The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/vicksell.ross/1995/vicksell.0595


From schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu Tue May  9 06:03:00 PDT 1995
Article: 21225 of alt.revisionism
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From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The man with no shame
Date: 8 May 1995 05:14:15 GMT
Organization: Philosophers of the Dangerous Maybe
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In article ,
Ross Vicksell  explains what he meant by

>: >I still waiting for the anti-revisionist explanation of why most of the
>: >Auschwitz inmate deaths happened in the last seven months.  After all,
>: >this was AFTER Himmler supposedly called off gassings in Poland.  

after I pointed out that the last seven months of Auschwitz's existence
included five months before the cessation of mass gassing:

>Simpler still. I meant Dach[au].

(followed by statistics for death rates in Dachau)

I hope you are aware that this doesn't help your argument any.  If you were
talking about Dachau, why bring up Poland? Dachau isn't anywhere near
Poland, so the cessation of gassings there is of limited relevance.
Unless you want to argue that there is a relationship between the 
cessation of gassings, evacuation of the Eastern camps to concentration
camps inside Germany, and the overcrowding of those camps.  Which, as I
said, doesn't help you any; for example, you might begin by considering
the level of rations given to those people evacuated from Auschwitz in
January 1945.
--
					Richard Schultz

"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"


From schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu Tue May  9 16:13:46 PDT 1995
Article: 21225 of alt.revisionism
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From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The man with no shame
Date: 8 May 1995 05:14:15 GMT
Organization: Philosophers of the Dangerous Maybe
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3ok9b7$dao@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <9504172028.AA01223@lems24.lems.brown.edu>  <3o4cvg$d01@agate.berkeley.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  explains what he meant by

>: >I still waiting for the anti-revisionist explanation of why most of the
>: >Auschwitz inmate deaths happened in the last seven months.  After all,
>: >this was AFTER Himmler supposedly called off gassings in Poland.  

after I pointed out that the last seven months of Auschwitz's existence
included five months before the cessation of mass gassing:

>Simpler still. I meant Dach[au].

(followed by statistics for death rates in Dachau)

I hope you are aware that this doesn't help your argument any.  If you were
talking about Dachau, why bring up Poland? Dachau isn't anywhere near
Poland, so the cessation of gassings there is of limited relevance.
Unless you want to argue that there is a relationship between the 
cessation of gassings, evacuation of the Eastern camps to concentration
camps inside Germany, and the overcrowding of those camps.  Which, as I
said, doesn't help you any; for example, you might begin by considering
the level of rations given to those people evacuated from Auschwitz in
January 1945.
--
					Richard Schultz

"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"


From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sun May 21 21:10:36 PDT 1995
Article: 21471 of alt.revisionism
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From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 17 May 1995 13:43 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes...
>Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>>Meir Halevi - alias Marvin Weinstein, leader of the Canadian Jewish 
>>Defence League, tried to get past construction bosrding into Ernst 
>>Zuendel's property. Irv Rubin, JDL leader of Los Angeles of Los Angeles, 
>>was with with Weinstein.  A female from the ARA leadership was also with 
>>them.

>>Zuendel security people and cameras recorded the attackers,  Zuendel, who 
>>gave chase in a police cruiser, identified the assailants and police 
>>questioned them and released them without charge. 

>...  
>    On what basis do you call the incident an "attack" and the people
>"assailants?"  Nothing in the post indicates that the people were doing
>anything violent or even had anything with them which could have been used
>a weapon.  They seem to have "attacked" in broad daylight in the presence
>of Zundel's security people - rather strange behavior, don't you think? 

    Surely if there really is a video recording of these people doing
    something neferious on Zuendel's property, the video will be sold (er,
    given away) fairly soon right here in this conference.  Zuendel
    wouldn't keep such juicy evidence - if he really had it - to himself.

===========================================================================
daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh


From quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz Sun May 21 21:10:54 PDT 1995
Article: 21492 of alt.revisionism
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From: quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 19 May 1995 06:49:21 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council, Public Access
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codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

>Meir Halevi - alias Marvin Weinstein, leader of the Canadian Jewish 
>Defence League, tried to get past construction bosrding into Ernst 
>Zuendel's property. Irv Rubin, JDL leader of Los Angeles of Los Angeles, 
>was with with Weinstein.  A female from the ARA leadership was also with 
>them.

   Where's the proof, Ross ?

>Zuendel security people and cameras recorded the attackers,  Zuendel, who 
>gave chase in a police cruiser, identified the assailants and police 
>questioned them and released them without charge. 

   The proof, Ross ?

   Since Zuendel isn't a policeman, it's obvious that this claim that he
"gave chase" in a police cruiser is a lie. Since that's a lie, it's clear
that this whole ZuendelHoax scheme is a complete fabrication.

   Show us the burnt house, Ross. Not forged pictures of it, but the actual
house.

- Tony Q.
---
Tony Quirke, Journeyman Semiotician At Arms, Wellington, New Zealand
 "It's later than you think. There's a warrant out on Tinkerbell for child
  kidnap." - A Friend of Fernando Poo


From quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz Sun May 21 21:10:56 PDT 1995
Article: 21493 of alt.revisionism
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From: quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 19 May 1995 06:52:12 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council, Public Access
Lines: 26
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codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:
>Barry Shein (bzs@world.std.com) wrote:

>: *WE* are the ones standing against the dark forces of terror, mayhem
>: and barbarianism and arguing in favor civilization.

>I'm afraid that your side wins running away in "the dark forces of 
>terror, mayhem, and barbarism" department: the fire bombings of the 
>Zuendel home and the IHR headquarters, the attacks on Faurisson, etc.
>The best we have to offer is a couple of drunken Revere teenagers playing at 
>being revisionists and knocking over a couple of tombstones in a Jewish 
>cemetery.

   ...and the over eleven million innocent men, women and children murdered
by your kind.

   Let us never forget them, Ross.

   In all your lies, with all your arguments, you cannot make us forget
them, Ross. 

- Tony Q.
---
Tony Quirke, Journeyman Semiotician At Arms, Wellington, New Zealand
 "It's later than you think. There's a warrant out on Tinkerbell for child
  kidnap." - A Friend of Fernando Poo


From codfish@netcom.com Sun May 21 21:10:59 PDT 1995
Article: 21495 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3pef6p$1u8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 07:05:02 GMT
Lines: 13
Sender: codfish@netcom11.netcom.com

HMazal (hmazal@aol.com) wrote:
: For some time Mr. Vicksell has been on about how Allied bombings of Nazi
: railroads were responsible for the lack of food in the camps. He has
: asserted that starvation was not a Nazi policy but rather that the Allies
: were at fault for any lack of food at the camps.

There was also gross overcrowding, especially at Belsen, as Josef Kramer 
himself bitterly complained.

Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
prisoners, who were in control of this operation.

                   Ross Vicksell


From bzs@world.std.com Sun May 21 21:11:02 PDT 1995
Article: 21497 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Fri, 19 May 1995 07:05:02 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3pef6p$1u8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 07:38:37 GMT
Lines: 47


>Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
>prisoners, who were in control of this operation.
>
>                   Ross Vicksell

I want to know something.

Do you really believe this crap?

Or are you just being contrary?

Sure, I'm sure some German communist prisoners did something, I have
no doubt, why not. But this is why tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds
of thousands, perhaps millions) of prisoners starved to death?

Do you *honestly* believe that?

C'mon, CAH-MAHN!

They killed them Ross, that's all, they killed them.

I don't know what your problem is but this gets sillier with every
note.

Imagine, a concentration camp, run by SS guards. Tens of thousands are
literally dropping dead of starvation, being turned into walking
skeletons.

Ross Vicksell thinks this may've been caused by some prisoners not
distributing food fairly.

The SS etc are completely helpless, in the face of this, to do
anything about it. They are forced to stand by and watch tens of
thousands starve to death, unable to make any difference in the
outcome. Oh dear, what shall we do?! Tens of thousands starving to
death, those darn communist prisoners, they just won't play nice.

C'mon...CAH-MAHN!

Don't you feel foolish saying things like this sometimes, Ross?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From jaklein@news.amherst.edu Sun May 21 21:11:04 PDT 1995
Article: 21498 of alt.revisionism
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From: jaklein@news.amherst.edu (Josh Klein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
Date: 19 May 1995 09:28:16 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA, USA
Lines: 33
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Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> HMazal (hmazal@aol.com) wrote:
> : For some time Mr. Vicksell has been on about how Allied bombings of Nazi
> : railroads were responsible for the lack of food in the camps. He has
> : asserted that starvation was not a Nazi policy but rather that the Allies
> : were at fault for any lack of food at the camps.

[SEVERAL SCREENS OF MR. MAZAL'S POST DELETED BY VICKSELL

> There was also gross overcrowding, especially at Belsen, as Josef Kramer 
> himself bitterly complained.
> Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
> prisoners, who were in control of this operation.
>                    Ross Vicksell

Mr. Vicksell,
     Don't you feel a little embarrassed posting a four-line reply to
Harry Mazal's well-researched, and rather in-depth, article?
Mr. Mazal posted this article specifically to refute your claim that
Allied attacks had disrupted the food distribution lines that would
otherwise have kept the Jewish enemies of the Reich quite well-fed
and comfortable.  But, as Mazal has shown, there was plenty of food
quite close to the camps.  Are you alledging that allied bombing
disrupted the flow of food over the one mile from the Panzer training
center to the concentration camp?

     Isn't it a little ridiculous that immediately after Mr. Mazal
refutes one of your unsupported claims, you proceed to make another
one up, and presume the burden falls on him, again, to disprove it?

--
Josh Klein
Amherst College


From mstein@access1.digex.net Sun May 21 21:11:12 PDT 1995
Article: 21507 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
Date: 19 May 1995 09:08:10 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3pi57q$80j@access1.digex.net>
References: <3pef6p$1u8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
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In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>There was also gross overcrowding, especially at Belsen, as Josef Kramer 
>himself bitterly complained.
>
>Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
>prisoners, who were in control of this operation.

     Let me get this straight.  It has been posted that there was ample
food at a panzer training school a mile up the road which was not given to
the prisoners.  Your response is that there was overcrowding - is this
supposed to mean that trucks to deliver the food couldn't get through the
crowds blocking the road?  Or what?

    You also say that the food was maldistributed by the prisoners, who
were in control of the operation.  They let prisoners run the food
distribution at the panzer training school?  Is this what you're saying,
Ross?  I am shocked that the Germans gave such power and freedom to the
prisoners.  Could you kindly provide some sort of documentation for this
amazing assertion?

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From hkatz@earth.usa.net Sun May 21 21:11:18 PDT 1995
Article: 21514 of alt.revisionism
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From: hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 19 May 1995 10:06:38 -0600
Organization: Large
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In article , 
Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) writes:

	As I said, we revisionists are hard up for violent types in 
	our ranks; we're basically peaceful sorts. 

"Basically peaceful sorts" whose irresponsible and inflammatory rhetoric 
encourages others, especially impressionable youngsters, to commit acts 
of violence.  Is it merely coincidence that the number of anti-Jewish 
incidents on college campuses have increased steadily every year since 
Bradley Smith started paying to have his vicious smears appear in college 
newspapers?


--
Harry Katz

Better eat onions all thy life than dine upon geese and chickens once
and then long in vain for more ever after.
	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.


From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sun May 21 22:23:21 PDT 1995
Article: 21471 of alt.revisionism
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From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 17 May 1995 13:43 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes...
>Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>>Meir Halevi - alias Marvin Weinstein, leader of the Canadian Jewish 
>>Defence League, tried to get past construction bosrding into Ernst 
>>Zuendel's property. Irv Rubin, JDL leader of Los Angeles of Los Angeles, 
>>was with with Weinstein.  A female from the ARA leadership was also with 
>>them.

>>Zuendel security people and cameras recorded the attackers,  Zuendel, who 
>>gave chase in a police cruiser, identified the assailants and police 
>>questioned them and released them without charge. 

>...  
>    On what basis do you call the incident an "attack" and the people
>"assailants?"  Nothing in the post indicates that the people were doing
>anything violent or even had anything with them which could have been used
>a weapon.  They seem to have "attacked" in broad daylight in the presence
>of Zundel's security people - rather strange behavior, don't you think? 

    Surely if there really is a video recording of these people doing
    something neferious on Zuendel's property, the video will be sold (er,
    given away) fairly soon right here in this conference.  Zuendel
    wouldn't keep such juicy evidence - if he really had it - to himself.

===========================================================================
daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (520) 621-2932

       "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do..."  -- Joe Walsh


From quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz Sun May 21 22:23:39 PDT 1995
Article: 21492 of alt.revisionism
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From: quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 19 May 1995 06:49:21 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council, Public Access
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3phf1h$mt6@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
References: 
Reply-To: quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix.wcc.govt.nz

codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

>Meir Halevi - alias Marvin Weinstein, leader of the Canadian Jewish 
>Defence League, tried to get past construction bosrding into Ernst 
>Zuendel's property. Irv Rubin, JDL leader of Los Angeles of Los Angeles, 
>was with with Weinstein.  A female from the ARA leadership was also with 
>them.

   Where's the proof, Ross ?

>Zuendel security people and cameras recorded the attackers,  Zuendel, who 
>gave chase in a police cruiser, identified the assailants and police 
>questioned them and released them without charge. 

   The proof, Ross ?

   Since Zuendel isn't a policeman, it's obvious that this claim that he
"gave chase" in a police cruiser is a lie. Since that's a lie, it's clear
that this whole ZuendelHoax scheme is a complete fabrication.

   Show us the burnt house, Ross. Not forged pictures of it, but the actual
house.

- Tony Q.
---
Tony Quirke, Journeyman Semiotician At Arms, Wellington, New Zealand
 "It's later than you think. There's a warrant out on Tinkerbell for child
  kidnap." - A Friend of Fernando Poo


From quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz Sun May 21 22:23:41 PDT 1995
Article: 21493 of alt.revisionism
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From: quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 19 May 1995 06:52:12 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council, Public Access
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3phf6s$mt6@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
References:   ,
Reply-To: quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix.wcc.govt.nz

codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:
>Barry Shein (bzs@world.std.com) wrote:

>: *WE* are the ones standing against the dark forces of terror, mayhem
>: and barbarianism and arguing in favor civilization.

>I'm afraid that your side wins running away in "the dark forces of 
>terror, mayhem, and barbarism" department: the fire bombings of the 
>Zuendel home and the IHR headquarters, the attacks on Faurisson, etc.
>The best we have to offer is a couple of drunken Revere teenagers playing at 
>being revisionists and knocking over a couple of tombstones in a Jewish 
>cemetery.

   ...and the over eleven million innocent men, women and children murdered
by your kind.

   Let us never forget them, Ross.

   In all your lies, with all your arguments, you cannot make us forget
them, Ross. 

- Tony Q.
---
Tony Quirke, Journeyman Semiotician At Arms, Wellington, New Zealand
 "It's later than you think. There's a warrant out on Tinkerbell for child
  kidnap." - A Friend of Fernando Poo


From codfish@netcom.com Sun May 21 22:23:43 PDT 1995
Article: 21495 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 07:05:02 GMT
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HMazal (hmazal@aol.com) wrote:
: For some time Mr. Vicksell has been on about how Allied bombings of Nazi
: railroads were responsible for the lack of food in the camps. He has
: asserted that starvation was not a Nazi policy but rather that the Allies
: were at fault for any lack of food at the camps.

There was also gross overcrowding, especially at Belsen, as Josef Kramer 
himself bitterly complained.

Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
prisoners, who were in control of this operation.

                   Ross Vicksell


From bzs@world.std.com Sun May 21 22:23:46 PDT 1995
Article: 21497 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!bwra.mcs.csuhayward.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!demon!btnet!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Fri, 19 May 1995 07:05:02 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3pef6p$1u8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 07:38:37 GMT
Lines: 47


>Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
>prisoners, who were in control of this operation.
>
>                   Ross Vicksell

I want to know something.

Do you really believe this crap?

Or are you just being contrary?

Sure, I'm sure some German communist prisoners did something, I have
no doubt, why not. But this is why tens of thousands (perhaps hundreds
of thousands, perhaps millions) of prisoners starved to death?

Do you *honestly* believe that?

C'mon, CAH-MAHN!

They killed them Ross, that's all, they killed them.

I don't know what your problem is but this gets sillier with every
note.

Imagine, a concentration camp, run by SS guards. Tens of thousands are
literally dropping dead of starvation, being turned into walking
skeletons.

Ross Vicksell thinks this may've been caused by some prisoners not
distributing food fairly.

The SS etc are completely helpless, in the face of this, to do
anything about it. They are forced to stand by and watch tens of
thousands starve to death, unable to make any difference in the
outcome. Oh dear, what shall we do?! Tens of thousands starving to
death, those darn communist prisoners, they just won't play nice.

C'mon...CAH-MAHN!

Don't you feel foolish saying things like this sometimes, Ross?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From jaklein@news.amherst.edu Sun May 21 22:23:49 PDT 1995
Article: 21498 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!simtel!news.kei.com!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.amherst.edu!jaklein
From: jaklein@news.amherst.edu (Josh Klein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
Date: 19 May 1995 09:28:16 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA, USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3phobg$bf9@amhux3.amherst.edu>
References: <3pef6p$1u8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: abby.amherst.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> HMazal (hmazal@aol.com) wrote:
> : For some time Mr. Vicksell has been on about how Allied bombings of Nazi
> : railroads were responsible for the lack of food in the camps. He has
> : asserted that starvation was not a Nazi policy but rather that the Allies
> : were at fault for any lack of food at the camps.

[SEVERAL SCREENS OF MR. MAZAL'S POST DELETED BY VICKSELL

> There was also gross overcrowding, especially at Belsen, as Josef Kramer 
> himself bitterly complained.
> Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
> prisoners, who were in control of this operation.
>                    Ross Vicksell

Mr. Vicksell,
     Don't you feel a little embarrassed posting a four-line reply to
Harry Mazal's well-researched, and rather in-depth, article?
Mr. Mazal posted this article specifically to refute your claim that
Allied attacks had disrupted the food distribution lines that would
otherwise have kept the Jewish enemies of the Reich quite well-fed
and comfortable.  But, as Mazal has shown, there was plenty of food
quite close to the camps.  Are you alledging that allied bombing
disrupted the flow of food over the one mile from the Panzer training
center to the concentration camp?

     Isn't it a little ridiculous that immediately after Mr. Mazal
refutes one of your unsupported claims, you proceed to make another
one up, and presume the burden falls on him, again, to disprove it?

--
Josh Klein
Amherst College


From mstein@access1.digex.net Sun May 21 22:23:59 PDT 1995
Article: 21507 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!news3.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Food supplies in the camps
Date: 19 May 1995 09:08:10 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3pi57q$80j@access1.digex.net>
References: <3pef6p$1u8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access1.digex.net

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>There was also gross overcrowding, especially at Belsen, as Josef Kramer 
>himself bitterly complained.
>
>Also, the food was maldistribed by those, largely German communist 
>prisoners, who were in control of this operation.

     Let me get this straight.  It has been posted that there was ample
food at a panzer training school a mile up the road which was not given to
the prisoners.  Your response is that there was overcrowding - is this
supposed to mean that trucks to deliver the food couldn't get through the
crowds blocking the road?  Or what?

    You also say that the food was maldistributed by the prisoners, who
were in control of the operation.  They let prisoners run the food
distribution at the panzer training school?  Is this what you're saying,
Ross?  I am shocked that the Germans gave such power and freedom to the
prisoners.  Could you kindly provide some sort of documentation for this
amazing assertion?

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From hkatz@earth.usa.net Sun May 21 22:24:06 PDT 1995
Article: 21514 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!csn!earth.usa.net!earth.usa.net!not-for-mail
From: hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
Date: 19 May 1995 10:06:38 -0600
Organization: Large
Lines: 20
Distribution: World
Message-ID: <3pifme$2du@earth.usa.net>
References:    
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.usa.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

In article , 
Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) writes:

	As I said, we revisionists are hard up for violent types in 
	our ranks; we're basically peaceful sorts. 

"Basically peaceful sorts" whose irresponsible and inflammatory rhetoric 
encourages others, especially impressionable youngsters, to commit acts 
of violence.  Is it merely coincidence that the number of anti-Jewish 
incidents on college campuses have increased steadily every year since 
Bradley Smith started paying to have his vicious smears appear in college 
newspapers?


--
Harry Katz

Better eat onions all thy life than dine upon geese and chickens once
and then long in vain for more ever after.
	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.


From bzs@world.std.com Tue May 23 05:22:44 PDT 1995
Article: 21526 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
In-Reply-To: kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu's message of Fri, 19 May 1995 22:56:18 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  <3phf1h$mt6@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
	
Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 01:31:34 GMT
Lines: 27


From: kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu (KUSCHEL  BORIS)
>>   Since Zuendel isn't a policeman, it's obvious that this claim that he
>>"gave chase" in a police cruiser is a lie. Since that's a lie, it's clear
>>that this whole ZuendelHoax scheme is a complete fabrication.
>>
>>   Show us the burnt house, Ross. Not forged pictures of it, but the actual
>>house.
>
>Im's sorry but Ross is correct. The house is burned. I went by it already.
>It seems you are the one who is fabricating. There goes your ZuendelHoax
>theory.

Just more questionable eye-witness "testimonies".

We haven't even established this was Zundel's house, let alone whether
it was actually burned or not.

What's your single best evidence that this was Zundel's house and that
it was burned? Perhaps we can start with that.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu Tue May 23 05:22:47 PDT 1995
Article: 21527 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!cannon.ecf!kuschel
From: kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu (KUSCHEL  BORIS)
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: skule.ecf
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@ecf.toronto.edu (News Administrator)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
References:  <3phf1h$mt6@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 22:56:18 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <3phf1h$mt6@golem.wcc.govt.nz>,   wrote:
>codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:
>
>>Meir Halevi - alias Marvin Weinstein, leader of the Canadian Jewish 
>>Defence League, tried to get past construction bosrding into Ernst 
>>Zuendel's property. Irv Rubin, JDL leader of Los Angeles of Los Angeles, 
>>was with with Weinstein.  A female from the ARA leadership was also with 
>>them.
>
>   Where's the proof, Ross ?
>
>>Zuendel security people and cameras recorded the attackers,  Zuendel, who 
>>gave chase in a police cruiser, identified the assailants and police 
>>questioned them and released them without charge. 
>
>   The proof, Ross ?
>
>   Since Zuendel isn't a policeman, it's obvious that this claim that he
>"gave chase" in a police cruiser is a lie. Since that's a lie, it's clear
>that this whole ZuendelHoax scheme is a complete fabrication.
>
>   Show us the burnt house, Ross. Not forged pictures of it, but the actual
>house.

Im's sorry but Ross is correct. The house is burned. I went by it already.
It seems you are the one who is fabricating. There goes your ZuendelHoax
theory.




From kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu Tue May 23 05:22:51 PDT 1995
Article: 21528 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.iag.net!rutgers!utcsri!cannon.ecf!kuschel
From: kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu (KUSCHEL  BORIS)
Subject: Re: Ernest Zuendel
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: skule.ecf
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@ecf.toronto.edu (News Administrator)
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
References:    <3pifme$2du@earth.usa.net>
Distribution: World
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 23:12:10 GMT
Lines: 41

In article <3pifme$2du@earth.usa.net>, Harry Katz  wrote:
>In article , 
>Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) writes:
>
>	As I said, we revisionists are hard up for violent types in 
>	our ranks; we're basically peaceful sorts. 
>
>"Basically peaceful sorts" whose irresponsible and inflammatory rhetoric 
>encourages others, especially impressionable youngsters, to commit acts 
>of violence.  Is it merely coincidence that the number of anti-Jewish 

you see things with such bias that it is laughable. You believe that the 
revisionists encourage violence? Zuendel, for example, never has said to 
take up arms. He is, in fact, a pacifist. He does not spread propaganda.
He does not force things into your face. He does not stand on street 
corner's and force feed you with revisionist theories. He does not force
anybody to agree or listen to him. In fact, you would not even no that Zuendel
existed, if it were not for all the bad press. All what people now about 
him is that he is a 'hate-monger' because that is what they read in the paper. 
My point is that there is no propaganda. Now, let's look at the people who
are against Zuendel. 
These people splatter posters of him on every bus shelter with some kind of
hateful message. The media does not have one positive thing to say. In fact,
i would say that it is HATEFUL. Many people do not know the man, and do not
know what he believes, but hate him anyhow. You see holocaust movie's on the
tc constantly and i cannot walk down the street without anybody shoving the
holocaust in my face. 
Now..tell me...where is the violence and propaganda?

  
>incidents on college campuses have increased steadily every year since 
>Bradley Smith started paying to have his vicious smears appear in college 
>newspapers?

oh really? At my campus the violence is not commited by your 'nazi' youth
but are instead created by your 'anarchists' and 'anti-racists'. They
dress up like gladiators, and here in Toronto, they are good friends with
the 'guardian angels'. An illegal organization.   
It makes me wonder, therefor, is the violence caused by Bradley Smith or
by people that wish to shut him up?



From kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca Wed May 24 20:59:19 PDT 1995
Article: 21536 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Ernest Zundel
References:  <3phf1h$mt6@golem.wcc.govt.nz> 
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995May22.224354.574@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 May 95 22:43:54 GMT
Lines: 21

In article  kuschel@ecf.toronto.edu (KUSCHEL  BORIS) writes:

>Im's sorry but Ross is correct. The house is burned. I went by it already.
>It seems you are the one who is fabricating. There goes your ZuendelHoax
>theory.

_You've_ seen it? Dear Boris, surely you are acquainted with the
position of "revisionist scholars," which asserts that eyewitness
testimony is notoriously unreliable?

So, dear Boris, which is it? Are you, as an eyewitness, reliable? If
so, why then are the "revisionist scholars" claiming that tens of
thousands of Holocaust eyewitnesses are not?

Is eyewitness testimony reliable, or is it not, dear Boris?


-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
          ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
	  web: http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca


From codfish@netcom.com Thu Jun  1 21:10:50 PDT 1995
Article: 21708 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Zuendel on Bo Gritz Show
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 07:28:12 GMT
Lines: 9
Sender: codfish@netcom17.netcom.com

Ernst Zuendel will be a guest on Bo Gritz's radio show this Friday 
morning, 10-12 EDT.  They'll be discussing, of course, the attacks on 
Zuendel's home.

The Bo Gritz program appears on many AM stations, mostly in small towns,  in 
the U.S.

                 Ross Vicksell



From codfish@netcom.com Thu Jun  1 21:10:52 PDT 1995
Article: 21709 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: My temporary absence
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 07:29:34 GMT
Lines: 6
Sender: codfish@netcom17.netcom.com

Due to some personal problems I'm having, I won't be participating in the
alt.revisionism discussion over the next month or so. 

                    Ross Vicksell




From codfish@netcom.com Fri May  5 15:19:09 PDT 1995
Article: 21134 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: The man with no shame
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <9504172028.AA01223@lems24.lems.brown.edu>   <3o4cvg$d01@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 16:28:19 GMT
Lines: 59
Sender: codfish@netcom15.netcom.com

Richard Schultz (schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: In article ,
: Ross Vicksell  wrote:

: >I still waiting for the anti-revisionist explanation of why most of the
: >Auschwitz inmate deaths happened in the last seven months.  After all,
: >this was AFTER Himmler supposedly called off gassings in Poland.  

: Auschwitz was evacuated in January 1945.  If we go back seven months, that
: takes us to some time in June 1944.   Himmler's order to stop the gassings
: took effect at the end of October 1944 (I don't have my reference books
: available to me; that date might be +/- a month).  So Vicksell's last 
: statement is already shown to be a lie.  The first sentence is not
: true, but it is true that something like 30-40% of the inmate deaths
: at Auschwitz occurred during the last seven months of its existence.
: That is because the mass deportations of Hungarian Jews took place in the
: summer of 1944.  As I recall, the number of Jews murdered in that period
: was on the order of several hundred thousand.  Most of them were taken
: directly from the trains to the gas chambers.

: So the explanation for Vicksell's diffuclty is quite simple:  the 
: large death rate at Auschwitz in its last seven months was due to the use
: of gas chambers, whose use was not stopped until the camp's final *three*
: months of existence.

: Actually, the explanation is even more simple than that: Ross Vicksell is
: a liar.

Simpler still. I meant Dachua.  What I said in full was:

: On page 4 of John Cobden's Dachau: Reality and Myth are tabulate the
: number of prisoner deaths at Dachau from February of 1940 to May of 1945
: (more or less the war years). Cobden lifted the table from Dachau
: 1933-1945, The Official History, which is a book they sell at the Dachau
: Camp Memorial Site. 66% of the deaths happened in the last 7 months.  The
: reasons are clear: overcrowding, disease, and malnutrition.  It's true
: that other prisoners, e.g. Allied POWs fared much better than the
: concentration camp inmates, but the former weren't subject to overcrowding
: and the importation of typhus and the maldistribution of rations.  There
: was no deliberate German policy of starving concentration camp inmates. 

:                   Ross Vicksell

I still waiting for the anti-revisionist explanation of why most of the
Auschwitz inmate deaths happened in the last seven months.  After all,
this was AFTER Himmler supposedly called off gassings in Poland.  It would
have made sense to concurrently stop deliberatly starving inmates in the 
Western camps. 

                      Ross Vicksell        




: --
: 					Richard Schultz

: "It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
: truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"



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