From Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 23 08:09:36 PST 1996 Article: 24641 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk From: "C:WINSOCKKA9QSPOOLMAIL"
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: 1) MATTOGNO ARTICLE [THAT MCVAY CAN'T ANSWER] Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 02:57:20 GMT Organization: None Lines: 143 Message-ID: <email@example.com> Reply-To: Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk X-Broken-Date: Friday, Feb 23, 1996 02.57.20 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk DEPORTATION AND EXTERMINATION OF THE HUNGARIAN JEWS by Carlo Mattogno 1) The New Thesis of Jean-Claude Pressac: In the section headed The Extermination of Hungarian Jews in our study, Auschwitz: The End of a Legend (pp. 31-32), we demonstrated that the Pressac thesis maintaining mass extermination of Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz is historically unfounded based upon two arguments: 1) The material impossibility of carrying out actual cadaver- cremations of such alleged masses of homicidally gassed persons. and: 2) The Allied aerial reconnaissance photographs of 31 May 1944 which do not reveal any extermination activity. Our reasoning must have impressed Pressac (1) because now he presents a radical revision of his thesis on pages 169 to 173 of Le macchine dello sterminio,(2) which does not purport to be a revised edition, but merely that it is supposed to be an Italian language translation of his original French language book, Les Crmatoires d'Auschwitz: La machinerie du meuertre de masse. But it IS different. Realizing the material impossibility of an extermination of 292,000 Hungarian Jews, as he had previously maintained, Pressac now has sought to salvage the extermination principle by reducing the number of Jews deported to Auschwitz from Hungary. In this regard, he affirms as follows: The reports of Lieutenant Colonel Laszlo Ferenczy of the Hungarian Police indicate that from 15 May to 8 July 1944, 148 convoys containing 483,000 (3) Jews were deported from Hungary with an average of 3,000 persons per convoy. The scheduled destination: Auschwitz, according to a telegram of 24 April to German diplomat Edmund Veesenmayer. Routinely mentioned as destinations of the Hungarian Jews: labor camps situated within the territory of the Reich and subject to the authority of the Reichsfhrer SS (according to Ritter); Upper Silesia, and the General Gouvernement (according to Eberhard von Thadden). We would like to point out that the reports of Lieutenant Colonel Laszlo Ferenczy refer to deportation of 434,351 Jews in 147 trains, (4) not of 438,000 in 148 trains. Then Pressac outlines the following status quaestionis [position]: In the first Calendar of Auschwitz which Danuta Czech published in 1964, are recorded 91 convoys from Hungary which had reached Auschwitz between 2 May and 18 October 1944 (limit dates). It was estimated then that the 480,000 (5) deportees indicated by Ferenczy had actually arrived at Auschwitz, but that the number of convoys was less, and their load greater (4,800 per train). The Auschwitz Museum prefers not to give an explanation as to the gap between the two durations of deportations of approximately two months according to Ferenczy, compared to four months claimed by them [the Auschwitz Museum]. Since only about 28,000 Jews, both men and women, were registered at Auschwitz, the other 410,000 were considered homicidally gassed; signifying that 94% of the deportees were liquidated upon arrival, and that only 6% were selected as capable for work (percentages offered by researcher G. Wellers in 1983). For 25 years these figures have been spread around the world and accepted as certainties. In the 2nd Kalendarium by Danuta Czech published by Rohwolt in 1989, no longer is there any more mention of 53 Hungarian convoys arriving at Auschwitz between 2 May and 11 July 1944. About 40 convoys have disappeared. This "evaporation" explains with a misconception, the so-called "selection" among the Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz, which is revealed from documents discovered in the Arolsen Center. The reception of a convoy at Birkenau proceeded as follows: the unloading of arrivees at the "ramp"; the separation into two columns, one of women and children; the other of men. Selection was carried out by one or two SS medical doctors functioning near the center of the platform after the two columns were divided into four columns: two of women and children, and two of men. Those unable to work went ahead in function of availability toward Crematories II, III, or V, and [were] liquidated. The able men and women were either immediately registered and interned in Auschwitz (especially the men); or transferred as soon as possible to other camps of the Reich without being registered; or finally-for the men and the women- thrust into the camp sectors of Birkenau, the BIII (Durchgangslager) and the BIIc (camp of the Hungarian Jews); always without being registered. Whenever the Auschwitz work office needed manpower, or received a request from the outside, the select registered workers were directed to the work Kommandos of the camp or elsewhere, from the Jews of BIII and BIIc. It is these internal and external transfers that took place after 11 July (the end of deportations of Hungarians to Auschwitz), which caused the erroneous belief that because of registration, the trains were still arriving from Hungary. (pp. 170, 171). 2) The Pressac Basis for his New Thesis: In the first German edition of the Auschwitz Kalendarium (6) there are 91 convoys of Jews coming from Hungary between 2 May and 18 October 1944, which resulted in a total registration of 29,159 people. (7) As far as the destiny of the non-registered people, the Kalendarium invariably states: "Die Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: 3) MATTOGNO ARTICLE [THAT MVAY CAN'T ANSWER] Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 03:02:06 GMT Organization: None Lines: 153 Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: Jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk X-Broken-Date: Friday, Feb 23, 1996 03.02.06 X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7 X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk 6) Number of Hungarian Jews who arrived at Auschwitz in May 1944. The report of Lieutenant Colonel Laszlo Ferenczy dated 29 May 1944 states that from the beginning of the deportation until midnight on 28 May 1944, there were 184,049 Jews deported to Auschwitz from Hungary in 58 trains. (29) As the first convoys had left on 15 May, the deportation took place within fourteen days. If we apply Pressac's "rule", out of 184,049 deportees, approximately 122,700 persons were unable to work, and as such were homicidally gassed. Since the first convoys which had left on 15 May arrived at Auschwitz on 17 May, (30) and if the duration of the journey was two days, then 184,049 deported Hungarian Jews arrived at Auschwitz within a period of 14 days, between 17 May and 30 May. The average number of alleged homicidally gassed people would then be (122,700 / 14 =) 8,764 per day. If, on the contrary, the last deportations arrived at Auschwitz on 31 May, the average number of presumed homicidally gassed persons, would be 8,180 per day. 7) The Aerial Reconnaissance Photographs of 31 May 1944: Jean-Claude Pressac bases his case on three presuppositions: a) On 30 May, 1944, only one convoy of Hungarian Jews arrived at Birkenau (1,000 able and 2,000 unable to work). On 31 May, two convoys arrived (2,000 able and 4,000 unable to work). b) The photographs taken on 31 May show only six or seven cars on the ramp, so the above-mentioned convoys had not yet arrived. c) Aerial reconnaissance photographs show that a cremation is taking place in one of the three pits measuring 3.5 by 15 meters in the Crematory V courtyard. Let's analyze these presuppositions, one at a time: a) The existing documents allow us to trace the deportation of the Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz at the end of May 1944, according to the following table: DATE.......................................... 25 May 1944 Number of Deportees.........................138,870 (31) Total Number of Trains................................44 Partial Number of Deportees........................./ Average Daily Number of Deportees............/ Partial Number of Trains................................/ DATE........................................... 28 May 1944 Number of Deportees..........................184,049 (32) Total Number of Trains.................................58 Partial Number of Deportees................45,179 Average Daily Number of Deportees...15,060 Partial Number of Trains..............................14 DATE........................................... 31 May 1944 Number of Deportees..........................217,236 (33) Total Number of Trains.................................69 Partial Number of Deportees................33,187 Average Daily Number of Deportees...11,062 Partial Number of Trains...............................11 As for the Hungarian Jews who arrived at Auschwitz on 31 May 1944, there are two possibilities: 1) If the journey lasted from one to three days, on 31 May, three or four convoys arrived at Auschwitz which had departed on May 28, 29, or 30; so the number of deportees is 9,051 (34) (three convoys) or 12,068 (35) (four convoys). 2) If the journey lasted from four to six days (less probable hypothesis), on 31 May, four or five convoys arrived, and they had departed on the 26th, 27th or 28th; so the number of the deportees calculates to 12,908 (36) (four convoys) or 16,135 (37) (five convoys). As to the 29th, 30th, and 31st of May, a total of eleven convoys had left Hungary; three on one day, and four on the other two days. With the hypothesis that the duration of the journey has been one or three days, if on 31 May, three convoys arrived (9,051 deportees); on 30 May, four arrived (12,908 deportees), and vice-versa. In the hypothesis that the journey lasted more than three days, the number of deportee arrivals on 30 May and on 31 May would be much bigger. In conclusion, either on 30 May approximately 12,900 deportees arrived and on 31 May approximately 9,050 arrived; or on 30 May approximately 9,050 deportees arrived and on 31 May approximately 12,900 arrived. b) After clearing this point, we go to Pressac's second presupposition. He states that the two aerial photographs of 31 May 1944 were taken at around 9 to 10 A.M., which is very probable because the shadows of the chimneys of the crematories face North-West with a 315 degree angle. Also the presence of seven cars on the Birkenau ramp is an exact observation (but on the old ramp there are at least eight trains, and nine or ten trains in the Auschwitz station). But all this does not rule out that the convoys had arrived during the night or early in the morning, and that they had already left. Let's remember that according to Lieutenant Colonel Ferenczy, the convoys will continue their journey just after assignment selection at the Birkenau ramp. That problem is nevertheless not essential. The really serious problems are the following: 1) How would it have been technically possible to homicidally gas and cremate 122,700 people in not more than fifteen days in facilities that could have cremated no more than a maximum of (1,400 * 15 =) 21,000 cadavers? 2) How could it have been technically possible to homicidally gas and cremate no less than (9,050 * 2/3 =) 6,000 people on about the 30th of May 1944 with facilities which in one day could just cremate a maximum of 1,400 cadavers? 3) Why in the aerial photographs of 31 May 1944, is there no trace of cremation of the remaining (6,000 - 1,400 =) 4,600 cadavers? 4) If the story of extermination were true, the Birkenau facilities should have had a cremation capacity not less than 10,000 cadavers per day (two-thirds of the deportees arrived at Auschwitz with convoys which had left Hungary on 26, 27, and 28 May, 1944). So in the aerial photographs of 31 May, the alleged "cremation pits" ought to be visible, with an area of approximately 2,800 square meters (calculated according to the declaration by Filip Mller). But there is no trace of them at all! The small column of smoke rising from the courtyard near Crematory V which appears in the aerial photographs of May 31, 1944 is consistent with outside trash incineration in an open-air container where lower level combustion air is able to enter; we know of no aerial photographic evidence of pit incineration, where burning would have been very slow because of poor air circulation. And this brings us to Jean-Claude Pressac's last presupposition: the presence, in those photographs, of three "cremation pits" measuring 3.5 15 meters, and of one such pit in which a cremation is taking place. Where did Pressac see these? We wait with confidence that he publish these two pictures. But why did he not present them in his book Le macchine dello sterminio? And with the exact indication of: three "cremation pits" of 52.5 square meters each; approximately 100 cubic meters of soil extracted from pits and piled up next to each pit on an area at least equal to that of these alleged pits; 250 to 500 tons of wood piled up as cadaver cremation fuel for the cremation of the cadavers of the alleged homicidally gassed from 31 May; piles equal to approximately 550 to 1,100 cubic meters, and of an area approximately 220 to 440 square meters (assuming the height of a pile of 2.5 meters); the exact location of a "cremation pit" with smoke; the exact location of where there is a "cremation pit" of 30 square meters, and another one of 20 square meters in the area of Bunker 2. It is clear that we are challenging Jean-Claude Pressac. -- Jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain. Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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