The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/s/snow/2007/snow.200712


From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:54 EST 2007
Article: 1233369 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597404 soc.culture.german:379754 soc.culture.jewish:1801073 soc.culture.israel:1662496 alt.revisionism:1233369
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism
References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: <_2g8j.5278$NY.2764@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197575482 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: TSU[@ION_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:50:27 -0500



"Doomsday Cultist"  wrote in message 
news:13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Majdanek Death Statistics
> When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet
> Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been
> murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg International
> Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in
> November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million.
>
> In December 2005, the Majdanek Museum announced that Lublin scholar Tomasz
> Kranz has established that the Nazis murdered 78,000 people at the 
> Majdanek
> concentration camp. This revision is the culmination of years of research 
> in
> which the number of deaths at Majdanek has steadily dwindled down to only 
> a
> fraction of the original estimate by the Soviet liberators.
>
> http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/DeathStatistics.html
>
>
>
> During the Communist regime, which lasted until 1989, all Polish citizens
> were encouraged to go on government-sponsored group tours to the former 
> Nazi
> concentration camps as part of their indoctrination in hatred of the
> opponents of Communism. According to the tour guide, Polish schools taught 
> a
> censored version of history during the Communist rule, leaving out such
> details as the Russian invasion of Poland in 1920, but emphasizing the
> crimes of the Nazi Fascists.
>
>
>
> http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek.html
>
>
>
>


so true.  Polish educational system thought us that Russians are liberators 
and we even had to learn Russian song and some Russian poem.  They didn’t 
teach us that Red Army invaded Poland, but liberated Poles. Also Katyn 
massacre was thought as a Nazi crime.  As far as work camp data, I don't 
trust communist data as it was plain propaganda and numbers were 
exaggerated. Now even though the number had been lowered, Zionist will still 
claim 6 million victims as I learned recently the number has some religions 
meaning to Jews.
Again if I could ask Mr. McVay to break down 6 million number, I would 
really appreciate it. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:54 EST 2007
Article: 1233370 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233370
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <13m11i8jmc8glf8@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: O/T  Windows XP glitch ??
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197575828 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:57:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:57:08 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: T[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRJVMHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:56:13 -0500



"Doc Tony"  wrote in message 
news:13m11i8jmc8glf8@corp.supernews.com...
>
> O/T -- Anyone -- on my wife's laptop computer using Windows XP-Pro, she 
> doesn't know what was clicked but, how to explain this, what normally 
> appears on the 'bottom' of the XP-Pro screen with the START logo and the 
> system tray icons suddenly have re-positioned themselves all on the LEFT 
> side of the screen! I did the right click of the mouse thing but all that 
> has is re-arranging the icons but I can't get the thing back to the bottom 
> of the screen where it belongs! What can I do to get the screen looking 
> 'normal' again? Everything works but it's become vertical on the left side 
> side of the screen! Anyone? TIA!
>
> Doc Tony
> ;-)
>
>
> BTW, this too while I'm here, as a Christmas present, I'm getting her a 
> faster laptop [while I'll take the older one and put it to flight sim 
> usage forthwith for avionics 'drag-n-drop' usage] with a 17" screen using 
> a Core Duo CPU et al goodies and I did 'NOT' want the VISTA O/S until 
> those bugs are taken out of the thing so the machine is coming [Friday 
> actually] loaded with "a COA and Windows XP Media Edition O/S" -- What's 
> the essential difference in this  XP "media edition" from Windows XP Home 
> Edition or XP-Pro O/S?
>
> And hopefully, this Windows XP Media Edition has [which XP-Pro has and why 
> I like 'Pro' over the Home Edition] that built-in 'recovery' gizmo that 
> can come to the rescue [and has!] when there's a serious glitch and the 
> machine resets itself with a box that pops up after the reset and informs 
> the user that the machine has had a "serious error" [or words to that 
> effect] but it resets itself just fine with no problems when the 'blue 
> screen' glitch ever occurs. Does "Windows XP Media Edition" have this 
> known XP-Pro "automatic recovery" feature?
>
> Thanks again. Public or email. Pat, Tommy, Ben, Gord [previous machine woe 
> input and O/T so, as always, side aside!] , ... Anyone!!!
>
>
>

click on the taskbar and drag it to the bottom or wherever you want the 
taskbar to be. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:55 EST 2007
Article: 1233373 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.conspiracy:1297120 alt.politics:3274745 alt.revisionism:1233373
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics,alt.revisionism
References:  <20071212194037.70afc944@suddenlink.net> 
Subject: Re: Wiener "Savage" on a roll tonight!
Lines: 2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197576153 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:02:33 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:02:33 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: TSU[@ION_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:01:37 -0500



"Luke Nichols"  wrote in message 
news:MQ48j.939$5_3.535@newsfe07.lga...
>
> "127.0.0.1" <127.0.0.1@127.0.0.1> wrote in message 
> news:20071212194037.70afc944@suddenlink.net...
>> On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:36:41 -0500
>> "Luke Nichols"  wrote:
>>
>>> Good ole Michael.  He's on a rant party on tonight's broadcast.  I
>>> think he'd really love a world with only Jews in it.
>>>
>>
>> What's he ranting about now? He was going ballistic over that
>> intelligence report that proved Iran stopped nuclear production in 2003.
>> Savage, Sara and the rest of the NeoCons though they were going to get
>> more American blood and treasure to fight another proxy-war for Israel
>> in Iran, doesn't look like that is going to happen.
>
> Oh, he'd be happy to destroy everyone on the planet but him and the Jews.
>
>
>

follow Zionist media such as fox or cnn and Zionist news casters. I already 
watched glen beck yesterday and he had a Israeli ambassador to usa from nyc 
and he kept saying American intelligence is flawed because they said Iraq 
had WMDs. ROFL It was hilarious as I recall it was Israel who kept saying 
that Iraq does have wmds and CIA based its report on Israeli intelligence 
back then and now this Israeli ambassador is blaming CIA for being 
incorrect.
Just because this ambassador was on TV shows that Israel is going to try to 
discredit new CIA report on Iran nuclear program. Watch for more Israeli 
clowns on American TV. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:55 EST 2007
Article: 1233374 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233374 soc.history:230661
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
References:    
Subject: Re: Excellent article by Bacque on Wikipedia Censorship
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197576326 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:05:26 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:05:26 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: TSUGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHPIMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:04:32 -0500



"perfumeTheMovie"  wrote in message 
news:d238369b-270c-4700-9971-523fdb8f8242@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 13, 1:28 am, "Richard Warren"  wrote:
>> "It's all a bit strange"  wrote in
>> messagenews:Xns9A04DE6E6B45ETBAnoonecarescom@85.214.90.236...
>>
>> > perfumeTheMovie  wrote in
>> > news:c6a16c98-31af-4d33-8054-9ad4471d79f3
>> > @e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >>    Why is Wikipedia Censoring Me?
>> >>     by James Bacque
>>
>> > According to cramwich, Bacque is only getting his fair due.
>>
>> Note that the article is on an antisemitic website.
>
> The website in question is not antisemitic.  There is nothing on there
> that shows hatred towards the Jewish people.

Yet revisionist Dick Warren finds the site anti-Semitic. I wonder what he 
based that on? 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:55 EST 2007
Article: 1233375 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.music.rush:631175 alt.fan.adolf-hitler:18228 alt.movies.spielberg:32835 alt.revisionism:1233375
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,alt.fan.adolf-hitler,alt.movies.spielberg,alt.revisionism
References: <76e586e4-3fc5-4da6-a4a1-dc0f20852a83@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <1197482251_23@sp6iad.superfeed.net>
Subject: Re: Loyal to Hitler til his death, just like Heinz Schaeffer
Lines: 12
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: <6jg8j.5284$NY.94@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197576514 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:34 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:34 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BJ]Q]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:07:38 -0500



"Sir Salman Rushdie"  wrote in message 
news:1197482251_23@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
>
> "LIBERATOR"  wrote in message 
> news:76e586e4-3fc5-4da6-a4a1-dc0f20852a83@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=501310&in_page_id=1811
>>
>> There are many men like this that have been too silent.
>>
>> He says Auschwitz was a 10 star hotel and the Jews lived well,
>> survived well under the rule of Adolf Hitler - and they did, I put in
>> swimming pools and broadway theaters and baseball diamond/fields, they
>> had the life as prisoners in my Germany - better than if they were
>> citizens in Communist USSR and Ayn Rand will vouch for that...
>>
>
> You do realise that you really have gone off the deep end?
> The UFO business scared off your boyfriend Topaz, and your inane posts 
> serve simply to make the rest of us laugh at you.
> I actually almost feel sorry for you, but then I remember what an 
> objectionable cunt you really are.

Good one. I find this bozo amusing but finally I had to kill file him 
because it was getting annoying, he replies to every post with one liners 
that have nothing to do with anything but personal attacks or name calling. 
He is so idiotic that alt.revisionism Zionists even ignore threads where 
this bozo is active.

>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet 
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ 
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption 
> =----  



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:55 EST 2007
Article: 1233376 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233376 soc.history:230662
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
References:  
Subject: Re: Woman sexually abused by seven Roman Catholic priests
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: <0kg8j.5285$NY.951@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197576572 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:09:32 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:09:32 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: TSU[@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:37 -0500



"Grande Mal"  wrote in message 
news:ESL7j.56487$Zn.48506@edtnps90...
>
> "It's all a bit strange"  wrote in 
> message news:Xns9A03EB6D4B025TBAnoonecarescom@85.214.90.236...
>>
>>
>> LOS ANGELES - A woman who was sexually abused by seven Roman
>> Catholic priests and had a baby by one of them received a
>> $500,000 settlement from America's largest archdiocese.
>>
>
> This is so far off-topic, I have to ask- why did you post it?

the guy is an idiot. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:55 EST 2007
Article: 1233390 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233390
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References:  <13lr3ttqobe394a@corp.supernews.com>  <13lrkt6la8rbpa8@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: Another reason to excavate the Treblinka artifacts
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197577113 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:18:33 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:18:33 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: TSU[@ION_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:17:37 -0500



"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
news:13lrkt6la8rbpa8@corp.supernews.com...
> In article ,
> Leading Revisionist Scholar Snow  wrote:
>
>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>news:13lr3ttqobe394a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> [...]
>
>>> Since there were no "steam chambers," and no one was charged, tried, or
>>> convicted of "murder by steam chamber," who cares?
>
>>I do, but never heard of steaming chambers but I would like to know if 
>>they
>>reference gaskellers or dampfkellers.
>
> I'm sure you'll figure it out in due course, Leading Revisionist Liar 
> Snow.
>
> In the meantime...
>
> Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention
> inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you
> the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions
> with documentary evidence.
>
> Question 1:
>
> On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: 
> ,
> you made the claim:
>
> 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek.
>
> http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source -
>
> Please document your claim or retract it.


I clicked on the above link and it only talks about Auschwitz and says 
nothing about Majdanek.  Why do you twist other peoples words.  Since you 
are such a great revisionist scholar you could provide some info if they 
reference gaskellers or dampfkellers.  Or perhaps you don't know and are 
still searching internet for the answer. Please if you do find an answer, 
post it here and then you can add it to your Nizkor Project.



>
> Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote:
>
> "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews."
>
> Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal
> gassings are a "myth."
>
> Question 3:
>
> On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they
> could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to
> whom and actually has very little to do with achievements."
>
> Please document these claims or retract them.
>
> Question 4:
>
> On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated
> that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite."
>
> Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which
> I made such a statement.
>
> Question 5:
>
> In article ,
>
> you wrote:
>
> "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free 
> speech
> rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the
> teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as
> "Revisionism" -- and won."
>
> Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" 
> as
> you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said:
>
>   Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville,
> Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982.
> In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then
> 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting
> hatred against an identifiable group by communicating
> anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by
> a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of
> Queen's Bench.
>
>   Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil
> qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as
> ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'',
> ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He
> taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy
> Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy,
> chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews
> ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast
> to the open and honest Christians, were said to be
> deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra
> expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class
> and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered.
>
>   Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of
> Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on
> a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of
> the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of
> expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among
> the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the
> defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates
> the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was
> dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter
> tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the
> Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues.
> The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and
> it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals.
>
>   The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario,
> Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress,
> Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith,
> Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund
> (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the
> Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has
> intervened in support of striking down the impugned
> legislation.
>
> Question 6:
>
> In article , you wrote:
>
> "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written 
> by
> Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization."
>
> Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all 
> "Holocaust
> supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors.
>
> Question 7:
>
> On July 30, 2007, you wrote:
>
> "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi
> Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't
> deal directly with Nazi Germany.
>
> "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy
> companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people
> didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs."
>
> Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews"
> involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank
> owners."
>
> Question 8:
>
> On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust 
> supporting
> articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization."
>
> Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a
> comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their 
> authors,
> and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by
> Jewish organizations."
>
> Question 9:
>
> On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members
> who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are
> the forefront of such edits."
>
> Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews
> being in the "forefront of such edits."
>
> Question 10:
>
> On August 5, 2007, you wrote:
>
>>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed
>>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/
>
> ...and...
>
>>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would
>>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash
>>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of
>>propaganda)
>
> Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we
> find, shall we?
>
> In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the 
> Polish
> Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary
> Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination
> Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of
> their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting
> and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five
> hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of
> the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such
> as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders,
> Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews."
>
> In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01
> we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates
> were gassed at Maidanek."
>
> (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow
> notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is,
> he is lying - again.)
>
> The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar
> (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews*
> were murdered there.
>
> The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek 
> written by
> Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed
> through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died,
> sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, 
> hanging,
> or being shot."
>
> Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims 
> were Jews.
>
> Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit:
>
> "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article
> (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the
> transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd
> appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to 
> determine
> if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us."
>
>>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would
>>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash
>>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of
>>propaganda)
>
> Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow,
> now tha they have been exposed.
>
> Question 11:
>
> In article , on August 15,
> 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a
> pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..."
>
> Please document when and where any of my children have
> made such statements or admit you cannot.
>
> Question 12:
>
> In article , posted on
> August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation:
>
> "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud."
>
> Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it.
>
> If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all
> means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is,
> in and of itself, a crime.
>
> -- 
> "...the antisemite is immune to refutation from either facts or logic.
>  An antisemite has chosen to live in hatred, without regard to either
>                 facts or logic." (Matas, David. Bloody Speech, p. 37)
>                             The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:56 EST 2007
Article: 1233428 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us soc.history:230676 alt.revisionism:1233428
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.revisionism
References:  
Subject: Re: New Bible For Modern Minds - Jesus probably never existed. Nor did Santa Claus
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1197588577 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:29:37 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:29:37 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:28:42 -0500



"It's all a bit strange"  wrote in 
message news:Xns9A0599009AC9FTBAnoonecarescom@85.214.90.236...
> In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have
> ''found no trace of the Jesus -- not one shard of pottery.''
buttwipe. I took killfile off to see whats amusing you write and I find 
this. must say I agree with you. Jesus probably didn’t exist. the whole 
religion aspect seems to be as means of control of masses. I mean we have 
governments that are region bound and we have religion that has no borders. 
But if its true how do you explain all the cities mentioned in the bible 
that apparently exist or existed at some point. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:56 EST 2007
Article: 1233430 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us soc.culture.german:379766 alt.revisionism:1233430
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
References:  
Subject: Re: German Wikipedia censored, charges filed - Yahoo charged by French court
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="Windows-1252";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1197589301 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:41:41 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:41:41 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:40:44 -0500



"ZULU"  wrote in message news:fjsbm8$3i7$1@aioe.org...
> Doomdsay Cultist wrote:
>
>>  Lawmaker pulls Nazi symbol charges
>>
>> Fri Dec 7, 12:44 PM ET
>>
>> BERLIN (Reuters) - A left-wing German politician withdrew charges
>> against online encyclopedia Wikipedia on Friday for promoting the use
>> of banned Nazi symbols in Germany.
>>
>>
>> Katina Schubert, a deputy leader of the far-left Left party, had filed
>> the charges with Berlin police Thursday. He argued that Wikipedia's
>> German language site contained too much Nazi symbolism, particularly
>> an article on the Hitler Youth movement.
>>
>> Schubert said Friday she had spoken to Wikimedia Deutschland, which
>> promotes the Internet lexicon in Germany, and had decided not to
>> pursue the case even though she still believed neo-Nazis could take
>> advantage of such sites.
>>
>> "Filing charges is obviously the wrong path to go down in this dispute
>> so I am today withdrawing them after intensive discussions with
>> Wikimedia," Schubert said in a statement on the Left party's web site.
>>
>> She noted most of the symbols linked to the Hitler Youth had been
>> removed from the website.
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland had rejected the accusations and said the
>> symbols were clearly used for educational and documentational
>> purposes.
>>
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071207/od_nm/wikipedia1_dc_1;_ylt=AkfWGokDEGLspXO.2VCpKYcE1vAI
>
>
> Yahoo Nazi Memorabilia Ruling Overturned
>
> August 26th, 2004 by Loren Baker
>
> A US appeals court ruled this week that a lower tribunal had no right to 
> decide a case brought against US internet giant Yahoo by two French groups 
> trying to halt online sales of Nazi memorabilia. Documents showed on 
> Wednesday that the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled 
> Monday that a US district court was premature in making a 2000 decision in 
> the case that went in Yahoo’s favor.
>
> The French associations, La Ligue Contre le Racisme et l’Antisemetisme 
> (The League against Racism and Anti-Semitism — LICRA) and L’Union des 
> Etudiants Juifs de France (Jewish Students Union of France — UEJF) want to 
> stop Yahoo in the United States from allowing the sale of Nazi 
> memorabilia.
>
> The associations claim that French internet users can access such sales, 
> which break a French law banning the circulation of Nazi symbols and which 
> were removed by a French court order from Yahoo’s French site. The Ninth 
> Circuit appeals panel ruled 2-1 that the lower court should have held back 
> from ruling as the two groups had yet to file their cases in a US court in 
> their bid to collect a fine imposed by a French court.
>
> “Yahoo must wait for LICRA and UEJF to come to the United States to 
> enforce the French judgement before it is able to raise its First 
> Amendment claim. However it was not wrongful of the French organisations 
> to place Yahoo in this position,” wrote Judge Warren Ferguson.
>
> A French court in May 2000 ordered Yahoo to destroy all Nazi-related 
> messages, images and text on its California server within three months, 
> under penalty of a fine of 100,000 francs per day. Then Yahoo filed a 
> complaint in the US district court in San Francisco in December 2000 
> asking the judge to declare the French court’s ruling unenforceable in the 
> United States as they breached the US Constitution’s First Amendment 
> guaranteeing freedom of expression.
>
> The court granted Yahoo’s request for a summary judgement in the case, 
> ruling that enforcement of the French court orders would violate Yahoo’s 
> First Amendment rights.
>
> http://www.searchenginejournal.com/wp-trackback.php?p=0818
>
> 2006 01 14
>
> French court wins anti-hate case against Yahoo
>
> SAN FRANCISCO, Jan 12, 2006 (AFP) - A US appeals court on Thursday threw 
> out a bid by Internet giant Yahoo to win immunity from paying fines 
> imposed by a French court over the firm's online sales of Nazi 
> memorabilia.
>
> But, ruling on a long-running case that pitted the US constitutional right 
> to freedom of expression against French anti-hate laws, the Ninth Circuit 
> Court of Appeals in San Francisco said it was very unlikely that the media 
> giant would ever have to stump up what could amount to millions of dollars 
> in fines.
>
> French court wins anti-hate case against Yahoo
>
> SAN FRANCISCO, Jan 12, 2006 (AFP) - A US appeals court on Thursday threw 
> out a bid by Internet giant Yahoo to win immunity from paying fines 
> imposed by a French court over the firm's online sales of Nazi 
> memorabilia.
>
> But, ruling on a long-running case that pitted the US constitutional right 
> to freedom of expression against French anti-hate laws, the Ninth Circuit 
> Court of Appeals in San Francisco said it was very unlikely that the media 
> giant would ever have to stump up what could amount to millions of dollars 
> in fines.
>
> Yahoo had sought in its suit filed five years ago to bar two Paris-based 
> rights groups from seeking to enforce two earlier French court orders 
> imposing fines on the Internet firm in the United States over sales of 
> Nazi items, which have since been halted.
>
> The groups, the League against Racism and Anti-Semitism and Jewish 
> Students Union of France, wanted to stop Yahoo from allowing the sale of 
> Nazi memorabilia, at least to French Internet users, which breaks a French 
> law banning the circulation of Nazi symbols.
>
> In 2000 a French court ordered Yahoo to remove the Nazi items from 
> availability to French users, and also ordered Yahoo to pay 100,000 francs 
> (US $18,500) a day in fines for each day that the items were available.
>
> In its US suit Yahoo contested the French court rulings, claiming that 
> they were a violation of its right to free speech under the US 
> constitution's first amendment.
>
> But in a six to five vote, the judges decided to toss out Yahoo's 
> complaint, while overturning a decision by a lower California court that 
> declared the French court decisions unenforceable.
>
> Three judges voted to dismiss the case because it is not "ripe" to be 
> considered by an American court, while the three other judges dismissed it 
> on the grounds that US courts did not have jurisdiction over the Jewish 
> groups.
>
> The judges noted that Yahoo's free-speech argument was "vague" and that 
> the firm had in any case "in large measure" voluntarily complied with the 
> French order to halt the offending auctions, making any violation of its 
> First Amendment rights moot.
>
> "Even if the measures Yahoo has already taken restrict access by American 
> Internet users to anti-Semitic materials, this has no bearing on Yahoo's 
> first amendment argument," the judges wrote.
>
> "By its own admission, Yahoo has taken these measures entirely of its own 
> volition," they wrote.
>
> But while rejecting the lower court's ruling that the French fines were 
> unenforceable in the United States, the judges said that the French court 
> orders of 2000 were very unlikely to ever be applied.
>
> "Enforcement of that penalty is extremely unlikely in the United States," 
> the judges wrote. "Enforcement is unlikely not because of the First 
> Amendment, but rather because of the general principle of comity under 
> which American courts do not enforce monetary fines or penalties awarded 
> by foreign courts."
>
> Yahoo representatives could not immediately be reached for comment on the 
> court's decision.
>
> http://www.stopracism.ca/pages/search.php?article_id=211


This is ridiculous. I remember when eBay prohibited sale of Nazi items. It 
is another thing to still manufacture such crap, probably some dumbass 
pressing Nazi buttons in the basement or garage or pressing swastika pins. 
But for example coins from that era and medals or military buttons from that 
era and I mean manufactured during 3rd Reich is a different story as such 
items are part of the history and shouldn’t be banned. Some of the rarest 
Nazi memorabilia reaches thousands of dollars. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:57 EST 2007
Article: 1233467 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597431 soc.culture.german:379771 soc.culture.jewish:1801167 soc.culture.israel:1662551 alt.revisionism:1233467
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism
References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> <13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com>  
Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000
Lines: 2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="windows-1250";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com 1197603181 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST
Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:32:05 -0500



"ElParedon"  wrote in message 
news:Kxl8j.37737$L%6.32149@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
> news:NXi8j.1702$_r2.171@pd7urf1no...
>>
>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>> news:13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com...
>>> In article <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> Doomsday Cultist  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Majdanek Death Statistics
>>>>When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet
>>>>Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been
>>>>murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg 
>>>>International
>>>>Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in
>>>>November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million.
>>>
>>> Who cares? The Soviets were notoriously unable to come up with realistic 
>>> figures.
>>
>> So can't you Kenneth.
>
> Out of the 78,000, probabnly only about 20% were Jews
>

And they were managing the place 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:57 EST 2007
Article: 1233746 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233746 soc.culture.usa:2066704 soc.culture.canada:594972 soc.history.what-if:737754
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!news.glorb.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if
References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com>
Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard!
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: <71O8j.53591$eY.30068@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.net 1197714627 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:30:27 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:30:27 EST
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: FKPGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHPIMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:30:27 GMT



"B'enjamin C'ramer"  wrote in message 
news:1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> Let's get the British bastard!
>
> How emails from a badly leaking laptop scuppered the violent plans of the 
> traditional enemies of Free Speech in Colorado
>
>
>
> DENVER Jewess Sara Salzman (below) was the brain behind plans for the 
> disruption of Mr Irving's December 22, 2003 visit to the city.
>
> In doing so, she risked federal prosecution for conspiring to violate the 
> civil rights of his audience. As a Holocaust professional and webmaster 
> (she has claimed that her Holocaust website gets Six Million "hits" each 
> month) she expected to get away with it.
>
> Her gang laid plans in several directions. All failed. One of the earlier, 
> less violent projects was to infiltrate into the audience her husband, 
> whom she described as a big -- i.e., obese -- man, and have him purchase 
> an Irving book; he would then produce the cancelled check to claim that 
> the British historian was "violating his visa status."
>
> Her computer records show that she sent over fifty emails to Denver Jewish 
> groups asking for support.
>
> Most responded cautiously, asking what Abe Foxman's Anti-Defamation League 
> was doing about the visit.
>
> The answer was, nothing. The ADL had burnt its fingers badly when it 
> authorized illegal wiretaps on a Colorado couple and publicly smeared them 
> as anti-Semites.
>
> A Denver court ordered the ADL to pay $9.75 million in libel damages; the 
> organisation's appeal was dismissed in April 2003. Even for an 
> organization as wealthy as the ADL (annual budget, $50 million) that kind 
> of award hurts.
>
> They were not keen to fetch Salzman's chestnuts out of the fire, if she 
> deliberately provoked trouble in Denver.
>
>
>
> Sara's chief accomplice was a former New York City cop and jailer, Rich 
> Miller.
>
> She emailed him frequent updates on the plan, with headings like: "T-minus 
> 13 days to Irving." The ex-cop would reply to her, "All is going well at 
> my end."
>
> To journalist Dani Newsum, left, who had written a particularly nasty OpEd 
> piece in the Denver Post headed "NAZI SWILL, COMING SOON," Sara also fed 
> this information:
>
> We've got a minimum of ninety people who will be demonstrating in front of 
> the (as-yet-undisclosed) location. If anyone has any media contacts, 
> especially with the local TV stations or Fox, please let me know. I will 
> be working this week on contacting various media folks. I'd especially 
> like to reach Peter Boyles at KHOW and Enid Goldstein at KNRC (radio), and 
> anyone at the TV stations."
> As the organised efforts to undermine Mr Irving's lecture tour -- on the 
> comparisons between World War II and the war in Iraq -- began to bite, 
> from Las Vegas onwards, Salzman gloated:
>
> Good news from the front lines: Irving was supposed to speak in Seattle on 
> Monday night. He announced the location, the Pyramid Brewery, and one of 
> the members of Holocaust Project wrote a letter to the location.
> Showing where she expected most of her support to come from, Salzman left 
> stacks of pamphlets at Denver's Jewish gift shops.
>
> On December 15, with five days to go, her leaky laptop received this 
> message from her ex-cop friend, announcing that he and his squad would be 
> ready for action on Saturday. They were evidently expecting violence:
>
> Things are warm and heating up quickly. We are prepared and ready for the 
> event on Saturday. Our group of four will be equipped with cameras, signs, 
> FirstAid supplies, water, and snacks.
>
>
> WORRIED about what she called "a mole in her ranks," that day the 
> Holocaust-obsessed Sara had another mole -- "Michael Wilde" -- send this 
> message to Mr Irving:
>
> I saw the article in Westword magazine and I'm real interested in hearing 
> your talk. We read about the Holocaust in school, but I can't believe all 
> the stuff we were told. Will you be saying anything about it?
> Wilde's application failed to make the genuine guest list for Denver, 
> because it failed certain criteria. Sara's keyboard handiwork confirmed 
> this decision.
>
> ("In cases like these," Mr Irving proposed to the Denver organizer, "we 
> find the address of a gay bar and send the suspects to wait there all 
> evening.")
>
> Mr Irving sent "Wilde" a standard reply, but added that he was not talking 
> about the Holocaust, and had never written about it.
>
> No matter. Irving had to be silenced. Sara hammered out this message on 
> her keyboard to her conspirators: "We're in the loop." (She added a surly 
> comment: "Interesting that Mr. Irving can afford a tollfree cell phone 
> number in US.")
>
> Meanwhile she sent a wad of leaflets to the Denver TV and radio stations, 
> her fingers busily typing out more lying smears on her porous keyboard:
>
> David Irving, an anti-American [sic], anti-Semitic, Holocaust denier, will 
> be speaking here, and there will be a group protesting his visit. 
> Information about this protest has been reported in Dani Newsum's Blog 
> 'Nazi Swill is coming to town'.
> Unfortunately, Mr. Irving (to reduce the possibility of press coverage 
> [sic]) will not announce the location of his talk until a day or two 
> before.
>
> Risking a final libellous smear, Salzman added:
>
> David Irving's followers are the same kinds of people as those who killed 
> Alan Berg. It's vital that we let him know he is not welcome in Denver. 
> Sara Salzman 303-617-9412.
> Meanwhile she had learned from "Michael Wilde" that he had asked Mr Irving 
> by email: "Do you have a place yet for your talk?" To their delight, the 
> author had answered ("currently on the road in Wyoming") -- less than 
> frankly, as it would turn out -- "Yes, north Denver, and you will be 
> informed later today."
>
> That confirmed what they already "knew," because he had a inserted a fake 
> line to that effect at the end of the Moscow Daily News report posted on 
> his website, namely that he would be speaking somewhere near the new 
> Denver International Airport.
>
>
>
> IT WAS now D-Day minus 1 -- Friday, December 19, 2003. Sara Salzman typed 
> this report at 11:16 a.m.:
>
> Irving has posted an article on his web site. . . The last sentence says: 
> 'Irving speaks at a hotel near Denver airport on Saturday.'
> If anyone wants to start calling hotels near the airport and ask if 
> someone with the initials "A.H." has booked a conference room for a meal 
> and lecture, please feel free! Sara."
>
> She received confirmation from a fellow plotter that the most recent 
> update was "somewhere near the airport."
>
> She congratulated him: "We're getting closer. My husband is going to call 
> Irving's cell phone after 3:00 p.m. today."
>
> Mr Irving's phone registered an incoming "no caller ID" call at 3:10 
> p.m. --  but the call did not reach him in Wyoming. She and her plotters 
> had to rely on their wits, and on her leaky laptop.
>
> Late on that Friday evening, Mr Irving sealed the Denver plotters' fate 
> with this message to their mole "Michael Wilde":
>
> Here is tomorrow Saturday's location by email: please keep it under your 
> hat. Tell no-one. We have booked a room at the Denver International 
> Airport Marriott (the actual address, if you're coming by taxi, is 16455 
> East 40th Circle).
> The Marriott Corp have never let us down yet (as you know we have just 
> held our fourth international Real History weekend at their Cincinnati 
> airport location) so they don't bow to pressure.
>
> We have asked the hotel to deny any afternoon function taking place. The 
> booking is under a less than obvious name, as you will see when you 
> arrive.
>
> I suggest you come between twelve and one, when I shall arrive; we'll have 
> a meal and then I will talk. Looking forward to seeing y'all there.
>
>
>
> At 1:35 a.m. Sara sat at her lap-top and hammered out a new message to her 
> gang. She quoted Irving's message to "Wilde," then finalized their plans:
>
>
> So here's what I suggest: We all meet in the parking lot of the Marriott. 
> Since Irving isn't going to be there until one, we don't want to clue him 
> in too early. So let's meet around 11:15-11:30.
> Our person taking pictures will have to be in the lobby of the hotel, 
> since lots of other people will be coming and going. One of us will go in 
> and scope it out, figure out which "room" Irving has rented (my guess is 
> under a name with the initials A.H.), and then our photographer can stake 
> out a place to take pictures that isn't too obvious . . . otherwise the 
> hotel will toss us.
>
> Referring to the ex-cop Rich Miller, she suggested: "Rich, I'm sure, can 
> fill us in on what's 'legal' to do. . . . Let's get the British bastard!! 
> Sara."
>
> She then switched off her laptop, and turned in for the night, while 
> dreams of sweet violence danced in her head.
>
> At ten on Saturday morning, the big day, she issued final "legal advice" 
> to her gang, provided by "our legal advisor at the Holocaust Project," on 
> what to do if they fell foul of the law and whether to comply with the 
> Marriott's order that they leave:
>
> My own answer to a security guard is 'Call the police and have them tell 
> me that' and answer that you are 'Exercising your constitutional rights.'
> This puts on record what happened and what is involved.
>
> Second, it puts it in an area where the wimps at the Anti-Defamation 
> League and the nutballs at the American Civil Liberties Union can, if 
> either decides to get off their fat asses, intervene in a meaningful way.
>
> The next day, she and her ("big") husband got "off their asses." When they 
> downloaded her emails on Saturday morning, ex-cop Rich Miller had already 
> sent in his own take on the forthcoming confrontation:
>
> Let us give this racist, Nazi, Hitler lover, and Jew-hater a big Colorado 
> unwelcome.
> The weather will be perfect, the location is ideal, and our cause is 
> moral. See you all at The Marriott Hotel at approximately 11:30 AM today. 
> The Marriott Hotel is located off Interstate 70, Exit 285, Airport Blvd. 
> North.
>
> If you need better directions, please call the Marriott at 303-371-4333. 
> Please do not mention David Irving. We do not want to give him a heads up 
> as to what we have planned.-Rich.
>

how is that such info is leaked. I doubt it was hacked. Sara had to either 
install a backdoor or she leaked it herself so she could raise a cry.  We 
all heard of  a Jewish man who painted swastika on his door himself, just so 
later he could raise a cry. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:58 EST 2007
Article: 1233747 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233747
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <2de07d7f-3097-4234-9e65-2f803de48958@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Question for Cramer
Lines: 1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: <44O8j.53592$eY.37062@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.net 1197714816 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:33:36 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:33:36 EST
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:33:36 GMT



"B'enjamin C'ramer"  wrote in message 
news:fqydnQjNBJoHuv7anZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>  wrote in message 
> news:2de07d7f-3097-4234-9e65-2f803de48958@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Did you ever see the movie "American History X". If not check it out.
>> I'd be curious what you think of it. I anticipate you will dub it a
>> Jew made movie. Give it the benefit of the doubt.
>>
>> Michael Ragland
>
> No. I've not seen it Michael. I will attempt to obtain a copy and do so.
>
> Aren't all movies yid made?
>

Well, if it is not made by Jews then it has to be distributed by Jews. There 
are Jews somewhere along the process. 



From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:58 EST 2007
Article: 1233762 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233762
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail
From: "Snow" 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Israel is pushing its zionist expansion too far. America takes notice.
Lines: 3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01C83EE4.7BD436F0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196
X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net
X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197718505 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:35:05 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:35:05 EST
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
X-UserInfo1: Q[RGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:35:05 GMT

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C83EE4.7BD436F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

WASHINGTON - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday rebuked =
Israeli officials for plans to expand a settlement in East Jerusalem, a =
step announced on the eve of a new round of Israeli-Palestinian =
negotiations.
The Israeli action "undermines confidence" needed to revive dormant =
peace talks, she said at an hour-long session with USA TODAY reporters =
and editors. She issued an "admonition" that both sides had an =
"obligation to be very careful about activities that undermine =
confidence."


INTERVIEW: Transcript of Rice roundtable
Earlier in the day, she called Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and =
Defense Minister Ehud Barak to register U.S. objections to Israel's plan =
to build 307 housing units in Har Homa. Most of the city's Arabs live in =
East Jerusalem. Israel says its commitments in the 2003 "road map" peace =
plan don't apply to the settlement.=20

Rice said that "to her knowledge," Palestinian protests had not upset =
plans for today's opening session between Israelis and Palestinian =
leaders, arranged last month at a Middle East forum hosted by President =
Bush in Annapolis.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Israel | Israeli | Palestinian | Rice | Secretary =
of State | Jerusalem | East | Arabs | Condolezza Rice | Defense Minister =
| US Secretary of State=20
The White House is in the midst of preparations for Bush's first trip as =
president to Israel next month. Rice called it an opportunity for him to =
push "in a hands-on way" for a Mideast breakthrough in the final year of =
his tenure. The trip also aims to maintain Arab support for the talks.

Rice was unflappable in a session that touched on topics from Iraq to =
Russia.=20

"Democratic processes have taken a step backward" in Russia, the =
secretary of State said, as President Vladimir Putin settled the =
question of his successor with his endorsement Monday of Dmitry =
Medvedev.=20

Rice also said the U.S. intelligence report released last week on Iran, =
which concluded that the nation had stopped its nuclear-weapons program =
in 2003, had complicated efforts to push for tougher sanctions against =
the regime. U.S. officials held a conference call on the issue Tuesday =
with France, Britain, Germany, Russia and China.

The report "had people step back and take a look" at the case for =
sanctions, she said.



http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-11-Rice_N.htm

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C83EE4.7BD436F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






WASHINGTON =97 Secretary of State Condoleezza = Rice on=20 Tuesday rebuked Israeli officials for plans to expand a settlement in = East=20 Jerusalem, a step announced on the eve of a new round of = Israeli-Palestinian=20 negotiations.

The Israeli action "undermines confidence" needed = to revive=20 dormant peace talks, she said at an hour-long session with USA TODAY = reporters=20 and editors. She issued an "admonition" that both sides had an = "obligation to be=20 very careful about activities that undermine confidence."

INTERVIEW: Tran= script of=20 Rice roundtable

Earlier in the day, she called Israeli Foreign = Minister=20 Tzipi Livni and Defense Minister Ehud Barak to register U.S. objections = to=20 Israel's plan to build 307 housing units in Har Homa. Most of the city's = Arabs=20 live in East Jerusalem. Israel says its commitments in the 2003 "road = map" peace=20 plan don't apply to the settlement.

Rice said that "to her knowledge," Palestinian = protests had=20 not upset plans for today's opening session between Israelis and = Palestinian=20 leaders, arranged last month at a Middle East forum hosted by President = Bush in=20 Annapolis.

FIND MORE STORIES = IN: Israel=20 | Israeli=20 | Palestinian=20 | Rice=20 | Secretary=20 of State | Jerusalem=20 | East=20 | Arabs=20 | Condolezza=20 Rice | Defense=20 Minister | US=20 Secretary of State

The White House is in the midst of preparations = for Bush's=20 first trip as president to Israel next month. Rice called it an = opportunity for=20 him to push "in a hands-on way" for a Mideast breakthrough in the final = year of=20 his tenure. The trip also aims to maintain Arab support for the = talks.

Rice was unflappable in a session that touched on = topics=20 >from Iraq to Russia.

"Democratic processes have taken a step backward" = in=20 Russia, the secretary of State said, as President Vladimir Putin settled = the=20 question of his successor with his endorsement Monday of Dmitry = Medvedev.

Rice also said the U.S. intelligence report = released last=20 week on Iran, which concluded that the nation had stopped its = nuclear-weapons=20 program in 2003, had complicated efforts to push for tougher sanctions = against=20 the regime. U.S. officials held a conference call on the issue Tuesday = with=20 France, Britain, Germany, Russia and China.

The report "had people step back and take a look" = at the=20 case for sanctions, she said.

 

http://= www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-11-Rice_N.htm

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C83EE4.7BD436F0-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:59 EST 2007 Article: 1233773 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1801448 alt.religion.christianity:384746 alt.bible:1278235 alt.revisionism:1233773 soc.culture.europe:597527 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197718882 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:41:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:41:22 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFEQR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:41:22 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... > Why were they "Christian" thugs? > > Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. > > Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? Yes it does. Personally never heard of Christian thugs. Did they have big crosses on their foreheads. But Christianity is being attacked lately left and right. First the news cant shut up about priests abuse then Zionists banned prayer and crosses in public places. the word GOD is also being banned. Zionists even went as far as trying to remove it from the money 'in GOD we trust, and from constitution. Family values are also being attacked. Republicans, many are Zionists are loosing Christian voting base. Its Sodoma and Gomora here in USA. modern Babylon. PS. its all strange, will reply to this post within hours such a looser he is, he is predictable. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:22:59 EST 2007 Article: 1233775 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233775 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The forgotten holocaust Lines: 4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0076_01C83EE7.4CDE1750" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197719715 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:55:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:55:15 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZUEK@YUDUWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:55:15 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C83EE7.4CDE1750 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The forgotten holocaust By Ania Woroniecka Following the Soviet invasion of Poland in September 1939, large numbers = of Poles in Soviet-occupied territories were arrested or murdered.In = 1940 the Soviets ordered four mass deportations from eastern Poland, the = first of which took place on February 10th when entire families were = transported in sub-zero temperatures. All told, 110 trains transported = over 200,000 people to the Archangielsk region, with approximately 20% = of the deportees not surviving the journey. In the next deportation on = April 13th, 160 trains transported 320,000 mostly women and children to = the Kazakhstan region, and two further deportations then transported = around 500,000 people to other parts of the Soviet Union. In each case = transportation took between three to six weeks, and many died due to = lack of food and water. The sealed carriages used had no natural light = and very little air, with sanitation amounting to a hole in the floor. Men were put into separate wagons from their families, often never to be = reunited. They were then sent to correctional labour camps, the = so-called "Gulags" (Glavnoye upravleniye lagierej), which were estimated = to have held at least 15 million prisoners of many races and = nationalities in 1941. All were expected to complete a predetermined = quota of at least 12 hours hard labour each day, and their daily rations = - effectively a small amount of bread and some soup of fish entrails - = were dependent on this quota being fulfilled. Medication was primitive = and annual death rates due to starvation, epidemics of diseases such as = pneumonia, typhus and typhoid, and accidents averaged 20%, though = sometimes up to 50% in Siberia due to the severe climate. In total, between 1.5 million and 2 million Poles were imprisoned and = deported by the Soviets during WW ll. Around 60-70% did not survive the = ordeal, with many dying in the first year of exile. Of those deported, = some 380,000 were children under 14, with many who lost their parents = dying themselves from starvation or lack of care. On August 12th 1941, following a Polish-Soviet agreement signed 13 days = earlier, a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the = U.S.S.R. granted an amnesty to all "Polish Citizens on Soviet territory = deprived of their freedom as prisoners of war or other adequate = grounds". Although 350,000 Poles were freed in the following two months, = many never made it out of the camps, were re-arrested or died trying to = leave due to starvation or the severe climate. The decision to free the Poles was prompted by Germany's invasion of = Russia in June 1941. Two years later the Nazis discovered the mass = graves of thousands of Poles killed on Stalin's orders in the forests of = Katyn, Starobelsk, Ostashkovo and other camps. They used this as = propaganda, and for many years the Soviets in turned blamed the Nazis = for the killings. Indeed, it wasn't until 1990 that the Soviet Union = finally admitted that they had been carried out on the orders of the = NKVD. Its successor, the KGB, put the number of Poles murdered at = 21,857. Many Poles in the UK have parents, grandparents and other relatives or = friends who were affected in some way by these events. Many also have = long lost relatives they will never meet and whole families they have = never known as a result of Stalin's policies. History was permanently = remoulded by the Soviets: churches were burnt down, and with them parish = records going back centuries destroyed. These policies have made it = impossible to trace relatives or to find out whether they survived. There are also the survival stories of those who managed to make it out. = Many who went through the atrocities never wanted to speak of their = experiences, locking away their torments and trying to rebuild their = lives.Some, such as Aleksander Topolski in his book Without Vodka and = Slawomir Rawicz in The Long Walk, have catalogued their daring escapes = and the hardships and humiliations they endured as a result of what was = often one whimsical decision by a petty official.Perhaps writing down = their experiences gave them a sense of catharsis.Those who managed to = make it were marked with a steely determination to survive.However, many = never got over the experience, seemingly leading normal lives but with a = few outside signs of their trauma such as a refusal to ever throw away = food, a lack of inner peace and an instinctive inability to trust = others.=20 Surely it is now time for an acknowledgement of this forgotten holocaust = in the Western media.It is important that the suffering of so many is = not forgotten. Why did it happen? In Toposki's book a character states = that you cannot understand any of it without vodka.Perhaps he is right. *historical data on deportations and camp conditions taken from "Stalin = and the Poles" by Dr. Bronislaw Kusnierz(Hollis & Carter) first = published 1949. Source estimated figures based on 2,000 persons per = train. http://topaz.org.uk/ ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C83EE7.4CDE1750 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The forgotten holocaust

 

By=20 Ania Woroniecka

 

Following the Soviet invasion of Poland in September 1939, large = numbers of=20 Poles in Soviet-occupied territories were arrested or murdered.In 1940 = the=20 Soviets ordered four mass deportations from eastern Poland, the first of = which=20 took place on February 10th when entire families were = transported in=20 sub-zero temperatures. All told, 110 trains transported over 200,000 = people to=20 the Archangielsk region, with approximately 20% of the deportees not = surviving=20 the journey. In the next deportation on April 13th, 160 = trains=20 transported 320,000 mostly women and children to the Kazakhstan region, = and two=20 further deportations then transported around 500,000 people to other = parts of=20 the Soviet Union. In each case transportation took between three to six = weeks,=20 and many died due to lack of food and water. The sealed carriages used = had no=20 natural light and very little air, with sanitation amounting to a hole = in the=20 floor.

Men were put into separate wagons from their families, often never to = be=20 reunited. They were then sent to correctional labour camps, the = so-called=20 "Gulags" (Glavnoye upravleniye lagierej), which were estimated to have = held at=20 least 15 million prisoners of many races and nationalities in 1941. All = were=20 expected to complete a predetermined quota of at least 12 hours hard = labour each=20 day, and their daily rations - effectively a small amount of bread and = some soup=20 of fish entrails - were dependent on this quota being fulfilled. = Medication was=20 primitive and annual death rates due to starvation, epidemics of = diseases such=20 as pneumonia, typhus and typhoid, and accidents averaged 20%, though = sometimes=20 up to 50% in Siberia due to the severe climate.

In total, between 1.5 million and 2 million Poles were imprisoned and = deported by the Soviets during WW ll. Around 60-70% did not survive the = ordeal,=20 with many dying in the first year of exile. Of those deported, some = 380,000 were=20 children under 14, with many who lost their parents dying themselves = from=20 starvation or lack of care.

On August 12th 1941, following a Polish-Soviet agreement = signed 13=20 days earlier, a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the = U.S.S.R.=20 granted an amnesty to all "Polish Citizens on Soviet territory deprived = of their=20 freedom as prisoners of war or other adequate grounds". Although 350,000 = Poles=20 were freed in the following two months, many never made it out of the = camps,=20 were re-arrested or died trying to leave due to starvation or the severe = climate.

The decision to free the Poles was prompted by Germany's invasion of = Russia=20 in June 1941. Two years later the Nazis discovered the mass graves of = thousands=20 of Poles killed on Stalin's orders in the forests of Katyn, Starobelsk,=20 Ostashkovo and other camps. They used this as propaganda, and for many = years the=20 Soviets in turned blamed the Nazis for the killings. Indeed, it wasn't = until=20 1990 that the Soviet Union finally admitted that they had been carried = out on=20 the orders of the NKVD. Its successor, the KGB, put the number of Poles = murdered=20 at 21,857.

Many Poles in the UK have parents, grandparents and other relatives = or=20 friends who were affected in some way by these events. Many also have = long lost=20 relatives they will never meet and whole families they have never known = as a=20 result of Stalin's policies. History was permanently remoulded by the = Soviets:=20 churches were burnt down, and with them parish records going back = centuries=20 destroyed. These policies have made it impossible to trace relatives or = to find=20 out whether they survived.

There are also the survival stories of those who managed to make it = out. Many=20 who went through the atrocities never wanted to speak of their = experiences,=20 locking away their torments and trying to rebuild their lives.Some, such = as=20 Aleksander Topolski in his book Without Vodka and Slawomir Rawicz = in=20 The Long Walk, have catalogued their daring escapes and the = hardships and=20 humiliations they endured as a result of what was often one whimsical = decision=20 by a petty official.Perhaps writing down their experiences gave them a = sense of=20 catharsis.Those who managed to make it were marked with a steely = determination=20 to survive.However, many never got over the experience, seemingly = leading normal=20 lives but with a few outside signs of their trauma such as a refusal to = ever=20 throw away food, a lack of inner peace and an instinctive inability to = trust=20 others.

Surely it is now time for an acknowledgement of this forgotten = holocaust in=20 the Western media.It is important that the suffering of so many is not=20 forgotten. Why did it happen? In Toposki's book a character states that = you=20 cannot understand any of it without vodka.Perhaps he is right.

*historical data on deportations and camp conditions taken from = "Stalin and=20 the Poles" by Dr. Bronislaw Kusnierz(Hollis & Carter) first = published 1949.=20 Source estimated figures based on 2,000 persons per train.

 

http://topaz.org.uk/

------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C83EE7.4CDE1750-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:00 EST 2007 Article: 1233781 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233781 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns11feed!worldnet.att.net!207.115.32.202!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Jews and ideology movements, espesially comunism Lines: 3742 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009B_01C83EE8.D96C3020" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <8rP8j.24516$4V6.21399@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197720388 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:06:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:06:28 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[RGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:06:28 GMT X-Original-Lines: 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009B_01C83EE8.D96C3020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable STANISLAW KRAJEWSKI Jews, Communism, and the Jewish Communists Ten Theses 1. Marxism, radical leftist ideologies, and 'real socialism' constitute = not only a fragment of world history, and of Polish or Hungarian history, but also a chapter of = Jewish history. 2. Anti-Semites have grossly exaggerated the Jewish involvement in = communism, distorted the facts, and interpreted them according to conspiracy theories. Jews = were also victims of communism. 3. Jewish communists rarely cared about Jewish concerns and often = virtually stopped being Jewish. 4. Some of those who had abandoned Jewishness later came back. The = number of Jewish communists, and their role, was so important that other Jews must not = ignore it. 5. The deepest problem is posed by the quasi-religious character of the = communist involvement of some Jews. 6. There is no distinctive Jewish radicalism. There is no 'Jewish = communism'. Jews became communists because of general mechanisms. 7. It was not Judaism or Jewish traditions but the social situation that = led Jews to involvement in communism. 8. Participation in evil can begin with noble and selfless intentions. 9. Moral responsibility can be indirect. Reemerging Jewish communities = in Eastern Europe should face the legacy of Jewish participation in communism. However, = accepting a Jewish share of moral responsibility does not make non-Jews less responsible. 10. Objective research is needed to clarify the extent and nature of = Jewish participation in communism. The tragic consequences of the anti-Semitic myth of 'Jewish = communism' should impose no taboo. Introductory Remarks The phrase 'Jews and communism' immediately brings to mind two sets of = associations. The first image, common in the West, is that of the persecution of Jews = in communist countries: the destruction of religious traditions; the doctors' plot = and, more generally, Stalin's anti-Semitism, which almost led to the large-scale murder of = Jews; the fate of refusniks and the discrimination against Jews in the Soviet Union; = official anti-Semitism in Poland in 1967-68. The second set of associations, popular in East = Central Europe and beyond, is expressed as the image of 'Jewish communism': Jews as the = founders of leftist movements and as communist leaders in the states that were governed by = communist parties; persecuting Christian religions; preeminent in the bloody communist = dictatorships. Now, the first image is true but it does not represent the total picture = of the relationship of Jews with communism. The second image is false but it = does point to certain facts, specifically to the large number of Jews among active communists. = As Andre W. M. Gerrits puts it: the power of the association of Jews with communism = comes from the fact that "it was based on elements of fiction and reality".1 The myth of 'Jewish = communism' is only a myth. What is real is the existence and importance of Jewish communists. = The distinction made by Gerrits had been made earlier by Jaff Schatz in the most = important book-length study of the topic,2 and also by me.3 This reality has been subjected to = surprisingly little research. The neglected topic-which I propose to consider now-is then not so much = 'Jews and communism', not 'Jews under communism', and certainly not 'Jewish = communism', but rather 'Jewish communists'. In addition to seeing this topic as a = subject for scholarly research I propose its less objective variant: 'Jewish communists as a Jewish = concern'. My remarks can serve only as a loose introduction to the problem that in my opinion = deserves study by scholars and reflection by Jews, even by those who have never met a = communist.4 It should also be mentioned that my interest is not devoid of personal = motivation. In the 1970s, I read a remarkable book of conversations between two great = writers, Czeslaw Milosz and Aleksander Wat, Pamietnik m=F3wiony [Spoken diary]. Wat = recalled that a certain communist leader functioned as a 'tsadik' to his followers. That leader, = Adolf Warski, was one of the founders of the Polish Communist Party, was later a member of = the Polish parliament, was murdered in Russia during the Stalinist terror, and = happened to be my greatgrandfather. Comments on the Ten Theses 1. Marxism, radical leftist ideologies, and 'real socialism' constitute = not only a fragment of world history, and of Polish or Hungarian history, but also a chapter in = Jewish history. Communism constitutes a relatively important part of recent Polish or = Hungarian history, as well as of Russian or, say, Chinese history; clearly, it will always = remain a chapter of European history, and indeed in the history of our civilization. I = propose to also consider communism as a chapter of Jewish history. By communism I mean, first, Marxism and a broader field of left-wing = radicalism, and second, 'real socialism', the countries governed by communist parties. = It is this second element, their participation in the communist rule, and the resulting = responsibility for its activities, that makes the issue of the role of Jewish communists in the = framework of Jewish history highly emotional. If the phenomenon of Jewish communists is seen = as part of a comprehensive Jewish history, it follows that in our century, in Eastern = Europe, Jews were not 1 A. W. M. Gerrits, 'Anti-Semitism and Anti-Communism. The Myth of = "Jewish Communism" in Eastern Europe', Dialogue and Universalism 11-12 (1995), pp. 27-51, p. 32. 2 J. Schatz, The Generation. The Rise and Fall of the Jewish Communists = of Poland (University of California Press, 1991). 3 In an article 'Zydzi a komunizm' [Jews and Communism] published in the = underground periodical Krytyka 15 (1983), pp. 178-206, under my then pen-name of Abel Kainer. It was = published in English in From the Polish Underground, Selection from Krytyka 1978-1993, ed. M. Bernhard and H. = Szlajfer (Pennsylvania State University Press, 1996), pp. 353-94. 4 Of course, the topic has been approached by a number of scholars, such = as Jacob Talmon and Erich Fromm, and by writers such as Isaac Bashevis Singer and Israel Singer, as well = as by Polish contemporary writers Julian Stryjkowski and Henryk Grynberg. This is, however, not enough. The = theses and many of the comments presented below were published, sometimes in an expanded form, in my = book Zydzi, judaizm, Polska [Jews, Judaism, Poland] (Warsaw, 1997). Additional considerations are contained = in 'Zydzi a komunizm', Krytyka. only among the oppressed, but also among the oppressors! Because we Jews = were the victims of the most horrible persecutions, the very idea that some of us were = among the victimizers sounds dramatic and is hard to accept. Yet it is clearly a fact. Of course, this thesis about Jews being also among the oppressors can be = accepted only if we admit that communists did oppress and persecute. I guess that = very few people deny this. It is, however, true that the early communists, the = revolutionaries from the period of illegal activities, were motivated by a desire to bring and end to = social injustice. They wanted to create a just society and eventually produced a system of organized = terror. Let me mention just some examples showing that communism, and, more = generally, left-wing radicalism, was relatively widespread among Jews, especially = in Eastern Europe. I refer to facts not myths. Most Jews who left the closed traditional = communities tended to support political radicalism. If they did not choose Zionism, they = supported the revolutionary left. Sometimes both. Secular Yiddish culture was predominantly leftist. = What is even more relevant, Jews were important in communist movements. They were = prominent among revolutionary leaders, both before and after the seizure of power by the = communists. Occasionally, other leaders praised Jews for this, as was the case with = Engels and Lenin, for example. Reproaching Jews for this has been common among conservatives. To give = less wellknown examples: in the 1920s, some Swedish experts on Russia had no doubt = about the role of Jews. Alfred Jensen (neither pro-Jewish, nor anti-Semitic, I have = been told) wrote in 1921 that "approximately 75 per cent of the leading Bolsheviks are of Jewish = origin".5 The Russian Tsar Nicholas II had said that "nine-tenths of the troublemakers are = Jews".6 I have no idea how close to or far from the truth this is. Anti-Semitic usage of such = statements has made it very difficult to know whether they refer to facts. Of course, there is a great difference between those who became = revolutionaries in order to fight injustice and those who supported communist oppression, = another form of injustice. Usually, however, idealist radicals became functionaries of = the system when the opportunity arose, or supporters of the new regime if they lived = elsewhere. For instance, Jewish activists in Eastern Europe and in Israeli kibbutzim were eagerly = pro-Soviet in the period of terror in the later years of Stalin's life. In Poland, right after the Second World War, most Jewish organizations = were procommunist; they saw communists as a force that could bring security and = stabilization. To be a Jew was sometimes an advantage for those ready to make careers in the = emerging communist system. (Though it could also be a burden. I know examples of = returning Jews who were offered career opportunities, and examples of those who were = denied them-in both cases Jewishness seemed essential.) I wish to avoid a = misunderstanding: I am not saying that Jewishness was ever sufficient for a career; not Jews, but loyal = persons were needed, preferably those with no family ties. Jews were often perfect candidates = since they were isolated, with no families, not connected to the prewar power elite, = dreaming about normal lives and about protection by the state authorities. Some Jews in postwar Poland tried to punish those guilty of the murder = of their families. This is mentioned in some literary renderings by Jewish = survivors, as for example in a remarkable book, recently published, by a Polish-Jewish survivor = Wilhelm Dichter.7 His mother asked a Soviet Jewish officer in Lvov to send to Siberia a Polish = neighbor who had reported to Germans and thereby sent her family members to death. The = most dramatic example is provided by the recently revealed story of Solomon Morel, = sadistic head of a 5 K. Gerner, 'Degrees of Anti-Semitism: the Swedish Example', in Jews = and Christians, Who is Your Neighbour after the Holocaust?, ed. M. Bron Jr. (Acta Sueco-Polonica, No. 2) = (Uppsala, 1997). 6 Quoted after J. Schatz, The Riddle of Jewish Radicalism (manuscript), = p. l . 7 W. Dichter, Kon Pana Boga [God's horse] (Cracow: Znak, 1996). concentration camp for Germans in Poland, immediately after the Second = World War.8 I am aware that anti-Semites have abused those facts, distorted them, = and built on their basis a mythical picture of Jewish conspiracy. 2. Anti-Semites have grossly exaggerated the Jewish involvement in = communism, distorted the facts, and interpreted them according to conspiracy theories. Jews were = also victims of communism. The view that the phenomenon of Jewish communists must be seen as part = of the comprehensive history of Jews is not accepted by average Jews and by = many authors. They point to the fact that the existence of Jewish communists was a pretext = for anti-Semites, who used it in their conspiracy theories. It is true that the myth of = 'Jewish communism' (zydokomuna or 'jewcommies') has been one of the most sinister ideas = that ever shaped European politics; it was used to justify aggressive and violent = anti-Semitism, and eventually led to mass murder by Nazi Germany. And it is still used, in Poland and = elsewhere, by demagogue politicians. It is imperative, then, to remember all the facts that contradict the = image of 'Jewish communism'. Let me mention just a few. Of course, most Jews were never = communist or procommunist, and most communists were never Jewish. Various minorities were = overrepresented among communists. This was, by the way, a paradox because communists believed that they represented the working masses, the national = majority. Most Jews did not support communism. Even in postwar Poland when the choice for Jews was = limited (this is also true of Hungary) the majority of Jews were not pro-communist and = most of them left Poland. Jews were also victims of communism. Some facts, like the doctors' plot, = are well known. But the anti-Jewish practice of communism was much more = fundamental. Despite the opportunities for individual careers, all Jews who wanted to continue = specifically Jewish activities-be they religious, political, or Zionist-were seen as enemies = by communists, including the Jewish communists. Traditional Jewish communal life was = destroyed by the victorious communists. Moreover, communism created its own version of = the myth of 'Jewish (anti-)communism': the world Trotskyite/Zionist conspiracy. As a matter = of fact, the picture of 'rootless cosmopolitans' was used by communists and anti-communists = alike. The persecutions of Jews took place not only when large campaigns = against 'Zionists' were mounted, but also when the Jewish communists were most influential, = as for example in the late 1940s in Poland, when many Jews were sent to prison for = 'speculation', that is, doing business. And those who really tried to be active as Zionists could = become 'prisoners of Zion' in each communist country. Anti-Semitism has always existed on the left. Some revolutionaries, not = excluding the young Marx, were ready to treat capitalism as an essentially Jewish = phenomenon. In fact, the specter of 'Jewish communism' haunted the communist parties from the = very beginning. The over-representation of Jews caused "an embarrassment and a political = liability" to communist parties. This is a largely neglected story.9 To give a specific example: = in 1948, a short time before his (temporary) removal from the chairmanship of the Communist = Party, Wladyslaw Gomulka wrote a letter to Stalin in which he stated that he saw "the = necessity not only of stopping the increase in the percentage of the Jewish element in the = state and party apparatus, 8 The story was described by J. Sack in An Eye for an Eye (New York: = Basic Books, 1993). 9 A. W. M. Gerrits, 'Anti-Semitism and Anti-Communism', pp. 42-43. but also of gradually reducing this percentage."10 Sooner or later, there were anti-Semitic purges in most communist = parties in the hope of achieving their "national purification". That revealed a deeper = phenomenon. As Adam Michnik rightly observed, in Poland the anti-Semitic and = anti-intellectual campaign of 1968 was the culmination of an attempt to legitimize the regime by = appropriating Polish fascist traditions, together with that nation's virulent anti-Semitism. 3. Jewish communists rarely cared about Jewish concerns and often = virtually stopped being Jewish. The view that the phenomenon of Jewish communists must be seen as part = of the comprehensive history of Jews is not accepted by average Jews for = another important reason. Jewish communists were so unrepresentative, so far removed from the = mainstream of Jewish life that, say many Jews, their activities do not deserve to be included = in Jewish history. Communists of Jewish descent were alienated and tried to be "plus = catholiques que le pape". They were generally "not especially interested in the Jewish = issue".11 For other, noncommunist Jews the government was never free of anti-Semitism, even in the = presence of Jews in power. One emigrant, Bernard Goldstein, complained that Jews = who, like Minc, Berman, Zambrowski, or Borejsza, occupied top positions in the communist = ruling elite, did not bother to help the Jewish community. "They were hired servants of = the dictatorship", he wrote.12 Among the most significant features of Jewish communists was = their desire to leave the Jewish world, often to stop being Jewish, so that at least their = children would have no Jewish sentiments, and no Jewish problems. I, as well as many of my = friends, know this from our own experience. What is even more important, communist practice was invariably directed = against Jewish traditions and communal life, and it may rightly be called = anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitic expression was forbidden but Jewish life was restricted as much as other = traditions and eventually even more. It is undeniable that Jewish communists acted not = as Jews but as communists; they did exactly the same things that all other communists = in similar positions did, and specifically Jewish concerns could not influence their = decisions. Even traditional Jews could understand that point. Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik wrote = that Jewish Bolsheviks "wanted to convince Stalin that they were first and foremost communists = rather than Jews".13 The only exception were the communists active among Jews. They stressed = their Jewishness but fought against Jewish traditions. The rare Jewish = communists who in postwar Poland wanted to be active as Jews referred to "the progressive Jewish = nation under the auspices of Comrade Stalin".14 They expressed Stalinist ideas in = Yiddish. But even they wanted in the long run to finish with Jewish distinctiveness. They = seemed to assume that in the future ideal world there would be nothing specifically Jewish. One = proof of this is that they raised dejudaized children. Another was that in postwar Poland they = were "unhappy about the government's policy of allowing Jewish emigration in 1949-50", = and tried "to sabotage it by delaying and otherwise obstructing the issue of documents = required for exit 10 The letter was discovered in Russia, and presented to the public by = A. Paczkowski (Gazeta Wyborcza, 18-19 December, 1993, p. 17.). 11 A. W. M. Gerrits, 'Anti-Semitism and Anti-Communism', p. 46. 12 Quoted after one of the most important contributions to the study of = our topic, K. Kersten's Polacy, zydzi, komunizm, Anatomia p=F3lprawd 1939-1968 [Poles, Jews, Communism: An = Anatomy of Half-Truths] (Warsaw: Niezalezna Oficyna Wydawnicza, 1992), p. 81. 13 Midstream, January 1997, p. 40. 14 K. Kersten, Polacy, zydzi, komunizm, p. 78. applications".15 Communism was, among other things, a form of assimilation. To some, this = "red assimilation", to use the phrase of Ozjasz Thon, "that repulsive red = assimilation-spiritual desolation among the youth"16 seemed the most promising way. It was = often efficient-up to a point. When they became rejected or just disenchanted they often = 'regressed' to Jewishness. 4. Some of those who had abandoned Jewishness later came back. The = number of Jewish communists, and their role, was so important that other Jews must not = ignore it. For anti-Semites, the number and visibility of Jewish communists means = that communism was Jewish and that Jews were in power. This is nonsense. In = fact, it is easy to show that the presence of Jews was politically unessential, be it in = Poland, Hungary, or in other countries. I think it is evident that even if there had been no = Jews in these countries after the war, the political developments in the post-Yalta world would have = been the same. If so, is the presence of Jews among communists a noteworthy occurrence? And why = should we care now? From the perspective of the contemporary Westerner the story of = Jewish communists seems rather exotic, an unimportant dead end of Jewish history. I disagree with this point of view. It is true that most of them were = strongly un-Jewish, that is, they tried hard to abandon their Jewishness. Some authors = maintain that no relationship existed between their origins and their communism.17 After = all, they clearly did not act as Jews. However, many of them came back to the Jewish world = when the communist world rejected them. Also, they had Jewish family members. One striking = example is Jakub Berman, number-two in Stalinist Poland, who was very far from paying = heed to Jewish concerns; at the same time, his brother, Adolf, was a left-wing Zionist = who emigrated to Israel. Also, many Marxist Jews had a strong Jewish identity and were = 'Jewishly' active. Bundists and left-wing Zionists believed in socialism and in revolution = in a similar fashion to communists. Above all, the size of the phenomenon should not be underestimated. = Isaac Bashevis Singer recalled how in the 1920s, in Warsaw, in the coffee shops = attended by Jewish writers and journalists "everyone" was looking forward to revolutionary changes, = and he alone was "living in the past". We are not talking about a handful of individuals. = It was a social phenomenon: radical leftist alternatives were dominant in some Jewish = circles. Also, it is a fact that Jews holding high official positions in postwar = Poland-as well as in Hungary, Rumania, Czechoslovakia and Lithuania-were, relatively = speaking, very numerous. Not as numerous, though, as the anti-Semitic stereotype to the = effect that 'they were all Jews' has it. In 1945, the bulletin of the London-based Polish = Telegraphic Agency stated that "all official positions in ministries and state offices were = filled by Jews".18 Krystyna Kersten reports a private note by Bierut, the leader of = Stalinist Poland, who recorded that while there were 438 Jews among 25,600 employees of the state = security forces (1.7 per cent), 67 (13.4 per cent) of the top 500 security officers were = Jewish.19 According to internal statistics compiled by the Polish Ministry of Interior (made available = by Andrzej Paczkowski) in the period 1944-1956 almost 30 per cent of top officers were = Jewish.20 In 1953, Ostap 15 J. Schatz, The Generation, p. 252. 16 In the introduction to the monumental volume Zydzi w Polsce = Odrodzonej [Jews in Reborn Poland] (Warsaw, 1928). 17 This point has been argued by, among others, my father (Warski's = grandson): 'Fakty i mity. O roli zyd=F3w w okresie stalinowskim', in Wiez (1997), pp. 109-22. English translation: = 'Facts and Myths: On the Role of the Jews during the Stalinist Period', in Wiez Special Issue: Under One = Heaven (Warsaw, 1998), pp. 93-110. 18 K. Kersten, Polacy, zydzi, komunizm, p. 79. 19 K. Kersten, Polacy, zydzi, komunizm, pp. 83-84. 20 Aparat bezpieczenstwa', in Instytucje Panstwa Totalitarnego, research = report of the Institute of Political Dluski wrote that in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs there were "8 = directors of departments of which 5 were Jews, [while] for the 12 available posts of deputy = directors only 4 were nominated, among whom 3 were Jews, and of 28 division managers 18 were = Jews."21 In Poland, zydzi w UB, that is "Jews in the security forces" has become = a standard image. This is an expression of anti-Semitic attitudes. There is no = reason to believe that these posts were occupied by Jews because they were Jewish. But even if we = reject the stereotype and the generalization, it is wrong to ignore the above-mentioned = figures as irrelevant. Communism was-and continues to be-perceived as 'the rule of Jews', even = by persons who were far from being anti-Semites. In 1996, the posthumous diaries of = two important personalities-the prominent writer, Maria Dabrowska and another = well-known writer and journalist, Stefan Kisielewski-were published in Poland. Anti-communist = Kisielewski wrote that "Jews have always loved communism", but also that "Poland without = Jews is the saddest possible Poland".22 Both writers mentioned "the ruling Jews" as an = evident fact of Stalinist Poland. This impression was probably partly derived from the fact that during = the Second World War Jews were seen as victims, only victims, and nothing but = victims. However, suddenly they were important, the "resurrected Judas".23 The image of = Jews participating in power and in state administration incomparably more than had been the = case in prewar Poland, was so strange to Poles that it was considered as conspicuous.24 = Despite all these reservations, the fact remains that communist Jews were numerous and = influential. I believe that this fact should be incorporated into their thinking about Jewish = history by scholars and by 'average' Jews alike. And to me the sheer number of communist Jews is = not the only and not even the most important aspect of the problem. 5. The deepest problem is posed by the quasi-religious character of the = communist involvement of some Jews. I can certainly understand Jews being pro-communist in certain periods. = In the polarized Poland of 1946 they unfortunately had little choice in the selection of = allies. Communists could be seen as the only force that could efficiently defend Jews = against anti-Semitism. This resulted in a vicious circle: the more Jews were afraid, the more they = relied on the communist authorities-and at the beginning of the postwar period on the Red Army = itself25-and the more they relied on them, the more they were threatened and the more = afraid they became. It was hard to step out of the circle. What then is the problem (what I see = as a Jewish problem)? The character of the alliance of Jews with communist rulers was not = determined. The cooperation of Jewish leaders with victorious communists was rather = natural.26 What they could have avoided was the quasi-religious zeal with which so many of = them assumed communist positions. For some this had begun much earlier. The = revolution was perceived by some Jews in quasi-messianic terms. The fanaticism of the early = revolutionaries was not weaker than in the most extreme religious sects. The party became their = family, Stalin their Messiah. To understand the phenomenon of communism, we must perceive it = also as a quasireligious movement. Jewish leftist intellectuals produced commentaries on Marx, = treating his work much as 'holy' scripture. According to testimonies gathered by = Schatz, in prewar Studies (PAN, 1994), p. 61. 21 Quoted after a manuscript by D. Stola, The Anti-Zionist Campaign in = Poland 1967-1968, endnote 10, p. 79. 22 S. Kisielewski, Dzienniki 1968-1980 (Warsaw: Iskry, 1996). 23 A. Smolar, 'Tabu i niewinnosc' [Taboo and Innocence], Aneks 41/42 = (1986), pp. 89-133, p. 110. 24 This aspect has been stressed by J. T. Gross in Upiorna dekada [The = Horrible Decade] (Cracow: Universitas, 1998). 25 This was described by H. Grynberg in the novel Zwyciestwo [Victory]. 26 See the chapter about the cooperation of Jews with state security in = J. T. Gross's Upiorna dekada. prisons they formed communist 'yeshivahs', adapting Talmudic dialectic = pilpul methods to the study of their literature.27 After the Second World War the prewar = communists entered the state of 'holy madness'. Even those who survived in Russia were not = shaken in their faith. Messianic anticipation was transformed into enthusiasm. Politics was = perceived "in truly mystical terms . . . They saw themselves as active in . . . the = beginning of a new era."28 Ex-communists often presented their experience using the metaphor of the = "God who failed". Sergey Bulgakov described revolutionaries as adherents of a = "religion founded on atheism".29 Nikolai Berdyaev was among the first to show that = secularized Messianism was the key to understanding modern revolutionaries. Modern-and obviously = not only Jewish. It must be stressed that fanaticism was characteristic of all 'believing = communists' (as distinct from the pragmatic, career-oriented communists in the period of = communist rule), and not just of Jewish communists. Jewish communists expressed their = quasi-religious zeal in a Jewish style. The Messianic-like intensity, and the uncritical belief = that communists would end both anti-Semitism and discrimination of all kinds, made them ready = to use any means to make possible the building of the new communist order. That is why even = well-meaning and humane people could participate in the system of terror. I see a deep = problem here, and a matter of concern for Jews, because it shows the dead-end of the Jewish = religious fervor and Messianic yearnings when directed to false gods. One can ask, however: how important is the Jewishness of those leftists = and communists? If this is just a matter of style, is it perhaps irrelevant? 6. There is no distinctive Jewish radicalism. There is no 'Jewish = communism'. Jews became communists because of general mechanisms. Is the Jewishness of Jewish communists relevant? My answer is that it = may be irrelevant, but we have no right to assume that this is indeed the case. It needs to = be proven. Otherwise, we would be doing just what anti-Semites do when they assume that = communism has a Jewish nature, only in reverse. What must be recognized is the existence of a = genuine problem here. Have some elements of Jewish tradition or the Jewish condition = influenced the ideology and practice of communism? A full answer can be given only as a = result of the pursuit of a comprehensive research program. Anti-Semites in Europe have often said that Jews created communism and = that communism is Jewish. Already in 1879 a report written by the Prussian = police contained the conclusion that "Jewry is by nature a revolutionary movement".30 Also, = Kisielewski, who was never an anti-Semite, wrote that Jews "created communism". He added that = they "should be punished for this", but the ruling communists "punished them for alleged = treason against communism". Is there a sense in which communism can be reasonably seen = as a Jewish creation? Clearly, Jews as a group did not create communism, even if = Jews were prominent among its founders. Also, organized Jewish communities were not lovers = of communism, even if some individual Jews were. A comparison will be instructive. Christianity is really a Jewish = creation, or rather it was at the beginning. All its founders were Jewish. It started as a = Jewish sect. Communism in none of its forms has ever been a Jewish sect. In addition, Christianity = depends on its Jewish-or Hebrew-roots, and must always ponder their significance. = Nothing like this has ever been the case with socialism, with its many currents. If we look at = the sources of 27 J. Schatz, The Generation, p. 138. 28 J. Schatz, The Generation, p. 249. 29 Quoted after I. Shafarevich, Le ph=E9nomene socialiste (Paris, 1977), = p. 267. 30 J. Schatz, The Riddle of Jewish Radicalism, p. 1. communism we see a highly complex picture. We can discern its = forerunners as far back as the states of ancient Egypt or China, and in the political philosophy of = Plato. The other sources were listed by Erich Fromm: "Marxist and other forms of = socialism are the heirs of prophetic Messianism, Christian Chiliastic sectarianism, = thirteenth-century Thomism, Renaissance Utopianism, and eighteenth-century Enlightenment."31 It = makes no sense to call communism a Jewish creation even in the sense in which Christianity is = Jewish. Nevertheless, it is possible to ask whether there are features of = communism that make it 'Jewish' in some sense. How deep were the similarities between = Judaism and communism, and, more generally, between Judaism and ideologies based on Marxism? = Some authors stress the importance of Jewish cultural heritage, especially Messianism, = prophetic traditions, the stress on social justice, the imperative to set the world right. Melvin = Lasky believes that a line can be drawn "from the anger of the Biblical prophets to the modern = tumults associated with 1917".32 As already mentioned, in order to understand the phenomenon of communism = we must look at it as a quasi-religious movement. Abraham Kaplan noticed = that the communist party became "in effect, a priesthood".33 One can be even more specific. = According to Kaplan, the communist myth of human history begins with the Eden of what they = call primitive communism; man is then cursed with class differences and the class struggle, moves = through the trials of a feudal and bourgeois period, enters the purgatory of socialism, and is redeemed at = last in the heaven of communism. Production takes the place of Providence, ownership is sin, = revolution is redemption.34 What is apparent in this elegant parallel is not so much similarity with = Judaism, but rather structural affinity to Christianity! The result of the analysis is = completely different from the intentions of those who maintain that the nature of communism is Jewish. = There is no objective reason to stress its Jewish elements rather than its Christian = ones. This reminds me of an elderly Jew from the Warsaw synagogue who says he is a communist = in the sense that Jesus was a communist! Those who practice the Jewish religious tradition rarely become radicals = or revolutionaries. The Jewish ideal of tsedek is inconsistent with the = revolutionary ethos. The cultural heritage is not sufficient by itself to explain the choices of = Jewish communists: while some elements of tradition support leftist and radical approaches, = others favor conservatism. The tradition is more than comprehensive enough. The problem remains why = one element is selected and not another. According to some, there exists a Jewish tendency to extremism or = radical solutions. Perhaps so. This is, however, not sufficiently specific. Similar = characteristics are attributed, for instance, to the Russians (Berdyaev: "Communism suits the Russian = soul.") and to the French (Proudhon: Jacobinism is "a kind of moral pestilence particular = to the French temperament.").35 My opinion is that, although there are similarities between the Judaic = tradition and communist thinking, they are not very deep. The connection between Jews = and leftist ideas and practice is not of an absolute character but limited to specific = times and places. The communist fanaticism of Jews often contained Jewish ingredients but = there is no specifically Jewish radicalism. I completely agree with Jaff Schatz' solution to the = "riddle of radical 31 Fromm, Marx's Concept of Man, cited in M. Lasky, Utopia and = Revolution (London, 1977), p. 66. 32 M. Lasky, Utopia and Revolution, p. 67. 33 A. Kaplan, The New World of Philosophy (New York: Vintage, 1961), p. = 188. 34 A. Kaplan, The New World of Philosophy, p. 173. 35 M. Lasky, Utopia and Revolution, p. 78. Jews": there is no "Jewish radicalism", there are only radical Jews.36 = Individuals become radical as a result of a process governed by general mechanisms and = functioning in their specific situations. For Jews it was a Jewish situation and Jewish = heritage played a role. Communism is not a Jewish product. Or rather, it is certainly no more = Jewish in origin than many other ideas of Western civilization, including Christianity. = At the same time, it is true that Jews were prominent among European and American (but not = Asian) communists. The correct question is not "Why did they create communism?" or "Why is = communism Jewish?", but rather "Why was communism so attractive to Jews?" 7. It was not Judaism or Jewish traditions but the social situation that = led Jews to communist involvement. There is no distinctive Jewish radicalism. There existed, however, = processes leading Jews to leftist radicalism. They had little to do with Jewish traditions, but = very much to do with the situation of the Jews. The Biblical tradition of social justice only = sometimes led to revolutionary involvement. It all depended on the social situation of = the Jews involved. The mechanisms responsible for communist involvement were universal. For = example, feelings of hopelessness always lead to radical attitudes. In the case = of Jews, the lack of hope for satisfactory careers in a society permeated by anti-Semitism = resulted in a belief in the necessity of a revolutionary change in the social order. Hopelessness = was widespread in prewar Europe and led to political radicalism. For Jews, only left-wing = radicalism was available, as right-wing radicals were deeply anti-Semitic. Only Zionism = provided for Jews a way of being both radical and right-wing. In Poland before the Second World War there were very few career = prospects for bright Jewish young people. They were not accepted. The 'reds' were an = exception. This led to a paradox: while communism was to some Jews, and other minorities, a = way of assimilating, they remained mostly among people similar to themselves, = thereby perpetuating their minority status. By hopelessness I do not mean poverty. Poor people never supported = communists only because they were poor. Many remained conservative. On the other hand, = it is extremely significant that some children from well-to-do families became Marxists = or even professional revolutionaries. They did not have to escape poverty, rather they = believed in a mission to help others escape poverty. Jews figured prominently among these idealists. Another general mechanism was the attraction of radical views for = marginalized intellectuals. They were important in cultural life, and in radical = politics. According to Isaac Deutcher, the revolutionary "non-Jewish Jews" transcended the = particularistic and strove for the universal. Before the two world wars, the alienation of the = assimilated Jewish intelligentsia was often painful. They were neither part of the = traditional Jewish community nor accepted by Gentile society. Marginality led to self-hatred, an = internalization of anti- Semitism. The double marginality, ethnic and religious, produced = revolutionaries who sought "to have the non-Jews become like them, alienated from traditional = religious and national values. Only then would these revolutionaries cease to feel = alienated."37 There is a simple proof that it was the situation rather than tradition = that led Jews to communism. In contemporary Israel, although not in the first decades of = the state, the Communist Party has been predominantly Arab. Again, this was caused by = their social situation and not by any fundamentally Islamic or Arab characteristics = of communism. 36 In the book and article already mentioned. 37 D. Prager and J. Telushkin, Why the Jews? The Reasons for = Anti-Semitism (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1983), p. 60. While the mechanisms that caused Jews to participate in communism were = general, the whole phenomenon does constitute part of modern Jewish history. Every = radical, revolutionary, or fanatic has his or her own reasons for this attitude. = They are partly personal and partly reflect one's condition or status resulting from belonging to = one group or another. For Jews, those reasons reflected the Jewish condition. In this sense = they were Jewish. These Jews had Jewish reasons, even if shallowly Jewish, and brought a Jewish = color to the leftist revolutionary movements. 8. Participation in evil could begin with noble and selfless intentions. One could still ask: why should we remember the Jewishness of the = communists, especially of those who did not want to be part of the Jewish people, of = Jewish history? My answer is that what Jews did is usually considered as part of Jewish = history, even if they did not act as Jews. Lists of outstanding Jewish sportsmen are compiled for = Jewish encyclopedias: why not make one of the top Jewish communists? Jewish = communists did not represent Jewish interests (and Jewish Olympic medal winners did not = represent Jews), but they were perceived as Jews by others, Jews and non-Jews alike. Even if the above is accepted, one could still say that these facts = belong to history and there is no reason to remember them. I disagree. My answer is that, = first, the story poses a most important moral problem. This is my personal motive for thinking = about the subject. I am not a historian but I am a committed Jew and I have ancestors who = were communist leaders. Leftist radicalism contained an inherent evil. Jewish communists took = part in a system of terror. I do not say that they started out with sinister intentions. = The original intentions were often pure and sometimes very noble indeed. I, for one, have = ancestors who were communists, and I know that they did not want to do evil. In fact, this = is precisely the reason why the lesson offered by their story is significant. It can be = instructive to all. Their history can teach us something about the traps that not only Jews can encounter. = The danger is universal. We have seen many idealists-turned-terrorists or = fighters-against-oppressionturned- oppressors. Any case study can help us understand the mechanism of that = change. And the story of Jewish communists provides excellent material for study. If the communists had not seized power, we would have seen them mostly = as idealists or fanatics, but essentially not as harmful ones. The innocence of the = early revolutionaries is best illustrated by a story whose events took place in Kaluszyn, in the = Russian part of Poland, in 1905. Three young revolutionaries came to the rabbinical court of the = town. One shot into the cupboard and demanded "the money that the bourgeoisie entrusts when = they come to settle disputes". They were shown the little money entrusted by poor = orphans, brides, and widows as their inheritance or dowries. Wealthy people left promissory = notes which were of no use to the intruders. Then the youth said: "Listen, Rebe, we won't = take money from poor orphans and widows, although we're desperately in need of money." They = also said that they would send one of their men the next day to fix the hole made by the = revolver. Shortly afterwards, they left, shouting "Long live the revolution!" And then the = Rebe said to his colleagues: "You see? A Jewish soul cannot be fathomed. Even their path = includes pity toward widows and orphans, and on account of that God will forgive = them."38 This romantic view of revolutionaries is still shared by some of my = American and Western friends who remember the idealistic leftists who cared about = justice. As the communists took power and created a system of terror and oppression, = even those 38 S. Kalushin. Quoted after J. Kugelmass and J. Boyarin, From a Ruined = Garden (New York: Schocken, 1983), pp. 118-19. communists who were themselves not part of the power elite-like Western = communists or those who had died before the communist takeover-have been included in = the universe of evil done by communists in power. This is clearly a challenge to all communists, and not only Jewish ones. = To me, however, the drama of the Jewish revolutionaries is closer and more = relevant. I can sympathize with their dilemmas. I can understand the feeling that only a = radical reconstruction can mend the world that produced Hitler and the Shoah. At = the same time, I am horrified by the consequences of their choices and I feel ashamed. = Moreover, I believe that all Jews should understand the drama and share the feeling of uneasiness. 9. Moral responsibility can be indirect. Reemerging Jewish communities = in Eastern Europe should face the legacy of Jewish participation in communism. However, = accepting a Jewish share of moral responsibility does not make non-Jews less responsible. I am not responsible for the bad things done by Jewish communists, even = if some of them happened to be my ancestors. The same is true of an overwhelming = majority of Jews- American or Sephardic Jews certainly cannot be held responsible, and = most of them have had no personal connection with Jewish communists. Guilt can only be individual. I can be ashamed nevertheless. Even those = Jews who were actively opposed to communism can feel shame. From a Jewish = religious point of view, it is not irrelevant what other, even non-religious and anti-religious, = Jews do. The whole house of Israel, including its rebellious members, is the partner of the = Covenant. If one sees Jews according to a Talmudic principle, assuming all of us to be = "responsible for one another" (Kol Israel arevim ze ba-ze), then it is hard to deny that communist = ideology and even more communist practice have created a problem for all Jews. Moral = responsibility can be indirect. As in a family, if one family member does something wrong the others = feel bad. The stronger the identification, the stronger the feeling. Even from a completely = secular perspective the fact that so many Jews lost their minds in their belief in communism can be = disquieting. There also exists a logical argument. If one can feel pride because of = the accomplishment of a particular Jew, even a 'non-Jewish' Jew who did not = act as a Jew, then by the same token one can feel ashamed because of crimes committed by = Jews. Anyone who has ever taken pride in, for example, Freud's accomplishments, should be = ready to feel ashamed because of Kaganowicz in Russia or Berman in Poland. Either both = feelings or neither of them. Jewish communists have left a disturbing legacy that needs to be = confronted by the reemerging Jewish communities in East Central Europe. This is not to say that Jews = are guilty and non-Jews are not. That is the anti-Semitic opinion and I shall have = nothing to do with it. Accepting a Jewish share of moral responsibility does not make non-Jews = less responsible or less morally involved. The problem of communist crimes remains a = challenge for the left (obviously, I do not propose to ignore the crimes committed by the = right) and for many groups and nations. It sh ould be evident that I am not trying to free anyone from blame, = but my theses on Jews and communism have made some people think that I am talking = about Jewish moral responsibility in order to absolve Christians, Poles, and everyone else. = This is not the case. Communism was the trouble, not the Jews. Conclusion 10. Objective research is needed to clarify the extent and nature of = Jewish participation in communism. The tragic consequences of the anti-Semitic myth of 'Jewish = communism' should impose no taboo. I have argued that Jewish communists, taken together, formed a category = that belongs to the history of the Jewish people (Theses 1 through 4). Jaff Schatz = compares the place of Jewish communists within the general history of Jews with that of the = followers of Sabbatai Zvi.39 No more but no less! There is no simple formula that explains the problem of the relations = between Jews and communism, or answers the question "How Jewish were Jewish = communists?" Also, there is no simple answer to the problem of the affinity between = Jewishness and communism. One must apply a variety of explanations. First, one has to refer to the = cultural and religious background in order to explain the Jewish flavor of communist = activities. Second, one must take into account the social situation of Jews in order to understand = how the general psychological mechanism leading to radicalism functioned in the case of = Jews (Theses 5 through 7). Only anti-Semitic myths provide simple solutions. They usually express a = vision of a 'Jewish world conspiracy'. According to a notorious book on the 'Jewish = problem' which ran to dozens of editions in Nazi Germany, Marxism represents the nature of = Jews. The author explicitly referred to the tradition of theological, or rather = demonological, anti-Semitism. He wrote that "the Jew is the devil incarnate".40 This, incidentally, shows = that theology is as important in the analysis of anti-Semitism as it is in the analysis of = the processes leading to communism. Anti-Semitic nonsense should not stop research on the relationships = between Jews and communism. We should not deny the existence of any relationship, = although it is true that Jewish communists did the same as other communists. There are people who = denounce as racist any attempt to find out the number of Jews among communists and = in communist institutions. They even resent any mention that someone was Jewish (by = origin). I believe that they impose a virtual taboo because they have not come to terms either = with their own Jewish ancestry or with the collective Jewish moral responsibility for the = Jewish involvement in communism. If Jewishness is really irrelevant in that story why should = it be ignored? Lev Trotsky used to say: "I am not a Jew, I am an internationalist", but why = should we follow his approach? There was no Jewish communism, but there were Jewish communists. = Discussing them and their role does not have to lead to putting all the blame for = communist crimes on Jews. I have presented (Theses 8 and 9) the moral problem posed by the extent = and the nature of Jewish participation in the communist enterprise. That = activity was not done in the name of the Jews, but they were Jews, nevertheless. A disturbing legacy = has been left for all Jews, and in particular for the Jews of East Central Europe and their = reemerging Jewish communities. Discussion of this must not be left to anti-Semites. Sensitivity and good will is needed to understand the story of Jewish = communists. It is a closed chapter, so it can be fully described. And this can be = instructive to all. As the famous anonymous saying goes: "Jews are just like anybody else, only more so . = . ." 39 J. Schatz, The Generation, p. 2 40 Th. Fritsch, Handbuch der Judenfrage, p. 236; quoted after A. W. M. = Gerrits, 'Anti-Semitism and Anti- Communism', p. 35. ------=_NextPart_000_009B_01C83EE8.D96C3020 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

STANISŁAW KRAJEWSKI

Jews, Communism, and the Jewish = Communists

Ten Theses

1. Marxism, radical leftist ideologies, and =91real = socialism=92=20 constitute not only a fragment of

world history, and of Polish or Hungarian history, but = also a=20 chapter of Jewish history.

2. Anti-Semites have grossly exaggerated the Jewish = involvement in=20 communism, distorted

the facts, and interpreted them according to conspiracy = theories.=20 Jews were also victims of

communism.

3. Jewish communists rarely cared about Jewish concerns = and often=20 virtually stopped being

Jewish.

4. Some of those who had abandoned Jewishness later came = back. The=20 number of Jewish

communists, and their role, was so important that other = Jews must=20 not ignore it.

5. The deepest problem is posed by the quasi-religious = character=20 of the communist

involvement of some Jews.

6. There is no distinctive Jewish radicalism. There is = no =91Jewish=20 communism=92. Jews became

communists because of general mechanisms.

7. It was not Judaism or Jewish traditions but the = social=20 situation that led Jews to involvement

in communism.

8. Participation in evil can begin with noble and = selfless=20 intentions.

9. Moral responsibility can be indirect. Reemerging = Jewish=20 communities in Eastern Europe

should face the legacy of Jewish participation in = communism.=20 However, accepting a Jewish

share of moral responsibility does not make non-Jews = less=20 responsible.

10. Objective research is needed to clarify the extent = and nature=20 of Jewish participation in

communism. The tragic consequences of the anti-Semitic = myth of=20 =91Jewish communism=92

should impose no taboo.

Introductory Remarks

The phrase =91Jews and communism=92 immediately brings = to mind two=20 sets of associations.

The first image, common in the West, is that of the=20 persecution = of Jews in communist

countries: the destruction of religious traditions; the = doctors=92=20 plot and, more generally,

Stalin=92s anti-Semitism, which almost led to the = large-scale murder=20 of Jews; the fate of

refusniks and = the=20 discrimination against Jews in the Soviet Union; official anti-Semitism = in

Poland in 1967=9668. The second set of associations, = popular in East=20 Central Europe and

beyond, is expressed as the image of =91Jewish = communism=92: Jews as=20 the founders of leftist

movements and as communist leaders in the states that = were=20 governed by communist parties;

persecuting Christian religions; preeminent in the = bloody=20 communist dictatorships.

Now, the first image is true but it does not represent = the total=20 picture of the

relationship of Jews with communism. The second image is = false but=20 it does point to certain

facts, specifically to the large number of Jews among = active=20 communists. As Andre W. M.

Gerrits puts it: the power of the association of Jews = with=20 communism comes from the fact that

=93it was based on elements of fiction and reality=94.1=20 The myth of =91Jewish communism=92 = is only a

myth. What is real is the existence and importance of=20 Jewish = communists. The distinction

made by Gerrits had been made earlier by Jaff Schatz in = the most=20 important book-length study

of the topic,2=20 and also by me.3 This reality=20 has been subjected to surprisingly little research.

The neglected topic=97which I propose to consider = now=97is then not so=20 much =91Jews

and communism=92, not =91Jews under communism=92, and = certainly not=20 =91Jewish communism=92, but

rather =91Jewish communists=92. In addition to seeing = this topic as a=20 subject for scholarly research

I propose its less objective variant: =91Jewish = communists as a=20 Jewish concern=92. My remarks can

serve only as a loose introduction to the problem that = in my=20 opinion deserves study by

scholars and reflection by Jews, even by those who have = never met=20 a communist.4

It should also be mentioned that my interest is not = devoid of=20 personal motivation. In

the 1970s, I read a remarkable book of conversations = between two=20 great writers, Czesław

Miłosz and Aleksander Wat, Pamiętnik=20 m=F3wiony [Spoken diary]. Wat = recalled=20 that a certain

communist leader functioned as a =91tsadik=92 to=20 his followers. That leader, Adolf Warski, was

one of the founders of the Polish Communist Party, was = later a=20 member of the Polish

parliament, was murdered in Russia during the Stalinist = terror,=20 and happened to be my greatgrandfather.

Comments on the Ten Theses

1. Marxism, = radical=20 leftist ideologies, and =91real socialism=92 constitute not only a = fragment of

world history, and of Polish or Hungarian history, but = also a=20 chapter in Jewish history.

Communism constitutes a relatively important part of = recent Polish=20 or Hungarian history,

as well as of Russian or, say, Chinese history; clearly, = it will=20 always remain a chapter of

European history, and indeed in the history of our = civilization. I=20 propose to also consider

communism as a chapter of Jewish history.

By communism I mean, first, Marxism and a broader field = of=20 left-wing radicalism, and

second, =91real socialism=92, the countries governed by = communist=20 parties. It is this second

element, their participation in the communist rule, and = the=20 resulting responsibility for its

activities, that makes the issue of the role of Jewish = communists=20 in the framework of Jewish

history highly emotional. If the phenomenon of Jewish = communists=20 is seen as part of a

comprehensive Jewish history, it follows that in our = century, in=20 Eastern Europe, Jews were not

1 A. W. = M. Gerrits,=20 =91Anti-Semitism and Anti-Communism. The Myth of =93Jewish Communism=94 = in Eastern

Europe=92, Dialogue and Universalism 11=9612 (1995), pp. 27=9651, p. 32.

2 J. = Schatz,=20 The Generation. = The Rise=20 and Fall of the Jewish Communists of Poland (University of California

Press, 1991).

3 In an = article=20 =91Żydzi a komunizm=92 [Jews and Communism] published in the = underground=20 periodical Krytyka=20 15

(1983), pp. 178=96206, under my then pen-name of Abel = Kainer. It was=20 published in English in From the Polish

Underground, Selection from Krytyka 1978=961993, ed. M. Bernhard and H. Szlajfer (Pennsylvania State

University Press, 1996), pp. 353=9694.

4 Of = course, the topic=20 has been approached by a number of scholars, such as Jacob Talmon and = Erich=20 Fromm,

and by writers such as Isaac Bashevis Singer and Israel = Singer, as=20 well as by Polish contemporary writers Julian

Stryjkowski and Henryk Grynberg. This is, however, not = enough. The=20 theses and many of the comments

presented below were published, sometimes in an expanded = form, in=20 my book Żydzi, judaizm, Polska = [Jews,

Judaism, Poland] (Warsaw, 1997). Additional = considerations are=20 contained in =91Żydzi a komunizm=92, Krytyka.

only among the oppressed, but also among the = oppressors! Because we Jews were the victims

of the most horrible persecutions, the very idea that = some of us=20 were among the victimizers

sounds dramatic and is hard to accept. Yet it is clearly = a=20 fact.

Of course, this thesis about Jews being also among the = oppressors=20 can be accepted

only if we admit that communists did oppress and = persecute. I=20 guess that very few people

deny this. It is, however, true that the early = communists, the=20 revolutionaries from the period of

illegal activities, were motivated by a desire to bring = and end to=20 social injustice. They wanted

to create a just society and eventually produced a = system of=20 organized terror.

Let me mention just some examples showing that = communism, and,=20 more generally,

left-wing radicalism, was relatively widespread among = Jews,=20 especially in Eastern Europe. I

refer to facts not myths. Most Jews who left the closed=20 traditional communities tended to

support political radicalism. If they did not choose = Zionism, they=20 supported the revolutionary

left. Sometimes both. Secular Yiddish culture was = predominantly=20 leftist. What is even more

relevant, Jews were important in communist movements. = They were=20 prominent among

revolutionary leaders, both before and after the seizure = of power=20 by the communists.

Occasionally, other leaders praised Jews for this, as = was the case=20 with Engels and Lenin, for

example.

Reproaching Jews for this has been common among = conservatives. To=20 give less wellknown

examples: in the 1920s, some Swedish experts on Russia = had no=20 doubt about the role

of Jews. Alfred Jensen (neither pro-Jewish, nor = anti-Semitic, I=20 have been told) wrote in 1921

that =93approximately 75 per cent of the leading = Bolsheviks are of=20 Jewish origin=94.5 = The Russian

Tsar Nicholas II had said that =93nine-tenths of the = troublemakers=20 are Jews=94.6 = I have no idea

how close to or far from the truth this is. Anti-Semitic = usage of=20 such statements has made it

very difficult to know whether they refer to facts.

Of course, there is a great difference between those who = became=20 revolutionaries in

order to fight injustice and those who supported = communist=20 oppression, another form of

injustice. Usually, however, idealist radicals became=20 functionaries of the system when the

opportunity arose, or supporters of the new regime if = they lived=20 elsewhere. For instance,

Jewish activists in Eastern Europe and in Israeli = kibbutzim were=20 eagerly pro-Soviet in the

period of terror in the later years of Stalin=92s = life.

In Poland, right after the Second World War, most Jewish = organizations were procommunist;

they saw communists as a force that could bring security = and=20 stabilization. To be

a Jew was sometimes an advantage for those ready to make = careers=20 in the emerging

communist system. (Though it could also be a burden. I = know=20 examples of returning Jews

who were offered career opportunities, and examples of = those who=20 were denied them=97in

both cases Jewishness seemed essential.) I wish to avoid = a=20 misunderstanding: I am not saying

that Jewishness was ever sufficient for a career; not = Jews, but=20 loyal persons were needed,

preferably those with no family ties. Jews were often = perfect=20 candidates since they were

isolated, with no families, not connected to the prewar = power=20 elite, dreaming about normal

lives and about protection by the state authorities.

Some Jews in postwar Poland tried to punish those guilty = of the=20 murder of their

families. This is mentioned in some literary renderings = by Jewish=20 survivors, as for example in

a remarkable book, recently published, by a = Polish=96Jewish survivor=20 Wilhelm Dichter.7 = His

mother asked a Soviet Jewish officer in Lvov to send to = Siberia a=20 Polish neighbor who had

reported to Germans and thereby sent her family members = to death.=20 The most dramatic

example is provided by the recently revealed story of = Solomon=20 Morel, sadistic head of a

5 K. = Gerner, =91Degrees=20 of Anti-Semitism: the Swedish Example=92, in Jews and Christians, Who is = Your=20 Neighbour

after the Holocaust?, ed. M. Bron Jr. (Acta Sueco-Polonica, No. 2) (Uppsala,=20 1997).

6 Quoted = after J.=20 Schatz, The = Riddle of=20 Jewish Radicalism (manuscript),=20 p. l .

7 W. = Dichter,=20 Koń Pana Boga [God=92s horse] (Cracow: Znak,=20 1996).

concentration camp for Germans in Poland, immediately = after the=20 Second World War.8

I am aware that anti-Semites have abused those facts, = distorted=20 them, and built on their basis a

mythical picture of Jewish = conspiracy.

2. Anti-Semites have grossly exaggerated the Jewish = involvement in=20 communism, distorted the

facts, and interpreted them according to conspiracy = theories. Jews=20 were also victims of

communism.

The view that the phenomenon of Jewish communists must = be seen as=20 part of the

comprehensive history of Jews is not accepted by average = Jews and=20 by many authors. They

point to the fact that the existence of Jewish = communists was a=20 pretext for anti-Semites, who

used it in their conspiracy theories. It is true that = the myth of=20 =91Jewish communism=92

(żydokomuna or =91jewcommies=92) has been one of the most = sinister ideas=20 that ever shaped

European politics; it was used to justify aggressive and = violent=20 anti-Semitism, and eventually

led to mass murder by Nazi Germany. And it is still = used, in=20 Poland and elsewhere, by

demagogue politicians.

It is imperative, then, to remember all the facts that = contradict=20 the image of =91Jewish

communism=92. Let me mention just a few. Of course, most = Jews were=20 never communist or procommunist,

and most communists were never Jewish. Various = minorities were=20 overrepresented

among communists. This was, by the way, a paradox = because=20 communists

believed that they represented the working masses, the = national=20 majority. Most Jews did not

support communism. Even in postwar Poland when the = choice for Jews=20 was limited (this is

also true of Hungary) the majority of Jews were not = pro-communist=20 and most of them left

Poland.

Jews were also victims of communism. Some facts, like = the doctors=92=20 plot, are well

known. But the anti-Jewish practice of communism was = much more=20 fundamental. Despite the

opportunities for individual careers, all Jews who = wanted to=20 continue specifically Jewish

activities=97be they religious, political, or = Zionist=97were seen as=20 enemies by communists,

including the Jewish communists. Traditional Jewish = communal life=20 was destroyed by the

victorious communists. Moreover, communism created its = own version=20 of the myth of =91Jewish

(anti-)communism=92: the world Trotskyite/Zionist = conspiracy. As a=20 matter of fact, the picture

of =91rootless cosmopolitans=92 was used by communists = and=20 anti-communists alike.

The persecutions of Jews took place not only when large = campaigns=20 against =91Zionists=92

were mounted, but also when the Jewish communists were = most=20 influential, as for example in

the late 1940s in Poland, when many Jews were sent to = prison for=20 =91speculation=92, that is, doing

business. And those who really tried to be active as = Zionists=20 could become =91prisoners of Zion=92

in each communist country.

Anti-Semitism has always existed on the left. Some=20 revolutionaries, not excluding the

young Marx, were ready to treat capitalism as an = essentially=20 Jewish phenomenon. In fact, the

specter of =91Jewish communism=92 haunted the communist = parties from=20 the very beginning. The

over-representation of Jews caused =93an embarrassment = and a=20 political liability=94 to communist

parties. This is a largely neglected story.9 To give a=20 specific example: in 1948, a short time

before his (temporary) removal from the chairmanship of = the=20 Communist Party, Wladysław

Gomulka wrote a letter to Stalin in which he stated that = he saw=20 =93the necessity not only of

stopping the increase in the percentage of the Jewish = element in=20 the state and party apparatus,

8 The = story was=20 described by J. Sack in An=20 Eye for an Eye (New = York: Basic=20 Books, 1993).

9 A. W. = M. Gerrits,=20 =91Anti-Semitism and Anti-Communism=92, pp. 42=9643.

but also of gradually reducing this = percentage.=9410

Sooner or later, there were anti-Semitic purges in most = communist=20 parties in the hope

of achieving their =93national purification=94. That = revealed a deeper=20 phenomenon. As Adam

Michnik rightly observed, in Poland the anti-Semitic and = anti-intellectual campaign of 1968

was the culmination of an attempt to legitimize the = regime by=20 appropriating Polish fascist

traditions, together with that nation=92s virulent=20 anti-Semitism.

3. Jewish communists rarely cared about Jewish concerns = and often=20 virtually stopped being

Jewish.

The view that the phenomenon of Jewish communists must = be seen as=20 part of the

comprehensive history of Jews is not accepted by average = Jews for=20 another important reason.

Jewish communists were so unrepresentative, so far = removed from=20 the mainstream of Jewish

life that, say many Jews, their activities do not = deserve to be=20 included in Jewish history.

Communists of Jewish descent were alienated and tried to = be=20 =93plus catholiques que = le

pape=94. They = were generally=20 =93not especially interested in the Jewish issue=94.11 For other,=20 noncommunist

Jews the government was never free of anti-Semitism, = even in the=20 presence of

Jews in power. One emigrant, Bernard Goldstein, = complained that=20 Jews who, like Minc,

Berman, Zambrowski, or Borejsza, occupied top positions = in the=20 communist ruling elite, did

not bother to help the Jewish community. =93They were = hired servants=20 of the dictatorship=94, he

wrote.12 = Among the most significant features of Jewish = communists=20 was their desire to leave

the Jewish world, often to stop being Jewish, so that at = least=20 their children would have no

Jewish sentiments, and no Jewish problems. I, as well as = many of=20 my friends, know this from

our own experience.

What is even more important, communist practice was = invariably=20 directed against

Jewish traditions and communal life, and it may rightly = be called=20 anti-Semitic. Anti-Semitic

expression was forbidden but Jewish life was restricted = as much as=20 other traditions and

eventually even more. It is undeniable that Jewish = communists=20 acted not as Jews but as

communists; they did exactly the same things that all = other=20 communists in similar positions

did, and specifically Jewish concerns could not = influence their=20 decisions. Even traditional

Jews could understand that point. Rabbi Joseph B. = Soloveitchik=20 wrote that Jewish Bolsheviks

=93wanted to convince Stalin that they were first and = foremost=20 communists rather than Jews=94.13

The only exception were the communists active = among Jews. They stressed their

Jewishness but fought against Jewish traditions. The = rare Jewish=20 communists who in postwar

Poland wanted to be active as Jews=20 referred to =93the progressive Jewish nation under the

auspices of Comrade Stalin=94.14 They expressed = Stalinist ideas in=20 Yiddish. But even they

wanted in the long run to finish with Jewish = distinctiveness. They=20 seemed to assume that in

the future ideal world there would be nothing = specifically Jewish.=20 One proof of this is that

they raised dejudaized children. Another was that in = postwar=20 Poland they were =93unhappy

about the government=92s policy of allowing Jewish = emigration in=20 1949=9650=94, and tried =93to

sabotage it by delaying and otherwise obstructing the = issue of=20 documents required for exit

10 The = letter was=20 discovered in Russia, and presented to the public by A. Paczkowski=20 (Gazeta=20 Wyborcza, 18=9619

December, 1993, p. 17.).

11 A. W. = M. Gerrits,=20 =91Anti-Semitism and Anti-Communism=92, p. 46.

12 Quoted = after one of=20 the most important contributions to the study of our topic, K. = Kersten=92s=20 Polacy, = żydzi,

komunizm, Anatomia p=F3łprawd 1939=961968 [Poles, Jews, Communism: An Anatomy of Half-Truths] = (Warsaw:

Niezależna Oficyna Wydawnicza, 1992), p.=20 81.

13 Midstream, = January 1997,=20 p. 40.

14 K. = Kersten,=20 Polacy, = żydzi, komunizm, p.=20 78.

applications=94.15

Communism was, among other things, a form of = assimilation. To=20 some, this =93red

assimilation=94, to use the phrase of Ozjasz Thon, = =93that repulsive=20 red assimilation=97spiritual

desolation among the youth=9416 seemed the most = promising way. It=20 was often efficient=97up to

a point. When they became rejected or just disenchanted = they often=20 =91regressed=92 to Jewishness.

4. Some of those who had abandoned Jewishness later came = back. The=20 number of Jewish

communists, and their role, was so important that other = Jews must=20 not ignore it.

For anti-Semites, the number and visibility of Jewish = communists=20 means that

communism was Jewish and that Jews were in power. This = is=20 nonsense. In fact, it is easy to

show that the presence of Jews was politically = unessential, be it=20 in Poland, Hungary, or in

other countries. I think it is evident that even if = there had been=20 no Jews in these countries after

the war, the political developments in the post-Yalta = world would=20 have been the same. If so, is

the presence of Jews among communists a noteworthy = occurrence? And=20 why should we care

now? From the perspective of the contemporary Westerner = the story=20 of Jewish communists

seems rather exotic, an unimportant dead end of Jewish=20 history.

I disagree with this point of view. It is true that most = of them=20 were strongly un-Jewish,

that is, they tried hard to abandon their Jewishness. = Some authors=20 maintain that no

relationship existed between their origins and their=20 communism.17 After all, they clearly did

not act as=20 Jews. However, many of them = came back to=20 the Jewish world when the communist

world rejected them. Also, they had Jewish family = members. One=20 striking example is Jakub

Berman, number-two in Stalinist Poland, who was very far = from=20 paying heed to Jewish

concerns; at the same time, his brother, Adolf, was a = left-wing=20 Zionist who emigrated to

Israel. Also, many Marxist Jews had a strong Jewish = identity and=20 were =91Jewishly=92 active.

Bundists and left-wing Zionists believed in socialism = and in=20 revolution in a similar fashion to

communists.

Above all, the size of the phenomenon should not be=20 underestimated. Isaac Bashevis

Singer recalled how in the 1920s, in Warsaw, in the = coffee shops=20 attended by Jewish writers

and journalists =93everyone=94 was looking forward to = revolutionary=20 changes, and he alone was

=93living in the past=94. We are not talking about a = handful of=20 individuals. It was a social

phenomenon: radical leftist alternatives were dominant = in some=20 Jewish circles.

Also, it is a fact that Jews holding high official = positions in=20 postwar Poland=97as well

as in Hungary, Rumania, Czechoslovakia and = Lithuania=97were,=20 relatively speaking, very

numerous. Not as numerous, though, as the anti-Semitic = stereotype=20 to the effect that =91they

were all Jews=92 has it. In 1945, the bulletin of the = London-based=20 Polish Telegraphic Agency

stated that =93all official positions in ministries and = state=20 offices were filled by Jews=94.18

Krystyna Kersten reports a private note by Bierut, the = leader of=20 Stalinist Poland, who recorded

that while there were 438 Jews among 25,600 employees of = the state=20 security forces (1.7 per

cent), 67 (13.4 per cent) of the top 500 security = officers were=20 Jewish.19 According to internal

statistics compiled by the Polish Ministry of Interior = (made=20 available by Andrzej Paczkowski)

in the period 1944=961956 almost 30 per cent of top = officers were=20 Jewish.20 In 1953, Ostap

15 J. = Schatz,=20 The=20 Generation, p.=20 252.

16 In the = introduction=20 to the monumental volume Żydzi w Polsce=20 Odrodzonej [Jews in = Reborn=20 Poland] (Warsaw,

1928).

17 This = point has been=20 argued by, among others, my father (Warski=92s grandson): =91Fakty i = mity. O roli=20 żyd=F3w w

okresie stalinowskim=92, in Więż (1997), pp. 109=9622. English translation: =91Facts and Myths: = On the Role of=20 the

Jews during the Stalinist Period=92, in Więż Special Issue: Under One Heaven = (Warsaw, 1998), pp.=20 93=96110.

18 K. = Kersten,=20 Polacy, = żydzi, komunizm, p.=20 79.

19 K. = Kersten,=20 Polacy, = żydzi, komunizm, pp.=20 83=9684.

20 Aparat = bezpieczeństwa=92, in Instytucje Państwa Totalitarnego, research report of the Institute of Political

Dłuski wrote that in the Ministry of Foreign = Affairs there=20 were =938 directors of departments of

which 5 were Jews, [while] for the 12 available posts of = deputy=20 directors only 4 were

nominated, among whom 3 were Jews, and of 28 division = managers 18=20 were Jews.=9421

In Poland, żydzi w=20 UB, that is =93Jews in the = security=20 forces=94 has become a standard

image. This is an expression of anti-Semitic attitudes. = There is=20 no reason to believe that these

posts were occupied by Jews because they were Jewish. But even if we reject the=20 stereotype

and the generalization, it is wrong to ignore the = above-mentioned=20 figures as irrelevant.

Communism was=97and continues to be=97perceived as = =91the rule of Jews=92,=20 even by persons

who were far from being anti-Semites. In 1996, the = posthumous=20 diaries of two important

personalities=97the prominent writer, Maria = Dąbrowska and another=20 well-known writer and

journalist, Stefan Kisielewski=97were published in = Poland.=20 Anti-communist Kisielewski wrote

that =93Jews have always loved communism=94, but also = that =93Poland=20 without Jews is the saddest

possible Poland=94.22=20 Both writers mentioned =93the = ruling Jews=94 as=20 an evident fact of Stalinist

Poland.

This impression was probably partly derived from the = fact that=20 during the Second

World War Jews were seen as victims, only victims, and = nothing but=20 victims. However,

suddenly they were important, the =93resurrected = Judas=94.23 The image=20 of Jews participating in

power and in state administration incomparably more than = had been=20 the case in prewar

Poland, was so strange to Poles that it was considered = as=20 conspicuous.24 = Despite all these

reservations, the fact remains that communist Jews were = numerous=20 and influential. I believe

that this fact should be incorporated into their = thinking about=20 Jewish history by scholars and

by =91average=92 Jews alike. And to me the sheer number = of communist=20 Jews is not the only and

not even the most important aspect of the=20 problem.

5. The deepest problem is posed by the quasi-religious = character=20 of the communist

involvement of some Jews.

I can certainly understand Jews being pro-communist in = certain=20 periods. In the polarized

Poland of 1946 they unfortunately had little choice in = the=20 selection of allies. Communists

could be seen as the only force that could efficiently = defend Jews=20 against anti-Semitism. This

resulted in a vicious circle: the more Jews were afraid, = the more=20 they relied on the communist

authorities=97and at the beginning of the postwar period = on the Red=20 Army itself25=97and the

more they relied on them, the more they were threatened = and the=20 more afraid they became. It

was hard to step out of the circle. What then is the = problem (what=20 I see as a Jewish problem)?

The character of the alliance of Jews with communist = rulers was=20 not determined. The

cooperation of Jewish leaders with victorious communists = was=20 rather natural.26 = What they

could have avoided was the quasi-religious zeal with = which so many=20 of them assumed

communist positions. For some this had begun much = earlier. The=20 revolution was perceived by

some Jews in quasi-messianic terms. The fanaticism of = the early=20 revolutionaries was not

weaker than in the most extreme religious sects. The = party became=20 their family, Stalin their

Messiah. To understand the phenomenon of communism, we = must=20 perceive it also as a quasireligious

movement. Jewish leftist intellectuals produced = commentaries on=20 Marx, treating his

work much as =91holy=92 scripture. According to = testimonies gathered=20 by Schatz, in prewar

Studies (PAN, 1994), p. 61.

21 Quoted = after a=20 manuscript by D. Stola, The=20 Anti-Zionist Campaign in Poland 1967=961968, endnote = 10, p.=20 79.

22 S. = Kisielewski,=20 Dzienniki = 1968=961980 (Warsaw: Iskry, 1996).

23 A. = Smolar, =91Tabu i=20 niewinność=92 [Taboo and Innocence], = Aneks 41/42 (1986), pp. 89=96133, p. = 110.

24 This = aspect has been=20 stressed by J. T. Gross in Upiorna dekada [The=20 Horrible Decade] (Cracow: Universitas,

1998).

25 This = was described=20 by H. Grynberg in the novel Zwycięstwo [Victory].

26 See = the chapter=20 about the cooperation of Jews with state security in J. T. Gross=92s=20 Upiorna=20 dekada.

prisons they formed communist =91yeshivahs=92, adapting Talmudic dialectic = pilpul methods to

the study of their literature.27 After the Second World = War the=20 prewar communists entered the

state of =91holy madness=92. Even those who survived in = Russia were=20 not shaken in their faith.

Messianic anticipation was transformed into enthusiasm. = Politics=20 was perceived =93in truly

mystical terms . . . They saw themselves as active in . = . . the=20 beginning of a new era.=9428

Ex-communists often presented their experience using the = metaphor=20 of the =93God who

failed=94. Sergey Bulgakov described revolutionaries as = adherents of=20 a =93religion founded on

atheism=94.29=20 Nikolai Berdyaev was among the = first to show=20 that secularized Messianism was

the key to understanding modern revolutionaries. = Modern=97and=20 obviously not only Jewish.

It must be stressed that fanaticism was characteristic = of all=20 =91believing communists=92 (as

distinct from the pragmatic, career-oriented communists = in the=20 period of communist rule), and

not just of Jewish communists. Jewish communists = expressed their=20 quasi-religious zeal in a

Jewish style. The Messianic-like intensity, and the = uncritical=20 belief that communists would

end both anti-Semitism and discrimination of all kinds, = made them=20 ready to use any means to

make possible the building of the new communist order. = That is why=20 even well-meaning and

humane people could participate in the system of terror. = I see a=20 deep problem here, and a

matter of concern for Jews, because it shows the = dead-end of the=20 Jewish religious fervor and

Messianic yearnings when directed to false gods.

One can ask, however: how important is the Jewishness of = those=20 leftists and

communists? If this is just a matter of style, is it = perhaps=20 irrelevant?

6. There is no distinctive Jewish radicalism. There is = no =91Jewish=20 communism=92. Jews became

communists because of general = mechanisms.

Is the Jewishness of Jewish communists relevant? My = answer is that=20 it may be irrelevant,

but we have no right to assume that this is indeed the = case. It=20 needs to be proven. Otherwise,

we would be doing just what anti-Semites do when they = assume that=20 communism has a Jewish

nature, only in reverse. What must be recognized is the = existence=20 of a genuine problem here.

Have some elements of Jewish tradition or the Jewish = condition=20 influenced the

ideology and practice of communism? A full answer can be = given=20 only as a result of the

pursuit of a comprehensive research program.

Anti-Semites in Europe have often said that Jews created = communism=20 and that

communism is Jewish. Already in 1879 a report written by = the=20 Prussian police contained the

conclusion that =93Jewry is by nature a revolutionary=20 movement=94.30 = Also, Kisielewski, who was

never an anti-Semite, wrote that Jews =93created = communism=94. He=20 added that they =93should be

punished for this=94, but the ruling communists = =93punished them for=20 alleged treason against

communism=94. Is there a sense in which communism can be = reasonably=20 seen as a Jewish

creation? Clearly, Jews as a group did not create = communism, even=20 if Jews were prominent

among its founders. Also, organized Jewish communities = were not=20 lovers of communism,

even if some individual Jews were.

A comparison will be instructive. Christianity is really = a Jewish=20 creation, or rather it

was at the beginning. All its founders were Jewish. It = started as=20 a Jewish sect. Communism in

none of its forms has ever been a Jewish sect. In = addition,=20 Christianity depends on its

Jewish=97or Hebrew=97roots, and must always ponder their = significance.=20 Nothing like this has

ever been the case with socialism, with its many = currents. If we=20 look at the sources of

27 J. = Schatz,=20 The=20 Generation, p.=20 138.

28 J. = Schatz,=20 The Generation, = p. = 249.

29 Quoted = after I.=20 Shafarevich, Le = ph=E9nomene=20 socialiste (Paris, = 1977), p.=20 267.

30 J. = Schatz,=20 The Riddle of = Jewish=20 Radicalism, p. = 1.

communism we see a highly complex picture. We can = discern its=20 forerunners as far back as

the states of ancient Egypt or China, and in the = political=20 philosophy of Plato. The other

sources were listed by Erich Fromm: =93Marxist and other = forms of=20 socialism are the heirs of

prophetic Messianism, Christian Chiliastic sectarianism, = thirteenth-century Thomism,

Renaissance Utopianism, and eighteenth-century=20 Enlightenment.=9431 = It makes no sense to call

communism a Jewish creation even in the sense in which=20 Christianity is Jewish.

Nevertheless, it is possible to ask whether there are = features of=20 communism that make

it =91Jewish=92 in some sense. How deep were the = similarities between=20 Judaism and communism,

and, more generally, between Judaism and ideologies = based on=20 Marxism? Some authors stress

the importance of Jewish cultural heritage, especially = Messianism,=20 prophetic traditions, the

stress on social justice, the imperative to set the = world right.=20 Melvin Lasky believes that a line

can be drawn =93from the anger of the Biblical prophets = to the=20 modern tumults associated with

1917=94.32

As already mentioned, in order to understand the = phenomenon of=20 communism we

must look at it as a quasi-religious movement. Abraham = Kaplan=20 noticed that the communist

party became =93in effect, a priesthood=94.33 One can be=20 even more specific. According to

Kaplan,

the communist myth of human history begins with the Eden = of what=20 they call primitive communism;

man is then cursed with class differences and the class = struggle,=20 moves through the trials of a feudal and

bourgeois period, enters the purgatory of socialism, and = is=20 redeemed at last in the heaven of

communism. Production takes the place of Providence, = ownership is=20 sin, revolution is redemption.34

What is apparent in this elegant parallel is not so much = similarity with Judaism, but rather

structural affinity to Christianity! The result of the = analysis is=20 completely different from the

intentions of those who maintain that the nature of = communism is=20 Jewish. There is no

objective reason to stress its Jewish elements rather = than its=20 Christian ones. This reminds me

of an elderly Jew from the Warsaw synagogue who says he = is a=20 communist in the sense that

Jesus was a communist!

Those who practice the Jewish religious tradition rarely = become=20 radicals or

revolutionaries. The Jewish ideal of tsedek is=20 inconsistent with the revolutionary ethos. The

cultural heritage is not sufficient by itself to explain = the=20 choices of Jewish communists: while

some elements of tradition support leftist and radical = approaches,=20 others favor conservatism.

The tradition is more than comprehensive enough. The = problem=20 remains why one element is

selected and not another.

According to some, there exists a Jewish tendency to = extremism or=20 radical solutions.

Perhaps so. This is, however, not sufficiently specific. = Similar=20 characteristics are attributed,

for instance, to the Russians (Berdyaev: =93Communism = suits the=20 Russian soul.=94) and to the

French (Proudhon: Jacobinism is =93a kind of moral = pestilence=20 particular to the French

temperament.=94).35

My opinion is that, although there are similarities = between the=20 Judaic tradition and

communist thinking, they are not very deep. The = connection between=20 Jews and leftist ideas

and practice is not of an absolute character but limited = to=20 specific times and places. The

communist fanaticism of Jews often contained Jewish = ingredients=20 but there is no specifically

Jewish radicalism. I completely agree with Jaff = Schatz=92 solution=20 to the =93riddle of radical

31 Fromm, = Marx=92s = Concept of=20 Man, cited in M. = Lasky,=20 Utopia and = Revolution=20 (London, 1977), p.=20 66.

32 M. = Lasky,=20 Utopia and=20 Revolution, p.=20 67.

33 A. = Kaplan,=20 The New World = of Philosophy=20 (New York: Vintage, = 1961), p.=20 188.

34 A. = Kaplan,=20 The New World = of=20 Philosophy, p.=20 173.

35 M. = Lasky,=20 Utopia and=20 Revolution, p.=20 78.

Jews=94: there is no =93Jewish radicalism=94, there are = only radical=20 Jews.36 Individuals become

radical as a result of a process governed by general = mechanisms=20 and functioning in their

specific situations. For Jews it was a Jewish situation = and Jewish=20 heritage played a role.

Communism is not a Jewish product. Or rather, it is = certainly no=20 more Jewish in origin

than many other ideas of Western civilization, including = Christianity. At the same time, it is

true that Jews were prominent among European and = American (but not=20 Asian) communists.

The correct question is not =93Why did they create = communism?=94 or=20 =93Why is communism

Jewish?=94, but rather =93Why was communism so = attractive to=20 Jews?=94

7. It was not Judaism or Jewish traditions but the = social=20 situation that led Jews to communist

involvement.

There is no distinctive Jewish radicalism. There = existed, however,=20 processes leading Jews

to leftist radicalism. They had little to do with Jewish = traditions, but very much to do with the

situation of the Jews. The Biblical tradition of social = justice=20 only sometimes led to

revolutionary involvement. It all depended on the social = situation=20 of the Jews involved.

The mechanisms responsible for communist involvement = were=20 universal. For example,

feelings of hopelessness always lead to radical = attitudes. In the=20 case of Jews, the lack of hope

for satisfactory careers in a society permeated by = anti-Semitism=20 resulted in a belief in the

necessity of a revolutionary change in the social order. = Hopelessness was widespread in

prewar Europe and led to political radicalism. For Jews, = only=20 left-wing radicalism was

available, as right-wing radicals were deeply = anti-Semitic. Only=20 Zionism provided for Jews a

way of being both radical and right-wing.

In Poland before the Second World War there were very = few career=20 prospects for

bright Jewish young people. They were not accepted. The = =91reds=92=20 were an exception. This led

to a paradox: while communism was to some Jews, and = other=20 minorities, a way of

assimilating, they remained mostly among people similar = to=20 themselves, thereby perpetuating

their minority status.

By hopelessness I do not mean poverty. Poor people never = supported=20 communists only

because they were poor. Many remained conservative. On = the other=20 hand, it is extremely

significant that some children from well-to-do families = became=20 Marxists or even professional

revolutionaries. They did not have to escape poverty, = rather they=20 believed in a mission to help

others escape poverty. Jews figured prominently among = these=20 idealists.

Another general mechanism was the attraction of radical = views for=20 marginalized

intellectuals. = They were=20 important in cultural life, and in radical politics. According to = Isaac

Deutcher, the revolutionary =93non-Jewish Jews=94 = transcended the=20 particularistic and strove for

the universal. Before the two world wars, the alienation = of the=20 assimilated Jewish

intelligentsia was often painful. They were neither part = of the=20 traditional Jewish community

nor accepted by Gentile society. Marginality led to = self-hatred,=20 an internalization of anti-

Semitism. The double marginality, ethnic and religious, = produced=20 revolutionaries who sought

=93to have the non-Jews become like them, alienated from = traditional=20 religious and national

values. Only then would these revolutionaries cease to = feel=20 alienated.=9437

There is a simple proof that it was the situation rather = than=20 tradition that led Jews to

communism. In contemporary Israel, although not in the = first=20 decades of the state, the

Communist Party has been predominantly Arab. Again, this = was=20 caused by their social

situation and not by any fundamentally Islamic or Arab=20 characteristics of communism.

36 In the = book and=20 article already mentioned.

37 D. = Prager and J.=20 Telushkin, Why = the Jews?=20 The Reasons for Anti-Semitism (New York: Simon and Schuster,

1983), p. 60.

While the mechanisms that caused Jews to participate in = communism=20 were general, the

whole phenomenon does constitute part of modern Jewish = history.=20 Every radical,

revolutionary, or fanatic has his or her own reasons for = this=20 attitude. They are partly personal

and partly reflect one=92s condition or status resulting = from=20 belonging to one group or another.

For Jews, those reasons reflected the Jewish condition. = In=20 this sense they were Jewish. These

Jews had Jewish reasons, even if shallowly Jewish, and = brought a=20 Jewish color to the leftist

revolutionary movements.

8. Participation in evil could begin with noble and = selfless=20 intentions.

One could still ask: why should we remember the = Jewishness of the=20 communists,

especially of those who did not want to be part of the = Jewish=20 people, of Jewish history? My

answer is that what Jews did is usually considered as = part of=20 Jewish history, even if they=20 did

not act as Jews. Lists of=20 outstanding Jewish sportsmen are compiled for Jewish

encyclopedias: why not make one of the top Jewish = communists?=20 Jewish communists did not

represent Jewish interests (and Jewish Olympic medal = winners did=20 not represent Jews), but

they were perceived as Jews by others, Jews and non-Jews = alike.

Even if the above is accepted, one could still say that = these=20 facts belong to history and

there is no reason to remember them. I disagree. My = answer is=20 that, first, the story poses a

most important moral=20 problem. This is my personal = motive for=20 thinking about the subject. I

am not a historian but I am a committed Jew and I have = ancestors=20 who were communist

leaders.

Leftist radicalism contained an inherent evil. Jewish = communists=20 took part in a system

of terror. I do not say that they started out with = sinister=20 intentions. The original intentions

were often pure and sometimes very noble indeed. I, for = one, have=20 ancestors who were

communists, and I know that they did not want to do = evil. In fact,=20 this is precisely the reason

why the lesson offered by their story is significant. It = can be=20 instructive to all. Their history

can teach us something about the traps that not only = Jews can=20 encounter. The danger is

universal. We have seen many idealists-turned-terrorists = or=20 fighters-against-oppressionturned-

oppressors. Any case study can help us understand the = mechanism of=20 that change. And

the story of Jewish communists provides excellent = material for=20 study.

If the communists had not seized power, we would have = seen them=20 mostly as idealists

or fanatics, but essentially not as harmful ones. The = innocence of=20 the early revolutionaries is

best illustrated by a story whose events took place in = Kaluszyn,=20 in the Russian part of Poland,

in 1905. Three young revolutionaries came to the = rabbinical court=20 of the town. One shot into

the cupboard and demanded =93the money that the = bourgeoisie entrusts=20 when they come to

settle disputes=94. They were shown the little money = entrusted by=20 poor orphans, brides, and

widows as their inheritance or dowries. Wealthy people = left=20 promissory notes which were of

no use to the intruders. Then the youth said: =93Listen, = Rebe, we=20 won=92t take money from poor

orphans and widows, although we=92re desperately in need = of money.=94=20 They also said that they

would send one of their men the next day to fix the hole = made by=20 the revolver. Shortly

afterwards, they left, shouting =93Long live the = revolution!=94 And=20 then the Rebe said to his

colleagues: =93You see? A Jewish soul cannot be = fathomed. Even their=20 path includes pity

toward widows and orphans, and on account of that God = will forgive=20 them.=9438

This romantic view of revolutionaries is still shared by = some of=20 my American and

Western friends who remember the idealistic leftists who = cared=20 about justice. As the

communists took power and created a system of terror and = oppression, even those

38 S. = Kalushin. Quoted=20 after J. Kugelmass and J. Boyarin, From a Ruined Garden (New=20 York: Schocken, 1983),

pp. 118=9619.

communists who were themselves not part of the power = elite=97like=20 Western communists or

those who had died before the communist takeover=97have = been=20 included in the universe of

evil done by communists in power.

This is clearly a challenge to all communists, and not = only Jewish=20 ones. To me,

however, the drama of the Jewish revolutionaries is = closer and=20 more relevant. I can

sympathize with their dilemmas. I can understand the = feeling that=20 only a radical

reconstruction can mend the world that produced Hitler = and the=20 Shoah. At the same time, I am

horrified by the consequences of their choices and I = feel ashamed.=20 Moreover, I believe that all

Jews should understand the drama and share the feeling = of=20 uneasiness.

9. Moral responsibility can be indirect. Reemerging = Jewish=20 communities in Eastern Europe

should face the legacy of Jewish participation in = communism.=20 However, accepting a Jewish

share of moral responsibility does not make non-Jews = less=20 responsible.

I am not responsible for the bad things done by Jewish = communists,=20 even if some of them

happened to be my ancestors. The same is true of an = overwhelming=20 majority of Jews=97

American or Sephardic Jews certainly cannot be held = responsible,=20 and most of them have had

no personal connection with Jewish communists.

Guilt can only be individual. I can be ashamed = nevertheless. Even=20 those Jews who

were actively opposed to communism can feel shame. From = a Jewish=20 religious point of view,

it is not irrelevant what other, even non-religious and=20 anti-religious, Jews do. The whole

house of Israel, including its rebellious members, is = the partner=20 of the Covenant. If one sees

Jews according to a Talmudic principle, assuming all of = us to be=20 =93responsible for one another=94

(Kol = Israel arevim=20 ze ba-ze), then it is hard to = deny that=20 communist ideology and even more

communist practice have created a problem for all Jews. = Moral=20 responsibility can be indirect.

As in a family, if one family member does something = wrong the=20 others feel bad. The stronger

the identification, the stronger the feeling. Even from = a=20 completely secular perspective the fact

that so many Jews lost their minds in their belief in = communism=20 can be disquieting.

There also exists a logical argument. If one can feel = pride=20 because of the

accomplishment of a particular Jew, even a = =91non-Jewish=92 Jew who=20 did not act as a Jew, then

by the same token one can feel ashamed because of crimes = committed=20 by Jews. Anyone who

has ever taken pride in, for example, Freud=92s = accomplishments,=20 should be ready to feel

ashamed because of Kaganowicz in Russia or Berman in = Poland.=20 Either both feelings or

neither of them.

Jewish communists have left a disturbing legacy that = needs to be=20 confronted by the reemerging

Jewish communities in East Central Europe. This is = not to say=20 that Jews are guilty

and non-Jews are not. That is the anti-Semitic opinion = and I shall=20 have nothing to do with it.

Accepting a Jewish share of moral responsibility does = not make=20 non-Jews less responsible or

less morally involved. The problem of communist crimes = remains a=20 challenge for the left

(obviously, I do not propose to ignore the crimes = committed by the=20 right) and for many groups

and nations.

It sh ould be evident that I am not trying to free = anyone from=20 blame, but my theses

on Jews and communism have made some people think that I = am=20 talking about Jewish moral

responsibility in order to absolve Christians, Poles, = and everyone=20 else. This is not the case.

Communism was the trouble, not the = Jews.

Conclusion

10. = Objective research=20 is needed to clarify the extent and nature of Jewish participation = in

communism. The tragic consequences of the anti-Semitic = myth of=20 =91Jewish communism=92 should

impose no taboo.

I have argued that Jewish communists, taken together, = formed a=20 category that belongs to

the history of the Jewish people (Theses 1 through 4). = Jaff Schatz=20 compares the place of

Jewish communists within the general history of Jews = with that of=20 the followers of Sabbatai

Zvi.39 = No more but no less!

There is no simple formula that explains the problem of = the=20 relations between Jews

and communism, or answers the question =93How Jewish = were Jewish=20 communists?=94 Also,

there is no simple answer to the problem of the affinity = between=20 Jewishness and communism.

One must apply a variety of explanations. First, one has = to refer=20 to the cultural and religious

background in order to explain the Jewish flavor of = communist=20 activities. Second, one must

take into account the social situation of Jews in order = to=20 understand how the general

psychological mechanism leading to radicalism functioned = in the=20 case of Jews (Theses 5

through 7).

Only anti-Semitic myths provide simple solutions. They = usually=20 express a vision of a

=91Jewish world conspiracy=92. According to a notorious = book on the=20 =91Jewish problem=92 which ran

to dozens of editions in Nazi Germany, Marxism = represents the=20 nature of Jews. The author

explicitly referred to the tradition of theological, or = rather=20 demonological, anti-Semitism. He

wrote that =93the Jew is the devil = incarnate=94.40 This,=20 incidentally, shows that theology is as

important in the analysis of anti-Semitism as it is in = the=20 analysis of the processes leading to

communism.

Anti-Semitic nonsense should not stop research on the=20 relationships between Jews and

communism. We should not deny the existence of any = relationship,=20 although it is true that

Jewish communists did the same as other communists. = There are=20 people who denounce as

racist any attempt to find out the number of Jews among = communists=20 and in communist

institutions. They even resent any mention that someone = was Jewish=20 (by origin). I believe that

they impose a virtual taboo because they have not come = to terms=20 either with their own Jewish

ancestry or with the collective Jewish moral = responsibility for=20 the Jewish involvement in

communism. If Jewishness is really irrelevant in that = story why=20 should it be ignored? Lev

Trotsky used to say: =93I am not a Jew, I am an = internationalist=94,=20 but why should we follow his

approach?

There was no Jewish communism, but there were Jewish = communists.=20 Discussing

them and their role does not have to lead to putting all = the blame=20 for communist crimes on

Jews.

I have presented (Theses 8 and 9) the moral problem = posed by the=20 extent and the

nature of Jewish participation in the communist = enterprise. That=20 activity was not done in the

name of the Jews, but they were Jews, nevertheless. A = disturbing=20 legacy has been left for all

Jews, and in particular for the Jews of East Central = Europe and=20 their reemerging Jewish

communities. Discussion of this must not be left to=20 anti-Semites.

Sensitivity and good will is needed to understand the = story of=20 Jewish communists. It is

a closed chapter, so it can be fully described. And this = can be=20 instructive to all. As the famous

anonymous saying goes: =93Jews are just like anybody = else, only more=20 so . . .=94

39 J. = Schatz,=20 The=20 Generation, p. = 2

40 Th. = Fritsch,=20 Handbuch der=20 Judenfrage, p. 236; = quoted after=20 A. W. M. Gerrits, =91Anti-Semitism and Anti-

Communism=92, p. 35.

------=_NextPart_000_009B_01C83EE8.D96C3020-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:08 EST 2007 Article: 1233788 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233788 soc.culture.usa:2066717 soc.culture.canada:594986 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.what-if References: <9NWdnSGBkpapX_7anZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: When did the world learn about the Holocaust(tm)? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197720862 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:14:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:14:22 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZUEK@YUDUWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:14:22 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:9NWdnSGBkpapX_7anZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@giganews.com... > When did the world > learn about the Holocaust? > 20 March 2006 > > British, American, and Russian troops defeated Germany in 1945 and opened > up the Nazi prison camps to release the prisoners. > > > However, it took a while for the world to figure out what was going on > inside those camps. Actually, the story of what happened during World War > II is still changing. > > > Eisenhower, Churchill, and de Gaulle did not know of the Holocaust? > A French Professor, Robert Faurisson, claims to have read thousands of > pages of memoirs of World War 2 from Eisenhower, Churchill, and de Gaulle, > and there was not a single word about gas chambers: > www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/FaurisArch/RF981020.html > Why would those three leaders ignore such an incredibly large slaughter in > their writings about the war? > One of the reasons it is taking so long to understand what happened inside > the Nazi camps is that many European nations have laws that prohibit > investigations of the Holocaust. > How do the Europeans expect to understand World War II when they have laws > that prohibit investigations? The Europeans are fools to allow these laws. > Another brief summary of Eisenhower and Churchill on the Holocaust: > http://judicial-inc.biz/eisenhower_churchill_holocaust.htm > > Auschwitz; how many people were killed? > Americans have the freedom to investigate the Holocaust. Not surprisingly, > our ideas on what happened at the Nazi camps change through time. > If you have access to old encyclopedias, or a library that has copies of > old newspapers, take a look for yourself. For example, the entry for > Auschwitz in the 1965 World Book Encyclopedia has: > > From the 1965 edition > Auschwitz > In June, 1941, it became an extermination center when four huge gas > chambers were installed. Rudolf Hoess, who directed the camp for more than > three years, testified at the Nuremberg trials that more than 2.5 million > persons were executed at Auschwitz. He said that another 500,000 starved > to death there. > The 2006 on-line edition reduces the number of people killed by 50%: > > From the 2006 on-line edition > Auschwitz > About 1 1/4 million people died... > ... > The Nazis used gas chambers and other methods to murder most of these > people. Other victims died of starvation or disease, and some were worked > to death in nearby factories. Most of the victims at Auschwitz were > Jewish. The Nazis killed them as part of a plan to murder all the Jews in > Europe. > www.worldbook.com/wb/Article?id=ar038220&st=auschwitz > > Obviously historians reduced the number of deaths in half because they > could not find evidence to support the figures provided by Rudolph Hoess > during his trial. Was Hoess merely guessing? Or did he exaggerate his > killings in order to make himself into the greatest murderer in human > history? Or was he forced to make exaggerated claims? > > Where was the Holocaust in 1965? > In the 1965 World Book Encyclopedia there is no entry for "Holocaust". > However, the 2006 on-line edition has an entry, and it states: > > From the 2006 on-line edition > Holocaust > ...was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of Jews and others by the > Nazis... > ...Adolf Hitler wanted to eliminate all Jews as part of his aim to conquer > the world. By the end of the war, the Nazis had killed about 6 million > Jewish men, women, and children-more than two-thirds of the Jews in > Europe. > ... > Historians estimate that perhaps as many as 11 million people were killed, > including the Jews. Many of the Holocaust victims were killed in specially > constructed gas chambers, and their bodies were then burned. > www.worldbook.com/wb/Article?id=ar259685&st=holocaust > > If the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, and even if we assume all 1.25 million > people who were killed at Auschwitz were Jewish, where were the other 4.75 > million killed? Dachau? No. Even the Encyclopaedia Britannica, which may > have a British bias, agrees with Americans that Dachau was not used for > killing prisoners: > www.britannica.com/eb/article-9028484 > So where were those 4.75 million Jews killed? Add up all of the killings > from all of the Nazi camps, and you will not come close to the 6 million > figure. And remember, the 6 million figure is only for Jews. The official > Holocaust story also claims that 3 million Poles were killed, and 1.5 > million other people were killed. > There is no entry for Treblinka in the 1965 World Book Encyclopedia, but > the 2006 edition has: > > From the 2006 on-line edition > Treblinka > ...was a death camp... > ... > From July 1942 to August 1943, about 840,000 people died in gas chambers > there. > www.worldbook.com/wb/Article?id=ar565550&st=treblinka > > To kill 840,000 people in gas chambers in only 13 months is an incredible > achievement. Why didn't the 1965 edition bother to mention this amazing > slaughter? > australiafreepress.org has a short video describing an investigation of > Treblinka, along with links to articles, to show that it was not a "death > camp". > www.australiafreepress.org/subindexpages/treblinka.htm > > Hollywood gives us our Holocaust > Why was there no entry for "Holocaust" in the 1965 edition? Because the > expression "Holocaust" did not become common until Hollywood decided to > promote it in the 1970s. > There is interesting information about the Hollywood connection and the > development of the Holocaust stories here: > http://judicial-inc.biz/frank_collins.htm > Please find the emotional strength to look at that page, and its links. We > can disagree on details, but all adults should be capable of looking at > this issue. > > > Conclusion > There is only one way to resolve all of these disputes. Specifically, the > European goyim must grow a backbone and get rid of the laws that prohibit > investigations of the Holocaust. > What is wrong with the European Goyim? If you have goy friends or > relatives in Europe, tell them to stop embarrassing us, and starting > helping us! > Most people's view of World War II, the Holocaust, and most other subjects > comes from television, movies, books, magazines, and newspapers, all of > which are dominated by Zionists. Goyim should not exist on a diet of > Zionist propaganda. Get a difference of opinion! > Here is an introduction to the Holocaust: > www.EricHufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm > Also, please note that some Jews provide a different and very important > perspective, such as David Cole: > DavidCole_Auschwitz.html > And, of course, Benjamin Freedman: > www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Freedman.html > Remember, I posted an article that says that the idea came to live in 1939, before work camps were operational but only 20 years later it became popularized by marketing. Just when the evidence was being destroyed the holocaust myth was beginning to take shape. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:09 EST 2007 Article: 1233801 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233801 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Anti Polonism, Anti Polish Sentiments. The forgotten victims Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01C83EE7.ADBB2630" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <9jP8j.24514$4V6.1136@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197719877 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:57:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:57:57 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFEQR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:57:57 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C83EE7.ADBB2630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a.. "You are standing opposite to the most dangerous, fanatic enemy of = German existence, German honour and German reputation in the world: The = Poles." Slogan of the German nationalistic Hakata movement[50]=20 b.. "Poles suck in anti-Semitism with their mothers' milk.[51] This is = something that is deeply imbued in their tradition, their mentality. = Like their loathing of Russia. The two things are not connected, of = course. But that, too, is something very deep, like their hatred of Am = Yisrael. Today, though, there are elements [in Poland] that are cleansed = of this anti-Semitism." Former Prime Minister of Israel Yitzhak Shamir = in an interview on September 8, 1989, Friday Jerusalem Post=20 c.. "So clobbeth the Poles so that they despair; they have my deepest = sympathy for their situation, but, if we want to exist, we have no = choice but to wipe them out ('ausrotten'); the wolf cannot help it that = he was created by God the way he is, but one shoots him yet, if one = can." Otto von Bismarck=20 d.. "Poland's existence is intolerable and incompatible with the = essential conditions of Germany's life. Poland must go and will go - as = a result of her own internal weaknesses and of action by Russia - with = our aid. For Russia, Poland is even less tolerable than it is for us; = Russia will never put up with Poland's existence. With Poland, one of = the strongest pillars of the Versailles System will fall. To attain this = goal must be one of the firmest aiming points of German politics, = because it is attainable. Attainable only by means of, or with the help = of, Russia. [...] The restoration of the border between Germany and = Russia is the precondition for regaining strength of both sides. Germany = and Russia within the borders of 1914 should be the basis for an = agreement between us [...]." - Hans von Seeckt, Chief of the Troop = Office of the German Army, responsible for shaping German foreign = policy, writing after the Treaty of Rapallo (1922).=20 e.. "I have issued the command - and I'll have anybody who utters but = one word of criticism executed by firing squad - that our war aim does = not consist in reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction = of the enemy. Accordingly I have placed my Totenkopf Units in readiness = - for the present only in the East - with orders to them to send to = death, mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of = Polish race and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space = (Lebensraum) which we need. Who, after all, speaks today of the = annihilation of the Armenians?" - Adolf Hitler. (the authenticity of = this quote is disputed, see Armenian quote)=20 f.. "All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that = the great German people should consider it their major task to destroy = all Poles." Heinrich Himmler.=20 g.. "[Poles are] cattle in human form." Johann Georg Forster, = 18th-century Prussian writer.=20 h.. "Wouldn't it be wonderful to put all Poles in oven?" Dr. Hermann = Voss, chief anatomist at the Reich University of Posen[52]=20 i.. "[Poles are] more animals than human beings." Joseph Goebbels, = Nazi German propaganda minister.=20 j.. "Heute gestohlen, morgen in Polen." (German for "Stolen today, = tomorrow in Poland.")[53]A German saying portraying Poles as a nation of = thieves.=20 k.. "[Poland is] an historic failure, which has won her freedom not by = her own exertions, but by the blood of others." David Lloyd-George, = 1919, during Polish fight for independence of the newly freed country.=20 l.. "Poliakam, panam, sobakam sobachya smert!." [For Poles, = landowners, for dogs - a dog's death!] - allegedly[54] a propaganda = slogan of Soviets during Soviet aggression in 1939.=20 m.. "We have to overcome all signs of antijewishness, anti-judaism = (dislike born out of wrong understanding of Church's teachings), = antisemitism (hatred born out of national or racial prejudice), that = happened or still exist among christians. We expect the same = determination towards eradicating anti-polonism." Statement by Polish = Roman Catholic Church Episcopate on August 25 2000 during the meeting on = Jasna Gora monastery [55].=20 n.. "The conscience of the Polish nation would be sick and mortally = wounded if we did not ask another question: even if now with weapons in = hand did we not do at least as much as possible to help and save the = Jews? Yet Poles are often wronged when, in the world, too far-reaching = generalizations are drawn concerning the collaboration of some Poles in = the tracking down of the Jews, or the blackmailing of them. Criminal and = amoral social margins exist in every community, and among their victims = at the time in Poland were not only Jews, but also general Grot Rowecki, = and thousands of soldiers of the anti-Nazi conspiracy. We should reject = irresponsible generalizations in this matter, just as we should reject = generalizations that wrong other nations. Anti-Polonism is not morally = any better than anti-Semitism or anti-Ukrainism." Jan J=F3zef Lipski.=20 o.. "We have already formed displacement policies regarding the Polish = population within Poland; the ultimate task is to wipe out the Poles and = repopulate lands that rightfully belong to Germany" Adolf Hitler, April = 13, 1941 speech ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C83EE7.ADBB2630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  • "You are standing opposite to the most dangerous, fanatic enemy of = German=20 existence, German honour and German reputation in the world: The = Poles."=20 Slogan of the German nationalistic Haka= ta=20 movement[50]=20
  • "Poles suck in anti-Semitism = with their=20 mothers' milk.[51] This is something that is deeply imbued in = their=20 tradition, their mentality. Like their loathing of Russia. The two = things are=20 not connected, of course. But that, too, is something very deep, like = their=20 hatred of Am Yisrael. Today, though, there are elements [in Poland] = that are=20 cleansed of this anti-Semitism." Former Prime Minister of Israel Yitzhak = Shamir in an=20 interview on September 8, 1989, Friday Jerusalem Post=20
  • "So clobbeth the Poles so that they despair; they have my deepest = sympathy=20 for their situation, but, if we want to exist, we have no choice but = to wipe=20 them out ('ausrotten'); the wolf cannot help it that he was created by = God the=20 way he is, but one shoots him yet, if one can." Otto von = Bismarck=20
  • "Poland=92s existence is intolerable and incompatible with the = essential=20 conditions of Germany=92s life. Poland must go and will go =97 as a = result of her=20 own internal weaknesses and of action by Russia =97 with our aid. For = Russia,=20 Poland is even less tolerable than it is for us; Russia will never put = up with=20 Poland's existence. With Poland, one of the strongest pillars of the=20 Versailles System will fall. To attain this goal must be one of the = firmest=20 aiming points of German politics, because it is attainable. Attainable = only by=20 means of, or with the help of, Russia. [...] The restoration of the = border=20 between Germany and Russia is the precondition for regaining strength = of both=20 sides. Germany and Russia within the borders of 1914 should be the = basis for=20 an agreement between us [...]." =97 Hans von = Seeckt, Chief=20 of the Troop Office of the German Army, responsible for shaping German = foreign=20 policy, writing after the Treaty of = Rapallo=20 (1922). =
  • "I have issued the command =97 and I'll have anybody who utters = but one word=20 of criticism executed by firing squad =97 that our war aim does not = consist in=20 reaching certain lines, but in the physical destruction of the enemy.=20 Accordingly I have placed my Totenkopf Units in = readiness=20 =97 for the present only in the East =97 with orders to them to send = to death,=20 mercilessly and without compassion, men, women, and children of Polish = race=20 and language. Only thus shall we gain the living space (Lebensraum) which = we need.=20 Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" = =97 Adolf=20 Hitler. (the authenticity of this quote is disputed, see Armenian = quote)=20
  • "All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that = the=20 great German people should consider it their major task to destroy all = Poles."=20 Heinrich = Himmler.=20
  • "[Poles are] cattle in human form." Johann Georg = Forster, 18th-century Prussian writer.=20
  • "Wouldn't it be wonderful to put all Poles in oven?" Dr. Hermann = Voss,=20 chief anatomist at the Reich University of Posen[52]=20
  • "[Poles are] more animals than human beings." Joseph = Goebbels, Nazi=20 German propaganda minister. =
  • "Heute gestohlen, morgen in Polen." (German for "Stolen = today,=20 tomorrow in Poland.")[53]A German saying portraying Poles as a nation of = thieves.=20
  • "[Poland is] an historic failure, which has won her freedom not by = her own=20 exertions, but by the blood of others." David = Lloyd-George,=20 1919, during Polish fight for independence of the newly freed country. =
  • "Poliakam, panam, sobakam sobachya smert!." [For Poles, = landowners,=20 for dogs =97 a dog's death!] - allegedly[54] a propaganda slogan of Soviets during Soviet=20 aggression in 1939.=20
  • "We have to overcome all signs of antijewishness, anti-judaism = (dislike=20 born out of wrong understanding of Church's teachings), antisemitism = (hatred born=20 out of national or racial prejudice), that happened or still exist = among=20 christians. We expect the same determination towards eradicating=20 anti-polonism." Statement by Polish Roman Catholic Church Episcopate = on August=20 25 2000 during the meeting on Jasna Gora monastery [55].=20
  • "The conscience of the Polish nation would be sick and mortally = wounded if=20 we did not ask another question: even if now with weapons in hand did = we not=20 do at least as much as possible to help and save the Jews? Yet Poles = are often=20 wronged when, in the world, too far-reaching generalizations are drawn = concerning the collaboration of some Poles in the tracking down of the = Jews,=20 or the blackmailing of them. Criminal and amoral social margins exist = in every=20 community, and among their victims at the time in Poland were not only = Jews,=20 but also general Grot Rowecki, and thousands of soldiers of the = anti-Nazi=20 conspiracy. We should reject irresponsible generalizations in this = matter,=20 just as we should reject generalizations that wrong other nations.=20 Anti-Polonism is not morally any better than anti-Semitism or = anti-Ukrainism."=20 Jan = J=F3zef=20 Lipski.=20
  • "We have already formed displacement policies regarding the Polish = population within Poland; the ultimate task is to wipe out the Poles = and=20 repopulate lands that rightfully belong to Germany" Adolf Hitler, = April 13,=20 1941 speech
------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C83EE7.ADBB2630-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:10 EST 2007 Article: 1234328 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234328 soc.culture.israel:1663252 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel References: <2ncam3pick100r2stmuk7viui426280t3d@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Conclusive proof that "Cramer" is a forger Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1197848112 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:35:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:35:12 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:35:12 GMT "drahcir" wrote in message news:2ncam3pick100r2stmuk7viui426280t3d@4ax.com... > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:08:42 +0000 (UTC), RJ111 > wrote: > >> Look at Message-ID: , >>in which "Cramer" asserts to post the content of the article >>"Cold Reminder", NY Times, Dec. 3 1994. >> >> Unfortunately for him, the NYT archives are now >>free. As everyone can easily check by visiting >>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DB1F30F930A35751C1A962958260, >>the article "Cramer" posted has nothing to do with the >>actual article. >> >> To make matters worse for "Cramer", even his sidekick >>"floresrikitic" wrote that "anyone with room temp IQ" would >>realize that the article was not taken from the NY Times >>(Message-ID: <1182105152.976473.83210@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>). >> >> >>RJ. > > Good catch. wow, such a good catch. u want noble prize for that From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:10 EST 2007 Article: 1234329 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.music.rush:631441 alt.fan.adolf-hitler:18258 alt.revisionism:1234329 alt.movies.spielberg:32840 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,alt.fan.adolf-hitler,alt.revisionism,alt.movies.spielberg,alt.fan.clint-eastwood References: <90ddf1a1-5917-4990-a46b-77907b87d341@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: 1936 Olympics everyone wanted Hitler's autograph! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1197848351 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:39:11 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:39:11 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:39:11 GMT "LIBERATOR" wrote in message news:90ddf1a1-5917-4990-a46b-77907b87d341@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > http://www.finalsolution88.com/images/Adolf%20Hitler%20PhotoGallery%20Picture%20033%20of%20100%20(get%20'Adolf%20Hit.jpg > > These people aren't Germans, they're from the other countries. > > What does that tell you about his leadership? He was a great leader, great speaker and a great leader, unfortunately history books are written by the winners and Hitler lost although his legacy lives on. He did a lot for Germany and had a hand in making Germany what it is right now, which is a leader in many technological breakthroughs and research and development. Unlike Lenin who led his country by terror, Hitler led by example. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:10 EST 2007 Article: 1234330 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802056 soc.culture.israel:1663253 alt.revisionism:1234330 soc.veterans:391356 alt.military.retired:349490 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,soc.veterans,alt.military.retired References: <13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Israeli bastards murdered US sailors - USS Liberty attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1197848410 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:40:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:40:10 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@@S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:40:10 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com... > "I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through > diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't > believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was > outrageous " > > -- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk > > > http://www.gtr5.com/ > > > On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and > brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and > naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge > that > this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden > for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. This > USS > Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory > of the 34 brave men who died. > > > > The Attack > > > After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly > aircraft over flights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of > Israel > attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was > identified as a US naval ship nine hours before the attack by Israeli > reconnaissance aircraft and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and > aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five > knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to > anyone. > > The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to > contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another > 174 > were wounded. The ship, a $40 Million Dollar state of the art signals > intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for > scrap. > > > The Cover Up > > > Despite a near-uniform consensus that the Israeli attack was made with > full > knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration > began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though individual administration > officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, > the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty > parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They > concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. > Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an > accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply > allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder. > > > Anti-Semitism and the Anti-American Apologists > . > > The USS Liberty Memorial site abhors the racist and ill-informed positions > taken by the Liberty Lobby, the American Free Press, and similar > anti-Semitic organizations. We repudiate their comments and oppose them in > every way. The campaign for accountability for the attack on USS Liberty > has > no room for hatemongers. We do not seek harmfor any country or people, > only > accountability for the criminal acts perpetrated against us. > > Nonetheless, the legion of pro-Israel, anti-American apologists, while > small, makes up for its lack of numbers and inability to mount any kind of > legitimate defense by launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone > who attempts to raise the issue of the attack being deliberate. These > anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Rather > they rely on "big lie" propaganda and attack anyone who questions the > Israeli position as being "anti-Semitic". > > For detailed information about the power of the pro-Israel lobby, please > read The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. See also, The Pro-Israel > Lobby. > > The Betrayal of American Veterans > . > Americans who volunteer for military service effectively write a blank > check, payable to "The United States of America," for an amount "up to and > including my life." The United States, in turn, promises to spend these > checks responsibly. That bargain implicitly includes a promise by the > United > States to seek retribution against anyone who harms them. In the case of > USS > Liberty, The United States of America is in default of its obligations. > > > > http://www.gtr5.com/ > failed black flag operation, that's all. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:10 EST 2007 Article: 1234332 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234332 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <9NWdnSGBkpapX_7anZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@giganews.com> <38f9b4b4-c4a3-4b33-938e-d7e8d7a5d658@o42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> <3fd3d6a9-0782-459a-9b51-a47b8e8d601e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0277e6d2-4e2f-4f68-b9bc-15bbdb9d59b8@e67g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: When did the world learn about the Holocaust(tm)? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1197848788 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:46:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:46:28 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BT]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:46:28 GMT wrote in message news:0277e6d2-4e2f-4f68-b9bc-15bbdb9d59b8@e67g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > On 16 dec, 13:14, "B'injamin Cr'amer" > wrote: >> wrote in message >> >> news:3fd3d6a9-0782-459a-9b51-a47b8e8d601e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> > On 15 dec, 15:10, "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote: >> >> wrote in message >> >> >>news:38f9b4b4-c4a3-4b33-938e-d7e8d7a5d658@o42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> > On 15 dec, 14:14, "Snow" wrote: >> >> >> >> Remember, I posted an article that says that the idea came to live >> >> >> in >> >> >> 1939, >> >> >> before work camps were operational but only 20 years later it >> >> >> became >> >> >> popularized by marketing. Just when the evidence was being >> >> >> destroyed >> >> >> the >> >> >> holocaust myth was beginning to take shape. >> >> >> > Let's look at this "myth" >> >> >> > Who had such resources to product millions of "fake" documents that >> >> > Bad Arolsen contains? >> >> >> > Who had such resources to train thousands of witnesses to tell the >> >> > same story? >> >> >> > Who had such resources to force all nazi-criminals to tell the same >> >> > story? >> >> >> > Who had such resources to build up "fake" camps? >> >> >> > All these in the end of the war or in the first years after the WWII >> >> > when the whole Europe was in turmoil and people tried just to >> >> > survive >> >> > as best as they could. >> >> >> > Just curious >> >> >> Just as I'm curious about your hold on reality, wankywiking. >> >> >> > -- >> >> > Wotan >> >> > Translation: I can't answer because I'm a incapable and igonrant troll >> > and I have admitted that I'm nothing but a troll. >> >> Oh dear. The poor little wankywiking is all angry. >> >> Is it something I've said? > > I asked few questions, not a difficult at all, based on common sense > but obviously even they are too difficult for you since you can't > answer them. > > > Translation: I can't answer because I'm a incapable and igonrant troll > and I have admitted that I'm nothing but a troll. > > -- > Wotan > how about you keep your translations to yourself or try translating zionist polititians. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:11 EST 2007 Article: 1234365 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802083 alt.religion.christianity:384905 alt.bible:1278861 alt.revisionism:1234365 soc.culture.europe:597710 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854827 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:27:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:27:07 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:27:07 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:Z_idnStcg9mQIv7anZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:C3P8j.24512$4V6.7723@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message >> news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Why were they "Christian" thugs? >>> >>> Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. >>> >>> Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? >> >> >> Yes it does. Personally never heard of Christian thugs. Did they have big >> crosses on their foreheads. But Christianity is being attacked lately >> left and right. First the news cant shut up about priests abuse then >> Zionists banned prayer and crosses in public places. the word GOD is also >> being banned. Zionists even went as far as trying to remove it from the >> money 'in GOD we trust, and from constitution. >> Family values are also being attacked. Republicans, many are Zionists >> are loosing Christian voting base. Its Sodoma and Gomora here in USA. >> modern Babylon. >> >> PS. its all strange, will reply to this post within hours such a looser >> he is, he is predictable. > > He, RJ11, Tal Henry, Concerned Aussie, NoSpamAtAll, A little sanity are > all Ron JacobsOn. > > It's a legendary liar and also has raised the practice of making out of > context posts to an art form. > > I have the fuckwit (all of them) killfiled, although I get the occasional > message of his forwarded to me by colleagues. One doing the rounds at the > moment has me bankrupting a company, clearing off with the money and > knowing some woman I've never heard of. He will continue posting this > until some of the more gullible start believing it. He's a dreadful little > man and a disgusting human being. That he has Salzman et al in his "team" > does not surprise me one jot. > > I know he has attempted to contact people he assumes are myself and has > made a complete pig of himself. > > It's a complete fool. that is totally fucked up that these people will do anything to ruin someone's personal life. Its one thing for Sara to be involved in protests against Zundel or Irving but its another thing to try to ruin someone's personal life because of disagreement in the newsgroup. I see McVay saying 'snow from Connecticut' although I never mentioned my location, its obvious he intentionally looked up my IP and indeed it does say Connecticut. So if he or his followers intentionally looked up my IP, I am sure they tried to find more info on me and others. Rule number one, never share any personal information as these people are unpredictable and will do anything to ruin someone's career and personal life. It seems to go both way though as I heard Sara's elderly father had been receiving personal attacks. I don't understand why would anyone want to take it beyond this newsgroup. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:11 EST 2007 Article: 1234366 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.bible:1278862 alt.revisionism:1234366 soc.culture.europe:597711 soc.culture.jewish:1802084 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.jewish References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <90K8j.65$0T3.3@trnddc08> Subject: Re: Lying Bigots Prove Their Insane Stupidy WAS: Smartarse Jewess Provokes Attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <7hk9j.31769$JD.26261@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854915 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:28:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:28:35 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:28:35 GMT wrote in message news:P8c9j.5909$c82.4558@trnddc01... > > Amazing how these jackasses can pretend they > know *anything* after getting this so completely > "bass ackwards" > > Susan > > On 15-Dec-2007, "Professor Bugsbomb" wrote: > >> "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message >> news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... >> > Why were they "Christian" thugs? >> > >> > Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. >> > >> > Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? >> >> And they wonder why no one likes them lol When the Brooklyn Hasids go >> on >> a >> rampage and riot, as they frequently do, they say there's a pogrom >> against >> them lol >> A jew is the type that while hitting you will be screaming that you're >> attacking him lol That is so true. A jew is the type who will spray paint a swastika on his door and will scream racism. lol. > > >> > "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message >> > news:13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com... >> >> Ignorant thug "christians" brutally attack a Jewish man >> >> who wished everyone a happy Hanukkah. >> >> >> >> Muslim man comes to their aid. >> >> >> >> http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0db7b365-a288-4708-857b-8bdb545cbd0f&vxChannel=PostNoAds&vxClipId=1458_209345&vxBitrate=700 From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:11 EST 2007 Article: 1234367 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802085 alt.bible:1278863 alt.revisionism:1234367 soc.culture.europe:597712 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854971 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:29:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:29:31 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:29:31 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... > In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, > Doomsday Cultist wrote: > > [...] > >>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. > > There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and > you hate Jews. > > You're welcome. You are a revisionist because you are a permanent member of this newsgroup alt.revisionism. > > -- > "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. > It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." > (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:11 EST 2007 Article: 1234369 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802088 alt.bible:1278867 alt.revisionism:1234369 soc.culture.europe:597714 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> <13m8dp6kuj3ul32@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197855225 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:45 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:33:45 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13m8dp6kuj3ul32@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Kurt Knoll wrote: >>All of them are liars Kenneth because you do not want the truth to come >>out. > > I agree, Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll. All Holocaust deniers are > indeed liars. Exactly and you lied that 99.99% of people know Irving. Isn't that right Mr. McVay. We all know I am a liar and make sure you remind everyone and don’t forget to post the questions for me. Thanks. > > 27 Statements Qualifying Kurt Knoll as the Intellectual Giant > of Holocaust Denial: > > 1. "Go and read what Professor Faurisson has to say about dissecting the > Holocaust. Could it be this was the reason why he was Assassinated > twice." <3c962a6e_2@binaries.vphos.net, Mar. 18, 2002> > > 2. "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail Bu you people > did hang him after that." 2007> > > 3. "No, I myself am not anti-Semitic, I just don't like Jews!" > > 4. "No wonder years after the war was over he found some more > diaries of Ann Frank and she did not know about it." > > 5. "By refinishion you i mean you on their side definetly you > opinons are." > > 6. "People want to know all the facts whatever they are true > or not." > > 7. "We all know it but they will have us believe they have > absolutely no influence on governments. Not believing it > would be anti emetic." > > 8. "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown > typewriter in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state > department about in 1940." > > 9. "Listen guy. Your holocuast industries is clear. For > another trik and I'll hold my scrotum in my mouth for as > long as it taks." > > 10. "If the holocaust critics are stupid it is because Jews > are at times outright corrupt. What is it really you do want > them to believe." > > 11. "Well the con you documents a single that I originated. > Give me the date of the posting and the title." > Nov. 7, 2007 > > 12. "Since all you knowledge is coming out of your holocaust > Fairydale book I will not your naivety holding against you." > > 13. "I am not stressed out since I can analyze your holohoax > in my urine." > > 14. "When I wend and stuck my penis in my ear, I know that I am right!" > > 15. "How do you do fact finding if you do not want to know anything." > Nov. 10, 2007 > > 16. "Looking who things proceed today is no longer what is right > or wrong but one side are you on." > > 17. "Perhaps if you could tell the truth others would not as all the > questions." > > > 18. "Hey Tony will there ever be a time when you can reply in > blain English." , Nov. 12, 2007 > > 19. "No, the holocaust is not about history it is about a Ukrainian > Sausage!" > > 20. "What's now as a cut and con artist you can not supply a honest > posting > showing the time and day including the heating of the posting so I can > check > it out a Google. , > > 21. "Studying the area is alright me questing therefore is studied by > whom." > Nov. 17, 2007 > > 22. "You are calling other that ask questions about the holocaust > despicable. > I suggest you take a very good look at yourself. What you have is false > bride > and nothing else." , Nov. 25, 2007 > > 23. "No Tony the procedure used by you holohoaxers has always be the same. > And this is search and destruct anyone that is in your hollow way." > , Nov. 26, 2007 > > 24. "Makes on wonder how much basic education and coming sense they have. > Or is their brain attached to a chewing gum." > , Dec. 1, 2007 > > 25. "Nanalize the Word all He facts. A brain will tell you what it means." > , Dec. 2007 > > 26. "Oh boy what kind of primitive mentality does he really have. > I sincerely hope his mom and Dad are not proud if it. What the > produced ended up as a vegetable." Dec. 9, > 2007 > > 27. "The coal mine did converted to a brewery. Guess what I was their best > customer making sure now was left half full," > <0RZ6j.11399$iU.8119@pd7urf2no>,, Dec. 9, 2007 > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>>>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. >>> >>> There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and >>> you hate Jews. >>> >>> You're welcome. >>> >>> -- >>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. >>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." >>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org >> >> > > > -- > "In the final analysis, one does not refute a closed system, a total > lie that is not refutable to the extent that its conclusions has > preceded any evidence." (Vidal-Naquet, Pierre. Assassins of Memory, > New York: Columbia University Press. p.81) From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:12 EST 2007 Article: 1234372 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234372 soc.culture.usa:2067273 soc.culture.canada:595313 soc.history.what-if:737942 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197855472 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:37:52 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:37:52 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BT]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:37:52 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... > Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >> In article , >> Sara Salzman wrote: >> >> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >> >>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>> "confession." >>> >>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails he >>> claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>> >>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the law. >>> >>> So there are only two choices here: >>> >>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>> or >>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>> >>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break the >>> law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag that he >>> had broken the law? >>> >>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. Why >>> would anyone believe an admitted liar? >> >> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be BOTH, >> TL. > > True. > > I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he hacked > into my computer. > > And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued the > ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. > > And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went off > into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. > > Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >> >> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in dispute. I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge to break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he hacked your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do you believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any proof that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, apparently a known liar. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:12 EST 2007 Article: 1234373 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234373 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01D5_01C84024.24FA8FA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197855816 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:43:36 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:43:36 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:43:36 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D5_01C84024.24FA8FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?=20 By Dr. E. R. Fields=20 The Holocaust has become the greatest instrument of sympathy which any = nation has ever been able to use to gain support for wars, expansion and = foreign-aid: This has made Israel the world's sixth strongest military = power. The gravest threat to all this wealth and influence is the = growing doubt over the question of whether or not a real holocaust of 6 = million Jews actual took place.=20 NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP=20 The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish = population was 15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the = American Jewish Committee. Nest the Jewish owned New York Times of Feb. = 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to = 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in the addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 = living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so = rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people? With the = rise of Hitler to power there were no more than 4 million Jews at the = most living in areas occupied by the Third Reich at the height of its = power. On June 30, 1965, the West German government announced that some = 3,375,000 Jewish holocaust "survivors" had applied for reparations = money. The Red Cross reported in 1946 that of registered Jewish camp = inmates no more than 300,000 could have died. It is interesting to note = that in the Jews real "bible", The Talmud, it is claimed that 800,000 = Jews were slaughtered by the Romans in Hadrians era. Yet there is no = historical evidence supporting this claim. The Jewish owned New York = Times, in 1945 carried an article by the well known Jewish writer C.L. = Sulzberger. It openly stated Soviet Russia supplied the figure of 4 = million Jews having been put to death "in the gas chambers of = Auschwitz." Thus it was the communists and the Jews who initially = originated these figures which today are accepted as "gospel truth". It = is claimed that from 1934 to 1945 some 50,000 people died in the huge = Bergen-Belsen camp. This count is considered exaggerated, still Time = Magazine reports that of this figure 20,000 died of typhus during the = single month of March, 1945! If nearly half died of this plague in just = one month at the end of the war there is no way Bergen-Belsen could have = been an "extermination camp".=20 HIMMLER-"REDUCE DEATHS AT ALL COSTS"=20 Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Concentration Camps issued orders on Dec. = 28, 1942, that "The death rate in the concentration camps must be = reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, "The Final = Solution.") The camps had been hit with a deadly typhus epidemic that = spread by fleas and body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and = death can quickly follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss = of workers was hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard = Glucks responded to Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will = be used to lower the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document = No. 1523.) On April 10, 1943, Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic = Administration Office of the camps issued a letter stating that persons = with tuberculosis were being sent to the camps resulting in the = "shockingly high mortality figures." (Source: Nuremberg Documents.) = Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl was able to show that the camp death rate = had been reduced from 8.5% in July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The = German SS arrested Buchenwald Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for = mistreating and even executing some prisoners. After an investigation = Koch was found guilty by SS Judge Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this = sound like a policy of "extermination?" With suspicion rapidly rising = about the holocaust claim a committee of Jewish leaders from New York = and Paris met with communist leaders in Warsaw. There they established = the "Committee for the Investigation of War Crimes and War Criminals". = It was after this meeting that the announcement was made that all gas = chambers were located in Poland.=20 THE PROBLEMS OF MASS GASSING=20 In 1945 it was announced that gas death chambers existed in all = concentration camps in Poland, Germany, Austria and Alsace. Some 15 = years later, in 1960, this was revised to the new claim that gas = chambers existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland. Simon = Weisenthal of the Los Angeles Holocaust center states in the paper, = "Books and Bookmen", April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any = camp on German soil." The pressure had been growing since The Vatican, = Red Cross, English Intelligence and German Intelligence chiefs Canaris = and Oster (who collaborated with the British) either did not know or = believe in rumors of gassings.=20 This brings up the following questions. 1) Germans are meticulous record = keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas = chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims. 2) = There have been thousands on investigations of alleged Nazi war = criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of = being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either side = has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed-AND THERE ARE = SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! 3) Photos of bodies at = Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and = malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus. 4) The Vatican and Red = Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the war = about alleged gas chambers. the response was always the same, "The = detainees themselves have not spoken of them." (From the Red Cross = document No. 9925, June 1946.)=20 FORCED CONFESSIONS OF GASSINGS=20 Rudoft Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. captured = by the Soviets they extracted a confession to mass gassings using = Zyclon-B gas. Such "confessions" are about as reliable as any forced by = Stalin from victims tortured before taking the stand to confess during = the Moscow show trials of 1936. The communists wrote the "Confession' = and Hoess signed it. Later he was hanged. An assistant commandant = refused to sign-he died in his cell. Hoess statement read, "half an hour = after having released the gas, they opened the door and started the = ventilation machines. They began immediately to extract the bodies while = eating and smoking." Was Hoess trying to get a message across that there = were no gassing? Zyclon-B is not "ventable". The manufacturers state = Zyclon-B adheres to surface clothing and skin. They say that only after = a 24 hour period, wearing a gas mask with the strongest filter, could = any bodies be removed without killing such workers. If we believe the = Hoess confession that the workers ran into the gas chamber "eating and = smoking" - without gas masks - only minutes after the gassing - IF THIS = OCCURRED ALL WOULD HAVE DIED!=20 GAS STORIES NOT POSSIBLE=20 The Jew Mosche Pearlmann in his book, "The Capture and Trial of Adolph = Eichmann" pages 375 and 385 states Zyclon-B crystals were introduced = >from the ceilings of the gas chambers and "became immediately gaseous." = The American Cyanamid Co. of Linden N.J. states: "We know of no chemical = process whereby HCN (Zyclon-B) may be made to become instantly gaseous = upon exposure to air."=20 CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER=20 Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower = outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that = Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that = anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also = quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page = 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming = stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they = would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth = is that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and fleas = which carry typhus.=20 THE PROBLEM OF THE CREMATORIUMS=20 At the Auschwitz I camp there were only 6 crematory ovens. At the = hospital in Auschwitz II there are 46 single cremators. In the Lubin = camp there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these three camps 3 to 4 million = Jews were supposed to have been exterminated and their bodies cremated. = Also, these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' doors and a = time period of from 4 to 6 hours burning for each body using a large = amount of coal. Cremation for those who passed away was used in the = camps to prevent epidemics. Also, no large supplies of coal were ever = stored at the camps for cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears only = in the German edition of William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of = the Third Reich." It seems the Didler-Werke Company, which built the = crematory ovens, sued Shirer who previously wrote that millions of = people were gassed and then burned in this company's ovens. In an = out-of-court settlement of the suit Shirer agreed to add the following = footnote on page 972 of the German edition: "The Didler-Werke have = raised objection to the name of their firm appearing in the chapter = concerning the extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor of = engineering in a statement of Aug. 1961 established that the = measurements are those which are standard for a crematory oven of not = very modern design intended for small cemeteries and would be unsuitable = for mass burning." WHY IS THIS DELETED FROM THE ENGLISH EDITION??? On = the question of cremating 6,000,000 people - this would leave 15,000 = tons of ashes! Such gigantic piles of ashes created over the short 2 1/2 = year period the holocaust supposedly took place would have been very = difficult to dispose of. No one has ever come forward to report seeing = such huge piles of tons of ashes. It was not until 1960 that the Soviets = opened the Auschwitz camp to tourists and independent investigators. No = gas chamber could be found. The official answer was that it was "taken = to another camp for gassings and then later went into oblivion!"=20 WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST=20 Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, eminent historian, author of 40 books, many = standard college texts, noted in Rampart Journal, 1967. "It has been = demonstrated that there had been no systematic extermination in those = camps." Thies Christopherden, a German soldier and author: "I was at = Auschwitz! There was no gas chamber there." Paul Rassiner, historian and = anti-Nazi activist, who served a prison sentence in Buchenwald and the = Dora camps stated in 1962. "The claim that a holocaust took place is an = historic lie - the most tragic and most macabre imposture of all time." = Prof. Robert Faurisson, a specialist in Document Analysis at the = University of Lyon. France, stated on April 25, 1979. "The holocaust = lie, which is largely of Zionist origin, has made an enormous political = and financial fraud possible, whose principal beneficiary is the state = of Israel."=20 WHY THE HOLOCAUST CAMPAIGN=20 Hardly a week goes by when there are not stories in the press, on = TV-News or movies about the alleged holocaust. What is the long range = design for this constant attempt to fill Germans and indeed all = Christians with a feeling of guilt over a holocaust which never = occurred? Bernard Postal wrote in the Jewish Week, July 14, 1979, "Not = until after the holocaust, did anti-Semitism become taboo. There was a = time when anti-Semitic speeches were an open factor in national = campaigns. The holocaust put a taboo on overt anti- Semitism among = upper-level statesmen and publicists." S.E.D. Brown of South Africa, a = noted journalist writes, "The holocaust instills a guilt complex in = those said to be guilty and spreads the demoralization, degeneration, = and eventually the destruction of the natural racial elite among a = people. This transfers effective political control to the lowest = elements who will cowtow to the Jews." Zionist spokesmen often boast of: = "The shattering effect of the holocaust on the Christian conscience = resulting in a feeling of collective indebtedness to the Jews." Massive = unending U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel in made possible because anyone who = dares to oppose these outrageous giveaways is condemned as being = "anti-Semitic" and "insensitive" to holocaust victims. The Jews hold an = unnatural violent hatred for the German people. Jews seek to turn all = other peoples of the world against the Germans and keep that nation = divided for all time to come. That is why no peace treaty has ever been = signed as yet with Germany and they still live under Allied military = occupation laws.=20 A QUESTION OF FUND RAISING=20 The Wall Street Journal quotes Jewish professional fund-raising = consultant firm of Milton Goldin Co., as saying the main theme of Jewish = fund-raising is the holocaust and has been for 38 years. When they don't = use the holocaust the money collection sharply drops off. Thus the more = the Press, TV and Hollywood promotes the holocaust the more money the = United Jewish Appeal and other Zionist funds can extract from gullible = people.=20 HOLOCAUST SILENCES OPPOSITION=20 Jewish leaders have discovered that by repeating holocaust stories over = and over again they can instill a guilt complex within all Gentiles. = This effectively silences most critics of Zionist political goals.=20 WHAT ABOUT REAL HOLOCAUSTS?=20 Why doesn't the press, TV and film industry give massive media attention = to real victims to proven holocausts of Gentiles in recent history.=20 THE SOVIET-BOLSHEVIK HOLOCAUST OF CHRISTIANS:=20 RUSSIAN KULAK FARMERS (1928-1930) 15 million exterminated. UKRANIAN = FARMERS (1930-1933) 7 Million exterminated. RUSSIAN POLITICAL PRISONERS = (1919-1949) 12 million exterminated. Total peoples murdered by Lenin and = Stalin. 34 million. CAMBODIAN extermination 1975 2.5 million. ARMENIAN = extermination by the Turks, 1915, 1.5 million.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_01D5_01C84024.24FA8FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

WAS THERE REALLY A = HOLOCAUST?=20

By Dr. E. R. Fields =

The Holocaust has = become the=20 greatest instrument of sympathy which any nation has ever been able to = use to=20 gain support for wars, expansion and foreign-aid: This has made Israel = the=20 world's sixth strongest military power. The gravest threat to all this = wealth=20 and influence is the growing doubt over the question of whether or not a = real=20 holocaust of 6 million Jews actual took place.

NUMBERS OF VICTIMS = DON'T ADD UP=20

The World Almanac for = 1947 states=20 that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The = Almanacs=20 figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Nest the Jewish = owned=20 New York Times of Feb. 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for = that year=20 amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in the addition to the 600,000 to = 700,000=20 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so = rapidly over=20 the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people? With the rise of Hitler = to=20 power there were no more than 4 million Jews at the most living in areas = occupied by the Third Reich at the height of its power. On June 30, = 1965, the=20 West German government announced that some 3,375,000 Jewish holocaust=20 "survivors" had applied for reparations money. The Red Cross reported in = 1946=20 that of registered Jewish camp inmates no more than 300,000 could have = died. It=20 is interesting to note that in the Jews real "bible", The Talmud, it is = claimed=20 that 800,000 Jews were slaughtered by the Romans in Hadrians era. Yet = there is=20 no historical evidence supporting this claim. The Jewish owned New York = Times,=20 in 1945 carried an article by the well known Jewish writer C.L. = Sulzberger. It=20 openly stated Soviet Russia supplied the figure of 4 million Jews having = been=20 put to death "in the gas chambers of Auschwitz." Thus it was the = communists and=20 the Jews who initially originated these figures which today are accepted = as=20 "gospel truth". It is claimed that from 1934 to 1945 some 50,000 people = died in=20 the huge Bergen-Belsen camp. This count is considered exaggerated, still = Time=20 Magazine reports that of this figure 20,000 died of typhus during the = single=20 month of March, 1945! If nearly half died of this plague in just one = month at=20 the end of the war there is no way Bergen-Belsen could have been an=20 "extermination camp".

HIMMLER-"REDUCE DEATHS = AT ALL=20 COSTS"

Heinrich Himmler, chief = of the=20 Concentration Camps issued orders on Dec. 28, 1942, that "The death rate = in the=20 concentration camps must be reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's = book,=20 "The Final Solution.") The camps had been hit with a deadly typhus = epidemic that=20 spread by fleas and body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and = death=20 can quickly follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss of = workers was=20 hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks responded = to=20 Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will be used to lower the = death=20 rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document No. 1523.) On April 10, = 1943,=20 Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic Administration Office of the camps = issued a=20 letter stating that persons with tuberculosis were being sent to the = camps=20 resulting in the "shockingly high mortality figures." (Source: Nuremberg = Documents.) Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl was able to show that the camp = death=20 rate had been reduced from 8.5% in July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The = German=20 SS arrested Buchenwald Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for mistreating and = even=20 executing some prisoners. After an investigation Koch was found guilty = by SS=20 Judge Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this sound like a policy of = "extermination?"=20 With suspicion rapidly rising about the holocaust claim a committee of = Jewish=20 leaders from New York and Paris met with communist leaders in Warsaw. = There they=20 established the "Committee for the Investigation of War Crimes and War=20 Criminals". It was after this meeting that the announcement was made = that all=20 gas chambers were located in Poland.

THE PROBLEMS OF MASS = GASSING=20

In 1945 it was = announced that gas=20 death chambers existed in all concentration camps in Poland, Germany, = Austria=20 and Alsace. Some 15 years later, in 1960, this was revised to the new = claim that=20 gas chambers existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland. Simon=20 Weisenthal of the Los Angeles Holocaust center states in the paper, = "Books and=20 Bookmen", April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any camp on = German=20 soil." The pressure had been growing since The Vatican, Red Cross, = English=20 Intelligence and German Intelligence chiefs Canaris and Oster (who = collaborated=20 with the British) either did not know or believe in rumors of gassings.=20

This brings up the = following=20 questions. 1) Germans are meticulous record keepers but there is not one = order=20 for the construction of any gas chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any = gas=20 chamber or gassed victims. 2) There have been thousands on = investigations of=20 alleged Nazi war criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was = ever=20 accused of being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on = either=20 side has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed-AND THERE ARE = SUPPOSED=20 TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! 3) Photos of bodies at Dachau = and Belsen=20 camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and malnutrition. Many Germans = also=20 died from typhus. 4) The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of = freed=20 camp inmates at the end of the war about alleged gas chambers. the = response was=20 always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them." = (From the=20 Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946.)

FORCED CONFESSIONS OF = GASSINGS=20

Rudoft Hoess was the = commandant=20 of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. captured by the Soviets they extracted a = confession to mass gassings using Zyclon-B gas. Such "confessions" are = about as=20 reliable as any forced by Stalin from victims tortured before taking the = stand=20 to confess during the Moscow show trials of 1936. The communists wrote = the=20 "Confession' and Hoess signed it. Later he was hanged. An assistant = commandant=20 refused to sign-he died in his cell. Hoess statement read, "half an hour = after=20 having released the gas, they opened the door and started the = ventilation=20 machines. They began immediately to extract the bodies while eating and=20 smoking." Was Hoess trying to get a message across that there were no = gassing?=20 Zyclon-B is not "ventable". The manufacturers state Zyclon-B adheres to = surface=20 clothing and skin. They say that only after a 24 hour period, wearing a = gas mask=20 with the strongest filter, could any bodies be removed without killing = such=20 workers. If we believe the Hoess confession that the workers ran into = the gas=20 chamber "eating and smoking" - without gas masks - only minutes after = the=20 gassing - IF THIS OCCURRED ALL WOULD HAVE DIED!

GAS STORIES NOT = POSSIBLE=20

The Jew Mosche = Pearlmann in his=20 book, "The Capture and Trial of Adolph Eichmann" pages 375 and 385 = states=20 Zyclon-B crystals were introduced from the ceilings of the gas chambers = and=20 "became immediately gaseous." The American Cyanamid Co. of Linden N.J. = states:=20 "We know of no chemical process whereby HCN (Zyclon-B) may be made to = become=20 instantly gaseous upon exposure to air."

CLAIMS OF WILLIAM = SHIRER=20

Shirer claims the gas = was=20 released from overhead through fake shower outlets, (page 970) and = quickly=20 killed its victims. The truth is that Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air = and would=20 rise to the ceiling so that anyone throwing themselves to the floor = would be=20 saved. Shirer also quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess = as=20 stating (page 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their = screaming=20 stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they = would die=20 instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth is that = Zyclon-B=20 was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and fleas which carry = typhus.=20

THE PROBLEM OF THE = CREMATORIUMS=20

At the Auschwitz I camp = there=20 were only 6 crematory ovens. At the hospital in Auschwitz II there are = 46 single=20 cremators. In the Lubin camp there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these = three camps=20 3 to 4 million Jews were supposed to have been exterminated and their = bodies=20 cremated. Also, these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' = doors and a=20 time period of from 4 to 6 hours burning for each body using a large = amount of=20 coal. Cremation for those who passed away was used in the camps to = prevent=20 epidemics. Also, no large supplies of coal were ever stored at the camps = for=20 cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears only in the German edition = of=20 William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." It = seems the=20 Didler-Werke Company, which built the crematory ovens, sued Shirer who=20 previously wrote that millions of people were gassed and then burned in = this=20 company's ovens. In an out-of-court settlement of the suit Shirer agreed = to add=20 the following footnote on page 972 of the German edition: "The = Didler-Werke have=20 raised objection to the name of their firm appearing in the chapter = concerning=20 the extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor of engineering in a = statement of Aug. 1961 established that the measurements are those which = are=20 standard for a crematory oven of not very modern design intended for = small=20 cemeteries and would be unsuitable for mass burning." WHY IS THIS = DELETED FROM=20 THE ENGLISH EDITION??? On the question of cremating 6,000,000 people - = this=20 would leave 15,000 tons of ashes! Such gigantic piles of ashes created = over the=20 short 2 1/2 year period the holocaust supposedly took place would have = been very=20 difficult to dispose of. No one has ever come forward to report seeing = such huge=20 piles of tons of ashes. It was not until 1960 that the Soviets opened = the=20 Auschwitz camp to tourists and independent investigators. No gas chamber = could=20 be found. The official answer was that it was "taken to another camp for = gassings and then later went into oblivion!"

WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT = THE=20 HOLOCAUST

Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, = eminent=20 historian, author of 40 books, many standard college texts, noted in = Rampart=20 Journal, 1967. "It has been demonstrated that there had been no = systematic=20 extermination in those camps." Thies Christopherden, a German soldier = and=20 author: "I was at Auschwitz! There was no gas chamber there." Paul = Rassiner,=20 historian and anti-Nazi activist, who served a prison sentence in = Buchenwald and=20 the Dora camps stated in 1962. "The claim that a holocaust took place is = an=20 historic lie - the most tragic and most macabre imposture of all time." = Prof.=20 Robert Faurisson, a specialist in Document Analysis at the University of = Lyon.=20 France, stated on April 25, 1979. "The holocaust lie, which is largely = of=20 Zionist origin, has made an enormous political and financial fraud = possible,=20 whose principal beneficiary is the state of Israel."

WHY THE HOLOCAUST = CAMPAIGN=20

Hardly a week goes by = when there=20 are not stories in the press, on TV-News or movies about the alleged = holocaust.=20 What is the long range design for this constant attempt to fill Germans = and=20 indeed all Christians with a feeling of guilt over a holocaust which = never=20 occurred? Bernard Postal wrote in the Jewish Week, July 14, 1979, "Not = until=20 after the holocaust, did anti-Semitism become taboo. There was a time = when=20 anti-Semitic speeches were an open factor in national campaigns. The = holocaust=20 put a taboo on overt anti- Semitism among upper-level statesmen and = publicists."=20 S.E.D. Brown of South Africa, a noted journalist writes, "The holocaust = instills=20 a guilt complex in those said to be guilty and spreads the = demoralization,=20 degeneration, and eventually the destruction of the natural racial elite = among a=20 people. This transfers effective political control to the lowest = elements who=20 will cowtow to the Jews." Zionist spokesmen often boast of: "The = shattering=20 effect of the holocaust on the Christian conscience resulting in a = feeling of=20 collective indebtedness to the Jews." Massive unending U.S. Foreign Aid = to=20 Israel in made possible because anyone who dares to oppose these = outrageous=20 giveaways is condemned as being "anti-Semitic" and "insensitive" to = holocaust=20 victims. The Jews hold an unnatural violent hatred for the German = people. Jews=20 seek to turn all other peoples of the world against the Germans and keep = that=20 nation divided for all time to come. That is why no peace treaty has = ever been=20 signed as yet with Germany and they still live under Allied military = occupation=20 laws.

A QUESTION OF FUND = RAISING=20

The Wall Street Journal = quotes=20 Jewish professional fund-raising consultant firm of Milton Goldin Co., = as saying=20 the main theme of Jewish fund-raising is the holocaust and has been for = 38=20 years. When they don't use the holocaust the money collection sharply = drops off.=20 Thus the more the Press, TV and Hollywood promotes the holocaust the = more money=20 the United Jewish Appeal and other Zionist funds can extract from = gullible=20 people.

HOLOCAUST SILENCES = OPPOSITION=20

Jewish leaders have = discovered=20 that by repeating holocaust stories over and over again they can instill = a guilt=20 complex within all Gentiles. This effectively silences most critics of = Zionist=20 political goals.

WHAT ABOUT REAL = HOLOCAUSTS?=20

Why doesn't the press, = TV and=20 film industry give massive media attention to real victims to proven = holocausts=20 of Gentiles in recent history.

THE SOVIET-BOLSHEVIK = HOLOCAUST OF=20 CHRISTIANS:

RUSSIAN KULAK FARMERS = (1928-1930)=20 15 million exterminated. UKRANIAN FARMERS (1930-1933) 7 Million = exterminated.=20 RUSSIAN POLITICAL PRISONERS (1919-1949) 12 million exterminated. Total = peoples=20 murdered by Lenin and Stalin. 34 million. CAMBODIAN extermination 1975 = 2.5=20 million. ARMENIAN extermination by the Turks, 1915, 1.5 million.=20

------=_NextPart_000_01D5_01C84024.24FA8FA0-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:14 EST 2007 Article: 1234376 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234376 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust Jew accused of war crimes Lines: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E9_01C84025.BE089420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197856495 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:54:55 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:54:55 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:54:55 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01E9_01C84025.BE089420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Holocaust Jew accused of war crimes By Allan Hall=20 Age Correspondent=20 Berlin July 11, 2005 An old Jewish man who took his own cold-blooded revenge against Germans = for the Holocaust will not be extradited back to Poland from Israel to = answer charges of genocide. The case of Solomon Morel, 86, is the only one in Holocaust history = where a Jew stands accused of war crimes against Germans. It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide is = genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see = rough justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to = be responsible. Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent back = to stand trial in Poland under any circumstances. Mr Morel, who came from the little Polish town of Grabowo, claims he was = an Auschwitz survivor whose family was murdered by the Nazis during = World War II. A book, An Eye for an Eye, which documents his strange = life, claims his family was indeed liquidated, but by Poles who = collaborated with the Nazis. It also says that he was never imprisoned = by the Germans. By 1943 he was employed peeling potatoes for a Jewish partisan brigade = before escaping to the Soviet Union, where he trained in the gruesome = interrogation methods of the NKVD, Stalin's political police, before = returning to Poland in 1945. He was then put in charge by the communists = of a camp containing thousands of German prisoners including SS men, = soldiers and civilians. John Sack, the Jewish-American author of An Eye for an Eye, claims Mr = Morel, as commandant of Swietochlowice Camp, morphed into the kind of = monster that would have been welcomed by the Gestapo. "His favourite method of killing prisoners was hacking the skull of his = victims with a wooden leg of a chair," according to the book. "It is = quite possible that in Swietochlowice several thousand persons were = murdered by Morel and his men." Sack's book, and a score of Polish books and newspaper articles, said he = beat, shot, starved, tortured and killed with gusto in the camp. "I knew Morel in the camp. He was a very brutal man," survivor Dorota = Boriczek said. "He was young then. He would come in at night. We could = hear the cries of the men then. They would beat them and throw the = bodies out of the window." In 1989, a Polish reporter found Mr Morel living in a part of Katowice = assigned for former uniformed functionaries of communist terror. In the early 1990s, the Main Commission for the Investigations of Crimes = Against the Polish Nation started an official investigation of Mr = Morel's activities in the Swietochlowice Camp after witness articles = appeared in the press. In 1994, Mr Morel sought political asylum in Sweden. This was refused. = He then successfully sought sanctuary in Israel. Poland tried to extradite him seven years ago on torture charges. Israel = refused. So prosecutors began preparing a genocide case, for which there = is no statute of limitations. Last week, they received a blank refusal from Israel saying "there was = no basis whatsoever" to extradite Mr Morel. A Polish prosecutor said testimony from former inmates documented Mr = Morel's torture of at least 13 prisoners. "There should be one measure for judging war criminals, irrespective = whether they are German, Israeli, or any other nationality," the = prosecutor said. ------=_NextPart_000_01E9_01C84025.BE089420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Holocaust Jew accused of war crimes

By Allan Hall
Age Correspondent=20
Berlin

July 11, = 2005

 

An old Jewish man who took his own cold-blooded revenge against = Germans for=20 the Holocaust will not be extradited back to Poland from Israel to = answer=20 charges of genocide.

The case of Solomon Morel, 86, is the only one in Holocaust history = where a=20 Jew stands accused of war crimes against Germans.

It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide = is=20 genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see = rough=20 justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to be=20 responsible.

Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent = back to=20 stand trial in Poland under any circumstances.

Mr Morel, who came from the little Polish town of Grabowo, claims he = was an=20 Auschwitz survivor whose family was murdered by the Nazis during World = War II. A=20 book, An Eye for an Eye, which documents his strange life, = claims his=20 family was indeed liquidated, but by Poles who collaborated with the = Nazis. It=20 also says that he was never imprisoned by the Germans.

 

By 1943 he was employed peeling potatoes for a Jewish partisan = brigade before=20 escaping to the Soviet Union, where he trained in the gruesome = interrogation=20 methods of the NKVD, Stalin's political police, before returning to = Poland in=20 1945. He was then put in charge by the communists of a camp containing = thousands=20 of German prisoners including SS men, soldiers and civilians.

John Sack, the Jewish-American author of An Eye for an Eye, = claims=20 Mr Morel, as commandant of Swietochlowice Camp, morphed into the kind of = monster=20 that would have been welcomed by the Gestapo.

"His favourite method of killing prisoners was hacking the skull of = his=20 victims with a wooden leg of a chair," according to the book. "It is = quite=20 possible that in Swietochlowice several thousand persons were murdered = by Morel=20 and his men."

 

Sack's book, and a score of Polish books and newspaper articles, said = he=20 beat, shot, starved, tortured and killed with gusto in the camp.

"I knew Morel in the camp. He was a very brutal man," survivor Dorota = Boriczek said. "He was young then. He would come in at night. We could = hear the=20 cries of the men then. They would beat them and throw the bodies out of = the=20 window."

In 1989, a Polish reporter found Mr Morel living in a part of = Katowice=20 assigned for former uniformed functionaries of communist terror.

In the early 1990s, the Main Commission for the Investigations of = Crimes=20 Against the Polish Nation started an official investigation of Mr = Morel's=20 activities in the Swietochlowice Camp after witness articles appeared in = the=20 press.

In 1994, Mr Morel sought political asylum in Sweden. This was = refused. He=20 then successfully sought sanctuary in Israel.

Poland tried to extradite him seven years ago on torture charges. = Israel=20 refused. So prosecutors began preparing a genocide case, for which there = is no=20 statute of limitations.

Last week, they received a blank refusal from Israel saying "there = was no=20 basis whatsoever" to extradite Mr Morel.

A Polish prosecutor said testimony from former inmates documented Mr = Morel's=20 torture of at least 13 prisoners.

"There should be one measure for judging war criminals, irrespective = whether=20 they are German, Israeli, or any other nationality," the prosecutor=20 said.

------=_NextPart_000_01E9_01C84025.BE089420-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:15 EST 2007 Article: 1234377 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234377 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Polish holocaust victims denied compensation in class action against Swiss Banks Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C84026.3E8ECCE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197856710 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:58:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:58:30 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:58:30 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C84026.3E8ECCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Polish holocaust victims denied compensation in class action against = Swiss Banks Los Angeles - The following is issued by the Polish American Defence = Committee in California:=20 On Friday, an appellate court ruled against Polish victims of Nazi = persecution who sought to participate in the $1.25 billion class action = against Swiss Banks. The banks profited from Nazi war crimes. The = Germans killed about 3 million Poles, mostly Catholics, and over a = million were forced into slave labour. The Nazi plunder of Poland = exceeded that of any other country.=20 In August 1998, the Swiss banks agreed to pay $1.25 billion to all = victims similarly situated, including Poles. In the January 1999 final = settlement agreement, however, the victims of Nazi persecution were = defined as those who were Jewish, Romani (Gypsy), Jehovah's Witness, = homosexual, or physically or mentally disabled or handicapped.=20 In February 1999, the Polish American Defence Committee (PADC), in Los = Angeles, wrote a letter to the judge, pointing out that omitting the = Poles was historically wrong and a grave injustice. The judge and the = attorneys for the settlement class ignored the PADC until October 1999, = when the PADC filed a motion to intervene. The class attorneys opposed = the motion, although some of the same lawyers also represented the = Polish government and Polish slave labourers against German companies. = The judge, Edward Korman of the federal district court in Brooklyn, = denied the motion on the ground that, if the Poles were included, each = victim would get only pennies. He urged the Poles to file a separate = class action against the banks.=20 Yesterday the federal court of appeals upheld Judge Korman's decision, = stating, "intervention at this late stage would prejudice the existing = parties by destroying their Settlement and sending them back to the = drawing board."=20 Ted Polak, Chairman of the PADC, said, "a separate class action by Poles = will take years. Polish survivors are dying every day. There is no = rational basis for discriminating against the Poles. The Swiss banks = didn't distinguish gold extracted from the teeth of Polish victims. We = expect the Polish government and all Poles will join to vindicate = history and justice."=20 ------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C84026.3E8ECCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Polish holocaust victims denied compensation in = class=20 action against Swiss Banks

Los Angeles - The following is issued by the Polish American Defence=20 Committee in California:

On Friday, an appellate court ruled against Polish victims of Nazi=20 persecution who sought to participate in the $1.25 billion class action = against=20 Swiss Banks. The banks profited from Nazi war crimes. The Germans killed = about 3=20 million Poles, mostly Catholics, and over a million were forced into = slave=20 labour. The Nazi plunder of Poland exceeded that of any other country. =

In August 1998, the Swiss banks agreed to pay $1.25 billion to all = victims=20 similarly situated, including Poles. In the January 1999 final = settlement=20 agreement, however, the victims of Nazi persecution were defined as = those who=20 were Jewish, Romani (Gypsy), Jehovah's Witness, homosexual, or = physically or=20 mentally disabled or handicapped.

In February 1999, the Polish American Defence Committee (PADC), in = Los=20 Angeles, wrote a letter to the judge, pointing out that omitting the = Poles was=20 historically wrong and a grave injustice. The judge and the attorneys = for the=20 settlement class ignored the PADC until October 1999, when the PADC = filed a=20 motion to intervene. The class attorneys opposed the motion, although = some of=20 the same lawyers also represented the Polish government and Polish slave = labourers against German companies. The judge, Edward Korman of the = federal=20 district court in Brooklyn, denied the motion on the ground that, if the = Poles=20 were included, each victim would get only pennies. He urged the Poles to = file a=20 separate class action against the banks.

Yesterday the federal court of appeals upheld Judge Korman's = decision,=20 stating, "intervention at this late stage would prejudice the existing = parties=20 by destroying their Settlement and sending them back to the drawing = board."

Ted Polak, Chairman of the PADC, said, "a separate class action by = Poles will=20 take years. Polish survivors are dying every day. There is no rational = basis for=20 discriminating against the Poles. The Swiss banks didn't distinguish = gold=20 extracted from the teeth of Polish victims. We expect the Polish = government and=20 all Poles will join to vindicate history and justice."=20

------=_NextPart_000_01F2_01C84026.3E8ECCE0-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:15 EST 2007 Article: 1234379 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234379 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Stalin's Polish victims discovered in 'Holocaust' grave Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01FB_01C84026.82126E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_Kk9j.31779$JD.12207@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197856826 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:00:26 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:00:26 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:00:26 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01FB_01C84026.82126E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IT WASN'T THE 'NAZIS' Stalin's Polish victims discovered in 'Holocaust' grave Mass Grave of Massacred Poles Found in Ukraine bY HALYNA PASTUSUK Radio Polonia Saturday, 12 August 2006 KYIV - A Ukrainian government commission has concluded that thousands of = people buried in a mass grave outside Kiev were killed during Stalin's = purges,* not by Nazi soldiers. The commission's conclusion supports the testimony of elderly witnesses = in the nearby village of Bykovnia, who said they saw trucks dripping blood en = route to the site in the 1930's, before the Nazis occupied the area. Unofficial estimates put the number of bodies in the grave at 200,000 to = 300,000. Villagers in Bykovnia broke five decades of silence to accuse Stalin's = secret police after the Ukrainian government erected a monument in May 1988 blaming = Nazi occupiers for the crime. The villagers in December forced Ukrainian = authorities to establish the commission, saying three previous investigations had = covered up the truth by blaming Nazi troops. Dr. Slawomir Kalbarczyk, Chief Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes = against the Polish Nation, said during the international scientific conference = "Archeology and Terror" conference that took place in Tallinn in November 2005: It is worth mentioning that the Bykovnia pits did not say their "last = word" and may provide still a lot of valuable information, since the Ukrainian = authorities plan to carry out further exhumations there. They were to be conducted in August = last year, however were postponed til this year. The National Remembrance = Institute's prosecutors have been invited in the capacity of observers. There were found in Bykovnia numerous objects, belonging undoubtedly to = the Polish citizens, among others, the uniforms, military caps, knee-boots, = Polish coins (including their issue of 1939), and also the objects manufactured in = Poland or in the Western Europe. Unfortunately, all those things were separated from the corpses, so they = could not be attributed to any concrete persons. One thing is however of a crucial = value: "It is a driver's license belonging to the person who appears on a = partial list of the executed civilians, drawn up by the NKVD (those who were murdered in = Ukraine). Besides, the Ukrainian soil conceals more secrets. In 1997, the = Ukrainian authorities carried out exhumations in the neighborhood of the former NKVD prison in = Vladimir in Volhynien in order to check information disclosed by the local = population on burial of Stalin's regime victims at that place. From death-pits there were = excavated the remains of 100 persons, whose skulls had bullet holes in their rear = part. With the corpses there were many items of the Polish origin: shoulder = boards of the Polish military men and policemen, uniform buttons with the image of the = White Eagle, etc. Just recently, the Institute of National Remembrance has been = informed that one of the investigations, conducted by the Military Prosecutor=E2?Ts = Office in Ukraine brought to discovery in Kiev of the remains of 270 unidentified Polish = officers. In cooperation with the Ukrainian party Poles will do their very best to = explain this gloomy atrocity which, supposedly, may have a certain link with the = Katyn Crime. Such assumptions are justified as a trace of the prisoners murdered in = Ukraine breaks off, among others, in the Kiev prison. http://www.polskieradio.pl/polonia/a...?tId=3D40422&j=3D2 ------=_NextPart_000_01FB_01C84026.82126E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 IT WASN'T THE 'NAZIS'

Stalin's Polish = victims
discovered in=20 'Holocaust' grave

Mass Grave of Massacred Poles Found in=20 Ukraine


bY HALYNA PASTUSUK
Radio Polonia Saturday, 12 = August=20 2006

KYIV =97 A Ukrainian government commission has concluded = that=20 thousands of people buried in a mass grave outside Kiev were killed = during=20 Stalin's purges,*
not by Nazi soldiers.

The commission's = conclusion=20 supports the testimony of elderly witnesses in the
nearby village of=20 Bykovnia, who said they saw trucks dripping blood en route
to the = site in the=20 1930's, before the Nazis occupied the area.


Unofficial = estimates put=20 the number of bodies in the grave at 200,000 to = 300,000.

Villagers in=20 Bykovnia broke five decades of silence to accuse Stalin's secret = police
after=20 the Ukrainian government erected a monument in May 1988 blaming=20 Nazi
occupiers for the crime. The villagers in December forced = Ukrainian=20 authorities to
establish the commission, saying three previous = investigations=20 had covered up
the truth by blaming Nazi troops.

Dr. Slawomir=20 Kalbarczyk, Chief Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes = against
the Polish=20 Nation, said during the international scientific conference = "Archeology
and=20 Terror" conference that took place in Tallinn in November = 2005:

It is=20 worth mentioning that the Bykovnia pits did not say their "last word" = and=20 may
provide still a lot of valuable information, since the Ukrainian=20 authorities plan to
carry out further exhumations there. They were to = be=20 conducted in August last
year, however were postponed til this year. = The=20 National Remembrance Institute's
prosecutors have been invited in the = capacity of observers.

There were found in Bykovnia numerous = objects,=20 belonging undoubtedly to the
Polish citizens, among others, the = uniforms,=20 military caps, knee-boots, Polish coins
(including their issue of = 1939), and=20 also the objects manufactured in Poland or in
the Western=20 Europe.

Unfortunately, all those things were separated from the = corpses,=20 so they could not
be attributed to any concrete persons. One thing is = however=20 of a crucial value:
=93It is a driver's license belonging to the = person who=20 appears on a partial list of the
executed civilians, drawn up by the = NKVD=20 (those who were murdered in Ukraine).

Besides, the Ukrainian soil = conceals more secrets. In 1997, the Ukrainian authorities
carried out = exhumations in the neighborhood of the former NKVD prison in = Vladimir
in=20 Volhynien in order to check information disclosed by the local = population on=20 burial
of Stalin's regime victims at that place. From death-pits = there were=20 excavated the
remains of 100 persons, whose skulls had bullet holes = in their=20 rear part.

With the corpses there were many items of the Polish = origin:=20 shoulder boards of the
Polish military men and policemen, uniform = buttons=20 with the image of the White Eagle,
etc. Just recently, the Institute = of=20 National Remembrance has been informed that
one of the = investigations,=20 conducted by the Military Prosecutor=E2=80=99s Office in = Ukraine
brought to=20 discovery in Kiev of the remains of 270 unidentified Polish = officers.

In=20 cooperation with the Ukrainian party Poles will do their very best to = explain=20 this
gloomy atrocity which, supposedly, may have a certain link with = the=20 Katyn Crime.
Such assumptions are justified as a trace of the = prisoners=20 murdered in Ukraine breaks
off, among others, in the Kiev=20 prison.

http://www.polskieradio.pl/polonia/a...?tId=3D40422&j=3D= 2
------=_NextPart_000_01FB_01C84026.82126E40-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:16 EST 2007 Article: 1234381 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234381 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: "Who Is Reaping Benefits from the Holocaust?" Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0204_01C84026.AB943190" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <8Mk9j.31780$JD.23370@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197856900 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:01:40 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:01:40 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:01:40 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01C84026.AB943190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 "Who Is Reaping Benefits from the Holocaust?" Rzeczpospolita April = 26, 2000 by Krzysztof Darewicz in New York Interview with Dr. Norman G. Finkelstein, lecturer in political = sciences and theory of international relations at NYU and Hunter College What made you study the issue of compensations for Holocaust = victims? [Finkelstein] My parents' life story. My father, who managed to = survive the Warsaw ghetto and the Auschwitz concentration camp, obtained = compensation from the Germans because he was seriously harmed during the = war.At the end of his life it amounted to $600 a month. As for my = mother, who survived the ghetto and Majdanek, the Germans would not = grant her compensation because she had no visible injuries. She only = received a symbolic compensation of about $3,000. My mother kept = wondering who was receiving money from Germany totaling $118 billion to = Jewish Holocaust survivors. In principle, no one deserved higher = compensation than my parents,persecuted throughout the war and having = lost their entire family and personal assets. The other reason I decided to study compensation were Daniel = Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners" and Peter Novick's = "Holocaust in American Life." I was asked to review these works and, = after some historical research, I decided to write a book on it myself. = It will be entitled "The Holocaust History: The Abuse of Jewish = Victims." [Darewicz] What conclusions have you drawn from your studies? [Finkelstein] First I analyzed the negotiations and the agreement = signed in 1952 by the German government and the Jewish Claims Conference = (JCC). Under this agreement the Germans paid the JCC about $1 billion in = compensation for people like my mother who did not qualify to receive = compensation. It turns out that the JCC either kept most of the money = for itself or parcelled it out according to its whim. Some of the money = was earmarked to suport Jewish communities in Arab countries, some for = the Yad Vashem Institute in Jerusalem and for other museums -- or for = purposes unrelated to compensations for victims. [Darewicz] How much money was actually paid out to victims, then? [Finkelstein]Ultimately, only about 15% of that $1 billion. It = should be added that the JCC parcelled out even this portion among = "prominent Jewish leaders of the World War II and rabbis," and actually = among its activists. Ordinary victims only received a small fraction of = that sum. Then I examined closely the issue of the Swiss bank accounts = that had to pay compensations for Jewish losses in savings.Interestingly = enough, the deposits which Jews made prior to the war in Swiss banks = were not higher than deposits made in US banks. Logically, the JCC, an = agency of the U.S.-based World Jewish Congress (WJC) should have first = demanded compensations from US banks. Meanwhile, the only target were = the Swiss. First to demand compensations were the WJC and the JCC. Then = US lawyers filed class action suits against Swiss banks. And then they = were joined by New York financial auditor Alan Havesi, a highly = influential figure in the financial world, who threatened economic = sanctions against Switzerland. This spawned congressional hearings in = the banking commissions of both the House and the Senate. Finally, = Deputy Secretary of State Stuart Eizenstat appeared on the battlefield = representing the authority of US government. Under duress the Swiss swiftly agreed to have the accounts audited = and as early as February 1996 assured all that they would pay = compensations to every owner of the account or their heirs. However, the = WJC opposed this deal. If it went along, the money would only have gone = to victims and the WJC with its lawyers would get nothing. That is exactly what this is all about. The WJC and the JCC demand = compensations on behalf of Holocaust victims, but take the money for = themselves. In August 1998, the WJC and lawyers forced Swiss banks to = sign a settlement which obliged banks to pay $1.25 billion in = compensation. To date--April 2000--not a penny went to a single victim. = Why? Are they waiting for all the victims to die? When the WJC was = demanding compensation and the Swiss proposed waiting until the results = of the audit were made known, the Jewish side argued there was no time = because Holocaust victims in need were dying off every day. Once the WJC = achieved its goal, the time pressure disappeared. Now the WJC has plenty = of time because it already has the money. [Darewicz] Do you think that Jewish organizations acted in like = manner during the negotiations with the Germans concerning compensations = for forced labor? [Finkelstein] Yes, I do. The strategy was repeated. In August 1998 = a settlement was reached with Swiss banks, and as soon as September of = the same year, the same lawyers filed class action suits against German = businesses. Once again Alan Havesi turned up; once again hearings held = in Congress and Senate,once again Stuart Eizenstat in the role of = "mediator." I began examining the issue more closely and raised two questions: = "What happened to the money the Germans had paid to victims earlier?" = "How many victims were still alive today? The JCC claimed during the = negotiations that there were still 135,000 former Jewish forced laborers = still alive today. It follows that, at the end of the war in 1945, there = were approximately 600,000, because only a fourth lived for the next 50 = years. Meanwhile, Holocaust historians estimate that in May 1945 there = were 50,000, and certainly not more than 100,000 Jewish survivors who = used to work as slave laborers. How was the 135,000 figue arrived at? = The number of victims was overestimated to get more money. Now the JCC = will put ads in the press asking entitled individuals to collect their = compensation money. Predictably, the number of these people will not = exceed 20,000; in addition, if the JCC rejects some applications for a = variety of reasons, such as incomplete documentation, the actual number = of individuals who will collect the money may reach 10,000. The rest of = the money will remain with the WJC. This is why I believe Jewish = organizations are turning the Holocaust into a lucrative business. I am = firmly opposed it. Neither the Germans nor the Jews ought to make money = off the Holocaust, because this insults the memory and the dignity of = the millions of Jews who were the victims of the annihilation. [Darewicz] Like Jews, Poles also were the victims of the war. = However, recent class action suits were also filed against Poland, which = has been asked to return to Jews the assets lost in the war. [Finkelstein] Poles are next in line. The strategy which had a = trial run in Switzerland and Germany will be used to obtain huge = compensations from Poland under false pretenses. It is to be the "grand = finale." It is to be "grand" because Jewish organizations are going to = demand much more money than they have demanded from any other country. = The Swiss paid the WJC $1.25 billion and, recently, the Germans paid = $1.3 billion in compensations for the work of forced laborers. In the = case of Poland there is already talk of Jewish assets valued at several = dozen billion dollars. This campaign is already under way. Suits have = been filed, congressmen have been writing letters to Polish government, = and, as far as I know, Alan Havesi will visit Poland before soon. A = motion requesting holding congressional hearings has been = submitted.Stuart Eizenstat will once again get into the act, and so on. My mother's father had a tobacco shop in Poland before the war, = and my father's father owned a small sawmill. I do not even know the = names of my grandparents; my parents never spoke about them, and, even = though I am the legal heir, it would never occur to me to demand = restitution of that property. Frankly, my parents hated Poles as much as = Germans, because those were their experiences. I neither condemn nor = condone it. However, I know my parents would never have agreed to have = the current Polish owners of their former estates thrown out under the = aegis of compensation. [Darewicz] What about the Jews who want the return of their former = assets in Poland? Aren't they entitled? [Finkelstein] Of course, the small Jewish community in Poland is = no doubt entitled to some of the former assets of Jewish communities, = synagogues, cemeteries, schools, etc. But all the synagogues, hospitals, = and schools? Are several thousand people entitled to an infrastructure = which once served several million Polish Jews? The chapter on privately = owned assets, except for claims documented beyond any doubt, should be = closed. A huge majority of former owners are already dead anyway, so why = should the WJC and their lawyers have even reason to talk of tens of = billions of dollars when only a handful survived? The Polish authorities should not talk to blackmailers since they = are mostly bluffing and playing a waiting game. If you make one = concession, new claims will surface sooner or later. The Germans already = paid Jews upwards of $100 billion and now they had to pay again. If = Poland makes any concessions, I am sure that after a time, when Poland = gets richer, the WJC will show up again to ask for money. WJC Chairman = Edgar Bronfman has his own jet and claims he needs money for "poor" = victims. Here is what I would say to him: "Mister, your personal assets = exceed $3 billion. Share it with the victims. You would have more than = enough. Leave Poland be."=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01C84026.AB943190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3Dpad=20



"Who Is Reaping=20 Benefits from the Holocaust?" Rzeczpospolita April 26, 2000 by = Krzysztof=20 Darewicz in New York

Interview with Dr. Norman G. = Finkelstein,=20 lecturer in political sciences and theory of international = relations at=20 NYU and Hunter College

What made you study the issue of=20 compensations for Holocaust victims?

[Finkelstein] My = parents' life=20 story. My father, who managed to survive the Warsaw ghetto and the = Auschwitz concentration camp, obtained compensation from the = Germans=20 because he was seriously harmed during the war.At the end of his = life it=20 amounted to $600 a month. As for my mother, who survived the = ghetto and=20 Majdanek, the Germans would not grant her compensation because she = had no=20 visible injuries. She only received a symbolic compensation of = about=20 $3,000. My mother kept wondering who was receiving money from = Germany=20 totaling $118 billion to Jewish Holocaust survivors. In principle, = no one=20 deserved higher compensation than my parents,persecuted throughout = the war=20 and having lost their entire family and personal = assets.

The other=20 reason I decided to study compensation were Daniel Goldhagen's = "Hitler's=20 Willing Executioners" and Peter Novick's "Holocaust in American = Life." I=20 was asked to review these works and, after some historical = research, I=20 decided to write a book on it myself. It will be entitled "The = Holocaust=20 History: The Abuse of Jewish Victims."

[Darewicz] What = conclusions=20 have you drawn from your studies?

[Finkelstein] First I = analyzed=20 the negotiations and the agreement signed in 1952 by the German = government=20 and the Jewish Claims Conference (JCC). Under this agreement the = Germans=20 paid the JCC about $1 billion in compensation for people like my = mother=20 who did not qualify to receive compensation. It turns out that the = JCC=20 either kept most of the money for itself or parcelled it out = according to=20 its whim. Some of the money was earmarked to suport Jewish = communities in=20 Arab countries, some for the Yad Vashem Institute in Jerusalem and = for=20 other museums -- or for purposes unrelated to compensations for=20 victims.

[Darewicz] How much money was actually paid out to = victims, then?

[Finkelstein]Ultimately, only about 15% of = that $1=20 billion. It should be added that the JCC parcelled out even this = portion=20 among "prominent Jewish leaders of the World War II and rabbis," = and=20 actually among its activists. Ordinary victims only received a = small=20 fraction of that sum. Then I examined closely the issue of the = Swiss bank=20 accounts that had to pay compensations for Jewish losses in=20 savings.Interestingly enough, the deposits which Jews made prior = to the=20 war in Swiss banks were not higher than deposits made in US banks. = Logically, the JCC, an agency of the U.S.-based World Jewish = Congress=20 (WJC) should have first demanded compensations from US banks. = Meanwhile,=20 the only target were the Swiss. First to demand compensations were = the WJC=20 and the JCC. Then US lawyers filed class action suits against = Swiss banks.=20 And then they were joined by New York financial auditor Alan = Havesi, a=20 highly influential figure in the financial world, who threatened = economic=20 sanctions against Switzerland. This spawned congressional hearings = in the=20 banking commissions of both the House and the Senate. Finally, = Deputy=20 Secretary of State Stuart Eizenstat appeared on the battlefield=20 representing the authority of US government.

Under duress = the Swiss=20 swiftly agreed to have the accounts audited and as early as = February 1996=20 assured all that they would pay compensations to every owner of = the=20 account or their heirs. However, the WJC opposed this deal. If it = went=20 along, the money would only have gone to victims and the WJC with = its=20 lawyers would get nothing.

That is exactly what this is all = about.=20 The WJC and the JCC demand compensations on behalf of Holocaust = victims,=20 but take the money for themselves. In August 1998, the WJC and = lawyers=20 forced Swiss banks to sign a settlement which obliged banks to pay = $1.25=20 billion in compensation. To date--April 2000--not a penny went to = a single=20 victim. Why? Are they waiting for all the victims to die? When the = WJC was=20 demanding compensation and the Swiss proposed waiting until the = results of=20 the audit were made known, the Jewish side argued there was no = time=20 because Holocaust victims in need were dying off every day. Once = the WJC=20 achieved its goal, the time pressure disappeared. Now the WJC has = plenty=20 of time because it already has the money.

[Darewicz] Do you = think=20 that Jewish organizations acted in like manner during the = negotiations=20 with the Germans concerning compensations for forced=20 labor?

[Finkelstein] Yes, I do. The strategy was repeated. = In=20 August 1998 a settlement was reached with Swiss banks, and as soon = as=20 September of the same year, the same lawyers filed class action = suits=20 against German businesses. Once again Alan Havesi turned up; once = again=20 hearings held in Congress and Senate,once again Stuart Eizenstat = in the=20 role of "mediator."

I began examining the issue more = closely and=20 raised two questions: "What happened to the money the Germans had = paid to=20 victims earlier?" "How many victims were still alive today? The = JCC=20 claimed during the negotiations that there were still 135,000 = former=20 Jewish forced laborers still alive today. It follows that, at the = end of=20 the war in 1945, there were approximately 600,000, because only a = fourth=20 lived for the next 50 years. Meanwhile, Holocaust historians = estimate that=20 in May 1945 there were 50,000, and certainly not more than 100,000 = Jewish=20 survivors who used to work as slave laborers. How was the 135,000 = figue=20 arrived at? The number of victims was overestimated to get more = money. Now=20 the JCC will put ads in the press asking entitled individuals to = collect=20 their compensation money. Predictably, the number of these people = will not=20 exceed 20,000; in addition, if the JCC rejects some applications = for a=20 variety of reasons, such as incomplete documentation, the actual = number of=20 individuals who will collect the money may reach 10,000. The rest = of the=20 money will remain with the WJC. This is why I believe Jewish = organizations=20 are turning the Holocaust into a lucrative business. I am firmly = opposed=20 it. Neither the Germans nor the Jews ought to make money off the=20 Holocaust, because this insults the memory and the dignity of the = millions=20 of Jews who were the victims of the = annihilation.

[Darewicz] Like=20 Jews, Poles also were the victims of the war. However, recent = class action=20 suits were also filed against Poland, which has been asked to = return to=20 Jews the assets lost in the war.

[Finkelstein] Poles are = next in=20 line. The strategy which had a trial run in Switzerland and = Germany will=20 be used to obtain huge compensations from Poland under false = pretenses. It=20 is to be the "grand finale." It is to be "grand" because Jewish=20 organizations are going to demand much more money than they have = demanded=20 from any other country. The Swiss paid the WJC $1.25 billion and,=20 recently, the Germans paid $1.3 billion in compensations for the = work of=20 forced laborers. In the case of Poland there is already talk of = Jewish=20 assets valued at several dozen billion dollars. This campaign is = already=20 under way. Suits have been filed, congressmen have been writing = letters to=20 Polish government, and, as far as I know, Alan Havesi will visit = Poland=20 before soon. A motion requesting holding congressional hearings = has been=20 submitted.Stuart Eizenstat will once again get into the act, and = so=20 on.

My mother's father had a tobacco shop in Poland before = the war,=20 and my father's father owned a small sawmill. I do not even know = the names=20 of my grandparents; my parents never spoke about them, and, even = though I=20 am the legal heir, it would never occur to me to demand = restitution of=20 that property. Frankly, my parents hated Poles as much as Germans, = because=20 those were their experiences. I neither condemn nor condone it. = However, I=20 know my parents would never have agreed to have the current Polish = owners=20 of their former estates thrown out under the aegis of=20 compensation.

[Darewicz] What about the Jews who want the = return of=20 their former assets in Poland? Aren't they = entitled?

[Finkelstein]=20 Of course, the small Jewish community in Poland is no doubt = entitled to=20 some of the former assets of Jewish communities, synagogues, = cemeteries,=20 schools, etc. But all the synagogues, hospitals, and schools? Are = several=20 thousand people entitled to an infrastructure which once served = several=20 million Polish Jews? The chapter on privately owned assets, except = for=20 claims documented beyond any doubt, should be closed. A huge = majority of=20 former owners are already dead anyway, so why should the WJC and = their=20 lawyers have even reason to talk of tens of billions of dollars = when only=20 a handful survived?

The Polish authorities should not talk = to=20 blackmailers since they are mostly bluffing and playing a waiting = game. If=20 you make one concession, new claims will surface sooner or later. = The=20 Germans already paid Jews upwards of $100 billion and now they had = to pay=20 again. If Poland makes any concessions, I am sure that after a = time, when=20 Poland gets richer, the WJC will show up again to ask for money. = WJC=20 Chairman Edgar Bronfman has his own jet and claims he needs money = for=20 "poor" victims. Here is what I would say to him: "Mister, your = personal=20 assets exceed $3 billion. Share it with the victims. You would = have more=20 than enough. Leave Poland=20 be."
------=_NextPart_000_0204_01C84026.AB943190-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:17 EST 2007 Article: 1234383 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234383 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust Restitution in Poland H.R.2601 Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_020D_01C84026.EC31F110" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197857003 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:03:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:03:23 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:03:23 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_020D_01C84026.EC31F110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Holocaust Restitution in Poland The Claims Conference continues to work with the World Jewish = Restitution Organization, the Holocaust Restitution Committee, and = others to press the case of Holocaust restitution in Poland. Please see = below the "Sense of Congress" legislation passed in the United States.=20 H.R.2601 Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 2006 and 2007 = (Engrossed as Agreed to or Passed by House) SEC. 1428. LEGISLATION REQUIRING THE FAIR, COMPREHENSIVE, AND = NONDISCRIMINATORY RESTITUTION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY CONFISCATED IN POLAND. (a) Findings - Congress find the following: (1) The protection of and respect for property rights is a basic tenet = for all democratic governments that operate according to the rule of = law. (2) Private properties were seized and confiscated by the Nazis in = occupied Poland or by the Communist Polish government after World War = II. (3) Some post-Communist countries in Europe have taken steps toward = compensating individuals whose property was seized and confiscated by = the Nazis during World War II and by Communist governments after World = War II. (4) Poland has continuously failed to enact legislation that requires = realistically achievable restitution or compensation for those = individuals who had their private property seized and confiscated. (5) Although President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland later exercised = his veto power, in March 2001 the Polish Parliament passed a bill that = would have provided compensation for seized and confiscated property, = but only to individuals who were registered as Polish citizens as of = December 31, 1999, thereby excluding all those individuals who emigrated = >from Poland during and after World War II. (6) President Kwasniewski met in 2002 with congressional leaders of the = United States Helsinki Commission and stated that he intended to draft a = new law requiring the restitution of previously seized and confiscated = private property that would not discriminate based on the residency or = citizenship of an individual, and which would be ready to take effect by = the beginning of 2003. (b) Sense of Congress- It is the sense of Congress that -=20 (1) Poland should develop a final and complete settlement for those = individuals who had their private property seized and confiscated by the = Nazis during World War II or by the Communist Polish government after = the war; (2) restitution should be made in a timely manner if they are to be of = any benefit to the many Holocaust survivors who are in their eighties or = older; and (3) the President and the Secretary of State should engage, as = appropriate -=20 (A) in an open dialogue with the Government of Poland supporting the = adoption of legislation requiring the fair, comprehensive, and = nondiscriminatory restitution of or compensation for private property = that was seized and confiscated; and (B) in follow-up discussions with the Government of Poland regarding the = status and implementation of such legislation.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_020D_01C84026.EC31F110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Holocaust Restitution in Poland

The Claims Conference continues to work with the World Jewish = Restitution=20 Organization, the Holocaust Restitution Committee, and others to press = the case=20 of Holocaust restitution in Poland. Please see below the "Sense of = Congress"=20 legislation passed in the United States.

H.R.2601

Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 2006 and 2007 = (Engrossed=20 as Agreed to or Passed by House)

SEC. 1428. LEGISLATION REQUIRING THE FAIR, COMPREHENSIVE, AND=20 NONDISCRIMINATORY RESTITUTION OF PRIVATE PROPERTY CONFISCATED IN = POLAND.

(a) Findings - Congress find the following:

(1) The protection of and respect for property rights is a basic = tenet for=20 all democratic governments that operate according to the rule of = law.

(2) Private properties were seized and confiscated by the Nazis in = occupied=20 Poland or by the Communist Polish government after World War II.

(3) Some post-Communist countries in Europe have taken steps toward=20 compensating individuals whose property was seized and confiscated by = the Nazis=20 during World War II and by Communist governments after World War II.

(4) Poland has continuously failed to enact legislation that requires = realistically achievable restitution or compensation for those = individuals who=20 had their private property seized and confiscated.

(5) Although President Aleksander Kwasniewski of Poland later = exercised his=20 veto power, in March 2001 the Polish Parliament passed a bill that would = have=20 provided compensation for seized and confiscated property, but only to=20 individuals who were registered as Polish citizens as of December 31, = 1999,=20 thereby excluding all those individuals who emigrated from Poland during = and=20 after World War II.

(6) President Kwasniewski met in 2002 with congressional leaders of = the=20 United States Helsinki Commission and stated that he intended to draft a = new law=20 requiring the restitution of previously seized and confiscated private = property=20 that would not discriminate based on the residency or citizenship of an=20 individual, and which would be ready to take effect by the beginning of=20 2003.

(b) Sense of Congress- It is the sense of Congress that =97

(1) Poland should develop a final and complete settlement for those=20 individuals who had their private property seized and confiscated by the = Nazis=20 during World War II or by the Communist Polish government after the = war;

(2) restitution should be made in a timely manner if they are to be = of any=20 benefit to the many Holocaust survivors who are in their eighties or = older;=20 and

(3) the President and the Secretary of State should engage, as = appropriate =97=20

(A) in an open dialogue with the Government of Poland supporting the = adoption=20 of legislation requiring the fair, comprehensive, and nondiscriminatory=20 restitution of or compensation for private property that was seized and=20 confiscated; and

(B) in follow-up discussions with the Government of Poland regarding = the=20 status and implementation of such legislation. =

------=_NextPart_000_020D_01C84026.EC31F110-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:18 EST 2007 Article: 1234387 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234387 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Majdanek Victims Enumerated Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0216_01C84027.CB75DB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197857382 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:09:42 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:09:42 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[RGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:09:42 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0216_01C84027.CB75DB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Majdanek Victims Enumerated=20 This next story is an amazing admission especially in light of the = recent incarcerations of David Irving, Germar Rudolf, Ernst Zuendel, = Siegfried Verbeke and others. The official Web-site of the = Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum has published this article = showing that the number of victims at the Majdanek concentration camp is = now estimated at 78,000.=20 Despite the Museum's claim that the ususal estimate for Majdanek victims = has been from 235,000 to 360,000 it is frequently a much higher number = that is given. For example Lucy Dawidowicz in her "The War Against the = Jews: 1933-1945" gives the number of 1,380,000 (p.200) The Saturday = Evening Post in an article entitled, "Here the Nazi Butchers Wasted = Nothing" published on October 28, 1944 estimated 1,000,000 corpses. The revisionist position was recently published in a volume by Jurgen = Graf and Carlo Mattogno, "Concentration Camp Majdanek: A Historical and = Technical Study." This volume was published by Germar Rudolf's Theses & = Dissertations Press in November 2004. Mattogno and Graf write, = "Therefore taking all this into account, the total number of deaths in = Majdanek from the time of its establishment to the day of its liberation = on July 23, 1944 was approximately 42,200 (p.79). Therefore, assuming = the new estimate as the correct one, Lucy Dawidowicz was off by = 1,302,000 while the book published by Germar Rudolf was off by 35,800. = That puts the revisionists off by 45% and the exterminationists off by = 1669%. Could someone remind me why Germar Rudolf is in prison? Free the Revisionist Thought-Criminals Now!!! Majdanek Victims Enumerated Pawel P. Reszka, Lublin, Gazeta Wyborcza / 2005/12/23, 13:09 Changes in the history textbooks? Lublin scholar Tomasz Kranz has = established that the Nazis murdered 78,000 people at the Majdanek = concentration camp-several times fewer than previous estimates Two figures of the number of Majdanek victims have usually been in = use-360,000 or 235,000. Kranz, director of the Research Department of = the State Museum at Majdanek, asserts that approximately 59,000 Jews and = 19,000 people of other ethnic backgrounds, mostly Poles and = Byelorussians, died there. Kranz published his estimate in the latest = edition of the journal Zeszyty Majdanka. The figure of 360,000 victims appears in the Encyclopedia of the = Holocaust, the Britannica Polish edition, and the Polish Nowa = Encyklopedia Powszechna PWN. In all three cases, the source is a 1948 = publication by Zdzislaw Lukaszkiewicz, a judge who was a member of the = Main Commission for the Investigation of Nazi Crimes in Poland. The second figure, of 235,000, comes from a 1992 article by Dr. Czesaw = Rajca, now retired from the Majdanek museum staff. Rajca's estimate = appears in the Wikipedia internet encyclopedia and in the exhibit at the = Majdanek Museum. Rajca said that he "established that estimate on the basis of = calculations by historians as published by the museum in the 1991 = monograph on the camp. The people doing the research did not have access = to all the sources, including some in Germany. Nor did I use all the = records available in the museum archives, because they are fragmentary, = and they will not be useful in analyzing the mortality figures at = Majdanek until the data they contain is entered in the computers." Rajca emphasized that he had "not yet read Tomasz Kranz's article, but, = at first glance, his figures for the number of people killed in the camp = seem incredibly low." Kranz claims to have examined all available sources, including the = extant fragments of the camp death book, the death registry, the = notifications of prisoner deaths that the Nazis sent to parishes in = Lublin, testimony at their trial in Dusseldorf in the late 1970s and = early 1980s by SS men garrisoned at Majdanek, and accounts by surviving = prisoners. Before it went to press, Kranz's article was read by most of the = Majdanek museum staff and discussed at a special meeting. No one raised = any objections. "The findings are highly authoritative," said Prof. = Zygmunt Mankowski, chairman of the Majdanek Museum board. "However, we = do not know the definitive number of prisoners who passed through the = camp or the number of those whose deaths the camp administration did not = register. It cannot be ruled out that new documents will come to light = that alter Kranz's findings. This must be borne in mind, and his = calculations accepted with a certain caution." Majdanek museum director Edward Balawejder recommended that guides = inform the visitors to whom they show the camp about the new = calculations as to the number of victims, but also tell them that = research is still underway to determine how many prisoners passed = through the camp. "78,000 deaths over the course of three years is a crime on an enormous = scale, and not only in comparison with other camps like Buchenwald, = where about 56,000 people died over eight years," said Kranz. "It must = be remembered, however, that the number of victims only gives an idea = about the scale of genocide; it does not convey the measureless pain and = suffering experienced by the people imprisoned and murdered at Majdanek." ------=_NextPart_000_0216_01C84027.CB75DB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Majdanek Victims Enumerated

This next story is an amazing = admission=20 especially in light of the recent incarcerations of David Irving, Germar = Rudolf,=20 Ernst Zuendel, Siegfried Verbeke and others. The official Web-site of = the=20 Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum has published this article = showing that=20 the number of victims at the Majdanek concentration camp is now = estimated at=20 78,000.

Despite the Museum's claim that the = ususal=20 estimate for Majdanek victims has been from 235,000 to 360,000 it is = frequently=20 a much higher number that is given. For example Lucy Dawidowicz in her = "The War=20 Against the Jews: 1933-1945" gives the number of 1,380,000 (p.200) The = Saturday=20 Evening Post in an article entitled, "Here the Nazi Butchers Wasted = Nothing"=20 published on October 28, 1944 estimated 1,000,000 corpses.

The=20 revisionist position was recently published in a volume by Jurgen Graf = and Carlo=20 Mattogno, "Concentration Camp Majdanek: A Historical and Technical = Study." This=20 volume was published by Germar Rudolf's Theses & Dissertations = Press=20 in November 2004. Mattogno and Graf write, "Therefore taking all = this into=20 account, the total number of deaths in Majdanek from the time of its=20 establishment to the day of its liberation on July 23, 1944 was = approximately=20 42,200 (p.79). Therefore, assuming the new estimate as the correct one, = Lucy=20 Dawidowicz was off by 1,302,000 while the book published by Germar = Rudolf was=20 off by 35,800. That puts the revisionists off by 45% and the = exterminationists=20 off by 1669%.

Could someone remind me why Germar Rudolf is in=20 prison?

Free the Revisionist Thought-Criminals=20 Now!!!


Majdanek Victims = Enumerated

Paweł P.=20 Reszka, Lublin, Gazeta Wyborcza / 2005/12/23, 13:09


Changes = in the=20 history textbooks? Lublin scholar Tomasz Kranz has established that the = Nazis=20 murdered 78,000 people at the Majdanek concentration camp=97several = times fewer=20 than previous estimates

Two figures of the number of Majdanek = victims=20 have usually been in use=97360,000 or 235,000. Kranz, director of the = Research=20 Department of the State Museum at Majdanek, asserts that approximately = 59,000=20 Jews and 19,000 people of other ethnic backgrounds, mostly Poles and=20 Byelorussians, died there. Kranz published his estimate in the latest = edition of=20 the journal Zeszyty Majdanka.

The figure of 360,000 victims = appears in=20 the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, the Britannica Polish edition, and = the Polish=20 Nowa Encyklopedia Powszechna PWN. In all three cases, the source is a = 1948=20 publication by Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz, a judge who was a = member of the Main=20 Commission for the Investigation of Nazi Crimes in Poland.

The = second=20 figure, of 235,000, comes from a 1992 article by Dr. Czesaw Rajca, now = retired=20 >from the Majdanek museum staff. Rajca=92s estimate appears in the = Wikipedia=20 internet encyclopedia and in the exhibit at the Majdanek = Museum.

Rajca=20 said that he =93established that estimate on the basis of calculations = by=20 historians as published by the museum in the 1991 monograph on the camp. = The=20 people doing the research did not have access to all the sources, = including some=20 in Germany. Nor did I use all the records available in the museum = archives,=20 because they are fragmentary, and they will not be useful in analyzing = the=20 mortality figures at Majdanek until the data they contain is entered in = the=20 computers.=94

Rajca emphasized that he had =93not yet read Tomasz = Kranz=92s=20 article, but, at first glance, his figures for the number of people = killed in=20 the camp seem incredibly low.=94

Kranz claims to have examined = all=20 available sources, including the extant fragments of the camp death = book, the=20 death registry, the notifications of prisoner deaths that the Nazis sent = to=20 parishes in Lublin, testimony at their trial in Dusseldorf in the late = 1970s and=20 early 1980s by SS men garrisoned at Majdanek, and accounts by surviving=20 prisoners.

Before it went to press, Kranz=92s article was read by = most of=20 the Majdanek museum staff and discussed at a special meeting. No one = raised any=20 objections. =93The findings are highly authoritative,=94 said Prof. = Zygmunt=20 Mańkowski, chairman of the Majdanek Museum board. =93However, we do = not know the=20 definitive number of prisoners who passed through the camp or the number = of=20 those whose deaths the camp administration did not register. It cannot = be ruled=20 out that new documents will come to light that alter Kranz=92s findings. = This must=20 be borne in mind, and his calculations accepted with a certain=20 caution.=94

Majdanek museum director Edward Balawejder = recommended that=20 guides inform the visitors to whom they show the camp about the new = calculations=20 as to the number of victims, but also tell them that research is still = underway=20 to determine how many prisoners passed through the = camp.

=9378,000 deaths=20 over the course of three years is a crime on an enormous scale, and not = only in=20 comparison with other camps like Buchenwald, where about 56,000 people = died over=20 eight years,=94 said Kranz. =93It must be remembered, however, that the = number of=20 victims only gives an idea about the scale of genocide; it does not = convey the=20 measureless pain and suffering experienced by the people imprisoned and = murdered=20 at Majdanek.=94
------=_NextPart_000_0216_01C84027.CB75DB20-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:19 EST 2007 Article: 1234395 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234395 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY HOLOCAUST Lines: 10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197859971 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:52:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 21:52:51 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BSZUSAANVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 02:52:51 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the Connecticut Coward, > wrote: > > > [...] > >>NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >> >>The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >>population was >>15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the American Jewish >>Committee. Nest the > > Alas for poor Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the World Almanac of 1947 > *also* clearly > states that it's Jewish population figures were taken from PRE-WAR census > data. > > Funny Leading Revisionist Liar Snow hasn't seen fit to mention that. Funny was your face before you got a haircut. http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_Kenneth_McVay.jpg Don’t shoot the messenger. Its obvious I copied and pasted the article unless you are too high to notice that. If you have objections to the article feel free to take it out with the article composer Dr. E. R. Fields which I doubt you will. > > On 2nd thought, given his track record, it isn't the least bit surprising. > > Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention > inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you > the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions > with documentary evidence. > > Question 1: > > On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: > , > you made the claim: > > 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. > > http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - > > Please document your claim or retract it. > > Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: > > "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." > > Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal > gassings are a "myth." > > Question 3: > > On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they > could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to > whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." > > Please document these claims or retract them. > > Question 4: > > On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated > that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." > > Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which > I made such a statement. > > Question 5: > > In article , > > you wrote: > > "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free > speech > rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the > teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as > "Revisionism" -- and won." > > Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" > as > you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: > > Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, > Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. > In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then > 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting > hatred against an identifiable group by communicating > anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by > a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of > Queen's Bench. > > Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil > qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as > ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', > ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He > taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy > Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, > chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews > ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast > to the open and honest Christians, were said to be > deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra > expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class > and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. > > Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of > Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on > a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of > the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of > expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among > the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the > defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates > the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was > dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter > tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the > Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. > The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and > it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. > > The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, > Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, > Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, > Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund > (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the > Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has > intervened in support of striking down the impugned > legislation. > > Question 6: > > In article , you wrote: > > "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written > by > Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all > "Holocaust > supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. > > Question 7: > > On July 30, 2007, you wrote: > > "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi > Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't > deal directly with Nazi Germany. > > "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy > companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people > didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." > > Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" > involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank > owners." > > Question 8: > > On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust > supporting > articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a > comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their > authors, > and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by > Jewish organizations." > > Question 9: > > On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members > who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are > the forefront of such edits." > > Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews > being in the "forefront of such edits." > > Question 10: > > On August 5, 2007, you wrote: > >>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ > > ...and... > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we > find, shall we? > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the > Polish > Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary > Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination > Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of > their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting > and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five > hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of > the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such > as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, > Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 > we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates > were gassed at Maidanek." > > (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow > notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, > he is lying - again.) > > The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar > (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* > were murdered there. > > The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek > written by > Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed > through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, > sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, > hanging, > or being shot." > > Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims > were Jews. > > Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: > > "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article > (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the > transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd > appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to > determine > if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, > now tha they have been exposed. > > Question 11: > > In article , on August 15, > 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a > pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." > > Please document when and where any of my children have > made such statements or admit you cannot. > > Question 12: > > In article , posted on > August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: > > "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." > > Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. > > If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all > means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, > in and of itself, a crime. > > -- > "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you > people did hang him after that" > (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/ From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:19 EST 2007 Article: 1234399 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234399 soc.history:231016 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history References: Subject: Re: Hitlers Globe Sells For $100,000 At Auction. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197860471 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:01:11 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:01:11 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNH\KMAVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:01:11 GMT "perfumeTheMovie" wrote in message news:b194bea3-e3e3-466d-96d3-3490c51a1ea4@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 5:49 pm, "It's all a bit strange" > wrote: >> Protagonist wrote >> innews:G4ednZG1X4PECvjanZ2dnUVZ_ramnZ2d@comcast.com: >> >> > I think >> >> You've actually never presented any proof that you think. >> > > Neither have you. You're the dumbest 12 year old on this NG. > And why do you keep quoting from Ben Cramer? Are you trying to make a > point? Ben Cramer is this kids new idol. Surprised he didn't ask Ben for his autograph yet. > >> I'm still waiting for the proof that I threatened to sue >> someone, but I guess just like ole irish you are a coward, fraud >> and liar. >> >> -- >> Like Minded Mates >> Reading from Mein Kampf >> Snuggling by the fire >> He shares his deepest thoughts >> Holding him close >> My Aryan warrior >> A warm bath >> Then the lights go out >> >> Ben Cramer >> Copyright (c)2007 Ben Cramer > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:20 EST 2007 Article: 1234400 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234400 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <886cfce2-1265-47c5-afd8-a720a7a1bd5e@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: The US couldn't have starved DEF's on purpose Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197860638 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:03:58 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:03:58 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BL\QMIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:03:58 GMT "perfumeTheMovie" wrote in message news:886cfce2-1265-47c5-afd8-a720a7a1bd5e@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > I mean it's not like they've done the nasty since or?... > {Note these links are not an indictment of the American people, but > rather a critique of the cabal that runs the show} > > Albright is so keen on KILLING!!! > http://www.mathaba.net/info/bitch.htm > what a psychotic > http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084 > > It's not as though the US murders its own citizens: > http://www.serendipity.li/waco.html > > Remember Ruby Ridge? > http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3574 > > No. Ike would never have deliberately starved German POW's er I mean > DEF's. I always wondered why he would change their POW designation. Just like Iraq POW designation was changed, for legal reasons. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:20 EST 2007 Article: 1234405 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234405 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <7qydnQkZ3qN1NfnanZ2dnUVZ_viunZ2d@comcast.com> <319ef2f4-4598-404d-b6cc-df830e0b843f@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: They all come to jew groups to post hate Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <0Rl9j.80499$Um6.17418@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197861308 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:15:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:15:08 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:15:08 GMT "perfumeTheMovie" wrote in message news:319ef2f4-4598-404d-b6cc-df830e0b843f@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 7:20 pm, "It's all a bit strange" > wrote: >> "Snow" wrote >> innews:nJi9j.30586$lD6.9885@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net: >> >> >> >> >> >> > "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in >> > message >> >news:qKudnZEYDedSMfnanZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@giganews.com... >> >> >> "MasterChief" <1...@nowhere.com> wrote in message >> >>news:7qydnQkZ3qN1NfnanZ2dnUVZ_viunZ2d@comcast.com... >> >>> There was a study done by some anthropologist,claiming >> >>> the Jewish behavior has to do with their survival. >> >> >> Christians went through a pretty rough time throughout >> >> history. Wonder why they don't act like the hebes? >> >> > Because Christians follow the teachings of Jesus and new >> > testament. >> >> That's true, Jesus taught that christians should go to the >> middle east and have multiple crusades, auto-da-fe's and the >> inquisition. He also taught the christians to go to south >> american and slaughter the Inca's. >> >> Quite a guy he was. Not sure if Jesus knew about Incas but Christianity did lots of terror in the middle ages. The Teutonic Knights for example, terrorized Poland for couple of centuries, all with Vatican's permission of course. But if you actually look at Jesus teachings and new testament, it forbids violence and many other acts that are basis for law such as stealing. It is the old testament that allows violence. I know Judaism rejects Jesus and new testament but the Jews seem to follow old testament. Also didn't new testament condemned Jews for their actions? >> > Are you sure the conquistadores were Christian? I don't think so. > They called themselves Christian but they could not have been > Christian. People are for the most part most of the time deluded by > the mass media; and yes there was mass media in those days and in > present times telling the people to kill in the name of Christ. What > utter nonsense. > I remember when Bush Sr. started the first gulf war; he said that we > are doing this for God and Country. Like God wants the US to > slaughter people in the mid east. > All religion is man made anyway. If the Jews are the chosen people, > where was God during the 'holocaust'? No miracles performed? No Red > Sea parted? Religion causes problems. Big time. Why do we need > religion to tell us how to live, or what is wrong or right? Are we > unable to figure out our own morals, morals that are conducive to > living harmoniously with others? > > http://lexicorient.com/e.o/crusades.htm > >> >> >> >> >> >>> "Dr. Noah" wrote in message >> >>>news:OH09j.3822$JW4.1527@trnddc05... >> >> >>>> "mcs" wrote in message >> >>>>news:AvU8j.666$1R1.178@trndny02... >> >>>>> some are probably idiots but many represent people who >> >>>>> otherwise seem logical. What is significant is they >> >>>>> think people are born bad and rarely ever post bad >> >>>>> things about their groups.. sure jews hate but it >> >>>>> often based on real objection for them being hated.by >> >>>>> specific people. I rarely see jews go after anyone or >> >>>>> go to other groups saying they hate anyone,, and they >> >>>>> would have more reasons to do it more often. >> >> >>>> Here we go again, another jew apologist lol The fact >> >>>> of the matter is that jews suffer from a genetic mental >> >>>> disorder which includes paranoia. They subconsciously do >> >>>> things to make people retaliate and then this confirms >> >>>> their crazy belief that people are out to get them. They >> >>>> accuse other people of all sorts of nasty things but >> >>>> this just reflects what's on Their minds and what they >> >>>> want to do to people. Read the talmud which is like >> >>>> mother's milk to a jew. There's a talk show jockey named >> >>>> Michael Savage (real name Weiner, a jew) who claims that >> >>>> Liberalism is a mental disorder. Liberalism=Judaism. >> >>>> Little does Savage know how accurate he is when he >> >>>> pokes fun at liberals using a quasi NY yiddish accent. >> >>>> Now, being liberal is actually a good thing but the sort >> >>>> of Liberalism we're talking about is insanity and >> >>>> against human nature and survival. This is the sort of >> >>>> libralism the jew wants to impose on everyone else >> >>>> while he retains his tribal customs and exclusivity. >> >>>> Communism, feminism. libralism all have the same effect >> >>>> of weakening the outsider for the jew's benefit. >> >> -- >> Like Minded Mates >> Reading from Mein Kampf >> Snuggling by the fire >> He shares his deepest thoughts >> Holding him close >> My Aryan warrior >> A warm bath >> Then the lights go out >> >> Ben Cramer >> Copyright (c)2007 Ben Cramer > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:20 EST 2007 Article: 1234407 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597725 soc.culture.german:379965 soc.culture.jewish:1802149 soc.culture.israel:1663330 alt.revisionism:1234407 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com> <13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Nazi "Human skin" lampshades were NOT "actually goat skin" Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197861561 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:19:21 GMT "Joe Smokey Firestone" wrote in message news:kt09j.3820$JW4.570@trnddc05... > Can I ask you once simple question Mr. Mc Vay? Why General, and later > President Eisenhower never mentioned anything in his memoir about the > holocaust and the gas Chambers. He was very close to the war, he was the > allied commander who was informed about all the intelligence traffic that > reached his desk. Why President Truman never mentioned anything about the > gas chambers since he was the sitting president and vice president during > the entire war. In Truman Memoir, he was very angry at the creation of the > Jewish state. He felt it will be the disaster the will seal the American > Foreign policy around the world. the Jews must survive on their own, we > can't remain silent to the forgeries and lies they presented us for the > past 60 years. > > Joe Smokey Firestone Looks like Mr. McVay doesn't have answers for your question but yet found time to reply to ElPadron. Perhaps Mr. McVay is having difficult time doing the Google research because I doubt he ever visited a library or read a book even, although you never know, perhaps he is one well read gas attendant. > > > > "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message ter that yet > to news:13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com... >> In article <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com>, >> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>According to Jean Edward Smith in his biography, "Lucius D. Clay, an >>>American Life," the general maintained that the leather lamp shades were >>>really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by General >>>Clay years later: >> >> You're not very good at this, are you? >> >> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >> >> >> Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps >> Last-Modified: 1997/01/03 >> >> Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 6 >> >> [Page 123] >> >> COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS >> >> SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY >> APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y. >> >> Section of Pathology >> 25 May 1945 >> >> SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides >> >> TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army) >> >> (ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) >> >> 1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for >> examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin >> from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case >> 81 T.J.A. >> >> [Page 124] >> >> 2. The description follows: >> >> GROSS: Specimen consists of three pieces of skin >> labeled A.B.C. >> >> PIECE A: Measures 13x13cm., is transparent and >> shows a woman's head in the center and a sailor >> with an anchor near the margin. >> >> PIECE B: Measures 14x13cm., is transparent and is >> a tattoo of several anchors resting on an >> indefinite black mass. To the right of this mass >> is a man's head. >> >> PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44cm. At the >> base. The upper portion is 30 cm. Long and the >> sides measure 46 cm. The skin is transparent and >> shows two nipples in the upper area. These are 16 >> cm. Apart. From the nipple level to the umbilicus >> is 23 « cm. A large bird, with a wingspread >> measuring 28 cm., is present in the center of the >> skin, upper part. A black dragon, with fire >> coming from the mouth, measures 28 cm. in length >> and is present in the center of the skin. To the >> left of the dragon is a man in a coat of mail, >> with a sword being apparently stuck in the dragon. >> Man is approximately 22 cm. in length. >> >> MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of >> collagen showing occasional epithelial and sweat >> gland remnants. Granular black pigment granules >> are seen between some of the bundles. >> >> 3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three >> specimens are tattooed human skin. >> >> For the Commanding Officer, >> >> [signed] REUBEN CARES >> Ruben Cares >> Major M.C., Chief of pathology >> >> >> >> -- >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.01 >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.02 > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:20 EST 2007 Article: 1234411 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234411 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Holocaust Summary. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02C3_01C84034.2885BEF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197862686 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:38:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:38:06 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:38:06 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02C3_01C84034.2885BEF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So let me get this straight. The soap made out of Jews is not true. Lamp shade skin out of Jews is not true. There were never geysers of blood from children The smoke color didn't really differ between Jews and non-Jews Victim numbers are being lowered from the originals. so are there any original holocaust so called facts that haven't been = revised or changed? ------=_NextPart_000_02C3_01C84034.2885BEF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So let me get this straight.
The soap made out of Jews is not true.
Lamp shade skin out of Jews is not = true.
There were never geysers of blood from = children
The smoke color didn=92t really differ between Jews = and=20 non-Jews
Victim numbers are being lowered from the=20 originals.
 
so are there any original holocaust so called facts = that=20 haven't been revised or changed?
 
------=_NextPart_000_02C3_01C84034.2885BEF0-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:21 EST 2007 Article: 1234415 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234415 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197862997 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:43:17 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:43:17 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BSZUSAANVUEAE[YETZPIWWI[FCIZA^NBFXZ_D[BFNTCNVPDTNTKHWXKB@X^B_OCJLPZ@ET_O[G\XSG@E\G[ZKVLBL^CJINM@I_KVIOR\T_M_AW_M[_BWU_HFA_]@A_A^SGFAUDE_DFTMQPFWVW[QPJN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:43:17 GMT wrote in message news:2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 5:43 pm, "Snow" wrote: >> WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? >> >> By Dr. E. R. Fields >> >> The Holocaust has become the greatest instrument of sympathy which any >> nation has ever been able to use to gain support for wars, expansion and >> foreign-aid: This has made Israel the world's sixth strongest military >> power. The gravest threat to all this wealth and influence is the growing >> doubt over the question of whether or not a real holocaust of 6 million >> Jews actual took place. >> >> NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >> >> The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >> population was 15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the >> American Jewish Committee. Nest the Jewish owned New York Times of Feb. >> 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to >> 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in the addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living >> in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over >> the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people? With the rise of Hitler >> to power there were no more than 4 million Jews at the most living in >> areas occupied by the Third Reich at the height of its power. On June 30, >> 1965, the West German government announced that some 3,375,000 Jewish >> holocaust "survivors" had applied for reparations money. The Red Cross >> reported in 1946 that of registered Jewish camp inmates no more than >> 300,000 could have died. It is interesting to note that in the Jews real >> "bible", The Talmud, it is claimed that 800,000 Jews were slaughtered by >> the Romans in Hadrians era. Yet there is no historical evidence >> supporting this claim. The Jewish owned New York Times, in 1945 carried >> an article by the well known Jewish writer C.L. Sulzberger. It openly >> stated Soviet Russia supplied the figure of 4 million Jews having been >> put to death "in the gas chambers of Auschwitz." Thus it was the >> communists and the Jews who initially originated these figures which >> today are accepted as "gospel truth". It is claimed that from 1934 to >> 1945 some 50,000 people died in the huge Bergen-Belsen camp. This count >> is considered exaggerated, still Time Magazine reports that of this >> figure 20,000 died of typhus during the single month of March, 1945! If >> nearly half died of this plague in just one month at the end of the war >> there is no way Bergen-Belsen could have been an "extermination camp". >> >> HIMMLER-"REDUCE DEATHS AT ALL COSTS" >> >> Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Concentration Camps issued orders on Dec. >> 28, 1942, that "The death rate in the concentration camps must be reduced >> at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, "The Final Solution.") The >> camps had been hit with a deadly typhus epidemic that spread by fleas and >> body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and death can quickly >> follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss of workers was >> hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks responded >> to Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will be used to lower >> the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document No. 1523.) On >> April 10, 1943, Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic Administration Office >> of the camps issued a letter stating that persons with tuberculosis were >> being sent to the camps resulting in the "shockingly high mortality >> figures." (Source: Nuremberg Documents.) Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl >> was able to show that the camp death rate had been reduced from 8.5% in >> July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The German SS arrested Buchenwald >> Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for mistreating and even executing some >> prisoners. After an investigation Koch was found guilty by SS Judge >> Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this sound like a policy of "extermination?" >> With suspicion rapidly rising about the holocaust claim a committee of >> Jewish leaders from New York and Paris met with communist leaders in >> Warsaw. There they established the "Committee for the Investigation of >> War Crimes and War Criminals". It was after this meeting that the >> announcement was made that all gas chambers were located in Poland. >> >> THE PROBLEMS OF MASS GASSING >> >> In 1945 it was announced that gas death chambers existed in all >> concentration camps in Poland, Germany, Austria and Alsace. Some 15 years >> later, in 1960, this was revised to the new claim that gas chambers >> existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland. Simon Weisenthal of >> the Los Angeles Holocaust center states in the paper, "Books and >> Bookmen", April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any camp on >> German soil." The pressure had been growing since The Vatican, Red Cross, >> English Intelligence and German Intelligence chiefs Canaris and Oster >> (who collaborated with the British) either did not know or believe in >> rumors of gassings. >> >> This brings up the following questions. 1) Germans are meticulous record >> keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas >> chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims. 2) >> There have been thousands on investigations of alleged Nazi war >> criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of >> being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either side >> has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed-AND THERE ARE >> SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! 3) Photos of bodies at >> Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and >> malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus. 4) The Vatican and Red >> Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the war >> about alleged gas chambers. the response was always the same, "The >> detainees themselves have not spoken of them." (From the Red Cross >> document No. 9925, June 1946.) >> >> FORCED CONFESSIONS OF GASSINGS >> >> Rudoft Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. captured >> by the Soviets they extracted a confession to mass gassings using >> Zyclon-B gas. Such "confessions" are about as reliable as any forced by >> Stalin from victims tortured before taking the stand to confess during >> the Moscow show trials of 1936. The communists wrote the "Confession' and >> Hoess signed it. Later he was hanged. An assistant commandant refused to >> sign-he died in his cell. Hoess statement read, "half an hour after >> having released the gas, they opened the door and started the ventilation >> machines. They began immediately to extract the bodies while eating and >> smoking." Was Hoess trying to get a message across that there were no >> gassing? Zyclon-B is not "ventable". The manufacturers state Zyclon-B >> adheres to surface clothing and skin. They say that only after a 24 hour >> period, wearing a gas mask with the strongest filter, could any bodies be >> removed without killing such workers. If we believe the Hoess confession >> that the workers ran into the gas chamber "eating and smoking" - without >> gas masks - only minutes after the gassing - IF THIS OCCURRED ALL WOULD >> HAVE DIED! >> >> GAS STORIES NOT POSSIBLE >> >> The Jew Mosche Pearlmann in his book, "The Capture and Trial of Adolph >> Eichmann" pages 375 and 385 states Zyclon-B crystals were introduced from >> the ceilings of the gas chambers and "became immediately gaseous." The >> American Cyanamid Co. of Linden N.J. states: "We know of no chemical >> process whereby HCN (Zyclon-B) may be made to become instantly gaseous >> upon exposure to air." >> >> CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER >> >> Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower >> outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that >> Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that >> anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also >> quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page >> 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming >> stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they >> would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth is >> that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and fleas >> which carry typhus. >> >> THE PROBLEM OF THE CREMATORIUMS >> >> At the Auschwitz I camp there were only 6 crematory ovens. At the >> hospital in Auschwitz II there are 46 single cremators. In the Lubin camp >> there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these three camps 3 to 4 million Jews >> were supposed to have been exterminated and their bodies cremated. Also, >> these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' doors and a time >> period of from 4 to 6 hours burning for each body using a large amount of >> coal. Cremation for those who passed away was used in the camps to >> prevent epidemics. Also, no large supplies of coal were ever stored at >> the camps for cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears only in the >> German edition of William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the >> Third Reich." It seems the Didler-Werke Company, which built the >> crematory ovens, sued Shirer who previously wrote that millions of people >> were gassed and then burned in this company's ovens. In an out-of-court >> settlement of the suit Shirer agreed to add the following footnote on >> page 972 of the German edition: "The Didler-Werke have raised objection >> to the name of their firm appearing in the chapter concerning the >> extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor of engineering in a >> statement of Aug. 1961 established that the measurements are those which >> are standard for a crematory oven of not very modern design intended for >> small cemeteries and would be unsuitable for mass burning." WHY IS THIS >> DELETED FROM THE ENGLISH EDITION??? On the question of cremating >> 6,000,000 people - this would leave 15,000 tons of ashes! Such gigantic >> piles of ashes created over the short 2 1/2 year period the holocaust >> supposedly took place would have been very difficult to dispose of. No >> one has ever come forward to report seeing such huge piles of tons of >> ashes. It was not until 1960 that the Soviets opened the Auschwitz camp >> to tourists and independent investigators. No gas chamber could be found. >> The official answer was that it was "taken to another camp for gassings >> and then later went into oblivion!" >> >> WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST >> >> Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, eminent historian, ... >> >> read more >> > > > > CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER > > > Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower > outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that > Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that > anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also > quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page > 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming > stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they > would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth > is that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and > fleas which carry typhus. > > > You fucking moron; commit suicide or die accidentally. Zyklon was > dropped on the floor from an overhead vent and it killed people at > floor level first; the victims knew this and tried to climb on top as > the gas rised. The whole process took 15-20 minutes to kill everybody. > Infant skulls and the weaker victims were crushed on the bottom; > people had their ears and noses bit off; there was menstrual blood, > shit and other bodily fluids. There were huge bruises. > > Michael Ragland > > I am sorry, I get it now. Zyklon was dropped in a solid state, like a brick or a rock. I thought it was gas. Also how couldn't I know that it is easier to climb above the crowd if you bit someone on the ear or a nose. I would think nose would be a better choice, probably some of the victims tried to stand on others noses. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:22 EST 2007 Article: 1234416 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234416 soc.culture.israel:1663346 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel References: <2ncam3pick100r2stmuk7viui426280t3d@4ax.com> <4ac75185-1ea2-49c6-a90c-f49c24f16f89@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Conclusive proof that "Cramer" is a forger Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197863083 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:44:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:44:43 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:44:43 GMT "BTov" wrote in message news:4ac75185-1ea2-49c6-a90c-f49c24f16f89@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 11:35 pm, "Snow" wrote: >> "drahcir" wrote in message >> >> news:2ncam3pick100r2stmuk7viui426280t3d@4ax.com... >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:08:42 +0000 (UTC), RJ111 >> > wrote: >> >> >> Look at Message-ID: , >> >>in which "Cramer" asserts to post the content of the article >> >>"Cold Reminder", NY Times, Dec. 3 1994. >> >> >> Unfortunately for him, the NYT archives are now >> >>free. As everyone can easily check by visiting >> >>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DB1F30F930A35751..., >> >>the article "Cramer" posted has nothing to do with the >> >>actual article. >> >> >> To make matters worse for "Cramer", even his sidekick >> >>"floresrikitic" wrote that "anyone with room temp IQ" would >> >>realize that the article was not taken from the NY Times >> >>(Message-ID: <1182105152.976473.83...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>). >> >> >>RJ. >> >> > Good catch. >> >> wow, such a good catch. u want noble prize for that- > > u never get noble prize in literatures for write like that! > b'wahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!! > > btov > haifa, israel You probably right, perhaps an Oscar shalom From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:22 EST 2007 Article: 1234418 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234418 soc.culture.usa:2067348 soc.culture.canada:595352 soc.history.what-if:737944 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197863567 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:52:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:52:47 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:52:47 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:x5WdnR74iOCwRPjanZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@giganews.com... > Snow wrote: >> >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >>>> In article , >>>> Sara Salzman wrote: >>>> >>>> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >>>> >>>>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>>>> "confession." >>>>> >>>>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails he >>>>> claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>>>> >>>>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the >>>>> law. >>>>> >>>>> So there are only two choices here: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>>>> or >>>>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>>>> >>>>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break the >>>>> law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag that he >>>>> had broken the law? >>>>> >>>>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>>>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. >>>>> Why would anyone believe an admitted liar? >>>> >>>> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be BOTH, >>>> TL. >>> >>> True. >>> >>> I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he >>> hacked into my computer. >>> >>> And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued the >>> ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. >>> >>> And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went off >>> into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. >>> >>> Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >>>> >>>> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in dispute. >> >> >> I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge to >> break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit >> Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he hacked >> your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do you >> believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any proof >> that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, apparently a >> known liar. > > Do I honestly think Irving hacked into my computer? Of course not. > Especially since he announced that "next time Sara should get a > Macintosh," and that is exactly what I was using. I don't think he has the > computer savvy. > > What I *do* think is that Irving is such a liar and pompous ass that > instead of saying "Someone sent me a copy of Sara's email," he had to lie > about it. > > Yes, Irving is a tremendous liar. That he would "admit" to committing a > felony just to show off only shows how completely insane he is. > > Hope that helps. > > -Sara I am thinking the same that Irving couldn't hack anything. I doubt he is clever enough to find a hacker who would hack it for him for money, he wouldn't know where to start looking for hackers. So the questions remains how is that your email became public. Its either that someone had physical access to your computer, you installed a backdoor which someone had to provide it to you as a file, or you posted the email yourself or one of your colleagues posted it somewhere. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:22 EST 2007 Article: 1234420 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234420 soc.culture.usa:2067349 soc.culture.canada:595353 soc.history.what-if:737945 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_qm9j.80517$Um6.43186@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197863738 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:55:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:55:38 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNH\KMAVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:55:38 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:apudnWKCaKt4CfnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com... > B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:YcudnR7g8obZ9_nanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >>>> >>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>> news:ivWdnQ6Oaecx0PnanZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>> B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>>>> news:bYKdnThdVciLZv7anZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>>> B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let's get the British bastard! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course Cramer likes this, since I never said anything of the >>>>>>> sort. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not that you can prove. You do love to lie, salzman. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cramer and Irving BOTH believe it's okay to alter other people's >>>>>>> words to suit their own hatred and paranoia. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do we? You seem to be the one using my work to fit your hatred and >>>>>> paranoia. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How emails from a badly leaking laptop scuppered the violent plans >>>>>>>> of the traditional enemies of Free Speech in Colorado >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> How David Irving admitted to hacking into my computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> And where did he admit any such thing? >>>>> >>>>> In his original version of this article, the one he sent out in his >>>>> newsletter, where he used the phrase "hacked a keyhole into her >>>>> computer." >>>> >>>> Did he just? >>>> >>>> And this is evidence he hacked your computer? >>>> >>>> Reverse the roles, salzman. >>>> >>>> I make a claim that you "hacked a keyhole" into my computer. How long >>>> do you suppose that would fly before the shills attacked my claim >>>> asking for "proof?" >>>> >>>> The keenan cunt would no doubt climb on board and tell all and sundry >>>> "hacking" is not easy and that I was lying about the episode. >>>> >>>> The jacobsOn turd would also climb on board, twist a few words here and >>>> there and make out it was I who had hacked you. >>>> >>> >>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>> "confession." >> >> He did not confess to what you accuse him of, lying, exaggerating fat >> slag. > > In his original version of this article, the one he sent out in his > newsletter, where he used the phrase "hacked a keyhole into her computer." >>> >>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails he >>> claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>> >>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the law. >>> >>> So there are only two choices here: >>> >>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>> or >>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>> >>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break the >>> law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag that he >>> had broken the law? >> >> Where did he claim to have "hacked" your computer? I still haven't seen >> him use those words. > > In his original version of this article, the one he sent out in his > newsletter, where he used the phrase "hacked a keyhole into her computer." There is not such a thing as keyhole among hacker community. Obviously Irving is getting his hacking vocabulary NOT from a hacker. Probably one of your colleagues leaked the email and Irving to protect the identity of the leaker came out with his own hacking vocab. > >>> >>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. Why >>> would anyone believe an admitted liar? >> >> You expect us to believe everything you say, lying cunt. > > I asked a simple question. Instead of answering it, you spew more venom > and play dumb. "Where did he say that?" I've now answered that three > times. In his newsletter. Four times. In his newsletter. Five times. > > So did he lie or did he break the law? > > >> >>> >>> No more fantasies about your obsessions with Messers Keenan and >>> Jacobson. Just answer the question: Is Irving a law-breaker or a liar? >> >> What obsessions? It's that pair of turds who are obsessed with me. >> JacobsOn has even adopted half a dozen new nyms in an attempt to trap me >> into responding to him. > > Now THAT'S a lie plain and simple. You've been asked to come up with a > single shred of evidence on this and have completely refused to do so. > > You expect us to believe everything you say, lying Cramer. >> >> Your question is difficult to answer. As difficult as my asking you "Have >> you stopped fisting yourself." > > That's a very easy one. I never started. Never have. Never. > > You'll have to look somewhere else for your sexual fantasies, Mr. Cramer. > I have never done anything of the sort. > > So that was easy. Now answer whether Irving lied or broke the law, hmm? > >> >> You really need to question the loyalty of some of those whom you place >> your trust in. > > Huh? >> >> People like you, who conduct high level hate campaigns, cannot surely >> expect to be immune from infiltration of your groups. Surely you're not >> stupid enough to believe everyone who claims to be with you, is with you? >> > Group? I have no group, Mr. Cramer. That's another of your fantasies. > Well, yours and David Irving's. My "group" consisted of my, my husband, > and my son. I sure wouldn't call that a "group," and I wouldn't call it a > "gang of thugs," as Irving did. > > He's got quite a vivid imagination, does David Irving. But then, he's > always been prone to exaggeration. And lying. > > So, what is this "group" that was "infiltrated," Mr. Cramer? > >> >> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless Cramer can explain how Irving would know what was supposedly >>>>>>> on my computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would suggest one of your own had a big mouth, salzman. You have >>>>>> used "moles" to gain information, therefore it is quite likely Irving >>>>>> had "moles" within your organisation. >>>>>> >>>>>> I suppose that possibility has never occurred to you? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for posting this! It shows the desperation of both of you. >>>>>> >>>>>> It does nothing of the sort. It perfectly portrays the lengths you >>>>>> and your thugs will to go to in order you silence any and all >>>>>> criticism of your precious Holocaut(tm). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DENVER Jewess Sara Salzman (below) was the brain behind plans for >>>>>>>> the disruption of Mr Irving's December 22, 2003 visit to the city. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In doing so, she risked federal prosecution for conspiring to >>>>>>>> violate the civil rights of his audience. As a Holocaust >>>>>>>> professional and webmaster (she has claimed that her Holocaust >>>>>>>> website gets Six Million "hits" each month) she expected to get >>>>>>>> away with it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Her gang laid plans in several directions. All failed. One of the >>>>>>>> earlier, less violent projects was to infiltrate into the audience >>>>>>>> her husband, whom she described as a big -- i.e., obese -- man, and >>>>>>>> have him purchase an Irving book; he would then produce the >>>>>>>> cancelled check to claim that the British historian was "violating >>>>>>>> his visa status." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Her computer records show that she sent over fifty emails to Denver >>>>>>>> Jewish groups asking for support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Most responded cautiously, asking what Abe Foxman's Anti-Defamation >>>>>>>> League was doing about the visit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The answer was, nothing. The ADL had burnt its fingers badly when >>>>>>>> it authorized illegal wiretaps on a Colorado couple and publicly >>>>>>>> smeared them as anti-Semites. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A Denver court ordered the ADL to pay $9.75 million in libel >>>>>>>> damages; the organisation's appeal was dismissed in April 2003. >>>>>>>> Even for an organization as wealthy as the ADL (annual budget, $50 >>>>>>>> million) that kind of award hurts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They were not keen to fetch Salzman's chestnuts out of the fire, if >>>>>>>> she deliberately provoked trouble in Denver. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sara's chief accomplice was a former New York City cop and jailer, >>>>>>>> Rich Miller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She emailed him frequent updates on the plan, with headings like: >>>>>>>> "T-minus 13 days to Irving." The ex-cop would reply to her, "All is >>>>>>>> going well at my end." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To journalist Dani Newsum, left, who had written a particularly >>>>>>>> nasty OpEd piece in the Denver Post headed "NAZI SWILL, COMING >>>>>>>> SOON," Sara also fed this information: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We've got a minimum of ninety people who will be demonstrating in >>>>>>>> front of the (as-yet-undisclosed) location. If anyone has any media >>>>>>>> contacts, especially with the local TV stations or Fox, please let >>>>>>>> me know. I will be working this week on contacting various media >>>>>>>> folks. I'd especially like to reach Peter Boyles at KHOW and Enid >>>>>>>> Goldstein at KNRC (radio), and anyone at the TV stations." >>>>>>>> As the organised efforts to undermine Mr Irving's lecture tour -- >>>>>>>> on the comparisons between World War II and the war in Iraq -- >>>>>>>> began to bite, from Las Vegas onwards, Salzman gloated: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good news from the front lines: Irving was supposed to speak in >>>>>>>> Seattle on Monday night. He announced the location, the Pyramid >>>>>>>> Brewery, and one of the members of Holocaust Project wrote a letter >>>>>>>> to the location. >>>>>>>> Showing where she expected most of her support to come from, >>>>>>>> Salzman left stacks of pamphlets at Denver's Jewish gift shops. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On December 15, with five days to go, her leaky laptop received >>>>>>>> this message from her ex-cop friend, announcing that he and his >>>>>>>> squad would be ready for action on Saturday. They were evidently >>>>>>>> expecting violence: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Things are warm and heating up quickly. We are prepared and ready >>>>>>>> for the event on Saturday. Our group of four will be equipped with >>>>>>>> cameras, signs, FirstAid supplies, water, and snacks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WORRIED about what she called "a mole in her ranks," that day the >>>>>>>> Holocaust-obsessed Sara had another mole -- "Michael Wilde" -- >>>>>>>> send this message to Mr Irving: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I saw the article in Westword magazine and I'm real interested in >>>>>>>> hearing your talk. We read about the Holocaust in school, but I >>>>>>>> can't believe all the stuff we were told. Will you be saying >>>>>>>> anything about it? >>>>>>>> Wilde's application failed to make the genuine guest list for >>>>>>>> Denver, because it failed certain criteria. Sara's keyboard >>>>>>>> handiwork confirmed this decision. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ("In cases like these," Mr Irving proposed to the Denver organizer, >>>>>>>> "we find the address of a gay bar and send the suspects to wait >>>>>>>> there all evening.") >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mr Irving sent "Wilde" a standard reply, but added that he was not >>>>>>>> talking about the Holocaust, and had never written about it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No matter. Irving had to be silenced. Sara hammered out this >>>>>>>> message on her keyboard to her conspirators: "We're in the loop." >>>>>>>> (She added a surly comment: "Interesting that Mr. Irving can afford >>>>>>>> a tollfree cell phone number in US.") >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Meanwhile she sent a wad of leaflets to the Denver TV and radio >>>>>>>> stations, her fingers busily typing out more lying smears on her >>>>>>>> porous keyboard: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Irving, an anti-American [sic], anti-Semitic, Holocaust >>>>>>>> denier, will be speaking here, and there will be a group protesting >>>>>>>> his visit. Information about this protest has been reported in Dani >>>>>>>> Newsum's Blog 'Nazi Swill is coming to town'. >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, Mr. Irving (to reduce the possibility of press >>>>>>>> coverage [sic]) will not announce the location of his talk until a >>>>>>>> day or two before. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Risking a final libellous smear, Salzman added: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Irving's followers are the same kinds of people as those who >>>>>>>> killed Alan Berg. It's vital that we let him know he is not welcome >>>>>>>> in Denver. Sara Salzman 303-617-9412. >>>>>>>> Meanwhile she had learned from "Michael Wilde" that he had asked Mr >>>>>>>> Irving by email: "Do you have a place yet for your talk?" To their >>>>>>>> delight, the author had answered ("currently on the road in >>>>>>>> Wyoming") -- less than frankly, as it would turn out -- "Yes, north >>>>>>>> Denver, and you will be informed later today." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That confirmed what they already "knew," because he had a inserted >>>>>>>> a fake line to that effect at the end of the Moscow Daily News >>>>>>>> report posted on his website, namely that he would be speaking >>>>>>>> somewhere near the new Denver International Airport. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IT WAS now D-Day minus 1 -- Friday, December 19, 2003. Sara Salzman >>>>>>>> typed this report at 11:16 a.m.: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Irving has posted an article on his web site. . . The last sentence >>>>>>>> says: 'Irving speaks at a hotel near Denver airport on Saturday.' >>>>>>>> If anyone wants to start calling hotels near the airport and ask if >>>>>>>> someone with the initials "A.H." has booked a conference room for a >>>>>>>> meal and lecture, please feel free! Sara." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She received confirmation from a fellow plotter that the most >>>>>>>> recent update was "somewhere near the airport." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She congratulated him: "We're getting closer. My husband is going >>>>>>>> to call Irving's cell phone after 3:00 p.m. today." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mr Irving's phone registered an incoming "no caller ID" call at >>>>>>>> 3:10 p.m. -- but the call did not reach him in Wyoming. She and >>>>>>>> her plotters had to rely on their wits, and on her leaky laptop. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Late on that Friday evening, Mr Irving sealed the Denver plotters' >>>>>>>> fate with this message to their mole "Michael Wilde": >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is tomorrow Saturday's location by email: please keep it under >>>>>>>> your hat. Tell no-one. We have booked a room at the Denver >>>>>>>> International Airport Marriott (the actual address, if you're >>>>>>>> coming by taxi, is 16455 East 40th Circle). >>>>>>>> The Marriott Corp have never let us down yet (as you know we have >>>>>>>> just held our fourth international Real History weekend at their >>>>>>>> Cincinnati airport location) so they don't bow to pressure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We have asked the hotel to deny any afternoon function taking >>>>>>>> place. The booking is under a less than obvious name, as you will >>>>>>>> see when you arrive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suggest you come between twelve and one, when I shall arrive; >>>>>>>> we'll have a meal and then I will talk. Looking forward to seeing >>>>>>>> y'all there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 1:35 a.m. Sara sat at her lap-top and hammered out a new message >>>>>>>> to her gang. She quoted Irving's message to "Wilde," then finalized >>>>>>>> their plans: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So here's what I suggest: We all meet in the parking lot of the >>>>>>>> Marriott. Since Irving isn't going to be there until one, we don't >>>>>>>> want to clue him in too early. So let's meet around 11:15-11:30. >>>>>>>> Our person taking pictures will have to be in the lobby of the >>>>>>>> hotel, since lots of other people will be coming and going. One of >>>>>>>> us will go in and scope it out, figure out which "room" Irving has >>>>>>>> rented (my guess is under a name with the initials A.H.), and then >>>>>>>> our photographer can stake out a place to take pictures that isn't >>>>>>>> too obvious . . . otherwise the hotel will toss us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Referring to the ex-cop Rich Miller, she suggested: "Rich, I'm >>>>>>>> sure, can fill us in on what's 'legal' to do. . . . Let's get the >>>>>>>> British bastard!! Sara." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She then switched off her laptop, and turned in for the night, >>>>>>>> while dreams of sweet violence danced in her head. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At ten on Saturday morning, the big day, she issued final "legal >>>>>>>> advice" to her gang, provided by "our legal advisor at the >>>>>>>> Holocaust Project," on what to do if they fell foul of the law and >>>>>>>> whether to comply with the Marriott's order that they leave: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My own answer to a security guard is 'Call the police and have them >>>>>>>> tell me that' and answer that you are 'Exercising your >>>>>>>> constitutional rights.' >>>>>>>> This puts on record what happened and what is involved. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Second, it puts it in an area where the wimps at the >>>>>>>> Anti-Defamation League and the nutballs at the American Civil >>>>>>>> Liberties Union can, if either decides to get off their fat asses, >>>>>>>> intervene in a meaningful way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The next day, she and her ("big") husband got "off their asses." >>>>>>>> When they downloaded her emails on Saturday morning, ex-cop Rich >>>>>>>> Miller had already sent in his own take on the forthcoming >>>>>>>> confrontation: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let us give this racist, Nazi, Hitler lover, and Jew-hater a big >>>>>>>> Colorado unwelcome. >>>>>>>> The weather will be perfect, the location is ideal, and our cause >>>>>>>> is moral. See you all at The Marriott Hotel at approximately 11:30 >>>>>>>> AM today. The Marriott Hotel is located off Interstate 70, Exit >>>>>>>> 285, Airport Blvd. North. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you need better directions, please call the Marriott at >>>>>>>> 303-371-4333. Please do not mention David Irving. We do not want to >>>>>>>> give him a heads up as to what we have planned.-Rich. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:23 EST 2007 Article: 1234709 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234709 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: Subject: Re: Document: Proof of SS taking extraordinary measures to rid camps of disease caused by putrifying corpses Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197940024 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:07:04 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:07:04 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BZMVMHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:07:04 GMT "Phillip Martin" wrote in message news:npednZf5tPrpfPvanZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@giganews.com... > http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/aug2-3.shtml > > -PM > loading stoves for the heat for the barracks. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:24 EST 2007 Article: 1234713 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234713 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Holocaust Summary. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197940774 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:19:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:19:34 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:19:34 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Snow wrote: >>-=-=-=-=-=- >> >>So let me get this straight. >>The soap made out of Jews is not true. > > http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/soap-01.html Back in the day soap was made out of bones, usually animal bones but the labs also experimented with humans as they do now. But it didn’t happen in any work camp, neither did it happen in mass quantities. So you can shove your Danzig lab example up your ass. > >>Lamp shade skin out of Jews is not true. > > http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html This is just funny. There is no evidence or proof that work camps victims were skinned and used to lamp shades. Just because some lamp shade had a tattoo design on it doesn’t mean it came from a Jewish prisoner in work camp. Besides many well respected scholars, way above your league, admitted such things didn’t occur. > >>There were never geysers of blood from children What about geysers of blood and distinguishable smoke? Do you have anything for that? I am sure you can come up with something. > > Are you sure you want to go with this, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow? > > Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention > inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you > the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions > with documentary evidence. > > Question 1: > > On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: > , > you made the claim: > > 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. > > http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - > > Please document your claim or retract it. > > Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: > > "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." > > Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal > gassings are a "myth." > > Question 3: > > On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they > could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to > whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." > > Please document these claims or retract them. > > Question 4: > > On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated > that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." > > Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which > I made such a statement. > > Question 5: > > In article , > > you wrote: > > "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free > speech > rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the > teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as > "Revisionism" -- and won." > > Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" > as > you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: > > Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, > Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. > In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then > 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting > hatred against an identifiable group by communicating > anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by > a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of > Queen's Bench. > > Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil > qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as > ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', > ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He > taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy > Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, > chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews > ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast > to the open and honest Christians, were said to be > deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra > expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class > and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. > > Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of > Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on > a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of > the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of > expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among > the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the > defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates > the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was > dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter > tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the > Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. > The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and > it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. > > The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, > Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, > Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, > Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund > (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the > Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has > intervened in support of striking down the impugned > legislation. > > Question 6: > > In article , you wrote: > > "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written > by > Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all > "Holocaust > supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. > > Question 7: > > On July 30, 2007, you wrote: > > "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi > Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't > deal directly with Nazi Germany. > > "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy > companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people > didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." > > Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" > involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank > owners." > > Question 8: > > On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust > supporting > articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a > comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their > authors, > and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by > Jewish organizations." > > Question 9: > > On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members > who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are > the forefront of such edits." > > Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews > being in the "forefront of such edits." > > Question 10: > > On August 5, 2007, you wrote: > >>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ > > ...and... > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we > find, shall we? > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the > Polish > Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary > Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination > Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of > their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting > and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five > hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of > the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such > as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, > Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 > we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates > were gassed at Maidanek." > > (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow > notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, > he is lying - again.) > > The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar > (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* > were murdered there. > > The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek > written by > Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed > through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, > sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, > hanging, > or being shot." > > Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims > were Jews. > > Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: > > "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article > (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the > transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd > appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to > determine > if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, > now tha they have been exposed. > > Question 11: > > In article , on August 15, > 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a > pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." > > Please document when and where any of my children have > made such statements or admit you cannot. > > Question 12: > > In article , posted on > August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: > > "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." > > Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. > > If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all > means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, > in and of itself, a crime. > > -- > The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource > David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment > http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html > http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:24 EST 2007 Article: 1234714 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234714 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <6rF9j.83932$YL5.40551@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197941570 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:32:50 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:32:50 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZUDUWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:32:50 GMT wrote in message news:a9d77fa0-3539-493a-9c8d-2244b0cb1e89@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 7:43 pm, "Snow" wrote: >> wrote in message >> >> news:2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> >> > On Dec 16, 5:43 pm, "Snow" wrote: >> >> WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? >> >> >> By Dr. E. R. Fields >> >> >> The Holocaust has become the greatest instrument of sympathy which any >> >> nation has ever been able to use to gain support for wars, expansion >> >> and >> >> foreign-aid: This has made Israel the world's sixth strongest military >> >> power. The gravest threat to all this wealth and influence is the >> >> growing >> >> doubt over the question of whether or not a real holocaust of 6 >> >> million >> >> Jews actual took place. >> >> >> NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >> >> >> The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >> >> population was 15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the >> >> American Jewish Committee. Nest the Jewish owned New York Times of >> >> Feb. >> >> 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to >> >> 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in the addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 >> >> living >> >> in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly >> >> over >> >> the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people? With the rise of >> >> Hitler >> >> to power there were no more than 4 million Jews at the most living in >> >> areas occupied by the Third Reich at the height of its power. On June >> >> 30, >> >> 1965, the West German government announced that some 3,375,000 Jewish >> >> holocaust "survivors" had applied for reparations money. The Red Cross >> >> reported in 1946 that of registered Jewish camp inmates no more than >> >> 300,000 could have died. It is interesting to note that in the Jews >> >> real >> >> "bible", The Talmud, it is claimed that 800,000 Jews were slaughtered >> >> by >> >> the Romans in Hadrians era. Yet there is no historical evidence >> >> supporting this claim. The Jewish owned New York Times, in 1945 >> >> carried >> >> an article by the well known Jewish writer C.L. Sulzberger. It openly >> >> stated Soviet Russia supplied the figure of 4 million Jews having been >> >> put to death "in the gas chambers of Auschwitz." Thus it was the >> >> communists and the Jews who initially originated these figures which >> >> today are accepted as "gospel truth". It is claimed that from 1934 to >> >> 1945 some 50,000 people died in the huge Bergen-Belsen camp. This >> >> count >> >> is considered exaggerated, still Time Magazine reports that of this >> >> figure 20,000 died of typhus during the single month of March, 1945! >> >> If >> >> nearly half died of this plague in just one month at the end of the >> >> war >> >> there is no way Bergen-Belsen could have been an "extermination camp". >> >> >> HIMMLER-"REDUCE DEATHS AT ALL COSTS" >> >> >> Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Concentration Camps issued orders on >> >> Dec. >> >> 28, 1942, that "The death rate in the concentration camps must be >> >> reduced >> >> at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, "The Final Solution.") The >> >> camps had been hit with a deadly typhus epidemic that spread by fleas >> >> and >> >> body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and death can quickly >> >> follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss of workers was >> >> hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks >> >> responded >> >> to Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will be used to lower >> >> the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document No. 1523.) On >> >> April 10, 1943, Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic Administration >> >> Office >> >> of the camps issued a letter stating that persons with tuberculosis >> >> were >> >> being sent to the camps resulting in the "shockingly high mortality >> >> figures." (Source: Nuremberg Documents.) Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl >> >> was able to show that the camp death rate had been reduced from 8.5% >> >> in >> >> July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The German SS arrested Buchenwald >> >> Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for mistreating and even executing some >> >> prisoners. After an investigation Koch was found guilty by SS Judge >> >> Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this sound like a policy of >> >> "extermination?" >> >> With suspicion rapidly rising about the holocaust claim a committee of >> >> Jewish leaders from New York and Paris met with communist leaders in >> >> Warsaw. There they established the "Committee for the Investigation of >> >> War Crimes and War Criminals". It was after this meeting that the >> >> announcement was made that all gas chambers were located in Poland. >> >> >> THE PROBLEMS OF MASS GASSING >> >> >> In 1945 it was announced that gas death chambers existed in all >> >> concentration camps in Poland, Germany, Austria and Alsace. Some 15 >> >> years >> >> later, in 1960, this was revised to the new claim that gas chambers >> >> existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland. Simon Weisenthal >> >> of >> >> the Los Angeles Holocaust center states in the paper, "Books and >> >> Bookmen", April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any camp on >> >> German soil." The pressure had been growing since The Vatican, Red >> >> Cross, >> >> English Intelligence and German Intelligence chiefs Canaris and Oster >> >> (who collaborated with the British) either did not know or believe in >> >> rumors of gassings. >> >> >> This brings up the following questions. 1) Germans are meticulous >> >> record >> >> keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas >> >> chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims. >> >> 2) >> >> There have been thousands on investigations of alleged Nazi war >> >> criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of >> >> being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either >> >> side >> >> has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed-AND THERE ARE >> >> SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! 3) Photos of bodies >> >> at >> >> Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and >> >> malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus. 4) The Vatican and >> >> Red >> >> Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the >> >> war >> >> about alleged gas chambers. the response was always the same, "The >> >> detainees themselves have not spoken of them." (From the Red Cross >> >> document No. 9925, June 1946.) >> >> >> FORCED CONFESSIONS OF GASSINGS >> >> >> Rudoft Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. >> >> captured >> >> by the Soviets they extracted a confession to mass gassings using >> >> Zyclon-B gas. Such "confessions" are about as reliable as any forced >> >> by >> >> Stalin from victims tortured before taking the stand to confess during >> >> the Moscow show trials of 1936. The communists wrote the "Confession' >> >> and >> >> Hoess signed it. Later he was hanged. An assistant commandant refused >> >> to >> >> sign-he died in his cell. Hoess statement read, "half an hour after >> >> having released the gas, they opened the door and started the >> >> ventilation >> >> machines. They began immediately to extract the bodies while eating >> >> and >> >> smoking." Was Hoess trying to get a message across that there were no >> >> gassing? Zyclon-B is not "ventable". The manufacturers state Zyclon-B >> >> adheres to surface clothing and skin. They say that only after a 24 >> >> hour >> >> period, wearing a gas mask with the strongest filter, could any bodies >> >> be >> >> removed without killing such workers. If we believe the Hoess >> >> confession >> >> that the workers ran into the gas chamber "eating and smoking" - >> >> without >> >> gas masks - only minutes after the gassing - IF THIS OCCURRED ALL >> >> WOULD >> >> HAVE DIED! >> >> >> GAS STORIES NOT POSSIBLE >> >> >> The Jew Mosche Pearlmann in his book, "The Capture and Trial of Adolph >> >> Eichmann" pages 375 and 385 states Zyclon-B crystals were introduced >> >> from >> >> the ceilings of the gas chambers and "became immediately gaseous." The >> >> American Cyanamid Co. of Linden N.J. states: "We know of no chemical >> >> process whereby HCN (Zyclon-B) may be made to become instantly gaseous >> >> upon exposure to air." >> >> >> CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER >> >> >> Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower >> >> outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that >> >> Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that >> >> anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also >> >> quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page >> >> 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming >> >> stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they >> >> would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth >> >> is >> >> that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and fleas >> >> which carry typhus. >> >> >> THE PROBLEM OF THE CREMATORIUMS >> >> >> At the Auschwitz I camp there were only 6 crematory ovens. At the >> >> hospital in Auschwitz II there are 46 single cremators. In the Lubin >> >> camp >> >> there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these three camps 3 to 4 million >> >> Jews >> >> were supposed to have been exterminated and their bodies cremated. >> >> Also, >> >> these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' doors and a time >> >> period of from 4 to 6 hours burning for each body using a large amount >> >> of >> >> coal. Cremation for those who passed away was used in the camps to >> >> prevent epidemics. Also, no large supplies of coal were ever stored at >> >> the camps for cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears only in the >> >> German edition of William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the >> >> Third Reich." It seems the Didler-Werke Company, which built the >> >> crematory ovens, sued Shirer who previously wrote that millions of >> >> people >> >> were gassed and then burned in this company's ovens. In an >> >> out-of-court >> >> settlement of the suit Shirer agreed to add the following footnote on >> >> page 972 of the German edition: "The Didler-Werke have raised >> >> objection >> >> to the name of their firm appearing in the chapter concerning the >> >> extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor of engineering in a >> >> statement of Aug. 1961 established that the measurements are those >> >> which >> >> are standard for a crematory oven of not very modern design intended >> >> for >> >> small cemeteries and would be unsuitable for mass burning." WHY IS >> >> THIS >> >> DELETED FROM THE ENGLISH EDITION??? On the question of cremating >> >> 6,000,000 people - this would leave 15,000 tons of ashes! Such >> >> gigantic >> >> piles of ashes created over the short 2 1/2 year period the holocaust >> >> supposedly took place would have been very difficult to dispose of. No >> >> one has ever come forward to report seeing such huge piles of tons of >> >> ashes. It was not until 1960 that the Soviets opened the Auschwitz >> >> camp >> >> to tourists and independent investigators. No gas chamber could be >> >> found. >> >> The official answer was that it was "taken to another camp for >> >> gassings >> >> and then later went into oblivion!" >> >> >> WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST >> >> >> Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, eminent historian, ... >> >> >> read more >> >> >> > CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER >> >> > Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower >> > outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that >> > Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that >> > anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also >> > quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page >> > 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming >> > stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they >> > would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth >> > is that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and >> > fleas which carry typhus. >> >> > You fucking moron; commit suicide or die accidentally. Zyklon was >> > dropped on the floor from an overhead vent and it killed people at >> > floor level first; the victims knew this and tried to climb on top as >> > the gas rised. The whole process took 15-20 minutes to kill everybody. >> > Infant skulls and the weaker victims were crushed on the bottom; >> > people had their ears and noses bit off; there was menstrual blood, >> > shit and other bodily fluids. There were huge bruises. >> >> > Michael Ragland >> >> I am sorry, I get it now. Zyklon was dropped in a solid state, like a >> brick >> or a rock. I thought it was gas. Also how couldn't I know that it is >> easier >> to climb above the crowd if you bit someone on the ear or a nose. I >> would >> think nose would be a better choice, probably some of the victims tried >> to >> stand on others noses. > > > Listen closely moron; a German wearing a gas mask dropped the just > opened > Zyklon canister and dropped it in through the overhead vent > http://image.hotdog.hu/_data/members1/217/577217/images/ZyklonB.jpg > The gas landed on the floor first rising up. Now get killed. > > Michael Ragland So the victims had to eat these pallets or snort them. Looks like popcorn. even if it emitted an odor. How many kilos of that odor would kill hundred people. Yes McVay says 2000. ROFL, 2000 in one delousing chamber and one small can of some pellets. McVay just shredded me again. OMG. He couldn't shred cheese but I bet old man could pass lots of cheese though. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:25 EST 2007 Article: 1234715 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234715 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <6uF9j.83934$YL5.77924@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197941762 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:36:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:36:02 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRJRQIMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:36:02 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:tP-dnWTDkO10i_vanZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d@giganews.com... > > wrote in message > news:2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 5:43 pm, "Snow" wrote: >> WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? >> >> By Dr. E. R. Fields >> >> The Holocaust has become the greatest instrument of sympathy which any >> nation has ever been able to use to gain support for wars, expansion and >> foreign-aid: This has made Israel the world's sixth strongest military >> power. The gravest threat to all this wealth and influence is the growing >> doubt over the question of whether or not a real holocaust of 6 million >> Jews actual took place. >> >> NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >> >> The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >> population was 15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the >> American Jewish Committee. Nest the Jewish owned New York Times of Feb. >> 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to >> 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in the addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living >> in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over >> the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people? With the rise of Hitler >> to power there were no more than 4 million Jews at the most living in >> areas occupied by the Third Reich at the height of its power. On June 30, >> 1965, the West German government announced that some 3,375,000 Jewish >> holocaust "survivors" had applied for reparations money. The Red Cross >> reported in 1946 that of registered Jewish camp inmates no more than >> 300,000 could have died. It is interesting to note that in the Jews real >> "bible", The Talmud, it is claimed that 800,000 Jews were slaughtered by >> the Romans in Hadrians era. Yet there is no historical evidence >> supporting this claim. The Jewish owned New York Times, in 1945 carried >> an article by the well known Jewish writer C.L. Sulzberger. It openly >> stated Soviet Russia supplied the figure of 4 million Jews having been >> put to death "in the gas chambers of Auschwitz." Thus it was the >> communists and the Jews who initially originated these figures which >> today are accepted as "gospel truth". It is claimed that from 1934 to >> 1945 some 50,000 people died in the huge Bergen-Belsen camp. This count >> is considered exaggerated, still Time Magazine reports that of this >> figure 20,000 died of typhus during the single month of March, 1945! If >> nearly half died of this plague in just one month at the end of the war >> there is no way Bergen-Belsen could have been an "extermination camp". >> >> HIMMLER-"REDUCE DEATHS AT ALL COSTS" >> >> Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Concentration Camps issued orders on Dec. >> 28, 1942, that "The death rate in the concentration camps must be reduced >> at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, "The Final Solution.") The >> camps had been hit with a deadly typhus epidemic that spread by fleas and >> body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and death can quickly >> follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss of workers was >> hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks responded >> to Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will be used to lower >> the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document No. 1523.) On >> April 10, 1943, Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic Administration Office >> of the camps issued a letter stating that persons with tuberculosis were >> being sent to the camps resulting in the "shockingly high mortality >> figures." (Source: Nuremberg Documents.) Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl >> was able to show that the camp death rate had been reduced from 8.5% in >> July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The German SS arrested Buchenwald >> Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for mistreating and even executing some >> prisoners. After an investigation Koch was found guilty by SS Judge >> Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this sound like a policy of "extermination?" >> With suspicion rapidly rising about the holocaust claim a committee of >> Jewish leaders from New York and Paris met with communist leaders in >> Warsaw. There they established the "Committee for the Investigation of >> War Crimes and War Criminals". It was after this meeting that the >> announcement was made that all gas chambers were located in Poland. >> >> THE PROBLEMS OF MASS GASSING >> >> In 1945 it was announced that gas death chambers existed in all >> concentration camps in Poland, Germany, Austria and Alsace. Some 15 years >> later, in 1960, this was revised to the new claim that gas chambers >> existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland. Simon Weisenthal of >> the Los Angeles Holocaust center states in the paper, "Books and >> Bookmen", April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any camp on >> German soil." The pressure had been growing since The Vatican, Red Cross, >> English Intelligence and German Intelligence chiefs Canaris and Oster >> (who collaborated with the British) either did not know or believe in >> rumors of gassings. >> >> This brings up the following questions. 1) Germans are meticulous record >> keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any gas >> chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed victims. 2) >> There have been thousands on investigations of alleged Nazi war >> criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused of >> being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either side >> has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed-AND THERE ARE >> SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! 3) Photos of bodies at >> Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and >> malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus. 4) The Vatican and Red >> Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the war >> about alleged gas chambers. the response was always the same, "The >> detainees themselves have not spoken of them." (From the Red Cross >> document No. 9925, June 1946.) >> >> FORCED CONFESSIONS OF GASSINGS >> >> Rudoft Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. captured >> by the Soviets they extracted a confession to mass gassings using >> Zyclon-B gas. Such "confessions" are about as reliable as any forced by >> Stalin from victims tortured before taking the stand to confess during >> the Moscow show trials of 1936. The communists wrote the "Confession' and >> Hoess signed it. Later he was hanged. An assistant commandant refused to >> sign-he died in his cell. Hoess statement read, "half an hour after >> having released the gas, they opened the door and started the ventilation >> machines. They began immediately to extract the bodies while eating and >> smoking." Was Hoess trying to get a message across that there were no >> gassing? Zyclon-B is not "ventable". The manufacturers state Zyclon-B >> adheres to surface clothing and skin. They say that only after a 24 hour >> period, wearing a gas mask with the strongest filter, could any bodies be >> removed without killing such workers. If we believe the Hoess confession >> that the workers ran into the gas chamber "eating and smoking" - without >> gas masks - only minutes after the gassing - IF THIS OCCURRED ALL WOULD >> HAVE DIED! >> >> GAS STORIES NOT POSSIBLE >> >> The Jew Mosche Pearlmann in his book, "The Capture and Trial of Adolph >> Eichmann" pages 375 and 385 states Zyclon-B crystals were introduced from >> the ceilings of the gas chambers and "became immediately gaseous." The >> American Cyanamid Co. of Linden N.J. states: "We know of no chemical >> process whereby HCN (Zyclon-B) may be made to become instantly gaseous >> upon exposure to air." >> >> CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER >> >> Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower >> outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that >> Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that >> anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also >> quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page >> 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming >> stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they >> would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth is >> that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and fleas >> which carry typhus. >> >> THE PROBLEM OF THE CREMATORIUMS >> >> At the Auschwitz I camp there were only 6 crematory ovens. At the >> hospital in Auschwitz II there are 46 single cremators. In the Lubin camp >> there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these three camps 3 to 4 million Jews >> were supposed to have been exterminated and their bodies cremated. Also, >> these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' doors and a time >> period of from 4 to 6 hours burning for each body using a large amount of >> coal. Cremation for those who passed away was used in the camps to >> prevent epidemics. Also, no large supplies of coal were ever stored at >> the camps for cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears only in the >> German edition of William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and Fall of the >> Third Reich." It seems the Didler-Werke Company, which built the >> crematory ovens, sued Shirer who previously wrote that millions of people >> were gassed and then burned in this company's ovens. In an out-of-court >> settlement of the suit Shirer agreed to add the following footnote on >> page 972 of the German edition: "The Didler-Werke have raised objection >> to the name of their firm appearing in the chapter concerning the >> extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor of engineering in a >> statement of Aug. 1961 established that the measurements are those which >> are standard for a crematory oven of not very modern design intended for >> small cemeteries and would be unsuitable for mass burning." WHY IS THIS >> DELETED FROM THE ENGLISH EDITION??? On the question of cremating >> 6,000,000 people - this would leave 15,000 tons of ashes! Such gigantic >> piles of ashes created over the short 2 1/2 year period the holocaust >> supposedly took place would have been very difficult to dispose of. No >> one has ever come forward to report seeing such huge piles of tons of >> ashes. It was not until 1960 that the Soviets opened the Auschwitz camp >> to tourists and independent investigators. No gas chamber could be found. >> The official answer was that it was "taken to another camp for gassings >> and then later went into oblivion!" >> >> WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST >> >> Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, eminent historian, ... >> >> read more >> > > > > CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER > > > BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH > > Shirer was in bed with the fucking yids, michael m'dear. > > He was outed for being a pro-yid communist, you tooler. > > > > > > Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower > outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that > Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that > anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also > quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page > 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming > stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they > would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth > is that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and > fleas which carry typhus. > > > You fucking moron; commit suicide or die accidentally. Zyklon was > dropped on the floor from an overhead vent and it killed people at > floor level first; the victims knew this and tried to climb on top as > the gas rised. The whole process took 15-20 minutes to kill everybody. > Infant skulls and the weaker victims were crushed on the bottom; > people had their ears and noses bit off; there was menstrual blood, > shit and other bodily fluids. There were huge bruises. > > Michael Ragland > > > Looking at the picture of Cyclone B that looks like popcorn how do you squeeze it through a showerhead. How many people killed at once. took 15 minutes to kill 2000 people as McVay claims there were that many. From how many pounds of Zyclon B . Nothings adds up here. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:26 EST 2007 Article: 1234716 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234716 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <%Ep9j.8061$UZ4.2310@edtnps89> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03EF_01C840EC.92785BC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <4vF9j.83936$YL5.18691@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197941824 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:37:04 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:37:04 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRJRQIMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:37:04 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03EF_01C840EC.92785BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Grande Mal" wrote in message = news:%Ep9j.8061$UZ4.2310@edtnps89... "Snow" wrote in message = news:cvk9j.31774$JD.3118@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net... WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?=20 By Dr. E. R. Fields=20 The Holocaust has become the greatest instrument of sympathy which = any nation has ever been able to use to gain support for wars, expansion = and foreign-aid: It's been overshadowed in that respect by the 9/11 attacks on the = US. Well every 50 years you need something new. So by the 2050 we should = expect something else.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_03EF_01C840EC.92785BC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Grande Mal" <ironwrkr@hotmail.com> = wrote in=20 message news:%Ep9j.8061$UZ4.2310@edtnp= s89...
 
"Snow" <snowonweb@hotmail.com> = wrote in=20 message news:cvk9j.3= 1774$JD.3118@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...

WAS THERE REALLY A = HOLOCAUST?=20

By Dr. E. R. Fields =

The Holocaust has = become the=20 greatest instrument of sympathy which any nation has ever been able = to use=20 to gain support for wars, expansion and foreign-aid:

 

It's been overshadowed in that = respect by the=20 9/11 attacks on the US.

 

Well every 50 years you need = something new. So=20 by the 2050 we should expect something else.=20


 
------=_NextPart_000_03EF_01C840EC.92785BC0-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:27 EST 2007 Article: 1234717 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.music.rush:631543 alt.fan.adolf-hitler:18262 alt.revisionism:1234717 alt.movies.spielberg:32843 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,alt.fan.adolf-hitler,alt.revisionism,alt.movies.spielberg,alt.fan.clint-eastwood References: <90ddf1a1-5917-4990-a46b-77907b87d341@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: 1936 Olympics everyone wanted Hitler's autograph! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197942002 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:40:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:40:02 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFJYWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:40:02 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:ILudnfQdX6UCtfvanZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:zGi9j.30584$lD6.28478@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "LIBERATOR" wrote in message >> news:90ddf1a1-5917-4990-a46b-77907b87d341@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com... >>> http://www.finalsolution88.com/images/Adolf%20Hitler%20PhotoGallery%20Picture%20033%20of%20100%20(get%20'Adolf%20Hit.jpg >>> >>> These people aren't Germans, they're from the other countries. >>> >>> What does that tell you about his leadership? >> >> >> He was a great leader, great speaker and a great leader, unfortunately >> history books are written by the winners and Hitler lost although his >> legacy lives on. He did a lot for Germany and had a hand in making >> Germany what it is right now, which is a leader in many technological >> breakthroughs and research and development. Unlike Lenin who led his >> country by terror, Hitler led by example. > > Had Hitler won the war, the world would be a much better place. > > There would have been no Cold War, no VietNam, no Iraq war, no Ersatz > israel, no ME conflict, no 911, no ....................................... > It goes on. > You are so right, Cold war wouldn't exist, Communism would disappear. many millions of lives would be saved. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:27 EST 2007 Article: 1234885 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234885 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr29.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com> <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> <13mc0arjd6t0q49@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY HOLOCAUST Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net 1197941136 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:25:36 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:25:36 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:25:36 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mc0arjd6t0q49@corp.supernews.com... > In article <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, > Leading Revisionist Coward Snow wrote: > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article , >>> Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the Connecticut Coward, >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >>>> >>>>The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >>>>population was >>>>15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the American Jewish >>>>Committee. Nest the >>> >>> Alas for poor Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the World Almanac of 1947 >>> *also* clearly >>> states that it's Jewish population figures were taken from PRE-WAR >>> census >>> data. >>> >>> Funny Leading Revisionist Liar Snow hasn't seen fit to mention that. >> >>Funny was your face before you got a haircut. >>http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_Kenneth_McVay.jpg >> >>Don’t shoot the messenger. Its obvious I copied and pasted the article >>unless you are too high to notice that. If you have objections to the >>article feel free to take it out with the article composer Dr. E. R. >>Fields >>which I doubt you will. > > Thank you, Leading Revisionist Scholar Snow, the Coward of Connecticut, > for admitting > that you cut and paste lies. Once again, I admitted to copy and paste the article, You are such a coward that you won't take it out with original composer because you know he will chew your ass and your mumblings. After all he is a Dr. and you are a gas attendant. Feel free to take it out on me though because the article doesn’t fit your Zionist agenda. I am going to do you a big favor and compose an email to Dr. Fields saying NIZKOR directors says its all lies, because you are too afraid to do it, I did for you. > > It really wasn't necessary, however, as your track record procedeth you: > > Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention > inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you > the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions > with documentary evidence. > > Question 1: > > On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: > , > you made the claim: > > 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. > > http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - > > Please document your claim or retract it. > > Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: > > "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." > > Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal > gassings are a "myth." > > Question 3: > > On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they > could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to > whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." > > Please document these claims or retract them. > > Question 4: > > On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated > that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." > > Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which > I made such a statement. > > Question 5: > > In article , > > you wrote: > > "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free > speech > rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the > teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as > "Revisionism" -- and won." > > Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" > as > you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: > > Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, > Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. > In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then > 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting > hatred against an identifiable group by communicating > anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by > a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of > Queen's Bench. > > Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil > qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as > ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', > ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He > taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy > Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, > chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews > ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast > to the open and honest Christians, were said to be > deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra > expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class > and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. > > Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of > Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on > a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of > the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of > expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among > the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the > defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates > the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was > dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter > tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the > Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. > The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and > it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. > > The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, > Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, > Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, > Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund > (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the > Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has > intervened in support of striking down the impugned > legislation. > > Question 6: > > In article , you wrote: > > "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written > by > Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all > "Holocaust > supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. > > Question 7: > > On July 30, 2007, you wrote: > > "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi > Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't > deal directly with Nazi Germany. > > "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy > companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people > didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." > > Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" > involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank > owners." > > Question 8: > > On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust > supporting > articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a > comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their > authors, > and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by > Jewish organizations." > > Question 9: > > On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members > who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are > the forefront of such edits." > > Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews > being in the "forefront of such edits." > > Question 10: > > On August 5, 2007, you wrote: > >>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ > > ...and... > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we > find, shall we? > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the > Polish > Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary > Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination > Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of > their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting > and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five > hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of > the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such > as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, > Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 > we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates > were gassed at Maidanek." > > (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow > notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, > he is lying - again.) > > The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar > (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* > were murdered there. > > The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek > written by > Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed > through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, > sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, > hanging, > or being shot." > > Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims > were Jews. > > Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: > > "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article > (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the > transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd > appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to > determine > if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, > now tha they have been exposed. > > Question 11: > > In article , on August 15, > 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a > pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." > > Please document when and where any of my children have > made such statements or admit you cannot. > > Question 12: > > In article , posted on > August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: > > "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." > > Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. > > If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all > means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, > in and of itself, a crime. > > -- > "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you > people did hang him after that" > (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/ From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:28 EST 2007 Article: 1234899 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234899 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: talking about malestation how about this fun fact. Lines: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0441_01C8414D.03736300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197983247 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:07:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:07:27 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCA[S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RYIBK^RAQFW[ML\THRCKV^GGZKJMGV^^_JSCFFUA_QXFGVSCYRPILH]TRVKC^LSN@DX_HCAFX__@J\DAJBVMY\ZWZCZLPA^MVH_P@\\EOMW\YSXHG__IJQY_@M[A[[AXQ_XDSTAR]\PG]NVAQUVM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:07:27 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0441_01C8414D.03736300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The practice, known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh, involves a = practitioner, or mohel, drawing blood from a child's circumcision wound = by mouth. Last year, three baby boys - including one who died - were known to be = infected with herpes during circumcisions by the same Rockland = County-based rabbi, Yitzchok Fischer, who has since suspended the = practice, officials said. But two new cases of infection - neither of which appears to be = connected to Fischer - have since been reported to the city, causing = Health Commissioner Thomas Frieden to release his letter yesterday. The letter steered away from urging a ban on oral suction, as some have = suggested, and instead focused on trying to educate families about = inherent risks. "To help protect their baby," Frieden wrote, "parents should understand = the risk of metzitzah b'peh - BEFORE the day of the [circumcision], = while there is time to explore other options." ------=_NextPart_000_0441_01C8414D.03736300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The practice, known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh, involves a = practitioner,=20 or mohel, drawing blood from a child's circumcision wound by = mouth.

Last=20 year, three baby boys - including one who died - were known to be = infected with=20 herpes during circumcisions by the same Rockland County-based rabbi, = Yitzchok=20 Fischer, who has since suspended the practice, officials = said.

But two=20 new cases of infection - neither of which appears to be connected to = Fischer -=20 have since been reported to the city, causing Health Commissioner Thomas = Frieden=20 to release his letter yesterday.

The letter steered away from = urging a=20 ban on oral suction, as some have suggested, and instead focused on = trying to=20 educate families about inherent risks.

"To help protect their = baby,"=20 Frieden wrote, "parents should understand the risk of metzitzah b'peh - = BEFORE=20 the day of the [circumcision], while there is time to explore other=20 options."
------=_NextPart_000_0441_01C8414D.03736300-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:28 EST 2007 Article: 1234904 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234904 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com> <13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Holocaust Summary. Lines: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197984146 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:22:26 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:22:26 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZ_MHEQR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:22:26 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:wZqdnUYAXY216vranZ2dnUVZ_o-mnZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message > news:13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com... >> In article , >> Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, a Connecticut Coward, >> wrote: >> >>>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>news:13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com... >>>> In article , >>>> Snow wrote: >>>>>-=-=-=-=-=- >>>>> >>>>>So let me get this straight. >>>>>The soap made out of Jews is not true. >>>> >>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/soap-01.html >> >>>Back in the day soap was made out of bones, usually animal bones but the >>>labs also experimented with humans as they do now. But it didn't happen >>>in >>>any work camp, neither did it happen in mass quantities. So you can shove >>>your Danzig lab example up your ass. >> >> In short, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow concedes that soap was made from >> human remains by >> the NAZIs during WWII. > > On an extremely small, experimental basis, faigelah. > > You turds would have the world believe the Germans had a fucking factory > churning out tonnes of soap on a daily basis. > > You do love to exaggerate, using the most flimsy of evidence. > There is no evidence for neither From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:28 EST 2007 Article: 1234916 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234916 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <6uF9j.83934$YL5.77924@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> <8-ydnVhjNfoP4franZ2dnUVZ_oKhnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197986055 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:54:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:54:15 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:54:15 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:8-ydnVhjNfoP4franZ2dnUVZ_oKhnZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:6uF9j.83934$YL5.77924@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message >> news:tP-dnWTDkO10i_vanZ2dnUVZ_t6onZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >>> wrote in message >>> news:2632b6cd-5a2a-48f5-89e8-2b5e72450098@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >>> On Dec 16, 5:43 pm, "Snow" wrote: >>>> WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST? >>>> >>>> By Dr. E. R. Fields >>>> >>>> The Holocaust has become the greatest instrument of sympathy which any >>>> nation has ever been able to use to gain support for wars, expansion >>>> and foreign-aid: This has made Israel the world's sixth strongest >>>> military power. The gravest threat to all this wealth and influence is >>>> the growing doubt over the question of whether or not a real holocaust >>>> of 6 million Jews actual took place. >>>> >>>> NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >>>> >>>> The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >>>> population was 15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the >>>> American Jewish Committee. Nest the Jewish owned New York Times of Feb. >>>> 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to >>>> 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in the addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 >>>> living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so >>>> rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people? With the >>>> rise of Hitler to power there were no more than 4 million Jews at the >>>> most living in areas occupied by the Third Reich at the height of its >>>> power. On June 30, 1965, the West German government announced that some >>>> 3,375,000 Jewish holocaust "survivors" had applied for reparations >>>> money. The Red Cross reported in 1946 that of registered Jewish camp >>>> inmates no more than 300,000 could have died. It is interesting to note >>>> that in the Jews real "bible", The Talmud, it is claimed that 800,000 >>>> Jews were slaughtered by the Romans in Hadrians era. Yet there is no >>>> historical evidence supporting this claim. The Jewish owned New York >>>> Times, in 1945 carried an article by the well known Jewish writer C.L. >>>> Sulzberger. It openly stated Soviet Russia supplied the figure of 4 >>>> million Jews having been put to death "in the gas chambers of >>>> Auschwitz." Thus it was the communists and the Jews who initially >>>> originated these figures which today are accepted as "gospel truth". It >>>> is claimed that from 1934 to 1945 some 50,000 people died in the huge >>>> Bergen-Belsen camp. This count is considered exaggerated, still Time >>>> Magazine reports that of this figure 20,000 died of typhus during the >>>> single month of March, 1945! If nearly half died of this plague in just >>>> one month at the end of the war there is no way Bergen-Belsen could >>>> have been an "extermination camp". >>>> >>>> HIMMLER-"REDUCE DEATHS AT ALL COSTS" >>>> >>>> Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Concentration Camps issued orders on >>>> Dec. 28, 1942, that "The death rate in the concentration camps must be >>>> reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, "The Final >>>> Solution.") The camps had been hit with a deadly typhus epidemic that >>>> spread by fleas and body lice. Stomach pain, high fever, emaciation and >>>> death can quickly follow. All of the camps were factories and the loss >>>> of workers was hurting war production. Inspector of the camps, Richard >>>> Glucks responded to Himmler's order on Jan 20, 1943, "Every means will >>>> be used to lower the death rates." (Source, Nuremberg Tribunal Document >>>> No. 1523.) On April 10, 1943, Oswald Pohl, head of the Economic >>>> Administration Office of the camps issued a letter stating that persons >>>> with tuberculosis were being sent to the camps resulting in the >>>> "shockingly high mortality figures." (Source: Nuremberg Documents.) >>>> Later on Sept. 30, 1943, Pohl was able to show that the camp death rate >>>> had been reduced from 8.5% in July, 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943. The >>>> German SS arrested Buchenwald Commandant, Karl Koch in 1943 for >>>> mistreating and even executing some prisoners. After an investigation >>>> Koch was found guilty by SS Judge Konrad Morgen and shot. Does this >>>> sound like a policy of "extermination?" With suspicion rapidly rising >>>> about the holocaust claim a committee of Jewish leaders from New York >>>> and Paris met with communist leaders in Warsaw. There they established >>>> the "Committee for the Investigation of War Crimes and War Criminals". >>>> It was after this meeting that the announcement was made that all gas >>>> chambers were located in Poland. >>>> >>>> THE PROBLEMS OF MASS GASSING >>>> >>>> In 1945 it was announced that gas death chambers existed in all >>>> concentration camps in Poland, Germany, Austria and Alsace. Some 15 >>>> years later, in 1960, this was revised to the new claim that gas >>>> chambers existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland. Simon >>>> Weisenthal of the Los Angeles Holocaust center states in the paper, >>>> "Books and Bookmen", April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any >>>> camp on German soil." The pressure had been growing since The Vatican, >>>> Red Cross, English Intelligence and German Intelligence chiefs Canaris >>>> and Oster (who collaborated with the British) either did not know or >>>> believe in rumors of gassings. >>>> >>>> This brings up the following questions. 1) Germans are meticulous >>>> record keepers but there is not one order for the construction of any >>>> gas chamber, no blueprint, no photo of any gas chamber or gassed >>>> victims. 2) There have been thousands on investigations of alleged Nazi >>>> war criminals, hundreds of trials, yet not one person was ever accused >>>> of being involved with actual gassings! No reliable witness on either >>>> side has ever come forward who saw a single person gassed-AND THERE ARE >>>> SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN OVER 10,000 MASS GASSINGS! 3) Photos of bodies at >>>> Dachau and Belsen camps are of prisoners who died of typhus and >>>> malnutrition. Many Germans also died from typhus. 4) The Vatican and >>>> Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the >>>> war about alleged gas chambers. the response was always the same, "The >>>> detainees themselves have not spoken of them." (From the Red Cross >>>> document No. 9925, June 1946.) >>>> >>>> FORCED CONFESSIONS OF GASSINGS >>>> >>>> Rudoft Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz from 1940 to 1943. >>>> captured by the Soviets they extracted a confession to mass gassings >>>> using Zyclon-B gas. Such "confessions" are about as reliable as any >>>> forced by Stalin from victims tortured before taking the stand to >>>> confess during the Moscow show trials of 1936. The communists wrote the >>>> "Confession' and Hoess signed it. Later he was hanged. An assistant >>>> commandant refused to sign-he died in his cell. Hoess statement read, >>>> "half an hour after having released the gas, they opened the door and >>>> started the ventilation machines. They began immediately to extract the >>>> bodies while eating and smoking." Was Hoess trying to get a message >>>> across that there were no gassing? Zyclon-B is not "ventable". The >>>> manufacturers state Zyclon-B adheres to surface clothing and skin. They >>>> say that only after a 24 hour period, wearing a gas mask with the >>>> strongest filter, could any bodies be removed without killing such >>>> workers. If we believe the Hoess confession that the workers ran into >>>> the gas chamber "eating and smoking" - without gas masks - only minutes >>>> after the gassing - IF THIS OCCURRED ALL WOULD HAVE DIED! >>>> >>>> GAS STORIES NOT POSSIBLE >>>> >>>> The Jew Mosche Pearlmann in his book, "The Capture and Trial of Adolph >>>> Eichmann" pages 375 and 385 states Zyclon-B crystals were introduced >>>> from the ceilings of the gas chambers and "became immediately gaseous." >>>> The American Cyanamid Co. of Linden N.J. states: "We know of no >>>> chemical process whereby HCN (Zyclon-B) may be made to become instantly >>>> gaseous upon exposure to air." >>>> >>>> CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER >>>> >>>> Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower >>>> outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that >>>> Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that >>>> anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also >>>> quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page >>>> 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming >>>> stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they >>>> would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth >>>> is that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and fleas >>>> which carry typhus. >>>> >>>> THE PROBLEM OF THE CREMATORIUMS >>>> >>>> At the Auschwitz I camp there were only 6 crematory ovens. At the >>>> hospital in Auschwitz II there are 46 single cremators. In the Lubin >>>> camp there were only 6. THAT'S ALL! In these three camps 3 to 4 million >>>> Jews were supposed to have been exterminated and their bodies cremated. >>>> Also, these cremation ovens were very small with only 18' doors and a >>>> time period of from 4 to 6 hours burning for each body using a large >>>> amount of coal. Cremation for those who passed away was used in the >>>> camps to prevent epidemics. Also, no large supplies of coal were ever >>>> stored at the camps for cremations. A VERY INTERESTING NOTE appears >>>> only in the German edition of William L. Shirer's book, "The Rise and >>>> Fall of the Third Reich." It seems the Didler-Werke Company, which >>>> built the crematory ovens, sued Shirer who previously wrote that >>>> millions of people were gassed and then burned in this company's ovens. >>>> In an out-of-court settlement of the suit Shirer agreed to add the >>>> following footnote on page 972 of the German edition: "The Didler-Werke >>>> have raised objection to the name of their firm appearing in the >>>> chapter concerning the extermination camps. Dr. S. Trastel, a professor >>>> of engineering in a statement of Aug. 1961 established that the >>>> measurements are those which are standard for a crematory oven of not >>>> very modern design intended for small cemeteries and would be >>>> unsuitable for mass burning." WHY IS THIS DELETED FROM THE ENGLISH >>>> EDITION??? On the question of cremating 6,000,000 people - this would >>>> leave 15,000 tons of ashes! Such gigantic piles of ashes created over >>>> the short 2 1/2 year period the holocaust supposedly took place would >>>> have been very difficult to dispose of. No one has ever come forward to >>>> report seeing such huge piles of tons of ashes. It was not until 1960 >>>> that the Soviets opened the Auschwitz camp to tourists and independent >>>> investigators. No gas chamber could be found. The official answer was >>>> that it was "taken to another camp for gassings and then later went >>>> into oblivion!" >>>> >>>> WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST >>>> >>>> Dr. Harry Elmer Barnes, eminent historian, ... >>>> >>>> read more >> >>> >>> >>> >>> CLAIMS OF WILLIAM SHIRER >>> >>> >>> BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH >>> >>> Shirer was in bed with the fucking yids, michael m'dear. >>> >>> He was outed for being a pro-yid communist, you tooler. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Shirer claims the gas was released from overhead through fake shower >>> outlets, (page 970) and quickly killed its victims. The truth is that >>> Zyclon-B gas is lighter than air and would rise to the ceiling so that >>> anyone throwing themselves to the floor would be saved. Shirer also >>> quotes the Soviet written confession signed by Hoess as stating (page >>> 968), "We knew when the people were dead because their screaming >>> stopped." If anyone were actually killed with a cyanide type gas they >>> would die instantly thus there would be no screaming at all. The truth >>> is that Zyclon-B was used to delouse inmates clothing of lice and >>> fleas which carry typhus. >>> >>> >>> You fucking moron; commit suicide or die accidentally. Zyklon was >>> dropped on the floor from an overhead vent and it killed people at >>> floor level first; the victims knew this and tried to climb on top as >>> the gas rised. The whole process took 15-20 minutes to kill everybody. >>> Infant skulls and the weaker victims were crushed on the bottom; >>> people had their ears and noses bit off; there was menstrual blood, >>> shit and other bodily fluids. There were huge bruises. >>> >>> Michael Ragland >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> Looking at the picture of Cyclone B that looks like popcorn how do you >> squeeze it through a showerhead. How many people killed at once. took 15 >> minutes to kill 2000 people as McVay claims there were that many. From >> how many pounds of Zyclon B . Nothings adds up here. > > These half-wits expect us to believe the gas "squirted" out of the cans as > soon as it was released. For that to happen, the gas would need to have > been under pressure in the canisters. It wasn't. The canisters are normal, > everyday, soldered tin cans. Not pressure vessels. The gas simply oozes > out at slightly above atmospheric pressure, and takes considerable time > (hours) to degas. > Maybe the prisoners thought it was the movie theater and they just dropped popcorn so they started stuffing their faces with it. That could happen. There the evidence http://image.hotdog.hu/_data/members1/217/577217/images/ZyklonB.jpg http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~mikew/images/20041218_packing-popcorn.jpg From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:29 EST 2007 Article: 1234917 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802724 soc.culture.israel:1663705 alt.revisionism:1234917 soc.veterans:391487 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,soc.veterans References: <13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com> <13maa1oopv67ua9@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Israeli bastards murdered US sailors - USS Liberty attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <9lQ9j.80679$Um6.11920@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197986245 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:57:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:57:25 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BL\QMIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:57:25 GMT "Jim Higgins" wrote in message news:13maa1oopv67ua9@corp.supernews.com... > Doomsday Cultist wrote: >> > > > Failed your bar-mitzvah *again*? You don't even rise to the level of dirt > on an Israeli's boot soles. > > -- > Civis Romanus Cum If it wasn't for American money Israelis would be walking barefoot and living in caves still. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:29 EST 2007 Article: 1234926 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234926 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com> <13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Holocaust Summary. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197984031 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:20:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:20:31 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:20:31 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, a Connecticut Coward, > wrote: > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article , >>> Snow wrote: >>>>-=-=-=-=-=- >>>> >>>>So let me get this straight. >>>>The soap made out of Jews is not true. >>> >>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/soap-01.html > >>Back in the day soap was made out of bones, usually animal bones but the >>labs also experimented with humans as they do now. But it didn’t happen >>in >>any work camp, neither did it happen in mass quantities. So you can shove >>your Danzig lab example up your ass. > > In short, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow concedes that soap was made from > human remains by > the NAZIs during WWII. So did French, English, Dutch, Russian and many other modern labs. Lab stands for Laboratory and that is the place where experiments take place. I bet there is a lab in Canada also. So this has NOTHING to do with WORK CAMPS > >>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >> >>This is just funny. There is no evidence or proof that work camps victims >>were skinned and used to lamp shades. Just because some lamp shade had a >>tattoo design on it doesn’t mean it came from a Jewish prisoner in work >>camp. > > Who said it came from a Jewish prisoner, LRS Snow? So it has nothing to do with WORK CAMPS or JEWS, so why you even bring it up then. > > Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention > inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you > the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions > with documentary evidence. > > Question 1: > > On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: > , > you made the claim: > > 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. > > http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - > > Please document your claim or retract it. > > Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: > > "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." > > Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal > gassings are a "myth." > > Question 3: > > On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they > could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to > whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." > > Please document these claims or retract them. > > Question 4: > > On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated > that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." > > Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which > I made such a statement. > > Question 5: > > In article , > > you wrote: > > "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free > speech > rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the > teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as > "Revisionism" -- and won." > > Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" > as > you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: > > Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, > Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. > In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then > 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting > hatred against an identifiable group by communicating > anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by > a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of > Queen's Bench. > > Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil > qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as > ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', > ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He > taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy > Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, > chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews > ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast > to the open and honest Christians, were said to be > deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra > expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class > and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. > > Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of > Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on > a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of > the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of > expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among > the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the > defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates > the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was > dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter > tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the > Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. > The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and > it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. > > The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, > Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, > Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, > Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund > (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the > Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has > intervened in support of striking down the impugned > legislation. > > Question 6: > > In article , you wrote: > > "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written > by > Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all > "Holocaust > supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. > > Question 7: > > On July 30, 2007, you wrote: > > "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi > Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't > deal directly with Nazi Germany. > > "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy > companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people > didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." > > Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" > involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank > owners." > > Question 8: > > On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust > supporting > articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a > comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their > authors, > and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by > Jewish organizations." > > Question 9: > > On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members > who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are > the forefront of such edits." > > Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews > being in the "forefront of such edits." > > Question 10: > > On August 5, 2007, you wrote: > >>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ > > ...and... > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we > find, shall we? > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the > Polish > Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary > Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination > Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of > their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting > and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five > hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of > the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such > as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, > Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 > we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates > were gassed at Maidanek." > > (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow > notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, > he is lying - again.) > > The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar > (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* > were murdered there. > > The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek > written by > Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed > through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, > sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, > hanging, > or being shot." > > Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims > were Jews. > > Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: > > "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article > (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the > transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd > appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to > determine > if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, > now tha they have been exposed. > > Question 11: > > In article , on August 15, > 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a > pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." > > Please document when and where any of my children have > made such statements or admit you cannot. > > Question 12: > > In article , posted on > August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: > > "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." > > Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. > > If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all > means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, > in and of itself, a crime. > > -- > IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany > and America's Most Powerful Corporation, by Edwin Black > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0609607995/thenizkorproject/ > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:30 EST 2007 Article: 1234927 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234927 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com> <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> <13mc0arjd6t0q49@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY HOLOCAUST Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197984423 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:27:03 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:27:03 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:27:03 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:oZCdnTWnaZD7IfranZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:kkF9j.83928$YL5.64666@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13mc0arjd6t0q49@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, >>> Leading Revisionist Coward Snow wrote: >>> >>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>>news:13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com... >>>>> In article , >>>>> Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the Connecticut Coward, >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>>NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >>>>>> >>>>>>The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish >>>>>>population was >>>>>>15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the American Jewish >>>>>>Committee. Nest the >>>>> >>>>> Alas for poor Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the World Almanac of 1947 >>>>> *also* clearly >>>>> states that it's Jewish population figures were taken from PRE-WAR >>>>> census >>>>> data. >>>>> >>>>> Funny Leading Revisionist Liar Snow hasn't seen fit to mention that. >>>> >>>>Funny was your face before you got a haircut. >>>>http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_Kenneth_McVay.jpg >>>> >>>>Don’t shoot the messenger. Its obvious I copied and pasted the article >>>>unless you are too high to notice that. If you have objections to the >>>>article feel free to take it out with the article composer Dr. E. R. >>>>Fields >>>>which I doubt you will. >>> >>> Thank you, Leading Revisionist Scholar Snow, the Coward of Connecticut, >>> for admitting >>> that you cut and paste lies. >> >> Once again, I admitted to copy and paste the article, You are such a >> coward that you won't take it out with original composer because you know >> he will chew your ass and your mumblings. After all he is a Dr. and you >> are a gas attendant. Feel free to take it out on me though because the >> article doesn’t fit your Zionist agenda. I am going to do you a big favor >> and compose an email to Dr. Fields saying NIZKOR directors says its all >> lies, because you are too afraid to do it, I did for you. > > These twerps do nothing but cut and paste their nonsense. > > What I find remarkably stupid, is they use each other's websites as > references to back up each other's nonsense. > > Deceitful turds, them. That’s amusing especially since nizko and holocausthistory both use same logo and graphic even, but if you would like to learn about holocaust revisionism nizkor website is a good place to start. > > > > >> >> >>> >>> It really wasn't necessary, however, as your track record procedeth you: >>> >>> Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention >>> inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you >>> the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions >>> with documentary evidence. >>> >>> Question 1: >>> >>> On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: >>> , >>> you made the claim: >>> >>> 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. >>> >>> http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - >>> >>> Please document your claim or retract it. >>> >>> Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: >>> >>> "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." >>> >>> Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal >>> gassings are a "myth." >>> >>> Question 3: >>> >>> On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they >>> could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to >>> whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." >>> >>> Please document these claims or retract them. >>> >>> Question 4: >>> >>> On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated >>> that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." >>> >>> Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which >>> I made such a statement. >>> >>> Question 5: >>> >>> In article , >>> >>> you wrote: >>> >>> "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free >>> speech >>> rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent >>> the >>> teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as >>> "Revisionism" -- and won." >>> >>> Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" >>> as >>> you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: >>> >>> Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, >>> Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. >>> In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then >>> 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting >>> hatred against an identifiable group by communicating >>> anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by >>> a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of >>> Queen's Bench. >>> >>> Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil >>> qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as >>> ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', >>> ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He >>> taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy >>> Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, >>> chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews >>> ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast >>> to the open and honest Christians, were said to be >>> deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra >>> expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class >>> and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. >>> >>> Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of >>> Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on >>> a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of >>> the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of >>> expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among >>> the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the >>> defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates >>> the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was >>> dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter >>> tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the >>> Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. >>> The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and >>> it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. >>> >>> The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, >>> Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, >>> Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, >>> Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund >>> (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the >>> Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has >>> intervened in support of striking down the impugned >>> legislation. >>> >>> Question 6: >>> >>> In article , you wrote: >>> >>> "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are >>> written by >>> Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." >>> >>> Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all >>> "Holocaust >>> supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. >>> >>> Question 7: >>> >>> On July 30, 2007, you wrote: >>> >>> "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi >>> Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't >>> deal directly with Nazi Germany. >>> >>> "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy >>> companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people >>> didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." >>> >>> Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" >>> involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank >>> owners." >>> >>> Question 8: >>> >>> On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust >>> supporting >>> articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." >>> >>> Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a >>> comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their >>> authors, >>> and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by >>> Jewish organizations." >>> >>> Question 9: >>> >>> On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members >>> who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are >>> the forefront of such edits." >>> >>> Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews >>> being in the "forefront of such edits." >>> >>> Question 10: >>> >>> On August 5, 2007, you wrote: >>> >>>>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>>>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ >>> >>> ...and... >>> >>>>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>>>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could >>>>cash >>>>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>>>propaganda) >>> >>> Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what >>> we >>> find, shall we? >>> >>> In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find >>> the Polish >>> Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary >>> Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination >>> Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of >>> their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting >>> and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five >>> hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of >>> the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such >>> as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, >>> Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." >>> >>> In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 >>> we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates >>> were gassed at Maidanek." >>> >>> (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow >>> notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, >>> he is lying - again.) >>> >>> The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar >>> (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* >>> were murdered there. >>> >>> The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek >>> written by >>> Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 >>> passed >>> through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, >>> sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, >>> hanging, >>> or being shot." >>> >>> Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims >>> were Jews. >>> >>> Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: >>> >>> "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this >>> article >>> (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the >>> transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd >>> appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to >>> determine >>> if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." >>> >>>>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>>>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could >>>>cash >>>>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>>>propaganda) >>> >>> Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, >>> now tha they have been exposed. >>> >>> Question 11: >>> >>> In article , on August >>> 15, >>> 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a >>> pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." >>> >>> Please document when and where any of my children have >>> made such statements or admit you cannot. >>> >>> Question 12: >>> >>> In article , posted on >>> August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: >>> >>> "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." >>> >>> Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. >>> >>> If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all >>> means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, >>> in and of itself, a crime. >>> >>> -- >>> "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you >>> people did hang him after that" >>> (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/ >> > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:31 EST 2007 Article: 1235068 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235068 alt.war.vietnam:644795 de.soc.politik.misc:950765 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.war.vietnam,de.soc.politik.misc References: <_kT9j.1111$Tx.846@pd7urf3no> Subject: Re: I'm a sex offender Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198035218 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:33:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:33:38 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:33:38 GMT "A.M.Pfuendl" wrote in message news:fk91pf$g6d$01$1@news.t-online.com... > > "Kurt Knoll" schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:_kT9j.1111$Tx.846@pd7urf3no... >> No wonder your face looks like a foreskin. >> Kurt Knoll. > > > congratulation village idiot, the first truth you wrote > > Happy chanukka, Itzig Is that the holiday where Jews bleed to death a virgin >A PRIEST, A SACRIFICE AND A TABERNACLE Hebrews 9:1-14 When our daughter Sky was born, we were planning to have the delivery through natural childbirth. Nowadays this sort of thing is quite commonplace, but in our era it was considered to be quite an innovation. I was to be in the delivery room with Paula. As Paula was prepped for the delivery, I was stopped by a door with a big sign which ordered, "KEEP OUT!" Before entering, I was required to go through an elaborate ritual. I had to put on the backwards paper pajamas. I had to spend five minutes washing my hands clear up to my elbows. Why? What was the necessity for all of this? After all, I was fairly well-dressed and sincere. What more was needed? Why did I need to go through all of this? It was because of something that I couldn't even see. Something called GERMS. There was a place in the Bible life that. It was a place that was restricted - a place with a big "Keep Out" sign. It was a place that only the high priest could enter and then only once a year and then only after an elaborate washing ritual. It was the Holy of Holies. It was the very presence of God. The big "Keep Out" sign was in the form of a great veil that separated this most holy place from the rest of the world. THE EARTHLY SANCTUARY Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lamp stand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place. Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail. (Hebrews 9:1-5). The Old Testament is very explicit as to how the elements of worship were to be composed. Worship in the Old Testament revolved around the Tabernacle. The word "tabernacle" simply means "tent." It was often known as the "tent of meeting." It was the place where God would come to meet man. The regulations for the Tabernacle are given in great detail in Exodus 25-27. These three long chapters give detailed instructions as to the dimensions, the composition of the building materials and how they were to be put together. Then if that were not enough, Exodus 35-39 recount in even greater detail how those instructions were carried out point by point. At first glance, this kind of repetition seems unnecessary. After all, Moses could have merely written, "God told us how to build the Tabernacle and we followed His instructions." That would have been one verse instead of the eight chapters which are devoted to this subject. Why such attention to detail? Was it merely filler that was needed? Was Moses getting paid by the word? Was this a homework assignment which required a certain number of pages? No, I believe that there was a special reason for this great detail. It is because the entire Tabernacle and all of the ordinances therein were a giant picture of Jesus. Let's look at it. 9:2 There was a tabernacle prepared And the Word became flesh and dwelt [literally "tabernacled"] with us... (John 1:14). The lampstand "I am the light of the world..." (John 8:12). The table and the sacred bread "I am the bread of life..." (John 6:35). 9:3 The second veil Represented the body of Jesus. A golden altar of incense Represented prayers of intercession. 1. The Tabernacle. The word "Tabernacle" simply means "tent." The Tabernacle was a portable meeting place - a place where God would meet with His people. It was first established while the Israelites were in the Sinai wilderness. As such, it had to be portable because the Israelites were constantly on the move. Do you remember what happened when the Tabernacle was completed? The presence of God came and moved into the Tabernacle. Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud had settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. (Exodus 40:34-35). Many years later, the Tabernacle was replaced by a more permanent structure. Although build to the same general specifications, the Temple was made instead of wood and stone. When it was completed, the same thing happened as had happened in the wilderness. The presence of God came. And it came about when the priests came from the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. (1 Kings 8:10-11). The thing that made the Tabernacle and the Temple so special was the presence of God. Without that, they were just another building. The prophet Ezekiel records a number of visions which he had concerning the glory of the Lord. At the beginning of these visions, the glory of the Lord is seen residing within the Temple and specifically between the cherubim (Ezekiel 9:3). As Ezekiel watches, the glory of the Lord moves to the threshold of the Temple (Ezekiel 9:3; 10:3). From there it moves to the east gate (Ezekiel 10:19) and finally out to the mountain which is to the east of the city (Ezekiel 11:23). This was a sign of God's judgment. The glory of the Lord departed and it was not long after this that the Temple was destroyed. Here is the point. Do you remember how Jesus came to Jerusalem on the week in which He was crucified? The Biblical account is very specific. He came by way of the Mount of Olives - the mountain directly east of the city; the mountain over which the glory of the Lord had last been seen in Ezekiel's vision. The coming of Jesus to the Temple was the return of the King to His sanctuary. He came cleansing the Temple. But more importantly, He came to provide a cleansing for all men. In this sense, He not only cleansed the Temple, He IS the temple. It is in Him that men are able to approach God. 2. The Outer Tabernacle. The Sanctuary proper was divided into two parts. There was an inner part and an outer part. They were separated by a thick inner veil. The outer Tabernacle was the scene of daily activity. Into this section would come a priest each morning and each evening. 3. The Lampstand. When we think of the Lampstand, we normally think in terms of a menorah. The Lampstand within the later Temple almost certainly had this appearance. It is shown in such a manner on Titus' Arch of Triumph in Rome which pictures Jewish captives being forced to carry the golden lampstand as a part of the Roman spoils of war. But the original lampstand in the Tabernacle may have looked quite different. It was formed in the shape of a tree. Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and its base and its shaft are to be made of hammered work; its cups, its bulbs and its flowers shall be of one piece with it. Six branches shall go out from its sides; three branches of the lampstand >from its one side and three branches of the lampstand from its other side. Three cups shall be shaped like almond blossoms in the one branch, a bulb and a flower, and three cups shaped like almond blossoms in the other branch, a bulb and a flower -- so for six branches going out from the lampstand; 34 and in the lampstand four cups shaped like almond blossoms, its bulbs and its flowers. (Exodus 35:31-34). Notice the reference to bulbs and flowers and almond blossoms. The lampstand represented a living thing. And even the stylized lampstand of later years had the same representation. What did the lampstand represent? It represented the One who is the light of the world (John 8:12). It represented those who follow that light. This can be seen in John's vision in the book of Revelation. John first hears a voice at the beginning of his vision and he turns and he sees a lampstand. And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His breast with a golden girdle. (Revelation 1:12-13). Notice that in John's vision there is not a single lampstand with seven branches, but seven separate lampstands. This symbolism is explained in verse 20. As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. (Revelation 1:20). Do you see who the lampstands represent? They represent YOU. They represent the churches of God. The lampstand brought light to the Temple. But the lampstand itself was not the source of the light. The source of the light was the oil which was retained in the various bulbs and cups and flowers on the lampstand. These were oil lamps. The Jews had an annual celebration called Hanukkah - the Feast of Lights. It was a time of commemoration of the cleansing of the Temple in the days of the Maccabees. The story was told of how there had been only enough oil to last for a single day, but how it had miraculously lasted for an entire week until more could be brought. The lampstand did not provide the light. It only held the oil that provided the light. And in the same way, the church does not in itself provide the light. It is only as the church is filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit that light is provided. 4. The Table and the Sacred Bread. The table of shewbread was a wooden table overlaid with gold. Onto this table, the priests would lay out 12 loaves of bread. Why twelve? I believe that it was because these also served a double representation. On the one hand, they look at the One who would be the Bread of Life (John 6:41). Jesus is that One who provides spiritual nourishment for our souls. His body which is broken for us is represented by broken bread which is eaten. It is not by chance that He was born in Bethlehem, a town whose name means "the House of Bread." On the other hand, these 12 loaves also represent the 12 tribes of Israel - God's people - the church. We collectively are the body of Christ as we are in union with Him. 5. The second veil. The reason that this is called the second veil is because there was a first veil. The first veil was located at the door of the Tabernacle. It separated the outside from the inside. Beyond this veil and past the golden lampstand and the table of shewbread was the second veil. It served to separate the Holy Place from the innermost sanctum - the Holy of Holies. Embroidered on the veil were the images of cherubim. They served as guardians of the veil, keeping even the priests from entering in. They are reminiscent of the cherubim stationed at the entrance to the Garden of Eden. They were stationed with a flaming sword in order to keep out all who might enter. Do you remember what happened to the veil when Jesus died? It was torn from top to bottom (Luke 23:45). The Scriptures do not say who did the tearing, but the fact that it was from top to bottom tells us that it was no human hand that did this. It was the hand of God who was letting us know by this outward sign that the way into the presence of God had been opened. 6. The Holy of Holies. When you want to emphasis something in Hebrew, you do it by means of repetition. You can find a number of examples of this: "Truly, truly" (John 3:3). "Woe, woe" (Ezekiel 16:23). "The song of songs, which is Solomon's" (SS 1:1). This was a designation for the most holy place of all. It was the holiest of holies. It was the innermost sanctum of the Tabernacle. It's dimensions were in the form of a perfect cube measuring 10 cubits by 10 cubits by 10 cubits. Notice that these are essentially the same dimensions of the New Jerusalem as described in Revelation 21:16. Instead of 10 cubits on a side, it is 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia. 7. The golden altar of incense. The altar of incense was a cubit wide and a cubit long and two cubits in height. It was overlaid in gold. Although technically it was located outside the veil which separated the holy place from the holy of holies, it was associated with the veil and the ark. "And you shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the testimony, where I will meet with you. "And Aaron shall burn fragrant incense on it; he shall burn it every morning when he trims the lamps. "And when Aaron trims the lamps at twilight, he shall burn incense. There shall be perpetual incense before the Lord throughout your generations." (Exodus 30:6-8). Incense was offered upon this altar every morning and every evening. This incense created a sweet-smelling aroma. It would sweeten the entire Temple. The smoke of this incense represented the sweet prayers of God's people ascending to heaven. 8. The Ark of the Covenant ...the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail. (Hebrews 9:4-5). The Ark was the most holy part of the Temple. It was called the ark of the covenant because it held the covenental tablets within. It also held the rod of Aaron which had budded and thereby given evidence that it was Aaron's household who were to serve and the priests of Israel. And it held a golden jar of manna, the food with which God had preserved His people in the wilderness. THE INNER TABERNACLE Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship, 7 but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. (Hebrews 9:6-7). Priests entered into the Temple every morning and every evening to offer the morning incense and the evening incense. Once a week they would enter to change the bread on the Table of Shewbread. These were acts of prayer and of worship. But these priests were not permitted to go any further than the inner veil. Only one priest was allowed to pass beyond the veil. He was the high priest. And he was only permitted to do so once a year. It would be on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement that the High Priest would pass through the veil and into the holy of holies. He would approach the Ark of the Covenant. Upon the top of the Ark was a lid of solid gold. This was known as the Mercy Seat. The images of two cherubim face the center of the Ark. They were silent guardians of the presence of God. The high priest would sprinkle the blood of sacrificed animals upon the Mercy Seat. By this he was providing an atonement for the sins of the entire nation. THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SACRIFICE The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, 9 which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, 10 since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. (Hebrews 9:8-10). Now we come to the significance of the ritual which was practiced each year by the Jewish high priest. The fact that the blood of an animal served as a continuing sacrifice meant that the way into the presence of God had not yet been made open. No mere animal's death could ever take away sins. No mere animal's blood could ever take away guilt. Such rituals were only temporary - looking forward to a time of reformation. The word translated "symbol" in verse 9 is from the Greek . It is related to our word "parable." You know what a parable is. It is an earthly story thrown up along side a spiritual reality to further illustrate it. That is was the Tabernacle was all about. The Tabernacle was a physical structure which was built to teach spiritual realities. It was a physical parable of Jesus and the cross. But once you have learned the truth behind the parable, it is inappropriate to reject that truth while holding only to the parable. A BETTER TABERNACLE AND BETTER BLOOD But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:11-12). Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrificial system. He did what the high priest could only symbolize. He entered into heaven itself. High Priest Jesus Christ A high priest of the old Aaronic priesthood The High Priest of the good things to come Entered the Tabernacle made with hands Entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle Entered with blood of goats and calves Entered with His own blood Every year he had to repeat the same sacrifice He entered the holy place once for all Jesus entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle. What is this greater and more perfect Tabernacle? It is that tabernacle that was not made with hands. It is that tabernacle which is not of this creation. It is heaven! The earthly tabernacle is merely a copy and a pattern of the heavenly reality. Every picture that we are given in the Bible of heaven is described in terms of the tabernacle and the Temple. Jesus did something that no other high priest ever did. He entered into heaven itself to minister a sacrifice. He WAS the sacrifice. He ministered as both the priest and the offering. The blood which He offered was His own. A CLEANSING THAT CLEANSES For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14). Now we come to our last comparison. It is a comparison of the weak and the strong. The point is if that which was intrinsically weak was able to accomplish something, then how much more will that which is intrinsically stronger be able to accomplish. That which is Weak That which is Stronger If the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling... How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered Himself... Sanctifies for the cleansing of the flesh. Cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. The old system provided an outward cleansing of the flesh - a ritual cleansing. But the New Covenant provides much more. It cleanses from the inside out. It cleanses your conscience. It provides a real and lasting forgiveness. It changes a man's very nature. The old system said: "If anyone will make a sacrifice, he can become ritually cleansed on the outside." The New Covenant says: "If anyone be in Christ, he has become a new creature." Notice the movement of the passage. It goes from death to life. The most that the Law could ever do was to bring about a ritual cleansing. But Christ does so much more. He cleanses you from the inside out. The result is not that you might go out and "live as you please" but rather that you might go out and live as HE pleases - that you might serve the living God. http://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/hb09-01.html From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:32 EST 2007 Article: 1235075 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235075 de.soc.politik.misc:950766 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,de.soc.politik.misc References: <13mbcofm90l449a@corp.supernews.com> <13mddgp4tcor6a1@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Kitimat Population Revisionist Scholarship Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198037861 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:17:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:17:41 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:17:41 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mddgp4tcor6a1@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Kurt Knoll wrote: >>Sounds interesting many people who work at alcan live in Terrace and >>population always changes. Just watch the next the Alcan expansion project >>coming up and you will see a dramatics change again. Now is the time to >>pick >>your nose. But make no mistake you could be ending up with your finger in >>your ass. > > None of which changes the fact that you lied about the population of > Kitimat by inflating > it a good 30%. Revisionist Scholarship in action, eh? None of which changes the fact that you lied about that 99.99% of population know Mr. Irving 'for what he is', eh? > > 28 Statements Qualifying Kurt Knoll as the Intellectual Giant > of Holocaust Denial: > > 1. "Go and read what Professor Faurisson has to say about dissecting the > Holocaust. Could it be this was the reason why he was Assassinated > twice." <3c962a6e_2@binaries.vphos.net, Mar. 18, 2002> > > 2. "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail Bu you people > did hang him after that." 2007> > > 3. "No, I myself am not anti-Semitic, I just don't like Jews!" > > 4. "No wonder years after the war was over he found some more > diaries of Ann Frank and she did not know about it." > > 5. "By refinishion you i mean you on their side definetly you > opinons are." > > 6. "People want to know all the facts whatever they are true > or not." > > 7. "We all know it but they will have us believe they have > absolutely no influence on governments. Not believing it > would be anti emetic." > > 8. "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown > typewriter in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state > department about in 1940." > > 9. "Listen guy. Your holocuast industries is clear. For > another trik and I'll hold my scrotum in my mouth for as > long as it taks." > > 10. "If the holocaust critics are stupid it is because Jews > are at times outright corrupt. What is it really you do want > them to believe." > > 11. "Well the con you documents a single that I originated. > Give me the date of the posting and the title." > Nov. 7, 2007 > > 12. "Since all you knowledge is coming out of your holocaust > Fairydale book I will not your naivety holding against you." > > 13. "I am not stressed out since I can analyze your holohoax > in my urine." > > 14. "When I wend and stuck my penis in my ear, I know that I am right!" > > 15. "How do you do fact finding if you do not want to know anything." > Nov. 10, 2007 > > 16. "Looking who things proceed today is no longer what is right > or wrong but one side are you on." > > 17. "Perhaps if you could tell the truth others would not as all the > questions." > > > 18. "Hey Tony will there ever be a time when you can reply in > blain English." , Nov. 12, 2007 > > 19. "No, the holocaust is not about history it is about a Ukrainian > Sausage!" > > 20. "What's now as a cut and con artist you can not supply a honest > posting > showing the time and day including the heating of the posting so I can > check > it out a Google. , > > 21. "Studying the area is alright me questing therefore is studied by > whom." > Nov. 17, 2007 > > 22. "You are calling other that ask questions about the holocaust > despicable. > I suggest you take a very good look at yourself. What you have is false > bride > and nothing else." , Nov. 25, 2007 > > 23. "No Tony the procedure used by you holohoaxers has always be the same. > And this is search and destruct anyone that is in your hollow way." > , Nov. 26, 2007 > > 24. "Makes on wonder how much basic education and coming sense they have. > Or is their brain attached to a chewing gum." > , Dec. 1, 2007 > > 25. "Nanalize the Word all He facts. A brain will tell you what it means." > , Dec. 2007 > > 26. "Oh boy what kind of primitive mentality does he really have. > I sincerely hope his mom and Dad are not proud if it. What the > produced ended up as a vegetable." Dec. 9, > 2007 > > 27. "The coal mine did converted to a brewery. Guess what I was their best > customer making sure now was left half full," > <0RZ6j.11399$iU.8119@pd7urf2no>,, Dec. 9, 2007 > > 28. In a comment about water, Mr. Knoll said, " am glad you know what HO2 > Means. > Dec. 16, 2007. HO2?. He decided to > clarify by adding, "To begin with the H stands for hydrogen." > > > > -- > "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you > people did hang him after that" > (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/ From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:33 EST 2007 Article: 1235076 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235076 soc.history:231319 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history References: <4sudnQXWvKoChvvanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: Hitlers Globe Sells For $100,000 At Auction. Lines: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198038152 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:22:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:22:32 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@@S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:22:32 GMT "It's all a bit strange" wrote in message news:Xns9A08F191564ABTBAnoonecarescom@85.214.90.236... > "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in > news:4sudnQXWvKoChvvanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@giganews.com: > >> >> "Snow" wrote in message >> news:XDl9j.80496$Um6.8034@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net... >>> >>> >>> "perfumeTheMovie" wrote in >>> message >>> news:b194bea3-e3e3-466d-96d3-3490c51a1ea4 > @d27g2000prf.googl >>> egroups.com... >>>> On Dec 16, 5:49 pm, "It's all a bit strange" >>>> wrote: >>>>> Protagonist wrote >>>>> innews:G4ednZG1X4PECvjanZ2dnUVZ_ramnZ2d@comcast.com: >>>>> >>>>> > I think >>>>> >>>>> You've actually never presented any proof that you >>>>> think. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Neither have you. You're the dumbest 12 year old on this >>>> NG. And why do you keep quoting from Ben Cramer? Are you >>>> trying to make a point? >>> >>> >>> Ben Cramer is this kids new idol. Surprised he didn't ask >>> Ben for his autograph yet. >> >> He's obsessed with me. Has been for years. It's a complete >> tosser, a liar and legendary for his "out of context" >> bullshit quotes. >> >> Poor little ronnie has been a failure at everything he's >> ever attempted in life and has failed to silence me. That, >> and the fact I've killfiled the silly little turd, really >> pisses him off. In spades. >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> I'm still waiting for the proof that I threatened to sue >>>>> someone, but I guess just like ole irish you are a >>>>> coward, fraud and liar. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Like Minded Mates >>>>> Reading from Mein Kampf >>>>> Snuggling by the fire >>>>> He shares his deepest thoughts >>>>> Holding him close >>>>> My Aryan warrior >>>>> A warm bath >>>>> Then the lights go out >>>>> >>>>> Ben Cramer >>>>> Copyright (c)2007 Ben Cramer >>>> >>> >> > > Killfile all you want. I just get to call you the coward, > fraud and liar you and your froggie ole irish are and you > don't respond. I imagine when people google this, their only > conclusion can be that I've got you perfectly nailed and you > can't answer my questions. > Exactly, you 'imagine' but in reality people could careless and if anyone reads a few of your replies they will take you as a troll and an idiot. But keep 'imagining' after all it seems that that’s all you have left. Imagining people googling. Can you imagine people using Yahoo or MSN or is it to much for your one brain cell. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:33 EST 2007 Article: 1235077 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235077 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <6b44365d-8238-447b-8598-ba0c306370d4@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Hitlers Globe Sells For $100,000 At Auction. Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198038453 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:27:33 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:27:33 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@@S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:27:33 GMT wrote in message news:c35dfc97-4cbd-403b-a460-cd2313a8cd48@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 16, 10:41 pm, Protagonist wrote: >> raglan...@gmail.com wrote: >> > On Dec 16, 1:24 pm, Protagonist wrote: >> >>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=71a_1195074252 >> >> >> I think Germans should claim 1/2 trillion $$$ compensations from >> >> ex-Allies from all the stuff that was looted from Germany after the >> >> war! >> >> JS >> >> >> >>A San Francisco entrepreneur has paid $100,000 for a globe that >> >> once >> >> belonged to Adolf Hitler and the story behind how it was recovered. >> >> >> The globe sold at auction for more than five times the expected >> >> amount. >> >> Experts had estimated the item would only bring $15,000 to $20,000. >> >> >> American soldier John Barsamian (bar-SAY'-mee-uhn) found the globe in >> >> the ruins of Hitler's Eagle's Nest retreat in the Bavarian Alps in May >> >> of 1945. According to his son, Barsamian recently decided to sell it >> >> while he is alive so he could personally tell the story behind it. >> >> >> Barsamian has a military certificate that allowed him to bring it back >> >> to the U.S., along with pictures of him holding it at the ruins of >> >> Hitler's compound.<<< >> >> > What a waste of $100,000 dollars. >> >> >MichaelRagland >> >> You're sorry, because you don't have it? >> JS- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > If I was a billionare I would turn it into paper mache and let some > kids beat out its > "stuffings" with a stick. It's celebrity dead week. That is the only > reason Hitler's > globe sold for so much is because he is a dead celebrity. > > Michael Ragland > Never going to happen but I am glad you share your dreams with us on this newsgroup. It's a pathological disorder, when someone spends too much time on the internet aka internet addiction, they share their dreams and imaginations with total strangers and people they don't know. It may seem ok with you but it just means that you have no social life. http://www.chem.vt.edu/chem-dept/dessy/honors/papers/ferris.html From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:33 EST 2007 Article: 1235078 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802972 soc.culture.israel:1663855 alt.revisionism:1235078 soc.veterans:391536 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news3.google.com!out03a.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!in04.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,soc.veterans References: <13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com> <13maa1oopv67ua9@corp.supernews.com> <9lQ9j.80679$Um6.11920@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> <13mfr781fjsg6d5@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Israeli bastards murdered US sailors - USS Liberty attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198038563 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:29:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:29:23 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:29:23 GMT "I'm a 400lb big fat pig of a hog bodied German Potato eating Hun bitch" wrote in message news:e6ad82b5-cd05-4c57-9d79-9a7011a19211@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 18, 8:53 am, "Doomsday Cultist" > wrote: >> > If it wasn't for American money Israelis would be walking barefoot and >> > living in caves still. >> >> Gen. Patton's diary and his letters were published in 1974 by the >> Houghton >> Mifflin Company under the title The Patton Papers. >> >> After a visit to ruined Berlin, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945: >> "Berlin >> gave me the blues. We have destroyed what could have been a good race, >> and >> we are about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will >> be >> communist. It's said that for the first week after they took it (Berlin), >> all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could >> have >> taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed." >> >> Later diary entries and letters to his wife reiterate this same >> conclusion. >> On August 31 he wrote: "Actually, the Germans are the only decent people >> left in Europe. it's a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer the >> Germans." >> >> Most of the Jews swarming over Germany immediately after the war came >> from >> Poland and Russia, and Patton found their personal habits shockingly >> uncivilized. >> >> He was disgusted by their behavior in the camps for Displaced Persons >> (DP's) >> which the Americans built for them and even more disgusted by the way >> they >> behaved when they were housed in German hospitals and private homes. He >> observed with horror that "these people do not understand toilets and >> refuse >> to use them except as repositories for tin cans, garbage, and refuse . . >> . >> They decline, where practicable, to use latrines, preferring to relieve >> themselves on the floor." >> >> He described in his diary one DP camp, "where, although room existed, the >> Jews were .crowded together to an appalling extent, and in practically >> every >> room there was a pile of garbage in one corner which was also used as a >> latrine. The Jews were only forced to desist from their nastiness and >> clean >> up the mess by the threat of the butt ends of rifles. Of course, I know >> the >> expression 'lost tribes of Israel' applied to the tribes which >> disappeared -- not to the tribe of Judah from which the current sons of >> bitches are descended. However, it is my personal opinion that this too >> is a >> lost tribe -- lost to all decency." >> >> Patton's initial impressions of the Jews were not improved when he >> attended >> a Jewish religious service at Eisenhower's insistence. His diary entry >> for >> September 17, 1945, reads in part: "This happened to be the feast of Yom >> Kippur, so they were all collected in a large, wooden building, which >> they >> called a synagogue. It behooved General Eisenhower to make a speech to >> them. >> We entered the synagogue, which was packed with the greatest stinking >> bunch >> of humanity I have ever seen. When we got about halfway up, the head >> rabbi, >> who was dressed in a fur hat similar to that worn by Henry VIII of >> England >> and in a surplice heavily embroidered and very filthy, came down and met >> the >> General . . . The smell was so terrible that I almost fainted and >> actually >> about three hours later lost my lunch as the result of remembering it." >> >> These experiences and a great many others firmly convinced Patton that >> the >> Jews were an especially unsavory variety of creature and hardly deserving >> of >> all the official concern the American government was bestowing on them. >> Another September diary entry, following a demand from Washington that >> more >> German housing be turned over to Jews, summed up his feelings: "Evidently >> the virus started by Morgenthau and Baruch of a Semitic revenge against >> all >> Germans is still working. Harrison (a U.S. State Department official) and >> his associates indicate that they feel German civilians should be removed >> from houses for the purpose of housing Displaced Persons. There are two >> errors in this assumption. First, when we remove an individual German we >> punish an individual German, while the punishment is -- not intended for >> the >> individual but for the race, Furthermore, it is against my Anglo-Saxon >> conscience to remove a person from a house, which is a punishment, >> without >> due process of law. In the second place, Harrison and his ilk believe >> that >> the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies >> particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals." >> >> One of the strongest factors in straightening out General Patton's >> thinking >> on the conquered Germans was the behavior of America's controlled news >> media >> toward them. At a press conference in Regensburg, Germany, on May 8, >> 1945, >> immediately after Germany's surrender, Patton was asked whether he >> planned >> to treat captured SS troops differently from other German POW's. His >> answer >> was: "No. SS means no more in Germany than being a Democrat in America -- >> that is not to be quoted. I mean by that that initially the SS people >> were >> special sons of bitches, but as the war progressed they ran out of sons >> of >> bitches and then they put anybody in there. Some of the top SS men will >> be >> treated as criminals, but there is no reason for trying someone who was >> drafted into this outfit . . ." >> >> Despite Patton's request that his remark not be quoted, the press eagerly >> seized on it, and Jews and their front men in America screamed in outrage >> over Patton's comparison of the SS and the Democratic Party as well as >> over >> his announced intention of treating most SS prisoners humanely. >> >> Patton refused to take hints from the press, however, and his >> disagreement >> with the American occupation policy formulated in Washington grew. Later >> in >> May he said to his brother-in-law: "I think that this non-fraternization >> is >> very stupid. If we are going to keep American soldiers in a country, they >> have to have some civilians to talk to. Furthermore, I think we could do >> a >> lot for the German civilians by letting our soldiers talk to their young >> people." >> >> Various of Patton's colleagues tried to make it perfectly clear what was >> expected of him. One politically ambitious officer, Brig. Gen. Philip S. >> Gage, anxious to please the powers that be, wrote to Patton: "Of course, >> I >> know that even your extensive powers are limited, but I do hope that >> wherever and whenever you can you will do what you can to make the German >> populace suffer. For God's sake, please don't ever go soft in regard to >> them. Nothing could ever be too bad for them." >> >> But Patton continued to do what he thought was right, whenever he could. >> With great reluctance, and only after repeated promptings from >> Eisenhower, >> he had thrown German families out of their homes to make room for more >> than >> a million Jewish DP's -- part of the famous "six million" who had >> supposedly >> been gassed -- but he balked when ordered to begin blowing up German >> factories, in accord with the infamous Morgenthau Plan to destroy >> Germany's >> economic basis forever. In his diary he wrote: "I doubted the expediency >> of >> blowing up factories, because the ends for which the factories are being >> blown up -- that is, preventing Germany from preparing for war -- can be >> equally well attained through the destruction of their machinery, while >> the >> buildings can be used to house thousands of homeless persons." >> >> Similarly, he expressed his doubts to his military colleagues about the >> overwhelming emphasis being placed on the persecution of every German who >> had formerly been a member of the National Socialist party. In a letter >> to >> his wife of September 14, 1945, he said: "I am frankly opposed to this >> war >> criminal stuff . It is not cricket and is Semitic. I am also opposed to >> sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands, where many will be >> starved >> to death." >> >> Despite his disagreement with official policy, Patton followed the rules >> laid down by Morgenthau and others back in Washington as closely as his >> conscience would allow, but he tried to moderate the effect, and this >> brought him into increasing conflict with Eisenhower and the other >> politically ambitious generals. In another letter to his wife he >> commented: >> "I have been at Frankfurt for a civil government conference. If what we >> are >> doing (to the Germans) is 'Liberty, then give me death.' I can't see how >> Americans can sink so low. It is Semitic, and I am sure of it." >> >> And in his diary he noted:, "Today we received orders . . . in which we >> were >> told to give the Jews special accommodations. If for Jews, why not >> Catholics, Mormons, etc? . . . We are also turning over to the French >> several hundred thousand prisoners of war to be used as slave labor in >> France. It is amusing to recall that we fought the Revolution in defense >> of >> the rights of man and the Civil War to abolish slavery and have now gone >> back on both principles." >> >> After a visit to ruined Berlin, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945: >> "Berlin >> gave me the blues. We have destroyed what could have been a good race, >> and >> we are about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will >> be >> communist. It's said that for the first week after they took it (Berlin), >> all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could >> have >> taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed." >> >> This conviction, that the politicians had used him and the U.S. Army for >> a >> criminal purpose, grew in the following weeks. During a dinner with >> French >> General Alphonse Juin in August, Patton was surprised to find the >> Frenchman >> in agreement with him. His diary entry for August 18 quotes Gen. Juin: >> "It >> is indeed unfortunate, mon General, that the English and the Americans >> have >> destroyed in Europe the only sound country -- and I do not mean France. >> Therefore, the road is now open for the advent of Russian communism." >> >> Later diary entries and letters to his wife reiterate this same >> conclusion. >> On August 31 he wrote: "Actually, the Germans are the only decent people >> left in Europe. it's a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer the >> Germans." And on September 2: "What we are doing is to destroy the only >> semi-modern state in Europe, so that Russia can swallow the whole." >> >> By this time the Morgenthauists and media monopolists had decided that >> Patton was incorrigible and must be discredited. So they began a non-stop >> hounding of him in the press, a la Watergate, accusing him of being ... >> >> read more >> > > I'm a big fat German Hun bitch and I sit around eating potato chips > dipped in chive cheese dip while I smell my own farts and masturbate > while I think of Ron Jeremey. Sounds more like an American person than German. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:34 EST 2007 Article: 1235079 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235079 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com> <13mft7bmbubn69b@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Holocaust Summary. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198038876 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:34:36 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:34:36 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:34:36 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mft7bmbubn69b@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the Coward from Connecticut, > wrote: > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article , >>> Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, a Connecticut Coward, >>> wrote: >>> >>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>>news:13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com... >>>>> In article , >>>>> Snow wrote: >>>>>>-=-=-=-=-=- >>>>>> >>>>>>So let me get this straight. >>>>>>The soap made out of Jews is not true. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/soap-01.html >>> >>>>Back in the day soap was made out of bones, usually animal bones but the >>>>labs also experimented with humans as they do now. But it didn’t happen >>>>in >>>>any work camp, neither did it happen in mass quantities. So you can >>>>shove >>>>your Danzig lab example up your ass. >>> >>> In short, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow concedes that soap was made from >>> human remains by the NAZIs during WWII. > >>So did French, English, Dutch, Russian and many other modern labs. Lab >>stands for Laboratory and that is the place where experiments take place. >>I >>bet there is a lab in Canada also. So this has NOTHING to do with WORK >>CAMPS > > Who said it did, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow? Who said it did? > >>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >>>> >>>>This is just funny. There is no evidence or proof that work camps >>>>victims >>>>were skinned and used to lamp shades. Just because some lamp shade had a >>>>tattoo design on it doesn’t mean it came from a Jewish prisoner in work >>>>camp. >>> >>> Who said it came from a Jewish prisoner, LRS Snow? >> >>So it has nothing to do with WORK CAMPS or JEWS, so why you even bring it >>up >>then. > > Why indeed DID you bring it up, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow? > Because Wiesenthal as well as your website say its true when indeed its not. According to Jean Edward Smith in his biography, "Lucius D. Clay, an American Life," the general maintained that the leather lamp shades were really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by General Clay years later: "There was absolutely no evidence in the trial transcript, other than she was a rather loathsome creature, that would support the death sentence. I suppose I received more abuse for that than for anything else I did in Germany. Some reporter had called her the "Bitch of Buchenwald," had written that she had lamp shades made of human skin in her house. And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the lamp shades were made out of goat skin." According to the Buchenwald Report, there was a factory at Buchenwald, which produced leather goods out of animal skins, but it caught on fire during an Allied bombing raid on the camp on August 24, 1944. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/IlseKoch4.html "A display table was set up and a film, directed by Billy Wilder, was made to document the atrocities in the camp." Billy Wilder (June 22, 1906 - March 27, 2002) was an Austrian-born, Jewish-American journalist, screenwriter, film director, and producer whose career spanned more than 50 years and 60 films. He is regarded as one of the most brilliant and versatile filmmakers of Hollywood's golden age. Under cross-examination, Dr. Sitte was forced to admit that he had never seen any of the lampshades allegedly made of human skin and that he had no personal knowledge of any prisoner who had been reported by Frau Koch and was then killed so that his tattooed skin could be made into a lampshade. He also admitted that the lampshade that was on the display table in the film was not the lampshade made from human skin that was allegedly delivered to Frau Koch. Apparently the most important piece of evidence, the lampshade made from human skin, was nowhere in sight during the trial. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapbook/DachauTrials/IlseKoch.html The Trial of Ilse Koch Frau Koch had been previously investigated for 8 months by Dr. Georg Konrad Morgen, an SS officer who had been assigned in 1943 to look into accusations of corruption and murder in the Buchenwald camp. She had already been put on trial in December 1943 in a special Nazi Court where Konrad Morgan was the judge. The rumor, circulated by the inmates at Buchenwald, that lamp shades had been made out of human skin, was thoroughly investigated, but no evidence was found and this charge against Frau Koch had been dismissed by Morgen. Even though Ilse Koch had been acquitted in Morgen's court, the former inmates at Buchenwald were convinced that she had ordered prisoners to be killed, so that their tattooed skin could be made into lamp shades. When the American liberators arrived, they were told about the gory accessories in Frau Koch's home. A display table was set up and a film, directed by Billy Wilder, was made to document the atrocities in the camp. The story of the making of human lampshades at Buchenwald received a great deal of attention by the American press, and in the two years between the liberation of the camp and the start of the Buchenwald trial at Dachau, there had been considerable coverage in American newspapers. By the time the trial got underway, there was not the slightest doubt in the minds of most Americans that Ilse Koch was indeed guilty of this despicable crime. Dr. Sitte, who had a PhD in physics, was one of the star witnesses against Ilse Koch. He had been a prisoner at Buchenwald from September 1939 until the liberation. He testified that tattooed skin was stripped from the bodies of dead prisoners and "was often used to create lampshades, knife cases, and similar items for the SS." He told the court that it was "common knowledge" that tattooed prisoners were sent to the hospital after Ilse Koch had passed by them on work details. According to Joshua M. Greene, author of "Justice at Dachau," Dr. Sitte testified that "These prisoners were killed in the hospital and the tattooing stripped off." Dr. Sitte's testimony of "common knowledge" was just another word for hearsay testimony, which was allowed by the American Military Tribunal. Under cross-examination, Dr. Sitte was forced to admit that he had never seen any of the lampshades allegedly made of human skin and that he had no personal knowledge of any prisoner who had been reported by Frau Koch and was then killed so that his tattooed skin could be made into a lampshade. He also admitted that the lampshade that was on the display table in the film was not the lampshade made from human skin that was allegedly delivered to Frau Koch. Apparently the most important piece of evidence, the lampshade made from human skin, was nowhere in sight during the trial. At least two witnesses testified about a lamp with a shade fashioned out of human skin and a base made from a human leg bone, which they claimed had been delivered to Frau Koch. One of these witnesses, Kurt Wilhelm Leeser, testified that he had previously seen the tattoos on this lamp shade on the arms of a fellow prisoner, Josef Collinette, before he died. This lamp was not introduced into evidence in the courtroom and there were no witnesses >from the American military who testified about its existence. ------------------ http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040604.html The lamp from the movie still has vanished; however, as photographed it doesn't match the lamp described by witnesses at the trial--it has no visible markings at all. Occasionally you hear about human-skin lampshades in private collections. I won't claim to have surveyed the field, but I did speak to Norm Sauer, a professor of forensic anthropology at Michigan State University. Professor Sauer was part of a team of experts that a few years ago examined a number of alleged human souvenirs that had been donated to the Holocaust Memorial Center, now located in Farmington Hills, MI. Among the items were a lampshade (and it really was a lampshade, consisting of panels on a wire frame), two chess sets, and a bar of soap, along with some collections of ashes, bone fragments, and so on. Although some of the bone fragments did appear to be human, most and possibly all of the household objects were not. The chess sets were made of animal but not human bone; the lampshade possibly was deer or goat but not human skin. -------------- http://www.scrapbookpages.com/EasternGermany/Buchenwald/Canteen01.jpg Door to the basement room where soap was made in Buchenwald At Buchenwald, soap was made from animal fat, for the use of the camp inmates, in the basement of the Canteen. The door into the room where the soap was made is shown in the photo above. At the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945, the Soviet Union charged that the Nazis had made soap from human fat. Soap that was allegedly made from human fat was displayed in the court room, but no forensic report on the soap was presented. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:35 EST 2007 Article: 1235080 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235080 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <9NWdnSGBkpapX_7anZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@giganews.com> <38f9b4b4-c4a3-4b33-938e-d7e8d7a5d658@o42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> <3fd3d6a9-0782-459a-9b51-a47b8e8d601e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0277e6d2-4e2f-4f68-b9bc-15bbdb9d59b8@e67g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> <5f21eff9-aed9-4080-8fff-ad35e83aac0c@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: When did the world learn about the Holocaust(tm)? Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198038962 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:36:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:36:02 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:36:02 GMT wrote in message news:5f21eff9-aed9-4080-8fff-ad35e83aac0c@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > Snow wrote: > >> how about you keep your translations to yourself or try translating >> zionist >> polititians. > > Since "cramer" troll proved that he can't answer to my simple > questions, I can ask from you. > > Who had such resources to product millions of "fake" documents that > Bad Arolsen contains? > > (Based on denier argument, paper documented evidences are forgeries) > > Who had such resources to train thousands of witnesses to tell the > same story? > > (Based on denier argument, sworn testimonies are lies) > > Who had such resources to force all nazi-criminals to tell the same > story? > > (Based on denier argument, all nazis were forced to confess and they > lied because allied wanted them to do so) > > Who had such resources to build up "fake" camps? > > (Based on denier argument, such camps didn't exist what used to kill > jewish and other ethnic groups systemtically) > > All these in the end of the war or in the first years after the WWII > when the whole Europe was in turmoil and people tried just to survive > as best as they could. Who had such resources, personnel and time in > that time to build such a massive "hoax" ? > > -- > Wotan Allied forces had all the resources since they were the winners of the war. Together with well organized institutions and organizations. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:35 EST 2007 Article: 1235081 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235081 soc.culture.usa:2067984 soc.culture.canada:595621 soc.history.what-if:738085 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039094 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:38:14 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:38:14 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:38:14 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:l5OdnVLV8aTBbvjanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@giganews.com... > Snow wrote: >> >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:x5WdnR74iOCwRPjanZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Snow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>> news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> Sara Salzman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >>>>>> >>>>>>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>>>>>> "confession." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails >>>>>>> he claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the >>>>>>> law. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So there are only two choices here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break >>>>>>> the law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag >>>>>>> that he had broken the law? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>>>>>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. >>>>>>> Why would anyone believe an admitted liar? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be >>>>>> BOTH, TL. >>>>> >>>>> True. >>>>> >>>>> I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he >>>>> hacked into my computer. >>>>> >>>>> And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued the >>>>> ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. >>>>> >>>>> And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went >>>>> off into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >>>>>> >>>>>> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in >>>>>> dispute. >>>> >>>> >>>> I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge >>>> to break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit >>>> Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he >>>> hacked your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do >>>> you believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any >>>> proof that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, >>>> apparently a known liar. >>> >>> Do I honestly think Irving hacked into my computer? Of course not. >>> Especially since he announced that "next time Sara should get a >>> Macintosh," and that is exactly what I was using. I don't think he has >>> the computer savvy. >>> >>> What I *do* think is that Irving is such a liar and pompous ass that >>> instead of saying "Someone sent me a copy of Sara's email," he had to >>> lie about it. >>> >>> Yes, Irving is a tremendous liar. That he would "admit" to committing a >>> felony just to show off only shows how completely insane he is. >>> >>> Hope that helps. >>> >>> -Sara >> >> I am thinking the same that Irving couldn't hack anything. I doubt he is >> clever enough to find a hacker who would hack it for him for money, he >> wouldn't know where to start looking for hackers. So the questions >> remains how is that your email became public. Its either that someone >> had physical access to your computer, you installed a backdoor which >> someone had to provide it to you as a file, or you posted the email >> yourself or one of your colleagues posted it somewhere. > > And yet you don't address why Irving would make up a lie about hacking > into my computer. Why do you think he did that? > > -Sara to cover up a person who supplied him with that info, perhaps he was aware if he suggested a person, you would become suspicious of your surroundings and Irving would loose a moll. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:35 EST 2007 Article: 1235083 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235083 soc.culture.usa:2067985 soc.culture.canada:595622 soc.history.what-if:738086 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039153 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:39:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:39:13 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@@S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:39:13 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:Faidne6-F977hPvanZ2dnUVZ_rGrnZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Sara Salzman" wrote in message > news:l5OdnVLV8aTBbvjanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@giganews.com... >> Snow wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>> news:x5WdnR74iOCwRPjanZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@giganews.com... >>>> Snow wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>>> news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>> Sara Salzman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and >>>>>>>> his "confession." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails >>>>>>>> he claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the >>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So there are only two choices here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break >>>>>>>> the law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag >>>>>>>> that he had broken the law? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>>>>>>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be >>>>>>>> suspect. Why would anyone believe an admitted liar? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be >>>>>>> BOTH, TL. >>>>>> >>>>>> True. >>>>>> >>>>>> I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he >>>>>> hacked into my computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued >>>>>> the ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. >>>>>> >>>>>> And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went >>>>>> off into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in >>>>>>> dispute. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge >>>>> to break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit >>>>> Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he >>>>> hacked your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do >>>>> you believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any >>>>> proof that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, >>>>> apparently a known liar. >>>> >>>> Do I honestly think Irving hacked into my computer? Of course not. >>>> Especially since he announced that "next time Sara should get a >>>> Macintosh," and that is exactly what I was using. I don't think he has >>>> the computer savvy. >>>> >>>> What I *do* think is that Irving is such a liar and pompous ass that >>>> instead of saying "Someone sent me a copy of Sara's email," he had to >>>> lie about it. >>>> >>>> Yes, Irving is a tremendous liar. That he would "admit" to committing a >>>> felony just to show off only shows how completely insane he is. >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>> >>>> -Sara >>> >>> I am thinking the same that Irving couldn't hack anything. I doubt he is >>> clever enough to find a hacker who would hack it for him for money, he >>> wouldn't know where to start looking for hackers. So the questions >>> remains how is that your email became public. Its either that someone >>> had physical access to your computer, you installed a backdoor which >>> someone had to provide it to you as a file, or you posted the email >>> yourself or one of your colleagues posted it somewhere. >> >> And yet you don't address why Irving would make up a lie about hacking >> into my computer. Why do you think he did that? > > He did not say he hacked your computer, fat slag. You've made that up in > your own foetid, hate-filled mind. > > Are you saying Sara made that up? Sara could you be so kind and provide a link or source where Irving admits to hacking your computer From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:36 EST 2007 Article: 1235084 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802974 alt.bible:1279458 alt.revisionism:1235084 soc.culture.europe:597879 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7mj07cthfte6@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039443 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:44:03 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:44:03 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:44:03 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m7mj07cthfte6@corp.supernews.com... > > > "Mistylein" wrote in message > news:ejL8j.301$RQ6.285@newsfe07.lga... >> >> "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message >> news:13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com... >> > Ignorant thug "christians" brutally attack a Jewish man >> > who wished everyone a happy Hanukkah. >> > >> > Muslim man comes to their aid. >> > >> > > http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0db7b365-a288-4708-857b-8bdb545cbd0f&vxChannel=PostNoAds&vxClipId=1458_209345&vxBitrate=700 >> >> I saw the clip and I do not see how anyone is able to claim some >> Christians were doing the beating. >> It was not Christians at all as you claim. >> > > > > The Jewish guy wished everyone a happy Hannukah, and the attackers said > Hannukah is when the Jews killed Christ, and they were very upset by that > idea. See? I'm sure they were raised in a Christian church of some kind. > > I think it's a damn shame that there are any religions at all, but since > people seem to need them, everyone should be free to practice and express > their religious beliefs, as long as it does no harm to others. > That’s a little too much detail from a mugging. Did they attackers confess that they responded to happy Hanukah or did the Jewish victim gave that detail? From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:36 EST 2007 Article: 1235085 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802975 alt.bible:1279459 alt.revisionism:1235085 soc.culture.europe:597880 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039760 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:49:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:49:20 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:49:20 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com... > On Dec 15, 12:43 am, "It's all a bit strange" > wrote: > > >> And they keep turning on each other. It just gets better and >> better. >> >> You see doomsday, when you post the truth, cramer >> automatically calls you a yid, doesn't even look at who is >> posting.>> > > > Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate > bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. > I was fed communist/Russian/polish propaganda for years and when I came to USA I am being fed Zionist propaganda. What amazes me is that many people can't distinguish propaganda or don't know how it works. My grandfather was a Polish Jew and I loved him very much, I also have many Jewish friends yet when I speak out my point of view about Zionist and propaganda they don’t call me anti-Semitic and many of them agree with my so called Jewish Holocaust view. Yet Zionists on this forum are very quick to label me anti-Semitic and they don't know me. I also must say American and Zionist propaganda is more subtle than communist propaganda but its everywhere. Every propaganda gimmick and every propaganda tool is utilized by American media. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:36 EST 2007 Article: 1235086 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802976 alt.bible:1279460 alt.revisionism:1235086 soc.culture.europe:597881 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> <%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039979 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:52:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:52:59 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:52:59 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:FtWdnTQHWKbqufvanZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>>>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. >>> >>> There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and >>> you hate Jews. >>> >>> You're welcome. >> >> >> You are a revisionist because you are a permanent member of this >> newsgroup alt.revisionism. > > He is also a revisionist because he's one of the leading lights in the > yid's Holocaust(tm) industry who have made a racket out of revising the > history of WWII to suit their extortion racket. plus his website has many revisionist resources together with Zionist debunking of such revisionist facts. So you can find how are Zionist trying to debunk revisionist facts and you can also learn some new revisionist facts that you didn’t know before. > > >> >> >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. >>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." >>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org >> > > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:36 EST 2007 Article: 1235087 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235087 soc.culture.israel:1663861 soc.culture.jewish:1802979 soc.culture.palestine:588287 soc.culture.arabic:283459 alt.religion.islam:1258967 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.arabic,alt.religion.islam References: <1190924725.396330.105630@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1191468139.395441.32950@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <1191701660.628110.75330@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: a few of my thoughts about ISRAEL Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <5u1aj.30891$lD6.25567@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198040065 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:54:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:54:25 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:54:25 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:G_GdnUXzjcuTIP3anZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@giganews.com... > Kurt Knoll wrote: >> No matter what settlement will come out of the negoiationable. The Jews >> are in charge of it and they will do all the screwing the same way they >> have done for centuries. >> Kurt Knoll. > > Kurt is just jealous because he is in his 70s and has never done any > screwing. That's just like Mr. McVay >> >> "Aviroce" wrote in message >> news:1191701660.628110.75330@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>> SCUMBAG POSTER: >>> THEY TOLD YOU"Israel has no legal, religious, or historical right in >>> Palestine >>> >>> >>> Truly "Israel" existence is........................ >>> absolute wrong, this corruptor, thief, >>> tyrant, occupier, terrorist and cancer >>> has no right to live on the Palestinian >>> land, it will always meet refusal >>> regardless of the reconciliation, >>> recognitions and surrenders!! >>> >>> -----Indeed" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 3, 11:22 pm, Mohammed Loves His 6 Year Old Wife Aisha >>> wrote: >>>> On Sep 27, 9:54 pm, "ElParedon" wrote: >>>> >>>>> "AirRaid" wrote in message >>>>> news:1190924725.396330.105630@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> the palestinians should get the fuck off of Israel's land. >>>>> THERE IS NO ISRAEL, THERE IS ONLY OCCUPIED PALESTINE! >>>>> GO BACK TO RUSSIA YOU SCUM! >>>> There never was a Palestine. It was never a nation, and you know it, >>>> you scum! Go back to Jordan and Syria where your families are >>>> from!!! Better yet, go in front of a speeding bus! >>> >> >> From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:36 EST 2007 Article: 1235088 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235088 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Hannukah A priest, a sacrifice and a tabernacle, rituals. Jews still follow pagan rituals that include human blood. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0140_01C841D1.ABB7D120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198040230 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:57:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:57:10 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:57:10 GMT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0140_01C841D1.ABB7D120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 A PRIEST, A SACRIFICE AND A TABERNACLE Hebrews 9:1-14 When our daughter Sky was born, we were planning to have the delivery = through natural childbirth. Nowadays this sort of thing is quite = commonplace, but in our era it was considered to be quite an innovation. = I was to be in the delivery room with Paula. As Paula was prepped for the delivery, I was stopped by a door with a = big sign which ordered, "KEEP OUT!" Before entering, I was required to = go through an elaborate ritual. I had to put on the backwards paper = pajamas. I had to spend five minutes washing my hands clear up to my = elbows. Why? What was the necessity for all of this? After all, I was = fairly well-dressed and sincere. What more was needed? Why did I need to = go through all of this? It was because of something that I couldn't even = see. Something called GERMS. There was a place in the Bible life that. It was a place that was = restricted - a place with a big "Keep Out" sign. It was a place that = only the high priest could enter and then only once a year and then only = after an elaborate washing ritual. It was the Holy of Holies. It was the = very presence of God. The big "Keep Out" sign was in the form of a great = veil that separated this most holy place from the rest of the world. THE EARTHLY SANCTUARY Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the = earthly sanctuary. For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the = lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy = place. Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy = of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the = covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar = holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the = covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the = mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail. (Hebrews = 9:1-5). The Old Testament is very explicit as to how the elements of worship = were to be composed. Worship in the Old Testament revolved around the = Tabernacle. The word "tabernacle" simply means "tent." It was often = known as the "tent of meeting." It was the place where God would come to = meet man. The regulations for the Tabernacle are given in great detail in Exodus = 25-27. These three long chapters give detailed instructions as to the = dimensions, the composition of the building materials and how they were = to be put together. Then if that were not enough, Exodus 35-39 recount = in even greater detail how those instructions were carried out point by = point. At first glance, this kind of repetition seems unnecessary. After all, = Moses could have merely written, "God told us how to build the = Tabernacle and we followed His instructions." That would have been one = verse instead of the eight chapters which are devoted to this subject. = Why such attention to detail? Was it merely filler that was needed? Was = Moses getting paid by the word? Was this a homework assignment which = required a certain number of pages? No, I believe that there was a = special reason for this great detail. It is because the entire = Tabernacle and all of the ordinances therein were a giant picture of = Jesus. Let's look at it. 9:2 There was a tabernacle prepared And the Word became flesh and dwelt [literally "tabernacled"] with = us... (John 1:14). =20 The lampstand "I am the light of the world..." (John 8:12). =20 The table and the sacred bread "I am the bread of life..." (John 6:35). =20 9:3 The second veil Represented the body of Jesus. =20 A golden altar of incense Represented prayers of intercession. =20 1. The Tabernacle. The word "Tabernacle" simply means "tent." The Tabernacle was a portable = meeting place - a place where God would meet with His people. It was = first established while the Israelites were in the Sinai wilderness. As = such, it had to be portable because the Israelites were constantly on = the move. Do you remember what happened when the Tabernacle was completed? The = presence of God came and moved into the Tabernacle. Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord = filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud = had settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. = (Exodus 40:34-35). Many years later, the Tabernacle was replaced by a more permanent = structure. Although build to the same general specifications, the Temple = was made instead of wood and stone. When it was completed, the same = thing happened as had happened in the wilderness. The presence of God = came. And it came about when the priests came from the holy place, that the = cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the priests could not = stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled = the house of the Lord. (1 Kings 8:10-11). The thing that made the Tabernacle and the Temple so special was the = presence of God. Without that, they were just another building. The prophet Ezekiel records a number of visions which he had concerning = the glory of the Lord. At the beginning of these visions, the glory of = the Lord is seen residing within the Temple and specifically between the = cherubim (Ezekiel 9:3). As Ezekiel watches, the glory of the Lord moves = to the threshold of the Temple (Ezekiel 9:3; 10:3). From there it moves = to the east gate (Ezekiel 10:19) and finally out to the mountain which = is to the east of the city (Ezekiel 11:23). This was a sign of God's = judgment. The glory of the Lord departed and it was not long after this = that the Temple was destroyed. Here is the point. Do you remember how Jesus came to Jerusalem on the = week in which He was crucified? The Biblical account is very specific. = He came by way of the Mount of Olives - the mountain directly east of = the city; the mountain over which the glory of the Lord had last been = seen in Ezekiel's vision. The coming of Jesus to the Temple was the return of the King to His = sanctuary. He came cleansing the Temple. But more importantly, He came = to provide a cleansing for all men. In this sense, He not only cleansed = the Temple, He IS the temple. It is in Him that men are able to approach = God. 2. The Outer Tabernacle. The Sanctuary proper was divided into two parts. There was an inner part = and an outer part. They were separated by a thick inner veil. The outer = Tabernacle was the scene of daily activity. Into this section would come = a priest each morning and each evening. 3. The Lampstand. When we think of the Lampstand, we normally think in terms of a menorah. = The Lampstand within the later Temple almost certainly had this = appearance. It is shown in such a manner on Titus' Arch of Triumph in = Rome which pictures Jewish captives being forced to carry the golden = lampstand as a part of the Roman spoils of war. But the original lampstand in the Tabernacle may have looked quite = different. It was formed in the shape of a tree. Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and its base = and its shaft are to be made of hammered work; its cups, its bulbs and = its flowers shall be of one piece with it.=20 Six branches shall go out from its sides; three branches of the = lampstand from its one side and three branches of the lampstand from its = other side.=20 Three cups shall be shaped like almond blossoms in the one branch, a = bulb and a flower, and three cups shaped like almond blossoms in the = other branch, a bulb and a flower -- so for six branches going out from = the lampstand; 34 and in the lampstand four cups shaped like almond = blossoms, its bulbs and its flowers. (Exodus 35:31-34). Notice the reference to bulbs and flowers and almond blossoms. The = lampstand represented a living thing. And even the stylized lampstand of = later years had the same representation. What did the lampstand = represent?=20 a.. It represented the One who is the light of the world (John = 8:12). a.. It represented those who follow that light. This can be seen in = John's vision in the book of Revelation. John first hears a voice at the = beginning of his vision and he turns and he sees a lampstand. And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having = turned I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the middle of the = lampstands one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the = feet, and girded across His breast with a golden girdle. (Revelation = 1:12-13). Notice that in John's vision there is not a single lampstand with seven = branches, but seven separate lampstands. This symbolism is explained in = verse 20. As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, = and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the = seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. = (Revelation 1:20). Do you see who the lampstands represent? They represent YOU. They = represent the churches of God. The lampstand brought light to the Temple. But the lampstand itself was = not the source of the light. The source of the light was the oil which = was retained in the various bulbs and cups and flowers on the lampstand. = These were oil lamps. The Jews had an annual celebration called Hanukkah = - the Feast of Lights. It was a time of commemoration of the cleansing = of the Temple in the days of the Maccabees. The story was told of how = there had been only enough oil to last for a single day, but how it had = miraculously lasted for an entire week until more could be brought. The lampstand did not provide the light. It only held the oil that = provided the light. And in the same way, the church does not in itself = provide the light. It is only as the church is filled with the oil of = the Holy Spirit that light is provided. 4. The Table and the Sacred Bread. The table of shewbread was a wooden table overlaid with gold. Onto this = table, the priests would lay out 12 loaves of bread. Why twelve? I = believe that it was because these also served a double representation. On the one hand, they look at the One who would be the Bread of Life = (John 6:41). Jesus is that One who provides spiritual nourishment for = our souls. His body which is broken for us is represented by broken = bread which is eaten. It is not by chance that He was born in Bethlehem, = a town whose name means "the House of Bread." On the other hand, these 12 loaves also represent the 12 tribes of = Israel - God's people - the church. We collectively are the body of = Christ as we are in union with Him. 5. The second veil. The reason that this is called the second veil is because there was a = first veil. The first veil was located at the door of the Tabernacle. It = separated the outside from the inside. Beyond this veil and past the = golden lampstand and the table of shewbread was the second veil. It = served to separate the Holy Place from the innermost sanctum - the Holy = of Holies. Embroidered on the veil were the images of cherubim. They served as = guardians of the veil, keeping even the priests from entering in. They = are reminiscent of the cherubim stationed at the entrance to the Garden = of Eden. They were stationed with a flaming sword in order to keep out = all who might enter. Do you remember what happened to the veil when Jesus died? It was torn = >from top to bottom (Luke 23:45). The Scriptures do not say who did the = tearing, but the fact that it was from top to bottom tells us that it = was no human hand that did this. It was the hand of God who was letting = us know by this outward sign that the way into the presence of God had = been opened. 6. The Holy of Holies. When you want to emphasis something in Hebrew, you do it by means of = repetition. You can find a number of examples of this: "Truly, truly" (John 3:3). "Woe, woe" (Ezekiel 16:23). "The song of songs, which is Solomon's" (SS 1:1). This was a designation for the most holy place of all. It was the = holiest of holies. It was the innermost sanctum of the Tabernacle. It's = dimensions were in the form of a perfect cube measuring 10 cubits by 10 = cubits by 10 cubits. Notice that these are essentially the same dimensions of the New = Jerusalem as described in Revelation 21:16. Instead of 10 cubits on a = side, it is 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia. 7. The golden altar of incense. The altar of incense was a cubit wide and a cubit long and two cubits in = height. It was overlaid in gold. Although technically it was located = outside the veil which separated the holy place from the holy of holies, = it was associated with the veil and the ark. "And you shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near the ark = of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the = testimony, where I will meet with you. "And Aaron shall burn fragrant incense on it; he shall burn it every = morning when he trims the lamps. "And when Aaron trims the lamps at twilight, he shall burn incense. = There shall be perpetual incense before the Lord throughout your = generations." (Exodus 30:6-8). Incense was offered upon this altar every morning and every evening. = This incense created a sweet-smelling aroma. It would sweeten the entire = Temple. The smoke of this incense represented the sweet prayers of God's = people ascending to heaven. 8. The Ark of the Covenant ...the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was = a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the = tables of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory = overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in = detail. (Hebrews 9:4-5). The Ark was the most holy part of the Temple. It was called the ark of = the covenant because it held the covenental tablets within. It also held = the rod of Aaron which had budded and thereby given evidence that it was = Aaron's household who were to serve and the priests of Israel. And it = held a golden jar of manna, the food with which God had preserved His = people in the wilderness. THE INNER TABERNACLE Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually = entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship, 7 but into = the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking = blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people = committed in ignorance. (Hebrews 9:6-7). Priests entered into the Temple every morning and every evening to offer = the morning incense and the evening incense. Once a week they would = enter to change the bread on the Table of Shewbread. These were acts of = prayer and of worship. But these priests were not permitted to go any = further than the inner veil. Only one priest was allowed to pass beyond = the veil. He was the high priest. And he was only permitted to do so = once a year. It would be on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement that the High Priest = would pass through the veil and into the holy of holies. He would = approach the Ark of the Covenant. Upon the top of the Ark was a lid of = solid gold. This was known as the Mercy Seat. The images of two cherubim = face the center of the Ark. They were silent guardians of the presence = of God. The high priest would sprinkle the blood of sacrificed animals upon the = Mercy Seat. By this he was providing an atonement for the sins of the = entire nation. THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SACRIFICE The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has = not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, 9 = which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and = sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in = conscience, 10 since they relate only to food and drink and various = washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. = (Hebrews 9:8-10). Now we come to the significance of the ritual which was practiced each = year by the Jewish high priest. The fact that the blood of an animal = served as a continuing sacrifice meant that the way into the presence of = God had not yet been made open. No mere animal's death could ever take away sins. No mere animal's blood = could ever take away guilt. Such rituals were only temporary - looking = forward to a time of reformation. The word translated "symbol" in verse 9 is from the Greek . It is = related to our word "parable." You know what a parable is. It is an = earthly story thrown up along side a spiritual reality to further = illustrate it. That is was the Tabernacle was all about. The Tabernacle was a physical = structure which was built to teach spiritual realities. It was a = physical parable of Jesus and the cross. But once you have learned the = truth behind the parable, it is inappropriate to reject that truth while = holding only to the parable. A BETTER TABERNACLE AND BETTER BLOOD But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He = entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with = hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the = blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the = holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. (Hebrews = 9:11-12). Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrificial system. He = did what the high priest could only symbolize. He entered into heaven = itself. High Priest Jesus Christ =20 A high priest of the old Aaronic priesthood The High Priest of the good things to come =20 Entered the Tabernacle made with hands Entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle =20 Entered with blood of goats and calves Entered with His own blood =20 Every year he had to repeat the same sacrifice He entered the holy place once for all =20 Jesus entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle. What is = this greater and more perfect Tabernacle? a.. It is that tabernacle that was not made with hands. a.. It is that tabernacle which is not of this creation. It is heaven! The earthly tabernacle is merely a copy and a pattern of = the heavenly reality. Every picture that we are given in the Bible of = heaven is described in terms of the tabernacle and the Temple. Jesus did something that no other high priest ever did. He entered into = heaven itself to minister a sacrifice. He WAS the sacrifice. He = ministered as both the priest and the offering. The blood which He = offered was His own. A CLEANSING THAT CLEANSES For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling = those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 = how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit = offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from = dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:13-14). Now we come to our last comparison. It is a comparison of the weak and = the strong. The point is if that which was intrinsically weak was able = to accomplish something, then how much more will that which is = intrinsically stronger be able to accomplish. That which is Weak That which is Stronger =20 If the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer = sprinkling... How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal = spirit offered Himself... =20 Sanctifies for the cleansing of the flesh. Cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God. =20 The old system provided an outward cleansing of the flesh - a ritual = cleansing. But the New Covenant provides much more. It cleanses from the = inside out. It cleanses your conscience. It provides a real and lasting = forgiveness. It changes a man's very nature. a.. The old system said: "If anyone will make a sacrifice, he can = become ritually cleansed on the outside." a.. The New Covenant says: "If anyone be in Christ, he has become a = new creature." Notice the movement of the passage. It goes from death to life. The most = that the Law could ever do was to bring about a ritual cleansing. But = Christ does so much more. He cleanses you from the inside out. The = result is not that you might go out and "live as you please" but rather = that you might go out and live as HE pleases - that you might serve the = living God. ------=_NextPart_000_0140_01C841D1.ABB7D120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 =20

A PRIEST, A SACRIFICE AND A TABERNACLE

Hebrews 9:1-14

 

When our daughter Sky was born, we were planning to have the delivery = through=20 natural childbirth. Nowadays this sort of thing is quite commonplace, = but in our=20 era it was considered to be quite an innovation. I was to be in the = delivery=20 room with Paula.

As Paula was prepped for the delivery, I was stopped by a door with a = big=20 sign which ordered, "KEEP OUT!" Before entering, I was required to go = through an=20 elaborate ritual. I had to put on the backwards paper pajamas. I had to = spend=20 five minutes washing my hands clear up to my elbows. Why? What was the = necessity=20 for all of this? After all, I was fairly well-dressed and sincere. What = more was=20 needed? Why did I need to go through all of this? It was because of = something=20 that I couldn=92t even see. Something called GERMS.

There was a place in the Bible life that. It was a place that was = restricted=20 - a place with a big "Keep Out" sign. It was a place that only the high = priest=20 could enter and then only once a year and then only after an elaborate = washing=20 ritual. It was the Holy of Holies. It was the very presence of God. The = big=20 "Keep Out" sign was in the form of a great veil that separated this most = holy=20 place from the rest of the world.

 

THE EARTHLY SANCTUARY

Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and = the=20 earthly sanctuary.

For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the = lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy = place.

Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the = Holy of=20 Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the = ark of=20 the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar = holding=20 the manna, and Aaron=92s rod which budded, and the tables of the = covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing = the mercy=20 seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail. (Hebrews=20 9:1-5).

The Old Testament is very explicit as to how the elements of worship = were to=20 be composed. Worship in the Old Testament revolved around the = Tabernacle. The=20 word "tabernacle" simply means "tent." It was often known as the "tent = of=20 meeting." It was the place where God would come to meet man.

The regulations for the Tabernacle are given in great detail in = Exodus 25-27.=20 These three long chapters give detailed instructions as to the = dimensions, the=20 composition of the building materials and how they were to be put = together. Then=20 if that were not enough, Exodus 35-39 recount in even greater detail how = those=20 instructions were carried out point by point.

At first glance, this kind of repetition seems unnecessary. After = all, Moses=20 could have merely written, "God told us how to build the Tabernacle and = we=20 followed His instructions." That would have been one verse instead of = the eight=20 chapters which are devoted to this subject. Why such attention to = detail? Was it=20 merely filler that was needed? Was Moses getting paid by the word? Was = this a=20 homework assignment which required a certain number of pages? No, I = believe that=20 there was a special reason for this great detail. It is because the = entire=20 Tabernacle and all of the ordinances therein were a giant picture of = Jesus.=20 Let=92s look at it.

9:2

There was a tabernacle prepared

And the Word became flesh and dwelt [literally = "tabernacled"]=20 with us... (John 1:14).

The lampstand

"I am the light of the world..." (John 8:12).

The table and the sacred bread

"I am the bread of life..." (John 6:35).

9:3

The second veil

Represented the body of Jesus.

A golden altar of incense

Represented prayers of = intercession.

1. The Tabernacle.

The word "Tabernacle" simply means "tent." The Tabernacle was a = portable=20 meeting place - a place where God would meet with His people. It was = first=20 established while the Israelites were in the Sinai wilderness. As such, = it had=20 to be portable because the Israelites were constantly on the move.

Do you remember what happened when the Tabernacle was completed? The = presence=20 of God came and moved into the Tabernacle.

Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the = Lord=20 filled the tabernacle.

And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud = had=20 settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. (Exodus=20 40:34-35).

Many years later, the Tabernacle was replaced by a more permanent = structure.=20 Although build to the same general specifications, the Temple was made = instead=20 of wood and stone. When it was completed, the same thing happened as had = happened in the wilderness. The presence of God came.

And it came about when the priests came from the holy place, that = the=20 cloud filled the house of the Lord, 11 so that the = priests=20 could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the = Lord=20 filled the house of the Lord. (1 Kings = 8:10-11).

The thing that made the Tabernacle and the Temple so special was the = presence=20 of God. Without that, they were just another building.

The prophet Ezekiel records a number of visions which he had = concerning the=20 glory of the Lord. At the beginning of these visions, the glory of the = Lord is=20 seen residing within the Temple and specifically between the cherubim = (Ezekiel=20 9:3). As Ezekiel watches, the glory of the Lord moves to the threshold = of the=20 Temple (Ezekiel 9:3; 10:3). From there it moves to the east gate = (Ezekiel 10:19)=20 and finally out to the mountain which is to the east of the city = (Ezekiel=20 11:23). This was a sign of God=92s judgment. The glory of the Lord = departed and it=20 was not long after this that the Temple was destroyed.

Here is the point. Do you remember how Jesus came to Jerusalem on the = week in=20 which He was crucified? The Biblical account is very specific. He came = by way of=20 the Mount of Olives - the mountain directly east of the city; the = mountain over=20 which the glory of the Lord had last been seen in Ezekiel=92s = vision.

The coming of Jesus to the Temple was the return of the King to His=20 sanctuary. He came cleansing the Temple. But more importantly, He came = to=20 provide a cleansing for all men. In this sense, He not only cleansed the = Temple,=20 He IS the temple. It is in Him that men are able to approach=20 God.

2. The Outer Tabernacle.

The Sanctuary proper was divided into two parts. There was an inner = part and=20 an outer part. They were separated by a thick inner veil. The outer = Tabernacle=20 was the scene of daily activity. Into this section would come a priest = each=20 morning and each evening.

3. The Lampstand.

When we think of the Lampstand, we normally think in terms of a = menorah. The=20 Lampstand within the later Temple almost certainly had this appearance. = It is=20 shown in such a manner on Titus=92 Arch of Triumph in Rome which = pictures Jewish=20 captives being forced to carry the golden lampstand as a part of the = Roman=20 spoils of war.

But the original lampstand in the Tabernacle may have looked quite = different.=20 It was formed in the shape of a tree.

Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and = its base=20 and its shaft are to be made of hammered work; its cups, its bulbs and = its=20 flowers shall be of one piece with it.

Six branches shall go out from its sides; three branches of the = lampstand=20 >from its one side and three branches of the lampstand from its other = side.

Three cups shall be shaped like almond blossoms in the one branch, a = bulb and=20 a flower, and three cups shaped like almond blossoms in the other = branch, a bulb=20 and a flower -- so for six branches going out from the lampstand; 34 and in the lampstand four cups shaped like almond = blossoms, its=20 bulbs and its flowers. (Exodus = 35:31-34).

Notice the reference to bulbs and flowers and almond blossoms. The = lampstand=20 represented a living thing. And even the stylized lampstand of later = years had=20 the same representation. What did the lampstand represent? =

    • It represented the One who is the light of the world (John=20 8:12).
    • It represented those who follow that light. This can be seen in = John=92s=20 vision in the book of Revelation. John first hears a voice at the = beginning=20 of his vision and he turns and he sees a = lampstand.

And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And = having turned=20 I saw seven golden lampstands; 13 and in the = middle of the=20 lampstands one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the = feet, and=20 girded across His breast with a golden girdle. (Revelation=20 1:12-13).

Notice that in John=92s vision there is not a single lampstand with = seven=20 branches, but seven separate lampstands. This symbolism is explained in = verse=20 20.

As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right = hand, and=20 the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven = churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. (Revelation=20 1:20).

Do you see who the lampstands represent? They represent YOU. They = represent=20 the churches of God.

The lampstand brought light to the Temple. But the lampstand itself = was not=20 the source of the light. The source of the light was the oil which was = retained=20 in the various bulbs and cups and flowers on the lampstand. These were = oil=20 lamps. The Jews had an annual celebration called Hanukkah - the Feast of = Lights.=20 It was a time of commemoration of the cleansing of the Temple in the = days of the=20 Maccabees. The story was told of how there had been only enough oil to = last for=20 a single day, but how it had miraculously lasted for an entire week = until more=20 could be brought.

The lampstand did not provide the light. It only held the oil that = provided=20 the light. And in the same way, the church does not in itself provide = the light.=20 It is only as the church is filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit that = light is=20 provided.

4. The Table and the Sacred Bread.

The table of shewbread was a wooden table overlaid with gold. Onto = this=20 table, the priests would lay out 12 loaves of bread. Why twelve? I = believe that=20 it was because these also served a double representation.

On the one hand, they look at the One who would be the Bread of Life = (John=20 6:41). Jesus is that One who provides spiritual nourishment for our = souls. His=20 body which is broken for us is represented by broken bread which is = eaten. It is=20 not by chance that He was born in Bethlehem, a town whose name means = "the House=20 of Bread."

On the other hand, these 12 loaves also represent the 12 tribes of = Israel -=20 God=92s people - the church. We collectively are the body of Christ as = we are in=20 union with Him.

5. The second veil.

The reason that this is called the second veil is because there was a = first=20 veil. The first veil was located at the door of the Tabernacle. It = separated the=20 outside from the inside. Beyond this veil and past the golden lampstand = and the=20 table of shewbread was the second veil. It served to separate the Holy = Place=20 >from the innermost sanctum - the Holy of Holies.

Embroidered on the veil were the images of cherubim. They served as = guardians=20 of the veil, keeping even the priests from entering in. They are = reminiscent of=20 the cherubim stationed at the entrance to the Garden of Eden. They were=20 stationed with a flaming sword in order to keep out all who might = enter.

Do you remember what happened to the veil when Jesus died? It was = torn from=20 top to bottom (Luke 23:45). The Scriptures do not say who did the = tearing, but=20 the fact that it was from top to bottom tells us that it was no human = hand that=20 did this. It was the hand of God who was letting us know by this outward = sign=20 that the way into the presence of God had been opened.

6. The Holy of Holies.

When you want to emphasis something in Hebrew, you do it by means of=20 repetition. You can find a number of examples of this:

"Truly, truly" (John 3:3).

"Woe, woe" (Ezekiel 16:23).

"The song of songs, which is Solomon=92s" (SS 1:1).

This was a designation for the most holy place of all. It was the = holiest of=20 holies. It was the innermost sanctum of the Tabernacle. It=92s = dimensions were in=20 the form of a perfect cube measuring 10 cubits by 10 cubits by 10 = cubits.

Notice that these are essentially the same dimensions of the New = Jerusalem as=20 described in Revelation 21:16. Instead of 10 cubits on a side, it is = 12,000=20 stadia by 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia.

7. The golden altar of incense.

The altar of incense was a cubit wide and a cubit long and two cubits = in=20 height. It was overlaid in gold. Although technically it was located = outside the=20 veil which separated the holy place from the holy of holies, it was = associated=20 with the veil and the ark.

"And you shall put this altar in front of the veil that is near = the ark of=20 the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is over the ark of the = testimony,=20 where I will meet with you.

"And Aaron shall burn fragrant incense on it; he shall burn it every = morning=20 when he trims the lamps.

"And when Aaron trims the lamps at twilight, he shall burn incense. = There=20 shall be perpetual incense before the Lord throughout your generations." = (Exodus=20 30:6-8).

Incense was offered upon this altar every morning and every evening. = This=20 incense created a sweet-smelling aroma. It would sweeten the entire = Temple. The=20 smoke of this incense represented the sweet prayers of God=92s people = ascending to=20 heaven.

8. The Ark of the Covenant

...the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which = was a=20 golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron=92s rod which budded, and the = tables of=20 the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of = glory=20 overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in = detail.=20 (Hebrews 9:4-5).

The Ark was the most holy part of the Temple. It was called the ark = of the=20 covenant because it held the covenental tablets within. It also held the = rod of=20 Aaron which had budded and thereby given evidence that it was Aaron=92s = household=20 who were to serve and the priests of Israel. And it held a golden jar of = manna,=20 the food with which God had preserved His people in the wilderness.

 

THE INNER TABERNACLE

Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are = continually=20 entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship, 7 but into the second, only the high priest enters once = a year,=20 not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins = of the=20 people committed in ignorance. (Hebrews=20 9:6-7).

Priests entered into the Temple every morning and every evening to = offer the=20 morning incense and the evening incense. Once a week they would enter to = change=20 the bread on the Table of Shewbread. These were acts of prayer and of = worship.=20 But these priests were not permitted to go any further than the inner = veil. Only=20 one priest was allowed to pass beyond the veil. He was the high priest. = And he=20 was only permitted to do so once a year.

It would be on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement that the High Priest = would=20 pass through the veil and into the holy of holies. He would approach the = Ark of=20 the Covenant. Upon the top of the Ark was a lid of solid gold. This was = known as=20 the Mercy Seat. The images of two cherubim face the center of the Ark. = They were=20 silent guardians of the presence of God.

The high priest would sprinkle the blood of sacrificed animals upon = the Mercy=20 Seat. By this he was providing an atonement for the sins of the entire=20 nation.

 

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE SACRIFICE

The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy = place has=20 not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, = 9 which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly = both gifts=20 and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in=20 conscience, 10 since they relate only to food and = drink and=20 various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of = reformation.=20 (Hebrews = 9:8-10).

Now we come to the significance of the ritual which was practiced = each year=20 by the Jewish high priest. The fact that the blood of an animal served = as a=20 continuing sacrifice meant that the way into the presence of God had not = yet=20 been made open.

No mere animal=92s death could ever take away sins. No mere = animal=92s blood=20 could ever take away guilt. Such rituals were only temporary - looking = forward=20 to a time of reformation.

The word translated "symbol" in verse 9 is from the Greek . It is = related to=20 our word "parable." You know what a parable is. It is an earthly story = thrown up=20 along side a spiritual reality to further illustrate it.

That is was the Tabernacle was all about. The Tabernacle was a = physical=20 structure which was built to teach spiritual realities. It was a = physical=20 parable of Jesus and the cross. But once you have learned the truth = behind the=20 parable, it is inappropriate to reject that truth while holding only to = the=20 parable.

 

A BETTER TABERNACLE AND BETTER BLOOD

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to = come, He=20 entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with = hands,=20 that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not = through the=20 blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the = holy place=20 once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. (Hebrews=20 9:11-12).

Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament sacrificial system. He = did=20 what the high priest could only symbolize. He entered into heaven = itself.

High = Priest

Jesus Christ

A high priest of the old Aaronic priesthood

The High Priest of the good things to come

Entered the Tabernacle made with hands

Entered the greater and more perfect tabernacle

Entered with blood of goats and calves

Entered with His own blood

Every year he had to repeat the same sacrifice

He entered the holy place once for = all

Jesus entered through the greater and more perfect=20 tabernacle. What is this greater and more perfect Tabernacle?

    • It is that tabernacle that was not made with = hands.
    • It is that tabernacle which is not of this = creation.

It is heaven! The earthly tabernacle is merely a copy and a pattern = of the=20 heavenly reality. Every picture that we are given in the Bible of heaven = is=20 described in terms of the tabernacle and the Temple.

Jesus did something that no other high priest ever did. He entered = into=20 heaven itself to minister a sacrifice. He WAS the sacrifice. He = ministered as=20 both the priest and the offering. The blood which He offered was His = own.

 

A CLEANSING THAT CLEANSES

For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer = sprinkling=20 those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, = 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through = the eternal=20 Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience = >from dead=20 works to serve the living God? (Hebrews=20 9:13-14).

Now we come to our last comparison. It is a comparison of the weak = and the=20 strong. The point is if that which was intrinsically weak was able to = accomplish=20 something, then how much more will that which is intrinsically stronger = be able=20 to accomplish.

That which is = Weak

That which is Stronger

If the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer=20 sprinkling...

How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal = spirit=20 offered Himself...

Sanctifies for the cleansing of the flesh.

Cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living=20 God.

The old system provided an outward cleansing of the flesh - a ritual=20 cleansing. But the New Covenant provides much more. It cleanses from the = inside=20 out. It cleanses your conscience. It provides a real and lasting = forgiveness. It=20 changes a man=92s very nature.

    • The old system said: "If anyone will make a sacrifice, he can = become=20 ritually cleansed on the outside."
    • The New Covenant says: "If anyone be in Christ, he has become a = new=20 creature."

Notice the movement of the passage. It goes from death to life. The = most that=20 the Law could ever do was to bring about a ritual cleansing. But Christ = does so=20 much more. He cleanses you from the inside out. The result is not that = you might=20 go out and "live as you please" but rather that you might go out and = live as HE=20 pleases =97 that you might serve the living God.

 

------=_NextPart_000_0140_01C841D1.ABB7D120-- From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:40 EST 2007 Article: 1235175 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235175 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!news-out.readnews.com!news-xxxfer.readnews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com> <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> <13mc0arjd6t0q49@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: WAS THERE REALLY HOLOCAUST Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198037708 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:15:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:15:08 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:15:08 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:CNSdnZOHyqvFvfXanZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com... > Snow wrote: >> >> >> "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message >> news:oZCdnTWnaZD7IfranZ2dnUVZ_tGonZ2d@giganews.com... >>> >>> "Snow" wrote in message >>> news:kkF9j.83928$YL5.64666@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... >>>> >>>> >>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>> news:13mc0arjd6t0q49@corp.supernews.com... >>>>> In article <7wl9j.80494$Um6.28656@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, >>>>> Leading Revisionist Coward Snow wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>>>> news:13mbln716eg6154@corp.supernews.com... >>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>> Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the Connecticut Coward, >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> NUMBERS OF VICTIMS DON'T ADD UP >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world >>>>>>>> Jewish >>>>>>>> population was >>>>>>>> 15,688,259. The Almanacs figures were supplied by the American >>>>>>>> Jewish >>>>>>>> Committee. Nest the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alas for poor Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the World Almanac of >>>>>>> 1947 >>>>>>> *also* clearly >>>>>>> states that it's Jewish population figures were taken from PRE-WAR >>>>>>> census >>>>>>> data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Funny Leading Revisionist Liar Snow hasn't seen fit to mention that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Funny was your face before you got a haircut. >>>>>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_Kenneth_McVay.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> Don’t shoot the messenger. Its obvious I copied and pasted the >>>>>> article >>>>>> unless you are too high to notice that. If you have objections to the >>>>>> article feel free to take it out with the article composer Dr. E. R. >>>>>> Fields >>>>>> which I doubt you will. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, Leading Revisionist Scholar Snow, the Coward of >>>>> Connecticut, for admitting >>>>> that you cut and paste lies. >>>> >>>> Once again, I admitted to copy and paste the article, You are such a >>>> coward that you won't take it out with original composer because you >>>> know he will chew your ass and your mumblings. After all he is a Dr. >>>> and you are a gas attendant. Feel free to take it out on me though >>>> because the article doesn’t fit your Zionist agenda. I am going to do >>>> you a big favor and compose an email to Dr. Fields saying NIZKOR >>>> directors says its all lies, because you are too afraid to do it, I did >>>> for you. >>> >>> These twerps do nothing but cut and paste their nonsense. >>> >>> What I find remarkably stupid, is they use each other's websites as >>> references to back up each other's nonsense. >>> >>> Deceitful turds, them. >> >> >> That’s amusing especially since nizko and holocausthistory both use same >> logo and graphic even, but if you would like to learn about holocaust >> revisionism nizkor website is a good place to start. >> > No they don't. > > Why do you lie like this? The logos are very similar. dark background splash or whatever it is with the name on top of it > > -Sara >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> It really wasn't necessary, however, as your track record procedeth >>>>> you: >>>>> >>>>> Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention >>>>> inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you >>>>> the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions >>>>> with documentary evidence. >>>>> >>>>> Question 1: >>>>> >>>>> On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: >>>>> , >>>>> you made the claim: >>>>> >>>>> 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. >>>>> >>>>> http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - >>>>> >>>>> Please document your claim or retract it. >>>>> >>>>> Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." >>>>> >>>>> Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal >>>>> gassings are a "myth." >>>>> >>>>> Question 3: >>>>> >>>>> On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they >>>>> could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to >>>>> whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." >>>>> >>>>> Please document these claims or retract them. >>>>> >>>>> Question 4: >>>>> >>>>> On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated >>>>> that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically >>>>> anti-Semite." >>>>> >>>>> Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which >>>>> I made such a statement. >>>>> >>>>> Question 5: >>>>> >>>>> In article , >>>>> >>>>> you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free >>>>> speech >>>>> rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent >>>>> the >>>>> teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as >>>>> "Revisionism" -- and won." >>>>> >>>>> Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by >>>>> Jews" as >>>>> you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: >>>>> >>>>> Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, >>>>> Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. >>>>> In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then >>>>> 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting >>>>> hatred against an identifiable group by communicating >>>>> anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by >>>>> a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of >>>>> Queen's Bench. >>>>> >>>>> Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil >>>>> qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as >>>>> ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', >>>>> ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He >>>>> taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy >>>>> Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, >>>>> chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews >>>>> ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast >>>>> to the open and honest Christians, were said to be >>>>> deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra >>>>> expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class >>>>> and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. >>>>> >>>>> Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of >>>>> Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on >>>>> a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of >>>>> the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of >>>>> expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among >>>>> the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the >>>>> defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates >>>>> the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was >>>>> dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter >>>>> tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the >>>>> Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. >>>>> The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and >>>>> it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. >>>>> >>>>> The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, >>>>> Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, >>>>> Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, >>>>> Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund >>>>> (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the >>>>> Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has >>>>> intervened in support of striking down the impugned >>>>> legislation. >>>>> >>>>> Question 6: >>>>> >>>>> In article , you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are >>>>> written by >>>>> Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." >>>>> >>>>> Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all >>>>> "Holocaust >>>>> supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the >>>>> authors. >>>>> >>>>> Question 7: >>>>> >>>>> On July 30, 2007, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi >>>>> Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't >>>>> deal directly with Nazi Germany. >>>>> >>>>> "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy >>>>> companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people >>>>> didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." >>>>> >>>>> Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" >>>>> involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank >>>>> owners." >>>>> >>>>> Question 8: >>>>> >>>>> On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust >>>>> supporting >>>>> articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." >>>>> >>>>> Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include >>>>> a >>>>> comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their >>>>> authors, >>>>> and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by >>>>> Jewish organizations." >>>>> >>>>> Question 9: >>>>> >>>>> On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members >>>>> who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are >>>>> the forefront of such edits." >>>>> >>>>> Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews >>>>> being in the "forefront of such edits." >>>>> >>>>> Question 10: >>>>> >>>>> On August 5, 2007, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ >>>>> >>>>> ...and... >>>>> >>>>>> KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people >>>>>> would >>>>>> associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could >>>>>> cash >>>>>> in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools >>>>>> of >>>>>> propaganda) >>>>> >>>>> Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what >>>>> we >>>>> find, shall we? >>>>> >>>>> In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find >>>>> the Polish >>>>> Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary >>>>> Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination >>>>> Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of >>>>> their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting >>>>> and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five >>>>> hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of >>>>> the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such >>>>> as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, >>>>> Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." >>>>> >>>>> In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 >>>>> we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates >>>>> were gassed at Maidanek." >>>>> >>>>> (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow >>>>> notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, >>>>> he is lying - again.) >>>>> >>>>> The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar >>>>> (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* >>>>> were murdered there. >>>>> >>>>> The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on >>>>> Majdanek written by >>>>> Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 >>>>> passed >>>>> through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 >>>>> died, >>>>> sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, >>>>> hanging, >>>>> or being shot." >>>>> >>>>> Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the >>>>> victims were Jews. >>>>> >>>>> Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: >>>>> >>>>> "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this >>>>> article >>>>> (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of >>>>> the >>>>> transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd >>>>> appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to >>>>> determine >>>>> if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." >>>>> >>>>>> KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>>>>> associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could >>>>>> cash >>>>>> in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools >>>>>> of >>>>>> propaganda) >>>>> >>>>> Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, >>>>> now tha they have been exposed. >>>>> >>>>> Question 11: >>>>> >>>>> In article , on August >>>>> 15, >>>>> 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a >>>>> pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." >>>>> >>>>> Please document when and where any of my children have >>>>> made such statements or admit you cannot. >>>>> >>>>> Question 12: >>>>> >>>>> In article , posted on >>>>> August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: >>>>> >>>>> "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." >>>>> >>>>> Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all >>>>> means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, >>>>> in and of itself, a crime. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail But you >>>>> people did hang him after that" >>>>> (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Moron) >>>>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/ >>>> >>> From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:23:40 EST 2007 Article: 1235176 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235176 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com> <13mft7bmbubn69b@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Holocaust Summary. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198037473 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:11:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:11:13 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:11:13 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mft7bmbubn69b@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, the Coward from Connecticut, > wrote: > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13meatk3fl7fr39@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article , >>> Leading Revisionist Liar Snow, a Connecticut Coward, >>> wrote: >>> >>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>>news:13mc0j1p5t4bi4b@corp.supernews.com... >>>>> In article , >>>>> Snow wrote: >>>>>>-=-=-=-=-=- >>>>>> >>>>>>So let me get this straight. >>>>>>The soap made out of Jews is not true. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/soap-01.html >>> >>>>Back in the day soap was made out of bones, usually animal bones but the >>>>labs also experimented with humans as they do now. But it didn’t happen >>>>in >>>>any work camp, neither did it happen in mass quantities. So you can >>>>shove >>>>your Danzig lab example up your ass. >>> >>> In short, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow concedes that soap was made from >>> human remains by the NAZIs during WWII. > >>So did French, English, Dutch, Russian and many other modern labs. Lab >>stands for Laboratory and that is the place where experiments take place. >>I >>bet there is a lab in Canada also. So this has NOTHING to do with WORK >>CAMPS > > Who said it did, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow? Who said it did? Wiesenthal did and also you are a director of a website for work camp memories and your website mentions soap. So if it has nothing to do with work camps. Why is it on your website. and why did Wiesenthal lied. > >>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >>>> >>>>This is just funny. There is no evidence or proof that work camps >>>>victims >>>>were skinned and used to lamp shades. Just because some lamp shade had a >>>>tattoo design on it doesn’t mean it came from a Jewish prisoner in work >>>>camp. >>> >>> Who said it came from a Jewish prisoner, LRS Snow? >> >>So it has nothing to do with WORK CAMPS or JEWS, so why you even bring it >>up >>then. > > Why indeed DID you bring it up, Leading Revisionist Liar Snow? > > Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention > inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you > the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions > with documentary evidence. > > Question 1: > > On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: > , > you made the claim: > > 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. > > http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - > > Please document your claim or retract it. > > Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: > > "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." > > Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal > gassings are a "myth." > > Question 3: > > On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they > could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to > whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." > > Please document these claims or retract them. > > Question 4: > > On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated > that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." > > Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which > I made such a statement. > > Question 5: > > In article , > > you wrote: > > "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free > speech > rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the > teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as > "Revisionism" -- and won." > > Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" > as > you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: > > Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, > Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. > In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then > 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting > hatred against an identifiable group by communicating > anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by > a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of > Queen's Bench. > > Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil > qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as > ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', > ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He > taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy > Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, > chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews > ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast > to the open and honest Christians, were said to be > deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra > expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class > and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. > > Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of > Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on > a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of > the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of > expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among > the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the > defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates > the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was > dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter > tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the > Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. > The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and > it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. > > The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, > Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, > Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, > Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund > (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the > Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has > intervened in support of striking down the impugned > legislation. > > Question 6: > > In article , you wrote: > > "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written > by > Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all > "Holocaust > supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. > > Question 7: > > On July 30, 2007, you wrote: > > "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi > Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't > deal directly with Nazi Germany. > > "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy > companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people > didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." > > Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" > involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank > owners." > > Question 8: > > On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust > supporting > articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a > comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their > authors, > and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by > Jewish organizations." > > Question 9: > > On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members > who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are > the forefront of such edits." > > Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews > being in the "forefront of such edits." > > Question 10: > > On August 5, 2007, you wrote: > >>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ > > ...and... > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we > find, shall we? > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the > Polish > Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary > Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination > Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of > their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting > and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five > hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of > the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such > as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, > Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 > we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates > were gassed at Maidanek." > > (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow > notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, > he is lying - again.) > > The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar > (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* > were murdered there. > > The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek > written by > Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed > through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, > sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, > hanging, > or being shot." > > Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims > were Jews. > > Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: > > "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article > (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the > transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd > appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to > determine > if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, > now tha they have been exposed. > > Question 11: > > In article , on August 15, > 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a > pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." > > Please document when and where any of my children have > made such statements or admit you cannot. > > Question 12: > > In article , posted on > August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: > > "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." > > Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. > > If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all > means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, > in and of itself, a crime. > > -- > "Keep singing lies, moron Negro! No wonder your kind > was hanged in the South in the old days!" (Szaki, Leading > Revisionist Scholar) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/ From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:31:38 EST 2007 Article: 379704 of soc.culture.german Xref: sn-us soc.culture.german:379704 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.german References: <13lqr87id9nje15@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Holocaust deniers are all liars, Mr. Snow. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1197412889 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:41:29 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:41:29 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BJ]Q]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:40:39 -0500 "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13lqr87id9nje15@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Leading Revisionist Scholar Snow wrote: > > [SteveHorn flushed down the grosvenor] > >>I think you are wrong, It's the Zionists and Zionist controlled countries >>that have no freedom. Remember not all Jews are Zionists just as not all >>Muslims are terrorists. > > But all Holocaust deniers are liars, aren't they, Mr. Snow? Of course Mr. McVay, do you still deny that Israel is causing harm to Palestine by limiting supplies of necessities such as food and water, electricity and education. > > Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, it would be unfair, not to mention > inconsiderate, for anyone to label you as a liar without giving you > the opportunity to respond by supporting your specious assertions > with documentary evidence. > > Question 1: > > On July 25, 2007, in Message-ID: > , > you made the claim: > > 1. That no one was gassed at Auschwitz or Majdanek. > > http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.revisionism/msg/8f1906744b2f80dd?dmode=source - > > Please document your claim or retract it. > > Question 2: On July 26, 2007, you wrote: > > "I am still having a problem with the myth of gassing the jews." > > Please support your assertion with documentary evidence that homocidal > gassings are a "myth." > > Question 3: > > On July 26, 2007, you claimed that, "jews come out with awards so they > could award other jews and it is all based on how much you paid and to > whom and actually has very little to do with achievements." > > Please document these claims or retract them. > > Question 4: > > On July 29, 2007, you claimed, "...McVay in one of the threads stated > that 'if you question holocaust then you are automatically anti-Semite." > > Please provide an exact Google Groups link to any article in which > I made such a statement. > > Question 5: > > In article , > > you wrote: > > "In 1931 Stromberg v. California, the Jews defended Communists' free > speech > rights. Six decades later, in R. v. Keegstra, the Jews sued to prevent the > teaching of an alternative to the Exterminationist theory known as > "Revisionism" -- and won." > > Please provide documentary evidence that Mr. Keegstra was "sued by Jews" > as > you claim, and show how the Supreme Court of Canada lied when it said: > > Mr. James Keegstra was a high school teacher in Eckville, > Alberta, from the early 1970's until his dismissal in 1982. > In 1984, Mr. Keegstra was charged under s. 319(2) (then > 281.2(2)) of the Criminal Code with unlawfully promoting > hatred against an identifiable group by communicating > anti-Semitic statements to his students. He was convicted by > a jury in a trial before McKenzie J. of the Alberta Court of > Queen's Bench. > > Mr. Keegstra's teachings attributed various evil > qualities to Jews. He thus described Jews to his pupils as > ''treacherous'', ''subversive'', ''sadistic'', > ''money-loving'', ''power hungry'' and ''child killers''. He > taught his classes that Jewish people seek to destroy > Christianity and are responsible for depressions, anarchy, > chaos, wars and revolution. According to Mr. Keegstra, Jews > ''created the Holocaust to gain sympathy'' and, in contrast > to the open and honest Christians, were said to be > deceptive, secretive and inherently evil. Mr. Keegstra > expected his students to reproduce his teachings in class > and on exams. If they failed to do so, their marks suffered. > > Prior to his trial, Mr. Keegstra applied to the Court of > Queen's Bench in Alberta for an order quashing the charge on > a number of grounds, the primary one being that s. 319(2) of > the Criminal Code unjustifiably infringed his freedom of > expression as guaranteed by s. 2(b) of the Charter. Among > the other grounds of appeal was the allegation that the > defence of truth found in s. 319(3)(a) of the Code violates > the Charter's presumption of innocence. The application was > dismissed by Quigley J., and Mr. Keegstra was thereafter > tried and convicted. He then appealed his conviction to the > Alberta Court of Appeal, raising the same Charter issues. > The Court of Appeal unanimously accepted his argument, and > it is from this judgment that the Crown appeals. > > The Attorneys-General of Canada, Quebec, Ontario, > Manitoba and New Brunswick, the Canadian Jewish Congress, > Interamicus, the League for Human Rights of B'nai Brith, > Canada, and the Women's Legal Education and Action Fund > (L.E.A.F.) have intervened in this appeal in support of the > Crown. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has > intervened in support of striking down the impugned > legislation. > > Question 6: > > In article , you wrote: > > "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust supporting articles are written > by > Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please prove your claim by providing data which supports it. List all > "Holocaust > supporting" articles and document the Jewish background of the authors. > > Question 7: > > On July 30, 2007, you wrote: > > "...it was actually American Jews that sold iron and oil to Nazi > Germany by using Sweden as a proxy since American jews couldn't > deal directly with Nazi Germany. > > "Sweden banks that financed it were run by Jews, as well as proxy > companies that were setup by jewish bank owners. Swedish people > didn't have a clue what was being done behind their backs." > > Please document these assertions, naming the "American Jews" > involved and the Swedish banks that were "setup by Jewish bank > owners." > > Question 8: > > On July 31, 2007, you asked, "Why is it that most if not all Holocaust > supporting > articles are written by Jews or are sponsored by Jewish organization." > > Please provide the data upon which you based these assertions. Include a > comprehensive list of "Holocaust supporting articles " and their > authors, > and show how each article is either written by a Jew or "sponsored by > Jewish organizations." > > Question 9: > > On August 1, 2007, you wrote, "[Wikipedia] is edited by members > who choose to exaggerate their own race or religion, and jews are > the forefront of such edits." > > Please document your claims - particularly the one about the Jews > being in the "forefront of such edits." > > Question 10: > > On August 5, 2007, you wrote: > >>Ken's website on Majdanek says 1.5 jews killed >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/maidanek/ > > ...and... > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the best light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Let's visit http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ and see what we > find, shall we? > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/commission-07, we find the > Polish > Commission (not Nizkor) saying, "The Polish-Soviet Extraordinary > Commission finds that during the four years the Majdanek Extermination > Camp was in existence the Hitlerite butchers, on the direct orders of > their criminal government, exterminated by means of wholesale shooting > and wholesale asphyxiation in gas chambers of about one million five > hundred thousand persons-Soviet prisoners of war, prisoners of war of > the former Polish army, and civilians of different nationalities, such > as Poles, Frenchmen, Italians, Belgians, Netherlanders, > Czechs, Serbs, Greeks, Croatians and a vast number of Jews." > > In http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?camps/maidanek/maidanek.01 > we find Snyder, who wrote "It is estimated that 1.5 million inmates > were gassed at Maidanek." > > (Snyder does NOT, the assertions of Leading Revisionist Scholar snow > notwithstanding, claim that all the victims were Jewish - that is, > he is lying - again.) > > The same archive cites Davidowitz (1,380,000 dead) and Sachar > (500,000 dead), while the IFZ is quoted as saying that 50,000 *Jews* > were murdered there. > > The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust is then cited, in a piece on Majdanek > written by > Lublin University's Zygmunt Mankowski, who wrote "close to 500,000 passed > through. Of those, according to current (1990) estimates, 360,000 died, > sixty percent from camp conditions, and forty percent from gassing, > hanging, > or being shot." > > Mankowski does not, contrary to your blather, claim that all the victims > were Jews. > > Now we get to the spot where NIZKOR says something, to wit: > > "I suspect it may be impossible to determine the numbers, but this article > (EoH) struck me as reasonable, if for no other reason its mention of the > transport records and the trials, plus the bibliographic data. I'd > appreciate it if someone would check the earlier sources cited to > determine > if any orignial source is offered, and get back to us." > >>KEN IS LYING!!! to put the holocaust in the bet light so people would >>associate the word HOLOCAUST with the JEWS and WW2 so then JEWS could cash >>in on HOLOCAUST by producing books, interviews, movies (all are tools of >>propaganda) > > Please retract your lies, Leading Revisionist Scholar snow, > now tha they have been exposed. > > Question 11: > > In article , on August 15, > 2007, you authored an article which claimed, quote, "Kenneth McVay a > pedophile and a child molester who molested his own daughter..." > > Please document when and where any of my children have > made such statements or admit you cannot. > > Question 12: > > In article , posted on > August 15, 2007, you made the following allegation: > > "NIZKOR's self appointed director Ken McVay involved in tax fraud." > > Document your allegation that I am involved in tax fraud, or retract it. > > If you believe that someone has committed such an offense, by all > means report to the federal authorites post haste. Not doing so is, > in and of itself, a crime. > > -- > "What did you say. Did the burry the train with the show wen > can you show us the buried train Sara. As you know seeing is beliving." > (Kurt Knoll, Kitimat, B.C.'s Leading Revisionist Scholar) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org/a From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:31:38 EST 2007 Article: 379754 of soc.culture.german Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597404 soc.culture.german:379754 soc.culture.jewish:1801073 soc.culture.israel:1662496 alt.revisionism:1233369 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000 Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_2g8j.5278$NY.2764@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197575482 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: TSU[@ION_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:50:27 -0500 "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com... > > Majdanek Death Statistics > When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet > Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been > murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg International > Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in > November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million. > > In December 2005, the Majdanek Museum announced that Lublin scholar Tomasz > Kranz has established that the Nazis murdered 78,000 people at the > Majdanek > concentration camp. This revision is the culmination of years of research > in > which the number of deaths at Majdanek has steadily dwindled down to only > a > fraction of the original estimate by the Soviet liberators. > > http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/DeathStatistics.html > > > > During the Communist regime, which lasted until 1989, all Polish citizens > were encouraged to go on government-sponsored group tours to the former > Nazi > concentration camps as part of their indoctrination in hatred of the > opponents of Communism. According to the tour guide, Polish schools taught > a > censored version of history during the Communist rule, leaving out such > details as the Russian invasion of Poland in 1920, but emphasizing the > crimes of the Nazi Fascists. > > > > http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek.html > > > > so true. Polish educational system thought us that Russians are liberators and we even had to learn Russian song and some Russian poem. They didn’t teach us that Red Army invaded Poland, but liberated Poles. Also Katyn massacre was thought as a Nazi crime. As far as work camp data, I don't trust communist data as it was plain propaganda and numbers were exaggerated. Now even though the number had been lowered, Zionist will still claim 6 million victims as I learned recently the number has some religions meaning to Jews. Again if I could ask Mr. McVay to break down 6 million number, I would really appreciate it. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:31:38 EST 2007 Article: 379766 of soc.culture.german Xref: sn-us soc.culture.german:379766 alt.revisionism:1233430 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism References: Subject: Re: German Wikipedia censored, charges filed - Yahoo charged by French court Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1197589301 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:41:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:41:41 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:40:44 -0500 "ZULU" wrote in message news:fjsbm8$3i7$1@aioe.org... > Doomdsay Cultist wrote: > >> Lawmaker pulls Nazi symbol charges >> >> Fri Dec 7, 12:44 PM ET >> >> BERLIN (Reuters) - A left-wing German politician withdrew charges >> against online encyclopedia Wikipedia on Friday for promoting the use >> of banned Nazi symbols in Germany. >> >> >> Katina Schubert, a deputy leader of the far-left Left party, had filed >> the charges with Berlin police Thursday. He argued that Wikipedia's >> German language site contained too much Nazi symbolism, particularly >> an article on the Hitler Youth movement. >> >> Schubert said Friday she had spoken to Wikimedia Deutschland, which >> promotes the Internet lexicon in Germany, and had decided not to >> pursue the case even though she still believed neo-Nazis could take >> advantage of such sites. >> >> "Filing charges is obviously the wrong path to go down in this dispute >> so I am today withdrawing them after intensive discussions with >> Wikimedia," Schubert said in a statement on the Left party's web site. >> >> She noted most of the symbols linked to the Hitler Youth had been >> removed from the website. >> >> Wikimedia Deutschland had rejected the accusations and said the >> symbols were clearly used for educational and documentational >> purposes. >> >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071207/od_nm/wikipedia1_dc_1;_ylt=AkfWGokDEGLspXO.2VCpKYcE1vAI > > > Yahoo Nazi Memorabilia Ruling Overturned > > August 26th, 2004 by Loren Baker > > A US appeals court ruled this week that a lower tribunal had no right to > decide a case brought against US internet giant Yahoo by two French groups > trying to halt online sales of Nazi memorabilia. Documents showed on > Wednesday that the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco ruled > Monday that a US district court was premature in making a 2000 decision in > the case that went in Yahoo’s favor. > > The French associations, La Ligue Contre le Racisme et l’Antisemetisme > (The League against Racism and Anti-Semitism — LICRA) and L’Union des > Etudiants Juifs de France (Jewish Students Union of France — UEJF) want to > stop Yahoo in the United States from allowing the sale of Nazi > memorabilia. > > The associations claim that French internet users can access such sales, > which break a French law banning the circulation of Nazi symbols and which > were removed by a French court order from Yahoo’s French site. The Ninth > Circuit appeals panel ruled 2-1 that the lower court should have held back > from ruling as the two groups had yet to file their cases in a US court in > their bid to collect a fine imposed by a French court. > > “Yahoo must wait for LICRA and UEJF to come to the United States to > enforce the French judgement before it is able to raise its First > Amendment claim. However it was not wrongful of the French organisations > to place Yahoo in this position,” wrote Judge Warren Ferguson. > > A French court in May 2000 ordered Yahoo to destroy all Nazi-related > messages, images and text on its California server within three months, > under penalty of a fine of 100,000 francs per day. Then Yahoo filed a > complaint in the US district court in San Francisco in December 2000 > asking the judge to declare the French court’s ruling unenforceable in the > United States as they breached the US Constitution’s First Amendment > guaranteeing freedom of expression. > > The court granted Yahoo’s request for a summary judgement in the case, > ruling that enforcement of the French court orders would violate Yahoo’s > First Amendment rights. > > http://www.searchenginejournal.com/wp-trackback.php?p=0818 > > 2006 01 14 > > French court wins anti-hate case against Yahoo > > SAN FRANCISCO, Jan 12, 2006 (AFP) - A US appeals court on Thursday threw > out a bid by Internet giant Yahoo to win immunity from paying fines > imposed by a French court over the firm's online sales of Nazi > memorabilia. > > But, ruling on a long-running case that pitted the US constitutional right > to freedom of expression against French anti-hate laws, the Ninth Circuit > Court of Appeals in San Francisco said it was very unlikely that the media > giant would ever have to stump up what could amount to millions of dollars > in fines. > > French court wins anti-hate case against Yahoo > > SAN FRANCISCO, Jan 12, 2006 (AFP) - A US appeals court on Thursday threw > out a bid by Internet giant Yahoo to win immunity from paying fines > imposed by a French court over the firm's online sales of Nazi > memorabilia. > > But, ruling on a long-running case that pitted the US constitutional right > to freedom of expression against French anti-hate laws, the Ninth Circuit > Court of Appeals in San Francisco said it was very unlikely that the media > giant would ever have to stump up what could amount to millions of dollars > in fines. > > Yahoo had sought in its suit filed five years ago to bar two Paris-based > rights groups from seeking to enforce two earlier French court orders > imposing fines on the Internet firm in the United States over sales of > Nazi items, which have since been halted. > > The groups, the League against Racism and Anti-Semitism and Jewish > Students Union of France, wanted to stop Yahoo from allowing the sale of > Nazi memorabilia, at least to French Internet users, which breaks a French > law banning the circulation of Nazi symbols. > > In 2000 a French court ordered Yahoo to remove the Nazi items from > availability to French users, and also ordered Yahoo to pay 100,000 francs > (US $18,500) a day in fines for each day that the items were available. > > In its US suit Yahoo contested the French court rulings, claiming that > they were a violation of its right to free speech under the US > constitution's first amendment. > > But in a six to five vote, the judges decided to toss out Yahoo's > complaint, while overturning a decision by a lower California court that > declared the French court decisions unenforceable. > > Three judges voted to dismiss the case because it is not "ripe" to be > considered by an American court, while the three other judges dismissed it > on the grounds that US courts did not have jurisdiction over the Jewish > groups. > > The judges noted that Yahoo's free-speech argument was "vague" and that > the firm had in any case "in large measure" voluntarily complied with the > French order to halt the offending auctions, making any violation of its > First Amendment rights moot. > > "Even if the measures Yahoo has already taken restrict access by American > Internet users to anti-Semitic materials, this has no bearing on Yahoo's > first amendment argument," the judges wrote. > > "By its own admission, Yahoo has taken these measures entirely of its own > volition," they wrote. > > But while rejecting the lower court's ruling that the French fines were > unenforceable in the United States, the judges said that the French court > orders of 2000 were very unlikely to ever be applied. > > "Enforcement of that penalty is extremely unlikely in the United States," > the judges wrote. "Enforcement is unlikely not because of the First > Amendment, but rather because of the general principle of comity under > which American courts do not enforce monetary fines or penalties awarded > by foreign courts." > > Yahoo representatives could not immediately be reached for comment on the > court's decision. > > http://www.stopracism.ca/pages/search.php?article_id=211 This is ridiculous. I remember when eBay prohibited sale of Nazi items. It is another thing to still manufacture such crap, probably some dumbass pressing Nazi buttons in the basement or garage or pressing swastika pins. But for example coins from that era and medals or military buttons from that era and I mean manufactured during 3rd Reich is a different story as such items are part of the history and shouldn’t be banned. Some of the rarest Nazi memorabilia reaches thousands of dollars. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:31:39 EST 2007 Article: 379771 of soc.culture.german Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597431 soc.culture.german:379771 soc.culture.jewish:1801167 soc.culture.israel:1662551 alt.revisionism:1233467 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> <13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000 Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com 1197603181 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:32:05 -0500 "ElParedon" wrote in message news:Kxl8j.37737$L%6.32149@bignews3.bellsouth.net... > > "Kurt Knoll" wrote in message > news:NXi8j.1702$_r2.171@pd7urf1no... >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>> >>>>Majdanek Death Statistics >>>>When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet >>>>Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been >>>>murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg >>>>International >>>>Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in >>>>November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million. >>> >>> Who cares? The Soviets were notoriously unable to come up with realistic >>> figures. >> >> So can't you Kenneth. > > Out of the 78,000, probabnly only about 20% were Jews > And they were managing the place From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:31:39 EST 2007 Article: 379965 of soc.culture.german Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597725 soc.culture.german:379965 soc.culture.jewish:1802149 soc.culture.israel:1663330 alt.revisionism:1234407 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com> <13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Nazi "Human skin" lampshades were NOT "actually goat skin" Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197861561 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:19:21 GMT "Joe Smokey Firestone" wrote in message news:kt09j.3820$JW4.570@trnddc05... > Can I ask you once simple question Mr. Mc Vay? Why General, and later > President Eisenhower never mentioned anything in his memoir about the > holocaust and the gas Chambers. He was very close to the war, he was the > allied commander who was informed about all the intelligence traffic that > reached his desk. Why President Truman never mentioned anything about the > gas chambers since he was the sitting president and vice president during > the entire war. In Truman Memoir, he was very angry at the creation of the > Jewish state. He felt it will be the disaster the will seal the American > Foreign policy around the world. the Jews must survive on their own, we > can't remain silent to the forgeries and lies they presented us for the > past 60 years. > > Joe Smokey Firestone Looks like Mr. McVay doesn't have answers for your question but yet found time to reply to ElPadron. Perhaps Mr. McVay is having difficult time doing the Google research because I doubt he ever visited a library or read a book even, although you never know, perhaps he is one well read gas attendant. > > > > "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message ter that yet > to news:13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com... >> In article <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com>, >> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>According to Jean Edward Smith in his biography, "Lucius D. Clay, an >>>American Life," the general maintained that the leather lamp shades were >>>really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by General >>>Clay years later: >> >> You're not very good at this, are you? >> >> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >> >> >> Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps >> Last-Modified: 1997/01/03 >> >> Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 6 >> >> [Page 123] >> >> COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS >> >> SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY >> APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y. >> >> Section of Pathology >> 25 May 1945 >> >> SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides >> >> TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army) >> >> (ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) >> >> 1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for >> examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin >> from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case >> 81 T.J.A. >> >> [Page 124] >> >> 2. The description follows: >> >> GROSS: Specimen consists of three pieces of skin >> labeled A.B.C. >> >> PIECE A: Measures 13x13cm., is transparent and >> shows a woman's head in the center and a sailor >> with an anchor near the margin. >> >> PIECE B: Measures 14x13cm., is transparent and is >> a tattoo of several anchors resting on an >> indefinite black mass. To the right of this mass >> is a man's head. >> >> PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44cm. At the >> base. The upper portion is 30 cm. Long and the >> sides measure 46 cm. The skin is transparent and >> shows two nipples in the upper area. These are 16 >> cm. Apart. From the nipple level to the umbilicus >> is 23 « cm. A large bird, with a wingspread >> measuring 28 cm., is present in the center of the >> skin, upper part. A black dragon, with fire >> coming from the mouth, measures 28 cm. in length >> and is present in the center of the skin. To the >> left of the dragon is a man in a coat of mail, >> with a sword being apparently stuck in the dragon. >> Man is approximately 22 cm. in length. >> >> MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of >> collagen showing occasional epithelial and sweat >> gland remnants. Granular black pigment granules >> are seen between some of the bundles. >> >> 3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three >> specimens are tattooed human skin. >> >> For the Commanding Officer, >> >> [signed] REUBEN CARES >> Ruben Cares >> Major M.C., Chief of pathology >> >> >> >> -- >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.01 >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.02 > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:23 EST 2007 Article: 1800035 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597188 soc.culture.german:379483 soc.culture.jewish:1800035 soc.culture.israel:1661313 alt.revisionism:1232581 alt.gossip.royalty:415840 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,alt.gossip.royalty References: <9c7549af-e30d-42c7-8e50-5198559a6bc3@q3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <475b853c.148635484@news.tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: Cremator dumps half-burned bodies to save fuel Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com 1197224152 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:15:52 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 13:15:52 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 13:15:16 -0500 wrote in message news:475b853c.148635484@news.tiscali.co.uk... > On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:04:41 -0800 (PST), Doomsday Cultist > wrote: > >> Cremator dumps half-burned bodies to save fuel >> >>Fri Dec 7, 12:45 PM ET >> >>HONG KONG (Reuters) - China's worst fuel crunch in years has led a >>crematorium to dump half-burnt corpses to try saving on diesel costs, >>a Hong Kong newspaper said on Friday. >> >> >>Villagers in Hengyang county, in the southern province of Hunan, >>discovered the practice when an "unbearable stench" started coming >>from the site, and tried to block a road on Wednesday to stop funeral >>vehicles from delivering more bodies. >> >>The village sent people to investigate the smell and the South China >>Morning Post said they saw "crematorium workers putting half-burnt >>human remains and organs in plastic bags and throwing them into a >>nearby ditch." >> >>Fuel in many parts of the country was rationed and there were long >>queues at petrol stations. >> >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071207/od_nm/corpses_dc_1 >> >> >> >>Hmmm, it seems that it's not so easy to burn corpses, especially when >>fuel is rationed, like during WW II Europe. How did the Nazis manage >>to burn millions of bodies without leaving a trace? > > German technology, even back then, was superior to Chinese technology. > That;s how they managed to holocaust 6 million of us w/out a trace. > > Susan > yeah is this american propaganda talking, CHINESE ARE BEHIND, yet they managed to shoot a satelite into space and germans used to coal for body burning, LOL. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:23 EST 2007 Article: 1800179 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597219 soc.culture.german:379546 soc.culture.jewish:1800179 soc.culture.israel:1661482 alt.revisionism:1232736 alt.gossip.royalty:415849 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,alt.gossip.royalty References: <9c7549af-e30d-42c7-8e50-5198559a6bc3@q3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> <475b853c.148635484@news.tiscali.co.uk> <475ce826.239492953@news.tiscali.co.uk> Subject: Re: Cremator dumps half-burned bodies to save fuel Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com 1197281555 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:12:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:12:35 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BD]\YIJYWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:11:54 -0500 wrote in message news:475ce826.239492953@news.tiscali.co.uk... > On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 13:15:16 -0500, "Snow" > wrote: > >> >> >> wrote in message >>news:475b853c.148635484@news.tiscali.co.uk... >>> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 07:04:41 -0800 (PST), Doomsday Cultist >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Cremator dumps half-burned bodies to save fuel >>>> >>>>Fri Dec 7, 12:45 PM ET >>>> >>>>HONG KONG (Reuters) - China's worst fuel crunch in years has led a >>>>crematorium to dump half-burnt corpses to try saving on diesel costs, >>>>a Hong Kong newspaper said on Friday. >>>> >>>> >>>>Villagers in Hengyang county, in the southern province of Hunan, >>>>discovered the practice when an "unbearable stench" started coming >>>>from the site, and tried to block a road on Wednesday to stop funeral >>>>vehicles from delivering more bodies. >>>> >>>>The village sent people to investigate the smell and the South China >>>>Morning Post said they saw "crematorium workers putting half-burnt >>>>human remains and organs in plastic bags and throwing them into a >>>>nearby ditch." >>>> >>>>Fuel in many parts of the country was rationed and there were long >>>>queues at petrol stations. >>>> >>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071207/od_nm/corpses_dc_1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Hmmm, it seems that it's not so easy to burn corpses, especially when >>>>fuel is rationed, like during WW II Europe. How did the Nazis manage >>>>to burn millions of bodies without leaving a trace? >>> >>> German technology, even back then, was superior to Chinese technology. >>> That;s how they managed to holocaust 6 million of us w/out a trace. >>> >>> Susan >>> >> >>yeah is this american propaganda talking, CHINESE ARE BEHIND, yet they >>managed to shoot a satelite into space and germans used to coal for body >>burning, LOL. > > Is English your first language? > > Susan > No it's not. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:23 EST 2007 Article: 1800333 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597258 soc.culture.german:379619 soc.culture.jewish:1800333 soc.culture.israel:1661596 alt.revisionism:1232819 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <05fede0d-09fd-4b27-8aa5-b18412b6a81f@e67g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> <689efb69-5547-4d06-b3fa-a96e43976ff5@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <13lqqihpmj0sf36@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: The holocaust and Israel, made in Hollywood Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_nk7j.6418$4q5.2419@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com 1197331066 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:57:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:57:46 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: S[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQMIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:57:03 -0500 "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13lqqihpmj0sf36@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Avenger wrote: > > [...] > >>During wars many people >>just go to other parts of the world and from a census published by jewish >>organisations it appears that the jewish population was actually higher >>than >>before the war. > > Please cite this "Jewish organization's census." > >>And remember, that I am not a "denier" who says it never happened but the >>figure of 6 million dead is a hoax and has more to do with the number 6 >>which has magical significance in the kabollah and had already been used >>in >>the past. > > He who asserts must prove. You have claimed that the figure is a hoax, and > it thus falls upon you to prove it. > > First, cite the historians who have offered the six million figure as > authoritative, then cite historians citing lower figures and demonstrate > how they are wrong. I am sorry if I am repeating myself but are you able to post the breakdown of 6 million figure because the documents recovered from Nazis surely don't add up to 6 million. > > -- > "this mite hold with the uneducated fools but any man > with brains will see it full of holes" ("Irving Supporter," > a Leading Revisionist Scholar) > http://www.nizkor.org From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:24 EST 2007 Article: 1801073 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597404 soc.culture.german:379754 soc.culture.jewish:1801073 soc.culture.israel:1662496 alt.revisionism:1233369 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000 Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_2g8j.5278$NY.2764@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197575482 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: TSU[@ION_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:50:27 -0500 "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com... > > Majdanek Death Statistics > When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet > Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been > murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg International > Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in > November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million. > > In December 2005, the Majdanek Museum announced that Lublin scholar Tomasz > Kranz has established that the Nazis murdered 78,000 people at the > Majdanek > concentration camp. This revision is the culmination of years of research > in > which the number of deaths at Majdanek has steadily dwindled down to only > a > fraction of the original estimate by the Soviet liberators. > > http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/DeathStatistics.html > > > > During the Communist regime, which lasted until 1989, all Polish citizens > were encouraged to go on government-sponsored group tours to the former > Nazi > concentration camps as part of their indoctrination in hatred of the > opponents of Communism. According to the tour guide, Polish schools taught > a > censored version of history during the Communist rule, leaving out such > details as the Russian invasion of Poland in 1920, but emphasizing the > crimes of the Nazi Fascists. > > > > http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek.html > > > > so true. Polish educational system thought us that Russians are liberators and we even had to learn Russian song and some Russian poem. They didn’t teach us that Red Army invaded Poland, but liberated Poles. Also Katyn massacre was thought as a Nazi crime. As far as work camp data, I don't trust communist data as it was plain propaganda and numbers were exaggerated. Now even though the number had been lowered, Zionist will still claim 6 million victims as I learned recently the number has some religions meaning to Jews. Again if I could ask Mr. McVay to break down 6 million number, I would really appreciate it. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:24 EST 2007 Article: 1801167 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597431 soc.culture.german:379771 soc.culture.jewish:1801167 soc.culture.israel:1662551 alt.revisionism:1233467 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> <13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000 Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com 1197603181 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:32:05 -0500 "ElParedon" wrote in message news:Kxl8j.37737$L%6.32149@bignews3.bellsouth.net... > > "Kurt Knoll" wrote in message > news:NXi8j.1702$_r2.171@pd7urf1no... >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>> >>>>Majdanek Death Statistics >>>>When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet >>>>Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been >>>>murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg >>>>International >>>>Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in >>>>November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million. >>> >>> Who cares? The Soviets were notoriously unable to come up with realistic >>> figures. >> >> So can't you Kenneth. > > Out of the 78,000, probabnly only about 20% were Jews > And they were managing the place From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:24 EST 2007 Article: 1801448 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1801448 alt.religion.christianity:384746 alt.bible:1278235 alt.revisionism:1233773 soc.culture.europe:597527 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197718882 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:41:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:41:22 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFEQR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:41:22 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... > Why were they "Christian" thugs? > > Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. > > Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? Yes it does. Personally never heard of Christian thugs. Did they have big crosses on their foreheads. But Christianity is being attacked lately left and right. First the news cant shut up about priests abuse then Zionists banned prayer and crosses in public places. the word GOD is also being banned. Zionists even went as far as trying to remove it from the money 'in GOD we trust, and from constitution. Family values are also being attacked. Republicans, many are Zionists are loosing Christian voting base. Its Sodoma and Gomora here in USA. modern Babylon. PS. its all strange, will reply to this post within hours such a looser he is, he is predictable. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:24 EST 2007 Article: 1802056 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802056 soc.culture.israel:1663253 alt.revisionism:1234330 soc.veterans:391356 alt.military.retired:349490 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,soc.veterans,alt.military.retired References: <13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Israeli bastards murdered US sailors - USS Liberty attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1197848410 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:40:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:40:10 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@@S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:40:10 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com... > "I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through > diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't > believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was > outrageous " > > -- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk > > > http://www.gtr5.com/ > > > On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and > brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and > naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge > that > this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden > for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. This > USS > Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory > of the 34 brave men who died. > > > > The Attack > > > After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly > aircraft over flights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of > Israel > attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was > identified as a US naval ship nine hours before the attack by Israeli > reconnaissance aircraft and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and > aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five > knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to > anyone. > > The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to > contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another > 174 > were wounded. The ship, a $40 Million Dollar state of the art signals > intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for > scrap. > > > The Cover Up > > > Despite a near-uniform consensus that the Israeli attack was made with > full > knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration > began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though individual administration > officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, > the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty > parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They > concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. > Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an > accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply > allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder. > > > Anti-Semitism and the Anti-American Apologists > . > > The USS Liberty Memorial site abhors the racist and ill-informed positions > taken by the Liberty Lobby, the American Free Press, and similar > anti-Semitic organizations. We repudiate their comments and oppose them in > every way. The campaign for accountability for the attack on USS Liberty > has > no room for hatemongers. We do not seek harmfor any country or people, > only > accountability for the criminal acts perpetrated against us. > > Nonetheless, the legion of pro-Israel, anti-American apologists, while > small, makes up for its lack of numbers and inability to mount any kind of > legitimate defense by launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone > who attempts to raise the issue of the attack being deliberate. These > anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Rather > they rely on "big lie" propaganda and attack anyone who questions the > Israeli position as being "anti-Semitic". > > For detailed information about the power of the pro-Israel lobby, please > read The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. See also, The Pro-Israel > Lobby. > > The Betrayal of American Veterans > . > Americans who volunteer for military service effectively write a blank > check, payable to "The United States of America," for an amount "up to and > including my life." The United States, in turn, promises to spend these > checks responsibly. That bargain implicitly includes a promise by the > United > States to seek retribution against anyone who harms them. In the case of > USS > Liberty, The United States of America is in default of its obligations. > > > > http://www.gtr5.com/ > failed black flag operation, that's all. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:25 EST 2007 Article: 1802083 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802083 alt.religion.christianity:384905 alt.bible:1278861 alt.revisionism:1234365 soc.culture.europe:597710 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854827 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:27:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:27:07 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:27:07 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:Z_idnStcg9mQIv7anZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:C3P8j.24512$4V6.7723@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message >> news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Why were they "Christian" thugs? >>> >>> Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. >>> >>> Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? >> >> >> Yes it does. Personally never heard of Christian thugs. Did they have big >> crosses on their foreheads. But Christianity is being attacked lately >> left and right. First the news cant shut up about priests abuse then >> Zionists banned prayer and crosses in public places. the word GOD is also >> being banned. Zionists even went as far as trying to remove it from the >> money 'in GOD we trust, and from constitution. >> Family values are also being attacked. Republicans, many are Zionists >> are loosing Christian voting base. Its Sodoma and Gomora here in USA. >> modern Babylon. >> >> PS. its all strange, will reply to this post within hours such a looser >> he is, he is predictable. > > He, RJ11, Tal Henry, Concerned Aussie, NoSpamAtAll, A little sanity are > all Ron JacobsOn. > > It's a legendary liar and also has raised the practice of making out of > context posts to an art form. > > I have the fuckwit (all of them) killfiled, although I get the occasional > message of his forwarded to me by colleagues. One doing the rounds at the > moment has me bankrupting a company, clearing off with the money and > knowing some woman I've never heard of. He will continue posting this > until some of the more gullible start believing it. He's a dreadful little > man and a disgusting human being. That he has Salzman et al in his "team" > does not surprise me one jot. > > I know he has attempted to contact people he assumes are myself and has > made a complete pig of himself. > > It's a complete fool. that is totally fucked up that these people will do anything to ruin someone's personal life. Its one thing for Sara to be involved in protests against Zundel or Irving but its another thing to try to ruin someone's personal life because of disagreement in the newsgroup. I see McVay saying 'snow from Connecticut' although I never mentioned my location, its obvious he intentionally looked up my IP and indeed it does say Connecticut. So if he or his followers intentionally looked up my IP, I am sure they tried to find more info on me and others. Rule number one, never share any personal information as these people are unpredictable and will do anything to ruin someone's career and personal life. It seems to go both way though as I heard Sara's elderly father had been receiving personal attacks. I don't understand why would anyone want to take it beyond this newsgroup. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:25 EST 2007 Article: 1802084 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us alt.bible:1278862 alt.revisionism:1234366 soc.culture.europe:597711 soc.culture.jewish:1802084 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.jewish References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <90K8j.65$0T3.3@trnddc08> Subject: Re: Lying Bigots Prove Their Insane Stupidy WAS: Smartarse Jewess Provokes Attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <7hk9j.31769$JD.26261@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854915 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:28:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:28:35 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:28:35 GMT wrote in message news:P8c9j.5909$c82.4558@trnddc01... > > Amazing how these jackasses can pretend they > know *anything* after getting this so completely > "bass ackwards" > > Susan > > On 15-Dec-2007, "Professor Bugsbomb" wrote: > >> "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message >> news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... >> > Why were they "Christian" thugs? >> > >> > Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. >> > >> > Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? >> >> And they wonder why no one likes them lol When the Brooklyn Hasids go >> on >> a >> rampage and riot, as they frequently do, they say there's a pogrom >> against >> them lol >> A jew is the type that while hitting you will be screaming that you're >> attacking him lol That is so true. A jew is the type who will spray paint a swastika on his door and will scream racism. lol. > > >> > "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message >> > news:13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com... >> >> Ignorant thug "christians" brutally attack a Jewish man >> >> who wished everyone a happy Hanukkah. >> >> >> >> Muslim man comes to their aid. >> >> >> >> http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0db7b365-a288-4708-857b-8bdb545cbd0f&vxChannel=PostNoAds&vxClipId=1458_209345&vxBitrate=700 From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:25 EST 2007 Article: 1802085 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802085 alt.bible:1278863 alt.revisionism:1234367 soc.culture.europe:597712 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854971 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:29:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:29:31 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:29:31 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... > In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, > Doomsday Cultist wrote: > > [...] > >>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. > > There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and > you hate Jews. > > You're welcome. You are a revisionist because you are a permanent member of this newsgroup alt.revisionism. > > -- > "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. > It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." > (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:25 EST 2007 Article: 1802088 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802088 alt.bible:1278867 alt.revisionism:1234369 soc.culture.europe:597714 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> <13m8dp6kuj3ul32@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197855225 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:45 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:33:45 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13m8dp6kuj3ul32@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Kurt Knoll wrote: >>All of them are liars Kenneth because you do not want the truth to come >>out. > > I agree, Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll. All Holocaust deniers are > indeed liars. Exactly and you lied that 99.99% of people know Irving. Isn't that right Mr. McVay. We all know I am a liar and make sure you remind everyone and don’t forget to post the questions for me. Thanks. > > 27 Statements Qualifying Kurt Knoll as the Intellectual Giant > of Holocaust Denial: > > 1. "Go and read what Professor Faurisson has to say about dissecting the > Holocaust. Could it be this was the reason why he was Assassinated > twice." <3c962a6e_2@binaries.vphos.net, Mar. 18, 2002> > > 2. "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail Bu you people > did hang him after that." 2007> > > 3. "No, I myself am not anti-Semitic, I just don't like Jews!" > > 4. "No wonder years after the war was over he found some more > diaries of Ann Frank and she did not know about it." > > 5. "By refinishion you i mean you on their side definetly you > opinons are." > > 6. "People want to know all the facts whatever they are true > or not." > > 7. "We all know it but they will have us believe they have > absolutely no influence on governments. Not believing it > would be anti emetic." > > 8. "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown > typewriter in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state > department about in 1940." > > 9. "Listen guy. Your holocuast industries is clear. For > another trik and I'll hold my scrotum in my mouth for as > long as it taks." > > 10. "If the holocaust critics are stupid it is because Jews > are at times outright corrupt. What is it really you do want > them to believe." > > 11. "Well the con you documents a single that I originated. > Give me the date of the posting and the title." > Nov. 7, 2007 > > 12. "Since all you knowledge is coming out of your holocaust > Fairydale book I will not your naivety holding against you." > > 13. "I am not stressed out since I can analyze your holohoax > in my urine." > > 14. "When I wend and stuck my penis in my ear, I know that I am right!" > > 15. "How do you do fact finding if you do not want to know anything." > Nov. 10, 2007 > > 16. "Looking who things proceed today is no longer what is right > or wrong but one side are you on." > > 17. "Perhaps if you could tell the truth others would not as all the > questions." > > > 18. "Hey Tony will there ever be a time when you can reply in > blain English." , Nov. 12, 2007 > > 19. "No, the holocaust is not about history it is about a Ukrainian > Sausage!" > > 20. "What's now as a cut and con artist you can not supply a honest > posting > showing the time and day including the heating of the posting so I can > check > it out a Google. , > > 21. "Studying the area is alright me questing therefore is studied by > whom." > Nov. 17, 2007 > > 22. "You are calling other that ask questions about the holocaust > despicable. > I suggest you take a very good look at yourself. What you have is false > bride > and nothing else." , Nov. 25, 2007 > > 23. "No Tony the procedure used by you holohoaxers has always be the same. > And this is search and destruct anyone that is in your hollow way." > , Nov. 26, 2007 > > 24. "Makes on wonder how much basic education and coming sense they have. > Or is their brain attached to a chewing gum." > , Dec. 1, 2007 > > 25. "Nanalize the Word all He facts. A brain will tell you what it means." > , Dec. 2007 > > 26. "Oh boy what kind of primitive mentality does he really have. > I sincerely hope his mom and Dad are not proud if it. What the > produced ended up as a vegetable." Dec. 9, > 2007 > > 27. "The coal mine did converted to a brewery. Guess what I was their best > customer making sure now was left half full," > <0RZ6j.11399$iU.8119@pd7urf2no>,, Dec. 9, 2007 > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>>>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. >>> >>> There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and >>> you hate Jews. >>> >>> You're welcome. >>> >>> -- >>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. >>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." >>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org >> >> > > > -- > "In the final analysis, one does not refute a closed system, a total > lie that is not refutable to the extent that its conclusions has > preceded any evidence." (Vidal-Naquet, Pierre. Assassins of Memory, > New York: Columbia University Press. p.81) From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:26 EST 2007 Article: 1802149 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597725 soc.culture.german:379965 soc.culture.jewish:1802149 soc.culture.israel:1663330 alt.revisionism:1234407 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com> <13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Nazi "Human skin" lampshades were NOT "actually goat skin" Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197861561 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:19:21 GMT "Joe Smokey Firestone" wrote in message news:kt09j.3820$JW4.570@trnddc05... > Can I ask you once simple question Mr. Mc Vay? Why General, and later > President Eisenhower never mentioned anything in his memoir about the > holocaust and the gas Chambers. He was very close to the war, he was the > allied commander who was informed about all the intelligence traffic that > reached his desk. Why President Truman never mentioned anything about the > gas chambers since he was the sitting president and vice president during > the entire war. In Truman Memoir, he was very angry at the creation of the > Jewish state. He felt it will be the disaster the will seal the American > Foreign policy around the world. the Jews must survive on their own, we > can't remain silent to the forgeries and lies they presented us for the > past 60 years. > > Joe Smokey Firestone Looks like Mr. McVay doesn't have answers for your question but yet found time to reply to ElPadron. Perhaps Mr. McVay is having difficult time doing the Google research because I doubt he ever visited a library or read a book even, although you never know, perhaps he is one well read gas attendant. > > > > "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message ter that yet > to news:13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com... >> In article <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com>, >> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>According to Jean Edward Smith in his biography, "Lucius D. Clay, an >>>American Life," the general maintained that the leather lamp shades were >>>really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by General >>>Clay years later: >> >> You're not very good at this, are you? >> >> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >> >> >> Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps >> Last-Modified: 1997/01/03 >> >> Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 6 >> >> [Page 123] >> >> COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS >> >> SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY >> APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y. >> >> Section of Pathology >> 25 May 1945 >> >> SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides >> >> TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army) >> >> (ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) >> >> 1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for >> examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin >> from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case >> 81 T.J.A. >> >> [Page 124] >> >> 2. The description follows: >> >> GROSS: Specimen consists of three pieces of skin >> labeled A.B.C. >> >> PIECE A: Measures 13x13cm., is transparent and >> shows a woman's head in the center and a sailor >> with an anchor near the margin. >> >> PIECE B: Measures 14x13cm., is transparent and is >> a tattoo of several anchors resting on an >> indefinite black mass. To the right of this mass >> is a man's head. >> >> PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44cm. At the >> base. The upper portion is 30 cm. Long and the >> sides measure 46 cm. The skin is transparent and >> shows two nipples in the upper area. These are 16 >> cm. Apart. From the nipple level to the umbilicus >> is 23 « cm. A large bird, with a wingspread >> measuring 28 cm., is present in the center of the >> skin, upper part. A black dragon, with fire >> coming from the mouth, measures 28 cm. in length >> and is present in the center of the skin. To the >> left of the dragon is a man in a coat of mail, >> with a sword being apparently stuck in the dragon. >> Man is approximately 22 cm. in length. >> >> MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of >> collagen showing occasional epithelial and sweat >> gland remnants. Granular black pigment granules >> are seen between some of the bundles. >> >> 3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three >> specimens are tattooed human skin. >> >> For the Commanding Officer, >> >> [signed] REUBEN CARES >> Ruben Cares >> Major M.C., Chief of pathology >> >> >> >> -- >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.01 >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.02 > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:26 EST 2007 Article: 1802724 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802724 soc.culture.israel:1663705 alt.revisionism:1234917 soc.veterans:391487 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,soc.veterans References: <13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com> <13maa1oopv67ua9@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Israeli bastards murdered US sailors - USS Liberty attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <9lQ9j.80679$Um6.11920@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197986245 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:57:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:57:25 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BL\QMIWIWTEPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:57:25 GMT "Jim Higgins" wrote in message news:13maa1oopv67ua9@corp.supernews.com... > Doomsday Cultist wrote: >> > > > Failed your bar-mitzvah *again*? You don't even rise to the level of dirt > on an Israeli's boot soles. > > -- > Civis Romanus Cum If it wasn't for American money Israelis would be walking barefoot and living in caves still. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:26 EST 2007 Article: 1802972 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802972 soc.culture.israel:1663855 alt.revisionism:1235078 soc.veterans:391536 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news3.google.com!out03a.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!in04.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism,soc.veterans References: <13ma90crvj2bs33@corp.supernews.com> <13maa1oopv67ua9@corp.supernews.com> <9lQ9j.80679$Um6.11920@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> <13mfr781fjsg6d5@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Israeli bastards murdered US sailors - USS Liberty attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198038563 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:29:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:29:23 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:29:23 GMT "I'm a 400lb big fat pig of a hog bodied German Potato eating Hun bitch" wrote in message news:e6ad82b5-cd05-4c57-9d79-9a7011a19211@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 18, 8:53 am, "Doomsday Cultist" > wrote: >> > If it wasn't for American money Israelis would be walking barefoot and >> > living in caves still. >> >> Gen. Patton's diary and his letters were published in 1974 by the >> Houghton >> Mifflin Company under the title The Patton Papers. >> >> After a visit to ruined Berlin, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945: >> "Berlin >> gave me the blues. We have destroyed what could have been a good race, >> and >> we are about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will >> be >> communist. It's said that for the first week after they took it (Berlin), >> all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could >> have >> taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed." >> >> Later diary entries and letters to his wife reiterate this same >> conclusion. >> On August 31 he wrote: "Actually, the Germans are the only decent people >> left in Europe. it's a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer the >> Germans." >> >> Most of the Jews swarming over Germany immediately after the war came >> from >> Poland and Russia, and Patton found their personal habits shockingly >> uncivilized. >> >> He was disgusted by their behavior in the camps for Displaced Persons >> (DP's) >> which the Americans built for them and even more disgusted by the way >> they >> behaved when they were housed in German hospitals and private homes. He >> observed with horror that "these people do not understand toilets and >> refuse >> to use them except as repositories for tin cans, garbage, and refuse . . >> . >> They decline, where practicable, to use latrines, preferring to relieve >> themselves on the floor." >> >> He described in his diary one DP camp, "where, although room existed, the >> Jews were .crowded together to an appalling extent, and in practically >> every >> room there was a pile of garbage in one corner which was also used as a >> latrine. The Jews were only forced to desist from their nastiness and >> clean >> up the mess by the threat of the butt ends of rifles. Of course, I know >> the >> expression 'lost tribes of Israel' applied to the tribes which >> disappeared -- not to the tribe of Judah from which the current sons of >> bitches are descended. However, it is my personal opinion that this too >> is a >> lost tribe -- lost to all decency." >> >> Patton's initial impressions of the Jews were not improved when he >> attended >> a Jewish religious service at Eisenhower's insistence. His diary entry >> for >> September 17, 1945, reads in part: "This happened to be the feast of Yom >> Kippur, so they were all collected in a large, wooden building, which >> they >> called a synagogue. It behooved General Eisenhower to make a speech to >> them. >> We entered the synagogue, which was packed with the greatest stinking >> bunch >> of humanity I have ever seen. When we got about halfway up, the head >> rabbi, >> who was dressed in a fur hat similar to that worn by Henry VIII of >> England >> and in a surplice heavily embroidered and very filthy, came down and met >> the >> General . . . The smell was so terrible that I almost fainted and >> actually >> about three hours later lost my lunch as the result of remembering it." >> >> These experiences and a great many others firmly convinced Patton that >> the >> Jews were an especially unsavory variety of creature and hardly deserving >> of >> all the official concern the American government was bestowing on them. >> Another September diary entry, following a demand from Washington that >> more >> German housing be turned over to Jews, summed up his feelings: "Evidently >> the virus started by Morgenthau and Baruch of a Semitic revenge against >> all >> Germans is still working. Harrison (a U.S. State Department official) and >> his associates indicate that they feel German civilians should be removed >> from houses for the purpose of housing Displaced Persons. There are two >> errors in this assumption. First, when we remove an individual German we >> punish an individual German, while the punishment is -- not intended for >> the >> individual but for the race, Furthermore, it is against my Anglo-Saxon >> conscience to remove a person from a house, which is a punishment, >> without >> due process of law. In the second place, Harrison and his ilk believe >> that >> the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies >> particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals." >> >> One of the strongest factors in straightening out General Patton's >> thinking >> on the conquered Germans was the behavior of America's controlled news >> media >> toward them. At a press conference in Regensburg, Germany, on May 8, >> 1945, >> immediately after Germany's surrender, Patton was asked whether he >> planned >> to treat captured SS troops differently from other German POW's. His >> answer >> was: "No. SS means no more in Germany than being a Democrat in America -- >> that is not to be quoted. I mean by that that initially the SS people >> were >> special sons of bitches, but as the war progressed they ran out of sons >> of >> bitches and then they put anybody in there. Some of the top SS men will >> be >> treated as criminals, but there is no reason for trying someone who was >> drafted into this outfit . . ." >> >> Despite Patton's request that his remark not be quoted, the press eagerly >> seized on it, and Jews and their front men in America screamed in outrage >> over Patton's comparison of the SS and the Democratic Party as well as >> over >> his announced intention of treating most SS prisoners humanely. >> >> Patton refused to take hints from the press, however, and his >> disagreement >> with the American occupation policy formulated in Washington grew. Later >> in >> May he said to his brother-in-law: "I think that this non-fraternization >> is >> very stupid. If we are going to keep American soldiers in a country, they >> have to have some civilians to talk to. Furthermore, I think we could do >> a >> lot for the German civilians by letting our soldiers talk to their young >> people." >> >> Various of Patton's colleagues tried to make it perfectly clear what was >> expected of him. One politically ambitious officer, Brig. Gen. Philip S. >> Gage, anxious to please the powers that be, wrote to Patton: "Of course, >> I >> know that even your extensive powers are limited, but I do hope that >> wherever and whenever you can you will do what you can to make the German >> populace suffer. For God's sake, please don't ever go soft in regard to >> them. Nothing could ever be too bad for them." >> >> But Patton continued to do what he thought was right, whenever he could. >> With great reluctance, and only after repeated promptings from >> Eisenhower, >> he had thrown German families out of their homes to make room for more >> than >> a million Jewish DP's -- part of the famous "six million" who had >> supposedly >> been gassed -- but he balked when ordered to begin blowing up German >> factories, in accord with the infamous Morgenthau Plan to destroy >> Germany's >> economic basis forever. In his diary he wrote: "I doubted the expediency >> of >> blowing up factories, because the ends for which the factories are being >> blown up -- that is, preventing Germany from preparing for war -- can be >> equally well attained through the destruction of their machinery, while >> the >> buildings can be used to house thousands of homeless persons." >> >> Similarly, he expressed his doubts to his military colleagues about the >> overwhelming emphasis being placed on the persecution of every German who >> had formerly been a member of the National Socialist party. In a letter >> to >> his wife of September 14, 1945, he said: "I am frankly opposed to this >> war >> criminal stuff . It is not cricket and is Semitic. I am also opposed to >> sending POW's to work as slaves in foreign lands, where many will be >> starved >> to death." >> >> Despite his disagreement with official policy, Patton followed the rules >> laid down by Morgenthau and others back in Washington as closely as his >> conscience would allow, but he tried to moderate the effect, and this >> brought him into increasing conflict with Eisenhower and the other >> politically ambitious generals. In another letter to his wife he >> commented: >> "I have been at Frankfurt for a civil government conference. If what we >> are >> doing (to the Germans) is 'Liberty, then give me death.' I can't see how >> Americans can sink so low. It is Semitic, and I am sure of it." >> >> And in his diary he noted:, "Today we received orders . . . in which we >> were >> told to give the Jews special accommodations. If for Jews, why not >> Catholics, Mormons, etc? . . . We are also turning over to the French >> several hundred thousand prisoners of war to be used as slave labor in >> France. It is amusing to recall that we fought the Revolution in defense >> of >> the rights of man and the Civil War to abolish slavery and have now gone >> back on both principles." >> >> After a visit to ruined Berlin, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945: >> "Berlin >> gave me the blues. We have destroyed what could have been a good race, >> and >> we are about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will >> be >> communist. It's said that for the first week after they took it (Berlin), >> all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could >> have >> taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed." >> >> This conviction, that the politicians had used him and the U.S. Army for >> a >> criminal purpose, grew in the following weeks. During a dinner with >> French >> General Alphonse Juin in August, Patton was surprised to find the >> Frenchman >> in agreement with him. His diary entry for August 18 quotes Gen. Juin: >> "It >> is indeed unfortunate, mon General, that the English and the Americans >> have >> destroyed in Europe the only sound country -- and I do not mean France. >> Therefore, the road is now open for the advent of Russian communism." >> >> Later diary entries and letters to his wife reiterate this same >> conclusion. >> On August 31 he wrote: "Actually, the Germans are the only decent people >> left in Europe. it's a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer the >> Germans." And on September 2: "What we are doing is to destroy the only >> semi-modern state in Europe, so that Russia can swallow the whole." >> >> By this time the Morgenthauists and media monopolists had decided that >> Patton was incorrigible and must be discredited. So they began a non-stop >> hounding of him in the press, a la Watergate, accusing him of being ... >> >> read more >> > > I'm a big fat German Hun bitch and I sit around eating potato chips > dipped in chive cheese dip while I smell my own farts and masturbate > while I think of Ron Jeremey. Sounds more like an American person than German. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:27 EST 2007 Article: 1802974 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802974 alt.bible:1279458 alt.revisionism:1235084 soc.culture.europe:597879 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7mj07cthfte6@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039443 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:44:03 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:44:03 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:44:03 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m7mj07cthfte6@corp.supernews.com... > > > "Mistylein" wrote in message > news:ejL8j.301$RQ6.285@newsfe07.lga... >> >> "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message >> news:13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com... >> > Ignorant thug "christians" brutally attack a Jewish man >> > who wished everyone a happy Hanukkah. >> > >> > Muslim man comes to their aid. >> > >> > > http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0db7b365-a288-4708-857b-8bdb545cbd0f&vxChannel=PostNoAds&vxClipId=1458_209345&vxBitrate=700 >> >> I saw the clip and I do not see how anyone is able to claim some >> Christians were doing the beating. >> It was not Christians at all as you claim. >> > > > > The Jewish guy wished everyone a happy Hannukah, and the attackers said > Hannukah is when the Jews killed Christ, and they were very upset by that > idea. See? I'm sure they were raised in a Christian church of some kind. > > I think it's a damn shame that there are any religions at all, but since > people seem to need them, everyone should be free to practice and express > their religious beliefs, as long as it does no harm to others. > That’s a little too much detail from a mugging. Did they attackers confess that they responded to happy Hanukah or did the Jewish victim gave that detail? From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:27 EST 2007 Article: 1802975 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802975 alt.bible:1279459 alt.revisionism:1235085 soc.culture.europe:597880 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039760 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:49:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:49:20 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:49:20 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com... > On Dec 15, 12:43 am, "It's all a bit strange" > wrote: > > >> And they keep turning on each other. It just gets better and >> better. >> >> You see doomsday, when you post the truth, cramer >> automatically calls you a yid, doesn't even look at who is >> posting.>> > > > Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate > bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. > I was fed communist/Russian/polish propaganda for years and when I came to USA I am being fed Zionist propaganda. What amazes me is that many people can't distinguish propaganda or don't know how it works. My grandfather was a Polish Jew and I loved him very much, I also have many Jewish friends yet when I speak out my point of view about Zionist and propaganda they don’t call me anti-Semitic and many of them agree with my so called Jewish Holocaust view. Yet Zionists on this forum are very quick to label me anti-Semitic and they don't know me. I also must say American and Zionist propaganda is more subtle than communist propaganda but its everywhere. Every propaganda gimmick and every propaganda tool is utilized by American media. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:27 EST 2007 Article: 1802976 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802976 alt.bible:1279460 alt.revisionism:1235086 soc.culture.europe:597881 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> <%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039979 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:52:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:52:59 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:52:59 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:FtWdnTQHWKbqufvanZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>>>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. >>> >>> There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and >>> you hate Jews. >>> >>> You're welcome. >> >> >> You are a revisionist because you are a permanent member of this >> newsgroup alt.revisionism. > > He is also a revisionist because he's one of the leading lights in the > yid's Holocaust(tm) industry who have made a racket out of revising the > history of WWII to suit their extortion racket. plus his website has many revisionist resources together with Zionist debunking of such revisionist facts. So you can find how are Zionist trying to debunk revisionist facts and you can also learn some new revisionist facts that you didn’t know before. > > >> >> >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. >>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." >>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org >> > > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:28 EST 2007 Article: 1802979 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235087 soc.culture.israel:1663861 soc.culture.jewish:1802979 soc.culture.palestine:588287 soc.culture.arabic:283459 alt.religion.islam:1258967 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.arabic,alt.religion.islam References: <1190924725.396330.105630@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com> <1191468139.395441.32950@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> <1191701660.628110.75330@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: a few of my thoughts about ISRAEL Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <5u1aj.30891$lD6.25567@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198040065 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:54:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:54:25 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:54:25 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:G_GdnUXzjcuTIP3anZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@giganews.com... > Kurt Knoll wrote: >> No matter what settlement will come out of the negoiationable. The Jews >> are in charge of it and they will do all the screwing the same way they >> have done for centuries. >> Kurt Knoll. > > Kurt is just jealous because he is in his 70s and has never done any > screwing. That's just like Mr. McVay >> >> "Aviroce" wrote in message >> news:1191701660.628110.75330@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>> SCUMBAG POSTER: >>> THEY TOLD YOU"Israel has no legal, religious, or historical right in >>> Palestine >>> >>> >>> Truly "Israel" existence is........................ >>> absolute wrong, this corruptor, thief, >>> tyrant, occupier, terrorist and cancer >>> has no right to live on the Palestinian >>> land, it will always meet refusal >>> regardless of the reconciliation, >>> recognitions and surrenders!! >>> >>> -----Indeed" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 3, 11:22 pm, Mohammed Loves His 6 Year Old Wife Aisha >>> wrote: >>>> On Sep 27, 9:54 pm, "ElParedon" wrote: >>>> >>>>> "AirRaid" wrote in message >>>>> news:1190924725.396330.105630@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> the palestinians should get the fuck off of Israel's land. >>>>> THERE IS NO ISRAEL, THERE IS ONLY OCCUPIED PALESTINE! >>>>> GO BACK TO RUSSIA YOU SCUM! >>>> There never was a Palestine. It was never a nation, and you know it, >>>> you scum! Go back to Jordan and Syria where your families are >>>> from!!! Better yet, go in front of a speeding bus! >>> >> >> From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:55 EST 2007 Article: 594972 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233746 soc.culture.usa:2066704 soc.culture.canada:594972 soc.history.what-if:737754 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!news.glorb.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <71O8j.53591$eY.30068@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.net 1197714627 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:30:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:30:27 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHPIMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:30:27 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com... > > Let's get the British bastard! > > How emails from a badly leaking laptop scuppered the violent plans of the > traditional enemies of Free Speech in Colorado > > > > DENVER Jewess Sara Salzman (below) was the brain behind plans for the > disruption of Mr Irving's December 22, 2003 visit to the city. > > In doing so, she risked federal prosecution for conspiring to violate the > civil rights of his audience. As a Holocaust professional and webmaster > (she has claimed that her Holocaust website gets Six Million "hits" each > month) she expected to get away with it. > > Her gang laid plans in several directions. All failed. One of the earlier, > less violent projects was to infiltrate into the audience her husband, > whom she described as a big -- i.e., obese -- man, and have him purchase > an Irving book; he would then produce the cancelled check to claim that > the British historian was "violating his visa status." > > Her computer records show that she sent over fifty emails to Denver Jewish > groups asking for support. > > Most responded cautiously, asking what Abe Foxman's Anti-Defamation League > was doing about the visit. > > The answer was, nothing. The ADL had burnt its fingers badly when it > authorized illegal wiretaps on a Colorado couple and publicly smeared them > as anti-Semites. > > A Denver court ordered the ADL to pay $9.75 million in libel damages; the > organisation's appeal was dismissed in April 2003. Even for an > organization as wealthy as the ADL (annual budget, $50 million) that kind > of award hurts. > > They were not keen to fetch Salzman's chestnuts out of the fire, if she > deliberately provoked trouble in Denver. > > > > Sara's chief accomplice was a former New York City cop and jailer, Rich > Miller. > > She emailed him frequent updates on the plan, with headings like: "T-minus > 13 days to Irving." The ex-cop would reply to her, "All is going well at > my end." > > To journalist Dani Newsum, left, who had written a particularly nasty OpEd > piece in the Denver Post headed "NAZI SWILL, COMING SOON," Sara also fed > this information: > > We've got a minimum of ninety people who will be demonstrating in front of > the (as-yet-undisclosed) location. If anyone has any media contacts, > especially with the local TV stations or Fox, please let me know. I will > be working this week on contacting various media folks. I'd especially > like to reach Peter Boyles at KHOW and Enid Goldstein at KNRC (radio), and > anyone at the TV stations." > As the organised efforts to undermine Mr Irving's lecture tour -- on the > comparisons between World War II and the war in Iraq -- began to bite, > from Las Vegas onwards, Salzman gloated: > > Good news from the front lines: Irving was supposed to speak in Seattle on > Monday night. He announced the location, the Pyramid Brewery, and one of > the members of Holocaust Project wrote a letter to the location. > Showing where she expected most of her support to come from, Salzman left > stacks of pamphlets at Denver's Jewish gift shops. > > On December 15, with five days to go, her leaky laptop received this > message from her ex-cop friend, announcing that he and his squad would be > ready for action on Saturday. They were evidently expecting violence: > > Things are warm and heating up quickly. We are prepared and ready for the > event on Saturday. Our group of four will be equipped with cameras, signs, > FirstAid supplies, water, and snacks. > > > WORRIED about what she called "a mole in her ranks," that day the > Holocaust-obsessed Sara had another mole -- "Michael Wilde" -- send this > message to Mr Irving: > > I saw the article in Westword magazine and I'm real interested in hearing > your talk. We read about the Holocaust in school, but I can't believe all > the stuff we were told. Will you be saying anything about it? > Wilde's application failed to make the genuine guest list for Denver, > because it failed certain criteria. Sara's keyboard handiwork confirmed > this decision. > > ("In cases like these," Mr Irving proposed to the Denver organizer, "we > find the address of a gay bar and send the suspects to wait there all > evening.") > > Mr Irving sent "Wilde" a standard reply, but added that he was not talking > about the Holocaust, and had never written about it. > > No matter. Irving had to be silenced. Sara hammered out this message on > her keyboard to her conspirators: "We're in the loop." (She added a surly > comment: "Interesting that Mr. Irving can afford a tollfree cell phone > number in US.") > > Meanwhile she sent a wad of leaflets to the Denver TV and radio stations, > her fingers busily typing out more lying smears on her porous keyboard: > > David Irving, an anti-American [sic], anti-Semitic, Holocaust denier, will > be speaking here, and there will be a group protesting his visit. > Information about this protest has been reported in Dani Newsum's Blog > 'Nazi Swill is coming to town'. > Unfortunately, Mr. Irving (to reduce the possibility of press coverage > [sic]) will not announce the location of his talk until a day or two > before. > > Risking a final libellous smear, Salzman added: > > David Irving's followers are the same kinds of people as those who killed > Alan Berg. It's vital that we let him know he is not welcome in Denver. > Sara Salzman 303-617-9412. > Meanwhile she had learned from "Michael Wilde" that he had asked Mr Irving > by email: "Do you have a place yet for your talk?" To their delight, the > author had answered ("currently on the road in Wyoming") -- less than > frankly, as it would turn out -- "Yes, north Denver, and you will be > informed later today." > > That confirmed what they already "knew," because he had a inserted a fake > line to that effect at the end of the Moscow Daily News report posted on > his website, namely that he would be speaking somewhere near the new > Denver International Airport. > > > > IT WAS now D-Day minus 1 -- Friday, December 19, 2003. Sara Salzman typed > this report at 11:16 a.m.: > > Irving has posted an article on his web site. . . The last sentence says: > 'Irving speaks at a hotel near Denver airport on Saturday.' > If anyone wants to start calling hotels near the airport and ask if > someone with the initials "A.H." has booked a conference room for a meal > and lecture, please feel free! Sara." > > She received confirmation from a fellow plotter that the most recent > update was "somewhere near the airport." > > She congratulated him: "We're getting closer. My husband is going to call > Irving's cell phone after 3:00 p.m. today." > > Mr Irving's phone registered an incoming "no caller ID" call at 3:10 > p.m. -- but the call did not reach him in Wyoming. She and her plotters > had to rely on their wits, and on her leaky laptop. > > Late on that Friday evening, Mr Irving sealed the Denver plotters' fate > with this message to their mole "Michael Wilde": > > Here is tomorrow Saturday's location by email: please keep it under your > hat. Tell no-one. We have booked a room at the Denver International > Airport Marriott (the actual address, if you're coming by taxi, is 16455 > East 40th Circle). > The Marriott Corp have never let us down yet (as you know we have just > held our fourth international Real History weekend at their Cincinnati > airport location) so they don't bow to pressure. > > We have asked the hotel to deny any afternoon function taking place. The > booking is under a less than obvious name, as you will see when you > arrive. > > I suggest you come between twelve and one, when I shall arrive; we'll have > a meal and then I will talk. Looking forward to seeing y'all there. > > > > At 1:35 a.m. Sara sat at her lap-top and hammered out a new message to her > gang. She quoted Irving's message to "Wilde," then finalized their plans: > > > So here's what I suggest: We all meet in the parking lot of the Marriott. > Since Irving isn't going to be there until one, we don't want to clue him > in too early. So let's meet around 11:15-11:30. > Our person taking pictures will have to be in the lobby of the hotel, > since lots of other people will be coming and going. One of us will go in > and scope it out, figure out which "room" Irving has rented (my guess is > under a name with the initials A.H.), and then our photographer can stake > out a place to take pictures that isn't too obvious . . . otherwise the > hotel will toss us. > > Referring to the ex-cop Rich Miller, she suggested: "Rich, I'm sure, can > fill us in on what's 'legal' to do. . . . Let's get the British bastard!! > Sara." > > She then switched off her laptop, and turned in for the night, while > dreams of sweet violence danced in her head. > > At ten on Saturday morning, the big day, she issued final "legal advice" > to her gang, provided by "our legal advisor at the Holocaust Project," on > what to do if they fell foul of the law and whether to comply with the > Marriott's order that they leave: > > My own answer to a security guard is 'Call the police and have them tell > me that' and answer that you are 'Exercising your constitutional rights.' > This puts on record what happened and what is involved. > > Second, it puts it in an area where the wimps at the Anti-Defamation > League and the nutballs at the American Civil Liberties Union can, if > either decides to get off their fat asses, intervene in a meaningful way. > > The next day, she and her ("big") husband got "off their asses." When they > downloaded her emails on Saturday morning, ex-cop Rich Miller had already > sent in his own take on the forthcoming confrontation: > > Let us give this racist, Nazi, Hitler lover, and Jew-hater a big Colorado > unwelcome. > The weather will be perfect, the location is ideal, and our cause is > moral. See you all at The Marriott Hotel at approximately 11:30 AM today. > The Marriott Hotel is located off Interstate 70, Exit 285, Airport Blvd. > North. > > If you need better directions, please call the Marriott at 303-371-4333. > Please do not mention David Irving. We do not want to give him a heads up > as to what we have planned.-Rich. > how is that such info is leaked. I doubt it was hacked. Sara had to either install a backdoor or she leaked it herself so she could raise a cry. We all heard of a Jewish man who painted swastika on his door himself, just so later he could raise a cry. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:56 EST 2007 Article: 594986 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1233788 soc.culture.usa:2066717 soc.culture.canada:594986 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.what-if References: <9NWdnSGBkpapX_7anZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: When did the world learn about the Holocaust(tm)? Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197720862 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:14:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 07:14:22 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZUEK@YUDUWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 12:14:22 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:9NWdnSGBkpapX_7anZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@giganews.com... > When did the world > learn about the Holocaust? > 20 March 2006 > > British, American, and Russian troops defeated Germany in 1945 and opened > up the Nazi prison camps to release the prisoners. > > > However, it took a while for the world to figure out what was going on > inside those camps. Actually, the story of what happened during World War > II is still changing. > > > Eisenhower, Churchill, and de Gaulle did not know of the Holocaust? > A French Professor, Robert Faurisson, claims to have read thousands of > pages of memoirs of World War 2 from Eisenhower, Churchill, and de Gaulle, > and there was not a single word about gas chambers: > www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/FaurisArch/RF981020.html > Why would those three leaders ignore such an incredibly large slaughter in > their writings about the war? > One of the reasons it is taking so long to understand what happened inside > the Nazi camps is that many European nations have laws that prohibit > investigations of the Holocaust. > How do the Europeans expect to understand World War II when they have laws > that prohibit investigations? The Europeans are fools to allow these laws. > Another brief summary of Eisenhower and Churchill on the Holocaust: > http://judicial-inc.biz/eisenhower_churchill_holocaust.htm > > Auschwitz; how many people were killed? > Americans have the freedom to investigate the Holocaust. Not surprisingly, > our ideas on what happened at the Nazi camps change through time. > If you have access to old encyclopedias, or a library that has copies of > old newspapers, take a look for yourself. For example, the entry for > Auschwitz in the 1965 World Book Encyclopedia has: > > From the 1965 edition > Auschwitz > In June, 1941, it became an extermination center when four huge gas > chambers were installed. Rudolf Hoess, who directed the camp for more than > three years, testified at the Nuremberg trials that more than 2.5 million > persons were executed at Auschwitz. He said that another 500,000 starved > to death there. > The 2006 on-line edition reduces the number of people killed by 50%: > > From the 2006 on-line edition > Auschwitz > About 1 1/4 million people died... > ... > The Nazis used gas chambers and other methods to murder most of these > people. Other victims died of starvation or disease, and some were worked > to death in nearby factories. Most of the victims at Auschwitz were > Jewish. The Nazis killed them as part of a plan to murder all the Jews in > Europe. > www.worldbook.com/wb/Article?id=ar038220&st=auschwitz > > Obviously historians reduced the number of deaths in half because they > could not find evidence to support the figures provided by Rudolph Hoess > during his trial. Was Hoess merely guessing? Or did he exaggerate his > killings in order to make himself into the greatest murderer in human > history? Or was he forced to make exaggerated claims? > > Where was the Holocaust in 1965? > In the 1965 World Book Encyclopedia there is no entry for "Holocaust". > However, the 2006 on-line edition has an entry, and it states: > > From the 2006 on-line edition > Holocaust > ...was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of Jews and others by the > Nazis... > ...Adolf Hitler wanted to eliminate all Jews as part of his aim to conquer > the world. By the end of the war, the Nazis had killed about 6 million > Jewish men, women, and children-more than two-thirds of the Jews in > Europe. > ... > Historians estimate that perhaps as many as 11 million people were killed, > including the Jews. Many of the Holocaust victims were killed in specially > constructed gas chambers, and their bodies were then burned. > www.worldbook.com/wb/Article?id=ar259685&st=holocaust > > If the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, and even if we assume all 1.25 million > people who were killed at Auschwitz were Jewish, where were the other 4.75 > million killed? Dachau? No. Even the Encyclopaedia Britannica, which may > have a British bias, agrees with Americans that Dachau was not used for > killing prisoners: > www.britannica.com/eb/article-9028484 > So where were those 4.75 million Jews killed? Add up all of the killings > from all of the Nazi camps, and you will not come close to the 6 million > figure. And remember, the 6 million figure is only for Jews. The official > Holocaust story also claims that 3 million Poles were killed, and 1.5 > million other people were killed. > There is no entry for Treblinka in the 1965 World Book Encyclopedia, but > the 2006 edition has: > > From the 2006 on-line edition > Treblinka > ...was a death camp... > ... > From July 1942 to August 1943, about 840,000 people died in gas chambers > there. > www.worldbook.com/wb/Article?id=ar565550&st=treblinka > > To kill 840,000 people in gas chambers in only 13 months is an incredible > achievement. Why didn't the 1965 edition bother to mention this amazing > slaughter? > australiafreepress.org has a short video describing an investigation of > Treblinka, along with links to articles, to show that it was not a "death > camp". > www.australiafreepress.org/subindexpages/treblinka.htm > > Hollywood gives us our Holocaust > Why was there no entry for "Holocaust" in the 1965 edition? Because the > expression "Holocaust" did not become common until Hollywood decided to > promote it in the 1970s. > There is interesting information about the Hollywood connection and the > development of the Holocaust stories here: > http://judicial-inc.biz/frank_collins.htm > Please find the emotional strength to look at that page, and its links. We > can disagree on details, but all adults should be capable of looking at > this issue. > > > Conclusion > There is only one way to resolve all of these disputes. Specifically, the > European goyim must grow a backbone and get rid of the laws that prohibit > investigations of the Holocaust. > What is wrong with the European Goyim? If you have goy friends or > relatives in Europe, tell them to stop embarrassing us, and starting > helping us! > Most people's view of World War II, the Holocaust, and most other subjects > comes from television, movies, books, magazines, and newspapers, all of > which are dominated by Zionists. Goyim should not exist on a diet of > Zionist propaganda. Get a difference of opinion! > Here is an introduction to the Holocaust: > www.EricHufschmid.net/Conspiracies12.htm > Also, please note that some Jews provide a different and very important > perspective, such as David Cole: > DavidCole_Auschwitz.html > And, of course, Benjamin Freedman: > www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Freedman.html > Remember, I posted an article that says that the idea came to live in 1939, before work camps were operational but only 20 years later it became popularized by marketing. Just when the evidence was being destroyed the holocaust myth was beginning to take shape. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:57 EST 2007 Article: 595313 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234372 soc.culture.usa:2067273 soc.culture.canada:595313 soc.history.what-if:737942 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197855472 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:37:52 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:37:52 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BT]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:37:52 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... > Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >> In article , >> Sara Salzman wrote: >> >> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >> >>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>> "confession." >>> >>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails he >>> claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>> >>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the law. >>> >>> So there are only two choices here: >>> >>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>> or >>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>> >>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break the >>> law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag that he >>> had broken the law? >>> >>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. Why >>> would anyone believe an admitted liar? >> >> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be BOTH, >> TL. > > True. > > I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he hacked > into my computer. > > And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued the > ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. > > And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went off > into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. > > Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >> >> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in dispute. I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge to break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he hacked your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do you believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any proof that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, apparently a known liar. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:57 EST 2007 Article: 595352 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234418 soc.culture.usa:2067348 soc.culture.canada:595352 soc.history.what-if:737944 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197863567 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:52:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:52:47 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:52:47 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:x5WdnR74iOCwRPjanZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@giganews.com... > Snow wrote: >> >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >>>> In article , >>>> Sara Salzman wrote: >>>> >>>> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >>>> >>>>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>>>> "confession." >>>>> >>>>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails he >>>>> claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>>>> >>>>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the >>>>> law. >>>>> >>>>> So there are only two choices here: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>>>> or >>>>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>>>> >>>>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break the >>>>> law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag that he >>>>> had broken the law? >>>>> >>>>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>>>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. >>>>> Why would anyone believe an admitted liar? >>>> >>>> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be BOTH, >>>> TL. >>> >>> True. >>> >>> I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he >>> hacked into my computer. >>> >>> And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued the >>> ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. >>> >>> And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went off >>> into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. >>> >>> Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >>>> >>>> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in dispute. >> >> >> I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge to >> break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit >> Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he hacked >> your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do you >> believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any proof >> that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, apparently a >> known liar. > > Do I honestly think Irving hacked into my computer? Of course not. > Especially since he announced that "next time Sara should get a > Macintosh," and that is exactly what I was using. I don't think he has the > computer savvy. > > What I *do* think is that Irving is such a liar and pompous ass that > instead of saying "Someone sent me a copy of Sara's email," he had to lie > about it. > > Yes, Irving is a tremendous liar. That he would "admit" to committing a > felony just to show off only shows how completely insane he is. > > Hope that helps. > > -Sara I am thinking the same that Irving couldn't hack anything. I doubt he is clever enough to find a hacker who would hack it for him for money, he wouldn't know where to start looking for hackers. So the questions remains how is that your email became public. Its either that someone had physical access to your computer, you installed a backdoor which someone had to provide it to you as a file, or you posted the email yourself or one of your colleagues posted it somewhere. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:57 EST 2007 Article: 595353 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1234420 soc.culture.usa:2067349 soc.culture.canada:595353 soc.history.what-if:737945 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_qm9j.80517$Um6.43186@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197863738 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:55:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:55:38 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNH\KMAVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:55:38 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:apudnWKCaKt4CfnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com... > B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:YcudnR7g8obZ9_nanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >>>> >>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>> news:ivWdnQ6Oaecx0PnanZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>> B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>>>> news:bYKdnThdVciLZv7anZ2dnUVZ_qPinZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>>> B'enjamin C'ramer wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let's get the British bastard! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course Cramer likes this, since I never said anything of the >>>>>>> sort. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not that you can prove. You do love to lie, salzman. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cramer and Irving BOTH believe it's okay to alter other people's >>>>>>> words to suit their own hatred and paranoia. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do we? You seem to be the one using my work to fit your hatred and >>>>>> paranoia. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How emails from a badly leaking laptop scuppered the violent plans >>>>>>>> of the traditional enemies of Free Speech in Colorado >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> How David Irving admitted to hacking into my computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> And where did he admit any such thing? >>>>> >>>>> In his original version of this article, the one he sent out in his >>>>> newsletter, where he used the phrase "hacked a keyhole into her >>>>> computer." >>>> >>>> Did he just? >>>> >>>> And this is evidence he hacked your computer? >>>> >>>> Reverse the roles, salzman. >>>> >>>> I make a claim that you "hacked a keyhole" into my computer. How long >>>> do you suppose that would fly before the shills attacked my claim >>>> asking for "proof?" >>>> >>>> The keenan cunt would no doubt climb on board and tell all and sundry >>>> "hacking" is not easy and that I was lying about the episode. >>>> >>>> The jacobsOn turd would also climb on board, twist a few words here and >>>> there and make out it was I who had hacked you. >>>> >>> >>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>> "confession." >> >> He did not confess to what you accuse him of, lying, exaggerating fat >> slag. > > In his original version of this article, the one he sent out in his > newsletter, where he used the phrase "hacked a keyhole into her computer." >>> >>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails he >>> claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>> >>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the law. >>> >>> So there are only two choices here: >>> >>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>> or >>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>> >>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break the >>> law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag that he >>> had broken the law? >> >> Where did he claim to have "hacked" your computer? I still haven't seen >> him use those words. > > In his original version of this article, the one he sent out in his > newsletter, where he used the phrase "hacked a keyhole into her computer." There is not such a thing as keyhole among hacker community. Obviously Irving is getting his hacking vocabulary NOT from a hacker. Probably one of your colleagues leaked the email and Irving to protect the identity of the leaker came out with his own hacking vocab. > >>> >>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. Why >>> would anyone believe an admitted liar? >> >> You expect us to believe everything you say, lying cunt. > > I asked a simple question. Instead of answering it, you spew more venom > and play dumb. "Where did he say that?" I've now answered that three > times. In his newsletter. Four times. In his newsletter. Five times. > > So did he lie or did he break the law? > > >> >>> >>> No more fantasies about your obsessions with Messers Keenan and >>> Jacobson. Just answer the question: Is Irving a law-breaker or a liar? >> >> What obsessions? It's that pair of turds who are obsessed with me. >> JacobsOn has even adopted half a dozen new nyms in an attempt to trap me >> into responding to him. > > Now THAT'S a lie plain and simple. You've been asked to come up with a > single shred of evidence on this and have completely refused to do so. > > You expect us to believe everything you say, lying Cramer. >> >> Your question is difficult to answer. As difficult as my asking you "Have >> you stopped fisting yourself." > > That's a very easy one. I never started. Never have. Never. > > You'll have to look somewhere else for your sexual fantasies, Mr. Cramer. > I have never done anything of the sort. > > So that was easy. Now answer whether Irving lied or broke the law, hmm? > >> >> You really need to question the loyalty of some of those whom you place >> your trust in. > > Huh? >> >> People like you, who conduct high level hate campaigns, cannot surely >> expect to be immune from infiltration of your groups. Surely you're not >> stupid enough to believe everyone who claims to be with you, is with you? >> > Group? I have no group, Mr. Cramer. That's another of your fantasies. > Well, yours and David Irving's. My "group" consisted of my, my husband, > and my son. I sure wouldn't call that a "group," and I wouldn't call it a > "gang of thugs," as Irving did. > > He's got quite a vivid imagination, does David Irving. But then, he's > always been prone to exaggeration. And lying. > > So, what is this "group" that was "infiltrated," Mr. Cramer? > >> >> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless Cramer can explain how Irving would know what was supposedly >>>>>>> on my computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would suggest one of your own had a big mouth, salzman. You have >>>>>> used "moles" to gain information, therefore it is quite likely Irving >>>>>> had "moles" within your organisation. >>>>>> >>>>>> I suppose that possibility has never occurred to you? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for posting this! It shows the desperation of both of you. >>>>>> >>>>>> It does nothing of the sort. It perfectly portrays the lengths you >>>>>> and your thugs will to go to in order you silence any and all >>>>>> criticism of your precious Holocaut(tm). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DENVER Jewess Sara Salzman (below) was the brain behind plans for >>>>>>>> the disruption of Mr Irving's December 22, 2003 visit to the city. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In doing so, she risked federal prosecution for conspiring to >>>>>>>> violate the civil rights of his audience. As a Holocaust >>>>>>>> professional and webmaster (she has claimed that her Holocaust >>>>>>>> website gets Six Million "hits" each month) she expected to get >>>>>>>> away with it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Her gang laid plans in several directions. All failed. One of the >>>>>>>> earlier, less violent projects was to infiltrate into the audience >>>>>>>> her husband, whom she described as a big -- i.e., obese -- man, and >>>>>>>> have him purchase an Irving book; he would then produce the >>>>>>>> cancelled check to claim that the British historian was "violating >>>>>>>> his visa status." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Her computer records show that she sent over fifty emails to Denver >>>>>>>> Jewish groups asking for support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Most responded cautiously, asking what Abe Foxman's Anti-Defamation >>>>>>>> League was doing about the visit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The answer was, nothing. The ADL had burnt its fingers badly when >>>>>>>> it authorized illegal wiretaps on a Colorado couple and publicly >>>>>>>> smeared them as anti-Semites. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A Denver court ordered the ADL to pay $9.75 million in libel >>>>>>>> damages; the organisation's appeal was dismissed in April 2003. >>>>>>>> Even for an organization as wealthy as the ADL (annual budget, $50 >>>>>>>> million) that kind of award hurts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They were not keen to fetch Salzman's chestnuts out of the fire, if >>>>>>>> she deliberately provoked trouble in Denver. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sara's chief accomplice was a former New York City cop and jailer, >>>>>>>> Rich Miller. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She emailed him frequent updates on the plan, with headings like: >>>>>>>> "T-minus 13 days to Irving." The ex-cop would reply to her, "All is >>>>>>>> going well at my end." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To journalist Dani Newsum, left, who had written a particularly >>>>>>>> nasty OpEd piece in the Denver Post headed "NAZI SWILL, COMING >>>>>>>> SOON," Sara also fed this information: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We've got a minimum of ninety people who will be demonstrating in >>>>>>>> front of the (as-yet-undisclosed) location. If anyone has any media >>>>>>>> contacts, especially with the local TV stations or Fox, please let >>>>>>>> me know. I will be working this week on contacting various media >>>>>>>> folks. I'd especially like to reach Peter Boyles at KHOW and Enid >>>>>>>> Goldstein at KNRC (radio), and anyone at the TV stations." >>>>>>>> As the organised efforts to undermine Mr Irving's lecture tour -- >>>>>>>> on the comparisons between World War II and the war in Iraq -- >>>>>>>> began to bite, from Las Vegas onwards, Salzman gloated: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good news from the front lines: Irving was supposed to speak in >>>>>>>> Seattle on Monday night. He announced the location, the Pyramid >>>>>>>> Brewery, and one of the members of Holocaust Project wrote a letter >>>>>>>> to the location. >>>>>>>> Showing where she expected most of her support to come from, >>>>>>>> Salzman left stacks of pamphlets at Denver's Jewish gift shops. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On December 15, with five days to go, her leaky laptop received >>>>>>>> this message from her ex-cop friend, announcing that he and his >>>>>>>> squad would be ready for action on Saturday. They were evidently >>>>>>>> expecting violence: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Things are warm and heating up quickly. We are prepared and ready >>>>>>>> for the event on Saturday. Our group of four will be equipped with >>>>>>>> cameras, signs, FirstAid supplies, water, and snacks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WORRIED about what she called "a mole in her ranks," that day the >>>>>>>> Holocaust-obsessed Sara had another mole -- "Michael Wilde" -- >>>>>>>> send this message to Mr Irving: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I saw the article in Westword magazine and I'm real interested in >>>>>>>> hearing your talk. We read about the Holocaust in school, but I >>>>>>>> can't believe all the stuff we were told. Will you be saying >>>>>>>> anything about it? >>>>>>>> Wilde's application failed to make the genuine guest list for >>>>>>>> Denver, because it failed certain criteria. Sara's keyboard >>>>>>>> handiwork confirmed this decision. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ("In cases like these," Mr Irving proposed to the Denver organizer, >>>>>>>> "we find the address of a gay bar and send the suspects to wait >>>>>>>> there all evening.") >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mr Irving sent "Wilde" a standard reply, but added that he was not >>>>>>>> talking about the Holocaust, and had never written about it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No matter. Irving had to be silenced. Sara hammered out this >>>>>>>> message on her keyboard to her conspirators: "We're in the loop." >>>>>>>> (She added a surly comment: "Interesting that Mr. Irving can afford >>>>>>>> a tollfree cell phone number in US.") >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Meanwhile she sent a wad of leaflets to the Denver TV and radio >>>>>>>> stations, her fingers busily typing out more lying smears on her >>>>>>>> porous keyboard: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Irving, an anti-American [sic], anti-Semitic, Holocaust >>>>>>>> denier, will be speaking here, and there will be a group protesting >>>>>>>> his visit. Information about this protest has been reported in Dani >>>>>>>> Newsum's Blog 'Nazi Swill is coming to town'. >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, Mr. Irving (to reduce the possibility of press >>>>>>>> coverage [sic]) will not announce the location of his talk until a >>>>>>>> day or two before. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Risking a final libellous smear, Salzman added: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David Irving's followers are the same kinds of people as those who >>>>>>>> killed Alan Berg. It's vital that we let him know he is not welcome >>>>>>>> in Denver. Sara Salzman 303-617-9412. >>>>>>>> Meanwhile she had learned from "Michael Wilde" that he had asked Mr >>>>>>>> Irving by email: "Do you have a place yet for your talk?" To their >>>>>>>> delight, the author had answered ("currently on the road in >>>>>>>> Wyoming") -- less than frankly, as it would turn out -- "Yes, north >>>>>>>> Denver, and you will be informed later today." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That confirmed what they already "knew," because he had a inserted >>>>>>>> a fake line to that effect at the end of the Moscow Daily News >>>>>>>> report posted on his website, namely that he would be speaking >>>>>>>> somewhere near the new Denver International Airport. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IT WAS now D-Day minus 1 -- Friday, December 19, 2003. Sara Salzman >>>>>>>> typed this report at 11:16 a.m.: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Irving has posted an article on his web site. . . The last sentence >>>>>>>> says: 'Irving speaks at a hotel near Denver airport on Saturday.' >>>>>>>> If anyone wants to start calling hotels near the airport and ask if >>>>>>>> someone with the initials "A.H." has booked a conference room for a >>>>>>>> meal and lecture, please feel free! Sara." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She received confirmation from a fellow plotter that the most >>>>>>>> recent update was "somewhere near the airport." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She congratulated him: "We're getting closer. My husband is going >>>>>>>> to call Irving's cell phone after 3:00 p.m. today." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mr Irving's phone registered an incoming "no caller ID" call at >>>>>>>> 3:10 p.m. -- but the call did not reach him in Wyoming. She and >>>>>>>> her plotters had to rely on their wits, and on her leaky laptop. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Late on that Friday evening, Mr Irving sealed the Denver plotters' >>>>>>>> fate with this message to their mole "Michael Wilde": >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is tomorrow Saturday's location by email: please keep it under >>>>>>>> your hat. Tell no-one. We have booked a room at the Denver >>>>>>>> International Airport Marriott (the actual address, if you're >>>>>>>> coming by taxi, is 16455 East 40th Circle). >>>>>>>> The Marriott Corp have never let us down yet (as you know we have >>>>>>>> just held our fourth international Real History weekend at their >>>>>>>> Cincinnati airport location) so they don't bow to pressure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We have asked the hotel to deny any afternoon function taking >>>>>>>> place. The booking is under a less than obvious name, as you will >>>>>>>> see when you arrive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suggest you come between twelve and one, when I shall arrive; >>>>>>>> we'll have a meal and then I will talk. Looking forward to seeing >>>>>>>> y'all there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 1:35 a.m. Sara sat at her lap-top and hammered out a new message >>>>>>>> to her gang. She quoted Irving's message to "Wilde," then finalized >>>>>>>> their plans: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So here's what I suggest: We all meet in the parking lot of the >>>>>>>> Marriott. Since Irving isn't going to be there until one, we don't >>>>>>>> want to clue him in too early. So let's meet around 11:15-11:30. >>>>>>>> Our person taking pictures will have to be in the lobby of the >>>>>>>> hotel, since lots of other people will be coming and going. One of >>>>>>>> us will go in and scope it out, figure out which "room" Irving has >>>>>>>> rented (my guess is under a name with the initials A.H.), and then >>>>>>>> our photographer can stake out a place to take pictures that isn't >>>>>>>> too obvious . . . otherwise the hotel will toss us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Referring to the ex-cop Rich Miller, she suggested: "Rich, I'm >>>>>>>> sure, can fill us in on what's 'legal' to do. . . . Let's get the >>>>>>>> British bastard!! Sara." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> She then switched off her laptop, and turned in for the night, >>>>>>>> while dreams of sweet violence danced in her head. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At ten on Saturday morning, the big day, she issued final "legal >>>>>>>> advice" to her gang, provided by "our legal advisor at the >>>>>>>> Holocaust Project," on what to do if they fell foul of the law and >>>>>>>> whether to comply with the Marriott's order that they leave: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My own answer to a security guard is 'Call the police and have them >>>>>>>> tell me that' and answer that you are 'Exercising your >>>>>>>> constitutional rights.' >>>>>>>> This puts on record what happened and what is involved. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Second, it puts it in an area where the wimps at the >>>>>>>> Anti-Defamation League and the nutballs at the American Civil >>>>>>>> Liberties Union can, if either decides to get off their fat asses, >>>>>>>> intervene in a meaningful way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The next day, she and her ("big") husband got "off their asses." >>>>>>>> When they downloaded her emails on Saturday morning, ex-cop Rich >>>>>>>> Miller had already sent in his own take on the forthcoming >>>>>>>> confrontation: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let us give this racist, Nazi, Hitler lover, and Jew-hater a big >>>>>>>> Colorado unwelcome. >>>>>>>> The weather will be perfect, the location is ideal, and our cause >>>>>>>> is moral. See you all at The Marriott Hotel at approximately 11:30 >>>>>>>> AM today. The Marriott Hotel is located off Interstate 70, Exit >>>>>>>> 285, Airport Blvd. North. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you need better directions, please call the Marriott at >>>>>>>> 303-371-4333. Please do not mention David Irving. We do not want to >>>>>>>> give him a heads up as to what we have planned.-Rich. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:59 EST 2007 Article: 595621 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235081 soc.culture.usa:2067984 soc.culture.canada:595621 soc.history.what-if:738085 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039094 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:38:14 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:38:14 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:38:14 GMT "Sara Salzman" wrote in message news:l5OdnVLV8aTBbvjanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@giganews.com... > Snow wrote: >> >> >> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >> news:x5WdnR74iOCwRPjanZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Snow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>> news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >>>>>> In article , >>>>>> Sara Salzman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >>>>>> >>>>>>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and his >>>>>>> "confession." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails >>>>>>> he claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the >>>>>>> law. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So there are only two choices here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break >>>>>>> the law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag >>>>>>> that he had broken the law? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>>>>>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be suspect. >>>>>>> Why would anyone believe an admitted liar? >>>>>> >>>>>> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be >>>>>> BOTH, TL. >>>>> >>>>> True. >>>>> >>>>> I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he >>>>> hacked into my computer. >>>>> >>>>> And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued the >>>>> ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. >>>>> >>>>> And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went >>>>> off into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. >>>>> >>>>> Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >>>>>> >>>>>> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in >>>>>> dispute. >>>> >>>> >>>> I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge >>>> to break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit >>>> Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he >>>> hacked your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do >>>> you believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any >>>> proof that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, >>>> apparently a known liar. >>> >>> Do I honestly think Irving hacked into my computer? Of course not. >>> Especially since he announced that "next time Sara should get a >>> Macintosh," and that is exactly what I was using. I don't think he has >>> the computer savvy. >>> >>> What I *do* think is that Irving is such a liar and pompous ass that >>> instead of saying "Someone sent me a copy of Sara's email," he had to >>> lie about it. >>> >>> Yes, Irving is a tremendous liar. That he would "admit" to committing a >>> felony just to show off only shows how completely insane he is. >>> >>> Hope that helps. >>> >>> -Sara >> >> I am thinking the same that Irving couldn't hack anything. I doubt he is >> clever enough to find a hacker who would hack it for him for money, he >> wouldn't know where to start looking for hackers. So the questions >> remains how is that your email became public. Its either that someone >> had physical access to your computer, you installed a backdoor which >> someone had to provide it to you as a file, or you posted the email >> yourself or one of your colleagues posted it somewhere. > > And yet you don't address why Irving would make up a lie about hacking > into my computer. Why do you think he did that? > > -Sara to cover up a person who supplied him with that info, perhaps he was aware if he suggested a person, you would become suspicious of your surroundings and Irving would loose a moll. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:32:59 EST 2007 Article: 595622 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235083 soc.culture.usa:2067985 soc.culture.canada:595622 soc.history.what-if:738086 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.uk,soc.culture.canada,soc.history.what-if References: <1aqdnXsZm9OFH_7anZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@giganews.com> <1_mdnYzD_ddtxPnanZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com> <13m8rh6djpcb802@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Let's get the British bastard! Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039153 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:39:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:39:13 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@@S@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\RWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:39:13 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:Faidne6-F977hPvanZ2dnUVZ_rGrnZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Sara Salzman" wrote in message > news:l5OdnVLV8aTBbvjanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@giganews.com... >> Snow wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>> news:x5WdnR74iOCwRPjanZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@giganews.com... >>>> Snow wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Sara Salzman" wrote in message >>>>> news:UPWdnfCwAMp-6fnanZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com... >>>>>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote: >>>>>>> In article , >>>>>>> Sara Salzman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [horse manure flushed down the cramer] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A lovely little fantasy that says nothing about David Irving and >>>>>>>> his "confession." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Irving claimed he hacked my computer. Irving then reproduced emails >>>>>>>> he claimed he got from my computer when he hacked it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why would Irving confess to breaking the law if he didn't break the >>>>>>>> law. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So there are only two choices here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Irving is a law-breaker >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> 2. Irving is a liar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Which one is it, Mr. Cramer? Did Irving hack my computer and break >>>>>>>> the law, or did Irving lie about hacking into my computer and brag >>>>>>>> that he had broken the law? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If Irving is a law-breaker, he should go to jail. >>>>>>>> If Irving is a liar, then everything else he says should be >>>>>>>> suspect. Why would anyone believe an admitted liar? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see no reason why David "See you, Sue you" Irving could not be >>>>>>> BOTH, TL. >>>>>> >>>>>> True. >>>>>> >>>>>> I just love how at first Cramer INSISTED that Irving never said he >>>>>> hacked into my computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> And then, faced with the screamingly obvious FACT, he then pursued >>>>>> the ass-covering "he said he did but he didn't do it" bullshit. >>>>>> >>>>>> And then, realizing that no one would believe THAT garbage, he went >>>>>> off into a rant about Keenan and Jacobson. >>>>>> >>>>>> Obviously, Cramer is in deep, deep meltdown. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He has a track record of lying - UNDER OATH - so that isn't in >>>>>>> dispute. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I really doubt Mr. Irving is a hacker or has enough computer knowledge >>>>> to break in someone's computer. What amazes me is that you discredit >>>>> Irving. don't believe anything he says but yet you believe that he >>>>> hacked your computer because he said so. So which one is it Sara. Do >>>>> you believe everything Irving says or is he a liar. Do you have any >>>>> proof that he hacked your computer except a statement from him, >>>>> apparently a known liar. >>>> >>>> Do I honestly think Irving hacked into my computer? Of course not. >>>> Especially since he announced that "next time Sara should get a >>>> Macintosh," and that is exactly what I was using. I don't think he has >>>> the computer savvy. >>>> >>>> What I *do* think is that Irving is such a liar and pompous ass that >>>> instead of saying "Someone sent me a copy of Sara's email," he had to >>>> lie about it. >>>> >>>> Yes, Irving is a tremendous liar. That he would "admit" to committing a >>>> felony just to show off only shows how completely insane he is. >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>> >>>> -Sara >>> >>> I am thinking the same that Irving couldn't hack anything. I doubt he is >>> clever enough to find a hacker who would hack it for him for money, he >>> wouldn't know where to start looking for hackers. So the questions >>> remains how is that your email became public. Its either that someone >>> had physical access to your computer, you installed a backdoor which >>> someone had to provide it to you as a file, or you posted the email >>> yourself or one of your colleagues posted it somewhere. >> >> And yet you don't address why Irving would make up a lie about hacking >> into my computer. Why do you think he did that? > > He did not say he hacked your computer, fat slag. You've made that up in > your own foetid, hate-filled mind. > > Are you saying Sara made that up? Sara could you be so kind and provide a link or source where Irving admits to hacking your computer From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:31 EST 2007 Article: 597404 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597404 soc.culture.german:379754 soc.culture.jewish:1801073 soc.culture.israel:1662496 alt.revisionism:1233369 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000 Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <_2g8j.5278$NY.2764@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com 1197575482 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:51:22 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: TSU[@ION_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:50:27 -0500 "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com... > > Majdanek Death Statistics > When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet > Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been > murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg International > Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in > November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million. > > In December 2005, the Majdanek Museum announced that Lublin scholar Tomasz > Kranz has established that the Nazis murdered 78,000 people at the > Majdanek > concentration camp. This revision is the culmination of years of research > in > which the number of deaths at Majdanek has steadily dwindled down to only > a > fraction of the original estimate by the Soviet liberators. > > http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/DeathStatistics.html > > > > During the Communist regime, which lasted until 1989, all Polish citizens > were encouraged to go on government-sponsored group tours to the former > Nazi > concentration camps as part of their indoctrination in hatred of the > opponents of Communism. According to the tour guide, Polish schools taught > a > censored version of history during the Communist rule, leaving out such > details as the Russian invasion of Poland in 1920, but emphasizing the > crimes of the Nazi Fascists. > > > > http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Majdanek/Majdanek.html > > > > so true. Polish educational system thought us that Russians are liberators and we even had to learn Russian song and some Russian poem. They didn’t teach us that Red Army invaded Poland, but liberated Poles. Also Katyn massacre was thought as a Nazi crime. As far as work camp data, I don't trust communist data as it was plain propaganda and numbers were exaggerated. Now even though the number had been lowered, Zionist will still claim 6 million victims as I learned recently the number has some religions meaning to Jews. Again if I could ask Mr. McVay to break down 6 million number, I would really appreciate it. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:31 EST 2007 Article: 597431 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597431 soc.culture.german:379771 soc.culture.jewish:1801167 soc.culture.israel:1662551 alt.revisionism:1233467 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com> <13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Majdanek Death Statistics, from 1.7 million, now 78,000 Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com 1197603181 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:33:01 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BVNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:32:05 -0500 "ElParedon" wrote in message news:Kxl8j.37737$L%6.32149@bignews3.bellsouth.net... > > "Kurt Knoll" wrote in message > news:NXi8j.1702$_r2.171@pd7urf1no... >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13m3ak2q8d0r6d8@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m2vvol4dhbu49@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>> >>>>Majdanek Death Statistics >>>>When the Majdanek death camp was liberated on July 23, 1944, the Soviet >>>>Union at first announced to the world that 1.7 million people had been >>>>murdered there by the Nazis. By the time that the Nuremberg >>>>International >>>>Military Tribunal proceedings against the Nazi war criminals began in >>>>November 1945, the Soviets had revised this number down to 1.5 million. >>> >>> Who cares? The Soviets were notoriously unable to come up with realistic >>> figures. >> >> So can't you Kenneth. > > Out of the 78,000, probabnly only about 20% were Jews > And they were managing the place From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:31 EST 2007 Article: 597527 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1801448 alt.religion.christianity:384746 alt.bible:1278235 alt.revisionism:1233773 soc.culture.europe:597527 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1197718882 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:41:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 06:41:22 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFEQR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:41:22 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... > Why were they "Christian" thugs? > > Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. > > Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? Yes it does. Personally never heard of Christian thugs. Did they have big crosses on their foreheads. But Christianity is being attacked lately left and right. First the news cant shut up about priests abuse then Zionists banned prayer and crosses in public places. the word GOD is also being banned. Zionists even went as far as trying to remove it from the money 'in GOD we trust, and from constitution. Family values are also being attacked. Republicans, many are Zionists are loosing Christian voting base. Its Sodoma and Gomora here in USA. modern Babylon. PS. its all strange, will reply to this post within hours such a looser he is, he is predictable. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:31 EST 2007 Article: 597710 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802083 alt.religion.christianity:384905 alt.bible:1278861 alt.revisionism:1234365 soc.culture.europe:597710 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.christianity,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854827 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:27:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:27:07 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:27:07 GMT "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message news:Z_idnStcg9mQIv7anZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:C3P8j.24512$4V6.7723@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message >> news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Why were they "Christian" thugs? >>> >>> Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. >>> >>> Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? >> >> >> Yes it does. Personally never heard of Christian thugs. Did they have big >> crosses on their foreheads. But Christianity is being attacked lately >> left and right. First the news cant shut up about priests abuse then >> Zionists banned prayer and crosses in public places. the word GOD is also >> being banned. Zionists even went as far as trying to remove it from the >> money 'in GOD we trust, and from constitution. >> Family values are also being attacked. Republicans, many are Zionists >> are loosing Christian voting base. Its Sodoma and Gomora here in USA. >> modern Babylon. >> >> PS. its all strange, will reply to this post within hours such a looser >> he is, he is predictable. > > He, RJ11, Tal Henry, Concerned Aussie, NoSpamAtAll, A little sanity are > all Ron JacobsOn. > > It's a legendary liar and also has raised the practice of making out of > context posts to an art form. > > I have the fuckwit (all of them) killfiled, although I get the occasional > message of his forwarded to me by colleagues. One doing the rounds at the > moment has me bankrupting a company, clearing off with the money and > knowing some woman I've never heard of. He will continue posting this > until some of the more gullible start believing it. He's a dreadful little > man and a disgusting human being. That he has Salzman et al in his "team" > does not surprise me one jot. > > I know he has attempted to contact people he assumes are myself and has > made a complete pig of himself. > > It's a complete fool. that is totally fucked up that these people will do anything to ruin someone's personal life. Its one thing for Sara to be involved in protests against Zundel or Irving but its another thing to try to ruin someone's personal life because of disagreement in the newsgroup. I see McVay saying 'snow from Connecticut' although I never mentioned my location, its obvious he intentionally looked up my IP and indeed it does say Connecticut. So if he or his followers intentionally looked up my IP, I am sure they tried to find more info on me and others. Rule number one, never share any personal information as these people are unpredictable and will do anything to ruin someone's career and personal life. It seems to go both way though as I heard Sara's elderly father had been receiving personal attacks. I don't understand why would anyone want to take it beyond this newsgroup. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:32 EST 2007 Article: 597711 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us alt.bible:1278862 alt.revisionism:1234366 soc.culture.europe:597711 soc.culture.jewish:1802084 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.jewish References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <90K8j.65$0T3.3@trnddc08> Subject: Re: Lying Bigots Prove Their Insane Stupidy WAS: Smartarse Jewess Provokes Attack Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <7hk9j.31769$JD.26261@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854915 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:28:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:28:35 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^BTBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:28:35 GMT wrote in message news:P8c9j.5909$c82.4558@trnddc01... > > Amazing how these jackasses can pretend they > know *anything* after getting this so completely > "bass ackwards" > > Susan > > On 15-Dec-2007, "Professor Bugsbomb" wrote: > >> "B'enjamin C'ramer" wrote in message >> news:fuadnRlpu_c12_7anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@giganews.com... >> > Why were they "Christian" thugs? >> > >> > Surely they were plain vanilla thugs. >> > >> > Does it help the yids to label them "Christian" thugs? >> >> And they wonder why no one likes them lol When the Brooklyn Hasids go >> on >> a >> rampage and riot, as they frequently do, they say there's a pogrom >> against >> them lol >> A jew is the type that while hitting you will be screaming that you're >> attacking him lol That is so true. A jew is the type who will spray paint a swastika on his door and will scream racism. lol. > > >> > "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message >> > news:13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com... >> >> Ignorant thug "christians" brutally attack a Jewish man >> >> who wished everyone a happy Hanukkah. >> >> >> >> Muslim man comes to their aid. >> >> >> >> http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0db7b365-a288-4708-857b-8bdb545cbd0f&vxChannel=PostNoAds&vxClipId=1458_209345&vxBitrate=700 From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:32 EST 2007 Article: 597712 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802085 alt.bible:1278863 alt.revisionism:1234367 soc.culture.europe:597712 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: <%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197854971 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:29:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:29:31 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:29:31 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... > In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, > Doomsday Cultist wrote: > > [...] > >>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. > > There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and > you hate Jews. > > You're welcome. You are a revisionist because you are a permanent member of this newsgroup alt.revisionism. > > -- > "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. > It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." > (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:32 EST 2007 Article: 597714 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802088 alt.bible:1278867 alt.revisionism:1234369 soc.culture.europe:597714 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> <13m8dp6kuj3ul32@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.net 1197855225 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:33:45 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:33:45 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13m8dp6kuj3ul32@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Kurt Knoll wrote: >>All of them are liars Kenneth because you do not want the truth to come >>out. > > I agree, Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll. All Holocaust deniers are > indeed liars. Exactly and you lied that 99.99% of people know Irving. Isn't that right Mr. McVay. We all know I am a liar and make sure you remind everyone and don’t forget to post the questions for me. Thanks. > > 27 Statements Qualifying Kurt Knoll as the Intellectual Giant > of Holocaust Denial: > > 1. "Go and read what Professor Faurisson has to say about dissecting the > Holocaust. Could it be this was the reason why he was Assassinated > twice." <3c962a6e_2@binaries.vphos.net, Mar. 18, 2002> > > 2. "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail Bu you people > did hang him after that." 2007> > > 3. "No, I myself am not anti-Semitic, I just don't like Jews!" > > 4. "No wonder years after the war was over he found some more > diaries of Ann Frank and she did not know about it." > > 5. "By refinishion you i mean you on their side definetly you > opinons are." > > 6. "People want to know all the facts whatever they are true > or not." > > 7. "We all know it but they will have us believe they have > absolutely no influence on governments. Not believing it > would be anti emetic." > > 8. "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown > typewriter in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state > department about in 1940." > > 9. "Listen guy. Your holocuast industries is clear. For > another trik and I'll hold my scrotum in my mouth for as > long as it taks." > > 10. "If the holocaust critics are stupid it is because Jews > are at times outright corrupt. What is it really you do want > them to believe." > > 11. "Well the con you documents a single that I originated. > Give me the date of the posting and the title." > Nov. 7, 2007 > > 12. "Since all you knowledge is coming out of your holocaust > Fairydale book I will not your naivety holding against you." > > 13. "I am not stressed out since I can analyze your holohoax > in my urine." > > 14. "When I wend and stuck my penis in my ear, I know that I am right!" > > 15. "How do you do fact finding if you do not want to know anything." > Nov. 10, 2007 > > 16. "Looking who things proceed today is no longer what is right > or wrong but one side are you on." > > 17. "Perhaps if you could tell the truth others would not as all the > questions." > > > 18. "Hey Tony will there ever be a time when you can reply in > blain English." , Nov. 12, 2007 > > 19. "No, the holocaust is not about history it is about a Ukrainian > Sausage!" > > 20. "What's now as a cut and con artist you can not supply a honest > posting > showing the time and day including the heating of the posting so I can > check > it out a Google. , > > 21. "Studying the area is alright me questing therefore is studied by > whom." > Nov. 17, 2007 > > 22. "You are calling other that ask questions about the holocaust > despicable. > I suggest you take a very good look at yourself. What you have is false > bride > and nothing else." , Nov. 25, 2007 > > 23. "No Tony the procedure used by you holohoaxers has always be the same. > And this is search and destruct anyone that is in your hollow way." > , Nov. 26, 2007 > > 24. "Makes on wonder how much basic education and coming sense they have. > Or is their brain attached to a chewing gum." > , Dec. 1, 2007 > > 25. "Nanalize the Word all He facts. A brain will tell you what it means." > , Dec. 2007 > > 26. "Oh boy what kind of primitive mentality does he really have. > I sincerely hope his mom and Dad are not proud if it. What the > produced ended up as a vegetable." Dec. 9, > 2007 > > 27. "The coal mine did converted to a brewery. Guess what I was their best > customer making sure now was left half full," > <0RZ6j.11399$iU.8119@pd7urf2no>,, Dec. 9, 2007 > >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>>>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. >>> >>> There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and >>> you hate Jews. >>> >>> You're welcome. >>> >>> -- >>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. >>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." >>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org >> >> > > > -- > "In the final analysis, one does not refute a closed system, a total > lie that is not refutable to the extent that its conclusions has > preceded any evidence." (Vidal-Naquet, Pierre. Assassins of Memory, > New York: Columbia University Press. p.81) From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:32 EST 2007 Article: 597725 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:597725 soc.culture.german:379965 soc.culture.jewish:1802149 soc.culture.israel:1663330 alt.revisionism:1234407 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism References: <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com> <13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Nazi "Human skin" lampshades were NOT "actually goat skin" Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1197861561 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 22:19:21 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PAPDCAOPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 03:19:21 GMT "Joe Smokey Firestone" wrote in message news:kt09j.3820$JW4.570@trnddc05... > Can I ask you once simple question Mr. Mc Vay? Why General, and later > President Eisenhower never mentioned anything in his memoir about the > holocaust and the gas Chambers. He was very close to the war, he was the > allied commander who was informed about all the intelligence traffic that > reached his desk. Why President Truman never mentioned anything about the > gas chambers since he was the sitting president and vice president during > the entire war. In Truman Memoir, he was very angry at the creation of the > Jewish state. He felt it will be the disaster the will seal the American > Foreign policy around the world. the Jews must survive on their own, we > can't remain silent to the forgeries and lies they presented us for the > past 60 years. > > Joe Smokey Firestone Looks like Mr. McVay doesn't have answers for your question but yet found time to reply to ElPadron. Perhaps Mr. McVay is having difficult time doing the Google research because I doubt he ever visited a library or read a book even, although you never know, perhaps he is one well read gas attendant. > > > > "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message ter that yet > to news:13m8nvelu6drtfe@corp.supernews.com... >> In article <13m8mcf1rh64u14@corp.supernews.com>, >> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>>According to Jean Edward Smith in his biography, "Lucius D. Clay, an >>>American Life," the general maintained that the leather lamp shades were >>>really made out of goat skin. The book quotes a statement made by General >>>Clay years later: >> >> You're not very good at this, are you? >> >> http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/clay-koch-01.html >> >> >> Archive/File: imt/nca/nca-06/nca-06-3423-ps >> Last-Modified: 1997/01/03 >> >> Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 6 >> >> [Page 123] >> >> COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS >> >> SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY >> APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y. >> >> Section of Pathology >> 25 May 1945 >> >> SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides >> >> TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army) >> >> (ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) >> >> 1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for >> examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin >> from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case >> 81 T.J.A. >> >> [Page 124] >> >> 2. The description follows: >> >> GROSS: Specimen consists of three pieces of skin >> labeled A.B.C. >> >> PIECE A: Measures 13x13cm., is transparent and >> shows a woman's head in the center and a sailor >> with an anchor near the margin. >> >> PIECE B: Measures 14x13cm., is transparent and is >> a tattoo of several anchors resting on an >> indefinite black mass. To the right of this mass >> is a man's head. >> >> PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44cm. At the >> base. The upper portion is 30 cm. Long and the >> sides measure 46 cm. The skin is transparent and >> shows two nipples in the upper area. These are 16 >> cm. Apart. From the nipple level to the umbilicus >> is 23 « cm. A large bird, with a wingspread >> measuring 28 cm., is present in the center of the >> skin, upper part. A black dragon, with fire >> coming from the mouth, measures 28 cm. in length >> and is present in the center of the skin. To the >> left of the dragon is a man in a coat of mail, >> with a sword being apparently stuck in the dragon. >> Man is approximately 22 cm. in length. >> >> MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of >> collagen showing occasional epithelial and sweat >> gland remnants. Granular black pigment granules >> are seen between some of the bundles. >> >> 3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three >> specimens are tattooed human skin. >> >> For the Commanding Officer, >> >> [signed] REUBEN CARES >> Ruben Cares >> Major M.C., Chief of pathology >> >> >> >> -- >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.01 >> "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED." >> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.02 > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:33 EST 2007 Article: 597879 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802974 alt.bible:1279458 alt.revisionism:1235084 soc.culture.europe:597879 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7mj07cthfte6@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039443 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:44:03 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:44:03 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: F[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRZQ]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:44:03 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m7mj07cthfte6@corp.supernews.com... > > > "Mistylein" wrote in message > news:ejL8j.301$RQ6.285@newsfe07.lga... >> >> "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message >> news:13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com... >> > Ignorant thug "christians" brutally attack a Jewish man >> > who wished everyone a happy Hanukkah. >> > >> > Muslim man comes to their aid. >> > >> > > http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0db7b365-a288-4708-857b-8bdb545cbd0f&vxChannel=PostNoAds&vxClipId=1458_209345&vxBitrate=700 >> >> I saw the clip and I do not see how anyone is able to claim some >> Christians were doing the beating. >> It was not Christians at all as you claim. >> > > > > The Jewish guy wished everyone a happy Hannukah, and the attackers said > Hannukah is when the Jews killed Christ, and they were very upset by that > idea. See? I'm sure they were raised in a Christian church of some kind. > > I think it's a damn shame that there are any religions at all, but since > people seem to need them, everyone should be free to practice and express > their religious beliefs, as long as it does no harm to others. > That’s a little too much detail from a mugging. Did they attackers confess that they responded to happy Hanukah or did the Jewish victim gave that detail? From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:33 EST 2007 Article: 597880 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802975 alt.bible:1279459 alt.revisionism:1235085 soc.culture.europe:597880 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039760 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:49:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:49:20 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:49:20 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com... > On Dec 15, 12:43 am, "It's all a bit strange" > wrote: > > >> And they keep turning on each other. It just gets better and >> better. >> >> You see doomsday, when you post the truth, cramer >> automatically calls you a yid, doesn't even look at who is >> posting.>> > > > Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate > bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. > I was fed communist/Russian/polish propaganda for years and when I came to USA I am being fed Zionist propaganda. What amazes me is that many people can't distinguish propaganda or don't know how it works. My grandfather was a Polish Jew and I loved him very much, I also have many Jewish friends yet when I speak out my point of view about Zionist and propaganda they don’t call me anti-Semitic and many of them agree with my so called Jewish Holocaust view. Yet Zionists on this forum are very quick to label me anti-Semitic and they don't know me. I also must say American and Zionist propaganda is more subtle than communist propaganda but its everywhere. Every propaganda gimmick and every propaganda tool is utilized by American media. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Wed Dec 19 16:34:33 EST 2007 Article: 597881 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.jewish:1802976 alt.bible:1279460 alt.revisionism:1235086 soc.culture.europe:597881 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-09!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.bible,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe References: <13m6beh8gve0lde@corp.supernews.com> <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com> <13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com> <%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> Subject: Re: Christian thugs attack Jews on New York subway, Muslim man comes to their aid. Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198039979 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:52:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:52:59 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPTSC_TXMBND]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:52:59 GMT "B'injamin Cr'amer" wrote in message news:FtWdnTQHWKbqufvanZ2dnUVZ_ournZ2d@giganews.com... > > "Snow" wrote in message > news:%hk9j.31770$JD.21439@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net... >> >> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >> news:13m7uoeju24vtc3@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article <13m7n1i3ofs2g23@corp.supernews.com>, >>> Doomsday Cultist wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>Revisonists aren't a monolithic "they". I don't hate Jews, I just hate >>>>bullshit and propaganda. That's why I'm a holocaust revisionist. >>> >>> There are no revisionists posting here. You are a Holocaust denier, and >>> you hate Jews. >>> >>> You're welcome. >> >> >> You are a revisionist because you are a permanent member of this >> newsgroup alt.revisionism. > > He is also a revisionist because he's one of the leading lights in the > yid's Holocaust(tm) industry who have made a racket out of revising the > history of WWII to suit their extortion racket. plus his website has many revisionist resources together with Zionist debunking of such revisionist facts. So you can find how are Zionist trying to debunk revisionist facts and you can also learn some new revisionist facts that you didn’t know before. > > >> >> >> >> >>> >>> -- >>> "Hate propaganda is an attack on the truth-seeking process itself. >>> It is directed to subverting and undermining the search for truth." >>> (David Matas, Bloody Speech, p. 37) >>> The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org >> > > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Thu Dec 20 18:45:26 EST 2007 Article: 1235464 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235464 alt.non.racism:109436 alt.law-enforcement:760383 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.non.racism,alt.law-enforcement References: <13mjvehft2ve20f@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: Jewish extremist JTF calls for Ron Paul supporters to be put to death Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.net 1198182675 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:31:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:31:15 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFMASJETAANVW[AKWZE\]^XQWIGNE_[EBL@^_\^JOCQ^RSNVLGTFTKHTXHHP[NB\_C@\SD@EP_[KCXX__AGDDEKGFNB\ZOKLRNCY_CGG[RHT_UN@C_BSY\G__IJIX_PLSA[CCFAULEY\FL\VLGANTQQ]FN Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:31:15 GMT "Doomsday Cultist" wrote in message news:13mjvehft2ve20f@corp.supernews.com... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ziqkvZueM&feature=related > > > Here is their website: > > JEWISH TASK FORCE > Fighting to save America and Israel from Islamic terrorism! > > http://jtf.org/ > > JTF > Post Office Box 650327 > Fresh Meadows NY 11365 > > They don’t have to fight for America, We can take care of ourselves. They should go to Israel and fight there against these Palestinians terrorists, some of them even throw rocks as far as 25 feet. Very dangerous. Leave America Alone JTF. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Thu Dec 20 18:45:26 EST 2007 Article: 1235465 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235465 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr13.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism References: <13mj75njqh4tac4@corp.supernews.com> <13mjq8v7ajrdd67@corp.supernews.com> Subject: Re: 29 Statements from the Intellectual Giant, Kitimat's Kurt Knoll Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr13.news.prodigy.net 1198183058 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:37:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:37:38 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: OX[SCW[DVBSSP_@YMZJ\_Q\@TJ_ZTB\MV@BT]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:37:38 GMT "Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message news:13mjq8v7ajrdd67@corp.supernews.com... > In article , > Kurt Knoll wrote: >>Kenneth Warsaw was in a war zone and therefore not considered a civilian >>target. > > Not by you, perhaps, Leading Revisionist Moron Knoll, but the rest of the > world knows > that the Luftwaffe deliberately targeted civilians all over Poland. This sounds interesting, Do you have any evidence for this. > > Live with it, you Nazi apologist. > >> >>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>news:13mj75njqh4tac4@corp.supernews.com... >>> In article , >>> Leading Revisionist Moron Kurt Knoll wrote: >>> >>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC" wrote in message >>>>news:13milv7l1jh3lca@corp.supernews.com... >>>>> In article , >>>>> Leading Revisionist Scholar Kurt Knoll, the Towering Intellectual >>>>> Powerhouse of Holocaust Denial and Village Idiot of Kitimat, >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Nobody lies better than the con artist Kenneth McVay and jet he calls >>>>>>al >>>>>>others liars and we all know it. >>>>> >>>>> Yet the Moron Kurtsie Knoll has never been able to document a single >>>>> such >>>>> "lie" during all the years he has been challenged to do so. >>> >>>>There you go. I did agree with you that Warsaw was bombed at one time. >>>>You >>>>did reply and said "Kurt agrees Warsaw was bombed on September 1" When >>>>did >>>>I >>>>ever say September first. You are the one who does always the twisting. >>>>Why >>>>should we trust you ate all. >>> >>> YOU, moron, asked this question: >>> >>> "Who was the first to bomb civilian targets in WWII." >>> >>> The answer was clear, and in line with all historical records: The >>> Luftwaffe bombed >>> Warsaw on the very first day of WWII, September 1, 1939. I later learned >>> that they had >>> ALSO bombed civilian targets and refugee columns throughout Poland as a >>> deliberate >>> policy. >>> >>> No one CARES whether the Village Idiot of Kitimat agrees or not. You, >>> Leading Revisionist >>> Moron Knoll, are not relevant, beyond your having asked the question in >>> the first place. >>> >>> Now let's get back to the TOPIC of this thread, which is your claim that >>> I >>> am a "con >>> artist" and liar, and my rejoinder that, in spite of your having made >>> that >>> claim for >>> years, you have never documented a SINGLE instance where I have lied. >>> >>> You know that is true, and that is why you changed the subject to Warsaw >>> and September 1, >>> 1939. >>> >>> No wonder you are viewed as a moron from one end of the Internet to the >>> other. >>> >>> 29 Statements Qualifying Kurt Knoll as the Intellectual Giant >>> of Holocaust Denial: >>> >>> 1. "Go and read what Professor Faurisson has to say about dissecting the >>> Holocaust. Could it be this was the reason why he was Assassinated >>> twice." <3c962a6e_2@binaries.vphos.net, Mar. 18, 2002> >>> >>> 2. "Streicher commit suicide while in the Nuremberg Jail Bu you people >>> did hang him after that." >> 2007> >>> >>> 3. "No, I myself am not anti-Semitic, I just don't like Jews!" >>> >>> 4. "No wonder years after the war was over he found some more >>> diaries of Ann Frank and she did not know about it." >>> >>> 5. "By refinishion you i mean you on their side definetly you >>> opinons are." >>> >>> 6. "People want to know all the facts whatever they are true >>> or not." >>> >>> 7. "We all know it but they will have us believe they have >>> absolutely no influence on governments. Not believing it >>> would be anti emetic." >>> >>> 8. "Rumours also has it the letter was written on an unknown >>> typewriter in about 1950 but the letter was send to the state >>> department about in 1940." >>> >>> 9. "Listen guy. Your holocuast industries is clear. For >>> another trik and I'll hold my scrotum in my mouth for as >>> long as it taks." >>> >>> 10. "If the holocaust critics are stupid it is because Jews >>> are at times outright corrupt. What is it really you do want >>> them to believe." >>> >>> 11. "Well the con you documents a single that I originated. >>> Give me the date of the posting and the title." >>> Nov. 7, 2007 >>> >>> 12. "Since all you knowledge is coming out of your holocaust >>> Fairydale book I will not your naivety holding against you." >>> >>> 13. "I am not stressed out since I can analyze your holohoax >>> in my urine." >>> >>> 14. "When I wend and stuck my penis in my ear, I know that I am right!" >>> >>> 15. "How do you do fact finding if you do not want to know anything." >>> Nov. 10, 2007 >>> >>> 16. "Looking who things proceed today is no longer what is right >>> or wrong but one side are you on." >>> >>> 17. "Perhaps if you could tell the truth others would not as all the >>> questions." >>> >>> >>> 18. "Hey Tony will there ever be a time when you can reply in >>> blain English." , Nov. 12, 2007 >>> >>> 19. "No, the holocaust is not about history it is about a Ukrainian >>> Sausage!" >>> >>> 20. "What's now as a cut and con artist you can not supply a honest >>> posting >>> showing the time and day including the heating of the posting so I >>> can >>> check >>> it out a Google. , >>> >>> 21. "Studying the area is alright me questing therefore is studied by >>> whom." >>> Nov. 17, 2007 >>> >>> 22. "You are calling other that ask questions about the holocaust >>> despicable. >>> I suggest you take a very good look at yourself. What you have is >>> false >>> bride >>> and nothing else." , Nov. 25, 2007 >>> >>> 23. "No Tony the procedure used by you holohoaxers has always be the >>> same. >>> And this is search and destruct anyone that is in your hollow way." >>> , Nov. 26, 2007 >>> >>> 24. "Makes on wonder how much basic education and coming sense they >>> have. >>> Or is their brain attached to a chewing gum." >>> , Dec. 1, 2007 >>> >>> 25. "Nanalize the Word all He facts. A brain will tell you what it >>> means." >>> , Dec. 2007 >>> >>> 26. "Oh boy what kind of primitive mentality does he really have. >>> I sincerely hope his mom and Dad are not proud if it. What the >>> produced ended up as a vegetable." Dec. >>> 9, >>> 2007 >>> >>> 27. "The coal mine did converted to a brewery. Guess what I was their >>> best >>> customer making sure now was left half full," >>> <0RZ6j.11399$iU.8119@pd7urf2no>,, Dec. 9, 2007 >>> >>> 28. In a comment about water, Mr. Knoll said, " am glad you know what >>> HO2 >>> Means. >>> Dec. 16, 2007. HO2?. He decided to >>> clarify by adding, "To begin with the H stands for hydrogen." >>> >>> 29. "What is it exactly you are drying to say." >>> <2TA9j.7866$hQ3.5337@pd7urf3no>, >>> December 17, 2007 >>> >>> 30. >>> >>> -- >>> "A better idea: Russian, Chinese, Indian, Korean, French, and Pali >>> nukes melting Israel into the sea." ("Chester Field," Leading >>> Revisionist Scholar who appears to have forgotten his name.) >> >> > > > -- > "But you have no interest in getting to the truth of the > matter are, you, you silly little toss." ("Ben Cramer," > Leading Revisionist Scholar) > The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org From snowonweb@hotmail.com Fri Dec 21 02:31:40 EST 2007 Article: 1235512 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235512 can.general:376307 soc.culture.canada:595830 can.politics:1551771 ott.general:324728 ab.general:115168 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics,ott.general,ab.general References: <22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com> Subject: Re: Nizkor Project Director Kenneth McVay sucks and licks my cock like it's a big pickle Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198206088 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:01:28 GMT wrote in message news:22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com... > I reciprocrate in kind because he's my sweet heart boy. > > Richard Warman > 512-440 Wiggins Privee > Ottawa, Ontario K1N 1A7 Canada > Phone: 613-233-2070 > E-mail: richardwarman@yahoo.ca > Unbelivable, I suspected Mr. Warman of having homosexual tendencies but never Mr. McVay. He seems to be such a player with the ladies. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Fri Dec 21 02:31:48 EST 2007 Article: 376307 of can.general Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235512 can.general:376307 soc.culture.canada:595830 can.politics:1551771 ott.general:324728 ab.general:115168 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics,ott.general,ab.general References: <22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com> Subject: Re: Nizkor Project Director Kenneth McVay sucks and licks my cock like it's a big pickle Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198206088 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:01:28 GMT wrote in message news:22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com... > I reciprocrate in kind because he's my sweet heart boy. > > Richard Warman > 512-440 Wiggins Privee > Ottawa, Ontario K1N 1A7 Canada > Phone: 613-233-2070 > E-mail: richardwarman@yahoo.ca > Unbelivable, I suspected Mr. Warman of having homosexual tendencies but never Mr. McVay. He seems to be such a player with the ladies. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Fri Dec 21 02:31:55 EST 2007 Article: 1551771 of can.politics Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235512 can.general:376307 soc.culture.canada:595830 can.politics:1551771 ott.general:324728 ab.general:115168 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics,ott.general,ab.general References: <22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com> Subject: Re: Nizkor Project Director Kenneth McVay sucks and licks my cock like it's a big pickle Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198206088 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:01:28 GMT wrote in message news:22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com... > I reciprocrate in kind because he's my sweet heart boy. > > Richard Warman > 512-440 Wiggins Privee > Ottawa, Ontario K1N 1A7 Canada > Phone: 613-233-2070 > E-mail: richardwarman@yahoo.ca > Unbelivable, I suspected Mr. Warman of having homosexual tendencies but never Mr. McVay. He seems to be such a player with the ladies. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Fri Dec 21 02:32:24 EST 2007 Article: 595830 of soc.culture.canada Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1235512 can.general:376307 soc.culture.canada:595830 can.politics:1551771 ott.general:324728 ab.general:115168 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: "Snow" Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics,ott.general,ab.general References: <22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com> Subject: Re: Nizkor Project Director Kenneth McVay sucks and licks my cock like it's a big pickle Lines: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.net 1198206088 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:01:28 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:01:28 GMT wrote in message news:22ebb833b1d7f710f72539e829379953@remailer.metacolo.com... > I reciprocrate in kind because he's my sweet heart boy. > > Richard Warman > 512-440 Wiggins Privee > Ottawa, Ontario K1N 1A7 Canada > Phone: 613-233-2070 > E-mail: richardwarman@yahoo.ca > Unbelivable, I suspected Mr. Warman of having homosexual tendencies but never Mr. McVay. He seems to be such a player with the ladies. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:03:55 EST 2007 Article: 1236031 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236031 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Letter from Rabbi Heir References: <74a05a2e-c567-4648-a51c-de788565a4c4@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <74a05a2e-c567-4648-a51c-de788565a4c4@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 70 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.net 1198369763 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:29:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:29:23 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:30:02 -0500 ragland31@gmail.com wrote: > > > > December 19, 2007 > Letter from Rabbi Hier > Freedom is Not a Gift: SWC Needs Your Help > > Dear Michael, > > Simon Wiesenthal once said that freedom is not a gift from heaven, but > something we must fight for every day. At the Simon Wiesenthal Center, > we fulfill Simon Wiesenthal's words day in and day out. And in 2008, > with your help, we will continue this important work and: > > - Combat, by way of our office in Paris, the UN Human Rights Council > and other international agenciesâEURO(tm) anti-Israel campaigns. > Photo: Rabbi Hier with Louise Arbour, UN High Commissioner for Human > Rights > > - Release Digital Terrorism and Hate 2.0 CD that incorporates ireport > where you can monitor the 7,000+ hate sites and blogs. > > - Recruit a network of dedicated student advocates, for the SWC Campus > Outreach Program, who will observe and report on anti-Semitic and anti- > Israel activities here and abroad. > > - Produce SWC Moriah Films' latest documentary on America during the > Holocaust. > > - Create the Center for Human Dignity and Museum of Tolerance, in the > heart of Jerusalem, to impact the lives of millions of Israeli > citizens and visitors. > > - Expand the Los Angeles Museum of Tolerance with a new cultural > center and redesigned facility. > > - Feature Simon WiesenthalâEURO(tm)s office from Vienna--including his > library, artifacts and honors--as a major highlight of the MOT (photo > left). > > These are times that demand action. Simon Wiesenthal Center is on the > frontline for you in Europe, North America and across the globe in > 2008. But we cannot do it alone. Please respond generously. > > In the coming year, there is no more meaningful way to remember the > words of Simon Wiesenthal than by helping strengthen the Center in his > name. > > Rabbi Marvin Hier > Founder and Dean > > I remember the words of Simon Wiesenthal when he let his fantasy take over. Is it same Wiesenthal who created a SOAP MYTH or is it the Wiesenthal who worked as a propaganda writer or perhaps the one who saw 500 Jews electrocuted in Belzec "The people, pressed together and driven on by the SS, Latvians and Ukrainians, go through the open door into the "bath." Five hundred persons could fit at a time. The floor of the "bath chamber" was made of metal and shower heads hung from the ceiling. When the room was full, the SS turned on the 5,000 volts of electric current in the metal plate. At the same time water poured from the shower heads. A short scream and the execution was over. An SS chief physician named Schmidt determined through a peep hole that the victims were dead. The second door was opened and the "corpse commando" came in and quickly removed the dead. It was ready for the next 500" From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:03:55 EST 2007 Article: 1236033 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:598136 soc.culture.german:380281 soc.culture.jewish:1804072 soc.culture.israel:1664596 alt.revisionism:1236033 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail Message-ID: <476DAE79.4070403@hotmail.com> From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Contract, the Amish and the Jews References: <19b3ec06-d71e-4e50-8ae0-03dc298e64a0@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 99 NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.net 1198370386 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:40:25 -0500 B'injamin Cr'amer wrote: > > "jgarbuz" wrote in message > news:0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> On Dec 22, 5:38 am, Doomdsay Cultist wrote: >>> Oops, I meant to say, "contrast, the Amish and the Jews >>> >>> > The Amish are a truly spiritual people. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> >http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml >>> >>> > Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn >>> >>> > Amish Mourn Victims Of School Shootings, Urge Forgiveness Of Killer >>> >>> > QUARRYVILLE, Pa. Oct. 4, 2006 >>> >>> > Forgiveness in Amish Country >>> >>> > Two days after the heartbreaking school shooting in the Pennsylvania >>> > Dutch countryside, church elders are calling for forgiveness. Byron >>> > Pitts reports. >>> >>> > Amish School Shooting >>> >>> > Man takes about a dozen girls hostage in a one-room schoolhouse, kills >>> > at least five. >>> >>> > (CBS/AP) In just about any other community, a deadly school shooting >>> > would have brought demands from civic leaders for tighter gun laws and >>> > better security, and the victims' loved ones would have lashed out at >>> > the gunman's family or threatened to sue. >>> >>> > But that's not the Amish way. >>> >>> > As they struggle with the slayings of five of their children in a one- >>> > room schoolhouse, the Amish in this Lancaster County village are >>> > turning the other cheek, urging forgiveness of the killer and quietly >>> > accepting what comes their way as God's will. >>> >>> > "They know their children are going to heaven. They know their >>> > children are innocent ... and they know that they will join them in >>> > death," said Gertrude Huntington, a Michigan researcher and expert on >>> > children in Amish society. >>> >>> > "The hurt is very great," Huntington said. "But they don't balance the >>> > hurt with hate." >>> >>> > In the aftermath of Monday's violence, the Amish are looking inward, >>> > relying on themselves and their faith, just as they have for >>> > centuries. They hold themselves apart from the modern world, and have >>> > as little to do with civil authorities as possible. >>> >>> > Amish mourners have been going from home to home for two days to >>> > attend viewings for the five victims, all little girls laid out in >>> > white dresses made by their families. Such viewings occur almost >>> > immediately after the bodies arrive at the parents' homes. >>> >>> > Typically, they are so crowded, "if you start crying, you've got to >>> > figure out whose shoulder to cry on," said Rita Rhoads, a Mennonite >>> > midwife who delivered two of the five girls slain in the attack. >>> >>> > At some Amish viewings, upwards of 1,000 to 1,500 people might visit a >>> > family's home to pay respects, according to Jack Meyer, 60, a buggy >>> > operator in Bird in Hand. Such visits are important, given the lack of >>> > e-mail and phone communication, Meyer said. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> > "I hope they stay around here and they'll have a lot of friends and a >>> > lot of support," Daniel Esh, a 57-year-old Amish artist and woodworker >>> > whose three grandnephews were inside the school during the attack, >>> > said of the Roberts.< >> >> Yeah, but the Amish dress like Jewish Hassidim. But, of course they >> can forgive, because they only lost 5 children. The Jews lost over 1 >> million children in the last 65 years > > Did they? Care to provide some detail? > > This is good, here we are talking how Amish culture and society is very forgiving yet this asswipe manages to squeeze Jewish children into it. http://tinyurl.com/h6rvk From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:03:56 EST 2007 Article: 1236035 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236035 soc.culture.usa:2069153 soc.culture.asian.american:438412 soc.culture.japan:428779 soc.culture.china:853286 us.military.army:632783 alt.politics:3281597 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail Message-ID: <476DAF76.20403@hotmail.com> From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.china,us.military.army,alt.politics Subject: Re: WWII: Japan, not FDR, is Responsible (Internments,Hiroshima,Oil Embargo) References: <13mravsj1ggcc25@corp.supernews.com> In-Reply-To: <13mravsj1ggcc25@corp.supernews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 84 NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.net 1198370639 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:43:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:43:59 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:44:38 -0500 messenger wrote: > It was the fault of Japan that the US had to shut off oil to Japan, > it was the fault of Japan that the US had to intern Japanese-Americans, > it was the fault of Japan that the US had to nuclear bomb Japan. > Because if Japan had not committed the act of aggression of invading > China, none of them would have had happened. > > > pearl-harbor wrote: > > President Franklin D. Roosevelt put the lives of innocent Asians > > before the enormous profits from oil sales to Japan's genocidal war > > machine. This makes him the greatest humanitarian hero of Asians! > > > > Before the Japanese surprise attack at Pearl Harbor, President > > Roosevelt morally had to stop selling oil to genocidal Japan because > > the Japanese were using the American oil to fuel their brutal, > > merciless invasion of the Asian continent. In which tens of millions > > of innocent Asians were slaughtered. > > > > Think about it, you evil scum, can you really live with yourself when > > some blood thirty criminals are using YOUR oil to commit genocide? > > > > Moral people can never do that. President Roosevelt was indeed a > > highly moral person. That's why he cut off oil to the genocidal war > > criminals. > > > > The cutting off of oil to genocidal Japan wasn't easy for President > > Roosevelt. At the time, it was the Great Depression and the U.S. was > > in dire need of money. But Franklin D. Roosevelt, having a high moral > > standards, couldn't have blood of Asians on his conscience. So he > > refused the blood money and cut off further business with the > > genocidal war criminals. > > > > What a great man! The man of the century! > > And to those evil Satan worshipers who despise President Franklin D. > > Roosevelt: GO TO HELL! > > > pearl-harbor wrote: > > > > In addition, you evil scum, The truth was Franklin D. Roosevelt was > > just > > carrying out the moral duty of stopping the sale of American oil to > > Japan in which Japan was fueling their genocide of other Asians with > > it. > > > > That there was no provocation there. Japan was using an American > > product to commit atrocities, therefore it was a moral duty of the > > President to cease aiding and abetting the war criminals. Else America > > would have had been partly responsible for genocidal Japan's crimes. > > > > After the oil was cut off, the proper thing for the Japanese to do was > > to cease their aggression and retreat. But criminals rarely get > > rehabilitated unless they get a good whopping. > > > > In addition, shut up you evil scum! FDR was a great hero. He > > protected > > America from evil by aiding America's allies. If one does not help his > > neighbors from harm, then the harm will come to him next. > > > > The real traitors are the Axis leaders. They betrayed their people and > > nations by waging reckless acts of aggression. Which resulted in their > > terrible ruin. > > > > In addition, It was a good thing that the US fought the axis so early. > > Fighting the Axis after they consolidate and integrate their conquered > > peoples, territories, and its resources would have had been a > > nightmare. > > First, the Axis would have had a much stronger and massive military. > > Second, the US would have had to fight alone. Third, the Nazis would > > have had nuclear bombs and jet fighters. American casualties would > > have > > had been in the millions! Even a chance of losing. Taking care of the > > "cancer" early saved the world. > > > > Why is it that you evil scum blame everything on the innocent and > > excuse > > the criminals? It was the Japanese who started the aggression of > > invading the Asian continent and it was the Nazis who started the > > aggression of invading Poland. I thought Roosevelt stopped selling oil to Japan because the Japan was in alliance with Nazis. As far as Asian people go, 20 years later USA managed to kill more Asians than Japan during ww2 From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:03:56 EST 2007 Article: 1236052 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236052 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr12.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 1 Message-ID: <9oibj.81145$Um6.31024@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr12.news.prodigy.net 1198371461 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:57:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:57:41 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PA@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:57:41 GMT Lagging again and guess who's behind it. The Juice From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:04:30 EST 2007 Article: 380281 of soc.culture.german Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:598136 soc.culture.german:380281 soc.culture.jewish:1804072 soc.culture.israel:1664596 alt.revisionism:1236033 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail Message-ID: <476DAE79.4070403@hotmail.com> From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Contract, the Amish and the Jews References: <19b3ec06-d71e-4e50-8ae0-03dc298e64a0@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 99 NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.net 1198370386 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:40:25 -0500 B'injamin Cr'amer wrote: > > "jgarbuz" wrote in message > news:0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> On Dec 22, 5:38 am, Doomdsay Cultist wrote: >>> Oops, I meant to say, "contrast, the Amish and the Jews >>> >>> > The Amish are a truly spiritual people. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> >http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml >>> >>> > Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn >>> >>> > Amish Mourn Victims Of School Shootings, Urge Forgiveness Of Killer >>> >>> > QUARRYVILLE, Pa. Oct. 4, 2006 >>> >>> > Forgiveness in Amish Country >>> >>> > Two days after the heartbreaking school shooting in the Pennsylvania >>> > Dutch countryside, church elders are calling for forgiveness. Byron >>> > Pitts reports. >>> >>> > Amish School Shooting >>> >>> > Man takes about a dozen girls hostage in a one-room schoolhouse, kills >>> > at least five. >>> >>> > (CBS/AP) In just about any other community, a deadly school shooting >>> > would have brought demands from civic leaders for tighter gun laws and >>> > better security, and the victims' loved ones would have lashed out at >>> > the gunman's family or threatened to sue. >>> >>> > But that's not the Amish way. >>> >>> > As they struggle with the slayings of five of their children in a one- >>> > room schoolhouse, the Amish in this Lancaster County village are >>> > turning the other cheek, urging forgiveness of the killer and quietly >>> > accepting what comes their way as God's will. >>> >>> > "They know their children are going to heaven. They know their >>> > children are innocent ... and they know that they will join them in >>> > death," said Gertrude Huntington, a Michigan researcher and expert on >>> > children in Amish society. >>> >>> > "The hurt is very great," Huntington said. "But they don't balance the >>> > hurt with hate." >>> >>> > In the aftermath of Monday's violence, the Amish are looking inward, >>> > relying on themselves and their faith, just as they have for >>> > centuries. They hold themselves apart from the modern world, and have >>> > as little to do with civil authorities as possible. >>> >>> > Amish mourners have been going from home to home for two days to >>> > attend viewings for the five victims, all little girls laid out in >>> > white dresses made by their families. Such viewings occur almost >>> > immediately after the bodies arrive at the parents' homes. >>> >>> > Typically, they are so crowded, "if you start crying, you've got to >>> > figure out whose shoulder to cry on," said Rita Rhoads, a Mennonite >>> > midwife who delivered two of the five girls slain in the attack. >>> >>> > At some Amish viewings, upwards of 1,000 to 1,500 people might visit a >>> > family's home to pay respects, according to Jack Meyer, 60, a buggy >>> > operator in Bird in Hand. Such visits are important, given the lack of >>> > e-mail and phone communication, Meyer said. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> > "I hope they stay around here and they'll have a lot of friends and a >>> > lot of support," Daniel Esh, a 57-year-old Amish artist and woodworker >>> > whose three grandnephews were inside the school during the attack, >>> > said of the Roberts.< >> >> Yeah, but the Amish dress like Jewish Hassidim. But, of course they >> can forgive, because they only lost 5 children. The Jews lost over 1 >> million children in the last 65 years > > Did they? Care to provide some detail? > > This is good, here we are talking how Amish culture and society is very forgiving yet this asswipe manages to squeeze Jewish children into it. http://tinyurl.com/h6rvk From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:04:38 EST 2007 Article: 1804072 of soc.culture.jewish Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:598136 soc.culture.german:380281 soc.culture.jewish:1804072 soc.culture.israel:1664596 alt.revisionism:1236033 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail Message-ID: <476DAE79.4070403@hotmail.com> From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Contract, the Amish and the Jews References: <19b3ec06-d71e-4e50-8ae0-03dc298e64a0@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 99 NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.net 1198370386 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:40:25 -0500 B'injamin Cr'amer wrote: > > "jgarbuz" wrote in message > news:0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> On Dec 22, 5:38 am, Doomdsay Cultist wrote: >>> Oops, I meant to say, "contrast, the Amish and the Jews >>> >>> > The Amish are a truly spiritual people. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> >http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml >>> >>> > Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn >>> >>> > Amish Mourn Victims Of School Shootings, Urge Forgiveness Of Killer >>> >>> > QUARRYVILLE, Pa. Oct. 4, 2006 >>> >>> > Forgiveness in Amish Country >>> >>> > Two days after the heartbreaking school shooting in the Pennsylvania >>> > Dutch countryside, church elders are calling for forgiveness. Byron >>> > Pitts reports. >>> >>> > Amish School Shooting >>> >>> > Man takes about a dozen girls hostage in a one-room schoolhouse, kills >>> > at least five. >>> >>> > (CBS/AP) In just about any other community, a deadly school shooting >>> > would have brought demands from civic leaders for tighter gun laws and >>> > better security, and the victims' loved ones would have lashed out at >>> > the gunman's family or threatened to sue. >>> >>> > But that's not the Amish way. >>> >>> > As they struggle with the slayings of five of their children in a one- >>> > room schoolhouse, the Amish in this Lancaster County village are >>> > turning the other cheek, urging forgiveness of the killer and quietly >>> > accepting what comes their way as God's will. >>> >>> > "They know their children are going to heaven. They know their >>> > children are innocent ... and they know that they will join them in >>> > death," said Gertrude Huntington, a Michigan researcher and expert on >>> > children in Amish society. >>> >>> > "The hurt is very great," Huntington said. "But they don't balance the >>> > hurt with hate." >>> >>> > In the aftermath of Monday's violence, the Amish are looking inward, >>> > relying on themselves and their faith, just as they have for >>> > centuries. They hold themselves apart from the modern world, and have >>> > as little to do with civil authorities as possible. >>> >>> > Amish mourners have been going from home to home for two days to >>> > attend viewings for the five victims, all little girls laid out in >>> > white dresses made by their families. Such viewings occur almost >>> > immediately after the bodies arrive at the parents' homes. >>> >>> > Typically, they are so crowded, "if you start crying, you've got to >>> > figure out whose shoulder to cry on," said Rita Rhoads, a Mennonite >>> > midwife who delivered two of the five girls slain in the attack. >>> >>> > At some Amish viewings, upwards of 1,000 to 1,500 people might visit a >>> > family's home to pay respects, according to Jack Meyer, 60, a buggy >>> > operator in Bird in Hand. Such visits are important, given the lack of >>> > e-mail and phone communication, Meyer said. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> > "I hope they stay around here and they'll have a lot of friends and a >>> > lot of support," Daniel Esh, a 57-year-old Amish artist and woodworker >>> > whose three grandnephews were inside the school during the attack, >>> > said of the Roberts.< >> >> Yeah, but the Amish dress like Jewish Hassidim. But, of course they >> can forgive, because they only lost 5 children. The Jews lost over 1 >> million children in the last 65 years > > Did they? Care to provide some detail? > > This is good, here we are talking how Amish culture and society is very forgiving yet this asswipe manages to squeeze Jewish children into it. http://tinyurl.com/h6rvk From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sat Dec 22 20:05:09 EST 2007 Article: 598136 of soc.culture.europe Xref: sn-us soc.culture.europe:598136 soc.culture.german:380281 soc.culture.jewish:1804072 soc.culture.israel:1664596 alt.revisionism:1236033 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail Message-ID: <476DAE79.4070403@hotmail.com> From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Contract, the Amish and the Jews References: <19b3ec06-d71e-4e50-8ae0-03dc298e64a0@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 99 NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.net 1198370386 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:39:46 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: FKPO@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFQATJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:40:25 -0500 B'injamin Cr'amer wrote: > > "jgarbuz" wrote in message > news:0f09f242-14dd-49ca-b6ed-f9924e561f7e@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> On Dec 22, 5:38 am, Doomdsay Cultist wrote: >>> Oops, I meant to say, "contrast, the Amish and the Jews >>> >>> > The Amish are a truly spiritual people. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> >http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/04/national/main2059816.shtml >>> >>> > Amish Forgive, Pray And Mourn >>> >>> > Amish Mourn Victims Of School Shootings, Urge Forgiveness Of Killer >>> >>> > QUARRYVILLE, Pa. Oct. 4, 2006 >>> >>> > Forgiveness in Amish Country >>> >>> > Two days after the heartbreaking school shooting in the Pennsylvania >>> > Dutch countryside, church elders are calling for forgiveness. Byron >>> > Pitts reports. >>> >>> > Amish School Shooting >>> >>> > Man takes about a dozen girls hostage in a one-room schoolhouse, kills >>> > at least five. >>> >>> > (CBS/AP) In just about any other community, a deadly school shooting >>> > would have brought demands from civic leaders for tighter gun laws and >>> > better security, and the victims' loved ones would have lashed out at >>> > the gunman's family or threatened to sue. >>> >>> > But that's not the Amish way. >>> >>> > As they struggle with the slayings of five of their children in a one- >>> > room schoolhouse, the Amish in this Lancaster County village are >>> > turning the other cheek, urging forgiveness of the killer and quietly >>> > accepting what comes their way as God's will. >>> >>> > "They know their children are going to heaven. They know their >>> > children are innocent ... and they know that they will join them in >>> > death," said Gertrude Huntington, a Michigan researcher and expert on >>> > children in Amish society. >>> >>> > "The hurt is very great," Huntington said. "But they don't balance the >>> > hurt with hate." >>> >>> > In the aftermath of Monday's violence, the Amish are looking inward, >>> > relying on themselves and their faith, just as they have for >>> > centuries. They hold themselves apart from the modern world, and have >>> > as little to do with civil authorities as possible. >>> >>> > Amish mourners have been going from home to home for two days to >>> > attend viewings for the five victims, all little girls laid out in >>> > white dresses made by their families. Such viewings occur almost >>> > immediately after the bodies arrive at the parents' homes. >>> >>> > Typically, they are so crowded, "if you start crying, you've got to >>> > figure out whose shoulder to cry on," said Rita Rhoads, a Mennonite >>> > midwife who delivered two of the five girls slain in the attack. >>> >>> > At some Amish viewings, upwards of 1,000 to 1,500 people might visit a >>> > family's home to pay respects, according to Jack Meyer, 60, a buggy >>> > operator in Bird in Hand. Such visits are important, given the lack of >>> > e-mail and phone communication, Meyer said. >>> >>> > The Amish have also been reaching out to the family of the gunman, >>> > Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, who committed suicide during the attack. >>> >>> > "The Amish neighbor came that very night, around 9 o'clock in the >>> > evening, and offered forgiveness to the family," Dwight Lefever, a >>> > Roberts family spokesman, told CBS News national correspondent Byron >>> > Pitts. >>> >>> > "I hope they stay around here and they'll have a lot of friends and a >>> > lot of support," Daniel Esh, a 57-year-old Amish artist and woodworker >>> > whose three grandnephews were inside the school during the attack, >>> > said of the Roberts.< >> >> Yeah, but the Amish dress like Jewish Hassidim. But, of course they >> can forgive, because they only lost 5 children. The Jews lost over 1 >> million children in the last 65 years > > Did they? Care to provide some detail? > > This is good, here we are talking how Amish culture and society is very forgiving yet this asswipe manages to squeeze Jewish children into it. http://tinyurl.com/h6rvk From snowonweb@hotmail.com Sun Dec 23 18:26:58 EST 2007 Article: 1236324 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236324 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr14.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Photo: "The rabbi then bent over the baby and sucked the wound." References: <2296c798-27d2-4a5d-ad1d-737bec60909b@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <1c8f84cb-ddf5-45b5-91c3-665f2a9cfe78@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1c8f84cb-ddf5-45b5-91c3-665f2a9cfe78@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.249.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr14.news.prodigy.net 1198424854 ST000 76.208.249.196 (Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:47:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:47:34 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[PGG[GGGZUUB\H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHPHBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:47:34 GMT Philip Mathews wrote: > On Dec 23, 10:24 am, Doomdsay Cultist wrote: >> "The baby cried, blood flowed on to his penis and - as the rabbi >> had predicted - > > This post has nothing to do with the topic of this newsgroup. > > Stop filling the newsgroup with your silly posts. > > -- > Philip Mathews I agree. This should be in pedophiles section or at least in jewish pagan rituals section From snowonweb@hotmail.com Tue Dec 25 13:36:07 EST 2007 Article: 1236492 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236492 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Alienation of the foreskin References: <37dd7b3abccd5d2f20753b77bd791bae@hermetix.org> In-Reply-To: <37dd7b3abccd5d2f20753b77bd791bae@hermetix.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.248.120 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1198473821 ST000 76.208.248.120 (Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:23:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:23:41 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@GB^@[AZKLNFXBWR\HPCTL@XT^OBPLAH[\BPIB_NVUAH_[BL[\IRKIANGGJBFNJF_DOLSCENSY^U@FRFUEXR@KFXYDBPWBCDQJA@X_DCBHXR[C@\EOKCJLED_SZ@RMWYXYWE_P@\\GOIW^@SYFFSWHFIXMADO@^[ADPRPETLBJ]RDGENSKQQZN Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:24:16 -0500 Anonymous wrote: > In olden times, times when the world was still a safe > place to live, foreskinology was practiced exclusively > by men who had an interest. They would take a foreskin > and inspect it in order to see if semen was forthcoming. > If semen was not allowed, then foreskinology went up in > smoke. That's true. They put it in their pipes and smoked > it. If you don't believe me, read the entry in the on-line > cyclopedia. It's all there as well as information in regards > to druidism practices with old peckerheads. > What amazes me is that every newborn in United States is circumcised regardless of religion. I still can't figure out what is the purpose of it. What is the religious context behind circumcision. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Tue Dec 25 13:36:07 EST 2007 Article: 1236497 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236497 soc.culture.german:380357 soc.culture.canada:596296 alt.conspiracy:1299042 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.canada,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Jew haters like the day's of Hitler and Nazism are now the Islamic terrorists and supporter of terrorism References: <20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 78 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.248.120 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1198474926 ST000 76.208.248.120 (Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:42:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:42:06 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJON_BRWSQDYZBCBNWX@RJ_XPDLMN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:42:40 -0500 Frank Arthur wrote: > "127.0.0.1" <127.0.0.1@127.0.0.1> wrote in message > news:20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net... > My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners > Filed under: Holocaust, Jews - joannafrancis @ 5:44 am > > Jew haters like the day's of Hitler and Nazism are now the Islamic > terrorists > and supporter of terrorism that fosters the destruction of the United > States, > Israel and Western Civilization. While 19 Muslim radicals, dedicated > to Allah, > set out from Saudi Arabia to inflict as much destruction on Americans > in the USA. > They succeeded by murdering innocent airline passengers including > women, children > and babies. They destroyed the World Trade Center killing nearly 3000 > people > of all races and religions at work and then went on to the Pentagon to > damage > as much of it as it could killing Americans at work. Much of the > entire Muslim > world cheered the destruction of the WTC and photographs of Osama bin > Laden were > eagerly bought up by Islamic supporters. Clearly and without > equivocation the > message and aim of Osama bin Laden is the destruction of the United > States,Jews, > Christians and the West to be replaced by Islam. And the Islamic > radicals from > Afghanistan, Palestine, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many others are on > track with their > aims. What do you hear from these supporters? Attacks on Jews and > Israel and the > supporters of Israel as if Jews were to blame! It were Muslims who > killed 3000 > Americans. It were Muslim radicals that later blew up London busses > and trains > killing people of all races and religions. Of course Americans support > Isreal. > Israel has been our loyal ally since 1948. Remember that Irael fought > a war > against five Arab amies intent on it's destruction, supported by > Soviet Armor, > Aircraft and technicians. The defeat of those 5 armies, destruction of > Soviet > bombers on the ground and the capture of 1,000 Soviet tanks led to the > humiliation of the Soviets and their retreat from the region. Who > should > we support? Syria? Iran? Hezbollah that killed hundreds of American > Marines > in Lebanon? > > Islamic 'terrorism' poses very little threat to USA, even less than Europe and if USA withdrew their military from IRAQ, the threat would be even less. It's a war of ideologies, not religions or ethnicity. There are many Jews that live in peace in Iran. The problem is between ZIONISTS and 'seems like the rest of the world'. Mind you that USA is under very heavy Zionist influence. You don't see islamic terrorist threaten or attack Poland, yet Poles have military forces in IRAQ but as long as Poland stays fair on political front as it had been, it is safe to say Islamic terrorists will let Poland be. You can say whatever you want, radio and tv can tell you all kinds of reasons, some people suggest OIL as basis for war but the basis for war is ideology. Since COLD WAR was over, ZIONIST needed something else that would drive policy changes and unite people. Remember USA is not one ethnicity country like European countries where people are united based on race. In USA what Unites People is common agenda that is created and led by government. United States and its policies very much resemble Hitler's policies and way of governing, very similar are military tactics. Homeland security is based on Nazi security. And remember NAZISM was part of fascism as well as Zionist and Republicans. As far as Islamic Terrorism goes, these people need to united and do something instead of whinning and crying and giving up. Remember POLAND after ww2 or even before. Poles united and rebuilt POLAND and they had done it many times before during three partitions of Poland. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Tue Dec 25 13:36:07 EST 2007 Article: 1236498 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236498 soc.culture.german:380358 soc.culture.canada:596297 alt.conspiracy:1299043 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-13!supernews.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.canada,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: Jew haters like the day's of Hitler and Nazism are now the Islamic terrorists and supporter of terrorism References: <20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net> <2zzbj.8339$DP1.5014@pd7urf2no> In-Reply-To: <2zzbj.8339$DP1.5014@pd7urf2no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 72 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.248.120 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1198475183 ST000 76.208.248.120 (Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:46:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:46:23 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:46:58 -0500 Kurt Knoll wrote: > And who gave Israel the armour. Today Israel uses American satellite > surveillance to kill Palestinian civilians. With crooks like the Americans > and Israel we will never see freedom or peace on this planet. > Kurt Knoll. I live in America and most Americans are peacefull, helpful, caring and giving people. Its the ZIONIST influence of american people that is causing American government to take such actions. The funny part is that there are many Americans who follow that ideology without understanding it, many of them live on the farms and are called Rednecks and apparently marry with cousins and have sex with family members (incest). Its the IDEOLOGY of ZIONISM that is going to destroy the world just as Bible says. > > "Frank Arthur" wrote in message > news:JCxbj.30991$N67.1847@bignews5.bellsouth.net... >> "127.0.0.1" <127.0.0.1@127.0.0.1> wrote in message >> news:20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net... >> My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners >> Filed under: Holocaust, Jews - joannafrancis @ 5:44 am >> >> Jew haters like the day's of Hitler and Nazism are now the Islamic >> terrorists >> and supporter of terrorism that fosters the destruction of the United >> States, >> Israel and Western Civilization. While 19 Muslim radicals, dedicated to >> Allah, >> set out from Saudi Arabia to inflict as much destruction on Americans in >> the USA. >> They succeeded by murdering innocent airline passengers including women, >> children >> and babies. They destroyed the World Trade Center killing nearly 3000 >> people >> of all races and religions at work and then went on to the Pentagon to >> damage >> as much of it as it could killing Americans at work. Much of the entire >> Muslim >> world cheered the destruction of the WTC and photographs of Osama bin >> Laden were >> eagerly bought up by Islamic supporters. Clearly and without equivocation >> the >> message and aim of Osama bin Laden is the destruction of the United >> States,Jews, >> Christians and the West to be replaced by Islam. And the Islamic radicals >> from >> Afghanistan, Palestine, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many others are on track >> with their >> aims. What do you hear from these supporters? Attacks on Jews and Israel >> and the >> supporters of Israel as if Jews were to blame! It were Muslims who killed >> 3000 >> Americans. It were Muslim radicals that later blew up London busses and >> trains >> killing people of all races and religions. Of course Americans support >> Isreal. >> Israel has been our loyal ally since 1948. Remember that Irael fought a >> war >> against five Arab amies intent on it's destruction, supported by Soviet >> Armor, >> Aircraft and technicians. The defeat of those 5 armies, destruction of >> Soviet >> bombers on the ground and the capture of 1,000 Soviet tanks led to the >> humiliation of the Soviets and their retreat from the region. Who should >> we support? Syria? Iran? Hezbollah that killed hundreds of American >> Marines >> in Lebanon? >> > > From snowonweb@hotmail.com Tue Dec 25 13:36:07 EST 2007 Article: 1236499 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236499 soc.culture.german:380359 soc.culture.canada:596298 alt.conspiracy:1299044 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-02!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-08!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.canada,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: My Mental Problems - A Primer for the Aspiring Genocide-Denying Scum References: <20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net> <13mtbgvnjjr3h25@news.supernews.com> <20071223143448.6769fc27@suddenlink.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.248.120 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1198475349 ST000 76.208.248.120 (Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:49:09 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:49:09 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:49:44 -0500 Panta Rhei wrote: > 127.0.0.1 writes: > > > > Do a bit of reading here, you subnormal dweeb: > > http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/document.htm Whole page of propaganda. If anything quotes should be in original language, but anyways there wasn't any document there that gave any order at any level for killing any Jew. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Tue Dec 25 13:36:08 EST 2007 Article: 1236500 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236500 soc.culture.german:380360 soc.culture.canada:596299 alt.conspiracy:1299045 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-04!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.canada,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners References: <20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net> <13mtbgvnjjr3h25@news.supernews.com> <20071223143448.6769fc27@suddenlink.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.248.120 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1198475509 ST000 76.208.248.120 (Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:51:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:51:49 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SNDERRMRWX[N[O@_WH@YR_B@EXLLBWLOOAFBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:52:24 -0500 RJ11 wrote: > In article <20071223143448.6769fc27@suddenlink.net>, > 127.0.0.1 <127.0.0.1@127.0.0.1> wrote: > >> Cite these "German Documents" that order the extermination of >> Europe's Jews. Just one document would suffice. > > "The accused shall not be punished because of the actions > against the Jews as such. The Jews have to be exterminated > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss. Although > the accused should have recognized that the extermination of > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > for this purpose, he should be excused for considering himself > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry > himself." -- from the verdict of the Supreme SS and Police Court, > in the case of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner, 24 of May 1943. > Quoted from "The Good Old Days", E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, > The Free Press, NY, 1988, pages 196-207. > > > RJ. So how would you say Exterminate cockroaches in GERMAN? I really can't believe Germans would use such word as exterminate, unless it had a different meaning 50 years ago. From snowonweb@hotmail.com Tue Dec 25 13:36:08 EST 2007 Article: 1236615 of alt.revisionism Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1236615 soc.history:231920 Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-03!sn-xt-sjc-11!sn-xt-sjc-06!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!nntp.csufresno.edu!tethys.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newscon04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr23.news.prodigy.net.POSTED!584e53d9!not-for-mail From: snow User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history Subject: Re: My Holocaust Problems - A Primer for Beginners References: <20071223125941.303a550f@suddenlink.net> <13mtbgvnjjr3h25@news.supernews.com> <20071223143448.6769fc27@suddenlink.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 68 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.208.248.120 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr23.news.prodigy.net 1198490141 ST000 76.208.248.120 (Mon, 24 Dec 2007 04:55:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 04:55:41 EST Organization: AT&T http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[OGBVOGZZV[CFD[LZKJOPHAWB\^PBQLGPQRJVMHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 04:56:12 -0500 It's all a bit strange wrote: > snow wrote in > news:VNHbj.34658$Pv2.12540@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net: > >> RJ11 wrote: >>> In article <20071223143448.6769f