From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:50 PDT 1996
Article: 47304 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Between the lines
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:56:13 GMT
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, tom moran wrote:
>
>[regarding a letter to the editor by Leonard Garment]:
>
>> 	The sleezy lawyer then continues:
>
>> 	"But some reactions have been muted. Privatly, prominent Jews I
>> asked about the resolution said they had not thought much about it, or
>> that they would trust the free market in religious ideas to prevent
>> anything bad from happening." 
>
>[snip]
>
>Gee, Mr. Moran, a quick question for you: if all Jews think alike, why 
>would Mr. Garment include this paragraph, in which he expresses 
>disappointment that many "prominent Jews" were unconcerned about the 
>Baptist attempt to convert Jews to Christianity?  A sane person might 
>read that and conclude that Garment is worried that other Jews disagree 
>with him about whether the Baptists' actions are a good idea or not.

	A little tacit show of the liberal nature of Jews.

>
>(By the way, as a Unitarian who believes that people should make their 
>own religious choices, I was offended by the Baptist announcement.  
>I get annoyed by most evangelistic religious crusaders, regardless of 
>their sect.  And yes, that includes the Lubavitch Hassidim, who are, as 
>far as I know, the only "evangelistic" Jewish group.  At least they don't 
>come knocking on your door early on a Saturday morning...)

	Lubavitch too? But I see you have made the other the more of the
two evils, "At least they don't ...", (Lubavitch, that is).

>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:51 PDT 1996
Article: 47310 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OOH - WEE
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:28:20 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 105
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	Today I did a quick check of Nizkor, the Holocaust promotional
>>page.
>
>>	Their really hyping their practice of, more is better, more is
>>proof. They know full well no one is going to access all the stuff
>>they are cramming into their indexes. They are relying on people to
>>look at the indexes and say, 'Gee, with all that material, the
>>Holocasut story must be true.
>
>    And what train of logic causes you to make this conclusion.  Other
>    than: "BECAUSE! I! SAY! SO!"

	Boy. Mr.Mittleman's veins are popping out of his words. 
Now Mr.Mittleman, look into the screen. You are getting sleepy.
Sleepy. Moran's post is an opinion. A theory. What he thinks,
personally. 
	
>
>>	One access will take us to "Harvard University resources" which
>>brings up a listing of different camps. Just under Buchenwald, the
>>camp that used to be a death camp but is no longer held as so, there
>>are 150 entries. Bergen-Belsen another camp in the same standing has
>>about a 100. 
>
>    Who argues that Buchenwald used to be a death camp but no longer is? 

	Who "argues"? No one, as far as I know. 

>    Who argues that B-B used to be a death camp but no longer is?

     Who "argues"? No one, as far as I know. 
	
>    Where did they write their arguments?  What was the basis for these
>    arguments?

	Everywhere, as far as I know. Even on the moon.
>
>    You are just blowing smoke, Tommy.  You are unable to satisfactorally
>    answer these questions above.

	Why do you ask? Are you saying these camps were extermination
centers. 
    
     What are you trying to say anyway? 
>
>>	Under "Jeruselem One" we are given "Since the index was last
>>done, Gopher has grown by 200%".
>
>    So?
>
>>	"By the way: The Jeruselem One Gopher now has approx. 6,000
>>files. Since each *day* users down load/read an average of about 1400
>>- 1500 files - that means each day, a quarter of our gopher is read."
>
>    Actually, that is probably incorrect.  There is probably overlap in
>    what is downloaded.  Funny, you aren't even sharp enough to find a real
>    mistake, Tommy.  You are left to making up your own lame ones.
>
>>	Ooh, wee. Now that is impressive. At least the sentence is. I
>>don't know about the reality. Each "*day*".  Now putting the "day" in
>>between those little "*   *" certainly makes one stand up and take
>>notice.
>> 
>>	Maybe McVay will come out and tell what significance this
>>information is supposed to accomplish.
>
>    I don't believe the Jeruselem One Gopher is one of Mr. McVay's
>    projects.  Am I correct?  If so, why would he have anything to say
>    about it?
>
>>	Just a little while ago Nizkor celebrated its Happy 100 Megabyte
>>milestone. It looks like the time may come when they will being
>>celebrating their Happy 100 Gigabyte moment.
>
>    Well, that is well down the road, but I imagine it will come someday. 
>    As more graphics are stored at Nizkor the database should gain size.

	"Graphics"? Where do graphics fit in? They just take up peoples
time. If you use Comp U Serve it could cost you 10 dollars just
waiting for them. You couldn't mean 'photographics' could you? No,
that wouldn't be it. Any Holocaust photographs tend to deny the story
than confirm it.
	Could you elaborate a bit more on these "graphics", Mr.Mittleman?

>
>>	This would be cause to break out a whole case of champaign from
>>McVay's wine cellar. "Dom Perignon - of course" according to McVay's
>>personal bio of his cultural extent.  
>
>    I'd be happy with a good ale.  You, Tommy, probably won't be invited to
>    partake.

	I don't partake anyway. But wait a minute. Whos going to drive
McVay home after he gets done with his wine cellar? I mean that seems
to be the extent of his cultural interests.

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:52 PDT 1996
Article: 47324 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: flags banned by Olympic committee
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 20:50:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 35
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EEGG87A@prodigy.com (A Huber) wrote:

>Date: Friday, 28-Jun-96 11:54 AM
>
>_GA Attorney General Speaks Against Flag Ban_
>
>Georgia Attorney General Mike Bowers said yesterday (6/27/96) that an
>Olympic rule that bars people from waving nauthorized banners, including 
>the Confederate and state flag, violates free-speech rights and should 
>not be enforced by police.  The Atlanta Committee for the Olympic Games 
>(ACOG), under pressure from Jewish groups, has ruled that only national 
>flags of participating countries are allowed at
>events and people with unauthorized flags will be prevented from entering 
>or ejected.  ACOG insists the rule does not target the Confederate flag 
>or the
>Georgia state flag, which resembles the Confederate flag. Charles 
>Lunsford, spokesman for a pro-flag group said his group was offering free 
>legal help
>to anyone barred from waving the state flag.  He said "We've been 
>watching what ACOG has done for some time, and we find it terribly 
>disturbing they
>would express such arrogance as to have such an event in the middle of 
>the South and do everything they can to hide the fact they're in the 
>South,"  Georgia state representative Tyrone Brooks said of the state 
>flag:  "This is not an historic flag.  This is a flag that was changed as 
>an act of defiance against school integration and voting rights for 
>African-Americans."
  
	We also have to consider the Jews wouldn't want anyone flying the
Palestinian flag or the flag of any other Israeli enemy.

>
>[ANA]
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:52 PDT 1996
Article: 47337 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:10:29 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>
>    So, riddle me this:  How come so many Jews are world renowned figures
>    accepted by Jews and Gentiles alike and you are a pathetic little
>    creature posting anti-semitic crap on usenet from somewhere in suburban
>    LA?  Could it be that many people - Jews and Gentiles alike - have
>    figured out how to cope with the world, while you have simply figured
>    out if reality is not to your liking simply redefine it (as above) to
>    make it work for you?
>
>    Asta, Tommy.

	Wow such venom. Look I'm the one who's supposed to be getting
mad. Remember? Chutzpah, 'Say something so outrageous that it gets
your opponent mad and he can't think straight.
	Anyway the answer to your, whatever, is, if theres a Jew worth
recognizing, Einstein say, I'll recognize him or her. If it's someone
like Alan Dershowitz or Daniel Goldhagen, the only reason any goyim
would look up to them is so as not to be considered an anti-Semite.
One wouldn't want to show any contempt for any individual Jew in
Hollywood would they?   

	Here, see if you can make a relationship with the following names
as to what we are talking about.

Henry Ford
Nietsche
John Lennon
Martin Luther
Charles Dickenson
William Shakespeare
Thomas Edison

Thats enough for the purpose.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:53 PDT 1996
Article: 47360 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is "chutzpah"?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:29:44 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	For anyone who doesn't know who Alan Dershowitz is: He is a
Harvard law professor who is obsessed with Jewish things. He gets a
lot of his stuff into the editorial page of the L.A.Times. One of his
pieces was a call for corporal punishment for U.S. children.
Coincidentally, another column was given around the same time by
former N.Y. mayor Ed Koch calling for the same thing. How two idiots
>from  the East Coast got their columns calling for the physical abuse
of U.S. children into a West Coast newspaper is revealing as to the
access Jews are accomodated in U.S. medias.
     How is it that 100% of the calls for physically abusing U.S.
children were from Jews who make up only 1 or 2% of the U.S.
population.
	It is nothing more than their desire to instill Zionist like
practices in U.S. policies in order to justify and compare U.S.
policies in support for the actions of little chutzpah state of
Israel. 
	They also like to pose themselves as tough guys.

	A future post will report on the particulars under "Evil goyim
children".

	Alan Dershowitz, author the book "Chutzpah" is a meazly little
pervert who reeks. He couldn't throw a ball two feet. Of course when
it comes to something like sports or art, its obvious chutzpah cannot
make the image.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:54 PDT 1996
Article: 47361 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:32:00 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
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BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (borowsky) wrote:

>In article <31cfe5d7.655749@news.pacificnet.net>
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> 
>>
>>BOROWSKY@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (borowsky) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <31cec77a.7045339@news.pacificnet.net>
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>>
>>>>Question:
>>>>        The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
>>>>is:
>>>>
>>>>        A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?
>>>>
>>>>        B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
>>>>money.
>>>
>>>Q: Does revisionism always comes to this-- the idea that Jews manipulate
>>>history in order to manipulate the world?   As Moran's second choice implies,
>>>it seems to run from gnawing resentment to accusations of massive fraud.
>>>
>>        I see you have chosen "B." Interesting. You have chosen correct.
> 
>No, I was trying to point to the way revisionists must assume this sort of
>conspiracy theory.  Sorry to have confused you.
> 
>>This is supported by the activities of the Jews themselves. Hundreds
>>of billions of dollars have been transferred to them. Not to anyone
>>else. They have used the money for their own little selves, no one
>>else.  They have used the Holocaust to shame people and to justify
>>whatever activities they get into. [ . . . . ]
> 
>In order to support your accusation you must rely on conspiracy theory. Please,
>then, provide names of the architects and elaborate on the means by which Jews
>have carried out what I guess you'd call "the hoax of the century".  I am
>especially interested how you think the hoax has been sustained--  you may want
>to begin the gassings and crematoria since you contest them so often.  But here
>too try to keep a running amount of the number of people that would necessarily
>involved in maintaining it.
> 
> 
>--Bruce Borowsky
> 
Still opting for multiple choice "B." I see.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:55 PDT 1996
Article: 47363 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:32:08 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 14
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># Under alt.rev. post "Evil Christians" it was reported
>
>Just remind us: the "Evil Christians" title was yours, right?

	Right. Now what?
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 09:08:55 PDT 1996
Article: 47371 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz photos deny the lie
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:18:54 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service, Inc.
Lines: 30
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    No.  I just asked a simple question.  Are these people in line waiting
>    to be selected (pre-selection line) or in line already having been
>    selected (post selection line.)  I note that you didn't answer my
>    question.  I apologize if I was not clear.  Please put back your
>    original assertion (which you have clipped out) and answer it now.

	What I see in the photograph is men and women lined up and
separated to be sent on to the respective mens and womens camp. I
could be more accurate and say what I see is two lines, one of men,
one of women. Thats what the photo shows. Maybe you can show where
they are being "selected" for any gas chambers. 


>
>    Holocasut books *galore* say that the selection procedure always took
>    place at night?  You have it in your memory that this is the case, but
>    have no books to back you up?  We have a photograph right here (the one
>    being discussed) which purports you are wrong.  So, go find citations
>    *galore* or retract this error.

	Sometimes the procedure was at night, and sometimes it wasn't,
when convenient, right Mr.Mittleman? Like sometimes it was all planned
to keep it secret and sometimes it wasn't, depending on what
facilitates the story?

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 11:56:19 PDT 1996
Article: 69932 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31d7de2d.3030431@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31d7de2d.3030431@news.pacificnet.net>
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From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 11:59:55 PDT 1996
Article: 47401 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fifty Billion Dollars
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:34:57 GMT
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klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:

>In message ID <31cfe98f.1607709@news.pacificnet.net> replying to a message 
>from Danny Mittleman, Tom Moron sputtered:
>
>>"Requests"? "fairly  small"? 50,000,000,000 dollars is small?
>
>And of course you can document the 50,000,000,000 dollar claim. Mr. Moron? 
>This is a figure that is claimed by the German authorities? You have this in 
>writing from a legitimate source and can cite it here for us all?
>
>No, of course not. It is another lie that anyone with any intelligence and 
>enough energy to get to even the most modest library can determine for 
>themselves. Even the cost of a phone call to the German authorities can refute 
>this one.
>
>I am surprised. You have 'one-upped' Austin App (well actually, more than 
>'one-upped' him).
>
>The actual sum that the Germans paid to Israel, Mr. Moron, is 735,000,000. A 
>far cry from your phoney fifty billion.
>
	Excuse me, I mean 60,000,000,000 dollars, with another 20 billion
dollars yet to be paid. N.Y.Times, June 4, 1996, "Proof of Suffering
Is Price of Holocasut Reparations". 

	It's interesting how Mr.Lewis uses the word "Israel", when we
have been talking about "survivors", "victims", Jews, to be more
precise. How is it you used the word "Israel" Mr.Lewis? Were you
trying to pull a fast one? Were you trying to hoodwink the viewer,
Mr.Lewis? Did you think no one would notice?  
	Thanks for posting your sleezy response right out under a new
heading, which gives your deceit a bit more exposure and the
opportunity to posts the numbers.

	Actually Mr.Lewis, I don't know the exact amount, to the nearest
billion, but as you can see, I said 50,000,000,000 dollars instead of
the 60,000,000,000 dollars. I recall reading a while back the figure
is more like 200,000,000,000 dollars but I opted for the lower. I'll
leave the sleeze up to you Mr.Lewis.  

	Play around with this one. As asserted by ex Secretary George
Ball, in his book on Jewish intrigues and the cost to the U.S. he says
it has cost us 500,000,000,000 dollars.

	Every dollar that went to or continues to go to Jewish causes,
whatever the amount, is that much less that goes to our own needy
citizens. How many schools could be built? How many hospitals. How
many homes for the millions of indigents? How much of our enviroment
could have been saved with that much money? For research and
developement? 
	Instead it has gone to ...? What do the Jews do with the money
anyway, Mr.Lewis, do you know? 
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 11:59:56 PDT 1996
Article: 47423 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is "chutzpah"?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:51:37 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  
>>  	"Chutzpah is a Jewish practice for dealing with non-Jews. It is a
>>  major part of the upbringing process within the community, from within
>>  the home to the synagogue.
>
>	That's a lie.  You are a liar.
>
>  
>  
>>  Alan Deshowitz, in his book by that name, "Chutzpah", summarizes it as
>>  "A little boy who kills his parents and then pleads to the court for
>>  mercy on the grounds he is an orphan".
>
>	Dershowitz did *not* "summarize"  it in that manner.  I note, as well, 
>that you have admitted that you have not read the book you are quoting.
>
>
>
>  
>>  Another way of putting it is:
>  
>>          Someone putting a big spoon full of reeking doo doo up to your
>>  mouth and telling you it's honey.
>
>	Bullshit.  You are an anti-Semite and a liar who, according to one 
>source that you cited in support, broadcasting "mis-information" and 
>"dis-information."
>
>	Want to challenge me to prove my statements, L'il  Tommy?

	Why should I "challenge" you? You should be just including the
proof.

>
>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 11:59:57 PDT 1996
Article: 47441 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Testimonial Fiction
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:18:23 GMT
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                       BEHOLD THE ABSURD



kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote: 4/19/96	

>Archive/File: camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka leleko.002
>Last-Modified: 1995/08/18
>Source: United States Department of Justice
>
>                            EXCERPT 
>               From Interrogration of Defendant
>
>February 21, 1945. Lieutenant EPPEL', Investigator of the Fourth
>Department of the "SMERSH" Directorate of Counterintelligence of the
>Second Belorussian Front interrogated as defendant -
>
>      LELEKO, Pavel Vladimirovich, born in 1922, native of the village
>      of Chaplinka, Chaplinka District, Nikolayev Region, Ukrainian,
>      citizen of the USSR.

	This report like all the rest lacks a certain detail that one
might expect from a real hearing. This report is really an
"interogation" of a person who testifies to the mass extermination of
human beings at Treblinka, an alleged extermination center. It is more
like some tale with a few questions inserted. A question is asked and
then Leleko goes off with a extended comment and the interogator never
poses any request for clarification. Even UFO story writers cover
their stuff more carefully.
	As far as Treblinka is concerned, there is nothing to the story
than "eyewitness testimony". No photographs or anything. The Treblinka
chapter of the Holocaust story has it that the 40 acre camp was built
one year where the Germans exterminated up to 2,000,000 the next year,
demolished by the Germans the next year, and was nothing more than a
tree farm a next year later.
	The report is titled "EXERPT - interrogation of defendant". so we
know we are getting only part of the story. It took place in Feb. 1945
just a month after the Russians arrived at Auschwitz.
	Instead of wearing anyone out with a lot of prelude I will just
post a summary of the report first that shows how absurd it really is.
A full step by step composition and critique follows for anyone
interested in looking into the point by point critique which
highlights the points of the summary. 
                                 =======

                             Summary

	Considering how this witness is called a defendant, we should
wonder what kind of proceedings these were. Did the defendant have a
lawyer? Who knows.
	Since the defendant was implicating other names in the testimony
we wonder if his testimony wasn't used in any trials for those named.
It would be interesting to see what these other named people testified
to. Maybe Nizkor (McVay) will post them if any exists. 
	Who knows. Maybe a Leleko never even existed. After all, the
Holocaust story refers to the Soviets as liars in the matter when its
convenient, such as who was responsible for the gross exaggerations of
the numbers said to have been killed at Auschwitz.
	One of the Almanac posts by McVay, titled "Treblinka's 'new and
improved' killing machine" describes a major renovation in the middle
of the existing extermination process at the camp, including 10 new
gas chambers, "although according to some sources the new building
included only six gas chambers", and Leleko didn't mention any of it
even though any dates given show he would have been there when any
changes were made.
	Whatever, excluding any of the Almanac comment, and focusing just
on this testimony our summary observations would have to recall that
the "pit" which was only a bit larger than a average sized residental
swimming pool could handle 1000 people at a time. That it had some
kind of fire at the bottom, that burned constantly, day and night yet
could be cleaned of ashes, that the people were either laid on rails
over it, dumped in, rolled in or were carried down into it, that 6,000
to 8,000 people were left over each day that the pit could not
accommodate, that the prisoners bound for the camp were allowed to
carry knives and razors, that the system was of such a nature that the
Germans had to endure total mayhem on a day by day basis and even
contibuted to it, that people tore or bit ears and noses off, that
after the crushing ordeal and tearing and/or biting ears and noses off
the ones who survived were mostly pregnant women, that the prisoners
knew about their fate, yet looked foward to the future, and that
inspite of any McVay "Transcription Note" the witness claimed
2,000,000 people were killed there in one year. 
                        =============

                       The Full Excerpt

>Question: What was the system of mass extermination of people in the
>German death camp of Treblinka?
>
>Answer: Two to three trainloads of doomed prisoners arrived daily at
>the Treblinka railroad station. Each train consisted of 60 cars. The
>train was brought in three installments into the second section of the
>"death camp". Twenty cars were brought in every half hour. As soon as
>the cars crossed the barbed wire, the guard was changed. The policemen
>escorting the train remained outside the camp and left on the
>locomotive to fetch the next batch of prisoners. The railroads cards
>brought into the camp were immediately unloaded by the guards. We
>started to unload the cars with the help of the so-called "blue crew"
>consisting of doomed prisoners wearing a blue armband on the sleeve.
>Those arriving were told that they must first go to the batch house
>and will then be sent further to the Ukraine. But the sight of the
>camp, the enormous flaming pyre burning at one end of the camp, the
>suffocating stench from decomposing bodies that spread for some 10 km
>around and was particularly strong within the camp itself, made it
>clear what the place really was.

	Okay, right here we have the statement that everyone arriving at
the camp became immediately aware of what was in store for them.
Notice the statement that the "enormous flaming pyre" was at one end
of the camp. Treblinka is reported to have consisted of 16 hectares
(about 40 acres). Another testimony on Treblinka states that all the
burying, unburying, burning and reburying took place right inside this
40 acres. As we will see later on in the report, the witness claims
2,000,000 people were murdered and disposed of in just one year, which
would be within the confines of the 40 acres.
	The witness states the smell from the raging pyre could be
smelled ten kilometers away. "Ten kilometers"?
 
>The people chased out of the cars with whips guessed immediately where
>they had been brought; some attempted to climb over the barbed wire of
>the fencing, got caught at it, and we opened fire on those who were
>trying to escape and killed them.
> We tried to quiet down the fear-crazed people with heavy clubs.
> After all those who were able to walk had been unloaded, only the
> ailing, the killed and the wounded remained in the railroad cars.

Again, all the people were aware of what was in store for them. As we
will see, this procedure was carried out 3,000 times, using just a
years duration of time as a component of the ciphering, not including
any other "years" the witness testified to.
	It seems the Germans didn't have a very good procedure for
keeping the intended victims from knowing what was in store for them,
and never did figure one out, having to go through this wild mayhem on
a day to day basis.

>These were carried by the prisoners
>belonging to the "blue crew" into the so-called "infirmary", the name
>given to the place where the ailing and the wounded were shot and the
>dead were burned.

	Right here we have the statement saying this "infirmary" was a
place that you entered and where the dead were burned. Try to
formulate a picture of this incineration process along the way.

> This place became particularly crowded when the
>prisoners marked for death who were brought in the railroad cars
>attempted to commit suicide. Thus, in March 1943 there arrived a train
>in which half of the prisoners cut their throats and hands with
>razors.

	Now the testimony so far says 3 trains a day arrived at the camp,
each having 60 cars, and 20 cars at a time were brought up to be
unloaded, which would make the total number of times this procedure
would have happened in a year about 3000 times. Thus on this one
occasion out of 3000 times, half the prisoners cut their own throats.
	Evidentally the Germans didn't search the prisoners before 
they were loaded on the train or they were allowed to carry razors and
knives. We might assume these razors were the flip out "straight"
razor types, common to the era. Are we to believe the Germans allowed
hundreds of these weapons to get through, especially knowing what kind
of place the prisoners were going? Was this the only trainload that
had possession of all these knives and razors? 
	The testimony that these people killed themselves before they
even got off the train would indicate they knew what was in store for
them even before unloading.

> While unloading was going on, the prisoners cut themselves
>with knives and razors before the eyes of us, the policement, saying: 
>"anyhow you will kill us". The majority of those who did not die of
>self-inflicted wounds were shot. After the unloading, all those who
>could stand on their feet were chased toward the undressing place.
>There the wormen were separated from the men and pushed into a special
>barrack, while the men were told to undress right there outside
>another barrack. During the first years of the existence of the camp,
>women and men undressed together in the same barrack,

	The Holocaust story has it that Treblinka was in operation for
only a year yet here we have the testimony, "During the first years of
the existance of the camp ...". Evidentally this testimony wasn't
synchronized with other accounts that had to have the process of the
camp last only one year.

> But it happened
>once that the prisoners attacked the "chief of the working crew" in
>the undressing barrack. Somehow the man managed to escape from there.
>Several policemen and Germans immediately rushed in. One of the
>Germans started firing into the crowd from his sub-machine gun. After
>they had stopped shooting, the Germans and the policemen started to
>beat with clubs and whips those who survivied. After this incident,
>men were assigned a special place in the  open air in which to
>undress, by the barrack, across from the women's undressing place.
>Pushed by the clubs of the Germans and the policemen, the men threw
>off their clothing, having first handed their valuables and money to a
>special "cashier's office". The women were obliged to remove their
>shoes before entering the undressingplace. They were forced to remove
>all their clothing under the supervision of German policemen and
>prisoners of the so-called "red crew". Those who resisted were
>whipped.

	Here we have the first accounts of the brutal sadistic nature of
the Germans. 

>Very often the Germans and the policemen tore off and cut off the
>clothing of those who did not want to undress or undressed too slowly.
>Many women begged to be allowed to keep at least some clothing on
>their persons, but the German, smiling cynically, ordered them to
>undress "to the end". The policemen or the workers threw to the ground
>and undressed who refused to do so. The undressed women were told to
>hand over all their valuables and money to the "cashier's office".
>After this the women were driven in groups to another part of the
>barrack, where 50 prisoners - "hairdressers" were working. The women
>sat on a long bench and the "hairdressers" cut off their hair. The cut
>hair were packed in large bags and sent by trainloads to Germany. One
>of the Germans told me that in Germany they are used to fill
>mattresses, also for soft upholstery. He said that this hair make very
>good mattresses and the Germans buy them willingly.

	The hair was bagged and sent to Germany to be made into
mattresses and upholstery. This is in the same ilk as the now defunct
soap story which was well publicized in the early years after the war.
We could take special note of the attack on the German people in
general with "He said that this hair make very good mattresses and the
Germans buy them willingly". "Willingly" to imply they knew what they
were buying.

>good mattresses and the Germans buy them willingly.
>After their hair was cut the women were sent in batches to the third
>section of the camp, to the "bath house", but in reality to the gas
>chamber to be exterminated there.
>
>Before entering the gas chamber building they passed along a long path
>bordered on both sides with a high fence made of barbed wire and
>branches. Along the edge of the path stood policemen and Germans. Each
>one held a whip or a club. I stood repeatedly on the edge of this path
>with other policemen and drove along with a whip the women and the men
>into the gas chamber building. Many women were not quite sure that
>they would now be exterminated and in order to have some means of
>subsistence in the future, they hid some valuables on their persons.

	All of a sudden the prisoners, who in the immediate previous
testimony were all supposed to know they were going to die, hid their
valuables so they would "have some subsistence in the future".
"Future"? 

>To prevent this, the Germans placed special controllers in the center
>of the path. When they noticed that a woman walked along the path
>holding her legs close together, she was stopped at once and cynically
>examined, and if anything was found on her, she was beaten almost to
>death. The men walked more quietly down this path. Several times I
>heard how one, speaking to another, asked: "Why are you weeping? Do
>you believe you can arouse compassion in these Germans?" Frequently we
>could hear cries of "Hail Stalin!", "Hail the Red Army!" To us Russian
>guards, they said: "Today you exterminate us, and tomorrow the Germans
>will be killing you".
>
>When the procession of doomed people approached the gas chamber
>building, MARCHENKO and Nikolay, the motorists of the gas chambers
>shouted: "Walk faster, or the water will become cold!" Each group of
>women or men was pushed from behind by some German and very frequently
>by Franz, the camp commander himself, escorted by dogs. As they
>approached the gas chambers, the people started to recoil in horror,
>sometimes they tried to retrace their steps. Then whips and clubs were
>used. Franz immediately ordered his dog to attack the naken people.
>Each trained for this, it grabbed them by their genitals.

	Okay, more stories of German brutality. 

>Aside from the motor operators who had dogs with them, there were five
>or six Germans near the gas chambers. With whips and clubs they chased
>people into the passage of the gas chamber building and then into the
>gas chambers. The Germans and the motor operators then competed as to
>atrocities with regard to the people to be killed. MARCHENKO for
>instance, had a sword with which he mutilated people. He cut off the
>breasts of women.

	Can you picture it. As the Germans and the Russian motorman were
herding the people into the gas chamber they took time to hack a few
in front of the others. Evidentally the Germans didn't worry about
this causing any panic among the rest, all this happening again and
again during the 3000+ times the procedure took place. Can you picture
it? Womens breasts laying around on the ground. What happened then?
Did they just file the people into the chambers over the cut off
breasts or did someone have to go around and pick them up? Did they
put the mutilated body parts in containers and then take them over to
the cremation along with the rest of the bodies?
 
>When the chamber was filled to capacity, the Germans or the motorists
>came to the door and started beating up the naked people with a rubber
>whip and at the same time set their dogs against them. The prisoners
>shrank away into the depth of the chamber yielding place to more
>prisoners.
> Such a pressing-in occurred several times so that some 700
>to 800 people could be crowded into the not-so-large chambers. When
>the chambers were filled to the very limit, the Germans started to
>throw in the children left by the women either in the undressing place
>or more frequently outside the gas chamber building. As the ceiling of
>the gas chambers was very low, the children thrown into the chamber
>hit the ceiling and then, disfigured, sometimes with broken heads,
>fell on the heads of the prisoners.

	We will recognize by the end of what is given, we can not get a
picture of this chamber in our heads or the size of the door. But
according to a previous post by McVay "Holocaust Almanac: The Killing
Begins" posted 10/23/95, the doors would have been barely three feet
across by 5 feet high. This Leleko testimony says kids were thrown in
over the heads of those in the chamber. The ceiling is said to have
been very low. An average ceiling is about 8 feet, but this one was
very low. Seven feet? Six feet? Now how far could someone throw a
child in under the circumstances described?  The people were densed
packed in, so they must have been right at the door way too. How did
the Germans contain this situation while throwing in the children
through a 3 foot by 5 foot door with very little head room as the
space that the children were thrown? According to the other mentioned
testimony, fake shower heads were installed which one might think even
put more of a problem of throwing in babies over the heads of the
dense packed people.
	Whatever, the McVay Almanac account says "There had been
instances in the old chambers in which little children had not been
asphyxiated because gas rose to the ceiling". This seems thoroughly
contradictory to this Leleko testimony, or vice versa.	

>When loading of the chambers was completed, they were sealed off by
>hermetically closing doors. 

	On the one hand the witness says a chamber was loaded with 800
people and the another post by McVay from the Almanac says 600. 

>Motorists MARCHENKO and Nikolay started
>the motors. The gas produced went through the pipes into the chambers.
>The process of suffocation began.

	This person is under the opinion that the extermination process
was by suffocation and not the result of being poisoned with carbon
monoxide. In the other testimony mentioned, it says the gas was
introduced through the piping to the showerheads, a story that was
applied at on time to tales of Auschwitz, and other camps now revised
as having never been extermination camps in the first place. 

> Some time after the motor had been
>started, the motorists looked into the chambers through special
>observation portholes situated near each door, in order to determine
>how the process of extermination was going on. When asked what they
>saw, the motorists answered that the people were writhing, crushing
>each other. I also tried to look through the porthole, but for some
>reason could see nothing. 

	He looked in but couldn't see anything? Was this only once out of
all the time he was there, or did he attempt it numerous times? The
motorman didn't seem to have any problem looking inside, even though
he should have, since the Almanac says there were no lights at all
inside the chamber. 

>Gradually the noise in the chambers died
>down. Some fifteen minutes later the motors were stopped and there was
>an unusual silence.
>
>While extermination of this batch of prisoners went on, a new batch of
>condemned people arrived into the camp. The entire process started all
>over again.
>
>Question: What was done with the bodies of the prisoners?

	So we can see from this question the interogators weren't
concerned with or didn't formulate any questions while listening to
the witness.

>Answer: When the process of extermination by gasses was completed, the
>outer doors of the chambers were opened. The disfigured, bitten
>prisoners, with torn-off noses and ears lay on top of each other in
>the most varied postures.

	Suddenly "outer doors". Actually going by the description of how
the Germans made a number of whippings to get more and more people
into the chambers, "800 in a not too large of a chamber" we wonder how
they would have room to "writher and crush" each other. They should
all have died standing up.
	What happened inside the chambers? The prisoners "tore off" their
own noses and ears or they tore each others noses and ears off? How
did they do this in a tight dense pack situation like the one thus
described? How does one tear off noses and ears? Maybe it means the
victims bit each others ears and noses off.
	This didn't seem to be the case in the tales of Auschwitz.
Perhaps Holocaust defenders would say it because they were gassed with
carbon momoxide. Yet carbon monoxide is a very sutble gas. Many people
have died from just being in the same room with some brickettes,
trying to keep warm. They die in their sleep. And of course many
people have committed suicide by sitting in their car with a hose
running from the tail pipe through a window. Are these all reported to
have died in a writhering agony?

>Several hundred prisoners destined for death and belonging to the
>"working crews" were chased to the gas chamber building and they
>started to unload the chambers.

	Several hundred were involved in unloading the chambers.      

> In order to facilitate the removal of
>the dead bodies from the chambers, streams of water were poured over
>them. The bodies were laid on stretchers. An especially assigned man
>with pincers stood right there and opened the dead mouths. If he found
>any gold teeth he yanked them out with his pincers. The bodies were
>carried on stretchers to the special furnace about which I have
>testified earlier.

	Here we have it one guy, "An especially assigned man" standing
"right there" to pull the teeth as the hundreds of workers filed up to
and away from the chamber. We can imagine the process would be quite
confusing, what with all the bodies crammed in, the workers lined up
to get the bodies, stopping to have the teeth pulled out of the body
they were carrying, filing past each other back and forth over the
path as they retrieved and carried away back to be cremated. All this
with body parts laying around on the ground?

> On the way there, under the effect of the fresh
>air, some of the killed, especially pregnant women, began to revive,
>to groan.

	After the massive crushing into the chamber(s), there to wait 15
minutes while the gas was introduced and people were writhering in the
dense pack situation, tearing and/or biting noses and ears off, it
turns out the ones that survived were mostly pregnant women.  

> We the policemen, shot them on the spot and I had to shoot
>them too. The bodies were laid on the rails of the incinerator where
>the fire burned already. Some 800-1000 bodies were laid on the
>incinerator at one time.

	Take note of these mentioned "rails". Were they over some kind of
pit? Maybe we'll find out down the road. We can hold onto the "800 to
1,000 bodies" for future comment.  

> They continued to burn for some five hours.

	Amid this testimony it is said that a new batch was brought in
every half hour, that there were 2 to 3 trains a day coming in, each
one holding 3,500 to 4,000 people. Lets take the 3,500, giving the
Holocaust story the benefits of the lower numbers. This would be
rounded off, 10,000 people a day. Giving the Holocaust story the
benefit of the two numbers we can say 1000 people were cremated every
6 hours, giving time for loading the bodies and recovering any ashes.
This would come out to roughly 4 loads a day, 1000 people per load,
4,000 a day, leaving 6,000 left over, daily. Not giving the Holocaust
story any accomodation in the numbers the number of people left over
beyond the system's capacity would be 8,000. 

>This incinerator functioned ceaselessly day and night. After the
>bodies had been burned, the prisoners belonging to the "working crews"
>passed the ashes and remains of the bodies through a sieve.

	Now this conveniently accounts for why there has never been any
evidence found that would support the story of millions being killed.

> The parts
>of the body that had burned but had preserved their natural shape were
>put into a special mortar and pounded into flour. This was done in
>order to hide the traces of the crimes committed. Later on the ashes
>were buried in deep pits.
>
>During the first year of the existence of the "death camp", the bodies
>of the dead people were not burned but were buried.
	
	We can see the statement says the bodies were buried whole in the
first year, so this would do away with anyone trying to say the 6,000
to 8,000 left over bodies on a day by day occurance were not taken to
other areas to be burned, buried or whatever. The next statement
reiterates this.  

> Starting in 1943,
>after the incinerator was built, the pits with the bodies buried in
>them were opened up and the content burned.

	 The story having the bodies dug up, burned and reburied would
seem to explain why no evidence of such a vast undertaking exists. But
this is not the case. The vast amount of ashes in the disrupted
regolithic sequence of the soil would be subject to investigation and
determination by soil analysis and comparison with adjacent land, even
unto today. Especially since the whole thing was said to have taken
place within 40 acres of land, making location of the graves sites
easy, if any existed.
	It should be recalled that this interogation was supplied by the
Soviets, who never did one single forensic test or probe to verify any
of the allegations or testimony they presented. 

> All this work was done by
>the prisoners waiting to die under the supervision of the Germans and
>of us, the policemen.
>
>Question: What was the purpose of the so-called "infirmary"?
>
>Answer: The Germans gave the name of "infirmary" to that place in the
>death camp where the sick and wounded prisoners were killed. The
>"infirmary" covered a small area, in the center of which there was a
>large pit six to eight meters in diameter and three meters deep. At
>its bottom there always burned a fire into which the bodies were
>thrown.

	Okay. The "infirmary" has been identified again as the place
where the cremations took place. No other place is mentioned. Here we
are given further details as to the fire pit (incineration facility).
It was about 7 meters (21 feet) across and three meters (9 feet) deep.
Just a little bigger than the area size of a average residential
swimming pool. 

> The entire area of the "infirmary" was surrounded by a large
>fence of barbed wire and branches. To the side of the fire, around the
>corner of the fence, there was a sentry hut in which those who worked
>in the "infirmary" rested and warmed themselves. Those included MATUS,
>the German unterscharfu"hrer, whom we called the "doctor", the
>policeman-guard and five prisoners from the "working crew". On their
>sleeves they wore white bands with a red cross. When the trains
>carrying the doomed prisoners came in, all those who could not move,
>the ailing and the wounded were carried or assisted to the sentry hut
>in the "infirmary" by the prisoners belonging to the working crews.
>There the "infirmary attendants" quickly undressed them, brought them
>to the fire in groups of several and sat them on the ground. MATUS
>then approached them from behind and shot them one after the other
>either with his pistol, his submachine gun or his rifle.

	Of course a little more about German brutality.

> The dead rolled to the bottom of the pit to the fire.

	Okay, the dead "rolled" to the bottom of the pit, which would
indicate it was sort of bowl shaped. To the "bottom" of the pit and
thus to the "fire"? What kind of fire? Some logs burning at the
bottom? A grate over burners fed by gas or oil? What happened to the
"rails" that he said they laid the bodies on? Who knows? Will we find
out the answer to all this by the end of this report? No.

> We the guards who were on
>duty in the "infirmary" also took part in the shooting. When all the
>wounded and the sick had been killed, the "infirmary attendants" went
>down into the pit and threw the dead into the fire.

	Wait a minute. The workers went down into the pit to throw the
dead into the fires? But what about the "rails" or rolling the bodies
down?

> At least 100
>prisoners were shot daily in the "infirmary". It happened once that
>among the ailing in an incoming train there were the father and mother
>of one of the prisoners destined to die and belonging to a "working
>crew". Pushed by policemen, he carried his father to the "infirmary"
>to be shot. In the "infirmary", near the sentry hut, he and his father
>fell to the ground. MATUS threw himself at him with a whip. He then
>ran to the train and soon returned carrying his mother. After this he
>became insane. The German shot him and then killed the father and the
>mother.

	A special personal detail.
>
>Question: What were the "working crews" of the "death camp"? How were
>they assembled?
>
>Answer: As I have already testified, the servicing of the "death camp"
>was carried out by special crews composed of those who had been
>brought in for extermination. They camp comprised several "working
>crews", such as the "blue" working crew which unloaded the trains, the
>"red" working crew which serviced the undressing places, the "black"
>working crew which destroyed the bodies. There was also a special crew
>that sorted out the belongings of the killed. Altogether the crews
>numbered up to 1,500 persons. They also included some 15 women who did
>the washing of clothes. Selection into the working crew took place
>according to the need for their services - from among the prisoners
>brought to the camp to be exterminated. Until the end of 1942 the
>working crews were assembled every two-three days and correspondingly,
>every two-three days they were all exterminated in the "infirmary".

	Every three days the Germans exterminated 1,500 workers, in the
infirmary? Considering Leleko's previous statement "The
"infirmary" covered a small area ..." we might get the idea this would
be a bit chaotic. 

>Their extermination was conducted in the following manner. After work,
>around 10-11 p.m., a working crew of some 100-200 people was brought
>to the "infirmary". They were then taken into the place in batches of
>five and shot there by the policemen and the Germans. Those belonging
>to the working crews and who happened to be then near the barbed wire
>fencing in the "infirmary" could hear how their comrades were being
>killed and waited for their own death. Within one and one half or two
>hours hundreds of people had been shot and were burning on the fire.
>Working crews were also exterminated for having done something that
>displeased the Germans.

	The former workers were taken into the infirmary 5 at a time.
Okay. At least we don't have to struggle trying to conceive a picture
of them being in there all at once. But hold it. There were 1,500 all
together that were exterminated 5 at a time which would mean the
procedure would have had to repeat itself 300 times, taking place
during a time span of "one to one and a half to two hours", which
would come out to one batch every 20 seconds for a one and a half hour
duration. This must have been quite a scene, what with the other
bodies being brought in to the infirmary from the gas chambers. Why
did the Germans bring in the workers 5 at a time? The witness doesn't
say. 

>In September 1942, soon after I entered the "death camp" as they were
>laying down bodies for burial in the large pits, the workers killed a
>German who had shown particularly savage cruelty toward the prisoners.

	More German brutality.		

>Immediately the entire crew, numbering some 250 people, were grouped
>at the bottom of the pit together with the bodies that they had not
>yet had time to bury. The workers were executed right there over the
>bodies of the dead prisoners. One after the other they were brought to
>the end of the pit, laid on the dead bodies and their heads were cut
>off or split up with an axe or wooden mallet. All 250 were killed in
>this way.
>
>A similar case occurred soon after in the first section of the "death
>camp".
>
> During the evening inspection, a German conducting the
>inspection, displeased with the workers because their answers were not
>clear enough, started to beat them in turn and during this incident,
>one of the workers hit him with a knife. The entire crew was
>immediately surrounded by Germans and policemen. Every fifth worker
>was killed with axes in full view of the entire assembly. Over 50
>persons were thus hacked down.

	More German brutality.

>It happened that the Germans learned that several among the working
>crews were preparing a riot. These people, they were found to be ten
>of them, were seized and hung by their feet. They suffered for five
>hours and after they were dead they still hung on posts for three days
>in the middle of the camp. It was enough for a worker not to look
>pleasantly enough at a German, not to greet him, to be immediately
>killed. Nevertheless, goaded on with whips and bullets, they went to
>their death, led their kin, their relations to be shot, did everything
>they were ordered to do. The Germans not only exterminated them, but
>also used them for their own amusement. They forced them to stage
>comical plays, they organized a large orchestra composed of prisoners
>waiting to die, which played every day some light music under the
>windows of the camp commander. They also staged amusements of a
>different sort. One day the commander declared that he wanted to be
>the guest at a wedding among the doomed prisoners. Right away a young
>woman was picked out among the laundry women and a groom was found
>among the workers. Both were dressed in appropriate fashion and
>ordered to go through the complete wedding ritual. The "newlyweds"
>were given a separate room. On the second day the commander of the
>camp declared that the newlyweds must of necessity leave for a
>"honeymoon trip". Escorted by the guards and the Germans and also the
>workers, the "groom" and the "bride" were brought to the "infirmary"
>and shot and then thrown into the fire. Meanwhile the Germans ordered
>the workers to shout "Happy Voyage"! and "See you soon!"
>
>Question: Name the figure for the number of people exterminated in the
>Treblinka death camp?
>
>Answer: During my stay in the "death camp", i.e. during the period
>from September 1942 to September 1943, no less than two million were
>exterminated there. Every day, with rare interruptions, two-three
>trainloads arrived to the camp, each one bringing in some 3,500-4,000
>doomed prisoners. On the average six to eight thousand were
>exterminated daily. How many were exterminated in this camp during its
>entire existence I do not know. [Transciption note: using this
>man's own figures, the figure of two million cannot be supported - his
>figures suggest 1.2 to 1.4 million, or about double the generally
>accepted death toll for Treblinka. knm. Aug. 5, 1994]

	Heres one of McVay's "Transcription Notes". McVay is pointing out
the witnesses claim of two million as opposed to his statement of
4,000 a day, times the year, 365 days, 1,400,000. Which figure, 1.2
million or 1.4 million is double the "generally accepted" death toll,
McVay doesn't say. The one figure floating around is 900,000. Half of
1.2 million would be 600,000 and for 1.4 million 700,000.
	What should one make out of this testimony. Is the witness prone
to exaggeration or even downright lieing? McVay doesn't seem to have a
transcription comment on this. Oh well, 2,000,000 isn't to far from
600,000, 700,000 or 900,000, the Leleko figures being just two to
three times the Holocaust story's figures, which conforms to the
general standard for Holocaust figures.  

>Question: What was the nationality of those who were exterminated?
>
>Answer: The crushing majority were of Jewish nationality. They were
>brought to the "death camp" from Germany, Poland, Bulgaria and France.

	But of course. The Holocaust story is 99.999% a Jewish story.

>Possibly from other countries also, but of this I do not know. Aside
>from Jews, several hundred Gypsies and Poles were exterminated there.

	Okay 600,000, 700,000, 900,000 or 2,000,000 minus several hundred
gives us more of a perspective on what Leleko means by a "crushing
majority" were Jewish.
>
>This testimony has been written down from my words correctly, has been
>read by me (signature) LELEKO

                       >Interrogation made by: Investigator of the
Fourth Department of the
>SMERCH Directorate of Counterintelligence of the Second Belorussian
>Front, Lietenant (signature) EPPEL'
>
>The Excerpt is true: First Deputy Procurator of the Crimean Region,
>Senior Councillor of Justice. (KUPTSOV)

	 
>The Nizkor Project (Canada) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>        Anonymous ftp: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>        European mirror: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 15:10:30 PDT 1996
Article: 47475 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:55:32 GMT
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		Behold the lie, tell your friends.

	For those who are new to investigating whether or not the
Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory
sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it
comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It
is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves.

	A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced.
After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism"
those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have
had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the
previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been
exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of
1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to
keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the
Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter
so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision
process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a
bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace,
style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. 

	As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at
Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I
give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

                            --------
	
       "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put
at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the
former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million.
Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust
are much lower than previously thought?"

*("well over" meaning 4 million)

	The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an
"invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R.,
"to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely
overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau
by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the
figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that
their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims".
       
        Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just
go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic.

	"The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust
has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures."

                             ---------

	Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall
6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at
Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000
down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to
see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a
blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader.
	
  
   Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the
   Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews
	
   Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz 
   dead at about 2,300,000.
 
   "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_.  Chicago: World Book,
   1980.  2,500,000

   Billig, Joseph.  _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du
   Reich hitlerien_.  Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973.
   pp 101-102. 2,000,000

   Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974.  p
   855.  1,000,000 to 2,500,000

   Friedman, Filip.  _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_.
   Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich.  London:
   The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000

   Kamenetksy, Ihor.  _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_.  New
   Haven: College and University Press, 1961.  p174   2,500,000

   Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_.  Berlin,  1974, 157.  3,500,000 to

   4,500,000
   
   Wellers, Georges.  "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au
   camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 
   1,600,000
   
   Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz:
   Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_.  Reinbek bei
   Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211.  2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Czech, D.  "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte,"
   in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des
   Konzentrationslagers_.  Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof.  _Resistance in the Nazi concentration
   camps, 1933-1945_.  Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982,
   44. 	2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Madajczyk, Czeslaw.  _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce;
   okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_.  Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe,
   1970, 293-94.  2,800,000 to 4,000,000

   _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator
   encyklopedyczny_.  Warsaw: Panst.  Wydaw.  Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Nora Levin's "The Holocaust",  2,000,000 to 2,300,000
  
   Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991
   Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000

   
                             -------

	So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the
6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with
the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence
to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite
anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which
would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those
numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000
Jews.

	This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our
daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to
death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at
Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of
those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite
anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what
number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to
have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews,
to see how wide spread the figures are.
	
	Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization
involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust
story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they
are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are
committing a lie. 
	In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal
Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the
pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the
record straight? 				    
	It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the
initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact
struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be
suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust
beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were.

       	     Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends

	How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz?
	How many do you think were Jewish?

	The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000
or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to
yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust
beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was
always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later.
	
	WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story
has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a
number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping
away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed
"anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis".
	
	
		



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 15:10:31 PDT 1996
Article: 47480 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: flags banned by Olympic committee
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:45:33 GMT
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References: <4r6i7q$29ps@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> <31d6e83c.1368456@news.pacificnet.net> <4r7gb7$8di@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
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rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>	We also have to consider the Jews wouldn't want anyone flying the
>>Palestinian flag or the flag of any other Israeli enemy.
>
>Sorry. The Palestinian Authority, which, sorry again, is at peace with
>Israel now, is sending a delegation to the Olympics, and will fly their
>flag unhindered by ZOG. In fact, I doubt there will be any substantial
>protests regarding the Palestinians at the Olympics at all. The official
>abbreviation for the Palestinian team is PLE (Israel is ISR).
>
>It must really suck being an antisemite in a world increasingly at peace. 
>You can't even count on Israelis and Palestinians to hate each other
>anymore. (Not all of them, at least.)

	This "peace" you talk about, is this one that was voted on by the
people of Israel and their amen corner here in the U.S., the one where
the new elected Prime Minister was voted in who ran on the platform of
defying U.N. Resolutions, no Palestinian State, no compromise on
Jeruselem, no compromise on the Golan Heights, the one that caused the
full Arab world to meet in Cairo to discuss the intransience of Israel
- is this the "peace" your talking about?
>
>Related story about a runner on the Palestinian team at
>http://www.usatoday.com/olympics/odxg011.htm
>
>-rich
> http://www.c2.org/~rich/



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 15:10:32 PDT 1996
Article: 47481 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust "Museum of Tolerance"
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:54:04 GMT
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	This is the name of the Holocaust museum in Los Angeles,
California, formerly known as the "The Simon Wiesenthal Museum", or
something like that.
	The unwritten but expressed motto of the "Museum of Tolerance"
is: 'The members of the Museum of Tolerance do not tolerate any
opposition to the contents and conclusions of the Museum of
Tolerance'.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 17:50:46 PDT 1996
Article: 47506 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Remember the Children"
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:54:34 GMT
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	"Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted
around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It
is displayed on the inside and on the outside.
	This motto "Remember the Children" definetly does not apply to
the Palestinian children who have their houses blown up or are barred
>from  medical treatment, have their food supply threatened, their
schools shut down and have been mowed down by bullets, all by the will
and by the tolerance of the Jewish state of Israel, which itself is
the child of the Holocaust story.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 17:50:46 PDT 1996
Article: 47516 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 22:11:11 GMT
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rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <31d7d35c.261223@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>>
>>>The JDL is no ally of mine.
>>>What does this thread have to do with the historicity of the holocaust?
>>>Oh, I get it: it's another way to bash Jews.  Some Jews are terrorists,
>>>therefore all Jews are terrorists.
>>>Regards,
>>>Rich Green
>>
>>	The JDL is plugged on Nizkor, accomodated a link, under
>>"anti-racist resources". Nizkor is a Holocasut promotional page. The
>>rest of your raving gets nothing. And I don't believe you have a
>>problem with the JDL. Its obvious your ethnocentrically insane. Thats
>>why you ask what the post had to do with the Holocaust, without
>>recognizing it yourself, which was obvious.
>
>Mr. Moran's evidnece that I don't have a problem with the JDL is...
>Oh I forgot, some Jews are terrorists, therefore all Jews are
>terrorists.  By the way, thanks for confirming that it has nothing to do
>with the Holocaust and is just another way to bash Jews.

	"Confirming it"? What and where would that be?
>
>Regards,
>
>Rich Green
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 20:43:06 PDT 1996
Article: 47561 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:31:54 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>> Then there is the clickable from the Nizkor site, "The Jewish
>> Defense League".
>
>The Zuendelsite, IHR web site, and CODOH web site are also clickable
>from the Nizkor site.  Do you also assume that we support them as
>well?  I think you must be confused, Mr. Moran, as to the meaning of
>an "other sites" page.  Let me try to explain:  it provides links to
>other sites.
>
>Hope this helps.

	Jamie, I notice you avoided comment on the solicited
clarification in the intro to the JDL declaration. The one about your
referrence to a photograph of Marc Lemire and your tacit disclaimer
against violence. What I think, is, Nizkor is trying to be cute by
employing an inverted suggestion. 

>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.

  Hate sites will be reported.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 20:43:07 PDT 1996
Article: 47562 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:32:18 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31d7d35c.261223@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d678b9.254137@news.pacificnet.net>  <31d6baab.17135776@news.pacificnet.net> <4r6h48$3ri@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU>
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rjg@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>The JDL is no ally of mine.
>What does this thread have to do with the historicity of the holocaust?
>Oh, I get it: it's another way to bash Jews.  Some Jews are terrorists,
>therefore all Jews are terrorists.
>Regards,
>Rich Green

	The JDL is plugged on Nizkor, accomodated a link, under
"anti-racist resources". Nizkor is a Holocasut promotional page. The
rest of your raving gets nothing. And I don't believe you have a
problem with the JDL. Its obvious your ethnocentrically insane. Thats
why you ask what the post had to do with the Holocaust, without
recognizing it yourself, which was obvious.
>
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 20:43:08 PDT 1996
Article: 47563 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor/JDL ready for "battle" against evil Christians
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:33:00 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 35
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:


>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

> Hate mail will be posted.
  Love mail to Jamie.


Dear Jamie,
	I've been reading your stuff on alt.rev. for a number of months
now. I find your style to be exquisite. You apparently are a person of
great learning. I find your arguments to be straight foward and
profound. Though I notice that sometimes you may tend to avoid most of
a post when you respond, I realize this is a good practice since there
are limits to the minds capability. I find you have a great sense of
humor, especially when you join in banter with those who are loyal to
your position. This is an effective ploy when a really tough question
comes up. Sometimes its better to avoid a question instead of taking a
chance on trying to bluff your way through. I am also impressed with
the way you just don't come back to a response if it poses a quandry
for your capacity.
	In spite of any justifiable omissions or evasions, I have noticed
that those neo-Nazi haters, like that Moran person and some others,
will post something that seems like it could be very incriminating to
your position and you or any of your friends do not respond at all. I
think this is a dire mistake. I don't think any post should be left to
go by unresponded to. You should say at least something, anything, but
don't just let it pass by. 

                                                            Love,
                                                            Tom Moran


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  1 20:43:09 PDT 1996
Article: 47564 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.io.org!winternet.com!n1ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ahhhh...incest is best for j*ws
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:33:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <31d7d393.315708@news.pacificnet.net>
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, tom moran wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 1996 13:01:50 -0700, Marty Kelley wrote:
>> 
>> >On 29 Jun 1996, one of the alleged human beings posting under the name 
>> >M Huber wrote:
>> >
>> >> The story begins....."Born with 3 birth defects--his stomach wall never 
>> >> closed completely, his lungs compressed by fluid and his diaphragm 
>> >> protruding through a tear in his abdominal wall--he has been in & out of 
>> >> hospitals for 15 of his 18 months of life and has had 10 surgeries...."
>> >> 
>> >> Little baby jacob STEINHAUER is the product of centuries of inbreeding. 
>> >> He may, however, be the savior of the havoc his people have been 
>> >> wreacking upon the rest of mankind for all of those centuries. Unless 
>> >> j*ws 
>> >> stop their barbaric, ritualistic behavior, there simply won't be any of 
>> >> them around.
>> 
>> 	Huber, you have some pretty good information. But cool it. You
>> want to swing the every day person. There are a myriad of mind sets
>> out there. Find the middle road. Venom in writing can scare people
>> away. Forget about insulting Hebrews. Just factual information is
>> enough and is what beats them most.
>
>You are a very amusing person, Mr. Moran!  I would suggest that you 
>attempt taking your own advice about presenting factual information!  By 
>the way, what parts of the Huber entity's post would you consider "good 
>information"?  The part where he/she/it ridicules the pain of a baby with 
>a severe medical problem, or the unsubstantiated claim that the medical 
>problem is the result of "incest," or the part (which I snipped) about 
>Jewish terror squads kidnapping Jews who are engaged to gentiles and 
>taking them to rabbis for re-education?

	Did I say anything about this post? Show me where. 
>
>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 11:14:41 PDT 1996
Article: 47700 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 13:19:49 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 171
Message-ID: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net>
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                The Best of Nizkor; 

              Hilary Ostrov representing,


Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
      			-----------

As you will see, there is no reason to post any of the stuff which
imspired Hilary to make comment.
 
	     		-----------

                 The Best of Nizkor

Example No.1, and then so on.

"Actually Tommie, there was a ZOG meeting that day, and all the
Nizkorites - including Mr. McVay - decided that in the interest of
conserving bandwidth (and not seeing any sign that you have mastered
the art of taming your rigii and noticing that you and Mr. Giwer are
becoming increasingly indistinguishable, so that - as in this
particular post - you appear to be talking only to yourself) we're
just going to ignore you.

However, since Mr. Katz was not able to attend the meeting, and hadn't
read our new secret protocols of responding to Tommie, he did respond.
And his response does bear repeating:"
                           ==============

"Poor Mr. Moran!  His rigii reading must be in a complete fog, and his
legal pad in total disarray."
                           ==============

"Let me explain what an "archive file" is, Mr. Moran.  On second
thoughts, no I won't.  You seem to need the practice using a
dictionary.  So look it up.  Perhaps then you will understand the
^^^^[1] reference above.

And if you ever succeeded in mastering the lessons I posted for you on
how to use your newsreader to copy an URL, you might want to make note
of the following which will make it very easy for you not to lose
track of your trail of lies in the future:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom"
                           ================

"Mr. Eideken, I believe we may be doing Mr. Moran (and perhaps his
alter-ego/echo-clone, Mr. Giwer) a grave disservice.  As the above
clearly indicates, Mr. Moran finds it exceedingly difficult to give
credence to the possibility that you might have visited a library
(perhaps because he himself has never spent any productive time in a
library).  The poor man keeps pleading for PHOTOS.
Btw, see if you can get the librarian to include a few PHOTOS of
"books" - as well as some simple instructions on how to read them."
                             ===============

"**Your new, improved ZOG decoder ring is en route and contains your
secret password for the code to decipher the password for access to
http://www.topsecret.zog.com/ where you will find his latest address. 

Posted and secretly e-mailed to Mr. Eideken"
                             ===============

"Actually, Mr. Van Alstine, as you and others have so cogently
demonstrated, Mr. Giwer *doesn't* have a leg to stand on.  Perhaps it
is time to create a new newsgroup where he and Mr. Moran can continue
to delude themselves: 

alt.PAR-from-the-PRIG (Pompous Arrogant Redundancy from the
Pontificating Ridiculously Ignorant Giwer)"
                             ================

"Please Mr. Moran, can you be a little more inspiring; so that maybe
Mr. Morris will post some more delicious recipes ... they have been
the most enlightening consequence of your posts in the past :>)"
                             ================

"Now Mr. Moran has shown that he can post a complete sentence without
a spelling error (although he has yet to master syntax and grammar),
perhaps he will learn how to go to a library (or a bookstore), read a
reference book and do his own homework."
                             ================

"Perhaps Mr. Moran's "powder" or that "monkey on his back" has
affected is recall of how to copy an URL from his NewsReader to his
Web browser.  The following excerpted repost is presented as a public
service:" 
                             ================

"From: A Lesson for Mr. Moran (Was Re: Where are the URLs?) - posted
to
alt.revisionism Dec. 1/95

	[To further assist Mr. Moran, I have amended the *explicits* to
inimize his confusion.  The amendments are indented and contained
within square brackets, just like this comment.]"
                             ===============

"Poor Li'l Tommy.  Looks like he's succumbed to Giwerundic paupacy.
Must be one of the tortable side effects of "freudian pasting"."
                           ===============

"Good advice to the "revisionists", though, Tommy.  But past
experience suggests that they are too hooked on their lies to be
*able* to refrain from the practice of "revisionism"."
                           ===============

Well, nice try Mr. McCarthy, but it doesn't seem to have helped.
You know for a while I thought I saw some signs of progress.  But now
it seems that Mr. Moran's progress is in remission (or maybe that
should be retransmission ... he's run this little gambit before,
hasn't he?!)  

I'll leave his brilliant little response attached.  It is somewhat
amusing in a way.  What _is_ this JDL declaration bit?! Doesn't he
think we have enough to do with Nizkor pages?!  Sheesh, he must think
we go all over the net creating pages for other people! 

He claims that Nizkor is engaging in "inverted suggestion."   I don't
think any of the web pages are upside down are they?  Or maybe he
thinks that because there is a *mirror* site on *eye.net* that there
must be an optical illusion somewhere - and he's just taken a stab in
the dark.  And he thinks our disclaimer is "tacit"!  Sheesh, you'd
think by now, he of all people would recognize an "explicit" when he
saw one!
                     ===================

TRANSLATION: Even though I do not have a shred of evidence to support
my ludicrous claims and "disbeliefs", I'm going to whine and complain
because people keep demanding that I provide proof of the claims I
make in my hate-filled fact-bereft anti-Semitic drivellous diatribes.
                     ====================

Mr. Thomas, I believe the appropriate expression here is
pot.kettle.black  

If the reader is somewhat puzzled by my so-called "personal attack", I
do believe that all will be quickly clarified - and indeed confirmed -
by a perusal of the extensive postings of Mr. Moran which can be found
at:
                     ===================

Hmmm ... so you believe this is a legitimate "term" and _not_ the
equivalent of name calling in the absence of any substantive facts.

I think we may have a very strong difference of opinion here, Mr.
Thomas.  Heavens, next thing I know you will be suggesting that I have
been engaging in tortable paupacies!
                    ====================

TRANSLATION: Even though I do not have a shred of evidence to support
my ludicrous claims and "disbeliefs", I'm going to whine and complain
because people keep demanding that I provide proof of the claims I
make in my hate-filled fact-bereft anti-Semitic drivellous diatribes.
                    ====================

Definitely _not_ on _Saturday_ morning, Mr. Kelley!  And if the
Lubavitch Hassidim were in  and they knocked on your
door on Sunday morning (or any other morning - or any part of any
other day, for that matter), they would do so _only_ if they saw a
mezuzzah on your doorpost.
                    ====================

Ah, I see that everyone's favourite "denier in search of a persona"
has now taken upon himself (in an indisputably "Testimentary" fashion)
the mantle of Doctor of Divinity.
                    ====================


http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/myssiwyg.html


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 13:07:54 PDT 1996
Article: 47740 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Between the lines
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:03:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31d90fee.1209009@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d2f7c9.22261157@news.pacificnet.net>  <31d6e947.1635282@news.pacificnet.net>
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

Commenting on the Jewish evangilist sect in comparison to Christians.

  "At least they don't come knocking on your door early on a Saturday
morning...)"


tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) responded:

	As to the Jewish sect's being called evangelistic, "Lubavitch
too? But I see you have made the other the more of the two evils, "At
least they don't ...", (Lubavitch, that is).

Its funny how the righteous accusers of neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism
slip up now and then.

>>
>>----------------------
>>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>>
>>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>>					--Mark Twain
>>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 13:07:55 PDT 1996
Article: 47742 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yet Another Ministry of Love
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:04:58 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <31d91007.1234494@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d68c7c.5312840@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	As to this portion of the report:

	"In one hallway, leading to a wall-size color photograph of a
stretch of railroad tracks going into Birkenau ... Bolted to the
ceiling are rail tracks, seeming to reflect the tracks running up to
the Birkenau gate. They are the actual tracks and ties ..., said
Ms.Leavey, who recalled being puzzled by this part of the exhibit and
observing to Mr.Hirsch (museum architect) that it did not make sense. 
	'His response was that neither did the Holocaust'.

	This is pretty funny. The witty brilliancy. The flash of genius.
This should go over big with any visitors. The goyims will love it.
Maybe Mr.Hirsch thinks it will have some subliminal controlling effect
on the visitors.
	His answer to why he dreamt up the idea doesn't do it. If he had
an answer we would have gotten something. It was just a flash of
witty. 

	I wonder what the workmen thought while they stood there with
Mr.Hirsch instructing them to put the tracks up on the ceiling.

	Can you see it? Some ol' Georgia boys standing their while
Mr.Hirsch tells em to put the tracks up on the ceiling. The ol'
Georgia boys looking at each other with their eyebrows cocked.
	While sitting around for lunch, one of em says to another,
"Goldarn, Clive, do you believe it? I can't wait to get home and tell
Bobby Joe about this one."  The other one responding, "Ya got that
right Clem, ol Bobby Joe will bust a gut."
	 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 13:07:56 PDT 1996
Article: 47745 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.texas.net!news-in.tiac.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:29:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31d6f08d.3498173@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cffa2b.5860058@news.pacificnet.net> <31d3df98.414189@news.pacificnet.net> <4r41gd$l3h@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  <30JUN199613150651@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>> 
>>Ah, but don't you see, Danny, that Mr. Moran knows that Jews only 
>>_appear_ to disagree in public--really, the disagreements and debates 
>>between vrious factions in organized (and disorganized!) Judaism and 
>>Jewish culture are just a smoke screen for what Mr. Moran knows is the 
>>real secret monolithic Jewish agenda.
>
>    Oh, right Marty.  I forgot.  What could I have been thinking...

	Just as I thought, before clicking up Mr.Mittleman's thread, I
"copied" my response to Mr.Kelley's bantor in anticipation
Mr.Mittleman would be following up.

(Repeat from another post)		
Ah yes, some inter Tom and Jerry bantor. I think these two guys,
Kelley and Mittleman post together at the same computer. They probably
think of stuff and bounce it off each other, giggling.
	I'm not sure, but I think they have some academic position, which
means, bye, bye American mind, deeper and deeper into the abyss of
mal-rationale.

	What was the original subject in this post anyway.

Oh yea, "ADL rabbi tries to weasel"

First statement, "Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no
right to talk about a mission to the Jews".

Second statement, "I did not say Christians were guilty of the
Holocaust. What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times ..."

>
>Ah, but don't you see, Danny, that Mr. Moran knows that Jews only 
>_appear_ to disagree in public--really, the disagreements and debates 
>between vrious factions in organized (and disorganized!) Judaism and 
>Jewish culture are just a smoke screen for what Mr. Moran knows is the 
>real secret monolithic Jewish agenda.
>
>----------------------
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 18:31:27 PDT 1996
Article: 47817 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!world1.bawave.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:19:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <31d91266.1841360@news.pacificnet.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>    BEHOLD THE LIE: Historians have never claimed that 4,000m000 people
>    were exterminated at Auschwitz.  Note that Tommy does not provide
>    historical citations for his claim - he never does when he reposts this
>    drivel.
>    BEHOLD THE LIE: Tommy is presenting this paragraph out of context.  In
>    context at SWC it clearly is among a list of questions posed by
>    deniers.  What Tommy prints here is the denier question verbatim.  
>    What Tommy does not print is the response to the question which
>    explains that the count of deaths at Auschwitz has always be estimated
>    by historians to be in the range of one million or so (actually 800,000
>    to 1,500,000 in different studies.)
>
>    You get the point.  The rest of Tommy's lies are deleted.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 

	So far what we have is, Moran's posting of thirty examples to
show the lie and Mr.Mittleman's saying it is all a lie.


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 18:31:28 PDT 1996
Article: 47824 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OOH - WEE
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:48:33 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31d9199a.3684808@news.pacificnet.net>
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Mr.Mittleman: 
>>    You are just blowing smoke, Tommy.  You are unable to satisfactorally
>>    answer these questions above.
Moran:
>	Why do you ask? Are you saying these camps were extermination
>centers. 

	 Mr.Mittleman? 
                     -------------------------

>>>	Just a little while ago Nizkor celebrated its Happy 100 Megabyte
>>>milestone. It looks like the time may come when they will being
>>>celebrating their Happy 100 Gigabyte moment.
>>
>>    Well, that is well down the road, but I imagine it will come someday. 
>>    As more graphics are stored at Nizkor the database should gain size.
>
>	"Graphics"? Where do graphics fit in? They just take up peoples
>time. If you use Comp U Serve it could cost you 10 dollars just
>waiting for them. You couldn't mean 'photographics' could you? No,
>that wouldn't be it. Any Holocaust photographs tend to deny the story
>than confirm it.
>	Could you elaborate a bit more on these "graphics", Mr.Mittleman?
>
	Mr.Mittleman?



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 18:31:29 PDT 1996
Article: 47826 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Coming soon to a newsgroup near you"
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 13:20:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31d92201.5836660@news.pacificnet.net>
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	Moran had posted "The Best of Nizkor". A list of examples of
Hilary Ostrov's finest material. Hilary came back with something
witty. Moran challenged:

	"Hilary, why don't you post something like 'The Best 	
	of Moran' like I do to list your capacities? Go for it, Hilary."

	Hilary came back with:

	"In Message-ID: <31a70964.983541@news.pacificnet.net> the denier
in search of a persona hurled the gauntlet onto the table:"

From: hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Tommy's Invite Accepted
Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:24:47 GMT

	Continuing, Hilary with grandiose bravado claims she is going to
deliver: 	

"Why, thank you Li'l Tommy.  I'm kind of busy right now working out
the details for shipping the latest and greatest ZOG decoder rings
(Yale, yours should be the first one to arrive.  Once I've perfected
that, I know the others will be a piece of cake).  Probably won't take
me more than a few days, though.  And just as soon as I've got it
finished, I'll get right to work on this.

"Coming soon to a newsreader near you:  The Morphing of Tom Moran:  a
brief history of his evolution from passive deluded denier to active
(but inept) deluding distortionist."

	So we had Hilary announcing, "Coming soon to a newsreader near
you" which she had mentioned would be in a "few days".

	Which was over a month ago.

	The reality is that the only thing Hilary has done is to go on
and post more examples, now included under the repost of "The Best of
Nizkor".	

=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  2 18:31:30 PDT 1996
Article: 47829 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Remember the Children"
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:26:02 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31d913fe.2249453@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net> <1JUL199620395531@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	"Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted
>>around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It
>>is displayed on the inside and on the outside.
>
>    When did you visit the Museum?

	August '93. On a Thursday I visited it at about 4:00 PM and had
to leave around 5:00 when it closed. The next day around 10:00 AM I
returned and left around 1:00 PM. I spent about 1/2 an hour
interviewing the staff. This was when I found out that the trash bins
were emptied about every twenty minutes or so, to make sure no one saw
how many of the little card bios of alleged victims were thrown away,
on the spot. Check them out next time you go there.

	Do you have anything to say about the post directly?
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 07:38:12 PDT 1996
Article: 47872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.netrail.net!news1.n2n.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Christians 'take it like a man'
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 02:10:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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	Over the last two years or so there have been a number of
articles in the N.Y. and L.A. Times about Biblical revisionism. There
also has been a couple sizable aticles in TIME Magazine, given front
cover attention.
	The articles have been basically reports on conferences and such,
attended by scholars, and the dogmas challenged have ranged from did
Christ do this , or did he do that, was he really the son of god.

	Now if there has been any wailing and snarling of terms like
'anti-Christianism' I don't recall seeing any reports. Nor do I recall
seeing anyone out to have any conferences banned.
 
	Now theres something noticably different with all this.

	Here we have challenges to the very heart of a global religion
and nary a uproar, but when it comes to challenging the Holocaust
story - "ANTI-SEMITISM - NEO NAZI - BIGOT - RACIST" - and other
naughty accusations. 

	 



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 07:38:13 PDT 1996
Article: 47878 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 12:02:48 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <31d90fc8.1171440@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31cffa2b.5860058@news.pacificnet.net> <31d3df98.414189@news.pacificnet.net> <4r41gd$l3h@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <31d6894c.4496929@news.pacificnet.net> <30JUN199612283218@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ea6e.1930943@news.pacificnet.net> <4r8u01$5kq@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>
>: 	Here, see if you can make a relationship with the following names
>: as to what we are talking about.
>: 
>: Henry Ford
>
>American industrialist and addle-pated antisemite.  Bought the phony
>"Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" hook, line and sinker.  Believer
>in various popular forms of spiritualist bunkum.
>
>: Nietsche
>
>Misspelled German philosopher.  Considered antisemitism a disease.
>
>: John Lennon
>
>Dead Beatle
>
>: Martin Luther
>
>Leader of the Reformation.  Virulent antisemite and all-around sourpuss.
>
>: Charles Dickenson
>
>Illegitimate son of Charles Dickens and Emily Dickenson.
>
>: William Shakespeare
>
>Correctly-spelled English playwright, possibly a pen name for Edward
>de Vere, Earl of Oxford.  Created the character of Shylock, mixing
>popular prejudice with empathy.  Probably never met a Jew, as there
>were very few in England in his day.
>
>: Thomas Edison
>
>American inventor.  Electrocuted dogs.  Created the technology which
>eventually gave rise to Bertie Higgins.
>
>Hmm.  Relationship.  Let's see, now...
>
>Oh!  I know!  They're all about to have their lives and ideas distorted
>by a half-bright anti-semitic fool?
>
>What did I win?
>
>Bill

	All genius, all deemed "anti-Semitic". Including Nietsche.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 07:38:14 PDT 1996
Article: 47964 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: - Birkenau Map w/ kitchens.jpg (0/2) Re: Sleep with dogs, get fleas
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:59:18 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31d9a868.2051503@news.pacificnet.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>
>Why the repost, Moran? Did you perhaps not see my origional post? Did you
>not read the e-mail I sent you? Oh, well. I'll simply repost my  reply...


	I never read your e-mail. Most of the time I don't bother to read
whatever you post. Didn't I tell you this once before? Didn't I tell
you not to send me anymore e-mail? Why do you waste the resources?
Maybe you think it makes me mad, or you intend it to make me mad, when
in fact all I do is hit with my fly swatter and drop it in the trash.
You send, I trash it. It's Easy.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 10:06:06 PDT 1996
Article: 47977 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!nntp.netrex.net!news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OOH - WEE
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 1996 22:44:01 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31d9a5f0.1419536@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net> <29JUN199613343366@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ff5e.7290579@news.pacificnet.net> <31d9199a.3684808@news.pacificnet.net> <2JUL199607210046@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d9199a.3684808@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>Mr.Mittleman: 
>>>>    You are just blowing smoke, Tommy.  You are unable to satisfactorally
>>>>    answer these questions above.
>>Moran:
>>>	Why do you ask? Are you saying these camps were extermination
>>>centers. 
>
>    No, I am saying that historians have not changed their view as to
>    whether those camps were extermination camps.  Your post intimated that
>    they had.

	Tricky wording. So you are saying it never was said to have been
an extermination camp?
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 10:06:07 PDT 1996
Article: 47986 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Christians 'take it like a man'
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 15:06:29 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31da8ad7.2378911@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d9d63d.9319838@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

As to this paragraph,

>	Now if there has been any wailing and snarling of terms like
>'anti-Christianism' I don't recall seeing any reports. Nor do I recall
>seeing anyone out to have any conferences banned.

	a Mr.Edeiken has offered up his evidence that it is incorrect:

"Then read a little bit.  There is a copy of *Time* magazine on my 
coffee table where those exact charges were made against the "Jesus
group."

	What exact words he doesn't say. If it is whatever he says, it is
one example. With those who are so reliant on the Holocaust story to
advance themselves - there are hundreds - thousands even - maybe a
million examples of how it is an act of "hate", "anti-Semitism",
"neo-Nazism" etc. Who knows how many times? It's alot.
	I believe this Mr.Edeiken has committed himself to it billions of
times.
	 
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 15:06:25 PDT 1996
Article: 47995 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Red Cross inspections of Auschwitz (was Re: Anne Frank)
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:53:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31da894b.1983451@news.pacificnet.net>
References:  <31d4956b.7375548@news.pacificnet.net> 
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>
>Nope. Someone's very stupid. Like you Moran. The ICRC didn't visit
>Birkenau. Ever. Dr. Grawitz, the head of the German Red Cross _may_ have
>visited it with Eichmann. (He _did_ inspect Birkenau, in his capacity as
>SS Chief Physician, in 1942.) You know, SS Chief Physician
>SS-Obergruppenfu"hrer Grawitz, the guy who recommended to Himmler that gas
>chambers be used to exterminate the Jews in the Final Solution? 
>
>Any _other_ stupid questions, Moran? 

	Nope.
>
>Mark
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 15:06:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48009 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:34:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 2
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

				
	The Holocaust promotional network's pet word.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 15:06:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48011 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!pipex-sa.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Evil Canada
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 16:14:29 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Message-ID: <31da9c62.6870733@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
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=====================================================================
       Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't) Accept
=====================================================================

"During the twelve years of Nazi terror, from 1933 to 1945, while the
United States accepted more than 200,000 Jewish refuges; Palestine,
125,000; embattled Britain, 70,000; Argentina, 50,000; penurious
Brazil, 27,000; distant China, 25,000; tiny Bolivia and Chile, 14,000
each, Canada found room for fewer than 5,000."

Excerpted from....----------------------------------------------
NONE IS TOO MANY, Irving Abella and Harold Troper, Toronto, 1982
ISBD 0-919630-31-6.     (Canada & The Jews of Europe, 1933-1948)
---------------------------------------------------------   p. x

	This is pretty humorous "Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't)
Accept". Idiotic really.   




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 15:06:27 PDT 1996
Article: 48014 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: And/Or Numbers
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 16:14:15 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <31da9898.5900702@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
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	From Nizkor:

	

=====================================================================
              Numbers of Gassed Victims
=====================================================================

From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1992

In article  gmartin@b-cpu.UUCP (George
Martin) writes:

>NONE were gassed to death.  Some were shot, but not in any number
>approaching "millions."

Wrong. Millions were gassed (either with carbon monoxide or with
hydrogen cyanide, released from "Zyklon-B"). Others were shot or
starved to death.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusions of the Anglo-American committee for studying the Nazi
genocide inflicted on the Jews of Europe, with exact breakdown,
country by country:

Numbers of missing Jews (post-war minus pre-war):

[Nizkor]                          [Wiesenthal]

Germany -        195,000			141,500		
Austria -        53,000			50,000
Czechoslovakia - 255,000			No listing
Denmark -        1,500			60
France -         140,000			77,320
Belgium -        57,000			28,000
Luxemburg -      3,000			1,950
Norway -         1,000			762
Holland -        120,000			No listing
Italy -          20,000			7,680
Jugoslavia -     64,000			63,000
Greece -         64,000			67,000
Bulgaria -       5,000			0--0.0%
Rumania -        530,000			287,000
Hungary -        200,000			569,000
Poland -         3,271,000		3,000,000
USSR -           1,050,000		1,100,000

Latvia		  No listing		71,000
Lithuania        No listing		143,000
Slovakia         No listing		71,000
Finland          No listing		7

The moon         No listing        No listing
Mars             No listing		No listing
Uranus           No listing		6,000,000,000,001
 
Less dispersed refugees (308,000)

Total number of Jews that were exterminated = 5,721,500.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Some estimates are lower, some are higher, but this is the magnitude
in question. In a recent article in CMU's student newspaper, the head
of CMU's History Department, Peter Stearns, is quoted as saying that
newly discovered documents - especially in the former USSR - indicate
that the number of victims is higher than 6 million.

About 6 million non-Jewish civilians were killed by the Nazis - mostly
in Poland and Yugoslavia. Many of them died in labor camps inside
Germany.

-Danny Keren.



.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 16:42:34 PDT 1996
Article: 48031 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.his.com!news.walltech.com!samba.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 15:45:09 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 124
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	Presented by Nizkor:

                          Jerusalem One

=======================================================================
   Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One
=======================================================================

Shalom to all

Our generation looks at today's world with a look of wonder and fear.
Words and actions we believed were gone from the world, exterminated
once and for all by world culture, become taboo by force of experience
and logic - are alive and growing again.

The reemergence of racism, neo-nazism and neo-fascism is all around
us. It wears many different costumes it calls itself in many different
names, and it speaks many different languages. It sometimes even takes
on the appearance of liberal thought and world peace. It breaks out
sometimes among the most un-looked for areas, in progressive political
parties, in governments, even in our beloved United Nations - but the
codes it uses are always the same - purity, pride, strength, "unity",
sacrifice, to name just a few.

Words, as we all know, have power that rival the most terrible
weapons. Today's believers in hate will say the most astounding things
and feel that they can sway "stupid" and unsophisticated people into
believing their way.

The Jewish People, who went through the European Holocaust find
themselves in awe at these deeds and actions, possibly more than any
other people - and for that reason, Jerusalem One sees as one of it's
duties to do all it can to fight back. The hatred of the Jewish people
is abound everywhere. Some say, without shame that the Jews must be
destroyed. Some will say that they are "only" anti-Israel and this has
become the modern anti-semitism of many "progressive" forces, as we
can see almost daily, for instance, inside the United Nations.

Jerusalem One, together with the Jewish People, feel dismayed at the
strength of the racist attitudes against all other peoples, against
Blacks, Asians, Latin-Americans, Indians and all other peoples. The
Jewish People feel that the harm done to them by haters, fascists, and
Nazis of the past could be worth the sacrifice, if only to serve to
bring about the end of such crimes. It is because of this that we fear
that present growth of neo-fascist forces will bring all we have
suffered to waste.

There are those who have written to Jerusalem One and accused our
archives on the Holocaust to be giving a reason for neo-nazis to grow,
as if forgetting about the Holocaust is the solution. We believe
differently. We believe that unsuspecting people must realize that
these people are dangerous - not only for the minorities that they
hate - but to the very Human Race - that if they are allowed to take
us down that long dark and evil road *again* - the Human Race may
never come out of it and will seal it's doom.

The Special directory we have allotted on the Main Menu of the
Jerusalem One Gopher currently consists of three main sub-directories:



The Holocaust Archives:

These archives consist of years of activity on the Usenet list
alt.revisionism managed by Ken Mcvay. Ken, a non-Jew from Canada was
the first user on Internet to be astounded by the cynical use of
Internet by Neo-Fascists and those who would have us believe that the
German Nazis and it's allies never killed "that many Jews and
minorities" - and to have done something about it.

Although Ken is "just" a normal person with humble means, he, and
other users who have joined his efforts have brought to public access
thousands of factual documents and files showing the shallow arguments
of Neo-Fascists to be what they are - blatant LIES. It should be noted
that the work of Ken and others stand, almost by themselves, to stem
the exploitation of the openness of Internet of evil forces without
any help from those organizations who should be doing the job.

Jerusalem One has taken these files and endeavored to bring them to
public access in a concise, systematic manner. These files are
available to all those who wish to read and learn and/or to use in
this struggle.



The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers

This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to
bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects
along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their
students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone
who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies.



Modern Neo-Fascism

These archives deal with the reemergence of Neo-Fascist and Nazi
groups around the world. They are their as testament to all what these
groups really are and say, so as not to be taken in under the
propaganda they use in order to entice new members. Many of these
files are straight print-outs from newspapers and statements from the
groups themselves. Also included are studies done by experts in this
field.


How Can I Help?

If you or yoour organization is interested in supplying informatin
which you believe can help us help bring an end to Fascism and hate -
please contact the email address below:

Zvi Lando                              Email: lando@jer1.co.il
Jerusalem One Network Manager          Fax: 9722 964588
Ben-Labrat St. 6                       Phone: 9722 662242
Jerusalem, Israel                      Phone: 9722 662232





.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 16:42:34 PDT 1996
Article: 48033 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!info.usuhs.mil!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 15:52:25 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <31da9615.5257091@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Nizkor also has a link to "N.J. Commission on Holocaust
Education" which is not available at the moment. We will just have to
wait for this one. I recall there being some resistance to this
reported, with one of the resistance movement citing some new figures
of 5,000,000 Jewish victims being put forth, and a Jew bluster
demanding that they should leave it at 6,000,000 anyway.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 16:42:35 PDT 1996
Article: 48036 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JDL, Terrorists
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:34:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31da841d.657452@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4ra1ot$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4raj2e$ae6@access1.digex.net> <4raqv9$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <4rcvl0$fge@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>
>>In article <4raqv9$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
>>> mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>>> 
>>> >In article <4ra1ot$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >>      From their own website...
>>> >>
>>> >>[snip]
>>> >>
>>> >>The sources for the philosophy and actions of the Jewish Defense League
>>> >>are Jewish sources. 
>>> >>
>>> >>      Don't bother calling me antisemitic for pointing out their own words
>>> >>from their own site.  We all know that it what it is.
>>> 
>>> >    Yes.  Off-topic.  I thought you wanted to get this newsgroup back on
>>> >track?


	"Off topic". Thats the new thing Stein is trying. Green is on to
this "off topic" topic also. It so rediculous. Typical. The usual. 
	The facts are Nizkor and all the rest of their amen corner, or
vice versa are obsessed with "hate" groups.
	These persons would like to play a game. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 16:42:36 PDT 1996
Article: 48042 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: OOH - WEE
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:42:24 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <31da858c.1024625@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d53806.5368094@news.pacificnet.net> <29JUN199613343366@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31d6ff5e.7290579@news.pacificnet.net> <31d9a5f0.1419536@news.pacificnet.net> <2JUL199621514261@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-10.pacificnet.net
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>    Which camps are we talking about now?  I've forgotton and you have
>    removed it from the conversation stream.  When you tell me the camp, I
>    will need to research the answer.  Other than Auschwitz, I don't have
>    too many of the camps memorized.  But your initial post stated that the
>    status of two camps changed recently.  I asked you for evidence of a
>    change.  You have since played lots of word games but have not provided
>    any evidence to support your initial assertion.  Which is status quo
>    for you.

	He says he has forgotten what camps we're talking about. All he
had to do is look back through the thread, a short work. "Other than
Auschwitz" he doesn't have too many of the camps memorized. 
	He says I have "played lots of word games". No further comment
than to ionvite anyone reading this to review the thread to see who is
playing games.
	Enough of you Mr.Mittleman. All you can remember is Auschwitz.  
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 19:42:35 PDT 1996
Article: 48077 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!blanket.mitre.org!news.tufts.edu!nntp.uac.net!usenet.logical.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Coming soon to a newsgroup near you"
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 14:35:02 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31da8513.903351@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d92201.5836660@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


>"Why, thank you Li'l Tommy.  I'm kind of busy right now working out
>the details for shipping the latest and greatest ZOG decoder rings
>(Yale, yours should be the first one to arrive.  Once I've perfected
>that, I know the others will be a piece of cake).  Probably won't take
>me more than a few days, though.  And just as soon as I've got it
>finished, I'll get right to work on this.

	Above, Hilary mentions she is "working out the details for
shipping", the latest ZOG decoder rings. She then interjects that she
is going to send the first off to someone, and then once she has
"perfected that" the rest should be "a piece of cake".

	Whats to perfect? Was it getting the little lid on the box, or
what?


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul  3 19:42:36 PDT 1996
Article: 48079 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust final exam
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:11:54 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <31dae1ff.2002675@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


Question:
	The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
is:

	A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?

	B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
money. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 07:44:15 PDT 1996
Article: 48123 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And/Or Numbers
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 20:54:49 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <31daddb4.903626@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da9898.5900702@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.48
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Not explained at the head of the above main article is, that the
main list ("Nizkor") and commentary was given by D.Keren in response
to a Mr.Martin back in 1992. 

	The figures for the Wiesenthal Center, I added.

	I believe some other lists may have the numbers for the moon.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 07:44:16 PDT 1996
Article: 48211 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:11:11 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <31dbd077.2696158@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
Tom Moran had written:	

>>Question:
>>	The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
>>is:


>>	A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?
>
>>	B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
>>money. 

	hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) responded:

>The correct wording of the question is:
>
>The reason Tom Moran is so avid in recycling his drivel and lies is:
>
>	A:  So that the world will know what a horribly bigotted and malicious
>anti-Semitic twit he is?
>
>	B: To prove he can cut and paste, demonstrate his ignorance and waste
>bandwidth?
>
>	C: Both of the above?
>
>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 11:53:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48246 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:19 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <31dbfd7e.3653171@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

Paragraphs 8, 9 and 10.
>The Special directory we have allotted on the Main Menu of the
>Jerusalem One Gopher currently consists of three main sub-directories:

>The Holocaust Archives:
>
>These archives consist of years of activity on the Usenet list
>alt.revisionism managed by Ken Mcvay. Ken, a non-Jew from Canada was
>the first user on Internet to be astounded by the cynical use of
>Internet by Neo-Fascists and those who would have us believe that the
>German Nazis and it's allies never killed "that many Jews and
>minorities" - and to have done something about it.

	Pointing out that Ken McVay is a "non-Jew". 'See, it's not only
the Jews who are active in pressing the Holocaust story.' Okay, they
have McVay.   

>Although Ken is "just" a normal person with humble means, he, and
>other users who have joined his efforts have brought to public access
>thousands of factual documents and files showing the shallow arguments
>of Neo-Fascists to be what they are - blatant LIES. It should be noted
>that the work of Ken and others stand, almost by themselves, to stem
>the exploitation of the openness of Internet of evil forces without
>any help from those organizations who should be doing the job.

	This is the stinkiest paragraph here. This idiot there in
Jeruselem saying how McVay and others are out to stem the
"exploitation of the openess of Internet of evil forces" - - "without
any help from those organizations who should be doing the job".
	This bird brain over there in Jeruselem is talking about servers,
the U.S. Congress and any other agency that can bring pressure to bear
to halt anything the Jews deem to be hateful.

	Jeruselm One should stay out of our buisness. We don't need their
Zionist practices over here any more than what we have already.

	The facts are, not only can it be shown that nothing good for the
us or the World has ever come from our support for the Jewish state,
but that the only thing that could be shown is that it has been a
disaster for the U.S., and the World. 
	All they have are words and nothing else.




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 13:42:44 PDT 1996
Article: 48254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:02 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <31dbfd4a.3601212@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Some accompaning commentary.


				
>	Presented by Nizkor:
>
>                          Jerusalem One
>
>=======================================================================
>   Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One
>=======================================================================
>
>Shalom to all

	"Shalom".  This word can be directed to you after a discussion,
even when the bidder of the word is irate with your stance. It comes
across more like a groaning shalom than a musical shalom. It can be
employed in a such a way to try and 'put you on the spot'. 




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 13:42:45 PDT 1996
Article: 48255 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:15 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31dbfd71.3640703@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

 Paragraph 6

>There are those who have written to Jerusalem One and accused our
>archives on the Holocaust to be giving a reason for neo-nazis to grow,
>as if forgetting about the Holocaust is the solution. We believe
>differently. We believe that unsuspecting people must realize that
>these people are dangerous - not only for the minorities that they
>hate - but to the very Human Race - that if they are allowed to take
>us down that long dark and evil road *again* - the Human Race may
>never come out of it and will seal it's doom.

	One could imagine that those who "have written" were Jews. There
are Jews who think or recognize that the high saturation of
Holocaustery is like 'crying wolf ten thousand times too often'. Here
we have this person telling us the reason they push the Holocaust to
the brink is to teach the world the horrors of bigotry, when the
evidence shows the Jews press the Holocaust as a means for extorting
influence and money. 
	Considering the accent on "again" - "*again*", from "Never
again", we have to assume when this Jeruselem One continues "the Human
Race may never come out of it and will seal it's doom" they are
talking about their own history, and that they will act to destroy the
whole world if things get out of hand. Screw with us and "seal the
doom" of the whole world.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 13:42:46 PDT 1996
Article: 48256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Push, push, push
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:31:22 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <31dbfe0c.3795921@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608115015@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>     	"Hungary to Compensate Jews for Wartime Losses"
>>                    N.Y.Times, July 4, 1996
>
>    Thanks for the quick work.  You have this posted even before I got out
>    of bed this morning.

	Every day Mr.Mittleman's body gets out of bed, and then proceeds
to sleep walk all day.

>    Well, with all the denier disinformation going around it is not
>    surprising you are confused.
>
>>	The article tells us there are 20,000 "survivors" out of the
>>100,000 remaining. Seeing how it is now 1996, 50 years after the the
>>dubious facts, we have 1/5 of those remaining today being "survivors".
>
>    Not surprising since most of the survivors would have been teens or
>    young adults in 1945.  The older population was put to death for the
>    most part.

	Mr.Mittleman says it was only the older population that was sent
to Auschwitz and only the teenagers were left behind.

	Back to bed Mr.Mittleman.  

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 15:33:22 PDT 1996
Article: 48278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!news.cps.udayton.edu!news.conterra.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And/Or Numbers
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 14:02:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31dbceef.2303938@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da9898.5900702@news.pacificnet.net> <31daddb4.903626@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199622231073@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31daddb4.903626@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>	Not explained at the head of the above main article is, that the
>>main list ("Nizkor") and commentary was given by D.Keren in response
>>to a Mr.Martin back in 1992. 
>> 
>>	The figures for the Wiesenthal Center, I added.
>> 
>>	I believe some other lists may have the numbers for the moon.
>
>    Yeah, we noticed you added your anus to the post.
>
>    Also not explained is that George Martin turned out to be a nom de
>    plume for Dan Gannon.

	Relevancy?
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 15:33:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48285 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!info.usuhs.mil!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Push, push, push
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 13:50:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-15.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

	
     	"Hungary to Compensate Jews for Wartime Losses"
                    N.Y.Times, July 4, 1996

	The Government has agreed to compensate the Jewish community for
property seized during WWII, a Jewish leader said today.
	'This is a landmark agreement, a big step forward', said Gusztav
Zoltai, head of the Hungarian Jewish Communities.
	More than 600,000 of the million Jews who lived in Hungary before
WWII were killed in the Holocasut. Today there are about 100,000 Jews
in Hungary, including 20,000 Holocaust survivors.
	....
	The agreement establishes a Hungarian Jewish Heritage Foundation
to manage the assets, ... plus 26 million dollars .... $$$$$$$$$$
	Establishment of the foundation is subject to confirmation by
Parliment, ... The agreement does not foresee direct restitution of
property even if owners or decendants can be found, ..."


	Well, 600,000 Jews killed? Well, sometimes its 500,000, and
sometimes is 400,000, and sometimes 200,000.

	The article tells us there are 20,000 "survivors" out of the
100,000 remaining. Seeing how it is now 1996, 50 years after the the
dubious facts, we have 1/5 of those remaining today being "survivors".

	It doesn't seem to have gone all that well for the Jews
negotiating. No property is to be part of the deal and Parliment still
has to vote on whatever was discussed. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 15:33:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48287 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 13:50:41 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
>>HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
>
>    Tom Moran's manifesto.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"

	Actually, Mr.Mittleman has just made a funny on the title of the
article. What he didn't respond to was the message:

"The Holocaust promotional network's pet word."

What could be done is to do a rough survey on how many times the word
hate comes up in Nizkor files and we could suggest HATE is, in fact,
one of their pet words.

Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are
"Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how
Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 19:55:08 PDT 1996
Article: 48332 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:08 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>				
>	Presented by Nizkor:
>
>                          Jerusalem One
>
>=======================================================================
>   Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One
>=======================================================================
Paragraph 4.

>The Jewish People, who went through the European Holocaust find
>themselves in awe at these deeds and actions, possibly more than any
>other people - and for that reason, Jerusalem One sees as one of it's
>duties to do all it can to fight back. The hatred of the Jewish people
>is abound everywhere. Some say, without shame that the Jews must be
>destroyed. Some will say that they are "only" anti-Israel and this has
>become the modern anti-semitism of many "progressive" forces, as we
>can see almost daily, for instance, inside the United Nations.

	"The hatred of the Jewish people is abound everywhere". If this
is so, one should wonder, omitting any moral judgement for now, why is
this?  "Everywhere"?
	Here we get our first taste of 'He who hates Israel policies is
an anti-Semite'. This is an unwritten code in the U.S.
     Again we have this referrence to the U.N. What Jeruselem One is
referring to here is the many U.N. resolutions condemning Zionist
practices and policies. What the Jews do is, spit in the face of this
world body and then tell us its this world body who are corrupt. Its
hail the U.N. when they make any resolutions against their enemies,
like Iraq, but when it comes to any resolutions for the rights of the
Palestinians, say, it's the evil U.N.      


 5.
>Jerusalem One, together with the Jewish People, feel dismayed at the
>strength of the racist attitudes against all other peoples, against
>Blacks, Asians, Latin-Americans, Indians and all other peoples. The
>Jewish People feel that the harm done to them by haters, fascists, and
>Nazis of the past could be worth the sacrifice, if only to serve to
>bring about the end of such crimes. It is because of this that we fear
>that present growth of neo-fascist forces will bring all we have
>suffered to waste.

	There is no doubt about it, the Jews spend an aweful lot of
energy in supressing any negative views of Israel from the American
scene. This we could assume would apply to any rights of "Blacks,
Asians, Latin-Americans, Indians and other people" to say anything
negative about Israel.
	The Jews are obsessed with getting the U.S. to give billions upon
billions to the Jewish state of Israel and their "Holocaust
survivors". This has nothing to do with the welfare of those that are
referred to here. In fact it follows that for every dollar the Jews
push to get for their own benefit is that much which doesn't go to the
needs of those this paper feigns to care for. Thousands of letters to
the editor, columns and articles written by Jews on Jewish things
supresses any evidence they could show to prove they are concerned for
anyone else. 
	Whenever these propagandist for Israel refer to the indingent of
the world, which is focused on Americans here, they omit the
Palestinian. For the Palestinians they would have us accept their
standard 'exclusion principle', 'oh that's a different story', oh
that's okay.
	The media channels mentioned above have a overwhelming record of
this. Jews for Jews, feigning concern for others, when in fact the
realities challenge their words. All talk, no substance. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul  4 19:55:09 PDT 1996
Article: 48334 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:04 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>				
>	Presented by Nizkor:
>
>                          Jerusalem One
>
>=======================================================================
>   Introduction to the "Fight Against Hate" Gopher On Jerusalem One
>=======================================================================

Paragraph 1.

>Our generation looks at today's world with a look of wonder and fear.
>Words and actions we believed were gone from the world, exterminated
>once and for all by world culture, become taboo by force of experience
>and logic - are alive and growing again.

2.

>The reemergence of racism, neo-nazism and neo-fascism is all around
>us. It wears many different costumes it calls itself in many different
>names, and it speaks many different languages. It sometimes even takes
>on the appearance of liberal thought and world peace. It breaks out
>sometimes among the most un-looked for areas, in progressive political
>parties, in governments, even in our beloved United Nations - but the
>codes it uses are always the same - purity, pride, strength, "unity",
>sacrifice, to name just a few.

	It would be appropriate for Jeruselem One to give some examples
and names of these racist, neo-Nazi, neo-Facist manifistations.
"Liberal thought" is the enemy too. Even in "our beloved U.N."? We'll
find out about that later down.
	"Purity, pride, strength, 'unity', sacrifice," are "code" words
for this enemy, "to name just a few". Well that doesn't give us any
information on who and/or exactly what Jeruselem One is talking about.

I wonder if any of these concepts are expressed by Zionism?

 3.
>Words, as we all know, have power that rival the most terrible
>weapons. Today's believers in hate will say the most astounding things
>and feel that they can sway "stupid" and unsophisticated people into
>believing their way.

	Now "Words, as we all know, have power that rival the most
powerful weapons". Now thats a statement. "Neo-Nazi" and
"anti-Semitic" are words that are used quite liberally to gain
aquiescence for the sole sake of a special interests.
	Actually the most hate I've ever witnessed is that expressed
against Israel's enemies, right in our daily medias, daily. To make a
point of this, all one would have to do is present some examples and
reverse the words, Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians, Catholics and/or
Christians with the word(s) Jewish, Zionism, Israel and we would be
hearing wailing to no end.





From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 06:39:42 PDT 1996
Article: 48377 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 17:21:22 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

Paragraphs 11, 12 and 13.

>The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers
>
>This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to
>bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects
>along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their
>students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone
>who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies.

	Who do these people think they are getting involved with the
American education system? These are the same people who committ
themselves to closing down Palestinian schools and universities. Their
only motive is to introduce Zionist propaganda into our education
systems. And here we have this element being accomodated by this goofy
Nizkor and it's evident idiotic staff of McVay, McCarthy and Hilary,
and the phantom directors that finance the site.  

>Modern Neo-Fascism
>
>These archives deal with the reemergence of Neo-Fascist and Nazi
>groups around the world. They are their as testament to all what these
>groups really are and say, so as not to be taken in under the
>propaganda they use in order to entice new members. Many of these
>files are straight print-outs from newspapers and statements from the
>groups themselves. Also included are studies done by experts in this
>field.

	In the end they try to sell us on their rhetoric by citing that
their archives are "Straight from print-outs of news papers" and
"studies done by experts in this field". Some of these experts would
be the likes of the ADL, American Jewish Committee, American Jewish
Congress and any goyem lackies.
 
>How Can I Help?
>
>If you or yoour organization is interested in supplying informatin
>which you believe can help us help bring an end to Fascism and hate -
>please contact the email address below:

	The fact is, other than having governmental persons submitting to
the pushy, bluster demands of the Jews, they are in it alone. Very
few, if any goyem organizations are actively involved in supporting or
endorsing any of their crap. The only thing they get is cowtowing from
persons out to save their own positions so as not have the Jews
conspire to unseat them. No one knows it more than the Jews
themselves.

	Jeruselem One, located in the land that shoots down children,
routs whole populations of civilians, bombs their camps, their
villages, spits at the U.N., and then has a myriad in their "amen
corner" here in the U.S. getting their stuff into the major medias
telling us how right it all is.

>Zvi Lando                              Email: lando@jer1.co.il
>Jerusalem One Network Manager          Fax: 9722 964588
>Ben-Labrat St. 6                       Phone: 9722 662242
>Jerusalem, Israel                      Phone: 9722 662232
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 10:03:32 PDT 1996
Article: 48438 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Remember the Children"
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:25:36 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>
>>In article <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>	
>>>	"Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted
>>>around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It
>>>is displayed on the inside and on the outside.

Mittleman:
>>    When did you visit the Museum?


Moran:
>	August '93. On a Thursday I visited it at about 4:00 PM and had
>to leave around 5:00 when it closed. The next day around 10:00 AM I
>returned and left around 1:00 PM. I spent about 1/2 an hour
>interviewing the staff. This was when I found out that the trash bins
>were emptied about every twenty minutes or so, to make sure no one saw
>how many of the little card bios of alleged victims were thrown away,
>on the spot. Check them out next time you go there.


Moran:
>	Do you have anything to say about the post directly?


Moran:
	Since he didn't come back, I guess Mittleman couldn't do it.

>>                         daniel david mittleman 
>>===========================================================================
>>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 10:03:33 PDT 1996
Article: 48440 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:55:50 GMT
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	                       [Repost]


   "Fears Rise Over Nazi Weapons Leaking at Bottom of the Baltic"
	          Los Angeles Times, July 18, 1992

	           "Tons of chemical weapons dumped by
                   the Allies after World War II,
                   have nudged the sea to the brink of
                    catastrophe, scientists say." 

	"By tossing 300,000 tons of ready - to - fire weapons - enough to
to kill the entire population of Europe ... The 300,000 tons of
chemical weapons now submerged in the Baltic Sea's greenish brown
waters contain enough active gases to kill 800 million people ..."  

	Interesting connotations. The Germans had all these chemical
weapons, but did not use them, even when they were on the brink, and
here we have the actions of the Allies threatening to accomplish what
the Nazis refrained from doing.

	One wonders why the Nazis would have resorted to using Zyclone B
pellets to exterminate people, in lieu of poison gases they surely
had?  Well we can only assume that Zyclone was used to kill typhoid
carrying parasites at the camps and this is why it was found there,
and no other reason. It was the only thing that could be pointed to
identify as a source for the gas story.   

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 10:03:34 PDT 1996
Article: 48447 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest away
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:14:52 GMT
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                            [repost]

	This post via simple mathematical recogning shows that only 15%
or less of any Zyklon B pellets said to be the agent of mass
extermiantion (gas) would have been used for the alleged mass
extermination, leaving 85% or more as not used, thereby showing that
the product Zyklon B would have been an idiotic thing for the Germans
to have used, and an idiotic thing for anyone to keep trying to push
on hte world.  


>Greg Raven   wrote:

># Because Zyklon B is specifically designed to gas off slowly, it is
># obvious a poor choice for a homicidal gassing. 

>Danny keren wrote:

>It's amazing to see that Raven continues with this rubbish, no
>matter how many times he is corrected.

>Even "revisionist chemist" Germar Rudolph stated that about
>40 percent of the HCN is released within half-an-hour. All the
>SS had to do was to use, in the gas chambers, a concentration
>comparable to that used for delousing. Since humans die
>quickly from a far smaller concentration, much less than 40
>percent would have to gas off in order to kill them.

>Moreover, Dr. Ulrich Roessler did what our "revisionist scholars"
>were too lazy to do for the last 20 years: he located the
>original patent for Zyklon-B, which states that the rate of release
>is even faster than what Rudolph gave. 

># Greg Raven wrote:

># To claim that you could scatter same Zyklon B in a huge room and
># within a few minutes have murdered the hundreds of people inside 
># the room, flies in the face of the facts.

>Danny Keren wrote: 
 
>The above clearly refutes this silly statement by Raven, but
>have no fear, he will keep repeating it in the future. After
>all, he is a "revisionist scholar". 

        Lets see. Raven says that Zyclone B is made to gas off slowly
and thus would be a poor choice for the mass extermination of human
beings under the conditions alleged.

	Karen responds with some material that he concludes "clearly
refutes" Raven's "rubbish".  

        The summary of the pertinent refuting information offered by
Keren is:
   
1. 40% of the HCN escapes the storing medium in the first half hour.

2. Humans die quickly from much less concentration, so much less than
40% would have to gas off.

3. That recently discovered patents to Zyclone B show that the gas off
is even faster.

        The points given do not offer sufficient parameters for
demonstrating that Zyclone B is an efficient product for mass
extermination, such as how much is needed, in what volume and for how
long. 
	
	Regardless of how fast the HCN evaporates into the existing air,
it has nothing to do with the necessary volume/quantity/air borne
level/time factors, only giving evaporation rate for the first 1/2
hour. You cannot deduce the most critical factors from the information
that Keren has supplied.
	
	As it turns out Kerens refuting material tends to support the
idea that Zyclone B is an inappropriate product for mass human
extermination.

	Since no numerical difference is cited between the 40%, and the
"even faster" gassing rate for Zyclone B in the first 1/2 hour, we are
left with an indefinite.
	Lets make it 50%, in the first half hour. This would come out to
about 1.6% of 50% per minute being gassed off in this time. We could
recognize that the rate of evaporation would be even quicker from the
time the can was opened in the first few minutes, gradiating off as
time went on. Lets make it 2.5% of 50% is gassed off for every minute,
giving the Holocaust position the benefit of the numerical increase.
	The popular times given for the extermination process are from 5
to 10 minutes. Giving the Holocaust position the benefit of the
numerical numbers, lets make it 10 minutes.
	Putting the figures together we come out needing only 33% of 50%,
or more precisely, 15% of the readily used product to attain the goal
of mass extermination in the time frame claimed.

	Right here we can see that the product is inefficient for short
term application. Only 15% is used for the intended purpose with the
other 85% being useless - wasted - lingering, left over to complicate
the ventilation of the chamber, the unloading of the bodies and the
preparation for the new batch.
	This alone shows that Zyclone B would have been a poor choice for
mass extermination and further suggests that the product itself was
not designed for the purpose. 

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 10:03:35 PDT 1996
Article: 48449 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:21:29 GMT
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                         Partial Repost
                    from "Holocaust of Mind"
	                            

V.                         Raul Hilberg,
             "The Destruction of European Jews"

"On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
to speak, nonexistent'".
	Stupid Russians.
                            =================


VI.	     "The Destruction of the European Jewery"
		        Raul Hilberg	

	"On Nov.7 Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw district proposed that
the Warsaw Jews (whose number he estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated
in a ghetto, and Frank gave his immediate consent ... During the
winter, Fischer created a Resettlement Division under Waldermar Schon,
who was going to have a major role in ghetto planning ... The first
idea, in February, to locate the ghetto in the eastern bank of the
Vistula River, was turned down ... on the ground that 80 percent of
Warsaw's artisans were Jews ... and were indispensible ..."

	Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"
in relation to the Jews and the Poles in their own nation made up 20%.
Either way - stupid Poles.
	One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he would profess the
Jews have in America. 
                          ===============

                  
VII.	As to the statement, 'Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more
sense than the White Russians whose talents he claimed were for the
most part "nonexistant" in relation to the Jews.' 
                       
	Danny Mittleman, alt.rev. regular, responded to this with;

        "I guess so."	

As to the statement, 'One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he
(Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.' 

	Danny Mittleman responed:
    "I don't know.  I would guess it to be less than 80% for two
reasons: 
    One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade
unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific
fields.  And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to
College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those
education levels."
	
	Which means if it wasn't for this, the Jews would be at least 80%
of the artisan story in America. Stupid Americans.
                            ================	 

VIII.    Nizkor > Shofar FTP > camps > Mauthausen > Hungary .01

	"The fate of the Jewish settlement in Hungary -- one of the
largest in Europe -- was a desolating climax to the tragic Holocaust
period. Before Hitler came to power in 1933 there were about 800,000
Jews in greater Hungary, 200,000 of then living in Budapest, where
despite an endemic anti-Semitism, they were at the forefront of
culture, scientific and economic life of the country."

Abram Sachar, "The Redemption of the Unwanted". 1983

	The figure for the number of prewar Jews in Hungary ranges from
700,000 to 900,000 - 800,000 here. The 700,000 figure is that set
forth by an estimate by the Germans, which the Jews use as an
authority to show there was a large enough Jewish population in Europe
to have been killed and add up to the 6,000,000. The same source cited
700,000 French Jews, which is currently put at 70,000 in more current
Holocaust books. Evidentally there was too much of one thing or not
enough of another to maintain the gross exaggeration for France, so we
should seriously consider any figures given in the list. 
                            ==============


VIII (a).  According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, "A
History of the Holocaust":
	"The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large
measure to the leadership of it's many Jewish members."
                          ===============




From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 14:56:15 PDT 1996
Article: 48464 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ADL  "friends of free speech" excepting ...
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:50:49 GMT
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                         [This is a repost]

	Letter to the Editor,  L.A. Times,  Nov. 21, 1991

                   "Censorship and Computers"

	"The Anti-Defamation League questioned Prodigy Consumer Network's
interpretation and application of it't self inposed guidelines for
determining the appropriateness of messages posted on it't bulletin
boards.  I did not, contrary to Dershowitz's assertion, demand that
Prodigy '"censor"' anti-Semitic messages. The ADL, counts itself among
the staunchest friends of free speech. The questions raised by
Dershowitz as to whether computer services should impose such
guidelines is not the point. In light of the fact that Prodigy has
guidelines, we brought to their attention complaints we recieved about
certain messages that appeared on Prodigy bulletin boards, including
messages claiming the Holocaust is a hoax. Prodigy concluded these
messages were not offensive. We disagree. Even Dershowitz disagrees.
	Dershowitz is wrong to claim that ADL's actions '"aggravated the
problem."'  As the '"watchdog of the Jewish Community against
anti-Semitism"', we believe it is better to expose institutional
racism and anti-Semitism, if it exist, than to pretend it does not.
ADL did not '"mainstream"' the bigotry, it exposed it.
	The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to be
offended. Constitutional law professor Laurence Tribe, of Harvard, has
stated his belief that, with regard to computerized communications,
the issues invovled are not adequately addressed by our legal system.
However, since Prodigy has promulgated guidelines and taken the
responsibility for drawing lines and making judgement calls as to what
is and is not offensive, we and their subscribers have every right to
question their decisions without being labeled promoters of
censorship."
                                                 TZIVIA SSHWARTZ
                                   Western States Associate Counsel
                              Anti- Defamation League, Los Angeles

	What a crock of crap. '...among the staunchest friends of freedom
of speech", "...complaints they recieved..."  The only example they
put in here as to these complaints concerns Holocaust denial. Their
own interests. They are in denial by stating they did not "demand"
Prodigy '"censor"' '"anti-Semitic"' messages and then raising it as a
legitimate topic for Constitiutional revisionism. 
	"The conflict is between freedom of speech and the right not to
be offended."  All those Palestinians, Arabs of other nations, Muslims
and Catholics have the right not to be offended, yet this ADL has
leveled all sorts of vile accusations against them and they don't go
crying for special interpretations and application of our free speech
clause. In true ADL form, they cite a "Constitutional law professor
.. from Harvard" as a selling point for their view. One man? Some
weak minded academite. "Even Dershowitz disagrees"? Dershowitz plays
himself as a champion of freedom of speech so he can play that even
Holocaust denial is objectionable enough to warrant censorship. This
is the good cop bad cop practice that so often accompanies the
writings of this faction. I would suggest a full vote before the whole
United States as to what should or should not be censored on the
Internet. Hows that for democratic procedure? Why leave it up to weak
people in position to submit to the standards of those who sleeze
around to have our Constitution be specialized for their particular
cause.  
	The ADL and associated organizations have their concept of what
they think is offensive, and get their complaints in wherever they
want, but in the end they're the ones who have the big history of
offensiveness against whole nations, whole peoples, whole religions,
and they express it with regularity right in our faces, right in our
public medias, galore.
	Right here in their own directive, REVISIONISM IS ANTI-SEMITISM.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 14:56:15 PDT 1996
Article: 48468 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:12:27 GMT
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Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote:

>-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES-
>
>THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96
>
>BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
>____________________________________________________________________
>
>	As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley 
>R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) 
>website was shutdown from the World Wide Web.  The Bradley R. Smith 
>Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially 
>encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust.

	Perhaps one of those 90 to 0 U.S. Senatorial votes motions
endorsing the move? 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 15:47:11 PDT 1996
Article: 64547 of alt.conspiracy
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: CENSORSHIP - SIMON SAYS AGAIN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:57:30 GMT
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                              [repost]
	                    
                             New York Times
                             Jan. 10, 1996

                      "Jewish Rights Group Urges Ban
                     Of All Hate Messages on Internet"

	"Citing '"the rapidly expanding presence of organized hate groups
on the Internet,"' a leading Jewish human rights group yesterday began
sending letters to hundreds of Internet access providers and
universities asking them to refuse to carry messages that '"promote
racism, anti-Semitism, mayhem and violence"'.
	The letter from the Simon Weisenthal Center, a 425,000-member
organization ... is the latest in a growing effort by legislators and
private interest groups to censor offensive material ... which now
connects millions of computer users worldwide.
	'"Internet providers have a First Amendment right and a moral
obligation not to provide these groups a platform for their
destructive propaganda,"' Rabbi Abraham Cooper, .... wrote in the
letter ...
	Rabbi Cooper said the target of yesterday's call for '"ethical
rules of engagement on the Internet"' was not the many discussion
forums where individuals debate such topics as whether the Holocaust
actually occurred, but rather the Internets's World Wide Web, a
service that allows users to publish documents -- including text,
pictures  ... read by millions of people.
	Dozens of groups, from white supremist to anarchists, have
published documents on the Web about their points of view. Some are
revisionists histories and some are racist tracts denigrating blacks,
Jews ...
	Such hate speech is not illegal under Federal law and is
generally protected by First Amendment ... But efforts are growing to
restrict certain types of information ... Congress is debating ..."

	The article then goes to give us comments from various people who
defend the unrestricted Internet before returning to Rabbi Cooper who
said the '"unprecidented potential and scope of the Internet" gives
people '"incredible power to promote violence, threaten women,
denigrate minorities ..."'
	"He said letters would be sent to about 2000 Internet providers
and university presidents suggesting a voluntary code of ethics.
	The proposed code asks providers to pledge, '"We consider it our
civic duty to refuse or terminate service to any individual or group
to exploit our service to promote an agenda of hate and violence"'.

	A short recap of the of the Jewish "rights group" manifesto is
that the target of their agenda was not the many discussion forums
where individuals debate such topics as revisionism but the
"...groups, from white supremists to anarchists" who have published
"documents on the Web" ...  Some are revisionists histories ..." 

	As to the Times reporter's stating the Jewish "rights group" is
the "latest" group in "a growing effort by legislators and private
interest groups ..." the legislators are the only ones named exactly.
No other group(s) were cited.
	Of course those legislators that are mentioned are the same ones
that will tell you that Zionist policies of shooting little kids is an
act of democracy, and who will muster up 93 Senatorial votes endorsing
Jeruselem as capitol of Israel, while they can't agree on anything
that would benefit the people of the U.S.

	Above, again, a Jewish connection that revisionism and "hate" are
in the same category.

	Before any self imposed or legislative imposed restrictions are
made on the Internet, we should reqire that any proposers list exactly
what they see as example candidates for censorship, and be subject to
debate by the general citizens of the U.S. and the world. It can not
be left up to Jewish "rights groups" to set the parameters. Its
already a unwritten law that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic, and few if
any dare question any U.S. policies that even remotely connect to that
area of the world.

	The main problem with any kind of censorship is the precidences
it sets, which history shows can and will be used to expand them to
any level, far removed from the initial precedence.
	We can not allow ourselves to be controlled by fear and tyranny.
The truely intellectual way of dealing with any wacky malevolent
doctrines is to counter them with the pen, not by the methods of the
likes of the Simon Weisenthal Center. Their approach is a sign of
their failure and confidence of intellect to debate a issue and or
their condemnation of the American intellect. An act of contempt.     


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 16:52:57 PDT 1996
Article: 48479 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:27:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 63
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>
>>>>HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

Mr.Mittleman responded to the title:

>>>    "Tom Moran's manifesto."
>>>
Moran responded:

>>	Actually, Mr.Mittleman has just made a funny on the title of the
>>article. What he didn't respond to was the message:
>>"The Holocaust promotional network's pet word."
>> 
>>What could be done is to do a rough survey on how many times the word
>>hate comes up in Nizkor files and we could suggest HATE is, in fact,
>>one of their pet words.
>> 
>>Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are
>>"Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how
>>Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion.

	As to Moran's question of how would Mr.Mittleman support his
conclusion that HATE is, "Tom Moran's manifesto", Mr.Mittleman simply
and quite curtly replied:  
>
>    "Face validity."

	"Face validity"? Evidentally all Mr.Mittleman thinks he has to do
is point to something someone wrote, give it an adjective, (HATE in
this case), and the proof is shown.
	Is this the same Mr.Mittleman that is always asking for
documentation, even when it is right there in front of him?
(alt.rev."BEHOLD THE LIE")
	Is this the same person that scolded Moran,  "And what train of
logic causes you to make this conclusion.  Other than: "BECAUSE! I!
SAY! SO!'"?  (Alt.rev. "OOH WEE")

	What we have here and present, in it's whole, is Mr.Mittleman's
"And what train of logic causes you to make this conclusion." and his
response, "Face validity", that has absolutely no "train of logic" to
prove his conclusion. Too bad Mr.Mittleman can't live up to, or even
remotely approach any standards he calls on others to have.
	
	Just this response expresses the empirical route. What has taken
place is that Moran has shown, by citing Mr.Mittleman's own words that
he has failed to apply his own demanding standards to himself and that
he failed to apply the standards to his own responses here, he failed
to make any point, and that he is a hypocrit. 

	Mr.Mittleman is a hypocrit. (See above for proof)


>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 17:49:36 PDT 1996
Article: 48487 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:15:27 GMT
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	                       [repost]
	
	"Lizard" (Lizard@dnai.com) wrote in "Re:Simon Wiesenthal Center's
*previous* internet censorship attempts"

	"The amount of cross breeding between Jews and Christians in
Europe is such that the gene pool is hopelessly mixed as is, more
importantly the meme pool.
	Try to purge all '"Jewish influences"' from any good library of
classical literature and you'll have no books left."
	By "Jewish influences" we should take it to mean genetic
influences.
	Well that certain is an ethnocentric ego full. Now all we have to
is wait and see if this fool can come back with the particulars. But
wait he did add that the Bible is one of the classical literatures and
all that was written about it. But then the Bible is just a conveyance
of a superstitious - racist mentality.
	As to the other literature - from Plato to Shakespeare to
Dickenson and the long list of other writers, philosophers, artists,
inventors and discoverers, how many were driven by the Jewish gene?

	The fact is that the Jewish gene has been for the most part
obscured and displaced by the gene of the host society. This is
evident in that the Jews from various European countries even take on
the physical appearance characteristic to the area. Jews from Romania,
say, tend to be short, and Jews from central northern Europe tend to
be taller.
	Considering the low Jewish population ratio, if we should take
say 10 genetic connections and put them into a thousand others, in
time the genetic characteristics of the 10 will be so overwhelmed that
it will become extinct. 
	If there are any genetic influences taking place between Jews and
Goys, it is the Goy that is prevailing. Judging by comparison of
Jewish history against the Goyem history, it is apparent if it was the
other way around we wouldn't have seen the likes of Michaelangelo,
Newton, Shakespeare, Nieztche, Wagner and all the rest.
	What with all the revelations and attention on genetic
structures, we can expect a barrage of Jewish murmurings about their
genetic influences.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 17:49:37 PDT 1996
Article: 48488 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Canada
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:21:27 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
>
>=====================================================================
>       Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't) Accept
>=====================================================================
>
>"During the twelve years of Nazi terror, from 1933 to 1945, while the
>United States accepted more than 200,000 Jewish refuges; Palestine,
>125,000; embattled Britain, 70,000; Argentina, 50,000; penurious
>Brazil, 27,000; distant China, 25,000; tiny Bolivia and Chile, 14,000
>each, Canada found room for fewer than 5,000."
>
>Excerpted from....----------------------------------------------
>NONE IS TOO MANY, Irving Abella and Harold Troper, Toronto, 1982
>ISBD 0-919630-31-6.     (Canada & The Jews of Europe, 1933-1948)
>---------------------------------------------------------   p. x
>
>	This is pretty humorous "Numbers of Refugees That Canada (Didn't)
>Accept". Idiotic really.   
>
	I wonder how many, say, Iceland accepted?
Talk about regugees. I wonder how many of those Palestinians that got
thrown out are allowed to even visit Israel.


	What's that? They say Israel has a special exclusion right not to
have to comply with what they condemn? 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 17:49:38 PDT 1996
Article: 48489 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:23:22 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>Message-ID: <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> Tom Moran wrote:
>
>         Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are
>         "Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how
>         Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion.
>
>    OK, here is another example:
>

	Mr.Mittleman's simple inclusion of the identified post deleted.
 
>In article <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net>, 
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
  
	To which he simply says:

>     "Fish in a barrel, Zeyde."

	Evidentally Mr.Mittleman has a problem with the empirical
approach to determining something. What he sees it as is, all he has
to do is say something, and it is so. Mr.Mittleman has offered nothing
to show whatever he uses as examples is proof of his accusations. He's
so curt. 
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 17:49:39 PDT 1996
Article: 48490 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:23:38 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  >The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers
>>  >
>>  >This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to
>>  >bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects
>>  >along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their
>>  >students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone
>>  >who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies.
>
>  
>>  	Who do these people think they are getting involved with the
>>  American education system? 
>
>	Last time I looked, the University of Pennsylvania was located in 
>*gasp* Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.  It was just west of the Schuykill River and 
>just south of Market Street.  What right anybody from California has to protest a 
>private university located in Pennsylvania and with a 230 year history of 
>involvement in education in Pennsylvania writing a guide for Pennsylvania 
>teachers is beyond me.
>
>	--YFE

	I wonder if this fool knows whether or not Pennsylvania is in the
United States of America or not.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 17:49:39 PDT 1996
Article: 48491 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Christians 'take it like a man'
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:23:49 GMT
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>	And excellant analogy of course, no less than I have come to expect of
>you.
>
>	But in comparison you will not the difference between my articles on the
>homosexual encounter of Jesus and the multiple idols of the Israelites
>you will see the same thing.  The former gets zero response.  The latter
>garners all kinds of accusations.  	 

	This is the special exclusion right that has been self declaired
by the self righteous. 

>
>	The responses to the latter are as though I posted in in
>alt.fundie.christian.  
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul  5 17:49:40 PDT 1996
Article: 48492 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:34:27 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote:

>-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES-
>
>THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96
>
>BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
>____________________________________________________________________
>
>	As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley 
>R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) 
>website was shutdown from the World Wide Web.  The Bradley R. Smith 
>Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially 
>encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust.

	Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at Nizkor. Lots
of e-mail to and from the usual, telling each other what a great day
it is.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:28 PDT 1996
Article: 48504 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:06:16 GMT
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>[Herr Moran's gratuitous and habitual insults against the Allies snipped]

	The reason Mr.VanAlstine has snipped what he calls "gratuitous
and habitual insults against the Allies" and has failed to make a case
for his charges is obvious. Because he can't. If he could he would
have. 

	The rest of Mr.VanAlstine's 315 line response is ignored becasue
it lacks relevance to the post, being nothing more than an unnecessary
expansion. Anyone who wants to endure reading through it can do so,
and then post a point by point argument that it is relevant.   


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:29 PDT 1996
Article: 48508 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:10:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
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Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote:

>-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES-
>
>THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96
>
>BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
>____________________________________________________________________
>
>	As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley 
>R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) 
>website was shutdown from the World Wide Web.  The Bradley R. Smith 
>Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially 
>encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust.

	Cause for an eventual national holiday in Israel?



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:29 PDT 1996
Article: 48509 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: If no lice, then no Holocaust
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:53:52 GMT
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	                   [Repost]
             	
		         - DACHAU - 

                      By Marcus J. Smith 
               State University of New York Press

Chapter 19, "The Burial Detail"

	"Many of the big guns of the Medical Corps are loaded, and on May
3, seventy two hours after our arrival in the camps, the barrage
begins that will bring victory against the body lice, the
misanthropic, parasitic, insects responsible for the transmission of
typhus fever from person to person. The Army has contributed enough
DDT so that dusting of all the inmates at Dachau and Allach can start.
By a superhuman effort the task is completed in five days. In addition
to the inmates. the official quarantine calls for dusting of all other
personel - Army personel, guards, visitors, Allied officials - when
they leave the inner camp for the outer area. Furthermore, these
persons are required to show their immunization records and be given
typhus vaccine, unless they have received the vaccine during the
previous thirty days. We should like to inoculate the inmates at this
time, but such action will have to wait. Despite the mighty resources
of the Army, there is insufficient vaccine on hand."
	                  
	So it seems in the final months of the war, when the food
supplies were having a tough time getting to the camps, even the
Zyklon supply was cut off. And since even the victorious U.S. Army was
short on supplies of typhus vaccine, we can understand what kind of
problems the Germans would have had getting the vital necessities to
the camps while they were undergoing heavy bombardment of their
cities, supplies and routes.
	It also demonstrates that there was a persistent problem with    
Typhus Fever, caused by lice, and this is why the fumigant Zyklon B
was even on the premises of the camps in the first place.
	If it wasn't for lice, there would be no Zyklon B found, if no
Zyklon B found then no agent of mass extermination to identify. If no
agent found, no gas stories would have endured. Therefore, if no lice,
no "Holocaust".	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:30 PDT 1996
Article: 48521 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 17:08:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
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Widmann@gnn.com (Richard Widmann) wrote:

>-THE THOUGHTCRIME ARCHIVES-
>
>THOUGHTCRIME: 07/04/96
>
>BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
>____________________________________________________________________
>
>	As the first seconds of July 4, 1996 ticked away, the Bradley 
>R. Smith / CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust) 
>website was shutdown from the World Wide Web.  The Bradley R. Smith 
>Website was dedicated to the cause of Free Speech and especially 
>encouraged open debate on the topic of the Holocaust.

	Champaign corks popping at the Anti-Defamation Committee
headquarters today?


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:31 PDT 1996
Article: 48523 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:06:53 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 42
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	During the American Revolution fighting took place for
years. Over the plains and up the mountains, guns, cannons, fire and
freezing cold. Men losing their arms, legs and lives. Sons and
daughters losing fathers. Wives losing husbands. Friends dying
together in mangled lumps. And when it was all over the United States
stood before the world with its grand document like no other nation
had ever seen before. The Constitution of the United states.
	This quest for freedom is not something unique to the United
States alone, it has been going on for millemnia. In ancient Greece
and Rome, and before that, the struggle has been going on. The French
Revolution the Magna Carta. Many fighters have died across the ages
and the Constitution of the United States is the latest and most
significant of the culmination this human struggle. We must recognize
these ancient fighters as part of our heritage.
	Now here we are, 200 and some years after the Revolution and
thousands of years after the others with Simon Wiesenthals, ADLs and
the like come latelies plying about our nation trying to undo it all.
	Regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their place
at the head of this human history of seeking justice and freedoms for
the people, ancient Israel never had such freedoms for their own
people under their own government, the truth lies in their two little
books. And the history of their activity in the United States is well
documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using it
to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2%
putting out the 100% on how they great they are.   
	Its lucky we have the ACLU with the Jewish leadership out on the
front lines defending us. Going to court, raising legal precedences,
citing this and that, filing this, making a motion for that. Of course
all this is prone to juggling by some magistrate before he or she
makes a determination. One person, maybe two or three. One giving
here, another giving there. This is the vulnerability of our freedoms
if we should allow it to be a legal issue, dependant on the will and
competancy of the miniscule.
	The Constitution of the United States is a philosophical
doctrine. It can not be left up to magistrates and senators to make
amendments or set limits on the basic tenets as they have been doing
with increasing frequency. The Constitution being a philosophical
document should be left up to the popular decisions of the people of
the nation. It has to be discussed in the same fashion that we would
discuss any philosophy. Some talk real democracy, others just use the
word. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:32 PDT 1996
Article: 48524 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 14:58:22 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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                              [Repost]			

	                    Hillary Ostrov
                        (Nizkor co-webmaster)
			   alt.revisionism
			"No Zyklone - then DDT"

	          "Many of us believe that ridicule
                  is the most appropriate response to
                  one who(offers) up thoroughly idiotic
                  questions and responses."


	'We at Nizkor will be the ultimate authority on what constitutes
"idiotic questions and responses".
	
	Actually, it is a childish ploy for evasion. Hilary has never, as
far as I know, posted anything of substance.	Of course she could come
back and post some of her stuff to rebuke this claim. Okay Hillary, go
for it.




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:32 PDT 1996
Article: 48525 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Some Holocaust Facts
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 15:07:32 GMT
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                             [repost]

	Anywhere from 300,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.

	The total number of people to have been exterminated by the Nazis
during the WWII period is 10 million, 11 million or 12 million.

	Although none have been found and identified, there are at least
15 mass grave sites where at least 10 thousand people and up to 40,000
and on to 2,000,000 were buried and/or cremated in each one.

	Regardless of whether or not the 46 identified incinerator
chambers at Auschwitz have barely the volume of a refrigerator, 200
people a day could be cremated in each one.

	Sometimes the whole process was kept in secret, sometimes it
wasn't.

	There were 700,000, 800,000 or 900,000 Jews in Hungary before the
war. Somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000 were exterminated at
Auschwitz.

	Even though it was once said there were 700,000 Jews in France
before the war and the figure is now put at 70,000, the number of Jews
said to have been in Hungary and also found on the same list as the
700,000 French, the figure for the Hungarian Jews still stands.  

	Any eye witness accounts and testimony for the Holocaust story
supercede any against it.

	Any discrepancies or contradictions found in eyewitness
testimonies should not be looked on with suspicion. 

	Questioning the Holocaust story is an act of hate and those do
are "neo-Nazis" and "anti-Semitic".  

	Even though many revisions to the Holocaust story have taken
place, with many of the old accounts being generally recognized as
lies, any surviving accounts are to be accepted unconditionally.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:33 PDT 1996
Article: 48548 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:38:43 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <31dd6063.10567679@news.pacificnet.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:


	Below we have the first commnert from Nizkor. Jamie's concern is
totally focused on whether or not this affair will give "martyrdom"
status to Bradely Smith's site. He most defitenly doesn't have a
problem the acts connection to our First Amendment. 
	


>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>    Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at Nizkor. Lots
>> of e-mail to and from the usual, telling each other what a great day
>> it is.
>
>Au contraire.  I'm composing a reply to one of DvdThomas's articles
>from a day or two ago, but now, with the fuss that's going to result,
>he has the perfect excuse to ignore what I'm going to say.  It's a
>frustrating annoyance for me (just as it is for them, though not to
>the same degree of course).
>
>Plus, they get to claim martyr status, and there's no really good
>counterargument to that (assuming their provider didn't have a good
>reason for kicking them off).  I imagine CODOH is quite happy over
>earning the right to put a big "CENSORED" banner in red letters at the
>top of their home page, when their next site gets set up.  Not to
>mention the nice-sounding rhetoric that Mr. Smith can put into his
>newsletters for the next six to twelve months.  "Dear Friends, it was
>a harrowing experience on the internet this month, when on the day of
>our nation's independence, the First Amendment was stricken a cruel
>blow..."
>
>Whether they think the martyrdom is worth the extra work it'll take to
>move the site, I don't know.  If I were in their position, I'd
>probably be celebrating -- being censored is a red badge of courage
>for revisionists.
>
>What I do know is that it's an annoying situation for me and for
>Nizkor.  From our perspective, nothing really changes.  They get
>kicked off one provider, so they move the site to another and start up
>again.  Big deal.  They have to do a lot of work to update their site,
>we have to do a little work to update ours (mental note: edit ftp.pl
>to autocorrect URLs to whatever their new site will be, and search
>/web for valleynet\.com).  Life will go on pretty much as usual,
>except now they'll have that big red "CENSORED" banner.
>
>Posted;  emailed to CODOHmail@aol.com.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:34 PDT 1996
Article: 48555 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!tezcat.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:47:20 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <31dd6263.11080075@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da92b8.4395977@news.pacificnet.net> <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199612343251@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dd2517.262925@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610075416@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31dd2517.262925@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>Message-ID: <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> Tom Moran wrote:
>>>
>>>         Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are
>>>         "Tom Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how
>>>         Mr.Mittleman would go about supporting his conclusion.
>>>
>>>    OK, here is another example:
>>>
>> 
>>	Mr.Mittleman's simple inclusion of the identified post deleted.
>
>    Note that Tommy does not want us to see what he wrote.  It is included
>    again below.

	Mr.Mittleman implies that the readers are too stupid to know that
deleted material is right here in the thread. How would Moran go about
hiding the martterial? He could cancel the article. But then it is
already in the devices of others computers from which he couldn't
extract it. Of course it was included in response posts, which Moran
wouldn't have any control over. All those things, and Mr.Mittleman
says Moran is trying to cover up.

>
>>>In article <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net>, 
>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>  
>>	To which he simply says:
>> 
>>>     "Fish in a barrel, Zeyde."
>> 
>>	Evidentally Mr.Mittleman has a problem with the empirical
>>approach to determining something. What he sees it as is, all he has
>>to do is say something, and it is so. Mr.Mittleman has offered nothing
>>to show whatever he uses as examples is proof of his accusations. He's
>>so curt. 
>
>    The text that Tommy clipped out of his response comes from
>    <31dbfd7e.3653171@news.pacificnet.net> in which tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>    moran) writes...
>
>         Jeruselm One should stay out of our buisness. We don't need their
>         Zionist practices over here any more than what we have already.
>
>         The facts are, not only can it be shown that nothing good for the
>         us or the World has ever come from our support for the Jewish
>         state, but that the only thing that could be shown is that it has
>         been a disaster for the U.S., and the World.  All they have are
>         words and nothing else.
>
>    I think the HATRED and anti-semitism are self-evident in the post.  I
>    don't think it requires any additional analysis.  If there are any
>    lurkers out there who disagree with me, please speak up.
>
>    And Tommy suspects as much himself.  Why else would he have clipped it
>    out of his reply up above?
>
>    This little zeyde is a mean hateful bigot, an anti-semite, and a liar. 
>    Marty Kelly has demonstrated this in his analysis of Tommy's posts. 
>    Yale Edieken has demonstrated this and challanged Tommy to take him to
>    arbitration should Tommy disagree.  But Tommy doesn't.  This little
>    zeyde knows he would lose and lose big.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:35 PDT 1996
Article: 48611 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:51:04 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <31dd635f.11332016@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31dbfd84.3660037@news.pacificnet.net> <4rhg1v$6ga@news.enter.net> <31dd255d.333449@news.pacificnet.net> <5JUL199610112552@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31dd255d.333449@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>> 
>>>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>>
>>>>  >The Holocaust: A Guide for Pennsylvania Teachers
>>>>  >
>>>>  >This guide, written in 1990 at the University of Pennsylvania aims to
>>>>  >bring to educators basic texts on the Holocaust and related subjects
>>>>  >along with ideas on how to bring them to the understanding of their
>>>>  >students. All educators should look into this guide, as should anyone
>>>>  >who is interested in getting a basic knowledge in Holocaust studies.
>>>
>>>  
>>>>  	Who do these people think they are getting involved with the
>>>>  American education system? 
>>>
>>>	Last time I looked, the University of Pennsylvania was located in 
>>>*gasp* Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.  It was just west of the Schuykill River and 
>>>just south of Market Street.  What right anybody from California has to protest a 
>>>private university located in Pennsylvania and with a 230 year history of 
>>>involvement in education in Pennsylvania writing a guide for Pennsylvania 
>>>teachers is beyond me.
>>>
>>>	--YFE
>> 
>>	I wonder if this fool knows whether or not Pennsylvania is in the
>>United States of America or not.
>
>    I wonder if the zeyde fool realizes that his own post up above shows
>    that the University of Pennsylvania was recommending curriculum only
>    for the State of Pennsylvania.  It was the zeyde fool who
>    mis-interpreted this to mean "the American education system."  It was
>    the zeyde fool who is having trouble with his geography here.  

	Evidentally Mr.Mittleman doesn't think that precedences set in
one state can spread to other states. Pennsylvania is in the United
States of America.
	Perhaps when Mr.Mittleman gets through going over this fraction
of the post he'll dare to go onto and make comment on the other
majority portion. 

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 08:01:36 PDT 1996
Article: 48613 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 18:34:00 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <31dd5fb8.10396478@news.pacificnet.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># Looks like theres going to be a celebration party at
># Nizkor. 
>
>I will not party. Smith is a truly repulsive person, but he
>should be allowed to have his web site. To the best of my
>knowledge, and from reading this group, everybody in "Nizkor"
>disagrees with this kind of action. But one can expect Moran
>to lie about this - we know who we're dealing with here: a liar
>and forger.
>
>Unlike "leading revisionist" Ernst Zundel, I do not believe
>in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people
>have said - let the "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum be out here 
>in the open, for all the world to see.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

	We can only wait to see what action you or Nizkor will take to
challenge this iniquous slashing of our 1st Amendment.
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 12:41:03 PDT 1996
Article: 48643 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FREE SPEECH - A Matter of Philosophy, Not Law.
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:56:48 GMT
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
>
>In <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> Tommy the zeyde wrote:
>
>    Now Mr.Mittleman has posted that the words "HATE HATE HATE ETC are "Tom
>    Moran's manifesto". It would be interesting in seeing how Mr.Mittleman
>    would go about supporting his conclusion.
>
>    Here is a third exaple of Tom Moran's posting of hate:
>
>In article <31dd2d95.2437571@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
>>	Now here we are, 200 and some years after the Revolution and
>>thousands of years after the others with Simon Wiesenthals, ADLs and
>>the like come latelies plying about our nation trying to undo it all.
>>	Regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their place
>>at the head of this human history of seeking justice and freedoms for
>>the people, ancient Israel never had such freedoms for their own
>>people under their own government, the truth lies in their two little
>>books.
	This is in reply to Mittleman's below where he has put things
into his own words to be responded to. 
	Inspite of the Jews trying to imply prominence in the American
Revolution (Cal.Gov. Pete Wilson as a Senator tried to introduce a
bill to erect a statue to some remote Revolutionary character said to
have been Jewish, boastings that some guy named Solomon from Philly
financed the war, and machinations of Paul Reveres commanding officer
being Jewish) the Jews role in the American Revolution was of such an
extent it doesn't merit mention.
	Full page ads by Jewish organizations tell us how they are at the
forefront of civil rights.
	The two little books mentioned are the "O.T." including the Torah
and the wicked Talmud.
	As to their trying to undo all that was gained during our 
American Revolution, Jews are working hard in consort to undo those
freedoms, basically the First Amendment. Seems that 99% of the
complaints that come out against free speech come from this group that
makes up 1 or 2 percent of our population. They say they are fighting
"hate" when in fact they are only really concerned with stifling free
speech on the Holocaust and U.S. relations with Israel, and Zionist
practices.
	Whatever Mr.Mittleman raves about Jewish individuals being here
and there says nothing about what they do when acting in consort for
their own benefit.  
	Are Jews trying to control our modes of communication? Yes. Just
look at their activity with the net. They seem to be the only ones who
have the biggest beef. The one or two percent having the 99% problem.
Hollywood? Well this doesn't need any comment. News papers? Seems half
the voices that appear on our editorials are Jewish. The one or two
percent having at least 50% of the voice.
	Lobbies for special consideration in Washington? A couple of
hundred organizations for plying around the capitol. 
	Books? "The Dare to Speak Out" by ex-Senator Paul Findley, and a
myriad of others. 
	History in general? The most repeated history in the history of
the world.

>And the history of their activity in the United States is well
>>documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using it
>>to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2%
>>putting out the 100% on how they great they are.   
>
>    I think this stands on its own.  But Tommy wants to see analysis:
>
>    He writes, "regardless of what the Jews will self proclaim about their
>    place at the head of this human history..."  And just what do the Jews
>    self proclaim?  Tommy has no quotes to offer.  And even if Tommy offers
>    a quote from one Jew, Tommy has no way to demonstrate that the words of
>    one Jew represent all Jews (or even a majority).  The generalization of
>    a whole from a single (unsupported!) example is evidence of at the very
>    least faulty reasoning.  And, in context with the rest of what the
>    zeyde has to say, in all liklihood hatred of Jews.
>
>    He write, "the truth lies in their two little books."  Frankly, I have
>    no idea what two books the zeyde is referring to here.  The Old
>    Testiment and the Talmud?  Whichever, why is he using the dimunitive
>    "little"?  Are the books physically small?  Or is he in some way saying
>    that the books have little meaning, little value, little worth?  If the
>    latter, this is unsupported by anything posted above - probably off
>    topic to the post - and hateful.
>
>    He writes: "And the history of their activity in the United States is
>    well documented, tenacious to control our modes of communication, using
>    it to sell us on Israel, their one and only allegiance. The little 2%
>    putting out the 100% on how they great they are."   
>
>    The hisory is, in fact, well documented.  Jewish veterens of every
>    American war.  Jewish captains of industry and commerce.  Jewish
>    policemen, firefighters, and medical care giver.  Jewish Cabinet
>    members and congressmen.  Jewish teachers, researchs and scientist.  In
>    all, Jews have participated along side non-Jews for the entire history
>    of our country.  Jews, as a community, have a strong history of
>    participation in the political process. Jews, as a community, have
>    taken a strong interest in charitable organizations.  Jews, as
>    individuals and a community, have been active in civil and human rights
>    movements.  In all, Jews have participated along side non-Jews for the
>    entire history of our country.  If this is the documented history Tommy
>    is talking about, then wonderful.  If Tommy is hinting at some other
>    documented history, then it flies in the face of what the vast majority
>    of Americans know.  And he ought to show his documentation - not merely
>    make insinuations.  Why, that would only be hateful.
>
>    Tommy says that Jews are tenacious to control our modes of
>    communication.  Is that true?  I so how true is it, Tommy?  And don't
>    stop at just naming a few names.  Show us how those few names
>    manipulate the non-Jews who have control of some media.  Show us how
>    those few names act in concert to the same end.  Show us how they use
>    it to sell us on Israel.  Show us how and why the 98% non-Jews -
>    including many who are powerful in their own right - are powerless to
>    stop this, or atleastexpose it.  Why, making such an assertion without
>    being able to at least demonstrate the plausibility o it would be
>    hateful.
>
>    And show us how American Jews hold Israel as their one and only
>    allegiance.  When protestents (a few, certainly not all) suggested that
>    John Kennedy shouldn't be President because his allegiance was to the
>    Pope before it was to the constitution, many many Americans called that
>    "politics of hate" and denounced the sentiment.  Tell us why this is
>    not an identical "politics of hate" you are preaching here, zeyde.
>
>    And while you are at it, don't forget the evidence to support your
>    assertions about Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen. 
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 12:41:04 PDT 1996
Article: 48644 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:00:57 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
>about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
>were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).
>
>All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the
>Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
>who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
>participated in the gassing operations).
>
>Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by 
>the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
>1945 (p. 153-4):
>----------------------------------------------------------------------                                       
>The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with 
>injections were begun in 1942.
>
>"First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
>know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
>looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
>phenolic acid".
	These Germans always seem to have to experiment with the most
basic of procedures and substances, like when they were trying to
figure out how much Zyklon B would have to used.
>
>First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart:
>"I assume that the intravenous method took too long".
>
>"Do you know who killed, where the murders took place, and how many
>people were the victims of such injections?"
>
>"I will begin with the number killed: I assume that about 30,000 people
>were killed in this fashion".
>
>First came infirm Jews, then other hospital patients, then people not
>hospitalized, including prisoners "which the Gestapo sent in a round-
>about way".
>
>"Who did the killing?"
>
>"At first Dr. Entress himself, then Klehr, and then - in this order - 
>Scherpe and Hantl. Hantl did it rarely. We thought of Hantl as a decent
>man and were surprised that he did it".
>
	Actually this may be the only part of the Holocaust story I might
possibly believe as to Auschwitz, Euthanasia killings. To what extent
and under what kind of conditions is a field in its self.

>
>Testimony of SS men Klehr (p. 71):
>------------------------------------------
>"How did you kill these prisoners?"
>"Well, like before. With a shot of phenol into the heart".
>
>
>SS men Scherpe is asked about the murder of the Zamosc children (p. 79):
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>According to testimony by numerous witnesses during the pretrial
>hearing, at least 119 children were murdered with phenol injections
>in the closing days of February, 1943. Force was used to get them into
>the executioner's chair, and Scherpe himself gave them the lethal
>injection into their hearts. It was so horrible that the "medic" ran
>away in desperation. The next day his colleague Hantl, a co-defendant,
>murdered the remaining 80 children.

	"Pretrial" -  "hearing"?
>
>"You broke down and couldn't go on?" the judge asks.
>"That is exaggerated. It isn't true".
>
>Scherpe no longer wants to admit what he himself said earlier, that the
>children, panic-stricken, had screamed.
>
>"That is not so. I didn't say that. It is also not true. They suspected
>nothing. They probably thought they were being inoculated".
>
>The last boy waiting outside began to cry and called for his companions
>who didn't return. And that was the only indication the defendant had
>that the children may have feared death.
>
>
>Polish physician, Dr. Klodzinski, testifies about the murder of the 
>Zamosc children (p. 152):
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>"In the afternoon came the order to kill the children. They were led
>into the washroom, and told to undress and line up. And then Scherpe
>came; I still remember that".
>
>Klodzinski speaks of the dead silence in Block 20 at that moment; 
>nothing was heard except thumps "- it was a muffled sound" - as the
>heads and bodies of the slain children fell to the floor of the 
>washroom.
>
>"Suddenly Scherpe came out of the room and said 'I can't anymore', and
>left. After a while Hantl took his place and and murdered the remaining
>children".
>
>
>Warsaw physician Dr. Glowacki testifies (p. 137-8):
>---------------------------------------------------
>"How many in your opinion were selected by the defendant [Klehr] on his
>own authority?"
>
>"He certainly selected and killed more than 10,000".

	For a while, the testimony was getting to me. Then it gets to
exaggerated to handle. "10,000"? 
>[...]
>
>But the witness saw how Scherpe "personally administered injections in
>Block 20. It happened during the murder of children from the vicinity
>of Zamosc. There were so many of them that they had to line them up
>between the barracks. Some of the children wee led into the area of
>Block 20, where Scherpe killed them while the others were still playing
>outside. There were more than 100".
>
>He remembers this case so well because Scherpe had suddenly paused. "We
>thought he was conscience-stricken and that was the reason he broke off
>in the middle of murdering the children. I clearly remember him 
>stopping. He left, and we never saw him again after that. Hantl took 
>over. Hantl finished the murder of the children".
>
>Stanislaus Glowa testifies (p. 183-186):
>----------------------------------------
>Glowa, like many of the witnesses who preceded him, tells of the 
>"experimental gassing" at the end of 1941 in Block 11, of the slayings
>with phenol, first at Block 28 and then in Block 20 of the prisoner
>hospital.
>
>"Klehr, Scherpe and Hantl regularly took part in the killings with 
>phenol. But I would like to point out at this time, for the sake of
>justice, if I had to set up a scale of responsibility, that the last-
>named behaved like saints compared to Klehr".
>
>[...]
>
>The court also hears this witness tell of the fate of 120 boys from the
>Polish village of Zamosc. Their parents had been killed, and the
>children were brought to Auschwitz, where, after a few weeks, it was
>decided to kill them as well. Work-detail leader Palitzch brought them
>into the courtyard of the hospital on a February morning in 1943, where
>the played and were given food by older prisoners. 

	"After a few weeks, it was decided to kill them as well"? What
was the inital intent? To keep them there? Doesn't make sense the
German would have even considered it going by the general Holocaust
story. 

>"They were hungry and frightened and told of having been beaten. All of
>us felt sorry for them. Again and again they asked: 'Will we be killed?
>Why?'. They had to wait a few hours to the end".
>
>Prisoner-clerk Glowa sat in the aisle of hospital building 20, where
>almost daily he crossed of the names of patients "injected" by Klehr
>from the list of inmates. Not far from where he sat was the curtain 
>behind which the victims had to stand in the corridor until a prisoner 
>took them into the "examination room" where Klehr was waiting for them 
>with his phenol injection.
>
>"Scherpe and Hantl came in that afternoon, and they worked for a long
>time. In order to shorten the terrible torment of the children, I would
>take them to the curtain and tell them they are going to be bathed. The
>first ones had screamed with terror in the room".
>
>"Do you have children"? Glowa asks in a breaking voice, and then 
>continues: "It was horrible. Why did they kill us? That is why I 
>helped, to shorten the torment. After it was over I saw Hantl in a 
>state of complete collapse". 
>
>
>

	Well, this guy Klehr got his, but what about those other ones
that got only 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 years. Well maybe the trial after the
origianl "pretrial hearing" discovered some exaggerating had taken
place.

	To bad this is just "quotes from book" and not a more direct
route of posting the evidence in a more professional manner.

>The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to
>4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had
>served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a
>free man.
>
>-Danny Keren.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 12:41:05 PDT 1996
Article: 48653 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Remember the Children"
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:51:24 GMT
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31dd2578.359978@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <31d7d889.1586508@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>>>	
>>>>>	"Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted
>>>>>around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It
>>>>>is displayed on the inside and on the outside.
>> 
>>Mittleman:
>>>>    When did you visit the Museum?
>> 
>> 
>>Moran:
>>>	August '93. On a Thursday I visited it at about 4:00 PM and had
>>>to leave around 5:00 when it closed. The next day around 10:00 AM I
>>>returned and left around 1:00 PM. I spent about 1/2 an hour
>>>interviewing the staff. This was when I found out that the trash bins
>>>were emptied about every twenty minutes or so, to make sure no one saw
>>>how many of the little card bios of alleged victims were thrown away,
>>>on the spot. Check them out next time you go there.
>> 
>> 
>>Moran:
>>>	Do you have anything to say about the post directly?
>> 
>> 
>>Moran:
>>	Since he didn't come back, I guess Mittleman couldn't do it.
>
>    No, in fact I didn't have anything to say about this post directly.  I
>    didn't think you stated anything worth commenting on.  I thank you for
>    responding to my question about whether you had visited the museum.
>
>    Now, you might consider offering some support for your assertion that
>    historians have changed their interpretation of whether both Buchenwald
>    and Bergen-Belson were extermination camps or not.  it has been awhile
>    now that you have been avoiding this and some of your precious lurkers
>    might begin to sense you are being less than fully forthcoming with
>    them, zeyde.

	I don't know to what degree "percious lurkers" might be following
what everever your focused on. I don't have any problem with lurkers.
I treat them with respect. You can point out whatever you want to
point out, and by so doing you can expose yourself. Maybe along with
the clarification I'm going to ask you for right now, you would like
to explain why you are bringing up a topic that was from another post
that has nothing to do with what is at hand. I believe you have
included it with a response to another unrelated post also. 
                         ================

	First I will clarify my position. I say that in the early years
after the war, even unto into the fifties, Bergen-Belsen and
Buchenwald were put forth in publications as being extermination
camps, and at this time these camps are held as never having been
extermination camps.
	Now if you have some special application that you need as to
"historians" that is your specialty. I don't think I ever mentioned
the word "historians". I'll clarify the specifics as to what I am
talking about as, referrences in any kind of publication that posed
these two camps as extermination camps.	
	As to their status right now, I would refer you to the Simon
Wiesenthal Center site, "Response to Revisionist Arguments", No.12.
"Didn't Simon wiesenthal himself state that there were no
extermination camps in Germany?" We will notice that Simon Wiesenthal
did not word it like 'Isn't it true that at one time camps in Germany,
including Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald, were once put forth as being
extermination camps and now this past assertion is not held, even by
Mr.Wiesenthal himself?'
	Maybe you can employ some special cant to say why Wiesenthal
would even heve a question like this.

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:20 PDT 1996
Article: 48715 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:54:10 GMT
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sf924@aol.com (SF924) wrote:

>You people do HATE.  You hate Jews, Blacks, immigrants and hispanics.
>
>What I can't fathom is why the hell you deny it.  Hitler never denied that
>he hated Jews to the core.  Hitler believed that all of society's ills lay
>at the feet of the Jews.   Hitler transformed himself from a "weak-kneed
>cosmopolitan" to an anti-semite.
>
>You act like there is something wrong with hating Jews.  Are you too
>ashamed to hate Jews?   

	No wonder this 'person' uses a goofy alias. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:21 PDT 1996
Article: 48716 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: U.S. Education System Directed From Israel
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:54:03 GMT
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mstein@access4.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>    Yes, Tommy, but you also recalled some Jewish group trying to get the
>menorah declared a secular symbol.  I recall a Tommy bluster about how
>we were all going to be sorry when you found your documentation.  But
>you never did, did you?  Instead we found out that what you thought was 
>a Jewish group was the KKK, and the argument that the menorah could be
>secular _lost_.
>
>    You also recalled Hilary Ostrov having some article published in some
>newspaper.  And that recollection was false.  So you will excuse me if I
>don't trust your memory very much.

	As to how much of your post is true to facts or cited wording, I
don't know at this time. I do thank you for endorsing my other 100+
posts by not having to say and always concentrating on these two.
Thanks - again.
>
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:22 PDT 1996
Article: 48717 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionism Defined
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:54:15 GMT
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brlhagen@aol.com (Brlhagen) wrote:

>Revisionism Accurately Defined
>-submitted for the edification of all
>by Bruce Hagen
>
>A PRECIS OF HOLOCAUST REVISIONISM

	An excellent work.
                               Tom Moran


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48718 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:56:55 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>				
>	The Holocaust promotional network's pet word.

	A recent ballpark count of how many times the word "hate" appears
in Nizkor files shows 234 occurances. A full count would probably show
something like 10 X that many. 

	Tommorrow I think I'll type "hate" into some search facility to
see what happens.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48719 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Remember the Children"
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 20:07:05 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

	It is obvious you are deranged Mr.Mittleman. Your a waste of
time. Its also obvious that you post things from one article to
another in order to try and take attention off the topic at hand. This
is the last address you get. The only thing that will be forthcoming
to any of your posts that are directed to me will be referrals to a
post containing a connotated recap of this sequence and a few other
examples of your foolish practices that will show your imput as being
absolutely useless and not meriting any response.

>In article <31de6e70.282094@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>    Now, you might consider offering some support for your assertion that
>>>    historians have changed their interpretation of whether both Buchenwald
>>>    and Bergen-Belson were extermination camps or not.  it has been awhile
>>>    now that you have been avoiding this and some of your precious lurkers
>>>    might begin to sense you are being less than fully forthcoming with
>>>    them, zeyde.
>> 
>>	I don't know to what degree "percious lurkers" might be following
>>what everever your focused on. I don't have any problem with lurkers.
>>I treat them with respect. You can point out whatever you want to
>>point out, and by so doing you can expose yourself. Maybe along with
>>the clarification I'm going to ask you for right now, you would like
>>to explain why you are bringing up a topic that was from another post
>>that has nothing to do with what is at hand. I believe you have
>>included it with a response to another unrelated post also. 
>>                         ================
>> 
>>	First I will clarify my position. I say that in the early years
>>after the war, even unto into the fifties, Bergen-Belsen and
>>Buchenwald were put forth in publications as being extermination
>>camps, and at this time these camps are held as never having been
>>extermination camps.
>
>    Can your provide any specific pointers to a publication that did this
>    so I can see for myself that these camps were called extermination
>    camps?
>
>>	Now if you have some special application that you need as to
>>"historians" that is your specialty. I don't think I ever mentioned
>>the word "historians". I'll clarify the specifics as to what I am
>>talking about as, referrences in any kind of publication that posed
>>these two camps as extermination camps.	
>
>    I note that you did not say "historian" in your initial post.  The
>    distinction is important to me.  Sometimes Journalists get the
>    terminology - and the facts - wrong when they write about the
>    Holocaust.  Just as you have seen journalists say 4,000,000 died at
>    Auschwitz, I too have seen the same thing.  Historians sometimes, but
>    very rarely, make such blatant mistakes.
>
>    So, I would like to see for myself which publications made these
>    statements.  I would like to determine for myself whether [a] there was
>    a change in what was conventionally presented to have happened in the
>    Holocaust, [b] usage of terminology changed over time (did they
>    actually say extermination, or did they say killing or gassing or some
>    other such thing), [c] that it was written by a journalist who got the
>    facts screwed up, or [d] no such publication as you claim exists.
>
>>	As to their status right now, I would refer you to the Simon
>>Wiesenthal Center site, "Response to Revisionist Arguments", No.12.
>>"Didn't Simon wiesenthal himself state that there were no
>>extermination camps in Germany?" We will notice that Simon Wiesenthal
>>did not word it like 'Isn't it true that at one time camps in Germany,
>>including Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald, were once put forth as being
>>extermination camps and now this past assertion is not held, even by
>>Mr.Wiesenthal himself?'
>
>    Correct, there were no "extermination camps" in Germany.  The
>    extermination camps were in the East in Poland.  There were many camps
>    in Germany but these were concentration camps.  Some people died in
>    these German camps.  There were limited experiments with gassing, there
>    probably were limited experiments with human soap, so some people did
>    but in general these were not extermination camps.
>
>>	Maybe you can employ some special cant to say why Wiesenthal
>>would even heve a question like this.
>
>    Yes.  It is a common denier tactic to say that "even Simon Wiesenthal
>    claims there were no extermination camps in Germany during WW II."  If
>    a denier makes the above statement with no qualifier that the
>    extermination camps were in Poland, it appears to the naive reader that
>    Simon Wiesenthal is admitting that there were no extermination camps. 
>    SWC has the question and answer in place to address this denier point.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:24 PDT 1996
Article: 48725 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Poster's Progress" (Was Hate Hate Hate ....)
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:25:22 GMT
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Lines: 23
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>
>The Topic, introduced by Mr. Moran (who later in the thread - or
>perhaps elsewhere - expressed his pride in the number of posts under
>this thread), was entitled "Nizkor Invite Accepted"  [circa Nov.
>10/95]  The full text of the post to which I was responding is
>available on Nizkor.  [All parenthetical comments below in original]

	Summary of what went on in this post is, Jamie McCarthy, one time
co-webmaster of Nizkor sent me some e-mail accepting a critique of
Nizkor. I posted "Nizkor Invite Accepted".
	It ended up as a long thread where the whole Nizkor staff and
their blind followers all bantering about between each other passing
recipes and asking Moran, where are the "URLs" to referrences I made
to Nizkor, even though their own directions in the website refer
people to "links" and you can't get a URL until you click one up.
	As it turned out, "Nizkor Invite Accepted" never was really
accepted. Hilary has supplied the path for this exchange. I don't know
if it is all there or not. Generally the dossiers on people in Nizkor
files are pieces of threads. Anyway Hilary has challenged people to
look it up.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48732 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:51:32 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 46
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	And Hilary just keeps going and going.

>                The Best of Nizkor; 
>
>              Hilary Ostrov representing,
>
 Her latest 7/5/1996

In <4rj43b$36ea@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie
Farber) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>
>>     	"Hungary to Compensate Jews for Wartime Losses"
>>                    N.Y.Times, July 4, 1996
>article snipped:
>Tommy opines:
>>	Well, 600,000 Jews killed? Well, sometimes its 500,000, and
>>sometimes is 400,000, and sometimes 200,000.

>Bernie Farber responds:

>No Mr. Moron, only in your feverish and confused mind.

QED ... almost daily.

>It is typical of Holocust deniers to obfuscate, lie and bend the facts.

Indeed .... QED ... definitely daily.

>Time to give up the ghost.

So did you, too, detect the occasional hand of a ghost-writer behind
the Moranic keyboard of late?

Posted/e-mailed

hro
=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48733 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Open Gallon of Paint - paint one door - throw the rest away
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:53:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 40
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what
>you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what
>you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your
>claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical
>material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves
>you're lying.

	What the former professor is saying here is about the same thing
he came to say after the first post, only there he was raving about
"Moronic mathematics". I then pressed him for a mathematical rebuttal
but he just kept slinking off to the "Moronic mathematical" kid stuff.
As is evident and existing in the post itself is the figuring was done
on numbers he gave himself. It is the record of the post that I gave
the Holocaust promotional side a righteous accomodation on the numbers
I used.
	As I finally was driven to do by the insulting evasions of the
former professor in the previous two postings, I will give the numbers
not giving the side any accomodation.
	Using the "40" number supplied by the former professor, that
would be evaporated in the first half hour, and using a 5 minute time
for the killing to take place, and not stretching any numbers in
favor for the Holoaust story, the amount that would be used and/or
needed to kill the people would be more like 7 1/2% with 92 1/2% left
over, not used, not necessary, making the allegation it was used for
the purpose idiotic.

	The former professor here, is the same onetime professor that
said he was going to post the Degesch (makers of Zyklon B) patent and
manual, which would tell all, which he hasn't done to this day, months
later.

	Instead of alluding to a previous "technical material", he should
be just presenting it and then we could go from there.  
	
	The only thing that comes of the former professor's persistance
in challenging the simple mathematical conclusions with his belches of
"lies" is to further draw repeated attention to his own shortcomings.	

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:27 PDT 1996
Article: 48734 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can Tom Moran Read? (Re: Racism in Holocaust books)
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:53:34 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># V.                         Raul Hilberg,
>#             "The Destruction of European Jews"
>#
># "On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
># Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
># Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
># Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
># postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
># laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
># to speak, nonexistent'".
>#        Stupid Russians.
>
>Unless you misquoted the text, it's obvious that Hilberg is quoting
>the German officer, not giving his opinion.
>
># Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
># Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"
>
>See above. Who is making the claim? Hilberg? Or is he quoting the
>German officer?

	Why? And how do we know any truth of the quote? Now why would
Hilberg include this in his book? 

	And why did you not address the other examples? Was it because
you couldn't think of an angle like the above?

>Have you considered the possibility that you are senile, and that
>you cannot understand simple written text? Maybe it's time to join
>Giwer and retire?
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:28 PDT 1996
Article: 48735 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE IS SHUT DOWN
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:53:42 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## Unlike "leading revisionist" Ernst Zundel, I do not believe
>## in silencing those who do not agree with me. As many people
>## have said - let the "revisionist" neo-Nazi scum be out here 
>## in the open, for all the world to see.
>

"revisionist" neo-Nazi scum". 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 17:02:28 PDT 1996
Article: 48736 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:53:55 GMT
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"Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations"
                L.A.Times, July 6, 1996

"Rome --Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the
anti-Semitic laws of facism--but insists the money must come from the
country's own Jewish community.
	Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry's demand is
'repugnant' called on the gavernment this week to stop it.
	The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the
Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000
inreparations, ...."

	The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as
having a beef with the order.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 18:42:40 PDT 1996
Article: 48746 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Construction in Auschwitz
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:59:20 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
>department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
>[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
>1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
>the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
>planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
>on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
>cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
>been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
>should be ready by February 20th.

	Of course this letter, or piece of letter as it may be, says
nothing about any extermination of people. It does say something about
a "gassing cellar" which would make sense since lice were a big
problem and there were many people in the complex. 
	As happens so often with evidence submitted for the Holocaust
story it raises questions about other points of the story. We can see
that it says something about "restrictions" in the rail service, which
shows the Germans were stretched in that department, which further
raises questions about all those rails said to have been used to carry
the numbers of people said to have been railed about, especially when
there were war needs at the forefornt for consideration.

>
>Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943
>[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
>the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door
>100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to
>the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of
>Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of
>double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame.

	Ah yes Pressac, the pharmicist. Well, if we have gassing cellars,
tha no one said were for humans, we should have sealable doors.

>
>
>Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler 
>estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours 
>in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 25 1943
>[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
>the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 247]
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1.) Crematorium I
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  3 x 2 muffles             340 persons
>
> 2.) Crematorium II
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons
>
> 3.) Crematorium III
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons 
>
> 4.) Crematorium IV
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  8 muffles                  768 persons
>
> 5.) Crematorium V
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  8 muffles                  768 persons
>
>
>(See 
>
>ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/pub/nizkor/camps/auschwitz/images/Furn_cap.jpg
>
>for a photo of this document).

	This is pretty funny. See "photo of this document". What about
the text, period. Where is it here? Pieces of testimony, pieces of
documents, fuzzy photos. Thats the way it goes with all the evidence
the former professor submits. 

>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 20:52:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48755 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:13:08 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>Indeed, and we are getting very tired of your tedious childish evasive
>ploys, Mr. Moran.

	Who is "we" Hilary?  


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 20:52:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48756 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:32:37 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <31de7777.2592954@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31da8509.893190@news.pacificnet.net> <3JUL199609415098@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dbcc2f.1599855@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608132479@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dd25e8.472080@news.pacificnet.net> 
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:


>Well, I suppose one could _also_ point his rigii at:
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

	These people are always directing the reader to the above,
instead of posting any incriminating material right out here. The
Nizkor files are in total disarray. For anyone wanting to have a look
at any of Moran's stuff, unchopped up into pieces of threads like
Nizkor's, can go to Deja News on the Internet and enter "Tom Moran".
>
>Mark
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 20:52:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48758 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 14:34:23 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	More of Hilary, 7/6/1996

"Indeed, Mr. Mittleman, you and Mr. Kelley would appear to be
excellent
teachers!  

Just the other day I was perusing my documentation for "The Morphing
of Tom Moran." [I'm sorry to report, btw, that both the NY and LA
Times have rejected this serialized manuscript - to which I offered
them first rights.  They said my writing was great, but that - despite
all the documented evidence provided in my text - none of their
respective readers would ever believe that such a twit actually exists
in either the real or the virtual world]

Lest we not *fully* appreciate just how _far_ Mr. Moran has come since
his pre-literacy phase, I offer the following repost of my response to
one of his earlier "efforts." "  




From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 20:52:27 PDT 1996
Article: 48759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Push, push, push
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 15:10:36 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <31de8097.4928365@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31dbc7b0.449451@news.pacificnet.net> <4JUL199608115015@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31dbfe0c.3795921@news.pacificnet.net> <4rk671$c5d@grivel.une.edu.au> <6JUL199607331703@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>>: 	Mr.Mittleman says it was only the older population that was sent
>>: to Auschwitz and only the teenagers were left behind.
>>: 
>>: 	Back to bed Mr.Mittleman.  
>
>    No zeyde, your reading comprehension is failing you again.  What I did
>    was present you with a testimony from the railway platform inside of
>    Auschwitz where the woman (Marianne F.) said that those under 14 and
>    over 35 were being put in one line and were then taken ot the gas
>    chambers while the remainder (between 14 and 35) were put in another
>    line, taken to a real shower, and admitted to the camp.

	This is what Mr.Mittleman said, "Not surprising since most of the
survivors would have been teens or young adults in 1945.  The older
population was put to death for the most part."
	Whether or not this is the "testimony" of the person or
Mr.Mittleman's remarks is evident. He didn't mention any "testimony".
	What he is saying now through the "testimony" is that people
between 14 and 35 are those "teens or young adults" he was referring
to.


>
>    All of these people were already at Auschwitz.  I didn't write anything
>    about how people were selected to get on the train.  (Personally, I am
>    unaware of a selection process at that end.)
>
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul  6 22:37:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48780 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who would be Gannon?
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 18:06:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 73
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References: <4cblcb$p1g@zippy.cais.net> <31dd2fc1.2993302@news.pacificnet.net>  <31DDD98A.3518@unb.ca> <4rm3i1$mr5@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

	An amazing post by Ken McVay. Truely McVay, my compliments to
you.


>In article <31DDD98A.3518@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:
>>Daniel Keren wrote:
>
>>> What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
>>> over again?
>
>>He wants to be the new Dan Gannon?
>
>Fat chance! He's got the whiney part down pretty fine, but he
>hasn't yet learned to:
>
>1. Call everyone who disagrees a VILE LITTLE LIAR!
>2. Post the same article, (we recommend a 50K IHR tract), to 80
>   newsgroups at the same time, 
>3. Irritate ISPs to the point where none of them will provide
>   you with an account, then
>4. Claim you have been censored and "banished" from the 
>   Internet. (Use the Internet to make this claim.)
>5. Provide sexually explicit material on your bbs and
>   run it as a commercial operation when you discover it is
>   less taxing intellectually than "Holocaust scholarship"
>6. Use at least three pseudonyms at the same time, but
>   make each one say VILE LITTLE LIAR at least once a day
>7. Threaten local gay businessmen/women, post their names
>   and addresses on the Internet at least twice, and
>   suggest that people "call them up and tell them what
>   you think of..." them, in the hope they will go out
>   of business. Do this in the name of free speech and
>   democracy and hope no one will notice the contradiction.
>8. Have your very own "alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum"
>   newsgroup created. If others won't do it for you, 
>   scream "I am not a NAZI you VILE LITTLE LIAR!" and
>   do it yourself.
>9. Explain that Negroes have smaller brains than everyone
>   else.
>10. Show photographs of dead bodies hanging from nails,
>   claim they are doctored because you can't see any rope.
>
>Tommy hasn't even begun to score points yet on the Gannon
>Scale of InterNet Abuse. Neither has Giwer, although Giwer has
>managed to achieve something Gannon did not.
>
>The real key to "being Gannon" is to accept the fact that
>"revisionism" is a lost cause, and flog sex instead.... all,
>of course, in the name of free speech.
>
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
>
>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.
>
>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>-----------------------| Prince Myshkin's Giwer Bait Sold Here
>                       |--------------------------------------
>     http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul  7 09:54:05 PDT 1996
Article: 48788 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: INTERNET SHOCKER from GORE --->>
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 20:07:13 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31dec76f.16005145@news.pacificnet.net>
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jdulaney@nntp.best.com (John Dulaney) wrote:

>	IF GORE is FOR the INTERNET we MUST realize the TERRIBLE TRUTH:
>	---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>	AS.....
>	Internet Access Providers are bought up, one-by-one, by larger
>	corps. and pressure is brought to bare we can only imagine that
>	POLITICAL WEB PAGES, NEWSGROUPS, FTP sites etc. will be
>
>	REMOVED/KILLED/CENSORED and/or CANCELED - possibly their authors
>	---------------------------------------
>	harassed, arrested or set-up and killed. All in the name of
>				National Security.
>				~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~
>	(Even now FBI infiltrators may have been behind the violence in
>	 most or all of the "militia" movements - with more "terrorist
>	 acts" propagated by these FBI men to come until Martial Law is "a
>	 regrettable final option". Then D-Calif. Tom Lantos-types can use
>	 Tom's favorite word "terminate" on us all.)
>
	 Another 1 in 10,000 who is aware and willing to speak out.

	  Thank you for this post.
                                               Tom Moran	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul  7 09:54:05 PDT 1996
Article: 48790 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 20:07:20 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

      Yet another idiotic, inconsequential meaningless response from
Hilary.  July 6, 1996  

"
Noting however that in his time here Ehrlich has made countless errors
of fact that are clearly wrong, numerous claims that he refuses to
substantiate and expresses opinions which, although contrary to known
facts, he excuses under the rubric of skepticism (possibly because his
books are in the attic),  I conclude that his text should be used with
extreme care and that, when so doing, it's affinity to the party line
of "revisionism" and its errors should be clearly stated.


In addition, if we are going to give Ehrlich any credence, we should
bear in mind that the archives of this newsgroup are littered with
threads that he has left dangling - while questions addressed to him
remain unanswered and refutations of his arguments are unacknowledged.
Finally, we should recognize that the posting behaviour of a boorish
foul-mouthed troll for at least Ehrlich and DvdThomas is totally
acceptable and that they imagine he is worthy of respect.
                                                         "
hro


=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:19 PDT 1996
Article: 48853 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:44:17 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <31dfbe6b.728195@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31de7b84.3629938@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
>"Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations"
>                L.A.Times, July 6, 1996
>
>"Rome --Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the
>anti-Semitic laws of facism--but insists the money must come from the
>country's own Jewish community.
>	Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry's demand is
>'repugnant' called on the gavernment this week to stop it.
>	The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the
>Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000
>inreparations, ...."
>
>	The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as
>having a beef with the order.

	Seems that maybe more and more people around the world are
starting to become aware of Holocaust revisionism and are taking a
closer look.  Once the full recognition takes place and the global
acceptance is the majority, then there will be the looking back phase.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:19 PDT 1996
Article: 48856 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 14:09:36 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other
threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her
ongoing alt.rev. dossier "The Best of Nizkor", she comes out and
pastes her own.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:20 PDT 1996
Article: 48884 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:00 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <31e02f22.10602062@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

And yet another.

7/7/96
The Giwer-troll provides further corroboration of Mike Stein's
assessment in another thread that he (the troll)  lacks the intellect,
intelligence or comprehension skills to be able to contribute in any
meaningful way in a discussion of the history of the Holocaust.  

If anything is laughable it is that the troll deludes himself by
thinking that he is capable of participating in any debate.

[balance snipped]

hro


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:21 PDT 1996
Article: 48885 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:01 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31e02f27.10607445@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

And another

7/7/96
I do recall seeing approximately two such mild rebukes from Ehrlich.
But hardly anything that I would consider a reflection of one who has
a strong distaste for expression by others of anti-Semitic/racist
sentiments.  Then again, perhaps Ehrlich has his own definition of
anti-Semitism.  Perhaps he would care to share with us his definition
as well as reposting these purported criticisms.  Just to refresh our
memory.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:22 PDT 1996
Article: 48886 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31e02f2c.10612004@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <4rp9oq$15r@atlas.uniserve.com>
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:
>
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>	Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other
>>threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her
>>ongoing alt.rev. dossier "The Best of Nizkor", she comes out and
>>pastes her own.
>
>Hmmm ... very interesting Mr. Moran.  I suppose you think I must be
>absolutely *crushed* by your characterization of my posting behaviour.
>Well, I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but I rather think that your
>comments, insults and "descriptions" tell us _far_ more about _you_
>and _your_ abilities (or lack thereof)  than they do about me or mine.

	This is absolutely poetic. Here we have a post dedicated as a
repository for her comments and insults and she comes back with a
hidious complaint about it by referring to comment on her stuff as
"insults".

	IDIOT.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:22 PDT 1996
Article: 48887 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <31e02f31.10616892@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

And ol' Hilary just keeps rolling and rolling along.

7/7/96

Hmmm ... and would this be called "The Rule of Tom's Thumb" or "Tom's
Rule of Thumb"?

"Revisionist scholarship".  Amazing!  Simply amazing!

hro


=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:23 PDT 1996
Article: 48948 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:56:33 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31e0328c.11475864@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <31e02f31.10616892@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

And yet another.  We might think Hilary could be getting a note form
the Big Mommy telling her to fall back into the shadows. I mean what
kind of organization would want what Hilary is putting out to
represent them. 

7/7/96

Setting aside the fact that the perceived _colour_ of the pellets has
little bearing (in fact none that I can see) on the reality of the
_use_ of pellets, it is also possible that differences in perception
of colour can be attributed to a variant of colour-blindness.  If
memory serves me correctly, the incidence of colour-blindness in males
is approximately 1:10. (There is considerable literature available
addressing this issue.)

[text deleted for brevity]

>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:24 PDT 1996
Article: 48949 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Pointed Question from the Denier in Search of a Persona (Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:56:36 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>For lil tommy numbnuts
>
>From Chuck Ferree:
>
>You know who we is, lil tommy. It's all the bright folks who shoot you 
>down when you ask dumb questions, and write childlike posts. Other 
>that a known anti-semite, and bigoted person, who are you really?
>And who cares, really!
>Chuck

Leave it up to Chuck to come out in defense of Hilary, when even McVay
and the others refrain from endorsing her inane stuff. Well "Birds of
a feather post together".



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:24 PDT 1996
Article: 48963 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nwgw.infi.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Inquiry regarding the closure of the CODOH / Brad Smith web-site
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:38:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

	Mr.Mittleman feigns support for free speech, but,


>    I fully understand that CODOH has no First Amendment right to
>    access to psnw; I fully understand that all that is legally at
>    play is their contract with you and any content rules which are
>    referred to in that contract.
>
>    However, I am concerned about this from a bigger picture.  I
>    believe that it is important to provide revisionists, deniers,
>    anti-semites, and nazis full access to put forward their messages. 
>   


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:25 PDT 1996
Article: 48998 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yet Another $$$$$$/Holocaust Connection
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:40:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 22
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>	
>"Ctitics Decry Order That Jews Pay Themselves War Reparations"
>                L.A.Times, July 6, 1996
>
>"Rome --Italy has ordered reparations to Jews who suffered under the
>anti-Semitic laws of facism--but insists the money must come from the
>country's own Jewish community.
>	Some Parliment members, saying the Treasury Ministry's demand is
>'repugnant' called on the gavernment this week to stop it.
>	The Ministry issued injunctions in September and Janurary for the
>Union of Irtalian Jewish Communities to pay up to 327,000
>inreparations, ...."
>
>	The article cites only one member of the Parliment by name as
>having a beef with the order.

	Jewish recounting of their history always focuses on particular
incidents of backlash that happen here and there. Judging by a number
of recent incidents of standing up against Jewish demands, this time
around it seems to be taking place on a global scale.  


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 08:51:26 PDT 1996
Article: 48999 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:56:56 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net>
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	Hilary still exemplifying a statement, "To be ignorant of one's
ignorance is the malidy of the ignorant". In other words, 'To be so
stupid to be too stupid to realize your stupid'.

	hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <31de7421.1739255@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:
>
>>>Indeed, and we are getting very tired of your tedious childish evasive
>>>ploys, Mr. Moran.
>
>>	Who is "we" Hilary?  
>
>Since there appear to be a few (possibly several and, indeed maybe
>many) threads with the same name (all started by you know who) I
>thought I would rename this particular post.  The pause that
>refreshes, so to speak.
>
>[I shall refrain from observing that the correct formulation of the
>question should be "Who are 'we', Hilary?"]
>
>It is unfortunate that Mr. Moran seems to have overlooked his mentor's
>exhortation to "Play Ball!"   If Mr. Moran's powers of observation
>were such that he had sufficient skills to "read the newsgroup", he
>would not feel the need to ask this particular question.
>
>However, since he has put the question. so to speak, I  invite those
>who count themselves among the "we" to so identify themselves.  Such
>identification will provide a program by which Mr. Moran *may* be able
>to *tell the players.*
>
>Thank you for your co-operation in this educational effort (above and
>beyond the call of duty)
>
>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>
 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul  8 19:57:05 PDT 1996
Article: 49024 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:05:20 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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	Half of the 6,000,000 Jews said to have been exterminated are
said to have been from Poland.
	Germany is said to have had 300,000 or so. All the surrounding
nations are said have had anywhere from a few thousand to a hundred
thousand.
	There must have been a reason why there would be more Jews in
Poland than all those put together in the immediate surrounding
nations, not counting the Soviet Union.
	The predicted answer to this, if not already put forth, is that
they were persecuted in the other nations more so, and this is why
there were so many Jews in Poland.
	One list used by the Holocausts promotional network to cite
prewar Jewish populations in European counties, is one said to have
come from the Germans themselves. This list cited 700,000 Jews in
France, which is now put at 70,000. This same list cites 700,000 said
to have been in Hungary. 
	Three million Jews in prewar Poland? Of course almost all of the
extermination camps are said to have been in Poland, and there would a
terrible problem with trying to show that many more millions were
brought in from surrounding areas if this prewar 3,000,000 Polish Jews
did not exist. All kinds of questions would have be answered which
would further stress the account abilities of the story. 
	This is real convenient to have 3,000,000 of the exterminated
coming from the immediate area.
	My general rule in viewing Holocaust numbers is, if they are set
big to magnify the story I divide them by 10 and if they are set small
to facilitate the story I multiply them by 10. 		 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 07:37:23 PDT 1996
Article: 49155 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:52:30 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 37
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:
>
>>>In <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>>>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:
>>>
>>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>
>>>>	Not only is Hilary so stupid as to post her examples in other
>>>>threads, where Moran simply spirits them away to pastes them in her
>>>>ongoing alt.rev. dossier "The Best of Nizkor", she comes out and
>>>>pastes her own.
>>>
>>>Hmmm ... very interesting Mr. Moran.  I suppose you think I must be
>>>absolutely *crushed* by your characterization of my posting behaviour.
>>>Well, I'm really sorry to disappoint you, but I rather think that your
>>>comments, insults and "descriptions" tell us _far_ more about _you_
>>>and _your_ abilities (or lack thereof)  than they do about me or mine.
>
>>	This is absolutely poetic. Here we have a post dedicated as a
>>repository for her comments and insults and she comes back with a
>>hidious complaint about it by referring to comment on her stuff as
>>"insults".
>
>>	IDIOT.
>
>	Now that is an insult to idiots. 
	
	Thanks for pointing this out Giwer. We all can go astray at
times. 

	To all idiots. Tom Moran apologizes.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 07:37:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49157 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIGGER COWARDS
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:57:30 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 9
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References: <31DF89E4.1F72@hkabc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net

Doctor JJ  wrote:

>NIGGER COWARDS
>
>by
>Doctor J.J.

	This guy could be a 'plant'. In the event he isn't, I would point
out he uses the word "coward" and signs with a alias. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 12:46:43 PDT 1996
Article: 49203 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can Tom Moran Read? (Re: Racism in Holocaust books)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:52:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31e006f4.316422@news.pacificnet.net>
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dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:

>dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>>See above. Who is making the claim? Hilberg? Or is he quoting the
>>German officer?
>
>	I bet Tom Moran will either ignore you or post an irrelevant reply.
>
>>Have you considered the possibility that you are senile, and that
>>you cannot understand simple written text? Maybe it's time to join
>>Giwer and retire?
>
>	I'm not so sure Moran will do that - not in the forseeable future,
>anyway.
>
>	Derek

	I would liken your stuff to a football game. We have the players
who get out there and do the central process and the cheer leaders.
>
>-- 
>Derek Bell  dbell@maths.tcd.ie  WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
>           Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
>                    George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
>                       _The Rejected Statement_



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 12:46:44 PDT 1996
Article: 49214 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:56:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31e03296.11485916@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:



	Its not even necessary to read Hilary's stuff to see if it's a
continuation of her inane stuff before posting it under her ongoing
dossier. You know it is. So whatever it says below, yopu know it's
idiotic.

7/7/96

Not to worry, Giwer-troll.  I wasn't including you in the "we".  If
you had been following the newsgroup you would have figured that out
all by yourself.  And your friend has already beaten you to the punch
on this *brilliant* pointed question.

I have started a new thread to address this question.  With your 163
IQ, you should have no difficulty figuring out which one it is.

hro

=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 12:46:45 PDT 1996
Article: 49231 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 12:23:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>CODOH@msn.com (Bradley Smith) writes:
>
># Even little Danny Keren 
>
>Hmm. "Little"? In terms of body weight? Compared to you? Sure.
>
>Hope I'm still "fit for work", nontheless? Can still do 'bout
>50 push-ups and 15 pull-ups, on a good day.
>
># is against this sort of Stalinist move to harass and if possible 
># control an open debate on the Holocaust Controversy. 
>
>As I said, I prefer to wait and see *exactly* why the site was
>closed. Ok, big guy? As I said, if it's *only* because of the
>so-called "revisionist" views, I strongly protest this action.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
	It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former
professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever the case
may be, to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any
statement he says in support of free speech I see as just a tacit
approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. 
	My personal opinion based on my long time experience of
witnessing the factions constant barrage against open debate about the
Holocaust or Zionism.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 12:46:46 PDT 1996
Article: 49233 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:49:26 GMT
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Lines: 8
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>
>
>This has something to do with Levi Strauss, right?

Insufficient material. Do you have a continuation?



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 14:22:39 PDT 1996
Article: 49244 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Odds Are
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:12:45 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <31d48fd5.5945521@news.pacificnet.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d2fb2f.23130620@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>> 
>>	It would seem that if someone claims they had lost 120, 160
>>or more relatives in the Holocaust, that some of them must have been
>>sondercommandos who performed most of the grizzly deeds of the
>>extermiantion process, such as, shoving the victims into gas chambers,
>>pulling the teeth out of dead bodies, cutting their stomachs open in
>>search of swallowed valuables, stuffing the remains into ovens,
>>tossing them into firey pits.
>> 
>>	The story has it there were those firey pits, and four
>>extermination facilities. The story has it these sondercommands were
>>killed every two weeks or so and then a new batch was brought in. This
>>would be, say 200 or so every two weeks, times say, 100+ two week
>>periods, being 20,000+ altogether.	
>> 
>>	The odds are ...?
>
>    Well, if there were 6,000,000 Jewish victims of the Holocaust and
>    20,000 were sondercommandos then that is about .33 percent or one in
>    300.  So, without knowing any more about the person who lost 120 to 160
>    relatives we would estimate that it is much less than 50/50 odds that
>    one of them was a sondercommando.
>
	Then you are saying that all 6,000,000 were put to death in the
"extermination camps"?

>    But if one or more was, so what?  If your grandfasther was a horse
>    theif it doesn't make YOU and better or worse person, does it?
>
>
	What about the ADL rabbi who said,  "Especially after the
Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the
Jews". Some of these Christians are just little kids. 

	Evil little Christian Children.
 
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 14:22:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49256 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.california,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.oj-simpson,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: African Americans?d
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 02:19:25 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31e1c0e1.13746519@news.pacificnet.net>
References:  <01bb63aa.12587dc0$7207bace@utopia.odyssee.net>  <31D2508A.E86@ix.netcom.com>  <31DF8E87.25F@hkabc.net>
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Doctor JJ  wrote:

>Lady wrote:
>> 
>> In article <31D806C7.2C5F@unb.ca> Keith Morrison  writes:
>> >From: Keith Morrison 
>> >Subject: Re: African Americans?
>> >Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 14:11:35 -0300
>> 
>> >Les Griswold wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Greg Goss (oreo@mindlink.bc.ca) writes:
>> >> > bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Greg Goss (oreo@mindlink.bc.ca) writes:
>> >> >>> Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> 
>> >Speaking of gross mistatements, would you care to inform us how
>> >many Native Americans were there before 1492 and how many there
>> >are now?
>> 
>> >--
>> >Keith Morrison
>> >t08o@unb.ca
>> 
>> I'm sure the Caribe Indians would like to contribute to that discussion also.
>> Oops!  There aren't any more. Columbus and the good Fathers made sure of that.
>> 
>> LadySnow
>
>The American Indians did not live in peace and harmony with each other 
>before the white man came along.  War was common among most tribes.
>Columbus and the good Fathers did bring order, civilization, and 
>relative peace to the Americas.

	Generally I just delete anything with titles like the one here,
without even bothering to look at them. 

	You are absolutely right in saying the American Indians did not
live in peace with each other. There was constant war fare between
tribes, like anywhere else.

	As far as the "good Fathers"? Look around. I mean grope around,
your blind.



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 17:13:30 PDT 1996
Article: 49274 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 13:18:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <31e10a82.397217@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
>	                       [repost]
>	
>	"Lizard" (Lizard@dnai.com) wrote in "Re:Simon Wiesenthal Center's
>*previous* internet censorship attempts"

	Actually what the racist has put forth in his statement posted
above is thoroughly unsupportable. The only thing that could be put
forth with massive evidence as support, is the reverse.


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul  9 17:13:31 PDT 1996
Article: 49276 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor's  FTP Archive
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 21:31:38 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
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"Duncan Coons" <104670.3420@compuserve.com> wrote:

>And what on earth is FAIR doing squeezed in with Hamas, the National
>Alliance, and the KKK? FAIR's chairman, Dan Stein, and its Director of
>Media Outreach, Ira Mehlman, are both Jewish, yet that didn't save their
>organization from an ADL report, which Nizkor dutifully reproduces. Does
>opposing current American immigration policy really constitute hate? And
>what possible interest does a largely Canadian group devoted to combatting
>holocaust revisionism have in the immigration debate south of the border?

	If this is the FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In 
Reporting), this organization was started about ten years ago or more
and at that time was headed by a Jeff Cohen, I believe. They put out a
publication called "EXTRA" which listed a number of abstract and
wayout topics that should be considered for biased reporting. The
first issue carried an article by a person from Israel, which was
loaded with between the lines innuendos that would have the reader
think it was taking issue with Zionist practices, but in reality was a
sales job. I took FAIR's listing of wayout topics deserving of
consideration for lopsided reporting as an attempt to dilute the
energies of anyone concerned with biased reporting so as to take their
attention away from the most biased of all biased, reporting on
anything Zionist.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 12:40:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49445 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Actions of the Righteous and Who Needed Zyclone B
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:43:08 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 10
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	Legacy of the world that plays chess thinking only one move at a
time.

	           "Tons of chemical weapons dumped by
                   the Allies after World War II,
                   have nudged the sea to the brink of
                    catastrophe, scientists say." 



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 12:40:04 PDT 1996
Article: 49446 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:43:15 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <31e3a55e.582864@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

Correction: 
>
>	Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would
>have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn't ... 
(80 to mean, 80 percent.)




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:12 PDT 1996
Article: 49484 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIGGER COWARDS
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:44:29 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <31e3a5a3.651410@news.pacificnet.net>
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote:
>
>> Doctor JJ  wrote:
>> 
>> >NIGGER COWARDS
>> >
>> >by
>> >Doctor J.J.
>> 
>> 	This guy could be a 'plant'. In the event he isn't, I would point
>> out he uses the word "coward" and signs with a alias. 
>
>I think that he may be a plant as well.  Possibly a rutabaga.  You, Mr.
>Moran, are most likely some other kind of vegetable.
>
>P.S.: what if, instead of insulting blacks, "JJ" had insulted Jews?  Would
>you praise him for an "excellent" article?

	Depends on whether or not I recognized it as a lie or the truth.

>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:14 PDT 1996
Article: 49485 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIGGER COWARDS
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:44:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 30
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <31e248a6.3892754@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>Doctor JJ  wrote:
>>
>>>NIGGER COWARDS
>>>
>>>by
>>>Doctor J.J.
>>
>>	This guy could be a 'plant'. 
>
>    Quite a few people seem to think you're close to being in a persistent
>vegetative state yourself, Tommy.  "Couch potato," judging by the research
>skills you've demonstrated so far in matters such as the menorah case.
>
>
>>In the event he isn't, I would point
>>out he uses the word "coward" and signs with a alias. 
>
>    A lot of your friends sign with aliases.  Haven't you noticed?

	No. Can you show it?
>
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:14 PDT 1996
Article: 49486 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:57:48 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>	There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>
>	It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>history.  
>
>	Do not believe me.
>
>	Read your fine bible.
>
>	Then get back to me.
>

	The exact passages can be found in "Deuteronomy", "Numbers" and
"Joshua".

	They usually end up with something like 'and none remained, young
and old'.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 15:56:15 PDT 1996
Article: 49487 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:44:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <31e3a58c.628506@news.pacificnet.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former
># professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever 
># the case may be, 
>
>Ah, that old inferiority complex kicks in. Perhaps you'll
>clarify your statement about me being an "impersonating professor"?

	The worm went out and you bit. By "impersonating professor" I
mean that for months I referred to you as "professor" or "the
professor", and suddenly, after my addressing you as that scores of
times,  you informed me you weren't really a professor but some kind
of engineer.


>
># to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any
># statement he says in support of free speech I see as just 
># a tacit approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. 
>
>So, nazi-boy, it doesn't matter what I say, it only matters
>what you think I really mean? 

I only think what you mean by putting all my experiences with your
stuff ahead of your statement that you support free speech. Many
people say something, then when you look at their whole, it implies
something else. Look, you have called me a Nazi again. Your associated
with defending the Holocaust, you are associated with web sites that
imply the Nazi connection to denierism, those people are avctively
involved with trying to block the discussion. "Birds of a feather,
flock together". If you rant on scores of posts and then say something
that doesn't fit with the majority, then I think whatever I think.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 10 17:31:49 PDT 1996
Article: 74550 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31e3b23c.3876276@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31e3b23c.3876276@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:41:52 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:19 PDT 1996
Article: 49510 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Official Nizkor Code of Responding
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:19:32 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <31e3ad43.2603499@news.pacificnet.net>
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree for lil tommy:
>The we is us. Me, and others capable of objective and rational 
>thinking.
>We read a lot too!
>Chuck

	Just keep posting Chuck. Everytime you do, you step on yourself.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:20 PDT 1996
Article: 49518 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email 'bombings'?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:13:51 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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ruthsommer@aol.com (RuthSommer) wrote:

	When your position sucks and you can't hold up to the challenge,
try harassnment. If any revisionsits get e-bombed its by children, not
necessarily chronological children.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:20 PDT 1996
Article: 49522 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:43:15 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Message-ID: <31e44df2.4437994@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

And more.

7/10/96

Your "very honest view"?  Oh, dear!  I rather think that those who
hold and present an "honest view" would have no need to so proclaim.
To my mind, "honest views" are usually self-evident.  

If your view were "honest" you would, instead of merely "dismissing"
the evidence, present a logical and rational _alternative_ explanation
of the facts.  But to the extent that you have declined to do so, I
shall concede that you are among those who mistakenly call themselves
"revisionists."

hro
=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:21 PDT 1996
Article: 49525 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Without Jewish genes, Goyems would be nothing
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:27:09 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31e449ed.3409139@news.pacificnet.net>
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>
>	This has something to do with Levi Strauss, right?
>
>In article <31e2473d.3531732@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	Insufficient material. Do you have a continuation?
>
>Once again, Mr. Moran demonstrates his utter confusion and lack of a
>sense of humor.

	Moran uses sense of humor all the time. Katz never uses it,
unless he thinks his witty little barbs are humor. Katz is uptight.
Keep an eye on Katz's stuff he won't be able to deliver. 

>
>--
>Harry Katz
>
>Love those who reprove thee, and hate those who flatter thee; for
>reproof may lead thee to eternal life, flattery to destruction.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:22 PDT 1996
Article: 49540 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:24:22 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Message-ID: <31e44954.3256777@news.pacificnet.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31e2474c.3546232@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>	Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would
>>have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn't for them
>>being barred from trade unions. 
>
>    "80 or more"?  If you are saying "would have made up 80% or more", no
>    that is not what I said.  Why would I have said that a group composed
>    of 2% of the population could have made up 80% of all trade unionists? 
>    80% of all trade unionists is much more than 2% of the population (my
>    off the top of my head estimate would be about 16% of the population,
>    or eight times the number of Jews in the country.)

	This is what Mr. Mittleman said:

    "I don't know.  I would guess it to be less than 80% for two
reasons: 
    One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade
unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific
fields.  And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to
College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those
education levels."
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:23 PDT 1996
Article: 49541 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRADLEY SMITH'S WEBSITE SHUT DOWN
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:43:52 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote:
>
>> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> 
>> >As I said, I prefer to wait and see *exactly* why the site was
>> >closed. Ok, big guy? As I said, if it's *only* because of the
>> >so-called "revisionist" views, I strongly protest this action.
>
>> 	It would be a tactical error for the likes of the former
>> professor, or the former impersonating professor, whichever the case
>> may be, to come out and downright endorse the censorship. Any
>> statement he says in support of free speech I see as just a tacit
>> approval to give the illusion he is for free speech. 
>
>Tom Moran is a genius at reading between the lines!  He knows that the
>words "I strongly protest this action" REALLY mean "I support this action,
>but I really am very happy about it, but I'm saying I protest it in an
>attempt to fool clever fellows like Tom Moran, who always knows what
>people really mean."
>
>I guess this is what Tom Moran means by critical thinking...
>
	You've heard of the term "writing between the lines" haven't you?
Its a term that is recognized as meaning people will feign one thing
but then write in innuendos. "Writing between the lines", a well known
term. 
	 

>
>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:23 PDT 1996
Article: 49543 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:42:38 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>	There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>
>	It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>history.  

	It might not be the "first written record", this I don't know,
but it is the only one around that boast of killing little kids as a
righteous tenet of their religion.

	But then, god told them to do it.




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:24 PDT 1996
Article: 49544 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Genocide
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:44:03 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:
>
>>	There have been any objections to genocide on this newsgroup.
>>
>>	It is amusing to note that so few have read their bibles to realize that
>>the Israelites have the first written record of genocide in human
>>history.  
>
>	It might not be the "first written record", this I don't know,
>but it is the only one around that boast of killing little kids as a
>righteous tenet of their religion.
>
>	But then, god told them to do it.
>
	That is, their god.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 07:23:25 PDT 1996
Article: 49592 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 11:50:41 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Heres an interesting situation. Mr.Mittleman says the Jews would
have made up 80 or more of the American artisans if it wasn't for them
being barred from trade unions. 

>As to the statement, 'One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he
>(Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.' 
>
>	Danny Mittleman, staunch defender of anything Holocaust story responed:
>    "I don't know.  I would guess it to be less than 80% for two
>reasons: 
>    One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade
>unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific
>fields.  And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to
>College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those
>education levels."

	And Yehuda Bauer says the Jews were responsible for the trade
unions. 

>VIII (a).  According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, "A
>History of the Holocaust":
>	"The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large
>measure to the leadership of it's many Jewish members."

	One should expect a 'creative' excuse should be forth coming.




From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 11:55:38 PDT 1996
Article: 49701 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:42:00 GMT
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		Behold the lie, tell your friends.

	For those who are new to investigating whether or not the
Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory
sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it
comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It
is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves.

	A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced.
After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism"
those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have
had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the
previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been
exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of
1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to
keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the
Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter
so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision
process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a
bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace,
style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. 

	As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at
Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I
give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

                            --------
	
       "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put
at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the
former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million.
Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust
are much lower than previously thought?"

*("well over" meaning 4 million)

	The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an
"invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R.,
"to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely
overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau
by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the
figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that
their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims".
       
        Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just
go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic.

	"The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust
has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures."

                             ---------

	Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall
6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at
Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000
down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to
see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a
blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader.
	
  
   Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the
   Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews
	
   Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz 
   dead at about 2,300,000.
 
   "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_.  Chicago: World Book,
   1980.  2,500,000

   Billig, Joseph.  _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du
   Reich hitlerien_.  Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973.
   pp 101-102. 2,000,000

   Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974.  p
   855.  1,000,000 to 2,500,000

   Friedman, Filip.  _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_.
   Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich.  London:
   The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000

   Kamenetksy, Ihor.  _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_.  New
   Haven: College and University Press, 1961.  p174   2,500,000

   Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_.  Berlin,  1974, 157.  3,500,000 to

   4,500,000
   
   Wellers, Georges.  "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au
   camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 
   1,600,000
   
   Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz:
   Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_.  Reinbek bei
   Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211.  2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Czech, D.  "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte,"
   in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des
   Konzentrationslagers_.  Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof.  _Resistance in the Nazi concentration
   camps, 1933-1945_.  Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982,
   44. 	2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Madajczyk, Czeslaw.  _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce;
   okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_.  Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe,
   1970, 293-94.  2,800,000 to 4,000,000

   _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator
   encyklopedyczny_.  Warsaw: Panst.  Wydaw.  Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Nora Levin's "The Holocaust",  2,000,000 to 2,300,000
  
   Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991
   Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000

   
                             -------

	So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the
6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with
the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence
to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite
anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which
would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those
numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000
Jews.

	This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our
daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to
death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at
Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of
those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite
anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what
number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to
have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews,
to see how wide spread the figures are.
	
	Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization
involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust
story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they
are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are
committing a lie. 
	In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal
Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the
pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the
record straight? 				    
	It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the
initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact
struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be
suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust
beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were.

       	     Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends

	How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz?
	How many do you think were Jewish?

	The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000
or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to
yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust
beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was
always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later.
	
	WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story
has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a
number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping
away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed
"anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis".
	
	
		

















quatchen



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 11 18:47:08 PDT 1996
Article: 49747 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 00:32:21 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:42:05 GMT,
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>	IDIOT.
>
>In article <4rt1tj$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
>Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) takes exception:
>
>	Now that is an insult to idiots. 
>
>At least Mr. Giwer admits to being an idiot!  Seems that Mr. Giwer is
>intelligent enough to know when he is being insulted after all!

	I think the time is drawing nigh for a "The Best of Katz".
>
>--
>Harry Katz
>
>The just of all nations have a portion in the future reward.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 12 07:00:56 PDT 1996
Article: 49857 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why don't historians deny the Holocaust? (Was Re: Revisionism Defined)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:22:31 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 55
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:
>
>> On 8 Jul 1996 21:07:09 -0400, sf924@aol.com (SF924) wrote [re. Mr.
>Hagen's "Revisionism defined]:
>> 
>> >But you have to come to grips with a very serious fact: no historian or 
>> >academic, who is not also pushing a neo-Nazi or similar agenda, seems to
>> >support your position.  The only people who seem to support your position
>> >are those persons with a strong political or personal bias either to
>> >rehabilitate Nazism, Hitler or facism or denounce its victims, i.e. Jews
>> >and other lesser races.  Much of the recvisionist thinking plays on
>> >earlier Nazi-style propoganda: i.e.  the Jews control the world.  
>> 
>> >Until serious mainstream academics come to support your position, your
>> >position will be viewed as part of the lunatic fringe, and justifiably so.
>> 
>> 	Excuse me sir.  Mainstreme Acedemisians put their pants on one leg at a
>> time just like the rest of us and have to achieve the same standards as
>> anyone else in what they say.
>
>Actually, mainstream academicians generally hold themselves, and each
>other, to higher standards in their writing than they would expect to see
>in general public discourse.  That's why academic journals are subject to
>"blind" peer reviews, where submitted articles are screened by
>several readers who get a copy of the article with the author's name
>removed. It's not a perfect system, but it's pretty rigorous.
>
>> 	Anyone in the least familiar with academic politics (as in any other
>> power structure) knows that any position/title/chair is a bureaucratic
>> piece if shit.  
>
>While academic politics are indeed a serious problem in the business, that
>hardly makes _all_ scholarship invalid.  Within academe, for all its
>faults and bickering (sometimes over trivialities), there are wide
>variations in what is generally accepted in terms of theory and practice.
>Ideological debate is common and wide-ranging--I have had profs who ranged
>from Marxist to rock-bottom Tory in their politics.  Just asbout the only
>thing that these very diverse folks would agree upon is that pseudoscience
>(UFOs, "creationism," faith healing, etc) and pseudohistory (Holocaust
>denial, the Trilateral Commission Conspiracy, etc.) are demonstably bunk.
>
	This is Mr.Kelley barking up the academic credentials topic
again. Nothing proves academic degree guarantees anything. 

>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 12 12:26:06 PDT 1996
Article: 74847 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31e65eb6.7331169@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31e65eb6.7331169@news.pacificnet.net>
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From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 12 12:40:40 PDT 1996
Article: 49893 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:28:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

Here is an exchange that led up to Jamies claim he was going to be
getting the Degesch patent "anyday now". It started off with Moran
going over the release rate of Kyklon B with the former impersonating
professor Keren.

The professor had just gone through his usual indefinite posturing on
the the release rate.
 
"Dr. Ulrich Roessler, who often posts to this group, looked at
the original Zyklon patents in Germany. What they say seems
to totally contradict what you say above. Again, what is your
source? Please, do not quote other "revisionists", give a hard
source."
===

Moran:

"The source is the described product. Are you saying the
product wasn't designed for slow release? Lets make it easier on you,
Are you saying the product wasn't designed for gradual/extended
release? We can do away with the word 'slow'."
===

Jamie McCarthy jumped in:

"OK, that's fine.

The product was designed to "extend" the release of the gas over a
period of about ten minutes.

Do you think that's "gradual," Mr. Moran?"
===

Moran responded to Jamies "ten minutes" claim:

"Jamie, I want you to say something stupid again before I
smother your terse little witty reply.  Are you saying all the HCN
suspended in the Zyklon B medium was released in ten minutes? You say
it was 'designed' to release in ten minutes?"	
===

Jamie comes back:

	"Permit me to repeat myself.
The product, Zyklon-B, was designed to release all, or nearly all,
of its HCN gas over a period of about ten minutes.

Now, Mr. Moran, please proceed."
===

Moran proceeds:

	"According to a post by D. Keren, one study showed that Zyklon
B loses 40% of its suspended HCN in the first half hour, and according
to another study a bit more.'
===

Jamie backtracks:

	"By the way, I should correct myself:  I don't know that it was
Zyklon _B_ specifically, nor that the ten-minute release time was
accurate for all forms.  The statement I made is accurate for a
powder form of Zyklon, with appropriate application.  The release
time for the silica form of Zyklon B, given the application
technique used in the gas chambers, probably was rather longer."
===

Moran points out Jamie's backtrack:

	"'By the way, I should correct myself: I don't know that it was
Zyklon B specifically ...'"? 
===

Jamie:

"I underlined _B_ for a reason.  One of the Zyklon products was
designed to emit all or nearly all of its gas in about ten minutes.  I
don't know that it was Zyklon B.

The point, in any case, is that it was nowhere near the hours and
hours suggested by Holocaust-deniers."
===

Moran rightfully presses Jamie:

"Well Jamie, if there was a form of Zyklon that released all
its HCN in ten minutes it wasn't the B strain, which leaves us with
the question of why didn't the Germans use the more or less immediate
release form instead of one that would take at least an hour and a
half to release."
===

Jamie comes back with:

"I have yet to see any evidence from you demonstrating this.
Please put some documentation out on the table so that your claims
may be considered worthy of discussion.

My source for the ten-minutes figure, incidentally (I'm surprised you
didn't ask!), is the Zyklon patent.  I don't have a direct citation
for it yet, nor quotes, but it's been summarized for me by reliable
sources who have found it, in Europe, and whom I hope will send me
photocopies any day now."
===

It is obvious that Jamie tried to pull a fast one with 
"The product was designed to "extend" the release of the gas over a
period of about ten minutes."
 
The record of the thread shows the topic was the product "Zyklon B"
when Jamie jumped in with his "ten minutes". 

The record of the thread also shows that Jamie cited the product
"Zyklon B" explicitly:

"Permit me to repeat myself.
The product, Zyklon-B, was designed to release all, or nearly all,
of its HCN gas over a period of about ten minutes."

The record of the thread shows Jamie, like a little boy coming around:

"By the way, I should correct myself:  I don't know that it was
Zyklon _B_ specifically, nor that the ten-minute release time was
accurate for all forms. ..."


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:35 PDT 1996
Article: 49993 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,can.general,tor.general,ont.general
Subject: Re: [Press Release]  Freedom-Site suffers censorship from Pathway Communications
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:20:23 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.politics:57761 alt.revisionism:49993 alt.politics.white-power:35976 alt.politics.nationalism.white:25226 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1671 can.general:82844 ont.general:45865

ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie Farber) wrote:
>Bernie Farber responds:
>
>Hey Marc, such is the beauty of our capitalist system. Pathway communication has decided
>that it does not want you as a customer. This is it's right. You have the right to find another server.
>As for your financial problems with Pathway, small claims court is available to you.
>
>Personally, I applaud Pathway communications for its principles.
>
>BTW, Good luck finding another server.


	Maybe you could make a case for your position that Lemire's site
was guilty of whatever you have in your head as justifying any
closure. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:36 PDT 1996
Article: 49998 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nitzkor im Bau
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:21:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 11
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EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote:
>
>"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
>       -(Anatole France)

	In the fields of philosophy it is referred to "Argumentum ad
populum: availing the validity of an argument by citing others believe
it too.

History is loaded with examples of things people believed in enmass
which are no longer held as true today.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:37 PDT 1996
Article: 50011 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Photos make Holocaust story rediculous
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:39:32 GMT
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	In a aerial photograph taken by the Allies, May 31, 1944, of
Auschwitz I, the makeup of the camp is clearly discernable. One can
even see people in the areas between buildings.
	Auschwitz itself is a small area nestled among a wider complex of
other facilities. Narrow roads separate the buildings which have about
the same proximities of a dense packed American residentual area.
	In the photograph various buildings are captioned in association
with arrows. "Registration building, Camp kitchen" etc.
	Of course the "Gas chamber and Crematorium I" are pointed out,
and as it turns out, it is located right in among other buildings in
the camp itself and in close proximity to other buildings in adjacent
facilities. In fact some of those most immediate adjacent buildings
are identified as "Camp Admin.", "Commodants Office" and the most
adjacent buildings being the "SS Hospital" and the "Gestapos Office". 
	Now lets get this straight, thousands of people are gassed in the
building, and then the poisonous residue is ventilated into the
immediate area of the Germans facilities?
	Then they are cremated and reeking smoke comes pouring out of the
chimney at the location?
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 11:01:38 PDT 1996
Article: 50015 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: So much for eyewitnesses.
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 14:42:48 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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                          [repost]
	
	According to Franciszek Piper, curator of the Auschwitz Museum in
Poland, prisoner and SS eyewitness testimony is unreliable.
	In his "Number of Victims", Chapter 4 in "The Anatomy of the
Auschwitz Death Camp", he covers the course of events and
considerations involved in arriving at the revised Auschwitz figures. 
	It seems the revisers held little esteem for any eyewitness
testimony, at least in regard to numbers, be it prisoner or SS
functionary, discounting it all in favor of deportation records from
various countries.
	In respect to the numbers, Piper referring to the deportation
records states, "Before these records were discovered, researchers had
to rely on discrepant and impercise data from testimonies and
depositions from witnesses, former prisoners, and Nazi functionaries
and on court decisions and fragmentary and incomplete records of camp
registries, archives, and other institutions".
	Here Piper even includes "court decisions" as part of that which
is held in low esteem.
	He goes on to say the testimonies held "inevitable distortions
and were "marred by serious errors, discrepancies, and
contradictions".
	Among the few examples Piper identifies as perpetrating the
questionable testimony is the number one star witness for the
Holocaust story, Rudolph Ho'ss.
	Under a bold heading "Investigating and Prosecuting Agencies and
Tribunals" Piper does a quick run down on the erroneous findings of
these bodies and even does similar comment under "Scholarly
Publications".
	Piper comments along the way, "Yet several factors now prompt
historians to attempt to verify widely used figures, including the
scientific demand for objectivity in the study of Nazi crimes."
	
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 13 18:18:34 PDT 1996
Article: 50083 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Any day now"?
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:13:57 GMT
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During some discussion under alt.rev., "Lay Guide to Zyklon B" Jamie
McCarthy claimed he was going to be getting a copy of the Degesch
(Makers of Zyklon B) patent "any day now" and thus implying it would
be presented to the group.
	
Jamie McCarthy, co-webmaster-Nizkor:

"My source for the ten-minutes figure, incidentally (I'm surprised you
didn't ask!), is the Zyklon patent.  I don't have a direct citation
for it yet, nor quotes, but it's been summarized for me by reliable
sources who have found it, in Europe, and whom I hope will send me
photocopies any day now."

 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/


	This was over four months ago.

	For more recapping of how the Holocaust dedicated make wild
claims and don't deliver, see, alt.rev., "How soon is soon ?" were the
former impersonating professor Keren made the same claim a couple of
months ago.
	For a wild boasterous claim by Hilary Ostrov, which was, her
claim she was going to post a "morphing of Tom Moran", see alt.rev.,
"Coming soon to a newsgroup near you".

	Evidentally they think all they have to do is make the claims and
this should convince people of their position. Like little children in
the school yard.

	 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:56 PDT 1996
Article: 50172 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:35:18 GMT
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

Part II. Top half lopped off.

>If you'd like to donate a scanner and software to Dr. Ulrich Roessler in
>Germany, who has the patent and is working on a translation, I imagine
>he might be grateful enough to scan it and upload it to Nizkor.  Since
>we're all volunteers, I'm afraid we aren't the best equipped or staffed.
>But your donation can help correct that.  Thanks again.

	"If you'd like to donate a scanner and software to Dr. Ulrich
Roessler ..."?   Jamie down by the school yard.


Jamie has stated that he has a summary of the patent, which should
cause the wondering mind to think of how he would come to have a
summary and not all. How long does it take to translate something like
a patent - or a manual? 

Here is what Jamie said 4 months ago on 2/25/96:

"My source for the ten-minutes figure, incidentally (I'm surprised you
didn't ask!), is the Zyklon patent.  I don't have a direct citation
for it yet, nor quotes, but it's been summarized for me by reliable
sources who have found it, in Europe, and whom I hope will send me
photocopies any day now."

"Reliable sources" evidentally have supplied Jamie with something.
Translated even. Unless Jamie reads German. But then he ask me to
translate it for Nizkor, so that wouldn't be it. So we have Jamie
saying he has a summary of this patent, but the thing hasn't been
translated yet, and Jamie doesn't know German, leaving the question of
how he comes to be citing it out here?

Anyway it's clear from the record of the thread that Jamie tried to
get away with a fast one with his claim that "Zyklon B" gave up all of
it's HCN in ten minutes, but then eventually had to say, "By the way,
I should correct myself:  I don't know that it was Zyklon _B_
specifically, nor that the ten-minute release time was accurate for
all forms."

What a mess. 

Theres something fishy with this Degesch patent. Here we are talking
about the very core of the Holocaust story, the gas, THE gas, and we
have this network out there that has spent millions promoting the
story, and has resorted to energetic intrigues, stopping at nothing to
get it out there, and here we have this document that should shed some
light on the THE gas, and it's not available, in any language.

Jamie notes below that he has sent off his response to Dr.Roessler,
and perhaps the doctor will come out to straighten it all out.

>
>Posted;  emailed to Mr. Moran and Dr. Roessler.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.
  


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:57 PDT 1996
Article: 50173 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nitzkor im Bau
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 12:37:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <31e79834.637898@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4s3dk9$ko6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net> <12JUL199610004511@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote:
>>>
>>>"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
>>>       -(Anatole France)
>> 
>>	In the fields of philosophy it is referred to "Argumentum ad
>>populum: availing the validity of an argument by citing others believe
>>it too.
>> 
>>History is loaded with examples of things people believed in enmass
>>which are no longer held as true today.
>
>    It is true that almost everyone in the world (who thinks about it)
>    thinks that 10-12 million people killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust
>    including 6 million or so Jews, 3 million or so of them by gassing in
>    the death camps.
>
>    Just because almost everyone thinks this is true does not make it true. 
>    Tommy, if you think it is not true, feel free to try to convince us.
>    But please do it without resorting to
>
>    - without resorting to absurd mathmatical arguments which don't 
>      reflect reality at all
>    - without resorting to lying and/or misrepresenting your sources
>    - by addressing the questions put to you with logic and evidence
>    - without resorting to anti-semitic spewage
>    - by addressing the evidence which exists
>    - by addressing the historiography which has been undertaken by 
>      hundreds, if not thousands, of historians.
>
>    If you can do this, then maybe some of those "almost everyone" will
>    begin to pay attention to you.  So far you have violated every point
>    stated above.

	Interesting barrage of unsubstantiated conclusions. 
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:58 PDT 1996
Article: 50181 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auschwitz: a secret?- 1 (repost)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 12:39:34 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:


>Now, first statement: Hoess, in his 'confession', supposedly given without
>any coercion, testified that when Himmler ordered him to establish a program
>of mass extermination in his camp (a verbal order to keep the secret) he
>received also instructions not to discuss it with Gluecks, general inspector
>of the camps, because absolute secrecy was necessary. Can you believe that?

	Incredible. Its like saying some people at General Motors decided
to make their own car model, using the existing GM facilities, without
anyone knowing about it. 
	
>
>
>
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 07:45:59 PDT 1996
Article: 50197 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: So much for eyewitnesses.
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:40:02 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 10
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


>	Piper comments along the way, "Yet several factors now prompt
>historians to attempt to verify widely used figures, including the
>scientific demand for objectivity in the study of Nazi crimes."
	
	Meaning, contrary to the long held and general practice of
Holocaust facts being based on the emotional method.	



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 09:44:35 PDT 1996
Article: 50203 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:40:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
>	Half of the 6,000,000 Jews said to have been exterminated are
>said to have been from Poland.
>	Germany is said to have had 300,000 or so. All the surrounding
>nations are said have had anywhere from a few thousand to a hundred
>thousand.
>	
	Making the figures of 3,000,000 Polish Jews more rediculous is
the fact the Jews have a history of gravitating to commercially
favorable conditions where capitalizing is more opportune. After all,
this is where their main focus is. Since we could very well show that
such places as Germany, France, Austria, Italy and England would be
and were high areas for commercial opportunity, we might wonder how
three or four times as many Jews ended up in Poland than all the rest
put together.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 09:44:36 PDT 1996
Article: 50215 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:02:27 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 18
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:


>Because we're not an "awesome Holocaust promotional network."  We're a
>bunch of amateurs doing the best we can in our free time.  You've been
>told that _how_ many times now?

"We're a bunch of amateurs ... how many times" do we have to tell you
that?  

Poor Jamie.

>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 12:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 50220 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: class action testicles
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:22:45 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <31e90f86.9629396@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614393902@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s9cl1$i32@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31e8eae2.250018@news.pacificnet.net> 
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>> Just like my pointing out
>> the rediculous Nizkor "Feature" of "Plans for Crema II" that looked
>> like sommething someone sketched up on a paper napkin while waiting
>> for lunch, and now it is gone. 
>
>Oh, it's still there:
>
>http://www.nizkor.eye.net/rue/RUE3-PlanChm1.html

	No longer a "feature"? I can understand that.

>More plans (overhead views instead of side views) are at:
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/documents/pressac
>
>Do you really think your characterization of the Bauleitung technical
>drawings as "sketched up on a paper napkin" is fooling anyone?

	"Fooling anyone"? I'm not the one who is presenting it. It speaks
for itself. 
>
>You can mock the facts, but the facts persist.

	"Facts"? What pertinent "facts" are you talking about?

>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 14 16:32:43 PDT 1996
Article: 50272 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: class action lawsuit
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 16:11:53 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

>	Is there anyone here interested in a class action lawsuit against McVay
>and Nizkor?
>
>	I will be collecting these and forwarding them to an attorney who may be
>or may not be interested in the case depending upon the responses and
>the documentation supporting those responses.
>
>	Please respond email.  

	Gimer, think of this way. Nizkor has 100 to the 10th gigabytes of
trash. By the time anyone gets through the first one byte they will go
else where. The chances are, anyone accessing Nizkor, will not come
across whatever they have on you. So what if they cite you out of
context, or only include certain things in a thread.

	Look at what they have done under "names" > "m" > "moran". They
have put in a clickable called "testicles". I just say 'nuts' they
have a lot of 'balls' putting in something that has no connection to
Moran whatsoever. Hurry up and check it out before they delete it. 

	Personally I like it. Someone goes into Nizkor, clicks up "Moran"
and there they have this "testicles" and if anyone checks it out they
will sit there wondering where it all fits in.

	But, in the event you do sue, and get a sizable settlement, send
me 10% so I can buy a Mercedes Benz and a Rolex.   



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 07:13:32 PDT 1996
Article: 50295 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: law suit
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:39:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <31e97701.1703004@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e90d69.9088329@news.pacificnet.net> <4sbaac$mpe@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>  
>>  	I wonder how many frivolous lawsuits this YFE idiot has filed in
>>  his goofy career?
>
>
>	Hey, gutless one, to paraphrase John Mitchell, we watch what you do 
>not what you say.  In your (note correct punctuation of "your") case that means 
>you are afraid to meet me in an impartial forum where I can and will prove every 
>statement I have made about you.

	You mean the one where you suggest I turn myself in for
"anti-Semitism"? 
>
>	By the way, since you and Giwer feel so comfortable in threatening 
>lawsuits, I have fowarded this message to your provider, putting them on notice 
>that they are publishing legally actionable statements.

	Maybe you should show where I endorse any kind of lawsuits.
	Why don't you post the message you sent to my server?
	When you posted the message, did you leave in the question mark
at the end?
	If I get an inquiry, I will submit your record of scores of
accusations that you have directed my way and refused to support.

	It seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish out whatever his furious little
impulsive mind clicks on with, and then he comes out crying foul. What
an ugly picture.

>	Shalom, L'il Tommy.

	Theres the "Shalom" word used in that certain way.

>	--YFE

	Seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish it out. He uses the word "gutless"
above. It is obvious he went and told my mommy. Poor Mr.Edeiken, he
likes to direct his venomous accusations but he can't take a question.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 07:13:33 PDT 1996
Article: 50321 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: class action testicles
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:50:44 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <31e8eae2.250018@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614393902@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s9cl1$i32@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>
>Indeed - it's even funnier when you read the testicles file -
>in which a certain user exhibits dificiencies other than those
>testosterone-based, and another user (one Yale) demonstrates
>that the other is, er, lying again.

	Wait a minute. You can't be talking about the same "Yale" that
claimed he had 160 relatives lost in the Holocaust and claimed, two
months ago, he was going to present the documentation and still
nothing coming? Or the same "Yale" that claimed there was a girl at a
library that was holding the documentation to show that there were
200,000,000 trees planted in Israel and it turned out no one at the
library ever heard of the person? Your not talking about that "Yale"
are you? "Yale" the documented liar? 

>Alas, Poor Moran, you see, was demeaned by a misfiled article... I 
>had thought it was his, but twas not so. It was not, I confess
>before God and public, Mr. Moran's lie, but Mr. Roberts' lie.
>It gets more and more difficult to tell them apart, you see.

Don't worry about it McVay, it's the same with all the Nizkor files.
All over the place.

>The testicles have been moved to ~/people/r/roberts.jeff/
>where they belonged in the first place. (Testicles clearly do
>not belong in Moran's directory, as Yale has so long noted. My
>deep apologies to Mr. Moran for my having thought, even for a moment,
>that a file by that name could be - even remotely - associated
>with him.)

Now I should have never said anything. The "testicles" file would
still be there for anyone to wonder about. Just like my pointing out
the rediculous Nizkor "Feature" of "Plans for Crema II" that looked
like sommething someone sketched up on a paper napkin while waiting
for lunch, and now it is gone. 

Maybe in the end run it doesn't matter much anyway. Few, if any,
accesses the dossiers. As far as the rest of the site goes, a couple
of excursions by the random reader is enough, and they are gone. The
site is far too miscombobulated.  


>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | http://www.nizkor.eye.net
>-----------------------| Prince Myshkin's Troll Bait Sold Here
>                       |--------------------------------------
>     http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 07:13:34 PDT 1996
Article: 50322 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nitzkor im Bau
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:51:15 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <31e8ed2a.833596@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4s3dk9$ko6@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net> <12JUL199610004511@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31e79834.637898@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614491526@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31e79834.637898@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <31e64330.285719@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>>EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
>>>>>       -(Anatole France)
>>>> 
>>>>	In the fields of philosophy it is referred to "Argumentum ad
>>>>populum: availing the validity of an argument by citing others believe
>>>>it too.
>>>> 
>>>>History is loaded with examples of things people believed in enmass
>>>>which are no longer held as true today.
>>>
>>>    It is true that almost everyone in the world (who thinks about it)
>>>    thinks that 10-12 million people killed by the Nazis in the Holocaust
>>>    including 6 million or so Jews, 3 million or so of them by gassing in
>>>    the death camps.
>>>
>>>    Just because almost everyone thinks this is true does not make it true. 
>>>    Tommy, if you think it is not true, feel free to try to convince us.
>>>    But please do it without resorting to
>>>
>>>    - without resorting to absurd mathmatical arguments which don't 
>>>      reflect reality at all
>>>    - without resorting to lying and/or misrepresenting your sources
>>>    - by addressing the questions put to you with logic and evidence
>>>    - without resorting to anti-semitic spewage
>>>    - by addressing the evidence which exists
>>>    - by addressing the historiography which has been undertaken by 
>>>      hundreds, if not thousands, of historians.
>>>
>>>    If you can do this, then maybe some of those "almost everyone" will
>>>    begin to pay attention to you.  So far you have violated every point
>>>    stated above.
>> 
>>	Interesting barrage of unsubstantiated conclusions. 
>
>    I wrote:
>
>  #Tommy, if you think it is not true, feel free to try to convince us.
>  #But please do it without resorting to
>  #- without resorting to absurd mathmatical arguments which don't 
>  #  reflect reality at all
>
>    I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply
>    point us to one and I will retract.
>
>  #- without resorting to lying and/or misrepresenting your sources
>
>    I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply
>    point us to one and I will retract.
>
>  #- by addressing the questions put to you with logic and evidence
>
>    I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply
>    point us to one and I will retract.
>
>  #- without resorting to anti-semitic spewage
>
>    I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply
>    point us to one and I will retract.
>
>  #- by addressing the evidence which exists
>
>    I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply
>    point us to one and I will retract.
>
>  #- by addressing the historiography which has been undertaken by 
>  #  hundreds, if not thousands, of historians.
>
>    I looked but could find no such post from you, if I am wrong simply
>    point us to one and I will retract.
>
>    But you can't so you won't.  You are a liar and an anti-semite whose
>    agenda has been shown to be HATE HATE HATE.

	Interesting reiteration of the barrage of unsubstantiated
conclusions. 
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 09:39:15 PDT 1996
Article: 50412 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: law suit
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:35:46 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <31ea461b.2266315@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e9796f.2325194@news.pacificnet.net> <4sc5k1$se8@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>  	How desperate. After accusing Moran of all sorts of things and
>>  refusing to present any evidence 
>
>	That is an outright lie.  I have repeatedly offered to prove my 
>contentions before an impartial body.  L'il Tommy is one afraid of impartial bodies.

	When ever Moran goads Mr.Edeiken to present his proof he
constantly resorts to the above instead of just posting the "lie(s)".
Moran ask him "wherzat?" and Mr.Edeiken points to the moon.  


>>  out wailing about taking the back door to silencing his adversaries.
>>  It seems we are now seeing the real mind behind all the tough talk.


>	That's right, L'il Tommy.  The days when you can lie about people and 
>not have it thrown back in your face are over.

	Moran said Mr.Edeiken resorts to "taking the back door to
silencing his adversaries" and Mr.Edeiken says, "That's right, l'il
Tommy".

>>  	He won't be able to deliver on the previous request for him to
>>  show where Moran "defined the rules" just like he has never once taken
>>  Moran up on his challenge to many of Mr.Edieken's accusations.

>	I have continually taken up that "challenge."  It is you who have 
>refused.  Please note Giwer's open invitation to join his in a series of frivolous 
>lawsuits against Nizkor in which you joined.

	And where is that? Mr.Edeiken just keeps saying Moran 
"joined" Giwer in his call for lawsuits, but does he say where? Does
he paste the passage? Does he support his stuff anyway at all? The
record is clear. The answer is, No.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 09:39:16 PDT 1996
Article: 50414 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:13:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <31ea43b3.1650880@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net>
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     7/15/1996
	
	After you have successfully completed remedial reading 101, come
back
to us and ask your question again Li'l Tommy.  Currently it appears
that your profound deficiencies preclude your being able to recognize
(inter alia) "facts."

hro
=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 09:39:17 PDT 1996
Article: 50415 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: class action testicles
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:36:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31ea5750.6672069@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4s7u12$31t@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <31e7c82d.3506466@news.pacificnet.net> <13JUL199614393902@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <4s9cl1$i32@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <31e8eae2.250018@news.pacificnet.net>  <31e90f86.9629396@news.pacificnet.net> 
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>OK, I'm through talking with Tom Moran.  This is ridiculous.  He's made
>it plain that he has nothing worthwhile to say;  until he does, I have
>better things to do than respond to his idiocy.
>
>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.

	With his tail between his legs, Jamie McCarthy, "co-webmaster" of
Nizkor goes scampering away. 

	Lets see. What is it that Jamie is running away from? Oh yea. I
ask him how is it Nizkor carries a, supposedly, vital document as
evidence for the Holocaust story and it is written in German, why
hasn't Nizkor had it translated and how is it Jamie knows it is "some
very interesting source documents" if it hasn't been translated and he
can't read German. 

	So much for Jamie. I realized back in November, 1995, when I
first received e-mail from Jamie, that he had the mind of a child.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 11:28:33 PDT 1996
Article: 50424 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Cultured McVay
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:53:07 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <31ea4d3c.4091967@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net
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	Under Webcrawler > Revisionism > "Green Eggs Report" we are given
a brief bio on McVay, and his photo, for any one who wants to see the
face of the collaborator himself.
	The report states at one place that McVay was retired and at
another that he was unemployed when he began whatever he's up to now.
	Giving us the warm human side of McVay we can click up "trivia"
where we are given the following life interests of the person. 


beer:	      Okanagan Springs Old English Porter
champagne:    Dom Perignon, of course.
cognac:       Remy Martin Grand Champagne
comedian:     John Cleese
comedy group: Monty Python's Flying Circus (who else?)
dog:          "Tilly" (Bassett Hound)
hideaway:     Astoria, Oregon
lady:         (she knows who she is)
mead:         Chateau Bumrot '96 (Happy, Harry?)
pianist:      Eva (Hi, sweetheart; welcome home!)
politician:   Pierre Trudeau
resolution:   Never to let Lucy hold that football again.
sports cars:  MGTD & BGT, Austin-Healy Sprite, Lotus 7 Mk IV
stout:        Guiness, of course!
wine (red):   Geisweiler Beaune	 
wine (white): yetch 

        I personally don't know what McVay was before he became
"retired" or "unemployed" and took up collaboration, but it seems he
would like to have his wine cellars and fancy cars and perhaps he
found a way to have it.
	Actually it might be difficult to visualize a man of culture from
the list, more of a picture of a mod squad yuppy. Considering this bio
of interests, we wonder what kind of history he had fighting "hatred"
and injustice before he somehow got all hooked up with what he's doing
now.
	Well, anyway, his bio does him injustice. It doesn't mention any
book(s) he might like when in fact he is very well read in the one and
only, holiest of holy, libra maximus, IT, "The Holocaust Almanac".




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 13:33:19 PDT 1996
Article: 50441 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!news-e2a.gnn.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:51:13 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <31e915cc.11235458@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	Nizkor list a line of pages from this Peters book, totaling maybe
15 pages. One should think it would be in the interest of Nizor's
position to post, in translated copy, any of it that is directly
supportive to their position. Whatever it is. As it stands now, only
those who can read German and root out the limited copy would be able
to know what it is all about.




From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 19:32:15 PDT 1996
Article: 50506 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: law suit
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:53:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 148
Message-ID: <31ea3e7b.314775@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e97701.1703004@news.pacificnet.net> <4sc553$se8@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

	This is a good one.

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>  >	Hey, gutless one, to paraphrase John Mitchell, we watch what you do 
>>  >not what you say.  In your (note correct punctuation of "your") case that 
>means 
>>  >you are afraid to meet me in an impartial forum where I can and will prove 
>every 
>>  >statement I have made about you.
>>  
>>  	You mean the one where you suggest I turn myself in for
>>  "anti-Semitism"? 
>
>	No you lying asshole.  I never made any such suggestion.  To recap, 
>since you do not have the intellectual honesty to repeat the acceptance of your 
>challenge or the mental capactiy to understand it:
>
>	I will prove that you are a liar and an anti-Semite, using the standard 
>dictionary definition of that term, before any organization dealing in alternate 
>dispute resolution.  I prefer the American Arbitration Association -- the oldest 
>national body doing such private arbitrations -- but will listen to alternate proposals. 
> The only conditions placed on this offer are:
>
>	1.   Federal Rules of Evidence to be used.
>
>	2.   Federal Rules of Civil Procedure concerning discovery and Federal 
>Rule of Procedure 52 to be used.
>
>	3.   Loser will pay all expenses of litigation and all fees for the 
>transcribing or vidoetaping of depositions.
>
>	Now, gutless one, is there anything in this proposal -- which has been 
>made in this form several times -- that calls for you to "turn yourself in."  Indeed 
>since the burden is on me to prove my contentions (a piece of cake) the exact 
>opposite is true.  Since this is a an alternate dispute resolution process, it requires 
>your agreement.  Rather than being an unusual form of dispute resloution this is 
>rather a standard procedure.  Every brokerage agreement I have ever seen calls 
>for arbitration and it is the common device, as opposed to litigation, for settling 
>disputes between insurance companies.

	Don't you see Mr.Edeiken, your the one who is making the charge.
So either you follow through with it by initiating your own
"arbitration" in front of a court, or your asking me to do it. You
make the charge, I just say 'ho hum'. Put your action where your mouth
is Oh Great Accuser of many things. 

	And then again, you could present your case right out here. Seems
every time you make a accusation I just say 'Wherzat?" and you just
return to the above theme. What can I say? I just keep saying
"Wherzat?" and you just keep continuing with your snarling evasions.


>	I note that you continue to lie about the acceptance of your challenge.


>>  	Maybe you should show where I endorse any kind of lawsuits.


>	Maybe you should read what you write.

	Well here we go again, Mr.Edeiken. I say, wherzat, and you refuse
to show it. You make a claim and then can't or won't show it. Its on
the record. Now wherzat, Mr.Edeiken? Where exactly do you say I posted
any endorsement of any lawsuits?

>>  	Why don't you post the message you sent to my server?
	No comment from Mr.Edeiken on this reasonable request.
Interesting.

>>  	When you posted the message, did you leave in the question mark
>>  at the end?
>>  	If I get an inquiry, I will submit your record of scores of
>>  accusations that you have directed my way and refused to support.

>	Ben there, Jew hater.  Done that.  I have never refused to support a 
>single one.  I now renew my offer to prove them before an impartial body.  It is you 
>who are ducking.

	Nope, the record shows you to have made scores of accusations and
when pressed "Wherzat?" you just repeat them or file new ones. Lets
try this, Mr.Edeiken. You have in the past, scores of times, accused
Moran of saying the "KKK" and/or "KKKK" is a Jewish organization. You
have perhaps 5 or 6 recent posts with the theme. Sometimes when I'm in
the mood, I say "Wherzat?" and you have never come back to state
exactly where you can show where I did say the statement. Never. Nor
have you bothered to, or couldn't perform a simple procedures of 'cut
and paste' of the evidence. Even right now you can't show that you
ever responded directly. All the record shows is your constant
repeating the theme. Nothing more.  

	I see you have also returned to the "arbitration clause again.
There your charges, you initiate the proceeding. Or you could go at it
right out here. What's the matter? You can't or you won't? 

  
>>  	It seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish out whatever his furious little
>>  impulsive mind clicks on with, and then he comes out crying foul. What
>>  an ugly picture.

>	The ugl;y picture is a lying creep like you.  
	Snarl, growl, roar, foam.

>>  >	Shalom, L'il Tommy.
>>  
>>  	Theres the "Shalom" word used in that certain way.
>
>>  	Seems Mr.Edeiken likes to dish it out. He uses the word "gutless"
>>  above.

>	That is an pretty good description of your behavior.

>> It is obvious he went and told my mommy. Poor Mr.Edeiken, he
>>  likes to direct his venomous accusations but he can't take a question.

>	No what I did was put your ISP on notice that it is publishing actionable 
>material.
So what is he saying here? Yes he told my mommy, or no he didn't tell
my mommy?

> Morevoeer it is Giwer and you who have threatened lawsuits.  
Oh, this again. Could you show exactly where I, Moran, "threatened
lawsuits"? Just direct the reader to the post or just paste the
statement here with from whence it came. Its easy. Seems easier than
your continuous evasions. Just think, if you just posted it once, then
you wouldn't have to keep typing the same old stuff over and over
again.. Now wherzat, Mr.Edeiken? Where exactly did I, Moran threaten
and/or endorse any lawsuits.
	
>Sorry that you can't take a dose of your own medicine.
Your the one foaming at the fingertips Mr.Edeiken, not me. Its not me
calling your mommy. Its you calling my mommy. I would never call your
mommy. You see Mr.edeiken, I view it as being weak, insufficient,
incapable, corrupt, a menace to the First Amendment. I can handle it
right here, you and I. I don't go around looking for help. Your the
one who acts like the tough guy, with your talk of others being
cowards and all, but now, we see the wimpy truth.

>	Shalom, L'il Tommy
	There's that special application of the "Shalom" word again. 
"Shalom" at times can mean 'f--- you'. Isn't that right Mr.Edeiken?
You don't really wish Moran 'Peace' do you? 





From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 19:32:16 PDT 1996
Article: 50516 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocuster's Last Stand
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:52:22 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <31ea4ce2.4002165@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

                       [repost]
	
	There are many aspects to the Holocaust story. Numbers, methods,
and locations are the basic ingredients. How many people were
exterminated, how and where.
	This could be listed under two general headings, camps and field.
	The camps would be those places set up or eventually modified
especially for the purpose of mass extermination.
	The field would head all the things said to have happened outside
of the camps as to mass extermination.
	Many of the camps once said to have been extermination centers
have already been deleted from the story, as is the same for many
methods once said to have been used.  
	As for the killings in the field, next to nothing has been found
that would even remotely substantiate the huge numbers said to have
been killed, sometimes as many 40,000 all in one night at a single
location.
	After all this and aside from all that is left, the conflict
between truth and fiction is all focused on Auschwitz. 
	Auschwitz is the soup can at the bottom of the pyramide. The
cornerstone. The focus of the whole story. Center stage. The last
tension in the wind up toy. Once the world sanity comes to recognize
the myths of Auschwitz everything else tumbles, melts and crys.
	All the talk about populations, the 3,000,000 names collected,
all the big tales, all the little tales, all the witnesses, all the
interpretations, all the confirming research, all the books, all the
museums, all the activity of the last fifty years, all will follow.
	Auschwitz, the vital frontier. When it all falls, it will be
Humpty Dumpty time. All the books and all the museums or anything else
will not be able to sustain belief or acceptance in whatever remains.
 
	Only a major revision to the First Amendment, enforced by 
totalitarian authority, can keep the Holocaust story true.
	




 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:20 PDT 1996
Article: 50534 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McVay, down by the school yard
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:54:13 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net
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                        [repost]
	
	Moran had posted recently "What is "trolling"? 	
			
>	I see a lot of dubbing of "troller" or "trolling" out here. What
>does that mean? 
>	Hold it! Don't just post something and say 'Heres an example'.
>You have to post the example and then show that it is trolling.

	Ken McVay responded:


"I am not surprised that you do not understand, given your
inability to use the English language properly, brush your
teeth, enjoy normal sex, or understand something if you _do_
manage to read it. You are simply too stupid to deal with it.

There. See if you have brains enough to figure it out, Morin.
(Somehow, I doubt it.)"


	


	


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:21 PDT 1996
Article: 50536 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.reed.edu!camelot.ccs.neu.edu!nntp.neu.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!bone.think.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 15:01:11 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

			
	For anyone who wants to check out what the Holocaust story has as
evidence for this camp being an extermination facility check out
Nizkor. (Nizkor > ftp > treblinka)
	Notice how they deny the evidence is not founded on "eyewitness"
testimony and then notice how most of their evidence is testimony and
quotes from books.
	Notice "treblinka 02." where it is quoted from the "Old Frogs
Almanac" - "When the Russians took over the Treblinka conmplex and the
nearly dead survivors ... there was no lack of physical evidence".
Notice under other clickables where it is said "The suffocated bodies
in recently arrived cattle cars ..." were there also.
	Yet the Holocaust story also has it that the camp was constructed
one year (1941-2), 2,000,000 people were exterminated the next years
(1942-3) and the next year it was plowed over and turned into a tree
farm (1943-4), and yet when the Russians arrived a year after all
this, it was still there, in full bloom.  
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:22 PDT 1996
Article: 50539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 13:11:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31ea4276.1333359@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net> <31e915cc.11235458@news.pacificnet.net> <4sd92r$89n@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>
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@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:

>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>	Nizkor list a line of pages from this Peters book, totaling maybe
>>15 pages. One should think it would be in the interest of Nizor's
>>position to post, in translated copy, any of it that is directly
>>supportive to their position. Whatever it is. As it stands now, only
>>those who can read German and root out the limited copy would be able
>>to know what it is all about.
>
>Mr. Moran,
>
>   if you send the text in question to my email address, I am quite willing to post
>a short overview over its contents in this newsgroup.

	You say a "short overview"? What's the problem with the whole
li'l 15 pages or so. Or how about just the part that would support the
Holocaust story.

	You want me to send it you? Why don't you just take it off the
site?  
>
>Nele



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 21:10:22 PDT 1996
Article: 50540 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 14:07:49 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 40
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-11.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


                       [modified repost]
							
	Moran has posted this space for anyone who says they have any
forensic study reports that supports the Holocaust.

This article was posted about 2 months ago. At that time it got two
responses.

The first was:

"http://www.almanac.bc.ca/"


=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

The second was:

Look, this is really boring. Leuchter, Rudoplh, and the team
of Polish chemists all found cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz
and Birkenau gas chambers. You know this.
 
Now, provide us with forensic evidence that proves that    
Paris was occupied by the Nazis. And that the crusades
took place. And that WW1 took place. Let's see you prove
that something ever happened. Ok? After all, you have admitted
that there are historical events which you accept as having
taken place, although there is no physical evidence to
them whatsoever.
-Danny Keren.
-- 
Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood.
-Lu Xun.


Well, so much for forensic studies in support of the Holocaust story.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 15 22:32:57 PDT 1996
Article: 50558 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Suing is for sissies
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 02:30:36 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 37
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.40
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

		
	Suing is for sissies. Especially for what is posted on
alt.revisionism where the opportunity is there for the accusations and
denials.
	As far as threatening to sue servers, it is a danger to the First
Amendment. Why not just sue the poster? How can a server know what is
said.
	As it stands now there are calls for censorship with open
discussion on the Holocaust seeming to be the main target outside of
child pornography. It would appear that those calling for the
censorship would have it that all one has to do is tell a server and
the server has the right to cancel the targeted offender on the word
of the plaintiff without any recourse to have a hearing. This is no
different than someone going into a store and wanting to buy something
and someone gripes about it and the store refuses to sell the desired
item.
	I believe there are statutes, state and federal, that prohibit
anyone from refusing service to another on the grounds of race or
religous and political thinking. 
	If there are any grounds for suing any server as to Holocaust
revisionism, it would be for them refusing service to anyone who
wanted to or did post anything in that regard. 
	As far as personal attacks go, I for one can take it. If
Mr.Edeiken wants to direct his "No you lying little scumbag",
"cowardly little bigot", "a liar and an anti-Semite", "lying sack of
shit", "a lying creep", "you lying asshole" at myself, I just say
"wherzat?". 
	If Mr.Edeiken wants to persist in saying I typed the words "KKK"
or "KKKK" in conjunction with Jewish but never posts the evidence, I
just say "wherzat?". If Mr.Edeiken insist I endorse law suits but
refuses to show where, I just say "wherzat?".
	Can I help it if nature has cheated Mr.Edeiken, giving him too
much of things negative and not enough of the positive? He should be
suing whats-its-name - god.  


                   


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 02:19:04 PDT 1996
Article: 50600 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 1996 23:41:34 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
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rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>Mr. Giwer will intervene with no answer and will predictably resort to 
>ad hominem attacks.

	Okay Giwer, stay away from this post. You draw flys. Next thing
you know there are a whole bunch of rodeo clown flys buzzing around
trying to divert attention away from the initial topic.

>ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/post-leuchter.report  
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 21:52:27 PDT 1996
Article: 77763 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31eb9acd.4565915@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31eb9acd.4565915@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:42:46 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:15 PDT 1996
Article: 50868 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:22:43 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <31eb8984.140608@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	Seems every click in Nizkor brings you to a loony toon.


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:16 PDT 1996
Article: 50871 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:55:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 15
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References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    Then Mr. Edeiken sent you e-mail retracting his offer.
>
>    Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you.  Doesn't
>    that make you a liar?  You might have a legitimate complaint about him
>    retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information
>    to lay out such a complaint.  If you lie by omission, you are no better
>    than you claim he is.

	How is it you would know Mr.Edeiken sent me anything? 
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:16 PDT 1996
Article: 50872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:56:29 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
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NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-20.pacificnet.net
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>    Then Mr. Edeiken sent you e-mail retracting his offer.
>>
>>    Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you.  Doesn't
>>    that make you a liar?  You might have a legitimate complaint about him
>>    retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information
>>    to lay out such a complaint.  If you lie by omission, you are no better
>>    than you claim he is.
>
>	How is it you would know Mr.Edeiken sent me anything? 

	We can carry on with the next logical questions after you get
done baby talking this one.

 
>>===========================================================================
>>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:17 PDT 1996
Article: 50873 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Just ask for Rachelle"
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:05:09 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 33
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>	Another way of putting it.
>
>
>                          Mr. Edeiken: 
>
> 	"No you lying little scumbag.  There is no "endorsement" for any
>of your lies. 
>
> Just ask for Rachelle."
>                    --------------------
>
>     Her name is Rachelle (and she has read your posts).  
>                    --------------------
>
>	"That is why Rachelle, a very nice lady by the way, is waiting
>for you.  
>                    --------------------                    
>       "Her name -- given twice -- is Rachelle."
>                    ____________________
>    
>
>	Wrong again, L'il Tommy.  She's there (I talked to her today).
>She's still waiting to hear from you.  You are right, however, her
>name is not "Rachelle." 

	Of course as the initial post shows, I didn't say anything about
the "name" being wrong, I said she didn't exist, that she was (and
evidentally still is), "a figment of Mr.Edeiken's fabrication".



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:18 PDT 1996
Article: 50874 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 13:24:51 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:


>    Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you.  Doesn't
>    that make you a liar?  You might have a legitimate complaint about him
>    retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information
>    to lay out such a complaint.  If you lie by omission, you are no better
>    than you claim he is.
>
	I wonder if Mr.Mittleman took it on his own to post this
"retracting" alibi or if Mr.Edeiken e-amiled him to post it?

	Mr.Edeiken didn't give it himself, he just asserted he sent
e-mail to me, not mentioning any "retracting".

	Don't get too confortable Mr.(s) Edeiken and Mittleman, this is
not one of the ensuing "logical questions" I mentioned would be
forthcoming.


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 16 23:54:18 PDT 1996
Article: 50882 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:32:58 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.199.121.54

tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>Mr.Edeiken:
>	Sure can L'il Tommy.  Just ask and the full list will be e-mailed
>to you.  By the way, you are lying again.  Didn't your mother teach
>you any better?

	Seeing how this whole thing was taking place on the open format
of alt.revisionism, one should wonder why Mr.Edeiken would opt to
e-mail the alleged list to an individual instead of posting it out
here. 

Don't get too comfortable Mr.Edeiken, this is not one of the "logical
questions" to come.


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 00:41:23 PDT 1996
Article: 50895 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question about the tone of language in this group... (was Re: Baron exp...
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 15:41:26 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
 
>>	Where is a written a Jew can not be an atheist?  

	In the dictionary. Randonm House Dictionary: "Jew, 1. A person
whose religion is Judaism."

>    I hadn't realized you were also Jewish.  Mazal tov, Mr. Giwer.  And
>    shalom too.

	Giwer, I see he has signed with the secret code word for f---
you.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 01:02:29 PDT 1996
Article: 77911 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31eb8db5.1213567@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31eb8db5.1213567@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 12:53:58 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 01:02:30 PDT 1996
Article: 77912 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31eb9025.1837076@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31eb9025.1837076@news.pacificnet.net>
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From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 07:36:34 PDT 1996
Article: 50916 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!scramble.lm.com!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:11:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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	Mr.(s) Edeiken and Mittleman along with Mr.Stein are big on
alleging Moran has committed "lies", "anti-Semitisms", "evasions" and
other naughty things. Moran simply asks, "Wherzat?". The trio then
just reiterates the same thing.

	Now Moran is another story. He puts the record out here about
such things as lies, corruption, racism, blustering, idiotic
statements, bantering and so on.

"How soon is soon"

"'Just ask for Rachelle'"

"'Coming to a newsgroup near you'"

"Nizkor's code of responding"

"The Best of Nizkor"

"'I will ... this weekend'"

"McVay, down by the school yard"

"The cultured McVay"

"Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt"

"Treblinka, there, gone, there again"

"Nizkor/JDL ... against evil Christians"

"Boys in the Sand"

"Boys in the Sand II"

"Morans Dreams Vanish"

....	and the host of others. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 07:36:35 PDT 1996
Article: 50951 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Web Browser Incompetence
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 22:49:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:


>    Well, since I saw this first, I'll step in even though I'm not an
>official officer.  I tried what Tom Moran suggested and I saw the
>following:

	I wonder how this person knew he was the "first" person to see
this post? What he did was to play the "Rodeo Clown" to jump in and
answer for Jamie. 

>peters-03.jpg (ref)
>
>and a bunch of lines just like it.
>
>    What Tom Moran didn't think to do was to click on the part that said
>"peters-03.jpg."  That will show a page from the article.  Instead, Tom
>Moran clicked on the part that said "ref" which gives what he saw.
>
>    It sounds like he accidentally managed to click on the right part once
>or twice, but wasn't smart enough to figure out what he was doing wrong
>the other times.

	Actually I became aware of that, but nevertheless, some "jpg"s
are nothing.

>    Of course the article is in German, so it won't do Tom Moran much
>good.  In another article instead of being happy that the information is
>there for anyone - revisionist or otherwise - to use, all he did was whine
>about how it was in German.

	"Of course" the article is in German? He must think the whole
thing is there for me when he says it "won't do Tom Moran any good".
But then it won't do any one else "any good" either, unless they read
German. Even then we don't if it will do any good for them either.


>    Even people who speak foreign languages very well have trouble doing
>translations of specialized technical articles such as the Peters article
>and the Zyklon and Topf patents.  Poor disappointed little Tommy will just
>have to wait.  Of course he will never bother to learn German so that he
>can educate himself.  He expects Nizkor to spoonfeed him right now, or
>else he'll snivel and complain and stamp his foot because he isn't getting
>what he wants, right now!

	When Mr.Stein tries to insult me with,  "Of course he will never
bother to learn German so that he can educate himself", he implies the
same for anyone reading his thing who doesn't read German. Does this
mean that Mr.Stein reads German? When Mr.Stein says, "He expects
Nizkor to spoon feed him right now, or else he'll snivel and complain
and stamp his foot because he isn't getting what he wants, right now!"
does he direct this to me personally or is it directed to the general
reader?
	Mr.Stein tries to argue that translating a few pages of a
technical paper is very difficult. Technical subjects are far more
easier to translate than other topics where sayings and idioms are
used extensively.   
>
>>My opinion is that Nizkor is engaged in a corrupt practice, insulting
>>to anyone who would access the site, intentionally.
>
>    My opinion is that Tom Moran is a loud fool who cannot figure out how
>to "incite his rigii" properly and then blames Nizkor for his own
>foolish mistakes.
>
	We will just have to wait and see what Jamie has to say. I wonder
if Mr.Stien has any idea of how Jamie would come to say Nizkor has
some "very interesting source documents", referring to the topic here,
and he doesn't know German and the document hasn't been translated
yet? What about it Mr.Stein, you omitted addressing this question
which was posed in the article to which have selectively chosen only
parts to respond to.

	I wonder when Mr.Stein berates Moran for not knowing German if
this would apply to Jamie also? 
	
>>For anyone wanting to experience the idiotic contempt, check it out.
>
>    No, anyone wanting to experience idiotic contempt should check out
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom - now THERE is
>some idiotic contempt!

	NO, NO. Not that again. Too bad these people who keep referring
others to Nizkor dossiers don't just post the stuff instead of asking
them to wade through the Nizkor mess.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 07:36:36 PDT 1996
Article: 50954 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jamie, down by the school yard
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:57:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 15
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	==============================================================

In other words, Tom Moran couldn't even figure out how his software
worked.  (snicker)

Bwahahaha!

Bwahaha!


Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
 Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 10:59:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51006 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:07:08 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <31ecfd7a.4680104@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <16JUL199623041766@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>	I wonder if Mr.Mittleman took it on his own to post this
>>"retracting" alibi or if Mr.Edeiken e-amiled him to post it?

>    Obviously not!

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	So Mr.Mittleman, you are saying "obviously not" that Mr.Edeiken
did not send you anything before you posted your "retraction"
statement on his behalf. Interesting. Then all one can assume from
your own admission is you made it up.
	Since the record shows that Mr.Edeiken has tacitly acknowledged
the "retraction" statement given by yourself, it takes us to a next
step of asking for clarification on what you mean by "retraction".

	Allow me to enter into discussion the 'expert opinion' on the
meaning of words, the Random House Dictionary.

	"retraction: 1. the act of retracting, 2. the state of being
retracted."

	"retract: 1. to withdraw (a statement, opinion etc.) as
inaccurate or unjustified, 2. to withdraw or revoke ( a decree,
promise etc.), ...

      3. to draw or shrink back".

	Mr.Mittleman and Mr.Edeiken - shrinking back.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 10:59:52 PDT 1996
Article: 51023 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-3.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:49:52 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 10
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	"Yeah, but you have to *pay* for the extra butter.  Besides, your
percentage of the box office is only *after* we've taken our cut off
the top."
=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 10:59:53 PDT 1996
Article: 51026 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:20:27 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 10
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:


>	When have you ever produced evidence?

>	--YFE

 	"It's on dejanews.  I just checked.  Go use it."

	--YFE


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 14:38:59 PDT 1996
Article: 51047 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 16:43:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <31ebc5d0.15576839@news.pacificnet.net>
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) wrote:
>
>> [...]same brazen example all over again. Yawn. Perhaps
>> your response could be saved in Moran's FTP directory so that we can save 
>> a trip to DejaNews next time?
>
>Archived as people/m/moran.tom/behold-the-liar .

>
>Posted;  emailed "FYI" to Mr. Graves, Mark Van Alstine, and Ken McVay.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.

For a full compliment of Jamie > Deja News > "author" > "Jamie
McCarthy".


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 19:34:45 PDT 1996
Article: 51098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:28:51 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31e91163.10107078@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


As to Jamie's:
>"Mr. Moran, we don't have the patent posted yet, but we do have scans
>of some very interesting source documents which Gerhard Rudolf used:
>original works on Zyklon itself.  Namely, _Blausaeure zur
>Schaedlingsbekaempfung_, written by Gerhard Peters in 1933.  Since you
>have so much free time, perhaps you'd like to type in a transcription
>of these JPEGs, and then translate it for us?  Thanks, I appreciate
>it."

How would Jamie know these "interesting source documents" are
interesting if their written in German and presented that way in
Nizkor?

Jamie, can you explain that, yourself? 


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 23:20:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51106 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:22:17 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31ec241f.1982243@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <4sh1bv$5mr@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
  
>>  	Mr.Edeiken didn't give it himself, he just asserted he sent
>>  e-mail to me, not mentioning any "retracting".

>	You are a liar.  I mentioned it in a ,previous post.

	Mr.Edeiken, when did you "mention" the e-mail in a previous
article? What date was it, under what title and what is the article
I.D. number?	



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 23:20:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51115 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 1996 15:06:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-8.pacificnet.net
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	For anyone who would like to get a clear idea of Nizkor
practices, check their files under ftp>
"camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images".

Recently under alt.rev. "Any day now" Jamie McCarthy directed Moran,
and thus any reader to see "some very interesting source documents". 

"Mr. Moran, we don't have the patent posted yet, but we do have scans
of some very interesting source documents which Gerhard Rudolf used:
original works on Zyklon itself.  Namely, _Blausaeure zur
Schaedlingsbekaempfung_, written by Gerhard Peters in 1933.  Since you
have so much free time, perhaps you'd like to type in a transcription
of these JPEGs, and then translate it for us?  Thanks, I appreciate
it."

As it turned out the long list of URLs Jamie supplied were wrong,
Jamie having to come back and set it straight.

"Sorry, we created some new directories and moved things around --
you'll notice that the dkeren-incoming directory is nearly empty, all
its files have been sent to more appropriate homes.  Try:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images"

For anyone who would like to experience this direction, be prepared
for the mother of all wacky browser rides. 

What Jamie has given here will take you to a list, "peters-03.jpg",
".04, 58, 59,60,61,62,63" continuing "peters-rosch-132" through "136".

Clicking up each one will bring up the exact same copy:

	"Reference:

     Peters, Gerhard, and W. Rasch. Die Einsatzfaehigkeit der
Blausaeure-Durchgasung bei tiefen Temperaturen, Zeitschrift fuer
hygienische Zoologie und Schaedlingsbekaempfung. ["The Serviceability
of Prussic Acid Gassing at Low Temperatures, Journal of Hygienic
Zoology and Pest Control."] 1941. p. 135."

Even though the listing also includes a kilobyte number after each
item, the above is all you will get. Most rediculous. 

You can click up one of the options below to "switch to" - "tables" or
something like that, which will bring you to a list almost the same as
the first. Clicking through this list is mostly the same experience
you have with the other. Even though there are kilobytes ranging into
the hundreds after each one, you will get nary nothing. One or two of
them have a scanned page from the 1933 book by Peters, which is
written in German.

Maybe Jamie or any other Nizkor official officer will come out and
explain what any browsers should get from this.

My opinion is that Nizkor is engaged in a corrupt practice, insulting
to anyone who would access the site, intentionally.

For anyone wanting to experience the idiotic contempt, check it out.


Go to Nizkor>ftp>camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images, take the ride,
see for yourself.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 23:20:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51119 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:22:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <31ec242e.1997292@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ebb51f.11303015@news.pacificnet.net> <4sh1hu$5mr@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>  	Seeing how this whole thing was taking place on the open format
>>  of alt.revisionism, one should wonder why Mr.Edeiken would opt to
>>  e-mail the alleged list to an individual instead of posting it out
>>  here. 
  
>>  Don't get too comfortable Mr.Edeiken, this is not one of the "logical
>>  questions" to come.

>	Gee, L'il Tommy if that's the best you can do, retire.   Or read my original 
>post.

	Mr.Edeiken, what "original" post are you talking about? On what
date did you post it, under what title and what is the article I.D.
number?



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 17 23:20:52 PDT 1996
Article: 51141 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!mhv.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 1996 23:32:23 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31ec2611.2480413@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net>  <4sh9eh$1dli@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
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EEGG87A@prodigy.com (A Huber) wrote:
>Interesting cop-out, little jamie.
>You haven't time to produce what you promised, but you have the time to 
>flame the mailboxes of revisiionists to the tune of hundreds per day per 
>person.
>
>If a revisionist copped-out on a source you'd call him a liar.

	Jamie said he was through talking to Moran 7/14, and yet Moran
got 6 e-mails from Jamie on the morning of 7/16. 

 
>  ** AArdvark **
>Feeding on the bottom
> where the j*ws are
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 07:21:14 PDT 1996
Article: 51168 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:09:17 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <31ecf40a.2264338@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ec23de.1917102@news.pacificnet.net> <4shio8$9s9@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

>>  	When did you post the "information", under what title, and what
>>  is the article I.D. number?

>	It's on dejanews.  I just checked.  Go use it.

	Really. I see you have opted not to give any information other
than it is on Deja News. You also seem to not want to, or can't supply
any title name and/or article I.D. number. In fact you didn't even
mention what group it would be in. A good first guess would be, you
assume any one your directing your directions to would assume it would
be under alt.revisionism. But who knows? It could be under
alt.outerspace and/or alt.nitwit and/or alt.liar as far as anyone
would know.
	My real guess is it's under, alt.mredeiken.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 09:35:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51216 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:48:34 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <31ecfbc3.4241308@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eb9155.2141745@news.pacificnet.net> <4sh1m2$5mr@news.enter.net> <16JUL199623093266@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>    And Mr. Edeiken has, over the past several months, established a good
>    deal of credibility in my eyes.  I have no reason to believe he would
>    be mistaken on this point.
>
>    However, I had not considered until this evening the possibility that
>    Tommy might be too dumb to properly use his rigii to read his mail.  It
>    may of been send, but never received.  That is a distinct possibility
>    we have to consider.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	Mr.Mittleman, Mr.Edeiken has stated he has posted the e-mail or
referrence to it, "several" times out "here", which I assume he is
saying 'alt.revisionism', and yet refuses to give any dates, titles
under which they were posted and any article I.D. numbers. Since you
endorse and even expand on Mr.Edeiken's assertion he sent this e-mail
perhaps you could supply the vital information to show that you and
Mr.Edeiken are telling truths and thus are not corrupt.



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 09:35:52 PDT 1996
Article: 51217 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kids Stay Cozy in Gas Chambers
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:44:20 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <31ed09e3.7856691@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e6641f.8716817@news.pacificnet.net> <4sidkb$1b6q@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com>
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EEGG87A@prodigy.com (A Huber) wrote:

>Since the Holocaust story has the sondercommandos themselves
>>using the gas chambers as living quarters, when they weren't in use of
>>course, we might suppose they and the kids all sat around and had
>>chats. Or maybe something like 'Hey you kids, shut up. We're trying to
>>sleep'.
>>	Yup. Something wacky on every page of a Holocaust book.  
>
>Mr. Moran, the hoax and fraud has been exposed. You will soon see the 
>death-throws of the likes of nitzkor. Witness the following FACTS:
>
>
>Subject: Cracks in the Foundation?
>
>From
>
>http://ngwwmall.com/frontier/bnp/stop.htm
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>Anti-fascist organisation denies Holocaust
>
>July 13 1996
>
>The well-known anti-fascist Searchlight organisation, publishers of
>Searchlight magazine, has issued a new publication, When Hate Comes To 
>Town, which denies some aspects of the Holocaust.

	This publication is also upset with the a new proposed Bible that
is being published where any negative referrence to Jews is deleted.S


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 09:35:53 PDT 1996
Article: 51218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.cloud9.net!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:45:59 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <31ed0a97.8037175@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net> <16JUL199623472489@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-0.pacificnet.net
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>	So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in response to
>>this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.
>
>    A nod's as good as a wink to a blind man, eh zeyde?
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	Thank you for the confirmation of my post.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 13:56:36 PDT 1996
Article: 51244 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!lamarck.sura.net!ra.nrl.navy.mil!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 16:11:14 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <31ed0f65.9267330@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ebb96b.12403383@news.pacificnet.net> <16JUL199623271360@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ebb96b.12403383@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>	
>>	Mr.(s) Edeiken and Mittleman along with Mr.Stein are big on
>>alleging Moran has committed "lies", "anti-Semitisms", "evasions" and
>>other naughty things. Moran simply asks, "Wherzat?". The trio then
>>just reiterates the same thing.
>
>    Why just last week you demanded that I defend my assertion that your
>    posts were filled with, as you put it, "HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE."  So
>    I began to repost your hate-filled essays with analysis.

	Really? Wherzat? Did you post them directly to Deja News, somehow
bypassing alt.revisionism, as Mr.Edeiken implies he did?

>  I believe reposted four of them.

	"Four of them" you "believe".

>  At that point you got so angry at my tactics you asserted you weren't
> going to talk to me anymore.

	"Angry" you believe? Wherzat?	

>    Now, you are asking "Wherzat?" again?  I think you have amnesia, zeyde.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"

>    I believe I reposted four of them.  At that point you got so angry at my tactics
>    you asserted you weren't going to talk to me anymore.

	

>    Now, you are asking "Wherzat?" again?  I think you have amnesia, zeyde.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 13:56:36 PDT 1996
Article: 51248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:32:19 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 69
Message-ID: <31ee2ea5.86012@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ecf402.2256648@news.pacificnet.net> <4sji2d$o34@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-1.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>  >	Why didn't you read it?
>>  
>>  	Assuming you mean, "Why didn't you read it?", as opposed to 
>>  'Why, didn't you read it?', the answer to your question is, going by
>>  my general experiences in the universe, it would have been impossible.

Mr.E
>>	Either formulation will do.  Apparently your answer is that you are an 
>illiterate.

>>  >	It's been posted here several times, L'il Tommy.  If you trashed it without 
>>  >reading it, that's your problem.

Moran  
>>  	Now this is a toughy to figure out. First I'll take note you are
>>  now saying it was posted, here, - "several times". "Several times"?
>>  Alright.

Mr.E
>	Several times means more than once.

Moran
>>  	Now you also say in addition to this several times, that if I
>>  trashed it that would be my problem. You wouldn't know why I would
>>  have missed it being posted out "here", seeing how you posted it
>>  "several times", do you?  

Mr.E
>	No I wouldn't know why you missed it.  I took it as being consisant with 
>your general gutless approach.  I notre that I have answered your challenge to 
>prove before an impartial tribunal that you are a liar and an anti-Semite.  You have 
>never answered a single one.  I have noted that McVay has several times printed a 
>list of your lies and you have never answered.  I note that Kelly has several times 
>posted a refutation of your silly lies about the menorah and you have never 
>answered. I note that I posted three long bits on how you lied about the Dead Seas 
>Scrolls and you never answered.  I note that . . . . . .

>	Why go on and on?  The truth is L'il Tommy you run away so frequently, 
>that the justified asssumption is that -- when you do not answer -- you are running 
>away again.
>
>	In other words, L'il Tommy.  I think you're lying again.
>
>	--YFE

	Not a very interesting diversions. He's been through them a
number of times. For some reason he has left out his No.1 diversion
which is something like a, "KKKK"/"Jewish" connection.
 

What Mr.Edeiken is trying to say with such sentences as ...
 
	"I took it as being consisant with your general gutless
approach."
	"Why go on and on?  The truth is L'il Tommy you run away so
frequently, that the justified asssumption is that -- when you do not
answer -- you are running away again."
	and
	"I think you're lying again."

is that he lied about sending any e-mail to Moran, he lied about
posting comments about it, which all started out with him admitting he
lied ("retracted") about having 160 relatives killed in the Holocaust.

	Poor Mr.Edeiken


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 13:56:37 PDT 1996
Article: 51249 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!netcom.net.uk!news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ixnews1.ix.netcom.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:40:32 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4shh5p$42d@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-0.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>In article <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU
>(Richard J. Green) writes:
>
>>
>>
>>The Crackow team has demonstrated that HCN was present above
>>background levels.  Deniers have no explanation for the presence of HCN
>>in a facility built after the typhoid epidemic.
>>
>>If the barracks in which they measured no HCN were never fumigated, why
>did
>>they measure a higher level in the homicidal gas chambers?
>>
>>If the barracks were fumigated, why did they measure a higher level in
>the
>>homicidal gas chambers?
>>
>>Mr. Giwer will intervene with no answer and will predictably resort to 
>>ad hominem attacks.
>>
>>It should be noted that the researchers used a calibrated method and that
>>they discriminated against Prussian blue whose origin is not clear.
>>Leuchter did not do so.
>
>The remains that the traces of HCN in Krema II are quite small compared to
>the traces _in_ the delousing chambers, and _outside_ the delousing
>chambers (whose *Prussian Blue* traces have been *discriminated* against).
>Moreover, the traces of HCN in Krema II are comparable to the traces in
>the barracks, i.e., very small.
>
>In fact, from what I have seen on this subject, Leuchter, Krakow, and
>Rudolf are all in agreement as to the small traces of HCN in Krema II. 
>And that's why we have the current explanation, that the HCN was never
>allowed to linger in Krema II.
>
>I sincerely doubt that ZB was never used again for fumigation after the
>typhus epidemic in 1942.

	Facts:

	There was no "HCN" found in any studies. Only "cyanide
compounds". Nothing was proved to show any cyanide compounds found at
Crema II originated from "HCN".

	Photos of Crema II (collapsed rubble) are the only photos of any
extant ruins of "Cremas" presented by the Holocaust promotional
network, and yet the Crackow Institute claims to have taken samples
>from  the ruins of "Cremas III, IV and V".  

	Cyanide compounds are to be found that have originated from
natural sources. A number of plants produce HCN, including cherry
pits, oleander leaves and tulip bulbs. 

	HCN, which is unstable and rapidly mutates into other cyanide
compounds when exposed to water and other elements, is released en
mass from coke producing facilities into the atmosphere to become part
of the "acid rain" that falls to the earth. This process of massively
converting coal into coke had been taking place for decades preceding
WWII and after. Billions of tons of coal have been converted. 

	The amounts found at any "Creams" at Auschwitz today are
incredibly minute. Only a few micro grams per kilogram from samples
taken from any "Cremas". 



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 15:33:15 PDT 1996
Article: 51251 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:30:58 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31ecf448.2325963@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-0.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>    Except you left out mention of Mr. Edeiken's e-mail to you.  Doesn't
>    that make you a liar?  You might have a legitimate complaint about him
>    retracting his offer, but only if you put forward complete information
>    to lay out such a complaint.  If you lie by omission, you are no better
>    than you claim he is.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	Since Mr.Mittleman has put himself on record as endorsing
Mr.Edeiken's claim that he sent Moran e-mail, even adding information
about an "retraction" that Mr.Edeiken himself did not mention, we must
assume he has been in contact with Mr.Edeiken on the matter, and
perhaps he could convince Mr.Edeiken to post the dates, titles and
article I.D. numbers for the "several" postings he alleges he has
posted.
	Perhaps Mr.Mittleman already knows all this and can just post the
eveidence himself. How about it Mr.Mittleman, can you do it?



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 15:33:16 PDT 1996
Article: 51255 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!gatech!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:54:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <31ed0ca3.8561269@news.pacificnet.net>
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	"Indeed Mr. Thomas.  This may be the most honest and succinct
self-assessment I have ever seen from a "revisionist scholar"

It certainly far surpasses Moran's insight of a few (no make that
*many*, or at least *several*) months back that he "must be offering
up thoroughly ridiculous questions and responses"!"

hro

=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 23:21:03 PDT 1996
Article: 51290 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:13:23 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <31ee3850.492128@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-3.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


7/18/96

>Certainly does if it is in reference to anything of value emanating
>from the "Spirit 'n Paste Moranic Keyboard" [tm] - which only seems to
>operate in one mode: drivel>.  Truth, honesty and reality are concepts that are so foreign
>to Moran that he has banished them from his rigii - so that he can
>continue deluding himself (and occasionally amuse the rest of us!).  
>
>Moran obviously lives in the hope of attracting the attention and
>support of like-minded (I use the word _extremely_ loosely) ignorant
>twits.
>
>hro
>
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 23:21:04 PDT 1996
Article: 51291 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kids Stay Cozy in Gas Chambers
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:16:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <31ee38fa.661956@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e6641f.8716817@news.pacificnet.net> <4sidkb$1b6q@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> <31ed09e3.7856691@news.pacificnet.net> <31ee3d02.57883260@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-3.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) wrote:
>What publication is this? I'm very curious about this claim.

	The "Searchlight" - as mentioned above. I believe it is Christian
Science.

>
>
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 23:21:04 PDT 1996
Article: 51292 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:27:34 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <31ee3a32.973765@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ec23f4.1939182@news.pacificnet.net> <4shir2$9s9@news.enter.net> <31ecf410.2269995@news.pacificnet.net> <4slekh$r7s@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>: >	It's on dejanews, L'il Tommy.  Look for yourself.
>: 
>: 	I wonder what Mr.Mittleman has to say about this? Mr.Mittleman,
>: maybe you could have a word with your collegue in all this and try to
>: convince him to co-operate.
>
>Cooperate how, Tom?  Just point your rigii at dejanews, do a very simple
>search, and the post will appear before your startled eyes; I've seen it
>too.  Took me about five minutes.  Is there a problem here?

	Is your name Mr.Mittleman? Well since you jumped in to endorse
the contempt directed towards whoever reads it, maybe you can give the
name of the group in Deja News, the title of the article it is under,
and the article I.D. number.

	The list of rodeo clowns now on record as coming into endorse
Mr.Edeiken's idiocy is;

Mr.Mittleman
Mr. VanAlstine
Mr. Anderson
Chuck
Ms.Ostrov

	Mr.Anderson says he say the alleged article by Mr.Edeiken, so all
we have to do is to wait and see if he can deliver or if he is just
another little brat down by the school yard.

>Bill



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 23:21:05 PDT 1996
Article: 51293 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:47:26 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <31ee3ea9.2116919@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <31ecfd7a.4680104@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199621042580@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-3.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    I don't know.  All he used was the word "retraction".  I have not seen
>    the e-mail he sent you so I don't know the context.

	Well, this certainly is a revelation. I believe the record right
here in this thread shows that you are the one that introduced the
word "retraction" as to the contents of Mr.Edeiken's alleged e-mail to
Moran and here in the same gasping breath you are now saying you
"don't know the context" of this alleged e-mail.

	Poor Mr.Mittleman.

>    Only in horror of your stupidity.

	And evidentally anyone else who is reading Mr.Mittleman's
replies.
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 23:21:06 PDT 1996
Article: 51294 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:56:37 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31ee4087.2594986@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ecf448.2325963@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199620523126@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-3.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    Nope.  Mr. Edeiken and I have not had any communication outside of
>    public a.r posts since this issue came up.

	Okay. Again you are saying you introduced the "retraction' word
as to the contents of the alleged e-mail Mr.Edeiken says he sent
Moran, and you saying at the same time you never read it? 

>>	Perhaps Mr.Mittleman already knows all this and can just post the
>>eveidence himself. How about it Mr.Mittleman, can you do it?
>
>    No.  I have no knowledge other than what I read in posts.  I am in
>    Georgia at the moment and don't have access to my web browser to check
>    DejaNews until I get home on Saturday.

	What happened to the "URLs" you were talking about in regard to
carrying Mr.Edeiken's alleged referrence to the alleged e-mail?


>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	Evidentally Mr.Mittleman is in Georgia to attend the festivities
at the newest Ministry of Holocaust Love that has just opened, and
repoted on in alt.rev. under "Yet Another Ministry of Love". 
	Don't strain your neck looking at the rail road tracks mounted on
the ceiling Mr.Mittleman.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 18 23:21:06 PDT 1996
Article: 51298 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 13:38:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <31ee3bd6.1393612@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eb9155.2141745@news.pacificnet.net> <4sh1m2$5mr@news.enter.net> <16JUL199623093266@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ecfbc3.4241308@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199620595758@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-3.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    I have previously posted that I think Mr. Edeiken should provide the
>    URL.  Whether he does or not is between you and him.

	Sorry. We're talking about an alleged post on alt.revisionism and
filed in Deja News, remember. Now if your saying it is under some
"URL" maybe you should post all that any reader* would need to find
the article(s) Mr.Edeiken alleges he posted.

	*By "any reader" I assume you are aware you that by posting your
stuff on a open and public format like alt.revisionism, it is directed
at whoever should come along and read it.

>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 51318 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:32:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31ee2eda.139015@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ecf40a.2264338@news.pacificnet.net> <4sjie3$o34@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-1.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>  >	It's on dejanews.  I just checked.  Go use it.
>  
>>  	Really. I see you have opted not to give any information other
>>  than it is on Deja News. You also seem to not want to, or can't supply
>>  any title name and/or article I.D. number. In fact you didn't even
>>  mention what group it would be in. A good first guess would be, you
>>  assume any one your directing your directions to would assume it would
>>  be under alt.revisionism. But who knows? It could be under
>>  alt.outerspace and/or alt.nitwit and/or alt.liar as far as anyone
>>  would know.
>>  	My real guess is it's under, alt.mredeiken.

>	My real guess is that you are too stupid to be able to find it.

>	Go look.  It's there.

		Okay, I looked under "alt.mredeiken" and it wasn't there.

		Mr.Edeiken, when you say Moran is "too stupid to be able to
find it", going by your directions of course, do you mean Moran is
"too stupid" or are you referring to anyone who can't find it? Going
by your directions of course. 




From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 51319 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:33:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <31ee2eee.158898@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ecf410.2269995@news.pacificnet.net> <4sji51$o34@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-1.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>  >	It's on dejanews, L'il Tommy.  Look for yourself.
  
>>  	I wonder what Mr.Mittleman has to say about this? Mr.Mittleman,
>>  maybe you could have a word with your collegue in all this and try to
>>  convince him to co-operate.

>	Cooperate with what?  Getting you to use Deja News?  Do it L'il Tommy.

		Is your name "Mr.Mittleman"?



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:29:58 PDT 1996
Article: 51320 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:33:48 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31ee2f10.192786@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ecf419.2279607@news.pacificnet.net> <4sjikq$o34@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-1.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  >	It's on dejanews, L'il Tommy.  I just checked.  Look for it.
>  
>>  	Poor Mr.Edeiken. He refuses to put the evidence foward. He says
>>  he has found gold. He says he has filed the claim and he wants to sell
>>  stock in the mine. His prospective clients ask him to show them the
>>  mine. He shows them a satellite picture of Mars and says, 'Right
>>  there'. He thinks to himself, 'These stupid goyems'.
>
>	No I think to myself.  A lying anti-Semite without the cjones to even 
>deny that he publishes articles attributing acts of the KKKK to a "Jewish group" 
>has called me a liar and asked for proof that I am not.  When pointed to a 
>source that has indisputable proof that I am correct, he says.  No that is not 
>good enough for me.  I want you to tell me."  In other words the person I think is 
>stupid is L'il Tommy.
>
>	--YFE

		Just get it over with Mr.Edeiken, just post the whole works.
Cut it - paste it. Easy. Prove yourself. Don't let Moran lead you
around. Maybe he doesn't really know what your talking about or where
you say the evidence is. Just cut it - paste it. Make that Moran pay.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:29:58 PDT 1996
Article: 51321 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:34:46 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31ee2f41.242054@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ecf414.2274279@news.pacificnet.net> <4sji75$o34@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-1.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  >
>>  >	Mr.Edeiken, what "original" post are you talking about? On what
>>  >date did you post it, under what title and what is the article I.D.
>>  >number?
>  
>>  	Seems Mr.Edeiken wore himself out and missed this one.
>
>	Since your question was elsewhere answered there was no need.

		What "question" is that? 
>
>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 51322 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: Jamie, down by the school yard
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 12:35:04 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31ee2f6c.285280@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ebc9d4.16604871@news.pacificnet.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-1.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:51322 alt.stupidity:41109

jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>Once again I'm a sucker for my name in the subject line (sigh).
>
>Yes, it's true that I wrote:
>
>> In other words, Tom Moran couldn't even figure out how his software
>> worked.  (snicker)
>> 
>> Bwahahaha!
>> 
>> Bwahaha!


>However, Mr. Moran omits the context, as usual.
	
You mean the "context" between "Bwahahaha" and "Bwahaha"?



>http://127.0.0.1/complaintdesk/
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
> Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:29:59 PDT 1996
Article: 51383 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Web Browser Incompetence
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:46:26 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 104
Message-ID: <31ef8397.579953@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net> <4sbilo$o70@access5.digex.net> <31e9772a.1743758@news.pacificnet.net> <4sjanh$sma@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-13.pacificnet.net
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

	Modified for easy reading.

Moran:
>>	When Mr.Stein tries to insult me with,  "Of course he will never
>>bother to learn German so that he can educate himself", he implies the
>>same for anyone reading his thing who doesn't read German.

Stein:
>    I do not.  I only imply the same for those who spend their time
>sniveling and complaining about the information being in German rather
>than being thankful the information is there at all and doing what they
>have to do to use the information.

Moaran:
>>Does this mean that Mr.Stein reads German?

Stein:
>    It does not mean that I read German.  The fact that I do read German
>is completely independent of my remarks.

>    It means you snivel and complain about someone giving you German.
>Now, do you see the Germans who post here sniveling and complaining
>because you post in English?

Moran:
>>When Mr.Stein says, "He expects Nizkor to spoon feed him right now, or
>> else he'll snivel and complain and stamp his foot because he isn't
>> getting what he wants, right now! does he direct this to me personally
>> or is it directed to the general reader?

Stein:
>    It's directed to whoever is sniveling and complaining.  Do you see
>anyone sniveling and complaining about it being in German besides little
>Tommy Moran?  I don't.

Mortan:
>>	Mr.Stein tries to argue that translating a few pages of a
>>technical paper is very difficult. Technical subjects are far more
>>easier to translate than other topics where sayings and idioms are
>>used extensively.

Stein:
>    How would you know?  Which languages do you speak, Tommy, and where
>did you learn them and how long did you study them?

>    Technical papers are full of technical words you don't normally learn
>in German class.  So you have to keep going to the dictionary, and a very
>comprehensive one.  On the other hand, language classes do teach everyday
>idioms.

Moran:
>>>>My opinion is that Nizkor is engaged in a corrupt practice, insulting
>>>>to anyone who would access the site, intentionally.

Stein:
>>>    My opinion is that Tom Moran is a loud fool who cannot figure out how
>>>to "incite his rigii" properly and then blames Nizkor for his own
>>>foolish mistakes.

Moran:
>>	We will just have to wait and see what Jamie has to say. I wonder
>>if Mr.Stien has any idea of how Jamie would come to say Nizkor has
>>some "very interesting source documents", referring to the topic here,
>>and he doesn't know German and the document hasn't been translated
>>yet? What about it Mr.Stein, you omitted addressing this question
>>which was posed in the article to which have selectively chosen only
>>parts to respond to.

>>	I wonder when Mr.Stein berates Moran for not knowing German if
>>this would apply to Jamie also?

Stein:
>    Both Jamie and I can read German, little Tommy.  I don't say I'm
>great; I need to consult a dictionary more often than I would like, but I
>have done German translations when the need arises.  I also speak French,
>rather better than I do German.
>    What you weren't smart enough to figure out, little Tommy, was that
>even if the document were in English, it would still need fifteen pages of
>hand-typing to copy from the picture image to text.  Fifteen pages takes
>some time all by itself.

Moran:
>>>>For anyone wanting to experience the idiotic contempt, check it out.

Stein:
>>>    No, anyone wanting to experience idiotic contempt should check out
>>>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom - now THERE is
>>>some idiotic contempt!

Moran:
>>	NO, NO. Not that again. Too bad these people who keep referring
>>others to Nizkor dossiers don't just post the stuff instead of asking
>>them to wade through the Nizkor mess.

Stein:
>    It's hard to miss the idiotic contempt - not much wading is required.

 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:30:00 PDT 1996
Article: 51384 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Socrates and Plato for Revisionist Rights
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:48:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <31ef8422.718419@news.pacificnet.net>
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Posted from e-mail from Richard Widman on behalf of the poetically
titled organization, "Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust".

MAN SENTENCED TO DEATH FOR QUESTIONING ORTHODOXY

"The effect of these investigations of mine, gentlemen,, has been 
to arouse against me a great deal of hostility, and hostility of a 
particularly bitter and persistent kind... There is another reason 
for my being unpopular.  A number of young men with wealthy fathers 
and plenty of leisure have deliberately attached themselves to me 
because they enjoy hearing other people cross-questioned.  These 
often take me as their model, and go on to try to question other 
persons; whereupon, I suppose, they find an unlimited number of 
people who think that they know something, but really know little 
or nothing.  Consequently their victims become annoyed, not with 
themselves but with me; and they complain that there is a 
pestilential busybody called Socrates who fills young people's 
heads with wrong ideas.  If you ask them what he does, and what he 
teaches that has this effect, they have no answer, not knowing what 
to say; but as they do not want to admit their confusion, they fall 
back on the stock charges against any philosopher: that he teaches 
his pupils about things in the heavens and below the earth, and to 
disbelieve in gods, and to make the weaker argument defeat the 
stronger.  They would be very loath, I fancy, to admit the truth: 
which is that they are being convicted of pretending to knowledge 
when they are entirely ignorant.  So, jealous, I suppose, for their 
own reputation, and also energetic and numerically strong, and 
provided with a plausible and carefully worked out case against me, 
these people have been dinning into your ears for a long time past 
their violent denunciations of myself."

Socrates as recorded by Plato in Apology 22E-24A

Note: In 399 B.C. Socrates was sentenced to death for 
Thoughtcrimes.

	He had the options of denying what he had put forth, take
banishment or drink poisonous Hemlock. He defended what he had said
and took the drink. 

	Socrates died for all those, to this day, in a struggle against
those who would have us accept their thought imposed by force and
intrigue.  

 ********

PLEASE NOTE: If you prefer not to receive any future 
"Communications" please send an email message to Widmann@gnn.com.  
Simply state on the email - "REMOVE," and you will promptly be 
removed from this private mailing list.

Your comments are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Richard Widmann

************************************************
Bradley R. Smith
Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH)
The Internet Project
http://www.codoh.com/
Email: CODOHmail@aol.com

or
Bradley R. Smith
C.O.D.O.H.
P.O. Box 3267
Visalia CA 93278
****************************************************







From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:30:01 PDT 1996
Article: 51385 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:51:45 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <31ef84db.903406@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4shh5p$42d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net>
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>	Facts:
>
>	There was no "HCN" found in any studies. Only "cyanide
>compounds". Nothing was proved to show any cyanide compounds found at
>Crema II originated from "HCN".
>
>	Photos of Crema II (collapsed rubble) are the only photos of any
>extant ruins of "Cremas" presented by the Holocaust promotional
>network, and yet the Crackow Institute claims to have taken samples
>from the ruins of "Cremas III, IV and V".  
>
>	Cyanide compounds are to be found that have originated from
>natural sources. A number of plants produce HCN, including cherry
>pits, oleander leaves and tulip bulbs. 
>
>	HCN, which is unstable and rapidly mutates into other cyanide
>compounds when exposed to water and other elements, is released en
>mass from coke producing facilities into the atmosphere to become part
>of the "acid rain" that falls to the earth. This process of massively
>converting coal into coke had been taking place for decades preceding
>WWII and after. Billions of tons of coal have been converted. 
>
>	The amounts found at any "Creams" at Auschwitz today are
>incredibly minute. Only a few micro grams per kilogram from samples
>taken from any "Cremas". 
>
	Thus, if the researchers at Auschwitz had done tests to samples
taken from any ground or footings of buildings, they would have found
some traces of cyanide compounds. 
	
	Mr.Green constantly harps on "control" samples taken from
barracks that never were fumigated. Okay. No CN compounds found. The
samples were taken from inside, which are protected from the rain,
which is a solution of many compounds, more so than pure water, and
the footings and rubble of any "cremas" would have been exposed. A
real control on the tests would have been to take samples from local
ground and measure that against any levels from the remains of any
"cremas". Mr.Green has never, in all the times he has mustered the
"control" samples from the barracks, related how they would be
relevant to any conclusion. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:30:02 PDT 1996
Article: 51386 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:49:42 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31ef845d.777188@news.pacificnet.net>
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <31ebb96b.12403383@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	Mr.(s) Edeiken and Mittleman along with Mr.Stein are big on
>	alleging Moran has committed "lies", "anti-Semitisms",
>	"evasions" and other naughty things. Moran simply asks,
>	"Wherzat?". The trio then just reiterates the same thing.
>
>Mr. Edeiken: 1 + 1 = 2.
>
>Mr. Moran: Wherzat?
>
>Mr. Mittleman: 1 + 1 = 2.
>
>Mr. Moran: Wherzat?
>
>Mr. Stein: 1 + 1 = 2.
>
>Mr. Moran: Wherzat?  The trio just reiterates the same thing.
>
>--
>Harry Katz

	Really? Wherzat?
>Man sees all the faults but his own.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:30:02 PDT 1996
Article: 51392 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:50:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31ef8468.788173@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ee2eda.139015@news.pacificnet.net> <4smm75$g25@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>
>>  
>>  		Mr.Edeiken, when you say Moran is "too stupid to be able to
>>  find it", going by your directions of course, do you mean Moran is
>>  "too stupid" or are you referring to anyone who can't find it? Going
>>  by your directions of course. 
>
>	No.  Just you.  You are about the stupidest person I know.  By the way, 
>thanks for the confirmation that you can't figure out how to use a filter on Deja 
>News.  Odd, that being the case, that you have directed other people there.
>
>	--YFE

	"Filter"? Who mentioned a "filter"? Are you saying by engaging
the filter this will get one to the alleged article(s) you say you
posted about making comment about on alleged e-mail you sent to Moran?
Seems so. Maybe you could expand on that a bit more?
	In other words Mr.Edeiken - Howzat? 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 07:30:03 PDT 1996
Article: 51393 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:50:42 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31ef8498.836068@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ee3a32.973765@news.pacificnet.net> <4smmie$g25@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
>>
>>  >
>>  >Cooperate how, Tom?  Just point your rigii at dejanews, do a very simple
>>  >search, and the post will appear before your startled eyes; I've seen it
>>  >too.  Took me about five minutes.  Is there a problem here?
>>  
>>  	Is your name Mr.Mittleman? Well since you jumped in to endorse
>>  the contempt directed towards whoever reads it, maybe you can give the
>>  name of the group in Deja News, the title of the article it is under,
>>  and the article I.D. number.
>
>	Why do continue to insist that others do your work for you.  The only 
>one showing contempt here is L'il Tommy liar and anti-Semite.  Since you seem 
>unable to use Deja News, why don't you just say so instead of making a fool of 
>yourself.
>
>	--YFE

	Just Mr.Edeiken's way of saying he can't really direct anyone to

some alleged article he claims he posted on alt.revisionmism. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 09:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 51394 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:50:51 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31ef84a4.848481@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ee2f10.192786@news.pacificnet.net> <4smmq5$g25@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  
>>  >	No I think to myself.  A lying anti-Semite without the cjones to even 
>>  >deny that he publishes articles attributing acts of the KKKK to a "Jewish 
>group" 
>>  >has called me a liar and asked for proof that I am not.  When pointed to a 
>>  >source that has indisputable proof that I am correct, he says.  No that is not 
>>  >good enough for me.  I want you to tell me."  In other words the person I think 
>is 
>>  >stupid is L'il Tommy.
>
>>  
>>  		Just get it over with Mr.Edeiken, just post the whole works.
>
>	Get what over with L'il Tommy.  You making an ass of yourself?  It's 
>fun.
>
>>  Cut it - paste it. Easy. Prove yourself. Don't let Moran lead you
>>  around. Maybe he doesn't really know what your talking about or where
>>  you say the evidence is.
>
>	That's a given.
>	--YFE
	
 	"That's a given"?  Wherzat?


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 09:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 51397 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:21:25 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <31ef8833.1759687@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ecf448.2325963@news.pacificnet.net> <31ee4087.2594986@news.pacificnet.net> <18JUL199618290059@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ee4087.2594986@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>    Nope.  Mr. Edeiken and I have not had any communication outside of
>>>    public a.r posts since this issue came up.
>> 
>>	Okay. Again you are saying you introduced the "retraction' word
>>as to the contents of the alleged e-mail Mr.Edeiken says he sent
>>Moran, and you saying at the same time you never read it? 
>
>    That's right.  All I read was Mr. Edeiken's post to a.r where he
>    reported he made such a retraction to you via e-mail.  Maybe you missed
>    that post.
>
>>>>	Perhaps Mr.Mittleman already knows all this and can just post the
>>>>eveidence himself. How about it Mr.Mittleman, can you do it?
>>>
>>>    No.  I have no knowledge other than what I read in posts.  I am in
>>>    Georgia at the moment and don't have access to my web browser to check
>>>    DejaNews until I get home on Saturday.
>> 
>>	What happened to the "URLs" you were talking about in regard to
>>carrying Mr.Edeiken's alleged referrence to the alleged e-mail?
>
>    What URLs was I talking about?  I haven't offered any URLs as I don't
>    know them.  If I could get at Dejanews right now I would certainly
>    offer them - and if you still care about this matter when I return home
>    I will be happy to back up all my statements with URLs.

	 "What URLs was I talking about? I haven't offered any URLs as I
don't know them. If I could get at Dejanews right now I would
certainly offer them."

	Interesting. Mr.Mittleman states, "I haven't offered any URLs"
but if he could get to Deja News he "would certainly offer them".
 

	I can see the Moran post now, that recaps Mr.Mittleman's
introduction of the word "retraction", his claim that he saw it on
alt.revisionism and Deja News, his switching over to talk "URLs", and
the rest, the post being titled - "When I return ... I will".

>>	Evidentally Mr.Mittleman is in Georgia to attend the festivities
>>at the newest Ministry of Holocaust Love that has just opened, and
>>repoted on in alt.rev. under "Yet Another Ministry of Love".
>
>    Huh?  What are you talking about?
>
>>	Don't strain your neck looking at the rail road tracks mounted on
>>the ceiling Mr.Mittleman.
>
>    I have no idea what you are rambling on about.  Methinks you are a
>    loon.

	"Me" - "thinks"?

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 09:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 51398 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:28:01 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <31ef8c2c.2776184@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <31ee3ea9.2116919@news.pacificnet.net> <18JUL199618250488@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ee3ea9.2116919@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>    I don't know.  All he used was the word "retraction".  I have not seen
>>>    the e-mail he sent you so I don't know the context.
>> 
>>	Well, this certainly is a revelation. I believe the record right
>>here in this thread shows that you are the one that introduced the
>>word "retraction" as to the contents of Mr.Edeiken's alleged e-mail to
>
>    I believe both Mr. Edeiken and I have clearly stated several times that
>    Mr. Edeiken introduced the word "retraction."  That is how I learned of
>    the word.

	Interesting. Mr.Mittleman says, "...both Mr.Edeiken and I have
clearly stated several times that Mr.Edeiken introduced the word
'retraction'. Thats how I learned of the word". He says he learned of
the word from his own statement? 

Poor Mr.Mittleman.

>>Moran and here in the same gasping breath you are now saying you
>>"don't know the context" of this alleged e-mail.
>> 
>>	Poor Mr.Mittleman.
>
>    I am doing just fine, zeyde.  It is you who are confused... again.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 09:07:02 PDT 1996
Article: 51399 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:31:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <31ef8df0.3228766@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4shh5p$42d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net> <4sn0ql$57a@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>
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rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU
>>>(Richard J. Green) writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Crackow team has demonstrated that HCN was present above
>>>>background levels.  Deniers have no explanation for the presence of HCN
>>>>in a facility built after the typhoid epidemic.
>>>>
>>>>If the barracks in which they measured no HCN were never fumigated, why
>>>did
>>>>they measure a higher level in the homicidal gas chambers?
>>>>
>>>>If the barracks were fumigated, why did they measure a higher level in
>>>the
>>>>homicidal gas chambers?
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Giwer will intervene with no answer and will predictably resort to 
>>>>ad hominem attacks.
>>>>
>>>>It should be noted that the researchers used a calibrated method and that
>>>>they discriminated against Prussian blue whose origin is not clear.
>>>>Leuchter did not do so.
>>>
>>>The remains that the traces of HCN in Krema II are quite small compared to
>>>the traces _in_ the delousing chambers, and _outside_ the delousing
>>>chambers (whose *Prussian Blue* traces have been *discriminated* against).
>>>Moreover, the traces of HCN in Krema II are comparable to the traces in
>>>the barracks, i.e., very small.
>>>
>>>In fact, from what I have seen on this subject, Leuchter, Krakow, and
>>>Rudolf are all in agreement as to the small traces of HCN in Krema II. 
>>>And that's why we have the current explanation, that the HCN was never
>>>allowed to linger in Krema II.
>>>
>>>I sincerely doubt that ZB was never used again for fumigation after the
>>>typhus epidemic in 1942.
>>
>>	Facts:
>>
>>	There was no "HCN" found in any studies. Only "cyanide
>>compounds". Nothing was proved to show any cyanide compounds found at
>>Crema II originated from "HCN".
>
>How would Mr. Moran recommend proving that?  They were detecting
>cyanides in solution, Mr. Moran!  
>
>The reactions:
>
>2H2O => OH-  +  H3O+
>
>and
>
>HCN.H2O => CN-  + H3O+
>
>will control the relation between HCN and CN- in solution no matter
>which you start with n'est-ce pas?
>
>>	Photos of Crema II (collapsed rubble) are the only photos of any
>>extant ruins of "Cremas" presented by the Holocaust promotional
>>network, and yet the Crackow Institute claims to have taken samples
>>from the ruins of "Cremas III, IV and V".  
>
>So they took samples from all 4 Cremas at Birkenau; what's your point?
>
>>	Cyanide compounds are to be found that have originated from
>>natural sources. A number of plants produce HCN, including cherry
>>pits, oleander leaves and tulip bulbs. 
>
>Are there cherry trees growing inside the Cremas?  Oleander leaves?
>Tulip bulbs?  What is the source of this cyanide if not Zyklon-B,
>Mr. Moran?
>
>>	HCN, which is unstable and rapidly mutates into other cyanide
>>compounds when exposed to water and other elements, is released en
>>mass from coke producing facilities into the atmosphere to become part
>>of the "acid rain" that falls to the earth. 
>
>What is the concentration of CN- in rainwater?  Which coke facilities
>released HCN into the air rather than condensing it?  Where is the
>nearest coke refinery to A-B?
>
>>This process of massively
>>converting coal into coke had been taking place for decades preceding
>>WWII and after. Billions of tons of coal have been converted. 
>>
>>	The amounts found at any "Creams" at Auschwitz today are
>>incredibly minute. Only a few micro grams per kilogram from samples
>>taken from any "Cremas". 
>
>First of all, you don't understand what the concentrations they refer to
>mean.  Secondly, you have no idea whether that's a small amount or a
>large amount.
>
>If HCN is so ubiquitous, why was it not detected in locations other than
>where zyklon-B was used?
>
>Regards,
>
>Rich Green
>
>
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7

	Mr.Green, why don't you post the names of some of your school
mates in the chemistry dept. and we can ask them for a second opinion?



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:14 PDT 1996
Article: 51415 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!netaxs.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:57:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <31ed0d2c.8698142@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	Looks like "Any day now" really means 'Never'.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:15 PDT 1996
Article: 51458 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.white-power,alt.president.clinton,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.society.civil-disob,alt.society.civil-liberties,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.society.conservatism
Subject: Re: Israel's War Against the United States, I
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:49:30 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <31ef8449.757690@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4sme17$jgs@test-sun.erols.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.usa.misc:96298 alt.politics.usa.republican:236863 alt.politics.white-power:36534 alt.president.clinton:82553 alt.revisionism:51458 alt.skinheads:32250 alt.society.civil-disob:1789 alt.society.civil-liberties:8647 alt.society.civil-liberty:47436 alt.society.conservatism:46662

e a richardson  wrote:

	Thanks for the excellent words.

It appears it might be true that the Jews are the most wholesome lot
of all.  At least that's what I get from the editiorials, letters to
the editors and the full and quarter page ads that appear almost
weekly in the N.Y.Times, written by the Jews themselves.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:16 PDT 1996
Article: 51459 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:46:01 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31ef837d.553918@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net> <31eb8984.140608@news.pacificnet.net> <16JUL199623215409@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ed03f6.6340047@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199620583830@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ed03f6.6340047@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <31eb8984.140608@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>	Seems every click in Nizkor brings you to a loony toon.
>>>
>>>    You must be using their "mirror" site.
>>>
>>>                         daniel david mittleman 
>>>===========================================================================
>    The difference between my criticisms of you and your criticisms of me
>    is that mine are supportable with evidence from your posts as I have
>    previously demonstrated.  Yours are simply hollow imitation of my
>    methods.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	Now there's an announcement, without any further supporting
particulars.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:17 PDT 1996
Article: 51460 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:46:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31ef838d.569572@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e90cca.8929322@news.pacificnet.net> <31e91163.10107078@news.pacificnet.net> <4sk7ro$2req@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>Err....  Maybe Mr. McCarthy reads German?  Maybe Mr. McCarthy knows someone
>who reads German?  Maybe Mr. McCarthy both reads German and knows someone
>who reads German?  You see, Mr. Moron, the possibilities are endless.

	Almost an "endless" run of "maybe"s.
>
>--
>Gord McFee
>
>
>
>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331
>
>                       



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:17 PDT 1996
Article: 51461 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:46:36 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <31ef83a6.594068@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ed0a97.8037175@news.pacificnet.net> <4sjiq6$o34@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>
>>  >    A nod's as good as a wink to a blind man, eh zeyde?
>
>>  	Thank you for the confirmation of my post.
>
>	How did telling you that you were too dishonest or too bigoted to 
>understand your own dishoensty and your own bigotry a confirmation of your 
>post?
>
>	--YFE

	Thank you for the further additional confirmation of my post.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 51462 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:46:47 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <31ef83ae.602362@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net> <16JUL199623472489@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ed0a97.8037175@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199621082464@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ed0a97.8037175@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>	So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in response to
>>>>this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.
>>>
>>>    A nod's as good as a wink to a blind man, eh zeyde?
>>>
>>	Thank you for the confirmation of my post.
>
>    ditto!   :>

	I think Mr.Mittleman means Goose step "ditto".

	Thank you for the further additional "ditto" confirmation of my
post.

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:19 PDT 1996
Article: 51463 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:47:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <31ef83d1.637844@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ec241f.1982243@news.pacificnet.net> <4shiml$9s9@news.enter.net> <31ecf419.2279607@news.pacificnet.net> <31EE5EAD.115C@gryn.org>
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Alec Grynspan  wrote:

>tom moran wrote:
>> 
>>         Poor Mr.Edeiken. He refuses to put the evidence foward. He says
>> he has found gold. He says he has filed the claim and he wants to sell
>> stock in the mine. His prospective clients ask him to show them the
>
>He has put the evidence forward. 

	Thanks for signing on to support whatever Mr.Edeiken.
Maybe you could give the exact location for the evidence that
Mr.Edeiken posted comments "here" on alt.revisionism about his alleged
e-mail to Moran.

>> mine. He shows them a satellite picture of Mars and says, 'Right
>> there'. He thinks to himself, 'These stupid goyems'.
>
>No - mor like "Moran the Moron".
>
>
>My apologies.
>
>To the morons, that is.
	The goyem "morons" [moron(s)] you mean? Or to anyone who is
following this?
>
>
>>



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:19 PDT 1996
Article: 51464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:47:11 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <31ef83ba.614171@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <31ecfd7a.4680104@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199621042580@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>    I don't know.  All he used was the word "retraction".  I have not seen
>    the e-mail he sent you so I don't know the context.

	The record of the thread shows it was Mr.Mittleman himself who
introduced the word "retraction" and yet here he is saying it was
Mr.Edeiken.

	Of course Mr.Mittleman could direct anyone to where it was first
introduced by Mr.Edeiken to show he is not committing a fabrication.

	My guess would be he will resort to some unsubstantiated evasive
diversion.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:20 PDT 1996
Article: 51465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:47:59 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <31ef83ed.665471@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net> <31eb8984.140608@news.pacificnet.net> <16JUL199623215409@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ed03f6.6340047@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199620583830@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    The difference between my criticisms of you and your criticisms of me
>    is that mine are supportable with evidence from your posts as I have
>    previously demonstrated.  Yours are simply hollow imitation of my
>    methods.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
	
	Interesting statement. Kind of appears to be a self condemnation
of his own "methods".

	Anyway, here is a list of Moran's methods for revealing lies,
contempt, corruption, baby talk, inconsistancies, goose stepping, etc.

Moran's methods posted directly to alt.revisionism in lieu of just
stating he has done so.

"How soon is soon"

"'Just ask for Rachelle'"

"'Coming to a newsgroup near you'"

"Nizkor's code of responding"

"The Best of Nizkor"

"'I will ... this weekend'"

"McVay, down by the school yard"

"The cultured McVay"

"Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt"

"Treblinka, there, gone, there again"

"Nizkor/JDL ... against evil Christians"

"Boys in the Sand"

"Boys in the Sand II"

"Morans Dreams Vanish"

....	and the host of others. 

	Maybe Mr.Mittleman will post his stuff instead of just claiming,
boasting, alleging and asserting he has.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:21 PDT 1996
Article: 51466 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:49:11 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <31ef8432.734292@news.pacificnet.net>
References: 
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iznogod  wrote:

>I would like to know where everyone stands on revisionism. I'm new to 
>this nwsgrp, but I'm very interested in having enlightening discussions.
>
>
>
>A.
	You would probably want to start out by following Moran's stuff.
This way you will get an instant lesson in the difference in material
that doesn't insult your sense of intelligence and stuff that does.
	Moran will give you straight foward material and the responses
will ... Well just follow along and you will see.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:22 PDT 1996
Article: 51467 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:51:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <31ef84ad.857104@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ee3ea9.2116919@news.pacificnet.net> <4smm96$g25@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-13.pacificnet.net
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  
>>  	Well, this certainly is a revelation. I believe the record right
>>  here in this thread shows that you are the one that introduced the
>>  word "retraction" as to the contents of Mr.Edeiken's alleged e-mail to
>>  Moran and here in the same gasping breath you are now saying you
>>  "don't know the context" of this alleged e-mail.
>
>	No. I did.  That's how he was able to find it.

	...find "it"? Whatzat?   ..."find" it? Wherzat?
>
>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:22 PDT 1996
Article: 51468 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:51:35 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31ef84d2.894783@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31dfcc8b.4344732@news.pacificnet.net> <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net> <4sme9j$rf4@shiva.usa.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-13.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <31ebcd72.17530302@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	So far a lot of snarling and foaming at the mouth in response to
>	this post, but nothing of substance to undo it.
>
>That's because so far Mr. Moran has posted nothing of substance to
>support it!
>
>--
>Harry Katz

	Thanks for confirming my previous conclusions that nothing has
been offered as yet to undo the main article.


>He who has no wife is esteemed as dead.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:23 PDT 1996
Article: 51469 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:51:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31ef84bb.870945@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ee4087.2594986@news.pacificnet.net> <4smmjt$g25@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-13.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  	Okay. Again you are saying you introduced the "retraction' word
>>  as to the contents of the alleged e-mail Mr.Edeiken says he sent
>>  Moran, and you saying at the same time you never read it? 
>
>	It's not "alleged."  It's real.  It should be noted in all of this, you have 
>never denied receiving the e-mail.
>
>	--YFE

	Sure I did. I said, "going by my experiences in the universe it
would have been impossible". That not written and sent, can't be read.


	Come on Mr.Edeiken, why don't you just come out and admit your a
liar like you did by admitting you lied ("retracted") about having 160
relatives killed in the "Holocaust"? Be nice.
	I thought after you having to own up to lieing about that phantom
person "Rachelle", at the Allentown Public Library, you should have
learned your lesson.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:24 PDT 1996
Article: 51470 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Any day now"?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:52:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31ef84e5.913292@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e6497a.1895296@news.pacificnet.net> <31e65fca.7607002@news.pacificnet.net>  <31e79785.462852@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-13.pacificnet.net
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>Jamie notes below that he has sent off his response to Dr.Roessler,
>and perhaps the doctor will come out to straighten it all out.>

>>Posted;  emailed to Mr. Moran and Dr. Roessler.
 
>> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
>> jamie@voyager.net     Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>> Hate mail will be posted.

	I believe Jamie had mentioned that the doctor is a patron of
alt.revisionism now and then. 

	He hasn't shown up yet to give any imput on the release rate of
Zyklon B. Jamie did send him an e-mail wising him up to what's going
on right here and now. At least he said he did. Maybe he was trying to
scare someone into giving up the pursuit to avoid a confrontation with
the doctor.
	I wonder if the doctor speaks English. But then one might think
he would have translated the little patent. If he doesn't speak
English, one might wonder how Jamie could communicate with him. We
know Jamie doesn't know how to read German because he ask Moran to
translate it for him.

	What a mess.   



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:25 PDT 1996
Article: 51471 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:52:59 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <31ef851c.968327@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ebb96b.12403383@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-13.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Incredibly poetic. Moran posts "Substance and Hot Air" which
summarizes and shows the difference between submitting the evidence
instead of referring to alleged evidence. Moran posted the
"Substance", and a whole bunch of people sign on to post examples of
the "Hot Air".


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:25 PDT 1996
Article: 51472 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:02:54 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 22
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31ee3bd6.1393612@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>    I have previously posted that I think Mr. Edeiken should provide the
>>>    URL.  Whether he does or not is between you and him.
>> 
>>	Sorry. We're talking about an alleged post on alt.revisionism and
>>filed in Deja News, remember. Now if your saying it is under some
>>"URL" maybe you should post all that any reader* would need to find
>             ^^^^^^^^^^
>>the article(s) Mr.Edeiken alleges he posted.
>
>    I don't owe you anything here.


>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	"Owe"? Who said anything about "owe"? 
Evidentally this is Mr.Mittleman's way of admitting he is corrupt.



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 19 16:20:26 PDT 1996
Article: 51481 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bookburnings!  Who encourages it?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 13:33:11 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
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CODOH@msn.com (Bradley Smith) wrote:

>The book in question is being posted on CODOH International, chapter 
>by chapter. Burned in Germany, shut down in the U.S., but not yet 
>destroyed. Who wants to destroy such books?

Anyone who doesn't have the will or the way to counter them with
words.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:41 PDT 1996
Article: 51584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:12:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 186
Message-ID: <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4shh5p$42d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net> <4sn0ql$57a@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>
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rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU
>>>(Richard J. Green) writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Crackow team has demonstrated that HCN was present above
>>>>background levels.  Deniers have no explanation for the presence of HCN
>>>>in a facility built after the typhoid epidemic.
>>>>
>>>>If the barracks in which they measured no HCN were never fumigated, why
>>>did
>>>>they measure a higher level in the homicidal gas chambers?
>>>>
>>>>If the barracks were fumigated, why did they measure a higher level in
>>>the
>>>>homicidal gas chambers?
>>>>
>>>>Mr. Giwer will intervene with no answer and will predictably resort to 
>>>>ad hominem attacks.
>>>>
>>>>It should be noted that the researchers used a calibrated method and that
>>>>they discriminated against Prussian blue whose origin is not clear.
>>>>Leuchter did not do so.
>>>
>>>The remains that the traces of HCN in Krema II are quite small compared to
>>>the traces _in_ the delousing chambers, and _outside_ the delousing
>>>chambers (whose *Prussian Blue* traces have been *discriminated* against).
>>>Moreover, the traces of HCN in Krema II are comparable to the traces in
>>>the barracks, i.e., very small.
>>>
>>>In fact, from what I have seen on this subject, Leuchter, Krakow, and
>>>Rudolf are all in agreement as to the small traces of HCN in Krema II. 
>>>And that's why we have the current explanation, that the HCN was never
>>>allowed to linger in Krema II.
>>>
>>>I sincerely doubt that ZB was never used again for fumigation after the
>>>typhus epidemic in 1942.
>>
>>	Facts:
>>
>>	There was no "HCN" found in any studies. Only "cyanide
>>compounds". Nothing was proved to show any cyanide compounds found at
>>Crema II originated from "HCN".
>
>How would Mr. Moran recommend proving that?  They were detecting
>cyanides in solution, Mr. Moran!  
>
>The reactions:
>
>2H2O => OH-  +  H3O+
>
>and
>
>HCN.H2O => CN-  + H3O+
>
>will control the relation between HCN and CN- in solution no matter
>which you start with n'est-ce pas?

	No relevance given. Mr.Green's practice of introducing some
chemical equations to give his stuff a sense of authority. 
>
>>	Photos of Crema II (collapsed rubble) are the only photos of any
>>extant ruins of "Cremas" presented by the Holocaust promotional
>>network, and yet the Crackow Institute claims to have taken samples
>>from the ruins of "Cremas III, IV and V".  
>
>So they took samples from all 4 Cremas at Birkenau; what's your point?

	There are no extant ruins associated with any Cremas III, IV and
V. If there are any ruins at all, they have never been, or will they
ever be presented, via photographs, in the Holocaust promotional sales
package.

	As far as I know, any areas said to have been locations for these
cremas are off limits to Birkenau visitors. What could be left of say
"IV" and "V" if they were built above ground, as compared to all that
is left of "II" which was partly under ground, and is shown as nothing
more than a caved in slab of concrete? No photographic presentation
given for "III" which was also said to have had sub-terrainian gas
chambers. 

>>	Cyanide compounds are to be found that have originated from
>>natural sources. A number of plants produce HCN, including cherry
>>pits, oleander leaves and tulip bulbs. 
>
>Are there cherry trees growing inside the Cremas?  Oleander leaves?
>Tulip bulbs?  What is the source of this cyanide if not Zyklon-B,
>Mr. Moran?

	It shows that HCN is produced by natural forces and therefore any
cyanide compounds found can be sourced from natural processes, whether
or not there were or are any of the sources found in Auschwitz
locally.

>>	HCN, which is unstable and rapidly mutates into other cyanide
>>compounds when exposed to water and other elements, is released en
>>mass from coke producing facilities into the atmosphere to become part
>>of the "acid rain" that falls to the earth. 
>
>What is the concentration of CN- in rainwater?  Which coke facilities
>released HCN into the air rather than condensing it?  Where is the
>nearest coke refinery to A-B?

	The nearest coke factory could be in the Antarctic and still have
some of its output end up in Auschwitz. We don't have to know where
the "nearest" coke producing plant is in relation to the site of
investigation. Nevertheless we can accept that there were and are
plenty within hundreds of miles.
	Do I know what the "concentrations of CN- in rainwater" are? No,
but I have been inquiring about it. What we are all familiar with is
the term "acid rain". From this we can accept it means rain water that
contains compounds in solution that originated from industrial sources
or other man made source. 

>>This process of massively
>>converting coal into coke had been taking place for decades preceding
>>WWII and after. Billions of tons of coal have been converted. 
>>
>>	The amounts found at any "Creams" at Auschwitz today are
>>incredibly minute. Only a few micro grams per kilogram from samples
>>taken from any "Cremas". 
>
>First of all, you don't understand what the concentrations they refer to
>mean.  Secondly, you have no idea whether that's a small amount or a
>large amount.

	Random House Dictionary: "microgram; a unit of mass or weight
equal to one millionth of a gram".

	The Crackow study says concentrations from 0 to 500 micrograms
per kilogram. A kilogram is 1000 grams. One thousand grams times one
million micrograms = 1,000,000,000 micrograms. 

	This would come out to 0 to 500 parts per 1,000,000,000, by
weight.

>If HCN is so ubiquitous, why was it not detected in locations other than
>where zyklon-B was used?

	I believe the study says under "Table IV" that traces were found
in "Dwelling quarters next to cobbler shop and disinfection chambers".

	Relative high concentrations were found in the "bath house", not
including those cited as coming from the "blue stains".

	
	Regardless of what Mr.reen puts forth here we are left only with
the Crackow study's "Final Remarks" which we can take to mean 'summary
conclusion' which is simply:

"Final Remarks"

"The  present study shows that in spite of the passage of a
considerable period of time (over 45 years) in the walls of
the facilities which once were in contact with hydrogen
cyanide the vestigial amounts of the combinations of this
constituent of Zyklon B have been preserved. This is also
true of the ruins of the former gas chambers. The cyanide
compounds occur in the building materials only locally, in
the places where the conditions arose for their formation
and persistence for such a long time."

	As to the concentrations found in the "chambers", they are from 0
to some other number, which shows the localized nature of those traces
found, which the study made comment on but made no attempt on
concluding why. All we have to do to understand what is going on is to
take note of how precipitous solutions ooze from specific areas in
rock formations, caves, masonry bridges, tunnels and foundations of
buildings.

  	
 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:42 PDT 1996
Article: 51585 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:12:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 13
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>	The record shows no such thing you lying asshole.

	Poor Mr.Edeiken. He's all uptight. Veins pulsating in his neck.
Legs jerking up and down. Foot wagging to and fro. Hair sticking out.
Foaming at the mouth. Wrenching his garments. Ears flapping back and
forth. Arms flailing around. Head shaking. Sweat dripping down. Fist
clenched. Banging on his keyboard. Hugging hiself. 
	Not calmly sitting. Not at ease. Not a comfortable puppy. Not at
peace within hiself. Only at "shalom" with hiself.

	"No such thing" Mr.Edeiken? Whatzat, "no such thing"?


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:43 PDT 1996
Article: 51586 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:13:59 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Marty Kelley  wrote:
>I agree--reading Tom Moran's writing will DEFINITELY give you a clear idea
>of the difference between logic and illogic.  Though not necessarily the
>impression that Mr. Moran may hope for.  You might begin by looking at a
>couple of documents that address the history of Mr. Moran's intellectual
>dishonesty (or simple denseness): "Tom Moran and the Menorah" and "Tom
>Moran's Lies about _Schindler's List_".  They are archived at:
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/>

>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)

	Okay Mr.iznogod, there you have your first dose from those who
insist on all things Holocaust.

	Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
referrence in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
(responses to main articles) which they omit.

	These are recent posts by Moran currently listed under "Substance
and Hot Air":

	
"How soon is soon"

"'Just ask for Rachelle'"

"'Coming to a newsgroup near you'"

"Nizkor's code of responding"

"The Best of Nizkor"

"'I will ... this weekend'"

"McVay, down by the school yard"

"The cultured McVay"

"Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt"

"Treblinka, there, gone, there again"

"Nizkor/JDL ... against evil Christians"

"Boys in the Sand"

"Boys in the Sand II"

Take a look there and then take notice of the responses.

For further introductory material on the Holocaust, check out "What
Nizkor Excludes from it's dossier on Moran".

	Since Nizkor claims to carry all of of Moran's stuff, maybe
Mr.Kelley can supply a URL for this since he seems to agree with most
of Moran's posts.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:44 PDT 1996
Article: 51587 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:14:18 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <31f0cd91.525577@news.pacificnet.net>
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Alec Grynspan  wrote:

>tom moran wrote:
>
>> This way you will get an instant lesson in the difference in material
>> that doesn't insult your sense of intelligence and stuff that does.
>
>Agreed!
>
>If he wants to have his intelligence insulted, you're an excellent
>choice.
>
>On the other hand one could bother to check out the facts first - in
>which case you're still an excellent choice. For comic relief.
>
>>         Moran will give you straight foward material and the responses
>> will ... Well just follow along and you will see.
>
>Straight out of fiction, perhaps. Your material gets shot down so easily
>that you belong here - as an example of what antisemitism does to the
>brain.
>
>Worse than formaldehyde into the jugular!

	Here, "iznogod", an example of what you will be seeing.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:44 PDT 1996
Article: 51588 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:14:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <31f0cd9e.538429@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <31ee4087.2594986@news.pacificnet.net> <18JUL199618290059@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ef8833.1759687@news.pacificnet.net> <4sorvu$c5o@access5.digex.net>
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <31ef8833.1759687@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>    I have no idea what you are rambling on about.  Methinks you are a
>>>    loon.
>>
>>	"Me" - "thinks"?
>
>    Yes, Tommy.  It's a word Shakespeare used.
>
>    You know who Shakespeare is, don't you?  The guy who didn't write,
>"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and
>remove all doubt?"
>
>    You really should take that advice, Tommy.
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

	Here you go "iznogod", another example.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:45 PDT 1996
Article: 51589 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just a few documented Moran lies
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:14:47 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 120
Message-ID: <31f0cda8.548535@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net> <31ed03f6.6340047@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199620583830@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ef83ed.665471@news.pacificnet.net> <4soj8i$5p2@access5.digex.net>
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <31ef83ed.665471@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>	Anyway, here is a list of Moran's methods for revealing lies,
>>contempt, corruption, baby talk, inconsistancies, goose stepping, etc.
>
>    Baby talk?  You mean like Tommy Moran's "wee-wee" fixation of a few
>months back?
>
>    See for example:
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=10202467&search=thread
>&threaded=1&NTL=1&server=dnserver.db96q1
>
>
>>Moran's methods posted directly to alt.revisionism in lieu of just
>>stating he has done so.
>
>    Moran cuts things out of context, too.  That's dishonest and lacks
>integrity, as Mr. Giwer will be happy to tell you.
>
>    But all Moran has done here is give names of threads.  How does 
>anyone know whether the thread proves little Tommy's claims if it is no
>longer available on their server?
>
>
>[snip]
>
>>"Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt"
>
>    Except that this really proved that it was little Tommy who was was
>wacky and corrupt, as it turned out that he just didn't understand that
>the "ref" was a separate thing from the file itself.  He kept clicking on
>the "ref" and got (surprise) the bibliographic reference from which the
>scanned image came. 
>
>    Yet little Tommy still insists that this article proves something
>about Nizkor, instead of proving something about Tom Moran.
>
>    See:
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3c4sbilo$o70@
>access5.digex.net%3e&server=dnserver.db96q3
>
>
>>	Maybe Mr.Mittleman will post his stuff instead of just claiming,
>>boasting, alleging and asserting he has.
>
>    Of course little Tommy has seen these many times before.  He just lies
>and pretends he hasn't.
>
>    If not otherwise specified, URLs referenced below are under: 
>
>    http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/
>
>
>    How about little Tommy's insistence that Schindler's List was a flop?
>
>    See: moran-schindler-faq
>
>
>    How about little Tommy's claim that Israel is not big enough to fit
>200,000,000 trees?  (He got his math very, very wrong.)
>
>    See:
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=5807219&server=dnserver.db96q1
>
>
>    How about little Tommy's claim that a Jewish group tried to get the
>menorah declared a secular symbol?  Turns out that the group which made
>that argument was the KKK.
>
>    See: menora-faq
>
>
>    How about little Tommy's lies about the Dead Sea Scrolls?
>
>    See:
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3c31a07671.3260787@
>news.pacificnet.net%3e%232/2&server=dnserver.dbapr
>
>    Also see:
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=2010843&server=dnserver.db96q3    
>
>
>    How about little Tommy's claim that Deborah Lipstadt said that the
>tears of the survivors should be sufficient proof?
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3cPine.A32.3.91.96030
>7094528.105581D-100000@nevis.u.arizona.edu%3e&server=dnserver.db96q1
>    
>
>    How about little Tommy challenging Yale Edeiken to prove to courtroom
>standards that Tommy was an antisemite, then running away when Yale made 
>a serious proposal to do just that if Tommy would pay the costs if Yale 
>succeeded?  Of course little Tommy the coward ran away, and little Tommy 
>the liar pretends he was never answered.
>
>    See: arbitration
>
>
>    This is just a sample.
>
>    Maybe little Tommy will stop lying and pretending these have not been 
>posted many, many times before.
>
>    Nah.  Little Tommy is a liar.  The documented proof listed above can
>be found by anyone who knows how to use a Web browser.  (In other words,
>not Tom Moran.)
>
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Here you go "iznogod". Notice the subject and the contents of the lead
post here and notice what this person has to say.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:46 PDT 1996
Article: 51590 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:14:57 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <31f0cdb9.565343@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ea4f08.4551909@news.pacificnet.net> <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <31eb899f.167191@news.pacificnet.net> <4sglj9$1u1@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4sp2vh$5gv@arl-news-svc-4.compuserve.com>
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100644.317@compuserve.com (Miloslav Bilik) wrote:

>rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:
>
>>>>The Crackow team has demonstrated that HCN was present above
>>>>background levels.  Deniers have no explanation for the presence of HCN
>>>>in a facility built after the typhoid epidemic.
>>>
>>>	No "HCN" was found at all. Only cyanide compounds, right
>>>Mr.Green?
>
>>The samples were in solution, Mr. Moran.  What is the pKa of HCN?
>
>Let's me recall to Mr Moran that the **ion** CN- is very toxic, but no
>especially H+. In forensic studies you will never find HCN as a whole.
>CN- interacts with an high affinity with Co, Cu, Co, complexing with
>it, and the result is highly deadly.
>
>>>	Cyanide compounds are found naturally. Carbon and Nitrogen are
>>>relatively common elements that have a wide range of easy combinant
>>>capablities with other elements and each other. Cyanide compounds can
>>>be found under a list of organic molecules. They can be organic
>>>constituants of life, and are in fact even produced by organic
>>>processes, such as fair amounts are found in cherry pits and Oleander
>>>leaves.
>
>Cyanide compounds found naturally ? where ? Pure HCN isn't stable
>itself and polymerizes or combines likely. We can't expect from an
>holohoaxer to understand that C and N are rarely solely combined. 
>
>Holohoaxers have a lot of pure ammonium in stock. Very easy to die
>with CN-, but too subtle to understand why it never occurs.
>
>Then the **compound** CN- is highly toxic. Since in a mind (?) of a
>holohoaxer C is very common, and N too, we are all dead for a while.
>The common vegetals with CN- aren't too common: cherry laurels aso.
>But for a holohoaxer we eat such vegetals at each lunch.
>
>>PS Get ready for an ad hominem attack form Mr. Moran rather than a
>>reasoned argument.
>
>I get.


	Maybe you should show the relevance to anything you have written
here.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:47 PDT 1996
Article: 51591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kids Stay Cozy in Gas Chambers
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:15:42 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <31f0cdd9.597529@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31e6641f.8716817@news.pacificnet.net> <4sidkb$1b6q@usenetw1.news.prodigy.com> <31ed09e3.7856691@news.pacificnet.net> <31ee3d02.57883260@news.zilker.net> <31ee38fa.661956@news.pacificnet.net> 
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote:
>
>> mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) wrote:
>> >What publication is this? I'm very curious about this claim.
>> 
>> 	The "Searchlight" - as mentioned above. I believe it is Christian
>> Science.
>
>Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!!
>
>I gather that the _Searchlight_ that the Huber-Entity refers to is a
>publication of an anti-fascist organization of the same name, but I really
>don't know much about it.  It is almost certainly NOT connected to the
>Christian Science religion--they have a publication that Mr. Moran may not
>have heard of, called the _Christian Science Monitor_.  Of course, we must
>remember that Tom Moran has a feeling that _Tikkun_ is "Jewish
>obsessed"....
>
>I wonder if Mr. Moran thinks that _The Watchtower_ is published by the US
>Forest Service for forest fire lookouts....?

	Thanks for the correction recollection, that was the one that
griped about the new version of the N.T. being edited to remove any
negative referrence to Jews. 
	The Christian Science Monitor is a gutsy little paper, which
hammers on Israel.
>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being--
>that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."
>					--Mark Twain
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:47 PDT 1996
Article: 51592 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More goofy Nizkor stuff
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:18:25 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <31f0cdf8.629056@news.pacificnet.net>
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	Moran took a couple of minutes to check out and see what Nizkor
was up to. There is always something goofy happening on Nizkor.

	Moran clicked up "HWEB" to see what they had under there, having
not checked in months.

	Moran sees "Names" and clicks on it.

	Moran sees a row of boxed in letters - "A, B, C" etc.

	Moran clicks "M"

	"Moran" comes up below "McCarthy" and "McVay" and some other
name. 

	Moran clicks "Moran".

	Moran sees "Arbitration offers Mr.Moran can't read".

	Moran, when he stops laughing, clicks up "index".

	Moran sees big headline repeating the "...can't read" thing.

	Moran runs and gets himself a bag of popcorn, then hurries back.

	Moran sees the sub line, "Demands for Proof, & Responses"

	Moran sees below this, "'I demand the evidence'" and "'Born
without a back bone'".

	Moran sits back in his chair gobbling up the popcorn.

	Moran clicks up the first one, "'I demand the evidence'". It's
some post by a Mr.Stein. This one goes back a number of months. He's
rambling on about some trial he is going to have to prove Moran is
"anti-Semitic". Moran recalled the event and spits out the popcorn so
he won't gag on it. Mr.Stein never did present a case.

	Moran's memory really starts to click in when he clicks up the
second one, "Born without a backbone". This one was by a Mr.Edeiken
who interjected, into the announcement of the never-to-be trial of
Moran by Mr.Stein, that Moran should go down and turn himself in to
some "arbitration" court for his "anti-Semitism".

	Moran recognized that Mr.Edeiken's proposal is ass backwards.
Moran realized if someone charges someone else with a charge, as
"anti-Semitism" say, they should make the move, not the other way
around, and this is what he told Mr.Edeiken at the time. Moran
challenged Mr.Edeiken to file the charge and Mr.Edeiken said Moran was
a coward for not turning himself in and filing the charge against
himself.

	Evidently this is where the Nizkor sub-title "Born without a
backbone" comes in.

	
	Yup. Something goofy on every click in Nizkor.		   


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:48 PDT 1996
Article: 51594 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No historian has ever
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:23:38 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <31f0cf59.982168@news.pacificnet.net>
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

>	No holocaust historian has ever maintained that there were 4 million
>killed at Auschwitz.
>
>	Therefore there were no holocaust historians before 1991.  
>
>	And as we know that includes the curator of A-B.  
>
	Interesting logic. It seems to follow, though there might be a
couple out of the score that didn't agree. These are the ones the
Holocaust dedicated will cite to discredit you Giwer.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:48 PDT 1996
Article: 51595 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:15:19 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <31f0cdc4.577042@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4seelj$ff@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <4shh5p$42d@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31ed04d0.6558154@news.pacificnet.net> <31ef84db.903406@news.pacificnet.net> <4solbh$2tr@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
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rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <31ef84db.903406@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>
>>	Mr.Green constantly harps on "control" samples taken from
>>barracks that never were fumigated. Okay. No CN compounds found. The
>>samples were taken from inside, which are protected from the rain,
>>which is a solution of many compounds, more so than pure water, and
>>the footings and rubble of any "cremas" would have been exposed. A
>>real control on the tests would have been to take samples from local
>>ground and measure that against any levels from the remains of any
>>"cremas". Mr.Green has never, in all the times he has mustered the
>>"control" samples from the barracks, related how they would be
>>relevant to any conclusion. 
>
>Mr. Moran has developed a hypothesis that rain is the source of cyanides
>found _inside_ the ruins of the gas chambers.  Yet, he cannot explain
>why cyanides were not found anywhere other than where they are known to
>have been used.  He cannot explain why the rain would contain cyanides
>as he has not identified a source.  He has not told us what the
>concentration of cyanides in the rain at A-B is.  In other words, he is
>making a hypothesis based on nothing.
>
>Regards,
>
	Okay, in this thread we have righteous dose of what Mr.Green has
to say and what Moran has to say. Anything from here on out will be
repeats.

>Rich Green
>
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7

	Interesting advice. Seeing how we are in deep doo doo at this
time globally. Some wisdom from the past is good, some lessons are
what not to do.

	Deuteronomy? Isn't that one of the books that glorifies the
Hebrew slaughter of men, women and child - "young and old, none
remaining"?


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:49 PDT 1996
Article: 51598 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:30:20 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <31f0d127.1443758@news.pacificnet.net>
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31ef851c.968327@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>         Incredibly poetic. Moran posts "Substance and Hot Air" which
>> summarizes and shows the difference between submitting the evidence
>> instead of referring to alleged evidence. Moran posted the
>> "Substance", and a whole bunch of people sign on to post examples of
>> the "Hot Air".
>
>Incredibly pathetic you mean. Moran, that you must resort to stroking your
>ego, due to the deafening silence in contempt of your lame-brained rantings,
>in such a boorish and self-promoting manner is laughable in the extreme.
>
>Your (sick) ego knows no bounds. Neither does your chutzpah.  
>
>Mark

	Thanks for the additional example that confirms the article.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
>
>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51599 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mr.Kelley - down by the school yard
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:15:47 GMT
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	"Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!!"


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51601 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:48:26 GMT
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Lines: 18
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Hilary 7/20/96

Nice try Gord! But as you can see from the twit's response, Moran is
simply not among the educable.  As usual, he has latched onto one of
the "theories" generated by his keyboard and is proceeding to bolster
it with his customary inanities - so that he can regale us at some
point with another "Moranic lie"[tm] generated by his handy-dandy
"Spirit 'n Paste Device"[tm].

hro

=======================
Hilary Ostrov
e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 09:15:51 PDT 1996
Article: 51619 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No more M E N O R A H?
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 14:35:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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	      "Court Opposes Menorah in Beverly Hills"
                     L.A. Times, 7/20/96

"Federal appeals judges 
say the city showed 
favoritism by allowing a 
Jewish groups display in
 park each year."

	"A federal appeals court in San Francisco ruled unanimously
Friday that the city of Beverly Hills violated the Constitution by
allowing an Orthodox Jewish organization to place a menorah in city
park at Hanukkah every year while prohibiting other groups from
erecting symbolic displays in the park". (1)

	"At Hanukkah, Chabad has organized ceremonies centered around the
menorah, including ritual lighting ... and singing traditional Jewish
prayers." (2)

	"Beverly Hills City Council members, many of which are Jewish,
have participated." (3)

	"Ironically, the suit challenging the city's action was filed by
the American Jewish Congress and ... the Anti-Defamation League ... a
Jewish civil rights organization. Those organizations have taken a
stance against public displays for years and have battled Chabad in
courts on the issue." (4)

	"'I think this is a pretty easy case', said UC Berkeley law
professor Jesse Choper...
	Choper said that in recent years the U.S. Supreme Court has moved
in the direction of permitting religious symbols to be displayed as
long as equal access is granted.
	For example, he noted that in 1989 the Supreme Court permitted an
18 foot menorah to be displayed next to a Christmas tree in front of
the Pittsburgh City Hall. But in the same decision, the high court
ruled that the Constitution did not permit Allegheny County,
Pennsylvania to display a nativity scene in its court house." (5)

	"Last year, the Supreme Court ruled that the Klu Klux Klan had a
right to erect a cross in a civic square in Columbus Ohio, after
Chabad had been allowed to display a menorah in the same square." (6)


	After quoting a number of Jews making confusing comment on legal
issues that might rival the methods used in the Israeli/Palestinian
Peace Accord, as to complexity, the article winds up:

	"In a 1992 case, the city of Grand Rapids, Mich., acknowledged in
a court hearing that if it were going to permit erection of a menorah,
it also would have to permit unpopular displays, possibly including a
swastika." (7) 
                          ====================

Moran had at one time posted a comment on the nationwide Jewish
conspiracy to have the menorah ruled as the only legal religious
display to be permitted in public lands.

	For this, the Holocaust obsessed have jumped all over Moran,
resurrecting it every time Moran posts something that they can't seem
to muster the chutzpah for.

	The beef is now at this time posted under "Tom Moran: A Chronical
of Lies" posted by McVay from Marty Kelley's treatse in Nizkor files.
They can supply the group with any URLs. 

	The "(no.s)" by each paragraphed quote refer to following
commentary.

(1)   Moran cited a number of cases, including the fact that the whole
menorah yes, cross no movement started in the predominantly Jewish
city of Beverly Hills. He mentioned the park as the place that was the
center of controversy. He cited that the menorah was allowed while the
Cross was banned. This is what the passage is referring to with it's
"while prohibiting other groups from erecting symbolic displays in the
park". The dates cited are "1986". From this date on is when the
nationwide movement by Jewish organizations began to have the menorah
made okay while having the cross banned. 

(2)	Shows that the menorah is in fact a religious symbol, contrary to
the machinations by these Jewish groups in trying to finagle that the
menorah is a "secular" symbol, whereas the cross is a religious symbol
in order to support their conspiracy.

(3)	Supports Moran's original statement that it was with the
participation of the Jewish council members and that it was a Jewish
thing.	

(4)	"Ironically, the suit challenging the city's action was filed by
the American Jewish Congress and ... the Anti-Defamation League ... a
Jewish civil rights organization. Those organizations have taken a
stance against public displays for years and have battled Chabad in
courts on the issue"  is nothing more than propaganda to make it look
like the Jews are the ones who are the saviors of the day for justice,
when in fact it is they who were behind all of the intrigues that took
place across the country, their members being the ones to pushy push
for the display of the menorah while challenging the display of the
cross and eventually the Christmas tree also. The Times article is
written by a Henry Weinstein.

(5)	"For example, he (Choper) noted that in 1989 the Supreme Court
permitted an 18 foot menorah to be displayed next to a Christmas tree
in front of the Pittsburgh City Hall. But in the same decision, the
high court ruled that the Constitution did not permit Allegheny
County, Pennsylvania to display a nativity scene in its court house." 
	This passage mentions cases in Pennsylvania, which Moran had also
cited. It also shows how the process took on a pro-menorah/anti-cross
trend which Moran claimed it did. The Allegheny episode reported on in
the Philadelphia Inquirer was cited as having a town official state
they didn't want the controversy used "for political motives"
evidently recognizing it as a Jewish conspiracy to impose a Jewish
presence on the predominantly golem culture.  

(6)	"Last year, the Supreme Court ruled that the Klu Klux Klan had a
right to erect a cross in a civic square in Columbus Ohio, after
Chabad had been allowed to display a menorah in the same square." (6)
	This passage addresses the center of the alt.revisionism
Moran/Nizkor/Marty Kelley controversy. What they didn't and don't
include in their continuous posting of their side of the story,
omitting Moran's side, is that the whole thing revolved around the
Jewish, menorah yes, cross no movement.
	This is the hub of Mr.Edeiken's continuous claims that Moran said
the "KKKK" is a Jewish organization. Perhaps Mr.Edeiken has mustered
it up 50 times, and no doubt, and hopefully, he will continue with
this obsession.
	This is the same case is where it was argued that the menorah was
"beyond religion".
 
(7) 	"In a 1992 case, the city of Grand Rapids, Mich., acknowledged in
a court hearing that if it were going to permit erection of a menorah,
it also would have to permit unpopular displays, possibly including a
swastika." (7) 
	This passage shows further the extent of how the menorah yes,
cross no movement has become a nationwide campaign.

	Other areas reported to have had problems with the Jews
condemning the cross while elevating the magnificance of the menorah
are Santa Monica, Ca. and Florida.

	One case reported on was one in New Hampshire, where a Jewish
girl walked up to a group of students singing Christmas carols in the
hallway of a high school and demanded they stop singing. The school
was reported to have 2,500 goyems and 15 Jews. 		    	 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 12:21:44 PDT 1996
Article: 51646 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Exploiting Atlanta Olympics for Zionism - first report
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 15:21:14 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 48
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:51646 alt.conspiracy:68830

	
	         "Olympics Revive Memories of Munich"
                      L.A.Times, 7/20/96

"Relatives of those
killed in 1972 terrorist
attack come to Atlanta 
seeking some remembrance
of the tragedy."

	"Atlanta -- For most of the 2 million people pouring into Atlanta
for the Centennial Olympic Games, these are exciting times. Not for
Mimi Weinberg.
	... Her husband, Muni, was killed by Arab terrorists ...
	In the wake of the bombings at the New York's World Trade Center
and the Oklahoma City federal building -- and the crash this week of
TWA Flight 800 ...
	It isn't likely that anyone, in such an atmosphere, will forget
how suddenly elation can turn to horror. But if they do, Weinberg and
other family members are here to remind them.
	'I want America and I want Europe to know that what happened to
me can happen to you ... We must never forget'.
	....
	Mimi Weinberg said she knows that the Olympics, for most people,
are a time of celebration and joy, 'Wee don't want to destroy that,
.. We just want one minute, just two seconds, to remember what
happened'.

	The delegation, which is sponsored by the Isreali Olympic
Committee, said they had been promised by Olympic officials that a
moment of silence would be observed during Friday nights opening
ceremonies to remember the Israelis who died.
	'Then they said they'd changed their minds' Guri Weinberg said,
'They didn't give a reason'.
	Bob Brennan, spokesman for the Atlanta Committee ... said the
possibility of a moment of silence was never discussed.
	'That's not true' he said of the Weinbergs' allegation.
	...
	The family members blame it on politics. 'We don't want to talk
politics' said Romano, who lives in Israel, 'All we want is
recognition for what happened. Nobody cares'.
	Their only hope for recognition, she said, was that NBC might
train their cameras on them for a moment in the stands during the
ceremonies.

	A few months ago it was reported in the L.A.Times how a
delegation from Israel with Jewish children wounded in terrorist
attacks went to Oklahoma City to exploit that disaster.    	   


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 16:49:50 PDT 1996
Article: 51700 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:33:29 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>	Now this is a toughy to figure out. First I'll take note you are now
>>saying it was posted, here, - "several times". "Several times"? Alright.
>>	Now you also say in addition to this several times, that if I trashed it
>>that would be my problem. You wouldn't know why I would have missed it
>>being posted out "here", seeing how you posted it "several times", do you? 
>
>Check it out, Moron.  You have been told where to find it.  Maybe it's
>hiding behind one of the 200,000,000 trees in Israel.

	I take it you know where the alleged article is, since your out
here defending Mr.Edeiken's claims. Now show your stuff. Try to stay
on topic.


>--
>Gord McFee
>
>
>
>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331
>
>                                   



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 17:04:39 PDT 1996
Article: 51704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:37:21 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <31f0d279.1781602@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <31ef83ba.614171@news.pacificnet.net> <19JUL199619002893@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>    No I can't.  I don't have any access to DejaNews from my hotel room
>    here in Georgia.  If this is still an issue when I get home I will take
>    a look on DejaNews.

	Mr.Mittleman is in his hotel room. He can monitor and post on
Newsgroups, but he can't check Deja News. "when I get home I will".
Now that sounds like a pretty good title for a post.
>
>>	My guess would be he will resort to some unsubstantiated evasive
>>diversion.
>
>    Unsubstantiated!?!   What?   Are you angling for me to send you some
>    Olypics shlock or something?   I have an "I saw the Olympic flame"
>    sticker, does that count?  :>
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 21:46:08 PDT 1996
Article: 51744 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:46:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <31f0d4c3.2367981@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


Hilary 7/20/96
	
One wonders why Ehrlich prefers to make pronouncements based on his
admitted ignorance than to inform himself before engaging in a
discussion.  Ah, I see the "economic" justification for murder - just
like all the other totalitarian regimes.  Would Ehrlich have us
believe that the Nazis weren't so bad after all - except that (as he
told us elsewhere) they murdered their co-nationals?  Will we be given
a lesson on "class" next time Ehrlich is in ?


>>=======================
>>Hilary Ostrov
>>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/
>>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 20 23:22:46 PDT 1996
Article: 51761 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:14:07 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <31f0cd8a.518766@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ef84d2.894783@news.pacificnet.net> <4sobsb$skk@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  	Thanks for confirming my previous conclusions that nothing has
>>  been offered as yet to undo the main article.
>
>	You ovberlook the point that there was nothing in the "main article" other 
>than some unsubstantiated drivel that would nauseate any decent person.
>
>	--YFE

	Thanks for confirming my previous conclusions that nothing has
 been offered as yet to undo the main article.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 13:39:06 PDT 1996
Article: 51855 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: TREBLINKA, there, gone, there again
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 15:17:15 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <31ed03f6.6340047@news.pacificnet.net>
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31eb8984.140608@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>> 
>>	Seems every click in Nizkor brings you to a loony toon.
>
>    You must be using their "mirror" site.
>
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================

	Poor Mr.Mittleman. Here we have him commenting on the thread post
and he omits commenting on the main article. And to think, he is now
engaged in another debate under "I will ... this weekend" where he
states "If you lie by omission, you are no better than you claim he
is."
	Poor Mr.Mittleman, he's so insufficient, weak, self debasing.
Such a hypocrit. Ethnocentrically insane. A sick, sick puppy.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 17:07:44 PDT 1996
Article: 51892 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:29:24 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <31f230a7.2954965@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ef83ba.614171@news.pacificnet.net> <4sobfn$sg4@news.enter.net> <31f0cd46.450439@news.pacificnet.net> <4ss37g$77o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31f0cd46.450439@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) said:
>
>>
>>yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>>	The record shows no such thing you lying asshole.
>
>>	Poor Mr.Edeiken. He's all uptight. Veins pulsating in his neck. Legs
>>jerking up and down. Foot wagging to and fro. Hair sticking out. Foaming
>>at the mouth. Wrenching his garments. Ears flapping back and forth. Arms
>>flailing around. Head shaking. Sweat dripping down. Fist clenched. Banging
>>on his keyboard. Hugging hiself. 
>>	Not calmly sitting. Not at ease. Not a comfortable puppy. Not at peace
>>within hiself. Only at "shalom" with hiself.
>
>BTW, Moron, "hiself" is spelled wrong, even if it was a word.
>
>Please explain how one "wrenches" his clothes.
>
>Please explain why you are so stupid, and are unable to use DejaNews.
>
>
>--
>Gord McFee

	7/19/96 Mr."McFee" wrote, "Check it out, Moron.  You have been
told where to find it."

	Moran came back and ask, 
	"I take it you know where the alleged article is, since your out
here defending Mr.Edeiken's claims. Now show your stuff. Try to stay
on topic."

	Now here is Mr."McFee" with something else. 


                                     



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 17:07:45 PDT 1996
Article: 51893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:29:08 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <31f230a3.2951175@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ee3ea9.2116919@news.pacificnet.net> <4smm96$g25@news.enter.net> <31ef84ad.857104@news.pacificnet.net> <4ss37a$76s@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31ef84ad.857104@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) said:
>
>The usual moronic stupidity.
>
>What's the game here?  Is Giwer "incapaciated" and it's your turn to spam
>the newsgroup?

>Gord McFee

	"Spam"? What is that? And where is that?
                     ==================


	This is a previous post from a couple of days ago, from yourself.

>Check it out, Moron.  You have been told where to find it.  Maybe it's
>hiding behind one of the 200,000,000 trees in Israel.
>--
>Gord McFee
>
	I take it you know where the alleged article is, since your out
here defending Mr.Edeiken's claims. Now show your stuff. Try to stay
on topic.


>
>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331
>
>      



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 17:07:45 PDT 1996
Article: 51900 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Moran finds Mr. Edeiken's e-mail
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:30:13 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <31f230bc.2976605@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-7.pacificnet.net
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	A terrible thing. Moran on 7/15/96 posted to alt.revisionism "I
will ... this weekend". This was a recap of how Mr.Edeiken had claimed
he had lost 160 relatives in the Holocaust. Moran doubted it and
challenged Mr.Edeiken to come forth with the proof. Mr.Edeiken
blustered about until he blurted out he would send the proof via
e-mail. He didn't say why he wouldn't post it out here, since he
stated it on this format.

	Eventually a couple of months down the road, Moran called him on
his claim under the posting "'I will ... this weekend'" pointing out
that Mr.Edeiken never came back with the evidence to show he wasn't
lying. Mr.Edeiken immediately came forth to claim he had sent the
e-mail. During the next number of interchanges, Moran ask him to post
the alleged e-mail. He said he already did. Moran ask him "Wherzat?".
Mr.Edeiken said he posted it "here", meaning on alt.revisionism. Moran
ask, "Wherzat?". Mr.Edeiken said he saw it on Deja News, the website
that supplies all the history of the newsgroups. Moran ask "Wherzat,
exactly?". Mr.Edeiken stated its out there, that he had "Just checked
and it was there". Moran tried to pin him down for the exact name of
the article it was under and the message I.D. number. Mr.Edeiken said
it was there, if Moran was too stupid to find it, it was his problem.
After going around with this for a few more times, Mr.Mittleman popped
in to say he say it too. He said Mr.Edeiken had posted the e-mail that
it stated that Mr.Edeiken had admitted an "retraction". 
	Moran being a honest type of character, decided he better check
out the whole of Deja News to see if maybe he couldn't be mistaken.
Eventually Moran found it. Indeed it is there. The full e-mail
contents from Mr.Edeiken to Moran is here and now given.
(This is a cut n paste job, so any typos are Mr.Edeiken's.)

   "Rear Lil' Tommy
	You ass pole. You god damn anti-Semitic crap. I'm going to give
you this retraction to my claim, duh, that I said I have 160 relatives
killed in the Holocaust. You lying sack of shit. The ony reason I is
retracting this is so I don't have to supply any the information. I
know you Lil Tomy are a lying coward so I don't wan;t you to make a
big sink about this on alt.decisionism, so I won't have to keep
telling you how you are a lyink pack of shit. D,ont take this
retraction as any kind of admission tha;t it's not so that I lost 1600
relaitives in the Holocause. You lying cowardly crap."

YFE

	So here we can see that Mr.Edeiken did send an e-mail to Moran
and that Moran was mistaken to question Mr.Edeiken's honesty. 

Posted and e-mailed to Mr.Edeiken and Mr.Mittleman.   


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 18:32:26 PDT 1996
Article: 78809 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31f22646.298242@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31f22646.298242@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:28:41 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <31f23086.2922174@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-7.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 18:36:06 PDT 1996
Article: 51910 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!sdd.hp.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:09:08 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <31ecf402.2256648@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ec23d7.1909797@news.pacificnet.net> <4shika$9s9@news.enter.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:

  
>>  	Mr.Edeiken, what was the contents of the "e-mail".

>	Why didn't you read it?

	Assuming you mean, "Why didn't you read it?", as opposed to 
'Why, didn't you read it?', the answer to your question is, going by
my general experiences in the universe, it would have been impossible.


>>  	Clarifying first that we are talking about this alleged e-mail,
>>  when did you post it(what date), under what title, and what is the
>>  article I.D. number?

>	It's been posted here several times, L'il Tommy.  If you trashed it without 
>reading it, that's your problem.

	Now this is a toughy to figure out. First I'll take note you are
now saying it was posted, here, - "several times". "Several times"?
Alright.
	Now you also say in addition to this several times, that if I
trashed it that would be my problem. You wouldn't know why I would
have missed it being posted out "here", seeing how you posted it
"several times", do you?  




From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 18:36:07 PDT 1996
Article: 51927 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:50:44 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <31f251ce.108367@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31eafe62.18662855@news.pacificnet.net> <15JUL199623572421@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31eb96da.3554086@news.pacificnet.net> <31f0d279.1781602@news.pacificnet.net> <21JUL199606433515@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-14.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31f0d279.1781602@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>dmittleman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>    No I can't.  I don't have any access to DejaNews from my hotel room
>>>    here in Georgia.  If this is still an issue when I get home I will take
>>>    a look on DejaNews.
>> 
>>	Mr.Mittleman is in his hotel room. He can monitor and post on
>>Newsgroups, but he can't check Deja News. "when I get home I will".
>
>    Yes, that was exactly the situation.  Do you doubt, in some way, that I
>    was telling the truth?  If so, please tell us more?  If not, then drop
>    the innuendo.


>    I am home now.  I looked on DejaNews.  It took me about three minutes
>    to find it.  The message ID for the article I have been referring to
>    is:  <4sb1c6$kun@news.enter.net>.  There is your cite zeyde.  Now go
>    find it for yourself.    

	Seems Mr.Mittleman was here on the 16th to report he had found
Mr.Edeiken's posted e-mail on Deja News and then sudddenly he is in
Atlantas. Evidently it sank and Mr.Mittleman was back "home now" on
the morning of the 21st.

	Evidently Mr.Mittleman went to Atlantas to be on hand for the
ceremonial grand opening of the latest Holocaust Ministry of
Intolerable Love, where the rail road tracks are mounted on the
ceiling to which even the architect said it "Didn't make sense".

	Mr.Mittleman is kind of 'confusing'. He had already said he had
found Mr.Edeiken's posted e-mail in Deja News on the 15th and here he
is saying he has just found it on the 21st.

>    And, it turns out I have been in error in using the word "retraction."   
>    Yale actually said, "... I wrote L'il Tommy an e-mail withdrawing my   
>    offer until such time as he was in my proximity so that a proper   
>    response to his "fun" could be made." 

	Poor Mr.Mittleman, first he puts his good ethnobuddy on the spot
by saying his good buddy posted a "retraction" to his claim he lost
16,000 relatives in the Holocaust, and now here he is goading his good
buddy into combat with Moran.

	Poor Mr.Mittleman and Mr.Edeiken. They are having a tag team
match against Moran and they both end up in the ring, bouncing off the
ropes and meeting head to head in the center - thwonk.


> So I should be retracting this message.  Sorry.

>                  daniel david mittleman
                          
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 21:09:27 PDT 1996
Article: 51961 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 19:05:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 192
Message-ID: <31f27f60.11773942@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm10-7.pacificnet.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


		Behold the lie, tell your friends.

	For those who are new to investigating whether or not the
Holocaust story is true I present you with this simple introductory
sequence of material. None of it is revisionist, meaning none of it
comes from those who deny the greater part of this Holocaust story. It
is all based on what the pushers of the story give themselves.

	A few years ago a major revision to the story was announced.
After much crying and charging of "anti-Semitism" and "neo-Nazism"
those who are so eager and dedicated to perpetuating the story have
had to accept it. The gigantic revision was the reduction of the
previously claimed number of 4,000,000 people said to have been
exterminated at Auschwitz down to the currently accepted claim of
1,000,000, a 3,000,000 (75%) reduction. Among those dedicated to
keeping the story at a high saturation in our every day lives is the
Simon Wiesenthal Center and here I present their words on the matter
so you can be confortable in accepting that there is a revision
process taking place to which even they have had to swallow, if not a
bit begrudgingly and as we will see, with a certain lack of grace,
style and respect for those the statement is aimed at. 

	As to the overall number of people said to have been killed at
Auschwitz and the number that was and is now said to have been Jews I
give you a extract from the Simon Wiesenthal Center.

                            --------
	
       "For years, the statistics at Auschwitz-Birkenau had been put
at well over 3 million.* Recently, however, a memorial plaque at the
former death camp estimates Jewish loses closer to 1 million.
Shouldn't the new figures imply that Jewish losses for the Holocaust
are much lower than previously thought?"

*("well over" meaning 4 million)

	The center then goes into a paragraph about how it was an
"invention" of the communist government of Poland and the U.S.S.R.,
"to blur the uniqueness of Jewish suffering", that they "purposely
overstated the number of non-Jewish casualties at Auschwitz-Birkenau
by many times" and in order to "disguise the subterfuge" ... "the
figures for Jewish losses were inflated by nearly double, so that
their losses would still be larger than those of non-Jewish victims".
       
        Instead of trying to figure this out at this time we can just
go on to the motive behind this rather confusing logic.

	"The figure of 6 million Jewish losses during the Holocaust
has always been in line with the lower Auschwitz figures."

                             ---------

	Now recalling the Wiesenthal Center's claim that the overall
6,000,000 number of Jews never was based on a higher figure at
Auschwitz and thus is still 6,000,000, after the revision of 4,000,000
down to 1,000,000, we can review the contradictory listing below to
see if they are telling the truth or are in fact committing a
blasphemy against the truth and are insulting the reader.
	
  
   Yehuda Bauer's _A History of the Holocaust_ (c. 1982) lists the
   Auschwitz death toll as between 1.5 and 3.5 million Jews
	
   Poliakov's _Harvest of Hate_ (c. 1956) lists the total Auschwitz 
   dead at about 2,300,000.
 
   "Auschwitz" _The World Book Encyclopedia_.  Chicago: World Book,
   1980.  2,500,000

   Billig, Joseph.  _Les camps de concentration dans l'economie du
   Reich hitlerien_.  Paris: Presses universitaires de France, 1973.
   pp 101-102. 2,000,000

   Encyclopedia Judaica, Jerusalem: Keter Publishing House, 1974.  p
   855.  1,000,000 to 2,500,000

   Friedman, Filip.  _This Was Oswiecim: The Story of a Murder Camp_.
   Translated from the Yiddish original by Joseph Leftwich.  London:
   The United Jewish Relief Appeal, 1946, 14. 4,000,000 to 5,000,000

   Kamenetksy, Ihor.  _Secret Nazi Plans for Eastern Europe_.  New
   Haven: College and University Press, 1961.  p174   2,500,000

   Kogon, Eugene. _Der SS Staat_.  Berlin,  1974, 157.  3,500,000 to

   4,500,000
   
   Wellers, Georges.  "Essai de determination du nombre de morts au
   camp d'Auschwitz" _Le Monde Juif_, Oct-Dec 1 1983, 127-59, 
   1,600,000
   
   Brestrafung der Verbrecher von Auschwitz, in _Auschwitz:
   Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des Vernichtungslagers_.  Reinbek bei
   Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 211.  2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Czech, D.  "Konzentrationslager Auschwitz: Abriss der Geschichte,"
   in _Auschwitz: Geschichte und Wirklichkeit des
   Konzentrationslagers_.  Reinbek bei Hamburg: Rowolt, 1980, 42.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Dunin-Wasowicz, Krzysztof.  _Resistance in the Nazi concentration
   camps, 1933-1945_.  Warsaw: PWN-Polish Scientific Publishers, 1982,
   44. 	2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Madajczyk, Czeslaw.  _Polityka III Rzeszy w okupowanej Polsce;
   okupacja Polski, 1939-1945_.  Warsaw: Panstwowe Wydawn Naukowe,
   1970, 293-94.  2,800,000 to 4,000,000

   _Obozy hitlerowskie na ziemiach polskich 1939-1945: informator
   encyklopedyczny_.  Warsaw: Panst.  Wydaw.  Naukowe DSP, 1979, 369.
   2,500,000 to 4,000,000

   Nora Levin's "The Holocaust",  2,000,000 to 2,300,000
  
   Rabbi Dr. Moshe Weiss, The Jewish Press Friday April 5, 1991
   Yom HaShoah - Holocaust Remembrance. 3,000,000

   
                             -------

	So, even though the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims the
6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "has always been in line with
the lower figures" it is obvious that there is some recorded evidence
to show this statement to be down right false, since they clearly cite
anywhere from 2,000,000 to 3,500,000 Jews killed at Auschwitz, which
would make the 6,000,000 figure considerably lower if we used those
numbers instead of the newer currently accepted number of 1,000,000
Jews.

	This poster has over the years witnessed many times in our
daily press the figure of 4,000,000 people said to have been put to
death at Auschwitz, 3,000,000 being Jewish. 3,000,000 Jews killed at
Auschwitz is the common prevalant 'street number' held in the minds of
those who have had any experience on the subject. I would invite
anyone to do their own poll by asking friends or acquaintances what
number they have in their heads as to the number of people said to
have been put to death at Auschwitz and how many they think were Jews,
to see how wide spread the figures are.
	
	Since the Simon Wiesenthal Center is the foremost organization
involved with saturating the minds of the people with the Holocaust
story and the main sponsor of Holocaust museums we must assume they
are knowledgable of the material that has been put forth and thus are
committing a lie. 
	In lieu of the evidence we should ask: If the Simon Wiesenthal
Center claims the 6,000,000 number was never contingent on the
pre-revised number why didn't they make an attempt at setting the
record straight? 				    
	It cannot be shown that the Holocaust perpetuators were the
initiating force behind this huge revision and others, but in fact
struggled energetically to keep it from happening. It could also be
suggested that if it was not for revisionist energy the Holocaust
beneficiaries would have let the old figures stay as they were.

       	     Behold the Lie - Ask Your Friends

	How many people do you think were killed at Auschwitz?
	How many do you think were Jewish?

	The current figure is now given as 1,000,000, 900,000, 600,000
or 300,000 - take your pick. You will hear 3,000,000. Then wonder to
yourself how Simon Wiesenthal and his company of Holocaust
beneficiaries can say the 6,000,000 figure of total Jews killed "was
always in line" with the revised figures which came 45 years later.
	
	WARNING: Even though this gigantic modification to the story
has taken place and is currently accepted by the world, along with a
number of other major revisions, Holocaust revisionists still chipping
away at the credibility of the remaining story are still dubbed
"anti-Semites" and "neo-Nazis".
	
	
		

















quatchen


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 21 21:13:57 PDT 1996
Article: 36746 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: More goofy Moran stuff
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 18:14:47 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <31f26f12.7599752@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f0cdf8.629056@news.pacificnet.net> <4ssbtv$o7h@access5.digex.net> <4stmv3$6co@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <4ssbtv$o7h@access5.digex.net>, 
>mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
>
>> Say, little Tommy liar, why don't you give the URLs so people 
>> can see for themselves what's on Nizkor?
>
>L'il Tommy's rigii doesn't speak URLs.

	Now here goes McVay with his 'Where are the URLs'? This was a
post from a few months ago, summarizing Nizkor and think alike
tactic of avoiding responding, righteously documented in Deja News
under "Nizkor Invite Accepted". 
	What happens if you wont to look at something in Nizkor? You
click your way around, as they invite you to do. No URLs are available
until you click something. 
	It is the record of this thread that a click path was supplied,
much easier to access than typing in URLs. 
	The record of the thread shows also that Moran solicited Nizkor
official officials to post any URL, and that they have. Now we have to
two sides to the story.

>> Is it because you know that if they saw what was there, they'd know
>> you were lying?

>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/moran-tom/arbitration/

>>>	Yup. Something goofy on every click in Nizkor.		   

>>    Yup.  A lie in every Moran post.  Sometimes more.

>I'll keep that in mind... it might help in prioritizing the
>conversion of L'il T's articles... start with the ones with
>five lies, then work down to four lies, etc.... might be weeks
>before we get down to the cheap seats - you know, just one lie
>per article?

	Alright. This sounds like maybe Moran will be able to exploit
Nizkor as his own little website after all. This is good news.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/.
>
>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's special 
>newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately 
>ignored.

	Some continuation about some person named "Giwer" for reason.
Must be McVay's way trying to divert people away from his prior
sentences where he alleged Moran was trying to cover up by not posting
URLs when in fact he, Moran, gave the recommended Nizkor path. 

	Poor McVay. It must be painful to be in the limelight and have to
continually post idiotic things. 

	 
>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | http://www.nizkor.org
>-----------------------| Prince Myshkin's Troll Bait Sold Here
>                       |--------------------------------------
>     http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 22 02:16:34 PDT 1996
Article: 52027 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Substance and Hot Air
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 13:29:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>So when do you plan to post the evidence (as opposed to referring to
>alleged evidence) that Schindler's list was a flop?  I posted my 
>evidence that it was a hit, including the reference (from the World
>Almanac which was quoting a Variety article).  Or does repeating
>over and over "it was a flop.  Period." count as evidence?
>
>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"You don't even have a clue as to which clue you're missing." -- Miss Manners

	Your source is from the World Almanac which took it from a
Variety article, you say? Very impressive.

	Around here, in an area with a relative large Jewish population,
the movie was on the circuit for only a few weeks. I've done my own
street survey. Not many went to see it and a few recalled it not being
around very long. Nor were there any articles in the, highly
submissive to Jewish causes, L.A.Times, on rave reviews about
attendance.
	The only articles I recall seeing about attendance were a couple
making excuses for its low attendance, which blamed it on being in
black and white and it's length. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 22 14:41:48 PDT 1996
Article: 52246 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Neo/Paleo-Deholocaustolithification
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:00:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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	Neo/Paleo-Deholocaustolithification: The result of comparing
older Holocaust accounts that were once written in stone to newer
accounts that are currently written in stone.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 22 15:21:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52262 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:00:46 GMT
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	Quite often the topic of Jewish population before the war pops up
on alt.revisionism. It is important to the Holocaust story to show
there were enough Jews in Europe to be killed and add up to 6 million.
Most of the time, those in favor of the story respond to challenges by
citing German estimates on the population of Jews in Europe.
Something like, 'WHAT? What are you talking about? Look, even the
Germans estimated ...'.

	As it turns out these estimates are deeply suspect.

	"In the final solution conference of January 20, 1942, the Reich
Main Security Office offered the following population statistics for
these countries: Findland 2,300; ... Netherlands, 165,000; ...
Romania, 342,000; ... Hungary, 742,000; ... France (occupied) 165,000;
... France (unoccupied), 700,000; The total is 2,475,100. But the sum
was inflated, principally because of the gross over-estimate for
unoccupied France, by about 600,000 people."
                                                       *Raul Hilberg
	
	Lets summarize: The one number was 700,000 and the correction is
100,000. This figure of the number of Jews in France is put at 70,000
in recent referrences.
	The same list has 700,000 Jews living in Hungary before the war.
Other figures put it at 800,000 and 900,000. Since the Jewish
population of France was ten times what it is alleged to be now, we
have to consider the same ratio applies to the Hungarian 700,000,
which puts a big quink into the allegations that 200,000 to 450,000
were gassed at Auschwitz.
	Well so much for citing German estimates as proof there were
enough Jews in Europe to validify the numerical part of the story.
_________________________



	* We can thank Raul Hilberg in his demonstration of objectivety
and honesty for reporting on this 700,000 only being 100,000.
Evidentally there was just too much of one thing or not enough of
another available for world scrutiny to maintain this number of
700,000. 
	In light of this development, should we just accept this as a one
exception out of the other 15 countries mentioned or would it be
justified to take this a step further and apply this same ratio to
revise the rest, like Hungary, reported to have had 700,000 Jews.
(Pressac now claims 200 to 250 thousand Hungarian Jews were delivered
to Auschwitz instead of 450,000.) Perhaps the 700,000 reported to have
been in Hungary is more like 100,000 also, or even much less.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 22 15:56:34 PDT 1996
Article: 52275 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:50:54 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <31f3cd41.19228748@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net> <4st9c5$f8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4stnga$bp3@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
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rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <4st9c5$f8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>Ehrlich606  wrote:
>>In article <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>>moran) writes:
>>
>>>>How would Mr. Moran recommend proving that?  They were detecting
>>>>cyanides in solution, Mr. Moran!  
>>>>
>>>>The reactions:
>>>>
>>>>2H2O => OH-  +  H3O+
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>HCN.H2O => CN-  + H3O+
>>>>
>>>>will control the relation between HCN and CN- in solution no matter
>>>>which you start with n'est-ce pas?
>>>
>>>	No relevance given. Mr.Green's practice of introducing some
>>>chemical equations to give his stuff a sense of authority. 
>>>>
>>
>>Wait until Mr. Green demonstrates that potassium, nickel, and iron can
>>make a very dangerous weapon -- especially for OJ.
>
>Perhaps Mr. Ehrlich would like to explain to us how it is possible to
>differentiate between HCN and CN- ions in aqueous solution without
>taking into account these reactions?

	The only book I could find in the library that dealt with cyanide
exclusively, was one by a Connell, spelling uncertain, which focued on
explaining various methods that could be used to detect certain kinds
of cyanide compounds. It was basically written in respect to mining
operations, which use cyanide to leach metals from crushed ore.

	There are a number of ways of detecting the types and
concentrations of cyanide compounds.

	Whatever Mr.Green is proposing here, whether it be correct or
incorrect, is irrelevant. Mr.green's practice is to put these 'Hah
hah, what about this' type of thing up for consideration and yet fails
to show a relevance that was and has been solicited in this very
thread.

	    



>Regards,
>
>Rich Green
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 22 15:56:35 PDT 1996
Article: 52276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More goofy Nizkor stuff
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 18:55:57 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 132
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	                    Definitions

                     Random House Dictionary

"liar": 1. one who tells lies.

"lie": 1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive;
     2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression;
	3. the charge or accusation of lying;

"coward": 1. a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty,
pain etc.
	2. lacking courage, timid:

"Semite": 1. a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples
originating in SW Asia, among whom are the Hebrews and Arabs;
	2. a Jew;
	3. a member of any of the peoples supposedly descended from Shem.

"anti": n. 1. a person opposed to a particular practice, policy,
action etc.

"anti-": 1. a prefix from Greek meaning "against", "opposite of",
freely combining with elements of any origin and used with the
following particular meanings: "opposed", in "opposition to".

"anti-Semite": 1. a person who is hostile to Jews.

"hostile": 1. opposed in feeling, action, or character; antagonistic;
- hostile criticism (italicized example)


             "Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism"

'Anti-Zionist': Anyone who complains about Zionist practices of
shooting down children, tearing up Palestinian orchards, blowing up
their houses, taking their land, blocking medical care, blocking food
delivery, routing hundreds of thousands of civilians with bombs,
defying U.N. resolutions, holding tens of thousands of prisoners
without recourse to trial, ads in papers aimed at justifying the
practices, columns aimed at the same, letters to the editors aimed at
the same - etc.

Question. Can a true statement be "anti-Semitic"? Can making an
inferences from a true statement be "anti-Semitic"? Or, having and/or
expressing an negative attitude in words about the actions of another,
or a group, based on their own words and/or actions?

Question: Is there any other recognized wide sweeping term like
"anti-Semitism" that is used to define criticism of a person, group or
nation other than Jewish?

Is the term "anti-Semitism" an exclusive?

"accusation": 1. a charge of wrong doing. 2. the specific offense
charged. 3. an act of accusing or charging.

"bluff": v.t., 1. to mislead by feigning confidence, 2. Poker, to bet
heavily on a weak hand in order to mislead an opposing player, 3. to
mislead someone by acting boldly, - 5. a person who bluffs; bluffer.

"chutzpa": unmitigated effrontery or impudence.

"venue": 1. Law; a. the place of a crime or cause for action. b. the
county or place where the jury is gathered and the cause tried. 2. the
scene or locale of any action or event. 3. the position taken by a
person engaged in argument or debate.

"question": 1. a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to
someone in order to get information or reply.
                  ========================

Why does Mr.Edeiken insist on his charges being taken away from the
venue where he says the crime has taken place and where he constantly
charges the crime and affords the same access to making his case?
                  ========================

"fact": the quality of existing or of being real. 2. something known
to exist or to have happened.

Facts. Mr. Edeiken has repeatedly made accusations of "cowardice",
"lying" and "anti-Semitism".

He has repeatedly been ask to show where and how. 

He continually resorts to evading answering - directly.

His accusations get plenty of coverage and endorsement from the
website Nizkor that has had much accommodation in the medias as to
it's existence. 

His stuff gets feature billing in Nizkor departments.

The accusations are made as to things posted on alt.revisionism. The
format is such that it makes possible the charges to be made and the
accuser to make his case.

Moran has no problem with it. Moran does not threaten law suits. Moran
does not solicit any Internet service to ban anything said against
him. Moran has the will, courage, and the respect for freedom of
speech to argue any case in and on the venue where the accusations
take place.

Mr.Edeiken has the format of alt.revisionism to argue his case. 

Mr.Edeiken has the support of at least ten confederates who
continually come to his aid on the format.

Mr.Edeiken has the services and the support of Nizkor, the well
publicized website to perpetuate his accusations.

Mr.Edeiken has announced he has contacted an Internet server to stop
his opponents. He has presented argument justifying that all one has
to do is file a complaint with an Internet service and this is enough
for grounds to cease the service.

In spite of all this, Mr.Edeiken has refused to respond - directly -
to Moran's challenge for him to prove his case, and in lieu of this he
has called on Moran to turn himself in, take the initiative in
bringing charges against himself.

The burden of proof is on the accuser.     

	If Mr.Edeiken wants to support his accusations he will have to be
the one to initiate any proceedings, other than the venue that is at
hand where he has ample support from allies and the well funded and
publicized website of Nizkor.

	Why is this not enough for Mr.Edeiken?	  


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 22 15:56:36 PDT 1996
Article: 52277 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: HOLOCAUST OF MIND
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 19:01:07 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 559
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	Entered here you will find a number of ravings that can be taken
as racist exaggerations. We can assume these examples are only a small
fraction of the ethnocentric, blurtatious material that the Jewish
community gets involved with. This community makes up less than 2% of
the American population and yet are responsible for about 100% of the
racist ads, columns and letters that appear in our papers. You may
notice under example XVIII "What Being Jewish Means to Me" is the 15th
of those presented in the N.Y.Times. Over the last 15 years hundreds
of full, half and quarter page ads have been placed in just two
newspapers, the N.Y. and L.A. Times by Jews giving themselves rave
reviews. They seem not able to control themselves, even including
racist ego statements in Holocaust promotional books. 
	
        Since the post covers a number of examples, I would recommend
reading it a piece at a time.

                                                       Tom Moran
                           ==============


I.           - "South West Jewish Archives" -
 (Webcrawler > Jews > Southwestern Jewish Archives > Crypto-Jews)
 
	"The Bloom Southwest Jewish Archives has amassed an enormous
amount of information ..." to show that the Catholics were stupid
people and that Jews were the only ones who could read and write in
pioneer days.
	The Spanish Catholics feared the Jews because they had "special
expertise in various fields".
	Offering up the best of their "enormous" archives, we might
assume, the Blooms cite a few examples to support their apparent
motive of portraying Jews as superior, the first being a "'Mrs.O'" who
had the feeling she was Jewish, because she was raised in a Hispanic
community and her family was the only '"family who were intellectuals,
so therefore we must have been Jewish"'. "Pressed" further she said
'"Well we were the only ones who had books in our house therefore we
must have been Jewish"'.
	Another example given by the Blooms to lead us to how extensive
Jewish presence was in the Old West was from "a young man" who
remembered his grandfather carving menorahs.
	In another display of ethnocentricism and exemplifying the
genetic connection of Judaism, the Blooms quote a Denver dentist who
joined a Jewish congregation, saying he did not have to convert, "even
though his father was a church going Catholic, his mother did not want
him to go to church and told him repeatedly that she was Jewish and
therefore he was too". "My mother was the clever one in the family"
and their "...Catholic friends sneared at us". 
	Another example from the "enormous" archives was a translater
>from  the Univ. of Ariz. who had a amulet with Hebrew text and who's
mother never cooked pork.
	Still another person raised by a "Catholic" mother wrote a
response to a letter (not discused) that appeared in the The
Albuquerque Journal, and the response quoted in part by the Blooms
proclaimed, "...scratch a New Mexican and his Indian blood will flow.
Scratch a little deeper and his Jewish or Moorish blood will flow.
Scratch no deeper 'cause that's all you need to know", meaning any
other blood is not worth mentioning.
                           =============


II.               "ISRAEL IS OUR ONLY PRIORITY" 
So goes the banner heading in a 1/4 page ad in the New York Times
1/23/94, under a little prelude copy that cites " -January 27, 1994-
is the New Year of the Trees."
	"Founded in 1901, the Jewish National Fund has long been
designated as the sole agency in charge of afforestation and land
reclamation in Israel."
	"JNF has planted over 200,000,000 trees throughout Israel. JNF
also builds roads and parks; prepares land for housing, agriculture
and industry ..."  the later being that area outside of the 8000 sq.
miles of the whole of Israel we would have to eliminate when trying to
figure out how many trees per sq. yard 200,000,000 trees would come
out to.

	After a little more boasterous copy we are given a sketch of a
rolling hill vista covered with trees. I wonder what a photograph
would show?
	Whatever the real story, this ad was placed in an American
newspaper for some reason. Evidentally to let us know how ecologically
minded they are. 200,000,000 trees? 
                         ==================
 
III.	I CHRONICLES;   Hebrew historians recount the greatness of David.
He mustered up over 230,000 men.  He then slew the Philistines, taking
a thousand chariots, seven thousand horsemen and twenty thousand
footmen.  He then slew the Syrians, twenty thousand men.  David then
made war against the Ammons who had two thousand chariots and forty
thousand men, along with the Syrians(Evidentally those left over that
David didn't kill)who had forty thousand men and seven thusand
chariots, and David's forces killed them all. His empire then spanned
all the way to the Euphrates.  More awesome than Ghangis Khan, more
awesome than the Romans, more than Darius, more than Alexander the
Great, more than - well, more than anybody. 
           Of course there is no other record to show this ever
happened. In fact Biblical scholars have had to resort to confirming
anything in the Bible by looking into the records of other societies
of the time. The last biblical archeological expedition to the land
was in the sixties, according to the "Bible Almanac", and many
historians now find it difficult to accept anything in the biblical
scriptures as credible.
	According to a article in the N.Y.Times on a recent dig in
Israel, a obscure obliterated inscription was said to be the first
evidence that a David ever existed at all. Even this is said to be
questioned. At a recent symposium of biblical scholars in
Philadelphia, Penn. a number of them expressed their opinion that
there never was a David.
	Contents of the Bible shows a lot more than the above as to
exaggerated claims and suggests the Jewish propensity to exaggerate
started a long time ago.
                            =================


IV.                Dec. 13, 1995, New York Times
                  Quarter page ad by the ADL.

         	    "IN THE FACE OF HATE"

   "ADL is truly a grassroots civil rights and human relations
organization. One of the largest and most respected in the world." 
                            ===============


V.                         Raul Hilberg,
             "The Destruction of European Jews"

"On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
to speak, nonexistent'".
	Stupid Russians.
                            =================


VI.	     "The Destruction of the European Jewery"
		        Raul Hilberg	

	"On Nov.7 Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw district proposed that
the Warsaw Jews (whose number he estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated
in a ghetto, and Frank gave his immediate consent ... During the
winter, Fischer created a Resettlement Division under Waldermar Schon,
who was going to have a major role in ghetto planning ... The first
idea, in February, to locate the ghetto in the eastern bank of the
Vistula River, was turned down ... on the ground that 80 percent of
Warsaw's artisans were Jews ... and were indispensible ..."

	Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"
in relation to the Jews and the Poles in their own nation made up 20%.
Either way - stupid Poles.
	One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he would profess the
Jews have in America. 
                          ===============

                  
VII.	As to the statement, 'Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more
sense than the White Russians whose talents he claimed were for the
most part "nonexistant" in relation to the Jews.' 
                       
	Danny Mittleman, alt.rev. regular, responded to this with;

        "I guess so."	

As to the statement, 'One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he
(Hilberg) would profess the Jews have in America.' 

	Danny Mittleman responed:
    "I don't know.  I would guess it to be less than 80% for two
reasons: 
    One, for many years Jews were systematically kept out of trade
unions so less Jewish families developed traditions in specific
fields.  And two, many Jewish children in the United States go to
College and Graduate School and take on careers common at those
education levels."
	
	Which means if it wasn't for this, the Jews would be at least 80%
of the artisan story in America. Stupid Americans.
                            ================	 

VIII.    Nizkor > Shofar FTP > camps > Mauthausen > Hungary .01

	"The fate of the Jewish settlement in Hungary -- one of the
largest in Europe -- was a desolating climax to the tragic Holocaust
period. Before Hitler came to power in 1933 there were about 800,000
Jews in greater Hungary, 200,000 of then living in Budapest, where
despite an endemic anti-Semitism, they were at the forefront of
culture, scientific and economic life of the country."

Abram Sachar, "The Redemption of the Unwanted". 1983

	The figure for the number of prewar Jews in Hungary ranges from
700,000 to 900,000 - 800,000 here. The 700,000 figure is that set
forth by an estimate by the Germans, which the Jews use as an
authority to show there was a large enough Jewish population in Europe
to have been killed and add up to the 6,000,000. The same source cited
700,000 French Jews, which is currently put at 70,000 in more current
Holocaust books. Evidentally there was too much of one thing or not
enough of another to maintain the gross exaggeration for France, so we
should seriously consider any figures given in the list. 
                            ==============


VIII (a).  According to Jewish author Yehuda Bauer, in his book, "A
History of the Holocaust":
	"The growth of the American trade-union movement is due in large
measure to the leadership of it's many Jewish members."
                          ===============

IX.	"The Jews are Gods chosen people."

                            ==============

X.	- "The Jews created the one god." -

	Can you picture it? A bunch of ancient Hebrews squating around
and all of a sudden they all jump up at the same time saying, 'I got
it.'

	Actually, Akhenaten, a Pharoah of Egypt installed the concept
over Egypt a hundred years prior to the time "Exodus" is said to have
taken place.
	Also, Zoroaster was a philosopher of a one god, preceding the
first record of Hebrews.
	There are also some primitive tribes in Borneo, and the Americas
that hold to the concept.
	And then there is the most recurrent theme in the "Old Testament"
which is the writers constantly berating the Hebrews for not
adhereingto the one god and following "false idols", evidentally a
common practice among the people. 
                            ===============

	
XI.	Without any shred of proof, and nothing more than 
       ethnocentric fixations, the Jews announce:

                "CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS A JEW."

	I recall a converstion with a Jewish person not too long ago
where he said "Christopher Columbus was most likely a Jew". When I ask
him 'most likely?' he couldn't come back with anything else.
	One piece of evidence offered in the Los Angeles Times by a
ethnocentric was he "looks Jewish".  I recall seeing a similar account
offered about Shakespeare, with further evidence being that he seemed
to go easy on the character - Shylock.  
                           ====================	       

XII.	             "What price Israel"
                     Alfred M. Lilienthal

	"Here is a paradox, a most ingenious paradox, an anthroplogic
fact, many Christians may have much more Hebrew-Isrealite blood
in their veins than most of their Jewish neighbors"

	Dr. Lilienthal has for a number of years been associated with
certain publications that focus on telling the truth about Israel and
Zionism, with his attacks on Jewish activities being of the most
scathing.
	Nevertheless, having had personal communication with Dr.
Lilienthal and meeting him once at his initiative, I recognized that
he had an underlying motive. He knows the truthful analysis he puts
out about Jews and Zionism will find it's way out anyway, so he comes
out and says it too so the Jews will have someone to point to in order
to demonstrate they have the capacity for open mindedness. I
recognized Lilienthal as a "cryptic Jew" from the early stages. I
would say he associated himself with anti-Zionist parties in order to
have some influence on the intensity of the their output. Jews often
attach themselves to organizations for this reason only. The above
statement shows that he has a Jewish agenda at his core. I once heard
him, in an address to an Arab association, say they had common bonds
through Abraham, which was a clincher for me at the time, to be more
suspicious of the cryptic nature of his coming on like a anti-Zionist.

	Lets look at his own wording. I take his use of the word
"paradox" to mean the dictionary option: "a statement or proposition
seemingly self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expressing a
possible truth". This can be further confirmed by his asserting
"anthropological fact".
	Lilienthal appears almost as flaming as the Bloom's, who I
reported on above who assert that Jewish "blood" is prevalaint in
Western mans gene pool. 
	Any intermixing of "blood" would be a two way street. By putting
it the way Lilienthal and the Bloom's put it they would have us
believe that the Jewish blood would become the prevalaint factor,
displacing the traces of the others while their's becomes the ruling
gene.
	"Anthropological" refers to a empirical process, which comes
under the "scientific method". If Lilienthal and the Bloom's make
these claims, let them present the empirical path to their
consclusions. The Bloom's concept of empiricism is summarized above,
which if this was ever taken as a prime example for empirical
standards we would still be in the dark ages.

	Heres another example of empirical recogning to see if
Lilienthal, Bloom's and any other ethnocentric raving on the subject
carries any validity at all.

	The Jewish record, according to the science of archeology goes
back to maybe 1250 BC. Their only record, according to themselves is
found in their Bible which puts them at the beginning of the universe.
As far as any other record of their existence, in the early stages,
there are a couple of referrences to them made by other societies of
the time, but these are from around 600 BC.
	As far as the area of biblical narrative is concerned, there is
considerable record from other societies concerning the area, but not
about the Hebrews themselves. The area was never controlled fully by
any Hebrew people. It was always under the occupation authority of
many different and more significant civilizations. Egypt, the
Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Greeks and Romans to mention a few.
There is also the Jews own story of how they went into the land around
the time of 1250 BC, whereas archeological digs show civilization
there for thousands of years before that.
	All of these societies put settlements into the area which ended
up interbreeding with the inhabitants, the Hebrews among them. This
would be taking place over a long period. Maybe one of the only
biblical narratives that can be shown to hold any validity at all is
an account of how a few ten thousands of Hebrews were carried away to
Babylon, later allowed to return after a sweeping decree by Cyrus who
set free many from many different areas with out mentioning the Jews
in particular. When this carrying away took place it is said that the
Babylonians replaced the displaced Hebrews in Palestine, and by the
time the Hebrews returned after many decades in Babylon, intermingling
we should suppose, the Babylonians had already intergrated with the
remaining population, especially in the Sumerian sector.
	So, from this we assume that any "blood" specialization that may
have existed among the Hebrews was already diluted to a great degree
before even the invasion of the Greeks and Romans who set up colonys
of their own. Combining this with what took place over the next two
thousand years we can see that any Hebrew "blood" was so thoroughly
intermixed that it's original identity would be almost erased. 
	As to any superiority being associated with Jewish "blood" we
should also look at the record through the empirical method. If one
should look into existing history books, the index, and look up
Hebrew, Egyptian, Assyrian, Roman, Greek and a number of others, we
might find Hebrew on say, page 15, 234 - 235, whereas under the others
we might see something like Romans, page 15, 64, 108 - 119, 340 - 360.
In fact any books on the Bible would be quite boring affairs if they
didn'tinclude pictures of art and commentary of societies other than
the Hebrews. The Hebrews were not innovators in anything. No record is
there. They even, by thier own record, had to call on the
Phoenecians to build their temple.
	The Romans and the Greeks have left behind a record that makes
the Bible look like a pamphlet. The Greeks and the Romans were great
in theatre, art, literature, engineering, philosophy and other
innovations that are totally absent from the Hebrew record. 
	Even after the biblical era unto now there is no record of Hebrew
superiority. I will state now that nothing like this would be written
if it wasn't for the many boastings by the Jews themselves about their
being superior. It is a world where things are said and things are
challenged. If they think they rate any special exclusion from being
doubted or denied it only shows the degree of ethnocentric
righteousness.
	The only record of any true accomplishment associated with
Hebrewism has occured in the last century. Even here it can be shown,
using the empirical dynamics of anthropology, that any accomplishments
associated with Hebrewism is really the result of non-Hebrewism.
	Take names like Einstein, Oppenheimer and a few other European
names who are touted as Jewish whenever their names come up. They all
have a German, Italian or other western connection. Of course the
Hebrew ego will blurt out that names like Heisenberg, Shroedinger,
Plank, Galileo, Newton, and a whole slue of others came to be from the
Jewish gene. This I have witnessed personally. In this case we would
have to look at other areas the Jews have taken root, such as Romania,
Soviet Union, Hungary, other nations of the Middle East, North Africa
and in South America. Judging by the names of those who seem to be at
the head of he Jewish community, we can see a lot of German names. 
	So tracing Hebrews from the very onset of their record to now
shows that there is absolutely nothing there to show that Hebrew
"blood" prevails anywhere and that any unique benevolent qualities are
associated with it or they are inherently more "brilliant" than
goyims.
	No one is more aware, at least subliminally, than the Hebrews,
who have to resort to making boasterous announcements, no.1 in the
process of chutzpah.
	The Jews have wide record of stating they are the only group to
exist from ancient times, constantly raving about their enduring
cohesion. The Jew finds it necissary to stay together in order to ply
their way in the world. They, not having the inherent strength and
capability to go it alone have always stuck together to capitalize on
the talents and production of others. They have the most repeated
history in the world, one of constantly being the recipients of
backlash to their conspiracies to manipulate others for the Jewish
interest. They call it persecution. But if a little boy is constantly
getting into trouble, who's fault is it? Any common recognition would
have to put the ultimate responsibility on the little boy. In fact
they thrive on this history. Glorify in being persecuted, evidentally
giving them some sense of accomplishment as a people.
                           =================
                           
XIII.	Go to Tombstone Arizona. Visit Boot Hill. Follow the sign to
"Jewish Cemetary". You will come upon a low adobe wall around a 300
foot square area. In the center on a pedestal is a little pLaque that
reads something like:

	'Here lies some Jewish citizens of old Tombstone, "Friends of the
Indians".

	I know that the Jews are very avid in crawling around Washington
seeking billions for Israel, but I don't ever recall seeing them
active in bringing better times to anyone else, especially the
American Indian. In fact we could surmise that for every dollar that
goes to Israel, it is less that which could be used for the indigent
American.

	No, no. The Jews didn't go to Tombstone to reep of the gold and
silver mines, they went there out of concern for the Indians.  
                            ===================
	
XIV.	Lizard" (Lizard@dnai.com) wrote in "Re:Simon Wiesenthal Center's
*previous* internet censorship attempts" -

	"The amount of cross breeding between Jews and Christians in
Europe is such that the gene pool is hopelessly mixed as is, more
importantly the meme pool.
	Try to purge all '"Jewish influences"' from any good library of
classical literature and you'll have no books left."
	
                           =================	

XV.	About ten years ago the L.A.Times carried a little notice about a
discussion panel at UCLA by their Hillel chapter in which it was going
to be shown that American humor came from the Jews. 
	They were going to do it by showing some passages from the Old
Testiment. Looking up the one sample example noted, didn't show
anything funny.
	The topic of, no humor can be found in the Bible, is one that is
recognized and commented on by many.
                            =================

XVI.	About 5 years ago, a local newpaper carried an article written by
a Jew who interviewed another Jew about his expertise in some martial
art said to have been developed in Israel. The article went on to say
he was giving instruction to local police departments and that the
technique was "awesome" - "...even more awesome than Gracy jujitsu".
	Gracy jujitsu is an art that a Scotchman living in Brazil
developed late in the 19th Century.
	For the last few years there have been matches shown on TV that
pits one martial art against another. I believe the first one was
called "The Ultimate Challenge". Its a elimination fight down. All
forms can show up to participate.
	During that match and all subsequent matches, Gracy
representatives have won.
	The Gracys, the initial Gracy"s off spring, have offered over the
last number of years, $100,000 to anyone who can beat them.
	The Jew with the Jewish martial art form that is "more awesome
than Gracy" or any other representative of the awesome technique have
never shown up to take the challenge or to participate and show their
awesome techniques at any of the TV fight downs.
	A personal aquantance who knows the Gracys ask the Gracys if they
knew anything about this awesome Jewish technique and they never even
heard of it.
	Considering the Gracys $100,000 reward, we can see they put their
money were their mouth is, and the Jewish techniquers merely stick out
the spoon of chutzpah.  
                           =================

XVII.                   "WHAT BEING JEWISH MEANS TO ME"
  The latest to appear under this heading that appears in quarter page
ads in the N.Y.Times with regular frequency is one by Justice Ruth
Bader Ginsberg, 1/14/96.

	"There is an age-old connection between Judaism and law. For
centuries, rabbis and other Jewish scholars have studied, restudied,
and ceaslessly interpreted the Talmud. These studies have produced a
vast corpus of judicial writing. Jews have been called '"the people of
the book"', reflecting their placemnent of learning first among
cultural values.
	The Jewish tradition prized the scholarship of judges and
lawyers, and when anti-Semitic occupational restrictions were lifted,
Jews were drawn to the learned professions of the countries in which
they lived. In the U.S., law became the bulwark against the kind of
oppression Jews had endured ... Jews in large numbers became lawyers,
some eventually became judges, and the best of those jurists used law
to secure jsutice for others.
	Laws as protectors of the oppressed, the poor, the loner, is
evident in the work of my Jewish predecessors ...
	The late Supreme Court justice (and former American Jewish
Committee president) Arthur Goldberg once said, '"My concern for
justice, for peace, for enlightenment, all stem from my heritage"'. I
am fortunate to be linked to that heritage.
	Each time I visit the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, I am
reminded that Hitler's evil kingdom, his '"Holocaust Kingdom"', was a
kingdom full of laws. ..."

	Ginsberg then goes on to tell us how the German justices went
astray and then continued on with how wonderful Judaic thinking is.

	The ad is placed by The American Jewish Committee.

	"The American Jewish Committee is proud to present this message,
the fifteenth in a series, on the meaning of being Jewish today."

	"For information on a variety of programs which can help you
explore your connection to Judaism, write ..."

	""Founded in 1906, the American Jewish Committee is dedicated to
strengthening the Jewish community, enriching the quality of Jewish
life, and enhancing democratic values for all."


Dear Ruth Ginsberg and the American Jewish Committee,
	As to the claims made in your advertisment, N.Y. Times, 1/14/96,
stating that Jews are righteously concerned with democracy and rights
for others, I have a few questions before I can accept the proposals
as being sincere.   
	What record do you have as to the Israeli policy of shooting down
little kids, and their policy of condoning torture? What is your view
on the Jewish imprisionment of thousands of Palestinians without
trial? What is your opinion on the jews in Israel razing peoples
houses. What is your view on Israeli defiance of U.N. resolutions?
What is your view on Israel terrorizing 100s of 1000s in Lebanon.
	Do you think support of Israel should be subject to a democratic
vote by the citizens of the U.S.? Do you think that support of Israel
is a violation of our 'separation of church and state' clause?
	What is your view of Holocaust revisionism? Do you think
revisionists have the right to be heard, in the press, on TV, on
campus? What is your view on the continuing activity of the Simon
Wiesenthal Center and the ADL to bring censorship to the Worldwide
Web? Do you think they should be required to name offending sites
explicitly and should be required to present their case before a
democratic vote?
	Do you have any record to show you have addressed any of this?
                           ================

XVIII.                    Quote from the Talmud
	"He who so ever saves the life of a Jew, is as if he had saved
the life of the whole world."
	Which further implies, 'He who so ever saves the life of a goyim,
is as if he had saved nothing'.
                           ================

XIX.                   Statement by a Israeli leader at a 
                      "Salute to Israel" gathering in L.A.
	"The United States wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for
Israel".
	Now there is a true statement. The Unitied States, and the world,
would be a lot better off if Israel never existed. 
                            ===============

XX.                The Jew who took 500 Japanese prisoners.

	The full account was posted on alt.rev. a number of months ago.
It had also received exposure in public newspapers.
	About ten years ago or so a Jew laid claim to the Congressional
Metal of Honor. His story was that he took 500 Japanese prisoners. For
some reason and eventually, almost the full U.S. Senate got involved
in special legislation to have the matter considered seriously, and
were opting to award the nations highest citation.  As it turned the
Jew was exposed as a liar and the matter slid away into the history of
the rest of the exaggerations.
	The matter was taken up by the Senate on the urgings of major
Jewish organizations, which makes the lie their lie. The lie was
exposed by members of the claiming person's unit during the war. The
Jews tried to make it look like it was on their initiative, the Simon
Wiesenthal Center being one of the Jewish oraganizations involved.
	 

   


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 09:39:53 PDT 1996
Article: 52480 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!in-news.erinet.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More goofy Nizkor stuff
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:06 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <31f4e04a.2739933@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f3cdf3.19406979@news.pacificnet.net> <4t16b5$ev2@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-0.pacificnet.net
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>	It's reall simple L'il Tommy.  You made the challenge.  I accept it.  When 
>can we start?

	"You (meaning Moran) made the challenge."?   Wherzat?
>
>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:16 PDT 1996
Article: 52493 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:22:50 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31f4e036.2719940@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f3cfd4.19888507@news.pacificnet.net> <4t14bv$p5h@engnews1.Eng.Sun.COM>
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rice@aluminum.eng.sun.com (Daniel Rice) wrote:


>>	
>>	Lets summarize: The one number was 700,000 and the correction is
>>100,000. This figure of the number of Jews in France is put at 70,000
>>in recent referrences.
>
>  Ignoring the rest of Moran specious logic, I'll just note that he has
>already made his first mistake here.  The overestimate of 600,000 is
>for the entire _sum_.  Some large part of this, Hilberg claims, is
>due to an overestimate for unoccupied France, but not all of it.  Once
>again, revisionist reading comprehension appears to leave something to be
>desired.
>
>						Dan

	An "overestimate" is an "overestimate" regardless of any "reading
comprehension". 
	The current figure given by websites and books is 70,000
altogether.


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:17 PDT 1996
Article: 52494 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:22:57 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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References:  
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>So, whay are the SS-women who bury the skeletal corpses so fat?
>
>The following photos are in
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images
>
>They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
>William Hodge and Company, 1949.  
>
>Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
>Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
>Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
>Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
>Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in 
>Belsen.
>         
>The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
>that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
>       
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
>
>Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz 
>             and Belsen). 
>
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:
>
>Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
>              corpses in Belsen.

	None of which says it was the result of a mass extermination
process. 
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
>
>Kramer.jpg:   Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
>              II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.         
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52495 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:01 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 18
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References:  
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>The Nazis also ran out of water?
>
>SS-Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein, said that numerous
>died from thirst.
>
>Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
>Panzer training school, about a mile away.

"800 tons"? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to keep 6 or
7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?

>
>-Danny Keren.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52496 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>
>Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
>that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
>Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
>Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
>worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
>I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
>other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
>increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
>should you care?".
>
>

>-Danny Keren.

     I believe there is a photo of Kramer in one of the currently big
three Holocaust books, Hiberg, Bauer or Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp. He's a genetic goody two shoes. The photo reeks of a person of
high moral standard.

	"Can't judge a book by its cover"? you say. Then why do
publishers go through extremes to make the covers of books into bill
boards. Everyone in the world has used or will use a term like "He
looks like ...", "He looked like ..."

	  
	
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52497 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 45
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References: <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net> <4st9c5$f8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4stnga$bp3@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <31f3cd41.19228748@news.pacificnet.net> <4t0tso$jaq@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
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rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

Moran from previous post.

>>	Whatever Mr.Green is proposing here, whether it be correct or
>>incorrect, is irrelevant. Mr.green's practice is to put these 'Hah
>>hah, what about this' type of thing up for consideration and yet fails
>>to show a relevance that was and has been solicited in this very
>>thread.
 
Mr.Green:

>Green stands pat.  Moran made a statement about the relation between HCN
>and cyanide ions.  He didn't understand that in solution the two are
>intimately connected.  Moran was babbling about something he didn't
>understand.

Moran:

	Still no relevance to the study. No relevance to show that any
cyanide compounds found at Auschwitz today originated from HCN. No
relevance to the "local binding" the report mentions, which itself
doesn't make any connection to anything to show the extremely minute
amount of cyanide compounds originated from HCN. 

	"Intimately connected" Mr.Green says? Now what?

	The only thing conclusive from the report is that they found
cyanide compounds in subterrainian situations, in Prussian blue stains
and that higher traces seemed to concentrate in highly localized
conditions, to which the report did not offer any theory or reason.  

>Regards,
>
>Green
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:20 PDT 1996
Article: 52498 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:14 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 8
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

Ehrlich. Take a look at Jeffrey's post. Then notice where Jamie pops
in some teeny little announcement about identifying some remote camp.
Why waste time with it?

	As far as Mr.Mittleman's response? Just be glad you didn't have
to write it. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:21 PDT 1996
Article: 52499 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:18 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <31f4e055.2751358@news.pacificnet.net>
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Sat, 20 Jul 1996, tom moran wrote:
>
>> Marty Kelley  wrote:
>> >I agree--reading Tom Moran's writing will DEFINITELY give you a clear idea
>> >of the difference between logic and illogic.  Though not necessarily the
>> >impression that Mr. Moran may hope for.  You might begin by looking at a
>> >couple of documents that address the history of Mr. Moran's intellectual
>> >dishonesty (or simple denseness): "Tom Moran and the Menorah" and "Tom
>> >Moran's Lies about _Schindler's List_".  They are archived at:
>> >
>> >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/>
>> 
>> 	Okay Mr.iznogod, there you have your first dose from those who
>> insist on all things Holocaust.
>> 
>> 	Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
>> Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
>> referrence in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
>> (responses to main articles) which they omit.
>
>Mr. Moran, you seem to be saying that I have misrepresented your claims
>and comments in the two pieces that I cite.  Since you have never
>specifically responded to either FAQ, I would like to know what parts of
>your lies about the menorah or _Schindler's List_ you think I have
>commented on incorrectly.  Please be specific.

Is this the part you refer to? The one you say is not "specific"?
  
"Here is how one that denies most things Holocaust does it. What
Mr.Kelley is trying to do here is discredit Moran by posting some
reference in Nizkor files, which are really only pieces of threads
(responses to main articles) which they omit."

Here I'll summarize its specifics.

It states that Nizkor files are not orderly, omit some material or
have it way out of order. I don't know about these particular
"menorah" - "Schindler's List" files, since I haven't checked it out
as of late. But most of the time the files on Moran omit or displace
the motivating, lead article, the files being mostly miscombobulated
pieces of threads, a file on a lead article starting off with a
response.  
>
>List of thread titles (signifying nothing) snipped
> 
>> 	Since Nizkor claims to carry all of of Moran's stuff, maybe
>> Mr.Kelley can supply a URL for this since he seems to agree with most
>> of Moran's posts.
>
>Mr. Moran, you really do have the oddest thought processes: I referenced
>two pieces which show you to be a liar and a muddled thinker, and you
>interpret this as support for the rest of your "ideas"?  
>
>Does the term non-sequitur mean anything to you?
>
>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>
>"A thoroughly fun, mindless little vacation, _Independence Day_
>is sort of like an enema: eventful, and then you feel empty"
>			-capsule review, _The Tucson Weekly_
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:21 PDT 1996
Article: 52500 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:22 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31f4e057.2753060@news.pacificnet.net>
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>
>>  	Moran will give you straight foward material and the responses
>>  will ... Well just follow along and you will see.
>
>	The stragiht-forward "information" that Moran presents is, rather, twisted 
>misrepresentations embellished with bigotry and outright lies.  One organization that 
>Moran has cited as a source states: "As Bill Moffett's successor, I cannot state too 
>strongly the Huntington's abhorrence of statements like those of Mr. Moran's,  He has 
>twisted and embellished the facts concerning the release of the Dead Sea Scroll to 
>serve his bigotry and anti-Semitism."
>
>	--YFE

	The name of the "oragnization" Mr.Edeiken is speaking of is a
Mr.Zeidberg. When he mentions the "Huntington's abhorrence" he is
speaking for himself.
	Even this he seemed to regret after a phone conversation with him
in regard to Mr.Edeiken's posting his response to him. Mr.Zeidberg
became a little more attentive when I ask him if he knew what kind of
format his note would be posted on and if he knew the nature of the
person who he was dealing with at the other end of his communication. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:22 PDT 1996
Article: 52501 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:23:23 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	For anyone wanting to check out any dialogue that took place
under previous posts of this article should check out "Deja News" a
website which supplies a righteous history of newsgroups.
	This site is much more straight foward than Nizkor's which is
'all over the place'. In order to check out Nizkor dossiers it could
be necessary to down load up to 800 kilobytes and scan it to review
any particular previous post they may have on any of their
adversaries. 
	For Deja News, just enter "BEHOLD THE LIE".


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 23 11:29:23 PDT 1996
Article: 52518 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:00:37 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

	An interesting post by McVay. On the surface it appears to be
honest statement, from a freedom lovers stance, but there are a few
things that could use pointing out.
	Within his condemnation he singles out Ernst Zundel as an example
of a "hate" site. Though there may be indeed racist pages out there,
that would express the dictionary definition of "hate", Zundel would
not fit in as an example.
	Nizkor also carries links to oragnizations it endoreses, which we
could point out have a "hate" air about them. The JDL for one, the
ARA, and Jeruselem One. There are probably others, which I haven't
checked.
	Other than this, I commend McVay for his treatment here.




From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 07:10:17 PDT 1996
Article: 52821 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: R. Graves, down by the school yard
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:09:14 GMT
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"Simon Wiesenthal and the ostrich syndrome"
7/23/96

"Tom Moran, freedom-lover?
BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

See ftp://ftp.nizkor.org/pub/nizkor/people/m/moran.tom
	
Richard Graves	


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 07:10:18 PDT 1996
Article: 52829 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:17:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

><*[*] [*] [104670.3420@compuserve.com] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
><+[Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome] [Tue 23 Jul 96
>16:31][Tue 23 Jul 96 18:56][0]*>
>
> 13c> What I find interesting is the peculiar naivety of Mr Littman's
> 13c> otherwise suspicious inconsistency. I don't think he intends to
> 13c> be deceitful; he honestly doesn't see that exposing falsehood
> 13c> and suppressing it are incompatible. He imagines, I suspect,
>
>I've spoken to Sol Littman and see that there is more to his method
>than you might think.

	From what I have witnessed of Littman's stuff in the L.A.Times,
he's an ethnocentric idiot.
>
>++GMAIL 1.3++ Poor Matt - he is trying, you know. Very trying.
>--
>|Fidonet:  Alec Grynspan 1:2424/224
>|Internet: alec@gryn.org
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 07:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52831 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:43:17 GMT
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:00:37 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>
>>	An interesting post by McVay. On the surface it appears to be
>>honest statement, from a freedom lovers stance, but there are a few
>>things that could use pointing out.
>>	Within his condemnation he singles out Ernst Zundel as an example
>>of a "hate" site. Though there may be indeed racist pages out there,
>>that would express the dictionary definition of "hate", Zundel would
>>not fit in as an example.
>>	Nizkor also carries links to oragnizations it endoreses, which we
>>could point out have a "hate" air about them. The JDL for one, the
>>ARA, and Jeruselem One. There are probably others, which I haven't
>>checked.
>>	Other than this, I commend McVay for his treatment here.
>
>	Again you let him off easy.
>	
>	McVay is clearly a hypocrite.  His works to avoid showing his hate which is
>stronger than any he pretends to fight.  
>
>	He is a sadist looking for people to hurt.  He is into it very deeply.  You
>can read it in his every post.  
>
>	It is because of people like him that the legends of the vampire, the wendigo,
>and the werewolf started.  
>
>	He is the kind of person the human race abhors.
>
>	May it rest in peace.  
>
	Maybe he's coming around. Slowly. Maybe he's been subjected to so
much chutzpah, that he's starting to see the unaesthetic nature of it
all. Jews always seem to over do it.

>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 07:10:19 PDT 1996
Article: 52835 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews in the East
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:11:21 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>
>What did the *east* hold for Berlin's Jews?  In the Baltic states
>they were loved least of all.  Nor were the other eastern territories
>healthier destinations.  Berlin's fifth trainload, of 1,030 Jews, set out
>for Minsk on November 14.  Of Minsk's 238,000 citizens in 1939, one
>hundred thousand had been Jews, many of them skilled workers.  By December
>1941 only eighteen thousand of the original Jews had not fled or been
>shot.  These and the newcomers from Berlin survived if they were fit for
>work; the rest died or were put to death a few months later.
>
>Source: David Irving, *Goebbels*, p. 377, the above sentences are
>buttressed with three footnotes to extensive primary documentation.
 
	God damn you Erlich. Jesus Christ. Holy smoke. Who's side are you
on? What's the big idea?  Oh, yea, now I remember. Revisionist bents
aren't of the mind that denies many civilians, including Jews were
killed during the war. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 07:41:10 PDT 1996
Article: 52836 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:31:24 GMT
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>Subject:	Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
>From:	dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>Date:	Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:12:57 GMT
>
>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
>## Panzer training school, about a mile away.
>
># "800 tons"? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to 
># keep 6 or 7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?
>
>Let's do a little calculation here:
>
>(800*1000)/(6000*100*360) = 0.0037
>
>That is, 800 tons of food, distributed over 6-7 thousand people
>over a 100 years, gives, as far as I can see, 0.0037 kilograms,
>or 3.7 grams, per person per day.
>
>I see that you're now claiming that a person can live on 3.7
>grams of food per day.
>
>Heck, this is even better than your previous, very famous,
>example of "Moranic mathematics".
>
>Go to sleep, zeide. There. There. That's more like it.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>COMMENT FROM EHRLICH606:
>
>Dan, I like your posts, but your attempt at a remorseless putdown of Tom
>would have been better if you got your magnitudes right.  A ton is either
>2,000 lbs. or 2,240, long or short.  So everyone gets 7.4 grams a day,
>which is _twice_ as much as you calculated.
>
>BTW, I do a lot of by year calculations, I usually use 365.25 to reflect
>leap years,
>of course, at the century mark you have to drop one.  But that gets into
>the realm of very minor.


	I didn't see this post by Keren, but here he corrects me on my
numbers statement, which I just threw out there for satirical comment.
What Keren shows here is, he has gone through the simple procedure of
figuring out in a arithmetic way to show the numbers to be way off,
and then refers to other mathematical cipherings I have made, which he
simply wrote and still writes off as "Moronic mathematics", never once
making an attempt at showing the previous numbers were in err in a
mathematical way. This of course is mostly about how I figured out
that only 15 per cent or less of the HCN in Zyklon B would have been
used in the time frames offered for the extermination process.
	'Hah, hah', thinks Keren, 'I have caught Moran', but by so doing
he raises the question of why he didn't try it with the other figures.

	Interesting. Revealing. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 11:17:16 PDT 1996
Article: 52843 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:02:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <31f61e6e.3952897@news.pacificnet.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>[About photographs of corpses in Belsen]
>
># None of which says it was the result of a mass extermination
># process. 
>
>You should have defended Kramer and Hoessler in their
>trial, Moran. Maybe, then, they wouldn't have ended
>up at the end of a rope.

	Are you saying these guys had been "defended" in trial? If U.S.
legal procedure was founded on precidences of the War Crimes trials
everyone whoever went on trial would be hung.

>
>But, most probably, they would hang themselves, just to
>spare the torture of hearing you talk.
>
>Go ahead, Bawawawawaw me.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 11:17:16 PDT 1996
Article: 52846 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ideological stances:
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:15:45 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <31f620e0.4578822@news.pacificnet.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  >	The stragiht-forward "information" that Moran presents is, rather, twisted 
>>  >misrepresentations embellished with bigotry and outright lies.  One organization 
>that 
>>  >Moran has cited as a source states: "As Bill Moffett's successor, I cannot state 
>too 
>>  >strongly the Huntington's abhorrence of statements like those of Mr. Moran's,  
>He has 
>>  >twisted and embellished the facts concerning the release of the Dead Sea 
>Scroll to 
>>  >serve his bigotry and anti-Semitism."
>>  >
>>  >	--YFE
>>  
>>  	The name of the "oragnization" Mr.Edeiken is speaking of is a
>>  Mr.Zeidberg. When he mentions the "Huntington's abhorrence" he is
>>  speaking for himself.
>
>	A lie as is to be expected from L'il Tommy.  He is the DIRECTOR of that 
>organization.  He wrote on the letterhead of that organization.  He spoke for the 
>organization.

	I also talked to the janitor, and he disagrees with Mr.Ziedberg.
There is also a board. Maybe you should send them the accounting and
see what they have to say. I would get in touch with Mr.Zeidberg and
let him know what your up to. I think he would prefer you don't ever
mention his name again. Try it. See if he sends you a reiteration.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 14:52:04 PDT 1996
Article: 52906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.inc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More goofy Nizkor stuff
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:05:03 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>  >	It's reall simple L'il Tommy.  You made the challenge.  I accept it.  
>When 
>>  >can we start?
>>  
>>  	"You (meaning Moran) made the challenge."?   Wherzat?
>
>>>>>
>	Why did you delete the rest of the material?  Is it becasue you stated 
>that you challenged me?  Is is because your mouth wrote a check that your 
>body could not cash?  Is it true that you sup on tomato soup when you are sick 
>because you are opposed to cannibalism?

	Is this your answer to "Wherzat?"?


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 18:19:07 PDT 1996
Article: 52931 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:49:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

>There's also the rest of Eastern Europe, especially Poland.

The Holocaust dedicated have some things to say about the claim that
there were 3,000,000+ Polish Jews. For their methods of responding to
the challenge of these numbers, see alt.revisionism, "3,000,000 Prewar
Polish Jews?"  


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 18:19:08 PDT 1996
Article: 52932 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:52:50 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>[About photographs of corpses in Belsen]
>You should have defended Kramer and Hoessler in their
>trial, Moran. Maybe, then, they wouldn't have ended
>up at the end of a rope.
>
>But, most probably, they would hang themselves, just to
>spare the torture of hearing you talk.
>
>Go ahead, Bawawawawaw me.

	I believe the term is "Bwahahahaha". It's the term you're allies
in thinking use, not mine.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 18:19:08 PDT 1996
Article: 52933 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:54:35 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 16
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>  
>>       I believe there is a photo of Kramer in one of the currently big
>>  three Holocaust books, Hiberg, Bauer or Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death
>>  Camp. He's a genetic goody two shoes. The photo reeks of a person of
>>  high moral standard.
>
>	This is incredible garbage L'il tommy.  Even for you.
>
>	Lower than that, I cannot go.

	Seems Mr.Edeiken is finally starting to realize he is, at least,
at some degree of "low".


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 24 21:55:59 PDT 1996
Article: 52960 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:58:47 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## Re food, there were 800 tons of food in the stores of the
>## Panzer training school, about a mile away.
>
># "800 tons"? What was it stored for? The students? Enough to 
># keep 6 or 7 thousand people alive for a hundred years?
>
>Let's do a little calculation here:
>
>(800*1000)/(6000*100*360) = 0.0037
>
>That is, 800 tons of food, distributed over 6-7 thousand people
>over a 100 years, gives, as far as I can see, 0.0037 kilograms,
>or 3.7 grams, per person per day.
>
>I see that you're now claiming that a person can live on 3.7
>grams of food per day.
>
>Heck, this is even better than your previous, very famous,
>example of "Moranic mathematics".

	Its obvious that you have, here, made an attempt at responding to
my numerical satire with a mathematical response, which brings up the
question of where is the same procedure for any previous "Moranic
mathematics"?


>Go to sleep, zeide. There. There. That's more like it.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 25 09:08:58 PDT 1996
Article: 79794 of control
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <31f7747a.459118@news.pacificnet.net>
Control: cancel <31f7747a.459118@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:03:07 GMT
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From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 25 09:10:22 PDT 1996
Article: 53098 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:26:50 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <31f775e3.819920@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4i63p3$l5@axl02it.ntc.nokia.com> <4skapj$6t4@netnews.upenn.edu>  <4srb74$oir@netnews.upenn.edu> <4ss7b4$9o3 <6b4_9607231741@tor250.org> <7187cc$b1531.ff@NEWS>
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georgeh@www.comet.chv.va.us (George F. Hardy) wrote:

>
>Has there been an accurate count of the number?  6,000,000 Jews
>was claimed early, the number sort of picked out of the air.
>
>I have seen the following list:
>6,000,000    Jews
>5,000,000    Russians  (non-Jewish)
>2,000,000    Poles  (non-Jewish)
>  500,000    Gypsies
>  500,000    others.
>
>Is this close to correct?  It seems to count all deaths in various
>detention camps.

Do you mean is it correct that you are quoting your source right or
are you asking if the source is right?

I'd be interested in knowing where you got this. 5,000,000 non-Jewish
Russians?  2,000,000 non-Jewish Poles?

It wouldn't have any details on how and where all this took place,
would it?

Considering these figures, this would be 14,000,000 all together.

Nizkor posts a figure of 12,000,000. I have also seen 10,000,000 and
11,000,000.

I have also seen 20,000,000 to 22,000,000 Russians altogether.

There is a problem for the Jewish Holocaust story from these
non-Jewish figures.

The Jewish Holocaust story has 3,000,000 names of victims compiled,
has hundreds of eyewitness testimonies and documents to show the
Jewish side of the story, which leaves us to wonder where there is any
accounting of such detail for the other 4 to 8 million.



>GFH
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 25 10:31:35 PDT 1996
Article: 91121 of alt.censorship
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal,ont.general,bc.general,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:29:29 GMT
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dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:

>libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
>>Can we mark this down as the point where Giwer bottomed out, or will
>>he go further?
>
>	I think he can still go deeper.
>
>	Then again, he may threaten to sue me for saying that.
>
>	Derek
>-- 
>Derek Bell  dbell@maths.tcd.ie  WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
>           Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
>                    George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
>                       _The Rejected Statement_

Anderson. I see you have a new puppy.


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 25 11:44:05 PDT 1996
Article: 53137 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What is, and what ain't
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:42:41 GMT
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	The Holocaust story utilizes orders made from Auschwitz to
various manufacturers, contractors and supply companies. The amount of
Zyklon B ordered, orders for chimney design and construction,
ventilation fans, fire brick, and designs and orders for insinerators
and crematoria.
	The idea is to show that the camp was engaged in developing an
extermination system.  Of course no one denies there weren't
cremations at the camp, or the need for other facilities that would
need the same kind of equipment.
	The Holocaust story has it that there were five retorts (fire
chambers) heating three ovens each for a total of fifteen in Crema II.
The story has it that underground flues were installed to direct the
thermal intense fumes and ashes away from the retorts and to a chimney
located out side of the building. In some cases the location of a
retort might require running any duct system as far 40 or 50 feet to
the stack outside.
	The fires are said to have been raging all day, day after day,
week after week onto months. In this case we have to consider the
likelyhood that intense heat would build up in the flue system, it
being subjected to temperatures of 1500 degrees F or more on a
continuous basis.
	Five of these flue arms converging from a radiating pattern
beneath the floors of the building would have to have some negative
effect. The heat wouldn't be able to dissapate fast enough through the
soil, the soil temperature itself would have to hit hundreds of
degrees. 
	How was this flue system constructed? It would need very special
attention. Special pump systems to draw the hot expended gases and ash
down into the ground and then to the chimney, a housing chamber for
the motor and workings and some kind of heat dissapation system for
the flues. Just trying to ballpark a design musters up a vision of a
sizable undertaking, probably requiring technology the Germans hadn't
had to develope before. 
	Holocaust researcher, Pressac, has poured over these records for
ten years and has presented his culminating conclusions by dramatic
prose, citing orders for this or that, presenting plans and systems
layouts and citing communications.
	But no where is there an account of any system that would be
required to make the claimed flue system work.
	If such a system did exist, or even one that wouldn't account for
cooling any underground flues, any system at all, even if it was just
some ducts buried beneath the ground, there should be evidence
existing today. The locations are said to still exist, parts of the
building still exist, exact locations would be narrowed down to a very
small area, affording a forensic archeological opportunity that is not
afforded to most researchers in the fields. The building is said to
have been blown apart by the Germans to cover the crime, yet, any
flues buried underground should still be there, at least in part,
especially since they were, and/or, are beneath a floor of concrete
also.
	Holocaust researchers may pore over records for years on end and
present their stuff, but the more they do the more we have to
recognize what is missing, such as the system for evacuating the
intensly hot emittions of five coke burning retorts.  If the story can
only present vague record evidence that is prone to interpretation and
never come up with something exclusive and conclusive to the story,
the more it happens the more focus on what's missing. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 25 15:09:17 PDT 1996
Article: 53152 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Numbers Racket one day, next day boolean
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 15:49:14 GMT
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X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

					
	At one time the "numbers racket" was a big thing in the
metropolitan N.Y. area. Seems every factory, bar or candy store had
someone around that could take a number bet from someone.
	The procedure was simple. You could bet anywhere from a penny to
whatever on a number between 0 and a 1000. The number was posted in
the newspapers every day, even though the numbers racket was illegal.
The number would be the last three digits in the 'daily take' posted
for a particular track. Say the track Aqueduct was open and it was the
track from which to take the number, and the daily take for a
particular day was 2,432,897 dollars. The number for that day would
then be 897. A neat little scheme. The racket with the free and wide
spread posting of the vital number. Even though nickels and dimes
could be bet, millions changed hands.
	Then one day, the New Jersey State Lottery, already enacted,
became operational. That day the Numbers Racket came to a screeching
halt.

	No one ever discussed the odds involved as far as my experience
goes. I used to mock the Numbers Racket by pointing out that the odds
were a thousand to one.

	That's about the odds you have for finding things in Nizkor
dossiers on alt.revisionism adversaries.
	It could be necessary to have to launch a retrieve for 800,000
bytes to find something. Once you have waited the twenty or thirty
minutes for it to arrive, you would then have to scroll through the
thing to find what you might have been directed to by one of the
Nizkor people or their loyal supporters on alt.revisionism. 
	Now with Deja News and the terrifying boolean logic a person can
do better by going to this access to historical alt.misellaneous
files.
     Say Nizkor directs you to something like;

"See ftp://ftp.nizkor.org/pub/nizkor/people/m/moran.tom".

	What happens? You are met with a list of witty titles with the
megabyte column on the right. Could be anything from a couple thousand
bytes to 800 kilobytes. What do you do? Say you have posted something
on a particular topic and eventually along comes a Holocaust obsessed
and says something like "Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha" and then
follows up with,
 
"See ftp://ftp.nizkor.org/pub/nizkor/people/m/moran.tom".
	
	Deja News is like the legalized lottery against the 'Numbers
Racket'. Now the facility is there for more coherent retrieval of past
posts which makes any inane Holocaustic referrals to Nizkor files like
directing a person to a location by pointing in the opposite
direction.   


From tm@pacificnet.net Thu Jul 25 20:02:27 PDT 1996
Article: 53204 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: $$$$$$ "FLOOD GATE" $$$$$$
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:04:14 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <31f77eb1.3073603@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9-17.pacificnet.net

	
	"Spielberg gets funds for Holocaust project"

Washington - "Two Jewish senators lent the backing of the U.S.
government to Steven Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project,
presenting the Hollywood director with $1 million federal grant on
Tuesday.
	Spielberg said the funding will allow him to approach Germany,
Austria and other governments for additional grants to create a living
history of the Holocaust through interviews with more than 50,000
survivors.
	'This single gift will open the floodgates to get all the funding
necessary to complete this project,' he said.
	The interviews, as well as family photographs and other
artifacts, will be preserved electronically. He said the information
eventually will be made available to museums and schools 'to teach
teachers to teach tolerance'.
	Sen. Alan Specter, R-Pa., a Senate Appropriations Committee
member who pushed for funding, said too many people discount the
Holocaust -- in which more than six million were exterminated -- as a
hoax. He said the grant will lend credibility to the plight of the
Jews in Nazi-occupied territory during WWII.
	About $40 million has been raised so far, with Spielberg himself
the largest donor. Spielberg projects needing $20 million more.
	Sen. Boxer, D-Calif., said Spielberg contacted her for funding
assistance, and she contacted Specter to get bipartisan support in the
GOP-controlled Congress. Funding was provided in a fiscal 1996
spending bill signed into law in April."
                          =================

	How disgusting.
	
	What was the Senate vote? Ninety nine to zero, one abstaining?
One hundred to zero, none abstaining? Not happening when the Senate
votes on things that should be good for the people of the U.S. or the
world is the common occurence of the Senate to muster 90 - 0, 95 - 0
like votes for Jewish causes.

	The packet was sealed back in April? And we are finding out just
now? Is this a release by the Senate or Spielberg, or is a release of
something someone rooted out recently?

	This precedence will "open the flood gates" to more $$$$$$$$$?
>From  Austria, Germany and "other countries"? We can wait and see what
happens there. We can only assume there are Jewish groups out swarming
all over the globe trying to get the $$$$$$$$$$$.

	They got $40 million already? Spielberg giving 20 million
himself? Those proceeds from "Schindlers List" that people say he got?
It would be interesting to see the details. Where did the other $20
million come from? They're going to need over $60 million altogether? 
I wonder if they didn't try for 10 or 20 million or if it really was
allocated under some other entry?

	The "grant will lend credibility" to the plight of the Jews?

	The most hideous part of the report is, "He said the information
eventually will be made available to museums and schools 'to teach
teachers to teach tolerance'". Of course teaching about the plight of
the Palestinians in the American school system is "anti-Semitic".

	The reality is, by the time this project gets to anything, the
Holocaust story will be so doubted and thus so challenged all the
Holocaust Museums will be boarded up, no more mention on TV, no more
mention anywhere but in circles that will be commenting on its
falsity.

	This, like the Goldhagen book "Ordinary Germans ...", and other
incidents will do more to draw attention to the revisionist side of
the story than it will to reinforce the Holocaust lie.

	Eventually parents will, if they aren't already, forbid their
kids to go on the mandatory Holocaust ride in our school systems. No
one will make a stink about it. Perhaps in the first few incidents,
charges will be leveled against them for being "anti-Semitic",
especially if the school is in an area that has a high Jewish
population. But then some of the incidents will make it into the
papers, and more people will know, and more will complain and resist,
until the school systems will be instructed to make it voluntary. Then
the reality will be taught in the streets and in the homes and in the
mail. Then the Holocaust instructor will be sitting there all alone,
facing an empty classroom. 
	The Holocaust story has to be the ultimate example of how a lie
can exist to such a magnitude that it has. It will have to be taught
to our children so they will know to what extent a lie can exist and
endure and what processes were at play to elevate it and sustain it
and who were the ones behind it. The Holocaust lie will be too big an
example to overlook.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:53 PDT 1996
Article: 53259 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: for the last 4 days, there has been no delivery of food
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:30:00 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31f776bd.1038192@news.pacificnet.net>
References:   <31f4e040.2730431@news.pacificnet.net>  <31f61e6e.3952897@news.pacificnet.net> <4t5j5h$ac5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>: >You should have defended Kramer and Hoessler in their
>: >trial, Moran. Maybe, then, they wouldn't have ended
>: >up at the end of a rope.
>: 
>: 	Are you saying these guys had been "defended" in trial? If U.S.
>: legal procedure was founded on precidences of the War Crimes trials
>: everyone whoever went on trial would be hung.
>
>Then explain, Tommy, why half of the original 24 Nuremberg defendants
>WEREN'T hanged.  Explain why three of them were acquitted.
>
>Yes, they were defended.  They had council, and they had the right
>to cross-examine witnesses.  What do you call it?
>
>Bill

Really? Did any of the defense council ask for any forensic evidence?
How much cross examination took place? I've never seen any of it
posted. Seeing how the figures for Auschwitz have been lowered -
drastically - on new recogning, what was the figure put at during the
trial and how did they arrive at the figure? 





From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:54 PDT 1996
Article: 53260 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:31:30 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
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References: <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net> <4st9c5$f8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4stnga$bp3@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <31f3cd41.19228748@news.pacificnet.net> <4t5m8k$nh7@shiva.usa.net>
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <31f3cd41.19228748@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	The only book I could find in the library that dealt with
>	cyanide exclusively, was one by a Connell, spelling
>	uncertain,...
>
>So, Mr. Moran actually went to a library and found a book, but still
>could not get the author's name spelled right!  This is about as
>thorough as his research ever gets.
>
>--
>Harry Katz
>
>Be in the habit of receiving every man with a pleasant countenance.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

	I notice you shyed away from commenting on the material.

	I love your post though. It is so poetic. Can you figure out what
I'm talking about?


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:54 PDT 1996
Article: 53261 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:30:56 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <31f776e0.1073344@news.pacificnet.net>
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>
>This is entirely plausible.  As Deborah Lipstadt writes, After
>fumigation, gas would be trapped in all sorts of nooks and crannies. 
>Consequently mattresses, pillows, upholstered furniture, and similar items
>had to be shaken or beaten for at least an hour in the open air.quote> *Denying the Holocaust*, p. 224

	This would show why it would be necessary for a product like
Zyklon B to be designed for graduated, extended release from the
pellets. HCN being lighter than air, and purposely used for that
reason, would tend to stay in the air until it was 'captured' by some
material or taken on by the targeted pest. If it was released all at
once, it would tend to have less chances of reaching any nooks or
crannies, having adhered to surfaces and substances before it had the
chance.
	I believe there is a post out here right now that mentions
something about a hot air introduction system for Zyklon B into
fumigation chambers. If this is true, then we can assume that the
product would have the properties of slow release and the evaporation
was assisted with hot air for faster release when using a confined
area like a fumigation chamber. Hot air would also increase the
kinetic activity of the molecules in the air that would make
penetration into materials more thorough.   


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:55 PDT 1996
Article: 53262 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:56:11 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <31f77aff.2127794@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4t4aa6$2nc@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4t5grs$pou@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31f776e0.1073344@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>	I believe there is a post out here right now that mentions
>something about a hot air introduction system for Zyklon B into
>fumigation chambers. If this is true, then we can assume that the
>product would have the properties of slow release and the evaporation
>was assisted with hot air for faster release when using a confined
>area like a fumigation chamber. Hot air would also increase the
>kinetic activity of the molecules in the air that would make
>penetration into materials more thorough.   

	As to the hot air introduction of Zyklon B, it is legitimate to
wonder why the Germans wouldn't have used this for the "extermination"
chambers? Of course there is the story of lowering pails of red hot
coke down into the chambers to up the temperature. But then the
pellets were dropped into and onto the floor and heat rises.
	
	Since using Zyklon B under these circumstances still only used
15% or less of the HCN content, leaving the other 85% or more as
wasted, un-necessary, complicating the ventilation process and removal
of bodies, we wonder why the Germans wouldn't have used the hot air
introduction over the Zyklon B pellets to ease this inefficiency.


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:56 PDT 1996
Article: 53267 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: $$$$$$ "FLOOD GATE" $$$$$$
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:16:16 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <31f77f63.3251669@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	Sara Shwartz responds:

	"Of course! Why should we want to DOCUMENT the Holocaust? Why
should we interview survivors? It makes the whole revisionist house of
cards fall apart. So of course Mr. Moran is opposed to it."

	Lets see, Sara says this project to get more testimony from
"survivors", 50 years later, will make the revisionist house of cards
fall. Interesting. Does she admit there isn't enough now? Does she
think these testimonies will be just accepted as fact? Does she think
the electronic archiving of "artifacts" will support the Holocaust
claims? Does Sara Shwartz think the money is more appropriate for this
Jewish cause than for our pressing needs? Does she say it is better
given to this Jewish cause than for those indigents her ethnocentric
"tribe" say they are standing up for?

	Seems so. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:56 PDT 1996
Article: 53269 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Logical Conclusion
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:46:45 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Message-ID: <31f78864.5556817@news.pacificnet.net>
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	Whenever any articles and/or exachanges are posted on a format
like a Interent newsgroup it should be recognized that they are also
directed to whoever reads it, the random reader, even though any
exchanges may be between particular parties.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Fri Jul 26 05:08:57 PDT 1996
Article: 53367 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:09:25 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <31ecf414.2274279@news.pacificnet.net>
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>>  	Seeing how this whole thing was taking place on the open format
>>>  of alt.revisionism, one should wonder why Mr.Edeiken would opt to
>>>  e-mail the alleged list to an individual instead of posting it out
>>>  here. 
>  
>>>  Don't get too comfortable Mr.Edeiken, this is not one of the "logical
>>>  questions" to come.
>
>>	Gee, L'il Tommy if that's the best you can do, retire.   Or read my original 
>>post.
>
>	Mr.Edeiken, what "original" post are you talking about? On what
>date did you post it, under what title and what is the article I.D.
>number?

	Seems Mr.Edeiken wore himself out and missed this one.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:05 PDT 1996
Article: 53421 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "I will ... this weekend."
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 14:09:32 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 16
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>>  	Mr.Edeiken, when did you "mention" the e-mail in a previous
>>  article? What date was it, under what title and what is the article
>>  I.D. number?	
>
>	It's on dejanews, L'il Tommy.  I just checked.  Look for it.

	Poor Mr.Edeiken. He refuses to put the evidence foward. He says
he has found gold. He says he has filed the claim and he wants to sell
stock in the mine. His prospective clients ask him to show them the
mine. He shows them a satellite picture of Mars and says, 'Right
there'. He thinks to himself, 'These stupid goyems'.
	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:05 PDT 1996
Article: 53429 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Anti - Holocaust Revisionism
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:55:22 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Message-ID: <31f8ce35.576877@news.pacificnet.net>
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	Holocaust Dictionary

"Anti - Holocaust Revisionism: 1. The belief in more than 3% of the
Holocaust story,  2. the movement out to get Holocaust revisionism." 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:06 PDT 1996
Article: 53473 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:52:31 GMT
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Lines: 38
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:
>
># What I don't understand about that is that I have a graph
># of Zyklon out-gassing from the German firm that took over
># the production from Degesch, and it shows a straight 37%
># per half hour outgassing of the remaining volume.  
>
>It's different material. You're talking about something
>which is manufactured today. It's not the WW2 Zyklon-B;
>we've been through this. Doesn't Germar Rudolph say so
>himself?
>
>We have technical material, written by, among others,
>Dr. Gerhard Peters, the general manager of Degesch during WW2.
>
>It gives a much faster evaporation rate than 37% per 
>half-hour. And it's relevant, because it was written
>in the 1930's and 1940's, not 50 years later.

	Suddenly this person finds "fifty years later" significant for
his denials. Yet you can bet this person would have us believe
everything this new Spielberg project gets in the way of testimonies
>from  the living "survivors". 
>
>Any special reason that you continue to ignore it?
>
># Maybe the censors in Germany haven't caught up with it yet.  
>
>It's a pity to see you write stuff like this.
>
>Poste/e-mailed.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:07 PDT 1996
Article: 53477 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:53:21 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <31f8cda0.427481@news.pacificnet.net>
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rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <31f776e0.1073344@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>>>
>>>This is entirely plausible.  As Deborah Lipstadt writes, After
>>>fumigation, gas would be trapped in all sorts of nooks and crannies. 
>>>Consequently mattresses, pillows, upholstered furniture, and similar items
>>>had to be shaken or beaten for at least an hour in the open air.>>quote> *Denying the Holocaust*, p. 224
>>
>>	This would show why it would be necessary for a product like
>>Zyklon B to be designed for graduated, extended release from the
>>pellets. HCN being lighter than air, and purposely used for that
>>reason, would tend to stay in the air until it was 'captured' by some
>>material or taken on by the targeted pest. If it was released all at
>>once, it would tend to have less chances of reaching any nooks or
>>crannies, having adhered to surfaces and substances before it had the
>>chance.
>>	I believe there is a post out here right now that mentions
>>something about a hot air introduction system for Zyklon B into
>>fumigation chambers. If this is true, then we can assume that the
>>product would have the properties of slow release and the evaporation
>>was assisted with hot air for faster release when using a confined
>>area like a fumigation chamber. Hot air would also increase the
>>kinetic activity of the molecules in the air that would make
>>penetration into materials more thorough.   
>
>More "revisionist science."  Perhaps, Mr. Moran could explain the
>relevence of the molecular mass of HCN to whether air with a few parts
>per thousand of HCN rises or falls.  Mr. Moran does Nitrogen rise
>abobove oxygen?  N2 is mass 28, O2 is mass 32 and HCN is mass 27.
>Think about it, or open a book for a change.

	Again for Mr.Green with his little imputs but no relevance
stated. For the fourth time in this thread I will ask Mr.Green for the
relevance. Mr.Green, do you have a continuation to show what relevance
there is to the topic of cyanide traces at Auschwitz today and its
evaporation rate with your above? 

>
>Regards,
>
>Rich Green
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:07 PDT 1996
Article: 53539 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel
Subject: Re: Nahos Conference
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:07:47 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 24
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References: <31F83FD3.2DC7@haven.ios.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53539 soc.culture.jewish:64614 soc.culture.israel:39723

Alexander Kimel  wrote:

>Point of Information:
>
>On October 11,12,13,& 14 (Columbus Day Weekend) NAHOS,
>the 
National Association of Jewish Child Holocaust Survivors,
(Jewish organization - No.973)

> will hold the: 
>
>	TENTH NATIONAL CONFERENCE	
>		Conference Theme:
>	THE LAST HOLOCAUST EYEWITHESSES SPEAK OUT
>		"OUR HERITAGE AND LEGACY". 
>
>For Registration and Information, please call:
>
>Esther Widman (718- 998-4266) or Fax (718) 998-4307.
>
>	E-mail kimel19@haven.ios.com
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:08 PDT 1996
Article: 53544 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: auschwitz:myths and facts
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:53:37 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 23
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>> You are mentally retarded. It's the only conclusion I can
>> make. There is no way that a normal person wouldn't have
>> understood such a thing, after so many times.
>
>Danny, he's a _troll_.  He's deliberately saying stupid things in
>order to make people talk about him and to distract from the facts
>of the Holocaust.

	J a m i e, the only names I see above are "Jamie McCarthy" and
"Daniel Keren". Now when you say, "Danny, he's a _troll_. He's ...
saying stupid things ...", I take it you are talking about Keren.


>Posted/emailed.
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:08 PDT 1996
Article: 53545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:54:12 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:


>I have yet to see a bunch of bloody idiots like you 
>"revisionists". To the last, you are a bunch of mentally
>retarded imbeciles. This is just incredible; I've never
>seen such fools in my life.

>-Danny Keren.

	Grrr, growl, snarl, bark, yap and foam.





From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:09 PDT 1996
Article: 53546 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 13:54:59 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 19
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ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:


>
>COMMENT FROM EHRLICH606:
>
>Dan, I like your posts, but your attempt at a remorseless putdown of Tom
>would have been better if you got your magnitudes right.  A ton is either
>2,000 lbs. or 2,240, long or short.  So everyone gets 7.4 grams a day,
>which is _twice_ as much as you calculated.
>
>BTW, I do a lot of by year calculations, I usually use 365.25 to reflect
>leap years,
>of course, at the century mark you have to drop one.  But that gets into
>the realm of very minor.
>

	Moran's calculations took into consideration, the Mercurian year
and feeding dwarfs.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:10 PDT 1996
Article: 53555 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another rabbi interpretation
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 21:26:08 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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	In a previous post on alt.revisionism I reported on;
					
	"Southern Baptist Convention Votes to Try to Convert Jews"
                    N.Y. Times, June 14, 1996

	"The Southern Baptist Convention today adopted a resolution
calling for efforts to convert Jews.

	Early reaction to the Southern Baptist's resoultion, ...
suggested that it was certain to strain relations with Jewish groups.

	News of the resolution, and of the missionary appointment,
brought criticism in interviews with two leading Jewish specialists in
interreligious relations.

	'My reaction is this is a great setback', said Rabbi A. James
Rudin, ... American Jewish Committee.

	Rabbi Leon Klenicki, ...Anti-Defamation League, ...said he was
'very sad' about the resolution, 'Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews'.
                        ===============

Then four days later the rabbi was given accomodation to 'clarify' his
- 'evil Christians' statement, "Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews" with,	

"I did not say Christians were guilty of the Holocaust.
What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times, presented
Judaism in a negative manner."

What he really said was "Especially after the Holocaust, Christians
have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews".
                   ======================
	
	Then on June 27, major accomodation in the N.Y.Times was given
to, a Leonard Garment, with the title "Christian Soldiers", where he
gives his quote version.
	
	"Two Jewish interfaith leaders have reacted properly. .... Rabbi
Leon Klenicki of the ADL ... going so far as to add that in light
of the Holocaust it would be more appropriate for the Baptists to
'talk about a mission to the Christians'.  
                   ======================

	Now today, 7/26/96, another rabbi, Jacob Neusner, gets his
accomodation in the L.A.Times, "Firmly Held Beliefs Often Require
Judgements" - "The Southern Baptist movement to convert Jews deepens
the faith of all",  where he writes in hyper chutzpic confusion about
the wonders of Judaism and how the Southern Baptist resolution has
really driven the Jews to cohere even more. Commenting along the way,
rabbi Jake gives his version of the intital rabbi's statement,
"Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk
about a mission to the Jews".
    Rabbi Jake's version is "Southern Baptists, it was said, have no
buisness denigrating Judaism". The "... it was said ..." referring to
the intial rabbi's statement "Especially after the Holocaust,
Christians have no right to talk about a mission to the Jews".  

Summary

The initial rabbi said; 6/14/96

"Especially after the Holocaust, Christians have no right to talk
about a mission to the Jews".
  
 He then said, 6/18/96
            
"I did not say Christians were guilty of the Holocaust.
What I noted is that Christianity, until modern times, presented
Judaism in a negative manner."

Then the Jewish lawyer said the initial rabbi said, 6/27/96

"... in light of the Holocaust it would be more appropriate for the
Baptists to 'talk about a mission to the Christians'". 

Then today, the latest rabbi says the intial rabbi said, 7/26/96
 
"Southern Baptists, it was said, have no buisness denigrating
Judaism". 
                   ======================

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:11 PDT 1996
Article: 53614 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numbers Racket one day, next day boolean
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 21:19:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31f9361d.2244345@news.pacificnet.net>
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libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>
>: 	Deja News is like the legalized lottery against the 'Numbers
>: Racket'. Now the facility is there for more coherent retrieval of past
>: posts which makes any inane Holocaustic referrals to Nizkor files like
>: directing a person to a location by pointing in the opposite
>: direction.   
>
>Yeah.  Like, when everybody but you found that post from Yale you
>claimed didn't exist.  Good thing, dejanews.

	When you say "everybody" I take it to mean you found it too,
which means you are going to post all the full particulars to show
you're not just a babbling idiot.

	If you say "everybody but you (meaning Moran) found that post",
why was I the only one to post it under "Moran finds Mr.Edeiken's
e-mail"?

	And Mr.Anderson, now that you have had your little child
statement off topic from the post under which you blabbed it, maybe
you would like to try something on topic. 

>Bill



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:11 PDT 1996
Article: 53687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:38:54 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 49
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
>	For anyone wanting to check out any dialogue that took place
>under previous posts of this article should check out "Deja News" a
>website which supplies a righteous history of newsgroups.
>	This site is much more straight foward than Nizkor's which is
>'all over the place'. In order to check out Nizkor dossiers it could
>be necessary to down load up to 800 kilobytes and scan it to review
>any particular previous post they may have on any of their
>adversaries. 
>	For Deja News, just enter "BEHOLD THE LIE".

	Since Moran has reposted "BEHOLD THE LIE" 4 or 5 times over the
last number of months, this title, out side or any "RE:" prefixes,
will show up that many times in Deja News. On the first post there
were no responses. On the second there may have been two. On the third
posting, more. Now we can see that a swarm has jumped on this time
around. They probably will come back with some witties to respond to
this, and we can only wait to see what they will be.
	The reason they didn't respond to the first pass was because they
couldn't muster up the chutzpa. They probably tried typing out
something, but then on review it was even too much for there own
tastes.
	But then after they saw that the post was going to keep
reappearing they felt they better say something, which is all on
record under the various postings of "BEHOLD THE LIE" in Deja News.
	This has happened a number of times as to Moran's posts, with no
response to the first pass and then on the second, one or two, and on
the third more. 
	The terrible repost is one of the Holocaust believers worst
nightmares. When it first comes out, they just wait until it goes
away. But when it reappears, now it is like the dog who hates the
postman because the letter carrier keeps coming to the house everyday,
to which the dog feels personal affront and starts to bark.

	Most often the Holocaustic technique is to say something like,
'We've been over this before' as if to think the posts are put out
here for them. 
	
	What really gets to the Holocaust dedicated is that after they
come out with whatever they come out with to respond, they think they
have settled the problem, which usually only exposes their own
deficiencies, and they dust off their hands as if to think, 'Well that
takes care of Moran, he won't be back with that one', and then one day
they bring up alt.revisionism and there it is again. 
	
	Ah yes, the dreaded repost.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:12 PDT 1996
Article: 53689 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just a few documented Moran lies
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:51:18 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 185
Message-ID: <31f9fff6.483614@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31ea5cf3.8114509@news.pacificnet.net> <31ed03f6.6340047@news.pacificnet.net> <17JUL199620583830@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> <31ef83ed.665471@news.pacificnet.net> <4soj8i$5p2@access5.digex.net>
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mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

Actually I hadn't taken a thorough look at this post. Seems something
that needs serious attention. Seems it needs a little comment.

>In article <31ef83ed.665471@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran  wrote:
>>	Anyway, here is a list of Moran's methods for revealing lies,
>>contempt, corruption, baby talk, inconsistancies, goose stepping, etc.
>
>    Baby talk?  You mean like Tommy Moran's "wee-wee" fixation of a few
>months back?
>
>    See for example:
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=10202467&search=thread
>&threaded=1&NTL=1&server=dnserver.db96q1

	I can't be bothered to look this up. I notice it is a response
and not Moran's directly. Moran's stuff has "pacificnet.net" in the
strings. Maybe Mr.Stein could post the exact damning sentences. That's
what Moran does. Or he will direct people to Deja News to check the
whole thing out, without trying to urge on a conclusion before the
invited even try it.

>
>>Moran's methods posted directly to alt.revisionism in lieu of just
>>stating he has done so.
>
>    Moran cuts things out of context, too.  That's dishonest and lacks
>integrity, as Mr. Giwer will be happy to tell you.
>
>    But all Moran has done here is give names of threads.  How does 
>anyone know whether the thread proves little Tommy's claims if it is no
>longer available on their server?

	Most of the time Moran will point someone to a current post if it
is fairly recent. Otherwise Moran directs them to Deja News without
further comment. There they can find the whole sequence. Moran doesn't
direct people to responses in threads and nothing else.


>[snip]
>
>>"Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt"
>
>    Except that this really proved that it was little Tommy who was was
>wacky and corrupt, as it turned out that he just didn't understand that
>the "ref" was a separate thing from the file itself.  He kept clicking on
>the "ref" and got (surprise) the bibliographic reference from which the
>scanned image came. 
>
>    Yet little Tommy still insists that this article proves something
>about Nizkor, instead of proving something about Tom Moran.
>
>    See:
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3c4sbilo$o70@
>access5.digex.net%3e&server=dnserver.db96q3
>
See  'Nizkor Roller Coaster, Wacky - Corrupt'. This way the whole
series of debate is there. It's also recent, servers could have it,
it's probably on most viewers screen.

>>	Maybe Mr.Mittleman will post his stuff instead of just claiming,
>>boasting, alleging and asserting he has.
>
>    Of course little Tommy has seen these many times before.  He just lies
>and pretends he hasn't.
>
>    If not otherwise specified, URLs referenced below are under: 
>
>    http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom/

	There's one of those Nizkor files. I wonder if this is the one
that you have to download 800 kilobytes before you can start to scroll
through the works looking for some unidentified thing like Mr.Stein's
above.

>
>    How about little Tommy's insistence that Schindler's List was a flop?
>
>    See: moran-schindler-faq

	The evidence put forth by the Holocaust dedicated that
"Schindler's List" was not a flop are figures given in the World
Almanac which were taken from Variety Magazine. No articles appeared
in any papers I have read concerning any wonderous box office
attendance. The only article that I saw was one that made comment on
low attendance in Europe, blaming it on the film being in black and
white and running three hours. The film had only a two or three week
stand in the L.A. area for the most part. 

>
>    How about little Tommy's claim that Israel is not big enough to fit
>200,000,000 trees?  (He got his math very, very wrong.)
>
>    See:
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=5807219&server=dnserver.db96q1

	See: Deja News - '200,000,000 = Zioexaggeration'.
	In the mean time maybe Mr.Stein will just post the proof for his
assertion of what Moran said. That's the way to do it. Mr.Stein has to
show I claimed "claim that Israel is not big enough to fit 200,000,000
trees".    


>    How about little Tommy's claim that a Jewish group tried to get the
>menorah declared a secular symbol?  Turns out that the group which made
>that argument was the KKK.
>
>    See: menora-faq

	See: Moran's 'No more M E N O R A H?', posted 7/20 for update on
that. 

I wonder if Mr.Stein is offering direction that will take people to
the full account or some post in the middle of a thread? 

It would be interesting to see what Mr.Stein would come back with if
he was ask to show his summary, "How about little Tommy's claim that a
Jewish group tried to get the menorah declared a secular symbol?
Turns out that the group which made that argument was the KKK",
by way of direct quoting.

>    How about little Tommy's lies about the Dead Sea Scrolls?
>
>    See:
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3c31a07671.3260787@
>news.pacificnet.net%3e%232/2&server=dnserver.dbapr
>
>    Also see:
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=2010843&server=dnserver.db96q3    

	Oh this one? Hmmm. I don't believe I initiated the post, but it
did turn into an extended thing. If it's all right there under the
string Mr.Stein has offered, okay. 

>    How about little Tommy's claim that Deborah Lipstadt said that the
>tears of the survivors should be sufficient proof?
>
>http://xp1.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3cPine.A32.3.91.96030
>7094528.105581D-100000@nevis.u.arizona.edu%3e&server=dnserver.db96q1
    
Letter to the Editor, N.Y.Times, Nov.8, 1993

"Need to refute the Deniers of the Holocaust"
In regard to her focus on Pressac as the author of a new book Deborah
Lipstadt said,
 "They argue Pressac's work is superfluous; the tears of the survivors
should be sufficient proof".

>    How about little Tommy challenging Yale Edeiken to prove to courtroom
>standards that Tommy was an antisemite, then running away when Yale made 
>a serious proposal to do just that if Tommy would pay the costs if Yale 
>succeeded?  Of course little Tommy the coward ran away, and little Tommy 
>the liar pretends he was never answered.
>
>    See: arbitration

	Mr.Stein directs "See: arbitration", but he doesn't say where.
Where, Deja News, Nizkor, a dictionary - the moon? 
	Anyway there was some recent discussion under 'More goofy Nizkor
stuff' and should still be on the screen. The facts are, Mr.Edeiken
solicited Moran to turn himself in for "anti-Semitism". That is what
all the evidence shows, in any thread. All Moran said was "Prove it".

>    This is just a sample.

	Just a "sample"? Of what Mr. Stein? 


>    Maybe little Tommy will stop lying and pretending these have not been 
>posted many, many times before.
>
>    Nah.  Little Tommy is a liar.  The documented proof listed above can
>be found by anyone who knows how to use a Web browser.  (In other words,
>not Tom Moran.)
>
>-- 
>Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:13 PDT 1996
Article: 53701 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:05:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 76
Message-ID: <31fa12fa.88374@news.pacificnet.net>
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># Since using Zyklon B under these circumstances 
># still only used 15% or less of the HCN content, 
># leaving the other 85% or more as wasted, un-necessary, 
># complicating the ventilation process and removal
># of bodies, we wonder why the Germans wouldn't have 
># used the hot air introduction over the Zyklon B pellets 
># to ease this inefficiency.
>
>But it has been explained to you, over and over again, that what
>you write above is a lie. The HCN evaporates much faster than what
>you claim. You admit you have no technical source to support your
>claims re the evaporation rate; you *were* presented with technical
>material, written by Dr. Gerhard Peters and others, which proves
>you're lying.

	This drives Keren crazy. He's the one who posted the evaporation
rates I used. When he responds to this he always says something like,
"The HCN evaporates much faster than what you claim", as he has done
here. Has he ever come back with anything quantitative? No. He keeps
using terms like "much faster rate".
	Mr. Keren says he has cited Dr.Gerhard Peters "and others" to
prove the "lies". Does he direct anyone to the material? No. Does he
include it here? No.  In fact there has been recent discussion about
this Peters' report being written in German and not translated yet.
Does Keren have it? Who knows.

>What do you hope to accomplish, by reposting your lies over and
>over again?
>
>A short time ago, you wrote about the outgassing time of HCN from
>Zyklon:
>
># Maybe it is six hours. Maybe it could be days or even months.

	That is correct. I also said it could be 50 years, going by a
foot note in a report in Nizkor files that states traces of cyanide
can still be found in Zyklon B specimens at the Auschwitz Museum. What
Keren didn't bother to mention, or purposely omitted is that I
committed a statement to what I thought the release rate would be for
most of the HCN in Zyklon B, which was and is 1 1/2  to 2 1/2 hours. 

>You simply have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the
>above. A range given from "six hours" to "months". 



>Moreover, if there was some HCN residue in the Zyklon when the
>victims died, it was rather easy to handle: the sonderkommando
>used gas masks in some of the gas chambers, while in others a
>very simple mechanism was used, which allowed to extract the
>Zyklon from the chambers after the victims died, thus solving
>the alleged "problem" of dealing with the HCN the Zyklon may
>have continued to release.

	Keren's absolute statement here comes from his pet eyewitness
testimony, which is held in low esteem, even by the curator of the
Auschwitz Museum, Franciszek Piper and the German government, among
the forces within the Holocaust camp itself.

>Can you *really* not understand all this? After so many times?
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

	When is Keren going to commit himself to posting some of the
particulars he only refers to without posting the actual substance?
What is he afraid of? Why does he constantly use terms like "even
faster rate" instead of more definitive time frames? He keeps saying
he has all these reports, so whats the problem? 

	Mr.Keren, why don't you post all your stuff you say you have on
the release rate of Zyklon B, and then we can go from there.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:14 PDT 1996
Article: 53708 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's Scientific Breakthrough Saves World! (Re: for th
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:14:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <31fa164d.938668@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f614a6.1448866@news.pacificnet.net> <4t5qb2$t8c@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4t94qr$mok@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  <4tcs0j$l5n@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Jul 1996 17:50:08 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>
>># It is good see physical law was different in those years.
>
>>They were not different. But different carriers release the
>>HCN at different speeds. The speed also depends on the
>>thickness of the carrier.
>
>	Quite correct and the vermin type with the wood pulp carrier is as stated.
>You numbers have proven that already.  
>
>># Perhaps when there a translation of the complete document 
>># available there will be something to ignore.  
>
>>The relevant part was translated. It states that after an 
>>hour, or at most two, there was no detectable residue of HCN 
>>in the carrier, and this at very low temperatures.
>
>	That is what you folks said when you claimed the Degesh Publication supported
>your position.  And then I posted it.  And it turned out it contradicted your
>position.  
>
>	You lied then.  
>
>	You have no credibility until the entire document is posted in English.  

	Oh, I see your having the same problem with Keren over here as to
these referred to reports, patents and manuals that he keeps alluding
to without actually posting the stuff itself.



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:15 PDT 1996
Article: 53709 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. souirce goes bye, bye
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:47:57 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <31fa1c2f.2444986@news.pacificnet.net>
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 wrote:

>Subject: Re: Star Jewish pop. source goes bye, bye
>From: tom moran, tm@pacificnet.net
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:49:12 GMT
>In article <31f61a8b.2957491@news.pacificnet.net> tom moran,
>tm@pacificnet.net writes:
>
>>The Holocaust dedicated have some things to say about the claim that
>>there were 3,000,000+ Polish Jews. For their methods of responding
>to
>>the challenge of these numbers, see alt.revisionism, "3,000,000
>Prewar
>>Polish Jews?"  
>
>Let me save the uninitiated readers the trouble by repeating
>the contents of one of the postings on this question.
>
>"Der Landesweite Zensus von 1921 zaehlte 2.829.456
>polnische Juden.
>......
>Zwischen 1921 und 1930 emigrieretne mindestens 284.200 
>Juden, doch trotzdem wies das Ergebnis der Zaehlung von 
>1931 eine juedsiche Bevoelkerung von 3.132.581 Menschen aus."
>
>R. Ainsztein "Juedischer Widerstand im deutschbesetzten Osteuropa
>              waehrend des Zweiten Weltkrieges"
>             Bibliotheks- und Informationssystem der Universitaet
>             Oldenburg,  1993, p. 30
>
>Rough translation:
>
>"The national census of 1921 counted 2,829,456 Polish Jews.
>....
>At least 284,200 Jews emigrated between 1921 and 1930. Nevertheless,
>the census of 1931 resulted in a Jewish population of 3,132,581
>persons."
>
>d.A.

	We can recognize this as a more significant response compared to
the others under, '3,000,000 Prewar Polish Jews?'. But then we should
have to look at these sources to see what route was taken to arrive at
the figures. As it appears, any information here seems to have been
taken from a source written in 1993. 
	At least Ibokor recognizes "one of the postings" under '3,000,000
Prewar Polish Jews?' as standing out against the others, which we
might assume he recognizes as not within the same ranks of what he
posted. 

	 Argumentum ad ignorantum:
     "An argument purporting to demonstrate a point or to persuade
people, which avails itself of facts and reasons the falsity or
inadequacy of which is not readily discerned;(or available for
validation), a misleading argument used in reliance on peoples
ignorance", (or inability to access any references cited as showing
proof).

	The facts, going by Holocaustic accounts, is that Poland had 4 or
5 times the Jewish population than all the rest of Europe put
together, with no explanations of why this would have been, especially
when Poland was not in the forefront of economic opportunity, which
Jewish population concentrations show they gravitate to.
                  ------------------------------ 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:15 PDT 1996
Article: 53744 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:35:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <31f9fef7.228597@news.pacificnet.net>
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Trust Li'l Tommy!  I think he _thinks_ he's being *clever* - and this
is about as clever as Moran ever gets, folks.  Of course, if he ever
learned how to follow a thread - and/or developed the reading
comprehension skills and knowledge of grammar that every 10-year old
kid has - poor Li'l Tommy would find out very quickly that, on a scale
of 1 to 10, his *cleverness rating* is probably somewhere in the range
of 

hro
Hilary Ostrov


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:16 PDT 1996
Article: 53750 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 11:39:32 GMT
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Lines: 35
Message-ID: <31f9ffd1.446210@news.pacificnet.net>
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Moran responding to a flurry of chemical equations Mr.Green posted:

	"Again for Mr.Green with his little imputs but no relevance
stated. For the fourth time in this thread I will ask Mr.Green for the
relevance. Mr.Green, do you have a continuation to show what relevance
there is to the topic of cyanide traces at Auschwitz today and its
evaporation rate with your above?" 

Mr.Green's response to the request for him to show the relevance:

	"Mr. Moran made an argument that makes no sense whatsoever and I
pointed it out.  If the topic is irrelevent, that's the fault of Mr.
Moran for making an empty and irrelevent argument.  I was merely
pointing out the emptiness."

Regards,
Rich Green

	The most Moran can make out of Mr.Green's statement here is, he
is saying he posted something "that makes no sense whatsoever", that
it was "empty and irrelevant", in order to show Moran's "emptiness".

	
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Richard J. Green                                Dept. of Chemistry
>rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                          Stanford University     
>http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud        Stanford, CA 94305-5080
>	"Remember the days of yore,
>	"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
>		-Deuteronomy 32:7



From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:17 PDT 1996
Article: 53751 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Logical Conclusion
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 12:02:40 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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Message-ID: <31fa04c3.1711737@news.pacificnet.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31f78864.5556817@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) said:
>
>>	
>>	Whenever any articles and/or exachanges are posted on a format like a
>>Interent newsgroup it should be recognized that they are also directed to
>>whoever reads it, the random reader, even though any exchanges may be
>>between particular parties.
>
>Thank you for this gem, Mr. Moron.  Those of us who have been around for a
>time would never have figured this out.
	
>Gord McFee

	If you figured it out, how come you keep posting idiotic ravings?






From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:17 PDT 1996
Article: 53758 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tell it to Teuffel Piet, l'il tommy
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 13:56:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

	As to this part of YFE's rage,

>	Apparently l'il tommy thinks Jacob Neusner is a rabbi.  Apparently l'il tommy 
>	--YFE

	The article was and is signed  "Rabbi Jacob Neusner is a
professor of religious studies ..."

	As to the rest ... it's pure YFE.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 11:59:18 PDT 1996
Article: 53759 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another rabbi interpretation
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 14:08:18 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	What this post shows in addition to it's contents, is the ready
accommodation Jews get to put their diatribes into our major medias.

	If the goyem world, American, Palestinian, Arab and others had
the same accommodation to give their side of the story, U.S.
acquiescence to Jewish causes would cease abruptly due to popular
demand by the 98%.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sat Jul 27 12:41:32 PDT 1996
Article: 37127 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Wiesenthal Center (Canada) and the Ostrich Syndrome
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:55:44 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:340 alt.politics.white-power:37127

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article , 
>schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>
>>I'd venture to guess Ken McVay is more like me: a masochist. Otherwise HOW
>>could he ever wade through the Giwer-garbage each day?
>
>Ah, but that's where you've erred - I _don't_ wade through it
>- it is deleted from my reader's spool before I get into the
>newsgroup. Actually, there are two lines in the KILL file; the
>first archives the troll's stuff, the second kills it, along
>with Moran's. Makes for a peaceful morning.


	McVay, how do you respond, which you do, if you don't read the
post you're responding to?


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 08:07:29 PDT 1996
Article: 53938 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Mr. Keren also ignores this aspect
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:16:03 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:53938 alt.bible.prophecy:1967 alt.christnet:85234 alt.religion.christian:104938

bud  wrote:

>Daniel Keren wrote:
 
>> This is an outright lie on your part. Leuchter himself
>> states very clearly that there are cyanide residues in the
>> gas chambers; you obviously have not read his report.

I personally don't know what Leuchter's qualifications are, but it is
evident he did some test at Auschwitz. Keren says here "Leuchter
himself states very clearly ..." that there were cyanide traces found
at Auschwitz, seeming to use Leuchter himself as a reliable source. 

Keren did not add that the traces Leuchter found were based on
Prussian blue stains, which Holocuast sales people point out when
convenient.



>From  Bud:
>After the trial, and in response to Fred A. Leuchter's report, in 1990 
>the Auschwitz State Museum commissioned the Krakow Forensic Institute to 
>carry out an investigation of the alleged gassing sites at the camp.  The 
>results of the testing of brick and mortar samples fully corroborated 
>Leuchter's findings:  they found either no or very small traces of 
>cyanide in its samples.  However, the institute stated that it could not 
>be assumed whether or not cyanide traces can be detected after 45 years 
>of being subjected to the weather and the elements.
>-- 
>"The judgement of history depends on who writes it"  (Richard Nixon)

I could not find the "Crackow Institute for Forensic Studies" in any
library source. I wrote the Auschwitz State Museum for information on
this report and never received word back. I didn't even get the
certified mail receipt back.

The amounts of cyanide compounds found by the study of the "Institute"
were, at the highest, for any Crema, 500 micrograms per kilogram, or
00005 of one gram per thousand grams. No test have had done to
surrounding soils or test to other sub-terrainian structures to see
what was there for control/comparison tests.

HCN is a byproduct of the coke production process. Billions of tons of
coal have been converted to coke decades before WWII and decades
after. Thus we can assume that these HCNs from this source alone where
emitted into the atmosphere, converted to other cyanide compounds and
distributed to the ground by rain fall ("acid rain") not to mention
combinate possibilities for the components of HCN that could form from
natural processes.  


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 08:07:30 PDT 1996
Article: 53939 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tell it to Teuffel Piet, l'il tommy
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:16:38 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. d) wrote:


>	Apparently l'il tommy thinks the reaction by Jews is somehow unique to 
>Jews.  Perhaps l'il tommy should contact the Rev. Franklin Sherman, director of the 
>Institute for Jewish-Christian Understanding at Muhlenberg College.  The reaction of 
>this respected minister and educator was:
>
>	"Christians are not morally prepared to make such statements . . . . It's 
>indecent after Christian civilizations have been responsible for centuries of Jewish 
>persecution."

	YFE has cited one example of an idiot who cowtows. One example
out of hundreds of millions.

	As to moral integrity, heres a little exam for the YFE.

Israel kills little children as a matter of policy. The Jewish state
blows up their houses. The Jewish state bars them from medical
attention. The Jewish state defies U.N. resolutions. The Jewish state
rouses hundreds of thousands of people with bombs. The Jewish state
has a number of their genetic agents here in the U.S. posting their
stuff in our medias telling us how good it all is for the world and
the U.S. Judaism is a racist movement founded on genetic
considerations. The Jewish state and or their patriots here in the
U.S. are not in position to make moral judgement on anyone.   

>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 08:07:31 PDT 1996
Article: 53944 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: So much for eyewitnesses.
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 14:46:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:


Initially I was going to just let this rest and leave it up to the
reader to distinguish if what Mr.VanAlstine concludes from his
analysis of the lead article is correct and to what extent his post
has, for denying what is said in the lead post. Since I plan to repost
this in the future and to include Mr.VanAlstine's critic in with the
post I will format it and comment on it now.


>Yet again, Moran graces us for the umpteenth time, in true denier fashion,
>with another repost exampling his duplicity in selective quoting and the
>intentional distortion of what was actually written to mislead the unwary:

	First off Mr.VanAlstine shows his aggravation with the dreaded
repost. This seems to be an extra sore spot for the Holocaust sales
team on alt.revisionism. They have a hard time understanding that
these posts are not put out for them. They should have no problem. I
post, they respond.
                     =========================
The repost, VanAlstine's response, Moran's counter response:
                        
>> According to Franciszek Piper, curator of the Auschwitz Museum
>> in Poland, prisoner and SS eyewitness testimony is unreliable.

>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper actually stated that
>"[because of the difficulty these prisoners had in gaining access to
>information and the inevitable distortions that occurred when the data
>were analyzed and transmitted, these reports are marred by serious errors,
>discrepancies, and contradictions" and that "[d]espite the considerable
>accuracy in certain details, the figures quoted by resistance sources must
>be considered cautiously because they lacked access to aggregate figures."
>(_Anatomy_,p.66,63.) 

	Well this seems no more than what I included with the exception
of the part about "resistance forces" not having access to figures,
which does not apply to the other referred to.

>What this means is that such testimonies are not to be wholly discarded,
>as Moran would have us believe, because they were unreliable; but that the
>limitations of such testimonies and estimates, due to the circumstances,
>must be "considered cautiously" because, as Dr. Piper also states, such
>testimonies had "considerable accuracy in some details." 

	Mr.VanAlstine says that I would have all and any testimonies
"wholly discarded" when in fact I pointed out, "at least in regard to
numbers" and  "In respect to the numbers ..." in commenting.

>> In his "Number of Victims", Chapter 4 in "The Anatomy of the
>> Auschwitz Death Camp", he covers the course of events and
>> considerations involved in arriving at the revised Auschwitz figures. 
>>
>> It seems the revisers held little esteem for any eyewitness
>> testimony, at least in regard to numbers, be it prisoner or SS
>> functionary, discounting it all in favor of deportation records from
>> various countries.
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that "...it
>is the testimony of Rudolf Ho"ss, Auschwitz's commandant from 1940 through
>1943, that draws special attention of scholars. Ho"ss is considered a
>credible witness because he also supervised camp affairs for the SS
>Economic-Administrative Main Office in 1944. Furthermore, he returned to
>Auschwitz briefly to oversee the extermination of Hungarian Jews.... His
>most important testimonies were at the Kaltenbrunner trial before the
>International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg and later, after he was
>extradited to Poland, before the Polish authorities. 

	Since I don't have the book right now, I will only include here,
that Mr.Piper did make a point about some unreliable nature of Rudolph
Ho'ss' testimony. 
	The quote included by Mr.VanAlstine, "Ho"ss is considered a
credible witness because he also supervised camp affairs for the SS
Economic-Administrative Main Office in 1944" does nothing to verify
Ho'ss' testimony as reliable. As Mr.VanAlstine will get around to,
below, Ho'ss retracted that which Mr.VanAlstine cites and much more.
Some Holocaust books make comment on the unstableness of Ho'ss, and
some consider him to have been insane.

>"On April 15, 1946, Ho"ss's certified testimony was read during the
>Kaltenbrunner trial. 'According to my calculation,' he stated, 'at least
>2.5 million people were put to death, gassed, and subsequently burned
>there; in addition, 500,000 people died of exhaustion and illness, which
>gives a total of three million victims. That figure constitutes 70 to 80
>percent of all Auschwitz prisoners...' Later, in a conversation with
>psychiatrists G.M. Gilbert in Nuremburg and in testimonies given in
>Poland, Ho"ss repudiated these figures, claiming he had received them from
>Adolf Eichmann, who had been head of the SS Office of Jewish Emigration. A
>more accurate estimate, he reported, was 1.13 million, based on his
>recollection of the extermination of Jews from particular countries. The
>figure is almost identical to the number of Jews deported to Auschwitz, as
>established by this author..." 

	So here we have the "certified testimony" turning out to have
been contrary to what he would come to say later. For some reason the
authorities had Ho'ss visiting a psychiatrist.
	I don't know what records Mr.Piper had to study or how he went
about deciphering them. I don't know if the full package used by the
curator of the Auschwitz Museum is available to public scrutiny. I do
know that they were incomplete and therefore would require special
interpretation.	

>"Since the Ho"ss testimonies, researchers have accepted figures from Ho"ss
>that ranged from one to three million--depending on how reliable they
>consider his testimonies to be.

	We can see here that Piper mentions that Ho'ss' testimony is up
for grabs, being up to the individual researcher's personal opinion of
whether or not he was lying.

> It is unclear from Ho"ss's Nuremburg
>testimony whether the number he gave for those killed in the camp pertains
>to the period of time of his tenure as camp commander or the camp's entire
>existence. As a result, some scholars add to Ho'ss's figure the number of
>victims during 1944, mainly the 438,000 Hungarian Jews deported to
>Auschwitz that year." (_Anatomy_,pp.64-65.)

	"Some" scholars think this, some think that. Scientific
conclusions are not left up to what people conclude on a personal
nature. If the evidence is so prone to personal interpretation, then
we should be looking for more concrete evidence. 

>> In respect to the numbers, Piper referring to the deportation
>> records states, "Before these records were discovered, researchers had
>> to rely on discrepant and impercise data from testimonies and
>> depositions from witnesses, former prisoners, and Nazi functionaries
>> and on court decisions and fragmentary and incomplete records of camp
>> registries, archives, and other institutions".
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that
>"[d]espite the accuracy in certain details, the figures quoted by the
>resistance sources must be considered cautiously because they lacked
>access to aggregate figures. Similar objections may be raised regarding
>figures quoted by prisoners not affiliated with any underground
>organizations in the camp. Even prisoners employed as scribes in camp
>offices had access to a limited number of records. For the most part,
>these records pertained to registered prisoners, not to the mass
>transports so critical to estimating the number of deportees and victims.
>The figures quoted by individual prisoners rely mostly on numbers of
>autopsies and on information overheard from SS men or other prisoners. The
>most significant fact in the prisoners' reports and communications is that
>mass extermination continued incessantly." (_Anatomy_,p.63.) 

	As to the credibility of testimonies the most Mr.Piper cares to
summarize is that the one thing they had in common was a story of mass
extermination. My personal experience with individual testimonies is
that they fail to support each other in most respects, and, even in
most respects, contradict each other.

>> Here Piper even includes "court decisions" as part of that
>> which is held in low esteem.
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper only specifically
>mentions the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission (1945), The Polish
>Commission (1945 and 1946), and the Supreme National Polish Tribunal in
>Poland (1947) as making definitive conclusions as to the death toll at
>Auschwitz. The inaccuracy of the estimates for the number of people
>murdered at Auschwitz by these agencies has been well documented and known
>by historians for decades. Just as significantly, Dr. Piper stated that
>the "International Military Tribunal in Nuremburg did not address the
>question of how many persons were killed at Auschwitz."

	First I will point out that only the last sentence is a quote and
the rest is Mr.VanAlstine's. He implies here there should be some
significance to the trying bodies mentioned. Mr.VanAlstine has a pet
peeve, or fear, about who is to blame for the old numbers said have
been killed at Auschwitz, and aims to lay the blame on the Russians
and Poles, even claiming that this number has been viewed as
inaccurate for decades. This is one of the major themes of the
Holocaust promotional network, to divert the blame over to the
Russians and Poles in order to lead anyone from getting the idea it
was somebody else who perpetuated the old numbers, only revised
publicly from 4,000,000 down to around a 1,000,000, just in the last
few years.
          
	Mr.VanAlstine says;
"The inaccuracy of the estimates for the number of people
murdered at Auschwitz by these agencies has been well documented and
known by historians for decades."

	We will see that Mr.VanAlstine will muster up Reitlinger to show
this is fact, when in real facts, in spite of what Mr.VanAlstine says,
many books and pamphlets have been written since the date of
Reitlinger's book, all claiming considerable more exterminations than
Reitlinger's estimate or the present day, currently accepted number.

	Mr.VanAlstine's only quote in the whole paragraph, after
fingering the Russians and Poles, is "The International Military
Tribunal in Nuremburg did not address the question of how many persons
were killed at Auschwitz" implying this Tribunal was more honest.
	I find it interesting that the Tribunal did not announce any
numbers, if Mr.Piper is correct in stating so. 
	  

>> He goes on to say the testimonies held "inevitable distortions
>> and were "marred by serious errors, discrepancies, and
>> contradictions".
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that
>"[d]espite the considerable accuracy in certain details, the figures
>quoted by resistance sources must be considered cautiously because they
>lacked access to aggregate figures." (_Anatomy_,p.66,63.) 

	We will notice we are now talking exclusively about resistance
fighters. I believe there is a considerable record of the various way
out claims resistance fighters gave and not held as true today. As to
the "considerable accuracies in certain details" that's all we have.
Whether or not the details involved figures or other accounting is not
clear. What the details are we don't know. They could be accurate in
identifying the camp as a prisoner camp, it's location, what the
industry was near and associated with it, how many German troops were
there, etc.

>Again, what this means is that such testimonies are not to be wholly
>discarded, as Moran would have us believe, because they were unreliable;
>but that the limitations of such testimonies and estimates, due to the
>circumstances, must be "considered cautiously" because, as Dr. Piper also
>states, such testimonies had "considerable accuracy in some details." 

 Pasted from above;	
     Mr.VanAlstine says that I would have all and any testimonies
"wholly discarded", when in fact I pointed out, "at least in regard to
numbers" and  "In respect to the numbers ..." in commenting.

	Perhaps Mr.VanAlstine is taken with the title "So much for
eyewitnesses". I can see how he could get that opinion. Next time I'll
post this under a different title, something more exact, even though I
hold most of the eyewitness testimony I have seen in low esteem. I've
personally witnessed what Mr.Piper refers to as  "discrepant and
imprecise data from testimonies and depositions from witnesses, former
prisoners, and Nazi functionaries and on court decisions and
fragmentary and incomplete records of camp registries, archives, and
other institutions" concerning all sorts Holocaust topics.

>> Among the few examples Piper identifies as perpetrating the
>> questionable testimony is the number one star witness for the
>> Holocaust story, Rudolph Ho'ss. 
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that
>"...Ho"ss is considered a credible witness because he also supervised camp
>affairs for the SS Economic-Administrative Main Office in 1944.
>Furthermore, he returned to Auschwitz briefly to oversee the extermination
>of Hungarian Jews..." and that Ho"ss repudiated his earlier estimate of
>those killed at Auschwitz because he "received them from Adolf Eichmann,
>who had been head of the SS Office of Jewish Emigration" and then offered
>"a more accurate estimate... [of] 1.13 million, based on his recollection
>of the extermination of Jews from particular countries." This estimate,
>according to Dr. Piper, is "almost identical to the number of Jews
>deported to Auschwitz" he established himself.  

	Well we covered this before, so I will only point out that
Mr.VanAlstine says Rudolph Ho'ss was a credible witness because he was
the commandant of Auschwitz yet there is considerable commentary on
his sanity and contradictions. 

>> Under a bold heading "Investigating and Prosecuting Agencies and Tribunals" 
>> Piper does a quick run down on the erroneous findings of these bodies
>and even 
>> does similar comment under "Scholarly Publications".
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that these
>bodies were the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission (1945), The Polish
>Commission (1945 and 1946), and the Supreme National Polish Tribunal in
>Poland (1947). The estimates from these bodies have discounted by
>historians almost immediately after they were made. 

	Here again we can see Mr.VanAlstine is finding the agencies
involved as relevant. He repeats and even escalates his initial claim
"for decades" that "historians" have been aware of the lower numbers,
here saying "almost immediately after they were made". I might as well
point out again that for the most part the numbers given by any
"historians", pamphlets, books and newspaper articles in the ensuing
years were more in tune with what these Russian and Pole judicial
bodies gave at the time.

>> Piper comments along the way, "Yet several factors now prompt
>> historians to attempt to verify widely used figures, including the
>> scientific demand for objectivity in the study of Nazi crimes."
>
>Of course, Moran fails to include that Dr. Piper also stated that "[in]
>_The Final Solution_, one of the first books to deal with the Holocaust,
>published in 1953, the figure of four million was radically reevaluated.
>English historian Gerald Reitlinger estimated the number of victims of
>Auschwitz to be roughly 800,000 to 900,000, based on an analysis of the
>losses of Jews reported by specific countries as well as by his study of
>extermination records. Since then, other estimates lower than the figures
>quoted by the Soviet and Polish commissions have been advanced, especially
>in Western publications. These estimates have ranged upwards from one
>million." (_Anatomy_,p.61.)

	I like Mr.VanAlstins's wording here. "Since then, other estimates
lower than the figures quoted by the Soviet and Polish commissions
have been advanced, especially in Western publications" instead of
saying that many "estimates" since then, have cited figures way higher
than Reitlinger's.
	Reitlinger is always the only author the Holocaust promotional
network cites as lower numbers, when in fact they are aware of the
many that came after him to give much higher numbers.  
 
>Obviously, Moran has failed to include much of what Dr. Piper actually
>wrote because if he had his pathetic attempts of deception would have been
>readily exposed for what it is: blatant distortion, lying by omission, and
>the willful misrepresentation of Dr. Piper's work in an effort to further
>his psychopathic need to smear the Holocaust and its victims. 

	Whatever the real numbers, 300,000 to 5,000,000, the one thing
that can be verified with massive documentary evidence is that it
wasn't and isn't the Russians and the Poles who have perpetuated the
Holocaust story and whatever numbers and methods it possesses today.

                                                        Tom Moran


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 08:46:45 PDT 1996
Article: 53950 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numbers Racket one day, next day boolean
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 15:11:54 GMT
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>
>: 	Then one day, the New Jersey State Lottery, already enacted,
>: became operational. That day the Numbers Racket came to a screeching
>: halt.
>
>(With a certain amount of trepidation)
>
>Do you have any evidence that the Numbers Racket stopped when government
>lotteries began?  I was under the impression (admittedly from anecdotal
>evidence) that government lotteries did not stop numbers rackets because
>government "Daily Numbers" pay off at 500:1, while illegal numbers rackets
>pay off at 700 or 800:1.

	The illicit numbers racket paid 600 to 1. I don't know what the
government pay off is. I do know the legalized lottery knocked out the
numbers racket almost instantaneously.
>
>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
>truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"



From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 12:41:04 PDT 1996
Article: 53967 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Declaration Of Deficiency
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:28:14 GMT
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	They who refuse to debate, oppose debate or stifle debate,
declare they don't have the will, the substance or the guts to meet
the challenge. It is a sign of cowardice.
	It is tacit declaration they know they would lose, that they
don't have faith in their position, that they know deep down inside or
are consciously aware their own position sucks. 
	This applies to any of those persons and groups that oppose free
open discussion on the Holocaust. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 12:41:05 PDT 1996
Article: 53969 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: They took my spoon.
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:24:35 GMT
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	    "Proof of Suffering Is Price of Holocaust Repartition"
                     L.A. Times, June 4, 1996

(Sub header)
"Soviet Jews: Survivors tell of indelible horrors. But for many,
documenting them to qualify for aid is impossible." 

	"One can still hear the smack of the scythe smashing against her
head. Denting her skull ..." How much is that bitter taste worth?
..One can still feel the panic that swamped him as he stood in line,
waiting for the killers to get to his row. ...
	How much?
	How to quantify the indescribable? How to calculate the
unimaginable?
	How to compensate victims for the horrors of the Holocaust?
	Fifty-one years after Nazi Germany crumbled, those questions
haunt a dwindling group of Holocaust survivors.
	Most of their fellow survivors have long since received some
compensation -- not enough to erase their torment, of course, but
enough to cushion them through old age. The German government has paid
more than $60 billion to victims of the Nazis since WW II, and is
paying more than 130,000 survivors lifetime pensions--a commitment
that will cost another %20 billion over the next few decades.
	...
	...More than 90,000 Soviet emigrants world wide have applied for
this last chance to receive German pensions.
	...
	Perhaps the toughest requirement demands that survivors prove
their persecution with official documents--not eyewitness
testimony--before receiving pensions.
	When the Nazis stormed through a huge swath of Soviet territory
.. they left behind detailed but disorganized records, said Radu
Iaonid, director of the registry of survivors at the Holocaust
Memorial Museum in Washington.
	The conquering soldiers might, for example, have jotted down that
they confiscated two silver teaspoons from Jew X ...
	....
	These days, negotiations have only gotten harder Jewish leaders
say. Memories of the war have faded. And Germany struggles with a
shaky economy, a disgruntled work force and unpopular cuts in social
programs. 
	...
	'The claims Conference' ... is not giving up'" 

                           ____________

	In a accompanying photograph is a Si Frumkin standing tough and
holding up his Star of David from his chain, a person who has had at
least 20 letters to the editor of the L.A. Times published, most often
justifying anything Zionist.

	The number of existing Jewish survivors is put at 130,000 which
is what remains of the "dwindling amount". Maybe we could say this is
less than half of those who said they were survivors. After all it is
50 years later and many of those must have died which would put the
number of survivors originally at over 260,000. Adding this to the
90,000 now applying we have 350,000.
	What constitutes a "survivor"? Well going by this report, anyone
having so much as a spoon confiscated is a surviving victim.
	Special note should be taken that the criteria for applying for
the money is not to be founded on "eyewitness testimony."
	It seems the German government is getting sick and tired of the
demands. And the "disgruntled" work force is not in any mood to have
their funds given over to some phony cause.
	Could it be the Jews will drive the population of Germany into
the revisionist energy? Could be. The Jews seem to always drive their
demands to a intolerable saturation point.
                             ____________	


	The focus of this article is on the Jews who have emigrated out
of the Soviet Union in the last few years. This all started after the
Jews began to assert wide scale "anti-Semitism" in that country. Of
the twelve major profiles done on individuals, not one account was
offered as to any incident they suffered, instead focusing on how
brilliant they are. As to the general accounts of the alleged
persecution, not one single account. 
	The whole thing with the flare up of the Soviet persecution began
after a number of articles, letters and columns complained of the Jews
being out populated by Arab birth rate in Israel proper.
	The whole thing was a lie.
	Hundreds of thousands of these Soviet Jewish emigres came to the
U.S. where they are now collecting U.S. pensions and saturating
convalescent facilities. 
	In a recent article in the Santa Monica daily newspaper, Outlook,
it went on about the 600 dollars a month the local population of
Soviet Jews is receiving was a hardship and not enough. The article
cited that 500 of them in the town were receiving this amount. 
	Santa Monica is a town that has hundreds of unemployed homeless
crouching for shelter in all sorts of nooks and crannies. Most of them
have to go through hell to get even a few dollars.
	The U.S. at one time refused special trading status to the 
Soviet Union founded on the allegations of anti-Semitism. While we
boycotted this nation on the grounds of the lie other nations moved in
to do trade that was denied America, the same thing that happens when
we boycott other Zionist enemies.
	Billions upon billions upon billions of the peoples hard earned
tax dollars going over this. America - Germany, nations of slaves to
lies.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 12:41:06 PDT 1996
Article: 53970 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: STUPID GERMANS
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:35:54 GMT
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	This is a list of various claims by the Holocaust story. As the
accounts suggest, some real wacky decisions and acts took place by the
Germans. If the following list of accounts are true then the Germans
were stupid. But then again, if the following statements are not true,
then whoever alleges them must be the stupid ones. Either way someone
has to take responsibility for the following.

I.
According to Brian Harmon's report presented to the group
under "Cyanide, Zyklon-B & Mass Murder" posted by Mc Vay, the Germans
built two of the crematoria gas chambers under ground so the SS could
get on the roof to pour in the Zyklon B.
	

II.
	According to the Holocaust story, instead of building chimneys
right in the immediate proximity of the furnaces for evacuation of the
flaming residue from raging coke fires, and availing of the long and
widely known principle of draft and chimney design, the Germans built
them 20 to 40 feet away so they would have to install underground
flues from furnace to chimney. Of course since heat rises this setup
would necessitate the need for some sort of mechanical assist like
heat resistant blowers to draw the smoke and hot ash first down into
the ground or cellar (take your pick), and then through the connecting
flue(s) to the chimney.

III.
	According to Holocaust facts, the Germans had murdered 2 million
at Treblinka, but not before they had buried hundreds of thousands
then realized they better dig them up and cremate them and then rebury
any remains. This same thing happened at Auschwitz. Now, whether the
Germans started to bury bodies at Auschwitz after they had already
started to dig them up at Treblinka would be contingent on Holocaust
dates.

IV.
	According to the Holocaust story, the Germans built
Crematorias II and III right at the end of the rail spur that went
into Birkenau. The buildings are said to have been located on each
side of the tracks about a hundred yards or so away. This would make
sense. By reducing the area the victims would have to cross there
would be less chance of the rest of the swarming camp from seeing what
was going on, even though the facilities were in plain sight according
to some Holocaust facts. 
	We can give the Germans credit for building the first two
right by the rail facility, but then it could have just been an
accidental quirk of luck, because they went on to build Crematorias IV
and V clear over on the other side of the camp, requiring transport
and/or marching the people by the thousands on a day by day regularity
all the way over from the rail facility, across the open fields, past
barracks and the bathhouse.
	
V.
Instead of incorporating the portals for the introduction of
the Zyklon B while constructing the specially built killing chambers,
the Germans first poured the concrete ceilings solid over a grid of
iron re-bar and then realized they had no way of getting the pellets
into the chamber. 

     (In all fairness, I must offer some dissent against any claims
the Germans were stupid, there could have been some reasons why they
went about it so ass backwards.)

                    _____________________
        
John Morris:
"There are any number of reasons why the holes would have been cut
after construction. Now, you may wish to believe that the Nazis
were stupid for not thinking of the holes while they were
constructing the gas chamber, but others of us are willing to
accept that they were reasonably good in practical matters."

"It could have been that the Nazis kept the homicidal purpose of
the chamber from the construction engineers."

	But then the Holocaust books like to play up how every one was
zealous for the tasks assigned to them. Especially with the latest
Goldhagen book and A.M.Rosenthal's escalation that 50,000,000 Germans
were involved.
                         ____________________

"It could have been an oversight."

	Okay, the Germans were stupid.
                         ____________________

"It could have been that they realized that throwing Zyklon B
through the door was not very effective."

	This makes sense. They built the chambers, and someone
said 'Heil, how will we put in the Zyklon B, we can't just throw it
through the door, what with all those people crammed in there. We
better cut some holes in the roof like we did at Krema I.	
                        _____________________

"It could have been that they realized that throwing Zyklon B
through the ceiling vent was not very effective."

	Yea, this certainly would have been a problem. You know,
having to push it along with some kind of ramming device through the
maze of ducting. 
                        _______________________

"I just gave five reasons. No doubt others could think of more
reasons, and no doubt you will object that I began each with the
phrase, 'it could have been'. But the absence of direct proof
about *why* the SS did things the way they did is not proof that
they did not do things."

	After all this we don't know who is stupid, but someone has to
take responsibility for the suggested reasons.
         

VI.
	As the Holocaust story has it, instead of using some kind of
gas directly for the much touted well planned, obsessive and foremost
Nazi goal of efficient extermination of millions of Jews, the Germans
opted to use pellets designed for gradual release that just happened
to be laying around for fumigation purposes. 

VII.
	According to the Holocaust story, the Germans had a obsessive
master plan to kill Jews, and the whole thing was planned to keep it
secret. Now how stupid can you get? They went on to carry it out, all
with long trains loaded with thousands of people coming into Birkenau
every day and lined up in the complex waiting to be unloaded, 4, 5, 6
belching chimneys going all day and all night, huge flaming pits out
in the fields, all right in the heart of a labor camp with a hundred
thousand prisoners, in the area of a large civilian population, where
a thousand of them worked at the camps every day and came in ready
contact with the workings of the camp and the camp population.

VIII.
	How stupid can you get. As the Holocaust story has it, the
Germans in their policy to keep the whole thing secret built the
buildings of mass extermination with large double windows running the
full length of the building on both sides.

IX.
	According to the Holocaust story, Jamie McCarthy representing,
the Germans built the Crema II and III gas chambers underground to
keep the victims from knocking the walls down.
	Evidently the Germans finally figured out something else
when they built Cremas IV and V.

X.
	Wow. Now how stupid can you get. As the Holocaust story has
it, the Wannsee Conference was one at which the master plan for the
extermination of European Jews was declared. As it turns out, the
Germans made 30 copies of the proceedings and passed them out for
circulation throughout various ministries. Now is that any way to keep
a secret?  

XI.
	According to the Holocaust story: "The first gassing in
crematorium IV did not go well. An SS man, wearing a face mask, had to
climb a little ladder to get to a 'window,' then open it with one hand
and pour in the Zyklon B with the other. This acrobatic routine had to
be repeated six times." [2]

XII.
	According to the Leleko "interrogation", posted by McVay under
"Holocaust Almanac: Killing System - Leleko 2", the Germans allowed
the prisoners bound for instant death at Treblinka to carry razors and
knives.
	The same testimony expounds how all the people on a day by day
arrival knew right away they were headed for death and there was
always wild mayhem, but nevertheless, the Germans let them bring
knives and razors.  


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 16:30:47 PDT 1996
Article: 54017 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust "Museum of Tolerance"
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:28:53 GMT
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	This is the name of the Holocaust museum in Los Angeles,
California, formerly known as the "The Simon w Museum", or something
like that.
	The unwritten but expressed motto of the "Museum of Tolerance"
is: 'The members of the Museum of Tolerance do not tolerate any
opposition to the contents and conclusions of the Museum of
Tolerance'.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 16:30:47 PDT 1996
Article: 54026 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust final exam
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:22:40 GMT
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Question:
	The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust story
is:

	A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry and malice?

	B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
money. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 16:30:48 PDT 1996
Article: 54028 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Remember the Children"
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:29:08 GMT
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	"Remember the Children" is the most prevalant motto found posted
around the premises of the U.S. Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. It
is displayed on the inside and on the outside.
	This motto "Remember the Children" definetly does not apply to
the Palestinian children who have their houses blown up or are barred
>from  medical treatment, have their food supply threatened, their
schools shut down and have been mowed down by bullets, all by the will
and by the tolerance of the Jewish state of Israel, which itself is
the child of the Holocaust story.


From tm@pacificnet.net Sun Jul 28 16:30:49 PDT 1996
Article: 54029 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Every Day, Yellow School Buses
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 16:29:15 GMT
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				     Every day
		
	yellow school buses line up outside of the Holocaust museums. The
American kids file out and into the interiors of the Ministries of
Love where three fingers are held up and the kids are ask, 'How many
do you see?' The kids shout 'We see three'. The guide says 'No. You
see two'. The kids all yell back 'No we see three'. Then they are
taken through the Ministry of Love, they can't turn around, or roam
around, they have to run the full package. At the end, the guide holds
up three fingers and says, 'Now, how many do you see?' and the kids
all say 'Two'.
	Sort of like what happened to Winston Smith in George Orwell's
"1984" only without the rats being put to their throats. Not quite,
but the school curriculum requires.

	                                    





From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:04 PDT 1996
Article: 54156 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.bible.prophecy
Subject: Re: Luther and the Jews Part 1
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:21:44 GMT
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anny@ix.netcom.com(Annie Alpert) wrote:

>In <31FA8259.1F50@mail.gte.net> bud  writes: 
>>
>>The following is an article that appeared in "The Christian
>>News". 

>Classic straw man -- an attempt to set up a flawed argument that
>can easily be struck down.  Look up anti-Semite in the dictionary 
>--  not ANTI + SEMITE, mind you.  Anti-Semite has a specific
>meaning.  it was, in fact coined in England in the late 1800's by
>a self-professed Jew-hater to describe his feelings.  Webster: a
>person who is hostile to Jews.

	"Anti-Semite" Anyone hostile to Jews,  might be a dictionary 
definition, but going by other definitions of Semite, we could say it
is also one who is hostile to Arabs.
	Annie if you can't accept this, maybe you can give us the term
for hostility to Arabs. "Semite" is a genetic/racial designation, like
Oriental, Caucasian, Amerind - etc. One dictionary definition states
for "Semite" - a person descended from Shem. 
>
>>         TALMUDIC JEWS KHAZARS NOT SEMITES
>>The term anti-Semite when applied to opposition to Jews is also
>>a misnomer because the vast majority of Talmudic Jews today are
>>not Semites.  There are many Khazar (Chazar or Khozer) Jews,
>>Black Jews, Chinese Jews, East Indian Jews, Mexican, Japanese
>>Jews, etc.  According to some authorities the Khazar Jews alone
>>make up over 90% of the Jewish population of the world.  Only
>>the Sephardic Jews are considered to be the descendants of Shem. 
>>According to Benjamin Freedman, a converted Jew, the Khazar Jews
>>are not Semites.  Mr. Freedman in his book, FACTS ARE FACTS on
>>p. 42 quotes the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA in part as follows:  
>
>See above.  Pointless argument.  Judaism is a religion, not a
>race.

	In addition to the above evidence that Semite is a racial
designation, we have to consider why Jews while charging anti-Semitism
will also use the word "racist".
	There are also terms like 'He looks Jewish, or 'He is half
Jewish. There are also certain genetic diseases that Jews can have.
	There is also things like the Jew is a Jew if the mother was a
Jew.
	This is just a small portion of the evidence that could be put
forth to show that Judaism is a racial movement.

>
>Also, Ben Freedman may have been born of parents who came from
>parents who believed in Judaism, he himself and his parents were
>secular Jews to say the least.  Who was Ben Freedman?

	"Secular" Jews is a term that has been used with great frequency
in recent years. Look up "Jew" - "Jewish" in the dictionary, Annie.
How can you be Jewish and "secular" at the same time?

>  
>Benjamin Harrison Freedman was the originator of the
>"Khazar Canard"--a theory that today's Jews are not the
>descendants of the Jews mentioned in the Bible, but rather
>descendants of the Khazars, an Asiatic people who occupied
>Southern Russia during the seventh century, who had
>converted to Judaism. Ironically, he was born a Jew in New
>York in 1890, but openly revealed himself to be a fascist
>and an "honorary Aryan".  When WWII broke out he declared
>himself a supporter of Hitler and predicted Hitler would
>win the war.  
>
>Over the years, Freedman has been a prolific producer
>of anti-Semitic tracts, statements and pamphlets.  Many of
>them have been used by most of the most well-known
>anti-Semite.  I'm sure you've seen them in one form or   
>another.  He considered himself a martyr and bragged "Since 
>the death of Hitler, I am the most hated man in the world." 
>
>   The May 1, 1959 issue of "Common Sense" ("The Nation's 
>  Anti-Communist Newspaper") has four tabloid-size pages    
>  filled with Freedman's story of the "discovery" of the    
>  canard. (Headline: Christians duped by unholiest hoax in
>  al      The Khazar story was the grand passion of his life for
>  many years.  Morris Kominsky (Hoaxers, Branden Press) says
>  he could go on for hours on the subject without time out
>  for a  breath of fresh air.  "Freedman expatiated on his
>  Khazar delusion to a group of seven or eight Congressmen
>  for five hours without surcease."                         
>  l history "Big Lie" technique pushing USA to the brink of 
>  World War III").  This so-called "Anti-Communist" paper   
>  consisted for years mainly of anti-Jewish and anti-black  
>  diatribes as well as anti-welfare tirades.                
>     From Mr Freedman's article:
>     "The U.S.A. Christians continue being brainwashed by
>  the U.S.A. media of mass-communication that so-called "Jews"
>  of throughout the world today are the actual historic
>  descendants of the so-called "Jews" of the Holy Land in Old
>  Testament history.  The U.S.A. Christians have been
>  brainwashed by so-called Jews of historic Khazar ancestry,
>  and by their servile Christian stooges, as they have been
>  brainwashed by them for many years with the unholiest hoax
>  in all recorded history of mankind, betraying the
>  confidence of Christians.
>     "Incontestable facts supply the unchallengable proof of
>  the historic accuracy that so-called "Jews" throughout the
>  world today of eastern European origin are unquestionably
>  the historic descendants of the Khazars, a pagan Turco-Finn
>  ancient Mongoloid nation deep in the heart of Asia, who
>  battled their way into bloody wars about the 1st B.C.
>  century into eastern Europe where they set up their Khazar
>  kingdom...
>     "The "big lie" technique of the unholiest hoax in all
>  the recorded history of mankind brainwashed U.S.A.
>  Christians into believing that Jesus Christ was actually a
>  Jew in the sense that so-called Jews call themselves Jews
>  now to bamboozle Christians."
>       A very good debunking of the canard that 92% of
>  today's  Jews are made up of descendants of a Mongolian
>  tribe comes  from the pen of Dr. V. Orval Watts, a
>  Holocaust denier with  John Birch Society connections.  In
>  the ultra-right wing   "Santa Ana Register" November 6,
>  1963, Watts says:  "There is no more reason for assuming
>  that a Russian  Jew is a Khazar than to assume that an
>  American Episcopalian is a Celtic descendant of King
>  Arthur's Knights."            
>     >
>-- 
>Annie Alpert
>
>"All would be well,
> All would be heavenly--
> If the damned would only stay damned."--Charles Fort, 1919



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:05 PDT 1996
Article: 54163 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:30:23 GMT
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chrisl@minn.net (Chris Lyman) wrote:

>[--Holocaust revisionist crap deleted--]
>
>Leuchter's assertions have been thoroughly and repeatedly refuted
>and debunked.  I have friends who lost family members to the
>Holocaust.

	I'd be interested in seeing the details and documentation of your
friends loses. Did you see any? Did you ask for any? If you don't come
back with the answers, will it mean you didn't ask or didn't get any
of the details and documentation?

> Kindly fuck off and evolve soonestly, O Anonymous Bigot
>of Angry White Hue.
>
>-- 
>Chris Lyman      |     chrisl@minn.net     |     #include 
>  "I got my AmExGoldCard the OLD FASHION WAY, I went from $65
>    in my pocket to a few grand in debt....." -- drieux, just drieux



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:06 PDT 1996
Article: 54182 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:43:44 GMT
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

          "The errors (lies?) contained in this pamphlet would require
an article-length piece to correct, but it is interesting to note that
the stated reason why the DoD should be interested in teaching
soldiers about Holocaust revisionism is because,    

 'A successful fighting force is a cohesive one, one where all members
have respect for each other's diversity and dignity. Holocaust
revisionism has the potential to destroy that respect.'"
                      ====================

	This is an ideal example of "chutzpa".
	Claiming that the morale of the U.S. fighting force is contingent
on it's attitude on the Holocaust. Only idiots would put it forth,
only idiots would accept it.
	Of course it could have some validity. But only in the case of
the U.S. Military establishment attitude on the Jewish state of Israel
and it's will to keep a hostile mind against the enemies of that
Jewish state.

	It also shows to what extent the Jews will go to in order to
minipulate America for Jewish causes.
	It also shows how righteous Jewish clergy are part of the
conspiracy.
	It also shows the obsession Jews have with Jewishness.
	It also shows to what extent the Jews have access and
accomodation to spew their chutzpa.	  


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:07 PDT 1996
Article: 54184 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bible.prophecy,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Mr. Keren also ignores this aspect
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:40:53 GMT
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abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>I personally don't know what Leuchter's qualifications are, but it is
>>evident he did some test at Auschwitz. Keren says here "Leuchter
>>himself states very clearly ..." that there were cyanide traces found
>>at Auschwitz, seeming to use Leuchter himself as a reliable source.
>
>Grah! I can't believe it. This great paladine of revisionism hasn't even
>_read_ the Leuchter report!


	Were does it say I never read the report? Personally I have
stated before that I think it is inconclusive. I posted that under
"Cyanide Traces at Auschwitz Today" along with my critique of the
Crackow Report, of which I said the same thing.
	You read words, then report on what you read right under the
material that your reading on, where your interpretation is not
supported by the text. That's what happens when little boys get snide.
They blurt out. Mindless like.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:08 PDT 1996
Article: 54193 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Code words
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jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>Lenski, Robert.  _The Holocaust on Trial: the Case of Ernst Zundel_.
>Reporter Press, Decatur, Alabama, 1989.
>
>Joseph Burg, an acquaintance of Zuendel's, is on the stand.  He is
>present "to help show Zundel's 'state of mind' at the time he
>published the Harwood pamphlet," circa 1980.  p. 237:
>
>   Burg stated that he and Zundel had often discussed Germany's vast
>   reparations to Israel and Jewry and the effect which Holocaust
>   propaganda was having on German-Jewish relations.  The situation
>   would continue "for another few generations," he had predicted.  Burg
>   was pleased about teaching Zundel to say "Zionist" rather than "Jew."
>-- 
> Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> Hate mail will be posted.

	"ANTI-ZIONISM IS ANTI-SEMITISM". Is that right Jamie? 



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:09 PDT 1996
Article: 54202 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.white-power,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.abortion,alt.christnet
Subject: Re: The Department Of Defense Wants To Censor Revisionism
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:35:15 GMT
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an572010@anon.penet.fi (Vyshinsky) wrote:

	The main topic and motive for the post was the Department of
Defense getting involved with Holocaust revisionism, and we end up
getting the usual trying to divert attention away by focusing on the
Leuchter report's validity, which has nothing to do with validifying
the Department's putting out the pamphlet. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:09 PDT 1996
Article: 54205 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:43:51 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	Imagine, with these hot underground flues running below the
floors of the crematoria, it must have been some pretty hot walking.

Ooch - ouch. 

	What the Holocasut story needs now is one of those 'deus ex
machina' testimonies relating how those in the facilities wore special
high lift insulated shoes.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:10 PDT 1996
Article: 54206 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust "Museum of Tolerance"
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:44:29 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


	This is the name of the Holocaust museum in Los Angeles,
California, formerly known as the "The Simon Wiesenthal Museum", or
something like that.
	The unwritten but expressed motto of the "Museum of Tolerance"
is: 'The members of the Museum of Tolerance do not tolerate any
opposition to the contents and conclusions of the Museum of
Tolerance'.

	The Museum of Tolerance, represented by their top officials, is
on record as not tolerating any negative talk about Zionism.


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:11 PDT 1996
Article: 54207 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:44:51 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

	This article focuses on the alleged ducting system for Crema II. 
However, Cremas III, IV and V are said to have had the multiple fire
chambers, thus all would require a extensive exhausting system, which
if there were any, they should still be available for easy
archeological discovery. 


From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 14:08:12 PDT 1996
Article: 54218 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tell it to Teuffel Piet, l'il tommy
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:36:24 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>	As to this part of YFE's rage,
>
>>	Apparently l'il tommy thinks Jacob Neusner is a rabbi.  Apparently l'il tommy 
>>	--YFE
>
>	The article was and is signed  "Rabbi Jacob Neusner is a
>professor of religious studies ..."
>
>	As to the rest ... it's pure YFE.

	The rabbi, Jacob Neusner again, got another accomodation. This
time in the N.Y.Times, 7/29/96, letter to the editor, "Jewish
Studies", having his say about a recent and ongoing controversy about
Jews complaining about the appointment of a goyem to head a department
of Judaic studies at a N.Y. college.



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 21:05:42 PDT 1996
Article: 54259 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:06:28 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <31fd1528.12385477@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fcce16.2494748@news.pacificnet.net> 
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>
># Imagine, with these hot underground flues running below
># the floors of the crematoria, it must have been some 
># pretty hot walking.
>
>Are you claiming the furnaces, or flues, were underground?

Incredible, Keren ask for clarification on something that is right
there, "... flues running below the floors".

"Flues", Keren, "flues".

Those which are the topic of the lead article here.   

Random House Dictionary
"flue; 1. a passage or duct for smoke in a chimney  2. any duct or
passage for air, gas, or the like, 3. a tube, esp. a large one, in a
fire boiler".

Now what?

 


>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Mon Jul 29 21:05:43 PDT 1996
Article: 54260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post your forensic studies here
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:08:05 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 17
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References: <31f0ccc5.321695@news.pacificnet.net> <4st9c5$f8@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4stnga$bp3@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <31f3cd41.19228748@news.pacificnet.net> <4t5m8k$nh7@shiva.usa.net> <31f77713.1123875@news.pacificnet.net> <4tir6r$p2r@shiva.usa.net>
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <31f77713.1123875@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	Can you figure out what I'm talking about?
>
>If Mr. Moran himself cannot figure it out, what can I do?

Figure out what?

>--
>Harry Katz
>
>He who has no wife is esteemed as dead.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 30 09:08:17 PDT 1996
Article: 54351 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:34:12 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <31fe1d43.382058@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31f78739.5257640@news.pacificnet.net> <31fcce16.2494748@news.pacificnet.net>  <31fd1528.12385477@news.pacificnet.net> 
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
># Incredible, Keren ask for clarification on something
># that is right there, "... flues running below the floors".
>
>What floors? 

	"What floors?"  Paragraph five of the lead post Mr.Keren is
asking about; "... beneath the floors of the building ...". But then
maybe he is responding to the follow up article, which in that case;
paragraph 1. " ... floors of the crematoria ...".  

>I repeat my question: are you suggesting the cremation
>furnaces were underground?

>Yes or no? 

	No. 
Can you show where you got the idea it was stated or even implied the
furnaces were underground?

># Now what?
>
>I don't know. You refuse to answer? You forge another testimony
>and post it, like you did with Prufer's testimony? Who knows?

	"Forge"? 

	Evidently Mr.Keren finds these points and questions about the
alleged underground flue systems to be a real problem for the
Holocaust story.

 
>-Danny Keren.
>
>



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 30 20:36:58 PDT 1996
Article: 54395 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tell it to Teuffel Piet, l'il tommy
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:35:13 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <31fe1d68.418583@news.pacificnet.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>>  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. d) wrote:
>  
>  
>>  >	Apparently l'il tommy thinks the reaction by Jews is somehow unique 
>to 
>>  >Jews.  Perhaps l'il tommy should contact the Rev. Franklin Sherman, 
>director of the 
>>  >Institute for Jewish-Christian Understanding at Muhlenberg College.  The 
>reaction of 
>>  >this respected minister and educator was:
>
>>  >	"Christians are not morally prepared to make such statements . . . . 
>It's 
>>  >indecent after Christian civilizations have been responsible for centuries of 
>Jewish 
>>  >persecution."
> 
>>  	YFE has cited one example of an idiot who cowtows. One example
>>  out of hundreds of millions.
>
>	Unlike l'il tommy who has yet to produce a single one of the 
>"hundreds of millions" (apparently "hundreds of millions" is l'il tommy's way of 
>saying: "me.")  Where are they l'il tommy.  So far they haven't come forward.  
>Rev. Jay Rock, director of the office of Interfaith Studies of the National 
>Council of Churches agreed with Rev. Sherman.  Another is Cardinal O'Connor, 
>archbishop of New York.  He authored and issued a statement condemning the 
>Southern Baptist proclamation.  He felt so strongly about it that he asked the 
>Lutheran bishop of New York and the Episcopal bishop opf New York to join 
>him.  They did.

	Okay, there's about five altogether. Where did you get the
information? 

>	But I really must thank you. l'il tommy.  As a result of your post I gave 
>Rev. Sherman a call.  A rather nice fellow and, as it turned out, very concerned 
>about raving lunatics such as you.  He expressed an interest in Nizkor and, 
>after checking it out on the Internet, called me back.  He would like to 
>contribute to it.

	Send his phone number and I'll give him a call. Send his address
if you have it. I'll send him some of your stuff. You know. That which
shows you to be a coward that can't back up his charges, and "Just ask
for Rachelle, the one that shows you be a liar, and, "I will ... this
weekend" that shows you to be a coward and a liar, and, "Moran finds
Mr.Edeiken's e-mail" where you admit to being a coward and a liar.

	When Moran calls someone a coward and a liar, he presents the
evidence.  Poor Mr.Edeiken. Too bad he can't do the same.

>	That's why Nizkor believes in free speech. l'il tommy.  Every time you 
>open your bigoted, lying mouth you make converts.  For the other side.
>
>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 30 20:36:59 PDT 1996
Article: 54420 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tell it to Teuffel Piet, l'il tommy
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:36:13 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <31fe1dd2.524808@news.pacificnet.net>
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
>
>  
>>  	The rabbi, Jacob Neusner again, got another accomodation. This
>>  time in the N.Y.Times, 7/29/96, letter to the editor, "Jewish
>>  Studies", having his say about a recent and ongoing controversy about
>>  Jews complaining about the appointment of a goyem to head a department
>>  of Judaic studies at a N.Y. college.
>
>	Oddly enough l'il tommy forgot to mention that Prof. Neusner is identified 
>not as a rabbi but a University Professor by the New York Times.

	Who said he did sign this one as 'rabbi'?

>	Oddly enough l'il tommy forgot to mention that the letter was in *support* of 
>a non-Jew chairing such a department.


	Is was? I couldn't make anything out of it. Can you point to
anywhere I made any statement in the regard?

>	Oddly enough l'il tommy will now not deny that he is an anti-Semite and a 
>liar.

>	--YFE



From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 30 20:36:59 PDT 1996
Article: 54421 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:40:39 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 36
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	This is the first of Moran's commentary after a excursion into
Nizkor files on Belzec, a camp said to be one where 600,000 people
were exterminated, "most of them Jews".


	Fifteen thousand people a day exterminated. 

	The victims shoes were piled in a heap 25 meters high. Over 75
feet. About 6 stories high. 
	How did the Germans get the shoes up to that heighth? It doesn't
say.

	All the victims died standing up from being densed packed into
the chambers. Of course the dense pack is a common denominator of all
Holocaust tales, yet here we have the only accounting of them all
standing up.

	When unloading the gas chambers it was easy to see who the
families were because they were all holding hands. It doesn't say why
the victims didn't all tear and/or bite each others ears and noses off
like reported for Treblinka.	 

	The gas chambers had only doors and a pipe leading in, yet were
prone to constant break down.

	When ever this happened, the victims were taken on a train ride
in cars that had quick lime spread out on the floors. 

	It took 2 to 4 days for them to die.

	"The train" with it's "quivering cargo of flesh seemed to throb,
vibrate, rock and jump as if bewitched". "The train began to move and
sob, wail and howl".

	


From tm@pacificnet.net Tue Jul 30 20:37:00 PDT 1996
Article: 54422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Revisionism-Zyklon's Warning Compound
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:44:35 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>The additive in Zyklon which gave off a preliminary scent was removed by Degesch in 1940, before the so-called extermination 
>program ever got under way, and it had nothing to do with killing Jews.  How do I know that?

How?


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:45 PDT 1996
Article: 54621 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: U.S./U.K. Secret Surveillance of ALL JEWS
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:34:52 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 54
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <4thcni$fo2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
>Charles (joebuck@ix.netcom.com) whines:
>
>	FOR EXAMPLE: the case in San Francisco a few years back when
>	just such a major Jewish organization was PROVEN to have hired a
>	private investigator FOR YEARS to spy on US citizens --
>	committing numerous crimes in the process, as I recall.
>
>	I sure hope someone out there can provide the details of the
>	case as they were revealed in the media at the time the story
>	broke (i.e. the name of the paid PI, the name of the Jewish
>	organization that paid him to spy on American citizens,
>	dates, etc.)
>
>What I remember most about this case, is that the Anti-Defamation
>League cooperated fully with the district attorney and, in the end,
>was not dragged into court.  They merely signed a consent order
>promising to monitor their operatives more closely in the future.
>
>In other words, what they did was wrong, but not enough to warrant
>prosecution.
>
>What happened, by the way, is that one of their operatives was an
>ex-cop and used his ties to the police to look at police files of
>certain individuals and groups.  Everything else they did wes totally
>legitimate.
>
>I also note that in spite of the popular myth that Jews control the
>media, the end result of the case was never publicized, and the most
>damaging reports that appeared at the beginning of the investigation
>were never corrected in light of the end results.  In other words,
>although they were found to be mostly harmless, the public was left
>with an erroneous image much like what Mr. Charles asserts above.

The Final Call - publication of the Nation of Islam, 7/30/96

"Settlement near in ADL spy scandal suit."

"Washington--A class action suit lawsuit brought against the
Anti-Defamation League nearly two years ago, is expected to settle out
of court by consent decree."

What the ethnocenrtrically insane Katz says is the reverse of what he
would be saying if it was the other way around and golem were caught
intriguing against Jews.  

>--
>Harry Katz
>
>Cold water, morning and evening, is better than all the cosmetics.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:46 PDT 1996
Article: 54627 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conflicting numbers
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:19:02 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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References: <4tlbh4$brl@news.icanect.net>
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ccarp@icanect.net wrote:

>Went to the library the other day and selected three books, at random,
>to start my personal investigation of the holocaust.

	Thanks for your post. Keep up the good work. 

                                       Tom Moran


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:47 PDT 1996
Article: 54636 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conflicting numbers
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:20:08 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <31ff6b89.5190247@news.pacificnet.net>
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:
>
>I personally own, bought and paid for 65 books regarding the 
>Holocaust, and a complete collection of books regarding WW-II, which 
>proves nothing except that I read my ass off. Plus I am registered as 
>a Holocaust Witness-Liberator, which also doesn't mean much because 
>the Holocaust was not just one event, easy to understand, even if you 
>want to understand it. The Holocaust in fact was spread over at least 
>eleven years, from the time Germany-Austria decided they had to solve 
>the Jewish problem once and for all times. They did this by mass 
>murder by a variety of means, including gassing millions at Auschwitz. 
>So nit-pick the contradictions all you care to, your doubts prove 
>nothing. There will always be questions as to how many Jews and others 
>were murdered by the German-Austrian Nazis, because no one on earth 
>knows for certain and can prove it one way or another. But to deny the 
>Holocaust happened, because of conflicting numbers, even in the same 
>book, proves only that perhaps the proof-reader did a lousy job.
>
>Chuck Ferree

Poor Chuck.
>
>
>ccarp@icanect.net wrote:
>> 
>> Went to the library the other day and selected three books, at random,
>> to start my personal investigation of the holocaust.
>> 
>> One book states on page 130:
>> 
>>          "The record at Auschwitz was 34,000 people
>>               killed and destroyed in 24 hours, through
>>               continuous day and night shifts."  [1]
>> 
>> The SAME book on page 178 states:
>> 
>>          " ...the Nazi killers recorded the highest
>>               number of victims to be destroyed in
>>               one day: on July 24, 1944, they gassed
>>          and burned 46,000 Jews at Auschwitz."  [1]
>>
>>



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:48 PDT 1996
Article: 54662 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Post-Holocaust Philosophy
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:03:19 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <31ff679b.4184845@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <31FBEE1F.3DE1@compuserve.com>
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"Heinz W. Sternberg" <74656.3332@compuserve.com> wrote:

>I composed a one-page outline of a Post-Holovaust
>Philosophy.  Is this the right forum for a posty
>such as that?
>
>Heinz W. Sternberg

	I'd be interested in seeing it.
                     
                     Tom Moran


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:48 PDT 1996
Article: 54663 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust final exam
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:05:09 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 42
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hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>In article <31fb93ad.8378259@news.pacificnet.net>,
>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) whines:
>
>	Question:
>	The reason the Jews are so avid in bellowing the Holocaust
>	story is:
>
>	A: So that the world will know the horrors of bigotry
>	and malice?
>
>	B: To instill guilt, justify Zionist policies and to extort
>	money. 
>
>Question:  Why does Mr. Moran post this nonsense?
>
>A. Because he has no evidence or proof to use in his attacks against
>Jews.

	It's obvious Mr.Katz has chosen "B". It's also interesting how
Mr.Katz claims a simple multiple choice question is "attacks against
Jews".

>B. Because he cannot tell the difference between evidence or proof
>and Jew-baiting.

	Interesting unsupported conclusion.

>C. All of the above.

	Most multiple choice questions when using this option also
include 'None of the above'.
>--
>Harry Katz
>
>He who blames others is full of blame himself; and the fault he sees in
>others may be seen in himself.
>	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

	Mr.Katz forgot to include, 'Excluding any blaming by himself and
Jews, of course'. Who are the biggest blamers in our society?


From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:49 PDT 1996
Article: 54664 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hunter.premier.net!news.cais.net!news2.cais.com!news
From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conflicting numbers
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:23:55 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <31ff6baa.5222983@news.pacificnet.net>
References: <4tlbh4$brl@news.icanect.net> 
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Right, these numbers conflict.
>
>The first two are certainly overestimates.
>
>But, we have estimates for the number of Dresden
>victims starting at 25,000 and going up to 500,000.
>
>We have estimates of the number of victims of
>Stalin's persecutions ranging from 0.5 million
>to 50 million.
>
>So, what in earth are we going to do? 
>
>Do tell us, "revisionist scholars", what to do
>when confronted with conflicting numbers.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

Poor Keren. He always brings up Dresden to nix the Holocaust
exaggerations, falacies, and contradictions.

Keren says, "Do tell us ... what to do when confronted with
conflicting numbers?" 

The answer should be, 'doubt, deny, be suspicious'. 



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:50 PDT 1996
Article: 54667 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: conflicting numbers
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:26:27 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Right, these numbers conflict.
>
>The first two are certainly overestimates.
>
>But, we have estimates for the number of Dresden
>victims starting at 25,000 and going up to 500,000.
>
>We have estimates of the number of victims of
>Stalin's persecutions ranging from 0.5 million
>to 50 million.
>
>So, what in earth are we going to do? 
>
>Do tell us, "revisionist scholars", what to do
>when confronted with conflicting numbers.
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

Poor Keren. He implies we should be suspicious when it comes to
Dresden numbers, or those he cites for Stalin's victims, but when it
comes to Holocaust numbers ...?



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:51 PDT 1996
Article: 54671 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:38:10 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
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rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

>In article <31fe1de3.541560@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:
>
>>         This is the first of Moran's commentary after a excursion into
>> Nizkor files on Belzec, a camp said to be one where 600,000 people
>> were exterminated, "most of them Jews".
>
>Why do you keep referring to yourself in the third person ?

When it's 'convenient'. Why do you keep writing in the zero person?

>[mindless attempt to deny the Holocaust removed - see original article]



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:51 PDT 1996
Article: 54672 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is, and what ain't
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:52:34 GMT
Organization: Posted via CAIS Internet 
Lines: 36
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
># dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>
>## I repeat my question: are you suggesting the cremation
>## furnaces were underground?
>##
>## Yes or no? 
>
># No. 
>
>Ok. Now, are you claiming the flues ran under the floor?
>
>What floor? 
>
>Are you saying the flues were lower than the furnaces? 
>
>
>-Danny Keren.

Why don't you just tell us about any flue system, Mr.Keren, Professor
Keren, former Professor Keren and/or former impersonating Professor
Keren?

"What floor?"

It's obvious you are devastated by the points of the post. 

Keep in 'mind' the meat of the post. The alleged flues system that is
said to have carried away the burn off of the five raging coke
infernos, the heat the system must have given off, and the need for
heat dissipation.

 



From tm@pacificnet.net Wed Jul 31 13:59:52 PDT 1996
Article: 54673 of alt.revisionism
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From: tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor's BELZEC - more goofy stuff
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:25:19 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing 
>at Belzec
>[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
>Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

	I see you have just merely posted some more of your eye-witness
testimony Mr.Keren, but none of it seems to have any relevance or
answers to the points of the post. Why is that?

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