The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/s/stein.michael/1996/stein.0996


From mstein@access5.digex.net Sun Sep  1 13:42:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61509 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The seventh, eighth, and ninth confessions of Kurt Gerstein
Date: 1 Sep 1996 09:55:04 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 33
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In article <5090ij$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>========
>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>Subject: Gerstein confesses
>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:52:54 GMT
>
>
>	again and again and again 
>
>4/26/45: 
>     The date SS officer Kurt Gerstein's first two (of at least six)
>"confessions."

[snip]

    Then of course we have the confession to the Swedish diplomat, and to
two friends of his - during the war, before any of the confessions that
Mr. Giwer is apparently trying to suggest are fishy simply because there
are multiple versions.

    But we cannot expect the confessed liar Matt Giwer to show any honesty
and deal with the _full_ story of Gerstein's confessions, including to
whom he gave them.  (Hint: it wasn't those nasty Russians.)

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Sun Sep  1 13:42:15 PDT 1996
Article: 61515 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: British charm in action
Date: 1 Sep 1996 10:00:36 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <50c4u4$2j8@access5.digex.net>
References: <5091cs$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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In article <5091cs$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>========
>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>Subject: A camp is a camp of course of course
>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 09:43:59 GMT
>
>
>Brutal Mistreatment
>
>On April 15, 1945, Belsen's commanders turned over the camp to British
>troops, who lost no time
>mistreating the SS camp personnel. The Germans were beaten with rifle
>butts, kicked, and
>stabbed with bayonets. Most were shot or worked to death. (note 22) 
>
>British journalist Alan Moorehead described the treatment of some of
>the
>camp personnel shortly
>after the takeover: (note 23) 
>
>     As we approached the cells of the SS guards, the [British]
>sergeant's language
>     become ferocious. "We had had an interrogation this morning," the
>captain said. 'I'm
>     afraid they are not a pretty sight.' ... The sergeant unbolted
>the
>first door and ... strode
>     into the cell, jabbing a metal spike in front of him. "Get up,"
>he
>shouted. "Get up. Get
>     up, you dirty bastards." There were half a dozen men lying or
>half
>lying on the floor.
>     One or two were able to pull themselves erect at once. The man
>nearest me, his shirt
>     and face spattered with blood, made two attempts before he got on
>to his knees and
>     then gradually on to his feet. He stood with his arms stretched
>out
>in front of him,
>     trembling violently. 
>
>     "Come on. Get up," the sergeant shouted [in the next cell]. The
>man
>was lying in his
>     blood on the floor, a massive figure with a heavy head and
>bedraggled beard ... "Why
>     don't you kill me?" he whispered. "Why don't you kill me? I can't
>stand it any more."

    Fascinating that this German soldier, who has been through such a
brutal experience, apparently says this in English.

    Even more fascinating that Matt Giwer suddenly introduces eyewitness
testimony as evidence after having dismissed it for so long.

    But what can we expect from Matt Giwer, who has absolutely no honesty?
Why, he has even admitted that he is perfectly willing to tell lies to
suit his purposes.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Sun Sep  1 13:42:16 PDT 1996
Article: 61529 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Always believe Russina Sources
Date: 1 Sep 1996 10:08:24 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <50c5co$303@access5.digex.net>
References: <50926n$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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In article <50926n$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:

[many samples of Russian evidence snipped]

>Then there's of course human lampshades,

    Buzzer there.  Found at Buchenwald by the Americans, confirmed by an
American army pathology laboratory as tanned human skin. 

    Physical evidence.  But of course Matt Giwer will continue to lie
about it and say a) it doesn't t exist, and b) came from the Russians. But
then, Mr. Giwer makes the Russians look honest, as he himself openly
admitted in an unguarded moment.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep  9 19:33:29 PDT 1996
Article: 63927 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: and again
Date: 9 Sep 1996 17:15:01 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <5121cl$mhp@access5.digex.net>
References: <5113jh$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <5113jh$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	I really do wish to have the REAL names and process serving addresses
>of all of the people who wish to be named in a lawsuit against Nizkor
>due to your participation in Nizkor and support of Nizkor.  
>
>	I do not want the wishwashy here.  I want those who are part of
>everything Nizkor is trying to accomplish without exception.  
>
>	Now what I want you to do if you are really serious and have had a
>chance to think about it is to email me your request to be named.  But
>you do have to provide a real name and a real address.  If you do not
>do that then you are not serious.  

    I note that Matt Giwer has not posted his address for the abuse of
process countersuit.  I guess he is not serious.


>	If you do this you can show your solidarity with Nizkor.  
>
>	I am seriously soliciting names and addresses to be named in this
>lawsuit.  
>
>	My position of course is that Nizkor is maligning the good name of
>people.

    Matt Giwer has no standing to sue on those grounds.  He certainly does
not have a good name.  He has openly confessed that he is a liar. 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 10 07:19:03 PDT 1996
Article: 64049 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Date: 9 Sep 1996 16:50:08 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <511vu0$lg6@access5.digex.net>
References:  <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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In article <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:56:56 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
>>order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".
>
>>[...]
>
>>
>
>># In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
>># trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
>># Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
>># Jews,  representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
>># gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
>
>>
>
>>Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is 
>>trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such 
>>gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.
>
>>Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
>>he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
>>request is to spam the group by reposting something totally 
>>unrelated. 
>
>>But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
>>miserable liar like Giwer.
>
>	Actually I was posting a miserable lie accepted by the IMT.

    Now this is really interesting.

    The IMT was the first war crimes trial for Nazis.

    Yet the original article clearly said that the physician was
testifying at a trial of 45 men and women for crimes at Belsen and
Auschwitz.  That sounds like the Belsen trial, which was later.

    Nevertheless, Giwer claims this came from the IMT.  I guess, contrary
to something he said a few months ago, time is _not_ something we all
share.


>	I posted the kind of "truth" that was accepted by the IMT.

    We see the kind of "truth" that is posted by Matt Giwer.  The IMT
could see into the future.  Amazing.


>	I gave the source of a lie that was approved by the IMT.  

    Title and page number, please.  Cue up the theme music from
"Jeopardy...."


>	And as you know, the bullshit at the IMT is the only basis for the
>claims of the holocaust.  

    Actually, I don't know such a thing.  And neither does Matt Giwer, who
seems to know very little about anything.

    Except how to lie.  He knows how to do that.  But even that is not
something he does very well - he's much too easy to catch.  See the
examples below. 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 10 12:44:20 PDT 1996
Article: 64158 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Allegiance is to Israel First
Date: 10 Sep 1996 15:01:37 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <514duh$e54@access5.digex.net>
References: <5124m5$rir@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <512gb8$315@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <512gb8$315@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Kurt Stele  wrote:
>
>The exterminationists established a "no rules" game long ago. 
>Exterminationists are still be far the more offensive with name-calling,
>probably by a ratio of at least 5 to 1.  Maybe Rich Graves would care to
>index this.
>
>If the revisionists declared a "no name-calling" rule, then I and probably
>all deniers on this newsgroup could abide by it -- I doubt the
>exterminationists could, especially people like Keren and Rosenberg.  
>
>After I wrote my piece, the name-calling continued.  
>
>Whenever you or any other exterminationists want to play clean and declare
>this a "no-name calling zone" I'll sign up.  I'm sure Giwer would do the
>same.  
>
>I've already advocated this.  
>
>But it would probably never work, as it would deny the exterminationists
>one of their main and only tools.

   I'm perfectly willing to live by a "no namecalling" rule with anyone
else willing to do so.  But I think we need more than this.  How about a
"no deceptive editing" rule, a "no distorted paraphrase" rule, and a "no
concealing inconvenient evidence" rule, and - most importantly - a "no
lying" rule?

    It would probably never work, as it would deny the deniers their main
and only tools.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 10 13:22:02 PDT 1996
Article: 64171 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Never believe Giwer
Date: 10 Sep 1996 13:56:48 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <514a50$bpv@access5.digex.net>
References: <322CA5E8.5674@unb.ca> <50vnsn$h4d@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <511du9$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <511du9$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:58:31 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>wrote:
>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>>[About the two shrunken heads of Buchenwald inmates (see also
>> on Nizkor's site, .../camps/buchenwald/images)]
>
>># The shrunken heads of the "prisoners" were returned to the
>># museum's South American exhibit from where they were borrowed.  
>> 
>>Will you do us a favor and post the source for this amazing
>>claim, Matty?
>	
>	It has been posted.
>
>	Look it up in DejaNews a you and your fellow hollohuggers say.  

    Then Mr. Giwer should have no trouble giving the DejaNews URL or a
search strategy, as I do when I refer to DejaNews.  Why is he never able
to do this?

    I searched on "shrunken" + "museum" and found nothing but Giwer's
unsupported assertion.  I tried a couple of other combinations as well.
Same results.

    But then, that is only what I expected.  After all, Matt Giwer has
openly admitted that he is willing to lie to achieve his ends.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

    Please, don't be shy.  Any "revisionist" who can find this alleged
article even naming the museum these heads were supposedly returned to
(let alone giving evidence that this was the case), share the information
with us.  Give the DejaNews URL or produce the article itself.

    Psychic prediction: nobody will be able to find this article.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 10 15:03:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64192 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A correction
Date: 10 Sep 1996 14:06:17 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <514amp$c67@access5.digex.net>
References:  <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <511vu0$lg6@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <511vu0$lg6@access5.digex.net>,
Michael P. Stein  wrote:
>In article <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>>	Actually I was posting a miserable lie accepted by the IMT.
>
>    Now this is really interesting.
>
>    The IMT was the first war crimes trial for Nazis.
>
>    Yet the original article clearly said that the physician was
>testifying at a trial of 45 men and women for crimes at Belsen and
>Auschwitz.  That sounds like the Belsen trial, which was later.

    My error.  I thought the Belsen trial was in 1949, but that is merely
when the book was published.  Daniel Keren informs me the trial itself was
in 1945.  However, he confirmed that it was a British affair. 


-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 10 19:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 64264 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: reviewing the bidding
Date: 10 Sep 1996 16:24:49 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <514iqh$hdi@access5.digex.net>
References: <50pa04$qvp@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <50pa04$qvp@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	Despite repeated requests the nearest bit of physical evidence for the
>holocaust has been internment camps in Poland.

    This is false.  Nazi documents are physical evidence.  Giwer knows
this, he just lies about it.  He is a self-confessed liar.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


>	We have one holohugger claiming to have megs of physical evidence but
>he refuses to post it publically (certainly adding to his credibility
>only to holohuggers.)

    And how is this any different from Giwer refusing to post his
evidence, saying "It has been posted, look on DejaNews" (but nobody else
can find it on DejaNews)?  Remember, Matt Giwer is a self-confessed liar.


>	We have the great Nizkor without the slightest bit of physical
>evidence but despite being the holocaust junk cellar has not the
>slightest bit of physical evidence.  

    Documents.  Cyanide traces.  A gas-tight door with a protective grille
over the glass - on the _inside_.  (Why does the glass need to be
protected from the _inside_?  The lice are going to break out?)


>	There has yet to be the slighest physical evidence for the holocaust
>presented here or on any of the holocaust sites, not a bit of it,
>nothing.  

    Giwer hopes that if he repeats his lies, they will become true.


>	Yet the holohuggers here continue to claim they have physical evidence
>but they will not post it.  

    No, Giwer, just continues to claim that there is no physical evidence
despite the documents which have been posted.  Two samples: Bischoff said
there was a "Vergasungskeller" in Birkenau.  Becker wrote to Rauff about
the gassing vans; Rauff confirmed that he received such a document in a
deposition given in Chile.  (In other words, far from those nasty
Soviets.)  That is physical evidence corroborated by testimony. 


> Bottom line, in case you have missed it, there is ZERO, NADA, ZILCH
> physicla evidence for any holocaust.

    Bottom line, in case you have missed it: Giwer is a liar.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 11 14:08:03 PDT 1996
Article: 64439 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: 11 Sep 1996 15:18:17 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <51739p$2vk@access5.digex.net>
References: <50cufo$2lp@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <50jr53$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <50p6mn$b7g@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <50tkir$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <50tkir$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Sep 96 18:49:58 GMT, abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele
>Abels) wrote:
>
>>But thank you very much for stating that exterminating a whole nation IS
>>a legitimate act.
>
>	It has been done so many times in history it is difficult to consider
>it illegitimate.  

    All the claims Mr. Giwer has made about the Nuremberg trials (for a
number of which, by the way, he has not a scrap of physical evidence) have
also been done many times in history - torture, forgery, lying, etc.  Even
if we pretend that he is correct in all his claims, it appears that he
must now concede that the Nuremberg trials are difficult to consider
illegitimate. 

    But then, we must always remember that Mr. Giwer is a hypocrite and
liar (self-confessed, even) with absolutely no interest in the truth.  For
his confession of lying, as well as many other examples of his dishonesty,
see: 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 11 16:13:52 PDT 1996
Article: 64457 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg's "Yiddish" Debating-Style
Date: 11 Sep 1996 15:46:37 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <5174ut$4bh@access5.digex.net>
References: <5105gc$8ih@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <5105gc$8ih@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Kurt Stele  wrote:
>"The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled
>off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if
>indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing,
>except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous
>day.  [sounds like Keren. K.S.]

    Actually, it sounds like Giwer.  Notice how he responds (or, more
accurately, fails to) when challenged for a source for his assertions.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 12 07:34:09 PDT 1996
Article: 64579 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GIWER: A true "revisionist"
Date: 10 Sep 1996 16:46:37 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <514k3d$ia2@access5.digex.net>
References:  <512h3s$3b7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <512h3s$3b7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Kurt Stele  wrote:
>
>Now go back to work and find me a nazi gas chamber somewhere.  Step on it.

    Been there, done that.  Try Birkenau - Bischoff wrote to Kammler about
it in '43.  What part of "Vergasungskeller" don't you understand?


-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 12 16:55:30 PDT 1996
Article: 64811 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Date: 11 Sep 1996 15:41:48 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <5174ls$44r@access5.digex.net>
References: <50iivg$lgq@news.enter.net> <50t0nj$19d@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <50t0nj$19d@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>>  
>>  >  Must I always do your work for you?  It is obvious that Himmler is
>>  >  referring here to the warfare with the Partisans.

    If this is the case, surely you can provide documentation that the
wives and children of non-Jewish partisans were frequently killed?  That
would be a logical consequence of your interpretation.


>>  >  This explanation
>>  >  ]has been posted often enough.
>>  
>>  	Your explanation simply does not convince.

    Try convincing me of your explanation by providing the evidence
requested above.


>>  >  Now, how about answering a
>>  >  question for us:  who found these tapes, where did they find them,
>>  >  when did they find them, and under what circumstances?  Inquiring
>>  >  minds want to know.....
>>  
>>  	What difference does that make?  Are you stating that the tapes are 
>>  not a speech given by Himmler?
>>  
>>  	If so, there is a little proposition outstanding  . . . . .
>>  
>>  	--YFE
>>  
>>>>>
>I am suggesting that they may have been tampered with.

    I suggest you read:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-9-2.html

Some interesting corroboration there.


    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 01:07:47 PDT 1996
Article: 64921 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: real showerheads
Date: 13 Sep 1996 01:29:59 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <51argn$aim@access5.digex.net>
References: <506aar$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <5096te$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50u0ub$kmu@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <519ghd$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519ghd$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	Sgt. Schultz,  it is a matter of record that you will mislead people
>to the point of lying to attempt to support your precious holocaust.  
>	
>	This is no exception.  

    It is a matter of record that Matt Giwer openly admitted that he is
quite willing to lie when it suits his purposes.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 01:07:48 PDT 1996
Article: 64926 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!icarus.lon.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Jewish corn flakes
Date: 13 Sep 1996 01:47:23 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <51ashb$b12@access5.digex.net>
References: <50fm22$kl2@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <50ousl$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <50pkeq$3fb@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <50v27t$49p@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:64926 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:540

In article <50v27t$49p@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 6 Sep 1996 17:45:14 +0100, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:
>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>>On 5 Sep 1996 22:10:17 +0100, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:
>>>>	If anyone else made these claims, I would expect them to at least try
>>>>to provide evidence. But with a track-record like his, Matt Giwer is the
>>>>_last_ person I'd expect to even have evidence!
>>>	It has been posted several times.  You know where to look it up.  
>
>>	Where would that be, Matt? Even if you are just referring to DejaNews,
>>it's still a big site. 
>
>	Tough shit.  Holohuggers started telling me to look it up there.

    But when I do, I give a URL or a keyword search set that gets the
correct document or set of documents.

    Matt Giwer omitted that little fact.  But it is no surprise, as he
is a frequent and self-confessed liar.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


>So go find it.  

    Your claim, your burden of proof.  Sorry about that, liar.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 01:07:48 PDT 1996
Article: 64932 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: another failure
Date: 13 Sep 1996 01:11:30 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <51aqe2$aa9@access5.digex.net>
References: <519s0q$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519s0q$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	The liar Ken McVay has failed again along with his gang of
>holohuggers.  
>
>	The animals have failed again with their lies.  
>
>	They will do anything to silence the truth.  
>
>	They are truly animals, all the holohuggers.  
>
>	They have no integrity. 
>
>	They have no morals. 
>
>	They lie as it suits their needs.
>
>	It is clear they are all holohuggers, immoral liars all of them.  

    Evidently Matt Giwer has multiple personality disorder and talks about
himself in the third person. 

    He is a proven and self-confessed liar.  Refer to the URLs below for
the full documentation.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 01:07:49 PDT 1996
Article: 64941 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: 13 Sep 1996 02:02:09 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <51atd1$ba4@access5.digex.net>
References: <50c2d8$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <511658$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3234977C.2FB7@unb.ca> <519gi3$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519gi3$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 19:17:32 -0300, Keith Morrison 
>wrote:
>>So where did you go to university again?  Why wasn't a brilliant person such
>>as yourself not given a full scholarship at, say, Harvard or MIT?  Unlike a 
>>friend of mine and her younger sister.
>
>	I did not apply.  

    At least he was bright enough not to waste a stamp.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 01:07:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64943 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The footnote heard from
Date: 13 Sep 1996 01:28:22 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <51ardm$agm@access5.digex.net>
References: <50sri5$96d@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <32322E71.285C@serv.net> <519gh7$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519gh7$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 02:24:49 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
> wrote:
>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Cry of a Deportee
>>> 
>>> A 1940 Gaullist veteran of the Free French Forces (FFL), I was
>>> arrested in October, 1943,
>>> and deported for 18 months to Buchenwald, then to the hell of Dora,
>>> where thousands of
>>> French deportees lost their lives in the underground factories of V1
>>> and V2. I returned
>>> disabled.
>
>>[snip]
>>> 
>>> Let them know, too, that in France, there were about 250,000
>>> deportees, of which about
>>> 25,000 were French Jews. Between 80,000 and 100,000 returned, of which
>>> about 15,000
>>> were Jews.
>
>>Estimates of Jewish losses for France, from Nora Levin, _The 
>>Holocaust_ (New York: Schocken, 1973):
>>	
>>	Estimates by Gerald Reitlinger, _The Final Solution_, 1953: 
>>		Low: 60,000     High: 65,000
>
>>	Losses Estimated by Raul Hilberg, _The Destruction of the European 
>>		Jews_, 1961: 70,000
>
>	I quoted fact, not fiction.  You have more deaths than deportees.  
>>[...]
>
>	Hilberg is not an historian.  Having an axe to grind makes it less
>credible.

    And Giwer's source is neither a historian or a demographer.  And he
has an axe to grind, it seems. 

    Why are Pernot's figures correct and Hilberg's wrong?

    BECAUSE!  MATT!  GIWER!  SAYS!  SO!


[snip]

>>Odd to see Mr. Giwer supporting the importance of witness testimony.
>>> 
>>> Gaston Pernot
>>> Doctor of Law
>>> Commander of the Legion of Honor, Paris
>>> ("Le Figaro," Friday, May 3, 1996)
>
>>[lengthy, tedious, and ungrammatical sig snipped]
>
>>Laurinda Stryker
>
>	And the best you have is one frigging news article.  

    ROTFL!

    This started with Mr. Giwer quoting - you guessed it - one frigging
news article!

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Giwer.


>	Actually the issue is that the French, unlike the Jews, are mature
>enough to put it behind them.  

    Matt Giwer, it must always be remembered, is a liar.  He even admitted
it once in an unguarded moment.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 09:39:05 PDT 1996
Article: 64964 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nice try, little shit holohuggers
Date: 13 Sep 1996 01:33:38 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <51arni$ani@access5.digex.net>
References: <519ldo$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519ldo$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	You have failed again with your lies.  
>
>	Are you going to keep up your lying?  
>
>	Of course you are.
>
>	Harrass everyone in sight, family in particular, if that fails, the
>ISP.  
>
>	You are all scum of the earth liars.  

    For documentation on who the real scum of the earth liar is, see:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 13 09:39:05 PDT 1996
Article: 64965 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: real shit try
Date: 13 Sep 1996 01:34:58 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <51arq2$ap9@access5.digex.net>
References: <519gek$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519gek$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	Want to try it again?  
>
>	You folks are some of the most accomplished liars I have ever come
>across.  But not quite good enough.

    Mr. Giwer should look in a mirror.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 16 09:13:10 PDT 1996
Article: 66061 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: 16 Sep 1996 09:06:12 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <51jjc4$9gq@access5.digex.net>
References: <3226edad.390461@news.pacificnet.net> <5113lu$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3234956B.7617@unb.ca> <519ohi$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519ohi$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Mon, 09 Sep 1996 19:08:43 -0300, Keith Morrison 
>wrote:
>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>>> >:      Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this
>>> >: holocaust of yours?
>>> 
>>> >Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this Dresden
>>> >firestorm of yours?
>>> 
>>>         I have posted it.  Look it up.
>
>>No you didn't.  You mentioned some clearly forged piece of alledged film
>>supposedly taken from airplanes with no evidence of what it is they might
>>be doing and where or when.
>
>	It has been posted.  Look it up, braindead holohugger.  

    No physical evidence for a firestorm caused by Allied bombing was
posted, only a coincidence.  The only evidence for the firestorm (as
opposed to a very large fire like the Chicago or London fires) was
hysterical eyewitness testimony.  Matt Giwer is lying.  Again.  That's the
best he can do.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 16 11:00:03 PDT 1996
Article: 66074 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: 16 Sep 1996 12:24:55 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <51jv0n$jtk@access5.digex.net>
References: <51akd1$l33@news.enter.net> <51cc1h$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51cc1h$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
>>  >  Thre purpose of the original thread was to discuss wether Hoess was tortured
>>  >  and beaten into signing a false confession which ends with the words that he
>>  >  signs under no compulsion. 
>>  
>>  
>>  	Then please present some evidence.
>>  
>>  
>>   After his beatings and torments at the hands of the
>>  >  British, he was then shipped on to the Poles and Soviets, where undoubtedly he
>>  >  was treated with great tenderness and during which time he wrote his 
>>  "autobiography"
>>  >  again "without compulsion". 
>>  
>>  	Do you have any evidence that he was beaten while in Polish hands?
>>  
>>  
>>  	You have nothing except you suspicion.  That counts for nothing.
>>  
>>  	--YFE
>>  
>>  
>>>>>

>I would like to refer you to the statements made by Bernhard Clark
>concerning the treatment meted out to Hoess and his family, both before
>and upon capture.  You may read them in Rupert Butler's "Legions of
>Death", [...]

    Sorry, that is eyewitness testimony.  By revisionist rules, that is
just as worthless as Hoess's confession.  There are SS testimonies
untainted by even a plausible suspicion of torture, such as Franz
Suchomel's to Claude Lanzmann, or Rauff's deposition in Chile, which
revisionists reject.  Therefore Clark's statements must similarly be
dismissed. 

    Or do you have a double standard?
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 16 14:01:38 PDT 1996
Article: 66116 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Myshkin Lies Again (so what else is new?)
Date: 16 Sep 1996 14:27:33 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <51k66l$oao@access5.digex.net>
References: <3226edad.390461@news.pacificnet.net> <5113lu$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <512t2m$krq@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <519oib$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519oib$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 10 Sep 1996 05:07:34 GMT, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard
>Schultz) wrote:
>
>>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>>: >Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence for this Dresden
>>: >firestorm of yours?
>
>>: 	I have posted it.  Look it up.  
>
>>No you haven't.  And you know that.  Neither have you dealt with the 
>>eyewitness testimony to physically impossible events (e.g. melting people)
>>that happened during this so-called firestorm.  And you know that too.
>>But keep up the good work.  You certainly are an amusing chap.
>
>	I have posted it.
>
>	Look it up, stupid.  

    Give the URL, liar.  You do know what a URL is, do you not?  Perhaps I
should give some examples to help you.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

    You claim it was posted.  Burden of proof is yours.  But you know
that.  Post the URL or admit you are once again lying.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 16 18:39:22 PDT 1996
Article: 66156 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: 16 Sep 1996 09:02:27 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <51jj53$9bt@access5.digex.net>
References:  <519og1$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <32398128.5B54@gryn.org> <51e7o1$lo8@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51e7o1$lo8@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:43:36 -0400, Alec Grynspan 
>wrote:
>>If you ask for [physical evidence], you'll get it.
>
>	I can do like OBC did.  Request information, wait a couple months, and
>then report the answer as a mail bomb.  

    Perhaps Mr. Giwer will post the alleged request from Ken McVay which
could possibly have been legitimately answered by the mail which was sent. 

    Then again, given that he is a proven and self-confessed liar, perhaps
he won't.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 16 20:33:54 PDT 1996
Article: 66178 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Never believe Giwer
Date: 16 Sep 1996 12:15:35 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <51juf7$ji5@access5.digex.net>
References: <514a50$bpv@access5.digex.net> <51arnj$np2@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51arnj$np2@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>>   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>>  In article <511du9$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>>  Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>>  >On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:58:31 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>>  >wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>  >
>>  >>[About the two shrunken heads of Buchenwald inmates (see also
>>  >> on Nizkor's site, .../camps/buchenwald/images)]
>>  >
>>  >># The shrunken heads of the "prisoners" were returned to the
>>  >># museum's South American exhibit from where they were borrowed.  
>>  >> 
>>  >>Will you do us a favor and post the source for this amazing
>>  >>claim, Matty?
>>  >	
>>  >	It has been posted.
>>  >
>>  >	Look it up in DejaNews a you and your fellow hollohuggers say.  
>>  
>>      Then Mr. Giwer should have no trouble giving the DejaNews URL or a
>>  search strategy, as I do when I refer to DejaNews.  Why is he never able
>>  to do this?
>>  
>>      I searched on "shrunken" + "museum" and found nothing but Giwer's
>>  unsupported assertion.  I tried a couple of other combinations as well.
>>  Same results.
>>  
>>      But then, that is only what I expected.  After all, Matt Giwer has
>>  openly admitted that he is willing to lie to achieve his ends.
>>  
>>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
>>  http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
>>  
>>      Please, don't be shy.  Any "revisionist" who can find this alleged
>>  article even naming the museum these heads were supposedly returned to
>>  (let alone giving evidence that this was the case), share the information
>>  with us.  Give the DejaNews URL or produce the article itself.
>>  
>>      Psychic prediction: nobody will be able to find this article.
>>  -- 
>>  Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>>  POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>>  Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.
>>  
>>>>>
>Non-Psychic answer:   You may find it in : Vorsicht!  Faelschung!, 
>published by FZ-Verlag, Munich, pgs.  200-202.  According to this source:
>
>"The Lampshade Lies count among the most oft repeated anti-German
>atrocity accusations. [...]

    What you posted is interesting, and I'll check it out when I have the
time, but there are three short points I wish to make:

    1) Exculpating Ilse Koch personally is not the same thing as proving
       no such things existed, period.

    2) The topic was shrunken heads, not lampshades.  Please read more
       carefully.

    3) The question was where to find the post that the liar Matt Giwer
       claimed gave the name of the museum from which the heads were
       taken and to which they were returned.  (We'll get into proof
       later.  Right now I want to see if anyone can even find this
       post that only Mr. Giwer seems to have ever seen, even if it
       only contains unsubstantiated assertions.)


    Now, can you find such a post?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Remember, the subject is shrunken heads and museums, not lampshades.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 16 20:33:55 PDT 1996
Article: 66190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: real shit try
Date: 16 Sep 1996 12:19:10 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <51julu$jmb@access5.digex.net>
References: <519gek$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <51arq2$ap9@access5.digex.net> <51c6h7$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51c6h7$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 13 Sep 1996 01:34:58 -0400, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P.
>Stein) wrote:
>
>>In article <519gek$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
>>Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>>>	Want to try it again?  
>>>
>>>	You folks are some of the most accomplished liars I have ever come
>>>across.  But not quite good enough.
>
>>    Mr. Giwer should look in a mirror.
>
>	What a clever reasponse.  What a juvenile response.  

    But it is an honest one.  I would much rather be a juvenile truthful
person than an adult liar.  Matt Giwer is a liar.  He admitted as much.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 08:56:36 PDT 1996
Article: 66322 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: no response?
Date: 17 Sep 1996 09:26:23 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <51m8tv$mh9@access5.digex.net>
References: <51l38g$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51l38g$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	In the last two days I have posted twenty or so messages contrary 
>to the holocaust myth and not one response from he holohuggers.

    Now this is interesting.  New posting host?  But you were telling us
you had shown Netcom that all the charges against you were lies.  So why
the switch?  You wouldn't have been lying (again), would you?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html



> It is good that the holohuggers have remained silent on the matter. 
>They would embarrass themselves were they to object. 

    Actually, there have been some responses - looks like your new
newsfeed is slower.  There is also the fact that you're unemployed and
have more time.  But you know that.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 14:50:39 PDT 1996
Article: 66405 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: 17 Sep 1996 17:20:46 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <51n4ne$c84@access5.digex.net>
References: <32317188.671677@news.pacificnet.net> <323221FE.168E@serv.net> <519gg4$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519gg4$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Sep 1996 01:31:42 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
> wrote:
>
>>tom moran wrote:
>>>         Also obvious is the womens camp in the righthand background, with
>>> the fence that is clearly visible just 60 or 70 feet away. We can see
>>> right through this fence to the womens barracks, which are just
>>> another 60 or 70 feet away.
>
>>[snip]
>
>>Again, this is completely consistent with testimony.  See, for 
>>example, Sara Nomberg-Przytyk, _Auschwitz: True Tales from a Grotesque 
>>Land_, ed. Eli Pfefferkorn and David H. Hirsch (Chapel Hill: 
>>University of North Carolina Press, 1985).
>
>	It is clearly contrary to the claims that gassing was done in secret
>or have you missed that?  

    The Giwer-troll evidently thinks that gassing was said to have been
carried out right there on the train platform or in the middle of the
road.

    Or he's just being his usual dishonest self.  After all, he's even
openly admitted that he is willing to lie to achieve his ends. 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 17:40:14 PDT 1996
Article: 66411 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: 17 Sep 1996 17:28:19 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <51n55j$clt@access5.digex.net>
References: <32317188.671677@news.pacificnet.net> <519gg1$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519gg1$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:00:19 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>
>>	In the Holocaust book "Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp" we
>>are given a photo with the caption: "Arrival and selection of
>>Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz, 1944. Credit: Yad Vashim, Jeruselem".
>
>	The "credit" should go to the photographer or his employer.  In this
>case the credit goes to Yad Vashim for the creative caption.  Of
>course it begs the questions, how do you know they are Jews? how do
>you know they are Hungarian? and how do you know what is going on?  

    This one is easy.  Photos from "The Auschwitz Album" were found by a
Hungarian Jewish survivor who came in on that train and recognized a
number of people from her village.  As for how one knows that people in
such pictures are Jews, I guess Mr. Giwer's steel-sieve memory has
conveniently forgotten the fact that the Nazis required Jews to wear a
Jewish star on their clothes identifying them as such.

    Confessed liar Matt Giwer never did bother to look at the pictures in
the book before coming out with howlers such as that the people were
probably heading for the stairs down from the train platform.  (The
platform is ground level, as he would have known had he looked.)  He also
maintained that people told by men with guns to walk along a road with
barbed wire on both sides might decide to go off in any random direction
instead, perhaps even straight through the barbed wire.

    But what else would one expect from a person who is not only a proven
liar, but even a self-confessed one?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 17:40:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66433 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a chamber of cards
Date: 17 Sep 1996 19:21:23 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <51nbpj$jr2@access5.digex.net>
References: <51f2r4$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51f2r4$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	Now that Keren and company have clearly admitted that the LKs had
>multiple rooms

    Excuse me, but where was this?

    The LKs were multiple rooms in the Kremas.


>and that only one of those rooms was used as a gas
>chamber it is time to move on.  It certainly takes a long time to get
>things through the thick skulls of some people.  

    We will not know how long until Mr. Giwer finally understands the
layout of the Kremas, as shown in the Bauleitung construction drawings.
Nearly nine months since he got here, and he has not got it right even
yet.


>	Let us take those "induction" columns.  They were supposed to have
>been evenly spaced some 30 feet apart down the center line of the
>building.  They were supposed to have been where the ZB was put in.  
>
>	But now that we know the "gas chamber" was only one room inside the
>building the fiction of those "induction columns" is readily revealed.
>They are not all over the "gas chamber" and no two of them could have
>functioned as the two necessary columns for the one room that are
>required by most of the stories.

    BECAUSE!  I!  SAY!  SO!  (The usual Giwer standard of evidence.)


>	To go further the much vaunted ventilation system (of which neither
>specifications

    Wrong, correspondence describing the system can be found in "Anatomy
of the Auschwitz Death Camp."  Mr. Giwer is just making this up as he
goes.  (At one point a wooden fan was called out, though it was later
changed to a metal one.  It does sound as if someone was worried about
corrosion.  I wonder why?)


>nor fans have been discovered) does not deal with that
>one room at all but rather the entire complex of rooms.  It is not
>particular directed at the one "gas chamber."

    Wrong again; the largest LK (the "Undressing Room") was slated for a
ventilation system at first but it was not actually installed.  And that
LK also had no gas-tight door.


>	So after all of that build up and talking the entire story collapses
>on the knowledge that it was supposed to be one room in the building,
>something not mentioned by any of the "eyewitnesses" either,

    I have never seen one eyewitness quote who said it was the entire
building.  Perhaps Mr. Giwer will supply one?


>simply
>invented later by those trying to find physical evidence to support
>the fanciful tales of the witnesses.

    Mr. Giwer is once again highly confused, completely ignorant, and/or
lying through his teeth, or any combination of the above.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 21:37:19 PDT 1996
Article: 66479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is our german linguist?
Date: 17 Sep 1996 17:53:03 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <51n6jv$epe@access5.digex.net>
References: <51emi5$1v0@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51emi5$1v0@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  
 wrote [to Nele Abels]:

>  I didn't ask you to recover the question with a screen of smoke. I know
>  that vergasung may have the sense of killing with gas. You are just trying
>  to avoid the issue by stating that this mean necessarelly 'killing people
>  in a gas chamber'. People were killed with gas during WW I also. I'm thus
>  perfectly able to understand why 'vergasung' exist in connection with
>  keller to described an air raid shelter back those days. The word vanished
>  gradually after the war, simply because chemical war was no longer a major
>  threath,  nuclear  weapons were far much a concern. But there's traces
>  of it, in this russian-german military dictionnary.
>  What I asked you was to bring any german document, dealing with the delousing
>  facilities, or a newspaper, or a german book which described american gas
>  chambers, or a german report of amnisty international about death sentence,
>  anything of that kind were a gas chamber is defined with the words 'gaskeller'
>  or 'vergasungskeller' rather than 'gaskammer'. It is unbelievable, knowing
>  now that gaskeller was the word used to described an air raid shelter (in
>  connection with chemical bombardment) that a german decided suddenly to
>  write in a letter 'vergasungskeller' to describe a 'gaskammer' while there
>  was a common word for a gas chamber.


    Excuse me, but who wrote the Russian-German dictionary?  It makes a
difference if the author was Russian.

    Why don't you produce a German document which clearly refers to a gas
attack shelter as a "Vergasungskeller" or "Vergasungsraum?"

    I have a few more criticisms of Butz's latest thesis which I am
working on, such as the question of where, if the ventilation system was
supposed to be for the people taking shelter, are the plans or orders for
the filters in that ventilation system for keeping out the gas that the
"Vergasungskeller" was supposed to be a protection against.

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 21:37:19 PDT 1996
Article: 66481 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GIWER: A true "revisionist"
Date: 17 Sep 1996 17:55:05 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <51n6np$f0d@access5.digex.net>
References: <514k3d$ia2@access5.digex.net> <51as9t$afk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51as9t$afk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Kurt Stele  wrote:
>mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>
>>In article <512h3s$3b7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>>Kurt Stele  wrote:
>>>
>>>Now go back to work and find me a nazi gas chamber somewhere.  Step on
>it.
>
>>    Been there, done that.  Try Birkenau - Bischoff wrote to Kammler
>about
>>it in '43.  What part of "Vergasungskeller" don't you understand?
>
>Oh yeah.  Those "gas chambers" they built -after- the war, after the
>existing structures were ruined, and the Soviets refused to allow
>journalists to see them.  Nice bit of craftwork.  
>
>Love your after-market gas chambers.

    The Kremas were in those same aerial photos that you "revisionists"
love to cite.  So just how did the Russians build them in order to get
them into those during-the-war aerial photos?

    And you still have not addressed the letter written in 1943.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 22:26:31 PDT 1996
Article: 66486 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GIWER: A true "revisionist"
Date: 17 Sep 1996 18:24:47 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <51n8ff$han@access5.digex.net>
References: <51f1jn$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <51hu1f$n58@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51hu1f$n58@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Kurt Stele  wrote:
>Brian Harmon  wrote:
>
>>Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>         Actually, not one "description" matches the buildings that are
>claimed
>>> to have been the ones that were gas chambers.  We have been over this.
>>> 
>
>>This from a proven liar and troller, who sits on this group
>>seven days a week just to start fights.
>
>>But don't take my word for it folks, please take a peek at:
>
>>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
>
>>  FOr a long list of his bullshit, 
>
>>And to read about his net-abuse:
>
>>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse
>
>>Read it folks, it's a gas.
>
>>Brian Harmon
>>==========================
>>brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu
>
>after he refutes you, you resort to the above claptrap?    

    Matt Giwer has refuted nothing.

    There are too such descriptions.

    There. I have, by the same standards of "evidence" used in Mr. 
Giwer's own "refutation," refuted Mr. Giwer's "refutation."

    Do you need a hint in getting the point?


>The lurker who reads the exchange can see Matt goes unrefuted and the
>holocausters replies with ad hominem.

    I guess you do need that hint.  Matt has not provided a refutation. 
He has made an unsupported assertion.

    I guess you missed the time when he loudly insisted that not one
victim of the Nazi X-ray sterilization experiments was ever found.
Interesting how I was able to find that one testified at Brack's trial
(see p. 279 of Vol 2 of the Green Series).  See also:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stein.michael/brack-letter.01
http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=3424506&server=dnserver.db96q3
&CONTEXT=842998221.30717&hitnum=1

    DejaNews has recently changed some things, and I'm not sure if the
above URL is long-lived.  If DejaNews complains about the context, do a
query filter on alt.revisionism and search for the keywords "castration"
and "drawer" and look at Mr. Giwer's post from 7/25/96.  Mr. Giwer tries
to use DejaNews as support, except that he never tells people how to find
the post he claims backs him up.  Funny thing, that. 

    Mr. Giwer is a confessed liar who simply makes up his "facts" as he
goes, as I demonstrated above.  So just how does his unsupported word
refute anything? 

    For documentation of Mr. Giwer's confession of lying, see:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 23:17:45 PDT 1996
Article: 66496 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Matt Giwer, defender of copyright
Date: 17 Sep 1996 18:54:23 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <51na6v$ipt@access5.digex.net>
References: <51epj7$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51epj7$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>
>Nazi gold hoard may have been from teeth fillings
>
>
>Source:  Reuters
>

[Snip]


>[09-11-96 at 17:51 EDT, Copyright 1996, Reuters America Inc.]
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Is it just me or do other people recall Mr. Giwer thundering about how
Nizkor was violating his copyright?

    Hypocrisy, thy name is Giwer.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 17 23:17:46 PDT 1996
Article: 66499 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. "Stone?"
Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:01:59 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <51ne5n$l7q@access5.digex.net>
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <519ggs$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <3238262C.575D@serv.net> <51bho0$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51bho0$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:03:08 +0000, Laurinda Stryker
> wrote:

[snip]

>The first 
>>three concentration camps
>>       established were Dachau (near Munich), Buchenwald (near Weimar) 
>>and Sachsenhausen
>>       (near Berlin).'
>>
>
>>Please note the final sentence.
>
>	Where does it say there were gas chambers in the final sentence?  No
>where.  Want to try again?

    Where did it say "gas chambers" anywhere in this thread?  Nowhere.

    Stone misquoted Wiesenthal.  You supported it.  Ms. Stryker corrected
it.  That is all.


>	No, you do not.  You wish to promote that lie that KZ (or internment
>camp) means gas chambers.

    Making up a strawman on no evidence in an attempt to avoid attention
to the fact that you were once again illiterate.  Sorry, I noticed.  Want
to try again?


>>You will say, of course, that this is not the SWC URL you posted. But 
>>you posted no such URL in support of your assertions.
>
>	That is not the one I posted months ago.  Look up that one.

    Unfortunately for you that is very easy to do.  If you had posted such
a URL, it MUST have included the string "www.wiesenthal.com."  DejaNews
can only find three such posts from you, and none of them qualifies. 

    You have been caught lying once again.  Sorry about that. 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 01:10:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66521 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Does anyone have it?
Date: 17 Sep 1996 19:10:54 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 96
Message-ID: <51nb5u$jc9@access5.digex.net>
References: <51eoji$i7q@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <323c413c.10382253@news.pacificnet.net> <15SEP199617191834@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <51k2a8$89q@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51k2a8$89q@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 15 Sep 1996 17:19 MST, dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <323c413c.10382253@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...

>>>	Mr.Mittleman refuses to help adversary. If Mr.Mittleman thinks
>>>the records of the Nuremberg Trials are supporting of the Holocaust
>>>story, why doesn't he just help Mr.Giwer. Just think, Giwer gets what
>>>he needs, posts something, giving Mr.Mittleman and any others the
>>>opportunity to come back with the heavy intellectual debunking of
>>>Giwers analysis.
>
>>    Because, Tommy, Giwer isn't interested in debating the Holocaust. 
>>    Giwer is a troll who is simply obfuscating the discussion here.  
>
>As you know, no one ever expected a discussion of the holocaust until I got
>here.  This is a well known flame conference and it is well known that the
>holohuggers start the flaming.

    It is also a well-known lie conference, and it is well-known that
"revisionists" start the lying.  Look at

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

[...]

>>    I have no desire to help Giwer railroad discussion.  I have no respect
>>    for Giwer as a human being.  
>
>	Such an ego.  Why would anyone care about your respect?

    Why would anyone care about the opinion of a self-confessed liar such
as Mr. Giwer about anything?


>>I have no desire to have dialogue with
>>    Giwer.
>
>	Were you qualified to do so that might have some meaning.

   What qualifies one to have a dialogue with Mr. Giwer?  A complete lack
of intelligence, knowledge, and honesty?


>>    I also do not have personal access to the trial transcripts and I have
>>    no desire to do the legwork for him or anyone else who could do it just
>>    as easily as I could.
>

>But it appears I do have access to major parts of the IMT transcripts and
>pust them regularly.  Why is it you can not do what I have done?

    Quote things out of context?

    I cannot do that because I have integrity.


>Or perhaps you have and would rather not discuss it?

    It is a long task, but eventually the _full_ transcripts will be on
Nizkor.


>>    That should be sufficient and rational reason.
>
>	For not dealing with the transcript excerpts I have posted?

    It does take longer to refute a lie than to make one up.  I am quite
certain I know what Mr. Giwer has done with one particular quote, for
example, but I will not respond until I can produce documentation -
something for which I have little time these days, alas. 

    Mr. Giwer, on the other hand, is willing to make up claims with no
evidence at all. For example, he claimed that not one victim of Nazi X-ray
sterilization experiments was ever found.  This despite the fact that one
such victim testified at Brack's trial, as can be seen on p. 279 of Vol. 2
of the Green Series (the U. S. Nuremberg trials under Council Law 10). 

    Now, if Mr. Giwer is so familiar with the Nuremberg transcripts, why
did he not know this?  For good measure, he called the letter from Brack
to Himmler an NKVD forgery, with no evidence whatsoever.  (The letter has
none of the defects commonly cited by "revisionists" - it is hand-signed
by Brack, on Brack's personal stationery, with a "Geheime Reichsache" 
classification stamp, and corroborated as genuine by Brack himself at his
trial.)

    Since Mr. Giwer is quite willing to make things up, as demonstrated
above, and is moreover unemployed, it is small wonder he can post lies
faster than honest employed people can refute them.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:13 PDT 1996
Article: 66522 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. "Stone?"
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:22:51 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 164
Message-ID: <51nfcr$ltc@access5.digex.net>
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <51bing$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <51jdlb$d2u@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <51k8v0$kp4@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:43642 alt.revisionism:66522

In article <51k8v0$kp4@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 16 Sep 1996 11:28:43 GMT, 
>schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
>
>>Capt. Peter Peachfuzz (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>>: 	Excuse me.  You claim the number has always been the same.  
>>: Therefore prior to the revision the total was
>
>>: 	4 million + others = 6 million
>
>>: 	After the revision it was
>
>>: 	1 million + others = 6 million
>
>>: 	Please explain which of the "others" increased at the same time
>>: Auschwitz decreased.  It is simple arithmetic.  The "others" has to
>>: have increased by 3 million.  Which ones did?
>
>>Actually, the real question is just what Myshkin thinks he is accomplishing
>>by reposting the same lie multiple times.  Does he really think that we'll
>>suddenly lose our ability to refute it?
>
>If you wish to throw out the conclusions of the IMT as a lie you will have 
>to do more than simply declare it a lie.  The IMT is the source of the
>pre-Auschwitz revision.

    Of course Mr. Giwer does not give a reference.  (Nor is it clear which
figure he is talking about - the six million total, or four million for
Auschwitz.)


>>The estimates of the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust were done
>>by numerous historians who used different methods.  
>
>	There have been only two historians in the business and they 
>arbitrarily and capriciously reject anything about the IMT they do not
>happen to like.

    Again, an unsupported assertion.  Typical Giwer.


>Dawidowicz, for example,
>>obtained her figure of 5.9 million as the difference between pre- and
>>post-war populations.  
>

>Unfortunately that can only be based upon pre and post war European
>populations in the years in which census were taken.  That is hardly
>rigorous as there no census that coincided with the beginning and end of
>the war in the countries of interest. 
>
>	Nor does it deal with emmigration.

    I wonder if Mr. Giwer can provide physical evidence of this
emigration. 



>Nor does it deal with those who died going to, staying in, and returning from
>Siberia.

    I wonder if Mr. Giwer can provide physical evidence of this.


>Nor did the Soviet Union ever publish an honest census in its entire 
>existance.

    Other demographers made estimates as well.


>Nor does it identify a cause of death, such as honorable service in the Red
>Army.

    A somewhat valid point which I have made myself.


>Nor does it take any fraction from the 31 million untraceable on any rational
>basis.

    Another unsupported assertion.


>Other than that, some uncritical people may be taken in by nonsense such as
>that.

    Some uncritical people may also be taken in by the unsupported
assertions of a confessed liar.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


>But it does coincide with the conclusion of all the investigations
>conducted by four nations with complete and unrestricted access to all of
>Europe.
>
>>She did not explicitly count the individual methods
>>used, although she does quote Hoess's estimate of 2.5 million killed at
>>Auschwitz.  On the other hand, Hilberg, 

> Hilberg was not then and is not now a historian.  And do not forget that
>as of 1989 he had spent exactly one day at Auschwitz.  Quite the
>researcher.  But then he was officially a professor of PoliSci and Public
>Affairs at the time.  It was only later that someone bought a chair in
>history for him.

    Mr. Giwer comments on many subjects for which he has no credentials.
Now suddenly he demands credentials.


>>writing in 1961, came up with
>>a figure of "at least" 5.1 million, and he did divide the number of
>>deaths by category.  He calculated that about 1 million people were 
>>killed at Auschwitz.  He did that by subtracting the number of people
>>left in Auschwitz at the time of its evacuation from the number of
>>people sent there.  


> Impossible as by that method, recorded entries, all deaths are accounted
>for by natural death, disease and accident.  No gassing by that method. 
>The celestial buzzer is sounding.

    Now if Mr. Giwer had some documentation he'd have something.  Alas,
all he has is BECAUSE!  I!  SAY!  SO!

    Psychic prediction: he will claim he has posted this documentation
(but provide no URL or search strategy).  And somehow DejaNews will not be
able to find it.  Again.


>>But the important point is that he used the "1 million
>>plus others" to get a figure of over 5 million at a time when the
>>"official" number killed at Auschwitz was still 4 million.
>
>	Obviously you studied arithmetic in public school.

    Perhaps Mr. Giwer never studied reading at all.


>>Now if we could just get him to post that physical evidence of the
>>Dresen firestorm that he keeps promising us. . .
>
>It is all there if you are willing to admit it.

    So is the physical evidence for the Holocaust.


>But then everything you have cited above are groundless estimates, not
>physical evidence.

    So what?  Mr. Giwer has made hundreds of claims and provided no
physical evidence for them.  But intellectual consistency has never been
his strong suit. 

    So just where is the physical evidence for that Dresden firestorm he
claimed happened?  (Note that this is not the same thing as a big fire
such as happened in London or Chicago.)  Still waiting. 

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:14 PDT 1996
Article: 66523 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. "Stone?"
Date: 17 Sep 1996 19:48:50 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <51ndd2$kon@access5.digex.net>
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <50to9h$n8e@lex.zippo.com> <50v2p2$755@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <519ggs$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <519ggs$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 8 Sep 1996 11:20:18 -0700, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay
>OBC) wrote:
>
>>In article <50to9h$n8e@lex.zippo.com>, Ourobouros wrote:
>
>>>3. Simon Wiesanthal has stated that no concentration camps were on
>>>German soil.  Therefore, unless Germany was buying land in Poland and so
>>>forth before W.W.II they couldn't have made concentration camps before no
>>>1939.  Is that a reasonable conclusion?
>
>>No, Mr. Wiesenthal has not said that no concentration camps
>>were on German soil. Once again, Mr. "Stone" lies, just as he
>>did when he claimed that someone, somewhere, had asserted that
>>the Nazis transported 12 million people into concentration
>>camps during a 6 year period.
>
>	As kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca knows, Wiesethal not only said it but he
>got pissed when I quoted it with URL right from the SWC website.  
>
>	Go look it up, again.  

    A DejaNews search on Mr. Giwer's posts, with search string
"www.wiesenthal.com," finds three hits with none supporting Mr. Giwer's
claim that he quoted that from the Wiesenthal web site with URL.  Don't
take my word for it, try the search yourself. 

   One of the three,

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=10184681&server=dnserver.dbapr&
CONTEXT=843003711.13495

does contain the following quote:

"there were no extermination camps on German soil" (Simon Wiesenthal,
Books and Bookmen, April, 1975).

    Alas for Mr. Giwer, that is not the same thing as "no CONCENTRATION
camps on German soil."

    Mr. Giwer is illiterate.

    Have I mentioned that he is a confessed liar as well?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!soap.news.pipex.net!pipex!wave.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer: Drunk Again?
Date: 17 Sep 1996 21:08:34 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <51ni2i$n85@access5.digex.net>
References: <51f3v3$5c1@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <51g74u$2bj@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51g74u$2bj@news.enter.net>,
Yale F. Edeiken  wrote:
>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>>  	I am repeating what I was told by NETCOM and what happened on 
>the
>>  phone.  NETCOM told me only two people had been told what was going
>>  on.  He named the Nizkor order taker and you.  
>  
>>  	I can not change that.  
>
>	Yes, Matty poo, and someone once told you that potatoes were part of 
>the ritual meal at Passover.

    Someone (namely me) _did_ mention that potatoes were permissible to
eat during Passover.  Mr. Giwer's illiterate and malfunctioning brain
somehow twisted that into a claim that spuds were a Passover food,
apparently meaning that they were an explicit part of the ritual meal.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66534 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:58:37 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <51nhft$mu5@access5.digex.net>
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <323a862a.3211799@news.srv.ualberta.ca>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article ,
Daniel Keren  wrote:
>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) whines:
>
># After all, just how much harrassment do you expect a
># person to take?
>
>More "scientific hilites" from Matt Giwer:
>
>
>
> From:         mgiwer@combase.com (Matt Giwer)
>Message-Id:   <4kru6f$k88@wi.combase.com>
>dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>>According to an excerpt from the patent mailed to me (this
>>is from the original, 1922 patent), most of the HCN is released
>>within 10 minutes. According to "revisionist" Germar Rudoplh,
>>in a temperature of 20 degrees, Zyklon-B releases 40 percent
>>in the first half-hour. He seems to rely on information sent
>>to him from experts in Germany; I'll try to contact them myself.
>
>>There is more information to support the faster release rates;
>>I'll post it soon.
>
> Contact them quickly.  It not clear how there could be any 
>release at a 20 degrees where HCN is still a liquid.  And keep 
>in mind that it will be an exponential release if it is warm 
>enough.  That is, the second half hour would be another 40% 
>of the remaining 60% and so forth each half hour.
>
>

[snip]

>His "claim" is more-or-less equivalent to asserting
>that there can be no humidity in the air if the 
>temperature is below the boiling point of water 
>(100 Celsius that is)...

    Yes indeed.  And don't forget, Mr. Giwer claims to have a degree in
physics.... 

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66544 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:49:26 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <51ngum$ml8@access5.digex.net>
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net>  <13SEP199623161663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <51f3p9$5c1@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51f3p9$5c1@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 13 Sep 1996 23:16 MST, dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny
>Mittleman) wrote:
>
>>In article , 
>>joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg) writes...
>>>Would anybody, perchance, have an address or even just a city name for Mr. 
>>>Giwer?  
>
>>    Tampa, Florida (or in that area, at least).  He has posted his address
>>    previously.  It may be on his web page.  The Cincinnati address, posted
>>    recently (and below), is his parents' address.  No one should go
>>    harrass his parents simply because Giwer is an asshole.  Their address
>>    should not be posted on the net as they are not party to any discussion
>>    here.
>
>	Then why did Ken McVay call them?

    Amazing.  Andrew Mathis open admitted that he called, not Ken McVay. 
He said he thought he was calling the Matt Giwer who posts to Usenet,
having taken the phone number from a CD-ROM with all listed US phone
numbers.  When he discovered he had reached a wrong number, he stupidly
gave his name as Ken McVay.  It was a dumb thing to do, but it was not an
attempt to harrass Mr. Giwer's father.  All this has been discussed here
before. 

    Yet Giwer repeats the insinuation that Ken McVay called his father to
harrass him. 

[ many lines of pointlessly included text snipped ]

    I suppose that's to be expected.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:17 PDT 1996
Article: 66547 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:40:38 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <51nge6$mdo@access5.digex.net>
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net>   <13SEP199623161663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <13SEP199623161663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>,
Danny Mittleman  wrote:
>In article , 
>joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg) writes...

[snip]

>>The following, which purports to be a message from him, appears to contain a 
>>threat to violence, which is generally acknowledged to be not merely naughty, 
>>but often illegal.
>
>    Rich Graves or Mike Stein can probably tell you if the headers and path
>    match other Giwer posts in order to authenticate it.

    They do.

>    If you are going to consider this a serious threat you might want to
>    engage in e-mail correspondence with Yale and/or Ken who are both up to
>    date on the FBI investigation into Giwer's web activities.  The agents
>    investigating Giwer would probably be interested in the threat.

    I doubt it.  It lacks at least one key feature of the threat to Ken
McVay.  But I will leave Mr. Giwer to guess what that is.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66556 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!news.iadfw.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the usual suspects
Date: 17 Sep 1996 01:26:21 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <51lcpt$506@access5.digex.net>
References: <519mc2$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <51bp2i$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <323a7dd8.1081621@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <51fln0$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51fln0$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:49:31 GMT, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John
>Morris) wrote:
>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
>
>>[re: his blatant net abuse, reports of which he calls "lies"]
>
>>>	I have been over that lie with NETCOM.  It is another Nizkor lie that
>>>believed by holohuggers because they are such a gullible lot of fools.
>
>>>	After all, I am here, am I not?  You little fool.  
>
>>You just got lucky and decided to call to discuss your suspension
>>while sober.
>
>	You mean you folks will continue the libel about my suppesed drinking
>habits?  Is that your entire point?  
>
>	Rather, unlike you folks, I told the truth.  It still carries weight.

    You mean, like you told the truth about your censorship of Rack Jite?
Three different true truths?  And then made the mistake of openly
admitting that you deliberately lied, and why?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html

    And all the other lies you have told?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html



>>Eventually you *will* shoot yourself in the foot while your foot is in
>>your mouth.
>
>>It's only a matter of time.
>
>	Rather there is enough evidence here that people claiming they have
>made reports to the FBI really do not believe them.  And false
>complaints are a crime.  

    Nobody has been arrested for filing false complaints, fool.  What does
that tell you?


>	If complaints have been made they should hope the FBI folks never
>spend any time reading what they are saying on this conference.  There
>have already been enough such posts to support charges of filing false
>complaints.  

    Nobody has been arrested for filing false complaints, fool.  What does
that tell you?



>	And do you really think I do not almost but avoid saying what you are
>looking for deliberately?  It is so much fun watching you waste the
>bandwidth on non-productive issues while the rest of us go about
>tearing down the holocaust myths as is the purpose of the newsgroup.  

    Except that when you are a self-confessed liar (as you are) and
consistently refuse to provide documentation for your assertions (as you
do), all one need do is point out the history of lies, distortions, and
half-truths of you and your fellow self-proclaimed "truth-seekers."

    What kind of truth-seeking is it that has to lie so much?


>	On the other hand, maybe if you cry wolf enogh times ...  

    How does Matt Giwer lie?  Let us count the ways....

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 09:13:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66590 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Date: 17 Sep 1996 20:52:28 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <51nh4c$mpt@access5.digex.net>
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <51f3p9$5c1@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>  <51fe0j$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51fe0j$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 15:47:23, joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg)
>wrote:
>
>>>        Then why did Ken McVay call [Mr. Giwer's parents]?  
>
>>Is this a koan?  You've been told, more than once, that he didn't.  
>
>	All I have is someone who claims whe was lying then but not lying now.
>So if he is a liar, when is he lying?  
>
>	Or is that too hard a question for you?

   Why don't you refer to the following file and then attempt to answer it
yourself?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 15:16:15 PDT 1996
Article: 66642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Matt Giwer, uncommon lying "revisionist"
Supersedes: <51n608$do4@access5.digex.net>
Date: 17 Sep 1996 17:43:26 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <51n61u$dr9@access5.digex.net>
References: <519op1$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <519s24$f6p@news.enter.net> <51bv9n$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51bv9n$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 12 Sep 1996 20:33:08 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>	The mailbomb is public.
>
>	The lie is public.

    Many of Mr. Giwer's lies are public.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

    So is his open admission that he is a wilful liar.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html

    I notice that a few days after this article was posted, Mr. Giwer
started using a new posting host.  Now, why would he do that if Netcom
gave him a clean bill of health?

    So far I have seen no answer to my request for documentation of Mr. 
Giwer's assertion that the mailbomb was sent in response to a request by
Ken McVay.  Not that I find this surprising, you understand.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 18 19:47:50 PDT 1996
Article: 66683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the recod
Date: 18 Sep 1996 13:45:42 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <51pcg6$ooe@access5.digex.net>
References: <51l5vs$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51l5vs$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	McFly nad Ferree are both idiots.

    It is so nice to see that Mr. Giwer never engages in any of that
juvenile name calling he accuses others of posting.

[ Long signature snipped ]
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 19 07:41:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66713 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.mindspring.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: thought for the day...
Date: 18 Sep 1996 17:17:31 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 94
Message-ID: <51potb$e1e@access5.digex.net>
References: <515c8b$go5@Vir.com> <51f4ur$5c1@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <323B221E.1FA4@unb.ca> <51filb$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51filb$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:22:38 -0300, Keith Morrison 
>wrote:
>>Oh well, how dumb of me to speak of something of which I am ignorant.
>>Of course one of my duties as mine geologist is helping out our
>>surveyor, who is also in charge of air quality measurements.  With
>>his work on ventilation I'm quite familiar with fans and moving
>>air.  I believe the fan sitting on a ventilation shaft about two
>>hundred feet from my office is rated at 15 thousand cubic feet per
>>minute.  And the there's this really odd sensation, sort of like
>>a moving air feeling when I pass one of our smaller ventilation
>>fans underground.
>
>>Odd that they seem to move air well.  And they are constructed
>>like the fan sitting on a desk, only bigger.
>
>>Obviously these fans do not realize that according to GiwerPhysics
>>they should not work.  Silly, silly fans.
>
>	And you are claiming that that there is a single fan of the common
>household type of portable fan that blows air down into the the mine
>and that is all there is to the system?

    Multiple fans were clearly mentioned.  Get back to us when you learn
to read. 


>What a strange claim that but
>that is what the holohuggers were claiming about their beloved gas
>chambers.  Would you like to repeat your credentials?  
>
>	Now of course if you had followed the discussion you would know 
>that I pointed out that at least a squirrel cage design was needed (as
>you are most certainly using else the back pressure is overwhelming the
>system with 200 feet of shaft)

    He says that it is not a squirrel cage.

    Keith, perhaps you could take some photos so that Mr. Giwer will have
some physical evidence?


>and that both an input and out exhaust
>fan are needed to create air flow.  That is exactly the system used in
>mines, on board ships and in the closed loop sense in central home
>HVAC.  It is also what is required for any "gas chamber".

    Mr. Giwer seems to confuse "sufficient" with "necessary."  Don't
forget, our 163-IQ holder of a physics degree also did not seem to be able
to figure out how cyanide could evaporate below its boiling point.  In
that case how would he explain the fact that water clearly does evaporate?


>	As you know the requirement for moving air is both a push and a pull.
>Only a push loses most of it effectiveness in creating mainly
>turbulence and a back pressure that works against its effectiveness.
>Only a pull creates similar turbulence and maintains a negative
>pressure.  The ideal system with both input and exhaust fans creates a
>low turbulence air flow with no change in air pressure.  
>
>	If you have the credentials you claim, you understand the above.

    If Mr. Giwer had the credentials he claims, he should understand
evaporation.  Yet he does not.


>If
>you do not then you will not understand it.  Either way, you are most
>likely to claim it is completely false even though you know it is
>true.  That is the sign of a holohugger.  
>
>	If you had been following the discussion, you would know that I
>pointed out the complete lack of any such system at any of the
>supposed gas chambers.  

    I have also noted that Mr. Giwer keeps saying "there was not any" 
whether he has any idea whether it is true or not.  Case in point: victims
of X-ray sterilization experiments.  Giwer loudly claimed none were ever
found.  Yet one testified at Brack's trial, and there are records of
others. 


>	But you were not following it.  You are simply jumping in here in
>order to create some fool holohugger point where there is none.  

    Remember, Mr. Giwer has openly confessed that he is a liar.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 20 15:53:08 PDT 1996
Article: 67133 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suddenly there is physical evidence
Date: 20 Sep 1996 16:53:48 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <51v08s$sp3@access5.digex.net>
References: <51s6vd$bkh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51s6vd$bkh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	After it was clearly and forcefully pointed out there is no physical 
>evidence of gassing and after the response regarding conflicting witness
>reports about Dresden were discounted we found two other responses.

    "We?"  Does Mr. Giwer have a multiple personality disorder?

	
> One is the claim that it exists only one CD and can only be presented by
>mail and can not be posted in public on alt.revisionism.  The person
>making this claim is not only clearly lying he has admitted to membership
>in an organization of Jewish murderers very like the IDF.  Who would
>believe a murderer?

    I think a better question is: who would believe Matt Giwer when he
makes assertions without documentation, given that he is a confessed liar?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


> The other claim has become more common, to simply assert that it exists
>but refuse to post it.  This is being done despite the full and complete
>knowledge that there are exactly three questionable documents that would
>constitute physical evidence. 

    There are more than three, and Mr. Giwer (as usual) gives no reason to
question them other than Because!  I!  Say!  So!


>The lack of physical evidence is clearly a very, very sore point for the
>holohuggers.

    Lack of honesty is clearly a very, very glaring trait of Mr. Giwer.


>And of course the holohuggers will continue to refuse to post it while
>doing all of the above. 

    Mr. Giwer, of course, constantly refuses to post evidence for his
assertions.  He says, "look it up" - even though DejaNews searches cannot
find any article matching his claims.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 20 15:53:09 PDT 1996
Article: 67138 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: thought for the day...
Date: 18 Sep 1996 17:05:32 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <51po6s$cv3@access5.digex.net>
References: <515c8b$go5@Vir.com>  <51bm36$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51bm36$kr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:57:19 -0800, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
>Alstine) wrote:
>
>>In article <515c8b$go5@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:
>
>>> "When someone has in the mind the liquidation of hundreds of thousands
>>>  of people, he's hardly ordering colorimetric gas testers by bunch
>>>  of ten"
>>> 
>>> -Confucius
>
>>"When one has in mind to test the aeration capability of the ventilation
>>system of a homicidal gas chamber prior to the  liquidation of hundreds of
>>thousands of people, one would surely order ten gas detectors."
>
>	When one has dozens of delousing chambers for clothing one certainly
>needs dozens of detectors of the gas.  

    Yet there were only ten.  More importantly, when one wants detectors
of gas for delousing chambers one would think one would order them from
the people supplying the chambers. 

    The gas detectors in question were ordered by the Auschwitz Bauleitung
>from  Topf and Sons, the firm building the Kremas.  Topf was not in the
delousing business at all; ordering cyanide detectors from them for your
delousing chambers would be like asking your plumber to supply you with
bags for your vacuum cleaner.  Ordering from Topf only made sense if the
detectors were connected with the Kremas which Topf was building for them.

    Once again Mr. Giwer displays his ignorance.  Though I must say I
still prefer it to his deliberate dishonesty. 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access1.digex.net Mon Sep 23 07:45:51 PDT 1996
Article: 67940 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger argumentation
Date: 22 Sep 1996 16:22:49 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <52476p$5og@access1.digex.net>
References: <51rrd2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access1.digex.net

In article <51rrd2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>
>Assertion:
>
>	"There is no physical evidence of gassing during the holocaust."
>
>Response:
>
>	"There are conflicting witness accounts of Dresden."  	

    Let us contrast this with "revisionist" argumentation, which is to
lie, distort, selectively edit, tell half-truths, etc.

    In this case, Mr. Giwer is lying outright.  He has been presented with
physical evidence; the argument about Dresden was a response to something
else.  It is merely a reductio ad absurdum about "revisionist" methods of
argument and standards of evidence, and their intellectual inconsistency
in what they will accept for some historical events but not for the
Holocaust.

    Remember, Matt Giwer is a self-confessed liar.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 24 15:19:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68396 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A funny thing didn't happen yesterday
Date: 24 Sep 1996 15:08:30 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <529bje$7vv@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

    A funny thing didn't happen yesterday at Yom Kippur services.  We had
a guest rabbi to assist with the services, and he was supposed to give a
talk late in the afternoon.  He started out by distributing photocopies of
a picture of two memorial markers from France (except that I didn't get a
copy before he started; otherwise I might have been able to avert the
whole episode).  One of them said, "Here are the ashes of our martyred
comrades from Auschwitz" or some such.  The other said something like,
"Here is the soap made from the fat of our deportees."  He told the 
congregation what they were looking at, and I waited for him to tell the 
rest of the story - except he didn't.

    He finished his talk, and called for questions.  I was sort of on the 
spot.  On the one hand, I hated to embarrass him, but on the other hand, 
I have an obligation to the truth, and that's what won out.  I got up and 
said, "I hate to say this, but the manufacture of soap from Jewish fat 
was a wartime rumor; no evidence was ever found."  I told about the RIF 
bars and the Mazur testimony at Nuremberg.

    Based upon the claims I see posted here by "revisionists," I steeled
myself for the inevitable firestorm of "Antisemite!" and "Self-hating
Jew!" to rain down upon my head. 

    But you know what?  Not one person objected, either then or afterward. 
In fact, an Auschwitz survivor was in attendance - a Hugarian deportee; 
he showed me the tattoo on his arm - and he was quite matter-of-fact 
about it.  He thought the soap stories were only widely accepted until 
the mid-'50s (so much for the "revisionist" claim to have "forced" the 
retraction), and it really didn't matter to him if they were true or not.

    Maybe I just belong to an unusual congregation? 

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 24 15:19:44 PDT 1996
Article: 68420 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 14:27:30 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <52996i$6ji@access5.digex.net>
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com>  <524lr6$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5256os$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <5256os$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu>,
william c anderson  wrote:
>Matt  Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: 	Gassification cellar, whatever that is, from a word construction 
>; unknown in the German language prior to the IMT.  
>
>Again, Matt displays his stunning lack of knowledge of the German
>language.
>
>:  	But, if you would ever take the time to examine the real aerial 
>: photos you will find there are no buildings connected to the Krema V 
>: that could be it and it had not cellar.  And you know that.  Should I 
>: post it again?   
>
>I don't know what "it had not cellar" means, Matt--but the Oxford 
>English Dictionary defines "cellar" as "A store-house or store-room,  
>whether above or below ground."  Would you like to defend your lie in
>light of this definition?

    It doesn't matter.  The "Vergasungskeller" reference was to Krema II. 
That _did_ have a cellar; the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE can still be seen at
Birkenau.  The "Gaskammer" reference was for Krema V, and it was above
ground. 

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Sep 24 15:19:45 PDT 1996
Article: 68421 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.postech.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Supersedes: <5298p4$6ce@access5.digex.net>
Date: 24 Sep 1996 14:38:33 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <5299r9$71h@access5.digex.net>
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <51udi6$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <524lr6$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <524lr6$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:46:43 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>3) Another document is presented, which mentions a "gaskammer"
>>   in Krema V.
>

> But, if you would ever take the time to examine the real aerial photos
>you will find there are no buildings connected to the Krema V that could
>be it and it had not cellar.  And you know that.  Should I post it again?

    Please do, or provide the URL so we can see which photo you are
misinterpreting or lying about.  But congratulations for finally realizing
that Krema V had no cellar.  How long did it take you?

    Remember, your mapreading skills are known to be poor.  Have you
finally figured out where the Holocaust Museum is, and more importantly
where it is not (i.e., on the Mall)? 

    Meanwhile, why not look at the ground-level photo?

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/krema5-01.jpg


>>4) Giwer, after - yet again - making a joke out of himself,
>>   goes crazy.
>
>	Obviously you are ignorant of the subject you are trying to discuss.  

    Obviously Matt Giwer is a liar.  I mean, he even admitted it himself.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 25 00:04:57 PDT 1996
Article: 68550 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!spring.edu.tw!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: 24 Sep 1996 21:56:59 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <52a3hb$fj3@access5.digex.net>
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>  <51d9cd$u4@Vir.com> <323e1a8e.603090@news.inetport.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <323e1a8e.603090@news.inetport.com>,
Mike Curtis  wrote:
>Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:
>>As I said, in Pressac's book (A.T.O.)
>> this document was sent to the Auschwitz museum by the Committee of
>> Anti-Fascist Resistants of German Democratic Republic

     I shall have to look at Pressac again for this statement; I don't
recall it.


>> and I compared the signatured
>> that appeared on this document with Jahrling's signature on two other
>> documents (genuine those ones) in the same book and the hoaxers didn't
>> even bother themselfs to get an original of Jahrling signature to do a
>> professional job, it is obvious to anyone who check in the book.
>
>You compared it with what? You have an original? Where did you acquire
>it? You didn't say how the comparison went.

    There is a Jahrling hand signature on Nizkor, in

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Coke_Consumption.jpg

Mr. Beaulieu is right, but unfortunately it proves nothing. The
typewritten signature "Jahrling" on the document about crematory oven
capacity is of course no match to the handwritten signature on the other
one, found at 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/furnace-capacity.jpg

    The handwritten signature on the document appears on a line which
reads "Fu"r die Richtigkeit der Abschrift" ("For the correctness of the
copy"), which I understand was a common line found on German documents in
the days before photocopy machines, when copies had to be hand-typed.  The
letter from Bischoff to Kammler is a file copy; Pollock's signature is
under the abbreviation F.d.R.d.A. 

    The question which must be addressed is, does that scrawl at the
bottom of the document appear on other, innocuous documents in the PMO
files?  If so, it would appear to be a genuine file copy.  If not, it may
be the signature of the person who copied it for the Auschwitz museum, in
which case it is legitimate to ask for the location of the original.  (I
do note that the copy was on a typewriter without the special
lightning-bolt SS device - compare to the Bischoff letter which has this
feature.)  Now that Germany is reunited, old East German archives should
be open to inspection. 

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 25 13:29:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68717 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: 24 Sep 1996 21:16:44 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <52a15s$c97@access5.digex.net>
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <524lr6$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5256os$ho3@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <529e99$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <529e99$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:

> The question was, do you want me to post the picture again?  That is a
>very simple question.  That way you can see for yourself that there are
>no other buildings connected with IV or V.  If you do not want to look at
>the picture and still declare the connected buildings are there, that is
>acting like a holohugger. 

    Excuse me, but if the aerial photo you are referring to is the one you
called 'fndaerab.jpg,' it is a bit hard to figure out how it can tell you
anything about Kremas IV and V, given that they are outside the picture to
the right.  The photo shows Kremas II and III only.

    Nine months of discussion and our 163 IQ type still has no idea of the
layout at Birkenau. 

    If Mr. Giwer still insists that fndaerab.jpg supports his assertion
about Krema V, that is acting like a crazy liar. 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

    Oh....
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 25 13:29:11 PDT 1996
Article: 68740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Eastern European Style of Truth
Date: 25 Sep 1996 14:51:19 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <52buv7$pb3@access5.digex.net>
References: <52aobv$au2@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52aobv$au2@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>          The Eastern European Style of Truth
>
>     This is a rather nebulous and unclear point to make about 
>the holocaust but one that needs be mentioned at least in 
>passing.  And that is the "allegoric" or "poetic" style of 
>recounting an event.  Specifically that there is a wide 
>divergence between what western and eastern Europe consider a 
>truthful recounting, even in court.  
>
>     What this means in practice is that the western "tell me 
>about" is about the same as the eastern "tell me a story about."  
>In both cases there is an expectation, the former closest to the 
>Aristotilian facts and in the latter the closest story to the 
>facts.  
>
>     Of course this is also the traditional method of 
>communication that is decades out of style today.  But when 
>people were telling stories of the Nazi occupation of Eastern 
>Europe it was the way to communicate.

    Even the Nazis themselves who "told about" what they did?

    Oh, I guess they were all from _East_ Germany.  (Even though it didn't
exist yet.)

[big snip]


>     The stories of the holocaust were not told with the 
>intention of being taken literally.  In fact the tellers had no 
>concept of literal truth as do westerns.  They were, at the same 
>time, telling the story in the eastern sense and lying in the 
>western sense.  

    Matt Giwer lies.  In the western sense.  He even admitted it outright.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html


>=====
>Read the information holohuggers fear
>http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
>http://www.codoh.com/
>http://www.webcom.com/~zundel

    Read the information about the lies, distortions, and half-truths
contained in the above sites:

    http://www.nizkor.org


Read about the lies told by Matt Giwer:

    http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Wed Sep 25 17:30:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68810 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Oroborous draws a bead on his foot...
Followup-To: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Date: 25 Sep 1996 18:03:33 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <52ca7l$3ka@access5.digex.net>
References: <51nesm$hme@lex.zippo.com> <323FEE40.2747@ccnis.net> <51paa4$m1h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <51qr94$892@lex.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:44673 alt.revisionism:68810 alt.politics.nationalism.white:31212

In article <51qr94$892@lex.zippo.com>,   wrote:
>In article <51paa4$m1h@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, 
>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca says...
>>
>>In article <323FEE40.2747@ccnis.net>, 
>>"Annie Alpert, OFB"  wrote:
>>
>>>Ourobouros wrote:
>>
>>>> For reference:
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/nyms/stone/cavalli-sforza-fabrication
>>>> For all onlookers please note that McVay has this specially marked and
>>>> without my reply.

    For which you should be grateful.


[snip]

>What good is my reply in stone.0996 O' coward?

    Having made a special point to look for it, I must say: not very. 
"zzz zzz zzz zzz", "*sigh*," and "That will have to be determined" don't
seem to be very good answers to cogent points about definite claims you
made.


>You are delibrately misrepresenting my argument to gain some "brownie
>points" from your comrades.  Do you need to use such tactics to brown-
>nose your donators?
>
>If you are going to have a special file just for sole representation of
>Finsten's feeble arguments then it is straight misrepresentation.  You
>have not recorded my reply directly to your jumped-up file.  That is my
>complaint, you are delibrately trying to cloud the waters with more of
>your bullshit.

    Well, if you _insist_ on exposing your lack of ability to answer Ms.
Finsten's points about the problems you will face applying your standards
of whiteness, perhaps I can prevail upon Ken McVay to oblige you. 

    The problem is this: any supposedly objective test you devise will
both pass individuals you would prefer to consider nonwhite, and fail
people with lily-white (by your definition) ancestry.  I'm Jewish (and by
birth, not by conversion), but I have a hunch you would have a really
tough time finding an _objective_ standard which would mark me as nonwhite
without dumping a bunch of your fellow whites at the same time. 

    Are you _sure_ you don't know a fellow named Colin McKinstry?

    alt.revisionism trimmed from followups.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 26 18:18:42 PDT 1996
Article: 69101 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 18:16:24 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <52evbo$qb6@access5.digex.net>
References: <51qbd8$n1j@news.enter.net> <51tg11$s8n@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <51tg11$s8n@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
>>  	What you neglect to add is that the those holding them prisoner and 
>>  the civilians in the surrounding areas did not end up that way.
>
>There was much suffering among the German population both during and for years
> after the war had ended, and many of the staff 
>ended up swinging at the end of a noose.

    This is highly disingenuous.  There is a big difference between the
medical condition of the German population and the inmates in the camp,
and the point about the noose is wholly specious.

    The critical point is this: you argued that the starvation and disease
were the result of supply disruptions. 

    If supplies to the area were disrupted, the starvation and disease
should have been widespread, not limited to the prisioner population. They
did not build special railroads for prisoner-only food which got bombed,
while leaving the guards-and-civilians food railways unbombed.

    You have failed to address this very valid point.

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 26 18:18:42 PDT 1996
Article: 69102 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur
Date: 26 Sep 1996 20:19:09 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <52f6ht$22l@access5.digex.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article ,
Kneeland   wrote:
>	Speaking about the above, a book that must be read for a clear,
>and quick summing up of Jewish machinations and chicaneries in the
>Talmudic manner par excellence, is Samuel Roth's "Jews Must Live". It is a
>must. Roth- who is 'one of us' - describes the talmudic religion of
>Judaism a la Yom Kippur and its infamous Kol Nidre. Read this book.

    Would this be the same talmud that says "for transgressions between
man and man, Yom Kippur brings no atonement until the injured party is
appeased?"  Just so you understand what that evil talmud says about that
"infamous" Kol Nidre.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 26 19:26:15 PDT 1996
Article: 69129 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More lame Giwer lies easily caught
Date: 26 Sep 1996 19:19:03 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <52f317$san@access5.digex.net>
References:  <5268q0$rhh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <527k0o$pe@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <52c2t2$n5r@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52c2t2$n5r@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 24 Sep 1996 03:19:52 GMT, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson)
>wrote:
>
>>Matt  Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>>: 	In fact I did call him jew-boy but only after he started 
>>: calling me nazi-boy.
>
>>And then you lied about it, claiming you'd never used the term
>>"jew-boy".
>
>	The thread was that I had started the exchange.
>I merely denied starting it
>rather than repeating one more time what all the holohuggers knew, that Keren
>had started it.  
>

    Another lie.  Search DejaNews filtering alt.revisionism and searching
for the quoted phrase "questioning what they post."  Start with Matt
Giwer's article of 8/12/96.  Matt Giwer claimed "A revionist [sic] will
never call you a name for questioning what they post."  Period.  Nothing
about being the _first_ to call a name.  Then search on "jewboys" and look
at Mr. Giwer's article from 8/17/96, message id
<4v3urr$ev0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>.



>:      Rather I have not read that term here.

>Liar.  You've USED that term here.

        No.  In fact I rather carefully keep away from terms that I do not
create such as holohugger.



    This is not a denial of starting it.  It is a denial of using it at
all.

    Matt Giwer is caught lying yet again.

    Only a very stupid person would continue to lie about the history of
posts in the newsgroup when he knows how easily DejaNews can be used to
expose his dishonesty. 

    Yet Matt Giwer continues to lie about the history of posts in the
newsgroup.

    The conclusion is left as an exercise to the reader.


>>Now you'll lie about that, and claim you never claimed you never
>>used the term.  After a few more iterations, you'll most likely
>>explode.
>

> Rather it has been the pleasure of the holohuggers to claim I started
>the name calling.  It has also been their pleasure to remove messages
>from context in order to distort their meaning. 

    Note that Mr. Giwer yet again gives no references.

    For articles exposing Mr. Giwer doing exactly what he accuses others
of doing, see

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/
dishonest-text-deletion.html

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-hcn-not-cw.html

Then of course there is the way Mr. Giwer did it to the Wannsee Protocol -

search alt.revisionism on DejaNews for the phrase

"Please note that the discussion of sterilization" and read the one
article of mine from 6/5/96 which comes up.

He also did it to my article discussing his dishonest reading.  Search
DejaNews for the phrase "in the right context," and see my article of
6/8/96.  Then read Mr. Giwer's followup where he carefully and deceptively
cut out the very valid point about the wording of a proposed law. 


> And of course you are knowingly doing that again here.  I never expect
>honesty from holohuggers but I do get tired of the repetition of pointing
>out their lies.

    Rather funny, given that he has yet to point out one with evidence.

    Yet he never gets tired of repeating lies.

    Matt Giwer is a liar.  He even admits it himself.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

    Since Mr. Giwer cannot refute any of this carefully documented
evidence, I psychically predict he will repost his spam of the 'whois' on
Ken McVay.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 26 20:28:16 PDT 1996
Article: 69141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bacon, Diogenes, Homer, Voltaire - enemies of Holocaust tyranny
Date: 26 Sep 1996 20:42:45 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <52f7u5$2qd@access5.digex.net>
References: <32415e43.532827@news.pacificnet.net> <3241a7b2.9725794@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <526po4$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <526po4$k97@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>>they were simply put to death. The activities of the euthanasia
>>centres are somewhat better documented than those of the death camps.
>>Documents covering the transport of sick prisoners from Dachau to
>>Hartheim are quoted in Kogon's book _Nazi Mass Murder: a Documentary
>>History of the Use of Poison Gas_.
>
>	Which of course is interesting in that the sick and injured were 
>transported from A-B to Belsen although it was at the option of the sick
>and injured.  (Elie Wiesel as one example if you have would prefer not to
>remember.)

    What Giwer the liar prefers not to have people remember is that Wiesel
was under the impression that those left behind would be murdered.  He was
incorrect, but that does not change the fact that Mr. Giwer is lying by
omission when he says it was at the option of the sick and injured.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 26 20:28:17 PDT 1996
Article: 69150 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: uprising update
Date: 26 Sep 1996 20:01:40 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <52f5h4$1ec@access5.digex.net>
References: <52cflt$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69150 soc.culture.israel:44312 soc.culture.lebanon:25908 soc.culture.jewish:77280

In article <52cflt$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	My first information came from the ITN Network News.  They reported the Israeli
>use of live ammunition.  Now after three US news reports not one of them has
>mentioned the use of live ammunition.

    No, only the fact that people died.  If you think that happens with
dead ammunition that is your problem.


>ITN reported the Israeli first use of guns from observation by the reporter.

    No physical evidence, in other words.


>The US news has reported the Israeli statement that the Palestinians were the
>first to use guns.  
>
>	Once more Sobran is proven correct.  The US is in the hands of Israel.  
>
>And as part of the great spoken language debate, when the Mayor of Jerusalem
>gave his insult that the religious affront was for mercantile tourism he was
>speaking to the local TV cameras.

    Really?  So you saw this on Israeli television in Israel?  What are
you doing there?  And they did not provide Hebrew subtitles at least? 

    Or do you suppose there might have been a few cameras from American
news organizations as well, and some local cameras as well?

>He was also speaking english.  Netanyahu speaking from Paris also spoke
>in English.

    By Giwer's standards, this proves that the language of France is
English.



>=====
>Read the information holohuggers fear
>http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
>http://www.codoh.com/
>http://www.webcom.com/~zundel


Read the documentation of Giwer's lies that he can't refute:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Thu Sep 26 20:38:34 PDT 1996
Article: 69157 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!spring.edu.tw!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Consider the holohugger
Date: 26 Sep 1996 20:29:03 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <52f74f$2ab@access5.digex.net>
References: <52agf1$8u1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52bal5$280@news.enter.net> <52f5nh$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52f5nh$gpf@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 25 Sep 1996 13:04:37 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>>  
>>>  	I wonder if the ten hour ventilation time has anything to do with the
>>>  long promised Degesh pub not showing up before.  
>>  
>>>  Source: Zyklon for Pest Control, Degesch Publication 
>>>  persons from entering. Time of exposure depends on the type of pests to
>>>  be attacked; for the
>>>  destruction of the various types of moths and their pre-adult stages 24
>>>  hours will suffice, against
>>>  other kinds of insect pests one should fumigate for 48 hours. If there
>>>  are any dense stowages or
>>>  bulkss of commodities to penetrate, the time of exposure may need to be
>>>  extended to 72 hours. 
>
>>	Sounds like the perfect material to kill flies in an environment where 
>>people work.  Giwer has claimed that is the use to which ZB was put.  Anybody 
>>with the least bit of knowledge knows that to prevent maggots you must 
>>disinfect twice a day.  Since each disinfection would take 48-72 hours that 
>>would mean . . . . . . . 
>
>>	Tell us, Matty poo, how many hours are in a day?
>
>	Not enough to cremate the imaginary number of bodies.  We all know 
>that.  

    Not even enough to cremate any bodies, if ZB had been used as Matt
claimed in his unsupported assertion.

    This is as close as we will get to an admission from Mr. Giwer that ZB
was not used to prevent maggots.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 00:55:06 PDT 1996
Article: 69197 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.total.net!news.insinc.net!news2.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the zero, no three, no four, no, um...
Date: 26 Sep 1996 19:34:49 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <52f3up$t17@access5.digex.net>
References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>
>     The four pieces of physical evidence of the extermination of 
>12 million people.  

    Gee, first it was zero, then three, now four.


>1)  Ausrotten speech, suspected of being by Himmler, exists only 
>as a recording, not known if ever presented

    Nope, Himmler's handwritten notes also exist.  That's five.


>2)  Wannsee Protocol, which discusses forced emigration but 
>otherwise appears to have been unimplemented 
>
>3)  Vergassnungkeller letter, which uses a word form theretofore 
>unknown in the German language that is construed to mean gas 
>chamber despite the composing words and the structure of the 
>sentence in which it is used.

    Mr. Giwer has no qualifications whatsoever to talk about the German
language. 

    He has also left out the document using the word "Gaskammer" in
reference to Krema V, the word he SWORE was the correct one for a gas
chamber.

    That's six.


>4)  insecticide traces, enough said

    And the letter from Topf about cyanide detectors for the Kremas.  Topf
was not in the delousing business.  Very strange.  That's seven. 

    And the letter from Wetzel to Lohse about the use of the "Brack
device."  Eight. 

    And the letter from Just to Rauff about gassing vans.  Nine.

    And the letter from Becker to Rauff on the same subject.  Corroborated
by Rauff in a 1971 deposition in Chile (no nasty Russian torturers there). 
Ten. 

    Gas-tight door with protective grid on the inside (what, the lice are
going to break out?)  Mr. Giwer claimed this was to protect against flying
glass, but of course he has produced no other such door from a bomb
shelter to support his assertion.  Eleven.

    Inventory sheet listing fourteen showerheads in the "morgue" with not
a single design plan for that room showing shower plumbing - even the
plans that showed all the other listed plumbing.  Same inventory
sheet with "wire-mesh introduction devices" which sound quite a
bit like the Zyklon introduction devices described by witnesses. 
Twelve.

    The Einsatzgruppen reports (I'll be generous and only count them as
one).  Baker's dozen...

    Once again, Mr. Giwer once SWORE that there was ZERO physical
evidence.  He's backpedaling nicely.  I guess there are some lies even he
realizes are too big to try to put over.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 08:58:26 PDT 1996
Article: 69326 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Morris can't even CLARIFY the Bacon quote!
Date: 27 Sep 1996 10:17:53 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <52gnmh$pjk@access5.digex.net>
References: <32415e43.532827@news.pacificnet.net>  <3245c31d.102763544@news.srv.ualberta.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article ,
Jeffrey   wrote:
>In article <3245c31d.102763544@news.srv.ualberta.ca>, John Morris >
>writes
>>Jeffrey  wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The quote by Francis Bacon (1st Baron Verulam and Viscount St Albans)
>>>1561-1626 [from Religious Meditations, 'Of Heresies'] actually reads 
>>
>>>Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. 
>>
>>>And translates as  
>>
>>>- Knowledge itself is power.
>
>So John Morris  wrote 
>
>>
>>What about "nam et"? Didn't the "Collins Gem" translate that for you?
>>Do you know the corresponding idiom in late medieval and early modern
>>English writing? Any clues as to why we no longer use double
>>intensives in English writing? Any suggestions on how the substance of
>>the quote is changed by the absence of the intensive in the
>>translation?
>
>Notice how Mr Morris doesn't respond to my post in which I quote from
>another source, in which the translation and actual phrase differs
>sigificantly from the phrase that Mr Morris quotes.

    Significantly?

    What is the _significant_ difference between "Knowledge is power" and
"Knowledge itself is power?"  I don't see it. 


>He has not responded with a relevant answer. Notice how Mr Morris AVOIDS
>responding to my post, and indeed any attempt to clarify the actual
>meaning of Francis Bacon's quote. All, he can do is to ask ME 3
>questions, a clear indication he has no answer. 

    You are the one making the claim that there is a SIGNIFICANT
difference.  You are the one who needs to provide an explanation.  If I
said, "Jeff drives a large car," and John reported that I said "Jeff
drives a big car," would you say that there was a SIGNIFICANT difference
between my words and his?

    If you do, I'd also have to go along with the "major loon"
assessment....


>His remark in connection with Anne Frank [- Still picking on little
>girls, jeff?] can only be regarded as offensive, in any interpretation
>by English speakers. 

    Why can denying Anne Frank her legitimate accomplishment by
obstinately spreading the false story that her diary was forged _not_ be
regarded as picking on a little dead girl, in any interpretation by
English speakers? 

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 12:20:24 PDT 1996
Article: 87172 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german
Subject: Why I don't believe Beth is real
Supersedes: <52gqpq$s2f@access5.digex.net>
Date: 27 Sep 1996 11:14:53 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <52gr1d$s5p@access5.digex.net>
References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69346 alt.christnet:109165 soc.culture.german:87172

In article ,
  wrote:
>Beth, your post is quite ... interesting. I'd like to respond a bit.
>
>In article <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com>, Beth  wrote:
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Well-known source of antisemitic forged articles.  Connected to one of
the Huber gang.

>>   Just take a Barmitzvah, the rabbi, after circumcizing, takes some wine 
>> into his mouth, places his mouth over the penis and then sucks the blood 
>> out, then he spits it into a contaner. The blood is then used in a holy 
>> blessing. I wonder what Pat Robertson would say about that ?
>
>Now this is where you're going to lose most people here.
> 
>A Bar Mitzvah and a circumcision (bris) are two completely different
>events. One takes place when a boy is 13, the other when he is an infant.

    And if "Beth's" son was being raised Jewish, "she" would know the
difference.

>Beth, I believe you had a bad marriage. I might even believe you lived in
>Israel, although I'd like to know exactly WHERE in Israel you lived.
> 
>But I don't believe you've ever read the Talmud, I don't believe your son
>was circumcized at his Bar Mitzvah, nor do I even believe he WAS Bar
>Mitzvah, since you say you were only married seven years.
> 
>I believe you're an unhappy, hate-filled troll.

    I don't even believe "Beth" is female.

    I don't even believe "Beth" exists.

    I bet an email to the address will bounce.

    Let's find out.  Posted and emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 12:20:25 PDT 1996
Article: 87182 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Why I don't believe Beth is real
Date: 27 Sep 1996 11:18:35 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <52gr8b$sb9@access5.digex.net>
References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com>  <52gr1d$s5p@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69366 alt.christnet:109194 soc.culture.german:87182

In article <52gr1d$s5p@access5.digex.net>,
Michael P. Stein  wrote:
>    I don't even believe "Beth" exists.
>
>    I bet an email to the address will bounce.
>
>    Let's find out.  Posted and emailed.

    Hey, Don Pardo, tell me what I've won.

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
dailey@gramercy.ios.com  (unrecoverable error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to gramercy.ios.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 dailey@gramercy.ios.com... User unknown
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 15:18:19 PDT 1996
Article: 69346 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german
Subject: Why I don't believe Beth is real
Supersedes: <52gqpq$s2f@access5.digex.net>
Date: 27 Sep 1996 11:14:53 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
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References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com> 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69346 alt.christnet:109165 soc.culture.german:87172

In article ,
  wrote:
>Beth, your post is quite ... interesting. I'd like to respond a bit.
>
>In article <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com>, Beth  wrote:
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Well-known source of antisemitic forged articles.  Connected to one of
the Huber gang.

>>   Just take a Barmitzvah, the rabbi, after circumcizing, takes some wine 
>> into his mouth, places his mouth over the penis and then sucks the blood 
>> out, then he spits it into a contaner. The blood is then used in a holy 
>> blessing. I wonder what Pat Robertson would say about that ?
>
>Now this is where you're going to lose most people here.
> 
>A Bar Mitzvah and a circumcision (bris) are two completely different
>events. One takes place when a boy is 13, the other when he is an infant.

    And if "Beth's" son was being raised Jewish, "she" would know the
difference.

>Beth, I believe you had a bad marriage. I might even believe you lived in
>Israel, although I'd like to know exactly WHERE in Israel you lived.
> 
>But I don't believe you've ever read the Talmud, I don't believe your son
>was circumcized at his Bar Mitzvah, nor do I even believe he WAS Bar
>Mitzvah, since you say you were only married seven years.
> 
>I believe you're an unhappy, hate-filled troll.

    I don't even believe "Beth" is female.

    I don't even believe "Beth" exists.

    I bet an email to the address will bounce.

    Let's find out.  Posted and emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 15:18:20 PDT 1996
Article: 69365 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Impossible statistics in "Hoess" memoirs
Date: 27 Sep 1996 11:38:01 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <52gscp$7v@access5.digex.net>
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article ,
Mark Van Alstine  wrote:
>In article , Jeffrey
> wrote:
>
>> "Eichmann expected to recieve from Hungary, according to the estimate of
>> the Hungarian Police, who had carried out the arrests, about 3,000,000
>> jews." 
>
>"Acording to the estimate from the Hungarian police who had carried out
>the arrests, Eichmann expected to recieve about three million Jews from
>Hungary. 
>
>"The arrests and transportation should have been completed by 1943, but
>because the Hungarian government's political difficulties, the date was
>always postponed.
>
>"In particular the Hungarian army, or rather the senior officers, were
>opposed to the extradition of these people and gave most of the Jewish men
>a a refuge in the labor companies of the front line divisions, thus
>keeping them out of the grasp of the police.
>
>"When in the fall of 1944 an action was started in Budapest itself, only
>old and sick Jewish men remained. 
>
>"All together there were probably not more than half a million Jews
>transported out of Hungary." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.46.) 

    Funny how Jeff left that part out of his quote.

    I think this is a LOT more significant than the difference between
"Knowledge is power" and "Knowledge itself is power" which Jeff went on
and on about with John Morris.

    In fact, I think any honest and intelligent speaker of English would
agree.

    I wonder if Jeff would care to explain this apparent double standard.

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 15:18:21 PDT 1996
Article: 69366 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Why I don't believe Beth is real
Date: 27 Sep 1996 11:18:35 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <52gr8b$sb9@access5.digex.net>
References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com>  <52gr1d$s5p@access5.digex.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69366 alt.christnet:109194 soc.culture.german:87182

In article <52gr1d$s5p@access5.digex.net>,
Michael P. Stein  wrote:
>    I don't even believe "Beth" exists.
>
>    I bet an email to the address will bounce.
>
>    Let's find out.  Posted and emailed.

    Hey, Don Pardo, tell me what I've won.

   ----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----
dailey@gramercy.ios.com  (unrecoverable error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to gramercy.ios.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 dailey@gramercy.ios.com... User unknown
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 17:39:01 PDT 1996
Article: 92797 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.drunken.bastard,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white.power,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: McVay caught lying!
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: 27 Sep 1996 12:11:07 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <52guar$1pi@access5.digex.net>
References:  <52c2t2$n5r@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52f317$san@access5.digex.net> <52fh4a$qad@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:570 alt.conspiracy:92797 alt.revisionism:69479 alt.usenet.kooks:29514

In article <52fh4a$qad@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>,
Ken McVay OBC  wrote:
>As has been the case for some time, Mr. Giwer is all mouth, no
>facts. The only fact, in fact, he seems comfortable with, is
>the view from the bottom of an empty Cherry Jack bottle.

    That is a LIE and YOU KNOW IT.  Mr. Giwer has CLEARLY stated that
"Milwaukee's Best" is his drug of choice.  Article ID
<4geksj$lbj@wi.combase.com>, 2/21/96.  (He probably can't afford anything
better.) 

    Of course this means that even the name of his beer is a lie.  How
fitting....
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 19:14:45 PDT 1996
Article: 29514 of alt.usenet.kooks
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.drunken.bastard,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white.power,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: McVay caught lying!
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: 27 Sep 1996 12:11:07 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <52guar$1pi@access5.digex.net>
References:  <52c2t2$n5r@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52f317$san@access5.digex.net> <52fh4a$qad@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:570 alt.conspiracy:92797 alt.revisionism:69479 alt.usenet.kooks:29514

In article <52fh4a$qad@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>,
Ken McVay OBC  wrote:
>As has been the case for some time, Mr. Giwer is all mouth, no
>facts. The only fact, in fact, he seems comfortable with, is
>the view from the bottom of an empty Cherry Jack bottle.

    That is a LIE and YOU KNOW IT.  Mr. Giwer has CLEARLY stated that
"Milwaukee's Best" is his drug of choice.  Article ID
<4geksj$lbj@wi.combase.com>, 2/21/96.  (He probably can't afford anything
better.) 

    Of course this means that even the name of his beer is a lie.  How
fitting....
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Fri Sep 27 19:17:50 PDT 1996
Article: 69505 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: LOOK!!!! I CAN SPEAK HEBREW
Date: 27 Sep 1996 10:34:14 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <52gol6$qbu@access5.digex.net>
References: <52gm7v$gr6@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52gm7v$gr6@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>,
Marduk posing as Matt Giwer  wrote:
>Having a confirmed I.Q. of 160, I have just completed a crash course in 
>Modern Hebrew and am now completely fluent.
>
>"ANI MAMZER BEN CHAZIR, ASHER OHEV LEECHOL CHARAH."

    Having a high IQ myself, I am completely fluent in article headers. 
(Ani daber Usenet.)

    You need to get a worldnet.att.net account.  That's where Matt is
posting from now since Netcom cracked down on his net abuse.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Sun Sep 29 11:52:07 PDT 1996
Article: 69992 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenburg quotes--faked?
Date: 26 Sep 1996 19:51:46 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <52f4ui$qm@access5.digex.net>
References:  <52d9hf$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52d9hf$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
>>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
>>  From time to time we see quotes from Russian-Jewish writer Ilya
>>  Ehrenburg encouraging atrocious behavior against Germans. I was
>>  looking through an issue of NEW REPUBLIC a few days ago and noticed
>>  a review of a new biography of Ehrenburg, who seems, like Zamyatin,
>>  to have enjoyed a curious immunity from Stalin's purges. The
>>  review mentions that certain words of Ehrenburg circulated by the
>>  "right wing", urging vengeance against Germans, are in fact a 
>>  forgery. 
>>  
>>  Can anyone out there post Ehrenburg's anti-German exhortations 
>>  together with a checkable primary source? If not, I think we 
>>  should all assume that such quotes are bogus.
>>  
>>>>>
>Assume makes an ass out of you but not out of me.  The quotes are not
>bogus.  There are a number of books in Europe which reprint some of the
>original incitements to murder......this is not even debateable.

    And there are thousands of books which reprint German documents about
gassing.  Why do you claim those documents are debatable (i.e., Soviet
forgeries) but the authenticity of Ehrenburg's statement about raping
German women is not debatable?  Do I detect an inconsistency in your
standards of evidence here?  (Do I ask rhetorical questions?)

    A simple question: what is the primary source of this supposed
Ehrenburg quote?


>Why do you
>think he survived so long-he was Stalin's pet "perrito". He also happened to
>be "Chief Theoretrician of the Communist Party".  

    Interesting; the New Republic article also said he was never actually
a member of the Party, though of course he did work for it.

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 30 11:57:54 PDT 1996
Article: 70211 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer's New .sig
Date: 30 Sep 1996 10:59:46 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <52on92$j2j@access5.digex.net>
References: <51q518$n1j@news.enter.net> <3248bcf4.29720343@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <52es0m$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52h9d0$k1l@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52h9d0$k1l@bell.maths.tcd.ie>,
Derek Bell  wrote:
>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>Nizkor
>>	Directed by an American currently employed by a US Department of
>>Defense contractor and who hosts Nizkor on the internet access of 1B Systems.
>>It is perhaps one of the largest collections of copyrighted material carried
>>without the permission of and in cases contrary to the objections of the
>>copyright holders.  It also knowingly libels people and continues to do so
>>after they have been formally notified that their information is false.  
>
>	Ok, Matt. Which materials are yours and which are libelous?
>
>	I think you'll have to swallow your pride and admit that you did lie.

    Huh?  But he did that some time ago.  Check out:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 30 11:57:55 PDT 1996
Article: 70251 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIZKOR and McVay are afraid to debate Winston Smith !!!!!!
Date: 30 Sep 1996 11:10:09 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <52onsh$jqk@access5.digex.net>
References: <52ivn1$ija@news.ios.com>  <52kovd$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52kovd$69m@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:59:08 -0400, jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
>
>>Greg Matson  wrote:
>
>>> The super hero Ken McVay will not debate Winston Smith on the fraud of 
>>> the Holocaust. Mcvay has retruned all Smith's e-mail and has run like the 
>>> communist pinko he is, with his tail behind his liberal legs.
>
>>Ken McVay, I'm sure, would be happy to discuss anything about the Holocaust
>>here in public, on alt.revisionism.
>
>	No he will not.  When it gets too hard he killfiles people and runs 
>away.  

    The Giwer technique, when it gets too hard, is to lie brazenly.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html


>	Little dumbshit coward he.  

    How can one have a debate with a liar, liar?
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 30 13:17:29 PDT 1996
Article: 70291 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jahring letter a forgery.
Date: 30 Sep 1996 12:00:06 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <52oqq6$olp@access5.digex.net>
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com> <323e1a8e.603090@news.inetport.com> <52a3hb$fj3@access5.digex.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article ,
Jeffrey   wrote:
>I think here that that it seems that the Jahring document, which
>suggests over 4000 cadavers could be cremated in one day is a forgery.

    If being wrong were evidence of forgery, then all U. S. government
documents from the Vietnam era which report enemy body counts are
forgeries - they too are now known to be wildly inflated.


>Even Mr Keren, finds the figures quoted in this document totally at odds
>with reality. [i recall that Mr Keren suggested an alternative of about
>700. A very significant reduction from the 4000 figure.]
>It is of very great weight that as Mr David Irving pointed out that the
>document has a "janatorial" security rating, which to all disinterested
>persons can indicate a matter of very low importance.

    The fact that the document is a copy makes it of somewhat less weight,
I think.  As I said, it needs to be determined whose copy it is - an SS
file copy or a postwar copy.

    Posted/emailed.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 30 18:46:11 PDT 1996
Article: 70404 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!spring.edu.tw!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the zero, no three, no four, no, um...
Date: 30 Sep 1996 17:24:53 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 281
Message-ID: <52pdr5$j0r@access5.digex.net>
References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52f3up$t17@access5.digex.net> <52hcli$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52hcli$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 26 Sep 1996 19:34:49 -0400, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>>>
>>>     The four pieces of physical evidence of the extermination of 
>>>12 million people.  
>
>>    Gee, first it was zero, then three, now four.
>
>	This is exactly the four things I have been saying for weeks.  
>Are you going to pretend you have not been following the conference
>again?

    How many different articles containing your assertion that there was
ZERO physical evidence do you want mailed to you?

    How many of your articles claiming THREE "questionable" documents do
you want mailed to you?

    How many of your proven lies do you want mailed to you?


>>>1)  Ausrotten speech, suspected of being by Himmler, exists only 
>>>as a recording, not known if ever presented
>
>>    Nope, Himmler's handwritten notes also exist.  That's five.
>
>	Of course they do.  Keren told you so.  You just keep believing that 
>jew traitor.

    Your lack of a cogent response is noted.  Your descent into
name-calling in response to my questioning your assertion is also noted.


>>>2)  Wannsee Protocol, which discusses forced emigration but 
>>>otherwise appears to have been unimplemented 
>>>
>>>3)  Vergassnungkeller letter, which uses a word form theretofore 
>>>unknown in the German language that is construed to mean gas 
>>>chamber despite the composing words and the structure of the 
>>>sentence in which it is used.
>
>>    Mr. Giwer has no qualifications whatsoever to talk about the German
>>language. 
>
>	You holohuggers have given me the information in your claims that 
>this is evidence.

    Yes, it is evidence.  And your objection is groundless given that you
have no qualifications in the German language.  In fact, I should have
mentioned that you are not competent in the English language either.  You
provide further evidence for this below.


>>    He has also left out the document using the word "Gaskammer" in
>>reference to Krema V, the word he SWORE was the correct one for a gas
>>chamber.
>
>>    That's six.
>
>	As you know I have posted the overall picture of Birkenau.  There is 
>no such building near K V.  So that one is out.  It has been out for a
>long time.

    It was _part_ of Krema V, not _near_ it.  You are the one who should
pay attention to the conference.  Learning to read would also be nice.

    As you know, I pointed out that Krema V was outside of camera range in
the picture 'fndaerab.jpg' which you posted.  You might as well use that
picture to prove that the Washington Monument does not exist, since it
does not appear in the picture.


>>>4)  insecticide traces, enough said
>
>>    And the letter from Topf about cyanide detectors for the Kremas.  Topf
>>was not in the delousing business.  Very strange.  That's seven. 
>
>	That is leaping to a conclusion from facts not in evidence.  AS WE 
>KNOW from the diligent research of the holohuggers, Topf did not design
>or build the Kremas, only the actual ovens themselves.

    Find one other example of Topf being in the delousing business.  If
you cannot, the point stands.  The point about Topf not building the
Kremas is completely irrelevant.


>	So your conclusion is not related to the evidence at hand.

    I repeat: find one example of Topf being in the delousing business.
If you cannot, the point stands.  You are in essence asking me to prove a
negative, something you yourself have said cannot be done.


>>    And the letter from Wetzel to Lohse about the use of the "Brack
>>device."  Eight. 
>
>	I asked a long time ago, what is a Brack device and no one could 
>answer the question.  But before you jump in with some fanciful
>invention, a room is not a device.  Fact is, no one knows what a "Brack
>device" was supposed to be.

    It was for eliminating those unfit for work.  That is explicit in the
letter.  Therefore it is not necessary to know exactly what it is in order
to know that it is for extermination.  Therefore your objection is
irrelevant. The letter stands as evidence for mass murder.  (Based on the
history of the euthanasia program, it is probable that it was something
for introducing carbon monoxide.)


>>    And the letter from Just to Rauff about gassing vans.  Nine.
>
>	Yes, Degesh manufactured mobile delousing chambers.  Yes, Germany had 
>thousands of vehicles that ran on generated carbon monoxide.  And
>finally, NO, no one has ever found van modified for exterminating people
>but there is plenty of stupid testimony about them.

    And this document.  You claim this document is about delousing
chambers?  Let's look at some text from that document, you tell me if you
still think it is about lice. 

    "Besides, this extends the operating time, as the empty void must be
filled with carbon monoxide." 

    So you claim Degesch mobile delousing chambers used carbon monoxide
instead of Zyklon?

    "The manufacturers told us during a discussion that reducing the size
of the van's rear would throw it badly off balance.  The front axle, they
claim, would be overloaded.  In fact, the balance is automatically
restored, because the merchandise aboard displays during the operation a
natural tendency to rush to the rear doors, an is mainly found lying there
at the end of the operation." 

   What smart lice!  They rush the doors!

   What a dumb Giwer.

   What heavy lice!  They affect the balance of the vehicle!

   What an unbalanced Giwer.

    "Also, because of the alarming nature of darkness, screaming always
occurs when the doors are closed."

    Matt Giwer thinks that lice scream!

    Matt Giwer _is_ a scream.


>>    And the letter from Becker to Rauff on the same subject.  Corroborated
>>by Rauff in a 1971 deposition in Chile (no nasty Russian torturers there). 
>>Ten. 
>
>	You will have to post that some time.

    It has been posted many times.  What was that about paying attention
to the conference?

    Go to DejaNews.  Filter your search on alt.revisionism and search for
the words "Becker" and "Rauff."  Read the article posted by Daniel Keren
on 9/11/96 under the title "Dr. August Becker implements National
Socialism."  Then amuse us all by trying to claim that this one is about
delousing chambers.  Or do you expect us to believe they took lice
prisoner? 



>>    Gas-tight door with protective grid on the inside (what, the lice are
>>going to break out?)  Mr. Giwer claimed this was to protect against flying
>>glass, but of course he has produced no other such door from a bomb
>>shelter to support his assertion.  Eleven.
>
>	Excuse me when we were discussing that, everyone in the discussion 
>agreed that was the door on LK I leading to the outdoors.

    So agreement makes truth? 

    Moreover, you have lied and hallucinated so often about what was said
here that I will not accept your assertions about what was said.  Give a
quote with author, date, and article ID, or a DejaNews search strategy, or
give it up.  Your eyewitness testimony about what was said in this
conference makes John Dean look like archival videotape.


>NOW we have holohuggers insisting
>the gas chamber was an interior room of LK I.  That door is no longer under
>discussion as it is not the door to the interior room.  You really should keep
>up with the conference materials.

    I cannot keep up with your hallucinations and lies.

    The door is still under discussion despite your "Because!  I!  Say!
So!" attempt to evade it.
  

>>    Inventory sheet listing fourteen showerheads in the "morgue" with not
>>a single design plan for that room showing shower plumbing - even the
>>plans that showed all the other listed plumbing.  Same inventory
>>sheet with "wire-mesh introduction devices" which sound quite a
>>bit like the Zyklon introduction devices described by witnesses. 
>>Twelve.
>
>	Sorry about that but I have posted the testimony of water coming out 
>of them by a witness under oath.

    Yes, but nowhere did it specify which building he was in.  There were
real showers in Birkenau, but they were in a different building known as
the Saunas.


>You must not have looked hard enough for the connecting
>plumbing.  That copper plumbing is missing now is hardly surprising.

    As I said, you cannot even read English correctly.  Look again at what
I said above.  Notice the word "plans."  I guess that word is too
complicated for your tiny mind to grasp

    But since you claim that lice can scream, I should not be too
surprised.


>	Again, you need to pay more attention to the conference.

    You need to learn how to read.  Again, Heller never said which
building he was in.  Therefore you have posted nothing relevant to the
showers in LK1.  If the complexity of the building layout in Birkenau
is too complicated for your mind to grasp, that is your problem.


>>    The Einsatzgruppen reports (I'll be generous and only count them as
>>one).  Baker's dozen...
>
>	I have already pointed out the fraudulent nature of the one Keren 
>loves to post.  You really do need to pay attention.

    Your unsupported assertions are worthless, given that you are a
confessed liar.

    You really do need to start posting references.



>>    Once again, Mr. Giwer once SWORE that there was ZERO physical
>>evidence.  He's backpedaling nicely.  I guess there are some lies even he
>>realizes are too big to try to put over.
>
> As I pointed out those four items are the only examples of physical
>evidence that have so far survived analysis in this conference.  That you
>have not been paying attention is your problem.

    That you are a liar and illiterate who hallucinates things never
said in this conference is your problem.


>If you consider those four items strong enough to be the ONLY physical to
>cover 12 million murders that only demonstrates your belief in the
>conclusion regardless of the evidence. 

    If you consider your lies, misreadings, and unsupported asswertions a
refutation of any of the other pieces of physical evidence, that only
demonstrates that you are not only a liar, but an idiot as well.

    You have admitted yourself that you are a liar.  Why should anyone
believe you about what was said in this conference if you cannot give
attributed quotes or checkable references?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

    And do please tell us some more about those screaming lice in the
letter from Just to Rauff.  You could make a great contribution to
entomology.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 30 19:13:07 PDT 1996
Article: 70406 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Giwer admits he is dickless
Date: 30 Sep 1996 17:47:14 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <52pf52$khq@access5.digex.net>
References: <52euum$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52fc70$a8@news.enter.net> <52hr63$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52hr63$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>	Yes, folks, it is true.  This man has no dick.  
>
> As long as there is no penalty he will call names and make allegations,
>even charge me with criminal activities.  But will dickless file a formal
>complaint?  No way.  That puts him on the line. 

    Yes, that's exactly what we all thought about you when you accused
Gordon McFee of being Marduk and making criminal harrassing phone calls. 

    Still waiting on that copyright complaint you said you were filing,
too.

    Glad to see you agree that you were and are dickless.

    And of course we also have your agreement that you are a deliberate
liar.  I can certainly see why you might be so upset about the archiving
of that particular article.

    Too bad.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/index-lies.html

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Mon Sep 30 20:37:39 PDT 1996
Article: 70428 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!serv.hinet.net!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!spring.edu.tw!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: 30 Sep 1996 18:50:35 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <52pirr$p8n@access5.digex.net>
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <529e99$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52a15s$c97@access5.digex.net> <52cjh5$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52cjh5$ae8@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 24 Sep 1996 21:16:44 -0400, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <529e99$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>
>>> The question was, do you want me to post the picture again?  That is a
>>>very simple question.  That way you can see for yourself that there are
>>>no other buildings connected with IV or V.  If you do not want to look at
>>>the picture and still declare the connected buildings are there, that is
>>>acting like a holohugger. 
>
>>    Excuse me, but if the aerial photo you are referring to is the one you
>>called 'fndaerab.jpg,' it is a bit hard to figure out how it can tell you
>>anything about Kremas IV and V, given that they are outside the picture to
>>the right.  The photo shows Kremas II and III only.
>
>>    Nine months of discussion and our 163 IQ type still has no idea of the
>>layout at Birkenau. 
>
>>    If Mr. Giwer still insists that fndaerab.jpg supports his assertion
>>about Krema V, that is acting like a crazy liar. 
>
>	IV and V are clearly at the bottom left.  Do I need to annotate the 
>picture for the near-sighted?  

    How could a blind man do that? 


>Then can not be outside to the right as IV and V were at the opposite end 
>of the camp from II and III.  As II and III are at the top, they can not
>be to the right.

    Go look at

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/birkenau-011445.jpg

Everyone except Matt Giwer can clearly see where the image Matt Giwer
posted fits into the larger picture.  What he thinks are Kremas IV and V
are at the bottom of the Women's Camp, in the _middle_ of Section I, not
at the "opposite end." 

    Kremas IV and V were to the right of the top of Mr. Giwer's picture,
just as I said they were.  (This particular picture was taken 14th January
1945, after IV had been destroyed.)

    Mr. Giwer is of course a confessed liar - check out

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html

but in this case I think his problem is imbecility, not dishonesty. 

    It is now ten months and our 163 IQ type STILL does not know the
layout of Birkenau, even though the pictures have been there for him to
look at all this time.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From mstein@access5.digex.net Tue Oct  1 01:39:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70489 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leave it To Giwer (Re: Where is our german linguist?) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1) - fndaerab.jpg (0/1)
Date: 30 Sep 1996 19:18:29 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <52pkg5$ren@access5.digex.net>
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <524lr6$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5299r9$71h@access5.digex.net> <52ckqe$2bh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net

In article <52ckqe$2bh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>On 24 Sep 1996 14:38:33 -0400, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <524lr6$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>Matt  Giwer  wrote:
>>>On Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:46:43 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>>>>3) Another document is presented, which mentions a "gaskammer"
>>>>   in Krema V.
>>>
>
>>> But, if you would ever take the time to examine the real aerial photos
>>>you will find there are no buildings connected to the Krema V that could
>>>be it and it had not cellar.  And you know that.  Should I post it again?
>
>>    Please do, or provide the URL so we can see which photo you are
>>misinterpreting or lying about.  
>
>It will be attached to this response.  It will also be the third time I have
>posted it.  It is not clear how you have missed it.

    You've posted several; I need to make sure I'm looking at the right
one.  Now that I am sure that you _are_ talking about fndaerab.jpg, I
_know_ you are a complete idiot.


>But congratulations for finally realizing
>>that Krema V had no cellar.  How long did it take you?
>
>	How long did it take you to reallize that the cellar we have been 
>discussing all these months is a separate building? 

    It is not.  Where did you get that terminally stupid idea?  Obviously
another byproduct of your illiteracy and general mental confusion.


>>    Remember, your mapreading skills are known to be poor.  Have you
>>finally figured out where the Holocaust Museum is, and more importantly
>>where it is not (i.e., on the Mall)? 
>
>	Yes, asshole, I have always known where it is.

    If you always knew where it was then you had to know it is separated
>from  the Mall by the Auditor's Building which houses the Forest Service.
Yet you said it was on the Mall.  We now have your admission that this was
a deliberate lie.  Thank you. 


>Have you finally figured out the street it is one is not named after one
>of only two other people to receive the honor?

    It is on Raul Wallenberg Place.  That is its mailing address.  There
is, however, another entrance on 14th St.

    I see you still have not figured out how to write a coherent,
grammatical English sentence.

    You can't even read a picture correctly.

    Get back to us when you learn that modest skill.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



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