The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/1996/beaulieu.0596


From jfbe@vir.com Wed May  1 17:46:28 PDT 1996
Article: 34114 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet
From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1)
Date: 1 May 1996 03:01:55 GMT
Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal.
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>
 

>>                                             I don't believe that
>>   this crematory operator feared for his life. This idea came to my mind a
>>   day but I quickly rejected it days after.

>He didn't, and I never said he did. I offered him anonymity because I
>didn't want to risk that he would be subjected to harrassing phone
>calls or, for that matter, questions from his boss about talking to me
>for an hour. Little did I suspect that it would lead to months of your
>filthy insinuations about my honesty.

>Small wonder that people in this newsgroup are so loath to admit their
>mistakes. Roll around in it for a few days. I'm sure your enjoying it.


  You say that you made a mistake. Which mistake. Is it this paragraph:

>   (http://www.almanac.bc.ca/features/qar/  Question 42

> 

For example, Legace is bound by Canadian law to use a coffin, and to > incinerate it so thoroughly that the ashes of the wood are > indistinguishable from the ashes of the human body. This is a lengthy > process. Legace forgets that such cosmetic concerns were not of > importance to the Nazis. and if so, could you explain us the circunstances suroounding it? I didn't want to come back on that (si, si...) but since you bring it back again, I'm curious...  From jfbe@vir.com Thu May 2 22:40:14 PDT 1996 Article: 34327 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.jumppoint.com!news3.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1) Date: 1 May 1996 03:50:51 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 10 Message-ID: <4m6n2r$h5u@Vir.com> References: <4l6tfl$q93@Vir.com> <3177a10a.7933696@news.pacificnet.net> <4lcg66$l64@Vir.com> <317a3ce9.3288194@news.pacificnet.net> <4lua6b$vua@Vir.com> <31835585.18413501@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4m6kg2$vfk@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne48.vir.com Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote: > 500 or 600 meter cube of cold air per oven ( 2,000 meter cube of hot air) > is not a fantastic figure for a ventilation system, 10 meter cube per hour, > imagine... _even_ without an air injection system, you had necessarelly Since I divided the '500 to 600 meter cube per hour' by 60 to get 10 meter cube, evidently I wanted to say 'minutes' rather than 'per hour'. From jfbe@vir.com Fri May 3 02:13:29 PDT 1996 Article: 34360 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1) Date: 1 May 1996 03:06:42 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 71 Message-ID: <4m6kg2$vfk@Vir.com> References: <4l6tfl$q93@Vir.com> <3177a10a.7933696@news.pacificnet.net> <4lcg66$l64@Vir.com> <317a3ce9.3288194@news.pacificnet.net> <4lua6b$vua@Vir.com> <31835585.18413501@news.srv.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne18.vir.com jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote: Now I've something new. Jeff sent me by mail Carlo Mattogno's book >> recently and I'll reproduce this paragraph: >> "Regarding the consumption of coke in the gasogene ovens, incomparably the >> most important fact to be found in the specialized German literature of >> the time, is the cremation experiment conducted by Engineer Richard >> Kessler, one of the top specialists on the cremation during the 20's and >> the 30's. This experiment occured 5 January 1927 in Gebruder Beck, Offenbach >> system oven, at the crematory of Dessau(1). The results of the experiment, >> displayed in 2 thermotechnical diagrams, for each of the 8 corpses cremated >> one after the other, were an average consumption of 29.5 kg of coke, >> plus the casket. These diagrams are of an exceptional importance in >> understanding the operation of a gasogene crematory oven. With the oven >> at thermal equilibrium (in a hypothesis of 20 consecutive cremations) >> the consumption of coke would have been reduced to 23 kg, plus the casket. >> A casket averaging 40 kg produced an actual quantity of heat equal to >> that produce by 15 kg of coke..." >I fear that in your excitement at this new discovery you have failed >to notice that *all* of Mattogno's data predate the development of the >Ludwig-Volckmann design which was the basis of both the Auschwitz >crematories and modern crematories as well. I suggest you read >Mattogno with as critical an eye as you do "the Jews." Mr Morris, the energetic consumption of a moder crematory is about 23 meter cube of natural gas, which is almost the equivalent of 30 kg of coke plus the coffin if I remember well (I did the calculus several weeks ago and I'm quoting from memory). This mean that there's no major difference with the 20's ovens, and I'm not so surprise: 500 or 600 meter cube of cold air per oven ( 2,000 meter cube of hot air) is not a fantastic figure for a ventilation system, 10 meter cube per hour, imagine... _even_ without an air injection system, you had necessarelly air which was coming in, oxygen was need. The possibility that it was half of it do not change drastically coke consumption as soon I'm checking those figures (today and in the 20's) they are not really different. >However that may be, I do not understand why you do not simply accept >the words not only of the crematory operator I spoke to, or of Jack >Springer of the National Cremation Association, or, for that matter, >the crematory operators you spoke to. They all say that the burning of >the corpse in an air injection oven results in a near thermal >equilibrium. Surely they would know the fuel consumption for their >ovens as well as did Walter Mueller of Allach when he made the same >claim while bidding for the Auschitz crematoria. Why this desperate >attempt to provide thermodynamic equations which it is plain even to >me you are not qualified to give? Why this uncritical acceptance of a >liar like Mattogno? I don't know how you can make such sentences. I didn't say that I refused the claim of Jack Springer simply because his claim are not in contradiction with what I said. He just said, according to your statement, that cremating without destroying all the body take less time. What's so fantastic? (you called it 'whitening the bones). The experiments that were done in the 20's demolish your pretentions, the energetic consumption in today's crematories demolish your claim, you make insinuations that you are more qualify than a guy who got a degree in physic engineering several years ago to discuss about theromdynamic equations and then you claim victory???? I'm not a Phd in that field, but I know enough to manage myself and get very good estimations. >The revisionists have lied to you M. Beaulieu. I think it would be a >much more interesting conversation to discuss why you believe them. I think it would be preferable for you to explain why you misquoted me. Post and email  From jfbe@vir.com Sat May 4 06:24:46 PDT 1996 Article: 34580 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.jumppoint.com!news3.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Van Alstine: a serial liar Date: 1 May 1996 03:11:43 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 102 Message-ID: <4m6kpf$vfk@Vir.com> References: <4lmlf3$9a5@Vir.com> <4lmulj$a7m@news.enter.net> <4lrrp7$78k@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne18.vir.com mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote: >> Body louse can be found in clothes generally, simply because hygienic >> conditions are not respect by some peoples. >Correction: "The body louse prefers to remain on the clothing of the host, >and feed on the body." No mention that this is so _simply_ due to hygenic >conditions. Rather, it seems quite obvious that this is a parasitic >adaptation. >> However, what this mean simply is that head louse do not >> go into clothes that are clean after the infestation of the hairs, >> it doesn't mean that the kind of lice that can be find in the non >> hygienic clothest never jump in the hairs neither. >Mr. Beaulieu, do you understand the concepts of "ecological niches" and >"adaptation?" It appears not.... I'm not a biologist M. Van Alstine. But you do not seems to explain me where one of my hypothesis may be wrong: with your article, what I did consider was simply that head louse do not search to move into the clothes, probably because this louse is preprogramm to search exclusivelly dense environnement, for reasons of security? hairs that give it a protection. Or perhaps there's a speciic smell. What seems obvious with your article is that head louse do not jump in the clothes, probably because this kind of louse do not recognize it as an appropriate niche, no dense hair. Or either those clothes are clean. I figure that the smell of a clean clothes is removing it from this potentiel niche. What I would like to know now is why hairs would remove (alienate? estrange) body louse. It's as safe as a niche then clothes. If someone's clothes are durty, we migh not expect this person's hairs to be clean. I don't see actually why body louse could not in some extent move into hairs. If you have a reason I'm interest to see why. oops! I've just reread your text: >Head lice prefer to live on the hair of the head although they have been >known to wander to other parts of the body. The body louse prefers to >remain on the clothing of the host, and feed on the body. A person >infested with hundreds of body lice may remove his clothes and not find a >single louse on his body. Sorry, it is written that head louse can also sometimes be found on the body, despite it is not the most frequent case. It is say also that the body louse 'prefer' to lives on the body, which is not the samething that 'lives exclusivelly'. Samething for the question of the person who remove his clothes, the paragraph contain a 'may', and the word body follow. This was just one of my arguments, the others were simply that the SS who were facing a huge typhus epidemy were not adopting fancy measures, they took no risk. You stated after that hairs were used for industrial purpose, however this do not mean that this use was a single one. Your paragraph was quite interesting, I'll quote now another one, from Pressac: 'Les crematoires d'Auschwitz', page 32: "Pour contrer ce danger, un Institut d'hygiene SS devait etre mont‚ … Raisko, ce qui fut fait en en octobre. Mais le typhus les surprit. Ils pensaient que les mesures prophylactiques (quarantaine et tonte des cheveux) et d'hygiene (desinfection locale des poils, douches) appliquees aux detenus a leur arrivee, eviterait l'introduction de ce fleau dans le camp par l'eradication du vecteur, le pou." "To fight the danger, an SS hygine institute had to be establish in Raisko, and this was done in October. But the thyphus surprrised them. They thought that prophylactic measures (quarantine and hair shaving) and hygienic measures (desinfection of body hair, showers) applied to inmates upon arrival could avoid the introduction of this plague in the camp by the eradication of the vector, louse". The reference that Pressac gives is ACM 502-4-2 to 502-4-47, sey of the 46 "Sterebucher", of KL Auschwitz. Everybody in the world know that document . Well, don't know were in those documents Pressac found that, sometimes Pressac let his imagination going away despite I don't see why an anti- revisionist would have invent such a reference to 'hygienic conditions' as the purpose for shaving. Your 'industrial purpose' is not incompatible with sanitary purposes if other document mention it. IMHO, it's not ridicoulous to think that the German disinfected the morgues because they redoubted lice from the body. And if it is not the body, it is the lice that was bring by the crematory operators. No beds to live in the crematoria? didn't you said that louse could live several days without a host? In that case also (lice bring by the crematory operators), the disinfection wasn't a stupid security measure. >Mr. Beaulieu, are you suggesting that shaving the heads of prisoners _did_ >make a difference in controlling the typhus epidemic at the camp? If so, >why then the necessity of a massive application of Zyklon B to "disinfect" >the camp? Why then, if head shaving was so effective was, typhus a >continuing problem at the camp? The truth, Mr. Beaulieu is that head Pressac state that typhus continue to kill simply because civilian who were not shave brought it into the camp. This time however, I'm not sure that it is his own interpretation or something that he read in the documents. I didn't say neither that shaving the head did make the difference, I said that in the mind of the Germans, it was one of the way to fight typhus among others. Post and email From jfbe@vir.com Sat May 4 06:24:47 PDT 1996 Article: 34582 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.jumppoint.com!news3.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1) Date: 1 May 1996 03:56:31 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 33 Message-ID: <4m6ndf$h5u@Vir.com> References: <4l6tfl$q93@Vir.com> <3177a10a.7933696@news.pacificnet.net> <4lcg66$l64@Vir.com> <317b461e.17990991@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4lpbms$8id@Vir.com> <4ltt78$eev@boris.eden.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne48.vir.com mcurtis@eden.com (Mike Curtis) wrote: > y there was so much testimony to bodies > lying around out in the open sometimes in oozing piles. SS testified > and several crematoria were found. This discussion verges on the And whn did I deny that crematory did exist in Auschwitz-Birkenau? They were built there to fight typhus. The fact that SS testified do not change the basical laws that exist in nature. SS testified gas chambers in Germany, there was also prooven case of torture, intimidation, so what's the relevant point? > ridiculous when two people argue over the time it took in relation to > MODERN methods. Today we are not rushed to burn 1000s of bodies a day. > We use different methods of preparation and disposal. It's been 50 > years plus now and what the Nazis did at the various death camps has > no relation to the urgency we have today in the normal course of > business. Those were exceptional times and they made do with > exceptional and non-typical machines built purposely to burn up more > than one body at a time. This FACT is in the records and testimony and > orders. That's my 2 cents worth as it pertains to this stupid > ridiculous back and forth. No the FACTS are given by the variables that influence cremation time (surface exposure, temperature and oxygen intake). Birkenau ovens were NOT built to burn more than one body at a time accounting for their dimension, you are just making a sery of unreference and unproven statements. > From jfbe@vir.com Sat May 4 12:06:44 PDT 1996 Article: 34693 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!ra.nrl.navy.mil!news.math.psu.edu!news.iag.net!news.worldpath.net!news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Burning pits Date: 28 Apr 1996 03:43:25 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 9 Message-ID: <4lupgt$lnp@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne39.vir.com By the way Mr Van Alstine, before to continue, I would like to know what was exactly your reference about those burning pits were the germans were suppose to burn bodies and collect fat, especially the one where it is say that the Germans dig up larger trench just for the sake of fat collection. I'll go to the library Sunday and Monday and I'd like to take a look at that stuff, if it is not asking you too much. Post and email From jfbe@vir.com Thu May 9 07:13:24 PDT 1996 Article: 35415 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!trellis.wwnet.com!news.bconnex.net!clicnet!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!news.interlink.net!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1) Date: 6 May 1996 02:05:07 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 41 Message-ID: <4mjmoj$sqg@Vir.com> References: <4l6tfl$q93@Vir.com> <3177a10a.7933696@news.pacificnet.net> <4lcg66$l64@Vir.com> <317a3ce9.3288194@news.pacificnet.net> <4lua6b$vua@Vir.com> <31835585.18413501@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4m6kg2$vfk@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne8.vir.com mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote: >What I don't get then is where the casket comes in to the equation, as you >have assigned it a heat energy equivalent of 15 kg of coke. Shouldn't >adding in the casket _reduce_ the coke requirement (which is _already_ the >equivalent of the natural gas requirement) ? Say to around 15 kg? Yes, it reduce the coke requirement despite I don't think it reduce it by a one fatcor (example 100 kj save for 100 kj produce) >This mean that there's no major difference with the 20's ovens, and I'm not >so surprise... >>Well, I am! According to you, Mr. Beaulieu, Mattogno cites Kessler's >>experiment with the Offenbach furnace as taking 29.5 kg of coke _plus_ the >>casket. Again, using your claim that a casket is equivalent to 15 kg. of >>coke, that would make for about 45 kg of coke. This would be 5/3 the fuel >>energy you claim a modern-day furnace uses. If I remember well the text that I reproduced was giving 23 kg of coke for several cremation (an average) with thermal equilibrium and 30 kg of coke for the average on 8 cremations. I figure that what Mattogno found in the text gave the coke consumption for the first cremation and a reduce one for the others and he apllied those figures to get is figure for twenty consecutives cremations. And your interpretation about my statements is wrong: I said that in a modern oven, with a gasket, it take 23 meter cube of natural gas. In Mattogno's text, he state '29.5 kg of coke plus the gasket', and he state also that in an oven without a gasket (15 kg of coke) it would have take 45 kg of coke. I interpret that as: the bodies were cremated into a gasket and it took 30 kg of coke for 8, or either that they were cremated without a gasket and Mattogno gave the rough figures after he did the substrac- tion himself. >Obviously, I have either misunderstood your description, or your Reread the text, you'll see. If not, I'll see if there's something more to add later (from the book). From jfbe@vir.com Sat May 11 07:56:44 PDT 1996 Article: 36091 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1) Date: 4 May 1996 13:37:46 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 72 Message-ID: <4mfmja$hif@Vir.com> References: <4l6tfl$q93@Vir.com> <4lpbms$8id@Vir.com> <4ltt78$eev@boris.eden.com> <4m6ndf$h5u@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne8.vir.com dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > > Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes: > > # And whn did I deny that crematory did exist in Auschwitz-Birkenau? > # They were built there to fight typhus. > > I claim that this is a lie. If I'm wrong, then please present > a document that states that the Kremas were built "to fight typhus". > I've receive yesterday an email from Matt Giwer about that where he talked about a confusion with malaria. I choosed to wait the public appearance of his message to respond but his message is still not there. When I wrote that I wanted to say: to dispose the body of peoples who died from typhus, but I think simply that I had still in the mind the question of the morgue desinfection when I wrote 'on line' this 4 th reply of my evening to Mike Curtis. I though first that it was prefereable to correct it the morning after but really I didn't imagine that so much peoples were reading my postings so I drop it. Now you know: I simply made an error. > This assumption is utterly absurd. The number of the Kremas and > the cremation furnaces is so huge relative to the population > of the camp, that this explanation makes no sense. > > Suppose that they had cremation furnaces that could only burn > 10 corpses a day (and a much higher figure was possible). Then, > you have 52*10*30 = 15,600 corpses per month. This, for a camp > with a few tens-of-thousands of inmates. > > Had the only goal of the SS been to reduce death from typhus, > they would: > > 1) Stop sending people to Auschwitz. It's that simple. You have > a place with raging typhus epidemics, you stop sending people > there. It's really something even a "revisionist" can hopefully > grasp. Faurisson talked about a criminal bureaucratic delay, despite it's possible they continued to send people just to replace thhe workers who died. But your point is not obvious: there's documents and letters from the Germans which talk about the campain against typhus, how can you deny that it was their goal? ooops! you said 'their _only_ goal, but I still don't see your point. Wether they continue to send peoples there because of a bureaucratic error or because they wanted to replace the workers who died. For your little calculus, it is hard to believe that the Germans didn't account for natural delays, breakdown or anything else when they built the crematories. If not, I can take the same datas and claim that they planned to liquidate hundreds of thousans of inmates in Dachau with gas chambers since Dachau's oven were 6 time less important in number, but that the inmate population was also less important in the same extent > 2) Put all this huge effort into stopping the typhus, not into > building all these Kremas. > Both are not exclusives. > > -Danny Keren. > > > -- > Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. > > -Lu Xun. From jfbe@vir.com Wed May 22 23:48:31 PDT 1996 Article: 38436 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!bofh.dot!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!lexis-nexis!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Himmler Speaks in Posen, I Date: 20 May 1996 01:13:38 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4noh02$q5i@Vir.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne26.vir.com dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: > > Speechs by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler before senior SS officers in Poznan, > October 4 and 6, 1943 > [Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - > Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. XIII, p. 323, and > Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS - P. Padfield, Henry Holt and Co, NY, 1990, > p. 469] > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I mean the evacuation of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish > race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about, "the Jewish > You just remind me that I was suppose to debate of that with McCarthy a while ago but he postponed it because he was busy and I didn't try to insist after our first exchange. If he's ready I could start on this this week. Ready Jamie? From jfbe@vir.com Sat May 25 07:26:36 PDT 1996 Article: 39156 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Auschwitz: A revisionist FAQ (1) Date: 23 May 1996 23:44:35 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 308 Message-ID: <4o2t93$jme@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne21.vir.com I've to work on the second part during the weekend, but here's the first one: Thanks to Alexander Baron, who revided the text (my english is not perfect) and gave me several suggestions for this FAQ and the 2 pages that follow. CREMATORIA The first section of this FAQ deals with crematoria in Birkenau. The Revisionist claim is usually supported by the affirmations of Ivan Legace, a crematory operator from Calgary who has been subjected to smear attacks >from the Holocaust lobby in alt.revisionism. I hadn't really the time to involve myself on this topic, I'm working 40 hours a week, and I've no connection with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which can raise billions of dollars for the construction of Holocaust Museums. However, I never heard about any crematory operator who was produced in a court case by the Ho- locaust lobby to support the claim that 4 bodies can be reduced to ashes in 30 or 45 minutes in a crematory oven. My first knowledge of the topic was limited, than I got an interview with M. Marc Poirier (Funeral House Magnus Poirier, Montreal) and a phone interview with a chemist who is main- taining several crematoria in Quebec. Later, I got several phone interviews: with M. Denis, from 'Incineration Plus' (Montreal); S. Ouellet (Urgel Bour- gie Funeral House, Montreal); J. Choiniere, Crematorium d'Arche (Longueuil); a man from 'le Cimetiere du Bas du Fleuve'; M. Cloutier, from Le Cremato- rium Mont-Royal. The first thing that must be said is that Auschwitz crematoria were operating at 800 degrees Celcius approximately, according to the annex of an anti-Revisionist book, "Les chambres a gaz ont exist‚", by G. Wellers. An annex to the book shows the source: report of the Polish War Crime In- vestigation Commission and Jan Sehn. This communist commission claimed right after the war that the Nazis were able to cremate 3 or 4 people in 20 or 30 minutes per oven at a temperature of about 800 degrees. Cremato- ries were not operating at 1,200 to 1,600 degrees like today's crematoria in those days; they were less technologically developed. The first thing that must be said is that nowhere was I told that the cremation took less than about 2 hours for a normal body. The range was between two hours to two and a half hours. To that one must add a pre- hea ting period of 30 minutes for the first cremation of the day. A Cana- dian law states that the after-burner region must have a temperature above 1000 degrees Celsius before beginning the cremation. The after-burner is a part of the structure where a little wall slows down the evacuation of the combustion products and where a flame is applied to those ones. The purpose is simply to burn the remains of the primary combustion and avoid the ex- pulsion of pollutants into the atmosphere. In the case of the Auschwitz ovens, we are told that the period of operation was limited in the time: the Krema 1 at Auschwitz 1 (six ovens) was just sufficient to dispose the bodies of the inmates who died from or- dinary causes (typhus, other diseases) and the main crematoria of Birkenau started to work only after February 1943. It was also documented by the anti-Revisionist write Jean-Claude Pressac that those crematoria were sub- jected to several breakdowns, especially Kremas 4 and 5 but also the other two. One of the two latest was shut down finally in the same year but even the other one stopped operating for several weeks in miscellaneous situa- tions. The Auschwitz camp was evacuated in January 1945. Normally a crema- tory must be cleaned up and is not operating 24 hours a day. Nevertheless, the claim nowadays is that about a million people died in Auschwitz-Birkenau and that most of them were cremated there. According to the latest version of the Nizkor FAQ: more than 700,000 in Kremas 2 and 3. These had 15 ovens each, the crematorium buildings 4 and 5 had 8 ovens each. All of that in less than 18 months, with several breakdowns. My inquiry gave me the possibility to learn also the average quantity of air that is evacuated from a crematory in Quebec: about 625 cubic feet per minute, or 1400 cubic metres per hour. In the case of the Auschwitz ovens, the figure that can be derived from the data present in "Anatomy Of A Death Camp" is about 2,000 cubic metres per oven. In that case, we have a figure of 33% less air that is applied to the corpse in a crematory here, but also a figure for a temperature that is 75% higher. The claim that a body could be cremated in 30 minutes is difficult to support with physical evidence here. Multiple corpses in an oven: The Auschwitz ovens dimensions were about 1 metre in diameter, and se- veral corpses were allegedly incinerated at a time to increase their effi- ciency. Everywhere I was told that the cremation of a body is directly re- lated to the volume which is occupied. A normal corpse takes between two hours to two and a half hours to be cremated, an extremely obese corpse much more time, and the lower limit that the chemist and those crematory opera- tors knew was about an hour and a quarter. In some other countries, the cremation time seems to be faster (there are few variables on which one can play) since some Revisionists have already given figures like 1 hour 30 minutes for a normal body. In that case, the oxygen intake is probably hi- gher. The ratio surface/volume to burn is also one of the factor that in- fluences the faster cremation. The combustion of the corpse is just the oxidation of its molecules with the oxygen that is brought into the muffle. An analogy could be drawn with the combustion of a log: cutting it into thin slices will reduce the combustion time. In the case of the Birkenau ovens, packing the muffles would result in a drastic drop in the air intakes. The heads and shoulders of the corpses would stop the path of air molecules and fewer could reach the most important part of the body that is offering a large surface: the trunk. A good analogy is that of a window you open lightly to let air in. Since there's little space available, several corpses piled up in the muffle would not allow a maximisation of the surface that it offers to oxygen: abdomens would be in contact with backs, etc...Cremation specialists often use the equivalent in pounds to estimate the cremation time, they use datas like 'a 150 pounds body' or a '250 pounds body', etc... Nizkor claim that emaciated corpses wouldn't take as much time to cremate, and this is true, however they ignore the fact that most of the Jews allegedly gassed were supposelly killed upon arrival. Photos of new inmates who arrived at Auschwitz do exist (1) and these, contrarily to the Jews who were victims of typhus and shortage over months in camps at the end of the war have nothing in common with famished-looking persons. It is 90 % of the persons allegedly cremated in the Holocaust story. There is also an attempt to use the argument that most of the victims were children, but this is plainly wrong: a simple study that uses the lists that are provided by the Holocaust lobby itself (eg Danuta Czech in "Auschwitz Chronicle") shows that the children among the victims could not account for more than 20%. The best way to cremate a million Jews was simply to built more cremato- ria. The author Arthur Butz gave a wonderful parallel several years ago that must be summarise (2): There are two tables which are available for the crematory ovens. Most of the deaths in Germany's camps occurred at the end of the war when the chaotic con- ditions of the defeat created large scale shortages and boosted the mortality rate, according to mortality statistics that the SS were using for those camps (the documentation related to the official mortality rate, registration books and so on were seized by the Allies). On the other hand, most of the deaths in Auschwitz occurred during the summer of 1942-1943 with typhus epidemics. It is said usually, even on the Nizkor site, that the majority of Jews who were de- ported to Auschwitz were not registered, and vanished without trace because the Germans didn't record their names in their files, they gassed them on arrival. Only the Jews who died from ordinary death were registered in the death book. Jews who were sent to other camps were not tattooed. At the end of 1942 a campaign was launched by Himmler to fight typhus and, as he stated in a letter, to reduce the mortality rate at 'any cost' (3). On January 20, 1943 Gluecks, inspector of the camps, in a circular addressed to all the Commandants of Nazi camps, ordered them to fight the too high mortali- ty rate 'with all the available means'. Other documents (4) attest of this exchange between Pohl, Himmler and Glucks on that topic and one could also find a more accesible source about this campaign by reading Reitlinger, _The Final Solution_, First edition, page 127. On September 30, 1943 Pohl was able to report progress in a letter to Himmler. What is interesting is that he provides the statistics about mortali- ty rates in miscellaneous camps: from July 1942 to February 1943 the mortality rate was about 8% while it dropped to 2.8% in June 1943. An interesting aspect is the August month: August 1943 population death % Dachau 17,300 40 0.23 Sachsenhausen 26,500 194 0.73 Buchenwald 17,600 118 0.67 Mauthausen 21,100 290 1.37 Auschwitz 74,000 2380 3.1 etc.... Again, exterminated Jews in gas chambers are not included in this internal correspondence. If we look at mortality rates due to natural causes we can see that the number of ovens is almost comparable with camps where there is no ex- termination claim. In 1942, crematoria were constructed in Dachau and Sachen- hausen: each had 4 ovens. At Dachau there were 2 ovens before 1942 (samething for Sachsenhausen). At Buchenwald there were six. In Auschwitz the number of ovens was between 30 and 46, depending on the period. The number of inmates grew to 100,000 at the end of 1943. But there's another way: Dachau and Buchenwald wee in Germany and as 'non- extermination' camps, they can be used for the comparison if we want to see the intention of the Germans when they launched the construction of crematoria rather than when they were functional and compare it with the death rate there. In the previous case, Auschwitz seems a bit better equipped with crematoria than the other camps if we take into account the mortality rate, but if we look back at the moment when the decision to build crematoria was taken, here we get even a lower proportion of crematoria/death record for Auschwitz than for camps in Germany, sometimes by a factor of two. If we just take the year 1942, 45,575 inmates died in Auschwitz and 2,470 in Dachau (5). But it is at this moment that the SS launched the construction of most of the crematoria, so we can have a clear idea of what they had in the mind: Auschwitz was half as well equipped with crematoria as Dachau, according to normal death figures, probably for budgetary constraints. The main reasons for the high death rates in Birkenau were the typhus epi- demics of 1942-1943 for which Germans lost the control and also the fact that many sick inmates were shipped to Birkenau, according to documents (it was, indeed a death camp). Permanent use? I will add an observation here: if we are told that the crematories were operating 24 hours a day, than we will need to substract 4 days from that. The worst period of the extermination process, according to the legend, is the summer of 1944, when 300,000 to 400,000 Hungarian Jews were allegedly liquidated and cremated in Auschwitz in two months (6). The story is that thousands of bodies were burned in open pits since even the 'fantastic' cre- matoria of Auschwitz were not able to dispose of 5,000 to 10,000 bodies a day. And in that story, the crematoria were working 24 hours a day over this period also. It was normal for the U.S. Air force to take photos of a target before and after the bombardment. Before, to evaluate the defense, after, to evaluate the damaged. The I.G. Farben industrial complex of Auschwitz-Monowitz was bombed at the end of the summer, and 4 photos, taken by U.S. airplanes, give a picture of Birkenau during this critical period: The May 31, 1944, the June 26, 1944, the August 25, 1944 and the September 13, 1944. In none of the pho- tos can one see any trace of thousands of bodies burned in open pits. Morever, on the 4 photos, there is no smoke released by the crematoria chimneys! (7). Nizkor do not use those air photos, but rather a classical one: > in massive pits. Two gruesome photographs of these "burning pits", taken > in secrecy in Auschwitz-Birkenau, have survived. They are of reasonable > quality, and show men standing by a pile of naked bodies, with the smoking > pit in front of them. Some bodies are being dragged into the pit. The pho- > tographs are reproduced by Pressac. This photo was allegedly taken in Birkenau, but it could have been taken anywhere else in Europe; no detail on the photo allows the reader to know where it was taken. The fuel: The average quantity of fuel that is necessary to burn a body in a crema- torium today is about 23 cubic metres of natural gas, or the equivalent of 30 to 35 kg of coke if we convert with calorimetric data. In the 20s, things were not different, and since the author J.C. Pressac reproduces the documents that deal with coke deliveries to Auschwitz-Birkenau ( A.T.O., 1989 ), it is possible to estimate approximately the number of people who were cremated there. 2,200 tons of coke, or the equivalent of 70,000 to 100,000 persons if we account for a proportion of 20% children. The coke shipments to Birkenau give a figure that matches almost perfectly the death registers of the camp. The documents: There are very few documents that are normally adduced to 'prove' that Birke- nau's crematoria were able to dispose of so many people, most of the 'proofs' are based on post-war eyewitness testimonies. However, it is not bad to look at the 2 main ones: The Jahring document (28 June, 1943) says that the 52 muffles of Auschwitz- Birkenau were able to reduce to ashes 4,756 corpses per day with a 24 hour a day operation. The date of the document matches the period when several major breakdowns were affecting Birkenau's crematoria (the SS were trying desperately to repair it at that time, as Pressac documented). The origin of the document is the 'Committee of the Anti-fascist Resistance of the German Democratic Repu- blic. There was no reason for the SS to claim such an output at the moment that they had so many difficulties with those crematoria: this document is a forgery. Morever, in another document reproduce on page 224 the crematoria operated only 12 hours a day. Another document that is used on the anti-Revisionist side: 'Fritz Sander and Paul Erdmann, Prufer's superiors at Topf, estimated an output of 30 to 36 bodies in 10 hours [...]' (8). The reference is Weimar, LK 6451, letter Topf July 14, 1941. According to the rest of the text, the best I could understand is that this was a double muffle furnace. In Pressac's book there are several references to contract invoices, and not only for Auschwitz: it seems that Pressac had access to a huge amount of letters and documentation that were written over 10 years, the number of quotations about the crematoria is impressive. I would not be surprised if he met several references to lower cremation output in those let- ters. Nevertheless, the documents that are usually used to 'prove' those crematoria output are rare: 2 or 3. It is possible that this letter exaggerates the outputs a bit for 'selling purposes'. It is said too that the first cremation was car- ried on only on August 15, 1941 with that furnace. This means simply that this claim in the letter, probably, was not based on something that was observed but on an hypothetically optimistic estimate. In short, it is worthless. Notes And References (1) The Auschwitz Album (2) "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century", by Arthur Butz, 360 pages, published by the Institute for Historical Review, P.O. Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 U.S.A. (3) (document 2172-PS, Reitlinger, "The Final Solution", First edition, page 127). (4) (1469-PS, NMT, Volume V, page 372) (5) Butz, page 378 (6) "Debunking the Genocide Myth: A Study of the Nazi Concentration Camps and the Alleged Extermination of European Jewry", Introduction by Pierre Hofstet- ter, Translated from the French by Adam Robbins, published by the Institute for Historical Review, (1978), page 246. (7) "Air Photo Evidence", John Ball, Samizdat Publishers, 206 Carlton Street Toronto, Canada M5A-2L1. [Around 10$ US plus ship- ment, (416) 922-9850]. (8) (Anatomy of a Death Camp, page 189).  From jfbe@vir.com Sat May 25 07:26:38 PDT 1996 Article: 39157 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: NIZKOR: Will they, will they not... Date: 23 May 1996 23:47:07 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 98 Message-ID: <4o2tdr$jme@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne21.vir.com Nizkor: will they... will they not.... My twin brother told to John Morris that he will never come back on that and stop his harrasment. since he never lie, he asked me to take up the question now.... ************************************************************** (http://www.almanac.bc.ca/features/qar/ Question 42

For example, Legace is bound by Canadian law to use a coffin, and to incinerate it so thoroughly that the ashes of the wood are indistinguishable from the ashes of the human body. This is a lengthy process. Legace forgets that such cosmetic concerns were not of importance to the Nazis. ************************************************************** Do you remember, a while ago, how much corpses were burning fast and how the coffin was a major problem? Technology seems to have make a big jump over the last months: lets take just this 4/22/96 posting where John Morris told to my twin: ======== Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AUSCHWITZ: Revisionnist FAQ (1) From: jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:13:33 GMT >> >> For the case of John Morris first, I will remind you that for the crematory >> operator to whom he 'promissed to not reveal his name', Morris was never >> able to back his claim that the destruction of the coffin could take the >> largest part of the cremation. >That is what the gentleman told me, or, at least, what I recorded in >my notes about our conversation. As for not revealing his name, that >was my suggestion as I felt I owed it to the man not to make him the >subject of harrassment by deniers simply because he was kind enough to >speak to me. >Yes. And subsequent to my conversation with Mr. Springer, and on your >prompting, I have suggested a revision to this answer to reflect more >accurately the actual cosmetic and legal concerns faced by crematgory >operators, since that part of the answer is based upon information >from me. >But the main point that it makes is still valid: modern funerary >crematoria are bound by many considerations that delay cremation time, >considerations which did not apply in extermination camps. >In any case, I have admitted my error, and I would be grateful if you >would stop calling me a liar. Well, since Mr Morris persisted to say that his crematory operator told him that the main problem in modern cremation was the burning of the coffin and since few dozens line below he said that he 'admitted his error', one could ask himself if the coffin was taking the largest part of the cremation time or not. However, the main thing is that this canadian law never existed neither. My twin brother told me that every where he asked about this question he was told that there was no problem with the coffin ashes. He even said that he asked several time to J. Morris to give the text of the law and got no answer. It seems that we are getting older, and older, and that Nizkor hadn't yet correct this 'error' after Mr Morris suggestion a while ago. I don't know how many thousands persons visit Nizkor each month compare to the 100 or 200 permanent 'staff' of alt.revisionism, but lets put some pressure now... In this case, we expect a replacement of this error with a solid reference from a crematory designer (Springate) who claim that in case of epidemy, a quick way to dispose the bodies in sery would be to partially burn them only and that could take an hour. Well, the problems are multiple here: since carbonized flesh is not completelly burn, we have to ask ourself why we never eared in the post war eye witness account anything related to such a thing. The bodies were supposed to be reduce in ashes. not in a mix of (not well) friable bones with carbonized flesh paste on it. And if this method was adopt, then we have to ask ourself why the Nazis were not using an alternative method that can't reduce the body completelly (burning with gazoline and wood) since they were not dependant of costing equipments related to cremato- ries, nor any breakdown that have slow down the extermination process... Without taking in account that the Nazis hadn't to collect the ashes of the Jews, one of the purpose of a crematory incineration. If we are told that the complete cremation involve not only the disperi- tion of the flesh but also an esthetical concern (the 'whitening of the bones) than I could say that in 'Les crematoires d'Auschwitz' (J.C.Pressac) the photo of an oven in Buchenwald at the liberation show very white bones with few ashes apart. In 1945, when there was critical shortage of fuel. But anyway, the best I know, bones are always almost white.  From jfbe@vir.com Mon May 27 12:17:55 PDT 1996 Article: 39508 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!clicnet!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Seeking the first time Date: 25 May 1996 11:37:16 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <4o6rdc$fv0@Vir.com> References: <31a461b3.259026@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne14.vir.com tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > > The Holocaust story has been modified extensively over the years > with many places, methods and numbers being deleted from the story > accounts. > The current popular figure for the number of Jews said to have > been exterminated is 6,000,000. Six million. > Does anyone know, when was the first time this 6,000,000 figure > was announced? > The earliest date that it was published? In Butz book, it is around march 1943 I think, I can verify later, perhaps even January 1943. It was say by the Zionist leaders in USA that '2 million Jews were killed' and '4 million others are planned to be killed', and that there was an emergency to open Palestine to jewish immigration to 'save' the Jews. The mythological figure was announce 2 years before the end of the war in the N.Y. Times From jfbe@vir.com Mon May 27 15:50:50 PDT 1996 Article: 39613 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates Date: 25 May 1996 00:07:35 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 50 Message-ID: <4o5j07$7d4@Vir.com> References: <31a31629.4253996@news.pacificnet.net> <31a4e4d1.1452436@news.pacificnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne10.vir.com tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote: > > Moran wrote: > "Even though modern day cremation facilities take two and half > hours to cremate one body, the cremation ovens at Auschwitz, barely > the size of a regrigerator, could cremate up to three bodies in twenty > minutes, as the Holocaust story has it." > > > Professor Keren then replied: > "The opinion of cremation experts was posted here, that, if you're > only interested in disposing of the corpse, without having to worry > about the appearance of the remains, much less than 2.5 hours are > needed." > > > The professor makes much use of terms like "much less" in lieu of > more definitive quantities. Whatever the professor says, we're still > talking three bodies in twenty minutes instead of 2 1/2 hours for one > in modern day cremation facilities. As the Holocaust story has it, the > bodies had to be burned enough to be subject to pulverization and > totally free of any signs of what it was so the little kids could > spread it around the walk ways of Auschwitz to keep people from > slipping. > > Does the professor have confidence in his own stuff? Evidentally > not since he had to rail a bit. > > >The professor: > > >But we all know you're a pathological liar. You cannot post about > >anything whatsoever without lying. That's also why you forged > >testimony of witnesses to the Holocaust, by including text they > >have never spoken. > > > >You must be very popular with the other Nazis. They must really > >admire a liar and forger of your caliber. > > > Now does that seem like it's coming from a person who has faith > in his post? And he's a professor no less. > > > >-Danny Keren. > > > >-- > >Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. > > > >-Lu Xun. > From jfbe@vir.com Mon May 27 17:44:22 PDT 1996 Article: 39700 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.bconnex.net!clicnet!news.clic.net!mixnews2!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Himmler Speaks in Posen, I Date: 25 May 1996 12:08:45 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4o6t8d$fv0@Vir.com> References: <4noh02$q5i@Vir.com> <31a32c9b.5014740@news.srv.ualberta.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne14.vir.com jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote: > > On 20 May 1996 01:13:38 GMT, Jean-Francois Beaulieu > wrote: > > [re: Himmler's Posen speech] > > > You just remind me that I was suppose to debate of that with > > McCarthy a while ago but he postponed it because he was busy and > > I didn't try to insist after our first exchange. If he's ready > > I could start on this this week. Ready Jamie? > > Oh, was their something about the word "killing" that you didn't quite > grasp? > Yes. From jfbe@vir.com Tue May 28 13:57:06 PDT 1996 Article: 39827 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust without Gas Chambers Date: 27 May 1996 02:55:11 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 96 Message-ID: <4ob5if$3e8@Vir.com> References: <25MAY199615301685@cmi.arizona.edu> <4oa5kj$fce@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne79.vir.com ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote: > >Let's just suppose there were no gas chambers. What would change? The >fact that the Germans had a systematic plan for expelling all Jews from >Europe? No. The fact that the Germans escalated that policy to one of sex >segregated work camps where (according to Goebbels' Diary) at least 60% >were expected to die from "natural"causes? No. Read the Wannsee minutes. >The fact that perhaps hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed under the >aegis of the Commissar Order, because, since some Jews were Communists, >the Nazis assumed that ALL Jews were communists, and therefore fell under >the Commissar Order rubric? No. Up to now, I have serious doubts about Goebbel's Diary but no certanty. For the Wannsee minutes, it is a typewritten document which is not signed so I consider it as a forged document. I have several reasons but the best I could see, some revisionnist consider it as genuine just because the bulk of it speak about an evacuation policy. However, this famous paragraph at the end is not a coincidence to me. It was impossible to forged hundreds of thousands of letters, documents but relativelly easy to forge less documents that could give a 'key' to decrypt all the others. In that case, the presence of a paragraph that refer to the elimination of Jews in a 'mix-terminology' document is not surprising to me. [snip] >Gas Chambers have nothing to do with German reparations, the State of >Israel, or any other aspect of the current political reality. Gas >Chambers have nothing to do with Zionism, or a Jewish conspiracy. >Consider: The Holocaust Museum tested several bars of soap to see if they >were human. They were not. But the fact is that they tested them. Why? >Because they thought that they might be! What does that tell you? It >tells you that Jews, too, can be the victims of propaganda, and can >agonize and torture themselves for decades. > >Gas Chambers are not good for anybody, and are largely irrelevant. This >issue will be settled when that is realized. There you are wrong. The real issue is not the gas chambers, indeed, but the existence or not of an extermination policy. However, if there was no gas chambers, than there was no extermination policy. Without those gas chambers, the Jews who were deported in Auschwitz, Treblinka and who were not registered could just have vanish in the Eastern territories as the German document described. My common sense tell me that if the Nazis had liquidate those Jews in the Eastern territories in a systematic way then the allied and especially the Russians would have accused the Nazis of this crime for all the missing Jews rather than to have take the huge risk to create this fishy story with gas chambers. There was no extermination policy, and this make a big difference. If you differ in your opinion on that point, than I can't do anything for you. I will not cry like you for the Jews who died during the war. Not because I'm happy of that, but because we could fill oceans with the tears that have been yet shed. Jews were not the only one who suffered. 40 millions persons died and the 2,5% of the casualties that I believe has nothing to do with the main element of the war. What is extraordinary is the political exploitation of the myths. So without gas chambers there's no difference? This is probably what the pigs who support censorship will say when the myth will be overthrown. No difference? why then is there jail sentence in Germany and other coun- tries for the revisionnist? why so much intimidation, murder attempt, careers broken, lobbying? Because the majority of the revisionnist are far-rightist? It his the historical opinion on this matter that is submit to censorship, not just the favorable opinions to a dictatorship. I've rarely attack Jews here, but you can be sure that I won't cry an apologize for my revisionist opinion in my case. For me, Jews are not exceptionnal. They have the same blood than me. I do not consider each Jew as an incarnation of the devil, nor the state of Israel despite I dislike its policy. The Holocaustmania is certanly however one of the major factor of deca- dence in their culture. I know perfectly that the bulk of the Jews believes sincerelly all the aspects of the Holocaust. Doesn't mean that several of them will not use it when it is convenient. I do suppose that they consider themself as right to do so, because of their education, because a large amount of persons do it around them. I can understand that several Jews lied about their ennemies who persecuted them, who humiliated them. This is not extraordinary. What is huge however is the way that Wiesenthal and his goons, the ADL and some other organisations have lie systematically in an organized way. Too much longer. I think that a part of the Jews consider that the bulk of the Germans are not responsible for the Holocaust while several other do consider that. Don't know the proportion, perhaps half and half. I do consider that it's hard to reject the blame over all the peoples when the hoax will be overthrown. But don't tell me that 'this make no difference', and that I have attend to a funny small hoax that has little impact on our life. This is why revisionnism is fascinating to me: I can check any newsgroup over hundreds and the Holocaust will be one of the topic over the year. If you consider the chairmans of the ADL can lie in your face over decades, sodomize you and tell you that you are guilty of everything and use this guilt feeling to support their political agenda and the US foreign policy, if you enjoy it, that's your problem.  From jfbe@vir.com Tue May 28 13:57:07 PDT 1996 Article: 39828 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: No righteous indignation here Date: 27 May 1996 01:48:43 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4ob1lr$tpb@Vir.com> References: <832979136snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne13.vir.com Alexander Baron wrote: > > > On May 12 the Sunday Times carried a story about a Russian politician named > Gennady Zyuganov. He appears to be something of a Holocaust Revisionist. He > claims that Stalin murdered (only!) half a million, and has found the proof > in the archives. No protests have yet been recorded from Harry Mazal, Dan > Keren or the Simon Wiesenthal Center. No outrages, no demonstrations, no > "educational" books are planned to refute this monstrous calumny. Any ideas > why not Mr Moran? Giwer? Doubting Thomas? Doubting Thomas? Good, I asked myself once for the first 3 letters. And the vd? Doubting very doubting? From jfbe@vir.com Tue May 28 13:57:08 PDT 1996 Article: 39829 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Holocaust without Gas Chambers Date: 27 May 1996 01:40:44 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 97 Message-ID: <4ob16s$tpb@Vir.com> References: <25MAY199615301685@cmi.arizona.edu> <4oa5kj$fce@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne13.vir.com ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote: > > into gas chambers. > >Let's just suppose there were no gas chambers. What would change? The >fact that the Germans had a systematic plan for expelling all Jews from >Europe? No. The fact that the Germans escalated that policy to one of sex >segregated work camps where (according to Goebbels' Diary) at least 60% >were expected to die from "natural"causes? No. Read the Wannsee minutes. >The fact that perhaps hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed under the >aegis of the Commissar Order, because, since some Jews were Communists, >the Nazis assumed that ALL Jews were communists, and therefore fell under >the Commissar Order rubric? No. Up to now, I have serious doubts about Goebbel's Diary but no certanty. For the Wannsee minutes, it is a typewritten document which is not signed so I consider it as a forged document. I have several reasons but the best I could see, some revisionnist consider it as genuine just because the bulk of it speak about an evacuation policy. However, this famous paragraph at the end is not a coincidence to me. It was impossible to forged hundreds of thousands of letters, documents but relativelly easy to forge less documents that could give a 'key' to decrypt all the others. In that case, the presence of a paragraph that refer to the elimination of Jews in a 'mix-terminology' document is not surprising to me. [snip] >Gas Chambers have nothing to do with German reparations, the State of >Israel, or any other aspect of the current political reality. Gas >Chambers have nothing to do with Zionism, or a Jewish conspiracy. >Consider: The Holocaust Museum tested several bars of soap to see if they >were human. They were not. But the fact is that they tested them. Why? >Because they thought that they might be! What does that tell you? It >tells you that Jews, too, can be the victims of propaganda, and can >agonize and torture themselves for decades. > >Gas Chambers are not good for anybody, and are largely irrelevant. This >issue will be settled when that is realized. There you are wrong. The real issue is not the gas chambers, indeed, but the existence or not of an extermination policy. However, if there was no gas chambers, than there was no extermination policy. Without those gas chambers, the Jews who were deported in Auschwitz, Treblinka and who were not registered could just have vanish in the Eastern territories as the German document described. My common sense tell me that if the Nazis had liquidate those Jews in the Eastern territories in a systematic way then the allied and especially the Russians would have accused the Nazis of this crime for all the missing Jews rather than to have take the huge risk to create this fishy story with gas chambers. There was no extermination policy, and this make a big difference. If you differ in your opinion on that point, than I can't do anything for you. I will not cry like you for the Jews who died during the war. Not because I'm happy of that, but because we could fill oceans with the tears that have been yet shed. Jews were not the only one who suffered. 40 millions persons died and the 2,5% of the casualties that I believe has nothing to do with the main element of the war. What is extraordinary is the political exploitation of the myths. So without gas chambers there's no difference? This is probably what the pigs who support censorship will say when the myth will be overthrown. No difference? why then is there jail sentence in Germany and other coun- tries for the revisionnist? why so much intimidation, murder attempt, careers broken, lobbying? Because the majority of the revisionnist are far-rightist? It his the historical opinion on this matter that is submit to censorship, not just the favorable opinions to a dictatorship. I've rarely attack Jews here, but you can be sure that I won't cry an apologize for my revisionist opinion in my case. For me, Jews are not exceptionnal. They have the same blood than me. I do not consider each Jew as an incarnation of the devil, nor the state of Israel despite I dislike its policy. The Holocaustmania is certanly however one of the major factor of deca- dence in their culture. I know perfectly that the bulk of the Jews believes sincerelly all the aspects of the Holocaust. Doesn't mean that several of them will not use it when it is convenient. I do suppose that they consider themself as right to do so, because of their education, because a large amount of persons do it around them. I can understand that several Jews lied about their ennemies who persecuted them, who humiliated them. This is not extraordinary. What is huge however is the way that Wiesenthal and his goons, the ADL and some other organisations have lie systematically in an organized way. Too much longer. I think that a part of the Jews consider that the bulk of the Germans are not responsible for the Holocaust while several other do consider that. Don't know the proportion, perhaps half and half. I do consider that it's hard to reject the blame over all the peoples when the hoax will be overthrown. But don't tell me that 'this make no difference', and that I have attend to a funny small hoax that has little impact on our life. This is why revisionnism is fascinating to me: I can check any newsgroup over hundreds and the Holocaust will be one of the topic over the year. If you consider the chairmans of the ADL can lie in your face over decades, sodomize you and tell you that you are guilty of everything and use this guilt feeling to support their political agenda and the US foreign policy, if you enjoy it, that's your problem.  From jfbe@vir.com Tue May 28 13:57:09 PDT 1996 Article: 39830 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Auschwitz, a secret? (2) (Repost) Date: 26 May 1996 23:57:55 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 151 Message-ID: <4oar63$otd@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne12.vir.com We will take a look now at the usual propaganda over the war. The american Arthur Butz, especially, was the first to do an exhaustive inquiry about it. What is clear from his review of american newspapers is that the propaganda about mass extermination started as sson as 1942. It was mainly statements made by zionist officials, Chaim Weizman among others, that were often related to an appeal for the opening of Palestine to jewish immigration. Several camps or atrocities are mentionned, Belzec, Chelmo, Sobibor, Treblinka, and the accusations take miscellaneous forms: jews who are shot, report about mass electrocution of jews in Belzec, gasing methos in Treblinka, poison, sometimes the use of wagons were lethal gas is used. It looks like the usual scrap that any war is normally generating: propaganda. Several of those accusations were drop after the war. I was able to find recently a rare book: 'the black book of the polish jewry', publish at the end of 1943. This book is totally consistent with the war propaganda that can be found in the newspapers: Chelmo, Treblinka, story of atrocities, in some cases details: 250 jewish children allegedly killed in a jewish sanatorium, elsewhere 50 jews executed in a township, the book is a collection of war propaganda, probably a mix of thruth an falsehoods, an over few hundreds pages we have an idea of what kind of stories were used by several jewish organisations which had their large network of informant across Europe. Nowhere Auschwitz is mention, despite the mass gasing of jews is supposed to have start in the spring of 1942. The index, that contains a large amount of places were atrocities are allegedly comitted, do not contain the name of Auschwitz. Several minor stories, but nothing about the gasing of hundreds of thousand of jews there. Enrique Aynat made a deep inquiry with the review published by the polish government in exile in London, the 'Polish fighting review'. It is similar stuff. Several stories about atrocities against jews were put in circulation by this review ( the informations were received in the same way that what was explained earlier, from the A.K.) but Auschwitz appear just few times before 1945. But there's more: when it appear, it is not in connection with mass gasing of jews. It is about case of torture, hard work, the tough conditions of the inmates who have to work for the military production. An example of that can be find in the 1 july 1942 article (n0 47) where it is mention that the German use syringue to kill prisonners of Bikernau. There's a base of thruth: the method was at least used for the uthanasy of prisonners who were affect by the catastrophic typhus epidemy of 1942, but there's no evidence that it was use to liquidate them because of an extermination policy. In several other articles during 2 years, very 'low level' details about some inmates who died are given, and in a case it is say that few hundred russian prisonners were gased at a specific date. What is astonishing here is that over 2 years and a half, the systematic murder of hundreds of thousands of jews seems to be ignored while the polish resistance is suppose to be aware of a single gasing of russian pows at a time. There is also a reference to the gasing of polish childrens at the end of 1943, despite today we never speak about the gasing of poles. But among the huge amount of propaganda that was published over those years, this is all. Before the mid 1944, the atrocities were generally not concerning Auschwitz and when it was th case, the mass gasing of jews was not mention. Ken McVay up to know have just bring one tele- gram sent during the war from a spy (Schultz) who played a role in the diffusion of propaganda. However, Schultz do not mention Auschwitz but a project that was discuss to kill Jews with Zyklon B in Berlin (in the future). The telegram was sent while the gasing operations had allegedly start a while before and Schultz source is even not Auschwitz inmates account but an obscure meeting of SS officers. With the huge amount of propaganda and scrap that talk about electrocutions, vapor chambers, etc... this is weak. The story about the mass gasing of jews in Auschwitz began really in the summer of 1944 in the allied newspapers, and then we can say that the persons who were spreading the atrocities stories had no choice: the other camps were shut down several months before. First remark: such stories are not 'a proof' of mass gasing, simply because propaganda and false accusations were always a part of war, and second because those accusations were made in connection with a call to allied countries for negotiations with germans. The zionist leaders of that time had clearly an objective in the mind: put pressure on the British and force them to allow the opening of the Palestine borders to jewish immigration. Israel was not existing yet, and the arabs were the majority there. Several declarations in the newspapers let no ambiguity about it. Second remark: the real problem is that it is hard to believe that such mounstruous events, the gasing of hundreds of thousand of jews over 2 years, could be absent of publications like the 'black book of the Polish jewry' while minor stories about the executions of 50 jews in a small township are present. That book was publish expresselly for the sake of propaganda, to talk exhaustivelly about the anti jewish persecutions. And it is not because Auschwitz was 'secret'. We can have a clear indication of that with the anti-revisionnist author Martin Gilbert in 'Auschwitz and the allied', p 340. After an exhaustive review of the documentation, he conclude that Auschwitz was absent of the war propaganda before the mid 1944. There it's like to say that events like those that happend in Rwanda did exist over 2 years but that despite information was collected on a daily based by A.K. agents in Bikernau and Auschwitz 1, nobody seem aware of it. Imagine 2 Rwandas over 2 years and nobody within that country noticed anything during this period except at the end. Third remark: such an absence of propaganda would be more acceptable for camps like Belzec, simply because those one were more isolated, there was not an important towniship beside, there was not hundreds of civilians who worked there, inmates were not frequently reshiped in the vicinity of the camps and able to have contact with civilians, Belzec was not of any strategical importance for the american since it hadn't any Buma plan industry: the inmates were suppose to arrive there and to be killed quickly, nothing else. But what we have in the WWII propaganda is the opposite: no possible secret for Auschwitz, but it is there that an unexplanable silence was keepen. It must be say also that according to the post war confessions, Auschwitz was suppose to be the 'metropol' of the extermination, the main camp. At Nuremberg, the bulk of the extermination story was built on Auschwitz. Fourth remark: The story about the 'revelation of the secret' is of an uncommensurable absurdity. The WRB report, published in 1944, is suppose to be an accurate description of the nature of Auschwitz. The american press revealed that 2 inmates escaped and were able to go in Switzerland to give a very accurate description of the gassing procedure and the installations in Auscwitz. The authors of the WRB report stayed anonymous during 16 years despite it had be more credible to present those ones immediatelly. They stayed anonymous for 16 years and the jewish writter Reitlinger was a bit bothered in the first edition of the final solution about this fact but those ones were produced before the second edition of his book 150 miles away from his Sussex domicile (London). Rudolph Vrba, author of a best seller a bit later, 'I cannot forgive'. Vrba is suppose to had the false identity of Walter Rosenberg in Auschwitz despite he wrote that the other inmates called him 'Rudi'. Several, a lot of contradictions exist in Vrba's 'memories', Vrba as many knows was obligated to admit that he lied on many things in the cross -examination of 1988 (Zundel trial). Let say just that when I read Vrba's book, I saw that his escape had a specific purpose: give a warn to the whole world about the fate of the jews in Auschwitz, 'breaking the secret' in other words. One have just to read the previous message to realize that it is ridicoulous. Vrba could not have escape and be charge of such a mission simply because hundreds of escapes occured before his alledge escape. Despite the inconsistences in his testimony, Vrba's credibility is essantial. The defenders of the legend can conceed that an obscur eye witness could have lie, but Vrba is a kind of detonnator, a domino: since he talk about his entertainment with F. Muller at the camp, since the key eyewitness Sonderkommando F. Muller said also that he spoke with Vrba several times in Auschwitz, if one of the testimony is false, the other collapse. If Vrba testimony is false, then one would have to explain why the real authors of the WRB report never challendge Vrba's story. And then we would conclude that the WRB report wasn't writen by S.Kommandos but by higher rank propagandist who had a large amount of datas available: this is where the story began.  From jfbe@vir.com Tue May 28 13:57:10 PDT 1996 Article: 39831 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!nctuccca.edu.tw!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!Rezonet.net!Vir.com!usenet From: Jean-Francois Beaulieu Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Auschwitz, a secret? (1) Repost Date: 26 May 1996 23:56:14 GMT Organization: Communications Vir, Internet Access Montreal. Lines: 174 Message-ID: <4oar2u$otd@Vir.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipdyne12.vir.com I've recently retouch some parts of this postings which is a mix of A.Butz, Enrique Aynat (half of my sources) and J.F. Beaulieu First of all, the usual statement that the Germans have try to keep the secret about their extermination policy is completelly ridicoulous. This 'attempt to preserve the secret' is often use to explain why the high level german documents captured by the allieds are often refering to the 'final solution' as a program of expulsion of the jews out of Europe. The Auschwitz camp was built close to an important agglomeration. Many civilians were working there during the day before to go back home at the evening. In 'les crematoires d'Auschwitz' (1993), the anti-revisionnist writer J.C. Pressac who use germans documents write (p62): "For the Bikernau crematories, the germans gaves the contracts to 12 civilians enterprises[...] Each working site was using between 100 and 150 peoples, 1/3 civilians." The number of ovens was growing with years with the expension of the camp and the maintenance was unavoidable. Auschwitz was critical for the allieds: Syntethic rubber production was important for the americans, and it is not surprising that many air photo missions concerning this camp took place. The huge backwardness of the americans concerning the fabrication of synthetic rubber after the lost of their usual source in Malaisia in 1941-42 didn't let them any choice: they had to know everything about Auschwitz, and there's no doubt that they took mesures to pick-up as much information as possible. We know, btw, that the americans broke the cryptology code that the germans used in their communications. Over 2 years 1/2, no mention of mass gasing was intercept despite the germans were ignoring that their cryptology method was discovered. But there's more: the english historian Laqueurt in 'the terrible secret' gaves some hint despite he's not revisionnist: We learn, around page 25, that Auschwitz was an archipello, that thousands of inmates were frequently shipped to annex camps, mixed with civilians across Silesia, that hundreds of civiliasn were working at Auschwitz 1, that journalist were travelling freely in this region... It is the same author who say that that there was hundreds of liberations in 1942-43-44, among several jews ( page 169). But also hundreds of escapes over those years! This thing can be found also in the 'Chronicle' from Danuta Czech. The jewish writter Reitlinger , in 'the final solution', talk also of an emettor-receiver that was in activity in the inmate barracks over months. The amiral Canaris, chief of the conter-spying agency of the third reich was a double agent. He gaves many informations to the allied countries during the war, but nothing about mass liquidation at Auschwitz was transmited. There was an organize resistance in nazi camps. Groups of communist, jews or others were able to send information to their fellows outside the camp. By the way, one could give an accurate picture of the power of such movement of resistance by reading 'Fighting Auschwitz', J. Garlinski. This is not a revisionnist book. As I said, it was impossible for the germans to avoid some contacts between the inmates and the local population. Many polish were, indeed, members of the resistance and some inmates had conversation with local populations when they were bring out of Auschwitz to execute misclellaneous labour tasks. Sometimes those civilians were hidding food and parcels somewhere before the inmates came to pick up those ones. Often, the SS in charge of the commandos were faking ignorance about those things in exchange of food or gifts. (J. Garlinski, Fighting Auschwitz, p 43-45). The contacts with the local population were develloped in such a way that letters and parcels could be send off the camp by the internal resistant ceils of Bikernau and Auschwitz on a regular basis. A group of the Cracovia resistance was regulary inform via letters. In this town were preserved 350 of those letters, 'a small fraction of a very much more important total' (H. Langbein, 'Hommes et femmes a Auschwitz', p.252). Letters succesfully reached Netherland also. In spite of that, those records are unusable to backup the extermination claim. As Butz pointed out, quoting L. Dawidowicz in her introductory chapter (p221): "One impedment was inadequacy of Jewish documentation despite its enor- mous quantity... The absence of vital subjects from the records may be explained by the predicament of terror and censorship; yet, lacking evidence to corroborate or disprove, the historian will never know with certanty wether that absence is a consequence of an institutional deci- sion not to deal with such matters or wether it was merely a consequence of prudential policy not to mention such matters. The terror was so great that even in private personal diaries, composed in Yiddish or Hebrew, were written circumspectly, with recourse to Scripture and the Talmud as a form of esoteric expression and self-imposed reticence." Garlinski mention also this story about the emettor receiver which was in activity over 7 months in 1942 in Auschwitz and due to its contacts, the direction of the Silesia local AK ceil (Armia Krajowa) was soon able to find the wavelenght used by the emettor. (J. Garlinski, Fighting Auschwitz p 126) The Armia Krajowa, or the interior (or secret ) army was formed in 1942 from a previous resistance movement. It was organised like a real army. In 1944 the AK could count on about 300,000 members. In Bikernau there was a secret organisation created in april 1942 by colonel Karcz. The contacts between the Bikernau organisation and the main camp of Auscwitz were taking place on a daily bases. The main task of Karcz group wat to provide informations to the Ak elements outside. In 1942 the organisation of W. Pilecki, an ex polish officer, could count on 1000 members between Auschwitz and Bikernau (Fighting Auschwitz, J. Garlinski,p 97-98). In 1942-43 the resistant groups in Auschwitz were so powerfull that they were contolling the Hospital, the kitchens, the main office and they had their agent in key positions. The activity of the resistance in the camp had a specific purpose: feed the Polish government in exile with exhaustive informations about the events that were occuring in the nazis camps. The A.K could count also on the complicity of few SS to transmit some messages outside ( Fighting Auschwitz, p 206-208). But often, messages were simply transmitted with the liberation of inmates ( W. Laqueurt, the terrible secret, p 169, Fighting Auschwitz, p 54-55, 112). Communications between Poland and London were relativelly easy for the resistance. The general Bor-Komorowski, commendant of the AK, said that clandestine radio messages were regularelly transmitted to London and that for the year 1942-43-44, there was almost 300 of those messages per month. (T. Bor-Komorowski, 'The secret Army', p. 150). An other part of the stuff was microfilm and send in London on a montly base. The polish resistance had about 100 radio emettors wich were able to reach England. But other messages were brought by newsmongers who were travelling to Sweeden ( neutral) and then Great Britain. Recently I got a copy of one of the most notorious revisionnist booklet: 'The Auschwitz lunge', Thie Christophersen. Christophersen is an ex German officer who had work in one of the peripherical camp around Auschwitz: Raisenko. This booklet is not notorious not because one could qualify it as a big scientific contribution to revisionnism, it's just a small booklet where an officer talk about his personnel experiences there (he visited Bikernau severel times in 1944). The notoriety of this booklet,publish in 1973, is mainly due to a false reference that can be found: a fictive red cross report that is suppose to claim that no more than 200,000 jews died in WWII. Because of that, the Auschwitz lunge received immediatelly the status of 'bible of the revisionnist', and it's still frequent to see in European books or magazine an unavoidable reference to that booklet and this fictive reference with the devellopment (sous-entendus): this is the bible of the revisionnist, it contain a lie, so the revisionnist are just liars and it is a good think that revisionnist material is banned since the public must be protect against those lies by peoples who will tell them what they must read. What amazed me the first time I took a look at it wasn't the fact that this false reference was just an isolated one among several otheres that were valid, it was to see that Christophersen didn't invent it: he just quote a real brasilian newspaper that didn't check before to publish this mention about the 'red cross report'. Anyway. From the tale of Christophersen, we know that SS families were able to visit the soldiers without any major problems in Auschwitz. We learn also that the inmates fron Bikernau were frequently shipped in other camps and could establish contact with the local population. This fact, as I said, was confirmed by the anti-revisionnist historian Laqueurt later. Now, first statement: Hoess, in his 'confession', supposelly given withous any cohercition, testified that when Himmler order him to establish a programm of mass extermination in his camp ( a verbal order to keep the secret) he received also instruction to not talk about it to Gluecks, general inspector of the camps, because the absolute secret was necessary. Can you believe it? 

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