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From: mstein@veritas.nizkor.org (Michael Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Matt has a lot to offer?
Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:58:34 GMT
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <56fj3q$tm@viper.txdirect.net>
References: <560b1o$2l3@atlas.uniserve.com> <19961109013300.UAA05888@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: veritas.nizkor.org

In article <19961109013300.UAA05888@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
  wrote:
>In article <560b1o$2l3@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) writes:
>>I don't suppose it has ever occurred to you that such polarization
>>could be ameliorated by the occasional retraction and apology,
>>Ehrlich.  Your blatant dishonesty certainly doesn't draw me inward.
>>But if you want to "fester" in your dishonesty, be my guest.
>
>I am a bit puzzled by this. Are you implying that if I had more
>retractions and apologies you would have been _kinder_?

    Speaking for myself, in a word: yes.

>I doubt it.  Your
>constant accusations of *dishonesty* don't exactly give a warm feeling all
>over about you, either.

   One of the tests I use to separate errors from lies is the willingness
of the person to step up to the plate and admit to being mistaken.  People
of good will, in my experience, are far more likely to acknowledge when
they are wrong.  People who are being dishonest, even if the dishonesty is
subconscious (i.e., they are also lying to themselves in a way) are far
more likely to maintain silence when their false statements are exposed. 
And I know that I am far from the only person who feels this way.


>>>But thanks for laying some cards out so we could talk this over.  These
>>>are the kind of constructive exchanges I originally envisioned for this
>>>board.
>>
>>Perhaps you will also be kind enough to enlighten us as to how you
>>reconcile your vision for this board with the troll's destructive
>>exchanges - to which you have repeatedly given your blessing and full
>>support in the past.
>
>OK, I am well aware that this is the $64,000 question.  I don't agree with
>all of Matt's rhetoric, nor do I agree with his namecalling.  At the same
>time, I don't agree with it when it comes from Mark Van Alstine, Gord
>McFee, or Yale Edeiken, either.  The nature of the polarization on this
>board is such that when Matt has gotten into that mode, he uses
>anti-Jewish epithets.  But my experience is that the use of anti-Jewish
>epithets does not an anti-semite make, much less a dangerous person.

    No, threats indicate a potentially dangerous person.  And while Matt
has made a number of statements which sounded like threats but were (in my
judgement) trolls, there was one instance in which he crossed the line
here, and I have another report from a lurker about an incident which
occurred back in his Fidonet days which the lurker took as a credible
threat of violence.

    Even if he didn't mean it, Matt's crazy writing makes the threat more
credible - which has the effect of stifling speech.  The lurker I
mentioned said he left the conference due to fear about what Matt might
do. 


>_Especially_ in the context of this board, where more energy seems to be
>expended on trolling each other than anything else.
>
>Now I have corresponded with Matt about this.  He knows I deplore this
>language.  But he is going to say what he wants to say.  I think it is
>very significant that never in any e-mail I have exchanged with him has he
>ever expressed privately the kinds of expressions or even sentiments that
>he ostentatiously throws into the teeth of those who endlessly revile and
>harrass them.  Something to think about.
>
>The Matt Giwer I know is an extremely bright man, with great energy,
>perception and humanity.

    Ted Bundy was also highly intelligent, and it is reported that he
could be charming when he wanted to be.

    But if Matt is so damn bright and perceptive, why does he make errors
of reading comprehension that would have embarrassed me in the second
grade?

    Either he is showing you something he deliberately conceals in public,
or he is getting someone else to write his emails to you, or your
percepetion of perceptivity is rather unperceptive.


>He has a lot to offer, and it is a pity that so few can realize this.

    Well, I don't see it, but let's say for the sake of argument you're
right.  Matt has a lot to offer?  So does a miser. Wouldn't you agree that
the important thing is not whether he _has_ a lot to offer, but what he
actually _does_ offer?  Aside from entertainment, what precisely do you
think Matt actually offers which is of any value?


>Whatever the lengths of his intemperance or faults of expression

    Forget his intemperance and faults of expression.  I can deal with
those.  Let's talk about his faults of scholarship.  Matt demands
references but fails to back up most of his claims.  Let's talk about his
faults of honesty. I don't use the word "liar" promiscuously, but Matt is
a liar.


>he is my friend, and I do not turn on my friends, or desert
>them in an hour of need.

    You must be very fortunate never to have been in the situation (as I
have been) when two friends undergo a messy breakup.  What do you do if
you must choose between friends?

    When Matt is posting, truth is in an hour of need.  Or are you no
friend of truth?

    Posted/emailed.
--

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