The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/l/lupton.geoff/1996/lupton.0796


From bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jul  3 11:41:53 PDT 1996
Article: 55421 of can.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!oleane!jussieu.fr!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bj695
From: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: The Heritage (Nazi) Front
Date: 2 Jul 1996 18:04:42 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 22
Sender: bj695@freenet6.carleton.ca (Geoff Lupton)
Message-ID: <4rbobq$n3o@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <113304Z26061996@anon.penet.fi> <4r25h0$m5h@News.Dal.Ca> <4r4uer$1b64@news.gate.net> <958473$999@xl.ca> <4rbi0k$mrk@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Reply-To: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet6.carleton.ca


Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) writes:
> In article <958473$999@xl.ca>, dhu@xl.ca (D.Hu) wrote:
> 
>>	I'm sure you would like to register the Canadian Government as
>>a hate group since it was the Government that paid for What'shisface to start
>>up the Heritage Front...
> 
> And your evidence for this can be found where?

CSIS denials notwithstanding, the fact remains that Grant Bristow was a
key player in the founding stages of the HF. In fact, he was the catalyst
behind the original core of people who broke away from Don Andrews and the
NPC to start the HF. In this sense, he was indeed a co-founder of the HF.
 
> Wolfgang Droege started the Heritage Front - you can learn

True, but hardly all by himself. Grant Bristow as there from day one, with
the collusion of CSIS and your tax dollars. That's "democracy" for ya...





From bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Wed Jul  3 11:41:54 PDT 1996
Article: 55504 of can.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!hookup!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bj695
From: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: The Heritage (Nazi) Front
Date: 2 Jul 1996 19:46:06 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 22
Sender: bj695@freenet6.carleton.ca (Geoff Lupton)
Message-ID: <4rbu9u$p8e@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <113304Z26061996@anon.penet.fi> <4r25h0$m5h@News.Dal.Ca> <4r4uer$1b64@news.gate.net> <958473$999@xl.ca> <4rbi0k$mrk@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4rbobq$n3o@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rbp65$nf5@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet6.carleton.ca


John Baglow (ai433@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Geoffy! You're back! Another itch I can scratch!

Hey John! How ya doin'? Long time, no see. Well, I never really went away
per se...just decided not to waste any more of my time in defense of
futile causes and lame-duck organisations whose key purpose seems to be to
distract concerned citizens with peripheral issues to obscure real
problems that matter to working people. Thats's where I am at now, John.
 
> So what is your argument--that nazism is funded by the Canadian
> government? From your point of view, you should be pleased....

No, I don't believe for a sceond that the Canadian gov't supports
"nazism". However, I would suggest that at least some federal officials
knew what Bristow was up to and colluded with him at public expense. From
any point of view, this is not pleasing. As stated above, Bristow's role
was to create, and then destroy, an organisation whose only purpose was to
distract people from facing issues that matter. A convenient diversion
tactic often used by capitalists, no? Surely we can agree on this, at least.




From bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jul  8 09:34:10 PDT 1996
Article: 56459 of can.politics
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From: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: THE SECRECY AND GREED OF BIG LABOUR LEADERS
Date: 7 Jul 1996 06:54:40 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 20
Sender: bj695@freenet3.carleton.ca (Geoff Lupton)
Message-ID: <4rnmvg$sli@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <4rmh33$cmq@news.interlog.com> <4rmsig$k8b@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca


John Baglow (ai433@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> More crap from Skorpios. The corporations and the banks are the ones
> effectively being subsidized by the long-suffering Canadian worker. Some
> of those corporate freeloaders don't pay any tax at all; others pay very
> little. Tax shelters, billions of dollars of tax deferrals, virtually
> anything being declarable as a "loss" for tax purposes, plus complaisant
> governments acting as little more than corporate agents--life is rosy in
> these hard times for the million-dollar CEOs and the outfits they run.

What is particulary egregious about this situation is the usual glowing
media reports about *increasing* bank profits... unearned income earned at
the very time that working people and either being "downsized", laid off
or having their hours/wages/benefits curtailed. Thus, while one segement
of the population (the working majority) suffers in decline, the new
capitalist class crows about a "jobless recovery". Welcome to the 90s...
 
Geoff Lupton




From bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jul  8 09:34:11 PDT 1996
Article: 56461 of can.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bj695
From: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: THE SECRECY AND GREED OF BIG LABOUR LEADERS
Date: 7 Jul 1996 07:07:31 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 37
Sender: bj695@freenet3.carleton.ca (Geoff Lupton)
Message-ID: <4rnnnj$st9@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <4r612p$a2v@news.interlog.com> <4r6b5g$3tt@sanjuan.islandnet.com> <4rldv1$mvh@news.sentex.net> <4rm9nv$dto@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rmbgk$eg0@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rmt2r$kes@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.carleton.ca


John Baglow (ai433@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Get serious. There are scores of corporations which pay no tax at all. I
> sure as hell pay more than 0% income tax. As for the banks, they are
> experiencing mega-profits unparalleled in our history--billions of dollars
> of clear profit at the expense of those paying more and more "service
> charges" for the privilege of letting these pinstripers play with their
> money. No I haven't looked at a recent annual report from a bank; but the
> very fact that finance capital is doing so staggeringly well compared to
> workers in Canada should tell you something. And I would doubt that any
> bank is paying the same rate of income tax as I pay on these billions of
> dollars.

Quite the paradox, isn't it? While banks continue to expand their profit
margin, the public they purport to serve are struggling to survive and,
when they can no longer afford to make their usury payments ( usually
through no fault of their own), these same financial institutions show no
hesitation in repossessing and liquidating those remaining assets that
working people still hope to call their own. That such rapacious
practices are condoned by governments that know of, and are largely
responsible for, the prevaling economic climate, it is not difficult to
ascertain what forces really call the shots in our vaunted "democracy".
 
> Canada has an even lower rate of corporate tax than the US. It has no
> wealth tax--even the US has that. We are so backward in this respect that
> it is frightening. Working people are worse off in Canada than they have
> been for decades, and yet our wealth continues to grow. Who has it? It
> sure as hell isn't labour leaders!

The old middle class is on the verge of socio-economic extinction, as is
the traditional working class. The new global economy, as defined and
enforced by the international capitalist elite, envisages two new classes:
the financial-technological ruling oligarchy, and the wage-slave service
sector. It's not too hard to see who will benefit from the new order, is it?

Geoff Lupton



From bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jul  8 09:34:12 PDT 1996
Article: 56668 of can.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bj695
From: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: THE SECRECY AND GREED OF BIG LABOUR LEADERS
Date: 8 Jul 1996 06:09:27 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 13
Sender: bj695@freenet2.carleton.ca (Geoff Lupton)
Message-ID: <4rq8mn$q1h@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <4rmh33$cmq@news.interlog.com> <31DFB4EB.6629@interlog.com> <4rpemg$hd2@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.carleton.ca


John Baglow (ai433@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> No, only their fair share. We have a lower rate of corporate tax than the
> US, no wealth tax, humongous tax deferrals, loopholes a mile wide....Tens
> of thousands of corporations pay no tax at all. And while you're at it,
> why not quit the name-calling, you crypto-fascist asshole?

Ad homimen attacks are a symptom of defeatism and desperation. Nobody is
well-served by resorting to such measures, least of all the readers. That
being said, an impartial observer would have to agree with John Baglow's
critique of the current tax system, which is far from fair or equitable.
 
Geoff Lupton


From bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Jul  8 09:34:13 PDT 1996
Article: 56669 of can.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!bj695
From: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: THE SECRECY AND GREED OF BIG LABOUR LEADERS
Date: 8 Jul 1996 06:03:31 GMT
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
Lines: 24
Sender: bj695@freenet2.carleton.ca (Geoff Lupton)
Message-ID: <4rq8bj$psr@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
References: <4r612p$a2v@news.interlog.com> <4r6b5g$3tt@sanjuan.islandnet.com> <4rldv1$mvh@news.sentex.net> <4rm9nv$dto@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rmbgk$eg0@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rmt2r$kes@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rnnnj$st9@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4rpe8k$h6h@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Reply-To: bj695@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Geoff Lupton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.carleton.ca


John Baglow (ai433@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> This is scary--the third post in a row from Geoff Lupton that I agree
> with! Better not tell Georges Skorpios, or he'll be confirmed in his
> opinion that fascism and Marxism are the same. :)

Haha. I thought you might come around sooner or later, John :). Seriously,
though, I have always been opposed to capitalism, especially in its new
and improved globalised form. So it is really not surprising that you and
I would agree in this regard, other peripheral issues from the past
notwithstanding. Your critiques of the status quo are very well taken.
 
> The important thing to realize about bank profits, as Lupton notes, is
> that they are unearned income. That is, banks do not create wealth, any
> more than casinos do. They merely siphon it off. The profits are in fact
> created by workers. 

Exactly. We are in full agreement on this point, John. However, I would
extend this judgement to the entire financial sector to include stock
exchange speculation as well. All income realised in this fashion is
unearned and parasitical in nature. You are, of course, also correct that 
real profits are created by the workers, of which their share are "wages".

Geoff Lupton



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