The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Article: 15024 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
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Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 16 Aug 1994 23:00:03 GMT
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In article <32pvpr$a85@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

>  wrote:
> 
> # You must be a total moron. A "Reinigung" is a laundromat, you imbecile.
> # "Ausrotten" means to root-out someone or something. 
>

 According to my dictionary, "ausrottung" means "extermination", and
> "ausrotten" means "eradicate".
>
 So, a maggot from Brown U. wants to take me on. Lovely 
>Since you are obviously the pampered son of a well to do family attending
Brown, I suggest you buy a new dictionary. Ausrottung can mean what you
claim, but also means "to root out." The word your little conformist brain
seeks is "vernichten" and "das Vernichtungslager." 

 # If you want exterminations, McVay, then what happened in your favorite
> # conversation pieces of Sachsenhausen and Buchenwald between 1945 and
> # 1950??
> 
> Can you post your evidence for what you claim happened?
> 
You mean the great "scholars" at Brown haven't introduced these statistics
into this "great hall of learning?" I am appalled. What do you want? In
the meantime, ask somebody who has been to the new wing of the
Sachsenhausen museum outside of Berlin. One of those backpack toting
trampers from the Oi Vey League has probably been there.  

> # Why does the huge industrial center that your sick little mind calls
> # Auschwitz 
> 
> You mean there was no place called Auschwitz? How strange. Is this
> the new breakthrough in "Holocaust revisionism"? 

I mean the perception, that this was such a place of horror, that the
imbecile Mcvey imagines. 

> 
> # lie on the border of the Gen.Gov. of Poland?? Hint: Auschwitz is
> # 20 km from the Gedob border.
> 
> So what?
> 
So what? Is the best a Brown man can do about this very important fact??
If one wants to build this great "extermination camp i.e.
Vernichtungslager, one doesn't do it where it will clutter up the traffic
on the railroad nets between east and west. One builds it on a dead end
and out of the way of the Gedob border. 


> # Why does Treblinka lie directly on the border of Gen.Gov. Poland and the
> # Great German Reich?? HInt: Because it is a transit camp between the Gedob
> # and the Reich. 
> 
> The problem with this theory is that it is not supported by anyone
> who was in Treblinka.

What do you mean "this theory?" Get out your map and locate Treblinka.
There will then be nothing theoretical about it. Treblinka was
"\bergangslager" between the two railroad nets Gedob and Reich proper.  


> # Why does Sobibor lie on the border between Gen.Gov.Po. and
> # Reichskommissariat Ukraine?? Hint: Because it is a transit camp between
> # the G.G. and GVD (Generalverkehrsdirektion Osten)
> 
> The problem with this theory is that it is not supported by anyone
> who was in Sobibor.
> 
>
The problem with your statement is that one doesn't prove history in the
courts, any courts, much less the outrageous sham "war crimes trials"
which I presume you refer to. Again, this is no theory. Get out a German
Army map, and you will quickly learn that Sobibor is directly on the
borders of the Gedob and GVD Osten. 



 # Why does Belzic lie on the original border of the G.G. ie. the one before
> # the G.G. was enlarged after Germany successfully foiled your pals in the
> # Soviet Union's 3 million man attack on the German Reich and presumably
> # thereafter, the rest of western Europe?? 
> 
> Er, ah, the Nazis attacked the USSR first.
> 
>Really? I guess that's why the holy Soviets were not exactly in what one
would call a defensive posture on the border of the GG at the time. And
gee, I guess that's why Stalin had more parachutists than all other
countries put together in 1941.Already by 13 June 1941, all engines of war
in the Soviet Union were well into action. The deployment of the Soviet
forces had gone so far that thousands in Soviet circles had already been
led into secrets of extraordinary importance. The Soviet Union passed the
point of no return in the middle of June 1941. After that, war was
inevitable. If Hitler had decided to launch Operation B. a few weeks
later, the Red Army would have been in Berlin much earlier than 1945. 


 Why are you assuming that the Soviets are/were McVay's "pals"? You
> don't sound like a sane person, I am sorry to say.
> 
> # Hint: It was an earlier transit
> # camp before the outbreak of your "good war." 
 
> The problem with this theory is that it is not supported by anyone
> who was in Belzec.
> 
>
See, the second comment above.

 Where are the documents detailing the transfer of millions of
> Jews to the East? Where are the people who saw this alleged transfer
> and testified about it? Where are all these Jews now? Where are all
> the documents detailing their "resettling" process? 
> 
> # Therefore, when a shipment reached the border of the Gedob, they had to be
> # quartered in a transit camp before they were picked up by the next admin.
> # to be transported further to the east.

> Again:
> 
> Where are the documents detailing the transfer of millions of
> Jews to the East? Where are the people who saw this alleged transfer
> and testified about it? Where are all these Jews now? Where are all
> the documents detailing their "resettling" process? 
> 
Gee, I guess there haven't been hundreds of thousands of Jew immigrants to
the USA from the former USSR, places like Minsk, Moscow, etc. since the
1970's. Gee, I guess all those immigrants to occupied Palestine from
Europe were really exterminated Jews, who, like the famous Jesus, came
back to life. 

Documents. Not even exterminationist bozos deny that Jews were being
transported eastwards. 
But, okay, since you want to play this game, here's a start for you. For a
time table of transports of the Reichsbahn to Wei_ Ru_land, see " Mit der
Reichsbahn in den Tod: Massentransporte in den Holocaust 1941 to 1945,"
pages 70 -74, by Heiner Lichtenstein, Kvln 1985. 
And, gee, it's not even written by a nasty revisionist.

Testimonies? Haven't you read the most treasured compilation of every
exterminationist, the IMT Tribunals?? 
Here's one: A letter from Generalkommissar Kube to the Reichskommissar for
Ostland Lohse from 31 July 1942. They talk about a transport of 1000 Jews
from Warwaw which arrived on this same day in Minsk. IMT, Bd. XXVII,
1472-PS, pgs. 251ff. (German edition)
Oh, don't tell me you can't read the sources in their original. Typical
exterminationist, just like the Dawdowicz lady or however you spell it. 

 
 Why did the following happen in a "transit camp"?
> 
> Testimony of SS private Boeck:
> [Extracted from "Der Auschwitz Prozess", by Hermann Langbein,
> Vol. I, quoted in "Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas 
> chambers - J.C Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989,
> p. 181].
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q: were you present at a gassing operation one day?
> 
> A: Yes, it was one evening. I accompanied the driver Hoeblinger. A
>    transport had arrived from Holland and the prisoners had to
>    jump from the wagons. They were well-off Jews. There were
>    women with Persian furs. They arrived by express train. The
>    trucks were already there, with wooden steps before them, and
>    the people climbed aboard. Then they all started off. In the
>    place Birkenau once stood, there was only a long farmhouse
>    (Bunker 2) and beside it four or five big huts. Inside, the
>    people were standing on clothes which were building up on
>    the floor. The block leader and the sergeant, carrying a cane,
>    were there. Hoeblinger said to me 'lets go over there now'. There
>    was a sign 'to disinfection'. He said 'you see, they are bringing
>    children now'. They opened the door, threw the children in
>    and closed the door. There was a terrible cry. A member of the
>    SS climbed on the roof. The people went on crying for about
>    ten minutes. Then the prisoners opened the doors. Everything
>    was in disorder and contorted. Heat was given off. the bodies
>    were loaded on a rough wagon and taken to a ditch. The next 
>    batch were already undressing in the huts. After that I didn't
>    look at my wife for four weeks.
>
> 
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.


LOL. You are joking by using this quote!! Ha, that's a good joke. That a
way to keep the debate from getting heated. Really, good humor. See
comment above about proving history in trials.


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Article: 15056 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Rabbi Nadich - Revisionist
Date: 18 Aug 1994 22:59:03 GMT
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Well, I've posted some grist for the cream of America's intellectual,
extermanionist crop (sic), these great intellects from Brown, Cal
Berkeley, etc., and I don't see a single coherent argument to anything
that I've posted. The Brown researcher, who said "So what?" to my posting
that Auschwitz was a transit camp on the border of the Gedob (20 km from
it), he went after and posted the only thing that extermanionists have,
testimonies from war crimes trials. Well, here is some "testimony" for all
of you brilliant scholars. By the way, I knew that there was a total
intellectual poverty on America's college campuses, one could call it even
depravity, but after reading your posts, I can only conclude it is even
worse there than I had ever thought. 

What happened to all of those deported to Wei_ru_land Jews, asks the Brown
researcher. Rabbi Judah Nadich inadvertantly provides some hinsight while
responding to a review in this week's NYT Book Review. Thanks, rabbi!!!
Remarks in parentheses are mine, not the good Rabbi's. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


New York Times Book Review 
August 21, 1994
Letters to the Editor


Ike and Monty

1st paragraph not included.....

After the Nazi concentration camps in Europe were liberated (sic), General
Eisenhower appointed me (Rabbi Judah Nadich) his adviser on Jewish affairs
to help improve the lot of the survivors in the American zone. The leaders
of London's Jewish community pleaded with Gen. Montgomery to create a
similiar post on his staff to help the survivors in the British zone of
Germany. He refused.

Later, thousands (actually hundreds of thousands) of Jews from Poland and
the Baltic countries, having returned to their former homes to discover
that both their homes and their businesses had been seized by erstwhile
neighbors who threatened them with death, began flowing across borders
into the British and American zones of Germany for succor. Montgomery
issued orders to his troops to bar such Jews from entering the British
zone. Eisenhower gave the command to permit their entry into the displaced
persons camps in the American zone. Tens of thousands of Jews lives were
thus rescued. 

Rabbi Judah Nadich
New York 


For more stories of "exterminated by Nazis" Jewish families who emigrated
to the USA from the USSR, see "Line Five: The Internal Passport: Jewish
Family Odysseys from the USSR to the USA." Edited by Elaine Pomper
Snyderman and Thomas Witkovsky. Chicago Review Press.

or: No Words to Say Goodbye by Raimonda Kopelnitsky & Kelli Pryor.
Hyperion. "the autobiography of a young Soviet Jewish woman as she travels
from her homeland to the U.S."


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Article: 15093 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Stalin's Attack on W. Europe Document #1
Date: 19 Aug 1994 18:31:42 GMT
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Stalin's Attack on Western Europe: Document #1

All of the "scholars" in alt.revisionism are unaminous in their
astonishment to the fact that the entire Soviet Union had been under a
gigantic attack build-up for Western Europe as early as 1939 already. This
astonishment alone shows the darkness and intellectual poverty of
America's research-history school and the people who it influences.
Unfortunately, that group includes America's intellectually defenseless
schoolchildren. This crime being committed daily on these little children
by America's "scholars" will not be forgotten, I can assure you, if a day
ever comes when we can settle the score with you vermin. 

>"The west, with its imperialist ogres, has become a center of darkness
and slavery. The >task is to destroy this center, to the joy and relief of
the workers."
>STALIN, Zhizn Narsional' nosti, No. 6 (1918)

In 1933, the German colonel (later General) Heinz Guderian visited a
Soviet locomotive engineering works at Kharkov. Guderian saw that, in
addition to locomotives, the yard was producing tanks as a side product.
The tanks were being produced at the rate of 22 a day. Germany was
producing no tanks at all at this time. In 1939, Germany came into the
Second World War with 3,195 tanks, that is, less than the Kharkov
locomotive engineering works, working on a peacetime footing, produced in
six months. 

What of the quality of the tanks which Guerdian saw at the Kharkov
engineering works?? They were tanks which had been created by that
American tank genius, J.W. Christie. Nobody, apart from the Soviet tank
makers, appreciated Christie's achievements. One of Christies's American
tanks was sent to the Soviet Union under false documentation: the tank was
described as an "agricultural tractor." The "tractor", was then produced
in large numbers in the Soviet Union as a Mark BT - initials for the
Russian words "high-speed tank." The first Mark BT's had a speed of 100
kilometers per hour. In the present day, there is not a tank crew anywhere
which would not envy such a speed. 

...(author goes on to detail the improvements and qualities of these "tractors')

Having said so many positive things about the quality and numbers of these
Soviet tanks, one must note one minor drawback. It was impossible to use
these tanks on Soviet territory. 

...To the question, where could the enourmous potential of these Mark BT
be successfully realized, there is only one answer: in central and
southern Europe. The only territories where tanks could be used, after
their caterpillar tracks had been removed, were Germany, France and
Belgium. The most important characteristic of the Mark BT, speed, is
attained on wheels. Caterpillar tracks were only a means for reaching
foreign territory. Then, they were ready for motorways, on wheels. 
Operation Barbarossa found practically all of the Mark BT tanks cast aside
by the hastily retreating Red Army. The Kremlin never got to use them on
wheels. It is said that Stalin's tanks were not ready for war. That was
not so. They were not ready for a defensive war on their own territory.
They were, however, designed to wage war on others. 

From: Icebreaker:Who Started the Second World War." Victor Suvorov. 1990.
London.
pp. 14. - 18. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net
no e-mail please about these debates. Let's duke it out where all can read.
Thank-you.


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Article: 15095 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Date: 19 Aug 1994 18:35:48 GMT
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A Revisionist Replies to Michael P. Stein: ie. Who Liked Uncle Joe?


We are determined that nothing shall stop us from sharing with you all
that we have...
--Harry Hopkins, at the Russian Aid Rally, Madison Square Garden, June 1942.


>Michael P. Stein, mstein@access.digex.net writes:

>Um, not to interrupt you when you're on a roll, but with the possible
exceptions of Gus >Hall and Angela Davis, I can't think of anyone in the
US who thinks Stalin was a nice >guy. In fact, after Kruschev spilled a
few beans, most Russians didn't think too highly of >him either. Since
nobody seems to be debating this point, may I ask you why you >brought it
up? (i.e. the extermination of between 210,000 and 230,000  Germans in
>Sachsenhausen, Buchenwald, Jamlitz, Funfeichen, Ketschendorf and at least
7 other >
>Soviet Special Camps between 1945 and 1950).

First of all, I wanted to show who was really exterminated in these camps,
the Germans, and the fact that it has been a well kept secret, I mean, I
know there is no mention of this activity of America's ally in the
so-called "Holocaust Museum" in Washington. Why not??
To read more about this, my presses latest book sensation is now
available. See my other post. 

To the idea that no-one in the USA liked Uncle Joe except 2 people doesn't
fit with the facts. Why, then, did the American people work their fingers
to the bone, tighten their belts on the consumption of many materials,
accept dictatorial war ecomic boards, etc. in order to supply the Soviet
Union with  over $11,000,000,000 (no typo, 11  billion in 1945 value) in
materials and supplies. They supplied everything from Uncle Joe's pipe
(really), to Moscow's amusement park, to enough copper wire (very rare and
valuable in WW II) to go around the Earth 50 times, to the methods,
equipment and precious materials to begin the Soviet's dangerous nuclear
weapon's program. Today's value for this astronomical figure is at least
$110,000,000,000 (110 billion). Mr. Stein, millions of Americans liked
Uncle Joe. Let's investigate a little America's lend lease program. Also,
the Kremlin was able to suppress many revolts against it's awesomely evil
power with the materials supplied from the USA. Ain't America beautiful.
Amen. 

An Overview of Lend Lease  (all figures in 1945 value)

Munitions         $4,651,582,000    49%
Non-Munitions $4,826,084,000   51%

Total                  $9,477,666,000   100%

The eleven billion figure includes "services" as well as the cited above
"shipments or goods transferred." For example, the USA spent $127 millions
for "servicing and repairs to Soviet ships"; this would appear in the
eleven billion figure but not in the 9 1/2 billion figure of goods shipped
above. 

Munitions

What exactly is meant by munitions? 

1. Aircraft and parts                      $1,652,236,000
2. Motor vehicles and parts             1,410,616,000
3. Ordnance and ammunition             814,493,000
4. Tanks and parts                               478,398,000
5. Water craft*                                    295,839,000

Total                                            $4,651,582,000

* In addition to a merchant fleet, the USA gave the Kremlin 581 naval vessels.

All Non-Munitions

Petroleum Products                      $ 111,075,000
Agricultural Products                    1,674,586,000
Industrial Materials & Products    3,040,423,000

Total                                            $4,826,084,000

By the way, all of this material, I repeat, ALL OF IT was loaded onto
planes and ships by AMERICAN CIVILIANS and all of it produced freely by
American firms and farmers. 

Of Treasury Printing Plates and that "Heavy Water"

Every American would believe the following statement to be 100% true: "The
United States Treasury has never made currency plates available to
anybody." That is believed because the details of America's Lend-Lease
Program to the Soviet Union in WWII are still a well-kept secret. 

On February 15, 1944, Moscow had this to say to Washington: "The
Commissariat for Finance considers that in preparing the currency for the
occupation of Germany it would be more correct to print a part of it in
the Soviet Union in order that a constant supply of currency may be
guaranteed to the Red Army... It will be necassary to furnish the
Commissariat for Finance, in order that the M-Marks may be of identical
design, with plates of all denominations, a list of serial numbers, and
models of paper and colors for printing."

On April 14, 1944, Secretary of the United States Treasury Henry
Morgenthau, Jr., sent a memo to the Soviet Ambassador which said:
There will be shipped from Washington on Tuesday, April 8, glass negatives
and positives of all plates used for printing M-Marks. The designs are in
negative and positive form since it is not known which is preferred by the
Soviet Government." He ended by saying: "The United States Treasury is
desirous to cooperate with the Soviet Government in this matter in every
possible way."

Why was Russia so intent on printing German occupation currency without
accountability? The answer is quite simple. They knew that the United
States Army would convert such currency into dollars. Russia, of course,
refused to redeem the same currency with roubles. As a result, every
Russian-made Mark that fell into the hands of an American soldier or
accredited civilian became a potential charge against the Treasury of the
United States.
Russia could pay its occupation army in Marks, and in fact did so, adding
a two-year bonus for good measure. If the Red Army could get anything out
of the German economy with these Marks, all well and good. If they could
get anything out of America, even better. In any event, these Marks cost
the Russian economy nothing whatsoever. With the materials provided from
Washington, they took over a former German printing plant in Leipzig, deep
in the Russian zone, at a safe distance from American inspection, and
started the presses rolling. 
Any G.I. could buy a pack of cigarettes for 8 cents at a United States
Army Post Exchange. For this the Russian and German black-markets would
offer him 100 Marks from the Leipzig mint. To realize a profit of almost
$10 on an 8-cent package of cigarettes, the American had only to take his
100 Leipzig Marks to an Army Post Office, purchase a $10 money order and
mail it to the United States. It was revealed that the standard offer for
a five-cent candy bar was 50 Marks, or $5; $18 for one pound of coffee,
and $2,500 for a wrist watch costing $17.
By December 1946, the United States Military Government found itself
$250,000,000 or more in the red. It had redeemed in dollars at least
2,500,000,000 Marks in excess of the total Marks issued by its Finance
Office!!! The deficit could have had no other origin than the Russian
plant in Leipzig. 
Thus, for the war crimes committed by the Red Army in eastern Germany, the
most hideous war crimes ever committed, the government of the United
States paid each Red Army soldier a two-year bonus. The total paid to the
Red Army was $250, 000,000, a quarter of a billion dollars in 1946 value.
In today's terms, that would be well over two billion dollars.

"Heavy Water"

All figures and quotes, includind this one, taken from:"From Major
Jordan's Diary" by George Racey Jordan. 1952. LC Catalog # - 52-6448.

Major Jordan from a Soviet plane on the runway of the airport at Great
Falls, Montana:

"I gave orders to repack the cargo. It may be that Sergeant Vinogradsky
pointed to the wrong entry, or that crewman mistook the line to which his
finger pointed. At any rate, one of them astonished me by asking: "What is
it -- that heavy water stuff?" 

"Heavy water?" I echoed, for I had never heard the expression. Yes, said
the (American) worker, that was what listed on the manifest. Thereafter,
for all of us, such carboys were "heavy water," on this and other
transports. Many times I heard the shout: "Be careful of that heavy
water!" 

..."What is popularly known as heavy water is technically called deuterium
oxide. 

..."Except for curious experiments in retarding plant growth, heavy water
boasts only one useful property: it is the best of moderators for slowing
down the speed of neutrons in nuclear reactions." 

Atomic Materials given to the Kremlin by the USA (from Jordan's book)

Beryllium metals              9,681 lbs.      $      10,874.
Cadmium alloys           72,535 lbs.                70,029.
Cadmium metals           834,989 lbs.            781,466.
Cobalt ore & concentrate 33,600 lbs.            49,782.
Cobalt metal & scrap      806,941 lbs.           1,190,774.
Uranium metal                 2.2 lbs.                   --
Aluminum tubes            13,766,472 lbs.       13,041,152.
Graphite, natural, flake   7,384,282 lbs.          812,437.
Beryllium salts                      228 lbs.                775.
Cadmium oxide                   2,100 lbs.               3,080.
Cadmium salts                    2 lbs.                       19.
Cadmium sulfate              2,170 lbs.                   1,374.
Cadmium sulfide               16,823 lbs.              17,380.
Cobalt oxide                        17,800 lbs.              34,832.
Cobalt salts                           11,475 lbs.             7,112.
Cobaltic sulfate                      22 lbs.                     25.
Deuterium oxide (heavy water)  1,100 grs.          ---
Thorium salts                        25,352 lbs.              32,580.
Uranium nitrate                       500 lbs.                  ---
Uranium nitrate (U02)           220 lbs.                    ---
Uranium oxide                        500 lbs.                   ---
Uranium, urano-uranic oxide (U308) 200 lbs.       ----


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

For a list of revisionist published by Landpost Press:
send S.A.S.E.
Landpost Press
PO Box 480
Ocean City, MD 21842
USA


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Article: 15118 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 19 Aug 1994 18:35:48 GMT
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From: landpost@clark.net
>...

The problem with this post is that where there is no need for great
detail there is even more detail than that, and where there is need
for some detail there is none at all.

Thus the tables outlining aluminum tubes and other so-called "atomic
materials" details who knows what (2lbs of uranium? that's not much
uranium, there are plentiful uranium mines w/in the Soviet Union)?

And sentences like:

>Thus, for the war crimes committed by the Red Army in eastern Germany, the
>most hideous war crimes ever committed

Are left hanging and without any explanation of what they are
referring to.

At any rate, it's certainly no great surprise that the US and USSR
were allies against Nazi Germany in the period 1941-44. Thus, to
detail that the US helped their allies with valuable assets seems
trite at best, unless you just thought it meant that they spoke
encouraging words to each other.

Perhaps this would all be a bit more understandable if you stated your
thesis and then proceeded to provide your evidence in support of this
thesis.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 15119 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: To Mr. Danny Keren: Why don't you reply...
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 19 Aug 1994 18:53:48 GMT
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From: landpost@clark.net
>My policy is that I would like to see the original German document or a
>facsimile directly from the Arhive where it is to be found. 
>
>Since you don't have that, I would accept the German version found in
>whatever war crimes trials that they are quoting from in this book, where
>this forged document was probably presented against defendant(s). Failing
>that, I'll take the German version of this document from which you are
>translating from. 

Sheer speculation, perhaps Mr McCarthy will provide us with why he
believes these are, to quote a hackneyed phrase on this list,
Forgeries All Forgeries. Other than that the documents don't suit his
personal political slant.

>Although, I've never heard exterminationists claim Nazi extermination
>camps in Weiss Russland before!!!! I mean, why send them there to be
>exterminated when, according to you, there were perfectly good ones
>functioning all over the Reich. 

Oh gack another tired run at the old ``The Nazis were perfectly
efficient and anything that does not seem perfectly sensible and
efficient to my guardedly limited knowledge of the matter shall be
denied''.

If you'd been paying attention "exterminationists" generally agree
there were no MASS extermination facilities at all in the Altreich
(plus or minus the euthanasia sites.)

That's not to say many didn't die in places like Dota or Dachau from
forced labor and horrendous conditions. But a mass extermination
facility such as Auschwitz or Birkenau is a particular
thing. Revisionists of course have twisted this view over and over to
imply that nothing nasty occurred in the Altreich, which is hardly the
truth either.

Besides, who is sending? You mean there were none of their
"untermenschen" in Weiss Russland? Or closer to Weiss Russland than,
say, Berlin? Further, why build Auschwitz and Birkenau &c in such
inconvenient places, following your reasoning.

Failure to understand reality is rarely reality's fault.

Perhaps you need to view these seeming contradictions as questions
rather than evidence of anything.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 15125 of alt.revisionism
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From: flax@Krille.update.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 20 Aug 1994 13:57:50 GMT
Organization: Update, Uppsala Student Computer Club, Uppsala, Sweden
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In-reply-to: landpost@clark.net's message of 16 Aug 1994 01:51:19 GMT


>From my swedish-german wordlist, dated cirka 1930.

(Note: I have translated "purge" as the verb "rena", "exterminate" as
"utrota")

"Rena" - "reinigen"
"Utrota" - "ausrotten", "vertilgen"

Now, instead of pretending the "Reinigung" is completely wrong, why
not give foreigners a break when it comes to language. As it now
stands you hang yourself, using your own rope.

As for the rest of the post, trying to shift the focus to the post-war
treatment of the German people, which apart from being quite well
documented, is not really the issue being discussed, I'll let it be,
as others have posted enough on that.
--
Safe PGP key fingerprint =  A7 FA 4D 35 73 0E DB 65  69 D5 D4 E1 02 E6 91 E2 
Unix PGP key fingerprint =  0D 22 64 4D 05 35 53 BA  83 56 7B 56 C6 61 D4 A7 
DNA sequence fingerprint =  0E 21 45 FA 7A 11 34 FE  ED DE AD BE EF 8F 10 71
DNA copyright 1962 - 1994 by Jonas Flygare, Copyright yours before IBM does.


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Article: 15131 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Only Two Americans Liked Uncle Joe? Revisionist Reply Part II
Date: 20 Aug 1994 19:23:02 GMT
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A Revisionist Replies to Michael P. Stein: ie. Who Liked Uncle Joe? Part II


"Who cared what we (the Soviets) took? Had we taken the Empire State
Building and put it on a ship, nobody would have cared!"
      
            -- Comrade Victor A. Kravchenko, during questioning by the
counsel for                 the House of Representatives Committee on
Un-American                         Activities (sic), Frank  S. Tavenner,
Jr. (Kravchenko defected and                  authored the book, "I Chose
Freedom")


>Michael P. Stein, mstein@access.digex.net writes:

>Um, not to interrupt you when you're on a roll, but with the possible
exceptions of Gus >Hall and Angela Davis, I can't think of anyone in the
US who thinks Stalin was a nice >guy. In fact, after Kruschev spilled a
few beans, most Russians didn't think too highly of >him either. Since
nobody seems to be debating this point, may I ask you why you >brought it
up? 


Really, Mikey?? This statement of yours places your exterminationist
viewpoint into serious question, without even beginning to examine that
situation. It shows a man, you, his peers in alt. revisionism, his
establishment and his society so out of touch with reality that it can
hardly be believed by myself and presumably, or at least hopefully, by
some of the other readers of alt. revisionism. 

Copper during the "Good War"

American copper resources became so critical during the war that bus bars
of the metal, on electric panel-boards, were replaced with conductors of
silver, borrowed from the Treasury's vaults at West Point. Brass, an alloy
of copper and zinc, was scarce enough to warrant serious debate over
substituting steel in shell cases. With such facts in mind, Lend-Lease
shipments of copper, brass and bronze to the Soviet Union, divulged in the
Russian lists seem terrifying. (i.e. Jordan  ran the show for the Soviets
at Great Falls, MT - yee hah, cowboy) The Soviets aggregated 642,503 tons,
valued in 1946 at $283,609,967. 

Seven-tenths of all our copper donations to Russia consisted of wire and
cable. In January 1942, Donald M. Nelson was named Chairman of the War
Production Board. According to Robert E. Sherwood, he owed the appointment
to Harry Hopkins, who recommended Nelson after talking Mr. Roosevelt out
of his notion of a three-man committee -- Nelson, Wendell Wilkie and
William O. Douglas. 

But Nelson, knowing the needs of American aircraft production, rebelled
against Russia's enormous requisitions of copper wire. Soviet agents
appealed to Hopkins, who ordered Nelson to give what they wanted. Despite
his personal obligations, the chairman was patriotic enough to refuse, and
did so a second time when the command was repeated. 

Thereupon, Hopkins arranged a meeting at the White House, where the
President went to work on the WPB chief. Mr. Roosevelt suggested that he
would take it as a personal favor if Nelson let the Russians have all the
copper they requested. What they obtained was enough telephone wire to
circle the globe 50 times. The allotment of copper wire and cable to
Soviet Union in 1942 was 32,355 tons. After three more years the total was
219,403 tons, rated at $108,115,726 (1946 value). 

Immediately after Pearl Harbor, the Navy needed to repair our damaged
battleships and placed a high priority order for copper wire suitable for
battleship use. The Navy, however, did not have a priority enough to
secure the wire they needed, because an order for Soviet copper wire had
higher priority. The American Steel and Wire Company plant at Worcester,
Mass. continued to rush through the Soviet order, which amounted to nearly
a million miles of copper wire. This was obviously intended for the
post-war rehabilitation of Soviet cities, because the wire, which was on
spools, was packed in separate soft pine boxes and placed in storage on a
20 acre lot Westchester County, New York, where it remained until the war
was nearly over before it was shipped to the Kremlin for rehabilitation of
their communications system.

Above quoted verbatim from: From Major Jordan's Diary by George Racey
Jordan 1952. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

for a list of  revisionist books published by Landpost Press, write with
S.A.S.E.:

Landpost Press, Inc.
PO Box 480
Ocean City, MD 21842
USA


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Article: 15143 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Proof the Second World War happened
Date: 21 Aug 1994 15:11:37 GMT
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To the silly challenge posted by those "young idealists" (sic), show me a
document that WW II really happened, I only need to refer to the posting
by Michael P. Stein in response to a thread that I initiated. 


> wrote:

>Why was there a railroad line from Auschwitz-Radom-Brest-Minsk in heavy
>use toward the east in 1942???

>Michael P. Stein  wrote:

 Don't tell me, let me guess - there was a war going on in that general
direction, and troops and materiel were being shipped that way?  Am I
right?  What do I win? 


So, there it is. Stein accepts this as proof of the Second World War. I
would post a time table for this line as the official document that Mr.
Stein has openly conceded to, except I only have notes on this timetable
and besides, I can't even figure out how to upload pictures and documents
into the Usenet. I know it is possible to do though, because in McOivey's
and Stein's favorite hang-out, alt.binaries.pictures.erotica, it's done
all the time. 

However, this is the end of your cute challenge to the Revisionists. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15144 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Stalin's planned attack on C. and E. Europe, Doc. #2
Date: 21 Aug 1994 15:14:44 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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The National Liberation of Germany lies in the proletarian revolution
seizing Central and Western Europe, and uniting it with Eastern Europe in
the form of the Soviet United States.  

                           -Trotsky (BO, No. 24, pg. 9)


Michael P. Stein  writes:

>    Hey!  New revisionism!  First time I've heard anyone assert that the
>*USSR* attacked *Germany*!  And I suppose France tried to invade Germany
>through the Ardennes? 
 
 
>        Of course the french attacked germany first!  _everybody_ knows
>that.  The only problem with the French advance was that poorly trained
>tank crews had their tanks stuck in reverse when the order to advance
>was given, thus making it seem as if the French were retreating.
 
>        Only because you've been blinded by Vichiite propaganda do you
>actually believe that the Germans attackjed the French...
 
>:)
>Brian Harmon  


Document 2 - Stalin's Planned Attack on West and Central Europe

In a book entitled, "The Promise Which Hitler Kept, " written in 1944 by
Stefan Stsende, and published in 1945 in Sweden, the author, a Polish Jew
who was in L'vov in 1941, had this impression of the days which preceded
June 22:

"Military trains crammed full of (Soviet) troops and military equipment
passed with increasing frequency through L'vov heading westwards.
Motorized units drove through the main streets of the town, and at the
railway station all traffic was purely military." 

Georgy Alexandrich Ozerov, an aircraft designer in the Soviet Union, was
in prison in June 1941. Ozerov later wrote a book that was distributed in
the usual Samisdat form, by - passing the usual censorship. From there it
reached the west, where it was published in Germany. Ozerov's account
captures the awesome rhythm of the Red Army 's massive movement towards
its western border, which made itself felt even in Soviet prisons: 

"People living in houses on the roads of Byelorussia and Windau are
complaining that they cannot sleep at night for the noise of trains laden
with tanks and guns rumbling past."

(Tupolevskaya Sharaga, Frankfurt - Am - Main, Posev, 1973, p. 90)

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15177 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stalin's Death Camps in Germany 1945-50
Date: 23 Aug 1994 14:03:28 GMT
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To: Schlomo Schultz
    Brian Hard-up-mon
    Ken Mc-oi-vey
    Michael P. Schwein
    and the other "young idealists" in alt.revisionism



To the general plea for me to post info about the events in the SOZ from
1945-50, I can only do these things:

1. There are so many "young American idealists" (sic) tramping around
Europe, that certainly between all of you, you know someone who has
visited, say, Sachsenhausen. It's reachable via Berlin's S-Bahn -
Endstation Oranienburg. There is a new wing of the museum there which
details the extermination of the Germans. Ask them what they learned. 

2. The Landpost Press is showing weekly it's new revisionist film, "From
Sachsenhausen to Buchenwald: Death Camps of the Soviets," nationwide and
Canada beginning on Wednesday, August 31, 1994 via satellite G3, Channel
24 at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. Don't eat your popcorn too fast because
after this comes my other new film, "Silesian Inferno." 

3. Buy a copy of Landpost's recently published book, "From Sachsenhausen
to Buchenwald: Death Camps of the Soviets 1945-50," by Adrian Preissinger.
$26.95 & $3.00 shipping. Send check or money order in U.S. funds to:

Landpost Press, Inc.
PO Box 480
Ocean City, MD 21842
USA


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15179 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 23 Aug 1994 14:33:51 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 81
Message-ID: 
References:    <03TRBNYS@gwdu03.gwdg.de>
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In article <03TRBNYS@gwdu03.gwdg.de>, uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Uwe
Roessler) wrote:

> hexham@acs.ucalgary.ca (Irving Hexham) writes:
> 
> >At the risk of provoking the wrath of most members of this net it
> >is important to note that the revisionists have a valid point
> >when they argue that current usage is no guide to historical
> >usage. Just because "aussrotten" means exterminate today does not
> >mean that was its sole meaning prior to 1945.
> 
> [ English example 'gay' deleted ]
> 
> >       Therefore, any attempt to define a word used in
> >historical documents must refer to contemporary usage which
> >should include both dictionary definitions and examples of use at
> >the time is question.
> >       I suspect the revisionists on this net are wrong about
> >the meaning of aussrotten, but so far the arguments used to
> >contradict them have been unhistorical and invalid.
> 
> Your objection is basically valid, though in the case of 'ausrotten'
> the meaning 'to exterminate' is very old. 
> The word is already used in this sense in Luther's gospel translation,
> (cf. 'Deutsches Woerterbuch' by Hermann Paul), the slightly different
> spelling and pronounciation compared to the parent word 'ausroden' 
> (to root out) indicated already then the different meaning. To my
> knowledge 'ausrotten' didn't change its meaning since Luther's time.
> 
> If anybody of the revisionists comes up again with their misleading inter-
> pretation of the word 'ausrotten, I'm willing to post the article
> 'ausrotten' of the Grimm'sches Woerterbuch and of the new Duden Woerterbuch,
> to demonstrate the historic use of the word.
> 
> But I'm afraid - taking their usual reading abilities into consideration - 
> the revisionists won't understand these articles.
> 
> u.roessler                                      uroessl1@gwdg.de
> 
> "Gegen Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uwe, the idea that you are in Germany and a German should somehow send a
jolt of fear through revisionists posting in the USA is somewhat
"ansonderlich." It gives you no more authority than anyone else posting in
alt.revisionism. 

I want to thank Irving Hexham for the support and his valid argument. Here
is what Langenscheidt's Grossworterbuch  has to say about
ausrotten:

>aus rotten v/t  1. (Unkraut etc) uproot, root s.th. out (od. up).
>2. (Volk, Rasse etc) exterminate, wipe out, kill off 3. fig. (Uebel etc.)
>eradicate, extirpate (beide a. med.) stamp-out, root out: nicht ausrotten
- >ineradicable
>Aus rottung f  1. uprooting (etc) 2. e-s Volkes etc:
extermination >(Voelkermord) genocide: von der ~ bedrohte (Tier) Art -
endangered species 3. fig., a. med. >eradication, extirpation

I am really not impressed with Uwe Roessler's argument that because he is
German, that makes him an automatic authority on the German language here
in alt. revisionism. I will put forth here that, definition 2 in both the
verb and the noun are modern, sort of politically correct terms that are
newer than definitions 1 for both the verb and noun. That is why they
appear as the second definition, not the first, I think. As far as these
other Woerterbucher are concerned, I'm only debating on Langenscheidt's,
the most widely sold (to say the least) of German dictionaries. 

By the way, here is what Langenscheidt's has to say about this new edition
to their standard reference work: "In its adherence to the time-honoured
principles embodied by the two volume Muret-Sanders German- English
Dictionary and its concern to accommodate recent developments both in
everyday language and specialized fields of knowledge, ..." 

That choking sound you here is Uwe over in Germany choking on his
Bratwurst and the "yound idealists" here in America choking on their
macoroni and cheese at the university cafeterias all across America. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15198 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Stalin's Death Camps in Germany 1945-50
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 23 Aug 1994 14:03:28 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 00:42:17 GMT
Lines: 23


From: landpost@clark.net
>To: Schlomo Schultz
>    Brian Hard-up-mon
>    Ken Mc-oi-vey
>    Michael P. Schwein
>    and the other "young idealists" in alt.revisionism


Oh goody, another shit-for-brains who thinks making fun of people's
names is the sure road to fame and fortune.

>3. Buy a copy of Landpost's recently published book, "From Sachsenhausen

	[advertisement deleted]

Well, at least we know what this guy's motivations are...

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 15199 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 23 Aug 1994 14:33:51 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:   
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Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 00:50:30 GMT
Lines: 64


From: landpost@clark.net
>Uwe, the idea that you are in Germany and a German should somehow send a
>jolt of fear through revisionists posting in the USA is somewhat
>"ansonderlich." It gives you no more authority than anyone else posting in
>alt.revisionism. 

Fer the luvva god dumbkopf the issue at hand was the meaning of a
German word.

I'd think a native speaker of the language who also is obviously quite
fluent in English might have *some* authority over a bunch of people
flipping through their Berlitz phrase books and speculating on the
sense of what some German word means or meant.

EVEN if that is inconvenient to your point of view.

Hell, it's a lot more interesting than your own penchant for making
fun of people's names and advertising your tapes or whatever it was
you've been trying to make a buck off of here.

>I am really not impressed with Uwe Roessler's argument that because he is
>German, that makes him an automatic authority on the German language here
>in alt. revisionism. I will put forth here that, definition 2 in both the
>verb and the noun are modern, sort of politically correct terms that are
>newer than definitions 1 for both the verb and noun. That is why they
>appear as the second definition, not the first, I think. As far as these
>other Woerterbucher are concerned, I'm only debating on Langenscheidt's,
>the most widely sold (to say the least) of German dictionaries. 

Are you a native speaker?

Are you fluent in German at all?

What authority at all do you have on the matter other than your owning
a copy of Langenscheidt's and willingness to offer your own
interpretation of the contents therein?

>That choking sound you here is Uwe over in Germany choking on his
>Bratwurst and the "yound idealists" here in America choking on their
>macoroni and cheese at the university cafeterias all across America. 

Oh there ya go trying to establish your scholarly credibility here
again.

I think I liked it better when you were just making fun of people's
names.

The real problem here is that the speech apparently said
*EXTERMINATE*, arguable or not.

And guess what? A ton of other evidence points to the conclusion that
they in fact *EXTERMINATED*.

So what the hell could your point be except the most frantic sort of
``well it's also possible that martians just teleported all those
people off the face of the earth, can you disprove that, huh, can
ya?''

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 15203 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Reuter: Germany to Remodel Buchenwald Museum
Date: 24 Aug 1994 01:37:23 GMT
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To:Schlovo Schultz
   Brian Hard-up-mon
   Ken McK-oi-vey
   Michael P. Schwein
   Blarney Shtein
   Uwe 6,000,000 Jewe 
   the rest of the "young idealists"


GERMANY PLANS TO REMODEL BUCHENWALD MUSEUM

Reuters (April 9, 1994)

by Renate Wicher

Buchenwald, Germany

The former Nazi concentration camp at Buchenwald will remodel its exhibits
to reflect post-war abuses by Soviet forces, officials said Saturday. 

They also announced plans to open an exhibit at the Dora underground
tunnel network, northwest of Buchenwald, where thousands of people, forced
by Nazis to work as slave labor building V2 rockets died. 

In the future, the Buchenwald museum will show not only how the Nazis
systematically killed 56,000 people at the camp just outside Weimar but
also that 10,000 died during harsh Soviet post-war internment there. 

"The exhibit needs to be liberated from the ideological burdens that have
weighed it down, " said Eberhard Jaeckel, a Stuttgart University professor
and chairman of the 11 member historian's committee overseeing the
museum's redesign. 

He told a news conference that the new exhibits should be completed by
Aprill 11, 1995, the 50th anniversary of the camp's liberation from the
Nazis.

The redesigned museum will show for the first time how Soviet troops
interned captured Nazis and other political oppenents there from 1945 to
1950, a fact hushed up during four decades of communist rule in East
Germany.

Jaeckel said the main exhibits would still focus on the Nazi extermination
of Jews, gypsies and other victims but would be remodelled from the
existing East German displays glorifying the resistance of communist
inmates at Buchenwald. 

He said the museum at Dora "should reflect the historical structures of
the Nazi state, including the military and industrial aspects as well as
the persecution and extermination."

About 20,000 concentration camp inmates died making the V2 rocket,
Hitler's "wonder weapon" which was supposed to win World War II. They
toiled in inhuman conditions in the underground caves where SS guards
tortured and killed them. 

In the late 1950's, East Germany opened a Buchenwald memorial that was a
shrine to the doctrine that an "antifascist resistance struggle" laid the
foundation for the communist state that collapsed at Germany's
reunification in 1990. 

The museum focused almost exclusively on resistance work by communist
inmates, relegating the suffering of Jews, gypsies and others to a distant
second place. 

This one-sided view of Buchenwald, also propagated in East German history
books, was shattered in 1990 when remains of Stalin-era victims were
unearthed there. 

REUTER 09-04-94


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Article: 15204 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit [sic]
Date: 24 Aug 1994 01:52:45 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33d2ir$nne@agate.berkeley.edu> <33dnu6$6e3@news.xs4all.nl> <33dn04$3m7@agate.berkeley.edu>
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In article <33dn04$3m7@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> In article <33dnu6$6e3@news.xs4all.nl>, musmint  wrote:
> 
> >As a scientist I really *like* quantifiable data as I presented here.
> 
> Okay, here's some quantifiable data for you.  Before the war, the Jewish
> population of Poland was >3 million.  After the war, the population was
> <400,000.
> 
> I asked you once before, although you didn't answer.  Where did they all
> go?  This difference in population 1939-1945 is something you have to
> explain (with better evidence for your explanation that the standard one)
> for your "revisionist" history to have any plausibility whatsoever.
> 
> >>But in all of your above meanderings, you have made one essential
> >>mistake.  I will give you credit and assume that it was indeed a mistake.
> >>That mistake was to assume that the proof of the Holocaust is solely from
> >>eyewitness testimony.  It is not.  I suggest that if you really are 
> >...
> >read my question to D.Keren (that he wisely did not answer) about
> >forgeries:
> >
> >* is it *technically* possible to forge such things and get away with it?
> >* are there people or institutions who would profit by such forgeries.
> 
> If *all* of the documents were forged -- and I note you deleted my reference
> to Pressac, who presents many of them -- then who forged them?  Where is
> the evidence for the forgeries?  Who paid for the paper, and the typewriters,
> and the typewriter ribbons?  Why did none of the typists come forward and 
> admit their part in the forgery?  How were the millions of pages of 
> forged documents get into Europe?
> 
> In your scientific (sic) training in whichever Great European University
> you got your degree in, did you ever come across Occam's Razor?
> 
>                                         Richard Schultz


According to the honest Jewish writer, John Sack, author of the ignored by
the New York Times Book Review "An Eye for an Eye -- The Untold Story of
Jewish Revenge Against the Germans in 1945 (New York: Basic Books, 1993),
there are currently over 1,000,000 Jews living in Poland, not the official
10,000 or whatever one finds in the American college textbooks. 

Sack's book (also had an article in the Village Voice) is about the
extermination of the Germans after WW II in Poland. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15205 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Quick Reply to Schlomo
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:03:07 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <33ddi8$sfk@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> 
> >I am really not impressed with Uwe Roessler's argument that because he is
> >German, that makes him an automatic authority on the German language here
> >in alt. revisionism. I will put forth here that, definition 2 in both the
> >verb and the noun are modern, sort of politically correct terms that are
> >newer than definitions 1 for both the verb and noun. That is why they
> >appear as the second definition, not the first, I think. As far as these
> >other Woerterbucher are concerned, I'm only debating on Langenscheidt's,
> >the most widely sold (to say the least) of German dictionaries. 
> 
> Uwe Roessler's argument was not that he is German, therefore he is an
> authority.  His argument was that he is German, so that makes it harder
> for you to lie about the meanings of German words.  His particular argument
> about "ausrotten" has nothing to do with his being a German per se.
> 
> Hexham's point, that you have to consider what the word "ausrotten"
> meant to Himmler, which might not be the same as what it means today,
> is not a priori invalid.  It is nonetheless wrong.  As Roessler pointed
> out, and our own Newel Post ignored, "ausrotten" is attested as 
> meaning "to extirpate" as early as the 16th century.  If you want
> to look at historical meanings, then you ought to check out historical
> dictionaries rather than a dictionary that happens to be a best seller.
> 
> I went to the library and looked up "ausrotten" in the Grimm Brothers'
> dictionary (Grimm, J., and W. Girmm, _Deutsches Woerterbuch_, Leipzig:
> S. Hirzel, 1854), which predates the use we are interested in by some
> ninety years.  They define "ausrotten" as "exstirpare, ausreuten" 
> (volume 1, column 940), and give numerous historical citations under
> both "ausrotten" (e.g. Joshua 7:9, "und unsern namen ausrotten von der erden")
> and "ausreuden" (e.g. Zeph. 1:3 -- Luther's translation -- "ja, ich wil
> die menschen ausreuten aus dem lande, spricht der herr.")  The Grimm
> brothers' dictionary also mentions (also on column 940; "ausreuden" is
> in column 935) under "ausroden" "doch verwendet man die niederdeutsche
> form nur fuer die sinnliche bedeutung, nicht fuer die abstracte des
> austilgens:  er rodete die baeume aus."
> 
> In other words, Roessler is completely right and lamppost completely
> wrong.  I doubt this comes as a surprise to anyone, although I'd be
> interested in knowing if these historical citations are sufficient for
> Hexham.
> 
>                                         Ricahrd Schultz



Schlomo,

Are you trying to say Luther had gas chambers way back when?? I'm not
"completely wrong" here, Langenscheidt's is the dictionary in Germany, not
this fairy tale book of Brother's Grimm or whatever you're using. As far
as "ausreuden and ausreuten, what exactly are you getting into here? The
word under discussion is ausrotten. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15206 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sachsenhausen
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:14:06 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article ,
btucker@crab.rutgers.edu (Bill Btucker) wrote:

> I have watched with great admiration for alt.revisionism's fab five
> (McVay, Keren, Jamie McCarthy, Harmon & Stein) while they have so capably 
> refuted every claim of our own aspirants to a Fourth Reich.
> 
> There is one very minor addition I would like to make to their efforts.
> On August 16th Landpost asserted that the real extermination took place
> in Sachsenhausen between 1945 and 1950.  When asked by Keren to present
> his evidence, Landpost responded: "...ask somebody who has been to the
> new wing of the Sachsenhausen Museum outside of Berlin.  One of those
> backpack toting trampers from the Oi Vey League has probably been
> there."
> 
> Though I fit neither of Landpost's descriptors, I did visit Sachsenhausen
> less than four months ago, and I can assure you that the new wing (and
> not the old one either, for that matter) contains no support for his
> claim.  When I was there, it contained two exhibits, one on the
> background and fate of a number of local Jews who had been incarcerated
> at Sachsenhausen, the other on the systematic attempt by the Nazis to
> round up and depart Danish Jews.
> 
> Bill Tucker
> btucker@crab.rutgers.edu



Billy Boy,


Maybe you can't read German or maybe you just didn't go to the right
place. But the first Plaket when one enters this room says: Sachsenhausen
1945-1950" in great big type letters. So, please, if you want to jump in
with the big boys, get your act together first. 

I mean, this is so lame of a post that I'm only going to gently flame you. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15207 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:25:48 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <33bcn7$3e9@hebron.connected.com>, doyal@connected.com (Chuck) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net wrote:
> : A Revisionist Replies to Michael P. Stein: ie. Who Liked Uncle Joe?
> 
> 
> : We are determined that nothing shall stop us from sharing with you all
> : that we have...
> : --Harry Hopkins, at the Russian Aid Rally, Madison Square Garden, June 1942.
> 
> 
> : >Michael P. Stein, mstein@access.digex.net writes:
> 
> lots of drivel out
> 
> : To the idea that no-one in the USA liked Uncle Joe except 2 people doesn't
> : fit with the facts. Why, then, did the American people work their fingers
> : to the bone, 
> 
> More deleted.
> 
> That is bizarre! The Americn people were working for their sons, 
> husbands, fathers, daughters. and to make money.  They couldn't care less 
> for "uncle Joe"
> 
> The American people were overwhelmingly anti-communist. Still are for 
> that matter.



I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew from Latvia)
of the South African Communist Party smirking in the backround after the
election in S.Africa. I guess that's why the ANC and the S. African
Communist Party both have plush offices in America's fortress/embassy in
Pretoria?? I guess that's why German SPD candidate Sharping gets red
carpet treatment during his visit to Washington????

This is no conspiracy of Jews or anything, this is simply Americans seeing
as an enemy any people who's heads aren't stuffed full of silly
superstitions, be they Christian or Communist or holocaust tales or
whatever. That can explain Bushy calling Saddam a new "Hitler", I think. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


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Article: 15210 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stalin's Death Camps in Germany 1945-50
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:27:44 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article ,
landpost@clark.net wrote:

> To: Schlomo Schultz
>     Brian Hard-up-mon
>     Ken Mc-oi-vey
>     Michael P. Schwein
>     and the other "young idealists" in alt.revisionism
> 
> 
> 
> To the general plea for me to post info about the events in the SOZ from
> 1945-50, I can only do these things:
> 
> 1. There are so many "young American idealists" (sic) tramping around
> Europe, that certainly between all of you, you know someone who has
> visited, say, Sachsenhausen. It's reachable via Berlin's S-Bahn -
> Endstation Oranienburg. There is a new wing of the museum there which
> details the extermination of the Germans. Ask them what they learned. 
> 
> 2. The Landpost Press is showing weekly it's new revisionist film, "From
> Sachsenhausen to Buchenwald: Death Camps of the Soviets," nationwide and
> Canada beginning on Wednesday, August 31, 1994 via satellite G3, Channel
> 24 at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. Don't eat your popcorn too fast because
> after this comes my other new film, "Silesian Inferno." 
> 
> 3. Buy a copy of Landpost's recently published book, "From Sachsenhausen
> to Buchenwald: Death Camps of the Soviets 1945-50," by Adrian Preissinger.
> $26.95 & $3.00 shipping. Send check or money order in U.S. funds to:
> 
> Landpost Press, Inc.
> PO Box 480
> Ocean City, MD 21842
> USA
> 
> 
> Tim McCarthy
> landpost@clark.net


I've backed up the start date for the movie. Look for it in mid-September.
Don't worry, I'll post.

T.M.


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Article: 15211 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: To Mr. Danny Keren: Why don't you reply...
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:31:02 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <1994Aug21.123201.18475@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>,
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) wrote:

> In article 
landpost@clark.net writes:
> 
> >Tim McCarthy
> >Landfill Press
> 
> Ah - Mr. McCarthy's in it for the money, and, like Mr. Raven, is a
> professional fascist, rather than an amateur fascist. And, one might
> assume from his initial efforts here, targeting uneducated
> simpletons as his market... well, from the quality of the denial
> literature displayed here, he's aiming at a big market.
> 
> -- 
> 
> "However, it is sophistry to proclaim that something must have happened a
> certain way because your `reason' demands it." (Greg Raven, Institute for
> Historical Review)


"Professional fascist"? Isn't that a bit dramatic??


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Article: 15213 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Reuter: Germany to Remodel Buchenwald Museum
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 24 Aug 1994 01:37:23 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 05:27:51 GMT
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From: landpost@clark.net
>The former Nazi concentration camp at Buchenwald will remodel its exhibits
>to reflect post-war abuses by Soviet forces, officials said Saturday. 

I think that's great, really.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 15214 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 24 Aug 1994 02:25:48 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
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Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 05:32:17 GMT
Lines: 16


From: landpost@clark.net
>I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
>boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew from Latvia)

Well, it didn't take long for Mr McCarthy to show his true colors.

Prick a revisionist and the racist, hate-mongering blood just flows...

Thank you Mr McCarthy.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15275 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Buchenwald/Weimar
Date: 24 Aug 1994 23:21:56 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <33gang$i2s@hermes.louisville.edu>,
jdonei01@homer.louisville.edu (Joseph D O'Neil) wrote:

> Dear Folks (Volksgenossen and otherwise):
>         The preceding article on the revision of the museum exhibit at 
> Buchenwald is interesting in that the revision seeks to establish, more 
> clearly than does the present exhibit, that groups such as Jews and Sinti and 
> Roma (i.e. "Gypsies"; in German, "Zigeuner" is considered racist) were
victims 
> of the camp.  Buchenwald's old exhibit, written by the scholars of the GDR, 
> emphasizes the camp as an instrument of political repression, placing it
> in the fascist-communist rivalry so conveniently exploited by
revisionists who 
> ignore the specifically "racial" (for the SS) character of the camp system.  
> Prof.Dr.  Jaeckel's committee does not bear glad tidings for the opponents of 
> truth, but, rather, it seeks to restore balance to an exhibit that served the 
> goals of "political education" in the GDR by ignoring to a great extent the 
> numerous non-political prisoners of Buchenwald.  That revisionists who argue
> against the occurence of this genocide should attempt to cite in their support
> scholars of such great integrity as those of Prof.Dr. Jaeckel's committee
> demonstrates clearly that such persons are not only contemptuous of the
truth, 
> but also contemptuous of legitimate historical investigation and the process 
> of revision it entails.
> J.O. 


Hey Joe, 

Say what??? I attached no commentary to the posting of the Reuter's
article whatsoever. I made no comments in parentheses as to what I thought
of some of the statements contained therein, for example, about Gypsies
being exterminated and all those tired old hoaxes. So just where do you
get off making such commentary then about the posting??? What if an
exterminationist had made this post, would you have flamed him in the same
manner??? 

The "young idealists" here in alt.revisionism denied vehemently that any
such changes were occurring, denied any knowledge of the post war use of
these camps in the SOZ, so I posted this article and another post in order
to provide at least a start for them. 

Lastly, there are many such committees in the former DDR, doing much the
same thing that is occurring at the camp at Weimar. I was at the last
meeting in May of the Ketschendorf group, whose meeting and remembrance
ceremony I filmed. I was welcomed with characteristic German graciousness
by all there, scholars, the mayor of Fuerstenwaelde, the German survivors
of Stalin's holocaust, etc. 

So, really, bub, up yours.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15276 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Date: 24 Aug 1994 23:29:24 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article , choover@usd.edu (Christopher J
Hoover ) wrote:

> bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
> 
> 
> >From: landpost@clark.net
> >>I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
> >>boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew from Latvia)
> 
> >Well, it didn't take long for Mr McCarthy to show his true colors.
> 
> >Prick a revisionist and the racist, hate-mongering blood just flows...
> 
> >Thank you Mr McCarthy.
> 
> Indeed.  And this one didn't even wait until he got all flustered in a 
> moment of heated debate to do it, either.  Brought it up himself, he did, 
> with no prompting or goading from any of us.
> 
> Hardly seems sporting, when they tip their hands so early.
> 
> This is _precisely_ what what we mean, Tim, when we say that Holocaust 
> deniers make our case against them for us, far better than we ever could 
> ourselves.  You took to the soap box, and to no one's fault but your own, 
> showed your true colors.  For that, I add my thanks to Barry's.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris
> --
> Christopher J. Hoover    choover@usd.edu       University of South Dakota
> Disclaimer:  standard    It's *always* September, *somewhere* on the Net.



Chris,


So what? 

Tim 
landpost@clark.net


Article 15279 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Train timetables and football teams
Date: 24 Aug 1994 23:54:17 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 89
Message-ID: 
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bibor (shhhh....)?" 
> 
>     And how do you happen to have a German Army map anyway?  (Just
> curious.)
> 
> 
Mikey, it's called research. A good map for Raum Minsk is:
Vgl. Deutsche Heereskarte 1:300 000, Blatt U54 Ausgabe VIII. 43.

>  Eastwards?  Well, China is also eastwards, isn't it?  So were the 
> Jews being transported there?

Well, yeah. Stalin had founded a Jewish republic in Asia and resettled
many Jews there. They can still be found there today, although they all
want to go curiously to Germany!! 

> 
> >But, okay, since you want to play this game, here's a start for you. For a
> >time table of transports of the Reichsbahn to Weiss Russland, see "Mit der
> >Reichsbahn in den Tod: Massentransporte in den Holocaust 1941 to 1945,"
>                                      shouldn't this be "bis"?  ^^
> 
> >pages 70 -74, by Heiner Lichtenstein, Ko"ln 1985. 
> >And, gee, it's not even written by a nasty revisionist.
> 
>     Oh, Tim, let me plant a big wet sloppy kiss on your lips for 
> bringing this book to my attention.  What?  You thought nobody else 
> could find the book, or read it if they found it?  Wrong.

> 
>     The real fun comes when you back up to pp. 67-69 and start 
> analyzing the routes.  Look at all the trains from Warsaw to Treblinka.  
> "So what?" you say, "They're on their way to 'Weiss Russland.'"
> 
>     But what do we make of the trains from Bialystok to Treblinka?  Since
> you're such a whiz with a map, Tim, tell me in which direction does
> Treblinka lie from Bialystok?  And in which direction does "Weiss
> Russland" lie from Bialystok, and how far?  Doesn't it seem strange to you
> that Jews from Bialystok, only about 40km west of "Weiss Russland," would
> instead be shipped about 80km southwest to get there?  Were they going on
> an around-the-world tour or something? 
> 
>     Again on p. 71 we see three more special trains (21, 22, and 23 August
> 1943) going from Bialystok to Treblinka.  What a terrible sense of
> direction those train drivers had!
> 
>     But the best example is found on page 73.  There are four trains, 29,
> 30, 30 January and 1 February 1943, from Oranczyce (it doesn't show up on
> my map, but the train was under the authority of the security police in
> Bialystok, so I would assume it's somewhere in that area).  How did the
> 9,161 people (1,820 children under 10) go to "Weiss Russland?"  By way of
> Auschwitz!  Even farther in a very wrong direction.... 
> 
>     Repeating what you said earlier:
> 
> >Not even exterminationist bozos deny that Jews were being transported
> >eastwards.
> 
>     Bialystok to Treblinka?  Bialystok to Auschwitz?  This is some new 
> definition of "eastwards" with which I was previously unfamiliar. 
> 
> 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.



Hey Mikey,

I knew your somewhat less "idealistic" activity here had a reason. You
were quietly preparing an answer that would really show em, weren't ya?? 

Why do think I posted the name of the book?? So that no-one would look for
it?? You jumped too fast Mikey boy, though. You seem so proud of your
little discovery about Jews going from Bialystok to Auschwitz, that I
almost hate to make the following post, but I will.

Auschwitz was a gigantic work camp. One needed workers. There are
documents to show that in 1943 a large number of Jews from Bialystok to
Auschwitz/Birkenau were transported to be utilized there as workers. The
documents are even in the exterminationists favorite volume:

IMT Bd. XXVII, 1472-PS, S. 251 ff.

Nice try! Better luck next time!!

Tim McCarthy
Landpost@clark.net


Article 15280 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Entire text Kube to Lohse, Kommissar for Ostland 1942
Date: 24 Aug 1994 23:59:21 GMT
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Generalkommissar for White Russia (Weiss Russland) Wilhelm Kube, 31 July
1942, to the Reichskommissar for Ostland, Lohse

Verbatim English translation from the German book, "Schvne Zeiten"
comments in quotation marks are NOT mine

Re: Combating partisans and Judenaktion in White Russia Generalbezirk

It has become apparent during the course of all clashes with partisans in
White Russia, in both the former Polish and the former Soviet parts of the
Generalbezirk, that the Jews, together with the Polish resistance movement
and the Moscow Red Army in the east, are the principal supporters of the
partisan movement. Consequently, the question of how the Jews in White
Russia should be handled is a political matter taking priority over all
considerations about risks to the economy as a whole. Accordingly, it has
to be solved not from an economic but from a political point of view.
During the course of extensive discussions with SS-Brigadefuehrer Zenner
and the very competent Leiter of the SD, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur.
Strauch, it was established that we have liquidated about 55,000 Jews in
the past ten weeks. In the Minsk area (Gebiet Minsk-Land) the Jews have
been completely eradicated, without any negative effect on the workforce.
In the mainly Polish area of Lida 16,000 Jews have been liquidated, in
Slonim 8,000 Jews. Our preparations for the liquidation of the Jews in the
Glebokie area were disrupted when the rear army area pre-empted us,
liquidating 10,000 Jews whom we had been due to eradicate systematically,
without any prior liaison with us. (A report on this incursion has already
been submitted.) On 28 and 29 July about 10,000 Jews were liquidated in
the city of Minsk, 6,500 of them Russian Jews - for the most part old
people, women and children - and the rest Jews unfit for work, who had
been mostly sent from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin in November of
last year to Minsk on the Fuehrer's orders.

In addition, the Slutsk area has been alleviated of several thousand Jews.
The same applies for Nowogrodek (Novogrudok) and Wilejka (Vileyka).
Radical measures have yet to be taken in Baranovichi and Gantsevichi.
There are still some 10,000 living in the city of Baranovichi alone, of
whom 9,000 will be liquidated next month. 

There are 2,600 Jews from Germany left in the city of Minsk. In addition
to these, there are a total of 6,000 Russian Jews and Jewesses still
alive, left over from the labor units in which they were employed during
the action. Minsk will continue to retain the largest Jewish workforce.
This is currently necessary because of the high concentration of armaments
factories and work related to the railway. In all the other areas the SD
and I have limited the number of Jews coming for Arbeitseinsatz to a
maximum of 800 and, where possible, 500. Thus, at the conclusion of the
actions we have reported, we retain in the city of Minsk, 8,600 Jews and
in the other ten areas, including the Minsk-Land Gebiet which is free of
Jews, some 7,000 Jews. This means the risk that partisans will continue to
gain vital support from the Jews has been removed. Naturally the SD and I
would prefer to eliminate the Jews in the Generalbezirk of White Russia
once and for all as soon as the Jews are no longer by the Wehrmacht for
economic reasons. For the time being, the Wehrmacht's requirements, as the
principal employer of Jewish labor, are being taken into account. 

Coming into conflict with this clear brief regarding the Jews is the
difficult task the SD in White Russia is faced with of having to ensure
that the continuous flow of Jewish transports reaches its destination.
This takes a terrible toll on the physical and mental strength of the men
of the SD as well as distracting them from their duties, which lie within
the area of White Russia itself. 

I should therefore be grateful if Herr Reichskommissar could arrange for
further Jewish transports to Minsk to be suspended, at least until the
danger from the partisans has been overcome conclusively. I recquire the
SD for 100 percent deployment against the partisans and the Polish
resistance movement, both of which demand all the strength of the not
exceptionally strong SD units. 

Tonight, after the Minsk Judenaktion was over, SS -Obersturmfuehrer Dr.
Strauch reported to me with justified anger that a transport of 1,000 had
suddenly arrived from Warsaw for the district air command here without any
instructions from the Reichsfuehrer -SS or prior notification from the
Generalkommissar. 

I would ask Herr Reichskommissar, as the most senior authority in Ostland
(my request is already prepared by teleprinter) to call a halt to such
transports. The Polish Jew is as much an enemy of the German people as the
Russian Jew. He poses a political danger far more significant than his
worth as a skilled worker. Under no circumstances in an area under civil
administration can army or air force personnel bring Jews from the
General-Gouvernment or elsewhere without authorization from you, Herr
Reichskommissar, as they jeopardize all the political work and the
security of the Generalbezirk. I am fully in agreement with the commander
of the SD in White Russia that we should liquidate every Jewish transport
which has not been ordered by our superiors, in order to prevent further
unrest in White Russia. 

Generalkommissar for White Russia
(signed) Kube.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>On 28 and 29 July about 10,000 Jews were  in the city of
Minsk, 6,500 of them Russian Jews - for the most part old people, women
and children - and the rest Jews unfit for work, who had been mostly sent
from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin in November of last year to Minsk
on the Fuehrer's orders.
>(Verb translation here in question: liquidated)

>Coming into conflict with this clear brief regarding the Jews is the
difficult task the SD in White Russia is faced with of having to ensure
that the continuous flow of Jewish transports reaches its destination. 

>I should therefore be grateful if Herr Reichskommissar could arrange for
further Jewish transports to Minsk to be suspended, at least until the
danger from the partisans has been overcome conclusively. 

>Tonight, after the Minsk Judenaktion was over, SS -Obersturmfuehrer Dr.
Strauch >reported to me with justified anger that a transport of 1,000 had
suddenly arrived from Warsaw for the district air command here without any
instructions from the Reichsfuehrer -SS or prior notification from the
Generalkommissar

>I would ask Herr Reichskommissar, as the most senior authority in Ostland
(my request is already prepared by teleprinter) to call a halt to such
transports.

 >Under no circumstances in an area under civil administration can army or
air force personnel bring Jews from the General-Gouvernment or elsewhere
without authorization from you, Herr Reichskommissar, as they jeopardize
all the political work and the security of the Generalbezirk.


Hello "Young Idealists,"

Things are not looking to good right now for the exterminationists. Even
with the obvious efforts to stretch and twist their own meaning into this
letter, the translator and editor still have to include the above quoted
interesting phrases. We learn here the Jews have come to White Russia on
orders from the Fuehrer "in a continuous flow" from Vienna, Bruenn,
Bremen, Berlin, Warsaw, the General-Gouvernment in general and
"elsewhere." 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15286 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 24 Aug 1994 23:29:24 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <33bcn7$3e9@hebron.connected
	.com>
	 
	
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 02:59:39 GMT
Lines: 27


> >From: landpost@clark.net
> >>I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
> >>boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew from Latvia)
> 
> >Well, it didn't take long for Mr McCarthy to show his true colors.
> 
> >Prick a revisionist and the racist, hate-mongering blood just flows...

	...and Chris Hoover's agreement...

in response the single line...

From: landpost@clark.net
>So what? 


So what nothing, just so long as everyone knows where you're coming
from, a hate-mongering git.

Stupidity, dear friend, is its own reward.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15288 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Train timetables and football teams
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 24 Aug 1994 23:54:17 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	<32pvpr$a85@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	
	<339fik$d2n@access1.digex.net>
	
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 03:09:28 GMT
Lines: 48


From: landpost@clark.net
>Well, yeah. Stalin had founded a Jewish republic in Asia and resettled
>many Jews there. They can still be found there today, although they all
>want to go curiously to Germany!! 

Although the first part is true (actually I think it pre-dated Stalin
tho I could be wrong, it was arguably the only independent state whose
official language was Yiddish) how in the hell do you know they all
(today?!) want to go (curiously???) to Germany? How many could even be
left there anyhow? This was 70 years ago and I don't believe it lasted
very long, wasn't it dissolved and its entire govt replaced (by
non-Jews) by Stalin around 1934.

Mike Stein writes...
>>     Bialystok to Treblinka?  Bialystok to Auschwitz?  This is some new 
>> definition of "eastwards" with which I was previously unfamiliar. 

And Mr Compost claims to devastate with...

>Auschwitz was a gigantic work camp. One needed workers. There are
>documents to show that in 1943 a large number of Jews from Bialystok to
>Auschwitz/Birkenau were transported to be utilized there as workers. The
>documents are even in the exterminationists favorite volume:

Let's get this straight: You mean that because Auschwitz/Birkenau was
a gigantic work camp that therefore it *was* east of Bialystok?

Your reasoning about geography is as demented as everything else
you've posted here.

No one (here) doubts for a moment Auschwitz/Birkenau was a forced
labor camp. What could your point possibly be? You mean that if it was
a forced labor camp it *couldn't* also be an extermination camp?

Maybe you'd better stick to geography, at least there we only have to
turn you around 180 degrees to straighten you out.

Your problem is you think everyone here finds anything you have to
say, um, new or interesting. You're actually a trite and bush-league
boor, to be frank.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15318 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A revisionist defines "anti-semite"
Date: 25 Aug 1994 15:06:22 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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Revisionists as fascists and anti-semites

The latest attempt here by the exterminationists, which is of course also
their oldest weapon, is to attepmpt to discredit revisionists by calling
them fascists, anti-semites, or whatever.

It is necessary, therefore, to give a definition of anti-semite for the
neutral lurkers and revisionists who may be intimidated by such tactics.

That definition is: An anti-semite is not necassarily someone who hates
Jews, but is someone that the Jews hate. 

Enough said.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15322 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Abridged letter Kube to Lohse im Ostland
Date: 25 Aug 1994 15:24:50 GMT
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>On 28 and 29 July about 10,000 Jews were  in the city of
Minsk, 6,500 of them Russian Jews - for the most part old people, women
and children - and the rest Jews unfit for work, who had been mostly sent
from Vienna, Bruenn, Bremen and Berlin in November of last year to Minsk
on the Fuehrer's orders.
>(Verb translation here in question: liquidated)

>Coming into conflict with this clear brief regarding the Jews is the
difficult task the SD in White Russia is faced with of having to ensure
that the continuous flow of Jewish transports reaches its destination. 

>I should therefore be grateful if Herr Reichskommissar could arrange for
further Jewish transports to Minsk to be suspended, at least until the
danger from the partisans has been overcome conclusively. 

>Tonight, after the Minsk Judenaktion was over, SS -Obersturmfuehrer Dr.
Strauch >reported to me with justified anger that a transport of 1,000 had
suddenly arrived from Warsaw for the district air command here without any
instructions from the Reichsfuehrer -SS or prior notification from the
Generalkommissar

>I would ask Herr Reichskommissar, as the most senior authority in Ostland
(my request is already prepared by teleprinter) to call a halt to such
transports.

 >Under no circumstances in an area under civil administration can army or
air force personnel bring Jews from the General-Gouvernment or elsewhere
without authorization from you, Herr Reichskommissar, as they jeopardize
all the political work and the security of the Generalbezirk.


Hello "Young Idealists,"

Things are not looking to good right now for the exterminationists. Even
with the obvious efforts to stretch and twist their own meaning into this
letter, the translator and editor still have to include the above quoted
interesting phrases. We learn here the Jews have come to White Russia on
orders from the Fuehrer "in a continuous flow" from Vienna, Bruenn,
Bremen, Berlin, Warsaw, the General-Gouvernment in general and
"elsewhere." 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what I agree to in this letter, cut-out above. The numbers the
translator tosses around are completely meaningless until one see at least
a copy of the original letter in German. I mean, how hard is it to turn an
action against partisans which killed 550 people into 55,000 people, just
by adding zeros. Give me a break already.

The author in this "source" book Michael P. Shwein, didn't even give a
reference to this article in the book, for obvious reasons. 

But, really, this attempt to get off the subject isn't going to work.
Also, these death numbers quoted here are higher than the death counts in
some of the greatest single day battles of the Second World War. Battles
with these types of numbers dead, just on one side no-less, are the stuff
of hundreds of books by former combatants, documentaries, etc. I've never
heard even a whisper about a great battle in White Russia which took the
lives of 55,000 partisans in such a short time. 

This pathetic argument presented in response by the exterminationists
shows me that you really don't have one. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15368 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A revisionist defines "anti-semite"
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 25 Aug 1994 15:06:22 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 03:53:04 GMT
Lines: 76


From: landpost@clark.net
>The latest attempt here by the exterminationists, which is of course also
>their oldest weapon, is to attepmpt to discredit revisionists by calling
>them fascists, anti-semites, or whatever.
>
>It is necessary, therefore, to give a definition of anti-semite for the
>neutral lurkers and revisionists who may be intimidated by such tactics.

	No, landpost, I have a much better idea, instead of your
	vacuous summaries for everyone why don't we just give them
	their own data and let them make up their own minds, without
	further comment...

From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 26 Jun 1994 21:39:11 -0400
>Mr Kaufman is obviously Jewish and a living example of why the Nazis 
>tried to remove Jews from Europe and short of that, into concentration 
>camps for the duration of the war.

From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 21 Mar 94 09:45:48 -0500
>The Jew rules only through fear, an atmosphere of conscious and subconscious 
>terror permeating every facet of society generated by strategic planning, a 
>socially-caustic mix of money, myth, media, and manipulative politics being 
>the empowering dynamoes of the grand plan.
 ...
>I do not offer any apologies whatsoever for my beliefs.  I offer no apologies 
>for the expression of those beliefs on this group, or on alt.skinheads.  I 
>have revealed the heartfelt thoughts of a National Socialist with bold honesty

From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:25:48 GMT
>I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
>boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo

From: bergf@iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 17 Jul 1994 01:49:55 GMT
>After reading Shein, can anyone really be surprised that the Germans 
>would people like him in concentration camps during WW2.  That is 
>precisely where people like him belonged--that is the only thing his 
>talmudic logic, his filthy sophistry, is ever able to prove.

From Knight_Crusader@nile.com Sun Apr  3 16:45:25 1994
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: Sat,  2 Apr 94 22:33:43 MST
>   After listening to the initial segment of Eye To Eye last night, I
>think we should consider digging mass graves for the Jews and queers
>in this country in preparation for the upcoming Jewish holocaust.
>   Up to this point in time only a few have warned us about the
>undesirabilness of Jews and queers in a humble society. Among these
>were Jesus and Hitler.  Hitler,of course, went to extremes to remedy
>the problem. But, today, the Jews and queers have another threatening
>exterminator; the Afro-American.

From: al998@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jason Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:01:30 GMT
>	Nowhere did I denounce the killing of "Six Million" Jews.  I did
>point out, however, that I support revisionists.  Whether six million died
>or not, I frankly don't care.  If they did, good.  If they didn't, good.
>If six million died, that's six million less to deal with in the future.
>If they didn't die, then I'm not worried, because I've lived my entire life
>with those Jews around me.  I'll transport them to the island of Madagascar,
>or something.  I don't advocate killing them, but neither do I care if they
>die.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15407 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Train timetables and football teams
Date: 26 Aug 1994 22:49:41 GMT
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In article <33ictb$pkq@prime.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
Nenonen) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> 
> >Auschwitz was a gigantic work camp. One needed workers. There are
> >documents to show that in 1943 a large number of Jews from Bialystok to
> >Auschwitz/Birkenau were transported to be utilized there as workers. The
> >documents are even in the exterminationists favorite volume:
> 
> Yes, Auschwitz was a gigantic work camp - I.G.Farben and Siemens used it's
> inmates as slave workers there. But it was also a gigantic extermination
> camp. Of the Jewish people transported there only the strongest ones were
> selected for work. All the children under 10 years to whon Mike referred
> were send straight to the ghas chambers (give or take a few that Dr. Megele
> might have selected to his inhuman "medical" experiments. So what are you
> trying to prove here?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
> Maavallintie 4
> 00430 Helsinki
> Finland
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone actually have the time to read all these threads? I came up
with 197 messages unread since my last visit!! Anyway, when I get to your
replies, I will respond. I don't understand the point of a single answer
here to my response to Michael P. Schwein. 

If exterminationists claim Auschwitz was both an industrial center and an
extermination camp (what an interesting enterprise, "Ah yes, here we are
making synthetic rubber from coal and over here we're gassing our workers
at the end of the day!!), then why is it more difficult to imagine that it
functioned as a transit camp/industrial center? 

I am not going to do anyone's research for them. I don't have the IMT
volumes here, so I gave the reference to the notes I have from them about 
Bialystok-Auschwitz. If you want to know more, you go get the docuement,
in German, and we'll take a look at it. But, again, workers were needed
there, that's what it says. I don't see what is so extraordinary about
some traffic on the railroad net going both ways. 

As far as other comments in this thread, such as above, well, I mean,
we've been through this already.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15410 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Date: 26 Aug 1994 22:57:52 GMT
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In article <33jh15$ruj@prime.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
Nenonen) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> 
> >I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
> >boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew from Latvia)
> >of the South African Communist Party smirking in the backround after the
> >election in S.Africa.
> 
> Here we go again... 
> Scrape the surface - what d'you find?
> 
> -- 
> Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
> Maavallintie 4
> 00430 Helsinki
> Finland


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, the first weapon of the exterminationists is to call their opponent
a racist, fascist or whatever. See my post about who the real haters are:
Revisionist defines anti-semite.

But, really, this little argument of yours is worthless.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15412 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Buchenwald/Weimar
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:15:57 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
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In article <33heqe$k4l@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

>  wrote:
> 
> # The "young idealists" here in alt.revisionism denied vehemently that any
> # such changes were occurring, denied any knowledge of the post war use of
> # these camps in the SOZ, so I posted this article and another post in order
> # to provide at least a start for them. 
> 
> You really don't get it, do you?
> 
> No one denied anything. People asked you to answer a simple question,
> which no "revisionist" is capable of answering: why do you accept
> tales of atrocities only when these are anti-German atrocities,
> and reject every tale of atrocities committed by Germans?
> 
> Now, do you finally understand what was asked of you?
> 
> Sheesh.
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Reply to
Danny "Deir Yassin" Keren

I don't think I've ever replied to one of your posts before. Maybe you're
referring to someone else. However, I do deny atrocity stories allegedly
committed by Germans, and then I check them out for myself. Here then is
my reason:

Weil die deutschen Soldaten ritterlich kaempften.


Article 15413 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Entire text Kube to Lohse, Kommissar for Ostland 1942
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:22:38 GMT
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In article <33hfqh$kug@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> So, "landpost", you have changed your mind, and you agree now
> that the document stating that 55,000 Jews were murdered by the Nazis
> during 10 weeks in a certain area is genuine?
> 
> No one denies, BTW, that some Jews were deported to the East. Such
> transports are mentioned here and there. For instance, the "Jager
> Report", which contains a very detailed list of Nazi mass murders
> in the Baltics, mentions a few thousand Jews from Germany and
> Austria as being murdered together with about 130,000 local Jews.
> 
> The question remains, where are the few millions of missing Jews
> who you claim were deported? And why would they be deported to 
> the Ukraine, if the Nazis had murdered most of the Jews there?
> 
> Do you understand the problem? It makes no sense that the Nazis
> killed all the Ukrainian Jews they could capture (about
> 200,000) and then began transporting other Jews there. Not to
> mention that no trace of these "deported" Jews remains.
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To Danny "Deir Yassin" Keren:

Hey Deir, how's the weather down their in Asia Minor? Are you enjoying all
that taxpayer money from the USA this weekend?? 

No, I believe this translation is forged and incorrect. The books writer
didn't even put a reference in there as to where he got it. I know which
archive it is in, I think, and I am going to get and I am going to post it
and then we'll see. 

As to the rest of this reply of yours, it's just numbers, meaningless
numbers made up by you on your day of fasting, or whatever it is you Jews
are up to.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15414 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Abridged letter Kube to Lohse im Ostland
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:29:55 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <33iev0$48q@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> 
> >I mean, how hard is it to turn an
> >action against partisans which killed 550 people into 55,000 people, just
> >by adding zeros. Give me a break already.
> 
> You have plenty of practice at that -- you already changed a reference
> to "thousands" of survivors to "hundreds of thousands" apparently by
> adding a couple of zeros.
> 
> >The author in this "source" book Michael P. Shwein, didn't even give a
> >reference to this article in the book, for obvious reasons. 
> 
> Given your new-found passion for referencing citations fully, maybe you
> can tell me on what page of "An Eye for an Eye" John Sack says that 
> there are currently 1,000,000 Jews in Poland, and what his source for
> the claim (assuming he made it) is?
> 
>                                         Richard Schultz
> 
> -- 
>                                 Richard Schultz
> 
> "It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
> truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Schlomo,


Who said it was in the book?? Go back and read the post (nah, nah). He
said this in a interview, which appeared in a book review, and I'm looking
for it, I think. But, it may be in the book, too. You'll just have to read
through the book. Maybe you'll learn something. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15415 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SHOAH
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:32:45 GMT
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In article <33ij0e$q4r@prime.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
Nenonen) wrote:

> Lanzman's (sp?) movie Shoah is just been shown in Finnish national
> network (TV-2). I think it's hard evidence for Holocaust. What do
> the revisionists think about it? Forgeries? Lies?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
> Maavallintie 4
> 00430 Helsinki
> Finland

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no business like SHOAH business.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15416 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:49:51 GMT
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In article <33hrtv$t35@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> Testimony of Doctor Charles Bendel 
> [Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
> and Company, 1949, p. 132-133]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Now it is proper hell which is starting. The sonderkommando tries to
> work as fast as possible. They drag the corpses by their wrists in
> furious haste. People who had human faces before, I cannot recognize
> again. They are like devils. A barrister from Salonica, an electrical
> engineer from Budapest - they are no longer human beings because, 


REST OF THIS GARBAGE DELETED
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Danny "Deir Yassin" Keren posts the above and much more, which I had to
delete. Hey, Deir, you forgot to post the title to your compendium. Here,
I have it:


A Collection of Bedtime Stories for Jewish Children

Yeah, I can just see you, there in your bed bought with money fleeced from
the American taxpayer, the little one's next to you, the house
romantically located on some poor Palestinian's stolen land, and you
begin:

Once upon a time there was a mean German by the name of Mengele and big
extermination camp called Auschwitz,........... 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15418 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:55:44 GMT
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In article , bzs@world.std.com (Barry
Shein) wrote:

> 
> However, Hitler's and his Nazi party's raving about the inferior
> Slavic races whose only purpose should be to serve his Master Race
> might give one pause on this point.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Blarney Shtein,


You are wrong, real wrong. This is tired, worn-out propaganda. Name one
article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
English translations aren't gonna do it) that contains the garbage you
posted above.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15419 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Technique and Operation of the Exterminationists in Debate #2
Date: 27 Aug 1994 00:05:21 GMT
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Technique and Operation of the Exterminationists in Debate Step #2

Revisionists have already dealt with STEP 1 in an earlier post.

STEP 1: Call revisionist opponents fascists or anti-semites or something
similiar.  

Therefore a  definition was provided by revisionists: An anti-semite is
not necessarily someone who hates the Jews, but is someone that the Jews
hate. 

STEP 2: No matter what the revisionist argument is, say that this argument
is invalid because 6,000,000 Jews are either: a: missing  b: exterminated 
c: a and b. 

Thus, when a revisionist shows, with an exterminationist's own document
even, that Jews were being transported to White Russia under the Fuehrer's
orders in a continous flow from virtually every Grossstadt in the German
realm, the exterminationist replies that, yes, this is true and we already
knew that, but millions of Jews are (take your pick) a: missing b:
exterminated c: a and b, not merely the numbers in tens or hundreds of
thousands of Jews in the revisionist argument.

Therefore, the revisionists provide this answer: 6,000,000 is not now, has
never been and will never be a number which is an accepted starting point
for the numbers of Jews under consideration. 6,000,000  is the starting
point only for the "young idealists" here in alt.revisionism and
exterminationist "scholars" in the world. 

But, the question is, why the number "6,000,000"?

6,000,000

That has become a magic number, charged with some inexplicable
significance to the strange minds of exterminationists. In October 1919, a
Jew disguised under the name Martin H. Glynn, who had enjoyed a term as
Governor of the State of New York, gave in Albany a spiel that was
reported in the Albany Times-Union and reprinted in The American Hebrew,
31 October 1919, pp. 582-601:

"Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessities of life;
eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them
through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws of God
or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish
blood. "

Now, one must wonder where on Earth in 1919, 6,000,000 of God's Darlings
were starving to death. Certainly not in their Russian colony, where their
race got its choice of all the food available. Certainly not in Germany,
where indeed the great British and French humanitarians had mounted a
blockade that would make many Germans die of starvation - but, of course,
that didn't matter, because Germans do not belong to Yahweh's Holy Race.
In Germany, the Jews were in control of the defeated and demoralized
nation, were receiving regular remittances from their fellow tribesman in
the United States, and were preparing the great inflation of the currency,
which soon reached the point at which a Jew with fifty American dollars
from his cogeners in the United States could buy an apartment building in
Berlin. In addition, the Jews in Germany and their sponsoring tribesman in
Europe and the United States were counting on a Judeo-Bolshevik take-over
that would make Germany a Hell like Russia. So where, then were they
starving?

The orator, after much more rant, says in the Ukraine!! and then yelled
about this:

"Since the armistice has been signed thousands of Jews in Ukrainia have
been offered up as living sacrifices to diabolical greed and fanatical
passion- their throats cut, their bodies rended (sic) limb from limb by
assassin bands and rabid soldiery. In the city of Proskunoff (he means
Proskurov, a city in the Ukraine on the Bug River, southeast of Lemberg
(later L'vov) and northwest of Odessa) one day a few weeks ago the dawn
saw the door of every house wherein lived a Jew marked as a shambles for
slaughter. For four days, from sunrise to sunset, fanatics plied the
dagger like demons from hell, stopping only to eat with hands adrip with
the blood of Jewish victims. From a purpose to a fury, from a fury to a
habit ran this killing of Jews, until within four days the streets of
Proskunoff ran red with blood like gutters of a slaughterhouse, until its
homes became a morgue for thousands of slaughtered human beings whose
gaping wounds cried out for vengeance and whose eyes turned to stone at
the horrors they had seen.... As it has been at Proskunoff, so it has been
in a hundred other places. The bloody tale hath repetition ad nauseam. "

Glynn went on to ask the Americans for $35,000,000 "in the name of the
humanity of Moses to six million famished men and women." Those who read
my posts about America's $110,000,000,000  to the Soviet Union in
1942-1945, know that the Jews didn't bother asking for the money much
longer. They just took it. Also, $35,000,000 in 1919 would be about at
least 1 billion dollars today. This is no small demand. And of course, we
have America's annual tribute to "Israel" of $3,000,000,000 in hard cash
today.

But, Glynn's speech was not by any means the first appearance of the
mystic six million and 'holocausts'. In 1908-1910, Jews in America were
wailing about pogroms in Russia and putting pressure on President Taft to
denounce and revoke our commerial treaty with the Russians. I am sure the
magic numbers will be found in periodicals from this time. It is not known
when 6,000,000 first acquired its mystic significance. But why 'six'? That
is a riddle for you. 


(above summarized from an article by Dr. Revilo P. Oliver, now passed
away, entitled "6,000,000" which appeard in the Liberty Bell, March 1994)

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15490 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 26 Aug 1994 22:57:52 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
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	<33jh15$ruj@prime.mdata.fi>
	
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 1994 04:54:05 GMT
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landpost@clark.net writes, and kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi responds:

> >I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
> >boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew from Latvia)
> >of the South African Communist Party smirking in the backround after the
> >election in S.Africa.
> 
> Here we go again... 
> Scrape the surface - what d'you find?

So in his defense landpost@clark.net posts:

>Again, the first weapon of the exterminationists is to call their opponent
>a racist, fascist or whatever. See my post about who the real haters are:
>Revisionist defines anti-semite.

Wow, that's amazing, you refer to Mandela as "niggie boy" and you
can't figure out why they called you a racist...yow.

>But, really, this little argument of yours is worthless.

No, Mr McCarthy.

You are worthless.

And your opinions on the matter are worthless and wrong. Period.

That you are a cheesy little hate-mongerer is clear for everyone to
see, you may as well tatoo this fact on your forehead.

If you only care about your own assessment of your attitudes then I'd
suggest you just shut up and stop trying to convince others of absurd
things like that someone who posts phrases like "niggie boy" is not
fairly called a racist. It's laughable, at best.

But if you are the only judge then retreat into your own world, our
world would be better off for it.

You are one sick fuck, that's for sure.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15516 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Technique and Operation of the Exterminationists in Debate #2
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 27 Aug 1994 00:05:21 GMT
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From: landpost@clark.net
>STEP 1: Call revisionist opponents fascists or anti-semites or something
>similiar.  

Apparently Tim McCarthy simply refuses to deal with the actual data,
but here it is again, a sampling:

From: bergf@mary.iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 26 Jun 1994 21:39:11 -0400
>Mr Kaufman is obviously Jewish and a living example of why the Nazis 
>tried to remove Jews from Europe and short of that, into concentration 
>camps for the duration of the war.

From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 21 Mar 94 09:45:48 -0500
>The Jew rules only through fear, an atmosphere of conscious and subconscious 
>terror permeating every facet of society generated by strategic planning, a 
>socially-caustic mix of money, myth, media, and manipulative politics being 
>the empowering dynamoes of the grand plan.
 ...
>I do not offer any apologies whatsoever for my beliefs.  I offer no apologies 
>for the expression of those beliefs on this group, or on alt.skinheads.  I 
>have revealed the heartfelt thoughts of a National Socialist with bold honesty

From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 24 Aug 1994 02:25:48 GMT
>I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with niggie
>boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo

From: bergf@iia.org (Friedrich Berg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: 17 Jul 1994 01:49:55 GMT
>After reading Shein, can anyone really be surprised that the Germans 
>would people like him in concentration camps during WW2.  That is 
>precisely where people like him belonged--that is the only thing his 
>talmudic logic, his filthy sophistry, is ever able to prove.

>From Knight_Crusader@nile.com Sun Apr  3 16:45:25 1994
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: Sat,  2 Apr 94 22:33:43 MST
>   After listening to the initial segment of Eye To Eye last night, I
>think we should consider digging mass graves for the Jews and queers
>in this country in preparation for the upcoming Jewish holocaust.
>   Up to this point in time only a few have warned us about the
>undesirabilness of Jews and queers in a humble society. Among these
>were Jesus and Hitler.  Hitler,of course, went to extremes to remedy
>the problem. But, today, the Jews and queers have another threatening
>exterminator; the Afro-American.

From: al998@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Jason Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:01:30 GMT
>	Nowhere did I denounce the killing of "Six Million" Jews.  I did
>point out, however, that I support revisionists.  Whether six million died
>or not, I frankly don't care.  If they did, good.  If they didn't, good.
>If six million died, that's six million less to deal with in the future.
>If they didn't die, then I'm not worried, because I've lived my entire life
>with those Jews around me.  I'll transport them to the island of Madagascar,
>or something.  I don't advocate killing them, but neither do I care if they
>die.


(Tim McCarthy again...)

>STEP 2: No matter what the revisionist argument is, say that this argument
>is invalid because 6,000,000 Jews are either: a: missing  b: exterminated 
>c: a and b. 

If revisionists claim that 6M Jews (and about an equal number of
Gypsies, etc) were *not* killed it seems that a fair question is: Then
where are they?

Thus far about the most direct answer I've ever seen a revisionist
give is the speculation that they all or mostly disappeared into the
Soviet Union in 1945.

This prompts the next obvious question: Then why haven't some of these
millions phoned home in 50 years, there's no doubt that their families
and loved ones are worried sick?

This generally prompts a reply by revisionists regarding how
oppressive the Soviet Union is or was, etc.

Which prompts the response: Well, *that* Soviet Union has been gone
for about 5 years now. So where are these people? Surely out of
several millions there must be quite a few alive today. Surely in even
just five years they would think to look up their relatives? We should
be witnessing hundreds of thousands of happy, tearful reunions!

Which prompts the revisionst response:

Well, no real response, the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989 has
been a real disaster to this revisionist "theory" that several million
Jews et al have disappeared into the USSR and been forced
incommunicado.

History can be cruel.

>That has become a magic number, charged with some inexplicable
>significance to the strange minds of exterminationists. In October 1919, a
>Jew disguised under the name Martin H. Glynn, who had enjoyed a term as
>Governor of the State of New York, gave in Albany a spiel that was
>reported in the Albany Times-Union and reprinted in The American Hebrew,
>31 October 1919, pp. 582-601:
>
>"Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessities of life;
>eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them
>through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws of God
>or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish
>blood. "

We've been over this particular article before, Tim McCarthy...

There were about 6M Jews in the area referenced, that most ravaged by
World War One. This might explain the use of the number 6M.

Post-WWI desparation, for many people in those areas, is certainly not
a matter of dispute, is it? Herbert Hoover's career that launched him
ultimately into the US Presidency in 1928 was founded on his work in
post-WW1 relief and aide.

That there were about 6M in that area (Greater Prussia, Poland etc) in
1919, plus some population growth over the following 20 years to 1939
would seem to CONFIRM the likelihood that the 6M killed figure has
some basis in accuracy. What you offer is actually supporting
evidence.

Obviously you don't see it that way, but then again, to be blunt,
you're a whack-o.

>Now, one must wonder where on Earth in 1919, 6,000,000 of God's Darlings
>were starving to death. Certainly not in their Russian colony, where their
>race got its choice of all the food available.

Huh?

What in the flying f**k are you talking about?

Lenin's Russia in 1919 was starving to death, as described.

>Certainly not in Germany,
>where indeed the great British and French humanitarians had mounted a
>blockade that would make many Germans die of starvation - but, of course,
>that didn't matter, because Germans do not belong to Yahweh's Holy Race.

In other words Jews in Germany, of which there were several hundred
thousand at that time, ate while other Germans starved?

A most interesting thesis.

I assume you can back up this claim?

>In Germany, the Jews were in control of the defeated and demoralized
>nation

Aha! The great JEWS CONTROL THE WORLD! theory.

Always a comfortable fallback you brain-diseased yahoo.

When facts won't back up your beliefs just invoke the "JOOOOS CONTROL
THE WORLD" theory. Works for anything. Why no evidence? The JOOOS ate
it. Why is there evidence? The JOOOOS forged it all. Why is their
suffering in this world? Go ask they JOOOOS, they're in charge. etc.

>were receiving regular remittances from their fellow tribesman in
>the United States,

No doubt some were, which is what that Glynn quote is all about.

And no doubt so were many Germans from German-American sources not to
mention US Govt sources (remember Mr Hoover's work), etc.

>and were preparing the great inflation of the currency,

JOOOS JOOOS THEY CONTROL EVERYTHING!

If that's true why don't you just give up now? They've obviously got
you beat, they're OMNIPOTENT!

>which soon reached the point at which a Jew with fifty American dollars
>from his cogeners in the United States could buy an apartment building in
>Berlin.

Um, that's not how inflation works, obviously you're an idiot.

Besides, the largest single immigrant group to the US were Germans,
they didn't send any money home to help friends and relatives?

What a nasty indictment!

>In addition, the Jews in Germany and their sponsoring tribesman in
>Europe and the United States were counting on a Judeo-Bolshevik take-over
>that would make Germany a Hell like Russia.

Yeah THE JOOOS THE JOOOS THEY CONTROL THE WORLD MOOO-HAH-HAH! I'd give
up right now if I were you!

>...So where, then were they
>starving?
>
>The orator, after much more rant, says in the Ukraine!! and then yelled
>about this:
>
>"Since the armistice has been signed thousands of Jews in Ukrainia have
>been offered up as living sacrifices to diabolical greed and fanatical
>passion- their throats cut, their bodies rended (sic) limb from limb by
>assassin bands and rabid soldiery. In the city of Proskunoff (he means
>Proskurov, a city in the Ukraine on the Bug River, southeast of Lemberg
>(later L'vov) and northwest of Odessa) one day a few weeks ago the dawn
>saw the door of every house wherein lived a Jew marked as a shambles for
>slaughter..."

Well, Tim McCarthy, you have a "little" problem with this:

A. You start with 6M, claim the speaker said they were all or mostly
in the Ukraine, and produce a quote that clearly shifts to
"thousands". Now, maybe it's just me, but thousands is not a typical
way to refer to several millions. Perhaps you have some other
explanation.

B. If the Jews were completely in control and prospering in the
Bolshevik revolution then why would the above be going on? The Ukraine
was part of the USSR, right?

You quote things that contradict your thesis.

Very strange.

>Glynn went on to ask the Americans for $35,000,000 "in the name of the
>humanity of Moses to six million famished men and women." Those who read
>my posts about America's $110,000,000,000  to the Soviet Union in
>1942-1945, know that the Jews didn't bother asking for the money much
>longer.

"much longer" seems to mean 1919-1942 or 23 years.

Very curious.

And now the United States, through World War II, is under the complete
control of the Jews in your thesis.

Um, do you wear like a spaghetti colander lined with tinfoil on your
head to ward off evil mind rays? Just wondering, you sound like
someone I once met who does that.

>But, Glynn's speech was not by any means the first appearance of the
>mystic six million and 'holocausts'. In 1908-1910, Jews in America were
>wailing about pogroms in Russia and putting pressure on President Taft to
>denounce and revoke our commerial treaty with the Russians. I am sure the
>magic numbers will be found in periodicals from this time.

But, conveniently, can't produce one.

Then again, I'm sure you could find reference to 250 million Americans
over and over in periodicals in the past decade or two.

Odd how facts can be repeated.

What in the world is your point? Other than you have discovered there
were somewhat over 6M jews in Central and Eastern Europe and
thereabouts?

What a fascinating insight!

>But why 'six'? That
>is a riddle for you. 

Umm...lemme guess...because that was a roughly accurate number?

Lessee, people document that around 6M jews lived in those areas of
Eastern and Central Europe and thereabouts in 1919.

That population, as is natural for the period, grows over the ensuing
20 years. Say to around 7M.

Then most are killed. Noticing there are about 1M left the conclusion
is drawn that about 6M were killed.

How mysterious, how very mysterious!!!

What a clown.

Now, if he'd found earlier authoritative claims that there were say
only 3M Jews in the region that might actually be something. It might
put in doubt the idea that 6M could have been available to be killed
even 20 years later.

But no, Tim McCarthy provides a vital piece of the evidence whether
that was his intention or not: He establishes that indeed there were
somewhat over 6M Jews in the region, so noting that most were killed
would easily lead one to the conclusion that probably around 6M were
killed!

Thank you again, Mr Tim McCarthy!



-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15628 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Date: 30 Aug 1994 22:51:28 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <33v1in$n2i@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, quirke_a@ix.wcc.govt.nz wrote:

> landpost@clark.net writes:
> 
> >Again, the first weapon of the exterminationists is to call their opponent
> >a racist, fascist or whatever. See my post about who the real haters are:
> >Revisionist defines anti-semite.
> 
>    Your words were:
> 
>    "I guess that's why I saw pictures of HillBilly holding hands with
> niggie boy Mandela with Jew Boy Joe Slovo (another exterminated Jew 
> from Latvia) of the South African Communist Party smirking in the 
> backround after the election in S.Africa."
> 
>    Are you trying to tell us that there was no racist or anti-Semitic
> sentiment expressed in them ?
> 
>    "By their own words, they will be exposed".
> 
> - Tony Q. 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blarney Shtein:

I've always wondered why Jews haven't developed a disgusting dialect, in
the same relation as Yiddish is to German, with the English language.
However, as I read your last post, I realize that there are enough filthy
words in English to satisfy even the greasiest slimeballs, such as you.
So, it isn't necessary. 

Tony No I.Q:

I wanted to show that Mandela is the ignorant tool of a destructive,
leftist movement which he cannot even begin to comprehend. They need a
figurehead, therefore, he is their niggie boy. 

Joe Slovo is a communist Jew from Latvia. There are not supposed to be any
there according to the young idealists, as they all were supposedly gassed
by you know who. By the way, what color is the smoke from the cremation
ovens when a Latvian Jew is being cremated? It is claimed by
"eyewitnesses" of the Holyhoax that there  were different colors depending
on the where the Jew was from. Therefore, calling him Jew Boy is a quick
way to identify him when trying to deal with about one hundred threads
here in alt.revisionism. 

But, please, don't try the old tricks about racist statements or
anti-semitic sentiments. If you want racism, there is enough of it from
the American left (you most likely)  and world jewry (Blarney Shtein, Deir
Yassin Kassin, etc.) to make your making this post seem even more
ridiculous than it is. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15629 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 30 Aug 1994 23:18:35 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
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In article <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>, mattk@netnews.usl.com
(Kaufman M.E.) wrote:

> Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> : After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
> 
> Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
> status was still under debate.
> And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
> these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
> in the posting.
> : existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
> : concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
> : up on us revisionists?
> :         Ross Vicksell
> 
> Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
> of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.
> 
> Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When will the O.S.I., which appears to be the most dearly beloved U.S.
institution of the holyhoaxers here in alt.revisionism (it's funny, all
that leftist drivel about evil big government and too much inteference in
our lives, etc. goes right out the window when it comes to funding the
slimeballs in the O.S.I., who hunt down poor, almost broke east Europeans
who mistakenly thought that America was a free country: too much listening
to Voice of America probably) get around to investigating all of the
Jewish war criminals in the USA. 
Honest Jew John Sack tells us about one. 

Lola Potok was Kommandant of OSS women's concentration camp at Gleiwitz
(Silesia). Lola was a nice Jewish girl who ran this camp for Germans in
1945. Sack traced her down in her west Hollywood condo, where her various
enterprises are grossing a cool $10 million a year. When Lola realized
Sack was going to publish her story, just imparted to Sack in interviews,
Lola begged, cajoled and then threatened Sack not to do it. "I don't want
that book, and if you start writing it, I'll stop you," said the nice
Jewish concentration camp Kommandant. 

So, holyhoaxers here in alt.revisionism, do you want to call in the tip to
the O.S.I., or are Jewish war criminals somehow different?


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15631 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Abridged letter Kube to Lohse im Ostland
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:05:57 GMT
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In article <33p473$ptm@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >In article <33iev0$48q@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
> >(Richard Schultz) wrote:
>  
> >> Given your new-found passion for referencing citations fully, maybe you
> >> can tell me on what page of "An Eye for an Eye" John Sack says that 
> >> there are currently 1,000,000 Jews in Poland, and what his source for
> >> the claim (assuming he made it) is?
> 
> >Who said it was in the book?? Go back and read the post (nah, nah). He
> >said this in a interview, which appeared in a book review, and I'm looking
> >for it, I think. But, it may be in the book, too. You'll just have to read
> >through the book. Maybe you'll learn something. 
> 
> On rereading your original post, I see that I misunderstood it.  You were
> simply identifying John Sack as the author of "An Eye for an Eye".  So
> I will modify my question.  Given your new-fdound passion for having
> *other* people document their claims, please provide a source for
> (a) where John Sack made his claim and (b) what source he used to derive the
> figure.
> 
> By the way, you never answered my other question:  is your continual 
> reference to me as "Schlomo" an allusion to my superior wisdom?
> -- 
>                                 Richard Schultz
>---------------------------------------------------


I told you once, Schlomo, I don't remember if it was in the book, in an
interview about the book, or both? Read the book, it will teach you
something and then tell me if it is there or not? If not, then I'll try to
find the review. Sound's fair to me.

It doesn't surprise me to learn that Schlomo could mean what you say it
means when translated, as we are all familiar with the Jew's own racial
supremacy beliefs, which of course is the main theme of Zionism.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15632 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How many revisionists are anti-Semitic?
Date: 30 Aug 1994 23:39:36 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> Welcome back, Mr. Smith!
> 
> bradleyrs@aol.com (BradleyRS) wrote:
> 
> > dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
> > 
GARBABE DELETED:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Again, we're back to the old leftist ploy, which is to maintain that only
rightists can be racist. There is an awful lot of racism in the USA and
the west, but very little, if any, is coming from the right. 

The Left:

racist anti-white hiring policies misnamed "Equal Opportunity"
racist anto-white promotion policies
racist anti-white college admission standards
racist anti-white standards of crime sentencing, just a single example:
white skinhead gets six years for spray painting a synogogue in Texas and
black rapists, such as Philadelphia Eagle Kevin Allen (I think that's
right) get only 2 years for raping a white woman
about 1,000 more examples which I don't have time to list


The Jews:

racist anti-white movies, books, music, from Hollywood, New York etc.
racist anti-white campaign to smear holyhoax propaganda slime in the faces
of adolescent schoolchildren all across America (even if the Holyhoax was
true, you don't tell schoolchildren about it until they are mature enough
to handle it) 
to name just a handful of the Jewish racist shenanigans in the U.S.A.

The Blacks:

A crime war against whites that boggles the mind
If I remember correctly, there were no (0) black women raped by white men
in 1992, but there were over 30,000 white women raped by black men.
racist anti-white "ideologies", such as Calypso Louie Farrakan's
This doesn't mention the hell of America's prisons, where part of a white
man's  sentence is to be gang raped by blacks while wardens who should
stop the carnage, do nothing.
this just scratches the surface


You want racism, little Holyhoaxer twits, you got it.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15635 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:14:12 GMT
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In article , Deaddog
 wrote:

> I return, briefly, to alt.revisionism and am encouraged to find that
> the 'Identity Christian' infestation seems to be long gone.  However,
> there seem to be a plethora of rabid new revisionists.  Could it be
> that what we fear is true:  that as those who can supply eye-witness
> testimony slowly die out, as the general gullibility of the public
> continues to increase, and as the Holocaust becomes less of a visceral
> reality and more a story wrapped in time's mists, that there
> might come a day when revisionism gains a toe-hold not in the
> popular imagination, but in the fringe of the popular imagination?
> Will we someday see extreme right-wing candidates for political
> office using Holocaust revisionism as a political tool, just as they do
> abortion and evolution?
> 
> I certainly hope not.  But it disturbs me to see the glitter of madness
> and 'true belief' in some of the revisionism posts, as though they 
> hear a cry that I cannot, and anticipate a time when their evil work
> will come to fruition.
> 
> This must not come to pass.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dead Brain:

Who has the political campaign now? Answer:Holyhoaxers. I mean, who is
building Holyhoax musuems all over the place, who has the campaign within
the school system, etc. Wasn't that HilBilly placing a Jew yamaha on his
head at every whistle stop in Europe that he must carry one in his back
pocket?

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15636 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Simon Says
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:21:26 GMT
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In article <33r3pc$o8j@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> Wm Michael  writes:
> 
> # In _Books and Bookmen_, April, 1975 issue Wiesenthal claims the "gassings"
> # of the Jews took place in Poland, and that "there were no extermination
> # camps on German soil"
> 
> So what? What's your point?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Deir Yassin Danny

What's the point?? It means that you holohoaxers have been lying for over
50 years, #1. #2, this means that the holohoax museums at the
concentration camps on German soil that claim gas chambers are also lying,
if any of them still do. 
That's what.
  

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15638 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Technique and Ope 1/2
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:33:12 GMT
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I can't believe Blarney Shtein thinks I believe the crap about Jews being
persecuted in the article from 1919 being genuine. Again, Blarney, why
six?

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15639 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:38:51 GMT
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net (Tim McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> > Name one
> > article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
> > subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
> > English translations aren't gonna do it)
> 
> Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> 
> This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> two syllables...?)
> ------------------------

Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 

das Plakat 

You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate

And, yes, I want the German, which of course, the holohoaxers won't
provide, and if they do, just a small schnitt, that just happens to say
what they like. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

p.s. I'm too tired now to flame you properly. But, wait till next time,
you dweeb.


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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:40:11 GMT
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net (Tim McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> > Name one
> > article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
> > subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
> > English translations aren't gonna do it)
> 
> Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> 
> This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> two syllables...?)
> ------------------------

Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 

das Plakat 

You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate

And, yes, I want the German, which of course, the holohoaxers won't
provide, and if they do, just a small schnitt, that just happens to say
what they like. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

p.s. I'm too tired now to flame you properly. But, wait till next time,
you dweeb.


Article 15641 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CBC Witness Program: Buchenwald
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:40:21 GMT
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In article , ai433@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(John Baglow) wrote:

> Date: 30 August
> 
> The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) will be airing "The Lucky
> Ones: Allied Airmen and Buchenwald" this evening at 8:00pm.
> 
> As one of my relatives was in Buchenwald (he was an airman) this program
> has some signficance for me. It promises to reveal much about what
> happened to the Jewish prisoners there. According to the Globe and Mail,
> they witnessed "beatings, hangings, shrunken heads, tattooed patches of
> human skin and unspeakable suffering."
> 
> More stories, I guess, for the professional nazis on this group to try to
> explain away...
> 
> 
> --
> John Baglow                             
------------------------------

to John Blowhard,

Are you joking with this? Please contact your local A.D.L. spy center and
ask them just what is the latest line of the holohoaxers. Then, you'll
save the holohoaxers alot of embarrassment.



Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15642 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Zionism" and the USSR (was: Re: Technique and Ope 1/2)
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:46:42 GMT
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In article <33vla3$d65@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> Not only was the Jewish religion suppressed in communist USSR, let
> us not forget that for many years the USSR armed Israel's worst
> enemies to the teeth and even actively participated in various wars
> agains Israel.
> 
> Yet antisemitic crackpots claim that "the Zionists and Jews 
> controlled the USSR". What a joke.
> 
> 
-------------------

Danny Deir Yassin,

More crackpot, of the top of the head nonsense. If the Russians or even
just one of the assorted Voelker of the former USSR  fought just one war
against "Israel", the misnamed place would long ceased to have existed. I
think just one decent Russian army would send the Living Gods running into
the sea. But, no doubt God's Darlings would make it part just in time for
them all to cross to safe territory, of course. 

Your Jewish racism, your sense of Jewish supremacy, was never so evident
as in this post. Like I say, prick a holohoaxer and you get a Jewish
supremacist.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15644 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, what's wrong with our alternative plan?
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:50:48 GMT
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> Pick the topic. 


-------------------

That little thing about Jews being sent to White Russia in a continous
stream under the Fuehrer's orders from virtually every Grossstadt in the
German realm would be a good start.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15646 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 31 Aug 1994 00:57:17 GMT
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> Mr. Hexam, I may have been too short-tempered in my first post and I
> apologize for that.  Perhaps you have not followed the ausrotten thread
> since Herr Berg started it; I may have assumed too much.  With respect,
> you are confusing historical research with etymology.  The word ausrotten,
> since it entered the German language over 500 years ago, has always meant
> to exterminate, to destroy, etc.  To be precise, when applied to living
> things (Lebenswesen), it always means to end that life.  Thus, people
> equals "exterminate".  Plant life (Unkraut, which Mr McCarthy failed to
> realize means "weeds") equals "uproot" or "destroy".  The only time it
> does not mean to kill *literally* is when, in the figurative sense, one
> refers to "purging" a thought from your mind, and even there, it has a
> connotation of getting rid of it.
> -----------------------

Gordy,


Yeah, I do and did realize it. What's your point?

T.M.
landpost@clark.net


Article 15647 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:04:12 GMT
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In article , uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Uwe
Roessler) wrote:

> hexham@acs.ucalgary.ca (Irving Hexham) writes:
> 
> >Gordon McFee is anxious to refute revisionists, but fails to
> >realize that he plays into their hands by refusing, even mocking,
> >calls for serious historical research.
> 
> The answers given here to "calls for serious historical research"
> depend on the nature of the calls. So far I haven't seen
> any revisionist, who'd really engage in serious historical
> research. Moreover, none of them seems to be able to apply a 
> reliable logic in their utterances. 
> All calls for serious work with sources or even with dictionaries
> are discarded by the revisionists:
> 
> In article ,
>   wrote:
> 
> #Uwe, the idea that you are in Germany and a German should somehow send a
> #jolt of fear through revisionists posting in the USA is somewhat
> #"ansonderlich." It gives you no more authority than anyone else posting in
> #alt.revisionism. 
> 
> Mr landpost surely meant to say "ausserordentlich". 
> 


--------
No, Uwe 6,000,000 Jewe, I meant wierd, there is nothing extraordinary
about you. 


> #I want to thank Irving Hexham for the support and his valid argument. Here
> #is what Langenscheidt's Grossworterbuch  has to say about
> #ausrotten:
> #
> #>aus rotten v/t  1. (Unkraut etc) uproot, root s.th. out
> #>(od. up).
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                                     weeds
>  with respect to plants possessing roots - normally they don't
> survive the uprooting.
> 
> #>2. (Volk, Rasse etc) exterminate, wipe out, kill off 
> 
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   with respect to people or races - just what Himmler said.
> 
> #                                                       3. fig. (Uebel etc.)
> 
> From here on the quotation isn't very reliable:
>      
> #>eradicate, extirpate (beide a. med.) stamp-out, root out: nicht ausrotten
> #- >ineradicable
> #>Aus rottung f  1. uprooting (etc) 2. e-s Volkes etc:
> #extermination >(Voelkermord) genocide: von der ~ bedrohte (Tier) Art -
> #endangered species 3. fig., a. med. >eradication, extirpation
> 
> So, Mr landpost's quote explicitly confirms that 'ausrotten' means 
> 'to exterminate', if speaking of a group of human beings.
------------------------------
I think this is  a politically correct, modern interpertation.

> 
> #
> #I am really not impressed with Uwe Roessler's argument that because he is
> #German, that makes him an automatic authority on the German language here
> #in alt. revisionism.  I will put forth here that, definition 2 in both the
> #verb and the noun are modern, sort of politically correct terms that are
> #newer than definitions 1 for both the verb and noun. That is why they
> #appear as the second definition, not the first, I think.
> 
> It may well be, that definition 2 is newer than definition 1, but the
> dictionary doesn't say anything about this. So Mr landpost has no point 
> at all.
> 
> BTW, I advise Mr landpost not to think - he looks rather foolish 
> if he tries to.

----------------------------------------
Doch, yes it does. The older, more commonly used definition always comes
first. What else would make sense?

> 
> #By the way, here is what Langenscheidt's has to say about this new edition
> #to their standard reference work: "In its adherence to the time-honoured
> #principles embodied by the two volume Muret-Sanders German- English
> #Dictionary and its concern to accommodate recent developments both in
> #everyday language and specialized fields of knowledge, ..." 
> 
> Indeed, so we look up a predecessor of the 'Grosswoerterbuch':
> 
> "Muret-Sanders . Enzyklopaedisches englisch-deutsches und 
> "deutsch-englisches Woerterbuch . Hand- und Schulausgabe. 
> ".(=Abridged Edition (for School and Home))
> "Leipzig, 1931
> 
> "ausrotten [mhd.] v/a. 
> "   Unkraut, _fig._ ein Laster etc. : to root out, extirpate, eradicate;
> "   ein Uebel: to stamp out, to put down;
> "   Volksstaemme: to exterminate, wipe out; 
> 
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    (='Ethnic groups','people')
> 
> We conclude, with respect to groups of human beings, 
> 'ausrotten' means 'to exterminate'.
> -------

No we don't Uwe, and your post I appreciate as I see that it root out
comes first, even in 1931!!!! 
>


Article 15648 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:15:45 GMT
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> 
> In the early 80s or late 70s, if memory serves, Faurisson wrote that the
> speech is legitimate.  He admits that Himmler said "Es gehoert zu den
> Dingen, die man leicht ausspricht. - 'Das juedische Volk wird
> ausgerottet', sagt ein jeder Parteigenosse, 'ganz klar, steht in unserem
> Programm, Ausschaltung der Juden, Ausrottung, machen wir.'" Translation:
> "This is one of those things that one can easily say. 'The Jewish people
> will be exterminated,' says every Party member, 'quite clear, it's in our
> program, elimination of the Jews, extermination, we're doing it.'"  What
> is Faurisson's explanation of this?  Himmler was engaging in "a bit of
> braggadocio."  (That's a direct quote, from memory;  if anyone wants the
> source, email me, I'll look it up.)
-----------------------

No, it means:

The Jewish people are being rooted-out, ..., clear, in our program,
elimination (my dicto gives about 6 more terms, but I'll concede for the
moment)  of the Jews, wir rooting them out..  

Let's see more of this great "proof", but, you won't do it, because that's
not a "Technique and Operation of the Exterminationists in Debate."

Tim McCarthy

landpost@clark.net


Article 15649 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Buchenwald/Weimar
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:44:49 GMT
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In article , ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Gordon McFee) wrote:

> In a previous article, landpost@clark.net () says:
> 
> >In article <33heqe$k4l@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny
Keren) wrote:
> >
> >>  wrote:
> >> 
> >> # The "young idealists" here in alt.revisionism denied vehemently that any
> >> # such changes were occurring, denied any knowledge of the post war use of
> >> # these camps in the SOZ, so I posted this article and another post
in order
> >> # to provide at least a start for them. 
> >> 
> >> You really don't get it, do you?
> >> 
> >> No one denied anything. People asked you to answer a simple question,
> >> which no "revisionist" is capable of answering: why do you accept
> >> tales of atrocities only when these are anti-German atrocities,
> >> and reject every tale of atrocities committed by Germans?
> >> 
> >> Now, do you finally understand what was asked of you?
> >> 
> >> Sheesh.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -Danny Keren.
> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >A Reply to
> >Danny "Deir Yassin" Keren
> >
> >I don't think I've ever replied to one of your posts before. Maybe you're
> >referring to someone else. However, I do deny atrocity stories allegedly
> >committed by Germans, and then I check them out for myself. Here then is
> >my reason:
> >
> >Weil die deutschen Soldaten ritterlich kaempften.
> >
> Apart from your racist beginning, your ending is equally stupid.  It may
> be that the German soldiers fought chivalrously, but the SS in the
> extermination camps didn't.  And the German army did itself no honour by
> accepting the SS accompanying it into Poland and elsewhere in order to
> carry out "political" tasks.  Read the words of Generalfeldmarscall
> Wilhelm Keitel on the subject, and tell us more about how "ritterlich" the
> German army fought.  Does Nacht und Nebel ring a bell?
> --
> Gordon McFee ai292
> 
> I'll write no line before its time!

---------------------------------------------
McFee,

1. See my earlier post about who is racist in this society of ours. 

2. Why don't you post Keitel's remarks, if:
   a: they are in German, your English comments and translation welcome
of          course
   b: You post more than a convenient sentence or paragraph
   c: If you pull the text from the IMT volumes or another trial, say so

3. Noch ein mal. Die deutschen Soldaten und SS ritterlich kaempften.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15650 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten/History
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:55:53 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article <33rqcd$h54@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
> Irving Hexham  wrote:
> >Now I have no doubt that Himmler and Co. meant to say
> >exterminate. But, doubt has/is being raised by various
> >revisionist writers. Therefore, because this is a key argument,
> >it needs to be shown far more clearly than anything I've seen so
> >far,  notwithstanding some helpful postings, that aussrotten
> >meant and was intended to mean exterminate.
> 
>     Well, that is usually done by showing the extermination.  For 
> example, the Einsatzgruppen reports showing hundreds of thousands of Jews 
> killed.  Even Greg Raven of the IHR has apparently admitted that the 
> reports are not forgeries.  He merely says that the Jews were killed 
> because they were partisans or suspected of being partisans or might 
> potentially help the partisans or something like that.  (A 
> self-fulfilling prophecy, perhaps.)  He says this is in no way a plan or 
> policy to kill Jews.
> 
>     And when you show more killing, they say either all the witnesses are 
> lying, or that the episode is anecdotal - show documentary evidence that 
> there was a plan or policy to kill Jews.  Whereupon one produces things 
> such as the Himmler Posnan speech.  Whereupon the revisionists say either 
> it's a forgery, or "ausrotten" means "uprooting", and the argument goes 
> in circles again....
> 
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.

-----------------------------------------------------

1. Why don't you post a report from the Einsatzgruppen providing that:

  a. you provide the German text to go along with your "translation"
  b. you post more than a paragraph or sentence 
  c. you tell us where you got it, i.e.: IMT Volume # ... ....

2. The reason you know nothing about the bloody partisan war in WW II east
Europe is:

  a. the establishment "historians" somehow never got around to writing
about it in all these years

3. The Himmler Posnan speech looks to have nothing to support your claims.
For example, if the plan to "gas" Jews was so secret that there exists no
paper trail and that it was done "with winks and nods", what is Himmler
doing yelling about it in Posnan??


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15651 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:57:22 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
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In article <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>, mattk@netnews.usl.com
(Kaufman M.E.) wrote:

> Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> : After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
> 
> Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
> status was still under debate.
> And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
> these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
> in the posting.
> : existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
> : concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
> : up on us revisionists?
> :         Ross Vicksell
> 
> Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
> of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.
> 
> Matt
> --
> It is, indisputably,|copyright 1994, mattk@summit.novell.com. All rights
> a fact.             |reserved. Permission for reproduction by USENET and like
>                     |free facilities explicitly allowed. No other reproduction
>                     |rights are granted or implied.


----------------------------------

Why aren't they hunting down Jewish "vermin" also??

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15652 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 31 Aug 1994 02:01:38 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
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In article <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>, mattk@netnews.usl.com
(Kaufman M.E.) wrote:

> Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> : After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
> 
> Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
> status was still under debate.
> And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
> these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
> in the posting.
> : existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
> : concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
> : up on us revisionists?
> :         Ross Vicksell
> 
> Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
> of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.
> 
> Matt
> --
> It is, indisputably,|copyright 1994, mattk@summit.novell.com. All rights
> a fact.             |reserved. Permission for reproduction by USENET and like
>                     |free facilities explicitly allowed. No other reproduction
>                     |rights are granted or implied.


----------------------------------

Why aren't they hunting down Jewish "vermin" also??

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15659 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 30 Aug 1994 22:51:28 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
	<33bcn7$3e9@hebron.connected.com>
	
	<33jh15$ruj@prime.mdata.fi>,
	<33v1in$n2i@golem.wcc.govt.nz>
	
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 04:12:26 GMT
Lines: 15


From: landpost@clark.net
>I've always wondered why Jews haven't developed a disgusting dialect, in
>the same relation as Yiddish is to German, with the English language.
	...
>But, please, don't try the old tricks about racist statements or
>anti-semitic sentiments.

No, wouldn't think of it, why would it possibly come up?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15663 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 31 Aug 1994 01:38:51 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	
	
	
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 04:46:39 GMT
Lines: 13


From: landpost@clark.net
>And, yes, I want the German, which of course, the holohoaxers won't
>provide, and if they do, just a small schnitt, that just happens to say
>what they like. 

Um, damned if they do, damned if they don't?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15665 of alt.revisionism:
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 31 Aug 1994 01:15:45 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
	<33ke4l$8m2@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	<1994Aug27.230042.957@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <33pk8j$7fg@prime.mdata.fi>
	
	
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 05:42:08 GMT
Lines: 36


From: landpost@clark.net
>The Jewish people are being rooted-out, ..., clear, in our program,
>elimination (my dicto gives about 6 more terms, but I'll concede for the
>moment)  of the Jews, wir rooting them out..  

What's great about these morons is how they think they're making some
great point on behalf of their whack-o views but manage to do just the
opposite.

Ok, let us say for a moment that Himmler was not saying
"exterminating" when he said "ausrotten", he just meant "rooting
out". Say you win this point entirely.

HAS IT EVER OCCURRED TO YOU IN THAT DISEASED MIND OF YOURS that
there's something wrong with politicians and generals getting up in
front of large crowds and announcing: WE ARE ROOTING OUT THE JEWS!

Let's try it with some other group: WE ARE ROOTING OUT THE CHRISTIANS!

Great, great stuff. So I assume if the President of the United States
or some US General were to get on CNN tomorrow and say WE ARE ROOTING
OUT THE MUSLIMS, well, hey, all in a day's work, nothing to complain
about...

You are one sick puppy, or just stupid. Take your pick.

Sometimes I wonder if these hatemongerers like Tim McCarthy aren't
plants by those they claim to be their worst nightmares. That would
explain a lot.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15713 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Learning German with landpost 2
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:01:13 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article , uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Uwe
Roessler) wrote:

> In another thread Mr landpost speaks about the motivation of his
> state of mind:
> 
> > 
> > Weil die deutschen Soldaten ritterlich kaempften.
> 
> later in this thread he confirms this motivation:
> 
> >3. Noch ein mal. Die deutschen Soldaten und SS ritterlich kaempften.
> 
> (Should read correctly, "Die deutschen Soldaten und SS kaempften ritterlich.")
> 

You are right, Uwe. However, I meant to say: Weil die deutschen Soldaten
und SS ritterlich kaempten. This is correct. 


> Here is another source, Mr landpost might find interesting enough
> to translate for the general audience. It's about occupation
> politics in the UdSSR, general strategic and economic objectives 
> in the Ukraine, and especially about some of these 'Ritter':
> 
> [Schreiben des Ruestungsinspekteurs Ukraine, Generalleutnant Hans
> Leykauf an den Chef des Wehrwirtschafts- und Ruestungsamtes im OKW,
> General d. Inf. Thomas, vom 2.12. 1941]
> 
> "Rue In Ukraine                                O.U.,den 2.Dezember 1941
> "_Inspekteur_                                  _Geheim_
> 
> "[..]
> 
> "c)Judenfrage
> 
 -------------------------------------------------------------

Giving it a quick read, it seems like what it says, nothing more, nothing less. 

While I read this over, add this to your little post:

1. Don't act like you pulled this out of an archive, Uwe, by only leaving
this as a reference:
 
>[Schreiben des Ruestungsinspekteurs Ukraine, Generalleutnant Hans
> Leykauf an den Chef des Wehrwirtschafts- und Ruestungsamtes im OKW,
> General d. Inf. Thomas, vom 2.12. 1941]
 
So, where did you get it? I assume it is from the records of one of the
"war crimes trials", but which one, IMT?? 

2. What are you trying to prove with this, that there was a war on the
eastern front, with partisans with many Jews among them?

3. What part of this do you find the most important, say a couple of
paragraphs? 


TM
landpost@clark.net


Article 15715 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Learning German with landpost 1 ( was: Ausrotten etc.
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:05:13 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 68
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> 
> As Mr landpost is apparently fluent in German, I propose a little test.
> In other threads, he is now asking for longer and German texts from the
> "Einsatzgruppen", I post here an original source - and he posts
> his translation. Nothing but mutual help in historic research -
> (After all, I'd have some difficulties to translate a complex text 
> into a foreign language, but will be able to check the validity of 
> his translation.).
> 
> An exact reference will be given later, it shouldn't be too easy.
> 
> [ '_abc_' emphasize in the text, '/3' == ss, '"a' == 'ae' etc. ]
> 
> "[..]                                                  3.11.1941
> "[..]
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

Uwe, maybe you could get a life. 

> "_Einsatzgruppe C:_
> 
> "[..]
> 
> "_B. Vollzugstaetigkeit._
> 
> "Was die eigentliche Exekutive anbelangt, so sind von den Kommandos
> "der Einsatzgruppe bisher etwa 80.000 Personen liquidiert worden.
> "Darunter befinden sich etwa 8000 Personen, denen aufgrund von Er-
> "mittlungen eine deutschfeindliche oder bolschewistische Taetigkeit
> "nachgewiesen werden konnte. Der verbleibende Rest ist aufgrund von
> "Vergeltungsmassnahmen erledigt worden.
> "Mehrere Vergeltungsmassnahmen wurden im Rahmen von Grossaktionen durch-
> "gefuehrt. Die groesste dieser Aktionen fand unmittelbar nach der Ein-
> "nahem Kiews statt; es wurden hierzu ausschliesslich Juden mit ihrer
> "gesamten Familie verwandt.
> "Die sich bei der Durchfuehrung einer solchen Grossaktion ergebenden
> "Schwierigkeiten - vor allem hinsichtlich der Erfassung - wurden in 
> "Kiew dadurch ueberwunden, dass durch Maueranschlag die juedische Be-
> "voelkerung zur Umsiedlung aufgefordert worden war. Obwohl man zunaechst
> "nur mit einer Beteiligung von etwa 5000 oder 6000 Juden gerechnet hatte,
> "fanden sich ueber 30.000 Juden ein, die infolge einer ueberaus ge-
> "schickten Organisation bis unmittelbar vor der Exekution noch an ihre
> "Umsiedlung glaubten.
> "Wenn auch bis jetzt auf diese Weise insgesamt etwa 75.000 Juden liquidiert
> "worden sind, so besteht doch schon heute Klarheit darueber, dass damit eine
> "Loesung des Judenproblems nicht moeglich sein wird. Es ist zwar gelungen,
> "vor allem in kleineren Staedten und auch in den Doerfern eine restlose
> "Bereinigung des Judenproblems herbeizufuehren; in groesseren Staedten
> "dagegen wird immer die Beobachtung gemacht, dass nach einer solchen 
> "Exekution zwar saemtliche Juden verschwunden sind, kehrt aber alsdann 
> "nach einer bestimmten Frist ein Kommando nochmals zurueck, so wird im-
> "mer wieder eine Anzahl von Juden festgestellt, die ganz erheblich die
> "Zahl der exekutierten Juden uebersteigt.
> 
> [..]
> 
> May be, Mr landpost could as well give an "interpertation" of the 
> possible meaning of this source in his revisionist view.
> 
> u.roessler                                uroessl1@gwdg.de
>

Yeah, I'm sure all these numbers were reported correctly to the IMT or
whatever.Give me a breadk already!!!

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15716 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tim's German (was Re: The Fear and Misery)
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:07:46 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 29
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> [Jamie wrote:]
> 
> > Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> > 
> > This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> > doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> > two syllables...?)
> 
> landpost@clark.net wrote:
> 
> > Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 
> > 
> > das Plakat 
> > 
> > You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate
> 
> Oh, you meant "Plakat" (poster)?  Since you were talking about an exhibit
> in a museum, I thought you meant "Plakette" (plaque).


Yeah, name one museum with plaques on the wall?? I'm not reading your
E-mail, you little twirp, so don't bother sending more. Got it.


TM
landpost


Article 15717 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tim McCarthy's Grimm Dilemma
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:13:58 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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>  
> This from the guy who didn't know what the Grimm Brothers' dictionary was.
> 

Gee, and I thought studying the Holy Roman Empire, the Hansa, the Teutonic
Knights, etc. were important to learn about Germany. I knew I should have
started with fairy tails, that way I would be better equipped to deal with
holohoaxers and their fairy tails.

 
> This from the guy who insisted that "Reinigung" could not mean a cleansing,
> that it could only mean "laundromat."
>  
> I somehow think the original German would be lost on him.
> 

Yawn.

 
> Then again, maybe "you're" English translations would be too!
> 
> 
> The most telling, I think, is Tim McCarthy's ignorance of just who the 
> Grimm Brothers really were.  He had heard of the Fairy Tale collection 
> (though I think that its scholarly significance as a preservation of 
> German folk culture is lost on him as well), but had no idea of their 
> seminal work as philologists and linguists.  Rather than admit what an 
> ignoramus he is on German culture and language, he snips all reference to 
> this issue from all of his replies.
> 

see above.


> This, to me, demonstrates both Tim's inability to understand the history 
> or evolution of my grandfather's native tongue, and his fundamental 
> cowardice in being unwilling to deal with issues where he has been rather 
> definitively demonstrated as being wrong.
> 
> It also demonstrates that nothing Tim says about German usage should be
> taken the least bit seriously, since he clearly doesn't know a thing about
> it.  Even his _own_ dictionary examples prove him wrong (unless, of
> course, Jews are "Unkraut"--and if he _does_ consider Jews to be weeds, 
> that's rather telling in itself, isn't it?).
> 

We don't say: We have to weed out the bad apples from this group, or
similiar sentences?? Who cares what language your Gr.Dad spoke, you jerk>

> Yet another example of the "honesty" of self-styled "Holohoax
> Revisionists."
> 

Say what?

> >p.s. I'm too tired now to flame you properly. But, wait till next time,
> >you dweeb.
> 
> If you think this is all about who flames whom the most creatively or
> cruelly, Tim, you are sadly mistaken, and really ought to take your
> roadshow somewhere that such things matter (though I think the pros on
> alt.flame would probably make very short work of you).  No, it's about the
> truth, and it's about right and wrong, and you have already lost. 
> 
Yawn.

> 
> Quaking in fear that Fencepost will call me a "dweeb,"
> 
Shouldn't you be out cleaning shit from the barn or something? I mean, a
little shit kicker from S.Dakota who speaks house deutsch thinks he is
some literati!

TM
landpost


Article 15718 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Poles say: We have 1,000,000 Jews here now, not 5,000
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:16:45 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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To: Blarney Shtein

While looking for Sack's comments, I came across this from the Polish
Historical Society. Of course, you'll no doubt say that the Polish
Historical Society is "anti-semetic", therefore, they cannot be
considered. That, of course, is STEP #1.


In answer to Uzi Narkuss, a professional Jewish avenger who wants to
convoke an international tribunal to stage show trials of anti-Holocaust
historians, David Irving and Robert Faurisson, the Polish Historical
Society rebuffed his claim that only 5,000 Jews remain in Poland. After
WWII 750,000 Polish Jews immigrated to Palestine, and another 750,000 went
West, many to America. Still another 750,000 remained in Communist Poland,
where they soon monopolized most of the country's top jobs. 

Today, the Polish Historical attests, despite what Narkiss claims, Poland
is the home not of 5,000 but of 1 million Jews, a number that has escaped
Jewish headcounters in the west because after WW II Polish Jews decided
that they could greatly improve their lit if they took Slavic names. Such
Jews include Adam Michnik, Jacek Kurson and Artur Howzan, who are now
riding high in the present day Polish power structure.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


It could be, that I remember and quoted from this report, which I've
summarized above. I read Sack's book and article around the same time as
this article. So, Sack may not have said that 1,000,000 Jews are in
Poland, but I know he had something to say about it.


Article 15719 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten/History
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:23:55 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
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In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net wrote:
> 
> > (Michael P. Stein) wrote:
> > 
> > >     And when you show more killing, they say either all the witnesses are 
> > > lying, or that the episode is anecdotal - show documentary evidence that 
> > > there was a plan or policy to kill Jews.  Whereupon one produces things 
> > > such as the Himmler Posnan speech.  Whereupon the revisionists say either 
> > > it's a forgery, or "ausrotten" means "uprooting", and the argument goes 
> > > in circles again....
> > 
> > 3. The Himmler Posnan speech looks to have nothing to support your claims.
> > For example, if the plan to "gas" Jews was so secret that there exists no
> > paper trail and that it was done "with winks and nods", what is Himmler
> > doing yelling about it in Posnan??
> 
> Amazing.  Holocaust-deniers always insist that there's no proof that the
> Nazis intended to kill Jews.  Yet when they're given a tape recording of
> Himmler himself saying "we're going to exterminate all the Jews" (which is
> exactly what he said), they insist that _that's_ invalid, because he never
> would have said any such thing.
> 
> You can't have it both ways, landpost.
> 

That's not what he said. Let's see more.

> Himmler was "yelling" at a meeting of top SS officers.  Only a few thousand
> people were allowed in to hear what he said.
> 

Mike, that is not "winks and nods."

> Himmler never mentioned gassing, only extermination.
> 
Really, let's see it.

> Himmler specifically said that it was an unwritten, never to be written
> page of German history.
> 

Really, let's see it.

> Himmler was encouraging the SS officers to be strong, to hold fast even as
> they saw 100, or 500, or 1000 corpses lying side-by-side.  That was the
> topic for that part of his speech.  That's why he was talking about
> killing Jews.

Really, let's see it.
> 
> Make more sense to you now?

Really, let's see it.

> -- 
>  Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
>  I speak for no one but myself.


------------------

Mike,

Only a few thousand. Really? That is alot of people, Mike, and it is not a
satisfactory answer on your part. He also used that ausrotten word, which,
with no offense to fairy tale reader Jamie McCarthy, as you know, can mean
something else. Post some more of this great "proof", English or German,
although someone seems to have the German text.


Tim 
landpost@clark.net


Article 15720 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Buchenwald/Weimar
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:25:10 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References:   <33gang$i2s@herm  <3421bn$49n@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
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In article <3421bn$49n@agate.berkeley.edu>, schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> In article ,
> Gordon McFee  wrote to Tim "landpost" McCarthy:
> 
> >Do your own research, dimwit.  
> 
> I think that by calling Tim McCarthy a dimwit, you are insulting the other
> dimwits in the world.  The amount of intelligence it takes to be a dimwit
> is something to which McCarthy can only aspire in his dreams.
> 
> -- 
>                                 Richard Schultz
> 
> "It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
> truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"


-----------

Yawn.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15721 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:29:02 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References:    <3410ae$s67@access3.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <3410ae$s67@access3.digex.net>, mstein@access3.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
>   wrote:
> >Let's see more of this great "proof", but, you won't do it, because that's
> >not a "Technique and Operation of the Exterminationists in Debate."
> 
>     First paragraph of a letter from SS Capt. Bischoff, head of the
> Zentralbauleitung (Central Construction Mgt.) to Gen. Kammler on 29
> January 1943: 
> 
>     "Das Krematorium II wurde unter Einsatz aller verfu"gbaren Kra"fte
> trotz unsagbarer Schwierigkeiten und Frostwetter bei Tag- und Nachbetrieb
> bis auf bauliche Kleinigkeiten fertiggestellt.  Die O"fen wurden im
> Beisein des Herrn Oberingenieur Pru"fer der ausfu"hrenden Firma, Firma
> Topf u. So"hne, Erfurt, angefeuert und funtionieren [sic] tadellos.  Die
> Eisenbetondecke des Leichenkellers konnte infolge Frosteinwirkung noch
> nicht ausgeschalt werden.  Die [sic] is jedoch unbedeutend, da der
> Vergasungskeller hierfu"r benu"tzt werden kann." 
> 
>      "Through the use of all available resources, despite unspeakable
> difficulties and freezing weather by working day and night the Krematorium
> II was completed except for some small construction details.  The ovens
> were fired up in the presence of the Chief [or Senior] Engineer Pru"fer of
> the contractor firm, Topf and Sons, Erfurt, and work flawlessly.  Due to
> the effect of the cold, the construction supports for the reinforced
> concrete ceiling of the morgue could not yet be removed.  This is however
> unimportant, as the gassing cellar can be used in its place." 
> 
>     [Source of German text: Pressac, p. 432, photographic reproduction of 
> file copy signed by Untersturmfu"hrer Pollok.  Translation mine, with 
> thanks to Ulrich Roessler for the explanation of "ausschalen".]
> 
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.


-------------------------

Mike, 

This is step #3, which is to change the subject. Look, I want more of this
great "proof" from Posnan. 

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15722 of alt.revisionism:
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From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aussrotten
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:33:47 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In article , ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Gordon McFee) wrote:

> In a previous article, landpost@clark.net () says:
> 
> >
> >> Mr. Hexam, I may have been too short-tempered in my first post and I
> >> apologize for that.  Perhaps you have not followed the ausrotten thread
> >> since Herr Berg started it; I may have assumed too much.  With respect,
> >> you are confusing historical research with etymology.  The word ausrotten,
> >> since it entered the German language over 500 years ago, has always meant
> >> to exterminate, to destroy, etc.  To be precise, when applied to living
> >> things (Lebenswesen), it always means to end that life.  Thus, people
> >> equals "exterminate".  Plant life (Unkraut, which Mr McCarthy failed to
> >> realize means "weeds") equals "uproot" or "destroy".  The only time it
> >> does not mean to kill *literally* is when, in the figurative sense, one
> >> refers to "purging" a thought from your mind, and even there, it has a
> >> connotation of getting rid of it.
> >> -----------------------
> >
> >Gordy,
> >
> >
> >Yeah, I do and did realize it. What's your point?
> >
> Timmie, if you are too stupid to remember a thread that you helped start,
> and to realize that my post exposes you for the dumb little weasel you
> are, don't bother me; go seek help from your Nazi loser friends.
> --
> Gordon McFee ai292
> 
> I'll write no line before its time!


-----------
I didn't start this thread, this twit, it's been around longer than I
have, already. Up yours.


landpost@clark.net
TM


Article 15723 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, what's wrong with our alternative plan?
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:38:10 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article , choover@usd.edu (Christopher J
Hoover ) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net writes:
> 
> 
> >> Pick the topic. 
> 
> 
> >-------------------
> 
> >That little thing about Jews being sent to White Russia in a continous
> >stream under the Fuehrer's orders from virtually every Grossstadt in the
> >German realm would be a good start.
> 
> You mean, on all those trains from Bialystok to Treblinka [hint:  
> Treblinka is not _east_ of Bialystok] that you claim were taking Jews to 
> _Belarus_, that you're too much of a coward to talk about?
> 
> Curiouser and curiouser.
> 
> By all means, let's talk about them.  The ball, as they say, is in your 
> court, Compost.
> 
> I, for one, can't wait....
> 

You must have missed my reply, which was correct and nothing more has been
said about it. Ask one of the ADL'ers in training who archive this stuff
for a copy.Don't you have some cows to milk?

> 
> 
> Chris
> --
> Christopher J. Hoover    choover@usd.edu       University of South Dakota
> Disclaimer:  standard    It's *always* September, *somewhere* on the Net.


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net



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