The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/b/baron.al/1995/baron.0595


Archive/File: people/b/baron.al baron.0595
Last-Modified: 1995/05/06

From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:26 PDT 1995
Article: 20887 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: undelivered mail
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 19:33:49 +0000
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The one problem that remains is that sometimes I try to reply to
a message in a newsgroup and I get bounced mail. So, Mr Rosenberg, if
you exist, here it is.

>From postmaster@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 26 20:21:34 1995
>X-Mailer: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29
>Lines: 33
>
>In article 
>           joelr@winternet.com "Joel Rosenberg" writes:
>
> > Path: abaron.demon.co.uk!news2.demon.co.uk!peernews.demon.co.uk!
> > In article <798703948snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al
> >  Baron) writes:
> > Is it possible you have a point to make?  If so, what might it be?
>
>That we've all been told a great many lies. I assume that with a name 
>like Rosenberg you must be another Jew - though I may be wrong.
>
>Hasn't it ever struck you as a little odd that when somebody, anybody,
>challenges the perceived wisdom of the Holocaust that the ADL shouts:
>"Mr Rosenberg, it's you they hate!" In short, you are being made a scapegoat
>for liars, hatemongers and political gangsters.
>
>Ask Mike Shermer about the rest.
>-- 
>Al Baron
>

-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:31 PDT 1995
Article: 20890 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: militias
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I don't know much about this subject but I do know that a lot of the smears
on the militias hold no water at all. Some of them quote Ayn Rand, some of 
them are actually Jews - so much for ZOG - and Walter Williams is a spiritual
leader. 

I'm told a copy of the ADL smear on the militias is available from 
Dr Linda Thompson 71163.1350@compuserve.com
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:33 PDT 1995
Article: 20891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!peernews.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: er, who are you?
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 22:21:18 +0000
Message-ID: <799021278snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

>Received: from punt2.demon.co.uk by abaron.demon.co.uk with SMTP
>From: grand-guignol 
>To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
>Message-ID: <5k_WcKeSkoB@sputnik.tng.oche.de>

This was received as private mail, can anyone tell me who to reply to?
Is it peter@sputnik or what?
and who or what is PUNT?

>As I said,I don't know about the situation in the US so I posted the  
>article for discussion in the hope of getting some input from the  
>northamerican readers.
>You've been asking where my facts are.
>I didn't write the article but in this weeks issue of Der Spiegel
>i found some information about militias in the US.
>According to Norman Ohlsen,leader of the Michigan Militia,Baptist preacher  
>an gunshop owner his paramilitary organisation has 12000 members.
>He is also quoted saying:Many thousand people are armed and ready to
>to march to Washington and present the president and congress with an  
>ultimatum.
>His spokesperson Southwell is quoted saying: We are preparing ourself for
>the defence of our freedom.It looks as if in the near future ammunition  
>will be as valuable as gold and silver.
>These people certainly don't value the political system in the US.
>To come to an end:Who is Gery Gable ?
>## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
>

Er, I think you've got your wires crossed. This isn't my message, most of it.

Gerry Gable, well, I can't say too much about him because I'm in litigation with 
him at present, but if you want my mailing list, which contains several
publications exposing him and his organisation, send me an IRC


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:38 PDT 1995
Article: 20895 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!bt!btnet!peernews.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: concentration camps
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:46:44 +0000
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>Can anyone give me any information on the computer game Concentration
>Camp manager? Like does it exist? Has anyone ever seen a copy?
>
>I read about 1991 that a similar computer game had been produced in
>Israel; it was said to have been called intifada and the object was,
>I think, to shoot as many rioters as possible without getting stoned.
>
>Does anyone know if that existed either?
>
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:40 PDT 1995
Article: 20896 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!bt!btnet!peernews.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: Waco
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>HE PRAYED IN THE ASHES OF WACO AND VOWED REVENGE: Bomb suspect's 
>visit to Koresh blaze site, by Stuart White, published in the 
>News Of The World, April 23, 1995, pages 4-5.
>
>This is a story that was filed from Oklahoma City after the 
>arrest of Timothy McVeigh on suspicion of the bombing of the FBI 
>headquarters. Gable was given called upon to add his two shekels' 
>worth of hate, and claimed that Combat 18 had travelled to the 
>States to train with the (so-called) fascist militias!
>
>"There are dangerous link. Last year, Combat 18 produced a de-
>tailed bomb-making guide." They were said to have told their 
>members, "We have given you the technology. Here are the hit 
>lists. Now bomb the bastards." And he added, "The authorities 
>have to deal with it. These people must be stopped."
>
>There is always the possibility that he was misquoted, of course, 
>but whether or not this is the case, the only bombing Charlie 
>Sargent and company are interested in is getting bombed out of 
>their heads.
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:45 PDT 1995
Article: 20901 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: confused ID
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:11:34 +0000
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

If anyone sees any messages in this newsgroup from T.D. Man, they should
be from me. There are three of us using the same E-mail address and my 
partners, Messrs Man & Taha, are even less comms literate than I am. We are
all three of us having problems changing over the users' mailboxes etc.

Al

 
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:11:53 PDT 1995
Article: 20908 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: overdue reply
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>Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 23:58:43 GMT
>From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
>Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
>Message-Id: <364@abaron.demon.co.uk>
>To: bzs@world.std.com
>Subject: new thread?                                              
>X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10
>Lines: 31
>
This one got lost somewhere

>In message <199504272014.AA16128@world.std.com> Barry Shein writes:
>> 
>> >No Nazi ever uttered such a terrible statement as a million Arabs aren't
>> >worth a Jewish fingernail. 
>> 
>Sarcasm
>
>> Oh yeah? I suppose you've never read Himmler's Posen speech.
>>
>Rhetoric
> 
>> At any rate, I remember the NSA recommended, vis a vis the Gulf War,
>> that nothing in Iraq was worth a single American life.
>>
>You think Americans should die for Iraq?
> 
>> I've seen the above discussed and it always turned out to be out of
>> context and probably more like that NSA statement, that is, nothing
>> can be gained by fighting that is worth any of their lives (or
>> injuries.)
>> 
>> Of course in the hands of haters it all becomes hatred.
>> 
>> I assure you, Mr Baron, I don't really give a damn about Israel either
>> way, and don't generally approve of her behavior.
>> 
>No, but I'm glad to hear it. This stems from my being continually 
>attacked and denounced as a bigot by (mainly Zionist) bigots.
>
>When I have won this libel action I'll write a book about it and 
>you'll understand.

-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:12:29 PDT 1995
Article: 20942 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!bt!btnet!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: Mermelstein
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>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 08:20:07 GMT
>From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
>Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
>Message-Id: <409@abaron.demon.co.uk>
>To: donald05@pipeline.com
>Subject: Re: Mermelstein
>X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10
>Lines: 36
>
>In message <199504300210.WAA15232@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> Donald Moffitt writes:
>> In alt.revisionism A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron) said: 
>> > 
>
>CROSS POSTED FROM PRIVATE MAIL
>
>> >Isn't it strange how this thread has evaporated? This is precisely what
>> happens  
>> >every time any Revisionist makes any unassailable point, the subject is
>> quietly  
>> >shelved. 
>> >--  
>> >Al Baron 
>> -- 
>> The only thing strange about this thread was your imbecility in starting it
>> in the first place.  You'd be better off sticking with lies that you can't
>> prove but that nobody can actually disprove
>
>Many thanks for posting this, I will take it up with the people concerned
>in time. This though is the 1985 judgment where the judge took judicial notice
>of gassings, something which he had no right to do. If he had taken judicial
>notice of Adam and Eve in a case concerning the beginning of life on Earth,
>that would have made any arguments submitted by Creationists inadmissible.
>
>I will be ordering the book BEST WITNESS in time, but in the meantime, 
>perhaps you would be so kind as to post the 1992 judgment in which a no
>nonsense judge didn't fall for any of that claptrap. I am also informed 
>that in the above case it was only the IHR's attorney who apologised and
>withdrew.
>
>What say you? Like I said, I am very interested in your version of the 1992
>judgment.
>
>Re personal abuse, I've been called far worse names, so please feel free 
>to continue, but why you should believe that anyone can't hold sincerely
>an opinion diametrically opposed to yours on this one subject, especially
>in view of the mass of tainted evidence and testimony which is now proven
>and admitted, well, that is your problem. But you are far from the only
>one. Any mention of this subject seems to drive many people hysterical.
> 

-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:12:34 PDT 1995
Article: 20943 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!bt!btnet!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: The Lies Of Our "Times"
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Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 10:36:47 +0000
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>The two letters below might be of interest to people who are interested
>in the truth rather than repeating officially sanctioned lies or 
>smearing as anti-Semitic anyone who refuses to take them at face value.
>I didn't hear Elie Wiesel or the ADL protesting against this nonsense.
>
>Imagine the reaction of the latter if someone had claimed that fresh
>evidence had come to light that in the Middle Ages Jews really had 
>practised ritual murder.
>
>
>I received an acknowledgment from the $Times$; nothing from the 
>$Independent$
>
>
>                                           93c Venner Road,
>                                           Sydenham,
>                                           London SE26 5HU.
>                                           081 659 7713
>
>
>
>31 January 1995,
>
>Sir,
>
>I was amazed and appalled in equal measures to read the story on 
>page 2 of the $Times$ last Saturday, $Death camp's dark secrets 
>still emerging$, which purports to reveal that the Nazis manufac-
>tured soap out of "Jewish fat". I would have thought that after I 
>exposed the canard which Sir Bernard Levin perpetuated unwitting-
>ly last year that your paper would have taken greater care when 
>reporting such dubious "history". After all, the $Times$ is not 
>only internationally respected but indexed and held in probably 
>every major research library throughout the English-speaking 
>world. 
>
>Re the article, it is claimed here that a Polish sociology pro-
>fessor reported that the words RJF appeared on soap manufactured 
>from dead Jews in Poland. Please allow me to quote from an acade-
>mic publication dated 1980. 
>
>An article in $Paris Match$, November 3, 1956, reported that four 
>bars of "human soap" wrapped in a shroud were buried in Israel in 
>1948. The bars bore the letters RIF meaning "Reichsstelle fur 
>Industrielle Fetterversorgung", the German government outlet 
>which oversaw the distribution of soap and detergent. "These 
>letters were twisted by the Exterminationists to mean $Rein Judis-
>ches Fett (Pure Jewish Fat)$". [Reference $The Journal of Histori-
>cal Review$, Volume One, Number Two, Summer 1980, page 131.]
>
>I realise of course that the Revisionists' hypothesis is not at 
>all popular with the mass media, but unless the $Times$ publishes a 
>full retraction of this outrageous anti-German lie, it will lend 
>credence to the Revisionists' claims that the mass media is 
>indeed a lie machine of enormous proportions, and I'm sure you 
>wouldn't want to do that, leaving aside any aspersions this would 
>cast on the integrity of your own paper. On top of this, main-
>stream Holocaust historians do not accept this nonsense either. 
>In his book $THE DESTRUCTION OF THE EUROPEAN JEWS: REVISED AND 
>DEFINITIVE EDITION$, (1985), Professor Raul Hilberg writes that 
>the human soap canard appears to have started in Lublin. Poles 
>were said to have been used as well, see pages 520-1. While on 
>pages 954-5 he writes: "The use of human fat for soap cannot be 
>established as a fact from available documentary evidence and 
>eyewitness reports." (But let's plant the suggestion anyway). In 
>her 1993 anti-Revisionist polemic $Denying The Holocaust$, Deborah 
>Lipstadt also gives no credence to the human soap canard, (see 
>page 201).
>
>I would point out further that the Dowager Lady Birdwood was 
>dragged into court in 1991 for publishing similar libels against 
>the Jews, accusing them of practising ritual murder. Is not this 
>libel against the Germans equally terrible?
>
>One further reason might be given for the $Times$ publishing a full 
>retraction of this nonsense is that newspaper started it in the 
>first place. The human soap rumour - in particular the claim that 
>the Germans were operating a corpse-factory - was first launched 
>on the world through the columns of the $Times$. In 1917!
>
>I am also not a little taken aback that the mass media, again 
>including the $Times$, has given so much prominence to the so-
>called Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel, the man who wrote in 
>1968 that "Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a 
>zone of hate - healthy, virile hate - for what the German perso-
>nifies and for what persists in the German. To do otherwise would 
>be a betrayal of the dead." 
>
>You are probably not aware that Elie Wiesel is despised by Ultra-
>Orthodox (ie real) Jews, for in the words of Rabbi Josef Becher, 
>"Elie Wiesel's works are blasphemous. He alternately denounces G-
>d for 'allowing' the Holocaust to occur and denying His exis-
>tence", (from $THE TORAH AND POLITICAL ZIONISM$, a pamphlet pub-
>lished in February 1984 by The International Organisation For The 
>Elimination Of All Forms Of Racial Discrimination). 
>
>I hope that the $Times$ will be a lot more careful in future when 
>reporting on such matters. For what it's worth, I have just 
>published a book on the Holocaust myself, and although I am not 
>an historian, I had an advance order of three copies from Gerry 
>Gable, the internationally respected anti-fascist researcher. 
>High praise indeed.
>
>I enclose the relevant documentation from 1980 as mentioned.
>
>
>Yours sincerely,
>A Baron
>
>                                           93c Venner Road,
>                                           Sydenham,
>                                           London SE26 5HU.
>                                           081 659 7713
>
>
>23 February 1995,
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>I am writing in connection with an article which appeared in the 
>$Independent$ of February 4. I apologise for the delay, but this 
>has just been brought to my attention, as the saying goes. In the 
>article in question, $Shaven heads and Oi! Oi! Oi!$, Ian Thompson 
>writes indignantly about Holocaust Revisionism and states that it 
>is both the most pervasive form of anti-Semitism and that only a 
>"corrupted personality" like Otto Remer could claim that the 
>bulldozed corpses at Belsen were the result of an outbreak of 
>typhus rather than the result of a genocidal ideology.
>
>Before people exhibit such righteous indignation they should at 
>least do their homework and make sure they get their facts 
>straight. If you contact the Imperial War Museum or any (in your 
>parlance) reputable, historian, they will tell you exactly the 
>same thing. Furthermore, it was never claimed by responsible 
>observers - which does not include sensationalist journalists - 
>that there was any sort of policy of genocide instituted at 
>Belsen. I mention the Imperial War Museum because in 1991 this 
>august institution published a booklet called $The Relief of 
>Belsen$ which sets out the true facts about this camp.
>
>This is not a new error - or lie - for you. In the $Independent on 
>Sunday$ (22nd August 1993), Stephen Ward, referred to Belsen's gas 
>chambers; again, it is not claimed, and was never claimed, that 
>any such gas chamber existed. I would suggest that you publish a 
>full retraction and that you take more care when reporting such 
>matters in future.
>
>
>Yours faithfully,
>A Baron
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:12:54 PDT 1995
Article: 20962 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: refusing to face the facts - duplicated from private mail
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 09:15:26 GMT
>From: TD_Man@abaron.demon.co.uk (TD Man)
>Reply-To: TD_Man@abaron.demon.co.uk
>Message-Id: <388@abaron.demon.co.uk>
>To: jeff_brown@pol.com
>Subject: Re: Refusing to face the facts
>X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10
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>
>In message <7311140.ensmtp@pol.com> "Jeffrey G. Brown" writes:
>> > Okay, wise guy. At the end of the war, it was claimed that
>> > Jews - and others were gassed in Dachau. Photographs of
>> > disinfecting chambers were circulated as gas chambers.
>> 
>> These are still unsubstantiated assertions. Who made the claim? Who circulated
>> the photographs? When and by whom was it discovered that these photographs
>> were actually of 'disinfection chambers'? Where can these photographs be seen
>> today?
>> 
>> The lack of specifics is symptomatic of deniers.
>> 
>I'll give you two references: LEST WE FORGET, published by the London Daily
>Mail, September 1945, and a book you'll have no trouble at all finding
>SIX MILLION DID DIE by Arthur Suzman and Denis Diamond, published by the South
>African Jewish Board of Deputies, NEW EDITION WITH FURTHER FACTS (indeed!),
>1978
>
>> > The typhus epidemic and mass starvation at Belsen were
>> > represented, and still are as PROOF that Jews were GASSED in
>> > Auschwitz. 
>> 
>> This is another unsubstantiated assertion. Who represented actions at Belsen
>> as proof of gassings at Auschwitz? Where can I read this representation
>> myself?
>> 
>Don't you read newspapers? Try the London Independent (On Sunday), August 22,
>1993. The inference is often implied rather than stated, and not all
>journalists are ignorant of the true facts, while those who are never
>correct their mistakes.
> 
>> The lack of specifics is symptomatic of deniers.
>>
>NO NO NO the lack of specifics is symptomatic of affirmers such as 
>Deborah Lipstadt who refuse to debate this issue because, in her words,
>there is no debate. For once she is right.
> 
>> > Academics are Janus-faced; in private they will concede that
>> > there are "problems" with survivor testimony. Try talking to
>> > them and see what they say. I have.
>> 
>> This is another unsubstantiated assertion. Who concedes this? Where can I read
>> it for myself?
>
>Go and ask one.
>> 
>> 
>> Did the Russians and Vad Yashem set the original figures? Who says the missing
>> Jews were killed elsewhere? Where are they said to be killed?
>> 
>See for example Yorkshire Post, May 8, 1945, and undoubtedly many other
>papers. Yes, the Russians set the figures.
>
>> 
>> > I don't claim to be a scholar...
>> 
>> What are you then? An entertainer? A propagandist? A denier? What, exactly?
>> 
>In my personal life I'm a Libertarian, but politics aside you might say that
>I'm an ordinary guy who doesn't like being conned.
>
>> > I'm not the one who can't face the light of open debate, my
>> > name is Baron, not Lipstadt.
>> 
>> I'm not sure what your name is. Are you A_Baron or TD_Man? Is there a specific
>> reason for this inconsistency, or is it just a small example of a larger
>> problem?
>> 
>If you read the message I posted in alt.revisionism you'll see that when my
>colleague logged onto to the Internet he sent a message to someone and forgot
>to change the mailbox. Neither of my colleagues are interested in this subject,
>although one of them did help proof read my book. You will find all three of us
>Baron, T.D Man and Mark Taha, listed in British Books In Print. Mark Taha
>is the co-author of THE CHURCHILL PAPERS: Revising The Revisionists, Unmasking Irving,
>which was published last October. T.D is more of an editor, but neither of them
>have any interest in Holocaust Revisionism.
>
>> You're still not willing to discuss your charges in public, in the newsgroups.
>> You'll make the charges, but you then ignore posted questions and challenges.
>> This dogged avoidance of any close scrutiny of claims is also symptomatic of
>> deniers.
>> 
>> Not true, I've documented it all in my book, and I'm planning on writing 
>another one, perhaps later this year. Maybe you'd like me to upload it to save you buying it or
>ordering it from your library? You make similar claims of other Revisionists,
>obviously you haven't read them because Professor Butz, Judge Staeglich etc
>reference their works meticulously. In fact one of the absurd claims levelled
>against Revisionists is that because their books contain masses of footnotes
>they are "mock scholarly". 
>
>As you are obviously arguing from ignorance I don't see much point in arguing 
>with you at all, however, if you will choose one specific area of the above
>I'll upload another chapter just for you. How's that?
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:12:56 PDT 1995
Article: 20963 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: Mermelstein
Organization: InfoText Manuscripts
Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

Isn't it strange how this thread has evaporated? This is precisely what
happens every time any Revisionist makes any unassailable point, the 
subject is quietly shelved.
-- 
Al Baron


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 30 23:13:09 PDT 1995
Article: 20976 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!doc.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: Mermelstein
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

Thanks, now give me a printed source. My information is that it was not
the IHR but Robert von Esches and his son - attorneys at law - who paid 
Mermelstein $100,000 in an out of court settlement.

Mermelstein subsequently gave up his suit for libel, infliction of emotional
distress etc and backed out. I gather that Mark Lane, who represented the 
IHR, is a Jew, but whatever his politics or however well he represented
them here, he has some real cranky ideas about the Kennedy assassination.

Nobody has mentioned the testimony of Rudolph Vrba at the first Zundel
trial, nor his candid admission - under duress - that completely 
invalidates the already long discredited War Refugee Board Report.
-- 
Al Baron


From bzs@world.std.com Sun Apr 30 23:13:16 PDT 1995
Article: 20980 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Mermelstein
In-Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk's message of Sat, 29 Apr 1995 18:30:46 +0000
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 23:39:58 GMT
Lines: 149


From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
>Thanks, now give me a printed source. My information is that it was not
>the IHR but Robert von Esches and his son - attorneys at law - who paid 
>Mermelstein $100,000 in an out of court settlement.



		 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
		       FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

MEL MERMELSTEIN.                )    No. C 356 542
         Plaintiff,             )
vs.                             )    JUDGMENT
                                )
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL        )
REVIEW, et al.                  )
         Defendants.            )

     Pursuant to the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment executed on July 22,
1985, the Court renders the following judgment:

    1.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE PRESS,
and each of them, are jointly and severally liable to plaintiff MEL
MERMELSTEIN for the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand Dollars ($150,000.00),
reduced to the sum of Ninety Thousand Dollars ($90,000.00) payable as
follows:
       (a) Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) on August 1, 1985, and
delivered to the law offices of ALLRED, MAROKO, GOLDBERG & RIBAKOFF;
       (b)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on September 1, 1985;
       (c)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on October 1, 1985.
    2.  Should any of the installments not be made by the defendants against
whom judgment herein is entered within the time period provided, plaintiff,
at his sole option and discretion, shall have the following options:
       (a) To rescind the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment and proceed to
trial and any payments received by plaintiff to that date from defendants
shall not be returned to said defendants; or
       (b) Plaintiff may request entry of Judgment against each of said
defendants, jointly or severally, in the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand
Dollars ($150,000.00).
    3.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE PRESS,
shall issue and execute, by a duly authorized representative, a Letter of
Apology to Mel Mermelstein, as follows:
  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
  apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
  Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish and
  suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained relating to
  the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in gas chambers at
  Auschwitz".

DATED: AUG 5, 1985

                                          ROBERT A. WENKE, JUDGE
                                          SUPERIOR COURT

APPROVED AS TO FORM AND CONTENT:

G. G. BAUMEN
Attorney for Defendants
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW,
LEGION FOR SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM,
ELISABETH CARTO and NOONTIDE PRESS

VON ESCH & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys for Defendants
LIBERTY LOBBY and WILLIS CARTO


*****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****


			    STATEMENT OF RECORD
				    AND
		    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN

     "WHEREAS, the Legion for Survival of Freedom, and the Institute for
Historical Review, sent by letter dated November 20, 1980, directly to Mel
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald, an exclusive
reward offer in a letter marked "'personal'" dated November 20, 1980,
offering Mr. Mermelstein a $50,000 exclusive reward for "'proof that Jews
were gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz'" "and further stating that if Mr.
Mermelstein did not respond to the reward offer "'very soon"', "the
Institute for Historical Review would ' publicize that fact to the mass
media' ..."
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein formally applied for said $50,000 reward on
December 18, 1980; and
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein now contends that the Institute for
Historical Review knew, or should have known, from Mr. Mermelstein's letter
to the editor of the Jerusalem Post dated August 17, 1980, that Mr.
Mermelstein contended he was a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald; knew, or should have known, that Mr. Mermelstein contended that
his mother and two sisters were gassed to death at Auschwitz; and knew, or
should have known, of his contention that at dawn on May 22, 1944, he
observed his mother and two sisters, among other women and children, being
lured and driven into the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, which he later
discovered to be Gas Chamber No. 5; and
     "WHEREAS, on October 9, 1981, the parties in dispute in the litigation
filed cross-motions for summary judgment resulting in the court, per the
Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, taking judicial notice as follows:
  "'Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944'" and "'It just
  simply is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code Section
  452(h).  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is capable of
  immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably
  indisputable accuracy.  It is simply a fact.'"
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz contend that
they suffered severe emotional distress resulting from said reward offer and
subsequent conduct of the Institute of Historical Review; and
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom now contend that in offering such reward there was no intent to
offend, embarrass or cause emotional strain to anyone, including Mr.
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald Concentration
Camps of World War II, and a person who lost his father, mother and two
sisters who also were inmates of Auschwitz;
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom should have been aware that the reward offer would cause Mr.
Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz to suffer severe emotional
distress which the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom, now recognize is regrettable and abusive to survivors of
Auschwitz.

		    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN

  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish and
suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained relating to
the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in gas chambers at
Auschwitz".

DATED: 7/24/85             G. G. Baumen
                           Attorney for Defendants
                           Legion For Survival of Freedom,
                           Institute for Historical Review,
                           Noontide Press, and Elisabeth Carto

DATED: 7/24/85             MARK F. VON ESCH
                           Attorneys for Defendants
                           Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed May  3 01:05:31 PDT 1995
Article: 21021 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!doc.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: les griswold
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

I don't want to appear dumb, but who exactly is Les Griswold?

-- 
Al Baron


From bzs@world.std.com Wed May  3 01:05:35 PDT 1995
Article: 21023 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!swrinde!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: les griswold
In-Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk's message of Sun, 30 Apr 1995 21:25:12 +0000
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
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Date: Mon, 1 May 1995 07:32:16 GMT
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From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
>I don't want to appear dumb, but who exactly is Les Griswold?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed May  3 01:05:43 PDT 1995
Article: 21030 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: the pleasure of my company
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Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 21:11:33 +0000
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

Just thought I'd let you know, Chickabiddies, that although I've been
logging on four or five times a day recently, that's only because I've
been at a bit of a loose end preparing stuff at home.

Don't expect replies more than once every couple of days in future. I don't
really expect any replies from any of you with regard to the substantial
evidence of duplicity I've put before you re human soap etc because not only
is the info all in the public domain but it is irrefutable.

I also wish some of you would adopt something a little more positive than
denouncing people as anti-Semites ad nauseum when a) you don't agree with
them and b) you can't refute what they say.


-- 
Al Baron


From bzs@world.std.com Wed May  3 01:05:48 PDT 1995
Article: 21036 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: the pleasure of my company
In-Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk's message of Sun, 30 Apr 1995 21:11:33 +0000
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
>I also wish some of you would adopt something a little more positive than
>denouncing people as anti-Semites ad nauseum when a) you don't agree with
>them and b) you can't refute what they say.

And I wish you'd come up with something even slightly more substantive
than claiming the holocaust is a hoax and then using some criticism of
modern-day israel to prove your point.

Maybe when you shoot so broadly there's a reason people confuse
exactly what it is you are aiming at?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk Wed May  3 01:06:30 PDT 1995
Article: 21086 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!abaron.demon.co.uk!A_Baron
Subject: To Donald Moffit
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Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk

>
Okay, for the benefit of everyone else, Mr Moffitt has decided that he
cannot argue with me rationally. He has therefore instructed his program
nto delete all mail from me. I take this as victory so am posting this
last, presumably unread message here, so he can read it, and so that 
everyone else can see who has won the debate.

Okay Don, I won't mail you ever again without your express permission.
There is no debate, you say. In other words, you CAN'T DEBATE. So long.

In message <199504301258.IAA00312@pipe1.nyc.pipeline.com> Donald Moffitt writes:
>>  
>>  
>> It comes as no great surprise that you violate Netiquette by posting
>> private e-mail without permission.  After all, you routinely violate truth,
>> sensibility and the canons of rationality.  This is my final private
>> posting to you.  No doubt you will as happy to be rid my of mail as I will
>> be to stop reading your slime. 
>>
>I thought you wanted it posted thus, or was that the other guy when
>we were having trouble with our mailer?
>
>I do not violate truth, my beliefs are sincere. You seem to be of the 
>opinion that anyone who holds dissenting views on this subject is a damned
>liar. That is obviously not the case,
>
>My beliefs are every bit as rational as yours. In 1616 Sylvie de la Plaine
>testified that the Devil's semen was cold. Jews confessed to the far more
>plausible crime of ritual murder, and they weren't all tortured. I don't
>believe any of that either.
>
>Unlike you I refuse to be intimidated by cries of ANTI-SEMITIC by the 
>likes of the ADL, an organisation which makes a practice of spying on 
>Americans; and by people who believe that, just because they or their
>relatives have suffered, we must accept everything they say at face
>value. In short, I am not gullible and am more impressed by rational
>arguments - including yours, incidentally - than by intimidation,
>threats, name calling and legal harassment.
>
>Shalom 
>
>-- 
>Al Baron
>
-- 
Al Baron


From bzs@world.std.com Wed May  3 01:06:33 PDT 1995
Article: 21088 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: To Donald Moffit
In-Reply-To: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk's message of Mon, 1 May 1995 07:10:26 +0000
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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References: <799312226snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 May 1995 00:01:31 GMT
Lines: 30


From: A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Al Baron)
>Okay, for the benefit of everyone else, Mr Moffitt has decided that he
>cannot argue with me rationally. He has therefore instructed his program
>nto delete all mail from me.

Well, Mr Baron, you certainly have lept from content-free nonsense to
content-free combativeness easily enough.

It seems from reading the quote you supplied that Mr Moffitt is
protesting your posting of his private e-mail. What that has to do
with arguing with you rationally is anyone's guess. Perhaps your
notion of rational is different than we generally use here on earth.

>> It comes as no great surprise that you violate Netiquette by posting
>> private e-mail without permission.  After all, you routinely violate truth,
>> sensibility and the canons of rationality.  This is my final private
>> posting to you.  No doubt you will as happy to be rid my of mail as I will
>> be to stop reading your slime. 

Perhaps if you have something to say just say it.

If you came here to engage in cranky whining I doubt anyone is very
interested. We've seen all this posturing many times before.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 21583 of alt.revisionism:
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From: Al Baron 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: intellectual dishonesty
Date: 26 May 1995 09:53:30 +0100
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>So Revisionists are intellectually dishonest, huh?
>
>Well, I don't like to keep mentioning my book but it is actually a defence
>of free inquiry which takes no overall position on the Holocaust. It was
>written in response to a pamphlet by the Anti Nazi League 
>
>HOLOCAUST DENIAL: THE NEW NAZI LIE
>
>Two of the signatories to this pamphlet - sponsors - were Martin Gilbert and David
>Cesarani. Gilbert is - in my opinion - an honest sap. But David it-was-
>a-war-against-fascism Cesarani is no such thing.
>
>First question: who is the most notorious war criminal of the Nazi era
>still alive?
>

-- 
Al Baron


Article 63867 of alt.conspiracy:
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From: James Daugherty 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.british,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.org.covert
Subject: Re: LaRouche into Holocaust Denial?
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 09:54:47 -0400
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI
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To: Al Baron 
cc: New Paradigms Discussion 
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Xref: news.port.island.net alt.conspiracy:63867 alt.politics.british:11698 alt.illuminati:5319 alt.politics.org.covert:157

I agree that there should be no need to invent lies, but how do you so 
casually reject the LaRouche idea that a covert British Imperialism may 
exist?

Anglophobia has a long and glorious history!  LaRouche did not invent 
it!  The overt British Empire of bygone days certainly fueled a lot 
justified theorizing...

On Sat, 27 May 1995, Al Baron wrote:

> In article  you write:
> > 
> > What is your source for this statement?  Yes, I agree Willis Carto is 
> > strongly committed to holocaust denial and other fascist values and that 
> > LaRouche has had contact with Carto....but that does not make LaRouche an 
> > advocate of holocaust denial.
> > 
> > LaRouche, contrary to Carto, has always been a severe critic of Nazism, 
> > though connecting to British Establishment circles committed to racism and 
> > eugenics.
> > 
> 
> LaRouche is not a Holocaust Revisionist and he is certainly no fascist, in
> fact he is a long-standing ANTI-fascist with impeccable credentials. He is 
> also crazy. The claim that LaRouche is a Holocaust Revisionist appears to
> have originated with Patterns of Prejudice, a wailing and gnashing of teeth
> "Jewish" academic [sic] journal.
> 
> LaRouche believes that the Queen of England, Henry Kissinger and half the
> banks in Hong Kong are involved in a sinister conspiracy to flood America
> with cocaine in order to recolonise it by the secret British government.
> 
> Why anyone should feel it necessary to invent lies about someone who is
> so obviously out of his tree never ceases to amaze me.
> 
> -- 
> Al Baron

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