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Article 13244 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: M.I. Kaufman's def. of "intelligence"
Date: Fri,  1 Jul 94 16:01:19 MDT
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From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

"Rick Savage" writes...

   [long-winded pseudo-intellectual diatribe deleted]

aa824@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes,

> I am afraid that you are intellectually in over your head.  I
> would recommend that in the future you leave analysis such as
> this to people who are capable of reason.

  Is the above statement of yours an example of "analysis" by a person who is
"capable of reason"?  If that is your best example, we must conclude that a
person who is "capable of reason" must only posses the ability to insult
another's intelligence and ability.  
   If that is your standard, then, you are an idiot incable of refuting any
statement made in the article entitled "Gentile defined - Not non-Jew". 
   Did I succeed in fulfilling your requirements for a person "capable of
reason?"

   The only one who is "intellectually in over your head" is yourself Mr.
Kaufmann.  Your GLARING lack of any attempt at refutation of any point made in
the article you are responding to tells us of your deficiency in your
"cabability to reason."

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13245 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: The deaddog is back!  
Date: Fri,  1 Jul 94 16:11:12 MDT
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog  Writes:
>   Can someone who has Jewish 'blood' in them conceivably 
>  be an Identity Christian or not?  I think we need to know
>  the answer to this one, Rick:  it's important.

Hey, you do exist!  You skipped out on answering my previous message.  In case
you missed it, here it is again.  It deals with your question above as well. 
But as a side, what is important about your question above?  How about some
admissions or concensions on some of my answers to your previous points below? 
I think they answer your question above.

Deaddog  Writes:
>>  Let's review, once again, your own chronology:
DATE    EVENT
?       Adam, first 'white' 
Hypothesis:  Adamic race multiplies *without mixing in any way, shape, or form
with other races* and inhabits Israel. <<

    Try not to impose and project your Hypothesis on me, without asking for any
sort of agreement first.  Let's go over your mistaken impressions about the
"Adamic race".
  
    Out of the Adamic peoples, Israel came through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 
Not all Adamites are Israelites, but all Israelites are Adamic.  Abraham was
chosen for a
specific purpose, do you know what that was?  Why was Isaac chosen?  Why was
Jacob/Israel chosen over Esau? Jacob/Israel's election was for a specific
purpose.  What
makes Israelite's different from the other Adamites of their day?  Do you have a
one-word answer?

>>   ?   White 'race' in Israel along with many other races. Hypothesis:  Adamic
race remains in historical cauldron of civilization with numerous other races
for many years *without mixing in any way, shape, or form with other races.*<<  


   Your conclusions based on your own beliefs, not mine.


Deaddog:
>> Remember, Rick, religion doesn't count:  you know as well as we that
conversions were a dime a dozen back then (convert or the sword).  Heck, all of
the Khazars became Jewish; who's to say that during their intermixing with
Scythians they didn't become Christian or the Scythians Jewish? <<

    You are correct, "religion" doesn't count.  *Obedience* does.  Your other
arguements are speculation.


Deaddog ,Internet - nile.com
>>  By the tenets of your religion, definitions in terms of belief itself are
meaningless regarding the 'identity' of members of the white 'race.'  <<

   This is your own conclusion, not mine.  


>> Only genetics can decide who is or is not of the Adamic race. Do not try to
promote this false confusion again; it truly makes me wonder whether you
understand 'identity' Christianity or not.

    You can dream up imagined motives for me all day.  Your imposed belief
system and false conclusions have nothing to do with the subject. 
    Genetics "alone" as a proof for a descendant of the Adamic race is YOUR
conclusion, not mine.  I have maintained that the *Bible* alone, if we are
forced to use only ONE source, is sufficient to prove the identity of Israel
(Adamites through Abraham ,Isaac and Jacob).
Genetics is merely man's science that reveals God's creation.  Its usefulness is
as supporting evidence of the Bible, if anything.


>> The question now becomes how we can tell the difference between the two.  It
is *not* by religion; religion is irrelevant to the 'identity' of the white
'race.'  <<

   This again is your false conclusion and assumption.  It has EVERYTHING to do
with the Bible and the rejection of Christ's Way, that is the major proof of the
"Identity" of God's true chosen people.  Christ stated, "I came only to the lost
sheep of the house of Israel" and "My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me." 
    The self-styled "Jews" have rejected and HATE Christ with the most
visciousness they can muster, while the white peoples have overwhelmingly heard
His voice and followed Him.  Hosea spoke of this regathering of lost Israel to
Christ in Hosea chpt. 1.  
    It was through obedience to His Way, after hearing the call, that makes it
possible for "Israel" to be "redeemed" and reconciled. through Christ Jesus, 
back to God as His own people.


>> And it certainly isn't by skin color alone:  you have not yet responded to my
challenge to provide a test for how we can distinguish Jews from 'whites.'  <<

    Again it isn't "certainly" by skin color *ALONE*.  Your challenge was
answered in my last statement.  It is the most simplistic of all "proof", and it
has to do with OBEDIENCE.  Those who follow Christ and walk in His commandments
are His people.   Christ stated, 
"you shall know them by their fruits (actions)."   Non-Israelites can and will
obey Him by placing themselves under His Soveriegnty. This is Israel's duty, and
if they are neglegent in it God will call others to fill the gap to shame true
Israel back to obedience.

>>  By your own arguments, God doesn't just favor any folks with fair skin,
God's favor is reserved for the true descendents of Adam. <

   God's "favor" is reserved for those who love Him and keep His commandments
(laws).  The imposters who unlawfully claim title to "Israel" through
impersonation can be blessed by God when they are being used by Him to punish a
rebelliious and sinful people, such as true Israel is today.


>>  Rick, by your own definitions, Barry Shein or Ken McVay may be a much more
suitable vessel for God's favor than you. While they may not believe, if they
were to recant and accept Jesus, etc. the fact that they carry more white
'blood' than you would make them better 'identity' Christians, wouldn't it?<<

   Oh, I'll definately admit that Barry Shein and Ken McVay can be "vessels for
God's favor".  As I stated above, they are being favored by God to beat His
rebellious and stubborn children back into obedience to Him.  What Barry and Ken
need to fear is when true Israel does repent and turn back to their God.  When
that happens we will see the vision of Obadiah manifest into what they seem to
love to talk about here....
    "but upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and
the house of Jacob shall possess their (Esau/Edom's) possession.
    "And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame,
and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour
them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord
has spoken it."  (Obad. 17-18)




     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13246 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Kaufman displays his ignorance again
Date: Fri,  1 Jul 94 16:23:06 MDT
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From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

aa824@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman), writes:
> Not only is your 'Khazer' theory one that has been rejected 
> by all reputable scholars, it is also totally irrelevant.  

    Oh, boy!  The "experts disagree" line.  Do you care to document your
uneducated statement of OPINION?  I believe you will find that the "experts"
(i.e. reputable scholars) do in fact agree on the facts regarding the 'Khazar'
history of the self-styled "Jews" of today. 
    Where you refering to such reputable scholars such as Prof. A. N. Poliak of
Tel Aviv University, who stated that "The large majority of world Jewry is
descended from the Jews of Khazaria."  
    Or perhaps you were refering to Nathan M. Pollock who migrated to Israel
from Russia 43 years ago, Pollock a translator of scientific texts and
proofreader in a publishing firm, has devoted 40 of his 64 years to trying to
prove that six out of 10 Israelis and nine out of 10 Jews in the Western
Hemisphere are not real Jews' Jews, but descendants of fierce Khozar tribes
which roamed the steppes of southern Russia many centuries ago.
    There are more...  What was that you were saying in your previous message? 
Something about being "intellectually in over your head"?  I have an exercise
for you.  Go stand in front of your mirror and repeat these words several times.

aa824@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman), writes:
>  Since Judaism began with a 'convert'(Abraham), and because any
sincere person who chooses to do so may become Jewish, your inane
racial vision of Judaism is pointless, but typical of individuals
with limited mental capacity when they attempt to combine bigotry
with knowledge.

    The word "Judaism" didn't even exist until it was coined by Josephus after
the birth of Christ.  You better go in front of your mirror again and begin
repeating those words some more.  Your arrogance only exceeds your ignorance.


     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13314 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Deaddog's Creation arguement
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 94 01:03:08 MDT
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From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog  writes:
> Who did the children of Adam and Even mate with?  I mean, if you start out
populating 
> the world with a single pair of organisms, then your descendents have to mate
with fairly
> closely related kin.  But it's clear that there were other folks around at
about the same
> time Adam and Eve got chucked out of Eden, so this may not be such an
important 
> consideration for mainstream Christians.

    Why do you believe that the earth was populated by "a single pair of
organisims"?  Where does this theory come from?  I never stated it.   McVay
brought up this point also, and I asked him his source for such an idea.  Do you
have an answer?  

>  But for Rick and the Identity Christians?
    Ah!  This is more specific.  If we understand that the Bible is merely a
record of the family line of Adam and more specifically through Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob we can surmise that it deals only with these people and only mentions
other groups of people as they are encountered by the main characters of God's
His(S)tory.  In creating the world, YHWH God created an order, "kind after
kind".  He also forbade incest by His law.  It is impossible for creation to
start with just "a single pair of organisms" for these two reasons.  

Deaddog  writes:
> If Adam and Eve were the first mating pair, then what did
> their children do to remain racially pure?  Did their sons
> and daughters mate with each other?  And so forth?
> And, interestingly, is this still a feature of Identity Christianity?

     This is your hypothesis.  Your straw-man arguement is irrelevant because it
is built upon an impossible idea.  Where does this idea come from?  I don't
share it.

Deaddog, 
    What does this have to do with the discussion of the identity of "Israel"
and the exposure of the self-styled "Jewish" imposters?  Does it prove that they
have no defense to their claim to the title of "Israel" and have to resort to
created controversies over unrelevant issues?  
    The silence of all the self-styled "Jewish" imposters is deafening.   Their
only defense is not to put up a defense.  A wise move, when you have no winning
move.

    To state the conclusion to the matter again I can only close with the
imfamous unanswerable challenge:
    The talmudic self-styled "Jews" -- imposters and anti-christs --  have no
claim to the title of "Israel" as God's chosen because they have no relation to
the physical Israelites, except by religion which they adopted and perverted to
their own ends.  This invalidates their arguements and claims for the land in
Palestine, since they were never a people from that area.  It makes them out to
be representing themselves as something they are not, which makes them imposters
lieing about their identity.  If they lie about something so fundamental as
their identity, how can anything else they say be taken seriously?  
    Sure they are full of all sorts of hate, sarcasm and vindictive demonization
of those who would bring these facts to light, but they will not debate these
facts or attempt to show any error.  This is not refutation, it is not debate,
it is name-calling and libel.   Their only defense is to ignore this and hope
that it doesn't get widespread recognition.  
    Of course this is a false hope, because more and more honest inquirers are
seeking out the truth of this matter and it demolishes their belief in the
infallible "Jew" and all their claims.  They are then seen for who they really
are - liars, pretenders and benefactors of ill-gotten gains.  It is amazing that
such a people can exist, but the pretenders are their own worst enemy and all it
takes is to give them enough rope....and the rest is history.

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13315 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Answering a deaddog.
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 94 01:04:14 MDT
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From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog ,writes,
> The discussion centers on the descendents of Abraham, 
> Isaac and Jacob (dAIJ).  Rick has properly corrected me that 
> not all members of the Adamic race are Israelites; I have
> made corresponding corrections below in {}:

    We've progressed on that one point.

Deaddog ,writes,
>> Rick, *by your own words, by your own admission,* you have
just 'polluted' the blood lines of every member of the white
'race' on the planet!  You place the {dAIJ} during its
expansion in close proximity with another group that you
admit is *going to become white* because of intermarrying,
and is going to continue to expand, just like the 'true'
{dAIJ}!  <<

     You are reaching so far now that you have left the realm of all
seriousness.  I never said that anyone is "going to become white."  That is your
over-active imagination stretching my words to fit into your wild assumptions.  
If anything, the "white" would disappear in any inter-marriage because "white"
is recessive.
     Any mixture with a non-white is no longer "white".   If we all were one big
happy race all  mixed together there would not be any variety left, least of all
"white."  The self-styled "Jews" push so hard for this because they have nothing
to lose already being a mongrel people.   Besides it destroys their worst enemy,
Jacob/Israel.   Even in our liberal era we don't have rampant race-mixing among
whites with other races.  Back in the era we are discussing it was almost
non-existent in comparison to today.  
      The Khazar's got a VERY small infusion of "white" blood through raping the
women they captured in their raids of the nearby white areas.  They were a
totally seperate and distinct people from the white Scythians.  The MAIN reason
so many "Jews" look so "white" is probably because they are descendants of
Esau/Edom, who was Jacob/Israel's twin brother.   Some even speculate that the
Khazar's are descendants of the Edomites because they originated out of the same
area.  Sort of like your "logic" above.  

Deaddog ,writes,
Who is to say that the Germans are not descendents of the Khazars, Rick?  After
500 BC, how can we tell the two apart?

    Who is to say the Germans are descendents of the Khazars?  You?  How would
you prove such a thing?  By using the reaching "logic" you demonstrated from all
those un-associated quotes?  Care to dig into it further from the sources these
quotes come from?  Do you think they would bear out any possibility of support
for your idea about the Germans and Khazars?  It is easily thrown out the window
by comparing the two cultures and their histories.  Oil and water, fire and ice,
black and white...they are not even close to being similiar.
    Christ told us how we can tell them apart.  "My sheep (Israel) hear My voice
and they follow Me." (John 10:14-15, 26-27) and "By their fruits you shall know
them."  Those of mixed heritage don't hear the call of the God of Israel,
because the God of Israel, Christ Jesus, knows His own and calls out to them. 
(John 15:16, etc.)  The test of how we can tell them apart is by observing who
has generally heeded Christ's voice and followed Him.  Those who follow Him,
have been called by Him.  Those who are bear fruit through their obedience to
Him will tell us who belong to the God of Israel, Christ Jesus.  Clear enough?
    

Deaddog ,writes,
>> Jews contain 'white' blood and members of the white 'race'
contain Jewish blood and there is *no way* to tell the two
apart anymore. <<<

    This is your assumption.


Deaddog ,writes,
Come on, Rick, answer the questions.  Prove you're right.
It should be easy, right, since the Bible obviously agrees
with everything you're concluding, right?  Gosh, Rick, 
'Identity' Christianity is beginning to look a little shaky
here.  Do you think you're convincing anyone?

    I have no idea who is being convinced of anything.  I am just "destroying
speculations and every lofty thing held up against the knowledge of Christ."  
Who Christ's sheep (Israel) are is very important, at least He thinks so.  It
was important enough to admonish Peter 3 times to tend, feed, and shepherd His
sheep if Peter loved Him.  
    We are also warned in II Chron 19:2 that we will bring wrath down upon
ourselves by loving God's enemies.  If God hates Esau, we don't want to love
Esau if we are to obey His wishes and avoid His wrath.   If the modern day
imposters who call themselves "Jews" truly are "Esau/Edom" by the flesh or
spirit (haters of God), then we best not love them, but rather feel about them
as God does.   Make of that what you will.


Deaddog ,writes,
> Or do you think that just maybe you're being made a fool of? <<

     Is that what you are trying to do?  If that is the case, I could care less.
You are giving me the opportunity to carry on this discussion by answering your
silly questions.  Please, if you are trying to make a fool of me, keep it up!  
Your motives are clear for anyone to see and everyone will take you about as
seriously as I do, not much.

     Here is a question for you Deaddog (interesting thing to call yourself,
btw).  "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His
power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for
destruction?"  (Romans 9:22)  Who might these "vessels of wrath be?   The
context may give us a hint if we refer to a earlier verse in the same chapter,
"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." vs 13.   The vision of Obadaih is on the
horizon.  What part will you play?  

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13316 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Redemption and Destruction
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 94 01:08:30 MDT
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From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog  writes:
>> So, Rick, can the redemption you speak of, the redemption of
the house of Israel through accepting the Covenant offered by
Christ, *only* be granted to descendents of Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob?  Or is this same redemption available to all?
And if the same redemption is available to all, to black
and white, Khazar and non-Khazar, 'false' and 'true'
Israelites, then why does the 'identity' of the tribe of
Israel matter? 
   How does the redemption of different races or kinds or 
types differ, Rick?<<<

    Yes, only "Israel" can be "redeemed" (to be bought back).  Only true Israel
was ever cast off or cut off and in need of being "bought back."  Salvation is
another story.  Besides, "original sin" only applied to Adam and His
descendants. (Romans 5:12).  Since the Bible is only a story about the Adamic
race, specifically through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, we would expect it's
specific application would *generally* be only applicable to Adamic Israelites.
    This does not mean that non-Israelites cannot put themselves under the
dominion rule of Christ and under His Law-Covenant (Heb. 8:8).  Isa. 56 speaks
of such non-Israelite people as receiving a *greater* reward, because they did
and obeyed what was not required of them.  This duty of Israel and the Covenant
is one of dominion in Christ's name.  Non-Israelites are welcome to pick up that
commission and will be blessed for their service to the King of kings.  
    Salvation is a consequence of redeption.  Redemption is only through the
King of kings, Christ Jesus.  When Israel is redeemed through Christ, they will
again obey His commandments and do their duty.  The duty of Israel is to bring
everything into obedience to Christ Jesus and His Law-Dominion.  Through His
Law-Dominion, all the earth shall be blessed and receive "salvation" from all
their enemies who would oppress and destroy them.  
     The key to redemption is obedience.  "If you love Me, Keep (obey) My
commandments."  (Deut. 6:4-5, 11:1;  Matt. 22:40; I John 2:3,5).  The plan for
redemption has been addressed before in the "circumcision controvery."  (summed
up in Col. 2:11-14)

Here is a question for you Deaddog:
     Let me set it up first by quoting a few scriptures.
     Romans 9:13 "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."  
     Obadaih 18  "The house of Jacob(Israel) will be a fire and the house of
Joseph a flame; but the house of Esau will be as stubble.  And they will set
them on fire and consume them, so that there will be no surviver of the house of
Esau."
     "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His
power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for
destruction?"  (Romans 9:22) 
     Who might these "vessels of wrath be?   The context may give us a hint if
we refer to a earlier verse in the same chapter, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I
hated." vs 13.   The vision of Obadaih is on the horizon.  What part will you
play?  Does that answer your question?


Deaddog  writes:
[Oh, and Rick:  I'm taking the liberty of posting some of
your material to soc.religion.christian and soc.religion.
christian.bible-study.  Since you clearly want to see your
message disseminated as widely as possible (since, obviously,
no one will be able to deny it) I thought that other 
Christians should see what your ... interesting ... sect is
up to. <<<

    Thanks, I appreciate that.  It would be interesting to hear what the
Unconditional Love Cult thinks of Biblical Christianity.   Be sure to give my
e-mail address and encourage any and all to respond to me directly, if they so
desire. 

    Rick_Savage@nile.com
 


     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13317 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Re: Yet Unanswered Challenge
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 94 16:33:27 MDT
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From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog ,writes:
>> Come on, Rick, answer those challenges.  If your
interpretation of the Bible has all the answers, then it
should be easy, right?  And this stuff about "obedience"
is really not going to cut it:  if everyone can be an
'Identity' Christian solely by "obedience" then who cares
about the 'Identity' part?  But if 'Identity' as well as
"obedience" is important, then you better shore up your
origins a little better, otherwise the fact that your
(roughly) x to the 81st grandparent was a Khazar is going
to do you in.
   There's no point in just re-posting your dogma if you're
not going to answer my questions, Rick.  It just makes it
obvious to everyone that your religion may very well be 
a hideous lie. <<

    These are *your* opinions based upon your own projected straw-men
arguements.  They have nothing to do with anything I have posted to date, except
in your own imagination.  I asked before, in answer to your weird questions, if
you believed the original sources upon which was drawn your loosely strung
together disassociated quotes would actually PROVES *your* pre-conceived
conclusions?  
    These are *your* conclusions that you have put forth as questions to me.  If
*your* conclusions "prove" the Christian Israel-Identity's position as a
"hideous lie", then you would really have something wouldn't you?  You better
get to work!  Do your best, I'm anxious to see what you come up with.
    If your motivation is to use these straw-man arguements to attempt to
disprove "identity" theology then it lies in your interests to attempt to prove
your "confident assertions".  

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13318 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Answers Deaddog refuses to accept.
Date: Sat,  2 Jul 94 16:48:10 MDT
Message-ID: <0007D147.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog , writes:
>> Why do you refuse to discuss the implications of 
Identity Christianity?  That is, if the Identity Christian
point of view is that anyone with mixed blood cannot be
an Identity Christian, and that anyone who is not a 
descendent of AIJ cannot receive God's favor in the
same way that an Identity Christian can, then the "Identity
Christian's" whole existence is based on FRAUD and
FALSEHOOD!  <<

   This is an unsupported statement of *your* opinion.  You have yet to attempt
to prove one bit of it from original source material.  You have done nothing but
insinuate your conclusions through the use of straw-man arguements and silly
questions.  How long do you propose to keep going back and forth with this silly
banter?  How long will it take you to accept the answers given?    
    If your agenda is to disprove "Identity Christian" theology then get on with
it.  Provide some evidence to support your convoluted views.  
   
    I must thank you for our discussions.  You have helped generate quite a
number of useful questions which has inspired quite a bit of study that will
soon appear in a FAQ on "Israel-Identity Christian theology".  Your many
questions and their answers will be seen for all to view, thanks to your help.

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13320 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!EU.net!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Redemption and Destruction
In-Reply-To: Rick_Savage@nile.com's message of Sat,  2 Jul 94 01:08:30 MDT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <0007C889.fc@nile.com>
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 01:53:43 GMT
Lines: 11


From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)
	...

Um, bartender, whatever that guy is drinking I'll have two...

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13422 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Do BOTH Rick and Deaddog Advocate Genocide?
Date: Mon,  4 Jul 94 01:14:12 MDT
Message-ID: <0007E18E.fc@nile.com>
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

    Great questions!  I must compliment you!  We are finnally getting down to
where the rubber meets the road.  What are the consequences of the
Israel-Identity position being accepted on a level that would precipitate things
to the point of what we might call the "critical mass?"  Is that why the
self-styled "Jews" work so hard to malign, defame and demonize the teachings of
what has become known as "Identity" Christianity?  Upon what motive is this
aggresive attack justified?
    You have characterized the "Identity" Christian theology and belittled it as
"insignificant".  If that is so, why do you feel it is necessary for you to
attribute all sorts of evil motives and characterizations to this world-view? 
This action on your part implies that you see it as some sort of threat and thus
important enough to spend weeks "refuting" it through your never ending
insinuations and characterizations.
     This get's old.  Why not get off the moral high-horse you want to ride and
get down to where the rubber meets the road.  If the implications of the "Israel
Identity" message are truly life-threatening to the self-styled "Jews," it would
then be VERY important for the self-styled "Jews" to attempt to discredit it as
much as possible in the eyes of the people.
     This action of agressive counter attack, which you share, is just as much a
"genocidal" action as the one you are insinuating the "Identity" people are
guilty of desiring, is it not?  Do not both sides of the controversy see
themselves as "defending" themselves against those who want to "do them in?" 
Would not the self-styled "Jews" interest lie in advocating genocide of all
those they perceive as a "threat to their lives?"  

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13431 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Will Deaddog accept the answers he seeks?
Date: Mon,  4 Jul 94 01:50:20 MDT
Message-ID: <0007E190.fc@nile.com>
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog's questions:
>  (1) One assumes God created the white 'race' (I believe
you've said as much).  If so, who were the original 'whites'
if not Adam and Eve?   <<

     Who says that Adam and Eve were the "original whites?"  The only thing I
recall beings said is that "Adam" literally means the ability to "show blood in
the face, i.e. blush."  We explained how the white race is unique in their lack
of pigmentation in their skin which allows the blood to show through their white
skin giving them a "ruddy" or "red" appearance when the blood rushes to their
cheeks. 
     But where does the idea come from that Adam and Eve were "the original
whites"?  Was Abraham the "original Hebrew?"  Why is Abraham the only descendant
of Heber given any serious mention in God's His(S)tory, i.e. His Word?  For that
matter, why was Jacob/Israel the only "Hebrew" given such a staring role in
God's plan for His creation?  Could it have something to do with Election or
predestination that was ordained by God's Will?  Why was Jacob chosen over the
first-born, Esau? 
    If God can literally raise up "sons of Abraham from the very stones."  Why
not akinsman redeemer, Adam for his people?  Why was Christ called and likened
to a second Adam?  What about Adam and Christ's entry into this world have in
common?  What did Christ do that Adam did not?  


> (2) If there were *other* original 'whites' besides Adam and
Eve, who were they, and can you cite justification for their
existence? <<

   Good questions.  I think part of the answer lie in the questions raised above
in answer to your 1st quesiton.  
   Why have so many people not been chronicled in God's Word?  What is the
common characteristic about all those individuals who are given mention in His
Word?  It seems to me that the only ones mentioned are those who help glorify
the LORD's (YHWH's) name.  Was anyone remembered from the times before the
people of Noah's day and the people at Sodom and Gamorah were wiped out?  
   There was something interesting about the first few verses in Genesis chapter
one.  There is a word translated "was", which the margin note and STrong's
Concordance says could as well been translated "became".  Could this be the
world wide flood upon which "the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters." (Gen.1:2)?  If this has any significance and implies there was people
here before this flood, why aren't they mentioned in the Bible?  Could it be for
the same reason's the people of Sodom and Gamorah are not remembered?  
    I believe Revelation speaks of a second death and being thrown into a "lack
of fire".  Their are other places in the N.T. that speak of wicked people being
destroyed, consumed by fire, etc in the parables.  God promised not to flood the
earth again, but never said anything about fire to my knowledge.  This
"cleansing" is the reward of the wicked who did not choose life, but chose
instead to strive for their reward in this fleeting lifetime.  Will these people
be remembered?  I highly doubt it.


(3) How did the original white 'race' manage to keep its
bloodline pure during times when numerous instances of 
intermarriage are known to have occurred?  Actually I'd
like to know how can you prove the purity of your own
bloodline?  How do you know you're not a mongrel?

    Because God laid His Law upon their hearts, and part of that Law is
represented in the order He established at the beginning.  "Kind after Kind." 
If God can raise up "sons of Abraham out of the very stones" or raise up a
"man", Adam, out of the dust of the earth, He is certainly able to maintain a
select and chosen "remnant" to Himself, isn't He?  
    Only God knows everyone's complete geneology.  He knows His own and when He
calls, they answer His voice.  Many others have answered His call who may be
mongrels, but God says that nothing that He has not planted shall endure.  Does
this mean they will be destroyed, or will their faith save them?  That is God's
call.  
   Perhaps the mixed-race person only receives their reward in this lifetime
while suffering for the sins of their fathers?  This is very tragic and
magnifies the consequences of the evil commited by their parents.  Or it is
equally plausable that they will be purified in the promised "perfected bodies"
to be granted those who choose life and followed Christ into His death, burial
and resurrection. After all, if the circumcision that Christ desires (of the
WHOLE flesh - Col 2:11-14) does litterally "remove" the body of the flesh and a
new "spirital" creature is born out of this baptism and the power of God, does
race count in such an equation?  Who are we to say which is the Will of God? 
One thing is certain, it is up to Him according to His good pleasure.
  

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13445 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Deaddog Finally Loses His Credibility
Date: Mon,  4 Jul 94 02:00:03 MDT
Message-ID: <0007E192.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Deaddog incorrection and falsely writes:
>> This is utter nonsense.  *By your own admission* there was
extensive intermarriage during Biblical times.  *You* were
the one who was quoted chapter and verse as to the mores of
the times. <<
 
   I never said there was "extensive intermarriage during Biblical times."  Do
you want to retract your deliberate falsehood or attempt to provide proof I made
any such an exagerated claim?  Even if I did, I am about to contradict it, so
you can hold me "guilty" of correcting such an error.
   All societies who practiced "extensive intermarriage" died.  Noah's flood,
Sodom and Gamorah, etc.  The Israelites were commanded to wipe out many peoples
in Deut. chpt 7, but failed to fulfill this commission so God cursed the
Israelites by allowing these people to live and teach His people the
concequences for their disobedience.  In effect God said, "I will leave these
people in your midst to teach you war, maybe one day you will learn the hard way
that the kindest thing you could have done for your future generations was to
obey the command I originally commissioned you with."
    It is a shame that man must continually rebel against God's plan and bring
in the evil and misery that inter-racial marriage creates.  Everything God did
not plant will be burned in the second death.  He laid out the choice, to follow
the way that leads to life and the other that leads to death.  If we choose to
die by rejecting the way to life, can we blame God for our rebellious and stupid
decision?  I think not!

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13479 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Consequences of a Christian world-view.
Date: Mon,  4 Jul 94 02:13:53 MDT
Message-ID: <0007E194.fc@nile.com>
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

    More great questions.  Thanks again. 

Deaddog writes:
>> When 'true' Israel finally comes into its own, what will
be the role of these other peoples?  What will Africans
and Chinese and Hispanics do in your Brave New World, Rick?
Can you please expand on the roles of these peoples?  Will
they be subjugated by the 'white' man, Rick?  Will they have
their own 'separate but equal' nations? Just what's going to happen in your
utopia, Rick? <<<

   I wish I had these answers, I'm still figuring this out. I desire to see this
and do not yet feel confident that I could do it justice in attempting an
answer.  I believe we have hinted at this in previous questions and answers but
it hasn't been spelled out into specifics yet.  That is why I like your
questions so much, because this lack of such a clear vision is what has the
Christians stagnating.  Once they have this vision clear in their minds, it will
be very short before it becomes reality.  
   Look at how fast Hitler rose to power and threatened the world-order of his
day with his anti-Christ world-view?  What if Hitler did it in the name of
Christ and generated that sort of enthusaism for a Christian world-view rather
than his National Socialist one?
   I believe that God works all things according to His time and His people are
not yet mature enough to be given such a vision.  If they were mature enough to
see it clearly, it would be a rather short time before it became a reality.  


     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13496 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Deaddog's double standards
Date: Mon,  4 Jul 94 02:22:37 MDT
Message-ID: <0007E196.fc@nile.com>
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

You surprised me with this one buddy,

>>No problem.  I would politely caution you *not* to quote me
out of context, however.  While it is certainly easy to say,
please believe me when I insist that I would not take kindly
to a misrepresentation of my words.  I am also informing the
Nile BBS that I believe they, too, may be responsible for me
being quoted with scrupulous accuracy; whether or not they
choose to recognize this is of course completely up to them.
I believe current laws are rather vague in this regard.  This
is, of course, not a threat, merely an indication that I want
the record to be crystal clear.<<

    This is RICH!  You make it a matter of practice to misquote people out of
context and have the gall to say you would not take kindly to such treatment. 
You are a classic!  

     Don't worry, I am not quoting anything you say.  I have no use for your
arguements.  You have just provided me with the service of refining these ideas
into the most presentable form.  You are helping me weed out the potentional
objections before it becomes a problem.  My purpose is not to libel or smear
you, personally.  In fact you are acknowledged as a great help in producing the
upcoming document.
   What would I gain from such an action?  Nothing more than you have already
earned by practicing this exact thing...nothing.

     Opinions posted are of the user, not the administration.


Article 13525 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Re: Consequences of a Christian world-view.
Date: Wed,  6 Jul 94 07:38:11 MDT
Message-ID: <0007F229.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

 > In article <0007E194.fc@nile.com> Rick Savage,
 > Rick_Savage@nile.com writes:
 >
 >> Look at how fast Hitler rose to power and threatened the
 >> world-order of his day with his anti-Christ world-view?  What
 >> if Hitler did it in the name of Christ and generated that
 >> sort of enthusaism for a Christian world-view rather than his
 >> National Socialist one?

Deaddog  writes:
 > There is an irony to this that is almost breathtaking.
 
dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard),writes,
>>>   Yeah.  Most of the Christians in Germany at the time supported
Hitler and thought he was some kind of great Christian man.  Oswald J.
Smith even went so far as to claim that "every true Christian" in Germany
was a supporter of Hitler.  I guess that might say something about O.J.
Smith's opinion of Niemoller, Bonehoeffer, Wurmbrand and many other
Christians.  Of course there is revisionism within modern Christianity to
now claim the direct opposite -- that no "true Christian" ever supported
Hitler.  Both extremes are of course false.
     If another Hitler should arise, Rick Savage will most likely support
him.  <<<

    I didn't know that you were a long-distance mind-reader.  If someone rose
today who had the exact same ideology as Hitler, i.e. National Socialist, I
would *NOT* support him and this anti-Christ world-view.  Hitler had the Germans
engaged in state worship and was fighting for "Germany".  I would not support
such a leader who is doing it for the "state."  
    On the other hand, if someone did rise up with a Christian based world-view
along "identity" lines, like the early American patriots of 1774-1776, you can
bet that I would be behind such a leader.  Their battle cry better be "No King
by Jesus," like these early Christian patriots.  They might not have been
perfect in all their ideas (i.e. U.S. Consitution) but they were miles ahead of
Hitler.


**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13526 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Ben Franklin & the Jews
Date: Wed,  6 Jul 94 07:45:32 MDT
Message-ID: <0007F34E.fc@nile.com>
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

    Benjamin Franklin in 1789 at a convention concerning Jewish immagration said
the following:  
    "There is a great danger to the United States of America.  This great danger
is the Jew.  Gentlemen, every land where the Jews have settled they have
depressed the normal level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty.  They
have remained apart and unassimilated and have created a state withint a state.
    When opposed they attempt to strangle the nation financially as in the case
of Portugal and Spain.  For more than 1700 years they have lamented their
sorrowful fate, namely that they were driven out of their motherland.  But,
gentleman,  if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and
their property they would immediately find pressing reasons for NOT returning
there.
     Why?  Because they are Vampires, they cannot live among themselves.  They
must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race."

    If they are not excluded from the United States by the Constitution, within
less than 100 years they will stream into this country in such great numbers
they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we
American's shed our blood and sacrificed life, property and personal freedom.  
    If the Jews are not excluded while they remain in the counting house
gleefully rubbing their hands, I warn you Gentlemen, that if you do not exclude
the Jews forever, your children's children will curse you in your graves.
    Their ideas are not those of Americans.  Even when they have lived among us
for 10 generations, the Leopard cannot change it's spots.  The Jews are a danger
to this land and if they are allowed to enter they will imperil our
institutions.  They should be excluded by the Constitution."

    Ben Franklin on the Jews..."they are a threat to America and should be
excluded from the U.S. by the Constitution."


**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13543 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Re: Ben Franklin & the Jews
Date: Wed,  6 Jul 94 21:26:31 MDT
Message-ID: <0007FE5C.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit), writes:
>> I suggest you try reading Boller and George's fine book, _They Never Said
It_.  The Franklin quote is a forgery.  I quote from page 27: 

	"The Franklin quote apparently first turned up on February 3, 1934
	in William Dudley Pelley's pro-Nazi sheet, _Liberation_, published
	in Asheville, North Carolina.  According to Pelley, it was taken
	from notes made by Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, delegate to the
	Constitutional Convention from South Carolina... But there is
	no Pinckney diary, and historian Charles Beard, after a thorough
	investigation... concluded: "This alleged `Prophecy' ascribed to
	Franklin is a crude forgery.. . There is in our historical
	records no evidence whatever of any basis for the falsehood."

Now that the quote has been exposed as a forgery, I trust Mr. Savage will
admit his error, renounce the quote, and cease citing it. <<<


    It is easy to claim it is a forgery now, since the original was STOLEN.  I
have the history of this document, around here somewhere, that documents the
many people who have signed sworn statements as to it's existence and
authenticity.  
    So it really comes down to their word against Boller and George's.  It is a
matter of who you want to believe.  Given what Franklin said in the document and
the fact that he was in a position to verify everything that was stated, even if
he didn't write it, he could have and should have becuase his prophecy came to
pass as Henry Ford, Sr. verified in his book "The International Jew".  
    If anyone wants to verify it they can order the book, "The International
Jew" (abridged version) from Mission to Israel, PO Box 248, Scottsbluff, NE
69363 for $6.00 postpaid.  One of our biggest local Bookstores carries it, so
your local bookstore can probably order it, also.

**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13550 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Re: Circumcision and Covenant
Date: Thu,  7 Jul 94 06:35:08 MDT
Message-ID: <000803F6.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
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X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Daniel Segard) writes:
>>>   But you continue to miss the point.  Scripture clearly states that
for all generations the descendants of Abraham, his slaves from other
countries and their descendants were all to be circumcised in the flesh of
their foreskin.  And the Scriptures clearly state that anyone who does not
get circumcised in the flesh of their foreshin on the 8th day are *CUT
OFF* from the Covenant.  The circumcision of the foreskin is the only
*sign* given of this Covenant.  (See Genesis 17:11.)
>>>  The metaphysical circumcision of the heart given in Deuteronomy did
not mean that Israel was suddenly supposed to claim that Genesis 17 was a
lie and they were to stop circumcising in the flesh.  So you have still
lost the point when you claim that Genesis 17 was a lie and that dispite
it being so clear it has been replaced with your metaphysical circumcision
of the "whole flesh". <<<


    I think, Mr. Segard, that YOU are the only one missing the point.  I 
never talked about any "Metaphysical circumcision" (your words) and it 
certaining wouldn't be "mine".   It was Christ's New Covenant with ISRAEL! 
Heb. 8:8.  The whole chapter of Hebrews deals with the change in Covenants.  
The New Covenant/Contract does not completely nullify the old, but it did 
change it's terms.
    It is very telling that YOU, a Jew, is still caught up in the flesh and
the circumcision of the flesh, but you reject what is required!!  The 
circumcision of the flesh has become MORE than the mere circumcision
of the foreskin.  God now requires the circumcision of the whole flesh.
    The house of Israel (the "lost" 10 tribes) were indeed "cut off", read 
Hosea 1.  In Hosea ,1 and confirmed in Hebrews 8:8-12, they were to be
REDEEMED into a new Covenantal relationship with God through "one leader,"
who happened to be Christ Jesus (the mediator of the New Covenant).  
    Now we are getting at the REAL issue here, the JEWISH REJECTION of
CHRIST.  This isn't surprising, since they haven't "killed Him off" a long
time ago.  Remember?
    Remember that verse, "He who rejects the Son, has not the Father?"
     "The widespread idea that the Jews, while rejecting Jesus' claim to
divinity, consider him a great teacher and moral figure is completely false.  We
don't accept his claims and we are oblivious to his teachings; we are simply not
interested in him nor in what he has to say,  any more than Christians are 
interested in Mohammed."  from his book  "Living Jewish - The Lore and Law of
the Practicing Jew." Michel Asheri
    Cut off Israel is REDEEMED (bought back) through the circumcision of 
the WHOLE flesh through baptism.  
     "And in Him (Christ) you were also circumcised with a circumcision made
without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh *by the circumcision of
Christ*; 
     "having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up
with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.  
     "And when you were dead in your transgressions and the *uncircumcision of
your flesh*, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our
transgressions, 
     "having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against
us which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it
to the cross."
      (Colossians 2:11-14)

**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13551 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Went fishing...
Date: Thu,  7 Jul 94 06:36:42 MDT
Message-ID: <000804B0.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
Lines: 6
X-FirstClass: 0x59F8 0x000804B0 0x000F4B1A 0x000F4B1A 0x0000
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!thenile!Rick_Savage
X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

    The Nile is going down, which gives me an opportunity to take a vacation. 
I'll be honing the Identity F.A.Q. for a spectacular re-appearance.  In the
meantime, before I dissappear, I'll be posting a sneak preview in an upcoming
message.

**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13552 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: Sneak Preview of Identity F.A.Q.
Date: Thu,  7 Jul 94 06:40:26 MDT
Message-ID: <000804D5.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
Lines: 66
X-FirstClass: 0x59F8 0x000804D5 0x000F4B1A 0x000F4B1A 0x0000
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!thenile!Rick_Savage
X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Sneak Preview of the yet unfinished "Identity F.A.Q."

12.  What are the consequences of the self-styled "Jews" NOT being who they
claim to be, i.e. Israelites?  (Also see Q #4)
----------------------------------------------------------- 
    "We Jews, who have posed as Saviors of the World, we are today nothing else
but the world's seducers, its destroyers, its incendiaries, its executioners." 
-Dr. Oscar Levy, "The World Significance of the Russian Revolution," preface
(Oxford, Basil Blackwell, 1920) x
    "We Jews, we, the destroyers, will remain destroyers forever.  Nothing that
you will do will meet our needs and demands.  We will forever destroy because we
need a world of our own."  -Maurice Samuels, 'You Gentiles', p. 155, Harcourt,
Brace. 1924
     Not only is the pretender's claim to be "Israel" a false and fraudulent
one, but these same self-styled "Jews" actually are the most dangerous enemies
of true Israel and the world.  The impostors' claim on the title "Israel" is at
the core of any issue regarding the self-styled "Jews" because it is the first
and foremost LIE that every other "fact" concerning these people rests upon.  If
the lie of the impostor's impersonation of God's "chosen people" crumbles then
their very identity is founded on nothing but fraud and falsehood.  Any issue or
claim they may make follows this lie, and can't be taken seriously or given any
validity.
    Because this is the foundational lie upon which all other "facts" are
established regarding "Jewish" identity and claims, this matter establishes the
integrity of all their arguments which follow.   
    With the above (Q#4), we can conclude that the Talmudists (self-styled
"Jews") have no relation to the physical Israelites, except by religion which
they adopted and perverted to their own ends.  This invalidates their arguments
and claims for the land in Palestine, since they were never a people from that
area.  It makes them out to be representing themselves as something they are
not, which makes them impostors lying about their identity.  If they lie about
something so fundamental as their identity, how can anything else they say be
taken seriously?  
     These self-styled "Jews" don't take too kindly to being exposed for what
they really are.  They are full of all sorts of hate, sarcasm and vindictive
demonization of those who would bring these facts into the light of day.  But,
they do not debate the facts concerning them or seriously attempt to prove them
to be in error.  They do not attempt to refute the accusations, but rather
indulge in name-calling and libel.   
     Their first defense is to ignore the exposure and hope that it doesn't get
widespread recognition.  The next step is to ridicule the information and the
person or persons giving the information.  If that doesn't work, the next step
is character assassination.  If the author or speaker hasn't been involved in
sufficient scandal, it is an easy thing for them to fabricate one against the
person or persons.  If these don't work, they have been known to resort to more
direct means and even physical attacks.  They have no defense, so it is only a
matter of time, give them enough rope and the rest is history... The Truth WILL
out! 
    Of course these actions of theirs is a false hope, because more and more
honest inquirers are seeking out the truth of this matter and their belief in
the infallible "Jew" and all their claims will eventually crumble.  These
impostors who call themselves "Jews" are then seen for who they really are -
liars, pretenders, persecutors, murderers, destroyers and benefactors of
ill-gotten gains.  It is amazing that such a people can exist, but these
impostors who call themselves "Jews" are their own worst enemy because the more
people they defraud, insult and enslave the more people will eventually awaken
to the "Jews" true nature and identity. 
     George Washington (1732-1799), our first president in America recognized
the self-styled "Jews" for what they were: "The Jews work more effectively
against us than the enemy's armies.  They are a hundred times more dangerous to
our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in.  It is much to be lamented
that each State, long ago has not hunted them down as pests to society and the
greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America"  (Maxims of George
Washington, by A.A. Appleton and Co, pp. 125,126.)

**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13553 of alt.revisionism:
Subject: On Conspiracies.
Date: Thu,  7 Jul 94 06:50:40 MDT
Message-ID: <0008054C.fc@nile.com>
Organization: The Nile BBS
Lines: 26
X-FirstClass: 0x59F8 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x000F4B1A 0x0000
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!thenile!Rick_Savage
X-HoloGate: 1.0.7
From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)

Barry Shein writes:
>Because I've been saying to the revisionists on this list how
"amazing" it is that nearly every kook on the planet, no matter how
absurd and self-defeating their belief, blames some great Jewish
conspiracy for their lack of success. The truth is always a lot more
obvious and can be found by simply reading their whack-o beliefs. <<<

   Define conspiracy please, Mr. Shein.  This should be interesting!
Are you saying that no so-called "Jews" ANYWHERE have EVER cooperated
and decided to work together for any purpose?  That is all that is 
needed to fit the definition of "conspiracy."
   What do we have when we have a Barry Shein, a Ken McVay, a Deaddog, and
Kaufman all posting in agreement against the revisionist?  A JEWISH CONSPIRACY!!
Ack!  We should condemn it!  It's everywhere!  These "Jews" always support and
work with each other in all of these damn conspiracies!  It's hopeless!  We
should go home!  You got us Barry!  Your impossible streams of "logic" have us
spell bound...not!
   Your belittling of "conspiracies" shows how weak your slanders
are.  It shows your level of "arguement" to be rather silly and self-defeating. 
You should really try another line of characterization and defamation of your
"enemies."  You will probably continue in this hopeless line of defense against
those you can't answer with any solid arguements.  
   The only ones you may swing with this sort of "reasoning" are your buddies
who can't seem to rise above this level either.

**Opinions posted are of the user NOT the administration**


Article 13570 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Ben Franklin & the Jews
In-Reply-To: Rick_Savage@nile.com's message of Wed,  6 Jul 94 21:26:31 MDT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <0007FE5C.fc@nile.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 01:02:12 GMT
Lines: 53


From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)
>    It is easy to claim it is a forgery now, since the original was STOLEN.

Moo-hah-hah! How convenient! The dog ate Mr Savage's homework!

>I
>have the history of this document, around here somewhere, that documents the
>many people who have signed sworn statements as to it's existence and
>authenticity.  

Yeah well howsabout a few details so we can figure out if these folks
are just a bunch of droolers like yourself or not. Do you have
anything that pre-dates W. Dudley Pelley's publication of this quote
in his pro-Nazi 1934 periodical?

And besides, say Franklin did say something like that. SO WHAT?

What's your point?

Most civilized people worth the air they breathe would say, oh, what a
terrible thing!

But not Mr Savage! If Mr Franklin said some hateful thing once in his
life it's GOSPEL!

Tom Jefferson owned slaves, do you conclude from this that slavery
musta been a pretty good idea?

Scratch that, you probably do think it's a pretty good idea.

Ok, Ben Franklin was famous for his womanizing and adulterous
adventures, was a regular in the, um, parlors and salons where
gap-toothed women plied their wares.

So whaddya think, a good idea? Is this something your Identity
Christianity can look up to?

Franklin was also a Deist, someone who pretty much rejected mainline
Christianity other than at a few cross-over points. Not that far from
what we'd call an Agnostic today. They believed that God and "nature"
were separate, that God was of the realm of thought and ideas and
spirit, and the physical world was not His concern nor making.

Are you comfortable with that? Or only the parts you get to pick and
choose for us?


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 13572 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: On Conspiracies.
In-Reply-To: Rick_Savage@nile.com's message of Thu,  7 Jul 94 06:50:40 MDT
Message-ID: 
Followup-To: alt.satanism
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <0008054C.fc@nile.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 01:14:08 GMT
Lines: 39


From: Rick_Savage@nile.com (Rick Savage)
>   Define conspiracy please, Mr. Shein.  This should be interesting!
>Are you saying that no so-called "Jews" ANYWHERE have EVER cooperated
>and decided to work together for any purpose?  That is all that is 
>needed to fit the definition of "conspiracy."

Yeah Bubba, that's what I'm saying, you dumb sophistic wretch.

I mean, did you think that was clever?

>   What do we have when we have a Barry Shein, a Ken McVay, a Deaddog, and
>Kaufman all posting in agreement against the revisionist?  A JEWISH CONSPIRACY!!


One little problem, Bubba, they're not all Jewish.

Guess again.

Hmm, then again, maybe some are real, genetic "Identity" jews, and
others are fake jews, and, gosh, my head is spinning...

>You should really try another line of characterization and defamation of your
>"enemies."

Calling you an ignorant paranoid is not a defamation (or even an
opinion), it is a simple matter of fact.

>   The only ones you may swing with this sort of "reasoning" are your buddies
>who can't seem to rise above this level either.

Yeah well I guess that's why there are so many "Identity Christians"
like you, Bubba.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD



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