Archive/File: holocaust/deniers tmc.1094
Last-Modified: 1995/01/03

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Article: 16730 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Faurisson vs. Berenbaum
Date: 30 Sep 1994 00:10:43 GMT
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In article , wmcguire@world.std.com
(Wayne McGuire) wrote:

> In article <36en9b$bi5@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny
Keren) wrote:
> //Wayne McGuire  wrote:
> //
> //# I would like to see a blueprint of a gas chamber, with all the
> //# appropriate cites. Would you please post it? Thanks.
> //
> //Check
> //
> //Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
> //the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989.
> 
> Thanks, Danny. And thanks for not getting defensive and jumping
> down my throat for asking a simple question.
> 
> I will obtain this book, and read it.
> 
> Perhaps the blueprint could be stored as a GIF and made available
> on a host somewhere.

-------------------

You may obtain this book, but I have had no success. The book was never
for sale to the public "goyim" #1, and #2, the libraries that have it will
NOT part with their copies via interlibrary loan. The only way to see it
is if you live near a big university or the Library of Congress. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

p.s. There have been several devastating reviews of this work, however.


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Article: 16732 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Backing-up Kleim and challenging Schultz
Date: 30 Sep 1994 00:21:45 GMT
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:


> 
> Just for kicks, I'll throw a few references into the ring.  No, these are
> not my "best evidence," they're just what I happen to have in front of me
> today.  The topic is whether or not the Nazis considered Slavs to be
> Aryan, right?
> 

>       (_Anatomy_, "Auschwitz -- An Overview," Yisrael Gutman,
>        p. 25, 33)
> 

>       (Ibid, "The System of Prisoner Exploitation," Franciszek Piper,
>        p. 47)
>    

>       (Ibid, "The Auschwitz Prisoner Administration," Danuta Czech,
>        p. 364)
> 
------------------------------------------

You are joking with this, aren't you?? Yisrael Gutman!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobody said the quotes had to be in the German. Alot of works were
translated by the British from the German from 1933 until Britstain
started the Second World War with their war declaration against Germany,
thereby turning a local conflict into a world war. 

If you want to learn about NS race, check-out books by the last Aryan
scientists on this subject, Fischer, Bauer and Lenz. A good one is "Human
Heredity," although it doesn't deal with the issue at hand here.

But, again, the Ukranians, Poles, etc. were very Aryan in the NS world view.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16877 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Physical Evidence of Gas Chambers
Date: 2 Oct 1994 17:36:41 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <36l5an$1oo@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, dbtgthomas@aol.com
(DbtgThomas) wrote:


> You state that the average adult at Auschwitz probably weighed less than
> 100 pounds which underscores what I was trying to say in an earlier
> posting about the unacceptability of having members of the work crews
> regularly dropping dead from residual cyanide gas in quickly removed piles
> of bodies.  The response I got to that was essentially, so what? 

-------------------------

That is about the best "answer" you will ever get from holohoaxers, as well. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16878 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mechanics of the hoax?
Date: 2 Oct 1994 17:44:52 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <1560600023@cdp>, Michael Philips  wrote:

> As an occasional lurker on alt.revisionism, one thing I'm amazed
> I've never seen from the revisionists is an attempt at a
> description of the mechanics of the so-called hoax.  Exactly who
> pulled off the hoax and how did they do it?  How has it been
> perpetuated?  Who fabricated the thousands of details?  Who
> conducted and coordinated the tens of thousands of supposedly phony
> eye-witnesses?  How could they have accomplished it right at the
> end of the war when the general confusion surrounding cross-border,
> multilingual communications and logistics would have made the whole
> operation seemingly infeasible?  How did they communicate with
> everybody -- by telephone?  Telegraph?  Smoke signals?  ESP? 
> Email?  How?
>  
> Although I have seen the revisionists post vague references to "the
> government in Washington, the entertainment media in Hollywood, and
> the print media in New York" as the presumed conspirators, I have
> not seen them get specific with names or events involved inthe
> conspiracy.  What was the actual game plan and how was it carried
> out?
>  
> Finally, there's the thorny issue of documentation.  Even if the
> revisionists could speculate on how the campaign was carried out,
> I want to see actual documentation.  The revisionists claim that
> the lack of a written order to wipe out the Jews proves that no
> such order was given.  A silly claim, of course, but assuming
> that's the standard by which the revisionists determine whether an
> event has occurred, then where is the conspirators' written order
> or plan that calls for the hoax to be instituted?  By the
> revisionists' own reasoning, the lack of an order to pull off the
> hoax means that the hoax did not occur.
>  
>      Michael Philips

---------------------

Hey, you twit, go back to "occasional lurking". This post is an
embarrassment even to certified lunatic holohoaxers like Jamie McCarthy
and Schlovo Schultz.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16880 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Final Solution (abbreviated)
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:04:42 GMT
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Generalkommissar for White Russia (Weiss Russland) Wilhelm Kube, 31 July
1942, to the Reichskommissar for Ostland, Lohse

English translation from the German book, "Schvne Zeiten"
comments in quotation marks are NOT mine

Re: Combating partisans and Judenaktion in White Russia Generalbezirk


It has become apparent during the course of all clashes with partisans in
White Russia, in both the former Polish and the former Soviet parts of the
Generalbezirk, that the Jews, together with the Polish resistance movement
and the Moscow Red Army in the east, are the principal supporters of the
partisan movement. Consequently, the question of how the Jews in White
Russia should be handled is a political matter taking priority over all
considerations about risks to the economy as a whole. Accordingly, it has
to be solved not from an economic but from a political point of view...

...- for the most part old people, women and children - and the rest Jews
unfit for work, who had been mostly sent from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and
Berlin in November of last year to Minsk on the Fuehrer's orders.

...Minsk will continue to retain the largest Jewish workforce. This is
currently necessary because of the high concentration of armaments
factories and work related to the railway...

...Coming into conflict with this clear brief regarding the Jews is the
difficult task the SD in White Russia is faced with of having to ensure
that the continuous flow of Jewish transports reaches its destination.
This takes a terrible toll on the physical and mental strength of the men
of the SD as well as distracting them from their duties, which lie within
the area of White Russia itself...

...I should therefore be grateful if Herr Reichskommissar could arrange
for further Jewish transports to Minsk to be suspended, at least until the
danger from the partisans has been overcome conclusively. I recquire the
SD for 100 percent deployment against the partisans and the Polish
resistance movement, both of which demand all the strength of the not
exceptionally strong SD units...

Tonight, after the Minsk Judenaktion was over, SS -Obersturmfuehrer Dr.
Strauch reported to me with justified anger that a transport of 1,000 had
suddenly arrived from Warsaw for the district air command here without any
instructions from the Reichsfuehrer -SS or prior notification from the
Generalkommissar. 
 
I would ask Herr Reichskommissar, as the most senior authority in Ostland
(my request is already prepared by teleprinter) to call a halt to such
transports. The Polish Jew is as much an enemy of the German people as the
Russian Jew. He poses a political danger far more significant than his
worth as a skilled worker. Under no circumstances in an area under civil
administration can army or air force personnel bring Jews from the
General-Gouvernment or elsewhere without authorization from you, Herr
Reichskommissar, as they jeopardize all the political work and the
security of the Generalbezirk... 

Generalkommissar for White Russia
(signed) Kube.


Hello "Young Idealists,"

We learn here the Jews have come to White Russia on orders from the
Fuehrer "in a continuous flow" from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen, Berlin,
Warsaw, the General-Gouvernment in general and "elsewhere."

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16882 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech, in German and English
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:26:55 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 57
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In article , charles11@delphi.com wrote:

>  writes:
>  
> >war, the corpses are references to dead soldiers. And, whoever said that
> >Judenevakuierung is a code word for sending the Jews to the gas chambers
> >is reaching here, to say the least.
>  
> Who are you trying to kid, Tim? I read German fluently and while the trans-
> lation is accurate the meaning to me is crystal clear: he is talking of the
> Jews! The word "war" or "war casualties" does not even come up - the whole
> speech deals with the "ausrottung" (extermination) of the Jews. It takes
> a far fetch of the imagination to interpret this any other way.
> Charles11

----------------------------------------

1. First of all, show me a "quote" where the noun "Ausrottung" is not in
the vicinity of the word "Judenevakuierung". I'll even discuss the usual
assortment of holohoaxer forgeries, if that is all that you have.

2. I entered into what I thought would be a discussion of this "proof,"
posted my opening salvo only to see the thread dissolve into the
holohoaxers only debate tools, such as changing the subject, avoiding the
issue, name calling, etc. 

3. I, and other revisionists, have tons of stuff about this "proof" to
use, but none of us will show our whole hand in one post. But, the
holohoaxers killed this debate because they could see that it would become
another defeat for them.

4. The bit about the "extermination of the Jews" being in our programm (es
steht in unserem Programm, die Juden muessen ausgerottet werden) or some
such nonsense, is a demonstrable fraud. 

a. es steht in unserem... is incorrect verb usage and is evidence of
allied forgery. The verb does not mean "is is stated" but "to stand". This
is therefore wrong. "It stands in our program?" That is ridiculous. The
verbs "auffuehren", "bestehen", or "vorliegen" are correct. 

b. This "extermination of the Jews" doesn't "stand" in ANY NS program and
here lies the paradox. On the one hand, holohoaxers say that the
"extermination of 6,000,000 Jews" was a top secret, done by "winks and
nods", but then when it suits them they say that "it stands" in the NS
program, and therefore, all National-Socialists (and all of Germany, since
it "stands"(sic) in the program) would know about it. 

SO WHICH IS IT, HOLOHOAXERS???? Was the "extermination of 6,000,000 Jews
done in top secret, as you claim half of the time, or did it "stand" in
the NS Program "clearly" for all to see and know about??????

5 While Himmler made speeches in Poznan at this time, all revisionists
agree, this part of it is a simple forgery. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16883 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FILIP MUELLER "TESTIFIES" ON AUSCHWITZ  [2/2]
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:32:27 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <3663bl$hpt@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:


> People, and countries, sometimes do terrible things.
> 
> -Danny Keren.

-----------------


Keren, are you talking about your fellow "Israelis" again???????


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16885 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Autopsies on ashes
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:40:27 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <36lqch$cm0@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
> Wayne McGuire  wrote:
> >So then no autopsies were performed? Is this the case?
> 
>     The victims were cremated.  How does one perform an autopsy on ashes?
> 
> 
> >How long would it take for the evidence of gassing to disappear
> >from the victims? Days? Weeks? Months?
> 
>     Wrong question.  How long does it take for the victim to disapper up 
> the chimney?  Answer: about an hour.
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.

-------------------------

Where are the millions of pounds of "holy" remains", you pimply-faced,
atrophied, weasel ???????????????

You mean no excavations have been done around Auschwitz, how convenient. 



Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16886 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The source of European anti-Judaism
Date: 2 Oct 1994 18:42:10 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <36lmrm$b8g@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:


> 
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.

------------------------

The source of American, anti-Mike Steinism is you yourself, Stein, you
little liar.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16896 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Mechanics of the hoax?
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 2 Oct 1994 17:44:52 GMT
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Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <1560600023@cdp> 
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 19:43:42 GMT
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From: landpost@clark.net
>Hey, you twit, go back to "occasional lurking". This post is an
>embarrassment even to certified lunatic holohoaxers like Jamie McCarthy
>and Schlovo Schultz.

Bullshit, PUT UP OR SHUT UP: He asks a very good question which has
been asked before and never ONCE addressed by you looney-tunes:

If you believe that the holocaust is a hoax then WHO orchestrated this
hoax and how?

Not vagaries like ``the us govt'', NAMES, PLACES, DATES. Surely you
loonies must have *some* information on what amounts to an accusation
of one of the biggest hoaxes the world has ever seen. It had to
involve hundreds if not thousands of people, required coordination to
achieve such a level of consistency. WHO DID THIS?

As he asks, if this were a fabrication then how did they manage to get
this entire fabrication together almost immediately, thousands of
reasonably consistent eyewitnesses, documents, photographs, etc.?

How? Who? Where? When?

Failing that, any person would have to conclude that you do not have a
point of view but, rather, a possibly treatable medical condition.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 16997 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech, in German and English
Date: 4 Oct 1994 02:29:35 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References:   <8SEP199415174118@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu>    <1994Oct3.011841.10351@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>
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In article <1994Oct3.011841.10351@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>,
stschulz@informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Schulz) wrote:


> BTW, if there are any doubts about the usage of "stehen" in this
> context you can check up Langenscheids German-English Dictionary at
> http://www.fmi.uni-passau.de/htbin/lt/lt2html.
> 
> Entering "stehen" yields, as the third of 6 meanings:
> 
> 3. (geschrieben stehen;) be written, (geschrieben stehen;) say: _in dem 
>       Brief steht_ the letter says; _wo steht das?_ where does it say so? 
> 
>--------------------------

I only see "stehen" here, unless your pals underground in the STASI can go
back and reforge the manuscript again. No, stehen used alone is pure
nonsense. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 16999 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech, in German and English
Date: 4 Oct 1994 02:33:21 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 24
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In article <36ok21$359@access4.digex.net>, mstein@access4.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:


> >5 While Himmler made speeches in Poznan at this time, all revisionists
> >agree, this part of it is a simple forgery. 
> 
>     Funny, Faurisson doesn't say it's a forgery, just that it's a bit of 
> braggadocio.
> 
>     Greg Raven doesn't say it's a forgery, just that it doesn't really
> mean what it says - I guest somehow Himmler got Jews confused with
> partisans or something like that. 
> 
-----------------

Staeglich says it is a forgery in his section on the Himmler speeches in
"Auschwitz: A Judge Looks at the Evidence." References from Faurisson and
I guess Raven will reply if he didn't say that.

Also, another verb better than "stehen" here would be "angeben."

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17002 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mechanics of the hoax?
Date: 4 Oct 1994 02:45:35 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 23
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In article , choover@sunfish.usd.edu
(Christopher J Hoover ) wrote:


> 
> Actually, Mr. Philips raises some rather salient questions, and draws 
> some equally salient conclusions.  If there was a conspiracy to forge 
> such a large number of documents, then:
> 
> A)  Why has no one, in the intervening 50-some years, come forward and 
> said "I participated in [or witnessed] the forging of incriminating Nazi
> documents"?  Curious, to say the least.  What a tremendously _effective_
> coverup.  Virtually unprecedented in the annals of history, I'd say.

-------------------

See Joseph Halow, Siegerjustiz in Dachau. Druffel Verlag, Berg am See,
Germany. Halow was a young clerk at Dachau for the Americans and he tells
it like it was. I think there is an English edition under another title.
How is that for a start?

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17003 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mechanics of the hoax?
Date: 4 Oct 1994 02:46:42 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
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In article <36n2jk$dl@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> 1) Mr. Philips made a good point, to which "landpost" has no answer.
> 
> 2) "landpost" replied with infantile insults, calling Mr. Philips
>    names and, of course, totally avoiding his question.
> 
> Another day in alt.revisionism.
> 
----------------

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17004 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Autopsies on ashes
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:02:31 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
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In article <36n203$t8g@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:


> # You mean no excavations have been done around Auschwitz, how 
> # convenient. 
> 
> I understand that the Poles discovered large quantities of ash and
> human remains in Treblinka.

The Poles found nothing around Treblinka. 


 In Auschwitz, According to Reitlinger's 
> "The Final Solution" (1968 edition, p. 161), the ash was dumped into 
> the Sola river. 

Where are the remains???? 

 
> Also, when one does the calculation, it turns out that ashes - even
> from a huge number of corpses - take up a surprisingly small
> volume. To be more exact, we'll have to know the weight of a given
> volume of ash (I apologize for going into these gory details). 
> 

A 150 pound man would have to leave at least 1/2 pound of remains. You
say, "6,000,000 Jews were gassed and cremated", so where are the 3,000,000
pounds of remains????


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17005 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Autopsies on ashes
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:06:40 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 21
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References:  <36p2qu$rik@newsbf01.news.aol.com>
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In article <36p2qu$rik@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, annya666@aol.com (AnnyA666)
wrote:

> In article ,
> landpost@clark.net writes:
> 
> >Where are the millions of pounds of "holy" remains", you pimply-faced,
> >atrophied, weasel ???????????????
> 
> Ashes make very good fertilizer.  

----------------

THIS IS A NEW ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! First, we have soap and lampshades, etc.
from Jews, now we have FERTILIZER!!!!!!!!!!! This is incredible, unreal.
Have you a reference for the German "Jews to fertilizer program?" I'm
really waiting for this one!!!


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17006 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The meaning of revisionism
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:15:13 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <36et8e$grk@urvile.MSUS.EDU> <36mtic$8mg@urvile.MSUS.EDU>  <36nv2k$b7c@urvile.MSUS.EDU> <36pv7o$doc@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
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In article <36pv7o$doc@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> Milton John Kleim, Jr.  wrote:
> 
> # Why should we care if six million Jews _were_ gassed?
> 
> Hey Bradley Smith, what do you think he means by this?
> 
> It's really vague, isn't it?
> 
> # This is the Jew.
> 
> # Beria and Kaganovich would be proud.
> 
> Just what makes Kleim think Beria was Jewish? 
> 
-----------

Gee, I guess Herzel wasn't a Zionist either, huh Keren??? 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17007 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reports (was Hostages)
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:24:03 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 45
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References:  <36k1bi$mb5@newsbf01.news.aol.com> 
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> dbtgthomas@aol.com (DbtgThomas) wrote:
> 
> > golux@mcs.com (The only Golux in the World, and not a mere Device) writes:
> > 
> > If you'd like to read an account of Allied atrocities, pick up "Other
> > Losses".
> 
> OK, you got my hackles to rise.
> 
> I have a photocopy lying around of a review of this book by, I think, the
> New York Review of Books.


The review is by New York Times hit man Steven Ambrose from New Orleans, a
biographer and a professor (i.e.: paid prostitute of the establishment).
It is a piece of dung.

 
> The author, James Bacque if memory serves, is quite simply a liar.

Like you???

  At one
> point he uses a typo, a missing zero, to claim that ten times as many
> Germans died as actually did. 

Reference? page number? Nope. Typical holohoaxer baloney.


 Despite the fact that it was obviously a
> typo, since it was in a column of figures that had an accurate total at
> the bottom.

> 
> In short it's a con job by a German nationalist, and it's a favorite of
> the Holocaust-denial movement.

Bacque is a French-Canadian and did his research in France. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17008 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Reports (was Hostages)
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:25:00 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 12
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In article <36kbkj$9fm@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> "Other Losses" is a piece of trash, but it is true that many German
> POW's died in Soviet captivity. However, about 3 million Soviet
> POW's died in Nazi captivity.
> 
--------

Reference, page number, anything???? Nope. More holohoaxer baloney.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17009 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goeth's arrest
Date: 4 Oct 1994 03:42:05 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 18
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References:  <36de93$gs4@access4.digex.net>  
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:


> No one has taken me up on it.  No revisionist has offered.  Landpost
> said he would but then backed down.
> 
> So I guess alt.revisionism certainly has nothing to do with attempting
> to prove the _nonexistence_ of gas chambers.
> 
--------

I'm waiting for a reply to my post "Jamie McCarthy's thin jackets". Er, I
mean I'm "standing" for a reply to this post.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17152 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech, in German and English
Date: 7 Oct 1994 02:37:49 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 21
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References:   <36ok21$359@access4.digex.net>  <36ssur$45t@access3.digex.net>
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In article <36ssur$45t@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >Staeglich says it is a forgery in his section on the Himmler speeches in
> >"Auschwitz: A Judge Looks at the Evidence."
> 
>     Great.  The recording is in the National Archives.  A bunch of us have
> collected pledges toward the cost of conducting a voiceprint analysis of
> the recording to determine whether or not it is genuinely Himmler, and 
> challenged all the revisionists here to match it.  If you take up the 
> challenge, you'll be the first.
> 
-----------------------------

The recording is not in the National Archives in College Park, MD. If it
is, how about the reference number????? 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17153 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech, in German and English
Date: 7 Oct 1994 02:41:43 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References:     <1994Oct5.201134.30667@miavx1>
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In article <1994Oct5.201134.30667@miavx1>, bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
(Raskolnikov) wrote:

>         Perhaps you could tell us _why_ Staeglich thinks it's a forgery?
> 
>        What's your evidence that it is forged, given that we have Himmler's
> handwritten notes, and a recording of the speech?
>  
-------------

No, we don't have it. Only in the fantasy world of exterminationism is
this recording and "notes" in College Park, MD, where obviously you and
none of the other "young idealists" have been in quite some time. 

The question is, where is it??? I think Moscow.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17154 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mechanics of the hoax?
Date: 7 Oct 1994 01:58:58 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 50
Message-ID: 
References: <1560600023@cdp>    
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In article , choover@usd.edu (Christopher J
Hoover ) wrote:


> >See Joseph Halow, Siegerjustiz in Dachau. Druffel Verlag, Berg am See,
> >Germany. Halow was a young clerk at Dachau for the Americans and he tells
> >it like it was. I think there is an English edition under another title.
> 
> Yep.  _Innocent at Dachau_ was published in the U.S. in 1993 by 
> everybody's favorite scholarly publishing house, the Institute for 
> Historical Review.  Given that pedigree, perhaps Mr. McCarthy would be 
> able to tell us what other sort of material is published by Druffel 
> Verlag.
> 
> >How is that for a start?
> 
> Unfortunately, it's not a start at all for me.  The only place I can turn
> this volume up is at the Library of Congress.  It doesn't show up on any
> of the libraries that share a regional PALS network with USD; neither does
> it show up at LUMINA or CARL.  I would have checked MELVYL as well, but I
> couldn't connect to it at the time.

Maybe you will, horrors, have to buy it then. 
 
> 
> It would seem that reputable libraries tend not to bother with books from 
> the IHR.  Imagine.

Unfortunately, nobody has to imagine this situation. It is a problem faced
by all small publishers, not just the IHR.

> 
> So it looks like getting it via ILL would be out of the question for me.  
> Perhaps Mr. McCarthy will be kind enough to provide us with some quotes 
> from Herr Halow which support Mr. McCarthy's thesis?  In the mean time, 
> perhaps we can ask whether there any such sources published by anyone 
> _other_ than avowed Holocaust deniers....
> 
First of all, "Herr Halow" is an American of Lebanese descent. 
Secondly, it is sometimes amazing to me, that people actually have this
infantile view of publishing in the US of A. Halow, I know for sure,
showed his manuscript to over 40 New York publishing houses, almost
everyone of which reside in the same Manhattan highrise (how lovely). He
was rejected by each and everyone of them. Do you think established USA
publishers are searching for manuscripts like this?? Wow!!
I don't know who published him in the states, but I think it was the IHR.
Hats off to them if it was for their lone committment to free speech.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17155 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kleim's hate (was: The meaning of revisionism)
Date: 7 Oct 1994 02:01:39 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <2637550.ensmtp@pol.com> <36sll3$a2d@urvile.MSUS.EDU> <1994Oct6.112527.10994@scic.intel.com>
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In article <1994Oct6.112527.10994@scic.intel.com>, sbradley@scic.intel.com
(Seth J. Bradley) wrote:

> In article <36sll3$a2d@urvile.MSUS.EDU> hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
writes:
> >Why should I care if those not of my own kind are killed?  If you say I must
> >be concerned with the fate of the Jews, why should I not say you are a mur-
> >derer if you eat hamburgers and bacon?  Where does the line stop?  My
morality
> >is based on the principle that Good means beneficial to the Aryan
Race.  Your 
> >morality is not superior to mine because you expand the definition of _your_ 
> >"race" to include Jews. 
> 
> Hopefully you'll be looking at the November issue of Discover magazine.
> This issue is a special on the science of race. In it you will discover
> interesting facts, such as that humans only have a 0.2% genetic variance,
> and only 6% of this variance (0.012% total), can be attributed to race.
> Yep, sure seems like "race" is awfully important to me.......
> -- 
> Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SSD-CT
> Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
> ----------------------------------------
>    "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all"
>         - Firesign Theater

-----------------------------

Oh, how nice. You win the Politically Correct Techno Geek of the Year Award.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17156 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Thin jackets"
Date: 7 Oct 1994 02:07:04 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

GARBABE DELETED:

Heresay, all of it. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17281 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech & voiceprint analysis
Date: 9 Oct 1994 00:39:29 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 37
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References:  <36ok21$359@access4.digex.net>  <1994Oct05.114936.27458@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <1994Oct05.114936.27458@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>,
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) wrote:

> In article 
landpost@clark.net writes:
> 
> >In article <36ok21$359@access4.digex.net>, mstein@access4.digex.net
> >(Michael P. Stein) wrote:
> 
> >> >5 While Himmler made speeches in Poznan at this time, all revisionists
> >> >agree, this part of it is a simple forgery. 
>  
> >>     Funny, Faurisson doesn't say it's a forgery, just that it's a bit of 
> >> braggadocio.
>  
> >>     Greg Raven doesn't say it's a forgery, just that it doesn't really
> >> mean what it says - I guest somehow Himmler got Jews confused with
> >> partisans or something like that. 
>  
> >Staeglich says it is a forgery in his section on the Himmler speeches in
> >"Auschwitz: A Judge Looks at the Evidence." References from Faurisson and
> >I guess Raven will reply if he didn't say that.
> 
> So may we assume you'll kick in the balance of the money required
> for voiceprint analysis of the speech, to determine whether or not
> it is genuine? I have pledges totalling about $1500 already, so your
> half would be a positive step towards settling the issue... when can
> we expect your contribution towards this valuable historical
> research, Mr. McCarthy?
---------------------

You don't even know where this recording is, much less the approval to
take the recording to have it inspected. What a laugh.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17283 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation
Date: 9 Oct 1994 01:03:04 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 19
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References: <-54bk0yNU68E069yn@world.std.com>   <1994Oct7.114055.23012@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>
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In article <1994Oct7.114055.23012@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>,
stschulz@informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Schulz) wrote:


> The fact that this book "has stirred up some interest" is not to
> surprising: It was published by a major publisher and made _new_ and
> surprising allegations of interest to the general public. Pressac, on
> the other hand, did nothing but confirm en detail a number of well
> known points of very little interest to the general public.
> 
-------------------

Wrong. With the appearance of the mass-paperback edition, Pressac added
several appendixes which dealt with questions of documentation, etc. Good
stuff.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17285 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eine Frage fuer Herr Landpost (was Otto Ohlendorf Testifies. . .)
Date: 9 Oct 1994 01:19:13 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 31
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References: <36sbnj$iv7@cat.cis.brown.edu> <36u5pu$k1o@agate.berkeley.edu>
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In article <36u5pu$k1o@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> Coincidentally, I found the following passages regarding the Einsatzgruppen
> the other day.  Perhaps Mr. Landpost would be so kind as to translate them
> for us.  I'd be particularly interested in what he thinks "getoetet"
> and "exekutiert" mean.
> 
> --
> "Die Sonderkommando 4a hat in Zusammenarbeit mit Gruppenstab und zwei
> Kommandos des Polizei-Regiments Sued am 29. und 30.9.41 in Kiew
> 33771 Juden exekutiert."
> 
> "In der Berichtzeit wurden 11 037 Juden und 31 Kommunistische 
> Funkionaere und Saboteure exekutiert.  Gesamtzahl 31 767."
> 
> "Ich habe den Bericht von STAHLECKER (Dokument L-180) ueber Einsatzgruppe
> A gesehen, in welchem Stahlecker behauptet, dass seine Gruppe 135,000
> Juden und Kommunisten in den ersten vier Monaten der Aktionen getoetet
> hat.  Ich kannte Stahlecker persoenlich, und ich bin der Ansicht, dass
> das Dokument authentisch ist."
> -- 
-------------------------
33771, 11037, 135000. Approximately 180,000 "Juden" quoted here. Funny,
according to Hilberg there were only 175,000 to 200,000 in the entire,
gigantic Ukraine after Stalin's deportations, which of course were part of
the "scorched earth" policy. Your numbers, are therefore, ridiculous. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17286 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Landpost": A "REVISIONIST SCHOLAR" At Work
Date: 9 Oct 1994 01:22:20 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <36tucn$rl5@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> On 2 October 1994, he posted an "abbreviated" version of this
> letter. His article contained the following:
> 
> 
> 
> # Message-ID: 
> 
> # ...- for the most part old people, women and children - and the rest Jews
> # unfit for work, who had been mostly sent from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and
> # Berlin in November of last year to Minsk on the Fuehrer's orders.
> 
> 
> 
> He simply edited out the sentence "On 28 and 29 July about 10,000 Jews
> were liquidated in the city of Minsk, 6,500 of them Russian Jews".
> 
> And he replaced it with "...".
> 
----------------------------

I didn't replace the missing part of the sentence with anything. I used
the standard: ...  , which indicates that something precedes it. That was
obvious. Interestingly, when Stein posted a quote from this document
originally, he only quoted the parts about "liquidations" and the like. 

Again, when in Rome...



Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17298 of alt.revisionism
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From: maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eine Frage fuer Herr Landpost (was Otto Ohlendorf Testifies. . .)
Date: 09 Oct 1994 06:15:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
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In-reply-to: landpost@clark.net's message of 9 Oct 1994 01:19:13 GMT

In article  landpost@clark.net writes:
> In article <36u5pu$k1o@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
> (Richard Schultz) wrote:
> > Coincidentally, I found the following passages regarding the Einsatzgruppen
> > the other day.
> [passages cut -- v.s.]
>
> 33771, 11037, 135000. Approximately 180,000 "Juden" quoted here. Funny,
> according to Hilberg there were only 175,000 to 200,000 in the entire,
> gigantic Ukraine after Stalin's deportations, which of course were part of
> the "scorched earth" policy. Your numbers, are therefore, ridiculous. 

Two little problems, Tim: (1) there's nothing in the quotes to
indicate that the totals are separate (i.e. for all one can tell
reading Schulz's post, 135K was the total), and (2) if there were
200,000 Jews in the Ukraine, killing 180,000 is quite possible.
Where's the absurdity?  And given that there is none, why not answer
Richard's question?

	Vance


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Article: 17339 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attention Landpost!  (was: Oct. Deportations to Sobibor)
Date: 10 Oct 1994 01:42:08 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 25
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References: <1994Oct02.110003.2968@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <377v8e$br1@access3.digex.net>
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In article <377v8e$br1@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article , Thomas Doyal  wrote:
> >Those Germans must have had some rail system! Now I know my experience is 
> >limited to Amtrak except for some 40 et 8  wartime transportation in 
> >France and Belgium but the logistics of providing trains for 5000 people, 
> >collecting them, loading them, providing trains, locomotives.  But just 
> >consider what they had to do to move 5,000 is rediculuous. The European 
> >boxcars could hold 40 men or eight horses. That would amount to 124 
> >boxcars.  If a train was 10 cars long that would amount to 12 trains. To 
> >get 124 cars in and load them up and get them out of town in  one 
> >town in one day is doubtful. I deny it. In fact I think it is impossible.  
> >Use your head.  
> >The figures don't add up. More nonesense form the holocaust promoters.
> 
----------

Would you mind, Mike, translating this into English for me??? What the
heck is this guy trying to say?? What does this guy deny?? What is
impossible?? What figures don't add-up?? What nonsense? What holocaust
promoters?? I think I missed this thread. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17340 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech & voiceprint analysis
Date: 10 Oct 1994 01:46:05 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 18
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References:   <36ok21$359@access4.digex.net>  <1994Oct05.114936.27458@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
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In article , ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Gordon McFee) wrote:

> In a previous article, landpost@clark.net () says:
> >
> >You don't even know where this recording is, much less the approval to
> >take the recording to have it inspected. What a laugh.
> 
> In other words, you are afraid to take the challenge, right Timmie?
> 
--------------------

No, heck, I would like to do nothing more than see a group look into this
matter. But, unless you've got the keys to the top secret archives in
Moscow, I don't think anything can be done. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17341 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation
Date: 10 Oct 1994 01:47:17 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
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In article ,
landpost@clark.net wrote:

> In article <1994Oct7.114055.23012@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>,
> stschulz@informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Schulz) wrote:
> 
> 
> > The fact that this book "has stirred up some interest" is not to
> > surprising: It was published by a major publisher and made _new_ and
> > surprising allegations of interest to the general public. Pressac, on
> > the other hand, did nothing but confirm en detail a number of well
> > known points of very little interest to the general public.
> > 
> -------------------
> 
> Wrong. With the appearance of the mass-paperback edition, Pressac added
> several appendixes which dealt with questions of documentation, etc. Good
> stuff.
> 
> 
> Tim McCarthy
> landpost@clark.net
-----------------

I mixed-up my authors here. It should be: Bacque added several appendices...


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17342 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eine Frage fuer Herr Landpost (was Otto Ohlendorf Testifies. . .)
Date: 10 Oct 1994 01:51:46 GMT
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In article ,
maverick@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) wrote:

> In article 
landpost@clark.net writes:
> > In article <36u5pu$k1o@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
> > (Richard Schultz) wrote:
> > > Coincidentally, I found the following passages regarding the
Einsatzgruppen
> > > the other day.
> > [passages cut -- v.s.]
> >
> > 33771, 11037, 135000. Approximately 180,000 "Juden" quoted here. Funny,
> > according to Hilberg there were only 175,000 to 200,000 in the entire,
> > gigantic Ukraine after Stalin's deportations, which of course were part of
> > the "scorched earth" policy. Your numbers, are therefore, ridiculous. 
> 
> Two little problems, Tim: (1) there's nothing in the quotes to
> indicate that the totals are separate (i.e. for all one can tell
> reading Schulz's post, 135K was the total), and (2) if there were
> 200,000 Jews in the Ukraine, killing 180,000 is quite possible.
> Where's the absurdity?  And given that there is none, why not answer
> Richard's question?
> 
------

Vance, come on bud, give me a break. "Killing 180,000" by October 1941 is
nonsense. Also, the Germans give much lower statistics for the number of
Jews, like only 700 in Dnepr. I give Hilberg's numbers. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Eine Frage fuer Herr Landpost (was Otto Ohlendorf Testifies. . .)
Date: 10 Oct 1994 01:58:54 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 81
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In article <378qna$44n@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >In article <36u5pu$k1o@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
> >(Richard Schultz) wrote:
> >
> >> --
> >> "Die Sonderkommando 4a hat in Zusammenarbeit mit Gruppenstab und zwei
> >> Kommandos des Polizei-Regiments Sued am 29. und 30.9.41 in Kiew
> >> 33771 Juden exekutiert."
> >> 
> >> "In der Berichtzeit wurden 11 037 Juden und 31 Kommunistische 
> >> Funkionaere und Saboteure exekutiert.  Gesamtzahl 31 767."
> >> 
> >> "Ich habe den Bericht von STAHLECKER (Dokument L-180) ueber Einsatzgruppe
> >> A gesehen, in welchem Stahlecker behauptet, dass seine Gruppe 135,000
> >> Juden und Kommunisten in den ersten vier Monaten der Aktionen getoetet
> >> hat.  Ich kannte Stahlecker persoenlich, und ich bin der Ansicht, dass
> >> das Dokument authentisch ist."
> >> -- 
> >-------------------------
> >33771, 11037, 135000. Approximately 180,000 "Juden" quoted here. Funny,
> >according to Hilberg there were only 175,000 to 200,000 in the entire,
> >gigantic Ukraine after Stalin's deportations, which of course were part of
> >the "scorched earth" policy. Your numbers, are therefore, ridiculous. 
> 
> As usual, Mr. Landpost messes up on several accounts.  First of all, the
> third paragraph is from affidavit from Ohlendorf *after* the war while
> the first two are from reports *during* the war,


 so therefore the
> numbers to add are 33771 + 31767, which according to my (possibly
> non-Western) math is less than 135000.  Second, Ohlendorf is only
> talking about one Einsatzgruppe, while there is no indication in what
> I quoted that the two reports are from that Einsatzgruppe.

You didn't give this information. But, it doesn't matter.
> 
> In any event, Mr. Landpost does not seem to dispute that "exekutiert"
> and "getoetet" mean exactly what they say.

There was a war going on, remember??

  Which is going to be a
> problem for him, because none of the defendants ever denied the 
> authenticity of the "Operational Situation Reports" quoted above.

So?? We don't prove history in the courts.


> I find it interesting that at the beginning of the "Einsatzgruppen"
> trial (in volume IV of "Trials of the War Criminals"), the defendants'
> lawyers asked for the originals rather than photostats of the reports,
> which I interpreted as a preliminary to an attack on their 
> authenticity. 

The Allies would "never" forge documents, how silly.

> But at the end, none of them claimed that the reports
> were forgeries, as they might have. 

See above.

> Ohlendorf's lawyer claimed that 
> the numbers in the reports were exaggerated, 

He must be correct.


and he brings as his proof
> a quotation from. . . Himmler's Posen speeches.
> 
So what?? Which Posen speech? The one from Oct 4, 1943 that was presented
to the IMT in "written" form, the recording long since finding it's way to
Moscow (maybe)??

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17344 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The meaning of cowardice: A challenge to Milton Kleim
Date: 10 Oct 1994 02:18:12 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 83
Message-ID: 
References:  <36ui2a$i2j@info.census.gov> <371b0e$7k7@urvile.MSUS.EDU> <1994Oct07.185311.15033@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <1994Oct07.185311.15033@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>,
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) wrote:

> In article <371b0e$7k7@urvile.MSUS.EDU>, Milton Kleim, Nazi-wannabe,
> says:
> 
> >I have yet to be provided with any conclusive proof that these tapes are
> >extant, or that they _are_ the voice of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, if they do
> >exist.
> 
> Mr. Kleim, I offer you the same opportunity with regard to this
> matter that I have previously offered to all the rest of the deniers
> posting here: I will meet 50% of the cost of voiceprint analysis in
> order to determine, once and for all time, whether or not the speech
> in question was indeed made by Himmler. Over $1500 (US) has been
> pledged by readers here towards this end, none of it, I might add,
> from the stalwart "scholars" among the Holocaust deniers.
> 
> As to whether or not the tapes are "extant," Mr. Kleim, I refer you
> to my recent posting regard how to access the National Archives and
> their captured German sound recordings... (Anyone wishing to receive
> this article should send the command GET HOLOCAUST/BIBLIOGRAPHY
> BIBLIO.21 to LISTSERV@ONEB.ALMANAC.BC.CA) 
> 
> The announcement from the National Archives includes these speeches:
> 
> 12.   Himmler, Heinrich. "Speech to the SS Officers" ("Rede zu den SS
>       Fuhrern"). Posen, Oct. 4, 1943. Approx. 190 min. Item 242-256,
>       242-259, 242-257, 242-251, 242-252, 242-249, 242-264, 242-263,
>       242-250, 242-266, 242-180.
>       The speech has been published in IMT, Trial of the Major War
>       Criminals (Nuernberg, 1947-49), vol. 29, p. 110-173.
> 
> 13.   Himmler, Heinrich. "Speech to the Gauleiter" ("Rede auf der
>       Gauleitertagung"). Posen, Oct. 6, 1943. Approx. 32 min. Item 242-
>       189, 242-224. Incomplete. Only a very small section of the middle
>       of the speech is reproduced, according to text in Reichsfuhrer
>       SS. Personlicher Stab. Schriftgutverwaltung. Folder 63.  EAP 161-
>       b-12/82.  Tl75, roll 85, frames 2610152-200. Recording also
>       contains Wilhelm Schepmann's  speech of the same date (see entry
>       43). For further information, see entry 1, "Speeches to the
>       Reichs and Gauleitertagung."
> 
> 15.   Himmler, Heinrich. "Speech for 'Tag der Freiheit, Warthegau.'"
>       Posen, Oct. 24, 1943. Approx. 90 min. Item 242-204.
>       Comparison with text in Reichsfuhrer SS. Personlicher Stab. 
>       Schriftgutverwaltung.  Heft Nr. EAP  161-b-12/87. T175, roll 91,
>       frames 2613053-075, indicates the recording and wording of the
>       text match very closely. There are concluding remarks by
>       Gauleiter Arthur Greiser.
> 
> 18.   Himmler, Heinrich. "Speech to the Commanders of the
>       Ordnungspolizei and the Police Presidents" ("Rede zu den
>       Befehlshabern der Ordnungspolizei und den Polizeipraesidenten").
>       Hotel Ostland, Posen, Dec. 15, 1943. Approx. 72 min. Item 242-
>       217.
>       Incomplete. In a sequence of 41, discs 1-21 and 28 are missing.
>       Only notes are extant in Reichsfuhrer SS.  Personlicher Stab.
>       Schriftgutverwaltung. Heft Nr. 16. EAP 161-b-12/87. T175, roll
>       91, frames 2613159-162. Comparison with notes indicates that the
>       first half of the speech is missing from the recording.
> 
------------

This is all very impressive, however, the fact is that a)The National
Archives Sound Division is in College Park, MD, not Washington DC and it 
does not have any of Himmler speeches in either original or in fascimile
b) The National Archives are not going to let you put your grubby hands on
them, even if they had them, much less remove them for an independent
analysis. 

You seem to think that forgeries of speeches like this are not possible. I
refer you to the massive "Hitler Diaries", which were greeted by the media
as genuine. When this type of thing is possible, one must insist on the
very original recording of Himmler to verify, no copy on cassette or
reel-to-reel. 

Until we have that, and despite this bibliography above, we don't, then
you are the ones bluffing. Nice try.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17414 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 11 Oct 1994 00:42:28 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <37aiq1$4j3@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>, rice@servo.eng.sun.com
(Daniel Rice) wrote:

>   Interesting.  Greg Raven thinks we should consider all of Himmler's speeches
> in order to get the right context, landpost prefers that we go by dictionary
> definitions of the word itself, ignoring the context, and now Doubting Thomas
> says we should be considering it a syllable at a time.  Any other suggestions?
> 
>                                                 Dan

--------------

First of all, I've never had any dealings with you, I don't think, so
you've got some nerve using my name in your posting. I've never once said
that anyone should "ignoring the context". I'm the one, for example, who
first posted that the " mini-quotes" from Himmler's speech in Posen on 4
October 1943 are an IMT document and that it is 64 pages long in German. 

Also, the word "Ausrottung", I have suggested, can only be found in
context with the word "Judenevakuierung" nearby.

In conclusion, you must have confused my position with someone else, or
maybe you just made it up (oops, how silly, exterminationists would never
make something up).
 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17415 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Response to Smith (was: Re: Revisionism and Hitler)
Date: 11 Oct 1994 00:53:51 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <35fbdr$icm@newsbf01.news.aol.com> <35fp4u$oi4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <35pdev$k7v@picard.mitel.com>  <371ipi$47r@agate.berkeley.edu>
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In article <371ipi$47r@agate.berkeley.edu>, rothman@aesir.CS.Berkeley.EDU
(Jeffrey Rothman) wrote:

> There is a reason to believe gas chambers existed at Dachau.  Because they
> did.  I've seen them myself, and walked around inside them.  No mass gassings
> took place in those chambers, but they were operational and believed to have
> been used on a small scale.
> 
> Jeff Rothman  

----------

Yes, Jeff, to delouse clothing.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17484 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 13 Oct 1994 00:49:36 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article , uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Roessler 
Ulrich) wrote:


> From: "Ereignismeldung UdSSR Nr.151"  5.1.1942:
> 
> "Der Hoehere SS- und Polizeifuehrer in Riga, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer
> "Jeckeln, hat inzwischen eine Erschiessungsaktion in Angriff genommen
> "und am Sonntag, dem 30.11.41, ca. 4000 des Rigaer Ghettos und eines
> "Evakuierungstransportes aus dem Reich beseitigt.
> 
--------

That's not "Judenevakuierung" Herr Stasi. 

Also, Kleim and I are still waiting for your "slawische Untermenschen"
quotes from published sources. I know that the wait will be a long one.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17487 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass paperback edition of Pressac????
Date: 13 Oct 1994 01:01:44 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <-54bk0yNU68E069yn@world.std.com>  <1994Oct7.114055.23012@uklirb.informatik.uni-kl.de>  <3780hc$c57@access3.digex.net>
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In article <3780hc$c57@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >Wrong. With the appearance of the mass-paperback edition, Pressac added
> >several appendixes which dealt with questions of documentation, etc. Good
> >stuff.
> 
>     Huh?  When did this come out?  I've been lugging that 11"x17" 
> hardcover of "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers" to
> the photocopier for nothing? 
> 
>     And you're calling Pressac good stuff?
> 
>     Tim, can I quote you on that?
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.

----------------

I meant Bacque's mass paperback edition of "Other Losses." I posted a
correction in the same thread. 

No, I'm not calling Pressac's book good stuff, I'm calling Bacque's
numerous appendices good stuff. Too bad this material didn't make it into
the hardback edition.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17527 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A really cool book
Date: 14 Oct 1994 00:54:27 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <37i6cj$7rj@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

Still nothing about "slavische Untermenschen" or "subhuman Slavs" or
whatever nonsense you spout-out. Kleim and I are still waiting, however.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17572 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Poznan speech, in German and English
Date: 15 Oct 1994 00:50:13 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 58
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In article <37m9hv$3qv@access4.digex.net>, mstein@access4.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >The recording is not in the National Archives in College Park, MD.
> 
>     Given that the National Archives called me yesterday to confirm that 
> it is (call Mark at 301-713-7050 ext. 236 for confirmation; he's the 
> person with whom I spoke) one can only wonder how Tim arrived at this 
> conclusion.
> 
>     Tim, if you do call, you might mention my name to help Mark know what 
> you're talking about.  You seem to get things confused occasionally, and 
> do not express yourself well in any language.  Perhaps that's why you 
> were unable to locate the recording before.  (The fact that I had the 
> reference numbers probably helped.)
> 
> 
> >If it is, how about the reference number????? 
> 
>     I sent them exactly the paragraph Ken McVay posted, which came from an
> announcement sent out by NA.  (The reason the phone number is wrong is
> that it was sent before they merged the sound archives with the motion
> picture branch and moved it to College Park.) They seemed to have no
> trouble at all locating it from that information.  It did take them a few
> days to get back to me, however, even with the reference numbers in hand.
> 
>     They will be happy to sell you a copy at their standard fee of $12.95 
> per hour of material.
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.

------------

Thanks for the info, Mike. I've copied to disk and will procede on Monday
with ordering a copy. Still seems strange that this would be in an
American archive, as the Americans certainly did not "liberate" Poland or
Berlin, which are the first two places I would assume one would have found
this speech in 1945. 

But, I'm still interested in comparing this recording with what appears in
the IMT lexicon. And, I still don't think this is the original, but I'd
like to speak to this Mark to see what info he has about this.

By doing all of this, I'm going into it really way more than I'm
interested in this speech. But, maybe I can spin a small article off of it
or something.

As far as your cute comments about expression, well, although that's not
true, I guess one must be able to take it as well as dish it out. I'll get
you next time.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17574 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 15 Oct 1994 01:05:40 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article , uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Roessler 
Ulrich) wrote:

> >> From: "Ereignismeldung UdSSR Nr.151"  5.1.1942:
> >> 
> >> "Der Hoehere SS- und Polizeifuehrer in Riga, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer
> >> "Jeckeln, hat inzwischen eine Erschiessungsaktion in Angriff genommen
> >> "und am Sonntag, dem 30.11.41, ca. 4000 des Rigaer Ghettos und eines
>                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Correct reading:                      4000 Juden des Rigaer Ghettos.
> I apologize, I did unintentionally misquote this source.
> 
> >> "Evakuierungstransportes aus dem Reich beseitigt.
> >> 
> >--------
> 
> >That's not "Judenevakuierung" Herr Stasi. 
> 
> Well, it's "Evakuierungstransport", and this "Ereignismeldung" speaks
> again of the activities concerning the "Judenfrage".


The point is, it means to evacuate. There is no mention of "extermination"
here, which was and is my point.
 
> >Also, Kleim and I are still waiting for your "slawische Untermenschen"
> >quotes from published sources. I know that the wait will be a long one.
> 
> Don't worry, I'm waiting as well. You should first promise to throw out
> all "slawische Untermenschen" from your organisation, when I start to 
> post some sources about that. I only ask for a "ritterliches Grossehrenwort".
> My contribution to the wrecking of the North American Nazi movement
> will follow asap.

Yawn.

> 
> The brutal ideology isn't so interesting anyhow:
> In case you didn't notice it, the articles by several contributors
> about the criminal orders, the mass-death of Soviet POWs, and 
> the starvation campaign in Nazi-occupied Soviet Union were 
> already part of this project. 

These aren't published sources and are crude STASI/Soviet forgeries. 

 
> There are hardly better sources about the Nazis' views of the
> "vertierte Voelker des Ostens" [animalized Eastern peoples],
> who were apt only to be enslaved by the German Herrenmensch,
> than these orders and the reports about these crimes.
> 

Wrong. Kleim and I are not interested in these "reports". As far as your
new quote, you may add that to "slawische Untermenschen". 


Your pals SPD Scharping and PDS Jew-boy Gysi will not beat CDU Kohl/FDP on
Sunday, by the way. Maybe you think, you will have to wait another 4 years
until the next election for another opportunity to bolshevize all of
Germany. 

However, you will not have another chance.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 17575 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 15 Oct 1994 01:13:57 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 38
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In article , ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Gordon McFee) wrote:

> In a previous article, uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Roessler  Ulrich) says:
> >
> >>Also, Kleim and I are still waiting for your "slawische Untermenschen"
> >>quotes from published sources. I know that the wait will be a long one.
> >
> >Don't worry, I'm waiting as well. You should first promise to throw out
> >all "slawische Untermenschen" from your organisation, when I start to 
> >post some sources about that. I only ask for a "ritterliches Grossehrenwort".
> >My contribution to the wrecking of the North American Nazi movement
> >will follow asap.
> 
> Du solltest entweder ritterliche noch ehrliche Sachen von jenem Arschloch
> erwarten!
> 
> 
> --
> Gordon McFee ai292
> 
> I'll write no line before its time!

--------------------

McFee is once again demonstrating the lofty debating tactics of American
exterminationist swine.

He says to Mr. Roessler Ulrich: You should expect neither chivalrous nor
honest things from that asshole. 

McFee, only an *sshole like you would step-in to our debate with a
statement like that. I have a long memory McFee, and we will meet in
person one day.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user Mon Oct 17 04:29:22 PDT 1994
Article: 17656 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was Hitler a great man?
Date: 17 Oct 1994 00:59:01 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <1994Oct05.234523.1724@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <37j09r$ko6@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <37lcg2$3qo@netaxs.com>  
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In article , uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Roessler 
Ulrich) wrote:

> greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) writes:
> 
> >Like I said, I have no real interest in defending Hitler. However, 1) he
> >did pull Germany out of a deeper depression than America had, and he did it
> >in less time than FDR. 
> 
> What is your single best piece of evidence for this claim?

The German Revolution. Greenwood. London 1934.
> 
> 
> 2) The starting of the Second World War was the
> >result of Britain and France declaring war on Germany, not the other way
> >around. The transparency of their claimed desires for the autonomy of
> >Poland is obvious. Therefore, the wars against France and Britain, while
> >extremely regrettable, cannot be laid fully at Hitler's door. 
> 
> What is your single best piece of evidence for this claim?

The Forced War: When Peaceful Revision Failed. Hoggan.

> 
> >3) Had not
> >Hitler, virtually alone among the world leaders, accurately accessed the
> >danger of Soviet communism, ALL of Europe would have been part of the
> >Soviet Union, not just part of Germany (and the eastern countries). 
> 
> What is your single best piece of evidence for this claim?

Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War? Suvorow. London. 1991??

> 
> >                                                                     4)
> >Although there are some subjective factors involved, it must be admitted
> >that Hitler did gain the confidence of his people in a way that no other
> >20th century politician did, to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> What is your single best piece of evidence for this claim?

Ein anderer Hitler: Bericht seines Architekten Hermann Giesler. Munich
> 

I think that Herr Scharping and Herr Gysi will be seeking other types of
work, now that they lost they to Bundeskanzler Kohl. We're partying
tonight Stasi boy!

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user Mon Oct 17 04:29:23 PDT 1994
Article: 17657 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Holocaust could be so proved?
Date: 17 Oct 1994 01:24:20 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
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In article <37rcha$eqv@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, annya666@aol.com (AnnyA666)
wrote:

> In article <37o1he$j54@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, podsnap@aol.com (Podsnap)
> writes:
> 
> >  All we need to do is dig up a few remains and find out if there's any
> >poisonous residue that would lend credibility to the notion that these
> >folks were poisoned.  
> 
> Overly simplistic, Madame.  A bit of research would tell you that all
> victims of the Holcocaust were not gassed.  Of those who were gassed, many
> of them were killed by asphyxiation, carbon monoxide and/or carbon
> dioxide.  Of those gassed by Zyklon B (Hydrogen cyanide), most were
> cremated.  In any case, HCN readily dissipates  when exposed to the
> elements.

--------

I can't tell you how great of a laugh I get when I read this type of thing
from exterminationists. Oh, I really like the references he gives, too!! 

Without them, one might think you just make this stuff up right off the
top of your head. Nah, couldn't be.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user Thu Oct 20 15:45:59 PDT 1994
Article: 17740 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Oct. 4 speech, take 15
Date: 18 Oct 1994 23:36:39 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 39
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In article <37rfq7$fkp@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, annya666@aol.com (AnnyA666)
wrote:

> In article , greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
> (Greg Raven) writes:
> 
> 
> >At 18:32 10/13/94 -0400, Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> 
> >By the way, are you planning on mentioning Usenet happenings in the
> >Journal?
> 
> >>We are planning some sort of article relating to revisionism and the
> >>Internet, yes.
> 
> Oh, I hope you guys don't do that!  Whenever you write about getting
> deniers online, every looney-tune wack-o crawls out of the woodwork and
> clutters up Cyberspace with half-baked conspiracy theories.  Show a little
> responsibility, won't you.? 
> 
> If you let the worms out of the can, at least make an attempt to see that
> facts are presented correctly and untruths are rebutted.  I've seen folks
> online who read JHR yet hold positions even you guys admit are false. 
> Will you take responsibilty for that?  A girl on Prodigy, for instance,
> regularly quotes IHR literature.  She also beleives that the Protocols of
> the ELders of Zion are the truth and that Anne Frank's diary was written
> in ball-point pen.  Of course you can't be responsible for her
> misinformation, but when you send out an invitation to your readers to
> come join the fun, you should try to keep things fair, don't you think?

-------------

Well, this is a first. An AOLer(in) flaming netters for bringing people
onto the net. 

I think I've really heard it all now. Wow!!

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user Sun Oct 23 14:55:03 PDT 1994
Article: 17937 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler's Oct. 4 speech, take 15
Date: 21 Oct 1994 23:18:08 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 21
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In article <384888$6b8@newsbf01.news.aol.com>, annya666@aol.com (AnnyA666)
wrote:

> In article ,
> landpost@clark.net writes:
> 
> >>Well, this is a first. An AOLer(in) flaming netters for bringing people
> >>onto the net. 
> 
> Yes, I know we "AOLer"s are second class citizens here on the net...but if
> it weren't for us, you wouldn't have a lot to feel superior about, Eh, Mr.
> Landpost?  Consider it my contribution to your emotional well-being 

------------

When are you going to start signing your posts?? That is how we do things
here on the net.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user Sun Oct 23 14:55:04 PDT 1994
Article: 17941 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A really cool book
Date: 21 Oct 1994 23:31:02 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 18
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References: <37i6cj$7rj@agate.berkeley.edu>  <385qus$n9o@sun1000.ci.pwr.wroc.pl>
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In article <385qus$n9o@sun1000.ci.pwr.wroc.pl>,
pankiewicz@sun1000.ci.pwr.wroc.pl (Jerzy Pankiewicz) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net wrote:
> : Still nothing about "slavische Untermenschen" or "subhuman Slavs" or
> : whatever nonsense you spout-out. Kleim and I are still waiting, however.
> 
> Fuck off, you idiot.
>                  Jerzy Pankiewicz, the Slave

------------------------

Another wonderful contribution from the exterminationist camp. 

Would you mind explaining your position to those of us in alt.revisionism?? 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user Sun Oct 23 14:55:05 PDT 1994
Article: 17945 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A triumverate of wishful thinking
Date: 21 Oct 1994 23:45:04 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References:  <386kjo$n4k@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
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In article <386kjo$n4k@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> Greg Raven  wrote:
> 
> # Your first "evidence" is the Himmler speech, with which I have dealt
> # repeatedly, and which I have conclusively shown not to have referred to gas
> # chambers.
> 
> While Himmler didn't go into the details, he did tell a group
> of top SS officers that "we are exterminating the Jews". He added
> that the Jewish women and children have to be killed also, in
> order to "make this people disappear from the earth".
> 
> One has to be a real moron, or absolutely crazy, to hear this
> speech and still claim that the Nazis didn't have a plan to
> exterminate the Jews.
> 
> Himmler, BTW, goes on to talk about Slavs and Russians as 
> sub-human animals, to be used for labor. He doesn't say that
> there is a plan to exterminate them, but says that he
> doesn't care if "10,000 Russian females fall from exhaustion
> while digging an anti-tank ditch for Germany". 
> 
> I'll post in the next messages the relevant quotes from Himmler's
> speeches at Poznan.
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.

------------

Keren, you or none of the exterminationists here has ever heard one
sentence of the alleged 190 minute speech of Himmler. We'll see what it
says when the copies arrive from the National Archive. 

We'll also see just how much the speech differs from the text that
appeared in the IMT, which is what you are referring to here.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

p.s. I'm already suspicious about this speech after speaking to the
archivist. He said, after my questioning which had him rattled, that the
recording was found "in a barn somewhere in Germany" and who found
precisely is not known. How nice.

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