The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/nyms/cook/1996/cook.0896



From cook@dowco.com Thu Aug  8 08:59:40 PDT 1996
Article: 50364 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 07:28:13 GMT
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In article <4u805u$kt9@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 4 Aug 1996 11:48:52 GMT, an321@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Angus)
> wrote:
> 
> 
> >She, or someone, has previously posted the cost per immigrant to goverment
> >of our intake system, plus all support in their early years, including ESL,
> >retraining, etc, stands at aprox $50,000.
> 
> 
> Does every single immigrant needs ESL, retraining and other kinds of
> support?

Not only do we provide ESL to many, if not most immigrants, we have to
provide it to a majority of their children.  Even those born in Canada.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Sat Aug 10 14:07:50 PDT 1996
Article: 50518 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
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Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 06:58:06 GMT
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In article <4u0500$s1o@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 3 Aug 1996 03:40:59 GMT, ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon)
> wrote:
> 
> 
> >(Karen):  Not true, Mr Yau..... only citizens and PERMANENT RESIDENTS of
> >Canada have 'mobility rights'.  Until an immigrant has achieved the 
> >necessary time in Canada (full time), he is not a permanent resident and
> >as such does not have the protection of the constituiton on 'mobility'.
> 
> This is obviously not true. Once a prospective immigrant arrives
> Canada and completed all the required formalities (ie immigration and
> custom cleareance) he will immediately becomes permanent resident (PR)
> or "landed immigrant". As such, he enjoys the mobility rights
> guranteed by the Chater. Of course, to maintain the status of PR, he
> have to abide by the residency requirement as stated in the statue
> book.
> 
> >                                                       
> >Any immigrant can be required to settle wherever the receiving country
> >determines he will settle.  Canada can also determine a period of time 
> >before any immigrant to any province is entitled to receive 'publicly
> >provided social services'..... as did B.C. in limiting migrants to their
> >province who were looking to go onto welfare.
> 
> Not so in Canada. From a political perspective, it is unwise to set
> such limitation as this is in direct contradiction with the principle
> of what a free and democratic country ought should be. Even from a
> legal point of view, setting such limitation could be
> unconstitutional.

Which is the reason we should limiting the number of immigrants.  Since we
cannot control their mobility, our only control is to limit their numbers
to avoid situations like Vancouver and Toronto etc.  You obviously don't
see it as a problem, I do.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Wed Aug 14 11:07:15 PDT 1996
Article: 50787 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 01:23:00 GMT
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In article <4unds3$c9@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Aug 1996 06:58:06 GMT, cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> 
> 
> >Which is the reason we should limiting the number of immigrants.  Since we
> >cannot control their mobility, our only control is to limit their numbers
> >to avoid situations like Vancouver and Toronto etc.  You obviously don't
> >see it as a problem, I do.
> 
> What situations? It looks you have some problems with Asians. 
> 
What situation!! Vancouver is about to become a chinese city without even
the slightest input of the residents.  That represents a huge cultural
change that is unacceptable.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Wed Aug 14 11:07:18 PDT 1996
Article: 50804 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Screening of immigrants....
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 07:46:23 GMT
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In article <4uqe16$fko@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 12 Aug 1996 01:52:15 GMT, ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon)
> wrote:
> 
> >No, 'Mark Prince' - you use the word racist at the drop of a hat; you
> >seem to think it is an effective way to keep Canadians from challenging
> >their present uncontrolled, tax-burdening, society-wrecking immigration
> >policy.  
> 
> Uncontrolled immigration policy? Is this the reality? What
> justification for you to claim the present policy is tax-burdening and
> society wrecking?  
> 
> >(from TIME magazine, November 20,1995.... from the major poll of Canadians
> >taken after the referendum):
> 
> No matter how many times you post the Times Survey, the simple fact is
> the survey is not authoritative.

How the hell do you know?  The fact that its findings have been duplicated
in other polls speaks for itself.
> 
> >POLL RESULTS:
> 
> >Q: Would you like to see more, less or the same level of immigration to
> >   Canada?
> 
> >   More   8%      Less   57%      Same    33%
> 
> 
> These are raw data and we need more information to interprete. In
> short, 57% does not equate to drastic cut.
> 
> >Q: Do you agree that too many immigrants coming into this country are not
> >   adopting Canadian values?
> 
> >   Strongly agree     51 %
> >   Somewhat agree     27 %
> >   Somewhat disagree  12 %
> >   Strongly disagree   6 %
> 
> What is Canadian value? Is it equal to WASP value? If not, what is it?
> If it is, how just to claim our values are the same as WASP. Different
> Canadians could have different idea about what Canadian is. As such,
> the question is subject to open interpretation. 

Thats why the sample is a large one.
> 
> Furthermore, the sample size is about 2,000. How representative is it?

Sufficiently large that similarly sized national polls boast errors of
<2%,  19 of 20 times etc. 
> 
> >Discontent showed itself first in the criticisms about multiculturalism
> >made to the Spicer Commission of 1991, followed by a steadily growing 
> >number of ever-more critical comments on hotline radio shows and letters
> >to the editor.                                 
> 
> How just are those criticisms? Would those criticisms based on myths
> and incorrect info about multiculturalism?

I keep telling you Chow is full of shit; glad to see you finally agree.
> 
> >For a time, the 'Toronto Sun' was able to run daily exposes of refugee and
> >immigration scams and scandals leaked to it by disaffected departmental 
> >officials.  And, whether the police were to blame or ethnic communities were,
> >for failing to discipline their members, there was a constant series of
> >violent incidents - over drugs, gang wars, 'house-knappings' - involving 
> >black and, to a lesser extent, Vietnamese and Chinese newcomers.
> 
> Yes, there are problems and abuses. We sure need some fine-tuning in
> our immigration policy. However, any sensible people will find your
> arguments distasteful as you lead people to think our crimes/social
> problems are closely related to immigrants. Do you dare to say no
> white people invloved in those crimes? Why we have to focus on
> race/ethnicity? Aren't we all human beings? Even in cases invloved
> ethnic minorities, many of them are Canadians, whether by birth or
> naturalisation. Do you have any idea why they commit offences?

Who cares the fact remains they committ them.
> 
> In short, crime is a social problem regardless of race/ethnicity. Any
> attempt to rationalize it as an ethnic/immigrant problem or to try to
> lay blame on immigrants/ethnic minorities for those problems is
> unfair, discrimnatory and wrong. 

However the claims are generally accurate. 
> 
> 
>  "The inherent virtue of Socialism   | Cheers!
>   is the equal sharing of miseries"  | Jerome Yau
>          --- Sir Winston Churchill   | jyau@helix.net

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Mon Aug 19 18:18:45 PDT 1996
Article: 51104 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 16:35:52 GMT
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In article
, Patrick
Chung  wrote:

> > On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 01:23:00 GMT, cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> > 
> > >What situation!! Vancouver is about to become a chinese city without even
> > >the slightest input of the residents.  That represents a huge cultural
> > >change that is unacceptable.
>       So what are the inputs of the Chinese residents? They like what 
> property they own there! 
> Unacceptable to who? Descendants of Captain Cook? Captain Cook tried to
> assimulate natives in the South Pacific to his culture and look what 
> happened to him. Are you Cook related to Captain Cook? What ethnic background
> are you Cook?
>      I am sure many Chinese are assimulating into your ideal culture, Cook
> and they are acquiring the bad habits which come with it, so you have to set
> a good role model to us Chinese Canadians and not a bad role model, which 
> you promote.
> 
>
"Bad habits"  you fucking asshole, if you don't like what CANADIANS, not
chinese have built, get out.  And don't tell me you bloody ancestors laid
a few railway ties, no one cares.

In other words, "fuck the wishes of the stupid white folk, we're comming
anyway."   No one has the right or mandate to change an existing society
without input from that society.  When did the people of greater Vancouver
have an opportunity to discuss the concept of a million new chinese
immigrants flooding our city.  Politicians an citizens alike are
condemning the current densities in the lower mainland yet do nothing to
stem the flow of immigrants who add nothing but congestion and tension to
our community.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 20 11:33:11 PDT 1996
Article: 51178 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: MOMENT of SILENCE for the MURDERED UNBORN CHILD
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:58:40 GMT
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In article
, Patrick
Chung  wrote:

> On 18 Aug 1996, jjohnson wrote:
> 
> > In article <4v2lrm$q25@news.inforamp.net>, dlj@inforamp.net (David
> > Lloyd-Jones) wrote:
> > 
> > > bg364@torfree.net (Yuri Kuchinsky) wrote:
> > > 
> > > >    5. The family of Mary and Joseph with Jesus as their only child
> > > >       is an excellent model for families today.       
>                      How about Bill and Hilary Clinton and Chelsea? :)
> 
> > > I mean c'mon, if Mary was so great at birth control would she have
> > > been with child in the first place?
>            She is called the "Virgin Mary". The birth of Jesus was a 
> miracle from the power of God.

Na, you've got it all wrong!  The whole thing is a hoax written by Jules
Verne, a distant relative of Jimmy Swaggerd.  They hatched it as a way of
extracting money from the poor soles of the world who can't figure up from
down.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 20 11:33:14 PDT 1996
Article: 51179 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: MOMENT of SILENCE for the MURDERED UNBORN CHILD
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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:09:16 GMT
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In article <4vbf45$1gh6@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>, sywlau@acs4.acs.ucalgary.ca
(Stephen Yiu Wah Lau) wrote:

> John Lauzon (bk469@torfree.net) wrote:
> : As far as my .sig is concerned, if it has religious connotations that's MY
> : business, Canada is still, so far, a Christian nation, it does not break
> 
> No... You are totally wrong.  Canada is a multicultural nation which
> allows freedom of religion.  It is in no way a Christian nation.

I think you mis-understand the term.
> 
> Being a predominantly Christian nation and being a Christian nation
> are two completely different things.  You'd better make sure you
> understand this before you really start offending others and making
> a jackass out of yourself.


 Canada is a christian nation in the sense of its societal concepts of
justice and community.  In no way does it imply that the church has any
business or rights in the affairs of state.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 20 11:33:15 PDT 1996
Article: 51181 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: " Canada's language chaos"
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In article <4u8034$kt9@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 3 Aug 1996 21:56:02 GMT, ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon)
> wrote:
> 
> 
> >(Karen):  Who said our neighbour to the south could not learn from anyone
> >else?  They're learning from our experience just what happens when a country
> >'celebrates the differences' instead of 'encourages the commonality'.
> >Why is it that our own leaders cannot see what is painfully obvious to 
> >other countries?
> 
> Unfortunately, your argument can't hold any water. In Canada, people
> are free to indentify and celebrate their cultures provided those
> practices do not contravene our law. 
> 
> Switzerland has 4 official languages and as far as I know, they don't
> have any problems.
> 
> What is obvious is the fact that intolerance is a major cause of many
> problems. 
> 
An what is equally obvious, is the fact that not a single nation or
society has been able to rid itself of the facts of human nature. 
Intolerance is as natural as any other human emotion.  All people of this
world preferr their own culture and race.  Canada's immigration laws which
has created huge groups of different cultures and races to  spring up
overnite has and will continue to cause increased friction and
intolerance.  Given this fact of life Canada is making matters worse by
continuing with its present immigration policies.  

Especially in view of recent statscan data which clearly indicates there
is no broad economic benefit with immigration.  Vancouver Sun,  page A10
Aug.13/96

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Wed Aug 21 10:46:26 PDT 1996
Article: 51228 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Screening of immigrants....
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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 02:54:02 GMT
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In article <4vclp8$agc@presence.lglobal.com>, mdf@presence.lglobal.com
(Matthew Francey) wrote:

> ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon) wrote:
> 
> >(Karen):  Well, now, seems some are taxed more fairly than others....
> 
> My god.  The KG bot has been given an upgrade.  In addition to flagrant
> copyright violations, it now appears that it can talk.  If only a single
> line.
> 
> >RESEARCH SHOWS REVENUE CANADA GIVES PREFERENCE TO VISIBLE MINORITIES
> 
> Gee.  No author, publisher, date, or any other details we can use to
> verify this story.  One might think this is the way the KG bot is
> "getting around" the copyright issue.  But of course, there is no
> evidence (yet) for that (serious) accusation, so lets just politely
> ask that whoever is maintaining the 'bot to ensure that in the future
> a complete reference is given to any material the 'bot feels the (frequent)
> need to plaigerize^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hquote.

(Jerry Collins - B C Report - Dec 1995)
This was at the bottom of the post.  Why did you delete it and clain there
was no author, publisher or date?  Are you really andrew chow? Your
tactics in debate are the same; alter the post and then try to discredit
the alteration.

Don't you think that an article of this nature would have been denied by
all concerned if i really was a fabrication? 

Deny deny deny is all you pro-immigrationists can manage.  Perhaps some
facts or articles with documentation from your discredited cabal is in
order.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Wed Aug 21 10:46:29 PDT 1996
Article: 51248 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: MOMENT of SILENCE for the MURDERED UNBORN CHILD
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In article
, Patrick
Chung  wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Cook wrote:


> > > > > 
> > >            She is called the "Virgin Mary". The birth of Jesus was a 
> > > miracle from the power of God.
> > 
> > Na, you've got it all wrong!  The whole thing is a hoax written by Jules
> > Verne, a distant relative of Jimmy Swaggerd.  They hatched it as a way of
> > extracting money from the poor soles of the world who can't figure up from
> > down.
>       Since when did Jules Verne, author of "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" 
> write anything about the Virgin Mary, birth of Jesus and God?
> Where did you hear Jules Verne was a distant relative of Jimmy Swaggard?
> My, My, My Cook, you are one poor lost soul!
>        What we need are more Robin Hoods instead of people like Jimmy 
> Swaggardand Jim Baker! Instead of taking from the rich and keeping it for 
> themselves, to give the money to the poor.
> 
You wonder why  I object to immigration.  Vancouver is full of immigrants
with not the slightest ability to understand the simplest of humour.  Not
a bloody clue.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Fri Aug 23 09:09:13 PDT 1996
Article: 51385 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
Sender: news@dowco.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:42:52 GMT
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In article <4vgo59$naa@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 05:46:16 GMT, cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> 
> >Let me make this simple for you Jerome,  Vancouver's public school
> >populations already exceed 50% ethnic chinese.  How long do you think it
> >will take for Vancouver to become a majority ethnically chinese city?
> 
> This is a clear record that Cook is incapble of sensible and rational
> thinking.
> 
What is irrational about my statement and question?  Do you disagree with
the statement that over 50% of the students in Vancouver are ethnic
chinese?  How long do you think it will take for Vancouver to become a
majority ethnically chinese city? 

> Despite the fact that those students are ethnic Chinese, many of them
> are Canadians or will become Canadians in the near future. 


> 
> Your problem with ethnicity is a clear evidence that you have some
> sort of racist thinking or you, indeed is a racist. 
> 
No, I'm just fed up with immigrants who don't show the slightest intension
becoming part of the mainstream culture.

IMO The question I posed is quite valid in view of the insular nature of
the ethnic chinese community in Vancouver.  An insular nature that has
endured for three and four generations in canada. Imagine, after three
generation some still don't speak english.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Fri Aug 23 09:09:15 PDT 1996
Article: 51389 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Canada - refugee dumping ground ?
Sender: news@dowco.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:01:58 GMT
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In article <4vi2ig$ia1@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 18 Aug 1996 21:50:52 GMT, ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon)
> wrote:
> 
> >(Karen):  This might be true if those we were importing had jobs to go to.
> >As it is, the immigrants have higher unemployment rates and take more
> >from welfare than do Canadians.  Just who are we importing here?  Those
> >who should be contributing and instead become the burden to an already
> >over-taxed, unemployed population?  
> 
> Do you have anything to back your claims? Even if some immigrants
> might have a higher unemployment rate, we must find out what are the
> real reasons. With respect to welfare, many studies have shown that
> immigrants, in general, are net contributors. 

Then why has B.C. had a decrease in the percapita GDP in a period of
unprecidented immigration?  Clearly immigrants as a whole are not "net
contributors".
---------
Vancover Sun Editorial Column, Aug 13, 1996 - Page A10

Weaker B.C. GDP  figures  show  B.C.'s  productivity has not kept up with
its  population.

The  feature   article on trends in province published in the July  issue 
of  the Canadian Economic Observer  shows the relative decline
accelerating.  While  per  capita GDP grew in all other regions between
1994 and 1995, it fell in B.C. to  $19,709,  as   measured in constant
1986 dollars. This places  us  far  behind Alberta's $26,713 and Ontario's
$22,251, and in position to be overtaken by Saskatchewan.  Despite all the
political uncertainty about separation, even Quebec recorded an increase
in per capita output to $18,600.

Constant Dollars  1994  1995

CANADA    20,441.36  20,647.77
ATLANTIC 15,394.10   15,521.79
QUEBEC   18,395.22   18,599.26
ONTARIO  21,913.31   22,251.35
PRAIRIES 22,921.56   23,086.10

B.C.  19,861.54   19,709.77
---------

Perhaps we should take a closer look at the "astronauts"?

-- 
cook


From scy6312@ms7.hinet.net Mon Aug 26 09:19:13 PDT 1996
Article: 51578 of bc.general
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From: "(Tim) Chang Yung Shih" 
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:13:47 +0800
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Cook wrote:
> 
> In article <4vfqb6$bpn@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 01:23:24 -0400, Jim Vassallo
> >  wrote:
> >
> > >I wish all kids were like that!:) I really don't think it matters if
> you're black,
> > >white, asian or other as long as YOU ARE CANADIAN! My greatest fear is
> that because
> > >Canada is sooooo tolerant (they encourage others to keep their culture
> as opposed to
> > >adopting a Canadian identity) that we will became so divided we will
> rip eachother
> > >apart. Hopefully some sort of "Canadiana" will arise and conquer.
> >
> > Fair enough. Could you please elaborate what is meant by "Canadian
> > Identity"? Canadian culture lies in its diversity. The present policy
> > does not encourage ethnic diversity per se but rather it is a policy
> > of unity in diversity. People can keep their cultures so long as those
> > cultures and practices do not violate the rights of other people and
> > our laws. In other words, practices like bigamy and female
> > circumcision are not permitted. On the other hand, immigrants are
> > required to respect our core values, ie: equality, rule of law,
> > freedom and democracy etc.
> >
> >
> We don't need immigrants who view their participation in the community on
> a legal ethical basis alone.  We need people who become part of the
> community, as Canadians.  Chinese more than any other immigrant group
> cling to their own insular culture.  Many neighborhood  in Vancouver have
> become like ghost towns, with as many as half the houses for all intent,
> unoccupied.  There are people living in them, but they do not in any way
> contribute to their immediate neighborhood.  It is not uncommon to see 2nd
> and 3rd generation of chinese living in western Canada that still  don't
> speak a word English.  This does not happen with any other cultural group.
> 
> --
> cook


Hi, Cook

After reading your messages, I think you should get out the country and
see how the rest of world is doing now.  I am living in Taipei, Taiwan
and I have a house in Victoria, I usually will take a trip to there once
a while because I like fresh air and clean water there.  In Taipei, my
neighbors are from many countries such as Canada, United States and some
European countries as well.  They have their own ways of living, they
like to eat Chinese foods and I like to eat weatern foods sometimes.
Their houses sometimes are empty too.  But it does not mean they are not
contribute to their living communities.  We both respect each other's
culture and understand we both have different ways of living.

The world has changed that we are entitle to manage the lands but we do
not really own them.  Canadians have managed the lands so well that many
people likes to gp there and enjoy the clean environment there. 

Do you know if these immigrants do not fly between Asia and Canada so
frequently, Canadian Pcific Airline might shut down because there are
not enough passingers.  These routes have become the most profitable in
their daily opearation, you can check with Canadian Pacific Airline to
find out.  Therefore, I think they do contribute to the Communities
indirectly, otherwise, many people might be out of jobs now.  Welcome to
write me back.


                                          Tim (from Taiwan)


From cook@dowco.com Mon Aug 26 09:19:16 PDT 1996
Article: 51601 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Canada - refugee dumping ground ?
Sender: news@dowco.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:57:50 GMT
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In article <4vqb8b$7fj@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:01:58 GMT, cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> 
> >Then why has B.C. had a decrease in the percapita GDP in a period of
> >unprecidented immigration?  Clearly immigrants as a whole are not "net
> >contributors".
> >---------
> >Vancover Sun Editorial Column, Aug 13, 1996 - Page A10
> 
> >Weaker B.C. GDP  figures  show  B.C.'s  productivity has not kept up with
> >its  population.
> 
> I suggest you to learn some basic economics before making this sort of
> ill-considered comment.

On what basis do you make this statement?   Your statements in other posts
on the subject, shows you do not even distinguish the difference between
percapita GDP and GDP.
> 
> Do you know what is GDP? Do you know changes in GDP are usually due to
> a wide array of factors? 

Wow!!

> 
> There is no doubt BC's population is rising. Such an increase is due
> to immigrants from foreign nations as well as intra-provincial
> migration. On the other hand, factors like trade sanctions, quotas,
> depressions could have undesirable effects on GDP. As such, it is
> simply wrong to conclude the current decline is due to immigration. 
> 

The figures make it very clear, that the immigrants, wherever they come
from, are not pulling their weight.  The new immigrants are less
productive that the existing populous.  Otherwise the percapita GDP would
remain the same or increase.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Mon Aug 26 09:19:17 PDT 1996
Article: 51602 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
Sender: news@dowco.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:03:41 GMT
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In article <4vps2f$7ku@wolfe.wimsey.com>, balden@wimsey.com wrote:

> jyau@helix.net (Jerome Yau) wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, 18 Aug 1996 05:46:16 GMT, cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> 
> >>Let me make this simple for you Jerome,  Vancouver's public school
> >>populations already exceed 50% ethnic chinese.  How long do you think it
> >>will take for Vancouver to become a majority ethnically chinese city?
> 
> >This is a clear record that Cook is incapble of sensible and rational
> >thinking.
> 
> >Despite the fact that those students are ethnic Chinese, many of them
> >are Canadians or will become Canadians in the near future. 
> 
> >Your problem with ethnicity is a clear evidence that you have some
> >sort of racist thinking or you, indeed is a racist. 
> 
> The definitive establishment of a culture as permanent requires policy,
> not personal initiative. We'll know that Chinese is a permanent part of
> Vancouver culture when a Chinese school system is established and
> becomes widely used, at least in the Chinese community.
"drivel snipped"

The subject area is Vancouver and the question relates to the number of
"ethnic chinese" not their culture.

Again you prove you cannot or will not read.  Please address the original
questions?

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Mon Aug 26 09:19:17 PDT 1996
Article: 51603 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
Sender: news@dowco.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:06:27 GMT
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In article <4vqd8g$2nj@zot.io.org>, pengt@zot.io.org (Tom Peng) wrote:

> cook@dowco.com wrote:
> > We don't need immigrants who view their participation in the community on
> > a legal ethical basis alone.  We need people who become part of the
> > community, as Canadians.  Chinese more than any other immigrant group
> > cling to their own insular culture.  Many neighborhood  in Vancouver have
> > become like ghost towns, with as many as half the houses for all intent,
> > unoccupied.  There are people living in them, but they do not in any way
> > contribute to their immediate neighborhood.  It is not uncommon to see 2nd
> > and 3rd generation of chinese living in western Canada that still  don't
> > speak a word English.  This does not happen with any other cultural group.
> 
> Now, this is very difficult to believe.

Agreed.  But true.
> 
> 2nd and 3rd generations of Chinese Canadians don't speak English?
> 
> Do they not attend schools in their early years?

Go figure?  Model citizens, right?

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 27 14:48:04 PDT 1996
Article: 51665 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,soc.culture.canada,can.politics
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Canada - refugee dumping ground ?
Sender: news@dowco.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 03:11:34 GMT
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In article <4vsh9d$bum@presence.lglobal.com>, mdf@presence.lglobal.com
(Matthew Francey) wrote:

> cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> >In article <4vqb8b$7fj@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:
> 
> >> I suggest you to learn some basic economics before making this sort of
> >> ill-considered comment.
> >
> >On what basis do you make this statement?
> 
> Perhaps your conclusions are unsupportable by the evidence you offer?

You don't have to like the obvious conclusion.
> 
> >The figures make it very clear, [...]
> 
> Lets fetch those "figures":
> 
> >>Vancover Sun Editorial Column, Aug 13, 1996 - Page A10
> 
> Could someone explain why the Vancouver Sun is a common source of
> "information" for the KG-bot and related?
> 
> >>Weaker B.C. GDP  figures  show  B.C.'s  productivity has not kept up with
> >>its  population.
> 
> Since no population figures are given, this statement has little support here.

Francey the new master of "red herrings"
> 
> >>The  feature   article on trends in province published in the July  issue 
> >>of  the Canadian Economic Observer  shows the relative decline
> >>accelerating.
> 
> Maybe the population figures are given here?  Who knows.
> 
> >>               While  per  capita GDP grew in all other regions between
> >>1994 and 1995, it fell in B.C. to  $19,709,  as   measured in constant
> >>1986 dollars. This places  us  far  behind Alberta's $26,713 and Ontario's
> >>$22,251, and in position to be overtaken by Saskatchewan.
> 
> Giggle.  Even a quick glance at the table (below) reveals that the ranking
> didn't change from one year to the next.  Yet reading the above, you
> get the impression it did, and that oh-poor BC is in some kind of GDP/person
> tailspin.  All because (as was claimed) the population is increasing.
> 
> >>                                                            Despite all the
> >>political uncertainty about separation, even Quebec recorded an increase
> >>in per capita output to $18,600.
> 
> Which only goes to show just how much horse-hooey most political and
> economic analyses really are.
> 
> >>Constant Dollars  1994  1995
> >>
> >>CANADA    20,441.36  20,647.77
> >>ATLANTIC 15,394.10   15,521.79
> >>QUEBEC   18,395.22   18,599.26
> >>ONTARIO  21,913.31   22,251.35
> >>PRAIRIES 22,921.56   23,086.10
> >>
> >>B.C.  19,861.54   19,709.77
> 
> Thats it?  A "decline" of one hundred and fifty GDP dollars per person?
> Yet (going back to the posting I am responding to) you conclude:
> 
> >  [...]                     that the immigrants, wherever they come
> >from, are not pulling their weight.  The new immigrants are less
> >productive that the existing populous.  Otherwise the percapita GDP would
> >remain the same or increase.
> 
> a. "whereever they came from"?  So you wish not to deconvolve the effects
>    of migration within the country to what everyone else calls "immigration"?
>    Which I could understand, since it may well be impossible.  But it is
>    a little more honest to at least acknowledge this, eh?

BC's immigration includes inter-provincial migration, to pretend the
percapita GDP drop is entirely due to foreign immigration would not be
correct.  However it would be something Chow or Lau would try to obscure
if it suited their argument.
> 
> b. "new immigrants are less productive"?  Immigrants as defined by anyone
>    who crosses the border into BC, I suppose.   Anyways, no matter how you
>    define it, the numbers you quote can not prove this.
How so?   Larger population; lower percapita GDP, therefore the addition
is less productive.  I don't give reasons just point out the effect.

> 
> c. "would remain the same"?  But, but, by your own figures, the per
>    capita GDP seems to me (in as much as they can be compared) to have
>    *stayed the same*.

While everyone else increased.  Besides Chow et al keep preaching the
tremendous economic benefits with immigration.  Where are the benefits in
a reduced percapita GDP?

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 27 14:48:09 PDT 1996
Article: 51690 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,soc.culture.canada
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: More immigrants - weaker B.C....
Sender: news@dowco.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 07:09:06 GMT
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In article <4vqb39$7fj@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 24 Aug 1996 02:51:07 GMT, ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon)
> wrote:
> 
> >Are immigrants 'helping the country' or crippling it?  Let's look at the 
> >situation in B.C. - one of the highest immigrant-receiving provinces in the
> >country (with Ontario) - and look at ITS 'gross domestic product' per capita
> >output!......
> >                               ________________
> 
> For the record, there is a considerable number of people moving to BC
> from other provinces because BC's economy is still on the best in the
> country.

Would you mind putting some data support for that claim.  The percapita
GDP figures appear to refute your claim.

> 
> >(Vancouver Sun - editorial - August 13, 1996):

> >                GDP PER CAPITA (in constant dollars)
> 
> >                           1994           1995
> 
> >CANADA                $ 20,441.36     $ 20,647.77
> >Atlantic                15,394.10       15,521.79
> >Quebec                  18,395.22       18,599.26
> >Ontario                 21,913.31       22,251.35
> >Prairies                22,921.56       23,086.10
> >B.C.                    19,861.54       19,709.77
> >_______________________________________________________________________

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 27 14:48:10 PDT 1996
Article: 51691 of bc.general
Newsgroups: bc.general,can.general,ont.general,soc.culture.canada,tor.general,van.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: More immigrants - weaker B.C....
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 07:11:51 GMT
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In article <4vsq9h$48u@impact.cs.ubc.ca>, davem@cs.ubc.ca (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

> knelson@idirect.com (K. Nelson) writes:
> >>I believe your reply says it all.  When you cannot refute the statistics or 
> >the facts, you all resort to name calling or tactics designed to stifle free 
> >speech.  This again supports my belief that the politically correct people 
> >here are not interested in democracy or free speech, but only in enforcing 
> >their own left wing views.    
> 
> But Karen does not argue with "statistics and facts".  She does post
> statistics, but then draws conclusions from them that are not supported by
> the statistics, and speaks as if they were "facts".  How is it suppressing
> free speech to point out that her opinions are nothing more than opinions?
> 
>         Dave

Ok Dave, what do you think the figure show?  What conclusions do you draw?

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 27 14:48:11 PDT 1996
Article: 51695 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: We do want many more immigrants ??
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 07:25:34 GMT
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In article <4vss19$um@scipio.cyberstore.ca>, dedward@news.cyberstore.ca ()
wrote:

> : We don't need immigrants who view their participation in the community on
> : a legal ethical basis alone.  We need people who become part of the
> : community, as Canadians.  Chinese more than any other immigrant group
> : cling to their own insular culture.  Many neighborhood  in Vancouver have
> : become like ghost towns, with as many as half the houses for all intent,
> : unoccupied.  There are people living in them, but they do not in any way
> : contribute to their immediate neighborhood.  It is not uncommon to see 2nd
> : and 3rd generation of chinese living in western Canada that still  don't
> : speak a word English.  This does not happen with any other cultural group.
> 
> Oh? What about the oh-so-many born-and-raised-in-Canada white, anglo-saxon 
> 4th generation Canadians who don't even know their own neighbors? Do they 
> contribute to their immediate neighborhood?  A neighborhood of Chinese 
> clings to itself. Cool! You mean the neighbors know each other? People
> all shop at the neighborhood store? THey get together for dinner now and then?
> Party together? Nifty. I wish I had a neighborhood like that.

The west side of Vancouver is very much like that.
> 
> 
> Do the neighbors of these Chinese people go talk to them? Associate with them?
> Welcome them to the neighborhood? It's usually customary to welcome
> new neighbors to your little island in life.....
> Do we condemn them from disassociating with us because we don't make the 
> effort in the first place?

I know of many people who have made the effort with no effect.  Their
chinese neighbors continued with their isolated lifestyle within the
neighborhood.  They are polite but do not mix and most don't allow their
children to mix.  From what I hear there are few exceptions.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Tue Aug 27 14:48:12 PDT 1996
Article: 51699 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,ont.general,bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: " Canada's language chaos"
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:02:30 GMT
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In article <4vqb48$7fj@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Aug 1996 12:22:40 GMT, cook@dowco.com (Cook) wrote:
> 
> >An what is equally obvious, is the fact that not a single nation or
> >society has been able to rid itself of the facts of human nature. 
> >Intolerance is as natural as any other human emotion.  All people of this
> >world preferr their own culture and race.  Canada's immigration laws which
> >has created huge groups of different cultures and races to  spring up
> >overnite has and will continue to cause increased friction and
> >intolerance.  Given this fact of life Canada is making matters worse by
> >continuing with its present immigration policies.
> 
> What a poor excuse! Your comment reflects what kind of person you are.
> In other words, it is reasonable to believe you are:
> 
> 1. Ultra-conservative;
> 2. Xenophobia;
> 3. Senseless;
> 4. Closed-minded and
> 5. Self-centred
> 
> The simple fact is harmony could be achieved if we put asides our
> biases, communicate, understand and respect each other.

Please provide an example of a nation where harmony has been achieved. 
Your previous examples have been laughable.
> 
> >Especially in view of recent statscan data which clearly indicates there
> >is no broad economic benefit with immigration.  Vancouver Sun,  page A10
> >Aug.13/96
> 
> Are you referring to the decline in BC's per capita GDP? If so, your
> argument could not be substained.
> 
Yes. Why?  Seems pretty clear to me.  The population increased and the
average productivity declined.  What cannot be "substained"??

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Wed Aug 28 01:19:36 PDT 1996
Article: 51730 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general,ont.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Screening of immigrants....
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 18:40:11 GMT
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In article <4vq787$5n4@bull.hkstar.net>, jmy@hkstar.com wrote:

> On 20 Aug 1996 03:26:06 GMT, ar231@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Karen Gordon)
> wrote:
> 
> >(Karen):  Well, now, seems some are taxed more fairly than others....
> 
> >                             _________________
> 
> >RESEARCH SHOWS REVENUE CANADA GIVES PREFERENCE TO VISIBLE MINORITIE
> 
> IMHO, the so-called report/research failed to provide any solid
> evidence to support the allegation. What we see is suspicion. 
> 
> With regards to global taxation and those HK/Taiwan immigrants who
> have gained Canadian Citizenship and choose to return to Asia to work,
> it is very important to distinguish whether those people are
> "residents" for taxation purposes. Citizens and residents are required
> to report their global income. However, if a person leaves the country
> and reside in a foreign nation, he could become a "non-resident" for
> taxation purposes. In other words, these non-residents are not
> required to report their global income to Revenue Canada. (This is my
> understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong)
> 

Let's speculate a little. Yau's "astronaut" leaves the house in Canada in
his wifes name. She has no "visible" income and may be eligible for
welfare.  Her kids attend our schools, gobble up health and welfare
services and generally increase costs to the other citizens of Canada. 
The family does not provide anywhere near their cost to the system in tax
revenue.

Oddly enough the province where this practice is reported to be the most
prevalent, has a declining percapita GDP.  Need I speculate further?

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Thu Aug 29 16:46:49 PDT 1996
Article: 51842 of bc.general
Newsgroups: can.general,bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: Illegal refugee gets heart transplant! ....
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:33:14 GMT
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In article , lcraver@vcn.bc.ca (Lyle Craver) wrote:

> In article <32215132.17988312@news2.jumppoint.com>,
> SeeMySig@jumppoint.com (Mark) wrote:
> >Don't forget, immigrants, in Karen-John's mind, are scum, are not
> >human... so of course, in IT's mind, the guy should be left to die.
> 
> OK - this particular individual had been deported and re-entered Canada 
> illegally. How would YOU have handled this situation and after you presumably 
> approve the transplant what do you do next?
> 
> In your opinion what DOES Canada owe those not here legally?


I don't believe a civilized country could refuse to treat this individual,
but Canada should make every effort to recover the cost of the treatment,
either from the individual or his government.  (Fat chance.)  Failing
that, we should persue those responsible for his illegal return to Canada.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Thu Aug 29 16:46:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51843 of bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: West Coast Express (Vancouver)
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:46:49 GMT
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In article <4vsbs2$aq6@ns2.ryerson.ca>, cal@cate.ryerson.ca (Calvin
Henry-Cotnam) wrote:

> Peter Rosa ("prosa@worldnet.att.net"@postoffice.worldnet.att.net) said...
> >
> >J. Chapman wrote:
> >> It is a very good question. The subsidy for the Vancouver Express is
> >> enormous. Even using the government's, shall we say, optimistic
> >> ridership estimates it will still be costing about $2000.00/year
> >> per rider. We are we paying people $2000.00 a year to make it
> >> easier to live 80Km from where they work (and then called it good
> >> for the environment, sheesh)?
> >> >
> >>  
> >I know nada about Vancouver, but the $2,000/yr. comment made me laugh.  I
> >ride Metro North's Harlem line each day (Golden's Bridge to Grand Central),
> >and if their costs are $2,000 per year they're making a nice profit off of
> >me - my monthly tickets come to $2,316 per year!
> 
> No they're not!  The $2000 per year is the subsidy OVER and ABOVE the
> ticket price.  In other words, if Metro North's Harlem line needed a
> subsidy of $2000 per year per rider, then the COST of running it would
> be the subsidy PLUS the ticket price, or $4316 per year.  I doubt its
> subsidy is that great, but there probably is some subsidy.
> 
Mayor Phillip Owen of Vancouver pointed out that the West Coast Express
subsidizes each rider approx. $40 per day or about $800 per month per
rider.  At that rate it would be cheaper to buy every rider, a brand new
Toyota every two years or buy 700 new transit busses for the lower
mainland.  700 new buses would go a long way to improving the service to
the point where people might begin to consider it a viable alternative to
the automobile.  As it stands, the WCE is only being kept in place to save
face for the economically illiterate NDP government.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Fri Aug 30 13:17:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51897 of bc.general
Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit,misc.transport.rail.americas,van.general,bc.general
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: West Coast Express (Vancouver)
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:03:44 GMT
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In article , jbart@zadall.com (John Bartol) wrote:

> In article ,
> Cook  wrote:
> >Mayor Phillip Owen of Vancouver pointed out that the West Coast Express
> >subsidizes each rider approx. $40 per day or about $800 per month per
> >rider.  At that rate it would be cheaper to buy every rider, a brand new
> >Toyota every two years or buy 700 new transit busses for the lower
> >mainland.  700 new buses would go a long way to improving the service to
> >the point where people might begin to consider it a viable alternative to
> >the automobile.  As it stands, the WCE is only being kept in place to save
> >face for the economically illiterate NDP government.
> 
> Not that this will diminish your argument *too* much, I dislike blanket
> statements like: this will buy 700 new transit buses. Over what period of
> time? How about drivers for the buses?  The comparison to buying Toyotas is
> much more accurate (or seems to be)
> 
Opps!  I believe the comment was based upon 2 years of subsidy of WCE. My
impression, was purchase only, however there was an anticipation that the
higher levels of service and frequency would result in higher than current
useage rates.

-- 
cook


From cook@dowco.com Fri Sep  6 08:51:01 PDT 1996
Article: 52516 of bc.general
Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit,van.general,bc.general,misc.transport.rail.americas
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From: cook@dowco.com (Cook)
Subject: Re: West Coast Express (Vancouver)
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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:49:39 GMT
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In article <50gah7$71i@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
ag414@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Colin R. Leech) wrote:

> John Bartol (jbart@zadall.com) writes:
> > In article ,
> > Cook  wrote:
> >>Mayor Phillip Owen of Vancouver pointed out that the West Coast Express
> >>subsidizes each rider approx. $40 per day or about $800 per month per
> >>rider.  At that rate it would be cheaper to buy every rider, a brand new
> >>Toyota every two years or buy 700 new transit busses for the lower
> >>mainland.  700 new buses would go a long way to improving the service to
> >>the point where people might begin to consider it a viable alternative to
> >>the automobile.  As it stands, the WCE is only being kept in place to save
> >>face for the economically illiterate NDP government.
> 
> While you raise some good cost-benefit points, you also have to remember
> that this is a new service. If this is still the financial situation in a
> couple of years, then you would have a reason to gripe.
>   
With ridership levels dropping like a stone, I think not.  Besides, has an
NDP government, ever managed to get a project to perform as well as
envisioned, ever?

-- 
cook



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