From christ@adnc.com Mon Dec 23 11:39:10 PST 1996
Article: 87871 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!taurus!adnline385.adnc.com!user
From: christ@adnc.com (Chris Winkler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: JEWS TRY AGAIN TO CLOSE DOWN ZUNDELSITE ON WWW
Date: 22 Dec 1996 00:45:22 GMT
Organization: Truth Inc.
Lines: 115
Message-ID: 
References:   <329DBCC1.7F71@total.net> <329E2265.471A@vir.com>  <32A09D07.4D78@interlog.com>   <32aba194.14754856@news.direct.ca>  <32ad0ae9.2999893@news.gte.net> <58mu5j$qf9$1@gryphon.phoenix.net> <32b0cf22.8374744@news.inetworld.net> <32b33bb9.18196103@news.gte.net> <32b8a939.5261869@news.inetworld.net> <32ba03ce.4038031@news.gte.net> <32bc5c0f.6529099@news.inetworld.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.158.3.85
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:87871 soc.culture.canada:103846

In article <32bc5c0f.6529099@news.inetworld.net>, rcf@inetworld.net wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Dec 1996 03:13:22 GMT, octagon@septa.gon (Up front) wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 02:34:56 GMT, rcf@inetworld.net wrote:
> >
> >>On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 02:30:14 GMT, destroyer@navy.water (Arleigh Burke)
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 03:38:13 GMT, rcf@inetworld.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:13:40 -0600, Doc Tavish
> >>>><"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Force wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Mon, 9 Dec 1996 23:19:16 GMT, bernst2@uwindsor.ca (Andrew
> >>>>>> Bernstein) wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> >In article <32aba194.14754856@news.direct.ca>, Private@direct.ca
wrote:
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >>On Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:56:42 -0500, WAHRHEIT 
opened
> >>>>>> >>his mouth & droolled:
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >>>Even the Soviets, when they captured Auschwitz, found documentation
> >>>>>> >>>confirming that only 72,000 Jews died there,according to
recently released
> >>>>>> >>>Soviet documents.
> >>>>
> >>>>It is truly amazing to me that someone can so easily discuss the death
> >>>>of 72,000 human beings as if it were just a blip on the radar screen
> >>>>of history.  
> >>>>
> >>>>What an incredibly sad commentary.
> >>>
> >>>     Within the next 100 years, 6 billion people will die, more than
> >>>have died in the entire history of the human race.  72,000 is
> >>>certainly a blip and a rather small one at that.
> >>
> >>Oh, I see.  Since everyone eventually dies, we should excuse murder
> >>and genocide.  Gee, I'm really glad you made that so clear for me.
> >
> >       The statement was an analogy between 72,000 deaths and a blip on a
> >radar screen.  It had nothing to do with ATTEMPTED genocide either in
> >fact or in numbers. 
> >
> >       At the least you should read what you quote before you say some
> >dumb.  
> 
> Your statement was crap because it attempted to excuse the death of
> Jews during WW II.  Even an idiot should be able to figure that out.
> Everybody dies - so it's a rather moronic statement to declare that
> everyone currently on earth will be dead in a hundred years.  The
> question is how you die - and from that standpoint, you came across as
> nothing more than an apologist for the fascist elements that still
> exist in our society.  
> 
> If  your statement had nothing to do with what I was arguing, why in
> the fuck did you bother to respond to it in the first place?
> 
> =Bob

8 messages and not one word about shutting down the zundelsite. Why was
this envelope even started?
   
It's funny how the truth about the groosly overexeration death count
causes Nitzkor & it's supporters to get irate and spew obsenities. When
you have the truth, you don't need to scream, only wisper. The truth
hurts! The truth is like a wooden stake in Dracula's heart, and it shows,
as the perpetuators of the 6 million lie resort to vulgar name calling and
calling people anti-semetic, instead of having an intelligent arguement. 

The above statement didn't even come close to excusing the death of jews
during WWII. It merely stated a fact. Sure, the death of 72,000 people is
a terrible thing. But to promote a 3-6 million number for economic benefit
for eternity is the real crime. 

It's a shame people are persecuted and cursed for stating facts and their
beliefs. It's even more of a crime that the jews have persuaded most of
the governments of the world to consider this a "hate crime" and put
people in prison, take all their money, burn their house. The jews crawl
so low in the dirt that they have to send thousands of bogus emails to
people to try to shut them down, who only relate facts or state their
opinion. They tried to shut down the Zundelsite, but the truth always
prevails.

How far the jews have come, from being opressed to being the opressor. If
you don't abide by their words, they (the Mossad) will kill you, your
family, your neighbor. The jews have become the new Nazi's!

The fact that the us govt. wastes  $30 million hard earned tax dollars
each year on the over inflated number and erected a museum to it is a real
shame! Why no museum for the Vietnamese who the US killed? Or the people
the Turks killed, or all the people the Russians killed, or a museum for
all the people the chinese killed, or for all the people in africa who
were killed? Why have the crimes against the jews in wwII been put on top
of the list of priority of all the other people killed by opressive
governments? The answer is $$.

Why do jews think WWII was only against them? They were only a small part
of the travisity perpetuated by the Nazi's. They wanted world conquest &
the jews were one of many they wanted to work to death, since there was an
abundance of labor available. Ernst Zundel has offered to debate Simon W.
in an open forum. Let the truth prevail & if he is found wrong, he will
change his ways. The response from Simon W.? Only silence. The truth
hurts...

also al little play on signatures;
----------------------------------------------

If history has taught us anything it is that the truth hurts.
---
Jews are sneaky bastards, always over exaggeratelying facts and figures.


From christ@adnc.com Tue Dec 24 08:24:41 PST 1996
Article: 88029 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!taurus!adnline376.adnc.com!user
From: christ@adnc.com (Chris Winkler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: 961214: The teeth of Mrs. Aristotle
Date: 22 Dec 1996 18:00:59 GMT
Organization: Truth Inc.
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References:  <599dul$fou@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <32d8fcc4.15401811@news.mbay.net>  <59i7lb$7sn@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.158.3.76
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:88029 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3259

In article <59i7lb$7sn@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rcgraves@disposable.com
(Rich Graves) wrote:

> christ@adnc.com (Chris Winkler) writes:
> >Nizkor, can you answer the following figures put together by an engineer?
> >I want a clean debate.
> 
> There is no "Nizkor," just a bunch of folks. Who answered this in great
> detail back in May.
> 
> The particular bit of nonsense that you reposted, which was not put
> together by an engineer, is answered in several parts at:
> 
>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rimland.ingrid/science.01
>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rimland.ingrid/science.02
> 
> See also:
> 
>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/lagace.ivan/
> -- 
> Perhaps this final act was meant          Rich Graves 
> To clinch a lifetime's argument  California Institute of International Studies
> That nothing comes from violence                            Remember John Hron
> And nothing ever could           http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hron-john

I don't buy the arguements you list in science .01 above. First off, what
about the bones. Sure the meat & fat will burn in 23-30 minutes. But bones
take a long time. just look at any murder scene where someone tries to
burn a body. It only gets scorched. It takes tremendous ammts. of heat.
Also the bodies don't self-combust. Where did you find that nonsense.
There wasn't any fat on the dead, they were fed a starvation diet. Humans
don''t self-combust. Also I can't accept the fact that the fires were self
perpetuating. Give me a break. You make the point the bodies were the fuel
and no additional fuel was needed. 
that doesn't make sense.

You are right about a lot of mud slinging & hate here. If you even dare to
raise any questions, your group, just a "bunch of folks" will call them
every name in the book. Your group is alive and well and has an agenda.
It's $$$$. I don't have the time to keep coming back here and debating
these facts. Seems Nizkor has the money and time to keep this going. Me, I
have to pay the rent.

Chris


From christ@adnc.com Wed Dec 25 14:30:35 PST 1996
Article: 88517 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!taurus!adnline394.adnc.com!user
From: christ@adnc.com (Chris Winkler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: 961214: The teeth of Mrs. Aristotle
Date: 23 Dec 1996 05:58:16 GMT
Organization: Truth Inc.
Lines: 357
Message-ID: 
References:   <59i7lb$7sn@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <59k3pr$llt@access1.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.158.3.94
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:88517 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3275

Mike
Thanks for your email's. Hey, I won't deny what the Nazi's did was the
most brutal, evil, vile acts any people can do on the face of the earth.
I, with a German, Italian, Czech background, can only wonder in amazement
that merely a few years ago, this stuff happened. It boggles my mind. I do
feel I was there in another life. I'm only jumping in and passing on
things I have read. I am looking at all with an open mind. I detest
anything authoritarian. 

I don't believe what I have been told. I read some things that open my
eyes. I pass them on to see what happens. I think the truth is somewhere
in between. I appreciate your reply. I soak up all like a sponge and every
once in a while, I squeeze out the over flow. That's what's been spewing
forth from my keyboard. I am an ignorant individual, as I wasn't there (at
least in my current form). I could go on forever. I need to focus on the
now, all the while remembering the past.

You have been doing this for some time, it shows. Don't confuse me with a
denier. I won't deny. I question what I hear. One thing, please tell me,
based on all your studies, how many died total and how many were jews?

Also, what's your comment regarding the following web pages;
http://www.air-photo.com/altered/alteredpic.html. I look forward to your
response.

Cheers...

chris

Here's a couple of my bogus emails;
------------------
Return-Path: 
Received: from marist.chi.il.us by gemini.adnc.com (SMI-8.6/SVR4 Mailer
ADN 1/96)
        id KAA25828; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 10:37:09 -0800
Received: from ghj@ixf.net(really [161.32.228.113]) by marist.chi.il.us
        via sendmail with smtp
        id 
        for ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:32:28 -0600 (CST)
        (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2 built 1996-Oct-5)
X-UIDL: 851049612.034
From: ghj@ixf.net
Message-Id: 
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:32:28 -0600 (CST)
To: christ@adnc.com
Subject: �ӊωԐ��gbu��laqr
X-mailer: Up Yours 3.0 By Global KOS 
Content-Type: text
Status: U


cat humping droppings mangy hosedork wad geekcaptain ass gasket goat utter
cock smeller dick smoker 
-------------------------

and another (There were about 900 of these);
----------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:28:15 -0800
From: 
To: 
X-Priority: 1
Subject:  Bugger off, ye hoser!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Status: RO

Don't ever do what you did to me again, you hoser  :(

---------------------------

One more;

---------------------

From: mgnvs@gxapjdod.com
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 96 11:36 MST
To: christ@adnc.com
Subject: idtmv���ZX�pa�ve��p�h́


pecker cue ball nude pee-wee blood swiller dork swiller rectal thermometer
fuck you dog fucker fishydick cyst butt sucker oily toxic scum king waste 

--------------------

can you help me track the  guy down, I think it was a student @ Wabush
univ in canada. Here's a email from someone there;
----------------
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 11:00:26 -0500 (EST)
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by WABASH.EDU
From: Bill Doemel 
Subject: "Mail Bomb" from Wabash College
X-Sender: doemelb@wabash.edu
To: christ@adnc.com
Cc: weaverb@scholar.wabash.edu
MIME-version: 1.0

Hello,
Last evening, I was contcated by the Postmaster at IND.NET and informed
that your account had received thousands of mail messages from a computer
on our campus. While we have identifed the machine, we have not been able
to identify the person. If you know someone who is at Wabash College who
could have sent the message to you, I would appreciate knowing his name or
their names.


Thank you.

Bill Doemel


**************************************************************
William Doemel                    mailto:Bill.doemel@wabash.edu
Director of Computer Services     Phone: (317) 361-6311
Wabash College                    FAX: (317) 361-6277
PO Box 352 / 301 West Wabash Ave  http://www.wabash.edu/
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
USA

---------------------


If you can track them down, thanks in advance!!!
Chris
-------------------------------------------------


>In article ,
>Chris Winkler  wrote:
>>In article <59i7lb$7sn@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rcgraves@disposable.com
>>(Rich Graves) wrote:
>>
>>> The particular bit of nonsense that you reposted, which was not put
>>> together by an engineer, is answered in several parts at:
>>> 
>>>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rimland.ingrid/science.01
>>>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rimland.ingrid/science.02
>>> 
>>> See also:
>>> 
>>>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/lagace.ivan/
>>> -- 
>>
>>I don't buy the arguements you list in science .01 above. First off, what
>>about the bones. Sure the meat & fat will burn in 23-30 minutes. But bones
>>take a long time. just look at any murder scene where someone tries to
>>burn a body. It only gets scorched. It takes tremendous ammts. of heat.
>
>    In fact, it takes more than even a commercial crematorium can
>generate.  They just fracture at best.  Even at a commercial site they
>have to be pulverized either mechanically or manually - as witnesses
>testified was done at Auschwitz.
>
>
>>Also the bodies don't self-combust. Where did you find that nonsense.
>
>    I think you misunderstand.  (It might not have been the world's best
>phrasing.)  Rather, bodies take a great deal of heat to begin ignition,
>_but_ once that initial energy loan is made, they pay it back with
>interest.  The Topf patent gives a total calorie figure for a 70kg human
>body; I think there's a copy somewhere on Nizkor. 
>
>
>>There wasn't any fat on the dead, they were fed a starvation diet.
>
>    The dead who were in the camps for a while, yes.  But the people
>killed immediately on arrival, especially the Hungarians, had normal body
>fat.
>
>
>>Humans
>>don''t self-combust. Also I can't accept the fact that the fires were self
>>perpetuating. Give me a break. You make the point the bodies were the fuel
>>and no additional fuel was needed. 
>>that doesn't make sense.
>
>    It does if you consider the fact that a) the human body is itself fuel
>once it hits ignition temperature, and b) the initial coke load of an oven
>isn't quite spent when the first body goes in.  Walter Mueller said that
>after the third body there had been enough heat loss from the oven to
>require a little refueling, but not the same amount as was needed to start
>the first body.
>
>    The "self-combusting" claim is simply that once started, each body
>provides enough net energy to ignite the next.  The entire system (oven
>and chimney) loses enough to reuqire occasional additional fuel, but
>according to what Walter Mueller of Allach said, it's a fairly slow rate
>of net loss if you keep the process going continuously.
>
>    Think of a fireplace log.  It is not self-combusting in the sense that
>it spontaneously ignites.  You need a match, then tinder, then kindling. 
>However, once you get it going, you can then put in a second log and it
>will ignite from the energy provided by the first log.  You can repeat
>this process indefinitely.  Bodies are not as potent a fuel as logs, but
>they do give off more energy in burning than it takes to ignite them.
>
>    The key difference between Auschwitz and a normal crematorium is that
>at Auschwitz they did not have to worry about complete separation and
>recovery of the ashes.  This large reduction in cleanout time would
>greatly reduce the amount of heat lost to the outside environment without
>being used to ignite the next body. 
>
>
>>You are right about a lot of mud slinging & hate here. If you even dare to
>>raise any questions, your group, just a "bunch of folks" will call them
>>every name in the book.
>
>    I see we were remiss.  You, sir, are a frumious bandersnatch!
>
>    There, _now_ you can say you've been called every name in the book.
>
>
>>Your group is alive and well and has an agenda.  It's $$$$.
>
>    Speaking only for myself, in the interests of full disclosure I must
>report my total compensation received to date for my work for Nizkor: 
>
>    Food and lodging in San Antonio, graciously provided by another member
>of the Nizkor volunteer crew who has done fairly well financially (I paid
>my own airfare).
>
>    One bottle of Okanagon Springs Porter, courtesy of Ken McVay.  (Very
>tasty stuff, I might add.)
>
>    I happen to know that Ken McVay did this for years without getting a
>cent, and in fact his recent notoriety is the result of a supporter (who
>wishes to remain anonymous) who beat the bushes to try to get him some
>assistance in upgrading his ancient equipment. 
>
>
>>I don't have the time to keep coming back here and debating
>>these facts. Seems Nizkor has the money and time to keep this going. Me, I
>>have to pay the rent.
>
>    So do I.  But I do give what time I can, and it isn't for money.  (And
>what it _is_ for, I suspect, is quite different from what _anyone_
>thinks.) 
>
>    Posted/emailed.
In article <59k3pr$llt@access1.digex.net>, mstein@access1.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
> Chris Winkler  wrote:
> >In article <59i7lb$7sn@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rcgraves@disposable.com
> >(Rich Graves) wrote:
> >
> >> The particular bit of nonsense that you reposted, which was not put
> >> together by an engineer, is answered in several parts at:
> >> 
> >>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rimland.ingrid/science.01
> >>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/rimland.ingrid/science.02
> >> 
> >> See also:
> >> 
> >>  http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/lagace.ivan/
> >> -- 
> >
> >I don't buy the arguements you list in science .01 above. First off, what
> >about the bones. Sure the meat & fat will burn in 23-30 minutes. But bones
> >take a long time. just look at any murder scene where someone tries to
> >burn a body. It only gets scorched. It takes tremendous ammts. of heat.
> 
>     In fact, it takes more than even a commercial crematorium can
> generate.  They just fracture at best.  Even at a commercial site they
> have to be pulverized either mechanically or manually - as witnesses
> testified was done at Auschwitz.
> 
> 
> >Also the bodies don't self-combust. Where did you find that nonsense.
> 
>     I think you misunderstand.  (It might not have been the world's best
> phrasing.)  Rather, bodies take a great deal of heat to begin ignition,
> _but_ once that initial energy loan is made, they pay it back with
> interest.  The Topf patent gives a total calorie figure for a 70kg human
> body; I think there's a copy somewhere on Nizkor. 
> 
> 
> >There wasn't any fat on the dead, they were fed a starvation diet.
> 
>     The dead who were in the camps for a while, yes.  But the people
> killed immediately on arrival, especially the Hungarians, had normal body
> fat.
> 
> 
> >Humans
> >don''t self-combust. Also I can't accept the fact that the fires were self
> >perpetuating. Give me a break. You make the point the bodies were the fuel
> >and no additional fuel was needed. 
> >that doesn't make sense.
> 
>     It does if you consider the fact that a) the human body is itself fuel
> once it hits ignition temperature, and b) the initial coke load of an oven
> isn't quite spent when the first body goes in.  Walter Mueller said that
> after the third body there had been enough heat loss from the oven to
> require a little refueling, but not the same amount as was needed to start
> the first body.
> 
>     The "self-combusting" claim is simply that once started, each body
> provides enough net energy to ignite the next.  The entire system (oven
> and chimney) loses enough to reuqire occasional additional fuel, but
> according to what Walter Mueller of Allach said, it's a fairly slow rate
> of net loss if you keep the process going continuously.
> 
>     Think of a fireplace log.  It is not self-combusting in the sense that
> it spontaneously ignites.  You need a match, then tinder, then kindling. 
> However, once you get it going, you can then put in a second log and it
> will ignite from the energy provided by the first log.  You can repeat
> this process indefinitely.  Bodies are not as potent a fuel as logs, but
> they do give off more energy in burning than it takes to ignite them.
> 
>     The key difference between Auschwitz and a normal crematorium is that
> at Auschwitz they did not have to worry about complete separation and
> recovery of the ashes.  This large reduction in cleanout time would
> greatly reduce the amount of heat lost to the outside environment without
> being used to ignite the next body. 
> 
> 
> >You are right about a lot of mud slinging & hate here. If you even dare to
> >raise any questions, your group, just a "bunch of folks" will call them
> >every name in the book.
> 
>     I see we were remiss.  You, sir, are a frumious bandersnatch!
> 
>     There, _now_ you can say you've been called every name in the book.
> 
> 
> >Your group is alive and well and has an agenda.  It's $$$$.
> 
>     Speaking only for myself, in the interests of full disclosure I must
> report my total compensation received to date for my work for Nizkor: 
> 
>     Food and lodging in San Antonio, graciously provided by another member
> of the Nizkor volunteer crew who has done fairly well financially (I paid
> my own airfare).
> 
>     One bottle of Okanagon Springs Porter, courtesy of Ken McVay.  (Very
> tasty stuff, I might add.)
> 
>     I happen to know that Ken McVay did this for years without getting a
> cent, and in fact his recent notoriety is the result of a supporter (who
> wishes to remain anonymous) who beat the bushes to try to get him some
> assistance in upgrading his ancient equipment. 
> 
> 
> >I don't have the time to keep coming back here and debating
> >these facts. Seems Nizkor has the money and time to keep this going. Me, I
> >have to pay the rent.
> 
>     So do I.  But I do give what time I can, and it isn't for money.  (And
> what it _is_ for, I suspect, is quite different from what _anyone_
> thinks.) 
> 
>     Posted/emailed.
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.


From christ@adnc.com Wed Dec 25 20:35:24 PST 1996
Article: 88625 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!xenitec!zenox.com!news2.insinc.net!news.insinc.net!thor.cal.sfl.net!demon.uunet.ca!news.uunet.ca!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!taurus!adnline340.adnc.com!user
From: christ@adnc.com (Chris Winkler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "The Final Solution"?  What Is That A Chemistry Term Or Something?
Date: 19 Dec 1996 05:50:34 GMT
Organization: adnc.com
Lines: 9
Message-ID: 
References: <598aqq$dla@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>
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In article <598aqq$dla@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>, Jeff
 wrote:

> hahha.  Sorry, couldn't resist...
> 
> Speaking of resist, have you been to http://www.resist.com lately?  They
> always have a nice weekly comic up.

here's another good site; http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/


From christ@adnc.com Wed Dec 25 23:06:25 PST 1996
Article: 88675 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!taurus!adnline340.adnc.com!user
From: christ@adnc.com (Chris Winkler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Freedom-of-Speech Intervenors Needed!
Date: 19 Dec 1996 05:38:16 GMT
Organization: adnc.com
Lines: 200
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.158.3.40

Freedom-of-Speech Intervenors Needed! Does anyone care about free speech
anymore? I post this note as a favor for Ernst, because the freedom to
speak your mind and hold beliefs is a fundamental right of every man given
by the creator. Evil government mobsters conspire to take it away, even
here, in the U.S.A., and the rest of the so called civilized world. This
man really needs the help of anyone who believes free speech needs to be
preserved. Otherwise we sink into George Orwell or Franz Kafka inspired
totalitarianism. His address is at the end. And if you don't have a closed
mind, check out the website, and just weight the facts against what we all
have been told. Then make an informed decision. The truth always hurts.
Please don't kill the messenger!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Open Letter from the "Zundelsite" to all principled Freedom-of-Speech
activists globally:  We Are In Need Of Intervenors!


As many of you know from hundreds of articles and newscasts this past year,
the Zundelsite is arguably the best-known - and most controversial -
Website on the Internet.  We are at the cusp of the Revisionist Movement.
We are loved by many, and we are hated by some - but no one is indifferent
to us.

We are engaged in a struggle to revise history - so as to bring history in
accord with the FACTS, not propaganda.  We have no membership.  We are not
affiliated with any political groups.  We are merely asking for scientific,
forensic EVIDENCE justifying widely-held political and financial claims
adversely affecting German people world-wide that the "Holocaust" is indeed
what it is marketed to be.

We were attacked by the German state via Deutsche Telekom in January of
this year which caused the first-ever Internet shutdown of 1500 sites
located at Web Communications in California to prevent people from reaching
our Internet website and participate in, or at least observe, an announced
Holocaust Debate.

We were attacked again and, in effect, politically X-rated in a
precedent-setting censorship move this past summer when the German Ministry
for the Family and the Aged decided that eight of our documents were
"socially disorienting" to minors - because they questioned the
"officially" decreed Holocaust history used to indoctrinate youngsters in
schools in Germany.

We now face a MAJOR censorship assault and possible shutdown of the
Zundelsite by a Canadian organization called the "Canadian Human Rights
Commission" which has decided that the global Internet is a "telephone"
and, hence, falls under the jurisdiction of the CHRC.  This outfit has the
"right" to shut down telephone messages deemed "hateful" by them.  (This
would be similar to telephone info- or hotlines using tape-recorded
messages.)  The Internet is seen by those running the HCRC as embodying a
similar technological rationale.

Ernst Zundel is a German living in Canada.  The Zundelsite is physically
located in the United States.  The person heading CHRC, Maxwell Yalden, has
recently been appointed to a UN advisory position - which means that the
controversy involving the Zundelsite will move straight to the United
Nations level.  The irony of the situation is that Max Yalden, the CHRC's
chief commissioner, ought to be expected to protect human rights, including
the universal right to Free Speech - not stifle or deny that right.

Yet just the opposite is true.  Yalden and his cohorts are abusing the
process by arbitrarily applying their laws to stifle only people of
Zundel's opinion.

Ernst Zundel has stated many times that the Zundelsite has as its mission
the rehabilitation of the honor and reputation of the German nation and
people.  Specifically, the Zundelsite challenges the traditional version of
the "Holocaust" - an Allied propaganda tool concocted during World War II -
that is NOT based on historical fact but is a cleverly used ploy to keep
the German wartime generation and their descendants in perpetual political,
moral, emotional, spiritual and financial bondage.

The Zundelsite challenges three specific, commonly accepted, monstrous lies
pertaining to the "Holocaust":

        * that there ever was a Fuehrer order for the genocidal killings
          of Jews, Gypsies and others

        * that the chief murder weapon or instrument for the alleged
          mass killing, called a "gas chamber," was designed for the
          express purpose of targeting groups of human beings like Jews

        * that the numbers of victims claimed to have been killed are
          anywhere near the number of people who actually died in
          concentration camps of whatever cause - including lack of
          food, lack of shelter and medicines, epidemics, old age and the
vagaries of total war.

To claim that World War II was fought by the Germans, as the Holocaust
Promotion Lobby incessantly claims, just to kill off the Jews as a group,
is a deliberately planned, systematic deception amounting to financial,
political, emotional and spiritual extortion. The "Holocaust," first
propagandized as a tragedy, has over time deteriorated into a racket
cloaked in the tenets of a new temporal religion - replete with martyrs to
the Faith, holy shrines, high priests like Wiesel and Goldhagen, and
theologians of the Faith such as Raul Hilberg, Deborah Lipstadt et al.

The "Holocaust" is NOT a Faith.  It is alleged history.  It is high time to
subject the "Holocaust" to public scrutiny - just as any other historical
issue has been subjected to public scrutiny since time immemorial.

That is precisely what we want.  We want no more - no less.

We want unfettered public examination and discussion of the EVIDENCE as we
have found it and continue to find it.  Our ultimate political goal is a
neutral international symposium with full access to still classified World
War II documents held by all nations willing to look at and evaluate our
evidence in an unbiased manner - and the Holocaust promoters' claims as
well.

We will stand tall if we are right.  We will self-destruct if we are wrong.
That's it.

Until this happens, the Zundelsite intends to function as an information
outreach source. The Zundelsite documents will prove in many different ways
- statistically, forensically, and logically - that it is historically
inaccurate, emotionally misleading and cruelly unfair to Germans everywhere
to claim the "Holocaust" took place in the form portrayed by the
conventional media, most institutions of learning and mainstream media, and
especially by writers like Wiesel, Hilberg and Goldhagen.

The Zundelsite is dedicated to the sacred belief held by all independent
people everywhere that a truly democratic society does not need to fear,
suppress and persecute an alternate view of history, culture, race,
religion or politics.  In truly democratic societies, a citizen is
duty-bound to inform himself and others of a threat to the public welfare
and to act in defense of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That is what we are doing - by our research, and by publishing our
findings. We believe in truth, freedom, fairness and justice for all - not
just for the privileged, politically correct and well-connected wealthy
few.  The German people have a rightful claim to fairness.  After over
fifty years of suppression, persecution and massive disinformation, we ask
that the World community grant the Germans, as individuals and as a group,
the right to free themselves - peacefully and legally! - from the mental
shackles of defeat imposed on them since 1945.   We ask that they be given,
too, the right to full free speech and to unfettered inquiry into their own
history!

We believe in Article 19 of the United Nations Charter on Human Rights
which encourages us to inform ourselves and others across state lines and
frontiers by all means possible - especially when abuses, wrongdoing and
criminal acts occur - even by people in high positions endowed with
enormous authority, hiding their abuses behind a veneer of supposed
"legality", as is the case at hand with the Canadian Human Rights
Commission now trying to shut down the Zundelsite!

The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights reads as follows:

     "Everyone has the right of freedom of opinion and expression; this
right includes freedom to hold opinion without interference and to seek,
receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless
of frontiers."

This is a call and plea to all fair-minded people everywhere regardless of
race or religion - inside and outside of governments, Human Rights
Organizations, and disciplines in various fields TO HELP US AS ACTIVE
INTERVENORS in the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal Hearings, which are to
start this month.  There is NO TIME TO LOSE!

Specifically, we are looking for the following:

*       legal experts in international law
*       experts in mass communications, especially in electronic
communications, who can explain to a lay panel what tools and methods have
evolved and have been and are now being used pertaining to the Internet
*       experts on terrorism and counter-terrorism, conflict resolution etc.
*       experts on the history of how occupied people can, and have, freed
themselves from subjugation and bondage by non-violent means
*       experts on the United States RICO statutes pertaining to extortion
racketeering on a national and global scale (the "Holocaust" may fit the
crime!)
*       censorship experts
*       linguists and experts in social control who can testify to the
impact of words on the mind

The Zundelsite is pioneering freedom on the Internet.  We don't ask that
you like us or that you agree with us.  We only ask that you be fair - and
act according to your conscience.  You Freedom Fighters on the Net have
been so generous to us at the beginning of the year when we were totally
unknown and barely alive in cyberspace.  You cloned the Zundelsite.  Please
help us now - not just for our sake.  For future generations.  We need you
- more than ever.

Please e-mail your response as soon as possible to  ezundel@cts.com.

Ernst Zundel
206 Carlton Street
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
M 5 A 2 L 1






________
________
________ The Zundelsite can be found at
http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/

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