The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/roberts.jeff/1995/roberts.0795


From Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 26 05:52:03 PDT 1995
Article: 24361 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!Jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MACVAY and the  HOESS STATEMENT "edited"  AT NIZOR
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:06:12 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <315630019wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <3sf5kj$sj3@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <3shjrq$fae@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <623484582wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Monday, Jul 24, 1995 19.06.12
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

> > In message <3sf5kj$sj3@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> - 
> > kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca 
> > :>Jeff Roberts   wrote:
> > :>>The Hoess Statement (German & English) [from the Nizor/rememberance 
> > :>>resource]     
> > :>
> > :>>Paragraph 6 reads:-
> > :>>    6. Die "Endloesung" der juedischen Frage bedeutete die
> > :>> vollstaendige Ausrottung aller Juden in Europa. Ich hatte den
> > :>> Befehl, Ausrottungserleichterungen in Auschwitz im Juni 1942 zu
> > :>> schaffen. Zu jener Zeit bestanden schon drei weitere Vernicht-
> > :>> ungslager im Generalgouvernement: Belzec, Treblinka und Wolzek.
> > :>> Diese Lager befanden sich unter dem Einsatzkommando der Sicher-
> > :>> heitspolizei und des SD.......
> > :>
> > :>>[this translates to:]
> > :>
> > :>>    6. The "final solution" of the Jewish question meant the
> > :>> complete extermination of all Jews in Europe. I had the order to
> > :>> produce extermination facilities in Auschwitz in June 1942. At
> > :>> that time three further annihilation camps already existed in
> > :>> the general government: Belzec, Treblinka and Wolzek. These camps
> > :>> found themselves under the mission command of the security
> > :>> police and the SD.....
> > :> 
> > :>>>From "Der Kommandant von Auschwitz erzaehlt," in _Das Dritte
> > :>> Reich und die Juden_, edited by Leon Poliakov and Josef Wulf.
> > :>> Berlin Grunewald, Verlag-GmbH, 1955.
> > :>
> > :>>However, it should read June 1941. 
> > :>


> > :>>So was it just a typo, or does the source say 1942 as well?


Are you going to answer this question or not?


PS Since I gave you a citation for the Gerstein statement, you can give me 
one for your statement that the "SS drained the site " at Auschwitz II, as I 
cannot find any reference to any draining of the site in Hilberg or 
Reitlinger.

lay on Mcduff


Jeff

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

                                                  Descartes (1596-1650)  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 26 05:52:07 PDT 1995
Article: 24364 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!Jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Schwarzhuber Testifies About Gassing in Ravensbrueck
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:57:17 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <367393273wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <9507151329.AA01058@lems24.lems.brown.edu>
Reply-To: Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Monday, Jul 24, 1995 18.57.17
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article: <9507151329.AA01058@lems24.lems.brown.edu>  dk@lems.brown.edu 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> Path: 
stumpy.demon.co.uk!news.demon.co.uk!demon!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.new
s.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail
> From: dk@lems.brown.edu (Daniel Keren)
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Schwarzhuber Testifies About Gassing in Ravensbrueck
> Date: 15 Jul 1995 08:30:40 -0500
> Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
> Lines: 29
> Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu
> Message-ID: <9507151329.AA01058@lems24.lems.brown.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: news.cs.utexas.edu
> 
> SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Johann Schwarzhuber testifies about gassing
> in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp
> [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 187]
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> At the end of February 1945 I was called with Dr. Trommer to the
> office of the camp commandant, Sturmbannfuehrer Suhren. Suhren
> informed us that he had received an order from Reichsfuehrer Himmler
> to liquidate all the women who were sick or unable to walk. Before
> giving us this information, he asked us how many sick women there 
> were in the camp. I explained to the commandant that I had been glad to
> leave Auschwitz and would not like to repeat that experience. He then 
> told me that Sturmbannfuehrer Sauer, deputy to the camp commandant, had 
> been put in charge of the execution.
> I witnessed a gassing. A hundred and fifty women, all at once, were
> pushed into the gas chamber. Hauptscharfuehrer Moll ordered the women
> to undress and told them that a delousing was going to take place. They 
> were then pushed into the chamber, and the door was bolted. A male 
> prisoner, wearing a gas mask, climbed up onto the roof and, through 
> an opening which he closed again immediately afterward, threw a can of 
> gas into the room. I heard groans and moans. After two or three minutes, 
> there was silence in the chamber.
> 
Can you give me details of this order from H ot S? I can't find any 
reference in:-

1) Hilberg DOTEJ (1961)
2) Reitlinger TFS (1968)
3) Manvell/Frankel Himmler 

Of course, thats if you can...


-- 
Jeff

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

                                                  Descartes (1596-1650)  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 29 23:01:29 PDT 1995
Article: 24631 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: On Crematoriums and 'Revisionists'
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:31:49 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <113705224wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <199507240106.AA15747@world.std.com>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Jul 27, 1995 16.31.49
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article: <199507240106.AA15747@world.std.com>  dkeren@world.std.com 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> The Auschwitz-Birkenau complex had 5 crematoriums with 52
> cremation furnaces. The SS estimated the total cremation capacity
> at 4,756 in 24 working hours (letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer
> Jahrling to SS-General Kammler, June 25 1943, see "Auschwitz:
> Technique and operation of the gas chambers" - J.C Pressac,
> the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 247; I have
> scanned this letter and have it as a GIF file if anyone's
> interested).
> 
I've seen the GIF file. 

Can some German-speaker translate this document for me, so I can pass comment?
    
> 
> 
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:11 PDT 1995
Article: 24681 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Kevin Filan and "Deliberate Starvation"
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 21:09:48 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 123
Message-ID: <500767296wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <3tueo0$8is@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Jul 27, 1995 21.09.48
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article:   kfilan@netcom.com (kevin filan) 
writes:
> 	A few weeks earlier Jeff Roberts claimed (repeatedly) that the 
> Nazis had no "deliberate policy of starvation."  When I asked him to 
> define "deliberate" for me, he suggested that I "look it up in a 
dictionary."
> 	And so I did. 

"A few weeks earlier". It certainly took you some time. Try looking under 
the letter "d", instead of opening the book at random pages.   
 
> 	Below is the definition of the adjective "deliberate" taken from 
> the 1988 Edition of the Merriam Webster dictionary.
> DELIBERATE: adj.  (L. _deliberatus_, pp of _delibarare_, to weigh in 
> mind, ponder, irreg. from _de_ + _libra_ scale, pound) (15c)
> 1.  Characterized by or resulting from careful and thorough consideration 
> (a _____ decision).
> 2.  Characterized by awareness of the consequences.  (a _______ 
falsehood).
> 3.  Slow, unhurried, and steady, as though allowing time for decision on 
> each individual action involved.  (a _______ pace).  
> SYN see VOLUNTARY -- deliberately (adv) -- deliberateness (n).
> 	With that in mind, let's consider whether or not the Nazis had a 
> "deliberate" policy of starvation.
> 
> 	Based on the first definition, we would need to look for a plan 
> for starvation.  In other words, we'd want something like a paper from a 
> conference stating that "We will starve these Jews and subhumans to death 
> through giving them insufficient rations."  This appears to be the 
> definition Mr. Roberts wants us to use.
 
> 	And, unfortunately for him, there's evidence that there were
> indeed _deliberate_ policies of starvation.  Remember the document in 
> which the governor of occupied Poland talks about how he's going to strip 
> the area of agricultural products and ship them back to Germany... even 
> though this will result in famine for the natives of occupied Poland.  In 
> other words, he _deliberately_ set out to starve these Slavic subhumans.
> 	(Mr. Roberts may consider this justified: he has said that 
> feeding your own people at any cost is morally correct.  But that is not 
> the original point of the argument.  Originally Mr. Roberts claimed that 
> there was "no deliberate policy of starvation" 

The original point of the argument was "No deliberate policy of starvation 
for concentration camp inmates".   

So you've gone off the point. 

However I agree, that the decision to deprive Poles of food for Germans was 
premediated. However, there was mitigating circumstances. 

> ... not that there was a justified one).  
>
> 	By the second definition the Nazis UNQUESTIONABLY had a 
> deliberate policy of starvation.  They were aware that there was massive 
> famine going on in the ghettos.  They were aware of the obscenely high 
> death rates in various work camps as early as 1942.  (Ample documentation 
> of this exists).  
> I.G. Farben was certainly aware of the horrible conditions endured by its 
> slave laborers in the Buna plant.  So if "deliberate" is taken to mean 
> "aware of the consequences" then the Nazis were certainly guilty of 
> deliberate starvation.

Quote from Reitlinger [the final Solution (1968) page 169]
"Himmler wrote to the Inspectorate that the death rate must be brought down 
at all costs. Though 136,700 had been admitted to the camps in six months, 
80,000 of them were no longer alive."   

So Himmler is deliberately starving the prisoners, yet orders the death rate 
to be brought down at all costs. That's nonsense.  

> 	The third definition suggests care and consideration.  This is a 
> point over which revisionists and exterminationists will disagree.  The 
> classic revisionist claim seems to be that the death rates in the camps 
> only got unreasonably high near the end of the war, when the supply lines 
> were cut and disease was running rampant. 
> The exterminationists, on the other hand, point to the evidence mentioned 
> above as proof that there was indeed a _deliberate_ policy to exterminate 
> undesirables... and the shortages of food mentioned earlier seem to have 
> been a part of camp life throughout this whole period.  So I'd say they 
> were guilty on Count No. 3 as well.

Do you really think that Germany was awash with food during the war? Give us some evidence. 

So why are SS doctors in 1945 carrying out autopsies on prisoners who died 
of malnutrition, as Mr Stein had posted? 


You say there was a deliberate policy to starve "undesirables", [detainees?] "throughout this whole period".

What period was this? 1939-45? or what?

You keep saying that there was a deliberate policy, lets have some facts.
Please document this for me, as I've asked again and again.

When did this policy start?
Who was responsible for this policy and gave the orders?
Are there any documents or witnesses? 
Was it a constant policy or did it vary?

There's four points to answer. 

> 
> 	Would you like some salt with your crow, Mr. Roberts?
> 

Yes, please. 




Peace.

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The essence of war is fire, famine and pestilence. They contribute to its 
outbreak; they are among its weapons; they become it's consequences.

Dwight D.Eisenhower (1890 - 1969)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:43 PDT 1995
Article: 24725 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: APOLOGY - Please resend mail
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:52:36 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <373353356wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 09.52.36
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

To all who have sent me mail over the last 2 weeks.


Over the last couple of weeks, my computer has had C drive errors, 
and I have had lost all my email [sent or recieved], and a lot of 
other material.     

I have asked those people who have corresponded me to resend their last 
postings.   

If you have sent me mail over the last couple of weeks, please resend 
it.  


I would also like to apologize to Jamie McCarthy.  

[I was under the impression that he was going to reply to my claim that 
the book 'Commandant of Auschwitz' supposely by Hoess mentions a Jewish 
Sonderkommando entering the morgue which is being used as a 'gas 
chamber' after a 'gassing', smoking and drinking.]    

However, I must have overlooked that it was my turn to send mail. 
I beg humble pardon.

I am willing to continue the debate if Jamie so desires. 

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:46 PDT 1995
Article: 24726 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MORE ON GERSTEIN
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:37:38 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <339552748wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.37.38
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

"On April 26th 1945, an American Intelligence team discovered a German 
Civilian living in a hotel at Rottweil in the Black forest. He was Kurt 
Gerstein, a 34 year old mining assessor and former director of the 
Dusseldorf firm, Lihmon-Fuime. Gerstein handed the Americans a 
statement of seven pages, typed in French, together with those gas bills 
that were to appear at nuremberg, and then vanished from history." 

Well thats lucky. Prevents awkward questions.
[like his on estimate of 40 million gassed]



"It was alleged at the Peters Trial that Gertein was arrested by the French 
and that he hanged himself in his cell at Fresnes prison in July 1945. But 
Gerstein's widow was informed by the Red Cross four years later that the 
circumstances of his death in the prison had not been established. During 
the International Nuremberg Trial, Gerstein was considered to be alive, and 
the defence had the right to demand that he be produced in court. His 
unsworn statement could not therefore be produced in evidence. At several 
subsequent trials it was successfully challanged by the defence, but a small 
portion of it was nevertheless, printed in the official selection od 
documents from the doctors trial published in Washington." 

"in Gersteins second confession, written not in french, but in German, and 
discovered by his widow a whole year after his arrest, the after dinner 
speech at treblinka is ommitted, but there is a queer passage in which 
Gerstein declares that he had thought of entering the gas chamber himself in 
the uniform of a SS officer." 








(Extracts from The Final Solution (1968) by G.Reitlinger p161-164)


Check out

The confessions of Kurt Gerstein by Henri Rogues

available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:48 PDT 1995
Article: 24727 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: AIR PHOTOS STILL SHOW NO CORPSE BURNING PITS
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:40:51 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <252648908wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.40.51
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

By 1944 the transports exceeded the crematoriums capacity. The Hungarian 
Jews were being gassed at the daily rate of 10,000 and over; the Lodz Jews 
were killed in a few batches, 20,000 a day.
The Auschwitz SS man in charge of the body disposal, Oberscharfuhrer Moll, 
was working full steam. He employed four Jewish Sonderkommandoes in four 
shifts, a total force of between 1500 and 2000 men. Eight pits were dug, 
each about four by sixty yards in size. On the bottom of the pits the human 
fat was collected and poured back into the the fire with buckets to hasten 
the cremations. Survivors reports that children were sometimes tossed alive 
into the inferno. The rotten remains were cleaned up once in a while with 
flame throwers. Although the corpses burned slowly during rain or misty 
weather, the pits were found to be the cheapest and most efficent method of 
body disposal. In August 1944, when over 20,000 corpses had to be burned on 
some days, the open pits broke the bottleneck.
 [Page 629 The Destruction of the European Jews (1961) by Raul Hilberg]  

Christie (defence counsel for Zundel) turned his attention to the numerous 
aerial photographs of Auschwitz made by the Allies in 1944, and released  in 
1979, and to (Udo) Walendy's Historical Fact No. 9," whose title posed the 
question, Holocaust Now Underground?
Could you just tell us," asked Christie, what it is you indicated on the 
front cover of that publication?"
Walendy: [It's] an enlargement of a section of those aerial photographs 
taken by the American Air Force, showing two crematoria in 
Auschwitz-Birkenau, and also several barracks, these enlargements show that 
the crematoria did not show any smoke around. No dug-out areas [pits] were 
seen. There, apparently, people were buried and burned. It is also shown 
here  [in the booklet] that the Americans, in 1944, photographed the whole 
area every 10 days from a height of 6000 meters, and on not a single one of 
those photographs can smoke be seen coming from the crematoria, and also the 
area around those crematoria did not show what was allegedly to be seen, and 
since that time [1979] there are more and more claims that the Holocaust had 
taken place underground, and it could not have been seen from above ground.

Question 1) Did the American Air force photograph Wolsek in error for 
Auschwitz? 

Question 2) Did the Germans spot the US photo-recce planes coming in and 
quickly hide all traces of the pits where 20,000 corpses were being burnt?

Question 3) Did the fact that the US photo-recce planes manage to come over 
on the days when there was no burning pit activity, help the allies in their 
decision to bomb Auschwitz to stop the genocide?  

Question 4) [For Jamie McCarthy.] Care to comment why both Reitlinger and 
Hilberg say there was pit-burning  in 1944?

> > > 400,000 hungarian jews being gassed in 1944, and being burnt in pits 
> > > which allied air photo-recce fails to spot,

JC > Because (contrary to denier propaganda which is an outright lie on this
JC > point) the photos were taken while the burnings were not taking place.
JC > Please document these 400,000 people burned in pits;  to my knowledge,
JC > pit-burning was last used at Auschwitz in autumn 1943.




Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:51 PDT 1995
Article: 24728 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: FOUR QUESTIONS FOR BARRY SHEIN
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:44:51 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <176148820wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.44.51
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article:   bzs@world.std.com (Barry 
Shein) writes:
>
> Oh and what the heck, the piece of evidence Mr Raven et al hates so
> much. The Franke-Gricksch report, a report made by a Nazi officer after
> his inspection of Auschwitz and submitted to Heinrich Himmler in 1943:
> 
>   "..the unfit go to cellars in a large house which are entered
>    from outside.  They go down five or six steps into a fairly long, 
>    well-constructed and well-ventilated cellar area, which is lined 
>    with benches to the left and right. It is brightly lit, and 
>    the benches are numbered.  The prisoners are told that they are to 
>    be cleansed and disinfected for their new assignments.  They must 
>    therefore 
>    completely undress to be bathed. To avoid panic and to prevent
>    disturbances of any kind, they are instructed to arrange their
>    clothing neatly under their respective numbers, so that they will
>    be able to find their things again after their bath.  Everything
>    proceeds in a perfectly orderly fashion.  Then they pass through 
>    a small corridor and enter a large cellar room which resembles a
>    shower bath.  In this room are three large pillars, into which
>    certain materials can be lowered from outside the cellar room.
>    When three- to four-hundred people have been herded into this room,
>    the doors are shut, and containers filled with the substances are
>    dropped down into the pillars.  As soon as the containers touch 
>    the base of the pillars, they release particular substances that put
>    the people to sleep in one minute. 

The pillars are solid concrete. As anybody who goes to Auschwitz-Birkenau 
can find out for themselves. 
Or see the picture in the Leutcher Report.  

Question 1. How did the materials drop to the bottom of a solid concrete 
pillar? 

>    A few minutes later, the door opens
>    on the other side, where the elevator is located. . . . Then
>    the corpses are loaded into elevators and brought up to the first
>    floor, where ten large crematoria are located. (Because fresh

Question 2: Which Crematoria at Auschwitz has 10 retorts? 

>    corpses burn particularly well, only 50-100 lbs. of coke are needed
>    for the whole process.)  The job itself is performed by Jewish
>    prisoners, who never step outside this camp again.
>       The results of this `resettlement action' to date: 500,000 Jews
>    Current capacity of the `resettlement action' ovens: 10,000
>    in twenty-four hours."

Current capacity 10,000 according to this report.
The SS estimated the total cremation capacity at 4,756 in 24 working hours 
 (letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler, June 25 
1943, see "Auschwitz:
Technique and operation of the gas chambers" - J.C Pressac, 
[Recent posting by Mr Keren.] 

Question 3. What happened between those dates to reduce capacity by over 
5,000? 

>                   --from report entitled "Resettlement of Jews"
>                     written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Alfred Franke-Gricksch
>                     for SS-Col. M. von Herff and RF-SS H. Himmler, after
>                     inspection of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 1943.  This
>                     excerpt from "Hitler and the Final Solution" by
>                     Gerald Fleming, ISBN 0-520-05103-3.
> 
> This report done after Inspection of Auschwitz on 14-16 May 1943:

Quote from Reitlinger [the Final Solution (1968 ) page 159]

In fact Crematorium No 2 was not ready till March 13th. [1943] On June 13th 
it was still the only crematorium of the four which was actually working, 
and the carpentry work was incomplete. 

Question 4.

Current capacity of the resettlement action 10,000 in 24 hours. 

Please explain how the current capacity of Crematorium No 2 which is rated 
as 1440 acording to Keren and that at Auschwitz I of 340 in 24 hours in 
June)  ie 1780 can equal a current capacity of  10,000 in 24 hours in May? 



The Leucher Report is available from:- 
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


Jeff

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:54 PDT 1995
Article: 24729 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: BLACK WALL
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:09:01 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <239155358wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <9507190545.AA17813@lems24.lems.brown.edu>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.09.01
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article: <9507190545.AA17813@lems24.lems.brown.edu>  dk@lems.brown.edu 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> The testimony of former Auschwitz prisoner Fabian
> [Quoted in "Auschwitz: the Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by 
> Bernd Nauman, p. 292-3]:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The Pole Stachik rode into Block 28 on a bicycle and called out: 
> "Stretcher bearers! Two stretchers! One box! Two boxes!". If he said
> "one box", we knew it would be a small execution: one family with
> child. If he said "stretcher", then there was a big execution.
> Sometimes when we got there they had already been shot; but that
> only happened in small executions. When there were big executions
> we lined up in a corner of Block 11. Those who were selected were
> chased into the washroom and had to undress. The window was covered
> over with a blanket. In the yard under the window stood the staff
> of the SS. Everything went in double time. A certain Jakob took two
> prisoners by their arms and marched them over to the Black Wall. 
> Then we had to come running with the stretcher and stand behind the
> SS men who were doing the firing. When the prisoners were shot -
> they were shot in the head with a fairly silent Flobert gun - they
> fell over. I grabbed their hands or legs and put them on the
> stretcher. Then we ran to the canal in Block 10 and the stretcher
> as tilted so the bodies could fall off. While this was going on
> the two next ones were already being shot. Everything went very 
> quickly. The shooting of 100 prisoners did not take very long. Once
> the following happened: I was carrying the front end of the
> stretcher. Suddenly I heard a voice behind me: "Mr.
> Oberscharfuehrer, you didn't shoot well". Stiewitz had done the
> shooting, and he said: "Shut up, or you'll get it". We had to put
> down the stretcher, and Stiewitz once more shot him in the head.
> 
> 
> 

The "Black Wall" or "Wall of Death" of Auschwitz situated between blocks 10 
and 11, is a place where some 20,000 prisoners were allegedly shot. 
[Ditleib] Felderer was surprised to find a wall only one row of bricks deep, 
which would have been pulverized after two or three rounds, and no bullet 
marks in the area. He never recieved an explanation which satisfied him.  

[Page 133 From the The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.





-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:56 PDT 1995
Article: 24730 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MORE ON BURG
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:47:37 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <546287817wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.47.37
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7


In the autumn of 1945, said Burg, curosity had taken him to Auschwitz. 
Subsequently, he had spoken with hundreds of people who were there during 
the war.
Christie [defence counsel for Zundel]: In your books and correspondence, do 
you indicate whether there was gas chambers at Auschwitz, Maidenek or other 
German extermination camps?
Burg corrected Christies terminology: There were no extermination camps 
at all.
During the war, Burg had lived in a district under Romanian control which 
was reserved for Jews of the region. They had been collectively banned 
because many had greeted the Red army. 
It was a lot worse for us than in a concentration camp, Burg insisted. 
The German authorities looked after the inmates in the camps....we were 
left to our own devices.
Christie: When you visited Auschwitz in the fall of 1945, did you 
specifically look for gas chambers?
Yes, said Burg, although at that time gassings were not in fashion. Not 
yet. But I did look for them. I searched for them and I didnt find 
anything.
Christie: And did you find any evidence of gas chambers in 1945 at Maidanek?
Burg: Yes.
Christie: And what were these gas chambers in Maidanek?
Burg They were to liquidate lice, fleas, et cetera. Bugs which caused 
epidemics.
The Germans were super-bureaucrats, said Burg. It cant be that after all 
these years not a document can be found.
"I talked to hundreds of people who serviced and operated the crematoria," 
he continued, but the people who operated gas chambers were impossible to 
find " The literature was all completely contradictory. Why? Because it's 
all made up.
Christie: Does [Zundel] appear to be sincere in his inquiries about that 
subject?
Burg He told me that he saw it as his life's work to defend his people 
because they are defamed.
Christie: And do you agree that his people are defamed.
Burg: Yes.
Christie: And have you expressed these views in your books?
Burg: Again and again.


Burg [his original name was Ginsburg] wrote:-

Schuld und Schicksal (Debt and Destiny) 1962.
Suedenboecke (Scapegoats) 1967.  
NS-Verbrechen (NS Crimes) 1968.



The testimony of Joseph  [Gins]Burg, a Jewish inmate of the concentration 
camps at the Zundel trial. 

NB. I recall being told  that Joseph Ginsburg was deported to a Romainian 
concentration camp in a area annexed from Russia called Transdniestria. Can 
anyone confirm this? 
Does anyone know if his books [in English] are on sale?  


[Page 236 From the The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:37:59 PDT 1995
Article: 24731 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MORE ON DERING
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:50:20 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <684219825wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.50.20
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

A bit later in their booklet ( brought out to counter Richard Harwoods Did 6 million really die? in  S.Africa ) , Suzman and Diamond dealt with an interesting 1964 English civil case called Dering  v. Uris et al. They called it a a striking confirmati
n of the inhuman medical experiments carried out upon Jewish inmates of Auschwitz," and noted that the plaintiff Dering alleged he was libelled in the book Exodus by Leon Uris, and won a halfpenny  in damages from the jury.
(Professor Robert)  Faurisson  recalled that in the 1960s he read the book Auschwitz in England, by two British lawyers, which dealt with  the trial. Wladislaw Dering was a Polish surgeon who worked at Auschwitz and was accused by Uris of having operat
d without anesthesia on 17,000 female internees.  

Suzman and Diamond declined to give that number, however, because, as Faurisson explained, during the course of the trial it melted first to "a big number," then to "130 people, men and women, then to "perhaps five people," and finally to  "perhaps tw
 or three cases [which] were not quite clear." The meltdown was greatly facilitated by Dering's ability to obtain from the Auschwitz Museum the register of surgical operations, said Faurisson, who observed that  the Germans used to put everything in wr
ting....We must realize that in Auschwitz when there was one natural death, we had 21 signatures, and when it was a [suicide or other unnatural death], more than 30 signatures were affixed to a document about the death.
 Where do you get those numbers? asked Christie.
>From  the International Committee of Auschwitz, as published in The Anthology of Auschwitz, replied Faurisson.
The Dering trial is very important, he continued. Day after day, they eliminated names [of alleged victims]. On  reaching five, "they discovered that [even] those operations had not been done without anesthesia, but with a kind of anesthesia that was [
ew] at that time. We call that rachis anesthesia which is in the cerebral spine. It is a partial anesthesia."
And where does this information come from? asked Christie [defence counsel for Zundel].
>From  Auschwitz in England, said Faurisson.
The jury awarded Dering one halfpenny, but the judge ordered him to pay for the trial nevertheless. Dering said, My honour is saved, but financially I am ruined." Soon after, he died of cancer.
Leon Uris's dirty work was not yet complete. He then wrote a play about the trial called Queen's Bench 7, and invented a character of a son of Dering who attended the trial and became ashamed of his father's past. He  refrained from using the name of  
ering," however.
In summary, said Faurisson, it's quite clear that [at the beginning] everybody was ready to believe that in Auschwitz it as possible to do such a thing to 17,000 people."
Is what you have told us indicated anywhere in Suzman and Diamond? asked Christie.
No, said Faurisson. "They are veiling the fact that the accusation [of Uris] was absolutely terrible." Without the Auschwitz surgical register, he added, most of that accusation could have stuck forever.
 
 
[Page 309-310 From the The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


In article: <3ujod1$ntt@access5.digex.net>  mstein@access5.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:
>
>     I wasn't aware that Leon Uris was a Holocaust survivor.  Can you 
> document this?

Afaik he wasn't.

> 
>     Failing this, can you document which Holocaust survivor story Uris
> used as the basis of his claim?
> 

"The book [Exodus by Uris] had appeared in 1959 and had merely repeated the 
accusation against Dering made by the USSR prosecution at Nuremberg."

[cf The Final Solution (1968) by G.Reitlinger page 190)


>     If you cannot do either of these things, I fail to see how this story
> is germane to the above point.  A goodly number of people in general have
> made bizarre allegations (though sometimes bizarre allegations turn out to
> be true) and exaggerated shamelessly, but that's hardly confined to the
> Holocaust.  Fishermen and old soldiers have a certain reputation for
> this.... 

So it was the USSR prosecution at Nuremberg who made this bizarre 
allegation.....

Still, that's not as bizarre as the "vaporisation" claim. 
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:38:03 PDT 1995
Article: 24732 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: DACHAU TRIALS BLOT ON US JUSTICE THE CASE OF GUSTAV PERAT 2
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:57:15 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <117124987wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.57.15
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

Petrat's post-conviction plea was in the case file, a forlorn voice from the 
grave which I read with pangs of sorrow. His statement had been prepared in 
German had been submitted to the Military Governor of the US Zone of 
Occupation in English translation. Since no more than a handful of Americans 
have seen this or any other  German "war criminal's" side of the story, I 
reproduce it in its entirety, as follows:

I, Gustav PETRAT, born 12 November 1924 in Wirballen/Litauen [Lithuania], 
presently in Landsberg/Lech, make the following sworn statement after I have 
been informed that this statement is to be submitted to the Military 
Governor of the US Zone and that an false statement may be severely 
punished.

l. In May 1944, on account of my wound, I was transferred to the guard 
personnel of the Mauthausen concentration camp and served there as dog 
leader with the 16th Guard Company. My rank was Corporal (Rottenfuehrer) in 
the Armed (Waffen) SS.

[paragraphs 2-4 already posted] 


5. On 9 May 1945 I was taken to the Moosburg internment camp with about 80 
other prisoners. On 7 September 1945 I had my second interrogation, in 
Moosburg, at which they asked me the same questions they asked in the 
Tittling camp. There too, I received blows from a whip. This consisted of a 
wooden handle about 30 cm  long to which leather straps had been fastened. 
Since I had to answer the questions in the negative, they told me that there 
were other ways and means to force me to tell the truth. Then the 
interrogator left the room for a few minutes, and returned with a second 
interrogator. Since I had to reply to this man's questions in the negative 
also, because I did not know of any killing, he struck me with his fists and 
threatened to "hang" and "shoot" me. After I stuck to my guns, I was taken 
back to my quarters.
On 10 February 1946 I was transferred to the Dachau internment camp.

6. There I was interrogated two times At the interrogation on 21 June 1946 
they read statements to me that said that I had shot eight prisoners in the 
Mauthausen concentration camp. I was to sign this, but I vigorously refused 
because I never shot a prisoner After repeated requests to sign, I was 
struck with fists and kicked with feet. They put a paper in front of me to 
sign in which it said that l had never been beaten by American interrogators 
and soldiers. I refused, and only after repeated blows, with the threat that 
I would never leave the room alive until I had signed, and that they would 
know how to break me down my obstinacy, did I put my name to it. I had never 
had anything to do with the court in my life and I was afraid that they 
would make my life even more difficult.

7. In  January 1947 the so-called "line-ups" commenced  in Dachau Special 
Camp. I was confronted with prisoners three  times, yet not one accused me 
of the least thing. The man in charge of the line-up, Mr. ENTRESS, told the 
prisoners that I was said to have shot many and beaten them to death, where 
at only a burst of laugher arose. At that time I was 22 years old. When I 
was 19.5  I came to Mauthausen as 
dog-leader. A former prominent prisoner, Dr. SANNER, asserted he did not 
know me, but if a dog-leader had beaten prisoners to death or shot them that 
would certainly have become known in the camp. Many other former long-term 
prisoners  joined in this exonerating testimony

8. At mid-July 1947 I and my seven co-accused were presented for the first 
time to our official defense lawyer, Major William A.OATES. To his question 
whether I knew what I was accused of, and by whom, I could only reply that I 
was not conscious of any guilt and also had never counted on being brought  
to trial, since I had never mistreated or killed anyone.
Major OATES  told me that he too, knew nothing, that he could not get a 
glimpse of the incrirninating papers of the proseation, and therefore he 
would have to go by my statements, the general charge sheet, and the 
testimony of the prosecution witnesses at the trial.
Since only the prosecution had access to the records, my lawyer did not see 
them, and so naturally it was very difficult for him to prepare a defense. 
Major OATES promised to do everything he could. Also I gave him the names of 
lhe witnesses who were important for me, and who themselves were interned in 
Dachau.

What happened next? Well, it gets much much worse......



Perats statement is cited on Pages 258 to 263 in Innocent at Dachau by 
Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.

PS more to follow.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:38:05 PDT 1995
Article: 24733 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: GERMAN DECEPTION OR CREATIVE WRITING?
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:59:50 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <47631473wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.59.50
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

Two more trains, carrying 5,000 people again left for Auschwitz, where the 
same mystery was repeated. Two thousand were selected for the labour 
commandos; the rest were admitted to quarantine. They are clearly indicated 
in the Birkenau employment list of May 11th 1944. 1,452 Theresienstadt Jews 
were still on the Quarantine Section, IIb, but 1,575 were described as in 
readiness for transport [Vorbereitung zum Transport] and this in the 
officialese of Auschwitz, had only one meaning, which was waiting for the 
gas chamber. 

[The Final Solution (1968) by G.Reitlinger p183]

Look through any holocaust book and you will find numerous examples of the 
Germans using camouflage terms or codewords, getting the Jews to send off 
fake postcards, showerheads to disguise a gas chamber, gas chambers 
described on plans of Crematoria as Lichenkeller [morgue] and so on..... 

Try going through Reitlingers book and counting the examples of deliberate 
German deception.    

You will be amazed.

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:38:07 PDT 1995
Article: 24734 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: WHY DID KRAMER REMAIN BEHIND?
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:54:59 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <266963107wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 11.54.59
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7


The first person I [Sgt Norman Turgel of 53 Field Security Section, 
Intelligence Corps] arrested was Josef Kramer, the Camp Commandant, known as 
the Beast of Belsen. On the day our unit arrived, I locked Kramer in a huge 
meat refridgerator set at a low temperature, which the germans had been 
using for their own food supplies. I put 2 guards on him. he was in there 
for 24 hours before we took him out.
Then I interrogated him and made out the arrest warrant.
When I arrested him I said in German: I'm a Jew. He said: 'That's 
impossible. There are no Jews in the Army. We are killing them all.' I said: 
'There are thousands of  them in the British Army and the American Army -all 
freedom-loving people.' But he was still adamant.
I was very proud of being a Jew who arrested one of the most notorious 
gangsters in Nazi Germany .Maybe it was Fate that a Jew should arrest one of 
the war's worst concentration camp guards. It was a remarkable moment, but 
first and foremost I was doing my duty as a soldier, a British soldier, and 
these were evil men and women who had to be brought to justice.
Kramer was unshaven and very well-fed. He had a faraway look, like a 
frightened animal that's just been cornered. When I said: 'Look at these 
people . . .' he shrugged his shoulders and said: 'We had no medical 
supplies, and not enough food foor ourselves.' I said: 'Look at you! You 
look as if you ate enough for three people.' He kept mumbling to himself: 'I 
only acted on orders from my superiors. But he was the camp commandant!
He was a typical bulldog. He was like a robot, and he showed no feeling, no 
remorse at all. When he was the commandant at Auschwitz he was well known as 
a murderer and would think nothing of killing up to a hundred people a day 
himself. This is what I heard from other people I interrogated, there were 
lampshades which he had made in Auschwitz from Human skin, and in the 
kitchens we found bags of ground glass which was used to doctor the inmates 
soup.

[From: I light a candle Gena Turgel London 1987 page 106-7]

Question: 1 

What sort of interrogation do you think Kramer would have had?

Question 2:

Why did Kramer remain behind?





Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:38:09 PDT 1995
Article: 24735 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: JEWS ARRIVE SICK- JEWS TREATED- JEWS GASSED
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:02:28 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <621833145wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 12.02.28
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In spite of an adverse medical report, the 2,800 disposable Jews reached 
Auschwitz on July 8th and July 11th [1943]. Of 1,500 Jews in the first 
train, more than half the men and four-fifths of the women were found unfit 
for work on account of serious debilitation, phlegmons, hernia and hunger 
oedema. They were nevertheless spared the selection for the gas chambers and 
given light duties or sent to the Revier and the hospital, whence they 
graduated to the gas chamber in the end.

[ Reitlinger. the Final Solution (1968) page 315]


The Germans deport Jews. 

They arrive sick. 

They are given light dutes, sent to the Revier and the Hospital. 

Later, they are gassed.



Still, its just another case of Nazi irrationality.



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 30 23:38:11 PDT 1995
Article: 24736 of alt.revisionism
Path: news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!stumpy.demon.co.uk!jeff
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Cremation rate of 4,400 daily at Birkenau LUDICROUS says EXPERT
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:33:59 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <875291222wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: 
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Jul 28, 1995 12.33.59
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

The following extract is just part of the testimony at the Zundel trial of 
Ivan Lagace, a funeral director and crematorium manager and operator from 
Calgary, Alberta. Lagace has disposed of more than 10,000 bodies since 1976, 
and cremated more than 1000 since 1984. He has handled victims of fire, 
accident, and disease, and has seen every stage of bodily composition.

He was accorded EXPERT status at the Zundel trial.

Lagace next explained some calculations he had made after studying the plans 
for the 46 retorts at Birkenau.(Auschwitz II)
Christie [defence counsel for Zundel] asked him how these compared to the 
plans for his own crematorium.
Well, said Lagace, When I first looked at these [Birkenau plans], I was 
amazed." The specifications were almost identical to his own retort, 
including the unusually high 45-foot stack. Based on the afterburner design, 
he added, it is obvious they were concerned with environmental effects. 
There would be no smoke and no odor."
Lagace estimated that the 46 retorts at Birkenau could handle about 184 
bodies daily, or four apiece.
But, asked Christie, what about Raul Hilberg's estimate of 4,400 cremations 
per day at Birkenau?
Well," said Lagace, that's preposterous, in my eyes. It's beyond the realm 
of reality."
Christie asked if operating 24 hours a day would raise the output.
Just the opposite, insisted Lagace, it would shorten the lifespan of the 
refractory" and create costly delays.
Christie read to Lagace from Hilberg's account of a period in 1944 when 
about 10,000 Jews a day were allegedly being gassed at Birkenau, and asked 
again if the 46 retorts could have cremated 4,400 of the victims daily.
Lagace: It would be ludicrous to say something like that.

[Page 239 From the The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is neccessary that at least 
once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)                                  


---------------------------------------------------------------------------




Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.