The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/mcclelland.fergus/1996/mcclelland.1296


From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Thu Dec  5 05:47:05 PST 1996
Article: 83857 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: an thought of interest
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 01:33:16 GMT
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schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>WhoKnows@dot.dot
>>
>>         There was some white power type who was legally attacked and lost
>> to one Morris Dees based upon his actions in incited race hatred
>> although he refrained from direct advocacy of violence.  

schwartz@infinet.com (Monica the Monitor)

>Sara
>
>
>And by the way, it's "A" thought of interest, not "an" thought.

Yes. And in real English a picture is hung but people are hanged. It
has always been so, and yet you always get it wrong. 

 You're not that perfect after all: are you Monica?





>And it wasn't very interesting either.

I thought it was.

Thank you Mr Who Knows.

Fergus McClelland

>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       George Washington, 1796



From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec  6 17:44:41 PST 1996
Article: 84140 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: `Racism' in Australia
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 01:33:19 GMT
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schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

snips

>Once again, Mr. Giwer is lying. Mr. Giwer has been removed from (at least)
>three ISPs for violating THEIR rules.

Not this again Miss Prefect!

As has been exhaustively discussed already, we outsiders do not know
all the details of all the events concerned. A great deal of
speculation and claims from supposedly injured parties. No proof of
anything. We are not privy to ANY of the ISP logs etc, nor do we know
the numbers of complaints or the names of all the complainants. Who
mail bombed whom? Who cares? You are being hopelessly partisan,
accepting all that is said by one side and nothing from the other.

>People who have been harassed by him have complained, as is their right to
>do. People who have NOT been harassed by him have not complained.

Lie lie lie lie lie. Your favourite word and most frequent posting
habit. 

You complained about Mr Giwer to Gate Net. NOT because of your
allegations that he has sworn at you but because you don't like him.
Kevin Philan complained to Gate Net because HE doesn't like Mr Giwer.
Dene Bebbington complained to Gate Net and I doubt that Mr Giwer had
even noticed his existence at the time.  Are you now claimed some
"injury" that you forgot in the long thread on this subject only a few
weeks ago - in which you stated why you wanted him off?

>No one wants to silence Mr. Giwer.
No one wants to silence him? No one wants to silence him?  How much
more wanting to silence him can YOU get? What a bloody liar you are!


>He's the best friend those us us opposed to Holocaust denial have 
>ever had, and the biggest embarassment to the 
>deniers. 
On the contrary, many of his posts are extremely thought provoking and
eloquent. They certainly upset you often enough. There is no doubt in
my mind that he does the "deniers" as you call them, a great service
by pointing out many of the idiocies of "The Holocaust {TM}".

>I encourage him to post more!

Well said! I for once agree with you.

By the way, glad you have realised that the Jews did not build any
pyramids - now all you need to do is realise that the Commandments
were not Jewish, that the original of Moses was NOT a Jew and that
Noah was not a Jew either, or even real. I shall be posting on this
subject soon.



>Sara
>
>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       George Washington, 1796

I suppose that the Founding Fathers had no say in the matter? Anyway,
Washington was English and the "race" is known for tongue in cheek
humour in opposition to the blindingly obvious. I shouldn't take this
off the cuff quip too seriously if I were you. 

Fergus McClelland

P.S.
Pagans sometimes worship trees. As Mr Blackmore suggested, you should
read about St Boniface and his arrival in Germany.








From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 10 05:43:05 PST 1996
Article: 84733 of alt.revisionism
From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: `Racism' in Australia
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 00:32:00 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland) writes:

># As has been exhaustively discussed already, we outsiders do not 
># know all the details of all the events concerned. A great deal of
># speculation and claims from supposedly injured parties. No proof 
># of anything.
>
DKeren
>Not true. We know, for instance, that Giwer sent an e-mail bomb
>to Ken McVay, 

WE do not know this. It has been claimed. Are you as sloppy in your
Holocaust evidence appreciation as in this? IT HAS BEEN CLAIMED that
Mr Giwer sent an e-mail bomb. However, this claim has been refuted by
Mr Giwer.

>and that this was the reason netcom gave him the
>boot. 

WE do not know this either. Unless "we" are given proof, we never will
"know" this. Perhaps if someone in authority at Netcom were to post a
statement in this group giving the reasons for the termination of
service we would know. I say "perhaps" because "we" would have no way
of checking the facts. That is why there is a vast legal system in
developed countries - precisely because the truth about ANYTHING is so
hard to pin down. Even then, after being found guilty, many an
innocent man has been hanged - "the Truth" not coming out until later.

You seem to have a simplistic view of things when it suits you.


DKeren
>Mr. McVay posted the URL with the mailbomb that Giwer 
>sent him.

Anything posted by Mr McVague, the ephemeral agent or representative
of Swizzkor, (itself seemingly the servant or agent of a synagogue)
has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Here you are saying that we have
been provided with "proof" by the injured party. The proof being in
the form of a computer communication. Mr McVague is a "computer man"
is he not? Also, evidence from a party in an action is not
disinterested. For all I know, McVague Is a computer!

DKeren
> Giwer admitted to having sent it. Good enough for you?

Apparently he does not. See his follow up to your posting in this
thread. What he has asked you for in the form of evidence for the
claim you are repeating would be most welcome. Obviously, it would
place little or no strain upon you to provide it, considering the
strident advocacy of your allegations.

Me
># You complained about Mr Giwer to Gate Net. NOT because of your
># allegations that he has sworn at you but because you don't like
># him.

DKeren
>That is your assumption.

Come on Danny, I think you have to agree that it is more than an
assumption that SS (alias Monica) does not like Matt Giwer. (Mind you,
strictly between ourselves, I think she rather fancies him - strikes
me as the type of old-fashioned gal who likes to be dominated by her
man. That's why she makes such a fuss, she wants to draw his attention
to her. Obviously, this is made worse by the fact that Mr Giwer is
playing hard to get).

DKeren
> An objective person would conclude that
>she - and others - complained because Giwer forged articles to
>make them appear as if other posters to the group wrote them.

What I said above was in response to Monica's claim that only people
who had been harassed by Mr Giwer had complained. For you to give a
different reason for complaining proves my point. People DID complain
who had NOT been harassed. And, I am of the opinion that it is the
amount of complaints that caused the termination, rather than the
alleged activities of Mr Giwer. I'm afraid that it is the old story of
saying something often enough and loud enough that it becomes accepted
as truth. Except that it never actually becomes true.

DKeren
>For instance, he forged articles to make them appear as if I
>wrote them. He put "dkaren@world.std.com" in the author field,
>in a lame and infantile attempt to defend himself from
>complaints, as my real e-address is "dkeren@world.std.com".

What? Do you mean that without the spelling mistake that "he" would
have got away with it?
However, more to the point: Do you consider it an act worthy of
termination of service?

Me
># No one wants to silence him? No one wants to silence him?  

DKeren
>No. People want him to stop forging and to stop sending e-mail
>bombs. Is this so hard to understand?

What makes you think that I don't understand such a desire?

># How much more wanting to silence him can YOU get? What a 
># bloody liar you are!
>
>You're the bloody liar here, old chap.

How? No lies from me me old mucker.

DKeren
> Now, if you care about
>freedom of speech, tell us why Giwer sent mail to my ISP,
>demanding to close my account and threatening that he (my
>ISP) will be bombed with e-mails if he doesn't?

I cannot tell you why Mr Giwer did, or did not, do what you state
here. Mr Giwer must answer this for you, and indeed, he has. See his
reply to this thread.

Me 
># now all you need to do is realise that the Commandments
># were not Jewish, that the original of Moses was NOT a Jew 
># and that Noah was not a Jew either, or even real.
>
>Oh, no! Please! Fergus, you can't do this to us! Please!
>Have mercy on us poor Jews... PLEASE!!
>
> :-)

Danny, there are other groups who believe all that you know - the
Christians and the Moslems. Rest assured , you are not alone in your
mistaken beliefs. So get off your knees Danny - it's so unlike you.
Where's all your usual: "Natzi wannabee apologist scum stuff?" Go on,
call me a Nazi, if it makes you feel better. I won't mind honest, much
better than seeing you grovel.



Fergus McClelland


>
>-Danny Keren.



From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 11 06:35:03 PST 1996
Article: 84944 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: BEGINNING OF THE END!
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:14:28 GMT
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The following is a report in the Financial Times published in the UK
dated 10th December, 1996.

__________


"  ISREAL LOBBY GROUP SETBACK

Opponents of the American-Isreal Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)
yesterday hailed a court ruling that could make the pro-Israeli lobby
group subject to federal election campaign regulations. The opinion by
the US Court of Appeals in Washington reversed a finding by the
Federal Election Commission that AIPAC was not a political
organisation. 

If the commission acts on the ruling, AIPAC will have to make regular
reports on its contributions to the election commission and limit them
to no more than $1000 (609UKP) per candidate. In an 8 - 2 decision
yesterday the court said the lobby group qualified under federal law
because it gave contributions of more than $1000. 

"This decision is the beginning of the end of the stranglehold that
the Israeli lobby has had on US Middle East policy," said Mr Richard
Curtiss, a former US Information Agency official. He was one of six
individuals whose law suit against the election commission led to the
ruling. the FEC could appeal against the decision to the US Supreme
Court.
			------ Reuter Washington. "
 
"Alles was ist, endet..."


Fergus McClelland





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 07:05:26 PST 1996
Article: 85925 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not Only The Jewish Pyramids But...
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:31:01 GMT
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Sara Schwartz, (affectionately known as Monica the Monitor for her
stalwart defence of "Netiquette") who calls herself perfect, has the
odd flaw. 

As all will know, she thought that the Jews built the Pyramids. When
challenged she caved in and with her usual grace and modesty admitted
that she was abysmally wrong.

Next, she wished someone to have measles in Dutch while trying to wish
them well. Again, when challenged, she confessed to her slight error. 

Now to the point.

Sara loves her sig. files, and until recently used:
I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."  Which she ascribed to
Samuel Butler. Now this seems very plausible, until you discover the
fact that Samuel Butler quoted it in one of his books, "Notebooks,
Truth and Convenience. Falsehood IV." In other words, he was quoting
someone unnamed, he did NOT say it himself.

Her latest sig. says that George Washington said: "The government of
the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the
Christian religion." This attribution is completely false. It is in
fact from a book called "Treaty With Tripoli" published in 1796 and
the author is unknown.

Now all this from this groups leading anti-revisionist makes you think
- don't you think?

In future "Monica," rem, si possis recte, si non, quocunque modo don't
you think?

Fergus McClelland

















From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 16 07:05:27 PST 1996
Article: 85926 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irish Potato Famine
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:31:03 GMT
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tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>
>	
>	Dear England,
>
>	My great great grand father told my great grand father, that his
>great, great, great grand father had told someone that he had
>deposited some money and gold in the Bank of England in 1493. I
>believe the amount was said to have been about 3 million pounds. I
>figure with interests this amount should come out to about
>$90,000,000,000 and I as the lone survivor am seeking restitution.
>    As you know, England has a long history of anti-Pattyism and I
>believe you should fork over the full amount as to the calculations.
>Don't force me to get a whole bunch of Patties together and make a big
>stink about your history of anti-Pattyism.
>                                                       Moran 


Dear Sir Thomas,
I was very sorry to hear of your plight and being duly authorized by
England to deal with this matter I must ask that you produce a few eye
witness statements as to the original deposit, just as a matter of
form. A minor point, the Bank of England wasn't actually incorporated
at that date, but don't let this tiny detail deter you from your
claim. After all, we did give a country to some wandering group of
vagabonds about half a century ago on less evidence than you have so
far provided! 
During my initial investigations of your family's horrendous
sufferings I discovered that one of your great, great, great etc
grandparents, Perigrine Pontius Pilatus Moran, was knighted for his
extraordinary bravery in defence of his King and the realm. This
knighthood was unique, in that it is hereditary.  You will therefore
be pleased, I am sure, Sir Thomas, to know that you should henceforth
always be correctly addressed by your title, as should ever have been
done.
I beg to remain Sir,
Your most obedient servant,

Fergus McClelland








From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 18 08:19:20 PST 1996
Article: 86428 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dresden
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 23:04:25 GMT
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>On 14 Dec 1996 04:39:12 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>
>>>   kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
>>>  On 10 Dec 1996 22:44:25 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
>>
>>>  >	Perhaps the criminal Giwer does not, but his ISP does.
Kurt Stele
>>>  Prove that Giwer has been adjudicated a "criminal."    Innocent until
>>>  proven guilty, Yalie-poo.  I thought you were a lawyer?  Maybe you
>>>  lied about that one too.

Yale Edeiken:

>>	No. 
It is really hard to believe that you are conected to law in any way
whatsoever.

>> I need only prove that the criminal Giwer has violated the criminal 
>>laws.

This is true. But it must - by sheer definition - be proved in a court
of law. As a close friend and leading UK barrister said to me
yesterday, "One can CONSIDER someone to have committed a criminal act,
but he is NOT a criminal until he be so JUDGED."

>  he has done so.  He has, in fact, admitted to the acts which are violation 
>>of the criminal laws.  

You may say this, but he has not been so judged in a court of law.
I think it very important for you to remember, and I cannot emphasise
this too strongly, that you saying that Mr Giwer is a criminal is NOT
the same as a judge or a jury FINDING him a criminal AFTER A TRIAL.
There has been no such trial, therefore, strictly speaking he is NOT a
criminal. And for you to say so, is silly or at best an opinion, of no
greater objective value than, say, Mr Stele's when he says that Mr
Giwer is not.

>>I suggest you consult a real lawyer instead of the criminal 
>>Giwer.  You know, the bum who hasn't even the guts to file suit against against 
>>someone he claims is defaming him.

But you keep saying that Mr Giwer has committed criminal acts against
you, yet you have not filed a complaint. Is that not the same?




Fergus McClelland


From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 19 16:01:22 PST 1996
Article: 86810 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.rel.christian,alt.polics.white.nationalism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Judaism is not Religion of U.S. government either!
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:33:00 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:86810 alt.politics.white-power:52593

Doc Tavish <"tavish@phoenix.net"@phoenix.net> wrote:

>How many times do we have to see such anti-Christ drivel as this? If
>someone is critical of Jews then they are automatically branded as
>anti-Semites so- going by the same fair ground rules reciprocated we can
>only assume the following is anti-Christ drivel.
>
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on
>the
>Christian religion."
>       George Washington, 1796
>
>Let me elaborate:
>
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on
>the
>Jewish religion of Judaism however it was founded by people of the
>Christian religion and the oath of office is not taken with a hand on a
>Talmud volume."
>	Doc Tavish, 1996
>

Doc, I have posted on this very quote before. It is NOT correctly
attributed to George Washington. It is, in fact, from a book called
"Treaty With Tripoli" published in 1796 and the author is unknown.

Incidentally, the regular user of the incorrectly attributed quote
above, previously used another incorrect attribution to her old sig.
file.
She quoted Samuel Butler as having said:
 "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."  
Now this seems very plausible, until you discover the fact that Samuel
Butler quoted it in one of his books, "Notebooks, Truth and
Convenience. Falsehood IV." In other words, he was quoting someone
unnamed, he did NOT say it himself. Such is the way of "Monica the
Monitor", alias Sara Schwartz.


Fergus McClelland




From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 24 08:25:58 PST 1996
Article: 87990 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!perdrix.demon.co.uk
From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi replies to a War Criminal
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:48:29 GMT
Lines: 39
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References: <32A2CDAA.7C19@rio.com>  <32b3499e.21753265@news.gte.net> <32b5d53d.68984454@news.micron.net> <594k77$nbk@access5.digex.net> <32b7379c.89334851@news.micron.net>
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kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) wrote:

>On 16 Dec 1996 17:58:47 -0500, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P.
>Stein) wrote:
>
>>In article <32b5d53d.68984454@news.micron.net>,
>>Kurt Stele  wrote:




>There were 16 million Jews world-wide according to the distinguished
>Jewish statistician Dr. Arthur Ruppin.  The Bonn government received
>3,375,000 Jewish claims for restitution.  5.5 - 3.3 = 2.2  million at
>most, of all causes.

Is it known, Mr Stele, how many Gypsies. homosexuals, Jehova's
Witnesses etc made claims for and received restitution from the Bonn
government?

 


>Rather the response you present is close to worthless.  Let's see the
>exact breakdown as I asked for, even with whatever "sources" you wish
>to use, shall we?
>
>Kurt Stele
>
>"All truth passes through 3 stages. First, it is ridiculed.
>Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as
>being self-evident." --- Arthur Schopenhauer 
>

Fergus McClelland






From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 25 14:32:38 PST 1996
Article: 88160 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!usenet.logical.net!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!perdrix.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail
From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the latest on Yale the Whale
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:35:01 GMT
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unterdreckenfuehrer@nizkook.org (Inveigh the kenneth) wrote:

>	I have to admit this took a while but here is the final scoop.
>
>	This YFE who complains about his family being harrassed is not
>married.  He has no family.  Besides that, he is not even jewish.  
>
>	The folks in Allentown know him as one who is constantly moaning
>about his lost family in the Holocaust.  Yet they know that his family
>has been in the area for over a century.  
>
>	His mother, deceased, was a Quaker.  She married Amish and remained
>with the community while Yale left it at 15.  Yale was baptised at 12
>and took the given name Ezra.  
>
>	His father is still alive but refuses to speak with him, having
>disowned him for leaving the commuinity under as yet undiscovered
>circumstances.  
>
>	Beyond that, more to be reported as the information comes in.
>Remember, holohuggers, this is your YFE whom you know and love.  
>
>

Never mind all that! IS HE CIRCUMCISED?????


Fergus McClelland






>	
>=====
>If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
>---
>Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.



From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 25 14:32:39 PST 1996
Article: 88404 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: "Hall of Shame" - Documented Hate Speech on the Internet
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 18:35:38 GMT
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Dok Tavische  wrote:

>The following is material submitted to me by my colleague in the
>Bavarian Alps of Germany. My Colleague is better known as Doktor
>Tavische. He is very concerned about the rising tide of "hate speech" ,
>small mindedness, and bigotry he sees on the Internet.
>
>I usually say: "Drum roll please maestro", but this deserves a full
>trumpet fanfare.
>"Trumpet fanfare please maestro..." Now to the Hall of Shame- Nizkooks &
>Goons
>
>--------------------------------------





>-----------
>
>How many times have we heard these same phrases oft repeated folks. The
>same old strategy and party line: "When you don't have any answers-
>insult, insult, insult..."
>
>Danke Schoen Doktor Tavische
>
>Doc Tavish   American Branch Says "Auf Wiedersehn"


thanks Doc,
I didn't realise it was that bad! When you hear it so often it becomes
like water off a duck's back - it's only when someone strings a few of
them together as you have done that you realise that the heart of
these obscenities is the penis.

Now, I have a theory, and I must admit I have posted along this line
before aimed primarily at one person, (which I regret) so this time I
will make my point in more general terms. 

As you know Doc, at the age of eight days, most Jewish boys are
ritually circumcised. This is not a decent medical procedure but
involves a man hacking the foreskin (this is a bit of a misnomer as it
is really flesh containing millions of specialized nerve endings, and
the frenar band which is not repeated anywhere else in the body). off
the glans of the penis. As, at birth, the prepuce is attached to the
glans, this man has to pare it away with a sharpened thumb nail - just
like peeling an orange. before he hacks it off. As you can imagine,
the glans is left a bleeding mess. This is traumatic enough in that
the young boy suffers intolerable pain the memory of which in all
probability remains with him for life as it is claimed that the
subconscious forgets nothing. However, this may not be the worst of
the psychological damage of the event. For, when, at a later age, the
child realises the full enormity of the ritual he will learn that this
man filled his mouth with wine and took the boys bleeding penis into
his mouth and sucked the blood away. It could be said that this man
was making a meal of it! 

Now, my theory is that no man, with this knowledge in his head, can
fail to have some sort of penile fixation. It may come in many forms -
homosexuality, misogyny, paranoid dislike of others who have not had
this tortuous procedure inflicted on them. 

I cannot believe that the psyche of the Jewish man is not affected in
any way by this barbaric ritual mutilation. At the very least, he must
feel degraded and abused in a sexual manner by this man - as well as
physically inferior. What do you think Doc?

"Alles was ist, endet..."

Fergus McClelland





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 25 14:32:40 PST 1996
Article: 88482 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: STRANGE E-MAIL FROM DANNY KEREN
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:28:28 GMT
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In this message, it is necessary for me to re-insert parts of my
previous posting. This is because Keren has removed them as they are
inconvenient to him. This is because he is unprincipled. Look for " >"
 to show the replacements. By his cuttings, he attempts to make me
look secretive - lying by omission - a common habit of his..
===========================================

Subject: Re: STRANGE E-MAIL FROM DANNNY KEREN
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 02:42:32 -0500

redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland) writes:

>Danny Keren
>Ah, grumpy old Fergus. Still mad at losing Palestine to
>dem Jooooos are you?

# Not at all, remember that Britain GAVE it to them. 
> It was not LOST, it was GIVEN. Charity for the impoverished. (I think that it should have been paid for though.).

Keren
No, it was taken from Britain. 

Me
By whom?

Me previously:
# It was not LOST, it was GIVEN.

Keren
You lost it, old chap. I realize you find it hard to face
this fact. The great empire (TM) is gone. Why can't you
accept it? 

Me
We had this out months ago. Why do you repeat yourself? Britain gave
away its empire. I can accept it. Though it is clear now that we
should never have given the Jews Israel. It seemed such a good and
kind idea at the time. They would have a country, and they would all
go there. That was what was asked for "Next year in Jerusalem..." So,
after all the whining, why didn't you go there?  I think it is a
breach of contract. What are YOU doing in America, the country that
pays for your REAL country's existence. You are taking America for a
perpetual ride. 

Keren
You had your butt kicked, not only in Palestine
but all over the place. 

Me
What by the Irgun and the Hagganah? Dream on little boy, a few
terrorists did not upset the English soldier, or the Empire. Bigger
things made it happen. 

Keren
Were it not for the good old US of 
A, you would be singing the "Horst Wessel" every morning. 
You're the one who should be grateful.

DO you not know Rule Brittania? Britain Never, Never, shall be slaves.
Last invasion,  Anno Domini 1066. 
Anyway, you are not a loyal American, so don't take its proud name in
vain. I know that America had to go into the war for its own reasons,
it was not a question of saving Britain but of protecting American
interests. 


>Danny Keren
>BTW old chap, I found this on dejanews.

>Of course you did. But why were you looking? 

Notice this excision - and the lack of reply to my question. Why WAS
Keren snooping through old postings?

Keren's next excision was his posting of the following:
>  Linda Strong wrote:

>[some snipped - d.k]

Large amount snipped which Keren calls "some".

>  it's soooo good to hear from both Gisela and Fergus.  So Fergus:
>What's *your* problem???  Where've you been??

> Dear Linda,

>[some snipped - d.k]

Another large passage snipped by Keren.

> My problem? unlawful, gainful, employment which CANNOT be
> discussed here:-)

> A thousand blessing on you Linda,

> Love,

> Fergus

>

In all, about 98% was snipped by Keren.

>Did you post the above, Fergus? If so, would you mind telling
>me what "unlawful, gainful, employment which CANNOT be discussed
>here" means?

>Cheers,


>-Danny Keren.

My response was to reply to Keren thus:

>I'm afraid that it is on such a vast international scale that you had better not know.
> All involved only know what they need to - and you don't need to. Really, I am
> being kind in not telling you. The knowledge would be dangerous to you. You
> really should not have even asked. Others now know that YOU know - if you 
>know what I mean. 

As can be seen, I answered his question directly. 
No two ways about it. 
An answer. 
But, like Pandora, he wants the box opened, even if it were to mean
substantial physical harm to himself. His problem is, he doesn't know
to what "unlawful" refers. I may be speaking here of breaking a
Pennsylvania statute by e-mailing "ethnically intimidating" comments
to someone in that state and being paid for it. This is NOT the case,
I am merely using it as an example. Yale Edeiken says that that would
make me a criminal. However, I am in England, so the "unlawful" would
be meaningless here. Conversely, it could be something far, far worse
- in which case I would be hardly likely to confess all to Keren of
all people, in alt.revisionism of all places!

I then asked:
# By the way, was there some sort of implied blackmail in
# your e-mailing this to me and asking your question?

Keren
I also posted it; I thought it would be appropriate to mail
you a courtesy copy. "Blackmail"? I think you're losing it,
Fergus; you're going down the tubes. Getting hysterical won't
help your case.


I have no case to answer you presumptious little fart.
The fact is that you have not e-mailed me copies of any of your
responses to me for months. But suddenly you did - this one. I believe
that you only posted it after you saw my public reply. No point in
your denying it, I won't believe you. I see your little game. It WAS
blackmail, no two ways about it. It is the same as someone asking Tom
Moran how his wife and kids are. And indeed, the people phoning Matt
Giwer's father to ask after his son's whereabouts. It is an attempt to
threaten. Let's not be mealy-mouthed. What you were saying is:
"Fergus, I have information about you - so be a good boy and leave us
alone on alt.rev otherwise I will make trouble for you." There can be
NO other interpretation. No other reason for you sifting through Deja
News. Any protestations from you will be unacceptable. You have played
your hand and now must take the consequences of it. If you ask me if
this is a threat I shall not answer. Time will tell you what I mean.
Suffice it to say that you have made a serious and implacable enemy of
me. If you were older, and wiser, you would realise that it is never a
good thing to have any real enemies.


Keren
Now, you have dodged the question. 

Me
This is a deliberate falsehood.. As can be seen, I answered the
question. 

Keren
An article was posted from
your account. You don't seem to deny you posted it, right? 

I can imagine you sitting there, a Woody Allan of the internet,
threatening with your keyboard, nervously fingering your mouse. You
have already admitted to being terrified of Matt Giwer after he merely
cursed you (NOT threatened you, merely cursed) with napalm bombing. If
that scares you you should not be so aggressive - lest you end up in
permanent terror. You are obviously not the type for combat. You would
not fight for America - or even the country of your heart, Israel. You
are one of lifes permanent office boys, a nonentity now and forever -
something to be used, or dismissed, by all. It is your lot in life. As
Shakespeare said of a cowardly braggart, "he breaks words, but keeps
whole weapons." (Boy - in Henry V., speaking of Pistol).

Keren
The author of that article stated that he was busy with an "unlawful, 
gainful, employment which CANNOT be discussed here".
I understand that you refuse to comment on this? Why? 

As you wrote the above as a response to my REPLY which has been
RE-INSERTED above - this claim of yours that I refuse to comment
doesn't fit the facts. It is a lie. You are trying to display to other
readers that I am being evasive - even though I had JUST replied and
had NOT evaded. It's incredible. You don't like the reply, so you
pretend it did not happen.  You do exactly the same about inconvenient
facts in the eyewitness testimonies you print here.

Keren:
This
is particularly ironic, since you suggested that Jews are,
in general, dishonest. 

Was it a joke? A rather odd joke?

Me
About Pooh Bah? Yes. 

Keren
BTW, it was posted on this group that another active British
"revisionist", Alexander Baron, is currently in jail for
intimidating a witness in a criminal case against him.

Me
I know nothing about the activities of Alexander Baron. I am not an
"active British revisionist". Unless being an unbeliever for the last
6 months or so and posting to alt.revisionism is all that is needed to
qualify. Your opinion is worthless, as are all your rantings from now
on.

Keren:
 Two other "revisionists" who have posted here - one American and
one Canadian - have criminal records and have spent time in
jail (one for a violent assault, one for trying to overthrow
a foreign government).

So? I have no connection to them - I don't even know to whom you
refer. And I don't know if you are even telling the truth. What you
are doing is trying to stitch together a "guilt by association". Say
it Keren, you mealy-mouthed little shit, say what you mean, don't hide
behind that keyboard.

Keren
A "fine" lot you "revisionists" are, Fergus old chap. I guess you
must be proud?

Me
First of all, stop calling me old chap. You are not English, and
cannot succeed at sarcasm. You just look silly, as usual. I am neither
proud nor not-proud of the unnamed, unknown to me people to whom you
refer. I don't know what you are talking about, and I don't believe
you. You are too much of a twisting little liar for anything you say
to be given credence.

Keren
BTW, I'm mailing you a courtesy copy of this article too; if
you want me to stop mailing these copies, please let me know, 
either by e-mail or on the newsgroup.

Me
I don't give a tuppenny fart what you do. Except.....

I now want everybody to know what the original posting was about - and
why I am angry at and disgusted by the revolting Keren.

Many months ago I got into the habit of dropping into certain medical
groups of usenet (as a consequence of my medical contacts), in an
attempt to help some of the sufferers with advice and encouragement.
The posting that Keren came across while snooping on Dejanews, was a
response to one woman about another woman. Both of the women involved
are seriously ill. One of them of them has to receive all her
sustenance through a stomach tube. I shall not detail any more of
their sufferings for the sake of Keren's morbid curiosity. He seems to
want their entrails laid out before him. He will say that he only
wants an explanation of one sentence - but no one sentence can be
taken out of context and make perfect sense in this case. In other
words, he will want one sentence explained, and it will not be. He has
read the entire message and so KNOWS the context of the sentence, the
"flavour" of the entire message. That is why he said:
 
"Was it a joke? A rather odd joke?"

If he believes this, having read the entire thing, it just proves what
a lie, what a cheat, what a calumnious implication his whole posting
was in the first place. Keren stands exposed as a cheat and a liar.
Again. 

He has picked on me, whose aim was to try to help in a small way,
these unfortunate people,  just to serve his twisted, bitter ends. He
doesn't care, he wouldn't go to those groups and try to help, he
would, and has, used the sufferings of others to try to gain some
small point, to elevate himself in his miserable non-productive
existence. The Nizkor tea boy, at his best. 


I would finally comment that the two brave and wonderful ladies whom I
had the honour of making contact with in the medical group are both
American. The most severely ill of the two is a Gypsy - and a Gypsy
saint at that. 

I formally announce my intense hatred for Daniel Keren, and I never
use that word in the light way that it is thrown around in
alt.revisionism. As far as I am concerned, he has kicked these
wonderful ladies in the face by using them. they have suffered enough.


If there is a hell on Earth I hope you go there. if there is a hell
after death, I hope you go there too. May you suffer the torments of
life that you deserve.

Now I suppose  I will get "Hysterical, Nazi, anti-semite, bigot" and
all the usual honorifics thrown at me which have all been so devalued
on this group. so be it. 


"Alles was ist, endet..."


Fergus McClelland












Cheers,


-Danny Keren.







From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:45 PST 1996
Article: 88866 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.fans.rush-limbaugh,alt.fans.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Doc Tavish unless otherwise noted
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:12:50 GMT
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On 23 Dec 1996 19:14:36 GMT, ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor) wrote:
>>: >Pooh Bah is a character in Gilbert and Sullivan's
>>: >operetta "The Mikado", which is set in Japan, I believe.
>>: >
>>: >The popularity of G&S has led to some of their inventions
>>: >becoming part and parcel of English slang/language/vernacular,
>>: >so that a pooh bah is someone holding several high offices
>>: >simultaneously.

I have lived in Britain  all my life and have NEVER heard anyone
referred to as "a Pooh Bah" for any reason. It is NOT English slang,
though, I suppose, it MAY have been in late Victorian times. Please
post source for your information.

However, the fact that the character is a corrupt and arrogant
nobleman in the operetta who takes on the titles and salaries of many
more honourable top civil servants when they resign does rather remind
me of Jewish behaviour.

And, also from The Mikado, Katisha, (the Daughter-in-law Elect)  -
whom we are told is suitably decayed - reminds me of a particularly
strident Jewess in this group whom we have recently learned is the
"Daughter-in-law EX". Only one guess allowed to each responder as to
whom I allude. Hint, she is a Net Monitor who thinks with her uterus.

Fergus McClelland








From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:46 PST 1996
Article: 88920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!usenet.logical.net!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!perdrix.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail
From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: STRANGE E-MAIL FROM DANNNY KEREN
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 22:25:45 GMT
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rcgraves@disposable.com (Rich Graves) wrote:

Me
>># It was not LOST, it was GIVEN.
Keren
>>You lost it, old chap. I realize you find it hard to face
>>this fact. The great empire (TM) is gone. Why can't you
>>accept it? You had your butt kicked, not only in Palestine
>>but all over the place. Were it not for the good old US of 
>>A, you would be singing the "Horst Wessel" every morning. 
>

Rich Graves
>Who's to say he doesn't?

Jetzt versteh' ich
den stummen Sinn 
des wilden Wortes der Wala:
"Wenn der Liebe finstrer Feind
zurnend zeugt einen Sohn,
der Sel'gen Ende
saumt dann nicht!"
Vom Niblung jungst
vernahm ich die Mar,
dass ein Weib der Zwerg bewaltigt,
des Gunst Gold ihm erzwang.
Des Hasses Frucht 
hegt eine Frau;
des neides Kraft
kreisst ihr im Schoss:
das Wunder gelang
dem Liebelosen;
doch der in Lieb' ich freite,
den Freien erlang' ich mir nicht!
So nimm meinen Segen,
Niblungen sohn!
Was tief mich ekelt,
dir geb' ich zum Erbe,
der Gottheit nichtigen Glanz:
zernage ihn gierig dein Neid!



Fergus McClelland







From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:47 PST 1996
Article: 89067 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: USF education "standards"
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:26:33 GMT
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unterdreckenfuehrer@nizkook.org (Inveigh the kenneth) wrote:

>	Here is a quote from the newly infamous USF site.  
>
>	An Overview of Holocaust Denial
>
>                            By Elizabeth A. Gates
>
>...
>
>The Deniers can peddle their hate propaganda somewhat
>anonymously and reach millions of impressionable people. The deniers
>reach all those people who are looking for someone to blame for their
>misfortune instead of getting an education and taking responsibility
>for their own lives. 
>
>Why is it hard to find and prosecute these deniers? They are hard to
>find because they operate in covert ways. 
>
>
===============================================

Mr Giwer's response.
>
>	Prosecute?  Prosecute?  Prosecute?  
>
>	This person whom USF wishes to give public exposure appears to
>believe it is or should be a crime to be a "denier."  
>
>	Clearly USF is on the forefront of the advocacy of the creation of
>thought crimes. 
>
>	But, in her own terms, the question arises, is it better to have an
>education or to object to prosecution for thought crimes?  Given the
>USF example, I would turn in my sheepskin rather than support any
>prosecution for thought crimes.  
>
>	These folks better learn real soon now that freedom of speech is
>defended at the barrel of the gun be it individuals or government.  If
>they want prosecution, fine, they get deadly response.  All parts of
>the constitution are equal.  Defending against an infringement of
>speech is identical with defending against would be slavers.  They are
>no different in the eyes of the constitution.  	

Now this is what I have always believed America to stand for. I have
always looked upon it as so and was distressed several weeks ago by
the rantings of the Monicas of this world who would seek to destroy or
subvert this very thing that makes America so special.

May America keep its freedom of speech - AT ALL COSTS. 

All you Americans should be proud of it and defend it as detailed so
forcibly above by Mr Giwer. 

All you Americans should fight to regain what you have already lost -
before it is totally gone. As I write I have in mind the news posted
by Mr Moran of a school which was deprived of its seasonal Christmas
tree and given a mark of oppression - a star of David - in
replacement. Imagine a crucifix being imposed on a Jewish school and
you will get the idea.

As I see it the core of your Nation in being slowly eroded - so
please, you true Americans, where is that fighting pioneer spirit? 


Fergus McClelland



>=====
>If history has taught us anything it is that history will be revised.
>---
>Revisionists are sneaky bastards, always relying on facts and figures.



From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:48 PST 1996
Article: 89104 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McClelland's Bible bluffs
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:38:53 GMT
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karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) wrote:

All snipped, please see separate replies THE NOAH MYTH and THE MOSES
MYTH

Fergus McClelland





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:48 PST 1996
Article: 89105 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: THE NOAH MYTH
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:38:45 GMT
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karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) wrote:

>In <32bff3b5.647037@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk 
>(Fergus McClelland) writes:
>
>>And I suggest that you need to learn a little about ancient Middle
>>Eastern history before you next talk about "Moses" being a Levite and
>>"Noah" a part of Jewish (or Hebrew) history, descended from Shem along
>>with the Bible compilers. The next thing you know, you will be
>>suggesting that people take all their knowledge of what happened in
>>WWII from books by Jews - or from books by Nazis!


Charles Power
>The Bible is the best source (which may not be saying much) for
>information about Noah and Moses. It is the closest thing to a
>primary source we have or are ever likely to get.

If there existed a source, or sources, for these people which greatly
pre-dated the Bible and was written, rather than an oral tale - would
you consider it a better source? I assume your answer is yes.
Well, there is or rather there are - several.

NOAH
Ziasudra, (Sumerian. A very late 3rd century B.C. account derives from
a Greek speaking priest of Babylon, Berossus, and is given the name of
Xisuthros or Sisuthros which can only be Ziasudra, although that name
has dropped out of the known Semitic versions).  Atrahasis, ( a late
version written in the reign of Assurbanipal, but first seen in
Babylonian literature in the first half of the second millenium B.C.
In this tale the Flood is only the last of a long list of disasters to
inflict mankind, coming after pestilence, famine and drought - each of
which was designed to exterminate mankind. The description here of the
Flood has so much in common with Tablet XI of Gilgamesh that it seems
that the latter must have been modelled upon it, or rather upon some
lost Middle Babylonian recension), and Ut-Napishtim in the Gilgamesh
Epic, (Tablet XI)

All these versions of the "Noah" character were written long before
the Bible, and lost till the 19th Century.

>From  The Epic of Gilgamesh - spot the differences.

"What I had loaded thereon, the whole harvest of life I caused to
embark upon the vessal; all my family and all my relations, The beasts
of the field, the cattle of the field, the craftsmen, I made them all
embark.
I entered the vessal and closed the door...
When the young dawn gleamed forth,
>From  the foundations of heaven a black cloud arose...
All that is bright is turned into darkness,
The brother seeth his brother no more,
The folk of the skies can no longer recognise each other
The gods feared the flood,
They fled, they climbed into the heaven of Anu,
The gods crouched like a dog on the wall, they lay down...
For six days and nights
Wind and flood marched on, the hurricane subdued the land.
When the seventh day dawned, the hurricane was abated, the flood
Which had waged war like an army;
the sea was stilled, the ill wind was calmed, the flood ceased.
I beheld the sea, its voice was silent,
And all mankind was turned into mud!
As high as the roofs reached the swamp;...
I beheld the world, the horizon of sea;
Twleve measures away an island emerged;
Unto Mount Nitsir came the vessal,
Mount Nitsir held the vessal and let it not budge...
When the seventh day came,
I sent forth a dove, I released it;
It went the dove, it came back,
As there was no place, it came back.
I sent forth a swallow, I released it;
It went the swallow, it came back,
As there was no place, it came back.
I sent forth a crow, I released it;
It went the crow, and beheld the subsidence of the waters;
It eats, it splashes about, it caws, it comes not back."

Translated by Geoge Smith in  1872.



(Extracts from: Jewish History Timeline - by Robert D. Kaiser
Compiled from a number of sources, including books by Abba Eban,
Chaim Potok, and Martin Gilbert.  Thanks goes out to David Levene
>from  the University of Durham for his help.)

3000 B.C.   Ancient Sumerian civilization. [The Sumerians called
their land Kengir, and their language Emegir.]  To the north lies
the Akkadian people.
[...]
2900 B.C.    Sumerian golden age of primitive democracy.
[...]
2600 B.C.    Cheops reigns in Egypt.  Time of Sumerian folk hero
Gilgamesh.

(Please note date, as this is where Ut-Napishim appears - F McC)

[...]
2000 B.C. - 1600 B.C.  Somewhere in this time frame Terah and
his son Abram (later called Abraham) move from the Sumerian city of
Ur to the city of Haran.  Abraham marries Sarai, later named Sarah,
and have two sons:  Yitzchak (Issac) and Ishmael.  Soon after,
Abram, Lot and their families later move to Canaan.  The time of
the Patriarchs and Matriarchs.
[...]
1800 B.C.   Sumer and Akkad conquered by the Amorite King of
Babylon, Hamurrabi.


By the way, the Babylonian version of Hell is very similar to the
concept of Sheol, the Jewish equivalent, in which the dead exist in
dust and silence. From Sheol, of course, came the Christian Prugatory.


Me
>>It is relevant to this group that the race about whom most of the
>>bickering here is about base their justification for uniqueness on an
>>out-dated set of rules cobbled together over a few centuries before
>>the life of Jesus and prettied up since.
Charles Power
>No, actually, there is very little bickering about the race of
>anyone. You might do better on a Jewish or Israeli newsgroup, but
>whether Mike Stein (for instance) is a Khazar or a Ferenghi is of 
>very little interest to me or most participants (including Mike, 
>I suspect) on alt.revisionism.

This is a group in which the claimed killing of six million Jews is
the main debating point. A large percentage of the proponents of the
claim are Jewish, and call non-believers "anti-Semites." Those of
Nizcor who are supposedly not Jewish make a point of stating that they
are not, even though they are believers. So the subject does fit the
group. 

This is but a small tip of a vast iceberg of history about the Middle
East and its racial and religious development OUTSIDE OF the Biblical
narratives.

Please see thread titled THE MOSES MYTH for part two, in which it is
shown that Moses was NOT the first leader to receive tablets of
commandments at the top of a mountain from a god. 

Fergus McClelland




From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:49 PST 1996
Article: 89141 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: STRANGE E-MAIL FROM DANNNY KEREN
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 02:33:13 GMT
Lines: 76
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To: 
Subject: Re: Doc Tavish unless otherwise noted
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 17:09:15 -0500

redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland) writes:

# However, the fact that the character is a corrupt
# and arrogant nobleman in the operetta who takes on the
# titles and salaries of many more honourable top civil
# servants when they resign does rather remind me of
# Jewish behaviour.

Danny Keren
>Ah, grumpy old Fergus. Still mad at losing Palestine to
>dem Jooooos are you?

Not at all, remember that Britain GAVE it to them. It was not LOST, it
was GIVEN. Charity for the impoverished. (I think that it should have
been paid for though.).


Danny Keren
>BTW old chap, I found this on dejanews.

Of course you did. But why were you looking? 

>

>  From:         

>  Linda Strong wrote:

>[some snipped - d.k]

>  it's soooo good to hear from both Gisela and Fergus.  So Fergus:
  >What's *your* problem???  Where've you been??

> Dear Linda,

>[some snipped - d.k]

> My problem? unlawful, gainful, employment which CANNOT be
> discussed here:-)

> A thousand blessing on you Linda,

> Love,

> Fergus

>

>Did you post the above, Fergus? If so, would you mind telling
>me what "unlawful, gainful, employment which CANNOT be discussed
>here" means?

>Cheers,


>-Danny Keren.

I'm afraid that it is on such a vast international scale that you had
better not know. All involved only know what they need to - and you
don't need to. Really, I am being kind in not telling you. The
knowledge would be dangerous to you. You really should not have even
asked. Others now know that YOU know - if you know what I mean. 

By the way, was there some sort of implied blackmail in your e-mailing
this to me and asking your question? 

Fergus McClelland





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 27 11:37:50 PST 1996
Article: 89195 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Chucky's Losing it Too!
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:12:17 GMT
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:89195 alt.politics.white-power:53641 alt.politics.nationalism.white:40864

schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <32BB68CD.60D6@phoenix.net>, tavish@phoenix.net wrote:
>

>> We lean backwards because we are so well hung!]

Chuck Feree
>> Bullshit, that's a lie because I'm an old cowpoke from Tucson, and them 
>> heels ain't made for walking. As for your being hung, well hung that is, 
>> the pack of ya, could be measured and come up short with a 12" ruler. 
>> Shriviled balls don't count anyhow.

SARA
>What *is* this fetish with his body parts that Mr. Tavish seems to have?

See above Jezabel, the man talking is your old - very old - "mucker",
Chuck Feree. But you are right about his obsession.

Chuck Feree
>> You really think my IQ needs 25 more points? As of 1943 it was 132 
>> according to the US Army Air Corps, course somes gone now, but not
>> enough 
>> to make me want to join your raunchy gang of dipsticks. Nazi MFs are
>> dead 
>> meat as far as I'm concerned.

You Sara
>Hmm... 132. According to Mr. Giwer, that makes you stupid.

Chuck Feree
>> Fuck Halsey too, (with your lil dick) and I don't wanna read anything 
>> this scumbag writes.
>>
Doc Tavish
>> deleted  per above reasons.
>> 
>> >Sir Lord Reginald Higham Cornelius McTavish

Chuck Feree
>> Yeah sure, fucking royalty...huh?

YOU Sara
>Well... I'm sure Mr. Giwer will be pleased that you want to fuck him.
>
>Although, he may consider you too stupid for him.
>
>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       Anon, Treaty With Tripoli, 1796

You really got that mucked up didn't you Medusa? I can only think that
at the genital references jealously, or lust, temporarily further
deranged the organ which does all your thinking. And we all know what
that is don't we? No wonder you love abortions - you need the space to
keep all your thoughts in! There were you insulting Doc Tavish for the
remarks of Chuck Feree! You will do anything to entice Messers Giwer
and Tavish. 
You Jezabel you.
naughty, naughty. 
Restrain yourself! 
This is "Netisex" at it's most blatant.


Fergus McClelland




From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 28 09:14:01 PST 1996
Article: 89485 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: STRANGE E-MAIL FROM DANNY KEREN
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 15:38:28 GMT
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karlpov@explorer2.clark.net (Charles Power) wrote:

>Fergus, are all you bleeding Limeys such idiots? The purpose
>in quoting only parts of a quoted message is to spare elephantine
>trash such as the post to which I'm replying from clogging the
>bandwidth. 

Why the abuse?

Bandwidth saving? Who takes notice of bandwidth in this group? Check
on the repeated posting of long tracts from Nizkor by it's office boy.
Check the long insults about people at the end of Mark Van Alstine's
postings. Remember the long sigs about Tom Moran and Matt Giwer posted
many times by Nizcor officials. I have not noticed you complaining
about these, though I could have missed it.

I think that you don't REALLY care about bandwidth - unless you
disagree with the poster. I have no problem with people editing and
putting a mark, (like "") to show that they have done so. As
long as they do not evade in the process, or change the meaning of the
original message by so doing. I note that you, in replying to me in
another thread, have NOT removed or twisted things that I have said. I
thank you for that, and have answered your comments there in THE NOAH
MYTH and will complete my answer in THE MOSES MYTH.


Fergus McClelland


You should be thanking Danny Keren for exercising a
>bit of intelligence which is apparently beyond you.






From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 28 09:14:02 PST 1996
Article: 89498 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: THE MOSES MYTH
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 15:04:42 GMT
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Moses is usually taken to have been a Levite - or, at least, of the
same blood as the writers of the Biblical tales about him and to be so
important as to be founder of Mosaic Law which modern Jews revere. 

However, many of the most memorable events in the life of Moses are
lifted whole from the lives of Sargon I (2360-2305 BC). and of
Hammurabi, (circa1800 BC) NEITHER of whom were of the tribes who are
referred to as the semites. The legend of the birth of Sargon I brings
to mind Cyrus, Romulus, Krishna, Moses and Perseus. His mother, a
virgin, put him in a container, sealed it with pitch, and set it
adrift on a stream. Akki, creator of waters, raised the foundling to
be a gardener, and later the goddess Ishtar made him a king. For a
long time it was believed that Sharruken ("legitimate king" Sargon)
had never really existed. Today, due to much documentary and physical
evidence, there is no doubt.  

The same birth myths were later imposed on Hammurabi. 
 As can be seen by looking at the "Jewish History Timeline" used
herein - (used to prevent argument) Hammurabi lived in 1800 BC. (Some
authorities have put Hammurabi as much as 100 years later than this).
Moses, however, is taken to have lived in about 1315 BC. "About" I
would take to mean within about a century - it is hard to date, as
there is NO external evidence for the people or events of the Biblical
period in Egypt. This "about" dating is "about" 500 years AFTER
Hammurabi.

Hammurabi, (the eleventh King of the Amurru dynasty), was known as
"The Law Giver", and it was under his reign that Babylon reached its
peak of power and arrogance. Before Hammurabi there had been other
legal codifications of a sketchy character, (the kings of Isin and
King Shugli of Ur of the Third Dynasty had all established fixed laws)
but it was Hammurabi who fused local laws and precepts into a
comprehensive legal code of nearly three hundred paragraphs. The
influence of this code lasted long after the death of Hammurabi. This
code was an extension of the Sumerian legal principles of old Sumer,
and was governed by a clear and consistent concept of guilt. It even
included detailed specifications for physicians conduct, (paragraph
218). The Code of Hammurabi was found inscribed on the great legal
stele at Susa. A tablet of stone - covered with the laws of a leader.

Hammurabi. like Sargon and many others, (such as those I mentioned
above), was under threat as a baby and had to be put into a basket and
floated off into the bulrushes for his own safety.

After Hammurabi became king, he went up a mountain and received his
tablets of laws from the sun god. To my ignorant mind, the similarity
between the Hebrew word for the sun and the Babylonian word for their
sun god, (Shamash and Shemesh) seem more than coincidence.

3000 B.C.   Ancient Sumerian civilization. [The Sumerians called
their land Kengir, and their language Emegir.]  To the north lies
the Akkadian people.
[...]
2900 B.C.    Sumerian golden age of primitive democracy.
[...]
2600 B.C.    Cheops reigns in Egypt.  Time of Sumerian folk hero
Gilgamesh.

(Please note date, as this is where Ut-Napishim appears - F McC)

When Wooley took into consideration the correspondence between the
Biblical story and the much older lists of the Sumerian kings, (the
flood came; and after the flood, kingship was sent down from on high)
he decided that the flood of Genesis was none other than the Sumerian
tale - NOT a similar story about another flood and another
Ut-Napishtim. To say that the modern Jews are descended from Shem but
NOT from his father Noah is amusing, though not accurate. Also, as the
story was not about a "proto-semite" called Noah but a Sumerian named
Ut-Napishtim it is impossible.


The Sumerians were a non-semitic, dark-haired people - "black-headed"
is the term for them in the inscriptions - and were the last to enter
the delta of the Tigris and the Euphrates. Before their arrival the
land had been settled by two, probably different, semitic tribes. But
the Sumerians, brought with them a superior culture, some of its
elements already developed to their final form, which they imposed on
the barbaric Semites. As to the origin of the Sumerians, all that can
be said is that their language is somewhat similar to the ancient
Turkish, or Turanian. Anything else is hypothesis. People who
habitually represented their gods as standing on mountains, who prayed
to them from high places, and who for this purpose even built
artificial hills. or ziggurats, on the plains of their adopted land,
could not, it seems have come from a flat country.

Once again, the king lists of the Sumerians are very similar to those
of the Semitic Bible (written MUCH later and only oral for many
humdreds of years)  - except that the Sumerian kings tended to have
life spans much longer than Methuselah. The Sumerians also had ten
"primal kings", before a flood and a world re-populated by
Ut-Napishtim and his children after the Flood.  Ut-Napishtim was much
later to be renamed "Noah"  by the Bible story writers).


1800 B.C.   Sumer and Akkad conquered by the Amorite King of
Babylon, Hamurrabi.
[...]
1700 B.C.   Egypt is conquered by Asian tribes known as the Hyksos.
[...]
1315 B.C.    Egypt's 19th dynasty begins.  Ramses I, Seti I. 
It is possible that Moses was born in this time period. If so, he
would possibly become a prince of the royal court of Seti I.

For a more detailed knowledge of the birth of the myths of the Middle
East which to this day have such influence on the world - believed
unquestioningly by many, I would suggest perusing at least a few of
the following:


"Gods Graves and Scholars" by C.W. Ceram
"The Unauthorized Version" by Robin Lane Fox (Particularly recommended
for its detailing of the development of the "Old Testament")
"The Epic of Gligamesh" by a Sumerian!
"The Bible Came From Arabia" by Kamal Salibi
"The Exodus Enigma" by Ian Wilson
"The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception" by Michael Beigent and Richard Leigh
"The History of God" by Karen Armstrong
"Jesus the Evidence" by Ian Wilson


(Extracts from: Jewish History Timeline - by Robert D. Kaiser
Compiled from a number of sources, including books by Abba Eban,
Chaim Potok, and Martin Gilbert.  Thanks goes out to David Levene
>from  the University of Durham for his help.)



Fergus McClelland



Me
>>                                         Likewise the fact that there
>>are lies in thier most sacred historical stories. The fact the "Moses"
>>was NOT a  Levite or any other kind of Jew, that his story was put
>>together from myths and tales about the life of an important member of
>>another race many years before the accepted biblical date of "Moses"
>>is, I think, important.
Charles Power
>It may be important to you, but it is no more than speculation, 
>certainly worth no more than the account in the Bible itself.



> I am simply pointing out what is in the Bible,
>as opposed to your own rather inane distortions. If you wish to
>put down the Bible (a sport in which I've engaged myself in 
>appropriate newsgroups), you should try reading it. My complaint
>is not that you are an unbeliever, it's that you give unbelievers
>like myself a bad name by your ignorance.
>



From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 23:00:17 PST 1996
Article: 89875 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHY WE HATE CHRISTIANS, a petition
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:17:10 GMT
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John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:

>In <32bef195.103200@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
>(Fergus McClelland) wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>What blatant and easily proven lies. Why do you do it Mr Morris? A few
>>mere keystokes and you make it impossible to believe anything you ever
>>write. 


John, Morris - after removing part of what I said to strengthen his
argument said:

>You wouldn't believe anything I write in any case. It is in the nature
>of your fanaticism not to.
>
>>Going through this scurrelous paragraph point by point.

John Morris
>Scurrilous.

Thank you so much - I probably won't bother to do the same for you.

Me
>>2. You spelt my name wrong. 
John Morris
>Sorry.

Thanks for the apology, though it was not necessary.


Me
>>3. I suppose that I am particularly ugly to you: not squat and fat,
>>not dark-haired, not large-nosed and eyes which are not lizard-like,
>>so I suppose that I shall let that remark pass as your opinion of
>>non-Jewish looks..


John Morris
>Thanks for proving my point, antisemite.

Here there is another distortion Mr. Morris. You originally decided to
call me "particularly ugly" - though I am not aware that you have ever
seen me. I took this to mean that you have a racially motivated
dislike of Northern European looks, preferring the facial features of
Mediterranean races. As I have the impression, perhaps wrong, that you
are of Jewish blood, I would expect you to find those of your own type
attractive before those radically different. How this makes ME an
"anti-Semite" I do not know. I rather think it shows your predjudices.


Mr morris continued:
>By the way, your post did not address any lies which I might have
>told. 

Actually, it did, but you cut that bit. I mentioned your claim that I
have a web site that mirrors that of Matt Giwer - remember? I asked
YOU for the address of my web site. I ask again: Where is the web
site?

To repeat exactly what I said:

"5. Mr Giwer has not "recruited" me to do anything. Please tell me
where my website is or be proven a liar - like so many of your crowd.
Let's not have so much of it you cheeky sod."

Is this clear enough?

Mr Morris
>Try not to be so quick labelling people.

As I said before, I have had friends in the past who were Jews by
blood. Some practiced the religion as well. You may even have heard of
some of them - and yes - to answer the next question, I can easily
prove it.

In future Mr Morris, heed your own advice:
Try not to be so quick labelling people.

Fergus McClelland


>--
> John Morris                                
> at University of Alberta  
>-- 
>The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/



From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 23:00:18 PST 1996
Article: 89884 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.christnet,uk.misc,alt.religion.islam,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele/Brian Smith:  Idiot or Doofus?
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:17:11 GMT
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schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>> In article <32bdb6ed.235832534@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
>> Stele) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The government certainly was in no manner founded to permit Jews to
>> use the government to enforce the dietary laws of the Jewish religion
>> as is currently being done, a clear violation of Church and State.
>> Jews, not Christians, are the most flagrant violators of Church and
>> state today.   
>
>Violation of Church and State?!?!
> 
>You mean like the WASHINGTON NATIONAL CATHEDRAL?!?
> 
>Wouldn't you think, if we run everything, there'd be a national synagogue?!

Miss Schwartz, with all due respect, I think there is, it's called the
National Holocaust Memorial Museum


Fergus McClelland


>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       anon , "Treaty With Tripoli 1796

Sig.line altered for accuracy





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 29 23:00:19 PST 1996
Article: 89888 of alt.revisionism
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Chucky's Losing it Too!
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:17:12 GMT
Lines: 148
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schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <32c300ca.3996133@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
>(Fergus McClelland) wrote:
>
>[incredibly bizarre post by Fergus McClelland snipped]
> 
>Mr. McClelland:
> 
>Please do something about your newsreader. It is impossible to know what
>you are quoting and what you are saying.

Sorry about that, I tried to make it all clear. I think that the
difficulty was caused by Doc Tavish posting an e-mail without putting
">" to the left of every line written by Chuck Feree. That was why I
wrote in some of the names as you had seemed to get some of the
statements attributed to the wrong person.


>However, let me point out one thing:
>
>> schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <32BB68CD.60D6@phoenix.net>, tavish@phoenix.net wrote:
>> >
>> 
>> >> We lean backwards because we are so well hung!]
>> 
>> Chuck Feree
>> >> Bullshit, that's a lie because I'm an old cowpoke from Tucson, and them 
>> >> heels ain't made for walking. As for your being hung, well hung that is, 
>> >> the pack of ya, could be measured and come up short with a 12" ruler. 
>> >> Shriviled balls don't count anyhow.
>> 
>> SARA
>> >What *is* this fetish with his body parts that Mr. Tavish seems to have?

As you wrote your comment AFTER Chuck Feree, I took it that you were
responding to his detailed sexual reference rather than the shorter
one by Doc Tavish. I can see that I could have been wrong and
apologise if that was the case. You say notice the "fetish" of one,
but not the other - okay.

>> See above Jezabel, the man talking is your old - very old - "mucker",
>> Chuck Feree. But you are right about his obsession.
>> 
>
>No, Mr. McClelland, you are wrong (why doesn't that surprise me?). I was
>referring to Mr. Tavish's comment about being "well hung." I was not
>responding to Mr. Ferree.

See reply above

>Mr. Ferree does not have an obsession with body parts, he is only
>responding to a man who seems obsessed with various parts of his own
>genitalia, Mr. Tavish.

I can't let that pass. Mr Feree was talking about genitals and
masturbation months before Doc Tavish arrived in this group - as I am
sure you are aware. I could post quite a few examples if you wish?

>As for your calling me "Jezabel" [sic] and Medusa, I thank you.

My pleasure, it was meant to flatter.

>I am obviously upsetting you and your ilk, since you folks seem so
>determined to revert to infantile name-calling.

I don't think that I have an "ilk". But I have to say that you only
ever once "upset" me, (a little) when you admitted to working hard to
suppress the free speech of a user of the group by sneaking to his
ISP. Other than that, you have entertained and amused greatly, and I
thank you for it.

>There are those of us who try to debate intelligently.

By correcting spelling mistakes and telling people to "Wash my car
NOW"?

>There are those of us who refer to our opponents in debate as "Mr."
True. Sorry Mr Schwartz! :-)

>There are those of us who try to respond to name-calling by rising above it.
The day you rise above name-calling is the day everyone will stop
doing it!

>Then there are those who think "Nizpoop" and "Nizkook" are mature ways of
>referring to Nizkor.

I think that some are only playing - and others hold Nizkor in
contempt. How many times have Nizcor supporters in this group referred
to something called the "National Appliance" and "White Power
Rangers"? It was months before I had any idea what was being spoken
of. That's how people behave Miss Schwartz.

Miss Schwarz.
>There are those who believe that "Medusa" and "Jezabel" [sic] and "dumb
>cunt" and "stupid slut" and "mucker" are appropriate ways of responding
>intelligently.

>Your words speak volumes about you, Mr. McClelland.

I think that you may be doing a bit of deliberate, though quite nifty
blending here. I have never called you "dumb cunt" or "stupid slut"
Have I? Nor will I. Indeed, if you are honest you will admit that I
have never sworn at you at all. I have merely teased a prime target -
and tried to pop your self-importance a bit. Imcidentally, "Mucker" is
NO sort of insult at all. It means "Mate", "Friend", "Buddy", somebody
you "mack about" with. A term of indearment, as in "Hello me old
mucker." Sorry you got the wrong impression, it must be the language
barrier.

>And you are fast becoming one of the best arguments for Nizkor. 

If I am one of the best arguments for Nizkor then it has very little
reason for existing.

>> You really got that mucked up didn't you Medusa? I can only think that
>> at the genital references jealously, or lust, temporarily further
>> deranged the organ which does all your thinking. And we all know what
>> that is don't we? No wonder you love abortions - you need the space to
>> keep all your thoughts in! There were you insulting Doc Tavish for the
>> remarks of Chuck Feree! You will do anything to entice Messers Giwer
>> and Tavish. 
>
>Which organ is it that you are implying does "my thinking"? I assume you
>mean my brain, which is the one organ you haven't seemed to utilize yet,
>Mr. McClelland.


The rest snipped as I have no suitable answers that would not offend.
Over to you Doc Tavish, you have a way with the ladies!


Fergus McClelland




>Sara
>
>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       anon. "Treaty With Tripoli, 1796





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 30 10:42:54 PST 1996
Article: 41293 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Chucky's Losing it Too!
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:17:12 GMT
Lines: 148
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schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <32c300ca.3996133@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
>(Fergus McClelland) wrote:
>
>[incredibly bizarre post by Fergus McClelland snipped]
> 
>Mr. McClelland:
> 
>Please do something about your newsreader. It is impossible to know what
>you are quoting and what you are saying.

Sorry about that, I tried to make it all clear. I think that the
difficulty was caused by Doc Tavish posting an e-mail without putting
">" to the left of every line written by Chuck Feree. That was why I
wrote in some of the names as you had seemed to get some of the
statements attributed to the wrong person.


>However, let me point out one thing:
>
>> schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <32BB68CD.60D6@phoenix.net>, tavish@phoenix.net wrote:
>> >
>> 
>> >> We lean backwards because we are so well hung!]
>> 
>> Chuck Feree
>> >> Bullshit, that's a lie because I'm an old cowpoke from Tucson, and them 
>> >> heels ain't made for walking. As for your being hung, well hung that is, 
>> >> the pack of ya, could be measured and come up short with a 12" ruler. 
>> >> Shriviled balls don't count anyhow.
>> 
>> SARA
>> >What *is* this fetish with his body parts that Mr. Tavish seems to have?

As you wrote your comment AFTER Chuck Feree, I took it that you were
responding to his detailed sexual reference rather than the shorter
one by Doc Tavish. I can see that I could have been wrong and
apologise if that was the case. You say notice the "fetish" of one,
but not the other - okay.

>> See above Jezabel, the man talking is your old - very old - "mucker",
>> Chuck Feree. But you are right about his obsession.
>> 
>
>No, Mr. McClelland, you are wrong (why doesn't that surprise me?). I was
>referring to Mr. Tavish's comment about being "well hung." I was not
>responding to Mr. Ferree.

See reply above

>Mr. Ferree does not have an obsession with body parts, he is only
>responding to a man who seems obsessed with various parts of his own
>genitalia, Mr. Tavish.

I can't let that pass. Mr Feree was talking about genitals and
masturbation months before Doc Tavish arrived in this group - as I am
sure you are aware. I could post quite a few examples if you wish?

>As for your calling me "Jezabel" [sic] and Medusa, I thank you.

My pleasure, it was meant to flatter.

>I am obviously upsetting you and your ilk, since you folks seem so
>determined to revert to infantile name-calling.

I don't think that I have an "ilk". But I have to say that you only
ever once "upset" me, (a little) when you admitted to working hard to
suppress the free speech of a user of the group by sneaking to his
ISP. Other than that, you have entertained and amused greatly, and I
thank you for it.

>There are those of us who try to debate intelligently.

By correcting spelling mistakes and telling people to "Wash my car
NOW"?

>There are those of us who refer to our opponents in debate as "Mr."
True. Sorry Mr Schwartz! :-)

>There are those of us who try to respond to name-calling by rising above it.
The day you rise above name-calling is the day everyone will stop
doing it!

>Then there are those who think "Nizpoop" and "Nizkook" are mature ways of
>referring to Nizkor.

I think that some are only playing - and others hold Nizkor in
contempt. How many times have Nizcor supporters in this group referred
to something called the "National Appliance" and "White Power
Rangers"? It was months before I had any idea what was being spoken
of. That's how people behave Miss Schwartz.

Miss Schwarz.
>There are those who believe that "Medusa" and "Jezabel" [sic] and "dumb
>cunt" and "stupid slut" and "mucker" are appropriate ways of responding
>intelligently.

>Your words speak volumes about you, Mr. McClelland.

I think that you may be doing a bit of deliberate, though quite nifty
blending here. I have never called you "dumb cunt" or "stupid slut"
Have I? Nor will I. Indeed, if you are honest you will admit that I
have never sworn at you at all. I have merely teased a prime target -
and tried to pop your self-importance a bit. Imcidentally, "Mucker" is
NO sort of insult at all. It means "Mate", "Friend", "Buddy", somebody
you "mack about" with. A term of indearment, as in "Hello me old
mucker." Sorry you got the wrong impression, it must be the language
barrier.

>And you are fast becoming one of the best arguments for Nizkor. 

If I am one of the best arguments for Nizkor then it has very little
reason for existing.

>> You really got that mucked up didn't you Medusa? I can only think that
>> at the genital references jealously, or lust, temporarily further
>> deranged the organ which does all your thinking. And we all know what
>> that is don't we? No wonder you love abortions - you need the space to
>> keep all your thoughts in! There were you insulting Doc Tavish for the
>> remarks of Chuck Feree! You will do anything to entice Messers Giwer
>> and Tavish. 
>
>Which organ is it that you are implying does "my thinking"? I assume you
>mean my brain, which is the one organ you haven't seemed to utilize yet,
>Mr. McClelland.


The rest snipped as I have no suitable answers that would not offend.
Over to you Doc Tavish, you have a way with the ladies!


Fergus McClelland




>Sara
>
>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       anon. "Treaty With Tripoli, 1796





From redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 30 10:47:28 PST 1996
Article: 53985 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk (Fergus McClelland)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Chucky's Losing it Too!
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 23:17:12 GMT
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schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

>In article <32c300ca.3996133@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
>(Fergus McClelland) wrote:
>
>[incredibly bizarre post by Fergus McClelland snipped]
> 
>Mr. McClelland:
> 
>Please do something about your newsreader. It is impossible to know what
>you are quoting and what you are saying.

Sorry about that, I tried to make it all clear. I think that the
difficulty was caused by Doc Tavish posting an e-mail without putting
">" to the left of every line written by Chuck Feree. That was why I
wrote in some of the names as you had seemed to get some of the
statements attributed to the wrong person.


>However, let me point out one thing:
>
>> schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <32BB68CD.60D6@phoenix.net>, tavish@phoenix.net wrote:
>> >
>> 
>> >> We lean backwards because we are so well hung!]
>> 
>> Chuck Feree
>> >> Bullshit, that's a lie because I'm an old cowpoke from Tucson, and them 
>> >> heels ain't made for walking. As for your being hung, well hung that is, 
>> >> the pack of ya, could be measured and come up short with a 12" ruler. 
>> >> Shriviled balls don't count anyhow.
>> 
>> SARA
>> >What *is* this fetish with his body parts that Mr. Tavish seems to have?

As you wrote your comment AFTER Chuck Feree, I took it that you were
responding to his detailed sexual reference rather than the shorter
one by Doc Tavish. I can see that I could have been wrong and
apologise if that was the case. You say notice the "fetish" of one,
but not the other - okay.

>> See above Jezabel, the man talking is your old - very old - "mucker",
>> Chuck Feree. But you are right about his obsession.
>> 
>
>No, Mr. McClelland, you are wrong (why doesn't that surprise me?). I was
>referring to Mr. Tavish's comment about being "well hung." I was not
>responding to Mr. Ferree.

See reply above

>Mr. Ferree does not have an obsession with body parts, he is only
>responding to a man who seems obsessed with various parts of his own
>genitalia, Mr. Tavish.

I can't let that pass. Mr Feree was talking about genitals and
masturbation months before Doc Tavish arrived in this group - as I am
sure you are aware. I could post quite a few examples if you wish?

>As for your calling me "Jezabel" [sic] and Medusa, I thank you.

My pleasure, it was meant to flatter.

>I am obviously upsetting you and your ilk, since you folks seem so
>determined to revert to infantile name-calling.

I don't think that I have an "ilk". But I have to say that you only
ever once "upset" me, (a little) when you admitted to working hard to
suppress the free speech of a user of the group by sneaking to his
ISP. Other than that, you have entertained and amused greatly, and I
thank you for it.

>There are those of us who try to debate intelligently.

By correcting spelling mistakes and telling people to "Wash my car
NOW"?

>There are those of us who refer to our opponents in debate as "Mr."
True. Sorry Mr Schwartz! :-)

>There are those of us who try to respond to name-calling by rising above it.
The day you rise above name-calling is the day everyone will stop
doing it!

>Then there are those who think "Nizpoop" and "Nizkook" are mature ways of
>referring to Nizkor.

I think that some are only playing - and others hold Nizkor in
contempt. How many times have Nizcor supporters in this group referred
to something called the "National Appliance" and "White Power
Rangers"? It was months before I had any idea what was being spoken
of. That's how people behave Miss Schwartz.

Miss Schwarz.
>There are those who believe that "Medusa" and "Jezabel" [sic] and "dumb
>cunt" and "stupid slut" and "mucker" are appropriate ways of responding
>intelligently.

>Your words speak volumes about you, Mr. McClelland.

I think that you may be doing a bit of deliberate, though quite nifty
blending here. I have never called you "dumb cunt" or "stupid slut"
Have I? Nor will I. Indeed, if you are honest you will admit that I
have never sworn at you at all. I have merely teased a prime target -
and tried to pop your self-importance a bit. Imcidentally, "Mucker" is
NO sort of insult at all. It means "Mate", "Friend", "Buddy", somebody
you "mack about" with. A term of indearment, as in "Hello me old
mucker." Sorry you got the wrong impression, it must be the language
barrier.

>And you are fast becoming one of the best arguments for Nizkor. 

If I am one of the best arguments for Nizkor then it has very little
reason for existing.

>> You really got that mucked up didn't you Medusa? I can only think that
>> at the genital references jealously, or lust, temporarily further
>> deranged the organ which does all your thinking. And we all know what
>> that is don't we? No wonder you love abortions - you need the space to
>> keep all your thoughts in! There were you insulting Doc Tavish for the
>> remarks of Chuck Feree! You will do anything to entice Messers Giwer
>> and Tavish. 
>
>Which organ is it that you are implying does "my thinking"? I assume you
>mean my brain, which is the one organ you haven't seemed to utilize yet,
>Mr. McClelland.


The rest snipped as I have no suitable answers that would not offend.
Over to you Doc Tavish, you have a way with the ladies!


Fergus McClelland




>Sara
>
>-- 
>"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the
>Christian religion."
>       anon. "Treaty With Tripoli, 1796






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