The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/morris.john/1996/how-silly


Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!news.izzy.net!news.good.net!news.good.net!news.dra.com!news.he.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!fu-berlin.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news.uni-leipzig.de!news1.urz.tu-dresden.de!rcs12.urz.tu-dresden.de!not-for-mail
From: uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de (Ulrich Roessler)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 17:24:33 GMT
Organization: Top of the Eierschecke
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <574nkh$7j7@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>
References: <5739u2$oem@Vir.com>
Reply-To: uroess@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: rcs12.urz.tu-dresden.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950621BETA PL0]

Jean-Francois Beaulieu (jfbe@vir.com) wrote:

:  For about a week I'm saying here that the movie shoah was turned over
: 10 years.

[..]

: >> Unless you proove your statement, ie that Suchomel was alive in 1985,

: >This is amazing.  Mr. Beaulieu sees Franz Suchomel interviewed, on video,
: >and he still considers it _our_ burden to prove that Suchomel was alive
: >at the time!

: >A splendid example of "revisionist" double standards of evidence.  Video
: >is not enough for these people.  Video!  A video interview with someone
: >is not even prima facie evidence that he was _alive_ at the time!!

:   And I saw the video 2 days ago and it prooves that Suchomel was alive
: in 1996 I suppose? 

How silly this can get - but the game of supposing and hypothetical
theories can be used also the other way round.

Suppose, someone could provide testimony by some relatives of Suchomel 
that he was still alive in 1985 and that he usually didn't like
to speak about his duties in Treblinka. But, provoked by Claude Lanzmann,
he did speak only to regret this later because he didn't like to be
shown in this film. I hear M Beaulieu shouting: - testimonies do not count. 

Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz 
Suchomel, dated let's say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one. 
Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel's certificate. M Beaulieu 
or another "Revisionist" will claim that such a document 
does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal. 

Or, M Beaulieu would ask for a forensic test of it, may be, he'll argue
someone has planted such a document in the files. If anyone took
pains to provide it he'd ask for another forensic test by a "neutral"
commission. (I think Anne Frank's diary was tested independently by
several police labs in Netherlands, Germany and Swiss, all with 
the same result that it is authentic - little surprise. But the claims 
of forgery will be renewed every other month by another deluded deniers).

So, when another forensic test would be provided, M Beaulieu could ask
for a conclusive prove, that the F.Suchomel in C.Lanzmann's film, the
guard in Treblinka, and the person reported dead in that authenticated
certificate were really the same person. May be, he'll argue, there
had been several persons with that name, or may be there was never
such a person, who knows ...

Can be proceeded ad infinitum.

u.roessler                                       uroess@urz.tu-dresden.de





Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!news.izzy.net!news.good.net!news.good.net!news-out.communique.net!demos!news.stealth.net!news.ibm.net.il!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: dvdthomas@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:31:49 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <19961122193300.OAA05882@ladder01.news.aol.com>
References: <574nkh$7j7@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com

U. Roessler wrote:

>How silly this can get.....

If your hypotheticals that followed are any indication, a lot, lot
sillier.

:-)

DT
_________________________________________________________

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man,
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began;
That the Dog returns to his Vomit, and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the fire;
And after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

--Kipling

David Thomas
CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)




Path: news.voyager.net!nntp.netrex.net!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!torn!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news
From: John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:42:36 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <3298c57e.65647688@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
References: <575lpn$f25@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: async12-4.remote.ualberta.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/32.299

In <575lpn$f25@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:
>
> Ulrich Roessler wrote:

[snip]

>>Then someone could provide an authenticated death certificate of Franz
>>Suchomel, dated let's say 1991 or so. Not impossible to get one.
>>Probably, a German agency issued Suchomel's certificate. M Beaulieu
>>or another Revisionist will claim that such a document
>>does not count because in Germany Holocaust denial was illegal.

To which the ever-witty David Thomas replied:

  From: dvdthomas@aol.com
  Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
  Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
  Date: 22 Nov 1996 19:31:49 GMT
  Message-ID: <19961122193300.OAA05882@ladder01.news.aol.com>

  >How silly this can get.....

  If your hypotheticals that followed are any indication, a lot,
  lot sillier.

Only to be followed by this incredible and very much sillier
pronouncement from Beaulieu:

> Germany is protecting lies by laws. I don't believe that the forgery of
>a document like that however is probable. A death certificate is worthless:
>there is perhaps hundreds of Franz Suchomel there, as there is hundreds of
>Pierre Tremblay in Canada. A death certificate is usefull only if you can
>make the relation with a Franz Suchomel, former SS gard, by a way or another.
>But this is up to your imagination, althought I'm afraid that the second
>part is not necessary easy. There's a very simple proof however, that someone
>can give with a death certificate: it is a necrologic notice in a newspaper.
>In a death certificate, you probably have the city also, so someone who
>lives in Berlin can check very quickly the 3 days that follows the death:
>most of the times, a photo is present, and with a bit of luck, a reference
>to the past of the men in the newspaper. The two latest ones are a formal
>proof. You see, I'm not so bad, I'm even giving you some hints if you want
>to go further. I'm not here to lie, I've simply a certanty about Treblinka.

Truly there is no stopping this juggernaut of idiocy who has found aid
and comfort (and a web page) from David Thomas and the first-class
minds at CODOH.

--
 John Morris                                
 at University of Alberta  
-- 
The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.