From mtaylor@studnet.champlain.edu Fri Nov  1 10:24:10 PST 1996
Article: 105638 of alt.conspiracy
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From: mike taylor 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: CONSPIRACY NATION ARCHIVE
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:59:12 -0800
Organization: Champlain College of Vermont
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John Fisher wrote:
> 
> CONSPIRACY NATION ARCHIVE
> 
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-75 Skolnick on BATF
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-76 Skolnick on OKC Bombing [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-77 CN in Time Magazine
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-78 Skolnick on OKC Bombing [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-79 OKC Bombing [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-80 Skolnick on OKC Bombing [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-81 Waco
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-82 Skolnick on Clinton
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-83 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-84 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-85 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-86 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-87 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-88 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-89 Skolnick Interviews Von Trapp
> [P-7]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-90 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-91 Skolnick on Whitewater
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-92 Skolnick on NWO [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-93 Skolnick on NWO [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-94 Skolnick on NWO [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-95 Skolnick on Swiss Bank Accounts
> [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-96 Skolnick on Swiss Bank Accounts
> [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-97 Skolnick on Janet Reno
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-98 Skolnick on Skolnick
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn4-99 Washington Times: Whitewater
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-01 Skolnick on Starr, etc. [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-02 Skolnick on Starr, etc. [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-03 Project Censored [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-04 Project Censored [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-05 Skolnick on Chicago Corruption
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-06 Skolnick on Japanese Spying
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-07 Penthouse Mena Story
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-08 Report From Iron Mountain
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-09 Skolnick on Whitewater [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-10 Skolnick on Whitewater [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-11 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-12 Great American Fortunes [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-13 Great American Fortunes [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-14 Great American Fortunes [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-19 Skolnick Interviews Povlovich
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-20 RFA:OKC Bombing [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-21 RFA:OKC Bombing [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-22 RFA:OKC Bombing [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-23 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-24 Globalization of Capital
> Production [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-25 Globalization of Capital
> Production [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-26 Skolnick on Whitewater
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-27 Globalization of Capital
> Production [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-28 Militia Testimony
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-29 Skolnick on Clinton
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-30 Skolnick on rogue grand jury
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-31 Reed Irvine on Foster
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-32 Stephen Jones Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-33 Von Trapp Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-34 Von Trapp Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-35 Von Trapp Interview [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-36 Unabomber
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-37 Edye Smith
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-38 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-39 Skolnick on Foster Murder [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-40 Skolnick on Foster Murder [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-41 Skolnick on Andreuccetti-Grabbe
> [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-42 Grabbe [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-43 Skolnick on Foster Murder [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-44 Grabbe [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-45 Skolnick on Grabbe/Norman [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-46 Skolnick on Grabbe/Norman [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-47 Skolnick on Grabbe/Norman [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-48 Grabbe [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-49 Vince Foster Murder
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-50 Von Trapp Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-51 Von Trapp Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-52 Von Trapp Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-53 Grabbe [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-54 Skolnick on Pollard and Foster
> [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-55 Skolnick on Pollard and Foster
> [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-56 AEP Responds
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-57 Larry Nichols
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-58 Ebola
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-59 Foster Files
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-60 Skolnick on Chinese Secret
> Police
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-61 Skolnick on BATF
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-62 Skolnick on Wallace Shooting
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-63 Troy Underhill Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-64 Troy Underhill Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-65 Ryder Truck Bomb
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-66 Troy Underhill Interview [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-67 Troy Underhill Interview [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-68 Troy Underhill Interview [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-69 Troy Underhill Interview [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-70 Michael Aquino
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-71 Kiri Jewell Lies
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-72 James Norman Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-73 James Norman Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-74 Kennedy Debate
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-75 Skolnick on Mena
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-76 Jean Lewis
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-77 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-78 Skolnick on Bribes
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-79 Subliminal Cartoons
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-80 Skolnick on William Hogan [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-81 Edye Smith
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-82 Skolnick on Norman [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-83 Skolnick on Norman [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-84 Skolnick on Grabbe [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-85 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-86 Skolnick on Grabbe [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-87 Skolnick on William Hogan [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-88 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-89 Skolnick on Mel Reynolds
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-90 Skolnick on Sugarman
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-91 Mel Reynolds
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-92 Randy Weaver [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-93 Randy Weaver [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-94 Korean MIA's
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-95 OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-96 Ostrovsky Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-97 Skolnick Index
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-98 McClendon Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn5-99 Terry Cook
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-01 Grabbe Index
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-02 Klunk Letter
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-03 The Money Trail [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-04 The Money Trail [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-05 Wiencek Affidavit
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-06 Rothstein Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-07 Rothstein Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-08 Skolnick on Powell
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-09 Unabomber
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-10 Rothstein Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-11 WWW Conspiracy Sites
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-12 Rothstein Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-13 Skolnick on OJ [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-14 Linda Thompson
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-15 Skolnick's Book List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-16 C.N's Book List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-17 Mrs. Herman
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-18 Rothstein Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-19 OJ Simpson
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-20 D.C. Dave
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-21 Skolnick on OJ [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-22 Rooney on OJ
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-23 Skolnick on OJ [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-24 Skolnick on OJ [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-25 Von Trapp Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-26 Skolnick on OJ [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-27 Skolnick on OJ [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-28 McVeigh's Lawyer
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-29 Prairienet
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-30 Rothstein Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-31 Skolnick on OJ [P-7]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-32 Skolnick on OJ [P-8]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-33 Skolnick Sues A.D.R.C.
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-34 Civil Search Warrants
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-35 Forged Suicide Note
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-36 Skolnick on OJ [P-9]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-37 Drugs and Prisons
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-38 Skolnick on Drugs
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-39 Rep. Burton on 60 minutes
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-40 Rep. Horn on Bosnia
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-41 Federal Internet Surveillance
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-42 HR Expert Reginald Alton
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-43 Witness Patrick Knowlton
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-44 Skolnick on OJ [P-10]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-45 Skolnick on Rabin Assassination
> [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-46 Skolnick on Rabin Assassination
> [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-47 J. Edgar Hoover
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-48 Skolnick on Judge Ito
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-49 Government Shutdown
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-51 The Bribery List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-52 Grabbe Index
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-53 The Davidian Massacre
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-54 Oil Crisis: Operation Interlink
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-55 Skolnick on OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-56 Travelgate
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-57 Skolnick on BCCI, Rabin
> Assassination
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-58 Gold Crunch
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-59 Militia Testimony
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-60 Beatle's Backwards Masking
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-61 Skolnick on Chicago Corruption
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-62 October Surprise
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-63 Senate Retirement Epidemic
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-64 CN News
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-65 Vatican Money Laundering
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-66 Rep. Dornan on Bosnia
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-67 International Corruption
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-68 Skolnick on International
> Corruption
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-69 Lockerbie cover-up [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-70 Lockerbie cover-up [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-71 Bosnian Civil War
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-72 CN's National Security Reading
> List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-73 St. Peter's Banker
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-74 Chicago Crime
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-75 The Empire of 'The City' [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-76 Skolnick on OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-77 Skolnick on Various Scandals
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-78 DC Dave on suicide
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-79 The Empire of 'The City' [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-80 The Empire of 'The City' [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-81 NAFTA and The Mexican Crisis
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-82 October Surprise: The Ladies'
> Room Files
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-83 Skolnick on Rabin Assassination
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-84 Leah Rabin and The Pope
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-85 The Naked Man
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-86 Oliver Stone's "Nixon"
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-87 Skolnick Silences Skeptics
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-88 Grabbe [P-36]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-89 Where's The Nazi Gold?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-90 Marilyn, Kennedy and The Mob
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-91 Skolnick on Clinton vs. Congress
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-92 Bloodshed in The Balkans
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-93 Haitian Rebels Massacred
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-94 1904 Headlines
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-95 Hillary's Week
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-96 1904 Headlines
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-97 The Buying of The President
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-98 RFA on OKC Bombing
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn6-99 1925 Headlines
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-01 1925 Headlines
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-02 The Norman Thesis [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-03 The Norman Thesis [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-04 The Norman Thesis [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-05 The Norman Thesis [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-06 House Panel Looks at Mena
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-07 Bovine Growth Hormone
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-08 Hoppy Heidelberg Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-09 CN Editor Whines
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-10 Von Trapp Faxes Starr
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-11 DC Dave's Poetry
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-12 CN Subscriber Info
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-13 BCCI List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-14 Reporters Fear of Mena
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-15 Skolnick on Bosnia- [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-16 Skolnick on Bosnia- [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-17 Skolnick on Bosnia- [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-18 Skolnick on Bosnia- [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-19 Skolnick on Bosnia- [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-20 Skolnick on Bosnia- [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-21 Waco Justice
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-22 Tsar Nicholas II's Burial
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-23 Web Site on Banned AIDS Book
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-24 AIDS Inc. [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-25 AIDS Inc. [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-26 Operation Silver Shovel
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-27 Major Toxic Dumping Scandals
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-28 Hotel Workers' Union
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-29 Mafia Games
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-30 Mobsters Got Into The Unions
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-31 AIDS Inc. [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-32 Oklahoma Bombing And The Media
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-33 AIDS Inc. [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-34 AIDS Inc. [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-35 AIDS Inc. [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-36 AIDS Inc. [P-7]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-37 The Oklahoma Bombing/Story of a
> Magazine
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-38 Radio Havana
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-39 Did CFR Approve Cuban Downing?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-40 The Oklahoma
> Bombings/Radioactive Cover-Up
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-41 Gulf War Syndrome [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-42 Gulf War Syndrome [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-43 Gulf War Syndrome [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-44 U.S. Complicity in the Oklahoma
> Bombings
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-45 Corroboration of BCCI Bribe List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-46 Recent OKC Bombing Speculation
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-47 Louis Farrakhan [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-48 Louis Farrakhan [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-49 Louis Farrakhan [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-50 Louis Farrakhan [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-51 News Round-Up -- 03/24/96
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-52 Ralph Nader [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-53 Ralph Nader [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-54 Skolnick on aspartame
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-56 Compromised
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-57 Ron Brown: They Can't Indict Him
> Now
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-58 Sabotage? The Crash of Ron
> Brown's Plane
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-59 Arkansas 101
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-60 Jury Tampering
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-61 Ron Brown: Entrepreneur
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-62 Barry, Vince and Ron-
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-63 Rumors Surrounding Ron Brown's
> Crash
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-64 Morris Dees and the Militia
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-65 Waco Plus Three Years [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-66 Waco Plus Three Years [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-67 Harold May Interview about Waco
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-68 Grabbe on Ron Brown
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-69 Waco Victim List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-70 OKC Bombing: One Year Later
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-71 Postmodernism
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-72 Project Censored Top 25
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-73 Skolnick on Blackmail
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-74 Spotlight Exclusive: Ron Brown
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-75 Blood Sport Duplicity
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-76 Skolnick on Paper Money
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-77 Innocent Simpson
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-78 The Lindberg kidnapping
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-79 Skolnick on William Colby
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-80 The Freemen Standoff
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-81 Privatization of The Internet
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-82 CIA Propaganda
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-83 Bugged Confession
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-84 Force and The Lie
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-85 Hightower on Halloween
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-86 Potpourri
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-87 Skolnick Interviews John DeCamp
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-88 The Franklin Coverup
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-89 The "Suicide" of Admiral Boorda
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-90 "Obstruction of Justice"
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-91 Liberals Protest NWO
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-92 Conspiracies in Book of Mormon
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-93 FBI Has No Charter
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-94 Van Gogh
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-95 Isis Unveiled
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-96 JFK Assassination Booklist
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-97 Charles Hayes' Computers
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-98 James Norman Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn7-99 James Norman Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-01 Skolnick on Einstein
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-02 Rabin assassination Book
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-03 CN on Noam Chomsky
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-04 Skolnick on Andreuccetti
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-05 John Cummings Interview
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-06 Reed v. Young
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-07 Noriega and The USA
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-08 DCIA
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-09 Freespeechnews
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-10 666 Searcher
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-11 666 Searcher
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-12 Tommy Burkett Saga
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-13 Operation Pegasus
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-14 Secret Combinations
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-15 Who is Noam Chomsky?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-16 Presidents vs. Congress
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-17 Observations By Grabbe
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-18 Skolnick on The Chicago Octopus
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-19 Donna Rice Hughes
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-20 Crooked Carlos Salinas
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-21 Skolnick on The Criminal
> Convention
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-22 June Bilderbergers meeting
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-23 Donna Rice
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-24 Skolnick on What is Really Going
> on
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-26 Lyndon Larouche
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-27 Crooked Carlos, Crooked Bill
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-28 Grabbe's "Apology and Goodbye" ;
> )
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-29 Grabbe on Wayward Woodward
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-30 Grabbe on White House Database
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-31 Marcus Antonius
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-32 Hightower on Big Oil Companies
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-33 Excerpts From'Dope Inc.'
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-34 Excerpts From'Dope Inc.'
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-35 Prohibition Conspiracies
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-36 "Journalists"
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-37 CN Alert
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-38 Hightower on Corrupt Pol Money
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-39 Atlanta Olympics
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-40 Guns And Gold
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-41 Satire vs. Waco
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-42 Skolnick on Bill C. And
> Rockefellers
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-43 Alpha 66
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-44 Hightower on Phillip Knight
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-45 "Mr. Mercedes's" Predictions
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-46 Feminism And Conspiracy
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-47 The Truth Matters
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-48 Rumor Mill News Service #1
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-49 Orlin Grabbe's The Clinton Crash
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-50 Fostergate: Pro And Con
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-51 Skolnick on Rockefellers And
> Rothschilds
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-52 Rumor Mill News Service #2
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-53 Rumor Mill News Service #3
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-54 Mark Koernke on TWA 800
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-55 Rodney Stich on S.A.M.'s
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-56 Witnesses of TWA 800
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-57 Skolnick on TWA 800
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-58 Grabbe on TWA 800
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-59 Freespeech Newspaper?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-60 "Economy Good"?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-61 Grabbe on TWA 800 [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-62 Gene Tatum Interview [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-63 Gene Tatum Interview [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-64 Gene Tatum Interview [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-65 CN Threatened
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-66 Skolnick on White House Enemies
> List
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-67 Grabbe on TWA 800 [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-68 The Death of Amschel Rothschild
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-69 Inventing The AIDS Virus
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-70 Gene Tatum Warns Ross Perot
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-71 Orlin Grabbe on Operation
> BOPTROT
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-72 Skolnick on Clinton's
> Resignation [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-73 Who is Orlin Grabbe?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-74 Gene Tatum Interview [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-75 Gene Tatum Interview [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-76 Skolnick on Clinton's
> Resignation [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-77 Gene Tatum on Reno, Clinton,
> Terror
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-78 Spoofing The Militias
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-79 "Chain Reaction"
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-80 Skolnick on Clinton's
> Resignation [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-81 CN Sells Out
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-82 Meyer's Cell
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-84 The New Federalist
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-85 Rumor Mill News Service #4
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-86 Rumor Mill News Service #4
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-87 Senator For Sale
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-88 Subliminal TV Messages
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-89 Ross Perot Speaks
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-90 Tommy Burkett Cover-Up
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-91 Inslaw Update
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-92 Uncle Sam's Heroin Habit
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-93 Casoloctopus
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-94 OKC: What Really Happened?
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-95 Skolnick on Clinton's
> Resignation [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-96 Skolnick on Clinton's
> Resignation [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-98 The Partin Report
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn8-99 King Klinton
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-01 Traffickers of Death
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-02 The Death of James Moody [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-03 The Death of James Moody [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-04 The Dick Morris Mess
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-05 Mexican Dissidents
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-06 Clinton's Cocaine Habit
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-07 Skolnick on Saddam Hussein
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-08 Focus on Carlos Cardoen
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-09 CN's Prairienet Problems
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-10 Prairienet's Response
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-11 Code Word For Class War
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-12 Gene Tatum on Pegasus
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-13 Turning To Mexico [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-14 Potpourri
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-15 Turning To Mexico [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-16 The Endless Bull Market
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-17 Warren Commission Secrets
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-18 Turning To Mexico [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-19 Turning To Mexico [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-20 Turning To Mexico [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-21 Remote Viewing of TWA 800
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-22 Turning To Mexico [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-23 Turning To Mexico [P-7]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-24 SOURCES eJOURNAL
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-25 Potpourri
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-26 Gene Tatum on Clinton And
> Cocaine
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-27 Strange Lights And TWA 800
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-28 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-1]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-29 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-2]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-30 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-3]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-31 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-4]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-32 Skolnick on October's Eve
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-33 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-5]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-34 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-6]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-35 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-7]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-36 News on Chip Tatum
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-37 Skolnick on The OJ Cover-up
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-38 Investigative Report's Whitewash
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-39 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-8]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-40 Gloria Steinem And The CIA [P-9]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-41 Turning To Mexico [P-8]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-42 Gloria Steinem And The CIA
> [P-10]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-43 Gloria Steinem And The CIA
> [P-11]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-44 Skolnick vs. Hillary
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-45 Interesting Web Sites
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-46 Gloria Steinem And The CIA
> [P-12]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-47 Gloria Steinem And The CIA
> [P-13]
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-48 The Cover-up Quilt
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-49 Skolnick on Crazy Judge Duff
> http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn/cn9-50 Skolnick on Al Gore vs. George
> Bush
> 
> ------------CORRUPTION IN AMERICA------------
> ---------------------------------------------
> -----------------FEATURES:-------------------
> ---------------------------------------------
> ----------CONSPIRACY NATION ARCHIVE----------
> -----------SKOLNICK'S COMMENTARIES-----------
> -------------THE POLITICAL DIGEST------------
> --------------THE CLINTON CRASH--------------
> -----------------ORLIN GRABBE----------------
> 
> 
>         http://www.europa.com/~johnlf

john,

Maybe you should talk to people IN the military who were there instead of 
some dorkus who wasn't . . ("uranium depletion" . . . try 'DU' round for 
'depleted uranium'; an AT round with a long DU core inside a SABOT round 
that, when the outside peels away, leaves a very dense dart that drives 
right through the target ... "lead shield" . . . gimme a break, does the 
word 'depleted' appear anywhere in the dictionary you use? . . .

too bad I don't get to appear on this 'show' of yours . . .


From danielk@erols.com Fri Nov  1 11:02:33 PST 1996
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FACT-FINDING REPORT. ARMED & DANGEROUS: MILITIAS TAKE AIM AT THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, Anti-Defamation League.

Introduction: Bands of armed right-wing militants, most calling
themselves "militias," are cropping up across America. They have
no centralized structure, but there are linkages among some of
them, consisting largely of the sharing of propaganda material
and speakers. A survey conducted by the Anti-Defamation League
has found evidence of their activity in no fewer than 13 states.

The aims of these militias, often bellicosely stated, involve
laying the groundwork for massive resistance to the Federal
government and its law enforcement agencies as well as opposition
to gun control laws. In the view of many such extremists,
numbering in the thousands, America's government is the enemy,
now widening its authoritarian control and planning warfare
against the citizenry.
  
To the militia ideologues, gun control legislation -- the Brady
Law, restrictions on assault weapons, etc -- are major stratagems
in a secret government conspiracy to disarm and control the
American people and abolish their Constitutional "right to bear
arms." They are also obsessed with the role of government in two
recent events -- the Branch Davidian confrontation in Waco and
the Randy Weaver siege in Idaho -- which they interpret as signs
of impending tyranny. The answer, say these extremists, is
ultimately, necessarily, paramilitary resistance. An armed and
aroused citizenry must be mobilized and ready for a call to war.
  
For most, if not all, of the militias, the fear of government
confiscation of their weapons is a paramount concern. Samuel
Sherwood, head of the U.S. Militia Association in Idaho, states:
"When they come around to collect weapons, we'll have the legal
and lawful structure to say 'no' to that." Randy Trochmann of the
Militia of Montana gets tougher: "If and when the Federal
government decides to confiscate weapons, people will band
together to stop them. They are not going to give up their guns."
And the "enemy" easily becomes nightmarish: Robert Plummer, a
leader of the Florida State Militia, says that his group is
"capable of defending ourselves against chemical and biological
agents."
  
Although thwarting gun control is the chief aim of the militias,
they seek to turn the clock back on Federal involvement in a host
of other issues as well, e.g., education, abortion, the
environment.

Case in point: Norman Olson, a regional militia commander in
northern Michigan, has envisioned violence erupting if present
government policies continue. Olson, a Baptist minister who owns
a gun shop, declared: "We're talking about a situation where
armed conflict may be inevitable if the country doesn't turn
around." (Emphasis added.) Most often the central issue of the
militants has been the legality of guns themselves. Clearly,
their deeper suspicions and terrors should be of concern: Is
their militant cause merely the alleged gun-toting "right" of
citizens? -- or is it the "turning around" of the U.S. itself
>from  what the militants see as the "treasonous" direction of the
Federal government's present policies? The question which no one
can answer just yet is what, exactly, the "militias" intend to do
with their guns.

Might they still, as many observers hope, limit themselves to the
time-honored means provided by the Constitution -- freedom of
expression, the ballot, the courts, the right of petition -- or
do they intend to resort to lawlessness?

A recent episode in Virginia offers some partial but troubling
evidence. Members of a militia group calling itself the Blue
Ridge Hunt Club were arrested for possession of illegal weapons.
The leader of the group, James Roy Mullins, and three others who
were taken into custody, were found to be stockpiling weapons in
their homes and storage facilities. Found on a computer disk in
Mullins's home was a draft of the group's newsletter stating that
it planned a series of terrorist actions in furtherance of its
aims. According to an ATF official, the group intended to further
arm itself by raiding the National Guard Armory in Pulaski,
Virginia.

A further and vexing problem uncovered by investigation of the
growing militias is the presence in some of them -- even in
leadership roles -- of persons with histories of racial and
religious bigotry and of political extremism. In the Northwest,
for example, we find militia leaders with backgrounds in the
Aryan Nations movement, and elsewhere other erstwhile neo-Nazis
and Ku Kluxers.

The militias are of concern and doubtless will remain so in the
coming months; the are driven by a combustible issue in American
life which remains unresolved -- that of gun control, an issue of
urgency and passion in a society beset by violent crime. Coming
head to head: a cry for weapons restrictions and a perceived
Constitutional right. Most of those siding with the latter are
law-abiding citizens who feel that guns are desirable for
personal defense or for sport. Many of them feel that the
National Rifle Association (NRA) adequately represents their
concerns; others who see the NRA as too moderate have sought out
more extreme advocates such as the American Pistol and Rifle
Association (APRA). Of late, however, still others are resorting
to the mustering of a far more desperate and dangerous
"resistance" --the militia movement that is the focus of this
report.


LAW REPORT. THE ADL ANTI-PARAMILITARY TRAINING STATUTE: A
RESPONSE TO DOMESTIC TERRORISM., Anti-Defamation League.


Introduction: The phenomenon of domestic terrorism, dramatically
and tragically seared on America's consciousness by the
destruction [in April 1995] of the Federal Building in Oklahoma
City, is sadly not new. The Anti-Defamation League has monitored
the activities of hate groups in America for over 80 years, and
has looked for ways to counteract the threat they pose. One ADL
strategy has been to encourage states to enact anti-paramilitary
training statutes, which prohibit systematic instruction in
exercises comparable to military training, including the use of
advanced weaponry, for the purpose of fostering civil disorder.

Twenty-four states have now enacted such legislation based on or
similar to a model ADL initially proposed more than a decade ago.
In light of the recent tragedy in Oklahoma, which has in
particular highlighted the threat posed by the militia movement,
ADL is publishing this new report on our anti-paramilitary
training legislation. We believe this legislation can play a
significant role in deterring future acts of domestic terrorism,
and encourage all those states which do not presently have such
laws to enact them expeditiously.

The hate groups that the ADL statute targets are characterized by
a propensity for lawlessness and violence. Recent events reveal
that the most extreme of them regard violence as necessary in the
face of what they perceive to be impending Federal tyranny.

Many of these groups admit that they are seeking to establish the
groundwork for militant resistance not only to gun control laws,
but more broadly to the Federal government and its law
enforcement agencies. Some groups have already gone so far as to
conduct paramilitary training with organized instruction in
weapons handling and combat tactics. According to the doctrine of
these extremists, the Federal government is the enemy, an enemy
engaged in expanding its authoritarian control and planning
warfare against its citizenry. The training is interspersed with
anti-government and conspiracy-laden propaganda stressing the
need to be armed and ready for an impending war perpetrated by
the Federal government.

In an October 1980 publication, ADL documented the proliferation
of paramilitary training camps then being operated by the Ku Klux
Klan and other racist groups in clandestine training centers
across the country, including the states of Alabama, California,
Connecticut, Illinois, North Carolina and Texas. The report
disclosed that training being provided at these camps was
sophisticated and rigorous. In Texas, for example, the training
included tactical maneuvers, military drills, map reading and
weapons proficiency. Louis Beam, then a Grand Dragon of the Texas
KKK, boasted that Klan paramilitary training in Texas was more
rigorous than that given to U.S. Army soldiers stationed at Fort
Hood.

Some of these activities were labeled by their sponsors as
"defense" or "survival" training courses. Regardless of the label
applied, it was clear that armed racists, pathological enemies of
blacks, Jews, immigrants, and other minority groups, were engaged
in paramilitary training for guerilla warfare against their
alleged adversaries.

It was the activities described in this report which inspired the
ADL Legal Affairs Department to draft model state legislation
which would make it illegal to operate such camps. In attempting
to provide a legislative solution to this problem, the League
drafted a model bill which imposes criminal penalties for weapons
instructors and participants in paramilitary training camps. (See
Appendix A) In the fall of 1986, ADL issued a report providing a
broad introduction to the model anti-paramilitary training
statute. At the time, the League cited 13 states that had adopted
the model statute or a close facsimile. To date, 24 states have
anti-paramilitary training statutes on the books.

While paramilitary training by extremist groups was less
prevalent in the late 1980s, more recently the proliferation of
armed militias has been alarming. Last fall, ADL published a
report entitled "Armed & Dangerous: Militias Take Aim At The
Federal Government" which documented the growth of such militias
throughout the country. The report identified militia activity in
the following states: Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Indiana,
Michigan, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North
Carolina, Ohio and Virginia.

In the intervening time period, the number of states with militia
activity has reached 27 and continues to grow. These militias are
characterized by vigilant resistance to gun control laws and
government "overreaching." Moreover, individuals with histories
of racial and religious bigotry are involved in some militias,
even in leadership positions. In the Northwest, for example,
militia leader John Trochmann has been a featured speaker at an
annual Aryan Nations gathering.

Investigations into the militias have uncovered stockpiling of
lethal weaponry. In addition, many of the militias include
paramilitary training as a component of their larger mission. In
Michigan, for instance, a brigade of the Northern Michigan
Regional Militia established in April 1994 has been conducting
training exercises twice a month, reportedly with Chinese SKS
semi-automatic assault rifles and other weapons.

In March 1995, a member of the "freemen" movement was sentenced
by a Roundup, Montana, judge to a ten-year prison term for
felonious acts of terrorism in connection with his movement-
related activities. Followers of this anti-tax movement argue
that they are being deprived of their rights by the Federal
government and prefer to live by their own common law court
system. John Trochmann, the aforementioned leader of the Militia
of Montana, allegedly traveled with five of his followers to
Roundup, armed with an arsenal of weapons. "I believe the men
were here to attempt to capture or kill us," Musselshell County
Attorney John Bohlman told a local reporter. John Trochmann and
his five cohorts were arrested, and a search of their vehicles
revealed a collection of handguns, rifles, communications
equipment, and thousands of rounds of ammunition.

Anti-paramilitary training statutes provide law enforcement with
another tool that could potentially be used effectively against
such groups. They have worked well in the past: a case in point
was the reaction of the Christian Patriots Defense League (CPDL),
an extremist survivalist group which, beginning in 1979, held
propaganda-filled "freedom festivals" where over 1,000 people
engaged in military-style field maneuvers and attended some 55
classes, receiving instruction in, among other subjects, "Guns
and Reloading," "Demolition and Camouflage," "Anti-Aircraft and
Anti-Tank," and "Knife Fighting." In response to Illinois's
passage of an anti-paramilitary training statute, the CPDL moved
the festival to Kicking, Missouri. Missouri then passed its anti-
paramilitary training law, prompting CPDL director John Harrell
to warn invitees about the new law and instructing them not to
bring their firearms to the camp. Many extremists apparently
stayed away from the meeting for this reason.

In Florida, shortly after the enactment of the statute, five
members of the United Klans of America were arrested by the St.
Petersburg Police Department and the Pinellas County Sheriff's
office and charged with planning and training for terrorist acts
against minorities. One year later, two pleaded guilty and two
were convicted by a jury for violating Florida's anti-
paramilitary training statute. The goal of the group, according
to a police informant, was to incite blacks to riot so that
whites would turn to the Klan for leadership. In addition to
training with guns intended to be used against minorities,
members of the group were instructed in the making of incendiary
devices. The statute helped prevent a dangerous situation from
escalating into the kind of violence which could easily have led
to the loss of innocent life.

In North Carolina, violating of a Federal court order not to
operate an illegal paramilitary organization led to the
conviction of the leader of the White Patriot Party (WPP), an
armed racist gang. The court order settling a class action civil
suit prohibited WPP leader Glenn Miller and his organization from
harassing blacks and from violating the state's anti-paramilitary
training statute, also based on the ADL model legislation.

During a jury trial held in Federal district court in Raleigh,
witnesses reported that Miller's group stockpiled weapons and
conducted maneuvers for an eventual attempt to overthrow the U.S.
government and to create a racist state. Miller was sentenced to
six months in prison and three years probation.

In light of recent events involving the "militia movement," the
usefulness of anti-paramilitary training statutes for law
enforcement agencies could not be more apparent.

Contents: Introduction, Legal Analysis, ADL Model Statute
(Appendix A), Civil Disobedience Act 18 U.S.C. 231 et. Seq.
(Appendix B), Individual State Anti-Paramilitary Training
Statutes (Appendix C).


SPECIAL REPORT. PARANOIA AS PATRIOTISM: FAR-RIGHT INFLUENCES ON
THE MILITIA MOVEMENT. Anti-Defamation League.

Introduction: On April 19, 1995, a large truck bomb destroyed the
Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 167
people, including 19 children in the building's day care center.
The deadly blast -- the worst act of domestic terrorism in U.S.
history --came on the two-year anniversary of the fiery
culmination of the Federal government's confrontation with the
Branch Davidian sect at its compound in Waco, TX. At first, law
enforcement and the country at large believed the Oklahoma City
explosion to be the work of international terrorists. However,
within days of this tragedy, the evidence pointed to a domestic
origin, and prosecutors alleged that the first man indicted was
motivated by an intense hatred of the Federal government. It was
further reported that the two bombing suspects charged thus far
had some contact with one of the many right-wing paramilitary
"militias" that have emerged in this country over the past year.

In October 1994, the Anti-Defamation League issued a 28-page
fact-finding report entitled, Armed & Dangerous: Militias Take
Aim at the Federal Government, highlighting the proliferation of
militias in America. The ADL findings were based on a survey
which found evidence of militia activity in 13 states. ADL
surveys two weeks after the Oklahoma City bombing indicated
evidence of militia activity in at least 32 states, with signs
that the total number might continue to rise.

The aims of these militias involve laying the groundwork for
large-scale resistance to the Federal government and its law
enforcement agencies, as well as opposing gun control laws. In
the view of many such extremists, America's government is the
enemy, widening its authoritarian control, planning warfare
against the citizenry and utilizing the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms and the Federal Bureau of Investigation as
its main instruments.

An additional problem uncovered by investigation of the growing
militias is the presence in some of them -- even in leadership
roles -- of persons with histories of racial and religious
bigotry and experience in political extremism.

In order to provide greater public understanding of the militias'
ideology and historical context, ADL has prepared this report. It
includes a summary account of two events that have fueled the
growth of militias, followed by concise discussions of selected
far-right activists and organizations -- a number of which have
had a significant influence upon or relationship to, the militia
groups.

Contents: Introduction, Rallying Cries of the Ultra-Right: Weaver
and Waco, Forerunners and influences: The Arizona Patriots, Aryan
Nations, Committee of the States, The Covenant the Sword and the
Arm of the Lord, Robert DePugh and The Minutemen, Elohim City,
Colonel James "Bo" Gritz, Gordon Wendell Kahl, Mark Koernke,
Liberty Lobby and The Spotlight, Col. Gordon "Jack" Mohr and the
Christian Patriots Defense League, The Order, William L. Pierce
and The Turner Diaries, The Posse Comitatus, Linda Thompson,
Other Far-Right Activists: Louis R. Beam, "Pastor" Pete Peters,
Thom Robb and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.

RESEARCH REPORT. WILLIAM L. PIERCE: NOVELIST OF HATE. ,
Anti-Defamation League. 11 pages.

Introduction: Since the April 19, 1995, bombing in Oklahoma City
by right-wing extremists, attention has been focused on the
groups, individuals and materials that may have influenced the
terrorists who committed that heinous act. One path leads to
William L. Pierce, leader of the "Cosmotheist Community Church"
and long an advocate of a neo-Nazi takeover of America.

Pierce is the author (using the pseudonym Andrew Macdonald) of a
1978 book entitled "The Turner Diaries," a novel popular among
far-right activists, which calls for the violent overthrow of the
Federal government, and the systematic killing of Jews and non-
whites, in order to establish an "Aryan" world. Although there is
no firm evidence that the Oklahoma City bombers read this book,
the parallels are hard to miss.

The book contains this scenario, chillingly similar to that of
Oklahoma City:

"At 9:15 yesterday morning our bomb went off in the FBI's
national headquarters building...the damage is immense. We have
certainly disrupted a major portion of the FBI's headquarters
operations for at least the next several weeks...we gaped with a
mixture of horror and elation at the devastation...

"It is a heavy burden of responsibility for us to bear, since
most of the victims of our bomb were only pawns who were no more
committed to the sick philosophy or the racially destructive
goals of the System than we are.

"But there is no way we can destroy the System without hurting
many thousands of innocent people...And if we don't destroy the
System before it destroys us...our whole race will die." [from
"The Turner Diaries"]

Contents: Introduction, Inspiring "The Order," Long Career in
Bigotry, "Literary" Services, New Location, Anti-Semitism:
Pierce's Raison d'Etre, Conclusion.


From Sweenfam@teleport.com Fri Nov  1 14:51:35 PST 1996
Article: 105738 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Harry Sweeney 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.org.cia
Subject: Re: Linda Thompson vs Gary Hunt
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:15:16 -0800
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:105738 alt.politics.org.cia:14447

Children!  Stop it, now...

Linda Thompson has certainly earned her share of praise... followed 
almost immediately by a good helping of condemnation.  The ensuing 
result for many of us is skepticism -- and for some, outright 
distrust.

However, this Hunt thread is not convincing either way.  Linda fails 
to do more than make a basic assertation without many specifics.  If 
you want more specifics, ask for them, and you might be rewarded 
(depending on whether you would be pleased if she had some, or had 
none), you might not.  

But IAN's response is not much better.  I see nothing demonstrative, 
conclusive, or evidenciary in his presentation, either.  But in 
fairness to IAN, and I presume he knows this, you can't prove a 
negative hypothesis.  That is, you can't prove Hunt is NOT an agent.  
The best you can do is challenge Lida to do the opposit, and prove 
that she has or has not the resources to back her claim up.

I, for one, would like to know which way it goes -- but we have to do 
it the right way, or we just waste our electronic time.  So, Linda, I 
guess this is your chance...  HMS


From danielk@erols.com Fri Nov  1 18:24:30 PST 1996
Article: 43056 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (e6eb755cbaeb8504eadfb3cd9a32c7a0)
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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AHABIZ wrote:
> 
> In article <846557309$27123@atype.com>, Daniel Kuehne 
> writes:
> 
> > this piece is TRULY frightening!!!
> 
> GONG! danny this piece was discreditted when it first came out.  It's
> neonazi agitprop, and poorly done at that.  ALL of the CM units were
> notified via our mailing lists, and other means.  Now, danny, since the
> newspaper that published this thing originally wont admit where they got
> their copy, how about you telling us where you got yours?
> 
> Oh, and we know it most likely originated with an identity group in
> Pennsylvania - we're even pretty certain we know which one it was...you
> don't happen to belong to something that calls itself the 'christian posse
> comitatus of Pennsylvania' do you?  Enquiring minds want to know!
> 
> Arlin H. Adams

GONG!!!  First of all, I didn't post the piece here, so I don't know why you are 
wondering if I wrote it or not, but I must say that you are indeed *VERY* perceptive.
  
Hate to ruin a good conspiracy theory, Arlin, but I thinks its high-time that I killed 
this one, once and for all: I have a little confession to make... I wrote the "Olympic 
Bombing" piece and posted it on AEN (Linda Thompson's BBS; now a listserver).  How it 
got in the Montgomery County Observer (MCO) is anyone's guess, but I figure that there 
are two likely possibilities: 1) somebody at MCO reads AEN, or 2) Linda sent it out over 
the net, where someone saw it and sent it to MCO.  

After I posted it on AEN, Linda sent me a fido-net message saying: "Where did this come 
from? How can I verify it?"  To this, I replied that it was just another of my 
provacative spoofs, but by that point, I suppose, she had already sent it out all over 
net, and thus, alarmed everyone.  From what you say here ["this piece was discreditted 
when it first came out"], it sounds like she got the word out quickly thereafter that it 
was merely a spoof.  I'm glad to hear that, since, otherwise, it may have wound up on 
Mark's "Militia Follies" page [gasp!!!].

I'm saddened to see that you consider my spoof to be poorly disguised "neonazi 
agitprop."  I wrote it because I got a strange feeling that something like this would 
indeed happen.  What better way to discredit the militia before the eyes of the whole 
world?  You see, I wrote it as a warning to the militia, to prepare them for this 
possibility, not to needlessly spread a false rumor about.  Hopefully, the militia was 
somewhat better prepared due to my piece of "neonazi agitprop" [after the bombing, I 
heard J.J. Johnson on CNN saying that the militia knew that something like that was 
going to happen].

To be honest with you, when I saw my old AEN post show up here, I was shocked.  I 
wondered (and still do) how the heck it got in the MCO.  Here's the original piece 
exactly as I sent it to AEN (notice that the MCO, or someone else, made a few minor 
changes in the beginning of the text and deleted the absurd references at the end):

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Fellow extremists, I was just forwarded the following piece from a
reliable source.  I think you will find it as startling as I did. 
No comment is necessary, other than "this means war."   
-------------------------------------------------------------------


     A PLAN OF ACTION AGAINST ANTI-GOVERNMENT MILITIA GROUPS

-A Special Report Issued By The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC)-
                          30 April 1996


     In our opinion, the various anti-government "militia" groups
which have appeared across the country in the wake of the incident
in Waco, texas, three years ago, pose an immanent danger to the
security of the United States.  Thus, we issue this plan of action,
outlining a procedure which has the ability to neutralize the
militia threat in the most expeditious manner.  Its fruition will
require the joint cooperation of several entities: SPLC, FBI, BATF,
and the news media.  If we are to succeed, each organization must
perform their respective duties in a timely and synchronized
manner.  The plan itself will consist of the four phases outlined
below.  
                  
 
                PHASE I: Conditioning the Public

  
     For our plan to succeed, the public must be on our side.  The
importance of this point can not be overstated.  This phase will be
completed by SPLC, FBI, and the news media.  The goal of this phase
will be to join the keywords "militia," "bombing," and "olympics"
together, in the minds of the public.  
     The media will accomplish this by overemphasizing "bombing"
stories, and somehow relating these to "militia" and/or "olympics"
stories, even if such connections are highly dubious.  The role of
SPLC will be to uncover, or synthesize, such links and "feed" them
to the media. 
     When no obvious connections exist, and believable links are
impossible to synthesize, the media will proceed to follow a
"bombing" story with a "militia" story and an "olympics" story,
although not necessarily in that order.  This will accomplish the
same effect in the minds of the viewers.   
     Throughout this phase, the role of the FBI will be to provide
the news media with various "authorities" and "experts," to lend
the coverage an appearance of unquestionable credibility.  The
testimony they provide will either be improvised or derived from
various infiltrators residing within "militia" groups.     

 
                     PHASE II: The Incident


     After the terms "bombing," "militia," and "olympics" have been
adequately associated in the minds of the viewing public, we will
be ready for a somewhat bolder action.  The duties required in this
phase will be assigned to the BATF, an organization highly trained
in the use of explosives.  Their job will be to create a high
profile "incident" at the Summer olympic games.  
     In this report, we obviously can not provide the various
classified details of this "incident," but suffice it to say that
"something big will happen," and this "something" will be readily
attributable to the "militia."       


                 PHASE III: Expert Testimony   


     In this phase, the news media and FBI have primary
responsibility.  The duty of the news media will be to attribute
the "incident" at the olympics to the "militia."  Thus, the
keywords "militia," "bombing," and "olympics" will once again be
intimately associated in the minds of the public.  
     As in Phase I, the role of the FBI will be to provide various
"authorities," "experts," and "witnesses" to the news media, to
lend the coverage an appearance of unquestionable credibility.  If
the scenario offered by the FBI conflicts with that given by the
"militia," the public will obviously side with the FBI.  After all,
in the minds of the public, it is the word of a prestigious
government agency against a wild-eyed group of mad bombers. 
However, this is merely our second line of defense.  Obviously, our
first line is not allowing any "alternate" viewpoints in the media
coverage to begin with!        


                       PHASE IV: The Kill 


     At this final phase, the "militia" will be completely at our
mercy.  Thus, it will be time for the "kill."  At long last, we
will have the opportunity to rid ourselves of these pseudo-
patriotic puke once and for all.  Indeed, at the completion of this
phase, we will have reduced the "militia" to mere "Koernke cake,"
"Bo burgers," "McLamb chops, and "Thompson turnovers."  



                           REFERENCES 


Dees, Morris.  1982.  Propagating the synagogue of satan in
American.  The Journal of the Southern Poverty Law Center:
13(16):23-27. 

-----.  1985.  Ten sure ways to exterminate the Christian church. 
The American Atheist: 17(12):53-58.  

-----.  1987.  Restoring the glory of Babylon.  The Modern
Humanist: 28(6):13-28.  

-----.  1988.  Destroying the Christian-Israel movement.  The
Journal of the Southern Poverty Law Center: 23(16):43-47.  

-----.  1992.  In defense of the 6,000,000 figure for the Jewish
holocaust.  The Journal of the Jewish Holocaust: 35(29):12-34.  

-----.  1993.  The Christ is now here: I am the promised Messiah,
follow me.  The Journal of the Southern Poverty Law Center:
14(19):32-38.  

--------------7B586124CD--



From charri3122@aol.com Sat Nov  2 13:36:50 PST 1996
Article: 43211 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 96 20:33:22 GMT
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Subject: Re: Olympic bombing see what you think?
Lines: 6


It shure is funny it came out three mounths befour the bombing. I smell a
SPLC coverup. I know for a fact that story NOT come from where adams says
it did. AlSO linda Thompson had nothing to do with it. I think the splc is
pulling all stops to cover this up.
rambo


From anndaltyn@aol.com Tue Nov  5 18:00:51 PST 1996
Article: 43959 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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From: anndaltyn@aol.com (AnnDaltyn)
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Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 23:19:59 GMT
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Subject: Re: Olympic bombing see what you think?
Lines: 32


In article <846966802$5314@atype.com>, charri3122@aol.com (CHarri3122)
writes:

>Subject:	Re: Olympic bombing see what you think?
>From:	charri3122@aol.com (CHarri3122)
>Date:	Sat, 2 Nov 96 20:33:22 GMT
>
>It shure is funny it came out three mounths befour the bombing. I smell a
>SPLC coverup. I know for a fact that story NOT come from where adams says
>it did. AlSO linda Thompson had nothing to do with it. I think the splc
is
>pulling all stops to cover this up.
>rambo

I had heard rumors about it but blew it of as a conspiracy theory.  

You are right Adams is definitely covering something up as are the feds. 
But I am sure all us good people at MAM can did up some more info on that
plan & where it originated.

I have been told that the Olympic bombing was part of a plan for Clinton
and his masters to show cause for some very restrictive legislation and
more violations of the constitution.  I have been told by sources close to
and in the WhiteHouse that Clinton is a vocal proponent of NWO but more so
because he some how views his version of it as a pure form of
Communism.(what ever he sees that as being)  Not the old “Soviet
Communism” that was just plain and simple economic Socialism.  Remember
Clinton was a card carrying Communist party member.  He did work against
the US in Russia and Europe instead of doing his duty as a citizen.  His
wife was a lefty lesbian with her black college dorm mate & has made some
rather disturbing connections since then. 


From danielk@erols.com Fri Nov  8 12:00:40 PST 1996
Article: 44277 of misc.activism.militia
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Subject: Re: Olympic bombing see what you think?
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CHarri3122 wrote:
> 
> It shure is funny it came out three mounths befour the bombing. I smell a
> SPLC coverup. I know for a fact that story NOT come from where adams says
> it did. AlSO linda Thompson had nothing to do with it. I think the splc is
> pulling all stops to cover this up.
> rambo

You amaze me... even when I took credit for the "Olympic Bombing" spoof (originally on
AEN Chat, 4/30/96: I have the archives to PROVE it), you still don't believe me.  The
idea for this spoof originated six months earlier in another form: a parody of a future
Associated Press story.  Here it is:

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Terrorist Bombing at Olympic Village; Martial Law Declared
Associated Press
August 23, 1996
                                

Atlanta, GA - A tremendous explosion rocked the Olympic Village at
11:30 PM last night leaving at least 38 known dead and 127 injured. 
Officials say the explosion took place inside the dormitory where
the United Nations security forces (UNSEFOR) are quartered.  In a
visit to the United Nations (UN) last March, Clinton accepted
UNSEFOR's offer to provide security at the 1996 Olympic games.
[note: I wrote this because at the time I had heard that UN
peacekeepers were going to be providing security at the Olympics -
DK]. 
     This morning, in an emotional two hour speech presented at
Georgetown University (considered by many analysts to be his finest
ever), the president blamed the bombing on the far-right, which has
long advocated abolishing the UN, based on a paranoid misconception
that it has slowly usurped American's sovereignty and evolved into
a "one-world government/New World Order."  
     Clinton revealed that the FBI is currently conducting raids on
the headquarters of several prominent extremist organizations in a
search for evidence.  
     Unfortunately, several members of one apocalyptic extremist
group died when they barricaded themselves into their fortified
bunker and blew themselves up accidently when they unwittingly
tripped a booby-trap intended for federal agents.  Although the
group had not been specifically targeted for a raid in connection
to the latest terrorist attack, its members, long fueled by
paranoid right-wing hate literature, panicked when they found out
about the raids on other extremist organizations via the Internet. 
     Clinton further indicated that he has placed the entire region
(Federal Emergency Management Agency Region 4) under martial law
and strongly suggested that he may have to temporarily postpone the
1996 elections (for national security reasons) and run the country
by executive order for the rest of the year or until law and order
can be restored.
     Senate majority leader Bob Dole (R-KS) expressed
disappointment over Clinton's decision, but stated that "Americans
must put aside their political differences and stand behind the
President until this crisis can be resolved."  Speaker of the house
Newt Gingrich (R-GA) expressed a similar sentiment.    
     President Clinton went on to state that America "has been held
siege for the past two years by a broad, far-right, anti-government
conspiracy which includes the militia movement, anti-abortion
demonstrators, Constitutional activists, radical nationalists,
religious zealots, and a thousand other points of darkness."      
     In an obvious reference to the Oklahoma City bombing last
April and the Amtrak derailment last October, the President
reminded his audience that "the terrorist bombing last night was
only the most recent in a series of acts perpetrated by the far-
right radical fringe elements in our society."  
     He further stated that "we must pacify and purify our
pluralistic Democracy by purging it of all horrific haters of
humanity and paranoid purveyors of so-called patriotism. We must be
bold, brash, and brave, while our victory is clear, so that our
judgement can be swift, certain, and severe."  This remark resulted
in a standing ovation which lasted for several minutes.       
     The President urged all Americans to cooperate fully with the
FBI by providing information to them about anyone who has recently
used anti-government hate speech.  This would include self-
proclaimed patriot leaders such as Linda Thompson (producer of
several popular anti-government hate videotapes) and Mark Koernke
(a janitor who fancies himself as a "custodian of the
Constitution").  Our government sources reveal that these two
right-wing extremists have been closely monitored since they have
been so effective at marketing their message of doom and gloom.   
     Other extremists are seen as somewhat less of a threat since
they have been less effective at convincing others to share their
apocalyptic vision.  As one official put it: "Thompson and Koernke
have been extremely successful at getting new members into the pews
of the church of latter day hate, via shortwave radio broadcasts,
alarmist videotapes, and the Internet, whereas, other extremist
groups, such as the John Birch Society, having failed to update
their outreach methods, are merely preaching to the choir." 
     The National Rifle Association (NRA) is assisting federal
authorities in the bombing investigation by providing its
membership list.  In a press conference, a spokesman for the gun-
lobby stated that "...the NRA has insisted, does insist, and will
continue to insist on the traditional right of American citizens to
own and use firearms for lawful purposes.  However, the NRA has
always distanced itself from extremist groups, such as citizen
militias, since participation in such an organization does not make
the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms any more valid or
strong."
     As a strong measure to curb the alarming proliferation of
anti-government hate speech in recent years, President Clinton
announced that he would sign an executive order which would allow
federal investigators to use Cray supercomputers to sift through
all electronic mail postings on the Internet for the past five
years.  As a further measure, he said he will instruct FBI director
Louis Freeh to set up a network of "neighborhood hate watch
centers" across America.  He revealed that this network would be
set up something like a grass-roots version of the very successful
Klan Watch program formerly run by the late Morris Dees of the
Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC).  Dees was tragically killed on
April 19th of this year in a suspicious automobile accident.
     In an embarrassing moment near the end of his speech, the
President got tongue-twisted, but oddly, he still received a long
and loud standing ovation.  Obviously meaning to say democracy, he
stated that "America is the greatest demagoguery on Earth, and
hence, we must effect social and political change by embracing the
system, instead of resorting to divisive hate-speech which only
serves to fracture meaningful public debate and breed even more
virulent hate."
     Today's declaration of martial law is the second such action
the President has taken in just the past two months.  On June 28th,
the President signed an executive order placing Federal Emergency
Management Agency (FEMA) Region 9 under martial law in order to
restore law and order in the wake of a massive armed uprising
following the Supreme Court's judgement in Nye County vs. the
United States.  In a controversial 5-4 court ruling, the high court
sided with a lower court ruling last year which stated that the
Constitution authorizes the federal government to own vast expanses
of land, even if doing so is against the wishes of the American
people.
     The armed insurrection in Region 9 was put down by 50,000
well-equipped UN troops who were flown in from Fort Polk,
Louisiana, and Fort Dix, New Jersey.  This rapid-reaction strike
force consisted mainly of Russian and Chinese soldiers. 
Fortunately, the rebellion was put down before much damage was done
to the fragile ecosystems within the newly dedicated Sagebrush
International Biosphere Preserve.       
     Despite last night's cowardly terrorist attack, President
Clinton was still planning to travel to New York to attend the
funeral of the late Henry A. Kissinger.  Kissinger was killed
suddenly during a speech before the Council on Foreign Relations
(CFR) on August 7th, when the ceiling unexpectedly collapsed,
crushing him along with five other members of that highly acclaimed
organization.  Federal investigators discovered that a ruptured
water main had eroded the foundation of the CFR building, causing
the tragic collapse.  Sabotage was suspected after investigators
found a small piece of paper nearby which contained some anti-
government scribblings and was signed "Sons of Sovereignty." 
Although no one has ever heard of this group, a spokesman for the
Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) commented that "we are certain
that this evil and cowardly act was perpetrated by the far-right,
who have traditionally been opponents of the CFR."
  
--This report has been brought to you by the [dis]Associated and
[de]Press[ed] newswire service, world renowned for accurate and
unbiased reporting.  Stay tuned for further developments on the
continuing threat from anti-government, right-wing terrorism. 

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From DotHB@aol.com Fri Nov  8 12:00:54 PST 1996
Article: 44401 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 96 12:34:02 GMT
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Subject: SAFAN NO. 125.  GWS (Gulf War Syndrome) Alert
Lines: 241


         STOP ALL FEDERAL ABUSES NOW!
    S.A.F.A.N. Internet Newsletter, No. 125, November 7, 1996

GWS (Gulf War Syndrome) ALERT......
by Peter Kawaja (pkawaja@dnet.net

Disturbing news - anyone out there, PLEASE confirm 

Have heard from some friends that MANY high-ranking Military who have 
refused to go along with the NWO takeover of the US were recently arrested 
and carted off.  These are the ones who were given the choice and a deadline 
date to respond.

Also, Apparently even Rush Limbaugh stated on his last show this may be 
the last election we have in the United States (not verbatim).  There are 
rumors we may not even have an election, and even if Dole  (yuk) were to 
win, Clinton would NOT be removed from the White House.

This seem like the beginning of the END.  UN / NWO occupation - the  National

ID or GWS.

Anyone with credible info please respond.

Peter Kawaja  (pkawaja@dnet.net)
[704] 349-4285
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MORE......
From: 	Linda Thompson [SMTP:lindat@iquest.net]

What's up with this? More News from our Congress What's Going On Here???
Some interesting information came to my attention. Evidently the 104th 
Congress adjourned "sine die" this month.  Now, if anyone out there is like 
me, they're wondering just  what "sine die" means and why it is significant. 
The  significance arises when we take a look at history and discover that the

last (and most recent) time that this was  done was just before the Civil War

after which Lincoln  declared war without a sitting Congress. To further
arouse 
my  curiosity, Black's Law Dictionary, 4th Ed. defines "sine die" as without
day, 
without assigning a day for a further meeting  or hearing. 

Hence, a final adjournment: final dismissal of a cause..."   The mystery
deepens 
even more when you consider the  following excerpts from the Congressional 
Record.

(1) CONDITIONAL ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE   (Senate - October 03, 1996)

Mr. LOTT. Mr. President, if there is no further business to come before the 
Senate, I now move that the Senate stand in adjournment sine die under the 
provisions of  House Concurrent Resolution 230, or until 6 p.m., Friday,
 October 
4, if the House fails to adopt House Concurrent  Resolution 230. And God be 
with you all.

The motion was agreed to, and at 6:54pm, the Senate  adjourned sine die, 
conditioned on the House concurrence, in the Senate amendment to House 
Concurrent Resolution 230.   (2) From the Congressional Record of October 4, 
1996.  H12300: "SINE DIE ADJOURNMENT"

Mr. MYERS of Indiana. Mr. Speaker, the work of the 2nd session of the 104th 
Congress has been completed.  Pursuant to House Concurrent Resolution 230, 
as amended, I move that the House do now adjourn. The SPEAKER pro tempore 
(Mr. WALKER). In accordance with the provisions of House Concurrent
Resolution 
230, as amended, the Chair declares the 2d session of the 104th Congress 
adjourned sine die.  Thereupon (at 2 o'clock and 52 minutes p.m.) pursuant
 to 
House Concurrent Resolution 230, as amended, the House  adjourned. Many will 
now ask, (as did I) "What is House Concurrent Resolution 230? The text is as 
follows.

H.Con. Res. 230 Agreed to October 4, 1996   One Hundred Fourth Congress of 
the United States of America AT THE SECOND SESSION Begun and held at the City

of  Washington on Wednesday the third day of January, one  thousand nine 
hundred and ninety-six. Concurrent Resolution  Providing for the sine die 
adjournment or the second session  of the One Hundred Fourth Congress.

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), that when 
the House adjourns on the legislative day of  Wednesday, October 2, 1996, 
Thursday, October 8, 1998, or  Friday, October 4, 1996, on a motion offered 
pursuant to  this concurrent resolution by the Majority Leader, or his
designee, 
it stand adjourned sine die, or until noon on  the second day after Members
are 
notified to reassemble pursuant to section 2 of this concurrent resolution,
and 
that when the Senate adjourns on Wednesday, October 2, 1996, Thursday, 
October 3, 1996, or Friday, October 4, 1996, on a  motion offered pursuant to
this concurrent resolution by the Majority Leader, or his designee, it stand
adjourned 
sine die, or until noon on the second day after members are notified to 
reassemble pursuant to section 2 of this concurrent resolution.

Sec. 2. The Speaker of the House and the Majority Leader of the Senate,
acting 
jointly after consultation with the Minority Leader of the House and the
Minority 
Leader of the Senate, shall notify the Members of the House and Senate, 
respectively, to reassemble whenever, in their opinion, the public interest
shall 
warrant it.

It appears that H. Con Res. 230 gives Congress the option of reconvening the 
104th Congress (not the 105th that will be elected next month) whenever they 
feel  it is necessary. Without this resolution, the sine die adjournment
would 
have been a permanent adjournment of the 104th Congress. Since I have been 
able to find no reference, in history, to this having been done before, I can
only 
wonder why it was done this time. I don't have the answers so maybe we should

be asking the Members of Congress.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CONTINUE 

D - DAY 1996?
by Peter Kawaja

This '96 election era,  we are hearing rumors about some of our high-ranking 
US Military now being unlawfully arrested (by WHO?) for not going along with 
the NWO takeover of America. Is this it ?   I do not know if it is, BUT,
years ago 
the year 1997 was in my documents. 

If the UN is going to take over America openly, Clinton will need an "excuse"
- 
what will it be ?  Economic - financial collapse ?  / Domestic Terrorist
threat ? 
/ Foreign Terrorist threat ? [ a combination of these or ]  How  about :   A
 
plague has been unleashed upon us by Saddam Hussein, and  everyone MUST 
be inoculated - and receive their National ID Card .

Are all the recent revelations about the Gulf War Syndrome just TIMELY 
coincidence ? Are these "leaks"  or admissions  planned - orchestrated and 
now the timing is right ?  Slowly, the admissions, YES it was Saddam, not the

NWO who caused GWI and shucks, golly gee says the DOD/CIA, we haven't 
been able to figure all this out for almost 6-years, but now we know, it was 
Iraq (of course). 

That being the case, our  veterans have returned as carriers of a plague and 
the entire US population is at risk and must receive a vaccine, and in order
to 
identify who has received it or not, everyone MUST carry their National ID
Card, 
or be segregated from the healthy (card carrying) public in concentration
work 
camps, just like those who ARE going to be identified as having GWI, will be 
placed in special camps for the protection of YOU the healthy card carrying 
public. [ Does this mean that all Veterans and active duty American forces 
(who won't fire on Americans) will be considered a threat to National
Security 
because they were exposed/infected and we then will need the UN troops to 
replace them ? ] 

We are also hearing stories about (possible) foreigners coming into the US 
carrying vials of biologicals.  That may be real or a real possibility - but
ask 
yourself WHO is our real enemy ?   Is our enemy (that we should fear) really 
Saddam Hussein  in his tiny country of Iraq?     Or is our enemy already here

and under communist  UN / NWO control ?    Are these releases (publicized)/
orchestrated so that the public will be in FEAR of foreign biological attack
and 
therefore will WELCOME the UN occupation of the US ?  

And everyone will have to give up all rights, search and seizures take place
by 
military / MJTF forces against the American civilian population for OUR
protection?  
Now you will be hearing that it is "possible" that Iraq had the potential to
 deliver biological weapons in Scuds - a new expose will declare, ONLY,  no
one can figure 
out how it is that Iraq had the technology and NOT the US instead, and who
sold 
the technology to Iraq ?   

There is lots more - but all of these lead down one road - FEAR and a
scapegoat, 
to make it a reality that someone else caused the GWS PLAGUE that is upon us.

WHAT IS THE REAL ANSWER ?       

One day you may read "Prussian Blue and the New World Order", or maybe you 
will be unlucky enough to live (and die) some of it ! [excerpt from "The
Saddest 
Chapter of America's History" - by Peter  Kawaja , follows ] :

GWI  is a Communicable Disease, spreading worse than AIDS, by casual (non-
sexual) contact, through perspiration, or by being close to someone who 
coughs.   Your children can be infected at a playground or at school.
Mycoplasma incognitus contains 40% of the HIV (AIDS) envelope, which was
tampered with by humans.   It is a warfare agent BY DESIGN.    

Our Government is involved in this great crime and cover-up. A nationwide/
worldwide panic is going to be created, of such magnitude, that it will
threaten 
our very existence. This same government will then step in to offer a
solution, 
they will have "an antidote", a treatment, BUT, only those who will accept
the 
Medical ID (national id) will be treated, all others will be considered a
danger and 
threat to society, hunted down, and imprisoned or killed.  

Americans will welcome this solution, will turn-in their neighbors and
friends 
in order to survive themselves.  At the same time,   this instrument WILL 
permanently-publicly  SUSPEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE United STATES, 
to allow United Nations Rule, the New World Order /  One World Government.  

AMERICA WILL BE ENSLAVED 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

[PS - Clinton is at Ft. Bliss / El Paso, Texas - today, WHY? ]
Almost ALL -  US  Combat Arms (units) are presently deployed out of the 
United States ! We are VULNERABLE and ripe for the pickins. 
(Note: this message was written by PK on 11/5/96)
:::::::::::::::::::
Correction:
The last sentence in SAFAN 123 was cut off in the transmission. It should
read: 
All these of late "leaks & admissions" and revelations that Iraq had these 
advanced biological/chemical capability and bio-Scud  warheads is part of the

plan.  Stay tuned.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
        SAFAN %Dot Bibee  (DotHB@aol.com)  Ph/FAX (423) 577-7011
                                       Reply to:  SafanNews@aol.com
                SAFAN Internet Newsletters are posted on the Internet
                                           http://feustel.mixi.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



From octavia@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 10 07:25:07 PST 1996
Article: 44664 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 20:18:03 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (Win16; I)
Message-ID: <847570683$28873@atype.com>
Subject: Re: UN vehicles pictures
Lines: 26


Billy Beck wrote:
> 
> Kaa Byington  wrote:
> 
> >Second Hint:  UN vehicles do not have "UN" painted on them.  They have
> >the UN logo, instead.
> 
>         Rubbish.  Look at the white vehicles in Bosnia.

No, you look at them.  What does U.N. stand for in Serbo Croatian, or 
whtever they speak there?  To French speakers the initials would be NU, 
to German speakers, VN, to Turks, BR.  To Chinese or Japanese, they'd be 
some characters, and to Arabs, the initials would be in a different 
alphabet.  If you want everybody to understand who you are, no matter 
what they speak, you use a logo or a flag, not an acronym.

I've seen UN vehicles in many countries--including here--not necessarily 
military vehicles.  UNICEF, World Health Organization, etc are all Unted 
Nations entities.   They never say UN or have any big initials on them. 
Merely the logo.  

Learn to recognize crude forgeries.  That one looks like a Linda Thompson 
special.




From a0003517@airmail.net Sun Nov 10 07:25:11 PST 1996
Article: 44681 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (49f5f8cd6a60eda37b714aee3538d41b)
From: a0003517@airmail.net ("Homesteadr" James Vallaster)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 0:03:30 GMT
Message-ID: <847584210$29628@atype.com>
Subject: Stung
Lines: 394



Linda makes some interesting points and raises some important questions 
about the adequacy of the defense in this case, whether due to intent or 
merely incompetence. It serves to emphasize the need for more good 
patriot attorneys to cover every part of the country.

We also need more information about some of the other cases than we have 
been getting: W. Virginia, Washington, NH/CT, etc.

--- Forwarded mail from lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 96 08:22 EST
To: Non-aen
From: lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)
Subject: STUNG

Re: So-called "Militia bombing" convictions

Despite the propaganda about the jury and the trial that was coming out 
of Macon throughout the trial of Bob Starr in Georgia, the source of 
most of the "we'll win" and now the "it's a miscarriage of justice" 
posts was Nancy Lord.

It is significant to know the lengths that were gone to in this case to 
secure the conviction, aside from the obvious that evidence was planted 
by ATF and the informants and that the infomants were paid $50,000.00.

As an attorney, I believe the Defense attorneys, Nancy Lord, and Buafo 
were instrumental in the convictions.

For starters, any federal trial is "rigged" to an extent, because most 
federal judges seem to be secondary prosecutors, rather than being 
impartial. So the best one can hope for is a judge who at least attempts 
to afford the defendant an adequate opportunity to present his case. To 
his credit, the judge in this case appeared to be doing that. I knew the 
prosecution had little to offer by way of actual evidence, so I focused 
my examination of the trial upon other aspects, primarily, the defense.

Any federal defense attorney knows that jury selection is of PRIMARY 
importance. 

The jury pool (the mass of people who are called in, and from which 
jurors are then selected) itself can be "rigged" so it is important to 
learn how the juror pool was called in. The people in the juror pool are 
supposed to be "representative" of the general population.

I did not hear of any challenge to the juror pool (from which jurors 
were chosen) in advance, which is something that should ordinarily be 
done, particularly when the jury pool does not appear to be 
representative of the population, i.e., Macon is about 50% black. The 
jury pool was not 50% black, not even 10% black. Why?

Was the juror pool chosen from the "voter registration" lists? How many 
people didn't show up? (The pool is no longer "representative" even if 
they were chosen from the voter registration list if enough didn't show 
up). There are various such challenges that can be made, depending on 
what was done.

I once got a jury pool that was made up of 90% people who were EMPLOYED 
BY THE GOVERNMENT (or their spouses were), I kid you not. How was this 
possible? 70% of the "registered voters" were government employees in 
that particular area, so the "voter registration list" was *not* 
"representative" of the population as a whole.

The juror pool is then asked questions by the judge as attorneys for 
both sides listen and watch. The judge can ask whatever he wants to ask; 
however, it is customary for him to ask questions submitted by the 
attorneys, so again, the attorney's role in preparing these questions is 
critical to determining which jurors should or should not be left to sit 
on the trial. From the judge's questioning, the attorneys "strike" 
various jurors, until there are 12 (plus 1-3 "extras") left. This is 
called "jury selection."

Lord was removed from the case before the jury selection began, but the 
questions to be submitted to the judge to ask the jurors are prepared in 
advance as the trial is developed, so she should have had these 
questions prepared before she was removed; likewise, Buafo would have 
prepared such questions and should have made challenges to any jurors 
that were struck off the jury by the government.

I did note that people who were "members of NRA" or various groups were 
apparently excluded for cause or by peremptory strikes by the 
government's attorneys. 

This sort of strike of a juror is subject to a challenge by the Defense 
that it is wholly illegal for the government to eliminate jurors based 
on "creed." That objection cannot be used against Defense strikes, but 
it can be used against the government. No one made it and good jurors 
were likely completely excluded without a whimper.

If no objection is made, it is hard to raise the issue as a reason for a 
new trial on appeal; however, "fundamental errors" (blatent errors or 
which violate Constitutional rights) can sometimes be raised on appeal 
anyway. An objection, however, preserves the error. If no objection is 
made, it is difficult to appeal it as "error." This is why it is 
extremely important for an attorney to know the various objections and 
make them.

The Barker brothers were paid $50,000.00. That's not chump change for 
most people. Testimony showed that ATF and the Barker brothers planted 
evidence in Starr's backyard when he wasn't home and didn't know about 
it.

Lord is hired as the attorney. She asks me to help. I wrote the initial 
responses filed with the court and she signed them (from which she was 
written up as a "patriot attorney"). I then heard from the propagandists 
denouncing me for "not helping" (Jeff Randall being one, when he most 
assuredly knew that I had, in fact, helped, so this was a most obvious 
effort by Randall), while I could not say anything about it. 

When Jeff's "good friend" Mike Kemp was arrested for pot, it was Jeff 
who publicly declared that Mike did what he was accused of. Mike was 
convicted about the same time as Starr, too. It was also Jeff who tried 
to undermine the Good Ol' Boys tapes by claiming they had been 
"altered," though he later was the one to publicly take credit for 
causing the stink. (He did not, it was Rich Hayward, Mike Kemp and Mike 
Seibert who did and it was Rich Hayward who filmed the Good Ol' Boys 
information). When something can't be undermined, it is Jeff's practice 
to take credit for it, instead.  On the Starr case, Jeff Randall also 
functioned as the "investigator." Another clue. 

I mention this because I worked with Lord on a previous case where the 
defense was actively undermined (by an operative, not Lord) to a degree 
I had never seen before, ever, but it appeared to me then that she was 
part of the problem, too. In the previous case I worked on in which Lord 
assisted, I was lead counsel and could exercise quite a bit of control 
over the way the case progressed, but it took every bit of tenacity I 
had just to hold onto the case. It was phenomenal what I was hit with in 
that case by the primary operative. It was a successful defense in that 
the primary target ended up with 2 years (will serve 8 mos), when he 
faced 10 years, and the other intended targets of a "conspiracy" were 
never charged, but that is a damning commentary, too. I had to FIGHT 
like a dog to get this guy "only" 2 years and keep 8 other people out of 
the picture? And I *wasn't* fighting with the prosecution, but with the 
operative (I did not at first realize the operative was an operative), 
and to a degree, with Lord and some law clerk she brought into the 
equation who was a pain in the butt.

This was why I would not come on this case -- it appeared to be being 
actively undermined from the beginning and to be used as a vehicle to 
take down the credibility of as many patriots at once as possible (i.e., 
JJ Johnson being but another example, and my being an intended target as 
well). 

I have no explanation for why Bob Starr chose to hire Lord, given her 
already established history at that point in the Michael Hill case, 
other than it should have been obvious. 

Sex as a Weapon:

The operative in the previous case I worked on, who was supposedly a 
very close friend of the defendant, had been brought in precisely to 
befriend the defendant and set up everyone. In that case the operative 
represented she was "common law married" to the defendant, which further 
complicated things.

I note that using women to sleep with men to "befriend" them has become 
something of a theme of the female operatives. (This is a tried and true 
military intelligence operating tactic so I don't see why this should 
surprise anybody). 

Are some men really this stupid that they fall for it? Yes. Even after 
being totally screwed and then screwed over by these women who set them 
up and did them in, I know three men who still think those woman 
wouldn't hurt them, love them, etc. Two are in prison as a direct 
result, too, and they still don't get it.


Setting up the Incompetent with the All Too Willing:

In the previous case I worked on and another I did not work on but am 
familiar with, I have determined the feds target people who are slightly 
"off" and hope to rope in others into a "conspiracy" that is developed 
by placing a key informant next to the nutty person. The key informant 
is credible and recruits all the others into the "conspiracy." 

The others do not need to actually participate in any "conspiracy" for 
this to occur and need do nothing more than appear at a meeting, for 
instance.

The informant will have had lots of opportunities for "private" 
conversations with the "nut," which are tape-recorded, and will be 
played for the jury, as the "nut" confides his deepest secret desires to 
his "good friend," the informant, or babbles idiot plans and nonsense in 
a fit of pique, inspired, but not taped, by the informant, who tapes the 
target's responses. Picture how these tapes will sound to a jury. Gads.

The other "conspirators" will never know about these tapes until the 
trial. The "informant" however, will be the key person who says, "He 
said this to me" (play the tapes) and "all these other people went along 
with his plan." (Tying in the "co-conspirators.") and the informant will 
say the others "came to this meeting" to hear about the plans. Bingo, 
now, everyone's in a big "conspiracy."

It is a pretty standard formula being used by the feds. Remember, at 
trial, the operative no longer appears to be the target's "friend." The 
informant is the government's friend. The informant will be taught how 
to present himself to the jury and appear even more credible, like he 
was trying to "save" the public from some dire harm, just "doing his 
public duty."

See how that looks? The most "credible" witness is on the government's 
side, looking like a good samaritan. He will explain how it pains him to 
tell all these terrible things about his FORMER "good friend," the 
target.

At the defense table, the jury will see the "nut" or target and his 
"co-conspirators" and the jury will hear the babbling and crazy 
"confidential" tapes played, as they look at the "nut" and his "friends" 
while the "good-guy informant" tells them how all these folks were 
planning to do nasty terrible things. The "good-guy informant" of course 
will be backed up by "good-guy law enforcement" who will parade a lot of 
evidence, whether it is relevant or not, to support this public bastion 
of integrity, their informant, emphasizing how good his work was.

The Ray Lampley case is a good example of this that most are familiar 
with. I'd say the Freemen case probably presents another such example. 
The "viper militia" case may also be another case in point, but I do not 
have enough details about that to be sure. The W. Virginia case is 
definitely another example. The New Hampshire/ Connecticut case is the 
clearest example I've seen anywhere.

Under the best of circumstances, this is a tough kind of case to win, 
because it is not much different than a witch trial. Get enough people 
pointing fingers crying, "WITCH!", at a somewhat nutty person who may 
even like being called a witch, and what's the defense?


Prepare to throw the fight:

Back to how a case is undermined. 

In the previous case, and in the Starr case, Lord screws a key defense 
witness, JJ Johnson, compromising the witness, and thereby compromising 
the defense (and JJ Johnson's credibility). 

Starr's case was the third case and third witness in six months she did 
this with of which I am aware, thus, I tend to believe the problem is 
Lord. She also did not take herself off any of the cases after this 
occurred, either, which means that, in the middle of trial, had any of 
these witnesses been called, picture what the OTHER side could have done 
to those witnesses with a few well-placed questions.

Next, in Starr's case, Lord goes out and gathers two of the most damning 
pieces of evidence introduced at the trial against these men (pipes and 
tape with fingerprints). Whether these things were innocuous or not 
(McCranie is a plumber, after all), doesn't matter. The government 
obviously will and DID claim they were "PROOF!"

Lord PUBLICLY comments "Starr said they would be found there." 
(Revealing a client confidence and implicating Starr). These comments 
were reprinted in newspapers, in case the jury pool missed them.

By gathering evidence, which attorneys do *NOT* do, she made herself a 
witness, which she knew. She should have removed herself from the case 
immediately, but did not, resulting in a 2 month trial delay (while 
Starr was in jail) and resulting in the defense having inadequate time 
to prepare.

Her co-counsel had to be removed because of a cocaine habit. I do not 
know who selected the cokehead as co-counsel.

The evidence gathered by Lord was introduced at trial. The defense could 
not very well OBJECT to its introduction because that would result in 
Lord being called by the prosecution, to "authenticate" the evidence 
(prove where it came from) so it could be introduced and it would have 
come in anyway, and using Starr's own attorney to do it.

Thus, the prosecution was able to introduce the evidence without the 
ordinary objections that could have been used to get the evidence 
excluded had it been found by law enforcement. More importantly, it 
might never have BEEN found had she not gone out to get it. If found, it 
would have been subject to a lot of different challenges, not the least 
of which would have been the obvious, "WAS IT PLANTED?" (Other evidence 
was shown to have been planted). 

Who planted it? Since it was "found" by the Defense Attorney, that in 
itself raises questions that should have been asked, but couldn't be, 
without putting Starr's own attorney on the stand, i.e., "Nancy, did you 
plant the evidence?" "No, Bob Starr said it was there." Starr would be 
screwed either way.

If the defense challenged the evidence, how does it look for Starr's 
attorney to be going out to get this "innocuous" evidence? Was she maybe 
planning to hide it? Starr can then be implicated by innuendo. It won't 
do any good to point out that it's only plumbing pipe and McCranie's a 
plumber. If it was so unimportant, what was she doing there getting it? 
That's what the government would do with that scenario. Starr is 
screwed, either way.

And the pipes had "chemical residue" on them when they were introduced 
at trial. When did that get on the pipes? Was it planted? Could that be 
challenged? Nope. See above. See how important this evidence became and 
how easily it was done?

Thus, no questions can be asked, and this damning evidence comes in that 
cannot be shown to have been planted. 

If it has "chemical residue" on it at trial, what challenge can be made 
to how and when it got there? None.

It then has the double-whammy of making the other, known planted 
evidence look not-so-bad. The jury thinks, after all, they got this 
evidence that wasn't planted, didn't they? The known "planted" evidence 
becomes irrelevant. It isn't needed to "prove" anything and it doesn't 
hurt the government because they got the other evidence -- from Nancy 
Lord -- in, without the jury learning anything other than what the 
government said it meant.


Throw the fight:

Last, but not least, I do not know how Starr got the attorney he ended 
up with at trial, but she was black, in Macon, Georgia. I grew up in 
Georgia and regardless of the progress affirmative action has made or 
how things "ought" to be if all were right with the world, one can 
expect some racial animus in Macon, when the jury is predominantly 
white. 

She had a shaved head and a pony-tail thing and wore star-wars clothes, 
likewise probably not a wise move in Macon, Georgia.

Comments I have received from a well-informed patriot attending the 
trial were to the effect that Buafo was not interested in any of the 
technical aspects of the so-called "bomb making" chemical (which is an 
innocuous chemical, non-explosive, used in hand-held, homemade 
fireworks, like fizzle-sticks) and did nothing to challenge ATF's claims 
that the chemical was "explosive." (It's legal to own 10 pounds of this 
"explosive," which is not "explosive," and is used in all sorts of 
harmless homemade fireworks).

The initial pleadings I wrote were laid to develop the theme that speech 
is not a crime, nor is possessing an accumulation of legal items, absent 
any intent, a crime, and that the ATF has a history as lying scumbags 
with bad information who cultivate criminal activity, with a secondary 
theme of lack of jurisdiction.

I did not hear that any effort was made to develop these themes, i.e., 
to challenge jurisdiction, discredit ATF with voluminous information 
about their long history of lying and setting up crimes, or to show that 
these items were normal, legal household items and that their possession 
and speech, without more, are not crimes. 

Jury instructions, given to jurors before they leave to deliberate guilt 
or acquittal, are also of crucial importance. These, too, are prepared 
by the attorney and provided to the judge and argued, if the judge 
refuses to give them.

===================

Now three guys who actually did nothing to harm anyone anywhere, are 
looking at 20-30 years in federal slave labor camps, their families and 
lives destroyed.

I get criticized (mostly by the propagandists) for "outing" the fed 
trolls, claiming I see boogey-men in the closets.

Well, no, I don't. I see less than 20 known operatives, doing their 
damnedest to rope good people into criminal convictions and it's the 
same ones, over and over.

The federal government has an unlimited budget. ADL makes more than 
$400,000 (that it publicly admits) QUARTERLY and SPLC has a 60 million 
dollar trust fund. Just how hard do you think it is for them to fund 
operatives with $50,000 in chump change? When they have spent, as you 
have seen, millions upon millions of dollars in media propaganda and 
lobbying, to get legislation passed, what is another $500,000 to pay for 
a couple dozen operatives? 

Parsons at Tri-States was paid. The Barker brothers were paid. Now you 
have this proof in court records that the Barker brothers were paid and 
even put into a witness protection program. How hard is it to figure 
out? Clue up, folks.

ATF, ADL, and SPLC now have something to "write" about, an actual 
militia "conviction," which they never had before. You saw the mileage 
in the propaganda they wrote before, that was nothing but lies. Picture 
the spinmeisters with this. 

Their money was well spent.

---End of forwarded mail from lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)

-- 
=======================================================================
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916-450-7941 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@the-spa.com
=======================================================================
"Governmental Corruption Must Be Challanged"
 "Homesteadr" James Vallaster
   2943 Oak Court
    Granbury, Texas 76048
     a0003517@airmail.net


From jon.roland@the-spa.com Sun Nov 10 07:25:18 PST 1996
Article: 44719 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (fca9c35aef1a80cf4779a99e26b177fd)
From: "Jon Roland" 
Organization: none
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 6:18:11 GMT
X-Mailer: Z-Mail 4.0.1 (4.0.1 Apr  9 1996)
Message-ID: <847606691$1274@atype.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: STUNG
Lines: 127



--- Forwarded mail from jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall)

To: jon.roland@the-spa.com, lindat@iquest.net
Subject: Re: STUNG
From: jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:54:55 EST

To Jon Roland, Linda Thompson and every other internet warrior that
hasn't done a Goddamned thing except bitch:

Last damn thing the Starr family needs is a bunch of Goddamned Monday 
morning quarterbacks. It seems to me everyone criticizing the way this 
case was handled is the very sons-of-bitches that didn't show up or do 
anything to help the families. It's about like elections, if you don't 
vote, then don't bitch! Yeah, there were mistakes made, and everyone has 
accepted that responsibility.

This fucking patriot movement is only good for those who want to wage 
war on the internet, and tell everyone else what they should have done. 
You assholes didn't have to look the Starr family in their eyes, and 
help them make decisions on whether you cut deals or take your chances. 

Except for a few (and ya'll know who you are) this whole Goddamned 
patriot movement can go straight to hell, because I trust the damn feds 
more than I trust you bunch of assholes. Bob Starr is one hell of a 
patriot that does not blame his predicament on anyone that tried to 
help, and if any of you wish to blame or criticize Bob's incarceration 
on Nancy, JJ or anyone else associated with this case, then let me know 
where you would like to meet, because I want you to tell me face to face 
(if you have the guts), otherwise shut your fucking mouth. Bob Starr, 
Jimmy McCranie, Troy Spain and their associated families are the ONLY 
ones that have the right to bitch about those who tried to help them... 
not you Monday morning quarterbacks. Ya'll are pitiful... pointing 
fingers after the fact, instead of getting involved during the 
situation.

If these men would have been acquitted, then all of you would have been 
praising the whole damn team.... bunch of damn fair weather friends and 
sunshine patriots... like I said .... Rot in Hell.

To all of you who supported this case and family and didn't bitch unless 
you got involved, then please accept my appreciation and thanks. To 
Linda Thompson: Go to Hell, you have stooped to a new low trying to 
capitalize off of the Starr, McCranie and Spain families hardships, 
anyone who would use innocent people's hardships to wage war against 
those they don't like is a sorry piece of shit. I expected as much from 
a 2 bit self-centered attorney such as yourself. To Jon Roland, you 
should know better, but then again, maybe you don't. Linda, you're right 
about me in one respect, if this is what the militia and patriot 
movement is all about, then by God I'm not part of it, and hope the 
whole Goddamned movement falls on its ass. Screw you bunch of 
self-centered egotistical wannabes. The only battle you folks ever do is 
with your computer, you've yet to put your ass on the line for anyone. 
Again, go to Hell!! You got a problem with that? then, like I said, name 
your damn meeting place.

Jeff Randall


On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:13:58 -0700 "Jon Roland" 
writes:
>Linda makes some interesting points and raises some important 
>questions 
>about the adequacy of the defense in this case, whether due to intent 
>or 
>merely incompetence. It serves to emphasize the need for more good 
>patriot attorneys to cover every part of the country.
>
>We also need more information about some of the other cases than we 
>have 
>been getting: W. Virginia, Washington, NH/CT, etc.

---End of forwarded mail from jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall)

Forwarding Linda Thompson's message does not mean I agreed with it, only 
that it contained some useful points. Jeff's message also contains some 
useful points, and I will also be forwarding it to the same recipients, 
together with my comments.

First, we all all angry about the result, but we need to cool off and 
think about it, and learn from it. This is not just about the victims in 
Macon. We've just lost a game, but we've got another one coming up, and 
more after that. We need to discuss among ourselves exactly what 
happened, who did what, where, when, how, and why, what worked and what 
didn't, and how we can do better next time.

And just because some of us weren't on the scene for this game doesn't 
mean we don't have a right to question or comment, because each of us is 
likely to have a game of his own to play on his home field soon. We have 
an adversary who tends to follow a somewhat unimaginative, but fairly 
consistent, strategy, one that we can learn to defeat. It is much the 
same strategy it has played throughout the country's history, against 
other movements. Each of them lost, learned, and some of them went on 
the win the playoffs. It is a test we all have to go through to prove 
the worthiness of our causes. Today we have the advantage of more rapid 
and effective information-sharing. Let's take advantage of that and turn 
those losses into victories sooner than other movements in the past.

We need to begin by compiling and sharing the documentation in the case. 
Remember, during the Randy Weaver trial we got daily transcripts of the 
trial proceedings. We need those now, together with copies of all the 
pleadings, information on the jury panel, notes on voir dire 
proceedings, descriptions of the evidence presented, and briefs from any 
attorneys involved, including Thompson, Lord, and Buafo, on errors in 
the case and grounds for appeal. Next we need to consult with any 
attorneys who can volunteer to advise us on points in this case, and 
perhaps find a good one to handle an appeal. We need to share this 
material with attorneys representing others currently under attack, 
whether they be in Arizona, Washington, West Virginia, Colorado, or 
wherever, and get their comments. If any of them appear to be about to 
make any mistakes that have been made in the past, or that we can 
foresee, then we need to point that out to them, and help them do better 
or find someone who can.

The best way to handle anger is to get to work to prevent the cause of 
that anger from happening again. Everyone has something to contribute to 
that. Let's do it.

--Jon

-- 
=======================================================================
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916-450-7941 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@the-spa.com
=======================================================================


From jon.roland@the-spa.com Sun Nov 10 07:25:22 PST 1996
Article: 44732 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (79b5eae15a1d6e3012f602fdc962f8a1)
From: "Jon Roland" 
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 96 10:33:05 GMT
X-Mailer: Z-Mail 4.0.1 (4.0.1 Apr  9 1996)
Message-ID: <847535585$27238@atype.com>
Subject: (Fwd) STUNG
Lines: 388


Linda makes some interesting points and raises some important questions 
about the adequacy of the defense in this case, whether due to intent or 
merely incompetence. It serves to emphasize the need for more good 
patriot attorneys to cover every part of the country.

We also need more information about some of the other cases than we have 
been getting: W. Virginia, Washington, NH/CT, etc.

--- Forwarded mail from lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)

Date: Fri, 8 Nov 96 08:22 EST
To: Non-aen
From: lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)
Subject: STUNG

Re: So-called "Militia bombing" convictions

Despite the propaganda about the jury and the trial that was coming out 
of Macon throughout the trial of Bob Starr in Georgia, the source of 
most of the "we'll win" and now the "it's a miscarriage of justice" 
posts was Nancy Lord.

It is significant to know the lengths that were gone to in this case to 
secure the conviction, aside from the obvious that evidence was planted 
by ATF and the informants and that the infomants were paid $50,000.00.

As an attorney, I believe the Defense attorneys, Nancy Lord, and Buafo 
were instrumental in the convictions.

For starters, any federal trial is "rigged" to an extent, because most 
federal judges seem to be secondary prosecutors, rather than being 
impartial. So the best one can hope for is a judge who at least attempts 
to afford the defendant an adequate opportunity to present his case. To 
his credit, the judge in this case appeared to be doing that. I knew the 
prosecution had little to offer by way of actual evidence, so I focused 
my examination of the trial upon other aspects, primarily, the defense.

Any federal defense attorney knows that jury selection is of PRIMARY 
importance. 

The jury pool (the mass of people who are called in, and from which 
jurors are then selected) itself can be "rigged" so it is important to 
learn how the juror pool was called in. The people in the juror pool are 
supposed to be "representative" of the general population.

I did not hear of any challenge to the juror pool (from which jurors 
were chosen) in advance, which is something that should ordinarily be 
done, particularly when the jury pool does not appear to be 
representative of the population, i.e., Macon is about 50% black. The 
jury pool was not 50% black, not even 10% black. Why?

Was the juror pool chosen from the "voter registration" lists? How many 
people didn't show up? (The pool is no longer "representative" even if 
they were chosen from the voter registration list if enough didn't show 
up). There are various such challenges that can be made, depending on 
what was done.

I once got a jury pool that was made up of 90% people who were EMPLOYED 
BY THE GOVERNMENT (or their spouses were), I kid you not. How was this 
possible? 70% of the "registered voters" were government employees in 
that particular area, so the "voter registration list" was *not* 
"representative" of the population as a whole.

The juror pool is then asked questions by the judge as attorneys for 
both sides listen and watch. The judge can ask whatever he wants to ask; 
however, it is customary for him to ask questions submitted by the 
attorneys, so again, the attorney's role in preparing these questions is 
critical to determining which jurors should or should not be left to sit 
on the trial. From the judge's questioning, the attorneys "strike" 
various jurors, until there are 12 (plus 1-3 "extras") left. This is 
called "jury selection."

Lord was removed from the case before the jury selection began, but the 
questions to be submitted to the judge to ask the jurors are prepared in 
advance as the trial is developed, so she should have had these 
questions prepared before she was removed; likewise, Buafo would have 
prepared such questions and should have made challenges to any jurors 
that were struck off the jury by the government.

I did note that people who were "members of NRA" or various groups were 
apparently excluded for cause or by peremptory strikes by the 
government's attorneys. 

This sort of strike of a juror is subject to a challenge by the Defense 
that it is wholly illegal for the government to eliminate jurors based 
on "creed." That objection cannot be used against Defense strikes, but 
it can be used against the government. No one made it and good jurors 
were likely completely excluded without a whimper.

If no objection is made, it is hard to raise the issue as a reason for a 
new trial on appeal; however, "fundamental errors" (blatent errors or 
which violate Constitutional rights) can sometimes be raised on appeal 
anyway. An objection, however, preserves the error. If no objection is 
made, it is difficult to appeal it as "error." This is why it is 
extremely important for an attorney to know the various objections and 
make them.

The Barker brothers were paid $50,000.00. That's not chump change for 
most people. Testimony showed that ATF and the Barker brothers planted 
evidence in Starr's backyard when he wasn't home and didn't know about 
it.

Lord is hired as the attorney. She asks me to help. I wrote the initial 
responses filed with the court and she signed them (from which she was 
written up as a "patriot attorney"). I then heard from the propagandists 
denouncing me for "not helping" (Jeff Randall being one, when he most 
assuredly knew that I had, in fact, helped, so this was a most obvious 
effort by Randall), while I could not say anything about it. 

When Jeff's "good friend" Mike Kemp was arrested for pot, it was Jeff 
who publicly declared that Mike did what he was accused of. Mike was 
convicted about the same time as Starr, too. It was also Jeff who tried 
to undermine the Good Ol' Boys tapes by claiming they had been 
"altered," though he later was the one to publicly take credit for 
causing the stink. (He did not, it was Rich Hayward, Mike Kemp and Mike 
Seibert who did and it was Rich Hayward who filmed the Good Ol' Boys 
information). When something can't be undermined, it is Jeff's practice 
to take credit for it, instead.  On the Starr case, Jeff Randall also 
functioned as the "investigator." Another clue. 

I mention this because I worked with Lord on a previous case where the 
defense was actively undermined (by an operative, not Lord) to a degree 
I had never seen before, ever, but it appeared to me then that she was 
part of the problem, too. In the previous case I worked on in which Lord 
assisted, I was lead counsel and could exercise quite a bit of control 
over the way the case progressed, but it took every bit of tenacity I 
had just to hold onto the case. It was phenomenal what I was hit with in 
that case by the primary operative. It was a successful defense in that 
the primary target ended up with 2 years (will serve 8 mos), when he 
faced 10 years, and the other intended targets of a "conspiracy" were 
never charged, but that is a damning commentary, too. I had to FIGHT 
like a dog to get this guy "only" 2 years and keep 8 other people out of 
the picture? And I *wasn't* fighting with the prosecution, but with the 
operative (I did not at first realize the operative was an operative), 
and to a degree, with Lord and some law clerk she brought into the 
equation who was a pain in the butt.

This was why I would not come on this case -- it appeared to be being 
actively undermined from the beginning and to be used as a vehicle to 
take down the credibility of as many patriots at once as possible (i.e., 
JJ Johnson being but another example, and my being an intended target as 
well). 

I have no explanation for why Bob Starr chose to hire Lord, given her 
already established history at that point in the Michael Hill case, 
other than it should have been obvious. 

Sex as a Weapon:

The operative in the previous case I worked on, who was supposedly a 
very close friend of the defendant, had been brought in precisely to 
befriend the defendant and set up everyone. In that case the operative 
represented she was "common law married" to the defendant, which further 
complicated things.

I note that using women to sleep with men to "befriend" them has become 
something of a theme of the female operatives. (This is a tried and true 
military intelligence operating tactic so I don't see why this should 
surprise anybody). 

Are some men really this stupid that they fall for it? Yes. Even after 
being totally screwed and then screwed over by these women who set them 
up and did them in, I know three men who still think those woman 
wouldn't hurt them, love them, etc. Two are in prison as a direct 
result, too, and they still don't get it.


Setting up the Incompetent with the All Too Willing:

In the previous case I worked on and another I did not work on but am 
familiar with, I have determined the feds target people who are slightly 
"off" and hope to rope in others into a "conspiracy" that is developed 
by placing a key informant next to the nutty person. The key informant 
is credible and recruits all the others into the "conspiracy." 

The others do not need to actually participate in any "conspiracy" for 
this to occur and need do nothing more than appear at a meeting, for 
instance.

The informant will have had lots of opportunities for "private" 
conversations with the "nut," which are tape-recorded, and will be 
played for the jury, as the "nut" confides his deepest secret desires to 
his "good friend," the informant, or babbles idiot plans and nonsense in 
a fit of pique, inspired, but not taped, by the informant, who tapes the 
target's responses. Picture how these tapes will sound to a jury. Gads.

The other "conspirators" will never know about these tapes until the 
trial. The "informant" however, will be the key person who says, "He 
said this to me" (play the tapes) and "all these other people went along 
with his plan." (Tying in the "co-conspirators.") and the informant will 
say the others "came to this meeting" to hear about the plans. Bingo, 
now, everyone's in a big "conspiracy."

It is a pretty standard formula being used by the feds. Remember, at 
trial, the operative no longer appears to be the target's "friend." The 
informant is the government's friend. The informant will be taught how 
to present himself to the jury and appear even more credible, like he 
was trying to "save" the public from some dire harm, just "doing his 
public duty."

See how that looks? The most "credible" witness is on the government's 
side, looking like a good samaritan. He will explain how it pains him to 
tell all these terrible things about his FORMER "good friend," the 
target.

At the defense table, the jury will see the "nut" or target and his 
"co-conspirators" and the jury will hear the babbling and crazy 
"confidential" tapes played, as they look at the "nut" and his "friends" 
while the "good-guy informant" tells them how all these folks were 
planning to do nasty terrible things. The "good-guy informant" of course 
will be backed up by "good-guy law enforcement" who will parade a lot of 
evidence, whether it is relevant or not, to support this public bastion 
of integrity, their informant, emphasizing how good his work was.

The Ray Lampley case is a good example of this that most are familiar 
with. I'd say the Freemen case probably presents another such example. 
The "viper militia" case may also be another case in point, but I do not 
have enough details about that to be sure. The W. Virginia case is 
definitely another example. The New Hampshire/ Connecticut case is the 
clearest example I've seen anywhere.

Under the best of circumstances, this is a tough kind of case to win, 
because it is not much different than a witch trial. Get enough people 
pointing fingers crying, "WITCH!", at a somewhat nutty person who may 
even like being called a witch, and what's the defense?


Prepare to throw the fight:

Back to how a case is undermined. 

In the previous case, and in the Starr case, Lord screws a key defense 
witness, JJ Johnson, compromising the witness, and thereby compromising 
the defense (and JJ Johnson's credibility). 

Starr's case was the third case and third witness in six months she did 
this with of which I am aware, thus, I tend to believe the problem is 
Lord. She also did not take herself off any of the cases after this 
occurred, either, which means that, in the middle of trial, had any of 
these witnesses been called, picture what the OTHER side could have done 
to those witnesses with a few well-placed questions.

Next, in Starr's case, Lord goes out and gathers two of the most damning 
pieces of evidence introduced at the trial against these men (pipes and 
tape with fingerprints). Whether these things were innocuous or not 
(McCranie is a plumber, after all), doesn't matter. The government 
obviously will and DID claim they were "PROOF!"

Lord PUBLICLY comments "Starr said they would be found there." 
(Revealing a client confidence and implicating Starr). These comments 
were reprinted in newspapers, in case the jury pool missed them.

By gathering evidence, which attorneys do *NOT* do, she made herself a 
witness, which she knew. She should have removed herself from the case 
immediately, but did not, resulting in a 2 month trial delay (while 
Starr was in jail) and resulting in the defense having inadequate time 
to prepare.

Her co-counsel had to be removed because of a cocaine habit. I do not 
know who selected the cokehead as co-counsel.

The evidence gathered by Lord was introduced at trial. The defense could 
not very well OBJECT to its introduction because that would result in 
Lord being called by the prosecution, to "authenticate" the evidence 
(prove where it came from) so it could be introduced and it would have 
come in anyway, and using Starr's own attorney to do it.

Thus, the prosecution was able to introduce the evidence without the 
ordinary objections that could have been used to get the evidence 
excluded had it been found by law enforcement. More importantly, it 
might never have BEEN found had she not gone out to get it. If found, it 
would have been subject to a lot of different challenges, not the least 
of which would have been the obvious, "WAS IT PLANTED?" (Other evidence 
was shown to have been planted). 

Who planted it? Since it was "found" by the Defense Attorney, that in 
itself raises questions that should have been asked, but couldn't be, 
without putting Starr's own attorney on the stand, i.e., "Nancy, did you 
plant the evidence?" "No, Bob Starr said it was there." Starr would be 
screwed either way.

If the defense challenged the evidence, how does it look for Starr's 
attorney to be going out to get this "innocuous" evidence? Was she maybe 
planning to hide it? Starr can then be implicated by innuendo. It won't 
do any good to point out that it's only plumbing pipe and McCranie's a 
plumber. If it was so unimportant, what was she doing there getting it? 
That's what the government would do with that scenario. Starr is 
screwed, either way.

And the pipes had "chemical residue" on them when they were introduced 
at trial. When did that get on the pipes? Was it planted? Could that be 
challenged? Nope. See above. See how important this evidence became and 
how easily it was done?

Thus, no questions can be asked, and this damning evidence comes in that 
cannot be shown to have been planted. 

If it has "chemical residue" on it at trial, what challenge can be made 
to how and when it got there? None.

It then has the double-whammy of making the other, known planted 
evidence look not-so-bad. The jury thinks, after all, they got this 
evidence that wasn't planted, didn't they? The known "planted" evidence 
becomes irrelevant. It isn't needed to "prove" anything and it doesn't 
hurt the government because they got the other evidence -- from Nancy 
Lord -- in, without the jury learning anything other than what the 
government said it meant.


Throw the fight:

Last, but not least, I do not know how Starr got the attorney he ended 
up with at trial, but she was black, in Macon, Georgia. I grew up in 
Georgia and regardless of the progress affirmative action has made or 
how things "ought" to be if all were right with the world, one can 
expect some racial animus in Macon, when the jury is predominantly 
white. 

She had a shaved head and a pony-tail thing and wore star-wars clothes, 
likewise probably not a wise move in Macon, Georgia.

Comments I have received from a well-informed patriot attending the 
trial were to the effect that Buafo was not interested in any of the 
technical aspects of the so-called "bomb making" chemical (which is an 
innocuous chemical, non-explosive, used in hand-held, homemade 
fireworks, like fizzle-sticks) and did nothing to challenge ATF's claims 
that the chemical was "explosive." (It's legal to own 10 pounds of this 
"explosive," which is not "explosive," and is used in all sorts of 
harmless homemade fireworks).

The initial pleadings I wrote were laid to develop the theme that speech 
is not a crime, nor is possessing an accumulation of legal items, absent 
any intent, a crime, and that the ATF has a history as lying scumbags 
with bad information who cultivate criminal activity, with a secondary 
theme of lack of jurisdiction.

I did not hear that any effort was made to develop these themes, i.e., 
to challenge jurisdiction, discredit ATF with voluminous information 
about their long history of lying and setting up crimes, or to show that 
these items were normal, legal household items and that their possession 
and speech, without more, are not crimes. 

Jury instructions, given to jurors before they leave to deliberate guilt 
or acquittal, are also of crucial importance. These, too, are prepared 
by the attorney and provided to the judge and argued, if the judge 
refuses to give them.

===================

Now three guys who actually did nothing to harm anyone anywhere, are 
looking at 20-30 years in federal slave labor camps, their families and 
lives destroyed.

I get criticized (mostly by the propagandists) for "outing" the fed 
trolls, claiming I see boogey-men in the closets.

Well, no, I don't. I see less than 20 known operatives, doing their 
damnedest to rope good people into criminal convictions and it's the 
same ones, over and over.

The federal government has an unlimited budget. ADL makes more than 
$400,000 (that it publicly admits) QUARTERLY and SPLC has a 60 million 
dollar trust fund. Just how hard do you think it is for them to fund 
operatives with $50,000 in chump change? When they have spent, as you 
have seen, millions upon millions of dollars in media propaganda and 
lobbying, to get legislation passed, what is another $500,000 to pay for 
a couple dozen operatives? 

Parsons at Tri-States was paid. The Barker brothers were paid. Now you 
have this proof in court records that the Barker brothers were paid and 
even put into a witness protection program. How hard is it to figure 
out? Clue up, folks.

ATF, ADL, and SPLC now have something to "write" about, an actual 
militia "conviction," which they never had before. You saw the mileage 
in the propaganda they wrote before, that was nothing but lies. Picture 
the spinmeisters with this. 

Their money was well spent.

---End of forwarded mail from lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)

-- 
=======================================================================
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916-450-7941 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@the-spa.com
=======================================================================


From jon.roland@the-spa.com Sun Nov 10 12:14:15 PST 1996
Article: 108429 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!myriad!mail
From: "Jon Roland" 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.law.enforcement,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.revolution,alt.society.conservatism
Subject: Re: STUNG
Date: 10 Nov 1996 08:34:44 -0500
Organization: Mail to Usenet Gateway
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <961109212317.ZM8359@xora>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Z-Mail 4.0.1 (4.0.1 Apr  9 1996)
To: alt.conspiracy@myriad.alias.net, alt.law.enforcement@myriad.alias.net,
        alt.politics.democrats.d@myriad.alias.net,
        alt.politics.usa.republican@myriad.alias.net,
        alt.society.revolution@myriad.alias.net,
        alt.society.conservatism@myriad.alias.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:108429 alt.politics.democrats.d:147588 alt.politics.usa.republican:325299 alt.society.revolution:17791 alt.society.conservatism:59741

--- Forwarded mail from jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall)

To: jon.roland@the-spa.com, lindat@iquest.net
Subject: Re: STUNG
From: jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall)
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:54:55 EST

To Jon Roland, Linda Thompson and every other internet warrior that
hasn't done a Goddamned thing except bitch:

Last damn thing the Starr family needs is a bunch of Goddamned Monday 
morning quarterbacks. It seems to me everyone criticizing the way this 
case was handled is the very sons-of-bitches that didn't show up or do 
anything to help the families. It's about like elections, if you don't 
vote, then don't bitch! Yeah, there were mistakes made, and everyone has 
accepted that responsibility.

This fucking patriot movement is only good for those who want to wage 
war on the internet, and tell everyone else what they should have done. 
You assholes didn't have to look the Starr family in their eyes, and 
help them make decisions on whether you cut deals or take your chances. 

Except for a few (and ya'll know who you are) this whole Goddamned 
patriot movement can go straight to hell, because I trust the damn feds 
more than I trust you bunch of assholes. Bob Starr is one hell of a 
patriot that does not blame his predicament on anyone that tried to 
help, and if any of you wish to blame or criticize Bob's incarceration 
on Nancy, JJ or anyone else associated with this case, then let me know 
where you would like to meet, because I want you to tell me face to face 
(if you have the guts), otherwise shut your fucking mouth. Bob Starr, 
Jimmy McCranie, Troy Spain and their associated families are the ONLY 
ones that have the right to bitch about those who tried to help them... 
not you Monday morning quarterbacks. Ya'll are pitiful... pointing 
fingers after the fact, instead of getting involved during the 
situation.

If these men would have been acquitted, then all of you would have been 
praising the whole damn team.... bunch of damn fair weather friends and 
sunshine patriots... like I said .... Rot in Hell.

To all of you who supported this case and family and didn't bitch unless 
you got involved, then please accept my appreciation and thanks. To 
Linda Thompson: Go to Hell, you have stooped to a new low trying to 
capitalize off of the Starr, McCranie and Spain families hardships, 
anyone who would use innocent people's hardships to wage war against 
those they don't like is a sorry piece of shit. I expected as much from 
a 2 bit self-centered attorney such as yourself. To Jon Roland, you 
should know better, but then again, maybe you don't. Linda, you're right 
about me in one respect, if this is what the militia and patriot 
movement is all about, then by God I'm not part of it, and hope the 
whole Goddamned movement falls on its ass. Screw you bunch of 
self-centered egotistical wannabes. The only battle you folks ever do is 
with your computer, you've yet to put your ass on the line for anyone. 
Again, go to Hell!! You got a problem with that? then, like I said, name 
your damn meeting place.

Jeff Randall


On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 01:13:58 -0700 "Jon Roland" 
writes:
>Linda makes some interesting points and raises some important 
>questions 
>about the adequacy of the defense in this case, whether due to intent 
>or 
>merely incompetence. It serves to emphasize the need for more good 
>patriot attorneys to cover every part of the country.
>
>We also need more information about some of the other cases than we 
>have 
>been getting: W. Virginia, Washington, NH/CT, etc.

---End of forwarded mail from jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall)

Forwarding Linda Thompson's message does not mean I agreed with it, only 
that it contained some useful points. Jeff's message also contains some 
useful points, and I will also be forwarding it to the same recipients, 
together with my comments.

First, we all all angry about the result, but we need to cool off and 
think about it, and learn from it. This is not just about the victims in 
Macon. We've just lost a game, but we've got another one coming up, and 
more after that. We need to discuss among ourselves exactly what 
happened, who did what, where, when, how, and why, what worked and what 
didn't, and how we can do better next time.

And just because some of us weren't on the scene for this game doesn't 
mean we don't have a right to question or comment, because each of us is 
likely to have a game of his own to play on his home field soon. We have 
an adversary who tends to follow a somewhat unimaginative, but fairly 
consistent, strategy, one that we can learn to defeat. It is much the 
same strategy it has played throughout the country's history, against 
other movements. Each of them lost, learned, and some of them went on 
the win the playoffs. It is a test we all have to go through to prove 
the worthiness of our causes. Today we have the advantage of more rapid 
and effective information-sharing. Let's take advantage of that and turn 
those losses into victories sooner than other movements in the past.

We need to begin by compiling and sharing the documentation in the case. 
Remember, during the Randy Weaver trial we got daily transcripts of the 
trial proceedings. We need those now, together with copies of all the 
pleadings, information on the jury panel, notes on voir dire 
proceedings, descriptions of the evidence presented, and briefs from any 
attorneys involved, including Thompson, Lord, and Buafo, on errors in 
the case and grounds for appeal. Next we need to consult with any 
attorneys who can volunteer to advise us on points in this case, and 
perhaps find a good one to handle an appeal. We need to share this 
material with attorneys representing others currently under attack, 
whether they be in Arizona, Washington, West Virginia, Colorado, or 
wherever, and get their comments. If any of them appear to be about to 
make any mistakes that have been made in the past, or that we can 
foresee, then we need to point that out to them, and help them do better 
or find someone who can.

The best way to handle anger is to get to work to prevent the cause of 
that anger from happening again. Everyone has something to contribute to 
that. Let's do it.

--Jon

-- 
=======================================================================
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916-450-7941 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@the-spa.com
=======================================================================


From jon.roland@the-spa.com Tue Nov 19 09:53:51 PST 1996
Article: 45731 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (092795ce0d6bda4fce6f20177fcd050f)
From: "Jon Roland" 
Organization: none
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 96 4:19:03 GMT
X-Mailer: Z-Mail 4.0.1 (4.0.1 Apr  9 1996)
Message-ID: <848031543$25037@atype.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: STUNG
Lines: 446



--- Forwarded mail from Nancy Lord 

Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:28:44 -0500
To: Lance R Crowe 
From: Nancy Lord 
Subject: Re: STUNG
Cc: pmitch@primenet.com, slinnab@freenet.columbus.oh.us,
        jon.roland@the-spa.com (Jon Roland), USAFeature@gnn.com,
        jeffrandall@juno.com (jeff s randall), hwysong@mindspring.com

At 02:25 PM 7/9/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Return-Path: lindat@iquest.net
>>Date: Fri, 8 Nov 96 07:50 EST
>>X-Sender: lindat@iquest.net
>>To: aen-news@aen.org
>>From: lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)
>>Subject: STUNG

To all of those who have sent me this:

        Thank you for passing this along.   My rebuttals are
for your eyes only, I have neither the time nor desire to
engage in an internet war on this matter.  It's counter-
productive.

        Please respect my wishes.   If you felt I needed to see it,
then you deserve to know the truth.

        For those of you who have already posted in my
defense, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

        I have snipped a few sections for clarity

In Liberty,


>>
>>Re:  So-called "Militia bombing" convictions
>>
>>Despite the propaganda about the jury and the trial that was coming 
out of
>>Macon throughout the trial of Bob Starr in Georgia, the source of most 
of
>>the "we'll win" and now the "it's a miscarriage of justice" posts was 
Nancy
>>Lord.

        I'll cop to that.
>>
>>It is significant to know the lengths that were gone to in this case 
to
>>secure the conviction, aside from the obvious that evidence was 
planted by
>>ATF and the informants and that the infomants were paid $50,000.00.

        True.
>>
>>As an attorney, I believe the Defense attorneys, Nancy Lord, and Buafo 
were
>>instrumental in the convictions

        Althea Buafo cleared her calendar for an entire month
and devoted full time efforts to this case.  Nearly everyone inside
the courtroom was thrilled with her performance.
>>
>>
>>I did not hear of any challenge to the juror pool (from which jurors 
were
>>chosen) in advance, which is something that should ordinarily be done,
>>particularly when the jury pool does not appear to be representative 
of the
>>population, i.e., Macon is about 50% black.  The jury pool was not 50%
>>black, not even 10% black.  Why?

        The jury, Linda, had ten out of 12 blacks.  That's a
little over 50% isn't is?
>>
>>Was the juror pool chosen from the "voter registration" lists?  How 
many
>>people didn't show up? (The pool is no longer "representative" even if 
they
>>were chosen from the voter registration list if enough didn't show 
up).
>>There are various such challenges that can be made, depending on what 
was
done.
>>
>>I once got a jury pool that was made up of 90% people who were 
EMPLOYED BY
>>THE GOVERNMENT (or their spouses were), I kid you not.  How was this
>>possible?  70% of the "registered voters" were government employees in 
that
>>particular area, so the "voter registration list" was *not* 
"representative"
>>of the population as a whole.
>>
        Actually, I filed a motion to have government workers
and their families excused for cause.   I lost.

>>The juror pool is then asked questions by the judge as attorneys for 
both
>>sides listen and watch.  The judge can ask whatever he wants to ask;
>>however, it is customary for him to ask questions submitted by the
>>attorneys, so again, the attorney's role in preparing these questions 
is
>>critical to determining which jurors should or should not be left to 
sit on
>>the trial.  From the judge's questioning, the attorneys "strike" 
various
>>jurors, until there are 12 (plus 1-3 "extras") left. This is called 
"jury
>>selection."

        We worked on these together.   I was not there for the
selection, and can't comment.
>>
>>Lord was removed from the case before the jury selection began, but 
the
>>questions to be submitted to the judge to ask the jurors are prepared 
in
>>advance as the trial is developed, so she should have had these 
questions
>>prepared before she was removed; likewise, Buafo would have prepared 
such
>>questions and should have made challenges to any jurors that were 
struck off
>>the jury by the government.
>>
>>I did note that people who were "members of NRA" or various groups 
were
>>apparently excluded for cause or by peremptory strikes by the 
government's
>>attorneys. 
>>
>>This sort of strike of a juror is subject to a challenge by the 
Defense that
>>it is wholly illegal for the government to eliminate jurors based on
>>"creed."  That objection cannot be used against Defense strikes, but 
it can
>>be used against the government.  No one made it and good jurors were 
likely
>>completely excluded without a whimper.

        You're right there.  Salamone.  I am surprised
she did not fight this.   But they probably would have come
up with another reason, like at a Batson hearing.
>>
>
>>Lord is hired as the attorney.  She asks me to help.  I wrote the 
initial
>>responses filed with the court and she signed them (from which she was
>>written up as a "patriot attorney"). 

        Here's the truth, Linda, I did not put your name on 
the briefs for 2 reasons, one of which I told you:
        1) It would leave you responsible for a case that you
were 500 miles from.
        2) It would leave me stuck with you as co-counsel, and
I truthfully was not happy with the way you handled the earlier case,
the one you mention below.

        I did acknowledge your help on short-wave, and to anyone who
asked.  Nor did I "use your brief" without changes.  A lot of the final 
brief
came, originally, from Larry Becraft, and part of it was stuff I had on 
file.


 When something can't be
>>undermined, it is Jeff's practice to take credit for it, instead.   On 
the
>>Starr case, Jeff Randall also functioned as the "investigator."  
Another
>clue.  

        Yes, he did, and he got a lot done.
>>
>>I mention this because I worked with Lord on a previous case where the
>>defense was actively undermined (by an operative, not Lord) to a 
degree I
>>had never seen before, ever, but it appeared to me then that she was 
part of
>>the problem, too.  In the previous case I worked on in which Lord 
assisted,
>>I was lead counsel and could exercise quite a bit of control over the 
way
>>the case progressed, but it took every bit of tenacity I had just to 
hold
>>onto the case.  It was phenomenal what I was hit with in that case by 
the
>>primary operative.  

        The truth is, Linda, you were fired from that case
for blowing a deadline.  I had to pinch-hit it, and it was me 
who got the 2 year plea agreement.



It was a successful defense in that the primary target
>>ended up with 2 years (will serve 8 mos), when he faced 10 years, and 
the
>>other intended targets of a "conspiracy" were never charged, but that 
is a
>>damning commentary, too.  I had to FIGHT like a dog to get this guy 
"only" 2
>>years and keep 8 other people out of the picture?  And I *wasn't* 
fighting
>>with the prosecution, but with the operative (I did not at first 
realize the
>>operative was an operative), and to a degree, with Lord and some law 
clerk
>>she brought into the equation who was a pain in the butt.


        BS, Linda.  You had nothing to do with the
plea negotiations.   You were long gone by then.
You did, I admit, fight like hell.   The District Attorneys 
office also reported death threats that they blamed
(rightly or wrongly) on you.   
        I think we got the good deal because they were
relieved not to have to deal with you anymore.
>>
>>This was why I would not come on this case -- it appeared to be being
>>actively undermined from the beginning and to be used as a vehicle to 
take
>>down the credibility of as many patriots at once as possible (i.e., JJ
>>Johnson being but another example, and my being an intended target as 
well).  

        What happened between me & JJ was personal.
Stop making a political issue of it, it's disgusting.
        
>>
>>I have no explanation for why Bob Starr chose to hire Lord, given her
>>already established history at that point in the Michael Hill case, 
other
>>than it should have been obvious. 

        Pardon me, but it was not me who screwed that case
up.   There were things done in Ohio, such as a "common law
indictment" that made it difficult.  
        I did not withdraw until Arlene told me she found local counsel,
which had been my recommendation from day 1.
>>
>>Sex as a Weapon:
>>
>>The operative in the previous case I worked on, who was supposedly a 
very
>>close friend of the defendant, had been brought in precisely to 
befriend the
>>defendant and set up everyone.  In that case the operative represented 
she
>>was "common law married" to the defendant, which further complicated 
things.

        This is crazy.  I know who you mean, and she was nothing but
supportive, both emotionally and financially.  She fired you, that is 
your problem.
>>
>>
>>Prepare to throw the fight:
>>
>>Back to how a case is undermined. 
>>
>>In the previous case, and in the Starr case, Lord screws a key defense
>>witness, JJ Johnson, compromising the witness, and thereby 
compromising the
>>defense (and JJ Johnson's credibility). 

        Ditto.  JJ was compromised as a witness when he testified
at the bond hearing and we heard a bit of the possible cross.
He was not going to testify anyway.   
        You realize of course that everything we say at meetings is
taped or noted by the government?  You just can't use a high profile
witness.   
>>
>>Starr's case was the third case and third witness in six months she 
did this
>>with of which I am aware, thus, I tend to believe the problem is Lord. 
 She
>>also did not take herself off any of the cases after this occurred, 
either,
>>which means that, in the middle of trial, had any of these witnesses 
been
>>called, picture what the OTHER side could have done to those witnesses 
with
>>a few well-placed questions.

        BS, Linda.  I know what you are talking about here too.
When we first met, I had spent some time with a man I have 
known for 15 years.   He came to Indy from a nearby state
to meet me, and had absolutely nothing to do with the Hill case.

        In the other "case" you refer to, I had a few dinners with a
possible witness long AFTER the case was over.

        This is a bunch of crap.

>>
>>Next, in Starr's case, Lord goes out and gathers two of the most 
damning
>>pieces of evidence introduced at the trial against these men (pipes 
and tape
>>with fingerprints).  Whether these things were innocuous or not 
(McCranie is
>>a plumber, after all), doesn't matter.  The government obviously will 
and
>>DID claim they were "PROOF!"

        There is an explanation for this.  Unfortunately it cannot
be revealed.
        
>>
>>Lord PUBLICLY comments "Starr said they would be found there."  
(Revealing a
>>client confidence and implicating Starr).  These comments were 
reprinted in
>>newspapers, in case the jury pool missed them.

        NO.  That is what McCranie's wife SAID that I said.  What
I really said was, "Call your lawyer right away, this could help
the case."
>>
>>By gathering evidence, which attorneys do *NOT* do, she made herself a
>>witness, which she knew.  She should have removed herself from the 
case
>>immediately, but did not, resulting in a 2 month trial delay (while 
Starr
>>was in jail) and resulting in the defense having inadequate time to 
prepare.
>>
>>Her co-counsel had to be removed because of a cocaine habit.  I do not 
know
>>who selected the cokehead as co-counsel.

        No.  He was set up.  It's be made public soon enough.
>>
>>The evidence gathered by Lord was introduced at trial.  The defense 
could
>>not very well OBJECT to its introduction because that would result in 
Lord
>>being called by the prosecution, to "authenticate" the evidence (prove 
where
>>it came from) so it could be introduced and it would have come in 
anyway,
>>and using Starr's own attorney to do it.

        Case law against that.  It's an appeal issue.
>[snip]
>
>>Last, but not least, I do not know how Starr got the attorney he ended 
up
>>with at trial, but she was black, in Macon, Georgia.  I grew up in 
Georgia
>>and regardless of the progress affirmative action has made or how 
things
>>"ought" to be if all were right with the world, one can expect some 
racial
>>animus in Macon, when the jury is predominantly white. 
>>
>>She had a shaved head and a pony-tail thing and wore star-wars 
clothes,
>>likewise probably not a wise move in Macon, Georgia.

        She wears exquisite designer suits.  
>>
>>Comments I have received from a well-informed patriot attending the 
trial
>>were to the effect that Buafo was not interested in any of the 
technical
>>aspects of the so-called "bomb making" chemical (which is an innocuous
>>chemical, non-explosive, used in hand-held, homemade fireworks, like
>>fizzle-sticks) and did nothing to challenge ATF's claims that the 
chemical
>>was "explosive."  (It's legal to own 10 pounds of this "explosive," 
which is
>>not "explosive," and is used in all sorts of harmless homemade 
fireworks).

        A clue here as to the earlier comment.  It was not an
explosive.   
        Ms. Buafo's choice here was that she did not want to
get into this because it WAS NOT BOB's.  It was planted. 
I had this stuff all ready for her.   But I must admit, she has
a point.   It would seem like an admission that he had something
to do with it when he did not.

>>
>>The initial pleadings I wrote were laid to develop the theme that 
speech is
>>not a crime, nor is possessing an accumulation of legal items, absent 
any
>>intent, a crime, and that the ATF has a history as lying scumbags with 
bad
>>information who cultivate criminal activity, with a secondary theme of 
lack
>>of jurisdiction.
>>
>>I did not hear that any effort was made to develop these themes, i.e., 
to
>>challenge jurisdiction, discredit ATF with voluminous information 
about
>>their long history of lying and setting up crimes, or to show that 
these
>>items were normal, legal household items and that their possession and
>>speech, without more, are not crimes. 

        Ms. Buafo chose to challenge the indictment, to base her
defense around the fact that the crimes charged had not been done.
It failed.   That does not mean she is an agent. 
>>
>>Jury instructions, given to jurors before they leave to deliberate 
guilt or
>>acquittal, are also of crucial importance.  These, too, are prepared 
by the
>>attorney and provided to the judge and argued, if the judge refuses to 
give
>>them.
>>
>[snip]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Nancy Lord, M.D.
Attorney at Law
P.O. Box 7223
Macon, Ga 31209-7223
(912) 788-6272
(912) 785-1809 Fax
defense@macon.mindspring.com


---End of forwarded mail from Nancy Lord 

-- 
=======================================================================
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916-450-7941 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@the-spa.com
=======================================================================


From jkope@graceba.net Tue Nov 26 07:02:12 PST 1996
Article: 346363 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.ums.edu!haven.umd.edu!cs.umd.edu!gun-control
From: "scott" 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!! ATF AT ITS BEST!
Date: 25 Nov 1996 12:52:20 -0500
Organization: LDS I-America
Lines: 158
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Folks,

The following is one page of a very large file available at:
http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum 

This page is very graphic, very disturbing, and very enlightening. I was
left with a feeling of sadness at the way these people were exterminated.
It was not a bunch of armed revolutionary's, it was a gathering of people,
who wanted to worship God in their own way, and were not afraid to stand up
and fight for what they believed in. Besides, since when has it been an
anomaly in the US to be a religious nut? I believe that these were the same
type of people who founded this country. Please visit the site, and you
will see that there are many questions that the FBI and ATF must be held to
answer. I feel, after seeing the faces of those that were murdered, that no
matter what the legal system accomplishes in this case, the people
responsible for this act are not going to get away with anything. There
will be a day when they must answer for what they have done, what they have
allowed to take place, and what they lied about. There were babies in
there, for Christ sake!  If there are any LEO's reading this, its time for
you all to clean your house up! If you dont do it, the people will. All
below was copied directly from the Waco Museum,
The bold headings are mine, the rest is just as you will find it. 

Summary of Preliminary Findings

The dead can speak. Much can be learned from examination of the corpse. For
this purpose the Museum has obtained a set of the autopsy reports and
photographs. They bear remarkable evidence, much of it yet to be analyzed. 

At the center of the public opinion storm around Waco is the fate of the
mothers and children whose remains were found in the pantry/concrete room
that formed the foundation of the four-story residential tower (see US News
& World Report, May 3, 1993, where it is erroneously labeled "Cinder-block
room", Treasury Report, pg. 39, Linda Thompson photo, and US News & World
Report, May 3, 1993). Before the fire of April 19, this room received no
attention. After the fire, it was invariably called the "bunker," the term
that had hitherto been reserved for the tornado shelters. 

It is said that the mothers and children, equipped with gas masks, wet
blankets and sleeping bags, sought shelter there from the CS tear gas;
instead of being sheltered, they died when the structure collapsed on them.


But the evidence shows that this story was invented. Photographs show the
concrete room did not collapse. The evidence suggests that the mothers and
children died elsewhere under different conditions, and the bodies were
brought into the concrete room after death. 




The bodies in this room were variously charred beyond recognition or
slightly charred; some were severely decomposed, some only moderately; some
dismembered and badly mutilated, others were whole. The people are said to
have died variously of smoke inhalation, suffocation, blunt force trauma,
gun shot wounds, or burns. 

Joseph Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe 52) and Crystal Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe
57) are recognizable as human forms. Their Autopsy Reports indicate that
the remains were onFrom news@news1.iamerica.net  Sun Nov 24 11:28:11 1996
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From: "scott" 
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!! ATF AT ITS BEST!
Date: 24 Nov 1996 16:36:00 GMT
Organization: LDS I-America
Lines: 277
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X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155


Folks,

The following is one page of a very large file available at:
http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum 

This page is very graphic, very disturbing, and very enlightening. I was
left with a feeling of sadness at the way these people were exterminated.
It was not a bunch of armed revolutionary's, it was a gathering of people,
who wanted to worship God in their own way, and were not afraid to stand up
and fight for what they believed in. Besides, since when has it been an
anomaly in the US to be a religious nut? I believe that these were the same
type of people who founded this country. Please visit the site, and you
will see that there are many questions that the FBI and ATF must be held to
answer. I feel, after seeing the faces of those that were murdered, that no
matter what the legal system accomplishes in this case, the people
responsible for this act are not going to get away with anything. There
will be a day when they must answer for what they have done, what they have
allowed to take place, and what they lied about. There were babies in
there, for Christ sake!  If there are any LEO's reading this, its time for
you all to clean your house up! If you dont do it, the people will. All
below was copied directly from the Waco Museum,
The bold headings are mine, the rest is just as you will find it. 

Summary of Preliminary Findings

The dead can speak. Much can be learned from examination of the corpse. For
this purpose the Museum has obtained a set of the autopsy reports and
photographs. They bear remarkable evidence, much of it yet to be analyzed. 

At the center of the public opinion storm around Waco is the fate of the
mothers and children whose remains were found in the pantry/concrete room
that formed the foundation of the four-story residential tower (see US News
& World Report, May 3, 1993, where it is erroneously labeled "Cinder-block
room", Treasury Report, pg. 39, Linda Thompson photo, and US News & World
Report, May 3, 1993). Before the fire of April 19, this room received no
attention. After the fire, it was invariably called the "bunker," the term
that had hitherto been reserved for the tornado shelters. 

It is said that the mothers and children, equipped with gas masks, wet
blankets and sleeping bags, sought shelter there from the CS tear gas;
instead of being sheltered, they died when the structure collapsed on them.


But the evidence shows that this story was invented. Photographs show the
concrete room did not collapse. The evidence suggests that the mothers and
children died elsewhere under different conditions, and the bodies were
brought into the concrete room after death. 




The bodies in this room were variously charred beyond recognition or
slightly charred; some were severely decomposed, some only moderately; some
dismembered and badly mutilated, others were whole. The people are said to
have died variously of smoke inhalation, suffocation, blunt force trauma,
gun shot wounds, or burns. 

Joseph Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe 52) and Crystal Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe
57) are recognizable as human forms. Their Autopsy Reports indicate that
the remains were only moderately decomposed, and suffered little charring. 

But the remains of Katherine Andrade (Mt. Carmel Doe 30) and John McBean
(Mt. Carmel Doe 32) were virtually incinerated. This is an unexpected
effect, given that there is little to burn in a concrete room, and given
that the fire lasted only 40 minutes. Some people explain the charring of
the bodies by suggesting that the room was a storehouse for ammunition, and
the ammunition caught fire. The plausibility of this explanation will be
examined in due course. 

Some corpses were so decomposed that the connective tissue between the
bones had disintegrated, causing the bodies to fall apart (the process is
called "disarticulation.") Other corpses were so decomposed that the
internal organs were unrecognizable, had turned to mush, or were liquefied.


From author@mainelink.net Tue Nov 26 07:02:45 PST 1996
Article: 346544 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!tor.istar!east.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.ime.net!not-for-mail
From: author@mainelink.net
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!! ATF AT ITS BEST!
Date: 25 Nov 1996 20:55:48 GMT
Organization: Internet Maine Inc.
Lines: 191
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       My best response to the (below) post is a quotation from a
       victim of Koresh -- someone who knows because she was there:


              "There was never a time when we didn't expect to
              be killed by the feds, whom David said were Babylon.
              While we waited for this to happen, we built up an
              army for David so the battle would be a big one and
              everyone would know the power of David and God.
                  [Kiri Jewell, former resident of the Branch
                   Davidian compound, testifying under oath
                   before the Joint House Subcommittee, 7/19/95.]


      For more little known facts about this case, wee my book which
      will be released 3/1/97, (I'll announce its title/publisher at
      that time.) Example: Koresh indoctrinated followers with the
      belief that people who attended their churches on Sunday were
      worshipping Satan.

      Question: Had ATF ignored the evidence of crimes by Koresh,
      and the Davidians had attacked a church to "get the Devil
      worshippers, what would all the critics be saying then?


                                       Jim




"scott"  wrote:
>
>Folks,
>
>The following is one page of a very large file available at:
>http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum 
>
>This page is very graphic, very disturbing, and very enlightening. I was
>left with a feeling of sadness at the way these people were exterminated.
>It was not a bunch of armed revolutionary's, it was a gathering of people,
>who wanted to worship God in their own way, and were not afraid to stand up
>and fight for what they believed in. Besides, since when has it been an
>anomaly in the US to be a religious nut? I believe that these were the same
>type of people who founded this country. Please visit the site, and you
>will see that there are many questions that the FBI and ATF must be held to
>answer. I feel, after seeing the faces of those that were murdered, that no
>matter what the legal system accomplishes in this case, the people
>responsible for this act are not going to get away with anything. There
>will be a day when they must answer for what they have done, what they have
>allowed to take place, and what they lied about. There were babies in
>there, for Christ sake!  If there are any LEO's reading this, its time for
>you all to clean your house up! If you dont do it, the people will. All
>below was copied directly from the Waco Museum,
>The bold headings are mine, the rest is just as you will find it. 
>
>Summary of Preliminary Findings
>
>The dead can speak. Much can be learned from examination of the corpse. For
>this purpose the Museum has obtained a set of the autopsy reports and
>photographs. They bear remarkable evidence, much of it yet to be analyzed. 
>
>At the center of the public opinion storm around Waco is the fate of the
>mothers and children whose remains were found in the pantry/concrete room
>that formed the foundation of the four-story residential tower (see US News
>& World Report, May 3, 1993, where it is erroneously labeled "Cinder-block
>room", Treasury Report, pg. 39, Linda Thompson photo, and US News & World
>Report, May 3, 1993). Before the fire of April 19, this room received no
>attention. After the fire, it was invariably called the "bunker," the term
>that had hitherto been reserved for the tornado shelters. 
>
>It is said that the mothers and children, equipped with gas masks, wet
>blankets and sleeping bags, sought shelter there from the CS tear gas;
>instead of being sheltered, they died when the structure collapsed on them.
>
>
>But the evidence shows that this story was invented. Photographs show the
>concrete room did not collapse. The evidence suggests that the mothers and
>children died elsewhere under different conditions, and the bodies were
>brought into the concrete room after death. 
>
>
>
>
>The bodies in this room were variously charred beyond recognition or
>slightly charred; some were severely decomposed, some only moderately; some
>dismembered and badly mutilated, others were whole. The people are said to
>have died variously of smoke inhalation, suffocation, blunt force trauma,
>gun shot wounds, or burns. 
>
>Joseph Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe 52) and Crystal Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe
>57) are recognizable as human forms. Their Autopsy Reports indicate that
>the remains were onFrom news@news1.iamerica.net  Sun Nov 24 11:28:11 1996
>Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu 
>	by xring.cs.umd.edu (8.8.3/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
>	id LAA19280; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 11:28:10 -0500 (EST)
>Received: from relay2.UU.NET 
>	by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.3/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
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>Received: from news1.iamerica.net. by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP 
>	(peer crosschecked as: news1.iamerica.net [205.173.251.8])
>	id QQbrft17349; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 11:27:31 -0500 (EST)
>Received: by news1.iamerica.net. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4)
>	id KAA05493; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:36:00 -0600
>To: rec-guns@uunet.uu.net
>Path: news
>From: "scott" 
>Newsgroups: rec.guns
>Subject: YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK!! ATF AT ITS BEST!
>Date: 24 Nov 1996 16:36:00 GMT
>Organization: LDS I-America
>Lines: 277
>Message-ID: <01bbda1d$51f8fec0$0100007f@default>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.22.226.12
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155
>
>
>Folks,
>
>The following is one page of a very large file available at:
>http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum 
>
>This page is very graphic, very disturbing, and very enlightening. I was
>left with a feeling of sadness at the way these people were exterminated.
>It was not a bunch of armed revolutionary's, it was a gathering of people,
>who wanted to worship God in their own way, and were not afraid to stand up
>and fight for what they believed in. Besides, since when has it been an
>anomaly in the US to be a religious nut? I believe that these were the same
>type of people who founded this country. Please visit the site, and you
>will see that there are many questions that the FBI and ATF must be held to
>answer. I feel, after seeing the faces of those that were murdered, that no
>matter what the legal system accomplishes in this case, the people
>responsible for this act are not going to get away with anything. There
>will be a day when they must answer for what they have done, what they have
>allowed to take place, and what they lied about. There were babies in
>there, for Christ sake!  If there are any LEO's reading this, its time for
>you all to clean your house up! If you dont do it, the people will. All
>below was copied directly from the Waco Museum,
>The bold headings are mine, the rest is just as you will find it. 
>
>Summary of Preliminary Findings
>
>The dead can speak. Much can be learned from examination of the corpse. For
>this purpose the Museum has obtained a set of the autopsy reports and
>photographs. They bear remarkable evidence, much of it yet to be analyzed. 
>
>At the center of the public opinion storm around Waco is the fate of the
>mothers and children whose remains were found in the pantry/concrete room
>that formed the foundation of the four-story residential tower (see US News
>& World Report, May 3, 1993, where it is erroneously labeled "Cinder-block
>room", Treasury Report, pg. 39, Linda Thompson photo, and US News & World
>Report, May 3, 1993). Before the fire of April 19, this room received no
>attention. After the fire, it was invariably called the "bunker," the term
>that had hitherto been reserved for the tornado shelters. 
>
>It is said that the mothers and children, equipped with gas masks, wet
>blankets and sleeping bags, sought shelter there from the CS tear gas;
>instead of being sheltered, they died when the structure collapsed on them.
>
>
>But the evidence shows that this story was invented. Photographs show the
>concrete room did not collapse. The evidence suggests that the mothers and
>children died elsewhere under different conditions, and the bodies were
>brought into the concrete room after death. 
>
>
>
>
>The bodies in this room were variously charred beyond recognition or
>slightly charred; some were severely decomposed, some only moderately; some
>dismembered and badly mutilated, others were whole. The people are said to
>have died variously of smoke inhalation, suffocation, blunt force trauma,
>gun shot wounds, or burns. 
>
>Joseph Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe 52) and Crystal Martinez (Mt. Carmel Doe
>57) are recognizable as human forms. Their Autopsy Reports indicate that
>the remains were only moderately decomposed, and suffered little charring. 
>
>But the remains of Katherine Andrade (Mt. Carmel Doe 30) and John McBean
>(Mt. Carmel Doe 32) were virtually incinerated. This is an unexpected
>effect, given that there is little to burn in a concrete room, and given
>that the fire lasted only 40 minutes. Some people explain the charring of
>the bodies by suggesting that the room was a storehouse for ammunition, and
>the ammunition caught fire. The plausibility of this explanation will be
>examined in due course. 
>
>Some corpses were so decomposed that the connective tissue between the
>bones had disintegrated, causing the bodies to fall apart (the process is
>called "disarticulation.") Other corpses were so decomposed that the
>internal organs were unrecognizable, had turned to mush, or were liquefied.




From danielk@erols.com Tue Nov 26 07:07:04 PST 1996
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 15:33:12 GMT
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Subject: Re: Spook Alert: Ok City was Divine Justice, plain and simple
Lines: 172


Bill K. wrote:
> 
> After repeated alien abductions  Daniel Kuehne  opined:

> >issue up until that point in the controlled press) was once again splashed all over the
> >newsprint and airwaves. Once again, the dumb and gullible American sheeple were FORCED
> >to think about all of the "conspiracy theories" surrounding Waco and the patriot's
> >allegations of a truly vast government cover-up. Once again, they were FORCED to choose
> >sides between the forces of liberty and those of Babylon. Once again, the Communists in
> 
> Yeah, and thanks to that little f*ckup, guess which side they picked?
> *sshole.

I'm sorry to see that you have resorted to name-calling here, Bill. I thought you were 
at least SOMEWHAT more sophisticated than that. As you know, I hate name-calling and 
labeling, and refrain from this practice in my posts, except occasionally when dealing 
with our professional-militia-dissipator friends Sheps and Pitcabbage. If anything, 
let's throw good arguments at each other, NOT hollow rhetoric and personal insults. As 
you know (or should), when one resorts to personal attacks, it merely proves that one 
has lost the debate :(       
 
> >Washington were FORCED to show their true stripes. Once again, they were FORCED to hold
> >hearings. Once again, they proved themselves to be the bumbling inept fools and traitors
> >that they are.
> 
> Yes indeed.  thanks McVeigh, for the Terroism Bill, DCA, murmerings of
> Brady 2, and another 4 years of Jethro.
> Jeez, with friends like you...

Well, let's see... first off, Bill, the "Anti-Terrorism" Bill (no pun intended) had 
already been on the drawing board for about a year or so when OK City occurred. 
Secondly, thanks to McVeigh (if he indeed did it) we also got Ruby Ridge and Waco 
hearings. I don't think that they would have occurred any other way. You see, the OK 
City bombing "hooked" the controlled media. The militia also got much publicity (along 
with Ruby Ridge and Waco), and even though it was extremely negative to say the least, 
everybody now knows where to turn when the government abuses them. Remember all of the 
publicity the "jack-booted thugs" fund-raising letter received? Remember the survey 
indicating that 70% of people fear the government. In addition, more restrictive 
legislation will only scare some of the sleeping sheeple and enhance militia 
recruitment. I remember that at the height of the anti-militia media propaganda effort 
after the bombing, there was a rush on for militia-related materials. Linda Thompson, 
the Montana Militia, etc, set new records for orders and information requests. 

> >The eyes of the entire world were watching their pityful chirade which was SUPPOSED to
> >pass for justice. Indeed, the entire Waco/OK City thing is very much worldwide in
> >nature, partly because of the large scope of these incidents, but also partly because
> >many of the Branch Davidians were and are members of foreign countries. OK City was thus
> >a valuable lesson to tyrants the world over: Freedom-loving peoples will not take your
> >tyranical bullshit much longer you bunch of fascist New World Order assholes!!!
> 
> Which planet in the Proxima Centauri system did you come from?

Another personal attack, Bill? Shame on you.
 
> The lesson observers seemed to have learned was "Oh Beneficient Government,
> who art our Mother, protect us from the Gunloving, Right-wing extremists
> who have Killed Babies.  We offer these Freedoms and RIghts at thine alter,
> and yeah, even these Freedoms and Rights which belong to Others."

The non-thinking, brainless sheeple who believe that crock-of-bullshit (and I don't 
doubt for a minute that there are indeed many millions of these brainwashed morons), are 
the types who NEVER would join the militia movement anyway. These people don't have guns 
and/or are not willing to use them, and hence, they are not even in the equation. I 
really don't give a damn what these morons think of the militia. To HELL with public 
opinion. They weren't on our side before the bombing, they aren't on our side now, and 
they NEVER will, in fact, be on our side. They are as dead wood. They are useless 
eaters. It is as if they don't even exist. Forget about them. Don't even ATTEMPT to 
awaken them. Let them sleep in peace :)
  
> >In addition, it may not seem like it now, but I truly believe that history will prove
> >that all of the publicity for the militia movement, despite being overwhelmingly
> >negative,  was actually beneficial. Remember what Henry Ford once said: "ALL publicity
> >is GOOD publicity." You see, now that everyone knows about the militia movement,
> >everybody knows where to turn if the government abuses them. Disaffected sheeple
> >represent a VAST under-tapped potential for future militia recruitment efforts!!!
> 
> Have you ever heard the phrase "You only get to make one first impression"?

Actually, Bill, you have it all wrong here, I'm afraid. You see, since everyone knows 
about the militia now, it's far easier to strike up a conversation regarding such with 
one of our wool-laden friends :) Besides, the militia is NEVER going to get all that 
popular, and this has absolutely NOTHING to do with OK City. Recall the Mark Twain quote 
(emphasis added): "In the beginning of change, the patriot is a SCARCE man; brave, HATED 
and SCORNED..."   
 
> Do you know how much damage the *false* linkage at the hands of the media
> between the militia and OKC caused to the cause of truth?
> Obviously not.

The people who blindly believe the Rather blather on the boob tube are the same ones who 
believe ANYTHING they read or hear (including the National Enquirer). These types will 
NEVER wake up. Let them sleep. Indeed, the sign on their collective intellectual door 
reads: "I faithfully worship at the alter of the electronic God every night, and blindly 
believe all of its false wisdoms... do not disturb me from my deep intellectual 
slumber." You see, Bill, the TV (as well as the lights) are on, but that still doesn't 
mean that anybody is home :) 
 
> I think you had better shut up now, before I call you names, and notifiy
> you about portions of your personality you will not want to know about.

Lighten up a little, Bill, this isn't the Morton Downey Junior show. Please don't blow 
smoke in my face... I'm a non-smoker :)
 
> 
> 
> Well Daniel, welcome to the land of Infamy.  

Oh, do you mean the land in which Linda Thompson perpetually resides for calling for an 
armed march on Washinton. If so, I'll only be too happy to oblige and move there at once 
:) 

> You have entered the state of
> No Respect.  

Bill, as you well know, truth is always hated, mocked, and scorned. As Winston Churchill 
once said: "Everybody stumbles across the truth once in their lives. Most get up, dust 
themselves off, and keep on walking." How fitting!    

> You guide will be Dave Cinege.  

I'm relatively new here, so I don't get this little personal insult of yours. Nice try, 
but sorry, Bill :(
  
> We hope you enjoy you trip
> through DelusionallyDangerousLand.

You mean "Absolutely committed to one's beliefs, regardless of the scorn, hate, dismay, 
harships, etc, that an uncompromising stand for truth will involve, Land"? Surely, this 
is the place I want to live in :) 
 
> Please proceed directly to Chapmania.  

Again, since I'm relatively new here, I don't get it... sorry, Bill :(  But, let me just 
say that you seem to be attacking me at least partly because I agreed with something 
Mike Chapmen (an individual who you obviously don't like) said. Indeed, are you stooping 
to petty "guilt by association" here, Bill?   

> Do not represent youself as militia,

See the last quote in my sigfile for my answer to this one, Bill.

> do not attempt to collect $200.  

I'm not in this for money, are you?

> And stay the hell away from me, psycho-Fed.

On this, I'll only be too happy to comply. Just don't label me or call me any more names 
and I'm almost certain that we can co-exist relatively peacefully. I'm sorry for 
offending you by my refusal to toe the official militia Party Line on this issue. I 
suppose that one day I must force myself to become more mainstream... like you, Bill :)
-- 
*****************************************************************
"There is now probable cause to consider our president and first
lady as felons, who are likely to be indicted after the November 5
election." (Jerome Zeifman; chief counsel, House Watergate panel)

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone
who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it
but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are
ruined... The great object is that every man be armed... everyone
who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry)

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves?... Congress have no
power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible
implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American... 
The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either
the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will
remain, in the hands of the people." 
(Tench Coxe; "An American Citizen")
*****************************************************************


From xtr10996701@xtra.co.nz Tue Nov 26 07:07:50 PST 1996
Article: 46970 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (2aae87f981c189ada9fe80c300ec37bc)
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From: xtr10996701@xtra.co.nz (Bill K.)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 4:03:39 GMT
Message-ID: <848635419$11062@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Spook Alert: Ok City was Divine Justice, plain and simple
Lines: 322


After repeated alien abductions  Daniel Kuehne  opined:

>
>Bill K. wrote:
>> 
>> After repeated alien abductions  Daniel Kuehne  opined:
>
>> >issue up until that point in the controlled press) was once again splashed all over the
>> >newsprint and airwaves. Once again, the dumb and gullible American sheeple were FORCED
>> >to think about all of the "conspiracy theories" surrounding Waco and the patriot's
>> >allegations of a truly vast government cover-up. Once again, they were FORCED to choose
>> >sides between the forces of liberty and those of Babylon. Once again, the Communists in
>> 
>> Yeah, and thanks to that little f*ckup, guess which side they picked?
>> *sshole.
>
>I'm sorry to see that you have resorted to name-calling here, Bill. I thought you were 

I reserve invective for authors of really, truely, dangerously stupid
statements.  You entered that club with your post.  For my part, I was
stunned.  I thought much more of you than that.  Perhaps you can redeem
yourself by retracting this hysterical rant, perhaps not.  It would be a
good place to start.

>at least SOMEWHAT more sophisticated than that. As you know, I hate name-calling and 
>labeling, and refrain from this practice in my posts, except occasionally when dealing 
>with our professional-militia-dissipator friends Sheps and Pitcabbage. If anything, 

For what its worth, I don't ever feel the need to call either of them
names.  They are cogent and reasonable, though misdirected and esoteric.  
I save profanity for people who exhibit a level of maturity and stability
which leads me to believe they are unlikely to understand any higher form
of criticision.  

You fit that criteria (for that post at least), so you got called a name
for exactly the reasons I enumerated.

>let's throw good arguments at each other, NOT hollow rhetoric and personal insults. As 
>you know (or should), when one resorts to personal attacks, it merely proves that one 
>has lost the debate :(       

No, making truely stupid statements in favour of colateral damage and
innocent civilian casualties cause one to be declared the loser in an
arugment.

> 
>> >Washington were FORCED to show their true stripes. Once again, they were FORCED to hold
>> >hearings. Once again, they proved themselves to be the bumbling inept fools and traitors
>> >that they are.
>> 
>> Yes indeed.  thanks McVeigh, for the Terroism Bill, DCA, murmerings of
>> Brady 2, and another 4 years of Jethro.
>> Jeez, with friends like you...
>
>Well, let's see... first off, Bill, the "Anti-Terrorism" Bill (no pun intended) had 
>already been on the drawing board for about a year or so when OK City occurred. 

And it was doomed to failure until OKC.  Remember all the talk of Clinton's
Riechstag Fire?   Cripes, wake up.

>Secondly, thanks to McVeigh (if he indeed did it) we also got Ruby Ridge and Waco 
>hearings. 

You definitely need to revisit history.  Lots and lots of people were
joining and forming militia units before OKC, and they were *all* calling
for Waco/Ruby Ridge hearings.  At that point, we actually had an uneasy
peace with the media, sort of as a curiosity, and the agenda was getting
air time.  After OKC, we were all terrorists.  Those hearings were a sham.

>I don't think that they would have occurred any other way. You see, the OK 
>City bombing "hooked" the controlled media. The militia also got much publicity (along 
>with Ruby Ridge and Waco), and even though it was extremely negative to say the least, 
>everybody now knows where to turn when the government abuses them. Remember all of the 

Yeah, they turn to:
1) the ACLU
2) more government

Well done, oh supporters of terrorism.

>publicity the "jack-booted thugs" fund-raising letter received? Remember the survey 
>indicating that 70% of people fear the government. In addition, more restrictive 
>legislation will only scare some of the sleeping sheeple and enhance militia 


>recruitment. I remember that at the height of the anti-militia media propaganda effort 
>after the bombing, there was a rush on for militia-related materials. Linda Thompson, 
>the Montana Militia, etc, set new records for orders and information requests. 

You are now off-subject for this thread.
However...

All that was flushed down the gurgler when moronic statements like yours
were spouted by camo-clothed "Generals"  in front of TV cameras.
Please, don't volunteer for PR work.

>
>> >The eyes of the entire world were watching their pityful chirade which was SUPPOSED to
>> >pass for justice. Indeed, the entire Waco/OK City thing is very much worldwide in
>> >nature, partly because of the large scope of these incidents, but also partly because
>> >many of the Branch Davidians were and are members of foreign countries. OK City was thus
>> >a valuable lesson to tyrants the world over: Freedom-loving peoples will not take your
>> >tyranical bullshit much longer you bunch of fascist New World Order assholes!!!
>> 
>> Which planet in the Proxima Centauri system did you come from?
>
>Another personal attack, Bill? Shame on you.

Another stupid statement Daniel, I am embarassed for you.  I happend to
have been in Europe when the aftermath of OKC hit.  Would like to continue
to believe it had a positive influence on the militia image, or would you
like me to tell you the truth?
Don't assert from a position of ignorance.

> 
>> The lesson observers seemed to have learned was "Oh Beneficient Government,
>> who art our Mother, protect us from the Gunloving, Right-wing extremists
>> who have Killed Babies.  We offer these Freedoms and RIghts at thine alter,
>> and yeah, even these Freedoms and Rights which belong to Others."
>
>The non-thinking, brainless sheeple who believe that crock-of-bullshit (and I don't 
>doubt for a minute that there are indeed many millions of these brainwashed morons), are 

Well go over the Presidential election figures and say that again, this
time with a straight face.

>the types who NEVER would join the militia movement anyway. These people don't have guns 
>and/or are not willing to use them, and hence, they are not even in the equation. I 

You are ignorant of the biggest, most important near-term objective of the
militia - public support.  Ever heard the phrase "hearts and minds"?  
We aren't looking for membership drives aimed at more guys with guns (they
come naturally as the word gets out).  We are looking for Kmart shoppers to
smile and feel warm inside when they hear "militia".

Take this to email with me if you want.

Suffice it to say, the sheeple need to be better informed, and thats what
the OKC thing screwed for us big time.  Many don't want their impressions
changed.

>really don't give a damn what these morons think of the militia. To HELL with public 
>opinion. They weren't on our side before the bombing, they aren't on our side now, and 
>they NEVER will, in fact, be on our side. They are as dead wood. They are useless 
>eaters. It is as if they don't even exist. Forget about them. Don't even ATTEMPT to 
>awaken them. Let them sleep in peace :)

I'll let you follow that course.  I'd suggest it acutally, given your
penchant for brash, dangerous, and non-representational statements in
regards to how the militia stands on certain issues.

As for the rest of us, we have teachin' and preachin' to do.

>  
>> >In addition, it may not seem like it now, but I truly believe that history will prove
>> >that all of the publicity for the militia movement, despite being overwhelmingly
>> >negative,  was actually beneficial. Remember what Henry Ford once said: "ALL publicity
>> >is GOOD publicity." You see, now that everyone knows about the militia movement,
>> >everybody knows where to turn if the government abuses them. Disaffected sheeple
>> >represent a VAST under-tapped potential for future militia recruitment efforts!!!
>> 
>> Have you ever heard the phrase "You only get to make one first impression"?
>
>Actually, Bill, you have it all wrong here, I'm afraid. You see, since everyone knows 
>about the militia now, it's far easier to strike up a conversation regarding such with 
>one of our wool-laden friends :) Besides, the militia is NEVER going to get all that 
>popular, and this has absolutely NOTHING to do with OK City. Recall the Mark Twain quote 
>(emphasis added): "In the beginning of change, the patriot is a SCARCE man; brave, HATED 
>and SCORNED..."   

The militia *will* be popular, because it will stand in the breach when no
one else will.  Until that point, the militia needs to be un-demonized in
the eyes of the ordinary citizenry.  Its not just guns, you know.  Its
grandmas who bake biscuits, and warehouse managers with a little extra
storage space, and...well, you either get the picture or you don't.

> 
>> Do you know how much damage the *false* linkage at the hands of the media
>> between the militia and OKC caused to the cause of truth?
>> Obviously not.
>
>The people who blindly believe the Rather blather on the boob tube are the same ones who 
>believe ANYTHING they read or hear (including the National Enquirer). These types will 

Then it is up to us to supply the alternative: Truth.
Do you always just roll your eyes when you hear a lie, or do you confront
it?

>NEVER wake up. Let them sleep. Indeed, the sign on their collective intellectual door 
>reads: "I faithfully worship at the alter of the electronic God every night, and blindly 
>believe all of its false wisdoms... do not disturb me from my deep intellectual 
>slumber." You see, Bill, the TV (as well as the lights) are on, but that still doesn't 
>mean that anybody is home :) 

So you support blowing up the refridgerator to get their attention?
Good plan.  Leave your resume on the desk, we'll call you.

> 
>> I think you had better shut up now, before I call you names, and notifiy
>> you about portions of your personality you will not want to know about.
>
>Lighten up a little, Bill, this isn't the Morton Downey Junior show. Please don't blow 
>smoke in my face... I'm a non-smoker :)
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Well Daniel, welcome to the land of Infamy.  
>
>Oh, do you mean the land in which Linda Thompson perpetually resides for calling for an 
>armed march on Washinton. If so, I'll only be too happy to oblige and move there at once 
>:) 
>
>> You have entered the state of
>> No Respect.  
>
>Bill, as you well know, truth is always hated, mocked, and scorned. As Winston Churchill 

So is idiocy.  

Make sure you know that, if people are shunning your statements, it is not
necessarily because they are wrong and can't stand the blinding light of
your truth.  You might simply said something really stupid.

>once said: "Everybody stumbles across the truth once in their lives. Most get up, dust 
>themselves off, and keep on walking." How fitting!    
>
>> You guide will be Dave Cinege.  
>
>I'm relatively new here, so I don't get this little personal insult of yours. Nice try, 
>but sorry, Bill :(

Dave makes Mike Chapman look reserved, introspective, and calm.  They share
your position on OKC.  Dave has a web page dedicated to glorifying it.

>  
>> We hope you enjoy you trip
>> through DelusionallyDangerousLand.
>
>You mean "Absolutely committed to one's beliefs, regardless of the scorn, hate, dismay, 
>harships, etc, that an uncompromising stand for truth will involve, Land"? Surely, this 
>is the place I want to live in :) 

Well, if you stand by your support of OKC, I'm afraid you didn't read the
road signs before you took the exit from US Rational 1.

> 
>> Please proceed directly to Chapmania.  
>
>Again, since I'm relatively new here, I don't get it... sorry, Bill :(  But, let me just 
>say that you seem to be attacking me at least partly because I agreed with something 
>Mike Chapmen (an individual who you obviously don't like) said. Indeed, are you stooping 
>to petty "guilt by association" here, Bill?   

Actually, I happen to *like* Chapman.  He holds the most extreme beliefs
I've ever come across, and presents them well (most of the time).  They
are, however, suicidal and counterproductive, so I reject them, and I
deride him when he says something really stupid as well.

>
>> Do not represent youself as militia,
>
>See the last quote in my sigfile for my answer to this one, Bill.


Those who advocate patently irrational perspectives are not considered
mentally fit for inclusion in the militia.

Currently, you are a rogue paramilitary advocate of terrorism.

>
>> do not attempt to collect $200.  
>
>I'm not in this for money, are you?

Neither the cheap intellectual thrill of rebellion against authority and
the hollow endorsement of a reactionary view with no goal, right?

>
>> And stay the hell away from me, psycho-Fed.
>
>On this, I'll only be too happy to comply. Just don't label me or call me any more names 

Based on your endorsement of OKC, I correctly identified you as either a
procateur or a nut case.  I will be only too happy to retract my id of you
when it is no longer true.


>and I'm almost certain that we can co-exist relatively peacefully. I'm sorry for 

I question whether someone who likes seeing civilians die will make a good
neighbor.

>offending you by my refusal to toe the official militia Party Line on this issue. I 

Its the Official Decent Human Being Party line, Daniel.  Its a nice party,
you should consider joining.

>suppose that one day I must force myself to become more mainstream... like you, Bill :)

Only if you are bright enough.  We have several around here who you would
fit in with, but believe me, that is no compliment.


Don't forget, Waco was an example of %100 civilian casualties at the hand
of the US Pseudo-Military.  Do you *really* want to be on *that* side?


=======================================================================
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic:  Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, 
			and the sheep are armed.
Federal Government: The means by which the sheep will be fooled 
			into voting for a Democracy...
Democrats and Republicans: sheep who think they are wolves.
--me

Usenet is so big, and I'm so small. 
email me if I should actually read your words.
=======================================================================



From jameswv@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 07:08:13 PST 1996
Article: 47140 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (491421f4a2fb8b4d1fa6ccfbaa7f1e44)
References: <848782984$2708@atype.com> <848802809$3499@atype.com>
From: jameswv@ix.netcom.com (james vallaster)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 3:18:03 GMT
Message-ID: <848805483$3903@atype.com>
Subject: Re: THE CLINTON BODY-COUNT
Lines: 34


In <848802809$3499@atype.com> shpc@ionet.net (Sam Hammons, P.C.)
writes: 
>
>
>
>> Steve Willis          - Clinton bodyguard 
>> Robert Williams       - Clinton bodyguard 
>> Conway LeBleu         - Clinton bodyguard 
>> Todd McKeehan         - Clinton bodyguard 
>>  
>> died: 2/28/93         - "executed" by gunfire in the Waco, Texas 
>>                         assault on the Branch Davidians. 
>>                       - All four were examined by a "private doctor"

>>                         and died from nearly identical wounds to the

>>                         left temple, so-called execution style. 
>>                         According to Linda Thompson, videotapes and 
>>                         other evidence indicates that none died from

>>                         guns fired by Branch Davidians. 
>>  
>>             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
>
>The only truth in this statement is that the four men listed are dead,

>they died on the date listed.  If you want, I can get specific 
>information on their wounds.  None of these men were ever bodyguards 
>for Clinton (or anyone else that I know of.)
>			--Son of ATF
>
Is Son of ATF any more of an authority than Son of BS?     
......Homesteadr


From shpc@ionet.net Tue Nov 26 07:08:24 PST 1996
Article: 47207 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (c3612a1797cc6ae644ac8bfa6a417f28)
References: <848782984$2708@atype.com>
From: shpc@ionet.net (Sam Hammons, P.C.)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 2:33:29 GMT
Message-ID: <848802809$3499@atype.com>
Subject: Re: THE CLINTON BODY-COUNT
Lines: 24



> Steve Willis          - Clinton bodyguard 
> Robert Williams       - Clinton bodyguard 
> Conway LeBleu         - Clinton bodyguard 
> Todd McKeehan         - Clinton bodyguard 
>  
> died: 2/28/93         - "executed" by gunfire in the Waco, Texas 
>                         assault on the Branch Davidians. 
>                       - All four were examined by a "private doctor" 
>                         and died from nearly identical wounds to the 
>                         left temple, so-called execution style. 
>                         According to Linda Thompson, videotapes and 
>                         other evidence indicates that none died from 
>                         guns fired by Branch Davidians. 
>  
>             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 

The only truth in this statement is that the four men listed are dead, 
they died on the date listed.  If you want, I can get specific 
information on their wounds.  None of these men were ever bodyguards 
for Clinton (or anyone else that I know of.)
			--Son of ATF



From a0003517@airmail.net Tue Nov 26 07:08:26 PST 1996
Article: 47213 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (1aba07686eb42e705d9251f87df9e392)
From: a0003517@airmail.net ("Homesteadr" James Vallaster)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 96 21:03:04 GMT
Message-ID: <848782984$2708@atype.com>
Subject: THE CLINTON BODY-COUNT
Lines: 418


=================================================================

  
 THE CLINTON BODY-COUNT 
  
      The following is a partial list of a large number of persons who 
 have recently met their demise in suspicious circumstances who appear 
 to have some connection to the Clintons.  The information was 
 compiled from several sources, and some of it is more complete and 
 detailed than other parts, and there may be some innacuracies.  But it is 
 the length and breadth of the list that is the most disconcerting.  It 
 beyond credibility that every single one of these cases is mere
coincidence.

 Check out the  AVI Movie of Clinton
  faking
 a tear!   Download AVI Player Here
 .
  
 The Bubba Screen Saver


 Wav file of Bill stating " I didn't 
 inhale
 " . . . yeah right!
   Screen saver and .wav file courtesy of Scott Smith of Pittsburgh  
 ================================================================= 

 Bill Shelton          - Arkansas state trooper and fiancee of Kathy
                         Ferguson

 died: 6/94            - allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself
                         at the gravesite of his fiancee
                       - Officer Shelton was the fiancee of Kathy Ferguson,
                         who was the ex-wife of Trooper Danny Ferguson.  
                         Kathy Ferguson also committed "suicide" last month
                         when she shot herself in her living room.  Oddly,
                         next to the body were her packed bags, as if she
                         was expecting to be going somewhere.  Danny
Ferguson
                         is a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in Paula
                         Corbin Jones's sexual harassment suit.  His
ex-wife
                         was reported as a corroborating witness for 
                         Ms. Jones.
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 C. Victor Raiser II   - National Finance Co-Chairman, Clinton 
                         for President Campaign 
 Montgomery Raiser     - Son of Victor Raiser II 
  
 died: 7/30/92         - Both men died in a private plane crash 
                         in Alaska, en route to a fishing expedition. 
                         No cause was ever determined.  Five others 
                         not connected to Clinton died with them. 
                       - DeeDee Meyers described Raiser as a "major 
                         player" in the Clinton organization.  Victor 
                         raiser was also chairman of Mobile Telecomm 
                         Technologies Corp., whose subsidiary, SkyTel 
                         Corp. is an international paging company used 
                         by federal police agencies such as the FBI. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Paul Tully            - Democratic National Committee 
                         Political Director 
  
 died: 9/24/92         - Found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock 
                         Arkansas of "unknown causes." 
                       - Described by Clinton as a "dear friend and 
                         trusted advisor.  Tully authored several key 
                         strategies for Clinton and the party. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Paula Grober          - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf 
  
 died: 12/9/92         - Died in a one-car accident with no known 
                         witnesses. 
                       - Traveled extensively with Clinton from 1978 
                         until her death. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Jim Wilhite           - Vice Chairman, Arkla, Inc. 
  
 died: 12/21/92        - Died in a one-person skiing accident. 
                       - Wilhite had extensive ties with Clinton and 
                         Mack McLarty, with whom he visited by 
                         telephone just hours before his death. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Maj. Gen. William Robertson  - Deputy Commanding General, 
                                V Corps, Europe 
 Col William Densberger       - V Corps Chief of Operations and Plans 
 Col. Robert Kelly            - V Corps Chief of Intelligence 
 Spec. Gary Rhodes            - Crew Chief 
  
 died: 2/23/93         - All were killed when their helicopter crashed 
                         in Weisbaden, Germany.  No cause was ever 
                         determined. 
                       - V Corps figured prominently in the US 
                         Bosnia-Serbia peacekeeping operations, along 
                         with the carrier Roosevelt.  These men, and 
                         8 others associated with Clinton's visit to 
                         the Roosevelt all died within 4 months of 
                         each other. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Steve Willis          - Clinton bodyguard 
 Robert Williams       - Clinton bodyguard 
 Conway LeBleu         - Clinton bodyguard 
 Todd McKeehan         - Clinton bodyguard 
  
 died: 2/28/93         - "executed" by gunfire in the Waco, Texas 
                         assault on the Branch Davidians. 
                       - All four were examined by a "private doctor" 
                         and died from nearly identical wounds to the 
                         left temple, so-called execution style. 
                         According to Linda Thompson, videotapes and 
                         other evidence indicates that none died from 
                         guns fired by Branch Davidians. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Five Navy aviators    - Clinton bodyguards/escorts 
 (names not determined) 
 died: 3/26/93         - all died in a crash of an E-2C Hawkeye 
                         in Italy.  The crash occurred shortly after 
                         the plane was "waved off" from a landing 
                         attempt on the Carrier Roosevelt, due to 
                         a "foul deck". 
                       - All five men had been Clinton's escorts 
                         during Clinton's visit to the Roosevelt 
                         2 weeks prior. 
                         Three other men, who had flown Clinton to the 
                         Roosevelt for that visit also died later in 
                         a helicopter crash. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Staff Sgt. Brian Haney       - Clinton bodyguard 
 Marine Sgt. Tim Sabel        - Clinton bodyguard 
 Maj. William Barkley         - Clinton bodyguard 
 Capt. Scott Reynolds         - Clinton bodyguard 
  
 died: 5/19/93         - All four men died when their helicopter 
                         crashed in the woods near Quantico, Va. 
                       - Reporters were barred from the site, and the 
                         head of the fire department responding to the 
                         crash described it by saying, "Security was 
                         tight," with "lots of Marines with guns."  A 
                         videotape made by a firefighter was seized by 
                         the Marines.  All four men had escorted 
                         Clinton on his flight to the carrier 
                         Roosevelt shortly before their deaths. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Paul Wilcher          - Washington attorney investigating 
                         government corruption 
  
 died: 6/22/93         - Found dead on a toilet in his Washington 
                         apartment.  No cause of death was ever 
                         determined. 
                       - At the time of his death, he was 
                         investigating connections between the 
                         "October surprise" during the 1980 federal 
                         election campaign and drug and 
                         gun-running out of Mena, Arkansas, as 
                         well as the BATF assault on the Waco, Texas 
                         Branch Davidians.  Was planning on producing 
                         a television documentary on his findings.  He 
                         had delivered a 99-page affidavit to Janet 
                         Reno three weeks before his death. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Vincent Foster        - White House Counsel 
  
 died: 7/21/93         - Found dead in Ft. Marcy Park in Washington, 
                         DC, of a supposed suicide by gunshot.  A 
                         suicide note was supposedly found a fews days 
                         later, torn into several pieces, in his 
                         briefcase, after his office had been entered 
                         by WhiteHouse staff and materials removed. 
                         The gun which he supposedly used to kill 
                         himself was reported to be still in his hand, 
                         but the person who first found the body 
                         reports that there was no gun at that time. 
                         Many irregularities surround the death and 
                         the investigation of it. 
                       - Foster was also from Hope, Ark., like 
                         Clinton, and also worked for the Rose Law 
                         firm.  Foster had intimate knowledge of the 
                         Clintons' personal finances.  Foster was 
                         involved in an investigation 
                         of their finances, and reportedly 
                         made a phone call to Hillary Clinton, in 
                         Little Rock, just hours before his death. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Stanley Heard         - Chairman, National Chiropractic 
                         Health Care Advisory Committee 
 Steve Dickson         - Counsel to Mr. Heard 
  
 died: 9/10/93         - Both died in a plane crash outside Dulles 
                         airport, after their aircraft, rented after 
                         Heard's personal craft developed troubles, 
                         crashed while attempting an emergency landing 
                         after reporting a fire on board. 
                       - Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's 
                         advisory council, also personally treated 
                         Clinton's mother, stepfather, and brother. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Luther Parks          - Head of Clinton's Guberntorial 
                         security team in Little Rock. 
  
 died: 9/26/93         - Gunned down in his car at a deserted 
                         intersection outside Little Rock. 
                       - His family reported that shortly before his 
                         death, they were being followed by unknown 
                         persons, and their home had been broken 
                         into.  Parks had been compiling a dossier 
                         on Clinton's illicit activities.  The dossier 
                         was stolen. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Ed Willey             - Real Estate Attorney, Clinton Fund Raisor 
  
 died: 11/30/93        - Died of gunshot to the head.  Body found in 
                         deep woods in Virginia.  Ruled a suicide, no 
                         note was found, nor was any motive 
                         identified. 
                       - Intimately involved in several Clinton fund 
                         raising events. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
  
      The following items are a bit less complete than the previous 
 items, but still noteworthy. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 Hershell Friday       - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser. 
  
 died: ???             - Killed when his plane exploded. 
                         Cause unknown. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 James Bunch           - Influential Texan 
  
 died: ???             - Died from a gunshot suicide, similar to 
                         Vince Foster. 
                       - Was discovered to have a "little black book" 
                         containing the names of many influential 
                         persons in Texas and Arkansas who visited 
                         certain prostitutes.  Connection to Clinton 
                         not proven. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 John Wilson           - Former Washington DC Council member 
  
 died: 5/18/93         - Found dead from an apparent hanging suicide 
                       - Suicide appears suspicious due to an 
                         unusual number of reports made to the 
                         media concerning his "depression". 
                         Was reported, but not proven, to have ties 
                         to the Whitewater affair. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 the ex- Mrs. Danny Ferguson  - Ex-wife of Trooper Danny Ferguson 
  
 died: circa 5/94      - Died of a supposed gunshot suicide in 
                         her living room.  There was a suicide note 
                         found by the body.  However, friends were 
                         surprise at having noticed nothing wrong 
                         previously.  And even more curious, found 
                         nearby were several packed suitcases, as if 
                         she expected she was going somewhere. 
                       - She was the former wife (since changed her 
                         name) of Trooper Danny Ferguson, who is the 
                         Arkansas State Trooper alleged to have 
                         escorted Paula Corbin Jones to the hotel 
                         room for her alleged episode of sexual 
                         harrassment by then-Governor Clinton. 
                         Ferguson's wife was reported as a possible 
                         corroborating witness for Ms. Jones. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
  
 attorney for 
 Mr. Lassater          - Attorney representing Mr. Lassater 
 (name unknown)          in a case concerning alleged financial 
                         misconduct. 
  
 died: circa 5/94      - Died in an alleged suicide by jumping out 
                         of a window of a multi-story building. 
                       - Mr. Lassater was a close associate of Gov. 
                         Clinton, and was later indicted on drug 
                         related charges, among other things. 
  
             -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 

 John A Wilson:  Washington DC councilman.  "Hung himself".  Claimed to
have dirt on Clinton and was 
 threatening to talk.
  
  Vince Foster:  You know the story.
  
  Paul Wilcher:  Attorney investigating Mena.  Found dead at home.  Coroner
did not rule on cause of 
 death.  Wrote letter to Janet Reno detailing his findings which began "The
lives of key 
 participants, witnesses, even myself, are now in grave danger... if you
let this information fall 
 into the wrong hands.  Apparently, she did.  
  
  Jon Walker: RTC investigator.  Mysteriously fell to his death from an
 apartment balcony.  The same apartment which was alleged to have been a
 secret getaway which Foster may have visited.
  
  Luther "Jerry" Parks:  Private investigator and owner of security firm
 which worked for Clinton's presidential campaign, was gunned down on a
 highway. Had a "file" on Clinton dirt.  His home was broken into just
before his death.  The only 
 thing taken was the Clinton file.
  
  Ed Willey:  Manager of Clinton presidential campaign.  Died of "self-
 inflicted" gunshot.  Was reported to have been seen handling suitcases of
money during the campaign.
  
  Hershel Friday:  Member of Clinton presidential campaign committee.
Killed in plane crash in 
 Arkansas.
  
  Dr. Ronald Rogers:  Dentist from Arkanasas.  Killed in plane crash as he
was on his way to an 
 interview with a "London Sunday Telegraph" reporter to reveal some Clinton
dirt.
  
  Kathy Ferguson:  Ex-wife of Trooper Danny Ferguson.  Found dead of
 "suicide" with a gunshot wound to the BACK of her head behind the left
ear.
 Was to be a witness in the Paula Jones case.
  
  Bill Shelton: Arkansas police officer and friend of Kathy Ferguson.
Found
 dead of a "suicide" with a gunshot wound to the BACK of his head, behind
the
 left ear.  Had been vocally critical of the ruling that Kathy's death was
a
 "suicide".
  
  Stanley Huggins:  Partner in Memphis law firm, investigating Madison
 Guaranty.  His 300 page report has never been released.
  
  Florence Martin:  Accountant subcontracting to CIA, related to the Barry
 Seal case.  Dead of three gunshot wounds to the head.
  
  Suzanne Coleman:  Had affair with Clinton when he was attorney general.
 Died of "suicide" with gunshot wound to the back of her head.  No autopsy
 performed.  Was pregnant at time of her death.  Some say it was Clintons.
  
  Paul Tully:  DNC political director.  Died of unknown causes in his hotel
 room.  No autopsy performed.
  
  Jim Wilhite: died of skiing accident, just hours after a phone call from
 Mack Mclarty.
  
   Stanley Heard:  Physician who had treated Clinton's mother, stepfather,
 and brother.  Died in plane crash.
  
   Steve Dickson:  Counsel to Steve Heard.  Died in same plane crash.
  
   Name Unknown:  Attorney for Lasater in case involving drug charges.
Died
 of "suicide" after jumping out of a window.
  
  
 Wounded or attempted murder:

  Gary Johnson: Not dead, but beaten near death and left for dead.  Had
 videotapes of Clinton breaking into Gennifer Flowers' apartment.  His
tapes
 were taken.
  
   Dennis Patrick:  Court clerk.  Had millions of dollars laundered through
 his account at Lasater & Co without his knowledge.  Four attempts on his
 life.
  
   L.J. Davis:  Reporter investigating Clinton scandals.  Attacked at his
 hotel room in Little Rock.  His notes were stolen.

  
   Larry Nichols:  Former official at ADFA and author of "The Clinton
 Chronicles."  The man who broke many of the Clinton scandal stories.
 Several attempts on his life.

  
      And the list goes on......
"Governmental Corruption Must Be Challenged"
 "Homesteadr" James Vallaster
   2943 Oak Court
    Granbury, Texas 76048
     a0003517@airmail.net


From mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Tue Nov 26 07:08:33 PST 1996
Article: 47270 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (fbeae4124f9ae817cd595a8ec3df5786)
References: <848850495$5213@atype.com>
From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Return-Path: news@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 20:33:20 GMT
Message-ID: <848867600$5886@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 'Militia' Patches
Lines: 27



In article <848850495$5213@atype.com>,   wrote:
>
>Highest quality  (Made in the USA!) embroidered patches at extremely
>reasonable prices.  Patches include 'Washington Cruisers',  'Esek
>Hopkins (Don't Tread on me)',  'Bunker Hill',  'Liberty Bell', and the
>traditional 'Minuteman'  patch.
>
>http://www.wyoming.com/~thunder
>

Hey, I've got some suggestions for some more patches:

I  Linda Thompson
The Federal Reserve Note Stops Here
Free the Freemen
Koernke's Kuties
Weather Control Brigade
Microchip Cheek Checked
Stormin' Norman's Corpsmen
Viper Wiper
Looker's Hookers
Pipe Bomb Squad
OKC--Fine by Me
Leroy's Boy Toy
Nutcase--And Proud of it!


From joe@apk.net Tue Nov 26 07:08:43 PST 1996
Article: 47342 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (698e8e37c9082edebff1c70c04aa65c6)
References: <848850495$5213@atype.com> <848867600$5886@atype.com>
From: joe@apk.net (Joseph T. Adams)
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
Organization: APK Net, Ltd.
Return-Path: news@nerd.apk.net
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 96 22:18:03 GMT
Message-ID: <848873883$6113@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 'Militia' Patches
Lines: 27



Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: Hey, I've got some suggestions for some more patches:
: 
: I  Linda Thompson
: The Federal Reserve Note Stops Here
: Free the Freemen
: Koernke's Kuties
: Weather Control Brigade
: Microchip Cheek Checked
: Stormin' Norman's Corpsmen
: Viper Wiper
: Looker's Hookers
: Pipe Bomb Squad
: OKC--Fine by Me
: Leroy's Boy Toy
: Nutcase--And Proud of it!

I suppose those would all fit you, Mark, but the last one kind of sums
it up. 

Perhaps we could take up a collection to buy you one?  It's be a lot
cheaper than getting you what you really need, which would be a life.


Joe


From joe@apk.net Tue Nov 26 07:08:54 PST 1996
Article: 47407 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (444a27ed126d7f88aae5e8f07cc657a5)
References: <848810885$4124@atype.com> <848869389$5975@atype.com>
From: joe@apk.net (Joseph T. Adams)
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]
Organization: APK Net, Ltd.
Return-Path: news@nerd.apk.net
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 96 19:03:03 GMT
Message-ID: <848948583$9936@atype.com>
Subject: Re: "Clinton Bodycount" article wrongfully posted
Lines: 24



Daniel Kuehne (danielk@erols.com) wrote:

: Oh boy... don't get Linda upset, or she'll eat you for breakfast, lunch, and dinner :) 

It isn't about who gets upset; it's about what's right.  The original
list - though not the information contained in the list - was and is
Ms.  Thompson's intellectual property.  It is copyrighted, and NOT in
the public domain, for a very good reason.  Others have often used
this list (a) without giving her proper credit, and/or (b) adding
stuff to it that was not in the original, and may not be accurate,
while passing it off as her list, and/or (c) reproducing and
distributing it in violation of the relevant copyright laws.  Any or
all of the above may have been done in an effort to discredit her, the
list, or the very real fact that scores of people connected with the
Klinton criminal regime have died untimely and unexpected and
statistically unexplainable deaths.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with everything Linda Thompson says and
does, but she is definitely right on this one.


Joe


From aircav@zapcom.net Tue Nov 26 07:08:55 PST 1996
Article: 47410 of misc.activism.militia
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (a03fc2e7c0a2b973030133d0b6e9a328)
References: <848850495$5213@atype.com> <848867600$5886@atype.com>
From: Robert Ireland 
Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 0:33:27 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U)
Message-ID: <848968407$11010@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 'Militia' Patches
Lines: 42


Mark T Pitcavage wrote:
> 
> In article <848850495$5213@atype.com>,   wrote:
> >
> >Highest quality  (Made in the USA!) embroidered patches at extremely
> >reasonable prices.  Patches include 'Washington Cruisers',  'Esek
> >Hopkins (Don't Tread on me)',  'Bunker Hill',  'Liberty Bell', and the
> >traditional 'Minuteman'  patch.
> >
> >http://www.wyoming.com/~thunder
> >
> 
> Hey, I've got some suggestions for some more patches:
> 
> I  Linda Thompson
> The Federal Reserve Note Stops Here
> Free the Freemen
> Koernke's Kuties
> Weather Control Brigade
> Microchip Cheek Checked
> Stormin' Norman's Corpsmen
> Viper Wiper
> Looker's Hookers
> Pipe Bomb Squad
> OKC--Fine by Me
> Leroy's Boy Toy
> Nutcase--And Proud of it!

-- 
I've got one for the antis, in honor of MP.  Its called Mark's Morons
and it comes in Commie Red with yellow lettering.  Features a picture of
Mark's watchdog kissing Bubba's ass.  A real collectors item.  Supplies
limited.

Robert Ireland
aircav@zapcom.net

"Liberty is not free, it must be fought for every day."

Web Page: http://www.zapcom.net/~aircav



From medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu Thu Nov 28 09:57:12 PST 1996
Article: 47457 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (c5855dd48a4c400c7fd210babeed2497)
References: <848850495$5213@atype.com> <848867600$5886@atype.com>
From: medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S. Medintz)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Organization: University of Kansas Computing Services
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 13:18:04 GMT
Message-ID: <849014284$12757@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 'Militia' Patches
Lines: 26


Whilst completely naked, Mark T Pitcavage said unto us:

>Hey, I've got some suggestions for some more patches:

>I  Linda Thompson

Mark, what did we tell you about drawing emotional and sexual connections 
with Linda Thompson? Some of us read this NG during mealtimes.

>Koernke's Kuties

Wasn't that a TV show during the 70's?

>Viper Wiper

Got a pair of viper wipers on the truck's windshield.

>OKC--Fine by Me

Sick and utterly wrong, you should know a LOT better, Mark.

--
Mike S. Medintz|| http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~medintz
"I'm your truth, telling lies. I'm your reasons, alibis.
 I'm inside, open your eyes...I'm you. Sad but True." -Metallica


From sybesma@netcom.com Thu Nov 28 09:57:16 PST 1996
Article: 47466 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (83ddfe678825bdb810651e70b3192468)
References: <848850495$5213@atype.com> <848867600$5886@atype.com>
From: sybesma@netcom.com (Steven D. Sybesma)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 5:18:04 GMT
Message-ID: <848985484$11930@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 'Militia' Patches
Lines: 60


On Sun, 24 Nov 96 20:33:20 GMT Mark T Pitcavage [mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu] wrote:


: In article <848850495$5213@atype.com>,   wrote:
: >
: >Highest quality  (Made in the USA!) embroidered patches at extremely
: >reasonable prices.  Patches include 'Washington Cruisers',  'Esek
: >Hopkins (Don't Tread on me)',  'Bunker Hill',  'Liberty Bell', and the
: >traditional 'Minuteman'  patch.
: >
: >http://www.wyoming.com/~thunder
: >

: Hey, I've got some suggestions for some more patches:

: I  Linda Thompson
: The Federal Reserve Note Stops Here
: Free the Freemen
: Koernke's Kuties
: Weather Control Brigade
: Microchip Cheek Checked
: Stormin' Norman's Corpsmen
: Viper Wiper
: Looker's Hookers
: Pipe Bomb Squad
: OKC--Fine by Me
: Leroy's Boy Toy
: Nutcase--And Proud of it!

...and finally, for those of you in the NG, there's always:

"Mark doesn't speak for me."

Steve
-- 
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
|****Steven D. Sybesma**Post Office Box 31456**Aurora, CO 80041-0456 USA****|
|           ****************Phone  1-303-363-6417****************           |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|            Better to have an army of 100 who have faith in God            |
|          than an army of 100,000 that believe in different gods.          |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Freedom and Liberty weren't invented here.  We simply copied them from God.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The aim of socialism is for mankind to divorce itself from reliance on God.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Trading your rights for promises of peace and security is like trusting a |
|stranger to sleep with your wife and believing nothing immoral will happen.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|America used to be about God & country---Now it's about Socialism & the NWO|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| We don't need Clinton's New Covenant.  The original one will do just fine.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     The U.N. should read Acts 17:22-31 with some emphasis on verse 26     |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|From where we now stand, faithfulness to the Constitution would be progress|
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From haze@earthlink.net Sat Nov 30 11:42:11 PST 1996
Article: 115231 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!206.250.118.17!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: haze@earthlink.net
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Waco: The Big Lie
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 01:22:16 -0500
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
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Could  someone PLEASE tell me how to get the video, WACO: THE BIG LIE.
I had a few numbers for Linda Thompson, but they are all out of service.

Is it still available? 
Any information would be cool...

Thanks!!!

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