The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/baron.al/1996/baron.0296


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb  1 07:23:21 PST 1996
Article: 22288 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron the Bigot
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 07:53:47 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <823074827snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <822904499snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4ek892$9bq@news.enter.net>
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In article <4ek892$9bq@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         You simply have not read the case.  There is no discussion of 
> "separate but equal."  The only mention of the principle was dicta used to 
> support the holding.  There was no "separate but equal" issue that was part of 
> the holding.  The holding was, clearly, that the criminal law could be used to 
> enforce separation between the races.  You have endorsed that decision.

The same way that the "criminal law" is used in Britain and elsewhere to 
enforce race-mixing. I would name the people who instigated these laws, but
if I did you'd call me anti-Semitic.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:21 PST 1996
Article: 22609 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can Lyin' Al Read?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:11:58 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <823353118snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <822965809snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4es1p1$1cn@news.enter.net>
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In article <4es1p1$1cn@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >  >         Read it again. Lyin' Al.  It says no such thing.  It says, quite
> >  >  clearly, 
> >  > that the evidence of an event is independent of the proof of the
>  mechanism. 
>  
> >  > To use an analogy we know there was a battle of Hastings in 1066 and that 
> >  > Harold, the kning of England was killed during that battle.  It is
>  irrelevant
> >  
> >  
> >  On the contrary, it is a declaration that no one must ever challenge the 
> >  perceived "wisdom" of the Holocaust.
> >>>>
>         My question is answered.  Lyin' Al cannot read.  At least he cannot 
> read and understand what he reads.


Try this on, Lawyer Edeiken: 

You: My Lord, my client could not possibly have shot the victim with this
gun because it does not fire .44 calibre bullets. It was not possible 
technically.

Judge: It was technically possible because it happened. Appeal dismissed.

Ditto the revealed truth of the Holocaust.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:22 PST 1996
Article: 22610 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yale Edeiken and racial hatred - time to look in the mirror
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:18:49 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <823353529snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <822904499snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4emavj$48v@larry.cc.emory.edu> <823074707snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4eqmfe$amk@larry.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <4eqmfe$amk@larry.cc.emory.edu>
           libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu "william c anderson" writes:

> I think, though, that we were talking about segregation in the American
> south before the civil rights movement.  I'll repeat the question--
> if this segregation was intended to keep stupid, ignorant people from
> voting and thus messing up the culture, why were ignorant whites 
> allowed to vote, while educated blacks were disenfranchised?

I've heard this here before; I haven't researched the subject so won't 
comment on it except to say that I find this claim unconvincing. There have
certainly been Negro politicians, doctors, legislators etc in the South for
decades, going back to the last century. I find it unconvincing that 
blacks were denied their rights en bloc. Again, I'm not saying that there
has never been any genuine civil rights violation in the South but this
is hardly down to "racism". Incidentally, women didn't get the vote in
Switzerland until 1971; I don't recall any great "civil rights" protests
at that.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:23 PST 1996
Article: 22611 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Denying The Hinducaust
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:31:28 GMT
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DENYING THE HINDUCAUST: 

The Growing Assault On Miracles And Religion 

by Deborah A. Cowpat


Published by InFoText Manuscripts,
93c Venner Road,
Sydenham,
London SE26 5HU.
England.


ISBN 1 871473 68 3



DENYING THE HINDUCAUST: The Growing Assault On Miracles And 
Religion, by Deborah A. Cowpat


Publisher's Note


The following three essays were published in the May, June and 
July 2045 issues of $Hindu & Indian World Review$ respectively, 
by Deborah A. Cowpat, Rama Shiva Professor of Sophistry and 
Unreason in the Hindu University of Madras. In her first essay, 
$The Men Who Whitewash Skepticism$, Professor Cowpat exposes 
the faulty logic of the skeptics' movement (better known as 
Hinducaust Deniers), and their twisting of history. In the second 
essay, $Miracle Denial and the Compelling Force of Faith$, she 
explains the liberal dilemma in dealing with this disturbing 
phenomenon, while in the third essay, $DENYING THE HINDUCAUST: 
The Growing Assault On Miracles And Religion$, (from which this 
pamphlet takes it title), she expands on the ideas developed in 
the second essay. 
  Any similarities between these three essays and the long dis-
credited Zionist-sponsored polemics $The men who whitewash Hit-
ler$; (1) $Holocaust Denial and the Compelling Force of 
Reason$; (2) and $DENYING the HOLOCAUST...$, (3) are purely 
coincidental. 

[1] The Men Who Whitewash Skepticism


Foreword, by Khan't Lie


Academically unnoticed, the pseudo-intellectual "skeptics move-
ment" has been creating an underworld of contemporary history. 
Their claim, pressed with masses of fresh $evidence$, is denial 
of the Earthly manifestation of the God Ganesh through the Mira-
cles of the drinking idols that were so thoroughly documented 
throughout the world in September of 1995. Here, Deborah Cowpat 
demolishes the atheist apologists and anti-Indian racists toge-
ther with the commercial frivolity which provides their opportu-
nities. (4)


The Men Who Whitewash Skepticism 


There is a degree of indecency in entertaining a dialogue with 
the likes of Hinducaust Deniers. (5) According to the atheist and 
renegade philosopher Saul Hurtz, almost a million copies of the 
obscene pamphlet $Did The Idols Really Drink?$ have now been 
distributed worldwide, including, incredibly, a "bootleg" edition 
in Hindi. People who generally consider themselves well-informed 
say: "But why go on with this insane argument? Why give these 
lunatics space in a scholarly magazine like $Hindu & Indian World 
Review$? Why spend precious time and space refuting their 
lies?"
  Time and space are indeed precious, and neither the writer nor 
the editor should squander them. There are two weighty reasons 
why one must pursue them. The first reason is that the Deniers 
are by no means motivated by an ethical or intellectual preoccu-
pation with the historical truth but rather with precise aims for 
the future: namely the total destruction of our religion and the 
extermination of our race.
  The second reason we must come to grips with both the substance 
and the detail of the Deniers' claims is that sometimes mistakes 
have been made, have been given enormous publicity, and have 
become part of the Hinducaust lore, (in other words a load of 
bulldrink). At the risk of giving offence, we must correct and 
explain these mistakes so that they cannot be exploited again.
  I will first of all briefly review the current state of know-
ledge. In January, 1995, a rumour was started in a Karachi suburb 
that a Ganesh idol had drunk a cup of milk in 24 hours. At first, 
the story appeared so utterly inconceivable that the secular 
authorities refused to give any credence to it at all. However, 
the following August a report was smuggled out of Pakistan (by 
Rudi Vucker and Alf Windup) and this was authenticated in Delhi 
on September 21, 1995 when an idol was seen to consume an entire 
churn of milk within the space of half an hour. 
  Since Pakistan was granted independence from the British in 
1948, the small number of Hindus living in that country had been 
subject to state-sponsored persecution. The worldwide chapati 
boycott of February 1993 was followed by the attempted assassina-
tion of the Captain of the Pakistani Cricket Team. This led to 
the infamous $Glass Night$ in which the windows of every Indian 
curry house and Hindu temple throughout Pakistan were smashed, 
and a collective fine of fifty billion rupees was imposed on the 
Hindu community by the Islamic authorities.
  This extermination of our people (6) continued, and the clarion 
call "The Hindus are our misfortune" was taken up by Western 
racists. However, by this time, the God Ganesh had manifested 
throughout the West, and Hindu temples the world over were re-
porting their Ganesh idols consuming cups and even gallons of 
milk per hour. Since then, countless millions of Hindus - and 
non-Hindus - have witnessed the drinking idols throughout the 
world; tens of thousands of books have been written on the sub-
ject, again, not a few by non-Hindus, and many millions more have 
recorded their experiences in affidavits, legal proceedings, 
documentaries, and the like. Distinguished academics from univer-
sities the world over have studied the phenomenon, and each and 
every one of them has concluded that the bulls really did drink. 
How then can anyone deny the Hinducaust?
  The current, so-called debate was started after the publication 
of an anonymous, scurrilous pamphlet by one "Ravi Charwood" in 
2041. This is the aforementioned $Did The Idols Really Drink?$ 
Charwood's real identity was revealed some time later; he is a 
well-known trouble-maker and Vice-President of the Indian Ratio-
nalist Association. In his obscene and misleading pseudo-history, 
Charwood makes the claim that "By a curious coincidence, all the 
drinking idols were manufactured by Dar & Ballasingham of Brad-
ford." He goes on to cite the 2020 report by Dr Mahatmar Blowfart 
of the Institute for Contemporary Hindu Studies in Karachi, who 
allegedly made this "admission" in an article in $Asian Grocer$ 
magazine (a respected monthly journal published in London, Eng-
land). 
  Professor Blowfart remembers it well: "How could I ever forget 
it?" he says, "when atheists, heretics, non-believers and racists 
have rubbed my nose in it ever since?" This letter was written in 
yet another attempt - many have been made - to hammer home once 
and for all the persistently ignored or denied difference between 
the genuine drinking bull idols and the "fake" drinking bull 
idols which were produced in their thousands in honour of the God 
Ganesh's manifestation.
  "It's very simple", says Dr Blowfart, "obviously the great God 
Ganesh would not reveal himself in every single Hindu temple the 
world over. However, in all the excitement generated by sensatio-
nalist reporting, almost every Hindu worldwide wanted a piece of 
the action. The result of that was that a number of companies - 
mostly Western multi-nationals - began manufacturing "drinking 
idols" which were advertised and sold strictly for amusement 
purposes, and, of course, to honour the Deity. These idols were 
fitted with a special cavity so that when milk was poured over 
them it disappeared down the stem and was discharged to a drain 
beneath the hollow tripods on which they were mounted."
  Dr Blowfart dismisses the claim that these idols were ever 
intended for illegitimate purposes. "This is nonsense", he say, 
"as stated, they were for and amusement purposes, and to honour 
the great God Ganesh. No one in his right mind ever claimed 
$these$ Ganesh statues could really drink milk. The confusion 
came about when Western newsmen became confused over the two and 
started photographing the demonstration models and passing them 
off as the real thing. (7) The main reasons for this were lazi-
ness, sloppy research and cost-cutting. Obviously a news station 
would much rather send its reporters to a local Hindu temple to 
film a $fake$ drinking bull than send a news team several 
hundred miles to film a genuine one, which on the surface didn't 
look any different."
  Dr Blowfart also explained an apparent anomaly, the fact that 
these fake drinking bull statues had actually been in existence 
long before the real ones were authenticated. "There's nothing 
sinister about that," he laughed, "this was the work of a practi-
cal joker named Sefton Chand. During the Pakistan War of Indepen-
dence, all manner of atrocity propaganda was circulated against 
our people: it was claimed for example that we used to burn 
brides, practise infanticide, and even ritually murder Moslem 
boys in order to bake their blood in our puppadoms. To counteract 
this, Chand invented the story of drinking idols. This was ex-
posed - along with all the black propaganda - in the 1958 book by 
a member of the Pakistani Parliament, Ahmed Ponser. This book, 
$Falsehood In Curryland$, was not widely read, but any histor-
ian worthy of the name will have heard of it. The Hinducaust 
Deniers never tire of dragging this up; their argument is always: 
'If there were fake milk-drinking statutes in the 1948 war, how 
do we know that the statutes really drank milk during the Hindu-
caust?' Obviously it is not worth even trying to discuss this 
sort of nonsense; just because some were proven or even admitted 
fakes, doesn't mean that they all were."


[2] Miracle Denial and the Compelling Force of Faith


The Hinducaust was not a tragedy for the Hindus but rather a 
tragedy for the whole of civilisation in which the victims were 
Hindus, so too, denial of the Hinducaust and the associated 
Miracles is not a threat only to Hindus and Hindu history, but 
rather to all of us who believe in the ultimate power of ignor-
ance and dogma.
  Denial of the Hinducaust is certainly a form of racism; it is 
rational and cannot be countered with the normal and natural 
forces of wailing and gnashing of teeth; rather it insists on 
argument and debate, but we have to stress that there is no 
argument and no debate here. Objective truths - portions of 
stories which conveniently insert crucial information - leave the 
reader with a true impression of what really happened. It is 
truly amazing that given the preponderance of testimony from 
witnesses, bystanders and priests, that anyone should waste time 
worrying about Miracle Denial and Hinducaust Deniers. What they 
should do is accept the Hinducaust as a matter of blind faith. 
What right have the Deniers to assume that it didn't happen? How 
could such a phenomenon that was witnessed by so many people 
within such a short time be explained away as a delusion? The 
quantity of the evidence is overwhelming. Who but a skeptic or a 
mischief-maker would suggest that the quality of it is a right 
load of old bulldrink?
  The distinguished Hindu linguist Gnome Chopra is reported to 
have defended one of the leading Hinducaust Deniers. "Scholars' 
ideas, however distasteful, cannot be censored," he wrote in an 
article in defence of Rabid For-it's-not. What Chopra fails to 
realise, what all the supposed protectors of the liberal Hindu 
ideal of mysticism fail to realise, is that anyone can fall prey 
to the convoluted and misguided notion that all arguments are 
entitled to a fair hearing. Those who argue that the Deniers must 
be given any sort of hearing fail to recognise that the Deniers 
are searching for scientific explanations rather than revealed 
truth. We are not, of course, suggesting that the Deniers should 
be muzzled, (8) simply that they be hounded from their jobs, 
beaten up and declared unpersons.


[3] DENYING the HINDUCAUST: The Growing Assault On 
Miracles And Religion


Hinducaust Deniers are comparable to Copernicus and Galileo, 
people who insist that our senses can deceive us, and that the 
world can be round even though it appears everywhere flat. This 
is absurd; people who insist on confronting the Deniers head-on 
inevitably find their faith challenged by the power of the Den-
iers' reason. We cannot debate with them because there is no 
debate; we cannot argue with them because there is nothing to 
argue about.
  Many times I personally have turned down invitations to debate 
with Deniers. Only last week I turned down an opportunity to 
debate them on an international TV/Internet debate. If I were to 
debate with them I would give them the legitimacy they deserve, 
and I have absolutely no intention of doing that. Hinducaust 
Denial is not only an anti-Hindu but ultimately an anti-religious 
and racist ideology. What else can be said about the methodology 
of people who conveniently insert critical information, leave a 
true impression of the frailty of all human testimonies, dismiss-
ing them as contrived, coerced, or forgeries and falsehoods? Even 
though the vast majority of them are.
  On some level, Hinducaust Denial is as believable as the Hindu-
caust itself. It constitutes the abuse of seemingly sincere 
witnesses. "What proof do we have that the witnesses are telling 
the truth?" they ask. How dare they suggest that countless Hindus 
- and non-Hindus, never let it be forgotten - have been the 
victims of an elaborate hoax, $Hindu propaganda$, or plain, 
old-fashioned self-deception?
  In 2042, a member of the Pakistan Parliament is said to have 
referred to the Hinducaust as "a 'legend' stuffed with lies". And 
this after all the re-education our people, especially in the 
film industry, have subjected these murdering Paki bastards to. 
In Pakistan alone the powerful arm of International Hindury has 
been able to have no less that fourteen schoolteachers dismissed 
>from  their jobs, and to shut down five, yes five, major Islamic 
newspapers. In the United Kingdom, United States and other white 
nations, our power is, paradoxically, even greater. Any charge of 
racism against any of these stupid people has them cowering in 
submission before us. The only negative aspect of this is that 
many of these racist pigs insist on "equal protection" under the 
law for all minorities, including Moslems of all ethnic back-
grounds, Pakis as well.
  It is true that Gnome Chopra has claimed that not all Hindu-
caust Deniers are Hindu-hating racists, in particular he cites 
the case of Rabid For-it's-not. "Is it anti-Hindu to speak of 
Hindu lies?" he asks; "Would Hinduism be the first religion to 
have concocted lies in order to further its own agenda?" Anyone 
who could ask such a question is either a racist or a fool. 
Chopra is no racist, nor is he simply a fool, rather he is the 
king of fools.
  Hinducaust Deniers are beyond the pale. One can only applaud 
the recent declaration of the Asian historians, which I reproduce 
here in full:

The Miracles Of Ganesh And The Hinducaust: 
A Declaration By The Historians Of Asia

"Since the end of the Twentieth Century, it has happened on 
several occasions that publicists, sometimes taking the title of 
historians, have cast doubt on the veracity of the evidence of 
the Hinducaust and the worldwide phenomenon which manifested 
itself in 1995 of the drinking statues of Ganesh. This evidence 
had, in 1995, a glaring obviousness. Today though, the great 
majority of the witnesses are dead. To contend that the statues 
did not really drink milk it is really necessary to admit in 
one's conscience that the Hindus and countless others who claimed 
to have witnessed such phenomena were all three sandwiches short 
of a picnic, that the mass media the world over was motivated by 
lurid sensationalism, and that the Hindu religion has been taking 
the piss out of mankind for the past half century. It is not 
necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such milk-drinking by 
statues was possible. It was possible technically because it took 
place, there is not, there cannot be, any debate on the existence 
of milk-drinking statues of Ganesh."

  The aim of the Deniers is, in the first instance, to promote 
seeds of doubt that will bear fruit in coming years, when there 
are no more eyewitnesses alive to attest to the truth of the 
Miracles.
  Unreason must be free to promote dogma. One of the ways of 
promoting dogma is by fudging the distinctions between scholar-
ship and myth. Hinducaust Deniers are people who consciously 
separate these categories.
  Hinducaust Deniers always distinguish between fact and fiction, 
as if not only faith were not enough, but as if it had no place 
whatsoever in recording the annals of history. It is true that 
there have, at certain times in history, particularly wars, been 
campaigns of lying propaganda in which Hindus have participated. 
But just because we have lied through our teeth in the past 
doesn't give people the right to suggest that we lied during the 
Hinducaust.
  Two of the vilest canards directed against Hindus are that they 
control the retail trade, and that international Hindury has 
effected a stranglehold on the film industry. It is certainly 
true that over 60% of small retail outlets in the United Kingdom, 
United States and selected European nations are owned by persons 
of Asian extraction, but in the first instance, many of them are 
our sworn enemies: the Moslems - and in the second instance, it 
is a total myth that those shops which are controlled by Hindus 
are part of a megalithic conspiracy.
  As to our alleged control of the mass media, it is common 
knowledge that in the 1940s this charge was levelled at the Jews 
and was routinely denounced by Jewish organisations as anti-
Semitism. If Jews are entitled to denounce their detractors as 
anti-Semites then it follows that Hindus must have the same 
right. Furthermore, it is only really in the past thirty years 
that Bollywood has taken over from Hollywood. If Hindus con-
trolled the media in the 1990s, why did so many newspapers, radio 
stations and TV channels pour scorn on the Hinducaust at the time 
the first Miracle was reported?
  Another persistent and wilful misrepresentation the Deniers are 
fond of throwing at us is the so-called admission by the Had 
Cashem Archive that more than half of its testimonies are unreli-
able. For Deniers this is further evidence of a colossal hoax. 
Yet the truth is that the very fact that so many of these testi-
monies are of doubtful value is further proof of the veracity of 
the Hinducaust. Why else would the Archive make such an admis-
sion? Isn't it obvious that if half the testimonies are admitted-
ly unreliable that the remainder must, by definition, be one 
hundred per cent authentic?
  It is correct that in recent years newly revealed documentation 
has allowed scholars to assess more precisely the number of 
genuine manifestations of the God Ganesh. It is also accurate 
that scholars have long written that despite Hinducaust rumours 
to the contrary, the British National Party did not build a gas 
chamber in their Welling Bunker. It is though manifestly not true 
that Court Historians - as the Deniers persist on calling them - 
are revising their ideas in response to the Deniers. If Hindu-
caust Denial has demonstrated anything, it is the fragility of 
unreason and dogma, and the necessity for even stronger and even 
more repressive anti-racist legislation to put Hindus above 
criticism, not only in Pakistan and the West, but throughout the 
entire world. (9) Who but a racist would suggest otherwise?


Notes And References


(1) $The men who whitewash Hitler$, by Gitta Sereny, published 
in the $New Statesman$, November 2, 1979, pages 670-3.
(2) $Holocaust Denial and the Compelling Force of Reason$, by 
Deborah Lipstadt, published in $Patterns Of Prejudice$, 1992, 
Volume 26, Numbers 1 & 2, pages 64-76. 
(3) $DENYING the HOLOCAUST: The Growing Assault on Truth and 
Memory$, by Deborah E. Lipstadt, published by the Free Press, 
New York, (1993).
(4) Any similarity between the previous passage and the introduc-
tion to $The men who whitewash Hitler$, by Gitta Sereny, pub-
lished in the $New Statesman$, November 2, 1979, is purely 
coincidental.
(5) In the original essay, Professor Cowpat uses a lowercase "d" 
in Deniers. We have altered this to uppercase solely to conform 
with the house style. Professor Cowpat claims to have coined the 
phrase Hinducaust Deniers. [Editor]
(6) Hinducaust Deniers often claim that because no Hindus were 
murdered during the $Glass Night$ that it is grammatically 
incorrect to use the word "exterminated" in this context. How-
ever, we would point out that Hindus have often been exterminated 
without being physically killed; the racist nature of the Den-
iers' rhetoric is too transparent to warrant serious discussion.
(7) Any similarity here between the alleged (and now admittedly 
fake) Dachau gas chambers and the so-called genuine Auschwitz gas 
chambers is purely coincidental.
(8) Some have suggested this to be a somewhat disingenuous claim 
in view of the "anti-hate" legislation that has been passed at 
the insistence of so many of her profession, but we cannot agree 
with that. Anyone who accuses any leading Hindu mystic of hypo-
crisy is obviously a closet racist.
(9) This does of course contradict Professor Cowpat's claim in 
her previous essay that "We are not, of course, suggesting that 
the Deniers should be muzzled..." But only a racist would be so 
tactless as to point that out. Heck, if you want logic and con-
sistency, study mathematics.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:24 PST 1996
Article: 22612 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron the Bigot
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:20:15 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <823353615snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823074827snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4euebr$kbc@news.enter.net>
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In article <4euebr$kbc@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >>>>
>         To my knowledge there is no law in Britain or elsewhere that forces you > to sit next to a black man on a train.  If you don't like the situation you may
>  get up 
> and move.  That is a far different situation from your position that the black
>  man 
> should be thrown in jail for daring to sit next to you.  Have you bothered to
>  read 
> "Plessy" yet?

There are laws which make it a criminal offence not to employ blacks, etc.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:25 PST 1996
Article: 22613 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stein's Holocaust Creed, where is it?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:23:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <823353824snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4efg46$bej@wi.combase.com> <4ekhr5$kt3@wi.combase.com> <4el78e$47u@access2.digex.net> <4en506$sha@wi.combase.com> <4ensoi$a79@access2.digex.net>
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In article <4ensoi$a79@access2.digex.net>
           mstein@access2.digex.net "Michael P. Stein" writes:

>     Nothing has to be believed.  You may discuss anything.

Tell that to the Board of Deputies of "British" Jews and their fellow 
travellers - Jew and Gentile - who want it made a criminal offence to 
dispute their officially sanctioned lies. Tell it to Faurisson and others
who have been hounded for refusing to believe. If these people had
their way, the same position would prevail in the good ol' USA.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:25 PST 1996
Article: 22631 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 00:15:47 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <823220147snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4doqu1$7t2@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <822119991snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4dvfd8$12lc@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <822378336snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4ea3fo$1pqm@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <822714390snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4enil0$6tk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4enil0$6tk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> If you had a grasp of current academic discourse--and I don't fault
> you for this: you are not, after all, an academic

Academic discourse? There are two rules to this:

rule one: never say anything critical of Imperial Zion, like calling a Jew
 a liar (unless his name is David Cole) on pain of being smeared as anti-
Semitic.

rule two: if in doubt, refer to rule one.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 06:32:26 PST 1996
Article: 22633 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron and the Babi-Yar Massacre (Re: NOT SAY ANYTHING TO T
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 00:21:36 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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References: <123042208wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <822544663snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <822815917snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <4emrcj$39l6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4emrcj$39l6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> In the interests of fairness, I have done Mr. Baron's work for him.  
> 
> Why the difference?  I don't know.  Two possibilities: (1) Hoefer saw the SS
> who administered the coup de grace to anyone who survived the initial
> fusillade and assumed there were only two executioners or (2) he did not
> clearly see to the bottom of the pit, which is where Kurt Werner was.

There is a third possibility; in the words of Josef Ginsberg: "It's all made up."

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:20 PST 1996
Article: 22609 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can Lyin' Al Read?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:11:58 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <823353118snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <822965809snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4es1p1$1cn@news.enter.net>
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In article <4es1p1$1cn@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >  >         Read it again. Lyin' Al.  It says no such thing.  It says, quite
> >  >  clearly, 
> >  > that the evidence of an event is independent of the proof of the
>  mechanism. 
>  
> >  > To use an analogy we know there was a battle of Hastings in 1066 and that 
> >  > Harold, the kning of England was killed during that battle.  It is
>  irrelevant
> >  
> >  
> >  On the contrary, it is a declaration that no one must ever challenge the 
> >  perceived "wisdom" of the Holocaust.
> >>>>
>         My question is answered.  Lyin' Al cannot read.  At least he cannot 
> read and understand what he reads.


Try this on, Lawyer Edeiken: 

You: My Lord, my client could not possibly have shot the victim with this
gun because it does not fire .44 calibre bullets. It was not possible 
technically.

Judge: It was technically possible because it happened. Appeal dismissed.

Ditto the revealed truth of the Holocaust.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:21 PST 1996
Article: 22610 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yale Edeiken and racial hatred - time to look in the mirror
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:18:49 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <823353529snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <822904499snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4emavj$48v@larry.cc.emory.edu> <823074707snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4eqmfe$amk@larry.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <4eqmfe$amk@larry.cc.emory.edu>
           libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu "william c anderson" writes:

> I think, though, that we were talking about segregation in the American
> south before the civil rights movement.  I'll repeat the question--
> if this segregation was intended to keep stupid, ignorant people from
> voting and thus messing up the culture, why were ignorant whites 
> allowed to vote, while educated blacks were disenfranchised?

I've heard this here before; I haven't researched the subject so won't 
comment on it except to say that I find this claim unconvincing. There have
certainly been Negro politicians, doctors, legislators etc in the South for
decades, going back to the last century. I find it unconvincing that 
blacks were denied their rights en bloc. Again, I'm not saying that there
has never been any genuine civil rights violation in the South but this
is hardly down to "racism". Incidentally, women didn't get the vote in
Switzerland until 1971; I don't recall any great "civil rights" protests
at that.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:22 PST 1996
Article: 22611 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Denying The Hinducaust
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:31:28 GMT
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DENYING THE HINDUCAUST: 

The Growing Assault On Miracles And Religion 

by Deborah A. Cowpat


Published by InFoText Manuscripts,
93c Venner Road,
Sydenham,
London SE26 5HU.
England.


ISBN 1 871473 68 3



DENYING THE HINDUCAUST: The Growing Assault On Miracles And 
Religion, by Deborah A. Cowpat


Publisher's Note


The following three essays were published in the May, June and 
July 2045 issues of $Hindu & Indian World Review$ respectively, 
by Deborah A. Cowpat, Rama Shiva Professor of Sophistry and 
Unreason in the Hindu University of Madras. In her first essay, 
$The Men Who Whitewash Skepticism$, Professor Cowpat exposes 
the faulty logic of the skeptics' movement (better known as 
Hinducaust Deniers), and their twisting of history. In the second 
essay, $Miracle Denial and the Compelling Force of Faith$, she 
explains the liberal dilemma in dealing with this disturbing 
phenomenon, while in the third essay, $DENYING THE HINDUCAUST: 
The Growing Assault On Miracles And Religion$, (from which this 
pamphlet takes it title), she expands on the ideas developed in 
the second essay. 
  Any similarities between these three essays and the long dis-
credited Zionist-sponsored polemics $The men who whitewash Hit-
ler$; (1) $Holocaust Denial and the Compelling Force of 
Reason$; (2) and $DENYING the HOLOCAUST...$, (3) are purely 
coincidental. 

[1] The Men Who Whitewash Skepticism


Foreword, by Khan't Lie


Academically unnoticed, the pseudo-intellectual "skeptics move-
ment" has been creating an underworld of contemporary history. 
Their claim, pressed with masses of fresh $evidence$, is denial 
of the Earthly manifestation of the God Ganesh through the Mira-
cles of the drinking idols that were so thoroughly documented 
throughout the world in September of 1995. Here, Deborah Cowpat 
demolishes the atheist apologists and anti-Indian racists toge-
ther with the commercial frivolity which provides their opportu-
nities. (4)


The Men Who Whitewash Skepticism 


There is a degree of indecency in entertaining a dialogue with 
the likes of Hinducaust Deniers. (5) According to the atheist and 
renegade philosopher Saul Hurtz, almost a million copies of the 
obscene pamphlet $Did The Idols Really Drink?$ have now been 
distributed worldwide, including, incredibly, a "bootleg" edition 
in Hindi. People who generally consider themselves well-informed 
say: "But why go on with this insane argument? Why give these 
lunatics space in a scholarly magazine like $Hindu & Indian World 
Review$? Why spend precious time and space refuting their 
lies?"
  Time and space are indeed precious, and neither the writer nor 
the editor should squander them. There are two weighty reasons 
why one must pursue them. The first reason is that the Deniers 
are by no means motivated by an ethical or intellectual preoccu-
pation with the historical truth but rather with precise aims for 
the future: namely the total destruction of our religion and the 
extermination of our race.
  The second reason we must come to grips with both the substance 
and the detail of the Deniers' claims is that sometimes mistakes 
have been made, have been given enormous publicity, and have 
become part of the Hinducaust lore, (in other words a load of 
bulldrink). At the risk of giving offence, we must correct and 
explain these mistakes so that they cannot be exploited again.
  I will first of all briefly review the current state of know-
ledge. In January, 1995, a rumour was started in a Karachi suburb 
that a Ganesh idol had drunk a cup of milk in 24 hours. At first, 
the story appeared so utterly inconceivable that the secular 
authorities refused to give any credence to it at all. However, 
the following August a report was smuggled out of Pakistan (by 
Rudi Vucker and Alf Windup) and this was authenticated in Delhi 
on September 21, 1995 when an idol was seen to consume an entire 
churn of milk within the space of half an hour. 
  Since Pakistan was granted independence from the British in 
1948, the small number of Hindus living in that country had been 
subject to state-sponsored persecution. The worldwide chapati 
boycott of February 1993 was followed by the attempted assassina-
tion of the Captain of the Pakistani Cricket Team. This led to 
the infamous $Glass Night$ in which the windows of every Indian 
curry house and Hindu temple throughout Pakistan were smashed, 
and a collective fine of fifty billion rupees was imposed on the 
Hindu community by the Islamic authorities.
  This extermination of our people (6) continued, and the clarion 
call "The Hindus are our misfortune" was taken up by Western 
racists. However, by this time, the God Ganesh had manifested 
throughout the West, and Hindu temples the world over were re-
porting their Ganesh idols consuming cups and even gallons of 
milk per hour. Since then, countless millions of Hindus - and 
non-Hindus - have witnessed the drinking idols throughout the 
world; tens of thousands of books have been written on the sub-
ject, again, not a few by non-Hindus, and many millions more have 
recorded their experiences in affidavits, legal proceedings, 
documentaries, and the like. Distinguished academics from univer-
sities the world over have studied the phenomenon, and each and 
every one of them has concluded that the bulls really did drink. 
How then can anyone deny the Hinducaust?
  The current, so-called debate was started after the publication 
of an anonymous, scurrilous pamphlet by one "Ravi Charwood" in 
2041. This is the aforementioned $Did The Idols Really Drink?$ 
Charwood's real identity was revealed some time later; he is a 
well-known trouble-maker and Vice-President of the Indian Ratio-
nalist Association. In his obscene and misleading pseudo-history, 
Charwood makes the claim that "By a curious coincidence, all the 
drinking idols were manufactured by Dar & Ballasingham of Brad-
ford." He goes on to cite the 2020 report by Dr Mahatmar Blowfart 
of the Institute for Contemporary Hindu Studies in Karachi, who 
allegedly made this "admission" in an article in $Asian Grocer$ 
magazine (a respected monthly journal published in London, Eng-
land). 
  Professor Blowfart remembers it well: "How could I ever forget 
it?" he says, "when atheists, heretics, non-believers and racists 
have rubbed my nose in it ever since?" This letter was written in 
yet another attempt - many have been made - to hammer home once 
and for all the persistently ignored or denied difference between 
the genuine drinking bull idols and the "fake" drinking bull 
idols which were produced in their thousands in honour of the God 
Ganesh's manifestation.
  "It's very simple", says Dr Blowfart, "obviously the great God 
Ganesh would not reveal himself in every single Hindu temple the 
world over. However, in all the excitement generated by sensatio-
nalist reporting, almost every Hindu worldwide wanted a piece of 
the action. The result of that was that a number of companies - 
mostly Western multi-nationals - began manufacturing "drinking 
idols" which were advertised and sold strictly for amusement 
purposes, and, of course, to honour the Deity. These idols were 
fitted with a special cavity so that when milk was poured over 
them it disappeared down the stem and was discharged to a drain 
beneath the hollow tripods on which they were mounted."
  Dr Blowfart dismisses the claim that these idols were ever 
intended for illegitimate purposes. "This is nonsense", he say, 
"as stated, they were for and amusement purposes, and to honour 
the great God Ganesh. No one in his right mind ever claimed 
$these$ Ganesh statues could really drink milk. The confusion 
came about when Western newsmen became confused over the two and 
started photographing the demonstration models and passing them 
off as the real thing. (7) The main reasons for this were lazi-
ness, sloppy research and cost-cutting. Obviously a news station 
would much rather send its reporters to a local Hindu temple to 
film a $fake$ drinking bull than send a news team several 
hundred miles to film a genuine one, which on the surface didn't 
look any different."
  Dr Blowfart also explained an apparent anomaly, the fact that 
these fake drinking bull statues had actually been in existence 
long before the real ones were authenticated. "There's nothing 
sinister about that," he laughed, "this was the work of a practi-
cal joker named Sefton Chand. During the Pakistan War of Indepen-
dence, all manner of atrocity propaganda was circulated against 
our people: it was claimed for example that we used to burn 
brides, practise infanticide, and even ritually murder Moslem 
boys in order to bake their blood in our puppadoms. To counteract 
this, Chand invented the story of drinking idols. This was ex-
posed - along with all the black propaganda - in the 1958 book by 
a member of the Pakistani Parliament, Ahmed Ponser. This book, 
$Falsehood In Curryland$, was not widely read, but any histor-
ian worthy of the name will have heard of it. The Hinducaust 
Deniers never tire of dragging this up; their argument is always: 
'If there were fake milk-drinking statutes in the 1948 war, how 
do we know that the statutes really drank milk during the Hindu-
caust?' Obviously it is not worth even trying to discuss this 
sort of nonsense; just because some were proven or even admitted 
fakes, doesn't mean that they all were."


[2] Miracle Denial and the Compelling Force of Faith


The Hinducaust was not a tragedy for the Hindus but rather a 
tragedy for the whole of civilisation in which the victims were 
Hindus, so too, denial of the Hinducaust and the associated 
Miracles is not a threat only to Hindus and Hindu history, but 
rather to all of us who believe in the ultimate power of ignor-
ance and dogma.
  Denial of the Hinducaust is certainly a form of racism; it is 
rational and cannot be countered with the normal and natural 
forces of wailing and gnashing of teeth; rather it insists on 
argument and debate, but we have to stress that there is no 
argument and no debate here. Objective truths - portions of 
stories which conveniently insert crucial information - leave the 
reader with a true impression of what really happened. It is 
truly amazing that given the preponderance of testimony from 
witnesses, bystanders and priests, that anyone should waste time 
worrying about Miracle Denial and Hinducaust Deniers. What they 
should do is accept the Hinducaust as a matter of blind faith. 
What right have the Deniers to assume that it didn't happen? How 
could such a phenomenon that was witnessed by so many people 
within such a short time be explained away as a delusion? The 
quantity of the evidence is overwhelming. Who but a skeptic or a 
mischief-maker would suggest that the quality of it is a right 
load of old bulldrink?
  The distinguished Hindu linguist Gnome Chopra is reported to 
have defended one of the leading Hinducaust Deniers. "Scholars' 
ideas, however distasteful, cannot be censored," he wrote in an 
article in defence of Rabid For-it's-not. What Chopra fails to 
realise, what all the supposed protectors of the liberal Hindu 
ideal of mysticism fail to realise, is that anyone can fall prey 
to the convoluted and misguided notion that all arguments are 
entitled to a fair hearing. Those who argue that the Deniers must 
be given any sort of hearing fail to recognise that the Deniers 
are searching for scientific explanations rather than revealed 
truth. We are not, of course, suggesting that the Deniers should 
be muzzled, (8) simply that they be hounded from their jobs, 
beaten up and declared unpersons.


[3] DENYING the HINDUCAUST: The Growing Assault On 
Miracles And Religion


Hinducaust Deniers are comparable to Copernicus and Galileo, 
people who insist that our senses can deceive us, and that the 
world can be round even though it appears everywhere flat. This 
is absurd; people who insist on confronting the Deniers head-on 
inevitably find their faith challenged by the power of the Den-
iers' reason. We cannot debate with them because there is no 
debate; we cannot argue with them because there is nothing to 
argue about.
  Many times I personally have turned down invitations to debate 
with Deniers. Only last week I turned down an opportunity to 
debate them on an international TV/Internet debate. If I were to 
debate with them I would give them the legitimacy they deserve, 
and I have absolutely no intention of doing that. Hinducaust 
Denial is not only an anti-Hindu but ultimately an anti-religious 
and racist ideology. What else can be said about the methodology 
of people who conveniently insert critical information, leave a 
true impression of the frailty of all human testimonies, dismiss-
ing them as contrived, coerced, or forgeries and falsehoods? Even 
though the vast majority of them are.
  On some level, Hinducaust Denial is as believable as the Hindu-
caust itself. It constitutes the abuse of seemingly sincere 
witnesses. "What proof do we have that the witnesses are telling 
the truth?" they ask. How dare they suggest that countless Hindus 
- and non-Hindus, never let it be forgotten - have been the 
victims of an elaborate hoax, $Hindu propaganda$, or plain, 
old-fashioned self-deception?
  In 2042, a member of the Pakistan Parliament is said to have 
referred to the Hinducaust as "a 'legend' stuffed with lies". And 
this after all the re-education our people, especially in the 
film industry, have subjected these murdering Paki bastards to. 
In Pakistan alone the powerful arm of International Hindury has 
been able to have no less that fourteen schoolteachers dismissed 
>from  their jobs, and to shut down five, yes five, major Islamic 
newspapers. In the United Kingdom, United States and other white 
nations, our power is, paradoxically, even greater. Any charge of 
racism against any of these stupid people has them cowering in 
submission before us. The only negative aspect of this is that 
many of these racist pigs insist on "equal protection" under the 
law for all minorities, including Moslems of all ethnic back-
grounds, Pakis as well.
  It is true that Gnome Chopra has claimed that not all Hindu-
caust Deniers are Hindu-hating racists, in particular he cites 
the case of Rabid For-it's-not. "Is it anti-Hindu to speak of 
Hindu lies?" he asks; "Would Hinduism be the first religion to 
have concocted lies in order to further its own agenda?" Anyone 
who could ask such a question is either a racist or a fool. 
Chopra is no racist, nor is he simply a fool, rather he is the 
king of fools.
  Hinducaust Deniers are beyond the pale. One can only applaud 
the recent declaration of the Asian historians, which I reproduce 
here in full:

The Miracles Of Ganesh And The Hinducaust: 
A Declaration By The Historians Of Asia

"Since the end of the Twentieth Century, it has happened on 
several occasions that publicists, sometimes taking the title of 
historians, have cast doubt on the veracity of the evidence of 
the Hinducaust and the worldwide phenomenon which manifested 
itself in 1995 of the drinking statues of Ganesh. This evidence 
had, in 1995, a glaring obviousness. Today though, the great 
majority of the witnesses are dead. To contend that the statues 
did not really drink milk it is really necessary to admit in 
one's conscience that the Hindus and countless others who claimed 
to have witnessed such phenomena were all three sandwiches short 
of a picnic, that the mass media the world over was motivated by 
lurid sensationalism, and that the Hindu religion has been taking 
the piss out of mankind for the past half century. It is not 
necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such milk-drinking by 
statues was possible. It was possible technically because it took 
place, there is not, there cannot be, any debate on the existence 
of milk-drinking statues of Ganesh."

  The aim of the Deniers is, in the first instance, to promote 
seeds of doubt that will bear fruit in coming years, when there 
are no more eyewitnesses alive to attest to the truth of the 
Miracles.
  Unreason must be free to promote dogma. One of the ways of 
promoting dogma is by fudging the distinctions between scholar-
ship and myth. Hinducaust Deniers are people who consciously 
separate these categories.
  Hinducaust Deniers always distinguish between fact and fiction, 
as if not only faith were not enough, but as if it had no place 
whatsoever in recording the annals of history. It is true that 
there have, at certain times in history, particularly wars, been 
campaigns of lying propaganda in which Hindus have participated. 
But just because we have lied through our teeth in the past 
doesn't give people the right to suggest that we lied during the 
Hinducaust.
  Two of the vilest canards directed against Hindus are that they 
control the retail trade, and that international Hindury has 
effected a stranglehold on the film industry. It is certainly 
true that over 60% of small retail outlets in the United Kingdom, 
United States and selected European nations are owned by persons 
of Asian extraction, but in the first instance, many of them are 
our sworn enemies: the Moslems - and in the second instance, it 
is a total myth that those shops which are controlled by Hindus 
are part of a megalithic conspiracy.
  As to our alleged control of the mass media, it is common 
knowledge that in the 1940s this charge was levelled at the Jews 
and was routinely denounced by Jewish organisations as anti-
Semitism. If Jews are entitled to denounce their detractors as 
anti-Semites then it follows that Hindus must have the same 
right. Furthermore, it is only really in the past thirty years 
that Bollywood has taken over from Hollywood. If Hindus con-
trolled the media in the 1990s, why did so many newspapers, radio 
stations and TV channels pour scorn on the Hinducaust at the time 
the first Miracle was reported?
  Another persistent and wilful misrepresentation the Deniers are 
fond of throwing at us is the so-called admission by the Had 
Cashem Archive that more than half of its testimonies are unreli-
able. For Deniers this is further evidence of a colossal hoax. 
Yet the truth is that the very fact that so many of these testi-
monies are of doubtful value is further proof of the veracity of 
the Hinducaust. Why else would the Archive make such an admis-
sion? Isn't it obvious that if half the testimonies are admitted-
ly unreliable that the remainder must, by definition, be one 
hundred per cent authentic?
  It is correct that in recent years newly revealed documentation 
has allowed scholars to assess more precisely the number of 
genuine manifestations of the God Ganesh. It is also accurate 
that scholars have long written that despite Hinducaust rumours 
to the contrary, the British National Party did not build a gas 
chamber in their Welling Bunker. It is though manifestly not true 
that Court Historians - as the Deniers persist on calling them - 
are revising their ideas in response to the Deniers. If Hindu-
caust Denial has demonstrated anything, it is the fragility of 
unreason and dogma, and the necessity for even stronger and even 
more repressive anti-racist legislation to put Hindus above 
criticism, not only in Pakistan and the West, but throughout the 
entire world. (9) Who but a racist would suggest otherwise?


Notes And References


(1) $The men who whitewash Hitler$, by Gitta Sereny, published 
in the $New Statesman$, November 2, 1979, pages 670-3.
(2) $Holocaust Denial and the Compelling Force of Reason$, by 
Deborah Lipstadt, published in $Patterns Of Prejudice$, 1992, 
Volume 26, Numbers 1 & 2, pages 64-76. 
(3) $DENYING the HOLOCAUST: The Growing Assault on Truth and 
Memory$, by Deborah E. Lipstadt, published by the Free Press, 
New York, (1993).
(4) Any similarity between the previous passage and the introduc-
tion to $The men who whitewash Hitler$, by Gitta Sereny, pub-
lished in the $New Statesman$, November 2, 1979, is purely 
coincidental.
(5) In the original essay, Professor Cowpat uses a lowercase "d" 
in Deniers. We have altered this to uppercase solely to conform 
with the house style. Professor Cowpat claims to have coined the 
phrase Hinducaust Deniers. [Editor]
(6) Hinducaust Deniers often claim that because no Hindus were 
murdered during the $Glass Night$ that it is grammatically 
incorrect to use the word "exterminated" in this context. How-
ever, we would point out that Hindus have often been exterminated 
without being physically killed; the racist nature of the Den-
iers' rhetoric is too transparent to warrant serious discussion.
(7) Any similarity here between the alleged (and now admittedly 
fake) Dachau gas chambers and the so-called genuine Auschwitz gas 
chambers is purely coincidental.
(8) Some have suggested this to be a somewhat disingenuous claim 
in view of the "anti-hate" legislation that has been passed at 
the insistence of so many of her profession, but we cannot agree 
with that. Anyone who accuses any leading Hindu mystic of hypo-
crisy is obviously a closet racist.
(9) This does of course contradict Professor Cowpat's claim in 
her previous essay that "We are not, of course, suggesting that 
the Deniers should be muzzled..." But only a racist would be so 
tactless as to point that out. Heck, if you want logic and con-
sistency, study mathematics.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:23 PST 1996
Article: 22612 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ac.net!news.cais.net!xara.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron the Bigot
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:20:15 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <823353615snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823074827snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4euebr$kbc@news.enter.net>
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In article <4euebr$kbc@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >>>>
>         To my knowledge there is no law in Britain or elsewhere that forces you > to sit next to a black man on a train.  If you don't like the situation you may
>  get up 
> and move.  That is a far different situation from your position that the black
>  man 
> should be thrown in jail for daring to sit next to you.  Have you bothered to
>  read 
> "Plessy" yet?

There are laws which make it a criminal offence not to employ blacks, etc.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:24 PST 1996
Article: 22613 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ac.net!news.cais.net!xara.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stein's Holocaust Creed, where is it?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 96 13:23:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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Message-ID: <823353824snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4ensoi$a79@access2.digex.net>
           mstein@access2.digex.net "Michael P. Stein" writes:

>     Nothing has to be believed.  You may discuss anything.

Tell that to the Board of Deputies of "British" Jews and their fellow 
travellers - Jew and Gentile - who want it made a criminal offence to 
dispute their officially sanctioned lies. Tell it to Faurisson and others
who have been hounded for refusing to believe. If these people had
their way, the same position would prevail in the good ol' USA.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:24 PST 1996
Article: 22631 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 00:15:47 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <823220147snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4doqu1$7t2@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <822119991snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4dvfd8$12lc@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <822378336snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4ea3fo$1pqm@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <822714390snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4enil0$6tk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4enil0$6tk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> If you had a grasp of current academic discourse--and I don't fault
> you for this: you are not, after all, an academic

Academic discourse? There are two rules to this:

rule one: never say anything critical of Imperial Zion, like calling a Jew
 a liar (unless his name is David Cole) on pain of being smeared as anti-
Semitic.

rule two: if in doubt, refer to rule one.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb  4 07:00:25 PST 1996
Article: 22633 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron and the Babi-Yar Massacre (Re: NOT SAY ANYTHING TO T
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 00:21:36 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4emrcj$39l6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> In the interests of fairness, I have done Mr. Baron's work for him.  
> 
> Why the difference?  I don't know.  Two possibilities: (1) Hoefer saw the SS
> who administered the coup de grace to anyone who survived the initial
> fusillade and assumed there were only two executioners or (2) he did not
> clearly see to the bottom of the pit, which is where Kurt Werner was.

There is a third possibility; in the words of Josef Ginsberg: "It's all made up."

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Feb  6 14:03:47 PST 1996
Article: 22834 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AIR PHOTOS PROVE "GAS CHAMBERS" ARE PROPAGANDA LIES
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 00:50:59 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <823481459snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4f1fi5$22c@nimitz.fibr.net> hmazal@txdirect.net  writes:

>   Or perhaps they should have sent them to Egypt so they could run over
> defenseless Italians.

Oh boy, my father knocked an Italian off his bike in Italy. He said something
about the guy riding along holding out an umbrella - as they do there when 
it rains. That was the only person he killed in the war. How many British
servicemen did your father murder in Palestine?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Tue Feb  6 14:03:48 PST 1996
Article: 22835 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish arrogance - the real cause of "anti-Semitism"
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 00:48:11 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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Message-ID: <823481291snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4f1ffe$22c@nimitz.fibr.net> hmazal@txdirect.net  writes:

>  First it is Woburn House, now it is Furnival Street.
> 
> What on earth can Mr. Baron be talking about?

Woburn House - the Board of Deputies of "British" Jews - the people who have
been feeding you the lies and innuendo you have parrotted here. As if you 
didn't know.

Furnival Street - the un-Jewish Chronicle.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb  8 17:09:02 PST 1996
Article: 23052 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AIR PHOTOS PROVE "GAS CHAMBERS" ARE PROPAGANDA LIES
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 00:27:52 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <823652872snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4f6qre$rbl@nimitz.fibr.net> hmazal@txdirect.net  writes:

> On the other hand, how many people has Mr. Baron beat up
> on to the point that British Law had to intervene?

Oh dear, this sounds like "Baron has several convictions for political 
violence"; this one comes from the same source as the claim that my friend
Mark Taha indecently assaults ten year old Asian boys. Nothing can be done
about these lies since they did not materialise in print. However, others have.
Watch out for my next press release Harry. I have to clear it with my lawyer
first but it will be worth waiting for.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb  8 17:09:03 PST 1996
Article: 23053 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: New Nizkor Feature: Fallacies
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 00:41:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <823653705snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article 
           jamie@voyager.net "Jamie McCarthy" writes:

> I am pleased to announce Nizkor's latest Feature.
> 
> Our Fallacies collection is taken from an existing software program

How about this one: Leuchter was paid by Zundel; Zundel is a Nazi; therefore
Leuchter's report doesn't count.

Pressac is paid by the Klarsfeld Foundation which is heavily funded by Jewish
money, therefore Leuchter is a Nazi.



-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb  9 18:45:07 PST 1996
Article: 23168 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.luc.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron the Bigot
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 22:11:23 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <823817483snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> 
> And which laws would these be, specifically? 
> 
> Mark

In 1986 a firm named Edgar Clewes placed an advertisement in a newspaper for
staff "must live locally". It was warned that it could be in breach of the Race
Relations Act because not many blacks and Asians lived in the area.

One of the first cases referred under the 1st race act was of a doctor in
Brighton who advertised for a Scottish cook (who could cook porridge). Another
was the case of a Pakistani who advertised for an English lodger (to teach his
children to speak English). There is all manner of this madness. The worst case
was the man who advertised his house for sale "to an English family only" - as
a protest (the well-known bigot Robert Relf). The race board took out an 
injunction to make him take down the notice and when he refused he was gaoled
for contempt of court. I'm sure that even Yale the Wail will agree that drives
a bus through the rule of law.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb  9 18:45:08 PST 1996
Article: 23169 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.luc.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 00:17:46 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <823825066snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article 
           mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU "Marty Kelley" writes:

> Interesting that you find it necessary to use that term "co-racialist," 
> Mr. Baron.  It sort of sounds like you think all or most Jews think 
> alike.  

Unfortunately, the ones who have the power do.

>As to the matter of the Protocols: I'll have to look at Lipstadt 
> again, but I don't think she charges all Holocaust deniers with believing 
> that the Protocols are real; as I recall, she simply points out that 
> several of the earliest proponents of Holocaust "revisionism" believed 
> the Protocols

Such as? 

> and that several publishing houses which push Revisionist 
> books, notably Willis Carto's Noontide Press, also sell the Protocols and 
> other discredited lies.  

That is Willis Carto's problem; Revisionists have been frozen out so they
take whatever platforms they can get. There are plenty of people who believe
in both the Protocols and gassings.

>She also notes that many deniers' "theories" 
> share paranoid, stereotypical thinking that is similar to that found in 
> the Protocols.

Revisionists have a right to be paranoid. What was it Woody Allen said? They
really are out to get you.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb  9 18:45:09 PST 1996
Article: 23170 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.luc.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 00:20:31 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         My copy of the Protocols bears the imprint of the "Noontide Press" 
> (the publishing arm of the Institute for Ahistorical Research) and there is no 
> indication -- in the way of preface or notes -- that they consider it a
>  forgery.  

The Institute for Historical what?

> will you answer the *original* question which was not about the Protocols -- a 
> tangent which you inroduced -- but why the revisionazis like you beleive in an 
> International Jewish Conspiracy almost to a man.


Conspiracy = a combination of persons for an evil or illegal purpose. Yes,
I believe there are lots of those, some of them international in scope, and 
some controlled by Jews. Don't you?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 10 12:41:45 PST 1996
Article: 23224 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NY Times letter
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 20:39:29 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <823898369snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4e4gsr$8lm@zippy.cais.net> <24JAN199620383734@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4eipfp$492@zippy.cais.net> <4fdkb2$fb7@shiva.usa.net>
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In article <4fdkb2$fb7@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:

> 
> When Israel was the only ally America had in the Middle East and the
> Soviet Union was still a threat and dominant presence in the Middle
> East, the Times supported Israel and printed pro-Israel letters.


Mr Katz parrots the Israel is the great ally of the US crap. Tell that
to the crew of the U.S.S. Liberty. The only reason Israel has enjoyed
such virtually unconditional support of the US is because of the wailing
and gnashing of teeth Zionist lobby, and, I would suggest, the main reason
that support is waning is because the Arab lobby is learning to wail every
bit as loudly and lobby every bit as effectively as the servants of 
Imperial Zion. Mind you, they have had rather more to wail about these past 
50 years.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 11 08:09:24 PST 1996
Article: 23329 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Kramer's order
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 23:16:13 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <823994173snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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On page 149 of the 1959 edition of her book FIVE CHIMNEYS, Auschwitz survivor
Olga Lengyel reports that Kramer issued a signed order for the liquidation of
the Auschwitz camp. If this order can be found and authenticated, I will 
accept this as prima facie evidence of Kramer's involvement in an extermination
programme. Can anyone tell me where I can find it?

Thank you.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 05:11:53 PST 1996
Article: 23361 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:41:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> So you don't believe in an International Jewish Conspiracy; you believe in a
> variety of conspiracies, some international, some involving Jews.  Is that
> it?

I believe that Organised Jewry operate the same way most other lobbies do, 
but far more effectively and ruthlessly. What they do is pull wires behind the 
scenes, smear people left, right and centre, and when they're caught at it,
they scream ANTI-SEMITIC. Most people who use the word conspiracy in this
context are really referring to dirty tricks, smears and the like. What they
do though is claim that anyone who accuses any Jewish organisation(s) of being
out to get them of being part and parcel of a Protocols-type conspiracy. From
that point of view, the Protocols is a very convenient document.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 05:11:54 PST 1996
Article: 23362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Universal Truth: Installment One
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:46:37 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <824031997snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4fdt39$5i3@curly.cc.emory.edu> <4fgm03$521g@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <311cd482.9085199@news.pacificnet.net> <4fj0vs$r28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <4fj0vs$r28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> In article <311cd482.9085199@news.pacificnet.net>, 
> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> 
> >>I don't know about the logical fallacy, but I see a universal truth. 
> >>Deniers are frauds and idiots.
> 
> >       "A universal truth". Now that is awesome. Do you have any
> >supporting material?

A universal truth is one that is true by definition. If you claim that 
Revisionists are liars, frauds and idiots by definition then obviously
we have nothing to discuss. We must therefore accept that you are lost to
us and try to reach those who are not, and we must of course oppose any
schemes by you and your kind to silence us.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 11:49:34 PST 1996
Article: 23361 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:41:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> So you don't believe in an International Jewish Conspiracy; you believe in a
> variety of conspiracies, some international, some involving Jews.  Is that
> it?

I believe that Organised Jewry operate the same way most other lobbies do, 
but far more effectively and ruthlessly. What they do is pull wires behind the 
scenes, smear people left, right and centre, and when they're caught at it,
they scream ANTI-SEMITIC. Most people who use the word conspiracy in this
context are really referring to dirty tricks, smears and the like. What they
do though is claim that anyone who accuses any Jewish organisation(s) of being
out to get them of being part and parcel of a Protocols-type conspiracy. From
that point of view, the Protocols is a very convenient document.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 11:49:35 PST 1996
Article: 23362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Universal Truth: Installment One
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:46:37 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <824031997snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4fdt39$5i3@curly.cc.emory.edu> <4fgm03$521g@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <311cd482.9085199@news.pacificnet.net> <4fj0vs$r28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fj0vs$r28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> In article <311cd482.9085199@news.pacificnet.net>, 
> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> 
> >>I don't know about the logical fallacy, but I see a universal truth. 
> >>Deniers are frauds and idiots.
> 
> >       "A universal truth". Now that is awesome. Do you have any
> >supporting material?

A universal truth is one that is true by definition. If you claim that 
Revisionists are liars, frauds and idiots by definition then obviously
we have nothing to discuss. We must therefore accept that you are lost to
us and try to reach those who are not, and we must of course oppose any
schemes by you and your kind to silence us.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 11:49:35 PST 1996
Article: 23412 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news2.mr.net!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:42:29 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Try to stick to the question, Al.  You asked for one scholarly work, with
> footnotes, wherein the author accepts the validity of the Protocols.  I
> pointed out that you were barking up the wrong tree.  None of us claims that
> "scholarly revisionists" believe the Protocols, they simply *use* them to
> foment hatred and to try to "prove" that there is a world Jewish conspiracy.

Again, I know of no scholarly Revisionist who pays any attention to the Protocols
except as anti-Semitica. My own view is that the Protocols is less an anti-
Semitic document than a mystical one, but then I've done more research on them
than most.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 17:22:23 PST 1996
Article: 23361 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:41:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> So you don't believe in an International Jewish Conspiracy; you believe in a
> variety of conspiracies, some international, some involving Jews.  Is that
> it?

I believe that Organised Jewry operate the same way most other lobbies do, 
but far more effectively and ruthlessly. What they do is pull wires behind the 
scenes, smear people left, right and centre, and when they're caught at it,
they scream ANTI-SEMITIC. Most people who use the word conspiracy in this
context are really referring to dirty tricks, smears and the like. What they
do though is claim that anyone who accuses any Jewish organisation(s) of being
out to get them of being part and parcel of a Protocols-type conspiracy. From
that point of view, the Protocols is a very convenient document.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 17:22:24 PST 1996
Article: 23362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Universal Truth: Installment One
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:46:37 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <824031997snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4fdt39$5i3@curly.cc.emory.edu> <4fgm03$521g@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <311cd482.9085199@news.pacificnet.net> <4fj0vs$r28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fj0vs$r28@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> In article <311cd482.9085199@news.pacificnet.net>, 
> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> 
> >>I don't know about the logical fallacy, but I see a universal truth. 
> >>Deniers are frauds and idiots.
> 
> >       "A universal truth". Now that is awesome. Do you have any
> >supporting material?

A universal truth is one that is true by definition. If you claim that 
Revisionists are liars, frauds and idiots by definition then obviously
we have nothing to discuss. We must therefore accept that you are lost to
us and try to reach those who are not, and we must of course oppose any
schemes by you and your kind to silence us.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 12 17:22:25 PST 1996
Article: 23412 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news2.mr.net!mr.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 09:42:29 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Try to stick to the question, Al.  You asked for one scholarly work, with
> footnotes, wherein the author accepts the validity of the Protocols.  I
> pointed out that you were barking up the wrong tree.  None of us claims that
> "scholarly revisionists" believe the Protocols, they simply *use* them to
> foment hatred and to try to "prove" that there is a world Jewish conspiracy.

Again, I know of no scholarly Revisionist who pays any attention to the Protocols
except as anti-Semitica. My own view is that the Protocols is less an anti-
Semitic document than a mystical one, but then I've done more research on them
than most.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 14 07:35:03 PST 1996
Article: 23552 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NY Times letter
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:43:31 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <824204611snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4foml2$eve@shiva.usa.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4foml2$eve@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:
> 
> By the way, I never said Israel is a "great ally" of America.  I only
> said that for a long time it was America's only ally in the area.

With allies like that, who needs enemies? The fact that this totally partisan
support has alienated a substantial tranche of mankind - the Islamic bloc -
might just be construed by the fair-minded as not worth the candle.


> Mr. Baron parrots the people-feel-sorry-for-Jews crap!  

Certainly Jews feel sorry for Jews, as they never tire of telling us.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 14 07:35:04 PST 1996
Article: 23553 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:50:43 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <824205043snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4doqu1$7t2@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <4etr0p$etr@delphi.cs.ucla.edu>  <823407043snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article 
           cendbj@bonaly.hw.ac.uk "David Johnston" writes:

> >Unfortunately, the ones who have the power do.
> 
> Who are they, then? Who are these shadowy people who you and hundreds of 
> other assorted loonies and losers think control the world? Why don't you name 
> names

The Board of Deputies of British Jews "defence committee"
The Institute of Jewish Affairs
The ADL
to some extent (but not for much longer thanks to yours truly) the Searchlight
Organisation
The Wiesenthal Center
The South African Board of Jewish Deputies
The American-Israel Public Affairs Committee.

If you read anti-Zionist literature, including by Jewish anti-Zionists, you
will see that as far as the Middle East is concerned they say exactly the
same things. When it comes to anything else though they are deaf, mute and
blind.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 14 07:35:05 PST 1996
Article: 23554 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:53:34 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <824205214snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fog0e$t1p@news.enter.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fog0e$t1p@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         Like those vicious memebers of the ADL who conspired to have 
> Cristine Jeffries fired from her university position for teaching revisionism?

Take that up with Mike Stein, unlike you he is an honest man; he has also seen
the document on which this claim was based.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 14 07:35:05 PST 1996
Article: 23555 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:52:49 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <824205169snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fofs3$t1p@news.enter.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fofs3$t1p@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         Then again, you are writng from the presective of an anti-Semite.  
> Had you really done any research on the Protocols you would know that they 
> were forged specifically as a propaganda justification for the progroms of the 
> Black Hundreds.


Not so, Nilus probably believed in all this crap the same way you believe
all Jews are lovely Jews like you. The best evidence suggests they originated
with the overseas branch of the Ochkrana, which was not exactly the Black
Hundreds.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 14 07:35:06 PST 1996
Article: 23556 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron and the Babi-Yar Massacre (Re: NOT SAY ANYTHING TO T
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 09:56:28 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <824205388snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823817222snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fmdvo$il0@news.enter.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fmdvo$il0@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         As I stated in my post it was republished in Dawidowicz's collected 
> essays "What is the Use of Jewish History?"  What was that not sufficient?

Thanks, I missed it.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 18:16:17 PST 1996
Article: 23702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 00:56:02 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <824259362snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Who is "organized Jewry"?  I have never heard of that organization.  Who are
> its leaders?  Where are they to be found?

A good place to start would be the Op-Ed placed in the New York Times for 
Sunday, 6th February 1994; this clarification of Torah doctrine by a group
of distinguished Rabbis condemned the machinations of "Organized Jewry".

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 18:16:18 PST 1996
Article: 23703 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 00:57:06 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <824259426snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3d8$39hk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4fp3d8$39hk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Then we agree that no serious scholar, pro- or anti-"revisionist" accepts
> the Protocols as anything other than the forgery they are?

I thought you were stating the opposite; you appear to be agreeing with me.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 18:16:18 PST 1996
Article: 23704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: New Nizkor Feature: Fallacies
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 00:53:56 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <824259236snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <823653705snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> How about Al Baron is paid by the British legal system, which is funded by
> the Queen's subjects, therefore Al Baron is a Socialist? 

How about Al Baron was paid several thousands of pounds by private businesses:
bookshops and the like?


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 18:17:47 PST 1996
Article: 23702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 00:56:02 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <824259362snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Who is "organized Jewry"?  I have never heard of that organization.  Who are
> its leaders?  Where are they to be found?

A good place to start would be the Op-Ed placed in the New York Times for 
Sunday, 6th February 1994; this clarification of Torah doctrine by a group
of distinguished Rabbis condemned the machinations of "Organized Jewry".

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 15 18:17:47 PST 1996
Article: 23703 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 96 00:57:06 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <824259426snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3d8$39hk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4fp3d8$39hk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Then we agree that no serious scholar, pro- or anti-"revisionist" accepts
> the Protocols as anything other than the forgery they are?

I thought you were stating the opposite; you appear to be agreeing with me.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 16 20:24:49 PST 1996
Article: 23798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 00:51:06 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <824431866snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824205169snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4frr4a$hg0@news.enter.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4frr4a$hg0@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         And, other than your fertile imagination, do you have a source for
>  this? 

Try Cohn.

>  When you are done with that please try reading what I wrote.  I realize that 
> reading with comprehension is a difficult task for you, Lyin' Al (as proven by
>  your 
> version of the Plessy case), but, for once, just try.  I did not say that the 
> Protocols were forged by the Black Hundreds but was forged to provide a 
> propaganda justification for their progroms.

The Tsar himself is said to have disownedthe Protocols. You never did answer
my ten questions or so about "discrimination" did you Yale the Wail? In particular,
do you feel outraged that if you tried to use a female toilet you would be 
arrested?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 16 20:24:50 PST 1996
Article: 23799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac -  Salmen Lewenthal's manuscript]
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 00:52:55 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <824431975snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <311DB32C.7A80@kaiwan.com> <4flrpt$op9@mn5.swip.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4flrpt$op9@mn5.swip.net>
           stephane.bruchfeld@mailbox.swipnet.se "Stephane Bruchfeld" writes:

> "Old age"? This is "revisionist" stand-up "comedy", right? How
> many typhus epidemics were there all in all and during what
> periods? And how many died of typhus in Auschwitz? See my sig
> Mr. Raven, maybe Mr. Weber can translate it for you. It's in
> German.

Something like 3 million people died in Eastern Europe from typhus in the
period 1917-20. 

>The essence of Nazism is murdering those that have no
> place in the Nazi utopia.

That is actually the essence of communism.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 17 09:34:52 PST 1996
Article: 23798 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 00:51:06 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <824431866snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824205169snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4frr4a$hg0@news.enter.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4frr4a$hg0@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         And, other than your fertile imagination, do you have a source for
>  this? 

Try Cohn.

>  When you are done with that please try reading what I wrote.  I realize that 
> reading with comprehension is a difficult task for you, Lyin' Al (as proven by
>  your 
> version of the Plessy case), but, for once, just try.  I did not say that the 
> Protocols were forged by the Black Hundreds but was forged to provide a 
> propaganda justification for their progroms.

The Tsar himself is said to have disownedthe Protocols. You never did answer
my ten questions or so about "discrimination" did you Yale the Wail? In particular,
do you feel outraged that if you tried to use a female toilet you would be 
arrested?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 17 09:34:53 PST 1996
Article: 23799 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac -  Salmen Lewenthal's manuscript]
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 00:52:55 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <824431975snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <311DB32C.7A80@kaiwan.com> <4flrpt$op9@mn5.swip.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4flrpt$op9@mn5.swip.net>
           stephane.bruchfeld@mailbox.swipnet.se "Stephane Bruchfeld" writes:

> "Old age"? This is "revisionist" stand-up "comedy", right? How
> many typhus epidemics were there all in all and during what
> periods? And how many died of typhus in Auschwitz? See my sig
> Mr. Raven, maybe Mr. Weber can translate it for you. It's in
> German.

Something like 3 million people died in Eastern Europe from typhus in the
period 1917-20. 

>The essence of Nazism is murdering those that have no
> place in the Nazi utopia.

That is actually the essence of communism.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 17 09:34:53 PST 1996
Article: 23870 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!gatech!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where is this document?
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 96 01:03:08 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In her book FIVE CHIMNEYS, Auschwitz survivor Olga Lengyel reports that 
Kramer gave a written order for the liquidation of the camp. Where is that
order, gentlemen? What happened to it? I await your explanation.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:36:57 PST 1996
Article: 24109 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron the Bigot
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 96 00:23:33 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <824516613snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823074827snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4euebr$kbc@news.enter.net> <823353615snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <823817483snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> Stop squirming like a bug on a pin, Al, and just answer the question:
> Which laws would these be, specifically? 

The Race Relations Act makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of 
race in employment - with certain designated exceptions. However, that is not
the end of the matter, the so-called Commission for Racial Equality has
Draconian powers and has brought cases against many employers for the 
most nebulous of reasons. This amounts to state sponsored harassment and
has often led to firms being penalised thousands of pounds. The burden of 
proof is, in practice, on the accused. This "anti-discrimination" nonsense
is being extended from race to many other fields.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:36:58 PST 1996
Article: 24110 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron backs down
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 96 00:26:07 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <824516767snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824153224snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g15ao$4el@nimitz.fibr.net>
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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In article <4g15ao$4el@nimitz.fibr.net> hmazal@txdirect.net  writes:

> Absolute balderdash.  The reasons for Mr. Baron't refusal to keep his
> promise have nothing to do with any 'complex legal reasons.' In a few
> days he will tell us something else. 

I'm afraid not; I am told that the press release I was going to issue would 
be a contempt of court. 
 
> Mr. Baron's attempts at cynical humor are beneath the dignity of the 
> viewers of this newsgroup.  Rather than make such statements, Mr.
> Baron ought to inform us the result of his lawsuit against decent and
> upright men.  

Better still Mr Mazal, why don't you drop Mr Gable an E-mail and ask him about
the result of these lawsuits, in particular against IS Books, Russell Press and
Central Books? I can't do that myself, if I send him an E-mail I will be in
contempt of court!!!

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:36:59 PST 1996
Article: 24195 of alt.revisionism
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From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 01:25:19 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <824606719snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3d8$39hk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824259426snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4lep$211a@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4g4lep$211a@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> We agree that no serious scholar accepts the Protocols as anything other
> than a forgery.  Do you also agree that many "revisionists" try to pretend
> they are real, and that they stand for a Jewish-inspired plot to take over
> the world?

I have never met or debated with any Revisionist who gives them any credit
at all although I have met one or two people who are not Revisionists who 
ask "Are they genuine?" I think that is a valid question. Most people nowadays
have never seen a copy of the Protocols and don't know what the hell they
are.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:37:00 PST 1996
Article: 24210 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 01:39:42 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <824607582snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Alexander Baron  wrote:
> 
> 
> >In her book FIVE CHIMNEYS, Auschwitz survivor Olga Lengyel reports that 
> >Kramer gave a written order for the liquidation of the camp. Where is that
> >order, gentlemen? What happened to it? I await your explanation.
> 
> Sorry. No fish today.

Then perhaps Dan Keren would like to answer. Where is this document Dan? What
I don't want is a lot of blather about how the Holocaust doesn't stand or fall
on the testimony of this eyewitness. What I do want is an explanation. What
happened to it, how did she know it existed, when and where did she see it,
in what archive was it recorded, etc.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:37:00 PST 1996
Article: 24211 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.amer.ican,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.black,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: AIR PHOTOS PROVE "GAS CHAMBERS" ARE PROPAGANDA LIES
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 01:41:04 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <824607664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <31256165.47C7@niven.imsweb.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:33281 alt.revisionism:24211 alt.politics.white-power:19225 alt.politics.nationalism.white:14103 alt.discrimination:43173

In article <31256165.47C7@niven.imsweb.net>
           budwrite@niven.imsweb.net "Bud" writes:

> This problem of inhumanity is not singular to the Nazis and their 
> treatment of Jews, and especially in wartime!  Are you unaware of the 
> many crimes against humanity by the allies during the Second World War?  
> And in Viet Nam, where entire villages of men, women and children were 
> murdered?  War is a nasty business, and the object is to win and you do 
> so by killing your enemies.  The allies knew this too, and the only 
> reason there is more claims of brutality attached to the Germans is 
> because they lost the war.  Also, while it is true that the Germans 
> obviously singled out the Jews for more than their share of persecution, 
> the same can be said of some regimes towards Christians, Moslems, etc. 
> Etc.  However, I object to and do not agree with this prevailing idea 
> that the suffering of any one group should be the icon for the suffering 
> of all of them.  When are we going to begin espousing and lamenting the 
> torture and death of millions of Christians in the media, and on 
> newsgroups?  (more to come, when I have time)

A very good answer. Thanks a lot. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:37:01 PST 1996
Article: 24212 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 01:23:37 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <824606617snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824259362snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4led$48p6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4g4led$48p6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> >A good place to start would be the Op-Ed placed in the New York Times for
> >Sunday, 6th February 1994; this clarification of Torah doctrine by a
> >group of distinguished Rabbis condemned the machinations of "Organized
> >Jewry".
> 
> Is this the group you oppose?  I do not remember that piece condemning
> organized Jewry.

No, this is not the group I opppose, this is the men in black hats and
caftans who placed an ad in this paper condemning Zionism. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:37:02 PST 1996
Article: 24213 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac -  Salmen Lewenthal's manuscript]
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 01:33:07 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <824607187snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824431975snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g51bv$1sp@news.enter.net>
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In article <4g51bv$1sp@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:


> Since Lyin' Al gives (as usual) no reference for his factiod.

Yale the Wail can't open his mouth without saying something unpleasant. Could
this be the source of the all-pervasive anti-Semitism he constantly complains
about?

  I
>  will.  The 
> classic study of the history of typhus is  the classic "Rats, Lice, and
>  History" by 
> Hans Zinsser (first published in 1934; it's still in print.  My page references
>  are to 

That's my source too, a more recent edition.

>         If Lyin' Al were to attempt to support his insupportable thesis that
>  the 
> typhus in the camps was unavoidable he would, if in the unlikely event he would > attempt to answer the question directly, have to explain how the Nazis seemed 
> to forget how to take precautions against it.  Not only did these 
> precautions work in 1917-1918 when conditions in Germany were 
> similar to those in 1944 but there was an increase in knowledge and 
> technology (substantially due to the work of Zinsser) in the interim.  Perhaps
>  he 
> would tell us that aphasia is a side effect of adopting the nazi philosophy?

Yale the Wail is using a rolled-up plea here: a) the Nazis "gassed" Jews but 
b) if they didn't then they let them die of typhus wilfully. What he overlooks
of course is the fact that many Nazis also caught typhus in the camps. Dr 
Mengele himself is said to have caught it. Obviously the Nazis didn't WANT
there to be typhus in the camps. If though Yale the Wail dips into Garlinski's
FIGHTING AUSCHWITZ he may find another reason for the spread of this terrible
disease. According to this study, the "resistance" in Auschwitz actually bred
typhus lice and used it to murder SS men. If this claim is false then this is
yet another example of lies about the camps by survivors. If on the other 
hand it is true then it raises the question: "Shouldn't a few inmates, 
including Jews, have been in the dock at the Frankfort Auschwitz trial?"

Heads I win Yale, tails you lose. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 19 08:37:03 PST 1996
Article: 24214 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 01:44:25 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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In article <4g4r7f$1ks@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >  The Tsar himself is said to have disownedthe Protocols.
> 
>         Said by who?  Cohn?

Try Cohn. Try also the article in History Today by Christopher Sykes in 1967.
Sykes also produced a radio programme on the Protocols.

> 
> > You never did answer
> >  my ten questions or so about "discrimination" did you Yale the Wail? In > 
> particular,
> >  do you feel outraged that if you tried to use a female toilet you would be 
> >  arrested?
> 
>         I did answer your silly questions, Lyin' Al.  My answer to that bit of 
> idiocy was that it was idiotic.  Please show me where any such law has been 
> written or any such arrest has ever been made.  Now tell us why you openly 
> advocate having a Black man arrested for sitting next to a white man on a train.> >  

I didn't say that at all; what I did ask was would a white man have been 
arrested for travelling in the black compartment? And would you be arrested
for using a women's toilet? And would you consider an affirmative answer to
the latter - especially - to be a denial of your human dignity?

I notice too that you spelt Black man with a capital and white man with
lower case. Could that be a Freudian slip, a subconscious expression of the
hatred of the society you hold responsible for the Holocaust? What conclusion
would you draw if I were to spell Jew with a small j?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 22 12:12:56 PST 1996
Article: 24557 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al Weasels Again
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 13:54:14 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 49
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In article <4g8s28$la1@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:
>         There was no "more recent edition"  In the creatively editing you did
>  of 
> my post -- lying again Lyin' Al -- I noted that my references were to the
>  *current* 
> edition.  BTW Zinsser never updated his book so the edition is irrelevant.


Rats, Lice & History: THE BIOGRAPHY of a BACILLUS, by Hans Zinsser, 
published by Papermac, London, (1985).



>Not only did these 
> >  > precautions work in 1917-1918 when conditions in Germany were 
> >  > similar to those in 1944 but there was an increase in knowledge and 


There was very little typhus in Germany but a great deal in the East. I find 
your claim that the Nazis didn't give a fuck about typhus in the camps to be 
ludicrous in the extreme. Certainly the Nazis who worked in the camps would 
have, unless they wanted to die from it too.

>         Note that Lyin' Al still does not tell us how many cases of typhus
>  there 
> were.

Do you?
 
> >What he overlooks
> >  of course is the fact that many Nazis also caught typhus in the camps. Dr 
> >  Mengele himself is said to have caught it.
> 
>         Source please.

You're saying they didn't? Olga - Kramer ordered the camp liquidated - Lengyel
mentions that Mengele himself caught it. I think if you look through the 
Belsen Trial you'll find references to it too. Check out Garlinski like 
I said then answer my question: should some inmates also have been in the 
dock at the Frankfort trial?


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 22 23:06:44 PST 1996
Article: 24628 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:36:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <824953004snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4g82ek$460@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>
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In article <4g82ek$460@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> John Morris (jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) wrote:
> : Alexander Baron  wrote:
> 
> 
> : >In her book FIVE CHIMNEYS, Auschwitz survivor Olga Lengyel reports that 
> : >Kramer gave a written order for the liquidation of the camp. Where is that
> : >order, gentlemen? What happened to it? I await your explanation.
> 
> : Sorry. No fish today.
> 
> And we have no bananas today, Baron you big ape.


How about answering the question, John?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 22 23:06:44 PST 1996
Article: 24629 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Deschene
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:46:32 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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Message-ID: <824953592snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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Many thanks for the guy who posted the Deschene report. I've had a good
look at this study now and it is very impressive. If anti-Semitism is such
a terrible crime, then false allegations should be proportionately terrible.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 07:11:58 PST 1996
Article: 24653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!news2.interlog.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 13:27:26 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <824909246snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> Who is "organized Jewry"?  I have never heard of that organization.  Who are
> its leaders?  Where are they to be found?

Here we go again. Where is the green movement, the far right, the New Age
Movement, organised labour? Where are their leaders, do they not exist?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 07:11:59 PST 1996
Article: 24654 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!news2.interlog.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Raven and the Nuremberg Law (Re: Graves Beats a Dead H
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 13:43:22 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <824910202snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4fp3gk$3rta@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> On example was the part of the Nuremberg Laws calling for the execution of
> Jews who had had sexual intercourse with an "Aryan".  Do you think Jews and
> Jewish groups supported that provision?


I know William Pierce does!

What you are saying in effect is that you do not object to laws against
miscegenation but think that the punishment is too harsh?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 07:12:00 PST 1996
Article: 24655 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!news2.interlog.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 13:31:40 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <824909500snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <824607582snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> Have no idea; never heard of it. I certainly never claimed to
> know about each and every Holocaust-related document. I am
> not a professional historian, but a mathematician/computer
> scientist; and I don't believe even a professional historian
> would know about each and every document.
> 
> If Alex wants documents about Nazi mass murder by gassing and
> shooting, they are posted here practically every day, and there
> are also picture files of them in a web site, as well as
> other photos he may enjoy looking at.

No Dan, I want to know about THIS particular document. You told me that 
you had never read or seen a patently false testimony. No such document
as this was adduced at the Belsen trial, I have never seen it mentioned
anywhere else.  I want some evidence that it existed. If you cannot adduce
this then you will have to adduce that Mrs Lengyel was gilding the lily,
ie that she lied about this document. She claimed it existed yet had no
meaningful evidence that it did.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 23:33:36 PST 1996
Article: 24765 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:37:57 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <824953077snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <824607582snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g9lh2$mmk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4g9lh2$mmk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:
> 
> >Then perhaps Dan Keren would like to answer. Where is this document Dan? What
> >I don't want is a lot of blather about how the Holocaust doesn't stand or fall
> >on the testimony of this eyewitness. What I do want is an explanation. What
> >happened to it, how did she know it existed, when and where did she see it,
> >in what archive was it recorded, etc.
> 
> Why? So you can bore us all to tears for months on end the way
> you did with your classic misreading of Kitty Hart's text? Have
> you gotten tired of whittering away in the racist threads?
> 
> If you think you've got something, quit fucking around with the
> baiting and trolling and post it.

I have evidence that Lengyel, an apparently important eyewitness (whose
testimony was endorse by Einstein of all people) has gilded the lily.
Did this document exist or not, John?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 23:33:37 PST 1996
Article: 24807 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:33:45 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <824952825snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4doqu1$7t2@pelican.cs.ucla.edu> <4etr0p$etr@delphi.cs.ucla.edu> <824205043snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article 
           cendbj@bonaly.hw.ac.uk "David Johnston" writes:

> 
> >The Board of Deputies of British Jews "defence committee"
> >The Institute of Jewish Affairs
> >The ADL
> >to some extent (but not for much longer thanks to yours truly) the Searchlight
> >Organisation
> >The Wiesenthal Center
> >The South African Board of Jewish Deputies
> >The American-Israel Public Affairs Committee.
> 
> OK, now you've named organisations. Can you tell me, precisely rather than 
> vaguely, exactly what influence they have over me and 55 million other people 
> in this country? Do they control the press? Parliament? The Royal family? 
> The banks? In what way do they control the USA? The World? Come on, Baron, you 
> seem to know, so why not tell us, you paranoid idiot?

You really are a prize arsehole Johnson. Read the Board of Deputies' annual
reports, particularly for 1989-90. They're quite candid about their power and
influence over "race relations" legislation.

The South African Deputies succeeded in banning Holocaust Revisionism in
"racist" South Africa. And they did it by lying through their teeth. Mike 
Stein has the proof.

The ADL was found in 1993 to hold files on 12,000 individuals and 800
organisations and to have subverted law enforcement agencies.

The Wiesenthal Center is so over the top that even many Jewish organisations 
have condemned its methods.

The power of AIPAC has been thoroughly documented.

I never said these organisations controlled the banks or the world; your
sarcastic jibe is simple another attempt to write me off as a crazy, and 
to crawl up the arses of the Jewish organisations which monitor this 
newsgroup.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 23:33:38 PST 1996
Article: 24808 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac -  Salmen Lewenthal's manuscript]
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 96 01:36:16 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <824952976snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824431975snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g51bv$1sp@news.enter.net> <824607187snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> # According to this study, the "resistance" in Auschwitz actually bred
> # typhus lice and used it to murder SS men. 
>  
> Interesting, I never heard of it.

Like I said, try Garlinski.

> # If this claim is false then this is yet another example of lies
> # about the camps by survivors. If on the other hand it is true then
> # it raises the question: "Shouldn't a few inmates, including Jews, 
> # have been in the dock at the Frankfort Auschwitz trial?
>  
> Alex Baron now wants to put inmates who killed Nazis on trial!?

Sauce for the goose. According to one testimony - in Garlinski, I think -
an SS man was infected but his wife died. For the record Dan, do you think
it was fair game to murder Nazis in cold blood?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:40 PST 1996
Article: 24904 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 03:52:51 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <825047571snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <823568568snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fab3h$46o@news.enter.net> <823825231snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fiklo$38co@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031664snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3cf$3m1c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824259362snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> 
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In article 
           cendbj@bonaly.hw.ac.uk "David Johnston" writes:

> >Is this the group you oppose?  I do not remember that piece condemning
> >organized Jewry.
> 
> I think what he was trying to say is that there is no such thing as organised 
> Jewry, so he can't tell you who its "leaders" are, but he's a paranoid loser 
> who needs somebody to blame. 
> 

It may take a little while yet due to technical difficulties, but bear in
mind David that I've got a big surprise coming for you. Keep making all the
right noises about those poor, persecuted, powerless people. You'll see how
powerless they are if you ever say something that upsets them. Like "Stop
shooting those Palestinians".

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:41 PST 1996
Article: 24905 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 20:01:16 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <825105676snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824909991snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4ggl1s$vk@news.enter.net>
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In article <4ggl1s$vk@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> >  
> >  If you were to enter a women's toilet in Britain you would be charged with 
> >  a public order offence, probably acting in a manner likely to cause a breach
> >  of the peace.
> >
>         Says who?  You?  Please give me the details of any such arrests being 
> made.

Why don't you try it and find out, arsehole?

> 
>         That is not true.  What you did is told us that Plessy (which you 
> apparently never read) was good law.  That is what Plessy stated.

I have read Plessy, and Harlan's dissent; it is in a book called "The American
Negro".

> 
> >I said the law is sound if it 
> >  applies equally to whites and blacks. Ie if a white man can be arrested for
> >  travelling in a black compartment. Plessy was actually more white than black
> >  but that's a technical matter.
> >  
>         In other words, you approve of laws which state I cannot sit next to a 
> person who I wish to sit next to on a train.  You are one hell of a libertarian
>  Lyin' 


I said the law is sound, ie that it doesn't involve any abrogation of human
rights in the sense that "racism" suggests. It does abrogate individual rights,
but as it abrogates all individuals' rights it does not discriminate. In Britain
and in America if you use crack, heroin or whatever, you can be arrested and
gaoled, and it doesn't matter if you are black or white (although if you're
rich and have a good lawyer - like OJ you might get off). In my view - and in 
any Libertarian's view, a law that criminalises personal drug use should be
repealed, but even though this is a "bad law", it is not bad law in the sense
that it violates one group's rights and not another's. If a law made it a crime
for a black man or a white man to use crack, but not vice versa, then that 
WOULD be discrimination.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:41 PST 1996
Article: 24906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Germany must perish"
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 03:57:03 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <825047823snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <00002fc9+00007646@msn.com> <824432312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gd612$2jf@shiva.usa.net> <4gdhtu$a5j@wi.combase.com> 
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
> 
> # I don't remember the same kind of portrayal when the Liberty
> # was sunk.  
> 
> Are you comparing the IDF attack on the Liberty - a tragic
> mistake that happened during a war - to the attack on Pearl 
> Harbor?

Heck Dan, that was one hell of a mistake. Michael Jackson make a "mistake"
too: Jew me, sue me. Remember? Look at all the hysteria that caused. More than
a few dead goy sailors.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:42 PST 1996
Article: 24907 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Germany must perish"
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 03:55:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <825047744snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <00002fc9+00007646@msn.com> <824432312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gd612$2jf@shiva.usa.net> <4gdhtu$a5j@wi.combase.com>
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In article <4gdhtu$a5j@wi.combase.com> mgiwer@combase.com "Matt Giwer" writes:

> >Had Jews bombed Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack, then Hollywood would
> >have portrayed Jews in exactly the same light as they portrayed the
> >Japanese.
> 
>         I don't remember the same kind of portrayal when the Liberty
> was sunk.  In fact it was not until all the celebration of the Gulf War 
> victory that the survivors were finally, and very quietly, awarded medals
> for their service throughout the attack.  
>         And of course that can be debated till hell freezes over as can
> the Japanese justification for attacking Pearl Harbor but then just how 
> many people ever heard of or even remember the Liberty?

There goes a man after my own heart.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:43 PST 1996
Article: 24908 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Happy to oblige, Mr. Giwer!
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 20:08:19 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <825106099snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel Keren" writes:

> 
> mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
> 
> # Should not "useless eaters"  be allowed to starve to
> # death.  "He that will not work, let him also not eat."  
> # That is a Christian tradition going back a couple thousand 
> # years, or from whenever those words were ascribed to JC 
> # himself.  
> 
> So, do you support killing mentally retarded and insane
> people, like the Nazis did? Yes or no?

It is a sad fact Dan that most people today do. In theory at any rate.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:43 PST 1996
Article: 24909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Germany must perish"
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 04:00:22 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <825048022snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <00002fc9+00007646@msn.com> <824432312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gd612$2jf@shiva.usa.net> <4gdhtu$a5j@wi.combase.com> <4gfpv3$rgc@shiva.usa.net> <4gg9ar$o52@wi.combase.com> <312BCF22.DC3@unb.ca>
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In article <312BCF22.DC3@unb.ca> t08o@unb.ca "Keith Morrison" writes:

> Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> > 
> >         You would have thought the murderers would have noticed
> > the flag.  Most likely they did.
> 
> I take it you are in the process of forcing the United States
> military to admit to murdering a whole bunch of British soldiers
> when USAF pilots began using them for target practice during
> Desert Storm?  Not mentioning, of course, the soldiers belonging
> to its *own* armed forces they scragged.

Don't forget the Iraqis they also murdered. There was a tremendous amount
of jingoistic crap here too, including from the far right, the so-called Nazis
I am supposed to be hand in glove with. For the record, the Gulf War and
the Falklands War before it is about the only time I have ever agreed with
the Socialist Workers Party who saw these acts of madness and genocide for
what they were.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:44 PST 1996
Article: 24910 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Raven and the Nuremberg Law (Re: Graves Beats a Dead Horse]
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 20:06:43 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <825106003snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <311DB2C9.6370@kaiwan.com> <4focva$3st@access5.digex.net> <312113E0.7EC6@kaiwan.com> <4gc46i$glk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4gc46i$glk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Just answer this: what Israeli law or custom presently prescribes
> the death penalty for intermarriage? The Nazis prescribed just
> such penalties.

I find Jews extremely arrogant, besides, I think our race is being diluted. 
In about 50 to 100 years time, there will be no distinctions. I wouldn't 
marry a Jew as I believe in racial purity.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:45 PST 1996
Article: 24911 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Marx was a jew
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 20:03:59 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <825105839snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4g8t1h$47ci@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4gfffk$pdf@news.ios.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:19817 alt.politics.nationalism.white:14407 alt.discrimination:43425 alt.revisionism:24911

In article <4gfffk$pdf@news.ios.com> DM@delt.com "Dave" writes:

> Mark was not only a Jew but also a Satanist.

Marx was a crank. Full stop.

> Most early communists were Jewish.Communisim is an extention of the 
> Filthy
> Talmud and its extreme suprmicist in the Jewish community.

Another nut.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:46 PST 1996
Article: 24912 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al Weasels Again
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 20:12:35 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <825106355snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4ggkd6$vk@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:


> It should be noted that 
> typhus is one of the easiest diseases to control.  

Are you serious??


> >Olga - Kramer ordered the camp liquidated - Lengyel
> >  mentions that Mengele himself caught it. I think if you look through the 
> >  Belsen Trial you'll find references to it too. Check out Garlinski
> 
>         Fine.  Give me the titles of the books and the pages on which your 
> contentions are supported and I will.  Failing such specificity (which,
>  ironically) 

Five Chimneys is Lengyel's book. Find the page yourself. Ditto Garlinski. His
book has an index. I presume you have read The Belsen Trial? If not, Dan has.

> There is no way to "breed" lice carrying 
> typhus.  Lice are only a vector of the disease.  If there was no reservoir of
>  the 

The claim is not mine; it is made by Garlinski in "Fighting Auschwitz".


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:46 PST 1996
Article: 24923 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Germany must perish"
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 96 03:54:54 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <825047694snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <4gd612$2jf@shiva.usa.net> hkatz@earth.usa.net "Harry Katz" writes:

> 
> Had Jews bombed Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack, then Hollywood would
> have portrayed Jews in exactly the same light as they portrayed the
> Japanese.

Yeah sure Harry, the same way they portrayed Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir
and the events surrounding the USS Liberty.
 
> Mr. Baron has the disgustingly bad taste to imply that Hollywood's
> support for the American war effort was somehow a Jewish ("oy vay")
> plot, totally divorced from the reality of American and world politics
> of the time.

Well, wasn't it? 



-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:47 PST 1996
Article: 24953 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Baron Exposes Zionist Slimeballs' Collaboration With Anti-Semite
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 10:21:52 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
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To the Editor,                             93c Venner Road,
$Jewish Chronicle$                           Sydenham,
                                           London SE26 5HU.
                                           0181 659 7713


February 6, 1996,

Hello Temko, you slimeball,

On page 16 of the January 26, 1996 issue of the un-$Jewish Chroni-
cle$ you published an article called $Anti-race drive is launched$ 
by one Estelle Beninson, which refers to an "information pack" 
published by the Searchlight Educational Trust which is to be 
freely available in Manchester. Shouldn't that really be a disin-
formation pack? Are we to learn from this, for example, that in 
1965, "Searchlight investigators" brought the non-existent mur-
derers of a yeshiva student to justice? Or that Column 88 has "an 
underground army of three hundred men and women" which is poised 
to bomb, burn and take over the country at the drop of a hat? Or 
that Combat 18 is run by the international Nazi conspiracy, or by 
MI5, or by both? 

This article claims too that a certain Henry Guterman of the so-
called "Jewish representative council" called for laws against 
Holocaust Revisionism - with typical Jewish tolerance. Is this 
the same Henry Guterman who appeared in the November 1987 issue 
in an article called $Put war criminals on trial$? What happened to 
these so-called war criminals? I seem to recall that this was yet 
another witch hunt by self-styled Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal 
and his goons. Even the Board of Deputies would have no truck 
with it. 

Finally, and most interestingly, the same article quotes a cer-
tain Ray Hill of Searchlight who "warned that while racist groups 
did not have the membership levels of 20 years ago, they were now 
more violent."

Is that indeed the case? I seem to recall that in its July 13, 
1979 issue the un-$Jewish Chronicle$ reported that a certain Mr Ray 
Hill pleaded guilty to common assault on a Jewish cafe owner. 
When he assaulted Mr Josephs, Hill was alleged to have shouted 
"Bastard Jew!" Was this the same Ray Hill?

In March 1984, a certain Ray Hill told the $News of the World$ 
newspaper that "It all started as a bit of a game - the odd night 
out attacking a few Pakis. I even desecrated a synagogue." Was 
this the same Ray Hill?

In its March 26, 1988 issue, the $Lincolnshire Echo$ newspaper 
reported the case of a Mr George Lewis, a Jewish businessman and 
convicted sex offender. The star prosecution witness against Mr 
Lewis was an unnamed man who had accused Mr Lewis of indecently 
assaulting his sons. Mr Lewis was cleared because, in spite of 
his antecedents being known to the jury, the jury believed him 
rather than his accuser and the two alleged victims. In the July 
1988 issue of the British National Party's magazine $Spearhead$ the 
name of Mr Lewis's accuser was given as Ray Hill. This wouldn't 
be the same Ray Hill, would it?

Would this also be the same Ray Hill who, during his sojourn in 
South Africa - where he had fled while on bail for the above 
assault on a Jewish cafe owner - made a virulently anti-Semitic 
speech at an HNP rally while he was, at the same time, rubbing 
shoulders with influential South African Zionists? 

Would this also be the same Ray Hill who incited fascists to bomb 
and murder innocent people, who boasted in his lie-ridden book 
that he had announced to FNE leader Marc Frederiksen that "'Bolo-
gna' was the way forward" ? 

And would this be the same Ray Hill who to this day puts his name 
to a column in $Searchlight$ magazine? 

So what do we have here? A virulent "Nazi" anti-Semite and the 
diseased "Organ of British Jewry" (read international Zionism). 
Birds of a feather flock together.


Yours sincerely,
A Baron


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:48 PST 1996
Article: 24954 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac -  Salmen Lewenthal's manuscript]
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:25:50 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <825179150snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824952976snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gke6g$dbj@news.enter.net>
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In article <4gke6g$dbj@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

> Once more you blame the victim of a crime for fighting back against his 
> oppressors.  It is also odd that you cannot give a reference for your
>  accusation.

Not so. Try Garlinski for the reference. Are you saying Yale that any 
concentration camp guard was fair game to be murdered?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 24 18:00:48 PST 1996
Article: 24955 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Germany must perish"
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:31:34 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <825179494snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <00002fc9+00007646@msn.com> <824432312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gd612$2jf@shiva.usa.net> <4gdhtu$a5j@wi.combase.com> <4gi2ub$m2f@curly.cc.emory.edu> <22FEB199620091663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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In article <22FEB199620091663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
           dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu "Daniel Mittleman" writes:

>     And legitimate researchers (as opposed to the IHR variety) have been
>     grappling at how to make sense of the information that is acquired from
>     interviewing these people. 

Of course it is difficult, if the conclusions are "academically unacceptable".

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 25 09:44:39 PST 1996
Article: 25037 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:35:01 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <825179701snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <824607582snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <824909500snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gif9g$cn4@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>
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In article <4gif9g$cn4@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> (1) Despite the fact that Li'L Al wants THIS DOCUMENT RIGHT NOW OR HE'S
>     GONNA THROW A TEMPER TANTRUM, Dan has never seen or heard of this 
>     document, so how is HE going to produce it?
> 
> (2) Have you contacted the publisher/author/editor, who are in more
>     of a position to know, and asked THEM where the document is?
>     You claim the author cannot produce the document; how do you know?
>     You've only determined that DAN can't produce the document.
> 
> (3)  I cannot produce the original Magna Carta, yet I have some
>     certainty that it exists.  
> 
> 
> See, Al, logically, the fact that one person doesn't have a document, 
> doesn't prove the document never existed.  Sorry.


The only place I have ever seen this document referred to is in Lengyel's 
book. Your rhetoric is as good an admission as any that it doesn't exist
and never existed. When I cited a document that did exist - the Lachout 
document - I was branded a liar by Yale the Wail. Lengyel's fantasy is one
of many. It is on testimonies like hers that the Holocaust story rests.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 25 09:44:40 PST 1996
Article: 25038 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac -  Salmen Lewenthal's manuscript]
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:29:21 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <825179361snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824431975snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g51bv$1sp@news.enter.net> <824607187snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <824952976snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gklad$7e0@nimitz.fibr.net>
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In article <4gklad$7e0@nimitz.fibr.net> pgroff@txdirect.net "pgroff" writes:

> Mr. Baron, since when would the SS be innocent?? If some one is
> helping in the commission of murder

The operative word is IF.

> then killing them wasn't in cold
> blood, but could you for the record cite both the book, author,
> printing date, and the relevant page that you make this accusation
> from.

Bore, bore: FIGHTING AUSCHWITZ by Josef Garlinski. I can't find the page at
the moment but this book is certainly worth reading. According to the author,
the Nazis went to some considerable lengths to combat typhus at Auschwitz.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 25 14:57:49 PST 1996
Article: 25082 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:36:30 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <825179790snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824432588snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g4g2d$17mg@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4g82ek$460@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> <824953004snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gl1b7$pn0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4gl1b7$pn0@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

 
> Here is my answer: I don't know. I have not read Lengyel. I don't
> know what she says, and I trust in neither your honesty nor your
> ability to read to characterize it accurately. And I have no
> desire to run out and do your research for you so you can start
> another slagfest.

Thank you John. As though this document - if it existed - would be one of
the most important of the Holocaust - I am surprised at your lack of enthusiasm
to inquire into it. Then again, perhaps I'm not.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 25 14:57:50 PST 1996
Article: 25083 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: You won't going to believe me neither
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 96 16:58:49 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <825181129snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4gbbnh$o6k@Vir.com> <4gg59g$kbe@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>
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In article <4gg59g$kbe@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> :     Suddenly I remembered this story, the Treblinka story: hundreds of
> :     thousands of bodies burned in pyres, and I went back to this book
> :     from Steiner: Treblinka.

Steiner's book is admitted trash. It has to be reissued with the names
changed because of its libellous content. Check out Sereny's THE MEN
WHO WHITEWASH HITLER, New Statesman, November 1979. Some of her stuff is
better than many Revisionists if you make allowance for the whining and
wailing.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 02:06:14 PST 1996
Article: 25093 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 01:03:56 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <825210236snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <824607865snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4g8sku$la1@news.enter.net> <824909991snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gllcf$7co@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>
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In article <4gllcf$7co@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> So if there's a law that says all who don't celebrate Kwanzaa instead of 
> Christmas will be arrested, then you'd support that because it 
> technically and *de jure* applies across the board?  yeah, right.

I don't know what Kwanzaa is but I think this analogy is faulty.

> : The point I made with the beginning of this post is that such laws existed
> : not on account of "racism" but for deeply held social mores and that in their
> : haste to repeal such laws - often for the basest of motives - many groups, 
> : especially left wing but also Jewish groups - have driven a bus through
> : the rule of law.
> 
> Uh-huh.  Actually all those who worked to repeal these worked to *change* 
> the law, right?  How is this driving a bus through the law?  The law 
> changes constantly, so is every new law a "bus through the law?"  Or just 
> laws you liked?  

A lot of "anti-discrimination" legislation drives a bus through the rule of
law. Check out the case of Johnson Controls in which a company was ruled in
breach of the law because it operated a fetal protection policy.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:36 PST 1996
Article: 25196 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: The Beast of Belsen
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 00:57:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <825296264snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4gn2nb$336@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <4gn2nb$336@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:


>His announced policy was simple:
> `The more dead Jews you bring me, the better I like it.' His prescription
> for the uncontrollable epidemic of diarrhea was starvation. `If you don't
> eat, you don't shit.' When railroad cars and convoys were unavailable, he
> dispatched the prisoners on long marches. The weakest, unable to keep
> going, were left to die or were shot; the roads were littered with those
> who had succumbed."

I would like to challenge the authenticity of that quote; I don't believe
Kramer said any such thing. At the trial he stated that he had wanted to 
close the camp but that Berlin had made him keep it open.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:37 PST 1996
Article: 25197 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: The Liberation of Bergen-Belsen
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 01:17:34 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <825297454snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4gpn3c$m1h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <4gpn3c$m1h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> Archive/File: pub/camps/bergen-belsen/fania.02
> Last-modified: 1993/03/07
> 
> Fania Fenelon provides this grim vignette just prior to the discovery of
> the camp at Bergen-Belson, with the war nearly at an end - although she
> didn't know it, she, too, would come down with typhus within a day or
> two...

Fania Golstein - her real name - is a damned liar.
> "The SS had given the order to destroy us and burn the camp. April 15,
> 1945; we were to be shot at 3 P.M.; the British arrived at 11 A.M."
> (Fenelon, 253-255)

This is pure bullshit, and ghost-written bullshit at that. Kramer sent out
two men to surrender the camp on April 12th. When the British relieved Kramer
on the 15th he showed them around the camp. I have read some of the original
documents and it is clear from them that Kramer was too scared to do anything
without proper authorisation from Berlin.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:37 PST 1996
Article: 25198 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 00:43:24 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <825295404snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4fikl5$2ds6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824031749snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4fp3d8$39hk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <824909359snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gocln$2jai@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <4gocln$2jai@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
           gmcfee@ibm.net "Gord McFee" writes:

> I'm not arguing--note that I asked above whether my assumption of our
> agreement on this issue was correct.

What assumption?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:38 PST 1996
Article: 25199 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "revisionists" at UCLA?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 00:44:28 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <825295468snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825047571snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gokkn$e3e@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4goolg$ggr@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <4goolg$ggr@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
           kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca "Ken McVay OBC" writes:

> Mr. Baron already has the Tonies Hancock and Haley... why
> would anyone else bother, given the degree to which these two
> seem to dislike him.

Well done Harry Mazal, I didn't even see your lips move.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:39 PST 1996
Article: 25200 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is this document?
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 00:46:33 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <825295593snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825179701snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gof0k$2t0@news.enter.net>
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In article <4gof0k$2t0@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>         That is a lie, Lyin' Al.  I named you as a liar for your various lies. 
>  I 
> noted that you were an intellectually dishonest incompetent for presenting a 
> document that you had not read and whose bona fides you had not determined 
> as proof.

Then Yale the Wail, are you going to brand Olga Lengyel a liar likewise?
Or don't Jewish lies count as per usual?

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:39 PST 1996
Article: 25201 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: The "Jewish Thought Nazis" Are NOT Getting Busy.
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 01:00:33 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <825296433snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References:  <4gl94h$9sd@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:34719 alt.revisionism:25201 alt.politics.white-power:20116 alt.politics.nationalism.white:14597 alt.discrimination:43621

In article 
           rich@c2.org "Rich Graves" writes:
>    _Art. 2._ In the present Convention, genocide means any of the
>    following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part,
>    a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>    (a) Killing members of the group;
>        (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;


Destroying their fantasies about persecution perhaps?

>        (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life
>        calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in
>        part;
>        (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

Ah, is this a decree against miscegenation? I think not.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 26 22:50:40 PST 1996
Article: 25202 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron Exposes Zionist Slimeballs' Collaboration With Anti-Semite
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 96 01:03:25 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <825296605snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825157312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gp1l6$iak@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4gp1l6$iak@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Alexander Baron  wrote:
> 

Hello again Harry Mazal, you've found another alias but are still spouting
the same old meaningless drivel. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 28 06:58:16 PST 1996
Article: 25354 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al's Silliness Continues
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 00:35:03 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <825381303snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825210076snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gr7dd$opu@news.enter.net>
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In article <4gr7dd$opu@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken" writes:

>You later compounded your deceit by 
> inaccurately reporting Brown and characterizing the entire United States 
> Supreme Court as a group whose "hatred of western civilization knows no 
> bounds."

No Yale the Wail, I said the Supreme Court had been subverted by powerful
pressure groups for the purpose of plugging their own agendas. One of these
groups is Organised Jewry; another is international socialism. The lowest
common denominator of these groups is a fanatical hatred of Western Man.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 28 20:58:11 PST 1996
Article: 25477 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Germany must perish"
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 01:44:44 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <825471884snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: 
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In article 
           mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:

> > Of course it is difficult, if the conclusions are "academically unacceptable".> 
> You're just jealous, Al, because the only time people "read" _your_
> "conclusions" is right before they wipe their butt in the loo with
> them....

And shortly before they refer them to the Attorney General.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 29 06:36:49 PST 1996
Article: 25518 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news-relay.us.dell.com!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron Exposes Zionist Slimeballs' Collaboration With Anti-Semite
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 02:04:25 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <825473065snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825157312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gp1l6$iak@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <825296605snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4guj3s$1k18@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article <4guj3s$1k18@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
           jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:

> Sorry Mr, Baron. Did my meaningless list of names strike a chord
> with you?
> 
> Does this--
> 
>   National Movement?
>   Haley and Hancock: Baron a Jew?
>   Erlingham?
>   Mark Taha?
>   British Movement?
>   Incarceration?

Obviously it doesn't mean anything to you John, but I can enlighten you
about Mark Taha; he recently issued a libel writ against a certain magazine.


-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 29 23:24:31 PST 1996
Article: 25611 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yale the Wail and women's toilets
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 02:11:25 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <825473485snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <825278499snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <4gt5im$7q6@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>
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In article <4gt5im$7q6@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> No, he couldn't.  This is something you just can't seem to get. Al.  Just 
> because there were compartments labeled "whites" and "colored" throughout 
> Jim Crow days does NOT mean that each was of a separate and equal status.
> That was the whole point of Brown -- separate does not mean equal.
 
> If a white man went and sat in the wrong section, he would be viewed as 
> "odd" or "strange" -- but there was no crime committed.  

If that were indeed the case then the law would have been bad.
> 
> In addition, I just have to point out that you are begging the question.  
> If there is are separate compartments, and one is beautifully equipped, 
> and one is a decaying piece of trash, you can still ask "What if someone 
> from the good car goes to the hrrible one" -- why not ask?  But any idhit 
> can realize that that is not where the problem is going to come in, and 
> you're not going to get Whites in that situation straming into the 
> "inferior" car.

I've heard these arguments before and I am by no means convinced that blacks
always had less money spent on them. There was also a great deal of philanthropy
directed at the Negro at this time and after, some of it from Jewish sources,
a certain Mr Julius Rosenwald for one. 

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 29 23:24:32 PST 1996
Article: 25612 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!helix.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news1.io.org!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk
From: Alexander Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lyin' Al and Free Speech
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 96 02:17:41 GMT
Organization: InFoText Manuscripts
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <825473861snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
References: <4gtmeo$rgg@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>
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In article <4gtmeo$rgg@cmcl2.NYU.EDU> jal5266@is.nyu.edu "Jeremy A. Litt" writes:

> Today I got a piece of e-mail from Al.  Mr. Baron, Champion of Free 
> Speech, told me not to post anything about his revisionist activities in 
> that group.  So much for individual decision to decide what's relevant 
> and what's not. Apparently free speech is only allowed when Al wantes it, 
> in this newsgroup only.  (He said I have to confine my remarks to this 
> group).

No arsehole, and I have just answered you again in private mail.
> 
> Moreover, he informed me that he is not a Holocaust denier......

No one in his right mind denies the Holocaust. What certain people do is
question certain aspects of it, in my case mass gassings and the alleged
extermination programme. Furthermore you do not have to confine your 
remarks to this group, you can discuss them in private mail or any other
suitable forum. Alt.smokers is not a suitable forum any more than alt.revisionis,
is a suitable forum for discussing smoking.

-- 

Alexander Baron: InFoText Manuscripts

"He who does not bellow the truth when he knows the truth makes himself
the accomplice of liars and forgers." - Charles Peguy



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