The following exchange has been edited to conserve bandwidth. The
exchange is of interest because it demonstrates how reluctant
Holocaust deniers are to document their misrepresentations.

Mr. Sherwood's first message to Nizkor's Ken McVay:

==

[Headers trimmed]
From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: 
Subject: 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 17:41:43 -0700

what half million killed in buchenwald are you talking about? I am the son
of a british second world war veteran,all my relatives  served in britains
armed forces during the war I my wife and my two brothers have  over 50
years service in canadas armed forces. Now is simon wiesenthal a liar?
because HE says there was no mass murders of jews carried out on german
soil, they were shipped out of the country and done in places like
auschwiz, where is the truth?

==

To which McVay replied:

Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To:  from Eric Sherwood at "Oct 24, 98 05:41:43 pm"
To: esherwoo@direct.ca (Eric Sherwood)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:57:00 -0400 (EDT)

You wrote:
> what half million killed in buchenwald are you talking about? I am the son
> of a british second world war veteran,all my relatives  served in britains
> armed forces during the war I my wife and my two brothers have  over 50
> years service in canadas armed forces. Now is simon wiesenthal a liar?
> because HE says there was no mass murders of jews carried out on german
> soil, they were shipped out of the country and done in places like
> auschwiz, where is the truth?

Perhaps you would like to tell me what you are referring to?

You are not quoting Wiesenthal correctly, by the way. Here is what he
said, exactly:

"Because there were no extermination camps on German soil the
Neo-Nazis are using this as proof that these crimes did not happen
..."

Please - if you want to discuss what he said, would you at least find
_out_ what he said before you begin?

See http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar03.html for a discussion of
what he did and did not say, and an overview of the German gas
chambers.

==

Mr. Sherwood responded with the following:

From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:20:01 -0700

I have just read the site you referred me to. And it just re-inforces what
I have just wrote to you.People who promogate the "holocaust" are coming up
against second generatian  thinking "boomers" who are now starting to
question what they have blindly accepted in the past, and I am one of
them.The one world Gov't elitest.the rothschilds
,roosevelt's,morgans',bernard berach and other "round table" elitest,who
caused the first AND second world wars,who rearmed germany and helped put
hitler into power,and probably (although I don't have proof yet) even
conspired this holocaust on the world to gain world sympathy for Israal,and
the jewish cause .Lord knows why,considering that they seemed to have as
little regard for there own people  let alone ,gentiles.

==

McVay's response:

==

In-Reply-To:  from Eric Sherwood at "Oct 24, 98 06:20:01 pm"
To: esherwoo@direct.ca (Eric Sherwood)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:46:15 -0400 (EDT)

You wrote:

> I have just read the site you referred me to. And it just re-inforces what
> I have just wrote to you.People who promogate the "holocaust" are coming up
> against second generatian  thinking "boomers" who are now starting to
> question what they have blindly accepted in the past, and I am one of
> them.The one world Gov't elitest.the rothschilds
> ,roosevelt's,morgans',bernard berach and other "round table" elitest,who
> caused the first AND second world wars,who rearmed germany and helped put
> hitler into power,and probably (although I don't have proof yet) even
> conspired this holocaust on the world to gain world sympathy for Israal,and
> the jewish cause .Lord knows why,considering that they seemed to have as
> little regard for there own people  let alone ,gentiles.

None of which addresses your original misquoting of Mr. Wiesenthal, or
the false suppositions which stemmed from your misquote. Nor have you
told me what you meant by your comment about Buchenwald. 

Is it always your practice to speak around things in circular motion?

Adolf Hitler caused tyhe second war - you cannot wish that reality
away - and Adolf Hitler brought about the death of nearly 60 million
people, and you cannot wish that away, either.

==

Notice that Mr. Sherwood makes no attempt to defend his un-documented
victim count from Buchenwald, and now concedes it was an invention.

==

From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:47:24 -0700

What I mean about buchenwald is that according to simon weisenthal,there
was NO mass murder of anyone there. I personally don't believe that 6
million jews were murdered by the germans. countless thousands were. A fact
is ...there were 13 million jews in the world before the war, and cencuses
show there were 13 million after the war,How can that be, after 6 million
were killed? And how can I be called anti-semitic if the person I love more
in the world is a jew, and I mean jesus of nazareth.And moses and
Abraham,and the 12 desciples.My hope lies in them and they are all Jews, so
I love the jews. But I hate the lies that I am finding out have been
perpetrated against all humanity by those in possitions of
trust.............NOW...............have you heard about the over 1 million
German soldiers in OUR concentration camps in Germany and France who were
starved to death by US ( england france. usa ) on eisenhowers orders to

divert food trains from those areas?

==

In-Reply-To:  from Eric Sherwood at "Oct 24, 98 09:47:24 pm"
To: esherwoo@direct.ca (Eric Sherwood)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 01:21:56 -0400 (EDT)

You wrote:
> What I mean about buchenwald is that according to simon weisenthal,there
> was NO mass murder of anyone there. I personally don't believe that 6

Simon Wiesenthal did not say that. How many times do I need to explain
this? Where did you get your figure of 500,000 dead at that camp? I'm
still waiting for you to tell me.

> million jews were murdered by the germans. countless thousands were. A fact
> is ...there were 13 million jews in the world before the war, and cencuses
> show there were 13 million after the war,How can that be, after 6 million
> were killed? And how can I be called anti-semitic if the person I love more

Which census, before and after, do you refer to?

The Nazis themselves said that there were 11 million Jews within their
areas of control - take up your argument with them.

> in the world is a jew, and I mean jesus of nazareth.And moses and
> Abraham,and the 12 desciples.My hope lies in them and they are all Jews, so
> I love the jews. But I hate the lies that I am finding out have been

Which lies? You keep saying things to me which are not true, and you
keep saying things like "the lies" without being specific.

How can you accomplish anything when you don't have any specifics -
precision - in your conversations?

> perpetrated against all humanity by those in possitions of
> trust.............NOW...............have you heard about the over 1 million
> German soldiers in OUR concentration camps in Germany and France who were
> starved to death by US ( england france. usa ) on eisenhowers orders to
> divert food trains from those areas?

That came from James Bacque - he based his claim on flawed research.
The German government says it's false, and so do historians. There is
_no_ evidence that this occured.

==

Notice that Mr. Sherwood ignores McVay's having pointed out that he
has once again misrepresented Wiesenthal's words.

==

From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:14:05 -0800

the 1939 study of Aurthur Ruppin, Proffessor of Jewish Scociology at the
Hebrew University of Jerusalem, gave 16,717,000 Jews in the world in 1938
,the american jewish committeeestimated in 1933( which ended up in the 1940
world almanac ) figured the jewish world population at 15,192,089the 1946
world almanac revised this to 15,753,638.Another fellow ( whos name I'll
send to you as soon as I find it ),is a world famous chemical analyst,who
helps to solve criminal cases. Being convinced that the holocaust
happened,was allowed to do tests on the ovens at Auchwitz so he could prove
that "gased people were burned in there.What he found instead of mass
amounts of cynide in the walls (which there should have been,had cynide
infused bodies been bunt there) He found only traces of cynide,and as a
result of his investigation concluded that there was no mass murder of
anyone by cynide put in those ovens

==

In-Reply-To:  from Eric Sherwood at "Oct 25, 98 08:14:05 am"
To: esherwoo@direct.ca (Eric Sherwood)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:37:38 -0400 (EDT)

You wrote:

> the 1939 study of Aurthur Ruppin, Proffessor of Jewish Scociology at the
> Hebrew University of Jerusalem, gave 16,717,000 Jews in the world in 1938
> ,the american jewish committeeestimated in 1933( which ended up in the 1940
> world almanac ) figured the jewish world population at 15,192,089the 1946
> world almanac revised this to 15,753,638.Another fellow ( whos name I'll

The Almanac's figures were interpelated from prewar figures, as the
Almanac itself explains - or haven't you read it?

> send to you as soon as I find it ),is a world famous chemical analyst,who
> helps to solve criminal cases. Being convinced that the holocaust
> happened,was allowed to do tests on the ovens at Auchwitz so he could prove
> that "gased people were burned in there.What he found instead of mass
> amounts of cynide in the walls (which there should have been,had cynide
> infused bodies been bunt there) He found only traces of cynide,and as a
> result of his investigation concluded that there was no mass murder of
> anyone by cynide put in those ovens

His name is Fred Leuchter, and his work has been thoroughly
discredited. Someone is feeding you a line of blarney, old son. See
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter - he was never "allowed to do
tests," as you will learn if you will apply yourself, and a recent
movie about him makes it clear his study was worthless.

==

From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 10:29:24 -0800

All those debunked and discredited authors!!!!!!!!!!!! all their misbegoten
facts and outright lies. You asked me about what specific lies? Well now
apparantly you have them... Where is the truth? For every "fact " that
seems to be found, there is someone who can "prove" it is false. So what it
eventually seems to come to,is a person has to decide for himself what is
"truth and what is not".For example.Is Jesus Christ the son of Gods?Was he
born of the Virgin Mary?Is he sitting on the right side of God the Father? 
And IS in fact God even God?Our only proof of all this is in the Bible or
Koran,but it is debunked all over the place by people who can "prove" what
they say. I have had Bible study "experts" tell me to my face that a
passage that I have just read to them ,out of their bible is a false
misunderstood statement. 

==

In-Reply-To:  from Eric Sherwood at "Oct 25, 98 10:29:24 am"
To: esherwoo@direct.ca (Eric Sherwood)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:53:43 -0400 (EDT)

You wrote:
> All those debunked and discredited authors!!!!!!!!!!!! all their misbegoten
> facts and outright lies. You asked me about what specific lies? Well now
> apparantly you have them... Where is the truth? For every "fact " that
> seems to be found, there is someone who can "prove" it is false. So what it
> eventually seems to come to,is a person has to decide for himself what is
> "truth and what is not".For example.Is Jesus Christ the son of Gods?Was he
> born of the Virgin Mary?Is he sitting on the right side of God the Father? 
> And IS in fact God even God?Our only proof of all this is in the Bible or
> Koran,but it is debunked all over the place by people who can "prove" what
> they say. I have had Bible study "experts" tell me to my face that a
> passage that I have just read to them ,out of their bible is a false
> misunderstood statement. 

You cited Fred Leuchter, although you didn't know his name. I provided
you with verifiable truth that his "study" was worthless. I would be
happy to provide even more, but it seems clear that your mind is
closed. Pity, that. By the way, even Leuchter's _chemist_ said the
study was worthless!

Your failure to list any "lies" so we can discuss them is noted. I
base my decisions upon demonstrable scientific fact - you don't seem
too interested in that, but that's your way, I suppose.

Religion is of no interest to me, and has no bearing upon the
historiological evidence of the Holocaust. It's a nice red herring,
but won't disguise the fact that you aren't interested in doing
anything more than making rather silly generalized statements which
cannot be established in fact.

You misquoted Wiesenthal, I corrected you, yet you misquoted him
again. The first time is an honest mistake - the second time is not.

You challenged me on someone's claim that 500,000 had died at
Buchenwald. I asked you to document that claim, and you changed the
subject. In short, the claim was meaningless, and that is why you
dropped it.

You brought up the numbers, and I challenged you on your claims, and
you ignored my questions and my challenge. Why? Because you are simply
parroting things you read but do not understand, and making a fool of
yourself.

Please don't waste any more of my time with your crap. Take it to
alt.revisionism if you want to discuss it, but don't bother retelling
the same lies - like misquoting Wiesenthal - or the folks there will
have you for breakfast.

==

Mr. Sherwood's response to the above is truly enlightening :-)

==

From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 14:24:42 -0800

You obviously don't have an open mind.And are the type who likes to hound a
"detail" to death.You pick your subject of expertise,and know nothing of
anything else that goes on around you.As for the rest in the "forum" you
mentioned I have better things to do than chew a bone with like minded
people

==

In-Reply-To:  from Eric Sherwood at "Oct 25, 98 02:24:42 pm"
To: esherwoo@direct.ca (Eric Sherwood)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:49:06 -0400 (EDT)

You wrote:
> You obviously don't have an open mind.And are the type who likes to hound a
> "detail" to death.You pick your subject of expertise,and know nothing of
> anything else that goes on around you.As for the rest in the "forum" you
> mentioned I have better things to do than chew a bone with like minded
> people

Let's take a look at who has an open mind, and who does not.

Fact: You misquoted Simon Wiesenthal.
Fact: I provided the correct quote, and its source.
Fact: You misquoted him again. So much for your "open mind."

Fact: You attacked me for an alleged citation about 500,000 dead at
Buchenwald.
Fact: I requested your source.
Fact: You refuse to provide a source. So much for your "open mind."

Fact: You raise the issue of Mr. Leuchter.
Fact: I provide _documented_ evidence that he is a fraud, and that
      his "research" was worthless.
Fact: You failed to respond, beyond dismissing virtually all of the
      evidence - including that from his own chemist - that shows
      the fraudulent nature of his "research." So much for an
      "open mind." 

Fact: You mention census data from an Almanac.
Fact: I pointed out that the Almanac used pre-war data.
Fact: I pointed out that the Nazis themselves claimed 11,000,000
      Jews would be within their grasp.
Fact: You failed to address either issue. So much for an "open
      mind."

To recap: To date, you have misquoted a survivor's comments, not once,
but twice. The second time was willful - you knew you were misquoting.
You made a claim about Buchenwald which you cannot document. Why did
you bother making it? You made a claim about Leuchter, which is
demonstrably false. You are obviously afraid to discuss your
"findings" in public, probably because you yourself are well aware of
the drubbing you would get.

Typical of Holocaust deniers - lies, misquotes, misrepresentations and
half-truths. You are well suited for the task of making an ass of
yourself, I'd say.

From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:42:38 -0800

Let me make myself clear. YOU are avoiding the issue.so here it is. THE
Holocaust is a HOAX. If an uneducated guy like me has come to that
conclusion,and not just recently either,then HOW can an educated guy like
you that searches for the "truth" still cling to the old bullshit line
about  the Nazi's murdering 6,000,000 jews,It's all about collective
gentile guilt.And I don't have any! It simply didn't happen!!! It was
contrived, and hoisted onto our collective minds by the people who control
us, the rich and powerfull, the "Elite", the Rosenthals, the members of "
the round table" the "blildebergers" the "One world government" people are
behind it ALL. THAT is what I am persuing,the long range plan of these
people. And do you know what atarted it all for me?  The silencing of
Zundel.Before it became public,I accepted the "party" line about the
Holocaust, but then about 10 years ago the story of a history teacher in
Alberta came in the news apparantly he was teaching the kids that the
holocaust didn't happen,he was prosocuted,and lost his job ( I believe) and
 then it became public knowledge. Christie became involved and Zundel, and
our courts charged them with inciting hatred toward an identifiable race.
That set off alarm bells in my mind. Someone was trying to prevent us from
knowing something.In a land of free speech aman was silenced by the courts,
and his proof was not allowed,that is the oONLY reason I started looking
into why,and now I know.He had basis in fact. If you don't know by now that
the information that you have been holding dear for all these years is B.S.
then you"ll find out soon enough.It takes more faith and fanatisism to
believe in Darwinism than it does in christianity .It's because it is
another lie foisted on us by the same "elitests" who obviously have you
duped Even Darwin renounced his own theory before he died>


From: "Eric Sherwood" 
To: "Kenneth McVay OBC" 
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:17:01 -0800

There is no sense in going to school to learn the history that is taught
there.It is false.The Boer war, the french revolution the american
revolution the russian revolution , WW 1 and WW2 were all contrived and
planned .Now I'll ask you a question that  I have known the answere to for
at least 10 years,without a university education.  were the Americans
"surprised" at pearl harbour. or did they who were in power including
president roosevelt (one of the "round table" bunch) KNOW it was coming ,in
fact caused it to come, pressured ,and conned the japanese into attacking
them so they could get american public opinion to  get them into the war.
If you don't think so then, YOU'RE not as smart as you think

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