Gannon's 25th dimension (this
>     one will be appreciated only by us alt.revisionism
>     veterans).
>  
>  2) Like Kin, hero of the great novel "Auto Da-Fe", he stores
>     all the books in his head (that is the least probable
>     option among the two).
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Well, Keren, you happen to be correct for once.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:27 PST 1996
Article: 82978 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:32:14 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57nrpu$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57ldrm$b1e$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <329c5897.1515774@news.srv.ualberta.ca> - John.Morris@UAlberta.CA
>  (John Morris) writes:
>  :>
>  :>In <57hbcl$bb8$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
>  :>wrote:
>  
>  :>>:>>	I find rblackmore's claim difficult to believe, even though my room
>  :>>:>>looks like a library - I'd estimate that I've *at most* a couple of thousand
>  :>>:>>books and that's in a room in a normal-sized house in Dublin.
>  :>
>  :>>:>Same here.
>  :>
>  :>>Gee, you're in Dublin too?  :-)
>  :>
>  :>
>  :>No, but my books are, and it's an incredible nuisance. ;-)
>  
>  I take it you have as much access to your books as Mr. Blackmore has to his. 
>  :-)
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Are you looking for employment, Gord?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:28 PST 1996
Article: 82979 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:29:27 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <57nrkn$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)



>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
By the way, I also offer hundreds of collectible comics for sale.  That
ought to thrill Mark.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:29 PST 1996
Article: 82980 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:31:35 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <57nron$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57hbcl$bb8$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <329c9c40.60942729@news.srv.ualberta.ca> - John.Morris@UAlberta.CA
>  (John Morris)Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:36:12 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>In <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
>  :>wrote:
>  :>
>  :>>John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
>  :>>>Actually, we are terribly curious about his claim that he has more
>  :>>>books in his personal possession than some branch libraries in major
>  :>>>urban centres. Aren't you the least bit curious about where the man
>  :>>>could possibly store 145,000 volumes? I know I am.
>  :>
>  :>>	I find rblackmore's claim difficult to believe, even though my room
>  :>>looks like a library - I'd estimate that I've *at most* a couple of thousand
>  :>>books and that's in a room in a normal-sized house in Dublin.
>  :>
>  :>Same here.
>  
>  Gee, you're in Dublin too?  :-)
>  
>  :>Bellinger claims that we exaggerated his claim about the size of his
>  :>personal library (hee!) and says that it is really around 45,000 books
>  :>or some such twaddle.
>  
>  I expect that Mr. Bellinger is exaggerating things just a tad.
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Surprise.  you are wrong again Gordon.  I'll sell no book before
its time.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:29 PST 1996
Article: 82981 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suchomel:r.i.p.
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:35:06 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <57nrva$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <3298f12c.178733454@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>  Stele) wrote:
>  
>  [Nothing but Nazi vulgarities]
>  
>  One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
>  realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
>  street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 
>  
>  For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
>  (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
>  that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
>  please visit:
>  
>  http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
>  http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r
>  
>  "In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
>  by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
>  1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
>  site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
>  planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
>  person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
"One day soon Mr. Blackmore will be eating crow pie."-Mark Van Alstine
Well, I'm waiting......


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:30 PST 1996
Article: 82982 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!192.220.251.22!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:35:50 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <57ns0m$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: hd87-060.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
>  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>  
>  ## Why can't you people read? Are you *all* mentally retarded?
>  
>  # Here Dr. Keren has afforded us a most egregious example of
>  # ableism. I don't suppose he cares, though, so long as his
>  # own pet ox has not been gored.
>  #
>  # But that is human nature, after all.
>  
>  Why did your "revisionist" source claim that there are
>  no Nazi documents regarding gas chambers, while everyone
>  who bothered to do just a little reading about the
>  Holocaust knows that such documents exist?
>  
>  
>  -Danny Keren.
>  
>  
>>>>
Really, Dan?  What are they?  


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:31 PST 1996
Article: 82991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news-hub.interserv.net!news.sprynet.com!news
From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:07:49 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <57nmrl$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <577na5$1cvm$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <574qe4$6i1@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com22 Nov 1996
>  18:12:20 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  
>  [deletion of Hitlerhugger Giwer's death threats against Danny Keren)
>  
>  :>>  Again, Giwer clearly says I should be killed because my 
>  :>>  opinions on history differ from his.
>  
>  :>Danny, you are such a silly little man.  Listen to poor Danny Keren, who
>  :>whines and cries like a whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
>  :>continuous insults.  You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
>  :>ready to strike, and like the rattlesnake, honest people should flee from you before
>  :>being infected with your pseudo-historical poison. 
>  
>  In other words, Mr. Blackmore thinks it is just fine for Hitlerhugger Giwer to
>  drunkenly rave three death threats against Dr. Keren.  Fine.  Just so we know
>  what kind of reptile we are dealing with.
>  
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
Who?  Keren?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:32 PST 1996
Article: 82996 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, II
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:50:31 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <57npbn$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <3297089B.2CA5@rio.com>
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:


>  
>  belling's constant pro-Nazi and very weak excuses on behalf of the SS, 
>  Nazi killers, thieves, torturers, sorry bastids gets a little old 
>  after a while. Not to mention the fact that he is a proven liar.
>  
>  Chuck
>  
>>>>
Chuckles-your bias is showing and its not a pretty sight.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:33 PST 1996
Article: 83040 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The Jews from two of these transports were gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:56:10 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 56
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References: <5742hn$kmh@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
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Snip
 Brack stated that the euthanasia
  programme had stopped and that the people from T4 would from now on be
  detailed to him on a regular basis so that the decisions taken at the
  Wannsee conference could be implemented. As it appeared that it would

  

This is an obvious fake, as there is a reference to the Wannsee
Conference, which had nothing to do with exterminating human
beings.  Better luck next time.
   
 Rubbish.  There are other documents discussing the Wansee
  conference and they make full reference to exterminating 
  the Jews and the Wansee conference.
  
  Hans Frank, The Governer-General of Poland, made explicit 
  reference to both the extermination of Jews and the upcoming
  Wansee conference in a speech on December 16th, 1941:

   ... One way or another, I will tell you that quite openly, 
  we must finish off the Jews.

And this is your "proof"?  A comment from the bombasitc frank,
who had no authority to issue orders to either the Gestapo,
Security Police, or OrdnungsPolizei?
>  [..]
>  I will therefore, on principle, approach Jewish affairs in the
>  expectation that the Jews will disappear.  They must go. [..]
>  In January there will be a major conference on this question in
>  Berlin, to which I shall send State Secretary Dr. Beuhler.
>  [..]
>  ...we will be able to take measures that will somehow lead to
>  successful destruction; and this in connection with the large
>  scale procedures which are to be discussed in the Reich.
>  -----
>  
>  The Januaray conference mentioned by Frank is none other
>  than the Wansee confernce.  The famous minutes from that 
>  conference were dated on January 20, 1942.
>  
>  Brian Harmon  
>  ------
>  Human memory is the glue that bonds the massive 
>  physical evidence into a coherent and unified history.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
get off your soapbox and read my post:  "Let's be frank about
Frank" on Deja News, where your whole argument is thoroughly
debunked once and for all.-rb


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:34 PST 1996
Article: 83042 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 21:59:56 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <57nmcs$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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   hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry W. Mazal OBE) writes:
  On 20 Nov 1996 00:39:59 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Erich Bauer
  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 77]
  
  [text deleted]
  

Of course you have proof to support this man's story, other
than more "eyewitness" testimonies?
  
  The best proof that _anything_  that Dr. Keren posts is true  is that
>  Mr. Blackmore denies it.

Ha!  Keep up the good work!
>  
>  Since his unfortunate return to this newsgroup we have been regaled
>  with countless one-liners.  His 145,000  book library must have
>  vanished like a thief in the night!

Devastating one liners, aren't they?  They are all your arguments
deserve.  By the way, that's 65,000 books.  more exaggerations
>from  the same crew that brought you the Holohoax.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  Harry W. Mazal OBE
>  
>  Nizkor (USA)  An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>  Over 1000 Megs of data: http://www.nizkor.org
>  Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>  Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:34 PST 1996
Article: 83043 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:01:01 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <57nmet$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <32965ff9.66428812@news.txdirect.net>, hmazal@txdirect.net
>  (Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:
>  
>  [snip]
>  
>  > The best proof that _anything_  that Dr. Keren posts is true  is that
>  > Mr. Blackmore denies it.
>  > 
>  > Since his unfortunate return to this newsgroup we have been regaled
>  > with countless one-liners.  His 145,000  book library must have
>  > vanished like a thief in the night!
>  
>  Or perhaps is because Mr. Belling's "library" consists of _comic_ book?
>  That might help explain his "countless one-liners." One is what one
>  reads....
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
If they are comic books, they are doubtlessly more informative than
the sources you rely upon, which aren't even good enough for 
comic books.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:35 PST 1996
Article: 83045 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fuhrer's Gaze (Thank You, ourhero!)
Date: 30 Nov 1996 00:03:39 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 65
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   ron.schwarz[at]nethawk.com (Delete spam-buster ([at]) to reply) writes:
  On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:33:21 -0500, schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka
  Perrrfect) wrote:
  
  In article , jstuart@tristar.org (Jim
  Stuart) wrote:
  
  Thank you, comrade!  The clear, firm gaze of Adolf Hitler is
   an inspiration to all Aryan men, to strive toward victory and
  to battle each enemy with courage and quiet determination.  
  
  And then to take the coward's way out and commit suicide.

I would hardly refer to Hitler's suicide as cowardice.  Fact is, the man,
whatever else he may have been, was not a coward, as his whole career
and war record amply proves.  The allies were simply deprived of the pleasure
of executing him publicly and later displaying his mummified head and sex
organs in some museum in Tel Aviv.
>  > 
>  >I suggest you widen your knowledge of your Fuehrer by reading some of the
>  >documents and interviews collected by the OSS during the war. Some of the
>  >wonderful things you'll discover are:

What is OSS-the Office of Stupid Shits?
>  > 
>  >Hitler got undressed and then asked Rene Mueller (an actress) to kick him,
>  >all the while crying that he "wasn't worthy" of her. She later "committed
>  >suicide."
>  > 
>  >Hitler forced Geli Raubel to stand over his naked body and urinate on him.
>  >She later "committed suicide" with Hitler's gun.
>  > 
>  >When one of Hitler's personal guards started a flirtation with Eva Braun,
>  >he was found at the bottom of a ravine behind the "Eagle's Nest." Cause of
>  >death? "Suicide"
>  > 
>  >What a guy, huh?
>  
>  The big question: where was Fahmi Malek at the time? 
>  
>  
>  
>>>>
The things some people will believe.  Well try this one on for size:

"Once I had an unpleasant experience in the camp, when a  (Jewish) doctor
visited me and my room-mates had to leave.  When we were alone, he said,
"I have to ask you to tell me a few intimate things about Hitler."

I stared at him, astonished.  "But you know that I can't tell you anything
"intimate" about Hitler."

"Frau Riefenstahl, I understand that you do not care to speak about 
such things, but I am a doctor, and you can trust me. (!)  It is no crime
if you as a woman slept with Hitler.  I will not report it any further.  We
want to know if Hitler was sexually normal or if he was impotent, what
his genitals looked like, and so on.  These things are important to us
for understanding his character."

Source:  The Sieveof Time, Leni Riefenstahl

Now. if all those reports which you mentioned were true, why
was this doctor begging Ms. Riefenstahl for all these sordid
details?  Fact is, your info is simply a compendium of malicious
lies and gossip disseminated by Hitler's detractors.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:36 PST 1996
Article: 83046 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:12:30 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57nn4e$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <57d2q5$6cm@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
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>   dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) writes:
>  r@s.t (R) writes:
>  >	It appears we have another koward here; afraid to report the
>  >"crime" as his wild imagination would have it.  
>  
>  	Tell me, when are you going to make good your threats to report Nizkor
>  to Revenue Canada? Or do you just lack the cajones?
>  
>  	Derek
>  
>  Read the information the Giwer-troll fears:
>  
>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html
>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Derek Bell  dbell@maths.tcd.ie                | "Donuts - is there _anything_
>  WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html|        they can't do?"
>  PGPkey: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/key.asc|        - Homer Simpson
>  
>>>>
When are you going to admit your affiliation with a synagogue?
Or don't you have the cajones, pendejo?


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:37 PST 1996
Article: 83048 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 22:04:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <57nmkv$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
References: <329a86e1.49616264@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:


>  In fact, I have posted the evidence as cited in a source which has
>  your approval.
>  
>  --
>   John Morris                                
>   at University of Alberta  
>  -- 
>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
>  
>>>>
You have never posted anything but your own arrogant opinions.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:37 PST 1996
Article: 83067 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore still lies.... Re: Questions rblackmore@juno.com (jbelling@sprynet.net) refuses to answer...
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:21:29 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   Chuck Ferree  writes:
>  Chuck Ferree writes:
>  
>  Right on!  Lies while into denial. OJ Simpson the 
>  double-throat-slasher, has the same problem!
>  
>  
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  whimpy lies, and timid bluffs. He's a candy ass!
>  > 
>  >    gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  >   To this venomous response I state:
>  > 
>  >      I would then ask you to demonstrate where I have lied.
>  
>  All one needs to do is read his stuff, it's all lies.
>  
>  Chuck
>  >
>  
>>>>
>From  a liar par excellence himself!


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:38 PST 1996
Article: 83081 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder in the Ukraine
Date: 29 Nov 1996 23:03:36 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <57nq48$8q0@juliana.sprynet.com>
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>   uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : >   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>  : >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  
>  : >  : Has it ever occurred to you, since you try to use them as witnesses?
>  : >  
>  : >  Mr. Belling, is it your sincere claim that documents authored by 
>  : >  dead people cannot be used as historical evidence?
>  
>  : >  Bill
>  
>  : >>>>
>  : No, only documents forged or offered by liars.
>  
>  The last resort of the helpless "Revisionist": 
>  
>                  'Lies, lies, forgery, forgery  ... '
>  
>  u.roessler                                         uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de
>  
>>>>
Do you deny that there are or were forgeries and lies?  I am far
>from  helpless.  i do not cry out "lies" or "forgeries" out of
anguish or desperation.  Would you care to review some of these
lies and forgeries?  if so, access Deja News and research all my
posts under "Soviet Def Comedy Jam".  There are a number of them.
Then come back and lets discuss it.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:39 PST 1996
Article: 83094 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:44:58 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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References: 
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  
  [Web page with a letter from Dr. Hirt, regarding the gassing
   in Natzweiler]
 
  # Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above,
  
  But of course. Why bother? They ask for documents. When
  the document is given, they don't have what to say. So
  they ignore it. They say it's not worth responding to.
  
  What a bunch of desperate, lame-brained Nazis...
  
>  The Natzweiler gassing is so well documented that even
>  David Cole, "leading revisionist scholar", agrees it
>  took place, as I recall.

Now, why would you refer to anything written by David Cole,
a "degenerate Jewish traitor and lying Nazi-boy revisionist scum"?
Simply because he might agree with your opinion?
You have no more use for David Cole than you would a pimple on your ass.
As to Natzweiler-the whole charge sounds ridiculous.  Now, answer me one
question:  Were these all Jews who were supposedly gassed and decapitated?
>  
>  # Isn't it curious how all the most damaging documents are
>  # signed by people alleged to be suicides or MIA's?
>  
>  Hirt indeed killed himself. But you're lying again; many
>  documents were written by people who were captured after
>  the war and have testified about them.

It has also been maintained that he fled or was simply "missing".
Which is it?  Will you begin another great "manhunt"?
>  
>  Kramer testified about he personally gassed the people
>  in Natzweiler. And you have great admiration for Kramer;
>  you posted that he is a truthful and reliable witness.

And accused witches testified that they kissed the devil's ass.
Do you believe them as well?  Kramer told the truth in his first
affadavit, before the professional interrogators got to him.  In his
first affadavit, he denied that there ever were any gas chambers.
>  
>  You shot yourself in the foot again, you poor, silly,
>  lying Nazi apologist.

At least I still have a foot left.  You shot your own off years ago.
>  
> .
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:40 PST 1996
Article: 83096 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 29 Nov 1996 18:46:48 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Lines: 15
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:


>  rebut it.
>  
>  Pathetic.
>  
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
What is more pathetic is that you seem to believe what you write.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:40 PST 1996
Article: 83098 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:07:28 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>  
>  >Yet this gas chamer has never been thoroughly examined, to the best
>  >of my knowledge.  No, I take that back.  It was examined by none other
>  >than Robert Faurisson and proclaimed a fraud.
>  
>  Wow, how authoritative can you get? Faurisson has the same qualifications
>  as Fred Leuchter: none.
>  
>>>>
You have even less.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:41 PST 1996
Article: 83099 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Hirt's Letter Regarding the Gassings in Natzweiler
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:06:18 GMT
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   100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
  
     100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) writes:
    rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
    
  Without even bothering to respond to the nonsense above, I will only
  direct the reader to note that Hirt is another one of those mysterious
  "suicides" or "presumed missing".  Probably ushered out of Europe
  by the "Vatican Connection" no doubt!  Isn't it curious how all the 
  most damaging documents are signed by people alleged to be suicides
 or MIA's?  How coincidental.
    
    Missing like Bormann. You should bother to respond.
  
  Good.  Let's dig into this subject a bit deeper, shall we?
  
  Good. A preliminary remark: you're always asking for precisions, but
  you put nothing. It's strange with your huge library.
  
    1/ Kramer said that he got from Hirt cyanide salts to gas about one
    hundred of earmarked Jews, that he did it and delivered the corpses to
   the mortuary of Hirt.
  
  So Kramer said he received cyanide salts from Hirt?  And where did Hirt
  receive them from?  Do you happen to have a document which shows
  Hirt ordering cyanide salts?  Now, would these be the one and the same
  Zyklon B we have all heard so much about?  If Kramer was in charge of
  the executions, why did he not apply for the salts himself?  
  
  Hirt was a physician and worked in the Civil Hospices, the biggest
  hospital of Strasbourg, that has its pharmacy, its laboratory of
  chemistry, aso. As it is a salt that was used, that wasn't Zyklon B.
  Kramer told he had to add water to the salt in order to begin the
  gassing and Hirt said that the salt was a cyanide. A physician can
  easily make it, for example by mixing an anhydrous acid (tartaric,
  oxalic, citric) with KCN or NaCN. If Hirt was unsure how to do it, the
  laboratory of chemistry was there to help.
  
  All these products are very common and easy to find in the pharmacy.
  Kramer told he had about a liter of salts for the four gassings.

Of course you can prove that Hirt actually received these salts and sent
them on to a camp?  Of course you can't.  it is all speculation on your part.
  
   2/ A lot of letters of Hirt to Kramer, another SS of the Ahnenerbe and
   vice versa still exist, as the one above, planning the gassing.
  
  All of this planning for this one little gassing??  All these documents?
  Then I ask where all the documents are relating to the mass gassing 
>  >of Jews at Auschwitz......
>  
>  I told already these gassings were supported by the Ahnenerbe. It was
>  of special interest for these Nazis to have anatomical studies on
>  "earmarked" Jews. I said too that the breakthrough of the 2DB was so
>  quick that the Germans left without destroying documents. See per
>  example the Nuremberg documents 016-NO, 085-NO, 086-NO, 087-NO,
>  116-NO, ..

This is not an answer to my question.  You are simply dancing.  Anatomical
studies of "earmarked Jews".  Do you know how ridiculous this sounds?
Why were these Jews so special that they differed from millions of other
Jews in Nazi controlled Europe? 
>  
>  >Another question, 
>  
>  Was it a question ? it looked like a statement.
>  
>  >how many other people were
>  >gassed at Struthof besides this "experimental group"?  
>  
>  At least 24 persons died in an experiment with phosgene (a weapon gas)
>  in 44 and in 43 three died in a series of gassings, testing an
>  antidote. An other experimentation with a vesicant gas killed 19
>  women. The list isn't exhaustive, so I focus on the group from
>  Auschwitz.

I see.
>  
>  >>  3/ Testimonies from Natzweiler exist about the gassings, as documents
>  >>  about the gas chamber. The gas chamber remained.
>  >
>  >Yet this gas chamer has never been thoroughly examined, to the best
>  >of my knowledge.  No, I take that back.  It was examined by none other
>  >than Robert Faurisson and proclaimed a fraud.
>  
>  Faurisson would say that an elephant is a pet if this could suit him.
>  The French Army (a commander and a group of officers) visited the camp
>  in Dec 44 and found a gas chamber, with lighting, a gas tight door
>  with a secured porthole, a device of introduction, an airing with a
>  fan (file n°3 in the trial of Natzweiler by the permanent military
>  court of Strasbourg).

And you can prove that this alleged gas chamber was constructed by the Nazis and
not the French, who purportedly "discovered" it.  And the Nazis just left it there
for them to refer to as evidence.  The Nazis really were stupid, weren't they?
Building a "gas chamber" at Dachau weeks before the end of the war. leaving a
gas chamber intact at Natzweiler....all so the allies could have all the proof they needed
that people were being "gassed".....I'm ready for my close up, Mr. DeMille......Aside
>from  all this, there are such things as legal gas chambers and legal executions.  We
have gas chambers in the U.S. where people like the Rosenbergs were executed for 
treason.  The Nazis certainly could have constructed one or two legal gas chambers
to execute criminals.

>  >>  5/ Hirt left quickly because of the unexpected breakthrough of the 2th
>  >>  DB, and it was found one week later 86 corpses without heads in
>  >>  special tanks in the basement of the mortuary.
>  >
>  >86 corpses found in a special tank in a morgue in an institute for
>  >the study of anatomy?  Hardly out of the ordinary.
>  
>  86 corpses packed in six tanks, all similar, anonymous, in the
>  alcohol, headless and without any visible death's cause ? You must be
>  kidding or you were never in an Institute.

An Institute for Anatomy, where corpses are dissected and preserved as
a matter of routine.  You must never have been in an Institute either.  By the
way, not all of the corpses in the tanks were headless.
>  
>  >>  6/ Testimonies from the mortuary exist about the delivery of these
>  >>  corpses with the same dates than Natzweiler (they were informed about
>  >>  the day and hour of each delivery and all the corpses were still
>  >>  warm), what Hirt said about these, and his final order to cut and
>  >>  incinerate the heads before he left.

Well, if you want to believe all that, fine.  Fact is, there is undoubtedly
a deeper explanation to all of this than you are capable of giving at the moment.
>  >
>  >Well, if all this is true, what can you tell us about the victims?  And in
>  >what year were these Ichabod Crane corpses found?
>  
>  The victims were gassed the Aug 11, 13, 17 and 19, 1943. The corpses
>  were found the 1st Dec 44 in the Institute by the commandant Raphael.
>    
>  >>  7/ The selection of the earmarked Jews in Auschwitz is mentioned in
>  >>  the chronicle.
>  >
>  >Are you then saying that all of the victims were Jews?
>  
>  Yes.

Really???!!?  Since when are Jews uncircumcised?  Since when are
Jews asian?  I will inform you that I have seen photos of these corpses.
>    
>  >>  8/ One French witness noticed something that he couldn't make up when
>  >>  he testified (in Dec 44), proving that the victims came from Auschwitz
>  >>  (what he didn't know).
>  >
>  >Well, will you share this with us?  Who was this mystery witness and what was
>  >said?
>  
>  It isn't a mystery witness, but Henrypierre (soon quoted in precedent
>  posts). 


Who is Herypierre, that we should believe him?
>  
>  He noted that each body was tattooed on the forearm with five digits
>  numbers,  copied all these numbers, and gave them to the justice.

Well, at some point Auschwitz ceased tattooing inmates.  Also, criminals 
were tattooed.

 Now,
>  how could Henrypierre guess that the victims had to be tattooed as
>  they were in quarantine at Birkenau ? Was there many camps with the
>  habit of tattooing the inmates who weren't immediately killed ?

Do you know the year when tattooing of prisoners ceased at Auschwitz?
I have met a number of Jews who claim to have been in Auschwitz and they
had NO tattoo.
>  
>  His first testimony was the Dec 16, 1944, before Birkenau was
>  liberated by the Russians. Moreover, if he didn't even know that the
>  victims came from Natzweiler, he didn't know that they came in fact
>  from Birkenau.
>  
>  How then could he make up these numbers, how could he guess that they
>  were previously in quarantine at Birkenau and the habit of Auschwitz ?

That is a pertinent question.  How could he?
>  
>  Then, the victims came from Birkenau. The chronicle mentions the
>  selection by Beger from the Ahnenerbe and the quarantine (entry: Jun
>  15, 1943).
>  
>  They traveled to Rothau and were gassed by Kramer according to his own
>  testimony,

In his initial detailed statement Kramer denied the existence of gas chambers.
His interrogators were not pleased with that response.  So, he was induced
to give a second statement, which I reject.  Witches were similarly induced
to claim that they had kissed the devil's ass.  Do you believe them?

 at four dates suited with Hirt (testimonies: the driver of
>  the van; a farmer - the gas chamber is very close to the farm - ;
>  several inmates and among them a man who built the introduction
>  device; the two preparators of the mortuary; a secretary of the
>  Ahnenerbe who typed the list of the selection, aso).

If these people were gassed, then I can only say that these were legal
gassing of people who had committed some sort of crime.

>  >>  Now, I'm curious to see how you will manage to uphold that no gassing
>  >>  occurred in Natzweiler ?
>  
>  >Now, I am curious as to how you will answer my questions.
>  
>  Now, I'm still curious to see how you will manage to uphold that no
>  gassing occurred in Natzweiler.

What you write runs contrary to logic and the evidence.  Especially the
comment that these people were all Jews, as I have already pointed out.
>  
>  With no fact and more and more evading questions ? 

With no fact and more and more distorted circumstances?
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:42 PST 1996
Article: 83103 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from MAIDANEK Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:18:20 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek/images
>  
>  maidanek-01.jpg
>  Shoes of the victims piled up in Maidanek camp.


What a rummage sale that must have been!
>  
>  maidanek-02.jpg
>  Burned corpses of Maidanek inmates.

Of course these people had died during epidemics.  Dan would
prefer that they were left to stink and rot.  Better visuals for his
photo collection.
>  
>  Maidanek_Crematorium.jpg
>  The crematorium in Maidanek.

Now it is a crime to build a crematorium!
>  
>  

>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:43 PST 1996
Article: 83104 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from NORDHAUSEN Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:19:12 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/nordhausen/images
>  
>  nordhausen-01.jpg, nordhausen02.jpg:
>  
>  Murdered inmates.

Uh, excuse me?  You have all the details, I assume.  In fact,
many inmates died as the result of allied bombings.
>  
>  
> 
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:44 PST 1996
Article: 83105 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from BUCHENWALD Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:16:45 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images
>  
>  buchenwald01.jpg, buchenwald03.jpg:
>  Emaciated corpses of the inmates.

I would say these people wasted away from typhus, which is a
wasting disease.
>  
>  buchenwald02.jpg:
>  Artifacts made from corpses of inmates.

What artifacts are these Danny?
>  
>  shrunken.jpg: 
>  The shrunken head of an inmate.

This "shrunken head" was obtained from a museum in
South America.  Can't you just envision the sight-a fat
German sergeant stirring heads with a big stick
 in a vast, smouldering cauldron in the middle of the camp,
and then hanging the heads out to dry on the Siegfried Line...

"I'm going to hang all my heads out on the Siegfried line....."

>  
>  buchenwald04.jpg: 
>  German civilians living near the camp, after the American troops 
>  have taken them to Buchenwald to witness the horrors. Notice how 
>  well-dressed and well-fed they are.

These germans were not criminals, as were thousands of camp inmates.
Furthermore, they were not infected with typhus.  that would take about another
year.....

You seem to have serious psychological problems, Dan...You ought to seek
professional help.....


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:44 PST 1996
Article: 83111 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:20:15 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
  # dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
  
  [web page with photos of inmates burned alive by the
  Nazis in Thekla camp]
  
  # Why don't you post the photos of mothers and
  # infants burned alive at Dresden by the allies,
  
  I actually posted such a photo; it's in Nizkor's
  web site. BTW, another reason for which I post the
  Thekla photos is because of the lie put forward by
  the senile "revisionist scholar", Faurisson, that
  the Nazis never burned people alive.

Please.  That was not a policy and you know it.  Aside from
that, you should also be aware of the fact that the culprit responsible
for this crime, was caught and executed.  And the responsiblity for
this act rested solely with him, a minor official who made a criminal
decision on his own initiative, which you now attempt to distort and
use to mislead people.  How unprofessional!
>  
>  # BTW, perhaps you will advise us who the inmatews
>  # at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
>  
>  You're suggesting they *deserved* to be burned alive?

Please don't answer my question with a question.
>  
>  These people are just incredible. I am sure Hoess would
>  have loved to have these "revisionist scholars" working
>  for him.

It might have gone better for him than it did.  Perhaps he would
have received fair representation.  Also, Hoess had nothing
to do with Thekla.
>  
>  # Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was
>  # committed on the initiative of ONE man
>  
>  It's always "one man", right?

In this case it certainly is.
>  
>  # who was later punished for his crime.
>  
>  By who?

An allied court.  It should have been a German court,
and would have been, had nopt the allies usurped the
right of Germans to try their own nationals.
>  
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:45 PST 1996
Article: 83112 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:28:50 GMT
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>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  In message <577kh7$ln0@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com23 Nov 1996
>  19:49:59 GMT writes:
>  :>
>  :>>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
>  :>>  In message <32940568.28868760@news.txdirect.net> - hmazal@txdirect.net (Harry
>  :>>  W. Mazal OBE)Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:57:18 GMT writes:
>  :>>  :>
>  :>>  :>On 20 Nov 1996 09:59:31 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>  :>>  :>
>  :>>  
>  :>>  [proof positve that Blackmore is a liar deleted]
>  :>>  
>  :>>  :>Mr.  Blackmore is a liar.  Get used to it.
>  :>>  
>  :>>  Thank you Mr. Mazal, but we were already used to it.
>  
>  :>We?
>  
>  Yup.
>  
>  --
>  Gord McFee
>  I'll write no line before its time
>  
>  
>>>>
The whole synagogue must be overjoyed.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:46 PST 1996
Article: 83113 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Power of political pressure
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:26:51 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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>   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>  In article <32970dc3.160106@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
>  Carpenter) wrote:
>  
>  >  "There is only one Power which really counts: The Power of
>  > Political Pressure. We  Jews are the most powerful people on Earth,
>  > because we have this power, and we know how to apply it."
>  > 
>  >  (Jewish Daily Bulletin, 7/27/1935)
>  > 
>  
>   "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
>  financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
>  the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
>  the Jewish race throughout Europe."
>  
>       - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
>  
>  Mark
>  
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>  
>  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
>>>>
"One day soon Mr. Blackmore will be eating crow pie."-Mark Van Alstine.
Well, I am waiting for you to serve it up.


From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:47 PST 1996
Article: 83114 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photographs from THEKLA Camp
Date: 29 Nov 1996 19:57:24 GMT
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   Chuck Ferree  writes:
  Chuck Ferree wrote:
  
  Okay, rbl, you gonna kick my old beat up ass...huh?  Well good luck, 
  pal.
  
  
  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
   
      Chuck Ferree  writes:
     Chuck Ferree writes:
   
     rbl, why must everyone else do your work for you? You lazy bastid!!!
  
  When one reads the rest of this post, add up up the items this guy 
  proves are the truth, as opposed to his weird opinions. Opinions don't 
  count. Facts count. 
   
   
     rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
   
      Why don't you post the photos of mothers and infants burned
      alive at Dresden by the allies,
  
  Yeah, turkey, we lit matches and set the innocent mommies and babies 
  on fire and watched them burn. Unlike your Nazi pals, who just said 
  stuff like eenie, meenie, minny, moe, into the burning pit you go. 
>  Nothing abstract about that. Right???

Of course you can prove this without resorting to your famous
"eyewitness" right, Chuck?  You will provide us with the written
directive to throw people into a burning pit?  Sure, you will.......
Only famed novelist Elie Wiesel and the like could come up with this
sort of nonsense, and it takes a peculiar bird to believe it.
   
    Why don't you post the photos of the people burned at Dresden?
   
   Apparently I will have to do so,
  
  "apparently" another broken promise! No pictures will be posted, just 
  more pro-natsie baloney. Common, give us a break!

I will be scanning soon, much to Danny Keren's delight!
  
  
  
  clips  he's bluffing some more!
  
  
   You're
    so hep on tit for tat bull. One dead Jew starved to death, worked to
    death, gassed to death, singled out because they were Jews, murdered
    by design,

Yep, one dead German starved to death, worked to death, singled out 
because they were Germans, murdered by design, by people like
Shlomo, who is still wanted for questioning by legal authorities in Poland,
for his part in the mass murder of Germans after the war ended.....
   
   In case you didn't know, and we all know that you don't care, German
   civilians by the hundreds of thousands were starved to death, worked to
   death, singled out because they were Germans and murdered by design,
   mostly by Jews in Poland
  
  First of all I care about cruelty just as much as you do, pal, maybe 
  more.

Prove it, then!

 Second, thousands of German civilians were not starved to death, 
>  or worked to death, etc. by Jews in Poland after the war, because 
>  there weren't any Jews left in Poland after the war.

Chuck-I hate to burst your bubble, but I have to.  maybe then you will
begin to view things a bit more sensibly-maybe not.  But here goes-
>From  the AP Wire Newsservice, 1946:

"The Military Government's displaced persons branch stated that
the Jewish population of DPs in the US zone had almost doubled
in the past four months, rising to 70,216 receiving UNRRA care.
McNarney said there also were 27,000 Jews in Austrian camps,
or a total of more than 97,000 in Austria and Germany.  Most of them
were said to have fled from Poland."

"General Joseph T. McNarney, American commander in Europe,
stated on August 9 that he was trying to stop a "well-organized"
movement of Jews into the American zone of Germany and estimated
that, after the UNRRA program ended, it would cost US taxpayers at
least $80,000,000 annually to care for displaced persons."

From:  The Associated Press News Annual, 1946.

Also, from the same source:

"A boy's tale that Jews had kidnapped him set mobs raging through
the streets of Kielce in Poland's worst postwar pogrom that killed 41
and injured many others-mostly Jews-before government armored
cars restored order in that city of 60,000."

Another "ritual murder" allegation?  The year? 1941.  The place?
Kielce, Poland.  The reason for the riots?  An allegation of attempted
ritual murder.  I wonder why the Poles would initiate a pogrom against the
Jews of Poland, who had all allegedly been wiped out by the Nazis, according
to Chuck?

 This is not to 
>  stick up for the Soviets, because I know they were a bunch of mean 
>  bastids also.

Now, who is Shlomo and why is he wanted for questioning in Poland
on charges of mass murder of german civilians?  Why he is hiding out
like a cowardly wretch in Israel?  
>  
>  
>  clips
>  
>  
>  
>  doesn't equal German civilians caught in a legitiment
>  > >  bombing raid.
>  > 
>  > Dresden was not a legitimate bombing raid, as has been admitted by
>  > British Air Marshall Harris, known as "Bomber Harris". 
>  
>  Harris had regrets as did Churchill, but that doesn't mean Dresden was 
>  not a legitiment military target. Everything was a legitiment military 
>  target during WW-II, by both sides. The idea was to force the Germans 
>  to quit fighting a lost cause. The stupid leaders just let their 
>  population take the punishment. Same as Iraq. 

Is that what you believe, Chuck?
>  
>   You ought to
>  > brush up on your history before you open that trap of yours.
>  
>  Histroy....smishtory. Historical facts mean to you, what you decide 
>  they mean to you. Truth and facts don't count, as you have proven 
>  about a kazillion times.

If I didn't know better, I would think you are talking about your
own interpretation of "history".  History to you means whatever
SHAEF told you in 1945.
>  
>  > 
>  >  Nobody decided to burn 37,0000 or so Germans to death at
>  > >  Dresden.
>  > 
>  > You have your figures wrong.  The real figure is 137,000 and possibly
>  > higher
>  
>  Pick a number, pal...nobody knows for certain.

137,000 is now accepted as the low figure for the number of civilian
deaths.
>  
>  clipped...more lies
>  
>  
>  >  The Nazis decided to conduct mass gassings and did it, mass
>  > >  shootings and did it, exterminate the Jews and gave it their best
>  > >  shot. The old orange and apple stupid trick.
>  > 
>  > Well, what you say and what you can prove appear to be two
>  > entirely different things.
>  
>  
>  Look whose talking. Never proves a thing. You saying that the Nazis 
>  *didn't* mass gas, mass shoot, mass starve, in one way or 
>  another...murder millions of Jews and others during the war? You 
>  saying that? 

I have seen no convincing evidence for proof of illegal gas chambers
used in an attempt to exterminate the Jewish population in Europe.
Jews were shot in masses in the Soviet Union, in the midst of the
most brutal partisan war ever witnessed in mankind's history.  Atrocities
were committed by all sides during the second world war, including the
Jews.  Germans were also starved to death after the war by jews in 
concentration camps in Poland and Czechoslovakia. 

Tens of thousands of Jews served as members of the partisans during
the war all throughout Europe and committed many gory atrocities.
Over 1.5 million Jews fought as combatants against the germans in the various
allied forces during world war two.  This would make them every bit as much
of an enemy to the Axis as any other ally. All these facts taken together
constitute the immense
tragedy of the war and its aftermath and no one person or organization is
to blame.
>  
>   >   under heat so intense that the
>  > >  > corpses actually melted together?
>  > >
>  > >  That's what happened to Jews who were burned alive by the Germans.

Jews were NEVER burned alive en masse by the Nazis, and you know it.
>  
>  > >
>  > >   BTW, perhaps you will
>  > >  > advise us who the inmatews at Thekla were and why they were arrested.
>  > >  > Also, the crime of killing the inmates at Thekla was committed on the
>  > >  > initiative of ONE man who was later punished for his crime.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  Look it up, dummy. We don't work for you. You wanna know, do your own
>  > >  research.

I have done it.  Now I suggest that you look it up.  I can't do all your
research for you.
>  
>  Tell it like it really is. Germans died, people from every country in 
>  Europe died.  (300,000 plus Anericans died) Don't expect me to feel 
>  more sorry for German-Austrian deaths, when you know that I saw what 
>  they did in five major Death camps and other sub-camps. For the most 
>  part, the innocent Germans who died, had a much easier time dying than 
>  the millions of Jews and others murdered by the Nazis

How many camps did you see after the war in Poland and Czechslovakia,
where Jews like Shlomo murdered millions of german civilians?
  How many of those did
you see, Chuck?
  

>  > >
>  > >>>>
>  
>>>>



From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:47 PST 1996
Article: 83149 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: 29 Nov 1996 20:43:11 GMT
Organization: Sprynet News Service
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   ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) writes:
  "jblackmore":
   
   What I am trying to do is see if
   any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
  Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
   enough?
   
   
   
  Chuck Ferree:
  
   Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
  not happen to the Germans. What happened to the Germans was as I seem 
   to recall: they started something they couldn't finish, and got their 
   collective asses kicked. Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans 
   to be murdered by the millions. That's what happened to the Jews. 
   Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.
   BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities in 
   Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.
   
   
  "jblackmore":
   
   Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
   civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
   yep-pure military targets all right.
>   
>   
>   
>  d.A.:
>  
>  I do not claim to speak for any other contributor to this
>  newsgroup, but I, for one, *do* have great sympathy for
>  innocent victims of war. That is part of the reason I
>  share Ossietzky's and Russell's pacificism.
>   
>  You should, however, bear in mind that the bombing of
>  Dresden also *saved* innocent lives in Dresden. Viktor
>  Klemperer was one and he mentions this in his book
>  "LTI".

Well, that is a unique perspective indeed.  And the shooting
of Jews on the eastern front saved lives as well, I take it?
>   
>  The extent to which the population of a country shares
>  or bears responsibility for the actions and policies
>  of its government(s) depends on numerous factors. If
>  a country is truly democratic, then the actions and
>  policies of the government are legitimately the
>  responsibility of its citizenry with suffrage, otherwise
>  the degree of responsibility varies.

Nice words without any particular significance.
>   
>  Of course this does *not* mean that each individual 
>  is/was in agreement with policy and/or action.
>   
>  I put it to you that the customs official's son from
>  Braunau had substantial, even overwhelming, support
>  for about a decade from his compatriots. To that
>  extent at least, claiming that all the victims of
>  the bombing of Dresden were innocent victims is
>  fatuous.

For you, perhaps.

 To give one simple example, the Gestapo's
>  local headquarters were destroyed. I cannot accept
>  that members of the Gestapo (or the SS) were "innocent
>  victims". After all, we have frequently heard that
>  these formed Hitlers enforcers and that it was fear
>  of them that prevented ordinary Germans from behaving
>  courageously or even just decently.

Not every Gestapo official was a criminal.  They were policemen
enforcing the laws of the land.  By this logic, every police officer
or magistrate who upheld the "separate but equal" laws in the
Southern states was also a criminal,
>   
>  And while a "tit-for-tat" checklist is distasteful,
>  could you inform the readers who are new how long
>  after Dresden did the bombing of Guernica occur?

Why don't you first inform the readers of the crimes committed by
the "Red Brigade" in Spain first?

>  While you're at it, you could correct any misconceptions
>  below:
>   
>  I understand that Germany and England had been at war for
>  nearly 5 1/2 years when Dresden was bombed, and that by
>  this stage, cities like Coventry and London had been
>  subjected to heavy and sustained bombings.

What has London and Coventry to do with the mass murder of
137,000 human beings with incendiary bombs?  where are your morals
or standards?  No where near this number of people was ever killed in the
bombings og England throughout the entire duration of the war.  it was also
the English who first bombed civilians-most notably children in a Berlin schoolhouse
in 1940.  The Luftwaffe was strictly committed to military targets until Britain began
its policy of terror bombing civilians.  You speak of Coventry....let's speak of
Nuremberg, Berlin, Koeln, Frankfurt, Aachen, Munich.....When German forces
bombed Warsaw, which the Poles had deliberately turned into a fortress, in 1939,
the German commander gave the civilians 24 hours to vacate the 
city before the commencement of bombing.  It was also Britain which declared
war on germany, and not vice versa.  get your facts straight. 
>   
>  I understand that at no stage in this or the last century
>  have Germany and Spain ever been at war and that the
>  Basques had never attacked any part of German sovereign 
>  soil.
>   
>  Corrections?

Tell me why volunteers from the US, France, Britain, Russia, etc., all
participated in the Spanish Civil War as armed combatants as well, and then
I will answer your question, if you still wish to pursue this subject.




From rblackmore@juno.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:49 PST 1996
Article: 83180 of alt.revisionism
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From: rblackmore@juno.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Clearing the air about Posen
Date: 30 Nov 1996 22:56:19 GMT
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In order to dispel the either accidental or intentional confusion 
surrounding one of my previous posts on Himmler's alleged 
speech at Posen, I would like to clarify:

I have never denied that Himmler delivered 2 speeches 
within 2 days apart at Posen in October 1943.  That the
speeches were interminably long seems to be the concensus
of all who attended and later commented upon the speeches.

What I am questioning and what I have always questioned is
the authenticity of the soound recording which was allegedly 
taken of the speech in question.  I have stated my reasons for
being skeptical of these recordings on many occasions and those
reasons are still valid as far as I am concerned.  The manner in which
these recordings are said to have been found is highly suspicious,
according to the way I see it.  They allegedly came from the files of
Alfred Rosenberg. Himmler's arch-rival, by a Jewish American investigator-
one of thousands who descended upon Germany at the end of the war.
There are, needless to say, many reasons why this tape should not have
been in Rosenberg's files.  This was not a public speech.  by Himmler's
own admission, what he had to say was allegedly highly confidential and
should never be "written"-or recorded for that matter.  

The recording was almost immediately sent to a Jewish agency in New York
upon discovery, before it was ever offered in evidence at Nuremberg.  There
is little doubt that the incriminating passages could have been the work of a
clever interpolator, and this would not be the first time such methods were
undertaken to help frame a case against Germans.  I expect the same
circu,spection and rigourous methods of validating this "document" as
authentic as Nizkor demands when documenting the authenticity of 
"revisionist" documents.  As my posts "Soviet Def Comedy Jam" have
effectively proven, the "case" against the nazis was often trumped up
out of thin air and packed with lies and ridiculous charges.  As of this
date,  upon examination, the 2 speeches given only 2 days apart are
quite different in style and delivery from each other, as well as not being
in agreement with Himmler's own handwritten notes, which he referred
to throughout the speech.

The remarks of Oswald Pohl and the reaction of other Generals and
officers who were present at the speech may be found ijn Pohl's
testimony in the "Green Series", IMT.  The remarks of one of the
General's may be found in Butz's book, under "Posen", along with the 
reference.  Now, assuming that this speech is quoted correctly, I
would like to say that these remarks certainly are no proof of a program
to murder all the Jews of Europe.  What is clear is that Himmler is speaking
about the partisan war, and the danger to German security by alleged 
Jewish rabble-rousers.  He alludes to the fact that in the war with the
partisans in the Soviet Union, children were shot with their parents.
It is also clear from reading Isaac Kowalski's book, "A Secret Nazi
Press in Europe", that children were often used by the partisans
themselves to carry bombs which often killed great numbers of German
soldiers.  To expect that these crimes would go unpunished is naive,
to say the least.  Apparently Himmler was of the opinion that the 
youngsters, already living and working with the partisans, would always
harbor hatred and resentment against the Germans for shooting their
parents, thus he justified his order to shoot all.  Though I disagree with
this personally, we can see by examining the pages of history at any
given era that the Nazis do not hold a patent on this sort of behavior.

The allies dropped tons of fire bombs on defenseless German cities in
order to kill and murder as many civilians as possible, yet had the audacity
to complain and whimper when German civilians lynched allied fliers who had
been responsible for murdering their families.  Those are the simple facts, and
what this all boils down to is the fact that war is barbaric, and that barbarity
is practiced by all.  The acts of the Jewish partisans were absolutely monstous,
and they left behind a legacy of murder and mutilation as well.  Hunndeds of
thousands of German men, women, and children continued to be murdered
in death camps set up by all the allies for years AFTER the war in Europe
had officially ended.  The Jews have no monopoly on suffering, though
their persecution was a tragedy as well, but a part of the greater tragedy as
a whole.  

It might be wise to remember that over 1.5 million Jews fought as armed
combatants for the various Allied forces during the war.  There were tens of 
thousands of Jewish partisans as well, and they were perhaps even more 
dangerous and homicidal than the Jews in uniform, as they abided by no
civilized rules of conduct, and neither did the men who fought them.  

Finally, as to the speech given by Himmler to the naval commanders, 
he was again referring to the partisan war and not gassings.  Also, the vicious
and murderous exhortations of Ilya Ehrenburg were every bit as grisly as 
any comment ever uttered by Himmler, perhaps even more so, as I have
proven in my many posts on the subject.  While Theodore Kaufmann had no
power to enforce his mad plans, his published madness led to the rigid policies
implemented by the Nazis against the  Jews at a later period.  Also, Henry
Morgenthau did later come very close to fulfilling at least part of Kaufmann's
mad plan through his close relationship as Roosevelt's most trusted advisor.
If certain individuals who are devoted to Nizkor would concentrate more on
an honest appraisal of facts rather than constantly attempting to whip up 
hysteria, perhaps these turbulent times in world history could be viewed in
a more objective light, and we could all get on with our lives.




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