The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

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Date: Sun, 01 Sep 1996 20:34:44 -0400
From: jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com>  <502sor$8lf@Vir.com> <505mrj$uii@Vir.com>  <199608311622.MAA29091@vixa.voyager.net> <3229C0C8.9C7@kaiwan.com>
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(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
alt.revisionism)

Jamie McCarthy wrote:

> And don't forget -- according to Greg Raven, this speech doesn't count
> as evidence for the Holocaust, because Himmler doesn't say anything
> about gas chambers!

ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> I don't deny there was a Holocaust,

Nonsense.  You define the Holocaust as the murder of six million Jews as
a central act of state by the Nazis during the Second World War, many in
gas chambers.  You deny the figure of six million, you deny that there
was a Nazi program, and you deny that there were any gas chambers.

You deny precisely what you define.  You deny the Holocaust.

How do I know how you define the term "Holocaust"?  You defined it for
us, in <2pi7nk$dqj@kaiwan.kaiwan.com>:

   For the purposes of this discussion, I am using a fairly generic
   definition of the word Holocaust, which is the murder of six
   million Jews as a central act of state by the Nazis during the
   Second World War, many in gas chambers.

How do I know what you deny?  You defined it for us, in
<320D09E3.69F4@kaiwan.com>:

   Revisionists DO say that there was no German program to
   exterminate Europe's Jews, that numerous claims of mass killings
   in "gas chambers" are false, and that the estimate of six million
   Jewish wartime dead is an irresponsible exaggeration.

Furthermore, you know all this.  Even if you'd "forgotten" what your own
beliefs were, Mr. Raven, you have been reminded many times in email. You
have failed to address your self-contradiction even once.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/deny-holocaust.01

> so it is immaterial whether or not
> this speech offers any proof.
> 
> The revisionist posotion deals not with the Holocaust per se, but with
> claims of mass extermination in Nazi gas chambers during the Holocaust.
> Because Himmler's speech does not mention homicidal gas chambers, it
> cannot be used as proof that the Nazis constructed and used homicidal
> gas chambers.

Was Himmler speaking of an extermination program?  Forget the gas
chambers for the moment.  Did Himmler speak of a program to exterminate,
to kill, the Jewish people?  Yes or no?

(We went over this many times in 1994, and Mr. Raven always weaseled out
of the question in one way or another, usually by becoming suddenly
silent.  He will of course do so again, because if he ever admits that
the Nazi extermination program can be discussed separately from the
means of carrying out that program, he has lost.)

Posted/emailed.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
 jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
 Hate mail will be posted.



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