The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/t/thompson.linda/1996/usenet.0996


From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Mon Sep 16 06:11:24 PDT 1996
Article: 65962 of alt.revisionism
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From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: 15 Sep 1996 21:39 MST
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In article <51i69r$98d@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes...
> 
>  ... Whois Ken McVay? ...

    {yawn}

    Once again, thanks for the Nizkor advertisement, but you still don't
    have that address right.  The one you keep offering is a drop box which
    is only checked once a month.  The second address you offer has been
    bad for five years.  Please update your records to show that donations
    for the Project's efforts may be made payable to

          The Zikaron Society / Nizkor Project

    Please mail your cheque to

          The Zikaron Tolerance and Remembrance Society
          6540 East Hastings Street, Suite 221
          Burnaby, BC V5B 4Z5

    Canadian income tax receipts will be issued.

    [Correct American address for donations, is noted on 
    http://www.nizkor.org/funding.html]

    Nizkor thanks you, and, of course, Linda Thompson, and Mr.
    Grosvenor-Gruber-Acumen-Wahrheit, for the continuing reminder of the
    importance of public education, and your contributions to the
    continuing success of the Nizkor Project.

-- 
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nizkor@nizkor.org   |---------------------------------------------
--------------------| An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
Search Nizkor:        http://www.nizkor.org/search.html



From lindat@iquest.net Mon Sep 16 07:20:07 PDT 1996
Article: 313977 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
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From: lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson)
Subject: Re: Waco Wacko  -- A Real Witness, and Hamsters in their Thimble
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ind-004-236-187.iquest.net
Message-ID: 
Keywords: government Clinton CIA FBI ATF NSA DIA politics police militia military
Sender: lindat@iquest.net
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:46:26 GMT
Lines: 111
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.clinton:293792 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:378052 alt.politics.usa.republican:282337 talk.politics.guns:313977 talk.politics.misc:460695

A person who claims to be a former ATF agent and can actually use a
computer -- what a concept!  Well, too bad thinking doesn't go with
the computer.

First, I suggest you see:

http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum  <---- Best address
http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum
http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum


And also:  Waco, the Big Lie and Waco II, the Big Lie Continues, and
Forgive Us We didn't Know.

In *ALL THESE PHOTOS, ALL THIS FILM* you will see dozens of shots of
the cars and trucks outside Mt. Carmel, the windshields on the cars
outside Mt. Carmel -- right at the front door, mind you, and you'll
see the five foot fence in front of the front door, and you'll see the
cattle trailers the ATF drove up in (the trailers that stayed ON
CAMERA and OUTSIDE THE HOUSE for a few days afterwards), and many of
these shots are while ATF is just shooting away.

NONE of the things facing the house:  NOT THE FENCE, NOT THE
WINDSHIELDS OF THE CARS, NOT THE CATTLE TRAILERS THAT CARRIED THAT
WHOLE MASS OF INCOMPETENT, SCUMBAGS TO MT. CARMEL
has any holes in them.

AMAAAAZING, eh?

Did you know that several people INSIDE MT. CARMEL were killed the day
of the raid?

That's in the GOVERNMENT'S OWN REPORTS.

We have film showing the CHILD who was killed and the other who was
burned by one of you thugs' "flash-bang" grenades.

You are a disgrace.  You are a sick nazi thug and I wish ALL OF YOU
HAD DIED AT MT CARMEL ON FEBRUARY 28, 1993.

TOO DAMNED BAD YOU DIDN'T.

You and the other jack-booted, brainless robtos working for our
supposed "government" dictatorship are a waste of air and space on
this planet.



author@mainelink.net wrote:

>Hi Normal People,

>     Just thought I'd wipe up more slime that's been posted in the forum.




>kam@cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington) wrote:
>>Sarah Emma Edmonds writes:
>>: On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:21:29, dever@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu (Douglas A.
>>: Dever) wrote:
>>
>>: >No, no, no ,no maam... what counts here is *THE LAW*... 
>>
>>: You mean when the law comes knocking it is illegal to shoot and kill
>>: those law officers?  Yes the law does count, to some.
>>
>>	Funny that!  In the congressional hearings the BATF agents
>>	testified that they did not knock and had no intention of
>>	knocking.

>It seems rather pointless to knock after the residents have
>begun shooting at you -- begun shooting before you even got
>near the door.



>  They said that they trained to use only a dynamic
>>	entry after first creating a "diversion."  The fact that the
>>	diversion amounted to flash-bangs trough the window indicates

>Flashbangs weren't used until, during the firefight, agents
>climbed to the chapel roof to gain entry to the Davidians'
>arms room.


>The rest of Marchington's drivel is too silly to merit correction.


>                                            Jim



Kind regards,

************ V ***************
 Death to the New World Order
******************************

Dr. Linda Thompson
Attorney at Law
Chairman, American Justice Federation
lindat@iquest.net

******************************
      Remember Waco.
The murderers are still free.
******************************
   Have you seen this yet?
http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum




From lindat@iquest.net Mon Sep 16 07:20:08 PDT 1996
Article: 313978 of talk.politics.guns
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
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From: lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson)
Subject: JACK-BOOTED NAZI THUGS SHOULD HAVE DIED.
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Message-ID: 
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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 03:48:25 GMT
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This is a resend.  I should have changed the title to aptly reflect
the truth.

A person who claims to be a former ATF agent and can actually use a
computer -- what a concept!  Well, too bad thinking doesn't go with
the computer.

First, I suggest you see:

http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum  <---- Best address
http://www.mnsinc.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum
http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum


And also:  Waco, the Big Lie and Waco II, the Big Lie Continues, and
Forgive Us We didn't Know.

In *ALL THESE PHOTOS, ALL THIS FILM* you will see dozens of shots of
the cars and trucks outside Mt. Carmel, the windshields on the cars
outside Mt. Carmel -- right at the front door, mind you, and you'll
see the five foot fence in front of the front door, and you'll see the
cattle trailers the ATF drove up in (the trailers that stayed ON
CAMERA and OUTSIDE THE HOUSE for a few days afterwards), and many of
these shots are while ATF is just shooting away.

NONE of the things facing the house:  NOT THE FENCE, NOT THE
WINDSHIELDS OF THE CARS, NOT THE CATTLE TRAILERS THAT CARRIED THAT
WHOLE MASS OF INCOMPETENT, SCUMBAGS TO MT. CARMEL
has any holes in them.

AMAAAAZING, eh?

Did you know that several people INSIDE MT. CARMEL were killed the day
of the raid?

That's in the GOVERNMENT'S OWN REPORTS.

We have film showing the CHILD who was killed and the other who was
burned by one of you thugs' "flash-bang" grenades.

You are a disgrace.  You are a sick nazi thug and I wish ALL OF YOU
HAD DIED AT MT CARMEL ON FEBRUARY 28, 1993.

TOO DAMNED BAD YOU DIDN'T.

You and the other jack-booted, brainless robtos working for our
supposed "government" dictatorship are a waste of air and space on
this planet.



author@mainelink.net wrote:

>Hi Normal People,

>     Just thought I'd wipe up more slime that's been posted in the forum.




>kam@cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington) wrote:
>>Sarah Emma Edmonds writes:
>>: On Wed, 11 Sep 1996 17:21:29, dever@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu (Douglas A.
>>: Dever) wrote:
>>
>>: >No, no, no ,no maam... what counts here is *THE LAW*... 
>>
>>: You mean when the law comes knocking it is illegal to shoot and kill
>>: those law officers?  Yes the law does count, to some.
>>
>>	Funny that!  In the congressional hearings the BATF agents
>>	testified that they did not knock and had no intention of
>>	knocking.

>It seems rather pointless to knock after the residents have
>begun shooting at you -- begun shooting before you even got
>near the door.



>  They said that they trained to use only a dynamic
>>	entry after first creating a "diversion."  The fact that the
>>	diversion amounted to flash-bangs trough the window indicates

>Flashbangs weren't used until, during the firefight, agents
>climbed to the chapel roof to gain entry to the Davidians'
>arms room.


>The rest of Marchington's drivel is too silly to merit correction.


>                                            Jim



Kind regards,

************ V ***************
 Death to the New World Order
******************************

Dr. Linda Thompson
Attorney at Law
Chairman, American Justice Federation
lindat@iquest.net

******************************
      Remember Waco.
The murderers are still free.
******************************
   Have you seen this yet?
http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum




From discipio@crl.com Mon Sep 16 11:10:24 PDT 1996
Article: 460838 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.cts.com!news7.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: discipio@crl.com (William R. Discipio Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Waco Wacko  -- A Real Witness, and Hamsters in their Thimble
Followup-To: alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Date: 16 Sep 1996 09:11:07 -0700
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  <3237563d.1259704@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <519b4s$ju4@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> <51bouc$1bs@news.ime.net> <51cmsu$85r@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> 
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Rafe B. (rafeb@tiac.net) wrote:
: In article <51cmsu$85r@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, tdp@ix.netcom.com says...
: > If anyone disagrees with this, 
: > I would be more than happy to bet them
: > one thousand dollars that these are facts,
: > and we can have our attorneys hold the money,
: > and select a third impartial attorney to
: > survey the facts and decides who wins the bet.
: > 


Let's see if Rafe puts his money where his mouth is...

: Oh, aren't you a brave gunloon, Mr. Potter.

: Ready to wager a thousand dollars on 
: evidence provided by Linda Thompson,
: "Acting Adjutant General" of the 
: Loonies of America.

: Ms. Thompson is so loony, even the
: freakin John Birch Society won't endorse
: her BS.  But of course, that hasn't
: stopped you from swallowing it whole.

: And I just _love_ your cute theory
: about one BATF agent killing the other
: three.  That was just precious.

: (And how _clever_ of you to insinuate
: Bill Clinton's involvement in all this!)

: Reminds me of a very similar BS theory
: concerning the firestorm in which Gordon
: Kahl died, wherein poor Mr. Kahl was
: neatly "absolved" of the murder of a
: sheriff's deputy.

: Who cares, really.  In both cases, the
: poor "innocents" died in hellfires of
: their own making.  You go looking for
: Armageddon, you're sure to find it.

Amazingly verbose dodge, Rafe.  Why don't you simply put your money where 
your mouth is?


: Rafe B.
-- 
The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment
to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity,
or national origin in the operation of public employment, public
education, or public contracting.   YES on 209!


From discipio@crl.com Mon Sep 16 11:11:55 PDT 1996
Article: 314068 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.cts.com!news7.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!crl.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: discipio@crl.com (William R. Discipio Jr)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Waco Wacko  -- A Real Witness, and Hamsters in their Thimble
Followup-To: alt.politics.clinton,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Date: 16 Sep 1996 09:11:07 -0700
Organization: US Peace Corps 800 424-8580
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  <3237563d.1259704@netnews.worldnet.att.net> <519b4s$ju4@hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com> <51bouc$1bs@news.ime.net> <51cmsu$85r@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> 
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Rafe B. (rafeb@tiac.net) wrote:
: In article <51cmsu$85r@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, tdp@ix.netcom.com says...
: > If anyone disagrees with this, 
: > I would be more than happy to bet them
: > one thousand dollars that these are facts,
: > and we can have our attorneys hold the money,
: > and select a third impartial attorney to
: > survey the facts and decides who wins the bet.
: > 


Let's see if Rafe puts his money where his mouth is...

: Oh, aren't you a brave gunloon, Mr. Potter.

: Ready to wager a thousand dollars on 
: evidence provided by Linda Thompson,
: "Acting Adjutant General" of the 
: Loonies of America.

: Ms. Thompson is so loony, even the
: freakin John Birch Society won't endorse
: her BS.  But of course, that hasn't
: stopped you from swallowing it whole.

: And I just _love_ your cute theory
: about one BATF agent killing the other
: three.  That was just precious.

: (And how _clever_ of you to insinuate
: Bill Clinton's involvement in all this!)

: Reminds me of a very similar BS theory
: concerning the firestorm in which Gordon
: Kahl died, wherein poor Mr. Kahl was
: neatly "absolved" of the murder of a
: sheriff's deputy.

: Who cares, really.  In both cases, the
: poor "innocents" died in hellfires of
: their own making.  You go looking for
: Armageddon, you're sure to find it.

Amazingly verbose dodge, Rafe.  Why don't you simply put your money where 
your mouth is?


: Rafe B.
-- 
The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment
to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity,
or national origin in the operation of public employment, public
education, or public contracting.   YES on 209!


From lindat@iquest.net Mon Sep 16 14:05:13 PDT 1996
Article: 88668 of alt.conspiracy
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalism
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From: lindat@iquest.net (Dr. Linda Thompson)
Subject: Re: ---> Nancy Lord and Justice Department Misconduct <---
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Russost@aol.com (S.Russo) wrote:

>99@spies.com (Extremely Right ) wrote:

>>SUBJECT: U.S. District Judge Duross Fitzpatrick dismissed Nancy Lord as
>>defendant Bob Starr's main counsel.

>You expect anything more from the hapless Louis Freeh(loader), his FBI
>and BATF?
>Reminds me of another guy in Georgia with the Gestappo..er... FBI up
>his ass.... remember the security guard at the olympics who's had his
>life ripped to shreds by Big Bro Freeh and NBC?


On Sat, 07 Sep 1996 16:48:50, moonbeam@gte.net (Douglas A. Sarbach)
wrote:

>FOR MASS DISTRIBUTION
>
>A terrible miss-justice has happen in Macon, Ga. today that will shock
>every Red Bloodied American. The Department of Injustice has seen to
>it, that Dr. Nancy Lord, Attorney at law and 1992 Libertarian
>Vice-president candidate, was removed from the Bob Starr Case in
>Federal Court of the middle district of Georgia. Early in the case Dr.
>Lord and the defense went to Jimmie McCranie's house to recover some
>vital evidence pertaining to the case. Now the Judge is claiming that
>there were explosive residue, and she is being threaten by the
>Department of Injustice of being subpoenaed to testify against her own
>client Bob Starr. Dr. Lord has stated that she will reserve her
>attorney client privilege, and her 5th Amendment right. Even risking
>the possibility of going to jail. 
>
>Is any American safe from being railroaded into false injustice, and
>used as a political stepping stone to glorify those who would want to
>rule over us and enslave us? How long will you ignore the abuses of an
>totalitarian government when they are imprisoning innocent people?
>Will you wait until they come from you, and will there be any American
>Citizen to defend you? 


Nancy Lord is an attorney and as an attorney, she is and was well
aware that by putting herself in a position of obtaining evidence, she
put herself in a position of becoming a witness, which by law,
requires that she remove herself for conflict of interest.  She did
not.  The judge is upholding the law in removing her, not as you
present it to the contrary.

There is a privilege against testifying against confidential
communications received from the client.  That is the CLIENT's
privilege, not the attorney's.  The attorney cannot disclose
communications from the client without the client's permission.

However, there is no such privilege to prevent and in fact, there is a
duty that requires, that a person who is or becomes a witness to
actual events, must testify.  Attorneys are well aware of this and as
a result, *DO NOT* go out and gather evidence.  They can hire an
independent third party to do this, among other things, as a way to
avoid the obvious problem presented if they were to do it themselves.

By the rules of attorney ethics, an attorney CANNOT, LEGALLY CANNOT
represent someone when they could also be called as a witness to any
matter in the case, which Lord knew when she involved herself in
gathering evidence.

She should have removed herself far earlier so her client would not be
disadvantaged by the lack of time for new counsel to prepare, or
alternatively, have to sit in jail waiting for trial longer, while new
counsel prepares. 

Based on the other circumstances involved in which Lord compromised
her client, of which many are aware, but which I will not rehash here,
and given the fact that Lord apparently glibly told the press that
when she was gathering the evidence that made her a witness, she had
gone "where her client told her she would find" this evidence (thus
revealing WHAT HER CLIENT TOLD HER -- a client confidence), it is
clearly the DUTY of the court to remove this attorney.

One might ask, instead:  How did Nancy Lord come to be on this case
and to compromise this man, in several ways, and then fail to remove
herself in a timely manner?  Who set this up?

Don't try to sell the pitch for money as if "poor little Nancy" is
being picked on.

In the meantime, however, Starr most assuredly does need a good
defense attorney and probably a truckload of cash. 

There *is* an attorny on the case, Scott McLarty.  He and the family
could and probably have, set up a legal escrow account to receive
funds for the defense.  No one with any sense should send money to
somebody in Florida.

There have been more scams running in this case than just the obvious
ATF scam and it's pretty disgusting to watch.






Kind regards,

************ V ***************
 Death to the New World Order
******************************

Dr. Linda Thompson
Attorney at Law
Chairman, American Justice Federation
lindat@iquest.net

******************************
      Remember Waco.
The murderers are still free.
******************************
   Have you seen this yet?
http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum




From rafeb@tiac.net Wed Sep 25 08:47:33 PDT 1996
Article: 318267 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild!news@tiac.net
From: rafeb@tiac.net (Rafe B.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: To Linda Thompson - how about giving us a list of what you consider your personal accomplishments to gun rights.
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 22:56:23 -0400
Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc.
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In article <5263hq$j81@crl11.crl.com>, stratos@crl.com says...
>        I just received a piece of hate mail from Linda Thompson, which
> I won't bore you with here.  Stripped of all its invectives, her main 
> point appeared to be that my view of her "accomplishments" was purely 
> based on what the media have said about her.  Rather than argue that 
> point, and in an effort to be totally fair, I will simply ask Linda to 
> give me, and hence you, a list of what *SHE* considers to be *POSITIVE* 
> accomplishments in the battle to maintain our 2nd Amendment rights.
> Then we can all decide if she has been misrepresented by the media.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 


Nobody said Linda was all that bright.  ;)


Rafe B.


From pdgraham@holli.com Wed Sep 25 08:47:57 PDT 1996
Article: 318219 of talk.politics.guns
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From: patrick graham 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: To Linda Thompson - how about giving us a list of what you consider your personal accomplishments to gun rights.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:36:01 -0700
Organization: HolliCom Internet Services
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Steve D. Fischer wrote:
> 
>        I just received a piece of hate mail from Linda Thompson, which
> I won't bore you with here.  Stripped of all its invectives, her main
> point appeared to be that my view of her "accomplishments" was purely
> based on what the media have said about her.  Rather than argue that
> point, and in an effort to be totally fair, I will simply ask Linda to
> give me, and hence you, a list of what *SHE* considers to be *POSITIVE*
> accomplishments in the battle to maintain our 2nd Amendment rights.
> Then we can all decide if she has been misrepresented by the media.
> 
> Steve

Her biggest achievement is to disgrace and denigrate freedom loving
Americans. Her words and actions play right into that hands of those who
want to make us out to be a bunch of crazies. I think she is an agent
saboteur planted in our midst by some anti-gun group.

Patrick Graham


From dsale@southeast.net Wed Sep 25 10:32:24 PDT 1996
Article: 126555 of soc.culture.african.american
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!ns2.southeast.net!news
From: dsale@southeast.net (Danny Sale)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.rights.human,alt.censorship,alt.journalism,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.radical-left,soc.veterans,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Part 6, AMERICA UNDER SIEGE: New World Order Coup D'Etat
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:17:55 GMT
Organization: Southeast Network Services, Inc.
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>I agree that "New World Order" rants from the likes of
>DiNardo, Feustel and Linda Thompson do a lot to discredit 
>gunloons.

I don't understand. Linda Thompson spoke of highway cameras being
installed, and everyone thought she was crazy. She took pictures of
them, still, she's a loon. Now they ADMIT they have them.
She spoke of Concentration camps and gave locations. You can go there,
and look at them yourself.
Whats so loony about fact?





From mordor@skypoint.com Wed Sep 25 10:32:31 PDT 1996
Article: 126582 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: "Mr. Anonymous" 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.rights.human,alt.censorship,alt.journalism,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.radical-left,soc.veterans,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Part 6, AMERICA UNDER SIEGE: New World Order Coup D'Etat
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:53:14 -0500
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.
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On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Danny Sale wrote:

> 
> >I agree that "New World Order" rants from the likes of
> >DiNardo, Feustel and Linda Thompson do a lot to discredit 
> >gunloons.
> 
> I don't understand. Linda Thompson spoke of highway cameras being
> installed, and everyone thought she was crazy. She took pictures of
> them, still, she's a loon. Now they ADMIT they have them.
> She spoke of Concentration camps and gave locations. You can go there,
> and look at them yourself.
> Whats so loony about fact?
> 

	Uhm, what's up with this gunloon stuff?  I own guns for whatever 
reason, and fully plan on keeping them, does that make me a gunloon?
	My grandfather told me what happened when governments disarm 
their people.  Almost imediatly afterward, they toss your ass in a camp 
and put lovely numbers on your arm.
	My history books also mention what happens when governments 
disarm groups of people, they then give you a government blanket and put 
you up at these oh so wonderful resorts called 'Reservations'.
	I have first hand experience of what happens to people who arent 
allowed to own guns.  In colombia, it is against the law for private 
citizens to own guns. I saw the bodies of many many many people who were 
not able to defend themselves against the drug lords' mercenaries, the 
comunist rebels, or their own government.  The rebels shot them if the 
villagers didnt support them, the government shot them if they supported 
the rebels, and the merc's shot them just for something to do.
	Sorry pal, being without firearms just doesnt sound like a real 
safe thing.  Look at the FBI stats, area's where private gun ownership is 
encouraged (Kennesaw Ga for example) where violent crime is almost 
non-existant and compare it a place where gun ownership is almost totally 
out-lawed like New York or Washington DC.
	I dont talk to my weapons, I dont preach for the overthrow of 
anything, and I dont dream of ever using a weapon against anyone ever 
again (my service days are long past), but should anyone, criminal or 
otherwise bust in my house and wish to take my firearms, it will not be a 
good day for anyone involved, including myself.
	Does that define me as a gunloon?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "Mr Anonymous"						  mordor@skypoint.com



From rgates8254@aol.com Wed Sep 25 22:42:29 PDT 1996
Article: 91987 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: rgates8254@aol.com (RGates8254)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Same Rumor mongering thats gone on for year
Date: 25 Sep 1996 18:07:58 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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>She spoke of Concentration camps and gave locations. You can go there,
>and look at them yourself.
>Whats so loony about fact?

  The only thing I ever saw was abandoned buildings that were mostly
garbage dumps.    The theory apparently was "Well this abandoned evil
looking building looks like it POSSIBLY could be a site for a
concentration camp, THEREFOR IT IS.  Of course you could stretch the
theory even further by claiming that  "they" set up all the ruble and
garbage in these buildings to hid the fact that it would be a
"concentration camp."
  Linda Thompson was not the originator of the Concentration Camp rumor,
but it was started in the late 60s by leftist black radicals that were
frothing.  From their the story grew legs and was retold by assundry
people over the years, each person claiming that there story was the true
and correct one and everybody else's was a bunch of crap.
  The story grew when Mark from Michigan, the NWO intel guy, that was a
janitor at the U of M claimed that George Bush signed an executive order
that created concentration camps.  Of course nobody could come up with the
number and date so that the story could be checked out.  But "they" heard
it over talk radio, so the story just had to be true blah blah blah.
  Bottom line is the story will resurface in a couple of years, be
polished up, retold  and it will cause many new internet threads and
storys.

Cheers,



RGates8254@AOL.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of
chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!  I know not what course other
may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!
                 ------Patrick Henry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------



From rafeb@tiac.net Thu Sep 26 11:18:57 PDT 1996
Article: 51426 of alt.society.civil-liberty
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From: rafeb@tiac.net (Rafe B.)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.rights.human,alt.censorship,alt.journalism,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.radical-left,soc.veterans,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Part 6, AMERICA UNDER SIEGE: New World Order Coup D'Etat
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 23:08:40 -0400
Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc.
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In article , 
mordor@skypoint.com says...

> I'm still thinking this Dinardo is one of Janet Reno's secretary's 
> or something, spouting off these incredibly stupid theory's just to scare 
> the average citizen into believing how bad private citizens with guns can 
> be.

No, I think John is genuinely looney, and acting on his
own.  Like his pal Dave Feustel.

> This Idiot has done more to INCREASE the anti-gun feelings in 
> America than Clinton, Sara Brady, and HCI combined.
> 

Well, I dunno about that... outside of this NG (or USENET)
who is John Dinardo, anyway?

I think your "award of honor" should go to the NRA
for their "jack-booted-thugs" letter.

I agree that "New World Order" rants from the likes of
DiNardo, Feustel and Linda Thompson do a lot to discredit 
gunloons.  Occasionally one sees a disclaimer such as 
yours; it would be nice to see more TPG denizens distancing
themselves from the idiot fringes.



Rafe B.


From dsale@southeast.net Thu Sep 26 11:19:04 PDT 1996
Article: 51460 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!ns2.mainstreet.net!ns2.southeast.net!news
From: dsale@southeast.net (Danny Sale)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.rights.human,alt.censorship,alt.journalism,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.radical-left,soc.veterans,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Part 6, AMERICA UNDER SIEGE: New World Order Coup D'Etat
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:17:55 GMT
Organization: Southeast Network Services, Inc.
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>I agree that "New World Order" rants from the likes of
>DiNardo, Feustel and Linda Thompson do a lot to discredit 
>gunloons.

I don't understand. Linda Thompson spoke of highway cameras being
installed, and everyone thought she was crazy. She took pictures of
them, still, she's a loon. Now they ADMIT they have them.
She spoke of Concentration camps and gave locations. You can go there,
and look at them yourself.
Whats so loony about fact?





From mordor@skypoint.com Thu Sep 26 11:19:06 PDT 1996
Article: 51467 of alt.society.civil-liberty
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!inter2.interstice.com!nanospace.com!pornstorm.eit.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sgi.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!skypoint.com!mirage!mordor
From: "Mr. Anonymous" 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.rights.human,alt.censorship,alt.journalism,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.radical-left,soc.veterans,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Part 6, AMERICA UNDER SIEGE: New World Order Coup D'Etat
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:53:14 -0500
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.
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References: <523lhl$6d3@news.cic.net>   <529mv0$dfv@ns2.southeast.net>
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On Tue, 24 Sep 1996, Danny Sale wrote:

> 
> >I agree that "New World Order" rants from the likes of
> >DiNardo, Feustel and Linda Thompson do a lot to discredit 
> >gunloons.
> 
> I don't understand. Linda Thompson spoke of highway cameras being
> installed, and everyone thought she was crazy. She took pictures of
> them, still, she's a loon. Now they ADMIT they have them.
> She spoke of Concentration camps and gave locations. You can go there,
> and look at them yourself.
> Whats so loony about fact?
> 

	Uhm, what's up with this gunloon stuff?  I own guns for whatever 
reason, and fully plan on keeping them, does that make me a gunloon?
	My grandfather told me what happened when governments disarm 
their people.  Almost imediatly afterward, they toss your ass in a camp 
and put lovely numbers on your arm.
	My history books also mention what happens when governments 
disarm groups of people, they then give you a government blanket and put 
you up at these oh so wonderful resorts called 'Reservations'.
	I have first hand experience of what happens to people who arent 
allowed to own guns.  In colombia, it is against the law for private 
citizens to own guns. I saw the bodies of many many many people who were 
not able to defend themselves against the drug lords' mercenaries, the 
comunist rebels, or their own government.  The rebels shot them if the 
villagers didnt support them, the government shot them if they supported 
the rebels, and the merc's shot them just for something to do.
	Sorry pal, being without firearms just doesnt sound like a real 
safe thing.  Look at the FBI stats, area's where private gun ownership is 
encouraged (Kennesaw Ga for example) where violent crime is almost 
non-existant and compare it a place where gun ownership is almost totally 
out-lawed like New York or Washington DC.
	I dont talk to my weapons, I dont preach for the overthrow of 
anything, and I dont dream of ever using a weapon against anyone ever 
again (my service days are long past), but should anyone, criminal or 
otherwise bust in my house and wish to take my firearms, it will not be a 
good day for anyone involved, including myself.
	Does that define me as a gunloon?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "Mr Anonymous"						  mordor@skypoint.com



From lloyd@a-albionic.com Fri Sep 27 10:31:54 PDT 1996
Article: 92468 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Lloyd Miller 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Seeing the Big Lie Machine (fwd)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:53:17 -0400
Organization: Msen
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:34:28 -0700
From: Tracy Harms 
To: prj@mail.msen.com
Subject: Re: Seeing the Big Lie Machine

Ian Goddard informs us:

>I first became drawn into the "conspiracy investigation nexus" after
>I saw Linda Thompson's video, "Waco, the Big Lie." Seeing in my mind
>a room full of children burned to death by the tank, I could not sleep
>that night, my world view was forever changed. [...]
>
>But even then I believed that this was an isolated incident, that, at
>Waco, the system that assures us that the truth is known and injustice
>is prevented just broke down. Then, the OK bombing and all the media lies
>and govt cover-up. Then TWA... then I read Votescam, and now I am beginning
>to see that Waco was not an isolated incident, that Big Lie BS is that
>standard [fare] and the super structure of our entrained world-view.


Well, this week I've been watching _The West_ on PBS, and for something
sanitized for political correctness it is still a slap in the face, a
reminder of just how bad things have *always* been right in these here
United States -- and the federal territories which would become States.

Constitutionally limited powers?  Equal rights under the law?  No taxation
without representation?  Federal troops for the general safety, not the
profit of privileged corporations?  Ha!  And I've not but scratched the
surface.  Even I have tended to imagine that things didn't go to hell until
the Civil War.  Now it is a bit clearer to me that the values I imagine as
the American tradition were *never* dominant in America's development.
They were not even broadly decisive.

Such instructive moments inspire me to not be the fool, to not take
seriously the lies of those institutions through which have come so many
promises, so false, for so long, assured to multitudes.  And yet that
points in the direction of complete abandonment of hope, which I doubt I
can endure.  If *these* people -- my American countrymen -- who proclaim
admirable ideals so confidently, cannot bring themselves to act in keeping
with their own ideals, could I find solace among the men of any other land?


Tracy Harms
Boulder, Colorado

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From lloyd@a-albionic.com Fri Sep 27 10:32:13 PDT 1996
Article: 92551 of alt.conspiracy
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From: Lloyd Miller 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Seeing the Big Lie Machine (fwd)
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:56:57 -0400
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:10:46 -0400
From: Ian Goddard 
To: Lloyd Miller 
Cc: New Paradigms Discussion List 
Subject: Seeing the Big Lie Machine

At 07:21 PM 9/17/96 -0400, Lloyd Miller wrote:
>
>

I first became drawn into the "conspiracy investigation nexus" after
I saw Linda Thompson's video, "Waco, the Big Lie." Seeing in my mind
a room full of children burned to death by the tank, I could not sleep
that night, my world view was forever changed. While I now realize it
contained many errors and misleading features, it contains more damming
info against the govt-media line that it contains internal problems.

Prior to that point, I was, for all intensive purposes, a media zombie.
During the Waco affair, even as a libertarian, I toed the govt line 100%.
I was surprised they could not stop the fire, but questioned the govt
actions or the media story 0%. After that video, I realized I had been
feed a Big Lie. Never again could I believe without question the media
story ( I define "story" as the final picture, the history, and the
slant on braking events ).

But even then I believed that this was an isolated incident, that, at
Waco, the system that assures us that the truth is known and injustice
is prevented just broke down. Then, the OK bombing and all the media lies
and govt cover-up. Then TWA... then I read Votescam, and now I am beginning
to see that Waco was not an isolated incident, that Big Lie BS is that
standard fair and the super structure of our entrained world-view.

As I am starting to read, as time allows (not that it's a big book),
"None Dare Call it Conspiracy," I am still more inclined to see that
Waco was no isolated incident, that very sweep of history and the entire
belief/truth/reality system that I have grown up in is a fabrication
orchestrated by the super-mega-wealthy.

When I became a libertarian, after years of independent study, against
the inclination of leftist family and friends, I realized that the voice
in my head saying "No no no" to freedom was my public school social studies
teacher and the movies that she played for us. That was my programming
that was where my world-view was molded. Through independent study and
logical inquiry I've broken out of that mold, and now see it clearly.

I realize that the penalty for seeing the program, for "wrong thought"
is swift and sever, ad hominem labels and blanket condemnation. But I
also realize that logic and careful presentation of fact are potent weapons
against the program. With these I've helped others out of it, and gotten
still others to question the program, but not nearly as many as one might
hope. Even if our knowledge is crushed, even if we cannot defeat the
program with facts and logic, which the program is most carefully
designed to attack, it's worth having the knowledge because only
the truth matters to me.

The final argument people make against the holistic logic I present
-- which states and demonstrates that every thing is a feature of every
thing else -- is "Ok, now I see what your saying, but it's not useful."
Perhaps it isn't, but ultimate truth itself is meaningful to me
regardless of its functional utility, and I want to know it.


Comments below:

>
>	Ian:  Jews believe they are the "chosen people".  At the very
>least this is extreme ethnic, tribal chauvinism if not a "master race"
>ideology like Nazism.
>
>	Ben Hecht exposed co-operation of Zionist and Nazis.  Jabotinsky
>was a rather extreme Zionist collectivist, to put it mildly.  His demeanor
>according to my reading put him in the same style as Mousolini and Franco
>and Hitler.  He believed in extreme militarist Jewish Collectivism.
>
>	Further, there is a long history of European Monarchs using Jews
>for extractive purposes against the rest of the populations, esp. having
>them front for the "Christian" monarch in loaning money at interest, so
>called usury.  The Monarch would often specially licence the Jews for
>usury and tax farming, giving them a monoply through which he somewhat
>covertly profited.  This was especially popular in the German
>Principalities whose rulers are the progenitors of British Royalty.  The
>Landgrave of Hesse Cassel, for instance, brought the Rothschilds to power
>as his "Court Jews".  They protected his fortune from Napoleon and rose to
>prominence in the British Court by covertly transfering funds to
>Wellington to defeat Napoleon.
>
>See:
>
>_Fatal Embrace Jews and State_ by Benjamin Ginsberg Cat #14036 year 1993
>286 pp hc/pb hardcover $25.00  In-stock @ A-albionic Research
>
>Wherever jews have settled, Ginsberg writes, "Their literacy,
>commercial skills and alienation from Gentile society have made them
>useful to kings, princes, sultans, prime ministers, commissars and
>presidents.  Ambitious rulers have given them all sorts of protection
>and opportunities in exchange for their services as administrators,
>financiers and diplomats.  In past centures Jews have played important
>roles in the building of absolutist, liberal, and Communist social
>orders and in reforming or overthrowing regimes in which they have
>been unable to obtain super-equality.  In this "embrace of the State",
>they have risen to positions of great wealth and power, although it is
>precisely this relationship between Jews and the state that has often
>proved fatal to them, as they became touchstones of opposition to what
>they helped to establish."


Perhaps Jews have been exploited by the elite for their commitment
to intellectual excellence. But, from the individualist angle, the
necessary anti-authoritarian meme, I think we need not say that
"Jews" own this or that, but that individual Y, H, and K owns it.
I am not saying tht's what you've said. Indeed "the chosen people"
is a master race meme ipso facto.

Group or genetic affiliation is not important. It is the memetic
affiliation that is important, and when we say "Jews" is feed the
collectivist meme.

A perfect measure of the error of using the identity "Jew" is that
our effort should be to bring everyone to the truth and to freedom,
but by labling people as X because they are a memeber of a genetic
group, or even appearing to do this, we necessarily alienate all
individuals in that category, we make enemies. That is pure folly.
Our only enemy need be initiatory force, theft and fraud, the only
elements of which the Big Lie machine is constructed.


**********************************************************************
 IAN GODDARD        FREEDOM: to have it, give it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 visit Ian Goddard's Universe  ----->   http://www.erols.com/igoddard
______________________________________________________________________






From rgates8254@aol.com Fri Sep 27 13:19:53 PDT 1996
Article: 36559 of misc.activism.militia
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (e9f5d5e0a316e2b7064449dc40cf3850)
From: rgates8254@aol.com (RGates8254)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Posted-Date: 25 Sep 1996 18:46:57 -0400
Reply-To: rgates8254@aol.com (RGates8254)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 22:48:03 GMT
Message-ID: <843691683$4109@atype.com>
Subject: So What is the Latest Rumor(s) in circulation??  Did Chuck Harder go belly up?
Lines: 68


  What is the latest rumors in circulation from talk radio and other so
called reliable sources.  The last crop was:

1)  Linda Thompson's Militia march on Washington.   Didn't happen

 2) Nationwide BATF raids in March of 1995.  Didn't happen

  3) October Surprise rumors, of impending action blah blah.  Didn't
Happen

  4)  Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush and now Clinton were all "going to
declare martial law and impose a dictatorship on USA.  Didn't happen.

  5) First Reagan, then the rumor mill started again under Bush that "an
Executive Order was signed which created xxx concentration camps.  However
when you ask the proponents of the rumor to supply the EO #, and date,
they can't do it, but "they just know it was signed because they heard the
story from such and such.  See next item.  Bottom line never happened.

  6) Government going to set up concentration camps for the patriots. 
Rumor was actually started by leftist black radicals in the 60s.  In the
70s it was going to be the "Russians" who were going to invade USA, then
build C camps.  In the 80s Reagan was going to do it, then Bush, then
Clinton.  Bottom line is it didn't happen.

  7)  The next rumor was a rich one.  It went to the effect of "Well the
1980 (then read 1984, then 1988, then 1992, then 1994, and now 1996)
election will be "the last free election in America."    Same rumor just
revised and updated during each election year cycle.

   8)  In a 60 minutes interview Janet Reno defined Patriots and gun
owners as blah blah.  The reality of this one was that the story was
picked up and printed (without being checked out) by some midwest militia
publication.  They heard it from some unnamed woman in Florida who claimed
to have heard it from such and such.

  9)  I saw a Black Helicoptor blah blah.  But when you check the storys
out you find that many of them don't check out, and are storys that people
heard from short wave or talk radio, then repeat them in the first person.
 (Rule #1 in rumor mongering is you never say "Well I heard this from a
buddy, who heard it from a Cousin, or heard it from his Uncle, who heard
it from such and such."  Once you hear the story from the buddy, you then
say "Well I saw the black helicoptor/concentration camp/ when I was
driving down the road blah blah."
  
 10) BATF raids rumored to happen during the summer congressional recess
of 1995.  Didn't happen.

  11)  Supposedly Chuck Harder went belly up, and the assets of "For the
People" were purchased by Pat Choate, and Union Autoworker interests.  I
find this story comical becuase the Unions support the democrats, which
support every gun ban known to man.

  Oh well, waiting for the new crop of rumors.

Cheers,

RGates8254@AOL.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of
chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!  I know not what course other
may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!
                 ------Patrick Henry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------



From waffle@primenet.com Fri Sep 27 13:19:55 PDT 1996
Article: 36568 of misc.activism.militia
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 23:48:04 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
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Subject: Re: So What is the Latest Rumor(s) in circulation??  Did Chuck Harder go belly up?
Lines: 88


     AH-HA!

But: these things WOULD have happened, had their "existance" NOT been 
called to our attention...

Other famous rumors:

The Train derailment; the Olympics, OKC; Ruby Ridge, Waco, TWA, and the 
"militia threat", terrorism!

gander and goose...

waf-IDAHO]
********************************************************8


rgates8254@aol.com (RGates8254) wrote:
>
>  What is the latest rumors in circulation from talk radio and other so
>called reliable sources.  The last crop was:
>
>1)  Linda Thompson's Militia march on Washington.   Didn't happen
>
> 2) Nationwide BATF raids in March of 1995.  Didn't happen
>
>  3) October Surprise rumors, of impending action blah blah.  Didn't
>Happen
>
>  4)  Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush and now Clinton were all "going to
>declare martial law and impose a dictatorship on USA.  Didn't happen.
>
>  5) First Reagan, then the rumor mill started again under Bush that "an
>Executive Order was signed which created xxx concentration camps.  However
>when you ask the proponents of the rumor to supply the EO #, and date,
>they can't do it, but "they just know it was signed because they heard the
>story from such and such.  See next item.  Bottom line never happened.
>
>  6) Government going to set up concentration camps for the patriots. 
>Rumor was actually started by leftist black radicals in the 60s.  In the
>70s it was going to be the "Russians" who were going to invade USA, then
>build C camps.  In the 80s Reagan was going to do it, then Bush, then
>Clinton.  Bottom line is it didn't happen.
>
>  7)  The next rumor was a rich one.  It went to the effect of "Well the
>1980 (then read 1984, then 1988, then 1992, then 1994, and now 1996)
>election will be "the last free election in America."    Same rumor just
>revised and updated during each election year cycle.
>
>   8)  In a 60 minutes interview Janet Reno defined Patriots and gun
>owners as blah blah.  The reality of this one was that the story was
>picked up and printed (without being checked out) by some midwest militia
>publication.  They heard it from some unnamed woman in Florida who claimed
>to have heard it from such and such.
>
>  9)  I saw a Black Helicoptor blah blah.  But when you check the storys
>out you find that many of them don't check out, and are storys that people
>heard from short wave or talk radio, then repeat them in the first person.
> (Rule #1 in rumor mongering is you never say "Well I heard this from a
>buddy, who heard it from a Cousin, or heard it from his Uncle, who heard
>it from such and such."  Once you hear the story from the buddy, you then
>say "Well I saw the black helicoptor/concentration camp/ when I was
>driving down the road blah blah."
>  
> 10) BATF raids rumored to happen during the summer congressional recess
>of 1995.  Didn't happen.
>
>  11)  Supposedly Chuck Harder went belly up, and the assets of "For the
>People" were purchased by Pat Choate, and Union Autoworker interests.  I
>find this story comical becuase the Unions support the democrats, which
>support every gun ban known to man.
>
>  Oh well, waiting for the new crop of rumors.
>
>Cheers,
>
>RGates8254@AOL.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------------------------------------
>Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of
>chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!  I know not what course other
>may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!
>                 ------Patrick Henry
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------------------------------------------------------
>




From sybesma@netcom.com Fri Sep 27 13:19:58 PDT 1996
Article: 36591 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (0a9d419fa735ee500dace8bc352de6ad)
References: <843691683$4109@atype.com>
From: sybesma@netcom.com (Steven D. Sybesma)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
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Return-Path: sybesma@netcom.com
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 96 1:33:05 GMT
Message-ID: <843701585$4513@atype.com>
Subject: Re: So What is the Latest Rumor(s) in circulation??  Did Chuck Harder go belly up?
Lines: 124


On Wed, 25 Sep 96 22:48:03 GMT RGates8254 [rgates8254@aol.com] wrote:
:   What is the latest rumors in circulation from talk radio and other so
: called reliable sources.  The last crop was:
: 1)  Linda Thompson's Militia march on Washington.   Didn't happen
:  2) Nationwide BATF raids in March of 1995.  Didn't happen
:   3) October Surprise rumors, of impending action blah blah.  Didn't
: Happen
:   4)  Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush and now Clinton were all "going to
: declare martial law and impose a dictatorship on USA.  Didn't happen.
:   5) First Reagan, then the rumor mill started again under Bush that "an
: Executive Order was signed which created xxx concentration camps.  However
: when you ask the proponents of the rumor to supply the EO #, and date,
: they can't do it, but "they just know it was signed because they heard the
: story from such and such.  See next item.  Bottom line never happened.
:   6) Government going to set up concentration camps for the patriots. 
: Rumor was actually started by leftist black radicals in the 60s.  In the
: 70s it was going to be the "Russians" who were going to invade USA, then
: build C camps.  In the 80s Reagan was going to do it, then Bush, then
: Clinton.  Bottom line is it didn't happen.
:   7)  The next rumor was a rich one.  It went to the effect of "Well the
: 1980 (then read 1984, then 1988, then 1992, then 1994, and now 1996)
: election will be "the last free election in America."    Same rumor just
: revised and updated during each election year cycle.
:    8)  In a 60 minutes interview Janet Reno defined Patriots and gun
: owners as blah blah.  The reality of this one was that the story was
: picked up and printed (without being checked out) by some midwest militia
: publication.  They heard it from some unnamed woman in Florida who claimed
: to have heard it from such and such.
:   9)  I saw a Black Helicoptor blah blah.  But when you check the storys
: out you find that many of them don't check out, and are storys that people
: heard from short wave or talk radio, then repeat them in the first person.
:  (Rule #1 in rumor mongering is you never say "Well I heard this from a
: buddy, who heard it from a Cousin, or heard it from his Uncle, who heard
: it from such and such."  Once you hear the story from the buddy, you then
: say "Well I saw the black helicoptor/concentration camp/ when I was
: driving down the road blah blah."
:  10) BATF raids rumored to happen during the summer congressional recess
: of 1995.  Didn't happen.
:   11)  Supposedly Chuck Harder went belly up, and the assets of "For the
: People" were purchased by Pat Choate, and Union Autoworker interests.  I
: find this story comical becuase the Unions support the democrats, which
: support every gun ban known to man.
:   Oh well, waiting for the new crop of rumors.
: Cheers,
: RGates8254@AOL.
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
: -------------------------------------------------------
: Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of
: chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!  I know not what course other
: may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!
:                  ------Patrick Henry
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
: -------------------------------------------------------

I know you're a bit disgusted with the silly prognostications.  So am I.

I'm not given to silly conspiracy theories that are hatched before their time.

(I've got a brother-in-law who subscribes to them, even though I don't--
but still, we see pretty much eye to eye on all the basic stuff and I wouldn't
dare disown him for any minor difference of opinion.  We all need each other.)

However, there are volumes to be said about how much this country has slidden
down the slippery slope of pitiful, blinding apathy in the last 80 years.

And then there is the book that I consider the only true source of prophecy,
whose prognostications can only be spoken against at one's own peril, because
they are always right 100% of the time.

The Bible, of course.

Ben Franklin said it best (and I believe he was talking about anti-Christian,
godless Socialism when he said this, since the shoe fits perfectly):

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
 TEMPORARY safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Shame if there are any of his statues standing anywhere near a Fed building.

Shame also that our fellow Americans are to blame for the loss of liberty,
since sitting on the couch and watching a football game seems more important
to them than standing up for something and being diligent about keeping the
only precious resource there is in this world.  Our freedoms.

Even the college graduates that do so didn't learn a damn thing in school.

I also really like what that cool dude, Samuel Adams once said (among other
CHOICE quotes, another of which I've heard myself but is not in Bartlett's):

"...Let us remember that "if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our
liberty, we encourage it, and INVOLVE OTHERS in our doom."  It is a very 
serious consideration...that MILLIONS YET UNBORN may be the miserable sharers
of the event."

Anyway, don't let the understandable silliness bother you too much.

Stick with what you know is right and true based on your own observations.

God bless,

Steve
-- 
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
|****Steven D. Sybesma**Post Office Box 31456**Aurora, CO 80041-0456 USA****|
|           ****************Phone  1-303-363-6417****************           |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Freedom and Liberty weren't invented here.  We simply copied them from God.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|The aim of socialism is for mankind to divorce itself from reliance on God.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Trading your rights for promises of peace and security is like trusting a |
|stranger to sleep with your wife and believing nothing immoral will happen.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|America used to be about God & country---Now it's about Socialism & the NWO|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| We don't need Clinton's New Covenant.  The original one will do just fine.|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     The U.N. should read Acts 17:22-31 with some emphasis on verse 26     |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|From where we now stand, faithfulness to the Constitution would be progress|
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Join the U.S. Taxpayers Party  1-800-2 VETO IRS  http://www.ustaxpayers.org|
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From jameswv@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 29 10:45:41 PDT 1996
Article: 36899 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (d7d3a1958bb6b88862f16f5e0986deba)
From: jameswv@ix.netcom.com (james vallaster)
Organization: Netcom
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 15:03:21 GMT
Message-ID: <844009401$17358@atype.com>
Subject: ........UN swallowing 48 US national parks!
Lines: 157


Article: 230528
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: boo.rody@backwood.com (Boo Rody)
Subject: Dig the UN swallowing 48 US national parks!
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:40:00 GMT

This message was from lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson) to aen-news@a
originally in conference InternetE-MA on BACKWOOD {Back Woods)
and was forwarded to you by BOO RODY
                    ----------------------------------------
From: lindat@iquest.net (Linda Thompson)
To: aen-news@aen.org
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 96 09:12 EST
Subject: Dig the UN swallowing 48 US national parks!

>Date: Fri, 27 Sep 96 08:31:43 -0700
>From: 00000 
>Subject: Dig the UN swallowing 48 US national parks!


>Dig the UN swallowing 48 US national parks!
>From:  Jeff 
>Sent:  Friday, September 27, 1996 8:08 AM
>To:    MMCWU.recipients
>Subject:       Michigan Militia Corps Weekly Update (3-29)
>
>Please excuse any typos as this text is converted from a fax.
>
>
>Weekly Update - A publication of the Michigan Militia Corps
>Volume 3 Issue 29
>September 26, 1996
>
>The Taking of America
>by Karen Lee Bixman
>
>        "Welcome to Death Valley International Biosphere." This sign,
posted
>at the entrance of Death Valley National Park in the California
desert=
> alerts
>visitors that Death Valley is no longer a national park. Along with 48
other
>national park sites throughout the country, Death Valley has come
under the
>guise and control of a United Nations advisory board that now
supersedes the
>authority of the United States Park Service.
>        If this scenario sounds like an Orwellian plot, too
unbelievable to
>be true, realize that while the American people have busied themselves
in
>the essentials of raising their families and earning a living, our
>politicians in Washington have literally "given away the farm."
>        The Biosphere Reserve Program was the creation of the United
Nations
>Educational Scientific Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Conceived in
1971,=
> the
>objective of the program was to designate world-wide sites for
preservation
>and to protect the biodiversity of chosen sites on a global level.
>        As in the case of Death Valley, and other sites within the
United
>States, each biosphere is divided into three different sections:
>(1) Wilderness zones (2) Buffer zones, and (3) Cooperation zones. The
>wilderness area is designed to be the habitat of plants and animals;
human
>inhabitancy or human intrusion is forbidden. A buffer zone surrounds
the
>wilderness area: limited access is permitted within this zone. The
>Cooperation zone will be allocated as the only site where humans will
be
>allowed to live. The Sierra Club is but one of the 126 environmental
>organizations that work hand-in-hand with the United Nations to enact
the
>environmental-global agenda. UNESCO passed resolution 1296 in 1968,
which
>grants consultative status to organizations like the Sierra Club
which=
> allows
>them to participate in UN environmental activities. In December 1972,
UN
>Resolution 2997, which was adopted by the general assembly, created
the
>United Nations Environmental Program (UNEP). This program has remapped
the
>world into bioregions and is responsible for all of the environmental
policy
>changes that have occurred globally in the last 20 years. Ideas
spawned by
>the "chosen" 126 environmental groups are advanced by the UNEP.
>        It is the plan of the Sierra Club, the United Nations, and
those
>followers of the "Green Agenda," to actually re-structure our society,
as we
>now know it, and to relocate the human population of the United
States=
> within
>these bioregions. The time estimate given for the re-structuring is 50
to=
> 100
>years. Therefore, when private citizens are robbed of their land, be
it in
>the form of new legislation such as the Desert Wilderness Protection
Act, or
>through land taking by the EPA, realize that the redistribution of the
human
>population out of the "wilderness zones" has begun. [Ed. Note: It is
not=
> only
>begun, but is well advanced. According to a map in National
Geographic,=
> fully
>1/3 of the land in the United States belongs to the federal
government.]
>        According to the plan, each of these 21 bioregions will be
governed
>by bioregional councils. Although in its infancy stage, the setting up
of
>such a council is taking place in the U.S. South in conjunction with
the
>Smoky Mountain National Park in Tennessee. In effect, when these
councils
>come into play, local, state and national government will not be able
to
>intervene with their enforcement. It will be under the strong arm of
the UN
>that environmental organizations such as the Sierra Club, Natures'
>Conservancy and other green organizations will be given the green
light and
>will be the enforcement arm of these councils at the local level.
>
>        Another hoax perpetuated against the American people has been
the
>implementation of the World Heritage Treaty signed by Richard Nixon on
>November 21, 1972, ratified by the Senate and entered into force on
December
>17, 1975, this UN treaty was drafted during the general conference of
UNESCO
>in 1972.
>        It addresses the cultural and natural heritage of lands
throughout
(Continued to next message)

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*** "GOVERNMENTAL   CORRUPTION   MUST   BE   CHALLENGED" ***        
					"Homesteadr" James Vallaster
				          2nd Amendment status militiaman
					 a loner until the plot thickens
					  jameswv@ix.netcom.com
					      2943 Oak Court
					      Granbury, Texas


From jameswv@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 29 10:45:42 PDT 1996
Article: 36906 of misc.activism.militia
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (c2e49abaa3bd72fb87ca586227342d33)
From: jameswv@ix.netcom.com (james vallaster)
Organization: Netcom
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Sep 29 10:11:06 AM CDT 1996
Return-Path: news@ix.netcom.com
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sgi.com!uhog.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 96 15:18:32 GMT
Message-ID: <844010312$17443@atype.com>
Subject: ......UN swallowing 48 national parks part#4
Lines: 61


Article: 230531
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: boo.rody@backwood.com (Boo Rody)
Subject: Dig the UN swallowi 04/04
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 08:40:00 GMT

(Continued from previous message)

>further info.]
>
>
>Jeff S.
>PFC
>CMRM, 15th Brigade - Kent county
>
>Central Michigan Regional Militia Home Page: http://mmc.cns.net
>
>"...Stage III...would proceed to a point where no state would have the
>military power to challenge the progressively stregthened U.N. peace
force
>...The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited...All other
armaments
>would be destroyed..." -Department of State publication number 7277
>
>
>
>
Kind regards,

Linda Thompson

********************  V  ***************************
       DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER.
***************************************************
Dr. Linda Thompson
Attorney at Law
Chairman, American Justice Federation
Internet:  lindat@iquest.net

****************************************************
       Remember Waco.
  The Murderers are still free.
**************************************************** 
Have you seen this yet?

    http://206.55.8.10/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum



---
  OLXWin 1.00b  Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic


*** "GOVERNMENTAL   CORRUPTION   MUST   BE   CHALLENGED" ***        
					"Homesteadr" James Vallaster
				          2nd Amendment status militiaman
					 a loner until the plot thickens
					  jameswv@ix.netcom.com
					      2943 Oak Court
					      Granbury, Texas



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